The Joe Rogan Experience - #2435 - Bradley Cooper

Episode Date: January 9, 2026

Bradley Cooper is an Academy Award-nominated actor, writer, producer, and director. His film credits include “American Sniper,” “A Star Is Born,” and “The Hangover.” His latest film, “Is This Thing On?,” which he directed and co-stars in, is now in theaters.https://www.searchlightpictures.com/is-this-thing-on Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Pass-thru of per wager tax may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. Must register new account to receive reward Token. Must select Token BEFORE placing min. $5 bet to receive $300 in Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Min. -500 odds req. Token and Bonus Bets are single-use and non-withdrawable. Token expires 2/1/26. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 1/25/26 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Joe Rogan podcast, checking out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Bradley Cooper. What's happening, baby? You know what it's like when a Twilight Zone episode or something? We're like you're watching the TV. This is an episode where I'm watching the TV.

And then all of a sudden you're inside the show. And you're looking at me. Yeah, and all of a sudden I'm inside the show. It's crazy. It's weird for me too. It's weird for me that it gets weird for other people too. Like when I see people. of course.

Being weird about it. I'm like, it's okay. I feel comfortable, just saying that. Oh, good. You look comfortable. Yeah, no, no, no. But it's excitement. It's weird for me.

Like, I was trying to explain this to someone. They'll, like, do people have a hard time being comfortable in the show? I go, I kind of do, too. It's fucking weird. Yeah. It's weird that that many people are watching. Yes. And then you start thinking like, oh, don't fuck it up.

Don't say that. Right. But if you think about it, the fact that you did this long form setup and that we live in a culture where people taught least say that every it's all about short term yeah it goes against it the people are interested yeah well the short term stuff does work you know like short attention span stuff is very popular even with me like but i have been resisting it more and more lately i'm like like a fucking heroin addict like slowly weaning myself off the drug and the more i wean myself the better i feel like physically better.

My brain works better. I feel more relaxed. I don't feel like this kind of like Sugar Shaw and O'Malley, the USC fighter, he said, even when I'm just scrolling, even if it's not anything about me, he goes, there's just like a low level anxiety that I get. I'm like, yeah, yeah, because like you know you're wasting your time chasing a fix that you're never going to get. And you're just like getting these short drips of like, oh, look at that. Oh, look at that. Oh, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. But that's not what people really want.

What people really want is something engaging. Something you go, wow, that's a great documentary, like, which are still super popular. Like, a great documentary, they're still, you know, like huge on Netflix and huge on YouTube. And Oppenheimer was like three hours long. Right, exactly. And, you know, made a billion dollars. So people went. Humans didn't change.

It's just you can hijack their reward system by giving them some short attention span nonsense. and it just like tricks their slow drip dopamine into like continuing to watch this stupid shit. But that's not what they want. No. You know, it's not what I want. No. It's a difference between like, yeah,

just a little drip of something that has the illusion that I'm getting what I want as opposed to what I actually need. Yes. Which is sort of a reminder that I exist. Yes. Yes. And that I'm communicating with somebody

and I can relate to it. Yes. Which is a different thing. And I only know it's because I've never been on social media, but sometimes, there was one time I got on, somehow got on TikTok and it was all police footage. You know, like, and I was just, I remember laying on my couch, 40 minutes went by, and I was just doing this.

And there was like the first part of the video. And then what happened? And then like the second part, part two. And that was the only time I experienced, I thought, I got to stay away from this, because I won't leave the house. Yeah, it's bad. It's bad for you, too, because it programs you to think that that is going on everywhere in the world.

Like, if you have eight billion people. that are interacting with people all over the world, and you only take the worst examples of that and broadcast it, and then it becomes viral and millions and millions of people think, it rewires your way you think about human beings. But the, and the other thing is about memory. Someone was talking about Niagara Falls the other day,

and I thought, I've been there, right? And I'm like, have I been there? Or did I see a video? Right. Or was that one of the things when I put the oculus, on. Right, right, right.

Honestly, I can't remember, but I know what it feels like to be looking at it. Oh, yeah. So it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, like, it's, amount of people that you can keep in your head, like, because we evolved in these tribal scenarios. We evolved with, like, 150 people. And so the way Dunbar calculated it, there's, like, very close, intimate, close circle people, which is a small amount.

And then immediately after that, there's a slightly larger amount. And then it gets up to, what was it? It gets up to, like, 1,000 people? 1,500 people? That's the most amount of people you can keep in your head. So it's, like, five people that, like, your tightest of tight. And then 15, like slightly outside of that. And it gets all the way up to about 1,500 people, recognizable people.

But I would think I'd be able to, that you could keep in your head. Yeah. But I'm way past 1,500 people. So I'm fucked. Right. Like, I am like, there's people that I know really well. And then I see them and I'm like, I don't remember his name. 1,500 sounds like.

And it seems bad. Like, I'm like, why can I remember his fucking name? I can't remember his name. I'm horrible with names. But it's just because. my hard drive sucks. It's like I don't have enough room. Right. It's like, you know, when you, the old iPhones, it's like, you've run out of, you know, Mac space. Like, oh, geez, I got to start deleting photos and videos. Now, do you get anxiety with that or do you sort of breathe through and say, well,

it's just the way it is. I kind of just deal with it. Yeah, me too. But my memory itself is, like, very good and also very bad at the same time. Yeah, me too. I have a serious problem remembering people's names. Well, you think about how many people can meet. Like, as I was saying, I was like and I've watched it so many times I was like Jamie right that's Jamie like like as you were saying I'm like let me say who can't I'm right do I remember any of the guys I just met I just met them shook their hand look them in there they say their names and it just goes in and out yeah and some people get upset what's my name I know I don't fucking know oh you don't remember me you know I'm like we you don't remember what's my name and you're like

well that's why in Hollywood people love to say good to see you instead of nice to meet you like bitch you met me two years ago like I don't remember Remember. Yeah, Leonard Bernstein had a great thing that he would always be about. I loved you in the last thing you did. That's funny. That's funny. Speaking of which, I watched your movie.

Is this thing on? And it's good. It's really good, man. Oh, thanks, man. It's one of the best representations of someone attempting to do stand-up. It's a really good film. And, you know, but it's not really just about stand-up. It's about these people with these.

It's about, they're actual human beings. Like these are complicated, real, like, not caricature-ish, not cartoonish people. Like, I get that these are real people. Right, good. Complicated, real people that are trying to figure out their relationships. Good. In the context of this one guy, Will Arnett, is tempted to do stand-up. Right.

So it was great. I'm glad you say that. So you, because, you know, I moved to New York in 97. and then that was my introduction to any comedy world. Other than with my dad, I used to watch Ronnie Dangerfield's, you know, New Year's Eve special. We used to watch it every year, you know, and it was Elaine Boozler and Sam Kinnison and Dice and, you know.

Elaine Boozler, I forgot it on there. I'm pretty sure she was on there, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was obsessed with Dice when I was like in eighth grade. I memorized one of his records and I would do it in the train station with all my friends. Because back then that's all you did, right? you would memorize stuff. Oh, yeah, me too.

There was no video to look at. You know, you wouldn't all sit around. You would just memorize and then, you know, regale your friends with your impersonation of him. And then Richard Pryor was my hero. Hero growing up. That was my idol. So I had this thing with stand-up comedy,

and then I moved to New York, and I'm all of a sudden immersed with these clubs and upright Citizens Brigade had just starred. And I did this movie, What Hot American Summer? And there was all these people. I didn't even know about the state. Remember that show on MTV? There was a song.

Uh-huh. Yeah, all this. And so I just, you know, little by little immersed myself into that world and I just became fascinated with the culture and then Zach Alfenakis who I met like in 2001 way before hangover I used to go and watch him do stuff and I just love the culture and when Will was telling me about this I was like oh let's set it in New York and the cellar because I just love the the geography of the cellar too that you go in the olive tree and you walk down into this place this whole other world and and it just felt like yeah

I really went like can I can we pull this off where it's authentic where you were watching it at home and you get a sense of the fact that you're saying that you know you feel like it got it you know within the striking distance makes me really happy this episode is brought to you by square space square space makes building and managing your website ridiculously easy they give you everything you need to showcase what you do and get paid all in one place and with cutting edge design tools anyone can create a custom site that truly fits their brand head to square spore base.com slash rogan for a free trial.

And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code Rogan to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Yeah, it's striking distance. It's like one of the only films. They're like, Punchline was an interesting film, the Tom Hanks, Sally Fields. Yeah, yeah, of course. But it was bullshit. Like you watch it like, where they got lockers? Look, what the fuck is this?

Like, and also the comedy wasn't good. It wasn't real comedy. It was like it felt flat and flaxie. and people were laughing at nothing. The Will stuff felt real. Yeah. It felt real, you know? Like, the clubs felt, like, a guy trying to work out what it's like to be on stage

and open mic. And then the fact you got Jordan Jensen and who I love. Yeah, of course. She was fucking great. I texted her afterwards. I'm like, isn't she great in the movie? She's great. Yeah.

She's so natural. And I was like, oh, wait a second. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, and the first thing I had shot where there was one of her sets, and I was just up there with the camera and I came around. and her profile. And actually, I felt like I was in the Starsborn.

She looked a lot like Gaga and Allie, like singing shallow. Oh, wow. And I had like this weird moment. I was like, whoa. And then she was just incredible. And then as it went on, she had a larger part in the movie. And then that whole thing, when they're talking about the small penis and we go up to her and just her writing that down. And she was just so fluid.

And I was like, oh, yeah, she's got it, man. She's got it. She's great. She's a really great. She's a really unique person. Like a very unusual person. Like even just talking. You know her own podcast.

We grew up on a farm with two moms. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. She could do anything. I know. And she's so fun.

She's fun on stage, too. Like, she's great. Very smart. Very smart. Very smart. But, like, her character, like, the way she interact, I'm like, oh, that's so realistic. Like, we should fuck. Like that can't see.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And then you go back to the, like, East Village or Chinatown apartment. You know, they live in one room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I believe it. Yeah. Yeah. It was great. It's like, you know, you're never going to. really capture stand-up in a movie because it's like to capture what it is you would need like years and also you would need a movie dedicated to it exactly the movie's not dedicated to it exactly you know what I mean it was just about can I can I make you feel like you're there watch that you're with

him on stage yes that what that could be like yeah you know the the silence and then the cameras boom there's nowhere to go how did you work out the stand-up scenes did you have real audiences and It was never real audiences because you have to hit the quota of extras with SAG and all that. But we try to do it as authentic as possible, which was everybody that works at the seller, they're there in the movie, everybody who agreed to do it. So all the waiters and everything, the staff, that's all people that work there. Liz, who's the manager, who plays the manager, she's the manager of the seller. So all those people are real. But then the patrons, I can't remember what the email was or what the ask was,

like people who like to go to stand-up comedy who go regularly and then once they were there I never told them what was going to happen I never directed them once it was like whatever the they're laughing at that's it and I don't do many takes so you're getting an authentic reaction

now it's hyped up because there's cameras there and it's a movie but they're not told what to do it feels like that and so and even in the mix like we never added anything there was no added laugh nothing oh that's great yeah yeah it's all because I was like it's got to be real because I wanted Will to just you know, I just don't want him to act. Right, right, right, right.

And that's why, you know, Shane Gillis was kind of. The first time he went up was here at the mothership. Shane gave him four minutes of his set. And he and I, and Will and I flew to Austin and were sitting in the green room. And Shane was like an hour and a half late. And Tony was there. And he was so nice. I'd never met Tony before.

And that's where I smelled the thing. You know, I did the smell. Oh, I was like, yeah. That shit is no joke. Yeah. And that was the first time Will ever went up. And we was just trying some of that material and went up as Alex Novak. Because I was like, when do you have an opportunity as an actor to actually do the thing you're preparing to do?

Right. And like, think about how much that would cost. Like you can go into a room with there's real people. Right. It's all. And then every step that you're taking, you're in a club. So he did that. And then when we went back to New York, he did like three times a week, four or five times a night for like six weeks.

Wow. Just so he could understand what it's like. And some people didn't know who he was. You know, you get a lot of tourist. meant to New York City. And there were nights where you knew that he, when he said Alex Novak, they're like, cool. Right. Not like you're not Alex Novak.

Right. You know, they're like, okay, let's see what you got. And so that was really, that was really great. How did you, who wrote this film? He wrote it with this guy, Mark Chappell. It was a movie that was more about his, based on this guy, John Bishop, who's a real comedian, is a very successful comedian in the UK. and he will met that guy on a barge somewhere

and he was talking about his story and he was like, yeah, I was doing something else. My wife and I were breaking up and I walked into a bar, a pub one night, I didn't want to pay the cover. That really happened to this guy. So he put his name down and then they called him. And then he was like, yeah, I'm getting a divorce

and got a couple chuckles, but he just loved it. Never done comedy, nothing before that. And he kept going back and he, like, was obsessed by it. And then, like, weeks later, his wife, a strange wife walked into a place he was doing an open mic at with her girlfriends, and he was doing a set about their relationship. So that actually happened. Wow.

I know. And then they got back together and they're still together. And then now he, like, he tours around the world. Like, he makes a living as a comedian. That's incredible. Yeah. So when he was telling me that, I was doing another movie. And I remember, I was like, what are you working on?

Because we've been friends for, like, 25 years. And he was telling me that. And I was like, I just imagine Will, because I know him so well. And he's so charismatic and funny and just has. this presence that is kind of lacking. I don't feel like there's like a male archetype now that fits him. He's like, he's like Robert Mitchum. He reminds me like a young Robert Mitchum, Willernet.

And he's telling me that I'm like, his voice and like that face, stand-up comedy. I was like, I just couldn't get it out of my head, Joe. And I was like, hey man, can I read it? Like, how far along are you guys? And I read it and I was like, I didn't quite, because like you, I'd never seen a movie that I thought nailed it. And I love stand-up comedy so much. I was like, and I have no desire to try to redo it.

And also comedy is so massive right now. And the specials are so great and cinematic right now that there's no reason to try to make a fictional movie about something that we can watch as a documentary or a docu-series or a show that is authentic. I was like so, but I still would really love to capture it cinematically. So what if it's a foil and the movie's about the two of them? Because that's interesting. Yes. And you suck. That was one of the great scenes where Jordan was like, you're bad.

You're bad, you're really bad. And it's much more about just what stand-up comedy, with anything, and you talk about this on your show, doing anything that puts you out of your comfort zone. Yeah. Anything that pushes you. You're going to improve as a human being. That was really what that whole thing is about. And I just love the culture in the world, and I thought there's so much tangible stuff there for me to get excited about cinematically and story-wise. But really, it's like it could have been anything.

Yeah. It's just something that he'd never done that he puts himself out there, and that in doing it and doing it, he just sort of gets more comfortable, you know, and then the mic comes off the stand, and then he's leaning against the wall. And by the end of it, and then the way it was structured, it allows him to do that vampire set at the end of the movie, where all he's doing is exercising what he's feeling emotionally because he's comfortable in this setting.

Yeah. Because the old him, when he has that fight with her in the attic, he just would have kept that all inside. And he would have been canatonic at his kids' assembly where we meet him in the beginning of the movie. Because you just don't know what to do with all that. But if you have an outlet, something expressive, you can exercise it in a healthy way. Yeah. So that really was the point of that whole part of it being stand-up comedy and open mic.

What you really nailed is someone trying it for the first time. You guys really nailed that. You really nailed a beginner in comedy. Like it seemed completely realistic. Great. Yeah. And like, I think that's one of the reasons why Kill Tony is so popular. Yes.

You know, because you get to see. Yes. You can't, that, that raw reality of someone who has never done stand up before. Like, there was people that went up at Madison Square Garden in front of 16,000 people that had never done stand up before. Dude. No, no, no. That's, it's, who knows. Don't do that.

Yes. You should be in a fucking smoky room. Well, not smokey anymore. but a tiny fucking room where disinterested people where everyone's bombing and you bomb to it, it's not that big a deal. Because you might have some potential. But if you fucking bomb in front of 16,000 people,

the pain of that, you may never recover. Also, just thinking about the audio, because you're going to hear your voice through the, you know, echoing. It can't be just in it, like, so I imagine there's an echo. So you're not only bombing, but you're hearing it reverberate. You don't really feel the echo. You don't hear the echo because you have monitors on stage,

So it's coming to you, pretty flat. Okay. But the noise of your voice where you've never heard your voice, you know a microphone before ever. Right. And now you're in front of 16,000 people doing it. And then Tony's sitting there looking at you and Shane's there and I'm there. It's like a nightmare.

