The Joe Rogan Experience - #2387 - Gregg Braden

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

Gregg Braden is an author, scientist, and educator. His latest book, "Pure Human: The Hidden Truth of Our Divinity, Power, and Destiny," is available now.   https://www.hayhouse.com/pure-human-hardcoverwww.greggbraden.com Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast checking out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night All day When we just missed a fabulous conversation about your hair I'm the best hair I would not wear headsets Are we recording right now?

Yeah, we're going now So did you ever know Wayne Dyer? No, I did know Wayne Dyer Do we have Wayne Dyer on the podcast ever? Like way, way, way, way back of the day? I was on a cruise with, we had the same publisher, Hayhouse, is our publisher, and we were on a cruise just off Australia. Of course, the sun's out there, and Wayne came out, and he's got a very shiny head. He said, Greg Braden, I said, yeah.

He said, you see this? And I said, yeah. He said, this is a solar panel for a sex machine. Okay. And I couldn't match that, you know, so I said, I said, well, you see this? I said, these are every one of these, every one of these hairs. is a highly advanced, finely tuned, antennaed to higher dimensional state spaces of information. And so that was our joke about hair and no hair.

Imagine if that's what made you enlightened, how much air you had, and no one started to fall out. You got dumber. Like I said, every decade of my life, they're saying, if you have it this decade, you can keep it. So when I hit my 70s, they said, you got this, you can probably keep it. Oh, yeah. If you have monocidal, like if you got really good at it today. and there's a bunch of different D.H.T. inhibitors that are topical that they can use. My friend Derek from Derek, more plates, more dates.

It's a website. He's got a bunch of, like, protocols and how to save your hair. So people want to save their hair. But we were talking about Art Bell when we came in here because there's a photograph of art on the wall. That, like, was one of the most important things for me to put up. Like, we talked about it, and Jamie and I were like, oh, you got to get it. We got to get a metal picture of Art Bell. Because that was the guy, man.

When I was driving home from the comedy store at like 1 o'clock in the morning, and I was listening to AM radio, coast to coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of Nye. It was my favorite. This was like all, for me, was kind of pre-internet, too. Like, you know, the internet existed, but it wasn't the thing that it is now. There was no podcasts. No, but, you know, the crazy thing is the stuff that was on that program that was all fringe is what everybody's talking about every day at lunch, at lunch right now.

Area 51. Bob Lazzar, totally mainstream. You know, he was so kind to me. He had me on his program before I had my first book. I self-published my first two books, and I was doing talks all over up and down the West Coast, up in the Vancouver. And he had heard somebody in his shop had been to one of those talks. And he invited me on, no book. And then he had me on a number of times after that.

And so I was very honored to be on there. And, you know, we talked about everything, man. You could, that was the thing. You could talk about anything, anything you wanted to talk about. It was also, like, art was a show where you could get real information, and you could also get complete horseshit. And you had to be able to discern what is what, but art treated everyone with equal respect. Like, you could call him up, Art, I'm a werewolf. You're like, interesting.

Tell me more. It was never like, bitch, you're not a werewolf. You're just mentally ill. You need to get some Prozac or whatever. give you well you still you still got to be discerning today you know I think I say it's well today you more so than ever because of AI and because of bots and you know I was saying it's important to have have an open mind but not a gaping mind and and there are a lot of unfortunate use of terminology but yes I agree wholeheartedly you know part of the reason for that and you know this we we have a global

audience a lot of those people are very hurt unresolved hurt they're right on the edge. They're very fragile personalities. Yeah, that's true. And what they hear on the radio can be interpreted in a million different ways. And it's, you know, I think there's a responsibility that comes with saying things. If you're going to say it, make sure it's accurate. Yeah. And your intention, like, what are you trying to do? Like, I'm never trying to hurt someone's feelings. If someone's listening, I want you to have a better life. I want your life to be better, you know. This is an interesting thing about whether it's bots or whether it's, you know, an actual human being talking about stuff. The way you approach life and the way the people around you approach life is very contagious. And if you're doing it in a very positive and a loving way, in a friendly way, in a communal way, that's contagious. It's really good. It's good for everybody. But if you're bitter and shitty, it's bad for everybody. What art was, was like very friendly and, you know, and fascinated by all these things and he was a real pro.

You know what I mean? It's just like, so when I did his show, it was like one of the highlights on my life. And I got to do the internet version. I never got to do the radio version. So he was on the internet at a time. I don't think he was, maybe he was on some radio stations, but mostly I think it was an internet thing. But I was like, yes, I'm on with Art Bell. Mine was all by phone.

It was all landlines. Yeah, I was out by phone too. Those days. Yeah, I did it from my house on the Internet, you know. I think I did it, you know, with a headset or something, but I did. Well, he paved the way and we're here today. Well, he made interesting subjects. You know, like I remember when they were talking about things like the face on Mars.

And you're like, what? That sounds so kooky. And then you see pictures. You go, hey, man, what is that? Why don't I hear about that in school? Yeah, well, we had Richard Hoagland on night after night after night after night for weeks on end when that came out. And actually, that face on Mars had a lot to do with my career path, actually. So what is your take on all this?

Because one of the things that happened with the face on Mars is the initial images were very grainy but fascinating. Because it did kind of look like a face, but maybe even more remarkable because sometimes there's faces like in the side of a rock. It looks like a face. More remarkable was the geometric pattern of the base of it. And so I kind of dismissed that when the second images came out. So this is the original image. This is the original image that freaked everybody out. They were like, oh, my God, there's a face on Mars.

And then they came up with these upgraded images. And I was like, well, that's not a face. It's just weird shadows. And it's probably just a mountain. But, man, that's an odd shape. Or that face has been doctored. It could be true. Yeah.

But also, then I looked at it, it was like, that shape is interesting. like it almost looks unnatural. Then the new images from very close to Sidonia that show a very clear square. This one's nuts. Because this one is somewhere in the neighborhood of between three, it's plus 300 meters. Like they don't know how much longer it is than 300 meters,

but the minimum size of this thing is 300 meters across. And it's a full-on square. Right angle, right angle, right? It's like, what that? What the hell is that? Pull that picture up, Jamie. As a geologist, I was fascinated when Hoagland first started talking about what was happening here. What's up, Jamie?

Oh, that one, yeah, yeah, the one that we bring up all the time. Oh, it don't matter. Some of them are doctor. Some of them are doctored, though. Yeah, the non-doctored one, the one next to it, like the right there. Look at that. That's absolutely crazy. So I don't know if you, I'm very familiar with this image.

I don't know if you can see with your mind's eye, you're looking the lower left. Look in the lower left, that's a 90 degree angle. If you can see the rest of the 90 degree angle up at the top and over at the side, if you can trace out, that is one massive right there. Now you can see it. Yeah, the computer has cleaned it up. Nature does not work in 90 degree angles. You're not going to get wind erosion. Wind is called aeolian erosion.

Fluvial erosion is water erosion. You're not going to get 90 degree angles from wind or water. So one of the tenets in archaeology, when you see 90 degree angles, there's an intent. dimensionality underlying that that structure. If it were a one-off, you could say maybe it's a fluke, and it's not. And this is on Mars, Jamie, I don't know if you can do this. Through freedom of information, NASA had to release all of the lunar images up through the Clementine mission, and they didn't want to do that.

And when they did release them, they ended up pixeling out a whole bunch of stuff, which made it look even more obvious than it was. They're just fucking with us at this point. So you've got to say, what is it on the lunar surface that we paid for with our tax dollars that we're not supposed to be seeing? And these were tower structures. Can you see the Clementine? Are there any undoctored, unblered versions of it that some nerd that's stuck out of the office? I haven't seen them in the public domain.

But you've seen them privately? No. What I'm saying is what through free of information. Right. But have you ever seen the undructured images? No, what they were forced to release. Why in the world would they be pixelating the images that are on there that actually make them look even more obvious than they are? So what we're seeing, what Hoagland was talking about, what you're seeing on Mars is not happening in a vacuum.

It's happening. We're seeing the same thing on the lunar surface to varying degrees. On Mars, there were three-sided, four-sided, five-sided pyramids. With them one in the upper right-hand corner, that's odd. It's the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's very odd. So here's the kicker.

We're sending the Viking probes, Viking 1, Viking 2 in the 70s, went to Mars. 19,000 images were captured from the orbiting part of the mission. The other craft landed on the surface, and I can just imagine being on the surface seeing this. It's like this thing's like a spider comes down in the cloud of dust, and this little tube pops up, and some sticky dental floss stuff shoots out, and then they reel it in to collect dirt and microbes, and they reel it into broth because they're looking for evidence of life on Mars, and it's happening next to massive monuments and geometric structures that are now dated about 50,000 years BP before present. So they're looking for microbes and signs of life next to the most massive signs of life that you could imagine.

These, you said they're dated to 50,000 BC, these structures? BP, BP, before present, yeah. So how do they know that? Those were, when the Sedonia mission, that's the Sedonia scientists are estimating 50,000 years, and the same with the lunar. I'm hesitating. But the Sedonian, how do they estimate that? If they're using probes from that far away. They're using probes, and I think geologically they're using, it's relative dating.

You know, they're looking at strata and things like that. And from the lunar sites, you know, they brought back samples. And, yeah, I'm hesitating because I don't know how deep you want to go with all this. As deep as you want. Well, you know, the samples that came back from the lunar surface had traces of metals that do not occur nationally in nature, naturally in nature. They are the product of, you know, advanced machinery. What metals are these? These were medals that came back when they brought back from the Apollo mission.

And I think they brought back, oh, I need to remember the names. That's one Jamie can look up what the medals were that came back. And they don't know where those metals came from. So is this metals from Sidonia or is this metals from the moon? This is from the lunar sites and the craters. So the structures on the moon, how old they think they're the same age as the structures on Sidonia? They're estimating 50,000 BP. You know, there's a race for the moon.

the moon right now. And I'm fascinated by this. You know, there was a time only two nations on earth had the money and the technology to go to the moon. It was a former Soviet Union and former United States because neither one's the same country anymore. And both those countries have been so broke. They haven't been able to do it. India and China are now sending the probes to the moon. We were going to moon during the Cold War. And it was. was a crazy time. It was actually a very civilized war. I mean, the governments were at war, but the scientists were still cooperating. And there was an agreement that we would not share publicly what was found on the lunar surface. And Russia did the same thing. China was never

part of that agreement. So China has said when they land, they're going to televise live what they find on the lunar surface to the people of the earth. My sense, Joe, and this is this will lead into a whole conversation we're going to have here. I think they'll find the archaeological structures that we know are there that we've seen in the photographs. The inscriptions on those structures we're going to be able to read because there's a thinking that those structures are from ETs from another time, but the evidence suggests they're from us, from a time in our past, a cycle of civilization where we did great and beautiful things by working together until we destroyed one another through war and that we're repeating that cycle again so when they send

that like drawing a lot of conclusions isn't there other possibilities for what happened to well here's this is where I'm going with this when they when they see what's on those temple walls they're they're going to see inscriptions and languages that we already recognize and and that will be the the smoking gun like Q and why do you think that Because this is what the researchers who are working on these projects right now, and they're combining this with so many of what the ancient texts have always told us. And this is where, you know, it gets into a really, kind of a sticky conversation, because it depends on how, you know, people interpret these things.

I'm excited for it for this reason. This is obviously no ordinary time in the history of our world, and they're pushing for war. We're on the verge of global war. What would it mean if we found on the surface, on the lunar surface evidence of us, humans from another time, leaving a message in our own languages, Cuneiform, Sanskrit, those kinds of things, it could be one of the most unifying factors. when we're on the precipice of war. I completely agree, but we have to make a lot of leaps in order for that to be real. Like, we haven't seen any writing. So why would they assume that there's a bunch of different kinds of writing and different languages?

Actually, I think they have seen. Who's that? Well, when our space program, I think you've had guests on, I've talked about this in the past, I think. When our space program was active, there were broadcasts. from the lunar surface that were cut off. And astronauts had seen things that they were not allowed to see and not allowed to share. That's what I heard.

It sounds fun. It sounds really fun. I want to believe that. Well, and some of them are leaving this world now, and on their, you know, on their deathbed, they can't believe that this hasn't been made public already. So there have been, you know, recordings and videos and things. And I think they're authentic. Right.

But this does it. They're like, we haven't got boots on the ground at Cydonia, right? No, not Cydonia's Mars. Well, exactly. So how are they seeing these inscriptions? Are you saying these inscriptions are on the moon? Yeah, lunar surface. I'm sorry.

Okay. Yeah, I was confused. I was confused. So these astronauts are saying that on the surface of the moon, they saw writing. They've seen structures. Structures. Massive structures. But what about the writing?

They, they were. They, there were reports that they had seen the writing, but we can't verify those. We can't verify those. Okay. So this is just podhead talk. Well, you know, yes and no. Kind of, a little bit, a little bit, because if there's no evidence at all, that there's not even an interview with a guy who talks about when I was on the moon I saw writing.

Well, then this is where you start going into the ancient texts. Okay. And the traditions that are relating our relationship to intelligences from beyond this world. Yes, there's a lot of that. And there's a lot of that. There's a lot of that in various religions, too. It's very fascinating. Well, this is what I think is important.

It is in religions, but I think you can break out their historical text and there's religious texts. So if you're reading the Bible, there's religion and history in the Bible. If you're looking at Sumerian, Acadian, Babylonian, text from the Mesopotamian era, they're telling similar stories, and you've had guests on talking about this, where the stories are similar, but the religion is not part of that. And so I think what we're doing, we're kind of beating around the bush to a deeper conversation here. And that's why I've hesitated a couple of times because I just don't want us to, you know, to, to get so far down on one side that.

Oh, don't worry about that. That's what the show's all about. Okay. It tells all, we should call the show rabbit holes. Because people are always in the middle of talking about one thing and they pivot. It doesn't matter. Well, I think this is all tied into disclosure and what's happening, the reluctance to have the full disclosure. Right.

