The Joe Rogan Experience - #384 - Ian McCall

Episode Date: August 13, 2013

Ian McCall is an American mixed martial artist competing in the flyweight division.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Powerful Ian McCall. Dude, thank you so much for doing this, man. Thank you for having me. Much requested by the Underground Forum. Yes, the UGCTT, my loyal followers. Yeah, what does that stand for?

The Underground Creepy Top Team. And these guys, I've been there forever. I've been on the Underground since 2002 or 2001, I think. But they made this themselves. They called themselves the UGCTT to make fun of all the other top teams in the world. That's why all the shirts have it on it. That's why we don't make money off the shirts. Oh, that's funny.

We just make enough to pay for it and then we give away tons of shirts i mean it's yeah that underground's kind of mine of its own yeah they could sway the the opinion of of yeah the sport i think itself yeah and it's it's funny how like these things sort of just sort of they just come out of nowhere on a forum and then it becomes like a meme and then it takes off like uh like the underground, it was always beep, the homo detector. Like threads would always have beep. Like someone would, you could clearly see that some guys would troll for beeps too. Yeah, of course.

But still, it's very common. If something happens, some guy has his shirt off, beep. I had a long thread on the underground for a while. I don't know if you ever saw that. What was it? The thread of the women that I was sleeping with. No, you had a thread with all the women you were sleeping with? I wasn't aware of that.

I was getting in trouble for it, too. Yeah, that would seem like that could get you in trouble. But there was no nudity. Oh, no nudity. But it was, you know. There was, honestly, probably a couple hundred on there. It was like a year long and it just got ugly

and then some people obviously complained and threatened me. I was like, well, you're not naked on there. There's stars over your parts. It was funny. At the time, it probably felt like it was a better idea at the time. Yeah, yeah.

This was before I was in the UFC. This was before I was... It was a while ago, and I just thought I was cool. And that's really all. I'm only good at the physical things. Everything else I suck at. Fighting and women, I'm all right at. Well, the Underground has produced some of the most epic threads

I've ever seen on message boards. Did you ever read the one with the guy who's the undefeated prison fighter? No. Oh, my God. I believe his name is Christian Darrow. And he went to jail. Super thick white dude? Yeah, he was a big, big, yoked up white dude with a lot of tattoos.

He's on the prison documentaries. Yeah, he was a big, big, yoked-up white dude with a lot of tattoos. Yeah, and he wound up having a fight with this... Fuck, what is his name? God damn it. I gotta look up this guy's name. The kid who fought him. Because the kid who fought him had some skills. And just beat the shit out of this guy.

But it was weird watching it. It was like, is this guy even trained? And he might not even have ever trained he might just be a crazy guy who lied and he talked himself into being the toughest man into having an MMA fight when he really had no fucking business doing fight in prison James Fennaro that's his name no no they fought in a gym there's a video of it there's a video of it there's a video of it online I don't even need to shit on the dude

but but sorry you suck sorry yeah come on now I don't even know how we got onto this subject I'm not sure cause I totally forgot

oh epic threads so that's how I found out about this thread was from the underground there's did you ever read the girl tried to lick my pooper Jesus Christ, that thread is like

a billion fucking pages long. It's six months old of it or whatever. It's crazy. There's some threads that I have like subscribed that I'll check in on every couple of months.

You know, like they have a podcast thread and you know, every now and then I'll jump in. They have a thread about the podcast. I'll jump in and say hi.

Yeah. Those are your people. Yeah. They're nice people. Look, the amount of cunts in the world is is pretty high i love that word and when people are free to be whoever they are anonymously you're gonna get a lot of cunts because that's the the root of all animosity is cunty behavior i got trolled in brazil and i would just lost it on some guy cause he was just, he just, there's only one word he said,

but it just pissed me off. It's constant, but it's, you know what it is? They're just trying to have fun a lot of times by just getting a rise out of you. You got to realize that. And,

but it's also just, it's not a natural way to communicate to not be in front of someone. Like there's a lot of things that you'd say in email that you would never say in front. Like that's why people say, I don't want to talk to you. I'm just going to write you a letter and show you how you feel. Bitch, stop it with your fucking letter. Don't make me read.

Don't be a pussy. Just look at me and tell me what's going on. Like, you tell me what's the problem and let's talk this out. Because that's the best way to communicate is looking at each other. Yeah. Looking at each other and actually saying what's on your mind. You can't let things, like, build up. Yes.

Because you're going to explode and end up doing something stupid. Yeah, and things can swing left or right, good or bad, depending on how you react to a moment while you're in front of someone. A lot of times you'd apologize. You'd go, look, I shouldn't have said that.

I didn't mean it that way. Or, look, this is where I'm coming from. You do that when you're looking at each other. but you write it down on an email you could just be completely self-indulgent and just filled with nonsense and you think just because someone wrote it down like it makes it really you know respect feelings and this now blah blah blah shut up you fucking you verbose you just don't have the balls to say it to my face. Clickety, clickety, clack, clickety, click. Stop it. Talk, stupid.

Text messages. You broke up with me over text messages. Well, that's horrible, but if you are in a nightmare relationship, it's probably a good move. That's true. Like, why be around them any more than you have to? Just go, just pull cord. Hey, you know, I've been thinking.

I got to go. And you're kind of crazy Yeah, unfortunately we've all run into crazy people And they've all run into us So there you go I attracted crazy for 99% of my life Of course you did, my friend You're old school, man

People don't fucking understand that You're talking about Chris Brennan and Jeremy Williams And that's next generation, right? All those guys Old school man. People don't fucking understand that. You were talking about Chris Brennan and Jeremy Williams and Next Generation, right? All those guys. Old school. I started like, oh, Roy McDonald started training MMA. I'm like, so did I. That's what I started doing. Chris Brennan,

man, he was like an early pioneer jujitsu guy. He was like one of the first guys around LA to get really fucking good. He was sick. Kimuras were nasty. He had a gang of setups, too. Yeah, a bunch of it. And that's what I took from him.

That was most of my game. Yeah, he's a tough dude, man. Really good jiu-jitsu. A lot of people slept on his jiu-jitsu. And then he went over to Japan, but it was almost like on the tail end of his competing, you know, when he was over in Japan. Yeah, he wasn't able to really showcase how good he really was.

Didn't he have a bunch of epic fights with Pat Militech? I know, I mean... Didn't they have two fights? Did they have two fights? They fought in... Was it UFC? I remember he slept Joe Stevenson in UFC when Joe was like 16. Oh, yeah. And he held on to the in UFC when Joe was like 16. Oh, yeah. And he held on to the triangle for too long like a dick. He was the only guy to knock out Antonio McKee, too. I was there. That was bad.

That was a nasty kick. Nasty kick. Chris Bannon was a bad motherfucker. Yeah. He's doing jujitsu in Dallas now, right? Yeah, exactly. He's living out in Dallas. He just wanted to change the scenery, so he took off.

Good for him, man. That was a long time ago. I? Yeah, exactly. He's living out in Dallas. He just wanted to change the scenery, so he took off. Good for him, man. I love Francis, too. That's the beautiful thing about having a reputation, having a name in the martial arts world like he does. You can just start up

a place, places, and people will be like, hey, fucking Chris Brand just moved into town. And that guy's a businessman. I mean, he is a very, very smart businessman. Good jiu-jitsu guy.

His nasty fucking ears, though. Get that shit fixed, son. He's got some crazy Waleed Ishmael type ears. He knows he's not the most attractive man in the world, but if you see his wife, she's a beautiful creature. I'm sure. He's a tough dude. I like that guy too. He's a nice guy. He was training with Gerald Streben, who's a buddy of mine. Yeah, I know Gerald. You know Gerald. Yeah, you know a lot of dudes buckrear and and just old school people man how did you start fighting um i liked fist fighting i mean that was me and my boys thing in high school like we all we wanted to fist fight and it wasn't like and we you know we were in this stupid little

gang that the cops called us a gang but we were just a bunch of rich white kids who liked to fist fight and i mean we're talking out of my friends let's say say 20 of us, 18 of us trained, and 10 of us had pro fights. We're talking myself, Shane Del Rosario, Robert Emerson, Josh Smith, Nick Ferrario. You guys all went out looking for fights? Justin Levins, Sid. Imagine we pulled to parties and just push over a lantern. I would because I was the smallest one. Or I'd go hit on someone's girlfriend or go steal CDs or something. And then some big

jock would be like, what's up? And then of course I'm not the guy to hide. I want to jump in front and talk some shit like, Hey, yeah. And then they just kind of see everybody behind me and kind of go, Hmm, like, uh, no. Okay. And then all of a sudden I'm getting Why would you want to be that guy? I was, I don't know. I had something to prove. I was tiny. And I liked fist fighting. It wasn't like I wanted to, you know, rob somebody. So you weren't even thinking

that you were, like, disturbing people's private lives and interfering with their happiness? No, no, I understood that. I was a dick when I was a kid. I was a horrible child. I literally was. I spent most of my life

being a horrible person doing a horrible thing. What made you realize that you were? That I was a bad person? Yeah. 20-some-od odd years of doing bad stuff and then just trying to pull out of it, constantly falling back into it,

trying to pull out of it, falling back into it, and now I have a kid and now I have, for once in my life, I have a positive female influence as far as dating goes. I mean, it helps me.

I've literally done everything possible i think i'm a fucking psychopath would want to do but i've done just about everything you know i can't really think of besides um you know having a man enter me i haven't i've done that he's young yeah you know but it's i'm just saying it and i know, now I've got a kid and a career, and I'm just trying to settle down and be a good boy. Yeah, it's kind of a wild past for a dude who's like a top-level professional athlete. You know, people listening to this on the podcast, you know, without getting to know you better, I'm like, who the fuck is this guy? He's one of the best flyweights on the planet.

I'm the best. Look, without a doubt. I just got to prove it. Look, dudes may, on any given night, in the world of high-level mixed martial arts, anybody can beat anybody. And I thought you beat DJ in the first fight. And then you guys, well, this is, I think,

and correct me if you disagree, I think that there has to be an element of the fight where when one person is doing something really dominant to the other person, that's got to count for more. When a guy's got his back and you're pounding on him, that's got to count for more than just winning a round barely. If a guy wins a round with strikes and three more With ten more strikes or five more strikes. Yeah, like three more strikes. Or the next guy gets into a really good position and does significant damage.

That's not – it's not the same point. It's a different – it doesn't make sense to me the way things are now. I think that – do you know Doc Hamilton's idea? Oh, yeah. Do you like that idea? It's a half point idea. Yeah, I like the half point idea actually. It makes – I mean it just, it sounds nice,

but we have people that have no business judging, judging fights. And then, like, literally, let's say, if I would have won that fight, I wouldn't have gone into some just horrible spiral out of control for the next year of my UFC career, right after, my very first fight, you know, back to just being stupid and doing horrible things to myself. Do you think you would have done that?

No, no, that's what I did. Oh, you did after? Yes. That's why DJ kicked my ass the second time. That's why Joe, I didn't do anything to Joe when I could have, I mean, I should have done a lot better. Both guys said I could have finished him. I had just a mental bad marriage. That's all it was.

I don't want to get into it. Right, right, right. You were just in a bad place in your mind. It was a really bad place and I wasn't performing. We are all top level athletes but I know I'm better than these guys. It's just they were better that night. They're better performers at this point in time mentally.

That's what it comes down to is the mental aspect. I'll get back. Now I'm happy. Now I'm finally in a good place. I think against Joe I was getting there but I wasn't quite there yet. Physically I'll always back. Now I'm happy. You know, I'm finally in a good place. I think against Joe, I was getting there, but I wasn't quite there yet. I mean, physically I'll always be there, you know, but it's just for me mentally, even in this last fight, um, I did great, you know, but I think I'm, I still have steps to get back to where I know I can be like when I became world champion, it was just, it just, it was just better. You know, I was just training

harder and longer and faster and everything. I mean, now I'm technically better, it just, it was just better. You know, I was just training harder and longer and faster and everything. I mean, now I'm technically better, I think, but it's just getting my head there is, is still, it's still a process, but I'm, I'm, I'm almost there, I guess. So you, you feel like you're a work in progress? Of course. Always. Always. Yeah. Do you feel like, uh, all this shit that's happened to you, all this craziness in your

life, the mistakes that you've made, like in some ways, surviving as many mistakes as you have like really creates a very fascinating person. Because the type of person who has as many experiences as you, it's a magnetic thing to be around. Because most people haven't had as many crazy, fucked up life experiences. And have been professional cage fighters at the same time. Now I'm trying to now becoming a better person for once i'm trying to be that better person i'm trying to uh just show people like this is what this is what i've done i'm a walking example of what not to do right because most likely you're not going to get back to where i am you know almost likely you're either going to become just a normal human being or you're going to die you know like right you'll either calm human being or you're going to die. You know, like I was either calm down or you're going to die.

Yeah. And you figure it out on your own or you're on a bad path. Yeah. And I think that for some reason I'm, I'm able to, I've been able to do, to do that and make, get back to greatness and try and do something that no one really ever gets to do. And that's fighting the octagon. You know, there's very few percentage of people in the world that actually will ever be able to do this. Yeah. Especially at your weight class, man.

Yeah. That's a really fucking technical weight class. DJ, he keeps getting better too. Every time he fights, man. His last fight with Moraga was incredible. Yeah. He's so good at like changing where the fight takes place. Yeah. Whether it's taking you down, kicking you when you think he's going to punch

you, punch you when you think he's going to kick you. He's, he is ever evolving. I make fun of him a lot. I do. You can't help it. Because yeah, he, yeah, exactly. I got to, I got to chip my shoulder cause I thought I beat him and then he beat me up. And plus I think he's a nerd, but, um, but he's just such a nice guy. Is there something wrong with being a nerd? No, nothing wrong with being nerd. I just can't make fun of him because he beat me up on time Right, just let me do that But no, he's T the guy is he's at first People gave him so much guff because he just wasn't performing but now he's getting better

He's getting the point where he did the strides He's making are making it actually exciting and the adoring public is actually not being such douchebags They're learning the sport and realizing that that's that's art right there. Yeah, no, he's he's making are making it actually exciting. And the adoring public is actually not being such douchebags. They're learning the sport and realizing that. That's art right there. Yeah. You know, he's painting a fucking masterpiece. You know, especially compared to these big guys. Not to say anything against big guys, but we're doing a lot more than they are.

Yeah, well, it's definitely a different game. The pace is faster. It's more technical. There's very little room for error. Yeah. You know, like he caught Moraga in that guillotine. There pace is faster. It's more technical. There's very little room for error. He caught Moraga in that guillotine. There was no room. It's just like, just snatched it up. It's really kind of an interesting difference between watching the smallest weight class and watching the largest weight class. The room for error. It's incredible. The gap becomes a lot bigger. Oh my God. I mean, the room for error.

It's incredible. The gap becomes a lot bigger. Oh, my God. I mean, we've never seen a heavyweight that moves like a flyweight. It doesn't exist. It's not possible. It doesn't exist. It's a completely different experience

watching the lighter weight classes. It's like you guys are like hummingbirds. You're moving at such a faster pace. It's... I mean, even just to fight at that pace, I mean, you've got to be on point. Because if you're one step behind, I mean, it's just a constant bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. Well, DJ got caught by Moraga big time in that fourth round.

It's a perfect example of that. I mean, DJ was not getting hit by anything. He was just moving like a ghost. He was in and out. And when you thought he was coming in, he was coming out. I mean, it was a beautiful performance. And then, boom. Moraga hits hard. He hits hard. He was in and out. And when you thought he was coming in, he was coming out. I mean, it was a beautiful performance. And then, boom. Moraga hits hard.

He hits hard. He hits hard. But even the point is, like, any time it can come. Yeah. Any time a big one can clip you. Yeah. That's the craziest thing about the sport, isn't it? Yeah.

There's really nothing like that. It's so rare in boxing for things to turn around out of nowhere with one shot. It doesn't happen that often. Like, later, you know, in a fight, when you see it in MMA, that it can happen at any moment with those little gloves. Yeah, it just slips right through. That's what people really don't get is that defense, even having, your defense has to be perfect.

Yeah. Because those little gloves fit through the smallest holes, and they make those holes bigger. It's not just like a boxing glove where it's a blunt object. It's just going to expand on impact. Yeah, there's much less give. They slide through things,

especially when they get all greased up, sweated up. Like the Todd Duffy-Mike Russell fight is a fight that I always point to. If you never saw that fight, if you've never seen that fight, it's a historical MMA fight. They play that for young fighters.

They go, this is what can happen. This guy, motherfucker, looks like Superman. Three rounds, wasn't it? Yeah, three rounds of horrific beating. Broke his arm. Russell had a broken arm. And then with no hint whatsoever that it was going to take place before this. It wasn't like he had tagged him a couple of times. It looked like he had him

staggered a few times, like he's coming back. He's getting just destroyed. And plus, Duffy is a physical specimen. That guy's huge. And Mike, not so much. Mike looks like what he is. He's a Chicago cop.

He's a tough fucking guy, no doubt about it. Super tough fucking guy. But that punch was one of the quickest turns. It's a Chicago cop. He's a tough fucking guy, no doubt about it. Super tough fucking guy. But that punch was one of the quickest turns. It was out of nowhere. It turned the whole fighter out. Bang, he had him hurt and boom, he was out. What the hell? How is that even possible? It's nuts.

Especially at that weight. When you have two guys that are 250 pounds hitting each other that hard. I mean, that is frightening. Terrifying. And I see with a heavyweight, you know, my roommate, Shandell Rosario, to see him move. And he's fast.

He's very fast for a heavyweight. And he hasn't been able to really show how good he really is. But, man, that guy can move. And it scares the crap out of me. He can hold pads for me. That's how fast he is Wow, and I mean I I'll go for you know 30 minutes straight Yeah, he moves really well And he's set that weight of heavyweight where there's like a point of diminishing returns a lot of people believe there's an argument about it

Of course and that argument is about like 240 that 240. Anything bigger than Cain Velasquez, you get tired too easily. Yeah, exactly. But then for a while there, people thought it was like when Brock Lesnar first burst on the scene, people were like, oh shit, you gotta get way bigger, man.

