The Joe Rogan Experience - #412 - Maynard James Keenan

Episode Date: November 5, 2013

Maynard James Keenan is a singer, songwriter, producer, winemaker, and actor, best known as the vocalist for Grammy Award-winning rock band Tool, Puscifer, and A Perfect Circle.

Good googly moogly, ladies and gentlemen. We're live. We're actually live? That's it. Actually live. It's that easy. We don't fuck around anymore, man. That's pretty cool. It's beyond cool. This video that you gave me...

Let's get right to it, Joe. First of all, I love the characters, and I see a reality show in your future i i see a parody of of of uh like a duck dynasty type moonshiners type of situation surreal life far better with music okay fuck it just genius guys who live out in the desert who just happen to make amazing music and be completely retarded. And think they're a punk rock band. No, that's fucking great.

It's really interesting what you're doing. I love how you're, you know, you don't have any rules. You just do whatever the fuck you think is interesting, creative,

and mix the two of them together. I mean, credit where credit is due. When it comes to working with Laura Milligan and Mike King, her husband, Laura's just like,

she'll just go off on a tangent and I'll just film it, you know, and we just kind of go with it. So you pick the right wig for the right tangent and then you just go. I like what you did too where you're mixing different styles of music. You're mixing like legit country music and then some of the songs sound almost like Tool. You know, some of the sounds have like, you know, your same type of vocals that you would in one of your Tool songs, but it's just got this completely different extra vibe to it. Yeah, I think there's a lot of flexibility just because we are kind of a moving target. So when we start to kind of get inspired in some direction we're not

really confined to you know i love slayer but slayer slayer right yeah they're not going to all of a sudden put out a country record yeah no that's kind of one of the cool things about i really enjoy what you're doing that you just do whatever the fuck you want to do you don't you don't have a box that you have to fit in you're just doing what you feel like doing like i know what i never expect you wearing a wig and playing this character. I mean, you ride it too, man. It's not like you just play it at the beginning. No, it fucking keeps coming back.

It's really funny shit, man. It's really funny shit. Thank you. What inspired you to make a half country, half comedy? I think just watching, you know, i think we talked about this last time like uh monty python movies right they're just they there's no you can't really pin them down right and like the meaning of life just you know it's that's kind of how we did this new dvd is there's a whole the whole documentaries at the beginning you know when you go out watch watch the DVD again, you can actually skip

the documentary if you want to, but it was important to see the documentary and see, you know, Billy Dee and Hildeberger so that you understood when they came back up later in the actual show, who the hell, who the fuck is that? Like, okay, if you didn't see the documentary, you'd understand who those people are. When you do

the live shows, do you play the documentary first? Do you play... documentary first? Yep. That's our opening band. That's a great idea, man. And the live DVD that you filmed, was that in Phoenix? Did you film it in Phoenix? Yeah, Phoenix. Still repping Arizona, baby. That's where we are.

Have you seen the, there's been a lot of camera trap photos of jaguars. They're starting to cross the same paths from Mexico into the United States that the drug guys do. Jaguars the cars? No, no, no. Jaguars and the native North American giant cat. Yeah, yeah, there's, well, we have, I guess, what are they called, pumas? Mountain lions. Yeah, they have the mountain lions up around us,

but I haven't actually seen the jaguars coming up. Yeah, there's not that many of them, but they're starting to take photos of them on camera traps. Apparently a long time ago they were a native species in North America, and now they're starting to make its way through your town. Excellent. Mm, indeed. So is winemaking season over for you now?

Yeah, I just wrapped up Had a good year A lot of interesting challenges A lot of stuff that came up That I wanted to try Stuff that was going to give me a hard time Kind of give me trouble That's another perfect example

Of you just not fitting in a box Oh, he makes wine You don't just dabble in it you have a fucking vineyard like a full-time set of employees a vineyard you produce an excellent wine a bunch of different ones it's really good stuff you know what you're doing it's i mean you just threw yourself into winemaking yeah i mean that's one of those you know you could pretty much read the back of a yeast packet to figure out what to do to inoculate fruit. But to really actually learn how to make wine, you just have to dive in.

I suppose you can go to college to get all the nuances and be taught how to make wine with fear in mind. But just dive in and make it. It's not that difficult to get over the first basic hump of like the 101s of it. It's not that hard. Then, you know, after that, then it's like the nuances, the, you know, the upper percent of just intuition, instincts, you know. Do you mingle at all with the people in the wine world? Like, do you communicate with other people in the wine industry and go to conferences? I've got guys on speed dial that I know that are world-class winemakers from around the world.

And if I have a question that I think that they've seen the answer to or seen that challenge or seen that hurdle, I will not even hesitate to text or call or write or email or, you know, something just to go, okay, so here's the challenge or here's the thing I'm going to try. And based on, you know, the kind of fruit that we get, because the fruit we get is not like you would get in Napa or get in, uh, necessarily get in, uh, New Zealand. It might be more specifically like Adelaide Hills, but not necessarily the Barossa, you know? So there's, there's, you know, different stuff, parts of Spain, Verosa. So there's different stuff.

Parts of Spain, maybe. Parts of Italy, maybe. Do you do anything to your soil? Or do you just let it be what it is? For the most part, you have to kind of give it some food now and then, some kind of nutrients that are not going to cripple. You don't want to give it steroids or anything like that. But you want to give it something that it needs if it needs a little extra dose of something.

So what do you do? Do you add, like, minerals or...? Yeah, yeah, if there's something that it's kind of short on. How would you know? You take petioles, you take the, you know, samples from the plant, you take samples from the soil. We have, for moisture, we have a pressure bomb that pressurizes the leaf to see if to see how much moisture it actually needs today.

Wow. And you give it like, if it wants 10, you give it 9. Yeah, that's a thing about the grapes for wine. They're supposed to suffer a little bit, right? Why is that? It just gets them stronger. I mean, you know, you train jujitsu. You know, there's suffering involved. You're not going to get anywhere unless you are pushed a little bit.

Even as a grape. Even as a grape. How many years? Even as a celery, Joe. Even as a celery. I see. I see now it all becomes clear. How many years you've been doing this now? I broke ground around 2001, 2002, made my first wine in 2004. I find that absolutely fascinating. I've never once heard of a rock star who decided to not just make wine.

I mean, I suppose Sammy Hagar has a tequila, right? How much is he really involved in it? Is Sammy out there harvesting agave you know is he uh is he pressing it and and yeah i don't know i think so okay i don't think so he's definitely not doing what you're doing man no you're i mean because you know for me i have i have uh my staff in the tasting room so basically come to jerome there's like you know there's a staff of people that you know of course rotate but uh we have ch Chris Turner is like my right-hand man in the vineyard. I'm not a vineyard guy.

I'm in the cellar. So Chris has his team of people in the actual vineyard making sure that they all have their finger on the pulse of what I'm looking for in the grapes to make the wine. We have, of course, our shipping staff and the business affairs managers and stuff. But in the cellar, it's just my wife and and I it's just us making the wine pressing the grapes inoculating so there's not actually a staff of people in the actual cellar cuz that's my house Wow so it's just us doing it so I don't think people quite understand like he can't make it it's it's harvest so wanted his employees handle that there's I don't quite think you've been listening to me.

There's nobody in the cellar but me. I mean, we have a couple guys. I have a friend down the street that comes up and cleans up after me. I have a guy that comes out at the beginning of the season because I'll buy some new equipment that I don't know how to use. I go, Greg, make that work. He'll go, okay, I'll read the directions. We hate reading directions, so I'll just have Greg figure out how to make that go.

How do you piece together a team? Like when you decide that you're going to start making your own wine, you get a piece of land, you decide where you're going to grow grapes, you decide how the fuck do you piece together a team to create wine? It's like anything else. It's hit and miss. You've got to just figure out who has natural talent toward it or are willing to do all the work

even if they're not even naturally. I mean, my wife doesn't. She's not a chemist. But she works the lab. I went, guess what you're doing? So she's like, I am. So you're nine years into production essentially, but 10, 11, 12 years into this project.

Is it still challenging for you? Do you still enjoy it? Yeah, because every year that I'm making wine on my own, previous years like from 2004 up to about 2009, I had other people I was kind of like looking over their shoulder and trying to be involved in doing it. But until 2010, like part of 9 but part of 10, until I was actually doing it myself, you're only like part of nine, but part of 10 until I was actually in, you know, doing it myself, uh, you're only going to learn that way. And so, you know, that's, that's just, you just dive in

basically. Wow. And now how many months out of the year does it take to do that? And then the rest you devote to whatever else like Pussifer or anything else you feel like doing? Anything else, yeah. Don't even look for me on August 1st. August 1st to November 1st, don't even look. I'm not around. I'm dug in. So for four months, you're gone. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you enjoy that, that you're committed to this, like, four-month project? For four months, you're accounted for. That's it. This is your life. Yeah. I mean, it's nice to know that know that you know i'm going to be sleeping in my own bed right and it's you know it's hard work you're up at you know i'm up at 6 30 doing punch downs and just checking things out make sure everything's you know not you know something didn't blow up or i forgot to seal something so it's leaking or you know there's just those those tragic things that kind of happen in this in the cellar that you look over there the

spout wasn't shut there's like Pinot Gris pouring onto the ground like fuck bonehead move ran over and shut it this is that it's it's such an interesting idea but I love the fact that you figured out a way as a musician to guarantee that you're home for four months. You know, like, people don't know, musicians or comics, that fucking road gets sad, man. It gets so boring. And it gets so weary. It gets grueling. Your body just like, you know, as you go forward in time, there's no going back in time.

