The Joe Rogan Experience - #2390 - Jack Carr

Episode Date: October 8, 2025

Jack Carr is a bestselling author, retired Navy SEAL, and host of several podcasts, including “Danger Close." His newest book, "Cry Havoc,” is available now.www.officialjackcarr.com https://www.youtube.com/@JackCarrUSA https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Cry-Havoc/Jack-Carr/9781668095256 Visible. Live in the know. Join today at https://www.visible.com/rogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. All right, bro. My man, what's up? Good to see you, my brother. Great to see you. Always great to see you.

I've been so looking forward to this. I'm going to 1,000 miles an hour for, it seems like. Me too, man. And I've been really looking forward to talking you about this book, because I know that you've been obsessed. You've been obsessed by this era in human history. and tell us about it. Yeah, yeah. So this is 1968 Vietnam

and I just launched the book tour not last night but the night before because last night it was comedy mothership, Kill Tony, which was amazing. The best show in the world. It was so crazy. Do they vet any of those people, by the way, before they come up?

Yeah, didn't look like it. Insane people, brilliant people, great comics, terrible comics. That was fantastic. That's the best show ever. That was fantastic. But, yeah, I kicked off the book tour with David Morell,

who created Rambo back in 1972 with First Blood. So that was a huge honor for me. He's been an inspiration to me in my whole life. and I wrote a series of books in the 80s, Brotherhood of the Rose, Fraternity of the Stone, League of Night and Fog, which were just incredible, and got to kick off the book tour with him out there. Signed a baby for the first time. I've never signed a baby. Someone brought a baby through and asked me to sign their kid.

I was like, uh, it does. And then I realized they just wanted me to sign the shirt on the baby, which was a little better than the actual skin of the baby. So I'd be worried they would tattoo the baby. That was, uh, two new tattoos came through. So I saw two new very large tattoos of cross tomahawks. Yeah. That's crazy. I mean, you've been had that for a while.

You've had people doing that for a while for you. But I remember the first time I got one. I think it was after, I think it was after that was on, right around the same time. And the first time I was on, so, like, 2020, the first time I saw it. And I texted you and sent it. And it was like, someone tattooed the cross tomahawks on themselves. And, you know, I'd say, you know, you've had that with you for a while. And if it was weird, the first time, some, you see it.

Like, now it must be kind of normal because a lot of people have tattoos of you. It's not normal. It's not normal. You know, it's weird. It's very weird. They'll probably grow to regret them. Never. That doesn't happen with tattoos, does it?

No. Not mine. I don't regret mine. I like mine. It's a life story. It's a life story. Yeah. It's awesome.

It depends on what you got. Yeah. And timing. And maybe if you got someone's name on there that's no longer a part of your life. Yeah. Maybe the wife wants you to get that removed. Perhaps. Turned to a snake.

I've heard that. Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, the book, 1968, Vietnam. And I thought this was going to be the book that was going to take me the least amount of time because I thought I had this foundation. of knowledge when it comes to warfare, Vietnam in particular, those lessons. I've had the influence of popular culture when it comes to the 60s and Vietnam as well growing up. So I thought I was well prepared to dive into this world. And I didn't want to just say that they're listening

to Creedon's Clearwater Revival and that it's 1968 and then essentially drop a contemporary thriller into the 60s, into Vietnam, 1968. Instead, I wanted someone who lived through that era to know that I put in the effort and any sentence had to be written through the lens of 1968 without the benefit of 50 plus years of hindsight. So if someone is 70 years old, 50 years old, 20 years old, they only have their life experience up to that point to make a decision for perspective on an event. And that took a lot more time than I thought.

I got a dictionary from 1969. I couldn't find the one from 1968 I wanted, so I got a dictionary from 1969 to look at how terms were defined back then, a lot of maps from the era. And it was just a, it took a lot longer, which is why we're here in October. and not in June when the book was supposed to come out.

Oh, wow. So what, so when you get a dictionary from 1968, what is the difference? Well, that's what I wanted to find out. Is there a lot of difference? I'm sure there is, but I was looking at just some specific terms that I can't remember what they are right now. And you just wanted to look them up through that book. I didn't want to look up. Yeah, I didn't want to Google something today. I would be doing this research as if I was in the 60s.

And so if I needed to look something up, whether it was spelling or whatever else, I wanted to use that instead of like asking Google machine. So I just wanted to transport myself back in time. And, yeah, that was quite the endeavor. I didn't expect at the outset. I feel like this, that war in particular is, it's like World War II was what we think America is. Vietnam is what America really is. That is a very perceptive insight. So World War II, we were fighting evil.

We were stopping the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich. World War II is just. Vietnam was fucking nonsense. And it's still, to this day, it infuriates people that participated in it. It infuriates people who lost family members. It didn't make any sense. It was birthed on a lie. It was a complete false flag event that our own government,

Yeah. They lied to us and told us that the Gulf of Tonkin, there was an incident where one of our battleships was attacked, and it wasn't. It was all a lie, and it was just to get us into this fucking war. And there's a whole bunch of people that made a whole bunch of money, and a bunch of people died, and at the end of it, everybody felt broken, and during it, there was a gigantic cultural revolution in the middle of it. That's the real America.

Yeah, you know, it's something that I explore in the book, and the benefit of hindsight, it's certainly more, it's more, not relevant, but you can draw that out for sure, the benefit of hindsight. And I'm trying to write this thing in 1968 from these guys. So they're having these conversations with only that information. So they don't yet know who's making a ton of money. They're not yet knowing about bell helicopters and all the rest of this stuff. They don't really know yet about Gulf of Tonkin. They just know that 1968 is the bloodiest year thus far of the war. And it's going to be the bloodiest year of the war so far, which is why I said it in that year. How many people died that year? Well, over 58,000 in total.

And I forget exactly how many for that particular year. But we lost more people that year and had more people wounded than any other year of the war. But over 58,000 people died in Vietnam on our side, to say nothing of the Vietnamese. And NBA, Viet Cong, civilians, you know, all put together. but certainly a lot more than 58,000 and over what yeah looking back so I'm trying to look at it through the lens of the day and when you look at that the domino there we look back and say of course the rest of the world wouldn't have fallen to communism but at the time I tried to put myself into the shoes of the people making these decisions and they're at least for Southeast Asia there was they the threat of other countries falling even if they did would that have meant anything long term for the rest of us today it's it's hard to to say that it would have. But I mean, the whole thing is so heartbreaking. And you're right, when we got back from World War II, those guys had parades. They got back to work. They used the GI Bill. They built this country into what it is today. Vietnam, those guys who looked at

like they went bankrupt. It was like a company going bankrupt. And not only that. When they came back, they were called baby killers. They were met at the airport by protesters. They had all that to deal with, all of that baggage to deal with. And that left a scar and entire generation. It really You know, a lot of that started with the Kennedy assassination in 1963, and then we move on into the war, and this becomes the first televised war. So there were photographs of the Civil War. There's photographs World War I, World War II. We're getting the newsreels when you go to the movies on Saturday and see the matinee, and you're getting those. But that's a very different type of way to get your news, because you're seeing it once a week, or you're seeing a still photograph in a paper, then we get to Vietnam, and now you're seeing it every day on the news.

You're seeing Walter Cronkite there, give you that news, and you're watching these guys. in foxholes and you're seeing this shooting and you're seeing this chaos. And then also the media, I think this is the first time where the media realizes they have, they're not just a pillar as a check on government. They realize at this point that they actually have power to influence events and policy. So how they report from Vietnam, very different from how reporters, even in Korea, but let's get World War II, very different from how reporters reported on that war. And now I think in Vietnam, you have these guys in Saigon and they realize and they're staying at these amazing hotels and they're partying it up at night and some of them are going to the outskirts

of town so it looks like they're out in the rice patties or whatever and then they're going back to their hotel for for drinks but they realize during this time that they can influence policy and so that's what we see with the ted offensive we see that as a complete is a complete tactical win for the united states but it becomes a loss for us a huge strategic loss for us because of the way that it's reported and the uh the media is involved in that so so what was the issue the media distorted what was going on? Yeah, the media distorted what was what was going on and talked about this huge victory for the NVA

and for North Vietnam. And it wasn't really, but it was when they reported it that way. And then we see more of America turning against this war and policy shifts and more people shipped into Vietnam. So it's a, I mean, the whole thing is so sad. And I try to humanize it and personalize it in this book because you can read about, I think it's the importance of reading fiction also because you're, you can, you get a compassion there and an empathy for people because you're living something through their eyes, even though it's fiction that you don't get really through, through nonfiction. You can read about all these numbers. You can read about 58,000. But when you read a story like this, then you're getting to know these characters and you're going through this thing with them. And that then becomes a part of your experience. So even, say, let's say, buds going through, going through seal training. Yeah, I'm thinking back. to Normandy and I'm thinking back to Iwo Jima I'm thinking back to Vietnam and what

these guys had to go through and then I'm realizing I can do a few more push-ups in the sand here in Cornado California all those guys died and sacrificed so much so that I could be here but some of that comes through the works of fiction too the thrillers that I was reading growing up from guys who had backgrounds in Vietnam or just from things they're dealing with in contemporary thrillers of the day but that became part of my experience and I didn't have to and it's almost like you're living it even though it's all made up so that's the important of important of reading in general and the beacon of reading when we go when we look at 2003 to 2025 and the drop off in

reading that has occurred that is scary is you think that's because of the internet oh yeah i mean it's quite uh it corresponds almost directly with the rise of the smartphone and uh and of course it continues to drop today so i think i'm getting into publishing and Hollywood and probably one of the worst times in the last hundred years that one could decide to do something like this with AI and all and all the rest of it it's uh and less people reading and less people There's no backside. There's no box office for movies anymore. No, the worst time to get into it is tomorrow. Yeah, good point.

It's way better that you already have the Terminalist and the Dark Wolf on TV. Right, right. Yeah, you're way better off. Trying today, they'd be like, we have no use for scripts. We wrote our own, we wrote a hundred scripts in the time it took you to walk up the stairs. Oh, man, I know. We put in prompts. I want a Vietnam thriller involving a handsome football player who tries to go do the best for his kind of that realize like Pat Tillman style gets disillusioned when he gets there.

Yeah. I mean, it's a thing. I think CAA, my talent agency, just sent me a thing the other day and said that one of these open AI deals, they, I think it was a $1.5 billion settlement or something and that they'd use my books, and I'm sure they've used this podcast, I'm sure they've used all sorts of things. But the settlement out of that for me is possibly $1,000. Congratulations. And I thought, well, my attorney's going to be...

Is my attorney only going to take an hour to do this because that's about... That's about, makes it a, you know, a net, exactly. So, but then do you not do it because then they just hold them? I don't know. It's crazy. Take the thousand. But they have to pay like $6,000 to get the $1,000. Do you really?

I would think. Oh, that's hilarious. I'm sure they're going to spend like six hours. You can't just give it to you? I don't think so. I mean, if I even ask the question, the thousand's gone, you know? Cut me a check, bitch. I don't think it works that way.

Oh, no. So I don't even know. But the AI part is interesting. I was talking to, so I was in Morocco filming, true believer, just to, a couple weeks ago. So we finished up filming out there with Pratt and everybody. It was amazing. And from Morocco, you fly through France on the way home. So I stopped in Paris for a few days. I met my wife out there. I met some other friends out there. I went to a bunch of dinners and things like that. But one of them's a guy named Rick Rosenfield. He started California Pizza Kitchen back in 1985.

And they were going to put one in one of the wind hotels in Vegas. And we were talking about AI and that's how this plays in here. And he said, he told me the story and I'll get, this is the general gist. It might be not the exact detail, but the general gist is right. They're going to put one into one of the Wynn casinos. And so he goes in there with Steve Wynne, Jennings is with them. So they're all, these three guys, Steve Wyn, Rick Rosenfield, and Whalen Jennings. And they go in and Steve Wynne says, hey, Whelan, we have this cover band. We have this guy that does just your cover tunes. He's a huge fan of yours.

And I'd appreciate it if you said hi to him. And Wailen Jennings is like, yeah, no problem. So the cover band guy is like Jalen Wennings or something. Let's call him that. I don't know what his real name is. But sits down and they're having drinks. And the guy's like, I love. I love all your stuff.

Thank you so much. I hope it's okay that I'm doing these cover bands, but I just idolize you. And Waylon Jennings is sitting there. He goes, oh, yeah, no problem. Only there is one problem, though, with what you're doing. And the guy's like, what, what? And he said, you're always one album behind.

And I was like, oh. And this guy told me this story in the context of AI and someone using my books to write another book that has a similar tone. Or write this in the style of Jack Carr with some prompts. And I was saying that I was a little concerned about this and just don't know what's going to happen in the future. And he told me that story

And so I'm like, oh, that's fantastic They're always going to be a book behind Yeah, but AI is not a cover band AI's a lot smarter than us That's the problem The problem is You know, I don't know if you're paying attention To what it's been doing with music

But like so Jamie, show them some of the interviews Some of the interviews that you made I showed them up there Yeah, yeah those are crazy This is crazy So people, Muhammad Ali Yeah, on the podcast Yeah, Michael Jackson

Yeah, Michael Jackson on the podcast And it's not difficult for it to do stuff like that. And so we're not talking about a cover band. We're talking about someone that can do something or something that can accomplish a task that human beings can't. Man, now I'm bummed out again. I was all positive a second ago.

Play that. This is so crazy. You've got to act like it every day. That means working with nobody watching, staying humble, but never doubting yourself. You still carry that mindset now? Always in me forever. You don't stop being a champion just because the bell ain't right.

When you sit down like this with a moment, microphone you can't hide anything your breathing your hesitation even your heartbeat comes true if you try to be some that's incredible you grow up with nothing man you learn quickly you can trust every smile every handshake you weigh that's terrible they might they might figure that one out that helps them that's terrible that's someone else is what you never notice how life sneak up on you like a bill you forgot your head one day you're cool next that's terrible too responsibility on my porch stop that but there are some that are good stop that that's not richard's voice

You think the whole world is waiting for you to show up, and then you find out the world was busy already. The trick is figuring out how to join in without losing you. I would say hearing it through these headphones now. You can hear that weird tinge. Like, that's supposed to be Lee Harvey Oswald. It doesn't really look like him. A little bit, like a really young Lee Harvey Oswald.

Anyway, we're fucked. That's crazy. We're fucked. Bottom line is. And music is really fucked. Like, we were playing this 50-cent cover. They did the song Many Men, but they did it with like a soul singer

from like the 1950s or the 1960s it's incredible it's so good it's like one of my favorite songs it's not even a real person that's insane it's not even a real person

and it's so good we were all in the green room the other night we're like if this guy was a real dude he would be the biggest star in the world right now because everybody would want to hear him sing I mean Millie Vanilli

just did it a little too early well Millie Vanilli just lip synced you know this is a totally different experience this is like they're gonna create stuff with your voice better than anything you can do. Oh, it's so brutal. But for the kids, at least we're aware of it. So we can choose. Maybe we can choose. It's going to be hard

to, like some of these things, it's going to be hard to figure out at some point, but I almost think there needs to be, remember the parental advisories in the 80s, they put on CDs and stuff like that back then? Like, at least you know. Like, if I want to go and I want to buy this piece of art right here, and I walk into that store, and I love this thing. And I put it in my house, and it's there for 10 years, and I show everybody that comes in. But what if that thing is,

I don't know that no one actually made that. That was just the AI made that. and I find out 10 years later Is that different? Is that a different experience now for me? Do I feel cheated? I don't know. You should feel cheated.

Yeah. But if you buy it, there has to be a little thing on it. I don't know that tells you. Then you're aware. Well, part of what art is, is someone made it. You know, that's what makes it kind of cool.

Yeah. If it was made by a computer, it doesn't seem, it doesn't have a piece of a person in it, you know? Are people going to care like our kids? Are they going to care? I don't know, because I don't care about that song, so I don't know what to say.

I don't want to be a hypocrite, But it's inevitable. It's happening. You know, you're going to have to deal with it and adapt. And I think what it means to be a person is going to change. That's so brutal. Yeah. I don't think it's possible to avoid change.

And this is the direction that change is going. And so at your essence, like, what are you and who are you? You have to search for that in different ways. And you're probably not going to be able to search for it the same way through music and books. If you find out that these music and books weren't actually written by the like-minded people or is it that the the lessons and the the energy say the energy of the music and the lessons of the books it is from people because what a i. is done is they've absorbed all of the art that everyone has ever created ever in terms of literature and music and even

comedy and whatever and it's combined it together in a style that that's you're It's completely variable. You can have it like Amy Winehouse. You can make it sound like Biggie Smalls. You can make it sound like anything. But it is all, it's imitating everything that humans have created and will still affect humans. And maybe inspire us more and maybe put a premium on something that's created by an actual human and not by AI. Maybe it'll become more valuable.

Hope so. Yeah. Hope so. Put the books on like, hey, this is made. by an actual human, no AI was used. I haven't used it yet. I haven't used chat GPT or anything like that. I can barely update my word.

That's what I want to do. Like keep my word updated. That's the main thing. But I know a lot of people that are using it and love it. And I have a relationship with this thing. Yeah, I use perplexity for questions on the show now. It's a sponsor. And so like every time we have questions, look, it's a valuable resource.

I feel like, especially for someone who does something like this, it's crazy to not use something like that. I don't think it's, everyone thinks that change is bad. Everyone's scared of change. They were scared of the printing press. I mean, people have been scared of the wheel. They were scared of the locomotive. People were scared of everything. I'm not scared of it. I'm scared that it could potentially fuck up society, but I feel like that's just what's going to happen. You know, it's just we go through cycles. Go to Rome. Go look around. What happened? Where did everybody go? You know, there's still people living here, but that society that built that, that fell apart. Same thing with Athens. Same thing. with many, many, many places in the world. Societies crumble. There's a cycle. We were not immune to that cycle because we're aware of it.

