The Joe Rogan Experience - #399 - Buck Angel

Episode Date: September 30, 2013

Buck Angel is an American trans man, adult film producer and performer, motivational speaker, and LGBT icon.

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! What's that? What are you saying? That's serious, like, stuff we have to talk about. Like, your sponsorship is awesome. They're serious? I mean, you know what I mean? You have so much sponsorship. It's awesome.

Yeah, there's a lot of sponsorship. Too much, probably. We're probably whoring it out right now. We're probably hitting the whore threshold. You have to do it, though. Well, it helps, you know, it helps to get... It motivates you to do things, probably. We're probably whoring it out right now. We're probably hitting the whore threshold. You have to do it, though. Well, it helps. It motivates you to do things, too. But it's all good stuff. You get paid for it.

Yeah, it's all good stuff. We make sure of that. I've definitely turned down more things than I've accepted for podcast sponsors because a lot of them are just sketchy or weird websites. Well, you believe in your products, right? Yeah, yeah. Everything that we have, I use. Right.

That's the point. Yeah. Or if I wouldn't use, I believe that I would use it. If I had a situation, like stamps.com, I don't use it. But if it came up, I'd use it. Or the website builder. Exactly. You can't build your own website.

Well, hey, man, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Appreciate you coming by. No, it's really cool for you to have me on. You know that. Is it? You know how cool it is.

You do. I you coming by. No, it's really cool for you to have me on. You know that. Is it? You know how cool it is. I try not to. I try not to be aware of how cool anything is. You stay as even, as mellow as possible. Some people are very scared of you, so they won't go there. Ah, man, you know what? I think people are more scared of themselves than they are of other things. But they don't admit it. Yeah, well, there's a lot of that going on, right?

That's a weird thing with humans. It's, we're all, first of all, we're all afraid of the great beyond. We're afraid of the abyss at the end of this journey, which we will all face. Everybody's fucking terrified of that. Right. And in being terrified of that, you also open yourself up to a series of other terrors that you accept because you have the primary terror that's always tick-tocking. And you don't want to you have the primary terror that's always tick-tocking. And you don't want to think about that primary terror.

So you ignore that primary terror with a series of other terrors, whether it's you're worried about homos or immigrants or blacks or Mexicans or Canadians or Russians. It's always them. It's always them. It's always someone who wants to take my guns or someone who has guns. You know, it's either someone who's moving into the neighborhood or there's always people. With that wallet. I mean, there's also the problem of there's too much information coming at us on a daily basis.

Right. You know, there's fucking 7 billion people on this planet and we're just inundated with horror stories. Right. Like all throughout the globe. Constantly. Right. Every day. The grossest shit is the shit that we're going inundated with horror stories like all throughout the globe constantly every day the grossest shit is the shit that we're going to pay attention to the most

the most horrifying stories in the news are the ones that we're going to they're going to get the most clicks so you know the old adage

if it bleeds it leads but I think people are interested in that that's why they do that because people get excited to hear like that crazy bad news or else it wouldn't

be the number one news. Well, I think it's because it's a part of our past, you know? And it's also like what got us to be in 2013 in the first place is by being scared of everything and staying alive. You know, breeding, keeping moving, staying alive, being

terrified of anything that can hurt you. But these things can't really hurt us. They could hurt us if we're there, but we're not there. We're not right next to the volcano as it goes off. We're on the other side of the planet. Yeah, but they're touching on that fear. And then that fear comes up with whatever you just said, any of those above-mentioned things,

and then all of a sudden you're like, ah! Yeah. Right? I mean, I kind of did that when I moved out of the United States, I'll be honest with you. Boy, I would imagine so. Yeah, I was going to ask you if we could talk about that because I didn't know if you wanted to. Oh, totally. Yeah. Right? I mean, I kind of did that when I moved out of the United States, I'll be honest with you. Boy, I would imagine so. Yeah, I was going to ask you if we could talk about that because I didn't know if you wanted to. Oh, totally.

Yeah. You live in Mexico now. I live in the Yucatan in Mexico. That's pretty dope. What happened? Wow. Well, I mean, I was living in New Orleans and Hurricane Katrina hit. Remember?

Yeah. And I was really disappointed with the way that things were going. And I really just saw like, do I live in this country? Don't get me wrong. I'm an American. I'm totally cool with that I like being American But I was really having a hard time with the government and just everything that was happened that really kind of set me off and I was like what is going on in this country and I just started looking for other places to live because I just saw a future that was not going to be positive for me

And what did you see that was not going to be positive for me. And what did you see that was positive about Mexico? Well, the Yucatan, what I felt was that I could go live there and nobody really, I felt, first off, my work in the adult entertainment business was being attacked by that Bush administration. Right. Not a lot of people really know that situation. Yeah. Did you freak out when Max Hardcore got arrested and went to jail?

That was scary to me and I'm not a pornographer. Yeah, did you freak out when Max Hardcore got arrested and went to jail? That was scary to me, and I'm not a pornographer. Yeah, exactly. Thank you for saying that. Because even though you're not a pornographer, that's still something that could affect you in the long run. Well, not only that, it's like, I don't like what he does. I don't like, I've seen some of the videos. It's mean, it's nasty, cruel, weird, torture-type shit. I've seen, he opened up this girl's ass and pissed in it and stuck a straw in it and made her drink out of it.

It's like, it was so, it's so gone that I don't like it. You know, I mean, I think it's creepy and the guy's a creep for doing it, but whatever. But there's a, here you have to understand, though, he's a businessman, right? Yeah. And so he's, like, feeding the customer. I agree with you in the fact that it's not my thing either. Right. But I'm not going to judge.

I don't like to judge. I don't like to judge either, man. It's like I was having this conversation with a friend of mine about bondage and, like, women who like to get tied up. And I'm like, look, you can't deny that people like that. Like, if you're a strong woman and you're kind of a control freak and you run a business and you can imagine anybody ever fucking tying you up, that's okay, but that's just you. Totally. Like, there's somebody out there that loves it.

Loves it. There's people that love it. They live for it. They take pictures on Twitter of their rope marks on their wrists. No, they live for it. Yeah, they love it. They like getting tied up. They like getting abused. There No, they live for it. Yeah, they love it. They like getting tied up. They like getting abused.

There's people that actually enjoy it. And, you know, I guess maybe it's a fantasy thing for some of them. But it's consensual. Exactly. That's the key that people need to understand is that it's consenting between two adults. Yeah. So when you get to that weird area where someone is sort of like deciding what's moral and immoral, it's so subjective.

Clearly it is. I mean, I have played those kind of games. I'm very into that, this leather scene and playing certain kinds of games. But you have to understand it's me and that other adult saying this is what we want. Most of the time it's negotiated. I would never do something that you didn't want me to do to you or vice versa, right? It seems twisted, but it's twisted in our own kind of fun way. Yeah, and what the fuck is wrong with that?

Exactly. That's a weird thing to decide that there's something wrong with two people doing what they want to do that doesn't even involve you. Thanks for saying that. But it's weird that there's a certain group of people that will just openly do that, that will openly try to stop people Stop people from marrying each other just because you don't think that has a lot to do with religion in this country It's sort of organized religion. I need to say it certainly does and what does that embrace that embraces the fear?

The great answer of the fear the fear at the great end of the abyss and if you don't do what we're gonna do We're tell you to do rather, you're going to burn an internal inferno. I'm already there. An internal inferno. Are you though? No, I'm just kidding. It's impossible.

They're there. They're there while they promote it. That's the real hell. It's a strange thing to do to people. I really think that fear and that, if you don't listen to what we have to do, but the fact that so many millions of people get sucked really think that fear and that, like, if you don't listen to what we have to do, but the fact that so many millions of people get sucked into it, what's that?

I have theories. My big one is that religion is and language itself is essentially like a pit stop on the way to the unification of the human minds and that we still can lie. And that's a real issue. And we also understand what what is

convincing and we understand like when words come across well so because you can tell me a true story and it can move me and you can get a very powerful reaction out of me you can fabricate a story and say it as if it was true and get that exact same reaction because we can't read minds yet. So because of this weird sort of adolescent stage that we have right now that we exist in, where we're not quite evolved enough where we can read each other's minds, but we share a form of telepathy, communication with our nonverbal telepathy. It's basically, if we're honest, you're explaining to me, and I'm kind of getting a sense through the words and the definitions that I've got in my head of those words. I'm kind of getting a sense of what you're

saying. So I'm reading and you can tell me stories about your past. You can express to me how you feel about things currently. You're going to see it from your point of view, as long as you're being honest. But when you start all of a sudden realizing that you don't have to be honest, and then realizing that you can kind of manipulate things. And what is the quintessential preacher? It's a fire and brimstone man who speaks like no one you know. Someone who speaks from the word of God and stands on that stage and knows, looks you in the eye and the spirit of the Lord moves me. And they talk like a way that you never talked. And it's so enforced and powerful that it

just it's just a power thing it just becomes a power thing it becomes the ability to manipulate and to move people with these lies and so it's a specific kind of person yeah because I don't get manipulated by it and neither do you right but I could have I did when I was young when I was really young I mean I was I went to Catholic school when I was in first grade and that's what cured me of it I had an evil Catholic school Catholic school when I was in first grade, and that's what cured me of it. I had an evil Catholic school nun, and the school was just so dark and just a void of happiness. There was no happiness.

It was empty. It was just a depressing. I mean, it made me worry about the future of life. Like, before I went to that school, I was like a happy kid. I thought that life was going to be fun. Before I went to that school, I was a happy kid. I thought that life was going to be fun. And just one year with that cunt and all the other evil fucks that were running that school and just seeing kids get beaten. How old were you?

I was six. And you felt that at six years old? Do you remember that? Very clearly. Wow. Very clearly that religion was horseshit. Wow. Right away, I was like, oh, this is all bullshit.

This isn't real. These are all crazy people. Because I could tell, being six, that these were all just a bunch of maniacs. This evil lady who liked to yell and scream at kids. She used to, like, scare the shit out of you. Tell you that she's going to make you sit on a nail. She's going to make you sit in the closet on a nail. And you better bring your pillow because you're going sleep here you're not you're never going home like

she knew you wanted to get out of there so she would torch you and tell you you're never going home that kind that's like on see that is weird weirdness that is like unconsensual yeah that's a good way of looking at yeah yeah but I think it started out with that. It probably started out, if you really think about how much is good in Christianity, love your brother, treat others as if they were yourself, the core tenets of Christianity about just the work of Jesus, how he always was with the dregs of society and he didn't judge people at all and he tried to heal the sick.

All the things that are positive about it. You've got to think that there's some basis in religion is like things that people learn that really connect you to the happy life, to the good life, which is the life of love, the life of caring for each other. So they figured these things out. the life of caring for each other. So they figured these things out, but then in writing them down, back then especially, it wasn't until the 1500s that people read the Bible on a regular basis. Most people couldn't read it. You had to be a scholar or you had to be someone who understood Latin

or someone who could read Greek. The people of the common folks of the 1500s, that was what the big Martin Luther thing was about. It was Martin Luther was the first guy to create like a phonetic Bible that people could actually read. And they were like, wait a minute, this is not what we thought it was.

Right. And that's what spawned Lutheranism. Like the, the, the, their view of the Bible was completely different than what they'd been taught. And it made a huge issue because the church was trying to

control who had access to that information. Because if you had access to that information, you could tell people, hey, this is what God wants you to do and you have to listen. And now all of a sudden people were able to read it for themselves. And so that took one layer of power away. So we're dealing with today is the most enlightened version of religion the world has ever known. It's still a fucking crippled mess. It's a total mess. It's scary. Yeah, it is scary. It's what runs most of the world, really.

Yep. It's just because most of the world hasn't caught up yet. Just like there was no cell phones in most of the world two decades ago, I think two decades from now, the idea of religion is going to be way, way less common. Way less common.

I hope so. I'm almost positive. It's not the idea of God. The idea of God will probably be more common. Yeah. Because people will kind of understand that the word God is real slippery. You know, you think there's a dude in the clouds that's running everything. But if you took that word away and just express it, not a person, not a thing, but if you took that word away, and what do you, you know, just express it,

not a person, not a thing, but is there an energy? Is there an idea? Is there an ideal, ideal way of living the world? What would be the godly way? The godly way would be almost exactly like they say in the Bible. Well, that's what it's supposed to be like, but they manipulated it. Because why did they do that, though? I think because they wanted to start controlling the masses.

So they made it a different thing than really what it is. It's also, how the fuck do you regulate people? I'm sure, especially if you're a dumb person living a few hundred years ago, it's too hard to regulate people. It's too hard. You get 1,000 people in a room, and every one of them wants to be the king. Who the fuck is going to? If you have some information, they're not going to listen. I got my own information.

I'm starting my, Scientology. It's the new one. I got, I got, over here we got Mormonism is the shit. What you guys are doing, you're trash. Jesus wrote some new shit. You know, and there's always going to be a new ego that wants to step to the center of the line and control the room. And because of that, it's almost like it was impossible to not have bullshit.

But if it wasn't for that religion, if it wasn't for a bunch of people that were put in line and scared, this is a terrible idea, but I think it's probably true. I don't think we would have made it this far. I think people would have been way more barbaric.

Like out of control. Yes. Unless there's only two ways around it. One is mushrooms. If you gave people mushrooms very young from like an early day on, and that would probably eliminate a lot of the need for religion. Well, like look at certain cultures in the world, like the Mayan people. They used all of that kind of stuff.

I don't think that they were like freaking out on each other or had to do like some major religious. Actually, they freaked out each other a lot. The Mayans or the Aztecs? Yeah, they did a lot of human sacrifice, both of them. Well, yeah, but I mean, we're judging that, right? Well, you probably should.

We should do it now. They killed the Mayans or the Aztecs when they built the pyramid of Teotihuacan, I think it was. They killed 80,000 people over a period of a few days. Oh, for you days? Yeah, yeah.

It's some insane amount of people. How do you have so much information in your head? We didn't. You're just like pulling out facts. I'm like, wait. The Aztecs, they killed all the people. Upon the completion of the pyramid, they killed all the slaves,

all the prisoners that were helping them build these awesome buildings. They just cut their hearts out and fucking tossed them to the pyramid. They killed all the slaves. All the prisoners that were helping them build these awesome buildings, they just cut their hearts out and fucking tossed them to the crowds. Right. I mean, that's kind of hardcore, but I don't think

the Mayans were that hardcore. Oh, yeah, they were. Yeah, they had, if you ever go to Chichen Itza, there's actually like... Yeah, I live like an hour from Chichen Itza. Yeah, if you've been to the one

where you go to the temple and there's a fucking big table where they cut people's hearts out on. It's like this demon God-looking thing. Right. And he's a fucking big table where they cut people's hearts out on it's like this this demon god looking thing right and he's holding up this table and that's where they would carve people's fucking hearts out with you know one of those big quartz knives i don't know what the fuck they did with it and there's also a lot of um thought that the mayans much like almost every civilization from ancient Egypt on, they start out really good.

And then everything just fucking crumbles apart as you get several generations in. So is that human nature? It could be. It's also, I think, what we were saying earlier. I think it could be a part of this inability to completely understand each other because of the ability to lie through language. And then also the people that develop these ideas and work so hard to create this culture are not the people that are born into it and enjoy it from the get-go.

It's sort of like kids that are born rich. They develop this really spoiled – have you ever met someone who is really intense and super focused like some banker type character, But his son is just a complete waste product. Of course. Yeah, always. Of course, always. Even in Mexico, there's those. They're really bad in Mexico.

I'm sure. The rich kids are out of control. It's like they're all from Beverly Hills. Like no, nothing. They don't have to do anything. So they have this attitude that everyone is their waiter or everyone is their servant. They have that attitude there do anything. So they have this attitude that everyone is their waiter or everyone is their servant. They have that attitude there.

Wow. Yeah. The haves and have-nots are much greater there, right? It's much the difference between money and no money is insane there. That was something I had to get used to, actually. How did you choose the Yucatan? Because we looked around where we wanted to live, and then we realized it's only an hour and a half flight from Houston. It's like right across the water.

Wow. It's really close to the United States, and because I work so much in the U.S., it's just like I can commute to my work really easy, and it wasn't a difficult situation. Do you ever feel in danger there? Do you ever feel- No. The Yucatan is completely different than the rest of Mexico. It's like its own country, really.

They actually wanted to separate from Mexico at one time and become their own country, but Mexico said, don't even try it. Really? Yeah. So it's really much different there, much more chilled out, less – there's no murders. There's nothing there. Really? Yeah. I live in the safest city in all of Mexico.

It's like we have no violence or anything. No kidding. Yeah. It's like we have no violence or anything. No kidding. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I saw one thing in the news about someone lit up a building on fire. In the Yucatan? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very rare. Yeah, it must be rare because it was the only time I ever heard about it.

Exactly. I mean, it happens all the time in the rest of Mexico because it's completely out of control. If they legalized marijuana, we would, you know, I'm sure. You know Mexico has quietly decriminalized all drugs. Yes, I do. Yeah. It's kind of interesting, isn't it? Yes, it is very interesting.

And they're smart. Yeah. Very smart. Very smart country. The government there is actually a little ahead of ours, I think. Really? Yes, in a lot of ways. I mean, they already, gay marriage was way legal a long time ago, way before us.

When was it legal? I don't know how you feel about that, but, you know, it's like so stupid that we're fighting about who cares who gets married. It's a distraction. I think it legal? I don't know how you feel about that, but, you know, it's like so stupid that we're fighting about who cares who gets married. It's a distraction. I think it's a beach ball. Completely. I think it's a beach ball they toss up and you sort of have to swat. Yeah, exactly.

Whether you argue pro or con, the important thing is to never resolve it. Yes, exactly. I told this story in the podcast before, but I lived in San Francisco from age 7 to 11. And my next door neighbors were these crazy gay guys who used to get naked with my aunt they smoke weed and play bongos so I was around you know gay people at a very early age right and then when I was 11 we moved to Florida which is like the polar opposite of San Francisco and all of a sudden I had this friend this friend my friend candy and his dad was going crazy his dad had a newspaper was like can't fucking believe this shit he

slams the paper down and we were like, what's going on? He's like, these fucking queers want to get married. And it was, to him,

it was like, it was something like that was infuriating. It was really infuriating. And I remember thinking at 11, I'm like, you fucking baby.