Your back doesn't get, you know, doesn't get stronger from the journey. It gets weaker. Yeah, especially the travel. We were talking about a guy that you know that had a blood clot from an airplane ride and was feeling like shit. And I was telling you how I flew back from England and got sick. The flights, every flight is like going on a bender. It's like getting hammered.

Every one of them is just like wrecking your body like, oh, and skidding in the home plate. That was fun. Dumbling in the bed. Not at all. Yeah, it's very weary. It really beats you down. So then when that's over, November's done, do you just chillax for a little bit? Last couple years, no, I would jump right into, you know, doing some stuff with Perfect Circle or Pussifer.

If the guys were ready with the tool, I would work with them. Or maybe we'd go out and do some quick tour or something. And that's only just to kind of, you know, keep it alive. And because you've done some work that you need to kind of tidy up and do something with. Like, we came out with Conditions of My Parole, and I had to, like, I had to promote that record. So I had to get on the road right away in November. That was a couple years ago. And in between, you had some jiu-jitsu.

Yeah, that was the fun part this year. Poor Matt Mitchell from Poster Free came out to record some tracks with me. And I'm up at 6, 7 out there doing my thing, and then I would come in and we'd try to work on a song or work on some tracks, and he was helping record some stuff. And then I'd go, I gotta go, I gotta quickly stem this fruit, and then at 11.45 I gotta drive down the hill because I gotta go do jujitsu from noon to 1. And then I'll be back up here at 1.15.

We can do a vocal, but then I've got to press the Chardonnay. He's like, who the fuck are you? And he's known you from long before this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I toured with him. The first time I met him was on Perfect Circle Tour. So what do these people think that have seen you pre-wine and post-wine? Are they like, did they think originally like, oh, this is just his new thing, he'll do it for a little bit,

and then it's probably, you know, it'll last a year or so. Twelve years later. Twelve years later. How many bottles do you make a year now? I did about, I'm horrible at math. This year I did about 6,500, 7,000 cases in my cellar. Holy shit. That's incredible.

How many acres are you growing on? In northern Arizona, right now I have planted 40, just under 40 planted, and only about 10 of those are actually producing at the moment. Southern Arizona, my sister company, Arizona Stronghold, I have access to fruit from our vineyards down there. So there's a lot of growers all over the state, and there's growers just over the border into New Mexico as well, just over from those counties. So there's also kind of a mirror image terrain over in New Mexico

with even more established vineyards than we have in Arizona. So 40 acres you're planting on, but only 10 of them you're actually harvesting fruit from? Yeah, and probably by next year I'll see a little bit more from the other 30, and then by 2015 I'll see full production from everything. How does that work? Do you have to do something to the soil? Do you have to just get the grapes used to it? Just plant it and it takes you three to four years to see fruit off the vine once you plant it. Really? It's a commitment in time for sure. So you plant it and

is it just a matter of it growing or is it? Establishing. You want to make sure and it all depends on what you're kind of going for. You know if you want if you want uh to plant like tighter spacing and set fruit a little earlier on the plant when it's younger so it doesn't quite get big and it kind of like almost stunt its growth in a way you get some really concentrated fruit on on on a smaller on a smaller vine if but you've seen some that are like these huge old school vines there's different schools of thought on that you got guys that pull out everything and in uh 20 to 30 years they'll just pull everything out start over because the vine might produce you know an eighth of what it was producing when it was younger and if it's not great i mean if it's like producing an eighth of you know that fruit and it's fantastic just

undeniable fruit well yeah hang on to it but if it's not most guys are pulling it out starting over do you find that this whole process you know the whole process of creating this new thing and then and then getting involved in this completely new endeavor does that do anything to the rest of your creativity do you find that it opens up new possibilities for other things that you create i get i get a i mean it opens yeah it opens up other stuff because you know when you're it's a whole different kind of creativity and you're, when you're, when you're in the cellar and you're just hovering over some of these wines, you, you're having to be kind of, you know, uh, you have to have the tech, you know, the technique down, you have to understand the process that you're going through, but you also have these opportunities to go,

okay, I have to make a creative decision right here there's like a there's a challenge that's come in something comes in extremely ripe that you didn't expect it coming in extremely right because they just were the numbers were just all over the map the sugars are extremely high and it's just probably not even I finish fermenting it's so ripe and then you have something come in it's a completely under ripe and you go hmm if I put these together they together, they're right at the right number that I want, rather than trying to finish something that's not high enough sugar and something that's way too high sugar.

You know, there's little moments like that that happen that you just didn't expect and you can't plan. It's just chaos, and you just have to navigate the chaos. Were you, like, a big fan of wine before you did this, or is this just something that you just decided to slowly but surely step into um i i guess i had a great grandfather who made wine in northern italy but i didn't know that until i was actually planting grapes wow so you just dove in dove in yeah i know but i was into wine a little bit you know back and i lived in boston for a while so i you know i enjoyed wine with my friend kurt he worked have worked at a nice Italian wine shop so he'd always bring stuff home on the weekends and we'd you know he would grill

and I would drink this wine and you know years later go oh wow that was pretty I think we're drinking some pretty awesome wine yeah I don't know shit about wine I have a really good friend he's a real connoisseur. He has this gigantic room in his house that he constructed that it's digitally set to a certain temperature. And I mean, he has this ridiculous collection of wine. He's in the LA area? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He lives in the Palisades and he's got, I mean, he built this room onto his house before he moved into this house. I mean, he's a nut. And he can look at wine lists and tell you what's good this year, into this house. I mean, he's a nut. And, you know, he can look at wine lists and tell you what's good this year, what's not.

I mean, he's constantly on top of it. And he took me to a wine testing for his birthday. Wine tasting, you know, they brought off different flights of wine. And it was all good to me. But hearing people describe it, it's baffling. The fruity taste, the tannin, the smoky mixture. Yeah, but people don't really get, you don't have to know any of that stuff.

If you know somebody that owns a cool shop or has a nice tasting room, like Matthew over at Covell, just go talk to Matthew about what they have on their list. Or go to Silver Lake Wine or talk to Randy or April or George to go okay what's open you know when you have their tastings and they just take notes on you have stuff in front of you okay write down did I like it did I not like it did I like it that I not like it just write down what you liked and what you didn't like and why if there's just a couple words like I didn't like that because of this or i like that because of this write it down and then you just show them like write down have them write down what the wines were that you had and not so much for you but for them and come back again and do it again for some other flight or whatever and once you have some notes down they're going to

start to get figure out what you might like and then they're going to go okay try this or try this and then come back and tell me if you liked it or not i like i tend to like like the fruitier like a pinot noir like that kind of wine and just and again you know don't even gravitate toward the pinot just like just taste stuff and then write down what it was and start kind of keeping a log or something of what that was. Because if you have a pretty good intuitive person working at one of those wine shops, they can kind of go, okay. Having poured you, you know, a hundred little tastes over the last couple months, we've narrowed down what you like. Do you see yourself going into whiskey next? Dude, I love Angel's Envy.

Angel's Envy? What is that? Can I plug? Sure. Envy? What is that? Can I plug? Sure. Why not? What is it? It's a mellow bourbon aged in port barrels. It's super mellow.

In port barrels. So they take the port, it pours out, and then they make the biscuit. Wow. They buy the barrels from somebody. How does that affect the taste? What is it supposed to do to the taste? I couldn't tell you. I'm not a whiskey guy, but I like that one. That's it right there, Angel's Envy?

There you are. Hello. Do you see yourself doing anything else? I mean, any other crazy ideas you have cooking in the back burner that you might get into? I cook a little bit, but I don't think I would actually, I wouldn't go be a chef. I would probably open up like a, you know, pizza place or something. I could see you doing that, though.

I could totally see you becoming a chef. So where? Well, it started out, I just wanted to open up a restaurant. And then here I am. Wow. Who wants pizza? And always in Arizona. Yeah.

Got a couple things up my sleeve in Arizona. Break up a pizza place. Northern Arizona is pretty fucking badass. Do you live near the mountains? I'm near Sedona. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's an interesting spot. Yep.

A lot of weirdos in Sedona. You think? A lot of people believe in crystal power. Yeah. Those are the people you just reach up and grab their leg and pull them down to the ground and stay here. What happens to people? How does that happen where you get a spot like Sedona, for say, where people gravitate towards their healers, in quotes? I don't know.

I have no answer for that. I have no answer for it either. I've always been fascinated, though. It's like, how does a spot like that come to be? Well, I mean, you can... If you've been in a decent-sized city, there's always going to be a spot. Like, for example, in L.A., okay?

You got Millie's over on Sunset. What's that? In Silver Lake. Millie's Cafe. Millie's Restaurant. It's a little breakfast place over on Sunset. It's always going to have a gathering of people in that spot. Yeah?

