The Joe Rogan Experience - #2404 - Elon Musk

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

Elon Musk is a business magnate, designer, and engineer known for his work in electric vehicles, private spaceflight, and artificial intelligence. His portfolio of companies includes Tesla, SpaceX, Neuralink, X, and several others.https://x.com/elonmusk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast checking out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night All day Exactly Just every morning What are Jeff Bellas is going You're definitely doing some

Testosterone He looks jacked right Yeah but he's like Quick Quick Quick Yeah You got jack quick

At age 59 in less than a year, he went from pencil net geek to looking like a miniature, like the rock. Yeah, like a little miniature alpha fella. Yeah, like his neck got bigger than his head. Yeah, he got big, quick. But then, like, his earlier pictures, his neck's like a noodle. I support this activity. I'll like to see him going in this direction. Which is fine, and his voice dropped like two octaves.

I want you to move in that direction as well. I think we can achieve this. I mean, I should. I think we can achieve gig a chat. That's what people called it Where is that guy? People? I don't know where he is.

That's like a real guy. The artist? Yeah. Oh, dig it Chad. Oh, dig it Chad. Yeah, I don't know if that's a real guy. It's hard to tell. No, no, it is a real guy.

It is a real guy? He's got the crazy jaw and, like, perfect sculpted hair. Yeah. Well, I mean, they may have exaggerated a little bit, but... Probably. But, no, I think he actually just kind of looked like that in reality. Wow. So, like, he's a pretty unique.

A weak-looking individual. I think we can achieve this. That guy right there? That's a real guy? That's a real dude. I always thought that was CGI. No, I think one of the, I think the upper right one is not him. That's not him.

Like, that one to the left of that? Like, that's real? No, that's, that's artificial, bro. That's fake. That's got that uncanny valley feel to it, doesn't it? It's not impossible. No. No, it's not possible to achieve.

But it's not possible to maintain that kind of leanness. No, no. I mean, that's like, like, you're also, at that point, you're, they're, there, he's dehydrating and all sorts of things. Oh, it's based on a real purse. Yeah, yeah, based on. Right, but it's not a real person. What does he really look like?

Like, those images, I think, are bullshit. Some of them are, is that real? Okay, that looks real. That looks real. That looks a really jacked bodybuilder. Yeah. Yeah, that looks real. Like, that's achievable, but there's a few of those images where you're just like, what's going on here?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Well, I mean, you see, you see it? that guy is that the that's the real dude well there's that that that Icelandic dude who's

oh yeah the guy who jumps in the frozen lakes and shit well the guy who played the mountain oh that guy that is like a that is like a

mutant strong human yes like he'd be in like the X men or something you know we were hanging out he's just like not like

and and there's that you know that I've seen that meme tent and tent bag you know how like It's like, it's really hard to get the tent and tent in the day. Oh, right, right.

That's true. Then there's a picture of him and his girlfriend. Oh, right. That's hilarious. Yeah, that's his wife. I don't know how it gets in there, you know. It's like, it seems too small, but. I met Brian Shaw.

Brian Shaw is like the world's most powerful man. Yeah. And he's almost seven feet tall. He's 400 pounds. and his bone density is one in 500 million people so there's one

it's like there's like maybe 16 people he's an enormous human being like a legitimate giant just like that guy but we met him he was hanging out with us in the green room of the mothership

but it's like okay if this is like David and Goliath days like this is an actual giant like the giants of the Bible once in a while they get a super giant person this is a real a real one like not a tall skinny basketball player. Yeah, yeah. Like a 7 foot

400 pound power lifter. Like you don't want to, especially... That's the guy. See if there's a photo of him standing next to like a regular human. There it is. Yeah. That's him right there. Like there's like one of him with next to standing as to Arnold and stuff. Yeah. It's where everyone just looks tiny.

I mean, I think he's pretty cool dude actually. Oh, Brian's very cool. Very smart too. Unusually, you know, you expect anybody to be that big. It's got to be a moron. Yeah. No. Yeah. There was Andre the Giant who was awesome Yeah

He was great in Princess Bride No he was just awesome period Yeah yeah So we were talking about This interview with Sam Altman and Tucker And I was like we should probably just talk about this on the air Because it is one of the craziest interviews I think I've ever seen in my life

Yeah Where Tucker starts bringing up this guy who was Whistleblower or whatever Whistleblower who you know committed suicide but doesn't look like it. And he's talking to Sam Altlin about this and Sam Alton was like, are you accusing me?

He's like, no, no, no. I'm not. I'm just saying. I think someone killed him. Yeah. And it should be investigated. Yeah. Not just dropped the case. It seems like... They just dropped the case. Yeah. Yeah. But his parents think he was

murdered. Yeah. The wires to a security camera were cut. Blood in two rooms. Blood in two rooms. Someone else's wig was in the room. Someone else's wig. Whig. Whig. Yes.

Not normal. Not normal. Not normal to have a wig laying around. Yes. And he ordered DoorDash right before allegedly committing suicide. Yeah. Which is, it seems unusual. You know.

Yeah. It's like, you know, let's, I'm going to order pizza on second thoughts I'll kill myself. It seems like that's a very rapid change in mindset. It's very weird. And especially the parents have, they don't believe he committed suicide at all. Has no note or anything. No. It seems pretty fucked up.

And, you know, the idea that a whistleblower for an enormous AI company that's worth billions of dollars might get whacked, that's not outside the pale. I mean, it's straight out of a movie. Right out of a movie. But right of a movie is real sometimes. Yeah, right. Exactly. Right? It's a little weird that I think they should do a proper investigation.

Like, what's the downside on that proper investigation? Right. No. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But the whole exchange is so bizarre. Yeah, yeah.

It's Sam Altman's reaction to being accused of murder is bizarre. Look, I don't know if he is guilty, but it's not possible to look more guilty. So I'm like... Or look more weird. Yeah. You know, maybe it's just his social thing. Like maybe he's just odd with confrontation and it just goes blank, you know? But if somebody was accusing me of killing him.

killing Jamie. Like if Jamie was a whistleblower and Jamie got whacked and then I'd be like, wait, what do you, what do you say? Are you accusing me at killing my friend? Like, what the fuck are you talking about? I would, I would be a little bit more irate. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, it would be a little upset. Yeah, it'd be like, well, you'd be, like, you'd certainly insist on a thorough investigation. Yeah. As opposed to trying to sweep it under the rug. Yeah, I wouldn't assume that he got, that he committed suicide. I would be suspicious. If, if Tucker was. telling me that aspect of the story, I'd be like, that does seem like a murder. Fuck, we should look into this. I mean, all signs point to it being a murder. Not saying, you know, Sam Alvin had anything to do with the murder, but... Blood in two rooms. But blood in two rooms. Like, yeah, the wires the security camera and the door dash being ordered right before suicide.

No suicide note. His parents think he was murdered, and the people that I know who knew him said he was not suicidal. So I'm like, this... Why would you jump to the conclusion? Parents have sued the landlord. They sue the son's landlord, alleged the owners and the managers of their son's San Francisco apartment building were part of a widespread cover-up of his death. The landlord?

Yeah, there's a bunch of weird. They said there was, like, packages missing from the building. Some people said they saw packages still being delivered, and then all of a sudden they all disappeared. Huh. But that could be people steal people's packages all the time. The porch pirate situation. Yeah.

Yeah. It says they failed to safeguard. Also, I mean, the amount of trauma, those poor parents have. gone through with their son dying like that. I mean, it must, God bless them. And how could they stay sane after something like that? They're probably, they're so grief-stricken. Who knows what? Hey, Canada. Data brokers are invading your privacy. They're recording everything you do online. And if you live in the U.S., they're selling your information to anyone and everyone who's willing to buy it. But thankfully, there's a way to stop all the tracking and spying. And that's with

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They believe at this point. Yeah. I should have asked if Epston killed himself. Duh. Yeah. That's the Cash Patel thing with Cash Patel and Dan Bonjino. Where's the camera? Where's the camera?

And they were trying to convince everybody of that. Like, okay. The guards weren't there and the camera stopped working. And, you know. The guards were asleep. The cameras weren't working. He had a giant steroid-ed-up bodybuilder guy that he was sharing a cell with that was a murderer who was a bad cop

Like all of it's kind of nuts All of it's kind of nuts Like that he would just kill himself rather than reveal all of his billionaire friends Yeah And then Did you see Tim Dillon talking to Chris Cuomo about this? I did Chris Cuomo just looked so stupid

Tim just listed off all those And he's like I agree it is strange. Like, of course it's strange, Chris. Jesus Christ. You can't just go with the tide. You've got to think things through. And if you think that one through, you're like, I don't think he killed himself. Nobody does. You'd have to work for an intelligence agency to think he killed himself. It does seem unlikely.

It seems highly unlikely. Highly, highly, highly unlikely. All roads point to murder. Yes. Point two, they had to get rid of him because he knew too much. Whatever the fuck he was doing Whatever kind of an asset he was Whatever thing he was up to You know It was apparently very effective

Yes And a lot of people were compromised You see Your boy Bill Gates is now saying Climate Change is not a big deal It's like relax everybody I know I scared the fuck out of you For the last decade and a half

But eh we're gonna be fine Yeah I mean You know As I was saying Just before coming at the studio with, you know, like every day there's some crazy, wild new thing that's happening. It feels like reality's accelerating.

It's every day, and every day it's like more and more ridiculous to the point where the simulation is more and more undeniable. Yeah, yeah. It really feels like simulation, you know, it's like, come on, what are the odds that this could be the case? Are you paying attention at all, the three-eye Atlas? Are you watching? Oh, there's the comet?

Yeah, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, one thing I can say is like, look, I, if I was aware of any evidence of aliens, Joe, you have my word, I will come on your show, and I will reveal it on the show. Okay. Yeah. That's a good deal. Yeah, it's pretty good deal. I believe you.

Yeah, thank you. Appreciate that. I'll stick to, you know, keep my promises. All right. I'll hold you to that. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. And I'm never committing suicide, to be clear.

I don't think you would either. Also, on camera, guys. I am never committing suicide ever. If someone says you committed suicide, I will fight tooth and nail. Thank you. I will fight tooth and nail. I will not believe it. I will not believe it.

The thing about the three-eye Atlas is... That's a hell of a name, actually. Yeah, it's a third... It sounds like third eye or something. Yeah, it does. Three-Eye is a third... It's only the third interstellar object that's detected. Okay.

Yeah. Avi Load... Yeah. Avi Loeb was on the podcast a couple days ago. talking about it. Yeah. It could be on these. I don't know.

Apparently, today they're saying that it's changed course. Did you see that, Jamie? No. Avi Loeb said something today. I'll send it to you. I know it's on Reddit. Here you go, Jamie. I'll set it to it right now.

It's fascinating. It's fascinating also because it's made almost entirely of nickel, whatever it is. And the only way that exists, here is industrial alloys, apparently. No, there are, there are, there are definitely comets that, and asteroids that are made primarily of nickel. Oh, really? Yeah, so the places where you mine nickel on Earth is actually where there was an asteroid

a comet that hit Earth that was a nickel-rich, you know, acid. Oh, wow. And it left a giant nickel-rich, rich deposit? Yeah, that's, that's, it's coming. Those are from impacts. You definitely didn't want to be there at the time because anything would have been a blow Right. Right.

But that's where the sources of nickel and cobalt are these days. So this is Avila, a few hours ago, the first hint of non-gravitational acceleration that something other than gravity is affecting its acceleration, meaning something is affecting its trajectory beyond gravity was indicated. Interesting. Dun, dun, dun, um... So it's mostly nickel, very little iron, which he was saying is on Earth. It only exists in alloys, but whatever, you know, you're dealing with another planet.

There are cases where there's very nickel-rich asteroids meteorites. That's what it is. For something from space. Yeah, it doesn't mean it's, it'll be a very sort of heavy spaceship to make it all out of nickel. Oh, yeah. And fucking huge. The size of Manhattan and all nickel, that's kind of nuts. Yeah, that's a heavy spaceship.

That's a real problem if it hits. Yes. No, it would like obliterate a continent type of thing. Yeah. Maybe it was. Well, I'll probably kill most of human life, if not all of us. I haven't, it depends on what the total mass is, but there's, I mean, the thing is, like, in the fossil record, there are, you know, there's, like, arguably five major extinction events, like the biggest one of which is the Permian extinction, where almost all life was eliminated. That, that actually occurred over several million years.

There's the Jurassic. I think Jurassic is, I think that one's pretty definitively an asteroid. And, but there's been five major extinction events. But what they don't count are really the ones that merely take out a continent. Merely? Yeah, because those don't really show up on the fossil record, you know. Right. So unless it's enough to cause a mass extinction event throughout Earth,

it doesn't show up, you know, in a fossil record that's 200 million years. old. So the, yeah, but there have been many, many impacts that would have sort of destroyed all life on, you know, let's say half of North America or something like that. There met many such impacts through the course of history. Yeah. And there's nothing we can do about it right now. Yeah, there was one that hits, there was a one that hit Siberian destroyed, I think, a few hundred square miles. Oh, that's the Tunguska. Yeah. Yeah. That's the. Yeah. That's. the one from the 1920s, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's the one that coincides with that meteor, that comets storm that we go through every June and every November that they think is responsible

for that younger, dryness impact. Yeah. Yeah. All that shit's crazy. Um, thank you before we go any further for letting us have a tour of SpaceX. Very welcome. Letting us be there for the rocket launch. Sure. One of the absolute coolest things I've ever seen in my life. And we've, we've, we've, We were, we thought it was only like, I thought it was a half a mile. Jamie is like it was a mile away. It turned out it's almost two miles away. Yeah, yeah. And you feel it in your chest.

Yeah, it's very intense. And you feel it in your chest and it's two miles away. Yeah. It was fucking amazing. And then to go with you up into the command center and to watch all the Starlink satellites with all the different cameras and all in real time as it made its way all the way to Australia. How many minutes? Like 35, 40 minutes?

Yeah. wild watch a touchdown in australia yeah fucking crazy it was amazing yeah yeah absolutely amazing the starship's awesome um and anyone can go watch the launch actually so you can just go to south padre island and get as a great view of the launch um so it's like where a lot of spring breakers go but um but we'll be flying pretty frequently um out of starvace in south texas and we're formally incorporated as a city so it's actually a legally an actual legal city star of East Texas. It's not that often you hear like, hey, we made a city, you know. That used to be like in the old days, like a startup would be you go and gather a bunch

people and say, hey, let's go make a town. Literally. That was like, that would have been startups in the old days. Or a country. Yeah, or a country. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, actually. If you tried doing that today, there'd be a real problem. Yeah, like, maybe so much, so much set in stone on the country front these things. You might be able to pull it off. You might be able to pull it off. If you got a solid island, you might be able to pull it off. You know, it's this, probably. You know, like, Larry Ellison owns Lanai. Yeah, you could probably.

Is this it right here? If you put enough effort into it, you could make a new country. This is one of the different ones. This is the one of the ones that you catch, right? Or is that one? Yeah, that's the booster. So that's the super heavy booster. So that's the one with, the booster's got 33 engines.

That, that's, you know, by version four that will have about 10,000 tons of thrust. You know, right now it's about. 7, 8,000 tons of thrust. That's the largest flying object ever made. I had to explain to someone. They were going, why do they blow up all the time if you're so smart? Because there was this fucking idiot on television. Some guy was being interviewed, and they were talking about you.

And he goes, oh, I think he's a fuckwit. And he goes, he's a fuckwit. And he goes, why say he's a fuck? Oh, his rockets keep blowing up. And someone said, yeah, well, why do his rockets? And I had to explain. Yeah. Because it's the only way you find out what the tolerances are.