Like, what do you care? Like, why would you care? That's interesting. It doesn't make any sense that you would get angry. Like, how does that even affect you, why would you care? That's interesting. It doesn't make any sense that you would get angry. Like,

how does that even affect you? How does it affect people? It affects people because it's a germ that gets planted into the culture. The idea that it's a problem gets planted in the culture

and then it just becomes something that people bring up and they want to think about their own real problems. There we go again, right? It's the same kind of thing. It's the same thing. Everything is everybody else.

Yeah, otherwise it doesn't make any sense. I mean, the reality of gay dudes is just like the reality of dudes. There are nice dudes and there's dudes who will lie to you and try to fuck you. Clearly. And that's,

I used to work out at Gold's Gym when I was on news radio and I've always said that I felt like a tasty morsel of gay stew. Did you ever use the toilet? I bet you didn't. I probably did. I'm pretty gangster.

I get in there. But it's all gay guys. Like, it's probably 80% gay guys, and they're grunting and sweating, and it's a very sexual environment. Completely. You know, and for a lot of people, that's a horrifying place to go, you know?

A lot of gyms are like that, though, in their own kind of way. It's like regular dudes. If you're a girl. They're grunting, even if they're straight dudes. But it's still very sexual in this kind of way we don't really talk about. By the way, you should use straight in air quotes. Straight. Because a lot of those bodybuilder dudes would be happy to suck a cock if they were sure

you could keep a secret. Oh, I see them all the time on there. Are you kidding me? Yeah. My friend Rodney is gay. He was always telling me about how many he would do straight.

Straight. How many straight guys would let him blow them. Yeah, because that's not gay. It's not gay. We just barely pay attention. Barely even know what's going on.

Whatever, whatever. If he doesn't come in your mouth, it's all cool. Yeah. As long as you come in his mouth, it's like it's a wash, it's a push.

Yeah, dudes are creepers. Dudes, period. Look, I'm telling you, I used to be a woman and I became a man, and I'm telling you, I think differently, I react differently, my sexual fantasies are differently, and I get it now. I get why men are pigs.

It's totally testosterone. Yeah, testosterone is what created rape. Testosterone created war, pillaging. Everything. All the above. Everything. And, you know, this thing that I'm doing in my act right now about how the greatest warriors throughout history were gay. This is what a lot of people don't realize in today's day and age where there's a separation between gay and straight people.

There's these sick gay people, and then there's these straight people that are just living by God's way, and we got to keep these gay people from marrying. Everything that happened that got us into the 21st century involved gay warriors. Right. That's awesome. Spartans, Romans, Athenians, Samurais, everyone was gay. And that's one of those weird, regardless if you're gay or not, like if you hate gay people, you literally have to hate.

I mean, not saying that, you know, a lot of the shit of the Romans and the Spartans, they did some horrible, ruthless, evil fucking murderous shit. However, that's what sort of got people into the 21st century. Right. I mean, that's, they were gay people. That's a fact. But it's so weird to me that people are so concerned. It's their sexual preference.

That's all it's based on. So, like, I don't really care who you fuck. Why do you care who I fuck? It's basically that simple, really. And that's what it should be, right? But I think more men are weirded out by it than women are, to be honest with you. It's scared.

It's being scared. Yeah, scared because they might be attracted. You know what I mean? And so when I came along, and, you know, I have a pussy, so guys were, like, attracted to me, but not sure, like, so guys were like attracted to me but not sure. Like straight guys and gay guys. And they're confused like what does that mean? Am I gay?

Or no, I'm not gay because he has a pussy. So that doesn't make me – I'm like, dude, it doesn't make you anything but horny. Just relax. It's not really a big fucking deal. But guys are like – they're always thinking how can I not – if I'm attracted to that, am I gay or am I straight? Well, even that statement, it doesn't make anything in the world. Relax. That's a guy statement.

It's a guy statement. A girl would never say that. No, they would go, well, you know, you have to think about your emotions. What do you have invested in this? I read something. I read something. I tried to read it. I blacked out from irony and logic halfway into it.

But it was the male feminist guide to dating a woman. Oh, my God. And some guy wrote this fucking TLDR, too long, didn't read, massive multi-fucking step way to be a male feminist and date women and how to approach each and every scenario like the biggest pussy whoop bitch on the planet.

Just, and not even real. That's not cool because not all women are the same. Some women like to actually be like dudes and just go have sex and it's not really a big deal and we have to be emotional. Some girls are like that, by the way. There's a lot of girls like that. They don't really want to have all that emotional stuff though, you know, whatever. It was, but it was so specific.

It was so specific as to how you should deal with each and every situation. And how you should call after sex and make sure that it was okay and where we're standing. And I want to let you know how I feel. Do you know that is the easiest way to get a chick to fucking never call you back? Never call you again. She'd be like, you needy bitch. And I guarantee you the guy who wrote that has no fucking idea what it's like to keep a girl in his life. But where does he think he knows that from?

Because he probably has some dominant female voice in his life that he's trying to placate. Some she-demon that controls his testicle strings. And he wants to write to appease her. Look, I've written something in tribute to your vagina. And he gets to read it out. Look, I'm the most sensitive man who's ever lived. I'm more sensitive than a woman. I see your sensitivity coming,

and I check it with double sensitivity. I totally know those guys. Of course you do. The internet mocks them. They're called white knights, and they should be. They should be mocked. Are they called white knights? Yes, just because you can write a blog doesn't mean it's right, you fucks.

You crazy assholes. Well, that's the internet, right? There we go. When the electricity goes off, you will starve to death. You will not make it. You do not have... I was married to a dominatrix. It's those guys. I know them. It's a whole nother world, dude.

What's that like? Very strange. Like, really strange. Like, you can't even imagine the guys that... You know, it's all good. It's consensual. It's their trip, but it's a lot of those kind of guys that are? Very strange. Like, really strange. Like, you can't even imagine the guys that. You know, it's all good. It's consensual. It's their trip. But it's a lot of those kind of guys that are very into that. Well, I have a buddy. My buddy Jim Norton loves that shit.

And we were at a restaurant once in Austin, Texas. And this nice gal came over to the table and started talking to us because she knew that he was into that. And she's a dominatrix. So she started talking dominatrix talk. She was very friendly. She's a dominatrix. So she started talking dominatrix talk. She was very friendly.

So she was telling us what kind of clients she has without revealing their names, of course. But she was saying she deals with a lot of really powerful businessmen. They get to run shit all day. But then at the end of the day, it's, you know, what do you want me to do, mommy? Yes, mommy. Yes, mommy. They call her mommy. That's the one boundary I have is the baby play.

I'm only to everything else. But baby can't deal with the adult baby. I don't even think they were going with baby. I think they were going with complete weak man who lives at home with his mom, who screams at him all the time and tells him what to do. Right. It was like he wanted to be humiliated. Oh, totally. Yeah, piss in his mouth.

Oh, completely. Yeah, all that. That's a big one. And also financial domination. That's also a big one. Really? Where she'll be like, bring $3,000 with you in cash, all 20s. And he shows up with $3,000, all 20s, and she goes, give it to me. And she takes it from him, and that's like the scene.

Wow. That's interesting. I'm like, that's a good job. You know what? It makes sense. It makes sense. It totally does. It takes everything to make this thing work.

There's yin and yang. There's plus and minus. Yes. There's every fucking little puzzle piece fits in together. Yes. And imagine if you have the job of a corporate CEO, and you have to stress out all day long. I mean, that's hardcore. Yeah.

You want to just go have a spanking after that. I couldn't even imagine. And to have millions and millions of dollars on the line, every decision you make every day. Yeah. I couldn't imagine. I mean, I've tried running a television show, and it's fucking...

And that's just entertainment. Yeah, right. That's silly and temporary. You know, six episodes, and you know it's over at the end. And still you're freaking out. The stress is like totally insane. It breaks your brain.

Yeah, I think so. I feel way different when I'm stressed. My decision making is not so good. I'm too edgy. I'll like bark when I shouldn't. I won't think things through. It's like you're constantly dealing with this. How do you keep yourself calm and focused?

Furious exercise. It's the only thing that gets it out of me it has to be like heavy bag like just beat the shit out of a bag do some kettlebell workouts run up a hill like sprint up hills right for me it has to be something where i'm fighting life or death because i think that those feelings of stress that you get those those are life-death-struggle type things because it's incredibly stressful, you know? And I think those, even if it's, like, something as silly as a television show, if it's important to you, you're going to get an intense amount of, like,

energy focused on that. I don't, at least my body doesn't know what the fuck is going on in those scenarios. It thinks, like, we're going to have to fucking fight with swords or run from dragons or we got to do some shit, man. And so unless I blow it out, unless I just blow it out to the point where my heart feels like it's going to rip out of my chest,

then I don't ever calm down. Yeah, no, I think I can relate to that totally. I feel so much more calm after I had a hardcore workout. Yeah. Your body is designed, you know, our bodies, the DNA of our bodies is from an animal that was running

from jaguars 100,000 years ago, 200,000 years ago, a million years ago. There's the same echoes of that primal time when we were so vulnerable and surrounded

by predators at all times, including human predators. You know, I think that shit is just, it's in our system still. What about women?

It's not. Women had to run too. Women had to fight too. Women had to stay alive. Women had to protect their babies. They didn't have to do it as much or often. And of course, the plus and the minus of testosterone is the minus is they've actually proven

that men with larger testicles make shittier fathers. Oh yeah, I did read that recently. It's testicles make shittier fathers. Oh, yeah. I did read that recently. It's incredible. Yes. It is incredible. It's incredible. They've also proven that men with larger testicles are around women who are more promiscuous.

And the more promiscuous the women, the larger the testicles the men in the community will have. Oh, wow. Because they produce more testosterone. So they'll be more crazy. And they'll be less likely to stick around and raise their children. Whereas women who have much less testosterone, they will raise the children. It's almost like nature sets you up. If you're going to be nurture, you've got to be understanding and peaceful.

You want to be a calm thing. You want to be a thing that doesn't have this fucking ready to all the time. Ready to go. You know? And men in that high pressure, high stress situation, like, you know, in the jungle or something like that, are ready to go. And men in that high-pressure, high-stress situation, like in the jungle or something like that, are ready to go. You've got to protect. You've got to defend. You've got to hunt. Things have to be done at a split-second notice.

And that's all the testosterone. It's this weird yin and yang of life. It totally is. And I noticed for myself, though, I calmed. I used to be very much like that before I started taking testosterone. And when I took the testosterone, I became a much calmer, more focused, more happy person than I did when I just had estrogen in my body. That's fascinating. Yeah, completely.

Where people use that Roy rage thing, which is all complete total bullshit. Well, it is and it isn't. I've seen it. You have seen it? Yeah, I've seen it. Without a doubt, 100%. But they have to be taking a huge amount of testosterone. It's easy to do, though.

If you're around men who want to be great big bodybuilders, there's only one way to do that. You have to jack yourself up way above the limits. I've seen people just completely lose their mind where they're like animals. It's like being around a gorilla because they're just juiced up to the gills. But they must be taking like an extraordinary amount of like 50 million tons of whatever it is. I don't think it's that much. But yeah, I know what you're saying. Yeah, well, if you see like that's not the dirty little secret.

It's the dirty obvious secret of bodybuilding. Right. If you see one of those guys those enormous guys It doesn't make any sense the reason why it doesn't make any sense is because you know in your head You have like a spectrum in your head, okay? Well if you're just if you're a man and you have testosterone you lift weights like a crazy fiend you can get about that big Maybe that big if you got super special genetics, but what's this? Just around the circle four or five times.

Right. Like, you know, remember those things at the carnival where you hit and the bell goes up? Ding! It rings the bell. These motherfuckers shot it to the moon. Like, they're so big. It doesn't even make sense.

Like, it's not possible to get there without drugs. The sport literally cannot exist. But don't they, like, it doesn't make sense to me, the whole professional bodybuilding thing, because people are denying taking the steroids. They have to, though, for those sponsor companies. Like they get their money – Don't they test you? I don't know.

I mean, you know, they probably do. But guys can get around it. Even if they do test you, if they test you, it's ridiculous. They'd be – you know, that's the reason why the NBA doesn't test for weed. The NBA doesn't test for weed? No. I think people have been popped for it somehow or another, but very rarely. The reason is the players' union knows that a giant percentage of those dudes are on weed. Smoking weed makes you sensitive

to space and distances. A lot of pool are on weed. Smoking, yeah. Because smoking weed makes you sensitive to space and distances and stuff. Like a lot of pool players smoke weed. Oh, wow. A lot of basketball players love to smoke weed. It helps your sensitivity.

While they're playing? Right before they play. Yeah. Oh, I could never do that. I'd be like, Oh, yeah, I bet you could, though. I bet you could.

If you were a giant black dude and you were good at basketball. Actually, in my last life. Yeah, they love to smoke weed and play basketball. It's awesome, isn't it? Bulletproof coffee. When did you know that you, like, the concept of gender identity to someone who doesn't struggle with it is, it's one of those things where you try to wrap your head around it,

you try to understand it, but you never, it's like, I always say that a man and woman never really understand each other they just sort of they get this thing where they accept that this is how you are and this is on but I never understand I'll never understand what it's like to want a baby you never in my body I never understand what it's like to have my period I'll never I'll never get it I'll never understand what it's like in any way no No, you won't. And being a woman and then feeling like you're in the wrong sex. Yeah. What is that like?

Horrifying. When did you realize it? Imagine if you felt all of a sudden one day you started saying, I feel like a girl. It would freak you out. Yeah. It would freak you out. Oh, without a doubt. Without a doubt.

I really, most, I mean, I can just tell you most of my life I felt that way. But my parents did raise me like a boy, even though I was a little girl. They completely raised me like a boy because I was very much of a tomboy. You know, tomboys are okay. A girl who looks like a little boy and, you know, you're 10 and you dress like a little boy, that's okay in this country. Nobody freaks out on that. It's when you start reaching, you know, puberty. And I started growing breasts and then I start reaching you know puberty and you start

i started growing breasts and then i started you know getting my period that's when everything shifted it was totally okay in my childhood but then people are like uh you need to start treating her like her not like he my parents were completely freaked out because they always just it was like okay it wasn't an issue because i was just like a tomboy and then when that happened i think that's when all like basically everything all hell broke loose you know it was it your folks that have the issue or the community that had the issue your neighbor community their friends kept saying you gotta stop calling her he and my boy name it's a girl you know what i mean and i what the fuck do they care what because gender is such a freaky weird thing for people in our in the world basically a man is this and a woman is that that

your your penis makes you a man and your vagina makes you a woman that's just black and white for most people in the whole wide world that's just how it works and so basically that's not true because it's really how you feel inside your outer presence is just the shell of your Soul and your being really I mean it's to me. It's that simple But of course people don't get it because people always take things at face value They don't tend to get to know you or I mean I'm sitting right in front of you now. Would you say that I am a woman? No, no you have a beard you're yoked and you have a beard

yeah no you're basically a man thank you i appreciate that no problem but you know what i'm saying like the minute someone finds out that i have a pussy it's like no you're you're right well you know what i think one day we that I have a pussy, it's like, no, you're a girl. Well, you know what? I think one day we're going to have a pill and you're just going to be able to be a giraffe for a day. That would be pretty awesome. I really think that. I think that they're going to be able to manipulate the human body to an extent where it would be unrecognizable.

I think we're going to be able to manipulate our genes to look like Dr. Manhattan or something like that. able to manipulate our genes to look like Dr. Manhattan or something like that. Totally. I think the human frame right now is something that we feel like is completely outside of the realm of control. But I think that's really temporary. Just as temporary as we didn't think we were ever going to be able to communicate with somebody in real time in Australia 150,000 years ago. But today, it's nothing.

And that's exactly what it's going to be like, whether it's 150 years from now or whatever. Your body's no longer going to define you. You're going to be able to be whatever you want. Exactly. And people are going to be able to switch back and forth. Which would be really cool. From sex to sex. Yeah, like this month I'm a girl.

Right. Next month I'm a guy. I want to be a black guy. That's already happening, you know. People are already doing the gender queer thing where they're not saying I'm male or female. And then there's like this new kind of thing called they they where they don't want to identify as male or female and they're just they they're just they yeah oh jesus christ that's awesome that's I like that I have a

friend who's a they so every time I see her she used to be a her but now she's a they she always has to correct me because I'm always like saying her or she. And so how do you, what is the pronoun for that? It's very, it's they. Hmm. I know it doesn't make any sense. Hmm. Because it's not them. Right.

So. So you don't ever say he, you don't ever say she. You say they. As an individual, as a they? Yeah. Oh, wow. Try it. Wrap your head around that one.

They just need too much work. They need too much goddamn attention. Well, I'm not. It's all like all these labels and things that people are so obsessed with. Right. That's a real problem. It's a real problem because now it's not LGBT. It's, you know, now it's QIA, queer, intersex.

And they. And T. Now we have to add a T. You have to add a T. Yeah. You see what I mean. What is queer? What's the difference? Queer is more based on your, I think, your sexuality and actually it kind of can

encompass your gender, so it's more of an all-encompassing fluidity with your gender and sexuality where you're not necessarily saying I'm a he and I'm gay. You might be a she and straight this day, but tomorrow you want to be a man and gay that day. People are so specific.