That's when Frank Miller got way bigger. Shane Carwin got way bigger. Those dudes got way bigger. They're like, fuck that dude. If that's your game if your game is you know tuck your face in between your shoulders and plow forward if that's your game man you better be built like that guy shine just hulk smash people yeah it's i don't know man it doesn't work out so well yeah well it's when you watch a fight like carwin versus

lester which is an all-time classic fight but But you see how quick Carwin gases out, like to the point where he's dead. Within one round? Within one round. It's like you can't – well, first, I think he said it was also that he was so fired up, so much adrenaline. He couldn't believe – he thought he was winning. He thought the fight was over. He thought he was going to win the fight right there. And he was beating on him for a long time.

So, I mean, that's going to take not just 10 seconds if I thought I won. It was a couple minutes if I thought I won. And it was sprinting. I mean, it was two minutes of sprinting. And literally after it was over, Brock survived and he was done. Like he couldn't even get up out of his stool. It was like his whole body like completely shut down. It's crazy to watch.

But you watch a body like that, that's when you go, okay, how big is too big? Because that might be too big. Someone's got to figure this out scientifically. Yeah, we've got to figure it out. I don't know anything about CrossFit, but my roommate, he runs RV Sport for Ruka, and he went to go sponsor some guys and talk to some people and watch it. I always thought CrossFit guys were douchebags. I don't know.

I just always hear them yelling and screaming. He's like, no, dude, they're really positive. They're cool guys. And apparently like the perfect weight for them is like 185, 200 pounds for what they do. And that's – which is – I don't even really know what they do. Stupid weights, man. Those guys do stupid weights. I mean I don't say stupid like dumb.

I mean like incredible. Like really heavy. Like holy shit. I've seen this little guy who's like 165 pounds and he was doing cleans with, I think it was cleans with a 120-pound kettlebell. He was not a big guy. He was doing this clean press over and over again with this. It was more than a 100-pound kettlebell. It was ridiculous, whatever the fuck it was.

And he was doing it for reps. I was like, this is incredible. We have multiple stones. We have a 125-pound stone at my strength conditioning place. God damn. Roll it up on my legs. I can pop, pop, but it's just a stone. I think that's where I get my suplexes from.

I would think it probably would help you a lot, man. I can get up to 250, 240. I can get that up and do it maybe five times. It's getting it up onto your lap is the hardest part. I can explode probably 400 pounds off my hips. As a professional athlete, isn't it fascinating to see, like, how much things have changed as far as, like, the way they train athletes? The ideas behind it.

If you go back, like, if you're a student of the game and you go back just, like, 20, 30 years, like, they used to, like, Angelo Dundee used to tell fighters to not lift weights. Yeah. They used to tell them not to lift weights. It was going to slow you down. Yeah. It's hilarious.

They just didn't know. They didn't understand. They didn't know. Well, it does slow you down in that if you lift weights and you're sore, the next day you're going to be slower. And then the coach is like, ah, it's slowing you down. But then Mackie Shillstone comes along and trains Evander Holyfield to go up to heavyweight.

And all of a sudden, he's like a real heavyweight. He was like 205 or something like that. Like not too big. No, but he was big enough. But got swole. He got fucking swole. He was jacked. Oh my God, was he jacked.

And he was what, 40? Holyfield? How old was he when he went up to heavyweight? He started out as a cruiserweight, right? Because he fought Dwight Cowie. That was like a 195, right? That's cruiserweight. And then when he went up to heavyweight,

was it Mackie Shulston worked with him? It did, right? Because he worked with Spinks, right? Yeah. He worked with Michael Spinks when he was bulking Spinks up to be a heavyweight to fight Tyson and Larry Holmes. That was when he burst into the scene.

He was like one of those first guys that they were realizing back in the day, like, we've got to do things a little different here. We can't just do curls. Marinovich. Yes. I mean, that guy's in San Clemente, and I've never had a run-in with him, but all my friends have and all my coaches have. Apparently, he's just very set in his ways, I guess we'll say. But, I mean, he was an originator of so much crazy stuff. I mean, look at his son.

I mean, that didn't turn out like it should have. Well, his son was under a tremendous... For people who don't know the whole story, I don't know his son's name because I'm not a football fan. What is his son's name? Todd? Todd Marinovich? Todd Marinovich. There's a good documentary on it.

And Marinovich is like a crazy strength and fitness guy. He's the guy who got BJ Penn in the best shape of his life. When BJ Penn fought Diego Sanchez and when he fought Sean Penn, I think those are the two times, Sean Penn. Sean Shirk. Jesus Christ. Right after I said it, I'm like, yeah, that's right. What?

He fought Sean Shirk and he fought Diego and I think that BJ was like one of the best fighters I've ever seen in my life. That's my elite BJ. That's my, the guy I've always looked up to the most because that was, he was old school and people feel he made Joe Stevens and cry.

He beat a man up so bad that he was crying in the fucking corner. BJ Penn was a motherfucker, man, for a long time. That's the kind of fighter I want to, I want to get myself to. Because people need to fear people. You know, I want to be fucking feared.

Because then people, you know, you beat them up and they cry in the corner. That makes me feel great. Well, I mean, look, that's the path you're on. You're on the path to excellence. And people fear the scariest, most excellent fighters. I mean, there's no really disguising what the sport's about. Exactly. The sport's about victory.

It's about beating the other man. It's about imposing your martial arts skills. And you really can't get great at that and not be scary as fuck. It's part of the program. Well, exactly. It brings out the most primal urges in us that, you know, I want to kill something and eat it with my bare hands. I want to, like, you know, I want to just be the king stink.

I want to be the head monkey. I want to be able to do that. Do you think you have that extra bad from growing up small? Oh, yeah, because I always wanted to prove myself. My parents, especially my mom, I think my dad really cared because he always knew I could do it. My mom wanted to show everybody else that I do every single sport and you're good at it. Oh, wow.

Because I was good at everything. How much did you weigh when you were in high school? I wrestled 103, 103, 112, and 119, but I got into high school at 100 pounds. Wow. But then again, I had been doing Kung Fu Sansu my whole life. I had a black belt in that, which you don't compete. I learned how to, and I was the,

Bill Egan was my sifu. He he was he just i was his protege and he's like i'm gonna teach you things that i'm i don't teach other kids okay you have this red zone around you okay if they would get in within arm's length of you they're a problem you need to hit them and i got you know in a threatening manner and i got you know i would punch kids in the throat elbows you know, in a threatening manner. And I got, you know, I would punch kids in the throat, elbows. You know, I learned armbar kind of stuff back then. Kick, jump kids, you know, in the face, the groin. Like, I got kicked out of all the best private schools. So it was always people fucking with you and you defending yourself against assholes? Or was you being an asshole sometimes?

A lot of the time, it started out as me wanting to beat up the bullies. That's how it turned into me being like, you know what? Fuck those guys. I want to beat up every bully I see. And I did it. I got kicked out of my high school one year for beating up some cholo for picking on my friend's mentally handicapped cousin. Down syndrome. And I beat the shit out of the kid.

What kind of a world is it where you get in trouble for that? What happened was I beat him up and then I felt someone grab me. So, of course, I thought it was out of the kid. What kind of a world is it where you get in trouble for that? What happened was I beat him up, and then I felt someone grab me. So, of course, I thought it was one of his friends. And I turned around and swept the person on the ground, and it was one of the female proctors. And I ran away. Oh, you swept her. Oh, Jesus.

Karate kid style? Sweep the leg? Yeah. I just turned around. She grabbed me from one side, and I put my arm out on the chest and just swept the leg and that's so dangerous to grab someone in The middle of a fight and she probably wouldn't even think that because it's probably not a violent person Yeah, she was super nice She just I I had to be pulled out of school my coach pulled me out of school three out of the four years from

freshmen sophomore junior year because After wrestling season I would just So you needed the the discipline of wrestling to keep you in check? Oh yeah. That's the only... I owe my life to a small group of people in Resa, Betty, my old wrestling coach is one of them. That guy saved me. Yeah, isn't it...

It's an amazing thing how many people have been saved by the diversity that comes from something like that. Whether it's boxing, or MMA, or wrestling, or jiu-jitsu. For me, it was taekwondo. I needed something. I needed some form of discipline.

Something that I can enjoy and I can attack it and I can get really good at it. And it gives me a calmness. Because most boys, people who are not boys don't remember it, I guess, when they get older. Or they forget because they have problems of their own. They don't want to deal with it. When you're like 15, 16 years old, you're fucking crazy.

Your body's bouncing around. Hormones are flying through your system. Your dick is a murderer. Your dick is just hard all the time. And you're crazy. And you're basically almost a man. And you're like thinking, I'm kind of fucking almost a man. And I was out beating up guys that were in college.

So bad. So I was, you know, I thought I was fucking super cool. I was out stealing my dad's Supras, which we built. You know, he had a built Supra or a quarter of the cars. And I would steal those. And he knows, so whatever. You know, I was living in South Orange County. And just getting away with whatever I wanted.

My parents, I was too fast for them. And they were going through their own stuff. So, of course, I just was off on my own just being crazy. And I started smoking weed when I was like eight years old. That's a good time to start. It's not six. Eight sounded good. And it wasn't like it was a bad influence.

It just happened. That's crazy. Yeah. Eight years old, you're smoking weed. God damn, that's so crazy. I'd go to school and kids would be like, oh, my God, my dad let me have a sip of beer. And I was like, I drank a 40 and took four-foot bong rips the other weekend. Oh, my God.

How old were you? You know, going through, like, middle school or whatever. And kids just, I mean, didn't understand. I mean, I'd be at private school. And I wouldn't, I never, you know, I was always you don't talk about stuff like that, especially if you don't want to get in trouble. So of course I always kept my mouth shut.

But, you know, I was a degenerate at a young age. It was just in me to just, I wanted to be the bad guy. I wanted to have that fun. Where do you think that came from? When you think about it now, when you're trying to be a calm guy and you have a kid and your career's on track, when you reflect back to your wildest shit, what makes you think?

I had a great upbringing. Really? That's hilarious. I did this all to myself. My parents are awesome people. Sure, they went through a divorce, but that doesn't turn someone into me. Let me stop you right there, because I think it's really difficult to understand or underestimate the negative impact that being bullied can have on a person. Yeah.

It's huge. And people say that it's not like being molested or abused. And I say bullshit. I say it's probably pretty close to a lot of guys. I mean it might not be the physical humiliation of someone forcing you to have sex, but the physical intimidation aspect of it is terrifying, and it changes

your perception of reality when you're around that person. There's constant danger. You're going to get swatted. You're going to get pushed. You're going to get compromised. It's a terrible, terrible thing. And it can fuck with people, and it can turn people into depressed people who want to kill themselves because of that. Because they can't

take the pain anymore. And people don't realize it when they're doing it, I don't think. I think they're probably bullied at home or someone bullied them and they're insecure or they're beaten or whatever the fuck it is. Or they go to school and they just cunt out on some little kid. But man, I've seen it have devastating impacts

on people. Yeah, exactly. You seen it have devastating impacts on people. I mean, yeah, exactly. I mean, you see it in high school and what I always did in high school was I would pick on the bullies

or pick on the cool kids because, because, you know, the class president types, I would just like, I just like talking shit too. It was just,

it was fun. Yeah, I always had a big mouth. I got pretty lucky with not getting the fuck beaten out of me in high school. Yeah, well see,

the only time I ever got really beat up, I think in street fights was because I was, I picked my battles. I know, you know, I know I can beat that guy up. I'm small, you know,

but like I, I would always try and test it, but I got, you know, we used to go as groups, me and my friends, we would go beat up a bunch of skinheads in the next neighboring town, like all the time.

Right. I got booted, you know, booted by those guys twice at del taco and went to the house party but you know it's you get beat up i get beat up on national tv now and it's not that bad but i mean when you're getting beat up i mean especially as a kid getting beat up by by a bully by someone in front of other people and that like humiliating it's it's horrible and that's why i would always try and stick up for the kids getting getting bullied and it's also at a time in your life when you're the most vulnerable it's really hard for you to

really understand what's going on in life and you know people make a lot of terrible mistakes at those young ages and i think one of them is actually being a bully yeah you know i mean i think that that that kind of karma like pushing out in that direction you're a 10 year old asshole yeah i want to punch you in the face yeah i i started getting into martial arts just because i was scared i just wanted people to be scared of me i don't want to i didn't want to do anything like i wasn't i didn't want to start fights i just wanted everybody to be scared of me i wanted to be wolverine you got the look yes yeah it's um it's a weird thing, but the interesting aspect of it is that I'm a huge MMA fan, and I don't think you have MMA if you don't have bullies.

True. It's really kind of fucked up, but one of the things, I mean, it's not everybody, but goddamn, a lot of them have been bullied. I don't know if Jon Jones has been bullied, but I do know that Jon Jones has a bigger brother, and they used to go at it in the house all the time. So it's not bullied because it's not dangerous I mean it's like your brother but it's still like you got to fight all the time oh my brother used to beat the crap out of me my oldest brother Tom he was kind of a dick he was he was he was a bully but he's you know he's like 15 years

older than me my brother Brad who fought professionally before there was anything you know like I told you he fought in the fan and stuff and he was five and oh or five and one or six and one you said we trained a tenth planet no yeah yeah I trained with Eddie at 10th and you before there was anything. Like I told you, he fought in the fan and stuff. And he was 5-0, or 5-1, or 6-1. You said we trained at 10th Planet? Yeah, I trained with Eddie at 10th and you at 10th.

But we were at Next Generation and when we would get mad at each other, I mean, we'd be at the gym. And I'm sure he'd never probably really let me have it, but he used to beat

the crap out of me. And I was 15 getting beat up by grown men, by the Chris Brennans and the Adam Linds and my brother and Jeremy.

It sucked, man. That fucking sucks. Yeah, it was horrible. But it made me the fighter I am now. Yeah, but that's almost, I mean, I'm not encouraging bullies in any stretch

of the imagination, but George St. Pierre was bullied. The greatest fighter of all time. He's one of the all-time greats. I don't know about

Anderson Silva, but I would like to know. I wonder whether he was bullied. I mean, he for sure was in a dangerous area growing up.

It seems like those days, it's funny just watching those old fights and those shoot-the-box guys would all come in

like a gang. Yeah. They were the wildest motherfuckers. I mean, fighting in backyards, going from grass to concrete to stucco walls.

Just wearing tiny Speedos. Like when you go, like you look at the early days of Pride and you see like Vanderlei and Shogun and Ninja. Like, God damn, they were the scariest motherfuckers. Wild ass Brazilian dudes. Trying to step on your face. Oh, yeah. Like, trying to just... And there's not a drug test to be had, son. They were pretty open about it back then.

I mean, I've heard things from, you know, people who were there. They were like, hey, like, guys, guess what? Like, we don't test for steroids. Yeah. Well, they tell you to get on them, too. I had a friend who, he was 170, and they wanted him to go to 185. We give you a stud hoods. Give you a stud hoods.

They were just ready to go. They were just going gangster. In a lot of ways, I was really happy that Pride existed and that it was as wild as it was. Because they put together shit that no one would ever sanction. Like Minotauro versus Bob Sapp. When Bob Sapp was 370 plus like people don't realize that that's real he was 370 fucking pounds hong man choy like bringing these just these oddities out yeah just like what that was the big fat black guy from brazil um

zuluino or whatever yes i mean and he could he could fight but he was just they just see these well he was zulu's son yeah they fight, but he was just, they just see these. Well, he was Zulu's son. Yeah. They, they, they see the Japanese see things differently. They just see entertainment,

you know, they see a black guy and they're like, Oh, he's gotta be entertaining. That's why he's here. You know, like you get Quentin, like they love him over there.

Well, Quentin also had some sensational fights, man. I'm just saying they, they, they just, the Japanese, they have the niche that they like and they just

make it the weirdest, craziest shit they can. Yeah, anybody who complains about Quentin Rampage Jackson, you are not an MMA fan. If you complain about Rampage,

I don't care where he's at now, I don't care, whatever, stop. Go back and watch those pride fights

and shut the fuck up. He was a badass. His fight with Kevin Randleman, incredible fight. His fight with Arona is one of the highlight all-time slams in the history of MMA. That's when he was with my coach, Oyama. Ah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, Rampage was a beast, man. Oyama had him throwing more leg kicks. He had him doing a lot of different things than he's doing. He became like a real power puncher after a while. You know, look, Rampage can still knock out anyone in the world. If he catches anyone in the world, they're fucks. He's going to sleep. He has hammers.

That right hook that he hit Chuck Liddell with, I'll never forget that punch. He ducked away. I think Chuck threw a left, and he came over the top of the right. Whatever it was. I think Chuck was pawing with his jab maybe. He was trying to set up the right, whatever it was. I think Chuck was pawing with his jab maybe. He was trying to set up the right, whatever it was. Rampage hit him with either, I think it was a counter right hook.

I know they were circling. I can see the camera view now. God, I barely remember. Chuck's one of my best friends, so that's ingrained in my brain. I think they're circling left, and then, of course, you know, something. He threw that right hook and just boom. That was Rampage had that ridiculous one-punch power. That Vanderlei fight's another example.

God damn, he uncorked that left hook on the button. You're going 9-9. You know, nobody had ever done it. I mean, Crow Cop, he hit him a gang of times before he flatlined him. He was lighting Vanderlei up in that fight. Because the first time they fought, it was an incredible fight. But Krokop just really wasn't good on the ground yet. His takedown defense wasn't there.

Very little. Very little. And they had a strange rules fight where it was like you could only stay on the ground for a little bit of time. It was like a minute or something. It was a short period. Some short period. So Krokop would just lock him up in a guard and try to hang on. I don't know what rules they had.

It was a weird rule thing. It was pride. They did it. But then in the second fight, Cro Cop had had a few MMA fights, and he got his timing down. And that was when Cro Cop was Cro Cop, man. He was dangerous. God. That was a scary man.

I mean, he had, again, one of the scariest tools to ever exist in MMA that he knocked out multiple people with. And the thing about Krokop is I feel like UFC fans, again, don't appreciate the majesty that was Krokop in his prime. We got him after a long career, a hard career against Fedor and against Josh Barnett. I mean, he fought some fucking battles. So by the time we got him in the UFC, he had been in quite a few real, real wars. And think of all the heavyweight kickboxing fights he had. Yeah, exactly.

