The Joe Rogan Experience - #2368 - Michael Button

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

Michael Button is a YouTuber whose videos investigate mysteries in ancient history.  www.youtube.com/@MichaelButton1 Unlock yourself at https://join.WHOOP.com/jre for one month free Get anything delivered on Uber Eats. https://ubereats.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Hey, Joe. Good to see you, man. You too, man. Pleasure. I love your channel, man.

It's really great. Thank you. You're really doing some really interesting videos. When did you get started? Thanks. Well, I only started the YouTube less than a year ago. That's crazy. It's been a bit of a while.

ride. I don't even know how I found it. It was like one of them YouTube recommends things. It just popped up and I don't remember which one it was. It was something on ancient history. Yeah. And I was like, oh, all right. Yeah, it was cool. I mean, yeah, I started just under a year ago but no one started watching until like March and then I think you see me just after that point and it's been a bit of a big, you know, journey since then upwards and but it's been very exciting and very happy to be here today very excited to be in austin and uh yeah looking forward to talk about some ancient history so did you start off on a traditional academic journey and then sort of get sidetracked into a youtube career like how this work yeah basically so i studied ancient

history at university for four years um and i've always been interested in history i've done history all the way through like i was fascinated about history as a kid and got to the stage of my life where it was you know, thinking about going to university, so I thought, I'll do ancient history at university and study there for four years, graduated, all of that kind of stuff. But there came a point during my degree where I was kind of, you know, a little bit, I didn't quite agree with the kind of high-level ideas regarding the timeline of history and what we're taught about our ancient past. And it wasn't that I disputed anything that I'd been taught, and I have like great respect for the people that I met at university and my professors.

and I don't dispute anything that we were taught actually on the course, but it was more the kind of high-level macro perspective of history that I found myself having more and more questions about. And yeah, so what bothered you? Like, what were the questions? It was kind of the big questions regarding the origins of civilization and how deep civilization goes and how complex human behavior, you know, I thought went way back further into history than what we were being taught.

And I wasn't too, I just didn't buy this idea that nothing happened for like vast stretch of time. Because it was during my course that they found that modern humans, they made this discovery in Morocco in 2017 or 2018, I think. And that was when I was at university. Is that denisovans? No, no, Homo sapiens. So I can't remember this. It's called like the Jebel-Irude site or something like that. But they were modern Homo sapiens remains.

They thought they were in Neanderthal initially because they were so old. How old were they? They're 315,000 years old. That's kind of like the estimate. It goes up to potentially 360,000 years old. So they're super old. And yeah, they thought they were initially Neanderthal because of this age, but then they discovered a few more.

And they were, they classified them as homo sapien. And when I saw that, I was like, how is this not kicking up more of a fuss? Because before them, the oldest homo sapien remains we had were around 200,000 years old. And that had been the case for like a decade or something. And before that, it was like 100,000 years old. So this discovery pushed back the age of a year. our species by another third, like a hundred thousand years. So I saw that and I was thinking like

how are we still basing our kind of idea of history around the fact that nothing happened for you know, 310,000 years and then everything happened in like the last, you know, 10,000 years since the Neolithic Revolution. I just thought that was odd because, you know, we've been in this anatomically modern form for so long and yet we were being taught that nothing was, nothing had happened until, you know, the last 10,000 years and that just didn't make sense to me. So that's kind of where when I started thinking about it and then we did this module at university I remember called

it was called something like cataclysms or something and it was all about how in recorded history natural disaster had a big impact on human societies and stuff like that and how small tiny changes in climate could massively disrupt human civilization and bring them all crashing down

and the case study they used was something called the late Bronze Age collapse have you ever heard the late Bronze Age collapse? Yeah it's when all these like powerful influential civilizations at the kind of peak of human progress around 1,000 BC all simultaneously came crashing down and no one was quite sure why it was, but the best theory we have is that it's like a kind of combination of climate

factors which led to trade disruption, which led to societal unrest. And then all these empires like the Hittite empire, the Syrian empire, the palaces and Miscene in Greece, the Egyptian New Kingdom, all within a 20 to 30, 40 year period, all came crashing down at the exact same time. And I remember being hooked by that. I was like, that's so crazy. Like, we don't even know why this happened, but it was like a half-degree changing climate. And so I remember starting to research how, you know, bad climate had been during history

and how bad it had been, like, these big climatic episodes had been during prehistory. And I started thinking, like, wow, if that had caused all these civilizations to collapse, just a tiny half-degree change in climate, which caused drought, which led to those civilizations collapsing, some of the stuff that had been happening during prehistory was so much worse than that. And that got me thinking, like, how do we know that sophisticated human culture hadn't flourished, you know, 10,000 years ago, 20,000 years ago, 100,000 years ago, 200,000 years ago, and collapsed due to climate change or natural disaster, volcanoes, comet impacts, anything like that. And that's kind of what set me on the journey, that along with the, you know, the discovery of the remains in Morocco. And that really got me thinking about the story we've told regarding our past and how I wasn't quite sure. and yeah that's kind of what made me initially kind of break away from the traditional timeline that we were being taught

the term prehistory is weird isn't it because it's like according to what what we find yeah you know mean how do we know what historical if there was a great cataclysm like if the younger dryest impact theory is correct what you know how much history would be written down what would be left how would you find it what would you know You know, we're, we're, we're, that's one of the things that disturbs me the most is the arrogance that some academics have to having a definitive understanding of the exact timeline of agriculture, civilization, and then modern humans. Yeah, it annoys me. I feel like academics as opposed to the alternative historians are kind of more saying, we don't know, but here's a potential hypothetical scenario that could be possible. Whereas I feel like more mainstream for one of a better word, I don't really like. using that because I don't think there's such thing as a mainstream. It's not like there's a group of people that all collectively decide, but some particularly vocal mainstream kind of historians and scientists

seem to claim to know absolute truth about the past, and that's just stupid. Like, how can anyone know about what happened 100,000 years ago or 200,000 years ago? And it kind of gets me a little bit riled up because at the end of the day, none of us know what happened back then. So I think a lot more possibilities are, you know, possible than what many people. people appreciate and yeah did you ever see there was a video documentary back in the day something about the mysteries of the sphinx and um there was this archaeologist that was

mocking uh graham hancock's ideas and dr robert chalk's ideas about the timeline saying you know talking about things that existed pre 10,000 years and he was saying whatever he was like laughing. What evidence is there of any civilization from 10,000 years ago? This was literally I think around the same time that they

discovered Go Beckley-Tepi. Like this guy was mocking it. I think slightly thereafter they discovered Go-Bekly-Tepi, which threw everything into a tizzy because now you've got something that was absolutely covered

they believe intentionally, somewhere in the neighborhood of 11,000 years ago. Yeah, I think Gebeckli-Tepe is the biggest kind of smoking gun, at least for the idea that civilization is older and more complex than the traditional model suggests, because obviously, as you say, it's like 12,000 years old, and it's massive megalithic pillars. I mean, you know about Gebeckley-Tepi.

Probably most people listening to this will know about Gebeckley-Tepe, but it's such a clear sign that sophisticated human culture was present way earlier than the conventional timeline suggests. And I think that at least should throw a monkey wrench into a lot of these people's ideas regarding human civilization and when it began because clearly the toolkit for civilization existed 12,000 years ago. So why couldn't it have existed a little bit earlier than that?

And why, if it existed then, did it then take another 6,000 years for it to emerge in ancient Sumer, which is the kind of traditional thought to be the earliest civilization? So Quebecli Tepe is fascinating. I love it. It's a really interesting site. I think it will one day be classed as civilisation. I'm almost certain that when enough time passes,

we'll kind of look at that. Because it's a whole culture, the whole Tashdepella culture, there's like 14 sites at least. And they all have this kind of megalithic architecture. They all have shared symbolism. They all clearly connected. It's crazy how it's not defined as anything other than hunter-gatherers. And even if you think that hunter-gatherers built Quebec-le-Tepa,

then you need to massively update the definition. of what a hunter-gatherer is, because clearly they had surplus. They weren't just building these sites in their spare time. And, yeah, it's a truly paradigm-shifting site. But, I mean, everyone kind of knows about Quebec. But not everyone. But also, as spectacular as what they've discovered so far is, they have only unearthed 5% of it, which is even more bizarre. Because you've got so much stuff that's underground.

You have no idea what's on those pillars. You know, there's speculation that one of the pillars from Gobeckley-Tepi that is unearth is some sort of a calendar of events, and they believe that it depicts some sort of a disaster, like that these, whatever, how they're making these images to be associated with either an impact or something, but there's a timeline that's inscribed in these pillars. Yeah, there's like a study that was written or a paper that was written, and they, think it's the pillar 43, I think it is, is kind of like a cosmic calendar and it's like almost a prediction model of an impact that could happen or already has happened and it's like a warning for the future. I mean, that is still disputed, but I mean, there's been good research that's done into that that suggests that's what it is. And it's certainly a site that has cosmic alignments and has been built with the stars in mind, which is something that we can

say about so many ancient sites around the world, which is another thing that isn't really considered by quote unquote mainstream archaeology perhaps as much as it should be so yeah it's a fascinating site and I really think it displays a lot about how human ingenuity and

civilization for I mean people get a bit stuck with the word civilization because we have this a very narrow definition of what civilization is and it's basically based on the old model of Mesopotamia which is ancient Sumer and of course that was the earliest known civilization for so long we kind of

constructed this whole idea about what a civilization is purely based on Mesopotamia. But I don't see why that has to be what civilization is because that was just one civilization and just because that was the earliest one we'd found for a long time and still is thought of as such doesn't mean that that's the only way that humanity can flourish because humans are so adaptable. We do so many different things and we're clever in different ways and we, you know, change to different environments. And I think that definition has really kept a lot of people kind of boxed in when thinking about how sophisticated human culture could flourish in different places in different environments and with different

pressures and I think that's kind of forced people to not consider what other possibilities are out there I think it's even more fascinating if you consider the fact that ancient Sumer and you know that that part of the world from about 6,000 years ago is where they're sort of hanging their hat saying that this is the birthplace of civilization. But if you do have this evidence of Gobeckley-Tepi, and then we are talking about some sort of an ancient civilization that lived 12,000 years ago, like what happened? What happened? Like, what was the gap between that and then it took 6,000 years before they started civilization back up again, sort of a reimagining of civilization, which makes you really, at least makes me

really consider the possibility of a cataclysm, because if the people that survived, whatever they would be. You know, I mean, they would probably be living off the land. They'd probably be barely getting by and barbaric for a long, long time. And if it really took 6,000 years to kind of like settle down again, that that is fascinating to me. Yeah. And it all ties into this idea that we've had that agriculture leads to civilization. But there's that bizarre thing that, you know, agriculture appears in multiple different places that pretty much the exact same. time all over the world and that's never made sense to me because if agriculture was such a kind of vital invention for civilization to flourish then why did no one invent it for you know

310,000 years right and then in south america in mesopotamia in ancient china and you could argue there's other different places that so say there's like south america and there's central america i mean you could argue that's potentially connected but a lot of people say it isn't so how can agriculture if it's such an incredible invention be invented by multiple people at the same time and then but no one else thought of it before i mean it doesn't it doesn't make sense to me it doesn't make any sense it doesn't make any sense they wouldn't figure out seeds like how how do you not know eventually that these seeds are dropping and then you see seedlings that are coming out of the ground just that seems pretty logical and an easy connection

and then you'd say oh well if we gather these seeds and go plant them over there you know, maybe we can get some fruit trees over here. Yeah. Oh, look at that. It worked. Like, that doesn't, that seems like you'd figure that out in one lifetime. I know. But I think the idea is, the idea always has been that it's because of the climate, right?

So because of the Holocene, which is, which began around 12,000 years ago, as we came out of that, and we had kind of stable climate conditions that we still live in today, that's what enabled the invention of agriculture, right? But then the question I always ask is, well, what about all the other warm periods that have come in the past, if as the idea is that, you know, stable climate led to agriculture, then why couldn't such a thing have happened in the Eamian period 120,000 years ago? There's been four distinct warm periods that have lasted for like over 10,000 years while modern humans have been around, at least. And obviously, these Morocco remains of Homo sapiens, it's unlikely they're the

earliest homo sapiens that ever lived. They're just the earliest we found. So we could be even older than that. So considering we've been through four distinct warm period before the Holocene, and if the argument is that the Holocene was what led to the invention of agriculture due to the stable climate, then why couldn't it have happened in the earlier warm periods? That's the question I've always asked myself and been fascinated by. And the real problem is there would be very little evidence, if any. Yeah, so this is the preservation problem, and this is something I talk about in my videos. So I kind of always ask the question, like, what if a human culture had flourished in the Eamian, for example,

which was from 130 to 115,000 years ago, what realistically would survive? Because it's such a vast, vast length of time that it's really unlikely, at least as far as I can tell, and obviously I'm not a scientist, I'm not like a, you know, a materials. I'm not any kind of, I'm just a guy. I'm not even a historian technically. But as far as I can tell, it's extremely hard for any materials,

but even our modern materials in our huge, civilization that, you know, 8 billion people, industrial society, sending rockets to space, you know, all the crazy stuff that we're doing. Even us, if we disappear tomorrow, I think it would be extremely unlikely that pretty much anything would survive when you get up to these huge timescales of like 100,000 years. And so I've been doing quite a lot of, you know, research into this. And because I don't, I obviously don't want to, you know, get things wrong and put falsehoods out there and mislead people. I don't want to look like a dickhead in front of like, like, Like millions of people or whatever.

So I've been trying to like, you know, debunk myself or play devil's advocate to myself on this point because, you know, that's the best way to make your argument airtight and no one's really out there debunking me. I don't know if that's because I'm right or because like no one knows me. Maybe that would change after a show like this. But I've been really looking into the kind of degradation

of modern materials as much as I can and trying to work out how much would survive from a civilization like ours. if we disappeared tomorrow in 100,000 years time. Right, like someplace like London or Manhattan. Yeah, yeah. What would be left in 100,000 years? Yeah, of like an actual modern city.

And the scary truth is, it's almost nothing. Like, they're really, as far as I can tell. Cement buildings, they would just deteriorate? They would go, like, concrete would crack and you'd get CO2 in there and freeze thore weathering. And over these huge timescales of like 5,000 years, 10,000 years, they would just crumble down into dust. and be absolutely imperceptible. Just 10,000 years.

I think so. Obviously, these, I mean, I'm just doing this off the top of my head. I haven't got any notes in front of me or anything, but as far as I could tell from my research, it's going to be a few like 10,000 years, 20,000 years max. It's not going to get up to these timescales of 100,000 years. So if you do add in, if you think about what Manhattan would look like in 100,000 years, it's almost nothing.

I would say it was nothing, to be honest. And it would just get overrun by trees again. Yeah, because there's just, just there's just such an incredible amount of time that all these materials that we build with are just going to corrode and they're going to they're going to rust away if they're metals they're going to oxidize they're going to flake until they're just tiny little fragments that just disperse in the sedimentary record and they're just invisible to see and same with concrete same with even things like glass i've heard a lot of people say that glass would potentially

survive because glass is a you know it's a very durable material and glass would survive a long time, but glass in the form of a human-made recognisable artefact isn't going to survive in that form. It's going to get crushed. It's going to break away into tiny little nanofragments, into silica grains that are just invisible in the kind of archaeological record when you get up to these huge levels of time. And yeah, I mean, there's, I would say almost nothing would survive that long. And again, with the caveat that I'm just some random dude who's investigated this on the internet and research this myself, not a scientist. If anyone out there is, is a material scientist. I encourage them to reach out to me, but as far as I can tell,

there are very few things that could possibly survive that long. I mean, we're pretty crazy fucking apes, like we do crazy shit. So things like nuclear weapons, like we test nuclear weapons in the atmosphere. You could argue if we knew when to look and what to look for, we could see traces of plutonium in the atmosphere from our nuclear weapons testing, or you could see our nuclear waste deposits. Or things like carved stone, because stone obviously survives a very long time. Human carved stone, you'd be able to find that. But we do find that. We find, you know, stone tools. But just because ancient humans use stone tools doesn't mean they didn't use anything else. It's just stone is the most likely thing to survive. And the

crazy thing is, like, Joe, do you know how many sites we have, Homo sapien sites from more than 100,000 years ago? How many? Nine. We have nine sites, nine glimpses, nine snapshots into over 200,000 years of history, nine moments in time. And we use that to extrapolate out what every single human was doing. Nine globally. Nine globally, yeah. This episode is brought to you by WOOP. You probably heard me talk about WOOP before, but if you hadn't, here is the rundown. With Woop, the goal isn't just to live longer, it's to live better. Well, Woop sent me their latest tracker, the Woop 5.0, and I love it. I love all the new features, especially the new battery. It lasts for over two weeks on a single charge so you never miss a beat. But there's one new feature that's really,

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Africa. And so what do they find? Like, what is the evidence? It's usually caves, and it's usually just, you know, remains of fire pits and stone tools. And that's kind of it. And so we see that, and we think, okay, they just lived in caves and used stone tools. Right. But it's nine sites, nine moments in time for 200,000 years.

