The Joe Rogan Experience - #369 - Jason Silva, Duncan Trussell, Ari Shaffir

Episode Date: June 21, 2013

Jason Silva is a Venezuelan-American filmmaker, philosopher, and television personality, currently hosting "Brain Games" on NatGeo.  Duncan Trussell is a stand-up comedian, and host of his own podcast, "Duncan Trussell Family Hour", available on Spotify.  Ari Shaffir is a stand-up comedian and also hosts his own podcasts "Ari Shaffir's Skeptic Tank" and "Punch Drunk Sports", both available on Spotify.

the Joe Rogan experience praise Odin Duncan Trestle praise Odin praise Odin Jason Silva praise Odin praise Odin Ari Shafir we are finally finally together again this is a fucking super

podcast yeah this is really great. This is as sexy as it gets. For me. I'm very happy to be here, man. Thank you for having me back. It was so cool running into you at the Global Future 2045 conference, man. That was badass. Dude, that was awesome.

That is your world, dude. Singularity, man. I was actually talking with Duncan about this a little while ago. What was your guys' impression? Because, I mean, that's kind of like the Mecca of the Singularity. You guys visited Mecca in Singularity. And because we visited for the show, we got to talk to some really cool people that probably would never sit down and talk to us. You know, like Aubrey de Grey.

I got to talk to Aubrey de Grey. We'll have that on the show. And, you know, you guys got to talk to – what was the gentleman's name with the robot? Hiroshi Ishiguro. Hiroshi Ishiroshi ishigura hiroshi ishigura crazy robot man yeah really weird you talked to the one that didn't have limbs no the one the little baby one that talks back to you like somewhat limbs well that that one freaked me out because that one responds to you in conversation it understands what you say and responds to you so you're It understands what you say, and it responds to you. So you're like, hey, how you doing? And it goes, good, how are you?

And then it's like, good, man. Where are you from? He's like, I'm from Tokyo. And I'm like, oh, cool. Did you like the travel here? He's like, yeah, it was fun. But here's the thing. It's this humanoid baby with no limbs,

which feels like the beginning of a creepy sci-fi movie that starts out with showing the first AI, but it's limbless. So it's this weird thing. So we we're gonna build them but they're gonna be like a little circus freaks you know without limbs. It just felt really honking. Would it be weirder if it was limbless or if it had limbs it couldn't move? It was paralyzed. It can hug you with its nubs. Right, with its nub. But that's why it man. Because it responds to you like a human, and it's cute. You immediately anthropomorphize it, and you start to respond to it like it's alive. And at some point, it'll be so good at responding that by all measures that we know about when it comes to knowing if you have a subjective experience or if you have a subjective, we'll just believe that they're conscious.

And at that point, are they just going to be these living, thinking things that we keep limbless behind a like, you know, behind a rope so people can like throw money and look at? I mean, it was just freaked me out, the presentation of it. I don't think they're going to. I think one thing that people haven't thought of with robots yet is that they think that they're going to be confined to one form. I think the reality is going to be that they are going to be able to disassemble into individual droplets if they want to. They're going to be these self-assembling things that can kind of – Like the Terminator, remember? It became liquid, the new models.

That's what it's going to be. It's going to be like – But think about that. In a way, it's kind of like time-lapsing reality because what are atoms if not self-assembling entities that link up with other atoms and become cells? And then those cells like self-assemble into tissues and organisms. I mean, the whole story of the universe, the opposite of entropy is extrapy, right? The things that move towards greater complexity and self-assemble.

So when people talk about robots or nanotechnology, it's like an acceleration of it so that it becomes discernible to us from this scale. And this is funny because it's... That already exists. When McKenna talks about his DMT experience, he calls them self-transforming machine elves. So it's almost as though he's come in contact

with a future version of what these androids are going to be. Well, just stop if you think if you accelerated life. I mean, time is all... It's all our perspective. Because if you accelerated our life, human life, the experience of humanity, but accelerated it times a billion. Right.

And you got to see the first single cell become multicellular and on and on and on. Cities rise. Right. People fly and then the earth crash again. You would get to see it all in like some sort of a psychedelic trip that only takes three minutes. Right. And you would see the earth form out of the cosmos. Yeah.

I mean, you could. Oh, yeah. That's psychedelic. I mean, that might as well be a mushroom trip. A hundred percent. I mean, if you could like literally time-lapse that. It's just a perspective thing. It's a time thing.

It's all perspective. Like, even when you see time-lapse of trees growing. Yeah. It's like you see the tree and it aims towards the sun. Yeah. The plants like aim towards the sun. Yeah. That's a very good philosophy.

I mean, it's kind of crazy. It's almost like agency itself. Which is that, what they call the life force. That's a very new philosophy. I mean, it's kind of crazy. It's almost like agency itself, which is what they call the life force, that there's agency. Even plants seem to have it through time lapse. Like you see agency, intent. Like it wants to go towards something. What does that say? Kevin Kelly, the trippy co-founder of Wired, in his book What Technology Wants, he calls technology the technium.

He says it's the seventh kingdom of life and that it also has wants and needs and he says that if we were able to zoom out and remove ourselves from the being the co-participants and in creating technology it would actually look like the technology itself is self-assembling and has a direction like the time-lapsing of plants which is crazy right yeah and then when mckenna was tripping out and he starts talking about singularities hello hear the echo with kurzweil and mckenna sure mckenna's tripping on and he starts talking about singularities. Hello, hear the echo with Kurzweil and McKenna. McKenna's tripping on DMT and talking about singularities. He's talking about universes that engender novelty,

universes that allow the sprouting of new possibility. It's the same thing that Kevin Kelly's writing about in his technology book. So you see the respected technologists writing these books about what's happening. Even Eric Schmidt, The Age of Augmented Humanity and Google. Google represents the literalization of the psychedelic dream, the literalization of the idea that we are expanding our minds with these technologies, whether they be chemical technologies or whether they be these external technologies. And what you're saying, this is why it's hilarious when you hear people start railing

against, it's unnatural, we shouldn't do it. Because what you're saying is like, no, actually, there appears to be some form of transcendent, invisible architecture that all things grow upon in a similar way, whether it's plants, technology, humans. It just stretches on this invisible framework and reveals what's hidden and underneath all things, which seems to be this ever-perfecting, ever-complexifying, harmonious expression. That's right. And Pierre de Chardin, who was a famous Jesuit priest,

called it the Omega Point. He called it the Omega Point. He got pushed out of the church because he basically sort of divinized the idea of the singularity, and he was using the language of God, but he was talking about this move towards complexity and the phenomenon of man,

and man was the point in which evolution became self-aware and started directing its own evolution. Doesn't that echo what we were talking about at the Futures Conference? So you see these echoes, you see these patterns that connect, you know, the whole idea of cyberdelics, right? It's cybernetics and computers and then psychedelics and, you know, chemical technologies, and they collide in what's known as cyberdelic. That all started in the 60s and 70s in Silicon Valley when the computer scientists were tripping on LSD

and working on creative problems. Yeah, Xerox PARC, Augmenting Human Intelligence. There's a book by John Markoff called What the Dormouse Says, which talks about where that came from. I mean, you have to think that these people were out of their minds when they were conceiving of a world in which these computers could be wirelessly sending our thoughts across time and space at the speed of light,

and that we're all going to be connected and see our faces on these machines. I mean, you have to be, in a way, psychologically or metaphorically tripping to even think so far outside the box. That's why Da Vinci was so fascinating. And a lot of the stuff that he came up with really didn't come to fruition in that form. But you could see that he was like thinking of these concepts like way ahead of everybody else yeah

he was just really like what a fascinating fascinating guy that must have been oh completely envisioning the future knowing that he's just

stuck with these fucking apes do you think he could have any regular conversation with anybody I doubt it do you think he could walk along and pretend

that he cared about what happened to the coliseum last night did you hear about the potatoes are tainted the potatoes are no good we're going to riots we can fly he's drawing a fucking helicopter in his backyard yeah yeah can you imagine that's so far ahead of the curve it's just

it's it but it stands to reason that some people are born with bigger dicks and other people have larger ears yeah some people just have a part of the brain or the ability to tune into creativity. Who's Da Vinci's teacher? Well, it sounds like, I mean, was he a wealthy guy? Like, did he come from a background where he had time for leisure? No, I did not know any of the history of Da Vinci. He must have. He didn't make any money at these things. Well, here's the thing. I was reading an article today that said, you know, even though human beings evolved about 200,000 years ago,

I was reading an article today that said, you know, even though human beings evolved about 200,000 years ago, the first art, the first signs of, like, religion or, you know, contemplative thinking didn't appear until the cave paintings that are, like, 70,000 years old. So if we had the same brains for 200,000 years, but you didn't see the beginning of humanness or imagination until about 70,000 years ago, why did it take so long if we've had the same brains? And the idea is that we, it's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Those first 100,000 years, we didn't even have enough food. We didn't have any kind of organized society. It was only when we could afford the leisure time that all this other stuff started. It's like paying back a loan. You mostly pay interest at first and then one cent on the… Powerful Jew logic.

That's what it is. And then eventually you're paying like only two cents of interest. Jew singularity. And the rest is… Yeah, so you get it all. So like they took 99% of their time just dealing with staying alive. Yeah, just dealing with staying alive. Two years later, one percent to get

to wherever they were going. It's Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. And it's like, as a collective human society, at some point, we were able to, we had enough hunters and we had enough organization,

maybe, that we could feed ourselves and there was the beginning of free time. The beginning of eating psychedelic chemicals and making cave paintings and shamanic dances

and all of that. Whoever read the free time is my god. Think about countries today, civilizations today that are living like that. Have you the free time is my god. Think about countries today, civilizations today that are living like that. Have you heard about these people in India?

There's an island, an uncontacted island off India and recently, within the last few years, these fishermen inadvertently got drunk on their boat

and drifted into the shore and these people killed them. They killed them and then the authorities were trying to figure out how to get to the bodies without getting shot at by these people

and having to kill them because there's not that many left. There's maybe like 40 or 50 and they have no contact with other human beings. And the authorities are trying to figure out how to get to the bodies without getting shot at by these people and having to kill them. Because there's not that many left. There's maybe like 40 or 50. And they have no contact with other human beings. They are barbarians. They're total 100% complete savages that are living off the land, fishing with homemade nets. How do you put them under? They're controlling themselves.

Who are you to put them under your thumb? Yeah, well, it's not only that. They won't even go in there to retaliate against murder, which is fascinating to me. It's like the anthropologists are so concerned with keeping this intact and studying the civilization in some sort of a way to try to – Really, they were attacked. They're almost like their own country, and they were attacked. Well, no, no. Some foreign person came in.

Bo washed aboard, and they just killed the guy. They didn't even talk to him first. I mean, he might have been a respected member of the community within six months. They didn't even talk to him first. He might have been a respected member of the community within six months. They didn't even give him a chance. Hello, can you help me out? My rudder seems broken. There's tales of cannibalism, but it's hard to substantiate, but it's not outside the realm

of possibility. So you might be dealing with cannibals that we allow to kill people because they're so primitive that we don't want to fuck up what they've got. Because there's only like 40 of them. Why do we want to preserve that? Isn't that interesting? Because there is a sentimental instinct in humanity that wants to preserve.

Everything. In everything. A hamburger place goes under. Everyone cries. Yeah. It's like an instinct that people want to do that. And a lot of people say that's part of our humanity is keeping intact cultures and religions and keeping intact all these ideas. Because you can see that with this thing that's emerging, this thing that's emerging is so much bigger than some old desert religion.

desert religion and the bigger it gets and the more this thing emerges the more its light begins to shine so brightly that all these silly little superstitious ideas begin to seem increasingly ridiculous yeah I mean our consciousness is becoming so expanded that it's almost like you know we're able to like all of a sudden turn around and see ourselves and I know that sounds almost like it's impossible shape but like the first time that we can actually do that and we can see ourselves sort of out of context. Just like in 1969 when astronauts first took a picture of the Earth from the vantage point of space. I mean, that's literally like the human mind was folding in on itself because how is it possible for a human brain that emerged from the Earth to then see the Earth not from the Earth?

Do you know what I mean? It's like the Earth looking at itself. Like that's what was happening because we are like a seed of the planet. And then we left the planet and turned around and took a picture. How about the mind fucks of the shots from the Voyager from orbit? Oh, yeah. Where you see Earth as like a tiny little dot. Have you seen Sagan's film?

Oh, my God. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Amazing. They sent something out there, and it's still taking pictures of us. And it's so fucking far away that we're like a little tiny dot. And then you get a sense of what this thing really is. We're nothing compared to all of it.

It's insanity. It's insanity. It doesn't even compute. How do you reconcile yourself, though, to that? Think about the average person. How do you accommodate to yourself to the idea that everything you know, the vast expanse, the repository of experience of your entire life is a blink of a blink of a blink on a grain of a grain of a grain of a grain. Well, instead of turning it that way, I mean, you have fun.

Yeah, that's it. It's like, hey, you don't matter at all. Why not just enjoy yourself? Well, you do matter, though. That's not true there. But you want it to mean something. You need a narrative. It does.

Yeah, I want to fly. No, it does. It does mean something. It means something to you right now. It's tangible. It's real. It means something to the people that you're in contact with. There's nothing unreal or unnatural about it because it's temporary.

But do you have attachments or you don't have attachments? Well, you do. It's natural. But this connection that you have to this greater gigantic thing doesn't negate the small moments in your life. It doesn't negate video games that you enjoy. It doesn't negate finding the perfect porn to jerk off to. It doesn't negate a sandwich that you enjoy. Just give yourself happiness until you're gone and no one will remember you.

But I don't agree that it doesn't matter. Because it does matter. It matters to you right now. And although that seems ridiculous, so does life itself. So does every breath you take. Well, hold your breath, stupid. You don't think that breathing is important? Hold your breath. Of course it's important. So does life itself. So does every breath you take. Well, hold your breath, stupid. You don't think the breathing's important? Hold your breath.