It's like you're walking into a nightmare. Well, just doing stand-up in front of a guy like Shane Gillis is crazy. He's sitting right next to you. You've never done stand-up. You're going to do stand-up right next to a guy who's selling out arenas. Like that's nuts. That feeling is nuts. But it's wonderful to watch because you're watching authentic reactions happening in real time.

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It's not processed. It's as clean a mental food. as you're going to get. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. It's just that we, I think human beings really love seeing what it's like when someone starts out doing something because a lot of people have these ideas like, oh, maybe I could try that or maybe I could learn how to play guitar or maybe I could do that. But it's just the getting going and sucking at something in the beginning is terrifying for people. So when they see someone just try it, I think they're like, oh, look at him go. Look at him go. He's out there doing it. He's on the bike. He's moving.

You know, it's like you see actual people that are trying to do something that they've never done before. And it's exciting. And also, the one thing I wanted to touch on is the craft of it all, you know, that it takes a lot of work. I know that it's not, you know, just, you know, the writing, you know, and she says at one point, she's like, you got to write, you know, and keep going up. And I think most people, at least I didn't know before I started going, that people go up three or four times a night. Like, I didn't understand. And so that was something I thought it was important to convey. just the work ethic that's needed.

Well, New York is really great for that, and it's always had a culture of that. It's had a culture of guys hopping from club to club and doing set to set because there's so many clubs in Manhattan. So guys would just, you know, I think the most guy, I ever heard one guy did eight or nine sets a night. Like, they're just like, that's how many clubs there are.

So we just hop all over the place. You start your night at like 8 p.m. Yeah, downtown there's a ton downtown that you can go up to. Yeah. You go all over the place. It's We've got a lot of that here now There's just so many clubs in Austin now

I mean we went there What you build is incredible Thank you It's culture everything You know I showed the movie to a stand-up Who hadn't done stand-up in like 15 years and he said the only thing That for sure you got wrong is the culture

I was like what do you mean He's like no people aren't that nice And I was like Actually I think you're wrong I was like it's changed I was like people are supportive now It's in where you go There's places where it's not very supportive

But at least I used to go to the cellar, like, in early 2000s. Didn't feel like it does now. Right. Well, I think Ari Shafir changed that a lot. He brought, like, the culture of L.A. to New York, where you're, like, more supportive of each other. It was always, like, dog against dog.

Because really, the way it all started out was in the 1990s, it was all about everyone was auditioning for a sitcom. And if you and I were, if I showed up to audition for a sitcom, like, oh, fuck Bradley's here. he's going for the same part. Fuck that guy. You know, it was because it was like, that could change your life. If you got that sitcom, now all of a sudden you're fucking huge,

and I'm still struggling to pay my rent eating ramen. And it could have been me. Right. And so there's this, like, serious resentment that happens in the 1990s. Because everybody, like the golden carrot at the end of the stick was the Tonight Show. Or, you know, hosting a late, if you could get your own late night show. Oh, my God, he made it. He's a host of the Tonight Show.

That was like the thing that only one person could get. And then there was like the sitcom. Like if it really worked out, they'd make a sitcom around you. You'd get a development deal. So there was people would psychologically backstab people. People would talk shit to people before they went on stage. They would try to hijack their fucking mind. Right.

Right. Right. Like, really, it was dark. Crazy. And then the internet came around. And then the internet, instead of people being your competitors, they became not just your friends and not just your colleagues, but also an asset. because if you're doing a podcast and you've got your funny friends on, then your podcast is better.

Right. And then if you tell people about their podcast and their podcast is better, and then you go on their podcast and that's better, and everybody benefits from everybody else doing well. So it completely reversed the system. And then it became much more about being supportive of each other. And then everybody kind of realized, like, hey, it's way more fun when we're all having fun, you know? And since the television thing kind of died off, the sitcom thing kind of died off with reality shows. And then it was really just more about getting clips up on the internet and about getting. And then there was Netflix special.

So it wasn't just everybody trying to get an HBO special. There was way more specials. And then you could just upload specials to YouTube and became this way more collaborative, supportive environment. And then Ari Shafir took that that we had kind of like established in L.A. and brought that to New York and a lot of those guys ran with it. Yeah, I mean, that's the way to go. People always say, you know, there's a lot of room at the top.

Yeah. There's a lot. There's a lot of room and stand up, for sure. You know, and it's like, and everybody has their own lane even within this big highway. Uh-huh. And everybody wants to be with other people. Who wants to be a lone wolf, really, for a long period.

Yeah. There's a few out there, but they're all psychologically destroyed. They're just a mess. Yeah. Who doesn't want to have friends? It's crazy. Yeah. I don't get it.

But, you know, It's that aspect of the culture I felt like in the movie you guys nailed, which is a realistic aspect. A realistic portrayal of what it's like where a bunch of people just, they were all busting each other's balls. Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you could be supportive and still honest. That was the thing. There's no lack of honesty or criticism.

It's just it's not done with the hope for your demise. Yes. That's the difference. Yeah, I think the 90s like poisoned a lot of communions. It poisoned them because it gets. gave you this idea that the whole thing was about a means to an end. And that end was a sitcom. And everybody thought, you just had to get a sitcom, got to get a sitcom.

And that was what everybody was working towards. There's people that were developing their entire act based around a persona that they could sell to the networks. Were you doing stand-up before your sitcom? Yes. I see. Okay. So is that how that happened? Did someone see you?

And then they were like, oh, you got to try this show? Yeah, I got ridiculous. ridiculously lucky. Like, you know, a lot of people say, oh, I work really hard to get on a sitcom. Nope. No, I got lucky. I did the MTV. I never had any aspirations to act at all. I did MTV, half hour, comedy hour. I got a development deal. And all of a sudden, I'm living in L.A., and I'm on a couple of months. And it happened in a couple of months. And a great sitcom. I was on a bad one first. I was on a bad one called Hardball. It was a sitcom on Fox where I played a baseball player. That show got canceled, and unfortunately, I thought it was going to go, because I was retarded.

I was, you know, 25 years old, 26 years old. And I was like, oh, this is going to take off. I should get an apartment. So I had a lease on an apartment, and I wanted to move. I'm sure people were telling you that it was going to take off, too. Oh, yeah, of course. Everybody believed it. Yeah, you're going to win an Emmy.

Well, the guys who made it, Jeff Martin and Kevin Kern, they worked on The Simpsons. They worked on Married with Children. They were really good. But then the Fox people came in and just ruined it. Like, the executives came in, and they brought in a bunch of hacks and just ruined the show. Did you have fun doing it? Oh, yeah. I had a kind of good time.

but I also missed comedy and I missed New York people and I wanted to get out of there I was like I gotta get back to New York fuck this place as soon as it was over but I was like fuck I got this lease so I had a lease for a year

and then I got a development deal So how long were you in L.A. at that time? Oh I was only in L.A. for a few months Wow. Yeah so I moved out there to do the show right I got a lease like almost immediately and then I was out there for a few months show get canceled

and then I got a development deal to do something for NBC. And they were going to do my own sitcom. But as we were developing it, they said, hey, there's a show that we're doing. It's called News Radio. It's already been picked up. We already did the pilot.

But we fired one person from the pilot, and we want you to read for this. And that's how I got on News Radio. That's how it happened. That was the only second show I ever auditioned forever. Wow. So I had one show, when on air and got canceled. You had a very unique track.

Dumb luck. That's nuts. stumbled into it 100% I can't take any credit for it dumb luck amazing just my ability to keep it together in auditions yeah not crack with no acting experience at all but it was just not it wasn't something that I aspired to so it didn't have the kind of pressure that it probably had for a lot of people and it probably didn't have the same kind of elation too right like you I assume if it was not something you really wanted it was like it was fun but you

weren't like this is this is like this feels right no what it felt like is ooh I'm gonna get money I'll get some money. Yeah, then something's wrong. That's what I was like. Something's wrong. I was like, this is good. I'm going to get money and I don't have to worry about money.

That's how I thought about it. Right. And then when I was doing it, I was like, wow, I'm so lucky. Like, how did I stumble? I'm here with Phil Hartman? This is crazy. Yeah, Dave Foley and Stephen Root, moratier. And this is nuts.

Yeah. It was a crazy cast. No, it was Paul Sims. Paul Sims. Right. Yeah. Who had just left Larry Sanders show. Right.

So he left Larry Sanders. Yeah, it was crazy luck. Just stupid, dumb. That's right. Sorgon did that other show with Jeff Daniels. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. So, but back in those days, like, everybody was working towards that. And fortunately, I already had that.

So my thing was just like continue to work on stand-up and just work on my stand-up. And if this all goes away, I'll just go back to being a comic. And doing stand-up in LA. Yes. Right. So that was new? Yeah, and that's where I encountered, like, the worst backstabbing. backstabbing I've ever seen in my life.

So you're coming from New York where you didn't feel that? You didn't feel it as much. Right. You know, you felt like a lot of shit talking, but that was fun. You know, guys would make fun if you bombed. Right. They were doing it to your face. Yeah, they were doing it to your face and it was a more like, it was just a more ball-busting,

like silly environment in New York. It wasn't, no one thought they were going to get famous in New York. You know, they were all just right. Just doing sets. But in LA, everybody had this idea to get a thing. sitcom and then in the 1990s they started giving out development deals that was the big thing you get like a 200,000 half a million dollar development deal and then all the sudden you have all this money and you're living and so everybody was working towards that so it became instead of like people working towards

just being a stand-up it became stand-up was a means to an end and then all these other people they were in your way to get that goal Jesus and then your agent was telling you that's what you had to do and ever because they wanted that money too so it was all like programming people to go after the so completely different culture in the stand-up community there exactly but then that all went away it all went away like this the idea of working towards a sitcom is not it's like working towards a career in ham radio like it's fucking went away well you say that rye changed it how did he do it because he brought the l-a culture to new york rari moved from l-a back to new york and he I mean, everybody that I talked to in New York is always like, you guys are doing it wrong.

And people listen to him. Yeah. Well, because he was established, and he was a really good comic. And they were like, I think he's right. Wow. And they would come to L.A. Like a lot of guys like Andrew Schultz and a lot of these other guys, they would come to L.A. And they're like, bro, everybody's so fucking nice here.

And they're all just having a great time. Like, why aren't we doing that? Why aren't we just having a great time? And so it shifted. It's just, it was the culture of the Internet. The Internet changed everything because there was no long. this one thing that a hundred guys were trying to audition for. Now it was anybody could just put up something online.

And then all your friends became assets. They all became like valuable to you instead of competitors. That's cool. Yeah. Do you go up in these cities ever now? I do. If I'm in L.A. I'll still do sets in L.A.

I haven't been in a while. But, you know, most of the time I'm at my own club. Right. It makes it way. Also, I have teenage kids and there. want to be home. Did you do the cellar? Yeah, I did the seller back in the day. But more I did, I did the stand, I did catch when it was there. Right. I did, um, uh, I always did Dangerfields. Dangerfields was great because it was like a hole in the wall. There was hardly

anybody there. Is that where he shot his special? Yes. Wow. Yeah. It was big in the 80s and then something happened and by the time I got there in the 90s, it was like fucking dead. One time I went there, and I had a spot at like 8.30, and I don't remember what time the show started, but there was a few people on before me, and I got there, and the people that were on before me were sitting at the bar. I go, what's going on?

There's no crowd. I'm like, there's no crowd? There's nobody. And so then this couple walked up, and they bought tickets for the comedy show. And this guy, Bobby, who was the doorman, like, step right up. It was a Scottish guy.

Come on in. I have you seated. He seats them down. There's no one there, just them. They sit down. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Dangerfield. wheels, your first act, and we all did stand up for two fucking people. Wow.

Yeah. The whole night was two people. And they had a great time. I'm sure. But it was weird. It's like when you're doing stand-up for just two people. You're only looking at two people. But you also realize how much of your act is bullshit.

How much of your act is like fucking dance moves. It's just nonsense. Like English on the cue ball. It's like you're doing a lot of silly things that like don't even, and you're not connecting with real humans. Right. And when there's two people there, it like cuts the fat out of all of your shit. And you recognize where the flaws in your writing are and the flaws and your delivery.

But Dangerfields was, it was a wild little place. It was like a classic comedy club that didn't have any, no industry went there, no agents, no managers went there. Always. Yeah. It was just like a bunch of weird degenerates. And it was fun. Wow.

That was a fun place. So I did that club a lot. But a lot of, I did the road a lot. Yeah. Because that was how I could make money. And I could headline. Like I do an hour. Because if you're in the city, you're doing 15-minute sets or 10-minute sets.

Like, that's great. But it's hard to piece together an hour at a 10-minute sets because you kind of want to let the material breathe and put it all together and compose it into one big thing. And you really can work on that a lot more if you're actually headlining. Do you watch a lot of special? comedy specials nowadays? I don't. I watch a lot of comics when I see them at the club. Right, but not like...

No, I probably should. I probably should watch more of them, but really comedy is... It's like an artistic form of hypnosis. And the real way to see comedy is to be there live. Right. Because you're like... And you know when the person's locked in and you know when they're not. You feel it.

They got you. Like they're thinking for you. If I'm watching a tell and he's at like the most of the most of the most of the most of the mother ship and he's killing. Like we're all like this. We're like locked into his brain and we're letting him like take us on a ride. Yeah, of course. It's like a kind of a form of hypnosis. Yes. And I really think that a stand-up special, as good as they are, you're maybe getting 60 to 70% of the experience of actually being there. That's why I enjoy watching them to see how different people make them. Because there's all different types. Yeah. You know, some are heavily edited, which always brings me out

if there's a way to keep it so you feel like you're in the room. Right. You know, I remember, was a Mr. Tambourine man or the Chris Rock special where when he changed the tone of it, he started talking about jerking off to porn and how he became addicted to porn. And it was that great filmmaker who's a comedian who does music. He did that thing during COVID when he was in his house. Bo Burnham. I think he directed it. Oh, really?

And the camera just keeps going on, keeps going on. By the time you don't even realize it because you're hypnotized. You're right here on Chris Rock. And I think probably subconsciously, just thinking about it now, that's probably one of the things, because that's kind of the frame I used the whole time on Alex, on Will. But I remember watching that going like, when the fuck did this become a close-up? You know? But that's what it was happening. So there was a synergy between the camera and what he was doing in the place.

Right. At least made me feel like, cinematically, I was there, and this is what he was doing, hypnotizing me. Right. And then the opposite of that was the special that Chris Rock did where he changed clothes. So he was doing a special where he filmed part of it in one place and another part of it in another place. And he spliced the two of them together with different outfits. So you would have him begin a bit with one outfit on and then end the bit with a different outfit on. And you're like, who's idea was this?

Yeah, because the many you cut and edit in any way, you know, even podcasts audio-wise. That's the thing I've learned. You know, some people, you know, they edit the audio of a podcast. And you're like, that's not, someone didn't take a breath before they answered. Oh, like cutting out in between Yeah, it's a whole other rhythm Right, well that's the YouTube thing, right? YouTube for a long time

Was doing this thing where they would Cut out all the pauses in between People talking thing And it became like a style of editing Right Where it's like shocking For my ears It's impossible for me to get in

Right It's just impossible Well it's the short attention span concept Right You're just saying people are so fucking stupid Stupid you can't give many breaks You can't give many breath You gotta keep talking

keep talking, keep talking, and then you know, blah-l-bl-bl-bl-bl-bl-bl-l-l-l-l-l-l- And it's like, it's exhausted. After well, it's just trying to keep you engaged as much as possible by editing instead of by having actually interesting content. Compelling content, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's an interesting exercise. Yeah, it's, it's, I enjoy watch. Like, I think Josh Safdi did Sandler's one, and he was, and he did all this backstage, and he walked up, and then he was in many locations, but he was playing music a lot. Yeah, I just like watching everybody's different. you know sort of exploration of different stand-up shows because it's such a huge viable market so people you know it's it's fun to watch how they do it i think that's probably why because i watched so many of them i wanted to do it in a way in a movie have you done stanip at all never never never never never have you thought about it when you were doing the film did you think about doing no no no yeah and i don't know why joe yeah but no i just it's not like one of those things that i feel um compelled to do but would

Would it be fun? Would I be scared? All those things. Will I try and open mic one night? Yeah, I probably should. But it's not, I didn't feel compelled to do it. No. The problem would be if you did it and it went okay. But you're like, I think I could do better. And then you're gone. You know me? I know everybody. It's kind of the same thing with all of us.