Well, the problem is there's people that essentially live like that right now in some parts of the world, which is really weird, right? Because we always want to think about technology and advancement of civilization being sort of universal, but it's really not. You know, there's people that are living a subsistence lifestyle right now. There's people that are uncontacted right now. At the same time as Elon Musk sending rockets to Mars and shit, yeah. Right. I mean, that's the weirdest ones is when you see them get invaded in the Amazon. When you see them contact these people and they're pointing bows and arrows at helicopters. Yeah. And, you know, they're naked.

Yeah, exactly. We're so adaptable. Humans can do so many different things. And as you say, right now, we're sending rockets to space and people are living in very traditional ways of life. And that just because we find traditional ways of life in a repeat, nine sites to cover 200,000 years, in my view that's just what we can see that's just the own that kind of points to my point regarding what would possibly survive because if you think of all the human lives stories cultures that have potentially existed for our whole species existence if we only have nine little glimpses from and to be fair that nine is you could say it's up to 15 because some sites are debated but either way it's a tiny tiny tiny amount of human you know signs of

human life. Just because in that fragment, in that snapshot, in that slither, all we see is some humans with stone tools in caves, doesn't mean that nothing else was happening. Well, a good piece of evidence to that that would point in that direction is Egypt. Because Egypt, even if you accept the conventional timeline of Egypt, which is 2,500 BC for the Great Pyramid, go look at the rest of the world at 2,500 BC. You don't see anything like that. even close. Yeah, they were clearly, even if you kind of look at the conventional model of history, the ancient Egyptians were wildly ahead of everyone. Everyone. It's just so weird. So weird. And that's if you, and the conventional model doesn't really give us any

explanations of how they were doing what they were doing. And they arrogantly dismiss any other explanations, which is really weird. When you're talking about these immense structures that are baffling, absolutely baffling to anybody who's being honest. What is your take on these Italian researchers that are looking at the tomography and they're looking at these things that they believe are underneath the Great Pyramid and some other structures in Egypt? Yeah, the kind of, the, what's it called, like, SARS-Topler, I mean, I don't know. I'm always a little bit suspicious when you make sensationalist claims with new technology. And that doesn't mean it's wrong.

I just, that just, that just kind of is my... Yeah, you have to be suspicious because it's bonkers. It's crazy. What they're saying is two kilometers deep underneath the Great Pyramid, there's structures. and there's hundreds of meters of these pylons, these pillars that are in uniform positions with some sort of a coil wrapped under around them. Like, what is that? Is that real?

And they reproduce it in multiple different scans, but I don't know what they're seeing. I don't understand the technology. I understand where the errors could be. Like, what could possibly cause it to glitch like that? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I would love it to be true. I would love it. Can you imagine you? That's the problem. The problem is the same problem that I have with UFOs and everything else. You want to be true. A hundred percent. So it really

clouds my judgment. And then I have to get my, you know, analytical mind to say, shut up. Yeah. Let's look at this honestly. But I mean, I think, I mean, there's definitely something below the Giza Plateau. Like that's always been written about in ancient sources and these, these kind of scans and then people going to, you have stories of people going down into labyrinths that aren't, you know, accepted by Egyptology. And there's definitely massive mysteries surrounding Giza and the construction of the pyramids and what could potentially be below the pyramids. And this kind of new pyramid scan project has the potential, I think, to, you know, make big progress in understanding what is below Giza. But I don't know, until there's better data out there, I'm not going to, you know,

jump to any conclusions and declare that this is like evidence of you know a lost advanced technology civilization or no you can't but i am so excited about just the possibility that they're right because if they are right that throw that's the greatest monkey wrench into history that's ever existed because explain away that with ancient people with stone tools and or copper like explain that away they probably try me because it already doesn't make sense their their explanation for the construction of the pyramids being wooden sledges and stone chisels or whatever they say it already doesn't make sense it's already so ridiculous that i wouldn't even be surprised if they tried to explain away these well that it'll discredit them because the problem is if it does indicate that

the pyramid is something other than a tomb you know there's not i don't even see any evidence that the great pyramid at giza i mean what's the evidence that that was a tomb i mean i don't think they've ever found a body in there no it's just a chamber which they've called the King's Chamber. Right. I mean, I'm not an expert in ancient Egypt by any respect, but it's always baffled me that they're so determined that the pyramids are tombs, just because some later pyramids have had, you know, mummies and pharaohs and sarcophagi found inside them, but...

That doesn't mean anything, and that doesn't mean that they built it. That also could mean that the pharaoh decided that it was his and wanted to be buried inside of it, and it had existed for thousands of years before they ever even got there. And you can, you find bodies in, like, you know, buildings today. And that doesn't mean the purpose of that building was to be a tomb. Right. It's just somebody's buried there. So someone, yeah, as you say, it's a weird assumption.

It's a very weird assumption. And did you ever read any Christopher, Christopher Dunn? Christopher Dunn's work. I know a bit. I haven't read his book, but I know a bit about it. It's interesting. I mean, he's like a serious guy, isn't he? He's an engineer.

Exactly. And he has quite serious theories that. He thinks it's a power plant. Yeah, which would be crazy, wouldn't it? Especially if you add into that, the Graham Hancock's ideas and some of these other people's ideas that perhaps some of these structures are far older. Well, the kind of Orion correlation in the sphinx. Also the fact that the deeper you go into the sand, the more sophisticated the building techniques are.

Yeah. That gets weird. Like larger stones. Like, what happened? The whole of ancient Egypt and the Sahara Desert in general just doesn't make sense to me because when you look at the Sahara Desert and the fact that it was green. The whole of ancient Egypt and the Sahara Desert in general just doesn't make sense to me because when you look at the Sahara Desert and the fact that it was green for 9,000 years and then it stopped being green at precisely the time that we're told ancient Egypt emerged, that doesn't make sense. That defies how civilization works. Why would a civilization only emerge after the climate got worse? That doesn't make sense at all. And so little research done in sub-Saharan Africa where they've actually gone in. into the ground and done like large scale research of these immense areas. Nothing, nothing.

The Sahara Desert is vast and obviously covered in sand and extremely hot, extremely difficult to survey, politically unstable, and there's basically been no archaeological work done across the whole. And Sahara Desert is massive. It's like the whole of North Africa right down to, I mean, it's massive. You could fit the United States in there. You could fit anything in there, like a whole preceding civilization for 9,000 years leading up to ancient Egypt. Like, it's the perfect place. It's right by Mesopotamia. It's right by Egypt. And yet we have

this blank spot for the 9,000 years before the development of civilization, which is kind of also the gap between, I mean, it's a little bit less than this, but the gap between Quebec Leitepe and the birth of civilization. We have this huge area, which would have been perfect for civilization, full of rivers, lakes, grasslands, perfect climate. And it's just missing. Also, abundant resources where they could establish a stable civil. civilization because they had so much food and they weren't being attacked so they could kind of set up shop and figure some things out. Yeah. Over a long period of time. Yeah. So my theory is that things were happening in the Sahara Desert when it was green in the Green Sahara for those 9,000

years. And then because it was really quick, that's what I don't think people realize is that when the Sahara Desert turned from, you know, green lush paradise, whatever you want to call it, to a desert, it was like a few centuries. It's called rapid desertification. And it it flipped, not overnight, obviously, but in a few centuries compared to 9,000 years, it's a rapid change. And for any kind of culture that was living there, you wouldn't have noticed it straight away, but in 50 years, you'd be like, fuck, it's getting a bit hot here, you know what I mean? Like, shit's going on.

And then I think maybe people migrated to the last stretch of green that was still available to them, which was the Nile River. And then the kind of survivors or the migratory populations developed around the Nile River and using the kind of experience and knowledge that they had, from their lives and the kind of history of their cultures in the Green Sahara period, that is what led to ancient Egypt. I mean, that's just a theory. Well, it's also just an assumption that ancient Egypt didn't exist alongside that or even previous to that,

which is also possible, especially when you consider what Robert Chalk thinks about the erosion, the water erosion, the temple of the sphinx. Yeah, the kind of explanation away of that also never made sense to me that it's wind and sand because when you see pictures of the Sphinx, even from when they kind of found it in the Napoleonic times, it's buried in sand. And there's records from the Egyptians themselves who, you know, excavated it effectively

because it was covered in sand. So if it quickly gets covered in sand, how could it be eroded by wind and sand? If it doesn't take very long for it to, you know, kind of get filled up with sand. Then how does wind and sand erosion even count? I've never seen anyone kind of explain that away. Well, it's the walls that are the most fair.

fascinating to me because the deep fissures that clearly look like rainfall. It looks like something that water does over thousands of years. Yeah. You know, and when you... Those whales that were the valley of the whales. Yeah. It's just about, I don't know how many miles south, but it's south of Cairo. That's bonkers, too.

That's crazy. They find whales. Hundreds of whales in the desert. That's so great. Look at that image. That's so nuts. That is so nuts. Some of them had teeth and toes.

So crazy. So crazy. And then it makes you wonder, like, how did those bones survive? Like, why are they there? Like, how quickly did they get covered up by sediment that they could find them all these years later? Because that's the weird thing about fossils and bones in general is that most of them you're never going to find

because they get eaten, they deteriorate, they're gone. Like, it's very difficult to make a fossil. You know, when you think about our, you know, quote unquote fossil record, it's really weird because it's hard to make a fossil. So we're dealing with a very small amount of beings that get turned into a fossil. And that is what we're using as our understanding of, like, life. Yeah, yeah. It's weird. It's weird.

Because it's so limited. I'm not sure. When was the, do you know, when the Sahara was covered in war? I'm not even sure when that was. I mean, some people say that there's like a mass flood during the kind of younger driest period, which I think is... I think they're talking about millions of years ago for these bones. How old are these whale bones supposed to be?

But I think millions of years ago, it's assumed that it was completely underwater, right? So are we talking like Pangaea times? Like, what are we talking about by then? But even not so long ago, like, you know, kind of 12,000 years ago, whatever, they had these massive river systems, like the Taman Rasset River system. Here it is. 40 million years old.

Yeah. 40 million years old. I don't know about the whales. Oh my God. Primitive whales. Primitive whales documenting, how do you say that word? Cetation? How do you say that word?

Cotation transition? Is that I say it? Cetation transition to marine life. Serenians and reptiles as well as shark teeth from the Gennaham Formation. nation 40 to 41 million years ago. The strata in, I don't say that either, Wad El Hitton, belongs to middle Eocene epoch, and it contains extensive vertebrae fossils within a 200-kilometer area. Fossils are present in high numbers and often show excellent quality of preservation.

The most conspicuous fossils are skeletons and bones of whales and sea cows. What's a sea cow? Oh, wow. What's a manatee? the precursor to whales like where whales came from? No, what did they come from? It was an ancient animal

that was like a almost like a hooved wolf. What, sea animal? No, you mean, it was a land animal. That's why they breathe air. Of course that mammals, aren't they?

Yeah, that's weird. It's super weird. It's super weird. It was some animal that supposedly lived on land and it was real freaky looking almost kind of like dog-like.

Yeah. And that thing eventually said, I just like swimming. I'm going to go back to the sea. And then one day it said, I'm never going back to the land. It's filled with assholes. I'm just going to live out here in the ocean. All you have to contend with is sharks.

This article calls it the God of Death whale. Wow, that's what it looked like. That's what it looked like. But there's some images of it on land, some depictions. Yeah, that's what it looked like. That freaky thing was what whales came from. That thing walked around the ground. And then eventually said, eh.

If it's 40 million years ago, is that what those skeletons are, then maybe? Hmm. Interesting. Some of them maybe, right? Because they do know the thing. It was when whales walked in Egypt. Wow. I was watching, I think, I don't remember whose podcast it was.

I wish I could remember. But they were talking to some guy that found definitive evidence of dinosaurs in Egypt. So if you go back far enough, there were dinosaurs living in that part of the world as well. What's that one image you just saw right there with the mouth open? Yeah, that one. That's crazy looking. Prehistoric whale ancestor. Look at that thing.

Whoa. That's crazy. Here's the sea cows. What? This image says a prehistoric sea cow was killed by a prehistoric crock. Wow. I need to buy a tiger shark. I don't know.

Boy. Life is hard where there's no doors. That's the problem with the ocean. There's no door. There's nowhere to hide. So it's just constant chaos. It is just constant things eating things in this 3D space where they can go up and down and side to side.

That's just nature, isn't it? It is. I'm just killing everything else. Yes. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost?

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Product availability varies by region. See app for details. We made it. But we figured out doors. We did. We figured out walls and doors and that changed the game. But when did we do that, Joe? That's the question.

That is the question. A lot of people would claim to think and the kind of consensus always is that we didn't do that until 12,000 years ago. We didn't settle down and form permanent communities until the Neolithic Revolution. And I think that's one of the major paradigms, if you like, that we have regarding our past that simply doesn't make sense in light of new evidence. What is that evidence that they found of wood construction from far longer than they thought? Yeah, this is the Colombo structure. and this is something I talk about a lot in my videos because I think it's a crazy find

and I don't understand why it's not kicking up more of a fuss like if I'm the guy that has to kick up the fuss about it then I'll be that guy because basically the idea has always been that humans were nomadic hunter-gatherers that move with the seasons and lived in caves or just kind of walked around for all of our history

until the Neolithic Revolution the invention of agriculture 12,000 years ago and no early than that did we ever settle down and live in permanent settlements. But the Colombo structure was something they found a few years ago in modern-day Zambia. And what it is is these pieces of wood, and I'll get to the point about why this wood has survived in a minute, because obviously wood surviving this long is crazy. But there you go. Yeah, so the Colombo structure is these pieces of wood that have been joined together deliberately,

cut in notches and connected together, tapered and secured at right angles. And they think it was either a kind of raised walkway, like a kind of raised platform, or a house, a dwelling, a huts, some kind of structure. And why this is so paradigm shifting is because not only does this kind of scream that humans potentially lived in permanent settlement. Sorry, I haven't even said. This is 476,000 years old. So this predates Homo sapiens. Allegedly. Allegedly.

As in, what do you mean allegedly? Because we recently found out that. They lived 300,000 years. I guess, yeah, it could have been us. But what they attribute it to is Homo Hidal Begensis, who's our last common ancestor with Neanderthals. So they're kind of the human species that came before Homo sapiens. So I guess you're right.

It could have been Homo sapiens and we're just not sure how old we are. But it's kind of attributed to Homo Hidal Borgensis. And the only reason this structure survived at all is because pretty soon after its construction, it must have fallen into a bog. and then that bog kind of got solidified over by the sun and then it was preserved in waterlog sediment which protected it from decay for almost half a million years

until it was discovered by us recently. How recent? I think about five years ago maybe. Was it 2019 or something? I'm not 100% sure. But it's crazy. So, another monkey wrench. I would say it's a massive monkey wrench

because not only does it kind of really dispute this idea that we didn't settle down until you know 12,000 years ago with the Neolithic Revolution because I mean it's a it's a structure I mean and it's just because it's so unlikely it's so unbelievable that this would have survived but that kind of suggests that it's it's not the only one right there could have been loads of these like structures everywhere and as you said man Manhattan yeah wouldn't live wouldn't exist in 100,000 years so this is 476 000 years yeah it's ridiculous and it's just wood which is less durable than all the other things that we were talking about.

Yeah. And obviously, people may be saying, well, look, clearly things survived. But this is an extreme edge case scenario where it's like so unbelievably unlikely that this wooden structure would kind of sink into a bog. And then that bog be, you know, solidified over and then it would stay in that preserved. Like it's a... And then that they would find it. And then they would find it exactly because, you know, what are the chances.

You have 476,000 years into the sediment. Yeah, exactly. Because we don't dig that far and look for anything sophisticated because we think, you know, nothing happened back there. and then you find this and it really suggests that humans were living in much more complex societies and the fact that they had the cognitive capacity

to plan, structurally engineer and build a structure completely flies in the face of what we've always thought about ancient humans because we've always had this idea that there's been this very popular idea in kind of mainstream historical thought that humans only got smart

around 50 to 60,000 years ago. And that's just homo sapiens. We've always thought that other human species never got smart, never achieved what we call behavioral modernity. And this has always been the kind of idea that we went through this cognitive revolution around 50 to 60,000 years ago.

And the most obvious proponent of how entrenched this is in kind of academic thought is, have you ever read the book Sapiens? Yes. Yeah, by Yuval Noah Harari. It's an extremely popular book. It sold something like 60 million copies worldwide. by far the most popular book about prehistory

and the story of homo sapiens ever written and sapiens didn't kind of do anything new. It didn't, I think Harari himself would admit this. It didn't, it didn't, it kind of just collected the consensus of academia and presented it in a nice, digestible way to the kind of layman audience. But he took this idea that's always been present

in academia regarding human intelligence, which is that, While we've been around for quite a long time, we didn't achieve behavioral modernity until 50 to 60,000 years ago. And that's when we started apparently displaying complex cognitive traits like abstract thinking and planning and bearing our dead.