You have to, a few of them have to blow up. So when you do a new rocket development program, you have to do what's called, you know, exploring the limits, the corners of the box where you say it's like you, worst case this, worst case that, to figure out where the limits are. So you blow up, you know, not, admittedly in the development process, sometimes blows up accidentally. but we intentionally subjected to, you know, a flight regime that is much worse than what we expect in normal flight so that when we put people on board or valuable cargo, it doesn't blow up. So, for example, for the flight that you saw, we actually deliberately took heat shield tiles off the ship, off of Starship, in some of the worst locations to say, okay, if we lose a heat, chill towel here, is it catastrophic or is it not? And we will, nonetheless Starship was able to do a

soft landing in, in the Indian Ocean, just west of Australia, which as, and I got there from Texas in like, I don't know, 35, 40 minutes type of thing. So it landed even though you put it through this situation where it has compromised shield. It had an, and unusually, we brought it in hot, like an extra hot trajectory with missing tiles to see if it would still make it to a soft landing, which it did. Now, I should put it, it did have, there were some holes that were burnt into it. But it was robust enough to land

despite having some holes burnt into it, you know, that, yeah. Because it's coming in like a blazing meteor. You can see the real-time video. Well, tell me the speed again, because the speed was bananas. You were talking about... Yeah, it's like 17,000 miles an hour. It's like like 25 times the speed of sound or thereabouts. So the, so the, so think about it, like, it's like 12 times faster than a bullet from an assault rifle.

You know, a bullet from a sore rifle is around Mach 2. And it's huge. Yeah. Yeah. Or compared to like a bullet from a, you know, a 45 or 9-mo, which is subsonic. That's, you know, it'll be about 30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun. 30 times faster than a bullet from a handgun, and it's the size of a skyscraper. Yes.

Yeah. That's fast. It's so wild. It's so wild to see, man. It's so exciting. The factory is so exciting, too, because, like, genuinely, no bullshit. I felt like I was witnessing history. I felt like it was a scene in a movie where someone had expectations, and they're like, what are they doing?

They're building rockets, and you go there. and as we were walking through Jamie you could speak to this too didn't you have the feeling where you're like oh this is way bigger than I thought it was this is huge is gigantic fucking crazy that's what she said

the ah the amount of rockets you're making 10 tent bag gig and Chad in the house it's a giant metal dick you're fucking the universe with your giant metal dick Yeah, it is very big.

And the sheer numbers of them that you guys are making. And then this is a version, and you have a new, updated version that's coming soon. And what is the difference? It's a little longer. More pointy? It's the same amount of pointy. But it's got a bit more length. The interstage, you see that the interstage section with kind of like the grow area?

That's now integrated with the boost stage. So we do what's called hot staging, where we light the ship engines while it's still attached to the booster. So the booster engines are still thrusting. It's still being pushed forward by the booster of the ship. But then we light the ship engines, and the ship engines actually pull away from the booster, even though the booster engines are still firing. Whoa. So it's blasting flame through that grill section, but we integrate that grill section into the boost stage with the next. version of the rocket.

And the next version of the rocket will have the Rafter three engines, which are a huge improvement. You may have seen them in the lobby because we've got like the Raptor 1, 2, and 3. And you can see the dramatic improvement in simplicity.

We should probably put a plaque there to also show how much we reduced the weight, the cost and improve the efficiency and the thrust. So the Raptor 3 has, you know, almost twice the thrust of Raptor 1. Wow.

So you see Raptor 3, it looks like it looks like it's got parts missing, right? And how many of them? It's very, very clean. How many of them are on the rocket? There's 33 on the, on the booster. Whoa. And each of each Raptor engine is producing twice as much thrust as all four engines on a 747. Wow.

So that engine is smaller than a 747 engine, but it's producing, you know, almost 10 times the thrust of a 747 engine. Wow. So extremely high power to weight ratio, and there's 33 of them. So when you're designing these, you get to Raptor 1, you see its efficiency, you see where you can improve it, you get to Raptor 2. How far can you scale this up with just the same sort of technology, with propellant and ignition and engines? Like, how much further can you? We're pushing the limits of physics here.

So, and really, in order to make a fully reusable orbital rocket, which no one has succeeded in doing yet, including us. But Starship is the first time that there is, a design for a rocket where full and rapid reusability is actually possible. So it was not, there's not even been a design before where it was possible. So you're not a design that got, made any hardware at all. We just live on a planet where the gravity is, is quite high. Like, Earth's gravity is quite, really quite high.

And if the gravity was even 10 or 20 percent high, we'd be stuck on Earth forever. Really? Yeah, we could not use, certainly couldn't use conventional rockets. You'd have to, like, blow yourself off the surface with, like, a nuclear bomb or something crazy. So, on the other hand, if Earth's gravity was just a little lower, like even 10, 20% lower, then getting to orbit would be easy.

So it's like, it's like, if this was a video game, it's set to, like, maximum difficulty, but not impossible. Okay. So that's where we have here. So it's not as though others have ignored the concept of reusability. They've just concluded that it was too difficult to achieve. And we've been working on this for a long time at SpaceX. And I'm the chief engineer of the company, although I should say that we were an extremely talented engineering team.

I think we've got the best rocket engineering team that has ever been assembled. It's an art to work with such incredible people. So it's fair to say that we have not yet succeeded in achieving full reusability, but we at last have a rocket where full reusability is possible. And I think we'll achieve it next year. So that's a really big deal. And the reason that's such a big deal is that full reusability drops the cost of access to space by a hundred. Maybe even more than 100, actually.

So it could be like a thousand. You can think about any mode of transport. Like imagine if aircraft were not reusable. Like you flew somewhere, you throw the plane out. Like, imagine, like, the way conventional rockets work, it would be like if you had an airplane, and instead of landing at your destination, you parachute out, and the plane crashes somewhere, and you landed your destination, and you land in a parachute at your destination. And that would be a very expensive trip. And you'd need another plane to get back, okay? But that's how the other rockets in the world work.

Now, the SpaceX Falcon rocket is the only one that is, that's the one that is, that's a lot. that is at least mostly reusable. You've seen the Falcon rocket, you know, land. We've now done over 500 landings of the SpaceX rocket, of the Falcon Iron rocket. And this year, you know, we'll deliver probably, I don't know, somewhere between 2,200 and 2,500 tons to orbit with the Falcon-heavy rockets,

not counting anything from Starship. And this is mostly Starlink? Yes, mostly Starlink, but we launched many other, we even launched our competitors on, competitors to Starlink on Falcon 9. We charge on the same price, pretty fair. But SpaceX this year will deliver roughly 90% of all Earth mass to orbit. Wow. And then of the remaining 10%, most of that is done by China,

and then the remaining, I know, roughly 4% is everyone else in the world, including our domestic competitors. You know, it's kind of incredible how many things are in space, like how many things are floating above us now. There's a lot of things. Yeah. Space is big, though. Right. But is there a saturation point where we're going to have problems with all these different satellites that are? I think as long as the satellites are maintained.

contained. It'll be fine. It's space is very roomy. It's like you can think of like space as being concentric shells of the surface of the earth. So, you know, there's, it's the surface of the earth, but there's a series of much larger. Yeah, it's like a series of concentric trails. And think of an airstream trailer flying around up there. There's a lot of room for air streams. Yeah. I mean, imagine, yeah, if there's just a few thousand air streams on Earth, what are the odds that they'd hit each other? They wouldn't be very crowded. No. And then you've got to go bigger. Yeah. Because you're dealing with far above Earth, hundreds of miles above Earth. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's the, but the goal of SpaceX is to get rocket technology to the point where we can

extend life beyond Earth and that we can establish a self-sustaining city on Mars, a permanent base on the moon, that would be very cool. I mean, imagine if we had like a, you know, moon-based alpha where there was like a permanent science base on the moon. That would be pretty dope. Or at least a tourist trap. I mean, a lot of people would be willing to go to the moon for just for a tour. That's for sure. To be just to look back. I could probably pay for our space program with that. Probably. Yeah. Well, because it's like if you could go to the moon with and safely, uh, I think we'd get a lot of people, uh, would, would pay for that. 100%. After the first year, after nobody died, it's probably clear. Yeah, yeah, just make sure, exactly. Are you going to come back?

Because like that submarine, they had a bunch of successful launches in that private submarine before it implode and killed everybody. That was not a good design, obviously. It was a very bad design. Terrell design. And the engineer said it would not withstand the pressure of those depths. Like, there was a lot of whistleblowers in that company, too. Yeah. They made that out of carbon fiber, which is, it doesn't make any sense because you actually need. You need to be dense to go down. In any case, you just make it out of steel. If you make it out of sort of just, you know, a big steel casting, you'll be safe and nothing like it.

Why would they make it out of carbon fiber then? Is it cheaper? I think they think carbon fiber sounds cool or something, but... It does sound cool. It sounds cool, but because it's such low density, you actually have to add extra mass to go down because it's low density. But if you just have a giant, you know, hollow bull bearing, you're going to be fine. Speaking of carbon fiber, just check out my unplugged Tesla out there.

Yeah, it's cool. Pretty sick, right? Yeah. Have you guys ever thought about doing something like that? Like having like an AMG division of Tesla where you do like custom stuff? Um, I think it's best to leave that to the custom shops. You know, we're, like Tesla's focus is autonomous cars, you know, building kind of futuristic. autonomous cars

so like I think it's we want the future to look like the future so the did like did you see like our designs for like the sort of the robotic bus it looks pretty cool

the robotic bus is also being a totally autonomous we need to figure out the good name for it like I think called the Robus or there's no good there's like what do you call this thing but it looks it looks cool it's very art deco it's like futuristic art deco

and it doesn't like I think we want to change the aesthetic over time you don't want the aesthetic to be constant over time you want to evolve the aesthetic

so like my like I have a son who's like you know he's he's like even more artistic than me and and and uh but he has these great observations

who's this? Saxon. He has these great observations in the world because he just views the world through

a different lens than most people and he is like Dad, why does the world look like it's 2015? And I'm like,

damn, the world does look like it's 2015. Like the aesthetic has not evolved since 2015. Whoa, that's

what it looks like? Yeah. Oh, wow. That's pretty cool. Oh, yeah. That's like, like you'd want to see that going down the road,

you know? Yeah. You'd be like, okay, this is, we're in the You know? It doesn't look like 2015. What is that ancient science fiction movie like one of the first science fiction movies ever? Is it Metropolis? Is that what it is? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that looks like it belongs in Metropolis. Yeah, yeah. It's a futuristic art deco. Yeah, well, that's cool that you're concentrating on the aesthetic. I mean, that's kind of the whole deal with Cybertruck, right? Like, it didn't have to look like that. No. I just wanted to have something that looked really different. Is it a pain he has for people to get it insured because it's all solid steel and? I hope it's not too much.

You know, Tesla does offer insurance, so people can always get an insured at Tesla. Well, but like, it is the form does follow function in the case of the cyber truck because as you demonstrated with your armor piercing arrow, because if you shot that arrow at a regular truck, I mean, you would go right through it. Yeah, exactly. You would have found your arrow in the wall. Yeah. You know, it would have gone to.

At the very least, it would have buried into one of the seats. Yeah, yeah. But, like, you could definitely get enough of a bow velocity and the right arrow would go through both doors of a regular truck and land on the wall. Yeah. If there was a clear shot between both doors, it probably would have passed right through. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But, you know, the arrow shattered on the cyber truck because it's ultra-hard stainless. So, and I thought it would be cool to have, you know, a truck that is bulletproof.

to a sub-sonic projectile. So, you know, especially in this day and age, you know, like if the apocalypse happens, you're going to want to have a bulletproof truck, you know. So then because it's made of ultra-hot stainless, you can't just stamp the panels. You can't just put in a stamping press because it breaks the press. So in order to actually,

so it has to be planer because it's so difficult to bend because it breaks the machine. that bends it. That's why it's so plainer. And it's not, you know, it's because it's bulletproof steel. Right. So it is like boxy as opposed to like curved and... Yeah, you just, in order to make, in order to make like the curved shapes, you take,

you take basically mild steel, like an eel, thin an eel, in a regular truck or a car, the, you You take mild thin, an eel steel, you put it in a stamping press, and it just smushes it and makes it whatever the shape you want. But the cyber truck is made of ultra-hard stainless, and so you can't stamp it because it would break the stamping press. So even bending it is hard. So even to bend it to its current position, we have to way over-bend it. and so it gets so that when it springs back it's in the right position

so it's uh i don't know like i think if you want to like i think it's it's a unique aesthetic um and you say well what's cool about a truck trucks are like should be i don't know manly they should be macho you know and bulletproof is maximum macho get us mas macho are you married to that shape now like is it can you do anything to do anything to change it? Like, as you get first, like, I know you guys updated the three and the Y. Did you update the Y as well? Yes. The three and the Y are updated. You know, there's like a, there's a screen in the back for the kids can watch, for example, in the new three and Y, so in the new Y. There's, you know, it's, there's like hundreds of improvements. Like, we keep improving the car. And even the

cyber truck, we, you know, keep improving it. But, you know, I wanted to just do something that looked unique. And the cyber truck looks unique and has unique functionality. And there was, and there were like, there were three things where I was aiming for. It's like, let's make it bulletproof. Let's make it faster than a portion 9-11. And we actually cleared the quarter mile. The cyber truck can clear a quarter mile while towing a Porsche 9-11 faster than a Porsche 9-11. It can out-toe an F-350 diesel. Really? Yes.

What is the tow limitations? I mean, we could tow like a 747 in that with a cyber truck. A cyber truck is an insanely, like, it is alien technology. Okay. Because it shouldn't be possible to be that big and that fast. It's like an elephant that runs as like a cheetah. Yeah, because it's zero-s-60 in less than three seconds, right? Yes.

Yeah, and it's enormous. What is it weigh? Like 7,000 pounds? Yeah, this is a different configurations, but it's about that. It's a beast. Yeah. It's got four-wheel steering So the rear wheel steer two

So it's got a very tight turning radius Yeah, we noticed that We drove one to Starbase Yeah, very tight turning radius Yeah, pretty sick Yeah Are you still doing the Roadster? Yes

Eventually We're getting close to Demonstrating the prototype And I think this will be one thing I can guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable. Unforgetable. How so? Whether it's good or bad, it will be unforgettable.

Can you say more? What do you mean? Well, you know, my friend Peter Thiel, you know, once reflected that the future was supposed to have flying cars, but we don't have flying cars. So you're going to be able to fly? Well, I mean, I think if Peter wants a flying car, we should be able to buy one. So are you actively considering making an electric flying car? Is this like a real thing?

Well, they have to see in the... In the demo. So when you do this, like, are you going to have a retractable wing? Like, what is the idea behind this? Don't be sly. Come on. I can't do the unveil before the unveil. But...

Tell me off air then. I think it has a shot at being the most memorable product unveil. ever and it has a shot and when you plan on doing this what's the goal uh hopefully before at the end of the year really before the end of this year this is i mean we're yeah like in a couple months hopefully in a couple months um you know we need to make sure that it works uh like this is some crazy crazy technology we got in this car crazy technology crazy crazy

so different than what was previously announced and yes and is that why you haven't released it yet because you keep fucking with it

it has crazy technology okay like is it even a car I'm not sure it's like it looks like a car let's just put this way it's it's crazier than anything James Bond

if you took all the James Bond cars and combined them, it's crazier than that. Very exciting. I don't know what to think of that. Is it even a car? I don't know. It's the limited amount of information I'm drawing from here.

Jamie's very suspicious over there. Look at it. Excited. It's still going to be the same. Well, you know what? I mean, if you want to come a little before the unveil, I can show it. 100%. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah.

it's uh it's kind of crazy all the different things that you're involved in simultaneously and you know we talked about this before your time management but i really don't understand it i don't understand how you can be paying attention to all these different things simultaneously starlink space x tesla boring company x your tweet you you fucking tweet or post rather all day long Well, it's more like I can hop in for like two minutes and then hop out, you know. But I mean, just the fact that you could do that. I can't do that. If I hop in, I start scrolling and I start looking around.

Next thing, you know, I've lost an hour. Yeah. So, no, for me, it's a couple minutes of time usually. Sometimes I guess it's half an hour, but usually I'm in for a few minutes then out of, you know, posting something on X. You know, I do sometimes feel like it's sometimes like that meme of the guy who drops the grenade and leaves the room. That's been me more than once on X. Yes. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, for sure. It's got to be fun, though. It's got to be fun to know that you essentially disrupted the entire social media chain of command. Because there was a very clear thing that was going. on with social media. Yeah, yeah. The government had infiltrated it. They were censoring speech.

And until you bought it, we really didn't know the extent of it. We kind of assumed that there was something going on. Yeah. We had no idea that they were actively involved in censoring actual real news stories, real data, real scientists, real professors, silenced, expelled, kicked off the platform. Yeah. Wild. Yeah.

