The Joe Rogan Experience - #2378 - Charlie Sheen

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

Charlie Sheen is an actor best known for his leading roles in films such as "Platoon," "Wall Street," "Major League," and "Rooftop Killer," and television shows including "Spin City" (for which he won a Golden Globe Award) and "Two and a Half Men." His new book, "The Book of Sheen," is available now. He is featured in the Netflix documentary, "AKA Charlie Sheen," streaming now. Charlie has recently co-founded a new non-alcoholic beer brand called Wild AF, which will be available in October. Born Carlos Estevez, Sheen lives in Malibu, CA, where he grew up.www.charliesheenbook.com www.netflix.com/title/82024990www.wildafbrewing.com PALEOVALLEY.COM/ROGAN OR ORDER ON AMAZON Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Fees may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 9/29/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, checking out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Great to finally meet you, Matt. It's great to meet you. It's a trip and, you know, walking in, and I'm thinking, is there, how is it possible that our paths didn't cross all those years? I mean, it's, it's conceivable we were in the same venue or the same building or at the same party or at least something.

I kind of avoided parties. I avoid basically everything. I avoided parties. I avoided premieres. Anything where there was a red carpet, like even if I was in a movie, I wouldn't go on the red carpet. I'd go in through the back door.

Seriously? Yeah, I don't like it. Wow. I don't like all that fucking look over here, look over here. That is just too fake for me. It just whatever hours, gee I have to that flares and I'm like I'm going in through the back door fuck this yeah no I don't I don't blame you I don't blame you they they stopped showing me where the back door was because I I support a similar entrance thing it's just too weird but it's that it's look over here look over here it's that thing something happens in that moment yeah and I think it's like it's it brings you as close to possibly sterilization as you can get without, you know, surgery.

I think it's bad for you. Yeah. I think it's like radiation. Yeah. Like you could take a little bit of it, but, you know, you don't want to be working the x-ray machine your whole life. No, no. And then there's always that one lady who keeps calling you back to her.

Charlie. Right, right, right. Far left, far left, far left. Yeah. And you've looked at her like seven times already. And then I'm out there thinking, if it took me this many takes to get a scene right, nobody would ever hire me. Yeah.

You wouldn't get past the first day. Well, they want to get a million pictures just to get that perfect one. There's a little bit of side eye to you, just a little something. Right. A little purse of the lips. A little something. That's the one that's the one. That's the one.

Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. But then they chew, which one do they always choose? The one that's absolute dog shit. Yeah, the one with your mouth open. Exactly. Or your eyes closed. Yeah.

Yeah. What I really don't like is the people who like it. Not that I don't like them is that I don't want to ever see. that in myself. And so when I'd be around them, I would just go, oh, I got to get out of here. Right. Right. Right. Right. Freak me out. The trappings. The trappings. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is there, because it feels like that system's been in place for over 100 years, right? Is there another, is there another way to do it? Probably not. No? People like it. People like it. You know, photographers like it. The press likes it. It's a big thing. There's a lot of people. There's a lot of

lights flashing it seems legit right right right yeah i just um i don't i can never um feel relaxed when everybody's yelling right you know it's that's totally unnatural it's completely unnatural the only way that would be happening in real life is if like you were on trial you know like you were being paraded in front of a bunch of people that jim there he is look over here you know it's odd it's odd yeah it's almost it's a form of a perp walk isn't it a little bit of a Purp Walk, and just a little bit of a mental illness exhibition. Right. You know?

Yeah. I just had it for the first time, like last, it would have been last Thursday. The first time ever? No, for the first time in like, in like maybe over a decade at the Netflix premiere for the dog. Oh, yeah. And it was, it was kind of cool, like the first, you know, 34 seconds. It was like, okay, I remember this. And then it was like, yeah, I fucking remember this.

Wow. Damn. And then I'm in the, right, the sun just beating right on my, on my floor. And it's just, I can feel myself start to sweat. Now I'm questioning the whole outfit, you know, the underwear choice, all of it. It's just like every decision I made leading up to that was completely wrong. Yeah. And it's all being documented, you know.

Oh, it's so odd. Yeah. Yeah, it's really funny when you first walked into the studio, you brought up a tweet that I had sent in 2011. I think this is when you were going crazy. Yeah. And I think this is also when my friend Russell Peters was doing those tours with you. Oh, that's right. I said, I need to get Charlie Shee in my podcast.

I know it's a long shot. But a boy could dream. But everybody knows him. Help me hook it up. Well, here we are. 14 years later. You know, it takes when it takes, right? Yeah.

It's funny because back then, I had no guests. I think I had, Anthony Bourdain was the only, like, real guest that I had had a lot of time. Yeah, he was 2011 as well. And how many shows had you done by then? Not that many by then. I don't know. So were you just doing solo shows, just like covering topics and talking to camera? I would do mostly with my friends, mostly with other comics.

Okay. We just sit and talk shit and then eventually. At, like, your house? Yeah, I was at my house back then. Okay. So it looked nothing like this. No, no, no. It slowly had to get out.

It's like I had too many weirdos that I had to bring by my house. house and I have young kids at the time they're really young I was like this is just too strange bring these weirdos yeah sure my house and you know it was just too odd I was like maybe some people shouldn't know exactly where I sleep right right yeah and it's interesting because driving here I was buried in my phone just you know for for the right reasons so I have no idea where we are good so it was kind of like a the version of being blindfolded with a sack over my head you know yeah that's probably how we should do it And then, like, I'm the guy they're blaming for introducing this.

Just put everybody in a blindfold and put him in the back of an SUV. Right, right. And drive to an undisclosed location. And make the guy drive a few circles around in, like, some neighborhood right over there. Yeah. Yeah. But we did it. We're here.

Those things that you did with Russell Peters were so fascinating. It was the whole thing was so fascinating. I watched the Netflix thing. I watched the first episode. And the whole... experience of watching the guy from platoon, the guy that everybody knows, this is like this gigantic super cool movie star, hot shots, all these different things, to watch you just, not just go off the rails with drugs, but like be super open about it.

You like the first guy super open about it, you know, and everybody just embraced it. Instead of it being like, oh, Charlie Sheen's doing drugs, that's so sad. It was like, we love him. Keep going. It was kind of crazy. All the tiger blood stuff and winning. Everybody was saying winning all the time. What was that like for you?

Was that like, was it the worst kind of reinforcement? Or did it let you, like, were you surprised by it? That's a great way to describe it. It is, yeah, the worst kind of reinforcement. Yeah, it was like unintentionally or otherwise celebrating. a guy's demise. Right. You know, and I guess the train wreck was so spectacular that there was such a spectacle

that they couldn't turn away. But they were also being invited in to follow it down the tracks. Yeah. You know, and then somebody asked me about it. And, you know, I don't know if I was the conductor, if I was riding a caboose or both simultaneously. It was a trip because thinking back on it. it it's you know some of it just kind of exists in in just polaroid snapshots to kind of drift past through the mist you know other other moments are in high-deaf but kind of seen through a tunnel

vision like and and it's it was there was an energy or it was there was an energy I tapped into that felt like I was playing a role but I couldn't figure out if you know what the move what the plot was who my co-stars were where somebody you know somebody show up with like a page one rewrite right that's what we fucking need you know and it and it got away from me and had it not been encouraged I think it could have been curtailed it could have been shut down a lot sooner you become kind of capture to the image yes yeah and there was something that and just recently something I stumbled on to it's

I was I was in some way I was being a bully it had a bullying kind of energy about it you know and I've never been that guy how so how so like bullying the way I was attacking people and I was challenging people I was like a tough guy on the block and had all these soldiers had this cold cadre behind me and it was like you know

inviting people into the ring I've never been in the ring what are we doing you know You're on cocaine That's what it is It's total cocaine behavior Among other things Yeah And I think

There was a whole testosterone component as well That was Just out of control Because there's You know What do they recommend Like a quarter-sized dollop

And like every other day And no There's a line in the book Where I say I was slathering that shit on Like a fucking ponds commercial Oh so you were using

The cream Yeah Yeah Yeah, which is hard to measure. It's not just hard to measure. It gets on other people. Oh. I read this story about this guy who is on TRT cream, and his child started, like, showing signs of premature development.

Oh. And they realized that this kid's testosterone level was through the roof because it's through the dermis, right? It's through the skin. So he's getting in on his arms, and then he's hugging his child, and the kid is getting juiced. Like, what were the kids' numbers? Did we know? We don't know. Like in the 7,800.

I don't think they released that, but they said that it probably permanently affected the kid's development. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Because this kid is, like, experiencing puberty at three. You know, you're getting bombarded with testosterone while your dad is holding you. Insane. Yeah.

Is that part of the reason they recommend, like, an inner thigh application? I guess then the only person would get it is the person you're having sex with. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Or your horse. Right. Stupid.

It's probably good for the horse. Right. So there was testosterone and cocaine together at the same time. That sounds like a combination of hubris. And a lot of rage. And a lot of rage. But the rage, I think, it's interesting because when you finally get some distance from something, you start to realize that it wasn't really so much about what you said it was about in the moment.

And I'm really realizing it wasn't about the job, wasn't about chalk. it was it was about all the stuff in my personal life you know it was about trying to just be a certain guy at work be a certain guy at home and then just never having the time to be a certain guy with me and I just I just couldn't I couldn't find any place to find any refuge or solace or any type of just a moment to breathe just to decompress you know that's so important yeah and I there was a it's not in the book because I can't really I don't remember it well enough to put it in the book and that was kind of how I decided what's in there and what's not, right? Or if something just isn't true, it's not in the book. And so, but it, you know, I was, I was,

I was trying to just kind of, you know, like, you know, I, I went through two divorces and had four children during, during that run of eight years, you know. And so, um, I, I, I, I went through two divorces and, and had four children during that run of eight years, you know. And so... That's crazy. It's insane, yeah. And they both, you know, they fell apart for married reasons and whatever. And but there wasn't time to heal the last one before the next one kicked off.

But that's all on me. You know what I'm saying? That's all on me making those decisions. That's one of the three lines in the book, is that it like really comes down to really being all about choices you know um but then um yeah and and and and and but it's just for for it to be just talking about the bullying stuff you know for it to be so so directed at a guy who let's like if you really break it down what did he really do to me he created this environment with a dream character in a in a

in an amazing show, so people tell me, right? That was, you know, the toast of the town, right? And all he asked for me was to just, like, you know, just show up, be responsible, know your lines, hit your marks, do your fucking job, you know? Those were the only demands. Essentially, the stuff I told him before I took the job

that I was going to do. So, and then I turned. into that, you know, it's really difficult to really look back on that and figure out why it got that far, how it got that far. I can help you out. Okay. Testosterone and cocaine. You know, having all kinds of conversations with people in your head that'll tell you exactly

what you're doing is correct. Right. Did you ever talk to Chuck? Did you ever hear, like, Chuck Loria? Sorry. Yeah, no, it was, yeah, no, that was, I was really grateful we were able to do that. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, I was carrying that around for two.

long. Yeah. He hired me for a show he had a few years ago called Bookie with Sebastian Manuscalco, right? Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah. So I came in and did, I played myself, did a few scenes, did a cameo, you know, did some fun stuff, and just back on a set with Chuck. And it was like it was, it just felt like it like it like it did in the early parts of, well, good on him for not holding a grudge too. Yeah. That's, that's awesome. Sorry I lost that thought earlier. No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, it's a complicated thing to think about. Like, Like, why did I go off the rails? You know, it's like, and it's very reasonable.

Here's the thing. I don't think anybody but Charlie Sheen knows what it's like to be Charlie Sheen. And in my estimation, there are a scant few people that have become massive superstars at a young age and came through it sane. I don't know anybody. Everybody, I mean, I know people. that have regained equilibrium and got their footing back and now they're on the right track. But no one gets through without a hiccup. It's everyone kind of goes crazy because you're living in this completely alien world that no one can help you navigate.

Even if you've watched the people closest to you go through it, most of your life and like just like right over there. Yes. Like in the next room. Right. Right. You know, or in the same room. Right. And a bunch of your friends.

Yes. It doesn't matter. It's still bananas. It's still an alien world that you live in, that no one that you run into during the day except the people like that can understand. Right. Which is like, people are always like, why do celebrities just hang out with each other? Well, because to them, they're the only people that are normal. Yeah. They're the only people that, like, I get it. I can't go to the supermarket either. I get it. I get it. Yeah, I get fucking TMZ'd at the airport as well. Right. Right. Right. It's normal for them. Because everybody else is like, whoa, it's Charlie Sheen. And they're just captivated. Like, you kind of need to be around people that understand what that life is like.

But the problem is, they're all going crazy, too. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's not, I mean, it's a great support group to a degree. You know what I'm saying? I think you can rely on them for the things that you have in common. Right.

But maybe take the more complicated shit, just right across the street. Yeah. Yeah. To the experts? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you can't rely on them for everything.

No. Because they're going through it, too. Can I just get a tissue? Yeah, sure, sure. Jimmy, you've got a box? Thank you. No worries. Getting sweating.

Is it hot in here? Turn the AC on. No, I'll tell you exactly what happened. I lost that thought and then I tried to cover and I realized this isn't, he's not buying this. And then I started sweating. And I started fucking sweating. So I'm just going to... It's normal, man.

Just say you lost your thought. It's all good. Yeah. It happens all the time. It happens to me, too. Why is that, though? Is our brain already trying to figure out the next thing that's going to attach to it? And by doing so, it took that the main thing and just dismissed it?

Perhaps. Okay. It's also brains are just not that good. Huh. You know, they're pretty good compared to chimpanzees and dogs and stuff like that. But, you know, they have a lot of issues. Okay. Just like what you're talking about your memories.

like my memories of my whole life or like a series of blurry snapshots that I can go oh yeah and then we went there oh yeah that happened oh yeah there's very few memories that I have that are like rock solid memories

right yeah I totally get that and there's a little thing in the book where I talk about memories are tricky and is it a story someone told me is it is it me in that moment or is it a you know a creased photo I saw on an old album in the 70s or 80s, was the memory given to me or did I create it?

Right. Yeah, and there's also the real possibility that you have false memories, and people do that all the time. And they've even shown that they can introduce memories into people's minds, and then with enough sort of encouragement or revisiting it, that person will accept it as a pure memory. That it actually happened to them. Yeah. And they'll talk about it, like, outside of that, and they'll have no knowledge that it was a false memory. Wow. Yeah, because it's just not a good system.

It's a system designed to keep you away from scary things. Like, there's the wolf. Oh, get away from the wolf. You know wolves are bad. I remember. I remember wolves are bad. That's the spider that's poison. Get away from that spider.

That spider that's poison. But, like, day to day, everyday normal shit, it's like, how much of a memory does it really need to keep? It's just, your brain's just not that good. And then even, and then so do certain, do certain memories then get overlaid with a, a newer version of that? Okay. Yeah, they get narratives. They get narratives. And you start repeating the memory and your memory becomes of you repeating the memory.

Wow. So it's like, you don't even really have the memory anymore. You have, you know how to say it. Okay. Didn't that happen with, with that one Kaczynski witness? Did it? With the Unabomber witness? Yes.

Interesting. Yeah, because that's why the first composite that was put out really ultimately wound up looking nothing like the actual guy. Oh, interesting. Yeah, there was a thing that, yeah, there was a thing where her memory was corrupted by a different description from somebody else. This episode is brought to you by Paleo Valley. It is not easy finding a snack that's healthy and taste. Good, but that's where Paleo Valley's 100% grass-fed beef sticks come in. You might be shocked to find out that most of the other leading brands you might grab at Costco,

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Give them a shot, and you'll see why everybody's hooked. Well, there's also the factor that the Unabomber was such a traumatic event that this person was probably super freaked out, which is when your memory is the worst. Interesting. Yeah, that's why eyewitness accounts of like murders and chaos, they're really bad. Right, right. They're really bad. Very unreliable. There's some really, really awful percentage about when, even when they wind up in a courtroom. Yeah. Like the, like the determining, like the final nail from the person, that guy, that it's like sometimes, it's as high as like 60%. Mm-hmm. that they're just wrong.

