The Joe Rogan Experience - #337 - Justin Wren

Episode Date: March 12, 2013

Justin Wren is an American MMA fighter, formerly on the Ultimate Fighter. He is currently on a 1-year mission helping the Pygmy people of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Learn more about his project here: FightFortheForgotten.com

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Justin Wren, first of all, thanks for doing this. I'm so glad we could fit you in. I was a little worried we weren't going to be able to get you before you got back to the Congo, because you're on this kind of a whirlwind thing. You know, you're back in L.A. for only a few days, right?

Actually, I head out to Vegas after this and then I'm driving there and I fly out tomorrow for those who don't know Justin was a contestant on the ultimate fighter is a mixed martial arts fighter in the heavyweight division for the UFC and then I started reading some stuff I think the first thing I read about it was on the underground which is mixedmart martial arts.com. This is great website that we both belong to. It's probably the best mixed martial arts message board in the country, in the world,

really. And there was a thread where it was talking about you going over there and helping people in the Congo and working with these pygmies. And this had become something you were really, really devoted to. And I was like, wow, who saw that coming? Check this guy out. I saw a picture of you before that with a pig that you had killed with a knife over your shoulder.

I'm like, this guy's a fucking savage. He's got a pig over his shoulder. There's a picture of you with this wild hog over your shoulder. I'm like, i want to party with justin wren and the next thing you know you go from there and you're uh you're mixed martial arts fighter hog killer pygmy saver i mean you're over there helping all these people in the congo how did all this get started man i just heard about how much they were suffering and uh i i had no clue like i i fighting I wanted to fight against people,

you know, and I wanted my dreams, my everything. And then when I heard about the pygmies, I just heard the suffering that they were going through. I heard that they felt forgotten. I heard that they were enslaved. I heard that the four out of 10 is the small stat that you can find. Four out of 10 of their children die before age five. And so for me, I was just like, man, that's brutal. And I knew that they were not given citizenship in their own country. And so I just went there to just learn and see and sit with them, live with them, sit around the campfire. That's where I've learned most whenever the slave masters aren't around, whenever, uh, whenever those guys are asleep, then they'll really open up and tell you what everything's happening. Um, and so it was just a ton of suffering. And that's how I went over there.

I just went with a burden to find out what was going on. Could you put that a little closer to you? Yeah, absolutely. How did you find out about it at first? What was the, what, I mean, what led you to this? I had a buddy that was having a plan to go to the Congo and he was going all by himself. And I mean, just completely, utterly alone. And it was like the worst conflict zone on

the planet. And, uh, heard about what he was doing, heard about, uh, what was happening with the pygmies and, uh, heard his wife, uh, was a little worried that he was going. And, uh, I just was looking for something with purpose and passion. And I felt like I could be passionate about fighting for people. And so I went with him and, uh, heard all the terrible stuff that was going on. And we went there to see what we could do to help. Wow. That's so inspiring. And so I went with them and heard all the terrible stuff that was going on. And we went there to see what we could do to help. Wow. That's so inspiring. And for folks who haven't seen it, there's a video that Justin did that's gone viral. And this has really brought a lot of attention to your cause and what you're doing. There's a video of you with these young pygmy

children that are, is this the first time they're seeing a white man? To preface the video, this is actually not the pygmies, the video. It's actually the Bantu. And the Bantu are the tribe that's actually enslaving the pygmies. And so it was, yeah, it was around some of the pygmies, but this was the least remote location. Like you'll see that there wasn't many trees. Where I went was 85 kilometers deep in the jungle where you couldn't even see the sky because the canopy of the rainforest is so tall. And so this was the Bantu people and the Bantu people are ones that enslaved them. It was actually a gift because I don't, that video to me is a real gift. It shows me, uh, even though I hated their parents, um, uh, you know, you can't even see that in the video that I actually would just had a hatred in my heart towards the parents of these kids.

But yeah, so that was brutal because on the UG also I posted a video or actually a thread about how I buried a one-and-a-half-year-old in the Congo. And his name was Andy Bo. And so this video that's playing right now, you can't even tell that their parents are responsible for the grave that I dug, I think, two days before that video. So these are the Bantu peoples? Bantu. B-A-N-T-U. And the Bantu people are enslaving the pygmies, and this has been going on for how long? It's actually rather recent.

I mean, there's been types of it for hundreds of years, but they have different kinds of slavery within the Pygmies. There's ones that they're held to gunpoint. There's by the rebels in the gold and coal tan and diamond mines. And then there's other ones where they're in shackles. But then the ones that we've actually, I didn't get to say that yet, but we've actually set some slaves free. some pygmy slaves that were from the Bantu. And we negotiated with the Bantu people who go up and they buy up the land from underneath the pygmies. Pygmies don't have a way to make any monetary gain. They don't get paid anything in money.

They get paid sometimes corn, sometimes bags of salt, sometimes bars of soap, like a bar of soap for two days of work. They might get a bar of soap to bathe with. And so, yeah, the Bantu people are the ones that are enslaving them that we're actually negotiating with them to free them. Wow. Yeah. What a crazy environment that must be. The Congo itself, not being able to see the sky

and having all this insane conflict going on underneath the canopy of these trees, all so primitive, dealing with things like slavery and forcing people. What's really crazy is forcing people to work in the mines to create the very things that we need to power our most technologically advanced pieces of electronics like these laptops. Yeah.

That coltan, right? Yeah. Coltan, I think 80 to 90% of it is found in the Congo. So it's only found in two places in the world. 80 to 90% of it's the Congo, a hundred percent of it's rebel owned. There's not a legit mine. And so most of it's pygmy slave mind. A hundred percent of it is rebel owned. From the Congo. Yes. The democratic Republic of Congo, all of it is rebel owned. So there is no karma free cell phones, electronics. No, no, not smartphones, Macs, not flat screen TVs.

So, I mean, I support it even. I have the Apple products, iPad, iPhone, everything. What a bizarre, fascinating sort of statement on humanity, that is. Yeah, it's actually pretty crazy, man, because I had some pygmies come one time and give me some coltan. I didn't know what it was, though, at the time. I didn't know. I knew that there, at the time. I didn't know. I knew that there was golden diamond mines there and that they were slaves in those.

But I had no clue what coltan was. And that was after my first trip. But they actually put some coltan in my hands and I was holding it. And they were really excited to give it to me. You know, this is why they're slaves. And so they thought I'd be ecstatic. And so I'm having to ask my translator, like, what is this stuff they're handing me? I didn't know if it was like rough diamonds or if deep inside there there was gold or what it was, but it was coal tan.

What does it look like? It's like this black, dark mineral. It's almost, some of it almost looks like a crystal or I don't know if you can throw up a picture. Almost like coal. Yeah, almost like coal. It's long and jaggedy. It's kind of a, I don't know if you can throw up a picture. Almost like coal. Yeah, almost like coal. It's long and jaggedy. It's kind of a, I don't know, you know those like crystals that you used to be able to buy that are long like that? It'd be a black one of those almost.

And sometimes it has more of a coal, like charcoal kind of feature to it. And it's heavy. But it's a great conduit for electricity. And that's why we're using it in all our smartphones and everything. And that's why they're slaves. But I wasn't excited about it. and I didn't know what it was. But for them, think how crazy that is. That's why they're slaves.

And I don't even know what it is. And they're just ecstatic to give it to me. Meanwhile, it's a huge source. I mean, you need it all over the world. Yeah. And most people are completely ignorant as to what it is especially where it comes from it's very bizarre I had to explain that to someone when they were talking about

how much better it is to have an electric car and I'm like do you understand that car is filled with conflict minerals it's not that simple it's not as simple as you're good and the guy with the gas guzzler is bad no there's a lot of fuckery in creation of your car. Batteries, like lithium ion,

that's another reason why we're in Afghanistan. There's lithium stores. There's trillions of dollars of lithium in Afghanistan. And that's what you need for lithium ion batteries. Yeah. Man, it's insane. I can't even, I mean, I know we have two hours, but I don't even know if I could get into some of the,

the stuff. I know that, uh, Shane from vice has been on here and then someone was saying someone else tomorrow. Is he really? Yeah, man.

I wish I could meet that dude. Uh, he's a cool guy. You want to meet him? If he could say that until tomorrow, you can meet him. All right. We'll have to see about my plane.

He'd be happy to meet you, man. He's the coolest motherfucker on earth. Dude, I, I think he's awesome. Yeah. He's a great guy. He's super coolest motherfucker on earth. Dude, I think he's awesome. Yeah, he's a great guy. He's super easy to talk to, too.

Just really, like, down to earth. Yeah, he goes to some of the craziest places. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's returning back and forth, you know? I wonder what he'd think about me going for a full year. I know that he said it was a crazy time going there, and I just would want to pick his brain what party he went to.

Is that what you're doing now? You're about to go for a year? For a full year, yeah. I'm going to go for a full year, and I'm partnering with the oldest university in the Congo, and they have been working on this project for seven years, and we kind of just linked up together to where our visions just are kind of the same.

We want to free these people and give them a sustainable ways of life. So I'm one of my best friends now, was born and raised in the Congo, was educated, got his doctorates in Australia, but then he came back to the Congo and he's the Dean of the school of community development. So he teaches them different ways of agriculture, water wells, all these kinds of things. So he's actually setting them free. That's what we did in September. We saw 60 slaves be set free, put on 30 acres of land and get a water well. Now it's doubled. Now, since I've been back here, it's been 120 slaves set free, put on 30 acres of land and get a water well. Now it's doubled.

Now, since I've been back here, it's been 120 slaves set free. Men, women, and children put on 60 acres of land. And then now, you know, we're wanting to find a way. We think that me going there for a year. And if we were able to fundraise $50,000, so we could find a thousand people at 50 bucks, a thousand people, 50 bucks, That's a thousand slaves freedom. And it would, it's, it's a nuts amount of stuff that that would do. How many people are slaves right now there?

Well, the pygmies in the democratic Republic of Congo, there's a few different, it's hard for them to do a census. You know, I mean, these are hunters and gatherers and nomads and slaves and then in dangerous areas and then really remote areas. So there's a few different cens senses that they've tried to do. The lowest I've seen is 300,000 pygmies. And then another I've seen is 600,000. And pygmy actually literally translated means elbow height. So, I mean, they're smaller than everybody else. It's almost like they're just the worst bullying victims that have ever been. So the average

men's height is four foot seven. So are they in any way like uh have you ever um seen any of that stuff on um uh the uh the hobbit people from uh this uh island of um the remains they found no yeah they found remains of people that lived you know tens of thousands of years ago with with humans and they were the real tiny like almost people like things right it's really interesting when you see like someone like the pygmies where you have like a whole race of them that are like really tiny like that it makes you wonder like how did that how that separate strain branch off way way way back in the day and the evolutionary chain of uh of these these people being developed it's really odd yeah yeah i mean one of the, one of the problems that they, uh, they have is that, um, they're called half man, half animal, uh, by the surrounding

tribes. And so that's one reason why I've met people, uh, that have been that their families, members of their families have been victim of cannibalism. Uh, and so, yeah, I've, I've had pictures, um, that send your guys of cannibalism. They actually, the surrounding tribes believe that if you can consume the flesh of a pygmy, that you can gain superhuman strength. I mean, from taking the genitals off of small bullies and putting them under businesses, it'll bring you wealth from eating their flesh. Yeah. The rebels believe that if you eat their flesh, that you can, what is it? It makes you not bulletproof, but what is it whenever a bullet can just fly right through you? So basically, not invisible. Impenetrable and impervious.