We've talked about that multiple times. Yeah. I'm sure you, were you in that documentary, the age of disclosure? No. No. You've been in a lot of documentaries. I have been in a lot. It's hard to remember.

And a lot and a lot of what I said was left on the cutting room floor. Always. And there's a couple of reasons for that. One thing I learned, Joe, and maybe you've learned this as well. If you're going to be in the documentary, ask if you are on the front end of the filming or the back end of the filming. What does that mean? Here's the reason. Are you one of the early interviews or are you one of the later interviews?

Okay. And here's the reason. They'll develop an arc in a storyline. And if you're early on, they're going to ask you questions to support that art. arc in that storyline. Five interviews down, somebody's going to come on, and they're going to introduce something, and the producer is going to say, oh, there's a new arc and new storyline, and now everything that you interviewed for may not be relevant in that conversation anymore. Well, I don't think you can control that, so. You can ask. You just ask, you say, where am I in

the shooting process? And if you're the first one, say, you know, maybe come back and interview me. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer. Most hard beverages overcomplicate everything. Happy Dad keeps it simple. Low carbonation, gluten-free, and only 100 calories in every can. Barbecues, golf rounds, hanging by the pool, chilling after work. Happy Dad is perfect for whatever you're up to.

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seltzer n t malt alcohol orange county california so a little bit later on is it your belief that there was a civilization on mars that were us and that we migrated to earth and then eventually populated earth is that what you're thinking or that we coexisted in both places i think we did and it sounds so crazy to say and yeah yeah it does it does well you you probably travel in different circles but i mean to the rational rational people most people hear that and they go what there are people on mars but as time goes on and more and more discoveries we find out just about the structures that are on earth and how old they might be and the actual age of homo sapiens like how old we might actually

be where a lot like they found that skull in china the other day That was, they just, have you seen this? It's a million-year-old homo sapient skull, but apparently there's some debate about it. It's going, they're going back and forth. But at the very least, it's in the conversation of human beings possibly have existed, at least in this form for a million years, which is kind of nuts. Yeah. I found that in the last year, right? They found it in 1990.

What? Yeah. What I found it the other day? No. I read it on the BBC. I know. I was going through the story yesterday. What happened was some team reconstructed parts of that skull with new methods that are now available.

And they suggest that it could say that it was. I think it was actually one of those we've talked about, the big head, the longie. Oh, right. That's one of those. That one's fascinating because that's a larger human being. Was it homo sapiens? Yeah, well, they're a branch from the Denisovins. Right.

So this is a thing. What is it called? I get confused. I remember Longhi was the thing that they were saying this. Julian. Yeah, okay, that is the other one. That's it. That's the big-headed one.

Anyway, point being. I'm skeptical about those because they find one fragment and there's a lot of interpretation that's going on there. The consensus has been for a long time that we appeared. I'm just going to preface this by saying I'm a degree of geologist. I believe in evolution. Evolution is a fact. I've seen it in a fossil record for plants, animals, insects.

Darwin's theory of evolution breaks down when it comes to humans. And it breaks down for this reason. We now can do what used to sound like science fiction. If you ever saw the first Jurassic Park, where they pulled the DNA out of the fossilized remains of ancient forms of life. In the movie, they brought them back to life. To the best my knowledge, we haven't done that. What we have done is we can extract that DNA from the bone marrow of fossilized remains of beings that we used to believe were our ancestors. And what's happening is, and this is a mindblower, we know that we didn't descend from Neanderthal.

We shared the earth with them, certainly, and some people have some Neanderthal DNA because of that. But we did not descend from them, and we didn't descend from many of the other forms that you see on those traditional trees. You know, you've got modern humans here and all these lines connecting, but if you look close to the lines, most of them are broken lines, Joe, because there's no solid evidence. It's called inferred or speculative relationships. I've got a picture of it here if we want to see that. But what they're showing is that we showed up about 200,000 years ago. Now there's a little evidence that may have been back as far as 300,000. But the kicker is that we can now look at the DNA and reverse engineer it and say, what did it take to get where we are? And what scientists are now calling the smoking gun, and there's still a lot of controversy around this, is human chromosome number two. Human chromosome number two is the second largest chromosome in every cell of the body. It's got about 1,200 or so genes in that chromosome, and just one of them, gene TBR number one, is responsible for most of the brain that we have for our neocortex.

So our humanness, our empathy, sympathy, compassion, love, our cognitive abilities, the mirror neurons, all these kinds of things are because that one gene, well, where this gets really interesting is where did chromosome 2 come from. And scientists have the answer, but they don't like the answer, because chromosome 2 is the product of a fusion. Proceedings from National Academy of Sciences, the volume genetics, says this very clearly. We conclude that the origin of human chromosome 2 is the product of an ancestral fusion, of telomere-to-telemer fusion, of two pre-existing chromosomes. does not happen in nature. It can't happen in nature. So here's what they're saying. You've got two fully, two fully form, fully functional chromosomes. And on the end, or the telomeres that protect

those chromosomes when the cells divide. And that's why they're on the end. They take the hit. It's a trauma in a cell when those chromosomes are pulled apart and some of the DNA doesn't make it. So nature puts telomeres on the end to take the hit so the good DNA remains intact and that's why it's on the ends human chromosome two those telomeres are right in the middle of the chromosome where they shouldn't be because those chromosomes were fused together about 200,000 years ago when we when we appeared and if that was the only one you could say well maybe it's a fluke chromosome number seven I'm a musician when I'm not doing what I'm doing now long before I was a researcher.

And one of the things I always used to wonder about, you know, we share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees, but you don't hear chimpanzees sing. You know, you're never going to hear chimpanzees sing Led Zeppelin Stairway to Heaven. And you ask, well, why not? I mean, 98% of the DNA is we share with them, but it's because of chromosome 7. And for about 175 million years, this chromosome was stable and, all primates, all of them, orangutan, gorilla chimps, all the primates, all of a sudden, there was this little switch of a couple of genes that connected our tongue and our brain and our jaw

and we can sing and we can have complex speech like no other form of life. It happened 200,000 years ago. What are the odds of that happening when chromosome 2 is fusing? So I've worked with scientists my whole life, both in academia and in the corporations. I was a problem solver for Fortune 500 companies through the late 70s, 80s, and 90s. And one of the things I've seen about scientists is fascinating, is that there is one way of thinking that says we take all the evidence and we force it into a preexisting. model, like all the new discoveries trying to force that into Darwin's theory of evolution, or we allow the new evidence to lead to the story that it tells. And this is where science

is stuck right now, because the old theory, Darwin's theory of evolution is in trouble. And it's the DNA is the reason it's in trouble. It's no longer superficial or fossil evidence. I mean, the DNA is telling the story. And the new story suggests, at the very least, a scientist has to say there's been some kind of intelligent intervention. And this is where science gets stuck because science says it's not equipped to talk about any kind of an intelligent intervention. But that ties in to everything that's happening. Now, you know, if we're going to talk about ancient civilizations or if we're going to talk about we've been here before, are we going to talk about, you know, what it is that is the disclosure, all of those kinds of things.

so science is kind of at the crossroads right now there there is something called the standard model and that applies to evolution and what the evidence suggests is we are the product of an intelligent and an intentional act who or what that is that's where it gets it can get sticky the universe we've had physicists on here and really good physicists that and some of them are not aware some of the new information that's come out now. But when I was in school back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, I was taught that the universe is dead, inert, just cold, and we happen to be lucky biology.

You know, that's kind of what they used to teach. Now, physicists are suggesting the universe is alive, it is intelligent, and it's conscious. And one of the reasons for this, and you can know the NASA website, and you can look at some of these images, the James Webb Space Telescope, they're showing galaxies that are in proximity of something that is dangerous to them, like an exploding, you know, whatever.

And what they'll do is they'll create jets from the center, both directions, these jets that actually move them out of the way. And I talk about it. I've got a new book, and I talk about that in the new book. So it's documented in the book. they actually move them to a safer place and you say well maybe that's a fluke it's a one-off and now that they have found that they found that happens time and time again so space itself is conscious in some form conscious okay conscious and intelligent those are two two very different

things but that is a very different story if if our universe is alive and intelligent and conscious and we're the product of an intentional act we solve our problems, Joe, and we build our world based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves. We use our resources. We apply our technology based on the way we've been taught to think about ourselves. And we have been taught that we are a flawed form of life, that we are powerless victims of the world around us. And because of that, this is going to lead into this whole conversation. Because of that, we need a savior. And that savior is being touted as technology. So now we are living at this time where we're being encouraged, indoctrinated,

coerced, mandated sometimes, to embrace the technology outside of our bodies because we have been conditioned to believe that we are a broken, flawed form of life. And you're seeing this play out in the AI conversation. You're seeing it play out in what's called the transhuman movement, the intentional movement to replace our humanness with computer chips in the brain, chemicals in the blood, RFID chips under the skin. And it's all playing out right now, Joe. I mean, this can't go on for, you know, another 20 years because it's moving too fast. This is the generation, right? And I'm very passionate about this. The experts are saying, less we change our trajectory, right now, we very probably are the last generation of pure humans

that the world will ever know that by 2032, when you go to the supermarket or go to the airport, the people you talk to will be some hybrid, maybe some more and some less, but will have some kind of technology embedded into their bodies. I was on a panel recently, and I was with a group of scientists, and they said, well, what's wrong with that? You know, isn't that the next step? Isn't that our natural step and our evolution? And I said, no, it is not, and here's the reason. When we replace our natural biology with synthetics, our natural abilities begin to atrophy. Cells will, let me just give a perfect example. We used to be taught. When I was in school, I was taught that we're born into this world with a fixed number of brain cells.

And every beer I drank in college. Yeah, I remember that. All right, I'm going to lose some brain cells. Well, what I'm going to say next is not a reason to drink the beer. But what they found, there's a part of the human brains, the hippocampus, that is producing new brain cells until the last breath we take on this earth. There's a catch. And the catch tells the story. if we do not use those new brain cells in a meaningful way within about seven to ten days

the body says oh you didn't use it so you must not need it and those cells will atrophy and die that makes sense because i always feel dumber when i come back from vacation are you drinking beer on vacation not this time but sometimes yeah in the octagon it only takes one second to change everything. One punch, one choke, one shock, no one saw coming. And at UFC 320, Drafking Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the UFC puts you right in the middle of the action. Ancolae versus Pereira, too, headlines a stacked night of fights. New customers, this one is for you. Bet just $5. And if your bet wins, you'll get paid out in $200 instantly. Download the draft king sportsbook app and use the code Rogan. That's code Rogan. That's code Rogan.

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21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyd in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Minimum minus 500 odds required. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. Four additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co slash audio. But that principle, so it's called use it or lose it, we've all heard that. That principle applies to every system in the human body.

It applies to our cognitive abilities, to our reproductive system. And when we replace our natural biology with these synthetics, this is exactly what's happening. And we've been doing this long enough. Virtual reality goggles, for example. They've been around long enough. Psychology Magazine has published article after article. If you take young kids with malleable brains, parents are busy, they want to entertain them. So they sit them on the floor, put a virtual VR goggle on, you know, three or four hours a day and say, hey.

So here's the kid. sitting there like this and they're seeing images that they would never see in their backyard and colors and sounds and situations but here's the thing it's all being done for them they are not using their imagination like you and i did when we were kids they're not using their imagination so now what's happening is there are parts of their brain that are atrophying so they are diminished cognitive abilities diminish language skills diminished communication skills, but listen to this. The visual cortex, which is what they're using to watch everything, is enlarged in the brain. The visual cortex gets bigger because that's what...

That's what they're doing. Now, because of epigenetics, all of that can be reversed. When the kids are put into a healthy environment, go outside and play with your friends, you know, they're young enough that they can reverse that. Right. I spent a lot of time with shamans in the Yucatan and in Peru, Costa Rica, places like that. And they found the same thing. The shamans that maybe do, you know, 5,000 ayahuasca journeys because they're leading groups. And every time the group does it, they do it. So, you know, they're doing that. Their visual cortexes are enlarged, but their other abilities are diminished. Now, if you're a shaman in the jungle, maybe that's no big deal. But if you're a software engineer in Silicon Valley

writing code for nuclear triggers, and on the weekends, you know, this is what you're doing every weekend chronically. It could be a problem. Have they done studies on that? They've shown declined ability or cognitive function due to psychedelic use? Yes. They have. Any specific psychedelics? ayahuasca was one and and I hesitate because there are different different kinds of ayahuasca different it's called a brew different kinds of a brew so is the idea that people are overdoing it they're doing it too much well I want to be clear about this one off I don't think there's any any problem if it's done therapeutically I'll give you a perfect example I was speaking at a facility I was invited as a guest speaker to go with a cohort through seven-day programs and

And part of that program was ayahuasca, part of it was breath work, part of it was body work, part of it was natural raw food, you know, the whole gamut. And there was a woman and her husband who came and they were both healthy. They couldn't have a baby. They couldn't conceive. Her eggs were good, his sperm was good, the doctors couldn't figure it out. And they said there's something else going on. So they came to this program.

the woman, and one time, she had a plant medicine experience, and in that experience, a being came to her and reached in and pulled her heart out, and it was all black, and had stuff all over it, and the being cleaned it off and put it back in, did the same thing with the womb, and she had had, she had been traumatized as a child, had been abused, had not resolved that, apparently, you know, on a deep emotional level. And so there was a part of her that felt that she wasn't worthy to conceive. And it was being, it was shown up that way. And in her plant medicine experience, this is what worked for her.

And they conceived shortly. I think they conceived that week while they were there when they did the numbers backwards. Now, as a scientist, can you prove that? Or you can say there's a high correlation between the time that an individual has an experience like that. and when, you know, when they successfully conceive. But that's a one-off. And I don't, therapeutically, I don't think there's anything. It's not going to be harmful one-off.