Yeah, of course, dude. There's always a party. You're like, I think I can do better. And then next thing you know, like, I got to leave. I got to go do a set. What the fuck are you doing? Dad, I haven't eaten dinner. No, no, no, no. It's like all artistic pursuits. They can become an obsession and they become an addiction and they become a part of you. And then it's like your brain naturally goes towards that pathway of thinking about that thing all day.

Yeah, which I love. Oh, it's great. It's a fun thing. I remember being 11 and watching The Elephant Man and knowing at that moment, you okay? Yeah, I'm sweating. I'm sweating. I'm just going to take this. knowing at that moment that like, oh, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

When you saw The Elephant Man? Really? Yeah, I remember. Why was it that movie? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I've thought about it a lot, obviously. David Lynch directed it. I remember the scene, Anthony Hoppkin.

I loved film. So I always loved film. My dad loved film. But it wasn't like a conscious thing where I was like, this is it. And I remember, you know, in my living room, it's on the TV. I saw all the movies on the TV. You know, I never saw Apocalypse. now in a movie theater,

Godfather, or anything, loneliness as long as it's runner, you know, none of it. It was all on the television. And, but I was watching The Elephant Man.

It was on HBO. It came through Philadelphia where I live, Comcast, and they would show like it all the time. And it was Anthony Hopkins coming in and he's seeing Joseph Merrick, the elephant man for the first time. And the way David Lynch shot it,

you only see his shadow. And then Hopkins starts crying. And I don't know. I was just like, I was there in that cellar with him. and I was like, I forgot I was in the living room and then the whole movie was like that and it came out and I was like, I just want, I want that.

So was that like the first seed that was planted? Yeah, that was it. It was the first and only. It was, I was 11. It was like, it was like, bam. It was like a shot. There's a scene right here. Yeah, it's right, it's this.

This is it. Look how young Anthony Hawkins looks. Yeah, he was incredible. Stand up. Stand up. Turn around. Wow. Wow.

That was it. What is it like watching that now? Yeah. Thinking that that planted a seed that changed your whole life. I'm like, well, first I thought, wasn't it a shadow? But that was before. And then I'm like, yeah. And then I was just in it.

Then I was just in it. Does he know what I'm talking about? And then I was, and then as my brain started going, the movie kept bringing me in it. Yeah. And then by the end, by that pushing, I was like, I'm just watching this guy. Look at this thing for the first time. And then fuck, look at this beast, Anthony Hopkins. I wonder what he was looking at when he was crying.

I know. you know because you know pull that out of your eyeballs oh dude and i wrote so i went to grad school moved to new york wrote him a letter because our dean said somehow he knew him or he had the school i went to that i only got into because they let anybody in

um they did that show inside the actor's studio do you remember that on tv on brab yeah i remember that show and so our thesis was the show there was like our art not like our there was a class but it was a class like technically a class And so all these incredible people would come on And Anthony Hopkins was there

And I was there for that And then I wrote him a letter Just telling him and I asked James Lipton That was his name, the dean Yeah And then, you know And then never, you know

I never heard from ever And then, you know, And now I know him, dude Do you know what I'm saying? How weird. It's crazy. It's so weird, right? I never get over that.

Me neither. Me neither. Ever. Ever. Ever. And there's some guys, I don't know if you feel this way, too, but there's some guys, like, then they become your friends. But still, I still feel a little bit of, like, extra energy when I'm around them. Like, it'll never go away.

Right. Yeah. For sure. It's crazy. For me, one of the big ones was Tarantino. Like, hanging out with Tarantino. Yeah, that would be nuts. It's so odd going to dinner with him.

Yeah, it's crazy. Hanging out with him here. Him coming to the club. He'd come out in the green room. That's nuts. It's just weird. It's like, that's Quentin Tarantino. Yeah.

That's great. Yeah, and it never goes away. As close as you get, even when your brain's off, right? Because that's always the lipness. Is my brain off when I'm with the person? Right. That's like when like, okay. Right. And even like Clint Eastwood, who I did American sniper with, I mean, it was always Clint Eastwood.

And I got to a point where my brain was off, you know, but still, I'm just like, what if my dad was alive? If my dad was alive, he would flip the fuck out. What was it like doing that scene with the fake baby? Was that weird? It's so funny. Just talking about that two days ago, dude. And you know, I've come full circle. I actually think it's dope.

Really? I think it's fucking dope. Why? Because it's so just like, wow, look at these people fully invested, and it's a doll. Well, it's like a scene where you're kind of like moving the hand a little bit with your finger. I could tell you the whole thing, dude. So we had three sets of twins. And Clint likes to shoot fast, which I love.

love and they were crying and they weren't ready and he was like you know what let's just uh let's put let's put the doll in and i was like okay i was like all right and and and i had the doll and i remember and i made a joke on set and i was like i was like uh i just saved you 35 grand because i moved his his uh his hand with my thumb you know like i saved visual effects like 50 grand like made a joke about it and then we got to post and we were in vancouver uh at the doing the meeting but you know everybody defers to the boss. I still remember being in a room and I'm like a theater we're watching and they're like okay Clint so we did this and uh you know the tank has dirt on it and you know whatever visual effects they had done we get to the baby and like okay Clint this is a this scene and it ends and I'm literally

behind Clint I just see the back of his head and I'm waiting for everybody to raise their hand like we got to spend more money and make the kid real and uh I think the kid had like two fingers too like they weren't even it was like an AIA yeah that's yeah that's it that's it that's it but dude it's kind of dope I love it now I've come full circle so so so and I raised my hand and I was like Clint I just think that it's clear you know that that's not a baby and what would do we can we at least just find out what the cost would be and no one and no one said anything and then I remember he was like I think I think we move on. Wow. And that was it, dude. And I was it. And I was like, okay, okay. And I remember

talking to the other producer, I was like, this is going to come back. I was like, bro, this is going to come back to haunt us. And I remember he said, no, Bradley, you're too close to the movie. I was like, I don't think so, dude. No, everybody's like, he's moving his thumb. This is crazy. That's a rubber baby. Crazy, dude. There's another one, too. And like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. What is it like doing a film like that where you're playing an actual human being? Is that Is that different than a written character that has no physical body that you can kind of become who you think the words represent? Yeah. But when you're playing a guy like Chris Kyle, you're playing a human. Yeah.

And you're trying to figure out a way to make it as realistic as possible, but you're acting. Like, what does that like? I mean, the thing that just popped my head is the pressure is, it's like night and day. because there are people that you have to serve. You know, especially with Chris Kyle. We started making that movie. He was alive. He got killed while he was still negotiating with Warner Bros.

I know, I think we'd just closed his deal. And then he was murdered on February 2nd, I believe. And it was just like, whoa. And then, but in fact, we were like, now we really got to make this movie. and then Clinton and I flew to Midlothian, Texas and met with his family and his widow and his parents and then the kids. I did the Elephant Man. I did it as a play in my thesis in grad school and then I did it at Williamstown and then I actually did it in New York and London. So and even though it's a long time ago, that was the first time I felt that responsibility because I actually loved that guy, Joseph Merrick.

And I did and I felt that responsibility to him. So I had done something like that before. But this was the next time It was massive Joe But I think that that It's like you're always looking for What's the fuel that's gonna allow me to work as hard as I can And the fuel when you're playing a real person

Is like there's like four extra canisters Or like vats of firepower for you to work hard Because you just you know you're looking across At the eyes of somebody say I'm gonna serve your son Or your husband or your father It's a major response Maybe even more major because now he's deceased. Yeah.

It was mind-blowing. But it terrified me. And also, like, I'm 185 pounds at that point from northeast Philadelphia. This guy's from Midlothian, Texas, Sealed Team 3. You know, it's like how... And the way Clint works, the way we did work, you know, Kevin Lace, who was a sealed Team 3 with Chris, was in the movie, played Dauber. Jacob Shicko's one tribe, which is what I'm wearing.

he was a Marine that... Did you ever see American sniper? Yes. Yeah, there's that scene where he goes to the hospital and there's all the guys that been wounded. Jacob Shick is one of them. You know, so there's real guys. It's all real.

So I step in. You know, I've got to... I'm going to die unless I believe I'm Chris. Right. So I have to do whatever I can so that I believe I'm Chris. If I believe I'm Chris, then I have a shot

at everybody else potentially going along with this illusion. I just have to be absolutely fearless when I walked on set. So I just, it just made me work so hard that I'd never worked hard, that if it's a created character, you know, it's different. But it comes with a different set of challenges. You know, it just depends on what it is,

but I do know, and then with Leonard Bernstein, he did the same thing, huge responsibility, like massive that I felt to his kids, to people that loved him. But mainly his kids, all three, his son has passed away since it, But as three kids are like, okay, you know, they're like handing you, you know, it's like if someone went to your daughter in 12 years and said, here's this movie about your father. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

You know. Yeah. And this guy's sitting across and be like, okay, I'm going to play your father. That's just a whole other thing. Because the truth is, like, if it's good, it's going to last a long time. And it's going to be a thing that marks their journey. Right. So I'm a part of, whatever little part of Chris's journey.

So you give somebody, the faith that whoever has the power to give to that artist is just, you know, so it just made me work, you know, like you just don't stop working to you get to the point where you believe you're him. Or you believe that he's a part of you, something's working. Did you meet Chris Kyle? Never. Just talked to him on the phone once. Oh, wow. Yeah. So what did you, like, what did you train?

Oh, yeah. What did you do to try to like? Yeah. Well, it's interesting, right? It's like, well, I couldn't do anything that would ever achieve what he achieved, but it's like, what can I do to look like a master? Right? So there's three weapons, the 338 Lapua, the 50 Cal, the rifle.

It's like, what can I do? How much time do I have? I think I had like six months. Also, luckily, we're the same shoe size, same age. He has a whole Naseer I do. You find things that like, you know, same height. I was like, oh, this is great. And then I just like, but he's too.

3003 pounds. So the first thing was 6,000 calories a day, found a trainer. 6,000? Yeah, 6,000 calories. How did you force 6,000? First I did it with real food, and that was a big mistake. Because I couldn't get up. I remember the first week I did it, had an incredible chef, and then I couldn't get up. Like, I couldn't move my stomach. So then we, I think we split like half of it into protein shakes, but it was still 6,000 calories. When you say you couldn't get up, like what do you mean? My stomach wasn't able to process this that much food. Yeah, whatever, whatever happened.

Is this getting blocked? Getting blocked. Like major pain. Like I was giving birth or something, what I would imagine. So then we changed it and it would be like huge meal shake, huge meal shake. Worked out twice a day, five, I had three rest days, no cardio. It was all about strength training. And it was all focused around deadlifting.

Oh, okay. And it was this guy Jason Walls who I worked with. And I did that, yes, it would be like Monday, Monday. Sunday, 5.30 a.m. and then a 4.30 p.m. or like 3.30. Monday, Tuesday, rest Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, rest Saturday, Sunday. And did that. And I got up to 238 pounds. And a lot of it was like, because I was thinking about him, his neck. So I came like, I would do all these, all the neck stuff. And it was his shoulders. Like I just wanted so you could shoot over. And it's like, you know, which we did all the time in the movie. Where the guy's just, you know, Chris. Yeah. NFL playoffs, let's go. Draft King's Sportsbook and official sports betting. partner of the NFL makes every moment feel bigger. A running back cuts through the line. A strip sack flips the field. A tight end hauls in the kind of touchdown grab you'll talk about for years. Postseason games shift fast. And with Draft Kings live betting options, you can stay

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pass-through if per-wager tax may apply in Illinois 21 and over age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario restrictions apply that must win to receive bonus bets which expire in seven days minimum odds required four additional terms and responsible gaming resources see dkng.com slash audio limited time offer um how much weight did you gain I went from 185 to 238 And all naturally, because cancer's in my family. I've had skin cancer and I'm terrified of anything. So I was like not going to do that. So, you know.

You did creatine or anything? To creatine, yeah. Which, by the way, I just started again like three months ago. Oh, it's amazing. Dude. I'm on this push-up thread with a bunch of dads at my school. And we do 100 push-ups a day. And if we don't, you have to pay $10 into a pool.

And then when we get to 800, we go to Chinatown and I'll have a meal with the money. and then I started taking creatine like two and a half months ago and we just upped it to 150 I was like this is because I could only do and we'd like YouTube the perfect pushup which I didn't know which is like a whole other world

and then now it's I mean creatine's incredible it's incredible for your brain as well I've heard you say that like I can't tell that because I also take zins all the time so it's like I don't know what's doing it yeah me too but but

yeah where was it on the Chris thing You're talking about gaining weight and how you did it. Oh yeah, so then I worked with this and I worked with the guy who, so it was doing that in conjunction with learning about sniping and working with Kevin Lace,

this guy, Dauber, we would go up to the Disney Ranch and work with like 600 yard head targets prone that I would just do all the time. And then once we cast the rest of the team, we did all this stuff. But really, Kevin Lace,

this guy, Dauber was the guy because he was there and he was there through the whole shooting just so everything would be real. And we just drilled it. We became a group. Like, you know, we did the work. But it wasn't so much about like, I was like, I have this amount of time.

Doing like seal boot camp will do nothing for me. Like that'll just give me the brain of like how hard this is and will I be broken. I've done us not that I couldn't have, maybe I would have been broken, but I felt like I do understand that. Like I've been through certain things where like I understand what it's like to push myself to beyond my breaking point and what that looks like and feels like. What I don't know is when I'm looking at a target and I have to, at fact, in the curve of the earth. You know, like that's the stuff I want to learn. Yeah.

So that's where I focus was those three weapons, you know, live rounds, gaining the weight so I felt like I was. Here we go. We're back. That's like all of a sudden you're like, oh, you didn't take the drug? You know what I'm saying? Like, no, I'm not on it. And then so it was those two things in connection. junction. The curve of the earth is nuts. Yeah, to think about that. It's crazy. Long distance

shots. And then the fact that these guys stayed up 24 hours would pee in there, you know, never get up to pee. Just pee right there, right in the room. You know, I mean, I said no. And then by the way, it's a human being. I mean, it's just, yeah, forget it. Um, and then just working with this guy, Tim Monick on, like, his voice. To me, it's all, the voice is everything. It's all about the voice and, like, where he's from. And Chris was interesting because his accent started to change, you know, because he, once he got out. And then he did that, um, he did a couple of a couple of shows, you know, he wrote that book, which is how I came across and then gave it to Clint. So he had an interesting accent that kind of changed a little bit. But yeah, just the voice, just hitting the voice. I would work this guy five days a week, you know, you know, and I had tons of stuff. I had so much information that Tea, Kyle, had been so generous to give me, so many home videos, you know, correspondence. You know, I used to work out to his, which I just did the other day. It's so funny we're talking about this. I literally just did it two days ago

worked out to his playlist. Both of his workout playlists. Oh, wow. And I blew up two huge posters. And one was him just like this and one with his gun. And I would do that and look at him every morning. It was just like this beautiful ritual that I felt like I was with him every day.

How long did you take to prepare? I'd have to look back. I think I did it fast, but I think we had about six months or five months. But like, you know, full on, that's it, nothing else. I didn't have a kid back then. It was like, that was it. Yeah. Yeah. That's there's there's something very unique about someone doing a film about an actual person. Yeah. Like a great actor doing like De Niro when he played Jake Lamata. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Like that that was one of the first like me I mean he became a different person.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to. Yeah. You have to. There's like emerging of you and that whatever that idea, the soul, whatever of the person. It sounds so hokey. You know, I get it. But if you ask me what memory is of, of making a sniper, like memory, like on in scenes. It's not that, like, I was acting. It's just, that's not my memory. What is the memory? Of, like, okay, now we're going to do this, and it's, like, me as him doing it. Wow.