I'm even getting all, like, I'm getting, right? Even me, I'm just like, I'm just a man, dude. I don't know. People are so specific. That's what I'm saying is getting a little bit. Okay, here's the deal. With my education, that's why I always just sort of try to make it as easy as possible for people because I don't really go to that level

at this point. I want you first to understand that gender is complex, but at the same time, it's not. It's really how you feel as a person and that people are understanding that, you know, I can be whoever I want to be and it's okay. It doesn't matter what the world thinks. People are starting to be more open-minded about it. They are. And it's really important that people understand that it's going to evolve whether you like it or not Yeah, well genders complex, but for some people they don't want it to ever be complex because one of the things

That's admirable about a man is a man who doesn't worry What's a bill about a man is a man who's like fucking silent Clint Eastwood and the movies type doesn't give a fuck He's never thinking about sucking dicks just out there trying to shoot people right you know like without a care in the world and keeps his heartbeat a steady 60 you know never really freaks out that's uh that's a part of of being a man is being sure of yourself and if you're unsure of your sexuality you know the you're a vulnerable animal but also i've learned to be very vulnerable. And I do a lot of public speaking,

and I talk about my childhood and my life. And I had a lot of stuff happen to me. I tried to commit suicide many times, and I just hated my life, and it was a total nightmare. And I get vulnerable when I speak, and I have cried in public like that. And actually, it feels really good to go there sometimes. And that doesn't make me feel any less of a man.

I'm a very confident, very sure-of-myself man. But to go there sometimes because and that doesn't make me feel any less of a man i'm a very very confident very sure of myself man but to be vulnerable sometimes lets people understand your story a lot more and lets them come into your life there's nothing yeah there's nothing wrong with being vulnerable it's a silly idea but you're especially for men really i'm telling you especially for men a lot of us men really feel like we're not allowed to go there because you're not a man if you let yourself be. And that's totally bullshit. Well, it is and it isn't. It isn't if you're being a bitch.

If you're crying for no fucking reason. But that's the problem. There's some people that cry for no reason. Like they get a flat tire. I have a fucking flat tire. I can't believe this shit. You're being a bitch. There's a difference Between that and expressing love

Or talking about your childhood Or your feelings Or your dark moments Or your feelings Yeah But if you're crying over your flat tire You're a bitch Yeah I'm driving by

There's a lot of that though It's like it's important to differentiate You're right The difference between A person who's vulnerable Because they're honest about their emotions And passionate You know if you're passionate

Like dude I cry easy, man. I cry. I'll cry at a good commercial. I'll cry in certain songs. There's songs that hit me and I start crying. You know, movies. I hate depressing movies because I cry like a little bitch, you know, because I'm a very passionate person.

No, I see that. I get locked into anything, like if I'm involved in anyone's art whether it's a song or a movie or anything where you're you're you're painting this picture of torture or torment I can relate to that character it's hard you know you feel it that's not but not all guys go there and you know that those are weak guys those are actually the week I think I think you're right yeah they're scared yes they're fake scared yes and if you don't understand what real fear is, when you actually face it, if you're constantly hiding from your actual emotions and pretending you're not scared when you actually are vulnerable,

then when you really are in danger, you're not going to know what the fuck to do. Right. Because you don't know yourself. Right. You don't know what you really are capable of. You don't know who you really are. So when the chips pile up, you're going to just piss your pants and fall apart.

But men are taught that. We're taught that from an early age. Men are not... I really think so. You know why, though? Why? Bitches for dads. There's a lot of dudes out there

that are just bitches. They just fuck some chick, get her pregnant, and then they have a kid. And that kid grows up with a bitch for a dad. Right. That's super common.

Yeah, it is really common. I had a friend who had a fucking tremendous bitch for a dad. His's super common. Yeah, it is really common. I had a friend who had a fucking tremendous bitch for a dad. His dad would whine so much I would want to smack him in front of my friend. I would go over and then the guy would, he was always so confused, like, I don't know what to do. You've got to stop listening to your fucking dad, right? That's the first thing you got to do. Look at that guy.

If you didn't know that guy, you'd think that guy's a fucking idiot. He cries over nothing. He's constantly whining. He's always negative. That guy's a bitch bitch you need to get the fuck out of that toxic environment the first chance you get right you know and that kind of shit growing up this guy had no confidence about anything wow he was just everything he didn't know what he liked he didn't know what to do he had to ask everybody before he did anything he had to ask your opinion he didn't even know who the fuck he was. He was never shown

that it was possible to know who the fuck you were. He was imitating this scared, terrified thing in his house and it took until he separated from him and started having some milestones of his own, graduating high school, graduating college, getting a degree, falling in love, having a relationship, going into business

that he started becoming a man. But he had to break away from this bitch mold that he grew up in. Well, I think, again, parenting is also a very difficult situation, right? Hugely. People are just thrown into parenting. And there is no book. I mean, there are books, but, you know, still a lot of times people are just thrown into it.

There's no skill of how to raise my child or how to teach. You learn that from your own parents and your own parents. You know what I mean? It's just like this long. I was lucky. My dad actually was very, really hardcore. He was a professional athlete. He was very focused. He was very much like that old school kind of guy. But I think it actually helped me to become a really good man because I really learned how to focus and be the person that I wanted to be from that. Well, sure. Of course it does. I mean, that's exactly what we're saying. If you want to be a

man, you follow someone who was a man and you wanted to be a man. Well, sure. Of course it does. I mean, that's exactly what we're saying. If you want to be a man, you follow someone who is a man, and you wanted to be a man. Totally. I mean, it's a perfect example. It's really difficult because life, you do not start out in a neutral point. No one starts out at zero. Some of us start out at minus 30.

Other of us, some of us start out at plus 100, and sometimes the plus 100 people are fucked because everything's too goddamn easy. Right. And the minus 30 people, and not saying me, I was probably like minus five. The minus 30 people that come from a dark background a lot of times have this massive amount of expression inside of them because of that. And if they can sort it out, it's almost like they have more horsepower.

Right. You know, their passion, like some of the great artists as far as music, have tortured backgrounds, tortured childhoods. And it allows them to express themselves in this intense, powerful way that someone who grew up in Bel-Air isn't capable of doing. Exactly. You remember that song, Friday, Friday? Yes. Remember that? Remember that shit?

The reason why people are so mad at that is because they knew that this bitch hadn't suffered at all. Like, you're not allowed to sing. You know, when you listen to, like, you listen to some old-school blues, some Robert Johnson, you listen to... You're like, this motherfucker was hot. They didn't have air conditioning.

They were sitting out there on the porch. He was constantly being persecuted by white people. Women were trying to have his babies, trying to get the fuck out of town and stay on the road. You felt everything in that guy's voice. That's the appeal of blues in the first place. Totally. I live in New Orleans. But isn't that fucked? It is.

It's almost like you have to have a shit childhood to become an interesting person. Well, I didn't have a shit childhood. I had a shit middle part of my life, which actually did help me. I always look at that part, and I always remember being homeless, doing prostitution on the streets. All of that really made me be the person as well who I am. What time did that start? The shit part.

That was later in my mid-20s. I was a professional model at one time. I was a woman, and I traveled around Europe, and then I just couldn't do it anymore because I was doing so much cocaine and drinking and partying like mad, dude, like crazy mad, and I just crashed. You said, though, that when you were just getting your period and you were young, that that's when people started giving you a hard time. Yeah. That wasn't a bad time in your life, though? Well, yeah. I was in high school still, and so then, you so then I started having to deal with the high school thing.

And I'm becoming a girl. And I'm attracted to girls. And I was a lesbian, I guess. But I felt like a guy. And this was 30 or so more years ago. Right. And they didn't even talk about that kind of stuff when I was going to high school. So a lot of stuff was going on for me.

I started smoking weed. Not that that's a bad thing. But when you're not focused and you start doing those kind of things, it just continues to escalate to hardcore drinking and the cocaine. Then everything just started escalating for me. And I got totally out of control for like since 16 to like maybe 28. I was completely out of control. Well, you were self-medicating. yeah there's a big difference right between that and enjoying a little whiskey with a month completely I'm totally cool with all of

that like I don't drink but for me it's just that I don't drink yeah not that I'm sober or do that I just don't drink it right it doesn't work for me you don't like it doesn't work yeah there's nothing wrong with that either right they that thing though about self medicating so common amongst kids that don't feel comfortable with who they are exactly they just decide to just plunge themselves into a bottle or into it's sad pill bottle or because we also reinforce that in society saying yeah you're right you can't be gay it's completely not okay or it's weird that

you feel like a girl or it's a weird you feel like a boy. So we as a society reinforce those negative feelings constantly. You just feel shitty about yourself and you're like, there is no out for me. There's no out. What am I going to do? I cannot live as a woman anymore. The next option is to kill myself. That's why so many kids try to commit suicide now because they just feel no way out of the situation. You felt like you needed to add hormones to your life in order to complete your vision of who you are? Well, I didn't even

know I could do that. I had my change over 21 years ago when there was no internet, really. There was no doctors. I was the first trans man doctor in Los Angeles. He'd never even met a guy like me before. Same with my chest surgery, all of that. These guys were like, okay, but you're basically going to be our guinea pig.

I mean, it didn't even exist. But I knew I needed to change. And so I was willing to take that. Always in the back of my head is, if it didn't work, I'm just going to kill myself. I mean, really, think about how crazy that is. That was always my option. I'm going to try this. If it doesn't work, I'm just going to kill myself. Because that's was always my option I'm gonna try this if it doesn't work I'm just gonna kill myself because that's how life-threatening it was it was like I had to do it

It was life or death for me And this was something that built up over time or was this totally So you had reached a point when you were in your 20s when you were out of control and partying and drinking you were trying To avoid yourself completely and then once you finally faced yourself you're like okay I either have to do something about this or let's see what's next done

or I'm done I can't continue to have people confront me as a woman you know she and I was like a hard I was like a dyke you know like you know short hair

and then people would you know say shit throw stuff at me on the street yeah dyke we're gonna kick your ass like people used to follow me and try to fight. I was a total fighter, dude.

But, you know, like, that was my life. And it was like, you get tired of that. You get really tired of constantly having to fight people's negativity towards you constantly. And you're like, I don't want to be this way anymore. Was it men that would be aggressive? Men, men, men. Never women.

Never women. Always men following me, throwing shit men. Never women? Never women. Always men. Following me, throwing shit at me, trying to fight me, like, you know, jumping me, three or four guys jumping me.

That's insane. Out of nowhere, dude. Where was this at? L.A., West Hollywood, those kind of things. Wow. Like, gay bashing, basically. I didn't know that women

faced it that often. Oh, totally. Especially when you look like a little boy but they could tell you're a girl. You know what I mean? It was like, yeah, it was a nightmare for me. It was like, I'm really lucky to be where I am today because really I should be dead. So I really should be dead in so many aspects of my life. I should just not be here.

So you went to a doctor and you had this idea in your head, like, look, there's got to be a way yeah totally i had seen a documentary with a woman who changed to a man it was from europe or something and i'm like how come nobody told me this is possible like nobody even therapists or psychologists or psychiat when i went to tell a psychiatrist i feel like a man and she was like well you're just a very male identified female what the fuck is that? I feel like a man. She didn't even have the lingo to come back at me like, you know what, Buck? You can have a sex change. Never did anybody say that to me.

So how do you find, like if someone doesn't gender identify with being a male and they're, you know, what do you do? Say if you're a man and you want to become a woman or a woman and you want to become a man, what's the steps you take? Now you fucking Google it, right? Now you do, right? Then I had to go to a bookstore and find this old book and find a doctor in the back that was like for transgender, for women, for men becoming women. They didn't even have anything for guys like me. And I found this book. I mean I was like determined to figure out how to do this, and I called this doctor in Hollywood here, and he's like, well, I never worked with a woman who wants to become a man, but why don't you come in?

And he saved my life, and he's like, you'll be my guinea pig. We'll figure out. That's fascinating that there were so many women that became women from men, but no that became men from women. Yeah, it's a new movement. Now there's a lot more happening.

Was it you? Did you kickstart it? No, it's been happening, but I think I did kind of kickstart it. Take a little credit. Just a new movement. Now there's a lot more happening. Is it you? Did you kickstart it? No, it's been happening, but I think I did kind of kickstart it. Take a little credit. Just a little bit. Why not? So you went to this doctor, and then so he says you're going to be his guinea pig. Yep.

And how does he handle it? He starts giving me very small doses of testosterone. Very. You would laugh like teeny weeny, right? And then he just fought checks me out make sure everything's cool within six months he has me up to one cc of testosterone teaches me how to inject it myself and cease a whole CC CC a week every two weeks Jesus Christ that's a lot you

think so yeah and then we just six months later he's like I want to teach you how to do it yourself so that you can go on with your life. And what an amazing man, really. He was amazing. He taught me. And then I went on and it was like, I was like reborn. I was reborn. It like literally changed, like physically and mentally changed my life.

Do you get testosterone in Mexico? Yes. Now, do you worry that it might be bullshit? No, no, it's not. Cooking oil or something? No, dude, it's real. I use sustenon right now. So you, like, because Mexican pharmaceutical drugs, you can basically get whatever the fuck you want with it, right?

You can get whatever you want. That's kind of cool. Dude, I just call on the phone. I'm not happy about the way Mexico, like, the drug wars, chaos, and it's really sad. You see all the violence over there and it's very depressing. However, there's a certain amount of freedom that comes to having a shit government that's barely in control of its populace. They're getting their shit together, dude.

But now you just call a pharmacy, and then they deliver it to your house for free. They deliver it. Yeah, dude. I like a pound of, like, you know. Wow. You basically self-medicate, do whatever the fuck you want. I'm 21 years into it. I completely know what I'm doing now.

It's not that I feel. That's fascinating. And yeah, and I inject myself and my life just started to change. And then I decided I needed to get my breasts removed. Even though they weren't big, I needed to have a male chest. I mean, that was always my ultimate thing was to be able to take my shirt off. I mean, that's like such a guy thing. You want to walk around with your shirt off.

And I found a doctor who never worked with a guy like me and he did it. Yeah. I thought that was fascinating about Chaz Bono is that there was photographs of Chaz walking on the beach after she became Chaz and he has these big scars under his breasts. But because of the fact that now he identifies as a man in regular publications, they're showing him topless. Right. And I'm like, that is really interesting. Yes. Because you really can't have a problem with it.

But if he was still a woman before the sex change, then it would be a real issue. The same nipples. I know. Right on, dude. Shows you how fucking stupid we are. Totally. It's so weird. There's the same chest.

Yeah. Shows you how fucking stupid we are. Totally. It's so weird. There's the same chest. Yeah. Well, it's also the internet has really flipped the script on what we're used to seeing, what we can see, what we can accept. I had never seen a man that had become a woman until you. Wow.

So on my message board, I have a message board filled with freaks and savages. Sure, you do. And they fucking, they knew about you back in the 90s. Of course they did. My website's been around since 98. I mean, I don't know when I was introduced to you on the website. Years and years ago. But that, you are just a, like a new piece in this new vision of the world.

You know, there's new thing that exists that didn't exist when Father Knows Best was on the air and, you know, the Twilight Zone was shocking. You know what I mean? I totally. Everything now is, there's the amount of information is so much larger. Right. The scope of the canvas. Right.

The size of the canvas of reality is so much larger. And you're a part of that. You're a part of that. I think so. Well, because really what it comes down to is so much larger. And you're a part of that. You're a part of that. I think so. Well, because really what it comes down to is my genitals. And when I went to the world and said, you know what? I don't need to have a penis to be a man. I just went to the world and said, fuck you.

Yeah. I did. Well, there's a really interesting photo of you that's on my message board. On this, there's a thread that someone put up about this particular conversation. And it's you like lounging back, completely naked, smoking a cigar. And it's like, for half your body, it's like the manliest shit possible. This yoked up dude smoking a cigar with a beard covered in tattoos. And there's a vagina.

It's like, whoa. Fucked you up. Yeah, your identity, your idea of what a man is, is immediately challenged. And it's always like, how do you feel about this? Because what exactly are you seeing here? What bothers you? Does this change your view of reality? That's awesome. I mean, I really feel honored to be able to do that to the world. It is. It's an honor in a way to really push the thought of what is this? What is male and female and gay and straight?

What are you? Right. And what are the problems? Exactly. And why do they exist? Do they exist because someone is threatening you? Do they exist because you're threatened by it? Right.

What exactly is threatening you? Do they exist because you're threatened by it? Right. What exactly is the issue? What is your... Because now you have to look at yourself because you before looked at me like a man and then all of a sudden you see my vagina and you're like, holy... And mostly it's males that do that because, you know, men are pretty attached to their penis.

Yeah. I mean, you know, understandably so, but that's just so... Now I'm saying to you you don't have to have that to be a man it's really challenging your own identity in a way yeah it gets it gets slippery but it's oh the slippery thing is not even that oh that's a man too it's like what what is the controversy like not that he's unusual not that he's unique but what bothers people what What gets them angry?

What is pissing people off? They get angry, man You must get so much hate They want to kill me I have to have security sometimes when I go speak Really? Oh yeah, they tell me they're going to kill me if I show up What kind of people?

Can you imagine? What kind of people? Oh, for example, Yale University Yale University They were going to find They said if you show up here, we will kill you So, for example, Yale University. Yale University. They were going to find, they said, if you show up here, we will kill you. Who said this? Students said this? Students and alumni. And, of course, I had to report it.

I mean, I didn't want to be like that bitch, right? I was like, bring it on. And then, you know, people are like, you better chill out, dude. You don't know. They might be there. So I had to report it to the people who brought me in and they had 24 hour security

the whole time I was there well you always have to be worried about that one fucking broken wingnut total wingnut you never know you never know

that's the broad spectrum but I deal with that all the time I don't deal with it as much as I used to I have to tell you that people have become much more understanding

and much more supportive my fan base has grown tremendously in the last I would say five years just crazy what do you attribute that to I think listening to me and seeing that I'm just like a normal guy it's not really a big deal and telling you how amazing my life is and that I'm a positive person and that all I want really is for people to be able to be themselves whatever that means do you think that it reflects a change in society as a whole clearly it has to be yeah, whatever that means. Do you think that it reflects a change in society as a whole?

Clearly, it has to be. People are opening up their minds and understanding that, yeah, you know, this person is happy, so why am I angry about it? Right. Right? I think that progressive ideas are way more mainstream than they've ever been in the past.