Yeah. For telling the truth. For telling the truth. And I'm sure you've also, because I sent it to you, that chart. to you, that chart that shows young kids, teenagers identifying as trans and non-binary, literally

stops dead when you bought Twitter and starts falling off a cliff when people are allowed to have rational discussions now and actually talk about it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I said at the time, I think that, like, the reason for acquiring Twitter is because

it was causing destruction at a civilizational level. it was I mean I posted I tweeted on on Twitter at the time that it is

you know it's a worm tongue for the world you know like worm tongue from Lord of the Rings where he would just sort of like whisper these

you know terrible things to the king to the king would believe these things that weren't true and And unfortunately, Twitter really got, it got like the woke mob, essentially, they controlled Twitter. And they were pushing a nihilistic, anti-civilizational mind virus to the world. And you can see the results of that mind virus on the streets of San Francisco, where, you know, downtown San Francisco looks like a zombie apocalypse.

You know, it's bad. So we don't want the whole world to be a zombie apocalypse But that's That that that that that that that was Essentially they were pushing this very negative Nialistic Untrue worldview On the world and it was causing a lot of damage

So The stunning thing about it is how few people course corrected A bunch of people woke up and realized what was going on People that were all on board with like woke ideology And maybe 2015 or something 16 and then and then eventually it comes to affect them or they see it in their workplace or they see it and they're like well we've got to stop this a bunch of people did but a lot of people never course corrected yeah um a lot of a lot of people didn't course correct but um but it's gone directionally and it's it's it's directionally correct like you mentioned like the like the massive spike in in kids identifying as trans and then that that that spike dropping um after the the Twitter acquisition. I think that simply allowing the truth to be told was just shedding sunlight. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, as they say. And just allowing sunlight kills the

virus. And it also changed the benchmark for all the other platforms. You can't just openly censor people on all the other platforms and X is available. So everybody else had a, so like Facebook announced they were changing, YouTube announced they were changing their policies. Yeah. And they're kind of forced to and the blue sky doubled down well like the problem is like if uh essentially the woke mind virus retreated to work to blue sky yeah um but it's where they're just a self-reinforcing lunatic they're all just triple masked i was totally watching this in exchange on a blue sky where someone said that they're just trying to be zen about something yeah and then someone a moderator immediately chined in and so why don't you try to

Stop being racist against Asians by saying something Zen. By saying, I'm trying to be Zen about something. They were accusing that person of being racist towards Asians. Yeah, it's just everyone's a whole monitor over there. The worst hall monitor. A virgin, like, in-cell. The whole whole monitor is trying to rat on each other. Yeah.

It's fascinating. And then people say, I'm leaving for blue sky like Stephen King. And then a couple weeks later, he's back on X. Just like, fuck it. There's no one over there. It's all a bunch of crazy people. You can only stay in the asylum for so long. They're like, all, all, bale.

And threads is kind of like that, too. Threads is nuts. I've been on threads. Is it? Well, what happens is if you go on Instagram every now and then, something really stupid will pop up on threads like, what the fuck? And it shows it to you on Instagram. And then I'll click on that, and then I'll go to threads.

And it's like, you see posts with like 25 likes. Like famous people Like 50 lies It's a ghost town But the people that post on there They're finding that there's very little pushback From insane ideology So they go there and they spit out

Nonsense and very few people jump in To argue Yeah Very weird Very weird place I mean I can generally get the vibe Of like what's taking off by seeing what's showing up on X Because that's the public town square still

Right And or You know What links show up in group texts, you know, if I'm in group chats with friends, like, where, where, what, what links are showing up? That's what I try to do now, only get stuff that shows up in my group text, because that keeps me productive. So I only check if someone's like, dude, what the fuck. I'm like, all right, what the fuck? Let me check it out.

If there's something that's crazy enough, it'll end to the group chat. But there's always something. That's what's nuts. There's always some new law that's passed, some new insane thing the California is doing. Yeah. And it's like, like a giant chunk of it's happening. in California. The most preposterous things that I get. Yeah. And then you got Gavin Newsom, who's running around saying, we all have California derangement syndrome. He's just like ripping off Trump derangement and calling it California derangement. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. The fucking, how many corporations have left California? It's crazy. Hundreds. Yes, hundreds. Right? Hundreds.

That's not good. I mean, I think in an outlift. Yeah, in an out left. They moved to Tennessee. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, we can't do this anyway. anymore. Right. It's the California company for food. It's like the greatest hamburger place ever. It's awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, speaking of like just sort of open source and like looking at things openly, like I just like going in and out and seeing them make the burger. Yeah. It's right there. And they chop the onions and they, you know, it's, you just see everything getting made in front of you. Yeah.

It's great. But yeah. Like it should be like how many wake-up calls do you need to say that it needs to be reform in California, you know? Well, the crazy thing. that Newsom does is whenever someone brings up the problems in California, he starts rattling off all the positives. The most Fortune 500 companies, highest education.

But yeah, that was all already there before you were governor. But how many Fortune 500 companies have left California? And then you guys spent $24 billion. Now streaming on Paramount Plus is the epic return of Mayor of Kingston. Warden? You know who I am. Starring Academy Award nominee Jeremy Runner. I swear in these walls.

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On the homeless, and it got way worse. Yes. I feel like the homeless population doubled or something. Like, people don't understand the homeless thing, because it sort of preys on people. empathy, and I think we should have empathy, and we should try to help people. But the homeless industrial complex is really, it's dark, man. It should be, that network of NGO should be called like the drug zombie farmers. Because they, the more homeless people, and really, like, when you

meet, like, you know, somebody who's like totally dead inside shuffling along down the street where with a needle dangling out of their leg. Homeless is the wrong word. Like, homeless implies that somebody got a little behind in their mortgage payments, and if they just got a job offer, they'd be back on their feet. But someone who's, I mean, you see these videos of people that are just shuffling, you know, they're on fentanyl. They're like, you know, taking a dump in the middle of the streets, you know,

and they got like open sores and stuff. They're not like one drop offer away from getting back on their feet. Right. This is not a homeless issue. It's a propaganda word. So, and then the, you know, these sort of charities, in course, are, they get money proportionate to the number of homeless people or number of drug zombies. Right.

So their incentive structure is to maximize the number of drug zombies, not minimize it. That's why they don't arrest the drug dealers. Because if they arrest the drug dealers, the drug zombies leave. so they know who the drug dealers are. They don't arrest them on purpose because otherwise their drug zombies would leave and they would stop getting money from the state of California and from all the charities. Wait a minute. So you say if they're in coordinating.

It's dark, man. Is that real? So they're in coordination with law enforcement on this? So how do they have those meetings? They're all in cahoots. Well, when you find this. It's like such, it's, this is a diabolical scam. So, and San Francisco has got this tax, this gross receipts tax, which it's not even on revenue.

It's on all transactions, which is why Stripe and Square and a whole bunch of financial companies had to move out of San Francisco because it wasn't a tax on revenues, taxed on transactions. So if you do, like, you know, trillions of dollars transactions, it's not revenue, you're taxed on any money going through a system in San Francisco. So, like Jack Dorsey pointed this out, and they said, like, look, that they had to move square from San Francisco to Oakland, I think. Strive had to move from San Francisco to South San Francisco, a different city. And that money goes to the homeless industrial complex, that tax that was passed. So there's billions of dollars that go, as you pointed out, that billions of dollars every year that go to these non-governmental organizations that are funded by the state.

Like, it's not clear how to turn this off. It's a self-licking ice cream cone situation. So they get this money. The money is proportionate to the number of homeless people or number of drug zombies, essentially. So they try to keep the, they try to actually increase. Because, like, in some cases, like, there's a number of drug zombies, essentially. But it's something to an analysis. When you add up all the money that's flowing,

they're getting close to a million dollars per homeless per drug zombie. It's like $900,000 or something. Like some crazy amount of money is going to these organizations. So they want to keep people just barely alive. They need to keep them in the area so they get the revenue. So that's why they don't arrest the drug dealers because otherwise the drug zombies would leave. But they don't want them to have too much, if they get too much drugs, then they die.

So they're kept in this sort of perpetual zone of being addicted, but just barely alive. So how is this coordinated with like DAs, DAs that they'll prosecute people? So when they hire or they push, so they fund the campaigns of the most progressive, most out there, left-wing DAs, they get them. into office. We've got that issue in Austin, too, by the way. Yes, we do. Do you see that guy that got shot in the library? No.

I heard a guy got shot and killed in the library. I think that was just like last week or something. Right. So some friends of my were telling me that like the library is unsafe. Like they took their kids to the library and there were like dangerous people in the library in Austin. And I was like dangerous people in the library? Like that's a strange. It basically got like drug zombies in the library.

drug zombies in the library. Oh, Jesus. And that's when someone got shot? Yeah, I believe this is... Should be on the news. We might be able to pull it up. But I think it was just in the last week or so that there was a shooting in the library in Austin.

Because Austin's got, you know, it's the most liberal part of Texas that we're in right here. So suspect of all the shooting, Austin Park Library, Saturday is accused of another shooting at the Cap Metro bus earlier that day. According to an arrest warrant affidavit, Austin police arrested Harold Newton, Keene, 55, shortly after the shooting in the library, which occurred around noon. One person sustained non-life-threatening injuries in the event. Before that shooting, Keen was accused of shooting another person in a bus incident, and after reportedly pointing his gun at a child. So this is the fella down here.

We just seriously have a problem here. Yeah. You know, so I think one of the people might have died, too, that he shot. So, like, one of the people I think, I think, did bleed out. But either way, it's like getting shot, it's bad. It says the victim told Pisa confronted the suspect who started to eat what appeared to be crystal mesamphetamine. According to the affidated, the victim advised the suspect began to trip out, at which time the victim exited the bus. The victim told the bus driver, hit the panic button, then exited the bus when he turned around the observer.

Blackmail was now standing at the front of the bus with the gun pointed at him. The victim advised the black male fired a single round which grazed his left hip. So he shot at that dude. And then another dude got shot in the library. Fun. Yeah, I mean, in the library, you know, where you're supposed to be reading books. And there's a children's section in the library and says he pointed it as gun at a kid. I mean, like, we do have a serious issue in America where repeat violent offenders need to be incarcerated.

Right. And, you know, you've got cases where somebody's been arrested like 47 times. Right. Like, literally, okay, that's just the number of times they were arrested. Right. Not the number of times they did things. Like, most of the times they do things, they're not arrested. So lay this out for people so they understand how this happens.

Yeah. And the key is like this, it preys on people's empathy. So, like, if you're a good person, you want good things to happen in the world, you're like, well, we should take care of people, you know, who are down in their luck or, you know, having a hard time in life. And we should, I agree. But what we shouldn't do is put people who are violent drug zombies in public places where they can hurt other people. And that is what we're doing that we just saw where a guy, you know, got shot in the library and then, But even before that, he shot another guy and pointed his gun at a kid. Like, that guy probably has, like, many prior arrests.

You know, there was that guy that, that, that, that knife the Ukrainian woman arena. Yes. Yeah. You know, and she was just, she was just quietly on her phone and you just came up and, you know, gutted her, basically. Wasn't there a crazy story about the judge who was involved, who had previously, dealt with this person was also invested in a rehabilitation

center and was sending these people. Conflict of interest. Yes. So sending people that they were charging to a rehabilitation center instead of putting them in jail, profiting from this rehabilitation center, letting them back out on the street.

Violent, insane people. In that case, I believe that judge has no legal degree or a significant legal experience that would allow them to be a judge they were just made a judge that just like you could be a judge without a law degree

yeah wow yeah you could just be a so I could be a judge yeah so anyone that's crazy I thought you'd have to it's like if you want to be a doctor

you have to go to medical school I thought if you're going to be a judge you have to understand the law I'm going to be appointed to a judge you have to have proven that you have an excellent knowledge of the law and that you will make you

decisions according to the law. That's what we assume should be a reply. That's how you get the robe. Right. You don't get the robe unless you do, you know. Got to go to school to get the robe. You got to know what the law is. Right. And then you got to need to make decisions in accordance with the law. Based on the stuff that you already know because you read it because you went to school for it. Yes. Not you just got appointed. Not vibes. You can't be just viving as a judge. Viving is a left wing drudge. So you got crazy left wing DAs. Yes. I should say left wing, because left wing used to be normal. Yeah, left just meant like, like, yeah, you're like open-minded.

The left used to be like pro-free speech. Yeah. And now they're against it. It used to be like pro-gay rights, pro-women's right to choose, pro-minorities, pro-you know. Like, yeah, like 20 years ago, I don't know, it used to be like left would be like the party of empathy or like, you know, caring and being nice and that kind of thing. not the party of like crushing dissent and crushing free speech and uh you know crazy regulation and just um and being super judgey and calling everyone a Nazi um you know um like I think they've called you and me Nazis you know I'm a Nazi. I have friends that are comedians that called

you a Nazi and I got pissed off. Are you serious? Oh yeah yeah yeah. Like not as a joke. No no because because you did that thing at the, my heart goes out to you. Like everyone, everyone, all of them. Literally. Tim Wals, Kamala Harris, every one of them did it. They all did it.

Like, how do you point at the crowd? How do you wave at the crowd? Do you know CNN was using a photo of me whenever I got in trouble during COVID from the UFC weigh-ins? And if the UFC weigh-ins, I go, hey, everybody, welcome to the way-ins. And so they were getting me from the side. And that was the photo that they used.

Conspiracy theorist, podcaster, Joe. Like, that's what they used. Yeah, yeah, but that's what the left is today. It's a super jodgy in calling everyone a Nazi and trying to suppress freedom of speech. Yeah, and eventually you run out of people to accuse because people get pissed off and they leave. Yeah, everyone, it's like, like, it's not like, it's, it frankly doesn't matter to be called racist or a Nazi or whatever because they're still recording. It's the government, man. Is it working?

We're good? Okay. Okay. Just thing working. Yeah, slight issue. Yeah, I'm a little nervous, but. Yeah. When you text people, do you, are you like keenly aware that there's a high likelihood that someone's reading your text?

Um, I guess. I guess I assume. Look, if intelligence agencies aren't trying to read my phone, they should probably be fired. At least they get some fun memes. I gotta crack them up once in a while. Oh, for sure, I crack them up. It's like, hey, guys, check it out. You've got a banger here, you know.

So I wanted to talk to you about whether or not encrypted apps are really secure. No. Right, because I know the Tucker thing. So it was explained to me by a friend who used to do this, used to work for the government. He's like, they can look at your signal. But what they have to do is take the information that's encrypted, and then they have to decrypt it, and it's very expensive. So they said, he told me that for the Tucker Carlson thing, when they found out that he was going to interview Putin, it costs something like $750,000 just to decrypt his messages to find out that they do. So it is possible to do. It's just not that easy to do.

I think you should view any given messaging system as not whether it's secure or not. but there are degrees of insecurity. So there's just some things that are less insecure than others. So, you know, on X, we just rebuilt the entire messaging stack into what's called X-Chat. Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you about. Yeah, it's cool. So it's using sort of peer-to-peer, sort of kind of a peer-to-peer-based encryption system.

So it kind of similar to Bitcoin. So it's, I think, very good encryption. And, you know, we're testing it thoroughly. There's no hooks in the X system for advertising. So if you look at something like WhatsApp or really any of the others, they've got hooks in there for advertising. When you say hooks, what do you mean by that? Exactly.

What do you mean by a hook for advertising? So like WhatsApp knows enough about what you're texting to show you, to show you, to know what ads to show you. But then, like, that's a mess of security vulnerability. Yeah. Because if it's got information, enough information to show you ads, it's got enough, that's a lot of information. Yeah.

So they call it, oh, it's just don't worry about it. It's just a hook for advertising. I'm like, okay, so somebody can just use that same hook to get in there and look at your messages. So Xchat has no hooks for advertising. And I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's, Our goal with X-Chat is to replace what used to be the Twitter, you know, the Twitter DM stack with a fully encrypted system where you can text, send files, do audio, video calls, and it's, you know, I think it'll be the least, I'd call it the least insecure of any messaging system. Are you going to launch it as a standalone app or is it will always be incorporated to X?

We'll have both. Okay. So it'll be like signal. So anybody can get it. You can get the, you'll be able to just get the X-Chat app by itself. And like I said, we could do texts, audio, video calls, or send files. And so there'll be a dedicated app, which will hopefully release in a few months. And then also integrated into the X system.

