The Joe Rogan Experience - #2381 - Taylor Kitsch

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

Taylor Kitsch is an award-winning actor best known for his roles in films such as "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" and "Lone Survivor," as well as television shows including "Waco," "Painkiller," "American Primeval," and "The Terminal List." His new series, "The Terminal List: Dark Wolf," a prequel to "The Terminal List," is streaming exclusively on Amazon Prime Video. In addition to his busy acting career, Taylor is an accomplished wildlife photographer and philanthropist. He is launching Howlers Ridge Fund (HRF), a nonprofit serving veterans, people in recovery, and those facing trauma, grief, and life’s hardest moments through nature-based retreats, educational programs, and grants to aligned nonprofits. www.primevideo.com/detail/0MYH9XYR9SCGXB57LR8ES71GFLwww.howlersridge.org Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new DraftKings customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Get 1 promo code to redeem discounted NFL Sunday Ticket subscription and max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. NFL Sunday Ticket: YouTube TV base plan (not included in this offer) required to watch Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. Subscription autorenews yearly at then-current price (currently $378 for YouTube TV subscribers, or $480 for YouTube subscribers); cancel anytime. Terms, restrictions, embargoes and eligibility requirements apply. No refunds. Commercial use excluded. Addt’l terms: https://tv.youtube.com/learn/nflsundayticket/draftkings/. Offer ends 9/29/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. You know? Eighty-five. Yeah, drop some headphones on the trouble. Damn. Yeah, you have to, well, see, if you're ever going to shoot something at 45,

you really want to be comfortable at twice that. Okay. So I'll shoot 90, I'll shoot 100 yards, yeah. Yeah, because that way when you get into 40, it seems normal seems easy easy day yeah yeah it's all just about like effective distance would you take a shot at 85 no no no no that's far you might take a follow-up shot like oh yeah the animal's already gonna go down yeah you can you should always get a second shot on them yeah so I'll take a second shot at 85 but have you had one and and it just fucking ran just gone oh yeah like 200 300 yards what do you mean

Like if you shoot it and you know how, yeah, hit it and it just goes into the bush and you've got to track it, find it. Yeah, you can track them though. Yeah, just leaking all over the place. Yeah, blood trails. Yeah. Especially if you use a large mechanical broadhead. So I've shot one deer in my life and it was after Lone and I was on LaTrell's. After Lone survival.

Yeah. And I was with Littrell and a couple other seals on his ranch. And, you know, you're surrounded by seals. So it's like, he's like, let's get you one. I'm like, yeah, let's go. And so we're on the ranch. Have you been there? No.

Oh, it's great. And I don't know how many acres, but he used to have like giraffes on the ranch and shit. It was crazy. You would literally just be out there and there's a couple giraffes. And I think they're gone now. But we pull into this like opening and he's like, there's going to be some deer on the right. Lo and behold, a couple of deer. he's like okay take that one pull out the m4 uh we're pretty far but not crazy and i'm nervous man

i like of course i've trained with the m4 and for loan and all this stuff but i've never like shot shot and so i hit it and he's like fucking great shot let's let's roll up roll up no dear and you can hear it though and it's like oh ah just lose losing his fucking mind and I'm like oh fuck and so the other seal he's like let's go so we walk and walk and walk and finally get around this corner and we have to put him down with a pistol and I was like why'd you have to put him down with a pistol just because we walked right up on it and it was just dying yeah and so I was just like okay this is part of it yeah and then we you know ate it and all that kind of stuff but it was

That's the good part. Yeah, it really is. But that was my one experience. But I did go with my bro loves hunting. And we went out in Montana and there's on a friend's ranch in any of the back country. And he was Bo. And I love tracking animals for photography. So it's the same thing.

Watching the wind. Getting out fucking before light hits. Just getting deep. You're way up there too. calling all that kind of stuff and it's just so fun and once you get in tight your adrenaline's just buzzing

and we had eyes on this like big boy and so then I'm doing the he's like working his way up the mountain up this pass and I'm doing the antlers against the tree and then the antlers and getting it angry getting it worked up and it starts

bugling even more and you're like I'm not even taking the shot and I'm like this is fucking legit and he's like he pulls his fucking mass down and he's like getting into it I see him like army crawling up there missed but um we had a blast it's more of like a bonding experience man than anything for us but it's a very intense experience especially it really is they scream and truly the sound like gives you goosebumps it does especially when you're close to them yeah and it just goes through your body It shakes you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's nothing like else. I know. I know. It's really fun. Yeah. But it takes a lot of work. It is, you earn it.

Yeah. It's a different hunt, right? Yeah. It's just rifle. It's just rifle up there, at least in that area. It's like sometimes your hunts under an hour. Mm-hmm. You know, with bow, you're in one.

Yeah. This is days, possibly. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Especially if you want to get within 50. Yeah, that's the magic. Yes, yes.

Yeah. Throwing up the grass, checking it all the time. Fuck, it's so fun. You live in Montana now? I do, yeah. How long have you been out there? Five, just over five years now. That's awesome.

What made you choose that? Man, flying into Austin, I was here 16 plus years. So it's just memory fucking lane. It's crazy. Crazy. This is where it all started, man. Really? Yeah.

Like Friday Night Lights. We're like school for the deaf just down the street Land in the airport Dylan Field was just across the airport So so many memories Of Pete and I We're staying at the four seasons Shooting the pilot

Learned a box here at Richard Lords If you don't know this guy He's fucking amazing Richard Lord Yeah Richard Lord There's a dock on him actually He's up I don't even know if he's still around He was pretty old when he taught me

at a box but um wicked dude just zend out he was probably in his mid-60s so he'd be up there now but um yeah Pete literally was like before we hit camera it was like hey you want to go box and I was like all right and I loved it I loved it and I still box you mean Peterberg yeah he loves boxing yeah yeah of course L.A of course I do not spar with with him anymore he's it's dirty pete is his fucking boxing name i bet you didn't fucking tell you that did he no why's a dirty feet because he's earned that man he's uh so you know you'll do body shots only or stuff like that and spar keep each other honest right um but fuck you get them once it's there's no rules there's no rules and it's like you're on camera in like

a week or something like try to give you black on and then you like take it and you're kind of shocked at first it just goes from like two to 11 so quick that's funny but yeah it's the best workout we have a gym connected here so the last time we're no way here yeah it's right next door we have no shit smart so we worked out together and cold plunged the whole deal yeah yeah he gets after it he does he does he pushes i mean even when we shot uh american prime evil he He was, his little garage setup, man. Coal plunge, uh, steam room. Like, it's, he's got to have it.

Yeah. He's got to have it for that brain of his. Yeah. Yeah. America Prime Evil was fucking awesome, dude. Thanks, man. That show's so good. I started watching it with my wife, but she's like, nope, got to go.

My, she can't handle. It's a lot. Things get intense. That's a fucking intent. But also probably super accurate. Yes. One of the most accurate representations of what life was probably like in the West back then. Yeah.

Yeah. I learned so much on that, man. I mean, living in Montana, I got to this cowgirl friend of mine who I met at that ranch had been working with this shaman just outside of Livingston. And I was telling her, I'm playing a guy that kind of raised by Shoshone and all this. And, like, that was kind of where I hung my hat of, like, if this guy lost his family at six or six. seven and then adopted or sold to the Shoshone. This is who he is. He's more Shoshone than he is white.

So I started working with this shaman, which was incredible. And then went down to the Shoshone Reservation, Win River, worked with the elders there. It's tough, man, because obviously going there, you're like, and they knew I was coming. But it's like, you're talking to these elders. and it's like we meet five minutes in and I'm like so what do you what do you guys do when you bury your wife and you're asking these heavy heavy questions cultural questions yes that is true meaning behind it all so she took a long beat and she's like I'll get back to you on that I'll get back to you on that and then I went into this other room at the school there and this

other elderly woman comes in a wheelchair and she sits there and she's like what do you want to know and so we just sat there for hours and she was incredibly transparent and just really open and i would take all this and go to pete and be like listen if we're gonna we got to honor these guys so let's do it right and he was all the years and uh the shoshone was very tough to learn when you say working with a shaman like what did what did you do yeah so we'll do like two-hour sweats um like a sweat lot yeah yeah how do they have that set up like a fire in the middle of it or Yeah, so it's, fire is always burning before you start the sweat, and then he'll grab river rocks from Yellowstone River, and then the fire's going, and he'll bring these rocks that

are in the fire into the middle of the sweat lodge. And there's four doors to this one. And you'll talk, you'll fast the day before, and you'll put the river rocks in the middle, and they're smoking hot right and then he brings river water from a spring or whatever um and then you have you fast and then you uh have your intention ties so you would sit down with them for an hour or two and talk about what you want out of this um sometimes it's like do i want to have a kid or a buddy of mine was using heroin for something so i would bring him and have a sweat and just give him my energy in this sweat to help him or my dad passed or something or some it can be light too it doesn't have to be so heavy um but he's been amazing like before like i start a movie in a couple weeks and i'm just gonna go do

a sweat and get ready for that and i just whatever he's gonna energy he's gonna give me to go into this shoot um and then for the for prime evil it was fucking beautiful like i wasn't a good ride I'm still not on horses and he gave me like my horse has a feather if you really watch he's I have four horses in it but my first horse has a feather in him and I wanted to do all these and honor the horses which obviously the Shoshone do um so he he just taught me a shit ton about just to honor that tribe and honor what what they do and and to be as authentic as possible so that helped me root Isaac so much but yeah that's such an intense character and imagine like you're playing a guy who's a white guy who's like deeply ingrained with native american life and so it's like it's all it's very conflicted

there's a lot going on there but you want you want to embody what this guy would be like yeah yeah and you're you meet him when he's mourning right and he's lost his wife and his son and he married into the tribe so the female chief i married her daughter and had a son and um so when you meet isaac he's just in mourning and everything is full circle everything is circular with them so the only way he could reunite with his family is to is to die honorably so that influences the way i fight so the way Isaac fights is all in wild wild like biting yeah

I had, I just got chills thinking about this. There's a fight, I think, in episode two, which was fucking insane. And we didn't rehearse. This is very Berg. And we have these one guy's blackfeet, unbelievable guy. And I kept using him because he's a great stunt man. And so Pete's like, you guys are going to fucking roll down this hill. And I want you to fight your way to the river.

And then we'll cut. And then I want you to fight in the river. this is like maybe 28 degrees in that river the safety guy is like whoa whoa this is not cool and this is all like on the go so j j j dash on my double is like all in he loves this this is near the end of the shoot too so and uh everyone's game and um that fight was just so fucking intense So is it choreographed at all? Nothing. Nothing.

Literally nothing. So how do you know like when he's going to punch or you're going to punch? Yeah. So during, if it's you and me, it's like you will walk the area, make sure there's no sticks or whatever that we're going to impale us. And during the fight, I'll be like, okay, I'm going to flip you. Oh, wow. And then it's like, okay, I'm going to get on top. So you have to say it.

Yeah. And then Pete will be yelling behind camera. to be like, okay, now work your way on top of them, and then we'll fight, work our way, roll, work our way. And then he's like, okay, find a rock, kill him. Jesus Christ. And then that war cry, which I'm so proud of, I worked on that forever, and I had talked to Pete about it for, you know, months before,

but we're just rolling so quick. And I told our A camera, Brett, to get in. tight i mean any shot with pete is fucking tight which i love um and i'm like b i'm gonna i'm gonna do this war cry so don't go down to him or and he's like gotcha and so when i did it peep finally called cut and he goes what the fuck i was not fucking ready for that and uh it's those moments though that that he allows you to just go you know yeah yeah well he's such a smart guy he is man when he's dialed he's like lone he was just so present and early and he just i mean we're surrounded by seals as you know every take and um i don't think you could do what we did to in prep of just like no

producers no pete no nothing it's just every morning 7 a m 8 a m we're up in the mountain uh with seals with ray mendoza and uh amazing guys and uh we first week is like first day man I'm Canadian so I haven't shot a fucking gun in my life the first time you ever shot a gun was a lone survivor yes that's hilarious so first Chris Karachi who's a fucking legend a man's man um and he I think he was like one of the on the first team uh seal team units and the deepest voice you've ever heard in your life and like a fucking man and uh he took me under his wing and so our first day was live fire and karachi took me aside he's like hey it's you and me and i'm like let's go and i'm like as fit as i ever have been

i was running town lake doing the murph every fucking three times a week with weighted vests and uh just at lake travis high school there doing pull-ups and it was unbelievable fun training for that and um first day was live fire and that fucking gets you right that you do not fuck around and uh they make sure of it and then uh i haven't i hadn't met marcus yet and foster uh had drove down i think from Texas to uh new mexico with with lettrell i was pretty jealous of that it's like oh you got to spend some real time with marcus and i was playing mike obviously and who is Marcus' best friend. And so we're on this fucking range doing live fire,

like upside down, reloads, combat reloads, jamming, blindfold. It was just, it was full on. And Emil's actually a great shot. Marcus comes, everything goes full stop. And right when he's coming, there's a PA on the other side, and she's bringing fucking banana shakes out, which is not a good look for these actors

and Marcus looks at these shakes and he looks at the actors and he's like what the fuck is happening you guys don't get shakes in between and one of the actors just shamelessly goes up and grabs one of these banana shakes

and he's just talking to Marcus and him for the first time and I'm like you might want to put that down like wait till he's fucking leave before but and then uh it's just a beautiful experience man um the second week of training we were doing simunitions have you done that no oh you would love it so this will break skin and uh they hurt it's like a hard plastic paint tipped and they fly like that right

the arc yeah because they don't go as fast right and uh so we have sims now and mike we're would, my guy decides if we push left, push right, if we engage, get the fuck out of here, let's buy yourself some time, whatever. I got to make these calls. And so the seals are in tally gear. And they're like, go up the mountain. What's tally gear? Taliban gear.

They're all dressed in tally gear. So we meet up at the bottom of this fucking mountain and they're all in Taliban gear. And you're like, oh, God. We're so fucked. So they're like, give us 10 minutes and when you get ambushed, we're going to watch and we're going to engage and we're going to see what you do, see what you've learned the last week. And you're like, all right, let's go. So it happens and you're just walking, right, just like we are in the film. You're just walking and waiting to get ambush.

You know shit's about to hit. And so they hit and you hit the ground right away to figure out where. the bullets are coming and and you can hear them which really sets you straight and so i'm looking over at a meal and i'm like fucking uh 12 o'clock they're just straight up in these trees i'm like 12 o'clock fucking push right we got to get the because we're in this open field i just got chills we're in this open field and i'm like get the fucking cover dude we got to fucking fight our way to cover and emil's like taking his time and he's like bro ah fuck all right it's fucking intense and i'm like push right i got foster behind me who's like so in it he's fucking crawling through cactus

and like bleeding and i'm on the ground crawling screaming at amel marcus comes out full we got hammered. I literally don't think we got through a mag. Like, and Marcus comes out and we're not laughing, but it's too light. Like, we're taking it too lightly. And I'm like, Emil, you got to push, man. If I'm pushing, if I'm telling you, so Marcus comes in and he's like full stop and he goes, I thought he was going to rip Emil. And he comes over to me and he's like, is this funny? And I'm like, no, sir. And he's like, do you understand the stakes of this? Like, every one of you are fucking dead.

