The Joe Rogan Experience - #2371 - Fedor Gorst

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

Fedor Gorst is a professional pool player whose career highlights include championship wins at the World Nine-Ball Championship, the U.S. Open Pool Championship, and the Derby City Classic.www.fedorgorst.com 50% off your first box at https://www.thefarmersdog.com/rogan! Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $300 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 9/29/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast checking out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night All day We're up Yeah, this is a company called M Theory Sent this to me And this was when

Efren Reyes snuck into America Under the nickname Caesar Morales Yeah And won some big tournament at Reds Wherever that is Probably in Chicago I don't know Put the headphones on dog

Let's get around I was like, you don't have to or we can not have headphones Do they feel weird to you? That's good No, no, no, it's good You're okay?

I don't care It doesn't matter It's just good if like We show a video Or something like that Right Dude, you came that close To be two year in a row

U.S. Open champion That fucking close Yeah, how's that feel? I mean, I feel super tired Because my schedule has been hectic lately Yeah You know, I played the world championships

In Saudi Where I also lost in the finals Did you play the Florida Open too? Florida Open and I played the tournament in between that. So basically I played back to back to back to back four events. Wow. It's been over a month already, you know, staying on the road, constantly playing.

Dude, there's the real good argument. You're the best player in the world. And if you're the best player of the world, I think you are. You got my vote. If you're the best player in the world today, you're the best player of all time. Well, I mean, it's really tough too. A lot of old guys talk a lot of shit, but I'm just saying. Always.

I mean, this guy on my shirt, he certainly gets the, like, as far as like, the greatest of all time, most achievements of all time, Effron, the Z shot, like all the crazy stuff that he could pull off with the cue ball. Did you see the shot that I made recently? Which one? The three rail kick. I did see that, yeah. I mean, it is tougher. It is a tougher kick.

It wasn't as, you know, the situation wasn't like, it was a hill hill that you played against Earl, you know, in the final. So, obviously, it's a much, much different environment, but the kick that I made was sick. It was pretty sick.

Well, you know what? The Filipinos put kicking on the map, right? Oh, for sure. They're the best. Ephron, when he came over here, they changed the whole game. Jose Pariko was really good at it, too. Carlo Bia don't know. It's the best kick here.

So good. It's amazing. Yeah, that's the one. That's the one. Good thing I have a filmmaker traveling with me everywhere, filming me now. That's a crazy shot. Yeah, I actually lost that match to Duong Kouk. Almost made shape on the two bowl, too.

Yeah, that's what. horrible when you make an amazing shot and then lose the match yeah that's how it goes yeah look it's a crazy game and the game that you guys are playing right now the reason why I said I think if you're the best player today you're the best player of all time because the conditions are very different for people who don't know who don't play pool okay if you're going to a regular bar and you're playing on like a bar table those pockets might be five and a half inches well also in U.S. people are playing on seven foot tables versus we play barn, sure. They're nine foot tables and the pockets are four inches. And so when you get two

cue balls, you try to put them next to each other and try to stick, you can't even get close to sticking them in a four inch pocket. It's really tight conditions. And I think there's better players now than I've ever seen in my life. And I've been watching pool for 35 years and playing pool for 35 years. I've never seen better players than play today. And I think you're the best today. So in my book, that makes you the best of all time. Well, like you, you said the conditions are completely different the game changed even in the last three years i think the game changed drastically yeah you know we went we changed the breaking formats used to be one ball on the spot with the magic crack no three point rule so all the people at home that don't play pool

go what the fuck are they talking about we're talking about professional pool ladies and gentlemen yeah yeah we have all kinds of little little rills yeah the nine ball on the spot made a big difference right yeah nine ball the spot break box yeah when you were showing me today how to break that way. I was like, oh, that's crazy. Like, you have to hit it with draw and you have to aim towards the back ball. Like, wow. Yeah, well, we can't really say that. Oh. Yeah. Too late. The others. The others. The others. Yeah. It's an insanely competitive game now. And shout out to match room, right? Because match room with DeZone, they've done an amazing job with boxing and a bunch of other sports. But what they're doing with pool is crazy. There's so many events. And it's all over

you can get it on the world nine ball tour it's wntt.tv right yeah they so so they're I think they moved from dozen to that to their subscription type uh amazing it's amazing and then there's also their matchroom pool YouTube channel which has tons of stuff on it for free it's like they are elevating the game for sure and they are the reason why pool is where it's at today you know versus where it was five years ago I think yeah it's huge I have friends who send me videos now like people just randomly find videos on TikTok or on Instagram, you know. Pool is booming on social media, and, you know, I do my own social media.

I have a filmmaker that follows me everywhere. We, you know, try to film as much stuff. It was very funny what you did in New York City, or in Atlantic City, rather, when you went to that pool all and you went under skies. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was Metron's idea. I think it was pretty cheap budget. We could do it a lot better, especially when we go to Asia, I think. You know.

You can't sneak around any poolhole. Well, if you put me and make me look like a grandpa or something. Okay. You know, like you'd have to get into disguise. Yeah, yeah. Well, their disguises are really good today. Have you ever seen those CIA disguises that they use? Uh-uh.

So, apparently, this is a story. Apparently, and this was told to me by someone who I really trust, Obama was having a meeting with someone in one of the rooms in the White House. And he's in the middle of having this meeting with someone who he's met before and had conversations with before. And then they inform him, Mr. President, we just want to let you know this is not who you think you're talking to. And we just wanted to demonstrate how good the special effects makeup is and masks are. This is not that person. And he was like, what?

Now, I haven't confirmed this. I don't have Obama's number. Well, I'm like, where I can call him up and go, bro, is that real? Yeah. But I believe it's real. because I've seen up close like really in like when Tony Hitchcliffe does kill Tony sometimes they have makeup artists that dress people up and make them different people like they did a Biden one and Kyle Dunnigan played Elon Musk and I didn't even recognize him

I was like who's this guy like this is this is weird guy like acting weird and they're like that's done again playing Elon Musk I was like no way right in front of him I thought it was just some It didn't look like Elon Musk. It looked like a weird guy. But it didn't look like him. And it looked like a person. It didn't look like a guy in makeup. It didn't look like a mask.

It looked like a real person that just was weird looking. I was like, this is crazy. Yeah, that's what we should do. And I think it's going to be really, really good if we do that in Asia, like Vietnam or Philippines. You got to work on that voice, though, son. You rush you all day with that voice. I know. I know.

I can only be like an undercover, I don't know. Yeah. Somebody from. And for people at home, we go, how, how. could he be the number one in the world if he just lost? Aloysius Yap should be the number one in the world. He should be the number one of all time. It's like long races are really what's up, right?

Well, it's by the rankings, I'm number one, by the rankings. And what we have now with Metrum, it's two years of prize money combined throughout all the tournaments. But I think the real matches that you play where you really get to see who's the best, and this is only for like hardcore pool nerds. The real ones, like the one you did with Shane, It was like three days, race to 40 each day, 120 games total.

Oh, yeah. That way, there's no questions. No. After three days and 120 games of pool, you know, possibly 239 games of pool. That's how almost won the first time we played. Really? Because I lost the first time. That's right.

I lost 120 to 116. I was down and up, up and down. And last day I was up by... almost 15 games, I remember, and he came back and beat me. Yeah, it was super impressive. But it was even more impressive, you coming back the next year and steamrolling him. Like, you won by quite a few games. How many did you win by?

By 42, I think. 42 games is crazy. Yeah, 120 to 78. I think that was a score. And that was for, did you advertise how much that money was being gambled? Well, we were advertising that it was for 50, but it was a little bit. bit more. So you had a bunch of other people chumming it, throwing money in? Yeah, yeah. Well, myself included. So you don't want to say the actual total? I don't know. Okay. Are we allowed?

I don't know. I mean, unless you're lying to the IRS, which as a new citizen, I would say, don't do that. So yeah, we'll play for 50. We'll play for 50. Oh, no, you're going to get in trouble. I don't think you were a citizen last time you were here, right? I'm not a citizen now. I have a A green card. Oh, okay. What do you have to do to become a citizen? I think you have to be a permanent resident for five years, and then you can apply if you follow certain rules. Like you have to stay in the U.S. for six out of six months of the year, out of the calendar year, each year.

Well, you better stay away from Home Depot because those dudes are getting crazy. Yeah. They're snatching people up left and right. Yeah, yeah. No, I think I do everything right. You know, I pay my taxes. Yeah, I follow all the rules. Well, you got to play.

That's weird that you, if you're not a citizen, but still you get to play for the Moscone Cup. That's kind of crazy. Well, match room changed the rules. You know, as soon as I got the green card, and I wasn't able to play in any official tournaments back then. Right, because you were Russian. Yeah. Yeah. So the...

Which is really crazy. It was really weird. Yeah, when you think about it, even the first band that we got as a Russian athlete happened because of hockey players. The W-A-G-A-Vada Anti-Dopings Association, they... banned all the Russian athletes. It doesn't matter what sport you're in. What? Really?

Yeah. Oh, so it had nothing to do with the war? The first one happened before the war was 2018 or 19, I think. All Russian athletes competing in America? All Russian athletes competing everywhere. It was everywhere. We played World Cup of Pool, I remember, in the UK under no flag. But we were still able to compete.

Like, after the war, we were not allowed to compete anywhere. Wow. Wow. You know what's interesting? It never stopped the UFC. Like, not only do Russian fighters fight in the UFC, but they're celebrated. No one cares. Because they're not under the Olympic Committee, I think. They're definitely not. It's a professional sport. Well, and that's what happened with Metron, too. You know, it's a private company. It's not a federation or association. They're just a private company, and they basically make their own rules. I was just glad that they didn't make it political. I'm like, think fucking this guy is out there causing trouble like he's just a fighter he's just as a professional

mma fighter you know this is this is what he does and let's think about that let's not think about what these other people are doing that are in the same country as him it's not him yeah so in 2000 they didn't they didn't care like they let a bunch of like for the entire time of the war ukrainian guys and russian guys are fighting on the same card sometimes yeah yeah well i'm glad that just you know, Metro, Metrum went out of their own way to make an offer to me and say, you know, you can represent the United States. And at the time, we were playing the U.S. Open in Atlantic City two years ago, or was it, yeah, two years ago.

And the crowd is cheering for me. You know, I'm living in the United States already. Everybody's treating me like I'm one of their own. And now it's obviously completely different. You know, if you watch the U.S. Open from last week, everybody's supporting me. Everybody's cheering for me. Everybody's already used to me living here. Cool thing about America.

is that it's a nation of immigrants. It's like, you can come over here and just say, I'm American now. And everybody's like, all right. Try that in Poland. They're like, you're not Polish. Get the fuck out of here. There's a lot of countries like that

that are like, no, you're not one of us. But America's like, we don't have like a nationality. We're all kinds of shit. So anybody can come over here. And if you do it the right way, we get super happy. Yeah, yeah. I think it's great. And I'm really, really glad that people,

really welcomed you with the way the way they welcome me yeah but it's also the way you play you know there's there's a thing in pool um it gets when people play a lot and are people really into pool it's almost like that's the only thing that matters the only thing that matters is how good you play you know there was a do you ever read that book uh mcgurdy it was a robert burns book on a guy who lived during the depression who's a billiards hustler or travel around the country there was a scene in it where they were looking at the television and Nixon was on TV and he goes look at that guy president of the United States and he can't make a ball isn't that funny because you and I know what that means yeah like that in the pool world that really means something like if you you can't play at all like it's the fucking president you can't even play like it's real it's weird so if you come to America all that they care about is if you, since it's a melting pot already, and then it's like, all they care about is how good you play. And you play pretty fucking good. So far. People just take in.

So far, well, you're playing better now than ever before. And you're only going on top of my career right now. What are you, 25? 25. Yeah. Come on, man. You're not even in your prime. No, yeah. I think I'm not in my prime. I think, uh, you know, I'm getting better every year. I think so. You were, you, the match that you, the match that you, you, the match that you, you had with that Filipino gentleman before the match in the finals. What is that guy's name? Michael. That was Michael Bowen in quarterfinals.

Quarterfinals. Yeah. So in that match, I was watching some of those outs, and I was like, Jesus, like, it doesn't get better pool than that. Like, four-inch pockets, tight competition, a really good player, a lot of pressure. Everybody's there. Single elimination at that point. And you're just getting out, man.

Yeah, the pressure. Pressure is really high. I'm not going to lie, that sometimes even you can watch it on TV and you don't see the emotions. Oh, I get it, I'm sure. Your bridge is shaking sometimes, your back hand is shaking sometimes, and you just got to manage it. You just got to handle it. Well, you have such a process when you play. Like, when I watch you set up for a ball, it's always uniform. That's what I really enjoy watching when a guy is like every shot it's like

some people find it boring oh those people are assholes those people are assholes if they think your style is boring you say it's like you know robotic they're all pussies they can eat shit those guys all they are is jealous that's all that is everybody

wants to play like that everybody wants to play like that if they say because you play too good it's not fun to watch shut up I know you that guy whoever that guy is I don't want to listen to his opinion on anything I guarantee you he like shows it suck he could get in his car and listen to his music

it probably sucks probably how do you not like watching someone play perfect that's crazy well I'll have to agree it doesn't make any sense but then there are guys who play wild that it is fun to watch like Muhammad Sufi that guy he gives me anxiety yeah very unique

You know, side arm. He's, side arm, barely holding onto the queue, and he just fires balls in. He runs around the table. He's, like, one-strokes everything, and he's just getting out from everywhere. You're like, ah! Yeah, he's very, very talented. You have a few, a few guys like that. You know, Oliver Orthman?