It's like that morning spot. I'm going to write that down. I've never heard of it. Millie's. Millie's on Sunset. Yep. Where? Sunset and what?

You know? Just... Say Silver Lake? Yeah, it's in Silver Lake. Just a side of Silver Lake Boulevard there's a lot of fucking cool spots down there

yeah a lot but that's that one that just like no matter what no matter who owns that spot there's always gonna be people gathering

in that spot for a cup of coffee or like some kind of you know sunrise kind of event a brunch you know if it's not called

brunch someday just like something even if it ends up being a doughnut shop There's gonna be there's always gonna be something there where people gather in that spot and you kind of have to assign some kind of value to That energy you're talking about it's a doughnut to like those little we'll call them vortexes, right? There's like there's some kind of gathering vortex at that spot. Well, I think a lot of those places, especially in L.A., they have this deep history of people returning to these spots. And then it almost gets like seeped into the wood.

Places like the Comedy Store or you ever eat at Dantana's? No. Fantastic place. It's one of the oldest school, old school restaurants in Hollywood. It's on Santa Monica, right near Boys Town. And it's this like super old school bar slash restaurant that hasn't changed the menu since 1966 or something like that. Cooks a fucking tremendous steak, has amazing pasta. The waiters all wear tuxedos.

It's just one of those like super duper old school spots. That's cool. Yeah. Hook's a fucking tremendous steak, has amazing pasta. The waiters all wear tuxedos. It's just one of those super-duper old-school spots. That's cool. Yeah, and when you go in there, it's like a Cantor's Deli. You ever been to Cantor's Deli? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that feel. That place has been used, man. It's in the—you feel it.

Yeah. You can't get that in a new place. I haven't been to Cantor's in years. Oh, it's a classic. That is a classic comic spot because it's open 24 hours a day. We go there all the time after food or after shows. Yeah, because the Largos are right across the street. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

L.A. has so many of those really cool old school spots that have just been around for so long. So I think that's, and I think, you know, back to our Sedona conversation, it's probably some version of that where those spots just kind of have that energy. And, you know, just in general, I was driving to L.A. from kind of the Sedona Prescott area, and I forgot that the Yarnell fires, they kind of had the road closed off, so I couldn't go that way. But I thought, you know, a month had passed, and I figured everything wasn't fine yet.

So I get to a certain spot, and there's, of course, a guy standing there going, psych, you can't go this way. So I had to backtrack, and then I kind of took another route that took me farther, kind of backtracked west-ish and kind of came back in. And there's an area out in that way where it's basically that kind of Sedona place where you go there, but there's no people. There's no cell signal.

There's no people. There's no cell signal. There's nothing. It's just these crazy moon rock, you know, setting with these Joshua trees and cacti just as far as the eye can see. And it's like these crazy rolling hills. It was like the coolest hour and a half, you know, added hour and a half to my trip. It was completely worth it. And when you see that kind of place, you can go, you can you can see how somebody who you know when sedona isn't there yet you can see how somebody would go i want to start something here there's an energy here that i want to like you know did you see that video those dopey boy scout guys who tipped over those 100 million year old rocks. Did you see this?

You know, I think it's called Goblin Canyon. There's an area of Utah that has these incredible rocks. Did they find the bodies? They made a video, these dumb fucks. They made a video of pushing over this 100 million. Did the rocks fall on them? Unfortunately, no. Do you see? Yeah, pull it up.

Is it too late? Pull it up. Yeah, it it too late yeah it's too late I don't think you can glue it back what I mean is it too late to to kill them I didn't say that out loud I did yeah they're too stupid to be held responsible

unfortunately but they did get fired from the boy scouts which yeah that sucks. But the point is it was one of these really cool ancient structures where it's this giant top, like a mushroom cap almost, and it's just all this wind and sand has eroded it to the point where there's this little peak that's holding this thing in place.

And it was so fucking cool looking. And these tools just decided to tip it over. Did you find it? What's that? There's ads on all these videos. There's ads on them? Of course there are because that's what happens when a video gets 10 million hits in a week.

Whoops. Yeah. No worries. No worries there for me. Those structures are so cool, though. It's so interesting when you see, like, something that's been created by hundreds of millions of years of erosion. I was in a cave in Colorado. There's the thing.

These things. So that's, like, that's 170 million years old or something like that, this structure. And these fucking idiots push this thing over. I mean, it's like a Coen Brothers movie. We have now modified Goblin Valley. The Goblin Valley exists with this boulder down here at the bottom. Woo! Look at what we're holding.

Muscles. You're hired. Pushed it off. Yeah. Cut it. So sad. But those things, that area, Goblin Valley, is another one of those sort of spots where you drive through it. It has such an impact.

Where it draws idiots. Interesting. Those fuckheads. Hopefully, people will learn from the reaction to this, and it'll never happen again. There's still a lot of really cool shit there. Right. I, one time, went on one of those publicity flights

for the Blue Angels. They took us. You go down to San Diego, and then from San Diego, you cut across deep into the desert, and it looks like that. It has all these incredible rocks and weird formations and desert. There's something badass about that, man. Is that the area? It's Gallagher, yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of those fucking things there. Yeah. And it's all just wind and erosion that's caused all this stuff. That's pretty amazing. Yeah, the desert southwest of this country has some really fucking interesting landscape and fascinating

energy to it, too. I'll try to text you or email you with the exact area that it was that I was driving through. Cool. But you, you know, you can basically make sure you bring water. Yeah. Cause for some reason, if you get, if you, if your car breaks down, there's no signal, you're not getting out of there. Yeah. What do you do? You have to wait for someone to rescue you. Yeah. Wait for you. There's, you know, there's people out there that you can, you got, you go by ranches and stuff. They're out in that area. Yeah, that's when counting on humanity gets very sketchy.

You don't realize how vulnerable you are until your car runs out of gas in the middle of the desert. And you're like, oh, shit. Okay, this is not just a matter of convenience. This is a matter of we might dehydrate to death out here. Yeah. There was actually a mixed martial arts fighter, former UFC champion Evan Tanner, who went on this sort of vision quest in Death Valley

and wound up getting disoriented and lost his water and died. Decided he was going to go camping. Don't do that. Don't get all, like, into the wild on people. Too late. Yeah, he did it. He died. No, that's not good.

Yeah, it was definitely not good. But he was an interesting cat. He was the type of guy that, you know, he was a, whether or not it was a smart move, it was a typical Evan Tanner sort of self-discovery type of a journey and he did a lot of those and most of them he came through but some of you know this one obviously didn't work out for him he was a fascinating guy though really interesting very deep thinker like a deep original thinker it's just you know these guys are always trying to test themselves Not just inside the cage, but in life period and for him There was I think a bit of a vision quest to go out there and one of the most extreme environments known

North America and and test himself or see find himself Yeah, I think but you know when you're gonna do a thing like that, you probably should prepare to be tested exactly It's like the end of Wild movie, the same thing. The movie's infuriating. The book is infuriating. The story's infuriating. There's a 7-Eleven right over there. Yeah, you don't have to do that, man.

Not only that, if you're going to do that, if you're going to do that Into the Wild shit, man, you should take, if you really respect nature, you should fucking prepare for it for a long time. You should really know what you're doing. I am in love with these subsistence shows, like these Alaska shows where these people live off the land and trapping and hunting and fishing.

But they fucking know what they're doing, and they've been doing it a long time. And they have cabins set up along the way in case they get trapped outside. They know that they just have to get a half a mile down the road they can get to this cabin there's there's dry wood inside of it they can start a fire there's matches everything's ready to rock and roll and over prepared exactly they're ready I mean they're in Alaska it's 50 fucking degrees below zero if you're a runner and you're like a you know a semi

distance runner like a four mile runner and you know like a, you know, a semi-distance runner, like a four mile runner or, you know, like a 10K or whatever. You do sprints and you do marathons for training. You do the extremes. Yeah. You do it often and you do it well and then you go do your race. Well, it's also, if you're going to, you really do respect that area of, you really do respect the wilderness. I mean, you got to prepare for it. You really have to prepare to respect it., I mean, you gotta prepare for it. You really have

to prepare to respect it. It's the only way you can respect it. Because by going out there unprepared, you're disrespecting it. And it doesn't give a fuck about you. It doesn't give a fuck about your ego. It doesn't give a fuck how, you know, a lot of guys might get lost out here, but I got a natural sense of the woods. It's not

hearing that shit. It's not hearing that shit. No. No. It'll dry you out and turn you into coy that shit. It's not hearing that shit. No, no. It'll dry you out and turn you into coyote food. Yeah, it's going to school you, for sure. Do you enjoy the fact that there's, like, less humans out where you are? Do you feel that there's a benefit in that? Yep.

There is, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, it's all a matter of perspective, and I guess it's a microcosm, macrocosm kind of situation where if you're in a big city like this, you're going to see a cross-section of a certain kind of people. My friend Todd today was just talking about the, talking in reference to just any kind of infrastructure or hierarchy.