Art. Yeah, exactly. And complex language and things like that. And but this just completely flies in the face of that. Because if we had the capability to plan, construct and engineer a structure 476,000 years ago, that means, you know, mainstream anthropology was off by over 400,000 years regarding the advent of intelligence

and the advent of permanent living. And that's, I mean, that's quite the error. 400,000 years. Exactly. So that kind of suggests they could be off by similar margins about other developmental claims because, I don't know, that's a big, big error. Well, it's also when you think about the history of the earth, there are times that we know that there was, like, there's great bottlenecks that occurred because of some sort of a massive

of natural catastrophe, like the Toba volcano. Yeah. Right, the Toba volcano, which was 70,000 years ago? Was that what it was? Yeah. Brought people down to a few thousand survivors on Earth. Yeah, and there's loads of these bottlenecks. Yeah.

And you look at our kind of genetic history. And I mean, does that suggest that something happened? Right. Well, when you're thinking about what evidence there is, and then you think about, well, there's no one left. except a few thousand people, 70,000 years ago. So it's possible that there's been this rise of some sort of a civilization and then massive catastrophe and a rebuilding, just like if we're talking about the younger

driest, which is in this time period we're talking about, you know, when you're dealing with 476,000 years ago, fairly recent, right? Very recent. Right. And think about the 6,000 years it took for civilization to reemerge from that. Now you think of Toba and you knock down the entire. entire population of the planet to, what did they think it was? See if you could find out what the number was.

I think it was very low. I think it was below 3,000 people on Earth. Yeah, on Earth. Yeah, just from one natural disaster. One massive super volcano, which is, by the way, just like Yellowstone. There's lots. It could all happen again. That motherfucker is bubbling too.

Here it is. Potentially, almost all of humanity leaving around 3,000 to 10,000. humans left on the planet. That's crazy. Wow. And super volcano isn't the only thing. There's so many others. What time period is this, Jeremy?

74,000 years ago. So that's quite recent. Yeah. In terms of our story. Well, in terms of your theory that I thought was one of the most interesting ones that you brought up, that in your videos, you were talking about how anatomical humans, just based on what we've agreed to, based on what we've found 300,000 years. Like, what are the possibilities?

that there have been civilizations that emerged and were destroyed, and then there's no evidence of them. Yeah, because, I mean, aside from the preservation problem, which we kind of already talked about, when you get up to these massive timescales, you know, very little is going to survive, especially when you think about what early humans were likely building with. Yes. Like, it's probably the things they could find in their environment. Like, wood, hide, plant remains. You'd have nothing left.

Nothing. Just look at what we know about the Amazon now because of LIDAR. and because of, you know, what is this the name, Percy Fawcett? Percy Fawcett, because these people that made these journeys down there looking for these complex civilizations that at one point in time, now we know did exist there. And just a hundred years later, they called those people liars because they went back to the same place and there was nothing left.

Yeah. That's always been, you know, thought of as myth or pseudoscience, that it's kind of the most popular idea of lost civilizations with civilizations of the Amazon, and it was always dismissed. Well, here's what's really crazy. Have you seen Detroit? Have you seen the evidence of Detroit, where trees are going through houses? And that's like 50 years. Less. Or if you look at Chernobyl, the kind of exclusion zone where no one lives, it's already like trees everywhere and like nature is already taking root after less than half a century. Yeah, bizarre. And then you 100,000 years. That's seriously what's going to be left? Very, very little. And then if you go 200,000 years, I mean, if anatomically modern humans, if we've discovered them at 300,000 years, what if somebody digs one up that's 2 million years old?

Then what do you do? Then you've got to go, oh, boy, oh boy. And then there's also this thought that Neanderthals were stupid. They're kind of abandoning that now, too. They're thinking they had language, they had tools, they had society. They definitely did. There's so much evidence. And this kind of puts into their cognitive range.

revolution argument, which is, you know, that we were the only smart species. Like our name that we gave ourselves, Homo sapiens, literally means smart man. It's always been the idea that we're the smartest humans, and that's why we won. And to be fair, we did win. We did win, whatever you want to call it. We might just be the most evil. Yeah, we might be the most evil, or it just might be the luckiest ones, you know? Well, we're the weakest, so we probably had to be evil.

That's true. We had to figure out weapons that would be able to defeat the Neanderthals, who had, by the way, larger brain capacities than they were just as intelligent as us. to be honest. That's nuts. Well, I mean, that's a claim that probably some people would dispute, but I think there's lots of evidence that they were very smart and... Well, necessity is the mother of invention, right?

And if you're physically weaker than these other things that are as intelligent as you and far stronger, like, you gotta, you gotta get devious, you gotta figure some stuff out. But like, did we even, I mean, either, I mean, maybe they got wiped out by something like disease or did they even get wiped out? Because if you even look at the DNA of non-African humans, it's something like 20% in some populations as Neanderthal. Yes. They're kind of still here.

Well, they just sort of interbred, yeah. Which is also weird because most species can't breed with other species. Yeah. Just, you know. But we're very, I mean, we're very closely related to Neanderthals. Yeah. It's weird. The whole history of humans is weird.

And for academics to deny this possibility to me seem social. I know. It's silly. I think we're on the brink of quite a massive shift in our perspective regarding prehistory. I think so too and I think it has to happen where I don't mean to say this to be cruel but they the old people have to die. It's that quote isn't it um science advances one funeral at a time. I hope it doesn't take that long though to be honest show I hope it I hope it's just in the next few years. Well the good things a lot of scientists don't take care of themselves which is also weird when you see super intelligent people that are obese and eat terrible food. health experts that are such.

Yes, air quote health experts, not real ones. But it is, to me, a great disservice. And one of the things that I find very promising is that a lot of young academics are embracing a lot of alternative ideas, whether quietly or whether they're doing it publicly. Yeah, well, I think the advent of the internet and shows like this or the medium of podcasting has really kind of. democratize the access to information and allowed people with theories that potentially wouldn't have been able to get out there in the pre-internet age where they were kind of you had to go through a kind of academic institution to get a theory heard or debated now anyone can say anything for better or worse and that can you know reach millions of people and then if it's an idea that's

popular then it can kind of be in the public eye and then it can be debated properly and I think that's only a good thing obviously there are negative aspects to that but I think that will increase, you know, ideas regarding prehistory, for example, I think it will increase the rate in which these things will get accepted, because once the evidence is out there, and once you start, you know, talking about the Colombo structure, for example, and how it completely flies in the face of both these paradigms regarding permanent living and human intelligence, it's out there now. People can look it up and people can see that this is completely kind of opposed to what we've always been taught regarding prehistory. And isn't it kind of arrogant to

assumed that they know who built it too. That's weird too, because they're basing on this assumption that human beings didn't exist back then, at least Homo sapiens didn't exist back then, which is also being challenged over and over and over again. Yeah, the fact they base on Hidal Bigencis is literally just because we found some Hidal Bigencis remains like 200 kilometers away. And they're like, okay, well, it was Hidal Bensis. I mean, it could have been, to be fair.

It could have been. But I mean, right now there's people that are living in Africa and 200 kilometers away from them are apes. So if one day they found structures, you know, in the future, said, oh, these are made by chimpanzees. Yeah. That's kind of crazy. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. I mean, that's the thing about history is it's all based on massive assumptions. It's not like a hard science. It's interpreting evidence. And that's fine. Like, that's how we do it. But sure. That's why I don't get. It's the only way to do it right now. It's the only way to do it. So that's why I don't get why people make these definitive conclusions and then don't allow

anybody to kind of speculate or hypothesize about anything else. It's gatekeeping. Yeah. It's gatekeeping. It's academic gatekeeping. It's also these people that have been teaching this one thing forever being threatened by the fact they were wrong. The last thing in academic wants to hear is like, you wrote this book, this stupid book, this book misled people for decades. You were so wrong. Like they will fight it with every ounce of their being because it's essentially their identity. Their identity is being the gatekeeper of their understanding of human history. Yeah, and they've built a whole career around it and they've, you know, as you say, it's their identity. They've been the knowledge, the keeper of knowledge on a particular subject. But it's gross because it's ours. It's the whole planet. It's all the human beings. It's like, do you have a few nerds who you wouldn't want to hang out with in real life?

And these are the guys that are telling us, we can't explore these things. And those are the people that are attacking Graham Hancock with every possible insult. Calling it the most dangerous show on television. But it's also, it's so revealing because it's so. obvious that if you watch the show, you're like, wait, this is the most dangerous show on TV? Ancient Apocalypse, yeah. It's ridiculous. How is that dangerous?

He's like just talking about these bizarre structures that exist that seem to defy our modern understanding of how things are built. Yeah. And when I, I mean, I don't agree with absolutely everything Graham Hancock says, but when I look at, you know, these ideas of, you know, human intelligence potentially stretching back 500,000 years as displayed by the Colombo structure or permanently. living, and I would argue that it could go back a lot further than that. So when you look at, when you kind of take into account that these abilities could have stretched back half a

million years, when I then look at someone like Graham's work, it seems so plausible. I don't see why it's seen as so outrageous that, because 12,000 years ago, which is kind of when he proposes, there could have been a, you know, a sophisticated civilization that was potentially wiped out by a cataclysm. When you look at that from the perspective of, oh, yeah, we've been intelligent for half a million years. it doesn't seem very it doesn't it seems very plausible to me not only that it's 450,000 years after the first structure now yeah but no one's even no one's talking about this that's what's weird is that no one's talking about that is that it's just me

as far as I can tell you it's like those academics as well that found it to be fair the the guy that found it the archaeologists that found it said that he never could have imagined that pre-homersaping and again it might not be pre-homisaping it could be homo sapien but he said It's completely paradigm shifting that they had the capacity to plan and build something like this. But again, there's no fuss about it. It's just a paper was written and it was put out there. And then that's it. Well, these things take time.

I guess so. Yeah. I mean, more of these conversations and more people have to understand that these things are being discovered and that we are kind of confused about so many things about human history. And we're being told that, no, there's people at the universities that have all. the answers and that it's literally not possible that they're telling the truth it's not possible and that's why i get so excited about the structures under the pyramid because it's a gigantic fuck you to all those people it would be it would be the most gigantic fuck you of all time if they found

out those that those scans are accurate and there's these pillars that are wrapped in coils that go down like hundreds of meters and then below them there's additional structures and the whole i think it's all connected as well yes which is Which is like, if Christopher Don is correct about it being some sort of a power plant and that reveals, like, how the thing worked and functioned, that's way more advanced than us. Like, what is that? In some ways, they already are. I mean, we can't explain how they did it, even based on the kind of conventional model of history. I know, and we lie.

I've talked to so many people. Like, when I had Zawi Hawass here, and he's explaining to me. National Project. It was the National Project. They're like, oh, that'll fix it. We should make our national project to breathe underwater and fly. through the air like we should make that our national project to go to the go to other planets and live there in case earth gets blown up what are you talking about man what are you talking about

yeah they just don't want it and it does kind of make me worry like i don't really delve into the kind of conspiracy side of things because i mean i just i try to stay kind of based and not me i go right in i mean i do i do it in my own time and stuff i mean in my own head and stuff but in terms of like what one do you dive into in your own head the most um i sometimes combine the UFO one with the ancient civilization one. I do too. And I think what happens if, you know, a civilization from a million years ago got so advanced that we can't see them. And then that's what the UFO thing is.

It's just someone from this earth that doesn't really need the space anymore. And they're just watching us. Yeah. Sometimes think about that. But obviously, I don't talk about that in my videos because I don't need to give anyone any more ammunition to send for me. Well, there's also the genetic engineering one. Oh, you mean like that? Yeah, like why humans are so different than everything else in the first place.

Like, that's weird. The doubling of the human brain size over a period of two million years is really weird. What does that refer to? Is that from Habilis to Erexas? What is that... I don't know.

Let's Google it. So I've heard people say that, and I've always thought, I guess that must be from Homo Habilis to Homo Erectus from just over a million years ago. It's just an immense leap that is, like,

Terence McKenna used to say, it would be bizarre if it was a liver of an otter that doubled over a period of that amount of time. But the fact that it's the very organ that allows us to contemplate and to understand human

existence in the first place, and that that organ doubled over a period of two million years? Like, what happened? Yeah. He's got the wackiest theory because he thinks it's psilocybin mushrooms. I think there could be something to that. I mean, because, you know, ancient cultures have always

used psychedelic substances and basically all the way up until Western society kind of took hold it's always been an integral part of human culture and human society and then us in our modern world have decided to outlaw that and I think that's a tragic mistake to be honest with you it is and I think history will reveal that yeah one day and I think that is one of the also also one of the good things about discussions that are happening on the internet that are kind of unchecked and untethered by academia so you can talk about these things. Bigger brains.

Smithsonian website says it's actually tripled over the time we've tracked it. Slow increase from $6 to $2 million, but a larger increase 800 to $200,000 years ago. Wow. And then the article goes out. That's when the aliens landed. Yeah. So I didn't even buy that, though,

because Hidal Begensis have the same cranial capacity as us, and they go back 900,000 years, so... Another thing I saw before I... But maybe that's a rexas they're talking about. Brains don't fossilize. They deteriorate leaving a cavity. Inside the brain case. That's part of how they know some of this info.

Sometimes sediments fill the cavity harmony and natural endocast scientists also make artificial endocast to study like the ones above. Fascinating. Fascinating. Yeah, we're a weird creature. Well, did you say it's 2017 that they do? discovered modern humans 300,000 years ago?

I think so, yeah. And where was that? It's in Morocco. And so that's Morocco, right? You said that. So imagine if they found something similar in China. Well, that would fuck everything up because of Africa thing and that would really, that would really fuck everything up.

But, um, I mean, it could happen. Well, it wouldn't really even fuck it up. It would just push it back. I guess so, yeah. But we, I mean, we're not even as supposed to have left Africa until this time of the cognitive revolution. And that's always been the one of the points like, oh, look, we got smart. we left Africa 60,000 years ago.

But that's never made sense to me either, because Homo erectus managed to migrate out of Africa and colonize loads of Asia and parts of Europe over a million years ago. And if they're supposedly, you know, inferior to us, then how can they make this massive leap? And Hidal-Begensis did it 600,000 years ago. And if they're supposedly inferior to us,

how come they did this? And so, I mean, I don't know. I try not to delve into the out-of-Africa thing because it gets a little bit controversial sometimes. It does. Well, it gets controversial. when you bring in aliens too because aliens become racist. It becomes racist

because now you're not accrediting the Africans to building the pyramids. That's never made sense to me that because clearly wasn't white people that built the pyramids. Well, I watched this very bizarre discussion between some guy that was trying to claim that it wasn't Africans that built the pyramid, that it was white people

that built the pyramids. So there are people that have this sort of racist idea of the construction of the pyramids, but you can't attach that to everyone who's speculating. about the construction because it's too the things are too weird it's too weird and let's assume that it was Africans that built the pyramids but if we are assuming that like how were they so much smarter than everyone alive today how were they so much smarter let's say it's 4,500 years

ago how were they so much smarter what was going on like what happened did they get visited by aliens did they discover something that allowed their understanding of physics to be just so much greater than everybody else who's ever lived like what did they discover like what were they encountering what were they consuming what were they doing what was what were they teaching each other where you know we lost so much in the burning of the library of alexandria right yeah yeah that's that's it's quite sad really isn't it to be honest like there would have been a lot in i'm not sure 100% what happened with that i'm not sure if it was one burning or just several burn yeah but clearly a lot was lost but then then the question is like what

what did they even know? Like, what if it's older than that? Like, what if all that stuff, what if, you know, this is one of the things that Zawi Hawass was very reluctant to, he's like, what is this? I was talking about the Kings List that goes back 30,000 years. Yeah, yeah. What if that's accurate? Yeah, it's the Sumerian one does too. Yeah. It gets real squirrely when you only want to accept some parts of history. And that ties into the Green Sahara thing that I was talking about. Yeah. I mean, they have the King List that go back this far and yeah we say that some of them are myth and to be fair they have kings that reign for like a thousand years which it's a bit weird is a bit weird probably not I mean

unless you're talking some kind of alien thing then that probably wasn't human but that might just be because it would have been a long time ago for them too when they were writing these king lists sure but it doesn't mean that their civilization only started with the first dynasty what we've decided is the line between myth and fact because that's a modern interpretation after the fact they never made such distinction yeah and this idea that they lived a thousand years Well, have you ever read the North Korea depictions of Kim Jong-un's first day playing golf? Yeah, it's propaganda, exactly. Yeah, I mean, he made like nine holes in one.

He was the greatest golfer of all time. You know what I'm saying? So it's like you're writing about kings. He lived a thousand years. Fire came from his dick. You know, like, what are we talking about? We don't know. We don't know what they were writing.

We don't know who wrote it. We don't know how fantastical it was. How much hyperbole was involved. But we do know that we accept the kids. King's list when it gets to around 2,500 BC. We start accepting it. Yeah. But you don't accept this possibility that it might actually go far, far, far earlier than that.