They're aware of it too. They were all aware of crumbling civilizations and once great civilizations that had fallen. This episode is brought to you by Visible. You know that one friend who's always the first to know about everything. They've got a dozen tabs open constantly on their phone and in their head. To be that friend, you need wireless that can keep up. Visible is the ultimate wireless hack that lets you live in the know so you can follow a rabbit hole as long as you want. Get one-line wireless with unlimited data, talk, and text for $25 a month, taxes and fees included.

Plus, visible runs on Verizon's 5G network so you get great coverage and a reliable connection without the premium cost. Ready for wireless that lets you live in the know? make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for planned features and network management details. I think if you learn to think for yourself, you think logically. If you read kids today, if they put that down that phone and just read, that is a superpower. They will get out there and crush.

Read, work out, do some MMA, BJJ stuff, do a little boxing. But read, you are going to just leave everyone else in the dust when it comes to whatever you want to do next in life, out of high school, at a college, whatever it is. If you have that foundation, then you're one, you're going to be a more empathetic and passionate person, but you're going to have this knowledge base that other people are relying on chat GPT, whatever it is, their phone, whatever, to do that thinking for them. Yeah, it's amazing how many people just don't consume any nonfiction or fiction. They don't consume anything but like TikTok and Netflix. Yes, it is absolutely brutal. It's kind of nuts. Like I said about

the time to enter publishing. I think a great time is the 90s for that because you had, let's see, Michael Crichton, and then you had John Grisham. Like every other year there was some Michael Crichton movie and then a John Grisham movie and they had the best directors, actors of the day, producers of the day, and then people bought books

they were still reading back then because there wasn't yet the internet, there wasn't yet all these other things that distract you. So those guys got to crush. That was like, I think that was maybe the golden age of being an author and adapting your stuff to film or television, mostly film back then. But those guys got to crush.

And today, not as much. But it's fun, though. It's still fun to create. Still fun to do all this. Still fun to be in Morocco doing this stuff. There's guys like you that are still doing it. You know, it's still doable. Yep.

Still doable, that's for sure. But the payday's not the same. You did the right way, though. You know, you did it on Amazon. They gave you a lot of creative freedom. You got great people to work with. That's the right way. I mean, I'm a big fan of the Grey Man series.

I think he does, he's a great writer. But his stuff is so much more violent and gritty than what was portrayed in the film. Yeah. The film glossed it up and, you know, and made it a little pretty. Right. That's what happens for the most part. It's like Carl Isson. Did you see a bad monkey with Vince Vaughan?

No. So it's on Apple. What is it? He's a cop that's kind of down on his luck and he's on suspension or whatever. And he lives in the Keys, so it has that whole Keys vibe and they film it down there. And so you recognize, if you've been there, you recognize all these places. But Carl Housen is the author, and he has this, he's very unique style. But what he says about Hollywood is he drives to the border of California.

He throws his book over the border. They throw a bunch of money back at him and he drives back to Florida. And whatever happens happens, you know. So it's one way to look at it. But most authors aren't involved in whatever happens. They like to get rid of that author right away so you're not unset saying, you ruined my vision. Yeah, I get that. I get that.

but it seems like what you're doing is better because you're involved in it and then it reaches your vision or as close as you're gonna get. You help add value. Yeah, you want to make it the best show you possibly can. Yeah, when I saw the terminal list,

I was like, this is about as close as you can get and do a TV show and not have it rated, you know, NC-17, like super hyper-graphic. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it's way harder to do that in a movie.

To take a book. Because you only have an hour and a half two hours. Yeah, your books take hours to read. Yeah. And we have seven hours for Dark Wolf, eight hours for the Terminalist. We'll have eight hours for a true believer. That's the way to do it. Yeah. And that one, that is the hunting stuff in it. So once again, now I think we'd, like, for some reason, if we'd started with that or if I'd started with that as a book, that it would have been

much more difficult because Amazon would have been much more hesitant. But since we had a success with the Terminalist, now they're taking this risk with us. Just like my publisher did. It would been very easy as a publisher to say, hey, just do what you did in that first book. That was successful. So just take that same kind of stuff and just drop it maybe internationally or something like that. Instead, I had this whole journey across in the book, it's the Atlantic and the show it's going to be the Pacific. But going across this, this journey of violent redemption, he still thinks he's going to die, gets to Mozambique, still thinks he's going to die, doesn't die yet. And so, because he has his tumor and then uses the skills from Iraq and Afghanistan to help

with the poaching problem over there. And then the book really, the actual story kicks off from there. But I thought it was going to be, would be disingenuous to the reader to have this character that went through all the things that he went through in the terminal list, all those traumatic stuff, losing his family, losing his whole troop in Afghanistan, and then all of a sudden he's okay and just out to save the world in the next book. And so I had to take him on this journey. And I kind of thought that my editor and publisher would say, hey, cut out the first third of this book and we got something here. Instead, they didn't say any of that. And they took this risk with me. And it really differentiated that book and me as an author. And now Amazon's doing the same thing. So we have Chris Pratt going across the ocean. He's got this crazy long hair. He lost a ton of weight for this thing. He's like battling the storms and his demons. And then gets to Mozambique, and same thing. Goes through this second episode where he's out there doing this poacher thing, using his skills out there. And we filmed in Africa. So we got these amazing, just the landscapes, beautiful. It's probably one of the most beautiful visions of Africa that I've ever seen on film.

It's just incredible. And Chris Pratt, Chris is totally into it, of course, and the guy who got to play Rich Hastings. I don't know if we can say his name yet, but he's awesome. He is so good. And so he's kind of like the older guy kind of mentoring James Rieselong, Chris Pratt. And he's a guy's guy. Like he, I'll say his name, Arnold Voslou. And so he's the bad guy from Blood Diamond and the mummy.

And he's such an awesome guy. And he's a guy's, like, one of us. And so you didn't need to tell him like what to do with the rifle. Like he knew. He knew what to do with that double rifle. He's not messing around. Yeah. So it was so fun to do that.

But that is a risk that Amazon's taking is to do those first two episodes to invest all this money in this thing where, yeah, it has something to do with the development of the character, but not really to do with the rest of the time. of the story in him than safe in the world. But they went along with it. And that's because they saw the numbers from the first, from the first season. And they'll never share those numbers with us, but we know what they are because there have been like almost no notes in this one.

Like the first one, there was notes constantly. Like they didn't want Chris to get somebody. They were very, they didn't want that to happen. And then we did it anyway. And they ended up being on every billboard in L.A. for the opening month. Of course. All that. They didn't want the secretary of defense to die.

So there was all sorts of things that they were very nervous about, but they ended up going with us. trusting us but now we didn't have to fight for it in the second season or in dark wolf because we have that trust yeah that's that's pretty cool that is nice that's that's the beautiful thing about a successful series yeah yeah gives you more gives you more freedom don't fuck it up yeah exactly instead of like we got to make it better because it's not a hit it's don't fuck it out exactly exactly you had taylor and taylor was here so awesome so what a great guy such a good dude exactly he's so cool so so different than like that character

that he plays in american primeval is so scary so good so good so good so realistic like you really believe he's a fucking savage like you really believe everything about it the way he fucks people up like what he even what he looks like he talked about how much weight he lost for that when he takes his clothes off and you see the scars all over his body like whoa yeah they went through it on that one he went through it too yeah Pete Berg was on was on here he's awesome it's like when you see that you like you believe that guy and like that guy looks like someone who would be living like that that back then.

Oh, yeah. And he got beat up on that. He went right from that into our show where he gets beat up again. And we had to do this thing in episode four where I had my cameo where I get stitched up the side and get killed. I got part of the stuntman. You get killed again? I get killed again.

I get killed in True Believer, too, and it's a good one. But are people going to see that it's you this time? You've got to give yourself a fake nose. Yeah, yeah. It's the same. It's kind of like making a little thing about the show. Like I always die somehow. Like Stephen King does?

I don't think he dies in him, though. I think they just kind of do a... He's been in a bunch of his movies. She doesn't die in his point. It's not who killed Kenny. Exactly. So this would be a little different, our twist on it, our take on it. That's awesome.

Yeah, so that's fun to do that stuff. But Taylor had to run through this cobblestone, these cobblestone streets through this tunnel. And that's the one where I get stitched up and fall over. So I get a little stuntman pay out of that. That might, uh, not quite a thousand dollars, I don't think, for taking that big fall. Bro, nobody works harder than stuntman. Seriously, those guys and girls take a friggin beating. They take a fucking beating.

They really do. It's horrible. Episode five, maybe. maybe six, there's a, there's a, with this guy and the big, big dude, and one of the girls in the show getting this, this fight in this apartment. I don't know if you saw that, that episode, but the stunt person who got thrown into this refrigerator, oh, my, it was, and there was, like, a tiny little pad in the refrigerator, and she just gets thrown into this thing. And we try to keep ever the fights realistic, so we made a very deliberate decision at the beginning of the terminalist not to do the John Wick style, because you just don't want to do John Wick style, but not as good. You know, you want to have everything authentic and realistic and then have this choreographed fight sequence that everyone, that looks visually stunning, but is not really realistic for anybody who's ever been in a fight or watched UFC or anything like that. So we wanted to make sure that these things are primal, visceral, and just physical and brutal.

But it's a smaller girl against this huge guy, so we didn't want to have the girl power thing, and all of a sudden people roll their eyes and say, you know, one punch from this guy, and she's done. So she suits him like three times Before the fight as he's rushing in on her So okay, we're gonna even this out And still some people got upset about it online They're like, how could she You know, how she, you know Best this guy in a fight, he's huge

And well, because she shot him three times And then in the fourth time in the middle of the fight And she takes a beating And the stunt lady who did this Was amazing and she took a beating too Especially when she got thrown into that fridge God, especially stunt women Yeah, yeah

That's even harder. Yeah, that was And it's hard to watch Because you're talking to him And then they go on set and do their thing. And you're like, oh, but you feel like you know them now. So you feel like you just know this person that's now getting beat up. And you're watching from that video village.

And you're like, oh, just cringing seeing this stuff. But it's good. It came out fantastic. That's why guys like Tom Cruise are so nuts. So crazy. Because he does his own stunts. So crazy. He's worth a billion dollars and he jumps off roofs.

He jumps from rooftop to rooftop and breaks his fucking ankle. Did you ever see that? Oh, yeah. Shatters his ankle and then keeps running. Yeah. Keeps running. From fallout, I think. You see the ankle shatter.

You see the ankle hit the side. And you can see him humble. See it give in. You see the ankle give in. He'll go, that ankle's fucked. And then he lands on it and just fucking hobbles off running. Yep. And save the scene.

Yep. Actually, watch it on the plane back because we did a, uh, my, I got my flight like last second. So I was in, uh, economy between two people. And so when I do that, I can't work. And so on like a 10 hour flight, uh, decided to watch the movie. So I watched fallout again just because of that because I wanted to see if I could tell. what was filmed after and what was filmed before that sequence. And it's hard to tell.

It's really hard to tell how much they filmed after he shatters his ankle and limps off because you see him kind of limp off. But then he's running again. Yeah. I know. So, yeah, that's amazing. He probably just got a cortisone shot, tape it up. And just dealt with the pain. Let's go. I don't get it. Yeah, that's amazing. He did

that one thing where he lit a parachute on fire and then had to pull a second parachute. In the last one. And it turns out that they did that scene like four or five times. Or the jumping off the cliff with the motorcycle. Yeah, what the fuck, dude. All day they did that, maybe multiple days.

I don't know, but... Oh, my God. That's incredible. It's so insane. Yeah. What kind of insurance do they have on those movies? I don't think... I think he does it probably himself.

He probably insures it himself. I don't think anybody would actually insure that. I might be wrong. It's just a guess. Like, what a nut? Yeah. What a... Maybe Scientology works.

You know what I don't know. I mean, what a fucking nut. No one's like that guy. No. I mean, there's no one that is that successful that takes those kind of risks. Yeah. And all the other actors say the same thing. They're like, no, that's what the stunt people do.

He's one, one of one, you know? He gets in motorcycle races, like he does those scenes. He does car chase scenes. It's pretty cool. I mean, it does add a level of authenticity, and you go to it for that. So you can see Tom Cruise doing his own stunts. They learn how to fly a helicopter. Yeah, fly the helicopter in that one, two, two, three of them ago.

But that was killer too? Fucking crazy. Yeah, yeah, jumping out with, was it Henry Cavill and him, jump out the back of the plane and fall out in there. But yeah, he's jumping out of those. planes and it's legitimate good for him yeah he's out of his fucking mind separated his finger joints or something in this one of course he did oh man it's fantastic let's that weird do you know how hard it is to hang i just don't hang i do it every day i do a minute and 30 seconds every day i've

decided to try this to see like what it does like for my back like because it decompresses your back and i've heard that if you just do it every day it's like a life changer yeah so i'm like okay so I'm like 10 days in now 10 days of every day minute 30 I hang at that minute and 20 I got to check the phone oh yeah fuck oh yeah I was doing the same so after I was here last time we took a picture

together and I saw it and I'm like oh oh my gosh I look horrible I'm so out of shape and it wasn't the height of my out of shapeness because we I think we did that in June by late August or no late July that was six years of not doing anything we talked about sanas you know we talked about all the last and I'm like I've got to do something just writing so

I've just been writing. It's been so many projects. And I put myself at the bottom of my priority list and focus on family and writing and then the screenwriting and all the other projects that are out there. And it's amazing. I feel very fortunate for that. But I did get way out of shape and the worst shape of my life. And it showed in that photo that we took.

I'm like, oh, look at Joe. He looks at such great shape. I'm like, so August 1st or something. I'm like, all right, I'm in. And I started doing the hang, of course. And then I have this outside workout area. It's like Rocky 4 style. And so it's right there in the mountains.

And so I'm just all in getting after it. I'm doing the sauna. We rented a place in town that had a sauna to get our kids closer to school for a year because we're kind of remote. We're kind of up there and remote. And so we wanted him to have our son to have the experience of riding his bike to school and all that stuff. So we rented a house, but it had an amazing sauna in it.

So I was doing that exact, what, 17 minutes and 30 seconds, whatever you're supposed to do, whatever I heard someone on this podcast tell me I was supposed to do, whatever you told me to do, I was doing that. And I was going outside getting like 10 minutes of sun here, 10 minutes of sun there, doing the workouts, doing the cardio stuff, doing all of it. and I got in great. It's probably one of the best shapes of my life. I was feeling so good.

I felt like I could just throw people through walls. I'm feeling so great. But I was doing everything. I was doing the sun. I was eating right. I was not eating the bread. So I did everything. And then I got to January 1st.

And I'm out there in the snow. I dug a path out to my thing in the gym. And I'm working out in my outside gym, doing the hangs, all of that in the snow. And then I was like, oh, I think I had a deadline December 1st a month ago for this book. I'm like, I've got to start writing. So I'll stop. I'll stop.

And I haven't done anything since. It was only writing, only screenwriting, everything. So I'm finding that balance. I need to find that balance. I'm not quite there yet. How many hours do you write a day? Well, as I get closer to the, as I pass these deadlines, I should say, it becomes all consuming.

And it's, especially for something like this when I'm in 1968. I mean, I really felt like I had to transport myself back to that time to write this thing. And so that was all as soon as I woke up. Bam, I'm in. And it is all day long. Until you go to sleep. Until I go to sleep. Until super late.

And then I'm up because the kids still get up at the same time. And so I'm up, so I'm maybe an hour of sleep, two hours of sleep, whatever, and then I'm up out of the cannon and it's going. So it's not healthy, not healthy. So I'm going to get on a better schedule here. Our son's going to a boarding school now. Our daughter's in college. We have our middle child with his fear of special needs, so he's still at home with us. He'll be with us forever, and he's a sweet little guy.

But that, I think, will give me a little more time to maybe find some balance with the health and the writing. Right. I need to do that at some point. But typically a lot of writers aren't very, especially the older ones. From back in the day, they're not the healthiest of individuals. The opposite. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it a bunch times in this podcast, but my favorite Stephen King books

were all when he was doing Coke. He doesn't even remember writing a couple of them, right? I know. If that was his friend, I'd get him and do Coke again. I tell my publisher that, I feel like I need to do some of that, just to get this done. I need to take a turn here. A lot of guys use Adderall. A lot of writers use Adderall.

A lot of journalists use Adderall as well. And I think also that makes them like a little more impulsive. Their work gets a little aggressive. aggressive. Yeah, interesting. You kind of see, especially journalists when they get real shitty, like, oh, you're probably on Adderall. Oh, interesting. I think it contributes to the culture of journalism in the modern era with this sort of like really shitty attack journalism that's become very prevalent. I don't think it's a small factor. I think Adderall consumption has, it plays a factor in that. I'm sure it does. I mean, it changes something. And social media, of course. It changes something. Yeah, so. Nicotine does it. Nicotine has been very. helpful for authors. Nicotine's great. Yeah. From what I understand.

Do you use cigars or do you do like pouches? What do you do? Don't do anything. Nothing? No nicotine? Nope. Coffee and coffee water, red wine, whiskey. But not too much.

Red wine, whiskey, inspiration. Yeah, but not too much. You know, just a little bit every now and again. Yeah, yeah, nothing too crazy. Just to say fuck it. Yeah, just I feel like it should be doing something like that, but not too much. I mean, I built a library and at one side of it was a bar and I never got to touch anything because at book signings people bring me a lot of a lot of whiskey.

And so I have it. my bags or I mail it from the road or whatever. And so I have this whole wall of whiskey and other stuff too. But I never get to partake in it because I'm always writing. I'm always like, I could pour something, but now I got this is my time. It's quiet. I'm not being interrupted. Go, go, go.

And it's just all on. So I haven't used any performance enhancing supplements. I need to do some like alpha brain or something probably. That helps. Something like that. Alpha brain's great. There's an alpha brain black label that's a new one that's a stronger version of alpha brain.

I think we have some. I'll give you some. We also have alpha brain gummies. Do we have any on the table? No. Nice. I probably should. I eat those things like candy.