He fought a lot of K-1 fights against the top guys. High-level, high-level guys. That Mark Hunt fight is a classic one, man. Classic. They had some wars in K-1, man. I mean, he was in the mix with some wars in K-1, man. People had, I mean, he was in the mix with some of the best fighters in the world over there. Yeah, you got, you know, you got the Bonjowski and the small Alistair, Peter Ayeritz, you know, the Tyrone Spongs. Like, the Dutch group of kickboxers, the heavyweights are, I mean, and these guys have like 100 heavyweight fights, 200 heavyweight fights.

I mean, this is insane. I mean, someone my size, okay, you have 200 Thai fights in Thailand. It's still pretty gnarly. It's more than gnarly. It's crazy. But, I mean, double the size and almost the same amount of fights. I mean, that's just, that's completely insane. Yeah, it's incredible.

I mean, dude had 29 kickboxing fights. On record. On record. On record. And then 41 MMA fights. God damn. Yeah. Yeah. He had some great fucking K-1 fights too, man. Really fun. See, he was one of the best guys to come over, even though he wasn't one of the best K-1 guys. He was like just below the elite of the elite elite like it wasn't just below like the Grand Prix winner yeah exactly before he did win a Grand Prix recently yeah right it was in the was the European one or something yeah something like that I'll find out

and give him the credit he deserves but when he when he came over he was he had the one thing that a lot of people didn't have Ridiculous speed and explosion and he had like I think he had a karate background, right? I think that's correct. I think when he first started he started like I'm sure that was a long He's like John Claude Van Damme movies or something like that and learn how to kick that way and then got it something crazy like that I believe I believe that that's like how it got started I think he like it was a Jean-Claude Van Damme fan and then got into karate from that. But his fucking kicks are so unusual.

The angle, the speed. The speed is ridiculous. I mean, he's got horse legs. Those things are huge. So, of course, those kicking you in the face is going to not feel good. And he, again, I mean, it was like he had that weight. It was like, you know,

230-ish, 228. Yeah, 228 is what he, like the average that he weighed when he was in his prime. And it was just scary fast. When he knocked out Bob Sapp, Bob Sapp was 3 fucking 70. And Merkle Crowe Cobb, no, he right-handed

him, or left-handed him, a straight left to the eye socket, remember? Oh, he broke his eye, okay, and then he, yeah. Yeah, he broke his eye socket. I think he kicked him before that. Okay. I remember a kick to the body that Bob Sapp did. See if you can find that. See if you can find Cro Cop versus Bob Sapp, because that was one of Cro Cop's best fights, and it was a kickboxing fight, too.

too. That was back when this was a guy, Bob Sapp, who had beaten Ernesto Hoost, who most people think was the greatest ever or one of the top ten guys ever for sure. I shouldn't say the greatest ever. Even Dutch guys say it, but it's kind of between him when he's in his prime or like

Rob Kamen or of course Ramon Deckers. Deckers gets the most credit because he fought the lightest guys. I read that. Ramon Deckers is oneers gets the most credit because he fought the lightest guys. Yeah, exactly. Ramon Deckers is one of my idols. Look at this shit, dude. This is Bob Sapp versus Mirko Krokop. Mirko is literally almost 200 pounds lighter than him.

He's actually 100. He's probably, no bullshit, 150 pounds lighter than him. Easily. Which is incredible. And, I mean, 150 pounds lighter than him. Easily. Which is incredible. And I mean, he just sucks, man. And he's chasing Crow Cop around and he gets a hold of him. And he's trying to rabbit punch him. He's trying to dirty box him. He just wants to club you to death.

He's that big. He just has to lay one on you and you're done. But Mirko was strong enough and fast enough to keep him off. Which is the difference between his style and Ernesto Hoos. Ernesto Hoos is the better kickboxer technically than Mirko. What makes Mirko so dangerous in MMA is that he's explosive.

And it'll dart in and blast you. He'll take a chance and do something wild where a guy like... Some ridiculous shit. Not just a feeler. He will go after you. I forgot he got ball clipped. He got ball clipped, it looks like.

Something happened there. Very rarely do you get pokes in Pride, too. That's another interesting thing. This is actually a kickboxing battle. The gloves have those fat fingers on. Yeah, fat fingers, and apparently the way it's designed, it makes you curl your hand more, keep it curled, whereas the UFC ones...

Do you feel that the ufc ones make your hands straighten out i never thought about it i'll have to check that out next time well they say that the pride ones were like curved they had like a curve yeah actually yeah they were actually bent curve where the ufc ones are straight yeah and as you especially as a fight goes on you've relaxed your hands maybe a little bit like that would be a time where the pride one would be better because it would keep them kind of curved that makes sense oh so he hit him with a body shot there back that up i'm talking too much people who are listening to this and watching this are getting two totally different experiences because uh i don't even know who has the uh see there's the body shot boom left kick to the body

and straight left to the face marco crocop was a fucking savage back then, man. He was one of the most dangerous guys as far as sniper strikers. Yeah. And then came into MMA and fought in Pride. Holy shit, those were some great fights. His knockouts in Pride are some of the all-time greatest highlight reel head kick knockouts. It's the same thing. Yeah, Igor Vovchanshkin, boom! Alexander Millian Ankle, boom!

Just blasting dudes with that head kick. That Russian dude, Dos Karos, he came in with the Luta Libre mask on, head kick, boom! He was training with Marco Huas for that fight, and I remember thinking, like, dude, this guy's gonna die. Because, you know, Marco was in our area, and I had some friends that trained over there,

and I remember just, like, I would stop in there every once in a while, and I was just like, man, guy might might actually die in this one yeah he was amazing man merco when he at that level that's like when he was at his very best it was either before he was challenging fedor right right after yeah it was somewhere in that area where it was him chasing after fedor couldn't quite beat that guy you know that guy was the best at that time at that time. Still one of my all-time favorites.

Especially now that you've had a chance to look at his career in perspective because he's decided to step back. I've been watching some of his old fights. I've watched the Best of Pride. You've watched some of the crazy ones. He was a risk-taking motherfucker, man.

As a heavyweight champ. A risk-taking motherfucker, man. Yeah. As a heavyweight champ, a risk-taking motherfucker. He wanted to go in there, and he wanted to finish you. No matter what, he wanted to just violently crush you. And he would do... I mean, it just seemed like he had that super killer instinct that, I mean, is rare. He was incredible. Yeah. He was so aggressive and explosive and yet unassuming.

Yeah. It was the weirdest thing. 230 pounds, 220 pounds of not buff. At all. Almost like a chubby kid. Yeah. Not even a little buff. And just like, I mean, he could move.

Yeah. That guy was fast and he hit with, you know, he hit like a, had a brick on the end of his hand. And it was crazy because he really started off as a grappler yeah but somewhere along the line he became one of the scariest strikers in mma and one of the guys who was the most successful striking like his fight with cro cop was basically a kickboxing fight yeah they stood the whole time yeah i mean there was a few exchanges on the ground where he was inside of cro cop's guard but for the most part it was a kickboxing bout that he won yeah exactly yeah Crow Cop and he just kept

Crow Cop backing up he kept coming forward and he's always dangerous you know and there was fights where he had to come back to like the fight against Fujita where he got clipped oh yeah he did the chicken dance yeah he did the chicken dance and then you know 15 seconds chicken dance. And then, you know, 15 seconds later, Fujita's out. Yeah. Randleman slammed him and then literally just swept him and took his arm. That Kimura, that reverse armbar, whatever it is, that was beautiful. And it was like the seconds after getting slammed on his head in one of the most ridiculous suplexes ever attempted in MMA.

Yeah. And Randleman, if you never saw Randleman fight, Randleman was probably the biggest freak athlete to ever get into MMA. I know that's like a big statement. No, that guy is a ball of alpha. Yeah, he is just...

He could do things physically like the Hulk. Like the Hulk. If the Hulk was real. That's him. He would go into the octagon before fights And do this thing where he would jump up in the air Just to kind of freak you out And he would literally jump to the top of the octagon It was one of the weirdest things you've ever seen in your life

You couldn't believe a human could jump that high He's not that tall But wide and just long Is he 5'11 or 6 feet tall maybe? 5'11 I'd say tall maybe? 5'11, I'd say. And unbelievably muscular in his prime. I mean, he was a superhero. Had a 26-inch waist.

He looked like Wolverine. Like if Wolverine was a real person, he had that build. And god damn, that motherfucker could move. Randleman would take guys down and take guys down with these powered doubles, like launch them through the air like he was launching hundreds of pounds. You know those big looping set up hooks that he would throw like he knocked

a cro-cop with? He jumped from halfway across the ring. Ridiculous. Explosiveness, athleticism, power, speed, off the charts, but seemed like there was only bursts where he really applied himself. That's one of the curses it seems seems like, for these ultra, ultra talented guys.

It's like almost it comes too easy. And it's almost like guys that have to, I've always said if you want to learn technique, like when he was trying to learn jiu-jitsu, learn from a light guy. Learn from a guy who has a struggle and really learn how to do it correctly. You learn from some Kevin Reneman type cat, like that guy can do shit you can't do, man. Like, he's still getting around that. He ain't going to do what he's doing. He's just going to can opener you all day.

Yeah, let's just forget that. We've got to figure out another way to approach this because you guys are dealing with two different kinds of vehicles. That guy's got a fucking Ferrari. Yeah. He can do crazy shit. You can't do that. You've got to think.

Yeah, even a Ford Aspire aren't going to. It's weird that a lot of those guys that are like super ultra talented for whatever reason they don't achieve

the same results that a lot of the guys that are like almost it's an uphill battle the entire way. But along the way they develop

these incredible skills. Like perfect example of a guy who had very few physical gifts and didn't even take care of his health was Jeremy Horn. Yeah. You know, Jeremy Horn would eat shitty-ass food. He was never yoked. He didn't lift a weight in his life. He had, what, 200 fights or something?

Fucking goddamn, Jeremy Horn had a lot of fights. And he very rarely got hurt. Yeah. Very rarely. He got chucked. The chuck fight was like the only fight where he got hurt. That was a bludgeoning. That was hurt. That was a bludgeoning. That was sad.

It was a bludgeoning. It was a different Chuck. It was a different Chuck, and Jeremy didn't belong in that weight class. There was already a weight class below. He should have been competing at 85. It was, I think, a money thing. It was a hype thing, you know? Well, yeah.

It was like Chuck's first loss. Yeah. It was a fun fight. The first fight was interesting because Jeremy caught Chuck with an arm triangle from the bottom and put him to sleep, which never happens. It's so rare. And if you know how fucking strong Chuck Liddell is, that's when that becomes really incredible. Yeah. Because Chuck is a fucking savage.

He's a very big, very strong man. People don't know. I was in person. I saw some of his greatest victories, like the Tito fights and the Babalu fights. You can think of so many of them. Back to the Randleman fight, another great fight. Chuck had a way of going after dudes. The first Tito knockout, that fucking series of hammers he threw.

He was a terrifying guy, man. Terrifying. Especially for Tito at that time, because Tito knew. Yeah, it was coming. Yeah, Tito knew it was coming. He knew that it was only going to get worse with no pads on. Yeah. And Tito doesn't like getting hit.

He's just that kind of guy who will break know, will break under that kind of pressure. I think most people will, but he wilted pretty bad. Well, it was just a terrible matchup for him at that time. And I think Tito was already having some back problems. I think Tito's back had been fucking with him for a while. I mean, you've got to think, he had a real powerful style. Tito had this really aggressive attacking style. And the only way to fucking feed that bitch is you got to work it like that in the gym.

And I'm sure if he fought the way he fought and if he trained for those kind of fights, I bet his training was every bit as fucking brutal. And that's an incredible amount of punishment for your body to take. My coach is the one who had him there. And he just, I mean, that guy trained his ass off from what my coach has said. Colin Yama? Yeah. Colin says that.

Colin's been around forever. Yeah, he's super old school. Old school. Respect. Yeah. Colin Yama, respect. We got an old school team, man. Fuck yeah, we do.

I mean, to go from like Tito's early days, you know. I mean, that dude went hard, man. And I'll tell you what, you know, people people I don't think Tito Ortiz gets enough respect No, people realize that in during his era He was incredibly dominant even if he lost to Chuck Liddell or whoever he lost to during Tito's era when he was on top when he beat Evan Tanner when It when he slammed him and KO'd him rest in peace Evan Tanner Yeah, when you know when he beat Ken Shamrock granted, these are not the best fighters in the world.

At the time, Ken had already had a long career and had a lot of damage. ACLs were fucked up. But it doesn't matter. Tito was fucking dominant back then. When he would get his hands on you, he was so strong. So strong. Get you down with clean wrestling. And then maybe he didn't punch that hard on the feet,

but when he got on top of you, oh, man, he was putting all of his weight into the elbows, all of his weight into the punches, and he was just on point with that. In my opinion, he's like a pioneer of ground and pound inside the guard. Oh, yeah, definitely. Because he's one of the best at doing it inside the guard. Everybody I say, if I see someone doing a ground and pound thing in the guard,

I always think, well, this guy would do better if he would get out of this position. Everybody I say, if I see someone doing a ground and pound thing in the guard, I always think, well, this guy would do better if he would get out of this position. Not Tito. Tito would fucking smash guys from inside their guard. And I think we learned a lot about horsepower in those fights. If you've got that kind of horsepower, there's certain like most dudes have a 320

horsepower engine. And if you're in there with a dude like Tito, Tito's got a 500 horsepower engine. And you're not going to hold on to him with your legs yeah it's not your sweaty ass

tired legs are not going to keep that animal fucking slamming elbows in your face but it's just that was his time and everybody's time

is very limited in that sport of course we all have a very limited shelf life we're going to go back to it even Tito

I mean even Chuck who was one of the most durable guys ever. At a certain point in time, he had to be like, we're gone. Your body gives out, that button gets pushed too much, whatever it is. One day,

most of us want to go out on our shield. That's just how it ends. It's not always pretty. It's interesting, the volume of strikes that you guys deal with in the flyweight division, it's got to be higher by far than any other division, right? Has anybody ever compiled it and tried to see what the volume of strikes is? That's a good...

Someone do that on the UG. Someone figure it out. Yeah, someone probably already has. They're like, I'm on it! Crunching numbers, I got the data. There's probably dudes out there that remember all those stats. I only drive a gun on weekends. But the amount of actual beats that actually go on,

whether it's movement, steps, strikes landed, and the accelerated aspect of that in comparison to maybe other weight classes where they don't move as much i wonder if uh that has an impact on you know your body getting to a certain point and just saying all right we're good yeah i landed the fourth most leg kicks in ufc history oh my god that's what helwani told me in your last fight yeah 43 holy shit god damn which i'm gonna have to kick harder because if i land 43 kicks someone should not be walking I'm just thinking about

43 kicks hitting your legs and that was just the body that was just the legs I got a couple of the body and a couple of the head I think the average person I come from a Muay Thai gym

I know you do listen I love your footwork too man you're a fun guy to watch it's constant excitement and your last fight was fucking badass I wish I was there. It was a lot of fun.

Did you fight in Brazil? Is that where it was? Yeah, 163. What was that like? Oh, man. I love Brazil. I went out of my way to make the fans appreciate me and not hate me. I was the only non-Brazilian that didn't get booed at weigh-ins.

Oh, that's beautiful. Of course, I knew I would get booed in the fight because there's 15,000, 20,000 angry Brazilians in there. They chant, you're going to die. You know what I think, though, man? Undeniably, you're one of the best fighters in the world. Thank you. And undeniably, they're mixed martial arts fans.

Those people, when they see a top contender in his weight. Thank you. And undeniably, they're mixed martial arts fans. Yeah. Those people, when they see a top contender in his weight class, respect. They appreciate it. I mean, there's a few guys that have said stupid shit

like Chael Sonnen. Yeah. Chael Sonnen can't go to fucking Brazil. Like, if Chael ever, look, Chael's not the type

to come to me for advice. Yeah. But if he ever came to me for advice, and he said, hey, Joe, they're offering me a fight

against a Brazil. Vitor Belfort in Brazil. Do I go, fuck, no, you don't go. No, don't eat the food. And I'm not saying Brazilian people would poison you. Don't get me wrong. But one of them might. Shit.

They're fucking, they have a lot of pride. They're the most intense fans. And I like it. I enjoy it. I was chanting, you're going to die along with them. What is it? The words to that again? I think it. I enjoy it. I was chanting, you're going to die along with them. What is it? The words to that again? I think it's...

Ooh, bamba de. Ooh, bamba de. It's M-A-R-R-A. It's somewhere around there. Something like that. Yeah. And they just... I mean, even in Australia.

American fans, you got to get your act together. You guys are half really knowledgeable, but quiet. And the other loud half are douchebags and are just drunk. But other countries, they might be douchebags and are just drunk but like other other countries they might be douchebags but they're all doing it at once like you know they they just become one giant entity of energy that's just going fucking crazy and it god i love that shit man there's nothing like brazil for that no nothing like it it's it's a really life-changing experience they first of all they're there for the first fight an hour early. Exactly. An hour early, the place is packed to the gills.

They're singing songs and shit. I'm not joking, right? Yeah, it's incredible. You can hear it in the back, and you're like, wow. They have fucking passion. And they're so successful. If you look at Brazil in the international MMA scene, I mean, fucking across the board from the old days, the very first one, Hoist Gracie, to go over just all these

different dudes that are Anderson, Shogun, you know, just all throughout the list. Fabricio Verdun. They're everywhere. Vanderlei Silva, of course, you know, and Jesus Christ, so many jujitsu guys. Aldo Burrell. So many. I mean, they get, yeah. So many.

Yeah. There's so many, and they're still coming. They're coming more and more and more. You've seen these guys from, whether it's Novo Uniao or all the different teams. There's a fucking gang of them over there. Yeah, and when we were down there, I didn't get to see it, but my coach and a few of the guys went into X Gym to watch sparring. And Jeeva, my jiu-jitsu coach, Jeeva the arm collector, Santana,

he got, you know, he, yeah he got you know he like the guy didn't like the guy they just go super hard and the guy the guy hit him with like a spinning heel kick and hit him in the ribs and just like separated a rib or something or hurt him and uh and they're like man those guys they they're fighting yeah like they they are going they're trying to knock each other out like jean-carin knocked some dude out and woke him up and the guy kept sparring. Oh, my God. You know?

Of course, if you can survive that, you're going to survive a fight. You know? I mean, they're tough. They build a tougher product than, I think, anywhere else in the world. Do you think it's just the extreme poverty that's close by that you're getting a real intense. Like need to get the fuck out of there. And elevate your position. And this is an opportunity to become Anderson Silva. Exactly.