Yeah. And then they'll convince themselves that they're right because they've already said it. So then the ego gets involved. And then, you know, it's just traumatic events leave you. You're in a high state of anxiety and you're not thinking clearly. Right. You're freaked out. And, you know, like when they have events, like, say like 9-11, if you were anywhere near that and you saw like people jump off the buildings and fall to their deaths or like your memories.

of that are probably really clear because it was fucking crazy but your memories of people that you might have saw that were running away or maybe you saw a guy in a van and you looked fishy or maybe this or maybe that's like and then a few days go by and you're you probably haven't slept well you're all freaked out your memory's probably a mess it's probably filled with the news now and then there's other people's eyewitness accounts and and you know you don't know what the fuck happened. Right. You know, you see someone die. You see someone jump off a building. You don't remember that. But there's some stuff that it's just our, you know, this is one of the scariest things about transhumanism is that it's really appealing in the idea that they give

you a little hard drive in your brain. And now from now on, every time you want a memory, you can go just like, you know, you look on your phone, like your iPhone on this day in 2017. You're like, oh, look at us. That's cool. You're going to be able to do that in your brain. you know and the way that we're going to buy into it is because our memory sucks because that's how they're going to sell it to us yeah interesting yeah do you remember your phone number when you're a kid um no but I remember my address because it rhymed that's nice yeah it was 7212 Birdview Avenue Malibu you used to remember your phone number what happened it goes away because your memory sucks right I I know my parents number because they still have a

landline oh they're still rocking the landline yeah they are yeah and they have an answering machine. Whoa. Yeah. During dinner, they haven't really turned it down. Oh, and then people start talking in the background? Yeah. But it's just part of it.

That's wild. Part of the experience. They're rocking a landline with an answer machine in 2025. That is. Yeah. It's probably the way to do it. I used to love the answer machine. Would you come home, the light would be flashing.

Like, someone likes me. Right. Somebody called. Yeah. Yeah. It was cool. It was like you had a dog coming home to wait to visit you when you came home. Like, oh, look.

It's like induced Bigelow when it's like he's at his lowest point. The thing in the light is never blinking. I forgot about that. You have no new messages. Yeah, that was a wild time where you could get phone calls. That's the other thing is like you got famous before the Internet, too, which is a different world. It's a different world because there's not that many of you. There's way less famous people.

There's way more famous people now. Yeah. You got famous, like super duper famous at 21 years old. with no internet. Tripp out, yeah, I know. How does anybody expect you to come out normal? Jesus Christ. And you try, you can't really even explain to someone that wasn't around during all that.

You can't really explain what it felt like, because they look at it as the things that were missing, and there wasn't anything missing. Right, right. It was about having to really be engaged in everything you were doing. you know you had to show up to you know to gain to get a like you had to enter the building right right you know you had to go to on a talk show you had to attend to junk it you you know what I'm saying and you couldn't and nobody knew nobody knew what the behind the scenes of your movie looked like until you know years later on the DVD feature or the VHS feature

that they finally saw some of that stuff yeah it wasn't it wasn't all all access 24-7, 365, you know? And for some people, they can't leave it alone. They have to live stream during the day. They're live streaming from their trailer. They're live streaming in their car on the way home. They're like, yeah, what is that about? They're nuts.

They're just locked into this weird new world that we're living in. But is it, I mean, is it because there's genuinely people that are tuning in with enthusiasm that are looking forward to that live stream in the car ride home? or because the person, or is it a combination? I think it's those things, and it's also that thing that you said that you didn't ever get, they're scared of. You didn't ever get alone time. Just time to decompress and think. Just be by yourself.

No phone, no TV. Just fucking sit on the couch and just like catch your breath. Right. And they don't want that. They're scared of that. So they're just constantly engaged with something. I like entire days of that. Ooh, that's nice.

Alone on the couch. Yeah, watching TV. It's nice. It's nice to just shut off, right? It really is. It's all work, no play. Not good. Not good at all.

Not good. Bad for you. And bad for your work, too, because it makes you just kind of, it gets dreary. You don't have the same enthusiasm for it anymore. You know, it's like you need discipline, but you also need enthusiasm. You know what I was going to say earlier. Thanks. Okay.

All right. The memory just, you know, judgment. dropped another token in the in the in the in the slot um is that uh no it's you know it doesn't even connect it doesn't um let's find out well no then i i actually forgot it again how about that is that fucking nuts it's normal it's normal when you um when you first got platoon did you have any idea like what the fuck was going to happen i didn't i didn't is that for For people today to understand how big that movie was, because it was one of the very first realistic war movies. And I think very importantly, it was done by Oliver Stone, who was actually a veteran of the Vietnam War.

You remember in what you wrote down? Just that piece. Yeah, I'm not going to forget it again. Okay. Pardon. Sorry. But it was a different kind of war movie, you know? Yeah.

much in the lines of your dad's movie you know and that that was a very different kind of war movie as well yeah apocalypse from here platoon you know boots on the ground the script didn't read like it was going to be a masterpiece the script read like a kind of like a

docu drama sort of movie of the week. It didn't, you didn't read that script and say, oh, wow, okay, yeah, this is the one. People are going to really, wow, they're going to worship this thing. It didn't, the dialogue was very clipped and very, very specific. You kind of never really knew where you were in the script, in the scene descriptions. You know, the script was so lean. I think it was like barely 100 pages. Really? Yeah. So, but I didn't realize sort of what we were doing until we were actually doing it. Usually I can read a scene and get a sense of, you know, what my responsibilities are going to be or how we're going to break it down or at least, you know, how I'm going to see it on the screen.

And I couldn't, I couldn't do that with platoon because all the terrain, all the scenes, everything kind of felt very similar. you know yeah and the original title was the platoon you think it's as big a hit if he keeps the the yeah I don't think it matters it's a great movie

thank you this is a great movie it doesn't matter but we started to feel it as as we got deeper into it and and Oliver did something brilliant where he decided to film it in continuity like from page one

day one all the way to the final day was the final page and that and that gave us a chance that like when something was finished you were done with it and and you didn't have to know how you were going to react or how you already reacted to something that hadn't happened yet right and when people died in the movie they got sent home they were just like the next day they were just gone i guess he wanted us to feel that sense of just someone you know gone that loss that that you know sadness yeah i'm not saying that i would know how that felt in the real thing but we bonded really, you know, pretty, pretty, yeah, we were bonded in a way that, because we were the

only people that we had in the middle of that country, in the middle of that jungle, in the middle of that movie. So you really missed somebody when they were suddenly gone. I would love to ask, I mean, I've had it all over on a couple times, but I would love to ask him what it's like to make a movie about a war that he was starring in. And like, what kind of bizarre mental conflicts? Yeah, did he didn't get into any of that? Not really. I mean, he talked a little bit about his experience in Vietnam, but I don't think we really talked about. Did we talk about the Making a Platoon?

We got so heavy into the JFK assassination. We hardly covered anything else. Oh, got it. Especially the last time he was on. The last time he was on, they were doing that Showtime JFK documentary. It was a Showtime thing, right? Wasn't it? I think it was, yeah.

Yeah. Where there was a multi-part piece that he put together. Saw it. Yeah. His recall is insane. It's insane. It is. You have a conversation with him.

He's pulling up dates. He's got no... I mean, how old is Oliver at this point, Tom? Upper 70s? I just turned 60. So if he was... 78. He's 78.

78 years old. Rock solid memory. I mean, rock solid. Wow. The dude was just pulling up dates and names and Alan Dulles did this and... Wow. It was just like the entire Warren Commission report. He was like...

citing different passages in it and it's bananas that's deep yeah wow has he landed on like what can he can he point to or is it is it several factors can point to but there's a lot of people that wanted him dead and for sure there was a lot of fuckery going on with the warren commission for sure right there's a lot of nonsense with the autopsies there's a lot of nonsense with the single bullet going through both him and connelly and leaving more bullies and leaving more bullies fragments in Connolly's wrist and that magic bullet was missing the one they found. It's like bullshit.

Right, right. The story's filled with bullshit. And no one really knew how much bullshit it was until they had that video that they played of the Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera show. Yeah. When Dick Gregory came on and who was a comedian, which was pretty wild, came on and

had the footage of the Kennedy assassination. Everybody sees Kennedy's head go back into the left and you're like, what? What happened there? And you immediately apply just simple, common physics to it. Yeah. You know, especially anybody who's ever fired a weapon. Also, it clearly looks like he got shot in the chest, too.

Like when he grabs his neck. Right, it clearly looks like he got shot right there. And there's always that talk about doing a trache. They did a trache. But, you know, there's two different autopsies. Right. There's the autopsy in Dallas that says it's an entry wound. And then there's the autopsy in Bethesda, Maryland that says it's a tracheonomy.

Interesting. Yeah, two different autopsies. Make up your mind. Yeah. It also looks like by the time they got to Bethesda, they kind of glued his head back together again, or at least put the pieces back to take a photo of it. It's like more was missing from what they were talking about in Dallas than the Bethesda. That's the shot where the gloved hand looks like it's pointing. Yes.

There's a great book called Best Evidence by David Lifton, and he was an accountant. And he had some sort of assignment involving the Warren Commission report. And so what he decided to do is read the entire thing. And so in the reading of the entire thing, he finds so many contradictions, so many things that don't make any sense, that he starts becoming obsessed. And then he finds out how many people who are witnesses to the assassination wind up dying mysteriously. Right, right, right. It's off the charts. Yeah.

Off the charts. Like 95% of them. All those people that were hanging around, like a giant ton of them. Right. Died in car accidents, weird fucking. Who is the guy in the train tower? Getting Bowers, right? who is Bowers

He was the guy that saw Badge Man He saw people behind the Knoll He saw the exchange of the rifle He saw all kinds of shit He died I think he had a heart attack On a train track

And then Of course Also got hit by the train I could be wrong But it was one of those types of things But of course Yeah And then but wasn't it

Who's the guy Who's the guy who's standing at the When the curb explodes Like near the underpass Oh yeah That's the guy That's the reason why they had to come up with the magic bullet theory. Is it Teague?

No. What's his name? I don't remember. Did he die weird? Probably. I don't know if he died weird. But he was hit with a ricochet. Right, right, right.

And because they knew that the overpassed, that's why they had. That adds a bullet. Yes. They had to add that. And they go, okay, how do we fix this? Right. We said only one guy did it. It's only three shots.

So how do we come up with a reasonable excuse? And they came up with a magic bullet. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it was, Specter? I think it was our own specter. Yeah, I think it was his idea.

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You know, it was pretty easy to just bullshit people. And you see all the additional cameras, like babushka lady, for instance, right? And all that stuff, just confiscated. Yeah. Well, they had the Zerpruiter film for a long time. I think Time Life had it. And then somehow another day.

Dick Gregory got it. Was it ever released with missing frames? Wasn't there the jump cut when he goes behind the sign and then it jumps? Because didn't they take out the fatal head hit at some point? Maybe. And then tried to sell that. Perhaps. They probably did at one point in time.

But now, obviously, you could see the whole thing. And then it's also been AI enhanced. I know if you've seen the AI enhanced one. I haven't. No. It's grisly. It's even more gruesome. It's gruesome.

I mean, I think he was shot from multiple angles simultaneously. That's what I think. I think he was shot both from the back and from the front. And I think Lee Harvey Oswald, if he wasn't involved, he certainly wasn't innocent. He was probably the guy that they were going to frame it on. Right. But I think he was in on the whole thing. I think he killed a cop afterwards as well.

Tippett? Yeah, Tippett. Yeah. Have you ever read that thing about, because Tippett's nickname back at the precinct? was JFK to read this thing? Then they show the side by side of how much they really look like each other. Oh, really?

So they're saying he was the body they used for the transfer when they flew with the empty coffin, you know, all that stuff. Oh, God. Yeah, it's, I mean, it is so, there's so many just, you know, warrants to travel down.

Yeah. And there's so many angles to explore. There's too many. There's so many rabbit holes to go down. We were introduced to it as kids because dad played both. entities. So we were seeing documentaries at like, you know, I would have been 10 or 11, and Amelia was 13 or 14. And so we've been involved in this thing for a lot longer than

we should have been. Wow. Yeah. We had access to this stuff. And so it was just nuts that no one was brought to justice. And we know for sure more people were involved than Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald. There was more people involved. No one was brought to justice and they got away with it. We don't want to think that they get away with things like, killing the president. But they did. In broad daylight. Yeah.

And blaming it on a lone gunman, a lone nut. Yeah. Yeah. Who they already had a full description and raption and rundown and everything about. They knew everything about them. They printed articles about them before it was even over. Yeah. And then the Jack Ruby thing, where Jack Ruby goes completely insane in jail after he's visited

by Jolly West, who is the head of M.K. Ultra, who is, like, routinely dosing people with acid. Yeah. He cooked Jolly West cooked Jack Ruby's brain in jail and just left him insane. He's the guy from, what's the book? Chaos. From chaos. Yeah.

I actually read chaos before it got all the attention. Really? Yeah. A friend of mine gave it to me, and I was, I write, I'll read a couple pages, and I was like, oh. Yeah. Oh, okay. This is good. Yeah.

This is one of the best books. This is a different take. Yeah. But I'm curious how you felt. about the documentary they did about it. I didn't watch it. Okay. I thought it was going to be too quick.

90 minutes, I didn't think was like enough time. It's only 90 minutes, right? I thought it was the first episode. Oh, you thought it was going to be more. So I watched it sort of like a data gathering thing that you usually do with the first episode and kind of just seeing what the director's doing and what kind of stuff they're laying out early.

Yeah. So, and then when it ended and I didn't see that second episode with the timer, right? Uh-huh. And I thought it was a complete, I thought it radically underserved the book. Yeah, maybe they could try again. They need to, that needs to be like an eight part, two hour apiece series. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, because it's so nuts. The story is so nuts. Just the provable actual facts are so nuts that very likely Charles Manson was a CIA asset, very likely they had groomed him when he was in prison and taught him mind control techniques when people were high on acid, taught him how to be sober but pretend he's on acid and how to interact with these people on acid and shape their mind and even get them to commit murder. All of which is fact. Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, I would say

it's insane, but so much of it is, I don't want to say provable, but, but, but, but has enough supporting evidence to make a compelling case. And I love that the guy starts out just like a, you know, just kind of a normal celebrity assignment for Premier Magazine, right? Yeah, I've been on that magazine. I had that cover twice. My story didn't wind up like that. I think that it was a story for a magazine and it was just about the anniversary of the murders. Exactly.

That's it. That's what it was. You know, just give us a piece, you know, so people go, wow, crazy, 25 years later. Wow. Right, yeah. And then he gets obsessed. and he starts realizing, well, this guy was full of shit, and that guy was corrupted.

Oh, my God, look at this. And hold on, who's Jolly West? You know, like, what's MK. Ultra? This is a real Freedom of Information Act. Get the documents. Oh, my God. Operation Midnight Climax. The government was running whorehouses.

They were running whorehouses and using two-way mirrors and dosing Johns and filming them. And this has to do with Manson. Like, what the fuck was going on? And then you realized that it was all, a PSYOP to try to demonize the peace, love, and stop war movement. And what they really wanted to do is stop the anti-war movement and do something to curb the cultural change that was happening.

And so their strategy was to turn hippies into murderers. It kind of worked. It kind of worked. Yeah. It kind of worked. Yeah. I mean, it's a long way to go. Yeah.