You got your 10% that are kicking ass. You got your 80% that are just kind of coasting. You got your 10% that suck. So you're going to end up, if it's LA or if it's like a, you know, a foreigner population town, you're going to have similar percentages. There's going to be 10% that care and know what they're doing or want to know what they're doing, and then 80% that are just there, and then 10% that you just want to run over. That's the one good thing about being in a place like New York City or L.A.

where there's a large population is the 10% is a larger number. You can cultivate a good group of them. And yeah, you can, but you have to, you have to go out and find them. Yeah. You got to find them. You got to keep them close and you got to feed off of each other and then hopefully encourage some other people perhaps that are in the other 80% to break free. Maybe tip the numbers a bit. I agree. die 75 because we're all capable we're all capable of you know learning doing do you feel a responsibility for that or towards that as an artist do you ever feel like because of what you're doing because if you're you're so motivated you get so much done you have so many different projects going do you do you realize the impact

of that because a lot of people are inspired by the, the, not just the work ethic that you have, but the, how much quality shit you produce, whether it's wine or music or. I appreciate the compliment. Um, I think, I think you can't really worry about it. You just got to do what it is you're doing. And for me, I just have to do what I'm doing. There's a, there's a, there's a sense of responsibility for the art or for the process and just for myself. I care about what I'm doing. If I start caring about what you think about what I'm doing or whether it's going to be helping you, then I'm an assisted living employee. You said something in your video that was very unpretentious but had the potential to be massively pretentious.

But it wasn't because you were being honest. And what you're saying is that life is too short to not create with every breath you take. Right. But when you said it, the audience cheered. It was a real moment. You know, they recognized that real moment. But, god damn, the wrong person could say that. And you're like, well, you just shut the fuck up.

Create with every, oh, please. Yeah, I get that all the time. But you really mean it. If you really mean it, it is inspiring. And that's where the cheer in the audience comes from. Yeah. You know, people fucking love that. They love when someone is, like, motivated to make shit.

Motivated to put out art. art, motivated to test themselves creatively. It's exciting. And I have a lot of people around me, especially just within the music, within the film, within the animation, all those things. But especially in the vineyards and the restaurant stuff. I see people that are just, every day, I'm inspired by their work ethic. Because, you know, we were talking about a restaurant. That's not a whim. That's not something you can kind of just start on a whim and not expect to be responsible for keeping the boat floating.

That's like, you know, I see there's a restaurant in Arizona called F&B, Pavle and Charlene. And just watching what they go through, but not go through. That's the wrong way to put it. Their process. Their process and their motivation and their fire and their drive.

It's very inspiring. And then a lot of the winemakers that I know in the state as well, you're watching them go through their changes and you're watching them go where they discover a new thing about a new potential of what they can do and how much better they can make it. And, you know, just see, you just see that process. It's really inspiring. Do you watch any of Anthony Bourdain's TV shows? Do you know who he is? Yeah. He's, No Reservation show, and now the new show is... His wife trains with Henzo. Yeah, yeah.

His wife's good, man. I saw their kid training there when I was there last. Isn't that hilarious? Yeah, she's badass. She's at the fights constantly. I've never actually met Anthony, and I've seen some of the shows. He's a great guy. I heard he has a new one that's kind of fun.

Yes. What is it called? Part one that's kind of fun. Yes. What is it called? Parts Unknown? Parts Unknown? Yeah, and it's basically the same show, but this one he has more control of, and now it's on CNN. It's got a bigger budget,

but the show, the one that he had on a travel channel, was the first experience that I had ever had with chefs. Like, I knew that I liked good food and I kind of understand that it takes a special person to make good food, but I'd never understood how intensive the process is or how creative the process is. And I mean, he explores some really boutique restaurants where these guys grow their own food, hunt their own meat. And there's a, there's one place in Spain, I think it was.

I think it's closed. It was called El Bulli, where this guy was, this head chef was this legendary guy who brought in all these amazing chefs, and they would just create these fucking intense works of art, these small plate works of art that were just so unique and inspiring. Made me want to write jokes, you know?

Made me want to expand my comedy routine. Right, right. But at the same time, as intense as they are about those unique dishes, you'll also catch them eating a bowl of popcorn. Yes. Yeah, why not? Well, Bourdain's a big one on street food. He loves, like, street tacos and shit.

I mean, why not? Why be pretentious about it? It's all about the full spectrum of these. I like that film, Perfume. What is that? Was it dubbed? Yeah. Intense movie about this guy.

It's got a story of murder I think is what the title is, right? Is that right? It starts going off about this child who was born in poverty that had such an incredible sense of smell.

He didn't differentiate bad smells from good smells. He just could smell everything and he was very good at like deciphering all these all these smells and you know so it's a i'm not gonna spoil it for you you gotta see i'm not gonna watch it you can spoil it it's awesome is it really good this is the trailer right here it's pretty awesome it's uh it's pretty intense dude's a creeper he's a creeper And it's pretty intense. Dude's a creeper.

He's a creeper. I think it's got Dustin Hoffman on it. I read about a polar bear today that they train, or a dog they train to smell if polar bears are pregnant. You have to. Just stop and think of that. How specific is that? A dog trained to tell if polar bears are pregnant. So it just kind of sits around,

almost like a firefighter, kind of waiting for a fire. Das Parfum. Ooh. Good movie? You recommend that? Yeah, I do. Okay, I'll get something. I got a flight to Kentucky tomorrow. I'll throw that bitch on the laptop. It's pretty fun. I think you'll enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, I'll recommend another movie you won't enjoy.

Okay, sounds like a good deal. A dog that can smell if a polar bear is pregnant. A dog that can smell if a polar bear is pregnant. They say that the best way to describe how good a dog's nose is is skunks. Because that's the one time where we can smell parts per million. A skunk is so strong that we actually can catch that scent from blocks and blocks away. Very much like a dog can smell things. Okay. Yeah, which is pretty an interesting way of exploring the idea

because otherwise it seems like intangible. Well, yeah, when we have javelina around Arizona, and as soon as the javelina come anywhere near the vineyard or near their yard, the dog is up. Yeah. He can smell them already. Well, they're scary animals. Not even in the yard yet.

They're up and they can tell. Those are freaky things, man. You ever seen when they hunt javelinas? It's pretty intense. They're one of the few animals that when you call them, they come running. Like if you make a sound like an injured animal, they don't sort of like sneak around or try to start.

They come running straight towards that sound, and then they realize there's a person there. Yikes! They haul it and turn around and run the other way. But they supposedly taste great. They taste very much like a wild pig. Yeah, but it's one of those situations where if you don't

field dress them properly, they've got some weird glands that'll just ruin all the meat. You cut the wrong gland and it's done. Yeah. You ruin the meat. Probably the tarsal glands. Yeah, they're stinky fucking animals.

But they have to be, man. They have to be wild, hardy bitches. They're living out there in the desert, man. That's what they look like. Just like a freaky, small, wild pig-looking thing. And people keep telling me that they actually have more in common with a rat than a pig. Yeah. But that looks like a fucking pig to me.

Yeah, it looks like a pig to me, too. But I guess a rat kind of looks like a pig, too. They're just small. I have no desire to eat them, so they must not be a pig because I love a bacon. They apparently taste really good. They taste very much like pig. Wild pig is supposed to be the best. I've never had a wild pig.

There's got to be some place in L.A. that serves javelina. Some place in L.A. has to serve javelina. You would assume, right? Let's find out. I bet it's really hard to get commercial javelina, though. You'd have to hire hunters to go out and get it for you. What kind of a supply could you actually get? What's that place that's up in Malibu?

It's like that kind of game restaurant. Oh, yeah. The Saddle Peak Lodge. I wonder if they have it. I don't think so. I was there recently. They have elk and venison and things along those lines and pheasant. I don't think they have. Javelina is pretty, that's pretty freaky. You got to go to like New Mexico to get javelina. I must call them and say, step up.

Yeah, call them and say, listen, man. I'll come in. If you have. Javelina tacos. If you have polar bear, you know, period sniffing dog steaks and javelina. There was a website that was selling exotic meat from animals like lions. They were selling lion meat and also javelina cantina. What is that? It's Sedona, Arizona. Oh, do they really sell javelina there, though?

Probably not. No, that's like a Friday's. That's a TGI Friday's. But in Arizona, it's more like a Thursday. They take a day off early, a little more laid back, a little longer weekend. It's hot. Yeah, it's hot as fuck in the summertime, man. And then you got that Sheriff Arpaio dickwad.

You know who that guy is? You don't know who Sheriff Arpaio is? You guys have the most controversial sheriff in the entire country down south around tucson he's the guy that puts everybody in pink underwear and uh pink jumpsuits and and has the men stay outside in tents no air conditioning that's bad make some work um it sounds like it sounds like college i think it's more there's more butt fucking than regular college okay i think it's more butt-fucking than regular college. Oh, okay. I think he's just this really controversial, conservative guy.

Yeah, see the photo of these guys? He puts them in this clean and sober, I guess. He had Mike Tyson in one of those, apparently. And didn't get knocked the fuck out? No, I mean, he's pretty insulated by the time you get to him. There's quite a few people with guns in the way. True.

But he's famous for sort of representing Arizona. We have a lot of those people. Like the governor, that Jan Brewer chick? She's one of the few people that I've ever seen give a debate where I was like, hmm, I could be a governor. I was listening to her talk and I was like, I could do that job.