Yes, for sure. Way more. And I think it's because of the internet, because of the open dialogue the internet presents. You realize, like, you know, there's a lot of these people, they're not really much different than you or I. They're just like you or I. They're not evil.

There's nothing wrong with them. They're just, they're a different thing. They're this, you're that. You know, they like this kind of music. You think it sucks, but you like that kind of music. Right. But there's so many commonalities that we sort of inform each other of. Because the internet, you kind of music, you think it sucks, but you like that kind of music. But there's so many commonalities that we sort of inform each other of

because of the internet. You kind of go, well, wait a minute, what's our real problem here? Like, is it sexuality? Is it gender identification? Or are we just distracting ourselves with this nonsense? Well, that's a very specific kind of person, though, because as you know, the internet is full of trolls for days. And those ones really are the ones who react and do huge –

and continue to make it very negative on the internet. You know what I mean? So of course we have people like you and your fans and the people who are willing to listen and talk about these kind of things. But then we have the other side that's so incredibly hateful and never wants this kind of thing to be accepted in the world. Yeah, the trolls issue is a fascinating one. Fascinating.

Because really, all it is is unhappy people. Yeah, clearly. It's a huge sea of unhappy people saying shitty, mean things. Oh, they're crazy. Yeah. Those are the ones that say, I'm going to kill you. Of course. They have no life.

They're sitting at home. And again, most of them don't mean a word they're saying. Oh, no, I always say that. Totally. But there's a few that might. There's a few broken ones. And you have to protect yourself in those situations. You have to get secured. If you have wingnuts after you, you must. I'm a friendly guy.

That means you get along with. You are, but so am I. Is it my vagina, though? Yeah, the vagina thing fucks people up. They don't even know what I have. I might have a vagina, too. I've been faking the funk the whole time. Who knows? I think that the angry thing is also because of the lack of real interaction, because of

the fact they're able to do it over the internet. There's no social repercussions. Right. When you look at someone and you say something mean, like you have to be a psychopath. If someone's never done anything to you and you look at them and you say something mean and you see them react and you see it hurt their feelings

and it doesn't bother you, you're a broken person. You're a sociopath. There's something wrong with you. But when you do it on the internet, it's like you can just go, just say something shitty. Yeah, because you're removed from it. Yes, you're completely removed from it. Yeah.

The lack of, but I think that this is temporary. I really think this is like this crazy chaos before the age of enlightenment. And I'm a big believer in progress and I'm a big believer in utopia, utopian ideas to the point where it's unrealistic. Like I have some pretty unrealistic views of the possibilities of humanity. But those are important views to have because I'm very much the same way. I believe that if we have – I'm a believer of energies first off. If I give off positive energy, I always get positive energy back.

I agree. I think that's huge. If I came into this room right now with an attitude that was not like like, cool, and I was just sitting here waiting for you to talk shit to me, me and you are going to have not as good as a situation going on between us, I don't think, right now. I think it would be because I'm coming in with that energy. Yeah. That negative, go ahead and say it to me, dude, energy. Right. Which a lot of people in my situation tend to have because they don't understand that you have to – people do not understand us.

And when I come to explain to you the situation, I have to understand that you don't get it and you already have a preconceived notion about it and you're already judging me and that's okay. It's because you don't get it. So I have to come to it with an understanding of that and an understanding that I need to now teach you. And the best way to teach somebody is to be happy about it and to let you have your feelings. And then hopefully I can win you over with the fact that I'm just a happy dude. And you can say things to me. It doesn't hurt me because it's you don't understand. Right.

That's the most important thing. They're not going to define you. They're not going to change who you are with their words either. But if I'm angry at you and you're calling me like a freak or, dude, that's totally freaky and weird. No, I understand that you think it's freaky and weird because it kind of is freaky and weird. Right. I totally get it. I'm not totally out of bounds with that.

I completely understand that. The man with the pussy is kind of weird and funny. Well, you know the anger thing where people want to kill you and the troll thing where they're hating. I think all that is just misused potential. That's what I think. I think the human mind is incredibly complex, but it doesn't come with an instruction manual. It doesn't come with – you imagine if the human body was a vehicle that you had to learn how to use and how long you'd have to go to school before they would give you a license to operate a human body.

I mean, Jesus Christ. If you were an ethereal being, if you were something that existed in thought only and the only way to manifest yourself in the real world was to get a license to use a body. If the human body was just like a car. Right. Jesus Christ, you'd have to learn a lot of shit. You would have to learn. You'd have to, like, well, we have to find out

how you're going to interact with the other humans. Right. So you've got to understand cause and effect. You've got to understand action-reaction. You've got to understand the powerful benefits of positive energy. Right. You've got to understand love.

You've got to understand insecurity. Right. You've got to understand jealousy. You've got to understand all these waters that need to be navigated before we let you in the stream of humanity. And we don't. We just fucking take all this potential and just go get out of that fucking house and we push them out into the river of the world. That's a good point. And I think that's why a lot of those self-help books or people who teach those way of thinking are so huge.

Because really I think people want to learn to be like that. self-help books or people who teach those way of thinking are so huge because really, I think people want to learn to be like that. Really, and the underlying part of it, people want to learn how to be calm and happy. And how does that person have that energy? Yeah. How do I get that? It's turned to be a big benefit of this podcast. That's one of the big benefits that people always cite is that they have a chance to see a perspective other than the one they've been told is the one that's supposed to follow.

And then all of a sudden they're like, oh, yeah. Like, oh, I don't have to be a dick. Oh, I can, like, take personal responsibility. I can be nice to people. I can look at this as some sort of a weird temporary situation. And the best case scenario is you have as many friends and loved ones and you share great moments during this time period that you're conscious and that's a huge thing that you're doing really because you're changing the way you're changing that way and that way people

think and then those people go to other people yes and then they say the same thing so you're sort of like moving that positive energy along that totally line line of people and it's yeah and it's only positive possible for me because I've got those ideas and that vibe and those those good thoughts from other people online exactly and it spreads and you just got to learn what to focus on and what not to and if you if I wanted to go online and just pay attention to all the people who are trolling I'd fucking run my head through a wall. If I only concentrated on them, I'd go fucking everywhere. If you have any sort of an internet presence whatsoever or say anything controversial, which I have both, you're going to have a massive amount of people that want to just push your buttons.

Completely. And just potential. They're just potential that's misused almost universally. Because there's some people that disagree with me on a bunch of different ideas and there's, that's totally cool. And it's totally cool. I mean, and I expect it. Of course. And it's like one of the things that I always make sure the point in most situations, there's not a right or a wrong in most situations. There's you think this, and I may agree with you, but I might disagree with you and neither one of us is right

Right. It's just this is my perspective and this is your perspective and when people start approaching things like that Then you can kind of learn from other people's point of view You go I see why he thinks it sucks because of this or I see why he loves that because of that right but The the real problem is is when people want you to feel how they feel. Right. They feel like shit. They're hurting. They're hateful. They're just a mess. And they turn my words around, and they say, Buck said this about trans women should do this. Of course. I never said that. Read the interview. But I had to learn how to block them.

Because I did, I'll be honest, I did take it personally at one time. Of course. And I got totally like, and then I was like, okay, well, wait a minute. It's not me. It's not my agenda. It's their agenda. It's not about what I do. And so then I just had to learn to completely remove myself from their situation.

I always say that people like that are like snake venom. You get a little bit of it in your system and then you get immune. And then when the snake bites you, you don't die. Right. You go, oh, I know what you're doing. Exactly. It's just snake poison. You totally get it.

It's really just like that. And it's both on the side of the assholes but also on the side of the progressives. I see progressives going after each other with snake venom, accusing each other of crazy shit. Because of what you said before. You want to put your agenda on someone else, and they have to – if they don't get it and if they're not on board with you, then they're the bad person. I don't understand people who don't understand what you just said. You have an opinion about it, and I have an opinion about it. And it's totally cool.

I respect your opinion, and you respect my opinion. And then why can't we just leave it at that? There's a lot of people that use the vehicle of discourse to try to hurt other people's opinions, hurt other people's feelings, and to score points. They'll, like, shit on people to score for themselves. And I see it a lot. And I'm not talking about someone making fun or using humor or like a Kanye West, Jimmy Kimmel type situation, which is totally warranted. And I think in Jimmy Kimmel's defense,

he's doing Kanye West a favor. Kanye West needs to see how fucking ridiculous he looks. Yeah, because he's not being cool about it. Yes. Totally. He was being completely uncool in that interview and even less cool afterwards It reaffirmed why Jimmy Kimmel should have done exactly

So I'm not talking about that But I'm I get so disturbed when I go online and people who are whether they're feminists or whether they're skeptics or atheists attacking each other attacking people in the community like coming out with Reasons why this person's a rapist because he had sex with someone when they were drunk. Right. And everyone who does that's a rapist. Right.

And they're also taking this weird moral high ground when they do that. They're getting brownie points. Right. They're getting social brownie points while they're doing it. Right. And you see it. It's transparent and disgusting. And it works.

It works. It totally works. You see it. You see them, like, people praising them. Thank you so much for exposing this. That's why they do it. works. It totally works. You see it. You see them, like, people praising them. Thank you so much for exposing this. That's why they do it. Exactly. It's exactly why they do it.

It's shocking. You know who Peezy Myers is? You know this whole thing with Michael Shermer? No. It's fascinating shit. He's accusing this guy who's this very famous skeptic, Michael Shermer, of not even rape. The woman's saying that Michael Shermer put her in a position where she could not consent. And what was the position? It's very ambiguous. The assumption is she was drunk. saying that Michael Shermer put her in a position where she could not have consent. She could not consent.

And what was the position? It's very ambiguous. The assumption is she was drunk. Okay. Because he uses as corroborating evidence another woman's tale where she met him at a party and he made sure her glass was always full and she got drunker than she normally does. Okay. And she's literally using this to corroborate what he said meaning that he got her drunk like right completely removing herself from any personal responsibility from actually drinking being an adult and getting drunk and

somehow or another like corroborating the the story of the other person that he got her into a position where she couldn't consent it's weird sort of there's this weird sort of feminist Skeptic language they use like these privilege a lot. Yeah, that's the new language. That's the new language dude Privilege is a weird one right privilege is a weird one. I had to really learn that oh I get checked on that all the time Dude, I'm a now a privileged white man. Yeah, check on that all the male privilege My privilege white yeah, and they use it to diffuse your arguments. Oh, yes, they do. They use it to diffuse your viewpoint.

They use it to, and it's this weird fucking... So are they saying he has male white privilege? Yes. And that that discounts the fact, so she doesn't have to take any responsibility for it whatsoever.

Yeah, I'm gonna, I have to tell you that I disagree with that. Well, everyone who you have sex with is drunk. I'm gonna talk shit about me for days on the with that well everyone who you have sex with is drunk and now people are gonna talk shit about me for days on the internet

and I don't really fucking care because the situation is this it takes two fucking people yeah it does

well the so what they've taken they've taken a hard stance the other way saying that everyone who has sex with anyone who's drunk is raping them

including women who have sex with drunk men if you have sex with a drunk man so are you raping the man? You're raping the man, yes. No man would ever admit that, though. Of course not.

Men are happy to get raped in that situation. It's so preposterous, and it's so gross, because it's a bunch of social retards. That's the reality. The reality is it's social retards. First of all, you're ignoring the broad spectrum of alcoholic inebriation. Exactly. There's tipsy and then there's fucking unconscious.

Unconscious, that's rape. Just before unconscious, that's rape. Three quarters before unconscious, still rape. Halfway to unconscious, pretty much rape. I mean it gets less rapey as you get more sober but the reality of I'm not laughing about rape.

I just want everybody to know that. But it is true. I mean, I think the genius of the feminine agenda in this respect is almost like a, it's almost a side effect. And that genius is it forces the conversation. Which is important. It is important. Yes. And people who get people fucked up and do things to their body.

Fucking assholes. They're pieces of shit whether it's a man or whether it's a woman and I think that there's a good in that that this argument gets discussed but I don't buy the delivery man I don't buy that PZ Myers guy

I think he's a creeper and I think the way he released that information first of all he's supposed to be a skeptic and the word skeptic if you're a skeptic you understand that the. First of all, he's supposed to be a skeptic. And the word skeptic, if you're a skeptic, you understand that the worst piece of evidence that you can possibly receive is personal experience. Someone telling you what happened. You don't know what they're saying.

You don't know how much of what they're saying. Not only that, he didn't even get it secondhand. He didn't get it from the person. He got it secondhand. He got it from another person who told him. So it's nonsense. Now it's getting totally blown out. person. He got it secondhand. Wow. He got it from another person who told him. Wow. So it's nonsense. Now it's getting totally blown out. Yeah.

Oh, totally blown out. Yeah, totally blown out. This is why I could prove he's a creeper. Jamie, pull this up. Pull up PZ Myers isn't a feminist. There's this video of him at this conference making all these jokes with this woman saying that she would have to have sex with him. If she got this card game wrong, if she got the wrong card.

It's so gross and so transparent that I kind of love when you find a jewel like this because you get to see, well, oh, this is a social retard. This is a guy that sucked with women his whole life, and now he's in this position of power being a professor, so he decides that he's a male feminist. Oh, does he say that?

Yes, he is. And so he bathes in the warm milk of the adulation of all the people that are super progressive that go along with him. Yet he stifles dissent in a very radical way in his forums. If you disagree, even if you disagree in a very polite and civil way with him outing this Michael Shermer guy as a supposed rapist for having sex with an intoxicated woman. Even if you disagree in a civil way, he bans you from the forums. Oh, and he's an idiot because now he's not open for discussion and it's all about him and his idea. Massive censorship.

So wait, so he outed the guy who raped the girl? Well, he outed the guy who he says was told had sex with a woman who could not consent. No one ever says rape, but he uses the word rape liberally after that. And it's a weird thing. He doesn't say the guy's a rapist, but in other posts they talk about rape and that is rape and having sex with someone who's intoxicated is rape.

But the black and white scale of that is so ridiculous. It is. But it's also, why are you responsible when you drive, but you're not responsible when you fuck? Right. No, that's a great point, man. You don't know that you're too drunk to fuck? Right. Don't get yourself in that position.

And I'm not saying rape is okay. Again, I need to say that. But what is wrong, especially a lot of times, women put themselves in these – and I'm not saying they should be raped. But really, the world is fucked up. And getting drunk in a situation that could turn bad is not a smart choice. Yeah, but I don't think you should ever blame the woman for that. I'm not blaming the woman. I don't even like to think that way because I think –

You have to be aware. As a woman, you have to, yes. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I can say think- You have to be aware. As a woman, you have to, yes. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I can say that because I used to be a woman. Right. You cannot put yourself in that situation. I'm totally on the same page with you.

However, I don't think that- But it's not okay to rape. So I know it's a double- I'm kind of saying something really kind of roundabout, but really, be conscious of these things. Yes. Don't put yourself in an environment- It's almost unrelated to this story. It is. It's almost unrelated to this story. It is.

It's totally unrelated. Because this guy, there's no excuse if he did get someone fucked up and do something to their body, there's no excuse for that, right? Right. Whether or not this woman shouldn't have been there, whether she should have known better, it doesn't matter. Totally. But we don't know what happened.

We don't know what happened. Exactly. We don't know what happened. And to call yourself a skeptic. Yes. And to put- That's not a skeptic. That's not what they're doing. What they're doing is getting social brownie points. Yes, they are. They're bathing in the

warm glow of the adulation of their followers. That's the thing is you can't say anything anymore without people taking it and saying you're saying one thing. Did you find that video? Play it. Listen to this. Smoking mirrors. Fascinating. Put it up so we can see it. Do your belly dance. This is the guy. This is the guy with the

beard who apparently is a very brilliant man and a professor of biology. At what university? Listen to this. She made me keep my clothes on. Yeah. This is where this video, some guys anointed him for all these different things. I'm taking off my pants!

We lied, we lied, we lied. We always lie to you, so. Get off my stage, I got work to do. So he's just joking around here. Everything's cool. You know, just being silly with someone. Now this is him dealing with this other woman, some card thing they're doing. Okay you right there.

Purple shirt, yes. You'll do. So he does not know her. Come on not know very clearly does not know her pulling her out of the audience i don't know what that says we can't see it because we're a thing so he turns on the charm okay of course there could also be higher stakes we could say you know for instance if i win this hand i get to kill and eat you. You're gorgeous. They're playing around. They're playing cards here.

Another thing is, if you win the hand, then I would have to submit and have sex with you. Okay, he's just joking around, I guess. But it's very awkward. I would have to submit and have sex with you. Imagine if that was your wife. You win. Okay, look at this.

We'll do the sex thing later. Okay, the brush off, well sorta, it says. Okay, you hear the weird... Okay, we don't need to play the rest part later. So hang on to those. Okay. You hear the weird... Easy Myers. ...buddy in the feminist movement. Okay. Let's just... We don't need to play the rest of it. But that guy needs to shut the fuck up. If you actually said that...

I'm telling you, like, my brain is kind of getting it. It affirms what my suspicions were. My suspicions were social retard. Right. And that is... Those are the words of a social retard. Yeah.

That's an awkward person, tries to make a joke about having sex with a woman. Yeah. But he calls himself a feminist? Yes, exactly. If that was your wife or girlfriend and he did that, you would be horrified. Anyways, I don't care if it was my wife or girlfriend. He's not a feminist. You don't talk like that as a feminist, first off.

And that's just really inappropriate behavior. He's a hypocrite. Oh, clearly. Clearly. But what I was saying before was that even people in the progressive movement do shitty, douchey things like that. Like this guy with this Michael Sherman thing. Right. It all comes from the same place.

It doesn't come from a place of love. It doesn't come from a place of peace. It doesn't come from a place of love. It doesn't come from a place of peace. Even in reaching out to try to supposedly elevate those who are in trouble or who are depressed or repressed or who are shit on by society, you're doing it to prop yourself up, A, and to hurt someone else, B. You're not doing it in a loving way. No way. That's an agenda.