And the whole, the pyramids thing kind of plays into the fact that stone is one of the only thing that survives. And pyramids are these massive stone constructions. Like, ironically, they would be one of the only things from our, not that they really count as our civilization, but from the modern world, the pyramids would be one of the only things that could survive in 100,000. So it makes you think, like, how long have they been there? And I think the Egyptians definitely undertook some kind of construction project around

the time of 2,500 BC. Oh, for sure. Because there's records of them saying they did stuff, but that doesn't mean, because they have all these records, but there's no records of how they built it. Well, they also, the buildings that they made that were after 2,500 B.C. are dog shit. So much worse. They're terrible. They just immediately forgot how to do it again straight away.

They were trying to copy, and they just couldn't do it. They didn't have the math. They didn't have the engineering. The stones are smaller. And no one's claim, they didn't claim credit for the pyramids, which is weird. Yeah. Why would you not claim it? It's all weird.

It's all weird. It's the weirdest, right? So it's the one thing that if you're a logical person and you think you know the timeline of history, you think you understand human civilization, you think you understand like how intelligence, evolved and how technology and innovation evolved. And you see that, you're like, oh, I don't know shit. I don't know shit. Like, how's that statue so big and perfectly symmetrical?

They're crazy. How are these just these vases that they don't understand? Oh, is that a replica of... This is a 3D. And this is a 3D model of an actual vase from Egypt. Yeah. They're doing some good work on this, aren't me? People like on China X.

Did Christopher Don't give this to us? I think he did. It's probably him, yeah. But, you know, Ben from Uncharted at X, he's done a lot of work on these things. Like, those, just those vases are very bizarre, very bizarre. And they appear right at the start of the Egyptian dynasties. Yeah. And they forgot to do that as well.

We have no idea how they made them. We don't know what tools they used. Anybody that says that they do, you're lying. You really don't know. You can't know. These things are perfectly symmetrical. They weren't turned on a lathe because they have handles. the way they measure them

when you look at like the deviation from round and like how it's it's like a thousandth of a human hair. Yeah. It's crazy and it's made from incredibly hard granite. It's the hardest stone to do that with. So what are we talking about? Like who are these people? Yeah.

This is kind of crazy. And then you have the statues that are perfectly symmetrical. Perfectly symmetrical. The faces are just incredible. And massive. Yeah. And that is huge. We're unbelievably huge.

So they moved them there, and then they carved them perfectly symmetrically. It looks like they're 3D printed. It's so strange. It just screams at a lost technology. At least. It screams that these people had some sort of information and some sort of education that is like on a different path of our... We went the way of the internal combustion engine and transistors and electronics. and they, it seems like they went a totally different way, but maybe even further.

Yeah. But we're scrambled in like our pathway to advancement is the only one that the human mind and all its infinite creativity can conceive of. And this is another point regarding like, you know, culture that could have flourished back in 100,000 years ago or whatever. We're always looking for ourselves in the past. Yes. But there's so many different ways that we could have gone because why does it?

did it have to be mass farming, mass population growth, and then, as you say, kind of industrial progress. It could have been so many different forms of human development and human lives and how... Well, it could have been if they had enough animals, they mostly ate animals. Yeah, or fish or something. Yeah, mostly ate animals and fish, which is probably healthier for you anyway. You know, really what grain is is survival food. Yeah, and we all got like shorter and less healthy when that happened. Yeah, because we didn't get the right amount of protein and our jaws like shrunk because people are eating gruel like if you look at part of the world where people are eating a lot of like porridge and shit their jaws get really small yeah that's not

good for us no it's fucking terrible for we're devolving because of our diets which is really strange but if you think about this time and especially that part of the world where there was so much abundant natural resources that animal agriculture seems super simple you just corral a bunch animals you build a fence and then you eat them yeah and you don't really have to grow rice so many different ways that culture could have flourished yeah and yeah we're always looking for and we just don't know where to look as well on the record like one point people always make in like my comments and stuff to try and debunk me is like oh we would see pollution we would see kind of lead signals in the atmosphere or whatever if there was like a a big civilization

100,000 years ago but that's only the case if it was someone on the scale of us now because or if they were doing it the way we're doing it that's the thing where we're talking about a completely different pathway clearly there's some technology that they had that we don't understand when you talk about the drill holes that they find or the way they had carved out these enormous massive chunks of stone and we're apparently going to move them we don't understand the unfinished obelisk yeah yeah it's crazy the unfinished obelix that That's bananas. So many of these things that they cut out of the ground and absolutely moved are bananas.

So it's like what kind of technology? Why are we assuming that it's going to be some internal combustion engine that sprays out terrible pollution? What if they had figured something out? I would say it's entirely possible. It's entirely possible because we're going to eventually. If you give us another thousand years, you will not be able to recognize any of this nonsense that we use for technology. today, especially when AI gets involved.

Like, did you see that thing where a quantum computer supposedly went one second back in time? I did. I was reading that. Is that bullshit? No, it's, they discovered it six years ago, though. It's not new. What? Six years ago, well, still, it's still.

2019, but still. It went back in time. Yeah, way, one second in some way in quantum fields. What does that even mean? Exactly. I don't know. Exactly. that's Matt but that's us now imagine that technology that was science fiction 20 years ago right we'll go back to like the movie alien and look at their stupid computers that they had that this is what they thought people were going to have when they were starfaring people yeah

now think of this quantum computer experiment where it goes back in time one second and then go forward a thousand years which is nothing yeah we're talking about 4,500 years ago we might be off by 1,000. So go to 5,500 years ago, 6,000. If you're listening to John Anthony West, he thinks it's 34,000 years. That's what he thinks. And that sounds so crazy, but then you look at the kind of length of time we've been around and it's still quite recent. Yeah, it's still quite recent. And that lines up with the Sphinx, doesn't it? With the kind of a, that's the processional cycle. How much evidence of a quantum computer from 34,000 years ago would be left? Right. So we did get pelted by comets, which we know happened.

That's a fact. I saw an estimate. I think it was from NASA, but I'm not 100% sure. But it was from a kind of scientific journal that Earth is hit by what they define as a cataclysmic impact every 100,000 years. So that's an impact that's capable of wiping out a third of today's population every 100,000 years. And 100,000 years sounds like a long time. But again, we've been around for 300,000 years. So theoretically, we've been hit by a cataclysmic impact three times already during our story. And that both has the potential to completely wipe out anyone that was doing anything sophisticated, but also to wipe the record clean.

Yeah. And that's not the only thing you've got, you know, supervolcanoes, as we talked about, you've got pole shifts, you've got solar flares, you've got glaciers just scraping across the landscape and just completely erasing the record. You've got sea level rise. Sea level rise is a massive one because, I mean, where have we always lived? by the coasts. And if you look at the kind of fluctuation of sea level rise over the last 100,000 years, 200,000 years, 300,000 years, sea level is going in and out by hundreds of kilometers at a time

and nothing is going to be left. Right. Wild stuff. I know. It's crazy. It is wild stuff. But again, if someone is a historian and they got into this, someone's an archaeologist and they got into this because they have this fascination for it, For them to become professors and then start teaching and writing books about this stuff and not still be fascinated by the new stuff is to me so weird.

It's like you missed the whole reason why you got into this in the first place. You got into this in the first place is because you're trying to figure out what happened. How did we get to this point? And if there's evidence that shows that we don't have the full picture, And you're ignoring that or dismissing that? But the thing is when you go through these kind of systems and I've sort of got experience of this, obviously I was never a professional academic or anything like that. But, you know, I did history for four years. I was kind of inside and I got to the point where it was almost, you know, it was do this as a career, become a professional academic or not.

It's very hard to kind of even think this way because everyone around you is thinking within these boxes that we've created for ourselves. And so it's very hard to kind of open your mind and you kind of have to do it in private as well because no one else is talking in those terms around you and you're surrounded by people that think in quite limited terms and I don't say that to kind of be offensive or, you know, doubt anyone's intelligence. Exactly, it's the culture. And it means that no one is, it's very hard to think outside the box

when you're kind of in that culture. And I think that's kind of what creates these, you know, rigid systems of thought. It's also kind of fear-based because, Because it's not just discouraged, they'll attack you. I mean, they attack each other even when they are within the box. Just to think about the Clovis first issue. Yeah, I mean, that's the best example. It's the best example because that guy was destroyed.

His career was destroyed. Yeah, destroyed. And Jack St. Mars and a few others. And they were right. They were destroyed for theorizing that human beings had lived in North America and that arrived in North America far before 13,000 years ago. And that was the established timeline of. the Clovis people.

And then when they found these footprints in New Mexico that are 22,000 years old. Yeah. And they hated that as well. They hated that. Of course they hated it. But they hated it just because they were wrong. It's all it is, man. It's human ego is so gross.

And this brings me back to psychedelics. Because what do psychedelics do that's most important? Well, the dissolving of the ego. It's one of the most important aspects of it. It makes you realize the folly of your ways. you know, and all of these people that are supposed to be the academics, they're supposed to be the enlightened ones. They're not enlightened.

They're just, they have information and they hold that information like it's their identity. And they're right about a lot of things because they have been studying it and they do deserve credit for that. What they've done is amazing. And the understanding that these academics, these archaeologists and historians can give us of our world and our history is really cool. It's really awesome. But there's a whole lot more out there.

And for them to pretend and dismiss people like, they should embrace people like Graham Hancock. And then they should correct him when he's saying something that's wrong. Yeah. But instead of lying and then calling him a racist and saying all these terrible things about him, well, that just shows me that you don't really have an argument. And you're trying to protect your identity. Your identity is the gatekeeper of this information that is not yours to gatekeep. It's for the whole human race to understand what the hell happened.

Yeah. And I wish that, you know, we've seen a surge in interest in ancient history and prehistory. And, you know, the story of our species through people like Graham Hancock, who have kind of created a massive interest in this subjects. But instead of embracing that, they see it as a threat. And I think that's really sad, to be honest. And yeah, I think it kind of hurts the discipline in general because if you kind of like embrace that and like brought him into the table and spoke to him and kind of agreed, you know, agreed to have the discussion, then it would create a much kind of more healthy debate around these things. And when you talk about the Clovis kind of narrative, because we think that we know what happened and thus we know what didn't happen, it means that people aren't even looking for stuff that now we know what's. there. So, like, they don't, they didn't dig deeper than the Clovis layer until very recently

because they knew that humans weren't around until Clovis, but obviously that was wrong. So they could have missed so much stuff and they probably did. I mean, have you seen that? There's like a, to be fair, I think Graham mentioned it on the show, the Surruti Mastodon site, which is like 130,000 years ago in America. I mean, if that's human, which kind of looks like it is. That's debatable, though, right? Isn't that debatable?

Yeah. Because the way the bones are broken, it could have been from some sort of an accident or an avalanche or something, right? Yeah, it is debatable. But it's also, it could be human. Right. It could easily be human, because it kind of looks like human markings on bones. I mean, so. It looks like scraping, like they're scraping the marrow out of the bones.

Yeah, exactly. Or some kind of primitive. But why couldn't it have been human? I mean, it didn't necessarily have to be homo sapien. But why couldn't another human species have got to the Americas? Well, it seems like they certainly could have, if they were here 22. thousand years ago. Like what was that timeline? Why'd they figure it out then? Yeah. And how'd they do it, right? That's the question. How'd they do it? And we know that people were seafaring from

what was the earliest seafarers? You could argue that Homo erecta seafed 800,000 years ago, which is just mental. Could you really? Well, they reach places that were isolated. And some people say, you know, they kind of floated there accidentally. Which that is possible, but it seems a bit weird that you'd then like survive and colonize a place. See, that's where it gets so squirrel. If Homo erectus made a boat, that's bananas. I mean, Neanderthals were definitely making boats, and this points to how intelligent they were. They were making sophisticated boats

and sailing across the Mediterranean and colonizing places like Crete well over 100,000 years ago. Well, we know that the North Sentinel people, they arrived by boat from Africa 60,000 years ago. Yeah. And so at least then people were seafaring. Oh, definitely.

And probably way earlier than that. So why would we assume they wouldn't get to the Americas? That seems crazy. I mean, bigger journey, to be fair, but then I guess if you go across the top. Which way you're doing it. Yeah, exactly. If you go across the top and kind of hop down along the coast, then not so hard. Well, when, also, there's a problem.

It's like if you go back 12,000 years ago, Canada's covered in ice. Yeah. There's nothing there. It's literally all ice. So where are they coming from? Well, they have to be coming from the south. I guess. I mean, there's the kind of theory regarding the Polynesian kind of island chain, you know, hopping across to East Island and then making

one last hop across to South America or that's a crazy hop going the other way it is a crazy hop but people have always done crazy just the fact that they did it in the 1400s is bananas pretty crazy and they did that with tech that was you know no tech they just did it with the stars yeah

and wood but then you get to what how do you say that ancient Greek symbol that ancient Greek mechanism that they found the Anticathera mechanism I never could say that Anticathira I'll try I'll try to remember it you got it you get it but I always forget it

but that thing is bananas like that when they first found it it just looked like a hunk of shit like what is this and then when they got a better understanding I think it was like a long time after they discovered it that they go oh wait a minute these are gears like what the computer basically

2000 year old computer yeah at least and also that's not the first one like no one just someone didn't just develop that and was like here you go just fucking made a computer like it was clearly like a you know a long history of very very technical stuff in right in ancient Greece and it could well have been the ancient Greeks but also it could have been like well where did you kind of where's the what's the history of this technology and right more technical than like this modern automatic watch yeah yeah you know

modern automatic watch if you look at the inside of them it's crazy there's springs and gears and it's all within like this uh seco is like within I think it's a couple seconds a day yeah like that's crazy and it's all these little and it moves it has no power source other than the movement of your hand yeah and there's a 72 hour power reserve so for 72 hours we let it sit there just from the power of your hand from wearing it really yeah yeah yeah that's a cool watch nuts isn't that nuts but that's normal that's a normal thing for a modern watch with these little tiny gears this thing's way crazier than that and it's 2,000 years old at least what do they think it was for I think they thought it kind of like track the lunar cycles

and the kind of elliptical movements of... Have you seen the 3D AI representation of what it looked like when it was fully done? See if you can find that because it's... That's the most eye-opening of it. Because you're bringing this back to the time of Christ and someone made a computer during the time of Christ. Like, what are we missing? Like, Graham's quote is the best. I love this quote.

We are a species with amnesia. 100%. 100% yeah and there's other quote that I really love things just keep getting older and things do keep getting older they keep getting older yeah and this is something that people resist for some strange reason and I don't understand it I think it's just because it's attached to these folks like Graham yeah that's the one look at it that's nuts that's what it used to look like that this is a modern reproduction of oh right but that that is what it used to look like right that's off of that that yeah pieces So, show me the modern reproduction of what it looked like.

Just imagine. Okay, someone 2,000 fucking years ago figured that out, and they have these little representations of the stars and the planets of the sun, and then all the planets surround it. Like, first of all, how do they know all that? How are they seeing these planets? Like, did they have a telescope? Like, what are they?

How do they know how many planets are in our solar system? what did you base this on? And no equivalent technology ever re-emerged until like, you know, like the 16th century with like Swiss clockmakers or something. So it just makes you wonder, like, how old is that and what's that from? And what were the, you know, was there other stuff like this that we never find? When I Googled first E. Ferse Fares. Yeah, I think that's the... Whoa.

There's no... I don't see the evidence that they have for 700,000 years ago. I think that's... the Homo erectus thing. I googled it and crossing the AG&C it says they might have been doing which there was some like islands that were protecting it from crazy weather potentially made it easier

but that is I don't know what evidence is a crazy thing to read some evidence suggests that man may have crossed a sea as early as 700,000 years ago yeah aren't you happy you were born today? Yeah imagine you're trying to gut it out tough it out living back then? Take the boys and go and cross across

some fucking sea in a wooden raft when you want to have eaten your friend because there's no food left yeah it's kind of amazing that we got as far as we did but it's really amazing when they find things like that is the antichathira mechanism

I said it right he did nail them I'll try to remember but just the fact that we found one of those and it makes you wonder like what would they have in Egypt

you know what did they have 2,000 years before that what did we miss digging into the stone stuff before you talk about frequencies There's a, I saw a video recently that doesn't explain all the Egypt stuff, but there were frequencies coming out of these rocks that I don't think everybody is currently, like, studying. People have studied it. That's very basic, but like, there's the King's Chamber and the reverberations that happen. I was reading from Archimedes, I think.

this quote here when the priests sing the hymns of the gods they sing the seven vowels and do succession the sound of these vowels has such euphony i think that's that word that men listen to it instead of the flute and the lyre the lear from two thousand or two hundred bc we've there's like so many ancient sites that all built with kind of acoustic yeah like resonance in mind yes that's what i was getting into this i was trying to find the proof of it someone made a video i saw recently where the somatic stuff shows up all over the place in some ancient sites, definitely obviously in churches and cathedrals. But this is what happens when you, like, put sand on a plate and hum on it or put, you know, a certain frequency. Vibrations, yeah. And how you stumble across this, and it just so happens to be the same thing we're like,

we're discovering now. What is that image of? What is that golden? This? Yeah, what's that? It's a cathedral. I looked at it. Is that in Canada?

