The Joe Rogan Experience - #2332 - Oz Pearlman

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Oz Pearlman is an entertainer, mentalist, and endurance runner. www.ozpearlman.com Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $300 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Minimum minus 500 odds required. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 6/22/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Oh, yep. Surreal. Dude, you've only been here for 20 minutes, you already freaked me out. Just freaked out. I know, I'm freaked out by the fact that you're the first guy that's ever come here that ran a marathon before you got here.

You know, wanted to clear my mind. It's a big day. How long did it take you to run it? You gotta check online. I don't know. I think it was like three hours, 25 minutes, 3.30, something like that. Wow, that's a good time for a casual... Went kind of southeast, thunderstorming in Austin, Texas, and then looped around, went

back, got some work done. I always do phone calls while I'm running How often do you run you said you ran 27 miles this morning? I think so. I mean, I don't know I just I turned around I got it done. I need to get ready for this shower But yeah, is that a normal thing for you to do very normal Wow. Yeah, that's crazy That's a lot of distance man You know I there was like a sweet spot preaving as many kids and more family constraints

and work and now life is busy, but where I do 20 miles every day. That's crazy. Yeah. Like what's the longest you've run? 153 miles. Wow, how long did it take you to do that? 33 hours, Spartathlon in Greece, epic, epic.

It's in Greece? Oh, it's crazy, man. You run from Athens to Sparta. This race is amazing. You ever seen the movie 300 with Gerard Butler? Sure. So that's the story. A couple of crazy dudes in the 80s decided

that they're gonna recreate where he ran, Phidipides, to deliver the message. Cause in that movie, you remember 300 Spartans defended against the Persian masses, and they frame it as the difference between us having civilization and not. Had those 300 guys not died while they assembled an army and he delivered that message to King Leonidas,

so when you finish this race, if you finish, it's one of the hardest races in the world. Like there's Badwater, you know Goggins, mutual buddy of ours, but there's races they say are the hardest, this one kicked my butt. First year I went- Is it because of the elevation? What is it?

It's because Europe does not believe in ice. So there's nothing cold for the first 50 miles. You're hot and then the cutoffs are much stricter. So at 50 miles, you have to be done. You got to fact check this, but nine or 10 hours. So you have to finish 153 miles in under 36 hours. You need to be running at all times. You can't walk for two hours and start throwing up.

I was puking for eight hours straight the first time I did it. Still excuses, this is me just bitching. I should have finished that year. I wasn't mentally tough, but 100% that year, I just didn't have it mentally. And the next year I came back ready to die. I was like, I'm gonna finish this race.

Yeah, there was a guy in the middle of the night, I won't kid you, who looked at me and he says to me there it is He goes to me with like crazy eyes and I've already given up in my mind You know, you know, you know, like they call it DNFing did not finish right in ultras I already wrote the speech of like I'm gonna tell my friends I learned from this, you know all that all that stuff of like I already gave up in my mind and I saw this guy At my I don't know 72 72, middle of the night, who looks at me with these crazy eyes.

I'll never forget his looks, crazy eyes, like that but a hundred times more. And goes, you're gonna give up? He goes, if you can't run, you walk. You can't walk, you crawl. You never ever. And I was like, yo man, this guy needs to chill out right now because I've already quit in my mind.

But I channeled that guy when I came back the next year and it was that it was I'm going to the hospital And you're not putting IV I'm gonna finish this race and I came back the next year mentally like there's no way I'm not finishing. Did you do anything different in preparation? Listen it's that is all mental. It's all mental anyone who tells you otherwise physicals meaningless at that point physicals meaningless in most points To be honest, there were guys who I saw when I quit, it was 2 a.m. who were slower than me, they were older than me, every objective measure, I should have beat them, but they mentally finished.

The next morning, I got a night's sleep, woke up, watched them, ate lunch, and saw them finish. I was crying. I couldn't believe the emotions of this guy finished who was two hours behind me when I quit. And I learned that day It's mental 100% the mindset is when you get there, you know if you're finishing at the start So did it haunt you that you didn't finish? Oh haunted me every day. That crazy haunted

Like what you did was really hard, but you know, that's bullshit hard. It was I should have finished How far did you get? I got halfway. So that's pretty hard No, I got five miles this I quit when hard. No, I got swept. 75 miles? This, I quit when it was convenient because I got to an aid station and I'm like, oh, you know, I got 30 minutes on the, I already decided in my mind I was quitting. Oh. But hold on, I got to pause because I walked in here and I told you, before we start, I have something for you.

Right. Right? People always say, can I read minds? I can't read minds. I read people. Okay. This envelope, if they can't see it and they're listening, your logo, sealed. Right. This is your future. My future?

This is your future. I'm not psychic, I'm not supernatural, but I assure you, I want you to hold this from now until the end of the episode. Okay. That's when we open it. I don't even know if I want to know my future. No, no, this is all good stuff. Live to 120. Joe's going to be a two-term president. You know, you know. Shut the fuck up. That's not good I don't want that job you take it before we even start and at the end we open it So nobody skips this episode you buckle up for the ending. I'm here People just fast-forward don't fast-forward. Don't miss all the good stuff in the middle the quitters quitters The people who did not finish Spartathlon That's so that's insanely impressive though that you run that much.

When did you start doing this? My sister ran a marathon. Shout out to my older sister and there's a little bit of sibling rivalry. She's eight years older. I have twin sisters. And do you remember when marathoning became like commonplace? Before you say anything, I have to shout out to my sister because she got upset that I didn't shout her out before because she ran Burt Kreischer's 5K.

She's like, I can't believe you didn't shout me out. Sorry, sweetie. Well played. Well played Yeah, she's the best they all are right So so my sister ran it and and everyone at a certain point marathoning became like a thing Do you remember when Oprah ran one and then everyone's like I'm running a marathon. I didn't pay attention Yeah, but there was like a moment where the zeitgeist everyone started running marathathons. This was before that. I believe you. Yeah. But I wasn't tuned into that frequency. I was, when my sister said she's running 26.2 miles, if she had told me, this is not that she's not fit, she was like a collegiate D1 athlete, swimmer, I'm like, if she had said I'm going to the moon, it would have been equal of like, what do you mean

you're running a marathon? And so when she did it, I immediately that day signed up for a marathon just to be like, no, screw that. I'm not, I'm not not doing this. Right. And I was working on Wall Street. I was kind of getting fat and lazy, happy hours. And I go, this is all there is. Like, I'm just going to keep, I'm making money. Don't get me wrong.

I'm blessed, but I got, I got to have something that fires me up. That's my instinct. And so I signed up for a marathon. What year was this? 2004. Okay. And then I did one Philly marathon, you know, the rocky the whole thing and at mile 23 I start I stop and I'm like crying. Again. This is a common theme I've cried like twice in my life my wife will ask and say but I was wrecked. I was gonna quit

I see two dudes walking because I'm going decently fast at this point. I've trained terribly. I see two dudes walking about 100 yards ahead of me. And I go, misery loves company. I'm gonna walk up and I'm gonna catch them. But they're walking the same speed as me. So I decide, screw it. I'm gonna run to them. I run, I get about halfway there.

Do you know what they do? They looked at each other and they started running. And I literally screamed at them. I go, fuck you. Like, and I got fired up. And I literally screamed at them, I go, fuck you! And I got fired up and I learned that anger is a great incentive. It's like something to fire up. And I got so pissed off that my blood pressure, I ran the rest of the race. You know Goggins takes all of his haters comments and he records them and then plays it back to him while he runs?

Oh, I know David well. I've known David going on like 15 years, man. Before Goggins became Goggins, I've seen the whole come up. How'd you meet him? So we trained for ultra marathons together. He used to live in New York City. Oh, wow. And we'd go out there and he's shirtless. And this is before now, man, he can't go anywhere.

He's just, it's like next level. He still runs on the street. He runs, but man, he's like, that's such a fame. That's, you know, we've talked about, but it's, he's, I mean, he's inspired next level. He still runs on the street. He runs but man he's he's like that's such a fame That's you know, we've talked about but it's he's he's I mean, he's inspired countless millions Oh for sure, but you see yeah, I don't know what your version is, but like somebody sees me I just get like oh, hey, love what you do. That's it. You know, maybe a selfie. That's right Occasionally some drunk assholes like read my mind right now I'll do it. You don't wanna leave somebody behind.

But his is, someone comes up and you have to, you changed my life, like I didn't kill myself or my brother, like that's a religious level fervor. Yeah, no, for sure. I've been around him when I've seen it happen. Yeah, he runs on the street. He was running on the street in Vegas, my wife, it was in the car, she rolled down the window

and yelled out, stay hard! Second time he's ever heard that, right? Who's gonna carry the boats? That's all he hears all day long is people yelling, stay hard! Stay hard. The memes that people have put together are just those videos. And he's got a great sense of humor, which people don't realize. He's got a great sense of humor.

He's a fun dude. He's a really fun guy, man. I love that guy. Yeah, he's a fun dude. He's just very fucking serious. Yeah about about pushing himself Did you see the video of him and Israel Adesanya? Yeah, yeah, it's crazy Yeah, Israel's such a world-class athlete world championship fighter Yeah, cannot compete can't keep up with this 50 year old man. Who was the other was it was it was it John Jones?

Who was the other one he trained Tony? Tony. Tony, Tony, who's like cardio is through the roof. I mean, Tonio's like, that guy five rounds, it's just insane. Never, never gases out. Yep. Yeah, he might have overtrained. He might have. Goggans ran through the washer right there. Well, it would have been interesting if he got a hold of Tony when Tony was in his prime. You know, he got a hold of Tony when Tony was at the end of his career, essentially.

Yeah. You know. Well, I mean, that's always it, right? Judges fight her at the prime. Well, yeah, absolutely. And with fighters, there's just, especially natural fighters that aren't taking any steroids or anything.

When it gets to a certain point in time, the game's over. That's just how it is. Right? Time is undefeated. Time's undefeated. But fucking Gargons, almost 50, still out still out there doing it has been injured so many times Not just injured people need to understand the mental strength and we've talked about in the podcast where we showed his x-rays Yep, the work that he's had done on his knees. I mean, it's all insane. It's insane They do experimental stuff on his knees, right? These are destroyed. I mean they must be yeah, they're destroyed

They're complete bone-on- bone and he just keeps running on them. It's just like okay. He cross trains though. I mean the dude like the pull up record, his hands. Cam Hayneson right? True it. I just saw that. Man what a stud that kid is.

I've been watching. I follow him. I follow him. I never met him but man he's great. That consistency and that putting that together and yeah, very impressive I don't know like I I've known him since he was a kid So to me it's fun to watch him become a man and then because become this beast beast Yeah, it's amazing. I mean he did I think it was was it 9,000 chin-ups in 24 hours or 10?

Was the record 10,000 and one and right I'm good 9,000 was the record and he got to 10,000. So he broke the record first, then some cat in Australia broke the record, beat his record, and then he just demolished that guy's record. And then I saw his thing, which was a flex, which reminded me of something I did,

which was like one of the highlight moments in my running career, which is, he goes, I got another personal best in the same week at a marathon. So he ran, so I one time did two marathons a week apart, like six days apart. I did a New Jersey marathon, I won it, and then the next week I did Long Island marathon and I got clipped by some college runner who beat me in the last like quarter of a mile. Damn, you won a marathon? I won that one four times in a row, yeah. That's insane, what's the time? My fast times are 2 23. Two hours in

23 minutes for a fucking marathon. Yeah, I love Goggins But every race we've run against each other I beat him You have two knees But yeah, that's insane. That's that's world class. I mean, it's like it's like a fast for a weekend warrior my claim 23 minutes one year at the New York City Marathon. I want to I want to remember this I got 30th place But at my shows I tell I was the fastest Jew. That's all that mattered. That's all the fastest Jew.

All that mattered. That's super impressive that you win marathons. Well, I won that one, and then six days later, six or seven, I did this other one, and I got beat by this kid who was like 22. I don't care how old I was, 30s. And he beat me, and he fell and collapsed at the finish. And I'm like, again, I'm pretty fresh. And he me and he fell and collapsed at the finish and I'm like again

I'm pretty fresh. He goes. Oh my god, man He goes because that your personal best and I'll never forget looking in his eyes and this guy's wrecked and I go, bro That's not my personal best this week And it was just it was just the most fulfilling thing to say for not having one But I'd run literally a week earlier faster. So I uh, that was a great moment. Yeah, but he beat you He did beat me, true. First loser. That's a weird flex.

Yeah. That's a weird flex. So you were a stockbroker? I wasn't technically a stockbroker. I worked on Wall Street, but I did tech. What did you do on Wall Street? So I went to school for electrical engineering and then worked like, I don't know,

the tech guys who supported the iBankers. Okay. And then how did you get involved in this mentalist thing? This mentalist thing, right? What a weird thing. So when I was a teenager, I started doing magic tricks. So I saw a guy on a cruise ship and I'd never seen really a magician. I'd never, I wasn't into it, didn't know about it, didn't have a kids party magician when I was a kid. And I was obsessed. Literally, I was on a cruise. I followed this guy around the cruise ship. It was a little bit stalker-esque and

there's not that many places to hide if you're a grown man. So I was finding this guy everywhere to just see more tricks. And I got back home and I bought every book I could at Borders. I went to the library. I was obsessive.

I'm kind of those types of people who, I don't do anything 80%, 90%, given the running today, it's like 120%. And that was the thing for about, I don't know, 20 years, it was more, I was doing magic. I was always doing magic on the side. I paid for college, doing magic. Really?

And I run a couple of businesses, yeah. What did you do? Like do shows? So I graduated high school and I was 16. I like skipped a grade, all this. And then my folks got divorced, long story. And they moved back to Israel. I was born in Israel.

So separately moved back to Israel. So I was a bit of a, I guess, I don't know, an adult. Like I had nobody supporting me. So when I went to college, I turned 17, I had to pay all the bills. Whoa. Yeah. So I was doing magic at restaurants. I've been doing magic at restaurants for like 30 years.

And that's where I learned how to read people. Just how to go up to a table of people who are like, who's this twerp? Like who's this nerdy kid with braces? Like, what are you doing here? Get out of here. And how do you win them over quickly? And that's honestly the biggest skill

is how do you in sales read people effectively? Right? That's what I'm selling. I'm selling the thought of reading your mind. Now, did you learn the techniques from books? Did you take classes? No classes, books and videos, did magic. And so mentalism is kind of a field

Like you had David Blaine in here, right? Legend. Yeah growing up like icon So magic tricks are different because magic is there's slight of hand, right? So you're deceiving your eye by making you look at the wrong place at the right time when I do a move. And I can practice that move over and over and over until I get it perfect so that when I perform for you, it works, right? Standup comedy, the most pure art form, right? You and a mic, that's it.

Mine is the closest. Magic, you have props. Mentalism, there's no props. Like I don't need you to pick a card anymore. I don't need it. I can just tell you, think of a card. And that's where I go with it So now you start knowing how people think and you in essence reverse engineer the human mind

It's kind of magic of the mind and so that's where it kind of went from magic And I kept doing more of the mentalism more of it But mentalism has a very steep learning curve if you go do an open mic and you suck how many people get to the level of? Getting better getting better, getting better, putting in the work, takes 10 years to be funny for most people, right? There's a couple of phenoms, but that's a different story. So most mentalists, they drop off

because I'm just gonna go back to magic tricks. This works every time. So it's more difficult to learn. Way more difficult. Is it sheltered? Like is the material on it difficult to find? I think it's more that people don't have the thick skin. Like the same way you said the quitting mentality

where I came back the year later, most people won't improve because you can't practice mentalism in front of a mirror. You can practice magic. So when I do the trick on you and it's a card trick, no offense to magic, it's great, but what we're talking about is a much higher level. I can't get it right and the first few times you do it, the first hundred times, you eat

shit like you're going to get it wrong and most people don't want to do that. Watch, watch, let's try something fun. How about this, if I were to ask you, how long have you been married? Sixteen years. Nailed that question, well played. Thank you. Your sister's You got your sister's happy your wife's happy If I asked you would your wife know your Social Security number? No, she doesn't know it No, so is there any way in the world I can know your Social Security number?

I don't think so right you say I'm a stalker who knows. Yeah. Yeah, you can get the information maybe online agreed agreed Yeah, I'm skeptical. You're skeptical. Well, especially someone famous. Yeah fully plus you can't change that So I'm not gonna do that to you data dumps. Yeah, if I told you right now to make up a random number I say get out your calculator. I'd love that and you add it up and you do a random number You know, I'm screw Calc. I want it to be spontaneous. Would your wife know your ATM pin code? No, no Lie to me. Do not tell me your real ATM pin code code no no lie to me do not tell me your real ATM pin code okay obviously unless you want to make up a fake four digit number off the top of your head what feels to you utterly spontaneous when I say go one two three four digit code

random go okay say it 2020 2020 okay so you asked me how do I do what I do? I'm gonna write down 2020. Okay. It's weird, but statistically, men will lie bigger, women smaller. Men like to lie by saying things are bigger, right? No shocker. Okay. So I don't think, I would tell you right off the jump for me,

that that means that your first number, you don't have to say anything yet, I wrote 2020, is smaller. That's what most people do when they're rushed. If if I had given you five minutes you would have done this different No, I wouldn't have no you would have tried You because you would have thought about it and then people go down a different path. No, no, no Okay worked out for me either way. You'll be honest if I'm right, okay, I Got a hit which means it's a zero or one. I think the first number your codes a one isn't it your real pin code

My ATM pin code Why would I tell you that on the air? Should I should I only show this to you sure only show it to you? Yeah, can we acquiesce that the first number I got was correct? Yes, okay now you did repetition So yeah, I like the fact when people always say to me. It's fake when they watch the videos They're like you must have set up Joe doesn't want this to happen right now You did repetition. So I like the fact when people always say to me it's fake when they watch the videos, they're like, you must have set up, Joe doesn't even want this to happen right now.