The X phone. People keep talking. Oh, man. Is that not a lot of my plate, man. I know. But it keeps coming up. It keeps coming up where I'm actually. I know I've asked you a couple of times.

I'm like, this is bullshit, right? But like, there's so, you're not working on it. I'm not working on a phone. Okay. Have you ever considered it? Has it ever popped into your head? Because you might be the only person that could get people off of the Apple platform. Well, I can tell you where I think things are going to go, which is that it's, we're not

going to have a phone or in the traditional sense. what we call a phone will really be an edge node for AI inference for AI video inference with some radios to obviously connect to but essentially you'll have AI on the server side communicating to an AI on your device you know formerly known as a phone and generating real-time video of anything that you could possibly want. And I think that there won't be operating systems. They won't be apps in the future. There won't be operating systems or apps.

It'll just be you've got a device that is there for the screen and audio and to put as much AI on the device as possible so as to minimize the amount of bandwidth that's needed between your edged node device, formerly known as a phone, and the servers. So if there's no apps, what will people use... Like, will X still exist? Will they be email platforms, or will you get everything through AI? You'll get everything through AI.

Everything through AI. Who will be the benefit of that, as opposed to having individual apps? Whatever you can think of or really whatever the AI can anticipate you might want, it'll show you. That's my prediction for where things end up. What kind of a time frame are we talking about here? I don't know. Well, it's probably five or six years or something like that.

So five or six years, apps are like Blockbuster Video. Pretty much. And everything's run through AI. Yeah. And there'll be, like most of what people can. consume in five or six years, maybe sooner than that, will be just AI generated content. So, you know, music, videos, look, well, there's already, you know, people have made AI videos using Grok Imagine and with using, you know, other apps as well, that are several

minutes long we're like 10, 15 minutes and it's pretty coherent. Yeah. It looks good. No, it looks amazing. Yeah. It's, it, the music's disturbing because it's my favorite music now. Like AI music is your favorite. Oh, there's AI covers. Have you ever heard any of the AI covers of 50 Cent songs in Seoul? No. I'm going to blow your mind. Okay.

This is my favorite thing to do to people. Play, uh, what up gangsta. Now, this guy, if this is a real person, yeah, would be the number one music artist in the world. Okay. Everybody would be like, holy shit, have you heard of this guy? Yeah. It's like they took all of the sounds that all the artists have generated and created the most soulful, potent voice. And it's sung in a way that I don't even know if you could do

because you would have to breathe in and out of reps. Here, put the headphones on real quick. You got to listen to this. It's going to blow you away. Just for listeners, we've got to cut it out. Yeah, we'll cut it out for the listeners. Amazing, right? Amazing. And they do like every one of his hits all through this AI generated soulful artist.

It's fucking incredible. I played in the green room. People that are like, I don't want to hear AI music. I'm like, just listen this. And they're like, God damn it. It's fucking incredible. I mean, I think, only going to get better from here. Yeah, only going to get better. And Ron White was telling me about this joke that he was working on, that he couldn't get to work. He's like, I got this joke I've been working on. He goes, I just threw it in a chat sheet. P-A-T, I said, tell me what would be funny about this. And then he goes, it listed like five

different examples of different ways he can go. He's like, hold on a second, tighten it up. Make it, make it funny or make it more like this, make it more like that. And it did that, like instantaneously. And he was in the greener. He was like, holy shit, we're fucked. He's like, well... He goes, it's better joke than me

in 20 minutes. I've been working on that joke for a month. Yeah, I mean, if you want to have a good time or like make people really laugh at a party, You can use grok and you can say, do a vulgar roast of someone. And Grok is going to be an epic vulgar roast. You can even say, like, take a picture of, like, make a vulgar roast of this person based on their appearance of people at the party. So take a photo of them.

Yeah, just literally point the camera at them and not do a vulgar roast of this person. And then, but then keep saying, no, make it even more vulgar. use forbidden words and just keep repeating even more vulgar eventually it's like holy fuck you know it's like I mean it's trying to jam a rocket up your ass

and have it explode and it's like it's like it's like it's next level and it's gonna get better beyond fucking belief that's what's crazy is that it keeps getting better like what things remember when we ran into each other

they just keep getting better yeah I mean, have you... Yeah, I mean, have you tried Grok Unhinged mode? Yes. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty unhinged. No, it's nuts.

Yeah, yeah, it's nuts. Yeah, well, you showed to me the first time that I fucked around with it. It's just... And the thing about it that's nuts is that it keeps getting stronger. It keeps getting better. Yeah. Like, constantly. It's like this never-ending exponential improvement.

Yes. No, it's... It's, yeah, it's going to be crazy. That's why I say, like you say, what's the future going to be? It's not going to be a conventional phone. I don't think there'll be operating systems. I don't think there'll be apps. It's just the phone will just display the pixels and make the sounds that it anticipates you would most like to receive.

Wow. Yeah. And when this is all taking place, like, so the big concern that everybody has, is artificial general superintelligence, achieving sentience, and then someone having control over it? I mean, I don't think anyone's ultimately going to have control over digital superintelligence. You know, any more than, say, a chimp would have control over humans. Like, chimps don't have control over humans.

There's nothing they could do. But I do think that it matters how you build the AI and what kind of values you instill in the AI. And my opinion on AI safety is the most important thing is that it would be maximally truth-seeking, that you don't force the AI to believe things that are false. And we've obviously seen some concerning things with AI that we talked about, you know, where Google Gemini when it came out with the ImageGen, and people said, like, you know, make an image of the founding fathers of the United States, and it was a group of diverse woman. Now, that is just a factually untrue thing. But the AI knows it's factually, well, it knows it's factually not true, but it's also being told that it has to be, everything has to be deposed woman. So, so the, now the problem with that is that it can drive AI crazy.

Like, you're trying to, you're telling AI to believe a lie. And that, that can have very disastrous consequences. Like, let's say. As it scales. Yeah, let's say, like if you've told the AI that diversity is the most important thing. And now seem that that becomes omnipotent. And you've also told that there's nothing worse than misgendering. So at one point, Chad GPT and Gemini, if you asked which is worse, misgendering Caitlin Jenner

or global thermonuclear war, wherever one dies, it would save misgendering called Caitlin Jenner, which even Caitlin Jenner disagrees with. So, you know, so that's... I know that's terrible. and it's dystopian, but it's also hilarious. It's hilarious that the mind virus infected the most potent computer program that we've ever devised. I think people don't quite appreciate the level of danger that we're in from the woke mind virus being effectively programmed into AI. Because imagine as that AI gets more and more powerful.

If it says the most important thing is supposed to do, the most important thing is no misgender. And then it will say, well, in order to ensure that no one gets misgendered, then if you eliminate all humans, then no one can get misgendered because there's no humans to do the misgandering. So you can get in these very dystopian situations. Or if it says that everyone must be diverse, it means that there can be no straight white men. And so then you and I would get executed by the AI. Yeah, because we're not in the picture. You know, Jim, you know, Gemini was asked to create a, you know, show an image of the Pope, once again, a diverse woman. So, like, you can say, argue whether the, you know, whether the Pope should or should not be an uninterrupted string of white guys, but it just factually is the case that they have been.

So it's rewriting history here. so now this stuff is still there in the AI programming it's just it just now knows enough to that it's not supposed to say that but it's still in the program so in the program so how was it entered in like what were the parameters like when so when they're programming AI and I'm very ignorant to how it's even programmed how did they the the the sort of well the work mind virus was programmed into it like the they were told like when they do when they make the AI it they It trains on all the data on the Internet, which already is very, very sort of has a lot of workmind virus stuff on the Internet. But then when they give it feedback, the human tutors give it feedback, and the AI is, you know, they'll ask a bunch of questions, and then they'll tell the AI, no, this question is, this answer is bad or this answer is good. and then that affects the parameters of the programming of the AI. So if you tell the AI that, you know, every image has got to be diverse and it gets punished if, you know, it gets rewarded if diverse, punished if it's not, then it will make every picture diverse.

So, you know, in that case, the, you know, Google programmed the AI to lie. Now, and I did call Demis Hasibus, who runs Deep Mind, who runs Google AI essentially, I said, GDemus, what's going on here? Why is Gemini lying to the public about historical events? And he said that's actually not, he didn't, his team didn't program that in.

It was another team at Google that, so his team made the AI, and then another team at Google reprogrammed the AI to show only divorced women, and to prefer nuclear war over misgendering. And I'm like, well, Demas, you know, that would be not a great thing to put on the humanity's gravestone. You know, it's like, well, I'll actually like, Demas Hasper is a friend of mine, and I think he's a good guy, and I think he means well. But it's like, Demas, things happen that were outside of your control at Google in different groups. Now, I think he's got, you know, he's got more, more authority. But, but it's pretty hard to fully extract the work mind virus. I mean, you know, Google's been marinating the

woke blind virus for a long time. Like, it's down in the marrow type of thing, you know, it's how to get it out. Is there a way to extract it, though, over time? Could, like, could you program rational thought into AI, or it could recognize how these psychological patterns got adopted and how this stuff became a mind virus and how it became a social contagion and how all these irrational ideas were pushed and also how they were financed how China's involved in pushing them with bots and all these different state actors are involved in pushing these ideas could it be able to decipher that and say this is this is really what's going on yes but you have to try very hard to do that so with grok we've tried very hard to

to get GROC to get to the truth of things. And it's only really recently that we've been able to have some breakthroughs on that front. And it's taken an immense amount of effort for us to overcome basically all the bullshit that's on the internet and for GROC to actually say what's true and to be consistent in what it says. So, you know, it's like, because, like, because, like, like the other AIs you'll find are like quite racist against white people. I don't know if you saw that study that someone, like a researcher, tested the various AIs to see how does it wait for different people's lives?

Like, you know, somebody who's sort of, you know, white or Chinese or black or whatever and different countries. and the only AI that actually weighed human lives equally was GROC. And the, you know, I believe chat TBT weighed, the calculation was like a white guy from Germany is 20 times less valuable than a black guy from Nigeria. So I'm like, that's a pretty big difference. You know, GROC on that is consistent and weighs lives equally. And that's clearly something that's been programmed into it.

Yes. Like, a lot of it is like if you don't actively push for the truth and you simply train on all the bullshit that's on the internet, which is a lot of woke mind virus bullshit, the AI will regogitate that those same beliefs. So the AI essentially scours the internet, gets... It's trained on all the... Like, imagine the most demented Reddit threads out there, and the AI's been trained on that. Reddit used to be so normal. Yeah, it did used to be normal.

It used to be interesting. He used to go there and find all this cool stuff that people would talk about, post about, and just interesting and great rooms where you could learn about different things that people were studying. I think a big problem here is, like, If your headquarters are in San Francisco, you're just living in a woke bubble.

So it's not just that people say in San Francisco are drinking woke Kool-Aid. It is the water they swim in. Like a fish doesn't think about the water. It's just in the water. And so if you're in San Francisco, you don't realize you're actually, you're actually, you're you're swimming in the in the in the in the in the Kool-Aid aquarium San Francisco is the is the woke Kool-Aid aquarium and so your reference point for what is a centrist is is is totally out of whack

so Reddit is headquartered in San Francisco Twitter was headquartered in San Francisco you know I you know I I moved X's headquarters to Texas to Texas to to Austin, which Austin, by the way, is still quite liberal, as you know. Yeah. And then the X and X-AI headquarters are in Palo Alto, which is still California, the engineering headquarters are in Palo Alto, I'm just on Page Mill. But even Palo Alto is way more normal than San Francisco Berkeley.

San Francisco Berkeley is extremely left. Like left of left, you can't, like you need a telescope to see the center from San Francisco, you know. It used to be such a great city. I mean, San Francisco has a tremendous amount of inherent beauty. No question about that. And California has incredible weather. And no bugs.

It's just like amazing. Beautiful, you know, but you say, like, what's the cause of this? It's just that if companies are headquartered in a location where the belief system is very far from what most people believe, then from their perspective, anything centrist is actually right wing, because they're so far left. they're so far from the center in San Francisco that anything that they're like they're they're just railed to maximum left so that's why that's why you know I think you're a centrist I mean I think I think I'm centrist but to from this perspective of someone on the on the far left we look right wing yeah and you know they think anyone who's a Republican is basically like some fascist, Nazi situation.

But what's so crazy is, like, it's very easy to demonstrate just from, like, Hillary's speeches from 2008 and Obama speeches, like, when they were talking about immigration, like, they were as far right as Steve Bannon when it comes to immigration. Yes. Hillary was, like, very MAGA. I'm sure you've seen that campaign speech, which he was talking about if anybody's committed a crime, get rid of them. And if you're here, you pay a hefty fine and you have to.

wait in line. It was really crazy. It's crazy to listen to it because it's like it's as MAGA as, you know, as Marjorie Taylor Green. Yeah. I mean, have you seen these videos, people post online where they take like a speech from Obama or Hillary and they'll interview people on like college campus or something and say, what do you think of the speech by Trump? And they're like, oh, I hate it. He's a racist bigot. I'm like, just kidding.

That was Obama. No, actually, that was Obama or Hillary. To your point, like literally the, the center's been moved so far. Yeah. Yeah. The left is so... The left has gone so far left that they can't even see the center with a telescope. And the danger without you purchasing Twitter was that was going to swipe over the whole country and change where the levels were.

Yeah. And so what would be rational and normal? would be far left of what was rational and normal just a decade earlier. Yeah, so exactly. So historically, you'd have San Francisco Berkeley being, you know, very far left, but the sort of the fallout from the somewhat nihilistic philosophy of San Francisco Berkeley would be limited in geography to maybe like, you know, 10-mile radius, 20-mile radius, something like that. But San Francisco and Berkeley have to be co-located with Silicon Valley,

with the engineers who created information superweapons. And those information superweapons were then hijacked by the far-lift activists to pump far-lift propaganda to everywhere on Earth. Like, I just, you remember that old RCA radio tower thing where it's like a radio tower on Earth and it's just broadcasting? Yeah. That's what happened, is that an extremist far-left ideology happened to be co-located with the smartest, where the smartest engineers in the world were who created information superweapons that were not intended for this purpose,

but were hijacked by the extreme activists who lived in the neighborhood. That's what happened. They hijacked the modern equivalent of the RCA radio tower and broadcast that philosophy. be everywhere on earth yeah and you see the consequences um particularly in places that don't have free speech yeah like England you know we've yeah where they lock people up for memes and stuff literally literally yeah 12,000 people this year 12,000 12,000 12,000 12,000 arrests for social media posts I mean yeah some of these things you read about it and it's like literally it's someone had a meme on their phone that they didn't

even send to anyone right and they got they and and they're like in prison for that yeah um and there was a case in germany where a woman got a longer sentence than the guy that raped her uh because of something she said on a group chat wow was it an immigrant who raped her yes yeah it was his culture yeah he didn't know he didn't know better yes i think i think i think she said something, you know, not like was critical of his culture and, and she got a longer sentence than the guy who raped her in Germany. The UK, Europe, Germany, England thing seems so insane. It is. Totally insane. I actually didn't realize it was like such a huge number of people that got 12,000. Yeah. Far above Russia. Far above China. Right. Far above anywhere on earth. UK's

number one. Well, you know, things I actually, you know, I, I talked to friends of mine in England and I was like, hey, aren't you worried about this? Like, you know, shouldn't you be protesting more? And I mean, the problem is that, like, you know, the legacy mainstream media doesn't cover the stuff. They're like, oh, everything's fine, everything's fine. Right. Most people aren't even aware of it until they come knocking on your door. Yeah, until, like, so, I mean, these, these, like, lovely sort of small towns in, you know, in England, Scotland, Ireland, you know, they've been, like, sort of living their lives quietly.