To be yeah. To be a baller. To be Elvis you know. Intercontinental baller. You know. By far. I think that they see it. And they know that.

That's where you know. The humble beginnings they started at. Yeah. So they see it. And it just makes sense. There's a straight path. Yeah. There's a straight path.

There's no. I mean there's. You just know where to go. Such a high level of competition there. It's really interesting to see. But you know what? In America you can see the same thing. There's such a high level of competition everywhere in MMA. Oh yeah, there is. It's amazing. It's an amazing time. Where you're seeing high level females. You're seeing really high level MMA fights that are happening in female divisions They're gonna have to expand female divisions. Yeah, we have one of my training partners to grow my gym That's the Invicta champ Carlos Barza, and I mean she is

She's fucking badass. She is I see her beat dudes up all the time, and I mean she is fucking mean Yeah, she's fucking bad. I mean like in the gym I've had to I've had to crack her hard and just be like be like hey jesus like stop it she's trying to kill you yeah like i told you once i told you twice if you do that again i'm going i'm going to drop you do you feel like you're a john wayne movie when that shit happens we gotta smack a bitch and go hey hey listen i know you've been fucking up some dudes if you ain't fucking up me i'm not trying to fuck you up i'm just just just we not trying to fuck you up. We're trying to go over technique, Carla. Don't hit me that hard.

Pop, and I hit her back. She goes, I'm sorry. I'm like, okay. Well, some people get really intense, man. They get really intense. But that's, you know, obviously, it's a style of training. And some people disagree with it. Like, they think that, like, to shoot box it up,

you're going to punch a card too many times before you even get into a ring or a cage. Or headgear. That's what I do. But does that really make an impact? Because they say that headgear, even though you don't get cut as much, you're still, it's the impact on the brain. The actual impact doesn't change.

It gets cushioned a bit, but it almost rattles you more. That could be true. I don't know. I just, you know. I'm no scientist. Yeah, I have no idea. Gentlemen, don't take my i have no idea i just it it it keeps it makes me think i'm protected yeah so i'll wear it well

and also do you do you practice uh training with guys that you could trust do you like it do or do you train with anybody train with anybody no no we we we've got a we've got a tight-knit team it's a it's an interesting thing isn't it it, that MMA over maybe the past decade or so has really developed a way to professionally approach things, whereas there was a lot of variation just 10 years ago in training methods, and a lot of people did a lot of stupid shit. We bring in wrestlers. We have the wrestling coaches that bring in wrestlers to work with me.

I have the guys that are on the team, but then I also have guys that are just Muay Thai, like Romy Adonza. The guy's one of the best U.S. kickboxers of all time. No one knows who he is. He fights at 115 pounds. But he'll sleep any heavyweight out there, I promise you. He's incredible. What is his name again? Romy Adonza.

And is he going to fight MMA or just Muay Thai? He's just Muay Thai? He's just Muay Thai. He's had a bad string of luck the past couple of fights, but he's just incredible. There's a lot of high-level Muay Thai nowadays too, right? Yeah, I've got the Muay Thai, the wrestling, the jiu-jitsu, and I work it all separate, all with guys I trust that are my size, and then we can combine it too. And who's the mastermind of your camp? Is it you and Colin? Do you work it out together? It's just Colin. Colin, Jeeva for the Jiu Jitsu and then

Romy for you know because he holds pads for me. You know we'll go like literally we'll go like an hour straight holding pads. Romy Arum? No Romy Adonza. Romy Adonza. Yeah. Romy Arum's over at Millennia. Yeah. And then you have for wrestling

Sheldon Kim. Romy's another old school guy right yeah javi vasquez old school super old i mean he was motherfuckers right there he was a black belt at like what 16 and a long ass time ago too and there's no black belts yeah i mean yeah i never rolled with javi but javi uh rolled uh i saw him roll a couple times at john jock in person watching his jujitsu jujitsu is incredible he talks to you the whole time it's a constrictor and just tells you what's going to happen and like in like a super like sometimes annoying way he's so good he'll show you after what what what he did but it's like dude oh my god you're so good it's crazy eddie bravo told me a javi vasquez story the first time he ever went to a tournament he saw javi he saw this dude running sprints up

the stairs and he was like what the fuck who he saw Javi. He saw this dude running sprints up the stairs, and he was like, what the fuck? Who the hell's gonna have to fight this fucking guy? And Eddie comes in there with flip-flops on. He can't even do a sit-up, and he's watching this fucking dude run sprints upstairs. I think he lost to Javi twice. I want to say he

almost caught him in a twister once, but him and Javi had some crazy battles. Javi's an elite, elite jiu-jitsu guy. Yeah, very rarely do... There's black belts, and then there's the super elite. Yeah. You know, like the Javis or the Jivas or the, you know, you can name off a million different Gracies.

Javi's also a guy that he was pretty public about his knee injury. Yeah. You know, he had a pretty fucking serious knee injury when he lost his title. Yeah. And who the fuck was it that he fought? God damn it. I can see him right in front of me right now. He fought in the UFC as well, that guy.

God damn it. I got to look it up now. Sorry, Javi. Javi's listening. He's like, what the fuck, Joe? Fuck you guys. How do you not remember, bitch? I can't remember. Sorry, Javi. Javi's listening. He's like, what the fuck, Joe? Fuck you guys. How do you not remember, bitch? I can't remember.

There's not enough room, all right? There's a thing called... I know Robert fought him. Robert used to be on my team, but I don't know if that wasn't the fight, I don't think. No, no. Robert just stayed out of his guard. Yeah.

Robert fought a very smart fighter guy named Emerson. Yeah. That was another guy who had incredible skill and could have been really good. Alberto Crane. But wasted it. Yeah, he fought Alberto Crane and blew out his ACL and then kept fucking fighting through the rest of the fight. His shit was gone. So his leg was buckling every time he tried to move.

Every single time. And just mangling the inside of his knee while he did that. And he just really always had problems with it after that you know he had so many problems with these actually he got mad at me that I brought it up in a telecast once I didn't mean I mean he was talked about it in interviews I didn't think that I was like naming something people weren't aware of but I was saying that someone should kick his legs because he's had problems with his knees and he was like that's kind of fucked up.

And I see his point. It is kind of fucked up. But it's also public knowledge. It's not like you hide that. And like you told me, don't tell anybody, but I fucked my knee up. Coaches are already going to have that thought of. Yeah. And I just, I hate saying shit like that.

But it is what you should do. Yeah. I mean, it's like if you were fighting in a movie like Game of Thrones and there was like the noble choice. No, that's not noble to kick a guy's legs if his knees are problematic. But with a fucking boa constrictor like that, dude, you got to take every advantage you can get anyway, right? Yeah.

You got to just try and put a chink in that armor somewhere so the body doesn't move right if you can just start to hurt something. Yeah. So he got mad that I brought that up. But it's not that I don't love you, buddy. Yeah. I love you, Javi. I do love that dude.

I was bummed out that he was mad at me. But I get it. I understand it. Yeah. It's one of those weird things where people have been upset at me if I've done commentary on them losing in spectacular fashion that I sort of emphasized it made it suckier than it even had to be. Yeah, but it's kind of your job.

I know, but I don't mean to. I know. Everybody thinks it's, or they suspect that it's personal. There's no way. You get excited about doing your job. That's apparent. Yeah, it's a weird job, though. Yeah.

It's an especially weird job if you haven't done it. Yes, that's true. I'm doing commentary on MMAma i never had an mma fight i never come close i wasn't even thinking about it you know i almost fought wesley snipes but i was pretty sure he didn't know what he was doing i thought i was just gonna grab him just take him down and show that's all i thought i felt like i'm like how's that guy gonna keep me from grabbing him yeah like what are you gonna do you're gonna be gonna be really slick? It takes a long time. We have a long time to dance. I'll grab you. I'm going to grab you. That's all I thought of. I didn't think I'll start fighting MMA. So to do commentary on a guy like Anderson Silva, who the fuck am I to say what he should do? I have zero credibility. It's a ridiculous

position for me to be in. Damn you. You're just like the refs, man. You have no business being there. It's true. I have no business being there. It's true. I have no business being there. And yet... Not the refs. I said the judges. The refs have no... The refs, actually, for the most part, I mean, there's some mistakes. Like, Mazzagati takes a lot of heat. I think...

I think it's a fucking tough gig. It's a tough job. You know, it's a tough gig. And I think there's excellent guys, like, in my opinion, right now. Big John McCarthy's always top of the heap. Always. Always. That's the gold standard.

Yeah. And then there's Herb Dean, who I think is right up there. No, he always has been. And Josh Rosenthal. That was exactly what I was going to say. Josh Rosenthal is right up there, man. I love that guy. He's elite, man.

I'm really bummed out about his legal situation. He got a... I don't want to blow up his spot. Yeah, yeah. Whatever. I don't need to talk about his legal problems. But he's a great guy. I wish that guy luck.

Yeah, me too. He's a good dude. He just did something that's only illegal because the world's run by cunts. Yeah. That's what...

Yes. Mostly answering things he shouldn't have had like firearms. Yeah. Whatever. You don't have to. Great dude.

I love the guy. And he's a great referee too. Yeah. You can count on him. There's a few guys you find out they're going to be the referee and you go,

okay, good. This is going to be a good fight. Do you have say over who referees your fights? No, I'm just waiting for the day that Kim Winslow walks in and I can just raise my hand and go, hey, this is not happening. I'm not. I think Kim does a pretty good job, man.

I don't think. I think she has a real hard time with big people, though. Yeah. You know, like what was her last fight It was Gonzaga And Pee Wee Herman I was like that is crazy That's dangerous For her and for the fighters

She's like 120 pounds maybe And Gonzaga is 260 260 built like A fucking gorilla That someone took in a lab And merged with a human. I mean, when he gets in front of the camera

and goes, wah, and makes crazy faces and shit, Gonzaga looks like he's some crazy caveman. Well, see, it just bothers me because she's made some bad choices and the fact that I don't want to hear a woman's voice in the cage. Oh, how dare you?

Just yapping at me while I'm trying to fight. Prepare for the feminists to be coming at you full bore. Especially feminist MMA fans. Yeah, that's just me. That's a huge growing part of the market. The UFC's going to have to apologize for you now. Probably. We're probably both in trouble right now.

Let's shut our phones off so Dana can't text us. Sorry, Dad. He'll fucking shut the internet down. He'll call Vegas. Call Loren'll fucking shut the internet down. He'll call Vegas. I'm getting a string. Call Lorenzo. Shut the internet down. Rogan and Ian are going to get us in trouble. It's funny, man. But I see how you would want, definitely, if you have that opinion about it, whether it's a woman or a man, if you have an opinion about a referee that you don't think is good, I would think that would be important to make sure that that's one less thing

you have to think about. Do they give you a hard time about that? Is that pretty easy to do? I don't know. I've never had to complain about it. Because I know that's been in dispute in boxing matches. There's certain refs that are slower to break things up and let guys fight out of clinches.

And then there's other refs that don't tolerate none of that shit. I've never seen it happen in UFC, so I don't know. It's a good question. I'm sure it's going to happen or it has happened and that they've taken care of it. I'm sure Burt has made a quick work of it. That guy does his job. Well, really, it's an interesting situation that a lot of people aren't even aware of. People go, what?

It's the UFC fix your fucking judging. They can't do anything. It's the state athletic commissions that control all the judging. It's getting better, I think, sometimes. Sometimes I think it's getting better. And then every now and then a fight comes along and you're like, wait, what? Come on, man. There's some shit

you guys are not taking into consideration here. There's a few fights where you just go, man, I'm missing something here. I don't get how that was. What did you see that I didn't see or not see? I'm just lost. I really believe this, and this sounds like stupid bullshit, but I think that they should consider having one extra vote,

one extra judge, and that one extra judge should be the internet. That's what I think. I think you should allow fans to register and vote and allow them to register and vote and allow them to Like you could rate someone who judges the way you rate a Yelp account like all this food tastes like ass Yeah Like all this guy judges like shit and then you get a few red flags if you made some Questionable decisions and then you get removed from the queue

Yeah And you can't judge anymore or you can't judge high level fights or you have to prove yourself or whatever the fuck you got to do. But I think having that as a fourth judging is a fourth option. Maybe even coming to it if it's a close disputed decision. If it's close, let's go to the internet judge. Let's see what that was. And then, you know, take that into consideration or what, I mean, I don't know how you would factor it in. What would be most valuable, whether it's the in-person judges or the internet judges? Because it's a different experience not being there as well.

Maybe give them half a point? Yeah, like, does that make sense that it's a different experience watching it cage-side as it is watching it on television? And it almost wouldn't be fair if they only watched it on television? It's completely different. There's so much you can't see.

Right. And I'm sure judges have screens in front of them, don't they? Yeah, and they do have screens if they want to catch angles. They do now. It's something that we complained about for a long fucking time before they finally gave in and started giving them screens. Because there's certain angles where if I'm on one side of the cage and there's a ground fight going on on the exact opposite side of the cage, I can't see what's going on.

If a guy has his back to me and the other guy has, I don't know what he's, I have to see a monitor. Exactly. It's the only way to see it. Exactly. So finally judges get to see that because for the longest time, some of the questionable decisions could be boiled down to that. You didn't get a good angle to see exactly what was happening the whole time. You didn't get a good angle to see exactly what was happening the whole time. So in a close 10-9 sort of a situation where it could go either way,

there's a lot of fights where it could kind of go either way. Where after the round was over, you're like, fuck, they have to choose a winner here. How much do judges go off punch stats? Do they know them right away? I don't think they know them at all. That's the kind of thing that needs to get figured out. We have them. I know, but I'm saying that they should want that information to judge a fight.

I don't think they get it. I'm pretty sure they don't get it. I think that could influence them. Yeah. But I think that's why they don't get it. I need to find that out for sure. I should ask Mike Goldberg. I'll text him.

That's how strong this is. While this is going on, Mike Goldberg will be on that show. If they don't know the numbers, then that's bullshit because they need to see those numbers. Yeah, it seems like that would be something just like the monitors that would be a no-brainer. But it's hard, man. It's hard to get change. Change is

fucking hard. Especially when it's run by a state program. And that's what people need to understand. This is not is not as simple as like the ufc needs to implement the no you're dealing with a whole bureaucracy you're dealing with people that don't want to lose their jobs you're dealing with it's really tough to fire people because it's a government gig it's not the same yeah you know and that's part of like there's a lot of people that are judges that i like as human beings i always say hi to them. They're very nice people. I just don't think they're qualified to do what they're doing.

And I think there should be... You can look at them and see that. Yeah, there should be some sort of absolute baseline knowledge that you have to have had. You have to have some experience in some sort of combat sport. I think that fighters or judges should have been fighters with so many fights it's a good idea you know or or at least hire a uh a stand-up judge a wrestling judge and a jujitsu judge or you know some sort of and then have a fourth mma i don't know just they need to figure out something because everyone has to

have knowledge and i I think, the entire sport instead of just one facet of it. Yeah, I think you're right too. But man, if you had just jiu-jitsu judges, those motherfuckers would be... Every fight was like, Jiu-jitsu was winning, my friend! He said, play guard. He didn't know he can pass his guard.

My friend, you know, we disagree. Everybody... There were so many Brazilians were mad when Roger Gracie got cut. Yeah. They're fucking legend. He's just so good, man. He's one more fight for 205, Mr. Dana White. They're like, they all wanted him, you know.

They're so loyal. And like a name like Gracie. Yeah. You know, that shit's, that's his royalty in mixed martial arts as you get. Fuck Prince Charles. All right. That's real royalty. The Gracie name is royalty.

It is. So when Dana cut Hodger Gracie, it's like, Jesus! Yeah. What? How dare you?

He's a dude that I don't think should be fighting in 185. I look at Hodger and he's so big. He's so tall. Yeah. And it is murder for that motherfucker

to make 185. I saw his, like, what he looked like after he'd weighed in. Like, Jesus. That dude,

I mean, that is really hardcore weight cutting that guy's doing. Yeah, he's a big boy. Fuck yeah, he is, man. Yeah, the weight cutting is his. Yeah, he's big, dude. When you're around him, you're like, how does that guy weigh 185? How is that even possible?

I see a lot of guys like that at every weight. Yeah. That is just like, wow. Yeah, no one better exemplifies it than who? GSP's pretty big. Anthony Rumble Johnson. He barely made one with 170, but now he's fighting at heavyweight. Yeah.

It's okay. And he's beating guys like Orlovsky. You missed weight at 70, so they kicked you out of 70. They kicked you out of a weight class, which I don't knew that was possible. Then you missed weight at the next higher, the 15 pounds higher weight class by 12 pounds. So you missed your

original weight by, what, 27 pounds? You're just being an asshole now. I met him in between fights once. It was back when he was one of the scariest guys in the welterweight division. He was just coming up up he had knocked out Tommy Burns okay and remember that fight yeah ruthless fight man he was absolutely brutal Tommy was coming off the ultimate fighter and he was there's moments in fighters careers

where they just appear like oh my god this is the motherfucker right here and he was one of them in that moment when he burst on the scene and knocked out that Tommy Bernstein, that was like his coming out party. I was like, this kid is fucking powerful. Yeah, that's what it was. I mean, he went after people and he just physically just crushed people. And he was so big for 170. It didn't even make sense. No.

I met him in between fights. He was at one of the, I think it was in Denver, came down, and he wasn't competing. So he was giant. I go, what do you weigh? And he goes, I'm about 230, 220, 230. Like, how much? What? He was huge.

He was fucking gigantic. That's a 60-pound weight cut. And he's built like a heavyweight, too. Yeah, he's huge. I mean, he didn't look like, man, you shouldn't be fighting heavyweight. It was like, yeah, you could be a heavyweight. How the fuck did you get 170? Because he's huge i mean he like looked like what didn't look like man you shouldn't be fighting heavyweight it was like yeah you could be a heavyweight how the fuck did you get 170 because he's he's tall too it's not like he's a short super thick guy he's just a big man yeah that's that's just got to be unbelievably bad for your body it's just got to be unbelievably bad for

your body when you have that nutty seesaw right yeah i honestly probably think it takes a year or two off your life every time you do it. I mean, it's like, I cut, the most I've ever cut was 18.8 in the last 20 hours. It's a different thing for you, though, too, because of the percentage of your body weight. Oh, yeah.