Yes, I remember him. So he used to win, you know, world championships and multiple world titles. He was a Moscone Cup and won a pro league. Tony Drago? Yeah, Tony Drago was same. That guy was crazy. He was just running around the table. fireballs in, he couldn't miss.

Yeah, those guys are fun to watch. But what do we here for, right? You're here to win. You're here to run out. You're here to get perfect position. You're here to dominate this very difficult table. Yeah, everybody's different. Everybody has their own style.

But under extreme pressure, it's better to have your style. Or coping Chung style, coping-e style, like methodical backstroke. It always looks the same, smooth delivery. And, you know, I play half-ass pool, but I understand what's going on. It's such a mind-fuck. Oh, yeah. Every game is such a mind-fuck. Every time you're about to pull the trigger, you're like, now, no, one more stroke, now, no, one more backstroke.

Now, no, not yet. Okay, we're ready. I hope we're ready. Go. Well, you don't really have that because when we play, we have shock clock, yeah. Yeah, shot clock is brutal. Shot clock. Shot clock is a game changer for sure.

It's hell. because you've got to make the decision basically right out of the gate right out of the chair when you're in chair you already know what you're going to do because you only have 30 seconds and one extension per rec

which gives you an extra 30 seconds and sometimes the pressure is really high and when you get completely brain dead you don't want to be in that position I think the derby's a little bit better they give you a little 10 more seconds well a derby that rule is where as long as you stay down on the shot

the shot clock doesn't doesn't that's good too yeah the other thing that's brutal is the beeps oh yeah when it gets down to five seconds before you got to pull the and you pull the trigger on a nine ball with one second to go oh yeah I was watching I was like oh my god I would I would be having a heart attack right now I almost had most had masconi cup is definitely when it comes to pressure it's the highest pressure you can ever well everyone's screaming and cheering everyone's For people that haven't seen it before, most pool tournaments are very, very respectful. People will clap after you make an out or sometimes in the middle of a game.

Like if you make a really good shot, they'll clap. If you get great position, they'll clap. But as soon as you drop down to shoot the next ball, everybody gets quiet. Moscone Cup, those rules are off the table. Off the table. Sometimes they shark you. Oh, yeah. They would be super loud and you have a super tough nine ball and everybody would like, for example, you're playing UK.

and 95% of the crowd is Europeans, so everybody's cheering for Europe. Yeah. So let's say I'm on the tough nine ball and everybody's loud, and then everybody will go like, shh, sh, sh, sh, sh, sh, sh, sh. And everybody will go quiet just in the second. And it's really, really tough to pull the trigger in that situation. Yeah. So it's a tough environment to play in, but that's what makes this tournament special.

Well, it's fun to watch, though. Oh, yeah, for sure. I'm so glad that all tournaments aren't like that, though, where you encourage people to be assholes. Oh, yeah. It's kind of weird, though, that they've agreed to only be an asshole for one tournament. Because people yell out in the middle of, like, you stroking a ball. You see the crowd getting more engaged and more now.

Like, you watch the U.S. Open finals, it was loud. When I played Michael Bound on the quarterfinals, he was kind of like that because half of the crowd was Filipino. Well, not half, but there was a lot of guys that were loud. This episode is brought to you by the farmer's dog. I think we can all agree that eating highly processed food for every meal isn't optimal. So why is processed food the status quo for dog food? Because that's what Kibble is, an ultra-processed food. But a healthy alternative exists the farmer's dog.

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This ensures that you don't overfeed them, making weight management easy. Research shows that dogs kept at a healthy weight can live up to two and a half years longer. Head to thefarmer'sdog.com slash Rogan to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. This offer is for new customers only. Yeah, let's talk about that because one thing that happened is there's a rule where you're not allowed to soft break. But soft breaking is basically very subjective.

Like a referee can decide to call someone on it or not call someone on it. And you thought this guy was soft breaking. Yeah. So you said something and the Filipinos went crazy. Yeah, everybody went crazy. I had to delete my Facebook for a couple of days because it was just bothering me. I was getting notification every second. You know, crazy Filipino goes, yeah, you were a sharking hour player.

You did that. But, yeah, I thought the guy was soft breaking and the rule state that you got to make your best effort to make a forceful break. So that's really subjective, and it's up to the referee to make that call. I have a solution to that. And it makes it more interesting, too. Radar. Radar, yeah, speed gun. Yeah, it's an easy solution.

I agree. Easy solution, and it makes it interesting. It's a new element that you think about. Then you also have, for example, juniors or girls. Do you make the rules the same for them? No, it's a good. Well, they're not playing guys, right? Well, we have...

Well, yeah, but on W and Q2, it's an open tournament, for example. Oh, right, right, right. Ladies can join. Juniors can join. I see what you were talking about young kids. No, for young kids, you'd have to have an exception. Exactly. And for girls, you'd have to have an exception.

But you would just change it. Just like, you know, so whatever the speed is, like, what is, what's a good, what's a good break speed? 18. What do you think you break at? Like, Bustamante in his prime. What was he like 30 miles an hour? Well, back in the day it was different. Back in the day, everybody was breaking over 20, 23, 24, 25.

But Buzdemante had the craziest break all the time. Yeah, Bustamante. When he would let the cue go out of his fingers and then throw his whole body into it, his timing was crazy. You ever watched the Russian player? His name was, uh, you've jimmy. Any Stahlief? No. Oh, you gotta watch that stroke.

It was even crazier. Really? Oh, yeah. That's nuts. Oh, yeah. Crazy. Same thing. Same thing.

Yeah. He's up. Way up. Way up. Yeah. That's so hard to be accurate and do that. Oh, yeah. I don't know how they do it.

You have to have the most insane, smooth delivery. And again, what a mind fuck, because you're about to, you're trying to hit this one ball square on the face, and you're throwing all. All of your might into it. Yeah, yeah. So that's how Shane, Shane's breaking the same way. You know, his body moves first and then he delivers. I'd like to know how fast he breaks when he breaks, like, 10 ball.

Because when he 10 ball breaks, it's pretty crazy. He breaks pretty hard. You know, I like to break with softer speed and with more control, but he just wax him. So what do you think would be, like, a reasonable mile per hour that you would impose where you'd say anything slower than that is soft braking? Is it like 15 miles an hour? I think it has to be higher, maybe 18, and then will also push the players to practice. For example, you wouldn't want to break borderline 18 because it may be under.

So players will try to break harder, 19, closer to 19, maybe harder than 19. Well, they used to do that three-point rule where they would, that was very annoying. Do you think it was very annoying? Yes, it was very annoying. Because sometimes guys would break hard, but the referee didn't rack them that good. Right. And they made a ball, and then the opponent gets to shoot. I'm like, that's crazy.

That's, yeah, I mean, in that case, yes, I agree. But that's another simple solution. It's better than what we have now, I think. I think the radar is the way to go. Yeah, the radar is definitely the way to go. I mean, and also it's kind of cool, you know, when you get to... Yeah, and extra stats, you have... And some guys play, like, Shane, even in nine ball when he does the cut break, he breaks really hard.

Kachi, Kachi is the one that breaks the hardest. Well, he's a big fucking dude. Oh, yeah, he breaks the hardest. I don't know how he keeps the cue on the table, to be honest, with that speed. And it doesn't even look like he's trying that hard, you know, because he's a big dude. He's just... Last term, he was breaking open bridge, which is even crazier. Yeah.

People, that's one thing about pool, though. If you want to get spectators, you want hard breaks. Yeah. You know, like, people love it from, like, the color of money. When Tom Cruise breaks and Paul Newman goes, who's that kid with the sledgehammer break? It's a dumb American thing. But if you want to get, like, American people to tune in, you got a break. card. Yeah. Like, this is why Earl Strickland

still gets mad. You know? He gets mad at everything. I heard Mike Siegel talk about it too. He was like, why don't they just hit it straight on the one ball and hit it as hard as you can? Because it's no fun. You get zero control that way. It's no skill, really. I just think he hasn't had someone lay it out to him

like the way you just did with me. We explained it to me. This is the first time that I had anybody explained to me that particular break. I'm like, oh, and you did it dead on. And you knew that The cloth was a little worn because it's a year old cloth. So you're like, okay, because of that, I'm going to have to hit it here, and it'll go on the side. And you smashed it, and it went right in the side.

I was like, oh, shit. Like, it's not, it's very, it's not risking. You're not, like, gambling. The only thing you're gambling with is that the ball's going across the table. But it seems like you guys kind of have that mostly worked out, too. Well, that's the thing. Everybody on the tour is figuring out the break really fast. It doesn't really matter what you change in the format.

The players will figure it out. The fun thing to me about your life is that you're traveling all over the world playing, and then occasionally you have these marathon gambling sessions that they stream online. And I've got a good buddy of mine, Tommy, from Connecticut. Shout out to my boy, Tommy. And, you know, he and I will be fucking texting to each other for three days in a row why these matches are going on. And I get so juiced up for him. I get so excited about him.

But it's like that's the part of the game that has always been the most romantic, the gambling part of the game. And I'm glad that people aren't shying away from that because there was a long, for a long time, gambling was thought to be negative for professional pool. That's not the case anymore. Well, it could be. It could be, sure, because you're bringing in shady people. For sure. If you're gambling $100,000, where'd you get it? Where'd you get it?

You know, Bob the drug dealer came. over and you know he wants in he's staking me and I if I win I get 40% but in our case it's different yeah our matches that we make you know there's only a couple of them that we did we played twice with Shane and there's also a few one pocket matches we did but the biggest ones were with Shane and it's only a small group of people it's basically just you know a few guys my managers me and same same thing from Shane's side so everybody knows each other yeah for sure in your case but in the case of like high level gambling in pool oh yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of shady characters a lot of shady characters a lot how often do you gamble just in regular life playing pool

do you because that does anybody ask for like giant spots or anything like that well everybody's asking for ridiculous games all the time but uh i think my gambling game my gambling days are over and uh now i'm a tournament player really well you got too good yeah like i played you when you you were here like two years ago and uh i definitely play better now that i played two years ago but you play way better you play even better than you would we're playing then which is crazy but you were banking out and making shots i was like this is so humiliating it's so humbling yeah yeah i do play a lot better than i did uh two years ago you know which is hard to believe because you're the best player in the world and you're getting better that's that's one of the coolest things to me about

any game or any sport, anything, is that, and especially today, because there's so much data that's available, like, say if you're a young player and you're learning how to play, you can watch pool on your iPad until 3 o'clock in the morning. You watch matches and you learn. You learn how to play things. You learn, like, why did he do it that way? Like, oh, and then you rewind it, you go, oh, that none of that was available to like Mike Siegel back in the day or Nick Varner, those guys. Yeah, there's tons of videos on YouTube. There's so much. So much, so much information. Yeah, and you can also, I mean, you can also watch it on TV.

I think Metro. Metrum has shown all those tournaments, all of the majors on TV everywhere, except U.S., I think. Yeah, yeah. And so it's just like everything else, with the new generation, the level just gets higher and higher with everything. Unless there's physical limitations. And with pool, it doesn't seem like, it's not like, you know, running a four-minute mile or, you know, running the fastest 100 meter. We're all crooked. All of our backs are crooked.

Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, we're always bend over. It's always one-sided sport. Every one-sided sport is kind of like that, I think. Archery is like that. Archery, golf, shooting. Yeah. Yeah, your back must be fucked up.

I know your neck was fucked up. We brought you to waste too well last time you were here. Yeah, yeah, it did help. It did help for like six to eight months, I think, and then. And now it's fucking with you again? No, now I actually found the way, you know, I have my pre-match routine. I stretch every single day. I do work a lot with, like, rubber bands, resistant bands.

What do you do with them? Basically, you know, I work on my upper back. Oh, so like certain workouts? Certain workouts that will take some pressure off my neck because my neck is where I really feel it, like my upper back, shoulder blades. Probably have a heavy head. That's what it is.

Yeah, maybe. But I did all the MRIs and I did have like a bulgin disc, C4, C5. Yeah. That started to progress and was getting worse. I went to Russia for that I think I was reaching out to you at the time and I found the guy that helped me a lot with the like routines that we built

and since then knock on wood everything was good oh nice did you ever get one of those things that I was talking about those decompression things where you put your head in a harness and you like pull on the door and you set it on your door and you can like hang by it a little bit

those are nice yeah and also how do you call that inversion table? Yeah in version table Inversely, I blood that as well. Those are great, too. Yeah. Everybody should be doing that. Everybody should be decompressing.