I could definitely beat her. George Bush wasn't enough? You had to wait until you heard Jan Brewer speak? No, I don't think I could be president. I have too many skeletons. But I could be a governor i could totally they'll let you get away with a few skeletons if you're a governor true i mean none of them are bad i've never done any real crimes i don't have any bodies or anything like that it's all drug use for be questionable i've said a few things said a few things might come back to haunt me but nothing but i watch her give debates.

I'm like, oh, this is hilarious. And then she won. I mean, I watched a debate where she was just absolutely stumped. Yeah, I realized I could beat this chick. All I have to do is prepare a little. This ain't hard. How the fuck did she win? How is she your governor?

How is that? I don't know. You didn't vote for her, did you? No. How far away is the place you train jiu-jitsu? Is it a real town? Yeah, it's in Cottonwood. So it's a small dojo.

Brazilian jiu-jitsu, it used to be one point in time, it was super hard to find a good jiu-jitsu gym. Guys would buy VHS tapes and train each other. Now it's so amazing. There's guys in Prescott now. There's guys in Cottonwood. I think there might be guys in Sedona, amazing. There's guys in Prescott now. There's guys in Cottonwood. I think there might be guys in Sedona, but there's definitely guys in Prescott and Cottonwood. Well, Arizona itself is a huge hotbed for mixed martial arts.

You've got The Lab, which is where Benson Henderson comes from, John Crouch's place. Then you've got Power MMA, which is where Aaron Simpson, C.B. Dalloway, a lot of big-name MMA fighters, a lot of guys come out of Arizona. You guys have Megaton Studios there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really interesting how that sport has opened up the door for not even people that want to compete in MMA, but people that are just interested in exploring martial arts. You know, the amount of legit martial arts schools is probably at an all-time high in this country now.

Yep. Yeah, I would agree with that. I just got back from training with my friends in St. Louis. That was... I hurt my wrist. Derp, derp, derp-de-derp. How much training do you do when you're on the road? Do you, like...

On the road, it's harder. Way harder. I mean, if we have a day where we can go in and train and we have like a nice day off or a day off, you know, two days off, then I can risk it. But, you know, to go in and just, there's a time, you know, when would you do it on a show day? There's just no way.

But you've been involved in one form or another at least peripherally in martial arts for a long fucking time now right yeah i saw a photo of you with bj penn back when you know he was like a purple belt i got i got injured in like 2003 or 2002 actually before that and then i just kind of compounded, and then I had to just stop around 2003. That was the back thing, right? Yeah. This is what I got drawn out of my blood. This is what pushed me over the top and gave me the flu. I'm going to pull this up for you.

You can see this fucking ridiculous amount of blood they sucked out of my body. Come on. Yeah. Jello shots. Let's go. That's what they take and heat up and then spin in the centrifuge and i'll let you know how it works out but i've been dealing with a back injury for the past uh all together for about four four or five years now but pretty bad over the last year and a

half on and off and started to get like numbness in my hands and things along those lines where I was realizing that my nerves are getting in impeded and smushed and right I realized I had to do something about it so I don't have any of the the symptoms anymore but uh this is supposed to do an amazing job yeah I did it in Santa Monica okay well they do it in Germany and that's where I was going Dana White has been going over there. He has Meniere's disease, which is something to do with the inner ear. It makes vertigo and tinnitus. He gets this ring in his ear and literally can't stand up, loses his balance. But the guy who developed this process in Germany trained a bunch of other doctors, and now they're doing it in Santa Monica as well.

So I just went in today. You're my guinea pig then. I'm in. I just got the first injections today, but I'm with you. Old dudes with back problems. Salute. Hey. So one thing that does suck about training is that your body is your vehicle.

It's not a race car. It's just fleshy. Well, just in general, wrestling and jiu-jitsu, it's just brutal. It's not just going into a gym and there's a direction that this weight machine moves, and that's it. Yeah. It's every direction. That's why it's so critical to find good training partners you know just like we were talking about cultivating good friends

cultivating good training partners is another one like there's a few guys at uh 10th planet jujitsu that i know i can count on to not spaz out to be technical and i'm still learning that you know even even now it's like i'm so used to my wrestling background where it's like go, go, go. And I'm having to go slow, slow, slow. Yeah. If you ever watch like really high-level guys go at it, one of the more fascinating aspects of it is it looks like there's very little effort being applied, you know, especially when they're sparring. A little bit more so when they're competing. When they effort being applied you know especially when they're

sparring a little bit more so when they're competing when they're competing you know they're going after it but when they're sparring like a lot of times these guys are just sort of rolling around it seems like they're flowing it's like walk walk sprint walk yeah walk never give the guy a position where he could sprint to the finish line. Always make him, he's got four or five steps before he can sprint because a regular person won't see the difference between that, between the, the, the, just what looks like casual rolling. And even though they're casually rolling, he's always going to be two or three spots away from the finish line. It's chess. Yeah, it really is. And that's something that I've found, like we were talking about things that inspire you creatively.

I get inspired by people who have a lot of discipline for jiu-jitsu. I get inspired by people that are constantly creating and putting a new slant on that. And that jiu-jitsu is very much an art form. I mean the word martial art it seems wrong to people that don't participate in it like the word art seems like the wrong thing but when you do it you realize like if you watch it and you see if you have an aptitude for you understand it you see what's going on then you watch someone's really good at it it becomes beautiful and then it does become an art it is something not just an art as far as like something creative but an art

like as in something visually beautiful and very very inspirational man i think and it's also another one of those things that i think like creating wine like putting together a band like putting together a comedy act, like writing a novel. Like these things that we do when we put our thoughts and our creativity into something, they sort of, they don't just exist in a vacuum. But they sort of enhance all the other aspects of our life too. I agree. Yeah. aspects of our life too. I agree. Yeah. And just in general, I mean, there's that, just that whole just physical aspect of making the blood go through your system and being in shape. You just start, you start thinking more clearly, you're more creative. Uh, you can kind of, you can kind

of solve puzzles better. If you're just, if you're, if I notice, if I just, if I just need a break and I just start slouching off, it starts to kind of compound. Yeah. If I don't get back into something, walking, running. No doubt. Do you ever fuck around with yoga? A little bit, yeah. I need to do more.

That's one of those things that I just feel like it's the, that's the, that's the on the to-do list that I just keep being embarrassed about having to put it on the next to-do list. Yeah, that's one of those things that everybody always says, too. I need to do more yoga. We talk about yoga and, oh, God, I need to do yoga more. And it's an absolute embarrassing reality. I have to do more yoga. Yeah, I have a couple of good DVDs that I slap in the laptop on the road. yoga. Yeah, I have a couple good DVDs that I slap in the laptop

on the road. That's a very satisfying thing to do, to work out in a hotel room completely alone and do just a whole yoga class through a laptop when you get through it. It's a real feeling of accomplishment, because I could have just ate Doritos and watched TV instead.

Which is what I did last night. Yeah. It was actually Swedish fish, It wasn't Doritos. Swedish fish? Those are rare. When you have those nearby, it's really tough to say no to them. That's what I'm saying. Like, ooh, Swedish fish. I can do yoga or I can have these.

Well, you can do both. That's where it gets hard. I was out of town, so, you know, when I'm in a hotel out of town and my wife's, you know, wherever she is, it's my opportunity to watch, like, all the stupid movies that she just won't watch while I'm around. Like what? I watched that new Riddick movie. I saw that.

Babooma. I saw that with my daughter. She was looking at me like, what the fuck did you take me to see? I'm like, I'm sorry. It's so awful. It's so bad. I watched the whole thing. It's so bad.

I watched the whole thing. Yeah, so bad. I watched the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah, it was one of the worst movies. Laughing the whole time. Laughing at myself, knowing that she's probably laughing, knowing that it sucks so bad, and here I am watching the whole thing and just laughing at myself for watching it.

The craziest thing is the first one was really good. And I tried to explain that to my 17-year-old after we saw it. The first one was good. Near Dark was a good fucking movie. That is a good, scary science fiction movie. But somewhere along the line, what is this, number four?

I can't tell you how many times I've watched Chronicles. Is Chronicles good? Well, my wife doesn't think so. There's something going on now, man, with science fiction movies where there's so much CGI

and they can get away with doing so much on the screen visually that I'm detached. I'm not feeling, like, I went to see Star Trek, the last Star Trek one,

Into the Darkness, whatever the fuck it was, and I was like, this is just a bunch of things happening. I have no connection at all to any of these last Star Trek one, Into the Darkness, whatever the fuck it was. And I was like, this is just a bunch of things happening. I have no connection at all to any of these people. The first one I was pretty connected with. Not bad, yeah. But the last one was just like

just a series of things happening in front of you where you don't give a fuck. Right. You know, it's just they're almost Well, I guess, you know, it comes down back to the art yeah if you if you see somebody taking even a mediocre script and just running with it like you see when you see an artist kind of taking those being able to tell those stories to where

you just believe it like you know i i don't know if i used this example with you last time, but I just saw it again this season of Sons of Anarchy, watching Kim Coates fully get an erection over Walton Goggins in drag. And it's just, you know, Walton Goggins has fake tits, and he's, you know, like a mask because he's trying to get his son back, and, you know, the lipstick's all smeared, and, like, you know, Kim Coates is trying to figure out how he's going to date this dude. It's just such an awkward, but they completely sell it. All the way, you're convinced he loves her.

