The Joe Rogan Experience - #2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Derek is the fitness educator and entrepreneur behind the "More Plates, More Dates" YouTube channel, podcast, and companion website.www.moreplatesmoredates.com www.youtube.com/@MorePlatesMoreDates Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Buy 1 Get 1 Free Trucker Hat with code ROGAN at https://happydad.com This video is sponsored by BetterHelp. Visit https://BetterHelp.com/JRE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Oh, well, you can tell me about your new drink. Look at this here. Red gummy fish. I'm about to try it for the first time. And this is a new tropic?

Yeah, so it's, I think on the first episode maybe that I did with you. Robust, eh? That's good. Yeah. Oh, that's delicious. I mean robust You're saying it like potentially Oh both flavor and

I think it's great Oh right on Red gummy fish This is fucking delicious I drink the shit out of this Oh a lot of stuff in here What's in here? So I think it was the first time I was on

You asked me about Gorilla Mind and the new tropic formula That I used before podcasts Yeah To get cognitively dialed And at the time it was a capital based formula And it still is it still exists But taking what we could

To suspend in a liquid format and getting it into something that's more like publicly and widely accepted that they would want to drink on a regular basis and it's something you could use daily. It's kind of what we did in this. So we included essentially like a daily use version of the guerrilla mind formula, which includes the tyrosine precursor for dopamine as well as other neurotransmitters, catacolamines like adrenaline or adrenaline. Also, alpha-GPC, most bioavailable form of chlorine. and it crosses the blood-brain barrier and is pretty efficacious and also just a good chlorine source in general, which most people are deficient in as a nutrient, and I think completely unaware that it's actually important to be supplementing with potentially.

Pretty hard to get an adequate amount of chlorine, but... What does it come from in food? Liver is a good source, eggs, and in general, it's just like the highly nutrition-dense foods that you would get it from. A lot of people aren't focusing on specifically either because of caloric density or it's like an animal beast, like nose to tail thing or fill in the blank. It's not impossible to do it. A lot of people who focus on it could probably relatively easily,

but it's still one of the things you have to focus on actually kind of like maneuvering into your diet typically. So in general, most people are at least maybe like 50% of the way that are at best, and that's even among people who I would say are relatively balanced diet individuals. Interesting. So I'm sure you're familiar with colonergic. and their impact on, you know, cognition and whatnot. Caffeine, tried and true.

How much you got in here? 200 milligrams. Nice. Very difficult decision trying to come up with. What is the amount you're going to stick with in perpetuity in this thing? Everyone's addicted now. It's a real issue with caffeine. So it's like the fine line balance of not too much, something that is still, you know, tolerable,

sustainable, going to be widely accepted and widely impactful on a beneficial level but not overdoing it. And 200 is kind of what we landed on. And then uridine monophosphate, pretty unique ingredient. I haven't seen anybody ever included in a drink, let alone even in supplements typically. What is it? So it's also something that operates via the colonnergic system, but in a different way, mainly it's utility is kind of enhancing your sensitivity to stimulants. So somebody who is otherwise desensitized from like heightened exposure to things that either desensitize them to.

caffeine or nicotine or things of this nature, even some like the ADHD medications. This can actually, at least the literature, suggest strongly that it enhances dopamine neurotransmission potential. So like almost restoring function and damaged dopamine producing neurons in the brain. So you can kind of get a heightened impact out of the same level of stimulant. So a caffeine dose that might otherwise be you're used to it now. You start to feel it again more than you used to without having to increase your caffeine intake. Yeah. So it's a pretty cool ingredients. And it seems to have some neuroprotective properties potentially as well. And some interesting literature on like Alzheimer's and

whatnot, but it's more like fringe and to be determined how impactful it is. And then on top of that, we have elthenian. You're probably familiar with its effects stacked with caffeine, increases alpha waves, good for verbal fluency, as well as just general attention, concentration, but keeping you a little bit more balanced and mellow while you have the heightened, stimulatory activity from the caffeine and the other kind of like dopaminergic compounds. And then also saffron extract, which is a totally unique inclusion, in my opinion. Still don't really see it in Neutropic formulas, alone in drinks. And it's something that in literature is shown to be as efficacious as pharmaceutical SSRIs

without inducing the same erectile dysfunction inducing effects of it and without causing the same anhedonia inducing effects, which is kind of like the muting of. of pleasure in the brain. Saffron. Yeah, super interesting ingredients. It seems to be pretty impactful for depression, for anti-anxiety, and it also operates through a seemingly different mechanism, even though it's often stacked up against SSRIs for its comparisons

and outperforms them or matches it with a relative lack of side effects. It is something that operates through seemingly antioxidant activity, some dopaminergic, some serotonergic, and it's just a little bit more of a benign way to achieve what is a similar outcome, but with a seemingly lower, if not negligible to non-existent side effect profile. I'm not saying that's what our drink does. I'm just saying that's what the literature on saffron says. And anyone can go look that up and reference it.

And then who pairs the name? Probably the most impactful acetylcholinistrate inhibitor that you can include alongside like coline precursors. So it inhibits the breakdown of acetylcholine as opposed to being the fuel, like the precursor, Choline, Aceto, Alpha GPC, CDP Coalene, these are things that provide the substrate to actually produce the acetylch preventing the breakdown of it too. Could otherwise get like a one-two punch where you get the heightened fuel substrate, but then also an inhibition of its breakdown. So you have just like a heightened level of cognitive capacity through both like the one-two punch.

How did you determine these like doses and what you were going to include? non-include? So a lot of it derived from the original capsule-based formula. So back in, I don't know, 2021, I had already been using this thing for daily use, essentially. And it was something that was determined based upon years of experience, personal anecdotes, but digging through hordes of clinical literature, ultimately. There's a lot of these compounds that have clinical studies on them for different applications. You can kind of sift through what are the efficacious dosages.

where are they impactful, or is a sustainable level you could actually take this long term without it being negatively impactful on, because sometimes if you overdo it in one area over time, it might be problematic. So trying to find the fine balance of where is a dose that moves the needle, but isn't going to kind of like push you in too far of a negative direction that it's unsustainable. Because sometimes that this stuff, it's like a hammer solution. You might see an energy drink that's like 300, 350 caffeine, and it's like, okay, you know. you've essentially singled out a lot of the customers who might otherwise benefit from it. Even if there was other good stuff in the drink, it's like only stim junkies can use it now.

You know? So this is kind of like the fine balance of what I thought to be the most sustainable version of balancing, you know, dopamine input, serenergic activity, getting some of that, you know, anti-anxiety support, and also getting a reasonable hit of caffeine. And did you, so in pill form, so did you start out by using. each individual supplement and then trying to use them in combination to see if there's a synergistic effect. Like, how did you do it over time? I guess maybe that's a bit more interesting than digging through literature. But when I was a university student, just like being a nerd, mixing stuff in my kitchen, like a chemist essentially, and just measuring raw powders back, you know, in the day what we would do, or at least, you know, like biohackers and what have you,

So we'd buy just like off of different websites, raw, bulk ingredients, and then you'd measure out with little microspoons in these laboratory increments to try and get, okay, the microgram equivalent of this and you'd make some disgusting shake with a concoction of different unflavored powders and create what is your ultimate kind of combination through trial and error ultimately. And were you like doing a diary? Like today I feel great. Yeah, it's just keeping a log almost like, you know, working out like how did you respond

to fill in the blank? or take into account like sleep all these different factors diet training as many variables at the time obviously a bit more rudimentary and crude when you're like 21 years old and you're just trying to like get cognitively locked in to study for finals but back then it was just what is the most impactful things that I've heard work and then also digging further into literature looking on the limited forums that existed back then online because it's a lot more of like a niche community back then. It's not like this was widely discussed. Uh, 20, 2009, 2008. Oh. When you're flying Emirates business class, enjoying a good night's rest in your lie flat seat, you'll see that your vacation isn't really over until your flight is over. Fly Emirates.

Fly better. Early days. Yeah. That's when I first started fucking around with them. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I first found out about Nero 1. That was the first one I found out about.

Okay. Did you ever try that one? Neuro one. It's Bill Romanowski's company, the football player. So he developed it because he was having cognitive problems after years and years of playing football. And so he came up with this formulation. And I was doing this radio show, Allison No Name in San Francisco. And no name's a dude. I forget his name, unfortunately. Ironically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So long ago. But he was working out with Romanoowski. Romanowski was trying to get him in shape. And he gave him this stuff. And he said, hey, try it. And it was, you know, I'd do morning radio when you're promoting, like I was doing Cobbs Comedy Club.

When you were doing a comedy club, you'd show, this is back in the day when radio meant something, you'd show up in the morning and you'd do the morning drive. And they would go, oh, Joe Rogan's appearing at the comedy club this weekend, come see him, and you'd be funny on the radio and have a good time with the people. And he gave it to me, and I was like, hey man, this stuff feels like something's going on. Like, this is legit. And that's what really got me. That's how we developed Alpha Brain. We developed alpha brain after me trying out neuro one saying, is there, can we optimize this? There's another way to do this?

Is there, you know, other forms that we're missing? But your formulation seems like very comprehensive and also fucking delicious. Yeah, it's one of the difficult things, too, is making it taste good while still being able to suspend the active ingredients because they could just fall out of suspension or myriad of different issues, carbonation problems, even excessive. exploding cans in transit that you're not predicting or going to react a certain way. Even the black lids, dude, like it's stuff you don't even think of, but it's absorbing heat. It's like, oh, it's going to be more prone to blowing up now because of that. Oh, because of a black lid. Did you want a black lid just for aesthetics?

Yeah, at the time. This looks cool. Yeah, exactly. And so what are you sweetening this stuff with? Primarily sucralose, which obviously, you know, some people have their opinions on it, and that's totally fine and good. but in general, based on clinical literature, seems to be well tolerated. And what is the issue with it that people have? I think it depends on the person and like the kind of content they make typically.

And typically they have a bit of a bias. Yeah, but in general, it's, you know, going to irritate your gut or it could cause GI distress. And for some people with extremely sensitive gastrointestinal issues, it can for sure. But in general, a lot of the dosage is used and just having it even conservatively, which most people are going to be, it's like pretty benign, at least from the litter tribe scene. One of the things that we had noticed when we first came out with Alpha Brain was for some people, it's a small amount, but for some people, they would get headaches and they felt terrible after taking it. I don't know what their dose.

I don't know if they were taking the recommended dose or if they were saying, well, two's good, I'll take five. There's a lot of folks like that out there. But, yeah, some of these, if you're not careful, it could be, you know, pushing you into Like, we vetted this out beforehand, but one of the first formulations or prototypes of guerrilla mind in the capsule form, we had something called velvet bean extract, which standardizes to L. Dopa. So, like, Levo Dopa is used for, like, Parkinson's patients because it's a direct precursor to dopamine without a rate limiting step that kind of, like, in-hit regulates the conversion. So rather than using tyrosine, we were like, we thought, and we didn't end up releasing it because of this, We could just go, okay, let's get a straight precursor and see how impactful this thing is because they really wanted to hit. And, oh, my God, I had, like, dopamine overdose myself.

Had my girlfriend at the time also fuck herself up and my parents fucked themselves up. And somehow it didn't occur until, like, three incidents later, I'm like, okay, this thing is unsustainable. And I guess my business partners didn't really even think worth mentioning, which was kind of crazy at the time, because they just trusted me to do the formulations and whatnot. But they had the same experience that didn't bring it up. And I'm like, guys, like, we can't release this shit. It was just, like, way too intense. What did it do to you?

It just, like, makes you extremely nauseous. You feel like you have to keel over on a couch and just lie there until you feel like you can actually regain composure and start moving around again. Really? Yeah, dopamine. A lot of people think more is better. You're going to have more motivation, more drive, more, you know, the more, the more the better is what a lot of people think, but similar to probably even worse than stimulants

because at least stimulants, you have kind of like a direct biofeedback through your heart rate's going through the roof and you're getting the anxiety with dopamine if you overdo it with something that you can't like rate limit either, you just like get sick and you just end up having to lie down for hours. Interesting. One thing I like about a drink versus a pill form is that you can just take a little. Yeah, you can meter your dress. Yeah, because you take a pill, you're taking a Bill. That's it. You can't like, unless you don't have to cut pills in half or pour some of the capsule out. Yeah. No one's doing that. But this is nice because you could just kind of sip a little bit of it.

How many of these can you drink in a day? I could drink a lot, but personally, like, you don't even want to know, dude. How many do you drink a day? On a typical day, probably two to three, but I could. What's recommended? Oh. Check the warning label, bro. What does the warning label say, bro? It must say no more than two a day, but I would say,

on a podcast, not more than one is what I would recommend. Yeah. Yeah. Well, especially with all that caffeine as well. Yeah, you never know. In general, 400 milligrams is even like the FDA stated, you know, everyone's going to be okay, probably dose. But in reality, it's kind of crazy.

A lot of people don't realize the studies done for caffeine-induced performance enhancement are all looking at like three to six milligrams a kilogram, which is like, unless you're a tiny woman, 400, 500, 600 milligrams are the doses that actually really move the needle when it comes to acute performance enhancement. Chale Sondon used to take it in pill form. Yeah.

Because he was saying that there's a level where they'll test you, well, you'll pop where they'll say, okay, you're in a stimulant level. Like you took a stimulant before you fought. Yeah, they have a, they had threshold concentrations that they would deem inappropriately high,

perhaps for safety, perhaps, because I thought it was an unfair advantage. It kind of... I think that's what they were looking at it. It kind of depends, though, because I think it was removed, and I don't think that threshold exists anymore except in the NCAA. I'd have to revisit it, but I'm pretty sure caffeine is, like, essentially you could go full bore at this point. Interesting. So, five, six hundred milligrams was what the efficacious dose was?

So you can get performance enhancement as low as, I think, some people, was like a milligram per kilogram. It depends on the person and tolerance, of course, but in general, the most tried and true studies when it comes to repeatable high impact with a proportional relative lack of side effect, but not none, was like three to six milligrams a kilogram, and some of the studies go even higher than that. Interesting. And what are the benefits? Like, what did they get? Like acute strength enhancement, offsetting like any sleep-induced deprivation and performance

outcomes mentally you can pretty much offset like a shitty night of sleep and all the kind of detriments to your performance via a pretty solid dose of caffeine um yeah most of the stuff is kind of energy acutely offsetting performance decrement related but also in a context of strength um high intensity activity you can absolutely get a benefit from it and there's a reason why you know sprinters will take you know modafinal or high dose caffeine or power lift power lifters will take, you know, massive doses of, you know, pre-workup before a lift or whatnot. Like, it's all impactful for your psychological state to get really, like, locked in in a hypervigilant state to really max out on what you're trying to do, whatever it may be. This episode is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer.

A nice, cold, happy dad is low carbonation, gluten-free, and is easy to drink. No bloating, no nonsense. When you were watching a football game or you're golfing, watching a fight with your boys, or out of on the lake, these moments call for a cold Happy Dad. People are drinking all these shelters and skinny cans that are loaded with sugar, but Happy Dad only has one gram of sugar in a normal size can. You can buy Happy Dad on the GoPuff app and your local liquor and grocery store, including Walmart, Kroger, Total Wine, and Circle K. And you can't decide on a flavor, grab a variety pack, lemon, lime, watermelon, pineapple, and wild cherry. They also have a

grape flavor in collaboration with death row records and snoop dog. They have their new lemonade coming out as well. Visit happydad.com for a limited time offer and use code Rogan to buy one happy dad trucker hat and get one free. Enjoy a cold happy dad must be of legal drinking age. Please drink responsibly. Happy dad, hard seltzer, tea and lemonade is a malt alcohol located in Orange County, California. Yeah. I had a podcast the other day with Chris Master John. Do you know who is?

Yeah, he's great. Great. And we were talking about the impact of creatine. And they're trying to figure out, like, what is the correct dose? And a lot of people are going 20, 30. They're getting pretty high, you know, because recommended was like 5 milligrams, I think. Yeah. And now everyone's saying, actually, the real benefits are at 20 and, you know, at least 10. but you're getting a lot of what happens when people have sleep deprivation. And I'll butcher the science, so I won't try to repeat it,

and I recommend anybody listen to the episode. But what he was essentially saying was it bypasses all the problems that occur, and you could at least have a bridge to your performance would not be impeded by a lack of sleep, at least for a temporary, for a day or whatever. Yeah, definitely want to touch on that. But one thing to mention on the caffeine, too, is I think a lot of people when they hear the stuff like, you know, I heard you can go up to 20 grams of creatine or, you know, the highest impact dose in caffeine literature is, you know, three to six milligrams a kilogram. It's not like I or I imagine Chris is like blindly recommending anybody start there. Exactly.

And it could easily get misconstrued that way in like a clippable format. If people will just like hear the headline and then run with it, like you should start as low as you can. can with caffeine, and you could get a ergogenic effect as low as, I think the lowest dose was like 50 to 100 milligrams probably if you equated to body weight, but it's all like tolerance dependent. It's just when you look at the studies, like these are the repeatable high impact outcomes are typically in, and especially in like trained athletes or you're trying to see how hard you can push them.

It's kind of like, you know, for max stress resilience, max, you know, acute force production, these are the kind of dosages that are just used in the studies. So anyway, with that caveat, and same with the creatine, you know, you might shit yourself if you go to 20 right away. Right. You don't want to start there. A lot of people do, apparently. Yeah, and I mean like, like Rhonda Patrick's amazing content, and she tolerates 20 grams well, which is kind of like surprising because I know a lot of women who don't. I think she does it probably micro doses it throughout the day and is really regimented about making sure she's diligently spreading it out. But some people who they bomb 20 at a time, even guys who think they have ironies. in stomachs.

Just shit a little. It's so much powder, too. Just the fact that you're consuming all this powder. Yeah. Oh yeah. Speaking of which, are you still doing the like million gummies a day? Of what? Of creatine.