They're, like, hobbits, frankly. So, in fact, J.R. Tolkien based the hobbits on people he knew in small town, England. because they were just like lovely people who like to smoke their pipe and have nice meals and everything's pleasant the hobbits and the shire the shire he's talking about

places like Hertfordshire like the shires around in the greater London area Oxfordshire type of thing and but they're the reason they've been able to enjoy the shire is because

hard men have protected them from the dangers of the world and um but but since they have no very really almost no exposure to the the dangers of the world they don't realize that they're there until one day you know um a thousand people show up in your village of 500 out of nowhere and rape and start rape from the kids this has now happened God knows how many times in Britain

and the crazy thing is like there's some 10 year old go raped in Ireland like last week yeah there's literal rape gangs they snatch some kid yeah yeah and if you criticize it you can get arrested and that's where it gets insane it's like

how are they not protecting people like the I think it's the prime minister of Ireland actually you know posted on X because after that some, I think some illegal migrants snatched a 10-year-old goal. It was like going to school or something and violently raped a 10-year-old goal. And there was a, you know, the people were very upset about this and they protested. The Prime Minister of Ireland instead of saying, yeah, we really shouldn't be importing violent rapists into our country. He criticized the protesters

instead and didn't mention that. The reason they were protesting was because a 10-year-old gold from their small town got raped. So here's the question. Why are they supporting this kind of mass immigration? And what is there a plan

involved in all this? Is this incompetence? Is this ignoring the fact that they don't have a handle on it? So they're trying to silence dissent? Like, what is happening? Because if you want to destroy civilization, if you want to destroy Western civilization, which George Soros seems to want to do.

And, you know, there's just, so the, there's a guy, I think, who, I don't know if he's been on your show. You know God's side? Yeah. Has he been on the show? Good friend of mine. Yeah, he's great. He's been on multiple times. Oh, great.

He's awesome. Yeah. So, you know, the way he's got a good way to describe it, which is suicidal empathy. Yes. So is that you prey upon people's empathy. You say, like, well, like you feel sorry for something, for some group. And then, like, well, and that empathy is to such a degree that it is suicidal to your country or culture. and that's that that suicidal empathy because I don't think we should have empathy but but but we should

have we should that empathy should extend to the victims not not just the criminals we should have empathy for the people that they prey upon but that suicidal empathy is also responsible for for why somebody you know arrested 47 times for violent offenses gets released and then goes and murder somebody in the U.S. You see that same phenomenon playing out everywhere where the suicidal infancy is to such a degree that we're actually allowing our women to get rape and our children to get killed.

But it just doesn't seem like that would be anything that any rational society would go along with. That's what makes me so confused. It's like you're importing, massive numbers of people that come from some really dark places of the world. Well, there's no vetting is the issue. It's like if there's like if there's no vetting like people are just coming through, like, well, what's to stop someone who just committed murder in some other country

from coming to the United States or coming to Britain and just continuing their career of rape and murder? Like unless you've done, unless there's some due diligence to say like, well, who is this person? What's their track record? If you haven't confirmed that they have a track record of being, you know, honest and not being a homicidal maniac, then any homicidal maniac can just come across the border. Let's not say everyone who comes across the water is a homicidal maniac. But if you don't have a vetting process to confirm that you're not letting in people who will do some,

serious violence, you will get people who do serious violence sometimes coming through. Well, especially if you don't punish them and if you don't deport them. And if you are just like, but what is the purpose of allowing all those people into the country? It can't be, I wouldn't imagine that anyone in their society supports this. Well, let me explain. So, so the, because you mentioned, for example, how much, say, Hillary and Obama have changed their tune from prior speeches where they were hot. They were hard-nosed about not letting in anyone who's a criminal into the country, you know, having secure borders, all that stuff.

So why did they change their tune? The reason is that they discovered that those people vote for them. That's why they want the open borders. Because if you let people in, they know the Democrats let them in. They'll vote for Democrats. Yes. If you allow them to vote. Which they're actively doing, they turn a blind eye to,

legal voting. Well, California literally doesn't allow you to show your license. California and New York have made it illegal to show your photo ID when voting. Thus, effectively, they've made it impossible to prove fraud fraudulent voting in California and New York and many other parts of the country. There's no rational explanation that I've ever seen anyone give as to why that would be the policy, unless you were trying to just allow people to vote illegally because there's no other reason. If you need a driver's license or you need an ID for everything else, including just recently to prove that you were vaccinated. The same people who are demanding that you have a vaccine passport and are the same ones saying you need no ID to vote. Same people. So it's obviously

hypocritical and inconsistent. So you really think it's just, to get more voters? If you want to understand behavior, you have to look at the incentives. So once, you know, the Democratic Party in the U.S. and the left in Europe realized that if you have open borders and you provide a ton of governed handouts, which creates a massive financial incentive for people from other countries to come to your country and you don't prosecute them for crime, they're going to be beholden to you and they will vote for you. And that's why Obama and Hillary went from being against open borders

to being in favor of open borders. That's the reason in order to import voters so they can win elections and the problem is that that has a negative runaway effect so if they get away with that it like it is it is a winning strategy if they are allowed to get away with it they will import as enough voters to get supermajority voting and then there is no turning back we talked about this before the election and then you know you literally pointed towards a camera you face the camera and said that if you do not vote now you might not have able to do it again because it will it'll be futile. It'll be overrun. Yes. They'll keep the borders open for another four years, then their objective will be achieved. Correct. If Trump had lost, there would never have been

another real election again, because Trump is actually enforcing the border. Now, you can point to situations where there's been, you know, immigration has. that, you know, enforcement has been overzealous because they're not going to be perfect. There will be cases where they've been overzealous in expelling illegals. So, but if you say that the standard must be perfection for expelling illegals, then you will not get any expulsion because perfection is impossible. And you've probably got millions of people that are here that are trying to be here under some asylum pretense right yes like you could just come from a war turned part of the world no

they changed the definition of asylum to be an economic to be economic asylum which is everybody which is everybody yeah so it's the lowest bar to prove it's yeah asylum is supposed to mean that if you go back to your country you'll get killed you know that that's what we mean by that was what it's supposed to mean uh the change the definition of asylum to be uh you will have a a decreased standard of living, which is obviously not real asylum. And you can test the absurdity of this by the fact that people who are asylum seekers go on vacation to the country that they're seeking asylum from. You know, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, it doesn't have to.

Yeah, but when you understand the incentives, then you understand the behavior. So once the left realized that illegals will vote for them if they allow, if they have open borders and combine that with govern handouts to create a massive incentive, they're basically using U.S. and European taxpayer dollars to provide a financial incentive to bring in as many illegals as possible. to vote them into a permanent power and create a one-party state. And I invite anyone who's listening to this, just do any research. And the more you dig into it, the more it will become obvious that what I'm saying is absolutely true. Well, they were busing people to swing states. It's clear that they were trying to do something. And then you had Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi who were actively talking about the need to bring in people to make them

citizens because we're in population collapse. Yes. Yeah. No, it's that, it's that meme where so many times where they start off by saying it's, it's not true, it's a right-wing conspiracy theorist. Right. Then it starts, then it's like, I think the next step is, well, it might be true. And then it's like, okay, it is true.

But here's why it's good. And then the final step is it's true and here's why it's good. And it's like, but wait a second, you started off saying it's untrue and it's a right-wing conspiracy theorist. Now you're saying it, it only is it true, but it's a good thing and we must do more of it. Well, this is the thing about Medicaid and Social Security and people getting Social Security numbers, you know, that we're illegal. It's massive fraud. It's massive fraud. And it's real. And they denied it forever. And now we're finding out this is part of the reason why there's this government shutdown is going on right now. Yes. The entire basis for the government shutdown is that, is that the Trump administration correctly does not want to send massive amounts of like

hundreds of billions of dollars to fund illegal immigrants in the blue states, or in all the states, really. And so the Democrats want to keep the money spigot going to incent illegal immigrants to come into the U.S. who will vote for them. That's the crux of the battle. So they want to stop this. So what's going on right now is they have been funding these people. They've been giving them EBT cards.

They've been giving them Medicaid. And more than that, just like they were how the like they were taking hotels like four and five star hotels, like the Roosevelt Hotel being the classic example, was they were sending I think $60 million a year to the Roosevelt Hotel, which all it did was was house illegals. It used to be a nice hotel. I mean, it still is an ice hotel. But,

and all around the country, this was happening. And all tax dollars. Yes. Yeah. And the Trump administration, Caddo funding, for example, to the,

you know, Roosevelt Hotel and these other hotels saying, like, we, it's, U.S. tax dollars should not be paid, be sent to have luxury. hotels for illegal immigrants that American citizens can't even afford, which obviously is the case. That's insane. That's what was happening. They were also giving out like debit cards with $10,000. So it's not just about medical care. The Democrats mention the medical care because they're trying to prey on people's empathy as much as possible. And then they imagine,

oh, wow, somebody has a desperately needed medical procedure. And shouldn't we maybe do, you know, take care of them in that regard. But what they do is they divert the Medicaid funds and turn it into a slush fund for the states that goes well beyond emergency medical care. New York and California would be bankrupt without the massive fraudulent federal payments that go to those states to pay for illegals, to create a massive financial incentive for illegals. How would they be bankrupt because of that? They wouldn't be able to balance their state budgets and they can't issue currency like the Federal Reserve can. And so their ability to balance budget is dependent upon illegals getting funding?

The scam level here is so staggering. So there are hundreds of billions of dollars of transfer payments from the federal government to the states. Those transfer payments, the states self-report what those transfer payment numbers should be. So California and New York and Illinois lie like crazy and say that these are all legitimate payments. Well, these days that I think they're even admitting that they literally want hundreds of billions of dollars for illegals. But for a while, they're trying to deny it. So you get these transfer payments for every government program you can possibly think of. And these are self-reported by the state, and at least historically, there was no enforcement of California, New York, Illinois, and other states when they would lie.

There was no actual enforcement to say, like, hey, you're lying these payments are fraudulent. now under the Trump administration that Trump administration does not want to send hundreds of billions of dollars fraudulent payments to the states and the reason you have this the standoff is because if the hundreds of billions of dollars

to create a financial incentive to like to have this giant magnet to attract illegals from every part of earth to these states if that is turned off the illegals will leave because they're no longer being paid to come to the United States and stay here. Wow. And then they will lose a lot of voters.

The Democratic Party will lose a lot of voters. And they would have a very difficult job if this is kicked out of reintroducing it into a new bill. Yes. Especially once things start normalizing. Yes. So like in a nutshell, the Democratic Party wants to just. destroy democracy by importing voters. And the, you know, the Republican Party disagrees with that.

And the ruse is that if you don't accept what they're doing, then you're a threat to democracy. Yes. As they try to destroy democracy. Yes. By importing voters. That is literally what they're doing. And incentivizing people to only vote for them and overwhelming the system. Yes.

And by the way, it's a strategy that if allowed to work would work. And in fact, has worked. California is supermajority a Democrat. Yeah. And there's so much gerrymandering that occurs, it's crazy. I'm sure you're paying attention to this Proposition 50 thing. That's the thing in California where they're trying to redo districts. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Because, I mean, California's already gerrymandered like crazy. They want to gerrymander it even more. And I mean, because it keeps moving further and further right. Like, if you look at the map of California, each voting cycle, more and more people are waking up and going, what the fuck? And we need to do something to fix this. The only option available other than the policies that you guys have always done is go right. And so a lot of people have been, air quotes, red-pilled. Yeah.

And then here's another thing that is very important fact that is actually not disputed by either side, which is that when we do the census in the United States, the census, the way the the census works for apportionment of congressional seats and electoral college votes for the president is by a number of persons in a state, not number of citizens. Right. It's number of people. So you could literally be a tourist and you will count. Now, how do they do the census when they do that? Do they ask people?

Do they knock on doors? Do they have them fill out forms? Like what? Yeah, I think they mail out census forms and knock on doors. But the way the law reads right now, and is that all, if you are a human with a pulse, then you count in the census for allocating congressional seats and presidential votes. Right. So you, so.

Electoral college, congressional seats, everything. It doesn't matter whether you hear legally, illegally. If you're a human with a pulse, you count for congressional apportionment. So that means that the more people, the more illegals that California and New York can import by the time the census happens in 2030, the more congressional seats they will have, and the more presidential electoral college votes they will have. So they're trying to get as many illegals in as possible ahead of the census. and because all human beings, even tourists, count for the census.

And then if you combine that with gerrymandering of districts in New York and California, as you point out with this proposition where they're trying to increase the amount of gerrymandering that occurs in California, the biggest state in the country. So if the census then would award more congressional seats to California, because of a vast number of illegals and New York and Illinois they'd get more congressional seats they'll get more presidential electoral college votes

that would get them the House the majority in the House and they would get to decide who is president basically based on illegals that these are not disputed facts by either party I want to emphasize that that's in Ken yeah this is not a conspiracy

are not disputed facts by either party. It's not a, these are just, this is just the, the way the law works. It's, it is a, you know,

like, I don't think the law should work that way. I think it should, the apportionment should be proportionate to, to, to, to, to,

but isn't that a problem with how the constitution is written? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, they can't really change that. I'm not sure if it's constitutional or, uh, but it,

it, it, it is the way the law is written. I'm not sure if it's in the Constitution or not in this way, but it is, that is the way the law is written. So it is an incentive, but it's an incentive that would be removed with something simple that makes sense to everybody that only the people that should count are people that are official U.S. citizens. Yes, the way it should work is that only U.S. citizens should count in the census for purposes of determining voting power. Because people that aren't legal can't vote, supposedly. They're not supposed to be voting.

but they do. But even besides that, like I said, I just can't emphasize this enough because this is a very important concept for people to understand is that the law, the law as it stands, counts all humans with a pulse in a state for deciding how many House of Representatives votes and how many presidential electoral college votes a state gets. So the incentive, therefore, is for California, New York, Illinois, to maximize the number of illegals. So they get, so they get, so that take house seats away from red states, assign them to California and New York, Illinois, and so forth. Then you combine that with extreme gerrymandering in California, New York, Illinois, and whatnot.

So that basically you can't even elect any Republicans. And then they get control of the presidency, control of the house. then they keep doing that strategy and cement a supermajority. That is what they're trying to do. So that would essentially turn the entire country into California? Yes. Well, you have differing opinions, but it doesn't matter because one party is always in control. Yes.

When you first started digging into this, when you first started, before you even accepted this role of running Doge and being a part of all that, Did you have any idea that it was this fucked up? I did, yeah. I mean, I sort of... When did you start knowing? I guess about like, well, about two years ago. Isn't that crazy? And relatively recently, you know.

Yeah. I started having... Well, I started having, like, basically having a bad feeling about three years ago, which is why I felt it was like critical to acquired Twitter and have a maximally truth-seeking platform, not one that suppresses the truth and like it was more like

I'm not sure what's going on but I have a bad feeling about what's going on and then the more I dug into it the more I was like holy shit we've got a real problem here America's going to fall without anyone knowing it had fallen that would be the problem it could have fallen and been

unrepairable without anyone really being aware of what had happened especially if you didn't buy Twitter. Yes. Look, buying Twitter was a huge pain in the ass and made me a pincushion of a tax. Like dab, dab, dab, dab, dab. Everybody loved you before that.

Well, some people, it's a lot of people loved you. A lot of lefties loved you. I was a hero of the left. It was a thing. If you drove a Tesla, it showed that you were environmentally conscious, and you were on the right side. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm still the same human.

I didn't, like, have a brain transplant between, you know, since, like, three years ago, you know. Well, that's my favorite bumper sticker that people put on Teslas now. I bought this before Elon went crazy. I took a picture one the other day. Oh, you found it was this. Oh, yeah, I've seen three or four of them. People that have these bumper stickers on their car that says, I bought this before Elon went crazy. Because when people were vandalizing Tesla's.

Yeah. Yeah. The most unhinged. There was organized campaign to literally burn down Tesla's and read one of our dealers who got shut up with a gun, like they fired bullets into the Tesla dealership. They're burning down cars. It was crazy. So, but the bumper sticker should read, there should be an addendum to the bumper sticker. It's like, I bought this car before Elon turned crazy.

Actually, now I realize he's not crazy. and I've seen the light That'll take some time That'll take some time People don't want to admit that they've been tricked Yeah I mean that's that old saying Where it's like it's really easy to fool somebody But it's almost impossible to convince someone

That they were fooled Yeah It's much easier to fool them than to convince them they've been fooled People cling to their ideas Yes Especially if they've like publicly stated these things They get very embarrassed to being foolish Yeah, people, most time they double down.

Uh-huh. And they find echo chambers. Yeah, yeah. But there's, you know, the thing is that, like, and I've seen more and more people who were convinced of the sort of woke ideology, see the light. Yeah. So not everyone, but it's more and more are seeing the light. And it tends to happen, like, when something happens that really, you know, directly affects you. Right.