But there's a bunch of really good neutropics that you should look into. Another one is neurogum. We have some of that stuff. I like that because it's just, it tastes good. It's gum and it gives you a little neutropic boost. But I understand why authors do that. Creatine is another great one. And creatine is really great for people with sleep deprivation.

Oh, really? Yes. I was using that. So I did some supplements when I started working out again. I stopped it when I stopped working out. But I think I was doing that, is it Thorne? Is that the one that you see on the UFC mat? Sure, yeah.

So I was doing that. Yeah, so I was using that their creatine and some just, just some vitamins. You want like a lot, though. Like people are taking five grams a day. You really want like 20 grams a day. And particularly when people are dealing with sleep deprivation. It also, for some reason, has like pretty great benefits more so even for women and sleep deprivation. There's been a bunch of different studies going, but in terms of cognitive performance after sleep deprivation.

and reaction time after sleep deprivation. Both of those things fall off. And there's a noticeable rise and improvement with creatine. Yeah, I don't think I was taking one scoop. Whatever it says on the bottle. Yeah. I was doing one scoop, whatever that. It says, I probably bet it's five grams.

I do four of those scoops. Oh, really? Okay. Well, when I get back after this and see myself in our photo today, I will get back to, I'll use four scoops. Well, it'll definitely make your muscles a little stronger and larger, but the reason when I'm doing it is not just for that. It's for the brain.

It's really good for the brain. Well, I was getting sleep during that time, too, which is why I didn't have a book on time. One of the reasons. One of, I was going back to 1968. It took a lot longer than I thought for this research. And then, two, I was getting in shape at the same time. Were you listening to, like, 1968 music back then? And, like, how are you doing it?

I did a playlist for it, put it on Spotify. So I was doing that. I was watching the Vietnam documentaries. I was reading everything I could possibly find on Vietnam from the day. These old Army Special Forces manuals that they had before they had before the guys would go over there that talked about the Montan Yard tribes they were going to be working with. For those that are watching or listening, it's like

apocalypse now, like the Montanyards, like tribes and all that stuff. So I was doing that. And then I was reading the more modern stuff, too. I was reading things from the 70s, 80s. I got National Geographic magazines from the 60s. I think there's one from the late 50s even. So I was doing everything I possibly could to transport myself back.

Listen to some history, history podcasts about JFK, about Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, things that were happening here, about the election, Nixon's elections, everything that was happening in 1968. I was just trying to immerse myself in that world. So that when I sat down to this, I didn't have to do a huge shift. And it was already had this, I was building on this foundation, whatever foundation I already had, as then I sat down in front of the computer to write, rather than watching something here,

contemporary, getting all upset about something that X is feeding me to keep me enraged. And then trying to jump back to 1968. Instead, I just transported myself back there for, it felt like months at a time. That's probably healthier anyway. I think it's much healthier, much, I think so. I think it was a much healthier way to live in general. Yeah, just live in the past, folks. That's what I try to do. Today's too fucking confusing.

It is. Just go live in the past. I mean, I'd love to go back. I know I can't, though, but I still try to go back through my vehicles, through movies, through things like that. Right. I did. I tried to get two modern vehicles. I had to turn them back in.

I know. You were telling me you got a grenadier. I did a grenadier. And I was so excited to get it. I think it was the first person in Utah to get one. They told me I was anyway, and I got this thing. I was so excited. And this is not a hit on Enos Grenadiers.

This is a hit on me and not being able to adapt to the current times. It's a great vehicle. It was fast. They let me borrow one for a few months. Yeah, yeah. If you're looking for an off-road vehicle that's like fully outfitted from the factory, you could do no better. It was awesome. I mean, I did, of course, I put every possible thing you could put on there.

So I'm like, I don't have time. I'm like, put everything on that for me. Just do the whole thing. And so they did. and it showed up. I was so excited for it. And then it started beeping at me, you know, and it was, I'm like, that's my complaint.

It beeps when you go one mile an hour, just a few miles an hour over the speed limit. Yes. I don't like that. I don't like where the speedometer is in the screen. So there's no dashboard in front of you. There's no like speedometer attack. It's not in front of you. You just see numbers to the right.

So you have to look over to the right to see how fast you're going, which is why they justify the beep. So it makes you look over to let you. You know, like, oh, look, you're going to see the beep. Oh, let me look. I don't want to look to the right at a screen ever if I don't have to. Yeah. I want to look at it only if I'm following directions, and that's it. I know.

I want my fucking speedometer right in front of me. I know. It was fast, though. You hammer that thing. It was fast. I mean, you have some faster cars than I do. It's capable. It's capable.

And it's really capable off road. Like, if you drive that thing, and it's fucking built like a tank. It is like a tank. If you look at like, and like the idea was that they copied a Land Rover defender, which they definitely did. But if you look at a Land Rover defender, shut the doors in those things. They feel like shit.

It feels like it's made of a Pepsi can. It's amazing. They're aluminum fact. Those are like agriculture vehicles. Those are not vehicles for like rugged travel. That's a G-wagon. A G-wagon is like a, that was designed for military applications.

It's a fucking stamp steel. I don't know if it's stamp steel. Whatever. There's steel heavy fucking doors. When you shut those doors like, And that's how the Grand Deer is. Grand Deer is, like, heavy. Yeah.

It's, like, thick. It's, like, a very durable vehicle. I feel like a lot of Aussies love them. Yeah. Because you can kind of just get right from the factory, and, you know, a lot of those guys like to go off road. Oh, yeah. You could get your factory setting in the back where it's got all the electrical and everything,

so you could set up a stove. You could set up a little refrigerator back there. It's all plugged in, ready to go. Mm-hmm. I love, I mean, I love all that stuff. And it's, what do they say? It was like a Defender 110. and G-Wagon had a baby for the renter deer.

I would say that's for this. Yeah, that's kind of true. So it's like the sides where you can put all the jerry cans and everything. It's all set up to mount stuff on it right away. I got it all set up. I was so excited. And then I called them. I was like, hey, can I get rid of this click?

And they said, yeah, and they walked me through the thing. And I, whatever. This is what I don't want to have an iPad. I just want a car. I don't want to drive a computer. And so I'm in there, I turn it off. And I'm like, oh, thank you so much. I'm driving.

I'm like, oh, it's not doing the clicking anymore. I stop. I get out, I go in and do something, I get back in the car, immediately it's back on again. Click, click, click, click, click. I'm like, we're getting rid of this. I'm like, so my wife, I'm like, let's get rid of this thing. Well, you're an old land cruiser guy. The problem is those cars have a charm.

Yeah. There's a charm to those old land cruisers, especially the one that you have the 60 series. You drive one of those things, man. It's like that feels like you're involved in every part of the driving. It is. I love that. It's my time machine. Yeah, it's like, yeah.

I love it. And you have a V8 in it too, which is like, so you got modern power, LSV8. Yep, LS3's in there, so that's nice. But that has thick doors, too. Much thicker than the 80s. Yeah, and I do love my 80s.

I don't know much theater, but much thicker, but thicker. I like the 80 series. I have 280 series now, both stock 96. And I love those because they're just modern enough, but they need someone to do a little work on them. They make some strange noises, but they work. But my son, like, pick him up in school in it, and he's like, ah, dad,

because it's still making this crazy it's almost like it's the it's going over the speed limit thing but it's constant so it's just to come fucking hundreds of thousands of miles yeah yeah these have over a hundred both of them but so I love that and have a 78

FJ 40 that I love so that's pretty I love that one and it's uh it's all completely restored so it's all original for the most part yeah yeah it's fun getting on the highway with that thing isn't it yeah you go about 40 miles an hour tops tops I mean you're in that slow lane yes so slow but it's cool for zipping around town I love that and I gave an icon to me

You make you one of those. I know it's on the list. It's on the list. Of course, SETI. Get them and make one of them beasts that they make. Because they make them with the giant V8s in them. Yeah, they do some serious work. That's fun.

Yeah. So I'm thinking I'm a Land Cruiser guy. And I tested out that you know this didn't work out for me. But that's not to say that they won't work out for someone else. They're awesome vehicles. And if you're a modern type person, I get one for sure. Yeah. If you're into that style of, like, defender-looking car, but you don't want all the bullshit that comes with owning a defender.

Yeah. Either get a refurbish one, like East Coast Defenders does a great job. They'll put a big engine in it and do it all right. Yeah, there's a bunch of them now that do that. The Grad Deer is a great solution. I think they're going to come out with a new one that has more horsepower and they'll probably improve some things. I would like them just give me a fucking dashboard. Yeah.

Is that so hard? I mean, they're doing everything else old school. You have all these buttons and everything. It's all fucking old school looking like a jet fighter pilot with all the locking differential. I know. Give me a fucking spedometer. Just a regular speedometer. That's it.

Put it right in front of me. That's it. And also make the lights so that. But the auxiliary lights will turn on when it's not in the off-road mode. I don't know if you tried that, but they're the auxiliary lights. Except for the light bar on the top, but the other ones in the front, like you have to be an off-road mode for some legal reason. So you have to, I mean, sure, someone can bypass it somehow.

But when I come up to our house, there's no lights, and it's a long drive up there into the mountains. And I just want to hit the switch and have just daylight in front of me. And that was not possible with that. I got my land cruiser setup, or if I was in a dark field, you would think a UFO landing. Nice. And yours is 100 series, right? No, I have an 80. Here's the 80. Okay.

Yeah, ICON built me that way. Yeah, yeah. It was TLC at the time. Yeah, yeah. But they put bars all around it. I think sick. And bars in the bed. So, like, you could park and, like, light up the perimeter.

That's what I want. I want daylight. It's awesome. And you put a tent on the roof and you're out there in nature. I love it. I love it. I did drive a G-Wagon yesterday. So we landed, went right to Staccato.

And so they had a portion of G-wagon right there. And I was like, oh, man, I think my wife's telling me I need to get something more modern that's going to be reliable. We're not going to just break down all the time. And so I'm like, they said, well, drive this thing. And so I got in it. It was like at 2016, so it was before some changes, I guess, were made. And I think it was nice. Yeah, so 2016 would have two live axles.

I think they got independent front suspension later. Yeah. I think that was like the 22 or something like that. They started doing that. But I still can't do it. It's too L.A., two Kardashians. Yeah, it's very Kardashian. But the reality of it is, it's a military vehicle.

The thing about G-wagans, though, is people, do take them and then they build them out for off-road. Yeah, they don't do it with like the AMG turbo fucking thing. But the regular one is a V8 anyway. It's got plenty of power. I like the old ones. Yeah, but you can get one of those old ones and people have done amazing builds where they put like large tires on them, they raise it up a little bit and they put like strong steel

bumpers and like rock sliders on the side and, you know, it's a beast of a truck. I'll probably need something new at some point, something newer at some point. Yeah, because the platform is amazing. I mean, the platform is really designed for military application. Yeah, the new land cruisers. I'm not quite there. Yeah, I like the old stuff. You know, like the newer ones.

I mean, they're probably great. The new, new one is, like, really more modest. Yeah, it is. Yeah, they drop the price on them. It's not like what they were getting to, which is basically like... Trying to compete with Range Rover. But they're also fucking themselves because they have Lexus. Yeah, yeah.

And Lexus is like the best version of that. Right. Is it the 550 G-EG? What's the new one that they have? I think the new one's a 600, I think it's called. Well, they have the smaller one, which is more like land cruiser size, like 80-ser size, and they have the larger one. Okay. I had three of the larger ones, this 570s.

I had three of those. Because they never break. They were like my favorite family car to drive around, and it's awesome four-wheel drive. They're great in snow and anything else. And they fucking always work. You always work. Yeah, hard to beat that. Toyota is so good.

I know. So reliable. I know. The guys got over to Africa to start filming this thing in, we got there in February or March. Anyway, we went over there. And the advanced crew went over first to get everything set up. And then Chris and I came over a little bit later and when everything was all set up. But the guys were texting back after they were doing all the advance work for the different places, we're going to go shoot. And they're like, now we understand your obsession with the land cruiser. They're all driving land cruisers in Africa. Oh, yeah. Once you get over to any rough place and you realize like, oh, you want a car that 100 is going to work for. There's a reason why they became so popular. It's not a mystery. Yeah, yeah. Same thing, it's like the, is that a Seiko? Yeah.

Nice. It's like they said, that's the Toyota of watches. That's the Willard. That's the one that Captain Willard wore in Apocalypse now. Absolutely, which I think came out. I have an original. I have an original. I have a 1971, I think it is.

70 or 71. Okay, yeah, I collected all the Sog Seiko's because this is Mac V. Sog, so I collected all those. I think there's four of them that they've seen pictures of Macfisog guys wearing going into Laos, Cambodia, North Vietnam, which is what the book is focused on. So not only did I try to transport myself back by listening to all these things, but I had the watch right there. Like this is 1968 Rolex.

Oh, nice. So I got that thing in the Submariner. So I surrounded myself with things that are like totems from the book. So this is what Tom Reese, and I had a cool way that he wins this. How did you get it at 68? Where'd you find that? Do you get it online? Buddy of mine, who's a Rolex dealer out in PA, found it for me.

Wow. Wow. Wow, that's fucking cool. Yeah, so I like the older stuff now I'm finding. Crazy looks exactly the same. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, there's a little bit of the crystals different and stuff like that, but the allume's different, that sort of thing.

Well, they used to be a utility watch. It used to be, that used to be a tool watch, which is crazy because you think of them today as being luxury. But the reason why they were built so well was just for, you know, to use them diving. Yep, exactly. They were actually a watch that people would dive with. Exactly. And also you wear something like this or like that.

Then people like, watch people know. They'll see it and be like, oh, okay. It's not like some guy that went out and bought an expensive watch. They're like, okay, if someone put a lot of thought into this, like you were in the Willard and me having those Macfee'sogs in this one from 1968, it tells you put a little more thought into this sort of thing than like just what's an expensive watch or something along those lines. But, yeah, I mean, it tells a story. Yeah, it's pretty dope.

It's pretty thin, too. Yeah, it's a little thinner than I thought when it can. And the band's a little different, it kind of make some, take some noise there. But I love this. And so it's these and the tutors that guys were wearing. back in Vietnam, the Seals in particular. The Tudor Submariner, so I got one of those recently. I've been wanting to get one for years, because when I got to the SEAL teams,

this is a rumor, so I never saw it with my own eyes. But, so it's secondhand information, is that they're in supply. They were destroying the Tudors with hammers. And I can't, because now we're getting issued Seekos. And so they'd issued these to the guys that actually they jumped in to get the Apollo spacecraft. Seals jumped in after those thing, UDT SEALs, to get those guys out of the water. and these people in supply, I think in the 90s, were destroying the tutors for some reason,

probably because they were told to, so guys wouldn't get them and sell them or something like that, I don't know. But I did track one down recently through watches of espionage. And so he found me a new tutor, or an old tutor. But I got that, and then we did a little documentary with some old guys from the 70s,

from in the 60s that were seals in Vietnam, and they were pulled out of Vietnam. They were in Vietnam one day, and then the next day they were off the, in the Pacific on an aircraft carrier, waiting to recover the Apollo astronauts. Whoa. Yeah, pretty cool.

We did a documentary on it for Tudor. And it was pretty cool to talk to those guys. I mean, just amazing. Because now they're taking lives in Vietnam, and now they're just thrown into this, on these helicopters to jump into the ocean to save lives. It's kind of a cool juxtaposition. Yeah, for sure.

It is interesting that their equipment became luxury. Yeah. Weird. Well, you can go back. I love these old ads, Rolex ads from, I think they're 60s, 70s, 80s. I mean, there's some from the early 80s. where they have a guy with a rhino.

And it's like the editor of guns and ammo magazine with his dead rhino, where's a Rolex? And they had at least, yeah, they had like two of those types of ads back then. I don't like to acknowledge that today, I don't think. The Rolex people. Yeah, don't kill rhinos. But that was like in the early 80s. They were still marketing towards that.

So, yeah, really cool. They were still rugged. Well, think about didn't James Bonn always have? Oh, there we go. If you were looking for Lost Empires here tomorrow, you'd wear a Rolex. There's one. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

But you got to find the one with the Ryan. I know. Well, they're so fucking dependable. Yeah. Frederick Forsyth, the author, actually had one. They used to do, had a relationship with him in the 70s and 80s. And they're like, here's Frederick Forsyth, who wrote Day of the Jackal, wearing his jackal coat in front of this jaguar. And it's just, you'd never see that today.

But there it is, yeah, there you go. If taming oil well fires were your job, you'd wear a Rolex. Isn't that crazy? What? Yeah. Let's see if you find the hunting one, me a Rolex hunting or something. But they're just... Look at that of racing here.

Like, it's for anybody that's doing anything difficult. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of crazy. And now it's tennis and it's golf. Well, now it's just like, you know, looking fancy at a restaurant or whatever you're doing. There we go. There's Connor. You're right there.

The Thunderball Action. Yeah, yeah. Love it. Yeah. Fleming had one. He doesn't say which specific model it is in the books. Of course, Omega sponsored the movie starting with Bronson, I think. But in the books, it's a Rolex.

He doesn't say what specific model. but he wore, I think, Fleming wore an explorer, I think. There it is. Oh, there you go. You hunted big game over the world. Cape Buffalo. There's Cape Buffalo right there. Where Rolex.

Wow. Pretty cool. Weird. Yeah. They don't do that today. Just weird that that became, it went from being like this manly, super durable thing through, like, when do people really start getting into watches and collecting them? And when did it become, like, a fetish? Must be the 80s.

Yeah? Must be the 80s, I would guess. I mean, I think it's always been a thing because you can go back and find, like, amazing the Paddock Philippe's. and stuff like that and go back find the omegas, the old Rolexes, and it's a thing. But now it's kind of nuts.

Yeah, now it's gotten a little crazy. Which why I like the vintage stuff because it puts a little more, just like the cars, just like, it's my time machine. Now when people have like those Richard Millet watches and you hear there are half a million dollars,

like what are you talking about? Why are you buying that? Yeah. Like what's going on here that I'm missing. That's an amazing story. It's not like that has a huge history to it. It's fairly recent for those watches. Do you know what the rumor is?