No. You said you were going to crank that shit up to get to 20 grams. I stopped with the gummies and I went to powdered form. Oh, okay. Because I felt like I'm tired of eating these fucking things. You got up to like, what, like 10 plus a day? Oh, more. I was eating like 15 a day.

Oh, shit, dude. 15 gummies a day. But the issue is, like, what else is in the gummies? You know, what are the other things? Yeah, they're not free of calories either. It's kind of just like, if I'm going to eat candy, you know, kind of want it to be, like, good candy. Yeah, I don't even know what it's sweetened with.

They taste good. But the point was, it's like, I didn't like eating them. I was eating too. I was, like, forcing myself to chew these things down. I'm like, what am I doing? I can just mix creatine and a glass of water, stir it up real quick and just chug it in five seconds and we're done. I don't have to chew and swallow.

all these stupid fucking gummies. I know. But I do keep them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I keep them around because I think it's a great thing. Like, if I hadn't had enough lately, I'll just pop a few. It's like the best gateway drug, if you can even call it. It's not like a drug, but to get people who otherwise would never try it to actually

see the benefits of it. Right. So, like, I know so many women who literally refuse to take the powder. Right. Even though it's kind of a tasteless, it's still a nuisance. Can be a little bit messy depending on the scupor or shape of it and everything and how you're gonna try to convince a chick like it trust me it's really good for your health if you like you know fucking swig this thing dry and then chase it with water every day it's not it's not the

easiest sell every time they're like fuck you i don't care so the gummies are good for that in my opinion and um yeah i mean we're going back to the 20 grams and the offsetting of you know performance deteriorations i do think it's uh basically offsetting kind of the deficiencies in like ATP production, especially locally in the brain, and also kind of offsetting the pulling of resources away from like methylation support and whatnot in order to produce the endogenous creatine as well. These things can all be impactful to kind of like get you back to almost baseline. So if you're in a deteriorated state, being able to offset the performance decrements from

an otherwise, you know, sleep deprived state or, you know, you're traveling or what have you. Like, it can absolutely be super impactful, and the literature has shown that time and time again. What's interesting is that creatine in the 1990s was thought of, like, steroids. Yeah. I mean, it was really, like, frowned upon, like, oh, my God, someone's taking creatine. They're cheating. Yeah. It was really, that's like how it was first introduced to the market.

You'd have to hide it from your parents when you're a teenager. Really? Yeah. Well, at least when I was a teenager, it was kind of like, it had a taboo still. It was like, you know, kind of like steroid light version. Well, it's because it works. Yeah, and parents. But they hear the stigma and the taboo associated.

Like, I heard creatine. They're selling it at the GNCs. Yeah. You know? Better watch out for that one. Meanwhile, they had real steroids at GNC. Oh, yeah, the irony, too. Yeah.

I mean, they're like fucking M1Ts over the counter from, you know, like some 19-year-old kid who's just, like, manning the counter and doesn't care and will, like, fuck your endocrine system up to sell it to you? 100%. I took some stuff called Mag 10. Do you remember that? If I saw the ingredient deck, I'm sure it's just like some fucking run in the middle. and one T product or something. Gained like 10 solid pounds of muscle in a month. And I bet your liver markers, not that you did blood work back then.

Were destroyed. Yeah, like worse than if you took like injectable trend even. Right, right. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, well, 100% it killed my dick afterwards too. When I got off of it, I was like, what's going on? And I was like, oh, this is a real steroid. Yeah, and it's like you're not giving the PCT from the guy at the counter.

I felt like a fucking gorilla when I was taking it. I felt so strong when I was taking it. I literally gained, I think it was like I was on. for five or six weeks and I gained 10 solid pounds of muscle. The amount of people that have inadvertently gotten gynecumastia from those days

when they were sold some irresponsible prohormone over the counter without like any knowledge of what they were taking and then had to just recover naturally with no support, it's a shame. Yeah, well there was so much of that stuff like, werewolf blast. There was like dragons dick.

You could buy them and they were just pills. They were just regular pills. The stimulants are crazy, too. Like, Ephedrin was over the counter. Oh, yeah. And, like, so weird. But in Canada, for relatively recently, even, it was still available over the counter,

even though Canada is, like, super tight on regulation when it comes to the most weird stuff. Like, when it comes to caffeine, you can't even have a can with 200 milligrams. It has to be, like, 180 or lower. Why exactly? I don't know. But that is a thing as well as limitations on basic amino acids. It's like tyrosine if it's more than like 10 milligrams or something. Amino acids.

Yeah. That's hilarious. Yeah, it's crazy. Like based on what? Nonsense. Oh, God. Fucking nanny state. But anyway, so a fetterin, for whatever reason, was still over the counter available in GNCs up until like a handful of years ago.

And it was, you know, the best seller in G&Cs and a lot of supplement stores, not just because it worked as, you know, like a bronco dilator, but also because people were buying it in bulk to make me. math. I believe it. I took rip fuel once for Jiu-Jitsu, right before Jiu-Jitsu, and I had a stop in the middle of class. I was like, I got to sit down. I pulled over to the side of my guys, my fucking heart is beating him in my chest. And I was explaining, I don't remember how many I took, but I took some rip fuel. I was like, well, it's good to lift with. I'll try it for Jiu-Jitsu. It's fucking... For something that, like, really taxes your cardiovascular system, it was horrendous. Resting horrid, like, 120. Right away. I was tired. Like, right away. Like right away, like we start rolling.

I was like, God, I'm fucking exhausted. My heart's beating out of my chest. But in your brain, you're like, feels good after the first one. I knew I fucked up. I knew I did it once and I never did it again. If you're doing that sport, but for a guy who's going to the gym and is told, like, this is the shit, bro. If you're just lifting.

Yeah. If you're just going for like Max Bench, that kind of shit. Anybody watching will know, you know, the original, have you heard of Jack 3D? Yeah, I took that too. Yeah, it was nuts. And what's crazy, too, is back. Back then, it was proprietary blends on a lot of the products, and it was still the norm with no education available, no YouTube to really tell you what to look for.

Also, no oversight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So these companies would basically sell you for, you know, 50 bucks, a tub of, like, a powder flavored tub of just, like, the stimulant. And then it was like, like, all the other ingredients for vasodilation, they're like, fuck you, you're just getting DMA, bro. Yeah, you were just getting like straight meth. Yeah, yeah.

It was crazy. There was so, those were the Wild West days of, like, GNCs and, like, local vitamin shops. Yeah. Because you could get stuff that really worked, like, worked like something that's highly illegal. Yeah. And you could buy it with a credit card.

And the sales tactics were just, like, so ruthless, but you couldn't really prove them otherwise. Right. It was always, like, a pit bull with, like, giant muscles on the cover of it with, like, lightning bolts. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, too, because some of these companies, it's like, now we're in the mix competing with them on shelves or whatever, but I remember being, like, convinced back when I was a teenager

by them, oh, you need, you know, gag kick, lukech, and creakic, and this combo that cost $250 bucks. Yeah. And it's like, you know, literally press tablets of like glutamine or something at a dose that doesn't even help. And they're telling me, like, this is what Jay Cullery used to fucking preferably Olympia. Sure.

He's like, look at the before and after of Lee Priest. He lost, like, 50 pounds of pure fat and kept all his muscle from. cell tech. Oh, that's the dirty thing about those bodybuilders back in the days. They couldn't admit that they were on gear. So they were all just telling you they were taking this stuff and then they would be spokespeople for it and it's like, God, it was so deceptive. It was so creepy. And you would have to know someone at the gym who would, you know, oh, I want to be like me Haney. Like, no, that's not how he got that way. You got to take the real stuff. This is what he's actually taking. So many people didn't think that those bodybuilders were on like

hardcore steroids. Yeah, a lot of, yeah, it's a deception at a mass scale for sure. The whole sport. Yeah. The whole sport was just a complete, like, three-card Monty game. Yeah. It's crazy because now it's almost full circle because, you know, I was back then, you know, at least at the time when I didn't know any better, oh, you know, I guess this guy must

be natural because he told me so or whatever. And it's like, I'm skeptical, but like, and, you know, in hindsight, it's absolutely. ridiculous, but now a lot of bodybuilders are pretty forthcoming because it's more normal to be transparent and also not mislead people and, you know, unethically sell things and just reality check people on the, what it's going to take to be at that level. And is it the risk you want to, you know, subject yourself to? Because back in the day, too, it was like you didn't know if you had good genetics or not when it came to certain dosage responses. So you would like always think the next guy is just taking more than you. It would result in guys.

unspokenly thinking this guy must just be taking 5x the amount of shit I'm on so I need to go to like 5 to 10 grams of total gear per week now and you would just like that's what led to so many early deaths in bodybuilding too so I think there's another thing another factor is that the consequences of lying and getting caught now are huge because if you lose all credibility and people know that you're just a bullshit artist yeah that too and then they'll never trust you again Like, you have one chance to tell the truth forever. Yeah. And the moment you violate that, you're always a liar.

Yeah. And that's a giant fucking issue with whether it's actors or anybody. Yeah. You know, like, all these guys who prep for roles and they're talking about it now. Like, oh, I took Anavar, I took this. Like Mickey Rourke did when he was talking about that movie The Wrestler. You know, I remember they were asking him on whatever talk show he was on. He was like, oh, I fucking took everything.

What are you talking about? That guy was a pioneer of interviews for that kind of stuff. Well, he's a wild dude. He'll tell the truth. Yeah, but you have one chance to tell the truth forever. Yeah. You violate that, and you're always going to be a bullshit artist. Yeah, a guy who's pretty good about that now is Frank Gorillo.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was doing some, like, men's health thing. And I have never seen men's health talk about steroids forthcomingly. Interesting. Yeah, so they had him on a sit-down interview. And they were like, so, you know, what's the take to be? Is this recent?

Yeah. say last year, within the last year. Right. If not months ago. Is this when he was talking about Anavar? Yeah, and he talked about his TRT protocol and kind of like the realities of how impactful it actually is and improving his performance and how it makes him feel. And he was just like pretty non-trigger-coded about it.

Well, he's a good example because he was clean for a long time. Yeah. Like he had like very low testosterone because he was just going on willpower. He was really just working out on willpower. Action Star lifts the lid on fitness recovery and the reality behind the scenes physiques Frank Gill O'S60

gets real about Hollywood steroid use they all do it Well that is a fact But he was not on anything For a long time Like deep into his 50s And he got his testosterone He's good friends of Brian Callan

And you know He got his testosterone taking It was fucking nothing He had like zero But he was just very disciplined And working out hard But he didn't look like he was on gear He just looked like he was ripped

It was like shredded. He was like in really good shape because he trained every fucking day and he was doing a lot of boxing. So a lot of like heavy caloric expenditure, a lot of like long rounds, hitting the bag, hitting mitts, doing sparring. You know, you're going to burn off so much calories. And also you're going to like your metabolism is going to be like completely jacked. So then for him to talk about, okay, now I got on this and then I got on that. And this was the improvements of my sleep, my mood, everything got better. Because, you know, he's talked about it.

It was, like, his testosterone, when he got to test, it was super low. Yeah. Yeah, it's probably one of the few examples, actually, still to this day, though, of somebody being, like, really transparent. I actually saw The Rock talking about peptide use recently, which was kind of like a... Interesting. Dipping his toes in the water. Yeah, exactly.

Well, he's lost a ton of weight, man. Oh, dude, yeah. It's kind of crazy. Yeah, and there's a lot of speculation about if it's, like, a health thing or what? But that's tough to know because he just had the role where he gained the most size he ever has, too. Right, right. But that had to be terrible for him. Oh, for sure.

But it's like, would you have subjected yourself to that if you knew, I don't know if he would have known, but you would have think proactively he would know how close he is to kind of like an issue being. Probably pretty close, 50 years old and getting up to 300 pounds. Yeah, I just mean, I think he probably had more preventative screening. before that role to know he could even subject himself to it without dying because it's like a pretty risky endeavor to go become the biggest you've ever been at that age. So to then downsize after, the theory is that he was literally about to die essentially. So that's why he lost so much weight now. And I'm thinking, I think maybe he's just like trying to take like a health phase and kind of like

come down and wait for a bit and he'll probably like crank it back up. Honestly, I think just this is pure speculation. I haven't talked to him about this. I think based on what he tried to do with the smashing machine, I think he's trying to win an Oscar. He was trying to be a real actor because he was really good in that movie. Did you see it? Not yet. I'm planning on it, though.

It's the best mixed martial arts movie ever. That's not saying a lot because they all suck. But it is the, it's the most accurate in terms of historical matches. Like, they had all the matches like, with you. Igor Vov-Centchen, all these different people that he fought, that Mark Kerr actually fought. And it's just a good movie. It's a really good movie. Like Emily Blunt plays his crazy girlfriend, and she's out of her fucking mind.

And to the point where, like, they're arguing right before he fights and you're getting anxiety watching. Like, oh, Jesus, fucking Christ. It's just such a crazy, toxic relationship. It is Emily Blunt, right? I didn't fuck that up, did I? There is. She's fucking great in it, too. It's just a really good movie that I think would have gotten a lot more credit if it wasn't a mixed martial arts movie.

Because I think, you know, mixed martial arts movie is like, oh, it's some fucking meathead, like rah, rah, rah, you know, bullshit movie. But it's a very good movie. And he is Mark Kerr. Oh, he was so accurate. So good. Yeah. He just, and not just the fighting stuff, man. The fighting stuff was great, but the acting stuff.

Like he played that guy and I know Mark I was like fuck that's Mark That's nuts It was so good It was a really good movie So what I think he's doing Is the same thing Batista's doing Dave Batista

But inverse Well Dave Batita lost a lot of weight too Yeah but I guess I mean like Typically when actors are trying to get taken more seriously For more impactful like artistic creative roles It's almost like The Jack Meathead guy downsizes To do something more

You know like I don't know artsy? Yeah. But like this is getting as yoked as possible in order to be the arts. Right, right, right, right. Whereas Batista is like fully downsides, I think now. Yeah, but what I'm saying is now, what he's doing now.

I think he's probably trying to get different kinds of roles. Roles where like, I mean, have you ever met him? No. It was like a superhero. He looks like a superhero. Like we worked out together. He came to the gym and I brought a bunch of comedians and worked out and hung out. Like Tony Kinchcliff was in his glory because, you know, he loves pro wrestling.

We're all in the sauna together. hanging out with the rock? It was the first time he probably still doesn't know that he uses gear. What's that? He probably still doesn't know that he uses gear. What do you mean? Hinchcliff is just like. Oh, Hitchcliff doesn't know that he knows he uses gear?

I still remember the episode where he was dumbfounded that you and Chubb thought that he was doing anything. Tell me Hitch. He is locked into being a 12-year-old pro wrestling fan for the rest of his life. It's like a religious thing for him. It's like, you know, Mary was a virgin. You know, she gave birth to Jesus. Like, I'm not kidding. Like, he fucking loves pro wrestling so much that he's completely locked in.

He's a good example, though, of, like, a reasonably in the know guy who has friends in the space, too. Like, you and, you know, Shob know about this stuff. And even he was, like, surprised that you guys thought that at the time. It's funny. It is funny when you think about it. So imagine just the average person. They probably, you know. Right.

And also he's, you know, been very coy about it and saying actually not really coy, probably deceptive, right? Just like strategically perfect in his tax when it comes to avoiding it. Yes, that's the best way to describe it. Instead of saying, I've never taken air steroids, he's kind of like, look over there. Yeah, exactly. But everybody who knows knows, you know, it's one of those things. It's like you look at them, you're like, there's no way. There's no way.

There's just no way. I think I can't imagine talking about peptides and putting the feelers out there would not eventually transition to like, you know, it was recommended to me by my doctor to be on, you know, hormone support or whatever. 100%. Yeah, like, I mean, you're kind of in that realm talking about it at this point, you know. Just come out and say it. I've always just come out and said it. I don't see any problem with it. But I don't have that kind of a reputation.

Like the problem with like being the pro wrestling thing is like your role model. for the youth and you know you have to especially a guy like that he's a giant movie star you don't want to be telling everybody you're on gear he probably wasn't for like a big chunk of his early career his early career right yeah his early career i don't think he was i guess the problem is when you're like when i really became successful is when i just sauce my face off yeah that's the thing when he became a superhero i mean the first time i met him he had cowboy boots on so he's even taller and he just looked like a fucking brick shit house i'm like they're not even a real person this isn't a real person this is a superhero yeah

Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, it's crazy, dude. But I think he's still jacked. It's just proportionally to relative to what he was. You know, it's kind of like anybody he used to be a bodybuilder or had significant amounts of sight, even me, like people in my videos are like, where you're, you know, you've lost everything. And it's like, okay, I'm not like non-existent anymore.

I'm just like not a bodybuilder anymore. You know what I mean? Yeah. So with him, it's like, he's still yokes. He's like $2.30, 240 or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, the thing is, like, super gearheads will always criticize. Oh, you look like a fucking chick now.

They get crazy. They said that about Bautista, too, but he's like 240. I think he's just going to stop wearing, like, the weird, tapered Gucci suits just makes him look a little bit more slender than it is not complimentary to his physique. He's still Jack, too. Yeah, but it does. It is complimentary if you didn't know what he used to look like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what's crazy. Like, you look at him. The guy looks fucking great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, objectively, if you just look at it with no baseline. Like, pull up a photo of Dave Batista now. And he's also just getting older. Like, there's got to be some level where you get acceptance of like, okay, you're allowed to downsize so you don't die.

Yeah, you could die. That's the thing. If you're pushing gear at that age, so there's, yeah, like, look at Batista on the right. You wouldn't say that's a small guy, you know? That's not a small guy. He's a big fucking dude, but he's just slimmer now. He looks like, like, if you saw an Emmett, like Alex Pereira, you don't think Alex Pereira is small. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, you know, he's 200 and fucking 40 pounds. Yeah, if he was bodybuilding for a while and then decided to convert to, you know, MMA. That's the thing. But he also got, like, that's what he looks like now. Like, that's not a small guy. Yeah, and he's like, I don't know how old, but I mean. That's 20, 25. He's got to be 50, 56, 56.

