The Joe Rogan Experience - #2367 - Jesse Welles

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

Jesse Welles is a singer-songwriter. Look for his new album, "Devil's Den," on August 22. www.wellesmusic.com Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/rogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Cheers to you. Nice to meet you, man. Good to meet you. I've enjoyed your songs. How did you, well, first of all, how long you been doing music?

I think most of my life, you know. um would you grow up in a musical family or is it just something you picked up on your own no i everyone worked and made art when they weren't working oh okay but uh no music really but that i i liked i like music like what kind of art did your family do like my mom would always paint she put like murals on the on the walls of the house and stuff and my old man's mechanic and he would be tinkering around making all sorts of fun stuff usually with his welder and whatnot so I mean they were I felt like they were artistic folks you know but they didn't they didn't necessarily do music you know they're smarter than that and so I only

know of you from the videos that you put up on Instagram and specifically I think it was the United Healthcare guy was the first one right which was really good dude it's the lyrics you ended the timing of it all you captured the moment and that song to me was like yeah that's what the fuck is going on right that's what's really going on they don't give a shit about you and they're just trying to make money and that's why when this guy got shot there was this reaction from people Yeah. Which is very rare when someone gets assassinated when people are celebrating. Right.

When someone's not like a mass murder or something. It was bizarre. It was bizarre. It's, I mean, it must mean something is up. If people are celebrating somebody's death, something is wrong. And all kind, across both sides of the aisle, it's not a political thing. It is a human thing. They're like, these people, they take your fucking money, you pay them.

And then when something comes up, you don't get covered. And there doesn't seem to be. repercussions and to fight it you have to go to court and you usually don't have the money to go to court and they have a lot of fucking money right and they you know have been doing this for a long time and now they're using AI to make sure that they pay less so they're using AI to approve cases and the the numbers are even lower than they were before so United Health Care always had a lower number than industry standard right yeah now it's even with with AI they're going to be able to chop it down to even lower it's like at what point in time does this become against the law like at what point in time is this like it's a con game like you're paying you're thinking you're going to get covered and they're like nah the system would have to be revolution i mean you can't have health for for profit at that point you'd have to socialize the the medicine at some point which i agree with up into a point the problem is human nature.

And like if you hurt your shoulder and you need to get an operation on your shoulder, you want to go to a guy who does the Lakers. You know what I mean? You want to go to a guy who is like, this motherfucker is the cream of the crop. He has dialed in. He's been doing this forever.

He's super focused and motivated. And he drives a fucking Mercedes, right? And the reason why he drives a Mercedes is he makes a lot of money doing what he's doing. Yeah. You don't want someone to not feel appreciated, not have the motivation to continue to get really great at their craft.

Like, there's a thing with just human beings. There's a financial motivation that people have because it's a quantitative thing. It's a, you can see it on a ledger. You know that you're making more money because you're doing this and you're working harder and you're getting this reward, whether or not it makes sense or not.

As soon as you will eliminate that and everybody gets the same amount of money and then you lose all the killers. Right. You lose all the mean is that. You just don't want to have to go to a, an urgent care and it costs $500 to get a pack of an antibiotic. 100%.

Well, that's a giant scam. So, and, but that's, that's a scan that so many folks are stuck in, you know? That's only part of the scam. You know, the health care scam, it goes so deep. There's so many different layers to this fucking horrible den of vampires. Right. You know, because it's, whenever you can make profit off of people and you're, you're involved in a corporation, and then the corporation,

has an interest for its stockholders want more money every year they want more money every quarter so that's what they try to do that's their focus and when you're doing that with people's lives and people's health like that that should be illegal that's where it gets fired i suppose that's why folks were you know it was it was upsetting to see you know i felt like i actually had kind of an unpopular opinion about it and that why you know why are we celebrating uh somebody's death like that seems far out just to celebrate the murder of somebody with a gun not only that i believe unrelated to him in his case like it i mean how how far out is that and so i have i didn't want you know i'd I make these tunes

but that one in particular I was like how do I even how do I address this what do you even say so that I so how do you approach something like that do you sit down with the pad and pen or do you start writing like how do you start singing

step one is avoid the work so I went I went for you know some long jogs I wrote a song about Amazon

on instead and put up like Amazon as Santa Claus and I kept sitting there and it kept getting you know the situation was snowballing with the United Healthcare thing and I was like okay you got a right and at that point it's it's a research project you know let's write let's write 2,000 words so that we can have 300 to sing and boil down the essence of the issue and make it wrong and put a jolly tune behind it that's really that's that's that's kind of how that goes about that sounds like super similar to stand-up comedy yeah i think boil it down yeah yeah get every and i and you don't it's just punch lines so find the punchline of everything find the punchline of everything i never had the attention span to tell too much of a story or anything like that so i like I like just keeping it in punchlines. So I always like, you know, Mitch Hedberg and Stephen Wright. We're so good at, we're so good at that.

Just come out and lay out a bunch of punchlines immediately. If one doesn't land onto the next one. Well, they, their whole, that was the daunting thing about their act, which is so impressive, is that all, it's all non sequiters. So every subject is new. Every time they open their mouth, it's a new subject. Right. Which is kind of crazy. It's a crazy way to do.

Yeah, but when you're an absurdist, it's probably the best way, because it's an absurd way to think, right? You're just going from one subject to the next in each minute burst, you know? Somebody asked me, if I want a frozen banana, and I said, no, but I want a regular banana later, so yes. Yeah. That's like such a ridiculous joke. I used to love listening to him in particular when I was in traffic because it was like, chill me out. Like if I was headed to the airport in L.A. and it was just fucking cluster fuck

on the highway. I just throw on some Mitch Hedberg and just start giggling. It was just silly. He's one of the coolest He was awesome. He was awesome. He was awesome. Let's play that song. Jamie, can you find that one? The United Health Care song?

I want to play it so people know what we're talking about. So people... You're building at a person and a chair and you paid for it all, though you may be unaware. You paid for the paper. You paid for the phone. You paid for everything. thing they need to deny you what you're old there ain't no you in united health there ain't no me in the company there ain't no us in the private trust there's hardly humans in humanity

now the procedure that you're needing ain't the cost-effective rootin only two percent of people end up winning a dispute so if you get sick pray to god for health because your doctor's got to pray to united health way back in 70 and seven mr richard tberg start to buying HMOs putting federal grants to work million 50 billion buccaroos last year the Warren Buffeter health the jet basos a feeder now CEO's come and go and want us with the ingredients you got bake the cake you get but if you get sick cross your fingers for luck because old Richard T. Burke can't give it a buck come out at eyes health monopolized fraud here's the doctors we own and the research we bought they own the pharmacies and a lot of the meds

they should start buying graves to sell us when we're all dead there ain't no you in united health ain't no me in the company there ain't no us in the private just there's hardly humans in humanity there's hardly humans in humanity fuck yeah dude that's a great song that's a great song and it's interesting to me how few people are doing what you're doing i don't know of anyone else I'm sure there probably is a few people out there that I miss, but I don't know of anybody else who takes things that are in the zeitgeist, these big stories that come up and turns them into a catchy tune and does it in a way where you're laid out, you know, really the problem

and the whole thing, like you said, in punch lines. Yeah. You know, there's a lot, there's a lot of folks doing it right now and more every day, but there was, I mean, there's a precedent for that kind of, of work um especially as far as like Woody Woody Guthrie was really the I was reading I was reading a Woody Guthrie biography um and uh my my old man was in the hospital he had just had a heart attack and we didn't we didn't know like what way it was going to go or whatever anyway I don't know just seeing him all hooked up to that stuff and thinking

if he were if if if he died i i've hardly i've hardly had any time to even know him he's hardly had any time to know anything we don't get very long down here and i'm reading this this woody guthrie biography and i was just like oh i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna do i'm gonna do this i'm you know i'm gonna sing the sing the news um because that that's really what what what he was kind of was kind of doing in his day because there was there's folk music around him and he team up with Pete Seeger

and he was on radio programs and he could have played he had the choice he could have played standards he could have played country western music and stuff like that but he liked making folks laugh

and he liked telling it how it was I like both those things I saw Woody Guthrie live when I was a little kid in San Francisco Arlo or Woody I think Woody

which one was alive back then was Was it Arlo? Yeah, when he died. Okay, so it must have been Arlo. So it was 19, let me guess the year. I was 11. Yeah.

So maybe, yeah. 10 or 11. Yeah. No, it was San Francisco. So it had to be, I lived there until I was 11. So it was probably around 9 or 10 now that I think about it. But yeah, he performed live. God, I wish I could remember more of it.

I mean, Arlo played this kind of. he went a little more surreal with it which is super groovy but he carried you know he carried on the torch for his old man so what he died in what year 67 67 yeah 67 he got the he got a huntington's disease and was laid up in a home for quite a while he lost the ability to speak and what is a hunting since then some of rare genetic disorder i don't really know what it does other than um yeah look he was he's pretty young breakdown of nerve cells that the brain yeah his mother also suffered from the same illness yeah so what causes that i you know why do i have a feeling bad luck is maybe not maybe why don't have a feeling there's some

environmental toxin involved yeah yeah you know what i'm saying he was sitting next to he was in east palestine pennsylvania no way no no i'm kidding oh you're joking but i mean well obviously it's different time but there's so many parts of the country that have been polluted by industrial waste. Right. There's so much horrible shit out there. I mean, maybe he was riding on trains and box cars and stuff. There's no telling what they were hauling around and that sort of thing.

But he, you know, he played the political tunes. He, he, I don't, and maybe he's a continuation of, um, of a longstanding human tradition of like bards going from. town to town and singing the news i don't know maybe there's some medieval dude going around singing about the king you know and i i don't know but maybe maybe maybe there was just because i don't i like i don't know if it's a uniquely american tradition but when i do it i like to i get romantic about it and kind of think of it as a uniquely american tradition because you got the freedom to do it and no one's gunning me down in the in the field there or anything for anything i say

you know so i get to you know yeah that's why i doubt what any if anybody was ever doing anything the way you do it when they were doing it about the king it's like the knights the knights go hunt him down or something yeah maybe a few guys tried but i bet they killed them or maybe you hired uh you you co-opted the bard you turned them into your fool your jester or whatever and then he sang songs for you about how fat the neighbor king was. I think that's a different guy I think you're dealing with a different guy. The guy who is

the jester, that's the fucking vampire familiar. You know? Like in Blade. The guys want to get close to the vampires because they eventually one day want to be a vampire. They promised it. Who was in the Lord of the Rings? Who was like Theodon's dude?

Worm tongue? Something? Anyway. I don't remember. I don't remember. people very close but it's that there's always the Dracula story it's always a familiar there's always a human that does the bidding of the vampire mm-hmm oh that guy yeah perfect exactly yeah same kind of guy fucking creep with a questionable hard drive did he was he in one flew over the cuckus nest was he god that seems weird like billy babbitt he would be so old yeah

One Flo over the Cuckoo's Nest was... Is it 67 or something? Yeah. It was a long time ago. I mean, but... Yeah, that guy's been in everything. That's him now? Oh, not now.

That's him now. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Time is such a motherfucker. Okay. He was in One Floor's Nest. Far out.

Oh, wow. Yeah. 75. That's a great fucking movie, too. Yeah. That's an eye-opening movie. about health care speaking of which. Well, yeah, in an era of sanatoriums, you know, and stuff where you...

Right, and then people glorify that as like, we need more mental health institutes. That's why there's so many homeless people on the street and like, have you ever been? We definitely need more mental health. We win 100% those people need care. But do they need the kind of care that they were getting before they were released on the street when they were giving people electroshock therapy and fucking cooking? in their brains those at least whatever's going on and one floor of the cookies nests is essentially a prison yeah well they're all with electroshock therapy oh yeah yeah and and lobotomies yeah until like 67 yeah they were just cooking people's brains

with a wand getting in there and scrambling up your brain it's it says dude they did lobotomies for decades yeah decades until enough people had their loved ones turned into zombies that they were like hey maybe we should probably fucking stop that didn't didn't they lobotomize Kennedy yep apparently she was just wild yeah that's all it was well first of all so I would have been lobotomized yeah I don't know if you yeah probably yeah I mean first of all the men were wild she was wild sexually is that part of the accusation that she was very promiscuous they had a problem with her and they wanted her to calm down so they fucking scrambling

her brains and apparently she became non-functional like they really kind of they you know they dialed it up to 10 so and that was it for her this is part of the show where i talk about ag1 which i've done for years and usually i like to talk about routine and don't get me wrong because routine is super important and ag1 is exactly the kind of daily easy routine that can help you feel healthy and help you get the nutrients that your body needs but even if you love a routine isn't it nice to switch it up a little Well, here we go. After 15 years of the original, AG1 has introduced three new flavors, tropical, berry, and citrus. It's still daily, it's still a routine, but it's no longer one flavor fits all.