Because you get to a certain age, and everybody's back is just like you're carrying all this weight, your whole life, and your back just get smushed. And your posture starts to suck, and then you start to get these weird pains and decompression. And if you could do it and just be real vigilant with it, you can stop a lot of problems dead in their tracks. For sure, and I felt it, you know, I haven't really paid attention to, like, stretch, as much as I did before this year and I can you know I can play a lot longer even though I'm not younger you know I was practicing you're a little baby shut up I know but I was I was for example 16 18 I was practicing a lot more a lot more than I did now yeah and uh I never really had any issues then 22 I'm practicing the same but I always leave the pool hall with some type of pain

and I don't want to go practice the next day because of that right do you um The problem is it's hard to get access to a cold plunge when you're on the road. Yeah, it's really difficult. I do have the cold plunge at home, sauna, and all the good stuff. Cold plunge is the thing, man. It just alleviates so much inflammation, especially if you can do it first thing in the morning. If you could force yourself to do it first thing in the morning, it is the way to go, man. It sucks every day.

But if you just do it, you get out of that. You just like, oh, I just feel loose and free. Yeah. And as long as you don't do it within like two hours of you playing, you have to wait like probably two hours for your body to like fully warm back up again because if you are cold, it will kind of mess with your... Right. With the muscle screen, it will be too tight.

Yeah. I was telling you the worst thing ever for pool is lifting weights. There's nothing worse. I found it myself. It's terrible. For sure. You know Willie Hoppe, the old school billiard player? Never heard of him?

Willie Hoppy, no. Never heard of him? You know what a Hoppy cue is? Hoppicking out No, okay Hoppy butt is like a type of butt that doesn't have

a rubber bumper on the bottom of it it's just flat and for whatever reason Willie Hoppe used to prefer that kind I think it's named after him

for some reason anyway he was a famous billiards player like the turn of the century and the turn of the other one like the early 1900s

and he wouldn't even drive a car he refused to do anything with his arms he wouldn't drive a car because it would mess up his pool game Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, some players are super superstitious about the stuff, you know.

Cars back then, though, didn't have power steering. So you have to think it's probably really difficult to steer them. See if you can find a photo of Willie Hoppy. He had the weirdest sidearm, too. Yeah? Totally sidearm. Keith, Keith McCready. Exactly.

It's like these guys start playing when they're five years old, and they can't really reach the table correctly. That's exactly the reason why, for example, when I started, I played the Russian Pyramid in the beginning. and I was always sidearm because you know I wasn't tall enough they sent me to the pool table yeah look at them isn't that crazy sidearm like that's nuts

just like Mohammed Sufi yeah that's him when he was an old man yeah just like Sufi weird right yeah it's crazy like if you ever saw someone play like that I'd be like look at this lemon yeah you would want to play that guy if you

yeah over the ball but meanwhile if as long as he figured out how to do it consistently that's the thing in pool you know there's so many different variations of the stands stroke that you can overcome everything if you practice just you know hundreds of hours so it wouldn't really matter you know you can play by the book but in the end all that matters is how much time do you spend at the table the rivalries the marching bands the upsets saturdays just got way more fun college football is back think you know the game put your

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Boyd in Ontario. Bonus bets expires seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.com slash audio. Like Shane. Yeah, exactly. Like when Shane, he's arguably the greatest of all time. It's in the conversation for the greatest of all time.

Five-time U.S. Open player hits the ball in a way that everybody tells you don't ever do it that way. Yeah, exactly. He stops at the cue ball. Instead of following through and letting the cue ball, like, slide through, he stops at the cue ball. He's very unique. Same as Filipinos, you know, Filipino players, they have the unique style of play. They're super fluent.

They're, like, dancing around the table. But nobody plays like that. Nobody else plays like that. Yeah, it's interesting. It's, again, as long as it's repeatable. Yeah. It's like, there's a lot of things like that. If it's repeatable, if you can do it over and over and over,

And it does, there are no rules. No, I mean, they are written in the book. But how could you say that like Shane Van Boating is doing it wrong? Exactly. It doesn't make any sense. Exactly. He doesn't. I mean, he's probably won more tournaments than anybody ever, right?

Who's one of the most tournaments of all time? I mean, that's a good question. We were just talking about it this morning, I think. Shane is definitely one of, it might be Shane. It might be Shane. Shane might be the greatest of all time right now. Yeah. I mean, that's what Jeremy Jones says is the greatest of all time.

Yeah. That's his pick. It's, uh, what's crazy with him, too, is the, the deaf aspect that he shuts his hearing aids off when he plays. That must be amazing. That should be illegal, by the way. I mean, it should be. Really? I mean, that's, listen, man, life gives you lemons.

Yeah, I know. I know. The dude was born deaf. That's fucked up. It is. It is. But it's, uh... That's the advantage you get, so you can shut them bitches off.

I mean, yeah, I guess Come on, you can't check and see if he has it on Like, Shane, Shane I mean, do you think we're not checking? We are checking. Are you checking? Of course. Do you say things too?

Motherfiger has it off all the time. How do you know when he has it off? Well, because just before his match, he goes to his phone and puts it all the way down. Oh, so his phone, it's Bluetooth. So hearing aid is Bluetooth. Oh, yeah, he can control by his phone. Oh, that seems dirty.

Because you're not allowed to wear like noise. canceling earbuds. No, you're not. Errol. Earl always wants that, but yeah, they're not allowing him. Yeah, I remember when Earl used to wear like gun sight glasses. He used to wear glasses like the kind you wear at the range. Yeah. And then he, he was wearing headphones for a while, so they told him not to, like a pilot. Yeah, like complete noise canceling headphones. Once it looked like they weigh five pounds. Yeah. And then he had, he's got weights that he wears around his waist sometimes he puts definitely a character he puts weights on his elbow he puts tape around his fingertips and then he makes his cue as fat as my forearm with like whatever kind of

tape he's using on it yeah he runs five miles every day does he hundreds of squads oh yeah he's fit well i mean he's not he doesn't look very fit but he works out every day or does something he's is he the oldest guy that's still super competitive like how was ralph sukay ralph suk is still pretty competitive no earl is older than is he yeah right so i think ralph suk is actually like my age yeah and earl is like in the 60s so he's probably the oldest guy that's like playing competitively and winning yeah for sure yeah it's a fucking game for young people son you gotta have them young eyes cut that ball in for sure the eyes is everything yeah um how many guys do you know that got lasic surgery a few a few a lot of players wear contacts when they play uh but lacy lacic has been the game changer for them for sure

now are these young players that are coming up are these guys embracing like a healthier lifestyle because one of the things about pool is like it's always been connected at least when i was young it was always connected to especially the gambling connected to connected to to a lot of partying, a lot of amphetamines, cocaine, and then, you know, just... Well, it's just changing. It used to be just a game played at the bar. Now it's a sport. You know, I think now in the U.S., everybody's taking the European approach, more methodical, more disciplined, and they treat it as a sport. Right. Especially the younger generation. You know, they see who is more successful on the tour.

And if you look at top 10 right now, every one of us, we try our best at everything, you know, when comes to food, pre-match routines, how we practice, how we treat a pool as a sport. So I think, yes, definitely it's changing. And that's why the pool is in a different place where it was. Well, it's only because of the promotions and they deserve everything. And then, of course, the players, but without the promotions, like putting these events on and making them a big. deal. Oh, for sure. They wouldn't get all over YouTube.

It wouldn't get all over these social media sites. But what pool really needs is something. Like, they had the hustler in the 1960s made pool explode, and then they had the color of money in the 1980s made pool explode. They need something like that, like some thing. Two days ago, trailer on Netflix, you haven't seen it? No. Netflix made a documentary about Eddie and Barry Hearn.

I think it's about their family and their business. And I think two or three episodes are about pool. Oh, well, that's good. That'll help. Yeah, that's really good. That'll help. Most of it is about box, I think, boxing, darts, and how they started the company. But pool is big part of the world.

Oh, they do darts, too? Darts, snooker, fishing, I think. Fishing? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Like fishing tournaments? Like that kind of shit?

Fisher mania, I think that's what's called. Fishermania? It's like bass tournaments or something like that? I have no idea how it works. I know Shane's a big fisherman, right? Oh, yeah. He goes lake trout fishing. Ice fishing is his thing.

Yeah, that's that South Dakota mentality. It's the most boring thing I think you can do. It's not that bad. It's all the day long. It's actually kind of fun. Freeze your ass off. I did it a couple years ago. I caught a trout.

I was pretty jazzed up. Yeah, if you catch something, then yeah, for sure. It's pretty cool. You know, like you're standing on ice, so you're kind of freaked out. You're standing on ice, and then you use a drill to drill through the ice. and then you know exactly how much is separating you from drowning. So you only need a few inches, but when I was doing it, it was about seven, eight inches of ice. So what do you do?

Like you put a tent around you? Yeah, most of the times that's what guys do. They put some kind of a tent around them, and then they get like a drill. Yeah, yeah. They go right into the ground, right through the ice, rather. And then you have like a little net where you scoop out new ice that forms, and you just drop your line right down there in the hole. That sounds real fun.

It's exciting. It's exciting when you catch one. Yeah. I did fish a couple times in my life, but nothing, nothing really exciting for me. The problem when you can play really good pool is really good pool is about as fun as anything. Like really good, which is, I've always said that pool is like an art form that only the people that practice it can appreciate. When you watch someone who plays really good, like, wow. Oh, that's beautiful.

Like, that was beautiful. But to an average person, like, oh, he just made a bunch of easy shots. Exactly, exactly. You can't really see, you know, the beauty of fundamentals. Exactly. Yeah. Positional play, you know. At least with, if you're explaining jujitsu to someone,

at least people kind of get it. Oh, he's going to break his arm. Like, oh, he's choking him. Oh, he's got his neck. But when you, when you watch someone play pool and you don't understand how difficult that three rail position was to get perfect on the four ball.

You're like, oh my God, that was the way. Or when they say, you know, he's in jail, he's hooked, it just doesn't have a shot, you know, just people, regular people that probably don't understand. They don't get it. They don't get it. And they never will. It's just like you're going to have to play it

to understand how hard it is what that person did. The casual person doesn't understand, unfortunately. So what we need is more people playing. If more people play, then more people would watch people playing. I think more people start playing. I think the game grew up quite a bunch the last couple of years. Well, I know that the top golf people are going to do something like that for pool.

That might be the thing. You know those top golf guys? Do you know what top golf is? Yeah. Yeah. So top golf, you know, where they have this thing where you just whack the balls out into the – well, they're going to set something like that up for pool where they have, you know, some sort of a business. where you go in and play pool and it's more attractive to young people.

I don't know exactly what their model is because it's still going to be pool. I don't think it's going to be a bunch of people just breaking the balls. Because that's what they're doing when they're doing top golf they're just driving the ball, right? I don't know exactly what their idea is,

but the same guys, they realize like a lot of people play pool, a lot of people play pool in bars, and if we had a really attractive place for people to play. And it's probably correct. It's probably an untapped business. Because people are always looking for something fun to do on date nights.

Yeah, so what they do in China, for example, or somewhere, I've seen it in Asia. They put, like, a projector above the table, and it gives you, like, all kinds of different games and interactions while you're playing. What was it saying? The venue, which is being backed by investors, including U.S.-based venture capital firm, Sharp Alpha Advisors, and the Daily Mail Investment Arm DMG Ventures, uses pool tables, balls, and cues from the traditional game, but adds tracking technology and video projections to add. Add bonus targets and obstacles in an attempt to appeal to larger groups. Bonus targets and obstacles.

Huh. Alongside its own venues and those operated by franchise partners, it's called poolhouse. Pool house plans to sell its equipment to pubs, bars, and other venues that want to update their existing pool tables. Hopefully they can create a speed gun, too. Yeah. So it says Steve, I don't know how to say his name, Jalifi, Jalifi said, more people play top golf than our traditional golf courses in the U.S. and we aim to make an even greater impact on the world of pool. We have a strong track record. This project has been our most

challenging endeavor yet. Hmm. That's exciting. Maybe that'll do it. I'd never even heard of it. Well, if you get a bunch of guys that are already really successful at doing that with, the thing about golf, though, is like, whacking a golf ball is really fun. Yeah. You know, it's, and then if you have like a big open pit where you can just whack a golf ball you got like a hundred yards you can see how far people can whack a golf ball and then you got a net at the end of it especially if you get straight it's the most exciting thing a lot of people are going to do that pool is like you don't know how to make a bridge you're holding your hand funny and it's like moving weird your arm and i wonder how many people are going to get frustrated i wonder if it's the same actually it's probably yeah because

I suck at driving a golf ball you know I don't know I'm not good at I've done it I've played top golf a couple of times I've gone to a driving range once it was fun I'm not good at it but like fucking Jamie over here that dude's out in the garage every day

whacking balls every time I come here he's out there whacking balls yeah and so you realize like there really is like there's a lot of technique just to the drive it's very similar probably to a break shot in that regard yeah for sure same absolutely the same i wonder if they can make something like that

really marketable for pool that might be it it has to be some some time of interaction because i think it would be kind of boring yeah to just you know whack balls pool balls the other thing that might make pool really big is big money like if the Saudis get involved and they get crazy and they start saying okay this this tournament's for three million dollars well we have We have now. The world championships is the biggest tournament we have on tours in Saudi. Right. What's the first place?

250,000. Pretty good. 25 million would be better. Yeah, for sure. Imagine that. For sure. So those guys have so much money. They could spend $25 million and it'd be like nothing.