Of course it's important. Don't be silly. You're like, the existential ideas can overwhelm the reality of the situation. And the reality of the situation is, you would like to stay alive, and for the most part, it's fun. And if it's not fun, you've managed your right your life incorrectly you know but you know what's interesting about what you just said is that you know you you've eloquently stated something that's actually very difficult for most people to experience most people either have to have like they have to be half asleep which means ignore the overwhelming universe and just just be barely present and then

other people are awake to this overwhelming universe. You know, Brian's right here, and he can hear you. You know, you're talking about him like he's not here. He's jabbing at Red Band. No, we're not. We're just bringing him into the conversation. No, but it's like, you know, Albert Camus, the existentialist, said life should be lived to the point of tears, right? And everything has been figured out except how to live.

And this is the question. I heard that was in the onions and hot sauce. He was just a freak like that. Camus? Yeah, it was a big misunderstanding. He was the onions and hot sauce aficionado, and everybody was like, oh, he's just really deep. You know how he died?

He had a train ticket that he was going to take a train to get to his destination, and his friends were like, no, let us drive you. And they got in an accident? Yeah. It was like a bad, terrible decision. But go on with your Camus quote, because I love it. My mother died yesterday.

It might have been the day before. I can't remember. What's that, Ari? My mother died yesterday, or it might have been the day before. I can't remember. Camus quote. Oh, yeah. The opening line of The Stranger.

Just disconnected. Completely. I remember reading it, and I found it really depressing. Well, I guess my whole question is, okay, so in the face of an infinite universe, with our minds we can ponder something close to the infinite, yet the irony is that we're housed in these heart-pumping, breath-gasping,

decaying bodies. You know, Ernest Becker, who wrote The Denial of Death, says we are gods with anuses. Think of how brilliant that is. So, the idea that we are these transcendent beings, but every single day we are reminded that we have metabolism. It's funny that Becker thinks that God doesn't have an anus. How does he know?

What an asshole to be so presumptuous. But still, how do you reconsider? It's the only species that can really lose sleep over the fact that we are mortal beings. We can barely sustain the here and now because we know that one day we might be dead. And so what do we do? Do we just lose ourselves in diversions and sex and drugs? Well, here's my problem with this whole line of thinking. Because we know we're going to be dead.

Here's my problem with this whole line of thinking. Yeah. What does the average person do? What does the average person do? How about turn the question inward and say, what do you do? And tell everybody what you do because that's how we figure it out through you telling me how you're managing it i tell you but when you start going what does the average person do what the reality is we're all the average yes yeah we're all the average person the average person varies in our

insignificance especially yeah like yeah yes absolutely in our significance we are all the average person 100 yeah when someone says that all men are created equal not really but yes yeah not really in this experience but yes you know there's einstein's just Stephen Hawking's there's fucking Lou Ferrigno's there's a lot of weird people in this world but there I think there's a responsibility as you as technology emerges and science begins to show us the truth uh of reality these responsibilities begin to emerge that create ethical dilemmas for societies which is when you have large swaths of the human population being controlled by tyrannical, fundamentalist, religious people

who are basing everything they do on a phantasmal being that clearly doesn't exist, and outdated rituals that are just rotting. They made Galileo apologize. Yes. What do you do? Because in those situations, at some point, it's like, well, you do because in those situations at some point it's like well you do have a right you obviously there's freedom of religion you want to give

people freedom of religion but simultaneously it's like well but why are you cutting girls clitorises off like you know what I mean like it's almost like it's almost like you know we need an upgrade you know like religion was a technology that at least informed people with the illusion of meaning so that they could, you know, as they say, you can live for a week without food, three days without water, but not a minute without hope. You know, like, so that gave us hope. And Ernest Becker says that was the first solution. I can hang on for a minute. Yeah, that was the first solution. Whoever said that never ate a pot brownie because there's fucking hours with no hope.

Yeah. And you get through it. You get through that shit. Just get through it. And you get through it. You get through that shit. Just get through it. And you learn when you hit the other side. You learn when you hit the other side. Well, that's interesting. We talked about ayahuasca and DMT,

which, as Eric Davis says, baseline reality dissolves. There is a complete ego death and a new reality emerges. Or it just fucks with your visual cortex and you add it all with your ego and your psyche and your creativity and you just have the ability

to generate images inside the mind's eye with your creativity and you just create a fucking world of geometric patterns because that's how your eyeball works when it's over flooded with too much DMT. That's how your visual cortex responds. That's what happens. When there's ten times the normal dose in. Maybe that too. Just like when you have a cut, it clots.

Yeah. But you know. This is how it responds to that. Maybe that too. Just like when you have a cut, it clots. Yeah. Which is how it responds to that. This is what I always say when people say, how do you know whether or not a DMT trip is real? Like you're pretending that that really happened. You really did speak with intelligent beings from the planet. The reality is whether or not you really did go to another dimension and speak with these super intelligent beings who are made out of love, or whether it didn't happen at all, either way you experience the same thing. Right. Sure.

You get to hear the message. You get to see the exact same thing as if it was real. Yes. Like literally. You know where that was explored brilliantly? Do you guys remember the movie Contact? Yes. Based on the Carl Sagan book? So she is a secular scientist.

She doesn't want to hang out with Matthew McConaughey, who's a priest. She doesn't believe in God. In fact, at first they try not to let her go. See, that's how brilliant of the Matthew McConaughey cock. Because even though she didn't want any of that, he still fucked her. Yeah, he did. Boom, son. That's right.

But think of what happened at the end of the movie. She went through the wormhole and saw these alien civilizations, had an experience that sounded there like a religious experience Except it was you know, she didn't go anywhere Well from the perspective of Earth through the wormhole, it just looked like the ship just ran right through So nobody believed her but she had the experience and all of a sudden she was sounding like the religious people are like the people That were tripping that said they saw the elves Well, I was sudden she as the scientist was had to cast doubt on her own experience because she saw the evidence

that was against it. When you try DMT, you know already what that is. It doesn't just hit you. You're like, what the fuck? And your mind just explodes. You know you're taking something

so you can make reason of it. I could totally see, well, what was it? That must be God. And let me tell other people about this. I could totally see that as a way to start.

There are scholars in Jerusalem, legitimate scholars now, that believe that that's what Moses saw when he saw the burning bush. What? That he saw the acacia tree. The acacia tree, which is rich in DMT, and it's really common to that area.

That makes a lot of sense. The idea is that this bush or the extraction of this bush was burning, and that's how he had this religious experience. He saw God. He had a DMT trip. This is like – They caught a puff of this tree like on fire? That's one of the theories. Wow, I can see that.

That's just a theory. But the primary focus of achieving this theory is that Moses most likely had a psychedelic experience. Yeah. Because we know that these substances are not new. Plus, he said he got the tablets that God gave him, but he smashed them before he got on the hill. He was mad because they made the golden cow. He smashed them. Nobody ever saw the fucking tablets.

Yeah, he was tripping. And that researcher does a lot of mushrooms. You know? Yeah. He could have been like, yeah, I don't know, I smashed him.

They destroy the evidence. Yeah. Or destroy the non-evidence. Everybody talking about it's high. But that's very similar to when Terrence McKenna talks about the stoned ape hypothesis,

obviously, but there's a guy called Rich Doyle. He wrote a book called Darwin's Pharmacy and it's Pharmacy, and it's about sex, plants, and the evolution of the noosphere. And he talks about psychedelic substances as information technologies that manipulate our ability to capture and manage attention.

So they create what he calls infinite resonance with set and setting. Say that again, say that again. Infinite resonance with set and setting. That's why when people talk about psychedelic experiences, they're like, make sure you're in a good head space, make sure you're in a good set and setting. Because if you have infinite resonance with set and setting, That's why when people talk about psychedelic experiences, they make sure you're in a good head space, make sure you're in a good set and setting. Because if you have infinite resonance with set and setting, it means that you become completely porous to whatever is around you.

This motherfucker's talking mumbo jumbo. No, I'm hearing it, but I want to get off of him. You no longer have the ability. It's like turning up the volume on existence. Turning up the volume so loud that if you're in a magnificent place looking at a tree, you might think you're looking at God. If you're in an uncomfortable situation, you're going to go down to the pits of hell. It means, you know that thing when a microphone gets too loud and you get

feedback? If you're in a shitty place tripping, you can get a feedback. Infinite feedback just keeps going. Or you could be in a beautiful place that elicits feelings of calm and sereneness, and then you can feel like you're being licked by God. Happy Shroom Fest, by the way, everybody.

Happy Shroom Fest. That's going to be the real problem when people are able to decide what state of consciousness they experience at that moment, not even earning it by being so scared that you take mushrooms. Because every time I've taken mushrooms, I've been scared. You should be. You're about to go through some change.

Yeah. I get scared when I eat a pot cookie. You lose control. When I eat the last crumb of a pot cookie, I'm like, oh, shit.. You're about to go through some change. Yeah. I get scared when I eat a pot cookie. You lose control. When I eat the last crumb of a pot cookie, I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah. You got to deal with this. You have that moment. You start tapping my feet going, motherfucker.

How bad is this going to get? What did I do? Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Now, is that why? Is that because it's like if you think of the metaphor of skydiving, it's the moment where you've already jumped and you're just like, I don't know what it's going to be like. I honestly think that there is an accelerating process of self-development that we all go through.

And that if we are not improving as a human being, we feel shitty. We don't feel good. I don't feel good unless I'm getting my shit together. That's just a fact. I try to be a better person today than I was yesterday for real. And it sounds stupid, but it's because everybody says it and very few people legitimately totally practice it. They fall in and out. But I feel like that's also one of the reasons why people aren't that happy.

I feel like if you're not like improving yourself and getting rid of your bullshit in life, it's very difficult to feel good. It's very difficult to be enjoying it if you have all these issues that you're not dealing with. Like about you as a person or you with your job or you, you know. I hear more and more people talking about it when they say like, and I know I've been bad at that and I'm actually trying to get, trying to make a note to not be like that anymore. Well, it might be telling the truth. I mean, it's not a process where, you know, you either get it right or you don't get it right.

Like some people fall back and forth. I mean, how many people do we know that used to drink and then drank again and then stopped drinking for a long time? And then, you know, it's like a little battle sometimes with people to try to improve their shit ramdas compares it to floating in in the ocean and your head's bobbing up and down sometimes you see the shore and sometimes you don't that's what it's like it's like sometimes you're there and you see it something but you can't beat yourself up when you go down you have to have faith that you'll come back up again but what you're saying is dead on man because if i'm

feeling like shit what you're saying it's not some broad big thing you've on man because if i'm feeling like shit what you're saying it's not some broad big thing you've got to do if i'm feeling like shit nine times out of ten it's just because i've got dishes in the sink or i didn't go jogging or i didn't like sweep my kitchen it's not like that but that would be like an example of set and setting right there you know other people say that you know 99 of your problems will go away if you get a good night's sleep like in terms of emotionally yeah because sometimes you know even when you're sleeping you're thinking about things and you're putting them into perspective yeah i mean how many times you've been really upset when you go to bed and by the time the night's over you're like yeah

whatever all right you let it go sleep on it regulating your emotions a gig you lost or something something that happened like i'm sure so you've had to go to bed before you make the phone call talk to you about this because you make the phone call or whoever. Talk to me about this because you've had a few instances where the amazing racist stuff lost you gigs. Yeah, I just had to get a thing canceled in London, Ontario. That's right. Yeah. Somebody, yeah.

Now, that's got to be frustrating as fuck. So frustrating. How do you let go of that? When you're dealing with something like that, how do you let go of that? Well, sometimes you say – I stop myself. I go, stop. Hold on. Can griping about this change it in any way?

No. All right. All right. Move on. So it's like a little moment of dialogue with yourself and a decision. Yeah. If I'm in a long line at the airport and I'm going to miss my flight, I'm like, oh, come on. I keep looking up ahead.

I'm like, are you going to go to the front and ask, hey, I'm about to miss my flight, or are you not? If you're not, then stop griping. Then just let it wash over you. That's very interesting. I have a friend who was starting a company. He wants to create a watch that regulates emotion because people talk about creating. We talk about the age of the quantified self

where we're going to have all these devices that are going to be. A watch that what emotions? That measures emotion. Oh, really? And you have everybody know if you're annoyed? Well, it's not going to tell other people. It'll tell you. You get to set the code.

It'll measure your biofeedback rhythms, and it'll give you feedback to tell you how you're feeling so that then you can change your behavior if that's what needs to be done. Feedback loop seems to be the best way to reprogram reflex responses. They're saying that the best way to stop people from doing speeding is not from actually pulling

them over, but it's from those sensors that say your speed and tell you that as you're passing by. So receiving feedback is the best way to change behavior. So in terms of moving towards experience design and the age of the quantified self, if you know you're eating something unhealthy, maybe you won't eat it. If you're constantly reminded about how you're feeling and what you're doing, you can really kind of improve yourself. Technologically enhanced mindfulness is what that is. That's brilliantly put.

How often are you wandering around in a state of absolute terror, pretending everything's fine. I'm totally fine. Having a great day. But inside, you're like, oh, fuck, man. If I don't make enough money, I'm not going to make rent. But you're pretending to be happy. So if you have a watch that's flashing,

you are terrified. You are tense right now. You are tense right now. Talk about it. Deal with it. One of the most important things that anybody could ever understand in this life is what happens and what it feels like when you're out of debt. You know, because how many of us, how many of us, by the time we're

20, whatever the fuck we are, we have so much money that we can't pay off? Credit cards, student loans. I just last week paid off my college loans. Congratulations. I'm 39. Isn't that crazy? What a crazy society we have.

That everybody, by the time they're 30 years old, is in some kind of debt. Slavery. Super rich. A lot of education debt, right? A lot of education debt. But that's going to change. Medical debt. That's going to change with technology.