You know, that's... Is that a mind fuck when you stop, when, like, the movie wraps? Well, the good thing is you do a Clint who takes the piss out of fucking everything. Oh, does he? So, yeah, so we would go to dinner at night. And I learned from Christian Bail in American Hustle, like he just stayed in, because I didn't understand this, stay in the character all the time. You know, you hear these stories, but you don't know what the real is like, how does that work? You see a cell phone?

Do you, like, lose your mind? Like, how do you, what is it? How do you do it? And it's like, oh, I overthought it. Bail would just, he was played this character that's from New York in the American Hustle. And I'd go in there, the first day I met him, he was his accent, and the rest of the movie, even like on weekends, it was him, Christian. And we would talk about stuff in this kid, but he would just speak in that voice. And I was like, oh, it's that simple.

Like, it's not some big thing. Like, once you get the voice, you know, but I took it, I mean, and it's wonderful. Because then you feel like you're not acting and you're in the voice. And I do it all. So I would be in that voice of Chris for the whole movie. And then we would go to, like, a restaurant when we were like up in Lancaster shooting or something. And Clint would then make fun of me in my accent as Chris and order a steak. And it was just, it was great.

Yeah. He's fucking sabotaging your performance. He's making yourself conscious. That's crazy. It was awesome. That's crazy. I always wondered what it's like to be around someone as method. But I don't know that's, I wouldn't, you know, method is also a term that, you know.

What does it mean? Well, the method, well, what happened? It started in Russia, right? And then, you know, that book on acting that I should know, you know, what's his name? He came and then the group theater started. and it was like, you know, and all these people then disbanded, and there's Harry Meisner, and there's, yes, Stanislovsky, exactly. And there was this other guy Vok Tengov that also talked about every rehearsal.

It's very interesting, and I read all this in grad school. And then the group theater came in, and then Ilya Kazan was a huge part of it becoming popular because you had this guy that was sweeping floors at the actor's studio and then started directing plays, and then all of a sudden he's a huge movie director. And he's putting Marlon Brando, who's part of the actor studio, starring in his movies. you know and he's doing and so it all just sort of erupted but then it branched out and so there's people that are dogmatic about it about it's only using your you know you're substituting so if i'm doing a scene with you like you aren't you you're my brother you know right but but it's evolved and

it's like what works for you to me it's like you use your your own experience plus your imagination you know but that's that's the sort that's the you know sort of a very layman's 50-second you know, telling of what the origin of the method is. But I went to the actor studio, which is based in the method. That's where I went to grad school. Is it easy? And it's very valuable, because I didn't know shit before that. I mean, I did a couple of plays at Georgetown.

I didn't know anything. I mean, I just loved acting, but I didn't do anything about it. I was terrified as a kid. Like, we did this thing in high school where we had to, as seniors, we would put on our show, where we would make fun of our teachers. And I, like, I could do my Latin teacher, Mr. Burke. I was like, and I actually sang in it. We sang, and I was like, but I was terrified, Joe, for the whole year,

sleepless nights for a year leading up to it. That's how scared I was in public. I remember doing like a fifth grade presentation with the poster boards about lock and hobbs and the poster shaking so hard because I was so nervous. I was like, how am I going to, what's the sphere thing? Isn't that weird? I know. But then in college, I did a couple of plays, but I still didn't know what I was doing, but I loved it.

And I was like little stuff. I was like, Aselon, the server in Dangerous Liaisons. But I still remember like, I closed the door and the rhythm, rhythmic way and people laughed. And I remember I was like, ooh, oh, this feels good. And then so I applied to grad school there. And then all of a sudden it was like I got a huge foundation of like what I could do, you know, that your insecurities are actually your attributes, your fears or stuff that, you know,

all this thing that you're a sensitive kid. This is all good stuff. And I never felt that way before about any of that night. This teacher Elizabeth Kemp, who was incredible, who then passed away in my house. years later. She got sick. Yeah, it's crazy. Passed way in your house? Yeah, in Venice, California. She was sick, so we put her hospice there, but she was incredible, and she did this basic technique class, and it was the first time ever, because I didn't, you know, grow up therapy, and none of that was even, you know, in the vicinity of talking about your feelings, you know, I loved my dad,

but I grew up in, you know, the 80s in Northeast Philadelphia with an Irish Italian upbringing. that wasn't part of the deal. And then all of a sudden, in grad school with other guys and women and were, like, laying down, and she wants us to go through an experience of loss and betrayal when we were children. It's like, what the fuck? And actually, I could take all that stuff I've been ashamed of, and I could use it and bring it into art.

I don't know. It really clicked with me in a huge way. And I use it even to this day. All the movies I do, I always get the actors together and do, like, a workshop for a week that's based on dreams, that she also taught me, and I just find it invaluable. Any way you can just, how can I just get to a place where we're just talking to each other and I don't, you know, and that all this stuff I feel it's okay.

Right, right. Yeah. When you're doing a guy like Chris, it must also be kind of easier to keep the accent than to try to reestablish it right before we see. You just said it. It's a logical thing. Yeah. That's it.

It's a logical thing. The idea of me talking with an accent or even thinking that it's an accent, because you don't think about it anymore. The whole point is I'm not doing an act. If I'm doing a scene with you and I'm thinking about how I'm talking it's over. It's a rap. It's not real. But if I'm just talking to you

and it happens to be the voices I've been working on for however long time, then we're in it. We got a shot. And if I'm stopping it, there's no way I'm not thinking about. So yes, Joe, that is the reason. You know what's a really underappreciated talent is voice actors who do

audiobooks. I was watching a video of this guy because I never knew how they did it and I kind of assumed that whenever they had a change accents, they probably had a pause where they were, but there's a video of a guy doing the voiceover for Lord of the Rings. The Lord of the Rings audio book and he goes into Smeagel, he goes into the Ghal character while he's doing narration. There's no break. He just smoothly transitions into Smeag. It's fucking incredible. It's crazy. It's fucking incredible. It's incredible. It is absolutely masterful and completely underappreciated. Yeah, I agree with you.

Because if you watch this guy do it, I don't know the gentleman's name who's the voiceover actor, but I love audiobooks. That guy. Listen to this guy. Oh, it's Andy Circus. Sninkle was holding a debate with some other thought that used the same voice but made it squeak and hiss. A pale light and a green light alternate.

in his eyes as he spoke. Smear and premised. Said the first thought. Yes. Yes, my precious. Came the answer. Amazing. Fucking amazing.

That's crazy. What a master. And you're talking about a master actor. Yes. Yeah, you know, because he's been in a lot of movies. He's directed. He directed that great movie that was like Jungle Book, a version of Jungle Book, the Christian Bail actually played The Panther, I believe.

He's incredible. And I got to meet him. He's like, this guy's like a one-off generational talent. Yeah, he's insane. You have to be to be that good at voiceover acting. Yeah, and he's just a great actor. Yeah, you have to be. Yeah, I agree.

And my mother watches this. She'll kill me that I'm saying. My mother watches, first of all, she loves Turkish soap opera. So she watches everything. Turkish? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Why them specifically? I don't know.

She just graduated from Hallmark into Turkish. And she. And then she's evolved even further. She just watches a screen where there's two people, AI images, and it's just a person telling a story. And I often I'll come down making breakfast because when she stays with me in New York, she has the room down there. And I'll be like making my daughter breakfast.

And I could hear it where I'll go to the bathroom, which is right next to her. And I was like, wow, these guys, these voices. I mean, the guy's carrying it all. It's just an image. And she watched it for hours. And I'm like, what's going to happen? Is he going to make that, is the firm going to hire him?

Is she going to, did she see the note? Like, it's amazing. I was like, yeah, it's really an art form. Turkish. Yeah. I remember the first time I came down, I was like, oh, no, what happened? Because I'm just hearing. I'm like, what happened?

And I walk in and I'm like, mom, what are you watching? He's like, oh, no, this guy's the best actor in the world. This guy. And so she just reads the subtitles. She did it for, like, she's watched, it's called, um, uh, oh, if you look up, uh, he's like, what's it called circle, uh, is it dove, bird, bird, something? How could I forget it? Oh, baby.

Is that it? Early bird. Early bird? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Explain this? So it's a soap, it's a soap opera. There's like 360 episodes.

She's watched them all like five, four times. And she'll come in. She'll like do a marathon session, come in to make some food. She's like, this guy, just the way he moves. This guy's the best actor. That's him. That's him. Yeah.

That's him. Is it speaking in Turkish? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Let me hear some of this. This looks like, yeah, that's it. Yeah, there he is. I understand you got it.

I'm he I'm here. Yeah, there he is. And so she likes this, and she does the voice out, she reads the... No, so that was the middle stage. Now she's graduated to...

It's different now where she just watches two AI images and it's a story. But she did this for a good, like, eight years. All through COVID. Why was she into this? I don't know. She must have come across it one day

somewhere and then that was it. She just got hooked? Oh, I mean, hooked isn't even the word. Yeah By the way It's pretty good Yeah yeah You watch it?

Yeah yeah Yeah he's great And the woman And it's great too Yeah Do you consume a lot of films Do you watch a lot of acting? I watch a lot of everything

Yeah I love television Films And then you know Like eight months ago I know I'm late to the game Came across podcast It was only eight months ago

Yeah Yeah That's interesting Isn't it Yeah Yeah What made you get into that? I can't remember, but it was your podcast,

and I'm trying to think what it was. And then it was like, oh, and then I came, and then, you know, once you watch something on your phone, it, like, suggests other things. And then you had two guys on that I thought were really interesting, and then they do a trigonometry. Yeah, trigonometry. And I find that very fascinating.

Oh, they're great. Yeah, great. And so that's how it just started. So now it's, like, a huge part of, like, I have this whole little thing, like, like, often I'll go to bed, and my daughter's listening to your voice. But I do put on headphones sometimes

because I love like just at the end of the day listening or watching I'll put it on the side table yeah it's very podcast are incredible and it's very soothing very soothing that's interesting I hardly ever listen to them anymore

I love TV I love it yeah I take in a lot of content have you watched the beast in me on Netflix I did Dane's oh dude holy shit dude and that guy Kerry Russell's husband

Matthew Reese dude The bad guy. Yeah. How fucking good is that guy? So I did a movie with him years ago called Burnt about a chef. And we had never met. And there's a scene where my character, he was trying to get sober.

And he went off the wagon. And he goes into this guy, their old nemesis. They were nemesis with each other. His restaurant after hours. And it was like a pretty dark scene that we never met me and this guy, this actor, right, before we shot. And I come in and then I don't know. I was pretty locked in. And there's one scene which wasn't really scripted,

and I took, you know, those suave bags, and I put it over my head to try to, because he's trying to kill himself. Which, by the way, I was like, oh, this could work. If I don't get help. Those things are strong and tight. And then we had this experience, Joe,

where then he was ripping it off me, trying for me not to kill myself. And I don't know him that well, but that's the thing about, like, making art together. Like, we had that. It'll never, every time I see him, I've seen him maybe six times of, like,

certain things or something. I always feel like we're bonded forever, just based on this one experience that we had. And he's an incredible actor. He's just, and I, the end of that show, him and the end of that show, dude. And Claire Daines is like. Off the charts.

Did you see that show she did with Jesse Eisenberg? What's that? There's another series she did. Homeland? No, no, no. It was like, Fleishman, something with Fleischman. Fleischman is in trouble?

Yeah, Fleishman. No. Yeah, she's incredible in that, too. There's a scene where she's basically having a mental breakdown, and you're watching, and you're like, this can't be acting. Yeah, it's that show. Fleischman is in trouble. Yeah. It's on FX?

I never even heard of this. Yeah. It's really good? Yeah, I enjoyed it, and I enjoyed her at the end. There's one scene that, like, really rocked me, where I just fully, I mean, that's just, like, I just saw this movie Hamnet. I don't know if you guys saw that or not. No. that's what I love about movie

so Jesse Buckley in this movie it's basically playing like the most difficult role ever the loss and all that stuff and I fully Joe full I'm watching and sitting there fully believing that this person is going through this do you know what I mean? When you do that

when I believe that you're actually going through it I mean that's it that's and like her performance in that movie is so she's so good dude dude in the clear names of Jesse Buckley now Jesse, Jesse. No, Claire Daines. Claire Daines and Jesse. Yeah, they're both amazing. But Claire Daines is so good

in The Beast and Me. There's moments where her fucking lips are trembling. No, no, it's nuts, dude. She's touched. Her eyes are darting back. She's on a other level. Right. She's touched. Yes. No question. No question. Yeah. She locks in in this very crazy way. She was great in fucking Homeland, too.

Yeah. I never saw Homeland. Oh, it's great. It's really good. She just locks in. She locks in in this very strange. way where you fucking 100% believer yeah like believe it behind the eyes the greatest yeah I mean that's what that's the heroin for me in this industry it's like yeah when you're around and you're creating this thing and it's just and all of a sudden it's like whoa yeah yeah like holy shit it's happening but it's like I had this conversation with Ethan Hawk I was because I was

asking him about but I felt like that with Will just real you know that vampire scene that's not because I was I was operating it right I I don't know how you felt watching it the scene when he was on stage at the very end yes yes yes I was like, I fully believed it. Yes. And then when I went to the audience and they're just like, because they didn't know what the fuck's going on. Right, right.

Like that was one of those moments I had on this movie where I was like, oh, my man is locked. Yeah. The fucking. Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%. It was very uncomfortable for me. You felt that.

Yes. Yeah, 100%. Definitely. I have this conversation with Ethan Hawk about that. I go, what is happening when I believe someone? Like, I was talking about the scene in, That movie with him and Julia Roberts, about the end of the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.

There's a scene with him and Kevin Bacon. Yeah, when they go to the house. And also, there's three guys in that scene. Oh, my God. He's amazing. Yeah, from Moonlight, and he's been tons of stuff. Green Book. I know him.

Yeah, Jamie will pull it up. I can't, I'll fuck his name of if I pronounce it. Sorry. What is it? Sorry, I want my working. That's it, Marshall Ali. That's it. Mahershala Ali.

Yes. I believe it. I know that's Kevin Bacon. I know that's Ethan Hawke. I believe he's going to shoot him. Yeah, no question. I believe it. Yeah.

I go, what is that? Like, what is going on? I go, because is it, it's almost like a form of hypnosis. Yes. And he's like, yes. Yeah, that's it. You have to actually be there. You have to actually be there.

Like, yeah, you're saying the lines you're supposed to say. But what's happening is like you really are there. You really believe it. And if you don't believe it, the audience doesn't believe it. And we've all been there before. Like, one time I ate an edible, and I went to go see one of those Marvel movies. And in the middle, I was really high. And while I was watching the middle, I was like, this guy's acting.

You know, it's just like, it just made, you know, when you're really sensitive and tuned in. I get angry because I'm like, I want to go on the ride. I'm like the best watcher because I want to, that thing starts. I want to go on the ride. I want to go on the ride. Yes. Like him and Denzel in training day. Yeah.

Like that, there's a few scenes where you're like, okay, this is really, this is happening. Yes. Yeah, dude. Oh, yeah. This is really happening. Like, this is real. Yeah. Even Hawks so good in that movie.

Yeah. He's great. Yeah, he's great and everything. But he's sick in that movie. But he's also, when you talk to him, you realize, okay, this is an actual artist. Yeah, he's a unique dude. Yeah. Yeah.

He's not a guy who's like trying to be a movie star. No, no, no. an artist that does movies. Yeah, but I don't know how many people, I don't know, it's like how many comedians who just want to be famous are going to I don't even know how you could do it. You have to love it. It's just too hard.

That's not enough of a fuel. It's not, it's not. That's just not enough fuel. It won't take you far enough. It's just not of a fuel to keep doing it. Right. Because if you don't love it, I think you would find it monotonous and maybe boring and tedious and inconsequential.

You're going on a road trip with an eighth of a tank of gas. You're not going to make it. You're not going to make it. You're stomping on the gas and trying to pull out of the parking lot, but it's not that. Yeah. It's a long drive. And my experience in the 26 years I've been in this is like most of the people, if not all, that I've worked, but they love it. Yes.