It's the chronic use for recreation. That's where we get into trouble. Well, it seems to me the people that I have encountered that use it maybe a little bit too much, they seem to have a loss of a perception of how other people see them. They get slippery. Like the world gets slippery. act weird and they don't know they're acting weird and it seems like there's like a piece of the interface has been damaged if that makes any sense it makes total sense and I knew no matter

where we go in this conversation to start with it's going to bring us back to the same to the same place and I can show you exactly where that slipperiness comes from in just a moment okay when we get there because and I'll just I'll say it right now there's a part of us that doesn't live inside the body, but that the body tunes to, and I'm using that from an engineering perspective, that the body tunes to through the antenna of neurons and DNA. And this is where it gets fascinating conversation. Scientists now, a segment of scientists are beginning to look at the human body as more than soft, sticky, wet, gooey, mushy, you know, cells and skin. Joe, they're actually

looking at us from an IT perspective. Now, this sounds crazy, but they're looking at the human body from the perspective of information passing through and communicating with the world around us, that we are such an advanced form of life. We're not primitive computer chips and wires and chemicals, we're more than that. We're neurons and cell membranes and ion potentials moving across cell walls. And the ability for us to self-regulate what is now being called soft, we are a soft technology. The ability to do that is the core of all the ancient and cherished spiritual traditions in the mystery schools. How we go about regulating this technology. So now let me just break that down a little bit. I mentioned during the

Cold War. It was a very civilized war. I remember in 1980s. I was working, I was civilian working on a contract for the DOD and with a civilian security, I had a yellow badge. It wasn't a high secret clearance. It wasn't like top secret or anything. But we have access to research papers that were coming in from the Soviet Union. Even though we were at war, on one level, the scientists were still cooperating. And the Soviets were the first that sent these diagrams of a human cell

as a circuit diagram. Now, this is a mind-blower. I mean, it wasn't a metaphor. Literally, every human cell is a gated circuit. It's got an input and output. It has the equivalent of transistors and resistors and capacitors. every cell produces about 0.07 volts of electrical potential and you say well that's not very much

and I agree and then you do the math we got about 50 trillion cells in the body 50 trillion cells times 0.07 volts it's about 3.5 trillion volts of electrical potential in the human body every cell is the equivalent of a transistor every cell is the equivalent of a resistor of a capacitor We're photon emitters, and there's a whole science now about reading the photon emissions from humans, and we're photon receivers, and we store information just like a computer chip, and this goes on. Blockchain technology. Our DNA stores information, and the way that it's described is that it is secure, it's transparent, and it's immutable, and it's distributed. And those are exactly the terms being used for blockchain technology today because blockchain technology in the world actually mirrors the technology of human DNA. We have a record in you and I, every human body, we have a record of every successful genetic

transaction for our species. It is transparent, it's immutable. If you know how to look for it, it's not hidden. it's secure and it's distributed across all the nodes that we call humans. This goes on and on and on. The point is that we are the only form of life that can consciously self-regulate all of this technology and apply it to our healing, to our intuition, to our resilience, to change, to any of these kinds of things.

And the ability to do that is the secret that has been, hidden within the mystery schools, within the religions, and it is the reason for everything you're seeing happening in the world today. There's a concerted effort, Joe, to deny us our ability to express our humanness. And part of that effort is replacing our humanness with technology. So that's a big statement, and I know we'll... But that's fairly recent, right? The, the effort to stop people from expressing their humaneness. That's not recent. Well, so now we're going to get to the crux of it. Okay. So here's, and I wasn't sure how we'd get into this. I lost my mom to COVID just a couple of years ago. And right before she died, she looked at me and she said, Greg,

the world is going to hell in the handbasket. And I always got the going to hell part. I never knew exactly with the handbasket. I never understood that phrase. What is that phrase? I don't know, but I knew what she meant. And what she meant was the world looks scary to her, Joe, and it does a lot of people. It looked like things were happening for no reason, for no apparent, there was no apparent structure. It looked like things were just popping off here and there, out of control, it looked crazy.

And she said, you know, this isn't my world anymore. Well, we are in the middle of a process. the process has a beginning. It has an end. We're in it. The only way out of it is to go through it, and that's why I'm excited to have this conversation with you. The two parallel themes that are playing out on our world right now, and we can explore both of them. One, there is a concerted effort for the first time in the history of our world to remake, the stated intent, to remake our world and to remake our bodies. Now, we've never had the technology to do that, but we do now. So the intent to remake the world and remake our bodies, that's one conversation. The other conversation, the best science of the modern world, is showing us that we're not what we've been told. We're so much more than we've been led to believe, and we're about to give our humanness away to the technology before we even know what it means to be human if we remake our bodies. So this is, and this is in this generation, this cannot drag on for, you know, five years, 10 years, because all the tech is being pushed on us so quickly.

I'm a systems thinker. And rather than get into the weeds of the Democrats and the Republicans and liberals and conservatives and which is all important, and we can have that conversation, but there's something much, much bigger that's playing out here. And it literally, we're in a battle for our humanness. And if we don't claim our humanness, there are powers and forces that will stop at nothing to deny us. Our humanness, one of the reasons they're denying it is what we just said, because it's through our humanness, that we have these extraordinary potentials that empower us is sovereign, critically thinking, self-regulating human beings. and it's very difficult to play out the agendas that are proposed for the world upon populations that are sovereign, critically thinking, self-regulating human beings. So just like...

Well, the problem seems to be power and control. That's the problem. And the only way to have power and control over people is to limit their ability to express themselves and then keep them at each other's throats. And that is, those are two things that are happening. all the time with social media. The people that manage social media are consistently trying to limit

the reach of people that have voices or narratives that don't approve, that they don't approve of. And ultimately, what you're seeing in other countries is moving to digital IDs. This is just implemented in Europe and in the UK. You're seeing in a lot of places where you're going to have to need that to work and vote and travel. And it'll be even more of a constriction.

on your ability to express yourself, particularly when you think about the U.K., which has had more than 12,000 arrests for very mild social media posts. Isn't that crazy? I can't believe that. I've been watching this stuff play out. Fascinating, and the fact that our mainstream media is relatively silent on this is insane. You're seeing a complete total attack on one of the most fundamental principles of the Western. world, which is your ability to express yourself. And your ability to call out that you think that the policies that are being implemented in your country are destructive. People have always

been able to do that. These people are not calling for violence. They're not, they're being arrested for wild things. People are being arrested for liking posts. Some people were investigated for viewing posts. 12,000 people arrested by the police in the UK, the same place that just implemented digital ID. I mean, this is an Orwell nightmare coming to life right in front of our face, and no one's flinching. No one in America is freaking out about what's happening in the UK at all. I mean, you get people online that are kind of freaked out by it, but they're way more freaked out by nonsensical things, like whether or not what Jimmy Kimmel said in his monologue was offensive. They'll go to the ends of the earth to fight that. Well, they're programmed.

That's the programming. Well, it's easy. That's a simple thing, and it doesn't freak you out. Like, if you could get Jimmy Kimmel canceled, fuck him. If you could do that, like, you have some power. You have power. But you really don't. If you look at what's going on, like, in the U.K., what they're learning over there is that they are in a tyrannical government.

And it's slowly but surely. It's got its back. It's got the hooks in. It's put in the rear naked choke in. It's got them locked up. They've got to do something about that. Why do you think that's happening? Why?

Because of what we talked about, power, power and control and resources. And a very limited amount of people are controlling a huge amount of people, a limited amount of people with fantastic access to resources and the ability for the first time in human history where you have individuals that are in charge of companies that they can shift the entire narrative of the world. So they're doing it through these tech companies for the first time ever. Totally unanticipated, 20 years ago didn't exist. So I'm saying for the first time, the tech allows for the remaking of our humanness. Well, it allows for new methods of control and resource extraction. And we found out that data itself is a fantastic resource and worth billions and billions of dollars. So some of the richest companies that have ever existed, they're data companies now.

That's kind of nuts. And that's like we miss that. But this is all the same thing that happens with kings and with emperors. it's control. You've got to limit the people's ability to rebel, limit their ability to gather resources, keep them at each other's throats ideologically, keep them fighting over the dumbest shit possible, including the color of their skin, fight over everything. What good gods you believe in, what foods you eat, what fucking computer you use. Keep them fighting over everything and then get social media bots to continue that fight going all day long. Meanwhile, closer and closer and closer to total control of the population, where they're even openly stating it.

Hillary Clinton said in an interview, if we can't control social media, we lose control. Yeah. Like, yeah, you're not supposed to have control over other human beings. Yeah, you're going to lose the thing you're not supposed to have. An elected official is supposed to be a representative for the people. You're supposed to be a person who's a public servant where you go out and you do this incredibly moral and ethical and beautiful thing where you sacrifice your time for the betterment of your community and your society instead of just a means of extracting fantastic wealth that is totally unprecedented and that shouldn't exist in the first place. You shouldn't be able to take that fucking job and then immediately go and start working for some Fortune 500 company making billions of dollars. Like, that's crazy if you're a government employee involved in any regulatory fashion and then you go and work for the very industry you were regulating.

Or if you're a person who runs for office, you get in office, and then all of a sudden you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars when your salary is $170,000 a year. It's real obvious what's going on. It's just wealth extraction. And the way to do that is with control. You have to have control over people and you have to be able to censor them. Because they're going to call that shit out. Everything you're, yes, and everything you're talking about is part of a bigger picture. So how deep you want to go?

All the way to the bottom. But do you think the bigger picture is natural? These are natural patterns that human beings follow when they get power and control over people. Because that does seem to be the case. It's just on a much grander scale now. I think what you're talking about, power and control, lust and greed, there are individuals that have propensity for those things that are going to fall into those roles very easily. They're pawns. They don't even know that they are supporting something much darker that's happening.

What do you think is the source of this much darker thing? Okay. So this will open the door to answering Sedonia and everything else that we've done. So we're not totally beating around the bush. We're going to bring this all together. I wasn't sure how deep you want to go with this, Joe. and what I'll say is I'm going to acknowledge things we're talking about for a lot of people is a very different way of thinking. And it certainly is different from what I was conditioned. I was born and raised in northern Missouri, a rural community, my first degrees in geology and computer science. This is a very different way of thinking, and it's where the evidence is leading us. What the our most ancient and cherished texts, whether you're talking about religion or

or not religion. They say that we are born into an ancient struggle that began long before we ever got here. And for lack of a better term, and this is where words are powerful and they carry a lot of baggage. It's a struggle between good and evil. We're born into the struggle between good and evil. It's not a religious struggle. When we talk about evil, I think it's important to quantify. what that evil is. And to do that, we have to talk about who we are. There's something inside of

us, Joe, and this is where science is stuck. This is where science and spirituality come together in a beautiful way, and this is where language may fail me. So I'm going to do my best. There's something inside of us that is so rare and so precious and so ancient and sacred and powerful and beautiful, that there are forces that have in history and are currently working to deny us access to this force. The force is the reason for the ancient texts, the spiritual traditions, and there's two ways that we can have this conversation. You can say we can do it from a biblical perspective and talk about angels and demons. We could do it from a high-tech perspective and talk about an advanced civilization from another world and another time, and

you're talking about the same thing, exactly the same conversation. As to our origin, there was an intentional intervention that created us. Biblical traditions are giving us one perspective. The Mesopotamian texts are telling us that we are the product of the blood of a higher form of life. And now the archaeological sites are revealing that those, what's reported in those Sumerian texts, actually existed. I was a member back in the 90s. What specifically did they report in those? Well, the, well, let me say, I was a, in the 90s, I was a member of an organization called B.A.R., biblical archaeology review.

And the idea is that you follow the instructions in the text, and you go someplace and you dig, and there is what the text is talking about from 3,000 years ago. So they use that to try to validate the events, not the religiosity, but the events. In the Mesopotamian texts, when we talk about the Kings List, you've had guests on that talked about the Kings List in Sumeria, that talks, it literally says when the kingship descended from the heavens to the earth and then it gives the list of the kings and then there was another flood and they evacuated and they came back and then they created humans and it actually lines up date-wise with the 200, 250,000 years of when we were created but there's no religion involved.

So two different languages. Are we talking about an advanced civilization and our relationship to them a long time ago? Are we talking about angels and demons from a long time ago? Are we talking about beings with wings in the religious tradition? Or when you look at the Sumerian traditions, the kings all had wings as well. But they're telling the same story. And what the story is, is that we are the product of an intentional act,

and we were imbued with a force that was greater even than those who created us. And there has been an effort from that time to deny us that force. Well, how do you know that our force is greater than those that created us? I don't know this. Where are you getting that from?

That is from, if you're familiar with the Gnostic texts. In the Gnostic texts, the, so the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1946-47, the oldest unedited records of the Old Testament. Pushed the date back a thousand years.

the in 45 and 46 the oldest records of the new testament and the texts that were excluded were discovered in the little village along the nile in egypt called nag hamadi it's can you just tell it's a crazy story sure there's not much firewood uh along the nile in egypt and there was a a woman uh who needed kinling to feed her family to build the fires to feed her family and heat their home. And she told her son, go find some kindling. And he was very resourceful. There's no trees. So he found an old tomb. And in the tomb were clay vases. And he opened those vases. And there were documents that were very dry and brittle and made great kindling. Oh, no. And we don't know how many were lost before the authorities were noted. But right now, they're 13 bound. They cooked a bunch of them? They burned. They used them for fuel.

Oh, my God. But so here's what's left. What's left, there were 13 bound books representing over 50 texts. They were the oldest records of the New Testament. And they were the records that were excluded by the Catholic Church. Is there any images of these books? Yeah. Jamie, can you find those?