He had no idea this was gonna happen. You use two numbers in repeat. What that means is you probably did the same thing. You also didn't use any of the same numbers. I know there's not a two, a zero, or two in it. I don't think so either. And I'm watching you while I say it, you put the hand up, you might as well

have said yes to me out loud, so now I know. Think of the second number, Okay, third number fourth number every time you did it. It's a data point Okay I'm only gonna ask you one more question. I'm not looking for answers. The last number is the biggest isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I'm showing this to you Is there a camera behind me? I don't want to make sure I'm gonna show it to you to you is there a camera behind me I don't want to make sure I'm only gonna show it to you it's not 2020 how'd I do Joe is that your ATM pin code yeah that's weird I'm skeptical because I've got that pin code in the mail you know he's

calling his bank right now and be like, do you know this? Has this guy been playing the long game? Yeah, I don't like that. It's not 1950 anymore, people. We know our food is different, highly processed and less nutritious. Industrial farming practices often strip nutrients from the soil and can deplete the nutrients available for us from food. Even the healthiest diets can have nutrient gaps, but AG1 NextGen helps fill

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Again, that's drinkag1.com slash joe rogan. Have you ever done that to people and then withdraw money? No comment. Interesting. Interesting. I'm trying to avoid criminal yet so I want everyone to know that was correct right that yeah when 2020 yeah that's correct your wife of 16 years doesn't know it now I do it's 2020 not it's just

because that's the year I moved here it wasn't like I think I know you think that's no that's a hundred percent the case that's exactly what it is what do you mean you know I think that's the case You said a four-digit number and I was like, oh the data moved here right 2020. Perfect. I Hear you you don't believe me. It's not that I don't believe you it's that we got layers So like we're peeling through and I know why you think you picked it and I know that you think you gave me no information but I'm telling you that Good luck finding out how in the world could I have found out your ATM pin code.

You said nobody knows this. That informed what I did. So had you thought of a different number of your social security, you wouldn't have said 2020. But that ATM pin code is one that was assigned to me by the bank and I never changed it. Right. So I didn't pick it.

That's even better, isn't it? Had you picked it, I could have looked this up That's actually to me more No, because you could get it from the bank because the bank is the one that fucking sent it to me If I guess man if I have broken into your bank account there are bigger things at play than this podcast I feel I don't keep a lot of money Watch this watch this how many UFC fights do you think you've seen in person or commentated? Boy, I don't even know I really don't know What you see number we on?

UFC 2002 what is it? 200 and 234 or something What is it out now 235 is the next one? But each fight has an undercard you got that you got the title fight You got as many as 15 fights right or as few 3 3 3 16. What is it? UFC 316 is now coming up on June 7th. What did I say to yeah? I was thinking to first I said we have 300. Oh, you know what I'm thinking. I'm confusing

Podcast numbers were in the 2000. Oh, yeah, a lot of podcast UFC. Yeah, that's so it's UFC three what 316 316 10 fights per so I haven't been on all those cards But I started commentary wise in 2021 and Just as a post fight interviewer in 97. So 97, I did it for two years, not as many shows. And then from 2001, I used to do 20 a year. I used to do a lot. I was doing most of them.

I would say thousands of fights. Thousands, right? So probably. Watch this, cause I love that, I like the way you think and I like that you're skeptical, because I'm a huge skeptic. I'm always the one calling BS on this. Right? That's how I started doing it.

If you think through all your fights and you go back in time, and they need to know, this is spontaneous, this is impulsive. You have not thought of this before this moment, have you? Right. I want you to stop and start thinking of different fighters, past or present. Mm-hmm. Could be somebody huge, could be a legendary figure,

could be somebody more under the radar. Okay. Maybe you've had them on the podcast, maybe you haven't. Watch, make sure you think I'm not guiding you. The same way you said 2020, you go, I said that, I would have said that no matter what. Let someone jump into your mind right now that you've definitely seen one of his,

I guess, or her fights. Okay. Bam. I'm not guessing it. I don't care. Tell us. Was it a specific fight you saw this person in or you just seen the fighter? Just seen the fighter.

No, no. Go to a specific fight of that person. Try to like contextualize it. Or change to a different fighter right now if you feel like you need to maybe let me think let me think See Joe's not gonna want to change and now that I said that I'm trying to get it crafty. Yeah get crafty along here Are you gonna come up with the name? I'm not coming up with anything. I want to see how your mind worked I'm only doing this because you told me I would have said 2020 no matter what. You think that you had the thought regardless of what I did.

And I want you to see that there's causality. Boom, do it now. Who just came into your head? Tell us. I'm not guessing. Anderson Silva. Legendary, right? Did he win or lose that fight? He won. He won that fight. How many people did you go to so funny said Anderson Silva legendary guy?

How many people did you think of before you landed on him? Oh, I don't know Yeah, old the Rolodex. They just all went flying through my mind. You just give me a guess how many times dozens dozens Yeah, they just all went flying through my head dozens. Yeah, if you had to put a number on it And you actually count them. How many do you think we went through? Yes. I mean, let's be conservative and say like 14. Like not even say dozens. He was the 14th fighter that popped in your head. No, no, he was in there. He was in the mix. He was in the mix.

I was just trying to figure out which one to pick. I was going to get one with a crafty Russian name. Should have. One of those Chechens. Yeah. All right. No, 14 people went through your head. Should have. It's one of those Chechens. Yeah. Alright, no. 14 people went through your head Anderson Silva. Do you think that at some point in this week you heard something that got that in the back of your head that made you say that now? Do you think there's any way that that could have happened? No, I don't believe so. You don't, right? No, I don't believe so. I've

just been a huge fan of his forever. I don't think something popped up that made me happened. No, I don't believe so. You don't, right? No, I don't believe so. I've just been a huge fan of his forever. I don't think something popped up that made me think of him. All right, I'm just curious. No trick, I'm just curious why that happened. Where do we go from here? Where are you going with this? I don't know where I'm going. You don't know?

I do, but I'm not telling you yet. Oh, okay. No, Joe's flummoxed. He's like, where do we go? No, I mean like I don't know why you asked me the question if you don't Have a resolution. Oh, I'm not guessing it. I wanted to see where you thought of why it came to your mind There'll be a reason I don't want to explain it yet. You'll see okay. Yeah, there'll be a reason why I think so I think there is yeah. What's the reason? Well, I don't I don't want to tell you yet I'm selling sizzle not to stake So these techniques that you use uh-huh are these ones that you've invented or these a lot of them a lot of them Yeah, yeah, and how did you invent them? You know what come to you? I think

My favorite form of entertainment by far is stand-up comedy. Like straight up, I'm a fanboy of comedians. Like not the people that do what I do, because that's, I just love watching how you can take any premise and stuff that's not funny, right, the people that really go, you know, like Andrew Schultz, Life, did you watch his? I haven't seen it yet. You haven't seen it?

No. So how do you take infertility, right, and just, it's not really a very funny subject and make it incredible. One of the best specials. He's amazing. He's so good, so good. And so I like the fact that how you invent that.

So I design with an end in sight. I say, what do I want people to remember about what I do? Because I'm not really in the business of fooling you, honestly, and like entertaining you. All of those are side effects. What do I think I do for a living? I create memorable moments, which is very definable because if you go see a movie,

let's say you see a popcorn flick, you walk out of the movie theater, 10 minutes like, what happened in the movie? I don't know, it was fun, I don't know. That to me is 100% like the death of my show. You leave and you will remember things, hopefully for years to come. And that's because I can rework your memory.

That's really a lot of the techniques I do. People think that your memory is infallible, that what you see is some sort of blueprint, like a video, and it's not. It has to do with how you feel in the moment, the emotions, the things you can position, the same way hypnosis works. So I can kind of engineer memories in a certain emotions, the things you can position, the same way hypnosis works. So I can kind of engineer memories in a certain way,

the way people remember things, the way they think, and create those moments that people talk about, hopefully for years, and that's what's been, I guess, that's what's been the driver of my business and what's helped lead to my success. Engineering memories. And when you first started getting into mentalism, is that the word to use for it?

Mentalism? You're a mentalist, but do you call it mentalism? I guess so, yeah, mentalism. is that the word, do you use the word? Mentalism? Yeah. You're a mentalist, but do you call it mentalism? I guess so, yeah, mentalism. Did you know that, or is it something that- No, I learned it. I learned, you know what, I learned certain things and I observed them and I didn't understand why they happened.

Do you ever have that? You ever have a moment in a set where you say it's something that you didn't think was funny, but got a huge laugh? Mm-hmm. Do you have that, or do you always know- Sure, yeah, yeah. Because it's usually not the punch. It's like, I didn't know that would be funny right then.

Oftentimes with the new bit, yeah. You don't exactly know where it's funny. Where the beats are, what was the word I said in this way, what was that inflection point? So when I was doing restaurants, I had this trick where I would have somebody pick a card out of a deck of cards. Right? They would put the card back in the deck.

They sign it with their name. And I used to do this at a bunch of restaurants. They would shuffle up the deck. I give them a rubber band. I say, rubber band that bad boy. And I would take the deck and I would throw it at the ceiling. It's kind of a famous trick. And then boom, the ceilings were really high

at all the restaurants I worked at, so nobody could peel them down. Their card would be stay stuck to the ceiling. And this was great for multiple ways. One, everybody talks about it. And they're like, dude, this guy stuck my card to the ceiling. How the hell did he do that?

They would also bring people back to the restaurant. You write cha-ching, cha-ching. The managers love me, because we'd bring more people back to see it and point at where their card was, right? Business 101. And so I create a great value proposition to the manager. Why am I there?

I'm getting you guys more customers. But one time I'm listening to people that came back in and they're talking about the trick and they go, yo man, I picked a card, I put it back in the deck and I shuffled it up and next thing I know, I look at the ceiling and my card's on the ceiling and I'm like, yo, that's not what happened. I threw the deck up, the deck fell down

and then the card was on the ceiling. So I go, why did that guy misremember it? Maybe he's just drunk, maybe whatever, but I'm trying to understand, why did he have a different memory of the same event? And what I realized is that people observe what you have them focus on, right? Tony Robbins has a great bit where he goes,

right now, close your eyes, tell me everything that's green in this room. And you're like, green, I don't, you know. But then when you open your eyes, I see that the UFO lights are green instantly. But I say, close your eyes again, what's purple in this room? I'm like, I didn't look for purple.

You find what you're looking for. So if I didn't say, it took me a while to like iterate and figure it out, but if I don't look up when I throw the cards, when I would throw the cards up and let them fall back down in my hand and not look up, the percentage would go 80, 90% that afterwards, people, when they told the story They edited they clipped out the part of me throwing this deck and now it becomes a miracle

How the hell is that card on the ceiling stuck? You mean you shuffled it it was signed it's on the ceiling That went from being a good trick to a miracle and I kind of learned that at about age 15 And I started realize how do I do that with everything I do? Because that's a life hack for everything you do. That's not magic. That's life. How do you get people to remember what you want and forget the things you don't want? That's how you achieve success. You start to highlight your strengths. You find ways and that's a learnable skill. That's not something for magic. That's something in all of life. And what is it like when you're thinking this? when you're thinking I'm gonna get people to remember something

How do you how are you doing this? Like what's your intention when you're trying to devise like what to what to do? Well, I guess I guess my intention why at the end of the day, I'm a competitive sob I want to be the best in the world at what I do like I'm driven by that's like Olympic gold medalist Like I want to do the best things possible Most people don't know what a mentalist is you go on the street hundred people how many people are gonna say yeah I have a second ATM card Leave that for the end. I want to try it again. Yeah. Yeah, I don't like to do the same thing

I gotta do better. I want to see it again, though. I want to see if you could do it again All right before we go. How about that? Not right now or we're in flow. Okay, okay But I'm trying to throw you off. You could, listen, I don't get it right every time. That's the other part. A magic trick works every time, this doesn't. I've eaten it on live national TV with millions of people watching.

Yeah, man, there's no safety net. It's not a trick. There's not a card trick where you put it in, I find it. There's not like that. So how are you doing it? I mean, I'm telling you, I don't read minds, I read people. I've got a whole host of different skills algorithms. You name it like misdirection It's all a wheelhouse of skills and amusing to create the impression I can read your mind

But this has got to be a weird thing to know how to do Weird like in a bad way or a good way. Ah Definitely a good way. Yeah, but weird to like you have like an extra frequency I agree you're tuning into with humans like you're experiencing life in a different way because you're experiencing life through this understanding of like thought patterns It's you know what the best way do you remember in born identity? The first scene like one of the scenes where he loses memory and he walks in the restaurant You remember that scene and he's sitting at a diner. Do you remember that one?

I don't. He sits there and he turns and he goes, he doesn't remember who he is. And he goes, why do I know? And I'm gonna massacre this quote, but why do I know that that guy's 250 can handle himself in a fight? Why do I know this?

Why do I know that right now I could run for two and a half miles before my core temperature goes down to this? Like he, it's like this amazing superhero spy moment of like, how the hell does he know all that stuff? So he's observing life at a much more hyper focused level than most people are. Most people are dialed in at autopilot.

If you could set a speaker to autopilot and here's what you're observing, I don't do it in my day-to-day life. It requires focus. It's not the same. It's kind of like, I guess, I don't know. I don't lift weights, I just run. But how much focus is required to try to do,

the largest bench press you've ever done? I assume that you have to get psyched up, you have to focus, you have to do everything right for that to work, just an analogy. But for me, when I'm performing, you asked me why did I run 27 miles this morning, that dials in my mind. Like I'm focused, or I thought through everything

I'm gonna do today, it's a laser focus. That got me kind of in tune. I could also have not run, but I'm also away from home, so that was like my joy. Is the sequel better than the original? We're gonna find out at UFC 316. It is a rematch nine months in the making. Get in on all the action at Draft King Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the UFC.

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if your bet wins when you bet just five bucks. Only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Eligibility varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario that must win to receive reward minimum minus 500 odds required bonus beds expire 168 hours after issuance for additional terms and responsible gaming resources see DK ng co slash audio So when you're like putting together a show when you're gonna do a show How do you structure it like how do, like day one, you're like, okay, I'm getting ready to do a show. You mean something on TV or like what I do for a living? Like events. Or either one.

Any kind of show you're doing. So for my day to day living, which is I do a lot of like really big corporate events and then I do, I guess a lot of private parties, things of that sort, performances, like live performances. Typically I structure it the same way I think anybody would. I wanna go out the gate very strong. I wanna very instantly establish credibility.

Who am I? What do I do? Am I any good at it? And why should you be paying attention to me? Because all those questions off the jump is like, who the hell cares? I always go into it with who cares what you can do. You're special, I don't care.

I like the thought of, I'm gonna prove to you that this is something incredible and that it's something you're special, I don't care. I like the thought of, I'm gonna prove to you that this is something incredible and that it's something you're interested in emotionally. Right, if I told you to just make a random number up, who cares, but now it's gonna haunt you that that's your fricking ATM pin code. So I prefer that, so I do something very quick that freaks you out and then every single thing

needs to have a very clear premise. Like I call it clarity of effect. I don't like a trick where I'm like, get a book, get a Rubik's cube, get the, like it's too confusing. You need to be able to explain to a six year old what I did in one sentence for it to be memorable. That's the key.

The best things you've ever seen are typically stuff you can describe in one max two sentences. And for TV, for TV it's the same exact thing, but I always like to do new stuff. So I've done a lot of TV appearances and I always structure it based on who's watching. So rather than it being about me and me saying, oh, look what I can do and look how cool this is, right? You do a card trick.

Again, I'm not saying that's not amazing, but the card trick's about you typically. If I'm on ESPN and I've done hundreds of millions of views doing stuff for football players, you're watching this. You're a football fan. You're like, who cares about this guy? I'm gonna do stuff about football players and about what interests you if you're a fan.

I don't know if you've ever seen, I did a clip with Joe Burrow from the Bengals where I said, Joe, I ever spoken to you a word in my life? He goes, no. Like, honestly, the funny thing about that is I wasn't even supposed to use him in the show. They told me he's shy, you don't want to, like don't use him in the show.

And they said, if you can't avoid him. I got in there, I tried to rile up the gang, you know, kind of pure pressure. And I'm like, should we get Joe in here? And they're like, yeah, get him up. Haven't spoken a word to this guy in my life. There's no access. I went in with ESPN, shout out to Adam Schafter,

who I love, who set all these wheels in motion, but Joe stands up, doesn't know me from anyone, and I say, every wide receiver and tight end in the room stand up, and I go, what if I could tell you who you're gonna throw that ball to? What's that worth, right? That's the holy grail if you're in football. I go, catch the ball, quarterback.

I go, look at everyone in this room, and now look at me, and I wrote on a huge Huge thing showed the camera throw it to anybody you want throws it got the first one, right? I go let's do it again. I go throw it to anyone you want anyone I go anyone throws it got the second one right everyone's freaking out I go one last play one like to his luck and I write fakes to Jamar you can watch the clip It's most viral thing I've ever done and he he fakes it to Jamar, turns around, throws it to another guy, nailed it exactly.