The rumor is one of the first watches that he was supposed to sell was supposed to be $15,000, but someone put an extra zero on it? No way, really? This is what someone told me. Hey, let's go with it. It's good story.

It's good story. And then people bought it. It's like, hey, hey, hey. Let's try $300. Sometimes that's how it works. I mean, people love the watches. It's a beautiful, if you're into that style of watch. I like, simple.

Yeah. That's what I like. This is why I like the SACO. Nobody gives a shit about it. It's not impressing anybody. Well, it is if you know. If you know. But it's like, it's a really well-made watch.

It'll never fuck up. I think it's got a 52-hour time reserve. Yeah, yeah, I love that stuff. We're very intentional with all the gear and the TV shows. I know you are, yeah. And your books as well. Yeah, in the books as well. So it tells a story.

You know, you see somebody with that tells something, that tells me something about you. You see something with the Richard Mill, wherever you say. We shard me made, I think it is. It probably is Richard Mill, but it's like, they ain't going to sell. When you add another zero, then it goes to, like, Joe Dirtay, you know? Yeah, exactly. So it changes things a little bit. But it tells me the story.

just like the characters in the books but the watches in particular are important one because it's important to me as a watch guy my whole life for some reason I just have this connection with time and the value of time so I've always been a watch guy my whole my whole life and so putting these watches on characters that tell you something about that

character like in Dark Wolf they have to get rid of their G-shocks and go get something that would make a little more European and when they transition over from being these seal guys to being these CIA operatives and drop get rid of the gators we say get rid of the gators get some sunglasses, get some expensive watches, that sort of thing. But I still wanted something that had a

connection to the SEAL team. So I picked a tutor for Taylor Kitch's character, and I got that one. I got to keep that one. So that was pretty cool. And then put a panor eye on Rafe Hastings, Tom Hopper's character, to differentiate him a bit from Ben Edwards, the Taylor Kitch character. And also Tom's a big dude, so you need a big watch on that guy. Right. He's huge. He is huge. I'm sure. I think all the, like my wife and her friends were so excited about Taylor being in the show because Texas forever, you know, and they were all coming up during that time frame where he's on front of night lights and all that stuff.

And then Tom Hopper gets out of the pool without a shirt on. They're like, oh, Tom Hopper. Oh, my God, it is. And so I told Tom that probably if we do Savage Son as a movie, he's probably not going to have his shirt on much in there. Got to expand the audience.

We've got to sell streamers. Exactly. Exactly. But he's such a good dude. That's awesome. Yeah, all those guys are great. It's awesome. What does it like?

Like having this thing that you sat down by yourself? this world that you created, and now you're not just selling books, but you're filming the visual representation of your work. It's got to be kind of surreal. It is surreal. Every time I walk on to set, I feel that way. I feel it's grateful for the most part. I just feel so much gratitude towards everyone involved. And of course, the people who made it happen, most specifically Chris, because if Chris didn't want to do it, didn't want option, it probably wouldn't happen. It wouldn't have happened. We wouldn't be on this journey together. And he's so invested in it. And you mentioned some other shows earlier and there's just there's a difference between an actor who gets paid to do something does it

and moves on to the next project and somebody like chris who is so invested in this and i think the other actors see that and taylor's like this by nature like american primeval any role taylor takes on he is just so invested in it it's not just a paycheck like it is it's going to now become part of his experience and uh and he really looks at it through that kind of a lens so to have guys like that involved that are so personally connected to the material and also to the community like the veteran community at large it means something to them and so they put so much into it

so when I walk on set it is surreal and to know that everybody is and people come up to me all the time on set and thank me for creating this universe allowing them to be there but not just that they can be there working on a set it's that we have created mostly through Chris Antoine Fuqua David Agilio

all these guys at the top David DiGillio's the showrunner and to build this family and people come up to me all the time and they say that they've been involved in hundreds of Hollywood productions and they've never felt this way on a set before. And that's because you're filming these things for seven, eight months. And that doesn't count all the work that goes into the scripts ahead of time

and all the post-production. So just being on set. And so during that time, people are going to get married, get divorced, lose loved ones. Life is going to happen. And David DeGillio, in particular, is the showrunner. He makes sure that everyone is taken care of. And we're also bringing people along with us. So if they're in a department this season,

they're going to move their way up in that department next. season so it's uh they really feel taken care of and it's all genuine and i think that helps bring their everybody bring their a game and everyone is so happy to be there on these sets it's really cool and people tell me how different they want to make sure that i know that it's not like this on every hollywood production that's cool that's got it feel great that's cool it is and uh i mean it all trickles down from the top yeah you know comes out comes out comes down from the top for sure um and even at the rap party people these guys hang out after like all the actors hang out afterward the cast the crew everybody's hanging out after hours they're not

just turning into ghosts. They're hanging out, having a great time. A rap party, like, I've heard that a lot of the, like, number one on the call sheets, maybe they'll make a quick appearance and leave or something like that. I mean, Chris is there. He's in it. He's having a great time. Everyone's thanking everybody.

And he's such a, such a great guy. He's a very normal guy. For a movie star, he's oddly normal. Yeah, he's a normal guy, like, I mean, just like us. We spend time with him, you know, outside of anything, you know, professional. Well, I hung out with him in Honeycan. Yeah, yeah. We were there, yeah.

So it was like, he just hangs out with everybody. He was like so cool, so normal. Yeah. You know, for a movie star, just be chilling. Such a great guy. We, like, speaking of Tom Cruise and all the stunts, so the last thing that we filmed in Morocco was underwater sequences. So it was not filmed linear, in a linear style.

So it's from the first episode. So it's Chris falling off the boat and being underwater. And he's in this pool, underwater, not a stunt double. We had some stunt double do some falls and stuff like that. Chris Romero, who's awesome, looks like Chris, takes some crazy beatings. He's amazing. And he's a huge dude. He can just stand right here and do a backflip.

Like, it's insane. I think he was a huge dude. It's awesome. And such a nice guy, too. But Chris underwater, like, and you can have this underwater, like, communication system. And they're like, all right, ready, three, two, one, action. And he takes a thing from a regulator. And then it goes away.

And then we're filming. And he was under there for like three plus minutes holding his breath doing this stuff. Yeah. And for anyone who's tried to hold their breath for three minutes. That's serious. Holding your breath for three minutes just sitting still is hard. But underwater. That's nuts.

And we were watching this thing, we're like, is he okay? And now he's just showing off. At a certain point we're like, cut, and he stays down there. Like, he's just showing off at this point. Did he prep for that? I think he's just a bit from wrestling and from all this other stuff, breath control stuff. He's such an athlete that I think it was just kind of natural. I don't think he was prepping for it.

I think he just did it. But it looks so good. It looks crazy. All the stuff that he gave us down there is amazing. And that's how we finished up the show is to finish that. All the casting crew around at night, all the lights, the underwater stuff. Chris getting banked out of the water. and then that was the end

and we went right to the party from there so that's awesome yeah yeah we got to talk about the future of the show we stayed up pretty late and me and Chris and the showrunner and Jared Shaw you met when we were hunting that time who gave Chris the book former seal buddy of mine

and so we all had to talk about the future of the show so hopefully it's Savage Sun next and that's people's favorite I think of the books that and Red Sky Morning the last one and mine is this one everyone has been my favorite thus far but this Vietnam books

your favorite book you've written Yeah, my hands down. One, because how much I put into it, one, I want to get better with everything. Every book, I think it's gotten better as I go along. And if I can say that truthfully to myself, then I feel like I'm doing my job and doing my service to the story, which in turn serves the reader. People who are trusting me with this time that they're never going to get back. Well, it's like every other skill, right? The more time you invest in it and the more you hone it and the more attention.

Yeah, it has to. It should be getting better. It has to. You have to get better. Yeah. Because you can tell when people start. start phoning it in. You can tell.

You know, they're not enthusiastic anymore. Yep. And this one, I mean, like, there's a lot of pressure from publishers also to get things in on time because now I sell,

like maybe at the beginning it didn't matter, but at this stage, it matters because of the number of the books that are being sold. So they need to, and it's a business. And so they need to make their numbers. And so as a creative person,

they are putting a lot of pressure to get it done. Just get it done. And I have to fend that off. I have to, like, hey, whatever pressure is put on me from the outside, I've got to focus on this story,

and it's going to be done when it's done because it has to be the best that it can possibly be but that's a lot of pressure coming in from the outside and you have to fend it off but I can see you know how if you're

I can see it being very easy to just say okay I got to 100,000 words I gotta wrap this thing up right and I'll never do that my readers mean too much to me the story means too much for me this profession means too much for me

to ever do something like that how many what is the percentage of audiobooks versus hard copy a lot more audio really like how much more I don't know because I don't look at the numbers I'm not a business guy I have more of an entrepreneurial type of mind.

So just knowing that Simon and Schuster is incredibly happy across the board. So the hardback sell. But they tell you. They do have numbers, yeah. And they share them and I just see numbers. But I couldn't tell you exactly. But it's a lot more. Yeah, it's a lot more.

Interesting. And I think that's Ray Porter. I mean, incredible. He's really good. He's fantastic. Such a good human being, too. We use his voice in Darkwell for those listening. They'll be able to recognize his voice in there.

What's an odd skill to be able to do all those different voices and accents? And then not have it jarring that a man is. playing a woman, you know, which is weird, because he plays, he's got to play a woman's voice. That's a tough one for any guy. It's fucking weird, you know, it's weird, because you have to kind of like, there's a suspension of disbelief. Yeah, yeah. You know, in the real world, you're like, hey, fuck off, that's not a chick.

Right. You know, you got a phone call from a lady. Right. So where are we going to meet? Yeah, let's meet at the barbershop. Like, what, what? Yeah, call that a clue. What's what's going on?

Yeah, call that a clue. Yeah. You probably listen to it, unless you're looking for it, I guess. But his girl voice is oddly believable. Yeah. I mean, I can own anybody else who can do it better. That's a tough one. That's a tough position to put a person in the accent. It's like Graves accent. Oh, my gosh. I give him a tough one in this one too. I have a guy who's actually based on a real person in the book he lives in real life. He died in, I think, 1965. But it was a Finnish officer who got the whatever the Finnish cross is. It's in the book. I forget exactly what it is. But then fought for the Germans and got like the German Mannheim cross or something. And then after World War II, they tried to grab a bunch of people who had experienced. in essentially Eastern Europe to bring over to our military so that we would have experience if we went to a war with the Soviets. And so they brought all these guys in into the military. And so then he gets a bronze star in the United States military Army Special Forces.

His helicopter went down. I think it was 1965, but he was part of McVe-Sogg. So I fictionalize his character in here. So I had to give those three. So I have to have, so Finnish, German, and English kind of a morph. And Ray Porter has to do that. And so he has to read that and come up with something like that. And he pulls it off.

It's incredible. Wow. I was just texting him before I came in here, actually. He's filming a play up in Oregon, waiting for Godot, I think, right now. So I'd love to see him on stage and see, just see him not just doing the voice, but acting. Yeah, I've never seen him in anything. I don't think. He's dark side.

He's dark side in that Justice League. Oh, okay. But that's a bunch of, you can't really, you know, voice. I haven't seen that. Yeah. So he's in that. So he's in almost famous, a bunch of sitcoms in the 90s. But just an awesome dude.

But, but yeah, audiobooks. And I think it's because of podcasts. I think people listen to a podcast, and it is a very natural way to then get whatever you're talking about on the podcast through the same medium. So over the audiobook, it's just a very natural transition to listen to the audiobook. And a lot of people are doing both, thank goodness. So they're getting the hardcover, and then they're listening on the car on the way home,

and then they get inside, and they're reading a little bit before bed, get up to go to work in the morning, pick up again where they left off reading. So a lot of people are doing both. Well, you know, Audible, the way it works with Kindle, rather, there's a there's an app where it'll pick up where you are oh what is it exactly it what is it whisper sync something like that so it picks up exactly where you left off reading and it'll pick up with the audio on a Kindle though and then the audio book will know that you you're reading at night interesting so pick up where you left off the next day

interesting but that's I'd be on a Kindle I can't do the Kindle I feel that I do so much work on a screen that I don't want to have something I read for an enjoyment to be the same thing so I want it to be I'm a physical book to go through I just I'm just that kind of guy the dope thing about a Kindle though is you can get 80 books on it or probably 80,000 instead of my luggage you know how many you can get on them honestly but and then also the white paper screen where it really does look like paper pretty fucking incredible yeah still for me once again like the watches like the cars I have a thing it's a theme oh listen my wife's the same way she won't she only reads book books

oh I love that I love that a lot of people are like it's like there's like there's It's a thing that you have in your hands and you're turning the pages is like the tactile feeling and you know when you're halfway into the book like, oh my God, things are getting crazy I'm halfway in here. You can see it.

How's he going to wrap this up? You can't see it rather than I'm at 37%. Exactly. It doesn't mean anything. Just a different type of a deal. But I picked up Charlie Sheen's book in the airport on the way here. Oh, did you?

And so I'm reading about halfway through because he's coming on the podcast and I want to talk to him. I'm going to ask him about, you know, apocalypse. I'm going to keep it to Apocalypse now, platoon, Navy SEals. Kind of like keep it in that kind of thing.

But reading that book, oh my gosh, it's amazing. But I had to buy it. I couldn't just get it on the, I already had the PDF. They sent it to me, but I wanted to buy the book. I wanted to physically have it and make my notes in there and all that. So I'm doing that. But listening to him on this on your podcast was so interesting. Oh, yeah.

What a good guy. This is what I told people, like, you can't be normal if you're on the set of Apocalypse now when you're 10 years old and then 10 years later, you're in platoon. Yeah. You're the lead. Yeah. In platoon, 10 years later. Like, how do you expect that guy to be normal?

Yeah. No one can handle that. It's not handleable. Yeah, that level of stardom is, especially in the 80s, before phones and everything else when they got after it. Oh, and the drugs. Yeah. I mean, he was involved in so much drugs. From early on.

Yeah, and back then, you could do drugs. You didn't die. He didn't die. He didn't die. Well, actually, one of the ladies he talked about in the documentary that gave him a blowjob while he was smoking crack for the first time. I saw that. died in an overdose but you gotta try hard it's not like today you gotta accidentally do a snort of coke and then it's fentanylaced and you're dead right and that's a hundred thousand people

in america every year it's crazy yeah but what he was doing was just going hog wild that he's alive and he's alive is incredible yeah he looks great he looks he looks a lot better than he's looked in the past like when he came in him like dude you look healthy i think he said he'd almost been sober for eight years. I've been sober for seven plus years. It's coming on eight years. I think he said December. I forget. But it was very impressive. And he's like really nice guy. Yeah. You know? No, it seems like it. He was a fan of the books beforehand. So he likes all this stuff, likes Dark Wolf, likes Terminalist, all that stuff. So yeah, so that'll be fun to talk to him. And also I went to see Navy SEALs the day before it came out. There was a showing at like midnight on Thursday

or something like that before it came out on Friday back when I was in high school and I knew I was going to be a SEAL. So I was so excited. I'm like, they cast Charlie Sheen, the guy from platoon in this. I'm like, ah, perfect-ass thing. And so I went and saw it then. So it'd be fun to talk to him about that stuff. And I do remember, I did meet him at a, is it Red Sox game? Is that the one that they want? Is that his team? I think so. But him and his dad were in a box next to us. So I was still in the SEAL teams, and I was with some of the guys that were on the bin Laden raid, and we were in one of the owner's boxes. And Charlie Sheen was next to us with his dad. And somehow they got to talking or whatever. And so we went over there. He came over to us. I

can't remember with his dad. And I said hi. And he was fantastic. His dad was such a gentleman. that stands out to me. But Charlie Sheen was awesome, so personable. He was great, but his dad was so nice. And I stand like an old school type gentleman is what stood out about Martin Sheen. And then what also stands out is then we then left there at the end of the game. And there was a line of girls down. I'll tell him this one.

I'll see if you remembers. You might not remember. But it's because it probably happened almost every day for him, just a line of girls down the hallway outside of the owner's box. Trying to meet him. Yeah. They weren't there for me. Well, what are you going to do? Yeah, yeah.

But they were there for Charlie. And that was pretty cool. Must be rough. Yeah, yeah. But what a, what a crazy life. And then you guys came back in and had to deal with the Charlie Kirk assassination. And I thought you guys handled that in such a thoughtful way, real time. That's a tough position for both you guys to be in.

I hadn't seen it yet, you know, I just heard. And then I really didn't want to see it. I said I wasn't going to see it. But then someone texted it to me, and I just couldn't help myself. I clicked on it. I'm like, oh, I don't know. watch that i know it's so sad i was signing the those books i was signing the the books right there that day with my chief of staff and and uh she was passing me the books and i'm signing and we're checking

off the the names for these pub boxes and uh all of a sudden her phone goes off and i heard she screams and uh it's like whoa what happened and her husband is in the security field um and uh she said charlie kirk's been shot in Utah like so i of course go to x and then see it and then i can get to my kids in time because uh my daughter and our youngest son are both uh follow him, feel like they know him, essentially, and I didn't get to them in time before they saw it. So our youngest, I was most concerned about seeing that, being away from home at boarding school. And anyway, called the school, one of the guys, there's like a trusted age, and he's like a guy's guy like us, and went over and tracked him down, and he was doing fine. But it's,

it's different than seeing in the paper or on having Walter Cronkite report that JFK was killed. That's different, I think. Challenger for us in school when you're growing up. Like, we saw it explode, but you're not seeing the people. You're not seeing it as viscerally it from all these different angles from cell phones immediately. So graphic. Just so heartbreaking. So, so heartbreaking. And but you guys, I mean, you guys had to do it like real time. And I thought you guys were very thoughtful about it. Thanks. It was weird. It always feels surreal when someone dies, but when someone gets assassinated like that. And then there was the weirdness of the reactions of people. That was the most disturbing aspect of it.

where I was like what is what have we done I know what have we done to people's minds with social media and with political discourse that you are thrilled that someone was murdered in front of his children on the internet for the world to see and you you are celebrating because you didn't like his ideas yeah like that is so crazy that we've gone that far yeah I mean you feel you could feel the evil and as much as I tried not to look at all these reactions just being fed to me because of the algorithm and everything else. So there were two in particular,

one guy, one lady, and they were like cackling, like a witch's cackle, like out of some sort of a, some sort of a fairy tale that's meant to scare kids that, you know, but in real life celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk and, I mean, that was revolting, but you could feel the evil through the cackles. I've never felt like that before, but I mean, very few times

I should say. I think a lot of it is very performative and I think a lot of People are doing it for clicks and likes, and they think that there's a lot of like-minded people that feel the way they feel. And then there was a wave of people that were, like, excited about losing someone who's a right-wing influencer. They were happy about it. It was real weird.