Well, I got them on my, I brought this for you. All right. Oh, Jimmy found them. Yeah, so there's the 13 bound text. So among these were things like the Gospel of Thomas, which is considered the second most heretical book in the Nag Hammadi Library. There's the gospel of John, also called the Secret Book of John, also called the Apocryphon of John, which is considered the first most heretical book. There are books from Gnostic women, Thunder Perfect mind is a book by a Gnostic woman that's in there. The Gospel of James is in there. So these,

these, and I'll be very clear, if you had Wes Huff here, I know you've had before, and I think he's brilliant scholar, he would say that these are not accepted because of, they're not accepted by the church, because of dating and because of, you know, there's a lot of reasons, but there's a lot of new research showing that, uh, that these are worthy of exploring with the same validity that we give to the other text that we're seeing. What are they dated to? The, they're dated the late first, early second century, somewhere right around there, some of them later. The book of John, the secret book of John, what makes it so exceptional is that he believes, he said,

that it was dictated to him by Jesus of Nazareth after his crucifixion. So it wasn't before. It came after. But the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Thomas is one of probably the most controversial. It's 114 sayings that were recorded by Thomas. And the book says Didomus Thomas was the name. and it's almost like it's different from all the other books in that it is each saying is a teaching unto itself and what he is saying are again I'm hesitating because we're just covering so much ground here what yeshua was his name what he was teaching was so profound for his time there were outer teachings and inner teachings the outer teachings were for the masses and it's primarily what you see in the Gospels.

The inner teachings were for those initiates that could really understand what it was he was saying, and that's what the Gospel of Thomas appears to be. It did come from a later time. I don't think it invalidates that, you know, what it is that is being said in there. What is it being said? That's so controversial.

Well, there's 114 sayings in there, but the bottom line, and this is one I think that is probably one of the most well-known where he says, what you bring forth from within you will save you, and what you don't bring forth from within you will destroy you. He's saying there's a power inside of us that has to be expressed. And these texts are all about how we awaken that power. Okay. So the name, I'm going to use a word, and then I'll define it. The name that has given to that power traditionally is called divinity, but it has nothing to do with religion. So that association is,

is made because there are schools of divinity that make that, and they're great schools. They do great things. But the contemporary definition of divinity, I love this, the ability to transcend perceived limitations, and that's it. So the ability to transcend to become more than perceived, Joe, you and I, our listeners, we are living limits that probably aren't even real. We're living within limits that we have been indoctrinated to accept about. ourselves. Divinity is our ability to become the best version of ourselves. Expressions of

divinity, imagination. I mean, no other form of life can do what we do with imagination. I want to talk about that in just a moment. It's more than just a picture in your mind. An image in the mind is setting in a motion a cascade of chemical effects in the human body that literally change us. We are changed in the presence of the right kind of imagination. And the books tell us how it's to do that. So imagination, creativity, innovation, empathy, sympathy, love, compassion, healing, forgiveness. These are expressions of human divinity. It's what sets us apart from all the forms of life. It makes us such powerful beings the purpose of evil. And this might be the most important thing that we say today because it's a nebulous concept, good and evil, until you give it a

benchmark. The purpose of evil is to deny human divinity. The purpose of evil is to deny us our greatest expressions, imagination, creativity, the ability to communicate and share our ideas, empathy, sympathy, self-healing, all of those things. So in a very real sense, Joe, anything that denies those things is an expression of evil. So when we find that algorithms are denying us the ability to communicate our ideas from this perspective, that's an expression of evil. When we find, we put something into our bodies that prevents us from healing our own bodies, that is an expression of evil. What the Gnostic text are saying is that we are in a process that has a beginning and an end.

And the purpose of the process is to deny humankind. our own humanness, that has been playing out over eons, and now the technology is allowing it to play out to a greater degree because things like AI, things like misused, I'm not anti-AI, it's how it's used, things like computer chips in the brain, computer brain interface, all of these things. What they're doing, Joe, is they are denying our humanness, use it or lose it. If we're using technology in place of our imagination, for example, and the psychology journals are full of articles about this, people that chronically use artists, musicians, my wife is a voting member of the Grammys, and we just had this conversation.

You've got musicians who go to chat GPT and say, hey, write me a song, and now put some music to that song, and now you enter it with the Grammys. and you are competing against a human who has labored 30 or so years to master their voice and an instrument, and you say, is that fair? Well, they're struggling with that right now. So these are all expressions of anything that denies our humanness. From that perspective is an expression of evil. Who is doing that?

That is what those texts are all about. That's what the text are talking to us about. Here's that interesting. This is Gospel of Thomas 114. This is how it ends. Simon Peter said to them, Let Mary go away from us, for women are not worthy of life. Jesus said, look, I will draw her in so as to make her male

so that she too may become a living male spirit similar to you. But I say to you, every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven. okay so what they're talking what is going on pull up I'm not sure why you chose that one I got just a little bit can you pull up numbers that's a very interesting part

we can talk about it because he it's in code and he's talking about the marriage the sacred marriage of masculine and feminine and it's when you he said when you make the two one and the inside like the outside then you will say the mountain move and the mountain will move

and what he's talking about is is honoring the masculine and the feminine, and that's more than just a metaphor. I mean, there's a whole thing that goes with that. Can you bring up saying number 70? No, I'll go up to 70, sure. Or number 10. Oh, start 70.

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So 70 says, Jesus says, if you bring it into being within you, then that which you have will save you. If you do not have it within you, then that which you do not have within you will kill you. Jesus says, I will destroy this house and no one will be able to build it again. This is the thing. He's in the Christian doctrine.

We were led to believe that he was a peacemaker. And what it says very clearly in the Gospel of Thomas, he says, and if you go to the early... When I was looking at up, the Catholics say that some of this stuff Jesus did say. Oh, he said it. Some of it he did not say, and some of it's flat out and made up. They have a problem with the dating, but they also have a problem. It doesn't support the narrative that was this is what the, so there were two councils. There was a council of Carthage and the council of Nyssa.

And this is where they excluded these documents, but they had been accepted prior to that. Just like Enoch, you've heard people in here talk about the book of Enoch. That was accepted before these as well. So what these are, their inner teachings, not men. for the masses based upon the concepts that he's sharing, and this is where he's saying, there is something inside of us. And the rest of the Gospels, this is what Philip and Thomas are talking about, is that we are imbued with this force, given to no other form of life. It's a light. It is an intelligence. And when we are fully empowered in this intelligence,

we are sovereign critically thinking beings and we are no longer susceptible and vulnerable to the agendas and the ideas of others and there are multiple agendas that are out there. So from this time and now if when you go to the Sumerian text they say the same thing.

They're saying when they beheld what it was if they had created it, it had more light, more power than those that created it. Then you get into the whole conversation Genesis, you know, where it says God created man, but that's a translation error because the original text say Elohim, and Elohim is a plural. Some people will say it's not. There's exceptions to that. But it says, Elohim said, let us create man in our image. So even if

alohem is not plural, us implies more than one God. So the point. The point, of all of this, and we can drill down into the weeds and all of these, but it appears that there was a collective of intelligence that is responsible for us. Okay? That's not science. That's the text. Now you look at the science. The DNA is telling us that 200,000 years ago, there were mutations that cannot happen in nature that imbued us with the ability to communicate with. one another and all of these things that we're talking about. And almost from the moment that we were imbued with these things, there was an attempt to deny us, our power, and now the attempt continues today. So I think a good case can be made. Everything you're seeing happen in the world. It's all important.

The wars, the economies, all the conversation of climate is all important, and there's a level where it has become a distraction to keep us spun up and in fear so that we, because we're so close, Joe, we're so close as a species to awakening this fundamental force within us. The closer we get to that awakening,

the more chaos you see in the world to keep us distracted. And I'll give you a perfect... What is causing this awakening? I think consciousness is... So is this the battle that we have to fight though? Is this like,

because it seems like there's always a pull and a push, right? I think it's a battle or a struggle, depending on what language you want to use. There's a deeper conversation, and I think we're going to get to this in a minute. But what I want to go back, I said I would elaborate on this. There's a part of us that doesn't live in our bodies. Science is struggling with this, but there's a scientific experiment. I've got it here, but if you can bring it up, so let me just tell you about it. But you'll be able to each one, and I've got a key sheet here.

But you'll be able to see it when it's on there. So here, this is a mind-blower. If you haven't heard this. And if you have, let me know. I don't want to be redundant. Well, tell everybody else if I have. Okay. So 2022.

Well, let me ask this. Okay. Do you remember when you were a kid a game called Pong? Pong. Like pink do-to-do-to-do. Pong was a key, I think came out in 72. and it was so primitive, Joe. It's like a...

Sure, I remember. It's like a tennis game on the screen. But computers were new, and we'd never see anything. Like, I would go to work. I was in a secure area, DOD, working on the Peacekeeper Missile Project after lunch. Guys would come in on their CRT screens, and they'd be mesmerized. They couldn't help it. They were mesmerized with this game of Pong, this little boom, boom, boom, boom, and that's all it was.

Okay. So the point is, Pong was pervasive in our culture. Everybody knew what it was. All right. 2022, scientists did an experiment. Now, I've got it, he can find it, or I've got it on that. You can bring it up if you want to see it. Actually, Pong is on there. If you bring up the Pong file. This is part of the problem with the PowerPoint stuff. This kind of stuff happens. I don't think that's what you intended to show, is it? Well, you can see, you can see part of it. But that's, can you back up? No, it's the PowerPoint is. slides and there's there is the there it is right there and you should be able to is it going to animate it for us well i think most people know how pong works okay there it is i used to have it when i'm trying

to say the thing you were trying to get me to show which is the next slide is it's it's got an error in the well so here so here's what they did 2022 scientists took neurons but there was no human attached and they put them into a petri dish to keep them alive and they hook them up the neurons to a computer chip. So now you've got a biology technology interface. All right. So the neurons are hooked up to a chip. The chip was put into a computer that was loaded with Pong. The neurons began playing the game of Pong, even though there was no human attached to the neurons. And the longer they played, the better they got. They were actually learning how to play pong better. And now the scientists are struggling with a question,

how does a neuron, not attached to a human, in a petri dish, know how to play pong? Where are the instructions? Okay. So I remember when I was a kid, Einstein had died, and they had his brain thin sectioned in the University of Kansas because they wanted to see what made his brain different from everybody else. And it looked pretty much like everybody else's, with one exception. He had a whole lot of folds in his brain. So when you stretch those folds out, he had more surface area. He had more neurons. So they're thinking, but there was E equals MC square wasn't in the brain. All right? So now they're looking at those neurons. They're saying, where's the instructions for Pong? You know, and they're trying to figure out where it is.

Well, here's what this experiment is telling us. The instructions, instructions aren't in the neurons. The neurons are a biological antenna, a molecular antenna, that tune to the place in the field where Pong is pervasive. All right, the field. There was a time when the field was a metaphor. You know, metaphysical people, spiritual people, you say, oh, yeah, you know, it's out in the field. July 4th of 2012, the CERN, Superconducting Super Collider made an announcement that they had discovered a field that had been predicted by Peter Higgs, the physicist Peter Higgs. Well, they found the Higgs boson, and what that implied was that there was a field supporting

the boson, and now it's accepted science. They say, oh, yeah, there's a field. So here's the thing. I was at a conference recently. Here's what scientists are doing. This is a hoot. They're still saying this. They're saying, oh, yeah, there's a field out there.

that connects everything and their hands are doing this. The field's not out there. We're the field. 50 trillion cells in the human body. Every one of those cells has about 100 trillion atoms emerging from the field and collapsing into the field right now. You and I, we're constantly, the atoms in our bodies are emerging and collapsing into that field. We are the field, and that is what makes us so powerful.

This is why we can heal our bodies almost instantaneously when we know how to access this part of ourselves because we hold the blueprint that tells those atoms how to express when they come into the body. So if you've got something you don't like in your body, what you do is you are using the gift of imagination to create a new blueprint for that atom to come into. And that sounds crazy to some people. And there's a lot of science that's struggling with this. But when you get into the quantum world, you get into the fact that the Higgs field exists. You get into the fact that imagination in the mirror neurons of the human brain. Mirror neurons were only discovered in 2004. And the thing about mirror neurons is they don't know the difference between watching and experience and having experience.

So, for example, you can be on the couch on a Sunday afternoon watching the Joe Rogan show with an exciting guest, you're just laying there, but your heart might be racing and your body's perspiring your muscle or maybe you're watching soccer because your neurons don't know the difference between watching and having the experience. This is why porn is so addictive because the mirror neurons don't know the difference between having and witnessing the experience, they're going to kick up the same addictive chemicals, the same dopamine, the same levels of adrenaline, watching the image that they are having the image, here's where our power comes from, because the image can be imagined.

When we are able to hold an image of ourselves, fully enabled, fully capacitated, fully healed, fully awakened, hold that image. What we're actually doing is we're programming the body. And this is something shaman's know this. And I live in northern New Mexico. Our indigenous healers all know this. I spend a lot of time in Peru and the Andes, the Andean Peruvians. I think he's different language.

So the point of all of this is we're not what we've been told, and we're so much more that we've been led to believe. And it is the attempt to deny that power that is driving so much of what we're seeing happening in our world today. And so you think the motivation of that attempt is evil? Yes. That's an actual force that people are giving into. This is it. That's why they're enacting all these levels of control, and that's why they're suppressing

people and releasing bots on the Internet. It's literally an expression of evil going through those people. Evil's not necessarily darkness. A lot of people confuse these. Darkness is simply a polar force. We live in a binary world. We've got to have light and dark, plus and minus, boys and girls, girls, you know, we live in, it, the darkness is a passive polarity. Evil has an active

stated purpose. And the purpose of evil has always been, whether you're looking at those ancient texts or the Sumerian texts, Mesopotamian texts, it's always been to deny, to deny us the greatest expressions of our humanness. And now we live in a time, this is no ordinary time in history. None of this is happening in a vacuum. We're barreling down the road toward this convergence of so many natural cycles and the date 2030 that has been identified by the United Nations, by the WEF, by a number of corporations, by Ray Kurzweil, in terms of AI implementation. They're all looking at 2030. And what you're seeing are the powers and the forces of the world jockeying to be in the best position when this date is. upon us. And I'm not saying it's like January 1st, 2030, but the United Nations, for example,

they've got, and again, I don't know if I'm being redundant here, but they've got the UN, SDG, 2030, UN, the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. They want implemented by the year 2030. They're not getting much traction because they're not good ideas. The goals, if you read them on the outside, Joe, they're deceptively beautiful. Who doesn't want food security? Who doesn't want the end of poverty? Who doesn't want the end of disease? Now you look at the fine print. How will they achieve those goals? And that's where it gets very concerning. They haven't had much traction because the way to get there is concerning. They're not good ideas. Now we look at World Economic Forum. I know you've had people talking about W.E.F. They've been around since

1971. They meet once a year in Davos, you know, they talk about what they would like the world to look like, and they have every right to do that. Some of their ideas are very dystopian, in my opinion. Things like, you will own nothing and be happy. You know, we've heard that. Or the Great Reset is the term that they coined, or the Fourth Industrial Revolution. They haven't gotten much traction. But they recognize that. that their goals were similar to the UN. So in 2019, these two organizations joined forces. They signed a formal document.