Just, and you just see his face. And so I was thinking about how I would do that for two years, two years of thinking of every single way that could work, not work, go wrong. Everything about it was, you know, he thought I went in the room and it's so simple. That was two years of me thinking about it during every run. So for two years, you knew you were gonna do this

or you knew that you were- I started with the end. You asked me the same way, I don't know how you like form a set, but you asked me, how do I design? I was designing with the story people would tell. And so people that don't know who I am, don't know anything, go,

yo, we saw this guy, did you see this guy he's been here So Joe burrow to throw the ball to any people throws it gets it right throws it like the story is I told the quarterback Anybody he would throw the ball to so it was any quarterback. It wasn't Joe burrow in your head Well, I didn't know who would be he said you could do it for two years So for two years you thought you were gonna be on ESPN and with a quarterback Well, no, so I had he was the second season. So when I first started it, I start brainstorming. I'm like, I can't control what thoughts come in. I'm constantly thinking about what I'm gonna do.

And I just do notes apps. I write stuff down in the shower. Like when I run is when I come up with stuff and in the shower. Sometimes on airplanes, but I sleep on planes. But that's when it hits me. Like where are your bursts? You must have like, where are you getting material?

Mostly late at night Yeah, right. Yeah, but sometimes driving driving you don't you drive anything? I mean Phone calls. I'm usually concentrated on talking to people Yeah, they're not the times where ideas come to me a lot of times is driving with no music on Wow Yeah, I'm never in the car by myself ever. Oh really? family, but yeah five kids oh with no music on. Wow, yeah, I'm never in the car by myself, ever. Oh really? Mm-mm. Family, but yeah. Five kids.

Oh wow. Yeah, with driving to work, you know, usually that's when it comes to me. Yeah, and I'm in New York City, so there's no- Or the sauna, sauna. Sauna's good, cause you can't be on electronics. Right, yeah. Yeah, the phones are a killer.

The phones, like, you zap any creativity or boredom. You need boredom. Yeah, you do need boredom. Yeah, you need boredom killer. The phones like you zap any creativity or boredom. You need boredom. Yeah, you do need boredom. Yeah, you need boredom for ideas to come to you for sure. Yep. Yeah, that's the problem. But essentially with social media, it's like it's a boredom.

You are still bored, but you are occupied. Right, you don't get to sit with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I think is key, because that's when they kind of fire off. And I think that's, you you know not to get into but like so many kids now have no way to deal with boredom Yeah, like it's like panic. I gotta get my phone. I got it. You know that whole feeling of I wish there was a way to Do that they're just completely unaccustomed to not being constantly entertained right even entertained by nonsense. That's not even really entertaining

It's just distracting. Yeah, which is a big part of it yeah so you sat out for two years prepping this thing no I didn't sit out I was just always thinking it's like right I mean but you know you set out I should say set out in your mind you had this idea in your head for two years how do I do it yeah how do you do it how do you do it that's that that that was the question because I didn't know how to do it at first. How did you do it? Million dollar question right? I wouldn't be in business if everybody knew that's kind of. Well okay even better. How did you learn how to do this kind of thing? So I started with books and then

there's some videos but it's a very esoteric. What do the books tell you that's applicable? They give you a series of foundational things like right almost everybody who becomes a Mentalist stars a magician it's kind of like if you're a doctor You gotta be a doctor before you become a plastic surgeon so there's this core set of skills that you utilize To know how to fool people right to know how people think okay, right think about you if I taught you a card trick right now There's always a level of deception. We go, oh, that's the thing. Well, there's tricks called self-working tricks where you don't need to do any sleight of hand.

They work by themselves as long as you follow the instructions like IKEA furniture, like step one, step two, step three, as long as you can work people in a certain way to do the right thing versus somebody being, I'm not doing that. You're like, oh shit, what do I do right now? You have to know how to finesse people.

You have to influence people effectively. And so that same stuff within magic almost always applies to props. You need a thing to do the trick. Now it could be a regular deck of cards, in which case you're looting slights, but also there's gimmicks, right? There's tricks you can buy at stores,

which when I was a kid, I'm like, oh, teenager, I'm like, get me the next gimmick. But then to get better, you start being able to do stuff impromptu, right? That's when you kind of hit another level where I don't need stuff. I can do stuff with anything, you know? I could do stuff.

It's like a good story from my book that I'm writing right now, but it's like where I just needed anything around. I was like, I ended up in jail for a weekend. It's a long story, but like in jail, one weekend, stupid weekend, but I walk in there by myself and I should have been out that day. But anyway, I got stuck all weekend

and I watched them with cards. And it was like, I had trained my whole life for this moment where I walked up record scratch to like 40 dudes and I go, can I see those cards? And it was like, everyone looked at me like, what's this guy about to do? And I just did card tricks for the next eight hours. When I went to take a shower, I'm like, am I,

I'm like thinking of the show Oz. I'm like, oh my God, right now I take a, I had protection. I went to the shower, Macaustic County jail in Michigan. And literally I had people being like, go take a shower. We got you, bro. What did you go to jail for? Oh, so stupid. So we had, this is so dumb.

This almost derailed my whole career. Drunken idiots. I go up to visit a buddy in college and we steal from a Papa John's Don't ask me why a broken phone at a college Papa John just being idiots I paid for the pizza, but there was a broken phone on the counter and you know, this is like me slight a hand style I'm like, I'm stealing this thing. It just gone and it was in my jacket And then I told my buddies you you guys gotta get something too. So they go in the bathroom, which doubles up as the employee locker room. And they take three dirty shirts, dirty shirts from a laundry bin.

And we bring them back to my buddy's house like idiots. We wear them. And we at the party, I barely remember this. I was like blackout drunk, are like, Papa John's, who wants a pizza? Who wants a pizza? I end up going to sleep on his futon, right, at like 2 a.m., and at 4 a.m., someone comes in and they're like, yo, the cops are here.

I'm like, dude, it's not my house, what do you want from me? Did you guys post the videos? No, this is pre-social media, man. No, no, somebody ratted us out. Somebody's roommate, I found this out way later, called and goes, yo, bro, there's a bunch of dudes here with a broken phone from Papa John's,

I didn't know any of this, but somebody comes in they're like, yo, the cops are here. I'm like, they're here for you. And I'm like, here for me? What do you mean they're here for me? I don't live here. And cops come in the room and I'm wearing like aggressively small underwear at this point.

This is like tidy whitey. This couldn't have been more of like a bad perp walk. And I, they go, yo, you're under arrest. And I'm like, for what? And they're like, for stealing from Papa John's. And what am I under arrest and I'm like for what and they're like for stealing from Papa John's and what am I gonna say I'm wearing the shirt oh my god this on a Friday night how old do you I was 20 years old and I was just about to get an internship from Merrill Lynch and while this story is hilarious now it's like a funny chapter in my book it was like God help me did I

avoid everything and then when I went to jail yo scariest one of scariest days of my life because it's it's how'd you get out of everything? So I got out of everything because I had a clean record. I was pretty upstanding citizen and You know not to get in the weeds or something called Holmes youthful trainee act I wonder if they still have it or is expunged for my record Didn't have to report it to like the Wall Street firm and they also said they were charging me They put us in like a drunk tank, me and two buddies. And they said they're charging us with felony larceny. And I've seen some like law and order.

I'm like felony, what is this like? What do we steal like 20 bucks worth of stuff? They go, but you stole things they don't sell. Had you stolen $999 of pizza, it would have been a misdemeanor. And I know they're lying to me. I'm not a mentalist then and I'm inebriated, but I can read the room, didn't say a word, knew this was BS, and then they separated us

when we went to general population. And it's not like the movies. It's like, it was wild. It was wild when I went in there, and I just knew this is my cheat code. It was like everything in life had prepared me for this moment. And the jail was also, again, I didn't know this,

but it was very segregated. Like the white dudes are here, the black dudes are here. And I didn't know what, what do you do when you go in? Like, what do you do? I'm five foot nothing. I'm like a buck 40 dripping wet. What do I do? How do you make friends right now?

And I see the black guys playing spades and I just walk up and it's like, you make your move. And I'm like, let me see those cards. And it was just, it's like a moment I have, and I didn't up and it's like, you make your move. And I'm like, let me see those cards. And it was just, it's like a moment I have, and I didn't stop for hours. I didn't repeat a trick. Like I know tricks encyclopedically. I just go all day.

Wow. What an experience. It was crazy. That's wild. And then it was all thrown out and cost me some money. It was definitely a very, very stressful few weeks. And I never stole anything since, honestly, that was scared straight. It was definitely a very, very stressful few weeks and I never stole anything since. Honestly, that was scared straight. That was very, very smart.

Like I, you prefer to learn a lesson like that for my kids especially without being stupid, but so many of us have to be stupid to internalize a lesson of touching the stove and I had to burn my hands, but. Did you always talk this way, the way you talk? You talk very fast with a lot of energy. Is this your whole life?

I think so, even though man, anyone on 1.5 x the way I listen to podcast is gonna be miserable with me But yeah, maybe that's it like you're listening to podcast at that speed you're communicating at that speed It's like you're on you know on and you ran 27 fucking miles. That's true no caffeine So I'm not a caffeine you don't drink caffeine at all. I try to avoid it. I'm not a caffeine guy. You don't drink caffeine at all. I try to avoid it I'm not a coffee guy. I missed the boat on coffee I honestly wish I did they probably wouldn't be good for me given how dialed in I am but like I just never Started drinking caffeine, so I never got into it. Do you ever mess with any stimulants? Not really no not really What does that mean like what do you mean by stim like I'll have anything if I don't sleep?

Yeah, and that happens a lot So if I'm not like getting enough sleep, and I've done done a red eye and I'm this and that I will occasionally do like a Celsius Or a red bull, but I don't really like it I do it kind of as medicine because I have to be alive and function But I really try to avoid it What is it like when you get hit with a Celsius and you haven't been drinking any caffeine? So I only drink about a third of it and then I pour it out And and my kids are always like why you pouring out? And they call everything a bruski, which is a weird thing

They call it just because before I always like it was always like a bruski is what they've Extrapolated to every beverage in a can being a bruski. That's hilarious. That's funny And so one third just like must I can't do more than the roof. Yeah. Yeah, like if you drink a four loco I did for love booze in it. You know four locos are like But it has like caffeine too, that's like bad decisions in a can right there Yeah, like what am I thinking of oh a red line is that the one no? I think it's for loco It's caffeine mixed with alcohol one. That's like was just caffeine. It was fucking crazy Pre-workout that was fucking people up was that a red line something like that. Oh, there was that what that was the other one?

That was a rip fuel Yeah Yeah So you've always been like this I got my wife. I think so I'm more on now because we're doing something But if I go on certain platforms or TV, and I know I want to be slow then I'll just calibrate down I'm getting fired up. Do you when you plan out a show whether it's a corporate show or a television show Do you have like a whiteboard? Do you like put your ideas on like how do you how do you do it?

So I take meticulous notes about everything everyone I meet everything at the end of a show Immediately as quickly as I can afterwards, probably some people record shows. I hate rewatching myself on corporate shows and like live shows. I don't mind TV stuff, but for some reason though, is if I've repeated material, cause it's like muscle memory, you've done this before, it irks me to watch again.

But I write down everything that happened, every nuance, like paragraphs about everything that happened, which is a useful life hack, because I remember it all, but also I get repeat bookings a lot. So if somebody brings me back, now it's like a real magic trick where I know everything about what happened. And if you even just recount stuff from two years ago,

people think you have superhuman memory, or what are they like? People's number one subjects are themselves, their family, and their friends. The more you can do that and give them back stuff about them, the more they're like, wow, what a caring individual, right? Being a good listener, a lot of times just repeating back

to people what they just said. Right, right. When you do these corporate shows and you do these television shows, when it goes great, do you have this idea in your head head like now I've got to ramp it up. Now I've got to push it even further. Now I've got to make it even more difficult for me for sure for TV more than corporate because corporate's not as big of a deal because what does somebody want there? They want to defined quantity, right? They don't want somebody.

You don't want to work out new material if you're being paid a lot lot It's just it's a stadium. Are you doing new ones? Yeah Like you're gonna do your hour. You're gonna do what's solid So I do a lot of that and the problem is I don't really have a lot of places where I can do new material Because I'm just so busy. So I have so many events that I'm like, I don't really have like anything Yeah, they're like open mics for mentalists where you can go practice. There might've been in the past, but right now it's just not where I'm at. So you just practice on friends sometimes? Everything's in my head.

Everything. Yeah, so a lot of things I'll do on TV, I've never done before ever. Really? Yeah, so I'm just thinking through everything that could go wrong, and I go through kind of like a list of what could go wrong here, what could go wrong here,

what if they think this right there, what if we change this? I have like plan a b c de I have just a long list of what everything will go like a pick your own adventure and Typically, I know where to go with it and then Controlling your body and your tension is everything right so you're a hunter You step on a branch animal hears it what happens right gone, right? So you're a hunter. You step on a branch, animal hears it. What happens, right? Gone, right?

It's a sense that we can feel. We have the same thing, we're animals. If I get tense when something's going wrong, you can sense it. Even if you don't know it on a conscious level, you can sense it. And now we have a cascade. So my job is based upon me being someone of the alpha

and being in control of the situation. And so if I, right, think about it. If I just said, think of your pin code, you're like, I don't want to, right? I don't want to, I'm gonna do this instead. I'm gonna do this instead, right? How did you acquiesce to my will? You did what I wanted in essence, right?

We could manipulate any way, but at the end of the day, you did what I wanted. And in my show, I'm the one pointing the camera. I'm always the director. You don't get to point where you want, you did what I wanted. And in my show, I'm the one pointing the camera. I'm always the director. You don't get to point where you want, I kind of in charge. And even if I let you think you're in charge, I'm still in charge at the end of the day. I come to my kids, I want them to eat veggies.

I don't say, you gotta eat your veggies. They'll say, no. I go, you're so lucky right now. Carrots, cucumbers, or peppers, which one? You're so lucky, you get to choose first before your brother or sister. Now, I've framed it differently Right anybody with toddlers knows that's the best way to do it. Don't go straight on that's not gonna work, right?

So the same thing applies power dynamics in relationships with people So I got lost in my train of thought but in essence if I am messing up and you know it It's gonna go downhill really fast and so so on TV, some of my biggest mess ups, you don't know, but I am shitting my pants, flop sweat, like fully, and I can't let you see that. I need to be so calm because if I am not calm, you can actually tell and it's gonna keep going worse and I can't get you to go back to what I want

and I've lost control of the situation. So years and years were spent doing that. I would say it's very akin to a sniper. I'm not a sniper, don't get me wrong, I'm not military, but how do you calm your heart rate? How do you stay calm even when you're not? And I could have an HRM on me. I'm calm when things are going wrong.

And that must help, the running must help for that. I think so, because I have a low heart rate. Just in control of it as well, right? Like your heart muscle's very finely tuned. Yeah. I think it helps. I mean, it can't hurt. I think it does.

My friend Cam Haines, who also runs these crazy ultra marathons, he's also the best bow hunter in the world. And bow hunting is, a lot of it is controlling your anxiety at the moment of the shot execution. I would imagine for him his heart rate is Completely under control all the time because he's always like very low Yeah, because he does so many miles like everything he could stay calm It's probably a really great tool just for staying calm, right? I think so I mean I the way I describe the ultra marathons,

because they're silly, right? He just ran, I love Cam, ran 250 miles. Do you see that thing? Amazing. That's a crazy thing to do. That's not healthy, and I'm a nutcase who can say that. And for most people, they're like, I don't want to do that, and you don't need to.

But what is that? What is that really? When you do that, everything else in life becomes easier. The lows that you experience when you do something like that is a way you cannot fake in any other way. You cannot test who you really are than putting yourself, you could be on the couch saying,

what would I do and be tough guy and you're pretending to be Goggins or Haynes. But until you get in that level where you're miserable, you haven't slept in a day, you have all that, there might be another way to push yourself, but that's where you learn who am I really at my core. And then when you go back to normal life, everything else, the volume is turned down.

And when I come back from those races, all I do is get a mirror to put up to see who am I really when things are at their lowest and when I wanna quit and I don't. Yeah, I think that's a very strong statement. I think one of the things that you just said there, I've said a bunch of times, is that if you can work out really hard and push your body and push your mind, it makes other forms of adversity that you face during the day much easier. And I think that's one of the reasons why so many people are so filled with anxiety.

It seems like that's such a simple solution that most people don't want to accept it like oh, there's more to that There's a mental imbalance is there's a this there's that like Perhaps but everybody that I know that does what I'm talking about everybody They know that pushes themselves very hard in the gym or running or doing yoga or whatever They're the most happy and the most relaxed and they're able to face adversity throughout the day much easier than people that don't take care of their body, that don't eat well, that don't exercise,

and don't experience any voluntary physical discomfort. Couldn't agree more. It's just, I think it's mandatory, you know? And it doesn't have to be what I do or it doesn't have to be what you do or it doesn't have to be what you do It's go find do pickleball. Okay, go fit play Some other sport tennis do something that's fun. Jiu-jitsu is a great one Yeah fun to do and then you learn how to do something while you're working out Muay Thai is another one like that

You know, there's a lot of stuff that you can do.'s fun, that's exercise, but man, you should exercise. You know, you gotta move your body. You gotta move your body. Again, I don't want to speak out of turn like medical, but they've shown over and over that exercise is just it's almost as effective in certain regards and like like just being a certain level of healthiness than antidepressants. No, more effective. Yeah, more effective. It's unbelievable. Statistically clinically more effective. More effective. Yeah, because it's of course it is Of course it is like this is the reason why people are so filled with anxieties because your body has certain physical Requirements right your body was designed to fight off predators and to run away from enemies and to hunt and gather food

That's the same DNA as people that live tens of thousands of years ago, courses through your body. That's the fabric of your body. That's you. You can't deny that, and there's a reason why this sedentary sort of generation that we're experiencing right now, because of phones and tablets and all the, sitting in front of screens all the time,

it's the most depressed. Right, no, for sure anxious too. Like the Jonathan Haydon, like it's wild, the correlation, and it's just so clear cut. But yeah, social media is very, it's one of those things, there's some benefits, but man oh man, you can't put that genie back in the bottle. So you gotta find the right way to do it.