Yeah. Like, and continues to really kind of fuck with my head because I didn't think that that would be the case. I'd hoped it would be very few people. I'd hope. But it wasn't. No. It was a lot.

It was a lot in real life, too. social media. You know, I've had multiple friends that encountered people celebrating in real life. One of my friends was at a cafe writing, and this lady came in, and she was on a Zoom call, and it was right after the assassination, and she gets in a Zoom call, and she's like, well, I don't know about you guys, but I am having a great day now, and they were like, this is a great day. I'm having a great day, too. I'm having a great day. The events of the day have made me very happy and they were laughing and smiling and like clapping publicly like in a cafe and it was a very obvious what they were talking about like that's so

gross and feel comfortable enough to do that right that's acceptable that you're you're we want that attached to you for the rest of your life and you don't take one second to say ah maybe even from a practical standpoint like maybe I should just sit this out even if I feel happy maybe I should do some reevaluations but even if that's not the case Like, maybe I should just sit this one out type of a thing, but instead they feel comfortable to jump on and say those things. I mean, it was ridiculous. And I mean, I could feel the evil coming through the phone, which is a strange thing to say. And I've been like in Bogram early on in the war in Afghanistan.

I remember the, I don't know if it was really a black sight prison, but it was like a nasty prison. They had this smell and you could feel like this kind of this overriding sense of, I don't know. You had despair, but also like this little bit of a current of evil in there. And then same thing in Baghdad where they held Saddam, like being in there. I've been in both those places. and you kind of feel a little but even more so you feel it with Saddam's kids and they're like they have these little islands and palaces

and you know what they did there they could pull in girls off the street and that sort of thing and you just feel dirty or you feel evil I mean you sense it in some of those places but I felt that same kind of thing coming through the phone and then I felt it again it's weird to feel it so many times my wife and I were in Paris like I said

right before I came out here so it was Morocco finishing the show for about a month then to Paris and it happened to be fashion week and we weren't there for fashion Week. It just happened to be Fashion Week, which is still going to now, I think. But we were in this, we wanted to go to one dinner where we could see some people, kind of do some people watching, and I could store some of it away for books. And that's what I'm always collecting, always collecting. And so we wanted the place that Kardashians, again, where they stay called like Kotis. Anyway, we went into this hotel that's where a lot of the fashion people stay. And it was interesting at first. We're seeing some people just treat the weight staff horribly. And so you're getting kind of taking some notes on that. And then this guy walks in with like two minions and you don't see his face because he's got this like hood on but there are these earrings that are attached to the outside and they're hanging down and he's this like fairly obese person and so you never saw his face the way he was he walked in and then sat in front of us with these two guys on either side that had their sunglasses on and they

were like both dressed very similarly and both side of them they just were looking at him like this and just it was so odd but you felt this sense of evil and I don't really like using that word too much but you felt something odd so much so that we paid the bill and left it was odd It was so odd and a similar thing that I felt coming across the phone with those people celebrating Charlie Kirk I don't know we were going to go back to our hotel and look up like try to see like who's it fashion week Who dresses this way because it was very strange like these black robes and it was just the weirdest thing with Ureys? Yeah, but attached through the through the like like your hoodies on and kind of like clipped the outside or something and coming down like from the outside of like this thin hoodie It was very bizarre but you felt like that person was evil. Yeah, I've never I mean very very

rarely do I feel that anyway you know it's very strange feeling but I've learned to listen to my to those feelings listen to the gut listen to the six sense that's kept us alive as a species for so long if you went to Davos when they have like those W world economic forum conferences I'd bet you'd smell brimstone maybe I bet you would I'd be looking for it though that might be different you know that might be different if you're actually looking for it it's kind of a difference but I bet like whenever you can get a bunch of billionaires together that are trying to decide the fate of the world I bet you feel it you

I don't know. I'm gonna have to go to one of those at some point. I did I did go to Bohemian Grove. I don't think you're supposed to talk about it, but it's I didn't feel that there like it was more like guys getting away for the weekend to drink. I've heard a lot of people say that about Bohemian Grove recently and I know people that have gone like that have been invited and Kid Rock told me he went a couple other guys told me they went they're like I want to see what the fuck it is and so they went I'm like but did you ever watch the Alex Jones video like when Alex Jones and John Ronson snuck in right that's back when Alex Jones and John and John John Ronson were united. Who's John Ronson? John Ronson is the British journalist. Oh, okay. He's the guy who wrote so you've been publicly shamed. I don't know. I'll have to look that up. It's about like one of the, it's it's, it's about like the first mass cancellations through social media and like this new public shaming thing that happens. Yeah, yeah. Uh, very interesting guy. Yeah. But there it is. There's Ronson. Okay. And so he snuck in with Alex Jones. Yeah, I saw someone. So I didn't see anything weird like that. And, uh, But I know you're talking about it, like, the burning thing. I think that's, when I think about it, because I didn't see any of that stuff, but I'm thinking it must be. They probably don't do that anymore. Maybe not, I don't know, but I, but I probably ruin the party. Maybe. But when I'm thinking about it, if I think about it logically, you know when you, like, throw something into a fire, like at Buds, guys would burn their dungarees, and dungarees are like a regular Navy uniform.

And if you make it through buds and don't get kicked out of the teams, you'll never have to wear that uniform again. And it's like, it was awful. It was bellbottom jeans and a denim shirt, like, tucked in that you had to starch in a, you had to starch in a, especially in boot camp in a way that, like, well, you hold it out flat. It's awful. And the little Dixie Cup hat. Like, that's the uniform. Like, the worst uniform in the history of uniforms.

Like, it is nothing tough about that. But people would burn them. And so, like, never going back, you know, like that sort of a thing. And then 80% would quit. But they burn their uniform. So I think it may be something like that. You know, you want to burn something. Like, that's what I think it might be.

But I don't know. 80% will quit before they get through buds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Along the way. most in Hell Week, but at some point along the way, typically 80%, give or take. You know, we'll make it.

But burning that thing is kind of like burning the boats, which is not a real thing. Can you get through Hell Week and then they still quit? Some, some, not many. Not many. Most people will be performance dropped after that for not being comfortable in the water for pool comp when you're getting pounded off the bottom of the pool by instructors and then you're having to go through the right procedures to get your air turned back on and continue to crawl, and then they come and hit you again and rip your mask off

and hit you in the gut so you expel your air, turn off your air, tire because it's the two hoses, super old school, tie them in a knot, and they back off to see that you're comfortable in the water and that you're going to go through the right procedures to get everything working again and continue on. So that's about 15 minutes of doing that. And some people just aren't comfortable in the water. And so they'll go. Is it just a panic thing? Yeah. I mean, air is cut off. And it's easy to get more air. I mean, you're only 10 feet or 15 feet, whatever it is, back to air. So it's very easy to get that air. But you have to go through the right procedures and just like you've been taught and be very comfortable. And, yeah, that's what the test is all about. And they punch you in the

stomach yeah so you lose some air so it just it just makes you even more uncomfortable that makes a big difference like who's punching you yeah instructor yeah and where they're hitting you yeah yeah yeah and it's a yeah and it pounds you off the bottom you kind of just go limp just relax just like jujitsu or something like that like okay relax and then okay now I'm gonna get into this so I love I love that sort of thing because that was the only time in buds where it was like mono-e mono against the instructor the rest of the time you're just getting yelled at being told you're worthless push up sit-ups run swim but now it's like okay you and me I love that same thing like it's called a life saving so that's the other time you get to put your hands on the instructors is you have to go out and they'll act like a different type of person drowning so they'll fight you or they're just dead weight or something like that and they're different body types and so you get to go you swim out towards them and then you have to get them back and they'll take you down to the bottom hit you off the bottom and so they're doing the work in that in that situation and you just relax hold on just like you're got someone like a rear naked choke type thing and uh and then they have to go up they're expending their energy keeping you down there they're going to have to go

go up and get the air. So just wait, go up to the top, grab a little bit of air, get closer to the side of the pool, then they take you down again, type of a thing. And I love that, because that's the only time you can put your hands on an instructor. So I thought that was good. I like that was good. I like, you're rescuing them. Yeah. You can't just choke them. No. Because I'd be like, this turn is fucking ruining it. I'm going to put them to sleep. Yeah. No, but there's some similarities there. Just some similarities with body positions and all that sort of thing, just being comfortable with that, without air person a amount of time. But there's limitations on how you grab them. Yeah, they teach you how to, how to grab them and how to get towards the side of the

pool type of thing. Right. You can't keep them down. If you got better breath than they do, no. You can't like hold on to them. No, I don't think so. I don't think that. If they start coming up, you're like, not today, bitch. Not today. I mean, I guess somebody could, you know, but that's, uh, that doesn't sound like. If you're a world champion free diver, if you're one of those 10 minute dudes. You do have some people like that to come through. I bet. You know, you do have some really incredible athletes that come through. I bet. And a lot of them don't make it because they're being treated like, uh, Ferraris or Lamborghinis most of their life. if they're really an elite athlete.

And then all of a sudden, they're being treated like a Chevy, you know, and they're throwing through walls or whatever. And it's like, eh, not a crazy pressure test that has to be done. I mean, there's no real job that's similar other than, you know, Rangers and other elite special forces teams. Yeah. Where you have to get through this horrific thing to prove that you're the type of person that they want to train. Yeah. We're not sure if we want to train you even.

Yeah. So we don't know if we're ever going to. use you yeah and so we're going to try to break you yeah got to prove that you want to be here and that you have a mental fortitude to be here um and that you have uh you can work as a team there's a few different things that they're they're looking for but uh it's worked for a while it's worked for a long time it's a good test but it was getting really weird during the woke wokey yeah where they were talking about lowering the standards right there is that and then the so the standard part so even if they say that they're not lowering the standards is how

they get around it and this is military in general um that they give you more chances So before, if you only got one or two chances, maybe three, something like that, to pass an evolution, maybe the standard remains the same. But in order to get this person said person through, now you get four chances, five chances, six chances, seven chances, eight chances. So they say the standards have not changed. Well, okay, not really, but you gave them a lot more chances, which you didn't give other people before who were washed out of the program because they only got one chance or two chances or three. So it's, like what would it be that you would get more chances doing? Like that pool comp thing. I think you got two chances on the first day and two chances on the second day.

And I passed the first day just because I happen to be comfortable in the water. But some guys made it through on that fourth one, like, oh, maybe it just made it. But they didn't get a fifth. They did not get a sixth. And now maybe, I don't know if this is true, but this is a way around the standards. Give somebody a fifth. Give them a six. Something like that.

Or you failed the old course. Okay, one time you get some sort of a warning or something like that. And then you do it again, second time, you're out or whatever it is. well now you can just just as many times as it takes oh they passed it they passed it once let's move them on were they doing that to just expand the ranks or were they doing it to get a specific demographic well I'm not saying that they did it I'm saying that's how you would get around the standards right like you'd be able to say that we haven't we haven't lowered the standards sir type of a thing when you're in front of Congress and they don't know to ask those kind of questions well did you

okay well did you give them more chances did you change anything yeah that's something like that So they can get away with, yeah, telling the truth-ish, but not expanding on that. So that's just a way to do it. So that's a bizarre sign of the times to make elite special forces units more easy to get into. Yeah, it's a thing. Strange, right? Because there was a push to lower standards. There's a push to try to get women in it, too, right?

I don't know how much of a push it is. Have any women ever gone through it? I don't know how far they've gone. I think there were a couple that tried it and haven't made it. I'm not sure because I'm so removed from it now. but I think that I don't know if there's a push for it, but it's open now. And the part of that, it's, for me, it's, you know, I'll probably get canceled now, but, you know, or maybe we're past that, I don't know.

But to me, it's not, and what they say now, what you have to say officially, I think, is that the standards are the same. It doesn't matter if you're male or female, standards remain the same. Okay, fine. But when you get to an elite unit like that or any unit, and this might be a failing on my part, I'd fully admit that. I mean, I was raised when a woman enters the room. you stand up you open the door for a lady type of a thing like those things you stand up for

you're chivalrous you're a gentleman type of a thing um and now all of a sudden in a leadership position i'm supposed to treat a female the exact same way that i treat a male going into combat there's no way i could possibly ever do that i'm going to be much more concerned about her than i am him and once again that might be a failing on my part i fully accept that but uh i'm glad i never had to deal with it in real life but i see that being something that comes into play especially if you're raised to protect as a protector, as a Sentinel, as a guardian. And now all of a sudden you're supposed to treat said female who've been raised to protect, treat them exactly the same way as a guy going into combat.

That would be difficult for me. There's certain physical realities, I feel, that we just have to address. When people want to talk about equality, I understand that when you're talking about jobs that don't require shooting people and stabbing people in hand-to-hand combat. Okay? Because as soon as you do that and you are physically, far weaker and far slower and you're you're just you're just you're not a man it's a different thing I feel the same way about women like if you wanted to have a cross-gender combat sports

if you wanted to biological men fighting biological women I don't care if they're the same way like don't it's not fair yeah it's not it's not smart for them to be doing that yeah that said I feel like you should be able to do what you want to do. I know it's tough. In this life. And I don't want to limit anybody's choices in this life. But if you want the best people for the job, I can't see how they're going to be weaker people. That doesn't really make sense.

And if you have a physical requirement for all the men and that physical requirement involves a lot of like heavy physical working out and labor, I don't know that a woman can pass that. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've seen what you guys had to go through to get through buds. and like, okay, you have to be strong. Like, you have to, there has to be a certain amount of physical strength that you have to be able to do that. Yeah. Yeah, for me, it even comes, yeah, I guess that it comes down to that, to that. And it's probably my failing, but maybe not.

Maybe we're supposed to be, you know, supposed to be protectors. Yeah, it's supposed to be protected. All throughout human history, that's been the case. Yeah. And you're supposed to all of a sudden change because of a policy directive. But, yeah, I mean, we're going back to, I mean, it's causing a lot of feathers within the military right now, changing the Department of Defense to the Department of War, which is, and I'm not saying that they got this from me. I'm just saying that I've never heard anyone talk about it until I talked about it back in 2001. And I wrote some articles after the Afghanistan withdrawal, and I went on Fox a bunch of times and talked about how we need to precision in language reflects precision and thought.

Department of Defense, defense has a sort of connotation to it, a definition to it. And the Department of War is different than a Department of Defense, just the language of it. And I said, it's time to change the Department of Defense back to the Department of War. And I use the Afghanistan withdrawal as that example and put that in two articles. I think they both went on town hall, I believe, but I talked about it, and I'd never heard anybody mention that before. Is that what it used to be? It used to be the Department of War? Up to the end of World War II, and then it changed, and then it was official in 1947 with the reorganization of the military and our intelligence apparatus.

So, in 1947 onward, became the Department of Defense. Do you take any heat in your books? Because one of the things that you talk about, especially in the terminal list, is horrific government corruption. and the willingness to put soldiers' lives as expendable in order to profit. Yeah. I certainly talk about it in here. I was a great conversation. One of my favorite chapters is these two characters.

Tom Reese and his buddy Quinn, so one Special Forces guy, one SEAL, and they're having this conversation on China Beach. And it was great to write those chapters and do all this research into China Beach and to Nang and what kind of surfboards they were using, how they were shay, like all this stuff just to bring you back to that time frame. But that's what they're talking about. So this is about James Reese's dad. 1968, his dad, and people find out where the Tomahawk came from, where the watch came from, where honey and the coffee came from, so all these little things are kind of woven in there as well. But exactly what you just talked about is a conversation in this book in 1968, and it's the same conversation that we're having today.

But I wouldn't say I take heat over it, and I'm never going to worry in a chapter or a book about who I'm going to alienate by writing something. Criminals? You're going to piss off the criminals? Exactly. Or the people in power. He's being honest about what we did. Or just people in power in general or just a part of a readership maybe. I'm just going to focus on that story.

I have to focus on that story. I'm not writing this for a reader. I'm writing this for the story. And that way I honor that reader. So it's all about that story. But the CIA has been very nice. We got to film the end of Dark Wolf at CIA headquarters. And I hadn't been back there since I was in the SEAL team.

So I'm at CIA headquarters. I have a cameo in there that I live through at the end of the show on episode seven. the guard that takes the guy's ideas. He's leaving the, and I have a one line. I think it's, I say something anyway. But it was very cool to be there in front of that memorial wall, that wall of stars, especially knowing some of those guys that are on there that are memorialized by those stars. So the CIA was very kind to let us use that lobby. They didn't ask us to change anything in the show, didn't put any restraints or restrictions on anything. They just let us use it. And that was very cool. Some guys came down that didn't need to come down that day, which was

really cool, that wanted to talk to me about some stuff that I did in Iraq, and it was very, very cool to talk to them. Very cool. See the museum. They're going to tour the CIA Museum, all that stuff. So they've been very helpful. The military, not so much. The military does not let us use any aircraft carriers, submarines, helicopters, anything like that, like they do for some other shows. And I think that's probably because I blew an admiral up in his office in the first episode, first series, and in the book. So I don't think the military is big fans. Is that really what it is, you think? I think it probably is, because we're going to use, for the first show, we were going to use Camp Pendleton. And the Marines were all on board.