So now the WEF ideas have traction through the UN implementation of these sustainable development goals. And the goals can be beautiful. I'm not against the goals at all. It's how we go about, do we honor ourselves and do we honor our humanness as we achieve those goals? and there are very different ideas about what, you know, what it is that means.

I have a video clip, W.E.F. Do you see that on there? Can we bring that video clip up? Because in one sentence, Klaus Schwab states the goal for the Fourth Industrial Revolution. And if he doesn't have, I just wanted you hear it in his voice. He said the goal is the merging of the natural world, the digital world, and the biological world, our biological identity. He said the goal of this fourth Industrial Revolution is to merge all of those into this massive database run by AI.

And here, you can hear it. It should be the next. It's at the end. what the fourth industrial revolution will lead to is a fusion of our physical, our digital, and our biological identities. Did you hear how he paused before he said biological? Yeah.

Could you catch that? So he's saying, okay, the physical world's already tokenized. We already, we have a digital ID for every elephant, all the forests, the oceans, all of the energy resources, that's already tokenized. The digital world is already digital, so that's tokenized. Then there's a pause. He said, and, of course, our biological identities because he knows the implication of what

he's saying. That's us. And right now, we are not fully implemented into that system. But that statement, and the reason I wanted to share that, that is what's driving everything you're seeing happening in the world. What all the the implementation of the technology with that statement is driving the implementation of that technology. The AI, the way that we are being indoctrinated to accept it, first accept it in our lives and then develop a dependency upon that AI. Ultimately, there will be some kind of compliance.

We'll be told we need to use the AI in order to, you know, accomplish certain things. Do our banking or, you know, whatever it is. It's all being driven by AI. That sentence is a very, very powerful sentence. He's also couldn't have been delivered by someone who looks more like a villain in a movie. Or sounds like one. Yeah, you're familiar with Klaus Schwab. Oh, yeah, we have a photo of him in the bathroom where it was wearing that crazy Darth Vader outfit.

I saw that in the bathroom and it was dark in the bathroom. It was dark in the bathroom. Such an insane photo. Like, who the hell would dress like that? Who would say the things that that guy, Jamie, find that photo, please? Who would say the things that that guy has said like that, with that accent, and dress this way? Well, this is why we're having this conversation. Joe, you know, I'm advocating for our humanness.

I believe we are... There it is. Like, what? What are you wearing, bro? Like, don't go out dressed like that. No. When you talk like that, you've got to wear suits and you've got to look real normal. What are the emblems?

What are the emblems? It's on an event where everyone was wearing that. Yeah, whatever. Don't wear it. If you talk like Darth Vader, don't wear it. But see, all of this is happening from people. Look at that crazy outfit. This is happening from people that are afraid of our humanists.

They don't know what it means to be human. They're afraid of dying. The transhumanists are afraid of dying, so they want to live forever. Right. Well, they're also extremely wealthy and they want to control the masses. And the best way to control the masses is the control. Is doing it this one. Again.

Yeah. There is a fundamental. It's a very. ancient, if you don't know this, the world looks like it's spinning out of control for no reason. When you begin, and you don't have to think about it every day, but when you look at the big picture, and you can see there's a fundamental struggle between, if you want to use the language good and evil, it's a charged language, and I know that, and that's the language that we're using. But the denial of our human potential. And so the best way, what do we do about that is if the

purpose of the evil is to deny our humanness and our divinity, we triumph by living the best version of ourselves. We triumph by imagining freely and sharing ideas and creating and don't be afraid to have empathy and sympathy and compassion. And now you have a benchmark because when something comes up on social media or something we're asked to do something, we say, well, I don't know if this is a good thing or not. You ask yourself, does it affirm or does it deny my humanness. This is affirm or deny my ability to imagine to create, to love, to forgive, empathy, sympathy, compassion, to share ideas, deep intuition. Does it affirm or deny those? And then that'll tell you what you need to know. What you choose after that is up to the individual,

but it won't be a blind choice. And I think this is up for us right now. Okay, so now evil in technology and the algorithms of social media that are designed to break the social social bonds that have always held us together as communities. And this, this began right around 2011, I think, was the Occupy movement, and it pitted the rich against the poor, 99% against 1%. That's a very real issue. And we, Joe, we could have used that and come to the table and had a conversation and a healing that would bring us closer together as a society. But it was weaponized to drive us apart. And then the same thing happened, men against women, blacks against whites, Christians against Muslims, Jews against Muslims. Now it's male against female and the

genders are being blurred. All of this, by design, breaking the social bonds that hold families and communities and societies together because we're more vulnerable when we lose these bonds. And the algorithms that do that, I mean, I'm fast, as a computer scientist, I'm fascinated by this, we have what are called information silos. So, say, there's parents and their kids, and the mom goes to work, and, you know, she goes on YouTube and inquiries a bunch of stuff, and you know what happens is the algorithm just starts feeding you. I mean, it's everywhere.

You're feeding one perspective of what it is. that you've just queried. Meanwhile, dad's at work. He's doing the same thing. His algorithm has given him a separate perspective. The kids are doing the same thing. And now they meet at the family dinner table. And everybody believes that their story is the real story.

It's the right. It's the true story. That breaks the social bonds. And we're seeing this happen. We're seeing this happen in our society. And, you know, there is a, it's following an algorithm that's very easy. Are you familiar with Saul Olenski? I think you're probably...

Rules for radicals. Yeah, rules for radicals. This is exactly what it's following. He said you choose a target, you freeze that target, you isolate it, you personalize it, and you polarize it. And that's exactly what's being, it's a simple algorithm, and that's exactly, you think of all those things we just talked about. All of a sudden, it's all you see in the news, you're freezing it for everybody to see. You're personalizing it. What is that?

How are you getting ripped off and how is it hurting you if you do that? And then you polarize that. And it just drives people apart because they believe what they're being shown. And so my invitation. Add that to the fact that people are addicted to social media. So they're addicted to being inundated by all this propaganda and all these various competing narratives. You can't leave your phone alone. It's more and more addictive every time you pick it up.

The newer ones are even better. The screens are even bigger. Now you've got a foldable one. It opens up to do it tablets in your pocket. and people are just full-on addicted to what is a lot of negative information, far more than you would get just living your ordinary life. You don't see much information, you don't see joyous information that brings us together very often. Do you? Do you see anything? Well, you can if you curate your feed well, but the problem is if you spend any amount of time, you're going to be impacted by some ideas that you don't like.

you know there's going to be a lot of negativity like there's a lot of things that x shows me that i did not sign up for this person's page i don't know they just showed up in my feed i do not follow them but all of a sudden it appears and i read it and i'm like oh this is fucking horrible this is like what a terrible take and you see people arguing on the worst most evil way possible for celebrating people's deaths and hoping more people die and you're like oh my god i got to get out of here That is evil. I mean, I'm not saying that those human beings are evil.

I think most of those human beings don't even know what they're doing. Exactly. They don't even think of it as real life. They think of it. It's called shit posting. You know what shit posting is? You know, people just post things for the lulls. They just posted to get reactions out of people.

And there's a lot of that going on. There's a lot of people expressing their boredom with negativity, expressing their frustration with their station in life, with negativity online, and then feeding into it, arguing with other people. instead of addressing their own individual, real life problems, they start looking at all these things that they're creating online. That's the primary focus, like throughout the day, is these stupid ideological battles they're having with people that might not even be real people. It's evil. It's kind of evil. It is.

Because it's robbing what you're saying. It's robbing you of your opportunity to achieve a higher level of humanity. Well, I think what you said is really important. Many people are naive. Because they are participating doesn't mean that they're even. evil people. Right. And even, that even goes for, for most people, even people that do a lot of horrible acts. I agree. Because they're trapped. But see, this is why I said what I said earlier, we can tie into this. People who have a propensity, they have a spiritual weakness. This is a,

this is a spiritual battle, not religious, but it's a deeply spiritual battle it's playing out on earth right now. And it's showing up in every facet of our lives, whether we want to think about it or not, people that have a propensity for greed because that's their spiritual weakness or a propensity for power or control, they will fall into those roles. They don't even know. And I've worked with people, and I've been in organizations, and I've seen it happen. They're naive. Many of them, some of them know exactly what they're doing. There are some that know exactly what they're doing, but most of them are very naive and they want to be relevant. And so they will follow the pack, is what they will do.

And so this is where I think you can recognize, this is where discernment comes in, to recognize it without judging it because this is a spiritual battle. And at the end of the day, what matters, Joe, is what do we become in the presence of what the world shows us?

What do we allow the events of the world to make us into. Do we allow an election that didn't turn the way that we had wanted to reduce us to the most primal levels of hate and revenge and anger, something we never do in a million years, but we succumbed to that? Or do we recognize what it is that has happened? And doesn't mean we have to agree with it. But the question is, do we make the decisions from our love of the families behind us and our friends and our community?

Or do we make our decisions from the fear of what we perceive as our enemy in front of us? And that happens every moment of every day. I have been in a business meeting with someone who is pure evil, pure evil. And the first time it happened, it caught me off guard. and then I learned and it will never happen actually can you tell me what the meeting was I can't give me some details it was it was a business it was in this industry that we're in right now in the information industry the publishing industry and I was with an individual who I'm hesitating the words that I use here I found myself

saying things that I would never say in a million years while that individual was looking at me and smiling because he was somehow inciting me to say those things. It was almost like in some way there was a force that I had not learned to reckon with. I have since learned. Were you young at the time? I was an adult. I was younger than I am now. Yeah. And, you know, this is, this comes up for all of us in different ways. So, but you're not taking responsibility for the words that are coming out of your mouth? I couldn't stop it. That was the weird thing. I couldn't stop it. But do you think that was anxiety? I mean, I don't know what it was, Joe. I heard my, I heard myself say, I was dissociated. I heard myself saying them and I didn't want to say them.

Right. Couldn't you attribute that to a lot of psychological factors like anxiety and stress and, and, you know, the anticipation of this moment? moment. I could accept power structures. I could accept that he was looking right at me and he had this smile. And when I saw him again, he tried to do the same thing again and it didn't work. He tried to do it. See, this is my problem with this. You're not taking personal responsibility for the words that are coming out of your mouth. I did. Right. But you're saying that this guy forced those words to coming out of you. And that is where it gets a little slippery because why would you not just assume that it was your own anxiety? their own stress level.

People behave out of pocket sometimes. They think outside of their own character sometimes. They talk out of character. And then they go, I don't even know why I was saying that. I'm sorry. You know, that happens. I agree. I agree with you 100%, Joe.

And there are other circumstances that I just can't talk about. But you think this person was actually an evil person. Oh, I know. Yeah. I know that this person was. And other people have had similar experiences that continue to have similar experiences. Well, I don't doubt that there are legitimately, actually fully evil people in the world. And I think there's a lot of evidence that those people have existed historically.

I mean, you think about some of the atrocities that people have done throughout history. Just, I mean, the obvious one is Hitler. But, I mean, you could go through history. Genghis Khan. I mean, you could, there's so many people that have done unbelievably evil things in this world. When that happens, and it's happening today, I mean, it's happening today. Right now. Yeah. You don't have to look at history. Look at Gaza. Those, yep, that's a perfect example. To do what is happening there when it comes human to human, the only way that a human,

one human can perpetrate that onto another is to sever the relationship to their divinity. All right. And we have the choice to do that. We can deny our divinity. We can have it taken from us by those who have power over us, or we can technology can deny our divinity. but someone who, and that is closely linked to the soul, which is not the spirit. So the soul is our localized, you know, lifetime experience. When we sever that relationship, that is what allows an individual to carry out those kinds of atrocities.

because an individual who is connected to their divinity in their soul could never look at another human in the eye and hurt them the way that we know that has happened in our lives. And it has. It's happened throughout history. So my focus, what I'm really passionate about, and it's not just like any old time in history. We're on the precipice, Joe. I mean, the decisions are being made within the next couple of years as to whether or not we will give our humanness away to technology or if we allow the technology to serve us but not enslave us. AI is an example of that, the brain computer interfaces that are going on, BCI, that's a big conversation going on right now. And if we get lost in the weeds of just AI or just the BCI, it's easy to do that.

But I think it's important to keep, there's a bigger picture. There's a struggle. There's an ancient struggle going on here. And it is because, this is what's so powerful. It's because there's something inside of us that's worth the struggle. And our children are not being taught that. Our young kids are being told that they're a flawed form of life. They need something outside of our bodies.

to protect our kids. What do you think that thing is? Do you think that's what the soul is? I think it's our divinity is the ability to express, and this is going back to the Gnostic text. This is why they were heretical, because the Gnostic text said that we have a hotline to a higher realm, that we don't have to go through an intermediary, that we, that we, are imbued with this spark or whatever language you want to use given the norther form of life

and that when we awaken that that we we become godlike not god but god like and this was the message of yeshua in the gnostic texts and that's the the message that was denied and called heretical because the if we are that then we don't need an intermediary so so I think what we're looking at right now is is do we love ourselves enough do we love ourselves enough to accept the gift of our humanness and what it means to be human and what it means to be divine and not bring religion into the conversation but maybe just find another word if people aren't comfortable with that word but I really want people to know and especially you know, I do live events with these young kids, Joe, and they've been taught to worship

technology. The computer chip is God. AI is God. And then I show them, and I've showed some studies. Salk Institute in Northern California did the study, and they compared a human brain to a microprocessor. And you say, well, how can you make that comparison? I said that. The microprocessor has about the same number of transistors that the human brain has of synapses in the brain. Interestingly, it's about the same number. And so they ran all these tests. And what they found, literally, the human brain, okay, the computer chip, is it fast? Yes. Is it efficient? Yes. Is it scalable? You can only scale the chip. It'll only run as fast as the physics that of the stuff it's made of will allow, the silicon or whatever it is. And then it tops out.

the human brain. Is it fast? Yes. Is efficient? Yes. Is it scalable? What is the top end of a human brain? And the answer is we don't know. Because every time we push a human brain to what we think is the limit that we've been taught to accept, this is the beauty of our divinity. What we do is we morph and adapt and open up a whole new vista of potentials. Tibetan monks are perfectly example of this. When I was in school, again, back 50s and 60s, we were taught that the human brain maxes out about 40 hertz, 40 cycles per second, all the medical books, textbooks, everything. And then these Tibetan monks came along and they said, wow, if we do a certain kind of meditation, you know, we'll exceed that. Now they bumped, they doubled it. They went to 80, 80 hertz.