And it's like, not a her, it's Walton Goggins with fake boobs. There you go. That's hilarious. I haven't given that show a chance. Try to find a shot of Kim Coates staring at him, her. It's incredible. Now, is he supposed to be a transsexual or a transgender or a transvestite? I think she still has her previous equipment, but also has tits.

So are the tits, are their implants or their hormones implants I don't know hmm they don't specify no probably they don't really say I don't think yeah the only thing that'll throw you off with those things is the dimple size and jet men generally don't have the right nipples for boobs like that so So when you see them, and they used to be a man. Can I go? I'm just trying to give you advice, bro. If things get dark, don't get sensitive. If shit gets weird, the transgender community is there for you.

You sound like you've done a lot of research on this. I have, unfortunately. I'm fascinated by gender identity. I'm fascinated by people who decide that they... Well, then you'll love... And you can see why they brought... There he is. He's got his arm around her now. Wow. That's the best I could find. That's awesome. But you can see why, when it first came up, they were just using this tranny to blackmail a dude.

were just using this this tranny to blackmail a dude and even in that scene uh the character tigs uh kim's like just was so distracted by what was like they were supposed to just be doing his job and he's just he was so fascinated with this person and you could see why the writer put it put him back in to a later season because anybody who's watching that show went, bring her back. That was awesome. And now he's now. Oh, wow. Babooma.

Oh, wow. How did they do that? So that's the dude from The Shield. Yeah. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. And Justified. I'm missing out.

I need to start. He's one of my favorite actors. But I think he's a great actor. That dude act his ass off he was fantastic in the shield too mm-hmm I think I'm like season what season like six or seven yeah I can't catch up now it's too late it's just daunting it's too much fun yeah I don't know I can't do you watch anything else on TV this stupid no I because I mean I watch I watch all kinds of stupid shows, but I'm always looking at, like,

if I find out there's an actor that I like in a thing, I want to see how they're dealing with the puzzle they've been dealt. That's kind of like why I'm even watching it. I just want to see... The craft of... Or you hear a rumor of, like, watch this fucker unravel. Because you can hear some of these,

this particular actor is having some issues, so you'll want to watch the show to see if you can get a whiff of the crazy coming off them. Like, what do you mean? Maybe they're getting into pills or something, and it seems just trying to hold it together. And you can also, two episodes later, there's a new character that could potentially take over that person's position.

Oh, that's funny. Thinking of building an end to the script to go, okay. So you add the background. You add a little flavor. Yeah, just to see how that's going. Well, it's a common issue, especially the pills. Yeah. It's poor fucks.

Yeah, and it's hard to want, you know, I have a lot of friends that go through that kind of stuff, and that's one of the hardest things to get out of your system. You'd probably rather, you know, you're better off trying to get off heroin because the pills just go deep. Yeah, well, the pills essentially are heroin. I mean, that's what they are.

They're opiates. And they leave a lot, they just do damage. Yeah. Major damage. And they prescribe them like they're giving out free gum. I mean, it's amazing how many people are on prescription painkillers in this country and how many of those painkillers are opiates and how many of those people are addicted to those opiates. We're fucking weird when it comes to that, man, without a doubt.

That's one of the most disturbing aspects of our society, the amount of pills that people consume. It's dark. And when you see someone that you care... It kind of started about a generation before us with the Valium all of a sudden. Sure. Rolling Stone song, Mother's Little Helper. Yeah, she goes running for the shelter.

Yeah, that's when they first found out that you could live a shitty life and get through it with some sort of medication. And just medicate yourself and dull the angst and dull the desire to free yourself from this fucking hellish existence. Or just go do something. You could definitely do that too. Just go do something. Yeah, I wonder how long it's going to take society to figure that as a whole so that'll be a thing of the past do something without expecting to be compensated for just do it because you want to do it yeah no that's great advice for some people i

think they have a hard time finding something that they actually enjoy doing too well you're so conditioned to want stuff to have you know like you know the fluff around it from the glory days or whatever you forget to just you know work harder for less to just enjoy your what you do you have children now i have i have a son he's 18 18 what is it like like seeing someone who you know you created who's about to enter into this crazy world as an independent? I mean, he's essentially on his way to being a man. He's 18. He's basically at the launching block of manhood.

Well, you know, he's way smarter than I am, so there's no—I don't have any worries about him finding his way. He's intuitive. He's, um, uh, personable. He, uh, is good at understanding social dynamics, but he's extremely smart. You know, he wants to go into, uh, chemistry and biology. So, but he's also an incredible cello player. So, um, he'd got a scholarship to, to play cello for a performance of high school, uh, for cello. And so, but he's not going to pursue cello for his college. He just, that's just an extra thing he does and he rocks at it. So I don't have any, I guess part of it is when you, my parents are, uh, my dad is, uh, just a very active person, very smart man and healthy. And so when I see him, when you kind of know where you've been, you know where you're going.

So I have a feeling that just having my son see what I did, see what my dad has done, he has, in a way, he has a good compass, good navigation skills. Yeah, the only concern that I have, the big concern, is that children today are growing up with so many more variables than we ever did and also much more potential for quicker learning because of the Internet. And with that, again much more potential for quicker learning because of the internet and and with that

again more potential more more possibilities more variables more things to think about it's like more more that could potentially be overwhelming right and i think most kids are i think there's like you know just my father was a high school teacher and by the time he retired it was basically because um they kind of pushed him out to get into a new person who wasn't going to question the curriculum. He was very adamant about making the people who came into that classroom. You had to make an effort in his classroom to pass the class. You couldn't coast. It wasn't anything that was like a multiple-choice question.

You were answering the questions, and you had to know know the material and you had to be on time. You had to put in over the course of the year. You're also doing homework and coming in with completed thoughts that were that counted towards your grades. And if you didn't complete all aspects of that in his class, you didn't do well. do well yeah if there's any one thing that you can in instill in a child that's going to guarantee them a healthier existence is an appreciation for work and appreciation for accomplishing things setting and accomplishing goals so so few kids are ever indoctrinated into that sort of ever indoctrinated into that sort of the way of life. Yeah, we didn't get to school unless he got up at 6 a.m. and snowblowed the driveway in the winter.

We weren't going to work. Where did you guys live, Boston? Michigan. Michigan. Yeah, I lived in Boston. Same sort of situation. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but our driveway was almost a quarter mile long,

so if we didn't snowblow the driveway, we weren't getting to the main road that was hopefully plowed. A quarter mile? Of snowblowing. Holy shit.

Well, luckily, it was snowblowing and not shoveling. Yeah. Motherfucker. Yeah. A quarter, and you're dealing with some serious snow up there.

Yeah, because it's on the Lake Michigan side, so you get a lot of... Oh, God, it's fucking cold. My senior year, we had seven days of school in January. What? That's hilarious. The blizzard would hit on Sunday or Monday and boom, dawn until Thursday.

Tell me, though, how awesome were snow days growing up? That's one thing people in California, Arizona... HBO, Mountain Dew, and Red Licorice. Bam! I used to look out that window, and if I saw a foot on the car outside, I'd be like, fuck yeah! And then you would call that

number. It was a number. They would list off the different towns where school was canceled. And if they got to Newton, I would would go fuck yes it was just this huge free day yeah that was a beautiful thing it was also the thing that i really appreciated a lot about uh growing up in a really fucking cold place despite uh on top of learning that you know there's a good to having really fucking cold, snowy days.

And that's you really appreciate the sunny days with a different vigor. Seasons. Yeah. But there's also the quiet. There's a weird quiet when everything's covered in snow that I don't think anybody will ever appreciate unless they experience it. Oh, yeah. It's amazing. When you're out there and it's like a full-on

snowstorm and there's just a foot and a half of snow on the ground and the trees are covered with snow, you don't hear shit. It's this weird, eerie ringing silence. Yeah, because it's a different, you know, if it's a rainstorm, of course you're hearing rain.

But just that floating snow, big chunks coming down, it's almost like an incredible sound barrier. Yeah. It just absorbs everything and you're just like, you're such like an isolation tank. Yeah, you hear like every now and then you hear like a car in the distance trying to get out of a driveway. Or your neighbor yelling, fucker won't start. Or your name would be like, fucker won't start. Yeah, I grew up in this area that was across the street from a river. And it was a fairly rural area.

And this giant park in the river was across the street from my house. And the street was pretty steep. And every time it would snow, or especially if it would rain that the street would become a hockey rink and i would watch cars drive down the hill and just right when they got to my house they'd be losing control and just bouncing off curbs i think there's something to learn about that and there's something about dealing with weather that i think is healthy for a person healthy for your character. Well, and I haven't driven a car in snow in, you know, decades, like for any length of time, but in Jerome, we get snow in the winter. And it's amazing to me how people just cannot

drive in it. We get it every year, you know, a little bit, sometimes a lot more, but having to like, I immediately just get my jeep and i go up to a point in the town where it's the problem spot and just park and wait because there's somebody that can't get up the hill or around the bend because i just can't understand not to slam on the gas so you park and wait to help people yeah because they're good because well i'm helping you know i'm not don't't. I'm not. There we go. Is that one of those ones where they do the crash thingy?