No, the article is from... Oh. Spain. It's in Spain. Whoa. That is wild. Okay. I was looking into the oldest doors, people found.

The oldest doors are only like 5,000 BC. It was found in Switzerland somewhere. Huh. There's the oldest act of doors in the UK. It's from 900 to AD, I think. What are those images of sacred geometry? from in that right there Leonardo da Vinci's original drawing of the flower of life how what divinci what drugs are you taking son how is he seeing that yeah well

that that's ancient imagery right that's sacred geometry those depictions have been around forever he was a crazy dude da Vinci in a good way yeah smart guy well bizarrely smart it's weird when you have these outliers the these outliers that come out of nowhere and like he he he had like a working model of a flying machine yeah yeah and he had like three jobs yeah and he's an amazing artist yeah it's kind of you know these these outliers that just how many of them we never heard of how many of them were from 30 000 years ago how many just we have such a limited understanding of our history and And I always think, like, if something happened to us right now, what would really be left?

The real problem is everything is either on paper, and there's not a lot of it on paper anymore, it's on hard drives. And those things would get cooked. If there was just a massive solar flare, something huge that took out our power grid and destroyed all of our cell phone towers and all our satellites, no more electricity. And even if it didn't get cooked. What would you do with it in 10,000 years? If you found that, you wouldn't know what that was. You wouldn't know what that was. You would have to devise a new version of windows to read it.

You know, it would take so long. And it would probably have been corroded and wasted away. It wouldn't be recognized before that. Especially if something happened, it was underwater. Especially if, you know, the entire world is on fire because we could hit with a comet. Yeah. There wouldn't be much left. And this is like a really shitty way to store information.

It does feel like a bit of a risk, doesn't it? It's a giant risk. Everything we've ever learned and, you know, discovered and thought about is... Well, you know what happens when your phone dies and you don't have a backup phone. You're like, oh, no, I don't know anyone's number. And we do that with our entire civilization's knowledge. Right. And so then you would have just stories and myths of what things used to be like,

there was an all-female flight crew at Delta. You're like, what? what are you talking about what does that even mean you know all day they had satellites what are you talking about like what is the thing is like i wonder how many the satellites would still be in orbit or whether their orbit would deteriorate and they would come crashing down to earth i think they would decay like relatively quickly i think i mean i'm not sure but lots of them would i think when we're talking big time scales yeah let's think let's google that how many satellites that are in orbit today see if uh put this into ai how many satellites that are

in orbit around the Earth today will be there in a hundred thousand years. Does a perplexity have an answer for that? I think it's unlikely that anyone else was doing like space travel and stuff. Unlikely. Yeah. Certainly unlikely. I don't think there's anything on the moon, for example. I think we probably see that.

Yeah, that's the weird one, right? There's bases in the dark side of the moon. They're watching us, are you sure? I don't think so. You know, well, then there's the weirdest of the moon itself, that it's the absolute perfect size and the perfect distance to completely block out the sun. That is weird, isn't it?

Real, real weird. It's real weird, because it's not kind of right. It's perfect. Precise, yeah. It's very precise. So you would need the precise size and the precise distance. that is weird and there's also the fact that it stabilizes our atmosphere

it stabilizes our environment yeah I guess the argument for that is we wouldn't be here if it wasn't right if it wasn't the exact right this is the best answer it's uh you might have to read the whole thing but there's thousands of satellites burning up each year in the atmosphere is what I got to the end of oh so thousands of them would crash down I mean they they

so how long do they last that's the first that's why I was trying to track that down the first one only lasted three months So Sputnik won, the Soviet Union, in 1957, three months later it fell out of orbit. It seems like they worked up to about a 25-year rule where they don't expect it to last that long. Wow. It's going to crash down. So in 25 years, there's nothing left.

But I was trying to Google how long until the last one, if they stopped putting them up, how long until the last one crashes down? It seems like 25 years. That's why then I couldn't get a good answer that way. Did you put it into AI? I didn't because I don't want to. I don't like asking questions. You don't know the answer to the AI. I like asking questions I know the answer to.

Well, I just like to see how it thinks. I like to see if it's going to just bullshit you and lie to you or if it's going to... That's why I want to know when it's bullshit in me. Yeah. I don't like no when it doesn't. Yeah. Because you just have to trust it. Well, it's also basing all its information on websites.

Yeah, and I don't know what year it was trained on. watching people talk about sports cards are like, it's not updated in the last three years, so you don't even, you can't use this data. It's not good data. Oh, really? Which one was that? I don't know which one they were talking about.

There's so many AI opportunities out there. It's funny watching people on Twitter use GROC and try to get GROC to say things it doesn't want to say. Yeah. And you realize, oh, there's an information blockade of what GROC is allowed to talk about. The thing is you could just make, you can kind of trick AI.

to say whatever you want it to say yeah i've seen people do that like trick it into saying like how would you make a bomb yeah and that's almost the bad thing about it is you can it kind of becomes your own little echo chamber after a while if you if you want it to if you can kind of convince it to well we've done a really terrible job of taking care of most people and when then you give these people access to the kind of power that AI provides them they're going to ask naughty questions yeah because they you know it's great fun though they're not living in harmony yeah yeah yeah Because we're a selfish being, we're a selfish creature. It's a crazy thing, though, the kind of advent of large language models and artificial intelligence and it's mad.

Well, it's also we're in the middle of it. It's happening right now, which is real weird. So, like, in our lifetimes, we're potentially witnessing the biggest change to civilization since the pyramids. Yeah. Even in my lifetime, like, I was born in 97. didn't really have, I had to dial up the internet. I remember when I was a kid, and then, you know, smartphones came along, and then obviously things like AI, and it's just, it is pretty ridiculous.

I was 27 years old before I ever got online. That was when I first got a computer and I got on AOL, you've got mail. It's like, I've got mail? This is crazy. Yeah. And, you know, and you could go to chat rooms and read about stuff and you could download information so I'd print stuff about UFOs and like this is the future I'm living in the future and we're very fortunate I think that we got to see what life was like with a primitive

use of the internet to what it's become now to a quantum computer can go back a second in time to you know what is coming next we don't know what's really weird is imagine if this has been done before we're assuming that it hasn't but imagine if the Egyptians Egyptians had figured out something similar. It kind of makes sense. I mean, it sounds preposterous that they did, but why? Why if we can do it? Why if we can do it?

Maybe it's just a thing if you leave humans undisturbed for a long enough amount of time with food, they start figuring stuff out. You can keep them from killing each other, and maybe that's the beautiful thing about the way Egyptian technology had advanced. they didn't split the atom. Maybe they figured out something else that they couldn't turn into a weapon. Yeah. They were definitely doing some pretty mad stuff.

And then if you look at those kind of granite boxes they made that it's a completely smooth surface. I mean, they clearly had some form of technology that we don't attribute to them. I think that's undisputed. I mean, it is disputed, but I don't see how you can logically kind of look at what they were doing

and not think they had some kind of technology that, you know, we don't traditionally attribute them to. But whether that means they were like some crazy advanced civilization or it was built by some other advanced civilization, you know, that's a bit more hypothetical. But they were clearly doing stuff that we can't appreciate today. So that logically suggests they had, you know, something that we don't understand, right? Right. And when you find Antigthera from 2000 years ago, it makes you just really think, like, what did they have? Well, ancient Greece was very inspired by ancient Egypt. So, I mean, it could have well come from there. Exactly. Yeah.

And we, you know, we're just guessing. We're just lost in guessing. That's the thing. It's all about interpretation, isn't it? All of history is about interpretation. It's not a hard science like, you know, physics. I mean, physics is kind of crazy too. It hurts my head, man.

That's too much for me. All that quantum physics stuff. But have you ever heard of the Silurian hypothesis? No. That's a... What is it? It's kind of linked to this, you know, ancient civilization stuff. It's the idea that there could have been an advanced civilization on our planet,

you know, a hundred million years ago, a non-human one, that, you know, was advanced and industrial. And we just wouldn't see any trace because of how long ago it was. And they could have been here. And, you know, we just wouldn't know because it's been so long. It's kind of like where I come from with my kind of human idea. Obviously, it's a further time span. But it's been, it was proposed by two physicists, is why I just thought of it.

just then is a guy called Adam Frank and I've had him Adam on before you've had him on Adam Frank there you go I mean didn't he might have talked about him on Jamie right? I don't know didn't we? Let me see you can see what's a problem

that happens all the time we're like yeah we've had him on I know we have episode at 1130 I knew we have I just wanted to check because I have been wrong before we talked about a guy I'm like who's that guy and then like I talked to him for three hours I thought you were I was like uh oh yeah it's happened before

but so this idea is that something else other than human beings it's just the idea that if it had we wouldn't know and because the earth's been around for so long and complex multicellular life appeared you know relatively early in our like four billion year history of the earth or whatever I'm not sure on the dates but we've been around the earth has rather has been around for so so so long and we know that intelligence can emerge because it emerged with us and happened relatively quickly when you look at the kind of massive timescale that the Earth's been around and how long

multicellular life has been around. So their idea is kind of like, well, what if, you know, a civilization in the kind of era of the dinosaurs had, you know, become very advanced and an industrial society? And they say we would see absolutely no evidence. Like when I'm talking about human civilization, we would see some potential evidence like, you know, rock, carved stone or whatever. But they would say you wouldn't even see the nuclear waste deposits because it's that long ago that. nothing would survive and then I think about that and I think well isn't it almost more likely that something did happen considering we know that intelligence can emerge relatively quickly multicellular life has been on the planet for so so so so so so long

limited understanding of the fossil record exactly yeah why couldn't why couldn't something have happened before and then then you start getting a bit you know stoner about it and you start thinking well maybe they're still here because that's what I like to do I like to go into dimensional yeah I think like well if you do have these quantum computers that can go back one second in time and you you move forward a thousand years from now and they're run by AI like what can they do like what do they cease to do these being ceased to exist in this dimension do they develop the ability to be transdimensional do they do they no longer exist in our space and time is that like the emergence of this new life form

and then they observe us is that what's going on well I feel like if you kind of survive you know a lot longer than we have and you kind of get to a different like kind of level of intelligence then why would you need the kind of physical body why would you need the physical realm and why couldn't you kind of diverge different dimensions if such a thing is possible like we certainly can imagine it taking place somewhere else on another planet with a similar atmosphere that supports life and given maybe they live in a solar system that doesn't have an asteroid belt yeah right because there's I'm sure they must exist where they're not getting pelted all the time. We're just in a shitty neighborhood. We're basically in a neighborhood that gets shot up all the time. In a shooting gallery, yeah. Yeah, it's a shooting gallery. And imagine them achieving where we are at, but then plus a million years. And you can go, oh, yeah, well, I guess all bets are off in terms of what's possible. You know, a hundred years ago, people were freaking out if they saw a car. Now we're sending video from a tiny little screen on your phone across the world

instantaneously it's all nuts and we don't even blink at that you get pissed off if it doesn't work you're like what fuck I don't talk to this guy in Australia instantly like why's my phone not working and you know people are addicted to staring at it it's like it's pulling you into its gravity it's all very very weird stuff

yeah we adjust very quickly to real quick yeah how technology develops and it's just getting faster and faster and faster It makes you think, where will we be in 100 years, in 500 years, if nothing happens? Yeah. Where will we be? I think we'll be somewhere really weird. But I'm hoping that as we do advance and wherever we're going to be, it'll help us understand where we came from.

Like, you know, like if AI and superintelligence starts examining the history of the human race, then things can get very interesting. interesting. And maybe it could give us places to look. Like we need physical, you know, human beings or drones on the ground excavating certain areas. This is like prime place to look. Yeah, I come, I some, I kind of flip between like quite a pessimistic outlook and quite an optimistic outlook on these things. Like sometimes I think like, it's just gone and we're never going to know when we can speculate for as much as we like, but it's gone. And then sometimes I think, no, like you never know. There's so many places that are just completely unexcavated, completely unexplored that we haven't looked at, like, you know, believe the Sahara

on the ocean floor by these, could I have some coffee, please? Yes, that'd be right. Thank you. Of course. And there are all these places that, you know, we haven't explored. And as you say, technology like AI. Thank you. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you. You know, I think, sometimes I think, yeah, maybe we are going to make like these massive discoveries that are going to completely shift our understanding of history. And as you say, the findings beneath geese, that could be a moment. And I'm always looking for that.

But then sometimes I flip again, I think, you know, maybe we'll never find anything. And I just don't know. Maybe I'm just speculating for no reason. And I should just stop. Have you seen Ben on Uncharted X? He has a very recent video of these, I don't even know how you describe it. There's these underground structures in Egypt that he says are bigger than that. the Giza Plateau that are underground.

I haven't seen that. I love his channel, but I haven't seen that. There's a historical record of these things where people had talked about them, like, you know, way back, even explorers had visited them and found them to be more spectacular than what is actually on the ground, that the underground thing was even crazier. And that begs the question, why underground? Why do we find all this underground construction all over the world? Hey

Oh, Jamie Was that, and that's his theme music I even recognize that Shout out to Unshot at X Yes, he's coming on soon to talk about this very thing He's awesome He's really awesome

And he's spent so much time down there So He did something Are you talking about He did a video That's it right there Unknown Ancient Site So the unknown age sites

Said to be greater than the pyramids Confirmed with satellite scans Okay yeah I haven't seen this Give us the coming up. Just play it. Just so many different techniques. The geoscan and Merlin Burroughs satellite technologies. I mean, they're vastly different techniques.

They seem to be aligned. They're telling you the same things. So they found something. Like, there's something down there. What is down there seems to be also quite a mystery. The central object is hard to classify. It appears metallic, not stone or wood. A freestanding 40-meter-long metallic tic-tick-shaped object.

approximately, what, 50, 60 meters below the ground in a huge big open corridor or an atrium? Come on. Like, this is a remarkable claim. It's a crazy video. And he goes deep into the history of people talking about these sites and even ancient explorers who wrote about visiting Egypt would talk about how it was even more spectacular underground. Here it is. This is, how do you say his name? Petri, yeah.

He's written a lot because he was like one of the first people. Oh, it's Flanders Petri. Yeah. So are those the names of the sites who's talking about? Hawara, Biammeru, and Arsone, Arsione. Yeah, Harara is definitely a site. Arsenao, Arsano. So it says, on that space could be erected the Great Hall of Karnak

and all successive temples adjoining it, and the great court and the pylons of it also the temple of moot and that of how do you say that consu i guess consu and uh aminhotep the third at karnak also the two great temples of luxor and still there would be room for the whole of ramesium what does that mean in short all the temples of the east of thebes and i'm sorry if i'm butchering these name spoke. And one of the largest of the West Bank might be placed together in the one area in the ruins of Hawara. Here we certainly have a site worthy of the renown which the labyrinth acquired. So this is an ancient explorer who's talking about he actually got into this

area. The problem now is it's all submerged. So it's been flooded. And it's It's very difficult to do any kind of archaeological work. I don't know. Yeah, because he was one of the first people in. Yeah, Western people. They're like crawling into these like holes and swimming in now. It's real weird. It's like you could die in there.

So someone's got to figure out how to get the fucking water out of there and what is that. So if this guy's accurate with what he's talking about, again, explain that. Explain how you've got something that's even. greater than what you're seeing above the surface underneath 50 meters down in the stone and why underground why so much harder exactly what like what were they doing were they hiding this is this like what happened when cataclysms cataclysms took place they said boulson we need to develop a way to survive these things let's get underground and there's so many all over the world as well there's yeah people are always more ancient people who are always building underground construction and

And we can't explain how they did it, who did it, or why they did it today. And again, no one in the mainstream really kind of looks into that. Yeah, that site in Turkey, wasn't it supposed to house like 2,000 people? Yeah. Is that the number, like 2,000 people? At least I think, I can't remember off the top of my head, but it's huge. Huge. I think it might be 20,000 people.

It's massive. That sounds better. And yeah. Sounds more exciting. But it is massive, and they don't know how they did, and they carved it out of stone. They don't know who built it. There's no evidence of the stone. being left anywhere. It's not like there's a big pile of it outside of it. It's a real weird.

Yeah, 20,000 there you go. 20,000 people together with their livestock and food stores. So 20,000 people, livestock and food stores, extending to a depth of approximately 85 meters underground. And no one knows who built that. That's just so crazy. Nuts. And their kind of argument is that they built it to kind of protect themselves from an invading army, but that's never made sense to me. mean because if you were attacking those people you just block the entrances yeah and then start fires yeah yeah that seems silly it seems like more likely what they were doing was escaping

whatever the fuck was on the surface and so who built that and why and how old is it because again it's you know it's stone that could survive for so long right and also did you build it after a cataclysm like how do you do it do you know it's coming and that's how you build it no you didn't know it's coming unless it happens regularly and they realize the only way to survive it is to get underground well i guess you could you know it could be the remnants of an earlier culture that was wiped out and right they had like a memory of maybe passed down three myths look at how nuts that is i was thinking too like no one not how like leaf cutter ends do it this couldn't have been the first one they made yeah yeah exactly exactly right exactly figure out how to make all those chambers

to breathe and stuff that's so bananas do that that's 85 meters into the ground so crazy. So crazy. Another great one is Longue Caves in China, which is just, there's just zero explanation of what that is or who built it. There's no record of its construction. Have you seen? Yes. You've seen Longue Caves, yeah. Yeah, pull that up because that's nuts too. Absolutely crazy. How old is that supposed to be? No one knows. They have no idea who built it. It's just like, what is this, you know? And they don't know who built it. There's no record of who built it. They didn't know what it was for. There's no deposits of stone. There's no tools found nearby. Do they have a theory of the timeline?