Clearly an agenda. And he found his people that he could totally work his agenda to. Exactly. Which is that feminist movement. That's fucking dangerous. And that's just like religion. Yes. We were talking about earlier today. Yes.

It's the same thing. It's coming from a place of fear. Yes. It's coming from a place of control. Yes. It's the same goddamn thing. And the control is super obvious when you see the fucking suppression of free speech that he puts on his own blogs. The fact that on his own blogs, he censors anybody that disagrees, even if they disagree civilly.

He's a total piece of shit. Exactly. He doesn't even know what he's doing. And that's the thing is with communities, a lot of times they censor our speech and they tell us we can't say. And I'm using myself as an example here. I'm not allowed to say certain things. Because they don't reflect our community. But I'm like.

But I'm a person first. And it is the way I believe. And I think it is important for me to speak my mind about certain things. We all can't think the same way. Like we talked about earlier. We all have different ways we think things should be. Or things. And it's only from my own personal experience.

But within my specific community. I'm not allowed to say certain words or react to certain things i'm not like what well i think for a lot of folks that do feel marginalized or have been marginalized like they've fucking they've hit that like the guy from network i'm mad as hell and i'm not going to take it anymore right so like these are parameters. This is what we'll accept. This is what we won't accept. And in that way, I understand angry feminism. I do, but I'm telling you right now, I wouldn't be where I am right now if I had that anger.

Right. I wouldn't be. Because you wouldn't get in the doors. I wouldn't get in the doors. People wouldn't want to listen to me because I was, and I really have to tell you, a lot of the communities are really angry, and they alienate people like myself who want to further our acceptance in the world.

Obviously, I want to. But because I don't use the same way driving angry force, then I'm the bad person. I'm actually not for that. And I don't believe in that. I believe, like I said earlier, really getting people to understand. You have to educate the people who don't understand us. And isn't it funny that like what we were talking about earlier, like weird acronyms that people use and categories that are very specific and then language like privilege that gets used almost as it's like, you know, like you let them know you're speaking the lingo. Noam Chomsky actually

addressed this because he's a linguist. And he was talking about how they're sort of pretending, like a lot of radical progressives, pretending that this is almost scientific because they hear quantum theorists talk in this really strange, ethereal language that no one really understands. So they sort of use the same kind of jargon in regards to psychology and sociology and in regards to like progressive ideas. And so they're not trying to be understood. They're trying to be outside of the realm of understanding so that you can't question them. But you are going to question them. But in their mind, you can't.

You don't even get it. It's L-B-T-Q-T-F. I know. It's totally out of control. And you're an R-E-M. And I don't use it. So like I don't know if you know what cisgendered is. No, what does that mean? I've heard that. I don't know get it. It's L-B-T-Q-T-F. I know. It's totally out of control. And you're an R-E-M. And I don't use it. So, like, I don't know if you know what cisgendered is. No, what does that mean?

I've heard that. I don't know what it means. It's basically a biological, like you were born in the body that you have chosen to be in. What does cis stand for? So, cis, you have to look it up on the internet. I don't use it, and I'll tell you why. Is it C-I-S, gender? C-I-S, yeah.

So, I don't use it specifically. And I don't, it's fine they use it. I use it because I want to educate. Now I have to educate you on cisgendered when I just use the word biological. You get biological, do you not? Yes. Right.

That's better. That's better. Cisgender in Wikipedia, according to Wikipedia, often abbreviated to simply cis, described related types of gender identity where an individual's self-perception of their gender matches the sex they were assigned at birth. So meaning...

Biological. Biological. Yeah. But they felt a need, and I'm not being rude or disrespectful, but they felt a need to make their own word because you as a biological person or the straight world have made have made words for us so it's sort of like we now have our own word

for you so I'm like that's cool go right ahead but that's not you know for me I need to educate you and if I keep getting watered down you you lose you lose it you know you lose it you're not really getting it do you know about the case where there was a man who became a female and then started MMA fighting? Yeah, Fallon. She's my friend. She's your friend. Of course she's my friend.

What do you think about that situation? What do you think about, first of all, the fact that she didn't tell people that she used to be a man. Right. And got into MMA. I get it. And fought a bunch of women and beat the shit out of them. I get it. And then now that she wants to compete as a woman.

Well, okay. She's a woman. To me, she's a out of them. I get it. And then now that she wants to compete as a woman. Well, okay. She's a woman. To me, she's a woman. She completely changed. Identifies as a woman. She identifies as a woman. Again, we're going to come back to what makes you a man and a woman, right? Now, with fighting, it's not my profession.

It's not my thing. But she wrote me. So can I show you what she wrote me? Sure. And I want you to read it. Sure. So that you can see what she said because of course I knew you were gonna bring this up and I think it's very important that you get it from her okay because for me I can't speak for her because she's a trans woman I'm a trans man well you can't speak for her because it's not you and

also it's not me and also I'm not I'm not versed enough in that world of this of that sport so I can't tell you what the rules. But if you're just going to ask me generally what I feel about it, I do feel that she is a woman, and I do feel that she has the right to fight as a woman. It's like saying that I can't use the men's restroom because I'm not really a man. It is and it isn't. In a general kind of way. Again. Well, why don't you read what she has to say for you first?

I want you to see this because I think it is super important. I think it's a completely valid argument, 110%. Don't get me wrong. I don't have any service in here. What a bummer. Powerful AT&T. You have AT&T? No, I have T-Mobile because I have one of those unlocked phones.

If you step outside that door, I bet you can go. Wireless? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have it. Yeah, Jamie, can you get in the password? So I wanted to know. Let me, since while you're looking for it, here's two issues with it. One that I have is the mail frame, the mechanics of the mail frame.

It is different. Okay. You know, it's different. The mechanics of the male frame. It is different. Okay. You know, it's different. Like, if you're a person who has large man hands and man shoulders, that doesn't go away if you take estrogen. And the mechanics of the male frame are a significant advantage.

There's also a significant advantage in reaction speed that men enjoy. Okay. Ten percent. It's a massive amount. Uh-huh. That's across the board, pretty much. When athletes, there's a massive reaction time difference between men and females. There's also learning the skills as a man, being up to 30 years of being a man and then becoming a woman.

These are all completely unfair advantages that a man would have entering into female combat sports. But you're saying every man is the same body type? No, I'm not. I'm not saying that. We'll get into that. But here's the big one. The big one is she didn't say that she used to be a man. She never told anyone. No.

Not until it came out. And then when it came out, the last fight was sanctioned as her being a trans woman. But the fights before that, her opponents, I've spoken to them. They were furious. They were upset. And they were told that they were bigots by people online. They were attacked. This one girl who emailed me and thanked me, she was

telling me that she was getting attacked left and right by so-called progressives because they were calling her a bigot because a trans woman that she didn't know used to be a man fought her and she was pissed off about it because the guy ragdolled her. Well, I mean, there's so much more involved in this. You know that, right?

It's not black and white like anything we've been talking. Nothing is black and white. It's just not. It's not. And I shouldn't say the guy. She ragdolled her. She beat the shit out of them like a guy would beat the shit out of women. It's hard to watch. Because if you watch the physical advantages that she has over these women, she's not that good. I know when I look at someone who's good technically. Yeah, you're a professional. I totally get it. I understand.

What I'm seeing is someone ragdoll people. I'm seeing her smash these girls. And you think it's because of her frame? Look at my hands. See the size of my hands? Yeah. No matter how many female hormones I took, I would still have those bones. No, I know.

Look at my hands. Small girl hands. Totally. That's a massive advantage. There's a massive advantage in the shape of the hips. There's a massive advantage in the width of the shoulders. But there are some biological women that are her size. You're right. There are. There are a few.

But it's still not exactly the same. The mechanical advantages of the male body still exist. If you have a man and a woman and they're the same weight and they're the same sort of muscularity, there's still a difference in the frame. There's a difference in the shape of the hips There's a difference in the care is the reaction time my frame is still female Yeah, I totally understand that but that said I think I think you have to read what she said because again

I think it's important there are variables though, and there's there's Serena Williams Who's like this exactly of female totally and then there's girls who like there's aena Williams, who's like this super alpha female. No, totally. And then there's girls who, like, there's a woman who's fighting on The Ultimate Fighter right now, who's a very skilled Roxanne Modafari. But she's very feminine. She's very feminine. She doesn't have that fast twitch explosive muscle fiber that, you know, some women have more of. But I think that Fallon lost a lot of that when she started to take estrogen. Maybe.

She doesn't have the testosterone in her body anymore. I am down with almost everything except combat sports. The reason being is that combat sports, because of the frame, the hands, the mechanical advantage, the reaction time, and the consequences. Your physical health, the consequences of fighting, you're getting hurt badly. And if there's an unfair advantage and that person uses that unfair advantage, whether it's taking steroids and cheating or taking blood enhancers like EPO, those are all illegal because they change the field. Now, there are people that are born with more testosterone. It's a natural advantage. You can choose to and not to fight them. But in this situation, we're dealing with a man-made variable.

And I think it needs to be, A, addressed before you ever fight, for sure. And I think fighting four times or however many times she fought in secret like that as a trans woman is very dangerous. Well, I understand your point. I completely do. I completely do. And it's a very difficult, like I'm saying, it's very difficult. I know as a trans person, I guess for me, yeah, okay, so I'm going to give you the example of this. Let's say I was going to go home with somebody and have sex with them, okay?

I'm a huge, huge advocate for disclosure. So I'm not going to, if we're just hanging out in the bar and drinking, I don't need to tell you that I'm a man with a pussy, right? But let's say we're going to go home and fuck. Right. I need to tell you right now, dude, you're not going to get a cock right now. You're going to get a pussy. Right. And like, that is so important to me that people understand that you cannot put that

other person in that position. You know what I'm saying? Like you cannot put somebody in a position of uncomfortability when you bring them home and they think one thing and you do another. So I am big on disclosure. Good for you. I think, I can't speak for this woman, but I think in her case, she wanted to be a woman. Exactly. So she had to make that choice in her own mind. What was more important?

And would people, how did people find out? I don't know. Somebody told on her. Really? She got in trouble. Yeah. But she's legally a female, is she not? I don't know where her...

Well, some commissions will accept that. Like if her birth certificate was changed, she's legally a female. I don't know if that happened with her or whatever. I don't know. I think you still, it's a medical thing, a disclosure thing. I think in some athletic commissions,

being a trans woman is a medical disclosure thing. So let's say I were to start fighting MMA. Yeah. Would I have to disclose that I'm a trans woman is a medical disclosures thing. So let's say I were to start fighting MMA. Yeah. Would I have to disclose that I'm a trans man? Yeah, I think you probably would. I would imagine. It depends on the commission. Because I honestly don't think people are going to make a big deal out of it as me going in, right?

No. Then as a woman, I think it's totally different for trans women I'm telling you they have to deal with this all across the board for the restroom but that's the advantage we just discussed like your small hand right and my giant right exactly if I just became a woman and we had a cage fight right I would I would have a big advantage just right just because of the frame of your friend that's a big advantage I know it's an advantage I know as a martial arts expert my whole life what it life how much that plays a factor.

It plays a big factor. So, yeah, I know. It's a fascinating discussion. And, of course, I do understand both sides. I do. Don't get me wrong. Here, I'm going to read. Can I read it?

Yeah, read her statement. I've been taking estrogen for around 10 years now. I had my GRS, her sex reassignment, six years ago. After GRS, MTFs, male to females, have a lower testosterone count than even cisgendered females. This is regardless of if we take estrogen or not. It's harder for me to keep off fat. It affects my cardio, my bone density, and decreased female range. off fat. It affects my cardio, my bone density, and decreased female range.

At first, he, you, said muscles would be stronger, but he backtracked from that when he found out he was wrong. Did you say that? No, never backtracked. He said my bone density was in female range. He backtracked from that also. No, I didn't. Okay. He found

out, he found that out. What he had been left with is bone structure, which you just said to me. That's what I last heard him clinging on to. She's obviously upset about it because she just says, anyway, he was trying to say that I have a great advantage because of my reach, but my reach isn't that great. I was only one inch longer in reach on my last opponent.

My next opponent is taller than me by about one and a half. No, by one and a half. Yeah. Is it one and a half or 11 and a half inches? It's likely that her reach is longer or same as mine. So that shoots that out of the sky. Her name is Ashley Evans Smith. Wait.

Okay, so then she had me search this video right here. This woman, my last opponent fought was Veronica Rothenhauser. She is about six feet. She knocked out my Ashley, the girl

I'm about to fight, in five seconds. There was like a five second knockout. It was the quickest knockout in women's MMA history. Her bone structure is greater than like 90% of the female fighters out there. Yet nobody is complaining about it. The key thing

is they will probably bring up safety. The safety of female fighters. If safety is the issue, then why not bar cisgendered females over 5'11 or have reach restrictions? Okay, first of all, there's a lot of bullshit there. First, I never said anything about her reach. It's inconsequential.

You weigh in. It certainly helps to have a long reach, but it also helps to be shorter and stockier if you use certain techniques. Kusumar Paul Harris style. Here's the thing about bone density. Okay. Estrogen is what actually causes bone density.

Right. Causes bone growth. It's not testosterone. Men convert testosterone peripherally to estrogen. This is all coming from a doctor who responded to this. Dr. Ramona Krutzit, MD, and as my friend Steph Daniels, a.k.a. Crooklyn, put this article, against cis women, as you will. Um, so, so here you have a man who was on a hormonal blockers to block testosterone, but is now taking estrogen, which is going to prevent osteoporosis. That's how you say it, right? Um, so there wouldn't be

a great percentage of bone density loss per se. Males have a higher bone density and higher mass of skeletons than females, and it takes a long time for that to diminish. Typically, you're looking at 15 years after androgen suppression and SRS to

really start to see significant changes in bone density. So right there, this doctor is saying that she has a male bone structure. So, yeah, we also have to cite his research on that somehow. Yeah, you're right. You're right. But what you're showing at least is one person who's an expert in the field, a board-certified endocrinologist who's telling you that, no, this is not true, and that this bone density issue, it takes more than 15 years, and it's a significant advantage that he would enjoy, or a male to female would enjoy once she became a she, over other cis females.

Her testosterone levels are more than likely in the normal female range, since her adrenals are the primary source for it now. Without seeing her labs, it's hard to say for certain how are they maintaining her levels. Are they keeping them at a very high end or the low end? And are her normal ranges for those values? There are huge normal ranges for those values. Right. So since you're dealing with endogenous or exogenous, is that what you say? How do you say it when it's artificial hormones that you're inserting into your system?

Whatever. You're engineering your hormone levels instead of letting your endocrine system do that. Right. So it's very debatable. It is totally. What are the levels and how is – Well, how come nobody asked for her levels? Have they?

Well, they do. I'm sure they do. They do, especially now. Yeah. She developed fully into a male with the normal musculature and bone structure. She didn't undergo hormone therapy and surgery until she was fully developed as compared to someone who completes therapy and surgery in their adolescence and or early adulthood. Men are completely developed by the age of 22, and she didn't start a therapy until several years later than that. Right.

So there's also other things that she goes over, different reasons, several different, and we don't have to continue going into it. It's a very difficult, because of course I'm coming to it from, I'm a man, so I should be treated like a man, whether you like it or not. Well, you're also coming to it

as someone who's supporting transgender and supporting the idea of gender identity. Because it's my life, right? So it's like, of course I have to understand that. I personally don't understand why she didn't disclose because I would have. I think probably for the same reason why she was deceptive in that letter that she wrote to you about the things that I said. I didn't disagree about bone structure. I think she has a higher bone structure than most females.

I didn't disagree about the strength of her muscles. I don't know what she's, I look at her, she's, that's a big woman. Yeah. That's a big, strong woman.

Yeah. And she manhandles girls in the cage. She beats the shit out of them. Right. And when I found out that she used to be a man, I go, well, that's what I'm seeing.

Right. That's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing, I'm seeing a ridiculous strength advantage. Right. And yeah, there's girls that are strong as shit. No doubt.

And there's probably girls that could beat her ass, no doubt. There's girls like Cyborg that, you know, shit, a lot of guys wouldn't want to fuck with her. Professional fighters wouldn't want to fuck with Cyborg. Right. But then there's also that Cyborg got popped doing steroids herself. Oh, God. You know?

Of course. She actually inserted some male hormones into her own system. Right, right. My point is, if you do want to do something like this, first of all, A, disclosure is fucking huge. And B, you need to be tested. And you need to be tested across the board on everything. You can't just be saying I have low bone density and saying I have low testosterone. We need to know what the fuck is really going on.

And it has to be disclosed if people want to compete against you. And I'm sure Cyborg would have no problem beating the shit out of that chick well the thing is i think fallon comes to it with no uh she's like the first person to ever do this so there's a lot of stuff going on there right so you know it is it is it's a very touchy situation because may she just feels like a woman so she feels like i'm a woman i don't need to discuss this right but she started fighting as a woman. But now it's different, I have to tell you. Obviously, it's out in the open. People know about it.

She has a huge opportunity right now to actually open it up for lots more transgender fighters and figure out how we can change it. How do we change this so it is cool for you to fight and everybody feels cool about it, right? Yes. How do we do that now? That's a real good question. Well, at least now it's out in the open. So now I have no problem with anybody who chooses to compete against her now. I don't have any problem with a woman who chooses to compete against men.

But that's awesome that you just said that. That's like huge for trans people for you to say, I don't have a problem with it, but how do we do it that it's fair? Because sports is all about fair. It is. It's all about fair. I don't care what sport. But this is not just a regular sport. This is a sport that puts your health on the line. I understand that. The reality is she's giving these girls concussions. And the reality of combat sports is not like losing a soccer game. It's a huge

difference. It's a totally different sport. I get it. That's why I get so adamant about it. The reason why she's so defensive about it is she's got to realize that she hurt those girls. She knows she did. Did she actually physically? Fucked them up. Fucked four or five of them up in the first round. Oh, really? Oh, in the first round?