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When Kennedy was 23, doctors told her father the lobotomy would help calm her mood swings and stop her occasional violent outburst. 23. So Joe Sr. decided, 23, decided that Rosemary should have a lobotomy. However, he did not inform his wife, oh, my God, until after the procedure was completed. The procedure took place, November of 1941, sins of the father in the book, 1996 biography. James W. Watts, who carried out the procedure with Walter Freeman, both of George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences, described to Kessler as follows. After Rosemary was mildly sedated, we went through the top of her head.

Dr. Watts recalled, I think she was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. It was on both sides. We just made a small incision no more than an inch. The instruments Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. he swung it up and down to cut brain tissue.

We put an instrument inside, he said, as Dr. Watts cut, Dr. Freeman asked Rosemary some questions. For example, he asked her to recite the Lord's Prayer or sing God bless America or to count backward. We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded. When Rosemary began to become incoherent, they stopped. What a tragedy. Holy cow.

Yeah. Scroll back up. Go back up. Scroll up so I can hear it. How many folks were getting these? The nuns of the covenant thought that Rosemary might become involved with sexual partners and that she could contact a sexually transmitted disease or become pregnant. Her occasionally erratic behavior frustrated her parents.

So she got expelled from summer camp and she was staying, it says, and staying only for a few months at a Philadelphia boarding school. school, Kennedy was sent to a convent school in Washington, D.C. Kennedy began sneaking out of the convent school at night. The nuns in the convent thought that she might be involved with sexual partners and that she might get an STD or become pregnant. And so then they decided to give her a fucking lobotomy. Imagine that. You send a young, healthy girl to a convent with a bunch of fucking creepy nuns and she just like breaks out in the middle of the night, like go to hang out with her friends or go meet up with a guy or fucking.

something yeah and so they go well a solution to this is cut her brain yeah and have her talk until she can't talk anymore and then we know when to stop cutting that's insane meanwhile Kennedy's got his that wasn't even a hundred running his excavates oh yeah they all were the father was like there's I don't know whether it's true or not true because we used to say it and then there's been things disputing it but of course who knows how much money is involved in this in the first place but supposedly Kennedy's senior was involved in illegal liquor during the time where there was prohibition in this country. I thought he was a mobster.

He definitely knew some people, which was what helped his son win Illinois. Right. Yeah. It's just like I don't know what's true and what's not true in terms of him being a moonshine runner, but it tracks. You know, and the whole family. It seems like an incredibly lucrative business to get into during prohibition. I don't know who wouldn't be running. liquor. Especially when you can control the police, you know, especially when you had money and you

were involved and you had your foot dipped in all sorts of organized crime and, you know, then you had souped up NASCAR cars that were they were using to drive. That's where NASCAR comes from. Yeah, I guess that's the roots of, yeah. Running from the cops. If it weren't for Joe, we wouldn't have had, wouldn't have had Dale. Yeah, right? Wouldn't have the, the loop. Yeah, it's just a, a crazy that they did for a long, long time just to get rid of people that were a problem. So what's the modern lobotomy? What are we doing right now that we're going to read on wiki or, you know, whatever? Oh, there's probably quite a few of them. It's probably quite a few.

Holy cow. I'm sure gender transitions for children. I'm sure that's going to be on that list. Or taking, I don't know, like, like prescribing benzos and stuff. stuff oh that's gonna be on that list for sure you know benzos is just like a like a chemical lobotomy or well benzo doesn't give you a chemical lobotomy but it does make you 100% hooked on it yeah oh it's just the different the stress you would undergo getting out of the addiction you might never you might never come come back fully or get your life all the way back

after an addiction like that well I know several people that have had that problem and it is a real struggle right like Jordan Peterson has publicly talked about it it took him over a year to recover physically just from being addicted and that's actually going to rehabs and stuff like that there's a lot of folks most folks they're going they don't have the money nowhere right now they get off it and then drink themselves to death or or do cocaine something yeah find some find something or you know or the psychiatrist puts you on some new kind of pills to satisfy whatever the fuck was wrong with you in the first place you can get off one and hop over to to the other go back and forth and it's a real problem and when someone gets on that ride it's hard

to get off it's hard to get off to take this pill to fix it ride yeah that ride is a very popular ride yeah i i mean folks like having a having a doctor tell them it's all right you know i guess it's like a it's like if they get it they're an authority figure told them it's all good to take this pill, you know, or whatever. Well, not only that, with, especially with Benzos, especially in the early days, nobody even told them that it was almost impossible to get off of. I mean, could, you know, a patient kind of figure that out pretty quick. Well, they don't because they keep taking it, right?

You keep taking it because you're addicted to it. If you forget, forget a dose, you start feeling those withdrawals come in, you know, or whatever. Apparently with, find this out, this is true, apparently one of the things about benzodiazepine is that it alleviates anxiety, but if you stop taking it, your anxiety maybe even elevates past where it was before you first took it. Oh, yeah. So, there's like a slingshot effect. It's not saying, when you get off of anything, all sorts of stuff rattles loose in your head, man. For sure, for sure. And everything gets worse for a period of time.

What I was going to get at is it's one of the few where you could die if you get off of it. Right. It's like that and alcohol. Those are like the two things, right? So here it is. During early withdrawal, an individual may experience a return of anxiety and insomnia symptoms as the brain rebounds without the drugs. But it doesn't say a rebound. How long does it last?

Many people stop taking these medication experience increased anxiety or restlessness referred to as rebound anxiety. rebound effects from Benzo withdrawal, such as anxiety or insomnia, typically last two to three days. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. I mean, the insomnia itself is enough to cause all sorts of different. Yeah. How long does Benzo belly? What's Benzo belly?

What is that? Benzo belly can depend, is it like a diarrhea? Such as the type of dose of benzodia, what does it mean? Indigestion. Some people experience. what does it say what does it say it is Benzobilly what to know

put that out common side of oh cramps yeah gastrointestinal symptoms oh well you're fucking poisoning your insides to the pepto list your body's like

what are you doing oh look at you could get nausea vomiting abdominal pain bloating you know how they do that at the end of the commercial indigestion loss of appetite constipation weight loss bloody diarrhea

you might want to die that's the craziest ones when the side effects of antidepressants are suicide. Yeah. There ain't are you and United. They make, they make, folks are making money. Yeah.

Keep the money rolling in. Yeah, as long as they keep mushrooms illegal. There's a lot of things that could be fixed in a very natural way that people have been doing for thousands of years that you can't do. At least in Texas, they opened up Ibogaine again. Right. So that's new. where, you know, they're going to do these,

they've done them so far, these trials with soldiers, and it's super effective, man, especially for getting off drugs. Yeah. Like really, really, really effective. Like, 80% for one dose and in the 90s for two dose. People just quit pills, quit everything, quit, drink, whatever the, whatever's fucking with you.

Yeah. There's natural tools out there to figure out, like, people get in patterns, right? They get in these terrible behavior patterns, and they don't know why. They don't know how to get out of them. They keep falling into them because they're like tightly grooved into the way you think. Yeah.

Unless you can leave for a moment, the connection that you have to this existence where you're completely continually trapped by your patterns, unless you can leave and look at those patterns, you're just fighting against so much gravity and so much momentum. Right. And then whatever you're the life that you've chosen, you know, you're around the same people. there's so many things that make it very difficult to really change your life outside of escaping briefly and getting a look at it from you know some so it's like ibegain like smooth out all the ruts ibegain i've never done it so i can't really speak to this but from the people that have done it what they explain that it does first of all it actually stops physical addiction somehow they don't totally understand how it's doing this but it's to stop it physical addiction and sort of rewires the way your brain and for lack of a better turn looks at addiction it also is it's not a drug that you could abuse recreationally apparently it's not a fun time and it's a 24-hour experience and this 24-hour experience is it psychedelic yes and this 24-hour experience is essentially a review of your life and showing you like

remember this happened these guys beat you up after school and then that sent you down this road and then this is why you think about this and it like lays out why you're in all these different fucked up patterns in your life do you have a like a spirit guide i don't know i don't know i mean i think it's i've gained counsel you mean while you're doing it yes yeah yeah yeah yeah they they have centers what is the place called in mexico that uh former republican governor rick perry is an advocate of this right and he went to that is it beyond b-e-o-n-d um they have to they've for the longest time they've been doing these things down in mexico because it's legal there right does iowaska do something similar

yes that's a lot of people go down to costa rica and do that or there's certain churches that have a religious exemption in america right which is what what what go to church and really meet jesus yeah like for real for real like are you ready to utah or Wyoming and Like New Mexico, you know, places like that is like, you know, somewhere we're like, well, how many followers you got? You got $1,400? All right, well, don't get too big. I've been to a church in a couple basements. Like, really? well you know the weird thing is if anybody wants to start a new church now like good luck they'll crawl up your fucking ass with a microscope like if you want to start a new church now it better be a Christian church like you better be following the same religions that have people been following for thousands of thousands of years because if you try to cook up a new religion today they will wake oh you son they will fucking well yeah yeah yeah I mean you get a good following religions they get weirder and weird like in America

they get weirder and weirder kind of the more west we went the more we manifest destiny out because like you have like Puritan pilgrims land and you know in New England and the weirdest of them

move a little bit more west or they just go to the Quakers just go to like Nantucket you know they'll be on an island and be isolated but you know eventually in about a hundred years, you've got Mormons, you know, and then give it another 100-something year. Then you've got Scientology out in California. Yep.

Right. Have you seen American Prime Evil? Uh-uh. The Netflix series? No. Really good. Really good. And it's about, you know, the settling of the West, but a big part of it is the Mormons.

Right. And how fucking gangster the Mormon. We think of Mormons as being like these really sweet people, like, uh-uh. No. Not back then. No, no, no, nothing, nothing was in the West, man. Yeah. It was death and car.

Like, I don't know, I imagine it like Blood Meridian, like McCarthy's book, where basically, you know, like fall as a story like this kid who goes on a scalping mission, you know, where their job is to go down into Guadalajara and then come up in through the States. And they just, they scalp pretty much everyone they meet indiscriminately and then take those scouts back for. dough it's you know for a bounty which is crazy how much is the scalp's worth i don't i don't know imagine that you just find some dude who's like fucking taking care of a lawn or something like that i take that over a lobotomy my scalpans some people live grow back yeah yeah people that lived yeah she's really crazy i seen that picture is like someone had been i had a top hat on over this giant wound wound over the top of his head which i want to I wonder how long you lived because he basically had like an open skull facing the earth.

I guess you play dead while it's going down. Maybe they just let him live. I don't know, man. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. There is such a thing as having too many options to choose from. Like when you're scrolling on the TV, trying to find something to watch, or have you been to one of those ice cream shops where they have hundreds of different toppings to choose from? It's overwhelming.

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would ever make in the california gold fields eight thousand dollars per scalp that's crazy yeah how many people just innocent people that just happen to have dark hair got scalped and oh they would and like in in McCarthy's book at least which it follows the glanton gang i'm pretty sure at times they kill some of their own gang i'm sure uh just because they were they were dark-haired the most prolific of these operatives was an irish-american name james Kirker, who led a massacre of more than 150 Apaches in 1846 and ultimately killed at least 320 Indians during his bounty hunting campaigns. Scalp trade, $8,200 for scalps.

You imagine like if you have a lawless country, which is essentially what the Wild West was. What that was, yeah. And then you offer up $8,000 every time you kill a person. Yeah. Ooh, you can get rid of pickable people quick. And you're going to have the wildest of the wild are going to go out there and tame that land, man. The craziest to the crazy.

Yeah. And that's essentially... Calls them out. The... Oh. And that wasn't that long ago. No. That's what's so crazy.

You know, we're talking about 150 years. Like, what is it? How long ago was it? Not that long ago. In California, scalp warfare, eliminated nearly 90% of some tribal populations. Holy fuck, man. Were they doing that into the 1890s? That's crazy.