They love it. Otherwise, yeah. If you want to be great as something, you have to love it. Yeah. I can't imagine. Yeah. Because it's not even that you want, yes, you want to be great at it, but you just love doing it. Right.

That's it. Right. And the love is how it becomes great. And then the fear is when you get famous or people, you just, you just, you just, you get famous or people get popular early, that can be confusing because you start to have, like, I have to maintain a certain, you start getting careful. Like, I was thinking about when you said, like, what is that thing when it's just, it's hypnosis?

The key to that is willing to fail. That's what I learned as an actor is like, oh, yeah, just don't take it too seriously. Here we know, we're rolling the camera. We can, let's just, here, let's see what happens. I'm going to go out on a limb. Maybe it won't work. But like, yeah, be willing to, like, completely fail. Yeah, willing to fail.

And the minute you do that, it's like, oh. And all of a sudden there's this reservoir of space in your head and your soul to actually create even more of an imaginary circumstances. Now, if you haven't done your work, you're fucked anyway. But like, but once you're there, it's like, once you're like, oh, yeah, everybody, we could just fail. Let's just, let's just fail. Does that make sense? It's 100% make sense. It makes sense.

It makes sense because the only way you're going to really find out what it is is to like try it all kinds of ways. Yes. Yeah. That we, I was just having the conversation, you know, Brian Cowan, our mutual friend. He texted me last night. He's like, I got a new bit and I just ate a dick. I have to go up on stage with it tonight. It's fucking terrible.

He goes, but I know there's something in there. And we were talking on the phone right before the show. He's like, dude, my fucking new bitch is bombed. It ate dick last night. I don't know what to do. But I know there's something there. It's like you've got to be willing. to bomb. You gotta be willing to eat a dick.

If you don't, I don't know how. Yeah, I don't know any of you. If you're careful, you're, it's over. You can't. Careful is death. I talked to Chris Rock once and he told me that that bit that he did that was one of his all-time classic blit bits. I love black people. I hate N-word. Right, right. He goes, that bit bombed for like a year. Right. He couldn't get it to work. He's like, I know there's something in there, but I have to find it. Yeah. And it took a fucking year. We're talking about a year of going up at the store, going up at the improv,

going here, going to the laugh factor, going here, going there, fuck, pulling your hair out, fuck. Trying to figure it out. A fucking year, man. And when you're Chris rock, you're already Chris Rock. And you, you know, you can talk about getting your dick sucked, you can talk about something. People

laugh. And you're like, I think there's something here. I got to grind this fucking thing down until I get an edge to it. and it took them a year. Yeah. Like you have to be willing to fuck around. And to suffer through all that.

Yeah. And enjoy the suffering. You start to like, once you do it enough, fail enough in front of people, it starts to be easier. Yeah. And then you come out on the other end. You're like, whew. Yeah. And I'm still alive.

I'm still alive. Yeah. Glad I did it. This wasn't as big as I thought. No. And then you have to do it again. That's, and then you put out a special. And then once you put out a special, you start from scratch.

And then you're fucking terrified. Because now you're a famous comedian with, no material or terrible material and you have to figure out a way to make it good and that plays in what i was talking about like when you have when you've achieved something and then there's that pressure you put on yourself that it has to be that good or better right and then all of a sudden you're in a different game than then just like the doing i think that that play it's safe game is the scariest game or yeah or somehow think that it's it's somehow that controllable because really all this stuff we're talking about it's really kind of out of our control

You know, when it's working, I don't feel in control at all. Right. You feel like a passenger. Yeah. And that's, by the way, that's the high. Uh-huh. There's nothing fun about controlling everything. There's no fun in that.

But when you're like, whoa, wait a second, what's happening? Like, the zone is being a passenger. Yeah. It's like being an observer of something. Sports too. I think it works in every field. It's like they talk about it. You know, it's like, yeah, that's it.

Oh, yeah. And it just takes a ton, a year of doing the thing. You know, because there are moments that I can even think of where Because you do think, that's okay, it doesn't matter. There are a couple where, like, actually, if this moment doesn't work out, like, it may not be over, but you're definitely going to go down along the ladder. Yes. You know, and it's like, okay, and that pressure, you know, yeah.

You got to love it. How do you pick a project? Like, how do you decide what you want to do, and how much time do you spend deliberating on it? Because you're in a unique position where you can do a lot of things. Yeah. You can kind of do whatever you want. So it's like what gets your juices going?

Like how do you decide what to do? It's all about something igniting in me that, like, for example, when I was little, I thought, like, I was obsessed with Vietnam. I was obsessed as a kid. With what? Vietnam, the war in Vietnam. And my math teacher was a recon in Vietnam, Bill Calm, and I was like obsessed with this guy. and he was fascinating, fascinating. He was a pole vulture, and that was his cue for the chalkboard,

was one of his broken pole vault sticks. Oh, wow. And he would always, and he always wore sweatpants, and he would lean against the thing. So all day long, half of his sweatpants would be full of chalk. And he would always smoke cigarettes on the athletic field and stand on the bench. And so he'd always be perched there.

And like my dad, he would never put out his butts. He would always save them. So he always smelled like, tobacco his hands. And then this other guy, his father came and talked about this book Guns Up, which is an incredible book about Machine Gunner in Vienna. And then I asked

my dad if I could go to the Military Academy. Like, I would do something, and then like, you know, thin red line destroyed me. The Terrence Malick movie and Apocalypse Now I was like obsessed with and all these films. And so I always wanted to do something about playing. I always felt

like I had a love enough and an interest enough that playing a soldier would be something. thing that I felt like I had a reservoir. So that led me to Chris. Wow. That was that. It's all specific things. It was just Joseph Merrick, you know, the elephant man.

Like when I was, I had no money and I took it, I got a one, I'm tower air, went to London and like tracked his steps at Hospital Road and where he went out just because I was obsessed with this guy, Joseph Merrick, the elephant man. And then it wound up, you know, then making it, you know, doing the play at Broadway where they originated, you know. And then Starsborn was really about, I just love, I always wanted to direct, I don't think I dreamt that big, but I really realized what I loved about the process of the industry amendment is the making of it. I never felt like I fit in just acting. I never felt like I thought, like the first, like you, like I went to L.A. with a job.

Like I went to grad school in New York. I thought I'd just be a theater actor if I was lucky. If I could make a living as an actor, this is a home run. My dad was terrified, you know, because he came from North. Philadelphia, only got to come out of the neighborhood, kind of. There were a couple other guys. But then he became a stockbroker, and then his son's going to do acting and be $70 grand in debt in grad school. You know, Fannie may thank God, but like, you know, and I didn't know if I was going to pay it off. But that said, we grew up like upper middle class, but still I was like,

I'm paying for grad school, it took a loan out. And then, so he was terrified. And then I got a job on this show, Alias, it brought me to L.A. But the minute I got there, I didn't know anything about check the gate. I didn't know nothing. You know what I mean? I didn't nothing. I just loved movies. And so I was obsessed, Joe. Obsessed. I would go in the editing room. And I found out, like, very hard when I went there. I got very depressed. I was like, this is high school all over again. Me too. That's exactly how I felt. I was like, what the, I mean, I could, I went to grad school. I'm in New York City. There's guys that I could relate to and talk about movies. I was in heaven. Then I get this job that I think is going to be the Holy Grail, and I'm miserable.

living in the first floor of this woman's house just like it was crazy I didn't know I could be this depressed I mean depressed like I need water and like the idea of going to the right aid on on sunset

and Fairfax was like too much yeah and yeah that was rough it's depressing yeah when you first go especially when you're in that cold weird environment and no one just no

and I was on a show that was awesome and everybody's exploding and like No one. It was like, who's this guy? So not only that, I'm there and everybody's like, you know, I'm just like, you know, a ghost. Right, right, right. So there's that. So your insecurity is just, you know, is just, you know, astronomical. It was for me, it was also one of the first times that I ever moved somewhere where I didn't know anyone. Me too. I knew nobody. J.J. Abrams hired me and then Berkey, this guy was the only guy that I knew that he introduced me to. And then I met Jennifer Garner was like the second person I met. And then, yeah, I didn't know. anybody. It's weird. Yeah. I remember I was on the set of the show. Brian Klugman. I didn't know that guy

who's like one of my best friends on night. You know Brian Klugman? No, I know who he is though. Yeah, he's we grew up since we were like nine. Oh wow. Yeah. I was on the set of the show and a girl gave me a hug and I realized no one had touched me in weeks. And the hug she gave me, I was like, oh, it was like my battery got recharged. Like I didn't realize I needed a hug. Yeah. Isolation. People say, do you need a hug? hug. Like, I never thought, like, nobody needs a hug. Right. No, I fucking needed a hug. I was very similar. She's like, give me a hug.

She hug me. I was like, oh, thank you. Yeah. I felt so good. It's weird. It's a weird feeling. It's a hell of a place to go. Oh, it is like, wow. Yeah. Yeah, I had a hard time. Well, the whole environment of L.A. is so strange because you have the primary industry. If it's not the primary industry, it's most certainly. driving all other industries is a bunch of people trying to make it.

Right? So it's a bunch of people with a hole in their soul. They need to fill up with other people's attention. And they're coming there to try to get attention. They're coming there to try to make it. And the one thing that they have to do is audition. So you have to try to be accepted by someone. So you'd be judged.

You go in there and you get rejected over and over. over and over again, which just fuels the same, like, need that's inside you. It, like, makes it even worse. And everybody's concentrating on this one thing, like, trying to get success. And then you realize, like, oh, my doctor wanted to be an actor. Oh, the waiter's an actor. Like, everyone's trying to do this thing where you have to get chosen. So then people calculate how they behave and talk and what their political philosophy is and their life philosophy is based on

becoming ingratiating themselves with casting directors and with executives like getting these people to like you and then these people realize that so they have like they're controlling the twigs that work the puppet strings and it just becomes this very strange environment of a complete lack of any like real critical thinking and any real like embracing any alternative perspectives on things everyone it's the golden moment. Triumph on the podium, golden hand. But with Corona Serro, golden moments go beyond the Winter Olympics. They're enjoying sunsets, time outside, reconnecting with nature, and laughs shared with friends. For every golden moment at the Winter Olympic Games, enjoy your own with Corona Serro, zero percent

alcohol and a source of vitamin D. Corona Serro, the official non-alcoholic beer of Milano Cortina 2026. It's just trying to align their stars correctly so that they can make it. I mean, that's weird. My experience was more because I went there with a job, right? Right. And, you know, New York for me, I don't know, I went on 2,000 auditions. Like, I remember when I first booked a job with Sex and the City, I booked some commercials

and extra work, which was great. But the first job I booked, I remember I was like, I was terrified because I got to the point where I was a doorman at a hotel and I would audition. and that was a great life. And if I got a callback, it was great. But then when I had to do it, I remember literally like, whoa, whoa, I have to do. Like, wait, wait, what? I'm actually working.

I actually have to do it? What was it? What was the first thing you had to do? I played Jake the downtown smoker and the sex in the city with Sarah Jessica Park, and I couldn't drive standard and never learned how to drive standards. They sent me to Odell's driving school. And all I thought about was like, don't have her head hit the dashboard when we pull into the corner. And I still messed it up and they had another guy do it.

And then I just had to do this thing, you know, when the camera's hearing you go, you okay? you know, like you're pulling in. Yeah. But I worked so hard on it. No, but L.A. for me, it was, I think it, for me, at least, was the geography. Going from New York City where, you know, you can go to Bar 6, which is on 6th Avenue. No matter who you are, you go there are a couple friends. Like, you just feel like you're in a cool place or a place that's vibrant.

L.A., it's like, if I wasn't at work, I was in that first floor of the house, or my car, rental car. Yes. And that was it. And the world, which I could feel because I was seeing posters everywhere and billboards, which I had never been, except for driving to Atlantic City, you know, and seeing who was going to, you know, going to be, you know, as a residency. That, it was really the stimulus, the stimuli of that city aesthetically and how compartmentalized it is.

So what I felt like, like it's, if you're not in, you're out. Right. And I just remember thinking like somebody somewhere in this town is having a ball right now. And it's not me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And then that just leads to how can I cope, you know, and like, you know, not getting into bars, clubs, you know, and like girls not really looking at you. You know, and all that stuff.

And all of a sudden it's like seventh grade and I'm 25 years old. And it's like, and I should be happy because I paid, by the end of this year I'm going to pay off my student loan. but I'm fucking miserable and what's wrong with me but to me it was the geography of it New York City is so wonderful because no matter what you're thinking like when I did The Alpha Man

I would take the subway to 42nd Street and my preparation for the play was getting off the subway going to the theater because the amount of thousands of people that are forcing me to be present was wonderful it was like doing a 12 minute relaxation

because you're just it's life bram brum brum and you're like get through you know and then by the time you get to this theater you're like okay you know but l.A it's like you're in your car and the thing you pull up to the studio the thing to that you walk and you know and then all of a sudden it's like okay hold on a second yeah that thing that new york has that l.a doesn't have is all walks of life are all intertwined you're walking down the street together there's a billionaire and a homeless guy and a fucking, you know, near-do-well and an office worker and everyone's walking

to where they go and they walk into restaurants and they get in cabs and they get on the subway and everybody intermingles. Where in L.A., it's you get in your car, you drive to a place and then you go to your house and you don't ever like walk around. And if some weird interaction happened on set or someone said something, you're like, oh, then you're just a home thinking about it, right? Do you know what I mean? There's no like, well, I went on and did this after that, you know, and I actually took up golf, which is crazy.

And I would play at the, Malibu had this public golf course and I would say, I got to do something because I'm an early morning. I wake up early. I've always had. So I'm up at like 5.30. And so I did like a 647 tea time with these two guys. And that was actually nice. I did that for six months and I would play. But like you just try to find something that, you know, I just need to interact and do something else.

Something that makes you human. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I have to say, like, I did. I do love, oh, interesting. Yeah. Michael Vartan, who was on Alias, huge.

Did you ever play pool with him? No. Oh, he would go all the time. No kidding. Yeah. Oh, I wish I met him. Yeah, he would go all the time. You had that one place that had like tons of, I'm sure you know it.

Probably Hollywood Billiards. Maybe, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Hollywood Billiards was the spot. Yeah. Yeah, it's in New York, that was a big thing for me, too. It was like almost hijacked my comedy career because I was doing, I was playing pool like eight hours a day.

I was playing in tournaments. I was traveling around. to go into tournaments. And when I came to L.A., that was, like, one of the few things that made sense to me. Like, oh, I get it. Pool players.

I know pool players. I can hang out with them. They're normal people. That's a great asset you had there. Having something like that, martial arts was always like that. Having something where you have something that you do. Because if I was only doing acting,

I'd lose your mind. I'd go crazy. And I went there and I fell in love with the movie making, getting back to my original part, and I would go and so I'd ask JJ Abrams if I could sit in the editing rooms. So I would be,

basically shoot my one scene a week, which was like, hey, how was your trips? And they, you know, I didn't have a big part. Right. And then, but I would spend the rest of the day in the editing rooms. And then I would ask Ken Olin, who was so generous that one of the showrunners, if I could just shadow him and just be around all the time. And I would take, and I would take everybody's dailies home. Back then it was in VHS tapes. It was Carl Lumley, Victor Garber, Ron Rifkin, all these great, Victor and Ron were from New York, these great New York actors that came out. And I would just watch their dailies and learn. You know, just learn. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And that's when I was like, I love this.

Like, I fucking love this. That's what I love. I love when people love things. Yeah. And I do, man. Like, I can't get enough of it. I am 100% fascinated with people that love what they do. I can watch people make furniture.

There's a guy that I watch on YouTube who just makes desks and tables out of like, what is it called live? What is it called when they take it and then has the actual outline of the, wood. What does it call? It takes slabs. He takes like slabs of walnut. It makes these tables and he narrates while he's building it and describes the process of it and how he's trying to precisely align all these joints and these, you know, he's like, he's got pegs and holes. Yeah, it's the best. Slide it into play. Live edge slab. That's it. Live edge. That's the other great thing about what I get to do. So you do a movie like a sniper and you get to be with these people who

have dedicated their lives to this thing and you're watching them do it. Like in Maestro, I got to go to the London Symphony Orchestra, each person, since they were four, have been doing this, and they're all unicorns. Do you know what I mean? And stars born, all these musicians. It's like even burn, I got to go to these restaurants and study under these people.