There's some benefits in that there's a lot of inspiration. I agree. You know, and also information. You know, I'm not completely off of social media. I tap into it, but I've radically reduced it over the last month or so. And in doing that, it's really been much, much nicer. Like life is way easier. But occasionally I'll find something really interesting on social media. So it's like, boy, I don't want to not know that I don't want to not like find out about some new scientific breakthrough or some new thing that's going on. One of the things that I found that helps me though, instead of social media, I just, I just have a bunch of stuff

that I curate in my Google News app. And so I'll just like find, like any sort of scientific breakthrough or some weird discovery or a lot of really interesting things about ancient civilizations. I just have that stuff curate. So it just shows up on my feed. Where do you get that on your phone? Right. Yeah. It's just the Google News app.

It's great because it's like that way I can find stuff out without having to go and just hopefully randomly run into it on X or on Instagram. Right. You know, that's how that helps a lot. Terrible with X. A lot of my friends get news on X. I'm just like, oh. It's too much negativity. It's all a lot of negativity. And for Instagram for years, I started realizing that it just, uh, like a compare and despair is one of the, you know that like where I'm,

I'm like, why am I getting off of this and feeling worse than I did getting on it? And so I really had to flip a switch in my brain to, I got rid of that. Anything that I don't like, I don't show. And I stopped focusing on what I don't have and I focus on what I do have. And so it-

So did you like used to go to it and you see someone with a giant house and a Lamborghini or something like that? It was a material possession. It wasn't material It was I need to use so I don't look at people and hope poorly upon them I look more at it and say I'm not doing enough. So it's like an inferior You're always gonna be lesser than right yours gonna be someone's gonna be younger richer smarter like every err but in my case it was more of I

Wanted to achieve a level of success and just seeing other people in my field or other fields, and I felt like I'm not doing enough. I'm somewhat driven, ambitious. So I'm like, I'm just not doing enough right now. And it's that constant feeling of I'm not doing enough, doesn't drive you. It would be better to say, look at them.

I'm so happy for them. I'm gonna do that too. It should be a positive uplifting thing and it's a flip in your brain it's like multiplying negative one times negative one and much more of a inflection point of gratitude like I Do you know Jay Shetty? Jay I don't know the podcaster really good, dude I've definitely heard met him last year and he told me something very stuck with me for the last year

Which is million thoughts a day We're on social media. We're all this that he was the only two thoughts You can't control them all but try to control two thoughts each day The first one when you wake up and the last one you go to sleep. It's that easy Those two just try to have the first thing you wake up be one and before you go to bed Just have one last thought and I they're always for me., it's like, yo, every day alive is a blessing. Like, literally, I believe that in my core. I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow.

Like, a parent in my school just passed away recently. Shattered, like, young kids, cancer, I've known a few people, and you see that, and you're like, no, that's for real, though. You don't know what will happen tomorrow. So I've hit the lottery. Like, I'm blessed beyond measure. Wife, way out of my league.

Smart, gorgeous, sharp as a whip, five beautiful kids. Like I try to focus on everything I have and never on what I don't have. I get to do what I love for a living. Like my mindset has completely evolved of why would I think of what people don't? And everybody, if you're alive, you should be happy. You do not know what tomorrow will be.

And I know that's all like new agey whatever But that's you don't know when you're your clocks up We were just talking about that in the green room last night at the comedy club about Gravid the problem with gratitude is that too many people have co-opted it right and really annoying people annoying annoying like wooden beads types You know right attitude, but gratitude is really important, but no it's actually what you think because your thoughts create a lot of your reality Yeah, same way. I said looking around the room So if your mindset starts to become one more of rather than you see someone you're like screw that guy. He's rich, right? That's how the mindset that's easy for you to say they're rich you see that in comments all the time

Yeah, I'm like I think that person worked their butt off to get to where they are And what did they do and you you know what, that's inspirational to me. What can I learn from that? And so that's just a mindset of, I don't see it as a zero sum game. Well, it's one thing that those people that post things like that have in common, when you go to their page, they're all very boring.

It's really interesting. You see like the expression of their dull mind that's like, fuck them, they got money. I don't have money they got money it's a dull brain and I always wonder like what is it like to be that person is that person is that a biological hitch or is it just learned behavior like what is it that makes them that stupid I don't know if it's stupid I don't know if a judge but I think you project your insecurities it's a little

bit of that but it's just it's's clearly a stupid way to think. Right. You know, it's totally not empowering. Like to complain about someone else's success or be angry about someone else's success is not empowering in any way, shape, or form. And so that's inherently stupid. But you find the excuses. Cause you're like, if I had that, if I had that,

and rather than- Must be nice. Well, exactly, must be nice. Rather than than saying how do I do this for myself? Exactly it's much easier especially you've given up on certain things Yeah, now once you've given up It's better to make excuses and bring someone else down to try to bring you up well Here's what's dumb about it. This is why I said it's stupid It doesn't get any better when you think like that. Instead, if you can shift your focus and see someone doing something,

recognize that these tinges of jealousy that you feel are completely natural, but realize that to get the most out of this, you have to switch that in your mind to inspiration. And that person's success that's kind of freaking you out now becomes fuel. Now becomes fuel and you can motivate yourself. But you have to avoid the fuck that guy and fuck this, fuck that. That doesn't help you at all. That does zero good for you. And in fact, it occupies all of your precious time with complaining when instead if you

can manage it and it can be managed you can turn that into inspiration and then go out and try to do something either focus more on what you're doing realize maybe I'm doing this where it's not as efficient or maybe I can have more energy maybe I just need to do it more maybe I need to be a little bit more disciplined in my approach whatever it is but those little shifts will have measurable changes in the outcomes. Huge, huge changes. Major.

Down the line. Especially the big one. Change jealousy to inspiration. Love that. You have to be able to do it. Right. It's a giant key. You know, I remember when I was 21 years old, there was a guy who was going on stage and I was

hoping that he bombed. I remember thinking that I was hoping that he bombed. And the reason I recognized it, I was realizing that I was recognizing that he was talented and that he was really funny and it bothered me that maybe I wasn't as talented as him or I wasn't as talented as him or I wasn't as funny as him so instead of like seeing him go what is he doing like wow this is great instead now all the sudden I was hoping that he failed right and then I realized like oh here's the problem you first of all that's just like general bitch thinking that like can enter into your head and you got to

figure out how to stop that. Yup. But I also realized that I was getting to this weird precarious position which happens to a lot of artists where you get into something whether it's music or stand up comedy because you love it as a fan. You love watching it. Like I loved comedy. But then I, when I became a comedian, I stopped loving comedy. Now I was comparing everyone to myself. Right. That's brutal, right? Yeah. And it's not good for you. And

I was like, no, no, no, you got to go back to laughing at stuff that's good and not connecting it to you at all. It has nothing to do with you. So when someone's really good, that should be great. Right. And then you should be laughing laughing even if you don't like that person you should be laughing right just you even if you hate someone and they're funny you should be laughing because it's good for you yeah and it's I find that it's over time it's it's it's almost it's selfish but it's selfless at the same time is I like to show love to people coming up as much as possible and try to highlight them and try to kind of pay it forward in a way. That's for the new people that are kind of doing

what I do or doing different things. It makes you feel good. It makes you feel good to do good for others. It's selfish to help people. Isn't that funny? I say that too. I say it's very funny we think the same. Yeah, I think exactly the same way.

It's kind of selfish, but it's also, that's what community is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be not just about you, and that's the difference between a community and a cult, right? The cult is like, then you have the cult leader, he starts banging everybody's wife, and he wants everybody's money.

There's always an inflection point where you're starting to bang wives. That's always, where is that in the cult? Always, always. There's always a message from God. Right, that tells you you need more pussy. And you're like, those two right there, I don't know why. I didn't say it.

I didn't say it for the record. Yeah. He said it. God said it. And then always the part else is there's always some sort of a end point. Like the world's gonna end, but it didn't because we prayed so hard.

So we're back, baby. Yeah, those guys are great. There was a billboard in Los Angeles a while back that had the date of the end of the world Right and you drive by and I was like I can't wait to show up here and take a selfie in front of it The day after this fucking stupid date, right? Because those guys are never right never right the that's weird. They're the worst mentalists, you know the That's weird. They're the worst mentalists, you know the the cult leaders Yeah, cult leaders. They just never see the writing on the wall The cult leader has like a very unique where again, there's there's a fine line between if you looked at a path of my life

Again, I don't see myself cult leader But a con man is very similar in many regards to what I do because that's using these skills in what I would describe as Like an unethical way, right? Don't you think they're the same thing? A cult leader is a type of con man. Oh, I'm saying what I do is like a con man. Yeah, but you are a con man for entertainment purposes. Right, exactly. It's different.

Like you have an understanding of the human mind, but instead of using it in a... You do it for entertainment, which is like a good way to use it. For sure. Where everybody gets happiness out of it. It's happiness and you're not lying about the premise which is the premises. I'm starting from the jump. I'm not psychic I'm not supernatural people ask me is this like a talent or is it a gift and I think it's similar Well, yeah I mean you've got to have some sort of thing in you to be a good comedian or a good musician or anything like that You can work on and get better, but I'm never going to the NBA. You know what I'm saying?

That's right. You have to have some attributes. Right, there's like a personality trait that just is embedded in you from the time you're young for whatever the thing is that you love to do. Maybe it was like watching my folks. Maybe there was a lot of weird stuff. I was very good at math as a kid, like unusually good at math.

And I would do weird stuff. Like I count steps every time I knew every step in every place I went to, like would do weird stuff. Like I count steps every time. I knew every step in every place I went to. Like some rain man stuff. And when I would go, this is from the time I was like six, we go to Little Caesars, I'll never forget. I lived in Metro Detroit. And before they rang up the food,

I knew the percentage tax it would be. So when they did it, I would instantly say before I'd look and I know what my mom was gonna take on me, you're gonna get $16 and 18 cents. How did you know that and change? And it was like a weird, and it was like a weird thing that I got very good at. And I think the boom, dopamine hit, dopamine hit,

they would like that. And so it's ingrained where I was good at, again, people become the joker because there's some sort of dark thing in there, not everybody, but typically there's some, I don't to say trauma But you're not gonna be funny or amazing unless something happened in your life where you have a reason to be entertaining Right and so I think there's points in time where I could take people's minds off things and this was a great way to Do it and also magic people don't get to know you

They get to know the character the. So you get that nice little separation, which I learned at a young age was really like how to make rejection, fear of rejection, fear of failure, most people, that's their number one fear. And I learned at 14 how to make that gone, like eliminate that entirely. Interesting, that's interesting. It's also the dynamic of you being in control, which I think you talked about earlier,

I think is for whatever reason, imperative when you're speaking to people. You have to be in control for them to let you kind of guide everything. You don't want other people, you don't wanna ask questions and you have everybody like free to talk and have it be loose. No, I don't mind that.

No, I don't mind that, but if they do it when I want them to, right? It's like, again, so the best salespeople in the world aren't the used car sales, like, buy this, buy this. Nobody does well. The number one salesperson organization is the one who gets you to sell yourself. They're bending over backwards to be like,

I gotta do business with you, right? You get someone to the point where at the end, you don't have to hard close. Every organization I work for, and I go in there and like show you how to do sales training one-on-one, it's going to be the person who gets the other person to sell themself.

That's what you do. You lay the breadcrumbs into the trap. The trap is not a bad thing, but the same thing happens in my show. I am leading you in a certain direction. Watch, I'll show you something. How often is Jamie? Jamie, when I walked in, I talked to him for like two minutes, said he loves magic.

He does. Is that true? Is Jamie off mic? Yeah, what's up? He didn't know I was going to do this. You have daughters, correct? Yes. So it's hard.

I have three girls, two boys, and I found when I named our girls, well we named it together obviously, the naming of the girls was far harder than the boys. When you named your daughters, was it agreed upon? Were you like shortlisted? How did it go about? Well I feel like my wife did way more work than I did. Yeah, for sure. So she carries the baby in her body and I said listen, I would just want veto power. Veto. Where you can't name the kid

Applesauce or something fucking stupid. I go, I don't think it's a fair proposition. That's literally what I said. I said, and I don't give a fuck about names. And they've got your name for last name. My name is, right, it's right. And so does she. But my name is Joe. It's a boring-ass, stupid name. It doesn't bother me at all that I have the same name as a billion people. So for me, names don't mean anything,

and it meant something for her, so I said, you decide. So watch this. Do you know what the most common names are right now? I know this recently, I have like a two-week-old, but the most common names right now are not the same as when you were naming your daughters, is my guess, if they're teenagers. Do old, but the most common names right now are not the same as when you were naming your daughters, is my guess, if they're teenagers.

What do you know what the most common name right now in America, I think it's six years running. Mom. You can keep this up. No, no, for girls. For girls. What is it? No. Olivia. Olivia. Can you look up top 10?

That's a beautiful name. Look up, it just came out, Social Security. I know this because, like I said, we were trying to figure out names. Am I right? It should be Olivia's number one I'll Google top ten. Who do you think of when you think of Olivia? mmm, I Thought initially of Olivia Wilde. Who's Olivia Wilde movie star?

Do you know she's oh that lady yeah, oh she's great. Yeah, I thought of Olivia Newton John. Yeah, that's second That would have been second I've performed for a little while never Olivia Newton John. What did you get? Did you find out? Oh? Yeah, it's not a trick. I just want to see Olivia's number one Emma Emilia Charlotte Mia Mia Sophia Isabelle Evelyn yeah, that's interesting eight. I would have never imagined that right a Evelyn, that's interesting. Eight? I would have never imagined that. Right? You did not hear those names when you were growing up. There were probably no girls named Ava when you were a child. No, none of any of these names. Maybe Olivia after Olivia Newton John, but that's crazy.

Sophia is number ten. That's interesting. And Sophia is spelled two different ways, so it's technically number one. Jamie, if I ask you... Oh, that's right. It is it's dealt pH and F Wow Interesting that Sophia is number one really Huh Harper what's Harper 11 12? Camila Camila number 11 that's nuts Eleanor older names are coming back. Yep, really older names. Yeah, that's like Eleanor. It's like my friend Eleanor Kerrigan. She's in her 50s

You Eliana Eliana's number 18. They know that crazy What are the odds right? What are the odds that you told me is? Eliana in the top 20 of names of it shut the fuck up whose names are kid that Is Ileana in the top 20 of names of it shut the fuck up names are kid that Love that name it's not a bad name. It's a beautiful name, but it's like it's like I would have never thought it was that common So when you think of how this is happening watch this Jamie I ask you to come up with somebody absolutely random from your past

Absolutely random a Doug deep okay. You already got it. Yeah, you know what? How do you know this person not all you shouldn't have said that Preschool preschool something in preschool. Yeah, you still keep in touch. I met him. No, she said to him Why do you say him and then her sorry met them is what I guess I was trying to say This guy's playing the pronoun game. What's going on here? You know what? No, no, there's too many giveaways just said wasn't on the list doesn't this where let me ask you a question Let's try again. No, no, I'm do something better. We'll switch. This is a glitch in the matrix Jamie close your eyes Close your eyes. You got to look okay, so pretend you're closing your eyes. I'm going to put you on the spot. It's not the preschool girl.

I want you to close your eyes, go back in time, and try to picture the face. I always call this the one that got your first big crush. Can you visualize her face or you can't see her clearly? You asked me this before. It's a tough question because the way you started wording it was like, it's a tough question. The way you started wording it was like, is this a... First crush for me was the first person I knew. There was TV people and stuff like that.

Oh, is it a TV person? That's what it would have been technically, I guess. Your first crush was a TV person? Sure, someone I saw on TV. Is that right? I think so. Okay. I guess.

I don't know. I'm trying to... If I were to ask you to look up how popular this name is, well, no, I'm not gonna do it again. It's not top 10, is that correct? Right, it was. Okay, hold on, look this way at me. I want you, without using your fingers, to count the number of letters in this person's name.

The real name or the character's name? I don't know if that matters. I don't know, I've never had a fictional character as my first crush This guy got weird. I don't know whatever. I don't ever name you went with I don't say it out loud I'll go with the fictional don't say don't say no no don't meet what they weren't a real person then so you know Well, I don't know Don't tell oh man. Don't tell me don't give me more clues. I can figure it out good alright You know what do this Joe? I want you to see this should we get a piece of paper right down those mics everywhere, okay?

Screw it don't even write down don't even write down. No. No not you. I was gonna have him write it down, okay? Eight or nine do it do me a favor count again, but to yourself don't do it out loud count to yourself Yeah, don't do it out loud eight or nine what the letters yeah, don't do it out loud the eight or nine wasn't the letters But go ahead yeah So confused all right good. It's got all over the place. Jamie wants this to go wrong. It does I do I don't know if this the real name or the fake name anymore But before today and me asking you to think of this person be honest Would it have been days months or literally years before today since this person even crossed your thoughts?

Honestly, this would have been a couple months couple months couple months could Joe know it no all right mix up the letters and Stop like Scrabble tiles Freeze and grab out a letter somewhere in the name. Maybe grab one out of the middle. Okay, you got it sure He did to any switch No, no, you did shifty eyes. He did this one in this you didn't do a vowel. Did you I don't know Well, you can tell me it's you did a vowel after all that a EI. Oh, you look at me first I picked and you went to the end Do you think the last letter no the last The last letter is a vowel though isn't it?