Yeah. That's 135 years ago. How crazy is that? It's pretty wild. That's hard to believe. Direct government support for bounty. payouts? Whoa. Direct government support for bounty payouts with blunt calls for the extermination of tribes and mass murder of men, women, and children provides an important new perspective on

the question of genocide across the long arc of Euro-American interaction with native communities. The Apache scalp that FBI agents seized in 2022 is one of thousands, perhaps tens of thousands that were taken, redeemed, displayed in rare cases like this one, preserved as a part of a long and gruesome history of scalp warfare. So it was in an auction house? That's how they found it? Whoa. FBI investigating Apache scalp

seized from Fairfield Auction House. The item was seized from the Palline Art Antiques in Auction House as part of an investigation into the illegal trafficking of human remains. and like when imagine someone kept that when does the karma come in on on this bloodshed that found that you know that founded

well I'm certain it did for the individuals involved I just I wonder if it's generational if these things if the if the universe will continue to sort itself out Over this time. I think this is a very unique time for understanding people. You know, I think we have to, you know, when people look at all the conflict and all the drama with human beings right now, you have to realize, like, yes, yes, we could certainly live better lives and we certainly have a better civilization than we have right now. We can do better.

But we also have to realize what we're coming from. Like, to make an adjustment from 1890 to 2025, I mean, this is a big swing of this fucking battleship. Unrecognizable. People were horrible all throughout human history. And I think that's what we really have to come to grips with. It's not just, I mean, we can go back to the Mongol invasions in the 19, what was it? What is year? The year 1,200?

How long ago was that? What year was that? with the Mongols. I think it was in the 1,200s. You know, I mean, the Inquisition, we can go to World War I, World War II. People were fucking horrible forever. And it's just more people are talking about it now than ever before.

You know, you had universities in America, which were the anti-war movement started the 1960s and the hippies, and they were starting to get acid and realize, like, there's more to life. Like, this is bullshit. The way our parents are living is bullshit. They're miserable and they're going to die. And it takes a long time to turn this big-ass battleship around.

But I think we have to give ourselves some understanding about the past and realize, like, part of the reason why we're so fucked up today is like, look what we come from. Right. Yeah, look what we come from. I know we can do better. We definitely can do better. We should do better. We should have a way better life, way better society. But look where we come from.

Right. we come from madness yeah absolute chaos chaos and bloodshed it's just the the ability that a person has to sign off a person in the government say yeah okay give them some money so they go kill some indiscriminately give them uh eight thousand dollars per scalp and a little less for the women and children you know 130 years ago 140 years ago 10040 years ago 100 50 years ago that's that's nothing man right that's nothing you know that's your great grandpa he was alive back then hard to believe is far out and it really is man i've i i wonder if things are you know probably seem a lot cleaner as far as chaos and bloodshed now in the continental

U.S. and the union and stuff, but who is sending folks to go do that abroad to protect the homeland, you know, under the, under the auspices of protecting the homeland? Who's doing the exact same thing as they were doing then just in a different way? Because I really think we stay as much as has changed, and we can measure that. We can totally can. I think also we stay the same, you know. Well, until we're forced to change. Until something or until we recognize the need to change collectively. Yeah.

But there has to be a discussion of it. It's not something that just organically happens, you know. I think of like Do you ever see This is Hollywood But Apocalypse Now Sure It was a Francis Ford Coppola

And he's got like Martin Sheen And Marlon Brando And Dennis Hopper and Robert Duvall And all those cool cats And dope movie But But it's written on this premise of a book that was written in like 1899 by Joseph Conrad like Heart of Darkness

Oh wow it's that old and heart of darkness was talking about a conquest of I believe the Dutch I'm not sure into the Congo and some atrocities and stuff that were happening there treating people a subhuman and I don't know if there was I don't know if there was scalping or anything but I think that there was slavery and that sort of thing but Coppola was able to adapt that and then put the Vietnam War as the new premise going into I think they I think Sheen's mission and in the in the movie at least was to go go up

river into Cambodia or Laos I'm not sure which, and take out a rogue U.S. general who had basically enslaved a population of indigenous there. All that to say, I wonder if, like, in Vietnam, if the folks fighting out there felt, like, in that moment, in that moment where you're, where you're, where you're, you're killing somebody, if you realize at that point that nothing has ever changed and that this is, this is, this, there's something prime evil in, in man with this violence, that this violence is innate? Or, you know, is this violence innate? Is it, is this how folks are and there's no helping it? And there's nothing that's ever going to change it? Because you can get kind of cynical that way or and i and i kind of tend on this more idealistic and at times it seems

naive or stupid to have an ideal that folks can could live in harmony in peace without taking one another's lives you know the problem is they've never done it before i that's that's that's mind-boggling. Mind-boggling. Because it is in all, I think it's in a lot of us deep down. I don't. Well, it has to be. Because it's the only way we survived.

That's the only way we got to where we are today. Right. Because we existed before language. We existed before empathy, before we understood each other, before we can communicate. So any being that you didn't know from somewhere else wanted what you had. And they would try to take it by force. So the bigger, stronger one survived. And that's why the best genetics kept going and going and going.

I mean, it was survival of the fittest. It exists in nature and exists with humans. And that's the basis of our DNA, unfortunately. Like, that's how we started, right? And so that the way it manifests itself today is fucking drone warfare and bombs and, you know, dropping bunker busters out of B2s. You know, that's what it is? Or B12. Is that what is?

B12. What's the big one? B2. Feels like it should be a bigger number Because it looks like a spaceship You see how they flew it over Putin Like look at my dick My flying dick

You see Trump did that when Putin was in Alaska They flew a bomber over his head Like what are we doing Why are we flying The radar resistant bomber Over Putin's head It sounds like a show of force

Look at my dude this is what these games but like is it yeah I just I I wonder is it within humans to to exist in like in peace without without well we certainly can be done in small groups right like if you me and Jamie I've said this before but you know about other guests if we were on an island all together we wouldn't lock each other up we wouldn't we just figure it out like yeah okay i'm gonna go fishing today uh we need firewood you want to get the firewood i'm gonna go for a long jog okay get that jog in okay get your cardio in you know but you know what i'm saying like we wouldn't there's there's only a limited amount of us we wouldn't have a need to go to war and most war today is about resources most war today is about controlling parts of the world where there's an infinite amount of money in the ground, whether it's oil or now it's rare earth minerals and stuff they need for batteries and

that's what a lot of it is. I mean, that's what a lot of conflict is in this world. And that's gross. It's scary. It's scary. But if you ask the average person, like, what are the odds that there would be no more war in your lifetime? And they'll say zero percent. Yeah. Everyone will say I know. It's so far out. It's just like I think you know the folks that go to war like if you if you signed up and went

and went to Iraq and you know and like 03 06 or so you know and you're securing or not maybe not Iraq but you're going to Afghanistan and you're securing opium fields

and stuff and you're out there you're risk in your life you got the gun on you are prepared to take somebody's life but for but for what and and like we need opioid what are you asking but we'll fight we'll fight we'll fight it seems like for the sake of just for the sake of the hunt or something like that if you ask the soldiers when they're signing up hey do you want to go to afghanistan and guard poppy field they've done like What? No, I want to fight terrorism. Right.

I want to stop the people that did 9-11 from doing it again. That's why a lot of people signed up. But then the reality kicks in once you're standing around poppy fields with a machine gun. And you're like, oh. Yeah. Oh, this is a scam. You know, I don't know how much internet access they had while they were over there. But if they did and they ever Googled, what percentage of all heroin comes from Afghanistan?

The answer they would have got is 94%. Yeah. And they would have been like, wait. what is this so then it takes it takes a larger it it takes essentially a siop in order to get men to fight for the interests of the people who are performing the siop yes you have to create a siop that puts a narrative out there that makes it noble for us to be doing what we're doing noble we're such suckers yeah it's a noble cause what's more noble than letting somebody live yeah we're Less suckers now than ever before, but yes, a lot of us are suckers for these narratives. Well, I'm a sucker for it. Oh, I am too. Everyone is.

Did you ever read that War is a Racket, Smedley Butler? Did you ever read it? No. It's really good. It's not long. It's really good. And it is essentially outlining what we're talking about, but it was in 1933. And Smedley Butler, who, when he went to all these places and did all these war, he thought that he was doing good.

He thought he was protecting people. But then at the end of his career, when it all, like, the fog of war had kind of faded. And he recognized the patterns like, oh, each time. Pull it up, Jamie, just so we can get a look at it real quick. But Smedley, the one where there was a coup and they had asked him to. They asked him to overthrow the fucking government in the United States of America. There was a documentary I used to watch. by Francis O'Connellie, I think is his name,

but it's called Everything's a Rich Man's Trick, and he would always talk about Smedley D. Butler. Yeah, he was a bad man in a good way. But this thing that he wrote, so you get just a, if you get, just go to the Wikipedia site, Wars, Iraq. I mean, it was before you in World War II. Yeah, it is right there.

It contains this summary. Make that a little larger, please. Aeroscope. Who makes the profits? It says war is a racket. It always has been. It's possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It's the only one international in scope.

It is the only one in which profits are reckoned in dollars in the losses and lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to be to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it's all about. It's conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the people. the very many. Out of war, a few people make huge fortunes. Butler confessed that during his decades of service, the United States Marine Corps, I helped Mexico, especially Tampa Co, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National

City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American Republicans for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I help purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1909, in 1912, where I've learned, where have I heard of that name before, I don't know. I brought light to the, I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interest in 1916. In China, I helped see to it that standard oil went its way unmolested, looking back on it, I have given Al Capone, I might have given Al Capone a few hints.

kind of crazy yeah because they've been doing that forever and if it wasn't for this one guy writing about it this one very decorated man who pull up the thing about the coup where they tried to enlist him

which is part of the reason why I'm sure he wrote this he was like what the fuck is this right you guys want to take over the United States government force now imagine if they were successful Imagine a military coup really did work in like 1930 or whatever it was. How fucked we would be now.

I don't know. It's interesting how history pivots oftentimes. Like one or two crucial figures. Right. And this guy saying no to this, who knows, what would have happened if he said yes? Is that the premise of Man in the High Castle, Philip K. Dick? Is it? I don't know.

I should read more, Jill. The business plot, is that what we're talking about? Not the coup? The coup. We're talking about the coup. I know nothing in his Wikipedia says coup, but business plot comes up at the end. What is the business plot? That's what I think he was talking about. This was all like the military industrial complex stuff before it started.

Right, but wasn't there a thing where they tried to enlist him to do something? I think, I mean, this was after he was retired. He's gone on anti-war. lectures. It just goes into his whole career here, and Koo wasn't like a highlighted paragraph. Is that just in Wikipedia, though? Can you just see if there's anything about it online? Because it might not be something that Wikipedia would put in. He had a whole bunch of nicknames. Did he? Did you see that whole list in it? You kill a lot of folks. You get a lot of nicknames.

Gee whiz. It's so weird to see when you think about going. What's that, Jen? Business plot pops up. People used to have fun nicknames. The business plot. So it was a business plot. So it was not necessary like a military coup?

Like, what was the actual plot? The Wall Street putts. Political conspiracy in 1933, the United States, to overthrow all this it is. Overthrow the government of the president, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and install Smedley Butler as dictator. Butler, retired Marine courts, Major General, testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fashion. veterans organization with him as its leader and use it as a coup d'et to overthrow Roosevelt. In 1934, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities on these revelations, although no one was prosecuted, the congressional

was prosecuted, you would think that that might put you in jail. You're trying to overthrow the fucking government. These folks get away with it. But it's kind of crazy. No one was prosecuted, although no one was prosecuted. The Congressional Committee final report said there's no question these attempts were discussed were planned and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient. You know, it's funny that no one was prosecuted, but if you did insider trading, you go straight to the pokey, Martha Stewart.

No one was prosecuted for that. They put Martha Stewart in jail for a line to the cops. But there's actual, you know, there's Congress folks that do it all the time. They made an example out of the Martha Stewart, I suppose. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, there's Nancy Pelosi's now estimated to be worth $400 million. You know, and that she's just... What a great job.

It's a great job. What a great job to have. I should have gone into. What makes you wonder, when you have $400 million and you're 82 years old, shouldn't you be like going on cruises and just like enjoying your time off? and why are you still working? What are you doing? Lust for power.

No, I really care about the American people. These people are clinging with their dying breath to every ounce of power. No, no, no, no, I care. I care about the American people. Who really genuinely believes that anybody cares about us at this point? There's some lobotomized, no pun intended, suckers out there. There's some suckers out there. And then there's a lot of bots.