Yes. Real quick beatdowns. Brutal beatdowns. She didn't take any damage at all in those fights. There was one fight where one girl hit her with a couple of punches boxing. She did pretty good. And she got her on the ground and put her fucking shit on her neck and shoved her out. Are you giving her any credit for her fighting skills, though?

They're okay. I know what good fighting skills look like. I mean, she's a decent competitor. So you're saying basically that all comes from her? She's manhandling them. That comes from manhandling. It doesn't come from her. That's what I'm seeing.

What I'm seeing is a huge strength advantage. And that happens with men. And that happens with men. And that happens with women, too. There's women that can fucking ragdoll chicks and kick their ass. Totally. Cis women, as you were. I'm getting you a t-shirt, dude. I'll wear it.

I get that. But that's natural. When you're engineering it, of course people are going to be upset. When you're engineering and deciding, especially when you listen to this doctor say that it takes 15 fucking years before there's any change at all. And that you will have the bone density of a man. I mean, this is a board certified endocrinologist who has no stake in the game. Not someone who's a gender reassignment doctor, which is what I've read all across the board. Positive in defense of this.

It's all been people who are working in that industry. All been people who have a vested interest in supporting the idea that a transgender female has no advantages. Of course they do. But that's fucked up. It shouldn't be a force. I agree with you on that. It's about facts. You have

to always look at the facts. And if you have actual medical stuff there that says that this person has an advantage over that, you cannot ignore it. It's not being anti-transgender. It's not. Do you know who the – you know who Renee Richards is? Yeah, of course. For folks who don't know, Renee Richards was basically just a regular tennis player.

Right. Not that good as a man. Became a woman and was a motherfucker okay she was so good this is way back in the day women trans women had a massive head start on people like you she was actually barred from playing as a woman in the US Open in 1976 76 unless she submitted to chromosomal testing, she sued the United States Tennis Association.

In 77, she won the right to play as a woman without submitting to any testing. And she played between 77 and 81. She was ranked as high as 20th overall. And her highest ranking was the end of her last year in 77 was 22nd. She was 20th and 22nd. It's pretty fucking good.

I mean, it's really- She's a pioneer. Yeah. She totally is a pioneer. She dominated bitches. But you know what? We got to break through shit. Dude, we got to break through shit.

It's how it works for us. Listen, she wasn't fucking hurting anybody. Right. It's a different thing. I get your point. I totally get your point. And I think it's valid. My anger about it, my distrust, there's several.

One, the lack of disclosure initially. Two, in reading her very thing where she's deceptive in her email and she says a bunch of things that I didn't say. That shows me the way her mind works. That's a problem. That's not a good representative of a trans woman. And then there's also the issue of what the sport entails. It entails doing violence as quickly as possible. And that one-tenth of a second advantage in reaction time is goddamn gigantic.

Right, sure. It's goddamn gigantic. And, you know, there needs to be studies done as to whether you become a transgender woman. When does that advantage go away? When is that? Exactly. Does it ever go away? Does it ever go away? Does it? Is it imprinted?

Right. Because the issue of imprinting skills as a man and then transitioning to a transgender woman, this is not a cut and dry issue. No, it's far from it. This is a very complex issue. But what's important is it has nothing to do with heart and love, and it has nothing to do with being nice to people.

It has nothing to do with heart and love and there's nothing to do with being nice to people there's nothing to do my thing my i'm coming from it purely as a a martial arts expert and be a defender of real women a defender of real women who get stuck in a situation where someone might have a real fucking mechanical physical bone structure advantage bone density advantage testosterone advantage a lot of variables that could really lead to them getting concussed. Well, not real women. It's cisgender women, by the way, I remember. Okay.

Using real women freaks people out, just to let you know. I'm helping you here. I'm sure. But really what it comes down to, I think, is safety. Let's get down to the real issue. It comes down to safety. And a very unsafe sport, especially. And a sport that

you could kill somebody. That is a valid point, I think, coming from you. And I'm not saying that I say it's right what you're saying or it's wrong what you're saying. I think it's valid what you're saying. And I think we need to figure out how to make this work for everybody.

Is it possible? I don't know. Does the reach make a difference? It's not a reach. It's her size of her bones. She said that. That's horseshit. It's the density of her bones. It could be the same height, the same.

It doesn't matter because you're weighing in. Right. It's all about the punch, the contact. It's about the mechanical structure of the male frame. It's about the advantage in reaction time. It's about the imprinting of skills as a male for you know 20 plus years and then transitioning to a female there's a lot of issues But what what is huge for me to relay is that I am very sensitive to whatever

Anyone's gender identity is yeah, and I make no judgments on that if it had nothing do with sport, and especially my sport of martial arts, where I'm an expert. I've taught it. I know. I've done it my whole life. I understand the advantages, and they're giant. I've trained with world champion women, and you can tell the difference between a world champion man and a world champion woman. I'm sure.

Even if they're really high level. There's just a freak advantage that a man has. Right. And it doesn't go away that easy, man. It just doesn't. Right. And some women can counteract that. Like a woman like Ronda Rousey, she's as woman as you get and she'll fuck men up.

Right. Legit. Right. You know, like world champion men, she can armbar them. Right. She's legit. But it doesn't mean that it's okay to go into that advantage. I think people are trying to make it a political statement at this point.

Yes. It's a political statement, clearly, which is not actually fair to do in a sport that could kill somebody. And what's fucked is I support the political statement side of it. Of course you do. I know that about you. That's what's really fucked about this. You're fucking having me on your fucking show, dude. You're very cool

with shit like that. But I can't support that. I can't support that because cis women are going to get fucked up. I mean, that's... There already are any. Not all of them. Yeah, everyone's getting fucked up anyway. You know, not all of them, obviously.

But... Do every... Okay, so I have this question. Do every single one of the cisgender women fighters have a problem with Fallon? A huge percentage. I don't know if every one. I couldn't... I haven't spoke to every one of them.

But I've spoke to several in private who don't even want to discuss it, who are with a chain of expletives, fuck that. And one of the things that they always use is man hands. They use the size of hands. If you have a ball-peen hammer and a big nail, it's really hard to drive that nail in. If you've got a fucking sledgehammer and the same size nail, you boom, and it goes right in. You got a fucking sledgehammer and the same size nail. You boom and it goes right in. There's a weight advantage to the size of a hand that makes a big difference.

But if she was cisgendered, would it be? She's not. I know. But that's the problem. The problem is she's not. I don't think it's an argument. Like George Foreman. If you gave George Foreman female hormones and put him in a dress, he would fuck up every woman on the planet Earth.

His hands are like canned hams. Those are the things that don't change. Your feet and your hands don't change. They don't change. Neither does your jaw, which affects your ability to take a punch. But I mean, changing from male to a woman. Okay, right. You're right.

From a woman to a man, my face became all like Cro-Magnum man. You liked it, though, huh? The underthaw. He got excited. You enhanced it with a beard. That's, you know, in expressing something, whether it's on a podcast or expressing something in a tweet or a blog, the full idea sometimes always don't get across. And I've been accused across the board about this, of being transphobic.

You're not, actually. Well, I think it's really normal, it's natural for someone to immediately point the finger and say that, but it's not fair to the subject. Because the subject is very intense. But you're not transphobic. I'm going to say it on air right now. You're not transphobic. I'm not anything phobic. Yeah, you're not.

I'm not racist, I'm not homophobic, but I'll call people on their shit. That's totally different. And I do the same thing. It's completely different. Yeah. And I do the same thing. It's completely different. Well, like I said, I'm friends with one of the girls that she fought, this cisgendered female who got the fuck beat out of her. Right.

And she was like, Jesus Christ, I'm getting manhandled here. I mean, that's how she described it. She didn't even feel like it was an actual fight. She got ragdolled. So ragdoll is when you just like fucking just pull shit across. Like just fucking rag somebody. Yeah, right. When someone gets ragdolled, it means that, you know, like if I fought Brock Lesnar, I'd get ragdolled.

Right. He would just swat it across. Yeah. I mean, and I'm not saying the difference between her and a female is probably far less than me and Brock Lesnar. He could probably ragdoll me easier than she was ragdolling these women who were in her same weight class. But there's an advantage. And it needs to be discussed and it needs to be something that's fully explored. And maybe she's the pioneer of this exploration.

She is. And maybe they will figure out a way to add something that alleviates a certain amount of bone density. Maybe they'll figure out how to do something that changes the mechanical advantage that a man has. Maybe it'll be a chromosomal thing. Maybe we have to understand that she has to fight the people that want to fight her. And the people that don't want to fight her, they have that option right now to say, yeah, I want to fight her or I don't want to fight her.

And then we have to figure out how that's going to play into the situation. And you know what? There also can be a transgender division of MMA. Exactly. No, that's very cool. Transgender women. There's plenty of transgender women. That would be really fucking cool, dude.

That's a great idea. That's a super awesome idea. That idea leaves no controversy at all. I don't think anybody would have a problem with it. I don't think so. You wouldn't hear a peep out of me. I would have no problem with it. No, because it's a fair fight now.

Yes, exactly. And I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea if it's vetted out and found to be 100% safe. Right. But I have looked at it objectively. I've looked at the research. I've been told by all these progressive people that are like, you know, hey, there's real science been done on this. I looked at that real science, and it's horseshit.

There's not real science. It's real science that's set up to give confirmation bias to the idea that as soon as someone attains sexual reassignment surgery, then they're immediately, they not just identify as that sex, but are that sex physiologically. And it's simply not true. It's not true. I'll be the first to tell you that. I have female frames still. You cannot

change your DNA. Once that is there, my frame is still female. It is. I can put as much bulk as I want to put on my body. I still have. And you know, when I, I used to be a lot bigger, I was like, Oh, getting into the whole bodybuilding thing. And then all I, I hurt all the time because my little frame underneath that was like, fuck you. What is the, what's the heaviest you ever got? Uh, I got about 185 and I was just like,

my shoulders were like this. I had no neck, dude. I was like, Oh, and I was like, I'm over this shit, man. And I traveled like mad. So I couldn't. I was like all, oh. And I was like, uh-uh. I'm over this shit, man. And I travel like mad, so I couldn't go to the gym all the time, and my eating sucked. And so I wasn't comfortable. My frame underneath, my woman frame was going, you fucking bitch. I get that shit all over me. How much did you weigh as a woman? Oh, I was small, dude.

I was 110. Whoa. Tiny. So you put on 75 pounds of muscle. Packed it on, dude. Think of 75 steaks. Like big, fat, thick, one-pound steaks. Dude, and I was just like, rawr, I'm going to get big.

I was one of those crazy gym people. 75 steaks. Yeah, I packed it up, dude. Like, I was crazy. When you look at it that way, 75 steaks. It's pretty gross. That's a lot of meat you put on you. What do you weigh now?

Now I weigh about 160. You feel like that's like... Oh, I'm at my's pretty gross. That's a lot of meat you put on you. What do you weigh now? Now I weigh about 160. You feel like that's like. Oh, I'm at my weight, dude. That's perfect. I'm totally at my weight. 25 pounds down. Love it. Totally love it.

Even. Feels so awesome. 50 up. Yeah. Like, fuck that shit. Like, ow, that hurts. Yeah. What were you doing?

You were doing a lot of power lifting. Yeah, totally. Just heavy, heavy weights, dude. Like, every kind of heavy weight you could imagine. Yeah, deadlifts, like bench press, like all of them. Big heavy weights. Yeah, deadlifts, bench press, all of them. Big heavyweights. That, I'm sure, changed your frame a little bit. You think?

Yeah. Not just your bone structure, too. I bet that made your bone structure a lot denser. I bet that's also a lot of how your head got thicker. Oh, my head got totally thick. Your jaw. My nose grew. Power lifting, and especially power lifting under the influence of testosterone.

Right. That's a big one for just everything denser. They say a certain amount of it is actually really important for old people. Uh-huh, sure. Like to avoid loss of bone density. Men and women. I believe that totally. Yeah, those power lifting movements like deadlifts and squats.

I think they're awesome. I still do that. Yeah. But more in a like CrossFit-y kind of way. Not so much like going to the gym. Right, right, right. in a CrossFit-y kind of way, not so much like going to the gym. Right, right, right. Well, CrossFit-y, they get a little wacky too.

Oh, no, they're totally insane, dude. Those people get bananas. Yeah. I have a buddy who's got a blown back now from CrossFit, and I was trying to warn him. You know, I was like...

Chill out. I was like, my trainer says that when you do all those reps with those powerlifting exercises, it's kind of dangerous. You think? Or those crazy pull-ups they do.

It's the WOD. I gotta get it done. No, my sister's totally into it. She opened a CrossFit gym and they're totally obsessed with her CrossFit. I go every once in a while and it's all cool. It's sexy as fuck. It gets a little bit insane. I think those chicks are sexy as fuck. Their bodies look phenomenal. Really strong,

powerful chicks with chalk on their hands. No, they totally are fucking amazing. That's what I like. They have really... I like the squatters. Maybe I should do a porn with CrossFit chicks. Oh, yeah. People would love that.

CrossFit porn. Yeah, CrossFit would kick you out of every fucking gym in the country. As soon as it goes natural, as soon as it goes national and big on the internet, they'd be like, what the fuck, Buck? You're fucking it all up for us. We've got a bunch of people that have got the total wrong impression of CrossFit now. I think it's a sex club. Yeah, you go and squat and then just fucking rape each other.

I'm like, those squats are really good for sex, actually. They are, though, right? Nobody wants to have sex with frail people. You don't want to have sex with someone and worry about breaking things. Yeah. So hopefully Fallon is going to be cool about what we discussed. Listen, I want Fallon to know that I have no disrespect to her as a human being. I believe that.

And if I knew her only as a trans woman, we would be friendly as all fuck. I swear to God. I believe it. My issue lies only on the lack of disclosure and what I saw in those fights. So how can she fix that, do you think? I don't know. Is there a way that she could sort of, you know, what's the word I'm looking for? Like sort of bring herself back and people start having a little bit more respect for her in the MMA stuff?

Well, now that- Has she already lost her- I don't know. Discredited herself from that or- for her in the MMA stuff? Well, now that... She already lost her... I don't know. Discredited herself from that, or... I don't think anybody ever discredits themselves forever. I mean, I think even

the biggest fuck-ups, you know, one can come back from. Right. If you're honest, especially. Well, if you're honest, but sometimes people aren't willing a lot of times. The communities aren't willing

to sort of give you that. Yeah. Well, she's going to certainly face some resistance. She already is. Yeah. She's certainly going to face resistance as far as opponents. But at. Well, she's going to certainly face some resistance. She already is. Yeah. She's certainly going to face resistance as far as opponents. But at least now it's willing resistance.

It's people who understand. Not resistance post-fight where they go, wait a minute, that used to be a guy? What the fuck? What the fuck? And then they get mad. They're like, Jesus Christ, you have a concussion? They can't hear? Well, because that's what they're hearing.

That used to be a guy. And of course that brings up all kinds of red flags. You're like, I'm not fighting a dude. This is women's fighting. That's what they're hearing. That used to be a guy. And of course that brings up all kinds of red flags. You're like, I'm not fighting a dude. This is women's fighting. That's what's going on. But now that it's revealed, I'm for anybody who wants to fight her. I just think that if the commissions are going to be responsible about it, there should be some sort of real protocol set in place.

It should really be examined. Bone density, the whole nine yards. Everything should be examined. And you should have more opinions than these extremely biased gender reassignment doctors who are providing a lot of the information that I've been reading online that people have been pointing to in support of gender reassignment people being immediately recognized as cisgender, you know, it's the same, real woman category, whatever. I think once it's out there, it's out there. Now that it's out there, hey, you know, if you choose to compete against her and you're

a cis woman and you have no problem with it. It's cool. I'm free with you trying to ride bulls, too. I think that's way more ridiculous. I'm free with you trying to fucking do flips on a BMX bike. Do whatever the fuck you want, man. But any kind of contact sport, maybe like rugby or something like that, what do you think about?

If you want to do it, as long as you know. And also as long as the other teammates or people know that you are a transgender person. Yes. So it needs to be disclosed. It needs to be disclosed. It needs to be disclosed. And it really needs to be studied objectively and scientifically without any sort of bias. So we can really look at the actual numbers, not just on one person, but on several people.

Like on that side only? Yeah, pre-surgery, post-surgery, in the middle, five years in. Let's get a real database to work from because we don't have one right now. I think, look, there's women, when I used to kick box, there used to be this chick that used to come in the gym and fucking slug it out with dudes. And everybody supported her on that. You know, you want to go in there and do that?

And I know girls that are pro MMA fighters to this day that go in the gym and duke it out with dudes. And they do it because it makes them better. And I am fucking 100%—but they know what they're doing when they're going in there. They choose that, and just like riding a bull or going BMX riding or anything else is dangerous as long as you are fully aware of the parameters of the competition that you're getting involved in and the risks that they might entail. Right. I'm cool with it.

Yeah. I just said earlier, I'm all about disclosure. Yes, you are. It's a huge, huge thing for me. And every part of your life as a trans person, we're different than the rest of the world and we have to understand that. Face value, I look like a guy, but it doesn't mean that you might think that way about me as well. Well what's beautiful about today is you may be different than me or you may be different than Jamie,

you might be different, but you're not different than everybody and you can reach each other. The communities now that can be established through the internet, there's so much broader and there's so much more varied, there's so much more room for everybody. You can find those folks. And I think that's a lot of the enthusiasm about finding that is what creates all these weird acronyms and secret languages and these weird inside talk.

It's like inside chatter. It is. It's our secret language. Tell everybody that you're inside. I think that's sort of what kind of fosters that. I think that's a natural aspect of human interaction. Sure. Especially when finally you belong.

Totally. You involve and engross yourself in it and just really get super in-depth in it. Yeah, because you can buddy up and we all know how we each feel about each other and how our lives were. We all have the same story in different ways yeah we all come to it and I think it's also super important that a guy like you comes out and explains how much bullshit you had to deal with before that happened and your your point of view and how depressing how depressed you were and how gross it was to have to fucking fight people because they didn't like who you were and how gross it was to have to fucking fight people because they didn't like who you were. And people can hear that and it'll change people's opinions. I totally think so.