So that's, he's fucking shredded. He looks fucking gigantic. Yeah. Yeah, I think he actually did. a role recently where he bulked up what I think about it and he went to like it was like fat weight too which is crazy yeah that was that

uh glass onion was that what it was called there was some some movie that he did it was a really good movie it was a movie where like some billionaire had everybody come to his island for some crazy party and there was a murder

what was that called that was glass onion that was glass onion right he was huge for glass onion. He got gigantic. He got big for something else, too. But I think he was like playing, I don't remember what his role was, but playing some former athlete or something along those lines. Yeah, he was housey, dude. It's weird when you get really big for a movie that sucks. You know what I mean? Or kill yourself for a movie that sucks. Yeah, I hope it did well. Oh, Jesus. Christian Bale did that for the machinist. He almost died.

75 pounds he gained for knock at the cabin. Oh, that's what it is. Not. What was that movie? Show me what that looked like. Oh, yeah. Knock at the cabin. What was that movie? A horror movie on... I did not watch it.

Wow. A horror movie, huh. Do you watch horror movies? Oh, yeah, I love a good horror movie. He was 315? Yeah. Jesus. So now he's 240.

Yeah, it's much more sustainable. Yeah, but that's like a weird weight. That's like, what the fuck did he eat to get that big? And again, he probably did that at like 52, which is fucking dangerous. Yeah. You probably got sleep apnea. You're all fucked up.

Yeah. Shirley's Theron did that too recently. She did it for Monster. I know, no, again. She did it again? Don't do that. Oh, God. That's real?

Yeah. What is it for? I forget the movie. I just saw this photo the other day. I think some women, they're probably like a lady like her. Tully? I don't know what that is. Might not even be new.

I just saw it. It's such a flex. When you're a hot lady, to get fat and gross and like when she did Monster she shaved her eyebrows off Did you see the Sydney Sweeney like boxing?

I didn't see that Not that she got fat and gross but like she gained some weight Did she? Yeah that movie got zero attention The Christy Martin movie Oh yeah

Because it was like three decades Past when anybody gave a shit You know what I mean I at least got the impression I haven't watched it So I could be way off base That it was kind of like One of those artistic

Kind of like Probably look at my versatility volatility in roles kind of thing. Yeah. What did Siddy Sweeney looked like in that movie? Did she gain weight? They might have put her in her. Well, they said she gained like 30 pounds of muscle or something, which is like the typical

headline nonsense. Yeah. Horshit. Yeah. But she definitely like, you know, took it seriously and gained the weight that she needed to to look whatever the role was, for sure. Yeah, that's such a weird thing. The acting world.

You have to change your, like, like, Robert Janira was the first guy to do it for Raging Bull. You remember Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder? Yeah, but that was a fat suit Oh yeah, yeah Yeah, I mean, because they made his forearms fat He shaved his head

He was fucking great in that movie Oh fuck, what a movie That was the last bang before Woke That was the last movie that you could ever do like that Before Woke kicked in And essentially ruined great comedies Because you couldn't go too far You can't do that anymore

You just get in trouble Yeah, it's like back then if you were to ask okay you know have a hit list of just like ready to laugh your ass off movies that are just like low effort you don't have to think too much you can just sit down and enjoy there's a bunch of bangers

from back then but it's like nowadays I don't know what to go to you they don't happen anymore like the Fairley Brothers movies like Kingpin fucking great movie you know there's so something about Mary there's so many of those like outrageous hysterical movies that

it was funny I asked Robert Downey Jr. I was like, I go, you couldn't do blackface in a movie today. He goes, oh, you could do it. But what would happen afterwards is the big deal. He got it in like, it's like the scene in a movie where the elevator door closes right before the monster gets to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He got there just in time. And like, it was perfect timing where he didn't suffer from it. No, yeah, it's crazy to see the Delta and just like, I don't even know what to watch

when I go on Netflix now. Well, with comedies, it's really fucking hard. It's really hard. The only thing that's really wild and free is stand-up comedy. Like, to do a comedy movie and just go full tropic thunder is almost impossible today. But if somebody did it, if somebody just self-financed it, oh, my God, it would fucking kill. It would make so much money, and then we'd open up the floodgates. Because people still want that, you know, they still love, like, it's not.

Not that you agree with everything these people are saying and doing. It's comedy. Like, I don't agree with John Wick killing everybody. You know what I mean? Like, but he's not really killing everybody. Like, it's a fucking movie. And it used to be that you knew that when you went into these movies before everybody was, like, looking for everything to potentially be offended by. Yeah.

It's just, like, ruined everything. What do you watch now? I don't watch comedies anymore. But, like, just in general, do you have any, like, kind of just, like, low barrier? just I sit down and turn my brain off. Oh, there's a lot of great stuff. You know what I watched last night, Jamie? You recommended pluribus?

Is that what it's called? I'll only watch the first episode. Holy shit. Holy shit is it good. Holy shit is it good. It's a new Apple show. And I don't want to give away too much, but it has something to do with aliens. And aliens send a transmission to Earth, and there's this insane impact on society.

but it's like fucking total left field movie you don't see it coming it's crazy or not movies television show and again I like Jamie I've only seen the first episode but it's great it's like holy shit he's giving you anxiety it's so good did you guys watch what was that other Apple show that was really good

who was like in an office setting I can't believe I'm forgetting severance yeah yeah yeah sevens is great especially the first episode or the first season The first season was great. After a while, they get a little weird. Because you're running this very strange game that you're doing. These people remember and don't remember.

And then you fuck him with the guy's head so he can remember. Yeah. What about Stranger Things and It? Those are two that my girlfriend has me watching right now. I watched the first episode of Stranger Things last night as well. Or yesterday as well. That was great. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that's, dude, it's kind of crazy how much time is between. these seasons now. It's like you finish. I almost like can't, oh, don't want to commit to something because it's like, well, if I like it, yeah, fuck you to me, you know? Two years from now. For the next three years for the next season. Game of Thrones. It's a great example of that. Oh, dude, House of Dragon. Like, good luck seeing the next season, bro. Well, not only that. Like, unfortunately, with House of Dragons, it's got to follow Game of

Thrones, which is, like, one of the best series of all time. And the characters just aren't as compelling for whatever reason. And so I don't know who the fuck anybody is. So the new season starts, I'm like, who's that? Yeah, and maybe I just have a monkey brain, but I'm watching, I'm like, I didn't see a dragon the whole fucking episode. I need a dragon. I feel ripped off. Yeah, I need a dragon, and I need that dragon to fucking kill somebody. Yeah, it's, uh, there's a lot of great shows now, but, but again, it, you can don't, it's very hard to make a great comedy.

You can make a great, like, mindless entertainment, like, fun show. Slow horses. That's a great show. It's a, is that an Apple show? I believe it is, yeah. That's another Apple show. With Gary Oldman, it's a spy, um, M5 or M5 or M5, what is it, MI5, what do they call themselves?

Yeah, MI5. The numbers of the person, I think it's, uh, whatever, I don't know. Whatever it is. It's a spy show. British spy show. That's a really good show, too. Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot of great shows to watch. Like there's, I think it's probably the best time ever for content.

If you just want to sit and be entertainment. It's probably the best time ever because of streaming because streaming instead of, you know, one episode, you're watching a show and it takes place over an hour and then the next episode is totally different, a totally different subject line, different story. No, it's like the thing you get you get locked into these characters, like Sopranos, I think was like the first one to really do that excellently and drag it out over, you know, many, many seasons. where you have this, like, running storyline. Yeah, yeah, it's, uh, I'm kind of just, like, tuned out of TV at this point. Just watch what my girlfriend wants to watch and Stranger Things and It is the thing right now. Yeah, I watch the new It show. Yeah, I watched the first episode of that too.

That looks great. It's, like, oddly overlapping with the stranger things. I feel like I'm kind of watching the same show almost. Kind of. Like, obviously totally different overall stories, but, like, you know, you have kids in these kind of like. And evil things. And I don't want to, like, wreck an episode, but they mention it, not specifically it, but a story about like an extraterrestrial evil being called it in a Stranger Things episode. I'm like, this is a weird fucking reference for these being at the same time right now.

Yeah. Well, they probably didn't plan that out, right? Yeah, I don't know, man. What is it called? Welcome to Derry. Is that what it's called? Yeah. The new one.

But it's good. That's good, too. The release date scheduling makes absolutely no sense for Stranger Things, too. It's like in batches and the next batch is coming out on Christmas. And then the final one is New Year's. It's like the exact times you like probably can't bang out all the episodes or like you're going to have to force your family to sit there with you. What's that? That's high school kids can.

Yeah, high school kids can. Well, I think Stranger Things is so big. They could fucking make it so you can only watch it at 3 o'clock in the morning and it would still get 30 million views. But like just such a weird choice. I don't know. Well, it's just weird that it takes. So it takes so long to make one of those damn things that you have to wait three years in between seasons. And then you have these kids that are playing 15-year-olds.

Now they're fucking 30. Yeah. It's kind of weird. You can tell some of them it's like, how do we make you look as young as possible? Yeah. You give them goofy haircuts. And then there's also like, spoiler alert, there's some computer-generated imaging. So they're using some sort of an AI program to make scenes with the kids when they were young.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you kind of can tell, but you kind of can't tell. It's, like, really good. Yeah. Yeah, nowadays, it's like you feel like you could just AI generate the whole thing, but... Yeah. Well, it's getting close, you know. It's getting to the point where, you know, there's no excuse for waiting three years

because you could have AI generate scripts and do it in an hour. What about F1? Are you guys following it all right now? The show or the actual racing? No, just the actual racing. I went to the F1 that was in Austin. It was amazing. This year?

Yeah. Okay. It's awesome. For, I think right now, it's the first time in the last 15 years, they've had three drivers coming down to the final race to win the championship between them, and the final race is this weekend. Oh, really? Yeah, it's like, where is it? I think it's in Abu Dhabi. I don't know.

That might have been the race that just happened, but it was nuts, dude. It's because right now you had McLaren who was like a shoe-in to have their main drive. driver, or at least the guy who is in the lead, take it. But they're refusing to favor one over the other, which is a typical strategy for whoever's in the lead. You'll have the other one kind of like block people for them to make sure they win the driver's championship. They're refusing to do that? Yeah, they're like making sure they can have equal opportunities to win, but the net result might now be none of them win and a guy from Red Bull takes the thing. Oh, that's crazy. Is it because the drivers aren't willing to do that?

I guess, but also just lack of enforcement from the pit boss, like, team guy, who's, like, supposed to be enforcing team principles and whatnot. It is kind of funky that that's how you win. You have someone, it's a team game? I mean, like, there's a team generated points between the two drivers, which can result in the, like, team championship. Right. But the thing that most people actually care about is who's the best driver in the world. Right. And that will be coming down to one person, even if it's a guy from a team that won the thing.

They're still competing against each other. And sometimes they can get pretty reckless where they're, you know, one is not willing to compromise. And he'll, like, blow the whole thing up to make sure that he has the best opportunity, understandably. But it's also like you guys are getting paid tens of millions of dollars. Maybe you should listen to your fucking guy who's telling you what to do. This is an ad for better help. The holidays come with a lot of traditions, gathering with family, cooking those once a year. recipes and leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together. That's something I always

look forward to. But there's another tradition I think we should all start doing during the holidays, and that's taking some time for ourselves. This season, you do so many things for the other people in your life. You plan get-togethers around everyone's schedule. You spend hours picking out the right gifts and cooking the right food, but you also deserve just as much attention. Otherwise, you'll burn yourself out. So do yourself a favor. and take some me time, go on a hunting trip, have a quiet night with a book, maybe even schedule a session with a therapist.

Therapy is an extremely effective way to make sure you're focusing on what you need. And BetterHelp can easily set you up. They have access to a wide network of fully qualified therapists, and they do a lot of the work for you. Even if that first match isn't a good fit, you can easily switch to another therapist.

This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash J-R-E. That's BetterH-E-L-P dot com slash J-R-E. Yeah, I get it. But then, again, if you're on another team, you're like, well, this is kind of bullshit because this guy didn't really win the race.

He won the race because his friends blocked everybody. Yeah, fair enough. But I mean, like, part of it is kind of like that. That's like part of the strategy. Oh, I get it. I get it, but maybe we should abandon that strategy because if it is a race. Yeah. I guess it's just problematic because it's so bandwidth intensive too to manage the two drivers

that if they're equally trying to win and only one is more likely to, what may very well happen on this weekend is they both don't win. Interesting. Yeah. So I got a tour of the McLaren pit last year and they showed me like all the different technology that's involved and they gave me a like a rundown of how much engineering is involved in these things and explained everything. It's crazy. They're all just trying to shave tens of seconds out of turns and then it all accumulates over the course of the race. Yeah, it's like

pretty psychotic when you look at what the differential is and kind of like what really separates these guys, it's often just like minuscule amounts and just like the littlest mistake. What are those guys on? That's what I want to know. Do they test them? They are tested, but not to the rigor of like an Olympic. Do they test them for a guerrilla mine? I'm sure they're probably using it.

This is probably a good thing for them to take. Probably for something that's not banned, yeah. Is any of this stuff banned, do you think, in Formula One? None of it. This is all like very straight-edge, like really tried and true neuterropics that work through kind of like endogenous pathways or things otherwise backfill neurotransmitters, similar to like the creatine deficiency that we talked about. If you backfill it and you can otherwise, you know, have a readily available source of phospho-cretein to offset ATP deficits, L-tyrosine, stuff like that, similar just in regards to dopamine, for example.

I'm an hour in, and I feel it. It's legit. Yeah, it's very litigant. And again, it's very delicious. So congratulations on that. Oh, thank you. Those guys lose a ton of weight, too, during those races. Oh, dude.

So much waterless. Yeah, because you're fucking hot as shit in those suits so you don't burn alive if you crash. Yeah, so new different strategies like hyperhydration, using things like liquid glycerol could be impactful to retain more water. Do they wear a diaper? I don't know, but how long is the race? It could be, it kind of, I think it depends, but it's like upwards of an hour and hour and a half, so. Yeah, just piss yourself. Yeah, just sit in your own pee for an hour and a half.

Yeah, you would have to. I would imagine with that kind of money on the line Just fucking let it go, baby Yeah, I don't even know if you'd have to though If you're just like perspiring like a motherfucker You might come out drenched Right Yeah and they've lost like tons of weight

But sometimes in the sauna I have to pee Oh yeah Yeah sometimes I'm like 15 minutes into a sauna session I'm like god damn and I can't hold it So I gotta open the door and go out And piss outside and then climb back in again Have you ever tried glycerol for hyperhydration? No, what is that?

It's just like straight up glycerol, it's like a sugar, but it also has a hyperhydrating effect that you can hold upwards of an extra pound of body water if you have it as a supplement. So some endurance athletes will use it before events in order to retain more water in a way that is not, it enhances like thermal regulation and your ability to tolerate stress. You don't lose as much, you don't dehydrate as fast. There's a lot of upsides for its kind of like unique application, maybe even avoiding pissing at nighttime. could be used. Really? Potentially, yeah.

Oh, that would help because I always have to be. Yeah. Yeah, one thing that helps me is sauna before bed, though. Sauna before bed, I can generally sleep through the night. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so I'll do, like, a session about an hour before I go to sleep and no water after that. Oh, yeah. That usually does it.

Yeah, if you do a water cut off, that's, like, pretty regimented. It's probably the best overall strategy. As long as you make sure you hydrate in the morning. So I'm pretty diligent about that, first step in the morning. amino acids with water. I do that 99% of the time, like first thing, before coffee, before anything. And do you put electrolytes in it? Yeah, yeah.

I take Gary Breka stuff. It's called Perfect Amino's Inelectualized. I get that in first thing in the morning. Just, you know, get it out of the way. And I didn't used to for the longest time. I would just hit the gym right away and just drink water when I was in there. But I feel a difference. What about, I thought, step.

one was cold plunge. Yeah, it depends. I haven't cold plunged in the last three weeks because I got some stem cells and I'm still saunaing. So it seems like there's a lot of controversy about this in terms of like what you should and shouldn't do post stem cell injection. I have a very minor Achilles tear when I was elk hunting in September. I twisted my ankle pretty bad. And I didn't think anything of it. I stopped limping after like 15 or 20 minutes and I was like, I think I'm okay. And I have, and I was wearing at the time, I was wearing very light boots. They're like, you know, just a real light boot that you wouldn't do for heavy mountain trekking. And we did some steep elevation. And then the real problem is going down. And you're, you know,

when you're going down like several thousand feet over the course of like an, hour. Yeah. It's fucking brutal. And I twisted one of my ankles. And then the next day, I put on a much higher, more rigid boot with great ankle support. And that was fine for the rest of the trip. But then... That's the fucking worst. You just got to like stare at the ground the entire time you're walking because the littlest off step, you just roll your ankle or not only that. You go down. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you could die. Um, it's, we were in pretty steep country in Utah but interestingly I didn't notice anything was wrong until I'd get into a push-up position which is weird so when you know I do 100 push-ups every morning 100 push-ups 100 body-weight squats

that's my warm-up before I do anything and so when I got into like a high push-up position with like my butt up in the air it's a lot of stretching on the Achilles and my left Achilles was fucking killing me like sharp pain I was like fuck this hurts and I thought maybe Maybe it needs to stretch out. So I did something like jump rope doesn't bother me. Jump rope doesn't bother me. Nothing else bothers me. But that position bothered me.