There's a lot of people that aren't really. people um that are like commenting on both sides like on the internet yeah on both sides of it stay out of the comments kids stay out of commentary because it's not real you're if you're you're interacting with narratives that are propped up might be propped up by AI might be propped up by bad state actors there's a lot going on folks and it's it's not all people talking about things and that should be illegal are there bought wars now 100% yeah Yeah, 100%. There's bots fighting against bots.

Yeah, yeah. Versus your bots? 100%. It's probably a giant chunk of the internet. Are they actual bots or are they like people in a call center? Both things. Like both things. Both things are real.

There's AI for sure that people are running programs that are saying certain things. But there's also people that get hired to do it. You know, there's some, these pro-American sites, you know, and then people have done like an IP trace and they find out these people are in fucking corrupt. They're fucking Pakistan and it's, you know, they're, they're in India, they're in China. It's like, who knows who's doing it and why they're doing it. But there's a bunch of foreign countries that would have a vested interest in keeping America very unstable. You know, it's really good to have us out of each other's throats politically.

That's good for them. It's good to crush our faith in democracy and make people consider communism and, you know, And it gets really weird, you know, when you have a bunch of people that are throwing a bunch of opinions into any sort of, like, real important discussion about civilization. And you realize, like, oh, my God, 80% of the people talking aren't just people. Yeah. They're either being hired to do this, or it's AI, or they're bots. It seems to be, like, manufactured chaos in order to take the air out of the room, to suffocate. information. Also, to make laws so they can clamp down on dissent.

And that, yeah. The more you can have chaos online, the more becomes unmanageable, the more you have to manage it. Right, right. Right. And the more people ask you to come in and save them. Please save us. Save us from this. There should be laws. I mean, that's the hate speech. That shouldn't be legal. That's kind of the idea behind like the, like, false flag and 100% gun guns or like uh i don't know i think that's what got us into vietnam i think of like Vegas yeah like the mandalay bay thing like there's a lot of theories behind that's a weird that's a weird that one that's a weird that one is gonna i that's gonna bother me forever that's because that one actually happened while i was awake and paying attention and and and it just nothing

nothing lines up with it you weren't there were you were you in Vegas at the time no no no no No, I was sitting in Nashville, but I just met, I was paying attention. Yeah. That was a crazy one. And there's multiple reports of more than one person shooting. And then there was like, how did he get 400 pounds of equipment into his room without anybody noticing it? Yeah. That seems crazy.

Like, you've got a rifle case is a very distinctive kind of case. Like, I'm assuming he's carrying, like, you know, some kind of pelican box. so like something some snap down box like that's a pretty big box man if you got a bunch of those and you're bringing them in along with boxes of ammunition like how much is that way how strong are you how you know like if you had to carry 400 pounds of shit into a hotel room that would take a long time that dude wasn't doing all of it that's what i'm saying and i mean didn't like the security guard witness go on ellen to explain it did they yeah she was that it was his name jesus Yeah, Campos.

Jamie's all over this. I've been all over this from the jump. Okay, this is a few, this is one of the ones I know a lot. Oh, well, speak to us, young Jamie. Speak to us. You haven't said anything wrong yet, but there's a really good website someone put together called, like, the Las Vegas shooting map.com. They've got tracked little, it's a Google map, but there's like little dots for YouTube videos, cell phone footage, 911. recordings photos it's a complete timeline from the like time before the

concert started to like five days after what is the best theory about why that happened conspiracy or real what's a conspiracy give me the the juiciest one first you read online like especially on a place like x.com would be that there was a let me try to word this right I think they were worried about the Saudi family or whoever's in control in Saudi Arabia was worried about MBS taking over and there was an event happening that he was in Vegas for and they tried to use this chaos to take him out. Whoa.

He found out about it. And then this leads to this event happening the next month in November where he got all the families to come to four seasons. There was like kidnappings and extortions and all sorts of money. He basically was pissed and he found out about it. Oh, that happened a month later? Yeah. Whoa.

People have heard about that event happening, but tying it to the Las Vegas shooting. Not a lot of people have done. I just read about that part recently. Holy shit, dude. But there's not a lot of proof of any of that happening, but that's the conspiracy. I thought I was like metal detectors in the casinos. I mean, that's part of it. People thought that they were trying to create an event so people would have to get body scanned in every casino.

Because there were people in the state government that had stock in these security systems. Oh, God. I mean, it's diabolical. God, I hope that's not true. But there was, apparently, like, there's shells that were found in places that were outside of that hotel room. Outside of the hotel room? Yeah. Or away from those windows.

Some people think that the second window was broken after the fact. That one don't make no sense. And he died of a self-inflicted gunshot rule allegedly, right? So is the idea that he's a patsy? I guess. I mean, if you're going to follow that conspiracy, I just laid out, then 100% you'd have to be. but again there's not a ton of evidence for that one there's some wow yeah wow

mysteries what's the other uh theories enigmas sort of what he was getting into where it's like there was this like tie in to just get body scanners everywhere that one makes sense the one the funnest one i'll show you a picture of you know how there's like a playing deck of cards that's got like every conspiracy from like the last 20 years in it there is no no it's like the twin towers are in one picture and the one with Vegas I'll show you

you it's very Sam Triply point this out to me there I'll show you you ever get into the Oklahoma City bombing I'm familiar I'm familiar we got Ruby Ridge

Waco Tim doing his thing possibly with the team yeah those are all big what I'm getting at what is this this is the playing deck cards

this is the Vegas card it's got this it says Is that a tattoo? This is Jason Aldean's tattoo, who was the guy on stage when the shooting started. What? Just so happens to be it's a jack and an ace. Now, that's a coincidence, but that's a crazy coincidence.

It's like how that could have been planned. Don't know. Yeah, but that's his fucking name, bro. Jason Aldean. That's ridiculous. That's a crazy connection to make. His literal name is Jason L.D. Oh.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a microphone and a jack and an ace. with the j and an a on it's wild so that's silly that's silly

that's silly that one that one needs to be shut up that's that's outrageous yeah but it's just

when you think that someone might have done something like that someone might do a mass shooting so they could take out one dude like blame it on this guy like how much planning

has to be involved in that and then like how do you get the patsy you get this guy who's just like a a degenerate gambler that's what he was right it was just a poker player right they made a bunch of money playing video poker which is like if you make that much money playing video poker they're not going to like you keep playing really yeah Dana made money playing blackjack and they're like you can't play here anymore like if you're good and you're making money they say we don't want you to do that yeah they

booted dana out of the palms back in the day that's what it was it with the palms I think but like i don't know okay see was that to destroy information is that the is that the conspiracy there that like in the oklahoma city there was there was a much of info in the building that they wanted perhaps because i know some of bill clinton stuff maybe disappeared i don't know the specifics on that but what i was getting at was the specifics of the bomb itself um that a fertilizer or bomb would not be able to do that kind of destruction and that destruction was the way a bomb generally works like it goes from this is where the bomb detonates and then all the energy goes outward right if you are parked right in front of a building how does the building blow outward this way

and why were there's all these reports of the FBI and bomb units pulling additional undettonated bombs from the building right look at how the building blew out I know that's it's kind of crazy absolute devastation I mean but it really depends entirely on the size of the bomb right so if you have a bomb like see where that blue area is that's where supposedly I think where the bomb went off if you have an immense bomb that is right there and it just blows up and that's the force of it all around like in a sort of conical effect that kind of makes sense but a lot of people think that that the amount of power that you would generate from a fertilizer bomb is not really capable of doing that kind of damage. And Alex Jones, who was the first person that I ever heard talk about this,

he played all these news reports of them talking about finding additional bombs. Right. Like it was on the news, so they were talking about the FBI or whoever it was. ATF in that building? I believe something like that. Maybe they would have had some information. Well, I mean, they changed some of the laws after

that bombing. Some explosives could have been in their possession even or something. Oh, that like it blew up because of the other thing going up? I mean... Perhaps, but they didn't say that. And it's pretty odd that the ATF offices would have just bombs laying around. Yeah, yeah.

That doesn't make any sense. Like, why do you guys have bombs in the break room? Well, they're studying. Yeah, we're studying actual live bombs. I don't think so. That doesn't make any sense. They're pretty good about taking care of bombs. But see if you can find anything about reports of additional bombs from Oklahoma City. They were looking for a second person for a while.

Yeah, they were looking for a second person too. But, I mean, there's also this problem with the fog of eyewitness accounts and everything after a catastrophe. like one thing that happens about events is no one really like if you're there and some fucking thing blows up it's it's entirely dependent upon your makeup whether or not you can even objectively recall exactly what happened depending upon like how freaked out you are by this and how used to being freaked out you are right maybe you're a veteran maybe you've served overseas and like you can actually give an accurate account of this because you've been around crazy shit, but if you haven't, it's very likely that, you know, people are very confused afterwards.

I would have been totally shook. No credible evidence of additional bombs being found. Initial confusion. This is AI over you. AI. In the immediate aftermath of the AI, by the way, that still thinks the COVID vaccine saved millions of lives. In the immediate aftermath of the bombing, some news reports and individuals speculated about multiple explosions. Okay, news reports, why would they say that if there was no reason to say that? Conflicting reports.

Some theory suggested a second, even third bomb were involved, citing nearby seismograph readings and witness accounts. Seismograph. So there was multiple seismograph readings. Experts disagreement. Oh, I love when they call on the experts. However, experts, including physicists and physicists. engineers that are not named, stated that the second tremor recorded by the size of graphs was likely caused by the buildings collapsed.

Not another bomb. Go to sleep, America. Some conspiracy theorists continue to promote the idea of additional bombs, even though there was news reports, often citing discrepancies in the observed damage or expert opinions. Yeah, the observed damage is kind of crazy. The damage is kind of crazy. Yeah. It looks like it's blown out.

You know? That's a huge, huge demo job, man. Well, it's just weird. You know, and it's his, Timothy McVeigh's reason for doing it. All of it is weird. Right. Like, it was revenge for the government's intervention with Ruby Ridge and the Waco. Right, right.

So he was going to take on that. I mean, how many did these extremist organizations get infiltrated by the government when they find some. Well, didn't they, didn't they find, like, the folks who were going to kidnap the governor or something? It was just, like, wasn't it all the gov? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was 12 out of 14 people. Yeah. Were government agents.

So then who? And then those two guys went to jail. So the two that weren't. Yeah, exactly. And the two that weren't, it wasn't even their idea. They were, like, dorks that were larping. Right. You know, yeah, man, we're going to blow up the government.

They're fucking losers. wanted friends you know they wanted friends and they found friends and these extremists and they thought that these guys you know they fucking meet up talk about kidnapping a governor like they thought it was all bullshit those guys literally said they thought we were never gonna do this yeah and then the feds come knocking on their door one of the wildest ones they radicalized this young guy who was 19 years old I believe it was in Dallas they radicalized him and then they gave him a bomb that was fake and then gave him a cell-fell

phone to detonate the bomb and then when he didn't when he tried to use the cell phone to detonate the bomb they arrested him because even though it was fake even though it didn't work even though they gave it to him even though they talked him into doing it right they arrested him for terrorism because he was willing to listen to them which is crazy why do you do that well also you're doing it to a young guy who probably like does the first time in his life he felt like he had any purpose like you've mind-fucked him into believing that he's doing this for a greater good you know you're you're mind-fucking him to telling him that like you know he's gonna put a dent in the great Satan by detonating this bomb and you're gonna go down in history you're gonna be huge and who and he's

a dumb guy just a dumb dude who they talk into it and then they arrest him like we stop terrorism you fucking made it bitch you made it and then the problem fix the problem it's kind of like the pharmaceutical industry or something well it's a pattern yeah it's a pattern that but it's just a weird one that we uh that we tolerate under the rule of law like that seems pretty crazy that you guys made a plot to kidnap the governor you got 12 12 out of 14 of the people who are involved we're working with the government and then you know it should be like well okay whose idea was it It was Mike's idea He was the first one to say Mike you work for the government

This is crazy Mike You can't arrest Tom Because it was your idea Mike You fucking asshole But yeah yeah yeah but I was working with the government I mean it's like I'm fine right Right And then he gets they all get

Just disappear Nobody hears them Nobody knows their name Nobody knows who they are They're probably doing it right now They're they go into the private sector They're I don't know

Who knows? who knows over with uh i mean who knows who was instructing them to do with sure who knows who was instructing them to do what they were doing in the first place yeah why did you guys decide that you're going to kidnap the governor did is there a higher-ups that told you this is a good idea to plot this like what are we trying to do i just wonder how much within those within even these buildings like what's the communication like in a huge organization like the FBI or something are there are there people over on floor two that have no idea what's going on on floor four 100% you know 100% and yeah 100% just pockets

pockets of intelligence little microcosms of of people work you know well talking to people that actually work in the government they'll tell you there are people that are in charge of each individual office and they're like a czar of this office right You've got to get through them. And they could put the kibosh on anything you're trying to do. And they're hiding information from the rest of the office, hiding information from other agencies. Yeah. And when I was a kid, I dated this girl who worked for the government.