Yeah. So it just, that's what they believe. They take children's genitals and they put them under a business? Yeah, that's what they'll do to them. And they'll think that that brings them many blessings. Some of the witch doctors have done that in Uganda, but they do it in Congo. The part of the Congo that I'm going to is it borders Rwanda and Uganda. And so I'm right over the border and then in the jungle kind of, um, Bunia is where Shalom university is. And then

85 kilometers from there, there's a part of the Congo called commander. Um, they say it differently than that, but then we go from there deep into the jungle and where that is there's some different rebel groups that have that have done just brutal stuff there and uh that's some of their beliefs wow yeah it's pretty crazy does one place get so messed up that what's so crazy man is they should be the richest country on the entire face of this planet they have every element on the periodic table every single one right and uh and they have the most fertile soil they have gold diamonds now coltan with all this taken off they should really be the richest country there is and all the corruption and everything just ruins it it's it's so it's so crazy the corruption is so nuts the

warlords and the whole system that uh that they've got going on down there. It's so bizarre to look at, you know, United States of America here in 2013, how everything is, and then realize there's another part of the world that exists in the same time that is essentially living the way people lived thousands of years ago with guns, though. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what's so crazy is the Pygmies. I actually have my grandpa's, I've been accepted as family there now.

And I have my grandpa, Jalewa, is his name, Jalewa. And he gave me his bow. So his pygmy bow and arrow that he's had for 30, 40 years. Can you even hold it in your hands? It's actually pretty tiny, man. It's pretty tiny. But in it, it has all these things that are almost like a pygmy tally mark. And it's all up and down the top of the bow and the bottom of the bow on the inside.

And it's all the kills that he has of certain types of antelope. And he gave me the, I think I have like 10 arrows, five with like the metal on it. And then four that are just straight wood that are sharpened. And they have this like circular thing around the tip of it. And I thought the ones that are metal would be the ones for the antelope because they look like they do more damage, but it's actually the ones that don't have the metal on it uh that are just carved uh out of the wood that are the ones that go after the antelope because they dip the the tips of them in poison and so it's poison dipped arrows and those are the ones that go after with the biggest ones and the metal ones are more for like monkeys and small little pigs and things like that wow so you're gonna go there and live with these people in like

a tent made out of leaves. Yeah. For a year. It's a twig and leaf hut, man. You should pull the – do people see the picture? Do you have it on your website or anything? Did you send any of those pictures? Yeah, I sent some of the pictures over. Yeah, it's a twig and leaf hut, and they rebuild them basically every night.

Every night? Well, it depends on if it was raining, the rainforest, and then if the wind is blowing. I actually have pictures of, I think, like the widows and orphans that lived in one hut together where just in the middle of the night, it didn't even rain that night, but the wind blew and their whole roof came off. And so they have to go get the leaves again and place them over banana leaves and different like those big elephant looking ear leaves. Right. And so they just get those and they cover up. In nine different villages I went to last time, I was there for a month, and nine different villages I went to, not one of them ever owned a blanket.

Wow. So they're just sleeping straight on the dirt, man. That's it. No blankets. No blankets. No. Just sleeping straight on the dirt. Wow.

First time I went to one of those tribes was I saw the chief and I was putting up my tent and they about lost it and I had a little air up mattress, you know, and I had a sleeping bag. And I mean, to them, that was the Ritz Carlton. So I let the chief have it and I slept. You let the chief have it? That's amazing. Yeah. So I let him have that and I slept in his hut and, uh, yeah. And then, uh, Was he psyched? Yeah, he was, man. And they, they all passed around the Arab mattress and that they were actually like holding it up above them almost like, uh, what crowd surfing, like, like crowd

surfing at a concert. But they're doing that with the air mattress so everyone can feel it. Wow. Yeah. So they've never had mattresses. I mean, this isn't like a new thing to them. They've slept on dirt forever. Yeah.

I haven't come across one pygmy in the remote locations that I've been to that I've ever. Are there pygmies in other locations that have cities or anything like that? No. No, they're actually basically, if they come to a city at all, so yeah, there we go, that would be home sweet home for a full year. That's the kind of villages that I'm staying in. And if you look in there, I think on top of one of those huts, there's like a few clothes.

And if a pygmy's had clothes, they've been a slave. So there's basically, the only pygmies that are there, yeah, so there's some of the clothes. So obviously these ones um were have been slaves and most of the ones i've ever been to have been slaves there's only been like one village i've been to where they were so remote that they still weren't enslaved and they could be hunters and gatherers but the deforestation with the trees falling that you could drive two mac trucks through uh those are scaring all the animals away to where they basically can no longer

live like hunters and gatherers because the animals just flee from all the trees falling so the there is it loggers is that what it is uh it's loggers but it's also the guys that are uh like the bantu the slave masters they can get the pygmies their slaves to go cut these trees down and into pygmies trees are holy uh they believe that the ancestors of their, um, yeah, their ancestors live inside the trees, become trees and, uh, they bury their dead inside holes inside of trees. They find an opening in it. They'll put, put their dead there. Um, and so they're having to cut down what they've lived in for thousands of years. And then the rainforest preservationist and wildlife conservationist, they, they push them out.

They'll buy up the land and they'll say, pygmies aren't good for this, and they'll kick them off the land. And they'll buy up thousands and thousands of acres. Actually, thousands of square kilometers. The preservation people will do this? Yeah, they'll kick the pygmies off. So they're more interested in the trees than they are the pygmies. Absolutely. Wow.

Yeah, I've heard from my family members in the pygmy tribe. And when I say this, literally, I have pygmy family that are more family to me than some of my family here in the Ugmy tribe. And when I say this, like literally, I have pygmy family that are more family to me than some of my family here in the U.S. Like that one crazy cousin who gets drunk and grabs your dick?

Yeah. That guy? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. There's some pygmies that I just love, man, that I love. Oh, sure.

Do you speak their language? I don't speak their language yet. I speak some of it, man, but not a lot. And during that year there, for my birthday coming up, I'm going to get Rosetta Stone, I think, and that's what i'm asking how could you not you're gonna live there for a year you say you love these people what have they been talking shit about you the whole time

and you learn pygmy and find out yeah well they don't have they don't have a rosetta stone in pygmy that'd be funny though i'm the crazy uncle what is the language that they have like what is it called oh it's like that right it's not the clicking it's but it's close it's actually a tonal language or a polyphonic actually there's there's some sweet videos i don't know if you guys want to pull any up but on youtube there's a they do a thing that i love called uh uh the water drum and that actually isn't going to be on my youtube thing but you could look up pygmies water drum on youtube and there's some sweet songs. They'll have like seven to eight women, uh, inside the river. And then they, they each

have a part to play and, um, uh, and they just slap the water and it's, it comes out to beautiful songs or they also have something called polyphonic singing where they each have a, uh, a tone that they do. And they actually, some people call it the language of song. That's trying to think of that, but their language, sometimes they're joking around with each other, getting into it. And it sounds like they're kind of singing to one another.

Wow. So that's the ones that are in the more remote, remote locations. The ones that have been slaves for years and years and years, they've started to learn to speak Swahili. So yeah, there it is. And you're not in it for just the boobs, right?

No, sorry. They, they? No, sir. They sag after a while. Is there a drum to that as well, or is that all just the water? It's all the water. That's awesome. Yeah. And yeah, this is just three.

Whenever they get like eight to ten in there, they get some intense songs. This is hilarious. Take a pause, wipe your eyes. Wow. They also have something called the tree drum. They'll hollow out a tree and they'll get some harder sticks and they'll just beat the side of a tree and it's, man, it's sweet. So what are you doing for food out there uh the last month i went i took about 40 to 50 uh power bars with me man my bag was so heavy because i took uh i took a supplement shop with me and uh but i mean they

eat caterpillars i've eaten like i normally normally don't ask the different parts of it. But like whenever they do goat, which actually pygmies don't eat goat. They believe that it has evil spirits inside it. So even though goats are really easy to raise, they won't eat a goat. The hunters say that goat makes you weak in the knees. And then the women just don't like the flavor of it. And they all think that they've seen evil spirits go inside of them. And so they don't eat goats. Did see drag me to hell is that what it is

i remember that i remember the gate becomes the goat becomes evil remember that i never saw it good movie uh but yeah and so they they eat they'll eat chicken they'll whatever they're slaves for i have a picture i think of uh of my buddy harry and um he we call him har Harry because he's the only pygmy I've ever seen with facial hair. That's why that video was so unique about me because I went over there. And it wasn't just like some guy from America that went there. Big, giant, white, hairy dude. Yeah. What the fuck is all this?

Yeah, that's why my buddy started calling me the great white Sasquatch. What do they think about your tattoos? Oh, yeah, that is crazy. Not to the pygmies. The pygmies actually tattoo their faces sometimes. The women, I've come across a few of them that are more traditional or remote. Those women still carve their teeth. I don't know if you can Google that, but they actually carve their teeth, and it makes them almost look more like a piranha.

To me, it's not attractive, but to the pygmy men, it's attractive. Really? Yeah. Maybe pygmy men hate blowjobs. Like, I hate it. No, it's not attractive, but to the pygmy men, it's attractive. Really? Yeah. Maybe pygmy men hate blowjobs. They're like, I hate it. No, man. I don't even want to be tan. Oh, those teeth.

Good, perfect. You're my girl. I don't know if you guys can find a picture of that, but it's pretty crazy looking whenever they smile. There's a lot of strange things that, wow, oh, my God, that African people do to customize their body. The neck rings, that's very strange. The stretching of the lower lip that the Suri women do. They put a plate in their lower lip. Yeah.

The Maasai, they do their big gauges in their ears. Whenever they get so big that they start flopping around. I've actually been brought into the, so the pygmy tribe brought me in as family. The Maasai tribe had a ceremony and made me a warrior. And they painted me red head to toe. They gave me a spear that killed two lions. Whoa. I've actually seen the mane of the lion that it killed.