As opposed to, like, a guy like Johnson who's 50, 60 pounds heavier. But I'm saying, I was in Florida. Oh, my God. When I fought Demetrius the second time. I cut 18.8 pounds the last 20 hours. I don't even know what I was before that. I just...

That one really screwed me up. When you go to a place like Florida, how much time do you spend adjusting to the moisture in the air and the change in the environment? I don't... I mean, I don't really... It doesn't really bother me. What about altitude, if you have to fight at, like, Denver?

I've never fought in the high altitude before. Wow. But, I mean. That would be a wild place to watch some fucking flyweights. Oh, jeez, man. I wonder. Because heavyweights in Denver are crazy. Like, every time you have a heavyweight fight in Denver, it's like, these poor fucking guys just got drugged and pushed into a cage.

You got a fucking dart in your neck, man. People don't understand, man. If you've never been to Denver, that shit is up there. That's a mile-high city, legit. And the people that live there have more endurance than you. If you get used to that, too, that's why those guys train in Albuquerque, everybody goes up to Big Bear. When you get used to

that shit, it makes your body super enriched with oxygen and red blood cells. You have all this endurance. My girlfriend outside, she lives in Reno, is always in Tahoe. Oh, so you're always up there high and she's i mean she's always she comes out here more but but do you ever go up there to train uh no i'm going to start more because i because she's up there and i actually genuinely like this one so i would think that for a guy like you like there'd be a real benefit in training at a place like big bear well i don't make enough money right to pay

for a camp you know and i do do cvac which is i don't make enough money to pay for a camp. And I do do CVAC, which is, I don't know if you've ever known what CVAC is. Explain that, though. It is, let me try and be smart here. Is it the tent like BJ has? No. Is that what it has, or the sleeping bag? It's an egg.

An egg. It's an egg you sit in. And you're sitting in a recliner. And basically, it does the elevation, but it changes to temperature density of air elevation um a few a few different things where it makes your body at a cellular level flex and and expel all the bad stuff and you're just ready to suck and you feel amazing like you'll shoot from from sea level up to 25 000 feet within 20 seconds and then shoot back down

and then up and they do this rhythmic stuff to it and you do breathing exercises. Why am I only hearing about this for the first time right now? I'm so excited. I was the first real fighter to start doing it and now you've got a lot of guys doing it in Newport Beach. This is something I've always...

What's it called again? SEVAC. Meanwhile, cut to 10 months from now, Joe Rogan caught up in. Ascent Newport Beach. The biggest hoax ever. I got tricked into going into a fucking egg. Yeah. See, there's.

I got totally hoaxered. And I love it, man. I'm sorry. So how do you say it again? CVAC. CVAC. C-V-A-C-K? Yeah.

No, no, no. V-A-C. And it's, I go to Ascent Newport Beach and it I mean, it's, I'll do 20-minute sessions, I'll do three of them, and I just pound, I pound out, you know, water like this with a good, you know, 9.5 pH or whatever while I'm in there, and it just, I feel amazing. And then I do breathing exercises while I'm in there, so I'll hold my breath, and what it does is when you shoot up an elevation you're already full of oxygen and dude, it stretches your lungs

like, there's no other way to get this feeling that I've ever felt it literally stretches your lungs out and you're like and then breathe again what's the website for it? I'm having a hard time finding it CVAC what? CVAC Newport Beach, just google

CVAC Ascent am I spelling it right? S-C-A-V-A-C? No, it's just Ascent. What's that? Ascent C-VAC, Newport Beach. Ascent C-VAC. But am I spelling it right?

S-E-A-V-A-C? Yeah, but C-VAC is just one word. C, the letter C. Oh, C and then VAC, that's it? Oh, okay. Just the letter C-VAC. Okay. C-VAC, Newport Beach.

Okay, CVAC. That's what it is. So it stands for something? What does it stand for? I have no idea. Ascent CVAC. But yeah, I mean, it's something that... How long has this been around for?

It's been around for a while. Powerful five-star review on Yelp. They've just... Yelp's amazing. They've just started to really cater towards athletes. Mortito goes. I've been going for a while now. Wow.

So what is the process? How does the actual thing change your body? You go in and you sit in the pod. And then as you build up, there's different levels. The fluctuations in the pressure, the temperature, the elevation, the density of the air, it just makes your body just heal faster. You get rid of swelling. I mean, it has a list of stuff.

I mean, you read on there what it does. I can't really put my finger on it. It just makes me feel amazing. It makes my cardio go through the roof. Sounds like one of those magnet bracelets, son. Hop on. Check it out. Cycle variations and adaptive conditioning.

Okay, that's what they're calling it. Building the new super athlete, mensjournal.com. And it's in this. It works for me. I believe you, dude. I'm only fucking with you. Come on. Much respect.

I'm just joking. But what they're saying is this is called the power of... It's an article that's in Men's Journal magazine. And the article is Building the New Super Athlete. And the first sentence is the power of the pod. And it says Heather Hinecker owns and runs what could be considered a gym of the future in Newport Beach, California. The machine does all the work at her ascent facility. The training consists of showing up and settling into one of her three stationary CVAC pods for a 20-minute session. The air pressure inside will yo-yo

between sea level and about 22,500 feet with 200 to 400 pressure changes in between. When you hit maximum altitude or rather the air pressure equivalent, you take a rapid nosedive back to Earth akin to racing up to the top of the Oncagagua. I don't know what that is. Onca-A-C-O-N-C-A-G-U-A. Why did you have to be so obscure, crazy person? You couldn't say Everest? Heather. Fuckhead.

Heather. Keep it together. And jumping off. say Everest? Heather. Fuckhead. Heather. Keep it together. And jumping off, the 36-year-old Hinkler said that the pod is the only thing that has kept her rumboid arthritis at bay, and that she left her job in

finance, sank her life savings into this, and saw her business nearly go under until word started spreading around. The California Jock Grapevine. Dude, welcome to the California Jock Grapevine. You're part of it. Wow. You're in the California Jock Grapevine. I don't know if. You're in the California Jock Grapevine. I don't know if that's good or not.

It's a tricky one, right, when someone calls you a jock. She says the majority of her clients are professionals, athletes, and the first thing it says, UFC fighters. And it says Major League Baseball player. And dirty comedian. I'm coming. I'll go there. I want to try that shit.

How many times do you go? A week. Three days a week. It's death to get down there, though. Yeah. Well, and supposedly it cures veneers. And I kept telling Dana, you got to try that shit. How many times do you go? A week? Three days a week. It's death to get down there, though. Supposedly, it cures Meniere's. I kept telling Dana, you've got to come try it. I had vertigo for six months of my life, a while back.

Cures Meniere's? How does it cure Meniere's? Again, I don't know. I didn't build it. Is it a bracelet with a rubber band and a magnet under its sun? I told him to just give it a shot. It makes me feel better. Well, it to just give it a shot. It makes me feel better. It sounds like there's something happening. It sounds like also it's getting

a lot of people that are excited about it. Yeah, because now finally people are starting to see it and they're starting to see the results. Although I do have to say, we were talking about Shane Carlin. Much respect to Shane Carlin. Much love to Shane Carlin. Big Shane Carlin fan as a human being and as a fighter. But that motherfucker

was trying to tell me that a rubber band worked for him. He had a rubber band with a magnet on who was telling me that it's really helping my balance.

I'm like, that's Shane Carlin. Nothing. That's in your head. Those guys, the guys who invented Power Balance, are from my area.

There's a bunch of them now, right? Yeah, but I'm saying Power Balance, that company at least was done by my house. Did they get in jail? Did they have to go to jail?

I don't think so. Did they get away? I mean, I know there was some crazy lawsuits. Whether it was them or someone else. I think they just had to give money or they had to stop doing something. I know it went under, but they made a boatload of money while they could. Well, if you sold something that gave you the kind of confidence that made you believe that, I mean, is that a product? Because if you got all those fucking positive, you know, you look at like those stupid rubber band things, man.

So many people were telling me how great they were. Oh, I wore them just to wear it. Just to wear it so people, so for one, I could try and get a sponsorship out of it. Oh, there you go. That's smart. And two, I didn't, I thought it was bullshit. But if it did actually help because everybody else had them on i was wearing it you know the only reason why i was willing to believe look i've been willing to believe a lot of dumb shit in my life psychics and fucking tarot card

readers and i've been willing to believe a lot of stupid shit but the the reason why i didn't believe in this one when it got down to it was that the dude who was trying to demonstrate it on me was trying to do carnival tricks. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. He was like, put your arm out like this. Now resist. Okay, now I'm going to put the bracelet on on you. Put your arm out like this and resist.

I'm like, that's not the same position. I go, we were up here. Let's go bring my arm back to here. Okay, we're back here again. Go ahead. No, you weren't there before. Yes, I was. Like, what are you doing?

Like, you guys are playing carnival. They were doing leverage tricks. Exactly. Like, trying to, like, get me to pick him up with my hand. I'm like, what are you doing like you guys are playing carnival they were doing leverage tricks exactly like you're trying to like get me to pick him up with my hand like what are we doing like you're holding your hand next to your waist to try to prove strength there's one way to prove strength stupid yeah put some weights on a stack and let's see if I can lift the same amount or less or more or whatever that's the only way you can't do a carnival trick so I go what are you guys doing like who taught you how to do this I go is this like do they teach you and then they got like real weird with me and i was like is this

come on man you're trying to make some money i've seen people trying to make some money before but did they teach you how to do this i'm like because this is the second person that i've ever met that has these wristbands for sale that wants to thumb wrestle they want to like get you get you in some weird mercy position exactly okay we'll try and lift me up now. It's like, well, I don't know. Yeah. When, what? It was ridiculous.

Yeah. And the guy wasn't even that good at it. I resisted it. I'm like, come on, man. You're not even doing it right. At least do it right if you're going to try and sell me this crap. It's one of those things where people want to believe that there's a rubber band that you could put on that makes you feel better. Yeah.

Like, slap that bitch on. I'm going to be ripped and good looking and talented now. This rubber band is straightening my chakras. My chakras are out of line. I didn't know what it was. I was taking yoga. It was really a waste of time. I just needed a rubber band with a little hologram in the middle of it.

Put me back in center, in tune. So how long have you been doing this three times a week thing in the CVAC pod? Oh, man, since before I got in UFC. By the way, this is not sponsored by CVAC. Right now people are going, oh, I see product placement. You worked your friends. No, this is spontaneous. I'm going to bring Joe down to try it out.

I'd love to, except I can't get down there without a helicopter. Yeah, because it takes forever. I'll just quit. I'll just pull over to the side of the road and go to sleep. Driving down to Newport Beach, people don't know. It's a joke. Yeah, it sucks. I went down to Affliction back when Tom was working there.

And I went to visit him. I said, yeah, man, I'll come visit you. Come hang out. It took two hours. Two hours. That's not even Orange County. Seal Beach is still L.A. County, I think. 40-minute drive.

I mean, it should have been a 40-minute drive at most. And I was like, this is just ridiculous. And they do that every day. And it wasn't even like, it was an off time. It was like 3 in the afternoon or 2 in the afternoon. It wasn't even like 5. My dad drove from my family dealership in downtown L.A. next to Staples Center, the Toyota dealership.

It's my family's. He would drive from there down to Laguna Niguel and then to San Clemente after we moved to San Clemente on the beach for 30 years. For some really fucking long time. How old were you when you moved? You lived on the beach? Like right on the beach? Yeah. You lived on it?

Yeah. Like I'd walk out on my balcony and I could, you know, it could be two in the morning. I could grab a group of people and run and jump in the water naked and run back in the house without getting caught. Wow. How old were you then when you guys moved to the beach? We moved there when I was 16 or 17, I believe. Did you find in any way that that had a change in your demeanor at all?

Like being by the water? No, because I already had lived in the Guna Nigel like a couple miles from the beach. I was at the beach. That's where our whole little fight crew came from was Salt Creek Beach in Dana Point. That was our beach. Like, what are you doing at our beach?

Like, beat it. Beat it, kook. We had a bunch of pro surfer friends and bodyboarder friends. And you would just bully people and kick them off the beach? And throw water balloons, you know? You feel bad about it now?

Not really. It was kind of fun. You're supposed to say yes. It was our beach, though. It was different. Well, that's so douchey, though. People just want to use the ocean, man. What the fuck?

That was our beach. It's no big deal. We were such douchebags. What I mean is, is there a difference in being by the water all the time and living at the water? Yes.

I've always wondered. For me, there is. I've always wondered like For me there is I have a friend was a beach house and it's it costs like four million bucks It looks like it should be like 50 Crazies I was like this is not a four million dollar house man And you're right next door to the neighbor like this is the nuttiest thing ever like how the fuck did somebody get you to pay? Four million dollars for this yeah, you can have like a castle in Colorado exactly Yeah, you could have a hundred acres with elk wandering through your yard.

Instead, you're just jammed up on your neighbor. And he was like, it doesn't matter. When you get up and you see the ocean, you look out, you see the ocean, he goes, I'm on vacation every day of my life. He goes, I look out there, I hear that water and it just chills me out. Yeah, for sleep, the water, I mean, my dad's a waterman.

His whole life has revolved around surfing and fishing and traveling. That's like his passions. The man fish fear my dad. He's spearfishing any sort of fishing. Spearfishing some wild shit, man. Yeah, he's... My friend Aubrey, the CEO of Onnit,

just got back from doing some spearfishing. So fun. And he was saying, it's like hunting underwater while you hold your breath. It's such a different thing. Yeah, and there's a lot more creatures that want to eat you. You know, sharks come swimming up next to you. But like, you know, like living on the beach as a senior in high school, you know, he was never home.

My parents had gotten divorced at that point. I had his brand new car to drive, brand new Porsche to drive around. Oh, my God. He let you drive a Porsche when you were in high school? No, no, point. I had his brand new car to drive, brand new Porsche to drive around. Oh, my God. He let you drive a Porsche when you were in high school? No, no, no. I just drove it. Do you know how many people right now? I just know he didn't know.

He found out I was driving it, but I would just take it. You're like an evil character in a fucking teeny bopper movie. I was a horrible kid. I mean, think about it. If there was a 16 Candles type movie, you would be the ultimate bad character. But then, you know what? There'd probably be a girl in the movie, and you'd fall in love with her, and you would change for her.

So that's what's happening right now. Yeah. Okay, nice. Yeah, that's what it would be like. Just think about you driving your dad's Porsche around, living in the fucking beach and shit, and kicking guys' asses. Like, what a dick. Yeah, constantly.

What a dick. My dad would bring, he would go kill fish, you know, big tuna or whatever out of Mexico and come back with whole fish. Oh, my God. Whole tuna. And just literally, we would eat, you don't get any fresher than that. I mean, he's cutting up, he's gutting it and then giving you sushi out. Like, it was amazing.

I've never done any tuna fishing, but my friend Tommy did. And he said they ate tuna sashimi on the boat. He said it's the most ridiculous thing. You can't even believe how good it tastes. It it's a different it's a whole different world and i mean tuna it's a it's a fucking torpedo of muscle i mean that's the best fighting fish in the ocean yeah you know tuna albacore like that right those those those the jacks you know maybe like a yellow tail but tuna is the best but um and they're also the best eating i think you know i mean jurado's fun they they're pretty, but

sailfish, they're fun, pretty, but I mean, tuna's... It's unbelievably delicious. It's so delicious that it's preferred raw. Yeah, exactly. I mean, tuna's preferred raw more than anything. The Japanese have paid over a million dollars for one fish. That's so crazy!

I love sushi. How's that possible? How's that possible? How's that possible? You sure that's true? Did you make that up? No, you can Google that shit. You can Google it. Listen, there's at least 50 people listening to this. I have to be really careful about telling the truth.

All right, largest amount paid for a tuna. Yeah. But they regularly get like $30,000, $40,000 for a tuna to catch, right? Oh, all the time. If you go out, like out of Nova Scotia, from what my dad has told me, you go out of Nova Scotia on a trip, and everyone pays, you know, for a couple day trip. Oh my god, you were wrong! You ready for this? 1.8 million!

Oh, well, fuck me running. That's insane! That's for a fish. What did it weigh? Depleted bluefin tuna sold for 1.8 million dollars. Wait a minute, what does that mean? That just means that they're trying to get them endangered, because they're... 500 pound, a moderate-sized 500 pound bluefin tuna sold for an unimaginable price of nearly 1.8 million US dollars. A new record at a Tokyo fish auction.

Yep. Wow. Okay, so that must be because the supply is way down. Oh, yeah. It's because we need to stop. I mean, as much as I love bluefin tuna, we need to farm it and we need to let it rebuild in the fucking... If we ever want to fish it again, because... Okay, but hold on.

There's some fuckery here. It's saying supposedly the high price is paid at the annual New Year's tuna auction in Tokyo are a way to celebrate. annual New Year's tuna auction in Tokyo are a way to celebrate more likely is about publicity and do not reflect actual market price. Nevertheless, the continued increasing price buyers are paying for bluefin tuna mirrors its increasing rarity. Okay, so this is a really unusual circumstance for this. Probably fuckery. Yeah.

They probably did that just so people are paying attention. Yeah, there could be some crazy Yakuza shit going on the old price was pretty high anyway though the old record was 740 000 yeah holy fucking shit and that wasn't even supposedly fucked with that's supposedly a real record that's what's the biggest those things get it'll be a thousand pounds i think gotta be okay let's find out. World record tuna. I'm scared now. I'm thinking of catching it. Could you imagine? There he is. You're in for a fucking fight, son.

Yeah, I think he's going to rip your arms off. I mean, that is a 1,000-pound ball of whatever, however many pounds it is, a ball of muscle that just wants to eat. I mean, those things could eat us. The biggest fish I ever caught was a marlin. How much? It was not that big.

It was only about 70 pounds but it was my oldest daughter was a vegetarian a little bit she was trying to be a vegetarian and i was uh you know she's just a kind person yeah and at the time i think she's like probably 12 it makes sense yeah about 12 and i said you know what let's let's go fishing i said we'll catch a fish. We'll cook it. We'll eat it. And we'll understand sort of the cycle of life. Because, you know, we buy things in the supermarket.

And we're very disconnected from it. But you have to understand, like, these animals, they eat each other. And this is like, it's a natural way for people to acquire food. And it's a way people have done it throughout history. She tried to be like this really kind person. So it was a moral reason. Like, she didn't want to hurt animals. Yeah, of course.