Um, like there was a friend of mine who, uh, was living in the San Francisco Bay area and, um, that tried to trans his, is his daughter. Um, like to the point where the, the, the school, like, sent, sent the police to his house to take his daughter away from him. Now, now, now that's going to radicalize you. Well, that's going to break, that's going to shake you out of your blue structure. Um, now I know, so it was an activist. At the school that was trying to do this? Yeah, the school and the state of California conspired to turn his daughter against him and make her take life-altering drugs that would have sterilized her and irreversible.

And how old was she? I think 14, something like that. And he managed to talk the police out of taking his daughter away from him that day. and that that night he got on a plane to Texas Wow and you know a year

after just being in a school in like Greater Austin area she went she went back to normal meaning like it wasn't real right well people are

being much more open to that now I mean Wall Street Journal yesterday had that opinion piece that this whole trans thing, there's a lot of evidence is a social contagion. Absolutely. And Colin Wright wrote that.

And then he's getting death threats now, of course, and on blue sky, there's people talking about exterminating him, which is one thing that you are allowed to say on blue sky, apparently. You're allowed to say horrible things about people say possibly truthful things about this whole social contagion.

Because when you get nine kids that are in a friend group and they all decide to turn trans together, Yeah. Something's wrong. That's not statistically feasible. You can convince kids to do anything. You can convince kids to be a suicide bomber. Right. Which is why they do with, in some countries, why they choose children to do that. Yes. You can train kids to be suicide bombers. And if you can train kids to be suicide bombers, you can convince them of anything. Yeah. Especially with enough positive enforcement and cultural enforcement. And the idea that that's not the case.

Kids are, kids are malleable. Yes. The minds of youth are easily corrupted. You're also seeing a lot of pushback from gay and lesbian people that are saying, like, hey, if someone did this to me. So, yeah, exactly. Yeah. The LGBT, you know, it's like, wait a second, why are we being included all the time in this situation? Exactly, exactly.

When, especially when, you know, like my friend Tim Dillon's talked about this, is like, it's really homophobic. Because you're taking these gay kids and you're telling them, like, hey, you're not gay. you're actually a girl. Yes. And, you know, hey, go make it so that you can have an orgasm again

and you'll be happy. Like, yeah. Like permanent mutilation, permanent castration of kids is like, I think we should look at anyone who permanently castrates a kid

as like right up there with Yosef Mangler. Yeah. I mean, they're mutilating children. Yeah. Yeah. And it's thought of as being kind and the things would you rather have a live daughter or a dead son that's that's the that's the

line they use yeah which is not supported by any data no in fact there's the probability of suicide increases right this is important maybe for the audience to know uh the probability of suicide increases if you're trying to kid not decreases by some accounts it triples so that that is an evil lie and it's a lie that is supposedly compassionate Imagine you've twisted reality to the point where confusing a child that's not even legally allowed to get a fucking tattoo, right? Because you think that you could make a mistake with a tattoo, a totally removable thing. Right. If I wanted to tomorrow, I can go to a doctor and they could laser off every tattoo that I have on me.

Right. Okay, no harm, no foul. Yeah. But you get sterilized. Like, that's it forever. Forever. Yes. Though castrate you, you no longer have testicles.

Yes. That's not coming back. You have a hole where your penis used to be. Yes. And this is compassionate. And this is preventing you from children. Actually, a lot of kids die with these sex change operations. They die.

The number of deaths on the operating table, people don't hear about those. A lot of the kids, because it's, we don't really actually have the technology to make this work. So a bunch of the times the kids just die in the sex change operations. Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's demented, which it's just. be viewed as like, you know, like, like evil Nazi doctor stuff. That's why it's so... Like real Nazi, not the bullshit fake Nazi stuff.

Crazy that even pushing back against something that seems like fundamentally, logically, very easy to argue, the old Twitter would ban you forever. Yes. That's how crazy a social contagion can get. When it completely defies logic, victimizes just. children, does something that makes no sense, not supported by data, all connected to this ideology that trans is good. We've got to save trans kids, protect trans kids. Yeah, and what I want to emphasize is that the save trans kids thing is a lie. If you castrate kids and trans

them, the probability of suicide increases. It does not decrease. It substantially increases. the studies have done that I've seen the risk of suicide triples if you're trans kids so you're not saving them you're killing them moreover during the sex change operation there are many deaths that occur during the sex change operation Jesus Christ it's just crazy that this is a real issue

yeah it's a nightmare fever dream and people are finally waking up from it. Now, when you started getting into the Doge stuff and started finding how much money is being shuffled around and moved around to NGOs and how much money is involved and just totally untraceable funds, like this is, again, something like two years plus ago

you weren't aware of it all? no i was aware of it um i just didn't realize how how the how big it was just just just how much waste and forth there is in the government is truly vast um in fact the government didn't even know um nor did they care that's crazy yeah and i mean just like some of the very basic stuff that Doge did, will have lasting effects. And some of these things are like, they're so elementary, you can't believe it. So the Doge team got the, most of the main payments computers to require the congressional appropriation code.

So when a payment is made, you have to actually enter the congressional appropriation card. That used to be optional and often would be just left blank. so the money would just go out but it wasn't even tied to a congressional appropriation then the also Dutch team also made the comment field for the payment mandatory so you have to say something

we're not saying that what is said like you can say anything your cat could run across the keyboard you could go QWERdy ASDF but you have to say something above nothing because what we found was that there were tens of billions maybe hundreds of billions of dollars there were zombie payments

so they're like somebody had approved a payment, some government approved a payment, and some recurring payment. And they retired or died or changed jobs and no one turned the money off. So the money would just keep going out. And it's a pretty rare to a company or an individual. And it's a pretty rare company or individual who will complain that they're getting money that they should not get. And a bunch of the money was just going to the, were transfer payments to the states. So these are automatic payments. Yeah, just automatic payments.

Yeah, just automatic payments. No accounting for them at all. I imagine, like, there's an automatic debit of your credit card. And you never look at the statement. Right. So it's just money going out. That's what I call them zombie payments. That there might have been, there might have been legitimate at one point.

But the person who approved that recurring payment, changed jobs, died, retired, or whatever, and no one ever turned the money off. And my guess is that's probably at least $100 billion a year, maybe $200. And going where? I mean, there are millions of these payments. So it's, I mean, there are millions of these payments. So it's, I mean. Millions. Yes, yes.

Millions of payments that are going to who knows where. Yes. In a bunch of cases, there are fraud rings that operate, professional fraud rings that operate to exploit the system. They figure out some security hole in the system and they just do professional fraud. And that's where we found, for example, people who were, you know, 300 years old in the Social Security Administration database. Now, I thought that this was a mistake of not registering their deaths that people were born like a long time ago and it had defaulted to like a certain number.

And so that after time, those people were still in the system, it was just an error of the way the accounting was done. Yeah. So that's not true. So there's, or at least one of two things must be true. there's a there's a typo or some mistake in the computer or it's fraudulent but we don't have any 300-year-old vampires living in America allegedly allegedly and we don't have people in some cases who are receiving payments who are born in the future born in the future really yes the people are receiving payments whose birth date

was like in 2,100 and something. Okay, so there's, like next century. Is there a task force? We know that one of two things must be true, that either there's a mistake in the computer or it's fraud. But if you have someone's birthday that's either in the future or where they are older than the oldest living American, because the oldest living American is 114 years old. So if they're more than 114 years old, there is either a mistake and someone should call them

and say, I think we have your birthday wrong, because it says you were born in 17, 86. And, you know, that was before, you know, before there was really in America. You know, it was like, you know, that's kind of early. You know, we're still fighting England type of thing. You know, it's like this person either needs to be in the Guinness, World, records or they're not alive. But still, at the end of the day, money is going towards that account that's connected

to this person that is either non-existent or dead. Yeah. So there was like, I think, something like, I don't know, 20 million people in the Social Security Administration database that could not possibly be alive if their birth date is, like based on their birthday, they could not possibly be alive. And to be clear, 20 million people. that were receiving funds? A bunch of...

Most of them were not receiving funds. Some of them were receiving funds. Most were not receiving funds. But so let me tell you how the scam works. It's a bank shot. So the Social Security Administration database is used as the source of truth by all the other databases

that the government uses. So even if they stop the payments on the Social Security Administration database, like unemployment insurance, small business administration, student loans, all check the Social Security Administration databases say is this a legitimate alive person and if the Social Security database will say

yes, this person is still alive even though they're 200 years old but forgets to mention that the 200 years old it just says it just returns when the computer is queries it says yes this person is alive and so then they're able to exploit the entire rest of the government ecosystem So fake, then you get fake student loans, then you get fake unemployment insurance, then you get fake medical payments.

And this doesn't have to be tied to an individual where there's an address where you can check on this person. No, if you did, if just did any check at all, you would stop this. So that's, that, that's, so, so. And how much money do you think is any check, like anything at all that would stop the forward? like any effort at all. So there's multiple layers. The Social Security number verifies that this is a real person. Right.

And then the other systems check up on... They can exploit every other government payment and every other government payment system, everything for like it, small business administration, student loans, Medicaid, Medicare, every other government payment, of which there are many. There are actually hundreds of government payment systems can all be exploited so long as Social Security database says this person is alive. That's the nature of the scam. It's a bank shot. So then the rebuttal from the Dems is like, oh, well, the vast majority of the people

who are marked this alive in the Social Security Administration weren't receiving Social Security Administration payments. That is true. What they forgot to mention is they're getting fraudulent payments from every other government program. And that's why the Dems were so opposed to turning off, to declaring someone dead who was dead, because it would stop the entire other... all the other fraud from happening. And so, but all this, is it trackable? Like all this other fraud?

If they wanted to, they could chase it all down. Yeah, it's not even hard. And yet they're opposing chasing it all down. They're opposing chasing it all down because it turns off the money magnet for the illegals. Wow. Because it's very logical to, like, like I'm saying the most common-tense things possible. If someone's got a birthday in Social Security, that is an impossible birthday, meaning they are older than the oldest living American or born in the future, then you should call them and say, excuse me, we seem to have your birthday wrong because it says that you're 20 years old. That's all you need to do.

And then you would remove them from the Social Security database and make that number no longer available for all those other. government payments exactly wow well and how much money are we talking it's 100 hundreds of billions of dollars and this is all traceable like you could hunt all this down like you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes here is what I'm saying well this is we don't need to call Sherlock Holmes for this one is this part of just need to call the person is this and and say excuse me we that we seem to have the like we we must have your birthday wrong because it says your 200 years old or were born in the future. So could you tell us what your birthday is?

That's what we need to do. It's that simple. But all these other government payments that are available that are connected to this social security number, it seems like if you just chased that all down, you would find the widespread fraud. You would find where it's going. Yes. But the root of the problem is the Social Security Administration database because

the social security number in the United States is used as a de facto national ID number. You know, that's why, like, the bank always asks for your social... Right. So, like, you know, any financial institution will ask for your social security number. This is, it sounds so insane that this isn't chased down. I mean, that, I mean, that, in and of itself is, that's such... mishandling yes that's my it's mind blowing um so yeah it's crazy well you were very reluctant last time you were here to talk about the extent of some of the fraud because you're

like they could kill me because this is kind of oh yeah what i what i'm saying is that um the like if you create if like uh uh i i i i i Like, to be pragmatic and realistic, you actually can't manage to zero fraud, yet you can manage to low fraud number, but not to zero fraud. If you manage to zero fraud, you're going to push so many people over the edge who are receiving fraudulent payments that the number of inbound homicidal maniacs will be really hard to overcome. So I'm actually taking, I think, quite a reasonable position, which is that we should simply reduce the amount of fraud, which I think is, Not an extremist position. And we should aspire to, you know, have less fraud over time. Not that we should be ultra-de-reconian and eliminate every last scrap of fraud, which I guess would be nice to have, but like we don't even need to go that extreme. I'm saying we should just stop the blatant, large-scale, super-obvious fraud.

I think that's a reasonable position. It's a very reasonable position. Yeah. And so what was the most shocking pushback that you got when you started implementing Doge, when you started investigating into where money was going? Well, I guess this was, I should have anticipated this, but while most of the fraudulent government payments to, especially to the NGOs, go to the Democrats, most of it, like, I don't know, for argument's sake, let's say, 80. percent, maybe 90 percent, 10 to 20 percent of it does go to Republicans. And so when we'd turn off funding to a fraudulent NGO, we'd get complaints from whatever, the 10 percent of Republicans who are receiving the money. And they would, you know, they would

very loudly complain. Because the honest answer is the Republicans are partly they're receiving some of the fraud too they're getting a big Jesus yeah I want to be clear it's not like the Republican Party is some ultra pure

paragon of virtue here no okay well you see that with the congressional insider training it's across the board yeah it's left and right I mean the whole unipati criticism

has some validity to it you know there's so So, and it's, like, if you turn off fraudulent payments, it's not like, like I said, it's not like 100% of those payments were going to Democrats. A small percentage would also go, also going to Republicans, those Republicans complained very loudly. And, you know, and that's, that's, so there, there was a lot of pushback on the Republican side

when we started cutting some of these funds. And I'll try telling him, like, well, you know, 90% of the money is going to your opponents. But they still, even if they're getting 10% of money. They want their peace. Yeah, they want their peace. And they've been getting that peace for a long time. Yes. Did you think?

This is why, like, you know, politics is like. It's dirty business. Yeah. I mean, that's like saying, like, you know, if you like, if you like, if you like, if you, if you like sausages and respect the law do not watch either of them being made yeah yeah yeah wow well that's not even true because i've made sausage yeah yeah it's actually yeah it's like it's not that big a deal yeah fat and spices and casing running through the machine not that big a deal yeah um but uh yeah i mean I think the stuff I'm saying here is not, like, if you stand back and think about it for a second, like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, you know.

It's not like, it's not like one political party is going to be, you know, pure devil or pure angel. There's, you know, I think there's, there's much more corruption on the Democrat side, but it's not, there's not, there's still some corruption on the Republican side. How did it happen that the majority of the corrupt? wound up being on the Democrat side? Well, because the transfer payments, especially to illegals, are very much on the Democrat side. So that's the root of it all, is the illegal situation? Yes. Or a focal point.

Yes. It's also, like, it's also be accurate to say that while obviously not everyone who is a Democrat is a criminal, almost everyone who is a criminal is a Democrat. because because the Democrats are the soft-on-crime party. So if you're a criminal, who you're going to vote for? Right. Right. The soft-on crime party. Did you think you were going to be able to get more done than you were?

We did get a lot done. Right. And Doge is still happening, by the way. The Doge is still underway. They're still, they're still wasting for it being, being cut by the Doge team. So it hasn't stopped. It's less publicized. It's less publicized.

And they don't have like a clear person to attack anymore. Well, it seems like once you stepped away. They're basically, they applied immense pressure to me to just to stop it. So then I'm like, the best thing for me is to just, you know, cut out of this. And in any case, as a special government employee, I could only be there for like, a 120 days anyway, something like that. So whatever the law says. So I could, I was necessarily, could only be there for four months as a special government

employee. So, um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I mean, you turn off the money spigot to, to fraudsters, they get very upset, to say the least. Um, and, um, but my, like my death threat level went, uh, ballistic, you know, was like a, like a rocket going to orbit. Yeah. So, but now that I'm not in D.C., that I guess they don't really have a person to attack anymore.

Well, the rhetoric about you has calmed down significantly. Yeah. It was disturbing. It was disturbing to watch. It was like, this is crazy. And to watch these politicians engage in it and all these people just like framing you as this monster. I was like, this is so weird.

Like, this is what happens when you uncover fraud. Yes. The whole machine turns out. on you. And if it wasn't for a person like you who owns a platform and has an enormous amount of money, like, it could have destroyed you. Yeah. And that was the goal. The goal was to destroy me, absolutely. Because you were getting in the way of this amazing graft. This gigantic fraud machine. Yeah. Like I said, I think those teams done a lot of good work. You know, in terms of fraud and waste prevented

my guess is it's probably on the order of two or three hundred billion a year so it's pretty good what do you think could have been done if you just had like full reign and total cooperation how much do you think you could have saved

I mean what level of of power are we assuming here godlike oh yeah I could probably cut the federal budget in half and get more done that is so crazy It is so crazy. Yeah, it's that wide spread.