And it was bothered me for like five weeks. And I was like, I got to get this looked at it because it seems like it might be getting worse every time I do that. And so I got it scanned and there's a minor tear in my Achilles. And Achilles tears are a fucking nightmare. You know, if you blow out your Achilles, that's a nightmare. It's a long rehabilitation process. Blood flow to. the area.

Especially at 58, it's a fucking, that's a long recovery. It's like I'm looking at a year before I could do everything again. Then you lose all your gains, all your cardio gain, everything. You can't move right. You're fucked. So I got a stem cell shot in there. And there's a lot of debate about when you should be able to cold plunge after stem cells. And a lot of the literature seems to say three months.

it doesn't seem to think sauna there's more indication that sauna is probably therapeutically beneficial for the stem cells because the idea is that these stem cells are still in the area trying to heal the tissue when you coal plunge you kill them but when you're doing sauna you're increasing blood flow and it might help them so what they said is like I wouldn't do anything for a couple weeks nothing. And then after that just sauna for a while. So I haven't done a cold plunge in over

a month. Seems excessive. I'm scared. I'm scared to go back in because I was so used to it. Oh, you got to get over the hurdle again. I'm so scared. Every time I do it, I almost don't do it. Every fucking time I do it, I almost don't do it. So like for the past month, it's just been get up and just work out and then sauna afterwards.

What's the rehab stack? Is it different than what you were already doing or is it kind of like BBC 157 TB 500 that's it it's definitely improved BPC local in the yes Achilles yeah yeah right there or just pinch the subcue area and kind of like I shove it right in there I think local is the way to go I've done it subcutaneously like in the side and love handles it doesn't have the same effect yeah if you can get it to the area it's like why not yeah I think I think BPC 157 locally is the way to go But it's definitely getting a lot better. It doesn't hurt it all anymore.

Yeah. I'm just making sure it fully heals up. Yeah. Interesting note on kind of like the hormone support stuff this past month, the FDA actually removed most of the black box warnings off of women's HRT products. Yes. Yes. Pretty amazing. Yeah, really amazing because so many women were lied to for so long.

They were told that there's all these negative effects of supplementing. your hormones, but my God, how many fucking people just said lost quality of life for fucking nothing for no science at all? It's just complete horseshit. But there's so much bad fucking science out there, man. It's a real problem. It's hot as shit in here. There's so much bad science out there, man. It almost gets to a point where you almost have to look at things through the lens of, does this sound like nonsense? Yeah. Well, and then where do you go? Like, who do you trust, you know, unless you're well versed in who the respectable online people are. Yeah, like you might see, you know, however many studies that say fill in the blank exotic compound is, like, totally ineffective.

And it's like, who was it tested on for how long? What was the dosage? Right. And like it might be a completely useless interpretation for your specific nuanced scenario. And if you hear hordes of anecdotes from everyone in your circle you trust, who, actually knows what they're talking about, has been in the trenches, knows their body well. You can't really ignore that. What was the narrative about female hormones, and why did they do that for so long?

Do you know? So I think it was in the 90s, the Women's Health Initiative, we're assessing the viability and safety profile of hormone replacement therapy. And I might butcher this a little bit, but in general, the overall context is relatively accurate, I'm sure. And it was like, of a thousand women or something that they tested HRT, I want to say HRT, I put in air quotes, because like... Estrogen. Not even like human bioidentical estrogen. It was like equine horse piss derived estrogens. Horse piss? Yeah. For real?

Yeah. So it was like literally the most synthetic, you know, animal derived shitty estrogen that is not bioidentical at all. and also a synthetic progestin that is not bioidentical to progesterone. It's just like a progestin analog, essentially, that fulfills activity at the receptor, but is otherwise like, you know, the equivalent to putting you on like a microdose of nandrolone or a microdose of, you know, fill in the blank progestin derived compound or 19 nor derived compound that facilitates progestogenic activity, but just is not progesterone. So it's like to try and say, you know, this horse-piss derived estrogen formula and the synthetic progestin we apply to these women is the equivalent of you having been on what you would otherwise produce as a young, healthy, vibrant woman from a bioidentical estradiol and progesterone perspective, simply not accurate, but that's like essentially the comparison that they made and, you know, presented it as such. And the result was a relative risk increase of breast cancer incidents, I believe, to the two.

tune of like one of a thousand women and the absolute number was like three of a thousand the placebo arm had breast cancer incidents and then I think four out of a thousand had breast cancer so then the media ran with a 26 percent increase in risk and like everybody got panicky yeah and like I might be misinterpreting one or two virials but like high level that's essentially what it was and it caused mass hysteria and panic and basically dictated the Facilitation of black box warnings being put on hormone therapy. So the most aggressive FDA warning that shows basically any clinician that's looking at it or anybody who's going to take the risk of using it, this is the most dangerous drug you could use

with the highest risk of like lethal side effect potential. And then on top of that, it just like wasn't representative of what is actual replacement therapy with what is the hormone you would be producing naturally. So for years, you know, we went thinking, oh, it's going to cause clotting issues, it's going to cause cancer, it's going to do this, it's going to do that. And only in the most nuanced edge case scenarios is it justified because, you know, that person just absolutely has a quality of life deterioration is so significant that it's worth it to take the risk to use or hormone replacement therapy. And it's like now similar to some of the like common sense interpretation of things. It's like, this doesn't make sense. Like look at all this literature sharing the cardioprotection.

effects showing the neuroprotective effect showing the bone support and integrity like what you lose if you don't take these hormones like you're essentially giving yourself a worst quality of life inevitably and deteriorating your health unquestionably like with men there is some semblance of residual activity you can maintain and some men maintain vibrant you know reasonable testosterone production until old age but with women it's kind of like like right when the light shut off yeah like drops off Cliff. Yeah. It's interesting how the initial narratives get stuck in the public zeitgeist forever. Like the initial narrative for testosterone replacement was you can get testicular cancer, prostate cancer. And it was just so many people like, I don't want to mess around with testosterone replacement because I can get cancer. And then Brigham Bueller explained that study. Yeah. And explained the real results of that study. And it's like it didn't show that anybody got prostate cancer from it. It's just not true. Yeah, and it's like even the mechanism by which they argue it would cause it doesn't even make mechanistic sense because it's like the only way you're going to increase the prostate growth is via bringing. And it's like, of course, when you use hormones that are androgens, like you're going to grow tissues that they're exposed to, but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing necessarily. And if you're a hypogynatal male who has low T and it goes up to just the threshold of barely acceptable, that's where the growth essentially. stops. And if you go beyond that into like medium normal, high normal, even super physiologic territory, your prostate doesn't linearly grow in exposure. Otherwise, bodybuilders would have massive prostates like busting out of their bodies. Giant dicks. We wish. It didn't have that. Well, how come it grows enlarged clitoris in women?

Because the physiology is essentially interchangeable in that you could have gone in any direction dependent on your exposure to these hormones. So if a man exposes himself to significant amounts of estrogen and has no, has hormone deprivation, there are some irreversible anatomical changes because they've already like matured that will not go away. But like with women, it's like the inverse and you could otherwise get closer to that like extreme scenario where you're, once your voice box gets to a certain like anatomical development, you can't necessarily go back to your high pitched, you know. Yeah, that's a real problem with detransitioners. They keep that voice forever. And the real problem is it never even becomes a man voice. It just becomes weird. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. It's like the in between. Men never develop a voice like, you know, Isaac Hayes. Yeah, that's one of the tough things with HRT too is like as much as I think it's so amazing that it's being educated about and there's widespread attention being brought to the importance of it. There's also the cowboy docs who almost go to the hyper extreme of optimization and are putting women on aggressive dosages of testosterone saying, you've been lying to, you know, this is actually what you need to feel good. And for a woman who's been, you know, asexual for years and feels, you know, has no energy

and they are told this guy is, you know, the cutting-edge dock who everyone sees, they will probably trust his guidance. And as early as before I started Merrick Health, which is my company, my mom was getting hormone therapy guidance from a doc who was relatively well respected and the dose he put her on of testosterone was so aggressive that her voice was changing within weeks and I had to like cut the cord on it I was like what the hell is this and her testosterone levels were like in the like 300 plus whoa yeah so like you're essentially low low normal healthy male territory not like actually but like on a clinical reference range and absolutely potential for

Yeah, and also horny as fuck. Potentially. Yeah. But it's like you didn't need to go there probably to get to horny as fuck. My wife has a friend who got on it and she's a British lady and she had a very funny first. She goes, his stuff makes me feel like a bloke. She goes, I'm horny like a bloke.

Yeah, yeah. Testosterone can be helpful in women for sure and it's an overlooked hormone that is absolutely important in women just the same as it is in men. And it's just like you've got to kind of know what you're getting yourself into to when it comes to like what is reasonable for a doctor to tell you you need and at what like concentrations you should expect, you know, blood level targets to be. Because if you just go in blind, you might end up with the most exotic, you know, like Beverly Hills doc who thinks you should be on like the craziest cocktail ever because he knows you're going to feel it. Right. And respond really, really well immediately. but then also might just, like, fuck you up permanently.

Well, this is also the problem with transitioners. When you're becoming a trans man, right? The initial impact is you, alleviation of anxiety and euphoria. You start feeling great because that's what testosterone does for you. It doesn't mean you're supposed to have that. Your body's going, what the fuck is this? And now you're, you know, essentially you're changing the whole cocktail of your body and you're you know yeah and you're gonna give permanent changes that if you make a decision

when you're 14 15 years old they put you in this stuff those detransitioners are some of the saddest stories man because they've become sterile they'll never have children and you know and they lose their tits because they go to a doctor thinks you should have your memory glands chopped off when you're 15 it's fucking we're in the weirdest of times with all this stuff because it's like what gets accepted and not accepted and what you know what because again like we're talking about the zeitgeist when a thought gets out there and then it's very difficult to move away from that it's like oh you're affirming your true self like really with with synthetic hormones that didn't exist in your body before that's that's your true self yeah are you fucking sure it sounds

like this might be a social contagion yeah is like sweeping through the land and one of the What things is really interesting is the drop-off of kids identifying as trans is it coincides directly with Elon buying Twitter. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like immediately when you could, because you used to not be able to talk about it. You used to literally, if you said, if you dead name someone from Twitter, meaning like if you changed your name to Dominique and I call it Derek, I could get banned from Twitter

for life forever. That's great. Just by using your old name. Like, if I call Bruce Caitlin Jenner Bruce, I would get banned from Twitter for life. Damn. Because it's nuts. Yeah. But it's like this very bizarre social contagion, this weird mind virus that went through the whole country.

And everybody just signed up for it. Like, and no one wanted to be a bigot. So like, oh, I don't want to be a bigot. Yeah, I think as much as I think access to drugs is super like you should have the full liberty to do whatever you want. That's where the importance of educating yourself is so critical because you really don't know what you're subjecting yourself to. If you have an immature brain too, you have not even had full like frontal lobe development to try and think you're going to make a sound decision with how you're going to impact your lifelong physiology. It's like probably. You can't even have a tattoo.

It's not even legal to get a tattooed and you get your penis removed. It's fucking crazy. It's fucking crazy. Oh, they know. Some people know as early as three. I've had conversations with people on this podcast. I have friends that have trans kids and they knew right away. Like, are you sure they didn't have a fucking insane mother and a gay child?

Because that might be what was going on. Yeah. And now this gay child will never have an orgasm again because you've convinced them that they're not a gay child, that they're a woman, which is, in fact, completely homophobic. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting extreme of the scenario, but maybe on the opposite is guys who are in their, in adolescence, who are so hypereducated that they use the non-executive. to biohack their development into becoming as maximally tall and, like, infrastructurally sound as adults as possible. Right, right, right. And that's a really interesting predicament because it's, like, any, like, reasonably ethical doctor will be like, there's no fucking way I'm touching that, like, case of any, overseeing anybody's care who's doing that kind of thing.

I was watching a podcast about this where this guy was talking about his son, and he's short and his son's friends were also short. and their parents got the kid on growth and they grew like a lot bigger than the parents which is Alexander Carellan do you know Corellon's story they call them the experiment he's the freakiest wrestler that has ever existed I know who it is but I don't know that specifically

he was in adolescence that he was subjected well this is speculation on my part have you seen my photo that I have out in the gym it's the photo that I put up to remind myself of what a pussy I really am Is that when he's like about to fucking toss that dude? He's fucking hoisting up that picture, that one. Yeah, that's a famous one.

That guy was 300 fucking pounds and moved like a cat. Like unbelievably mobile and flexible and had like an insane record. I think it was like 280 and 1 or 280 and 2. Like fucking insane. Like one of the most dominant wrestlers of all time. But there's, they call him, in Russia they would call him the experiment. Yeah. And you see his parents, his parents like 5-5, 5.7.

like small people and he's this fucking behemoth of a person and of course the Soviet doping program is legendary the movie Icarus highlights that you know but everybody knew about that the eastern block weightlifters

the females they set records that were never broken again these women completely became men you know like there's there's a lot of evidence that they were doing that to their athletes the fact that they wouldn't do it to their most dominant wrestler

in the history of the fucking sport and the guy who was the absolute biggest freak in the history of wrestling. There was nobody like that guy. Yeah, we should talk about some of those Russian drugs. I heard you bring up trimtazin with somebody the other day. But before that, have you ever heard of the Lionel Messi story? No. Okay, so did you know that he was destined to be a dwarf if he didn't get on huge amounts of growth hormone?

Really? Yeah. So he got supplied with pharmaceutical growth hormone by the team that was trying to get him to basically be with them. Well, he's a small guy as it is, right? Yeah. So he grew to what is otherwise an acceptable adult height, but he otherwise was destined to be literally a dwarf,

whatever the socially acceptable term is. Wow. Yeah, so they either paid for his pharmaceutical growth hormone and got it for him, paid for it, made sure he was taking it, or he didn't become the greatest, some argue, you know, the football player of all time. Well, it's also you have to take any consideration,

Like, how much of effect did that have on his performance? I mean, it definitely... That guy can do things that no one else can do. Well, he definitely wouldn't have grown to the height he is. But it's not just the height. It's the explosive movement, his ability to change direction, like, better than anybody. The infrastructure is obviously supporting of it. I don't necessarily know...

It would be impossible to, like, really quantify that there's no, like, you know, A-B test of it. Right. Right. There's no placebo-controlled trial. You know, if he didn't do it, he would not be even playing. Wow. I did not know that. Yeah, it's probably one of the most overlooked, but wild cases of a professional athlete who, like, needed to go, like, full board to the tits.

How old was he when they did that, too? A young teen, if not a child. Seeing 11 years old. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It was like you either take this at the dose that is going to, like, push you to, like, push you to. you know, maximum IGF1 output territory and we get you to as high of maturation as possible

or you're not going to be a professional player. How tall is Messi now? 5-7. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. You know, I told you the Yo-O. Romero story, right? Probably?

Yo-O. Romero is the biggest athletic freak I've ever seen in my life. And I've seen a lot of athletic freaks. Like, Yo-L. Romero, when he, I believe it was in Australia, he was fighting. And after the fight, goes to a doctor to get checked up, he had a fractured orbital, he had a, you know, rough fight. The doctor examines him and then says to the UFC, where did you get this guy? Oh, yeah. I tell you this? Yeah, and they go, hey, he's great, right?

He goes, no, no, no. His tendons and his eyes are three times the size of a normal person. Oh, right, right, right. They said his orbital bone is already healing. Crazy. Like, what do they do to him? Because he was on the Cuban Olympic program. Yeah.

You know, and the way he talks about it, like the program was like so regimented. In fact, they had tiers of athletes and the highest tier ate three times a day. The tier below that ate two times a day. So it motivated you literally to get more food to compete. And you're competing with these guys that their entire life is wrestling. That is everything. And it literally can feed their family. It's a matter of whether or not their family gets food, whether it changes your social.

status and he goes and because of that you become a machine that's how he's saying it I could do a good yo l you become a machine and he's the biggest freak of all time in fact everybody who fights him says hitting him hurts yeah yeah what Robert Whitaker said he's like hitting metal he goes dude he's like you hit the guy he doesn't feel like a normal person he goes it's like you're hitting metal he's still competing but in uh was it one is dirty boxing his dirty boxing was his latest one um he's don't he's almost 50 he's jacked as fuck now he's a heavyweight full six pack almost 50 years old fucking gigantic i mean now he's got to be geared up i mean i would imagine because he's in these

like fringe leagues that you know you'd think their drug test is a fucking multiple choice what do you are i'm on jesus he had that famous speech he was saying don't forget about Jesus. He goes, don't forget Jesus. And everybody thought he was saying, no gay, Jesus is not gay. Oh, my God. And so they thought he was homophobic.

And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no for gay Jesus. And he was saying, don't forget Jesus. Like, Jesus is important. And everybody was like, oh, my God, Yoel Romero used his platform to say homophobic things after a fight. Like, no, he can't speak English very well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and he's religious.

I feel like, yeah, that guy, he, uh, I always felt like if he just kind of, like, threw himself into the fire more, he could just, like, crush it. The problem is cardio. When you're carrying around that much weight, you know, first of all, wrestling, his wrestling was above and beyond anybody else. But he was just, like, slug when he didn't need to. Well, they get in love with knocking people out, first of all. And that guy's explosive capacity was, he knocked out Chris Wybman, one of the fucking scariest flying knees I've ever. ever seen in my life. It was a great fight up until the moment he put Chris Weidman into the shadow realm, but he hit him with his flying knee just explode. He lulls you. So what Israel

looks like he's tired or whatever? Then he jumps on you. And his ability to close the distance is so, it's like you think about wrestlers. Like, did you see Bo Nichols last knockout? Um, he knocked out Adolfo Vieira with a head kick. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was spectacular. But what Bo Nick, Bo Nichols is an elite wrestler, like a top shelf blue chip wrestler. And one of the things that wrestlers have is this ability to close distance because they're, you know, they're on the outside and they can just shoot doubles. So that explosion naturally lends itself to closing the distance and striking because, you know, it's the same kind of thing. If you develop good striking and Adolfo Vieira, who's like, fucking super jacked, but he's a ghee jujitsu guy. Gee Jiu-Jitsu is all about strength and control technique as well, but it's a tight game.