Medical school debt is insane. Not medical lot of education debt. But that's going to change with technology. Medical school debt is insane. Not medical school, medical debt. Those are two systems that definitely need an upgrade. Fuck yes. And this is where we can actually connect that to the ideas that Rick Kurzweil is talking about. He's saying that healthcare is about to undergo the same transformation that information technology

went through. So that means that the whole idea of how people cure themselves or fix diseases, this is all going to become something that's a part of our smartphone and part of our day-to-day life. So it's going to change that broken system of healthcare. And education also. Education through the internet, free education, people around the world coming online, joining the global conversation,

getting free education. There's a Harvard professor who's offering all his classes online. Yeah, exactly. It's only the beginning of that. And you have the power of decentralized peer networks that can be leveraged to solve all these problems. What does that mean? Decentralized peer networks? It's the same thing that

we talk about self-organization and emergence when cells link up together and become organisms. So you have electronic self-organization happening with social media. When there's leaderless protests that just spontaneously self-organize. And these technologies allow these decentralized peer networks that don't have leaders and don't have a head anonymous cut off potentially something like that but so steven

johnson's book future perfect talks about how those can be leveraged to like solve problems you know like cure diseases like leverage like how what this decentralized peer networks by the way i love that term because i think one of the big fucking problems is the need that people have to claim responsibility for innovation. And this is one of the horrors of our age is that that thing which makes people get rich is what motivates people. People aren't motivated. You like to believe that the reason they're trying to cure cancer is out of some kind of altruistic desire until you see them going to the Supreme Court to try to patent genes because they want to profit off of their research. That's pretty weird, right? It seems like the idea should be the dreamy hippie – I know, but that's why Pfizer is giving the researchers the money to research is so that eventually they'll be able to show return on that investment.

Right. It's just as strange. Yeah, it is strange. It's very strange. And you know what the real problem with all of it is? That it's not psychedelic. That's the real problem is that you can make money and create things, but you have to have a psychedelic mindset in order for society to move forward emotionally.

That's where they put it all behind. Friendship-wise. If it's not doing that, then it's going to get caught up in the ones and zeros, collecting the numbers. It can be prosperous and still be ethical. It's just it's not doing that, then it's going to get caught up in the ones and zeros, collecting the numbers. It can be prosperous and still be ethical. It's just it's not. And the reason why it's not is because when you have a corporation, you get that diffusion of responsibility thing going on, which is the opposite of what's psychedelic. Yes, absolutely.

Exactly, man. It's where the individual has no responsibility for the mass of individuals, whereas the psychedelic experience is the mass of individuals is connected entirely. Yes. I'm going to Joshua Tree on Sunday. Dude, tell me what you're going to do there, son. Let me guess. I think you're probably going to do your taxes. No, I'm not going to do my taxes.

I'm going to do mushrooms under the supermoon. Get your freak on. Is there a supermoon on Sunday? Sunday night, middle of Shroomfest. Let me tell you something, son. When you do mushrooms, it's always super moon. There's no non-super moon. When you do mushrooms and you realize that there is a fucking planet,

one quarter of the size of ours, and it's literally floating above our heads. Yeah, we're holding it. Just floating. What? Are you doing tent, hotel room? No, tent. Tent. Tent out in Joshua. Yeah, I've never been there, too. It should be cool. Duncan, what Are you doing a tent? What? Are you doing tent, hotel room? No, tent. Tent. Tent out in Joshua.

Yeah. I've never been there, too. It should be cool. Duncan, what are you getting, buddy? Getting beer for you and me. Yeah. All right. All right.

Anybody else? I'll have one. Beer? Try one of these Black Butte Porters. They're delish. Yeah. Delicious. I tried drinking with a 23-year-old recently.

Those people are straight out of college. They're in training. Damn. They bring shots around like it's nothing, and I'm Those people are straight out of college. They're in training. Damn. They bring shots around like it's nothing, and I'm barfing in the street, and they're still going. They don't give a fuck. God, I can't. Yeah, your liver's old, son. Yeah.

It's almost over for you. Have you ever had Eric Davis on the show? Eric Davis is... He wrote a book called Technosis that I think you guys would love. Yeah? He kind of writes about the mystical undertones of technology. So, again, like the whole psychedelic, cybernetics thing. And I just, I don't know, I wondered if you guys ever had him.

No, I never heard of him. Now I know. Boom. Sounds good. Sounds like perfect stuff. Right up my alley. Yeah, there's so many people like that now. Thank you, sir.

That's the beautiful thing about this time. It's like every day there's some new guy who's got a new video or a new song or a new – there's so many fucking pieces of something that are being created, whether it's jokes. There are more comedians now than ever. There's access to all of it. Yeah, but there's also an infinite amount of content. How do you decide what to pay attention to? That's one of the –

It's really hard. Well, that's one of the things – Get banned with anxiety? Well, that's the beauty of something like a death squad where, like like you know what which was the stupid nickname that we all call ourselves like you know that if ari tells you someone's funny he's not gonna be lying about it right you know if you can't tell you so many people that aren't funny no yeah but that's good if ari tells me to watch some guy i know he's really funny so the audience knows that too and that's sort of like the beauty of having like a bunch of people that have a like minded

you tune in and we're all different like there's a lot of alt people that would hate our humor and the last thing they want to do is be hanging around with us

and they're not wrong yeah they're just not into it they're just they have a different thing you know I mean but you find your thing whatever it is you know

whether it's Johnny Cash or Taylor Swift you fucking follow it and then you know whatever's connected to her whatever the best of that yeah I mean those people are gonna find it is you know whether it's Johnny Cash or Taylor Swift you fucking follow it and then you know whatever's connected to her whatever the best of that yeah I mean those people are going to

find it for you yeah I think that's how you do it in today's day and age it's like and that's the beauty of us being able to introduce

people like Bert Kreischer or you know anybody else that we brought on to our podcast that all of a sudden other people can go

oh that guy's really funny like oh and he's friends with this guy oh that guy's really funny too Oh, and he's friends with this guy. Oh, that guy's really funny too. Jason Silva. Yeah, yeah, yeah. People are like, how many people discovered you? This sort of stuff.

This was one of the biggest things I ever did. Come on your podcast, dude. That's amazing. It's been a year later, and I still get people saying I'd like to come back and hang out with you guys and have a mind job, which has been amazing. Well, it's a two-way street, though, because the whole reason why the podcast is interesting

is because people like you are interested coming on, you know It's alright if you only had just me talking after a while. I'll be repeating stories like a motherfucker I just be spouting nonsense But you know, it's interesting about what you're saying You know There's a book that talks about the importance of an information diet, you know Because we live in a world now where there is like an infinite of content out there, more than 10,000 hours of video uploaded to YouTube every hour, some crazy number like that.

And so the most difficult thing, I think, becomes deciding who are going to be your information diet filters. Like in this case, the death squad, the peer networks that you are connected to, the people you follow on Twitter. A lot of people trust NBC. By the way, when is the new shirt coming out? Once you realize what you're missing.

Brian Redband's leaving us, everybody, so he's got to go do an Ice House show. When is the new shirt coming out? Pre-order should be up next week, so next two weeks or so. It's my favorite of all time. It's head and shoulders. It's awesome. And the other one is awesome, too, but this new one is on another level.

It's dope. I want it. I want a pair of underwear. I want it. I want a pair of underwear with that on. Jesus Christ. I don't give a fuck, dude. I'll wear cloth over my dick.

Not on the podcast, Joe. I'll let you smell them. Yeah, too. Jason, what kind of car do you drive, dude? Oh, that was the- I don't have a car anymore because I'm in New York. You one of those motherfuckers. I'm in New York. Jesus, I'm in I'm in New York. You one of those motherfuckers.

I'm in New York. Jesus, son. I used to have one here. You don't drive cars? I mean, when I lived here, I had a car. I wanted to ask you about that Tesla. Oh, I don't have it. Oh, my God. Is that the coolest thing of all time?

It's kind of incredible. And they're only going to get better. I think they're about to release, like, the, what, third or fourth generation now? I don't know. Martine Rothblatt had one. And when I interviewed her and I got to meet her robot, Bina48. You ever seen that? No. Her spouse is a robot. Really? Martine Rothblatt,

fascinating story. Was a man. Was a man. Founded Sirius Satellite Radio. Got a sex change. Became a woman. And then created a robot that is a direct copy, a duplicate of her spouse. And it's creepy how good it looks.

Where's the spouse? Well, there. She's there, too. Okay. She's there as well. She just loves her, so she made a robot for her. That's so sweet.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's like Liberace making that guy change his face to him. Whoa. Did he really do that? Yeah, he made him get plastic surgery

to look more like Liberace. That's hilarious. Is that in the HBO thing? Yeah. I always wondered why Matt Damon and Michael Douglas were willing to do that. They have pictures of those two blowing each other. That's the only thing that makes sense. Like if they came up to you and you were Matt Damon and they said,

hey, listen, man, I know those Bourne Identity movies, they were really big. Listen, you're going to play Liberace's butt buddy. And best of all, made for TV. Yeah, made for TV. No, it's on HBO. Liberace's longtime lover. Oh, I see. Not in the movies.

Butt buddy's very offensive, by the way, to my gay friends, and I apologize for that. Butt buddy. It's butt pirate. You guys are so immature. I mean, if you said that a girl was your vagina pal, would that be rude? Vagina pal. No, it'd just be embarrassing. That would be rude, but isn't it interesting that a girl can call a guy a dick and there's no repercussions at all?

There are to my heart. And she can even say, I'm here to get some good Jason Silva dick. And you wouldn't have any problem with that. You'd be like, yep, I'm dishing it out, honey. Yeah. But if a guy says, oh, I'm here to get some sweet Mary pussy, she'd be like, what the fuck? It's because they're the gatekeepers. That's who I am? I'm sweet Mary pussy? You don't think that's

gross? And you're like, oh my god, you're not really my friend. Can't even joke around with you. Jason, what do you think's going to happen with these sex androids? What do you see as the future? I think the sex technology will probably be the pioneer. I mean, just like with porn,

the porn industry pioneered DVDs. When DVDs were first a thing, who do you think was doing the most advanced, like, multi-angle, interactive DVD experiences was the porn industry. I mean, when porn...

As soon as they said phones wasn't going to go with that old style of video, all of porn was like, cool, we'll update. Yeah, exactly. The iPhone never did. The rest of them were like,

yep. Totally. I mean, we're always going to be driven by sort of our sexual desires. Kurzweil says we'll be able to tap into each other's nervous systems and become each other when we have sex with our girlfriend. Oh, that's combining with someone. Like, imagine actually merging.

That is. Well, but no. But some people say, you know, the Kama Sutra talks about we've been wanting to merge with our lovers at the beginning of time. I want to become one. But imagine if we can actually scramble our nervous systems together because we have the demolition man device or whatever. Remember that?

That could be a real mind fuck, though. If you just find out that you are like the worst in bed ever, you feel what it's like to be fucked by you. Holy shit. Look at that. That's very eloquent. Look at me. I'm this. Oh, why am I doing that?

No, that's going to be for 16 to 25 years. You can grow from that experience. Even better. It would be like self-knowledge. Take it. Even better. Take it. So you don. Even better. Take it. Say you don't like it.

Take it. Yeah, your eyes would pop over like, why am I choking myself? Why won't you let me breathe, me? Or even worse, what if you get into her mind? Like if you can access your girlfriend's needs and desires. Right. And you go, I want to know what you want. And you get into her mind.

It's just a river of black cock. Black cock. Just a sleepy river of disembodied black cock just shooting sperm like a psychedelic dream. You're riding a river of dark black cock. It's not black cock. It's slippery. It's a river of pit bull cocks. Yeah, well, it's good to allow for a lot of creativity in sort of our our sexual

consciousness you know on the side let's get ahead with a multiplicity of dimensions that we can't even imagine it's the you know psychedelicization of isn't it amazing though that we that every that drives most a lot of our technology lately but we still have to repress it societally sex well i think that still has to be like looked on embarrassing? A reproductive force. It's the drive. It's the wind in the sails of humanity. It drives everything. And people are like, oh, what's that wind? Actually, there's actually a book about this.

It's called The Mating Mind. It was written by Jeffrey Miller. And he says that the brain's extraordinary capacities for creativity, for discourse, for everything we do, even build airplanes and iPhones, is ultimately our glorified version of the peacock feather. It's our version of the bird song right it's just us charming to capture and manage the attention of those potential mates it's a way of saying I'm poetic I built that skyscraper or I wrote you this was every joke every comedians ever told everything what's interesting is that

the side effect of this sexual creativity is also responsible for everything wonderful we've created. So it talks about the whole thing about sexuality ultimately as a creative act. It is. Because it's about reproduction. But ultimately on a cultural level and on an idea sex level, like the whole fucking thing about reproduction seems to be like... Right. We used to think we're getting lured by nature into making babies,

but now we see we're being lured by nature into making spaceships. Well, that's why the pill changed so much in society too. nature into making babies but now we see we're being lured by nature into making spaceships that's why the pill changed so much in society too that's why the singularity is a cosmic orgasm is the best way to describe what the singularity is it's the universe waking up it's up and it's us impregnating the universe that's the great marshall mccluhan quote you know that quote human beings are the sex organs of the machine world wow brilliant that's brilliant marshall mccluhan nailed that shit in the 60s of the machine world. Wow. Brilliant. That's brilliant. Marshall McLuhan nailed that shit in the 60s. Of the machine world, like the machines are controlling us. Before computers. Yeah. He figured

that out before computers. He was an actual genius. He also said, first we build the tools, then they build us. Right. Think about that. It's happening. That's true. Of course it's happening. And again, much like Da Vinci, what a mindfuck it must have been to be operating like that back in the 50s. You know what Da Vinci also did? He figured out how to draw curves. how to draw rounded edges in art.