And then they're a department of the Navy. So then the Navy found out about it and quashed it. So we did not get to use Camp Belmont. Yeah. So it's, and like in Jack Ryan and stuff, I think they use actual military helicopters and maybe an amphib ship or something like that. So they get some support from the military. They didn't blow anybody up. They did exactly.

They're not blowing up admirals. They don't have corrupt admirals getting blown up in their offices with asbests. So I don't think the military is a big fan. The rank and file are. Those guys are awesome. My book signings is there's so many military, so much law enforcement. firefighters, first responders, the audience is full of those guys, and it's so fantastic. That's fiction, though.

That seems so bitchy. I know. It seems like also that that would be a very good recruitment tool, because these guys look like badasses. People are like, fuck, I want to be a seal. Yeah, yeah. It's like fucking badass. Yeah.

And so a lot of guys would probably join because of that series, and they're like, you, bad guy. It's a bad guy, though. It's not you. Yeah, yeah, justice. What are you guys going to let all the bad guys off the hook? Exactly. Come on.

You got a murderous bad guy that happens to be an admiral? You don't want to see him get whacked? Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's fiction. Yeah, and I knew that would happen at some point. I knew the people would eventually come through a line, signing line, and say, I joined the military because of you, or I became a police officer because of something I read in your books. Because that's me. I was influenced by popular culture growing up, and that helped me on my path into the SEAL teams.

So I knew it would happen. I didn't really conceptualize it any further than that. But when it happened, I was the first time, which was a couple of years ago, because the first book came out in 2018. So if someone reads that at 16, 17, 18, now there are a few years into this career in law enforcement or in the military. And guys have come up and said that now. And I'm always like, oh, man, I hope you made the right choice. I'm like, oh, I hope I was just one part of a lot of information that you took in in order to make this decision. But they do say it now.

And like with David Morel in Phoenix the other night for the launch of the book, he has been through like burn units and stuff, saying hi to people as part of like USO tour. and stuff and people like missing arms and legs are totally burned say I joined the military because of Rambo and him it's like he's such a nice guy he's just like oh I mean it's like devastating devastating yeah yeah so so it's so it's but for me it's like it's like it's always going to be about the story I knew that would happen but it was a surprise the first time kind of like the tattoo was the first surprise was a surprise the first time I saw it like the baby the other night was the first was surprised so it's uh yeah it's uh well you you really honor the actual experience that these people have in your books. It's very believable and realistic, and it does honor those people. Thank you. Thank you. That's what I... For this one in particular, that's what I wanted to do.

I wanted those guys who were not just Macfee-Sog going over the borders and fighting this in denied areas where they weren't supposed to be in Cambodia, Laos, North Vietnam, but anyone who stood up and went down there to serve, I wanted to make sure I honored them and gave my heart and soul to every word, and I felt that responsibility as I was writing this. I wanted those guys to read it.

And say, oh, he put in the effort to get it right. And even people just lived through the 60s that didn't go downrange. I wanted them to read it and say, oh, he tried to, he got close. Even if I made a mistake here or there, like he put in the effort to try to capture the essence of 1968. And that's why so much work went into this. Those guys that went into the tunnels. Oh, yeah. Like that is some of, those are some of the fucking craziest stories.

Yeah. You're going into the tunnels hand to hand. Yeah. With a 1911 and a flashlight. Looking for Viet Cong and not knowing what you're going to find. Not knowing who's in there, not knowing what's waiting for you, what's booby-trapped. Oh, yeah. That's got to be some of the toughest fighting one can do in the dark, in a tunnel under the ground,

essentially by yourself because you can't fit anybody else in there with you. Did you watch peekie blinders? No, I need to watch it. It's really awesome. Yeah. But one of the aspects of these characters is that the peeky blinders were all veterans. And they were all in World War I In trench warfare

Oh wow And they were in the tunnels Oh like the trenches Yeah And so like they came back And they have flashbacks And there's a lot of like Shell shock

Yeah Waking up in the middle night Stabbing people Thinking you're there again It's just some wild scenes Of them in the trenches Yeah And it's just like Jesus

And we're seeing some more That trench stuff in a Ukraine Mm-hmm I mean whoa But live video though I mean you've seen like 4K video off cell phones and drones and the drone stuff is scary i'm so glad that we don't have that didn't have to deal with that during my time it's fucking nuts there was watching a guy who's in the

back of a truck and uh they were running and the drone is coming out and he's firing at the drone and shoots it maybe three four yards from him i saw that one that's crazy fucking nuts and you realize like this is what they're dealing with yeah yeah exploding drones that are whizzing towards them, and someone on the other end, somewhere in the world, has got a fucking joystick and trying to get you with it. Yep. I put that in True Believer, second book, and we put it in the show. We filmed it in the second show.

I have a drone attack in there. But that was a few years ago. And just imagine when it gets to the next stage where it sends a mosquito in here, a fly, and it's looking at your face. And it's like, oh, worn out for your arrest, boom, lands on you, but where you go. Exactly. And that sort of thing. It's crazy.

It checks you with some toxic shit. Yeah. Yeah, it's so weird time. Yeah, like those videos that we just saw that it looked like Muhammad Ali's on the show. I mean, all that sort of stuff. I mean, we're getting to that point where it's going to identify you somehow, some sort of an identification through your eyes, through blood, through facial recognition, a combination of all three.

And then that is going to allow you to access whatever it is, information online, credit cards, all the rest of it, of course. But what it's really doing is allowing something, whether it's the government or big tech, more control over you. because eventually you're going to go in and, okay, to make sure this is you paying for, let's say, a stake, and now all of a sudden, oh, you've had your allotment of steak because of the environment, because of how many cows and whatever they're doing, you can't buy this steak. Or your allotment of power for your vehicle, you've used yours up for the mother gas in your car, all of those things, but it's going to know exactly because you're going to have to do it to access information online. And we're getting closer and closer to that every single day. They're just submitted to it.

They just submitted to digital ID. Oh, yeah. Yeah, these motherfuckers are pushing digital ID on these people. And once they do digital ID, they're going to attach it to a social credit score. They're going to attach it to a carbon footprint score. And then they'll be able to control your movement and control you entirely. And most importantly, they've already arrested 12,000 people for social media posts. That's insane.

Above and beyond every other country, way above Russia. Russia was like 400 last year. The UK is 12,000. Any criticism of immigration, any criticism of grooming gangs and people being raped, any talk about how horrible this is, they come visit you. It's like someone's trying to destroy England. It's literally like they've got a concerted effort to destroy England and they're getting away with it. Yeah. And what happens over there?

It's really crazy. It's really crazy to watch because the mass immigration is not an accident. If I was going to destroy a country, I would do it exactly the way they're doing it. I'd take away their freedom, take away their ability to protest, take away their guns, which they did in the 90s, and then you start tightening that noose. Tighter and tighter, add more restrictions, more this, more that. I mean, we're getting closer. And just the arresting people. When you arrest 12,000 people for social media posts, you don't just arrest people for social media posts.

You change people's ability to post about things because of fear so they self-censor so you don't even you're you're hitting them with like this one guy who complained about there's a famous video or this fucking idiot in a wig he's one of them judges and they wear the wigs the white powdered wigs and he's a sentencing this guy for 20 months for social media posts that are normal like normal complaints about mass immigration of illegals from other countries that aren't assimilating and that are. that they believe are ruining their society, which there's a real argument for. And that's what online discourse is supposed to be about. Like, having conversations, like, I'm voicing my concern for the way society is running right now because of what's happening. And no one's doing anything about it

and no one's protecting anybody. It's nuts, man. Anytime in human history, that would be called an invasion. Yeah. And now it's not just an invasion. It's like they're doing it. They're letting people do it. They're enabling these people doing it.

And they're putting them on the, Dole, too, which is even crazier. And, you know, you're seeing that in America as well, where they just uncovered a bunch of people that were illegals that had been given social security numbers and were already voting. And this is nuts, man. It's like, it's a concerted effort. And this was one of the main focuses that a lot of people had in the 2024 campaign.

There was one side that wanted to stop that and one side that wanted to pretend that it was a good thing. And like that you have an open board. and criminals and cartel members are just flooding through people from foreign countries of military fighting age just flooding through and you're pretending there's nothing wrong with that like you're setting us up for a real big fucking problem yeah have you have it's bill clinton it's uh it's hillary clinton it's uh schumer it's pelosi oh yeah it's biden from the 90s oh yeah like giving these speeches on the floor of congress that uh today would uh would be extremely right wing It's just normal. Hillary Clinton in, I think it was 2012, like whatever it was where she was running for president. And she's more MAGA than MAGA. Yeah.

Like she is talking about if you're a criminal, you know, no if hands or butts, you get kicked out. And if you're here, you pay a stiff fine because you cut the line. Like, yeah. It's wild. Yeah. Like, what happened to that? It's out there. But then we're not, you know, most people don't know about it, they don't see it.

You have to look forward or something like on those lines. Well, it lets you realize that these people that are playing these roles of leaders, they don't have principled stances on things. They go with wherever their party's leaning and wherever the majority of people believe is the direction to go. And they might not even implement these things, but just to say it in order to get elected and get people to vote for them. And that's what they did. It's insane. Hillary Clinton didn't even believe in gay marriage until. 2013. All polling, I guess. But it's the manipulation. And it's also manipulation of the populace

through all these different platforms. And what did you think also of the, I don't like to call them leaders. I like to call them elected representatives. That's what they're supposed to be. It's supposed to represent us. And they send they get there and they represent themselves. But how's the inauguration? I didn't get to ask you. Being in the room with all the lizard people that run the world is so strange. Yeah. It's so weird. It was like seeing like Hillary and seeing Obama and seeing Kamala Harris and Biden and

Bush and all those people there it's very weird it's really weird man it's real weird it's real weird being in the capital and they realize like how strange this whole process is right I mean there's this like public humiliation ritual where Trump goes on stage and talk shit

and they're right behind him there and they have to eat it and everybody cheers and claps and is very surreal yeah very surreal, very surreal. Surreal also that I'm right there too, on the stage, like, what's going on? Five rows back from the president. It's like

the strangest fucking thing on earth. And it's also strange just that this is this weird ritual that they do, this changing of the control and then, you know, the beginning of the battle for the next four years where they, everybody is like slinking away to try

their strategy and figure out what to do next and who's our warrior and now they're trying to figure it out. Yeah. Now they're talking about Pete, Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris. That's what they're going to run. All right. Okay.

Okay. Yeah. You don't fight against that. Apparently, they don't have any faith in Gavin Newsom. Oh, yeah. Which is kind of funny because he wants to be president so bad. That's true what it looks like. You can't ruin a city and then go on to ruin a state and say, guys, that was just practice.

I know. Once I get it as a president, I'm going to fix it. I fix it all. I mean, it's so crazy, but he's such a great politician. I mean, he's so smooth. I don't think so? No, no, I think he's terrible. How's he remained in power for so long?

Low competition. There's no one who's good is competing against him. There's no sincerity. I should say he's not a good, I should say he's smooth. I mean, he's a good bullshit artist. Yeah, that's what I mean. But it's like what the things that he says when he gets confronted with the highest this and the highest that, like everybody's leaving. You have the highest unemployment.

You have the highest homelessness. What's the name with Hollywood? Money's missing. You killed Hollywood. Like Hollywood doesn't exist. anymore. It's literally gone. That was such an easy one. You mandated vaccines for kids that didn't need them. You guys,

he did horrible shit. Yeah. It's awful. I went to the one in 2017, so January 2017, so we decided not to go to this last one. And, uh, because we felt like we experienced it last time. And there was all the limos on fire and the, all the chain link fences as we were getting, you know, going to all this stuff. So, so we decided not to go

to this one. But then, uh, then Tulsi called and asked if I go to her, uh, her swearing in. And so I was like, yeah, of course. And, uh, so we went to that one. And that was really cool. that was really cool to be in the room with her when she got sworn in that was amazing yeah have you talked to her about her experience there uh i haven't i don't want to bother her too much but we just she just posted about the book actually i didn't expect her to do that but she did that today which is very very kind but we do talk back and the work the reality of the reality of being in

the organization is very sobering apparently i bet oh my gosh it's got to be like nothing you whatever you think it is from the outside before you step in it's got to be a thousand times worse at least when you step into it it's bad and it's very compartmentalized there's a bunch of people that run various offices and they're all working against you. Oh, the bureaucracy is so huge and I hope she stays in it. I mean, she's such a great person. I mean, I'd support her as well, we're friends, but, uh, but I mean, it's got to be hard to stay in that fight when you see it.

She's got a lot of character. Yeah. That's not not, that doesn't get rewarded there. Yeah. I mean, I'd, I mean, I would support her if, and there's a path for her, you know, and there's, there is definitely a path for her to, uh, to get into the, to the White house. Yeah, it could be.

She could be our first female president. especially after, you know, we've seen, like, what they tried to do to her. They put her on the quiet skies thing. So they put her on a terrorist watch list. She was a U.S. congresswoman for eight fucking years. She served overseas in a medical unit, right? So she was deployed twice in a medical unit in the middle of the fucking war, and you're labeling her a terrorist.

Like, whoever did that, like, whoever signed off on that, should be in fucking jail yeah that's crazy I mean so much of that stuff that's such an abuse yeah that's such an abuse of power yeah and you want to talk about like going after your political enemies in it in a sick third world country way that's a great example that you put a Congresswoman for eight years in the terrorist watch for what right for what reason none no reason there's not like some crazy tweets where she's made and there's nothing like she's so thoughtful She's not even like Margaret D. Taylor Green, who gets hog wild sometimes.

She's not like that. It's a little aggressive. Yeah, she's a little aggressive. Like, Tulsi's not like that at all. And you put her on a terrorist watch list. Shame on you. Yeah, yeah. Fucking shame on you.

Now she's the director of national intelligence. Crazy, right? Yeah. Well, it's weird how that happens. Yeah, that's fantastic. But yeah, the next one, it's, I haven't read the book. But it's Kamala's book where she says she didn't choose Pete Buttigieg. because of his sexual orientation.

Yeah. I'm not sure about this. People can correct in the comments, please. But I believe that's illegal. Like, if you didn't hire someone because they had a certain sexual orientation, I believe that's illegal. Well, you're allowed to choose

who you think is going to work the best but not because of, and you'd say something else. Like, oh, they're not qualified. You cannot, I mean, I believe, well, someone can tell us if I'm wrong, we could probably look it up, but I do not think you can discriminate

against someone strictly because of that. If they're not qualified, of course, you choose someone else, But she goes ahead and says that's the reason that she didn't hire this guy to be her VP. Wow. I believe that is illegal. Wow. I never even thought of that.

It's insane. Well, she also has been saying something really crazy. She's been saying that this is the closest race of the 21st century and that it wasn't a mandate. I know. That's just not true. It's not true. Gore and Bush was much closer. Yes.

I think that was a half of a percent. Yes. I don't know why she keeps saying this. It's just a lie. And then also, she's leaving out the fact that she lost every swing state, every single one. Yeah. So, like, what are you talking about? I know.

He won the popular vote and he won the electoral college vote. And that's a mandate. I think, say that it's not a mandate. It's like, but it's almost like if you say it to the converted that they're going to listen and repeat it, yeah, he barely won. Right. Like, no, he won every swing state. He won the popular vote. That's called winning.

You win the House and you win the Senate that he won. That means he won. Charlie Sheen calls that winning. This is crazy talk. Yeah, it's wild. It is so wild. But she's probably hammered. She's probably up there drinking wine.

Oh, fucking kick his ass next time. Fuck him. It's so brutal. And I think she's took credit for the no tax on tips things in the book as well. That's hilarious because that was clearly his. Clearly. He said it first and they copied it. It's amazing.

Did you really say that in the book? I haven't read it, but I have heard from someone who did. did read it that she did so I you know she had a address not coming on here in the book too which I thought was funny yeah that was interesting yeah their her team was not truthful about that encounter at all they never committed to doing the show ever they said that you know I said that I had a personal day which is not true I said I am not available the day that Trump was here I said that day's not I didn't say that I was have a personal day they just made that up that's crazy and then they also said that they sent someone here to go through

the studio, like, send someone to do a walkthrough? Not true. No. Not true. How can they... I mean, it's just to repeat it and you say it and your side believes it, you move on. Why would they do that when I can just say, that's not true? It's bizarre.

But who's, who are they going to believe? They're going to believe me or a person who literally says whatever the audience wants them to say, which is what they did. Yeah, I'm not, why would I lie? I have no reason to lie. It would have been interesting to... If I fucked her over, I would tell the truth. Yeah.

If I was like, we lied. We told her I was taking a personal day But realize I wanted to get Trump in Not true I tried to do both of them in the same day That was my idea My idea was to do Trump during the day

And then her to come She had a thing she was doing in Houston After the thing with Houston I go I'll fucking do it at midnight I don't care We'll do it whenever you want to do it While you're in Texas But I just can't do during the day

Because Trump's gonna be here But they had to have known I mean the Secret Service There was 200 guys here They had fucking In Texas No, in this fucking studio. There's 200 people here for Trump.

I mean, I'm not exaggerating. It was packed. Wow. Wow. It was packed. That's crazy. Bro, they didn't fuck around. Okay.

They did not fuck around. They surrounded the building. It was nuts. Yeah, they made sure that everything was safe and secure. Wow. So, like, someone had to know something that he was here. It's not a mystery. But I said, but I wasn't trying to be deceptive.

I said, I'll do it later. I just can't do it during this time That's the excuse they took probably They want to do it's like okay They took that excuse They never wanted to do the whole thing They wanted to do like a 45 minute thing In a different place

They didn't say scripted But they did say that there's some things She didn't want to talk about And then they denied that Yeah that's what I meant by scripted yeah I said I don't care I'll talk to you about cooking I don't give a fuck

I just want to know who are you I'll figure you out I'll figure you out at a few hours Yeah, in three hours, you can't fake your way through a conversation like this. No, I'll find you. I'll find you. Yeah. I'll ask you controversial things.