It's not a game of, like, jumping, moving across distance quick. It's a game of they're gripping each other, and then, you know, it's a lot about strength and it's a lot about technique, but it's not about closing distance. So Hodolfo Vieira is like a plotting, like really super jack guy, and Bo Nichols just lied on his feet, moving on the outside, and just closing the distance, cracking them, getting out. and he hits him with his fucking bomb head kick and puts him to sleep. But it's that ability to close the distance. Nobody did that better than Yoel. Yoel was the best at that because he's just a fucking unbelievable athlete. And with Izzy, he fought Israel at Asanya and Izzy said, dude, I had to stay on the outside with that guy.

I could not just go after him because the counters would come so fast. he he he he he he he caught him with a big left hand early in the fight and he was like oh well fuck this he's like we're gonna make this a boring fight yeah i'm just gonna win a decision on this motherfucker because it's just the consequences of being too close to him where he can do that yeah it's just you have to fight a technical fight with that guy to stay on the outside pick at him move a lot don't set don't set your feet ever never be in a place where he can just like uh because he can just launch on you and blast you. Yeah. On the

flip side of that, the leaping in the middle way of Chamaev, ruthless to watch. That was like the most painful fight I've seen recently. Oh yeah, the trick is duplicacy fight. Yeah. Well, that's just levels and levels above everyone else. This like closing distance,

even when you know what's about to come. Can't stop it. Yeah. Once he gets his hands on you, you're fucked. His, his, that there's something about that, that kind of wrestling from the Chechens, and the Dagestanis and maybe even him more than any of the other ones is it's just so aggressive and he chains things together so well and if you're not training with guys like that

like Shob told me that he went to see Chamaev when Chimaiov is in training camp for Dreykestuplecy and he called me up he goes dude listen to me he goes like Shob was a top 10 UFC heavyweight he's been around forever you know he was in camp with George St. Pierre when George St. Pierre was in his prime. Mark Whart, Nate Mark Quart, Mrs. Prime. He's like, dude, I've never seen nothing like this. He goes, they were bringing in world-class wrestlers, and he's fucking rag-dalling them. He goes, he's a freak. He goes, he's going to fuck, drink us up. I go, really? He goes, dude, if he gets a hold of that guy, he's fucked. Turned out to be 100% accurate.

Yeah, it was like the most obscene example I've seen. His wrestling is obscene. That's a great way to put it. His wrestling is obscene. And if you can't compete like this one thing that I said about Drickus after that fight was like that gap is so wide that's like jumping across the Grand Canyon you're not going to make it like you would have to start you'd have to get a time machine go back to the time when you're six and start wrestling in Dagestan like you've you've got to like have those kind of skills to compete with that guy yeah only an elite wrestler who can also strike is going to be able to fuck with that guy Unless he gets silly and decides to strike with some

Whether it's a pair of running shoes Or a new car You check how well something performs before you buy it Why should investing be any different? At Fidelity, we get that performance matters most With sound financial advice and quality investment products We're here to help with accelerating your dreams Chat with your advisor or visit

Fidelity.ca slash performance to learn more Commission's fees and expenses may apply Read the funds or ETF's prospectus before investing Funds and ETFs are not guaranteed. Their values change and past performance may not be repeated. Someone and they K-O-em. Other than that, I just can't see anybody fucking with that guy. Yeah, I mean, it's, I guess, needs somebody stylistically to match up to really...

Bo Nickel. Yeah. But Bo has to grow as a fighter. You know, he has to grow as a fighter, and he's doing that. I mean, he's a unbelievably dedicated and disciplined guy. And if anybody can do it, he can do it because he's got that elite wrestling. Like, if they had a wrestling match, it would be fantastic. But Chamev is a much better striker right now, at least has been, up until this last fight with Vieira, which was a huge knockout.

But Vieira was kind of a standing target for Bo. What did you think of the Ustman positive test result? Kind of interesting. Oh, the bigger Ustman. Yeah, the older brother. Yeah, duh. That's a duh. He's fucking huge.

I'm, yeah, I mean. It's unfortunate, you know, because. Because the heavyweight division is so devoid of talent. Yeah. Gable Stevenson is the fucking guy. Yeah. That's the guy. That's the guy.

He's not even in the UFC yet. I mean, that Olympic gold medalist, fucking freak athlete, 250 pounds, moves like a cat. That's the guy that he's every, I sent a text message to Dana White. I sent him a video of Gable's last fight. I said, everyone's fucked. Everyone's fucked when this guy comes out. He caoed this guy with a left hand. He caoed this guy with a left hand and then took him down.

as he was knocked out. Watch this knockout because it's so fucking crazy. The speed that this guy has first of all really good striking already and he's only been striking for like a fucking year. But watch when he chaos this guy, he hits him with a punch, boom and then takes him down. Jesus. Dude, everyone's fucked. And then just, well I mean that's just nuts, man. That kind of speed is nuts for a heavyweight. Look at that left hook. Boom. Takes him down. Smash. And then... That's like a video game combo. Exactly.

And he can do backflips and shit. When he fought in dirty boxing, he knocks the guy out, and then he leaps over the top rope and lands on the apron. Just leaps over the top rope with, like, effortless. Freak. Just a real freak. And again, just like, watch this chaos. When he chaos this guy, but first of all, this guy has no business being in there with him. But this is just boxing.

This is what they call dirty boxing. boom so you could ground and pound guys so is this like the modern day DC sort of oh he's maybe even better and bigger a lot bigger see how he jumped over that rope watch that again super athletic but like doesn't kind of unassuming exactly

well I mean not really unassume he's a fucking house man he just doesn't his higher body fat but look how he jumped over that rope oh yeah when you see that of course watch it to show that again yeah that was insane look look at just effortless leaps over that fucking

that's like five feet he just jumps over it like it's nothing and after fighting after fighting but literally with no effort just hops over it like it didn't exist lands perfectly he's a freak man

and he's training with John Jones and he's training with like some of the best fighters and he's training and he's trying to fight every month he's trying to get as much experience as he can before he gets into the UFC and he's coming and everybody's in trouble how old is you 25

Oh, geez. They're all fucked. Yeah. Everyone's fucked. I mean, everyone is fucked. Because there's no, other than John, there's no one that can wrestle with that guy in that sport. And the thing about a guy who could wrestle like that is if he can strike like that, the problem with wrestling is you're always worried about the takedown.

So that opens you up to strikes. Yeah. Because you're always like every faint you're thinking he's going to shoot for your legs, but then boom, he catches you with a left hook. And the speed that guy has, it's like a lethal combination of athletes. of athleticism, speed, power, size, and an insane wrestling pedigree. I mean, Olympic gold medalist, as good as it gets with wrestling. I think the last time I heard you talk about a guy like this, at least when I was on,

was Pereira before he came in. Similar. Yeah. Similar kind of thing, where he's a specialist, you know, but. You're like, watch out for this fucking guy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I remember DC was like, come on, man.

I'm like, dude, I'm telling you, this guy is different. Because I had been a huge fan of Pereira when he was fighting in glory and you know you'd watch him hit guys and they'd go flying across the ring Like what a fuck is that guy made out of? And when you like when I interview him like I put my hand on him It's like this table dude he's like made out of oak like he's fucking dense and there's something about the way he throws punches Have you ever seen him punch that that machine you know that machine that like generates like it shows you that effortless but it's like super high power He hit it with his right hand because his left hand had been bothering him, and he got a hundred and ninety. The previous, like Francis and Gano got a 129. He got a 190 with a right hand.

It's fucking insane, dude. I got like 150 with a kick. This guy got 190 with a punch. One 90's insane. And it's his right hand. I bet his left hand is probably 200. It's fuck. See if you can find that video.

It got deleted from the way I was. It got deleted? The way he was being advertising to Google it is not... People like hide it. Somewhere else. Bro, he hit so hard that Mark Goddard after he fought Khalil Roundtree,

after he just beat Khalil Roundtree across the octagon. Mark Goddard, when they were announcing the CO and raising his hand, Mark comes up to me at the end of the fight, he goes, the sound. The sound it makes when that guy hits people is ungodly.

He goes, I've been doing this for 20 years, mate. He goes, it's un-gawed. Watch this. 1-70. Oh my gosh. Bro. Bro. Bro.

Pray that again. Play that. Just look at the force that this guy generates. There's something about, it's the leverage because of his take. That's us watching it. 170. Oh, my God. Well, that's nuts.

Yeah. That's nuts. He's got, power's a weird thing, man. You're born with it. Like, nothing else. Like, there's a lot of skills that you can acquire, but there's a threshold to how hard you're going to be able to hit. And I think it's based on body mechanics.

It's based on the frame. It's based on the size of your hand. He has massive hands. It's based on, there's just a lot of factors. explosive fast-twitch muscle fiber. Some people don't have a lot of it. Some people are more of an endurance fighter and they don't hit his hard, but they could just get you with combinations and they put you away eventually.

But Pereira is different, man. It's like in, like David Goggins always likes to say, he's uncommon amongst uncommon men. Yeah. It's interesting that his chin seems to be holding up really well. I like anyway. Yeah. And he has been knocked out before he's getting older.

and like he seems fine. Well, it's because he was not cutting weight anymore. There's nothing that fucks your chin up more than dehydration. When he was losing weight, he was getting down to 185 pounds, and he was weighing in the day of the fight at 226. 2.26, weighing in at 185, you cut weight and then rehydrating up to 226 a day later. Damn. Like, you don't rehydrate your brain, man.

And so you can't take shots. You can't take shots as well. And it's a common thread. amongst fighters. Like Jack Hermanson, he got knocked out by Gregory Rodriguez at 185. And Gregory Rodriguez is another one. He's a freak. Just a giant 185. It doesn't even make sense. You're standing next to him. I weigh 200 pounds and I stand next to him. I'm a little short me. And I'm like, how? How the fuck are you 15 pounds lighter than me? That's not even, this is science. Like, it doesn't even make sense. And so Jack went down to 170 and just got caoed the other day. Bad. Just bad. Just bad. Because I think that you're way more vulnerable. Like Frankie Edgar is a perfect example because Frankie, when he was in his prime at 155, didn't cut any weight. He was one of the rare guys that was a 155 pound champion that was actually 155 pounds when he fought. And just amazing durability because of that.

Because he didn't dehydrate himself. So he was like optimal. And there's like this point of diminishing returns where, You know, you're physically bigger, you're stronger, but you can't take shots. And you also fatigue quicker because your body essentially almost died 24 hours ago. Yeah. I mean, these guys get to death's door to make weight. Their whole face is sucked in.

Their eyeballs are pulled back in their head. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. Yeah, I think more attention is going to come to how to actually ensure your brain stays safe in the sports for longevity purposes as people kind of realize how impactful. Like the weight cutting especially can be, but also like if you end up getting knocked out, you might not come back to Sam and some of the strategies that should be employed after those fights as well to actually restore as quickly as possible and avoid permanent degradation. Well, it's like there's two schools of thought. There's one school of thought that I'm in which we need to expand the weight classes. So we have more weight classes and we need to somehow or another institute some sort of hydration policy where you cannot dehydrate your.

yourself and weigh in and pretend that you weigh one 70 when really you weigh 210 because there's a lot of guys doing that and the other school of thought is they should be able to hydrate with IVs because they used to be able to hydrate with IVs the blood brain barrier like and the hydration of the brain it takes much longer to rehydrate your brain than it does to rehydrate your muscle tissue yeah and so these guys are going in there their muscles are full but their brain is dehydrated and they're vulnerable to getting knocked out and I I think that's what happened with Pereira, particularly with the Izzy fight. But Izzy caught him with a picture perfect right hand, just right on the chin and then followed it up with a left hook. But it was just he didn't have the durability at 185 that he has at 205. At 205 he's been dropped, like Khalil dropped him. Guys have dropped him and, you know, Ancolaev rocked him, but he can take it. He could take it at 205. Yeah.

And now he's talking about going all the way up to heavyweight, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, I mean like all power to him if he does Fuck, who doesn't want to see you Oh yeah I mean I would love to see him Fight John Jones at the White House And what's your ideal White House card look like John Jones versus Pereira

For sure Connor McGregor versus Michael Chandler That would be awesome You know you want to have some fun Like that's a fun fight You know and then You'd probably want like

Islam Makachev versus Ilya That would be insane you know maybe even at 155 I don't know if Islam even wants to make 155 anymore but Ilya said he would fight him at 170 which is crazy because I'll be smaller than me like that's another guy what's his walk around wait

I don't know I don't know but that's another guy that has the touch of death there's guys that just have freaky power hopefully he doesn't let his personal shit derail whatever is happening I know I know like you're in your late 20s and it's like not the time bro I know it's crazy I don't know what happened

I don't know what happened with the wife. I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I mean, you can't, I'm sure the internet has their speculation, but the timing is very odd with, like, one of these interviews he did where somebody was almost seemed to plant in his head that like, if you meet a wife in Miami that she's probably like not a, you know, good, you know. Is that where he met her? I think so, yeah. And it was like, but he lives in Spain. And somebody, I forget who it was, but somebody. like jokingly said oh you met like it looks like you can meet quality women in Miami crazy

like you would have never thought and then he was like visibly shook he was like what do you mean by that oh no and the guy was like did I just offend you and you're gonna fuck me up or like what is happening right now and he was just seemed to like almost internalize that is there a reason I shouldn't trust Miami women and I haven't considered it and then it's just like you can't help but think with the timing the fucking wheels are turning oh god I didn't know that he met her in Miami. I don't know if that's even true because he lives in Spain. Or if it even is like relevant at all, but it's just weird timing. I would imagine it's relevant. Meeting a woman in Miami. Like I mean the, the factor certainly support that it's like a more likely chance that she's not the person she represented herself as potentially. Well, not just that. It's the culture of Miami. I always say that if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami. It's like people are just partiers. It's like you should have a passport to go to Miami. It's barely America. Yeah. It's Fun. It's a great city. A lot of fun. But it doesn't really lend itself to like the kind of like sturdy stay-at-home mom support for a world champion.

Because the discipline involved in being not just a world champion, but a world champion on Ilius level, you know, like a two-division dominator goes up, knocks out Charles Olivera like it's nothing, which is crazy. Not only that, had a celebration the night before the fight. Celebrating his victory. That was almost like Gordon Ryan shit, like times two. Like times two. Yeah, yeah. And even apologize to Charles, I'm sorry it has to be you. Yeah. You know, I love you.

You're a great guy. Sorry it has to be you. Like, super respectful of Charles. He's a legend. You know, and then flat lines have been the first round. Like he said he was going to. He's like, trust me, I'm going to knock him out in the first round. One punch.

Boom. Touch of death. It's like he's, there's guys that have. And for him, it's like not a big guy. Right? Like not extremely muscular. like there's nothing he's not massive but it's mechanics his mechanics are fucking perfect his timing is fucking perfect belief in himself technique everything it's like all the above but it's like

there's guys that you can't let hit you and ilia's one of them and i think that probably carries all the way up to 170 i just don't i mean the difference between so 170 look at him and then look at some of the big 170. It's like Jack Delamattelena. He's a fucking big guy. Like there's like big, like Michael Venom Page. He's fucking huge. That would be a nightmare matchup for, for Ilya.

If he really did decide to go to 170, a guy like Venom, because you can't hit that guy. Like if you can't hit that guy and he can hit you and he's a point fighting champion. So that is the absolute best style of the blitz of like being able to close distance quickly. Nobody does that like MVP. He's the best at it. The best had it may be of all time. Yeah, I wonder if it would be kind of like when Canello tried to go up, and then it was kind of like... And he fought Beval?

Yeah. Yeah. I could see that sort of being the Ogun, where it's not as... Yeah, could be. But Canello, it's like later in his career, you know? But it's like, there'll be a giant problem. But also, you have, like, the disadvantage of it's actually MMA versus just boxing. But, like, yeah, the guy is one of the most exciting guys to watch has...

Is a great representative, too? Yeah. when he was on your show dude oh he's amazing oh my god dude like could you have said more right things yeah i know he's great and then that just is unfortunate for any misalignment of your personal life at this time of your career somebody's got to get him a bad woman he's got to get his boys in his corner just like get his mind you know dialed kill he has children with this lady too so it's like oh god yeah yeah i mean it's like you know that's what it is regardless of what he's saying you know when he's like i gotta get

my personal life in order and the timing of everything. And I think there's actually, is it publicly media about the, there's like a divorce now or something? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's public. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Well, she's taking photos with rappers and shit.

Oh. Yeah, putting it on Instagram. No. Yeah. You know how they do it? They try to steal your soul. Jesus. Put a fucking knife right in your spirit.

Dude, that's crazy. Yeah, man. There's, hell has no fury like a woman scorned. Well, hopefully that helps them think he made the right call then. I guess. I guess, but does that help? This is the mother of your children, and this lady is a monster. There's nothing worse than feeling, like, psychologically duped by somebody, too.

Well, I don't know if it is psychologically duped, or if it's like once she's not on your side, you know, then it's just like... Then it's just burn the house down. Yeah. You know, and there's a lot of ladies like that because they feel like you hooked up with a guy who's an incredibly special human being, the rarest of rare. Not just a UFC world champion, but a two-due. division world champion superstar who the whole world wants to see and you're his wife so you you're like oh look at me i'm married to the baddest motherfucker alive and then he doesn't want to be with you anymore like oh really well i'm gonna fucking take you down and women that's what they love is reputation

destruction that's what they're really that's what they really are experts in when shit goes sideways what's the typical outcome of these cases where it's like super famous person wife claims that she is 50% responsible for their success, tries to take half. Is that like, if there's no pre-in-up, that's kind of just what happens? Depends on where they are, right? So I don't know where they got married. You know, where they're getting divorced? I was like, is it in Spain?