No one knew how to make it. So you can't just, it's like to go around and lose his frame. You know how a path will go out to nothing? Nobody knew how to do that? He was the one who, I don't know if I remember from high school. Maybe, right? Eh, whatever. Let's attribute it to him anyway.

Some along those lines. He was a good guy. He deserved it. He put in his hours I love that stuff though Because it's like Well what aren't we doing now That we can do That we'll have

For granted We'll take for granted In a hundred years What? What do you mean They didn't walk through walls Why didn't they? It's true

They walked around every time? Yeah Why? What a strange world It must have been back then man when you could just die if you got sick most people just died they thought 50 mortality rate on children completely and most people know and and there's a lot of people though today that think that the that things are getting worse in the world which is another one of those like

mistakes that people are living longer than ever we're living longer than ever and there's a guy called hans rosling who has these amazing videos on the internet that show every nation in the world by every measurable indicator of quality of life has been right for the last hundred years. No, but it just shows that, you know, contrary to what the media in which it bleeds, it leads, feeds us,

because we have these overactive, fear-based amygdalas that only pay attention to what's wrong, we fail to see everything that's going right. Yeah. You know what's the most confusing shit? Really hot newscasters telling you horrible things. That's not confusing at all.

She's got big tits, and I'm scared out of my mind. My dick is hard, and I'm ready to run. Everything is together. So rude. Put someone ugly for bad news. Yeah, you're going to tell me some bad news? Get my high school teachers. And then switch them in when they go,

and this just in a puppy found alive and healthy. Ah, and then the big tits come out and they're ready to party. Yeah. But you could tell a lot about Bill O'Reilly. Like, I promise you

that Bill O'Reilly loves getting tied up. I can't say that for sure. No, say it for sure. That's a guess. Like, whatever legal stuff is, I guess. But I would imagine

Bill O'Reilly, because he's always like, on his show, it's always these beautiful yet dominating hot girls that surround him. He likes to be around these types of girls. Yeah, he loves it. You never see the women around him on that show as being submissive to him. They're always kind of tough.

Guaranteed, they scrub him down. When you think about this, do you masturbate? Scrub him down. What, O'Reilly? Do you masturbate thinking about Bill O'Reilly? All the time Do you imagine ever that you were some really fucking stupid guy like Bill O'Reilly A smart stupid guy

Like he's a Harvard graduate dummy You know he's one of those guys I'm gonna go with Jesus What does he say? He's thinking about Jesus He's like I'm gonna go with the Jesus guy Why does the tide come in? Why does it go out?

Oh that Dawkins interview The smile on Dawkins face Is the smile of the Lord of the Rings necromancer as he's crushing just like a little imp or something. It was just this like. What does he say? The look on his face because he's like, oh. Dawkins, though, from my taste, gets a little too upset. What's that? Dawkins?

Richard Dawkins you talk about? Richard Dawkins? From my super genius, atheist, reasonable people talking to cuckoo heads, I like my atheist to be a little bit more relaxed. Completely like. I think it was a great reaction. He's a little on the cunty side. What did he say to him?

He shot him. Dawkins has got a hammer smile. O'Reilly deserves a cunty. Oh, for sure. Don't get me wrong. But I think that Dawkins, at his age, is such a statesman, such a well-respected... He's probably showing off, too. Maybe, perhaps. And maybe also he feels it's his duty to maybe mercenary, go after those guys.

Because he is the intellectual voice for the atheists. He's super important in that way. I just wish he would chill. And you know one of the things that I found out about him is? No psychedelic drugs in his background. Wow, that's true. And he talked about how he maybe would be interested in taking LSD

under a very clinical setting to explore the merits of the drug. You know what that says to me? That's where the hole is. That's where the hole's in his game. That's why he comes off-cunt-y. Well, it's interesting because another one of our atheists... What are you waiting for, man? What are you waiting for? Sam Harris has done psychedelics.

In fact, he wrote an essay called Psychedelics and the Meaning of Life, which was actually a very brilliant piece. He's an interesting guy because he's an atheist, but he has some radical insights about spiritual, subjective experience and where things that come from. Well, he gets lumped in with Islamophobes. Really? I don't find that his writing comes across that way.

A lot of people argue that it does. He's a brilliant man and a friend. I really like the guy very much. And I really enjoy talking to him because he's got such a fucking stupid, smart mind. His brain is just like firing at a million hertz. Oh, yeah. But the thing about the label of Islamophobe is like the reality is all ideologies that force people into doing violent things are crazy.

And to try to pretend they're not to make some people who aren't violent happy seems like intellectually dishonest. And that's where the guy has courage. Of course he has courage. It's not that he's an Islamophobe. Not at all. If Islam was Buddhism. Yeah. Seems like intellectually dishonest. And that's where the guy has... Completely just the ideology. He has courage. Of course he has courage. It's not that he's an Islamophobe. Not at all. He says... If Islam was Buddhism... Yeah.

Okay, think about Buddhism. And by the way, there's a radical new sect of Buddhism, apparently, that's involved in ethnic cleansing and some kind of... Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. I know what you're talking about. Oh, they're fucking up Buddhism. It's the last safe place after being a Mormon.

You know? Go to... Yeah, Buddhists get angry. But I mean, apparently malaysia humans humans are imperfect man i think it's something like that i don't really remember where it was but humans are so imperfect you know and the the idea that uh there's anything wrong with saying that ancient ideologies that involve killing people if they don't believe are fucking bad i mean isn't it doesn't it say that somewhere? Yeah, of course.

Well, you can't be tolerant of intolerance. I mean, that's the problem with moral relativism and with this fear of passing any kind of judgment because it's a different religion. So what if they beat each other to death? Yeah, but it's like, do whatever you want, but don't let someone do something against someone's will to them.

100%. You can't tolerate intolerance. And behavior like that, obviously, is intolerance. That's where the buck stops. Bill Maher has spoken about this a lot. You know what's weird, though? Here's what to them. 100%. You can't tolerate intolerance. A behavior like that obviously is intolerance. That's where the buck stops. Bill Maher has spoken about this a lot. You know what's weird though? Here's what's weird. You said Bill Maher. Bill Maher gets labeled as an Islamophobe, which I find

fascinating because progressives, for some reason, it's almost like they're bullied so they want to make friends with the bully. There's this weird progressive thing where you don't criticize Islam. If you do, you become an islamophobe or if someone is criticizing other religions that's the first thing they say oh you never criticize you never criticize islam how come you never say shit about islam yeah so it becomes this weird sort of polar because they're

so gangster yeah you know they'll kill you if you draw pictures of muhammad like they take shit to the next level. So the natural inclination of the biggest pussies on earth, which are the liberals for the most part. Let them do it. They not only let them do it, but support them. You're Islamophobic. You know, Bill Maher is an Islamophobe. Guess what?

You should be an you-believe-a-phobe. Whether it's UFOs or big four chupacabras or is Christopher because you're against them raping little boys if you believe anything that you haven't seen yourself or watched on TV You're an idiot. Well, this is the thing Joe This is the thing this is the thing you were talking about earlier and when it comes to the DMT experience of the psychedelic experience and the question is Does it matter if this is real or not? And I think it matters more than anything if it's real. We must understand reality from subjective reality. If we can, we should try to understand it.

For example, who was it? I can't remember who it was talking about. Only when it affects someone else, I would argue. But I'm saying it doesn't matter because it's the same experience. The experience is not a tangible, rock-solid, carbon-based, touch-a-table experience. The experience is this spiritual, which I fucking hate to use, but there's no other way to use it, disembodied consciousness. It's a disembodied consciousness experience. Why would that be the same as an experience that's real where where you can touch paper here's why here's why um if you take let's take i can't where is

that people go to get healed lords i think is what it's called the water where you go yeah so i can't remember who wrote this i think it might have been sagan or no it might have been feinman i can't remember which one talking about how it's important to understand if this phenomena is real or subjective because because if it's real then that means that we should understand what are the properties of these waters is it something in the land is it something in the air and if we can understand that then we can help the whole planet with us in the same way if the dmt or the psychedelic experience is taking us into a state that is non-subjective, that is external, is actually introducing us to entities or intelligences

that somehow exist outside of our own being. Let's extract it. It's incredibly important to begin to communicate with them in a real way. But what is real? That's where it becomes. When you're talking about an outside-of-the-body experience, an experience that transcends the physical flesh, it could still be real but not be measurable.

It could still be real but you can't put it in a bucket and throw it on a scale. It's not measurable. It doesn't mean it's not real. It could be a chemical gateway. It could be something we don't have an instrument to measure. We don't have a conceptual framework understanding. But it's still real if it happens. That's what my point is. The idea of the imagination, you imagine something,

the imagination is responsible for every fucking thing that a human has ever made. Sure. Clothes, this microphone that I'm talking to, this computer that I'm on, this clothes that I'm wearing, the car that drove me here, it's all manifest out of the imagination. So the imagination is fucking real as shit. 100%. And before you created those things, when you just imagined them, you were conjuring up something that didn't exist. And the fact that we then brought it into existence proves, well, it at least existed as a potentiality. It was allowed by the laws of physics. So then it makes you wonder, what are you tapping into when you're having that kind of vision? That disembodied, you know, reconceptualization of reality. When you live

in a world where there is no airplanes and you think that you could build a machine that will fly over the ocean and get you to this other place like to imagine that to even fantasize about yes we can utter it means that it's possible gene Roddenberry invented the iPad I mean really does anybody know how cell phones yeah but what do you do how a things? How a cell phone works? Look at stuff. I don't know. Did they swipe?

Yeah. They swiped? Yeah, they did it all. Picard. Oh, Picard wasn't Roddenberry, though, was he? Yeah, I think he did that and then died. Oh, poor guy. Yeah.

Well, he had a little success. But he didn't get to see the future. He didn't get to see Deep Space Nine, you're right. Those motherfuckers. I just think that if something, if it's, I think we should try. Be mourning Roddenberry's life because he never saw Deep Space Nine. He never saw the new Battlestar Galactica, which fucking, he's lucky. It's so good.

That show kicked his show right in the dick. Oh, yeah. I was going to say it was bad. Star Trek is such shit compared to Battlestar Galactica. Oh, my God. I never watched. Every problem you have, every time you're thinking like, oh, they're doing this is lame. Within two seasons, it'll pay off.

You'll be like, oh. Dude, Battlestar Galactica on the SyFy channel was the greatest SyFy show ever. Amazing. It doesn't get any props. Dealt with it in a real way. Yeah. Real like situations. Game of Thrones has whores, you know, and murders.

By the way, how hot is that robot bitch? The blonde one? In what show? The hotest. Ridiculous. You can take it. I've burned holes in socks. Oh, the Cylons.

The Cylons become hot chicks. That's part of the plot. Oh, cool. Spoiler alert. If you haven't seen the DVD series, you've got to get that. Get it right now. How do you have time? I was incredulous. Brian Callen told me about that. I'm like, you've got to get that. Get it right now. How do you have time? I was incredulous.

Brian Callen told me about that. I'm like, that's going to suck, dude. It's a remake of a show that was kind of hokey. This show is not hokey at all. Joe, in all seriousness, man, because you're one of the busiest people I know, how do you find time to watch Battlestar Galactica and Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones? Well, right now, I don't have hardly any time. But you already watched Battlestar.

It was a long time ago. You know, when I was just doing like Fear Factor in the UFC, I had way more time. Because back in the days of Breaking Bad, it just started.

Things were different back then. I watched most of Breaking Bad while getting tattooed. I watched like the first season while getting my left arm done. Right arm. Sorry. Held my right arm out.

Yeah, I'm trying to catch up on Breaking Bad. I fucking love it. Great show. It's so good, you have to catch up. You know what's better? Homeland. Homeland's pretty good. I heard that was better.

I watched season one. I'm up to season two. Stunningly good. Stunningly good show. What do you guys think of Walking Dead? It's awesome and sucks at the same time. It's hokey as fuck sometimes. No shit.

Every time they resolve a conflict, it's over the sucks it's okay yeah fuck sometimes oh shit every time they resolve a conflict is over the way they describe their emotions this guy now it's all done the guy the spoiler spoiler alert the bad guy the number one bad guy in the third season come on my cousin or you guys are teetering on the edge of fucking this whole thing up you

need to regroup get together as a group of writers do some mushrooms and figure out where the fuck you're going from here. Duncan, you told me that, that they had these other writers and then it got

really emotional for a while and then they came in and said, guys, everybody get the fuck out and they hired legit action guys. Here's the problem,

I think. The problem is TV, not the writers. It's what TV tends to do to creativity. If you read the comics, the comics are some of the most bleak,

horrific things that you've ever seen where it's like every few pages is a gut punch where you're like what the fuck it's not like this like emotional kind of sappy thing it's like you are existing in a world where you're you are going to die probably by being eaten by the undead yeah that's what they always say in apocalypse they always say wait but wait but sorry, but wait, but wait, but sorry. So what are you saying about that versus the world of TV? I'm saying what happens because TV is like, oh, we can't make it too dark.

We can't kill that character. Well, you think because there's an established business model and we have to keep some kind of stability in the system and we don't want to stuff this up that makes you question too much. They didn't like Homicide. Homicide didn't last because they didn't have any clear-cut victories for the good guys and bad guys. I'm going to do a spoiler. Is that why they call it programming?

Let me do it. Not with the series, but with the comic books. Can I do a spoiler? Why would you spoiler it? The comic books? Don't spoiler. You just spoiler alert. Say spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. It's a spoiler to me. You're not going to read the comics. How dare you? How dare you pretend I don't read? What are you going to get? No, listen to this bastard.

I had comics on my iPad once on a plane, and you mercilessly made fun of me for the entire flight about the fact that I had comics on my iPad. You know why I kept going? Why? Because you responded. I couldn't help myself. You responded. I'm like, oh, I got them dancing. You got to play dead in front of a bear, man.