The scientist said, okay, so maybe we got it wrong once, but the human brain can't possibly do any more than that. And the monks said, well, you know, if we do a different kind of meditation, you know where this is going. And then they push it up to 100 hertz, and then they had to come up with another brain state called gamma. And then they push it to 120 and 130 and 150 and 100 cycles per second. Now they have to call it hyper gamma. But then they even went the other direction, Joe. This is a mindblower. We typically think when a human brain shows less than one cycle per second,

of processing. Less than one hurts, that person's not there anymore. And the monks were able to consciously drive their brain state to 0.5 hertz, less than one. They're very conscious, they're very awake. They're just in a way different state of mind. And that opens the door to a lot of questions about, you know, what does it mean when you see low brain activity? Is someone actually in a healing state or are they really not there? I think it deserves more study. But the point of all of this, and there is a point, is that through nothing more than breath and focus, so nothing external, no chemicals, no machines, those Tibetan monks demonstrated that we not only meet, but we are exceeding the brain capacity that we thought we had in the past. And the fascinating

anything about them is you would have to do what they do to be able to understand how their brain functions. You would have to have meditated for 30 plus years in the same exact way to achieve these states that they achieve. Otherwise, you're just guessing about what that's like. I led groups in the Tibet from the mid-90s to the early 2000s. And we would go to 12 monasteries and two nunneries over 26 days. And we would sit with these people and through the translators. they would teach us and you don't you could spend that kind of time but the beauty is you don't have to so to get to their level it's not like other things like you get really good at guitar by practicing for years and years it's not the same thing it is no you there is practice and there is discipline

absolutely i'm not denying that all what i'm saying is like there's an eddy van halen of being a monk you know what i mean yeah like the regular guy can't shred like that right you but edie van Halen played guitar for thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hours with an incredible focus and became Eddie Van Halen. If you're a monk, you know Eddie Van Halen is. I love this analogy. I do. You know what I'm saying?

To be a virtuoso, to be a Steve Ray Vaughn, to be Jimmy Hendricks. It requires immense amount of time. Yes. I would imagine to get really good at that kind of meditation, it would be a similar thing. There's a discipline. There is a discipline. But are there levels that get reached, like when someone's like a true master, they've been doing it for 20 years, they can do something, they can get to a state that other people can't get to? There are, Joe, and what I want to say is there are levels that you and I can do right this minute.

I don't know if you've had any of the folks from the Institute of Heart Math. It's a pioneering research organization, Northern California, been around since 1994. I've worked with them since 95. they explore the power of the human heart beyond being simply a pump in the body. That's probably the least of what it does. And what they have done and made very accessible to the average person is the ability to create coherence between the heart and the brain. And that can happen in a heartbeat. So here's what I mean by that.

1991. By the way, I want to honor your time. Are we okay on time? Yeah, we've seen. Yeah. Okay. Has it been an hour yet? We've got more than an hour.

Yeah. We're almost two hours. I know. I'm kidding. Don't worry about anything. Just let's talk. All right. I'm having a great time. I'm too. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Fascinating. Yeah, 91, scientists discovered in the human heart. I mean, 91's not that long ago.

No. And scientists are thinking, okay, we got the body nailed. You know, we know how this works. We do heart transplants. They're successful. So we must have this all figured out. They discovered 40,000 specialized cells. in the human heart, called sensory neurites. And when I say discovered, they've always been there, but nobody looked because they're

like neurons, Joe, but they're not in the brain. And you think, well, why are they neurons in the heart? Right. They think independently, they feel independently, and they process independently from the neurons in the human brain. And so right there, there's a whole conversation about when we have trauma, our trauma is recorded in two different places. You can do talk therapy in the brain. If you don't address the heart, it may feel incomplete to have that therapy. So here's why I'm sharing this.

Now we've got two neural networks, one in the heart, one in the brain. An Institute of Heart Math made available the techniques, three very simple steps to harmonize two neural networks into a single potent system. And we are the only form of life that can do this. this at will, on demand, we choose. We're the only form of life that can sit in a chair and say in this moment, I choose to create, the term is coherence. And the coherence, optimum coherence, is a low frequency, 0.1 hertz. So we're the only form of life that can choose to create 0.1 hertz between the heart

and the brain, harmonizing two organs become one potent system in the body. And when that happens, man, there's a whole cat. cascade of things. So let me, two categories, passive, passive benefits, just from harmonizing the heart and the brain, you supercharge the immune system. And this is something I've done at least once a day since 90, 95 when I learned it, and sometimes multiple times a day. Superimmune response. You awaken longevity enzymes that everybody has in the body, but often go dormant for some people as they age. You can wake them up pretty quick.

Stem cells. You can wake them up pretty quick. Resilience to change. And this is fascinating me because when young, we all know this, young kids are really resilient to change. I come from a very dysfunctional alcoholic family. We moved. My father left when I was 10.

We moved every year. And I went to a different school every year and had to make new friends every year. took a lot of resilience to do that. I could do that then. I probably have problems doing something like that now, because typically as we age, we lose resilience. That is directly linked to what's called heart rate variability, HRV. So, you know, every heartbeat that goes, boom, boom, it's the QRS complex. And the time from one peak to the next to the next to the next varies, when we're young it varies a lot and that gives us resilience when we age it becomes more regular we lose our resilience set in our waves through harmonizing heart in the brain you can actually

reset that heart rate variability to to the point where it was when you were younger and it doesn't take long to do that so those are our passive benefits now active benefits once you're in that space and this is where the really juicy stuff happens deep intuition so this is where you do precognition you have the ability your heart will sense an event before it actually happens and there's science showing why that is like so many people knew 9-11 was going to happen before it happened and i'm not saying they did this but they they knew intuitively this is a way to awaken that kind of intuition on demand. Deep intuition on demand.

There are 1,300 positive biochemical reactions from harmonizing the heart and the brain. All right. And what is the method you use to harmonize? Three steps. One is you shift your focus from your mind into your heart. And I've led groups with indigenous people all over the world for 40 years.

And the way they all do this is the lower touch their heart to bring their awareness to their heart center. Some people use a finger or two. If you're in the Mayan cultures, in Mexico, they use a full palm. You see this in the Middle East. People will greet one another with a full palm. Buddhist will do it like this and nestle that prayer mudra right there. And the point is that your awareness will always go to the place on your body where you feel the touch. Like if I touch my arm, my awareness went there. It's the first step. So you meet someone, you put your hands on your heart to bring awareness to your heart?

Yeah, yeah, you can do it that way. This is what they do. So the first step in heart brain coherence developed by the Institute of Heart Math, you shift your awareness from your mind into your heart, first step. Second step is to slow your breathing. And the key here, it's not just enough just to slow it, but you exhale for a period of time longer than you inhale, because we all breathe at a different rate. So, for example, if we inhale four counts and release six, okay, that might work for me. Somebody at, you know, higher elevation might do it differently. But the point, the point is when you release, when you exhale for a period of time longer than you inhale, that triggers the relaxation response, parasympathetic, nervous

system. You're telling your body, it's a language. And what you're doing is you're telling your body, am safe because that's the only time you're right and hyperventilating is the opposite of yeah you don't feel safe at all yeah so the second step is your your breathing slower longer on the exhale focusing as if your breath is coming from your heart while your focus is on your heart two steps the third step is where you create 0.01 hurts you feel a feeling a positive feeling because you choose to feel the feeling and this is deceptively powerful, Joe, because most forms of life, including humans, only have a feeling in response to what the world shows to them. We have the ability to have a feeling because we choose

to have the feeling. And what the science is showing is that the feeling of gratitude almost 100% works for everyone. We all can sense gratitude. I mean, you can think of words like compassion. That means different things, different people, love means different things. But we can be grateful for our children, our families, our lives, something like that. And when we feel that feeling, it sends a signal, a very low frequency, 0.1 hertz from the heart to the brain in the presence of the slower breathing. And that harmonization between the heart in the brain is what gives all the benefits that we just shared. Everything, you know, super immune response, stem cells, longevity enzymes, all of those things. And it's also if people do affirmations.

This is the place. An affirmation is a message to the subconscious. And you have to speak in the language that the subconscious recognizes. And the coherence between the heart and the brain is like a hotline to the subconscious, but you don't have to be hypnotized. So when you're saying affirmations, if you do it during that time, they're even more potent. And, you know, we could spend a lot of time talking about the role of imagination, mirror neurons, all of that happening within the presence. At the point, going back to what you were mentioning about the Tibetan monks, Yeah, you can study years learning what they're learning, and there are benefits that we can access pretty quickly. And it's science-based.

I mean, this is all peer-reviewed. This is the beauty of the Institute of HeartMath. They publish in peer-reviewed journals, and they've done much more. I'm just scratching the surface. If anyone is not familiar with that, I invite people to go to WWW Heart Math, H-E-A-R-T-M-A-H-H-R-T-H-H-H-H-E-H-H-H-H-E-H-H-H-H-E-H-H-H-H-E-H-H-H. And it's all free. You can check it out. So do you believe that the connection between the heart and the mind when you achieve that state that increases your intuition?

Absolutely. Between the heart and the brain. What did I say? The heart and the mind. I said the heart and the mind. It's the heart and the brain. And what you said, this is such a good question, Joe. And here's the reason.

And this is one of the places where it's so powerful. I mean, you can use this stuff in a business environment for this very reason. when we look at the world and solve our problems from our mind, our brain, brain's left and right brain, so, you know, you've got logic and intuition over here, those are the ego loops, and the brain will always work in polarity. That's where you're going to get right and wrong, good and bad, success failure, worthy, not worthy, and the ego, man, it'll spin you up in those loops for hours. but here's the thing.

The heart is non-polarity. It's not a polar organ. So when you harmonize the heart and the brain, what you're doing is you're bypassing the ego loops. And here's where that can be powerful. I did this in a corporate boardroom. I was the youngest, so I was the first tech ops manager at Cisco Systems, 1990, when they got the RFP for a protocol converter

so that all the branches of the armed services computers could talk to all the others before the first Gulf War and when I would go into the boardroom with an idea and I knew that I was going to be criticized I'm also a cancerian male and if you know anything about

I've never heard anybody use that term cancerian yeah well that's my sign my birth signs in cancer I understand what it is but I'm never heard of the term and very emotions plays a big role. It doesn't have to, you know, it's a stereotype, but it happens to be true for me. Right. Emotion plays a big role. Criticism coming from an alcoholic family. My father was

the abuser and the criticizer. And I've spent my whole life, you know, working to, I'm still healing, you know, from that. So when somebody would criticize my ideas, you know, it'd be hurtful. I'd take it personally. When you move into the coherence and you're not taking that criticism, through good, bad, right, wrong, success failure, now you can be much more objective and you can listen to it. And when they're finished, you can say, well, you know, have you ever considered this? Because you haven't reacted. And it's a really powerful place to... Well, it certainly works if you're talking to a good faith actor. Someone who's really wants to talk about stuff and has a legitimate criticism. But most of the time when people

are criticizing you, they're trying to hurt your feelings. They are. I never read my book reviews That's a good move. I mean, it's not that criticism is bad. Criticism is critical. Like, you can learn a lot from intelligent people from their perspectives of things. I've learned a lot from other people's criticism. But the difference between that and dwelling on criticism, that's the part where people get wrapped up in their own identity and also interpersonal conflicts.

If you're a kind of person who, like, you're naturally argumentative and then someone says something, that's not fucking true. And you want to say something back, but it's just, it's a lot of negativity and a lot of wasted time. And the way I try to describe it, especially to emerging famous people, and I'm like, you have to think of your life as if, like, your energy is a number. Like, you have 100 energies for the day. You know, like, it's a unit.

And if you're spending 30 or 40 of those energies on 30 or 40 of those units on social media and of criticism and negativity, it's going to rob the 60% that you really enjoy. It's going to rob your time with your friends, your family, your hobbies, your job, your community, whatever you really love, hanging out with your dog. You know, like this is people right now that are going on a walk with their sweet, sweet dog and they're thinking about some mean post that someone made and the mean shit they're going to say to get back of that person. Meanwhile, they're with this beautiful animal that if you got on your knees, you go, are you

having a good time. They give you kisses and they put their paw on. Like you're having so much fun. It's so beautiful and loving. And you're thinking about something stupid that has no bearing on this moment. And you can't escape. You can't escape. You're like psychically connected to this negativity. That's a tool. It's a powerful tool. That's why I tell them it's not worth it. Well, this helps to be objective. So you can hear the criticism. I'm open to criticism. It should be one-on-one. Constructive. Honestly, it should be one-on-one with compassionate people. Not my Amazon book review. Well, there's people out there that are critics, and this is an important distinction, they're critics because they don't have anything to contribute.

And they didn't want to be critics, especially professional critics. A lot of them wanted to be professional writers, but their work was not good. Like Roger Eber wrote one of the craziest scripts of all time. Have you ever read it? No. Have you ever heard of it? I know Roger Eber. I know the script.