What kind of laws to stay now? He seems like a super traditional guy who, like, probably didn't even get the right shit set up. God, I hope not. He seems really, like, innocent, you know, trust. It looked like a perfect marriage. Yeah. That's what's crazy. But this is the ugliness of social media, right?

Yeah. is that everybody wants to put out this pretend image of perfection that everything's perfect and so you have photos of you holding hands and walking together and kissing I love you more than anything in life and you post it out there for the world and you're putting on a show for the world but meanwhile it's like all sorts of internal bullshit that's going on you're trying to work through and you're hoping it works out and then when it falls apart you're like fuck and then you've got to go back on your Instagram and delete all those pictures. Isn't it better to just, like, not talk about any of it publicly and just, like, keep your relationship shit, like, private, you would think?

I think most of your life you should keep it. I think social media in general, and not just for famous people, just in general, is way worse for people that it is good, especially Instagram. Yeah. I think many a person has ruined their life on Twitter. Many a person has said things on Twitter that's tanked their career, ruined their life. You know, it's just the motivation to get attention for your words and your images is very toxic. It's very dangerous. And you're playing with explosives.

It's just not smart. It's just not a good thing to engage in. I am much happier when I rarely am on social media. And so I, like, dip my toes in, see what everybody's mad about, and then I get the fuck out and move on with my day. And I never try to portray myself in any way other than who. who I actually am. I don't, I'm not interested in like some fucking, you know, some video montage with fucking music and inspirational quotes.

If somebody else makes that, that's fine. I'm not involved. But I'm not putting anything like that up and checking the likes. Get the fuck out of here. That's bad for you. I think it's bad for your, the good and the bad. The negatives, the people hating on you is bad for you, like, oh, well, that's not me at all. Hey, why are you saying that?

And then the good's not good for you either. Because then you start believing your own bullshit and think your shit doesn't smell. It's crazy. It's bad for you. It's the opposite of mindfulness. It's the opposite of being in the moment. It's the opposite of that. Because you're like living for other people's attention that you don't even know.

You don't even know these people. And you're allowing them to comment on like your wife and your family. You're holding her hand and you're renewing vows. You're on your knee. presenting her a ring in a video what the fuck are you doing yeah like why would you do that that's a private thing if it's real love between the two of you then if it's like if you're really working work hard in silence what is this what are you doing like what is all this about but it's just for likes everybody is addicted to these likes you i want to see the numbers only 6 000 likes this is

crazy i bared my soul for you i just think it's really bad for people and Also, it's like most people don't know what fame really is. They think they do. And then they get it. And then they think they can manage it. And then the fucking psychology behind it. And the spinning that goes on in your mind when you're trying to go to bed and you're worried about all the mean things people are saying about you. It's like, ugh.

It's just bad. It's just not good. What's the strategy now for you have burner phone or like how do you do just like divorce yourself from the? I just don't read it. I don't read anything. and I don't You did a burner phone for a while Yeah I well

Ultimately I do have a burner phone Well I don't have a burner phone I have a phone that I give to people that are just annoying Or that I don't really want to Like I leave it at home and never check it So there's certain like business stuff And I don't want business stuff To be entering into my life all the time

So I have like regimented times Where I check things and respond to people But I think my next phone number Which I'm changing soon Is going to be no social media at all. And then my other phone number, I'm just going to do that with it. I'm just going to do my social media posts, all the stuff that I have to do. Like, hey, I got a show coming up or, hey, this guy was great. It's a podcast happening. Post and ghost is what I do. Post, then get out of there.

But I'm not going to have any social media on my new phone. I just generally think it's bad for you. And it gets in the way of, it's an abuse of precious resources. That's what I think. so do you have a like podcast and stuff on it or like how do you do you entertain yourself with actual social media or like no i'll entertain myself with youtube it's hard to not like have this shit infiltrate when you have like a taste of it it's like before you know it you're sitting on the toilet looking at social media or something yeah that's a night another nice thing that i like to do is not look at my phone when i'm on the toilet just go to the toilet and just leave it there i've been leaving my phone on do not disturb too which is also a nice thing i like doing that put it on do not do not disturb and check it occasionally every now and then check it and you know you could set up do not disturb where certain people can get through like my wife can get through my kids can get through best friends can get through but it's just like i think that for the most part what you're what you're doing is you're using very valuable resources on things that aren't valuable at all yeah it's part of the reason i uh work best late at night as much as i would love to have the

perfect circadian rhythm and you know go to bed at the perfect time and align it With the sun going down, blah, blah, blah. It's like the only time my phone and all the stuff is not blowing up. It's in the middle of the night. And I can just focus and not have to think about stuff, you know, blasting me. Me too. Yeah. My best writing is always late at night when everyone's asleep.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's also it's like there's something about late at night where the world seems a little bit more crazy that I think my mind is like a little more tuned to danger and chaos and just like it seems like more heightened because it's dark out. You know, it's dark out and everyone's a sudden. sleep. I'm like, what is the world really made out of? Like, that's where I do my best thinking. It's funny because when I look out, I just see, like, calm. There's no traffic. And I'm just like, this is nice. That too, but I, night is when I worry about war. That's when I worry about, I know. It's not good. Sometimes I let it get in my head. That's when I get my most anxiety about

the future of the world. It's like night. There's something about that. Do you still smoke weed A fair bit or? Allegedly. Yeah. How's that? It's great for writing. Oh, that's not good for paranoia. That's what I was asking.

Yeah, well, it makes you hyper-sensitive to danger. Yeah, yeah. But it's really great for creativity. For creativity, there's nothing like it. And for comedy, it's a steroid. It's like the best, like, it is the best performance enhancing drug ever created for writing comedy. Oh, really? Yeah, there's nothing like it.

Like, especially edibles. Like, you have thoughts that, like, you. Like, you're like, okay, I don't even know if I would ever have that thought without weed. Like, that thought is, weed wrote that joke. I barely, barely had anything to do with that. What's the ideal edible dose? Depends on your tolerance. Zero tolerance.

Oh, 10. 10 milligrams might fuck you up, though. Maybe five. Maybe five is good. You know, that's like in the places where it's legal, like if you go to New York or L.A., they, I think L.A. has a 10 milligram threshold. I think you can only get 10. That's the highest you can get. tens a lot for someone who doesn't do it

but you know Joey Diaz will pop like a 250 he'll pop a five he'll pop two 50s he's a fucking freak though like his tolerance is like nothing I've ever seen in my life he used to dose people he would take like a 25 milligram edible and he'd take the wrapper off and put a 250 milligram

edible in and give it to his co-host oh my god dude it's like I think it's funny but like I'm not yet It's only funny because it's Joey It was anybody that he didn't love you Be like what the fuck is wrong with you But when Joey does it

It's just like oh my God So you just think you're dying Like unreasonable or something You just know And he's over there laughing Ha ha ha ha And you're just sitting there spiraling Knowing that you fucked you up

Yeah He just always says I want to see the devil He goes fuck this mic with those things I want to see the devil He likes seeing the day He likes getting freaked out He likes it

But I mean For creativity I think it has a place That's the comedian juice right there. Yeah, I think, you know, not for everybody. Some people don't like it at all. You know, I know some really great comics that are Stone Cold Sober. And for them, it's just, they just like to sit and think.

But a lot of the best ones that I know, they have switched over to either a flip phone or a phone with nothing on it. No social media at all. I think eventually you realize, like, that time you're spending, just scrolling mindlessly through things. things. It's such precious resources. You only have so much time in a day and you're spending time just looking at nonsense. But also the other side of it is you do want to have your finger on the pulse of society. You want to kind of know what's going on in the world. Yeah, if you're a comedian, how do you even like talk about pop culture and stuff that's trending or whatever? Well, interestingly enough, I get sent enough things.

Oh, it's like consolidated for you? Yeah. I get sent enough things by my friends. I get sent enough things by my friends that are fucked up that I don't have to go looking. So I go, Jesus, is that real? And then I'll maybe, you know, do a search and find out that it is real and then read about it and like, oh, what? But that I think is probably valuable because it's keeping you informed. It's the endless, mindless scrolling that I think is the most detrimental. And the one that robs you of the most time because, you know, you could be sitting down at the kitchen table and all of a sudden you have this plan for the day, you're going to get going, you're drinking a cup coffee and then you know 45 minutes is gone yeah 45 you get a brutal fucking workout in 45

minutes but you didn't do anything there's nothing more guilty feeling than having wasted like your six to eight really sharp mental hours any could any part of that on something that dumb I feel so bad when I do it yeah when I have done it in the past I just feel like how did I do it again yeah yeah how did I let it get me yeah it's like you feel like a like an idiot or like a druggie or something it's like well you are you're a low level druggie you know it's a low drug. It's not even a good one. It's not even like, I feel great. This is amazing. It doesn't even do that to you. Sean, um, Sugar Sean O'Malley had a great quote. He said, even when I'm just regular scrolling, if it has nothing to do with me, he goes, I get a low level

anxiety. And I'm like, yeah, me too. Like, it's weird. And I think that low level anxiety is like a little bit of as you know you're wasting your time, you know. Yeah, for sure. When he fought Marab the second time, he got totally off social media for like months and months. Oh, probably the best strategy. Yeah, it still didn't help, you know. Yeah. I mean, at least he put in, like, did what he thought would work, though. Did his best.

There's a lot of people that will succumb to the pressure at the max level and check the, you know, what people were saying about them, who's going to win. That's the worst, man. Watching your training footage you posted and, you know, fuck this guy. He's talking about whatever. Yeah. I mean, some people thrive on it. They like haters.

bodybuilding is the worst for it too I'm sure it's just as bad as an MMA but it's like your entire physique is like your social media brand so it's like you post your physique and then the feedback you get you kind of have to look at

I guess because it's like what you compete with too so you're literally taking judge feedback that's subjective and taking what they're telling you is wrong with your body to fix and then you're just bombarded by people in the comments section

are like you lost because of this you're lazy, how do you not get in shape? And it's like even down to the lighting on stage can make you look much worse than you actually are. I'm like, you showed up with soggy glutes, bitch. And it's like, I'm fucking shredded. Like, what are you talking about? Soggy glutes is hilarious. Yeah.

And it's like back in the 90s, I don't know what it was, but it was like some of the lighting too was almost so bad that it gave this granular, sharp, kind of like pixelated but like etchy look to the physiques. would look like they were more cut and defined and just better downlighting overall. And some of these shows, they're so washed out with the high resolution and like the perfect. I want to say perfect, it's like almost overexposed lighting to show what's going on on the stage. That they look watery and fat even when they're like, and I say watery and fat like, you know, like the fucked up perception of the fitness industry. It's like proportional to what you're expected to look like. But it's like they could be shredded out of their mind and like haven't worked so hard to show up. shape and then just get like decimated online from some fucking keyboard warrior who's like

you're back is like too watery bro go back to the fucking elliptical you know well it's also like bodybuilding is the sport of ego right because it's only about what you look like yeah that's crazy that's the whole thing it's not about how fast you are like like like gable i was like he's not shredded yeah you know but he's ultimate freak yeah you know look like B.J. Penn in his prime. Like, there's a lot of guys who were, they were never shredded. They were always just smooth and fuck people up. David Benavitas, another one, like elite world-class boxer, light heavyweight champion.

A little muffin top. Did you see this last fight? Benevita's fought Anthony Yard. Okay, perfect contrast. It just happened last weekend. Oh, I missed that one. Yard is fucking shredded. He is an Adonis.

He is a Greek god He is literally like you look at him There's no way if you saw the two of them You would say that guy in the left That has no abs and his smooth He's gonna fucking destroy the guy on the right Nobody would believe it See if you can find

Yeah the two of them together There's no way There's no way David Benavides is one of scariest guys alive Because he's relentless He's so fucking skillful He's so fast His brutal combinations

But he's so unimpressive physically looking at him. And Yard looks like you would expect in a movie. Like the perfect scary opponent. Like there's Benavides. Oh, yeah. Look at him. I mean, it looks like an athlete, right?

Looks in shape. But now, where do you see Yard? Look at Yard. Shredded. Yeah, like fitness. Fucking shredded. And brutal power, too. But it just couldn't fuck with Benavides. See, go way deep into the fight

before he stops him yeah I mean Benavides was just putting it on him just standing right in front and yard the thing about having that much musculature there's just a reality of your you know the oxygen yeah just beat

the shit out of him man yard's really good man he's a really good boxer but Benavita's like look the difference in the physiques man his physique is perfect yeah I mean it's almost like a limitation for some people where you're just like sapping up so much oxygen-carrying capacity to supply the tissue.

But it's also, there's a skill gap. I mean, Benavita is super fucking skillful. And this is the guy that people say Canelo's been avoiding. He kind of probably has. Because Benavitas is the up-and-coming Mexican champion that everybody loves. And Canello is, you know, the king. And everybody was like, this is the big fight at 168. And so Benavitas had to go up to 175 to get big fights because Canello wouldn't fight him

at 168 Huh Canello is Is he just kind of like Picking and choosing Look at this bro Come on man This fucking guy's good

He's so good How old is it? He's young man I think Benavitas is Is he 28? How old is David Benavitas He's young Okay

Young and elite And going through his prime Right now How old is he 28, yeah Oh girl Yeah In his prime

You know he's even more unassuming is like half the NHL players that play hockey. Oh, really? Oh, dude. Like, have you ever seen somebody look more like a frat bro who does not play sports? NHL players? Well, those guys have crazy cardio. Yeah. Crazy cardio. But you would never think.

Like, I used to bounce downtown Vancouver and we'd have the teams come by that would play the Canucks and they would come party at the champagne lounge and the club that I was bouncing at. And he'd be like, this guy is like, you know, a professional athlete. It would be the whole team and half of them looked like, you know, some dude that's like, you'd do like a fucking kegstand with it, like, you know, a party.

And that's like the max of his athletic capacity is being like held up to chugs and beer or something. Well, I bet those guys drink a lot. Oh, yeah. A bit of it out of all the athletes that drink is got to be hockey players at the top of the heap, right? Yeah. And they're, they're fucking super athletic or good endurance, you know, it's like just so unassuming physique-wise. It's like. It's all legs.

Yeah. It's got to be all legs. I bet they're shredded from the waist down. Yeah, it's crazy seeing the sport-specific translation in actual, like, physical, like, physiology that's conducive to your sport. You see a sprinter, and it's like, you know, he's a fucking 100-meter sprinter. And then you see, you know, another guy, and it's like, you might not even think he plays sports. You know, I thought that when I went to the professional soccer team here in town, Austin FC, these guys have these fucking quarter-horse legs. And then like real thin upper bodies

Like they don't use their arms They don't use literally Unless you're a goalie You don't use them Yeah so they have like tiny little upper bodies Massive fucking legs And insane cardio Because they're constantly sprinting

They sprint for 90 minutes I mean they're just running around sprinting There's a couple outliers That do look up Adam Treyori I think it is I might be totally butchering But Rinaldo Ronaldo is pretty jacked

He's jacked He's like the hyper optimizer, too. He really is. I mean, that guy won't, remember there was a thing where they tried to give him a Coca-Cola and he fucking took it aside? He said, no, Agua. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Coca-Cola lost like a billion dollars in stock.

Whoa, look at that guy. Yeah. Yeah, that guy's a freak. Yeah, well, there's always going to be freaks out there. Yeah. But it's crazy to see a guy like that excel so well, too, out of a sport that you would think he'd kind of be like barely chugging alone. Well, that's probably because he's been doing it in his whole life, you know,

and he has unbelievable genetics. Yeah. Genetics are a nutty thing, man. You can't outrun genetics. But they don't always help. Like, look at Yard. Yard has perfect genetics, right? Yeah.

And then Benavides, you would look at him and you go, oh, that's not the best genetics. Like, if he was a bodybuilder, you'd like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, it's crazy, too, because sometimes you might just have, like, nice looking around muscle bellies, but you don't actually have, like,

mitochondrial density to support athletic endeavors. So you're kind of just, like, a show thing. You're just like a cosmetically pleasing athlete But not actually able to translate it into anything Yeah, that's weird I always thought that was weird I always thought that was weird and striking Because there's a lot of guys that are just built

Like fucking brick shithouses And then you'd see him hit the bag And be like, this is nuts Like you have zero power It's weird Yeah and it's like you would think objectively More muscle equals But sometimes they're like weak as shit

Even in lifts It's just like the development The hypertrophy they get from it It's just disproportionately better That's weird Can that be optimized, though? Like, if they have, like, unbelievable looking physiques, is it just that they're not doing as much because they don't need to to look great? I think there's definitely specific training for purposes that would be conducive to sport that maybe some might be neglecting for sure and ways to optimize for like, like, for example, you don't do hypertrophy work for bodybuilding because it's not conducive really to what you're trying to get.

And I think some people, they want the best of both worlds and they want. want to look the part and also perform. So they might be sapping bandwidth that could be allocated towards more optimal things that don't make them, you know, as cosmetically pleasing. Yeah. There's definitely things you can do from a support standpoint when it comes to, you know, nutrition, supplementation, et cetera. But like, you are ultimately going to be capped to some extent by genetic coding when it

comes to, like, density of certain receptors. And, like, you can upregulate it to whatever capacity you can. But, like, you can only push it so far. before you've kind of, you know, chapped out. It's interesting because, like, the really bulky guys, they just never have the same fluidity that the guys that are built like Benavides have or the punches flow and these effortless combinations,

a perfect technique. The really jack guys that look like they're destroyers. Flexibility is so much more limited, too, when you're like that, though. Oh, yeah. Unless you really work at it. Yeah. Really work out.

Yeah, and you have to have an intense. intentful approach to making sure you can maintain, you know, the flexibility that might otherwise just be innate to somebody who doesn't have to deal with a giant deltoid that like... Right, right, right. You know, uh, Jocko, you know, Jock, you know, I've hunted with him before. And Jock, like, a correct archery release. Correct archery release is you're supposed to get a surprise shot. So as a shot breaks, your arm kind of goes back like this.