And one of her jobs was this was like really the very beginning of computers. So 91 maybe somewhere around then, maybe two, maybe 92. And her job was to help distribute information, say if the Navy did a study, that the Army would have access to it. You know, so it was all on a database. Okay. So this was like really, really early on. Right. Because they didn't share information with each other.

But they still don't share information. No. They're in competition with each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some of them don't like each other. Yeah.

Like there's agencies that don't let those fucking pussy's over at the CIA and those fucking over at the FBI like there's like a lot of that stupid shit that goes on there's a lot of that stupid shit that goes on just like there's people that root for the fucking dolphins and other people root for the raiders people get tribal people get really weird man they get tribal with every damn thing that they do every damn thing that they do and it's us again damn one you know we're Xerox is going to take over the copying world fuck all those other pussies it's like as above so below and the part the the patterns the patterns the patterns go down forever.

Well, we have the patterns of territorial apes. That's the problem. We have the consistent patterns of territorial apes and those patterns find their way into everything. Yeah.

They find their way into fucking poetry slams. I mean, it's music. Yeah. Music's like that. Oh, for sure, right? Yeah, for sure. Comedy's like that.

It is to some extent. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, certain circles it is and certain circles it is. In certain circles, it's not. But it's, it's like that with everything. Everyone is

fighting for dominance. Yeah. And there's a really gross, weird way. And I think it's just our genetics. I think it's the pattern of how we got here for the first place and how the human reward systems were all set up. They're set up to

try to conquer things. And, you know, whether you're conquering video game development or fucking, you're making the best folding phone. It's like, we're going to kick ass over Google. You know, everybody has own little thing their little realm they're trying to conquer right and it feels great no I don't think it feels great to kick ass at something well I mean you want like I think certain I mean certainly does to be successful excellence is like the most joy rendering thing that there is that aspect

of it but you know the aspect of crushing your enemies I wonder how much well you don't have to have like I don't this is thing is like playing guitar or something I don't have an enemy but you're an artist. You're not a corporation. I just, I'm a corporation. Are you in LLC yet? Did you sign up for the devil's deal? What is? A limited liability corporation. A lot of people do. I don't have a record deal if that's what you're saying. No, no, no, no, no. When you start making money, they tell you to form an LLC. What is it going to do? It's like a, you become like a little corporation. And that way you pay yourself from the corporation. You can lease a car from the corporation. I'll be kind of cool.

You'll probably have to do that someday, eventually. I'll be in a corporate. Maybe after this podcast, you'll have to do that. Call it bottomless wells. That's the most fun, and it does seem like it is what, anytime you're in a hard place or anything like that mentally, or yeah like the best way out is like find something to try to get good at or try some you know and then try your best at it yeah i get and it just seems innate i think so like i think no matter what

it is right but the problem is if that thing is making money then it gets weird right like if you're if your whole thing you're good at and you try to get better at is just making money that's that's When things get really squarely. Because the same thing that makes you really good at writing songs could make another person like really good at being a psychopath. Because the best way to make money is to be completely feelingless and did not give a shit about who this is going to impact. Ship all those jobs overseas.

Look how much money we're going to make. Do this to that. Listen, if we don't take care of this environmental pollutant and we just let it leak out, we save X amount of money. Right. Do that. Right. And then that's where things get weird.

You figure out the best way to make money. Like, you're really good at making money, and that becomes your creativity. You get really creative about moving around the law in order to make money. You get really creative about how you establish relationships with people. How you can, you know, make sure that laws are passed that favor what you're doing. That's a strange art. Very weird art. That's a dark art.

That is. That is the dark art. It's a dark art. Snape never taught about that one, dog. Well, it's not a creative art, but it is. is creative in some ways if it it taps into that same thing but in a very negative way you know maybe positive for that person's bank account but negative in terms of its impact but do they even care about their bank account at that like what is it to them it's something totally different

that's the world they live in man like if you're a fucking prison warden the world the world you live in is like these are the rules in order to be to stay alive as a prison warden this is what you're going to do if you're a prison guard if you're on the floor with our all these inmates, this is what you do to stay alive. This is what you do to maintain order. This is what you do to make sure people listen and fall in line. Like that, once you're there, you have to do that, right? Like, if you're there, if you're a prison guard, this is what you do.

And I think if you're a guy who is in charge of, like, you're an economic hitman, like John Perkins, you know that? You ever read that book? Uh-uh. What they do is they would give enormous loans to countries that definitely couldn't fucking pay it off, and then, you know, come in and start extracting resources. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, China does that, the United States does that. Many countries have been involved in that kind of shit, and they're creative in that way. Are there NGOs doing that? I'm sure. Like, is that what... I'm sure. Is that what Billy G's up to? Billy G? Yeah, Microsoft.

Oh. Like, well, he's involved in a lot of the... Do you give a big loan or, you know, give a big favor out and then take, and then just take whatever you want from them after that? Because everyone's got notes once they... Yeah, well, it's called philanthropism, you know, and that being a philanthropist is actually very profitable, which is weird. No, I... Like Bill Gates made hundreds of millions of dollars off. of the pandemic yeah from just from vaccines dude philanthropy it's far out i have a song about

philanthropy do you it's called philanthropist let's hear it put it on there put it jamie'll find it um you know like real true philanthropy when you're you know you're giving money away because you're just a kind person it's wonderful it's beautiful you know i like it when it's done silently it, right? Here we go. When I was just a boy, my mama asked me this, she said, son, what you want to be, I said a big philanthropist, but dead as my oil, and illness is my business, with guns as my retirement, and war as my mistress, I'm going to be an all of guard with a whole bunch of rockets.

I'd get them two sides fighting, and I'd get them. two sides fighting and I had empty both of their pockets and if I got bored harmony weary I try my hand in dabbling and social engineer and I'm gonna be a billionaire with a big foundation we used to rule in shadows but I'd come

right out and I'd rule the nation I'm gonna do all my own laundry and a third world nation state experiment with the locals like some philanthropic sainting and I'd never make a kill not get your treatment plan you can die in slow installments and I'll bleed you while I can and I travel around the planet and a big old mystery jet what I did would be my business and what you did I would collect if I was a philanthropist just running around feel and

Philanthro pistil, not a whole lot of help just for myself, but I got to make it look convincing. You nailed it. That's, that's philanthropism right there in a song. It's far out. That's a great song. It shouldn't be allowed. It shouldn't be allowed. Well, it shouldn't be that easy to trick people.

Who believes it? That's why I'm just, I'm like, who. Who in the hell would think that this is good things happen because of it, but more bad things happen than good a lot of the time. And you're holding an entire nation hostage or an entire group of people hostage by lending them money. Well, that's not free, don't. No. You got to be free. Yeah, it's real weird because there's certain people that are like genuinely.

philanthropists. But even them, when you're donating money to specific organizations, then you find out that most of their money goes to overhead. Most of their money goes to employee salaries, which are ridiculously high. And you go, oh, this is a scam. This is clearly a scam. You aren't kind people trying to fix the world. You're profiting off of this idea of being a kind person that wants to fix the world. And you're doing a little bit of help. You're doing about 10% of help, maybe 20% of help, maybe even 30 for a good organization. But the reality is, It's about you. Yeah.

Which is crazy. You know, imagine if just you said, hey, man, my friend's sick. Do you think you could donate some money to my friend, you know, because he doesn't have any health insurance? And we were like, yeah, man, what do we got to do? And then everybody gives you money. And then you take 70% of it. And we go, hey, dude, what the fuck? You get strong up.

You're like, hey, man, I worked to get that money for him. I had to call you guys. I really, I put in the time. I need some of that money. I need 70% of that money. You'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? Your friends would never talk to you again. Everybody would hate you.

But meanwhile, if you do this for an NGO, you get celebrated. Right. Insane. It's real. It is insane, and it's real. The weirdest thing about it is, this isn't a conspiracy theory. This is real. This is really how most of them operate.

Some of it's 90%. Some of it's 90-10. There's good ones out there, though. There's really good ones where most of the money goes to the charity. And that's awesome. There's real people out there that are really kind people that are genuine philanthropists. And most of them live very humble lives. Right.

Because you don't make a million dollars a year if you're doing it right. Right. Just don't. You know, you just don't. And if you are making a million dollars a year, hmm, chance was a lot. You might be a vampire Yeah I mean

That guy was all over the All over the flight logs And everything Which guy was Which guy? Gates Oh yeah Yeah yeah yeah All tangled up in all sorts of stuff man

Yeah He was tangled up in all sorts of stuff After that guy went to jail After he went to jail and came out The first time Gates was hanging with him still Yeah as were many people

it's real weird stuff man it's real weird because it seems that it's like once you develop a network of people that trust a person like that and like come come hang out with him he's cool it's a good place to go and get your freak on

because if you're a really rich like international businessman and everybody knows who you are like a Bill Gates type character you can't just go get some head like what do you do how do you how do you how do you go get your fuck on you know what do is that is that what jeff was i don't know was he the the fixer in that i would just be speculating i would just be speculating but a good friend of mine who's very intelligent said this to me said uh there's people that want certain experiences and there's people that provide these powerful people with experiences

and that's how they fit into the social structure they're there to to help they can keep their mouth shut and they help people get these experiences right and then there's probably some sort of a wild rush of being naughty and doing things you're not supposed to be doing we can get away with it because we're worth 80 hundred billion dollars or whatever the fuck they're worth they're trying very hard to get away with this one I don't know if the people are going to forget just people are never going to forget the problem is do we have any power what do we do we do you know what do you do i mean you definitely can change the way you vote like if it comes up again but the problem is this is a bipartisan is a bipartisan it's not i don't know i heard is a is a

democratic hoax that's yeah i don't think that's true um but well it's certainly not a hoax if you go to jail certainly not a hoax of galane maxwell's in jail too so like she's in jail for sex trafficking excuse me she's in jail for sex trafficking but the question is to who who she You have to be sex trafficking to someone in order to go to jail, right? So how's that work? She's been to jail for years. So, like, how's that work? Is she looking at a pardon?

Are they going to... I don't know, but they just moved her to another prison. It's supposed to be a nice prison as far as prisons got. They moved her to kill her? Could be. But I would... Why would you waste the money? to move someone if you wanted to kill

him. I'm sure they could kill her pretty easy. I don't know. You know? But the question is, does she have dead woman switches? You know what? You know the dead man switches? Like, when... A tripwire? Yeah. Like, if I die, I want you to do this for me. And then whether it's in Israel, whether

it's in Canada, whoever the fuck the person is that you have that you give this information to, you just say, if anything happens to me, let this loose. And then you tell them, like, look, I have this, that, this and that. I have all these tapes. I have all these videos.

And if anything happens to me, all this goes online. So, leave me alone. It's that word, true. That's a real thing that people do. It's called a dead man switch. Dead man switch. Yeah. That's how people maintain life.

If you have information that's really sensitive, they have to trust you. If someone trusts you to not tell something that can rule, their empire of hundreds of billions of dollars and put them in jail possibly they have to trust you they're not going to trust you they don't trust you but if they know that you know that if you tell they'll kill you and then they know that if they kill you you'll have the dead man switch okay we got a stalemate let that motherfucker live this is mutually assured destruction some kind of nuclear standoff yeah they're pointing missiles at each other the information missiles

at each other yeah it's dark it's dark dude but it makes for a good spy novel if just America the way it actually really works would be a crazy novel you'd be like this is nuts like a tom wolf

there's something or another yeah just with the if you actually knew the actual facts I bet it would be quite fascinating you know like we have these narratives that we assume are real about even about history And I bet a lot of them are full of shit too, you know

Bill Murray was on the podcast It was really interesting And he read Bob Woodward's Story about his good friend John Belushi Right So he said I read five pages of it I was like oh my God they framed Nixon Right

Isn't that crazy? Well I mean isn't Bob Woodward He's known to have been hired Or at least worked with CIA And he was an intelligence agent Yeah he's an intelligent And he builds the narratives It was also his

first job as a journalist yeah which is how how do the senior journalists not get that job you're you're literally going to take down a president i didn't see that aspect of it in all the president's men who is that justin hoffman and robert redford yeah yeah you don't get that you don't get that was before the internet yeah like they they could get away with a movie like that i can i kind wonder if they oh listen I'm sure this I'm I actually I don't know anything about do you know Tom Hanks Tom Hanks the actor yeah yeah I don't know know I don't know I just wonder if every every once in a while when the government needs to explain something to the public in a way that puts us in the

best light if they commit in a movie through Hollywood and stick Tom Hanks in it, man. He's just explained so much to us over the years with Charlie Wilson's war. It's like, here's how the saving private ride. How's how this goes. You know, Forrest Gump is kind of a nostalgia fest about the, you know, Vietnam War. It kind of makes light of it. You know, the Polar Express.