The head warrior, you know, gave me my name, which is Mazungu Simba Maasai Maran. And that means the white lion, you know, gave me my name, which is Mazungu Simba Masai Maran. And that means the white lion, Masai warrior. So I'm a part of the warrior class, the Masai. And whenever the wind blows with them and those big gauges, um, they'll just twist their earlobes and then wrap them around the top of their ear. So it looks really funny, but, uh, but that's just on a windy day. So they kill lions with spears. Is it because the lions are attacking them or just they

just go out to be gangster a little a little bit of both really i think the younger guys go out there to impress the girls but uh to kill a fucking lion with a spear yeah isn't there a way to just show your dick the the uh the what is it the guys um oh the they they're those are shepherds so the pygmies are hunter and gatherers but but the Maasai are shepherds, and so they take care of different cattle and goats. And so whenever they're doing that, they have to protect their herd, and that's against lions and jaguars or cheetahs and leopards. And so my spear, they actually showed me the skin of the leopard that it killed,

the mane of the lion that it killed the mane of the lion that it killed um and he also said it killed a man so i guess i have a murder weapon but uh holy shit yeah but he was protecting their cattle a thief came in there and uh actually came with a a rungu which is a club um and so it was a rungu versus a spear and it was a warrior so anyways it's pretty pretty crazy wow what is it like what kind of a head is this thing the spearhead what is it like the spearhead's about this long and it's heavy is it metal uh yeah actually they they have this uh the wood part of it in the middle of a moss eye warrior spear is a from like an olive tree of some sort okay and then they uh put it

through the fire and make it really really strong strong. It's a hardwood anyway. Oh, it's a hardwood. They, they, they know how to treat it through the fire and make it like rock solid. And then one end is almost like, it looks like a javelin.

And so that's the end that they use for either target practice or just sticking it in the ground whenever they're walking around. And the other end they only use for whenever they come across the line. Wow. So one end, they throw it just to like to, just to practice. Yep. And we, we took some balloons over there to see if the kids would like it. And to be honest,

the Warriors liked the balloons better than anything because we'd blow up those balloons and just tie them, throw them on the ground. And then the different Warriors would stock the balloons almost on every time, almost the first throw every single time they nailed it how far away uh i mean not too far because the wind's blowing and they're they're stocking it and whenever they're going after a lion they normally wait until they're close because if they miss you know they don't want to miss you know so they they wait till it's close and so i mean probably here to the door man only like 20 feet well i guess some of them did it farther where some were getting it from all the way to the window. So some of them could actually throw them pretty good and far. Do sometimes they get jacked when they go after these lions?

Oh, yeah. The spear that I have, the warrior that gave it to me, his name is almost like – it's like Most is his name. It's like Most. And the other warrior, man, I'm slipping on his name. Uh, but I took a picture with both of them. And the one guy that I met, he had this, these teeth marks out of his, uh, his knee, his kneecap. He, he had a big Rungu, which is a club, but it was, it was like a walking stick for him. And, uh, his knee was really swollen and it had these chunks out of it. And then, um, we, uh, I asked him what happened to his knee was really swollen, and it had these chunks out of it. And then I asked him what happened to his knee, and then he pulled over.

They always wear red because that way if they're ever wounded in battle or anything hits them, you don't know that they're bleeding. And so he pulled down his shuka, which is like a robe of sort for the warrior class, and he pulled it down, and down his shoulder blade in the back of his shoulder, he had claw marks, I mean just wicked claw marks and so the the lion had attached onto his shoulder onto his thigh and then bit into his knee so he showed me those scars yeah yeah man and the the head warrior is the one that saved the other warrior and that's the spear that i have hanging up in my house wow so as the lion was biting him home warrior. And that's the spear that I have hanging up at my house. Wow.

So as the lion was biting him, homeboy jacked him with the spear. Yeah, came after him. And this one, it wasn't even on a lion hunt. This was just, they were going after, or they were tending the fields, tending the flock, and a lion came after the guy. Dude, fuck cats. That's all I have to say. Fuck all cats.

Yeah, I'm more of a dog guy. Yeah, I'm way more of a dog guy. I have chickens right now. I just got little baby chicks. What? That's awesome. My little girls, they wanted to get chickens, so we decided to get a little chicken coop sort of situation.

But the fucking cat, I have two cats, and my one cat, this motherfucker, just paces in front of that door left and right. It doesn't matter if he's trained. It doesn't matter if he's trained. It doesn't matter if he's sweet and he purrs. He can't wait to murder one of those birds. He just can't get it out of his head. Like, in his head, he's got to get in there and fit.

He hears them. He sits out in front of the door and meows. And, you know, it's almost like you want to kick his ass. You're like, come on, man. Why don't you fucking leave them alone? They're little chicks. But in his DNA, there is just no stopping that. That's what he wants to do.

Yep. Have you ever seen a lion? Yeah. I've seen two different times. I've seen two. And one time they were sitting over a, it was either a cape buffalo or a, what is it, a water? Water buffalo.

Water buffalo. I think it was a water buffalo. And it was still chomping down on that, and so it wasn't paying attention to us. I had my spear, though, but I wasn't going to test it out. Like, some guys were trying to get me to go over there. Have you practiced with it? I have practiced with it, but I'm not going to use it, man.

Like, I'm not. They already gave me the ceremony and gave me the spear and made me a warrior. In fact, the other ones, they can't be a warrior until they kill a lion. So they come back with a female tail, waving it. And if it's a male, they come back with the mane wrapped around them. Yeah.

You've got to be a lion killer to be a warrior. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Until then, you're kind of a lesser class male. You should bring a boomstick we're such pussies in this country yeah so i thought i was a warrior that's why i try to connect with them you know hey i fought and i we they wrestle they just do takedowns though they don't do any

like ground fighting did you show them some moves i did i did i wrestled two at the same time and picked them both up uh so they thought that's how they thought i was a warrior because they were like oh wow he's wrestling. Like, we can't. Did you submit them? They had a line of them. Did you submit anybody? Did you teach them how to tap?

Man, no. For me, I would just pick them up and put them over my shoulder. I did that with both of them at the same time once. You've got to remember, they're skinnier dudes. But no, I did start to put one in a guillotine choke. But then I started thinking, man, this guy killed a lion. He's not going to tap. Right, right. And so I'm like, I'm thinking, man, this guy killed a lion. He's not going to tap. Right, right, right.

So I'm like, I'm not going to hurt this guy. I'm just going to play around with him. So is he trying to wrestle with you? Oh, yeah. He just can't figure out your sprawl. Yeah, yeah. You get double underhooks. He's like, what is he doing?

They're trying a couple different kinds of collar ties and trips. Yeah. And then they do almost like a tie clinch. Really? And so they do that, and they just kind of like um circle each other and uh they just do that amongst the the warrior class just uh almost like a ranking system of sorts so uh but you should be able to go in there and school those dudes and yeah when it came to wrestling create a whole elite team yeah of masai warriors a kenyan wrestling team that'd be pretty crazy that'd be pretty It's like, you could be like your own Sandra Bullock movie.

A white guy goes over there, teaches them how to wrestle, brings them to the state championship. They got leaves for shoes. Mizungu. Teaching Masai how to fucking tap people. Yeah. They probably don't understand. There's probably so many different techniques you can use on them. They don't see coming, right?

Oh, yeah. But the craziest thing is that they have all these cactuses and briar bushes all around them. So inside the village, the wrestling was okay. But it would happen anywhere and anytime. I remember I had those five-finger shoes on. I stepped right on a briar bush and it went straight through the sole of it and into my toe. I'm like, come on, guys. You just said it. We're used to the mats. I'm like, come on, guys. Let's at least...

You just said it. We're used to the mats. We're used to the sissy stuff. Those guys are just... They're probably barefoot too, right? Yeah, they're barefoot. I got shoes on. I got hiking boots on. I have everything. When they step on a briar bush and they're barefoot,

they just walk it off? I don't know. I guess I'm the only one. Even while wrestling wrestling i'm not aware enough to know there's a briar bush around they must have ridiculously tough feet too right especially with the pygmies um the moss i too but a lot of the moss i now are getting uh sandals made out of tires so like tires that blow out really they'll uh they'll make it out of the the rubber from the tire but the pygmies they don't have access to stuff like that especially because they don't have anything to bargain or barter with they don't have goats they don't have cows they and they're slaves so they are mostly barefoot all the time and they're running through the jungle and stuff like that and

so they're the soles of their feet actually almost look like the soles of shoes almost i mean not not i mean they don't have the gripping and stuff, but they're thick. They're really thick. Have you ever seen that show where there's two dudes, I think they call it dual survivor or something like that? Dual survivor? I don't remember.

The Cody. Cody Landon or Landau or I don't know. Whatever homeboy's name is, but he walks everywhere barefoot. Yeah, he's got pigtails, big gorilla-looking dude. He does it in cold weather, snow, I mean, crazy stuff. Barefoot, everywhere. Pigtails. Yeah. Yeah. He's got pigtails, big gorilla looking dude. He does it in cold weather, snow. I mean, crazy stuff.

Everywhere. I saw the one, and because I'm trying to learn from those guys, some survival stuff, which the pygmies know more than anybody, but while I'm here, you know, learning from that show and they did like the swamps of like Louisiana or

something. And there was all these water moccasins and all this stuff. And he's barefoot in there. He's walking through and poisons, spiders and all the first and he's barefoot in there he's walking through and poison spiders and first time i saw him scared like he was he was terrified walking through that yeah one bite from one of those crazy fucking animals that live down there and you're done you got a lot of that in the congo as well i've watched some documentaries of the congo i mean this is the only place in the world where they have spiders that move in packs oh yeah yeah and then uh their ants man are pretty crazy my buddy i took

with me um he went to to take a dump behind a tree and he put his uh he put his back against the the tree and he had these ants uh crawl up and just start biting them uh like these ants though make you bleed they're they're chompers on them like literally um and what's what's the most brutal part is they try to find the softest spot to bite or something with their sensors. And so whenever they came up my leg, I didn't notice them because of how fast they are. I didn't notice them until two were on my left nipple, and I was like pulling

this thing off. And, I mean, I'm having to pull the ant out. And whenever I finally got it off, I literally was bleeding. From a fucking ant. An ant, yeah and they they travel in these things like i'm talking about they look like roads so sometimes the the path that you're walking on if it's a pygmy path they're small really really small sometimes the the it's wider than the path of ants like i mean like a road a road of ants like this thick and i mean the ants are like this like this long and about an inch long yeah but there's millions of them that they make these

roads that are like wide that answer goddamn terrifying yeah they really are brian callan a good buddy of mine was working i think in bornea i think he said it was i forget where it was it was in some jungle but he said they would have to put it in congo no i don't believe so but they had to put turpentine over the posts of the they had to suspend their tents put turpentine over the post so the ants didn't climb up them he said when you were lying in bed at night you would hear the ants walking through the forest yeah that's absolutely you can hear them you can hear them without a doubt yeah i mean it that's the part see that, that's why I know I'm passionate about this and that I really feel like this is my life's purpose.

Wow. Because I don't like creepy crawlies. I don't like stuff like that, man. And I think I sent a picture of a black mamba I almost stepped on, and luckily the pygmies killed it. It was in the middle of the night. And it was pretty crazy because all of a sudden I heard the hut next to me, which this tribe was a chief, and I heard his wife going nuts. And I would sleep with, I would actually sleep with, yep, there it is.

That's the black mamba. That almost got you? Yeah, it was like five or six feet long probably. Did you guys eat that thing? See, I thought about it. See, they believe trees and snakes, uh, are their ancestors. And so even though they killed the snake, if it's a Python, they won't kill it. They'll, they won't kill a Python.