You're all fucking dead. And so he just rips me. He's like, it's your fault. This guy doesn't want to fucking move. Make a move. Like, you're dead. Do you understand that? And I was just like, just leveled, right?

And it's a beautiful learning curve from me. And we got better. but I mean anytime there's one time I won't kill you with these stories but one time I was like fucking proud of myself like we got in a ditch we're it was too much sim munition same thing and we're all here and I'm fucking looking downrange like like fucking we're in one we're still in a fight and then no joke Mark simos the sniper seal grabs my fucking shoulder and he's like boom and I'm like where the fuck did you come from like that's how good these motherfuckers are man so it was like it was just an amazing experience when you train for something like that like

how much time is spent like when you know you got the role yeah and you know you're going to film like how much time do you give yourself to prepare for something like that longer I love prep so yeah I do yeah why do you love that the more time I can root myself into this guy especially when the stakes are so high like Murph. I mean, physically was, I did this little comedy in Canada. And if you watch this movie, and I was training for loan during this movie. So it's called Skirwink Trail in Newfoundland. Beautiful fucking trail.

And it's me, my best friend of 30 years and my assistant, who is a great guy. and we're training for loan getting ready doing like 50 pound runs uh weighted vests all this kind of skir-skir-wink trail so if you watch this movie like at the beginning to the end my body goes from like this to just fucking stacked in this movie and so there's that but obviously 90% of this is mental right the seals and so um i just love that i love the prep i love that pressure Pete did a beautiful thing bringing 19 guys died on the op and the rescue mission. So it was like he brought all the families. I think it was a week before we hit camera.

And man, you know, I'm going, I'm in the elevator at the Hyatt in Santa Fe or Albuquerque. And I'm fucking nervous. Like, throw up nervous because I'm meeting Dan Murphy now. and I'm like did I do enough am I really fucking ready am I worthy of this shit and then we all have that fucking voice in our head that's like you're a pile of shit you didn't do enough you're not ready and that's why I prep so much because it eliminate it's like a fight right UFC or anything these guys fucking you prep to eliminate that self-doubt so you can be like I'm fucking ready for you you know so it's the same mentality

and so that was my first words to dan were like i'm going to everything i have into this i'm going to do it as authentically as i know how and he was just so fucking gracious with me gave mike's a firefighter patch and just told me some amazing stories and i'm super close with the murphy family still but um i love prep man i think it's you got to have it especially with pete's process like if you're he he's so off the cuff sometimes and if it's an idea he has on the day which he really leans into his gut instinct and obviously that's guided him pretty fucking beautifully but you just got to be ready for anything and if you don't prep you're not rooted you're not ready for anything you know so um that one was a special one yeah do you what

when you get into a character like like if you're doing lone survivor do you try to stay in that character all day long like do you try to do you break for lunch and just be yourself i try for sure but you're still stay in the character no i try and be i try and be with you in the moment right at lunch and not even though it's got to be weird though it is weird because you're on location yep yeah on top of the fucking mountain you're taking the ski lift up there and it's so important to be this guy. Yeah. Yeah.

And then you're having lunch with the Taliban guys. You know? And they're coming and they're like, hey, man, we're big fans. Oh, God. And you're like, this is fucking weird. Yeah. We're supposed to be shooting at each other 20 minutes. I'm about to fucking blow your head off, man.

And so, I mean, Walberg's quite light in between. So that can be infectious in a good way. Ben is very, like, he carries that weight in a beautiful way. That's why he's so good. A meal is quite light But yeah There's definitely a tone right Especially when you're surrounded by the seals

It's such a quick reminder of what you're doing or serving But yeah you're up on that mountain Having a sandwich helping camera crew move their shit And then lunch is always quick So you're right back into it And it depends on the day Like if I know Like the climb up to Murf's

Death was you're just carrying more weight that day. You just cannot fuck around with you better get that fucking right right and I remember being Emil comes up to me and he's like hey if we get off tonight I'll go for a circle with this if we get off tonight You want to go see Eddie Vedder? I'm like Fuck yeah, I love me some Vetter and that was in Albuquerque and so we go to Vetter meet him. Vedder calls them up, sings a couple songs to him. It was unbelievable night. And Pete the next day comes up to me and we're back up in the mountain doing some, the fall off

the cliff. We're doing that the next day. And Pete's like, hey, your death scene. I want to talk about it. And I'm like, all day, what do you want to know? I got some thoughts on it. And, you know, I talked to Marcus in the hotel and he remembers one specific thing he'd like me to do and so Murph brought was pushing himself up with his rifle climbing up this rock so I'm like that's really all I want to make sure for Marcus's sake that I get that in and he's like yeah yeah

we're going to shoot this in a parking lot just outside off the highway in Albuquerque and I'm like yeah right and he's like no no I want to control the and have a beautiful landscape behind Murph. And I'm like, Pete, you're fucking killing me. We're going to do this in a fucking parking lot. And so it was my last day as Murph.

And I love music. I always have a playlist for whatever character. And explosions in the sky, who's Austin, who was at the time Austin base, great guys. And Pete uses them all the time. And they're just acoustic. no lyrics which is they're fucking amazing and so there's one song that has a heartbeat in it and that was my song for mirf and it slows down in it and so i go you know like prepping in

the in the trailer i walked down through this fucking parking lot and i'm like oh dude i'm not in it i'm not ready for this and then i'm getting mad at pete for putting me in a parking lot to do this shit i'm looking at fucking sandia hotel getting ready to go like this most epic death on you know it doesn't get more epic than that guy really put in the tunes and they built this big stage that was like four feet high and the rocks and then surrounded it by green screen and cameras on the phantom camera which is that uber slow motion that's where you see the the spit coming out of murph's mouth and all this and and i just broke down like just I puddled myself right before it was just like months and months and months of thinking about it

and prepping and putting so much pressure and then I had explosions in my head and I was like god damn this is like you're overwhelmed with emotion and Pete comes up and he's like get it out and so I took five minutes camera crews waiting we did like I told Pete I want that rifle to him to climb up with the rifle and um i think we did three takes and then the camera crew jacques was a he's a d p'd american prime evil but he was a camera op on on loan and uh he was working that slow-mo camera and he just goes to pete he's like we've got it we've got it was it weird watching on film knowing that you shot it in a parking lot like trying to this is the first time i told this story um very much like we would go we went and the first time i saw this film man was

in uh i think it wasn't redskins it was Denver the broncos we go and show this to the broncos and uh robert griffin the third was the quarterback i think yeah he was there and um i was with ben foster and Ben had seen it and I was I watched it the first time with the Denver fucking Broncos sitting in this theater and I was a mess a mess yeah it's just the pressure right I think yeah but I love it do it honor yeah truly and then my first email was to Dan his dad and he thanked me and that's all that really fun and Marcus but yeah they thanked me and that was really all I fucking need that's got to be a very intense kind of a role because you're playing a real human being whose family's still alive Maureen, Johnny, Dan, the whole family and there's a destroyer, uh, fucking beach, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, UPS, or not UPS, but like a fucking, um, stamp or whatever named after him. there's fucking it's insane there's all these huge uh honorary plaques and statues and all this kind of stuff so if you let it like overwhelm you it definitely can yeah but it's been i mean

that's where all this my love for these guys is is really stemmed from that you know um that's where it's like i've played seals a lot and it's it's i'm never raised military or my grandfather served but it was it's an infectious group man it's like a brotherhood that's so real exceptional humans truly truly and people don't understand these guys are the best fucking problem solvers on the planet they're doctors their lawyers they're fucking smart and uh so i don't know i've just been embedded and i think once you're in with these guys you know you're you're you don't take it for granted it's like i've made calls to a buddy of mine that uh one of the most decorated seals alive and uh he trained me for loan uh ray mendoza he just came out

with warfare uh that movie that's uh his best friend uh his story and um unbelievable guy but i'll call ray and ray was doing second unit on on uh terminalist dark wolf and he's like a brother to me and no joke you're like hey man i need a favor and he's like he'll fucking bury someone for you man this guy like yeah what do you what do you need what what is it and it's like it's just that whole brotherhood that it's like unquestionably undeniably loyal yeah and like marcus like i mean we're chatting a lot lately just because i'm shooting in huntsville in a couple weeks and he's not far but like my my sister i took some time off to help my sister because she was using uh drugs and um and i just needed somewhere to fucking go just i can't be in austin i tried

l a she's still using she's still relapsing i fucking marcus call marcus i'm like let's i this is what's going on he's like bring her here bring her to the ranch there's no fucking fentanyl there's no heroin there's no meth on this fucking ranch man bring her here and so i she's not using at the ranch so we went to the ranch and 10 days i know she's going to be fucking clean because there's just all we're doing is driving around looking for hogs yeah or like hanging out fishing whatever it is but he's just a beautiful guy man and where he is now is just he's lighter on his feet it's so beautiful to see he was hurting on loan going through a lot of fucking surgery still, all this stuff.

So they're just so loyal and just great guys. Yeah, very, very exceptional people. Your season, your shot. The NFL season is rolling, and every touchdown can bring you closer to a payout with Draft King Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL. Every game is another chance to cash in. Don't just watch the action, win with it. Draft King Sportsbook delivers the unmatched intensity of the NFL right to your fingertips.

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Additional NFL Sunday ticket terms at YouTube.com slash go slash NFL Sunday. Sunday ticket slash terms limited time offer have you been paying attention to what they're doing in texas for veterans yes ibegane initiative yeah awesome huge awesome it's it's so remarkable how effective it is yeah and how many people it's completely saved their life and changed their life yeah you know and i was just thinking about that for your sister you know yeah she's clean 10 years now just under 10 yeah yeah thanks uh she's a nurse now oh wow which is incredible that's great Yeah, she's, it's really kind of, like, that's where that nonprofit comes from. I just started it called Howler's Ridge.

And I didn't even know, like, when she got clean, like, there's some fucking crazy stories, I can tell you. But she got clean and she hit me up and she was at a sober escape with all the girls she got clean with. And I'm like, what is that? And it's basically a reunion with all the people that you went. through your sober living or whatnot. The last place she got clean was she was supposed to be there 90 days. She was there nine months.

Whoa. Yeah, that's what I said. And so she was at this sober escape. And so Howler's Ridge is basically a place. I think we all know an addict if we're not ourselves. And we're going to help vets as well. But it's the sober side of addiction. So it's a place anytime you're using,

at least through my experience watching my sister die a couple times getting narcanned a couple times i mean i've seen her detox on my fucking kitchen floor which is the worst fucking sight of anybody to watch someone in so much pain um but um this this spot is for her you know where it all started and this is i think anytime you're using right we're all habitual humans you work out six, seven times a week. You need that for your brain. So do I. And once you get in that habit, I change. If I don't work out

in three, four days, I'm a fucking asshole. And I get depressed. Yeah. Yeah. Like I get... Anxious. Yeah, very. Yep. Me too. And I get... And I beat the shit out of myself. Right. Mentally. Yeah. I feel terrible. Yeah. Yeah.

So we all create this environment, whether it's good or bad. Yeah. And I think with my sister, I just didn't have anywhere to take her. And I needed to pull her out. Because there was a time I, she relapsed like four or five times in L.A. And I was just finishing true detective when I got her. And, uh, I mean, there's stories, but like, it's pretty fucked up that whole system. Because you have someone that's dying, right?

It's someone you raised or your brother or fucking best friend, whatever. And, uh, I bring her to this. Well, first she had to detox, which is an incredible thing. story um my mom calls me and she's like she's been using for this long and i go full hero mode i didn't even know what fentanyl was really yeah i didn't this is right after true detective i really wasn't exposed to it i knew heroin of course so what is this like 12 13 years ago yeah right in there whenever the end of you didn't know what fentanyl was wow i knew i knew like with the seals um they had fentanyl patches

for the pain and then of course like but that's really all i fucking if that like obviously i educated myself on it after and it's 20 to 25 times worse than heroin it's a deathbed drug put you to sleep and um so i got this call and i'm like i'll get her sober in two weeks bring her down like hero mode and she comes and i had no idea what was going and she had used right before she flew and so she was in withdrawal oh god is fucking right man and your muscle contractions are so bad that i had this little one-bedroom apartment in marina del ray 15 like literally a hallway from here about this long actually and it's late and um she's just pacing because she can't sit still because the muscle contractions are so bad and i'm like shells just take go to

bed take my bed and just try and sleep she's like no no no no you don't understand i have to move and so she tried sleeping going laying down muscle contractions are so bad she fell off the bed and uh i'm like okay let's go for a walk like and the beauty of our relationship and what i think was a huge factor in getting her clean was the transparency like you got to fucking be real with me tell me when you used tell me how often like everything she did which is so tough to hear um and so we ended up walking down abbott kinney at three in the morning and no one's obviously out there and we just did this crazy walk and talk and i'll never forget it and uh it's just heartbreaking and i get her and i call um i don't even know she needs to detox so i call the hospital marina del

Ray and they're like, no. We don't take anybody that's using right now. They have to be detoxed and we may be able to help them after. So I'm like, okay, what the fuck is? Okay, we got a detox. And so I call this place and they're like an hour away and she's like, I have a bed for her and bring her at 6 a.m. I mean, got this little wrangler, a two-door wrangler and she's in the backseat, my mom in the front and she's like almost kicking the fucking glass out because the muscle contractions of my jeep and i was like holy like such a wake-up call that i had no idea it was this bad so reality's kind of setting in and um she kept asking for methadone i want methadone because she had detox before and methadone and um and so i go to this fucking house and i knock on the door and she's in the

back seat she's got her little backpack and it's this fucking woman like butchy in like presence she opens the door she's like just a matter of fact where's your sis and i'm like oh she's grabbing her bag she's like well bring her here i'm like okay uh shells let's go she comes and shells is like i need doesn't say hi nothing she's like i need methadone and she goes well when did you use blah blah blah and all this and she tells her and She's like, oh, you haven't even bottomed out yet. We don't treat drugs with drugs here, honey. You're going to have some Gatorade and some topical muscle relaxer, and you're going to sweat this out.

It's funny now, but Shelby goes to her knees. And she's like, I need methadone. She goes, no, no, no. What did I just say? And she's like, you're getting Gatorade, muscle relaxer, and you're going to watch some movies. And you can smoke, no phone. she was incredible four and a half days later she called me and she's like your sister's good

bring her to a sober living just by venice high and it's 30 like when someone's fucking almost ready to go you're i'll do anything right and they know this and so it's 30 000 for the month and it's sober living you'll have one session which isn't enough uh because she has some trauma and um uh with a psych and i was like one in 30 days one every week oh and i was like we need a lot more than one a week and um so i draw and my sis was a runner and uh so you sign this fucking contract and it's like if she runs if she leaves if she does this this this and that you she's out we kick her out and we keep your money two hours in gone i get a call Oh, yeah.