Not because I'm like some kind of helping hand type guy. Oh, Jesus. Look at this. Oh, Jesus Christ. That guy's getting. Doom. The cool thing about accidents in the snow is they just sort of bump into each other and slide around. No one's glued on the ground, so it's not the same kind of impact.

Right. Well, I go up there to help them out just because I know if I don't, there's going to be like 20 cars behind them that can't get where they're going. So it's just more a matter of like bringing a plunger to the to the shit show there's a certain amount of camaraderie too about when when things like that happen snow and people have to help push people's cars out of spots and things along that's another thing that people don't don't deal with in la the lack of weather in la is i think one of the reasons why people are so cocky because they never get humbled doesn't even fucking rain here you know i remember after the earthquake in 94 it's just when i moved here in 93 whatever it was i moved here right after that happened and i

remember people were so nice they were so humble it was a weird thing it was like it brought people together for a little bit weird that was a that was a strange experience yeah you know i was all you know steve martin the jerk out in the back with my dogs in front of me like you know like hearing the trees just like creaking around and all the car alarms like a symphony of car alarms going off it was crazy like hearing the glass shatter everywhere yeah freak me out yeah me out. Yeah, I missed it. I came right after it happened, but I got caught in one of the bigger aftershocks. I was in an apartment on North Hollywood, and my apartment moved around.

The best way I could describe it is if it was a refrigerator box. It just went side to side, side to side, side to side. It was made of nothing. And I was just going, holy shit. Were you up by like Blankersham, Vineland and Camarillo right there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where I was. That's where I lived.

Oh, no kidding. Right behind the blockbuster there by the Firestone. Yeah, I was like just, I guess it would be just east of Laurel Canyon, like deep down like Moorpark. I was on Moorpark. Yeah, you weren't that far from me. No, that fucking thing was just... I was outside nude with my dog as a merkin. Freaked the fuck out.

Yeah, and there was that feeling about like Los Angeles then where people were humbled. They were like a little nicer to each other. And I felt it again in New York right after September 11th. I remember I lived in New York in the early nineties. And then when I went back to New York, I remember like California, I'm thinking that people in California were like a lot more mellow and nicer than people in New York and people in New York always had that sort of hard edge to it. But when I went after September 11th, that edge was gone. There was this warmth to people in New York and a friendliness that I hadn't ever experienced here before. I was like, this is

really interesting. I'm like, there's a real tangible positive impact that this tragedy has had is that people are appreciating each other more. People are appreciating. Silver lining. Yeah. I think, you know, it's almost like people need perspective. They need to see negative to appreciate positive. You need to see those shitty Michigan winters to appreciate a good summer day. In California, every day is a great summer day. Today was a great summer day. It's fucking November 4th.

It's 82 degrees outside. You know, we're a little spoiled when it comes to that. People need nature. They need to see it. They need a fucking rainstorm to just kick your ass just to let you know this fucking thing can come down on you at any time.

I have no point. That's where it ends. I liked it. It's true though, right? I think that's the one curse. It's where it ends. I liked it. That's true, though, right? I think that's the one curse. It's almost like being born rich. You never have to deal with adversity in California. There's a lack of appreciation for the fact that you're actually on a planet, that you're actually a part of nature.

There's no seasons here, so you don't really get the chance to see that change. What a perfect place to put the factory of all things fake. If you really wanted to think about a great way to fuck up a culture, just take a spot where the weather never changes and then put cameras on people

and pretend they're interesting. Pretend they're amazing. Give them lines to say that they're way too fucking stupid. Oh, yeah. Convince them. Give them cocaine. Give them tons of money for pretending. Confuse the shit out of everybody.

Right. Make it so that they get in line first at the clubs. Everybody lets them in. They throw velvet carpets down and they walk on them and everybody cheers. Confuse the fuck out of everybody.

Right. This is the spot. And by the way, it never rains. And it never rains. It rained in Arizona this year. Did it? Yeah. Got a lot of good rain. Yeah, Arizona doesn't get much props, man.

It's not like when people talk about the cool spots in this country. Arizona doesn't get much props. Unless you're on a vision quest. Unless you're on, you know, unless you're on a vision quest. Unless you're on a vision quest. Unless you're looking for some solid peyote. Yeah. Some San Pedro cactus and a good sweat lodge. That's for you. Try to find your spirit. That's for the kids. That's for the kids. I don't fuck with that peyote. I've never fucked with peyote. I've heard mixed mixed reviews. Um, I've never fucked with that peyote.

I've never fucked with peyote. I've heard mixed reviews. You know, maybe. Maybe? I had a bald friend who had a good experience on it. Oh, yeah? Did he look like you? A little bit.

Not then. Not right then. Yeah, I'm a bit more of a mushroom guy myself. Mushrooms and tryptamines. But, hey, I would snub my nose at no peyote. This peyote is a weird one, too, because you can actually legally own the cactus. Not just own it, but you can buy it at hardware stores. You can go to Home Depot and get San Pedro cactus.

I'm pretty sure that's how you make it, right? I don't know. I was with some indigenous people who invited me into their ceremony. So it was quite a special moment. Yeah, I have no personal experience, but I have one friend that did it and said that he was in an apartment building and he was listening to people talk

that were easily five blocks away. And he was listening to every word out of their mouth. And he couldn't believe that he could hear it, but he was absolutely sure that he could hear it. God bless him. God bless Peyote. He woke up with one of those orange cones stuffed in his ear. Oh, thank goodness. Good.

No, he woke up trying to figure out whether or not it was a dream. You know, that's the problem with those hallucinogenic experiences. Even if it's an incredible beneficial experience, there's that wrestling match where you're like, was it real? What was that? And I try to get people to look at psychedelic experiences as this way like whether it was real or whether it wasn't real the experience was exactly the same so if you took mushrooms and truly did go to another dimension and communicate with ultimate

knowledge and and then and tune into the love of the universe tune into the the frequency of life and of progress and or whether it happened in your mind it's still the same experience right and it but you know I would if people are gonna do those things I think it goes back to what you were talking about before about understanding you know preparation yeah this thing you're gonna do having I think it goes back to what you were talking about before about understanding, you know, preparation for this thing you're going to do. Having respect for it too.

Having absolute respect for it and understanding what you're getting into and understanding when you get, you know, wherever you go, understanding how to handle just to kind of finding a center in yourself that can you kind of handle what it is you're seeing and try to stay out of fear stay in the moment stay away from fear and just you know just prepare if you're going to do those kind of things just prepare for the journey prepare for the journey and learn how to let go and if you are going to do those things do it hopefully with somebody who

knows what the fuck they're doing. Because if you start messing with that stuff and neither one of you know what you're doing, you're both going to be under that fog of fear. Right. You're both going to be terrified. But if one guy's like, dude, trust me, I've been here before. I know how to get out of this neck of the woods. Right. You're going to be okay.

Right. How much benefit have you had personally from psychedelic experiences? Um, I didn't you know, I didn't really Do a lot of it Compared to people that I knew that did a lot of it and didn't make it out Didn't make it out. There's a lot of guys, you know, you know, you've met them You know, you've met those kind of people that just they didn't quite make it out and it's kind of twisted them for for life how many people do you know like that dozens really yeah holy shit just you know they're just not they're never gonna just because of the whole nature of how it breaks down some of those barriers between your left and right brain

just metaphorically you know just just just how you think about your creative processes they can never quite get their feet back on the ground to understand what it what it means to actually do a thing rather than just you know imagine a thing so you know dozens of people like that and wouldn't know what was it was it like a series of trips or was it like... They just did too much. Too much. Too much, too long.

Just lived in that world for too long? Yeah, that is a problem. And didn't prepare. Again, didn't prepare for what they were going to do and see. McKenna always had the best advice when it came to psychedelics. Large doses infrequently. Right. Right. And, and prepare.

Yeah, prepare and don't do it all the time. Do it and then process. Figure out what can you get out of this. Again, it's contrast. Whatever journey you took, even if it's not on the psychedelics, even if it's like just some entire, you're going to go for a month to be silent in some you know some spiritual place and introspection and you know do a fast or whatever you don't want to you don't want to do that like you know 12 months out of the year that doesn't they don't

have any contrast with anything just go do it get intense about it prepare for it before you go and then be and and be ready to take a while to come out of it when you are coming back and then you live your normal life and do you feel like that like when you're creating wine or when you're putting together a dvd or when you when you take on a project that you're kind of on a journey like that as well? Absolutely. Everything that I've done, there's been some element of preparation attached to it. It's not something I just dive into.