She loves animals. So anyway, we're fishing. we're fishing for maybe 15 minutes yeah and i hook a marlin maybe 15 minutes that's unheard of yeah like people fish for years and they never catch a marlin it's total stupid luck because we're trolling it's not like no skill whatsoever it just happened to hit my line. So we get this marlin. It's jumping through the air. It's wild, man. It's really cool. It's not that big.

It's only like 70 pounds. You know, maybe, yeah, maybe, I don't know how many feet long. But it's about, the guy said it was about 70 pounds. They get hundreds, over a thousand, I think. Well, this fucking thing, they pull it, they gaff it, they bring it in the boat, and then they beat the fucking shit out of it with a club yes and the way it works we're in hawaii in hawaii um the the owners of the boat they own the fish yeah like if you catch fish they'll take you and you'll enjoy it but it's

also their livelihood it's how they make a living so it's like it's a different sort of a situation than a lot of charters it's like like they want you to have a good time, but we know you're in a resort, and this is our livelihood, and we would like the food too. Is that cool? Everybody's like, yeah, it's cool. Because otherwise, sometimes the food would go to waste, and that's terrible.

I think they recognized that really early, and they put the kibosh on it, and they said, look, people are just trying to have some fun. Let's have them have some fun, catch some fish, but we'll eat the fish. So they were going to take it, and apparently they bring it to a luau, and they smoke the marlin. And my poor little 12-year-old is just sitting there while this marlin gets clubbed. It's like, fuck you, Dad.

Womp, womp. And it's a big animal. I mean, it's in a boat with us, and it's a fairly big boat. A big, beautiful animal that once you kill it, the color goes away. Yeah, and it's the size of a dog. Yeah, exactly. It's like a golden retriever size. Yeah, exactly.

They're beating it with clubs, and it's real, man. It's real shit. And when you're a 12-year-old girl wanting to be a vegetarian, that's a fucked up thing to say. It didn't die right away either, man. It was flopping around. They had ice on it, and it was fine. It wasn't moving at all.

And then out of nowhere, it just flop, flop, flop, flop, flop, flop, flop, flop. It was devastating devastating and we didn't catch another fucking thing for the rest of the trip we caught this one marlin and then the rest of the day was just

looking down at this murder victim who was in the boat with us yeah just sitting there dead and then afterwards taking photos together

this like really weird look on her face like this is this fucking murder victim that we clubbed to death we didn't club to death we didn't club to death but we ate it and abetted yeah tricked it into the boat but they're uh apparently

you can eat marlin like i didn't know i didn't know you can't eat them but apparently you can what is the size of that one 920 pound tuna caught last week oh my god look at that thing oh i hope my dad's watching this what a. And they have to attach it to a fucking crane, ladies and gentlemen. To get it out of the water, they hook it up to a crane. I love killing fish, man. Killing fish is a good time. Well, if you grew up near the ocean, look at the size of this fucking thing. Oh, my God.

That's a tuna. That's incredible. What a big animal Jesus I mean that think of the speed those things get so big they die off because they can't get enough food That's incredible. They just eat and eat and eat. That's that's their whole life is spent hunting. I mean they are like, you know vicious What is the biggest one ever? I have no idea. We've got to find out now. Biggest tuna ever caught.

It's got to be. That one was what? 900 what? It's got to be maybe 12, 1300 pounds I would think. Let's see. Let's see. World record tuna weight. They're so cool looking too, man.

Can you imagine if there was like tuna that had four legs and would run down a field looking like that? Glistening and blue and just running like a bullet. Fucking up every other animal on its path. A pack hunting, just eating lions and shit. Could you imagine if a fucking tuna could run on ground as fast as it could swim? That's frightening. I always think of weird shit like that. Like about the fucking, what if parrots were the size and they walked on all fours like dogs? I'm afraid of birds in general because they always hate me.

You should be afraid of birds. Birds are cunts. They're evil, man. They're vicious killers. Yeah, they fucking are, man. They're creepy. They're creepy animals. They don't really give a fuck about anything.

I mean, they're in a real survival of the fittest gene pool situation. Yeah. Birds are just fucking hot. We're just lucky that they're not that big. Imagine if birds were like the size of giraffes. If eagles were like the size of giraffes, they would be eating people all day. There's nothing we could do to stop them. We'd have to kill them all.

And it sounds like a ridiculous thing to say. Imagine the world if tuna could run. Imagine the world if eagles were the size of giraffes. Well, guess what, asshole? A giraffe's the size of a giraffe. Okay? There are animals that are that big. We're just lucky they don't eat people.

Exactly. We're lucky they're not against us. We probably would have never got to this place if they did. I don't know. We're kind of tricky. We seem to have conned our way this far. I really don't think it would have never got to this place if they did. I don't know. We're kind of tricky. We seem to have conned our way this far. I really don't think it would have happened. I think we came along like we were like boxes that became heavyweights

after Mike Tyson lost his prime. We're like finding a gap. We're like falling into this relaxed period. Just tiptoed our way through evolution. It was way easier to survive after those dinosaurs got hit by that rock. After Buster Douglas came along and he thrown Tyson, the world got a little safer.

Back in those days. I cried myself to sleep when that happened. It was a weird thing to see because I watched it after the fact. I didn't see the fight live. I had heard what happened and I still didn't believe it happened. I was watching it. I was like, he's going to get up. He's going to kick his ass. That's Mike Tyson.

Me and my brother both literally cried. I turned around. I cried bawling to our parents. Like, why? Why did that happen? I can remember the last time I got emotionally attached to a fight, and I was devastated when a fighter lost. It was Mike McCallum when he knocked out Donald Curry.

I was a big Donald Curry fan. Donald Curry was the welterweight champion at the time. Donald McCallum, I think they went up to 154. Donald Curry ruined his career because he kept cutting weight down to 147. He couldn't do it anymore. He couldn't do it anymore. He had those fights with, not McCallum, but who was the other? There was another really strong welterweight, a cronk fighter from that era.

And he knocked that dude out and donald curry emerged it's like the top pound for pound guy but then he fought lloyd huntington and he was just too dehydrated he couldn't fucking do it anymore he just wasn't the same guy and everybody's like that's the top pound for pound fighter and that one beating to lloyd huntington never he never was the same again he went up to 154 and then he didn't have the physical advantages that he had at 47. When you see the UFC and you see that, especially in higher weight classes, there's big gaps in between the weight classes. What would you like it?

If someone could allow you to create the optimum weight divisions, what do you think it would be? I mean, you see, you just don't want too many, you know? But I think there would be, we would really figure out who is pound for pound the best, you know, but at the same time, maybe 10 pounds because boxing, there's so many champions,

you just get, you know, it gets diluted. Yeah. And boxing as a sport in general is, well, boxing has a bunch of different sanctioning bodies too. That's where it gets really weird. It's almost weirder there because of that than it is because of the amount of weight classes. Yeah, it's all of it.

It's just all a clusterfuck. Yeah, people don't realize how many weight classes there are in boxing, but it's crazy. They start at like 106, right? I think so. What's like light flyweight? It's got to be something. They start really light,

and they go all the way up to 195, and then heavyweight, and that's the deviation. Like the UFC, the only gap they have that's more interesting is the 205 to 265. Yeah, that's where they need

to put at least, I think, a weight class. Yeah. A 240 or something. And I think also in between 85 and 205 would be good. I think so, yeah.

I could see that because, you know, just make it every 10 pounds. I think so, too. That would work. I think so, too. And I think that a big example of that is between 55 and 170. Especially as you get low in percentage of body weight, those jumps between that one and the 185 to light heavyweight,

those are big jumps, man. Yeah, 15 pounds is a lot of person. Yeah. You know? And it's also you're seeing these guys who are making these cuts to get to 205. Say, like, a guy like Jon Jones. He's coming down from, like, 225, 230. Yeah.

Like, big as shit at 205. And if you're, like, kind of, like, don't want to cut weight, but you're really a 185-er, and you see him, you go, oh, God, no, I got to lose the weight now. You got to be realistic about this. Yeah, and especially because the way the sports have evolved, people get stuck in certain weight classes because they're good for that weight class. And then they try and cut weight or they try and gain weight, and then they end up not having the advantages that they had before.

And they don't work on it or they don't have it at all. They just can't get it. So then they end up getting beat up by someone smaller or something like that. What is it like to be a part of this sport right now for you, like as a top-level professional fighter? Because it's a really interesting time as far as the sport. It's evolved to this point where there's there's clearly like the best athletes that have ever been involved in mma or involved in mma now and the high the level of fighting and

competition is as high as it's ever been before now oh by far but you've had a chance to see it from the outside for a long ass time like what is what is it like for you now you know the the evolution of of the of the the people of the fighters, I think as a country, I think we're getting pussified. You know, kids aren't allowed to get in fistfights. I think it's a rite of passage for young men to get in fistfights, you know, and not jump each other. I'm talking no weapons. Just, you know, just duke it out and deal with your problems. Some people don't want to do that, though, and they don't want to be harassed by people who want to beat people up.

If they don't want to, they shouldn't have to. Right, but how do you stop that, though? Exactly. I don't know. But I'm just saying, but we're building better athletes in the gym, but we have to now, which I get as a good thing, if we want to build a tough kid, if we want to make him tough, we'll build him in the gym. Right.

And that maybe, you know, that is a good thing, because not only is he going to be tough, but he's not going to be a dick like I used to be. Right. Yeah. You know, because like I said, I started out beating up bullies and then I ended up just being a bully, you know. I'm glad you're really honest about that, man. I think it's really important because I think, you know, there's a lot of kids out there that are fighting that watch a guy like you and look up to you. And when maybe they might be on a similar path and they hear that and they can learn from your mistakes yeah i've made just about every mistake there is you know whether it's that or dying of drugs you know drug overdose or whatever or whatever i've done a lot of things

and it's just it's there's so many things that i feel like i can share um and it do i can help one person change that'll work you know that'll be a little obviously i'd like to help as many as possible. But, you know, just try and, you know, especially the people that are closest to me. Like, we got some amateur guys that I'm trying to just turn into super athletes. And they already are, but just get them focused and ready and not make any mistakes. It's very difficult for a fighter to transition from being a fighter to mainstream life, to going back to being a regular person with a regular job who doesn't have those big crazy thrills every few months.

You just have sort of like this weird steady drip of life juice instead of this wild rollercoaster rush that everybody knows you can only stay on for so long. But the thing that I always try to stress with people is that like one of the best things about martial arts is the development of the ability to do something good, to be good at something and know what it's like to be good at something. And then from there, like you knew how hard it was to get good. You didn't start out good.

You started out shitty, but you got better and you got better. And you get that understanding of that is so important for everything. Don't look at like the finish line and go, I'm never going to get there. Look at progress and you can get anywhere. As long as there's not some crazy physical limitation. Yeah, that's what I tell people because they

always turn to me for rehab stories, drug stories or whatever, because I've been to two rehabs and whatnot. How old are you? 29. How old were you when you went through your first rehab? I was 19, I think. Wow. What was it for?

I got caught with some pills, and then I was a pill guy. And then it was just through the court. I had to check in, and I got kicked out of some class things, and they put me in an outpatient rehab program. I got kicked out of some class things, and they put me in an outpatient rehab program. And then I ended up—the second one was before, in between WBC and Tachi when I became world champ. I got in trouble, got arrested, was probably going to prison for three to five for just doing some dumb shit. And I had, I had a record. So me doing anything bad would put me in prison. So I checked myself into rehab and they were like, Oh, good job, little buddy, you know, pat on the head. You

can stay there for six months. And it was a live in. And, and at first it was just escape, just a scapegoat for me not to go to prison, but then it actually helped, you know, the people there helped me, the program helped me to actually getting, getting my, uh, just to just help me get my life together. You know, I had to be sober. You know, and I stayed sober for a long time. You know, and it was good for me, you know. It actually gave me some perspective on life because I was just such a mess for so long.

But isn't it crazy to be a guy who's such a mess and is wild and with like this really self-destructive style of living, especially with regards to drugs and your body. But you're a professional athlete. A high-level professional athlete. I don't know how it worked for so long. Yeah, how the fuck did it work for so long? I don't know. Really, I'm like a cockroach or something.

There's something inherently, I don't know if it's right or wrong. I hope nobody tries to imitate it. Yeah, do not do what I've done. Yeah, learn. Learn from that. Don't do that. I'm a, there's something inherently, I don't know if it's right or wrong. I hope nobody tries to imitate it. Yeah. Do not, do not do what I've done. Yeah. Learn, learn from that. Don't do that. I'm a walking mistake. Go to the gym, bitch.

Exactly. Go to the gym first. If, if I would have spent those extra, I mean, hours that I was doing stupid things, I believe me, I've, I've done calculations to everything. I could have put in that, that, because they say it's 10,000 hours to master something, you know? Right. So I could have put an extra 10,000 hours into jujitsu, an extra 10,000 into kickboxing, an extra 10,000 into wrestling. If I would have done that, because I've been training for that long, I could have fit that in there. I would be, I would make everyone else look

silly. Well, don't you think though, that there's something about you that is the way you are because of the adversity that you've gone through? Of course. I wouldn't change a thing. I'm just saying that. Right. But isn't that weird? It is weird. You know, I just like I would be the motherfucker of motherfuckers, but I'd be a choir boy.

I'd probably go crazy from that because I wasn't doing anything nuts. Yeah, I would. Yeah. And then and then this then this beast would show up now and it would just blow it all. That happens to a lot of guys too, right? They get it instead of on the way up. They get it once they get up. They get there, and they're like, oh, this is too much fun.

Should have never given you money. Yeah, there's a lot of those dudes out there. They should have never given you money, dudes. Especially crazy, wild, impulsive athletes and fighters. Like the Tyson story. The dude got tigers. He had his own tigers. He had the most legendary

stories of spending money. $200 million. Where did it go? Have you seen his show that he does? Oh, his stand-up show? His one-man show. I heard it's awesome. I heard it's incredible. Yeah, I really want to see it. Dana White called me up after he goes, dude, it's one of the greatest things I've ever seen in my life. He goes, it's fucking amazing.

He goes, Spike Lee, I guess, directed it. Is that what happened? Yeah. And they just put it together. It's a fucking show. And it's really entertaining. It's just him, isn't it? Yeah. He puts up a number. It's $200 or $300 million. He puts up a number on the thing. And it's this giant screen. He goes, that's how much

I lost. $300 million or $200 million or whatever it was. $100 million, whatever. It's an insane amount of money. He just spent it. Yeah. He just spent it.

Remember when he bought a Bentley and crashed it and then gave it to the cop? Yeah. Like, taste it. It's all scratched up. He's like, not interested. It's a piece of shit now. I don't even want it. Here you have it.

It's going to cost me $100 to fix. He used to wear furs and shit. He used to walk around like Jack Dempsey style. With the hat and jacket. Yeah, like Jack Johnson. When Jack Johnson was a heavyweight champ and was hanging out with all these white chicks. Nobody did it. They were trying to make those laws

so he couldn't cross the state lines. Dude, people don't even know. Have you ever seen Unforgivable Blackness? Is that what the documentary is called? What is the documentary called? I need to quote it because it's an amazing documentary. Just Blackness, Jack Johnson. Boy, am I going to jail if I fucking do a Google search on my shit.

Yeah, I don't remember who made it. I want to say it was Ken Burns. Because, you know, he does a lot of those. Unforgivable Blackness. That's what it's called um is it ken burns i don't know if i saw it it is ken burns perfect i knew it but i saw it pretty recently oh it's amazing it's amazing it's incredible i mean you got people don't realize what a bad motherfucker this guy was and what incredible racism he encountered like the racism that fighters encountered today or people encountered today like here's a perfect example the recent thing with oprah winfrey do you

know about this thing no it's you know they should have done it she went to a store in switzerland or some shit is that where it was yeah and um she there was a purse it was a very expensive purse yeah and she asked to see it and the store clerk said oh you can't afford that purse you don't even want to look at it we should you should look at something less money and oprah was like oh shit really okay that's the kind of racism yeah that oprah has to experience in 2013 what jack johnson experiences like it's like to these people They wanted him dead and slavery had just ended like inside of their lifetime 1865 So you're dealing with just a few decades later and all of a sudden there's this dude just knocking white dudes senseless and taking these white chicks and impaling them on this

fucking super dick the likes of which white women had never seen before. And they were just following him around and falling out of his car while he's driving down the street. I mean, he was like the first black guy ever with a dope car. Exactly. To cross that border and just kill it. And he just did it like, fuck you.

What are you going to do about it? He would take them across state lines. He would try to get them for all kinds of shit. Transporting white women across dirt lines that they drove. The government was after you for sleeping with white women. Yeah. You're winning, sir. High five.

It's a sad, sad movie. And then at the end when he throws a fight, you could tell he throws a fight. No, it wasn't Jess Willard. Who was it that he threw? I don't remember. I don't remember. But I don't want to tell you, in fact, even if I you should watch it go get it it's an amazing documentary and it's just you see we see like like those old Jack Johnson fights or um you see um Jack Dempsey's old fights

like boy you're dealing with a totally different kind of human being back then it was a lot different they were animals yeah they They, they, they're, they're, I think we're slowly losing that, that, that piece of us. Yeah. You know, with whatever, whatever is it, that's everything. Everything is taking it away from us, but we're slowly losing that killer instinct. Well, you know, it's funny that Tyson latched on to the Jack Dempsey. Jack Dempsey was like one of his like main heroes and his main idols for that style of fighting that just ferocious, mauling style.

And Tyson sort of recognized that he was a throwback. I mean, you think about that in the 80s. And then you look at, like, Jack Dempsey was doing it when there was no TVs. They found out about fights from the radio. Yeah, he was doing that exact thing that long ago. You were either there in person or you were listening to guys talk talk Jack Dempsey with a left Jack Dempsey. He's down And it's I mean, I guess yeah, I guess it was it was all word of mouth You know, it was all back then it had to have been did you see that a photo that somebody posted on the underground? the other day of a fight from

1913. Did you see that shit? I don't think so. Was it MMA or boxing? Do you know that? Can you find it? Do you know it? It's on my Instagram. If you go to my Instagram, it's a dude named Irish Roddy.

It's a boxing match. And it's a boxing match from 1913 that they've turned into a color image they've processed it and and made it uh true to life it's fucking incredible i'll pull it up here for you look at this shit look at that picture holy shit yeah holy shit is right it's incredible yeah that was back when they used to fight like 50 fucking rounds. Yeah. Right? I mean, didn't they have like some crazy fights back then?