I get a call from this L.A. number, and I'm like, no fucking way. Okay, there's 30 grand gone. I'm going to find another one. She went to the another one. A little better, cool. Yeah, I got twice a week. Two days later, she runs again. So I'm down 65K in three days.

And I'm like bleeding cash. And then I figure out like another spot. She stayed like 30 days relapsed. and then um yeah she kept relapsing and then uh multiple times narcan up in calabasish there's a place and she left and uh this one girl she had uh night terrors and um so they would she had i would walk around joe with this fucking uh ziplock bag of pills of like antidepressants for her night terrors sleeping pills all these things to just take away this trauma for whatever beat it would be within her, right?

And there's an amazing doc up there and South African guy that deals with women, addicts, and trauma and she was there for a while and that was really great and she got a hold of these sleeping pills and they're supposed to give you one every night and the girl put the bottle up on the little half door you know those doors swinging doors yeah and um so she grabbed the bottle and she was as

a lot of these sober livings are they're pretty incestuous and in the guys sleep with the girls vice versa obviously and um she was dating a kid named mike there and so she went to that part of the house and said goodbye to mike and to this kid's credit um he was like that's a little weird You didn't say good night You just said goodbye And so she goes up Hammer 60 something sleeping pills Oh Jesus

Yeah And he goes and tells He's like hey this ain't right You gotta go check on her So long story short Call the ambulance And the medic to his credit Is like go grab the fucking bottle

And grabs a bottle And shows this medic And he's like We're pumping her stomach Right now in the ambulance And what saved her life were their time release

isn't that fucking crazy wild yeah wild so I got this call and I lost my mind for giving her the bottle but yeah she at that point she kind of just

fucking ran again went to a drug house she hates using needles so someone would shoot her up yeah so as you know if you're fucking sober 92 days whatever was if you use what you were using before

you're fucking gone. Because your tolerance is gone. Yeah exactly. Yeah. So they drop it's a fucking movie. They dropped her off at the stoop of this hospital and she got Narcan. I didn't know any of this part. I didn't I wasn't privy to this yet. I'm just driving around looking for

her and anyway she's just to go back to that environment I'm like I'm out of money. We got to I got to send you back home to Vancouver And she's like, you put me to Vancouver, I'm going to die. And I'm like, well, it ain't working well here either. And she was at a psych ward on 34th in Lamar.

That was a fucked up story. But for like 10 days. But anyway, she got, she went to this place called the Westie House in New Westminster, just outside Vancouver. And so it was a woman's only. And she was there. She ran there. And I got her back in. And she got clean and hasn't looked.

back since right again i know man who thank you those phone calls must be rough i was i didn't even know what allanon was and uh i was at 360 bridge there's a church just across 360 bridge and uh i was at this allanon and uh and i'm waiting i didn't shells has been gone so i'm waiting for the call of like okay she's finally overdosed and gone and so i'm a man and so i'm a mess and I'm in Alon just waiting for this call and I'm judging everybody in this fucking

Alan like there's this woman across me she's like yeah my husband he used and yeah I got Christmas with him and I'm like fuck that's easy day I'm like you don't even know what the fuck I'm dealing with over here you know and then you hear another

story and you're like that's bullshit you guys are pussy all in my head and so I just listen it does help or help me a lot and I come out in this one guy he's like hey you're heavy you got to you want to talk or anything you didn't say word in there and I'm like right when he said that my sis called and she was downtown Vancouver and she had just used and got scared straight some guy had followed her and sexually abused a friend of hers in front of her and she's like i can't do this no more so she was scared straight and she's that's what got her so over she got she was downtown Vancouver called me and she's like can you get me back in

westy house and i call susan was her name and um call her back and i'm throwing everything i'm like i will fucking uh support you guys can you give us a bed can you get her one more time i know she's not allowed back and she goes i'll call you back and she got she got her bed and she was there months wow yeah yeah so what what was it that finally kept her sober did she that's a fucking good question Jamie can you tell Jeff to bring in the coffee that's a good question I know at times it was like she has we have nieces and nephews and she wanted to get clean for them but that didn't last I think it was that moment of getting scared straight like you just can't keep doing this um rock bottom

yeah i think that's what it is it's so subjective right yeah we all know somebody that's like i stopped drinking yesterday yeah done yeah like my buddy over there you just met it's just like he went for a few weeks and he hasn't had booze since and it's like sometimes it just clicks and they're like fuck this life i don't want it anymore and some just can't break that habit but yeah it very so much oh my god thanks jeremy um but yeah she's a lot like me too super i'll steal some get some dog thanks man um yeah it's it's a beautiful story tragically be yeah yeah yeah but it very well couldn't have i know imagine if that guy didn't say goodbye what would What is goodbye? Why goodbye? What the fuck's going on? Yeah, that one guy probably saved your

sister's life. And I want to fucking kill that guy, by the way. Because he relapsed with her and used with her at that drug house. Yeah. I know, man. So that, like, for me, is a big part of Howler's Ridge. And then with the vets, as we just chatted, I love these guys and the families. And so hopefully we'll have, you talk about Iba Gain. I know we can't do that in Montana yet hopefully but I hope up there on Howler's Ridge we can maybe in a year or two we'll see what happens that we can do some of that up there well I think it's going to be so effective in Texas that it's going to spread and I think the fact that they're starting with veterans yeah because these guys don't get any support there's I know you think about what

they have to go through when they go off to war with the things that they experience and then they come back and they've lost friends and they've seen their buddies get blown up in front of them and they're they're all fucked up and then they're hooked on pills and the pills are just you can cookie monster a fucking jar if you want and they'll refill you like and there's different outlets like Virginia Hawaii Florida doctors in each one that are sending you yep yeah and it's that's you literally at your doorstep you're getting these jars of pills so you're giving And these guys obviously have addictive personalities. That's what makes them so fucking great.

Yeah. That's one thing. That's a weird thing, right? The addictive tendency can actually make you great at something. Yeah. Well, beautiful, right? Yeah. If you use it.

If you harness it. But it can go sideways on you, which is really weird. It is. That's one thing. And it's funny because not that I'm cocky or was cocky with Dark Wolf, but I had played this guy already before. and I lose my trident in it and Mendoza's kind of getting the parade rest ready

and the whole ceremony ready for it. And he's just a brother of mine. And it was a big moment that I learned because these workups, say you work up on a Thursday and you go at 2 a.m. to 7 a.m. And you go take a couple guys out and you come back, whatever, celebrate, probably get, have a few drinks,

and then you have another workup on Tuesday. But let's say you and I go in the fight and I die on that Thursday op. You're back in workup Tuesday morning. So this is one thing that really kind of punched me when I was talking to Mendoza because he was talking about some stories where he lost somebody. And I was like, there's literally no fucking time to mourn. There's no time to register the loss of this. So you're just harnessing this pain and this all.

these emotions and you're just like okay i guess i'm back in the fight and i'm going to do this for at least another few months before i'm out of my six month uh tour and that really kind of knocked me out and that set me free to play this guy a lot more like just knee jerk emotion and way more of a live wire because it's like who we talk about how subjective mourning is you know it's like everyone mourns differently yeah so it's like i just made that choice with the ban of just like this guy's just a fucking mess and let them just emotionally make these decisions then and that's where i took them did you have conversations with uh other vets that were addicts and that were fucked up from war and just had all sorts of different kinds of ways of dealing with trauma all the time yeah all the time

it's so common it really is insanely common yeah it's but it'll be it'll be it'll only makes sense it would be crazy if it wasn't common i know yeah you're asking them to do i know and we don't know the half of it no we really don't we don't know any of it we do we don't experience if you don't physically experience it you're just making things up yeah you know yeah and i mean i think obviously with red wings and and stuff like that with loan but then you talk to these guys in between takes and they're pretty transparent which is beautiful that they're talking about it and all this but it's like where are they putting this fucking energy after they're out like they got to find another purpose that's so fucking heightened when you're serving there's no bigger purpose you're

fucking killing bad guys yeah like that's incredible with your brothers right next to you like that's a heavy fucking thing to carry and then when they come out now what right i'm gonna go walk fucking Walmart and just be a dad and that's just a whole other life that's one of the things I really loved about Hurt Locker yeah fuck me it was such a good movie yeah and it was so good the way he explained or or the way it played out how this guy just could not go back to normal like it just wasn't working he didn't give a fuck he'd rather be back out there yeah down I mean you look at Marcus too after Red Wings he went back to Ramadi Yeah.

Which is wanted to die with his boots on. I mean, these guys are fucking, this is kind of the UFC, right? Of like, these guys are modern day fucking gladiators, warriors. And I know they're not in the front lines or downrange, but it's like you got a guy like Marcus or the Mendoza or these guys that are just truly born warriors. There's just a, there are a different breed. Well, that's why they get it through buds, too.

Yeah. You got to be a different kind of human. Yeah. Yeah. More mental than physical. Yeah. I mean, Mendoza was running buds, too. And he would say a lot of times you look at these fucking scrawny guys.

Those are the ones that make it. And then you got the D1 athletes that haven't had or gone through a whole lot because they're gifted athletically. Up here, though, they're not as strong. And that fucking scrawny guy over there is bringing that D1 athlete with them. Yeah. Yeah, those stories are. That's kind of the case with fighters, too, sometimes. Sometimes it's the guys that aren't talented.

that wind up being champions because they're tougher and they work harder. Yeah. Because they don't have it given to them easily. You know, they can't half-ass in the gym. They have to be all in. Yeah. Yeah. It's the life, right?

It's the sacrifice. What are you willing to do? And you, you know, you have to be all in in that job. Both jobs. Yeah. And comfort can kill you. Oh, yeah. In everybody's life.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hate it. I know. I hate it. I know. I know.

I would have thought that one day that I'd be wealthy and that I'd be just fucking chilling and going to the beach. Like, no, I'm a fucking cold plunge every morning. Yeah, no, I fucking hate it. I think it's the enemy. It really is. The enemy of happiness. Yeah. It really is.

Even, like, me with acting, it's like I live for it. I love it. And I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly. Like, I'll just outwork people. It's not like I was gifted this talent or it truly is. I'll just outwork people. And then now it's like 44 now, which is crazy. And now I'm starting to be like, okay,

you're thinking about kids, you're thinking about it. I need a little more balance. Mm-hmm. But then I start this balance, and it scares the fuck out of me, and I don't like it. How does it scare you? Just, it's the comfort, right? It's like, oh, Kitch, don't take this.

Just go keep fly fishing. Keep you know just go on a motorcycle trip go which is great and I'll still do it But I'm just so conscious of it of like don't get fucking comfortable don't think don't rest on your Work you know comfort's not bad if you earn it right but you got to earn the fuck out of it Where like when you're sitting on that couch you know that you actually need to recover like yeah if you're gonna keep going You need to recover so like watching South Park is probably good for you yeah yeah actually like medicine you know just fucking let me just zone out and jiggle true true yeah but there is that i think i don't know do you have that with the the fear of failure still of just like of it all falling

apart that and like i'm on set in two weeks and i'm fucking scared yeah and it's a heavy roll shit ton of dialogue i think that's because you're doing the right thing it's because you know it's what you're supposed to be doing but i can't sit on that fucking couch because i'm like what the fuck are you doing kitch well now you can't sit on the couch yeah it's getting ready yeah yeah but that's why you you're doing what you do I mean you yeah you have to be a little scared of what you do you have to be yeah like Monday I'm going elk hunting yeah kind of freaking out what about is do because it's hard yeah it is it's I got in shape I got like did a lot of cardio a lot of leg workouts

because you're going you're huffing it up those mountains I shot three hours of arrows today fuck three fucking arrows I'm pulling And three hours, I'm pulling back an 80-pound bow. No joke. Yeah, it's a lot of work, man. I work hard. But it's because when it's there, you want to be prepared. So leading up to it, I get, like, fucking super serious.

I get, like, really, like, where it's with me all day long. It's with me, want to brush my teeth. I know it. With me, when I'm putting on my underwear, with me when I'm sitting in the cold plunge. I'm thinking about the mountains. Because it's a hard thing to do, and that's why I do it. Because I love it, but it's also because it's a hard thing to do. and when you're getting ready to do like a role that's like a fucking intense role

the nerves are a good thing they're your friend yeah that truly keeps you honest sick feeling yeah you can't eat like that's that's your friend or you're yeah looking through my girlfriend yeah yeah you barely listening running lines yep yep yeah fucking what if I do this in this scene uh-huh but they want to talk about Taylor Swift's engagement right like I can't yeah I can't and then you're an asshole right like what did you say you're not listening i was i was listening i just spaced out for a second i'm sorry yeah and then you go back to being spaced out after apologizing or i'll just literally be like i'm going on a bike ride and i'm gone for two three hours and then i'm running shit in my head or it's so true but it's the

same i equated to like when we're rolling it's like you ain't hide no more kids you're fucking you're in it it's the same thing when you get exposed to that elk it's like this is your fucking moment. Yeah. We're going to see if you did the work. Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

Yeah. I think people, everyone needs something like that. But it scares people so they shy away from it. And they look toward something that's guaranteed. You get a guaranteed paycheck. It's easy. It's simple. But that's the, that's, that's your enemy.

Yeah. That's how, that's how your life becomes this just dull shade of gray. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Not good. You're very fortunate. You're very fortunate.

You've been able to do. what you love and that what you love is you know it's it's very exciting yeah like and it's very exciting to other people it's very rewarding yeah i do i fucking loved you in american prime able oh thanks that role that was my gladiator that was intense that one scene where you're getting changed and where and you see all the fucking cuts all over your body oh yeah you're like like whoa yeah like it just that scene i lost a bunch of weight for it um and then And Howard Berger did my makeup for that, and he's fucking incredible. And that scene, man.

That scene meant a lot because it's everything. You saw who that guy is raw, naked. With his Shoshone brother and wakes up with it. Starving, covered in scars. And then goes into that teepee with the chief, the mother of his wife that he lost. And I wrote that scene, man. Whoa. Yeah.