You can't fight back. No, I'm a bear. I always thought of myself as a twink. I guess my time has come. Yeah, you were fucking dancing. You ever read The Road? That's pretty bleak. The Road is a fucking, you might as well just get punched in the face.

Just get kicked in the stomach instead of reading that book. I read that. I had to regroup for about a year. Also, this is what movie sent me into depression more than anything. Which one? Revolutionary Road. What's that? That's brilliant, dude.

Oh, my God. That was with DiCaprio and Kate Winslet. And it's about a married couple. And it flashes back and forth between the banality of day-to-day life, like what happens after you get what you want, versus the hopes and dreams of when they first met. God, it made me feel bad about existence for a while. It just didn't read about the bushes.

You know what it did? It made you collide against frustrated ambitions and a life of having to settle and settle and settle and settle and to become a stale facsimile of what you once were. It makes you go find your dreams after that. I am not buying it. Having to settle and settle and settle and settle and to become a stale facsimile of what you once were. It makes you go find your dreams after that. I am not buying it. The sequence is when they get excited about Paris is the best part of it.

Yeah. You're just like, oh, yes, they're going to move to Paris. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be like a Richard Linklater film. They're going to be in Europe. It's going to be so good. And then it doesn't happen. I know.

I was like, yes, it's going to be awesome for you. Yes. By the way, I want to give a report. I'm going to report on what you've been looking at on the laptop during this thing it's now gone from a series of videos of like weird vintage cars porsches at one point he was just looking at what he called an accelerometer you're just looking at like a car accelerator like the speedometer accelerating that was like five minutes a car speeding.

And now you're looking at pool. Well, I don't know if you know this, Duncan, but I'm crazy. What are you looking at? He's looking at pool cues? Is he looking at pool cues? He's looking at people playing pool. I have an ADD that you couldn't possibly understand. There's no rhyme or rhythm to it.

I need 13 different things going on in my life at the same time. It's like the drums on War Pigs. It makes no sense. I am what I am, son. Do you want to see a two-minute trippy video? Yes. I did a new video that says we are already cyborgs. It's kind of

about the stuff from the conference we were just at. Yeah, but let's pass that joint around before we get to that. No gay stuff either, right? I can't smoke the joint. I'll get you one. I'll get you your own. How about that? Oh, thank you. Oh, yeah. We live in the future. We're the world of abundance. We'll get you one. I'll get you your own. How about that? Oh, thank you. Oh, yeah. We live in the future.

We live in a world of abundance. Look at that, Duncan. We're the new Romans. Yes. Thanks, John. Broken Studios is the new Roman Empire for weed. I don't give a fuck, dude. We're so gangster. We'll barf and come back for more.

Yeah, we like vomitoriums. Did you ever go to one of those? A vomitorium? They exist? No, they just show the old ones in Israel and Jerusalem. Oh, no. They show you where you have to go to vomit and they come right back to party. They left out the part about fucking kids.

Wait, what's a vomitorium? You just eat and party and drink, just keep going and going. And you're like, oh, I can't eat anymore. You know that moment where you can't eat anymore? And then they vomit? You go to this room where you just get to vomit. And then you come back. They all play with each other.

It's like a urinal, but instead of peeing, you just vomit out as much as you can of the booze and the food, and you go back to drinking and eating. Yeah, the Romans supposedly did it with feathers. That was the, you know... Really? Oh, they stuck it down their throats. You've never heard this before? The vomitorium? That makes sense. Romans wanted to party so hard that they were willing

to just eat as much as they wanted to, and then throw up so they could eat again. The way Itzkoff thinks of living forever, they thought of partying forever. Right. Well, it's also because mortality was at such a high level back then. Ever-present.

Infant mortality was 50%. People were dying left and right in sword fights. Good things. That was some crazy-ass times. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But how much different is that? How much different? Shit.

Emergency. Your wife stood up with free t-shirts. I love it. That's my shirt. Oh, is it? That's no big deal. It's a HirePrimate.com shirt. Available at HirePrimate.com.

They're also great for mopping up spills. Yeah, you can mop up booze with them. They wash right off. Those salt crystals are great, man. I got to get some of those. They're cool if you want to bang yoga teachers. What? Salt crystals?

Yeah, nobody wants to do that. If you had a house and it was totally set up, like you were like, Sat Nam, come into my presence. Om. You had an om on the wall. And like these are beside your bed. Dude, you're in.

And all you need is like some quote From some really obscure Indian guy on the wall Like oh he's my guru I just have a video of Duncan playing behind the bed Oh Duncan gets to start singing shit That's my apartment Oh it's your apartment? I'm describing his apartment to the team I'm trying to fuck with him

You're like dude why are you telling people all my stuff? If you If Duncan could actually sing them songs, you could sing. You have chants in your head, right? I have chants in my head. Give me one. You know, the one I'm chanting right now is a great chant because it sounds exactly the way nitrous oxide sounds.

When you do nitrous oxide, if you chant it long enough, it's the sound of when you get super high. And so the chant is R-A-M, rom. It's simple. So the chant just goes rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom. Oh, that is when you do whippets. Rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom, rom. You hear that when you do whippets?

When you do whippets. Yeah, yeah. That sound just does that. You're hearing the om. What you're hearing is your brain cells committing suicide by slamming each other at high speeds. You're hearing your brain cells dance. You're hearing your brain cells tap dance and joy. Does that give you brain damage?

For just a short amount of time. Nitrous oxide? I'm pretty sure nitrous oxide is not good for you. It's the same thing dentists give you. I'm pretty sure going to the dentist is not good for you. You're right about that. Yeah. But that's a simple, great chant that you could do at any time.

Ram, ram, ram, ram, ram. Yeah, but what is that chant that you do, that crazy one that you have memorized? That's what I'm talking about. You know that whole, oh, my God. Oh, my God. You have it memorized now. That's the chant. That goes, oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Shit. Do you still do that thing with the bit that you use that in? I lost it. What? So wait, what is that? That's amazing.

That's a chant that you say at the beginning. You might pray if you were into bhakti yoga. You would pray that prior to reading the Bhagavad Gita. And that's a prayer that is basically... The first verse is very beautiful. It goes, I was born into the darkest of ignorance, but my spiritual master opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge, which I love that a lot.

But it's like basically the idea is like when you come into contact with truth, which is what any of the sutras are. By the way, I love the Bhagavad Gita, but I just started reading the yoga sutras of Patanjali, which are fucking great, man. They blow the Bhagavad Gita out of the water as far as i'm you don't find it pretentious at all what the the second thing you said i forget it sorry i was which which part i don't know yes i i was joking i think it can seem pretentious and i think that people can use it as a tail feather as you mentioned and i will fully admit that I've used it as a tail feather before. But I think in the same way that you were talking about how reproduction kind of lures you into creating robots or advances society.

In the same way, I think people get drawn to philosophy for reasons that are just like, well, this will make me seem smart. I don't think there's anything wrong with tail feathers. We don't. And I think that people worry about it in other people... But what's crazy about this stuff is that once you get into it for weird reasons, but once you get into it, then it starts deconstructing you. It starts breaking you apart because it's going to this very micro level of the way that we tend to work subjectively, which is what...

Well, but that subjective experience is the only thing that ultimately matters, you know, in terms of your interior world, right? I mean, you talk about truth. I think it was Werner Herzog, the documentary filmmaker, that was talking about the difference between ecstatic truth and factual truth. And he said, you know, if facts were the most interesting thing in the world, then the phone book would be

the world's most interesting book. But obviously there's this other experience that we still call truth. Maybe it's italicized or whatever it is, but it's that ecstatic truth. It's subjective truth. It's the truth of the poet. You know, a journalist may be more accurate in describing the facts of an event,

but a poet may never the less reveal... LeBron James dug deep and found the way to overcome the spurs. Whatever it is, the poet reveals deeper truths as if I know place in the other's literal grid. Well, this is... Werner Herzog is an interesting cat. Very interesting. Oh, I fucking love him, man. Whatever it is, the poet reveals deeper truths that find no place in the other's literal grid. Werner Herzog is an interesting cat.

Very interesting. Oh, I fucking love him, man. I just saw him in Spring Breakers. Wait, no, not Spring Breakers. What did I see? He played a villain? No, Jack Reacher. Yeah, he's so good. He was great, but wasn't it weird?

Milky eye. He's got that milky eye. He's a good actor. He's a great actor, which is weird. Yeah, I love Werner Herzog, man. He's the shit. I would really love to get him off the record to give his opinion

on Grizzly Man, whether or not he knew that he was making a comedy. He knew. No, Werner Herzog knows he's making comedy, because in all of his documentaries is an element of comedy. He's mocking the person that is... He is smart enough to know what the person watching his movie is thinking, and he knows

when he does this stuff, he knows that we are thinking, this has got to be a comedy. Werner his movie is thinking. And he knows when he does this stuff, he knows that we are thinking this has got to be a comedy. Werner Herzog is hilarious. If that's the case, then in that sense, then that might be Grizzly Man might be the greatest creation of comedy. Yeah, real subtle. It's a wonderful comedy. So subtle and

so goddamn brilliantly crazy. It's wonderful. It celebrates people and all their wackiness. And there's like a certain comfort in watching a film about a guy who's completely off the rails, that's living with grizzlies.

Yeah. Like it as we, you know, we might not like it, but it makes us feel better about ourselves, man. When we got a guy who's way more fucked up than us, it makes us feel better

about ourselves. But did you find him also kind of fascinating? Fuck yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought it was actually fascinating because that's the thing about when you watch a movie. I mean, part of what happens when you're watching a movie is the same thing.

They've done REM on people when they, they've done fMRI scans on people when they watch movies and they say it's very similar to when you're dreaming. So the self, the kind of the self-awareness disappears. So that's why you're able to like become the character that you identify with. They call it the diectic shift when you assume the viewpoint of one of the characters. So you watch a film like Grizzly Man, it allows you to actually enter the consciousness perhaps of this person. And that's what the whole thing about cinema allows us to do. That's why a film like that might be fascinating.

Say that name for the shift again. The diectic shift. See, I love that term, man, because enlightenment is the ultimate shift, which is where you do the diectic shift from yourself to the whole. That's the idea. It's like we are always on the precipice of this final shift. And we're terrified to make that shift because we want to be an individual.

And the idea of going backwards that one time, of taking off the neurological VR goggles, the sociological VR goggles. The consensus trance, the cultural operating system. We don't want to do it. We don't want to do it. It's terrifying. It's easier to become another person in a movie than it is to become the cultural operating system. We don't want to do it. We don't want to do it. Well, it's terrifying.

It's easier to become another person in a movie than it is to become the whole. Yes. Just you explaining it makes my heart race. It's terrifying. No, but the reason I did it is because I love movies a lot. Since I was a little kid, I would watch movies. And one of the coolest experiences is that you became Indiana Jones. Like, for two hours, you were Indiana Jones. So what is happening?

Like, how come sometimes you become the Jones. So what is happening? Like how come sometimes you become the movie and other times you don't? And when you don't, like life sucks, right? Like, oh, I'm watching this movie. It's not sucking me in, right? So then I wanted to study that.

And they say that, you know, movie watching and dreaming are strangely familiar experiences, similar experiences, but apparently it has to do with your self-awareness, the lateral prefrontal cortex, the same thing that turns off when people are in flow states,

when rappers are freestyling. The self-editing, the self-consciousness disappears. And we love transcending our self-consciousness because it's the moment in which we see that there's an infinite amount of subjective experiences that we can have. We can be Indiana Jones. We can be anybody we want. We're not bound by our individuated state, which as amazing as it is, it's still limited. Is that lateral prefrontal

cortex that you're talking about, is that the neocortex? I have no idea. It says lateral, so I imagine it's on this side. The reason I saw this is because they were talking about it in the article about movies and you blending into the I saw this is because it was talking about it in the article about movies and you blurring, blending into the films. But also another article was talking about flow states and when they did fMRI scans on freestyle rappers versus memorized. And it was like the same thing. But this is a terrifying thing for people. The flow state that you're talking about, if you have identified yourself with a level of suffering or with a level of control or with a level of always being the thing driving the car Then this flow state you're talking about is a form of death

You don't want to be there a lot of people the people who are well Suck in bed are the ones who are the most wanting to be in control the people who have the most awful marijuana trips are always The control freaks it's like they can't they could but think about it The reason that movies are so good at it is because first, they sit you in a really comfortable place. It's a comfortable seat.

You're in the dark. The phones are off. They make sure that you are comfortable so that they can ease you in. And when the movie starts, you're still yourself. You're still fidgeting.

You might have to pee. But as soon as it starts, they guide you with music. The set and setting inform the direction that your consciousness is going. And before you know it, you're on a ride. Like the roller coasteraster has started and all of a sudden you forget yourself

you are the story just like mushroom trips and then at the end of the day it becomes the most the best experience ever right because when the great movie is done you're like wow that was awesome I don't know where I went but I loved it right but when the movie sucks it was a really unpleasant experience so we love losing ourselves but it's also what we're most terrified of. So this is the idea that when we die, the exact same experience happens where you're like, holy shit, that was fucking amazing. I thought I was a human? Wow!

No kidding, right? Well, maybe it's just an extended period of dreaming. Maybe it's a movie within a movie within a movie. The dream state of eight hours becomes a dream state of 80 years. That's why the movie Inception is so brilliant. Yeah. When they go into limbo. Limbo was 80 years.

Our entire life could be one of those limbo's. And we forgot that we decided to go to sleep. We could be in the dream within the dream within the dream. Inception didn't really lock me in. I don't know why. You should have been more high when you saw it. I don't know. Maybe.