I don't think so. I mean, to be fair, it's in China, so it's kind of like, it's not, it's a... It's found in 1992. Whoa, a farmer. Four farmers. So there's 24 of them, like, looking like that. Wow. 24.

At least 2,000 years old. Go to a video of it so we could see. Because the caves, when people walk around it with a camera, it's bananas. And there's 24 distinct ones that look like that. And it's just like, who's building that? Can you still visit China without going to jail? What happens? I don't know.

Oh, this is Mike Collins. He's great, Wander and Wolf. Yes. He's the one who does all that stuff about that wall in Montana too. Yeah, the Sage Wool. Very weird. That man, Montana thing is very weird. I go back and forth on that one, being man-made.

Yeah, that's the case for so many, like, of these things. It's like it could be natural, but then... Not this one, though. This is definitely not fucking natural. Do you imagine in 1992 some farmers, are just fucking around and they find this. Find 24 of them as well. And they're like, yo, what did we find?

I think the carvings are modern. Oh, they are? I think so. I think they are from 1992. The parallel lines, they don't know what they are. They have no idea why the parallel lines are there. But I think the kind of carvings depicting like mystical Chinese stuff is a kind of modern addition. Oh, like brand new?

Yeah. Like since they discovered it. Oh, really? Like even those ones on the wall right there? That's so gross. I think so. I may be worth checking. Oh, I hope they didn't do that.

Oh, that would be gross. You imagine? Yeah. But that's always, that site has just always baffled me. Because again, if you look at the Wikipedia page for that site, it's just like three lines. But it's like, what the fuck is this? Yeah. So the carvings.

Are those really old or are those modern? What made you think that they're modern? Because I did a little video on I mentioned this in a video and during my research of that I saw that Oh, so in the research you found out that they were modern. Yeah. Okay. So the lines it seems to be the parallel lines seems to be like how they dug all the stuff out like one layer at a time would you think that? Yeah, but like how and what using what right? Right 24 of them and also they're all so precisely identical. It's like what tool you're using to make sure this was so identical right like what tool you carving stone with? to make a giant cave.

One particular cave stands out for its detailed carvings of dragons, animals, people, and figures, closely resembling the eight immortals from Taoist mythology. These depictions suggest a deep connection to Taoism. Whether these carvings were a part of the original structure or added later, after the caves were rediscovered in 1992, remains a topic of debate. After close examining of the carvings and a noticing of unique method used to chip away at the rock for these images, it seems likely that they were added later. perhaps turning the cave into a sacred place,

reflecting the religious beliefs at the time. Oh, so some gross people carved into it in 1992. That's so crazy that you did that, guys, because that's probably what people have done throughout time. I bet that's probably the people that put their dead body in the pyramid. Yeah, and that's the thing with all the other things in Egypt, is people have carved hieroglyphics onto there, but that doesn't mean that that's when the original thing was built.

Can you go back to the video, please, Jamie, of that site so we could see what it looks like when you're walking around in it? Because the fact that they don't really know who made it, and the fact that these farmers found it in 1994, when you see the scope of it, that's where it really sets in. It's just unbelievably big. Yeah, because I think, like, images are cool, but the way this guy's walking around it, you really get it. And then you have to times that by 24. Imagine those farmers Should we tell anybody If we don't

They're going to kill us They might kill us anyway How much is added Than afterwards If they did the Carver How much like stairs Oh yeah

All the stairs were added for sure I bet Right the stairs that that guy's on Like that's just looked too new obviously But again what was this full Like why did they build this huge All that shit looks new Yeah

Why did they Like what is this The car I mean, lastly, maybe they're trying to make the carvings to make it seem like it was older and people would come wonder and just come look and it'd be a tourist attraction. Like maybe without art, they didn't think it would get enough people to visit. I think it's also to kind of connect it to kind of, you know, more like contemporary cultural China rather than, because I mean, who knows how old this could be? That's crazy. Because it's stone.

That's so crazy. The fact that they just found it, just stumbled on it. That's what's the weirdest thing about some of the discoveries, because that's the same with Gobeckley-Tepi. It was a sheep herder, right? Someone found Quebecly Tepe in the 60s, and they didn't think it was anything, so they left it. Really? Yeah, it's like, that guy fucking missed the boat a little bit. No way.

Yeah, some American archaeologists found it in the 60s. What did we find? I can't remember, but they found, like, a little bit of it, and they were like, oh, this is clearly just some, like, you know, contemporary bronze age society. Don't worry about that. That guy must have shot himself. He missed the vote I could be a stoic I could have been the guy

Instead of a fucking sheepherder Yeah Because there was a guy who just found like a stone Right Yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah here it is 1960s survey Conducted by archaeologists from Istanbul

University in the University of Chicago Found some flint and limestone artifacts But they didn't perceive the site as anything more than a medieval cemetery Whoops Whoopsies Whoopsies. Yeah, that was the find of your career. That's so nuts.

What a slip-up. So the sheepherder that found it, I think he just found like a corner of something. And he like kicked it with his boot and was like, what is this? And then started looking around and scraping it off. And then I think once he realized it was really big, they started, he goes like,

maybe I should call somebody. Yeah. Call somebody who knows how to dig. The whole like 5% excavation thing is so puzzling in Quebec. Tepe because I mean to be clear that's kind of how that's like normal practice I think for archaeology but you would think that Gebekli Tepe is like a bit more of a it's a special case it's that's not normal that's that should but it's also they make a lot of money off of tourism of people visiting it the way it is and that would disrupt

everything if you had a bunch of eggheads digging into the ground all around you I see that but you know then they started doing weird stuff like planting all of trees above the ruins and everyone was telling them like hey guys if you do that these trees are going to grow roots the roots are going to destroy what's underneath them yeah and they're like no everything's going to be fine and then they realize oh it's actually destroying what's underneath it that's like a microcosm of the problem with a small section of very vocal kind of mainstream archaeologists i think the whole tree controversy regarding quebecli tepe is because it was jimmy right jimmy bright inside yeah exactly he can't go there anymore you know i'm not surprised

He might have snuck in recently. He did a video, yeah, he did a video. But I think he's banned from the country. From the whole of Turkey. I think he's banned from the site at the very least. It doesn't make sense because wherever you... They're mad at him for telling the truth. Exactly, exactly.

Whatever you think of Jimmy like, he was right. Let's find out of he's banned. I don't want to get Turkey mad at me. Because I think Turkey's probably the... That's probably the birthplace of civilization. Possibly. Of what we think of as civilization. I mean, there's so many different things that they've found in Turkey now.

It's starting to lean people to think that, like, maybe that spot, maybe we've, you know, it's, there was probably a bunch of places like that in the Middle East where civilization had sort of emerged from whatever it happened before. Or the Sahara. Or the Sahara, yeah. What do you think about the richard? Let's get that in a second here. Oh, yeah. Turkey should have banned me when they had a chance. Jimmy's so crazy

If my prior work on Gobeckley-Tepe upset them What I will share in the coming days weeks Is going to take things to another level But because we were cunning around various security protocols And aided with exceptional timing We got the footage Our ancient history belongs to humanity I agree

Anyone that opposes that has no place controlling our lost history Good for you Jimmy Yeah I mean whatever you think about him he was right about the trees. And the fact that they had these people coming out defending the trees and saying the trees were good for archaeological sites, just...

Yeah, I don't know what Jimmy has a degree in, if anything, but he clearly knows a lot about ancient history and he's really interested in it and this, again, this gatekeeping. Like, if you watch his videos and he constantly gets smeared

with all sorts of different horrible claims that he's this and he's that. He's like, if you watch his videos, you know that's not true. He's just a guy who is very fascinated and deeply informed on a lot of the timelines of all these different things and how interesting they are.

And he likes to make videos of them and that's a good thing. Why shouldn't he be allowed to speculate? He's just a guy speculating. And he's really fair and balanced with how he talks about this. And he's good at it, man. He puts together arguments really well. And you just mentioned the reshot structure thing. I've watched his videos on that and like, it's interesting, man.

The way he kind of connects what Plato was saying about Atlantis and brings it all to the Re-shot, it's interesting stuff. It's very interesting because it's also, he talks about how Plato would talk about the mountains to the north and the river to the south. It's like, this all lines up. Concentric rings in the same size as was described as Atlantic. And the Tamun Rasset River system used to run. So it was surrounded by water. How come everybody's like, nah?

Well, it's because you can't prove it, isn't it? Well, it's a little bit of that, but it's also because this YouTube guy is the one talking about it. And that's, if they admit that he was right, that would drive them fucking crazy. They had to with the trees. Yeah. They had to move them. Yeah. Sorry.

But I think he's right about Atlantis too. I think he might be right. There's something about that that's weird. It's also weird if you look at it from a satellite perspective, the satellite imagery where you get to see where it all looks like it's been washed over by water. Yeah. Yeah. Like the whole thing looks exactly like sand looks when the tide comes in and then pulls back.

It's all rippled and it looks like it was pommled by water. Yeah, which would match the sinking into the sea in a single day and night. Exactly. And also, like, how many stories from ancient history depict floods? There's so many of them. Like, we can't, are we going to ignore all of them as myth? Well, the idea that myth doesn't hold any kind of use in understanding the past is just ridiculous because the myth is powerful.

because it's the thing we've collectively remembered as a species, isn't it? So why would we dismiss that as a kind of historical record? And then you've got examples of like indigenous cultures that remember kind of scientific information

through myth. I always go to this example of these kind of islanders during the tsunami in 2004 and they they went to it was the Andaman Islands and the kind of, you know, Western scientists or whatever went to the island

And after the Boxing Day tsunami, and they were like, oh, everyone's going to be dead. Like, they're all going to have been wiped out by this tsunami. And they were fine because they had this myth in their culture that when the sea recedes, you get to high ground because then the waves are going to come that will eat men. And that myth, you know, that has encoded scientific information regarding tsunamis. And that saved their culture's lives. And they had like no casualties compared to, you know, Western or modern people who were devastated. Isn't that crazy? Everybody else was like, wow, look at all the sand.

Yeah. And they were like, woo. I thought the beach was over here. Yeah, and then they all got fucking killed. And then these people, with their myths, scientific information, survived. There's a guy who was hiking in Russia when the most recent tsunami hit, and he was on a cliff. And you see the ocean come in and, like, reach the top of the cliff where his dog is. See if you could find it.

It's crazy. Because he films the thing coming in. Like, this guy is way above the ocean when it starts. And then the water is reaching where he is with his dog. It's just further testament to the power of nature. And we just constantly underestimate nature. And that was just a little wiggle in the ocean. That's just a little wiggle.

Just a little earthquake. A little eight-pointer. And then you think about some of the shit that's going on during all time on Earth. Comet impacts. And like, watch this. So look how high this guy is, right? Way up. Way up, right?

And so as he's up here, you know, he's seeing the, the waves come in. Now, he must have known that this was going to happen because everybody knew this was going to happen. So watch how it's coming in now. And now it keeps coming. It keeps coming all the way to the top where he is. It's nuts.

Look at his dog. Oh, shit. His dog's like, yo. I would be freaking out. I would be running. I wouldn't. I wouldn't trust it. What if it goes over the top where you're at?

You're just guessing. Bro, look how high this water gets. It's terrifying. Yeah, he's out of there now. Look at that. The dog's about to get jacked. I mean, if you get trapped in that, like the bitch, you are not swimming to shore.

That's your life. It's over. I don't care if you're Laird Hamilton. Well, he might swim through that. But isn't that nuts? Yeah, you're fucked. That water got all the way to the top of that hill. so and that's that is like doesn't even register in the news yeah that's just like thing that happens

all the time that's a thing that's like a thing like no big deal no one will remember that in five years no one will remember that in 10 years but if a fucking comet slams into the ocean right there or slams into a glacier a comet the size of you know a few city blocks that's a wrap yeah that's a You have massive flooding, like instantaneous, millions of gallons of water tearing through the landscape. No more ice cap. It's all gone. Yeah, and just any kind of culture that was possibly around, it's just wipes, completely wiped clean from the earth. No record, nothing.

You're Dunsville. There's nothing left. And that's real. This isn't speculation. Like that, we look at the Tunguska impact, and that was the same sort of comet storm that we passed through. Yeah. At the same time of year, and it flattened, like, this enormous chunk of Siberia that still doesn't have trees on it. Yeah.

And that was quite a small thing. Yeah. And it didn't even hit his air impact. Yeah. And if that had happened over a city, that's like millions dead. Millions. So that could be happening on this planet on a regular base. It is. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of fact that we get hit by stuff. Yeah, we're always finding a crater. We're like, oh, this one's three million years old. Look at this fucking crater. Three million years ago, everyone's fucked.

If that, if that estimate is correct that we're hit by a, you know, a cataclysmic impact once every hundred thousand years, then I mean, what does that mean? Well, that's what it gets really weird if you're talking about, like an advanced civilization, like, you know, millions of years ago. Like, imagine if there were. was some sort of advanced life form millions of years ago and then something like that hits. Have you seen that wheel that's like 300 million years old or it's like a preserve? It looks just like a wheel. Have you seen you have this?

What are that? Jamie, could you please search 300 million year old wheel? Are you on TikTok a lot? Like where are you getting this one? I've just seen it about and like it looks like a wheel. It doesn't mean it is a wheel but it looks remarkably. Well there's some of the stuff from

yeah that's the thing. It just kind of looks like a wheel and they found it in a mine and then they flooded the mine which is a bit weird but there's a couple better images of it um i don't know if they'll be on this page but uh yeah there you go that looks like spokes and a wheel they're not i mean could be natural but i mean what the fuck is that you know that looks really weird now what are these these fossilized tracks yeah these are also super old they're called cart ruts again found in turkey Yeah, right, including Sofka, where they, like how I said that, where they cover an area approximately 45 by 10 miles, and how do you say that one?

There's a lot of words today, but I don't know how to say. Cabadocia, home to several clusters of tracks, the discovery of these ruts around the world, a spark debate regarding their purpose, age, and origins in Malta, especially due to the proximity of the tracks to megalithic structures, and the fact that some are now submerged beneath the sea. Yeah, I've seen some of them in Mozart. I went to water, and they go off cliffs. Many researchers suggest these fossilized lines indicate significant antiquity. So if this is like mud that they were pulling these things through, or dirt that they were pulling these things through, and then eventually fossilized into tracks, like what else would be the explanation for something that looks exactly like tracks? Is there a natural explanation for those kind of formations?

I don't see anyone providing. No one has an No one has an idea I mean I didn't really know about the ones of Maltor because I went there and kind of researched it But those ones they don't dispute there They're definitely man-made They just

Well hold on They're definitely man-made because listen to what this says I first saw tracks in stone Fossilized car or terrain Vehicle traces Usually called cart ruts On neogen plantation surfaces Penipleen

In Phygrian Phrygian, Phrygian Plain in May of 2014. They were situated in the field of development of middle and late, how do you say that, Miocene? Miocene Tufts and tough fights. And according to age analysis of nearby volcanic rocks had Middle Miocene age of 12 to 14 million years. Yes, this is Turkey, not mortar, but again, I mean, you've got these cart ruts that look like, you know, some sort of, track and it's millions of years old and then you find that wheel nearby.

That's fucking crazy. And you're like, what is this? I will look at what this says. Coltipin holds, okay, the region that Dr. Coltapen has studied is relatively obscure with guidebooks offering little to know information about it.

While mainstream researchers argue that the tracks are merely petrified remnants of old cart ruts left by wheeled vehicles pulled by donkeys or camels, Coltipin holds a different perspective rejecting these conventional explanations he stated firmly I will never accept it I will always remember many other inhabitants of our planet wiped from our history his research suggested a deeper perhaps forgotten history of Earth in its past civilizations like what because if it's that's the Silurian hypothesis if it was millions of years ago how would we

just we wouldn't know you imagine millions of years ago people had the wheel or something It's something whatever they were was pulling things on wheels and they had cart ruts in the ground. So maybe they didn't have this is fucking crazy. Coltapin theorizes that the civilization responsible for driving these heavy vehicles likely built the numerous identical roads, ruts and underground complexes scattered across the Mediterranean region more than 12 million years. years ago. He acknowledges that petrification can occur relatively quickly, but points to the heavy mineral deposits on the tracks and signs of erosion as evidence of a much older timeline. He also connects these tracks to surrounding underground cities, irrigation systems, and wells, which he believes are millions of years old.