And so Pete and I came up with. it's only pain and then I I broke my foot and got a fucking bone cut out of it on this that show and you know the scene where a bone cut out of it yeah why they cut a bone out so there's a scene where I go down to get horses and I kill five or six guys at the skinning camp and I think it's episode two and Betty Gilpin who's amazing comes down and she's like didn't trust me and she comes down i have to kill these guys during that sequence uh i broke this my foot and they call cut and i go to uh dash and a stunt coordinator and um i'm like oh it's broken and he's like i've worked with him for 15 years and he's like don't fuck with me and i'm like no dash it's broken and i got

the shooting pain in my groin and he's like get the fuck out of here and i'm like yeah so finish the scene and they spray fucking bio freeze on my foot and I'm like guys it's broken like I'm fucked and so I go to Bozeman and he's like it's this small bone right on the side of your foot right there that goes up and down right here next to your toe connecting my big toe it's on the side bone on my big toe and so he's like oh you can wear a boot it's a small bone so you won't need to it'll heal itself so i go back and i'm in a boot doing this fucking show and i got a six foot six uh wrangler so when i get off that horse 90% of the time i think his name's bj great dude big cowboy um and he's below me off camera taking my weight because i

can't step off the horse because i'm in a fucking boot medical boot yeah and then uh six weeks goes by or a month and I go back to Bozeman and take my boot off and he does one last x-ray and he's like you need to be in surgery today oh no that's what I said that's a shitty call in Netflix and Pete and

so I got surgery and then right before surgery he's like we can pin it but you're going to be super active and it may not take or I can cut it out and put bone wax on it Bone wax.

Yeah, I didn't know there was a thing of that either. What is bone wax? I don't know either. So you just said cut it? Yeah. Because you wanted to go back to work. Yeah. So they cut a chunk of bone off.

Yeah. What is bone wax? I think it just is a protective coating over it. Ooh, look at this. Commonly supplied and sterile sticks usually require softening before it can be applied. It's generally made a beeswax. Softening agent uses paraffin or petroleum jelly and it's smeared across the bleeding edge of the bone. blocking the holes and causing immediate bone hemostasis.

Still don't know what it means. I don't know what this means is this. A tamponade, tamponade effect. But closure of blockage as if by a tampon, especially to stop bleeding. You have a tampon on your foot, bro. Yeah, I do. Wow, that's crazy. Oh, God.

So does your foot fuck with you now? Yeah. It's, if I'm fly fishing or on uneven ground, it's, or if I'm doing, you know if i'm tracking or doing something uh sidehilling which i fucking hate right side hill hiking i hate it i have a terrible knee as well that's where it bites yeah yeah and then um yeah so i dealt with that we had to i had to be on the couch for six weeks but my first day back was those two scenes and i had called pete and i'm like hey i wrote this scene i'd love because that scene was exposition with my mom at first we were talking about red

feather and stuff and uh i'm like this is my first day back after losing them that i haven't seen her since i've lost her daughter and her grandson so this guy can't get through anything uh so that was the crutch and thank you for noticing that's the crutch of that whole arc to that guy yeah it was an intense scene because it was so realistic yeah like like well that's what a guy would look like yeah i hate when you see someone who looks like they've been living an easy life and they take their shirt off and they're supposed to be like in some rugged outdoor environment they just look soft yeah or he's stacked and looks incredible looks like he's been in the gym yeah eating creatine no you you look like a hard man like a hard man who's been through some fucking

hand-to-hand combat yeah it looked very realistic yeah you have to starve yourself for that yeah how much did you have to lose during the volvo fall experience event discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures. And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind

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Galapagos? Switch and get up to 55,000 avion points that never expire. Your idea of never missing out happens here. Conditions apply. Visit rbc.com slash avion. Just to get... I had time. I had time, which was great. I lost 30 for that Whoa

Yeah That's a lot weight Yeah But I had done it I did this one film Called the Bang Bang Club Here I was just living off Lamar here And

I play this drug addicted True story about these war photographers Right before the During the apartheid Right before the first free election Mandela's election Kevin Carter is his name He won a Pulitzer

For this epic shot that he took Got a lot of flack for and ended up taking his own life um but that i had 30 days to prep and i lost 35 in 30 days whoa and i remember going just over i 35 here to this dock and my heart rate was fucking low 20s oh god because all i was doing was running coffee and i would uh the broth can be super salty sodium heavy so i'd filter that and then just have broth and broccoli for dinner oh my god you're just starving yourself yeah it was bad and then i got a thyroid problem from that and uh that doc that doc was like um hey you're gonna fail this uh physical just so you know and i'm like what do i got to do i'm

going to africa next week and he's like do some push-ups so i did push-ups and got my heart rate into the low 40s and he's like okay wow that's crazy yeah I was hurting on that probably kind of dying yeah that's nuts dude and then I was hurting they would shoot me out on bang bang club like just shoot your coverage and go go back to bed and then I ended up getting a nutritionist there and she helped me a little bit but that was a quick shoot but um that's where I think I fucked my body on that one wow and then koresh again lost wait for that that was great by the way thanks that fucking whole koresh story is so crazy i know man what is it like doing that movie because it's another real life yeah that was i was just prepping right there too um that was almost too long a prep

here's me saying i love prep but i had six months to get into that headspace and it just the last month i tried to pull out of the show yeah because i was just this is i was just you're holding hoarding all this energy and you i lost the way learning to play guitar and sing which was a fucking comedy

um i'm fucking terrible he was terrible too though yeah yeah that literally helped me i'd listen to dave and i'd be like wow that sucks yeah he's shit it genuinely helped me how he got people to follow him with that fucking terrible singing. If I was in that call,

we got to reevaluate. This guy is not Christ. He is not the leader. He's actually kind of fucking terrible, right? Should we leave? He sucks. His fucking music sucks. Yeah.

But. What is it like getting in the headspace of someone who's that depraved, too? And who has that kind of, like, sick control over people? Why? Figure out the world. Why? Did you figure it out? Yeah, I think so.

Yeah? Go to his childhood, which was fucking terrible. Of course. Like. You don't become a cult leader. Everything's awesome when you're a kid. Two great healthy parents. Always giving you hugs.

Siblings. And you decide to be a cult leader. Yeah. Yeah, he memorized the Bible by 15. Whoa. Which is fucking, that says enough right there. That's intense. But he was like tied to a radiator on his birthday.

and, like, abused pretty hard. I almost bought his car. Oh, my God. I tried buying his bike. He had a 1968 Camaro, and a buddy mine texted me and said, yo, David Cresh's car for sale. And he knows I'm a carhead. Are you?

I love cars, especially old muscle cars. Yeah. I got a bunch of them. I have a 69 Camaro. And I was thinking about, at the time, I didn't have any Camaro's, but I was thinking about getting like a 68 or a 69 or 67. I like the 69's a little more, a little wide body. But then I found out it was Koresh's car.

I was like, whoa, that would be wild to drive to the comedy store. And David Koresh's Mustang. In Texas. Or he's David Koresh's Camaro rather. But then I thought about it. I said, you know what? I don't want it. I don't want anything from that guy.

I don't want that energy. I don't want to hold his steering wheel. I don't want to sit in his seat. I don't want it. I don't want it. Also, what a piece of shit. That guy's a preacher. He's driving around a muscle car.

Like, for sure, right there and then. terrible singing and muscle car ego a little bit of an ego yeah a lot of ego yeah i mean not that you can't enjoy i love them i think they're right one of the greatest accomplishments of american engineering in terms of like a piece of functional artwork yeah american muscle cars i love them i'm that way with motor motorcycles too and i got to set we shot actually in uh waco wanted nothing to do with us so yeah rightfully so so we shot that in santa fe like to change that Yeah, my man. Waco's a great town, by the way.

Yeah, it's grown, like, enormously, too. But, yeah, his motorcycle came for sale, and obviously they knew we were making it. I kicked tires on it, and they wanted just, it was probably worth two grand. They wanted 15 or something, and it was just like, go fuck yourself. Right. And honestly, like you just said, what am I going to do with his motto? Yeah, I thought it was, I thought it was silly at first. And then after a while, I'll be like, no, I can't do this.

Yeah. Yeah. Before we opened up the comedy mothership in town, I was under contract for this place called the One World Theater that was also owned by a cult. Yeah. No way. Yeah, the One World Theater, you know where it is? It's on B Cave. Well, this is what's fucked up about the story.

Ron White performed there once because they have concerts there. And Ron White did stand up, and we were talking about opening up a club. And he said, you should buy that place down on B Cave. It's the fucking shit. It's a beautiful theater. It's for sale. I played there once. It's amazing. I was like, all right, Ron White's the fucking man. If he tells me, I'll go check it out. And I check it out. And I'm like, yeah, we could do this. Let's do it. And so sign the contracts, all that. And then I get a call from my friend Adam. He goes, hey, did you ever watch the documentary on that cult? I'm like, oh, no. There's a documentary. The documentary is called Holy Hell. And it's about a guy who is a gay porn star and a hypnotist that was a yoga instructor. Oh, my God. Checking every box. Yep. So his yoga instructor. And it's a yoga instructor. And he's a gay porn star. And he's a hypnotist. And he was a yoga instructor. And he's a yoga instructor. And he Hollywood and then the cult in Waco gets taken down and then he is on the run now because now the cult awareness network starts going after all these cults after Waco they're like

hey you know people's children are getting kidnapped essentially by these fucking maniacs and you know winds up being like Waco we gotta stop these cults and so he moves to Austin and changes his name and has a you know this is in the 90s you could get away with changing your name yeah nobody no And so this guy has his followers build him this theater so he can dance in front of them. Holy! The documentary is bananas. And I see the documentary, I'm like, oh my God, I got to get out of this.

After I see the documentary, I'm like, I got to get out of this deal. I got to get out. And fortunately, there was a problem. Fortunately, there was a problem. Because, you know, you got a bunch of cult members building a place. They're not going to do it to code. No. Just like his residence.

Yeah, there was a lot of shit that was wrong, a lot of wacky shit. They didn't want to pay for it. I'm like, good, let's just. So it cost me a little bit of money, and I got out of it. And then we eventually got the writs on 6th Street. And that's the perfect spot anyway. But it was the thing of being in that building, knowing what happened. I'm like, I can't handle this.

Different energy there. 200, 200 people wasted their life with this asshole for 20 fucking years. And there was a bunch of them crying at the end of the documentary. Like, I lost my life. My life is meaningless now. I thought I was going to be with them forever. Now I'm a dog walker. I'm like, oh, my God.

I know. I can't carry that in this club. I can't feel it. I'd have to tear the building down. I just thought it'd be silly. You know, oh, building built by a cult, perfect. We'll take it. But the reality is every cult winds up being the same thing.

The guy wants all the money and he wants to fuck everybody. It's almost every one of them has the same profile. And fear-based. Always. Always. Always fear-based. Always. Everybody else is the enemy.

I'm the solution. The nutty thing about this guy, though, is that he would do this thing to these people called the knowing, and you had to earn it. And when you earned it, it was this very special, ceremonious moment, and he would put his hands on their head, and he would do some to them, and these people would feel God. They would experience God. And I know that it has to be some sort of a placebo effect or psychosomatic, something where your brain triggers this energy

but all these people that called him a fraud that fucking hated him I wasted my mind they all talked about that moment like it was the greatest moment of their life still they're like I gained a connection to God and to the universe that to this day

was the most profound and loving moment of my life it's like yeah the guy was a total piece of shit scam artist con man liar everything was wrong yet he was still capable of doing that thing to them. Condition them over years.

Well, he had them thinking about the moment that it was going to come one day and then he would take it away from them and then one person would get it and they would all sit around and watch and they were like, when am I going to get it? But when they got it, they would all be like, because we know that the brain produces

psychedelic chemicals and I guess you can trick it which is, I think, what a near-death experience I think a near-death experience, your body is like, hey, it's over, flood the gates, and then... Yeah, right. It rolls through, and then you, you know, you go down the tunnel and light and all the jazz and you meet dead people.

Yeah. But this is, I think this is possible with everybody. It just have to achieve the right state of mind. I know people in Kundalini Yoga, the people that are, like, heavy into it can fucking completely trip balls. Really? You had a buddy of mine who had done DMT.

Oh, yeah. And then he really, he done DMT. a couple of times so he knew what the experience was and then he really got into kundalini yoga and he was doing it for like six months and then what is kundalini it's a very specific kind of yoga that involves like deep breath work and there's a lot of like head bobbing it's very strange but it's you achieve a dmte like state he's like you achieve a full-on psychedelic experience doing kundalini and i'm like whoa and i've always thought about like trying it and practicing it i'm like yeah same time I'm too busy

I can't think about some new thing to be obsessed with But but it's my point is that there is Some little trigger in your brain That if you can trick your brain And just snapping over to on It just I believe that part

This fucking cult guy did it to those people As much as they hated him As much as they knew he was a fraud He fucked everybody The crazy thing is like They didn't know that everybody was getting fucked And so like one guy leaves the cult and he sends out this group email like hey this guy's been hypnotized me

and fucking me for like 10 years and they're all like i thought it was only me yeah and then it became crazy where everybody had a story oh everybody had a story he would charge them money for these experiences and then he'd fucking of course jesus hilarious but terrible yeah and so i didn't want that building so like i didn't want koresh's car let me look at that contract again No. So when you were getting close and you wanted to pull out, was it just the heaviness of carrying around this guy's weight? Yep.

Yep. And then I called my manager, Steph, and she's like, give it a day. And then the Dowdell brothers, who wrote and directed, terrific guys. And I called John. And I think one thing that set me free probably on month three, because I was really stuck on everything we've just said of, like, Why am I playing some guy that's pretty fucking reprehensible in a lot of ways?

And a real person? Yeah. He did real damage to people. But I was judging him. And that was like really a big block for me because I couldn't understand him more. And so once I started to not cast judgment or my own judgment on him and just trying to understand and root him, then I was like, okay, I'm going to fly now of like, this is his child. this is why he's doing this and so it's your guys's job can judge away and do all this but for me to play this guy i can't bring that to him right right right yeah yeah so that helped to be that piece

shit yeah yeah yeah i got to do it and try and root that when you got done with the role was it like a thing that you had to cast off yourself like bang bang club fucked me i was hurting pretty bad after i didn't know my process very well and uh you know um kevin car was just really really troubled and I think it was mandrax which is an animal tranquilizer that he would take oh boy yeah and he would have um night terrors and all this there's photos of him like they called it the bang bang because they had these police scanners and once they would this is early 90s in South Africa and once they heard it on the scanner it's like a bang bang and they would be there a lot of times

before the cops like some kind of civil rights or civil fight would happen and they would get hear it on the scanner and they'd go like scoooo kind of shit they'd get there before the cops a lot of time or the military and they'd be in the middle of this shooting it uh photographing it and you see picks of keb that are just like him in like one shoe high hiding behind like a fucking barrel in the middle of this gunfight like they would get really into it and then he was a guy that just kind of took everything to heart

you know of just he would see some fucking pretty abysmal shit and just be like take it you know wear it and uh it just hammered him and so he would take these drugs and just to sleep and just to get over or get through it um but yeah that was really tough coming out of him just because I didn't know myself

enough or process be able to really kind of separate. You almost like became a part of him? Yep. And then the weight and all that. And then with Dave, yeah, I was so ready to gain the weight back and just wipe my hands with it. I always go in a motorcycle trip after and that sets me free, helps me a lot. I'll write letters and just burn them. That helps a lot.

they say when you're like if I get therapy or something or it's like write a letter and literally watch it burn and that is something like that's a mind trick I'm sure just like if there's trauma or something figure out a way to let it go that way yeah yeah yeah ceremonial purging exactly yeah so so that was bang bang was harder yeah yeah on me because you would like not you hadn't been used to carrying around someone else's thoughts exactly and that was the first time i started having really bad nightmares in south africa and um and i just that started fucking with me a lot and then i was really happy it was only a four-week shoot um did you try that tranquilizer whatever the fuck it is no no i've only smoked weed three times in my life

nothing else nothing else little booze little booze yeah yeah um first time but just weed yeah savages with Oliver Stone. Oh, no. Oliver goes hard. He does. I was surprised he still smokes weed. Oh, my God. Yeah.