But it, I think it had the effect they were looking for. Imagine if they didn't do that. Like, what kind of cultural change would have taken place? Because if you think about what happened between 1950 and 1960, it's like the world becomes a different place in 10 years. Between 1960 and 1970s, like, what? This world is crazy. The music is crazy. The culture is crazy.

The movies are nuts. Everything is wild. It's very psychedelic. And then Nixon comes along in 1970, passes this sweeping schedule one act, makes all mushrooms. and LSD, makes everything illegal, all to stop the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement at the same time when they're doing this Manson stuff. So it was a concerted effort across the board to stop the anti-war movement and to stop the civil rights movement.

They were like, we're losing control and power. And so, I mean, it was an evil thing to do, but you kind of got to give them credit because it's pretty brilliant. Like, they actually pulled it off. You think of serial killer, you think of Banson. You think of the family. Oh, my God, these hippies are murderous. Right.

A bunch of murderous freaks on drugs. Cutting women's babies out of their stomachs and writing pig on the wall. Like, this is nuts. Yeah, and they brought the Beatles into it. And our own goddamn government engineered it. They engineered, they stopped what was probably one of the most beautiful cultural shifts in this country's history. that would have organically still kept evolving into other things that would have would have blossomed out of it. Yes.

Yeah, we probably would have rethought government. We probably would have like rethought the type of people that we want as leaders. We would have rethought our involvement in foreign wars. There had been no support for it. We would have rethought what psychedelic drugs can do for you versus the bad aspects of them. We would have rethought everything. The music would have been a lot better. music took a big dip.

Yeah, it did. Music took a big dip after they got rid of the drugs that were good and brought in the Coke. But people do point to the death of the 60s occurred up at Cello Drive.

Yeah. Yeah, it was effective. Yeah. I mean, that completely demonized any peace, love, and, you know, any of that kind of movement, those people became a real problem now

because you're now connected to Manson. It was instantly zero tolerance. Mm-hmm. Like, overnight. It's kind of. nuts. Yeah. Kind of nuts that it was really all engineered by the government.

You know, it's really that in itself, in and of itself, is a terrible crime that they sort of engineered society to their benefit so that they could maintain control. And the way they did it is by getting a horrible con who had been in and out of jail his whole life and teaching him how to run a cult. Right, right. A murderous call. And setting up at a free clinic in the hate. Where my wife's mom went.

Oh. Yes. My wife's mom was a hippie. You have a connection to this. Yes. My wife's mom went, she was a hippie in Hayd Ashbury. And she went to the Hayd Ashbury Free Clinic. Treated at that clinic.

Yes. Wow. You know, that clinic didn't shut down until after Tom O'Neill's book came out. That clinic would have been running for over 50 years. So it ran until like 22? Yeah. Wow. When did it close?

It closed shortly after. After that book came out, they're like, hey, we're good. Let's get out of here. I could have gone there while I was reading the book? Yes. The CIA was running a fucking clinic. What a trip. That is so nuts.

And that clinic also connected to Jolly West. That clinic also connected to all sorts of other marijuana experience. San Francisco is where they were doing Operation Midnight Climax. That's where they had a brothel. These are the people that are supposed to be like, protect and serve look out for your best interests right right yeah these motherfuckers are creating Manson and completely shifting society and turning people into whatever the fuck we became in the 70s in the 80s yeah the book came out June 25th 2019 yeah and the clinic

closed July 2019 seriously yeah oh my gosh later like fuck we're we got busted that dude read the forward and was like guys we got a problem yeah they that's probably how long it took them just to clear the building out yeah exactly and try to figure out whether they're going to kill tom o'neal right right has he been on the show yes oh wow okay yeah yeah yeah what's he like is he's great yeah he's actually my good friend greg fitzsimmons he was his neighbor in new york okay when he first started working in this and then he became his neighbor also in venice like he's been his neighbor for like 20 years. So Greg's followed him from this entire journey. And Greg had been telling me about it for years. I'm like, when's your friend going to get that fucking book done? And then finally,

he says, tells me the whole story, how it took so long. He's like, you got to have him on. The book is insane. I'm like, let's go. Wow. So we had him on. And it was, first of all, I listened to the book first before I had him on. I listened to the audio version. I was like, this is nuts. Yeah. This is nuts. If this is all true, this is fucking insane. And, and, And it's all true. So they really did engineer a murderous cult of hippies. And almost used the clinic as a casting couch, as an audition process for which girls they thought would be the most moldable, vulnerable. Yeah.

Crazy. Yeah. Crazy. The CIA was doing that. It's just. I thought they were supposed to do. operate on foreign soil. I know they were, but you know, sometimes things get messy. But it's like they, you talk to like your average boomer who just watches cable news and reads the newspaper.

They never believe this in a million years. And they'll hear us talking about it thinking, come on, guys. Oh, you're out of mind. But they also will never read the book. No, never read the book. And then when things get proven, they never apologize. Imagine that. Never apologize for your baseless conspiracy theories that all turned out to true. Yeah. Because, you know, conspiracies are fucking real, okay? This, this conspiracy theory pejorative that they really started foisting on the American public during the Kennedy assassination was for that very reason. They wanted to make it ridiculous. Is that what the term was coined? That's what the term became popularized. Apparently the term existed before that. We researched this, right? Didn't we Google

the original term of conspiracy theorists? It's quite a bit earlier, but it was never like a thing in the public zeitgeist. It became a thing during the Kennedy assassination because a lot of people were questioning it because it looked weird. You know, everything,

even the people that hadn't seen this a pruder film, everything just seemed off. It seemed off. And there was rumblings amongst people that were there.

The big one was the shots from the grassy knoll. Many people talked about gunshots. And that one photo where there's like 15 people pointing to the same spot.

And you see smoke here where the bushes are. And it's not a good photo but it's good enough that you go, hmm, it's just too, it was too uniform, you know, people were, they all were pointing, we heard shots from back there, there is a thing that does happen, especially if you look at Dealey Plaza, have you ever driven through? I have, yeah, I've walked the whole crime scene.

It's weird to be there. First of all, it's so little. It's, you can't believe how close everything is. Yeah, it's real little. And that they, but that they sent him into that tight turn and put him into that convertible pickle jar. I mean, completely planned. And you watch the motorcycle cops drop back. Uh-huh.

Just drop back. Which is, there's something I read. Did you ever read the men who killed Kennedy? Uh-uh. I think it's Jim Mars. Do you remember Jim Mars? Yes. Yeah.

Did you ever have him on? No, I did. Oh, okay. Did he pass? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. He wrote Syspies, which was all about remote viewing.

Oh. Yeah, yeah. He's a trip. He was deep into everything. I go back and forth on that remote viewing stuff. I do, too. I do too. But there's something in one of his books, and I've never been able to find it anywhere else.

It's almost like this little detail was scrubbed from the Internet that the Morse code signal for victory right after the fatal headshot went out over every Dallas police radio. Have you ever heard that? No. Okay, I read that. This is disclaimer. I'm not coming up with this. This is not my original data. But, yeah, when I read that, that was just, that was creepy.

That's crazy. And I don't know that he would have just added that for color. That's not something you just throw out there. Yeah, that's a weird thing to add. Victory. Well, a lot of people hated Kennedy back then. It's hard for us to reconcile now today because we think of them as like one of our greatest presidents. Of course, because he got murdered.

We always love them after they get shot. Sure. But when he was alive, this was like half the country fucking hated him. And then there was the Bay of Pigs disaster. We lost a lot of people because Kennedy didn't give him air support. He wasn't told about the invasion until like last moment. And air support was crucial to its success. He denied air support.

A bunch of people died that weren't going to die. And so those guys on the ground, my friend Evan has a theory. My friend Evan, who owns Black Rifle Coffee, who was a ranger himself. I met him. He's the best. I love that. I love him in death. But he said, like, those guys, those are hard-nosed killers.

And if they think that they lost their brothers because this fucking piece of shit didn't give them the air support that they deserved, it was Kennedy's idea. And you tell them that you want to get that guy killed, like, oh, fucking sign me up. Those guys would do it. Interesting. He's like, those would be the type of guys he would have do something. something like that and they would probably tell you this would be a perfect place to do it. Right, right, right, right. That tight little turn.

Anybody who says, by the way, because conspiracies get, everybody gets binary on this one way or another. I believe this or I believe that. Anybody says that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't make that shot, has never shot a rifle. You're full of shit. If the rifle's on, it was not that far. I'm not saying he could do it a hundred times out of a hundred. Right.

But the possibility of him having that rifle ready, he's got a scope, he's got a rest. the car comes into view you roll the sight onto his back you squeeze off around and you get a headshot in there that's 100% possible I just don't buy it I don't buy it

I don't think he acted alone if he did do it he might have done it he might have shot at him he might have even hit him once there was other people he was the patsy and I think when he said

I'm just a patsy the way he said it was not like a guy who murdered somebody the way he said it was like I can't believe they set me up. Exactly. Exactly.

So I think he was in on a bunch of it. Sure. I just don't think he pulled the trigger. Right. Or if he did pull the trigger, he was one of many people that pulled the trigger. That's what I think. Yeah. But there was a lot of other people saying, oh, he couldn't have made those shots because the

rifle scope was off. That's, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about because I could get your rifle scope to be off in five seconds. Okay, if your rifle scope's perfect, is it zeroed in? Bang, I drop it on the ground. Try it again. Yeah. It'll be off by six inches at 200 yards.

You're going to move that thing. They're fragile. They require micro adjustments with little Allen wrenches and hex keys and shit. Right, right, right. They don't torque them too much. You get it dialed in perfect. On a $37 rifle. Yeah, on a rifle from 1963.

From the back of a magazine. Yeah, of course that thing can get knocked off. Easy. Like almost instantly you can knock that thing off. There is a thing about the tree, though. What about the tree? That he had to shoot through a tree. because what they've done, and a lot of the reenactments, you know, supporting that he was the lone gunman, they did cut out part of the tree that Kennedy's behind.

They cut it out for the reenactment? Yeah. Really? Yeah, so he would have a clear field of view. But he had a clear field of view for at least a brief amount of time. Sure. And that's all you need. That's all you need if you were good.

And if you practiced. And I'm assuming that if you're going to go shoot the president, you'll probably get used to firing off a few rounds. You're probably set up a target. So you're not going to just hope that your accuracy is still there for three years ago. Yeah, you're going to practice. Yeah. So if you're going to practice, you're going to be even quicker at wrapping a new round. Sure.

He could have done it. I just don't buy it. None of the evidence seems to point in that direction, including all the evidence that they try to fabricate. Like the magic bullet one is nuts. Anybody who's ever shot anything with a bullet who looks at that and believes that went through two people and broke bones. Yeah. That looks like it got sent into a swimming pool. Yeah.

It doesn't look like it ever hit anything. No, and I've had people, like, you know, debate me and taking the side of the magic bullet. They're not, they're, they're, like, look me right in the eyes and believe it. And I'm just like, okay, well, cool. This is where we have to just. They're out of their mind. Yeah, we have to walk away. They're out of their mind.

They don't know. I could show them, like, let's go take a bone from a cow. Let's set up a bone from a cow and I'll shoot it at 100 yards. One bone. Yeah. Just one. Just one bone. And let's take a look at that bullet.

Right. Yeah. It's not going to look anything like that. It's going to be all fucked up. And there's the fragments. There's missing fragments from the bullet that are in Connolly's wrist that are more fragments that are missing from the actual bullet. They're attributing to the wound. You can't.

It's just, yeah. But they did it. That's what's nuts. We can sit here and talk about it till the cows. Do you know about the palm print, though? No. Oh, that they linked the rifle to Oswald because of a palm print on the stock. Oh, they got it when they went to visit him in the morgue?

Yeah, they didn't get it until after the autopsy. Yeah. Huh, it wasn't there, and then surprise. How convenient. Yeah. Yeah. And also, like, says who? Says who his fingerprint was on it?

You could just say that back then. 1963. Right, right, right. We found a finger, but Oswald doesn't have a lawyer. No one's representing him. He's dead. Yeah. You know, no one's going to say, my client is innocent.

He's fucking dead, okay? Pin it on him. Nobody gives a shit. And everybody just mourned the fact that the president was dead. And then, you know, all of a sudden you got Lyndon Johnson full steam ahead with Vietnam War. Yeah. It's nuts. Yeah.

If you usually look at what happens after the major event, it's like it's, you know, it's, you Things got very different. Yeah. They got very different. That's when you really start to see, like, okay, yeah. Kennedy was trying to be a real president. And they were like, oh, none of that. Yeah, it was the Federal Reserve.

It was Vietnam. It was like all these big, like, really important things. He wanted to get us out. He wanted to kill the CIA. He wanted to do a lot of things. Yeah. And they were like, not today, sir. And then that's the real argument is like we haven't really had a president since Kennedy.

Everything after that has been the, the, the president's more of a speaker. Interesting. And the giant machine behind it continues to run exactly as it always has. Yeah, I mean, and just from where I said, there's not a lot you can do about it. There's nothing you can do about it. You could talk. But look, if they haven't done anything about the Kennedy assassination, you can't do shit.

No. You could put pressure on people, and you definitely can hurt their chances of getting reelected if people find out that, They're very disappointed in you for not supporting this or not telling us about that or lying about this or you were involved in that. Yeah, but other than that, like, there's not much, not much you can do. Yeah, that's why I don't really weigh in anymore. It's probably smart. So, you know, it just feels like, I don't know, there's wasted energy. It definitely is a lot of that.

But it's also like a show, you know. You could watch the show, hey, have you sure heard the, watch the latest episode of the Epstein Files? I was like, what's going on? Yeah, it turns into a, it turns into a parlor game also, you know, right? That's how my dad described the OJKs. He said, this is like the greatest parlor game ever. Right. You know?

Boy, I remember watching that verdict on TV live in my apartment with this girl I was dating. She was a really sweet girl, and she couldn't believe that he was innocent. Yeah. She didn't understand it. She was so confused. Yeah, it didn't lie out. She was like, no. No. No. How?

She just kept, she kept like putting her hands out her face. No. No. It completely torched her whole reality. Yeah. Yeah. I was on a on a mountaintop in Mexico doing a kind of a low-rent sci-fi film called The Arrival. I love that movie. Don't say that was a low-rent movie. I love that movie. You know who turned me onto that movie? Dave Foley. Dave Foley, who's a good friend. friend of mine from news radio. Okay.

When we were on news radio together, he fucking loved that me because this is a so underrated sci-fi movie. I'm like, okay, cool. Wow. And I checked it out. It was great. I loved it. Thank you.

Thank you. It was the first film that actually incorporated a mashup of puppets and CGI at the same time. Because at that point it was either one or the other. And the other hadn't fully really arrived yet. Right. You know, yeah. So that was.

was kind of cool. But no, we were, I was so hoping for the day off to be back at the hotel because everybody knew the night before that the verdict was coming, right? So we had to shoot this scene and there was a prop man. And he had the only, this is 95, right? He had the only cell phone and it had like half a bar. And it's, and it's starting to rain. And he's got his ear and his buddy's got his phone in LA up to the TV when they're about to read the verdict so we all gather around the prop man and we're watching him and he's kind of leaning to keep the signal to keep it to kind of keep you know connected and then we can see when he hears it he slumps a little bit right takes the phone from his ear and slams it into the

mud and screams. That motherfucker got away with murder. Wow. The voice echoed through the mist. It was gnarly. That's a wild scene. That's how I learned about the O.J. verdict. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Dave Anderson was there with me. He's a buddy I grew up with. He's in the book.

He's a two-time Oscar-winning FX makeup artist, you know? And so, yeah, if you ever run across Dave the rave, Anderson, ask him about it. The O.J. verdict. That's a crazy, just a crazy scene. Imagine a guy reacting like that. He was our only connection to it. Yeah. And everybody was so invested in this thing.