They'll drag it to where it's safe. Uh, the only Python I've heard of them killing was whenever they had gone fishing and then they had it almost on like a stringer of sorts. And then a big Python came by and took their fish. And then the guy was so mad, he killed that Python. Um, but the pygmies were mad at him for killing a Python, uh,

because they aren't poisonous, but the black mom is, they know how dangerous they are. I think it's like 20, 30 minutes and you're gone. And those things can get up to like eight or 10 feet long. And then the fastest snake in the world, one of the most venomous.

So the fastest, most aggressive, one of the longest. And, uh, so it just seems like Congo, man, like everything. There's some of the most beautiful places in the world. I mean, the mountains covered on the equator covered with, I mean, the most gorgeous trees, uh, silverback gorillas. I mean, just some beautiful stuff there, but then there's some dangerous stuff.

You've run into silverback gorillas in the wild? No, I haven't. I haven't. I've, I think they said I've heard, we've heard them and we've heard definitely monkeys. Um, but I haven't seen the gorillas. Have you ever heard of gorillas in the wild? No, I haven't. I haven't. I think they said we've heard them, and we've heard definitely monkeys, but I haven't seen the gorillas. Have you seen monkeys? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, a lot.

Yeah, the Maasai, not the pygmies, but the Maasai actually will target practice with their rungus, their clubs. They'll throw those at the monkeys. Poor monkeys. Yeah. The monkeys get no fucking slack. It's just like the pygmies. The pygmies, the monkeys, the little guys get picked on.

Yeah, and actually that black mamba that was up there, I heard them going nuts. And so whenever I got up and I crawl out of my hut, which, I mean, those things for me to get inside sometimes have to be on my elbows. And so I start getting out of it, and I'm like, what's going on? And I had a video of it, and I actually cut it off right before I asked the question, but I didn't know what kind of snake it was. I thought black mambas were black, like just black, but it's actually their mouths when they open their mouths. It's like pitch black inside their mouth. Even their like teeth are black. And so, um, that's how they got their name, black mambas. And so, uh, but they're, they're gray on top and then white on their belly. And so I didn't think it was a black mambaas and so uh but they're they're gray on top and then white on their belly and so i

didn't think it was a black mamba at all and so i was uh yeah i was getting out of my hut and then i got slapped in the belly uh and stopped and i didn't know what was going on until i got my phone on because it's pitch black look at that creepy picture yeah man that's the thing i almost stepped on and it's like 20 or 30 minutes and you're dead. Oh, what a creepy looking alien-like creature. And it only hit it in the back of the tail. And so it was still slithering around. Actually, I'll pull up the video. I don't think I uploaded it to anywhere, but maybe my phone.

So they won't eat these even though it's a source of protein and they're probably hungry. No, not at all. Are they edible though, black mambas? I don't know about black mambas. I know the pythons are. Rattlesnakes are actually pretty tasty. Yeah, I think if you cut it off far enough down from its head, then I bet it wouldn't be poisonous, but they weren't going to eat it at all.

Huh. Yeah, and then I asked on the, right before this video cuts off, I asked if it's poisonous. And so, yeah, I don't know if i can if i can email this so pretty much everybody there must know somebody who's been killed by something natural in that area oh yeah whether it's a crocodile or whether it's a lion or whether it's whatever the hell else is out there yeah the rivers close to the pygmies are full of crocodiles and hippos so crocodiles and hippos.

So crocodiles and hippos live in the same thing. Oh, hippos too, man. That's another problem, right? Don't hippos kill more people even than crocodiles? Yeah, a lot more. I got a video of hippos and crocodiles all in the same water hole, and the hippos are like swimming right next to the crocodiles, and they don't give a fuck about the crocodiles. They're remotely concerned.

I don't think hippos are concerned about anything. And I don't know if you know, but they do like a bark. I mean, it literally sounds like they're barking. Like a softer bark, not so like doggish, but it sounds like a bark. That's how hippos like communicate and stuff. And so like in the morning and in the afternoon, like towards like the sun setting and sun coming up, the hippos are barking.

And so you hear that. And so you hear that. So you hear your little leaf house. Yeah. And you hear these murderous giant pigs. Yeah. They're like, I think something like a pig or a cousin to a pig or some shit like that. Probably.

Yeah. Are they? I think they are. And I think there's even like pygmy hippos. So there's like pygmy hippos, pygmy crocodiles, pygmy monkeys, which are like the size of your finger. Wow. Like actual monkeys that are like that. Monkeys the size of your finger.

Yeah. Are you anywhere near that area of the Congo? I think it's called Bili. Do you know where that is? Bili? Bili, B-I-L-I. Bili is really close, B-E-L-I? Binnie is really close. B-E-N-I.

No, I don't think that's it. B-I-L-I. Have you heard of that chimpanzee that they found there? Oh, the one that's supposed to be massive. Yeah. I've heard stories from the pygmies talking about a human-type monkey. Not human-type. They weren't talking about Bigfoot.

And if they were, I guess they were talking about me. But no, they talk uh different kinds of animals and but they also talk about this seeing spirits and stuff like that right right but i mean i've asked them about i forget what they call it there's like an actual like swahili name that they call that uh that potential dinosaur of sorts yeah our friend david cho actually went out there looking for it a long time ago for vice. He went for vice.com and he, he went to look in the Congo for like a brontosaurus. Wow. Well, it's so crazy. They like, there's a saying the Congo is called the heart of darkness and, uh, on the dark continent. And they like the pygmies, I think are the ones that have the saying that

it's, I can't really say it eloquent like they do, but it's called, they say like it's basically hard for a fish to navigate through the rivers because of how thick everything is. And it's just hiking and everything is just, it's actually, I guess, better to be a pygmy because it's hard to move around, especially whenever you have like an 80-pound pack on your back. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to go. I haven't sent this picture in, but that's part of the ways that we get through, like 85 kilometers hiking and stuff. Wow. It's just so thick.

Yeah, people tried. Some European noblemen tried to live there. They tried to settle into the Congo because there's such a vast amount of resources. They tried to settle into the Congo because there was such a vast amount of resources. They just figured, look, we'll just carve out a little place and then make a house. And the forest just swallowed it all up. They just couldn't keep off. Yeah, I think in the late 1800s or early 1900s, that was whenever they went there for all the rubber and really slaughtered a lot of the Congolese.

And then since then, they came in for the gold and and diamonds and now they're there for the coltan and you can go through whole uh colonial like uh like settlements that are from like uh the from belgium and other places that have settled there and it's from like the early 1900s and it's just uh almost like ghost towns um but they're like the belgian colonization stuff and nobody lives there like trees are growing up through them and everything but they're brick buildings and the congolese don't live in brick buildings a lot of them don't unless you're more towards the city wow so um these pygmies that you talked to had they seen that big giant chimpanzee had any of them no i i i don't know i whenever i i heard lots of different stuff and normally they

open up around the campfire at night i would have to pretend sometimes to go to sleep um for the bantu slave masters or the kids to leave and so shalom university calls it campfire university for the pygmies because they'll open up and they'll be real around the campfire. And they'll actually, because if I ask them in front of, I had a chief of the Bantu come to me and welcome me. Well, first he was like, what do you want with my people? What do you want with my property? And then I told him I was just there to learn. I was with the university. We're there learning, doing research and just here to help and benefit.

And then he gave me an egg and told me he had a gift for me. And so he gave me just one single egg. It wasn't until, and I was so grateful and thankful because, you know, he gave me a gift and I was going to be able to eat it and everything else. And as I'm cooking it and, and the pygmies are helping me cook it. And after I eat it, they finally tell me around the campfire after I had pretended to go to sleep and then got up to come back around the campfire to talk for hours until we fall asleep around the campfire. Um, they finally told me, uh, that the, the egg they gave me wasn't the Bantu chiefs.

It was the pygmy chiefs and the pygmy chief had saved that to give to me because he heard that a visitor was coming. And so the Bantu chief, like just, you know, took his gift, completely stole it and acted like it was his. And really it was the pygmy chief and he was giving me everything that he had to give me because that's food for them. Like food's their livelihood. And that was a clean source of food. And so, yeah, it's just it's pretty messed up how they treat them. Wow.

That's got to be so strange for you to be around both of them, to be around the Bantu people. Yeah. Do you try to communicate that there's something wrong with this? Yeah, absolutely, man. And so in six of the places I went to, they referred to them as these are my slaves. These are my people. These are my property kind of sorts. Three of the places I went that were even deeper in the jungle, they said, what do you want with my animals?

Because they believe them to be so low class. I see them, man. The tribes that surround me, most of it's Bantu. Sometimes it's rebel. Sometimes it's other tribes. But they treat them worse than they treat their cattle than they treat their goat well they don't have cattle but they have goats and i don't know if that falls in the cattle category but uh but they treat their goats better than they treat pygmies that's insane

and they've always done this this is just well the pygmies used to never have to depend on the bantu so this is why i mean on the ug some people have really been uh they're really interested and they've been trying to find out what kind of slavery there is. And the slaves that we've been able to set free, they weren't in shackles and they weren't held to gunpoint. Like, I don't know how to do that with the rebels yet. Maybe in the year I'm there, um, I can befriend them. Like I had to befriend the, uh, slave masters. So they would want to, to learn and stuff. Um, and so with the Bantu people, we just had to sit there and say like, Hey, you know, these are people like I'm an educated guy

from the United States. I'm not really that educated, but, uh, but the Shalom university guys, those four guys I'm with to have master's degrees and to have a doctorates. So they're really educated and they're the ones leading the university. So I'm like, these guys are knowledgeable. And I came from the U.S. These are actually people, like fully human beings. And the Bantu eyes will get big like, what? And then they'll see us treating them like humans, treating them like they have value, treating them like they should be treated. And so it starts to change some of the things.

And the pygmies are more slave to the Bantu through circumstance. They used to not depend on them. They used to be hunters and gatherers and not have to worry about it. But whenever I can see the sun at times and it sounds like this earth quaking thunder going on all throughout the day, thunder going on,

but I see the sun, it's not raining on me. I'm like, why is there thunder? And then we finally get close enough to where we see some of the deforestation going on. And these are trees that you could drive two Mack trucks through, you know? And they're cutting these trees down. And whenever those things fall, it sounds like thunder. And so the animals just flee.

I mean, and I think last I heard, and I don't know that it's scientific. Maybe someone can find it. But I think they said that the deforestation in the Congo, the second largest rainforest in the world, heard and i i don't know that it's scientific maybe someone can find it but uh but i think they said that the deforestation in the congo the second largest rainforest in the world um is up to the size of texas or over texas in the last like 15 20 years last 15 20 years man they've deforested the size of texas and i've seen it i've gone to places where it's just big lush awesome forest and then you go to this place and it's just like wrecked. And it goes from like looking like the rainforest to now it's looking like this might turn into like desert-y kind of stuff.