And I was in rehearsal, and he asked me, and I hadn't smoked weed ever before. Oh, my God. Yeah. And I'm playing this guy, this obviously seal, but that smokes weed, grows weed, sells weed, gets into the cartel. And you smoked with Oliver Stone the first time? No, my first time he gave me some of. his medicinal and I went with a buddy who smokes weed all the time and I was staying at the Shangri-La in Santa Monica while we were filming and my buddy brought over a bong a water bong.

Oh no. Oh, no, that's not how you do it. If you get to do it the first time, this is what I tell you to do. Just go like this. That's it. That's it. Just a little hit. You got to dip your toes in there.

My drug is also known as Kuilutes. Oh. Oh, interesting. That's what quailudes are. Wow. Quailudes are a brand name for it. What does it say it's doing to your brain? It's a muscle relaxing for insomnia.

There you go. How do you say the word? Methacqualone? Methacqualone. Combination of drug known as mandrax. So primarily in Europe containing 250 milligrams of metacolone and 20 milligrams of diphthylone. Diphonhydramine. Diphonhydramine?

In a single tablet. Whoa. Commercial production was discontinued in many countries during the mid-1980s due to widespread misuse addiction and associated public health concerns. Yeah, you know when a popular drug gets pulled. It's pretty bad. Yeah, that was no joke. So just because that was the first time you'd ever tried carrying around someone's thoughts,

that was worse because he was so fucked up. Yeah. And I was that actor where it was like, I got to be in trauma, too, then. Right, right, right, right. Definitely. Real. Yeah. But it comes out.

That's the fucked thing. It comes out in the role. Like, it seems real. Like, as nutty as Daniel Day Lewis's process is, when that motherfucker is that guy and there will be blood, you believe it. Oh, my God. I drink your milkshake. He's fucking there, man. He's dialed in.

He's the best. But it's just that process. It's got to be fucking. Soul crushing. Yeah. Because you lose you. Definitely. You lose you and now you're some fucked up person.

Yeah. Like David Koresh. Yeah. You're having nightmares living in a fucking mini hotel room in South Africa. Like, lonely as fuck. Yeah, it's no joke. That was no joke. But I've learned my process a lot more.

Did you have to refine it on your own? Did you get help? Yeah. It was Waco that really kind of set me straight in my process, really help. me figure out like my me because it's all self exploratory shit as well as is acting and uh and then i you're just way more conscious of it of like okay like even with relationships of like okay that's i i can get quite short like be like true detective i was oddly an asshole through the whole thing and i had my best friend of 30 years with me helping me on that and i was drinking like a

to blackout and that's not me I don't drink much but I was just a fucking mess and my buddy was like played in the NHL HL was a fighter like he would fucking murder me you get shitty with him really shitty with him

and I would poke him that's booze bro I know it's the worst I know man it's the worst for that so many drunk people get themselves into situations that they really should not be in and I would Coke him, man, and we go to this shithole bar.

It's called Sports Harbor. I don't even know if it's open anymore, but I would fuck around. And I didn't have to find out, but I definitely was getting that really I was conscious of it. And he would have to have a moment with me of like, hey, you said this last night or. Do you think it was partly because you're trying to play a detective and detectives are kind of, yeah, all fucked up? Yeah, in the closet, just a mess. So do you think that's what it was? it was like yeah i do yeah because after i shed it or after it wrapped i was with my sis

right after but i was fine i didn't touch anything but during i was no bueno wow even getting ready for this it's i play this um director of corrections in texas it's a true story about uh the longest hostage situation in te in the u.s in a prison it's 11 day hostage negotiation and Freddie Carrasco is going to be played by Luna Diego Luna who's I can't wait to see what he fucking does with this but um I play the director of corrections so we're negotiating for 11 days and I and he's got to be quite hard on his in on the guys in his war room and he kind of comes in and he takes over the negotiation um and he's never done a negotiation before so he makes a mistake here or there and he

he fucking pays the piper psychologically for it because it doesn't end great and and so I'm starting to get into that mindset and when I'm with a buddy or something like that I can be quite short and you start to see it filtering in

I'm like okay Jim is settling in me like I can start to feel it a little bit more I get a little more reactionary yeah that's so creepy it's like it's Like you're getting haunted. You're kind of getting haunted by your characters.

But that's, dude, that's why you're so good. Oh, thanks. I think that's, there's something to that, man, because you're fucking believable. You know, like, I've seen you in a bunch of movies, but it doesn't matter whatever the fuck you're doing, I believe, even though I know, oh, that's Taylor Kitch. Yeah. I've seen him in Lone Survivor. I've seen him in this. I've seen him in that.

When you're in that, the same as the Daniel Day-Lewis thing, that's, he's that guy. He's that fucking guy. And even though you know who he is, that's how good. good he is that he's still that guy even though you know who the fuck that is it's like the trick works that fucking monologue daniel day has on the porch oh he's like i don't to his brother i think it is where he goes i don't like people yeah oh all fucking time yeah he is the best to do it's such a complicated character he played too i know it was so much to it he's he's got something coming out soon too his son i think directed it which is going to be a fucking banger

I think he plays a soldier that comes back or... Oh, I saw a trailer. Yeah, that's right. I saw a trailer recently. Yeah. That fucking thing of carrying a guy around like that, whether it's the detective or Koresh or the bang bang guy, it's like, that's got to be fucking exhausting.

Yeah. Because you're like real light in real life. You're friendly and like, hey, what's up? How you do it? I was because I didn't know. I didn't know what you're going to be like. Same. It's different, you know.

I heard horror stories of you. Have you really? No. No. I tried to be nice. I was just with Sheridan the other day. Oh, Taylor? I love that guy.

Yeah, man. I fucking love him. And, of course, Pete and every car, everyone's like, you're going to have a fucking blast. Yeah. No, for sure. Everybody told me that about you, too. Oh, great. Yeah.

But, you know, you don't know. I know until you meet someone. But I'm glad I didn't meet you while you're on full detective in full detective and full character you know because full character's fucking crazy you're kind of haunted yeah you got to live it you got to live it i think i mean you look at anybody that's great at anything you have to that it's amount it's the amount of sacrifice you're willing to give to it yeah you have to be truly all in all the time and i think it's that like the fear of failure and also i don't want to fucking watch it and be like oh catch you didn't right right right that would kill me right right right that would fucking

kill me yeah the watching a guy phone it in is the worst feeling as a a consumer of the show like a you know passenger on the ride watching someone phoning in like no dude do another take yeah that's the one they keep motherfucker yeah what are you doing you going through a divorce yeah what's going on they're out there man you can't can't lock in yeah i've worked with some pretty fucking huge names that have apologized after a film or at the premiere or something that were like hey

I'm sorry man I just wasn't there that's crazy in my head I'm like no I know yeah I had Charlie Sheen on yesterday no way yeah and he was talking about his time doing anger management about he was still really fucked up and just doing way too many drugs and he was trying to be locked anybody was

and he just didn't do it and then he didn't want to do it anymore so he was miserable while he was there and he's all fucked up and he's like apologizing to everybody now. I was like, I am so... Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's a sweetheart of a guy, like a really nice guy. He's sober eight years. Whoa. Amazing. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Damn. But, you know, you can see the itch behind his eyes. Right. You know, that's a struggle. That's sober is a struggle sober because that guy went through it for so many years. Yeah. The stories that he was telling about like literally how 1 a.m. to 7 a.m. would go by like that. And And then all of a sudden, someone was pounding on his door. It's time to go to work.

He's like, I am high as fuck on crack. And he goes, and so I have to lie in bed. So he'd lie in bed. I try to close my eyes. He goes, I'm not taking a nap. He goes, I'm cracked out of my mind. My whole body's vibrating. And he goes, and then I took an ice cube, and I stuck it up my ass.

Get out of here. And the ice cube woke him up and got him back. Like, he was literally falling asleep on the set. And he said, give me a couple minutes. And he shoves an ice cube up his ass. That movie That movie writes itself Bro, that guy went so hard

How do you figure that out? You know, you're just going to the fridge I gotta wake up He's literally falling asleep How do I wake up? It's shove an ice cube up my ass I guess it works What were the other choices?

Stick a fork into an electric socket How did you get to an ice cube up your asshole Oh my God But he was going that hard And, you know, it just... He's so lucky he didn't die. So... Were the uppers and downers and everything, right?

The crack! Well, people that he... The girl he smoked crack with the first time he ever smoked crack with, eventually overdosed. Ah. He told a story about the first time he smoked crack. This girl who was a crackhead, she gave him a blowjob while he took his first hit of crack. He said, to this day, I can't top that experience. He goes, to this day.

He goes, to this day. He goes, to this day, this is the greatest moment of my life. Wow. Holy shit. Like, oh my God. Isn't there a doc on him that just came out? Yeah, that's what it's about. Yeah, he wrote a book and he did a dog.

Oh, he did? Yeah. And now he's doing movies again. Is he? Yes, he's excited to be working again. Wow. A little bummed out that it took so long for him to get a job again. Well.

Yeah. I mean, you know, you got a lot of investment. Yeah. A lot of money. It's a lot of insurance on the studio, yeah. But now he's sober for eight years. Wow. Good for him.

Holy shit. What is he like 60 now? He's in the 60s. He actually looks good. Does he? So for a long time he looked terrible. And I said to him, I go, do you look better than I've seen you? I mean, I hadn't seen him ever in real life.

It was the first time I ever met him. But he looked good. He looked healthy. Like remarkable for a guy that's gone through. Damn, that's just fucking abused. 20 years of redlining the machine. Just bang! Damn.

20 years of crack. I'm going to watch that doc. Oh, the dock is great. It's really entertaining, too. It's really well shot. It's really well shot. Yeah, really well edited. I mean, that whole family is pretty epic.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Martin. Martin, come on. Yeah. Yeah, no, we talked about Apocalypse now, too, which was really crazy because he was on the set when he was eight years old. Eight or ten?

Ten? Ten years old. So he was ten years old in the Philippines on the set of Apocalypse now while it was being filmed. Yeah, helicopters, fucking Robert Duvall, everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, he was there, 10. Oh, my God.

And your dad's Martin Sheen. And the Philippines back then, too. Dude, I love that movie so much. I wear this watch. This is the Willard. This is a reproduction of the watch that Martin Sheen wore. No way. Apocalypse now.

Yeah. It's my favorite watch. Yeah. Because of that. Yeah. Because, well, it's a nice watch. It's a Seiko. Yeah.

Like, they all, the Vietnam soldiers all got Seiko's. because they were like super durable and reliable. Wow, look at that. That's him with his dad. Oh, my God. Yeah, I didn't fucking get it in there, but. Oh, my God. On the set of Apocalypse now in 1979.

That is crazy. Oh, how old was Martin Sheen then? It looks pretty young. Yeah. I mean... What a legend, though. He seemed like in the movie who's in his early 30s, right? Damn.

Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. Crazy. And you wonder why. And then 10 years later, literally 10 years later, he's doing platoon. Oh, my God, yeah, yeah. Epic war movie, Oliver Stone's directing it.

Willem Defoe. Willem Defoe. Who's the other guy? The other guy with Scarsons. Tom. Who is it? Yes. Dude, that guy ruled in that movie.

Yep, he did. He seemed so scary. Willem's an amazing guy. Amazing. Yeah. That guy's, I love that guy and everything. He was great in John Wick. He's great and everything.

He really is. It's great and everything. William Defoe's the fucking man. But, like, to be there at 10, watching your dad filming the apocalypse now, and then 10 years later, you're in platoon, and Oliver North is directing you, and you're doing the narration. Like, the whole thing is nuts. 10 years. How do you adjust to that? No, you don't.

Well, that's how you adjust. one word crack well it took a while that was his drug of choice it was started with coke when that girl blow him when the girl gave him a blow job

while he was smoking crack it was crack from then on out it was like I get it now it's a hard sell damn it's just crazy that it's crazy that he's alive but one of the things that we were saying that I was talking to him about

it was like no one could understand what you went through because no one has ever done that no one has ever been Charlie Sheen at 20 years old and been in platoon, and you're the toast of the town, and you're a baby. Yeah. You know, you're just getting out of high school.

You know, like what? A baby, man. And then the world's your oyster. You're doing blow every night. It's chaos. Just nuts. You're off the rails. And every time you fail, you succeed better.

Like every time you go into rehab, there's a better movie waiting for you on the other side. There's no consequences career-wise. God. And it just keeps going hard. What was in the baseball movie? God. Major League. Oh, he was awesome in that movie.

The best. Yeah, yeah. I grew up watching that. Yeah, dude, that guy's been in some great fucking movies. He's been some great fucking movies. But to be him and to, you know, to, no, there's no blueprint for that kind of thing. What was his bottom out? Did he tell you?

He kind of, like, there was a bunch of bottoms out. Yeah, losing two and a half man or something. Yeah, it was that and there was his behavior afterwards. And then he did, he very popular. I apologize to Chuck Lori. He says, we've talked. I've apologized. We're friends now.

Like, thank God. Is he live in L.A.? Charlie? I don't wonder. Remember, did he say? Get the fuck out. I don't think he said. I don't think I asked him.

I don't know if he's still there. But he's been completely sober for eight years. Good for him. Yeah, good for him. Holy shit. Like, if he can do it. Yeah, no shit. That guy can do it.

And he seems together. Oh, both of them bad. Berringer was in that, too. That's right. That's crazy that they play. That completely different role. Berenger and Platoon was so scary. Yeah.

Scared the fuck out of me. Damn. I love that shit. Yeah. It's just amazing that guy's life arc to go from being a child on the set of Apocalypse now to 10 years later starring in Platoon. I think Apocalypse was like a two-year shoot. Three.

Yeah. We were talking about it yesterday. I thought it was even more than that. I think the entire production. They just kept asking for money to forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Francis War Copeland. Yeah.

Come on. He nailed it. To this day, I will watch that movie every now and then and just sit there and go, fuck. Back then, too, to make a movie like that, yeah. In 79? Oh, my God. Come on, man. That movie was epic.