I actually don't know about the Polone Express. Animated movie news. Well, my friend Sam was telling me, my friend Sam Tripoli, was telling me that, and I had heard this, that during World War I, they had a problem that soldiers were not shooting at the enemy. They didn't want to kill them. They didn't want to be there, and so they were firing their guns, but not even aiming them at the enemy. Right. So to combat this, they started making movies, and then in the movies, these war movies, the soldiers would shoot the enemy, and they were, like, really heroes. and so then in World War II

people were much more willing to shoot the enemy gee isn't that crazy yeah like so the intelligence communities have been deeply involved in movie making from the very beginning

because back then movies were the most powerful narrative in all of society and there was no counter narrative not to speak of nothing that went global or even that was like publicly mass distributed there was You might have people in coffee shops saying, hey, man, I read this and this and that.

But there were small groups of people. Most people were in the dark. Even if you had a counter-narrative, you'd be like Pete Seeger and get blacklisted in the 50, you know, a musician. Or you'd be Smedley Butler. Right, who was in a... The end of his career. Yeah. It's a wonder he survived his own tell-all there with wars a racket.

Yeah. So it is. It didn't seem to do a whole lot. Whatever, World War II is just, you know, six years after. I know. Crazy. Isn't it crazy, though, that they made movies about war to encourage people to just shoot the enemy when they see them? Because most people, it's probably so abstract to them.

Like, they're from, like, especially if they had just gotten there from Europe, right? So imagine if you're dealing with World War I, like, a lot of those people, probably recently arrived in America, right? And then now you're being sent over to France. Now you're being sent over to Germany? Like you're involved in a fucking war now? You're in a trench war? America was really not wanting to get in with World War I anyway.

Yeah. Was it the Lusitania? Some folks think that even might have been a false sinkage. Do they think that was a false line? It could have been. Well, I mean, there's a long history of false flag. flags that got us into war. I mean, it goes back to Nero burning Rome, you know, and what they did with the Gulf of Tonkin

incident is... What happened when Nero? Well, let's go pull that up. Nero was so crazy, dude. You know one of the things Nero did? What? He beat his pregnant wife to death, and then he found a slave that looked like his wife, a boy, castrated him, and said that this is my wife, and paraded this person around.

Sporus, was his name. French stuff, yeah. And just fuck this poor dude with no dick that he had his dick cut off. And then passed that guy off to someone else and that guy eventually wound up committing suicide. Yeah. Yeah. Nero was a complete total psychopath. So there was this one false flag incident.

See if you could find what Nero did. You know, that was also like Hitler. Hitler burned the Reichstag. That was a false flag, too. The Gulf of Tonkin one was a crazy one because that was, what was that? 67, 68 or something like that? So we had already been in Vietnam

for years at that point. No, no. That was the, they had some limited operations. Right. But it wasn't like we were as full-scale soldiers invading Vietnam. Right. Is this precursor to like Tet Offensive or something?

I don't know, but this was the incident that dragged us in. burning Rome, burning Christians. Year 64, during the Principate of Nero, the night between July 18 and 19, the fire broke out in Rome within nine days, destroyed or badly damaged. It's a substantial part of the city, leaving many dead or homeless. Rumors circulated the fire had been set by Nero, who, it was claimed, sought to divert blame from himself by holding responsible a new sect of aggressively prosely proselytizing Jews known as Christians. Wow. Most recent scholarship has rejected the popular view of Nero as an arsonist who fiddled while Rome burned, in quotes.

Largely ignored, however, has been the question of whether or not the Christians generally regarded as innocent scapegoats of Nero might, in fact, have played some role in the fire. There's controversy. Yeah, the chapter considers the problematic nature of Christianity and Roman attitudes towards Christians in the first century CE and suggests. based on this evidence that Christian involvement is not out of the question. Not out of the question, but the narrative has always been that Nero did it to divert attention.

Yeah. But the point is, it's like, look, they tried to do that with Operation Northwoods. It's one of the things that Kennedy vetoed. The Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on an operation to do a false flag event where they were going to blow up a drone jetliner, blame it on Cuba,

and they were going to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. And they were doing this so that they drag us into, to a war with Cuba and Kennedy vetoed it. But it was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Right. They're like, sounds good.

Right. There's fucking smuggish out. I mean, is this what the Bay of Pigs is? No, the Bay of Pigs is a different thing. The Bay of Pigs is after that. And the Bay of Pigs, the problem with the Bay of Pigs was that they planned it without Kennedy knowing. The men were already there.

Yeah. And then they had air support. And that was part of their mission. And then Kennedy denied air support. and then the men on the ground got slaughtered yeah and so they my friend Evan who was a ranger he believes it's very possible that some of the people involved in that might have been involved in the assassination of Kennedy right because they had a huge grudge and these were you know hardened assassins if you'd yeah if that's something that you'd go and mine yeah people out of that

operation well there's a lot of people that hated Kennedy after that yeah a lot of people we don't think about it now because I think of Kennedy as like being loved but there's people that celebrated when he got murdered gee yeah that I can't imagine yeah yeah well it's like today like if Trump got murdered there's people that would celebrate you know or if Kamala Harris had gotten murdered on the campaign trail there's people that would celebrate there's gross people on both sides of the aisle it it is I mean it's a sign of something's not good when we're celebrating just death. No.

I feel, you know, I feel like. Well, it's certainly a society that's lost its way. If that's the only solution is to kill people. You know? Or if you don't like how the results turned out,

you do everything you can to destroy that person. Which I think the most interesting version of that is happening right now in New York City. That Mondani. guy who's essentially like at the very least a socialist but kind of leans towards a communist direction right um both sides are trying to get rid of that guy they're like we can't allow him to be mayor okay but like but the people elected him he won the democratic primary and he's like 44% ahead of everybody else in the process so there's still you sorry you got to kind of fill me in so the actual election is not until november right so they have the primary first

Mondani won, and he won over Andrew Cuomo, who used to be the governor of the state, and everybody thought he was going to win. Right. And then people are like, holy shit, this communist guy is going to be the fucking mayor of New York City. And he's promising to jack up taxes, and he's promising to have, like, city-funded grocery stores and a lot of communist ideas. And so both the right and the left are like, we got to get this guy out of here. Okay. There's no way. But it's like if you believe in the democratic process

Like this is what the people wanted right let's find out if it works so then let's find out of it if it sucks if it makes New York City even worse Well then in a few years you get to vote again yeah how I was gonna say how long is the how long is mayorship I think it's four years four years right is a four year term for mayor of New York City It has to be right because in two years you're basically just using the time to campaign for your reelection Yeah because you'd probably by the time you got in there It's like 24 months later, you've got to do it again. Right.

You're like, ugh. So what are the two sides doing to bring him down? Let's even talk about getting him out of the country. There's people that are talking about is there a way to expel him from the country? To revoke his citizenship? Yeah, there's talk of that. Yeah. People are trying to figure out any way to get rid of this guy.

But he is a citizen, of course. He is. But he wasn't born in America, which freaks people out. he's a Muslim he's from Uganda that's where he's from he's only been in America for a certain amount of years and he's only been a citizen I think for seven or eight years something like that and he won you know like if you believe in this thing

like that's what people voted for and you've got to do better that's the that's what the folks want that's what yeah well the thing is there's a lot of people that live in New York City that live in you know any city really that don't feel like their needs are being met by the government. Right.

And they don't feel like the government has their best interest. And if some guy comes along with some radical ideas that he says are the solution, well, if the people believe him and it's not true, you've done a terrible job. You've done a terrible job of both distributing information and taking care of these people because they're looking for any kind of a solution. Right. Even a solution that might wind up causing a bunch of corporations to leave the city and a bunch money to leave the city and a bunch of jobs to leave the city yeah it doesn't the things are

things are desperate right what the politicians really controlled by like like three main things like special interests um donor class and multinational corporations so anybody who looks like they're disentangled from any of those things is looking pretty appealing exactly exactly Exactly. That's why he's way ahead. He's ahead by 44%. Everybody else has like 12%, 20%. I think the highest one other than him and the most recent polling was Cuomo, who's still running somehow or another. I don't know how he's doing it. And it's like, is he an independent?

Like, how is Cuomo running? Is that what it is? Yeah. So he's running as an independent because he couldn't win the Democratic primary. Yeah. But he's still way behind this guy. Yeah. According to polls, but the problem with polls is, of course, who the fuck answers polls? Not you. Not me.

I think polls are just made so that news people have something to talk about. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones. Well, they probably are. They probably go to the poll center and they say, run this poll because I got to have something to talk about on Wednesday. Yeah. You could rig them, right? So you could rig them, like, say if you went to a specific group of people that you knew leaned right and you started asking them questions on things or a specific group of people, specific part of the city that you knew was more progressive.

You would go there if you wanted to rig polls. And then you push that narrative out. This is how the people feel. It's like, okay, but who's answering? A very small percentage, and mostly dopes. Mostly dopes are answering polls. Sorry, if you answer polls. But most of the people have nothing else to do.

Because if you call me... I never met anybody who's answered a poll. Bingo. I met a lot of folks. You met a lot of folks? You ever met anyone who answered a poll? No, and the presidential polls are the weird ones, because sometimes they're wildly wrong.

And yet somebody got paid to make those polls. I think it's the news. I think it's the news. I think the news is an incredibly lucrative business. It's an entertainment business. There's not news every day. There's nothing to, and they got around 24 hours. Yeah.

They're making up, they're making up news. They should call it the old, because it's always the same shit happening, man. Like, it's not even. Yeah. It doesn't matter where you're getting it either. It's also a lot, I mean, CNN tried to separate themselves from that when they realized it was like financially kind of devastating to the company to have like really bad editorial comments, which is what they did. That's why they got rid of all their head newscasters. Okay.

Because everybody was terrible and everybody hated them. So they just got rid of most of them. Right. And they tried to go objective with the news, but the problem is like that way people aren't outraged. And the only way people are going to pay attention now because you spoiled them. You gave them candy, and now you can't give them filet mignon.

They're like, this is bullshit. I want Cheetos. I want snacks. Right. Like, you ruined them. And you gave them this for decades. And so now, if you want your ratings, you have to give them outrage.

You have to have a bunch of people yelling each other on TV so they pay attention. That and, like, I feel like the most, like, colorful people that they would have had on their things have gone indie now. you know like like Tucker Carlson has his podcast and like let's see Candace Owens was with like daily wire and now she's like got she's got her own big thing and there's and then there's smaller there's smaller ones you got like

breaking points is one you know the real problem is the left ones never succeed once they're fired. Um, the people that leave CNN, they're always like dismissed. Well, the talent, I mean, we have to be talented to do, to do that to sit there and look at a camera and just talk for like hours about, you got to be really talented. So, you got to be really dedicated. And you have to, you have to understand how people are receiving what you're saying too. And the problem with like a CNN type job is that you're being told what to do. You show up. You read the news as written by these people you have a teleprompter right you you you really can't stray very far from the narrative and you know you're allowed to you're allowed to elaborate inside the narrative as long as it fits with

what CNN is trying to promote right and as soon as you deviate from that you're you're cooked you're gone yeah so the so then there's really no crew there's there's not much career so are you after that because once you leave everybody knows you're a propagandist like no one's ever going to really truly believe you. And you weren't coming up with anything yourself. It was all fed to you. Exactly. You're drawn. Exactly. And then we also watched as you did elaborate on your own about whatever you thought about the narrative. You're a dope. You're a dope that's only on television because they put you there. You're not, you're not like, you didn't rise through the ranks. Like, this is one of the most interesting people I've ever heard talk on television. Like, no,

this is not that at all. You're not sincere. You're, you know, we would, would, people like is authenticity. You know, you want to know that someone is actually telling you what they think. And you don't get any of that from them. As soon as you don't get that from people, you never want to listen. Whether you believe Tucker Carlson or not, he's being authentic. Like, what he's saying, he believes. Right. This is who he is. And that's why he works. That's why it works outside of Fox News when he left. Those folks, all these folks who do, I think even Bill, Bill O'Reilly, after he got, like, kicked out, you know, from, from broadcast, he has, he's got his podcasts and stuff. If they, they really believe their stuff, man.