And it was really hard to go. And that was like, do you remember time of day that might have happened? Kind of late morning, sort of, or was it in the afternoon? I don't remember. I don't remember at all. We still had a pretty sizable day to shoot. And it was really hard to regain focus and feel like what we were doing. still mattered because there was a there was a giant just there was like a murmur in the universe

at that point you know like something it felt like something had been taken from us you know yeah yeah yeah yeah civility did you see the last um or the most recent uh oj documentary no it's um it's murder mayhem and blood i think it's got three Murder mayhem and blood Something murder mayhem and lies Something I'm probably way off with that title No

No it's actually But it's the latest OJ documentary Well I guess Manhattan will be the latest Yeah this is the one that was before that And it's broken down at the crime scene by two, like, expert veteran recreationists. Mm. Yeah.

It's a trip. Do you watch any OJ stuff that comes out? No. No, I try not to. Because it's just... It's just too weird. Okay. Do you think there was something else there?

No, I think he killed his wife. Yeah. And he killed Ron Goldman, and he got away with it. Yeah. And it's just nuts. It's just, you know, it's weird. You watch him on, like, naked gun and you're like that guy yeah that guy murdered his wife with a knife like what yeah he got

away with it and he was just golfing yeah it was a follow-up part that didn't really support anything about what he had claimed you remember when he was a rapper uh do you remember the juice is loose you remember that oh gosh i think i think i just will i willed that one out of my he had like a like a like a king's robe on and like there's a bunch of hot ladies around him okay okay it's coming back to me. Yeah, he made a rap song. Wow. Wow. Yeah, he was like embracing the heel role at one point in time after the guilty verdict or the not guilty verdict. Right, right. Yeah. And so he got into like rap. But I mean, probably just for just for a monetary grab. I would imagine. Let me

let you play it. Play the juices loose. It's so bad. It's is it off of YouTube? That would be It was part of a TV show I saw another clip recently Oh that's right He was like a prank show He was trying to prank people It was like probably pre Jackass

Yeah but I'm trying to think of the thing they had on MTV That they did with all the celebrities Oh punked Yeah yeah Got it OJ was doing that Everybody would just run away screaming He was the murderer

He did it to a lady He like walked up to her hotel room with a knife Oh my god That was one of his scenes Jesus Christ You Got Juice is what it was called You Got Juice Yeah

But I don't I'm trying to find this Also the music video Had a bunch of Naked ladies Yeah it was aired on like Paperview Oh

The Spice Channel or something like that Huh Remember the spice channel? Yeah But that whole thing Going from that verdict To try and going back to work There's a picture

It's not the video Oh my Yeah, choose the musical. Look at that. I remember one time we were filming news radio was in the middle of that North Hollywood shootout. Do you remember that? I do, yeah.

And we were watching it live on TV while trying to do a sitcom. And we were like, we probably should take some time off here. There's a fucking war going on, the middle of North Hollywood. Wow. Yeah, that was... I think that involved a lot of cocaine and steroids, too.

From the brothers. From the guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know they were definitely on steroids. Yeah. But I think there was probably some... Or meth. Something like that.

Yeah, I think meth would have kept them there for a lot longer, yeah. For people don't know the story, these guys, did they rob a bank? Is that what they did? Yeah, but waited. Yeah. Like, could have driven away. Could have left with all the dough. And they decided to get a shootout with the cops and killed cops, right?

Yes. I mean, and they got killed. A bunch of cops got hit. And the cops were, like, horribly outgunned. Oh, yeah. The cops had their nine millimeter pistols. These guys have fucking machine guns and bulletproof vests. Yeah.

Kevlar helmets. They had face masks. Yeah. Yeah. Now, do you support that when the dude finally kills himself, that it was a simultaneous sniper shot at the same time? I never even looked into that. Is that one of the conspiracies? Well, it's just, yeah, that's one thing that they claim.

That he got shot and shot himself at the exact same time? The exact same time. It's possible. But why would they, like, what does that? serve? Like, what does that... Maybe they were already going to shoot him, and he shot himself, and they didn't think he was going to shoot himself, and they pulled the trigger right when he did.

Got it. That's what I would guess, if that's the case. But it's not like they have to be let off the hook, because at that point, that dude has to be put down. Yeah. I mean, one of the guys had already been shot, and he was shot in the leg, and they didn't get him any medical help. They knew he was going to bleed out. You know, I think... I think that was the case.

I think he got shot, and it's from moral artery. Yeah, the first guy that says he died by... This is from Wikipedia. He died by suicide via gunshot to the head from his handgun simultaneously being hit by rifle fire from LAPD officers with run around striking and severing his spine. Whoa. The other guy got shot over 29 times

and died from blood loss. Wow. I mean, what are the odds that the... Crazy. That the thing with the... Yeah. It sounds like there were a lot of bullets were flying in his direction.

There were 2,000 rounds were found. Jesus, 3,000. Like, what is that way? Like, if you're carting that around and you've got a whole duffle of cash. Yeah, you must have a heavy trunk. Yeah. Yeah, that is bananas. Half was the police, but...

Wow. Imagine being in that neighborhood. I think that's where I move in my room. Two thousand rounds are flying in both directions. Well, the cops like went to a gun store, right? Didn't they? I think they did. Like, right when it started and they were like, whatever you got.

You know, give us your biggest. Bore rifle, you know, whatever you got. We'll take it. Yeah. How much ammo you got? I mean, how long did that go on for? About an hour? Wow.

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLR.com and ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellas lenses at your child's next visit. Wow. Yeah, then they, that's kind of sparked the debate for police to get more power. Jeez. Yeah, that was a turning point moment. And if you're a real conspiracy theorist, then you say, oh, M.K. ultra, trick those guys

and are doing that so that the cops can get better guns. And the cops could get militarized. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, this is the problem with conspiracies. People attribute them to everything. Right. And really get down the rabbit hole. Everything's a conspiracy.

Yeah, yeah. But then when they do that, they kind of, they harm the credibility of the ones that can really be, you know, considered for, you know, for how we know them to be, you know, after all the extensive research. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, there's real ones.

But I think that's also part of the reason why, you know, some really silly conspiracy theories get pushed. I think they get pushed by bots. And I think they get pushed by paid accounts. To water down the real ones, yeah. To make them look stupid and they're like, attach them, attach a really stupid conspiracy to one that's legitimate. Right. And then it discredits the legitimate. one. Yeah, it's almost like, you know, not to introduce this, but just from afar, it's almost like

a lot of the QAnon stuff kind of had that effect, just, you know, I didn't dig deep into that and don't, you know, and only know just the basic, you know, talking points about it. But one thing I did see that felt like a constant was that there was always, anytime they'd mention something that was just completely screwy it was followed up with the ones that we believe to be real. Right. You know, it's just kind of this big

just this kind of just put them all in the same Yeah, a stew of good stuff and bullshit. Exactly, yeah, and just stirred that caldron, you know. Yeah, that's a very convenient way to bury truth. The Q&N documentary on HBO was great. Into the Fire, that was called? Yeah, into...

I didn't see it. Into the storm. Oh, okay. It's really good. Is it? Yeah. It's a multi-part thing on all the people that were involved in 4chan and the creation of QAnon. Okay.

They think the original guy was, and they think another guy took it over after a while and took over the account. Got it. And it seems like they were just kind of fucking around at first. But it's not definitive. Like, he's got some really good evidence that points in that direction. But it's just hard to know. And, you know, everyone always thought that it was someone inside the White House. There was some, like, secret person inside the White House.

It doesn't seem like this documentary believes that. The guy I made this documentary, he pins it on one guy in particular. That's a tech nerd that seems to have all of the attributes of someone who could pull off a Q&on-type deal. Checks every box. Yeah, super smart, you know, Internet shit poster, you know, running 4chan, you know. And, like, that's the whole thing over there. It's like, get people to do stuff that's stupid. Right.

Like, they got women to free bleed. They started pushing this idea that you, you know, it's the patriarchy is making you wear a tampon. And you should just, your menstrual cycle should just flow in your pants and who cares. And this is like a sign of your strong femininity. It was just them being crazy. And then a bunch of women just adopted it. Wow.

Not for long. Right, right. It's gross. They were like, this is stupid. Yeah. Probably last a couple of weeks. But a bunch of women. But people are really susceptible.

You could get people to do that. Not everybody, but it's just like the Hayd-Ashbury free clinic thing. Not everybody's going to join your call. Right. But if you open up a free clinic, you're going to get enough, you know, lost children that come in through your doors. Well, they're going to need your legit services to start with. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. You've got to sort it out. Right. Yeah. It's just nuts. that that that's our government that's our our daddies our our government daddies the people that we're supposed to be looking to to help us lead a prosperous life and secure our standing in

the world and make sure we grow financially and these motherfuckers did all that yeah yeah well you know ultimate power right yeah yeah yeah in any form well they're bringing it back to stardom like that's a weird power to get somebody it's a especially when you're 21 years old start a yeah yeah it's a weird power weird amount of freedom weird amount of like people expecting you to be kind of wild sure yeah and um again that thing you talked about where you watch it happen to others and then suddenly it's it's you um it's it's it's a lot more it's a lot more entotre And then I would always think, okay, so why, why, how were they able to control it? Why didn't, why didn't I see them enjoying it at this level?

And it wasn't about, I'm going to show them the way they should have been doing it. it was just about hey guys okay cool no it's it's it it it it finally made its way over here and and it it can go to 11 you know and and and and and not burn the whole house down you know when it was still fun when it was still creative and and productive on some level you know um because it wasn't about uh it was still having to show up and it was still you know carving out enough time for the party, but also reserving enough, uh, you know, energy for the job. Right. You know, that's the balance. That's the balance. And some people pull it off. Some people, they're really disciplined and they pull off the work and then they pull off the partying. Right, right. And I was able to maintain that

for, for a long time, you know, and even when it flamed out, like those early rehabs and, and there was always like, there was a job like the day I got out. You know, scripts showing up in rehab, and it's like, they're just, they want you to get, they want you to get well, okay, they want you to get better. But, you know, as soon as you're out of here, you know, we got, we got some good stuff for you to look at. There's also, unfortunately, a romantic notion of a guy getting out of rehab. Interesting.

Right? Interesting. How many cop shows start with a guy who's down on his dumps, putting a pizza in a blender for breakfast? You know what I mean? Like, really, like, at his lowest of low points. right drinking and then maybe his daughter cries and he throws the bottles into the trash can and he's like i'm done and now he's back and there's a romantic thing of getting your shit together

sure yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like charlie's bad better than ever yeah you know yeah and it's uh it's everybody's rooting for you again yeah you know and they and they're expecting the the guy to deliver yeah with passion now real life experience he was a drug addict exactly yeah look at robert downy junior now. Right. Yeah. People love that. They love that. But the same thing was happening to Downey when he when he was in rehab or maybe when he was even in the pen when they, people were bringing him. I think he was, I think they brought him Ali McBeal when he was still in jail. And I don't think, I think he still got high after that. You know, and my dad would always be like yelling at the television. It's like, stop rewarding his, this behavior. Stop rewarding it. Stop rewarding it. Let

Let him sit in those consequences. Not out of judgment or out of punishment or just out of love, you know. To help him get his shit together. Yeah. If you keep letting them fuck up over and over again, they'll continue to fuck up. Yeah. Yeah. But if there's always a carrot, the day you walk out, you know, something to chase.

And a soft landing. Yeah. You know? That's what was really interesting about this, you know, this decade-long, timeout that I got put into, you know. Which, you know, at some point that the punishment has to sort of fit the

crime, right? And yeah, it was, it was, it felt like it had, it was a little bit longer than it should have been. Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember any murder charges, you know. But at the same time,

there's not a chance that I, that I could have done the two projects. that I've that wow the book came out yesterday and the doc comes out today you know um I couldn't have done either unless I had the kind of perspective and distance from all of that that I that I was able to to get to find you know you've been sober for how long seven years coming up on eight yeah yeah I'll be eight in December that probably helped a lot to be away from everything to for you to achieve that absolutely yeah yeah

Yeah, I mean, I was still doing things to, you know, just kind of stay in the mix a little bit. And, you know, I do signings. I do speaking engagements, do stuff like that. But it was also like, it's like as soon as I quit drinking, all my kids started showing up again. And, you know, Sam and Lola were living there. And then they'd cycle back with Denise and then Bob and Max would show up. And then Brooke would come back and like, okay, so he's going to be here. And then Lola would show back up.

So my house was kind of like, it was kind of like this. It was like a clubhouse, you know. And I write in the book that my vacancy sign, you know, for those children always hangs facing out, you know. So it was, you know, being called to a much more responsible and complicated set of responsibilities and order, you know, and just having to do stuff that they didn't care about, you know, a writing of a show or response to a movie. or any like popularity or IMDB you know stuff they they were just like you know with the basic needs and getting to school and help with this and so it was really cool to like suddenly just be that that's the only stuff that that that mattered to the people that matter the most and so and and yeah but you're right that none of that could happen if I was away on location or

or having to be at a studio every week. Right. But, yeah, I think it was about the time that it created, you know? So, and, and it's interesting that, that I'm not, I'm not like, I'm not looking at this as a comeback, you know. It's, I think it's a reset. I think it's a reset, you know. And I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't rely on anything. than I'd done before.

Never written a book. Remember done a documentary, you know? But to come back with two projects that everybody seems to be really excited about. Documentary is very entertaining. Awesome, thank you. It's very entertaining.

Thank you. It's really well done, like the ways to put together. And it's just, so the stories are fucking bananas. It's so bananas. The whole thing was just so nuts. But, you know, like I said, everybody loves a story

someone getting their shit together. And that's a great accomplishment of being sober for almost eight years. It really is. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's, people are going to yell at me because of how I deal with the AA and the book, and that's fine. I just speak to my personal experiences. How do you deal with it? That I tried it for a long time. I, for a combined 21 years and just decided that I had to give this a go on my own. So you just do it completely on your own. You don't have any person you call or any.

No. I mean, there's people that are sober that I still talk to and see. You don't have a sponsor or something like that. I don't. I don't. No. No. I know it does help some people. Of course.

And that's why I don't want to say that it's, I'm not recommending that this is another. Right. You're just saying your truth. This is how you do it. I had a very good friend who was an alcoholic who quit one day. He crashed his car, ran from the cops on foot, got arrested, and then he's like, what am I doing my life? I'm done.

He quit. Like that day. That there. Yeah. Never had a drink again. I knew him for 20 years after that. It happens. It can happen.

Yeah. Yeah. But I think that I do have the experience of all of that time in and around the rooms, you know. And that's not to say that I don't still remember a couple of nuggets. of things that still stuck with me that I still thought, you'd still see as valuable. Right. You know, but it's, there's, there's a line in the book that it's, it's, it's, it's hard to ask for help when, when somebody else has raised your hand for you, you know, interventions,

you're pulled into a thing, you're told to do this, and you're just, all you're doing is just counting the days. Yeah, that's the part of the documentary, too, when they, the first intervention, when you got brought into a room and everybody sitting there waiting. for you. You thought it was a party? Well, yeah. I mean, I was a little suspicious because it's 9 a.m. Why is Dad having a.m. birthday party? Right. Unless we're going to Magic Mountain, right? That's usually the time you leave. Right. That's usually for a seven-year-old, right? Right.

Yeah, no, that was wild. That is something that I can still see as it happened on the day. Really? Turning that corner in the hallway into my parents' living room and like, and my My brain is still trying to turn it into a birthday party. My brain, I insist that that's what we're there for, you know? That's funny. And it just, when it starts to dawn on you. Like, have you ever taken a sip of something that was in the wrong bottle? But your brain saw the label.