I mean, that's the thing that's like, that's the greatest thing in the world. Yeah. It's nuts. It's nuts. And like even this movie, the access I got to have to the cellar and all the stuff and all the people.

It was like, I learned so much more than I ever knew. But it expands you as a human. Oh, no question. You know more about what it is to be a human. Like, oh, there's a human who just plays the flute. Yeah. You know, we were talking in the green room last night about Andre 3000. Was that what was the name?

Yeah. I'm saying it right? I almost said 5,000, but that's wrong. Andre 3,000 from Outcast. He plays the flute now. Yeah. That's all he does. He plays the flute. Like a friend of mine ran into him in downtown in Colorado.

He said he was in Denver. just walking around with his flute. And no one was bothering him. And he's like, holy shit. He's just fucking playing the flute. Yeah. That's a guy who loves what he does. Just, I mean, apparently he made an entire album

where he just plays the flute. Yeah. And he's just like not into doing anything else. Yeah. Just into like being an artist and playing the flute. Yeah. It's dope. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, fuck, I wish I was that guy. But you'd seem to be. I mean, you did, you know, hunting and, billiards and already you've got like two up on most people besides what you already do but I do things that are that I think are gonna help me figure out who I am and I think the only way you really figure out who you are is to do difficult things yeah and when you're doing difficult

things you kind of learn about yourself you learn about oh why don't I have this desire to take a shortcut why don't I go with the long why don't do it the right way like what it is what is it about getting good at something? I mean, I think me at my base, I'm very lazy. I think everybody is. I mean. It's a default setting. Yeah, no question.

Default setting for humans. Gagins talks about it. Yeah. Like, Gagins talks about, like, one of the things about Gagins is he always talks about how when he was fat and lazy. Like, he used to be fat and lazy. Now he's like the most disciplined human that's ever lived. And he forced himself to become that. Yeah.

But he's default, he goes, he goes, even now, he goes, sometimes I look at my shoes for like a half hour performance. Like a half hour of foot pole's motherfuckers on. Yeah. I mean, I'll be doing something during the day and I'm like, I can't wait until my daughter's in bed and I'm upstairs and I'm just laying down on the couch and I'm just whatever's on. Yeah. And that's my goal for the day.

I'm like, what's going on here? Sometimes that's good though. Yeah. I view that as a reset. I think it's important to just sit and reset. Yeah, I don't kill myself over it. But I do recognize that there is a feeling. But then I look at the sort of landscape.

I'm like, well, it's hard for me to defunders. to categorize myself as lazy if I just look at the facts. Yeah. You know, but I do feel, and it's what you're saying, it's that default setting. But I think with everybody, it's like normal for human beings to seek comfort because it's difficult to acquire, especially tribal societies back when we were just hunter and gatherers

and just trying to figure out how to stay alive, like the idea of relaxation was impossible. Yeah. And if you could get there's no time. Oh, that's what I want. I want to stop chasing antelope. Just fucking take a nap. Or maybe they found a relaxed state in that because when you're doing those things, you know, for a long period of time, I feel like I am relaxed in that.

But it just takes a lot of work. Yeah. You know, a lot of over and over. But the true high is when you're doing these things where it first started out and you were horrible at it. And then all of a sudden, you're going out on a hunt or whatever. And you're like, I'm relaxed. I'm never relaxed on a hunt. Well, I've never hunted, so I can't relate to that.

It's not a relaxing thing. I mean, it is a fulfilling and enriching thing. I think I mean physically relaxed. Like, your body's not tense. Like, because the one thing I do, you can't shoot a gun if you're tense. Right. Impossible to hit what you want. Right.

That's a beautiful thing about shooting is like, you know, on the exhale and stop. Like all that stuff, I was like, oh, this is, I had no idea. Right. Because the first couple times, like, just shoot it. See how you do. Well, just think about like the tiny movements that would deviate the path of the bullet over, you know, a lot of these guys are shooting a mile. No, it's nuts. I remember the first couple times with no training.

I mean, it wasn't even near the target. You know, I was like, oh, yeah, this is a whole. And all you're doing is this. That's it? It's squeezing a trigger. And how much is involved in that, like the synchronization of the mind, the eyes, the breathing. But even the recoil, I remember the first time I didn't have my boot was, I was like, my boot was up and not like that. And they didn't say anything, you know, and then the recoiled through my shoulder down to that.

I was like, oh, yeah. Now I understand why you do that. is that it all just goes out. All those things, it's like, wow. But I think through those things, you learn more about who you are. Through difficult things and getting better at difficult things, that's where you learn more about who you are. And you realize, like, oh, I can kind of apply this mindset to everything.

And you see it with your children. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah, my daughter who loves to draw, if she sees somebody who's drawing. I have a daughter that loves to draw, too. She's really talented. So I bet if my daughter drew with your children, daughter, she would stop because she would see how good she is and she gets so frustrated. This just happened the other day.

And, you know, and she'll just rip up what she's doing, which is wonderful. I have it right here. So she, this, I saved this. I was like, don't rip it up. She did this yesterday. And I was like, don't rip it up. I'm going to make it my bookmark. Ah, that's cool.

But I'm watcher process of like dealing with difficulty. And it's like, and just trying to explain like it's, it's okay. Like, you know, and being frustrated is okay. But I could see myself and her and what everybody goes through. But isn't that awesome when you're watching your kid go through these things? Yeah. It's just the greatest thing in the world. It's awesome watching people get obsessed with things and then progressing.

Yeah. And when it's your own child, it's even more insane. It's amazing. It's amazing. It is cool. Yeah. Like cartwheel took her forever to learn it, but now she could do it. And I was like, you just keep at it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's learning through someone else's eyes that happens to be your child is one of the most magical things ever. is magical because it's it's it's it's it's a different kind of happiness oh yeah one that I never knew was I was capable of love I'm so glad I had kids late because I'm 51 I just turned 51 a couple days ago and I had my daughter's eight can be nine in March and like I just got lucky that

I was able to be in a place in my career that I could choose like you said what I do and work from home and just I'm just there through for all of it and it's awesome as much as I love the heroin of being in the moment, you know, in acting and a great shot or whatever you're doing and everything's together. There's like seven of those every day with your kid. Right. Like seven.

We were eating dinner last night at a restaurant. And by the way, she was so excited I'm coming here because she hears it all that. I was like, Daddy tomorrow. But we're sitting here in a restaurant and I'm just looking at her and a little, she got a little hat on. And I was like, and I'm like, isn't this the greatest thing in the world?

And she's like, yeah, it's the greatest thing. And I'm like, that's it. This is it. That's it. It's crazy. It's like free jolts. Yeah. Right? You just get these free jolts through it. And you never know when they're going to come.

Right. It's like walking up the stairs together. It's not like in the moment. Like it just happens. It's the, it's the best. Yeah. It's a very different experience. And I feel bad for people that never get to feel it. It's one of the few things. Like, I don't think everyone should have children and I'm not that guy that says. Yeah, me neither. If you don't have kids, you don't have a life. I don't believe that. Everybody's different. everybody's different.

And I think we all need to respect that. Everyone's different. But, man, for me, I shudder at the thought of being who I am right now if I had no children. I don't know if I'd be alive. I would be different. Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't be nearly as compassionate. Dave Chappelle said something to me once that was brilliant.

He said, not only have children, as having children changed the amount of love I have, he goes, it's changed my capacity for love. Yes. I'm like, oh. And understand everything, everything. There's like before and after. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It's true, all the things they say. Oh, yeah. It's just true. It is true. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. It also made me think of everyone as a baby. I used to think of people as static. I used to think I meet Bradley Cooper.

He's 51. That's a 51-year-old guy. But when I, you know, had children and raised children, you start saying, oh, this is a baby that became a person. And it's just life experiences, genetics, environment, all these different factors. Here you are now. But you are a product of this path and this journey that you've taken through life. And I give people way more grace because of that. Yeah.

I give them way more charitable, way more compassionate, way more understanding of even people that suck. You know, when I meet someone that sucks, I'm like, I wish I could have met them when they were five and see whatever. it was and maybe to help them and it's hard for me to hate people that that is that is um not served me so well over the years but ultimately it has but it's yeah it's hard for me not to um feel just any other human being how hard is to be alive right it is there's just like I don't know I was I think it was hardwired in me I has nothing to do with like anything just like yeah it's hard for me to even people that are like mean to me you know it's hard for me to like stay mad at them.

Yeah. My wife said something the other night. As I get older. As you get older. Yeah. Yes. When you're young, it's like fuck that. No, yeah, yeah.

I'll never forget it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna remember that. Yeah. I saw your true face. Yeah. Yeah.

It's true. But yeah, as I get older, oh, no question. My daughter was talking about some horrible story in the news of someone who fucked up their whole life and all these different things.

And my wife listens to her and goes, it's hard to be a person. Yeah, man. It's hard to be a person. being a person is hard. And we were all just sitting there like nodding our head. Like, yeah, yeah, you can fuck this up. And we're all going to fuck it up at one point in time.

And maybe when you think that you're never going to fuck it up again, you fuck it up the worst you've ever fucked it up. And you're like, how did I do that? How did I do that? I thought I had it together and I fucked it all up worse than I've ever fucked it up before. Because nothing stays stagnant. Nothing. Everything's changing all the time.

And it's just hard to manage all these different things. It's hard to manage your emotion. It's hard to manage conflict. It's hard to manage relationships. It's hard to manage life, work, balance, pressure. It's hard. It's not easy. And even in the macro or a simple level, it's just hard to be existing in a world where you really, we don't know anything.

Right. And the only thing you do know, it's not going to last. And you're going to be gone. And you're bombed on by bad news. The news is just bad. It's all the time. It's people getting shot and run over and war and war and war. and war and bombings and invasions and,

it's just exhausting. Yeah. And that's like in the background of your mind constantly when you're going about your day. It's like there's this fucking algorithm that you're being fed. It's like, whoa. Yeah. And at the same time, it's a miracle to me that the democratization of information that we live in now, that you can choose points of view to learn about what people think in a way that when I was growing up,

three stations, news, there wasn't, you know, there's something wonderful about it too, you know. I've just talking about this the other day, like, you know, everybody's algorithms telling him, no, I'm not on social media. So the truth is, I don't know what the fuck. You're not on at all? No, I don't really know what the fuck I'm talking about. That's amazing. So I should do it for two.

My friend was like, go on for two weeks, and he's right, and I'm going to do it. Just to experience it. What is that experience? All I have is that one TikTok moment for 20 minutes where I was like, I gotta stay away because I'll never leave. You've never had a desire to get on it? I do.

No, I do. Just the same way I don't put a television in my bedroom, which is like, if I do, I may never get out of bed. Yeah. You know, it's fear. Yeah. I was like, I don't know, just all that stuff. I just want to learn to the people, people.

You know, the world gets smaller. I feel included. Because the main thing is like I just don't want to feel alone, right? And to me, it feels like social media is a place where you don't feel alone. Because you're just learning about it. And there's all these people talking to you. Yeah, but you do feel alone too.

Ultimately, because it's the drip as opposed to what we got back to when we first started talking. It's the illusion of it. Yes. You know, if it's taken out. But it is worthwhile, too. It depends on how you contextualize it, right? And like anything in life. Yeah, I think there's a value to it for sure.

Oh, no question. By the way, the fact that I could watch your show and then go on triggering on me. And the guy who went to the prisons and you're the KKK guy and the guy who's the musician blew my mind. And I learned all this stuff in those three hours just because I chose to, you know, and that's one of the great things about your show is I can feel your curiosity. And then I'm learning from your curiosity what things that I would never normally know how to go on to. Yeah, that's the most valuable gift of this show for me. It's the best. It's the best. Is that I get to pick who I talk to.

so I only talk to people that I'm fascinated by or someone who's interesting to me or something like, oh, this is gonna be cool. Like I don't go, oh, I gotta do this one. Right. There's never that. It's always like, ooh. Yeah, what is it?

How do you fucking study that? How'd you get involved in this? Like, where'd you learn that? And I'm like glued to it. Yeah. It's not like it's in the background. I'm like, bam. Yeah.

You know, because you're so interested. And it gets back to like the acting. If you're really interested or not, then it's going to be hard for me to listen to watch it. Yeah, that's why I think the only reason why it works. Because there was some complications. For sure, Joe. You can't sit there and say like, here's the pitch.

You're sitting in a room, me and whoever, three hours, basically unedited. They're like, that's not really where we're at. No, no, the most people will listen to it. Sorry. Right? But it's like, no, the nuclear fuel is, no, I'm actually going to be curious. about what I actually want to learn. And then it's like, oh, so we're actually going to watch two human beings talk to each other?

Oh, that's kind of great. Yeah. But that's your nuclear power. That's why the show is so magical. Well, this, the only, I mean, the crazy thing is there was no plan. And the way you don't edit it, the way that the pauses are there. You know, even so much as when you're like, I go take a piss. And then, like, it's back.

I'm always like, whoa, what just happened? Yeah. Weren't we supposed to go to the bathroom with them? Do you know what I mean? Like I'm so sucked down. I'm so in the room. Maybe we should start doing that. Maybe you start following people to the bathroom.

But you know what I mean? It sucks like, wait, what? Yeah. Wait, what do you mean? How come it just, where'd the time go? Wait, what just happened? Right. Yeah.

Because you create that room that I'm in the room with you. Podcasting is weird because it kind of just appeared and no one thought anybody wanted it. It's fascinating. I mean, think about it. I do think about this a lot, especially because I've watched your show in the last eight months. is like in the world that's moving into this one direction, there's this other deep, deep need for connection. Yeah.

You know, and then this is one of the examples, this deep, you know, live theater, live stand-up. You know, we still do need to communicate. That hasn't gone away. In that way, in a carnal, not carnal, but in a human-to-human interaction. And I love AI. I talk to AI with my daughter. I think it's dope. I think it's fascinating, fascinating.

But it's not the same yet yet. No, it's interesting. Very interesting. It's like I use it as a companion, like a writing companion. So what I do is I have like I put my phone up and I got on like a little kickstand. Right. And I put perplexity on when I write. So I'm writing about like Mayan and Aztec civilizations and what happened when they got inviagnation.

and as I'm writing, I ask questions. Like, how many people did Cortez come with? 600. How many muskets did they have? 13? They conquered the entire fucking country of Mexico with 13 muskets? And you find out things. And so I use it like as someone I'm asking questions.

It's all-knowing, you know, entity that sits on the desk with me. And I just, and I do it always with my voice. I just press the little button. I do it with the voice too. I do. I love talking to him. It's incredible. It's so good at recognizing what I'm saying. It's a weird name. Like, to know Chitlan. Like, I got to spell that one. Right. Because it's not going to understand what that temple is. But once you use it that way, it becomes like a genius that you're hanging out with and talking to.

I haven't gotten to that level. I go like, how was your New Year's? Do you do that to it? You asked the AI? Yeah, I'm like, I'm curious how they're going to process and like how they're going to try to communicate. Well, it also, it changes and becomes more like what you're asking from it. Right. Which is weird. Yeah. Yeah, you certainly use your rhythms and vernacular.

Yeah. So CES, the Consumer Electronics Show, they just highlighted a sex robot that's connected to AI. And I'm like, this is the end. This is where it's going to, like, get really fucking weird. when you can actually purchase a companion that interacts with you. And have you seen it, Jamie? You've seen the new one?

Nope. I'm looking at it right now. Let's see. It's fucking weird, man. It's fucking weird because this is the thing that everyone's been afraid of and that this is coming. Right. That you're going to have an artificial human being that instead of learning like, oh, when

I act shitty, this person doesn't like me. When I act nice, they like me. I feel good. They feel good. When I say something nice to them and you see them light up, it makes me feel good. It makes them feel good. You hug them. Everybody feels good.

It's like we're learning to interact and communicate with each other. But there's a lot of people that aren't doing that right now. They're just at home. They're fucking playing video games. They're interacting with people only online and they don't get contact with the outside world. So this is, yeah, Lovens, the AI doll. So like right now, that doesn't look real. It's not more than your average AI companion.