Very strange, like, out there. Was it not, like, hypersexual? What was it about? Anyway, widely panned as being fucking terrible. But this is the guy that is the guy that back in the day was the guy to review movies. And it would be so snarky and so bite. But you have to realize, like, look at him. Look at these people.

Look at the way they talk. Is this the kind of opinion you value? Like, why is this the thing that gets elevated? Wouldn't you rather have the opinion of someone who really enjoy it? joys go into the movies and has great things to say about performing. It's like someone who's enjoying, not someone who wants to be pissed off so they can say the snarkiest, shittiest. And you've ever seen the videos of the two of those guys arguing with each other off-camera?

I have. I have. Those are amazing. They called them bloopers. And I like the bloopers better in the reviews. Way better, because that's the real guys. They're really shitty guys. They're super shitty to each other.

They're both so nasty to each other. It's like, so those are the people that are dictating what is good. and bad in culture, that's nuts. That's the problem with criticism. That's the problem with critics. A lot of them are shitheads. Yep. So you're getting the opinions primarily of shitheads.

But see, but what you're doing through coherence is that you're defusing that the shithead criticism from having the impact on you so that you're thinking about it while you're out walking your dog on a beautiful day. Well, that's a beautiful thing if you can do that. Yeah. If you could separate yourself from what they said. But the only way you could really do that is if you are 100% happy with what you've done. So if you write a book and that book, you nailed it, you love it.

It's amazing. If someone's, like, really critical of it, it's not for you. But the thing that I made is perfect for the people who like the thing that I made. You know, and that's, if you can get to a place where you could do that, that's great. But you have to know that you put your all into what you did so that you don't feel bad about other people's negative opinion of it. Oh, I agree. But if you have some thing, like I kind of half-assed that, I could have spent more time on this. I wasn't really committed to that.

If you're doing that, then the criticism hurts because you know it's valid. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you're going to do some, I think whatever we do, book or, you know, music or whatever it is, we do put a million percent into it. I learned this, you know, my dad left when I was 10, and our family was devastated. My mom was my mom. I have a younger brother, four years younger, and myself. A mom all of a sudden was raising, you know, two boys. And we knew we were in for some pretty rough ties, man. We were more than broke. We ended up living in government subsidized housing. And, you know, it was a tough time. And mom gave me a book at 10 years old. She handed me this book. And she said, I think this is going to be useful to you in your life. And you may know this book. It was by a man named Khalil Gabran. Sure. It's called The Prophet. And I read it to this day.

And there are different pieces that mean different things to me throughout my life. But there was one piece where he talked about work. And in the environment I grew up in, my father hated his job. He hated work. My friends all hated their work. They just wanted to make money. And Khalil Gibran, this is on every email that I write right at the bottom. Khalil Gibran said, work is love made visible.

And I like that because it means. that when we're going to do something, you do it to the best of your ability and even more, or don't do it at all. If you're going to do it, do it really, really well and find a way to give meaning to what you're doing. So, you know, I went to work. I used to work midnight to 6 a.m.

And a warehouse loading, I don't talk about this a lot, but I was loading 50-pound bags of Purina Catchow on the box cars so they could go out in the morning it to this distribution. And the guys I work with, man, they hated. They hated their job. And I said, you know what? If I do this just right, 50 pound bags, if I use my legs, I can get a pretty good leg workout out of this. And then when I'm done with that after dinner, I'll come back and I can get a good

upper body workout and I can use my arms. And all of a sudden, I was getting paid for a great workout and they had a box car full of Purina, a cat chow, and it was love made visible. And that's It's a great perspective. Well, it has stayed with me, and I'm saying this because if I write a book or if I do an event, anything I do. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it really to the best of my ability. If I can't do it to best of my ability, I'll just, if I don't believe in it, I won't do it. It's hard for young people to hear that because, you know, they're doing a job that sucks.

They just want to get out of there and go do what they love. And sometimes a job that sucks is really good motivation to get you to work harder to go out and do the thing that you want to do that you love. Because I don't think I would ever appreciate the life that I have now if I didn't have a bunch of really terrible jobs when I was young. We all did, and I think there is something to be said. If for a young person, I mean, I used to do lawns. I was a cook.

None of it was my dream. But I said, if I'm going to do it, I want to do it really, I'm going to do this really well. Well, that's great attitude. And I got out of that was like, oh, my God, this is. drains you of your life force. But we're better for it if we can approach it in that way. And then when you don't do it anymore, you stop doing it. Well, yeah, I mean, if you have a negative attitude about something that you're doing

versus a positive attitude, you can do the exact same thing with a positive attitude and actually enjoy it and just have fun. And especially if you're working with good people. So I have a question for you. Okay. When you invited me here, I've got 40 years of work. Was there one particular facet of that work? that you wanted to explore and talk about?

Oh, I've seen your work for a long time, and I've seen you say a lot of really interesting things for a long time. It wasn't any one thing. Okay. Although there was a conversation that you had recently that I thought was very interesting. I don't know if it was recently, but it made it into my social media feeds recently where you were talking to someone about climate change. And you were talking about carbon in the environment,

and its actual effect versus a lot of the narrative. that you hear about this Green New Deal stuff and just the climate, the freak out, the climate freak out from the Al Gore film, which, by the way, freaked everybody out and was totally inaccurate. It was horribly inaccurate. This was a film, an inconvenient truth from, was it 2005? It was it before that? Yeah. So this film freaked literally. freaked everyone out. It was a PowerPoint. He did a PowerPoint presentation. 2006. Oh, it was. Oh, wow. Yeah, he gave a PowerPoint presentation and recorded it. And this film was all about how we are fucked. And by this time, the time we're living in right now, 2025, the Earth is supposed to be unlivable.

I mean, it's not, I'm exaggerating, but like Miami's underwater, the coasts, but meanwhile, the coasts haven't moved at all. And some of the wealthiest, most influential people in the world buy property on the coastline. That, by the way, I should tell you, you know, if the billionaires are buying beach houses, I think it's going to be okay in that regard. But it's also, like, he made a lot of money off of it. It became really weird because it became he was speaking everywhere and he made hundreds of millions of dollars. Carbon credits. He created the carbon credit system. Yeah. The whole thing is kind of nuts when you're that wrong and nobody even calls you out on it.

Like, you freaked everybody out from when I saw it in 2006. All my friends were like, oh, my. God, we've got to do something now. We're all freaked out. 20 years later, very little difference. It's not, what he said wasn't true. And there's a lot of weird, inconvenient things. One of the things that Randall Carlson brings up is one of the things about carbon is there's more green now on the surface of Earth and there has been.

Absolutely. How many years? How many years has it been? 20. Well, NASA says I have some slides called climate if we want to look at any of these. If people don't know why that would be, it was, well, plants eat carbon dioxide. So here's, I mean, we could do a whole three hours on this. Maybe we come back and do that.

I'm a degree geologist, and I began looking at climate in 1979 when I was in the energy industry in Denver, Colorado. Climate change is a fact, and I want to be on record. I want to say it is a fact. It's constantly changing. and Earth is warming. And if we weren't, I would be concerned because the warming is cyclic. And if we weren't warming now, I wonder why we're not warming now. And I want to be very clear, we need to find clean, green, sustainable forms of energy.

And we've had them, Joe, for 70 years. If we were, it goes even beyond thorium. I don't know if you're familiar with thorium. No, what's that? So the Manhattan Project... Sounds like an antidepressant. No, no, this is... It's a mineral.

It's an element. During the Manhattan Project, when they, you know, did the crash program for the weapon, they went through the periodic table to find out what elements could possibly be used to create the energy. And they chose uranium because the byproduct was the plutonium that they needed for the weapon and for the nuclear reactors. But it's not the only element that would work. Element number 90 is thorium. Thorium is abundant in the earth's crust.

It's inexpensive. It's almost every nation has access to it, so it's very easy to get. It cannot melt down like a Fukushima. It cannot be weaponized, which is one of the reasons that they're not using. The waste can become the new fuel. It can be recycled as the fuel. What? Thorium element number 90.

And if you look it up, this is why Wikipedia is a problem. If you look up Wikipedia and some of these other things, they'll say, well, it's theoretical. We had thorium reactors back in the 80s, China, Russia, the United States had them in Colorado. There was an Indian River facility that was largely the run on, it's called thorium salts is what they were doing. And that's just one example. So what I'm saying is if we were serious about clean, green, sustainable energy, there are technologies that they would have allowed us to have that we haven't, all right? So I just, I want to say that. When it comes to, this is part of our earlier conversation, we are being taught to demonize carbon in general.

And our young people are frightened of carbon. They think carbon is bad, carbon is evil. Carbon is what we're made out of. And so they have no problem relinquishing their carbon-based, frail, fragile, flawed bodies for the technology because they've already been taught that carbon is bad. Which is bananas. Well, it is bananas. So here's the thing.

I can't believe it worked. Well, we've got, it's psychology. There's a whole story behind that. So I've got some images. I don't know if we want to bring them up. But that's this narrow view of carbon is so crazy. right now, so CO2 levels right now, about 418, 420 parts per million, which is higher than it's been in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, that's true.

Is it dangerously high? No. And as a geologist, here's why I can say that. When we go look at the geologic record, there are times we've had CO2 levels have been 1,000 parts per million, 2,000 parts per million. And Earth was lush, Earth was green, it was definitely a little warmer, and we've had CO2 warmer, the ice melted, the sea levels did rise, okay? That's a problem for people that build 10 feet from the sea, thinking that the sea is always going to be 10 feet away. Right. All right.

Some of the most abundant times for life during Jurassic period, Cretaceous, during these periods. And what's interesting is you can have very high carbon dioxide levels, historically, and the temperatures are low, and vice versa. You can have high temperatures and the CO2 is low. And then one of the kickers is from the Vostok ice cores. So we recognize warming was happening. Scientists went to Antarctica. Okay, I'm going to back up for people who may not be familiar with this.

Every year there's a new layer of ice that is laid down in Greenland and Antarctica. and in that layer of ice is captured little air bubbles of the atmosphere and particles of pollen and particles of volcanic dust. And we can tell from that layer what the temperatures have been, what the magnetic strength of the Earth has been, how strong the sun has been. I mean, all this stuff. Amazing. It is a mind blower. I'm just amazed. We actually have ice core libraries.

So, I mean, very cold, refrigerated rooms where they... Yeah, I've seen that. They take the cores. It's wild. Yeah. So scientists recognize the ice was... If you can pull a video that up. It's so fascinating to look at it.

If people hadn't seen it. I may have some pictures and it's under climate on the power points. So what they did was they said, let's... We don't know what's happening is what scientists said. Let's capture as much information as we can before the ice melts. So they drilled in Vostok, Antarctica, and they ended up going back 420,000 years of layers of ice, continuous layers. Whoa. How deep is that?

I'm not sure how deep that is. It was they drilled below that was Vostock Lake. So they went down as far as they could before they hit the lake. That's a hell of a pipe. It is. And you can see, so here's here, and this was in the, the 80s. 80s and 90s, they were doing this. And the real scientists know what I'm going to say, the real geologists that are not politicized and are not beholden to academic or corporate interests that

are paying their paychecks. One of the problems is in those ice cores, the temperature actually rises before the CO2 levels. If the CO2 is causing that rise, that's a problem because you would expect the CO2 to rise first and then the temperature and that's not what the ice cores. I do have a slide of that if he wants to bring that up. So it suggests that something else is happening. And when we look at it's this one right, it's on the lower left, the second slide from the lower left. I can't see this is a lot of slides folks there's 28 slides yeah this is a presentation that I gave okay right there so what you're seeing is the the red is

temperature and blue yeah and the you can see that the the red if you're coming from the past to the present the red is rising first and then the blue follows So the temperatures are rising first, and then the carbon dioxide is rising. Now, there's a reason for that, and a lot of people don't like this. What's driving climate change is under our feet. Humans are not causing it, all right? I know that's a big statement, and it's different than what a lot of people have heard, and I'm going to acknowledge that.

NASA said, I've got a slide showing that. NASA is showing 90% of the CO2 in the atmosphere. Joe, is coming from the outgassing of the oceans, all right? We know from high school science, yeah, from high school science that cold water holds more gas. The oceans are warming, and that's a fact, and as they warm, they're releasing that CO2 into the atmosphere. The kicker is they're warming from underneath, not from top. So they're not, you don't think they're warming from, from,

whatever we're doing to the atmosphere. No. Now, we are definitely contributing to CO2 in the atmosphere. What would be the factor? What would be the cause of the warming from below? We're going to go through this. I should probably just go. I have another one on there on magnetic migrations.

Okay, so here's. Now you're going to freak me out. No, Randall Carlson and I have both. This is a pole shifting deal? No, no. And I don't see any evidence of all the things to be concerned about. at before the poles can shift, which they do occasionally, three factors have to be in place and they're not there right now. So let me just say that right now.

Thank you for that, because I've been freaking out about that one. No, they, they, however, we're asking the wrong question. They're not shifting, they're migrating. Oh, great. And the migration, what happens, I'm not sure how far back to go. So what we know is Paul LaViolette, the 1980s. I knew him before he passed. He was a brilliant, brilliant physicist, wrote a book called Earth Under Fire that was ridiculed a lot in the 80s. And what he said is that every once in a while, on a clockwork basis, there is a volley of cosmic rays that comes, cosmic rays that come

from the center of our Milky Way. And cosmic rays, like they're passing through you and me right now, because we're mostly empty. You know, we're 99.99% nothing. Neutrinos and stuff like that. Exactly. And when they pass into the crust of the earth, nothing happens. In the core, the core is so dense, Joe, because of the pressure of the earth.