Yes, that's like Darren Queu. So what if Derren Queu is millions of years old and these tracks are related to it? This is so crazy On his website, Coltipin wrote Oh, I hope I'm not fucking his name out We are dealing with extremely tough lithified petrified sediments covered with

A thick layer of weathering That takes millions of years to develop Full of multiple cracks With newly developed minerals in them Which could only emerge In periods of high tectonic activity Whoa Pretty crazy, huh?

That's the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. That's crazy, because I knew those cart ruts existed, but I didn't look into them. I didn't know what the timeline was. I didn't know that there's anybody that's even speculating. That thing looks like a fucking wheel. And it's right in the same place. So you've got this fossilized wheel and these fossilized cart ruts from hundreds of millions of years ago. The wheel was printed in a sandstone of the roof.

guys, drifters tried to cut away the find with the pick hammers and try to take it out to the surface but sandstone was so strong and firm and having been afraid to damage a print they have left it in place at present the mine is closed

and access to the object is impossible the equipment dismantled and the given layers are already flooded get in there why would you flood that I think it was something to do with like just I don't think it's like some conspiracy like hide the wheel hide the wheel but I mean maybe it would but I think it's more just like the practice of what they would they were finished their mining thing and they found this wheel they weren't going to excavate the wheel because they were like bro if that's a real wheel if someone can carve that out of there and realize like if scientists look at it if they get a 3D scan of it and they go okay we have to completely rethink everything if something had a wheel

12 million years ago 300 million 300 what what are we talking about I mean it would it would be like the saloon hypothesis it would be another it wouldn't be human unless you mean we'd have to radically rewrite everything if that was human right but what does that mean then like what are we talking about like different intelligence what other species so maybe there was something like us that lived like medieval humans yeah because millions of years ago it's the same problems like Like, if they're living on Earth, they're dealing with the same kind of physics, they, you know, they have to move materials around. Like, why would you not come up with the same kind of thing, like a wheel? Like, it's a simple invention.

That's what's interesting, too. And we're always finding new dinosaurs. Like, that's a common thing, right? And if these were a type of human being or something similar to human beings, they buried their dead, what are we going to find? Like, what are we going to find after 12 million years? Nothing, except for maybe a fossilized wheel. Yeah, or these wheel tracks. Yeah. Well, what is the conventional explanation of these wheel tracks?

I don't know. But all I know about the ones are Malton, they definitely say they're man-made. I don't know about these ones in Turkey. I haven't really looked into it. Those are crazy. I know. And the fact that they go to underground structures, help me. I know. Well, they're near that. I don't think they directly lead to, like, Derun Kou or anything, but they're nearby. And then, so then you start to think, what if Derren Kouyu is like, you know, to be fair, I think that's probably man-made. But, you know, it's stones. Well, I'm sure it's man-made, but like what kind of man?

And it could have been man-adapted. It could have already been something there, and we kind of changed it. That would be completely fucked if we found out there was another type of human that existed that did all that, 12 million years ago. Or didn't it wouldn't even have to be a human. It could be any kind of life, just intelligence. Right, but there's no evidence is anything other than primates have been that capable of manipulating their environment other than primates, right? I guess so, yeah. And so, well, we also know that there's certain, we're finding new ones all the time, right?

This one that they found, I keep fucking it up, homo juliennes, is that it? What is so? Anticatheria. Close. Anticatheria. Anticathera. I'm going to get that right. I fuck this one, too, the homo julienes.

But this one was larger than us. It had a larger brain capacity. and they know that they just, I mean, this was just published in December of 2024. So they know that they're constantly finding new branches of the human tree. Yeah. And then you got Denisovins or Denisovans, however you pronounce that. And they just reclassified that Dragon Man scholar's Denisivin. And that's a huge...

Yes. So Juluensis, does that I would say that? I've never heard of it. this. Yeah, because it's really new. Yeah. A new big-headed archaic humans bigger than us with big ass heads and big brains. Well, then you kind of get into the thing of like giants and stuff and like could giants have been real and you seem like that's a giant. Exactly. And there is giant primates that have been like confirmed like gigantapithecus or whatever it's called. Yeah. You have hobbit humans like homo florencis or how you pronounce that. But you have hobbit humans. You have giant primates. You have

primates, why can't you have giant humans? I think they did. I think that's why giants are always in the Bible. And I think this thing, how old is this fossil that they found of Juluensis? So this one existed alongside, I believe, alongside at least some versions of man. does it say how old it is 300,000 or million so that would

that would just overlap with us then 300,000 years old yeah right so but here's the thing they don't have a lot of this stuff they don't have a lot of evidence of this creature so right so they have I believe it's one site is that correct is there one site where they found this partly on a very large skull found in China

yeah so how many have they not found that's the real problem with us and this whole fossil record thing is that we're dealing with a very limited amount of information it's very difficult to become information it's very difficult to become evidence

especially when you get up to these again it's the preservation program we can't when you get about this far it's so hard to find stuff you should see what this thing looks like when they do like a 3D image of a depiction first of all they make it look super primitive they cover it with hair and give it jack muscles it looks like this freak

but whatever it is it's way bigger than us and it's a human and it lived alongside us so David and Goliath it's right there and there's also the I think it's called

Meganthropus which is yeah that's what it looks like supposedly meanwhile I probably had a calculator they make everything probably like that

everyone's stupid and walking around in yeah everyone's stupid everyone has a stick in their hand when I was looking up that wheel I came across the London Hammer

oh I've heard of that too but I heard that that was that was the Sol I'm not seeing. I mean, it doesn't make sense. I'll just go with that. It's, it was found in 1936, I think, but the limestone around it is supposedly 100 million years old. Oh, shit, I never heard of this. Yeah, someone had an explanation for that. London, Texas, not England, just so. Yeah. Someone had an explanation for that. I don't remember what it was. I'm looking over mysteries, a lot of people discussing it. Why don't you look up London Hammer debunked? I mean Wouldn't someone want to debunk it I know they would

But I want to know if they're right You know I'm sure someone would want to There's lots of I'm just going There's lots of people saying It's real and fake And there's just not a lot of explanation On how it was found in the old limestone

Okay Radiocarbon dating of the wooden handle And the geological analysis Have largely debunked the idea Of extreme antiquity More details The artifact A London hammer is a metal hammerhead

With a wooden handle found partially encased in a concretion, hard, compact mass of mineral matter. The claim some have interpreted the hammer's presence in the rock as evidence of advanced ancient civilizations or a young earth pointing to the seemingly anomalous placement of a modern-looking tool in ancient rock. Evidence against antiquity radiocarbon dating of the wooden handle has placed its origin within the historical period, not millions of years. Geological processes, the concretion itself is not necessarily ancient. This is what I had read. Minerals and solution can harden around objects dropped or left in cracks or on the surface of soluble rock, according to Gaia. Out-of-place artifacts, while the concept of out-of-place artifacts can be intriguing, the London Hammer doesn't meet the criteria of being considered an out-of-place artifact, as his geological context and dating suggest a more recent origin.

You know, one of the things that I always go to with Egypt is those really bizarre-looking things that almost look like a part of a machine, like that wheel thing. Shist disk, I think. Yeah, something, I don't remember what it's called, some kind of a disc. But it looks like a part of something, like almost a fan. You're looking at that like, okay, what is that thing doing? Is that a turbine? Is that in water? Does something spin?

Like, what is that? The fact that that's real. that one drives me nuts it literally looks exactly like something I mean that's a replicate right you're part of a machine yeah yeah yeah I mean they found the pieces of I've seen someone put it they've cranked it up in water

and it can like displace water in a very unique way yes I don't know if that's you know the use of it but that's a see if you get an image of the actual one not a recreation because I think there's been some some of them they've recreated it because I think it's a very valuable thing so when people are looking at I think a lot of times they're looking at recreations.

Whatever it was, no one can figure it out, right? And it's carved out of stone. So how? What are you doing? What does that thing do? You know? Yeah.

That thing looks like a part of a machine. It looks like a part. Like if, you know, like you have some ancient machine and you've got to, does a bunch of things. It's a beer mixer. Right. But, I mean, if you go with Brian Mareescu, then I need to mix up somehow.

That's true, actually, right? But it's probably... It's probably just one of many different tools that we're missing from back then. If that is just their stuff for making what they call beer. Brian Merarescu is the guy who wrote the Immortality Key. I don't know if you ever read any of his stuff. But a lot of it is about ancient Greece and the Ilusinian mysteries.

Psychedetics again. Yes. I haven't read it, but... Yeah. Yeah, but a lot of it is, you know, what we think of as beer and wine, all their stuff was laced. Yeah. It was all laced with Ergot and a bunch of other stuff and different psychedelics that we haven't really identified yet. Yeah, and they combine that with that kind of spirituality and everything.

And that's why they built the society that they built. Yeah. Which is the craziest thing about, you know, our weirdo, technological, advanced society is disconnected from that because it's illegal. Disconnected from the stars as well Disconnected from light pollution Yeah And we're just all kind of rushing around And this really hectic life of just like

You know Gotta go do this, got to do this And just not sitting back And kind of appreciating What was that? This is from an unknown author And Reddit That's when they put it on a drill

Oh so they made one of it And put it on a drill Yeah That's great if you have a drill I mean it is that So we're assuming that the Egyptians had a drill I'm assuming they had a drill

I mean they have all those drill holes don't they? And they find all these... And people are like, oh, that's normal. Yeah. Well, I can explain that away. And there's that spiral thing. I can't remember what it's called, but... What's it called? The Chris Dunn did like a...

He put like a thread around it to show it was a spiral group. Oh, yes, yes, yes. The groove of it. Yeah. And he also estimated the revolutions per minute that would take to do something like that. Yeah. So you're talking about something that, like, is going into extremely hard rock. And looks like it has some extremely hard tip that can cut that rock.

What is it made out of? Yeah, that's it, that's it. And these are, like, serious people. These are engineers that are saying this kind of thing. And the problem is that, you know, archaeologists and Egyptologists are all a certain type of person that don't have the expertise in, like, you know, recognizing machined artifacts. Also, they're dorks and they don't connect with people because they're so arrogant and the way they talk about these things. It freaks people out and it makes them not want to listen. This is, I think, the thing that frustrates them the most about alternative historians like Graham Hancock.

He's really interesting. He's compelling. He's a great communicator as well. Great communicator and a wonderful guy. And people love him. And they go, oh, fuck that guy. He's our racist. He's a this.

He's a that. And he's more popular than them as well. Yes, that's what drives them nuts. But it should be exciting to them because it's stimulating people's desire to know where we come from. And that's supposed to be your business. That's supposed to be what you're into. And all he's doing is asking questions and like putting forward a thing. I don't think Graham would ever claim to like be, you know, certain or to, he's just saying this could be possible, you know?

Yeah, he's got some ideas that I think are a big stretch. And then he's got some ideas that I think are dead on the head. But he will tell you that himself. Yeah, exactly. He will tell you that himself. He's just trying to figure this out. And that's the position he always has come from. Yes.

But they kind of see it and they're saying, how dare you claim that you have proof? And I don't think he's ever said he's got proof. He's such a nice and sensitive person that like this stuff really fucking hurts his feelings. I can imagine, mate. It must be hard. And it's not necessary. Everybody should be working together. They really should.

And the academics, everyone knows that you had a limited amount of information before and there's more information now. Like your students are not going to hate you if you say, listen. I wrote a whole book on this. This is so crazy, but I was so wrong. They would respect you more. They were probably respect you more. Yeah. The thing about it is like that book is still out there and academics like to point at each other and make fools of each other.

They really love to do that. They really deliver to, I see them do it to each other on Twitter all the time. They'll dismiss someone's credentials and say his work as shit. And they're like, God, you're such bitches. They're brutal. Brutal to each other, let alone someone who's... To each other. Yeah, like high school girls.

talking shit about each other in chat messages, you know, or high school boys. They do the same thing. But it's, or fucking grown men do it, obviously. And these guys are just like that. But it's also, I think some of these guys are socially stunted because they've spent so much time with their head in academia and their head in books that they don't realize that the rest of the world sees that behavior in a very transparent way. If you're acting like a bitch online and all you do is say,

mean things about people it's that's not you're not hiding what you are every reasonable person sees that and instantaneously knows what's going on this is irrational behavior you're calling people racist because they're questioning the timeline of human civilization based on evidence based on really bizarre things that no one can explain based on water erosion on rocks Now you're racist? Like, what are you talking about? It's just a way of like, you know, shutting down the ideas. It's exactly what it is.

It's exactly what it is. But it's done by people that are socially stunted. And they don't understand that most normal, rational people who see them behave this way are never going to listen to them again. By doing this bitchy thing, you have discounted your own participation in any true, like, intellectual discourse. because everybody knows you're a bad faith actor now. You're a bad person. You're saying things because you're trying to shut down a conversation instead of saying, huh, tell me what you did.

How did you get to this? So what is he saying? Water erosion. Whoa. Show me. Show me the water erosion. Well, fucking hell. That does look like water erosion.

Okay. Maybe we should like reevaluate this. Maybe we should bring you in to teach. You know, like what are we doing? We're gatekeeping. We're gatekeeping information because it's pretty. Protecting fragile egos of socially stunted people. Yeah.

And they've always, you know, they... Not to say they haven't done great things. Exactly. They have done great things. They do deserve the credit for that. But we should give them amnesty for fucking up. But no one... Yeah, I mean, we wouldn't be able to talk about these things without, you know, mainstream. I know.

Imagine what Harry in the math department, when you've been shitting on a string theory and now it finds, oh, look, look, who's wrong about the timeline? Yeah. Oh, it's Mike the fucking. fucking genius. They're like shit at each other and throwing coffee at each other. They're a bunch of animals. They're just like any other group of men, you know? It's just a human thing, isn't it?

We're all just humans. Sure. That's just, you know, chess players cheat. Yeah, exactly. Like, even genius ones. And often like these people, this is like, you know, the thing that they've worked on and the kind of biggest success they've had in their lives. Yes.

And they don't want that taken away. They don't want to take it away. And they don't want to deal with those other academics. We're going to stick it in their face. 40 years Bob 40 years you've been teaching lies How's that feel How about all those college kids

That left with a real fucked up view Of human history because of you Bob Come on Bob Yeah I mean Poor Bob Bob is going to just like write a note And blow his brains out Yeah

But I mean I don't know I just I hope that things are going to shift Over time And over the next few decades We're going to see a big One funeral at a time I guess so that is the Max Planck quote

Isn't it But I hope it doesn't have to take that long And I wish people would shift their positions, man, because... Well, again, I think new people coming in. It's like a lot of things. You know, new people come in. They have new ideas. And the old dinosaurs.

Yeah. But I think it's... I don't know. Our adherence to these ideas has kind of distorted our understanding of history and it's kind of prevented us for looking for things because, you know, we assume that these things... Oh, shit, sorry. No worries.

I almost unplugged the microphone. That wheel is still freaking me out. Yeah. It's crazy, huh? It's crazy. But we just don't look for it. of these things. Have you seen any of Jesse Michael's stuff? He's the

kind of UAP kind of guy, isn't it? Yeah. I haven't really. I don't I do kind of delve into that, but I don't, I mean, I don't like talk about or anything but... His latest one is... Is this to do the mummy? Yes, the tridactal mummies in Peru. Yeah, that's the one. Where they've done scans

of them, and they have a fully intact bone structure. Looks like an actual creature. Fully intact. Tell me about that. Three toes, different shaped head than us, whatever it is. And also, 1700 years old. Like, what is that? So what's the, like, debunking of that?

Well, there's some of them that people have made that seem to be a complete fabrication. It seems to be some of them, they've pieced together bones and created, like, a fake artifact and tried to sell it off. But then there's these other ones that were found that don't look like that at all. They look like they're huddled up One of them has a fetus inside of it Yeah What the fuck? Yes

Yeah yeah yeah They And whatever these things are Show them the video When you see the scans of it American Alchemy Jesse Michael's awesome show Yeah he's cool man

I watched his show on here He's awesome Yeah Am I C-H-E-L-S Isn't there also I might have made this up But isn't there also like Depictions of this

In kind of ancient Yes Yeah is that true Ancient artwork, three-fingered, three-toed people with big heads. Oh, that's weird then? Weird. When you see this thing, this thing looks exactly like these. This is it.

This is an actual scan of this mummy. Look at the size of the head. Look at the shape of the head. Look at all the bones. Look all the ribs, everything. That's fucking bananas. Now, Jamie, show him what it looks like before they scan it. So they found them encased in, I think it's dichotomous earth.

Is that what it was? But how old do they think these things are? Some of them are 700 years old, and some of them are as old as 1,700 years old, I believe. So not that old, but look at that thing. So this thing, this thing. That is ridiculous. That seems to be an actual mummy of a real creature. Yeah.

And here's the thing. Is that Jesse there? No, yeah, Jesse's right there. There is. Jesse is doing real journalism on this. It sounds crazy to everybody, including me, as it comes out of my mouth. But then when you look at that scan, not crazy anymore. That's one of a smaller one.