Fuck yeah, it will. But you know, like I said, people like you putting me on their show. I totally give you props for that, dude, because your fan base doesn't know guys like me. And of course they're going to say stuff. I totally get it. But I know that many of the guys are going to walk away going, actually, Buck is totally a dude. You'd be surprised at my fan base. There are a lot of weirdos. There's a lot of weirdos. I'm the bridge between the meatheads and the potheads.

I get it. But that's my point. That's important because those guys are the ones that are like, ugh. They just don't understand. They don't want to understand. They don't understand also that there's actual strength in not judging. There's strength in being open. There's strength in being cool with everybody.

There's personal strength in being open and not being insecure about that. And that closed-offness is actually a weakness. Oh, clearly. And it also provides you and gives you conflict in your life that's unnecessary and enemies in your life that are unnecessary that easily could be allies.

I know. That's what I was saying about having the positive energy and discussing those things and understanding. Yeah, remember what we said? Your opinion about felon is your opinion

and I appreciate that opinion and she should too. My opinion also happens to be the exact same opinion of every single martial arts expert that I've talked to. I have also happens to be the exact same opinion of every single martial arts expert that I've talked to. I have not talked to one. Not one trainer.

Not one person involved deeply in the business. Not one fighter. Male fighter. Not one. Everyone was like, what? Because it's new. It's something that no one... Men understand the advantages. There's not just that. It's something that no one, well, and also the facts. Men understand the advantages. Right.

There's critical advantages. Right. Even like great female fighters, like Misha Tate is a great female fighter. She moves like a woman, though. There's a difference. There's a difference in the way the body moves. Yeah, I see that. You know?

Yeah. People have, there's a real, like a consensus opinion about that across the board in the mixed martial arts community. And it's almost unanimously against someone doing that without disclosure. Because it's not fair. That's the idea. Well, yeah, because the facts show it's not fair. But the fact is Serena Williams, I think, is a wreck, bitches. She's a total cis woman. I love her. Are you kidding me? If I could get Serena Williams at an MMA gym for the wreck bitches. She's a total cis woman.

I love her. Are you kidding me? If I could get Serena Williams at an MMA gym, she would just listen to me. I would say, Serena, you're going to be the baddest bitch

in the history of bitches. She would kill it. She would kill it. Okay, well, so then you could put Fallon and her against each other? What do you think of that? Well, Fallon would probably

kick her ass right now. You think? Yeah, you need to have some skills. If a person doesn't have any martial arts training. No, now, but after you train her, what do you think about that? They would have to have some skills. If a person doesn't have any martial arts training. No, now, but after you train her, what do you think about that? They would have to have a commensurate skill level before you could even judge.

And I would have to actually see Fallon hit a bag and see what she can actually do right now in person. Right. Serena Williams, I'm sure, doesn't have any MMA training. To be that fucking good at tennis, you're eating, breathing, sleeping, living tennis. Yeah, totally. But she's a super athlete. If she just listened to me, I could get that bitch in the right gym. I love her. She's so awesome.

Give me a couple of years. I'll get you the right trainers. Just listen to me. I'm going to judge you. I'm going to write journals every day. She would dominate female MMA. Dude, but she kills it in tennis. She's like, fuck that.

Look at that body Jesus Louisa's Look at her fucking body God damn If you were in a fight to the death with that chick You gotta fight You can't take it easy on her man Look at that arm my goodness

If that arm got around your neck You're going to sleep If someone taught her how to do a triangle properly, you ever see her legs? Jamie, pull up a picture of her legs. Jesus fucking Christ. The legs of the gods. The tightness of her vagina must be a thing of legend.

If she clamped down on you, it's probably like dogs. You know dogs, like the male dog locks into the female, and the female wants to get away? Like, ah, crying. The dog's in pain, like, let me go. You're supposed to pour hot water on them. Well, there's something physiological that happens to the male's penis where they actually lock in there somehow. Yeah, it does.

In order to make sure. Look at her fucking legs. Jesus Christ. Look at her ass, dude. Are you kidding? Oh, my God. Her ass is amazing. That looks like her ass is pregnant with basketballs.

It doesn't even look real. It doesn't look real. She looks like she could just jump over a building. She is superwoman, for sure. She could just launch herself over the entire fucking tennis arena. What a fucking ass. That is an athlete. That's like an ultra athlete.

Wow. Wow, where did you get that picture from? What the fuck is that ass? Fucking ass. My God. That is an athlete. That's like an ultra athlete. Woo! Wow. Wow. Where did you get that picture from? What the fuck is that ass? Look at that. You're tripping out. Her ass is insanity.

It's a Photoshop. It looks like a Photoshop. It does. Is that a Photoshop? Make sure that's not a Photoshop. Find other corroborating pieces of evidence online. Yeah, we need to see the real. That's so ridiculous. Wow.

But I've seen enough that I think it is what her ass really looks like. Yeah, I know. It is. That's power. God damn. Yeah, I know. It is. That's power. God damn, you ain't kidding. That girl, Jesus Christ. That girl's got some fucking genetics. Super.

Woo! Like I said, the amount of pull. Look, there's her ass right there. It's insane. Yeah, that's on the beach. That shit's real. And that's not even like in the middle of training. No, it's not.

That's just smiling with sunglasses on. That's on the beach. That shit's real. And that's not even like in the middle of training. No. It's not. It's just smiling with sunglasses on. It's all smiling. Smiling with sunglasses on with ultra ass trailing behind her. That's like three asses. She has like three small white girl asses packed in together. Yeah. That's, you can't, yeah, you can't get that every day. If every woman looked like that, we'd be a totally different species of human.

Oh, completely. Look at that fucking body! Jesus! If that was the genetics of every woman we all bred, we would have warrior children. We would make, like, every woman look like 300. That would be awesome. After they did the CGI on their bodies. That would be awesome.

Everyone's body would look like 300. It would be insane. Yeah, I mean, and that is also the gray area when you're talking about transgenders. That a woman,

a cisgender woman like her exists. And then, that's a freak end of the spectrum. And that's a cisgender woman. So maybe we should look at what her bone density is

and all of the things that she has. And her musculature. And then look at, I mean, but also the weight class, too. She would be clearly a heavyweight. I mean, I don't know how much she weighs, but I got to think she's a buck 65, a buck 75 at least. And think about the full spectrum. Go Molly Ringwald to her.

Why Molly Ringwald? I don't know. That's what came to mind. Pasty, redhead. Totally. Just looks like she bruises every time she runs into a corner of a tablewald? That's funny. That's what came to mind. Pasty, redhead. Totally. Just looks like she bruises every time she runs into a corner of a table. That is so funny. Ow, ow.

She's got shin bruises and hangnails that are swollen. Poor Molly. That's not sexy. I can't think about that. No, she's just soft and white. Yeah, I can't. Yeah. Take her outside in the bright sun.

She turns pink. Totally. Just immediately. Like a fucking vampire. Oh, God. Yeah, I mean, and that's the same side turns pink immediately. Oh, fucking vampire. Oh, God. Yeah. I mean, and that's the same with males as well. That's a real issue with men's athletics in mixed martial arts as well.

And that has nothing to do with steroids. There's people that are just natural super athletes. And then there's other folks that just have really slow twitch muscle fibers that wouldn't be bad if they were triathletes, but in an MMA fight, they just can't generate speed and power. Right. And then they fight someone who's just, boom! Wow. They can just blast them, and it's sad to watch because you know that fighter A will never beat fighter B.

Right. There's fighter Bs. So why are they in the ring in the first place? Because they're good. They're just not good enough. They're good. there's fighter bees. So why are they in the ring in the first place? Because they're good. They're just not good enough. They're good. They get good. Like, there's certain guys.

I don't want to mention any names, but I'll mention the positive side. There's certain guys that they're never going to beat a guy like Jacare Souza. There's a guy. Pull up this picture of Jacare. J-A-C-A-R-A Souza against Yushin Okami. There's photos of him beating the fuck out of this badass Japanese dude, Yushin Okami. Now, Yushin Okami is a bad motherfucker. And this Jacare guy is such a physical freak

that he just crushed this guy. I mean, there's certain guys that just have this very unique physical ability, and no matter what you do, you're never going to beat that. As long as he's training, as long as he's learning skills, as long as he's dedicating himself, he has certain inherent advantages that he was blessed with that you can't overcome. Right.

Because if a guy is not just physical, not just has the physical ability, but also puts in the dedication and has the intelligence and the mental strength. If he has all those factors, it's not fair. It's not fair. Yeah, right. Because if you don't have those, if you're just super tough and you're really technical, but your fucking body sucks a fat dick,

you just got some old school slow poke DNA and you just can't get over that physical hump, that guy can crack you at will and you can't reach him right You can't get a hold of him. You can't hit him when you want to he's too fast right? There's nothing you can do pull up you get any photos of Jacare You do jump well just if you find an impressive photo of him look at him that guy is a fucking super stud It's hard to tell from that picture if you see there's a picture of him beating the shit out of Okami. If you see Jacare versus Okami,

look at Jacare vs OKAMI Brazil. He was a world jiu-jitsu champion, multiple time world jiu-jitsu champion and now he's fighting in MMA. And he is the argument towards Fallon Fox's side that there's a broad spectrum

in both sexes, as is Serena Williams. Right. So then, yeah, so does that, so that's actually a really good question then. Yeah. Because then you have that, is that fair? But it's natural.

Yeah. See if you can find the picture of him beating the shit out of Okami. Because there's some photos of him smashing Okami where you look at his body and just like, Jesus fucking Christ. If you see him move, it's even spookier because he moves like a cat. He moves like a big giant cat.

Just springs on dudes. So if someone's getting the shit beat out of them in a fight, do they stop it at a certain point? Yes, yeah. It looks like you're going to die. There you see him there teeing off on him, but if you see him actually moving, it's even spookier. Yeah, they stop it.

If a guy can't defend himself, is not defending himself, or if the referee thinks he's taking too much punishment, the referee is free to stop it at any time. If he feels like it's not competitive anymore, the guy's in danger. And that's the most important job the referee has, rescuing people from danger. From danger. Yeah. And what's the worst thing that ever happened in a ring?

Did someone ever die in there? Not in the UFC. A guy died this week in Brazil from weight cutting, actually. What's that? Weight cutting is these guys, they want to, there's some fucking, some dude's arm up.

Look at that muscle. He's a monster. His jujitsu is nasty, too. He's a fucking beast. Weight cutting is, say if you're going to compete at 155 pounds, you want all the advantages that you can get.

And one of the best advantages is you dehydrate yourself. Oh. So you make 155 pounds and then you rehydrate yourself up to like 170-ish. And then you go into the ring, they use IV, so you go in the ring fully hydrated and you feel great. But you weighed in at 155 and now you weigh 170. So you're really big for the weight class and there's a point of diminishing returns we cut too much weight and it weakens your body so much that you can't perform well the next day right and then there's way past that point where this guy went to where he

died this is the first he cut because he cut too much weight this is the first known case that I'm aware of in MMA if someone dying but it's been a problem with college wrestling for a long time, and high school wrestling even, rather, to the point where they've started to monitor athletes' weights and how much they cut and how much they put back on, and they make sure that they don't get below a certain amount of body fat. They make sure that they don't cut too much water. Wow, that's scary. It's very scary. And it's even more scary in combat sports because in combat sports, you're also dealing with the effects of the concussive impacts on the dehydrated brain. Right. And it's much more dangerous. It's a little-known fact, but all of the deaths in professional boxing that have occurred inside the ring, at least almost all of them, have been under the heavyweight division.

It's all in the divisions where people had to cut weight. So then you weigh in at that weight, and then you rehydrate. Is that legal? Yes. Oh, it is. Yes. That doesn't make sense to me, though. Exactly.

You know why? Because you're looking at it as an objective observer that's intelligent and hasn't already decided that that's just a part of the landscape. When you're looking at it normally, you're like, this is crazy. This is crazy. You shouldn't let people do that. No, it doesn't. Because it's about the weight, so that. When you're looking at it normally, you're like, this is crazy. This is crazy. They shouldn't let people do that. No, it doesn't because it's about the weight, so that's all you're focused on. Yes.

There's two different fights. There's the fight that happens in the gym or in the cage, and there's the fight that happens to get to the scale. To get to the scale. There's two different complete battles. And you can't fight unless you're that exact weight right now. Yeah, so the 24 to 48 hours before weigh-in is horrific like a nightmare a nightmare they dehydrate themselves radically hearted they don't eat a fucking they don't eat shit they need very little food they're starving

by the time they get on the body billers do the same thing right I have to like yeah but they don't get head they don't have to like smack each other around we don't get fucking shins bounce off their domes 40 miles an hour that's weird oh don't do they talk about this off their domes at 40 miles an hour. That's weird, though. Do they talk about this? Yes. And are they planning on fixing this? There's not much they can do.

The one thing that they've done is they've moved the weight. Because you can't stop people from doing that if they want to do that. I'm talking about the actual laws of the UFC. Maybe they should make the weight in a variable there of 5 pounds or something. No, you wouldn't do that because then people would just get heavier. They would make sure that they were heavy. And then they would do the same thing. See, if you varied it,

if you said you don't have to weigh in at 155, you can be as heavy as 160. Then they would get up to 180 and cut down to 160. But they'd still be cutting. They'd be even bigger because they've got it down to a science. There's some guys, the best guy is this Brazilian guy. His name is Gleison Tebow. He will cut 30 pounds, and he will weigh in at 155, but fight closer to 180.

He will put most of it back on by the time. 30 pounds? Pull up this guy, Tebow, GL, man, try spelling that. Oh, you found him. And then how do you cut? The size of this motherfucker. Holy crap. If you saw how big this guy is in person, he's 5'10".

And he weighs in at 155. And he's gigantic. 155? Yeah. He's gigantic when he gets in the cage. Wow. I mean, he's a fucking monster. He's the very best in the world at cutting weight.

No one cuts weight better than that guy. And how do you, how, yeah, they have it down to a science. They have to. It's also bio-specific. He's the very best in the world at cutting weight. No one cuts weight better than that guy. Yeah, they have it down to a science. They have to. It's also bio-specific. You might be better at weight cutting than I am, and I might be better than he is. Some people can dehydrate the shit out of themselves and bounce back easy and cut a lot of weight.

Other guys can't do it. And it affects people very differently. And no one understands why. They don't know if it's a genetic issue, if it's a diet issue. Like the cells are different. They don't know. But some guys can cut a fuckload of weight. And how do they do that?

How do they get the weight off? There's a bunch of different ways. Like putting something on to... They try not to do that anymore. That's the old school way to do it. And some guys still do it that way. But that's actually dangerous. The way they do it now is through distilled water.

Some guys still do it that way, but that's actually dangerous. The way they do it now is through distilled water. They take massive amounts of water up till the weigh-in, up to the week of the weigh-in. And then on several days before the weigh-in, they drink only distilled water, and they drink quite a bit of it. So your body is used to just pissing out this water. Distilled water has no minerals in it at all. So you're just, the water's going in you and out you, in you and out you, right through you, you're not retaining it. And so then leading up to the fight, they stop drinking water at all and they piss everything out. So they get down to like nothing. Then they

step on the scale, they weigh in at whatever it is. And then they slowly rehydrate first of all with Pedialyte, which is an electrolyte supplement. And then they go to IVs. They take an IV bag. Yeah, it's no joke, man. And the IV bag is apparently the best way to rehydrate your noggin. Because it's fast. The brain fluid is the real issue. And doing it through the digestive tract apparently takes much more time than it does through the IV right into your blood. You can rehydrate

much quicker. This is the size of this guy. Glacian T-Bow. I don't know which one is pre-weigh in. The one on the right is when he's dried out.

He just looks like the same muscular guy just a little smaller. He looks fake. And then on the left he just with the white shorts on. See the size

of that motherfucker. He's a tank too. He's a tank, too. He's a strong motherfucker. And he's also black belt in jiu-jitsu. All right. And he's got like, you know, 30 fucking plus MMA fights. He's a beast. But he's the best at doing that.

But it's a dangerous game. It has to be. It's really not cool for your brain to do that. I've seen guys walk up to that scale where they look like they're dead. Wow. Where they struggle to get. The weigh-ins are on top of a platform, and they have to go up this platform, go up the stairs to get to this platform. I've seen guys who are going to fight in a cage in 24 hours, and they can barely walk up those stairs.

Wow. Barely make it. It's just really out of control. Oh, yeah. Real dangerous. Nothing they can do about it. The best thing they've done is move the weigh-ins from the day of the fights

to 24 hours before. Boxing did that. And then what does that do? It gives them more time to rehydrate. So they're not so out of it when they get into the ring. Because they used to do it

the day of. They used to do it in the morning of the fights. Guys used to weigh in and then they would go and fight that night. And weight cutting has existed forever

in boxing and wrestling and as soon as MMA had weight classes, people And weight cutting has existed forever in boxing and wrestling. And, you know, and as soon as MMA had weight classes, people started weight cutting. Right there. It's always, it's, you know, because especially with MMA, because MMA, they came into it with a wrestler's mentality. And a lot of MMA fighters, their base is in wrestling. And in fact, it's the best base for MMA. And those guys that came into it are used to cutting weight. They're really good at it, and they know how to do it well. The issue, of course, is that their sport doesn't have head trauma or much head trauma, whereas MMA is all about head trauma.