They probably spent more than that on production. I don't know. I don't know if they spent more in production. They throw so much money around in boxing. It's kind of bananas. Boxing, for sure, for sure. And that's where Matron is really. helping because they have

those deals for multi-sports. They make a deal for boxing and that involves snooker and pool. Right. So they have the snooker tournament in Saudi. They have the boxing event going on and pool. Yeah, you got to get that oil money involved, son. Those dudes throw some money around. Because it's like, when people talk about

the richest people in the world, they're like, really? Because their money isn't public. Like, they don't have to disclose how much money they make. They're kings. Okay? Like, they're probably laugh. Like, oh, silly Elon thinks he's number one, you know, was paltry $400 billion, you know, he's basically a pauper. Yeah. To those people. So, like, they've, they've thrown an insane

amount of money into boxing. I think it hasn't been confirmed, so I need to know whether this is true or not. But I think Ussick made a hundred, more than $100 million in his last defense against Daniel Dubois and I think Dubois made in the 70s he made somewhere around 70 I think they said Usik made like 130 something

which is crazy 130 million for a fight that's crazy bananas what do you think if pool goes that route just one-on-one matches that would be exciting if it's for big big big big big money like that I mean if you ever saw a pool mat

you imagine shooting a nine ball hill hill for a hundred million No, I can't. Could you imagine? I was shooting the novel for 250,000 a year. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

That was crazy. What was that like? I mean, it was a crazy match against Kachie. We played a world championships finals. He was on the Hill first. Yeah, it was Hill Hill Hill. Hill, he scratches. I get ball in hand.

Shaking like a leaf. Were you? Oh, yeah. It was incredible. I mean, that's the biggest turn we ever had. Right. biggest tournament I've ever had in my career you know we only have so many tournaments that pay those kind of money and it's really difficult not to think about it when you're playing yeah and yeah that's definitely the highlight of my career you know making that tough eight ball I mean it wasn't tough but the positional positional play was tough because I had to go up and down with the keyball and I landed right where I wanted to be so I was straight in the nine ball no pressure at all that's a good one for people to watch it like what is this all about Watch that one.

Watch that one and know that they're playing for $250,000. Yeah. I mean, second place paid $100,000, so it was a hundred and a $150,000 difference. That's a lot. It is a lot for one rack, a full. And for one nine ball. Yeah. That's the beautiful thing about nine ball.

You could run everything and then chunk that nine. Yeah, and game over. It's such a mental game. It's a game of millimeters, really, you know, single roll this way. and you're hooked. Yeah. Or you're in the right side of the ball, wrong side of the ball. I was listening to John Schmidt, do commentary once,

and he was saying how crazy it is, if you really think about it. Every other sport that involves a ball, it's like something is hitting the ball. It's like you have a bat hitting the ball, or it's like no other sport has a ball hitting a ball. And then trying to be like really accurate over distance. And then making that ball move around and get perfect for the next ball. like even golf you're hitting a ball it's very difficult but you're hitting a ball you're not hitting a ball with a ball that's it's a whole other element so you think full is the most difficult sport in that regard it might be snooker excuse me snooker snooker is boring oh I don't

think it's boring I think when you get a guy who's really good who plays you know I think it's really difficult when it comes to, like, how difficult is it to execute the shot because the balls are smaller. The cues are thinner. The ball, the pockets are tiny. Yeah. The table is bigger, too. If you watch Ronnie Sullivan play, you can't think that that's boring. Of course. I mean, of course, you have players, like Roni. I mean, you can never say that it's boring. Yeah. But I think the game itself, it's just too much safety, is nothing shots here and there. Yeah, but it's because it's so hard. and because it's so big, it's a 12-foot fucking table,

which is crazy. And the pockets are tiny and the balls are tiny. It's a really hard game. But when you watch a guy like Ronnie and he doesn't miss, like 30, 40 shots in a row, you're like, this is crazy. What's really crazy about Snooker is there's only four or five countries that really play that game, but it's a lot bigger than pull. Really?

Pull is a lot more international. If you look at the majors that Matrim have, look at the last 64, last 32. You will have, you know, 20 different countries represented. So that's interesting that Snooker's bigger. Like, how much do they make? What's like a, I know they were making like gigantic money in, in the UK. Is that still happening or has it died down a little? Well, that most of the majority of the tournaments are in the UK, I think. There's a lot of them happening now in China as well. But I think really Scotland, Ireland, Wales, UK, China,

that's about it and a few European players and they make I would say the top top guys they make over two three million a year do you remember the scandal

there was a scandal with one of the players a few years back where they got him on hidden camera saying that he'd be willing to dump a match oh yeah

there was a lot of Chinese guys that got banned for it too oh really for dumping a match that's the problem with gambling yeah right when gambling gets involved and you realize like if you get your friends to bet on the other guy

that's the problem with uh i guess getting the bookies to be involved in tournaments as well because when the prize money are not big you will have players yeah thinking you know winning the tournament is nice but i don't have to win that i can just lose my round one go through the luther's side and take a free shot in those yeah thousand real fast yeah that's unfortunate But is that part of the thing of not having the kind of money that golf has? Because I doubt that people that play golf are dumping on purpose. Because there's so much money on the line.

Yeah. They don't have to. Yeah, they don't have to. But the difference between, like, winning and losing is so huge. And then you can gamble on it. And then you have friends. And you tell your friends, like, listen, bet on him. Yeah.

And I'm going to make sure I lose. It's like, it's too easy to make money that. way. Yeah, but also, I'm pretty sure they're always investigating. Every big bet is investigated, I'm pretty sure. I'm sure. But you don't have to do big bets. No, you don't have to. Could be multiple. And you can have some offshore accounts. Yeah, it could be. Especially if you do it online, you use a VPN. I'm gambling from Vietnam, you know. Yeah. Yeah, you can find ways, I'm sure. But yeah, I mean, it's the problem. Yeah. Shady businesses, man. Yeah. But that's also kind of the fun part of pool, too, is that these places are kind of shady.

Like, they're, they're like the outcasts of society. You know, if you go and you watch, like, the finals of the Florida open and look in the crowd, there's a lot of outcasts in there, a lot of Android phones. Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot of outcasts. It's a lot of people that have spent a giant chunk of their life in pool rooms. And the thing about pool is, if you really get into it, You're playing at eight hours a day. Yeah.

You have to. Yeah. If you want to get good at it, you have to. It's the only way. Yeah. And it makes a giant difference. And a lot of people fall in love with a game really fast. And if you do, then you don't want to quit.

Yeah. You just hit balls for hours and hours and hours. I was playing my friend Jake the other day, and I said, to get really good a pool, you kind of have to be a piece of shit. Because this is why. This is why you don't have to. I mean, obviously you're not. you know and you're lucky that your wife plays pool which is huge as well oh yeah because if she

didn't like you know where to find me because i'm going to be playing sorry right like you're going to ignore most of your responsibilities but it's also tough it's really good at pool it's really tough oh yeah personal life especially with the schedule that we have now like first half of the year was okay but now it's just back to back like even after this tournament i have texas open starting on wednesday from that and go to china Then I go to Vietnam for three weeks. From there, I go to Philippines for two weeks. Do you think the people in the Philippines are going to be mad at you still when you get there?

Oh, for sure, for sure. Reyes Cup, that's going to be another one. Oh, no. Reyes Cup is now the rest of the world against Team Asia. That's happening in Manila. So they already get all the comments. All the comments if you see like, yeah, wait until you come to Manila. We're going to welcome you with open arms.

Oh, no. Yeah. I'm going to get it, but that's going to be fun, I'm sure. yeah hopefully it doesn't someone doesn't get crazy but yeah that that schedule's nuts yeah so it's really tough to balance you know pull personal life family family it's almost impossible if you have kids you have to take them to softball games and stuff like that's why i said you want to be really good at pool you have to be a piece of shit well hopefully i don't have to you don't i mean listen obviously there's examples of people that keep it together that are really good

good that still have a family and but and you know spend time with their family spend time with their kids but you're going to have to manage your time because you're going to have to you have to get those hours in if you're not playing like legitimately realistically if you want to be a top flight world class player what is the minimum amount of hours you think you have to play every day I think somebody said that you have to spend 10,000 hours to get good at anything but I think in pull it probably is more yeah I think it's probably little more because it's it's really complex yeah because if you're talking about like top top professional player it's not just practicing you know you in you will have to start traveling and

playing tournaments you will have to start playing and sparing with somebody sparring yeah and then you have to gain experience from those tournaments it's going to take a lot of time yeah and but i guess it's like anything that's worth doing you know if you want to get good that's one of the reasons why it's so fun is because you know how hard it is to do yeah if it was easy to master i think people probably pick it up and then they'd eventually quit but the problem the thing about pool is it take a week off and then play again and your arm's like what do we do here like it seems all screwy doesn't want to listen for like first hour or so and then you finally get back in the groove again, it's because it's so difficult that makes it so attractive.

That's why people get stuck playing at 8, 10 hours a day. If it was easier to play, you wouldn't play it as much. Right, right. And I mean, for me, the big thing is I just always have to do something. I have to always hit balls because there are so many good players now, so many good players. And if I just stop for a moment or if I focus on something else for, I don't know, short period of time, even. They'll just catch me. Isn't that nuts? It is. It's driving me crazy, but I just can't stop. I just can't stop. How does it drive you crazy? Do you wake up in the morning and feel like people nipping at your heels? Well, like, for example, now I know that YAP, for example, OJus Yap. He won the UK Open. Florida Open and the U.S. Open. He won the U.S. Open. He won

the three out of the last four big tournaments we've had. Which is crazy. Yeah, which is, it's really, really tough to be dominant in our sport. Almost impossible. But he's just proving that it is possible. And he was on the losing end of the match that I think I've probably watched the most

over the last year. And if you Google it, you can find it on YouTube, just Google 9-ball perfection. And it's Ko-Ping Chung, who's one of my favorite players outside of you, of course, to watch. That guy is so smooth.

There's something about those guys from Taiwan. I don't know what their methodology is in their training, but they have this, like, smooth kind of effortless stroke as, like, hypnotizing to watch. And that dude never missed a single ball in an 11-match defeat. He beat him by 11 to nothing, never missed a ball, pocketed every shot he aimed at, and never gave him a shot other than the. opening shot. He had one shot at the beginning of the match, a long-ass two ball. He didn't make it, and then he was fucked. Which is crazy. And that's, yeah, that's the guy who just won the last

three tournaments, which is so nuts about this sport, is that if the guy's winning and it's winner break, you might not ever play. For sure, you never know. Like, look at today you and me. There's like five or six games where I'm just like standing there. I'm just waiting for you to miss. You're not missing, and so I don't play. You're not. missing and i don't play you know like but at a world class level when you're doing that in the u.s open and it's on tv and people are cheering every time you pocket a nine ball that's bananas yeah that's that's uh rarely happens yeah it was it was a very very special moment i think because the video went viral everywhere that dude got in the zone and if you can appreciate the zone you got to watch

that video even if you only played pool casually yeah shot the other guy missed yeah this is it This is yap, and he, boy, he chunked it too. Yeah, he fucked it up. But when you watch this guy, this guy, Coping Chung, who weighs 100 pounds. This is not an easy opening shot either. No, it's got three-ball combination rail first. It's crazy. But then from this out, he just never misses.

And you watch this guy? Like, watch how fucking smooth this character is. And again, the dude weighs 100 pounds, soaking wet. the cue is half his body weight and he just kind of like gently hits everything just so smooth and effortless I remember this match

because I was waiting for for this match in the finals I was watching it in the in the steakhouse and it was pretty painful for me to watch it was it well I mean you don't you don't want to have somebody just not make a single mistake

and play you in the finals you know It's just hurting your confidence a little bit And the reality is you would think Well this guy's gonna win everything from here on out But no That's what's so crazy about this sport As good as this guy is And as competitive is he

Look how he hit that with Follow Yeah that's crazy To get out for the two in the corner That's masterful shit That was really dangerous to play the shot I have no idea why would you even play it Well he's got ice water in his veins man I'm telling you that we were talking about this before

But there's a match from 2018 where he plays Shane Van Boning at the Derby. And it's, Shane's on the hill. It's 10 to 6. And you think, oh, Shane's going to win this. And he runs five games and out on them. And they're crazy outs. Like, he starts with this bananas cut shot on the four ball to get three rail position.

And you're like, what is he doing here? Like, the commentators don't even know what he's doing. Is he ducking? And he fires it in. You're like, no way. Like, that was John Schmidt was doing commentary for it. I'm a big fan of Co-Brothers. You know, they're genuine good people, and they're putting a lot of work,

and it's just imaging to watch them play as well. They play so good. They play so good. And it's also interesting to me that these guys still play with those solid wood shafts. Like, we were talking about that earlier. It's like new technology has gotten into the game, and a lot of players like yourself play with carbon fiber. But it's interesting that a lot of these guys from Taiwan in particular,

they still go with those wooden chaffs. Yeah, yeah, well, I don't know. I know that the industry went to carbon fibers maybe four or five years ago and maybe some companies were kind of like pushing the players, you know, you kind of have to make a switch. Right, right, right, right. But I don't think that's the case now

because now, for example, I find that maybe advantageous to play with the wooden shaft when you're playing in like a sticky sticky pool room in Asia where the humidity level is super high. Why not? Just because, I don't know, you can move the cue ball around easier, or at least I found it easier. Easier, interesting. Why easier? Because I've heard

the opposite. I've heard it's carbon moves the ball easier. Not in the really sticky condition. Hmm. I think when we play, for example, Metrum tournaments, everything is brand new cloth, brand new rails, brand new balls, everything slick, perfect conditions, then I think carbon fiber is perfect. But I think that's the reason why the agents prefer wood as well, because the humidity level is just over top.