Yeah, whether they're right or wrong. Yeah. Well, it's not about that. I feel like the public has to understand that at the end of the day, these guys are, whether they believe it or not, this is entertainment. These guys are entertainers. Like, this isn't the new, they're telling you stuff, they're feeding it to you, and you got to take things with a big ass grain of salt because this stuff is, these are entertainers. Well, there's definitely that aspect of it. And if you're not entertaining, you're going to get removed from your job and you're going to get replaced by someone who's better at your job.

Yeah. Or hotter. You know, someone who's got a nice rack and a short skirt and who's really good at talking. Like, wow. I just want to watch her talk. I guess that's for the cable folks or something. Yeah, I mean, that's part of the gig, right? Like, how many of those ladies on Fox News just look hot as the sun while they're telling you whatever the fuck they're supposed to be telling you?

Yeah. It's a special kind of hot, too. That, like, Ice Queen hot. That Republican, like, hard-nosed hot. I don't get it. It's a special kind of hot. I don't get it, man. I don't, you

that's the, that's the cheapest, that's the cheapest thing they can pull over on the, on the news stations, is to have, is to have sex appeal. Yeah, but they've always got, I mean, that's how they sell cars, that's how they sell everything. People use that for everything, because we're dumb. I'm optimistic, man.

I think we're going to wake up. I'm going to say, I don't care, I don't care what the hot lady on Fox says. They're murdering people. I'm optimistic, too, and I think you're right. I think we are doing that right now. Believe it or not, your songs are a part of that. You know, whatever percentage you reach, it's not zero.

There's people that you reach. Like, that United Health, how many views did that get all told? I don't know. It has to be millions. It got a lot of looks. Millions and millions and millions. I know. I send it to a lot of people.

I think these the tunes get they get passed around some of them get passed around did I repost that I reposted it right yeah okay if I reposted I can find out how many people just saw the one that I reposted be it'll be a lot it resonates man it's like people are fuck how long ago when you shared the list that one blew up too yeah that was a good one too um how long ago was that the United Health one that was in uh December What is it, Jimmy? You posted it eight months ago. Eight months ago.

It was going to take a while because I'm a chatty Kathy. It was December 15th, 2024. Oh, that's not that long ago. Okay, so here's Fetterman. That's around that time. Let me find it. There ain't no you. Come on, Cocksucker.

Where are you? There's no shortage of stuff to make tunes on. How do you decide? what to make tunes on do you just sit and and when something like resonates with you and pisses you what something yeah when when something is like you know gee gee i got i got something i could say about that um then that's that's when you that's when you do i can't find it dude too but i know it's on here how would i how would i search for it there's i don't think you can't Because you're trying to see the views.

Oh, found it. Here we go. Sorry. Okay, view insights. 6,742,803 views. The watch time is three years, 104 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes, and eight seconds. Folks got too much time on their hand. There's a lot of people on the toilet right now, bro.

They need something to listen to it You ever go to the toilet without your phone? It's weird You just sit there like wow I'm alone with my thoughts Spacewalk without oxygen No one knows how to do it anymore Yeah it's um

Read the Dr. Bronner's bottle But the thing is like that The 6 million plus people That hurt that like that That affects the narrative And then you know The list one that affects the narrative And this one that you did on philanthropy

That affects the narrative is there's everyone's like throwing their coins into this big pile and trying to figure this out and it more so now than I think has ever happened at any time in human history there's more discussion it's just yeah we're so upset that it's not fixed and it's on its way in the right direction I think it's just not satisfying the pace in which progress is happening everybody can get on now too i mean like that's it's just like i'd prop up my iphone and like play a tune everyone can just like get and yep phone in front of their face and like get it out there you know yeah yeah anyone can now which is great i mean it's allows guys like you to just all the sudden have a following you know you have to have some talent some talent some creativity some hard work, bam, there you go. It's kind of cool. I mean, that's the beautiful side of social media. It's good. There's no, there's no rules as far as, especially in the music industry and stuff. There's no rules anymore. Anyone who tells you that they know what to do or that they know what they're

doing, they're so full as shit, dog. Nobody knows what they're doing. Yeah. And like, we want, we want people to know, because we want to ask, like, what could I do to, you know, to have, to be successful or whatever then nobody knows no nobody knows and there's no gatekeepers or anything like that all you have to do is want to play music yeah and then go and do it on your phone and see if anyone likes you and if they like you you're you know that's good yeah then everybody will come to you and say i know how to make this bigger and they don't know what they're talking about either no they're generally they're vampires and they're trying to take a piece yeah they're trying to clamp on to you oh they they come out of the woodwork dog have you have people offer you a bunch not a bunch

but they'll offer you a little for a lot you know a little for a lot yeah they want your future right yeah they'll go i you know here's there are all sorts of folks in the in the early days coming through labels and stuff going here's we'll give you 10 grand for like 30 songs or something like that and it's like this is insulting yeah i don't want any of this i don't want any i don't need any of this oliver anthony was going through that right after rich men from richmond right richmond north of richmond a song came out like they just came after him with all this money oh they will all these asses all this fucking promises they will all this money they give you so much up front and you don't even like if you don't know it's just a big ass loan that you're never going to recoup

and then you're you're not even you're not living off your own dough at that you're that point you just living off of borrowed money like everybody else in the states and you're attached to them forever yeah you're attached to them forever they just they own your master's you'll never see it back i mean i i signed to a label when i was like 22 i've been through that all that crap how old are you now i'm 47 are you really no no no i'm gonna be 33 this year but yeah i believe you i was like man kids living good no I'm just

joshing you but you know this is a new time where you really can become hugely successful and get a gigantic following with no one

attached to you yeah well you don't you don't have to have all those people put they're not going to help you no they don't too many cooks in the kitchen

way too many people wanting to sign off and too many people eating at the dinner plate and dude when anybody gives you Like if the label comes in, let's say Chris took, let's say he took the deal, you know, or whatever. If Oliver Anthony took the big deal.

Then he's got all these people up there in the office with tax write off MacBooks telling him what to do with his music because they open their wallet. And they're going to have to give you notes. They're entitled to give you their opinion at that point. And he wouldn't be able to just do whatever the hell he wants to do. Yeah. You know? And I think it's so important for artists to be. able to do whatever the hell they want to do because that's the only way they can be themselves

exactly and then that's the only way you can be successful is to completely be yourself at all times 100 percent nothing but yourself and you see that one thing that does happen when people do take the money is that part goes away because even though you think you're kind of sort of being yourself everybody knows you're not totally you're not totally being yourself anymore and dole will change your life in a in a in a way that that you might not like be ready for something it's going to you're going think i got this dough now i can i can leave this town i don't like or i can get the house that i was wanting when it was really it was it was being in that town and kind of having things difficult pressures around you and stuff that was creating these diamonds that was putting you in

the situation to make good art and stuff like that yeah and you take away all your discomfort and then realize you can't make art and you're not happy and then you start getting nostalgic about the good old days when you were broke and shit like that it's just it's better it's it's better to just take only what you need well then there's also the problem once you become successful of worrying about not being successful anymore about maintaining it that's terrifying sure I've got to keep this going. Like, I can't, I can't fall off. But if you can't be less successful, I can't, I used to be poor and now I've got money.

I got to make sure this doesn't go away. It's how you measure. And you, like, temper your thoughts and you measure, you're measured in what you say. No, no, it's, it's, it's, it, your measure of success is like, how much can I be myself and, uh, and be happy, be happy that way. If you can still be 100% yourself all the way to the end of the line, then that's your success. Yeah. But that's a smart way of looking at things. Most people look at things in terms of like what is the way that's the most profitable?

You know, so they'll avoid certain controversies. But we know that, like, we know even from talking about like people whose business, whose art is money, it creates misery to be chasing the bank account, to constantly have the dough. you know like you create a wake of you create bad art all right your album starts to suck you might be getting in bigger bigger places and stuff like that but yeah it's gonna it's gonna fall off and when it does you know then then you have like some existential problems to deal with at that point well there's always the devil's bargain right there's that that that fucking story is as old as time that's the robert johnson story right right Right. I thought he sold his soul.

Yeah. Yeah. Van Halen definitely sold his soul to the devil. You think so? No. I don't... I look like Eddie Van Halen, dude. You look a little like Eddie Van Halen.

I fucking love Eddie Van Halen. Yeah, he's the man. Oh my God. He was the man. He's the Robert Johnson of the late 70s. Angus Young sold his soul. Isn't it funny, though, that that story was like always around the story of selling your soul for success? Yeah.

it's an interesting metaphor it doesn't but it doesn't make any sense as far as like robert john he's like he sold his soul i guess so he could play and then not be successful in his lifetime and die poor and then we would all find him later and enjoy it think the thought was that he was so much better than everybody else there's no way he could have gone that far ahead without some help right he's spooky good yeah he's spooky good he's working in the future but that's always there's always guys like that like hendricks if anybody sold their soul it's hendricks yeah not that i think he did but it's like when that guy came around everybody was like what the fuck is going on like and every generation there's a player man yep and i mean maybe you could trace the line johnson hendricks that's skipping a few

but to hendricks edy van halen and then you've got like steve vi and jos atriani and like these virtuos stevie ravean so important to texas too stevie We have a photo of him on stage at our club Because, you know, I own this place That used to be a theater that he performed at Okay And there's a photo of him on stage in 1983 So as you're walking to the stage

There's a photo of Steve Ray Vaughn on stage In your back He's so cool I don't know if you've seen like him at like Austin City Limits Slinging his guitar behind his back Oh he's the coolest Playing with his teeth He's got all his scarfs and stuff

I almost got to drive him once When I was driving limos but he wouldn't take limos. What did you want? I drove Jeff Beck. He wouldn't take limos. He only took cabs. Okay.

They'd get him a limo and he's like, eh, I'm getting in a cab. Okay. He'd hop in a cab and talk to the cab driver. He didn't want to be Mr. Fancy in a fucking limo. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Salt of the Earth, dude. I was pissed, though.

It's like, fuck. Yeah. Almost got to drive Steve Ray Vaughn. It was one of those talents every generation. But it also shows you how dumb. And dumb limo drivers are, like the companies, like you let a fucking psycho like me, a 21-year-old maniac, drive one of the greatest guitars of all time. Like, I was a bad driver. Like, it was a reckless kid.

Like, all of a sudden, I had this job driving limos because I wore a suit. Like, you're going to trust me? Well, I... Steve or Avon. I mean, safer than the helicopter pilots and stuff. In the end, yes. No, I'm just kidding. I mean, I was a good driver when I was driving limos.

I bet you were a great driver. Thank you. But it is kind of crazy that they let a 21-year-old maid just at the helm of a car with one of the greatest musicians of all time in the backseat. It's always, it's fun to think back on that. Like when I was 18, I did a radio program for KDYN Real Country Radio every Saturday morning. It was called Dial a Deal, where people call in. It was basically like an on-air Craigslist, you know. but I was alone at the station after football games, you know, football game would be like Friday night, go to bed, all beat up, wake up at like 5 a.m., go into the station, record the obituaries real quick, because those are going to run on Saturday, and then do like a, you know, an on-air Craigslist radio program, and you're just like 17 years old with the entire radio station to yourself.