Uh-huh. And so it takes your body. Like a half a second. Yeah, to catch up to that's not. Those don't match. Uh-huh. Those don't match. Yeah.

Yeah, I have a story about that, but I probably shouldn't tell it on there. but um yeah and so that one didn't work it didn't work that way you had to do it on your own it it worked for a year it worked for a year but then like as is in the in the dock i'm at i'm at cage's house and i on on the anniversary on the one year i find that beer in his fridge i'm like well that's there for a reason yeah you know just caused this it's caused to celebrate that's not an accident yeah and just didn't even think Twice. Wow.

Just was like, ah, finally, boom. And now we're off to the races. We're off to the races, yeah. Wow. How did you get sober this time? I'd gotten off the drugs. Gotten off the dope, but you, when I say dope, that's always Coke. Never heroin.

There's never a heroin guy. I'd been off that, geez, probably over 10 years, you know. And so, I mean, more than 10 years, like sitting here today. So I hadn't fucked around with any of that shit for a few years. I was just, I just committed to drinking, you know. And then found that to be like the most unmanageable drug that I've ever tried to navigate. Drinking, drinking, yeah, drinking. More than cocaine.

Yeah, because there's never a time when you can't get it. You know, and when I had made the decision, then I, okay, I'm just going to drink. I treated it like I did drugs, you know? Right, right. But it's, it's really kind of, it's very accepted. And it's, it's very socially ingrained, you know? Yeah.

It's normal. Yeah, it's always Miller time. Yeah, you want to smoke a joint in front of someone, they might be like, hey, what are you going on here? Yeah. You want to have a drink in front of someone. Completely normal. Everyone does it.

Sure. Yeah. But so I knew the way my body was starting to react and the way I was starting to feel and just it just I couldn't feel it how I used to even at like really like powerful doses, you know. I just couldn't. And that that got depressing. That wasn't like, I'll just drink twice as much now. That was like, damn. The thing I relied on is now just, like, told me...

Yeah. Yeah. It's no. You have too much of a tolerance. Our relationship is now different. Oh. Yeah. And so there was a day, and it's in the book. And I, you know, I was a morning drinker.

I loved, you know, spiking my coffee. That's like, for me, it was like the best time to drink. I mean, you're not going to get shit done the rest of the day. But that's when I felt it. That's when I could still feel it was in the morning, you know? So I'm on like my third McCallin coffee or whatever. And my daughter, Sam, like, calls from, she's at the house and calls and says, hey, what time are we leaving?

Like, to go where? She had a hair appointment. And it was a Sunday, I think, or a Saturday. And I've never, ever mixed the cups and the wheel, ever. I've never had a DUI. How about that? That's awesome. That's pretty good, right?

That's very good. I just decided, like, a long time ago, like when I was like 17, that that was never going to happen. Good for you. And I was living in a limo back then. There was, you know, the occasional cab. But these days, these days to get busted for drinking and driving with the available transportation that is literally 15 choices in your hand. Right. There's no excuse.

Right. And so I called Tony. I said, Tony, well, you know, I can't drive. You've got to help me get Sam to this thing. And so he was like, I'll be right. He was there in 20 minutes. We got her to the appointment. It went great.

And there was a moment in the car driving back. And I describe it in the book, you know. And I could see her in two mirrors, the visor and the side view. And she was just kind of sitting back there. And I'm not saying that I know exactly what she was thinking, but I could feel what I, what I'm pretty sure she was. And it was just this thing about, you know, why it's, yeah, it's cool that dad did this, but why, why isn't dad driving again? Right. You know, why is there always.

Disappointment. Yeah. And it's not nothing with Tony. You know, he's been around forever and, you know, and. And, and it was so we got, we got back. from that. And I, and it was, there was something that I couldn't shake. It was something that stayed with me, just the images of her, this little 13 year old kid in the back seat. And her dad can't even take her to, like, just a basic, just like up the highway to a hair appointment.

Like that, that got, that was complicated, you know? Yeah. And I was like, what am I doing? And then I just sat inside, I sat inside of that for a while because it didn't feel good. good. And I thought, okay, what can I do to not, to stop feeling like this? The math is pretty simple at that point, you know. And I wasn't going to do rehab. I wasn't going to do a big dramatic, you know, life turnaround. I was just going to just make a decision and stick to it. And, you know, I took a few volume, drank a few beers. And then the next day just woke up and said I'm done and didn't care. I didn't, I made a decision. I wasn't going to care how I felt physically was just going to like just grit and bear. Yeah. How long it would take before you felt

okay? About three days. The story I had written that was going to be a month was just like that, that, that that that that was fake and it was and so and then it just coincidentally, um, it happened to be my oldest daughter, Cassandra's birthday when I quit. It's December 12th, you know. And it was just like, okay, that's all aligned. And then something else happened after that. Because everybody's going to get a little squirly. Like, you know, the problem with a guy like me is that, and people like me, is you're able to put things back together really quickly.

Right? Right. And kind of just kind of reassemble the pieces. So you're not as scared to go off the rails. Right, right, right. And so then I got a call, this is the post, you know, already had HIV for several years at this point. I get a call that there's a new medicine, right? This is about a month after the same thing, right?

And they're like, look, we want you to try this thing because it's a much smaller cocktail. It's much less toxicity and very few side effects. When they're going to do great on it, right? they said but you can't drink on it the other one you could drink your fucking face off like like you could you could drink like a pirate on the other one which they shouldn't have told me that you can you know and so um so I said okay great

so I tried that one and it was you know it was working great but they said okay if you can just stay off the booze it's going to keep working the light light light like it is you know so that this other thing showed up in addition to that like just in in concert with it so now I had a couple things going on you know let's keep this thing this this evil stowaway is what I like to call it let's keep that thing in the you know at bay and and let's you know rebuild every

relationship that matters in your life you know while you're still here did you have a revelation after a while, after you were sober for a while, where you stop and think, like, why was I getting so fucked up? Like, what was I, what was I trying to avoid? Or what was I trying to enhance? Or what, what was the purpose? Like, what was I, what bothered me so much that I couldn't be sober? Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, it, I think it was more avoid earlier like earlier in life like avoid the pressures of fame

avoid the fears of commitment or relationship or being exposed as a fucking fraud at some point you know I think that was earlier and I think enhance came later

that that trying to just make situations just feel more exciting or cooler or more, you know, sexier or, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, yeah. But it's interesting that you presented both sides of that, you know, avoid enhance.

Yeah. Yeah, I relate to both, you know. Yeah, I think that's a good thing to tell people, too, because everybody wants to hear the drugs. Like Bill Hicks had a great joke about nobody ever hears great drug stories. Right. You know, you only hear the bad ones, you know. And it is true. But the reason why people do it is because it's fun.

Like, it can ruin your life. But it's also really fun. That's why people do it. Sure. This is, it's important for people to know because you don't want them to think you're lying to them, you know. And for them to hear you sober and happy and go, okay, that's possible. You can get there because this guy's admitting what getting high was.

You know, like there's a, there's a. scene in the documentary where you're talking about the first time you smoke crack where this girl's giving you a blowjob while you're smoking crack and it was like the greatest feeling of all time yeah like yeah like I think that's important to say that hasn't been topped I probably shouldn't say that I don't care I don't care yeah that hasn't been top have you ever heard Hunter Biden talk about crack I haven't no who's on that channel 5 show and And he gives this ode to crack that made me want to immediately go smoke crack. Seriously?

Yeah, because Hunter Biden's a very smart guy. I don't think people think of him that way because of the laptop thing, but he's very intelligent. Right. And very articulate. So when he's explaining, like, the effects of crack and how different it is and how incredible it is and the euphoria of it, and it's like literally saying that he's like getting the itch while he's sitting there sober, you know, working on his sobriety,

trying to keep it together. Interesting. After all, publicly shamed for being out of control and talking about crack like a lover that you lost in a drowning accident. Wow. It's crazy. I get that.

I get that. That makes sense. I bet you do. There's a moment in the dock where I tell the Sandy story. Yeah. And I say, wow, that one. actually got me kind of that I could feel that

yeah yeah that's the problem the problem is that's the problem yeah the problem yeah the problem is did you know you don't have to did you ever try it or no I never even did coke oh no okay no when I was in high school

I have a good buddy of mine and his cousin was selling coke okay and his cousin who was super normal I knew him forever great guy super cool guy all the sudden he became weird and pale and lost all this weight and it was like he got bit by a vampire and him and his girlfriend were selling coke and they were just watch TV and do coke and they had like this attic

apartment and it was like he had gotten bit by a vampire that's how it felt like to me it was like he just lost his whole life to coke and then I saw some other kids that had coke problems around me where they were just dying to get coke and I was like this is a bad drug and back then I think it was actually coke. You know? I don't even know if they were like 80% of it. Yeah. In the 1980s, I don't know if they were cutting it with anything. But I made a decision at one point in time my life, no, I don't want to have nothing to do with that one. That one seems to rob people's lives. Wow. And you just stuck to that. Yeah, it just seemed to me like that one can make you a loser. And then did you roll in circles over the years where it was prevalent? Yeah, I knew some people

that did coke. It never worked how well. I didn't know anybody who did coke who like kept their life together everybody who did coke was like barely together barely hanging on always off the rails right there i think there's like one guy one guy out there some superhero he keeps it together maintained it all those years was was jack nicholson oh yeah i think he's like the only guy right i mean do we know of anybody else well they might not be public about it right you know but what about the rumors that jack always traveled with like a doctor have you ever heard this Have you heard these stories? No.

No? Oh yeah, that he's had a doctor that carried his coke or distributed. That's amazing. And only gave him just what he needed. Oh. Yeah, no, I don't know. That's a movie star shit right there. Exactly.

You get a doctor with a fucking leather satchel to carry your coke around? Yeah, and he's just close. I'd make him wear a stethoscope everywhere you go, bro. Has to. You need to have a stethoscope on. Everybody's got to know you're legit. Yeah, but that's like that's one of the. great like 80s rumors about jack was the guy that makes sense but then you'd be around jack i was

only around him a few times but then you know it was cool as hell and you're always kind of looking like all right who's the bag man who's his guy right right right where is he you know or who's the bag man for that night you know yeah like was it a team of doctors that rotated dangerfield party till the end he uh yeah he did he kept that trader rolling yeah he did down down yeah yeah we lived there We lived in the same building for a while. You in Dangerfield? No way. It's that building in the book called the Wilshire on Wilshire.

Oh, wow. Gosh, I maybe saw him twice. I got in the elevator with him one time. And we'd seen each other out but never really had like an elevator moment, you know? And he goes, hey, kid, how you look great? And he's like, he goes, hey, he goes. Look at that. Look at you guys together with Kittison.

Wow. But in the elevator. He looks funny just in his photo. Just in the photo, you start laughing. Doing nothing. He was so good, dude. I can't tell you what happened that night. I don't know where we were.

But it looks like the jacket is definitely at circa 89.90. That looks like a backstage something that's on my jacket, right? Yeah. Probably had a poison concert or something. Perhaps. So we're in the elevator. He says, hey, what are you, what are you, Puerto Rican, right? And I said, no, I'm, I'm Spanish-Irish.

And he says, ah, you don't know whether to start a parade or start a war. And it's like, doors open and he just walks out. He just had that on standby, or built it in the moment. He probably built it in the moment. Yeah. And I was just like, so I can't really ever describe my heritage without hearing his voice, you know, start a parade or start a war. That's funny. I'm just like, wow.

Just left me with that gold, you know? We have his handwritten notes at our comedy club in the green room. Yeah, for one of his tonight show appearances. We have his handwritten notes framed to all the stuff he's going to talk about. Okay. It's pretty cool. Wow. And would he stick to?

Yeah, yeah. It was like his jokes, and he had like the punchlines for like accented bold letters. Oh, seriously? Yeah, he wrote it all out darker. So he was like super organized. Yeah, super organized. Damn. Well, he stopped doing stand-up for a long time.

and he was selling aluminum siding. And then he made it again when he was much older in life. He came back. And the thing that happened was from the time he stopped doing stand-up to when he went back to having a regular job, he never stopped writing jokes. Like, his brain just worked that way. So he was just always writing jokes. So he was sitting on a treasure troll. Yeah.

Wow. Yes. And he just fucking stormed the gates. When he came back, everybody's like, where's this guy been? That's amazing. Yeah. Wow. And then he became huge.

Back to school. and the Ronnie Dangerfield HBO comedy specials. It's epic, yeah. Oh, he's one of the all-time greats. So he came back doing stand-up. I think he was in its 40s. Got some heat again, and that activated the films? Yeah, well, the stand-up, he didn't have any heat before, but when he quit.

You know, he was just kind of like getting by and doing all right and got a job, quit. I think he might have quit for 10 years. Wow. Yeah, and then the whole time he's writing. And then he's like, fuck it, I got to do this, and then got back into comedy. Wow. I hope I'm not fucking that story yet, but I think I'm accurate with that. See if you can find it.

Make sure that's true. I'm 90% sure that's true. But I know that he didn't make it until he was in his 40s. And I told this the other day, but I'll tell it again. I used to work at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts. I was a security guy there. Okay. And I was backstage by the outside of the backstage.

and Randy Dangerfield would go on stage completely naked with a bathrobe on. That's what he would wear. And he was wearing a bathrobe backstage with slippers and just walking around. It was like, this guy's wild. And they're like, he goes on stage like that. I'm like, shut the fuck up. Was it partially closed at least? Or it was just wide open?

Yeah, it was closed. He wouldn't let everybody see his dick. But if you went in the green room, you were seeing his dick. He was sitting there. He would just sit there. Wow. He could be hanging out and didn't care. He struggled financially for nine years.

He was one port forming as a singing waiter until he was fired before taking a job selling aluminum siding in the mid-50s to support his wife and family. He later quipped. So in the 1960s, he started reviving his career. Oh, damn. Yeah. So somewhere close to 10 years. Still working as a salesman by day. He returned to the stage performing at hotels in the Catskills Mountains, but still finding minimal success.

He fell into debt, about $20,000 by his own estimate, could get booked. Dangerfield came to realize what he lacked was an image well-defined on-stage persona that the audience could relate to one that would distinguish him from other comics after being shunned by some premier comedy venues

he returned home where he began developing a character for whom nothing goes right isn't that crazy wow wow damn oh look at this during Roy's comeback bid

who's Roy when he was 19 he was Jack Roy Oh, wow. He had to change his name. He had to become Rodney Dangerfield. Oh, wow. Because people were recognizing it.

I want to use that checking in at hotels from now on. Wanting to distinguish himself from the longtime patrons who might have remembered him from the 1940s, Roy asked club owner George McFadden to change his name. He came up with Rodney Dangerfield. Wow, he didn't want people to remember him as Jack Roy from back in the day. He didn't like his old act. Wow. Wow.

Wow. He said, I don't know where it came from. McFadden may have taken it from the Jack Benny program on NBC Radio, which first used Roddy Dangerfield as a character's name in 1941. Riki Nelson also used the pseudonym in a 1962 episode of The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet. Wow. That's crazy. Man, Ed Sullivan's Show, 1967. Wow. That's when he popped again. That's amazing. Wow, go get him. Yeah. Maybe he didn't know whether to start a parade or start a war. He was a fun guy. I knew a lot of people who knew him.

I didn't get a chance to meet him. I saw him once at the laugh factor. I ran into him. I said hi, but that was it. I never really got a chance to talk. So you did have a moment. Yeah, that one moment. Okay.