I would have know why. You should have been more high when you saw it. I don't know. Maybe. I would have understood it. I think Inception was a little too refined. You had to follow it a little too closely. It was a little too much like a Rubik's Cube or something. I'm sure you liked that. I'm sure your mind likes that. It wasn't like The Matrix, which is sort of more of a visceral thing, but still they're both pointing to the same idea, which is that whatever your experience of reality is may in fact just be a dream state or some kind of hallucination or an aspect of a simulation that you've become absorbed into. You know, it's interesting you mentioned that because I actually brought something to read to you guys about the Matrix.

So I'm going to load it up. Oh, cool. And it's exactly about this conversation we're having it's almost like i thought at some point we're gonna start talking about blending into movies and breaking the ego and that whole thing so that lady that was suing the person that uh the brothers that made the matrix do you remember that whole thing she lost did she really there was a settlement maybe i think there was a settlement yeah i think i remember that yeah that never means thought she lost. Did she really? There was a settlement, maybe. I think there was a settlement. Yeah, I think I remember that. Settlement.

Yeah, that never means anything, does it? Right? It sometimes means you want your sister back. Oh, right. You're just bored of dealing with it. Yeah, sometimes it's that. It doesn't mean, like, you're going to win. How about we just stop this right now?

Yeah, sometimes it's that, too. It's different things. Settlement, you know, maybe she had an original idea, and they took it to a different place, but maybe they can trace the origins of that idea. Yeah, you have 50 bucks, can trace the origins of that idea. So get the fuck out of here. Bitch. Who is this?

There was a woman who sued the brothers for making the Matrix. Former Wachowski brothers. Now they're Wachowski's siblings. Really? Yeah. I feel like I need Gloria Larson. That's lame. Gloria Larson?

You're just going from memory on that? That'd be great if you got it right. Why won't the story about Sophia Stewart in her own Matrix? No's not a matrix let's hear it okay let me read you this while you search for that so this is article by Eric Davis and he's talking about Descartes and the matrix and the and the false reality genre of filmmaking so films that reveal a crack in your reality the possibility of a hidden door of a rabbit hole to fall through and so he says we you know that scene in The Matrix when he's in the hotel room and they're about to give him the pill?

Yes. Okay, that's the craziest part of the movie. So he says, we too are in that decrepit hotel room with Laurence Fishburne's Morpheus, who is really speaking to us when he addresses Neo, the ever-wooden canneries. You know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You felt it your whole life. You've felt that something is wrong with the world.

You don't know what, but it's there like a splinter in your mind. And establishing that itch, which I suppose most of us share, however we interpret it, Morpheus offers to scratch. He will give Neo nothing more than knowledge of the truth, i.e. no solutions to the problems posed by said truth. And then he goes on and he says, like a serpent in the Garden of Eden, which, okay, so hold on. Morpheus offers Neo a pill. Like the serpent in the Garden of Eden,

Morpheus offers Neo a pill. Neo, of course, swallows the molecular package, which is really the most heroic act in the film. For Neo must then pass his own Cartesian passage through madness, melting into the mirror that alludes not only to Lewis Carroll, but to the mystic psychotic collapse and disappearance of the externalized ego that stabilizes our inner void. As Neo phases out of the Matrix, he opens up, however briefly, the fractured bardo that is the secret thrill of every fan of the false reality genre the moment when baseline

reality dissolves but no new reality has yet emerged in its pixelating weight cool that's great man i mean the fact that eric davis reads this deeply into the film that's why you guys got to chat with him yeah so let's listen to the story tell the case she it was dismissed when she failed to show up for a preliminary hearing of her case. Oh. So that can mean one of two things.

It can mean she's crazy or they paid her to not show up. No. She would just like... No. Why not? They made a settlement

with her off the record. Yeah, but they don't just not show up and they say like we made a settlement. Maybe they scared the shit out of her and told her not to show up.

Something happened. She didn't show up. You think they scared her? The Walenskys? I mean, maybe she had no case at all and she was just crazy but the guy sued me because i was your lawyer oh that's right the angel of god the angel of god yeah i was his lawyer he i had to go i had to get a lawyer to go to court yeah how long were you in court with that thing about a year are you

kidding yeah how many times did you have to go to court to keep responding to keep responding to them he sued me for being a false prophet and no no i'm sorry he wanted he wanted to point yeah and uh uh being a bad lawyer um and the better business bureau came after me so you lost the case no this girl lisa helped me fight the case and had to show her he was suing me for um all the riches in the world the show or he was doing for um all the riches in the world and then when they when she had to read it to the judge like this guy's crazy she's like what do you mean because read that and she did the judge read it and he was like oh and so they made him rewrite it and he goes okay that 800 billion dollars was what he's doing for all the riches in the world that leaves a lot on the table it's a lot of room for negotiation.

I mean, assuming that you're going to continue to be more successful. He did promise me, though, that when he did eventually become king of kings, he could repay me with untold riches. King of kings is a big, big title for a guy living in a homeless shelter. I represent him pro bono. I love this guy's levels of riches. He has all the riches in the world, but that's exceeded by untold riches. No, all the riches in the world is more. Well, then if you pay him all the riches in the world and he pays you back in untold riches, you're getting ripped off.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a bad. That's what he's suing me for. I denied him. Then why? He's not really paying you back. He's giving you a little bit of what you gave him. He's giving me some for helping him.

Yeah. That's about right. You're just saying riches are confined to the world, Ari. I disagree. Untold riches could be all the riches in the universe. You should have had me as an attorney. Maybe I'll hire you to represent me. That would have been amazing.

Fake attorney Duncan represents fake attorney Ari being sued by crazy guy. He kept trying to use bigger lingo because I would sometimes. So he'd be like, we're two four. The plaintiffs who are attacking me, he also wanted to sue San Diego State Hospital and I think they really

fucked him up. I think he got in a slight war there. Oh, really? Yeah, I think. He wanted to sue that guy, Dean. Galber. No, who talked to the dead? Dean something? Dean Edwards? John Edwards? that guy, Dean. Galber. No, who talked to the dead? Dean something? Dean Edwards? John Edwards?

John Edwards, yeah. Dean Edwards is a comic. Because it was just like the guy who ran for president. Dean Edwards. Yeah, and I remember saying, he said he wanted to sue him for being a false prophet. And I was like, why would you get that money? Hey, wait, can I change the subject? You're still talking logic with a crazy guy.

Let me change the subject for two seconds. You're talking about just because we're talking about riches outside the world yeah oh yeah this meteor harvesting thing do you know about this planetary resources yeah oh yeah peter diamantis is behind it dude they just launched a million dollar kickstarter project to create a space telescope for public use because you know they're launching a whole fleet of tiny space telescopes to scan for near-Earth asteroids that we can then land on and leverage for resources. Hold back and mine. A typical one has like a trillion dollars worth of plutonium,

for example. Oh, my God, insane. Because that's why they're doing it. They're not doing this when they're talking about how NASA wants to grab an asteroid or a meteor. It's a meteor or an asteroid? Asteroid. Asteroid.

When they say this, you know they're not doing this. You know it's not just scientific reasons. They don't just want to harvest this shit. It's riches beyond all previous limits, but it's okay because that's just an incentive. Yeah, if they can really pull it off and that helps everybody. That's why they would go do that. That's why there's technology.

So they're saying there's plutonium in those things. So that somebody can make money and then get laid. How do they know there's plutonium in those things. So that somebody can make money and then... How do they know there's plutonium in those things? Oh, they know. They know the chemical composition of all that stuff. Is it based on asteroids that have fell into Earth? Just like they can make estimations about what Jupiter is composed of. I mean, that's what's kind of insane about humanity.

That's exciting. We can actually use our brains to extend our sensory apparatus beyond Earth. What's the mechanism of determining the contents of an asteroid? I have no idea. Do you know they knew the last few elements of the paradox table? They knew how much they'd weigh. That's insane.

They knew where they'd fit in in that chart. They're like, we haven't discovered them, but we know exactly what they'll weigh and how much their mass would. The ability of the human brain to acquire such knowledge about the building blocks of the physical world, what does that say about us as this unique- See, you keep lumping me into that group,

and that shit's preposterous. Those aren't even related to me. Those are totally different kind of animals, those people that are figuring that out. But I don't think they are because the fact that we can have this conversation means we can acknowledge some kind of understanding of what we're talking... I mean, I think that... It's childlike. It's a childlike understanding.

Comparison to the dude who figured out what a quark gluon plasma particle would weigh and then made it. Made something that if you get a sugar cube of it'll fall straight through the center of the earth because it'll weigh like 400 billion pounds or something fucking crazy. So you think it's just a different kind of animal? You think it's just a different kind of brain?

You think if we went and sat with him for a couple weeks he could explain it to us? I think in normal terms. I think people are remarkably adaptable and people go down certain paths, I think, in life. And if you meet a guy who's been a ballet dancer since he was four years old, and now he's 25 and doing these twirls in the air and shit,

you would look at that guy moving, and I don't know why I chose ballet dancing. Let's just go with it. But you would look at that guy moving, going, like, that guy is so far down the path, I could never possibly catch up to him. Right. But I think human beings have a capacity for continuing down a path in a very far way

to the point where they're almost unrecognizable from when they first started. An insane specialization. Like a malleability. I know that from martial arts especially. It's amazing how you can see that about, let's say, a ballet artist. Dancing and stuff. Like, wow, I could never do that. And you could easily say, there's no way I could.

But everybody thinks they could do stand-up. Isn't that funny? With no training at all. Isn't it funny that they don't really know what we're doing? It's like they think that we're just telling jokes. And we absolutely are. But it's all about where to put them, how to say them, how to structure them. I think they're modern philosophers.

They're stand-up philosophers. It's also hypnotism. Because there's some weird thing that you're doing where you can get them into the way you're thinking Oh, they're raising their voice, lowering their voice. Yeah, and you get them tuned to the way you're thinking by giving them shit that they want to listen to And if you can find that rhythm like where it's it's a thought that they would entertain themselves then they'll allow your mind to work for them because like oh this guy's got a very aware mind i'm curious to hear what how he looks at things i'll allow him to think for me it's the same thing presidents do yeah and in those moments those people are plugging into you the same way when you watch a movie you become the character in the movie those people are plugging into you

and in that moment when you enter that flow state do you feel like a conductor in an orchestra like literally like you move sort of not even that. That's exactly how it is. Yeah. I mean, it's like you guys are in a flow. You become in sync. Something there is interesting that's happening. And I don't know if we can even measure that. Like when people sync up like that.

Whether it's lots of people to one person or lots of people to lots of other people. Yeah, you don't have a scale for that. You don't have a scale for that feeling. I think you can study the way that metallic particles react to magnets. I think you can look at the way sound waves affect water. We use those metaphors. We say he's so magnetic when he's on stage. We use those metaphors to explain something

for which we have no instrumentation or way to quantify or measure, yet we employ those capacities. We use those capacities. We pay people millions of dollars because they're charismatic. How do you measure charisma? Is there a little machine that measures it,

like radiation? He has 97 kevins of charisma. So we employ these things, but we can't measure them. They exist, but we can't measure them. But you can focus attention. And attention is a specific pattern of neural activity. So the idea is that you have this group of people and you're transforming their neural activity

to match some intention that you have, whether it's because you want them to listen to your speech about hotels, or whether you want them to laugh. Don't you wish there was a special light you could use that could show that energy? Yeah, exactly. Oh, I'm getting it. Okay, I know where I am now. Show the vibration.

We can see the cell phone signals going through us right now. If I could see how my attention is being captured. But go and watch a group of people dancing who are all in ecstasy. Or look at the way fish move around a coral reef. Yes. Or look at, you know fish move around a coral reef or look at you see this exact same undulating quality

insane like a hidden order to things well there's an essay dude called virtual reality and hallucination written by Diana Slattery

on reality sandwich and it's all about that she says the capture and management of attention is a vital component a state of immersion a state of absorption

is a vital component in any kind of interpersonal transformation or education or influence of any capacity or growth in other words you need to be completely sucked into whatever it is that's going to really like transform you'll get inside of you yeah so it all has to do with the capture and manage management of attention and what are psychedelics if not attention technologies rhetoric technologies what isics if not attention technologies? Rhetoric technologies. What is language if not a technology

to capture attention and shift awareness? Well, that makes sense that any discipline is a psychedelic experience in the long haul. Yes. Because disciplines transform you.

Yes. Yes. And they focus attention. Yeah. Tarantino said, for Pulp Fiction, he just wanted people to put the laundry away

while they were watching. Just not fold shit. Just look at it. That's all he wanted. What? So he'd get lost in it. So you could get people on your side. Focusing attention is the key to everything. If we had the power to decide at any given moment

to focus our attention on the best possible thing that we could focus our attention on, our life would be like a living, breathing sculpture. It would be like a dream constantly running. Paul Mooney's the best at that. Or it would just be you jerking off in the new socks. But think about how... It sounds like a dream socks. But think about how profitable being able to grab people's attention is. Oh, my God.

It's everything. It's everything. It's the currency of this new age. Attention is the new limited resource. Attention is the new oil. In a world of social media, of infinite media, infinite channels, who succeeds but the one who is most physically able to capture and manage attention and that's where like colors the phenomenon of something like this you guys I'm always talking about

like you know it's been a year and people are still saying come back and have this conversation I mean that just means that you've tapped into a nerve that millions are feeling and when you consider that 10,000 hours of content is uploaded to YouTube every hour that you still have millions of people that come and join this conversation, shows, like, the power of that. Like, it's like, you know, shining a little bit brighter than the other 10,000 hours. But it's a funny thing when the attention doesn't tune in. Like, when you see Obama in Germany recently, did you see that shit?

The speech he gave? Ooh, it's creepy. That's, like, Alex Jones-level creepy. That's like Alex Jones level creepy. Why? Because nobody paid attention? Well, no. Aside from the fact that there was only like, the first time he came there, it was packed. Hordes of people came to see him.