What was the most amount of rounds you think anybody ever fought back in those days? Probably 50 or 60. What the fuck? I mean, those guys look like they're on the verge of beating each other to death. Very close. But I've seen some UFC fights that look like that too. Joe Stevenson and BJ Penn. The end of that fight looked like Joe Stevenson got murdered.

Yes. I mean, especially those forehead cuts. Forehead cuts are responsible for some of the craziest, most ridiculous scenes in the Octagon ever. What did Bigfoot Silva's manager say? His head is well irrigated? It's just squirting blood out of his giant noggin? Yeah. No shit.

That was a crazy one. Longest boxing match ever. Let's find out. Match ever. Boy, I'm good at typing. What was the longest boxing match in history? Oh my God.

A boxing match lasted seven hours. How many... I can't do the math. What the fuck is that? Is that real? Oh my God. Listen to this.

The longest boxing match ever took place in New Orleans on April 6th of 1893. The match was between Andy Bowen and Jack Burke, both of whom claimed the lightweight title after the reigning champ Jack McAuliffe. Oliphie. Oliphie. Jack McAuliffe retired. The winner Olify. Jack McAulify retired. The winner of this take-all purse was set at $2,500. And in order to decide who is really the new champion,

the match was set to fought to a finish. They fought to a finish. I like that. All through the contest, fighters went at each other, aggressively pounding each other with their gloves, inflicting and sustaining tremendous punishment. That read like someone wrote it with their pants off inflicting and sustaining tremendous punishment. That read like someone wrote it with their pants off.

Just vigorously masturbating. Wield up and shaved. Three minute rounds wore off. Oh my god, they went to 111 rounds. Both fighters, dazed and weary, gave up and did not

come out of their corner. Pussies. Well, you can't fight 112th round. One more round. There had to be one guy telling them, just get up, Rocky, and you'll win. All that. What's that? Guinness says it's 276 rounds in 1825.

Ah, but that's English people lying. Mate, we've had it much longer than that. Our endurance is superior. We have proper boxing training. That sounded more South African.

So maybe they're right, man. I don't know. Whoever fought over 100 rounds is the craziest fucking human being that's ever lived. Yeah, that fight was

only four and a half hours. Oh, that's weird. What are they, like 30 second rounds? That doesn't even make sense. I can't even do the

math. I'm not even going to try. 2,500 bucks. That's weird. What are they, like, 30-second rounds? That doesn't even make sense. I can't even do the math. I'm not even going to try. 2,500 bucks. That's crazy. For the welterweight championship of the world. Or lightweight, rather. That's a good question. It's a very good question.

I bet it'd be, like, a million bucks. Yeah. Isn't that weird? Like, when you hear about, like, economies imploding, and then all of a sudden, like, a loaf of bread's worth a million dollars. That doesn't make sense. How the fuck, what does that even mean? Yeah, I don't even understand how people have billions of dollars.

How does that number even a real number? And can I, how do you, pull out a billion dollars in cash. Let me see. Yeah. At a certain point in time, you have to admit that you hacked the game. Yeah. Okay, you hacked the game somehow, dude. How'd you get $10 billion?

Yeah, this isn't, I don't understand. When, you know, you've got like Bill Gates, you have a submarine. Inside your giant boat. Yeah. You're like, hey, what happened here? What exactly did you do? Where are you getting all that money?

This isn't fair. You have escape pods in your house to jettison you to the middle of the fucking ocean whenever fucking danger shows up. Yeah, you have a constant team of security detail around you. That's like having a bank around you all the time. Bill Gates is worth, what, $100 billion or something crazy like that? But if him dropping $40,000, he shouldn't pick it up kind of thing?

Yeah, that's what they say. If he drops $40,000, it's worth more of his time to keep moving forward than it is to turn around and pick it up. What happened was he just didn't turn around and pick up the bonus I just got, almost, for bludgeoning another man for 15 minutes. If he dropped that, he wouldn't pick it up. It is crazy if you think about how much more difficult MMA is than almost every other job that you have to do physically. besides being a soldier or a cop or a fireman, where you're really putting your life in danger on a daily basis with fires and bullets.

Take all those out. And then ambulance driver, pretty fucking dangerous. There's a few race car drivers dangerous as shit. But MMA fighters are fucking scary one. That's one of the most dangerous jobs you can have. Other than like crab fishing. Those fucking crazy assholes. Yeah, but the...

Deadliest catch guys. Those guys are nuts. They're secluded out there for a reason. Are you friends with Guida? We don't talk or anything, but he's a cool dude. He's a great guy. Clay Guida did that shit for like a year. He went to like test his metal.

Went out and was a fucking crabber. Crazy fuck. He's the kind of guy who would just be like, that sounds like fun. I'm going to make some cash. Cool, okay, I got to go. Stop moving. Yeah, that dude's got some endurance.

Imagine him just on the boat the whole time doing that. I've seen him blow off more energy at a weigh-in than I have from a real workout. Like a real workout like today. I'm going to have some coffee. I'm going to really work out. Meanwhile, he gets more cardio in on the way up to the scale. And he's always fucking like super energetic where everybody else is dried out.

You know, they're cutting weight. And Guida wasn't much bigger than 155. He has ridiculous endurance. Yeah. He's just, that's one of those natural things that he's never at rest anyways. Yeah. He's not. It just it's it's constant it's his rest is active yeah he's never gonna get tired it's a great

fucking guy too yeah great guy very very fun dude to hang out with and he drives like he fights you ever drive with him it's awesome he drives you like alright clay Guido Close my eyes and just hold on. Fucking Chicago savages. Yeah. It's a different breed of human. Is that what it is? Yeah, those Illinois people are animals, bro.

I've never been there. It's cold as fuck. That's true. Those cities where it's really cold and there's a lot of people, it takes a hardy motherfucker to rise above in those spots. Yeah, it wouldn't last. I could eat alive. You're like, growing up here, you grew up in paradise.

Yeah. This is the greatest weather in the history of the universe. Yeah. It's great, but you miss that adversity that you get from dealing with the weather. Yeah. There's like a knowledge that it's out there. Oh, yeah. That we don't have.

We're like oblivious out here. Yeah. We're like, ah, it's sunny another day, whatever. My stepdad, for instance, world-renowned hunter and tracker like said and he's almost 80 years old he's this mountain of a man was in the cia and he's he's a he's a mason and he's just this like that guy my mom you know met him you know being a chef at his wilderness hunting lodge in the middle of bfe and in alaska like the guy i've seen pictures of him with with polar bear He killed like oh, he's just a big mountain polar bear. Holy shit. I actually have a polar bear

I guess not I don't have a house to put it in yet But but I mean it's just it that's like that guy's is just weathered like he don't eat polar bear Do you do you do I don't think so? I think he just just did it to do but the back then's the guy's almost 80 so back then it was okay i mean he doesn't hunt anymore back then we owned black people we shot polar bears whatever don't worry about it it's okay we drove drunk shooting polar bears out the window of the car yeah you you're supposed to hunt certain predator bears though they have to keep their numbers down people don't like that that idea but it does become a real problem when you have um there's like the the game wardens in these areas and the department of fish and game yeah they're very meticulous about keeping track of numbers of both animals that are prey like deer and then animals that are uh they're also predators like

cats and bears and shit like that and they're pretty good at figuring out how to manage that stuff but you have to kill some of them unfortunately yeah i understand people hate that idea because they're so beautiful and majestic but the reality of biology is that there has to be a certain balance of predator and prey because if there's not then we become in danger they are going to come fuck us yeah and nobody likes that idea. People that are like, especially like people who are animal rights people or, you know, people who love animals, there's a lot of people that their dogs

are like their best fucking friends. It's the only thing that they can count on for love. You know what I mean? That's not even a bad thing. No, it's not a bad thing. It's true. So I understand where they're coming from. Like, you would think about a bear

as just like a big dog, but it's a big dog that will eat your asshole, all right? That thing doesn't give a shit about you. Exactly. It wants to eat you. Yeah But it's a big dog that will eat your asshole. That thing doesn't give a shit about you. Exactly. It wants to eat you. Yeah, it's a heartless monster. And for the most part, they're harmless. You don't go near them. You stay away from them.

For the most part, you're right. We're going to be fine. But the reality is when they get to a certain number and they start taking down elk in front of people at the campsite. Scaring the shit out of everybody. Yeah. You ever see a 12-foot bear take out a moose? I haven't either. But there see a 12-foot bear take out a moose? No, I haven't either.

But there's a video of a bear in, I've never forgot this. Pull this shit up, Jamie. It's a bear eats a moose in a driveway. Dude. Okay? Just dude. Imagine. Imagine you're living in Alaska, okay?

I'm 5'8", okay? I stood next to a moose. and its dick was over my head. They're gigantic! I went to Alaska when I was a kid. That place is fucking beautiful. They're gigantic. I mean, I didn't get really close enough to a moose to get its dick over my head, but look at this.

But this moose, which is gigantic, okay, is killed by a grizzly bear in this guy's fucking driveway. So could you imagine? There's a thing that's, oh, you know, whatever, 10 times the size of a deer, and it gets killed by a giant wild dog. That's essentially what a bear is. A giant bulletproof wild dog. Moose are what, like 12 feet tall?

They're fucking huge It's a huge animal That's not the biggest moose in the world And it's a female It's a big fucking animal And what's really crazy about bear Is bear eat moose alive They eat all the animals they kill alive

A lot of times they go guts first They don't even bother killing the animal they just start eating them you look at the size of that fucking thing just ripping chunks off of this moose he's eating the guts now that's what they go for the first but they're they're just they're everywhere up there and it comes a time where the wildlife people determine that, okay, the population is too high. And so we have to manage this. What is that? Well, they dragged it away. Wow, look how they dragged it away.

Look at the size of it. Back that up so it puts it in perspective. Oh, my God. Look at them dragging it away. Look how big it is. You don't realize how big it is because the bear so fucking big but when they drag it away you like holy shit how big is that bear now let's go back to the bear go back to the bear look how big the bears god damn how big

is that fucking bear oh that's a big bear dude literally a fucking 600 pound angry dog with bigger claws and look at the size of that thing now that you know how big that fucking moose is in comparison to a car that bears huge oh fuck god damn fuck living in Alaska my mom was saying when she went to go hunt a doll sheep that of course my stepdad's not gonna tell her but a bear a bear was tracking them the whole time. Of course, yeah. The whole time. And she's like, oh, we're wading through thick brush shit

and just, you know, I wonder why. I started telling the story. I was like, man, that's fucking frightening, having something, something wants to eat you. It's so crazy because you can get there at the wrong place in the wrong time. You can get there when there's an old bear that can't catch moose or deer anymore,

and they have worn-out teeth, and they see you, and they're like, oh, I can catch you, and then they just eat you. And especially when it's late in the season, they say, that's when it gets really desperado. Well, bears will eat their cubs. They get really desperate because there's no food, and they can't catch any fish. There's no salmon left, and they're starving to death.

And so they'll fucking eat everything in front of them. You can catch them in that really intense desperation because they're the last animals that haven't hibernated. The healthy fat bears. That what?

Grizzly Man? Grizzly Man. That movie was crazy. Yes. I talk about that every week. I can't talk about it anymore. Unfortunately. I'm just saying

it was like that. That was the exact storyline. Yeah. The guy stayed way too long. He was like there in October or November or some shit like that when they're supposed to already be sleeping. Yeah, that's a weird thing, man, to live in the presence of those crazy beasts. My favorite shows are all these subsistence shows, like Alaska, The Last Frontier.

Yeah. It's one of my favorite shows. I get giddy like a little schoolgirl when that shit's on. I gotta watch it. I've never seen it. It's these people. They live. It's one of my favorite shows. I get giddy like a little schoolgirl when that shit's on. I gotta watch it. It's these people, they live, it's a bunch of families, the Kitchener family,

and I believe like Jewel, you know that beautiful singer, incredible voice? She is like related to these people. It's fascinating. But these folks live in like a really remote part of Alaska and they have a homestead where they're responsible

for everything. They're responsible for all their own repairs and their equipment. They get all their own meat from either cows that they have to butcher because they run cattle or animals that they hunt, whether they hunt bear or moose. And they have like very specific chores they do. And they have maybe four or five months a year where they're just trying to keep it together, and then it's bundle up for the cold. And their whole life is about preparing for the cold. Yeah. And they're just fucking storing fish, and

every day is just a mad dash, getting up at six, pulling nets of fish in, freezing them, smoking them, everybody's working around the clock, and then the fucking frost comes in the river freezes over to the point where you can drive cars on it

it's gangster cold up there it's amazing I'm a dork for it dude my mom went through it she was living and being the chef at the hunting lodge in the middle of nowhere she was living in Alaska for a while.

And obviously Jim's, you know, I'm sure listening to this, he's old, but yeah, he was up there forever. Wow. You know, I mean, that's the harsh climates are, I don't, I like Southern California way too much. There's something amazing about the people that come from those spots, though. They have a different, there's a different sort of like mentality that they possess. For a pussy like me, it's so attractive.

It's like, wow, this guy. That's a man right there. He doesn't have a bank account. He's got some beaver skins. He's got to trade for gasoline for his fucking snowmobile. And he's driving around where it's 80 below zero and he's running traps.

And that's how he feeds his kids. This guy, there's a fucking show called Mountain Men where this guy takes a plane every winter. He flies. He leaves his family behind. He flies for months and camps out in the woods. He's got these shacks up there and he runs these trap lines and just kills animals.

In the wintertime, it's apparently easier to kill them because they're desperado and they go and find the bait and snap down on them. This guy just takes it all and freezes them and skins them and then brings them back home. He lives out there by himself for months and months at a time. No phone, no nothing. Just a wood house.

A wood house and a snowmobile. Jesus. Yeah. And this part of you is like, could you do it? Could you do it? I don't know. I guess you could if you had to. Like if that was your life, if there was no way around it, if it's like, listen, they

came to you and said, hey, there's a fucking, there's an ice age coming. There's nothing we can do about it. We've got to figure it out. We're going to have to figure it out. We're going to have to about four months out of the year to gather up food. And then it's going to be 80 below zero by the time December comes around. I can't do it. I can't do it.

Well, those people are going to die off because you know what? People are doing that in Anchorage. Go up there. Go to Fairbanks. Go up there. There's a whole city. There's a whole city where it gets so cold that you could freeze to death

while you go to get your mail. Jesus Christ. You could freeze to death. They all carry candles in their car and shit. If you get trapped somewhere, you got to light a candle. You can't just sit in your car. You'll freeze to death.

You'll freeze to death. Damn. Yeah. I didn't know Damn. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's not even, I mean, like, I would love, I want to learn to bow hunt and go kill and eat my food, but I definitely want to come home and bring it home to my beach house. Air conditioned house by the beach.

With the breeze and, you know, the nice, yeah. Did your dad take you on, like hunts and fishing trips uh he came into my life my my stepdad the hunter um later on where i mean i would love that's my goal is to now eventually take him on like one last hunt you know because he's the man's bulletproof but you know i because he doesn't hunt anymore i want to go up to alaska and and and i don't want to kill anything like a bear anything i want to kill. I'm just going to eat like a deer or elk. Caribou. You can get a caribou.

Yeah, caribou. Get something, a doll sheep, you know, but something difficult. But my dad on the other side, we were just all fishing. So we're always hunting something. Right, right, right. And it's definitely, I love doing it. I also need to go fishing again. Do you feel like that that's a primal thing too?

That almost, I mean, not obviously on the same level as fighting, but there's something about the satisfaction that you get from acquiring your own food. It's a very primal thing. It's the most intimate thing you can share with another creature is taking its life. You sound like a fucking psycho. It's true.

If I was a fucking FBI profiler, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to follow your Twitter from here on out, pal. What? It's true, because you a fucking FBI profiler I'm like yeah I'm gonna follow your Twitter From here on out pal What? It's true Cause you get to send it off You get to kill something and eat it No I know

I'm fucking with you Obviously we're joking around But I know what you mean I killed a deer For the first time in my life Last winter And it was a very intimate feeling When you've eaten the liver of an animal

That you just shot A couple hours ago It's weird It tastes feeling when you've eaten the liver of an animal that you just shot a couple hours ago. It's weird It tastes fucking delicious. It tastes unbelievably delicious and The reality is it's the most ethical way to approach it because that animal is probably not gonna survive much longer anyway It gets un-fucking-believable cold in Montana in the winter and a lot of them just freeze to death There's a fucked up picture Jamie. Have you seen this shit of an elk frozen to death standing up? Yeah, you want to know how brutal Colorado gets, bitch? Check this shit out.

There's an elk that they found that froze to death, like trying to cross a lake or something like that, just like standing up, frozen. It was trying to, whatever it was, maybe tall snow, and it stuck standing up, and animals have eaten big chunks off of it, so it is like this freaky carcass of this standing up zombie elk that has these chunks taken out of its body, but it's frozen standing up. Oh, man. You find it? How dare you?

I got it. You got it? Let me see it. This is what's going to freak you out. I'm sure there's people that have some more MMA questions. You're going to fucking stop talking about animals, Rogan. Talk about MMA, you fucking queer. Hey, don't be mean.

You hater, folks. Look at this. Look at that fucking elk, dude. Are you shitting me? Can you see it in that picture? Is there a better picture? There's got to be a better picture than that, man. See if you can find the actual picture,

because the actual picture, the high-res picture, is fucking crazy. This thing's frozen, standing up, and big chunks are bitten off of it. That looks fucked up. My point is, we're such pussies here in California. It's true. It is true.

It comes to the weather. Yeah, exactly. But, on the other hand, it's a great place to develop you for an MMA fighter. Look at the picture. Holy shit. It's even crazier than it looked. I mean, they're eating holes straight through it. Yeah, it's just the body.

You can see the spine and the organs are all missing. And the top area, by the spine and the organs are all, like, chewed out. Of course, the asshole's eaten. Of course. It's delicious. They go right to it. What you gonna do, bitch? They probably ate the asshole before it even died.

Like, oh, shit, what we got here, sorp? I'm a bear. Actually, if it was a bear, there'd be nothing. That has to be probably coyotes or something like that, because they didn't even knock it over or chew through the bone. Wolves would have probably chewed right through the bone. What am I,

a wildlife expert? Listen to me, like I'm a fucking, like I'm the crocodile hunter, like a zoologist or some shit. The fuck, son. So let me ask you

about some upcoming fights because people, people always request this and I never get around to it. When, when fighters are on to talk about upcoming cards because there's a bunch of really interesting fights coming up that people are interested in.