Yeah. He was just leaving the stage. He was outside. And he had some hot milk with him. Awesome. Thank you. I was like, you go, Rodney. why not why not

I think it was probably his wife he's his wife who donated us these these handwritten notes and also the photograph of them too it's pretty cool it's just there's a few guys like that

that you know without them you always wonder like where would comedy be like where would it ever turn up like so many people like prior and him and Lenny Bruce so many people that just like

changed everything carlin carlin yeah so many people just change kinnison sure they changed the whole thing but dangerfield was one of the rare ones that introduced new comics to people like those that's where everybody found out about kinnison so everybody found out about dice clay dine marera right lennie clark all these guys robert shimmel they all started out on the rodney dangerfield HBO comedy specials wow yeah so he would have like he would like have his favorite comedians he would just have like a show where he would like introduce his favorite comedians but he'd have to scout them at the clubs he would go see him so he'd just go out and he had his

own club in new york city okay field's okay yeah wow but he was you know he was interested in promoting comedy too you know it's just a fucking amazing guy that's such a cool moment you had with him i can still i can see it i mean it's like it's there's nothing tricky about that memory you know What was it like being with your dad while he's filming Apocalypse Now? It was a lot of that in the book. How old are you? I was, I was, I went there as a 10-year-old. Yeah, I had my 11th birthday there.

It's been a combined total of eight or nine months there. And that was going back and forth, you know. It was, it was just, it wasn't just another country. It was another planet. You know, we'd seen, you know, different parts of the world traveling with him, you know, Mexico, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, places like that, you know. But then you get to the Philippines and it was just, you just got a sense that, wow, this is all going on at the same time that we've been in Malibu, like, kind of, you know, having fun and just doing. cool shit and so you visit a place like that

and get in the middle of it and engage in this entirely just this just a new such a surreal reality and then oh wait a minute they're here to make a movie and it's about a film that

it's a film about a war that barely ended like a year ago right? 14 months ago when it's Saigon fall It's 75, right? I think so. Yeah, and they're, I mean, it was like right at the tail end of it.

And so, yeah, it was, we, you know, we were able to do enough stuff like recreationally, you know, that there was a lake and you could water ski, you could fish, you could do those kind of things if you didn't want to go to the set with dad. But once you went and saw the set where dad was, you didn't give a fuck about water, sports or fish or anything because what what what what they built and what they were trying to create was uh was was was mind blowing because you know cobala built Kurtz's compound out of practical materials it wasn't like you know like like plaster covered chicken wire and rebar these were like you know two ton boulders yeah they brought in and started stacking in the jungle and then a lot of it

would start sinking couldn't build a foundation in a river bank, right? Right. But then just the mix of people and the talent and Dennis Hopper and Brando and Duval and just it was

every day felt completely unique. There was not, there was no you'd go to the set and you were going to see something completely different than what you saw the day before. It was wild.

Wow. Yeah, and I gravitated towards this gentleman named Fred Blow who I mentioned in the book. He was the key makeup artist, you know, FX guy. And so he was building all the prosthetics for all the carnage you see in the movie.

You know, so I'd walk into a shop and there'd be arms and legs and heads. But I knew it was all fake, you know? As a 10-year-old, when you start seeing how it's made and you know so so gore um i think i write in the book um was never gore in movies was was never emotional it was it was technical hmm you know but but but still kept me really curious about about how it was done and and just the the the the artisans behind it that could create those effects how long were you over there

for a total of eight months wow maybe nine you Yeah, and it was three... At 10 years old. Yeah, it was three at first, and then maybe four at first, and then we went back, and then dad has the heart attack, and then we went back and stayed for like another four or four months, yeah. So, yeah, it was... And people say, so, you know, growing up on sets,

you must have, like, dreamed about being an actor. And I'm like, yeah, until I got to the set and almost killed my dad, you know? That's not a job. You're just going to, like, wrap your arms around and say, When can I start? You know? Yeah. But it also, it, it, it, just the scope of the filmmaking was really exciting.

And, you know, I didn't really understand it as a 10 or 11-year-old. But I knew, I knew there was something about it that required a much, you know, closer look. And I had a very keen interest in just. you know what it what what what what what what what would it take to like build this that you know this reality this fake reality oh but wait the subject is based in reality but everything else around it is so that's a very strange experience for a 10 year old it is yeah such a grand scale exactly when it becomes what apocalypse now became right because it was like a culturally defining moment.

Yeah. I mean, it's a movie that it kind of eclipses all other war movies. It does. It really does. Yeah.

I don't think there's been a film like it before or since. I think... No, it's a true masterpiece. It really is. Yeah. And there's no computers. There's nothing generated.

It's all had to be there on the day. And when you watch That, you know, when Kilgore takes the beachhead, that chopper assault, I mean, when you look at just what they had, what they committed to to bring that to the screen is just, it's impossible. And then you see some of the documentary stuff about, he was like, those were on loan from the Philippine Army. And then like midday, they had to go fight the rebels somewhere else. And they told Francis, we got to leave them with the choppers. And he's like, I have 18 cameras set up. The whole, the river is filled with bombs.

Where are you going? We'll see you tomorrow. Wow. Stuff like that. Yeah. Wow. Pretty wild. Yeah.

But that must have like, for you, like to eventually become an actor in platoon, that had to be kind of surreal. How does that happen? Right. How does that happen? How does that happen 11 years later? Yeah. Yeah.

Right? Or 10. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. because I did Platoon at 20. Right. Yeah.

So how do I go back to the same country? Ten years later. Ten years later with the same subject, right? Right. Narrate the fucking thing. And then it's elevated to be on par with the one that. It's one of the only films that gets mentioned in the same breath as Apocalypse now. Right.

Right. It's a much bigger fan of Apocalypse. than Platoon, and that is primarily about just the scope and the complication and just what, you know, difficulty factor. Yeah. Difficulty factor. Well, it took forever, right? It took forever, yeah.

How many years did it take? It was like eight or nine years, right? It, I don't know when Francis conceived it. it came out in 79. I think it, did it come on in August of 79? How many, let's just Google, how many years did it? August 79. How many years did it take to make Apocalypse now?

I think it went way over budget. Oh, it did. Oh, yeah. And by today's standards, that's like a, you know, it's like a Fox Searchlight budget. Right. You know? And Lawrence Fishburn was like, what?

How old was he at the time? He started the film at 14. And it came out in 79. It was originally due to be released on Copp's 38th birthday of April 77, so it took two extra years. Wow. And imagine so. So when did the project start? I mean, varying times of discussions.

Casting started February 76 is when Steve McQueen dropped out. So it's not as many years as I thought it was. They shot with Harvey Kytel for a few weeks as Willard. Did you know that? Really? No. Yeah. Yeah. And then Francis, it's just what he made the wrong choice.

Oh, wow. He was doing it, you know, whatever he could. But Francis just saw it differently and had met dad during the Godfather auditions and said, let me meet with Marty. Wow. You can tell people that don't really know my dad that well. call him Marty. I run into people on the street and they're like, hey, give Marty my best.

And I'm like, who the fuck is Marty? People call him Martin. No. They know I'm better, you know. Well, people that pretend to know someone always like to throw a Y on the end of it makes it look you're tight. Interesting. You know?

Yeah. So I would be like, Chuckie. You're still Charlie. Right, right. But I would be like Joey. Joey, my gosh. I could never think of you. and Joey.

Yeah. No. But imagine this with Apocalypse that, so I spend that much time, there's all that shit that happened.

I even brought home like props and things, you know, severed hands and Iffigau jewelry and all this cool shit, right, and all these great stories and then didn't have

anything tangible to back any of it. I mean, mom took a lot of photos, but like nobody could go to the theater and then see, oh yeah, Charlie talked

about that. Oh, yeah, he was there that day. Right. He had to wait. And when you're that, you know waiting two or three years like waiting a decade right so that was that was kind of a trip but when I saw it at the Center Arbidome in 70 millimeter you know

and it's like man when those choppers when you hear them you hear just they're they're they're they're all around you they're a film will never open like that again and have that kind of an impact did I mean did you see it at the dome when you first saw it no no No. I don't remember where I first saw it. I first saw it, I think, on a regular TV at home. Oh, shit. Okay. You know, because I was too little to watch it in 79. Is that what it was?

Maybe I saw it when it came out on HBO or something like that for the first time. When I really got into it was when I got a home theater and I got surround sound and I got Apocalypse Redue. The Apocalypse Now Redo, the newly mastered one. Got it. Okay. it's fucking sensational so you have you finally had that experience yeah oh my god it's so good i was like this movie is wild it's so well done and it's just so epic like for you to have been there live while they were putting that together and then to see it all piece together i mean that had to be an insane experience well and and and a lot of it was a surprise seeing it on the screen because like

I talk about in the book, not so much in the dock, it was hard to get close to the action on Apocalypse because of the way the sets were constructed because of the way, you know, Francis had everything lit. It was super claustrophobic like in, you know, Curtis Temple and compound and places like that. And, and it was also fucking dangerous to be on that set. Right. You know what I'm saying? Snakes and shit and just like a lot of weird people.

And so. Yeah, Francis is just like, I'm one, come all, you know? Wow. But, yeah, so then it's like I wasn't there for any of the chopper assault. I was, I could see Hopper at a distance in that outfit with those cameras walking with that. I couldn't hear what he was saying. So to then see that scene where, you know, dad first steps off the boat at the compound and Hopper is an incredible monologue. Yeah.

You got the cigarettes. That's what I've been dreaming about. And it's just like, so to have that. that kind of, that, that, to have been there that long and still be a completely fresh cinematic experience was a trip. Did you ever get imposter syndrome, like when you were doing Platoon? Did you ever get like, how the fuck am I here? Because it's so quick, between you being 10, being in the jungle while they're filming

Apocalypse now, to you starring in Platoon. Had you settled into that? Or were you ever like, how the fuck do I deserve this? One of the things that John Cryer says in the documentary thing I imagine, he might be around to something. It's very insightful. Yeah. It's very insightful. Yeah.

He said that you probably feel like you don't deserve all this, so you fuck it all up. Sure. He's not wrong. He's not wrong. But, and then I had a comment in some interview the other day. And I said, well, what the fuck, John? And you kind of like laid that on me like, you know, a couple decades sooner, man. Great advice, however.

A little late. Yeah. Yeah, but you can't tell anybody that. They have to kind of figure it out. They do. But the thing about Platoon and when it happened, the good news is that I had done enough film work, you know, not like super memorable films except maybe parts of Red Dawn, I think, are pretty memorable. just, you know, what the film kind of was, you know, what it stood for, what was about. I think parts of Bueller were kind of memorable versus Bueller, right?

Sure. But, yeah, so it was just sort of getting more comfortable in front of a camera, more comfortable sort of, you know, being able to think on film and actually, you know, breathe on film. I know that sounds kind of like actor schmactory, but it's actually. actually a thing because you're going to talk about controlling your breath in every other area of life sure right it's the same as true uh as an actor yeah for sure even doing the show even doing two and a half for that first scene I was I was usually off I was usually like about to make an entrance from somewhere and I'd be back there and chain smoke I know you have Marlboro rads and just trying to figure out the first scene but then when you'd hear the

you'd hear the you'd hear the stage go quiet right someone else you know speeding, sound market, and then if I could get that last breath to go to the bottom, I knew this first take was going to be awesome. When the breath stopped about, like, at the sternum, I was fucked. Shallow breath. Yeah. Because then you can't, then you're chatting in the thing. And then, yeah, and then that first take is just a pancake, which sucks because that's

the first time the audience is going to see it. Right. You kind of want that one to be, you know, if there's a cute girl in the crowd, that's the one you want her watching. Yeah. Not the second one where she's already heard the fucking jokes

and now you're just doing whatever. Right. Now you're like, oh, this show sucks. Exactly. Yeah. The live performance thing is weird because they don't really do it anymore.

I mean, I don't think there's very many shows that still do that kind of a sitcom in front of a live audience and multiple cameras. There's very few. I think Tim Allen's show still does. What is that on?

Is that on Fox? I think it's ABC. Yeah. So he still does a traditional multi-camera. Yeah, because a guy I worked with, a friend of mine is on that writing staff. God, they used to be all over the television. I know. They used to be tons of them.

Oh, I think Chuck's new show on Netflix, it's called Leanne, Lorraine, shit. Leanne, yeah. I think that's a live audience. Mm. You know. Okay. So they're still doing some. yeah they're fun it's fun when when it works you know yeah it's like it's it's a missing

genre in today's culture you're right you're right most of what was on late at night exactly at nighttime we're right when you got done having dinner yeah yeah sit down and watch friends or you would sit down and watch Seinfeld or two and a half men or you know comfort yeah yeah yeah yeah we um my family binge watched uh big bank theory i never watched it when it was on the air we binge watched it. Seriously. It's a good fucking show. Yeah.

It's a funny show. They were... It's a funny show. Bullshit. It's a good show. Right on. Solid show. Right on.

Yeah. That kid, kid, that young man, Jim, right? I had some of the most complicated dialogue that anybody's ever been saddled with ever. Yeah. He's the first autistic star of an action show or of a sitcom. There you go. Yeah. Yeah.

Where you're kind of celebrating his emotional disconnection. Yeah, but delivering it like rain man, you know, and just with laser, laser precision. Yeah, it's a really well-written show. It's very funny. That guy, Chuck Lurie's, how many fucking hits? That guy's had a ton of hits. Yeah. Maybe more than anybody.

Probably. The sitcom world? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Glad you guys are friends again. Yeah, so am I.

So am I. No, that sucked having that out there, you know. You know, I did finally actually remember that fucking thing, and I'm not going to, I'm not going to. Oh, okay. Yeah. It's the other component to that freaking tour, to that meltdown to that thing. There was a moment when I was only in rehab for like, I don't know, three weeks or a month. It wasn't like one of those extended stays.

It was just like a, you know, just like a quick little. A quick little, like a spin dry, whatever they call that. And I got the call. We want to renegotiate the giant contract for season eight and nine. nine, you know. And I was on the phone. I said, I don't, I don't think so. And they're like, what, you don't think you're going to get paid? I'm like, no, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think we should do it. I'm not, I think seven is like, you know, mantle war seven, some other cool sevens, you know, I, I don't think, I think seven is like

plenty. I think we've, I think we've told all the stories that we can mine from that, from that Malibu House on the beach with those people. And they're like, no, no, no, you're understand man this is when it all like this is when it turns into like a legacy play for your fucking kids and their kids and that and then the part they always leave out is an and our cut yeah yeah that's the big part yeah and i and i said on the phone yeah and mark and i have talked about that talked to me on mark berg my manager and i said mark if i go back there man it's going to go really fucking bad i just know it he's like well you're you're you're projecting that i said i'm not projecting shit, man. I'm just, I'm just smarter enough to know how I feel about it now. I got a little

bit of clarity in this month I'm in the thing. And I said, if I, if I go back there, I just, I got a, I got a bad feeling, Mark. Why going back to work would send you off the rails? Just that I had run up against the thing that I had lost passion for the show, I had lost passion for the process. Okay, so that if you went and just did it just for the money, you would find some ways to stimulate yourself. Exactly. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that I would have to do something to enhance. I said that about a lot of guys that got caught on shows that sucked. I knew a lot of guys who got caught on shows where they were getting paid,

but they did not like the show, and it was like a bad sitcom. And those guys all went crazy. Those guys all started doing a lot of drugs, or they started spending too much money or something. They did something to distract themselves because they did not like. what they were doing and they didn't feel satisfied right yeah but they were getting so much money right they're like what am i going to do i'm getting a hundred thousand dollars a week i'm like oh god yeah what do you do you can't quit i was i was making 54 000 an hour that's pre-taxas

so was i was i said no to season eight and nine i'd be like do i'm saying i'm saying right I'll have to do I'll work Dangerfield's Roe at that point Let's go No but No that that was after I I got kind of Crowbarred into it

You know Why not crowbar I'd ultimately say yes I got on that You know But it was just I was just the wrong guy In that moment

In that pocket of time To like Give that much fucking money to man Right You know Right right Right a bunch of girls over and then just say pick one and then you did that other thing where you had

that other show after that you got paid like a ton of money in advance for right um you're talking about anger management yes uh no it's supposed to get it was it was it was it was called a 1090 yeah it was a crazy scenario how they suck you into that is they say look you're not going to get a ton on the on the front side but you're going to be you know you're you know you're You're going to own a third of the show. You're like 40, 37, 38% of the show in perpetuity. So we're going to do 100 episodes, and it's the South Park model. That was the first 1090 that really just blew it up, and everybody got fucking rich.