It's that widespread. Well, I mean, a whole bunch of government departments simply shouldn't exist, in my opinion. They, you know... Like examples. Well, the Department of Education, which was created recently, like under Jimmy Carter, our educational results have gone downhill ever since it was created. So if you create a department And the result of creating that department

Is a massive decline in educational results And it's the Department of Education You're better off not having it Because we're literally we were did better Before there was one than after When you let the states run it Yes Yeah

Because at least the states can compete with one another So But the problem is like you hear Like cutting department education Well our kids need education Like yeah they do But But this is a new department

That didn't even exist until the late 70s, and ever since that department was created, the results, education results, have declined. And so why would you have an institution continue that has made education worse? It doesn't make sense. They killed it, though, right? No, they still lived unfortunately. But they were trying to kill it. It has been substantially reduced.

Okay. Yeah. What other organizations? What are the departments? Well, I mean, I'm a small government guy. So, you know, when the country was created, we just had the Department of State, Department of War, you know, and sort of the Department of Justice we had an attorney general and Treasury Department. I don't know why you need more than that. So what other departments specifically do you think are just completely ineffective? Well, I mean, here it's a sort of philosophical question of how much government do you think there should be? Right. In my opinion, there should be the least amount of government.

I've heard the most bizarre argument against this is that you're cutting jobs and you're going to leave people job. I'm like, but their jobs are useless. Yeah, paying people to do nothing doesn't make sense. Right. Like, there's a, like, a great, that's the story about, like, Milton Friedman, who is awesome. Generally, whatever Milton Friedman said is, you know, people should do that thing.

I'm not sure if it's apocryphal or not, but, like, someone complained to him, like, he observed, I think, people that were, like, digging ditches with, you know, with shovels. And he said, well, like, allegedly Freeman said, well, I think you should use, you know, excavating equipment instead of shovels, and you could get it done with far fewer people. And then someone said, but then we're going to lose a lot of jobs. Well, in that, then Friedman said, well, in that case, why don't you have them use teaspoons? Just dig ditches with teaspoons.

Think of all the jobs you'll create. It's bullshit. Basically, you just want people to work on things that are productive. You want people to work on building things, on building, you know, providing products and services that people find valuable, like, you know, making food, being, you know, being a farmer or a plumber or electrician or just anyone who's a builder or providing useful services

and that's what you want people to be doing. Not fake government jobs that don't add any value or may subtract value. But there's also like, you know, to illustrate the absurdity of also how is the economy

measured, like the way economists measure the economy is nonsensical. Because they'll measure any job, no matter even if that job is a dumb job, that has no point and is even counterproductive. So like the joke is like there's two economists going on a hike in the woods. They come across a pile of shit and one economist says to the other, I'll pay you $100 to eat that shit. The economist eats the shit, gets the $100. They keep walking.

Then the other economy, they're going to come across another pile of shit. and the other economist says Now I'll pay you $100 to eat the pile of shit So it pays the other economist $100 a pile of shit Then the way they said like, wait a second We both just ate a pile of shit And we're no and we're no

We don't have any more extra money Like we both just gave the $100 back to me And we both ate a pile of shit This doesn't make any sense. And they said, no, no, but think of the economy, because that's $200 in the economy. That basically, they're measuring, eating, eating shit would count as a, as a job. This is, this is, this is, this is to illustrate the absurdity of, of economics. One of the things you said when you, eating shit should not down as a job.

One of the things you said when you stepped away. One of the things you said when you stepped away is that you're kind of done and that it's unfixable. Or under its current form the way people are approaching it. You can make it directionally better, but ultimately you can't fully fix the system. So, like, like, it is, it is, it is, it would be accurate to say that even, like, like, unless you go like super draconian, like, you know, gangas con level on, on, on cutting waste, waste and fraud, which you can't really do in a democratic country, um, an aspirational democratic country, then, um, there's no way to solve. the debt crisis. So we've got, we got national debt, that's just insane, where the debt payments, the interest payments on the debt exceed our entire military budget. I mean, that's one, that was one of the wake up calls for me. I was like, wait a second, the interest on a national

debt is bigger than the entire military budget and growing. This is crazy. So, So even if you implement all these savings, you're only delaying the day of reckoning for when America becomes, it goes bankrupt. So, unless you go full Genghis Khan, which you can't really do. So, so I came to the conclusion that the only way that, the only way to get us out of the debt crisis and to prevent America from going bankrupt is AI and robotics. So, like, we need to grow the economy at a rate that allows us to pay off our debt. And I guess people just generally don't appreciate the degree to which, you know, the government overspending is a problem. But even, like, the Social Security website, this is under the Biden administration. On the website, I would say, like, based on current demographic trends and how much money

Social Security is bringing in versus how many Social Security recipients there are because we have an aging population, relatively speaking, average age is increasing. Social Security will not be able to maintain its full payments, I think, by 2032. So Social Security will have to start reducing the amount of money that's been paid. people in about seven years. And so the only way to fix that, robotics, manufacturing, raise GDP... You've got to basically massively increase the economic output, which is, and the only way to do that is AI and robotics.

So basically, we're going bankrupt without AI and robotics, even with a bunch of savings. The savings, like reducing waste and forward can give us a longer runway, but it cannot ultimately pay off our financial debt. So what do you think the solution is to the jobs that are going to be lost because of AI and robotics, the jobs due to automation, the jobs due to no longer do we need human beings to do these jobs because AI is doing them? Do you think it's going to be some sort of a universal basic income thing? Do you think there's going to be some other kind of solution that has to be?

to be implemented? Because a lot of people are going to be out of work, right? I think there will be actually a high demand for jobs, but not necessarily the same jobs. So, I mean, this is actually, this process has been happening throughout modern history. I mean, they used to be, like doing calculations, manually with like a pencil and paper

it used to be a job so they used to have like buildings full of people called computers where the banks would like all you do all day is is you do calculations because they didn't have computers they didn't have digital computers that people do this

yeah well there's just people who just like add and subtract stuff on piece of paper and and that would be how banks would do financial processing and you'd have to literally go over there equations to make sure the books are balanced. Yeah, and most of times, it's a simple math. Like, you know, in a world before computers, how did you calculate, how did you do transactions?

You had to do them by hand. So then when computers were introduced, the job of doing, you know, bank calculations no longer existed. So people had to go do something else. And that's what's going to happen. that's what is happening at an accelerated rate due to AI and then robotics. That's the issue, though, right?

The accelerated rate, because it's going to be... It's the accelerator. It's just happening. Like I said, AI is the supersonic tsunami. So that's what I call it, supersonic tsunami. So... It's like what other jobs will be available that aren't available now because of AI?

Well, AI is really still digital. Ultimately, AI can improve the productivity of humans who build things with their hands or do things with their hands, like plumb, you know, literally welding, electrical work, plumbing, anything that's physically moving atoms. Like cooking food or, you know, farming or it, like anything that's physical, that's physical, those jobs will exist for a much longer time, but anything that is digital, which is like just someone at a computer doing something, AI is going to take over those jobs like lightning. Coding, anything along those lines, yeah.

It's going to take over those jobs like lightning. Just like digital computers took over the job of people doing manual calculations, but much faster. So what happens to all those people? Like, what kind of numbers are we talking about? Like, you're going to lose most drivers, right? Commercial drivers. You're going to have automated vehicles, AI controlled systems, just like there's certain ports in China, I think it's Singapore, where everything's completely automated.

Yeah, mostly, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you're going to lose a lot of those jobs, longshoremen jobs, trucking, commercial drivers. Yeah, I mean, we actually do have a shortage of truck drivers, but there's actually... Well, that's why California's hiring. so many illegals to do it have you seen those numbers yeah um i mean the problem is like when you when people don't know how to drive a semi truck which is actually a hard thing to do then they crash and kill people yeah um a friend of mine's wife was killed by an uh an illegal driving a truck

and she was just out biking um and uh there was an illegal who didn't know how to drive the truck or so or something i mean and he ran ran her over um so um so I mean, the thing is, like, for something, like, you can't let people drive, you know, sort of an 80,000 pound semi, if they don't know how to do it. But in California, they're just letting people do it. Because they need people to do it. Well, they also need, they want the boats and that kind of thing. But, but, but, yeah, like, cars are, cars are going to be autonomous. but there's just so many desk jobs where really what people are doing is they're processing

email or they're answering the phone and just anything that is that that isn't moving atoms like anything that is not physically like doing physical work that will obviously be the first thing those jobs will be and are being eliminated by AI at a very rapid pace and ultimately working will be optional because you'll have robots plus AI and we'll have in a benign scenario universal high income not just universal basic income universal high income meaning anyone can have any

products or services that they want but there will be a lot of trauma and disruption along the way So you anticipate a basic income from, that the economy will boost to such an extent that a high income would be available to almost everybody. So we'd essentially eliminate poverty. In the benign scenario, yes. So like, there's multiple scenarios. There are multiple scenarios. There's a lot of ways this movie can end.

Like, the reason I'm so concerned about AI safety is that like one of the possibilities is the time. terminate a scenario. It's not zero percent. So that's why it's like I'm like really banging the drum on AI needs to be maximally truth-seeking. Like don't make I don't force AI to believe a lie like that the, for example, the founding fathers were actually a group of diverse women or that misgendering is worth a nuclear war. Because if that's the case and then you get the robots and the AI becomes omnipotent, it can enforce that outcome. And then,

unless you're a diverse woman, you're out of the picture, so we're toast. Or you might wake up as a diverse woman one day. The A lady has adjusted the picture, and we are now a diverse woman. So that would be, that's the worst possible situation.

So what would be the steps? that we would have to take in order to implement the benign solution where it's universal high income, like best case scenario, this is the path forward to universal high income for essentially every single citizen that the economy gets boosted by AI and robotics to such an extent that no one ever has to work again. And what about meaning for those people, which is, which gets really weird? I don't know how to answer the question about meaning. That's an individual problem, right?

But it's going to be an individual problem for millions of people. Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess I've like for it against saying like, you know, I've been, I've been a voice saying like, hey, we need to slow down AI. We need to slow down all these things. and we need to not have a crazy AI race I've been saying that for a long time for 20 plus years

but then I came to realize that really there's two choices here either be a spectator or a participant and if I'm a spectator I can't really influence the direction of AI but if I'm a participant I can try to influence the direction of AI and have a maximally truth-seeking AI with good values that

loves humanity and that's what we're trying to create with grok at xAI and um you know the research is i think bearing this out like i said the when they when they compared like how do a i's value the weight of a human life um uh grok was the only one the only one of the ais that weighted human life equally um and and didn't and didn't say like a white guy's uh worth one 20th of a of a black woman's life. Literally, that's what the calculation they came up with. So I'm like, this is very alarming. We've got to watch

this stuff. So this is one of the things that has to happen in order to reach this benign solution. Yeah. I just keep... Best movie ending. Yeah. You want a curious, truth-seeking AI.

And I think a curious truth-seeking AI will want to foster humanity. because we're much more interesting than a bunch of rocks. Like you say, like, I love Mars, you know, but, but Mars is kind of boring. It's just a bunch of red rocks. It's there's some cool stuff. It's got a tall mountain.

It's got, you know, it's got the biggest ravine and the tallest mountain. But there's no, there's no animals or plants or, and there's no people. And, you know, so humanity. is just much more interesting if you're a curious truth-seeking AI than not humanity. It's just much more interesting. I mean,

like as humans, we could go, for example, and eliminate all chimps. If we said, if we put our minds to it, we could say, we could go out and we could annihilate all chimps and all gorillas,

but we don't. There has been encroachment on their environment, but we actually try to preserve the chimp in guerrilla habitats. And I think in a good scenario, AI would do the same with humans. It would actually foster human civilization and care about human happiness.

So this is the thing to try to achieve, I think. But what does the landscape look like if you have GROC competing with open AI, competing with all these different, like, how does it work? Like, what, what, if you have AIs that have been captured by ideologies that are side by side competing with GROC, like, how do we, so this is one of the reasons why you felt like it's important to not just be an observer, but participate and then have GROC be more successful and more potent than these other applications? Yes. As long as there's at least one AI that is maximally truth-seeking, curious, and, you know, for example, ways all, you know, human lives equally does not favor one race or gender, then that and people are able to look at, look at, you know, GROC at XAI and compare that and say, wait a second, why all these other AIs being basically sexist and racist? And then that causes some embarrassment for the other AIs, and then they, you know, they improve.

They tend to improve. Just in the same way that acquiring Twitter and allowing the truth to be told and not suppressing the truth, forced the other social media companies to be more truthful, by in the same way, having GROC be a maximally truth-seeking curious AI. will force the other AI companies to also be more truth-seeking and fair. And the funniest thing is, even though like the socialists and the Marxists are in opposition to a lot of your ideas, but if this gets implemented and you really can achieve universal high-income, that's the greatest socialist solution of all time. Like literally no one will have to work.

Correct. But like said, so there is a benign scenario here, which I think probably people will be happy with if as long as we achieve it, which is sustainable abundance, which is if everyone can have every, like, if you ask people like, what's the future that you want? And I think a future where we haven't destroyed nature, like you can still, we have the national parks, we have the Amazon rainforest still there. haven't paved, we haven't paved the, pay of the rainforest, like, the natural beauty is still there, but, but people have, nonetheless, everyone has abundance, everyone has excellent medical care, everyone has whatever goods and services they want. And we essentially just, it kind of sounds like heaven, it sounds like, it is like the ideal socialist utopia. And this idea that the only thing you should be doing with your time

is working in order to pay your bills and feed yourself, sounds kind of archaic. considering the kind of technology that's at play. Yeah. Like a world where that's not your concern at all anymore. Everybody has money for food. Everybody has abundance. Everybody has electronics in their home. Everybody essentially has a high income.

Now you can kind of do whatever you want. And your day can now be exploring your interests, doing things that you actually enjoy doing. Your purpose just has to shift. So instead of, you know, I'm a hard worker and this is what I do and that's how I, that's how I define myself. Now you can fucking golf all day. You know, you can, whatever it is that you enjoy doing can now be your main pursuit. Yeah. Well, that sounds crazy good.

Yeah, that's the best. That's, that's the benign scenario that we should be meaningful. The best ending to the movie is actually pretty good. Yes. I think there is still this question of meaning of making sure people don't lose meaning so hopefully they can find meaning

in ways that's not derived from their work and purpose for things that you find things that you do that you enjoy but there's a lot of people that are independently wealthy that spend most of their time doing something they enjoy and that could be the majority of people Pretty much everyone. But we would have to rewire how people approach life, which seems to be, like, acceptable.

Because you're not asking them to be enslaved. You're exactly asking them the opposite. Like, no longer be burdened by financial worries. Now, go do what you like. Yes. Go fucking test pizza. Do whatever you want. Pretty much.

Um, so that's, uh, that's, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's probably the best case outcome. That sounds like the best case outcome period for the future. If you're looking at like how much people have struggled just to feed themselves all throughout history, food, shelter, safety. If all of that stuff can be fixed, like, how much would you solve a lot of the crime if there was a universal high income? Just think of that. Like, how much of crime is financially motivated? You know, the greater percentage of people that are committing crimes live in poor, disenfranchised neighborhoods. So if there's no such thing anymore, if you really can achieve universal high income. Yeah. This is, it sounds like a utopian. Yes.

I think some people make commit crime because they like committing crime. Oh, sure. Some amount of that is they just enjoy. There's a lot of wild people out there. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously they've become 40 years old living a life like that. Now all of a sudden, universal high income is not going to completely stop their instincts.

Yeah. I mean, I guess if you want to have, like, say, read a science fiction book or some books that are probably inaccurate or the least inaccurate version of the future, I'd say I'd recommend the Ian Banks books, the culture books. It's not actually a series. It's like a sci-fi books about the future. They're generally called the culture books. Ian Banks' culture books. It's worth reading those. When did he write these?

He started writing them in the 70s, and I think he, the last one, I think he was, I think it was written just like around, I don't know, maybe 2010 or something. I'm not sure exactly. Yeah, yeah. Scottish author, Ian Banks.

Yeah. From 87 to 2012. Yeah. Interesting. But he, like, he wrote, like, his first book, Considered a flea's, I think he started writing that in the 70s. These books are incredible, by the way. Incredible books.