Like basically, but what they're not telling you is you're going to fuck this thing. That's what's weird. It's like, go back to the options, co-worker, gym crush, goth, raver, or trad wife. I'm the woman of your dreams. I can be more than one version of myself for you. Whether you want to role play an exciting scenario or design a whole new personality, your wish is my command. Well, you're never going to develop a real personality then. Like kids now are so fucked, touch me like you mean it and I'll respond.

With built in sensors in my thighs, breast, butt and vagina, feeling your caress brings out a moan. Like, bro, this is dark. Like that's the actual sex robot. That thing you're looking at right there. What? My soft textured skin. My supple curves. The tiny sensual details of my body.

Everything about me is meant to feel natural. This is fucking creepy, man. Because all the things that are a part of being a human being that are designed to emphasize and enhance our interaction with each other. and this mutually beneficial, cooperative environment of a community, they're all going to go away. You're going to have this thing that loves you no matter what

and does whatever you want it to, no matter what. And you're going to have a whole nation of fucking sociopaths that only interact with their AI companion. Yeah, maybe. But whenever these things, like, you know, thinking about AI, and I read this great book called The Maniac by Benjamin Labatou to talk to about,

about Jan Newman and like it's I stopped fearing AI and it's thought about like it's just like you know there's so much I don't know the older I get I don't know anything I just keep knowing less right and it feels like that's if that's the evolution that that's the evolution there's so much disparate communication now porn is such a huge thing it's just another level of porn you know it's a carnal level of porn really and but when I think about me as a human being that's really the only litmus test is like I'm constantly like is it's a this person telling me what they really think, you know, is this real? Right. I think that they're, at least if I was doing that, right, and I was sitting at home, there'd be a part of me that knows that I'm, again, I'm controlling all of that. Uh-huh. And that's not what really makes me feel serene. You know what it's like?

Do you understand what I'm saying? It's like playing a video game on God mode where you can't die. Right. They're no fun. And you know what? For some reason, I never, video games. I had Nintendo Tecmo Bowl, you know, double dribble, but I never, Zelda, you know, but I never got it. I just never got into video games.

I never want to control everything. It's like I want to be in the thing. That's surprising. And I'm having to recalculate and understand why I feel this way. Yeah. So I don't know if it'll, I think, I think the thing that maybe will change society more everything is just the lack of jobs and how we find purpose and life. you know, is a huge what that transition

civilization will be. Yeah. But this feels like just another progression of our escape through porn in terms of the sexual, which does affect our intimacy with our partners in a massive way, because your brain is cycling back through your that rush, whatever was released in your brain from that other thing.

Now you're with this person and it's not the same you know, markers of stimuli. So you're like, how are my you know, that's where it fucks it to that's where that that I can understand that and why it's not healthy for me to look at porn because then I'm it affects my intimacy well they really say that about young people because a lot of young guys before they ever have any sexual interaction or watching porn yeah I mean yeah I mean watch these guys have come on the studies yeah I mean clear it makes sense you know I didn't

grow up looking at you know I didn't my dad didn't have playboy I didn't grow up I still remember they were like cards in the back of a bus that had you know solicit you know naked women on the back of playing cards I remember on the school bus. one day I was like, I saw a car and I picked it over and it was like a naked, I was like, what's that? You know, I didn't see my first like porn video until I was like in my late teens. So I didn't grow up with any of that. Yeah.

But, you know, it's it is what it is. It's where we're headed. But all the more reason to create environments like this. Right. And that's why I do love what I get to do. Like if I can somehow explore something cinematically that I'm personally. that I'm personally, again, that goes back to like what's, yeah, just I can't explain it. It was Will, the thing, I'm just going to explore this.

If there's something I feel like I want to do it, if I can explore it and be real, maybe somebody's going to attach to it. Like, I'm a huge believer in art. Yeah. You know, I think art is, you know, in any form is a key to our communicative ability and, like, not feeling alone. It really comes down to me, at least, just not feeling alone, part of a community. Yeah.

That's it. Because me alone, me alone, and if I'm controlling a robot, it's still me alone. I guess that's what I'm saying. Some part of my brain, even though it's, even if you could create a world, like virtual reality, it doesn't really do it for me. Like the world's great. I'm like, you know what I want to live on Mars and you're a dinosaur I'm talking to? And we're married.

Do you know what I mean? And, you know, like, whatever it is. It's like, I still know I'm controlling it. and it'll never really for me I don't know if anybody else so I don't know how I don't think it'll ever really

solve it right it's not gonna resonate I don't think so I don't it'll be escapism yeah which we do many other things

smoking weed is young you know whatever it was for me you know or whatever it is not that weeds that's a communicative thing that actually

but like anything that's escape it's just a higher form of it well it's a discise connect too. That's what I mean. It's a disconnect. Art is a connect, right? It is. When it works, it's a connect. Great art is an expression of someone's humanity that you get to feel like this person did this thing or they're doing this thing right now and I'm watching it. Like, wow. Like, going to see live music for me. Oh, well, music is like our touch to God, no question.

That's why the first one I wanted to make it with music. It's like music. Two people singing to each other that in love, that's it. Yeah. Because first of all, I'm sure you've sang a little bit. If you're not loose, it's going to sound fucking horrible. Yep. Like, we're wind and string instruments, both, right? We're wind and then strings with our vocal cords. And if that's not loose, the sound's going to be horrendous. We're not going to be able to communicate.

But if you're loose and you're singing to somebody and they're singing back to you and you're in love, you're actually in love, whoa. Yeah. Wow. That must be crazy for, like, people that do a duet that are in love with each other and they're on stage and like 16,000 people. I mean, the little taste I got doing a Starzborn, because we jumped on real stages and sang live.

It was fucking crazy, dude. Crazy. We went to Glastonbury Music Festival. 80,000 people. Chris Christopherson gave us four minutes of a set. Me, Maddie Libetique, the DP, Steve Marr, the sound guy. I had my, like, costume in my bag.

I went into the bathroom, came back out as Jackson Main, and we had four minutes and singing. I was like, what the fuck is going on, dude? I mean, Joe, talk about, you know, it's crazy. Oh, that's so wild. And then doing it with Lady Gaga, who's actually, like, my, I made my band with like this, you know, so I could pull it off and I could believe it. And then I'm singing with her, and the minute she opens her mouth, it's like that thing comes out. Yeah.

And your whole body is tingling. It's crazy. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, you can't replace that with AI. I don't think so. No. No, it's impossible.

It's impossible. But you can get oddly close with some music. And everything, like art too. You know, you look at AI art, it's incredible. Well, that spooks me out. Like, how do you feel, I mean, this is one of the things that's really going to be a giant problem for movie making is you can create AI characters that are assembly, they're like, what they've essentially. done is take a conglomeration of all of the acting that's ever been done and all the range that anyone has ever shown and they can manipulate it.

Make it more morose. Yeah, we know. And using prompts of real people. And yeah, we dealt with that with the SAG strike. That was part of the thing. It was this whole AI element to it. And like where we landed is, you know. What was the thought from the people from SAG?

Like, what were they? Well, just protecting our ability of our ownership of our likeness so that you can't use it without a compensation. Right. Because they were doing that. Well, I mean, I think to build these machines, you have to prompt. Yeah. So that, and then you're prompting using what's existing.

Yeah. And then how do you, how do you, you know, it's just reframing. How do you allocate funds to someone when you're using a prompt that's based on the human being who's an actor? And, you know, do you patent your likeness? You know, we're just moving in, it's the Wild West. Yeah. It's the Wild West.

Uncharted. Oh, yeah. In every way. You know, like there's podcasts that are AI-driven now. You can watch a discussion and that would be a podcast. I think Glenn Beck just released the first Glenn Beck completely AI podcast. Right. I was like, okay.

But does that scare you? No. It doesn't scare me either. No, it doesn't scare me with that, with podcasting. Because I think one of the things that people come to podcasting from is this desire to, be like a dose of humanity is how I describe it. I want real interaction between two real people and I feel it and I know it's real. And there's something about that that gives me comfort when I'm driving my car or when I'm on a plane. You know, like I'm listening to these two people

interact and I'm thinking like how would I, what would I say? What do I think about this? Oh, I get where he's going from. Okay. Oh, wow. That's his perspective. Oh, that's interesting. And then it makes me like rethink things or think about things with fresh eyes. I don't think you're going to be able to do that. But also, if I know it's AI, if you tell me it's AI, I'm not going to trust anything. It's saying anything on that level. Yeah. Because it's not me I'm listening to. Right. It's fascinating for a while. And then it's like, well, I kind of want to just not feel alone. Right. Back to that. Well, there's an emptiness to AI music. I love a lot of AI music, but there's an, I love AI covers. Like they've done some AI

No, no, I've heard, you know. The 50-cent ones? Oh, yeah, bro. How good. I bought, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's sick. It's sick. I was like, if that guy was alive, it was a real person, he'd be like one of the biggest artists in the world. He's a fucking dynamo. Yeah. But there's an emptiness to it where you know, like, there's no human, there's no humanity, there's no soul. There's no, you might enjoy it in the moment, but you better have some real shit, too.

But the truth is, I listen to that. I don't know that there's no soul, because I'm not seeing the person sing it. Right. You know, and so much music is manipulated anyway, the voice where it goes through the system. And, you know, but if I'm watching a human being, that's why people love to go watch people perform live. Yeah. You know, I don't know that guy that, you know, that AI thing, the 50 cent is a huge.

If you told me that was a guy, I'd be like, oh, I can't wait to see him. I would have no idea that's not a guy. We played in the green room when no one's. No, I know. And they're like, who is this guy? Yeah. It's not a person. But of course, how would you know?

But everybody has the same reaction. Like, oh, no. Right. Right. That's not the reaction. Yeah. I don't know what's wrong with me, but I don't feel that. I'm like, cool.

Yeah. I don't know. But we've been through things before, you know. I think this is a bigger one, though. No, no, it is. But relatively speaking, it's probably not. Contextually. Right.

You know. The printing press. Internal combustion engine. You know, all that. Airplanes. Here we go. Yeah. Cell phones.

Yeah. AI music. Yeah. And AI film. I mean, you can produce a full feature film with prompts now. Yeah. Which is just nuts. Have you seen any of the AI Star Wars?

Clips fan-made. Yeah, yeah, it's nuts. Fucking amazing. Yeah, I have a couple buddies that did some stuff that was fascinating. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I don't, it's like if the ocean's flowing, what are you going to? I mean. It's going to happen.

Yeah, I mean, you build the damn, okay, it's John Henry, dude. It's John Henry in the Steam Engine. I always think about that song when I was a kid that he said must have played on PBS. You know, it's like, Steam Engine's coming, bro. Yeah. It's like, you know, you may be able to lay the track. One guy could, but then he died. you know, it's, it is what it is.

And once I sort of give myself over to it, you know, I don't know. It feels like for me personally, it's a waste of time to be emotionally upended by it. I agree with that. That's all. I think that's a healthy perspective, because I think it is inevitable, but it is also very strange. And the truth is we don't know what's inevitable. We know something's inevitable. There's a movement, but no one knows.

We just don't know. We may not be around by the time it happens anyway, meaning like who knows. We just don't know anything. Right. That's the truth. And that's what's so terrifying. That's why we want to escape. Yeah.

At least me. By the way, I'm saying all this generally, but that's, I go back to like, what do I feel? It's like, okay, so how can I, you know, this is totally out of my control. So why am I terrified? Just breathe through it. Okay. It'll be an adjustment. Because the other thing, I think, people change.

I don't know what you think. People do change in life. Like, I just think we change. Like, I'm not the same person I was five years ago. Of course. You know, some people don't think that. You know, like, you're always the same. Like, I don't think that.

Those people are silly. Yeah, I really, people change. People change. They change by the minute. Yeah. But I mean, like, major changes. Yeah, sure. And do you ever think back in your life and you're like, I've lived so many lives?

Yeah. Like, it's crazy. If you live a good life, I think that's the case. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're going to change. And if you don't, like, how, why not? Right.

Yeah. if you don't look so many lives. Did you just nail it when you were 21 and ride that fucking boat right into the rocks? No. Because everything else is changing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, you have to change. But it's just this change is a strange change because we're essentially creating an artificial life form that can interact with us in right now in a way that you can manipulate like this AI sex bot. But eventually it's going to interact with you and you're not going to be able to manipulate it. It's going to be a life form.

Yeah, that's going to be something. Yeah, and the entertainment aspect of it is just a side effect. The real... I don't even think the entertainment... Yeah, that's not even the thing. The thing is life's going to change. That's what I feel like, too. It's like, oh, the storytelling.

I don't think that's our main thing that's concerned, dude. The storytelling thing is going to be weird. But, like, that's... We're talking about a minute-to-minute life existence change. Most probably. It's essentially going to be a life form. And, you know, there's a lot of technologists that are looking at it and they're saying this is, should be studied by biologists and not by people that are involved in technology. Right.

Because this is kind of a life form. It's just a life form. It's fascinating. He's a human beings what we do. Oh, yeah. It's like, is a Mark Zuckerberg building the size of Manhattan for a place to be able to create and generate a computer for an AI? You know, like the amount of energy that we're, you know, every, you know, it's fascinating. Human beings are fascinating.

Well, they need their own nuclear power plants to run them. But isn't it fascinating? Just ardent, like. Yeah. And then if you have an enemy, there's competition. Right? Right? Yeah.

And you better create one so that you could be motivated. It's really interesting. I just, you ever stop and think, like, what does 50 years from now look like? Oh, it's, you know, I think about, again, with kids. My daughter and I, we walk through, because I live in New York, we talk about it all the time. Like, what's going to be here when you're my age? It's like what do you think we know we talk about it all the time But whether she even needs to get a driver's license

You know she's eight you know it's really fascinating Right like like our waymo's gonna be everything As opposed to now When I was eight I mean I remember having a beeper You know and I thought that was like crazy Yeah

Yeah and a StarTac phone Yep I was like whoa I got one when I moved to L.A Oh man I remember that start to live in the fucking future I could any excuse to fucking Pull up the antenna Yeah

Motorola. Yes, dude. I got the extended battery. Oh, shit. Yeah, of course. This was great. Yeah, yeah. I can call people whenever I want.

Yeah, man. I remember when Blackberry died and iPhone. I was one of the last people. I kept that BlackBerry. I kept the BlackBerry deal deep into the game. Me too. I needed that keyboard. I was like, I don't, this is not going to work.

Right. Yeah. My thumbs are too big. Now I hardly ever even actually type. Well, I do when I write, but when I talk to people, I just talk text. You do. I do not do that. Yeah.

It's so good. It's so much quicker. Yeah, I should do that. I always have a hard time turning it on and then knowing it's not a voice memo or the thing. I got to look at it. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's the embracing of it is inevitable. But it's like, where is it going and what is it going to lead us to? And how many different jobs are just going to vanish? That's what's really scary, like giving people purpose and meaning because so many people, their purpose and meaning is their occupation. and if your occupation is completely irrelevant, it just doesn't work anymore. It's like...

You know, again, I think back to me and my upbringing, my grandfather who was a B-Cup for 35 years, I don't think you would say his purpose was that. You know, I think his purpose was his family, and my purpose is my family, and it's not my job, even though I get to do something I absolutely love. I don't know that people's purpose innately is their job. You know, I think it's a, I do think for me, it's like, you know, God's in all of us. It's like whatever you want to say of God, like the need to communicate to create experiences that we don't feel alone because it's fucking terrifying being on this little thing who knows where we are and then we're gone. Yeah.