So you do these 10 episodes. You do a 10 episode pilot. And then if you hit, if the average number of those 10 episodes comes in at, like, I don't know, like above a four, or like a 5-1 or something that it's like a share, right? Then it activates the next 90. And so then you're doing those 90 to have a sellable syndication package that will just go all over the world and, you know, do what syndicated sitcoms do. And so you've done it, you know, and, you know, when you say not a lot on the front side,

you're still, you know, still getting a buck 50 an ad. you know 200 that's pretty good money right um but it's not but you kind of you kind of eat it on that side knowing that it's an investment for right the other thing to to pay gangbusters so you did you guys you did the 10 episodes and then you got to do all of them yes so you wanted to do in a hundred yes but you did him in a short amount a short period of time two and a half years that's crazy i know i know yeah and i was i was not ready to go back to work yeah and that's the thing i talk about in the book, the only reason I did because I wanted to show those guys across town

that I was horrible again, you know? Right, right, right. And that is not, that is not any way to, any mindset to, like, lead the troops. And it, you know, again, it started pretty cool and did the 10, it was great, you know, doing some pretty good work, and the shows were smart and funny.

And then we got into that 90, and it was about, it was about 20. No, what am I saying? It's probably like, like, like nine or 11 into it I started feeling exactly the same shit that I felt on two and a half back going past that point

I knew my enthusiasm and passion had had an expiration date he couldn't manufacture it I tried but I couldn't I didn't like the show enough you know I love the people I was working with you know from the writer's crew to the actor they were terrific

You didn't like the final product. I didn't, yeah, and I didn't, I stopped caring. But I still, you know, had enough dough to keep the lifestyle and all that other fun shit going on. And just stayed way too fucking high to really engage in this thing. I mean, I was doing this thing, Joe, where I was partying, you know, hitting the fucking pipe. Either girls or porn or both or, you know, whoever showed up, yeah, fucking, yeah, hey, Come on in. Come on in.

There's plenty to go around. And then there's this thing. I think I felt like I was time traveling from like 1 a.m. to like seven. It felt like 11, I don't know, 15 minutes. Whereas, you know, 9 to midnight felt normal. Wow, we had plenty of time to do everything. And then like the hours I really needed to like, you know, settle in and enjoy. Those just vanished.

And then you're back to work. No, I got someone banging on my fucking door. dude you're late what the fuck and I'm still fucking sideways wow so I'd pop a couple shots or like half a Xanax or something and I said I just need and I would literally do this thing it was a 15 minute 20 minute nap where I would just hit the pillow I'd try to meditate with a body just vibrating from crack all night trying to meditate at that point I'm trying to fucking time travel I'm trying to levitate right and but I could feel Well, okay, I've generated some calmness.

And then I would hit the shower and I would be in the shower and I'd say, okay, I only have to navigate from this shower to the next shower. And that's about 11, maybe 12 hours. It was like shower to shower. Remember that commercial like in the 70s? Wasn't there a fucking like a deodorant or something called shower to shower? Yeah, like it lasted from one shower to the next. Yeah. So I'm trying to last from one shower to the next man.

shit. And then, but I'd get to work and then have that midday drop off. And I wasn't hitting the pipe at work, but I needed to keep some fuel in the engine. So I'd be, you know, I start drinking. And then, man, people look at sitcoms like, oh, they're out there having a fun time. Man, it is super fucking complicated. Well, you've done them. Yeah. Right? It's like, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a choreographed thing. And so it is hard enough to do and to do well completely focused and with all your shit intact, right? You start getting over here and trying to be that specific, just with marks, with jokes, with timing, with other people. And then a lot of my energy is going to trying to disguise, like, the condition I'm really in, you know, and trying to make excuses.

Right. Oh, I had a med mix up today. med mix up i'm on two pills or the same fucking thing at the same time every day there's no med mix up you know right it's like what are we doing and so yeah and then that turns into that thing we just then they start getting behind and i would just be like oh just sorry for the overtime i'll just pay for it and you know they should they should have not taken the money they should have said we're shutting down you need to fucking go go get well or go get just a little better than what you're showing up as.

And so that show kind of never really had a chance to be anything special, you know, because I didn't, I didn't really care about it. And the thing that sucks about that, looking back, it's like, think about all the energy and the hard work that all those other people put into it and committed to it because I said yes. Right. You know? And there's also, there's a bunch of people that were rooting for you because they, they saw, what happened with two and a half men.

It was a big public disaster. You leave. Is his career ruined? Oh, no, look, he's got another show. Oh, Charlie's back. But did anybody even say, okay, so hold on, what did he do between that, you know, after that last swan dive into the volcano that we all watched? And then he's on the, he's back on, he's on another show. Like, what did he do between then and there?

Well, the narrative on you was, as an outsider, was that you were. were one of the rare guys who could party like that, but still pull it off and have a career. Right. And I think your ex-wife had said that, that she never worried about you. You would always land on your feet. Because you were very talented. Thank you. You were also very loved.

Thank you. Which is one of the reasons why people embraced you when you were talking about how much crack you were doing. You know, when you were saying all that, people, there was, they weren't mad at you. They were like, he's fucking partying, you know. It was a very odd time. where so many people who don't admit that they party, you know, because of their job or because of whatever, you know, they try to, like, keep it hot, you know, hidden under wraps. Right. And you were doing a live interview with this lady.

And you're talking to her about smoking rocks. And she was flabbergasted, like you could tell. Yeah. She did not expect that kind of candor. Right. With discussion of illicit drugs. Right. It was just like, nobody ever done that before.

Well, she asked, I mean. Right, but nobody ever embraced it the way you did it. Right, right, right. Right. Everybody else is like, well, you know, it's a terrible time of my life. I was, I got so low I was doing crack cocaine. Right, right, right. It comes from a place of shame.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you didn't have any shame. I didn't. No. Because I'd watch something like a couple days before I sat down with Andrew Canning, and it was this old interview with Charlie Gibson on some special they did for ABC. see right I don't even think it wasn't a

GMA piece it was like a more in-depth one of those exposés they do you know and it was me coming out of rehab and I remember watching myself and just being such a I was like that guy's a fucking sissy man that guy's a fucking pussy what's wrong with him look at him all that shame all that embarrassment like no no

no we're not doing that anymore so that got locked in oh yeah I remember how I just remember how I felt watching me doing it their way yeah I was like no no no And then, you know, I got all, I got the brain full of, you know, fucking nuclear crazy cream that I'm on fucking, you know, covering myself in. And, uh, that's what two K's.

That's like the donuts, right? Right. And yeah, man. And, and you know where the material came from, right? Those slogans and all that stuff. No. Was Brian Wilson. From the beach boys?

No, the Brian Wilson pitcher for the Giants. The guy they called The Beard. Oh. Yeah. I was on the phone with him like the day, a couple days before that because Tony and I, Tony Todd and I were watching baseball highlights. And I was like, wow, this guy's a fucking trip. Tony, get him on the phone, right?

The next day I'm on the phone with him. I think he was just trying to give me a pep talk. He was like, hey, man, just know that guys like us, you know, we're not, we're not like everybody else. You know, we're different, man. We got, you know, we got tiger blood running through our veins. We got fucking Adonis DNA. We got, you know, we don't know how to lose, man,

because we're always fucking winning, right? So I hear all this. And he's probably thinking, cool, man, I just kind of inspired him, maybe just to get to the next moment, you know? That stuff went in there, man. And it stayed on a fucking loop. And I sat down,

and the interview doesn't start like that, which is a trip. I'm trying to keep it together. I'm trying to give her the stuff she needs to, like, maybe, I don't even know, What was the thrust of that story? Being fired or some shit? I don't remember.

So, but there's a moment that's not on film. And Andrea can't deny this. She makes a crack about these two girlfriends that I'm living with, right? And expects me to just like, like let it just, you know, brush it off and then answer her next question. And I said, hold on a second. I said, that was really rude. She was like, which part? I'm like, what you just, how you just address them?

You owe them an apology. And she was like, okay, I'm paraphrasing some of this, right? But this is kind of, this is the tone of it. And so she- How did she address them? Um, I felt like they were dismissed as just like porn, porn chicks, you know? Because one was a porn chick, the other was not. It's going to have Natty.

So she kind of got rolling. into that unfairly you know and so so then they you know she andry's like oh my god okay you know I'm sorry I didn't mean anything by that you know but I'm over here you know with the thing and and I'm not I'm not letting it go I I ask you apologize we should have been past it now I'm stewing right yeah and that's ramped up now yeah yeah and that's when it turned into and then I start hearing Brian's stuff and I'm like I don't know man I'm a fucking tiger blood and then it all just and then it it got away from me and I couldn't pull it back wow and then everybody's like okay well that was different I mean it's kind

of fucking interesting and unique and whatever man well um well let's just let's let's let's you know let's just have a quiet night and and and we'll see how that plays out you know and I wake up into a world of not the world I said goodnight to six hours earlier and my friends are banging on the door people are sending me videos and stuff and he's like

dude the fucking the world's on fire with your shit man I'm like all right what does that mean and there's like there's folk songs and rap songs people like marching in the streets and there's already t-shirts and it's just it's just

It has just gone, it exploded. Yeah. And so it's not like I could jump on my roof with a bullhorn. I say, all right, everybody, okay, let's just, you know. UFC fighters were saying they had tiger blood. They were joking around about it. See? Yeah.

I mean, it got, it got, it got, it got, it penetrated me. Yeah. Yeah, it achieved penetration. Well, no one had ever done an interview like that before. I didn't, I, yeah. I wasn't thinking about that in the moment. I was just fucking pissed. And I wasn't going to be sissy Charles from the 90s, you know.

Right. It was like this whole convergence of all these elements and all these emotions and all these feelings. And also the resentment I had in myself, you know, and just like, all right, I'm just going to pick some targets. And, and, and, you know, would have been nice. been sort of if I could have just sort of been herded, just kind of, you know, away from it, you know. Have you ever thought of what your life would be like if you didn't do that interview? I've started to. No, I've started to try to walk into that village, right?

But as soon as I take a look around, none of it really makes sense because it's, I can't really imagine. it you know what do you think it would i mean what would it's it's hard to kind of even put those pieces together i wonder if you had ever would have gotten sober interesting you mean you mean today's sober sober yeah yeah yeah you might have had to have that complete chaos tailspin free fall crash right publicly right to just eventually like gather your shit together and go Okay. Right. All right.

Time to learn and grow. Right. Obviously, that wasn't smart. Let's do it differently. Right. Let's get it together and step by step day by day. And look, here you are. Almost nine years later.

Almost eight years later. That's, uh, you always wonder. Like, maybe you have to have. That was your rock bottom moment. And it was public, you know. The whole world got to see it. Like a full cleanse. Yeah.

Wow. Just a purging of all of it. And, you know, and still you have to battle with this reinforcement because now everybody is loving the fact that, you know, you're winning and that, you know, you're talking about how much crack you smoke and how crazy it is. And you got all these hot girls and everybody's like, he's winning. He's winning. And so now there's no incentive at all to get healthy. Right. Which is kind of nuts.

And not only that, financially, you're kind of. it kind of helps you to be like a little off the rails. And so you're kind of known for that, you know? Like, and then you have this big tour and everybody's coming out to see you. Right, yeah. Which was crazy for you to do. Like, the first one where you did it without comedians

was just bananas. Yeah, it was a complete train wreck. Yeah, it was a disaster. But you guys pulled it together. And that was like kind of the story of like your career when things have fallen apart. People want you to pull it together. So even though you had that disaster show and everybody knew it was a disaster show, people were still coming out to see the other ones.

Right, right, right, yeah. I had the option after the Detroit massacre of flying to Chicago or taking the bus, the tour bus, right? And I said, I need those seven or eight hours on the bus. And they're like, why? I said, because I'm going to rewrite the entire show. and I think Natty was on that trip I think maybe Rick

I know Shady was on anyway and I just I just there was a place you know room in the back and I just kind of barricaded myself with a pat of paper and a pen and just went to town and just sort of started

trying to reshape it and when I got to Chicago they were expecting all this all the special effects we needed from that you know all that garbage and I said we traveled with none of it I said here's the new show

you're like you sure about this I'm like just trust me and that and unfortunately that's the night where it got applauded and kept the train on the tracks was Chicago you know but isn't that weird I had the wherewithal like in the middle of all that and they still had enough enough something enough of that thing to to just you know maybe that's just pride at that point certainly it's also that's the impact of public humiliation like thank you yeah enough how about that time to Get this fucking, get this thing back on track.

Yeah. And it was just, the curtain comes up and there's two chairs. And I have a moderator. And it's just a conversation. Imagine that. Yeah. Didn't reinvent anything. No.

You know. And I wrote a letter is what it was. Dear Chicago. And it's like this whole thing, you know, including them. And yeah. So I got them, I kind of got them back on my side. And then we sat down. Yeah.

Well, people realized also you were figuring this tour thing out on the fly. Yeah. Yeah. It was, essentially, it was 21 cities in like 24 days with no act. That's what it was, man. So I know you had Jeff Ross was on some of him. Jeff Ross, yeah. Who's great at that master at Off the Cuff.

Wow. He showed up and really just put. Perfect guy for that. Put a shape on it. Yes. And then you had Russell on some of them too, right? Yes. Who's also a master at Off the Cuff.

Yes. And he was so relieved that the two chairs had shown up because that's when he joined us in Canada. Ah. Yeah. No, he was terrific. Yeah. He was great. Yeah.

You know the first night sitting with him? Some dude, like, what's like the Canadian version of like a quarter? What's their dollar? A loony. Okay. but that's a dollar? I think so. Okay.

Is that the heavy one? Yeah, someone threw it at him? No, at me. Oh. Like, we're in the chair for maybe five minutes. And I get, from the balcony, I get hit with one right here. Oh. And it just, it was like getting punched, but like someone with a skinny metal hand, you know?

And I just had to kind of pause into that. And they got the guy thrown out. But I just thought, wow. I could have lost an eye. eye. Yeah. A Russell could have lost an eye. And it was just like, wow, all right.

Also, pretty good shot. Really good shot. Guy throws a loony from the balcony and he hits it in the head. Yeah, that's impressive. It is. Because that's not an aerodynamic thing. It's not. No.

How are you throwing that? You have to kind of factor in. Yeah. It's a lot of flipping of the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like a boomerang or something. Yeah, it's a frisbee. It's a frisbee.

It's a little tiny frisbee. Yeah. So anyway, so there were just moments like that that, that I, I guess just little cosmic reminders that not everybody was on my side. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Which is important, too.

Can I hit the bathroom really quickly? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We couldn't actually wrap it up. We're getting close. Okay. You want to wrap it up? Can we just touch on a couple things before we do? Absolutely.

Is that cool? It's take a leak and we'll come back. Okay, cool. Should we bring this up? I guess we have to. So this just happened. We just found out that Charlie Kirk got shot. It's fucking awful.

And is he dead? No, I don't think so. That's what was just... One of the guys out there just said it was confirmed that he's dead. In the lobby was just... I've been looking. I haven't seen anything that said confirmed. Whoa.

Murder for having a different opinion from somebody else. Yeah. Different ideology from somebody else. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Beliefs that didn't align. Who did it?