Jocko is so jacked and he has such limited motion that he, His archie releases like this. Like, it doesn't, but he's doing it correctly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But his, it doesn't move the same way. It's all just chaco smash. You know, he's just, his body is designed to choke the shit out of you. Like, that's all it's for.

His body's designed to get a hold of you, take you to the ground, snap your fucking arm in half. That's what it's for. Yeah. It's just force and strength and, you know, and it's funny. I'm like, I'm like, does your arm not move that way? He's like, no, doesn't go back. I'm like, that's funny. because I'm watching him, watching his archery release.

It's perfect. But there's, you know, you watch like a Levi Morgan, a world champion pro archer. Like, as the shot breaks, their arm just goes back, like, naturally. Just like flows. His just goes, it just moves a little bit. When I was at my peak of bodybuilding size, I was in the middle of a job as a lifeguard and teaching swimming lessons to kids. And part of the teaching swimming lessons would involve showing how to do the different strokes

of back crawl, front crawl, breaststroke, all the different things. And when you're like a 265 pound bodybuilder, it gets pretty difficult because not only do you just sink harder because you're, you know, mostly muscle, but also like just even trying to get a straight arm past your head, it's impossible. So I actually had to stop teaching swimming. Your ears, your fucking shoulders are slamming into your ears. Like it would look like you couldn't even do what you were trying to teach like a fucking six-year-old or something.

Very few guys work on mobility. A great example of someone who does is Armand Sarukin. Armand Sarukin, who just wanted to beat Dan Hooker two weeks ago or a week ago. His mobility training is fucking super impressive. He is jacked. Have you seen Armand? Yeah, he's pretty. Shred it.

He's a guy that doesn't pass the smell test. There's a way to improve mobility, by the way. It's just a lot of bodybuilders like do not care. Right. And like there is some anatomical limitations ultimately. if there is muscles literally in the way, but I just want to put it out there, like, I'm sure I could have figured it out

if I cared at the time. Perhaps, but a 265 with your frame? Oh, yeah, I would have been limited by, like, the actual anatomy, but, like, I had no care for optimizing mobility or anything. I was just like, what's my max bench? Show a photo of Derek when he was jacked,

when he was super jacked, because there's some photos of him out there that you were preposterous. Yeah, yeah. Do you miss those days? You ever look at that physique? God damn, I look pretty fucking good. No.

I mean, I feel like I've come to peace a while ago with not looking like that anymore. It's a lot of upkeep, dude, to like... Yeah, look at you then. Is that your height? I think you were a little bigger than that at one point. Yeah, I think this is like a profile picture, so... Yeah, that was a more recent one. It was probably like how I lost 75 pounds in the bottom left is probably...

Yeah, right there. The fat... Maybe one of those, that shot probably is one of the bigger ones. Bro, you got big at one point in time. Was that how you were before you started lifting? Look at that old school Blackberry have. So that dates it just by the phone. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it was, I was like trying to be a competitive bodybuilder, and I just kind of realized that I could look good for, you know, like fitness industry, I guess, for kind of looking jacked for Instagram or whatever and like doing okay at like a regional level for, you know, a lower tier level of physiques. but like bodybuilding to take it to that next level. It was just like a level of stress.

I wouldn't be able to, one, be willing to sustain. And then two, it just wouldn't have been worth it because it was like I had tried pushing drugs and like I just wasn't responding to a level I knew I needed to to continue and justify using that much. Is it a genetic thing? Yeah. So it's like your androgen receptor content is a largely predetermined thing. There are some things you can do similar to mitochondrial density and things of that nature that you can do to upregulate and improve it and certain supplements you can use. But ultimately, your number of muscle fibers are going to be limited. Like there's going to be people who are just at baseline, you know, chihuahua looking humans that if you put them on gear, they just become bigger chihuahua humans, essentially.

But like they're never going to be, you know, they're never going to get, you know, Mr. Olympia caliber. And there's a certain, like, muscle belly that's more conducive to looking bigger and also being able to support certain body weights as even, like, a health thing, too. It's not just how well do you respond to drugs. It's also how long can you take them without dying, you know? So it's like some of the most highest performing and, like, excelling athletes are individuals who can tolerate this stuff and not go, you know, crazy from the some people mentally cannot handle these level of androgens. And they, you know, it wrecks their sleep, it wrecks their blood work, it wreck, they get really early cardiovascular disease. Psychologically, too, they go crazy. Yeah, yeah.

I've seen deaths in, you know, late 20s, mid-30s. There was a guy that was Vitor Belfort's trainer when Vitor first entered into the UFC. So Vitor, when he first fought in the UFC, weighed 200 pounds in his UFC debut when he fought Trey Telegman. That was UFC 12. And he was, like, a super athletic, fast. lethal black belt with vicious hands. And then when he fought Randy Gautour, he was 2.40. And his neck started at the top of his head.

He just looked like a lion. Yeah, it was a giant fucking trap. Yeah, it was just ridiculous. He was just ridiculous. And the guy who was working out with him, this guy, Curtis, wound up dying very young. And we used to call him garden hoses because his guy's veins were, he was so vascular. It was fucking ridiculous. We worked out next to him, like, bro, you got garden hoses for veins.

He was fucking insane. He was just insane. and he was so big, like so big, 300 plus, 510, 300 plus pounds, just fucking jacked. He was so big, and, you know, he had Vitor convinced that that was the way to go. Just fucking hit the gas, full speed. Yeah, I mean, at its peak, he was one of the sauciest dudes, right? At least, you know, he was like the perfect hybrid of athleticism meets, like, crazy-looking physique, I would say, at least at the time for what I can recall. Well, the TRT Vitor was Vitor, so Vitor on the gear when he was younger, and then no gear for a while, low period.

And then when they had TRT in the UFC where they allowed it when it was legal, which was a crazy few years. People call it the TRT Vitor years where Vitor was just dominating everybody. Yeah, it was terrified. Him and Overim are like poster child. Overim was the, that is the poster child. See if you can find a video of Armand Sorukian's mobility worker. Do you have it? Because he does really interesting stuff.

Oh, yeah? Yeah, like stuff I've never seen UFC athletes do. But I would think would be really conducive, especially to like scrambles in weird grappling positions where you want to have strength in like odd positions of your body where you're stretched out. And there's one on the side just showing. Oh, yeah, I can't imagine.

So this kind of stuff, like this kind of stuff. Yeah. Like, look at this. Like, look at all these things. So he's doing these kind of things all the time. Oh, yeah. Just to maintain that kind of flexibility along with all that mass and all that power that he has. Yeah, getting out of some of those awkward positions, like you've got to be able to get into weird spots comfortably.

Yeah, this is, look at that. Like, that's crazy. That's crazy rotation of his back. Yeah. He's got amazing mobility. But I do have to say, he also has back problems. And it might be one of the reasons why he does this. I mean, yeah, when you go exorcism on the fucking twister machine, I can imagine he probably end up with something.

I don't think that's what caused it. Honestly, I think it's probably grappling. He's a really elite grappler. There's a video of him grappling with Hamzot. And he keeps up with Hamzot. And they're two weight classes separated. And Hamzad is fucking fantastic. And, you know, they're scrambling.

And it's like a very competitive grapillar. Appling session. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, and circling back to some, like, you know, the sauce days and, like, the garden hose guy. I do think it's good that the education is out there, though, for people to be able to know how to not die from this stuff now. Whoa, that's Curtis.

Yeah. Yeah, that's him. Because back then, it would just be like... Go to that photo again in the upper left, that upper left photo? That's crazy. The guy was so vascular. Like, look at his bicep. Fucking bananas, right?

Look at that right biceat. And his chest. He's got fucking garden hoses on his chest. Yeah, full chocolate butt. Chocolate face, too. He had chocolate face. Or Melanotan, not the wazzi. Well, you know the guys that do it now where they keep their face white because they don't want to be called out for having a black face.

Have you seen that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny. Yeah, it is funny. Have you seen the, I think we looked at the Melanotan people on the first one? Yeah, Melanotanin, too, is a one of the, I don't know if it's an obscure one, but I guess maybe proportional to some of the. more widespread ones nowadays, but it's like a melanocortin receptor agonist, and actually an analog of it is used for women for hypoactive, like low sexual drive. So it actually enhances

sexual drive too. So there's like a component, there's a version of the drug that doesn't tan you that just like makes you hornyer that women are prescribed called violisi. And then men, there's no drug approved, but you could theoretically take it, but it gives you boners and also makes you tanned. If you take the melanot tan too. And, Huh. Yeah, so it's like for bodybuilders. And it also suppresses appetite as well. Whoa, it really does that?

That's cruel. Well, that's a weird, the lighting on that one. Is that weird Chris Bell? Yeah, it's right out of the Daily Mail, though, it seems like they might have an... No, no, no, dude, this is actually possible. I like how it says that, too. Yeah, you can literally manually become black with this drug. Didn't some lady take that?

She was on, like, one of them Sally Jesse Raphael shows. Yeah, and she claimed she was black. Yeah. yeah and she's like look at me what are you gonna tell me I'm not yeah she started talking like oh god yeah how wild yeah what if it did it to your hair too

it does because it's all pigment related so it does make your hair blacker as well it makes your facial hair darker what does it do is there something like that for guys that have gray hair uh yeah like it does it is this the late yeah this is the lady I forgot about this

look at her boobs too Oh, my God. That lady might be insane. Like, I'm guessing yes. And it's like, you almost wouldn't even think it's real if you weren't told by somebody that you actually can go that far. Like, it's literally you pick your dose and the exposure to the sun will dictate via the dosage, like, how dark you get. And you can go all the way. Interesting.

Yeah. Full chocolate body. Is there any side effects? Yeah, you get really nauseous. if you overdo it. It's actually a really potent appetite suppressor. So it's like one of the... Back in the day, you could find out my before and after.

Type in Milan on Tan 2, more plates, more dates. You'll see my before and after. The last time I used it. And did you use it for bodybuilding to try to? Yeah. Because I'm pale as shit. So like, for me, the thought of having a tan was pretty awesome. There's me with my CPAP mask on.

Watch it. Why should take it with a CPAP mask on? It was just like, I look kind of fucking trade it. I'll take a pick. That's funny. If you scroll down, you'll see my back before and after. If you keep going, there, right there. Oh, wow.

Yeah, that's like weeks apart. It does tan you. Yeah. Dude, you had fucking giant lats, man. That's nuts. Yeah. You could jump off a fucking cliff and fly like a squirrel. Yeah.

What a weird pose. You just stand there. Yeah. Well, bodybuilding is weird, period. Yeah. It is odd. It's just like the whole idea is not. not the function.

It's not performance. It's just looking giant. Yeah. It's like some of the exercises don't even translate the way you think they would too. Like you do a, you get really good at the bench press. And then you do something else that you think is like pushing related or like force production.

It's like, oh, I'm weak as shit here for some reason, even though you thought it would translate. But it's not like a, it's almost training neuronal patterns too more than even just like the muscle. And you get hypertrophy, but you're also kind of just like training yourself to get really good at specific movements in a way that has, like, no application to a lot of sports, typically.

Just to look jacked. There are more, like, functional choices, obviously, but, like, the ones most conducive to bodybuilding and not getting injured are oftentimes, like, you know, the typical kind of, like, beach body style things, but there are more intelligent choices for sure. It's not all of that, but. That's the thing, though, is, like, the guys who lift the heaviest and do it, that's a very odd thing like and then they wind up getting fucked like Ronnie Coleman wind up really getting fucked up from Ronnie was like famously one of the heaviest

lifters as a bodybuilder and for what it's worth I'm absolutely not like above this style of training like this is like what I still kind of do to be honest so it's like I do you know I'm still fan of bodybuilding I don't want to like speak poorly on it or anything and we oversee some of the best bodybuilders on the planet right now as well and make sure they can do it as safely as possible because it's still a dangerous sport and you know you got to take modern knowledge to not screw yourself up nowadays what do you ever tell a guy like you just don't have the genetics to ever do this at a professional level do you ever have to have that conversation with people like you're you're pushing the gear so hard and it's not responding like if i had a friend um i guess

maybe similar to your like heart to heart you had with a job about mama at the time when it was like not really worth continuing to expose danger-wise. Yeah. It's, you know, often a lot of these kind of situations happen in bodybuilding where it's like you have a close friend who's taking exorbitant amounts of drugs and you know it's just like killing him and you know that the, like, you're not going to make it to the Olympia. So really, like, what are we doing this for? Yeah.

You have better opportunities elsewhere. Like, I've had that conversation a couple times. But in general, it's kind of like you kind of have to have the self-awareness to know. And I think fortunately, that's part of where the education comes in is back in the day you wouldn't know that you had the bad genetics. You just think everyone's taking more shit than you because you wouldn't really, you thought there was a secret that you didn't know. There was some special drug that they sourced from Europe that you're not getting. Right. You know, they have the secret, you know, fill in the blank thing that the guru at the Olympia level who's coaching all the top bodybuilders has and you just need to get to the next level and get your IFBPB pro card and then maybe I'll get to work with that guru.

and then he'll give me access to that drug and then I can take it to the next level and then before you know it, a lot of these guys are still grinding for really like low level shows or like to place poorly even at like the entry level of professional and their health is a wreck

and they're not really gonna make it to where they think maybe they're on the path to and so I don't know I think the more you know transparent look into it has made a lot of people more self-aware to check themselves. And also to know if they're even, you have to respond well from a health standpoint too is not just how good do I look in the mirror. If you have wrecked blood work or you have

a abnormal anatomical structure of your heart before you start subjecting yourself to hormones, these are things that are all checkable now proactively. And you could tell beforehand if you're a good candidate, not just from a muscular response standpoint, but also from a health tolerant standpoint. I wonder what if any, what factor genetic engineering is going to play into bodybuilding? Myostatin inhibition. Yeah. There is gene therapies that are being utilized now. They're just not that efficacious.

Is myostatin inhibitors? Are they, are people using them now? Pharmaceutical pipelines are trying to integrate them in order to offset muscle catabolism induced via gLP1 agonists, like semagglutes. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so it's kind of a unique time because not only do we have really aggressive fat loss agents that actually work now that are not simply stimming your brain to, you know, to high hell, which a lot of the previous drugs worked like that. Now it's like we have these effective things, but they make you eat so little that we now the next thing is there's all this attention on how to lose healthy weight and not, you know, a bunch of muscle weight because there's more education around. the importance of losing, you know, fat and not muscle, which is metabolically active tissue,

health supporting, whereas if you just end up skinny fat, you might be no better off than when you started depending on the person. So some of the more refined currently being developed drugs are like these fat loss appetite suppressing agents with concurrent like thermogenic properties for energy expenditure and then muscle preservation mechanisms built in. and that inhibit myostatin or act through other pathways to try and keep the muscle on you. Yeah, Brigham from Waste to Well was explaining that they're using, some people, rather, are using GLP-1s in conjunction with IGF, and they're combining a bunch of different things to offset the bone density and muscle loss. And then also encouraging weightlifting while they're doing it, because a lot of people are just taking them and then just shriveling.

Because, look, if you starve yourself, you will lose weight, but you're going to lose bone density, you're going to lose tissue, You're going to lose everything. Yeah, that's like one of the most important components of the usage of them is, especially with, you know, women who might be otherwise not even integrating it into their regular life, they just end up eating less of what is already a nutrient poor or protein poor diet and aren't strength training as much as, I guess, proportionally to men. It's becoming more prevalent among women, obviously, which is great. But like the bone loss and muscle loss is significant among anybody who is.

depriving themselves of nutrients like that and then heart tissue too yeah like i mean everything you know you're basically self-inducing malnutrition i just can you just diet i mean is it is it's really a discipline thing with what not with people that are severely obese like i'm in favor of g lp1s for people like if you're 500 pounds which but but i do have to say jelly roll did it on the Natch. He did it on the Natch. He did not take GLP ones. He's not taking nothing, man. That guy is just working out every day, and he just cut all the bullshit out of his life. He got rid of his phone. He didn't have a phone for, he has one now, but he didn't have a phone for the fucking longest time. Even his fucking, when you text him, his, you know, the little image that

shows up when you go to phone, it's a phone with a fucking red line through it. Yeah. What does that mean? Like, he was just not interested in phones, man. He decided not to have a phone for a long time. Because he realized it was negative for his mental health and he wanted to lose a bunch of weight. But he did it naturally. He really did. He did it just through hard work and discipline and just, you know, have you seen the images of him now? No. Bro.

There's him on stage with Alexander Volcanovsky and he doesn't even look at the same guy. He's lost 200 plus pounds. Oh, nice. He looks fucking great. I mean, it's amazing. One of the things that's tough when it comes to like the assertation that it's more a will power thing than anything in many cases i do think it is there are a lot of people with unhealthy behaviors and psychological like tendencies to just be you know it's easier to be lazy than not and just

you know it's also the food addiction because you have to eat but there are some people who just if you ultimately have a genetically higher baseline a perpetual level of appetite signaling it's kind of hard to tell that person like just fucking you know wrench it out bro like you you got this and it's like I know a lot of people in the fitness industry especially look at how much where he's lost is incredible yeah that's great he looks fucking great it's really amazing

no especially impressive for individuals who are that obese to make that big of a change it's like it's the hardest to make that first step and get that big of a weight cut yeah and then it's momentum after that I watched an incredible video yesterday one of the most motivational videos I've ever seen

I'll send it to you Jamie it's this kid and this guy is is he's out of shape. He's got high body fat. And the video is him saying that he wants to work out like David Goggins for 100 days. He doesn't work out at all. And he goes from, I'll send it to you, Jimmy. He goes from being this guy who's like completely out of shape to at the end of the video, he does a fucking Iron Man.