Because like they've just, it's barren. And no one does any or makes any attempt to replenish the forest. No, not at all. And see, that is why the rainforest conservationists, the wildlife preservationists are getting involved in ways that they're trying to buy up that land and protect it. And I agree with that. That's why I feel like what Shalom's wanting to do and what I'm wanting to partner with him, it's an all-encompassing thing where it's like human slave liberation. It's rainforest preservation and wildlife conservation. It's attractive to all those people.

There must be a tremendous amount of money that they're making from those trees, though, no? Oh, massive amounts. I mean, some of those are very rare woods. Other things that they're using it for is charcoal. See, in the Congo, since they don't have electric plants and things like that, they have to cook. For them to cook, if they burn up wood, it's not as long lasting or as hot as charcoal. So I have a picture of a woman that was a slave for charcoal and she had to, her slave master put this bag of maybe 120 pounds minimum. I mean, the bag of

charcoal was taller than she was. I mean, a pygmy woman is small. I don't know if you can pull up the one Chaibu Siku, the picture that says Chaibu Siku. But I mean, these are small people and they're carrying bags of charcoal where two slave masters put it on their back, tie a rope around their head. And this woman having to walk four or five kilometers on these little paths carrying this charcoal and they'll cut down the trees to make charcoal. They'll cut them down and they'll start a fire and, but they'll put like dirt over the fire and it smolders. And it, I don't know if it's a week long process or a few day long process, but it makes it just a long burning. And so that's how most people cook in the Congo and in Rwanda and in Uganda and in Burundi and those places will get charcoal from the

Congo jungle because there's so much wood. They don't even think about it. Wow. Yeah. What a fucking trip. So these, these poor people that are, are just recently slaved, these, uh, these poor people, these poor pygmies before that, they, they were be they were able to hunt and gather they were able to do everything were they treated as people then uh i would say they were treated a lot

better but still they've never been believed to be um fully human they've always thought of them as subhuman part monkey part um part man and uh the thing is that with the bantu uh the relationship the bantu and pygmies used to have is they would trade the pygmies were master hunters and they still are if there was more wildlife this was especially but they would go hunt bushmeat and then they would come to the bantu what's's bushmeat? Bushmeat, like some monkeys, also antelope and just anything wild game inside of. So that's Chibusiku that you just put up. That's my mom in the tribe. Whoa.

That's a grown woman. Yeah, she's in her mid-40s. She's probably as old as my mom is. Wow. My mom, I think, is 46. So that's Chibusiku, and she's awesome. Wow. That was her first picture ever taken of her.

So, uh, I have some other ones where she's smiling, but that, that's the one that shows her, uh, her size. So that's how they got their name, uh, pygmy, which is elbow height. So they really are just like the bullied people of the world. Oh yeah, man. The most bullied people in the world. I mean, I, I, there was times that I've gotten sick to my stomach hearing the stories that have happened to them. And that's what I was saying. They would go hunt and then they would come to the edge of the forest where the Bantu are. And the Bantu grow corn, grow beans, and they would basically want some side dishes to go with their meat.

And so they would trade sometimes like the wild plants that they would gather. trade sometimes like the the the wild plants that they would gather um and they would come and trade their either bushmeat or their hunted animals and their different kinds like mushrooms and stuff and they'd trade it with the bantu peoples for some corn or beans or rice or uh cassava leaves which they can make uh ugali out of um it's like kind of paste like thing that takes on the flavor of the meat and uh they would they would have a trading relationship. Sometimes Bantu would go find the pygmies because they wanted some meat and they weren't the best, uh, shepherds. And so they could grow the corn and beans, but they wanted some meat. And so that's how the relationship started. And then they started to get exploited whenever they could no longer hunt like they, they, they, they really can.

Um, the animals started fleeing, uh, in the wildlife conservationist and, and rainforest preservationists are trying to push them towards the road. They made a bunch of promises. Uh, I mean, a lot of these NGOs, uh, that had their special interest would promise the pygmies. If you go off this deep forest, if you let us have this, um, we'll take care of you whenever you're closer to the road we'll make sure you you're taken care of and then they just never took care of them and then the bantu buy up the land from underneath them and then enslave them say you're on our land you work it and so it's just kind of a whole crazy how do

these people feel about you taking off going to to America to let everybody know about them and then flying back again? I mean, this must be so bizarre for them. Yeah, well, that's what's crazy. At first, every, all the nine, well, I've been to more than nine, but the last time I went, I went to nine different tribes of pygmies, nine villages. Each one of them had never seen a white dude before. So that scares them. I mean, there'd be times that it would take an hour, maybe even sometimes a little over an hour before someone in that, that tribe, most of the time it was always women or children,

uh, that would finally come up to me and touch me to make sure they don't go through me like I was a spirit or a ghost of some sort. Um, and then once one person felt me and I'd play a game with them or something like that, then more would, I mean, literally come out from hiding behind trees, come out from, uh, from the forest. Whenever I come in, sometimes they would flee, run, cry, kids like flailing on the ground, like just freaked out by me. Um, but whenever I'd make friends with them, uh, then they would ask me one thing. Every place that I went, in all nine tribes, they asked me, will I help them have a voice? That was the thing.

They're like, we have no voice here. They're the only tribe not allowed to have their citizenship in Congo. And so they have zero voice. Wow. What a strange turn your life has taken. You've gone from being on the house and the ultimate fighter you know competing in the heavyweight version of the show to now living in a grass hut yeah in the congo what a that's a strange or a leaf hut rather

what a strange journey you're on man yeah and to be honest i wouldn't change it. I mean, especially with this video going viral and with yesterday us talking about a book deal and today I went out to lunch with a publicist that really worked on The Blind Side and the movie Invincible and I forget some other big-time blockbusters that he worked on. But I mean, people are saying that this is a kind of crazy story.

And the whole thing is that. It's a Sandra Bullock movie, man. Yeah, there we go. I'm going to have her play me. That's what I'm saying. Why is Justin a chick? Yeah. Well, we polled it.

And people are more likely to believe that there's more vulnerable situations. You get this giant MMA fighter going to the Congo, kicking people's asses. That ain't right. Yeah. Yeah, no. Man, I just, the wild turn is, man, I just feel like it's something that I can be fully wholeheartedly passionate about. And I'm fulfilled doing it. And when I say they're my family, I mean it.

Oh, you seem very, very sincere. How old are you, Justin? 25. So this is a good time. You don't have kids. You don't have responsibilities. You can go and just follow your desire and your passion and your interest here. Yeah.

The only thing that really, I mean, I have a future wife. Got to find her. What's that? You got to find her or she's here. I have her. I have her in dallas jesus christ she's in dallas and you're going to the fucking congo for a year yeah so how does she think about that um at first well at first she was pumped then uh she she's done like some different

trips around the world and has gone and helped uh orphanages and in mexico and she kind of has a heart to maybe one day start an orphanage. Um, and so she's got a great heart, man. She's awesome. She's gorgeous. Um, but, uh, this, this first time I went, um, I went one time before we started, uh, dating. And then the second time I went, uh, it was, it was hard. It was hard for her. Cause she started doing some research, started finding out that, uh, the Congolese people call it the African Holocaust. That's what they call it. Because depending on what stat you look at, they say it surpasses the death toll of the Jews in the Holocaust, which is pretty crazy.

But some stats say 6.8 million Congolese in the last 10 years. Some say over 5 million, but it's between 5 million and 7 million, man. And so it really is like one of the, if not the, it is the worst conflict zone. Last year in 2012, because then she was saying, maybe I'll go with you. And I was like, yeah. And then maybe we'll talk about that. But the stat for 2012 was that over 400,000 women were raped in the Congo. It's 58 women every 60 minutes. Yeah.

So you can't bring your woman to the Congo. No, especially not. The Congo is the most dangerous Walmart parking lot in the world. And so it's been a crazy journey. It's made us both grow a lot in our relationship too. Me being gone for that month there and her, you know, sitting there and thinking about, am I okay? Because I had no contact.

So all this different stuff. We've really been on a journey. And we were talking about even getting married before I went. And then now we're talking about waiting until I get back from the year. But it's just something I know I got to do. Are you going to come back at all during that year? So far, no. Spring break? Yeah, spring break. But it's just something I know I got to do. Are you going to come back at all during that year? So far, no.

Spring break? Yeah, spring break. Actually, my girlfriend's sister is getting married, and I might want to come back for that. Wow. But so far, no. And it depends on my visa. Luckily, with Shalom University, I might be able to get a student visa. I might be able to do something with a school to get a year-long visa.

But if I can't get a year-long visa, I might have to come back. And you have no income while you're doing all this. No, man. The last year and a half, man, I've honestly felt like I was just a nut. Well, not a nut. I knew it was right, but I felt like a lone nut. Like everybody, people would be like, oh, that's really good, but why don't you go back to fighting?

I mean, I've won my last three fights, and then I took some time off to go see the world and see what people I could fight for. And I couldn't find anyone better to fight for than the pygmies cause they're the worst off people group on the planet. And, uh, but yeah, man, it's, it's been a crazy journey, you know, from people, a family from close friends, all saying I'm an idiot for giving up fighting and I could actually do it well. And, um, at grudge training center going from, from being invited there after the ultimate fighter to then being kicked off of it when I was a drug addict to then being invited back onto it. Uh, and then, um, me saying, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to leave and go, go here. And then they'll be like, what are you doing? You know, uh, my coach, Trevor Whitman, he's awesome. I love that dude.

It's very, very good coach, bro. He's one of the best guys I know as a person too. He's just incredible. Him and his wife have big giving hearts. And we set up three different hospital visits for the grudge fight team. I was an official volunteer at the Denver Children's Hospital. So we went there three different times as an official like whole team. And so that was great. That was how I started showing them, hey, I've really made a life change here. I'm no longer the drug addict that was coming in here. And, uh, and I mean,

we're actually a depressed drunk drug addict, try to take my own life, all this different stuff. And what were you, what were you addicted to? Was addicted to a bunch of pills, a bunch of pain pills. I had three different doctors that would, that would give me scripts. And, uh, I had one doctor that would give me a hundred at a time a time uh and i could go to all three of 100 at a time no joke which pills uh well hydrocodone a lot but then also um i even got into like harder stuff like hydrocodone is that vicodin yeah and then and then uh and then oxy and um i mean oxy's the hardest right yeah bro i i don't i don't remember two to two and a half months of my life like just there's no, except for there's one hazy memory, and it was from my best friend at the time,

and we're building that relationship back. But my best friend at the time, the guy that got me into fighting, my first fight was because he was in the hospital, and he couldn't make it to the fight. He had a staph infection where they almost thought he was going to lose his leg. It was that bad.

A lot of guys get that. Oh, man, yeah. And he got put to the side. Like they literally thought we might have to take his leg. It was deep into his leg it was that bad a lot of guys get that oh man yeah and he got he got he got put to the side like they literally thought we might have to take his leg uh it was deep into his like oh they thought it might have been in his femur bone oh my god yeah so he was laid up man and uh and then i went to the to the promoter told him he's out then the guy started talking trash he just ended up in the hospital one day early and the promoter had watched me wrestle it was in oklahoma and so he knew my high school wrestling coaches who were both two olympic gold medalists both wrestled oklahoma

state were national champions there kenny monday and kendall cross and uh kenny monday fought mma for a while yeah yeah he was one of my training partners too whenever i was in coaches whenever i was fighting um he's been a coach of mine since I was 15 years old. Uh, and then, yeah, anyways, the guy, uh, his name is Justin McCorkle. I think he's like a four and one, uh, pro MMA heavyweight. And, um, yeah, I missed his wedding, not just being there, but being the best man. And I remember I had an eight minute voicemail. I made it like 10 seconds through because it said something like, you missed my wedding. And then I'm like, oh freak, you know?