Yeah. I'm sorry? Yeah. Rest in peace. Fuck. Jesus. 27 years old, maybe? 30?

Do they even have a suspect? I don't know. I don't, I don't, I'm literally trying to check it all on Twitter and it's all. Fuck. Fuck. Nobody deserves it. He doesn't deserve that. Nobody deserves that.

So, so were you saying that MSNBC had a crazy take on it? Mm-hmm. What was their take? I'm literally just reading Twitter, so I didn't see the video. I just saw people talking about tweets of it. I'll pull it up, though. Fuck. And even now they could have taken it down.

It was a tweet or a video? I don't, I don't, I'm doing the show while I'm trying to figure out. Right, no, I understand. I think they were live on the air and people clipped what they were talking about. It's not a tweet. It's not on their Twitter account or anything. So it's someone's hot take. Live in the moment.

Yeah, that's a crazy take. Crazy take is... What was the take that they deserved it? That's why I didn't want to pair. Right. Here you go. Dave Portnoy reposted this. You found it right here.

Put it... It's only 10 seconds. Which is shooting like this happens. You can put the headphones on. Yeah, and again, I emphasize what you just emphasize. We don't know any of the full details of this. We don't know if this was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration. So we have no idea about that.

That's what the crazy thing was. Oh, that's it. Yeah, if it was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration. What? Someone shot their gun off in celebration and killed him. You shoot celebration guns in the air. Oh, God. Just.

What a crazy take. Like, it might not have been someone assassinating someone for the wrong opinion. Oh, fuck Well, why does something of that have to be spun? Their ideology No, I know, but I'm just saying it's like... I mean, they want to try to pin it on a Trump supporter With a crazy Trump supporter with a gun

Right, going wacky We don't know if it was a supporter Shooting off a gun in celebration Because you know they do there, a lot of folks are just constantly out there Shooting off guns at large gatherings in celebration Yeah, the Fourth of July, I can't leave your house What the fuck? No, that is

That's a, wow There's going to be a lot of people celebrating this It's so scary It's so dangerous too To celebrate or to in any way encourage this kind of behavior From human beings It's not a violent guy

Who's talking to people on college campuses Wasn't even particularly rude Who's tried to be pretty reasonable with people Everything I saw seemed reasonable Very intelligent guy You know Whether you agree with him or don't And there's a lot of stuff that I didn't agree with them on

That's fine You're allowed to disagree with people Without celebrating the fact they got shot But you can't disrespect his passion Yeah Well what you're supposed to do with a guy like that If you're opposing him Is debate him

Right Have a conversation where your argument Is more compelling than his Sure That's what people should be celebrating Discourse You know we used to do that do some homework and bring it to the table yeah yeah it's horrible it's horrible this podcast has been

a lot about violence man it has but not this kind no i'm sorry not not um something is so in the moment right now from someone this currently current yeah that that that we see and and are are you know aware of daily. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. I mean, he's one of those young influencers, right? This time from the right, who is all over social media, always doing these various shows and

debating people and talking to people and giving speeches. Sure. Yeah. No one deserves this, folks. No one that has different opinions. No one deserves that. No. This is horrible.

No. But I know people are going to celebrate it because this is a fucked up time and people have really fallen into this trap of us against them. But it's also going to make people not want to be as courageous or not want to be as as forthright with the things they believe. It's going to put people on guard. It could also could. It could do the opposite. I get that. But there's also going to be that sort of ingrained thing now.

You're correct. Yeah. And, you know, and just, you know, going through the whole New York thing, I just, you know, sometimes you're, you know, there's a crowd and it's all love. It's all love. And all they want is, you know, is your signature or a photo or this and them. But there's so much of those moments where you're spent looking down. You're looking down the entire time. Yeah.

And I don't think anybody wants to shoot me. I don't think that that's kind of out in the world, right? No. But it just, it's the type of shit that just lived. in the back of one's mind because how could it not? How could it not? Yeah. And then the thing like today

and you're like, okay, that's why it's in the back of our minds. Yeah. You know? Well, it's, you know, when we were talking about assassinations earlier, whether it's Kennedy or RFK or, you know, you think of them in the past, you think of them like

you don't, when something happens in the current, like right now with this with Charlie Kirk, it doesn't seem real. No. It seems very surreal. It does. It seems like it's going to take a long time before we reference this as something that happened.

Like he, oh, you remember he got shot and killed? Oh, yeah. Like right now it just doesn't seem real. It seems, uh, it seems so crazy that just, it's not registering. It's not, no. Is he, is he a friend? No. Uh, I met him once.

I met him once at a gun range of all places. Wow. Wow. Yeah. He was a nice guy when I met him. Wow. It's a fucked up time. People are so divided in this country.

So divided. And there's so many people that love it. They love that we're divided. And they profit off that division. And they stoke the fires. And they do it for their own profit. And it's so fucking great. it's so gross and to encourage this kind of thing

is really one of the most horrific things that you could do after someone dies horribly like this to celebrate it's it's it's it's it's it's on it's should be a wake-up call for everybody like this is yeah this is nuts no it's not it's not it's it's it's unforgivable that that that spent things like that and because the people they're never thinking about is is is is that person's family.

I think they just, that's just like default with those. They gaslight you by default. Right. So immediately they try to find some reason why the, whatever the thing is, it's in the news is someone else's fault. Right. Of course. It's just all gaslighting.

And that's what they're paid to do. They're paid propagandists. Masquerading as the news. So weird. Fuck. No, this is a, it's a, it's a dark day. Yeah. It is.

Well, one of the two things is going to happen. Either people are going to realize how fucking insaneness is, and we have to have a conversation about being able to have conversations. Right. Or it's going to get a lot worse. That's what's scary. Scary just could spark off some kind of a real violent conflict. You know, that guy had a lot of fans.

A lot of people love that guy. Yeah, I know. And if they find out that he could. got killed for something that they vehemently oppose in the first place, it could send people over the edge. It could. It could. Yeah.

There's always that flashpoint moment in any, you know, in previous times like this. Yep. You know? Yeah. There's always that tipping point moment. Like the Rodney King film. Yep. Right?

Something. Just like, that's it. Yeah. You know, this also highlights just a little bit of perspective, like how lucky Trump is, was. Oh, yeah. You know, and it's just like Charlie didn't get the benefit of a head turn or a couple of microns or millimeters or, you know, and it's just like, wow, who, who decides that? yeah you know

that is just the Trump thing it's bananas yeah but they talk about clips his ear yeah because he makes

a reference to something yeah and then it's just yeah and then it clips his ear where if he didn't turn his head

he'd be dead and it would have been on live on CNN how do we know more about an assassination from 1963

yeah than we do about the Trump assassinated yeah eight months ago that one That story is fucked.

There's a lot of weird stuff with that story. There's a cell phone that was traveling because of metadata, they know cell phone was traveling from offices outside of the offices of the FBI in that area all the way to this guy multiple times. Imagine that. He was 20 years old. His apartment was professionally scrubbed. There was no silverware in it.

He had no social media presence. He was regularly training with, like, military guys. He was regularly training and shooting. Like, one guy had remembered him from a range. Right. Like, what? He was in a Black Rock commercial two years before. Right.

Like, what? His chosen rooftop is just kind of between the two quadrants that they're assigned to cover. Not only that. It's just a blind spot. The excuse for why they didn't have officers on that rooftop was it was too sloped. The slope was too steep, which made zero sense. Wow. Because he climbed up it.

He was fine. Yeah, he did. What the fuck are you talking about? It didn't make any sense. Not only that, the one where the snipers were perched had a steeper slope. It made no sense. No. It was fucking nuts.

They found that guy walking around the grounds a half an hour before the event with a fucking rangefinder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're not on a golf course with a rangefinder, then you're going to shoot something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's what they're for. But it's just, man, it's, uh, it, it, it, it, it sucks that, that, to say things like, you know, the, the, these are the times we, we currently inhabit, you know, and, and that, that there's nothing, that is an absolutely factual statement. Yeah. And it sucks to have to, you know, to, to, to, to, to, to exist in, in, inside of that, you know, you know, you know. Yeah, it's very strange, man It's very strange It's very strange. It's very strange And, you know, we've talked about it a bunch of times

But it bears repeating I think a lot of it is highlighted by bots A lot of it is people are being inflamed Online by people that aren't even real accounts Interesting, you see, I don't study any of that Oh, there's a lot of that going on I think it's a giant percentage of all online discourse Or people are hating and saying mean things

about people's political beliefs or anti-Israel things or anti-Palestine things or whatever. I just think a giant ton of that is foreign governments who are running these bot farms. Wow. And it's been proven. They know for a fact. China actually got caught recently. What was this the chat GPT thing? They were using chat.

They were using open AI software. Chat GPT blocked a bunch of accounts from multiple countries that had suspicious activity. Yeah. And they were commenting on like blocking of USAID money and a bunch of different like political subjects. And what they're basically doing is just getting people to fight. Just that's what they want. They want constant fighting. Constant infight constant like we have to take action. We have to, you know, constantly stoking the flames. Right, right, right. Wow. So it's not even organic. Some of it's organic for sure. But a lot of it is being enhanced by foreign governments for sure. And probably some of it by our own government. What they did with the Manson family, you think they stopped there? I think some of that kind of stuff isn't going on right now that we don't know about right now because there hasn't been a Tom O'Neill to write a book about it. Sure, sure. And then we also never know which stuff was the beta test for that, you know, for that specific type of program

or that specific type of op to be rolled out. Yep. And like where, you know, okay, let's see. How they react to this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, hell. Yeah. That worked like a charm.

Okay. Activate more of those, you know. Yeah. Jesus. How do we wrap this up on a positive note? I don't think we can. No. I think it is what it is.

It is what it is. I think we just have to deal with that. Yeah. Well, listen, man, it was great to finally actually meet you. This was amazing. It was a lot of fun. Thank you. I really enjoy talking to you.

Thank you. Yeah, no, I think you'll notice now, I always need a few minutes to get warmed up. Get settled in. No, you seem cool right off the bat. No, thank you. Some great stories, too, Jesus. Thank you. I just, sometimes my brain, like we talked about, you know, it wants to go somewhere else when I was trying to.

It's amazing. Your brain works as good as it does, considering all the things you've done to it. Oh, that's awesome. Right? If you think about it? Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

There's that part. Yeah. There's that part. It's a big part. Because people are like, you know, hey, man, you should get some laser work on your face. I'm like, dude, I'm lucky this thing is still fucking attached. Yeah. So go.

fuck yourself. You actually look way better than you've looked at a long time. Oh, right on. Thank you. The sobriety suits you. It really does. You look really healthy. You know, I took a page out of your book, a very specific page. And even if it's a rumor, it worked, I use a sauna blanket, right? This thing called Higher Dose. And I'm not sponsored by them. I just bought one and I fucking love it. I use it at home. And then I hear, hey man, fucking Joe travels with his, right? I have one of those sauna blankets.

But do you travel with it? I do if I know that there's not going to be a sauna. Okay, okay. A lot of times I'll just try to find a place that has a sauna. Okay. Yeah. I was like, well, fuck it. He's traveling with his.

You definitely can, though. It's good. They're great. I'm going to travel with mine. Yeah. So I've had it on this trip. I've traveled with it. It's a pain in the ass.

I'm lugging this rolling duffling duffling shit. Who cares? But so, so thank you. It's worth it, though. Thank you for the idea. Yeah. Those are great because those sauna blankets are great because they're portable and you could always just get it in. Right, right. I really genuinely prefer a real sauna if you have one because I like to

stretch out in the sauna. Sure. It's the best time ever to stretch. But as far as time with the portable blanket is like I tell people it's like a Bickram class without all the yelling and pain. Right? A little bit. Well, do you get drenched in that thing? Oh, sure. That's a lot of what Bickram is. You know, a lot of his heat shock therapy. Right. You know, it's also the yoga and the exercises, which are great. And also the fact that you're more pliable when you're really warm and heated up like that, which really helps. But a lot of what there, there was actually a study that they were doing at Harvard.

I don't know if they completed it. But they were doing it a couple of years back about the benefits of hot yoga and whether they're comparable to the known medical benefits of sauna, which are pretty well documented. And what was the conclusion? I don't know. I have to think it's got to be similar. Okay. Because I've been in both. You know, I've been in a lot of hot saunas and I've done a lot of hot yoga.

And you, because of the exercise, I think you reach very similar body temperatures. Got it. And your heart rate jacks up because you're so hot. Sure. You know, you can barely cool yourself off with a glass of water when they let you have a sip. Right. In between things, you're allowed to take a sip of water. Yeah.

But it's, uh, it's real similar. And it's 90 minutes, you know, which is fucking brutal. Yeah. You can get through a real good Bikrim, hot yoga class at the end of that, man. You're, you're, you're, you're going to have a, you, you have a different day in front of you. A hundred percent. Yeah. No, I said, I did that every day.

It was like how everyone started their day. Yeah. The world would be so much more peaceful. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. It really would. Yeah, it really would.

It'd be a much, much, much, much better place. And you don't have to. and do anything hard in the gym. You don't have to lift weights. You don't have to punch the bag. All those things are great. But just do a hot yoga class for 90 minutes every day. You will live in a different world.

Yep. 13 up, 13 down, right? Yeah. You'll live in a world of kindness and sweet people and hello, friend. Right. Because you've already put yourself through something that nobody else can deliver the rest of the day. They can't deliver that kind of pain. just inflicted on yourself. And it's a constant battle to see if you can use a hundred percent effort.

Exactly. You're constantly battling. Can I hold his pose for 15 more seconds? Yeah. And there's no cheat zone. Exactly. There's no, you can't. Right, because you're always doing it 100% of what you can do. Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, was, I was, was, I was, was, I was, was, was, I was, was, was, he's studio on, like, Rexford in the early 80s. Oh, wow. Yeah, man. We were with that original crew. Wow.

Yeah. There's one thing that was really cool. Kareem was in there. Cream on Abdul-Jabar. Wow. And, you know, a lot of stuff with the arms above the head, he can only go about here because of the ceiling. Yeah.

I would come in late sometimes, and Kareem would already be in there. And so his shoes would be, like, next to his locker. So I would put my, still wearing my shoes inside his shoes. just because I just had to. I mean, it's cool as fuck. It's Kareem, right? And so, but then Quincy Jones is also in there, right? And so the mirror, you could see the front desk where you'd check in behind, like, you could see it, but it was behind us.

We're all facing forward. And for about a six-month period, you know, Quincy's in a little speedos, and he's giving, you know, he's giving it his all. He'd be in the middle of, like, the standing bow or the freaking head to knee or something like a triangle. or something really complicated and he'd stop and he'd leave the class but you'd see him going to the desk and writing shit down fucking sweating in his speedo right he's writing shit down he's sweating all over the paper and he'd come back and try to you know resume what what he was doing and then this went on for a while and we came to find out later guess what he was working on if you think about the year if you think about like what that how his mind was being expanded right he

He was producing thriller. Whoa. Yeah. And he's getting inspired during the yoga, during the Bechram Yoga. Wow. So we were kind of watching in the mirror the best, I think, the largest selling album ever, perhaps. Right? Probably.

Yeah. It's got to be up there. Being built behind us. Wow. Kind of a trip, right? Yeah. Wow. That shows you how hyper-diled in he is.

Yeah. Even in the middle of a yoga class, he's got to run out. He's probably thinking about it with every pose. Exactly. Yeah, or some... They just had to write it down. Had to write it down. Wow.

Because most people aren't allowed to leave the class. But Quincy Jones has to write some shit down for thriller. You got to let him leave. Yeah. Yeah. He gets that pass, doesn't he? He gets the past. He gets the pass.

All right, brother. This is an absolute pleasure. It was an honor. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Best of luck for you and everything. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody. You know what I'm going to be.