You found it? Yeah. So this is the guy. So in the beginning In the beginning he's like Kind of fat and like that's what he looks like And you know he's like Motivated by Goggins

So the first day he runs He gets up at 5.30 in the morning And he runs 13 miles the first day I mean he's never he doesn't run at all He doesn't work out at all he eats junk food And he's running He's running past McDonald's and shit He's all fat

By the end of it he's doing an ultra Well he does an ultramarathon halfway into it And then by the end of it, he does an Iron Man. And now he regularly runs 100-mile races. He got down to 140 pounds. He's shredded now. It's really, really impressive. That's awesome.

Because it's just all dissonant. Look at the difference. 145, 9% body fat. He started out of 184, 27% body fat. And look, he's all lean now and healthy, and he's running 100-mile races now. It's really amazing. Because he just did it with sheer willpower. and documented the whole thing.

He's in agony. His ankle's all fucked up from running, so he swims and he swims in the pool, and then he decides to swim with weights on. He really becomes obsessed. Have you seen the guy who fasted for a year straight? Yes. That's an old story, right? Yeah.

But I think that's still the record for, like, longest period of not eating and just, like, adhering to a diet. And he got vitamin IVs. And the guy who did that, what's interesting is he also lost. skin. So his skin shrank along with his body which I thought was fascinating. Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that

to some extent there's some elasticity depending on how long you've been fat and also like, I don't know, maybe just the tissue itself. There is some level of 382 days. I'm sure your body's fiending for energy from anywhere I can find it if there's some way to, I don't know.

But I think the interesting thing is he didn't come around, come out of it looking like a lot of these people do where they have to get all their skin removed. Oh, I mean, I feel like there's got to be loose skin to some extent. Does you have a shirtless? I don't know. I don't know if there's a shirtless, but that was part of the narrative. His skin actually shrank along with his body because he wasn't eating at all. I want to see that. Does that make sense? Does that make sense to you? I mean, I was trying to play along for a sec, but now I'm like, if there's not a pick, I don't know, dude. Well, it's also,

it's 1960, whatever it was. Sounds like an interesting tale that might have passed for the grapevine. wouldn't recommend that though no that sounds crazy and then once you start eating again how do you just keep the fucking floodgates from yeah i mean that's the interesting thing is some people psychologically it's easier to adhere to something when they're full bore and then like i know a lot of people who they'll do commit to a competition because they know i'm accountable to step on stage and i don't want to look like shit when i'm on stage and they do it they get a bunch of photos done and then after they go off the rails and they're like right back to where they started within You know, a month or two.

That happens to a lot of fighters. They get done with fighting and then they get really fat. It's really common. It's really common because they also develop real eating disorders because you're cutting weight all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for some of them, it's like you're basically like doing bodybuilder shit, essentially. Well, Patty Pimbley's the best example of a current active fighter.

Oh, that guy's crazy, dude. He gets so big. Dude, his moon face is like the best in the league probably. So here it says 3, 382 days from June 14th, 1965 through June 30th of 1966, he consumed only vitamins, electrolytes, an unspecified amount of yeast, a source of essential amino acids, and zero-calorie beverages such as tea, coffee, and sparkling water, although he occasionally added milk and or sugar to the beverages, especially during the final weeks of the fast. Barbieri began his treatment in the hospital, but for most of the 382 days, he lived at home. Okay, it says stool samples were not taken, but he reportedly went up to 48 days between stools. Wow. Which sounds crazy, but it's like, what's they're going to...

Yeah, what will be coming out. His starting weight was 456, and the fast officially stopped July 16, 1996. He reached his goal weight of 180 pounds. Wow. Yeah, that's nuts. The next 10 days, doctors placed him on a diet of salt and then sugar in preparation for solid food. The sum sources record the fast being 392 days instead of 382. Wow.

Now, one of the things that's tough is it's like, even though maybe that case study exists, and there's people who just brute force willpower their way through it, some of those people otherwise might have genetically been able to tolerate, you know, the hunger signaling better than somebody else, who literally cannot focus on work or anything when they're that hungry. And it almost sometimes doesn't even come down to the diet quality, as much as somebody might tell them, yeah, it does. It does to some extent, but, and it's certainly getting rid of the shitty processed foods

and getting on a good exercise regimen and doing all the things to set yourself up in the best position will probably take care of most people, but there are some individuals who just, like, at baseline, even on the inverse side, I know a lot of people who simply aren't hungry and they have to force feed themselves to gain muscle because they're just perpetually shredded. And they have, like, the opposite problem because they're hungry, signaling is so low. So it's like, people look at them as an example in the fitness industry of like, oh, this guy is the best discipline. He's like so shredded all the time. And in reality, that guy's like, I hate food. That's so weird. There's one guy in particular. His name's a

David Laid. And he's like, I don't know, like a teenage, well, he's like in his 20s now, but teenagers look up to him as kind of like a fitness industry icon of aesthetics. And he's perpetually had a shredded six-pack. He's pretty jacked. He's tall. He's handsome. And he's literally says on camera I hate eating and he's like serious about it he's like I can't stand having to eat meals what? Yeah oh my god

like it's not even just like to be a bodybuilder like he's just like I don't know what is he eating how is that possible good high quality food that's a picture I can find I can't tell you can't tell it looks yeah it looks like he's got some fat there yeah it looks like he's got a bunch of extra skin there I mean it's just like how could he not yeah

Yeah, how can he not? Find a picture of that other guy. Who's the guy that they call the most shredded guy alive? Oh, helmet shrub. Yes, that guy. That guy is crazy. Yeah, find that guy. That's ridiculous.

Yeah. It's a H-E-L-M-U-T. It's been a while since I've looked at this guy. And then S-T-R-E-B-L. And did they come out? Helmet shredded is coming up, that guy? Helmet Shreble. Is this him?

Yeah. Oh, Jesus. That is insane. Yeah. I mean, that guy's physique is the man with zero percent body fat. That's hilarious. That's not possible, folks. You want to see even more shredded?

Is that really possible that he's got more shredder than that? Yeah, type in on Andreas Munzer. Oh, I've seen that guy. But what is this guy's body fat? It's not zero. Zero is not possible. What is that? Six?

five or six maybe no that would be like stage super stage ready beyond most bodybuilders even after the best of the best in terms of conditioning so i don't know maybe like six seven it's kind of tough though dude because it's like some of these guys they have like oh jesus christ go back to that picture that's nuts that's like aggressive filtering and sharpening to look whatever whatever it is that's his real body that's a insane. Yeah. Even, I mean, it's obviously, like, the best possible lighting for that effect. There's distribution of fat and water that some people. It just looks more shredded than another person who might otherwise store any excess fat on, like, their ass or, like, their love handles or, like, whatever. For a guy like that, not only is he diced, and, like, obviously he's just diced,

but he has, like, a dry look to the skin that enhances the kind of perceived leanness. and it's like I forgot what it is it's not dick skin lean I forgot what the I forget what the terminology is but it's like it's like white guy something

and it's just like if you're certain white physiques are known to look more like you're almost so pale and dry that it like enhances the perceived leanness if that makes like any sense whatsoever that's the weirdest thing about bodybuilding right

you have to be super dehydrated to look great and you're almost dead Yeah, yeah, and then you have to, you know, go chocolate body and stuff But those guys, they're, they're like, they black out sometimes backstage, don't they? Yeah, and... Whoa! Yeah, that's crazy. Which guy's that?

That's helmet. That's him? 4% body fat. I might be totally butchering his name, by the way, so if I'm, I hope... Bro. Helmet, I hope I'm saying it right. I would never wear a shirt. Why would I wear a shirt?

But it's like, you would not... He's 47? Wow. In this article, too, which is probably like five to ten years old. What does he look like now? I wonder if he keeps it up, because, I mean, I would be so hungry. Yeah. Unless you're on a GLP-1.

Oh, this is him. This is him now. Wow. That's crazy. No, that's not. That's got to be other. It's not. Oh, somebody else put it up there.

I don't think he has an IG. It doesn't seem like. That's one of the weird things. I mean, you're such an OG of the industry that you just have like weird residual fan pages and you don't even know if it's the guy or not. What's that old guy? He was bald, the old days. He had, like, the hair on the side.

Scooby. Was that what's name? I don't know. Maybe. White guy. He was, like, famous shredded guy back in the early days of bodybuilding. He was not big. He was thin, but he was, like, super fucking ripped.

God, I can't remember his name. Was he? But he had, like, the hair on the side. Like, weird, like old man bald. You know, didn't have a full-saved head. Old man bald. Yeah, he looked like. Like when people went bald in the 50s,

and they didn't shave the side of their head? Yeah. Fuck. I'm sure if I saw it, I haven't know if you're talking. He was famous for teaching. You got him? I feel like you haven't. What's his name?

I don't get a name yet, but is it's him? No, no, that's not him. It's older. It's from a long time ago. Who's the, what's your preferred AI search tool? Use that and type in what you just said. Yeah, put that into perplexity. Old man bald, OG fitness influencer.

You have to give me a better. Or there's like a time period. Like 90s? Oh, yeah, 90s. Yeah, 90s. Oh, God. His name is at the tip of my tongue. Oh, this is driving me crazy.

Super shredded? Yeah. He would teach people how to be shredded. He had like this protocol for how to lose weight. But his whole thing was being shredded. It wasn't that big. I mean, you know, fit, but not like, you know, bodybuilder jacked. And he was Caucasian?

Yes. Wow. Yeah. It's telling me Billy Blanks. No, no, no, no, no, no, white guy. Fuck. I was going to say Athleen X, but there's no way that's who you're talking about. No, no, no, no.

She's got a great hair. It's a long time ago. No, Athene X has got wonderful hair. It's... Speaking of hair, there's that new thing that is the study out of UCLA, where they're going to be able to grow hair back. Yeah. Isn't that wild? You don't believe it or...

No, dude, it's like every week, it's some new thing. like rodent re-grew hair after being shaved bald using UCLA mediated broccoli extract or whatever that fuck. And it's like now every Reddit scientist is dumping fucking broccoli juice on their head or whatever. It's just like never really pans out ultimately. And it's pretty shocking.

I think I even mentioned this at one point that we have all these refined AI tools and drugs and some of the most developed and refined nearly side effect free drugs for some things that are pretty significant you know roots of disease but like hair loss like no one has a clue right how to fix it with or dick size hair loss and dick size two big ones we know to max out your genetic capacity for dick size though well the nuttiest thing that i've been paying attention lately is so many guys that are

getting their legs broken to get taller i got an update on that guy if you wanted to see oh the saskatch guy yeah how's he doing well uh i mean he's walking but it's like not perfect but it's been a few years right Yeah, but he's also like the most extreme edge case example of, it's almost if it was unfair to you see guys, a reference point, it's like this is the heaviest, tallest example. So it's like if anyone's going out. Because he was six feet when he started and he got to six, six, six, and he was not walking like a year later. Yeah, so he's, he's, he said, let's see, I could send this to you if you wanted to put it up on the screen where I could just show you here. Yeah, just text it to me. What is he, is he okay?

I mean, he got sued by the company that did his surgery. He got sued? Yeah. Why did he get sued? Because he was talking about all like the mishaps that happened when he got, because it's kind of like there are good clinics and bad clinics in terms of quality. And he kind of was, I guess, too forthcoming about like I did a podcast with him and they didn't like it. They're suing him.

Yeah. Literally. Well, they did sue him, yeah. How can you sue someone for telling the truth about a procedure that didn't work out so great? I mean, great question. That's what I said. How could you win? Maybe you could sue someone for a lot of things.

Maybe it's just, like, bury them in fees or something. I don't know. Yeah, probably. All right, check. See if this came through. Hopefully my LTE is good. Nope, not yet. You can air drop it to my computer if it pops up.

Okay. Yeah, there you go. so he's still fucked yeah one sec god damn man yeah it's uh i was watching this guy uh yesterday on instagram this uh fairly thin kid he wasn't wasn't big but he he gained five inches you know he was like five five five ten and he's real happy with it but i was like

Jesus Christ. And a year later, again, in crutches. One year later. It took him a year and a half before he could walk normally. I mean, some people, that's still worth it to not have to, yeah. I guess, yeah. I mean, if you're five feet tall and then all of a sudden you're 5-7, I guess. Here, see if it, did it come through for you?

Yeah, yeah, I was trying to figure out what to play. I erudraft it for you. Oh, you got it on the screen. Nice. Okay. So, so this is 2023. Oh, wow, he did it way back then? Yeah, it's been almost like.

Look how skinny his legs are. That's crazy how skinny his legs were. To have that much mass up top, that's crazy. Yeah. That's probably the problem, right? Well, it definitely is, like I said, the most extreme of circumstances to impose for what was seemingly a poor quality clinic. And then also trying to go from a height that's objectively tall to a height that's objectively extremely tall with the most heavy guy that's probably ever done the procedure. you would think.

Yeah. Well, he's 300 pounds. Wait, I think he was way more than that. You would say, like, hey, man, if you're going to do this, lose upper body weight and then gain it back. So you can give your legs a chance to grow. Oh, my God, that's so crazy. It just makes me freak out because I'm getting anxiety.

They're just going to snap and he's going to fall over. Yeah, there definitely is something a little bit unnatural, but watching even like the strikes on the ground. Yeah, it makes you feel like something's just going to like. Snap. Yeah. But to his credit, I mean, like, they. The guy literally couldn't even walk before, and he's optimistic about it still,

and he thinks he's going to make a full recovery. There is now November 2025, so that's two years later. Two years later, he can walk. What if he has to run from a fire? You know what I mean? Yeah, he's fucked. For sure. Yeah.

Well, also the mechanics. Like, your body's used to moving legs that are six inches shorter, and now, like, the knee has different pressure, and, you know, it's got to be really fucking strange. He said, uh, let's see, bones are mostly. healed just have a lot of weakness as legs strengthen the pain decreases and the spasms also he's got to be on the sauce too right yeah yeah so even that's not helping uh i mean if anything it would be it would help in some of the recovery for bone but it would also keep him yoked and like more pressure on that too so like maybe it's uh yeah it's a bit of a double-edged sword there

He says, major hurdles cleared, infection, knee tendonopathy will probably walk normal. Within a couple months, I can hop, but will need to strengthen much more in order to really jump, jog, and run. Applying to have a U.S. doctor fully fix any remaining issues, but for now, legs are good. Where did he get his surgery done? It was, I did a podcast with them last year, and I think it was Thailand Clinic where it's like a turn. He did a bargain. He got a bargain. Did he do a Groupon?

It definitely wasn't the best choice. This guy got it? He's nine years post-surgery. Nine, they were doing this nine years ago? So this guy, as far as I know, he is a bit of a unique case in that he was actually correcting an asymmetry. So he had, I'm almost positive. I don't want to misspeak. I'm sure he'll correct it if he sees this.

But I'm pretty sure he had one leg was like unusually asymmetrically shorter than the other one. And then he was kind of evening it out to what would otherwise be his. you know, like genetic symmetrical match. Oh, interesting. So there's different applications to which people do this, and it's not always just like pure vanity. I want to get, you know, really tall. It's sometimes, like, to correct a functional, like, asymmetry.

It's just, you know, a lot of people you hear about the cases of, I want to get really tall for superficial reasons kind of thing. It's just a matter of time before they're just genetically engineering everybody to look like Thor, you know? This is a matter of time. I think there's a lot of people that don't want this to work, though, too, because it's like, if it's almost too easy or, like, you know, doable, it's just like some people, I say a lot of people

unreasonably shit on these people, and it's just like, you know, just take the content for what it is, you know? Yeah, no, that's true. But I'm saying about what the genetic engineering, there's a lot of people that are going to not want that to work either, but tough shit. You're not going to hold back science because you don't like the fact that especially if someone has

poor genetics and they just look gross and their whole life they've looked gross and then all of a sudden something comes along and you're a fucking supermodel and you're six foot six and like Mike it's you what did the fuck happened I went to this clinic and turkey

and look what they did yeah that was like you were asking about what did you talk about this before bone smashing what I just saw a video about this and then thought it was fake but this seems like a place to find out if it's real yeah so people are like

They're like Yeah Whatever they can do I'm pretty sure this is not like It's like a click baity thing Among the people that do this stuff Wait a minute, wait a minute He's hitting himself with a fucking hammer

So a kid was just using like a trophy Just banging his face all day He's like I've been doing this for years So they like think that they can Induce acute like bone remodeling In the area to kind of like Enhance like I don't know Zygoma Development or what have you

and get better, you know, whatever asymmetry or deficiency they deemed to have cosmetically corrected. And some of them, they're just punching their face essentially before they go out at nighttime to get like a temporary pump in their cheeks. So, like, think about back in the day when you went to the club and you're like, I want to push-ups first. Yeah. Oh, my God.

So it's like you're laughing and they're probably like, bro, it's the same thing. You're fucking punching your cheekbones to get them stick out more. Oh, God, it's so dumb. There's so much out there, man. Listen, man, this is great. Congratulations on this. So for everybody that wants to buy it, guerrilla mine, I've been drinking it for two hours now,

three almost. It's great. Works. I feel like I haven't had a cup of coffee in the entire podcast. That's unusual for me. But it tastes good, too. How many flavors you got?

A lot, man. 15 plus. 15? We've got to narrow it down to the best ones, though, to really dial in the catalog. If somebody wants to buy this, order it, where's it at? GuerrillaMind.com. We're in G&C's vitamin shops across the country.

We're going to be in Circle K soon and soon to be more spots, hopefully. Congratulations on that. And for everything else that you do, Gorillamind.com. Yeah, yeah. And MerrickHealth.com, if you want to get preventative medicine, expert oversight when it comes to diagnostics, optimization, et cetera. All right, brother. Well, it's always good to hang out with you. Very fun.

Thanks for having me, man. My pleasure. my pleasure and again congratulations this is legit i'm going to buy it all right bye everybody see you