It's really, really bouncy, and that's what they used to play back in the day, I guess, and that's what they referred to this day. It's such a mind-fuck, though, isn't it? Because it's all really what you have confidence with. Obviously, anybody can play really good with carbon fiber, or anybody, rather, who can play really good with carbon fiber, could play really good with wood. It's just get it into your head, what this cue does,

the way it feels, the kind of deflection it has. It's a lot of things. You put it in the brain computer after X amount of months of playing with that cue, and you know what it does. Yeah, I've been experimenting with cues, maybe not as much as you did, but I've started testing cues for the company

that I'm working with right now, Triple 60. We've been doing testing for three years, So I know everything about, like, the foams, the wall thickness, with the material of the feral, the hardness of your tip, the weight, the balance. So there's so many different things that will change the weight, the shaft plays. And then there's also a butt. There's so many different things. It's like a magic wand.

Yeah. You have to try so many things before you actually understand what you like and what you're looking for. And it's not a easy process, I would say. I remember I was going on one of my rucking hikes where I put a weighted vests on and I go for a walk with the dog and you and I were on the phone and this is how I remember this because I was walking through this this wooded area and you were telling me that the difference between your old cue and your new cue you said there's a difference of about 5%. And I was like 5%. Like how do you know it's 5%? You're like, all the balls that I've pocketed when I think about what it does and what it doesn't do I think my game is about 5% off

I'm like that I think I think it actually well with the new queue I was winning a lot more so I used to I used to put it But this is like right when you first changed Yeah yeah yeah well since then Since then I was winning Yeah so I guess I guess it was the true Well it's you made it to your specifications

Yeah that's the thing about being it Longer shot because I have longer arms Yeah long fingers I do prefer a longer taper, which doesn't really exist on the market, so I created the shaft with a longer taper, especially for shots like off the rail. Let's say one, the cue ball is one diamond distance off the rail. That's where you feel that change in the taper thickness.

We have the straight taper in our shaft. What is the difference in the field? What do you feel differently? For example, the pro taper or the conical taper, you can feel the change of the thickness, the closer you go to the pin We don't have that Our shaft is straight

And so that way It doesn't give additional resistance As the shot gets further Like as your bridge gets longer Right You just don't feel the change in thickness It's mind fucking game Yeah

It is It is And then you can go to deflection The deflection is another thing It's There's so much signs behind that I don't I don't even know where to start Well deflection is interesting

too, because some people use it to their advantage certain deflection, like Coe, because his cue has a lot of defleck. Didn't you say you hit some balls with it? Yeah, yeah. Basically, you have to aim to miss the ball to make the ball. That's make any sense. I don't know why would players prefer that, but a lot of players do. I think it just gets it in their head

how to play, and then they've been playing that way for so long that it's just automatic. Like if they hit a ball with heavy left-end English, they know it's going to go off to the right. So they hit it more full with heavy left-end English because they know by the time the Q-L gets there, so they have it in their head. Right. You know, it's just like a little computer in your brain.

It's like, okay, this distance, I got to aim here. This distance is I'm going to aim here. Well, in my case, I also have that. Right. We also have little different. But when it's just too much, it gets really, really difficult, especially, like I said, when we play on-shot clock, pressure out there, and you have to pull one crazy shot, and that's hill-hill, hill. So the argument against that would be the difference with wood is, though, you get a superior feel. You do get a weird difference in the feedback of the queue, and some people get very accustomed to that wood feedback.

And they describe a carbon feedback as more dull. Yeah, it is. Like you don't get the same sensations. You almost don't get no feedback. So I think those guys, the feedback in their hand is a part of the equation in their mind of where that ball's going to go. So when you say feedback, is it like a vibration that you get in your hand by the time you hit the ball? It's just a different feel. Like they all have a different feel, right?

Like we were talking about Southwest, which are some of my favorite cues of all time. they have a solid butt they're not cord right and so there's they're usually generally a little heavier unless they're maple sometimes they'll get lower but you very rarely see like an 18 ounce southwest you see a lot of 20 ounce southwest because you know they're ebony or cocoa or something that's really heavy but they have a very specific thunk to them yeah sound this is like a feel and you don't get that feel with carbon you get a different feel so if you can get used to that different feel so if you can get used to that feel it is it is like there's something to it you definitely the ball moves less off the line also i mean like i said there's so many different environments we play in for example we play in china in a pool

hole with a dirty cloth and it's super muggy and the rails are playing super spongy and bouncy you would prefer one cue compared to the other one. And you go to, I don't know, Saudi Arabia where it's super dry and it's perfect conditions, everything's slick and brand new. I prefer carbon fiber in that case. So maybe, I don't know, five years, ten years from now, we will have different cues for different shots. Right, like a golf player does.

Could be the case. And some players already do that. They use some cues, for example, when they stay close to the vertical center of the cue wall, they use one cue, and when they use side spins, they use the other cue. Really? Yeah, some players do it. Who's doing that? Mario He was doing that. Really?

Yeah. He brought two different cues. Yeah, to Saudi Arabia last year. I think some other players do that. For example, what I do, I put the extension on the back of my cue for some shots. I play without the extensions for certain other strats. How much is your extension way? It's super light, like 1.5.

So that gets you up to, like, what, 195 as opposed to 18? Is that what you play with 18? I play with 19. You play with 19 ounce? 19, yeah. Oh, so it gets you like to 20 and a half? 20 and a half. So do you like the additional weight for like a shot where you have to really stay down?

I just use it for like balance purposes for longer shots. For example, when like I said, I'm one diamond off the rail and I have a long shot where I want to have like a long fall. through I just simply don't have enough enough of my cue on the back got it so I add an extra length but you know it's uh lonely at the top buddy it is there's only a few guys that you could have those kind of matches with now yeah well next one will be probably Josh Filler you think so we're trying we're trying to make it happen is he interested I think he was uh but he is uh not really responding to messages really well lately i think he was interested so he had a guy who was willing to back him for a lot of money and uh they they said well we have to do it in this place with this rules

this is how it needs to be done where was that where they wanted to do it in germany no no they wanted to play it in Vegas oh like to say it's a neutral territory Vegas is good where would you go to griff's uh yeah i think they wanted to do it in griffs great place good place yeah Oh, you don't like it? I mean, they wanted to, like, high roll me. They said, we'll play in Vegas. You got about, like, half a million. And something like that.

But what I really wanted to do is basically what we did with Shane, you know, like a $50,000 bet. Play race to $120. Half a million is a lot. And what I really offered him was to play multiple disciplines. We play like an all-around. We play eight ball, nine ball, ten ball. Or was it, nine ball, ten ball, one pocket in banks. That's what I offered him.

Oh, what have you, a draw? In case of a draw, we play another set. But you know what I'm saying? If you have four games, you have to play three games. I mean, I'm not playing to lose, so... The more, the better. What would you race to at each game? I mean, it would have to be something we can fit within eight to ten hours,

so maybe race to... 30 in 10 ball, race to 30 and 9 ball, race to 10 in one pocket, and race to 10 in banks. I think it's a good format. People will like to watch that, I'm sure. Yeah. And it's good for the game. It's good for our sport. It's tough to get people casuals to watch regular pool.

Getting them to watch One Pocket, they'd rather jump in front of a bus. I agree. Well, you don't like the One Pocket. You don't like it. I watch it every on then. Hardcore fans like it for sure. Yeah. Once was the last one I watched, Justin Bergman.

played someone for a lot of money. Yeah, he played the guy, what's his name? Little John. And he was giving him a crazy spot, right? Yeah, and he won't. Oh, no, he won. Justin won. Yeah, but it was close.

It was really close, yeah. Everybody liked the other guy. It was a nutty spot. I forget what the spot was. 116, because I gave that guy 126. Oh, did you? Yeah, we actually played not too long ago in New Orleans. How'd that go?

I won. Nice. Congratulations. Do you like one pocket, would you prefer, or do you just play it because people won't gamble it? I think I like it because it's a good gambling game. I don't like the game itself. I think the new modifications they make in the game where you have to re-spot the balls, for example, if you get more than four balls past the kitchen, the fifth ball gets re-spotted back to the spot.

So it makes the game more alive, more dynamic. So you don't get those wedges where 50 balls go up, take. and people just play nothing shots for hours. Right. So it's more dynamic. And also Derby, for example, has shot clock. I think One Pocket has to be played with shot clock. How much time they give you?

At Derby, it's one minute. Hmm. If you could make the perfect nine-ball shot clock, what would it be? I think it's good to where it's at right now. 30 seconds. 30 seconds. 30 seconds with a 30-second extension. Yeah.

Man. Because if you make it any shorter, it's going to be really difficult. Short is too difficult. But, I mean, the 40-second, like, it's just a touch, just a touch more to think about it. I think it's good where it's at. Yeah. It's difficult when you have to, like, switch cues. You have no extension.

For example, you jumped. So that's why you see us grabbing both of our cues. Running out there. Throwing your cue on the side and switching. It's really difficult sometimes. That's another shot that people hate that you got to leave in is the jump cue. When you jumped out. I love it.

You jumped out so many times during this U.S. Open. There were so many times you got hooked where you pop that ball in. And if you can't appreciate that on tight pockets, a beautiful shot where it goes airborne and fires right into the hole and then you get position on the next ball. Yeah, I think it's great. I think those that are voting against it are those that can do it. Yeah, there's a lot of old school guys who just, they get set in their way. and they think that's a stupid cue, it's a little tiny cue, fuck that thing.

But why are they different golf clubs? Because there's different shots. Why do you break with a different cue? Because it's a different shot. Of course. I think it's what gets actually new people to watch it because it's exciting. Look, this guy jumped over this ball. He was this close to the ball.

It's amazing. It's like a trick shot. And then also it's like the cues that people are jumping with today, they're designed so well for that. Yeah, like I really like that Q-Tech one. That's, I think, my favorite one. That one is, and you helped design that, right? Yeah, I wasn't waft. I was involved, yes. But not anymore. Not anymore. I'm with a different company. Now we're starting a new brand. I will be starting my own brand really soon. When you think that's going to be available? My personal job, Q? Yeah. Yeah. probably I would say if everything goes by the plan maybe first quarter of next year

so that's the thing with pool too it's like when you see a guy who plays really good everybody wants to play with whatever the fuck he's playing with right so it's one of for a sport and a game it's like one of the most marketable in that regard because almost everybody when they find someone is like whether it's effron or like that's why so many companies like Mucci was sponsoring everybody back in the day because when these guys were playing and they were winning, everybody just wanted to go out

and buy a Mucci. Because it's like there's a mind... It's like any sport. It's like any sport. It's like, you know, tennis is the same or golf. You just want to have the same tennis, record as Roger Federer. But don't you think there's a giant variety in the way

those things hit as opposed to a way tennis racquet's hit? I don't know because I don't play tennis, but it looks the same whereas like the way pool cues are manufactured, the differences in the weight, the differences in the taper, the differences in the shaft composition, whether it's wood or carbon fiber. For sure. And I think when it comes down to like a playing cue, then it's really, really personal.

You know, some players like softer hits, some players like hotter hits. But when it comes to a jump cue, it just comes down to how effortless the jump queue does the job. Right. And how accurate you can do with it. yeah yeah um do you have like a mental checklist that you go through before you execute a shot do you have like a pre-shot mental preparation i do a lot of breathing breathing technique so for example i would breathe in on the four counts then i hold it for like four or five and then i'd breathe out for like seven eight seconds to calm myself down do you do that when you're sitting in the chair yeah i do

that all the time when I'm sitting in the chair. Usually I would do like a loud, breathe out when I'm at the table sometimes to just let it out. And I kind of started to show emotions too because I just feel that's okay. You know, before I used to be like, you know, I can't show any emotions because it's weakness. But now I just... The Russian way. I just don't care now. You're American now. Yeah. I'm fully Americanized now. That's interesting. Showing emotions. Well, I definitely. think that's the case when someone misses because when someone misses and then they whack the table with their stick boy that that empowers the other player yeah of course it definitely does of course

and that's what some of the coaches that i've worked with uh in my childhood they were all telling me you know don't show any emotion uh you don't want to show any weakness to your opponent they're going to be feeding off of it and that's what kind of got stuck with but i'm just glad that i'm out of it right now Well, it's the most, I think, and Jeremy Jones and I were talking about this, I think it's the most mental game because there's this moment of pulling the trigger, this moment where you're making sure that everything aligns and you just kind of keep your mind on task and keep focused on the object ball. Do you look at the cue ball before you strike or the object ball? So it really depends on the distance between the object and cue balls. For example, when it's close to each other, object ball and the cue wall, I look at the cue ball last. When it's long distance, I look at the object ball list.

Why is that? That's just how I find it working for me. You know, it's another thing that's very personal for other players. You know, I think most of the people look at the cue ball last, but I just prefer the object ball works better for me. It's interesting because it is a preference thing. Yeah, so definitely a personal preference. I feel like if you have the straight stroke, if you're a stroke of straight, you will always hit the cubal where you're intending to hit it. So it's more about where you're going to hit it on the object ball.