Wow. I was a total dumb ass, too. I could have been like, anyway, here's Graham. funk railroad you know but did you have a specific list of things you're supposed to play uh the list was like programmed in and then you had to record weather so you would pull up the national weather service on the on the screen and then you would record yourself doing the weather saying you know winds are going to be southeast south southeast northwest out of 15 miles an hour or whatever you do the obituaries but um no you didn't actually DJ it was just like You would hit the space bar, music would start playing and be like,

okay, folks, if you can't tell by the music, I'll go ahead and tell you myself, it's time for dial a deal. Remember, our numbers up here are 667-4567 or toll-free at 888-3-25-KDYN. That's 88-8-8-8-8-2-5, Katie-Y. Remember, no commercial real estate advertisement. Please let me get calls to once per program. And keep in mind, I can't always keep track of these numbers up here myself. So if you remember them on your end, you're doing me and you a favor.

let's get back to the dialing and a dealing and then people would call in and they'd be like i'm looking for my dog and i'd be like somebody find that dog and then you know list off their number or uh did you ever play any of your songs no no it was a classic country radio station so i'm up there listening to like willie wailing Hank senior Hank junior and then also they were playing they were playing like some modern like i remember brad paisley was being played on here and he just shredded but no i couldn't i couldn't i was in a grunge band at the time i couldn't play what you really yeah i think that yeah the i couldn't put once i printed out the track listing uh for the record that i had made i would i would make cd records and sell them at school like

five bucks a pie i made more money selling records in high school than i ever did as an adult but you'd printed out all the songlist anyway the album was called mom i'm gay and all the uh i left a bunch of them like at the radio station i remember the guy who was running it he came to me and he was like did you print these out are these yours and it was just kind of awkward after that but a small town in arkansas is kind of far out that's funny but you know folks will let a young person do all kinds of stuff

I guess they see an aptitude in you they trust you so they let you drive a limo I think they just needed a job they needed someone to do the job it's that simple and most people would only temporarily keep that job

and they would leave right high turnover yeah there's high turnover at the radio station because we weren't making any dough right you know what year was this This was in 1927, no, 2010, 2011.

I used to do a lot of radio when I was young and doing the road. So I'd do like morning radio shows in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. And it was the only way to promote things. Like, say if you're going to do some gig in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, like you get on local radio, you tell everybody, drive-time radio. So you're on the air, it's like 6.30 in the morning. Yeah. And let everybody know you're going.

on their radio was a weird thing man because it was like a local connection and all that stuff is kind of gone now you know local connection used to be fun it was there was something about listening to the local radio in the morning when you're on your way to work that was kind of cool it was great and you knew that all most of your friends were listening to right you know they had a program called like I forget what it was but on every morning they would go through through the sponsors of the radio station which were all local businesses and they would say here's a cup of coffee for burns drug and it was just like a call out to burns drug burns pharmacy or whatever and then you'd hear the sound of a coffee cup the obituaries ran you'd listen to them

you'd be like oh jeanine died damn it we had go to the memorial uh they would tell what the hillbillies like the mascot was the hillbillies and like how high school football was doing and stuff like that i wonder if anybody's creating that in podcasts i wonder if there's any good local podcasts that are just about the community that you could like tune into every day like here's the news you know i might have to start one why not this local anonymous and local yeah just don't even say it's you make up another name yeah yeah this is bob butts and people go i know what that is no you don't I heard that dude. I'm not who you.

You're going to do a different voice? I know you, but you don't know me. Are you going to change your voice? You should do that. No, I can do the local news with one of those things like an FBI informant. We went into the house at 4.30 in the morning. You know? You know what I mean?

Those are spooky. When they have those people on TV with their face blacked out? Those vice. Are you sure that the government was involved? 100%. They had to know. the information came down from the top show their face

yeah show their face they get them killed oh man how many do you do a lot of live gigs yeah how many live gigs do you do do like in a week do you do a bunch like how do you do it

no I just scheduled tours so like tomorrow I'll announce a tour and I think it's like 20 something dates and then I'll go out for two months and play you know you just play solo do you bring no i bring a band oh that's cool a whole band um and then right now i've just been in festival season so i just played the newport

folk fest shout out newport do you do any of these songs like united health oh yeah you do all them yeah nice i got because i i'm just always putting out albums like yeah like on friday i'll put out another record too how many albums do you have so far like five or six I wrote like a hundred songs in 24 and just like put them all out and that's what's great about being indie is like you can just put out music as soon as you make it right so um so there's but there's a lot of tunes to choose from right usually you know on the set I'll play a lot of these uh a lot of these topical ones and then bring the band up and then we'll play the other records that I got um

But, no, I was just at Newport, and then we did Edmonton Folkfest. And hearing a little bit, I'll do Farm Aid and Healing Appalachia. Farmede was, like last year around this time, John Cougar Mellencamp sent me an email and was like, Jesse, I would like you to play at Farmaid. But it was from a weird email address, and I didn't believe it was him. But it was totally him. email and through his like girlfriend's email or something that's hilarious and so i like i showed it to uh to one of the like one of my friends he has managed and he's like i'll vet this out we'll see if this is legit and sure enough it was anyway go down to farm aid and that's like one of the

first gigs that i play as this iteration of myself um but got to you know got to me a lot of cool people and get to be friends with with a lot of them too. Lucas Nelson is very cool to meet him last year and now I think we'll be doing a tune together here before too long but nice him I got to meet Charlie over there at Farm Aid Charlie Crockett oh Charlie's awesome

I really enjoyed talking to him yeah he's great he was a great guest what a wildlife that guy's lived yeah that's like that comes out in his music there's something about like hard living like living an authentically difficult life that like you hear it in the way they sing yeah you hear it's real yeah you know like there's like an intangible element to certain songs you know it's how it be yeah yeah well AI's not gonna fix that they're not gonna you know what I mean like AI's not gonna overcome that no I don't

that's the maybe the only thing that AI is not gonna over come i would be worried i don't understand why musicians are you know they're they're making like let me i'm gonna send you something jamie i don't know if you've seen this where they made a female indie like emo whatever it would be band lady and it's really fucking good yeah like you listen to it you're like holy shit i sent it to uh Patrick uh from uh the black keys Patrick carrick and uh and his answer was like pop music is AI has been for a while good thing I suck at drums and make it human yeah uh I'm gonna send this to Jamie because you you you hear it and you're like oh my god this could be a fucking giant hit and the crazy thing is that AI makes this in seconds right I mean in literal seconds like you watch this guy put in the prompts you watch it make this song and then you listen to the song and you're like right oh my god

and it's better than most of these songs like listen to this create a square avatar of a fictitious female alternative slash indie singer and a name for her wow save winners Sadie Winners okay instantly is about walking away from someone

who never really saw her worth it's just going to create the song lyrics look at that wait how many seconds was that that was like about four seconds look at that that's got a bridge Did you even read any of these? You don't care.

I don't care. Put my lyrics in. The lyrics that happened in four seconds. Yes. And then hit create. Let's listen. This is the world premiere. I was paid for you.

You were scissors. Cut me out. She's a good singer. Good singer. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Oh, that's nice.

Nice. Pretty good. Where are we, Rick? Where have we found ourselves? How crazy is that? I mean, it's pretty amazing. Jewel even says, Jewel goes, wow, it's a great melody.

Yeah, listen, everything that can be replaced will be replaced. Okay? And pop music was already AI. Patrick has a great point. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think artists, if you, what you're making.

I don't think you got nothing to worry about. Well, it's not a worry. I mean, for some people, I'm sure it's a worry. But it also is just a concern that there's a new element of society. That there's creativity is being replaced in at least a form right in front of our eyes. Regardless of what you think about pop music, there are some people that are making pop music as a creative endeavor. and that just did it way better than they do and did it like like that

they'll have to find something else to do they'll have to find something else to do I want to listen to something else in JCPenny talk who still goes to J.C. Penny are they still around is there at J.C. Penny? Yeah.

At where you are? I go J.C. Penny. I'm not knocking it. I'd go if I needed something. I'm just saying I haven't seen one in a long time. They're out there. I see targets everywhere. I don't see J.C. Penny anyway.

I just say the music like that always yeah i feel like i'm in a yeah i feel like i'm in academy or or yeah yeah right you're buying sneakers somewhere it just need something to go in the background some non-confrontational music to yeah carry you through but what you said i think is right that if you can be replaced you will be replaced yeah all things that can be replaced will be replaced it's how it has always been as long as man has been around everything that can be replaced will be replaced but there are things that are irreplaceable right yeah i mean that's kind of in every every new iteration of technology we're seeing things get replaced right right like when i was a bit a kid um vhs was the

newest technology like oh my god you could watch a movie at home yeah no one ever thought blockbuster was ever going to go away of course there's always going to be a blockbuster right every friday night everybody goes to blockbuster to find a movie to watch gone yeah doesn't exist anymore gone like that Like real quick. Streaming, internet speeds, pick up, it's over. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, remember record sales?

Oh my goodness. They would be like millions and millions and millions just from selling records. Now it all went away. Napster came along and some people freaked out and, you know, some people lost a lot of fans because they freaked out too, like to try to stop the tide of inevitability. I mean, Heptfield and, I mean, Metallica was eventually kind of right about what they said. about Napster, right? Oh, they knew.

Yeah. They knew what was... Well, they knew it was going away. Yeah. It was all going away. I mean, everybody kind of understood that this is... If you're logical and objective, you could pretend, like, oh, don't worry, we're going to be fine.

But if you're logical, an objective, you go, oh, this is just the first bullet that landed in this never-ending war with digital information. Like, you're not going to be able to prevent this from happening. Yeah. I think the record companies have figured out how to make... money off of streaming and to make sure that the artist probably doesn't get all that much of it well this is the beautiful thing about being independent if you're independent you can make money off of streaming and if you're independent you had all

of your touring road now which is really where it's at you get all of it you make enough to pay for another door well it depends on all successful but this is what's really crazy about some of the deals that some of these artists are signing where the label gets a giant percentage of their touring money which did used to be the case it used to be like an artist they got to find a way to pull it in somehow they're not selling the records exactly they get a piece of merch they get a piece of this they get a piece of everything they just own you yeah and what value do they provide other than you getting the security of saying i'm on warner brothers just standing in the way every time you

try to put out an album they go i don't hear a hit here it's like well because there are none okay wait for the next record it's out in two months you know but they want to make as as much as they possibly can off a one record and the one record it puts an immense amount of pressure on an artist without without developing the artist at all uh it's what's honor it's the music industry is a shallow money trench where good men die like dogs you know um it's a racket but don't you think that now less of it because there are people like you out there there's quote you know tyler the creator didn't he make most of his everything it was just created by himself online

right? I don't know. Isn't that the case? You don't know? You don't know? That's too hard. I don't know. Who knows? Was it a weird one? Him specifically, I don't know, but I would say that's the story that's being told. Okay, but some people have done it. Oliver Anthony for sure did it.

Yeah, yeah. And it's a new pathway. If you have something that really resonates, like your United Health song or any of your songs, like that's all you need you know and then yeah that one thing can change everything and then people listen mm-hmm totally yeah and the fact that you're able to do it completely independently you're able to have like a truly authentic voice like it's like when you sing about who's the guy that created it that doesn't give a fuck what's his name richard t burke yeah richard t burke that you can sing about richard t burke doesn't doesn't

give a fuck like it's no one's in your ear nobody's telling you to be careful no one yeah yeah so like i'm hearing i'm like yeah you know it it people know they know when something is authentic it's real weird they're fucking the way people tune into a song it's there's something going on with songs you know it's it's not just like a bunch of music and a bunch of lyrics like it changes the way feel yeah it's a drug yeah it's a weird like a good song is like a good drug yeah dude have you heard freebird oh fuck yeah dude i've heard that song about a thousand more than a thousand times yeah a hundred thousand times maybe yeah yeah if you don't think music's a joke listen to freebeer listen to that fucking guitar solo running with the devil oh yeah yeah yeah yeah whole lot of love

Don't don't know Don't Yeah It's fired up There's songs There's songs that change The way you feel That if that was a drug

That would be a very valuable drug Yeah You know They're little Mood capsules man Yeah I want to feel melancholy Here's yesterday by the Beatles

Right Right Yesterday Yeah there's a bunch of songs Like Captain Jack You know Captain Jack Captain Jack

Captain Jack We'll get you high tonight Oh, I was thinking It's a Captain fantastic Elton John Captain Jack is one of Billy Joel's greatest songs It's a great fucking song

He's a guy living on Long Island It's a great It's a great song So you listen to it You're like God damn he nailed it He fucking nailed it He's one of the greats man

Dude I really appreciate you coming in And I really love what you're doing Thanks for having I just wanted to Want to have you in here Shoot the shit with you See what your process was

and how you think about things. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me, Joe. My pleasure. Tell everybody what's the best place to find you and find your stuff? I'm online. So, you know, get online.

Do you have a, what is your Instagram? Wells, Music. Wells Music. There it is. W-E-L-L-E-S. Yeah. So it's Wells Music.com. Tour dates.

We're all there. Yeah. Go out and see. see them support dude continued success and best of luck to you I really enjoy what you're doing

thanks very much my pleasure brother all right goodbye everybody