And then it paused and he goes, you missed being my best man. And then I just remember hanging up and going straight back to the drugs. And so I had my medical marijuana license for three years, which I'm cool with people having that. But I went with, I would always piggyback everything. like I would the reason grudge voted me off the team was I started waking up and fixing my steel-cut oats fixing my egg whites getting my berries putting in the steel-cut oats um fixing all that but then uh starting on my vaporizer before practice and then hitting uh the pain pills and then starting with uh washing it down with hard liquor man and so then I go train and they knew it they knew i was sweated out

out of my poor was coming liquor um they knew that i mean how would you train like that bro i don't know i mean i was going through a literal when i say depression i mean like the darkest deepest um most desperate time of my life and what was that being caused by? Selfishness? I don't know, man. A lot of different things that didn't make sense to me. I grew up at 13 years old. I was heavily bullied. That's when I found the UFC. 13, I sat at the lunch table by myself, had people throw stuff at me.

I was invited to my middle school crush's birthday party, and it was a costume party. I got the invitation. I'm uh, I was invited to my middle school crushes like a birthday party and, uh, and it was a costume party. I got the invitation. I'm like, no way. It's a costume party wins a prize. And I remember her dad worked for Dr. Pepper and, um, she loved transformer. So I came to the party as a Dr. Pepper transformer, like with the Dr. Pepper cardboard and made out of, uh, made out of duct tape and Dr. Pepper boxes. And, uh, I got there and I was 30 minutes late. Everyone was pointing, laughing, calling me an idiot. And that was whenever I was probably, I guess maybe in the first fight of my life, uh, was suicidal thoughts. Cause they were like, you're so worthless. You should just kill yourself. Um, 13.

Oh, bro. Yeah. I mean, I left there. Oh, I are no cell phones. So I walked and I got to Dairy Queen. I lived in the country. So they call that the Texas stop sign, Dairy Queen. And so I went to Dairy Queen and I think I remember one of the employees coming out to throw away trash. And I'm like sitting there behind the Dairy Queen, right in between kind of the dumpster. And then they're like, what's going on? And I was just sobbing. And then I went inside and called my mom. She wasn't there for a little bit, had to sit in there. They asked what was going on. Anyways, that was a big left turn, but that's when I found the UFC. And I thought maybe a few weeks after that. And I thought these guys don't get bullied. These guys are like modern day gladiators. And I was, I mean, I was mesmerized by the sport of it

because i loved sports and i always played sports growing up um but this was multiple sports put in one and i'm like man if i could just become one of those guys i'll have all the passion the purpose the significance the i'll never be this dude that i am right now and uh i'll be the exact opposite and so i set out for that and started at 15, start wrestling under two Olympic gold medalists, 17, won my first national championship. 18 was living back and forth with Olympic training center, 19 started fighting professionally. 21, I was on the ultimate fighter, 22, um, fighting 23 is main event at the hard rock and another promotion. And I think every time I got my hand raised, and it got worse as this drug problem got on, but I stopped looking forward to even the victories of fighting.

I started looking forward to the parties after the fight. And then I started thinking like, I don't know, every time I get my hand raised, if you can find a picture of me or a video of me smiling after a fight, that would be the first for me because i don't think i smiled after any of them wow i was always looking towards the next one you know most guys jumping up smiling screaming when was your issue with uh with drugs was it after the ultimate fighter it was it was before and after it got really bad after and i mean it got brutal after i uh actually the the week of my john i don't know if i've ever i told loretta hunt this um a couple of days i did an interview for sports illustrated and uh um the week of my john madsen fight i was taking handfuls of pills and i was uh and and some guys can function um and and fight and everything me though i i would piggyback everything if i got if i got high i needed i

needed the pills or i needed a drink or i never did one thing that was my that was a huge problem of mine i always piggybacked it i had to have something else and uh so i was doing that the week of my john madsen fight for the finale well you were there and i was high that week and uh and the pain pills like lots of pain pills like the day before. I didn't the night, the day of. How did you not test positive? They didn't test me on that one. They tested me when I fought at the Hard Rock, but at that one they didn't test.

They only tested the main events. Wow. I think that was the time that the commission. The commission. Yeah. Or even the, I think the commission hit a time where they didn't test everybody on the card. They were only going to do like the main event fights or something like that. And then I was kind of in that window.

Wow. Yeah. That's crazy, man. What would happen if they did test you? Oh, I would have failed big time. Just like a lot of the other guys do. But I mean, not a lot of the other guys. But you knew you weren't going to be tested.

Is that why you kept taking the pills? Probably would have taken them anyway. Yeah, I would have taken them anyway. I didn't care. I never did any sort of steroids. Never. I already felt empty enough, I guess, with some of the victories. And I think whenever he got real bad was after that Roy Nelson fight on the Ultimate Fighter and Dana and Rampage and Rashad and Coach T and basically everybody except Roy was telling me that it should have, well, that I won or that it should have gone to a third round at least, because I think one judge thought I won, two thought he won. It was a split and we only went two rounds. And for me, this was my dream. And, and so whenever that was taken from me and I felt like it was taken in a wrong way, then what really got bad

was after the Madsen fight, I lost a split decision again. So two back to back, I just, I lost it and i went straight i mean i don't even remember that week in vegas what started you off on pills in the first place were you was it an injury yeah this right here um so do you know how many times i've heard that man well guy gets injured his doctor puts him on pills carl prezian same story yeah went off the deep end. How goddamn addictive are these pills? And they're just handing them out to people. I remember

I bet my mom would confirm it, but whenever this happened, I was 18 and I was living at the Olympic Training Center and I wrestled against a world champion. I didn't give up a point. It was kind of like I could have given up a point. It would have been similar to I could have tapped or let it snap, but I just didn't want to give up

a point. So I let my arm snap. And anyways, I probably took at least a month worth of the oxycodones in a week. After that, I went back, probably took three weeks worth. What happened to your arm? What position was it in? It was just wrestling, right? Greco-Roman wrestling. So have you ever seen a gut wrench like sure greco how they go to turn somebody um so i was fighting it explain it to people who don't know anything if you don't know it i was i was uh on my belly a guy who maybe uh took me down and and once he's on your back he goes to do a gut wrench he wraps around your ribs and he starts to crank down with his shoulder on the back of your shoulder blades.

You're trying to fight it. So your back doesn't, uh, break 90, it breaks 90 degrees and your back angles towards the mat. Uh, the guy gets two points or maybe one point sometimes. Uh, but I didn't want to have my,

uh, back break 90 to where he get any points. So I just let it keep fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting. And I tried to do this hop thing.

And whenever I went to do the hop, that's whenever all his weight came down on it super experienced guy he was like 33 34 and i was 18 at the olympic training center where he was a world champion olympic bronze or silver medalist and it just snapped whenever it snapped it went completely behind my back one of my buddies at the olympic training center puked because of it and uh so i was laying on it completely behind my back like if i was on the bat uh the mat right now it was completely behind my back except it was this way oh my god part yeah this whole part of my arm it was wicked this whole part of my arm was under my back so it broke it it dislocated it and it tore the ulinary collateral ligament um so they did a nerve transposition. So I have no more funny bone.

They moved it to where it's right here. So if I talk on the phone too long, these three nerves go numb. Or I'm sorry, these three fingers go numb. And then they took a, they were going to do, is it a cadaver or cadaver? Cadaver. Cadaver. So they were going to use a cadaver. Cadaver nerves?

That's zombie shit. No, for the torn ligament the ucl the ulinary collateral ligament but then instead they use the uh there's like three tendons in your hamstring that are kind of like this and they took the center one out and they said a tendon is stronger than a ligament and like we want to put something strong in there if you're wanting to be an olympic caliber athlete um and they said that that was actually maybe a harder chance for it to take um but it was the best chance to take instead of a cadaver, which might be a weaker or smaller person than me.

Your body could reject it. Right. Like Dominic Cruz would have a cadaver graft nine months in. Yeah, brutal. Blows it out, has to do it all over again. Yeah, and so they wanted to use that tendon because it was stronger. And he said, and it's going to be from your leg. And he goes, and you want to fight someday?

And I go, yeah. And he said, well, this will be like you're kicking someone in the face then. And I'm like, okay, that sounds pretty sweet. But yeah, so that's whenever the drug problem probably started. I remember I was piggybacking even then, kind of started going into depression because I thought, man, did I just lose my Olympic dreams and my MMA dreams? And I was doing all the oxycodones. And how old were you at this time when you hurt yourself? 18.

18, yeah. So you're 18 years old, no drug problem before. No. Get on the pills and boom, you're off to the races. I had smoked some weed before and I drank, but I was never. No, nothing where I had to have anything. I have people in my family that have had the same issue. A guy got injured and all of a sudden taking pills for his back and he's a fucking loser now.

I mean, he's just gone. He was a normal guy and now he's a loser. And I've met so many people that know somebody that has that same story or that have that same story, and then, like you, pulled themselves out of it. It's so terrifying. It's so terrifying how they're just handing out some of the most addictive medication

that the world has ever known. That really is what it is. It's brutal, man. Heroin. It's heroin. Yeah, and I would drive on it. I would, uh, man, I, and I know that's the, you, Hey, you should have that reaction. I have that reaction to me now, looking back at my life and, and, and just, I mean, I don't know,

thank God that I didn't, I didn't kill somebody or a family or, but I remember the time that I really wanted to end it. I just took a handful of the hydrocodones. I was taking Adderall too. And then I was drinking straight. Actually, I didn't drink it straight, but I had it in a Sonic cup, but it was Everclear. It was like a strawberry slush. Yeah, brutal.

God damn, Justin Randall's at a party. I told you, motherfucker's got a dead pig on his shoulder. That's the guy to hang out with. And then I had my tinctures. You know what tinctures are? Sure. Yeah, and so I had those. And so I just took it all.

I'm driving. My God, that's a crazy combination. Oh, yeah. What a confusion in your mind. You had a civil war going on in your brain. I did, and I blacked out driving. Dude, I've been so low that I've woke up in a drug house up in kind of uh outside on the outskirts of summit county um and uh oh you used to did you live in boulder yeah

yeah so you know where summit county is then with like breckenridge and yeah um keystone uh so woke up there oh man i loved it god's country yeah i wish uh yeah i'm in texas right now so congo is going to be beautiful too but but I miss Colorado. Congo is another level. Congo is a different level of life. It's like so vibrant and green and rainy and everything like that. Yeah. I don't know if you know this. This is a completely different subject. But in Uganda, right on the border of where I'm at, it's on the equator.