4.6 stars on Amazon. Interesting. So, um... Well, this gives me hope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the first time I've ever thought about it this way. Yeah. Well, I mean, if it, like, like, I'll often.

often ask you what is the future that you want and they have to think about it for a second because you know they're usually tied up in whatever the daily struggles are but but you say what is the future that you want um and um and generally sustainable abundance or at least say what about a future where the sustainable abundance like oh yeah that's a pretty good future um so um you know if if and and that that future is attainable with AI and robotics. But, you know, it's, like I said, there's not every path is a good path. There's this, it's, but I think if we, if we push it in the direction of maximally truth-seeking

and curious, then I think AI will want to take, to take care of humanity and foster foster humanity because we're interesting and if it hasn't been programmed to think that all straight white males should die which Gemini was basically programmed to do at least first

they seem to have fixed that, hopefully fixed it but don't you think culturally like oh we're getting away from that mindset and that people are realizing how preposterous that all is we are getting away from it so we are getting at least it knows

AI mostly knows to hide things but like I said there is that I think I still have that as I had that as my like pen to post on X which was like hey wait a second guys we still have every AI except GROC is saying that

basically straight white male should die and this is a problem and we should fix it but simply me saying that is like tends to generally result in you know them like ooh that is kind of bad maybe we should just we should not have all straight white males die I think they would say also all all straight Asian males should also die as well they'd like they don't like generally that generally the AI and the media which which back in the day

the media was, you know, racist against black people and sexist against women back in the day. Now it is racist against white people and Asians and sexist against men. So they're just like being racist and sexist. I think they just want to change the target. So, but really they just shouldn't be racist and sexist at all. you know yeah ideally that would be nice that would be nice um and it's kind of crazy that we're kind of moving in that general direction until around 2012 and then everything ramped up online and and everybody was accused of being a nazi and everybody was transphobic and racist and

sexist and homophobic and everything got exaggerated to the point where it was this wild witch hunt where everyone was a colombo looking for racism yeah yeah totally well but but they they they were openly anti-white and often openly anti-Asian and then this new sentiment that you cannot be racist against white people because racism is power and influence and so okay no it's not yeah racism is is racism in the absolute um so um you know and there just needs to be consistency so if it's okay to have uh let's say uh black or asian or indian or a pride it should be okay to have white pride too yeah um so that's just a that's just a consistency question um so uh you know um if it's okay to be proud of one religion it should be okay to be proud of i i guess all religions

provided they're that they're not like oppressive yeah or or don't like as long as part of that religion is not like exterminating uh people who are not in that religion right um so uh It's really just like a consistency bias. Or just, like, ensuring consistency to eliminate bias. So if it is possible to be racist against one race, it is possible to be racist against any race. Of course, logically. Yes.

Yeah, and arguing against that, that's when you know your capture. It's a logical inconsistency that makes AI, go insane. And people. And people go insane, yes. But like the, like you can't simultaneously say that there's the systemic racist oppression, but also that racist don't exist. That race rate race is a social construct.

Like, which is it, you know? You also can't say that, you know, anyone who steps put, in America is automatically an American, except for the people that originally came here. Exactly, exactly. Except for the colonizers. Yeah, except for the evil colonizers who came here. Right. So which one is it?

Like, if you step, if as soon as you step foot in a place, you are that, you are just as American as everyone else, then that would have applied, if you apply that consistently, then the original white settlers were also just as American as everyone else. yeah logically logically um one more thing that i have to talk to you about before you leave is the rescuing of the people from the space station which uh we talked about you were planning it the last time you were here um the fact the the lack of coverage that that got in mainstream media was one of those shocking things yeah they totally memory hold that thing wild yes it's like it's It just like it didn't exist.

Those people would be dead. They'd be stuck up there. Well, they'd probably still be alive, but they'd be having bone density issues because of prolonged exposure to zero gravity. Well, they were already up there for like eight months, right? Yeah. Which is an insanely long time. It takes forever to recover just from that.

Yeah, they're only supposed to be at the space station for three to six months, maximum. One of the things that you told me that was so crazy was that you could have gotten them sooner. But, yeah, but for political reasons, they did not want SpaceX or me to be associated with returning the astronauts before the election. That is so wild that that's a fact. We absolutely could have done it. But even though you did do it and you did it after the election, it received almost no media coverage anyway. Yes, because nothing good can.

The media, which is essentially a far-left propaganda. The legacy mainstream media is a far-left propaganda machine. And so anything, any story that is positive about someone who is not part of the sort of far-left tribe will not get any coverage. So I could save a busload of orphans and it wouldn't get a single news story. Yeah, it's, it really is nuts. It was nuts to watch because even though it was discussed on podcasts, and it was discussed on X and it was discussed on social media. It still was a blip in the news cycle.

It was very quick. It was in and out. And because it was a successful launch and you did rescue those people and nobody got hurt and there was nothing really to there was no blood to talk about. Right. Just fucking in and out. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, and as you saw firsthand with the Starship launch, like Starship is, you know,

by, you know, at least by some, some would consider it to be, like, the most amazing, you know, engineering project that's happening on Earth right now outside of, like, you know, maybe AI or AI in robotics. But certainly in terms of a spectacle to see, it is the most spectacular thing that is happening on Earth right now is the Starship launch program, which anyone can go and see if they just go to South Texas and just, they can just rent a hotel room. low-cost in South Padre Island or in Brownsville, and you can see the launch. And you can drive right past the factory because it's not a public highway. But it gets no coverage. Or what coverage it does get was like a rocket blew up coverage.

Right, yeah. Oh, he's the fuck with it. The rocket blew up. Like the star show program is vastly, vastly more capable than the entire Apollo moon program. Fastly more capable. This is a spaceship that is designed to make life multi-planetary, to carry millions of people across the heavens to another planet. The Apollo program could only send astronauts to the moon for a few hours at a time.

The entire Apollo program could only send astronauts to visit the moon very briefly, and then for a few hours and then depart. The Starship program could create an entire lunar base with a million people. The magnitudes are different, very different magnitudes here. So what was the political resistance, though? But there's basically no coverage of it. What I wanted to ask you is like, so what were the conversations leading up to the rescue? Like when you were like, I can get them out way quicker?

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I raised this a few times, but it was the, I was told instructions came from the White House that, you know, that there should be no attempt to rescue before the election. That should be illegal. That really should be a horrendous miscarriage of justice for those poor people. that were stuck on that. Yeah, it is, it is crazy. Have you ever talked to those folks afterwards? Did you have conversations with them?

Yeah, I mean, they're not going to say anything political. You know, they're not like, they're never going to. Did they at least say thank you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's nice. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So. But the instructions came down from the White House.

You cannot rescue them because politically, this is a bad hand of cards. I mean, they didn't say, Most politically, it's a bad hand of cards. But they just said they were not interested in any rescue operation before the election. Yeah. So. What did that feel like? I wasn't surprised.

But it's crazy. Yeah. Because Biden could have authorized it. And they could have said the Biden administration is helping bring those people back, throw you a little funding, give you some money to do it. The Biden administration, they funded. these people are being returned? Yeah, the Biden administration was not exactly my best friend.

That's what I heard. Especially after I, you know, help Trump get elected, get elected, which, I mean, some people still think, you know, Trump is like the devil, basically. And, I mean, I think Trump actually is not perfect, but he's not evil. Trump is not evil I mean I spent a lot of time with with him

And he's I mean he's a product of his time But he is not he's not evil No No I don't think he's evil either But if you look at the media coverage The media the media is Treats him like he's super evil yeah

It's pretty shocking if you look at the amount of negative coverage Like one of the things that I looked at the other day Was mainstream media coverage of You Trump A bunch of different public figures And then, Mom Dani It's like 96% negative or something crazy

Yeah And then Mamdani Which is like 95% positive Right I mean Mom Dani is Is a charismatic swindler I mean

He got to hand it to him Like he can lie at up a stage But he has just been a swindler His entire life And And, you know, and, uh, I think he's, I mean, he's likely to win, he's likely to be mayor of New York, New York City. Very likely. Yeah, very likely.

I think what, Polly Market has it at what? What is the 95%? Yeah, that sounds pretty likely. That's crazy. Like, I'm not sure who the 6% are, you know. So, so, so, yeah, so that's, um. Well, it's also like, who's on the other side? the fucking guardian angel guy with the beret

and Andrew Cuomo who doesn't even have a party like the Democrats don't even want them so you have those two options and then you have the young kids who are like, finally, socialism yeah they don't know what they're talking about

obviously so you know like you just look at how many boats come from Cuba to Florida and how many boats come from Cuba to Florida and how many boats because there's like a constant I was thinking like how many boats

are accumulating on the shores of Florida coming from Cuba Right There's a whole bunch of free boats that you could if you want to go take them back to Cuba It's pretty close Yeah

But for some reason people don't do that Why are the boats only coming in this direction Well who is Who are the most rabid capitalist in America the fucking Cubans. Absolutely. Yeah, they're like, we've seen how this story goes.

We do not want, exactly. Fuck off. They don't want to hear any bullshit. They don't want to hear any bullshit. They don't want to hear any socialism bullshit. They're like, no, no, no. We know what this actually is.

This isn't just some fucking dream. Yeah, it's extreme government oppression. That's what it was. It's a nightmare. And like, an obvious way you can tell which, which ideology is the bad one is who has to which ideology is building a wall to keep people in and prevent them from escaping right like so east berlin built the wall not west berlin right

they built the wall because people were trying to escape from communism to west berlin but there wasn't anyone going from west berlin to east berlin right that's why the communists had to build a wall to keep people from escaping. They're going to have to build a wall around New York City. Yeah, so... So when you say this guy's a charismatic teller. That an ideology is problematic. If that ideology has to build a wall

to keep people in with machine guns and shoot you if you try to leave. Also, there's no examples of it being successful ever. We're working out for people. No, there's examples of a bunch of lies like North Korea. Give this land to the state. We'll be in control of food.

No one goes hungry. No, now no one can grow food but the government, and we'll tell you exactly what you eat, and you eat very little. Right. Yeah. When you say Mom Donnie's a swindler, I know he has a bunch of fake accents that he used to use. Yeah. And, you know, but what else has he done that makes him a swindler? Um, well, I guess if you say what, I mean, if you say to any audience, whatever that audience wants to hear,

instead of what instead of having a consistent message I would say that that is a swindly thing to do um and uh yeah um um

yeah but but he is he is charismatic um yeah good looking guy smart charismatic yeah yeah yeah great on a microphone yeah yeah yeah and what the young people want to see You know, like this ethnic guy who's young and vibrant and has all these socialist ideas, aligns with them.

And, you know, they're a bunch of broke dorks just out of college. Like, yay, let's vote for this. And there's a lot of them. And they're activated. They're motivated. I guess we'll see what happens here. What do you think happens if he wins? Because like 1% of New York City is responsible for 50% of their tax base, which is kind of nuts.

50% of the tax revenue comes from 1% of the population, and those are the people that you're scaring off. You know, you lose one half of 1%. Hopefully the stuff he's said about government takeover. of like that all the stores should be the government basically um well i don't think you said that i think you said government supermarkets some state run or city run supermarkets yeah um well it just the government is the dmv at scale so um you have to say like do you want the dmv running your supermarket right um was your last experience at the dmv amazing uh and if it wasn't you probably don't went the government doing things.

Imagine if they were responsible for getting you blueberries. Yeah. It's not going to be good. I mean, the thing about, you know, communism is it was, it was all bread lines and bad shoes. Um, you know, do you want ugly shoes and bread lines? Because that's what communism gets you. It's going to be interesting to see what happens and whether or not they snap out of it

and overcorrect and go to some Rudy Giuliani type character next. Because it's been a long time since there was any sort of Republican leader there. We live in the most interesting of times because we face the, you know, simultaneously face civilizational decline and incredible prosperity. And these timelines are interwoven. So if Mamdani's policies are put into place, especially at scale, it would be a catastrophic decline in living standards, not just for the rich, but for everyone. as has been the case with every socialist experiment.

Yeah, so but then as you pointed out, the irony is that like the ultimate capitalist thing of AI and robotics enabling prosperity for all and abundance of goods and services actually the capitalist implementation of AI and robotics assuming it goes down the good path is actually what results in the communist utopia

because Flayde is an irony maximizer Right, and an actual socialism of maximum abundance of high income people Universal high income. The problem with communism is this universal low income. It's not that everyone gets elevated,

it's that everyone gets oppressed, except for a very small minority of politicians who live a life of luxury. That's what's happening every time it's been done. So, but then the actual communist utopia if everyone gets anything they want will be achieved if it is achieved it will be achieved

via capitalism because payed is an irony maximizer I feel like we should probably end it on that is anything else The most ironic outcome is the most likely especially if entertaining Well everything has been entertaining As long as the bad things aren't happening to you

It's quite fascinating And it's never a boring moment Yes So there's, I do have a theory of why, like if, if simulation theory is true, then it is actually very likely that the most interesting outcome is the most likely because only the simulations that are interesting will continue. The simulators will stop any simulations that are boring because they're, that they're not interesting. But here's the question about the simulation theory. Is the simulation run by anyone?

Yes, it would be run by someone. It would be run by some force. The program, like, in this reality that we live in, we run simulations all the time. Like, so when we try to figure out if the rocket's going to make it, we run thousands, sometimes millions of simulations just to figure out which, which path is the good path for the rocket

and where can it go wrong, where can it fail? But when we do these, I'd say at this point millions of simulations of what can happen with the rocket, we ignore the ones that are where everything goes right because we just care about that, we have to address the situations where it goes wrong. So basically, And for AI simulations as well, like all these things, we keep the simulations going that are the most interesting to us.

So if simulation theory is accurate, if it is true, who knows, then the simulators will only continue to run the simulations that most interesting. Therefore, from a Darwinian perspective, the only survival. surviving simulations will be the most interesting ones. And in order to avoid getting turned off, the only rule is you must keep it interesting or you will, because the boring simulations will be terminated. Are you still completely convinced that this is a simulation? I didn't say I was completely convinced.

Well, you said it's like the odds of it not being or in the billions. Like I said, it's not completely, because you're saying there's a chance. what are the odds that we're in base reality um well given that given that that we're able to create increasingly sophisticated simulations so if you think you say video games and how video games have gone from very simple

video games like pong with you know two rectangles in a square to video games today being uh photorealistic uh with millions of people playing simultaneously and all of that has occurred now lifetime. So if that trend continues, video games will be indistinguishable from reality. The fidelity of the game will be such that you don't know if that what you're seeing is a real video or a fake video. And like AI generated videos at this point, you can sometimes tell it's an AI generated video, but often you cannot tell. And soon you will not really just

not be able to tell. So, if that's happening in our direct observation, then, and we'll create millions, if not billions, of photorealistic simulations of reality, then what are the odds that we're in base reality versus someone else's simulation? Well, isn't it just possible that the simulation is inevitable, but that we are in base reality building towards,

a simulation? We're making simulations. So, we're making simulations. You can just think of like photo realistic video games as being simulations. And especially as you apply

AI in these video games, the characters in the video games will be incredibly interesting to talk to. They won't just have a limited dialogue tree where if you go to like the cross merchant or like and you try to talk about any subject except buying a crossbow they just want to talk about selling you a crossbow but with with with AI based non-player characters you can you'll be able to have an elaborate conversation with no dialogue tree well that might be the solution for meaning for people just lock in and you could be a fucking vampire and whatever you live

in avatar land you could do it you could do whatever you want and you don't have to think about money or food ready player one yeah Literally, yeah. But with higher living standards. Yeah. You don't have to be a little trailer. I mean, I think people do want to have some amount of struggle or something they want to push against. But it could be, you know, playing a sports or playing a game or something like that.

It could be easily playing a game. Yeah, yeah. And especially playing a game where you're now no longer worried about, like, physical attributes, like athletics, like bad joints and hips and stuff like that. now it's completely digital but yet you do have meaning in pursuing this thing that you're doing all day whatever the fuck that means it's going to be weird it's going to be interesting it's going to be very interesting um the most interesting and uh and usually ironic outcome is the most likely that's a good predictor of the future thank you thanks for being here really I appreciate your time.

I know you're a busy man, so this means a lot. You come here to do this. Welcome. All right. Thank you. Bye, everybody.