And it was like one of the first, like, realistic war movies. Then you got platoon, like you said. Yeah, yeah. Epic. Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy that he's, you know, he experienced both of them. One as a child watching his dad and one as a star and all within the span of a decade.

Yeah. Which is like, 2015 was. 15 was yesterday, man. I know. And the most formative years, too. Ten. Yeah, ten. What were you doing at ten?

It wasn't in the Philippines. That was the other thing. He was like, I didn't know that that world existed. He goes, like, I was living in Malibu, you know, in this beautiful town on the beach, you know. Everybody's, like, happy and wealthy, and his dad's a movie star. And all of a sudden, he's in the Philippines. And he's like, in Francis Ford, Coppola had all these sketchy people on set all the time. Like, he was an artist.

He's a nut. Like, everybody, come on and hang out. There's all these weird fucking people around. Three year fucking shoot. Yeah, in the jungle. Yeah, literally. Using helicopters from the army. And he was saying that one time the army had to take the helicopters back because there was rebels and there was a, like, insurgency.

Yeah, they had to borrow the helicopters. There's another movie. They had the whole scene rigged. They had the river was rigged with explosives. They were ready to film the scene. And they were like, no, we need our helicopters back. Holy fuck. We need to go kill some people.

That's old school movie making, though. Wow, man. I mean, if you could go back in time to be on the set of any movie ever, what would it be? Damn. I mean, I've got to, I had dinner with Gibson one night, Mel Gibson, and I've worked with, what's his, Brennan Gleason. So maybe Braveheart. That was a big one for me. That was a big one

Yeah Boy that was a movie That made everybody Want a sword fight after I know She just fucking go fuck something up Totally To get out of that movie

Truly God damn That one was big When he screams freedom at the end I mean come on When the When the king Pulls his

He pulls the helmet off The king And he sees he's fighting For the other side And then you cut to Gibson There's those fucking blue eyes That are trying He's trying to register

That it's the king His king And that moment for me was just like, oh, my God. Yeah. Just beautiful. Yeah. Mel Gibson can make a fucking movie dog. He really can.

He really can. You know what I watched again recently? Apocalyptic. Amazing. Same, by the way. It's a blockbuster movie that where no one speaks English. Yep. And no big movie stars.

Yeah. No big movie stars. No one speaks English. It's fucking amazing. Yeah, it is. And he used like real people that lived there. Yeah, good for him, man Good for him

What a fucking swing Yeah He's a fascinating guy Like his brain is like He's just rattling all over the place All the time First time he's on the podcast He had a pen

And he couldn't stop clicking it Oh God Like the entire time Click click click click click click click click click click You fucking crazy person Put the pen down Oh man That was a cool dinner though

He told me Some stories of Braveheart I'm just riding the horse To all these cameras Like ripping the horse forced to one camera, seeing the shot, going to the next, seeing the shot, going in, doing the speech, going, looking at playback. Wow. Just like, and then he's, like, falling asleep, standing up.

He was so tired. Like, that's, like, epic stuff. And talk about realism. Like, those fights and, like, still holds up. Yeah. That soundtrack, come on. That was an incredible movie. Like, my dad played the bagpipes.

He played actually in the World Championships in 95 in Scotland. Really? Yeah. From Canada? Yeah. Went to Scotland? Yeah. Wow.

And then he, so the pipes to me, like I remember he was an alcoholic and not a lot. He wasn't around a lot. And he, I remember some of my best memories was like, you know the fucking sound of the pipes when you're putting air in? It's the worst sound in the world. It's like a rabbit, like getting bludgeoned. And we would be at Christmas. All my cousins, his side of the family, and he would walk downstairs and you could hear this, these fucking pipes getting air put in. And you could tell he had a few and he would come up and stand in the middle of the living room and just rip the pipes.

And everyone's just like full stop and just beautiful. And he'd play in Barbados. He worked in Barbados doing a lot of like the pavers, the golf pass. And he'd play at funerals. Wow. How did he do in the world championships? I don't know. That's a good question, but it's a great story.

So primeval, I was fly fishing in the Madison, just West Yellowstone. I had four days off, so I went home to a boseman and was fly fishing. Only my favorite spot in West Yellowstone, my bro calls me, and I'm like, I just caught like a 20-inch rainbow or something, and I'm fucking ripping into my brother being like this fucking i'm killing it rods on fire right now and he's like uh so my dad raced cars as well and his race car name or he's we called him gooey growing up and he's like gooey's got 48 hours to live and i was like ah fuck all right um literally just verbatim like that like i saw him the last 19 years i saw him twice and one time was in montana and he had early onset dementia

and my brother drove him down. Great stories there. But so I drive, I take my adventure van, drive up to Colonna, my hometown. And I've got this big beard from Prime Evil. And I hadn't talked to one of my brothers in years. And then I was still close with the oldest and get to the hospital. And he's, I turn his wheelchair around. And I'm like, hey, hey, gooey.

And he's like, who? the fuck are you whoa yeah and he's on like oxygen and I'm like I'm your youngest son and he's like what are you doing here and I'm like I'm just here to say hi and hang out for a couple days and he was like on point

like his brain was going and and it was a little like I didn't see my one bro forever so how long it had been since you'd seen him before that years a couple years yeah probably two years and is it dementia that he didn't recognize you or the beard?

No, the beard. He was the beard. And I was limping with that fucking toe. And so we go up to his room. This is a Friday at noonish. And he's great, though. Like, so we had this young doctor. He's like 40.

Great guy. I go and sit down with him. He's like, I'm like, dude, he's dialed. Like, what do you mean he's going to fucking die? like he's on point and he's like this is what happens sometimes when somebody like this he doesn't know he's dying but he is once like all three of us brothers all three of his sons were there and it's like a high and everything he's just dialed into it all and just very present because everybody's there yeah and he's like the doc is like man I have a feeling all three sons haven't been together with him and I'm like in what? 25 years and so we were all there and I had my assistant back in Santa Fe and I was like hey my dad played for a Kelona pipe band and I was like call her I'm like you got to help me here get a piper and to come play for him at the hospital and she's like on it and she was great

and the next the next or Friday night I'm like gooey what do you want for breakfast and he's like give me something i shouldn't have give me like a fucking Costco muffin and uh and a stupid amount of whipped cream and a coffee and so of course i go overboard and bring him this fucking ridiculous the big chocolate chip muffin and and uh the coffee in the next morning but he had gone from like dialed to he's hurting and uh so we got this piper to come we fucking we're not allowed to do this we bring him out in the courtyard and uh and the piper comes and he's asleep and she's like uh what do you what do you want me to play like they know of my dad that he had played for the polona pipe and and i'm like i don't know many songs and um i just obviously amazing grace and stuff like that and so she just

rips it and he wakes up and we're all buckled emotionally right because this whole the pipes to us is just like that's our father that's like our only memory one of our only memories for him so um she plays two songs and he's falling asleep again and he wakes up and he's and i'm like gooey you got one more song and he's like okay he was a mama's boy loved his mom and uh and she was amazing and um he's like play one for my mother so i think at that point he knew he was about to go see her and uh yeah So we have all this on video and his brother was there and his wife and his best friend growing up. And so we fucking, the nurse comes out after the pipes. They're not obviously the whole fucking hospital can hear this.

And so we're obviously got caught. And she's like, bring him up now. And so we're like, yes, yes, ma'am. So we fucking have them in his bed. and you know those like wheelchair ramps it's like a hard 90 degree he's out

he's sleeping and my middle I'm the youngest of three boys my middle bro is big and then my other bro's like six two big boy too and we're fucking we got him and we're stuck

in that turn so now it's like weekend at Bernie's and this is like a pain movie where it's like Like, he's fucking, I'm like, hey, Gouy's stuck. Boys, he's stuck.

We can't get over this fucking corner because the bed's too long. And we're dying like, we needed a laugh. And so I looked down and Gouy's arm is like fucking crooked, jammed in that bar. Oh, no. So I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, back up a bit. So we back, loosen it up. And it's like, it's not broken, but we, he didn't feel. any of this shit. So we're like crying, laughing because it's like a weekend at fucking

Bernie's moment. It's our dark humor, man. You got to laugh in those moments. Yeah, I guess you have to. Yeah, because we were just buckled 10 minutes earlier. Get him to the room and he's in and out, sleeping. And the next day, on Father's Day, I had to drive back to Bozeman and we have dark humor and so everyone's in the in the room and I'm like all right get the fuck out of this room everybody like like a joke but the nurses are like oh my god what happened I'm like oh I'm sorry it's a joke I just want 10 minutes with him and then I got to go I got to go back to work but I'm going to say goodbye and so they leave and he's like kind of in and out of consciousness and he would wake up and look right through you

Like he's trying to be with you or present or I don't know. That's kind of how I took it. And he's fighting consciousness, I guess. And small little side note, I was driving. And the shaman who was helping me for primeval. He texted me once I got into Canada. And he was like, hey, I had a dream. You got to fucking call me.

And I'm like, I don't know if I believe this stuff. but I'll call you and so I call him and he's like hey something's up and I'm like I've told three people that my dad's going and he's like I had a fucking dream that you're about to lose someone I don't know if they're close to you and I hate calling this is a crazy call but I'm going to listen to this and I'm like man I'm on my way to say goodbye to my dad he goes okay that's what it is yeah how weird is that yeah what is that I know I don't know what that is I'm still and he's like how tell me about your dad what what kind of guy was he I'm like not very present he drank a lot and uh you know some regrets of course and um this and that and he goes

okay I'm going to set up an altar and pray for him and this is what I think is going to happen he's not going to go cross over very easily because of the life he's lived and so when I'm one on one with my dad I started the conversation I'm like gooey it's me and uh out and he had uh soft hands that's one thing I remember so I grabbed his hand and our humor I'm like yeah these are a little fucking soft gooey like maybe you should have worked harder like no calluses like nothing just you know just trying to and then I went into like the nonprofit and I'm going to do this and I'm going to try and give back and this and that and I promised him and um and during that conversation he would try and like be conscious and he was fighting to be there present yeah but he was I think gone

yeah um and then two hours I left and then I on the way home I broke all and he had passed on father's day and then um then I was back to work on Tuesday fucking riding banana bread my horse Yeah, with, like, Shea Wiggum, who's an amazing actor. He played Jim Bridger in that, but, um, yeah, Pete was great with me on that. Did that help you, like, hold a feeling of loss for your, your character? I think it, I mean, how crazy art simulating life and vice versa. Especially in a guy morning. Right.

And then all of a sudden, like, my father who I didn't really have died, but it's still your dad, you know. Yeah. And, um, and Pete was like, hey, this you know do you want to ride banana bread into this into this shot or walk them or and uh i'm like i'll ride them in and i was doing a scene with shea wiggum and it was beautiful because i was upset that some knew that it's my news to tell you know but some had already knew the crew so i was a little rattled at that when i got to set because everyone was very fragile with me which i understand right but i was like whoever told you guys it's not your story to fucking tell it's mine if i want to share it with the crew or whoever but so i was a little

upset on and set but then a lot it was so beautiful man because a lot of these older guys on set would just come up and be like man my father was this guy to me this guy but you know i just i feel you and they would share all their father stories so it was a beautiful experience and um pete was great and betty gilpin was amazing and and that scene i just bucked like walked away from the uh fort bridger and i just was pretty emotional and and uh pete was like amazing and then we shot the scene he's like go home and then i got to my trailer and literally to the minute uh of when i went down that was the minute he got cremated wow yeah and then um but i do think it it was really cathartic to be playing that guy and then i had a beautiful sweat after

And I mourned them the right way, you know. It did knock me, though, for like, I'd say six months after. I was like, what am I doing? Am I doing everything or enough? Am I living my life enough? Because even if he's not in your life, you're still, like, to witness that is, it was heavy. Yeah. But I had mourn him right.

And, you know, I'm in a good spot now. But it was an interesting thing of you just take stock, I guess. I've never lost somebody close to me, especially in that way. So, yeah, it was just a blessing to be still on set working and doing that. Yeah, sometimes you just need to appreciate people. And sometimes it takes a loss before you appreciate others sometimes. It's just like you just get too used to people. You get used to them being around.

You take them for granted. And then if they're gone, you just... That's, you know what, Joe? That's what I was fucking literally saying. He's just gone. When I was... I lived in New York at a best friend that was a drug addict. And he was a crack addict at one point in time.

And then later, he started getting into harder stuff, like opiates. And he died of an overdose. And I moved to L.A. in 94, but, you know, we stayed friends. We hung out. He would come out to visit me. I'd go to visit him, but he was always fucked up. He was always a mess. Came to my house once, detoxed. I didn't know that that's why he wanted to come to L.A., but he came to L.A. and he was just so sick. He just laid in bed for four or five days. And then, you know, a couple days later, I had to go back to New York. But he died of an overdose. And another buddy of mine that I'm good friends with called me up that we were all tight together and called me up. And it just never made sense. It's like, how is he not here? Yeah. How was he gone?

Like, it just, it just fucked me up where I knew he was going to die. I knew it was going to happen, but I couldn't believe it happened. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, you got to go back to work. I know. Back to life, you know? Just, and you feel so, like, a piece of view is missing. Yeah.

Like, the world doesn't make sense. Truly. Like, a person isn't in the world anymore. It's so hard to imagine until it actually happens. So abstract, almost. And like you said, even if, like, I had, I had enough time to understand he was going. Right. But when they're gone, it's just totally different.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you just take stock and you're like, okay, am I doing enough? Am I whatever it is? Just tell people you appreciate them sometimes. Yeah. That's, sometimes that's all it takes. And forgave them.

Yeah. Like I didn't hold. I wasn't that son that was like, fuck, where were you? Why didn't you do this for me? Blah, blah, blah. I wasn't. He is who he is. Yep.

And you learn that as you get older. Yeah. People are who they are. And some people also, they grew up with monsters. Yeah. That's the other problem. If you try to pretend that, you know, your parents should have their shit together because you have your shit together and they were your parents. No.

Well, who raised them? They were raised by people living in the Depression. Yeah. You know what I mean? They were raised by animals. Yeah. Yeah. We've only been truly civilized.

Truly. Humans. I've only been truly civilized for the last few decades. Truly. think most of history is just horrific barbarism it's just slaughter and yeah and crime and repeat yeah yeah over and over and over again until we developed the ability to communicate how bad that is and it doesn't fix it it it fixes it a little it gets it makes it a little better but still still even today you know there's but the pipes

so every time i hear the pipes i'm like ah it gets it gets it Yeah, oh, I'd imagine now. I do want to go to Scotland. Scotland's beautiful. Yeah, I haven't been there a few times. Really? Yeah, I love it. Yeah.

People are very cool. It's not overcrowded. And if you can get past the rain, which is kind of a good break every now, especially if you live in L.A. Yeah, yeah. It's a good break to see rain everywhere where they're like, good luck starting a fire out there. Yeah, yeah, right.