Sometimes. It is. Here we go. Sometimes why? Yeah that's the only way. Take a look. Don't say it, don't say it. Okay. I don't know. This is, who knows? Was it nine letters? The name is nine letters long, isn't it? The real person's name is nine letters, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the real, and he hadn't thought of this person in months. It doesn't in a vowel. Yeah, it does, I know.

I saw it, I saw it, and you switched the one. And I wrote this down, Joe, you see it, right? I can't change it. No trick here. No BS What's her name this first crush saw on TV her real name is Christine Christine is what I wrote down Christine is what I wrote down Her fake name is Melody from hey, dude. You don't have to tell me I know Christine Taylor, how'd you know? There's this

Wait, wait, hold on right now right now. I want to try this here's one try Joe how many people? How many people just happen wait where did I put this are you an alien hold on do you work for the CIA? I gotta take a leak like crazy to do was all right is the bag dude I drank like two Gators before I got in here for the run. That was a mistake what bag there's a bag Oh, I didn't bring it didn't bring it. No. Don't you go pee? No, no, I've got I've got I've got got it, I've got it, I've got it. Look, I want you to do this. I put together, this is for you.

Joe, take these. Okay. 50 people, chat GPT. Okay. Look through that list. Okay. And these are all people, I didn't make this up, I just wrote them down. Okay. Who have been on the show multiple times. Right. And that, or, and that idea, how would I describe this? My guess is you have a personal connection.

You know these people. Is that a fair assessment? Rattle off. If there's anybody in there that you feel is not, fits the bill or you don't talk to them anymore, throw it away. I don't care. Okay.

Yeah, I know all these people. You know these people? Mm-hmm. Okay. Sure. Not a trick. I'm not gonna guess who it is. I wrote the list. I know who they all are You know these people? Mm-hmm. Okay. Sure. Not a trick. I'm not gonna guess who it is. I wrote the list.

I know who they all are. Got it. I don't care. You wanna mix them, you wanna do some, I don't care, whatever you wanna do. Okay. Once you mix them up or whatever you wanna do, put them in front of you, please.

Like a pile. Okay. Turn kinda, oh, you're not gonna look because I want them to be like random. Okay. Kind of put them in front of you. Okay. Kind of turn them sideways.

Turn them sideways? Well, I wanna see what you're doing. Okay. And I think we're gonna do this together. I? Well, I want to see what you're doing. Okay. And I think we're going to do this together. I don't know if I'm going to reach over now. Okay. Here's what I want you to do. Okay.

I want you to take, I'm going to do it with you, is I want you to lift off like a chunk. A chunk, okay. Yeah, like a chunk and put the chunk over. Over here? No, no, no, like next to you. Okay. Like, I don't know.

How do I, can I move over with the mic or no? Yes, come over here. Yeah Take the headphones off Take this okay And I want you to take and the same way that I'm making a bunch of chunks like this Uh-huh. I want you to take and I want you to be in charge. So take these ones. Okay, and would you agree? That's pretty randomized very randomized Okay, and I want to assess right now. There's five of them

Okay, is take one of the piles okay, and put it like which other pile you going with another pile like point to another one Okay, this one. Yeah perfect, and I want you don't show me okay I want you like grab that one All right the card the card on top now wherever you want take it grab it and look at that person's name Okay, and don't let me see it how likely if you were to text this person Do you think would they answer 100% oh you sure yeah 100% Most of the list was a guy guys. Is it a guy? Yeah, okay? Not judging a lot of dudes on the show put them all back together

Okay, let's assess this. I don't know who it is I don't care who it is as long I want to see and if they're not gonna answer I would tell you to text somebody new text this person in your own words and say I don't know Got a minute need a favor and see if he texts back if he doesn't we go to in somebody new We'll give it like I don't know 15 20 minutes, okay text back if he doesn't we go to in somebody new we'll give it like I don't know 15 20 minutes okay can I tell him what's going on I would hedge and not say yet because I want to see where he goes with it because if you tell him like I I don't care but I want to I want to keep this very I don't want him to

know where we're going yet okay should I tell him text me back right yeah I guess text me back that works hey brother do me a favor and text me back? Yeah, I guess text me back. That works. Hey brother, do me a favor and text me back as soon as you get this. It's gonna sound like someone's dying, but okay. The world depends on it. Alright, and put it down. We'll revisit later. Pressures. Let's see. Let's check back in a few minutes. Will it vibrate if you did?

No, I have it on do not disturb, but I'll take it off. There we go. Okay. Um, he's very busy, so he might not be in front of his phone. No worries. If it doesn't go, we'll give it some time, and if not, we'll switch gears. Okay. But turn your phone face down so you don't think I can see it. I don't want to know who what where. Okay. Alrighty. We'll revisit. We'll come back. I'll put turn your phone face down. So you don't think I can see it I don't want to know okay who what where already we'll revisit. We'll come back on my lap So I feel it when it vibrates. I'm all p later. I'm holding it in though. I knew the Joe Rogan effect

Okay We're just gonna sit here and wait for no no no we'll check back in later seems ridiculous is it yeah Because he could be working out it could be doing anything so if we get it it's meant to be this, we'll check back in later. That seems ridiculous. Is it? Yeah, because he could be working out, doing anything. So if we get it, it's meant to be. This is, we'll see. Okay. It's not, it's not pressing. You have an idea who it is?

I don't know. I can look through the list again. It's not Cam Haines, is it, after you said all that? Is someone popping into your head? I'm not going to guess who it is. Not at all? No, because here's the reason why. If we reveal stuff, I don't want you to.

If I guess like something very specific about this person that will like he might not want everyone to know his ATM pin code or Social Security number oh you're gonna guess I don't know what I'm gonna do yet but I don't want you could tip it but he's gonna be pretty pissed if everybody finds out something so I prefer if nobody knows yet but if we want to you'll see okay okay take it to the next level Jamie's in the room right but what if we just get anyone'll see. Okay. Okay. Take it to the next level. Jamie's in the room. Right. But what if we could just get anyone

who you could have picked, anybody you know. Right. Now it's different. Right. Now it's never been done before. Right. You asked me what do I wake up with, thinking about? How could I do this?

Yeah, how are you gonna do this? I don't know, let's see if it works. Let's see if it works. So, okay, oh, you got me. He did? Yeah. Okay, here's the thing. I think that if I were you, I'd say later, well, texting, what if somebody saw something?

No, no, no, I haven't, I don't give any clues yet. If you're, there's microphones everywhere. We just asked him to think of his first crush, but he did like someone fictional and like, that's a- Can I tell him I'm in the middle of a show? Maybe say I'm in the middle of a show. Okay. Okay. And say we're doing a bit.

Do you want to call him because if you're texting this do you want to call him or do you want to text him? Well if I call him people are going to hear his voice. No but what if you call him and you just go over there. Which one's better to you? Which one's more impossible? Where later you go there's just no freaking way. Is it better if he texts you or is it better if he calls you? What do you think is just more impossible? I

Could have him call me. Yeah, why not do this have him call you in a second You'll go over there where there's no microphone and I want you to ask this guy the same question. I asked Jamie do you remember the name of the first girl? you had a big crush on and Sometimes people don't remember. I just want you to know I've done this a lot. I asked him that not yet I would do it on the phone. Okay, yeah screw it ask him that okay, dude Okay, I Should just did it with voice no no cuz then oh yeah

Nobody's listening to this. I'm sure no, but I mean it's quicker Don't tell me what he says okay if he says no a lot of people don't remember this question, okay So then I hedge and I go well who's the first girl you ever kissed let's, but make sure there's absolutely no way I can see what's on your phone right now We can't see boom get that tight. You can't see bitch Okay, mad, okay Does he know he doesn't know he knows? Yep. Did he tell you? Yep. No shit Yep, ask him. Is it the same as the first girl he ever kissed? Okay. See what he says.

Here we go. No. Does he remember her name too? Okay. Here we go. Yep. Two weeks ago, right? No, I'm kidding. Put away.

You have two names in your head. Okay. Can we establish the fact that you have 50 people that have been on your show? Yes. That you took anybody? Right. If this person would have texted back, text somebody else. I don't care who it is.

Right. There is no conceivable way. This isn't a bank that gave you a number. Right. And if he didn't know who it is, we would have done something different. I don't care. Put the phone away.

Okay. How am I gonna do this? How are you gonna do this? How am I gonna do this? Right? And he said, what happens when it goes wrong? Nothing. I'm not getting paid to be here.

I don't care. You're freaking me out Think of both names. They're different. He had two different people. Yes the same way that you did 2020 and you didn't know think of both names and I want to juggle back and forth between the two the first kiss in the first crush, okay, and Is one name more interesting to you or like they're equal or is one anymore interesting or not really? Not really. Okay, so you know like if you gravitate I would have been like go to one. Okay

Count the number of letters in the first crush to yourself. Don't use your fingers I can see count the number of letters to yourself for the first crush. I do those like you out. Yeah, I started doing those and Then count the number of letters in the first kiss. Oh, you looked up. Interesting. They're not equal. Can you agree with me? They're not the same amount of letters, are they?

No they're not. No, see, because you would have had the same reaction. Do you know when you put somebody in a polygraph test? Have you ever been polygraphed? No. They can't just ask you the questions right away They can't because they first have to get your benchmark same way blood doping you got to test someone's blood against their blood People have different amounts of testosterone naturally

So I had to see how you would do each one. Mm-hmm And then you did the thing with the eyes that throw me off the crush, is that name shorter than the first kiss? Yes. Yeah. Go to the first crush. I'm gonna go with that one. Less work for me. Okay. One more time. Count the letters. Okay. And you were trying to avoid it.

Six letters. Is that name six letters? Yes. Yeah. Mix up all the letters. Okay. In that first crush's name. Forget the first kiss, scrap it. Okay. Pick any one in your head. You got one?

Got it. Jamie gave me a gift on a platter, thought of a vowel. When he did that, it was 100% you wouldn't pick a vowel later. You didn't do a vowel in the name, did you? No. Dude, I'm here for a reason, right? I haven't done this, I've been doing this for a long time. Right.

Told you, goal is to be the best in the world at this. I have watched, I know everything you just did, second letter. Do you think that's second letter? I will. Mmm. M. Amanda. Is the name Amanda? Yes.

What the fuck did you just do? And you will talk about this for years. Hold on a second, I'm texting him back. Can you figure out the second one? No I'm done man, come on. Showbiz, you do your closer, you drop the mic and you pick the mic back up? Never. Do you want to know who it was?

No, I don't want to know. My friend said you're a witch. And he said kill him now. I feel like I know who it is. Definitely a comedian, definitely a comedian after that. It's definitely a comedian. My friend said you're a witch and he said kill him now Comedian definitely a comedian after that. It's definitely a comedian might not be a lot of weird people. Yeah, I Don't know how to go back to conversation mode am I right? I got pissed like a racer. What do I do go pee go pee? No, do we keep going do we go strong with this? No, I'm just saying. We'll re-calibrate. We definitely can pee. It's always easier to pee. Is that alright? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's perfect because you don't want to...

It's too hard to form sentences when you have to pee. Alright, I'm gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back. Rapid fire. Are we back? We're back. Woof! Lightning. I feel like brand new. Yeah, I know the feeling. I was sitting on it. You rehydrate. And I drank so much Gatorade right before. And I was like, oh, party foul. Should have thought that went through. You ran 27 miles. You deserve a little Gatorade. So do you want to know who it was yet?

It's up to you. I like hanging thread, but it's up to you. But what is the purpose of hanging the thread? No, I guess tell us at the end. Can you tell me who it is? I could, but come on. What do you think it is? No, I'll tell you at the end. OK. You already who it is? I could, but come on. What do you think it is? No, I'll tell you at the end.

Okay. You already gave the comedian, you said this. I didn't say comedian, you said comedian. No, it's a comedian. He's a witch, kill him, 100%. All right, I... 100%, that's not Ben Shapiro, you know what I'm saying? I just say witch.

Did he tell you? No, no, no. I took the quickest pee of my life. I raced over there. No, I didn't tell him shit. You didn't tell him? No, I don't want him to know. Curious, do you think that there's people that knew this shit back in the days of

witches they figured out some of the powers maybe? I think that a hundred percent psychics of the past used a lot of the same techniques I'm using because when I watch psychics and I have people always tell me at certain things they tell me like oh you know I saw psychic do this and this and this and I hear it and I go to myself you know I could do that same trick and I could no offense do it better But think about it. I'm doing this right now from with an ethical compass versus if I go Oh, I'm getting this and I thought about this and this is what happened with your dad You're like, oh my god, you know, I'm a gold only 25 grand more to have a private session

Let's talk to him a little bit more I'm not saying there's nobody psychic. I'm telling you that a lot of the psychics that I'm watching them like, I know how you're doing that. That was my other question. It's gonna be, have you caught anyone trying to get some stuff by you? Like, I don't know. Like a psychic, you mean? Not a psychic, you're buying a car

and someone's trying to pull some trickling. Like, I know what you're about to do here. Well, a hundred percent. You know, not a shameless plug, but like I literally write, I wrote a book, it's coming out in October, where it's all about, it's called Read Your Mind. And it's not me telling you how to be a mentalist because 99.9% of people don't want to guess a first crush.

It's not useful to you in your life. But what if you could read people more effectively to help you in your life, at home, at work, in relationships? That is a quantifiable thing that the tools of a mentalist when not used for entertainment, in life day to day are Extraordinary for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you must be great at all kinds of things because of this I don't know anything dealing with human beings right negotiating. Oh, I've never sold the property of the loss

Let's just say that it's been pretty good so far You get in there. You're like, I won't take a dollar less. I'm like, I know you will I know you will That's funny. What a weird skill to have. Right? What's a good book? A good book? To read on this.

Well, on becoming a mentalist or? Yes, and any of these skills. Like, what did you start with? Do you remember the book you started with? Do you mean if you want to learn how to do mentalism? Do you remember the book that you started with when you first started learning this stuff? So the first book you started with? Do you mean if you want to learn how to do mentalism? Do you remember the book that you started with when you first started learning this stuff? So the first book I started reading

was a book called 13 Steps to Mentalism, but man is it gonna be tough for most people because it was written in the 1920s, so it's kind of like, you know, it's like watching an old movie, no offense to old movies, but I'm like, oh, it's hard to get into this with my attention span now because it's antiquated. Some of it still applies, but you have to really do a big reach to know how do I apply this

because back then there were no TVs or no phones there's no it's just that's what I started with but I had to learn the hard way. So much of what I do now is again I told you is I don't really do what other people do because I don't explain it's they create create different, right? If you were building a house and you have all these tools, you're gonna build using your tools. Does that make sense? So I've got this set of tools.

I knew a hammer does this, I do that. I create what the house already built. So my vision again, and why, what's been a differentiating feature is I build with that person at the end in mind. And I already know what the house is gonna be, I know what the memory, I know what you're gonna say. Like CNBC, do you ever watch that channel?

I try not to. Right? So CNBC Fox Business are financial channels. I have been on those channels dozens of times. How many other mentalists or magicians have ever been on them? Zero. Why is that?

Because it's unusual, that's a serious network. Why do you put me on? Because I do stuff around the markets. And so if you're watching it, you buy in because my stuff's about stock market, interest rates, all stuff. And it's like, this is crazy, but it had to do with stuff I know.

So the same thing, when I do ESPN, I'm creating from a different perspective than most. I customize the content. Like when I do a corporate event, I learn in and out your business. And when I go up there, I sneak in the medicine. So now you're actually, your people aren't just seeing a show, they're getting messaging

and they're getting it in a way where they don't tune out because they don't realize they're being spoken to. It's mostly entertainment. But boom, I've planted those thoughts and you leave there with, you know, what's the product launch? What's this? All those things are now internalized and remembered And this 13 steps that was said it was written in the 1920s fact check me, but I think it was the 20s

What did this guy do? What was his job? He was a mentalist. Yeah, but there were no mentalist back then There was just a few people but there was mostly they were telling you the skills of psychics They were showing you how psychics did stuff and it wasn't really debunking But they're showing you all the tools the 13 steps like what are the ways? That we can read people more effectively and what are the tricks of the trade of what we do? Mm-hmm, right? Like how do you? Know when someone's counting something like that, right and you're counting the letter You know, you know because to, you might as well be playing drums.

Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, if you're playing drums and I have an ear for it, I can hear the beats. So once you learn how to do certain things, they build on top, I can, if you're counting letters, like again, names are anywhere from three to 12 letters. It's not rocket science for me to figure it out. And again, I can't do it in a vacuum.

If you turned your back and said, I'm not, nope, not doing anything, not, again, if you control the environment, I can't do it in a vacuum if you turned your back and said I'm not no I'm not doing anything not again If you control the environment, I can't do it as well, right? It goes back to that fear thing if I started messing up right now You'd be like, well, it's getting awkward and you would pull back and I wouldn't be in control anymore right like a lot of what I'm doing is is I'm You know showing you how I can read you but but also you're allowing yourself to be read. Right, so like when you're saying count the letters,

you can see me counting them. I can see when you're counting, I can see when you try to throw me off the count. It's like a poker player. Poker player knows if you really have aces, pocket aces, or you have two four and you're bluffing, the best ones do. Which brings the question up, why don't I play poker more?

Yeah, why don't you play poker?? I think yeah, why don't I poker? It's just it's too boring like I That's a grind man, I'd rather make money doing this one and a half speed. Yeah, your whole life is one and a half speed That's wild. That's really interesting. I'm fascinated. No, I think I want to read one of those books I'm gonna probably get that one. I'm gonna send you one. I'll try and find a better one Well, that one seems interesting too because I want to read the origins. I want to read it like when it first started out. Yeah. What was it like in 1920? Like what did he learn and where did he learn it? Yeah, 50 ish or so. Oh 19 well, but it's also not known. This is the guy? Yeah, so he's born in 1930.