There's a guy named Joel Turner, who is, I don't know if I talked to you about this guy. He used to be, well, he was a sniper for, like, for rescue missions with the police where, like, someone had a hostage and he would have to, execute shots under extreme pressure. And he was also a bow hunter. And he realized that there were certain mistakes that he was making, and a lot of people are making bow hunting that had to do with anticipating the shot and anxiety before you pull the trigger. And that the way to work around that is to have a pre-shot routine in your mind where

you're talking to yourself loudly in your head. And you develop this pre-shot routine. with very specific things that you say to yourself. You say, like, here I go, like, you know, whatever different things, he's got a bunch of different steps that he's set, where he's talking to himself, like, center your peep site. There's like a bunch of things in the heart train. I have almost the same.

That's what I wanted to ask you. Visualization and meditation is really big. So what do you say to yourself, like when you're about? My biggest demon in my head is I'm just scared to miss the bowl. I'm just, you know, when I'm down on the shot, Sometimes my brain goes, well, you're going to miss the shot. What are you doing? You're going to miss it for sure.

Like, the way you're aiming this shot, you're going to miss it for sure. So my thing is just telling to my brain that I have to stay positive. No, I'm going to fucking make this ball. I'm making this ball. Bitch. And I, it works for me. Yeah. If you think you're going to miss, you will miss.

Yeah. It 100% works like that. What I was getting at is it, I found a giant crossover between, that and archery in that it's the same thing like if you think you're going to miss an archery you're going to miss and if you think you're going to miss in pool you're going to miss right yeah it just works like that it is it's crazy it's like your subconscious like tells you to miss and it's almost like the pressure is too much so you alleviate some of the pressure by anticipating them the miss in

advance right it's weird so that's why I question to you is like what is the process that you go through to fight that off it's just saying i'm going to make that fucking ball well yeah it's an experience already you have to you have to miss a few shots to understand why why that happened right and i did i did lose a few big ones like that for example i played josh philler and germany and the european open was a really really big match you know the whole crowd is cheering for him quarterfinals of the european open and i i landed on the nine ball really weird But I'm still a big favorite to make the shot It was like a off angle

I was shooting from the rail Quarterfinals of the European Open And I was up 9-8 Race to 10 And I missed the 9-ball Just because I knew that I was gonna miss the ball Same things happened in Saudi And I was up 10 to 3

I think it was last 16 I'm almost straight down on the 9 ball But I just know that I'm going to miss the ball Oh no I just know that And I'm down on the shot and I know that shot clock is running on me. I'm like, no way.

I just can't get up. I just can get up. I don't have enough time. So I missed the wall. I'm glad that I've won the match, and I won. I ran the next wreck. But it's just weird how that works. So now you have those experiences, and then what do you do when that's over?

When you go, okay, that can't happen again. I got to make sure that that mindset never creeps into my head again. So you just have to switch your focus to. your fundamentals. That's what helps me. For example, Nick Vandenberg, he used to be a big player back in the day in Netherlands. He would practice sitting on his couch for hours. Just practice visualization, just practice on the table. He would imagine himself practicing in the pool hall, like straight on shots.

He wouldn't even go and practice. Whoa. That's weird. Well, that's a weird dude. Yeah, but it worked for him. Well, there's a lot of science to that. in terms of studies that have been done about visualization and the improvement. And they found that actual real visualization, when you're really sitting down there and visualizing, counts almost as much as practice.

And in some cases, more. And no one knows why. Well, visualization is really big for us. For example, you're never going to win the tournament without believing that you can actually win it. And you can only believe that you can win if you can only visualize. is like visualize that you won that tournament. Right. Which is why I say that this is like the most mental of games.

Yeah. You know, it is, it's such a weird dance that goes in your head. Like sometimes with, and again, I'm not a good player. I'm half-assed. But sometimes I play really good. Like if I get like six hours, two or three days in a row, I can get in stroke and I start running racks. But when I'm not and then I go to execute,

There's, like, this thing in my head that, like, right when I'm about to aim at the, like, right when I'm about to pull the trigger, my head goes, don't hit it there, hit in here. And you're like, okay. At a touch of outside. And I do it, and I miss. I'm like, why did you change where you were going to hit it? Like, last minute, what the fuck is that? And I've been playing pool for 30-something years. But sometimes that works, and you're like, I'm glad I did that.

Yeah, rarely. Most of the times I miss. Most of the times when I change where I'm going to hit last second. I miss. But we all do that. Yeah. Or when I think, I'm not going to be this accurate. Let me aim to overcut it.

And then I'm like, oh my God, you overcut it all the length of the table, you fucking idiot. If you just accurately, like, hit where you thought you were going to hit, you would have made that ball. It's this weird thing. But that's why I love the game. Because when you're really playing pool, the world goes away. It goes away. You're not thinking about anything. You're not thinking about global.

warming you're not thinking about shit you're not thinking about inflation how much eggs cost you're not thinking about shit the world goes away when you're on that table when you're playing the world goes away that's what i like about archery and that's what i like about pool they have the same quality to them and that to do it correctly is so difficult that it requires all of your mind i agree totally agree with you and unlike chess which also requires all of your mind pool has the added element that you have to execute you have to pull it off under pressure with shaky hand kind of like a mix of chess with uh i don't know golf i'd say yeah it's well i think it's just its own thing well it's an old thing for sure it's it's its own thing it's very different than any of those other things even though i don't play either one of them it's it's very different than any of those other things and when people get into it man it takes their whole fucking life over i remember my manager had to have a conversation made me months when I lived in New York it was like I think

you're spending more time playing pool than you are in your career I'm like fuck he's right he's right I took a whole year off I didn't play for a whole year and then I came to L.A. and I started playing a little bit again I was like God he got me again just sunk its teeth

right back in me hell yeah yeah the amount of cues you have is crazy and now when I'm like if I'm talking to someone and they're boring I just think about playing pool I think about getting out. I think I'm like, here, here, to hear, to hear, it's like my default brain.

It falls into these. But it's not really about the, it is about the game, for sure. But what it's really about is sinking your mind to something. That's where the true joy comes in, sinking your mind to something, and then executing it to perfection. I think it's, um,

it's some kind of a mental exercise. like akin to cardio, akin to lifting weights. There's a mental exercise to it. Also, the enjoyment from developing a skill, and you just know how hard it is, I think the enjoyment is even bigger in that regard. Yeah. Yeah, it's a game that I really wish more people to appreciate.

I wonder how many people are still listening to this podcast that are just regular people. They're like, is he going to fucking talk about pool with this guy for three hours? Yep, this one's not for you. But that's the beauty of having four podcasts a week. You can throw one of them entirely a pool. But for pool players, there's a lot of people that get it. It's not like anything else.

In this weird world of non-physical things, in this weird world of virtual things, of playing video games and of being connected with computers, which is all very, very fun. Those are all really fun to do. There's a kinetic aspect. to playing pool that I think a lot of people forgot how satisfying and rewarding it is and how intriguing the game is.

And that's why I always chime on about it. I think it's good for you. Yeah, for sure. And actually, the way, for example, Vietnam marketed pool is they started opening pool rooms with computer clubs in the same. building oh so that's like a computer cafe type deal type of thing yeah but the huge ones huge ones they have pool rooms with hundreds of tables oh wow yeah Vietnam Vietnam right now is probably the most pool playing country in the world wow and how long ago did this start maybe three four years ago

really that's crazy what made it explode in Vietnam like that I had no idea for example Hanoi Open, the first major we had in Vietnam three years ago, I had no idea or any expectations going to the event. But I always knew that I had some fans because on Facebook, like 40% of my followers are from Vietnam, which always seemed weird. 40%? Yeah. Now it's more. Now it's more. Whoa. So I went over there and I was amazed, amazed. Like in Hanoi alone, there's 2,000 pool rooms in Hanoi, just one CD. 2,000? Yeah.

That's crazy. What is this? The most luxurious pool hall in Vietnam. That's in Denang. I've actually been to this pool room before. Damn. But yeah, they have pool rooms with like hundreds of tables. This is Chinese eight bowl, by the way.

Yeah, that's a weird game, right? It's become really, really popular. Hugely popular, right? Really popular. It's, um, very lucrative right yeah yeah those guys are making big money now in uh they're called hay ball now it's called hay ball right it used to be called chinese apoll so what what made that game explode in china they were just throwing big big money in the game and uh it really exploded everywhere

because now all the english and snooker players english eight ball players and snooker players are traveling playing all those tournaments there and uh maybe top 30 guys now on their tour making good money and they are uh i think they are trying to get the pool players to join them as well a lot of guys will probably do it just for the cheese yeah well that's that's the problem what is a big tournament in hayball pay the biggest one pay 750 000 for first but they have almost big tournaments every month they pay 200 300 000 first wow and small tournaments, you know, they pay 50, but they're happening every two weeks. But you were saying when you went

over there, like regular dudes that you were playing were like robbing you. Yeah, the competition is really high. The game is a little bit different. So they use pool balls, snooker type of rail. So the pocket is round, and they used like a snooker cloth. So it's really thick and like hairy. So it's got a lot of nap to the cloth. So the ball move slower.

Right. The hit ball is really hard. Is that because of the rounded edges? Like you got to fire them through there? For example, if the ball is close to the rail, that's probably the best way to make the ball because you can push through the rubber. Oh.

Kind of like a Russian pyramid type of thing. Well, there's that one shot where in the side pockets where you can push through the nipple of the side pocket. Yeah. So it's like that? Kind of the same thing, kind of. Because I watch a lot of those guys online and they fire balls in.

I'm like, this is crazy. Yeah, the competition is really, really high there because there's so many players and so many pool rooms in China that just have table tables. And it's becoming popular everywhere. And when did that start in China? I would say it started like 10 years ago, maybe even before that. That's great. So think about that. That emerges 10 years ago.

So this is only, we're talking about 2015. It's not that long ago. So that emerges 10 years ago. And then Vietnam emerges three years ago. Vietnam is booming. But maybe I just found it. out three years ago. Maybe it starts before. So let's imagine that's 10 years as well. That's still nothing. That's not that long ago. Yeah. Like, so it gives me hope that something similar can

happen in America. I think so. I think, I think the audience is different. How so? Because something has to happen in order to draw the younger audience here. I don't know if the social media is the answer, but in Vietnam, it's just, they don't have any bars and pull They don't drink in pool rooms. They just play the game. Everybody's following professional pool. Everybody know who Shane Van Boing is. That's going to be tough to get people with no bars.

Exactly. People over here are a bunch of drunks. Well, APA has 270,000 members, 270,000 U.S. alone. And those are mostly bar players. Those are mostly bar players that play on Fridays, and they probably don't know who Shane Van Boehner is. What? That's not possible. It is possible.

Come on, really? Yeah. Really? league and they don't know who Shane Van Boni is. I'm telling you. That seems insane. He plays in those bar table tournaments sometimes. There used to be a lot more of them, yeah.

I watched some recent one from Boston. They had some big... Right. Yeah. That's ultimate pool they started. That's the company from UK. Oh, is it? They're starting to, yeah, they're starting to break through in the U.S. as well.

Kind of crazy, because it's a really quick shot clock. Big ass pockets, little ass table. And if you miss, you're fucked. Right. Because these guys are all running. out. Justin Bergman is a wizard at that too. Yeah. Bar table label is a different game. It looks easy. You look at it. You like, oh, small table, big pockets, this is easy. But no, if you miss, like if you get out a line and you miss, the game's over, you guys are going to run out.

And that's additional pressure. Yeah. There's more strategy in eight ball. All the clusters and everything's all cluttered up together. Right, right, right. And you can't shoot your opponent's ball, so you've got to figure out a way to bump them and move them and get a shot on the eight. Do you think the eight ball is still the most played game because of leagues? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, most people don't, like, I had a friend here and he was like, I play really good pool.

I go, what do you play? You play nine ball? I was like, no, I play regular pool. I'm like, yeah. What is regular pool? Like, you don't play. Right. We had a conversation.

I was like, okay, okay, okay. Let me explain nine ball to you. Like, you play eight ball. It's not regular pool. But it may change. With Metron being involved, it may change because they push nine ball only. Yeah. Well, the thing about nine ball that's very exciting is the luck factor.

Right. Luck factor's huge. You know, when you watch a guy shoot a ball into the corner and he hits the rail and it bounces three rails and goes into the side, it's fucked. If you're sitting there, if you're in the chair and you were hoping, oh, he missed, it's my chance? No. He got lucky. And that's luck as part of it. And sometimes people shit in the nine ball and that's the whole, they win.

And people like, how could that be a win? is an accident like that's part of the game it's part of the fun of the game and then also you could win off the break that's also part of the game and that drives people crazy no spot that

I think I think it's great I mean luck luck is part of any sport I think I also like when someone misses an easy shot and then the opponent runs out and makes it nine on the break so it's like fuck you you're punished you fucked up and the pool gods do that to you all the time

they do if you miss a ball, it's kind of weird how oftentimes, like, you have to sit in the chair for a few racks because the guy just gets a bunch of, like, really awesome lucky breaks. You know, like, this is terrible. For sure. And, you know, what I also found when I'm winning more, I'm also getting more lucky. Yeah. I just get the love. I miss the ball and then the guy is absolutely hooked. I wonder what that is. Why is that so reliable? Because it's really reliable. I wish I knew the answer. I would be doing something for sure. If some, like, super eggheads, who studies pool like Dr. Dave

Like if that guy could explain this, I would like to know. Because I think there's a kind of science to it. And I think it has to do, I don't know what it is. But I think there's a positive, when you're in gear, when you can't miss and you're in stroke and you're firing balls and you're playing really well, you get these lucky breaks. It's weird.