And to go into the highlands and maybe take a motorcycle trip or I do want to go and watch those world championships. Oh, yeah. Oh, the Highland games? guy i hired up three pipers for his funeral oh wow and i pull in i got this on fucking video and uh i pull into the parking lot a little church in the middle of my town and they're doing the fucking putting the air in the bag and i was like this time it crushed me and i took a video from my truck and i went out introduce myself and he's like you're not going to fucking believe this and i'm like

He's an older guy. And he's like, I played next to your father at the World Championships. Wow. Wow. Like just randomly, this is the guy playing the funeral. Wow. And he was fucking amazing. And he stayed a while.

And then it was like this little church. You go into this little gymnasium kind of spot. And he stayed and played in the back. And some of my, that I didn't know, but some of his. My dad's favorite songs, so I have those on video too, but it was just beautiful. Wow. Yeah. And it brought all three boys back together, you know.

Now we're on good terms. It's been super cathartic. I was the only one to speak at the funeral. And I'm in the pew, and it's his sister, who I hadn't seen in a decade. And my two brothers and their kids, and my oldest is just a puddle. he's wearing sunglasses and just a mess and the priest was actually quite great he was funny and

and then my other brother was in front of me and he was a puddle and he doesn't like speaking and I don't either as me I get a little nervous or whatnot I'm always good if I'm in character or hiding behind something but the priest was like okay

now's the time to say something and the whole church is just like and I look at Damon my other brother Brody and then Damon looks back at me priest looks at me he's like now's the time oh so you just had to

decide it was you yeah and then my Auntie Lee just squeeze my hand I'm like I'm fucking saying something aren't I she's like yes you are so I get up and I just said you know If there's any light to this whole situation, it's that all three of us brothers are back on great terms now.

Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's great. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. And then right back to Prime Evil. Yeah, right back to Prime Evil. Go get on banana bread. Take it out on those motherfuckers.

Man. Yeah, what a trip. What a trip. Yeah, that is a crazy experience, man. When you were doing the Koresh thing, what was the thing that fucked you up the most about playing him? About even preparing to play him. Trying to root him emotionally to those circumstances

that were so foreign, like the emotional beats of like, I just didn't understand it. I didn't understand how someone could do what he did. And then he was very woe with me. Like he played the victim in. incredibly manipulatively well. And I would always say he's like a great coach.

And he would, a great coach would be like with you, he could train you and push certain buttons. But then he'll do something totally different with someone else and incredibly manipulative. So I think just trying to root that and understand, I don't think I'll ever understand some of the actions, obviously, to that level, like how someone can do. that um but it is all out of fear and insecurity and trauma like that part of it

yeah did understand and memorizing the bible is a defense mechanism because when he's with there was over 20 theologians that would get on the call with him and if you and i listened to uh child protective service calls uh obviously all the nesner calls uh which was the played by michael shannon who's amazing and and every time he got his back to the wall and they had a point

or had something or had a level up on him he would go right into Bible speak which nobody could keep up with him on so he would gain that upper hand and I would just go into a fucking dialogue about a dragon with one eye

is about to come and show its face and bear its teeth and take the children like what the fuck do you say to that. You know, if you're on the call. Right, right, right. And you're trying to have a rational conversation of like, let the children out.

Right. We want these kids out. And he goes right. And he just goes into this Bible speak. You're like, there's no real rebuttal to that. Right. And that was, he did this with child protective services too on those calls. He would just go right.

And that was such an anchor to him because nobody could play. a card like that. Right, because as soon as you say words from the Bible, you're right. You have to be right. And he's married to it. You're literally quoting the Bible. Yeah. And you're, you're going to argue with me? You're arguing with the Bible. Right. It's Trump card. Truly. Yeah. Truly. And he would go to like Oxford and have debates with theologians in the classes. And that's how he recruited a lot of people that he would win these debates and they would come and join, come to Texas. Like, really, like, he would write these letters to people and send tapes to Australia and get them to come. Wow.

Yeah. Like, this was incredibly smart guy. Like, that you have to give to him. Isn't it so fucked up that someone with a brain that works that well would choose to use it in that way? All just fear. I mean, even the way, like, he's talking about God and the end of days and how he, you. He needs to bear, I think, around 22 children that are going to go up with him and ride a cloud up there and all these crazy things. He had the answers to aliens.

What was that answer? I can't remember, but people I do want to know. To your point, though, it's like he ended up shooting himself in the head, right? Which, ironically, you don't go to heaven if you do that, which is, but also, like, he does all this shit. And I don't know just that was a big thing for like Paul Sparks and I who played my right hand man of like when we shot that death scene of like man like I do wish to your point he was still alive and we could learn shit you know all these guys they end this like they drink the fucking Kool-Aid in the bed or the fucking like it's such a fascinating perspective that I do wish we could break that down and maybe learn something from this then just. just he in shooting himself in the head and burning a burning in the house what you could learn what you could learn like especially after the event like the raid on the compound and everything like what all the people are dead like what could you learn from that guy then he's going to be so

fucked up yeah and i mean nine people survived that one of the survivors tibito was there with us his drummer oh wow every day whoa And, yeah, and what did he say he was like? It goes back to your point that he still was thinking that he's coming back. Oh, my God. Yeah. Wow. So he, I know.

Wow. And this didn't come out until our last week is shooting. Because I got along incredibly well with him. And he did give us, he did write a great book and give me insight to moments that I asked to be in the show. but I mean he was going I don't know to North Dakota or the Dakotas to someone had blueprints for an alien

warship and he was going to see these blueprints and we're just in between takes we're in between takes sitting in our set chairs and me and Paul Sparks and we're like hey what are you doing after this after we rap and he went on and told us he was going to look

at blueprints to this worship and we're like okay copy that yeah so those are the type of guys though that wind up in cult yeah yeah yeah sweet man like very helpful was great to us and was very open but i mean a lot of majority of people are followers right so well there's a lot of people out there that have brains that don't really work that well right just truly that's just how it goes It's a very unfortunate roll of the dice, but your brain does not let you navigate through life very well, and you need someone to hold your hand

and tell you what to do, even if it's completely illogical. And those people wound up becoming followers. I think it was the new light. He called it the new light. This is a while ago, but I think it was the new light. Dave woke up, and he got everyone together,

and he's like, I just had word with God, and it's the new light, something. And it's where I'm going to, I'm the only one now that is going to sleep with the women. And this guy named Norm, I think he was Australian or anyways, this guy was like, fuck that shit. I'm out. And like 20, 30 people laughed. But a lot stayed, right?

A lot stayed. Yeah. You're always going to get people that stay and then they think that if they stay, he'll like them even more now. And those other losers who are in the way of them getting attention from Dave, now I'm going to be tighter. I'm staying. Fuck that. Yeah. I'm team correct. You can fuck my wife, bro.

With their fucking jersey on. Nuts. It is, man. It is. It's a weird thing that people have, like, encoded in us to look for a leader. I know. Very strange. I know.

You know, I think it's just from tribal DNA. That's what I think. Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought about that. If when we were groups of like 150 people, the only way we could survive, you've got to listen to the wisest, most experienced person. And that's the tribal leader. That's how it always was. It was the greatest warrior, the one who knew where the fish were, the guy who knows what you're supposed to eat and not eat and where the danger is.

And that guy's going to help you, keep you alive. And we always have that in everything. We have it in businesses. There's always like one top monkey at the top of the pile. The carrot. That fucking carrot. It's weird. But you see it in chimpanzees too, man. It's crazy. It's a primate behavior. All those chimpanzees, they have a tribe leader. They have one guy who's the fucking top champ.

He's running shit. It's weird, man. It's like it's encoded in us. And so for people that aren't that smart, someone like David Koresh can totally exploit that and go, I am the leader. You're like, wow, I'm so glad I met you. I was lost without you. You are found now, my son. You are found. And I'll sound like, that guy's so confident. Yeah. He must be right. Yeah. I'm not confident. Yeah.

He did say tanks were coming and they're here. So literally, that was a big moment. That was a big moment. Wow. Yeah. That must have been freaking out. The seven seals. He was rewriting the seven seals, his final days.

Oh, boy. I know. The whole raid on the compound thing is nuts. It is. Like when you see the fire coming out of the tanks, you're like, what did you guys do? Yeah. There's a guy that, ironically, was dicted a guy. his lawyer and he was speaking in Santa Fe when we were shooting this so I'm like full

fucking stop we're going to hear Dick de Guren speak and speaking about Waco he's speaking about his experiences as a lawyer wow and he did and I went and introduced myself and there's a crazy story it was Dave's mom who called him and was like this is what's happening would you go help blah blah he was on a fishing trip I think and he's like yeah I'm going to go so He showed up to the compound on the perimeter that was set. And he's like, I'm that guy's lawyer in that house. You need to take me over there. FBI puts him in a fucking tank.

And he goes to the front door in a tank. And the door has this big piano. I've tried getting this in the show and we couldn't. So there's a big piano at the front door, blockade. Dave wasn't allowed to walk by the windows, all this kind of stuff. This is deep into the 51-day stand-off. And Dave's right-hand man, and played by Paul Sparks and another, his lawyer, Harvard grad, I think, answer the door. And Dick's like, oh, I see the bullet holes in the ceiling, a couple bodies that the ATF didn't allow you to take out.

You got a case here, but where's Dave? and they show them the house and all this kind of stuff and so they're back in the foyer and the piano's against the wall and they're talking and he's like okay I don't

I want to help but I don't know where Dave is and he's leaving and he's like you got a fucking case and the right hand man just goes Dave was in the fucking piano listening to this whole thing

what What a psycho. And so he got back in the tank, and Dave got briefed of their walk through there. And anyways, Dick DeGieran was his lawyer on that. What a fucking story, though. How crazy. And I wanted to be in that piano and shoot that. Yeah.

That would have been unbelievable. Yeah, that would have been an important part. I know. It's an important part of the story. It really is. That's how nuts he was. Yeah. He hit in the fucking piano.

Yeah. So scared to get shot. or didn't trust anything. God. But those guys, apparently in that tank, they were, like, ripping Dick Degeren and, like, spitting on them and doing this kind of shit because they're like, you do know

they just killed a bunch of ATF guys in that shootout as well. And you're going to go fucking be this guy's lawyer? Fuck you. Yeah. Right. So. It's a lot.

What started off the feud? I don't even remember, like, who's, how did bullets wind up flying yeah so it was Dave had he was selling like homemade bulletproof vests and was like had these I know fucking and the ATF were kind of spiraling out like their funding was about they were about to get defunded and they needed a win they needed it what was it the Ridge Ruby yeah yeah There you go. So they dropped the ball huge on Ruby Ridge, right? I'll say that again. Yeah. So which is at the very beginning of Waco, and they needed a fucking win.

Here, find a cult leader into weapons, selling ammunition, I think, and bulletproof vests and this kind of stuff. And this guy's got these kids and all. This is perfect. And that started it of just like, we're going to go get this guy. And there's a famous tape that we put in the show, too, where Dave was like, you know why didn't you just like he did this run all the time and was kind of just out and about working on the house running around he had a fucking go cart track around the uh the compound and he's like why wouldn't you just arrest me when i'm on a run when i'm on this or that but they needed a lot of press and they needed to get funded again so they made this a spectacle and then it fucking turned into what you saw like they were they wouldn't let fire trucks come and take that fire out that's a fact and then um they're playing that music of animals being like mutilated into the compound um yeah then they were flying the ATF flag i asked for that

to be put in but we didn't put it in but they were flying the ATF flag while it was burning down yeah it's legit wow crazy man wow they needed a win yeah and then that's so dark i know i know picture i 35 right here fucking tanks and all these armored trucks everything going down i 35 it's incredible you know and they're just sitting right in front of of the house and 51 days is fucking crazy that is crazy yeah wow i know it's just hard to believe that they would do that. But then you read the Ruby Ridge thing. Yeah.

They shot a woman while she was holding her baby, man. The kid in the back, I think. Yeah. Yeah, the dog. Shot a kid, dog, yeah. And for what? I know. For what?

I know. I know. Yeah. It's weird, man. It's weird. You could be an assassin for the government. Yeah. And even just think you're just doing your job.

But it's like, this seems pretty fucking. criminal guys it's a lot it's a lot it's just hard to believe that they would 77 six people died 20 20 something kids driving over the house on the tank and shooting fire into it like and then they denied doing that they denied doing that with the tank shooting fire but you could you could watch it you can watch the fire come out of the tank yeah it's horrible shit man i know i know i know what a role so when you get out of that role

would you stop playing that guy man how long is it take for you you go back to being you probably I bet you've a month six weeks till you shed it yeah yeah

go do something that makes you feel you and alive motorcycle ride something get the fuck out do you like dream of that guy not anymore but you did yeah oh yeah oh yeah

yeah you're subconscious it's funny because it's like that's you marry yourself emotionally to said circumstance and so my subconscious and i'm sure a lot of actors will say it's like you're wide open and so you're more vulnerable i'm way more emotional and so because you just do the work and you're just your subconscious is open so my your dreams once i start dreaming a little fucking crazy visceral stuff that's when i know i'm getting closer For sure. Wow. Yeah. Like you're getting haunted. A little bit. It takes six weeks to detox you and fucking exercise the ghosts. And then it's like you play this guy.

You know what's fucking crazy? It was ACL. And I was walking and prepping for Waco and randomly out of nowhere. This guy is talking about Waco and that it never happened. Like this is so random And I was with my buddy who's out there And I was like Holy shit

What the We got to do this story now Like there's people out there That's just one conspiracy theory That never happened That's so crazy And I was like what There's people that believe everything

I know If you can figure out the conspiracy There's a whole group of people On Reddit dedicated to it You're late to the party Any conspiracy Just fill in the blank There's a bunch of people think space is fake.

There's a whole online community of people that don't believe in space. Yeah. Okay. There's people that believe a lot. That's a big. Yeah. Just to say that alone just feels like, sorry? Yeah, it's people that, like, flat earth is not crazy enough. They want to take it to the next level.

The next level is space doesn't even exist. Okay. You know, you know, when you get older and people will just straight up, like, when they talk at you, telling you, false shit. Right. You're like, okay. Okay. Use the, I'll bite and be like, you're an idiot.

This is what is actually happening. Right. But no, now it's like, all right. Sometimes it's exhausting, though. I know. Shut up. That's so fake. Yeah.

But they like double down, triple down on it. Yeah. Yeah, I just had one of those moments. It used to be a lot more of those people before the internet. I know, man. That's a dangerous game. Yeah. I don't read shit.

which has really helped me. Oh, yeah. It really like... That's very healthy. Yeah, it is. Like, I don't read any reviews. Good for you. Any of that.