First of all, I've got to ask you, what do you think about Anderson and Chris Weidman, the rematch of that fight? I think this time, obviously Chris can beat him, I think, but I don't think he's going to. I think Anderson's going to blast him quick. Really? I saw a turn in that second round where I thought the tide had completely turned,

and Anderson does the same thing he always does, and it's one, two, dip. It's MMA, guys. Don't know how to box very well. It's just a straight it's one, two, dip. You know, he just, because it's MMA, guys don't know how to box very well. It's just a straight, basic one, two. Right. And he always goes the same way. One, two, and then if you start to pressure him, he goes back and dips to that side. It's the same.

Watch other video. It's what he does. You know? And I don't know if Wyman might have not even known it but all he did was take one step forward I bet Ray Longo knew it all he did was flash he kind of stepped in the southpaw flashed out a jab and then threw the hook

and it was ugly it wasn't beautiful textbook punching but it worked well you know that's that same hook that he knocked Uriah Hall out with he has a weird long hook where he has his arm fully extended and he catches you on the end with his hand turned exactly and Anderson's used to being out here yeah you know and he already got crack coming in so it's he i mean he just got lazy or overconfident or whatever it was and but i i

think that he i would love to see him in blitz weidman just because i want to see anderson do it to somebody because he does it so beautifully. Nothing against Chris. Right. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. He's the most beautiful guy to watch as far as movement. By far, yeah. Yeah.

It's hard to wrap your head around that, how you could like a guy like Chris Weidman and want to see him get fucked up. People don't understand that. It's not what it is. It's just you want to see the performance. Exactly. I want to see a beautiful performance, and no one makes it more beautiful than Anderson. And when it's against a really tough guy, it makes the performance all the more spectacular. Exactly.

I'm a huge Rich Franklin fan. I've always been a Rich Franklin fan. He's a great guy. He was a great champion. So when Anderson beat Franklin for the title, I knew how fucking tough Rich Franklin is. So it made it all the more crazy. When you're watching that, you're like, Jesus Christ. Like, if you don't know how tough Lee Murray is, if you don't know how tough Lee Murray is,

watch Lee Murray versus Anderson Silva. First of all, watch Lee Murray versus a host of other motherfuckers that he just slept with, like, one punch. Like, Amir Renevardi, he slept him, like, tens of... He was a sniper. He had a piston of a right hand. And that guy, different breed. He's an animal! I mean, psychopath. Well, he's in jail right now listening to this podcast.

He listens to the podcast. Is he in Morocco? Yes. Well, I think he's still in Morocco. Probably living in a castle. They probably got a little manhole in his gym, or in his cage rather. Didn't he get some shit pregnant? Yeah, he got a girl pregnant while he was in the cage. While he was in prison. He probably has a little manhole

and he opens it up and it's like fucking Saddam Hussein's palace underneath the gym. He's a crazy criminal character. But he was an excellent fighter in his day, a very dangerous striker. And Anderson Silva just ran it on him. And the way he attacked him so systematically and took his legs out from under him. And Anderson just fought brilliantly and also showed a fucking world-class chin Yeah, you know, which is interesting because this is the first time we've really seen Anderson staggered and hurt

Yeah, and stopped it's never happened before and it's it's it's such a cliche. It's the shot. You didn't expect exactly It's so cliche, but even on a great fighter like Anderson, I mean even on a great fighter like Anderson It's so hard to believe. But it's a shot that you didn't expect. Yeah. And perfectly landed. Point of the chin. Rup.

Legs go. That's it. Lights are out. Amazing. But it's also, I think, in a way, it's poetic that he's the guy who got caught that way. Yeah. Because as much as I'm a huge Anderson Silva fan, and I will never not be, the guy was like a human highlight reel of excellence.

That's how I would describe Anderson Silva's career. Perfection. Perfection. But it's good for young guys to see. It's good for young guys to come up and go, okay, that can happen even to that guy. You can't do that. That can happen even, but you can do that, though.

Sometimes you can do it. Only for so long. Yeah, it depends on who you're fighting too and what's the circumstance you know you know what fight i'm looking forward to man is fucking two this weekend uriah hall and john doomsday howard oh they're gonna slug it out fuck yeah they're going to beat the crap out of each other that's gonna don't know, if you don't remember John Howard, and you've seen Uriah Hall from Tough, who just had some of the most wicked knockouts in the history of the fucking competition. The Ultimate Fighter is like, the highlight reel of Ultimate Fighter,

without a doubt, at the top is Uriah Hall. Oh, by far. Without a doubt. That wheel kick KO, the right hand to make it into the finals. I mean, he's a fucking monster man he is really tough his striking is so but you know who throws fucking hammers doomsday john howard throws a good hammer striker he's real good able to do that and i i think it's ah man that's that's a tough call i'm gonna have to have to go with Uriah, I think. But, I mean, if anyone's going to end up spoiling that party,

it's going to be Howard by vicious. Well, you know, Howard is also only like 5'7". Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's short. Yeah, it's interesting. But I wonder, I mean, he's a thick motherfucker. There's some guys that even especially as they get older in their career, they actually do better when they go up in weight.

You know, I wonder if that's going to be the case where I wonder if he can carry that power, that 170 power. That motherfucker carries that power no matter what. He hits so hard. He's got that kind of hit hard where it doesn't matter if he goes up a weight class. It's probably the guys are going to be able to absorb it better, but he throws some stupid one-punch power. Hall's got a very diverse game too, though.

Hall does a lot of wild shit. Yeah, that's a very... When you get a guy that's very Muay Thai, sometimes that random shit's either going to work really well or it's going to get you in some trouble and you're going to take a fucking beating.

That's true, right? If you miss and you slip and your back is turned and you're just going to get bludgeoned. Especially if you can catch your legs. I think that it's interesting. It's an interesting thing because Uriah has a lot of Muay Thai skills as well, but he also has a lot of traditional karate style, taekwondo style techniques. It's always interesting when you see the clash of those two. I was actually just talking to Leota's brother on the way back from the fight to the hotel.

And it was kind of awkward. He's like, so who do you think won? Oh, shit. And honestly, that fight sucked. It wasn't the best fight, but I enjoyed it. I wouldn't say that fight sucked. It was just, well, I mean, I don't know. I didn't like it very much because I think that neither of them did enough to really win that much.

I mean, it was a toss-up. It was just not exciting to me. Oh, you're so crazy. I thought it was very exciting. Oh, you're so crazy, Ian McCollum! It was just one of those things that, I mean, it had flashes of brilliance. Both guys are awesome. I like both guys a lot. It just was a bad matchup. It didn't work out well. You know what I think? I think that it wasn't as exciting as it

could have been because not a lot of action took place, but to me it was very entertaining because I was watching a puzzle take place. That's true. And I was watching it trying to be solved. I was watching Phil Davis try to hit the takedown. I was watching Liotta try to defend and land shots. Blitz him. And Phil Davis landing shots of his own.

You know, and it's interesting, you know, if it was just a kickboxing match, it would be curious to see how it would have gone down. But you throw in the wrestling, and Davis accounted himself very well on the feet, which I think surprised a lot of people. You look at the way Machida knocked out Ryan Bader. You look at the way Machida knocked out Tiago Silva. Machida's used that sniping style on some really highly skilled strikers

and fucked them up. Badly. Especially the Tiago Silva fight. And Bader, man, he caught him with that one punch coming in. He's a bad motherfucker as far as his counters, and Phil Davis didn't really take any of them full clip. He avoided, he took some shots, but he rolled with a lot of them. He had good defense, took a good shot, showed good chin. Yeah, constantly what he never was squared up

He was constantly was constantly moving back and forth and had good head movement But you know I think Machida landed more strikes Oh, yeah, you know so it becomes a matter of what's more important is the takedown more important? But when you did you hit a takedown what how much damage was actually accomplished during a takedown exactly? Do you feel like there's like a an overhaul was actually accomplished during a takedown? Exactly. Do you feel like there's like an overhaul that needs to be done of the scoring? Oh, yeah. They definitely need to figure this out because there's been so many.

I mean, put my shitty call aside. I mean, there's been so many that are bad. I mean, they need to have a – maybe it's a scoring system where a takedown is this much. But it just has to be thought over by a big group of people to just figure out every angle. Because people are going to keep on getting screwed no matter what. And for folks who don't understand, again, we talked about if you're not a fan of the sport, the State Athletic Commission is the one who choose the judges.

And the rules are in place essentially like piggyback from boxing yeah they they took the 10-9 system so one fighter uh if they win they get 10 points if they lose the round they get nine points and the difference is in a boxing match there's 10-9 and then there's 10-8 if there's a knockdown it's like it's easier to define 10-7 if there's two knockdowns it's pretty easy to define. It's very rare that a fighter gets knocked down but wins the round. Whereas in MMA, you're dealing with a longer round, and you're dealing with all these other variables.

Kicks and takedowns and near submission attempts. If a guy peppers a guy with strikes, and then he gets taken down, but absolutely nothing happens while he's on the ground. He just ties the guy up. How much damage does he take, and is it equal to all the punches that he landed before he was taken down? It becomes a weird situation of what's worth more, forcing the fight into the area where the fighter wants it, whether it's through a takedown or forcing the fight by standing up and landing strikes. By stopping the takedown.

Right. What is more? What's worth more? Is it a takedown or defending yourself and attacking from the guard and getting a near submission? If a guy takes you down, but you almost get him in a triangle, does a judge really know how to score that correctly?

It gets tricky, right? Especially not some random person who got their job just because they know someone who works there. I'm sure they teach them some stuff, but my take on it has always been there's so many fans out there that would love that gig. And they're like huge fans of

MMA and would do a good job. A much better job. Yeah. I think it should be like a Yelp thing. An internet Yelp thing. We should do that at the UFC from now on. We should do online vote. Give them an opportunity for an online MetroPCS vote. MetroPCS. Let's make this happen. Maybe a Bud Light vote.

Bud Light doesn't like us anymore. The Culinary Union got rid of him. I think it's Bud Light. Or is it Miller? Whoever it was. I don't know. Overeem and Browns this weekend too, man. I want Travis to win because I'm friends with him.

But can he? I mean, Overeem's too cocky. You know, maybe, you know, we saw that in the Silva fight. He got knocked out. He's a better fighter, technically, than I think just about anyone in the heavyweight division, if you break down just about each aspect.

But I don't know if it's he's lazy or what it is. He gas out. It's just there's something wrong with him. Well, I think he also has to deal with his hormones. I mean, there's a reality of that. Yeah, let's be honest here. Yeah, you can't not talk about him. Well, I think he also has to deal with his hormones. Yeah, of course. There's a reality of that. Let's be honest here. Yeah, you can't not talk about that. Yeah, exactly.

He had a completely different shape to his body when he came back after testing positive for testosterone. So when you do that, you know, I mean, and I have no reason to believe that he didn't accidentally get this injection by this doctor who was going to fix his shoulder. It might have happened that way. Or it might have been that in Pride and these other organizations and K1, you could get away with doing things. And then when you get off those things, the problem is your body doesn't exactly know what the fuck to do. Exactly. Because your testosterone is really low. And so he tested really low for his last fight against Bigfoot. Yeah.

Like almost in like a dangerous area. Like, ooh, that's a professional athlete. And this is like really low. his last fight against Bigfoot. Almost in a dangerous area. Like, ooh, that's a professional athlete, and this is really low. And you're that big? Yeah. It's interesting, and it's unfortunate, because, man, you juice that dude up, and he's a motherfucker. Yeah. He's crushing everyone. When he was fighting Brock Lesnar, and I'm not saying he was juiced up, but let's just say, for instance, if he was juiced up then,

God damn, he looked good and scary. Dude, that fight against Brock Lesnar, he ragdolled Lesnar. He slammed those kicks into his body. And he was kicking Lesnar when Lesnar was just like ultra wrestler. He didn't give a fuck. He was still slamming kicks into him. Kicks and knees into his midsection. Kneeing him in the clinch.

And Lesnar couldn't take him down. You're like, how is this possible? Two 300-pound guys that were just clubbing each other like that. Dude, whatever he was on, let's say he was on nothing. Yeah. That shape that he was in back then, that's the scary Overeem. Yes, it is. That's the Overeem that everybody thought was going to be the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Just wicked ground game, submits Vitor Belfort, wins the Abu Dhabi trials. I mean, he's a motherfucker. He won the Europeans as a grappler, a straight grappler. That's a big fucking fight, man. You know, he's a motherfucker. He won the Europeans. Yeah. As, you know, a grappler. Yeah, as a grappler. Straight grappler. That's a big fucking fight, man. You know what else is a big fight? Travis, excuse me, Matt Brown versus Mike Pyle. That's another very interesting fight.

That's a good fight. I'm going to go with Mike. Yeah? Yeah. I think Pyle's too crafty. Yeah, that's exactly what I think it is. I think that Brown's good. I mean, he's obviously been here forever for a reason,

but I think that Pyle's too crafty. He'll end up getting him a something. Pyle's a crafty motherfucker. He's an underdog, man. Not in this fight necessarily. I'm sure he probably is listed as an underdog with Matt Brown coming off his last fight. But I mean in that division.

He's like a dark horse. He could beat a lot of the top guys. And everybody that trains with Mike Pyle will tell you that Mike Pyle in the gym is this motherfucker. Even guys that have beaten him, he fucking trounces in the gym. It's like he's sort of coming into his own as a fighter. And he's had a long career already. But Matt Brown is a special kind of savage. There's a darkness to

that man's heart when he fucking comes after dudes you could like you could smell the devil in the room when he's beating on dudes i'm telling you man that fight with jordan mian that was a fight to the death that was a fight to the death man i think if i saw that fight that was an incredible fight incredible fucking fight he went after me and Meehan is a tough, talented kid. He's fucking good. And Matt Brown put a salt on him. You smell the devil. You smell just whisp of brimstone as he's beating the fuck out of this dude.

You're like, this guy, there's a certain fury that that dude brings into the cage. He's got that instinct. He's got that wants-to's got that wants to wear your skin kind of thing. All these fucking dudes that went through rehab. What is about... I didn't know he went

through rehab. Oh, yeah, man. He had also some similar near-death experiences with drugs, I believe. Why is Rory McDonald so weird? He's got his own issues, man.

He's got his own issues. But it's... Think about Court McGee. Another another one same sort of situation that dude's fierce man court mcgee is a bad motherfucker and he doesn't get tired man he never gets tired he keeps coming you see that elevation training there you go elevation with weight vests running hills the fucking dude runs miles with a weight vest on he doesn't get tired he's a tank yeah he's a scary dude

And it's the same thing These dudes that go through crazy adversity Even if it's self-imposed adversity Like drugs There's some You guys have been to the other side Is that what it is? Yeah

I don't ever want to go back But you have had like a near-death experience I died But I mean you didn't I died right away I got hit with like three EpiPens in the paddles. Did you see aliens? No, there was no light.

I woke up in the hospital with my brother just shaking his head at me. Whoa. So you didn't know anything. And this was a real overdose. This wasn't like, oh, I overdosed and they let me out that night. No, I was in the hospital for a week. Whoa. Like I aspirated, like I had pneumonia.

Like I actually was dead and they brought me back. Was it pills? Yeah, it was a mix of pills and alcohol and more pills and just other pills and some GHB and some... Goddamn. I just... And I was sober for a while, and I just went right... And I just used me getting a tattoo as an excuse to get fucked up, and it... I literally...

I remember parts of it, and then I remember waking up in the hospital with just like, you know, one of my friends. And I don't know how the hell she got there. Still to this day, I never even asked. Dude, you should stop your story right now and make the rest of it up and write a book about what I learned on the other side. How many dudes get to go to the other side? Just make a dope book about it. Make some shit up. Like I saw the light.

You can do it. You've been to heaven. You came back, man. You can tell us some shit. Just make some shit up. It's true. Shh, shh, shh. Don't tell anybody.

Okay, so you know what? Really want to know what happened? Do you feel like that you have a second chance at life? Yeah, definitely feel like I have a second chance. Did it feel like that, like tangibly? Like, wow, I got to get this thing right. yeah definitely feel like I have a second chance and it's did it feel like that like tangibly like wow I gotta

gotta get this thing right um no because I still fucked up after that you know I still honestly I still

dropped the ball a couple times after that I still just you know I'm running out of time is it three minutes left

I'm a constant threat to myself oh please get it together you're such a fun guy to have around I'm a work in progress I love Oh, please get it together, dude. You're such a fun guy to have around. And that's what I'm working. I'm a work in progress. I love underdog stories.

I love when a dude pulls it out. Like, you fucked it up in the beginning. Gets it on track. I love those stories. Wheels are spinning. Because I think they're beneficial for everybody. I think I'm not a perfect person. I've never been a perfect person.

I've made a lot of fucking mistakes. And I think in talking about mistakes, not only do I get some jokes and relief out of them, other people, you could realize, oh, he sucked at life too. It's therapy for me to be able to explain my story. You're taking it to a whole new level is what I'm trying to say. It's like my story is fucking ridiculous compared to yours. I mean, you fucking died, dude. That's about as fucked

up as you can get. You fucked up so bad, your body said, we fucking quit! And then science came along and shocked this dummy back to life. We need him around. Well, look, man. Look at that. You die, and then you come back and have some awesome fights. It's amazing. Dude, let's do this again.

Let's do it more often. I live close enough where I'll head up here. Close enough. I'll drive a faster car next time. That's what you gotta deal with it. You need a helicopter, bitch. Maserati's not fast enough. Listen, congratulations on all your progress and thank you very much. It's been a lot of fun. You can follow him on Twitter. It's

UncleCreepyMMA on Twitter and UncleCreepyMMA on Instagram as well. I tagged it in a picture I took of us earlier today. Thanks, man. It was a lot of fun. It was fun. Thank you. Thanks, everybody. Thanks to our sponsors, Stamps.com, LegalZoom, Onnit.

Yeah, you know the fucking deal, folks. I'll just tell you. Go to the beginning of the podcast if you want to know the codes. See ya, bitches! We'll be back next week with all sorts of goodies. Much love to you all, and I'll see you guys in Boston this weekend. Woo, woo. Thank you.