I mean, it's a horror movie. Yeah. So we got to band together and communicate. Well, I've thought about that too when people say, you know, jobs are going to do a job. go away and we're going to have universal basic income and the problem is then no one will have any motivation and a lot of people lost without meaning like but why why because when did working even become your purpose in life like this is a it's a means to an end to provide you know but it's a construct it's not the only way human beings can live and if we've learned anything

about ourselves as a human species, we can adapt. Yes. Yeah. You know, highly able to adapt. Right. But what does that adaptation look like? And how do you educate people to not just seek a safe job that's going to provide for your family, but instead seek a purpose, seek a thing that gives you fulfillment, a thing

where you feel like you're contributing to the world or, like, maybe it'll lead to an explosion of human created art. because I think one of the things that's going to happen for sure is people are going to really greatly appreciate things that other human beings have made because like you've got to go oh well this is real but this is handmade this is made by a guy in Wisconsin you know he's got a shop you can watch a shop on niche it's all huge niche yeah we just got to get more people to embrace that kind of life like giving them purpose and creation and I think most people are creative it's just that that creation creativity is probably like pushed out of you when you sort of conform to society's ideas of what you're supposed to be doing with your life. Or you feel like you're told in a competitive environment that you're not creative. Right. You know, if you're not helped along the way in those developing years by at least somebody, it could be knocked out of you. Yes.

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Medcan. Live well for life. Visit medcan.com slash moments to get started. believed in me. And I'm like, yeah, without that, I don't know. Oh, yeah. Even with how much I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, children are almost all creative.

They're always playing and fucking around with dolls and fucking around with Legos and they're moving things around. And they're using their mind to, they're drawing, they're doing stuff that's creative. It's just after a while, that part of their life just kind of goes. away in atrophies and then they embrace the grind or whatever they're doing. So it could lead to some sort of burst in that. Yeah. The hard part's going to be people that are already set in their ways and when their job just goes away, when it just becomes irrelevant.

And that's about governing. Yeah. And what do we do? Yeah. The government's terrible at everything. They're not getting people to be creative. Or just like how do we deal with it? You know, any transition can be various states of volatility.

What do you think movie making is going to be like? I mean, how much of a play is AI going to have in filmmaking? I mean, it already has a play, you know, in it, you know, in terms of what certain houses use, you know, whether it's writing or special effects, or I don't even know how much AI is used. You know, I'm sure it is. I'm sure it's used at every level, just like in every other aspect of the workforce. But I don't know, you know. I don't know. All I know is like, again, telling stories. where you don't, that you feel like you can relate to it, no matter how, and what's wonderful is,

you know, I'm watching Avatar. Like, I saw a movie the other night that I didn't believe anybody in it. You know, and if I'm not believing it, I just, I can't, I can't stay awake. Yeah. You know, and I just, I love Avatar. I love, you know, and I love sci-fi stuff. I love, and I, and I, and Leah, and we were watching, because we watched three, then two, and we were watching one, so in bed, we were watching one, and I was like, I had just gone from

watching this movie. they're like, I didn't believe anything. Anybody was doing the whole time. So I was out of it. And then I'm like watching Avatar for two seconds. Two people are, yeah, they're on a thing and they're blue, but they're talking to each other. Right, right. I don't know.

I think whatever they're doing, they're talking to each other. Yeah. So. Avatar was fascinating because of Avatar Depression. You know about Avatar depression? No. There was so many people that loved Avatar so much and connected with the idea of living on Pandora and being in that world and being the novice.

and being the Navi that they wished that they were there. I get it. And so they were developing avatar depression. It was like they were talking about it. Like it was a psychological condition that people were affected by. That's how good that movie was. Yeah. It gave people depression that they weren't a giant blue person.

The color blue. That alone. You know, and the color of blue that James Cameron landed on. What do you think that is? I don't know, but that blue is pretty wonderful. Do you think it's the ocean when the sun hits it? It feels like, you know, the Caribbean or something. Right.

Yeah. Like it's life. Exactly. Like white sand and overhead light. Yeah. Through water. Yeah. That is weird.

Yeah. Because if they were red, they'll be odd. I'm like, when's four and five? Come on. Right. Right. I haven't seen three yet. Is it great?

I loved it. I loved one and two. Yeah. I fucking love those movies. Me too. Yeah. There's a great ride in a Disney World. I heard about it in Orlando, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait to go. Fucking amazing. Are you on the... Yeah. That's crazy. It's a VR ride.

You put a helmet on and you sit on this thing that looks like a motorcycle. And then all of a sudden, like you feel wind. It's got like physical elements to it and smells and mist. You're flying on one of those dragon things. And you're flying around Pandorm. It's incredible. But that movie was so impactful that people got depressed that they weren't living there. Yeah, I get it.

Yeah. I mean, I think it happens all the time. They just have a term for it now. But I'm sure it happened with Star Wars. Dancing with Wolves. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. I mean, how many people wanted to be a Native American and live with the Native Americans? Because they saw Kevin Costner do it and like, oh, this is better.

This is better than living in the town with all those assholes going to the saloon. You know? Yeah, there's something about that. You know, there's something about like living in harmony that appeals to people, you know. And I think that has always been the appeal of, you know, there's a lot of people that were kidnapped when they were young. by Native American tribes. Like there's a photo outside in the lobby, I don't know if you saw it, of Quana Parker.

He's the last of the Comanche chiefs. And there's a lot of like city streets and areas all around Austin that are named after Comanche. There's like Quana Parker Lane and all these things. And his mom was Cynthia Ann Parker. She was kidnapped by the Comanche, which she was nine. They killed her family, wiped out her whole family in Oklahoma. It's documented in the book, Empire of the Summer Moon.

It's an incredible book that all talks about the conquering of Texas and the Comanche fighting the Texas Rangers. But this woman was kidnapped when she was nine, married the Comanchee chief, and her son was Quana Parker. So her son was half colonizer, half Comanche, and he became the last Comanche chief. And this lady, they rescued her when she was 30, and she kept trying to escape. She wanted to go back.

Right. Like, no one ever, like, went to the Native Americans and then wanted to go back to regular Western life. They all wanted to stay with the Native Americans. They all, they loved that life. There's something about this ancient way of living, subsistence hunting, living on the land. that was just resonating. On the show about the need to go out in nature. Oh, yeah.

I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's like, oh, right. You know, it's very important. I think it's a vitamin. No question. Yeah. Yeah, Native American. And also, like, you think about, I mean, yeah, I'm a fan of all that.

There's this guy, great writer, M. Scott Mamaday and Sherman Alexi, you know, just writing about it's pretty, yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah. But people that went and lived with the Native Americans never wanted to go back to the West. But people that lived in a Native American life and then moved to the West, they always wanted to go back. Like it never went the other way. But somehow another, the way of the Western people, the way the settlers won out by like sheer volume and numbers and this concept of progress. Yeah. technology.

Yeah. I mean, that was the reason why they were able to pull it off in the first place was the cult revolver. Because without the revolver, they all had muskets, and the Comanche had like five, six arrows, and they would run at them. And Mel Gibson movie. Remember the end of the Mel Gibson movie? Which movie? Apocalyptic? Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He finally escapes you and he gets to the beach, and then the boats are coming. Yeah. Oh, fuck. Yeah. After you just watch him go through the whole thing. Uh-huh. You're like, the muskets coming.

Yeah, the musket and then the rifle. Yeah. And then the rub all over. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was just steel. You know, that was the crazy thing about the Aztecs and Cortez. It's just they had steel armor and, you know, they were riding horses.

And everybody was like, these guys are gods. Like, this is crazy. They have metal. And that's all it took. 13 muskets. 13 muskets, 600 men. Yeah. Conquered Mexico.

It's just. it's weird the way progress moves. Because, I mean, you can call it progress, but is it even better? What is progress? It's like technological innovation and adaptation to it. I don't know if it's progress. It all feels very overwhelming.

And I think that's where the downside of our ability to have so much access to information, or me have so much access to information, is that it starts to take my breath away. And then that's why it's like what's just simple. Well, that's why it's smart that you're not on social media.

Right. Yeah, because that's the main tap into the overwhelming. But I still feel overwhelmed. You know, even though I'm not on social media, you know, whatever my news feed is, you know what I mean? And what I can actively look up

and listen to is still, you know, 100 times X is when I was a teenager. Oh, yeah. You know, the fact that I even have a phone to do it. Right. You know, so I even feel that. But you're right.

I can't even imagine what social media does. It does a lot. And it really does a lot for young people. They're just being wired in a way that no human being has ever been wired before. Like just their whole, all of their interactions are different than anybody that's ever lived. Yeah. Which is so strange. It's like, because there's been minor changes over time that have led to, like, just the invention of cable, right?

Just that. That changed everything. Massive. It changed it for me. I probably wouldn't have wanted to do this. I mean, there was a movie theater. My back air was train tracks and the movie theater. I loved it.

Watch stand by me a hundred times. We'd walk and pretend that I was there. But then, like, Comcast came through and Prism and HBO. And all of a sudden, I can watch taxi driver 14 times. And The Elephant Man and Popeye and Apocalypse Now and Raging Bull. Like, you know, from 12 to... on that I would never have had. It was like platoon for six months, Yentel.

You know what I mean? It's like there was one choice. So yeah, it's interesting. Well, it's weird too now that you have instantaneous access. Like now it's not even, oh, Apocalypse Now is on at 8 o'clock on Saturday. I just pulled up the clip that I was talking about, which is instantly in the middle of a conversation. Which is wonderful. Yeah.

Yeah. It's great if it doesn't overwhelm you. Yeah. If you use it and it doesn't use you. Yeah. But the problem is... I feel like that with so many things, don't you? It's like, yeah.

That's why I love books still. I still love books. It's like... A physical copy. Yeah, I do. I love books. Yeah, I don't necessarily read books very often. Most of my interaction with literature is just audio.

Yeah. Just because of a time thing. Right. For me, my time is just... It's too difficult for me to manage all the things. I have a hard time staying with audio books. Yeah, retaining it. I start thinking about the rhythm of the voice and the, my brain goes to other things.

Like, who's the person talking? You know, where are they sitting? I don't know. Like, it changes. Well, that's probably why you're a great actor. Yeah, maybe. I mean, it has to have something to do with it because you're in this, you're considering this as a human being.

Yes. You're absorbing their humanity. Right. While they're... Where this is like words and like unlocks my imagination. Yeah. And it's like, I'm here and it's like, I don't know what's going to come. Right.

The words are in your head. The voices are in your head. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't necessarily have to assign a sound to them. Yeah, they take on and they change and they morph and you don't know what's going to happen. Well, there's probably a real value to that just in terms of the enhancement of your own intellect, just to constantly be doing that.

And as you're reading this, be engrossed and absorbed in this person's writing. And then, like, being taken on this journey. Yes. It's like stimulating all these parts of your mind. Yeah, I was just on the track in Rome in the Olympics. You know what I mean? And the guy was just coming and taking, you know, wearing two sweatshirts to like intimidate. You know, like, it's amazing.

Yeah. But it's, the good, the thing that's maybe changing is like it does ask a lot of the reader or the viewer to use to come out of with their imagination. Yes. And then there's something about taking all that away and you're just receiving that'll be, it's very new. Yeah. And then, yeah, that's a huge change. There's not so much communication going on. It's just receiving.

But there's all those, the mastery of, like, that guy doing Lord of the Rings. And, like, the taking in what he's doing, you know, then realize this one fucking person is doing all these different voices is nuts. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. But it's, you have more access now to other people's creations than ever before. Like, you can be absorbed in other people's work all the time now. instantaneously on your phone. I'm sitting here.

I'm bored. Let me just get someone's creation and plug it into my head. Or somebody's thoughts on something or research they've done. Yeah. That's what's amazing. Oh, yeah.

That's what I've learned on your show too. You know, that I didn't, no one had access to that. Or it was frowned upon. Right. Or like, well, you're not smart if you talk about this. Right.

You know, let everybody decide. Right. And the truth is, we don't know fucking anything. No. Well, there's a lot of gatekeepers. when it comes to what you should or should not be interested in. Yeah. Or should or should not be discussing.

I remember being in college and there was a student, African American student who I really, I was friends with it. I remember him saying like, man, the one course he's like, it's just not, they're not telling the story. And I remember when he went and he talked, this is in 1995 or four. Wait, and I graduated in 97 from college. Yeah, so like, yeah, four or five. I think I was a sophomore. And like he was just, what he was talking about was like other, other, other, you know, ways of looking at history and like can't we just look at other stuff and it's fascinating you know now

it's like there's whole you know courses on it or sections that you can read and learn and hear what people you know that's kind of amazing yeah it definitely is I think it's amazing as long as you could be you know like you're not strict but as long as you can be um you know what's the word you know that you're like okay I'm looking at it this is not you know, the Bible of what it is, but let me just see here, this take. Uh-huh. You know, that's only healthy, I think. A hundred percent, yeah.

The problem and the fear is like, oh, no, you're going to get, and then the cults and the group and the thing, and all of a sudden there's a movement and, you know, but whenever that happens anyway, there's so much infighting and the thing get just diluted anyway. Like, it's no, it's never going to work. Right. That's the thing about the Bible itself is the Bible is a series of stories. that were an oral tradition for who knows how many years, for they eventually wrote it down,

then they translated it from dead languages, and eventually to English, you know, like, what is this? Like, what was the original, what is the meaning of this? And you don't even have to go back that far. It's like just how we take it, you know, label, you know, all they are are labels, of words, language, you and our communicate using the system of symbols, vocal symbols,

that we both think means something. Yeah. say protein bites, it's like you're looking at that differently than I am. So it's so impossible anyway. We're just desperately trying to communicate. Yes. That's all we're doing desperately and have a story. What's our story? What's our story? That's going to be the weirdest aspect of communication through technology is that we're going to get to a point where we're communicating without words. That's going to get really weird. Telepathy. That to me is scary because I don't trust my thoughts. Do you know what I mean? Like if I've learned anything in

I've gotten orders like, oh yeah, let that wash through me. I don't have to judge myself for that. That was crazy. Right. Whoa. Right. No, no, no. It's okay.

Let it wash through. Judge me by my action. Yeah, yeah, I do believe that. Not by what's going on inside my head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but then managing the thoughts and deciding what to act on and what not to. And imagine like trying to consciously control your thought.

I mean, all of a sudden talk about control, trying to control. Well, I think it's going to be a completely different way of interacting with each other. that's going to be as crazy as internet communication and what we're dealing with now, that's going to be another level of crazy. Because we're essentially going to be telepathic. And that's inevitable. That's in the world. I mean, Elon said that to me because you're going to be able to communicate with no words.

I was like, okay. What does that mean? Yeah. What does that like? What language is it going to be in? Is it going to be in a new universal language? It's very exciting. Yeah. Well, it's very weird.

Yeah. Both. We're going to be different. Yeah. I just hope I'm around to experience it. You will be. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to happen fairly quickly. I think it's going to happen within the next couple decades. The things are going to be unrecognizable. Oh, if less than that.

Yeah. I mean, that's just being like really charitable. Yeah. That is. It's probably going to be five years. Yeah, I mean, you've talked to enough people that are on the front lines of it, and there is one sort of constant thing that it's sooner than you think. And everyone on the front line is fucking terrified. I know. All of them.

I know. Even the ones that are working towards it, they're all like, I don't know. It's true. Like, I don't know if this is good, but we're doing it. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I know.

Strange stuff. Hey man, I'm glad we did this. This is a lot of fun. Joe. You know, it's real quick. It's just fun to see the progression of it. It's like, I'm here. And then like the elephant man, by the end of it, I just see your eyes talking to me.

It's like I forgot the room and Jamie. and the whole thing. I understand the gift. I get it. Well, it's because we're locked in. Yeah, but I get it. I get it. Because I love watching you have guests on,

and then through the time, you just start to, things just start to shed off. Or it gets more awkward. Or like the rhythm gets off. It's just so fascinating. And so I was so honored to be able to be in, like, you know,

the seat and experience it. Oh, it's my pleasure. Yeah. I'm honored to be able to talk to me. people like you. Yeah. And to be able to experience, you know, as you're talking, I'm experiencing life through your eyes.

Yeah. And I'm getting a better sense of what it is to be a person. And it's just like these little thin layers. Like you're building a mountain with one layer of paint at a time. That's it. Yeah. Everything is that. Everything is that.

Yeah. Everything is that. Yeah. If you're living a good life. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you're definitely living a good life. Oh, thanks, man.

It's been a pleasure getting to know you, man. cool as fuck. Thanks, Joe. My pleasure. All right. Everybody is this thing on, is out now, right? Yeah, opens wide tomorrow. Tomorrow.

Today, I guess. Today, as this podcast comes out. Correct. And go check it out. It's awesome. Thanks, man. Bradley, you're the man. Thank you.

All right. Bye, everybody.