But the bigger one with the big head, that one right there, that one's crazy. Like, what the fuck is that? If that was a person, you would run for the hills. With a head, that shape with three fingers and three toes. And the fact that they have artwork depicting these things that goes back, yeah because if it's a fake then how are they depicting it right what is this like did they look at look at the scans of the foot go back to that this is crazy it's almost if like it defies the possibility of it being fraudulent it defies it it's like make that you show me how

you can make that where you can scan it and you see the tissue and the ligaments and the tendons and the cartilage and the joints and they're not human-shaped. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. I haven't really looked into this, but this is kind of nuts. If these were real creatures that existed at one point in time alongside us, and they're just now finding them, now then you get into ultimate weirdness,

because like, okay, what's the NASCAR lines for? Because that's the same part of the world. Yeah. And then there's other weird, like, artwork of kind of like things that look alien in, you know, South America. Well, there's one of the NASCAR lines. It looks like a fucking spacesuit. Looks like a guy in a spacesuit.

And also, like, why would you make artwork that you can only see from the sky? Yeah, that's always puzzled me about that. Weird. So weird. The same part of the world where you're finding these things? Mm-hmm.

And they're, like, perfectly done as well. Yeah. And they're perfect, like, you know, lines and shapes and weird. And they keep finding new ones. Yeah, they do, yeah. Yeah. It's very strange.

I mean, South America is just, you know, know, it's, I think South America and Egypt slash Turkey are the two kind of areas that are the most kind of, you know, mysterious. And, like, there's so much going on there that I think we haven't quite acknowledged how much mystery there is still left. And, yeah, fascinating. Especially when you throw this in, I mean, I haven't really, I haven't looked into this at all. Crazy. Crazy. Like, what is that? Yeah, that's mad. And what if they find out that's not a human at all? Well, I mean, it doesn't look like a human. No. Right. Like, I mean, it could be. I guess It could be some bizarre mutation, right?

Like those ostrich feet people in Africa. Have you seen that? Yeah, yeah, I guess so. It's possible that there's some weird mutation, and this is a bunch of people with big heads and three fingers and three toes. But it doesn't seem like it. It seems like something different. Also, what are you doing with three fingers?

You're operating electronics only. Like, you ain't picking shit up. You can't do anything. You don't have opposable thumbs. The idea that you have something that looks like us, It doesn't have a pulsable thumbs, like... Yeah, that's like a big evolutionary kind of an advantage. What is this thing doing?

Yeah. What are you doing? Unless all you do is like put your hand on a machine and you control everything with telepathy and you just control it by touching it. And you don't need... You know, maybe it gets to a point where we stop using our thumbs and they just fucking drift away.

We only need a couple of digits. So what is like Jesse's theories on what... Oh, their fingers have an extra digit too. What does that mean? So, you know how... like, you know, your finger bends in a certain way. They have, what is an extra phalanche, what would you call it? An extra

little, you know, you have like one, two, three bones. They have a fourth. Fourth bone, so you could type quicker with the three fingers. I don't fucking know. But it's like, that's not us. That's something weird. The skull shape is weird, but it looks like a real thing.

Yeah, if that's real, that kind of, you know, changes everything. Changes everything. And you don't hear in the New York Times, you're not seen in the New York Post, it's not in the Wall Street Journal, but they might have actually found a life form in mummified form that's not us, that looks a lot like these fucking aliens that people have been talking about since the beginning of time. And why is, so why is no one talking about it except for Jesse?

I don't know, man. Look at that. Look at the x-rays of them. Look at see how has an extra little thing at the end. That's an incredible fake if that's a fake. That's not our fingers, man. That's a little extra joint. and it's not the fingers

aren't even you'd have to be like the freakiest long fingered motherfucker that's ever lived to have fingers that long those are weird and yes that's not us that's something different

that's bizarre again anybody who tells you that we know it all they're full of shit if that's real you don't know anything if that's real

if that becomes mainstream if this is from Jesse and I hope it does and they do genetic testing on this thing and then someone figures out what it is and it's got different chromosomes than us and different DNA than us like, now what?

Yeah, exactly. Now what are the chances we have got everything? Because these people seem to think that we've got it all worked out now. It's zero. The chances are zero. It's never been the case. And we've always thought

we've had it all worked out all the way through history. It's always like, oh, now we know the answers and there's always a major paradigm shift around the corner. Exactly. So what's around the corner now? Exactly.

Something like this. or the ancient civilization thing? Yeah. Well, it's so fun, though. It's really exciting. It's a really exciting time to find things out because if this had emerged 50 years ago, 75 years ago, there's no Jesse Michaels.

There's no YouTube. There's no podcast like this to talk about Jesse Michaels and send a bunch of people over to go watch it. More people know, the better, let's like look at this. This might be real. This is crazy. And that's why it probably is. coming out in this kind of day and age

because the incident's not been around for very long. But why isn't MSNBC covering this? Why isn't CNN covering this? They should all be covering this. They should all be going, look at these scans that this YouTuber Jesse Michaels did. If this is true, this seems like

something that's not a human being. I know. It's just too... Aliens are real. This is from 2017. Someone had found just a hand. Whoa. It's obviously the same.

Bizarre three-fingered hand in 2017. Mammified hand found in a tunnel in Peru. It said these fingers had six bones. Whoa. Regular human bone has three. Whoa. Dude. Mammified hand is made up of bone and skin suggesting that it's not fake,

unless it was somehow made using real bones, flesh, and skin. But how would you think? How did you do that a long time ago, and then mummify it? Yeah. It's all so strong. strange. And that part of the world, they've had stories about these kind of creatures forever. That's why they have all this artwork about them. Not only that, that is an exact replica. Like when, if you ever see the movie Moment of Contact, the James Fox movie, it's about an incident in Brazil in 1994, 96, the Virginia Brazil incident where there was a crashed UFO. These police officers went to go. and see this crash, there was some sort of electrical storm, and then they found this creature that seemed to have been injured from the craft. The guy picks it up, takes it in his car,

they bring it to a hospital. The hospital refuses to treat it. They bring it to another hospital. That hospital, they don't know what happened with the records or what happened, but they do know that the guy who carried it physically died of a horrible bacterial infection that they could not cure. They said it smelled like sulfur and it had three fingers and three toes. It looked like that thing. It had a long head

and whatever this creature was that is mummified. It looks exactly like what these people were talking about from this UFO crash in Virginia, Brazil. It's the entire folklore of the town. They have a UFO when you enter into the town of Virginia. They have like this giant,

statue of a UFO. There's still people alive to this day that live in that town that will tell you the story. And you can go across town, you can go here. They all have the same story. There's multiple UFOs in the sky. One of them crashed. They found two creatures.

One of them was alive. They think one of them was dead. Whatever this crash site was, they bring in the movie moment, excuse me, movie moment of contact, they bring this police officer to the site and he starts weeping. Like if that guy's If he's a liar, he's the greatest actor of all time.

The guy starts freaking out when he starts telling the story of what he found in the 1990s. It brings him back to that moment. The women who saw the being, they're like in their 40s now. There were little girls when they saw it. And they all have the same story. And it matches. Three-fingered, three-toed, looked like that. Looked exactly like that.

Man, if I wasn't doing the ancient history thing, I'd love to talk about this stuff as well. It might be the same thing. Yeah. I mean, you never know. You never know. I'd love to like maybe make some, you know, connection. But the thing is I don't, I just don't want to give anyone more ammunition to come after me and shit. Like they're calling me a pseudo. They're coming after you, buddy. Don't worry about it. Yeah, they're going to. After all the nonsense that we've talked. But it's fun to talk nonsense. And this is definitely fun nonsense. But that body's not nonsense. The Vargini thing I don't think is nonsense either. It's a really weird one. That's kind of stories from however long ago matched to the mummified bodies. That's weird. Not just that, but biblical stories about creatures that are demons that smell like sulfur. Yeah. Right? If you're terrified of something and you think you've decided that it's a demon because it's actually an advanced life form from somewhere else and it smells like sulfur, like whatever they have that got on this guy's skin that gave him this horrible bacterial infant, it's all documented. The guy died.

He was a young, healthy soldier and he's dead within like a couple of weeks. yeah that's that's not coincidence they're giving them antibiotics this is the 90s it's not like the 1800s you know they're treating him with modern medicine and he's fucked and he dies what the fuck

yeah and this is the guy that was carrying the alien are you fucking kidding me mate I used to look into this and it smells like sulfur and it looks exactly like a thing that's a real thing yeah they have a real mummy of these things

see if you could get an image an artist depiction so they had these kids describe what they saw and they drew this three-fingered, three-toed little, it was almost like a purple-looking thing. Do you think that's linked in any way to all this kind of mysterious stone construction

we find in South America that no one can really explain and here we go? What is the image, the thing that was curled up in the ground? There was like an image, yeah, that one, that one with the red eyes. No, yeah, that one. That's what it looked like. somebody actually made a sculpture of that

what exactly what it looked like and gave it to us we have it at the mothership but the thing is if it was an alien why would it look so human if that makes sense unless it came from this planet I suppose right but does it look human maybe that's just like a con that's a

maybe that's a constant thing when you evolve from primates and maybe there's a thing about the alien gray too that's always been like this archetype of what we eventually will become More kind of like the big, like skinny limbs. Yeah, so this is how those guys described it.

This is how they described what it looked like. Man, that looks an awful like that creature. The big eyes, the whole deal, the weird spindly body. That drawing right there where it's hunched over, the one to the right of your cursor. Yeah, that's the one that's my favorite. Because it's like, what is it? Ninety-six. Like, I don't know.

I don't know what the hell that is. but what if it's real? And what if those things in Peru are exactly that thing? And what if, you know, this thing has visited human beings multiple times in history? So would you say it's from another planet and... Who knows? It might be from here. That's why I think, because if it's got the kind of similar kind of like primate form... It might...

Look, if these things are... They're finding these mummified remains in Peru. Clearly, it was here. Why would we assume it's not from here? Yeah. Like maybe we just have a really inaccurate timeline of life on this planet. And maybe some things went undersea, which sounds nuts. But then there's all these fucking videos of things coming out of the water.

That's where I would hide if I, it was trying to hide. Yeah. I mean, if you've mastered gravity at the point where you create like a bubble around everything you are and you travel through it without any resistance whatsoever. And they've clocked things going underwater that are going like 500 knots underwater. You have no idea how it does that. Yeah, well, it's all kind of, it's like this into, I mean, you probably know more about this than me, but my only exposure to the kind of UAP thing was traditionally through, I'm a big fan of Blink 182, and there's Tom DeLong. Oh, I've had Tom DeLong. Yeah, you've had him on.

You've had Travis on as well. Yeah, he needs to get Mark on. He's the third. Yeah. He's complete the set. I love Travis. I've always, I'm in a band. Not that I don't love Tom either.

I just thought he was crazy. I thought he was crazy when I had him on before. And now I'm like, damn, I think he might be on to something. Well, he's so cool. He's always been like an inspiration for me. Like I make music and he's been, you know, a big, you know, inspiration for me. But he always got me into, he kind of got me into the UAP thing from a while ago. Yeah. He's all in. Yeah. He's all in. But I do have to say that if I wanted, if I was the government and I wanted to like spread a bunch of crazy stories about UFOs, I'd tell them to people like Tom. And I tell them to people like me. I mean, I think people do that on this podcast. I think some of the. information that gets shared on this podcast is probably bullshit. To kind of like, you know, muddy the waters. Yeah.

And to prime people for disclosure. Yeah. I think the, if I was in charge and if I had done the how put-off thing, you know the how put-off was assigned to do? Yes. So they gave him a numerical value for all these different things that would be positively influenced by disclosure and negatively influenced. And you assign a value one.

1 through 10, like, what's going to happen to religion, what's going to happen to politics, banking, all that stuff. And this was during the Bush administration. So Bush essentially said to Hal put off, the Bush administration said, we have been working on a crash retrieval program, we have vehicles that are not from this world. We are not alone. If we release this information to the general public and disclose it, what will be the negative impact? What will be the positive impact? Is it overall positive or is it overall negative?

And everyone, there was a bunch of different independent people that they assigned this task to. Everyone came up with much more on the negative than on the positive. So they decided to not disclose it. This is how put off story. I can't tell you if it's true or not. Yeah. But why do they think it was negative, be negative? Just because it's like the shock. Yeah. The shock. The complete lack of any um real faith in authority figures like why would you listen to the president of the united states when there's fucking UFOs reading your mind and traveling instantaneously here from wherever they're they're from like all of our systems of power and control they all go away because we don't you're not in control anymore clearly the aliens are in control people would

worship the aliens but do you but do you think they're kind of like drip feeding us and then at some point it would come out? But then isn't that going to happen anyway? I don't think it's totally organized because I think most things in the government are not totally organized. I think there's a lot of chaos going on at all levels of the government. I really believe that. And to think that in this top secret UFO crash retrieval world, there's not a lot of chaos. Just humans. There's chaos in everything. There's chaos in the FBI. They're having problems. The CIA has its own problems. Every organization has great people and a bunch of clowns and a bunch of nutty people that don't want to lose their positions of power and these little struggles inter-office bullshit in every

organization with human beings so for sure that's the same thing with UFO disclosure yeah and then um i think there's also the problem with if there really is a crash retrieval program and it's been going on for a long time and it's been going on without congressional oversight that means you've been lying and you've been misappropriating money and... You guys jail. Everybody's fucked. Yeah, yeah. So what's the best way to like, you've got to slowly trickle out the information?

And you've got to mix it up with a whole lot of bullshit. A whole lot of nonsense and then fly some drones over people and see how they respond. I remember that thing. There's something recently about that, wasn't it? Yeah, the New Jersey thing. Yeah, there's giant drones over New Jersey. And then they try to find them with fighter jets. The lights would shut off and they'd take off.

What was the, like, how? How did they... Who fucking knows? They just brush over that. Yeah. They say, oh, it's ours. Like, they didn't even tell us exactly what was going on, but it was almost like a national emergency. It was a national story.

It was, I remember Trump saying that he was not going to go play golf in New Jersey because they were flying in New Jersey. Was this pre-election? Was this before he became president? I think... Was it Biden? I think it was during. Was it during? Yes.

I think it was... December, January-ish. I think it was December. I don't think he was the president yet. No, he became president in January. Right, right, right. But was it post-election? It was post-election, right?

I just can't remember as Mike Ben's saying that this has happened a couple of years in a row, and they were waiting for it to happen this year. It did. And then he also predicted it would just disappear a few weeks later, and it did. Yeah, like, what was that? Maybe it's just a grand show that they put on for us to distract us from some other stuff. Maybe there's some banking fucking decisions that were going on at that time that we would have probably paid attention to. Yeah, look at the drones.

Yeah, no, that's a real thing. Yeah, of course, of course. I would do that if I had some drones. Or maybe if I was trying to pull off some shenanigans. Couldn't it just be, you know, like advanced weapons or technology that, you know, we have or, you know, your government has that could... Most certainly. Because it doesn't have to be alien just for it to be, like, more advanced than, like, the kind of public knows about. If that makes sense?

Yeah, most certainly. I would imagine that a lot of what we're dealing with is advanced American military craft. And probably done through some top secret research that was real shady. Probably a lot of people spent a whole lot of money doing this stuff. And there's probably some, like, this is, the people that have gone to S4 and talked about it, you can't, it's all anecdotal. So you never really know if they're telling the truth. but there's been people that have no reason to lie that say that they have technology that is 40, 50 years past anything that you can imagine right now.

Yeah. And they already have it. And they've been spending shit piles of money, making the wildest things your mind can ever conceive of. And they already have it. And it probably looks super alien when they take it out. Yeah. I mean, why would they tell us what the most advanced thing they have is?

They wouldn't. That's not going to be public information, is it? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So even current history is confusing. Yeah. So the idea of you knowing exactly what happened 5,000 years ago, shut up, bitch. You don't know. You definitely don't know if you find a 12 million-year-old wheel. Like 300 million-year-old.

It's all too nuts. Yeah, exactly. We don't know what's going on now. So how can we know what's going on? So the wheel was 300 million years, but the car tracks. The cart tracks are what? 12 million years? I don't know. That's what this guy says. Listen, it's all fun. It's all fun and it's very interesting and I'm really glad you're out there because I have binge watched your show. You do a great job. It's really informative and interesting and speculative and fascinating because I just love the subject and I think you just do a great job. So I hope you get a lot of views and you keep doing it and I'm happy that you're doing it and I'm really happy that you came here. Well, thank you Joe. I mean it's been a great honor to be here to be out in Austin. I've loved it. It's an incredible one experience and yeah. I've been really fun talking to you, and I'm super appreciative of the opportunity. Yeah, so thanks so much. My pleasure.

So tell everybody how to find you, social media stuff. Just put my name in. I'm Michael Button, and I'm on YouTube, I guess, and they'll probably find me if I'm doing my job correctly. That's me on the screen. Michael Button One. Michael Button One, yeah. There's someone else out there who's got my name.

Yeah, so don't go to Michael Button. Fuck that guy, man. Go to Michael Button one. That seems so silly. Fuck the other Michael Button. Come to me. Maybe he's a nice guy. Yeah.

He's got a cool name. He's got your name. All right. Well, thank you, brother. Appreciate it. Thank you for being here. Bye, everybody.