This time it was sparse and empty. But what was really creepy was his echoey message about how we have to give up freedom for security. And you hear this coming out. It's like- Obama was saying it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. He was saying he was fucking sticking up for the goddamn NSA because this leak. Can you pull up that, Jamie? See if you can find that. It might be a long speech, but it was spooky. He's out there baking in the heat, sweating and giving this this proclamation of how there's a balance between security. He was just talking about the importance of the security state.

There's a balance between – he was just talking about the importance of the security state. And by the way, there's a logical part of my brain that considers what they're saying. I have to allow myself to give consideration to what they're saying. Well, me too. Me too. Of course. You know what I mean? But there's another – Well, especially because I'm thinking, well, if this allows them to stop somebody from blowing themselves up in the subway, then cool. What a pickle you're in what a pickle you're in if if you do if you know that if i have this much what uh width when it comes breadth when it comes to monitoring then i can stop people from getting blown up what happened at the boston marathon i can stop a kid from

getting turned into fucking hamburger meat right that so now you're basically saying well what do we do here are we going to just do we just, well, I guess the cost of people's privacy is that from time to time children get evaporated? Or do you say, no, we've got to grow up to the fact that we're an interconnected system. We're all cells in a bigger organism. And we don't want to give up on security as a people. I don't think the price is worth it. We can't trust the government.

Not only that, I think we're looking at the thing incorrectly. I think the thing they should be concentrating on is the mental health issue. What makes people willing to lash out and kill large numbers of people? That's another thing. Instead of investing in defense, you can invest in research for mental health, and you would solve a lot more murders. We know when babies are born. Potentially, I agree with that.

We have birth certificates. We know where people are born. Potentially, I agree with that. We know we have birth certificates. We know where people are living. We have social security numbers. Why can't we find out whether or not people are doing really bad? Why can't we find out whether or not people are losing their minds? Well, it's hard when they're in Yemen. No, I mean even in America we can't find out. I think we do not have an accurate account of our citizens

yet we can pretend that we're some sort of a community. But we don't have an accurate account of the health of our citizens. When SAG told me they weren't going to cover my mental health anymore because of some type of Obamacare that went into action, they said you can't carry everybody, you can't carry them all. So only plan one gets it, plan two gets none. And I was like, I hope another Jared Loeffner goes

into your building and shoots every one of you. Did you say that? Right after that, they're going to pull everyone's mental health insurance? Yeah, because you say that? Yeah. What, are they going to pull every, right after that, they're going to pull everyone's mental health insurance? Yeah, because that crazy guy lost his health insurance. Well, that's what you're turning us on. One of us is going to do that. But let me ask you something.

Do you think that when a person implodes like that, like if we're talking about what happened to that person on like a human scale, we might say, okay, well, maybe, you know, years of disaffection and radicalization and propaganda and mediation from the wrong influences and his focused attention on the wrong place. It could be mental health as well. It could be a real issue, a medical issue. Right, but let's zoom out for a little bit and think of that person as a cell in the bigger organism. Is he like a cancer cell? Is he the equivalent of like when a cancer cell starts to like replicate without concern for the rest of the cells in the system? I mean is that what it is? Is it a broken thing? Could it be fixed? Like just like we want to make advances in medicine to detect cancer cells before they, you know, metastasize,

can we find human beings before they metastasize into that? I think it's not an either-or. I think sometimes yes, sometimes no. I think sometimes it's probably a medical issue. Yeah, what about research in terms of being able to find it? To find the genetic markers that predispose you to that. But isn't culture ultimately the technology that does that? Isn't culture, like when we call TV, we call it programming. It programs you. It teaches you about right and wrong and what's legal and what's not legal. And if you're part of the pop culture, you're programmed into a kind of mainstream consensus trance

that basically says we're moderately free as long as you don't physically hurt me and I don't physically hurt you and you don't do certain things but we have these kind of frameworks to impose some kind of an order so that the system can have some kind of function so it just makes you wonder

especially with the privacy things are they really spying on me or is it more like I'm a billion lines of code mixed with a billion other lines of code and just a bunch of algorithmic cascades? And then they just detect

when there's weird behavior associated with violence that they would zoom in on something. Or they will use anything you've done wrong as an excuse to go and really go after you.

They don't have the manpower for that. They don't have the manpower for that. No, but if they already want to fuck with you, they can look at your stuff and say, oh, he owns

two larger lobster, which is a federal offense. All right, let me ask you whether or not you bought it from anyone. Why would already want to fuck with you, they can look at your stuff and say, oh, he owns two larger lobster, which is a federal offense. All right, let me ask you. Whether or not you bought it from anyone, then they can use that to say he broke the law. Why would they want to fuck with you when there's people that want to blow themselves up in subways? Don't you think that that's going to occupy most of their attention? Let's say this. This is why.

Because some guy who works there, you fucked his ex-girlfriend. Oh, snap, son. God damn. Shit just got real. You know what I mean? So a human being. And then you're giving that guy the power to abuse it. That's what I don't like.

And that's what this guy is saying is absolutely possible. This guy is saying that the people that work at the organization like him, they keep referring to him as a high school dropout, which is hilarious. He was your coder? Didn't you hire him? Are you pretending you don't know this guy? By the way, when has it ever worked? This is the question we have to ask.

You know that saying, if we don't understand history, we're doomed to repeat it. Let's look in the past. At what point has a government gained full access to the information flow of its citizenry where it hasn't gone wrong? Show me where. What nation has it been where it's like, oh, yes, that was that one government that knew, that studied all the correspondence of all its citizens, and it didn't go wrong at all. It didn't tighten down. It didn't become a security state.

It was a utopia. No. No. It doesn't exist. It's always bad. It's North Korea. Yes. Okay.

But here's the counterargument to that. Do you think that if, given the proper instruments, the citizenry could police themselves? Could we have a society that becomes like Airbnb, where everybody can rent their own place and everybody else judges everybody else? You don't need someone now to tell you about a good dentist. You can just look online and you're connected to all the citizens who have told you by four and a half stars. I was asking my brother, I was like, how do you know somebody from Airbnb is not going to be some serial killer who's going to cut me into pieces? He's like, well, because you can look

at the 50 other people that stayed at his house and they rate his cleanliness. You can go anywhere in the world and have this network. Same way hookers work now at Aeros.com. Networks that regulate each other. Self-regulating networks. So it's almost like we are connecting to each other and it's like a homeostasis is being formed where the system

is self-regulating. We made a government in a time where we didn't have that ability. And now we do. And I think it's time to rethink things. So the government is becoming obsolete. The government's an appendix. It's not utopia but these decentralized peer networks that self-regulate each other with no top-down management but just lateral

is leaning towards a kind of space in which we can can we have congress because we didn't have the ability to send represent ourselves yeah it's up from california we can't we can't speak in washington so we need to send some guy as our congressman to speak for us but now we can speak for ourselves right we don't need that a lot of people doing democracy 2.0 i mean we need literally like, if iOS doesn't get an upgrade for our iPhone every six months, we freak out. Like, we need to upgrade literally the way the whole governmental system works to use these new technologies. It should be online. It's really simple. The idea that anybody controls it is ridiculous.

It should be online. And there should be some sort of anonymous type group that controls the code to make sure that nobody can fuck with it. Like Bitcoin. You know, or someone who's on top of shit. Maybe the AIs. And develop like a global ethic amongst the hackers. Anonymous is us. By the way, no one's giving, here's the thing.

No one's giving this power up. Exactly. This is where I think that, this is where I think this fervent form of naive futurist comes into being where, and not just futurist, spiritualists and a lot of other people think, oh, you know, these, as you're saying, these, what do you call it, peerless networks? Yeah, these decentralized peer networks. And by the way, when I say you, I mean me too, because I do have this hope that somehow this thing is just like an escalation towards bliss and it's all going to work itself out. And I do think that. towards bliss and it's all going to work itself out.

And I do think that. But again, if you look back at history, you will see that even if a thing has become archaic and antiquated, it doesn't mean that the people running that thing are going to give it up. No, no, they don't want to give it up. They're not going to. The only way they give it up is through violence. Bam. That's our inevitability here.

We're in for a revolution here in our lifetime. Kurzweil says that that's actually not the case, and he says that the radio industry didn't want TV to become a thing. There didn't need to be violence for TV to become a thing. No, we're not talking about...

No, I'm ready to cheer it on. I'm a coward. I'm not going to get involved. But I'm ready to say, here's some water, you guys. Go out there and fight for us. But I think that these technologies will meet resistance from the establishment. But I don't think that it requires violence for transformation to occur. I mean, we're seeing it through social media.

What are you talking about? Syria, Liberia, the other one. I think you mean Libya. Yeah, that's the one. It always gets overthrown. They don't give up. They don't give up. And they have the guns.

So the only way to get them to give it up, taking the guns. Which other ways? When does it work? Younger people who are growing up with the internet. The die out thing. Who have a different understanding of the future. I don't think that a representative government is impossible. I just think that we have to have more accountability.

And the thing that gives more accountability than anything is the internet. It forces accountability. So I think ultimately it's an age thing. You can't record cops anymore? You can, though. You can. Yes, you can. They can arrest you?

No, they can't. No. I mean, individual places have passed laws trying to make that real. But there's a bunch of videos online that show people telling cops. They told me today I couldn't take a picture of a TSA. I saw a baby being left on the counter. So it's funny. So I took a picture.

Sir, you can't take a picture of the checkpoint. That's wrong. What you're telling me is not true. I'm going to take more pictures. I got to say, I don't want there to be violence, man. I don't think there needs to be. I think the dream, the naive dream of the futurists is it's like you look in the animal kingdom. You look in not just the animal kingdom, but you look at any massive change that has ever happened is always surrounded by a release of energy. When things rapidly change, there's a release of energy, and energy releases are always violent.

Bam! They're called explosions. Well, it doesn't have to be, though. It can be a psychic explosion. It can be a consciousness explosion. It doesn't require Hiroshima. I think we're experiencing that. It's just, again, the psychedelic state of seeing the whole history unfold in a matter of a few seconds. I think this is just slow, so we're not really understanding what's happening, but we're seeing all these... Well, the psychedelics are coming back. We're seeing all these things.

We're seeing all these paradigms crumble in front of ourselves. And the reason being is because they're being exposed. They're being exposed by the internet. It's just happening to us too slowly. Or it's too confusing as to which direction it's going to go. There's too much peril in it. It's the last few people that are like, hey, it's changing. No, no, no, no.

How do the robots make the Ayatollah understand that it's not good to put women in beekeeper outfits? How did... You know, I completely concur with that, but I had an interesting experience I was just in in Berlin for a couple days and I was hanging out of this I went to

this like steam room and spa over at the Soho house there yes and it's it's co-ed so beautiful naked girls are walking around and showering in front of you in in Germany and it's perfectly normal and of course I'm loving it but I'm also slightly like what's happening here? And then I think we're just as primitive here with separating the men's room and the female room compared to them. We're like the beekeeper suit. Do you know what I mean? Indeed.

I know what you're saying. And I would think of myself as, no, we're liberal here in America. But look how shamelessly those women are just walking around naked. I totally agree. It's like, relax are just walking around naked. I totally agree. It's like, relax. We're not fucking. I totally agree. I totally agree with you.

I think that what you're seeing is a spectrum of men kind of controlling women. Like if a woman takes her shirt off at the beach, she gets arrested in the United States. But I think that if I'm going to be on some part of that spectrum, I definitely want to be on the part of the spectrum where the definition of shirt is like a shoelace or something. I'd rather it be no shoelace at all. But in that way, all I'm saying is I don't understand the solution to fundamentalists of any religion controlling massive populations or, in the case of north korea uh people controlling mass i don't see how some android jesus i don't see how kurzwell's manifestation of full brain emulation and the subsequent empathic connection that happens with people i don't understand how that makes a person

who's wielded control over a chunk of land using a false god, I don't understand how that's going to make them be like, you know what? I guess I was wrong. But our society has been transformed by a change in consciousness. I mean, you could argue that the 60s fundamentally changed the way we think. I mean, this place used to be a lot more Puritan than it is now. Iran used to be a lot more liberal. Okay, so you have both things happening.

You have cycles, you have things between... I hear it's very liberal now amongst the people. Yeah, the actual citizens are very secular, but the government is what's really militant. There's a new guy who got an office, but there's always going to be the Ayatollah that's a supreme leader.

Yeah, exactly. It's really a weird situation. It's very strange. The guy who's the Ayatollah has been the ayatollah since like 89 or something like that really yeah yeah it's something crazy like that it's yeah well you know what man but let me just say this because i don't want to come off sounding like ari like i want some violent revolution i don't want one i see it inevitable have you ever have steven pinker on the show i don't think it's so steven pinker called better angels of Nature. He wrote a book called Better Angels of Our Nature.

It's a TED talk called The Myth of Violence. And he actually went up there and explained that the chances of a man dying at the hands of another man today are the lowest they've ever been in all of human history. The world has actually never been less violent than it is today. But look at Syria. 100,000 people. It's a lot. But I guess what he's saying is that it used to be worse. The Mongols killed a million in a day.

Right, right, right. I see what you're saying. Yes, again, it's that spectrum. It's a spectrum. In a day? Yeah, some insane number. I might be exaggerating. Well, there were battles like that in World War II.

72 hours they killed a million people with horses on horseback. Awful. No nuclear bomb, just swords. They must be so tired after that. You're chopping arms. Oh, God. Just hacking. That's when you got to run when they're that tired.

After they killed a million people. Yeah. A million. Yeah. We have to really sort of grasp. It's hard to, but we have to try to grasp. Just what a short period of time we haven't been barbarians. Yeah. We have to really sort of grasp. It's hard to, but we have to try to grasp. Just what a short period of time we haven't been barbarians. Yeah.

I mean, even the Catholic Church, I mean, you go back to the 1500s. They were drinking. They had, like, mistresses. The popes had mistresses. They even raped kids back then. They had armies. Yeah. They raped kids.