All I have to do is ask you, why's the border open? We can talk about that for three hours. Oh, my gosh. What are you trying to do? Like, you could close that border. Trump closed that border in a day. Amazing. In a day.

You could say, I hate what's going on with ice, and I don't like it either. I don't like this thing of, like, taking people. And here's a thing. Well, they should have done it the right way. Yeah, okay. But if you're poor and you live in a third world, country, that's not an available option. Okay?

What is an available option is this one administration over four years is encouraging people to go through. Not only they encouraging you to go through, there's Red Cross stops along the way. They give you maps. They tell you how to do it. People are being, they're funding people getting in. They're paying for air flights. They're flying people in.

They're moving people into swing states. They're getting them on Medicare. They're getting them on social security. We talked about this one lady who did an interview. We're saying she was being told to try to get people on permanent disability. So she was told to ask them, do you have back problems? And they're like, yes. Okay, great.

Personal disability. Now she said, I was told to view them as a client now. And so you're trying essentially to bribe people to now, once you get them in, to move to a swing state, then they count on the census. Once they count on the census, it adds congressional seats. Yeah, yeah. So it's like you're rigging elections by bringing in immigrants. And then you're giving them money. And all these people that live in these poor communities, they're like, hey, where was all this money for us?

Where was all this money for the people in Chicago? Where was all this money the people in Baltimore? No, no, they're doing it because they're trying to manipulate the election. It didn't work. You know, it didn't work. Like, I had an argument with someone about it, but yeah, it didn't work, though. I go, yeah, but they tried to do it. It didn't work, but they did move people to swing states.

They did leave the border open for four years. They did let in millions of people. They don't even know how many. They don't know how many people got through. That's crazy. Once they got them here, they did give them EBT cards. They did give him cell phones. They did.

They moved him into the fucking hotel, that Roosevelt Hotel in New York City, the luxury hotel, filled with migrants. They paid for their food. They did do this. They encourage people. They did have sanctuary cities where they weren't going to arrest them. They let them come in. Still do, Portland right now. It's a very contentious.

Bananas. It's crazy. But what? Do you think you could have that conversation, let's say 15 years ago, that kind of a conversation with Kamala, if she was around back then, let's let's back back up 15 years, or is talking to all these amazing people that you've talked to over the time of this podcast has been in existence, has given you this incredible foundation from which to be able to ask such incredible questions of people and get this stuff out. of them and and 15 years ago I would never thought that it would have mattered at all if I had an opinion on anything yeah it would be like most comics that are doing podcast today where they're just shooting the shit to their friends and no one cares right no one cares you know I want to vote for this guy because I think we need try libertarianism and this is why I think it and like oh who

cares and then interesting conversation yeah moves on not that like so many people care what my fucking opinion is like that to me is a sign of the times like if you're coming to a cage fighting commentator and a dirty comedian like this is this is the guy that you needed an opinion for that means the media's failed you like what i am i'm a symptom of a broken system like if i'm a source of information like we've got a like a bit of a supply chain problem that's how i don't know i think it's being a little humble on that as well because where else could someone get these three hours where they can really listen to maybe two sides of the conversation. Right, but my point is, why didn't somebody else do that already?

Why didn't mainstream media figure that out? Why did you need someone to figure it out on a laptop in a fucking spare bedroom of their house? Like, how is that possibly the number one media show in the world that's birthed out of a laptop in a spare bedroom? It doesn't make any sense. Well, it kind of does. No, no, no. It means they failed. Yeah.

Because there's a lot smarter people than me, a lot better people at dissect. What's actually going on in the world than me, but for whatever reason, they can't do it. So how come? How you know, and like they've like there's a bunch of people from the New York Times that try the try but they're all Bullshitting. They're never free to give their real opinion. They're never free to say you know what actually This person that I disagree with fundamentally has a really good point about this right you know they have the instead of being Ideologically captured which is like most of them most of them on the right and most of on the left Instead of just being able to look at things and go that this is the actual reality that we're living in That's a failure. That's a failure of media. It's a failure of journalism. It's a failure

Yeah, and they say, oh, you know, he's not a journalist. You're right. So how come people are listening? Like, what is that about? You tell me why no one else can have these kind of conversations with people and and break it down this way. Well, it's because you're limited by your whole system if you're involved in mainstream. media you're limited by the format the format sucks you have to break for commercials you're sponsored by brought to you by Pfizer so either there's certain things you can't talk about you've got handcuffs on and if you're on the internet and you're ideologically aligned with either the left or the right well now you're captured by this box of predetermined opinions that you're

supposed to subscribe to yeah but you recognize an opportunity and throughout history but I didn't well you did something I just kept this I'm I'm telling you, man, this is not a plan. I just kept doing it. I just kept doing it, and then all of a sudden it became what it is. But you recognized you could plug in a laptop and you could have a video, you could have a conversation. But it was all just for fun. See, that's why it worked.

It worked because there was no plan. It was just like, let's do this and it would be fun. And then people tune in because it's fun. And then I start getting like Graham Hancock on and Anthony Bourdain on and getting some guests and it's kind of fun and it's kind of cool. And then it becomes a cool thing that if you know, you know, you know, know like oh you listen to a podcast check this one out yeah yeah Joe Rogan's got good guests right ask good questions and then it became what it is now but it's it's all just because I enjoy doing it it was never because I recognize like oh there's an opening out there no no I

didn't mean it like that I meant like it's very very natural that's also a part of it like it's not like you're like what can I do like no that's not that where some people do do that like hey what can be my thing oh okay X Y and Z okay I'll give speaking about events on this certain thing and okay that's my thing now because I realized there's a gap Okay, I'm going to do that. That's different. That's not moving the needle, probably for anybody in that audience, maybe for one person or something like that. And you're not looking at it like that. You're doing it because it was this very natural thing for you to do. And it happened to grow into what it is today, which is amazing, which makes it even more powerful that it was natural than you weren't this artificial guy over here saying, what's the opportunity? Oh, I can get, make X dollars by speaking about this topic to this audience. Okay, I'm going to do that and be happy or whatever. Instead, it was the opposite of that. It was very natural. And so it's a very different thing as far as opportunity. Well, that's the weirdness about today, right? It's because you could just start a YouTube channel. Like, anybody who's a doctor or a historian could just start a YouTube channel and just start talking.

Just think about all the stuff that you learned about Vietnam from writing this book. You could just break down moments like Dan Carlin style about Vietnam and just sit there and talk about it. And people would be like, that's fascinating. Jack Carr and Vietnam, you've seen this video and then it'll get passed around. Next thing you know, it's got a half a million views. Next thing you know, it's got a million. And then everybody's sharing it in social media. That's the most fascinating thing about today.

Like, if you say something cool and it becomes a part of a clip and somebody likes it, it gets blasted all over the whole world. Right. It's on TikTok. It's on X. It's on Instagram. And then it's on YouTube and like a hundred different channels. There's all these channels that pop up and they take advantage of the algorithm. Yeah.

I can't do that. I can never do something for clicks or for anything like that. I don't either. I know. I know. Other people will. You don't have to do it. That's what's interesting. The vast majority of our clips online have nothing to do with us. I didn't put them up there. I don't know who the fucking person is that's editing them and clipping them together. Some of those cuts even put their own watermark on it. Like whoever you are, cut the shit. That's not, you know? Like, oh, I got it. Do you fucking mind of a winner.com. They do that stuff and they put their own little fucking website on it But it's just it's a weird time it's a weird time for the distribution of information and Mainstream media they drop the ball they missed these openings they and they're not capable of being free Yeah, there's too many cooks in the like all the notes that you were getting on season one, right? You don't get them anymore because it's successful like that's kind of every show on television has got to deal with all these God damn cooks.

Yeah. All these chefs. Yeah. Add a little of this and add a little. Well, you can't do it. You can't do it. You can't do it. No, it's like we're talking about earlier.

Now people are trying to get that clip. So their life and their income is relying on trying to get that clip. But I think what they don't realize is that that's a blip. You know, like that's a one thing. And then it's back down, back down here. It's not a boom. And then going from there. You have to continually add value to people's lives, I think, long term,

if you're going to build something of substance. And that's what you have done, obviously. And it's incredible to watch and to be a part of from the audience side and then to, you know, be your friends and all that stuff. Fucking weird shit. I know.

But then we see that stuff like with Charlie Kirk and people trying to take advantage of that to get a click. I know. And it's so, it's brutal. And I don't know what it is going forward. Like when you think about communication in general and a long time ago, the telephone used to connect us with our grandparents,

let's say, states away, used to connect us. And now the telephone, it disconnects us from that person who's sitting right here next to us on the couch, our spouse, or our kids or anything else. So it used communication, used to connect us now, a communication device, which does obviously a lot more than that is a tracking device, surveillance device, all these other things. But it's, it disconnects us from those that we're in the same room with.

And that's a different deal. And that's why when I look at long term when we're talking about it, you always remain so hopeful about the future, and I love it. And I try to remain hopeful as well. But when you think about it in those types of terms, like this thing's not going away. And what's next? Metaglases. Okay, we got the metaglasses.

They gave me some at UFC. actually. Me too. Have you fucked them with them yet? No, because I left them under my seat. And as soon as they gave it to me, I knew I was going to leave them under that seat, they handed it to me when they came in. I'm like, I'm 100% leaving this behind.

Put it under the seat. I told them Monica, I'm like, Monica, remind me to bring these things with me. And then we just had such a great time. We totally forgot, the Chicago one. Yeah, they gave them to me as I was leaving. So I would have more sense. I grabbed them. I'm like, thank you very much, and I have them.

Have you done it? Have you put them on? I put them on when they were here. I haven't done the new ones. But I've done several versions. I've tried them. They're pretty fucking incredible. I'm not wearing them.

But we've had to stop people from wearing them at the comedy club. They try film things with meta glasses on. Oh, no way. Interesting. All glasses have to go in the pouch, just like the phones last night. Everybody who works there knows what a meta-glasses. Right, right. But now they do.

But then what happens five years from now when you can put them in anything? Well, it's going to be contact lenses. And then it's going to be over. And then it's going to be in the brain, some sort of implant. Yeah, there'll be some sort of a hard drive that you go by. Yeah. Nope. Not for me. Yeah. No, not for me either, but we're the last. We're the last of the regular people. Because it's going to be normal now going forward.

Yeah, it's going to be a cyborg nation. Yeah. I like how you're hopeful. You were hopeful earlier. No, I am still hopeful. I mean, I hope it works out well, but it's change is inevitable, and our change is technologically driven, and it's an integration. Yeah. The integration between this incredible technology that's available now to everybody through the, AI platforms and then your phone and then your biology like this many people are wearing them Apple watches and they're getting text messages and emails and making phone calls on their watch I know it's awful I judge someone immediately when I see an Apple watch unless it's for health reasons but I see someone with Apple Watch

I immediately judge but that's the same thing using the watch to tell a story about the person or a gear whatever it might be 1911 night 45 the new staccato that tells me something about that person you know what kind of hat they wear belt they wear leather set up Keita Kitek set up like all those things Solomon Shoes versus, you know, whatever. Oakley's versus Gators, like all those things tell me something about a person. But I immediately judge. I make judgment based on very little information, and that watch tells me something.

And then they get into the Tesla, and I'm like, oh, okay, Apple Watch Tesla, you know. And some of those things, it seem like they just have no soul. You know what I mean? The Apple Watch thing is weird because it's like, do you really need it all on your wrist? Buzzing all the time? And you have to charge it every day. And then, like, I have a garment. And it's a digital watch

It's got maps on and stuff like that But I use it when I go hunting And I can put that fucker on full charge It'll go like a month and a half And it'll charge partially because of solar I can do less than I can't I got nothing else to charge Did they give me something else to charge?

I can't do it What I like about them is Like you could sink it up to your range finder There's a bunch of different things you do You could have maps on it And if you had to get out of somewhere And you're fucked And you're in the woods

you could pull up the GPS on your watch and you could figure out where the trailhead is and you can get out you can get out. You can figure out where the road systems are and you can get out. You can just say okay I just have to go due north for six miles

and I'm gonna hit a road. Like that can save your life. Like if you're in the middle of the woods you don't know what the fuck is going on and something happens and you're like okay we have to get out of here we can't go back the way we came how do I get to some form of civilization

in a reasonable amount of time. I'm a map and compass guy. That's great. Map compass, the, yeah, the Waltham compass. I put that in the, it's in the book right here. The Vietnam guys had them on their, on their segos. Yeah, yeah. Those are awesome.

So I had one of those near me as I was writing the book as well. And we put one into the show, Dark Wolf, the guys are on the fire in the first episode. Jared's there, and Pratt's there, and Taylor's there, and Taylor's there, and Tom Hopper's there on this fire. And that scene, I think, is one of the best ones. And Tom gets a gift from Reese from Chris Brad, and he opens it, and it's that, that wrist compass for Vietnam. That's really cool. And that scene was really cool to see Jared in particular. buddy from the SEAL teams who gives Chris the book now he's an actor he's a executive producer a writer

wrote an episode and technical advising four things on that show that's awesome got to act a lot more in this one and it's so so cool I hope nobody's poaches him away from us you so good and that's in all of those things so got to keep close hold on Jared he's so fantastic in it but but that's seen in particular I think a lot of people who are in Iraq and Afghanistan that spent time around the fire or any any warriors who spent time around a fire or hunters that spent time around a fire will identify with that scene, the sharing of stories between hunters and warriors. And that was a powerful scene to fill them. And we did that early on.

That was the first week of filming. It was pretty cool. That's awesome. Most people don't know how to use a compass at all. See me, I'd do well with the compass in the map, but not so good with the garment. I'd be like, where's my... Have you ever figured out a way to use your watch as a compass? I know there's a thing that you can do, but I don't know how to do that.

Because they have, like, dials that, like, so it looks like a diver dial, but it's north, southeast, west. I think you have to wait on the shadow or something. You can do that with a stick in the ground also, the whole thing. Right. There's like a whole process to figuring out, excuse me, where east, northwest, east. And then somehow, I don't know that you use your watch. Yeah, no, there's something like that. But, yeah, map compass, the sun across the sky, where it is, time of day, like all these things. Yeah, but all these things, right?

Well, in the world, hope. Rises in the east, that's in the west. But when you're looking at your watch, there's some sort of way to figure out where everything is. I don't get it. Yeah, I think there was on, what was it, the Wild, what was the Bear Grill show? I think he talked about it in one of those, those whole shows. Yeah, I watched a whole YouTube video on, I'm like, I don't get it. I still don't get it.

But there's some, you know, everybody has a compass on their phone now, too. I know, and then that thing dies. I don't know, I can't plug anything in. But did you get out hunting this year? What's that? Did you get hunting this year? Yeah, yeah. Did you get to Utah?

Nice. I think I remember when you were there, and I was in Morocco, I think. The last couple months, I've just been totally on the road, which has been great. I was there the week of the 15th. Oh, okay. Right after. Okay. It was great. We caught it right in the rut. Nice. That was in Morocco. Yeah. But it was good time. Yeah, we had a good time. Yeah, it was awesome. It was awesome. It was beautiful. I've been out in a while. Then been to Lanai, done that just because it's an easy, you know, flat out there. Say the four seasons, the family loves it and all with the kids. So for me when I go out now, it's all about the kids and getting them out there on the rifle. Well, rifle hunting in Lanai is infinitely more effective. Yes. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Bow hunting in Lanai is really hard. And it seems. It's crazy because there's so many animals, but the success rate is really low.

Yeah, especially those winds and swirling and everything like that. But if you're on the timeline and you get back to Nobu in time for dinner, then you use that rifle. Yeah, also it's the best way to get the meat, and that's the best meat, like right up there with elk almost. Yeah, yeah. It's just like slightly less desirable to me than elk. Is it? Yeah. Axis deer is really good.

So good. It's delicious. And that's one of the cool things about if you stay on the Nye, which is, there's two four seasons there, and the four seasons that's on the water is incredible. But they have these Axis burger sliders. Oh, yeah. Clers and Noges. Not bad. Not bad.

Not bad. Oh. And the Carpaccio there. I've had everything there. It's frigging great. Yeah, it's great. But it's, what a weird place where you can hunt deer during the day and then stay at the four seasons. Not bad.

The other one's a sense spa now up top, so they switched it up. And so it's this crazy. Yeah, it's this crazy high-end spa. in the old four seasons one that used to look like a hunting lodge type of a thing right so that's a sunset spa now but uh yeah it's a good time so that's the only hunting i've been doing the last couple years now well you're part of the pineapple brothers right like you're one of the organization that runs the yeah i mean john duthing out there yeah aleck out there who's they have a lot of people come out there every year yeah it's pretty packed yeah pretty booked yeah pretty booked all year

because the family gets to go it's very unique in that respect sure and it's also yeah it's also like such a there's first of all you have to hunt them yeah yeah there's 30,000 deer on an island with 3,000 people. That is so crazy. And if you see them at night in particular, can you shine a headlight out to the field? You're like, there's no way this is sustainable. It's not. So they literally

have to hunt them. And hunting is such a big part of the Hawaiian culture, too. People don't realize that. They think of the beaches and everything else don't realize how big part of the culture that really is. That's where the Lua'all's all about, right? It's wild pig hunting. They're not using farm-raised pigs. Maybe now they might be.

Some places. Yeah, I'm sure. resorts using that, but for the traditional way, it was like you're hunting pigs. Yeah. And those pigs were brought over by sailors. That's how they got on that island in the first place. Well, the Axis came over from India, so it's all coming over from someplace. But it's nice. There's no snakes, too. That's true. That is nice.

And there's nothing that's an animal that can kill you on land. That's pretty good. Different than Australia. But in the water. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hence why you don't surf. It gets a little squirrely.