It's all about that. Yeah, and head trauma with dehydration is very dangerous. I'm surprised there hasn't been more deaths. It's pretty incredible. They're on the ball. The doctors are excellent. The referees are excellent. The commissions, they keep a close eye on fighters, and they test the shit out of them before they actually get into the cage. They make

them do MRIs, a full blood scan. They make sure that these people that go in there are healthy. And they've actually found a lot of like real issues with people because of these scans that have, you know, like people didn't know they had like an aneurysm ready to happen in their brain. And if they got hit, they would be like out. My friend Dan Hardy, who was a top level MMA fighter, found out he had an extra heartbeat, some weird aberration of his heart where he's got his primary heartbeat and he's got this weird sort of extra beat that goes on,

and the worry is that this extra beat can overcome him and he could possibly have a heart attack. I don't understand the medical aspect of it, but he can't fight now unless he has this operation where they go into his chest and remove this extra heartbeat. he can't fight now unless he has this operation where they go into his chest and remove this extra heartbeat. He can't fight now? No, and he's a top-level pro. And it's just the concern

by these athletic commissions and the doctors have kept him from competing. So he hasn't fought in the UFC in a couple years. What a bummer. It's a real issue. Why doesn't he get an operation? Well, for him, he doesn't feel like he needs it. He doesn't feel like it's warranted or necessary. He's fighting. get an operation? Well, for him, he doesn't feel like he needs it. He doesn't feel like it's more than necessary. Yeah, but it's preventing him from fighting.

Also, he underwent, and I hate using these terms, but in his case, it's actually the correct term. He underwent a spiritual transformation. He went to the Amazon and took ayahuasca. And sort of has reassessed

his entire life since then. And it was really not- He totally had an awakening. Yeah, he's totally fine. I know it's all wing nutty like Zen, but it happens. It ain't wing nutty if you take it. And also, I think those things happen. Oh, yeah.

I really believe that it happens. Have you ever done ayahuasca? No, but I would be pretty awesome to do. You need to do it. I think so. Yeah. Have you done it? Yeah.

Well, I've done the strongest version of it, which is the pure dimethyltryptamine. Oh, my God. Were you in the Amazon jungle when you did it? No, I was in my house. And you painted it all Amazon jungle. I don't know. I don't need to go where the bugs are.

That's ridiculous. I gotta hate mosquitoes. The earth doesn't give a fuck where you are. That's hilarious. One of the things that you realize when you do DMT is the earth gives zero fucks where you are while this is happening. You do not need to be in the desert. It is way bigger than that.

It's the whole universe. No, totally. Wow. Dimethyltryptamine is the pure version of what the ayahuasca experience is. Ayahuasca is the orally active version of dimethyltryptamine. And these shamans in the Amazon figured many, many thousands of years ago. We don't even know when. They figured out how to combine these ingredients in order to make DMT orally active.

Wow. Because DMT normally is not orally active because it exists in so many different plants. You would be tripping all the time if you ate salad. Right. Really. No bullshit. So your body produces something called monoamine oxidase. And monoamine oxidase breaks down dimethyltryptamine in the gut.

So what they've done with ayahuasca is it's a combinatory drug where they've taken the root of one plant and the leaves of the other. And the leaves or the root, one of them, is a natural MAO inhibitor. And it's called haramine. And they boil this stuff down together and they create this thing where the MAO inhibitor and the DMT are all together so that as you drink it, it goes into your gut, but the monoamine oxidase gets killed by the haramine

and the DMT goes right into the bloodstream. What? Yeah. It's like a slow release version of the DMT. And then what happens when you... You go into the bloodstream. What? Yeah. It's like a slow-release version of the DMT. And then what happened when you... You go to the spirit world. Yeah. It's for real.

The idea of the spirit world sounds like everything that everybody thinks about when you think of, like, if you took a pill and you went to a magic place where there's dragons and demons and aliens and spaceships and fractals all around you it's that times a million plus plus it's way more real than reality itself and yeah and well dan hardy went down there and did this and uh he's like well fighting is kind of futile it's like kind of like

what am i doing like what's the necessary evil here? What is really being done here? What am I really pursuing? And he realized that he was basically on a vision quest. His life was like a vision quest. And to find himself, to seek truth, he did it through combat. He did it through physical one-on-one competition in the most dangerous sport in the world and then in Having this Iowa and I'm really speaking at a turn to put these words into his mouth

But I think what I got out of it from speaking to him was that he now that he understands that this whole world Exists and that it exists Existed always and it was behind the curtain then he couldn't see the little man behind the curtain pulling the cords and then all sudden he saw and he sees everything he saw the whole thing that he's just his perspective it was altered so radically and it also coincided with when he was diagnosed with this condition so it's almost like the universe is giving him a new totally is yeah it totally is I'm a big believer of that. It's possible.

I mean, it's possible you created all yourself inside your imagination as well. There's many things there that are possible. Yeah. If you're open to it. Oh, yeah. You have to be open to it. Fuck yeah. The imagination itself is scary as fuck.

That's why people aren't open to it. They don't want to look at that. It can just freak you out. Imagination is madness. Just what it is. I mean, everybody thinks of the imagination as being, oh, you know, he thinks about things that aren't really there. Sort of.

But the imagination is also what made cities. It also what made laptops. It made every physical object that has ever been created had to be invented. And it had to be invented through the imagination. Even if it was done in steps, like first came the tire, and then came the wheel, and then came the engine.

All those things combined created a car that gets you to Vegas in four hours. Right, totally. And that's a real thing. All those created a plane that gets you in the air. All those created a fucking spaceship that launches a satellite into orbit. All those created a phone that allows you to text someone who's in Australia. All those created light bulbs. allows you to text someone who's in Australia all those created light bulbs I mean all that shit is imagination

Imagination has reshaped the entire surface of the fucking planet like no other Thing entity I know no other power more so than fucking volcanoes So after he had that trip and he doesn't fight anymore Did he find that he found a different that he was a different calling for him right now? I don't, I haven't talked to him in a while. We need to get it back on here. I don't know what he's up to these days. Yeah, I'm very interested to know, like, did he feel like with that, his fighting was over

and it was time for him to go to a new path. And that's why he wasn't really worried about having the surgery and going there. Does that make sense? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look, I think he probably would still like to compete every now and then if he could get it worked out. But I also believe that what he was saying was that that's not the most important thing in the world right now.

And he also realizes how much of the goals that he wanted to achieve were ego-based, ego-centered. And one of the things that gets crushed when you have a really intense psychedelic experience is the ego. It always bounces back a little. I fight with my ego all the time, as every man does. Of course. It's part of, like, it's also part of the testosterone thing.

Possibly, yeah. It's part of the XY chromosome thing. It's part of the dick thing. Right, right. It's part of the male identity thing. There's a constant need to feel special, you know, to justify while you're doing what you're doing, to reward yourself for what you've done

and encourage further progress. But that progress, I mean, that's what sort of pushes forth almost everything that men do in this world. And there's that weird balance where you're trying to, you know, be a sort of enlightened person, but also you're a man, you know. So you're fighting against that.

Fighting, yes, but I prefer the term struggle. Okay, right. Not even struggle, but like you constantly have to be aware of it. You constantly have to be on alert. Make sure that the ego never pops up. You got to constantly, because if you're under stress or if you're not diligent with your exercise and meditation, you can allow your thoughts to get away from you. Totally. And take over.

And then my other question was going to be, so I find it really fascinating that you're saying that because I know women and men think totally differently. Yeah. And I can tell you that for sure. Right, right, right. My thought process changed, the way I interact. And people don't tend to realize that,

why I think men and women always have problems with each other in relationships. Men's needs are different than women's needs. And it's a reality that people don't want to talk about. It's true. Do you think that that is true? Oh, for sure. I mean, I assume it's true, but you know it's true. And I think a lot of

problems could be solved in the world as well as relationships if people just are okay with that. And they don't fight against it. Like, the woman needs these things necessary for me to be happy. And then the man needs this, and it causes this huge conflict within the relationship, whatever, if it's friendship or a marriage or whatever. Well, that's also with friendships too. I mean some people require a lot.

A lot. Yeah, and some people don't. And the people that require a lot don't hang out with them. They're not worth it. They're hang out with them they're not worth it they're never worth it they're never totally right they're never worth it i don't care if they have golden pussy or magic dick whatever after a while you're gonna get bored it's a two way street you have to feel like you're both getting that situation that that and the people that require an exorbitant amount of attention ex an exorbitant amount of, they're never worth it. No way, in the long run you're going to suffer.

I dated this girl once, and she was so fucking dramatic. Everything was a struggle, and everything was against her, and everything was about her. Everything that went well for someone had to be turned around to highlight how bad her life was going, including things that would go well for me. It would immediately turn into woe is me because I don't have anything good going on in my life. It was so brutal.

And we broke up, and then I started dating this other girl who was really nice. And it was like I got on a balloon, and I was flying around the city. And the other girl was friendly, and she cracked jokes all the time, and everything was funny to her. And I was like, oh, criminy. What was I doing? There cracked jokes all the time and everything was funny to her and i was like oh criminy there's hope out there there's hope in the world it's like my my soul was on a balloon like up up and away in my beautiful beautiful but she connected with you though wasn't just her being a woman i think there was a connection yeah but the crazy one was better on the people level the crazy one was better this bed. On the people level. The crazy one was better in the side.

Crazy wild bitch wanted to fuck like a dog. She wanted to just distract herself from her miserable mind. So she wanted to just have wild, crazy, fucking, hair-pulling madness. She just wanted to growl. That's pretty awesome. The other one was just a sweetie. And then, again, it's the balance of the fucking crazy world we live in. Yeah, it is.

Totally. 100%. The other problem is not just the men who, you know, who think that they understand how women think and the women who think they understand how men think. The other problem is the people who pretend to be someone else to placate the opposite gender. Oh my god, that's so scary. It's a huge issue. Happens all the time. Yeah. Those are the white knights.

Yes. Happens all the time. The male bitches of the world. Well, there's guys who get together with, like, for example, I have, obviously, stripper friends. Obviously? Why did I say obviously? Because I work in the sex industry. Of course I have stripper friends. And then the guys get with the

girls and they don't want them to strip anymore. That's hilarious. Happens all the time. Porn stars too, right? Porn stars too. Nope. Can't do that anymore. Like what the fuck is that all about? Yeah. Or they make weird rules. Like you're allowed to fuck other people but only at work. Only this guy. Or you're only allowed to fuck girls in front of me.

Yeah. Only girls in front of me. Yeah, only girls in front of me. Or you can only fuck a short list of guys that I'm friends with. Exactly. And they can't come in your face anymore. I know. Not your butt. No double penetration on my woman, bro. That's ego stuff going on.

It is, but they say, if you really pay attention to the heavy-duty psychedelic heads, they say that at one point in time when people regularly consumed psychedelics, we were much more like chimpanzees. We had this orgiastic community, a small group of 50 to 100 people, and we all shared. In fact, one of the guys that we have on the podcast all the time is a guy named Dr. Chris Ryan, and he wrote a book called Sex at Dawn. And it's a fascinating book about the origins of human sexual interaction. And his take on it is really, first of all, it's really well studied. And secondly, just the origin of words, like promiscuous.

The original origin of promiscuous doesn't mean like having sex with random people. Like that never happened it means mixed mixed sexuality like having sex with several partners right that was promiscuous but it was always people in the community it was always people that that knew each other right because there was only 50 of you and you're hanging out in the amazon you know and you're shooting darts at monkeys and trying to stay alive keep that fire lit right it wasn't like going to a club and picking some strange guy and letting him come inside you. That didn't happen. Right.

They didn't allow strangers in the camp. You know, they didn't just go meet people and fuck. Right. It's like polyamory or something. Yes. People are just fucking each other. They know. It's also the idea exists in fighter pilots. There was another really fascinating aspect of this guy's book,

that fighter pilots and people in intense, high-risk, high-death-rate jobs would often wife-swap. And the idea, the psychology behind it was, the wife-swapping was to ensure that they're the one that they love so dearly. It's not that they didn't want to have this

connection only with them, but they wanted other people to love them, too, because they probably wouldn't be around. Oh, wow. That's really fascinating. Yes, and it's very common amongst fighter pilots. This is a switch that goes off when you're in this intense... The odds of me dying are very high. The odds of you dying are probably 30% or something crazy like that.

So I just made that up that night. I know. I know why I threw out 30%. I had to define it. That's the ego. That's the ego. I don't know. That's the ego, having to come up with a number.

But they do that on a regular basis. It's a super common thing among soldiers, some police officers. A lot of cops wind up doing that. No, they totally do. Yeah. That's what it's about. It's about this, there is a primal need to have your loved ones loved by others so that they'll be safe when you're gone Wow, that's really fascinating. Yeah. Yeah the human human sexuality morphs so much dependent upon circumstance

It's telling you know something people don't they just think oh, that's why people want guys especially need to go out It's part of your DNA. It's part of, you need to spread your seed. It's very normal, I think, that guys go out and need to have sex with lots of different people. I think it's part of- Try explaining that to my wife. Or anybody's wife. I can explain it.

I can explain it. I know, I'm just kidding. But you can't. But would your wife be okay with that if you did that, or would she not be okay with that? I think she'd probably be pretty sad. Really? Yeah. No, women don't want you to go fuck other guys or other girls.

No, you can't be fucking other guys. You can't. Well, you don't want them to fuck other guys and they don't want you to fuck other girls. And even if your DNA is telling you to go do it... No, I know some people who are totally okay with that. Yeah, a bunch of strippers and freaks. Look, you've established this.

I know all the polyamory people who fuck each other. I think every man would certainly want that if it was a one-way street. But I think most men wouldn't want it. So would you be okay with your wife fucking someone else? No, that wouldn't be nice. Yeah. I wouldn't enjoy that. Yeah, you wouldn't enjoy it.

What if you watched? Well, my question for you, though, is because you were a woman and now you're a man. Right. How has your thoughts on that changed? Oh, totally. You were always a lesbian though. Yeah, I identified as a gay woman for many years because that was the only thing I knew how I could identify. Though I felt like a man,

then when I told my lesbian community, well, I kind of feel like a man and I'm going to have this change, they all dumped me. I lost all of my friends. They were like, you're a traitor. Basically, they said I'm a traitor. What? And I'm going to the bad side.

Wait a minute. Totally. That was the actual words they said? 20 years ago. Oh, yeah. They actually said you're a traitor? You're going to the other side. Totally, dude.

And I was like, dumped. Wouldn't you think that people who have been marginalized- Yes, you would think that. People have been forced to just face all sorts of prejudice and hurtful things that they would be more accepting. You would think that. That's a very good point. What is wrong with people? Well, I guess it was 20 years ago. I don't know if so many lesbians feel the way.

But I think that there is this whole thing going on in the gay women's community where they feel sort of, I don't know. Actually, I can't say anything about that. I've always wondered why they don't take up real estate the way that gay men do. Like, gay men can fucking dominate an entire community. It's a male and female thing. It totally is. Of course.

It totally is. The building of male communities, like gay communities, it's like they're like, Yoo-hoo, move over here. It's necessary. That's male. It is. Like, it's just men need to do it.

Women are really much more, you know, passive and they're fine with that and they're fine with their situation there. They don't need to be making a big deal out of it. I mean, I know that you experienced prejudice and hate as a woman who's a gay woman, but I think it's less so than gay men experience. Yeah, because they're less out there, right? Like I just said, the gay men are out there making that statement where the gay women are very comfortable being in their environment

and not really making a big deal out of it. But it's also like if gay women moved next door, it wouldn't freak a lot of people out. But if a gay man moved next door, they would start going, oh, he's going to try to fuck me. That's what it is right there. It's more than men. Totally.

Well, men don't want to feel like a sex object. They don't want to feel like the way they treat women. I like that. They don't want to feel like a sex object. But I think some men, well, to other men, they worry. Especially if you're a straight man. And you're like, no, that's not totally cool. And you're not affected by the gay women because you might want to watch the gay women have sex.

Yeah, the gay women are no problem at all. Yeah, no, it's not an issue. As a matter of fact, you try to be friendly as possible. Exactly. Get invited over for the parties. Yeah, maybe if I'm just quiet and sit over here. Totally. We could be buds.

Well, listen, man, this was a great conversation. It was really, really fun. I'm glad we had it, and I'm glad we covered so many of the various aspects of the world of transgender and gender identity. And I think a lot of people got a lot out of this. At least I'd hope to think that. I think so.

Yeah. I think it was a good one. I think it's a super important subject. And it's also super important that people kind of understand that, you know, it doesn't matter, man. People are people. Right on. Whatever the fuck they want to do, whether it's be a man, be a woman, get all tattooed up like you and I, or not, or shave your head or not, or fucking whatever, man. What kind of interaction are you having with that person?

And my interaction with you was very pleasant. I enjoyed it very much. Me too. So we're friends now. You're pretty cool, dude. You're pretty cool too. I'm friends with Buck Angels. There you go, bitches.

All right. That's the end of the podcast. If anybody wants to find you online, they can get you at Buck Angel on Twitter. Yep. And you have a website. It's BuckAngel.com. And what's the best one of those things? BuckAngel.com.

BuckAngel.com is a contact and all that shit. Twitter. And Twitter is exactly the same. And Facebook is exactly the same. Facebook,angel.com. Buckangel.com is a contact and all that shit. Twitter. And Twitter's exactly the same. And Facebook is exactly the same. And Facebook, yeah. And let's do this again. Oh, sweet. We'll do it again. Beautiful. Fun times. Alright, thanks everybody for tuning in to the podcast. Thanks to

Squarespace.com. Go to Squarespace.com use the code word Joe and the number 9 and save 20% off for a limited time. It might just be today. But you'll save 10% either way next month or whatever the fuck. It's worth it. Get a website, bitch. Don't be cheap.

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I'm not smarter yet, but I have hope. Lumosity.com. Tell them that you heard it from me, Joe Rogan. And thanks also to Onnit.com. Use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements. The next episode will be the great 400, the 400 podcast spectacular.

It will be our 400th episode, ladies and gentlemen. We're going to get jiggy with it. We're bringing in Joey Diaz for sure and hopefully a lot of the rest of the local posse, the entire freak party. of the rest of the local posse, the entire freak party. And we will just get as many people in here as possible, and we'll all get lit up, and we'll have a good time. And it'll probably be a big sloppy drunk mess and stoned, and we'll probably forget what we're talking about halfway through,

and I'm sure Brian's going to say something really stupid, and it's going to be excellent. It'll probably wind up being an animated thing online. So we'll for sure see you guys on Friday, most likely see you before then as well. So until then, big kiss. Go fuck yourself. Bye.