It's iron nickel. And it's so dense that those, they can't pass through. And it actually causes what's called perturbations. And it begins to heat the core of the earth. and that causes, it shifts rotation. And right now, Japanese scientists are saying that the core is slowed or possibly even stopped. I don't know if your guests have talked about that. And as the core goes through these cycles, so you look at the cross section of the earth,

there's the inner core that's solid. The outer core is molten. Then the mantel is about 1,800 miles thick, and it's magma. And then the crust is only about 36 miles. thick. So, in the textbooks, the inner core always looks like it's floating right in the middle of the earth, but that's not what's happening. When it goes, when those particles are hitting it and heating it up, it actually bumps up against the outer core, causing ripples, perturbations, is what they're called, against the mantle. And the mantle begins to seep

into the crust, and it's the mantle that is heating the oceans from underneath because of that. Happens about every, well, about every 12,500 years. And that number, if you talk to Randall, we just did a conference in Boulder. He was in the conference that we did up there, and that has to do with the younger dryas. I think you've had guests talking about, so the last, the younger dryest was the last time that this happened. It happened 12,500 years before that, 12,500 years before that. I've got the chart. You can see it's like clockwork.

I'm looking at that NASA thing, and it said, I went to the website, it says that it's rising because the ocean is absorbing the gases, causing the water to rise over time. The ocean is, that's the equilibrium. It's outgassing, and it's also, there's an equilibrium between what we're creating in the And we are creating the atmosphere. You have to be honest about it. We're creating carbon dioxide. And the ocean is what's called the sink.

It's the CO2 sink. That is heating, that's soaking that up. So what's happening, Joe, is the mantle is being disturbed. It is heating the oceans from underneath, releasing the carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. And that's where that's coming from. When we look into the geologic history, we've seen this happen before. and it's intense, it's brief, and it's what comes after that usually is a problem. It's not the warming, it's the fueling.

Jay, can you put that quote back up, please? This was what was interesting. Underneath it, it said, covering more than 70% of the Earth's surface, our global ocean has a very high heat capacity. It has absorbed 90% of the warming that has occurred in recent decades due to increasing greenhouse gases. So this is acknowledging, though, that there has been an increase in the temperature because of our civilization, because of greenhouse gases. There's an increase in CO2. But it's saying an increase in warming. In warming?

Has occurred because of increasing greenhouse gases. So what you're saying is these greenhouse gases, we're contributing to it, but it's not the primary factor. It's not the primary. And the modeling is the problem. Jamie, would you please? So can I go, but before we going to further, if we didn't exist at all, if there was no industrial civilization, we existed like hunter-gatherers, would we have no impact? Would it be the exact same thing, or would it be a fraction of a degree warmer because of human society? I think we have to be honest.

I don't have the numbers on this. I think we have to just be honest and say we are contributing to some degree. So we have to be contributing. But you feel like it's a minor degree. and even if we were hunter-gatherers, the same pattern of earth warming would still be going on right now. All we need to do is go back.

There's an orange chart on there, Jamie, and you look at the Jurassic Pleistocene. We weren't right there. Is this there right here? Yeah. And you can see the black, I think, is the black the CO2? Yes, it says atmospheric CO2

and the blue is global temperature. How high it's been. And look at the temperatures times when it's high. Look in the orange over here when the CO2 is hard, temperatures are... What's up, Jamie? The 500 million years ago. I know, nuts, right?

Yeah, so we weren't there, and this is what you can see from... Say it again, Jim? We don't have, like, a lot of data from back then, do we? What was going on? Data comes from different sources. You've got ice cores, and then... I know, I just thought, I mean, just... Yeah.

How are they getting data from 500 million years ago? You get it from seafloor settlements. Jeez. Is one of the things you can do. There's a little sea creature called the Globidurina. Are those tests getting better as we get? Like, more recently? end up now, I guess.

So, we can go into this as deep as you want. What I want you to see here is there's not a direct correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past. We can say that. And we can also see that CO2 levels have been higher in the past than they are now. And Earth was lush. It was green. Life was flourishing.

As Randall Carson always says, global cooling is what's really terrifying. All right, now here's, now I'm going to tie it back in to what we began this conversation with. There's a concerted effort to remake the world and to remake our bodies. If, I did a little experiment in January of last year, and I said, okay, what if we met all of the climate goals, what would Earth look like? Now, I'm not going to push back against them. I just take it. Right, let's just say what would, if you just zero carbon. We're only at 240 parts per million right now, which historically is low.

We're on the low end right now. If we were to meet those goals, they want us to go back to, we would meet the goals. It would push it back to about 136 parts per million, is what they're looking at. A 180 parts per million is dangerously low. So there, and this isn't something like you can just take a dial and, and just, just a little bit here and there. They are pushing, if we were to meet those goals, Earth would have, by the way, they're also pushing for global cooling of 10 degrees, global average. We're at 56 Fahrenheit global average right now. They want 46 degrees. The last time on Earth

we had those kinds of temperatures and that kind of CO2 was the Pleistocene era. It was not good for us. It's not good for life. It's not good for humans. Who are they? They are. Why would they want to do such a self-destructive thing? Do they know this? Do they know this data? Well, let's break it down. Joe, let's just let's step through this. Okay, let's step through this. Climate. Yes. If we were to meet those climate goals, it's not good for us. All right. Let's put that as a human species. As a human species. Put that over here. Okay. We're being pushed for war. And I think you can see that. And the nations of the earth that have the capability for war are waging that war, and what's happening is we're depleting our resources as nations. We are,

and I just did a search on this the other night, the superpowers are dangerously low on weapons and on the ability humans to fight in those wars. If Earth ever needed to fight, we don't have what we need right now. So our weapons are being depleted. Okay, let's put that over here. Now there's a concerted effort to break the social bonds that have held us together as societies, as nations, as communities, and that is working very successfully. We're breaking down those borders. That's not good for us. That's not good for anyone. Now you look at the transhuman movement to replace us with technology, with machines, to debilitate our ability for critical thinking,

our ability for imagination, for creativity, for all the reasons that we just talked about, use it or lose it. When we give our power away to that technology, we're not the best version of ourselves. That's not good for us. None of those are good for us. So if I said that to you,

what would you say to me? Who would that be good for? If it's not good for us, who's it good for? Satan. Well, now is where you go back and you look at all those ancient texts. You look at the, and depending on what language you're using,

if you're looking at Sumerian texts, this world was never ours to begin with, is what those texts say. And there is a good argument that can be made that Earth is being modified in ways that are not necessarily good for us. Who are they good for? That there's a whole conversation that we can have, you know, around that. So you think climate is a part of this whole agenda of control?

I do. Yeah. Well, that's what seems like it. And it's not just my opinion. I think the evidence supports that because why would we want to push this planet back? I mean, NASA says we're greener now than we have been in 20 years. why would we want to push this planet back to the environment of the Pleistocene era? Well, we want to have control over things all the time, and when you see certain areas that become too hot for a certain kind of agriculture, things change, or certain lakes dry up, there's things like that that happen that people freak out about because we want control.

That's why we want to bring animals back from extinction. We want control over everything around us because it makes us feel better. But the problem with this one is you're getting people that are saying we're going to lower the earth's temperature. Like you didn't, we didn't vote on that. Like, just because it's your idea and you people are moving in this direction, you have so much money, you're making a decision for literally 8 billion people. These are unelected officials. It's nuts.

It's nuts that they think they could spray things in the sky to reflect particles, reflective particles, to dull out the sun and lower the temperature of the earth. Like, that's an insane notion. And especially if we're moving in the cooler anyway. But all of this, I mean, so now we've identified these things. I think it's useless to be angry. I think what we do is we recognize, Joe, that all of these applications of technology are a reflection of the way we've been conditioned to think about ourselves. When we wake up to become the best version of ourselves, then we recognize it makes sense to go clean and green.

makes sense to grow our food differently. It makes sense to have different kinds of energy because we recognize our relationship to ourselves in the world around this. Right. Not because we're being manipulated. Exactly. Exactly. So it could be done the right way. Like the real issue that we have as a society, one of the, not the, but war is obviously the, but one of the big ones is pollution. Like that is undeniable. When you see like what's going on in India with some of those rivers where it's just the entire river is just choked up with plastic I've been there I've been there I've seen that that is insane that as a human race that we allow that that's insane like but then you look at places like is it Singapore jamie

that we watched that video where it was fascinating there I believe it's Singapore um where they have like the most sophisticated recycling program like unbelievably unbelievably efficient. And they take that stuff and use it to pave the roads. They burn things down specific materials. They have, I mean, it's an insane job they do of taking the garbage. So we know it's possible. It is possible. So everything we're talking about is a consequence of what happens when we give our humanness away. And we believe that we are a flawed species and that we need something outside of ourselves to be the best version of ourselves or that we believe we're powerless so we say to someone else fix it and make it better right now right now and the

AI is driving this conversation we are at the point we are are being asked by the conditions of the world to accept the deep truth of what it means to be human and in that humanist when we accept our ability that there's a part of us that doesn't live in here, what that means is the more that we can honor the antenna, the gift of the body to access that. We become healthy. We become the best version of ourselves. We begin to live differently.

We begin to eat differently. We begin to recycle differently. We use energy differently because we're living in the world a reflection of the new honor and respect that we have for the gift of our bodies. And nobody's telling our young kids anything like that. this. No. We have to protect our children.

It would help everybody. Just to think that way. It would help everybody. No matter what you're trying to do with life. Well, this is, but the AI right now is the tip of the spirit. This is what they're using. They, again, the powers that be, because we're so close, Joe, for the first time in the very long time, on a mass level to awakening to what it means to be human.

human. There are pockets that are coming together. And we're saying no, no to war. We're saying, I think in this generation, I think you will see us walk away from the use of war to solve our problems. What happens if they throw a war? Nobody goes. I think you're going to see that happen because people are saying this isn't right. This isn't right. Well, that's a very powerful message. And I hope you're right. But if there was one thing that I feel like most people would bet on is that there's always going to be war. It's a shame. Not the way we're seeing it.

Not the way we're seeing it right now. Not the way. This ties in to the disclosure conversation. Because when you talk to the people behind the scenes in disclosure, we obviously, I don't think anybody would have a problem with a flying saucer in an Air Force hangar somewhere. We've seen it in movies where, you know, I don't think anybody's surprised. I don't think anybody's got a problem with a gray. alien, you know, in an Air Force conference room somewhere. But the implications, if we've had

this relationship for so long, we know they didn't get here on a Chevy V8 engine. I mean, they've got some pretty high-tech. Right. And what the part of the implications are that we are being asked to step up to become a different species to to meet the intelligence that is being offered to us. And there are different forms of that intelligence. Some of that intelligence is prone to war, and that's not the ones that we want to necessarily... That's hard to believe, that they get so far,

they could travel from other places in the universe, yet they still have war. That's the disappointing thing for me. And so this is where we go back to the ancient text. They begin with a war in the heavens or with the Bible calls, you know, the fall. And the war is what destroyed a planet in our solar system. I think Randall's probably talked about that. Well, that's the kooky theory about Mars, too, right?

Mars used to have an atmosphere. It doesn't anymore. And they believe that there is a compelling argument that could be made for war destroying. I think when we get there and we see the. archaeological remnants that are there, I think we'll have the answer to that. But that is scary. Isn't it, Joe, that you have be so advanced and still have the, still allow differences to be so great that the only way to solve them is, is to hurt one another and destroy one another. But also makes for great science fiction movies. Because without the

war in space, you have no Star Trek. You know, you have no Star Wars. Well, maybe this is where we break that cycle. Maybe we wake up our humanness and we accept the power of human divinity and we accept what it means and we imbue our children with a deep sense of, in a healthy sense, that there's something very special about them worth preserving so that they care about themselves. And then that begins to inform the way we live in the world. We would be living in a very, very different world. I think you're right. And I think you saying that is very important because it gets that word out there and people start to consider it and think about it. And I think that's the only way people find these things is for people like you come out and have these conversations and spark

thoughts in people's head. Like maybe I'm thinking and behaving and living the wrong way. And maybe we could just become more united and more positive and recognize this incredible gift that we have of this life. But look at what the science. See, the science. The science is so compartmentalized, and I saw this when I was working even in the industry. So a discovery is made in genetics, and it stays in that genetic box, and it gets published in some obscure. The new way of thinking is looking at humans from an IT perspective. So there are journals like the Journal of Soft Computing. I didn't even talk about that.

The Journal of Soft Computing has just come out and said that human DNA, three-dimensional human human, DNA is a fractal antenna. Now, what's that mean? An antenna tunes to a signal. A fractal antenna tunes to a vast array of signals across a broad spectrum. We got 50 trillion of them in Arbani's, and the journal is saying it, but who reads that? Who's reading the Journal of Soft Computing? Thank God you are.

Who has a beautiful, hardbound copy of the Journal of Soft Computing next their bed like I do? Well, the fact that you know it, you just told people, now people know. Yeah. So it's a very different way of thinking. But if we can begin seeing ourselves and really, I think the greatest task that we're cherished, that we're tasked with right now is to cherish an honor and care for the gift of the human body. Because I believe it is a gift because there was an intervention that created the mutations that give us what we have today. We don't know who or what, but we're not the product of natural. evolution. And until we understand fully what that is, Joe, why would we want to give that away to technology before we even know what it means to be human? And once we give it away, we can never go back. This is how you lose a species. And I think we're worth preserving. And that's

my message. I'm advocating for our humanness, for our divinity, for our love, because that's what sets us apart from all our forms of life. And I think we're worth preserving. I agree. with you 100%. And I appreciate you very much. And thank you very much for coming on here. It was a lot of fun. Hey, let's do it again. Are you saying we're finished? Yeah, we're done. We are almost three hours. Oh, wow. Okay. Crazy. All right, Joe. Well, thank you very. But I really enjoyed it. Thank you. You know, thank you are just an amazing listener. And I appreciate the long format and the opportunity to flesh out these ideas in their entirety. So thank you for that. Well, it's my pleasure. Thank you for being interesting so I could just listen. But it's, you know, I only have people on the podcast that I'm interested in. So, uh, when I saw a lot of your stuff online, I'm like, this guy's fascinating.

Oh, thank you. And it was great. I really enjoyed it. Thank you very much. Thank you. We'll do it again. Thank you. We'll do it again. We'll do it again. Bye.