Yeah. It gets a little squirrely out there with them tiger sharks. Yeah, 100% chance of not getting eaten by a shark If you don't go in the water Yeah, fuck all that, dude Same thing with skydiving Like I'm done with the skydiving No more, no more of that

Yeah, that seems unnecessary at this point Stop Tom Cruise Exactly, Tom Cruise, we need to cut the shit You did it ready Yeah, yeah, we can do it on the green screen now Come on. Enough, buddy, enough! Yeah, so no more of that sort of thing

As fun as it was, the flying around was always fun But the jumping, yeah, the flying around great And then when you have to go to pole through that sequence. It's like that's when that's the moment of truth. And if you know this doesn't work, then there are procedures you need to go through in order to get this secondary you know, get the backup shoot going. Nightmare.

Yeah, no, no. Not good. No, no, I'm good. But I'll go in the water though. I'll still go in the water with the sharks, but not a bunch of out of the planes. But yeah, we were down in Nicaragua last, a few months ago, the kids were surfing and all that stuff. But I'm thinking about sharks the whole time. You know Adam Green Tree? Yeah, I don't know personally about any

this. Adam told me that, I'm sorry if I told this story. yesterday, folks, but Adam Spearfishes. He said that the sharks have learned the sound of the speargun going off. And so somebody gave him flippers that had scales on them, because they thought it was cool to give him flippers, and these

bull sharks showed up after he shot a fish, and they bit his fucking flippers off. Stop. Yes. Because the flippers had scales on him. Well, don't use those anymore. Yeah, fuck all that. I'm like, why did you? He goes, I was thinking about it, Mike, this isn't good. I'm like, yeah, it's not good. It's not

good. He goes, then they bit him off me feet. Yeah. Like, oh, my God. Have you seen the lady that swims with the sharks? Have those popped up on your YouTube? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like, I mean, I hate to say it, but like the grizzly guy, what happened to the grizzly guy?

Well, I think she knows what she's doing, and I think it's a little different because sharks don't target people. Most of the times when they're killing people, it's an accident because they think the people's a seal. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe, right? I don't know. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, there's that, like, the Sea World, one member of the Sea World thing, like took that lady down.

Yeah, but that's. That's different. They don't ever do that in the wild. Orcas in the wild don't kill people. They only kill people when people fuck with them. That's all it is. One of the things that's been happening lately is they've been sinking boats. I saw those videos.

That's crazy. Yeah, they decide fuck you and start sinking boats. That's amazing. And that's something that we haven't seen before, right? No, it's very new. It's like within this decade. It's a very recent thing. And it's one particular part of the world where it seems to be occurring over and over again.

And I don't know what happened. Like, maybe somebody fuck with a killer whale. Like, maybe somebody did something terrible. Maybe. And then that sonar, whatever, how they talk, goes out. Where is it where they're attacking killer whales? Because, like, you're talking about evil and wealthy people, and we're getting into that thing. You know what I mean?

Like, and they're attacking yachts? You know what I'm saying? Like, how many cunts are on a yacht? They're like, let's shoot the killer whale. And they're firing rifles at killer whales. Maybe, and they're like, oh, yeah. How about some of this action? I bet there's some shitheads out there.

The boat roaming orcas. Oh, there's a new theory. about why orcas are targeting sailboats in the Iberian Peninsula. They're using them to practice hunting their favorite food. I don't like your theory. I think your theory sucks. I bet somebody was an asshole.

I bet someone killed one of those orcas. Would you go down with the shark cage off of like cake down? No, fucking way. No, I did do one thing with my family once a long time ago. We did, we not scuba dive, but snorkeled. Yeah. We snorkeled with dolphins. Okay. That was pretty badass. Yeah. So you find a pot of dolphins Okay. And then you jump overboard and you can get, you know, within like 50, 60 yards of them and they're swimming around. It's kind of cool. It seems swimming underwater and shit. It's pretty badass. Yeah. That was cool. But they're not interested in you. They're like get out of here. Yeah. But if you're on a boat, they are interested in you. It's interesting. Like when maybe it was just the, the circumstance that we had, maybe sometimes they come and play with you. But I've been on boats before where they come right up next to the boat and they jump. and they're put on a show for you.

Like, as the boat is moving its way through the water, they're flipping and they're looking at you. They're, like, looking at you, and they come out of the water. Yeah. And it's really clear that they're kind of playful. Right. And they're interacting with people. Right.

Different than the sharks that come into the shark cage and just crunch it. You see the one with the guy. I would have done that a long time ago. I don't know if I'd do it now. Oh, the one guy with the shark went right in. Yeah. I mean, come on. This is an updated article from last month about the same group of...

Yeah. Jaws came out again. It was like a 50th anniversary or something. So I saw it in the theater with my son, and it was pretty cool to see in the theater. Okay, here it is. While some initial report suggested that the Iberian orcas could be carrying out revenge against the ships, this has been dismissed by many orca experts. Why?

The encounters often involve young orcas going straight for the rudders. Scientists have suggested that orcas are likely just bored teenagers with more free time since Atlantic bluefin tuna populations. Their favorite prey in the region recovered. meaning they need to spend less time hunting. What is it, say, click on dismissed by many orca experts. Click on that link. I want to find out why they think it's dismissed. Like, what's their rationalization?

Oh, wow. Open letter to regarding Iberian orcas and their interactions with boats. Undersigned our experts in biology and behavior of cetaceans with several specializing in orcas, also known as killer whales. There's been intense public interest in interactions between orcas as the Iberian orcas and marine vessels along the coast of the Iberian Peninsula

and in neighboring waters, we are concerned that factual errors regarding these interactions are being repeated in the media along with a narrative, lacking a basis in science or reality that the animals are aggressively attacking vessels or seeking revenge against mariners. Well, first of all, stop right there. They are aggressively attacking vessels. I watched it. There's a video you can watch it. These people are on the boat and it starts slashing.

in the boat and it sinks the boat. Like, what is, that's... The guys, the people are freaking out on that boat, too. Of course you will. I think it's probably people are... Oh, the whales have shown a wide range of behaviors during the interactions, many of them consistent with playful social behavior.

Yeah, because they're having a good time sinking these boats. Like, you just... I don't know. People in their fucking narratives. All I'm saying is the grizzly guy gets eaten by the grizzly, the rattlesnake guy gets bit by the rattlesnake. The shark person, I mean, I just...

I worry. It could certainly happen. Right. It certainly could happen. The grizzly guy, though, I think that was super. suicide by bear oh yeah did you watch that documentary no i just heard about it so many times i feel like i've seen it it's a fun documentary yeah it's Werner Herzog right he's brilliant and he turns into a comedy it is kind of a comedy it's like an unintentional comedy about a guy

who's really fucking stupid and hangs out with bears way too long yeah eventually gets eaten man I went up there in Alaska going up the rivers uh bear hunting and uh I mean you're walking right by him it is insane just looking for the right one and uh someone's what an old one it's crazy how close you you get and how comfortable the guides are working their way up these river systems off of both staying on a boat you go in and then you work your way up to the day and come back and um but it was it was wild to be so close i'm like i'm very nervous because you always hear about don't get between the mom and the cubs type thing and you're walking right by them you're like okay you know here we go and they're so big yeah yeah the 375 for uh for that one

it's iron sight 375 iron sights yeah yeah how come uh just because it's going to be close oh Oh, Jesus. Yeah, fog. Yeah. Yeah, fog. I don't want to worry about, like, the condensation on the, you're right down there. How close was the shot? It's very wet out there, right?

I didn't take one, but we had one. Yeah, very wet. Yeah, everything's just soaking wet. And it's just fog, mist, the whole thing. So the only one we had, we had a charge. And I think I told you that I can't remember. Had a charge, and the guy came in, he was a little young. She was like my guy said, it was a female guy.

She's amazing. She said, he's legal. And I'm like, that's not what you want to hear. You know, you want something that's really. old and you want to be contributing to this, you know, conservation. He's young, you know, I didn't want to do that. Yeah, legal's not a word you want to hear when you're hunting. No, no. And that, but it was curious also. So it was young. So it's curious. So I kept coming in, kept coming in. And she's

yelling at it and I'm just right there just on the trigger. Like I'm ready to go. And it's coming, it coming. And then it gets close and it stops and it starts doing that like going back and forth type thing. And it's pretty close. I had most of it on video. And then I didn't want to be the guy that has the phone out and gets eaten. And, uh, and so I like, so I put it down so you can so he gets close and then he put it down so you can still hear it because it's still running so I still have the video you can hear and he goes like this and he starts to charge and he veers the other way though he veers off and she goes she goes she goes she's yelling at him and she says shoot and I start to press the trigger and she goes no no no no like in the same

sentence like there's no because he veered off because he veered off wow he looked like he was going to come and it was so close I was like oh okay that's all right yeah so uh then we made our way back out and didn't get couldn't get one on that trip but it was beautiful up there It was beautiful. I love it up there. It's the last frontier, for real. I'd go up there. I'd go live up there. Would you? Yeah, yeah. My wife wouldn't, so I think we'll stay in Park City.

But I'd go up there for sure. It's a crazy place. It's Park City on steroids. It's, well, without. I mean, not Park City, but like the Utah Mountains. Yeah. I mean, it is so vast. I love it. I love it. When you're up there, the feeling of insignificance, when you realize, like, oh, there's just us.

There's no people anywhere near us. For a long time, for like a few hours in a plane. Yep, that's what we did. When the Rangel Mountains, my last trip, I think it was my last trip up there. Did you guys see wolves? Yeah, got a wolf, got a bear, got a moose, all in one trip. It was crazy. Wow.

Yeah, big ones of everything, too. It was crazy. Moose is awesome because you could eat that sucker for a whole year. Yeah, we gave much of it to the guides and their families and all that stuff because there's so much to, you know, to take back. Oh, yeah. But, yeah, that was John Dubin and Frank LaCron, who were also in Pineville. brothers but we went up there just to us and a guide two guides that know what they're doing up there

and uh did you guys fly in like a push plane push plane and into camp one night and then getting on the horses and then going up into the mountains with the horses and then make camp there and then push out from that every day wow it was fantastic yeah it was beautiful that was beautiful it was 22 right i think oh sure i mean everything's so vast and i love alaska i was trying my plan was to go to alaska and africa like back to every other year and then uh that didn't happen well it's the only place in this country at this point where you can hunt grizzlies and they really need to do something about that and some of these other states

where they're talking about opening it up because they are not scared of people anymore and the interactions are getting more and more frequent and they're not doing anything to curb the populations and that's the thing we're talking about with Lanai and people that are not involved in hunting and don't understand the conservation aspect of it you can't just have an unchecked population of animals

including predators you know and they you know all these fucking people are voting with their heart instead of like letting wildlife biologists say no no this is actually bad for the animals for the overall population of them and it's also going to be bad for people and yeah I mean animals and people collide of the mountain lions in California of course preposterous yeah and uh It's a posture. Utah's changed their loss. Utah is it like, they're like coyotes now. Oh, is that right? I didn't even know that.

Yeah, well, there's too many interactions. Yeah, I got a big one a couple years. One came on our, they've adjusted. Our neighbors, game cam, huge one came through, which is good because well-fed. And that's the one when they get skinny and, you know, get like a little dicey. Huge one came through right around Thanksgiving when all the family's in town and we're up in the mountains right there, pretty remote and everybody's there. The kids are there. So I'm kind of like, oh, man.

And I'm sure they've seen me a ton of times. And I've never seen that. They've probably been watching you. I can get my game cams up. I've got to get those game cams up. I have a bunch of them might just need to figure out how to link them all up. I need someone to help me to link them all up and the Wi-Fi and the whole thing. Well, they can set up with cell phones now.

Yeah, exactly. That's what's cool. So you get text messages every time something walks through your camera. Yeah, I need to do that. I put the about 25 different 3D targets up. The Archery Challenge guys came up. So I have a course that I can walk that I don't usually do. That's great, though.

That's great to just have in the backyard. That's awesome. That's awesome. But I want to get some game camps on them to see what the interaction is because the moose come through. The elk come through, the mule deer come through, and I want to see those interactions. We're about 200 turkeys, it seems, probably more like 100 or 50,

but a lot come through every day. So I do love it up there. And you know if someone's up there, that you know if there shouldn't be there. Right. And it was crazy. So we're after Charlie Kirk, remember the only thing we had

was that this guy was in black, right? So everybody's on, I'm on edge. I'm, like, devastated by this thing. I'm, like, really feeling it. I met him once, didn't know him, but we have mutual friends who were very close to him. So, anyway, I was just devastated by this thing. And the kids saw it, so I'm devastated by that.

It's just, you know, it's awful all the way around. And there's a knock at our door. And I'm like, and this is like, this is like the next day. And I'm like, no one's supposed to be here. Our gate was busted. So we're getting a whole new security system, but the gate was busted then. And it's being fixed now. So I'm like, oh, what is this?

And I can look out from a price where no one can see me. And it's this guy in all black. Oh. I knew it wasn't, in my mind, I knew this isn't the person. but you're hearing that's the only description this guy is head to toe black up in the mountains where I've never seen him before

you have to work to get up to us but his car was semi nice parked at us I'm like what is this? I feel like an Audi or something I'm like this is weird and he was overweight he clearly didn't fit the description but all black so I'm like on edge

already and so I grabbed the pistol and go down to the door and his back's to the door so you can't see his face so I'm like what so I had the pistol behind my back a little 226 behind my back because I can do

some work with that thing. And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, oh, we're doing some work around the corner with some cement. Do you need any work with cement around here? I'm like, no. Like, you should have pretty nice to people. But I was, I was like, and he's, oh, okay, walks from him. You can't just walk up people around here like that without an appointment. Clearly, the gate is meant to keep people out. Right. And you come up all dressed in black the day after this thing happens, and you randomly knock on a door. And then you turn your back to the door. And you have. your back to the door. That's so weird.

Bizarre. Do you know who the guy is? No, I was just like, I mean, he was doing some work on one of the other places. You want to know if you need cement? He needed to need some cement. Isn't that odd? But in my mind, I'm like, well, I was just casing for something. Did you wonder if maybe he was like a stalker fan that found where you are and that was his excuse?

I didn't think about that. I was more thinking about just the description of the Charlie Kirk person. That's what I would think immediately. It'd be like, oh, you have cement? Yeah. Yeah. Why do you have extra cement, dude? Bizarre.

You knocking on people's doors asking if they need cement? And I think it was really somebody hustling, like trying to do some work. Sure. Yeah, man type stuff, whatever, but that was crazy. One other person came up to the house

when they shouldn't have, and that was like, it was very strange. And anyway, if you're in the mountains and someone visits you. Especially in the middle of the night. But this other one was in the middle of the night. The middle of the night. The middle of the night.

Like, how late? Like midnight. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. And so that one, I put the AR by the door, had the pistol, and went over there. It ends up there looking for another house up there, but it was very bizarre. Yeah, it's late. Late in a storm coming down.

Yeah, coming down. So you're like, was this one of those things where you open the door and the other guys rush in? Right. Type of thing is it was a lady. Stumbling down through the snow with what I thought was a headlamp ended up being her phone. I saw a video like that online where this lady knocked on the door and a bunch of dudes came. Exactly. Yeah.

Exactly. So anyway, yeah. So working on the new security system. Yeah. Get some, uh, but it's, it's, if you come knocking on the door, it's, uh, you shouldn't be there. If we'll need to have a little more common sense. Yeah. You're going to get, you know.

Isn't it terrible though that you have to think like that? Like someone could just have a car broken down and just need help. I know. You have to be on edge completely. Yeah. And if that was the case, of course, I'd go up, but then you're still thinking like, oh, you're just going to get me out of the house. Exactly. Yeah.

Maybe someone's waiting to get you out of the house and then other people run in. Yeah. Yeah. So it's got to be smart. Maybe call. Hey, why you call from authorities up here and we'll just wait, you know? Let's just sit right here until they get here and they can help you with your car or whatever it was. But yeah. So trying to get a little better with the security type things. Yeah, there's something about the woods and the mountains alone when you're by yourself that you worry about people coming to visit you anyway. You worry about people just showing up. Right. It's not normal. No. And if you're a person that just shows up, you have to recognize that. That's a very vulnerable position. Right. By yourself in a house in the woods or with your family in a house in the woods and you just show up while it's snowing. Yeah. This is the beginning of a movie. Right.

It's a horrible movie. Exactly. Yeah. So, and when we lived in town, people did come by and kind of expect it. You live in town. There's no rural security, whatever, you know, it's kind of like more expected. That's a little more normal. Yeah.

When you're way up there, and especially on the guy dressed in black was weird. Like when it gets darker, like when you're rather in the woods and it gets darker and then people show up, those people immediately seem. like danger. A suspect. Yeah. Especially in the woods. Yeah. I mean, that's the old instinct that kept us alive for so long.

Like, I need to be on edge here. Exactly. Until who is his friend or foe. Yeah. That's another thing. Until you know. Someone's aiding tribe member. Exactly.

Until you absolutely know you're going to err on the side of caution and protecting your life and the lives of your loved ones. Well, listen, brother. Yeah, man. I'm very excited about this book. I want to get into it. Is the audio available right now? Audio available, Ray Porter.

That's out right now. And, yeah, audio, ebook, hard. cover. I like how you went back to James Reese's dad too. Oh, there it is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And we're pitching this to Amazon here, I think, in the next month or so as a series. So you never know if it's going to happen or not, but that'd be a cool one. I think people are ready for a, another Vietnam-style TV show or a movie. It's been a while. It's been a while since we've had a good one. At the very least book, I'm excited. Yeah. And this one was, essentially, it's an espionage thriller set in, uh, in Saigon, but set in Southeast Asia.

more specifically. And no one's really done that since quite American Graham Green Tears of Autumn and Graham Green was 1955 and Tears of Autumn was

1974 and John Le Corre was the Honorable School boy in 1977 so it's been a it's been a while. Cry havoc available right now

congratulations on everything brother I'm very very happy for you so great to see you this is awesome to see you killing them out there

thank you appreciate everything my pleasure bye everybody take care Thank you.