Oh, I screwed this up. It was in 1920. So no, the ones 13 steps There's another one by Theodore and he did not make his birthplace public. Oh you fucking sneaky bitch. He's a sneaky bitch She's the first mentalist and he's sneaky though is believed to have been Mill Hill suburb of London for unknown reasons He renamed himself Tony Cornita Core Corinda Tony Corinda So he's born Thomas William Simpson and he renamed himself for some reason Tony Corinda, a variation of the surname Conraddy, when he began working as a mentalist. In 1950 he opened up a shop where he sold all manner of stage magic goods but catered especially to mentalists. He later took over the magic shop on Oxford Street. The shop was at street level and thus catered mainly to the

regular public, so that many of the items sold were either practical jokes or beginner's tricks. But items for semi-professional magicians and hobbyists were also sold. Around the same period, Corinda had the Magic Concession in Hambly's Toy Shop on Regent Street.

Interesting. So the book, 13 Steps to Mentalism, was in 1961. So he wrote a series of 13 booklets on mentalism between 56 and 58, each one dealing with a different aspect of mentalism or allied art. Interesting. I'm getting you a copy. I am. I'll buy it. Is it reprinted or is it one of those? No, it's definitely reprinted. And see, it's since come to be the essential mentalism reference book. But again, you're going to have a big problem because you're going to read that book, and if you make it through to the end, which God bless you if you can,

you're going to be like, yeah, but how the hell did you do all this stuff? It's not going to, you're going to get to the end of it and be like, so it's, that's baby steps. And then you've got to like, yeah, get to the next level. Oh, sure. I'm sure. I'm not thinking I'm going to get all the information from that. But I'm curious as to like what the origins of it was like how did this guy devise these things like how did he figure it? Out so it's again people with psychics want to believe anyone who's in that room who paid that money to hear psychic has someone They've lost and they want something with them because there's you know, do you believe in any psychic powers at all? So again, I'm not like a debunker because I'm kind of like agnostic in this thing Something with them because there's you know do you believe in any psychic powers at all so again?

I'm not like a debunker because I'm kind of like agnostic in this thing Which is I just believe what I've seen so far and in a lot of instances I've never personally experienced something that I couldn't explain yet, but a lot of people have told me their experiences Have you heard of the telepathy tapes? Yeah, so that I? Know you had her in here, but that's, have you watched the videos? I mean, come on. Yeah, that's wild. No, no, I'm the opposite.

I do not think that's real. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Oh, really? No. Why? Well, have you watched? Tell me about what the videos, can we show the videos? Well, I don't know, if you've got the paywall,

again, I don't want it controversial, but they're holding in many instances in that form of communication, person knows the information is holding the letters Do you understand I'm saying so right now if I had shown you a word and you're either touching somebody Right, you could get you know what a two-person code act is. No, so two-person code act is like a mentalist thing with two people There's a few that are the best in the world, Avacyn's, Mind2Mind in Dubai, like a few really good ones who've done this.

And what they do is they can be blindfolded in a different area and anything you hand to them, anything you say, the other person knows it. No electronics, no nothing. They just look at your credit card and they'll guess the credit card numbers. And what the way that's being done is they're communicating to each other based on pauses, on like a million ways that you can think of it's the best codect ever without speaking and you'll watch it and you'll Be like there's no way they're communicating but they are and so it looks like telepathy But it's not you get them in the room with scientists. You'll fool every scientist under the sun What they're doing is like not bulletproof at all with the kids and again, God bless if I had a child in that condition

I for not one moment wouldn't want a solution and I would want something to know that they're not that they're in there and I Could talk them and I don't want to speak out of turn but from the videos I've seen I can explain that in a minute They're they are moving things around and positioning the letters if you do a double blind study where the person does not know the word That they're trying to communicate. I'm even saying psychic just don't tell them the word the person does not know the word that they're trying to communicate. I'm not even saying psychic. Just don't tell them the word, the person holding it, and only show the word to the person who should be saying it, right?

If you're the autistic child, show them the word so that I see it, and then have them type that word in, and do that for me nine out of 10 times. And they've not been able to do that. That's not even psychic. That's just show me that you can type the word in that you saw. And so when you do like a deep dive on that, it's been... She offered to have someone come in with their parent and do that. Would you do that with

us? Sure. So you could like show how to do it? But I don't want to take anyone's hope away. I'm a parent and like, again, I don't think they're making money on it. And I like no I'm very I don't like Again, when you ask me psychics, there's people had real deep experiences and who is it for me to take that away? But when I watch that and you're like talking to somebody who's a pro at doing this same as psychics I can see exactly how that's done. But what did you think about their ability to read languages? They've never studied

So again, you're missing it. So that's again, the devil's in the details. Okay. It's the memory, what you remember of the story. Show me how they did that. Well, did either of the people there present know that language who was doing it? And how was that being communicated? Did the end person who's moving the board around

know what the meaning of the word was? Do you understand what I mean? Yes. So like again, you're hearing the, the Cliff's notes, the end edition, watch the video and show me something that I can't, there was nothing I saw in that special or that in that telepathy tape in the videos that I couldn't readily explain.

Really? That's correct. Interesting, very interesting. So could it be right? Yes, I'm not saying it's not. I'm not, again, they could be 100% right and I could be 100% wrong, hubris. I haven't been in the room with them.

I'm judging simply from videos I've seen. But as someone who is for a living, pretending to read people's minds, but I'm actually reading people, I can see how it's being done. The method, it's kind of like a casino boss. I see how that person's cheating when they're playing cards because I know all the cheating methods interesting

The other thing that they said was these kids all have this area that they go to called the hill Yep, they go to their met. What do you think of that? So again, I heard it It was unbelievable like the podcast was incredible. I don't know. I don't like I you know I've heard psychics tell me people tell me I psychic, and how do you know that my friend died after we saw Grateful Dead concert? And then I'm like, well, I don't know, I'm seeing a lot of stuff on you that looks Grateful Dead vibes.

Like, if I told you that you're a big Roger Waters fan, you'd be like, how did you know that right now? So for everyone not looking, Joe's wearing a Pink Floyd shirt. Like, you can figure out a lot of stuff based on cold reading. I can see what's the wear on your wedding band? How do you behave?

What are certain things? When do you pause at a certain moment about certain things? Did you lose someone? I can tell instantly if you're having a feeling of emotion. Anyone good at this, and not even great, but good, can notice a lot of things. Like a psychic just watches you. So you can kind of tell what a person's done that day?

Well, I think you can guide them to what you want Which is when you get a hit right think of that game when you're a kid hot cold you hide stuff right right your brother sister Looks around they go cold. Do you think I woke up early today or late? I don't know There's no on-demand feature to the show. I think you woke up early though. Really? Yeah. Why do you think that? I don't know just based on what you said it. Mmm nope. Nope. Good. I got it wrong. I'm happy. You'll be like we screwed this guy. Finally we got owes and it was with a 50-50. Yeah that was just a rando. Coin flip. Yeah that was a can. You know what we'll do a coin flip before I leave. Okay. Who has coins anymore? I brought one coin. I heard that there's a penny that's in circulation

that's worth millions of dollars. I heard that too. Yeah, that wheat penny? Yeah. The one with the wheat on the side of it? My buddy Lewis Howes had it. I saw that on my social. He found one.

Really? I think so. Whoa. It's fucking super valuable. With millions. I'd be like, you give me that wheat penny. That's crazy. A penny worth millions.

Okay, so what's in the one that's sealed, that package? No, that's nothing. I was gonna get it out, but I'll do it later. It was a gift. Is it later? No, it's something silly. Why do I not believe you? No, I swear.

I swear. I thought I would have it out, but no. You thought you'd have it out, but you don't want to have it out? Not the right fit. What do you mean? No, I was gonna do something. You had a lot of books here, and I thought we'd get a get a book but like yeah, I don't think I'm gonna do it Just doesn't feel right. No, what feels wrong self-curie. I don't know. It's not gonna work

It's not you gotta go on in six not gonna work. It's not gonna work. Nope What was the goal to get it to work? You could say it now since we're not gonna do it The goal to get it to work was I thought I had some sort I thought I know if I get you to get a book we have have less books in this room, we have books in that room, I just... I don't know. I brought it in, I always have a backup plan. Plan A, B, C. And this one's not meant for this one. This one might be if I ever come back and do another JRE. We'll put it in the safe. Okay.

Okay. Do it! Okay. That's a great idea. Yeah, we'll put it in the safe. Put it in the safe. I'll never touch it again. Okay, we won't touch it either. Let's make sure that we know it's sealed. You know two bricks of cocaine. You're in big trouble I know. We should get a wax seal. Yeah, you know like Game of Thrones style. Let's do it. Seal it

I love that show Great show. Yeah, we can't play this but I found one of the tapes that someone put on YouTube Do you want to it's only a one-minute? All right, let's watch it for us. Let's watch it for us We can't play it to it's only a one-minute alright, let's watch it for us. Let's watch it for us We can't play it because it's copyright Okay, if you right now got the best two-person codec in the world in here, they would do nothing She would literally be in another she could be a hundred feet away behind this person's back because she's touching doing Touching moving. I mean like those are for letters. You only have 26 options Do you have any idea what this is right there? Somebody effective right now, just this right now,

and pausing and before they say a word could have given you a full credit card number. Right. Insane. She was kind of moving him a little bit. Moving him. Like if you could, if you can, how do you compress data, right? Like if you do hexadecimal or ASCII,

you could take a 16 digit number and break it down into three letters. Do you ever see the movie The Martian? Yes. Great movie, right? Another Matt Damon reference. Yeah. Love Matt Damon, by the way.

Me too. Has he been on here? No. Such a good dude. Yeah, I talked to somebody about getting him on. Like he was going to reach out. We're going to do it eventually. I'm sure.

I love that guy. I love him. He's awesome. Met him a couple times. Love him. As nice as you'd expect. So if you can, in that movie, in The Martian, he didn't know how to send data because he only had the camera so he shows a thing where he figured out how to take And compress big things in a small what's the easiest way you can make it very small so you can send information in a certain way again I don't want to blow in its cover, but there is absolutely when I see that I know exactly how it's being done

But I don't know if she's doing it on purpose. I think they've just learned each other's rhythms, and that's an agent Oh, okay, go you know like you gotta have her in a different room, right right right read my mind read my mind through a door Haven't they done stuff in a different room though didn't she Kai Dickens didn't she said In particular that another magician actually told me that they had a issue watching that particular kids videos They thought that those two were doing something funny. Yep clearly But that's right the other videos. I don't nuts nuts they're behind a paywall you have to get to them That's it. That's the sneaky biz is everyone that sees the paywall I had a couple sent to me and I'm like because people asked me this and they were like, yeah

What do you think man? And I listened to all the tapes I thought it was amazing it get a little wild at the end if you got to the end Like the hill and that and you want to believe who doesn't want to believe that there's psychics amongst us And especially kind of like the superhero story of all These are kids who nobody thought was in there and they're really in there and they're communicating with each other It's it's I mean, so it's essentially you're saying that instead of psychic energy There's a sense of like a kind of micro communication You know what and there's simple want to believe and so you kind of confirmation bias. You know what? Very simple. And people want to believe, and so you kind of have confirmation bias,

looking at the evidence. You want to believe. Kai Dickens clearly wanted to believe. Just super simple. You have a mentalist and maybe a scientist involved. And a mentalist is better than a scientist, because scientists, they can watch me and they'll be like, I don't know how he's doing it.

Right? Right. We're designed. We're literally, it's like get a card sheet to beat other card sheets. Right. So get me involved Yeah, and then let's do the same thing and I'm gonna say here are the three things I need you to do different and I'm not gonna say how you're doing it

But do with these three things if you do that, I'm convinced. Mmm. Okay, we might have to set this up. Yeah, I Want if it but the problem is is that exact? There's very little to gain from that And then also we got bad energy in the room, right? That's the whole thing. You ever see when Uri Geller was debunked by the amazing Randy on Johnny Carson and he couldn't bend the spoons. He goes, I can't do it with him here.

He's got bad energy. It's not, and it's like, you know, is it bad energy or is this a guy who knows how you're bending the spoons? And so every time you're about to do a move, he's like a SOB. He was like, stop right there. Don't move your hand. Keep the spoon right there.

Don't, no, no, don't look away. Look, it's like like it's like my nightmare. I had a guy show me how they do the spoons Yeah, we had a guy demonstrate magic needles. I could show you how to do this one Yeah, and it was like a different kind of spoon. It wasn't a regular spoon. No, no, you could do with real spoons I could do any spoon. Yeah. Yeah, you could bend it with your mind I mean again, I don't want to knock it but that's more of a it's not really it's not a psychic power that falls more into the category of a magic trick where you're misdirecting people, you're doing something else where I'm not really

bending a spoon with my mind. There's not supernatural powers involved. I can't lie to you and say that. I'm doing it in such a way where you don't know the method and it's layered, but it's sure gonna look like it's bending by itself, but it's sure gonna look like it's bending by itself But it's not this guy was saying that's a kind of metal that as he moves his hand around he heats it up Yeah, he's lying to you

He lied because he didn't want to tell me how he doesn't know yeah Yeah got me again got you You must enjoy getting people though, I like people I lights in your face when you're accurate is really fun to watch I hope it's it's contagious, but I enjoy watching reactions. Yeah, clearly that's the rush right laughs Do not love laughs, of course Yeah, you ever go into a room and nobody's laughing and you just bomb and you just eat it It's like not fun. How often do you bomb anymore? New jokes bomb. So you bomb for chunks, you bomb in segments.

You have to figure out how a bit works. And sometimes you try a bit in a way like in the middle of it, like, ooh, this is not the way. And then you have to kind of adjust. And you're doing a lot of sets at the mothership, I assume? Yeah, yeah. And how much do you get allowances? What's the clock for being Joe Rogan

before it's like, oh no, let's just see if you're funny as a person. Where does that end? You gotta be funny pretty quick. You think so? Yeah, people are good for like a minute. They're happy to see you for like a minute. It's only a minute, huh?

Yeah, not much time, man. Jerry Seinfeld talked about that once. He's like, being famous buys you about 30 seconds. Oh, I thought it's more. I think that's what he said. No, no. Especially on a night filled with really top notch comedians, which is the mothership every night.

It's all a bunch of killers. So you got to be. But that's also why we do it that way. The one thing that's really bad for comedians is when they start only doing their crowds. So they do it on the the road and they do large places and then they have the same opening act over and over again. So they're never challenged.

Right. Yeah, that makes people soft 90% of the time. Yeah. I made that number up. Yeah, 95. But it's like a high number, you know, cause you get soft. Right. Yeah.

I did, this is funny. So I used to go to the comedy cellar. I told you, I love comedy, like a fish and auto. I lived in the village for, I don't know, years. And this is pre-kids, a lot more time in my hands. We used to go to the cellar when you could get in the cellar like that. Now, good luck.

Right. And we would see just everybody over and over. And I think you met him on, Mike Vecchione? Sure. So good, man. Very funny guy, great guy. Oh, God, so great guy, amazing. Super funny.

And he went on on a night where it was just like dropping, dropping, dropping, and he had to follow Seinfeld, and Seinfeld goes on and just hammers it. And then Mike Vecchione comes on, and you know the bathroom in the cellar, right? Which is about the size of like a quarter of this table, where you're touching arms when you're taking a leak next to some dude.

I went in there and I was quite drunk and I'll never forget this. I've worked with Mike Zins and I was telling him, dude, you probably don't remember me, but I was such a drunk idiot. And we were touching arms while we're peeing and I always felt bad about them. I'm so drunk, I'm like, dude, forget Seinfeld.

You killed it. He's like, stop talking to me while we're peeing. I had crossed that threshold. And I tried to ask him, like, cause talking to me while we're peeing, dude. I had crossed that threshold. And I tried to ask him, I'm like, cause we did a gig together and he opened for me and I was like, do you, is there any chance you remember?

He's like, dude, so many drunk idiots have been next to me at the cellar telling me stuff. I'm like, the night where you dropped, you know, that trying to see if you remember it. And I wanted to apologize for it cause I felt so bad. And I'm like, I was talking to you while you're pissing. And dude, I just loved you so much. And I'm like, I was talking to you while you're pissing and dude, I just loved you so much

And he forgot he didn't even know this moment You know, I'm a drug but I'm like I've been holding this weight for a while Mike and I'm a big fan and I'm sorry. I talked to while we both had our dicks out There's a line in the sand that I have just crossed brother that's hilarious and he forgot about it He didn't know dude I mean it's like when I have gigs where people come back to me three years later, like, dude, do you remember this thing? And I go, of course I do, yes. No, most of the time you don't remember.

You try, I remember the best and the worst, man. I remember some moments where I've bombed so bad that it is seared in your DNA. You know that feeling? And it's usually ones where you're not to blame, but the buck stops here. You know what I'm saying? Like where the setup is terrible, the outdoor gig.

I had one where, God, it was like the town of Charlotte or some town hired me, some city. And I had to insert all these data points about the city. And we're like, normally we do two or three things. I will mention two or three things in the course of a show. And if it's 10 minutes, forget it. I don't wanna be a salesperson up there. People tune out if they're like,

what are you selling me something right now? And I had to say eight or nine things about the town of, was it Charlotte? And at the last moment we do dress rehearsal, we'll go, by the way, we're all dressing as genies and we're gonna have a life-size genie lamp on stage, and it's gonna start doing smoke while you're doing this. I'm like, I don't really like any of these things,

but I was newer to show up as I'm like, I go with it. The whole time I'm on stage, the smoke is going like at 100%. We're coughing, it's going terrible. I can't see the person whose mind I'm reading. I'm sweating, I'm trying to talk about the Billy Graham Museum. I'm dying a slow death up there. I get two things in a row wrong.