It's like you're putting out. positive energy. But when you're down and you feel like shit and you're like, God damn I can't catch a break and then the guy misses and you're stuck behind two balls and you're like, God damn it. This always happens. I wonder. I often wonder, did you make that? Did you manifest this? Are you manifesting good luck with positive energy? That's what I do, yeah. I wonder. That's what I do. I mean, I'm always trying to be positive because I think there is a benefit to it. I think there's a real benefit, like a real world, unmeasurable benefit that would probably show up in statistics. But not even in Poole, I think in real life it's the same.

Yes, I think so too. Yeah, that's what I think Poole mirrors life in a lot of ways. I think that's the case. I also think, like, being really generous in real life is, like, really good for you. It's really good for everybody. It's not good for just for the people that you're being generous to, but it's good for you, too. It's good for everybody. Right.

It's like more good things happen for you when you do that. It's the same sort of principle. Yeah, karma is real. It is real. It just doesn't seem like it should be. It seems like you should be able to figure out life on, you know, a yellow legal pad with a pen and some really good calculus. But, no, there's some things going on that nobody has figured out how to put a measuring tape to. No one's figured out how to put it on a scale.

There's some things going on. Yeah, that's a difficult one. Yeah. And there's things going on with your mind that no one is ever going to be able to figure out. Like, no one's ever going to be able to figure out why some people get lucky all the time. But there's, I think there's probably something to it. Like Effron, for example. That guy used to always say, I got lucky.

He was always saying I got lucky. Meanwhile, who's more positive than that guy? When he would miss, he would laugh. He would laugh and scratch his head Never looked like he was mad I would want her to break my fucking stick But he would he was just like Oh no, I missed

He'd scratch his head and go oh no And sit down and be all super positive Right And but he got lucky a lot I agree Maybe that's the case Yeah Well that's why I wonder

That's why I wanted to ask you About your pre-shot routine Like what is what are the things You're saying to yourself in your mind or is it just a lot of experience and a lot of, I'm going to make that shot? Well, it's basically shutting down the negative thoughts. You know, being positive is really difficult at times, especially when things are not going your way,

when the opponent is, I don't know, missing and shit saves on you or fluking a few balls or just doesn't miss any balls. It's really difficult to stay positive in your chair. Yeah. So you just got to focus on what you can, control and hope for the best. That's all I do. Have you ever thought about doing what Nick Vanderberg does when he sits on the couch? Just like visualizing, running out while you're watching your opponent play? I think I have that going through my brain when I'm like listening

to like a hype-up music. For example, when I'm walking through the match and I'm like, howl of hype-up. What is hype-up music for you? What do you listen to? Different, different. Depends on the mood. Sometimes it's like gangster. rap sometimes it's like what kind of gangster rap what do you like uh Russian Russian stuff Russian oh you gotta send me some okay yeah tell me what's good Russian gangster rap it's good for the gym perfect for the gym yeah yeah perfect oh nice uh funk funk funk music I like funk like Brazilian funk I like music like that that I don't know what they're saying right I really enjoy that I do understand what they're saying but sometimes it just doesn't make all all that sense so

Russian gangster rap? Like, can you give me an example, like, that we could play right now? Like, what is a good Russian gangster rap that Jamie can pull up? Well, his name is scriptanet. Scriptenet? Yeah. Like, scriptenite, like, kryptonite? Yeah, well, his name is scriptinit.

He's really popular in Russia. Let's see if you can find that guy. What's a good song? Usually it's a few remixes. Well, let me, let me see. What's like a... You put me on the spot. I didn't even know that they had a lot of Russian gangster rap.

Oh, yeah. for sure I mean it's not not great music but it helps me up well a lot of hype-up music is not necessarily great music this guy's called ice gurgirt

I don't even know if he's popular or not I just like his stuff give me one script tonight though one good song that you like let me see like one like you and Josh Phil are about to play for half a million

you're on your way so this song is is not good it has a cursing all over it oh perfect but just tell me what it is we'll have Jamie pull it up Moscow loves ecstasy oh

I bet a lot of people Moscow do love ecstasy probably pretty accurate song you got it Jamie it's not written in English yeah it's not written in English Yeah, it's not written in English. I just want to hear so.

Oh, oh, the actual name. I got to like get the right version of it because it didn't. It's called Moscow. Let me do copy, paste. If you want, I can have them send it to me and I'll send it to you. No, no, that's not the issue. Oh, okay. I'm literally, it's written and I don't even know how to type that in.

There it is. I can't type that something saying like it was. Oh, right, right, right. When I Googled it, it was on a lyric site. but this also is going to get us in trouble this is going to get us in trouble we can't play any music anymore oh yeah

all right well we just we'll cut it out you've got to go forward a little bit I like it yeah so it's something like that it sounds like he's on access to though maybe I bet he is maybe

I mean most of the stuff he says you can't even understand what he's saying because he's so fast and he's actually from Kazakhstan. Here's a translation. Oh, here it is. Wet asphalt, gray face. You'll find everything you need. Love or treasure in the depths of the woods.

Only the lipstick was worn off. Ceiling, starfall, fingers on the temple. The eyes are... This is all nonsense words. Yeah, it doesn't translate that well. Tomorrow, again, wet asphalt, gray face. They're only clouds above you. Okay.

That sounds like ChatGPT wrote it. Like ChatGPT, too. A straight translation from Russian. never makes any sense. No, right? Is that, what is that like, like, learn, but first of all, you know how to read it, right? So you read, what is it, Cyrillic, is that what it's called?

So, um, you read it and write it. Like, what is it like when you have to learn English? Like, how much of a weird juxtaposition, when you see the two languages together? Well, it's, I don't know. It was kind of easy. I think English is the easiest language to learn. Really?

Because I was, I was studying French in school. I was in the French school. And for me, it was a lot tougher to learn French. I used to speak fluent French before. Now I just don't remember anything. Really? Yeah, I actually start forgetting Russian a little bit because I start thinking in English

because I spent so much time here. Oh. So I didn't learn English proper enough, but to where I can speak and understand and, you know, at least have a conversation. And then I don't really speak with anybody in Russian, so I start forgetting it. Oh, no!

You're a man of nice. no country. Exactly. That's terrible. That would be terrible. And if you go back to Russia, they get mad at you, they can't talk good? No, I mean, I still talk good. I actually go to Russia at least once a year. Just to stay tight? Stay close to the game. Stay close to my family. But I would imagine, like, if you fell out of Russian, like, if it became uncomfortable for you and you went over there, that would be so weird for them. No. No, I mean, they're They're fine with it. There's a lot of things. Listen, if, say like if my daughter moved overseas and went to Spain and started speaking Spanish and then came home to America and had a hard time

talking to me, I'd be like, what happened? I'm not going to, like, completely forget the language. Right. But it would be just that I would be using, like, a lot simpler words. My vocabulary is going to be tiny here. Right. But then what if you're away for 10 years? Yeah, well, then you gain an accent and... And then people like, look at you. You win America on us. You son of a bitch. Do you get any heat for coming to America? At first, of course, I did.

Yeah. I've had all my friends. My friends actually, they supported me all the time. So I'm just glad that I had good friends and have good friends. But, of course, the casual fans and, you know, the keyboard warriors. Yeah. They're always on me. I get the heat from that.

Because you left Russia. Yeah, sell out. But, you know, not born in the USA. That's the music they always play in Musconica. Not born in the USA. Is there a song like that? Well, they play the song. The Born of the USA song?

No. Not yet. Oh, not. That song is very depressing anyway. If you want to get patriotic, that's not, like, born in the USA is a terrible song. It's, like, so sad. It's not like life is awesome. Yeah.

Like, that song is, like, depressing. It's, you know, it's about living in a terrible part of the USA. Like, it's not like the American dream. But not really. I mean, I don't have the heat from the Russians. Not really. I don't have that. That's good.

There's a lot of Russian people living in the United States. So you get more heat from Americans that are upset that you came over from Russia? I really, the Europeans, I think. The Europeans that are the most upset ones, I think. Probably because you're now playing for the Americans. I know that you could fuck up their whole mess. Skoni Cup thing. Maybe, maybe.

I do have a lot of, I would say, Polish haters, just because I'm Russian. Yeah, Polish. I have a lot of Polish haters. Just because I was born in Russia. Oh, but they just automatically don't like Russians? Yeah. Yeah, that always happens. Yeah, if you don't have haters, you're not doing anything, right?

Right. You know, if you're... I'm sure you have a lot of them, too. I'm sure I do. Yeah. What was that crazy guy that was... He was trying to fight you or something? Oh, the liver king.

Yeah, that poor unfortunate guy. I don't know, man. He just got it in his head somehow or another that I was responsible for what was wrong with him, that I was a bully to him, which is crazy because all I did was point out what was like super obvious. Like you're lying about being on steroids. Like, hey, don't lie about being on steroids. Don't be a public person and no one will say that. It's that simple. You got to take personal accountability for errors that you made.

I think there's some substances involved, if I had a guess, that led him down a bad road, unfortunately. But it's also fame, man. It's not, you know, I'm sure you experienced it because you experienced a lot of haters in the pool world. But fame is not what people think it's going to be. You know, you think, I'm going to be famous and life will be easier because people will know who I am. No, life is going to be way harder because now you're under the microscope. Oh, for sure. You can't go away.

24 hours a day. And this is a guy in the Brian, who calls himself the liver king, who was not famous most of his life and then decided I want to be famous and I have this great body. So what I'm going to do is just like tell everybody they have to eat liver and sell a bunch of supplements. And he made a lot of money selling a bunch of supplements. And then is, can I tell the truth? We're out of steroids. The problem with that is that physique is not achievable in your 40s without somehow. It's just not. It's just not. You could be a freak athlete and have that physique at 23. It's possible. There's a few guys that can, but you have to have superior genetics and an insane work ethic. And you have to be like really intelligent about how you approach your training. But once you get into your 40s and if you didn't look like that when you were younger, oh, yeah, you're on something. Everybody knows it. There's nothing wrong with being honest. something. Like there's, here's a thing it's like, if you want to be an influencer online, it doesn't exclude you from taking, if you're a person who takes testosterone or

any, even, there's guys who have huge followings who are clearly on anabolic steroids. They just don't lie about it. That's all it is. Like, it doesn't make you less famous or make your, your physique less valid. No one, no one really, I mean, there's going to be a few

people, oh, he's a juice head. But reality is most people are just like, wow, that's really impressive. But what people hate is when you mislead them, when you pretend you're doing something that you're not, especially if you're also selling supplements or selling a lifestyle and telling them about your ancestral tenants. It's just got to take accountability. You made mistakes. If you didn't make mistakes, I'd be celebrating you. If you were like this guy who's like, there's a bunch of people that we talk about on the podcast all the time that I know are on Juice.

But they don't lie about it. And no one gets upset at them. It's real simple. Right. It's just, it is what it is. But that, you know, it's a guy just take a lot of heat. And they just, he also funded,

I think he had at least had a part in funding this Netflix documentary about him, which I didn't watch it, but I heard it was not flattering at all. And it made him seem kind of insane. And that probably sucked. And then after that, he, you know, was mad at me. But again, fame is not a normal thing.

It's not normal. And if you don't have personal sovereignty, if you don't understand yourself, truly understand yourself, not just trying to project an image of what you like people to think of you, but who you actually are, that's where you get in trouble with fame. and then also reading haters and reading the comments and you know and wanting people to love you which is probably why a lot of people get famous in the first place there's also like the the thing of getting famous as a goal versus becoming famous because of a thing you do you know what I mean like becoming famous because people like your comedy or your podcast or they like the way you play pool or the way, you play basketball, like, that's a different thing when you specifically go out of your way because you want to become famous.

And that's a lot of people. It's a lot of, it's really weird that's a lot of, like, very wealthy people. I know some people that are really wealthy, and the thing that they really want is to be famous. It's weird. Just an ego, egomaniac. Well, it's the thing they can't buy. It's like they have private jets. They got a house here and a house there, and they got a company here and a company.

here and a company there but they really want to be famous you know so they will they that's a lot of those guys want to go on podcasts and they want to like sort of like let the world know how cool they are it's weird it is you know it's like and then a lot of those guys they take the heat

off the comments and the haters and they don't like it and like Jesus Christ I didn't know it's going to be this like yeah that's that's what you signed up for you signed up the game yeah you're on the world theater and that's a it's a lot eyeballs it's a lot of a lot of a lot of fucking venom-tongued people out there just want to say

terrible things about you yeah can't wait to something that happened and you have to have the same way you have that discipline to not allow those negative thoughts in your head before you make a shot you also have to not allow other people's negative thoughts in your head either right because they're as valid if not more valid than your own negative thoughts oh there's so many different opinions uh-huh this is for example every time i make a, I don't know, bad decision to their opinion. You know, they will always voice it to me and say, well, sure. And you just got to deal with it.