It is the jungle, but there's mountains that are so high that they're, I think, the only glaciers that you can find on the equator. So there's like actual glaciers in Uganda, in Africa. On the equator. On the equator, right outside the jungle. What the fuck? Yeah. So there's glaciers. That's insane.

Yeah. So anyways, that's completely random. What made you straighten up? What made you sober up? I knew I was going to die. That was one thing. Uh, how'd you do it? How'd you clean up? Uh, for me personally, um, I, I had this guy that, that was just brutal, man. He, uh, brutal in a way, like he was relentless. He was just coming after me, man, saying that I had a purpose to live for, um, saying that, you know, uh, he told me this and I remember, I'll always remember this.

It's my buddy named Jeff Duncan. He'll probably be watching this. He's a awesome dude, man. Has a great family, great wife, great kids. Um, and he told me, Justin, you're in the battle for your life. Like if you, this life is a battleground, not a playground. If you treat it like a playground, you will lose the battle for your life like if you this life is a battleground not a playground if you treat it like a playground you will lose the battle and then he started talking to me like what's your game plan for victory here i'm like man i got a perfect game plan right like i mean

thank god that guy didn't find brian he'd be like i know no i'm not no no battle i'm here to play. That's right. What the fuck? What am I going to lose at? Eating too much pussy? So he told you that you have to find your purpose. Yeah, he said I had to find a purpose and that I had a purpose. What does this gentleman do?

He's a roofer. He's a childhood friend. Actually, he's a childhood friend and, uh, not actually he's even older. Like I had some family friends and a dad, a guy that was like a second dad to me and his kids are some of my best friends. And, um, and Jeff was kind of in that, that core group, but he had heard through the grapevine, uh, that my mom had come and checked on me during that like two and a half period. And I think my, my dad might've came, but, uh, but she had broken into my house that was in Colorado, not broken in, but she had broken into my house that was in Colorado, not broken in, but she just was able to get through the back door, saw the drugs, saw the

pills, saw how I was living. And it looked like hoarders or just, just filthy. Um, and so she knew that he might be the one guy that could get to me and get through to me. And so he called me every single day for two months. I mean, called me a voicemail text me and emailed me wow and was pissing me off man i was getting livid with him wow uh and then whenever i got kicked off a grudge i got out to my phone and got out to my car i was like in angry tears i didn't know what to do um because like i was living my dream but it was a nightmare and my dream was reality but it was literally a nightmare right you're living your dream as a competitive mma fighter but you're also a drug addict i had i had transformed successfully i guess we can go back that i transformed successfully from that 13 year old loser that was invited to

the parties and now i was that maybe quote unquote modern day gladiator ultimate fighter mixed martial artist and uh and somehow i wasn't fulfilled somehow Somehow I was a depressed drug addict. And whenever I got to my car, I had a text message, voicemail, all this different stuff. Didn't want to hear from them. But the text message said, this was when your iPhone, it didn't just say text message on it. It would say like the actual message. And on the actual message on the screen, it said, check your email. Checked my email.

The very first thing said a game plan for victory. Um, and then whenever I opened it up, it said the best thing you'll ever do in your life. Uh, and it was a trip that was paid for. And I thought it was maybe like a, uh, detox detox kind of thing or a rehab or something like that. So I was interested and I just got kicked off a grudge. Um, I think Trevor was the only guy, maybe Brendan. No, I think there was like 30 guys or something. They got there early to vote on the day of sparring, to vote if I stay a part of the team

because some of the guys that had it with me. And T, Coach T brought me into his office and he said, bro, like we can't have our name attached to you anymore. Like I'm the only guy that wants you still a part. I could veto it maybe. I'm the head coach. But I'm not going to go against the guys.

And grudge is unique, man, because grudge is a family. I mean, and what I mean, like it's like I think for Elliot Marshall, we threw a surprise baby shower for him. I mean, and fighters throwing a baby shower for a fighter, you know, like that's just not normal. And a lot of fight gyms are, they're a bunch of gym hoppers and a bunch of selfish dudes and they're never going to give the coach the money or they're never going to, they're going to try and knock out their training partners. Like we, we just worked like a, had cookouts together, all this different stuff. But I was the one guy that was the,

that was the problem. And, uh, they voted me off and so man i was just i was empty i felt like man now my dream or my nightmare but my dream now that's even ripped away from me so now i had nothing you know i know that you've gone through some growth as a human as a man some spiritual development and character building and all that but i can't help but be terrified at how smart you are and how together and passionate you are but yet you still got hooked by these fucking pills yeah those goddamn things scare the shit out of me and i know you were a younger man at the time and you didn't you didn't have the life experiences you have now but you're not a loser so the fact that you got just sucked up into it like that it's so terrifying to

me yeah i mean they're they're dangerous, man. I think they should, I don't know how they could watch it better, you know? You can't. I shouldn't be able to go to three different doctors and have one giving me 100 at a time. I mean, you know what I mean? 100.

This is in Colorado. Yeah. At least they have databases. Yeah, I mean, I literally just go to three different pharmacies, three different doctors. Three different doctors, three different pharmacies. That was the whole topic of a Vanguard show called the OxyContin Express. Oh, I was on it. I was

aboard it, man. I was taking the train. It's about Florida. Oh, man. Because Florida had these things called pain management centers, where you would go to a doctor, and the doctor would say, what's wrong? Oh, I hurt my back. Well, you need a prescription for pain pills. So the doctor writes it in the same facility right next to that you leave the doctor's door the next door is the pharmacy that only sells oxycontin you go in there and you buy pain pills and they have these fucking pain management centers and they're all over the place so you essentially have these oxycontin addicts waiting in line at all these parking lots to get into these places and the places was

filled they were filled with poor people that were just hooked on these goddamn pills and i think i think for me uh i mean i appreciate you saying like you know you're not a loser smart guy or whatever i think but it's true i mean i'm listening to you talk you're you're obviously a smart guy well i appreciate that i think that worked in my advantage for my problem uh if that makes sense like it it fed it i was able to justify it yeah justify it and also but to the doctors even like articulate it i wasn't the same kind of guy they would classify as we got to watch this guy right he's a professional fighter he does have a bum elbow he's got a back problem he uh, yeah, we can trust this guy. What was your back problem? I actually, in my last fight, I herniated one disc and I bulged another.

And so I have an x-ray that they have. I messed up actually a bunch from the, mainly it was the thoracic, the thoracic and then one or two of the lumbar. But I have an x-ray of, from those pain management places. I think I had six different discs where they put these, uh, injections into my spine of cortisone, kind of like cortisone. I'm trying to think of the anti-inflammatory, some sort of steroidal anti-inflammatory. Absolutely. That was brutal because I was supposed to be in a twilight kind of sleep. And I woke up during it because he hit something. And I just remember just ah, ah.

And then they put some more in me and I was out. We had Boss Rooten in here yesterday. Oh, that's awesome. And his right arm, it's like shriveled away because of neck injuries, because of disc injuries. Yeah. I used to get stingers all the time from wrestling. So amazing how many guys.

I have a bulging disc now in my neck and uh it's amazing talking to how many guys talking to people like asking how many guys also have the same injury or similar injuries or in their lower back or in their middle back or it's fucking everybody yeah it's crazy yeah and and man it's easy if you want to get if you want to get it uh you know fund your or whatever find your addiction and you want to find a way to feed that, you can. Yeah. If you want to find something to take a pill for, they'll get you. Absolutely. Even one of my doctors was in Iowa.

So two were in Colorado. One was in Iowa. I'd go there. My God. Man, that's terrifying shit. But it's for a lot of people out there that might be struggling with that very problem right now listening to this.

You know, hearing you, that you were able to pull yourself out of it, I guarantee you, you can inspire people to do the same. I hope so. And they can realize, they can listen to you and go, I want to be that guy.

I don't want to be this guy that I'm now, a slave to this bottle of pills that I have to figure out how to get every week. You know, I feel like that's one of the reasons I have that connection to the pygmies. Like I wasn't a slave to a Bantu, but I've, I've definitely been a slave to something. And, and so, yeah, if there is somebody that's watching, man, that you can get out of it because there's definitely hope. How did you, how did you do it? Did you go cold Turkey?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually, I went, I ended up going on that, uh, that kind of retreat of sorts with my buddy and, and he just loved on me, man, in a way that, uh, it was genuine. It was authentic. Where was the retreat? What'd you guys do? Have you ever heard of the Hallmark family or Hallmark cards? Sure. I know they're big in Texas. I don't know if they're big here, but it was actually their house or their ranch.

And it was, they kind of donated this ranch to be for all walks of life, kind of all beliefs and for people to come there. And it was a vision of this one guy that wants to just have a place where people's lives can be changed and stuff. And man, there's these, there's like 20, 30 guys that said that they are not that said, but they, they literally went to war for me and my, and my life and told me I had a life worth living. And it was, it was awkward, kind of not awkward, but just right at first I was like, what's up here. This is crazy. Um, but for me, I had a, I had a radical change, man. It wasn't a slow process. It was like I finally realized I have a life worth living. And my life can be for a bigger purpose than myself, than getting what I want when I want it. I can make a contribution to this planet, to this world, to people. I can not just fight against people.

I can fight for people. And that's what it was demonstrated in front of me at this retreat. Um, and I'm, I'm not, man, I have my own personal beliefs. Everyone does, man. Uh, but this was a, it was a Christian retreat. And for me, it changed my life, man, because, uh, these men weren't like, because bro, if you want to go into some jacked up religious background, I got it. These men weren't like, because, bro, if you want to go into some jacked up religious background, I got it. I've got a jacked up religious background. I have family that says, I mean, just crazy stuff.

Like you have instruments in your music. You go to hell if you have tattoos. I'm the only tattooed guy in my family. And I have a whole back piece and all this stuff. And I had another one where, so they're super like legalistic and rules. And this other one, when I'm 13 years old, I left a church camp, the only church camp I ever went to. I left a church camp with bruises on my neck because they tried to cast demons out of me. And then, yeah, yeah. And then I went to Catholic school and had a background where, you know, the parents were throwing keg parties for us.