They had armies. They had full armies. They had armies. The pope had armies. The Catholic Church had armies. The Vatican even raped kids back then. They had armies. Yeah, they raped kids. They had armies. They had full armies. They had armies. The Pope had armies. The Catholic Church had armies. The Vatican had an army behind it. That's crazy.

I mean, you're talking about, like, really nutty shit. Like, they asked for the Pope's help once in fighting off the Mongols. Really? Yeah, they didn't want to send any troops. They got lucky. The fucking Mongols died off. Woo! Can I?

Here's the thing, man. I want to be pessimistic again because I keep thinking about this. So it's like, okay, in the same way that it used to be, if a person had a great idea and wanted to transmit it, he'd have to get a printing press and he'd have to get the idea around it. It took a long time. The idea would have to go by boats. So now it's like if you want to build a nuclear bomb, it's really hard.

You've got to have centrifuges, plutonium. It's a fucking bitch. You can't just do it if you want to build a nuke. But as 3D printers begin to become more and more advanced, and they start working at the atomic level, then in the same way that we have accessibility to instantaneous communication, people are going to have accessibility to instantaneous creation of all kinds of fucked up weapons.

That's when we're going to need an account of all the people in our community. That's when we're going to need an account of them in a loving way. No, but all it takes is one person. We have society looking out for each other. Yeah. All it takes is one guy in his basement with a nuclear bomb. You're right. You're right other. The idea is that every baby... All it would take is one guy in his basement with a nuclear bomb.

You're right. But the idea is that every baby has the potential to become an awesome human being. That's the idea. But some of them just get shit rolls of the dice. And they wind up with two asshole meth-head parents who fucking leave them in a basement one day for 24 hours and they starve to death.

You know, this shit like that happens to kids. You just get a shit roll of the dice. or you can get an awesome roll of the dice yes you know i mean that's possible too it's i think it's our job collectively as as a human species to concentrate on the least fortunate amongst us i think it's it's the the thing that everyone takes for granted everyone ignores and every single guy who runs for president doesn't bring it up. They never say, look, our society is only as strong as its weakest link. We've got a bunch of people that are being ignored. And they're an awesome resource. If we educated them and helped them and moved them forward in some way, who knows what kind of great benefit you could get out of this community of people.

It's true. I just think of that guy on Locked Up Raw. That one, like that one like you know like the guy i can't remember which guy it is like one of these like the people that you see in locked up raw or just like yeah you know like i i think because you know i've i've thought oh i know the way to fix that is like you flood the prisons with lsd and like give these people therapy would help a little that would definitely help a little you're eventually gonna have a 12 monkey situation. I think you can do a psychedelic therapy. Somebody's going to have so much effect on the rest of the population with like a toxin or like a bunch of nuclear weapons that it'll just drastically change everything.

Well, you know what? I think society has always thought that this was coming or not. You know, it's like there's always people that believe that the apocalypse is around the corner, and there's always people that had faith. And like Jason said, this is the safest time to be alive ever, but yet we're still like, fuck, the sky's falling. It's almost like a part of being a human to recognize all the flaws around us to make it glaringly obvious that we're aware of them and to focus more attention on them and hopefully slow down the progress of the evil.

Us being scared and neurotic and almost negative has been biologically selected for to warn us against potential consequences. The early caveman who was chilling out looking at the sky got eaten quickly. The one that was scared of impending doom survived.

So there's no coincidence that we have evolved that. But until we start playing with our own genomes, we can't change our basic dispositions, which is to pay attention to whatever we think is dangerous. But I think it does have, you know, knowledge is power.

When you appreciate, oh, really? The world has never been safer? That's interesting. Not to say there's not a lot of things to worry about. It's not to say that there's not school shootings

and 3D printing guns could be dangerous, but let's look at the actual facts as it is today. Yeah, but all it would take, but in the beginning, if one guy out of 100 of them went a little nuts, he would

punch some people. And then as technology got better, he'd stab two people and then got stopped. And then as technology got better, he put off a bomb. And then as technology got better, he flew a plane into a building. And as technology gets better, you can affect millions and millions and millions of people all at once with just one

guy that falls in the cracks. It's very much like the internet. But it's funny, Ari, what you're saying goes against your hate of the surveillance state. Because you could see how in an accelerating technology where people can blow each other up with increasing competency,

you can see the necessity for perhaps an observation. That's what I'm saying. It's a pickle, man. Yeah, but I think that's going to happen anyway. You're never going to stay fully. You can't monitor everybody at all times. But just because something's going to happen doesn't mean you don't try to stop it.

You delay it. The trend seems irreversible. The trend towards everybody having access to everything at all times. I think we're going to have a real problem with money because money right now is just, you know, it used to be based on gold and now we got this ones and zeros thing that we're rocking that doesn't really make any sense at all.

I think that Bitcoin's not going to last, but I think the thing that comes right after Bitcoin is going to be the one. Oh, have you guys heard about this shit? But I wonder, I mean, I think it's we live in a really strange time because as access to information gets more and more transparent, more and more free, where we all have access to everything. Well, then what exactly is financial resources? It's going to become obsolete.

Where are those ones and zeros? Where do they go? No, none of it's of us sorry go ahead i'm just saying it's like there'll be a permeation point where transparency gets to a point where everyone has access to everything at all times you're not going to be able to store any secrets so you're not going to be able to have money you're not going to be able to put ones and zeros all in your bank account doesn't mean anything someone will take your ones and zeros but there also might not be a reason for anybody to hurt each other like you know it might not it doesn't have to be that right mckenna says we're all going

to move into universes of our own construction, but then Kurzweil and Peter Diamandis just say technology is a resource-liberating mechanism. The whole idea of scarcity is just contextual. We fight over 1% of the fresh water in the world when this is a water planet. Desalinization

revolution could give us all the water we could ever need. We fight over energy. We get 10,000 times more energy from the sun than we would ever need. With nanotechnology, matter becomes a programmable medium. We can turn anything into anything. So, I mean, when we have just like infinite abundance, potentially, what would we fight about? There would be no incentive

to fight. Pussy. We could clone pussy. We could clone. We live in virtual reality. You know what? It's like diamonds. Girls don't want fake diamonds. They want real diamonds. It came from coal. And the guys are going to want real pussy that you earn.

Oh, she's a real person? Well, we can have it in virtual reality. We'll have virtual games where we can be the heroes in our own universe. The flaw in your argument and the terrifying flaw in your argument is the assumption that people do things for a reason. You're saying people do things because they don't have enough or they do things because of this or that. Some of the most horrible things are done for no reason. You're saying people do things because they don't have enough or they do things because of this or that. Some of the most horrible things are done for no reason at all. They're done because the biocomputer that somebody's running

clicked the wrong way and they decided it'd be fun to hear the sound of a teenage boy's neck snap when they're painted like a clown. So that's a cancer cell. That's a thing that's not doing, it's not moving towards complexity and organization in the sublime. Like the rest of the evolutionary process. That's why thing that's not doing, it's not moving towards complexity and organization in the sublime. Like the rest of the evolutionary process.

That's why there's the urge to kill it. Right. There's the urge to kill it. But the interesting thing, and I think this, I heard, I think McKenna said this, there's this relay, there's a race happening right now. There's a race happening. Because it's not as though these two things can't exist at the same time. It's like, we were talking about this, and I've been thinking about it a bunch since, how, a bunch since how you know in phones of course there are conflict minerals what's the name of that shit in front what's it called tan so in phones is coltan so we know that in our phones in this

uh device that's allowing us this greater connectivity is the suffering of children and african and african minds so we see in nature that there is this intertwining of horror and of darkness and light. Very interesting. And to think that somehow technology is going to make things all light is to say that we will actually rewire the universe. When in fact it seems like what's happening is an acceleration on both sides of the scale. Both sides, yeah. on both sides of the scale. And as that acceleration happens, there will be an equivalent amount of this orgasmic utopian Taliar de Chardon Omega point

with the other side of the thing, which is the absolute obliteration of all humanity through nuclear weapons or bioweapons. Now, here's the hopeful thing is what Martin Luther King said, which is the universe bends

in the direction of justice. And there is this hope that there's a refraction in this lens where things are going towards the direction of creation instead of obliteration. Well, Stephen Johnson says it's not utopia, but it's leaning that way. So, you know, you could argue that things are better. They're not perfect. They're better. Technology amplifies the good in us.

It amplifies the bad in us. But maybe it amplifies the good a little bit more than it amplifies the good in us, it amplifies the bad in us, but maybe it amplifies the good a little bit more than it amplifies the bad, so that eventually it might subvert completely. That's the whole thing. The light might swallow the darkness. Extropy might transcend entropy completely. We might become immortal

gods living outside of time. Maybe that's the singularity. This sounds a lot like the battle between hell and heaven. It does, doesn't it yeah it almost seems like that was that happened before it's not a coincidence we need those archetypes to make sense of what's happening we've used the same archetypes religion salvation transcendence the same things the difference is that religion never produced what technology produced religion never let us fly through the air religion never gave us cell phones it never gave us the internet technology does so in the whole in the whole in our in our desire to to to to believe that these things are

going to help us transcend our limitations you know technology is actually delivering a little bit more than the previous stuff oh a lot more right how dare you with your a little bit well there you go a lot more cyborg arms trying to make friends. Kids are hearing again. They made Galileo apologize. Yeah, they said you dick. You were wrong. The church. What do you have to do with the... You guys want to see a trippy video about us being cyborgs?

Okay, we're going to wrap this up with this trippy video. Because I've got to get out of here. I've been working all day. Let's do it. Power to the people. Happy Mushroom Fest to everyone who's participating. Mushroom Fest, bitches. God is love.

Everything's going to be fine. Forget all that explosion shit. Yes, and before we go, we would just like to thank Hover.com. Go to Hover.com forward Rogan. Get 10% off of your domain name purchases and stamps.com. If you click on the microphone, enter in the code word JRE, get yourself a special offer. And on it.com. That's O-N-N-I-T.

Use the code name Rogan. Save yourself 10% off any and all supplements. I've had a wacky few, actually, like, month and a half lately, ladies and gentlemen. And I wouldn't have been able to do all this stuff if I didn't enjoy the shit out of it. And it's a fascinating

experience. So I want to thank all of you. And I want you guys to follow all my friends on Twitter, including Jason Silva. What is it? At Jason Silva. At Jason Silva. At Jason Silva. At Ari Shafir. Watch my storyteller show online on YouTube.

Yeah, there's a couple of them now. The first one was really good, too. Where did you film those? Cheetahs. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. That's what it looked like. It looked like film those? Cheetahs. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. That's what it looked like. It looked like some sort of a strip club type environment.

It's perfect. And TJ Miller's one was really good, too. That was really funny. And it's a really interesting sort of setup, the way you have it. I love that Comedy Central had the balls to put that online like that. Just produce it, make it like a real show, like a legit TV show, put it online. And if it gets a good reaction, they'll probably wind up doing something like that legit TV show, put it online, and if it gets a good reaction, they'll probably wind up doing something like that on television.

But all the comics, yeah, exactly. All the comics, like, you do what you feel is right. Yeah. So go and check it out and support it. Joey Diaz is coming. Support it, folks, because Ari Shaffir is a bad motherfucker. I'd like to do it on television for you guys, too. The concept is sound.

So pass it around to each other. And he would like to get some of that sweet, sweet TV money. Mostly, I really just want to put on a good show for people you do you do I want to check it out

your intentions are 100% pure you're a real legit comic Ari Shaffir it's an honor watching you grow from being a

dude who was just sort of getting on stage the first time to being a legit headliner it's awesome it's cool to see thanks man

same to you Duncan Trussell you sexy bitch YouTube Comedy Central this is not happening alright you fucks follow Duncan Trussell, you sexy bitch. YouTube Comedy Central, this is not happening. All right, you fucks. Follow Duncan Trussell on Twitter. Duncan, D-U-N-C-A-N, Trussell, T-R-U-S-S-E-L-L.

Listen to my podcast, Duncan Trussell Family Hour. Double S, double L, that's Duncan Trussell. Awesome. All right, you fucks. If I may add, I would love everyone to check out Brain Games on National Geographic. Yes, yes. I have a new series. It airs Monday nights at 9.

We're doing season two now in the fall, but currently we're still airing it. Next Monday is the final episode, actually, the 12th episode. So please check out Brain Games on National Geographic. And I also launched a new YouTube channel called YouTube.com slash Shots of Awe, where I'm releasing new videos of my crazy espresso psychedelic videos every week. So youtube.com slash shots of awe.

If Redman made that video it would be it would be shots of awe just AW and we'd just have kittens all day long. Well this one is shots of awe AWE

but if you check it out that new video is called We Are Already Cyborgs. That's the one I want you to check it out. Hopefully with that. Jason Silva. Do you have that thing queued up?

YouTube.com slash Shots of Awe. It's the first one down. It's called We Are Already Cyborgs. How dare you. We're already cyborgs. We can't get a goddamn YouTube video to play. You're fired. Destroy the planet.

How dare you. All right. Well, let's just recommend that people watch it. Yeah, sure, sure. It's called Shots of Awe on YouTube, and we are already cyborgs, which I concur, sir. Awesome. I concur. You're a bad motherfucker.

Cosmic Dick Slinger. Oh, yes. The great Jason Silva. Thanks for that. Thank you for having me. Powerful Ari Shaffir, powerful Duncan Trussell, powerful Jamie. We're out of here, you dirty fucks. We'll see you next week with new shenanigans, and Ari Shaffir and I go toussell, powerful Jamie. We're out of here, you dirty fucks. We'll see you next week with new shenanigans.

And Ari Shaffir and I go to Alaska to conquer the great white north. Yeah. Go fishing like a motherfucker. Get a reindeer, dog. All right, you fucks. Awesome. We'll see you soon. We love the shit out of you.

All right. Big kiss. Mwah. Mwah. Wow. That was awesome. Thank you.