I learned the hard way, man. I got hammered on John Carter. That put me in a dark spot. But yeah, had to rebuild everything. But yeah, you're down that tunnel and you're just like... Like, they're not just like he's a bad actor. It's like, this guy should... die. Yeah, you're a terrible person. Yeah, it's a

personal attacks. Yeah, the world would be better if you were never born like, whoa, damn, fuck, I know you're just trying to write a saucy article, but holy shit. It's a lot of fucking sauce. What a vitriol there. Yeah, yeah, it's weird, man, people, but that's, you know, they like doing that to people they don't know. It's, zero accountability. It's so easy. And now, because of social media, anybody can do it. Yeah, So, you never used to hear people's opinions before. You had a movie in 1979. The general public either went to see it or did not.

Yeah. And it was like a word of mouth thing. And then there was like Siskel and Ebert and whoever else was reviewing stuff. The five other reviewers. That was it. And if the New York Times said it was good, you'd go see it. Yeah. Yeah.

But now it's like fucking everybody. Negative always beats. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get more clicks on a negative hit. And then, you know, that was the beauty of like Friday night lights. Like I never there weren't reviews really and I was just we didn't have social fucking media We're in Austin no real producers on set or writers We're kind of Pete set it up so great and you're just going there slinging

Trying shit failing trying again. It was such an amazing experience Without all the extra yeah without any of the weight of like is this going to be successful? Yeah What does that even mean now? You know? Yeah, they well do they still do they still? do focus groups when they do a film yes they still do that yeah so that's kind of like a small yeah yeah yeah because you're like well who are these people yeah they might be like you went to ohohoma yeah like by the way i like oklahoma yeah but there's certain spots where you know like if you wanted to tank a movie you do a focus group and you know some moron community where everybody's on fentanyl yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you guys watch this movie tell me i slept through

half but i don't like that guy's hat it's did they get paid? Is that like a job? I don't know. That's a good question. I bet they do. I bet they do, which is then you have to factor in, okay, what kind of a person is getting paid to do focus groups? They might be a failure. They might be a really dull-witted, dumb-minded person and they get to decide the direction of this movie. And like, I don't like the ending. Yep. Reshoots. 20 million dollar reshoots. 40% of the audience said they didn't like the ending. 40% of the audience wouldn't pass a piss test. Yeah, true. Even like John Carter was like one of the highest tested movies in Disney's history.

And we got hammered, obviously. But it's like, I don't know how much that moves the needle or anything. I think people distrust the media more than they trust the media now. But if something sucks, like if a critic says it sucks, it still works. Like, if I see a one-star review, like, oh, that movie supposedly sucks. Yeah. Like, I don't give it any other thought. It still does work.

But if something's really good, people go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Fuck the critics. Fuck the critics. Yeah. Like, look at Adam Sandler's movies. The critics always hate them. The audiences always loves them. Always.

It's the most lopsided. He's bad in a thousand that guy. I know. It's crazy. Yeah. He's such a sweet guy, too. He's the best. He's the nicest guy of all time.

Mm-hmm. And he's a great regular actor, too. Uncut Gems was bananas. That movie came so much anxiety. And I was like, don't do it. He played that guy, that gambling addict, so well. So believable. Great directors, too.

Yeah, it's just, it's great. Smart guy, smart move. But his comedies, I love his comedies. They're fun, and I love that I can watch it with my kids. Like, he's got, they're funny. Like, Jack and Jill is funny. It's fucking silly and ridiculous, and Al Pacino's in love with his sister, who is him. It's funny, man.

It's a funny movie. It's so stupid and silly. Yeah. But the critics hate those movies. They hate them. Like, okay, what are you going to see? It's an Adam Sandler movie. This is really good at making this kind of movie.

If you want to go see a fun, lighthearted, silly movie. Which we need a little more. With a lot of heart to it. Yeah. His movies are the ones to go to. Yeah. But critics hate them. Yeah.

They don't, it doesn't matter. If people love it, that's what matters. Yeah. I mean, Terminalist Season 1. Yes. We got hammered. Yes. And the people spoke, man.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't matter. That's why I'm here. Yeah. Like, that's why Dark Wolf is dark. We're doing it, you know. It's because people wanted to see why Ben is fucking the way he is and made that decision.

Yeah. If it didn't, there's no way we would have got that greenlit. There's no way. Well, because it's written by Jack, so Jack Carr, who's a good friend of mine, who's an awesome human being and also a seal, and writes and had the goal, this is how crazy Jack is, had the goal of first. becoming a seal getting military experiencing and then becoming a great writer like he had it in his head did he really yes he always wanted to be a seal he always wanted to serve so he wanted to do those things get real-life experience get I mean that guy has a love of history it's unbelievable

incredible walking encyclopedia he's so brilliant and his recall is phenomenal so but imagine that kind of decision-making yeah I'm going to be a seal. I'm going to go get deployed. I'm going to get military combat experience. And then I'm going to go write books. This is, that was his like set. Eight bestsellers. Seven or eight. And right out of the box, Terminalist, his first book is fucking incredible. It's incredible. Yeah. But the guy prepared for it his whole life. Like he's a voracious reader, voracious reader. Reads constantly, can recommend books constantly. He's always great about that and so his first book out of the gate it's like he'd been pairing for it his whole life i mean

when he comes on to set and we're shooting this episode five he came to budapest and his energy like he's like a kid in a candy store man it's like i'm fucking gassed out tired and like just getting beat up and here comes car and it's just the light it just brings an energy to that set that it's just like man we're so lucky to be here and you're like you know what you're kind of fucking right we are yeah and i just love that guy man super supportive right when i got the role yeah he's like not pressing me he's like i know you played a seal before if you want any of my notes who ben is and he's like if you want that long leash here it is like i trust you like he's been nothing but amazing with me so far so it's a brilliant guy he really is super caring

Yep. Yeah. Well, just a great man. Yeah. Like a truly great man. Yeah. It's so cool when a guy like that gets to write stories that really reflect the true lives that he led and then he knows a lot of his friends lead and it's real. It's like he has an understanding of it that obviously the success of his books and the success of the series that understanding just translates in a way, like oh this is very authentic yeah even like little notes man i would get with the gunwork and all that kind of shit and obviously you listen but it's just like he's he comes at you of just more excitement and you don't take it personal you can't and you want to get it fucking right when you have him and jared shaw who's another seal and mendoza who's a seal and we got a uh what a army ranger who writes a lot of it like we're surrounded by these guys guys every day so if they want if anything is not authentic you're i mean the bullshit meter is like fucking two feet away right you know and i love that though because they're doing a lot of my work

for me helping me making me look like fucking bent right you know it's a complicated character too yeah a lot of that stuff like one of my best buddies just seal and had like 200 guys under him fought in Ramadi and bomb specialist guy wicked dude and um there's a moment in the CIA room in in episode one that was written and then i kind of i've been hearing this from him for so long and so it's kind of ingraineded me of just like how there's always someone to answer to and you're never really getting the full transparent part of what they're putting you out for so i'd heard all these stories for like the last since loan i met him on loan and um and so that scene i was like this is for you man i'm just gonna fucking go and have at it with this CIA guy and uh he was at

the premiere and watched it and love that beat but it's like i get to serve you know some of these guys that they they don't get to have those moments right right right and that's so fun for me to just fucking go and light them up in that room one of my favorite scenes Yeah, so I steal from these guys even like, and I get it, I got hammered or Ben got hammered for being the twist of season one, right? I'm the guy who kind of orchestrated a lot of it. And I was talking to Marcus because I'm like, how the fuck am I going to root this guy, this seal that's like best friends with Reese? And now all of a sudden the twist is like, man, I had a hand in this. I'm the guy that it put you guys down that tunnel on that op and your whole fucking platoon died for the most part and I just literally it was like a little moment that I had with LaTrell where he was talking about going back and dying with his boots on and I was like really settle into what that means this warrior is just decidedly going to die over there serving it's beautifully tragic and I was like

That is where I hung my hat with Ben of like how I can root this crazy twist of like, I'm making this decision for you, but you're going to go die with your boots on. Instead of this fucking, you're going to die rotting in this hospital bed, no insurance, your family, all this kind of shit. I'm like, I'm going to take that decision for you. So that's where I rooted Ben for season one. Wow. Yeah.

And then I go and open the Mike Murphy Museum with Dan and Mark. and a lot of other seals obviously and a lot of the seals were like I fucking get it you know but a lot of people just were like how could you and so and I get that part too but it was just like both things are true yeah truly yeah both things are true how could you and I yeah yeah he's a human being yeah and you know that's that's one of the reasons why the show is so interesting yeah people are fucking super complex and how fucking gray it's all is yep and how it goes back to like you're in mourning of a buddy uh you you broke this promise his family's dead and now i'm on an op and i get in front of the guy that killed this guy's family i'm gonna fucking put him down fuck this i'll take the beauty of ben to in this is he's accountable for it like i'll take it take my trident then i do it all over again which is a beautiful thing and i think he does like it's it's a very it's an emotional reaction that you know phrase his life and uh the other character uh raf's character he gets his trident taken

but it's that's one thing we were talking about earlier i'm just like it's so fucking gray and in these really split decision moments that you have and these guys aren't fucking robots out there it's like they're emotional they're fucking trained like better than anybody but at times they have to make these decisions that is like okay you're going to fucking put those girls on the black market or sell them or put them in the sex trade you don't get to live anymore I'm going to do that but that's a beautiful thing too yeah and people can relate to it because if you were in that scenario what would you do and most people would like to believe they would say you're not going to live anymore yes exactly

We have these talks on set all the time. You know, American primeval. We can romanticize the 1850s, or at least I did at the beginning of like, this guy's a fucking mountain man. This is sick. Like, he's a motherfucker. Like, if I, if you see me on the river in 1852 and you're like, I want your jacket, you're going to just come up and kill me and take my jacket. Yeah. Like, that's how fucked up the 1800s were back then.

lawless and so we started shooting and I was like we're shooting at 10,000 feet up there and you're cold and we're still spoiled obviously your trailer's 50 feet away but it's like fuck this I'm like there is nothing in me that would want to be in the 1850s nothing nothing no I can't believe people made it through I can't either it's hard I can't either and those people were living in a lap of luxury can people compare to people who lived 4,000 years before that. Oh, my God. Yeah, good boy, 200 years earlier.

Yeah. It's nuts. I mean, it's like what we were talking about earlier. Civilization is super recent. I mean, it's not, obviously, there's ancient Egypt and all that stuff. But, I mean, what we're dealing with right now is super recent. Yeah. Relative safety, relative security.

Yeah. Relative, you know. I mean, do you, do you, when you go hunt, Utah, backcountry, wherever you're going, you're going to be in the shit. It's going to be beautiful and quiet and like, I live for that. Yeah, well, that's why Montana is a great place to hunt too. And Montana is a truly wild place. Yes. I mean, outside of Bozeman.

Right. 30 minutes outside. Yeah, 30 minutes outside, you've got like a truly beautiful, incredible, just if you've never experienced the mountains, like the true. mountains especially when there's some snow on the ground and the winds whistling it's like it's majestic it's like the most extraordinary work of art that nature created yeah there's something about like mountains really just like it like awe inspiring it's like wow makes perspective sinks into you you're in the moment and it's weird

that very few people live near them I know right it is when you get there when you get there like oh my god I want to see this every day It's like, then you're on a flight to New York in two days. I lived outside of Boulder for a while. Oh, beautiful. And it was like that every day. It's like you're just driving through these mountains, like, this is incredible. Yeah.

Like this view that you have is like a vitamin. It really is, man. It restores your soul. Yeah. Look at this place. And it's, it's not a coincidence that people in mountain communities are chilled out. Yeah, you're right. It's not a coincidence.

No. They're surrounded by this overwhelming majesty of nature. nature and it's humbling yeah it is it is a little chiller totally yeah and i think for me too it's so good for the brain for all those reasons but also it's just like if i'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself or whatever it is bored it's like it's your fucking fault if you're bored out there right there's a thousand hikes go get into wildlife go to the national park go for a fucking walk anything fix your perspective truly yeah and it does it does it does after a intense roll or whatever it is once i land in bozeman man i get on the bike or whatever go fly fish

it's like it's it's it's a beautiful thing and there's less people there so it's like yeah you don't feel the buzz yeah yeah yeah yeah i just bought a 35 dollar fucking protein shake before i came here in austin yeah yeah i was like what the fuck is in it i look up yeah it's like yeah it's like, I don't know, probably like koala DNA that's going to give me hard for the next seven days or something. Grass fed tallow. Yeah. Yeah.

Where did you get? How's it? How did they charge 35 bucks for a smoothie? That seems a little outrageous. I keep adding shit. I was adding. Oh, you're adding protein. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But I was like, what's happening? Yeah, it's not Montana. But even Austin, like compared to where I lived before I lived in L.A. And living here is like,

there's only 2 million people. Yeah. It's so much more. Yeah. Yeah. Like what they think is traffic is adorable. Yeah. This is cute little traffic.

It's true, man. It's true. L.A.'s insane. It's just a terrible way to live. It really is. Yeah. It's a terrible way to live. Yeah.

And I think I get how people used to want to live there because it was the center of, you know, the TV business and the comedy business, but it's not worth it, kids. No, no. It's not good for the soul. Nothing's being filmed there anymore. It's rare. It's just...

Weird, right? Yeah. Like, how did that happen? I don't know. How did they fuck that up? I know. How did you fuck up the one spot where everybody wanted to move to to be an actor? You fucked up that spot?

Yeah. And they have everything. Mountains, beaches, fucking... You can get to the mountains to the shore in two hours. You're up in Big Bear. You're down in Santa Monica. Two hours. It's nuts.

Studios, everything's there. Yeah. Yeah, and they fucked it up. Yep. Brutal. What the fuck is happening? I don't know. I don't know.

I'd blame politics, but I think there's a lot of other stuff going on, too. Yeah. The people running it probably takes exceptional people to have real vision and learn how to keep stuff together. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either. I'm not a big fan of L.A. Yeah.

Yeah. I lived here for 17 years. Did you love it here? I did. Yeah. Yeah. I love the lake life. It's nice.

It's fucking amazing. It's a chilled city, too. It's like genuinely good people here. Yeah, there are. Normal people. Yeah. You know? In L.A., everybody is like a failed actor, want to be an actor, trying to get on a reality show.

Looking to be a TikTok influencer. Oh, God. Everybody's got something. And they want something from you. Always. Always. Yeah. And every connection they make is like a networking thing.

Every new friend becomes someone is an asset. Mm-hmm. An asset. Yeah, because it's like very transactional. Yeah. Gross. Yeah. It's gross.

Yeah. Well, listen, brother. you're a very interesting guy and you've got some awesome stories and you're a really great actor and so i've been a fan for a long time likewise this was really fun thank you thanks for having me my pleasure brother um tell everybody one more time terminalist dark wolf it's available now on amazon which is great and uh i know the terminalist killed it for amazon yeah huge we're number one right now that's amazing yeah thanks that's awesome it's a great show it's great show all right my pleasure bye everybody Thank you.