And then I went there in this place, in this retreat, and I told the guy, bro, I don't need anything Christian, bro. I don't need it. I don't want it. Uh, I know your type. Like I don't, I don't, if I sit around a campfire and I hold hands with a bunch of sissies, punks and sissies and sing Kumbaya, what is that? What is that going to do for me? I need a real answer. I need some like real hope. And man, the guy gave me an answer where it was like, you know, uh, real people with real problems could really use a real God. Um, and for me, that just kind of struck a chord. He told me that if you, and this is, again, this is my beliefs and stuff, so I'm not throwing anything out there on anybody, but he told me, um, and it made sense to me, you've experienced the counterfeit and for counterfeit to mean anything, there's gotta be an authentic. And he told me, you know, if there's going to be a Folex, uh, watch made a fake Rolex,

there's gotta be a Rolex. And you've been around the fake stuff. You've been around the Folexes. You felt the weight of them and they broke on you. You you've seen it. And you, you sometimes got to get close enough to where it, to where it ticks or it has a smooth transition Other times you got to actually hold it because there's that smooth transition on the Rolex instead of ticking Other ones are so tricky. You actually got to feel the weight So what would you make an analogy to is the fake religious people the people that were the people that that that abused me? And there's a lot of religious people that abused people that judge people that all this stuff man And and for me and what this guy shared with me and what he did was he didn't look at the problems I was going

through except for to help me out of them. He didn't come down on me about any of them. He didn't judge me. He didn't say you're wrong. He didn't say, uh, God hates you. He didn't, he said, God loves you, bro. And you got problems and that's okay. And love God, love people. If you can do that thing, it would solve all the problems. If you could love God and love people, then that would change things. And so that's what changed my life was like, wow. And what I had to happen first was see if God could actually love me. And then I felt me, my own personal experience and encounter, like I felt like, man, God, God doesn't hate me. He might love me. And then I feel like he does love me. And then he wants me to love him back

and love people. And if I can do those two things for me, that would change. It has changed my life. And I believe it will change others' lives if I can do that. I think for a lot of people who are atheists, um, they hear this kind of talk. One of the, one of the things that comes to mind is they're going like, where is this God you're talking about? Where is this evidence? To put it into the way I kind of look at it, like a lot of people have thought for whatever reason that I don't believe in God or that I'm anti-God or that I'm an atheist. anti-God or that I'm an atheist. I would not classify myself in any way, shape, or form. I definitely don't think that I'm an atheist because I don't not believe in God. But what I think is that when someone can tune into the genuine intentions of the best aspects of any religion, whether it's Christianity,

whether it's Hinduism, whether it's... What it really boils down to is love and generosity and fellowship and moving towards good and bringing people together with happiness rather than moving towards bad. And what you've done in your life, you can call it God, you can call it bad. And what you've done in your life, you can call it God, you can call it anything, but what you've done in your life is recognize the worst possible aspects, the chemical addiction, the depression, the sadness, the failure, all the self-sabotage, and then realize there's another way to do this. I've hit the worst possible frequency, and I've also kind

of barely been able to tune into this great frequency. Well, what is this? Well, knowing the lows and the lowest lows, sometimes you can really sort of extrapolate that there's a counter to that. There's 180 degrees to that, just like your friend was talking about, the Folex and the Rolex. For a lot of people that have a problem with the word God, you know, I had this guy, Alex Grayon, who's this visionary artist, really fascinating, fascinating guy. And he's also this psychedelic adventurer. And he throws around the word God all the time. And he's like, you know, we kind of have to take that word back because the word God sort

of has this bad... Heebie-jeebie to it. Yeah, like, oh, you're talking about nonsense. But no, you're not necessarily talking about nonsense. And just because you can't prove it and just because, you know, the Bible was written thousands of years ago, it doesn't mean it's all bullshit. And the true frequency of love, the true frequency of fellowship is really what, what leads to happiness. You're experiencing that yourself. Oh man, I am. And that's what this, this vision is for me with the pygmies in the Congo. Like a lot of people have misinterpreted it to where they've

thought, oh, you're just going there to make a bunch of converts. You should take them a sandwich instead of a bunch of converts. Like that, if people, if, if you actually looked at what I'm doing, like I'm actually doing slave liberation, rainforest conservation, and wildlife preservation, all wrapped into one sustainable ways of life, this and that it does not hinge around. Uh, it does not really hinge around if they become a Christian or not, if they don't, and they don't want to, and they, they want to worship their God, do witchcraft, do all that. Christian or not, if they don't and they don't want to, and they, they want to worship their God, do witchcraft, do all that. Fine. I'm going to love you the same way. I feel like God has put on my heart, a desire to love them and to love them well, and to love them regardless

of their choices that they make, just because my choice is to love them. And it doesn't hinge around if, if they do what I want them to do or not, Like they're my family. And so I want to see them be self-sustainable and all that other stuff. So it's not about, it's not about like, are they going to become converts or anything like that? Like at all. It's about, I'm going to love you guys and see you guys go from being slaves to being liberated, to being free, to being put on your own land, to being able to farm, uh, to being able to produce your own corn and beans crops, which you're getting ready for their second harvest. First time in history, they're going to have their own school.

You're going to be educated. Once they're educated, they can represent themselves at the Capitol. They can be citizens of the country after that. I mean, it just, it goes on and on and on. And I don't think anybody who's reasonable, who listens to you would think that you're just trying to convert people because you're a religious zealot. It doesn't sound like that at all. It sounds like you're doing everything absolutely perfect with the best intentions possible.

It's a beautiful story, man. It really is. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to have you in here and talk to you about it. And it's become more beautiful the more I hear about it, man. It's really cool. And please, come back again when you're back in town, when you're back a year from now. Yeah, you got my number. Get in touch with me.

And let's do this again and tell me more things. What's the end game? Are you going to stay there forever? Man, I honestly don't know. We're talking about that with my future wife because I don't think we could live there forever. No. Yeah, there's no.

But I do want to go back often. And this one year is my way of committing to them and this is what's crazy man like i'm trying to find a way to turn this huge publicity or they're going viral it was on jimmy kimmel and tmz and the today show and now there's gonna be a book and i'm trying to find a way to go from 800 000 views to 50 000 or or even maybe even $200 to $250, which I know that sounds like a lot. Start a Kickstarter. Yeah.

Yeah, start a Kickstarter. We're on Indiegogo right now, and we're seeing how that goes. It was before Kickstarter. It's a crowdfunding site. So it's indiegogo.com slash projects slash fight hyphen for, it's fight for the forgotten, but hyphens in between it. So indiegogo.com slash projects slash fight for the forgotten, but hyphens in between it. So indiegogo.com slash projects slash fight for the forgotten,

but there's hyphens in between fight, hyphen, for. Damn, you're making it difficult as fuck for someone to give you some money. I know. Or you can go to fightforthevergotten.com and then you hit donate and then it will take you to the Indiegogo page. All right, fightforthevergotten.com.

Go there, folks, please. Go there and donate some cash. That sounds amazing, man. If we can help you, if we can help publicize things, if we can tweet things for you, just let me know. Are you going to have any access to the internet while you're out there? Yeah, actually, my buddy that I brought in with me, the filmmaker, he's got a buddy that is developing this military technology

that's been picked up by him. But they can fly drones and stuff like that from a briefcase. And you take this briefcase and you take it to remote places of the world and you set up these four squares or something like that. And inside of that, you have perfect wifi, high speed stuff. So they're trying, yeah, they're trying to see if they could get that to me because I've had zero contact while I've been there.

So I'd love to be able to Skype with people, talk to people from the jungle of the Congo. All I would need was some power. That would definitely help. And when you do do that, please let us know and we'll tweet it and we'll get it out there to as many people as we can. Man, that's great. The whole main goal is getting potentially – well, that's actually what I would love to do is if we could get Shalom University, and it shares it at the Indiegogo page, if we could get them a research center on the land, and I'm talking about 1,200 acres of land. If we could get them a research center, then that would mean they have year-round students on the pygmy land, and they'd be able to develop them in different self-sustainable ways of life, crops, water wells, all this stuff. College students would get credit to develop the pygmies and sustainable ways of life. And so the, the big goal would be 200 to

250,000. I think it's right there and it says what it does. And it's, it's some crazy stuff where, where, I mean, I'll read it real quick and, but it's, yeah for 200 to 250 000 this is with the university this isn't something i made up this is what they've been able to say it would it would literally have three to five thousand slaves put on five square kilometers of perfect rainforest five square kilometers of land for under for the the two hundred thousand dollar price but then after that it would uh preserve the culture of the pygmies. It would get water wells. It would get nutritious crops growing. So not just, uh, not just corn and beans, but like, like good crops. It would have a tilapia pond that's stocked. So the corn would feed the chickens. It would also feed the tilapia and it would feed the pygmies. And it just is a

self-sustainable way of life. It could have like a earthbag home technology where, have you ever seen those, the earthbag homes or the eco domes? Those things are crazy. So today, one of my buddies was over there having a meeting with them and they might want to support this project where for in the U S three to five men, it would only take them three to five days to build a three to five room home. And it's under $300 in the U S all it is is sandbags, sandbags. You fill it with dirt and you make this like Adobe that you put on the outside of it. And so we're trying to get that technology over there to them. Shalom university is like all on board wanting to do that. And so really, and then it would have that, uh, could have that, um, university research center there

where they get, and that's the thing. I don't want't want this this project i don't want the pygmies uh to be dependent on me like if i'm only there a year and i can only do a year's worth of stuff i want this thing to be a well-oiled machine that it lasts long after i'm gone um and so that way i don't know i want this thing to outlive me if that makes sense i want it to keep going on it does make sense it's a very noble idea man. And listen, you've done an amazing thing so far, and we're going to try to help you. So fightfortheforgotten.com. Go there. Give some money to the, what is it, Indigo? Indiegogo.com.

Indiegogo.com. Find it, folks. You can find it. You're smart, folks. Fightfortheforgotten.com. Fightfortheforgotten.com. And you can follow Justin. He is on Twitter.

It's JustinTheViking on Twitter, right? Yes, sir. All right. Dude, thank you very much, man. I'm so glad you did this. This is one of the coolest things. Thanks. This is one of the coolest things for us, too.

Thank you very much, man. All right, folks. We'll be back most likely tomorrow with Shane Smith. We've got to work out the dates and time. But tomorrow night we do have a show at the Ice House Comedy Club. And that is at 10 p.m. with Ian Edwards and Ari Shafir.

Thanks to Hover.com. Go to Hover.com forward slash Rogan, and you will get 10% off your domain name registrations. They're a very cool company and they help support this podcast. Thanks also to Audible.com. If you go to Audible.com forward slash Joe, you will get free 30 days service from Audible.com and a free audio book. And we would recommend Nocturnal from our buddy Scott Sigler, who is just in here today.

Really cool guy. So Audible.com forward slash Joe. Thursday night, this Thursday night at the American Comedy Company in San Diego California where they just got their liquor so if you want to fuck your life up and go down the hard path that Justin Wren just recovered from go down to San Diego and take shots

of Jack Daniels with Mexican narcotics because they're right across the border in San Diego I'm not telling you you should do this but if you're gonna do that that's the place to be San Diego. I'm not telling you you should do this, but if you're gonna do that, that's the place to be. San Diego, American Comedy Company, and lots of funny comics, and it's this

Thursday night. Alright, my friends, listen, the message of this podcast could not have been better served by Justin Wren today. You are, you stand for everything that is good in this world, my friend. And what you're doing, I think, is a beautiful thing.

And I'm honored to have you on this podcast to tell the world about this. I appreciate you so much. We're going to have you on again, my friend. All right. Justin Wren. After we set 1,000 slaves free. We're going to send slaves free.

We're going to put people on Mars. Telepathy. We're going to find the Bigfoots. And all more. And then some. And then we're going to find the Bigfoots, and all more. And then some. And then we're going to go to God. All right, folks. We love the shit out of you, and we'll see you tomorrow.

Thanks. Bye. Appreciate it. Thank you.