And you know, if you bomb your opener and your closer, like you're dead. I left apologizing. You never wanna leave a stage apolo- They somehow still loved it. I don't even know how, but I sweated through that suit. It was like, you know when you question what you're doing in life. It was like, you know when you question

what you're doing in life? Yeah. That was like a question. I'm like, maybe I'm not supposed to be doing this. Well, also you probably say, okay, never doing that kind of setup again. Kind of, but me, I'm more catastrophize and I'm like, yeah, I should just be done.

But then I came back. I came back, I picked myself up. Yeah, funny enough, tomorrow's one of my daughter's fifth birthday and I'm doing a show at school for five-year-olds. Oh wow. Yeah man, I gotta get back. But sweetheart, this is like the sweet spot where they still think I'm cool.

That's cool. Before I'm gonna be like, don't do this and embarrass us, dad. And last year for my oldest son, who was at the time had just turned eight, I did his school second graders and dude, they ate me alive. Really? Because I'm not doing this. Like this is, you know, my sweet spot is mentalism.

I had to brush it off the dust of my kids show, which I haven't touched in like 25 years. Thank God I'm not doing kids shows anymore. No offense to kids show magicians, but like that ship has sailed. And man, second graders are ruthless. Really? Ruthless.

Why second graders? Because I don't know, man. Like one kid, I finished this show, okay, and during the show my wife is in the room recording. I'm like, don't record, don't record. And I had to like look at my wife at one point and I whispered, this is a nightmare. Because one kid's like, it's in your hand,

show me that, show me that. And I'm like, dude, shut up, shut up. And I'm not good at it. I haven't done it in a while. Right. So I'm just bombing on tricks. And thankfully 95% of the crowd actually liked it. It was just these two kids who just got me.

When I went home, one of my neighbors saw me and he goes to me, he goes, oh my God, what's wrong? Are you okay? Cause my face was like ash and white. He thought somebody died. And I'm like, dude, I don't, I'm like dude I don't I don't you know I don't even know what to say right now like I maybe I shouldn't be doing this I had to one point tell the teacher. I'm like, I'm actually like I'm I actually do this for a living

I'm really trying to flex. I'm like I have an Emmy like I No, I'm not actually this bad like I That's a Larry yeah, that's hilarious. Do you think comedy is kind of a bit of hypnotizing people? Oh yeah. The best comedians, the pacing, the rhythm. I was watching a Tom Segura special this morning. I don't know how well you know his material. I mean, you know him well. But he had a bit about flying first class. Do you remember that one?

I don't. He talks about, I don't think he's using The material anymore the fact that he gets upgraded he buys coach tickets It was early was years ago And he gets upgraded so much that he gets first-class tickets and he go should I not say this bit? I don't know if I want to say it and he goes it literally the moment I get upgraded this feeling of superiority Washes over me. Where I'm like, when people are walking,

don't look at me you poor piece of shit. Like he's just so, he goes, I dare you, if you're in coach to try to use my bathroom if I'm in the front, I will put my hand on your chest, bro. I've seen that a hundred times and it's just as funny, if not funnier every time I watch it. And it's like the timing, the rhythm. I learned more from comedy than ever magic or mentalism way more interesting

Because we've talked about it a bunch comics I'm like I think we're hypnotizing people because I feel hypnotized when someone's killing when someone's killing I'm allowing them to think for me Yep, you're like they're taking me on a ride, and I'm just I'm not thinking at all about what would I say? What would I do? I'm just in their head or they're in my head. Right, and also when you bring someone along and when you have that like, just, you drop just amazing line, like, just there's so many, I mean,

listen, I consume so much comedy, but like I love watching the rhythm, seeing where people go with it, the people that are more short form, like punch delivery, right? Versus like a long form like a Nate Bargot see like you're watching Andrew do his things shawls amazing man Some of these guys are just like you can't see where the joke is gonna come and how you just Squeeze every bit of juice out of the orange and the good callbacks. I think that ultimate hypnotist is David tell

Yeah, oh, yeah Dave Dave because David there's a rhythm. There's a rhythm the way He's like you just get lost in his thinking right and he just takes you on the chain He's so effortless and he does so many sets like he's so polished that there's like this Effortlessness to his movements and the rhythm and everything. It's like it's wild Paul like Sebastian Maniscalco. I friggin' love watching Sebastian. There's so many people that came up now that I've seen over and over and over and just watched them go up,

like Sam Morill, I've been a fan of for years. Sebastian was actually the first guy to recommend you to me. I love Sebastian. Shout out to Sebastian. I love you, Sebastian. Yeah. Was there anyone else after that? Caught up a couple people, told me you were awesome.

Nice. Quite a few. Sebastian's such a standup guy. This friend of mine, when I told him that it was- Shane Gillis, it's Shane Gillis, isn't it? It is. Yeah. You just thought of it.

You shouldn't have let down your guard. I just knew it. How'd you know? That was it. That was the moment. What'd you see? I can't tell you, but that was, right when you said this friend of mine,

I knew you were going to protect your parks, and I said, could it have been Ari, could it have been Mark, and I immediately knew it was going to be Shane Gillis, because neither of those two would have said, definitely not Mark, would have said, kill him, he's a witch. He's, I just knew it was gonna be Shane Gilles because neither of those two would have said Definitely not Mark would have said kill him. He's a witch. He's I just knew it. Yep. That's Shane That's such a sense of humor too, he's a witch kill him. Yeah, that's so Shane. That's so Shane Yeah, that was a little bit of a giveaway because I said it was my friend. Yep That is yeah, that was the giveaway. That was a giveaway because I didn't tell you it's someone that you said a hundred percent

So now I'm thinking like he must live in Austin like there was a lot of a lot of indicators. Yeah Whatever but that's part of the thing right, but that's also you admitting that this isn't like Super now I'm not psychic so everybody when people put me on the spot and like tell me this right now I literally go it's not Netflix you know on-demand feature like I again That's where these skills when people like why don't you win the lottery? Why don't you like all these things that are silly where you don't get what I do apparently? Do you believe that there is any sort of psychic power that people have like Like when someone gets a phone call from someone they're just thinking about.

Intuition. Right. I think there's, I mean, listen, that's like a bigger picture question. Like, you know, where does your mind expand? Like psychedelics, like where, what is there beyond this plane that clearly, you know, people are aware of?

There's, it'd be silly to think, but how do you kind of get on that frequency? There's no question that people have an intuition. Again, could I call it psychic powers? I've had things happen that I can't explain to you based on the skills I have. Does that make sense? Like what?

Well, I've guessed things from people where I didn't do the normal way I do it. Do you understand what I mean? Like I normally have a, there's a series of steps on how I do it, kind of like a chess player. Oh, got it. Where you get a chess player, you get Magnus Carlsen,

and you get the best chess player in the world, they can literally blindfold, play 30 people, and I'm like, how are you doing that, right? That's like magic to me. But you're keeping track of all that stuff in your mind, and you're doing stuff that is indistinguishable from real magic, in my opinion. But you've hyper-focused on one skill.

That's what I've done. You just think it's a lot of skills. What I've focused on is one thing is assessing what people are thinking and what they give away that they don't think they're giving away. That's all, I just guess secret information for a living, but to make it exciting and entertaining, I add bells and whistles and make it interesting.

Otherwise it'd be boring. How many mentalists are out there? Like, is there a community guys? You share notes? Sure, so there's like a, I wouldn't call it a brain trust, but there's people I bounce ideas off of when I'm creating, kind of like you'd punch up jokes, where they're, here's what's rare in our world.

There's creators and then there's performers. Do you know what I'm saying? Like writers, and it's like singer-songwriters. How many people have their songs written for them? Some of the biggest stars in the world right and how many are like Taylor Swift style where you write and this and you get a piece of you in it Yeah, and there's something about when you write your own song I'm not knocking people don't write their own song, but there's something that you feel different right do you know what I mean? Which explains the connection Taylor Swift has to her fans?

I believe so because you're getting a piece of you that somebody else can't. I'm sure that- Just a random pop star that gets like some factory. You'll still like it. Like I freaking love a Backstreet Boys song. Don't get me wrong. How dare you? I want it that way, Joe. But like when you are with her and I'm sure like Jack Gantz,

now she has a huge amazing crew of writers that I'm sure get things out of her. And I know a lot of like music producers, but you feel some connection. So, again, I think it's differentiating. There's a lot of mentalists, but it's a really small number that are the singer-songwriter, the creator-performer,

who have the thoughts and are constantly doing new stuff. Because we are a cover band. Most mentalists are a cover band of other mentalists. We don't need to do new stuff. You could literally do the same thing. This is pretty amazing. We are a cover band. Most mentalists are a cover band of other mentalists. We don't need to do new stuff. You could literally do the same thing. This is pretty amazing. I could do this for the next 40 years

and make a good living, God bless. And why do new stuff? Like when Louis CK was popping out three specials a year, everyone's like, what the, you know, why are you doing this to all the rest of us? You're so creative. You don't have to. And in our profession, you really don't have to,

because you don't have to bury material right if I'm not putting stuff online if I'm not going like crowd work the Matt Rife model who by the way I love that guy but like it changed the game now if you want to blow up on social you've got to be doing this or do current events do topical do things you can burn but I can't put my real act out there right right right, but you enjoy the creative aspect I love it. I find it boring if I keep doing the same stuff of course. I'm yeah, I'm bored right right And I get like sad right, but it's it's interesting because like I wonder how many people you can bounce ideas off of it Seems like you're kind of a lone wolf

Like in that world. I don't think there's I mean There's a lot of comedians like I could call a lot of comedians right now to bounce an idea off of. There's way less mentalists, and there's way more magicians. And then of the group of mentalists, if you were to do the core one, and again, this is not subjective,

I'm much more like objective the way we looked at names, how many of them have done certain volume of TV appearance, certain volume of views? Like which ones are getting the attention of the world and the zeitgeist? It's a very, very small number because you gotta innovate, right?

This is like an attention economy. You have to do stuff that's compelling to the viewer. And for me, I don't think about myself. It's a trick in life. I think about who's watching. Well, what do you mean by it's a trick in life? Well, like it helps you in everything in life, right? My secret sauce is that I hold the mirror up not to myself, but to you.

Do you get it? Like when you're watching and you're watching a football thing, right? What's intriguing is the fact that you're a football viewer. If you're meeting somebody and you want to be memorable, learn more about them. Start listening more. Like I'll tell you a story. I met Steven Spielberg. I did Steven Spielberg's dad's birthday and I got in that room. Have you met Steven Spielberg? No, and I'm like, you know a crazy fan Like I can't explain to you how many movies he had as a kid that were life-changing Dude close encounters third kind like yeah, he's one of the greatest of all time ever. Yeah, and so I'm in the room

I've done stuff for his family. This is not like a big blowout corporate event. It's like 80 people. Hope he doesn't mind me sharing this. And it was a great time, amazing. And at the end of it, I'm like getting some FaceTime with Spielberg. Right. And I walk up to him and we spent almost 20 minutes

talking to each other, which is like, I didn't expect that. I thought he'd be like, oh, great job. Do you know how many questions? I had a million questions, do you know how many questions I had a million questions? Do you have any questions I asked him? How many? Zero. Really? Zero.

And that's like right there. I learned a lesson in life that applies to everything. That's why Steven Spielberg, he is naturally curious. This guy wealthy beyond belief stories beyond belief. He could make it ego driven and he could have been telling me, Oh, this, I would have been a hanging on my every word, instead, he wanted to know more about me. And he kept asking me questions. I was like, just pause, dude.

I have like a lot of questions. Like, come on. And so I learned and I could have just left that and been like, I didn't get any questions in with Steven Spielberg. But instead I realized this is the person at the highest level of what he does. And he is naturally curious and he lets other people shine,

and this is something to do in life. Right. Which is, you don't know when you meet somebody who they'll be, or what they'll be, or what can, I'm not doing it from a transactional sense, but why I've had so many T.V. appearances is when I go into a place, I'm gonna do stuff for the security guard,

I'm gonna do something for the person who irons my shirt, I'm gonna leave that place like a bomb went off of amazement where everyone around there now likes you and you don't know when they'll jump ship to another network, to another thing. And if they like you, sales 101, they're gonna wanna keep doing business with you. And so those people become your champions elsewhere.

And it's kind of a lesson where he could have talked about himself the whole time, he didn't. Interesting. So I shouldn't either. When you go to other places, let other people shine. And that's something I've carried with me. And I think that's a superpower in life that most people don't do.

They think, what am I gonna say next? Right. That's kind of the key to running a good podcast too. Cause you really wanna extract the most out of the person possible. Right. Where you just want, my questions are basically

just to try to get you to expand, and I just want to find out how you think. Right. And for Spielberg, a guy who deals in all these stories and narratives and all these characters and heroes, to meet a unique character like yourself is probably really fascinating to him too, because he's probably like,

oh, I don't know anybody like this. Right. You know, like, what are you doing? How are you doing? Like, and now he's got like a new tool in his toolbox. Totally. Right, because he's got you. Right.

Like, this, you know, you have the spectrum of possibilities in terms of like the humans that you meet and then you meet one that's outside of that, you're like, ooh, I hadn't even considered you before. Right. What are you, where, who the fuck are you? That was pretty much the question. And then he had like, but he was interesting

because I don't know if you get this, but I get like the 20 questions is what I call it, air quotes, which is, how did you get into this? Like, these are the opening questions, which you can't blame someone. If you've got a weird job, people wanna know about it. Like, did some of your family do this? Like, there's all these questions you're gonna get every time. God bless people, I don know about it, right? Like, oh, did some of your family do this? Like, there's all these questions

you're gonna get every time. God bless people, I don't hold it against them. Mine is always, I'm doing like a sound check for a gig, and then there was like, all right, so we got this, we got this, and I go, don't you know that we have that? I'm like, ah. You know, like. Like, I'm like, okay, so just real quick,

where's the green room? Like, you don't know already? And I'm like, okay, this is. I just smile, and I'm like, you know, I never heard that one before, but it's, you don't know already? And I'm like, okay, this is... I just smile and I'm like, you know, I never heard that one before, but it's, uh, it's, you get that. But in this situation, again, it's like, he didn't ask those questions.

He was very uniquely finding answers, questions that weren't like the usual. Of course, because he's a study. I mean, he studies humans. I mean, to be a great filmmaker the way he is, to do Schindler's List, to be a great filmmaker the way he is, to do Schindler's List, to do, you know. That's such a heavy movie, man.

Have you seen that recently? I've seen Private Ryan. He's got heavy movies. And then, you know, Close Encounters is one of my favorite movies of all time. I mean, it's interesting. You know, one of the things I really liked about that movie is he, after he became a father,

changed how he felt about the ending of his own movie. He wouldn't have the father leave everybody. Oh, wow. Yeah, because at the end of the movie, Richard Dreyfuss's character gets on the spaceship and leaves with the aliens. Wow. He's like, I would never do that.

I didn't know that. Yeah. Did they film it or no? Well, it was after the fact. Like, you know, he made the movie, I believe when he was younger, he didn't have children. And then as time went on, you know, he made the movie, I believe, when he was younger, and he didn't have children. And then as time went on, he looked back on it, and he was like, oh god, I would never leave my kids to go on this fucking UFO.

Nor would I, nor would you. No. No. But in this idealistic version of who he thought the Richard Dreyfus character was and the circumstances, he had to leave. He had to go. You got to go with the aliens Like sure as hell get my phone out and try and get good footage for a change.

I'm like right here, good stuff. I like the Tic Tac and Gimbal, but I wanna see it close up and high def. I know. You got anything? Nothing. Off air. You got something? Come on.

I have off air what I think are people bullshitting me. Oh, you don't have to be off air. I've watched these. I can read people. I can tell. On air, off air. Where the snake oil is. can read people. I can tell where the snake oil is. But here's- I feel it.

That's where it's instinctive. Like I don't have the tools that you have, but there's a part of me that's like, something smells, something feels weird. When I walked in here and I said, this is again, pass the sniff test and pardon my French, but everyone takes a crap, right? Everyone in the world, I don't care if you're the Pope,

you take a crap. So if they're being held in a facility, someone's taking craps. And who's cleaning it? I don't think the scientists are. There's a janitor. There's someone in that room. So are you telling me that there's nobody in there

that's got a 401k, health insurance, some sort of, how is someone not getting, tell me, explain to me what NDA they're signing or what they're doing that if they found this out, someone loose lips sink ships, somebody would have told somebody who works in that facility who's not the scientist, who's not the military person and word gets out, how is that buttoned up tight

where nothing gets out ever? Well, for 50 years, you're telling me there's a basement somewhere in this country, eight stories down where they've got those things and no one else knows who's credible and can release it. How? Occam's razor. What do you think? I think the government can keep things secret for a long time. I think they did with the Manhattan Project. I think they've done it with other projects in the past. I think it's possible. You think it's siloed? It's just siloed. Nobody knows all the info. Because people do talk. There's a lot of people

talking and people share similar stories and They have for decades and I think there's something to it. I just don't know what it is I think you know we had Jesse Michaels on yesterday who has this amazing show on YouTube probably the best YouTube show on aliens and UFOs and uaps and he's and UFOs and UAPs and he's very agnostic in his thinking and he's very objective and he also is very, very, very thorough as far as his understanding of the information. And even he is baffled as much as he knows, but he knows more about siloed technology than pretty much anybody does in regard to this UAP phenomenon. And he points to this guy, Thompson Brown, who was working on gravity technology in the

1950s. They had working models. He thinks that they have some sort of a gravity propulsion device. But then there's things like Roswell where the crash, like if all those stories are true, that's too early. It's 47. That's too early. There's no way they had working models of these devices back then. So he thinks it's possible, you know, he's not a, I know this is true. He thinks it's possible that it is both United States government secret projects that people are seeing, and there's probably quite a few of them.