Yeah, or not pay attention to them, which is, I think, the best way to do it. You must be aware. Everyone's aware if they fuck up, and you're always aware if people are upset at you about things, but don't fucking focus on it. Don't pay attention. And that's where comedians make a giant mistake. podcasters make a giant mistake I'm sure pool players do it fighters do it in a big way like a lot of fighters get real mad when they read comments yeah you know and they invite trolls to come to

their gym and some of them beat the trolls up which is kind of crazy you know some guys will talk shit and they'll be so dumb that they'll actually think that they can go to the gym and you know spar with sean strickland or something that's the worst thing you can do because that's what troll is wanting that's what his goal is trying to get to your head yeah but But if you can get him in the gym, it's worth it. Yeah. Like, Sean Strickland has a bunch of videos of guys who talk to shit online. He just beats the fucking piss out of them.

Which is like, then he wins. You know, then it comes all full circle. Like, paying attention to the haters actually paid off because for him, it's easy work. He just tunes these guys up. Like, it's nothing and talks shit to them all. He's kicking the fuck out of them. Yeah. Well, I guess in that case it doesn't work.

Yeah, but with pool, it's like you don't want to have. to play some idiot who says you suck. Like, okay, put up money, let's play. Like, they probably won't. They won't. And then you'll be talking with them back and forth. What is the most amount of money that you've ever gambled for? Against Shane.

That was it? Yeah. So you don't want to say the full amount, but that was the most amount. But this Joshua Filler thing, what they offered, if that ever happened, that would be the biggest one. It could be the biggest one. It could be the biggest one. But also, on my end, I just don't want it to be a one match and done. Right.

I want to play. You know, if I lose, I want to play again. If I win, I want to play again. What was he proposing in terms of a race? He wanted to do the same. He wanted to do the same thing. 120. 120, 10 bowl over three days.

Just the same thing. And what would you think about that? I think, yeah, we should, we can do that for sure. But my take on this was, wanted to play in rail yard in Louisville where we play all of our own your spot yeah well it's not really my spot it's considered spot you go to a lot right not really i go there you know oh i think you're lying couple times a year i'll live 30 minutes from there oh see that's your spot but i don't i don't go there shut up that's your home room it's not my home room i have a table at home i practice

at home right but your home room where you go to is like the place where you go that's near your house that's an actual establishment, not your home table. I mean, you can, you can, yes, I mean, you can say it like this, but I don't go there. I don't practice there. I'm never there. Right. I bet everybody knows your name. Oh, yeah.

Walk in the door. Well, that, everybody knows your name everywhere. It doesn't count. But, um, but, um, I could see why you wouldn't want to play there. Yeah, of course. That's your home room. We can find a neutral spot. We can find neutral spot.

Maybe we're setting it up right here on this podcast. Let's do it. What's the most amount you think you get to stay? for uh i will have to consult yeah i'll have to consult yeah consult with those gentlemen 200 000 maybe could be for it's a lot of money it's a lot of money let's do it right here i'd be in i'd be into doing that i'd have to tighten that table up right yeah well would you want it four and a quarter we played four and a quarter oh that's another thing he wanted to do he wanted to only play in a four-inch table.

So he wants to make a tighter. Because me and Shane, we play in four and a quarter. Oh, I see. And he thinks if he makes it tighter, I'm not going to be making as much balls on the brake, and I can't control the brake. You know, it's always, when you negotiate a match like this, you always want to have an edge.

Right. And little change here and there may make the outcome different, but, I mean. I feel like you should do it in a place where you can get an audience, though. We can. Yeah, but it's going to be the biggest draw of the audience we can possibly have. Online, for sure.

It's going to be the biggest. What I mean is in person as well, like a place where there's a lot of people that can watch in person. I think me and Shane would draw a bigger crowd, but maybe. Really? Yeah. Yeah, probably. Shane is a huge American hero when it comes to pool. Right.

But it just seems like he doesn't like it anymore. With filler, it's different. You know, he's like Jake Paul. A lot of people watch him. but they watch him because they want him to lose. Really? Well, I just found it like this. I didn't know that.

I'm just hearing that for the first time now. I thought he was beloved. Well, it's kind of changing, I think, lately. Why? Just the way he responded to a few different things, and social media makes it worse. Oh, no. Social media stuff?

Yeah. There was a few, a few, I don't know if you're involved with, like, WPA and mature and conflicts and stuff like this oh yeah that's right so there was a lot of weirdness where he was playing for like was the WPA said you couldn't play in a matron event or is that what it was what happened what happened was so we should explain to people that don't know there's two different competing sort of organizations yeah and in one point in time if you played for one they were telling you you can't play for the other and everybody's like that's kind of crazy guys right like pool is just starting to take off and don't

schedule shit at the same time as this other one that you know is going to be there work together so what happened was uh w p a is implementing all those bands and they say if you play in uh anoint open you will be banned for a certain period of time from wpa tournaments and all the top players at the time we wanted to change that by just stopping playing wpa tournaments so we just all of us top 16 players or top 10 players we just don't go to wpa tournaments and by that moment we wanted them to change that rule we wanted them to live the band right so the very next event after we spoke with all the players we were in the meeting room we fly to new zealand and i was flying with christina with my girlfriend at the time she was playing the world championships and

there was a world championships for men's which was a wpa tournament and uh we all agreed that we're not playing there uh but josh was there and he was playing so he he basically decided and went against what he was saying in that maroon. He turned up and signed up to play. He wasn't just him. It wasn't other players. But then it just led to more, like, he went on social media and tried to say, you know, he was trying to defend himself and say, you know, it wasn't, it was my dream to win that championships.

It was my... What better way to tell those other 10 guys that are the best in the world that you're not going? All right, we're all not going, and then you sign up. That means you just killed off nine or ten of the best players in the world. You have a much better chance of winning. He did get a lot of backlash from that, and I think to this day, that kind of stuck with him. I see. That makes sense.

That makes sense. He's a hell of a player, though. Oh, he's an unbelievable player. Yeah, and he's really young, too, right? How old is he? He's a little bit of little to me, maybe 26, 27, but he's the most fearless, the most talented player. He's kind of like Ronio Salon of Bull. Yeah, he's, well, sometimes when he gets hot, it's crazy to watch.

Or he's spiking balls in. Oh, the high gear is unbelievable. Yeah. Unbelievable. He would go for a long period of time without missing any ball. And the other thing about him is he never looks like he's freaking out. Like, it never seems to be affecting him. Like, he's never taking additional time in between shots.

No, he's a very fast player. even under extreme pressure yeah he doesn't really fall under pressure and uh just seems like he doesn't feel it sometimes he's so good sometimes it does feel like this and he was feeding off the actual like hate of the crowd in moscone like moscone cup if you watch las Vegas

i wasn't playing on those years but everybody's kind of rooting against him and he's just feeding off the crowd kind of like jason showed us wow yeah if you can't turn that into a fuel and just run wrecks that's amazing in my opinion yeah if you can do that if you have that kind of temperament but it's always interesting to me when a guy like that just seems to be so calm under pressure and just fires balls in like it's like it's like shocking like he's got a intimidating game right not that I don't think you could beat him it's a really good game though

it is it's like it's a really good game it's top one and two in the world you know I think at the very top, as you see with, you know, with Aloysius Yap, he won three tournaments in a row, which is crazy. It's crazy to win, like, three majors in a row. But, like, you know, Francisco Sanchez-Ruiz went on a tear where he was doing that for a while. You can, if you look back at, like, the years, even like 10 years from where we're at right now, is always one player winning tournaments for like a year or two and then switches to another player. Like Shane won back-to-back U.S. opens. Or Mika.

Yeah, Mika won back-to-back. Darren one, Darren Appleton, one back-to-back. Yeah. It's always... They get hot. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just maintaining that.

It's just so weird. Like we were talking about Coping Chung, who had that insane match in 2023, but this year didn't play nearly as well. It's really tough. I mean, life gets in the way, something, I don't know, family, business. Or you might have a neck injury like you had. Right, right, right. Your back might start bothering you. You get sciatica.

There's a lot of stuff that can't happen. Yeah. But it's just, that's why a high-level pool, when you watch it on a world stage like that, when it's executed so perfectly, so fun to watch. Because you know how hard it is to get there. Yeah, it's harder to even stay there. So what do you do differently now that you're world number one? Do you do anything differently to try to maintain your position?

Or is it just keep going? No, just keep going. I know what I did to get me where I'm at right now. Why would I change it? Yeah. I mean, I guess unless... Because a lot of people, they stop. Because, for example, they had a goal.

Their motivation is gone. Right. You know, my motivation has always been money, really. Most of the time it was just the money. I wanted to win as much as I can. I was kind of from the poor-ish family growing up, and I always, my biggest motivation was financial. But obviously I wanted to be a world champion,

and I had the dream to be a world champion. When I won the first world championships, you know, that dream was kind of gone. Now it's just another major, major, major. So they always ask me those questions where, what would it feel to you if you win another U.S. Open or World Pool Masters? Like, it would be great, but I think it would mean a lot more when I stop playing, like when I be sitting with my grandkids

and like, oh, well, Your grandpa was a two-thorn world non-bowl champion back in the day. It was four railing that nine ball right there. Why do you say it with a southern accent? Well, because I live in Indiana here. I live in southern Indiana. Is that a day of a southern accent in Indiana? Yeah.

Oh, that's interesting. I don't even have thought of that. Huh. Yeah. What would you assume their accent in Indiana would be? Depends where you are. Well, you're an Ohio boy. So you're close to Kentucky.

It depends where you are there. Right. You can have a accent. Cleveland's got an accent. That's true. That's true. People have accents, sort of. That's true. But it's just when you think about, just in general, like, Poole's growth, I think you're in a perfect position right now in life.

It's like if you had been this good 20 years ago, you would be in the same sort of trap that a lot of those, the older players were, where there's no real incentive. to be playing professionally. The only money that anybody was making in pool 20, 30 years ago, real money was in gambling. And there was a lot of guys that were making money gambling that weren't placing well in tournaments. They just, and they didn't want to. They didn't want to play in tournaments. They didn't want to knock their action. But I think you're in really the perfect timeline, whereas as you're getting better and as

pools getting more and more popular, the money's getting bigger and bigger. and I think it's a really awesome time for the game. I agree. I definitely feel fortunate to be in the right time, in the right era, with the way my career was going to. Because like you said, 20 years ago, I would have been nowhere. And it's also the guys, the players of today, it seems to me, correct me if I'm wrong,

but they're much more systematic with their training than they ever were before. Absolutely, absolutely. 100%. Everybody's more disciplined. everybody's treating as a sport like I said. They're not treating it as a game. They're treating it like a sport,

but they're also examining all the aspects of the game and constantly honing them. It's different. Like when I watch guys practice online, like you have a channel where you put a lot of your practice sessions online and, you know, you get to see, like there's no messing about.

It's like there's sort of serious training involved. Like serious position play, serious like getting that muscle memory over and over again and different ways to stroke a shot for example my idol growing up was always niels neil's fine and he has his own channel on youtube yeah he's great the terminator he is the best to follow the best the guy is doing uh visualization every day he's practicing every single day i think you know he's doing his 90 minutes of hardcore practice on the pool table he's live streaming he explaining why why would you have to practice and if you follow just everything he does, you will get to a different level, 100%.

Yeah, he's a world-class player, too. He's fun to watch. Yeah, super discipline, super, like a rafa. Raffa Nadal, he's the raffin-a-dahl in pool. It's a fun time. Fun time to be a pool player. And like I said, I think the sky's the limit. I think the game is going to explode over the next few years

because we've watched it get a lot bigger over the last four or five. Yeah, for sure. Let's set up the filler match. Yeah, man. I'll do commentary. How about that? Get match room involved. Let's do it.

Just set it up somewhere in Austin. I'll do it. Let's do it. Do it somewhere we can have a crowd in person, though. That's what I was getting at. Like, you're going to have a crowd online, but it'd be cool if you had a lot of people there in person. All right. You got it.

We'll set it up. Okay. Well, I want to see it. So, listen, congratulations on everything. It's been cool following you and seeing what happens. happened over the last time you were here and watching you just get better and better. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Joe. My pleasure, my brother.

Tell everybody if they want to follow you. What's your Instagram? My Instagram has a weird name, Kirstianich. But I have Facebook. Mostly, I spent a lot of my time on Facebook, TikTok. Oh, this is a question I wanted to ask you. Your name, some people say Fedor, some people say Federer, but in Russian, is it Fyodor? Fyodor.

Okay, that's what I thought. Because people were correcting me, I'm like, I don't, I think you're both wrong. A lot of people say, feeder. Yeah. A lot of them. I've heard, and when I was calling you Fedor, people are going, oh, he's saying that because Fador Malianenko. I'm like, yeah, well, that's kind of the accepted American pronunciation of Fyodor, though.

So I wanted to ask you if it was Fyodor. Yeah, it is. I knew I was right. Right, but nobody calls me like that. Okay, Fyodor. Let's see you are from now on, bro. All right. Let's play some pool, and then we get some neat.

All right. Bye, everybody. Bye-bye.