We actually pulled a few of them up and showed some of them that look like UFOs that probably is part of what people are seeing. But he thinks it's also probable that there's some other things. And these other things could be from anywhere. And then there's just the Fermi paradox, like if they're all out there, where are they?

There's so many planets, there's so many galaxies. Well well that's gotta be the case it has to be the case it's the question of whether or not they have visited or whether or not they're here right you know and then there's these like weird Peruvian mummies that we went over that these tried act all mummies that they take cat scans of and you see the tissue and the bones and you know, they they were all found and what is it called? What's the kind of earth that they found that these things are the die something? Do you remember what is where they were all dried out? I know exactly the description, but I don't remember the word something earth. I the word. I can't it's it's escaping me right now. All that stuff's very fascinating.

So fascinating. Ancient depictions on cave walls of these things and we pulled up these tapestries or a thousand years old that had these three-fingered creatures. Very weird, very weird. But that doesn't necessarily doesn't mean they're alien. Right. You know, we talked to we talked rather about all the various versions of human beings that they're finding now. You know, from Denisovans to the island of Flores, hobbit people, there's like these, there's a weird variety of humans that went extinct.

And these tridactyl things could very well have been that. Yeah, you had, it was Christopher Melanon, right? And that was my favorite one. Because he had, I think, I don't wanna butcher it, but I think he called it ultra terrestrial. It makes the most sense, which is, think about right now, if you just drop the bottle in the ocean, right?

What are the odds you ever run into that bottle in the ocean? It's impossible. That's what time is. If we've been around for 13 billion years, sure, there's aliens, but how do you, we've only been around for a few thousand. Like it's such an infinite,

it's a grain of sand in the whole beach. So what if, what would you do? Right now, if we had technology a thousand years from now, 2000 years from now, right? AI, multiply it out, the whole nine. What would you do? You'd send these things everywhere. Sure.

Just like sci-fi and you'd plant them and you'd come out every now and again and check what's up. Sure. So that's, I don't, my likeliest thing is I don't think there's any biological beings or aliens I think you've just got automated drones in essence that are running patterns that have some sort of a like I don't know that makes way more sense. It certainly could be that I mean, that's what we're doing currently on Mars, right? And it's what we do with you know probes You know with the James Webb telescope, a lot of different things that we use.

We just send a machine out and get information from it. And then also I think at a certain point in time, we're being realistic about what we're doing right now. We're going to have biological beings and then we're going to have some kind of digital being. We're going to have some sort of a, whether it's an actual physical robot or whether it's just an artificial intelligence that's a signal that we can send and, you know, it has enough compressed information where it can compute and calculate and do...

It's a technology beyond our wildest dreams is a thousand years away from that, right? A thousand years away we have a god, right? So if you extrapolate where we're at now with quantum computing and the ability to calculate things that if you turn the entire universe, every molecule of the universe into a computer, it would take you so much time, according to Mark Andreessen, that the universe would die of heat death before it could solve an equation that a quantum computer can solve in minutes. Right.

We're talking about nuts. No, it's crazy. And this is just 2025 stuff. If you looked at the internet from 1994, it's like archaic 14-form modem. Beem, beem. I remember it. I remember it.

I'm that generation. That's 31 years ago. So what are we talking about when we're dealing with 31,000 years? So conce conceivably a life form has existed and gone through the same stages as us without catastrophes, without nuclear war, without all the things that could trip us up, we could be dealing with things that are beyond our imagination, literally beyond our imagination, and they're probably around us all the time. I had an idea that I wondered.

I've always thought, what if ideas are life forms? Right. Because we think of life as being it has to breathe, it has to have cells, it has to... But everything in this room and everything in this city and everything on this planet that's a man-made physical object came out of an idea and The ideas compound upon each other that you know the more people working on these ideas the more competition the more the ideas will flourish And the more the eyes the ideas will be more complex and and more efficient versions of this idea like It has but it has to start as a creative thought inside someone's head and either a creative thought you can apply to

existing creative thoughts or a completely unique one like Francis Crick or you know when they're Figuring out certain aspects of biology or certain aspects of the quantum field whatever they're doing That's come that's a breakthrough thing like where is that coming from right coming from an idea? And then these ideas, they manifest itself in physical form through human labor. Well, it's Schrodinger's cat, right? Does it happen if you don't observe it? That's the weird thing about quantum physics, right?

It's completely, you can't imagine it, but if you don't open that box, nothing's happened yet. It hasn't happened until you observe it. They prove that. Well, that's where it gets really weird, you know, when people... There's a lot of people that are deciding now that to approach it, approach it as if consciousness is the reason these things exist, not consciousness as seeing that these things exist,

that they only exist when you're interacting with them which is like what some of the stuff when you read that like I've read books about string theory about quantum physics you just they're too it's too hard to process in the real world when you're at the table but the table is actually empty space right there's almost nothing in it solid every atom I don't even know what the the numbers are get like Neil deCrest Tyson But how small is the nucleus and the actual physical items out of it? They're empty. Everything's empty Everything's empty and then you get to subatomic and you're like, okay. Well now this is just pure wizardry, right?

Yeah, but they exist and they don't exist. This is something Michael Jackson said about ideas Start like right here something Michael Jackson said about ideas start like right here. Philip says, we went and met with Michael and Kenny said, Michael you've got to stop, we've got an incredible show, we don't need any more vignettes. Michael said, but Kenny, God channels this through me at night. I can't sleep because I'm so supercharged. Kenny said, but Michael we have to finish, can't God take a vacation? Without missing a beat, Michael said, you you don't understand if I'm not there to receive these ideas God might give them to Prince

Incredible just an incredible Michael slept one night. That's why purple rain exists. Did you know that? Little red Corvette was gonna have a totally different meaning with Michael Jackson. Isn't that crazy soon? God might give them to Prince. Yeah Wow Isn't that crazy? Too soon, too soon. God might give them to Prince. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Well, songs are interesting like that. You know, I met last year, I was in Sweden, I did this conference, brilliant minds, amazing. And I met Max Martin. Do you know who that is? No. Max Martin is, you should look this up, how many hits he has. So, Max Martin has, I think, more number one hits than anyone but Paul McCartney. Check that if I'm right.

But I got there, there's so many interesting people, it was an amazing conference. And I was ready to geek out with him because I'm just so curious. It's the creative, like how does somebody come up with something is fascinating to me. And one of his recent songs was Blinding Lights by The Weeknd.

You know, it's such a massive hit and I just, I love that song and I just like, just like perfect, sounds like a movie track in my mind. And how did you do that? Like how, you know, where did you start? Did you guys have a beat? Did you know the lyrics? Like, I'm just so curious.

How does that happen? Is it like in 10 minutes? Is it months? And he just walked me through like, he had a vision. We have this, we have like all this stuff that we sit down. And then the first, the music, then this, I'm like, just wow. It's so amazing to create something like that that a billion people now Listen to number one in every country in the world. It's like how do you?

Manufacture something so kind of perfect that everyone in the world likes it yeah And is there for inch you know it's gonna be the hit before it is the hit that to me is the most like how many? Bands get stuck for the rest of their life playing a song that they fricking hate, that they didn't know was gonna be their, especially if you're a one hit wonder. You're like dead in the eyes. You're like, I gotta play this again. I gotta, you know, come on, Eileen.

Like, you better love that song. Is it funny when you love a song and the artist doesn't wanna sing it anymore? Like, oh. And then they start singing it a different way at a concert. And you're like, why are you doing this weird acapella, bro? I want to hear it like the radio. Yeah, that's interesting.

That's kind of the difference, though, between musicians and anybody else. Because musicians, you want to hear the same thing over and over again. Exactly. I have that a little bit, where if I get clients who book me over and over, I say to them, do you want me to do something different?

Because it's like jokes. Right. It's like, I've seen Gaffigan, you're going to do Hot Pockets. Like, people call it out, and I want to hear it. But you know do something different because it's like jokes, right? You know what? It's like I've seen gaffing you can do hot pockets like people call it out I want to hear it, but you know the punchline, right? Something that especially you're known for so I found that if I did a completely different show People are kind of mad like you I don't have exit surveys But like I kind of listen in and see what's going on. I wish she did that one Bon Jovi has got a dude living on a prayer at every gig or people are pissed.

For me, I need at least two of the things to be the same because people want to see if they can catch it the second time. So there's a level of they heard about it and they're like, oh, you got to do that thing with the thing, like, you know? And so if I do everything new, yeah, they're kind of happy but they still want a greatest hit.

And it took me years to learn that because I used to be like, oh, I can't do the same thing. I got to be, you know, unique. And then I learned that that's not better. You know, I was just thinking like mentalists would be the best police interrogators. Right. Minority report style. Right. Don't you think? Like if someone, but don't you think if a police interrogator learned the skills of being a mentalist? I think they could but again It's the best analogy that I can give you is a director holding the camera I'm always holding the camera and pointing at what I want does that make sense What police interrogators gonna say okay to the perp think of where you were that night look this way look that way do you like

You they're not gonna do all that stuff This is done when it's done under the guise of entertainment. And if they do do that, you're kind of leading the witness. You could lead whatever. People are gonna, it's not a show. So you're not gonna have a willing participant. You can't be hypnotized against your will. Most stage hypnotists, they do compliance testing first.

Do you know what I mean by that? They have everyone in the audience, hold your hands together and imagine in like, in like who can't get their hands apart. And the person who goes like this right away, they're like, I'm not bringing them on stage. They're not doing anything. You have to be able to be hypnotized.

You have to be suggestible. Mine isn't necessarily suggestible, but mine is a maze where every time you hit a roadblock, I'm moving you around until I get you to the spot where you go through And so that's why you asked me why I didn't do this. It wasn't gonna work I knew it wouldn't I have I have more things planned than you know right now, okay? I've been thinking about this for a while, but I'm not gonna do them all okay

Because again, how do you structure an act you leave the best for last? God never leave you're doing the best going down the home stretch. Are we are we home stretch? Are we at the final moment? We were almost at three hours. So, wow, this goes fast, huh? Flew by. Remember when you asked me, did I wake up early or late? Right.

It's the only thing I got wrong. Right. Right, except, well, he said the vowel, but he thought of melody, but either why was the, you know what I mean? That was a little bit tricky, because A-E-I-O-U. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Here's what I wanna do.

You said 50-50, coin flip. Okay, and I brought one You said who has coins? What do we got here a coin? What is it? Candy half right? Yeah. All right. Let's go. I feel like one is not exciting enough. That's like a football game Here's what I do. I don't if you can see me from over there Let's do three tosses. Okay Statistically how many we get right? Two one and a half. All right. All right, either way call it in the air. Okay, you see me with that man Try the tables real busy. Okay, call it in the air tails you go in tails. Yeah, what do we get heads? All right. All right

Whatever Oh for one. Okay, you felt good about it when you did it. No, okay Whatever oh for one okay, you felt good about it when you did it no, okay So I really put it in my head no do what I mean it's a coin flip It's not a trick okay now it gets in your head because you guessed it and you're like it didn't work the first time But I nobody cares nothing right now. You ready call it in the air. What are you going tails? You're going tails again? Yeah, you're going tails again. Yep. I can't I see I that time I would never change its heads oh for 2 mmm all right all right third try his charm okay you think you got it yep what are the odds on that so this has got to be your shot call it tails tails I always go tails never fails what do we get Joe you're 0 for 3 heads again you're 0 for 3 you done nope you want one more sure you insist yeah, all right. You're not done. I said three okay

So I go over here has that envelope been there the whole time this envelope yes We sealed this right the moment I arrived at this studio right okay. You're gonna get it this time just for the record Call tails tails yeah Oh for four are you doing this? I'm not doing anything! You're not making it land on heads? No, but do you know how to do it? Do you have a method? Call it. Call it whatever you want. Tails.

Did I do it? You said it with... What is it? It's heads. But that didn't count. That's five in a row. Just bad luck. Is that five in a row? I don't really count that one. That seems odd. Let's try one more. Double check the tails are still there. Do it yourself. Do it yourself.

Double check what, Jamie? Double check there's still tails on there. There's still tails. Okay, just check it. But this doesn't count, because this one's yours. Whoops. That was very clumsy of me. Put it anyway.

Do it on the table. I just didn't have room on the table. It's tails. But did you guess tails? Yeah. Oh, okay. I just kept going. I feel like it's got to be tails eventually. It's not a trick. It's tails. But did you guess tails? Yeah. Oh okay. I just kept going. I feel like you just got one tail eventually. It's not a trick. It's statistical. All right. But statistically five in a row of heads it seems odd. I said to you, I hope everyone stayed along for this journey, I said this is your future. This is my future. Right? But I lied. Past, present, and future. Oh my god. Now hold on. I'm gonna come over there. Open it up. You'll you'll see what I mean, but I don't wait open it open it up

There's two things in there now freeze right there, okay Show us what you have two envelopes. Well, what not one's on envelope? It's kind of folded piece of paper one is manila envelope. Is it all right if I come over is it's taped Is it taped everywhere? Yes taped over So I'm coming over. Okay Okay, so I'm coming over okay You want to do it can you guys hear me we're gonna open it where am I is a camera here There's a camera over there Okay, I'll go around you. I just want to see this

All right, Joe Look inside. Okay. I want to look inside and before you grab it. No, no, no, look look look look Okay, I'm looking tell me you see it says two words. Can I turn this around? It says Joe Rogan. It says Joe Rogan. And I don't want to touch. Will you do it? I don't want to touch. Grab that one. That pink one. Okay. And read to us. Grab that. That's your pass. Hold on to this. Okay. Read out loud. That's been in there from before we started. It says Joe Rogan will get three coin flips in a row wrong insist on doing one more and then get that one wrong, too The present you can't change that The past Joe take out what's in there. Okay, tell us all look around the edges

This is stapled staple like I usually use the licks off Feel like do this bring this over I waiting to see look look. I don't touch. I just want you to like look around Yes, it's stapled. Is there any when I walked in here Joe? I made a big thing of it I said I want you to have this before right sealed. It's been here the whole time sealed. Yes Impulsive spontaneous in the moment got it and I said to you did something get in your head whoo Earlier when I said any fighter you've ever you've ever seen what fighter came to mind I said Anderson Anderson silver yeah and how many fighters rip it open okay how many fighters did you say cycle 3 and I said be very specific how many

fighters do you think cycled through your head I don't know I said a dozen at least it's he did he say a dozen with 14 you said 14 I read please open that up take that out okay and I want you to please read what's been in there from the moment I walked on this set it said Joe will have 14 fighters go through his head But with Anderson Silva in the end and a fight that he won Past present and future that's insane past present future the other piece of paper there's one that's got literally insane because at first I was going to go with the beat is a beat magma magma share off do this grab the other piece of paper

it's got a paperclip freeze right there this is the future stop stop don't hold it right there in your hand I'm holding nobody knows the future nobody knows it's true nobody does right imagine right now best magic trick in the world Stop, stop, don't move. Hold it right there in your hands. Okay, I'm holding it. Nobody knows the future. Nobody knows the future. It's true, nobody does. Right. Imagine right now, best magic trick in the world. Boom, I throw a smoke bomb. Right.

Disappear, disappear. Right. Anyone ever, someone famous though, otherwise I want to see my grandma again, appears right here instead. Imagine you literally, I don't want Jamie to do it, but you pull up a photo, you show me this person's photo. Got it. Say it.

Who do you see right there in that chair? Say it, what's their name? Miles Davis. Can I ask you a question? Yes. Because I like this. Here's what I always like to do. I always call it the grass is greener.

I can see when people's eyes shift. When they have one person and they're like, I want that person, but that's the front of their mind. I can always get in the front, but for this to be a legendary ending, who is in the back? Who is the person you thought of before Miles Davis? Tell us mom and Muhammad Ali, right? That's where I love the gold standard the reason you're gonna talk about this for years is because you change your mind the last moment That's been in there from when I walked in here. Look at what's in there right now

Muhammad Ali How's that possible That's insane You are a witch we're gonna have to kill you lock the door Jamie Bam That's really insane man. That's really weird I want to ask you how you do this, but you're not gonna tell me yeah off-camera Tell you everything you show me where Bob Lazar's hiding the UFO. I wish I knew I wish I knew that's insane, dude

That's crazy. It was Anderson Silva versus rich flank rich Franklin. Oh, what a good fight. What a great fight This you keep this you keep you lock in the safe for when I come next time assume the clothes I will I'll be back on the safe. This is a really nuts man. I don't know how you did it It's really crazy the coin flip the 14 Different fighters like all of it. Thank you fucking nuts change your bank pin code right now change it. Yeah, I'm going to Jesus Christ Jammy anything to add to this This is like pure wizardry dude.

I don't know how you're doing it. Appreciate that. I don't think you're ever going to be explained to me either. Thank you. I appreciate you man. It was a lot of fun. I'm a huge fan for many years and I love what you're putting out in the world and I'm telling you I just I love it and thank you so much I'm honored to be here. It's an honor for me too. This is like

truly insane. I've been blown away before but I don't think I've ever been thank you so much. I'm honored to be here. It's an honor for me too. This is like truly insane. I've been blown away before but I don't think I've ever been blown away this much. This is really nuts. And it's like shattered my worldview. I have to rethink how I think about everything. And what signals human beings give off. And like how someone could read something like that. Pretty nuts.

Thanks brother. Thank you. Woo! Bye brother.