And then every time those things are accomplished, there's this feeling of reinforcement of the process. Yeah, I mean, you know, everybody has a way to trick themselves into thinking they're right or, you know, kind of consistently put a particular process in to get some result back that reinforces the behavior. But, you know, aside from that, if you're just preparing properly, there's definitely a satisfaction from, you know, coming from, you know, even the happy accidents along the way, things you learned that you didn't think you were going to learn, stuff that was actually a challenge that you hadn't prepared for but you managed to get through, those are the kind of things that really kind of make those results satisfying. Do you intentionally seek inspiration, like through books

or through documentaries or anything? Not intentionally, but just, you know, I'll be reading a book or an article or seeing a film and somebody will use a word that resonates on some level. And I go, ooh, I'm going to write the word down. Then I might build something on that word. And not right now. It could be two years from now that I've gone back to that word. Right. So it's just following your own curiosity or interests,

and that eventually leads you to inspiration. Right. I mean, if you're into physics and just geometry and general chemistry, there's these structures that are already there in terms of the relationships between numbers and shapes and angles and just molecules. And they're very similar in respect to just emotional experiences, just life experiences, even just the journey from an infant to an elderly person.

There's a whole, there's very common angles and structure and commonality between those experiences that can be, can resonate. So if I see a word that for some reason resonates with me at the age of 35 or 40, I write it down right away because most likely there's some kind of geometry or resonance with that word that's speaking to me at this age in this stage of my life that I should pay attention to so I'll write it down and I'll see I'll explore more to see if it is in fact something that wouldn't be relevant when I was 20 might not be relevant when I'm 60 but it's relevant now so so I'll look at it and I'll build on it yeah that's an interesting thing about getting older and the the ideas that you come

across, these ideas are sort of cross-referencing with these other experiences that you've had in your life up to this point now. And now it resonates. Now it makes sense. Whereas at 21, it didn't mean a damn thing to you. A documentary on a guy making sushi when you were 21 would be like, what the fuck am I watching right but when you're 41 it's like oh okay this guy's kind of obsessed with this art there's something to this right this guy's making swords look he's making this he's folding the metal i watched a whole documentary on this guy making traditional style samurai swords and the incredibly intensive laborious process involved in folding steel, hammering it down, folding it, hammering it down.

Fascinating shit. Yeah. And that, like everything else, it's all just... There's no skipping any steps in that. Impossible. You know, weaving a rug properly. Yeah, making your own fucking clothes out of thread. Yeah.

Pulling, you know, weaving threads together. Like, they had to do that. That's what they did. You know, there's no other way. I watched this documentary on indigenous tribes, Inuit tribes, creating fishing nets. And that it would take them a year often to create one net a Fucking year you better have a couple already made. Yeah, you have to have a couple already made and you know That's the way you're eating. That's the way these fucking people are gonna eat goes back to those

Subsistence shows I'm absolutely fascinated with right. There's this one that I've been watching now. It's called life below zero and There's this one that I've been watching now. It's called Life Below Zero. And it's just these different families, families or individuals who live up in Alaska. And they go from one to the next and follow these people. And there's one tribe that's a man and a woman. And the woman is a native Inuit woman. And the man is American from the lower 48

and they have children together. And, you know, like they've lost family members because they fell through the ice and died. I mean, this is like this is real shit. This woman who's they're walking across the ice and they're like knocking holes into the ice to make sure that it's deep enough for them to walk. And they're with their children and they're going to put this net down underneath this ice and and feed it to each other on the other side of the river and they're going to catch fish and that's how they're they're all eating and there's no other way to eat and this is what they do and that's and that's their life and

there's something about it that's so fucking terrifying to you that just that just shut me down yeah that sounds cold oh it's fucking cold as shit man well you know this woman had lost two family members she'd lost one of her sisters and I think one of her brothers or maybe a cousin or something like that felt it was just gonna reach for a sweater yeah yeah it's it's it's wild shit man but to them that's life that's what they're do that's what they're doing. That's their existence. They're laughing while they're doing it.

I mean, I guess people just adapt and get used to it. But there's also this intense spiritual connection with their food that way. When they're pulling these fish out of this water and they're grabbing a hold of it and making sure it doesn't fall back under the ice, these fish out of this water and then grabbing a hold of it and making sure it doesn't fall back under the ice like there's this intense connection between this this animal this this creature that they just caught and we don't really ever get and and when they eat that animal there's also this intense feeling of satisfaction that goes with that that this substance living it's very very very man, very intense. We've lost touch with that because we have so much available to us,

you know, no matter where we look. Yeah. We've got, you know, food, clothing, shelters pretty much readily available. We've gotten a little lazy on that kind of stuff. A lot lazy. And I think it's a lot like what we were talking about in Los Angeles. I mean, Los Angeles is too goddamn easy. There's no weather.

You know, no weather. It's simple. Go to the supermarket. Everything's spelled out for you. Soft life. Soft life creates soft people. We've got to figure out a way to fix that. What's the way, dude?

Yeah. Reset. The only way, I think, is for people to figure it out on their own, to be inspired by people who have figured that out. You know, this marble is way smarter than we are, so when it decides that there's any even, you know, if the kids get a little too cocky, it'll toss a few tidal waves or toss a few meteors at it just to

just to reset it'll just reset and you'll go back to having to figure out what to do with your time not having your pda yeah i've always wondered if that's what it did with the dinosaurs if it if the earth looked at the situation was like those are too big this is a mess no one's gonna figure that out no one's gonna stop that they're stupid as fuck and they don't looked at the situation was like, mm, God, this is a mess. No one's going to figure that out. No one's going to stop that. They're stupid as fuck, and they don't have to get smart. They kill everything with their face.

They weigh 50,000 pounds apiece. Right. All right. You know what? It's time to throw an eraser their way. Yeah. I agree. I think that's probably the case. Eventually, we'll, you know,

how dependent we are on just everything digital and electrical. Yeah. Just a simple, natural, laterally occurring, you know, electromagnetic pulse will just fucking ruin people's lives. Yeah, one big fat solar storm that erases everybody's Kindle. Yeah, done. And go try to find a book now. A hundred years from now, try finding a book.

Yeah. Books would be like records Let's be like trying to find vinyl today. I Make vinyl do you know everything few people do right? Yeah, it's still pretty common We try to do every every there only a couple things I've released with poster for that to haven't come out on vinyl too because they were just digital but the Pretty much everything even yeah, even the remixes we'll do vinyl for too. There's a weird push now for not even just a digital copy of something, but in the cloud, to leave everything in the cloud.

Like have you seen these new Google Chromebooks? They barely have a hard drive. Everything's in the cloud. You're accessing your data. And I'm not being like, you know, grandpa trying to hang on to his, you know, his Betamax or 8-track tapes or anything like that. I mean, I honestly just like,

when I download stuff off iTunes, I have like a hard drive, and I just can't let go of the idea of just deleting it all and getting it later when I want it. Because, I mean, are we really going to watch those CSI Miami episodes again? Probably not. Probably not, but you feel better if they're sitting in a metal box on your desk. I paid for them, so why don't I have them somehow near me?

I'm just not willing to accept the idea that everything's in the cloud and that it's secure either. That's the other thing. I mean, they want you to put all your photos in the cloud and contacts in the cloud. Yeah, that stuff I was like, nah. Yeah, I don't believe you. Think about it before you print this photo out. Fuck you. What if I'm not going to have this photo if something crazy happens like that and it's lost?

Yeah. Something crazy happens like that, and it's lost. Yeah, and also the latest revelations that the NSA tapped into the Google Cloud and basically accessed everything that was up there, which is, you know, Google's all pissed off, but come on. You didn't see that coming? Aren't you guys at the front of the line? Don't you know what's possible and not possible? Personal interest? You seen that show yet?

No, what's that? I've seen it before. What is it? It's everything you're talking about. It was a show that just started a couple seasons ago, like maybe the third season or second, third season, I think now. Ben from Lost is on it. Oh, really?

Yeah, and it's all about him having been the engineer of this computer that was predicting national threats. And it takes everything. It takes every every camera it will access any camera that has you know that's in the system here's the cameras on your phones every microphone and it puts together all of this data looking at all the digital information and predicts like national threats and and but the trick you know the whole trick of the story is like nobody really knows about this thing at all it's so so self-contained that it inserts this information into uh into studies or you know when they're looking at someone or looking at somebody that was two weird people that was ben from lost and jesus that was jim caviezel yeah the uh passion of the christ

yeah that fucking nutty dude That dude thought he was Jesus Is that Candy Alexander in the back? No way Oh okay Wow So good? You recommend this? It was funny because everything about what this show is All of a sudden came out

With all this NSA spying They're like that's what they're doing already So this show is like Being a cutting edge thing There's this supercomputer doing all this you know all this NSA spying they're like that's what they're doing already so this shows like like kind of being a cutting-edge thing like going all there's a super computer doing all this stuff and they're like looking through the cameras and there's gathering all the information and all sudden you go no no they're doing that right now like this is this is not a this is not a stretch this is not a supernatural show this is like actually happening well it went from being something that a guy like Alex Jones

would rant and rave about to the reality of the day. And it, it happened within like a month. Right. You know, I mean, everybody sort of just realized like, Oh shit.

Like everything you've ever emailed somebody actually is somewhere in a database. That is the facts. That's the world that we live in now. This isn't science fiction anymore. That off color photo you sent me shhh dude I told you that wasn't real

what do you does that freak you out what do you think this is going to lead to this dissolving of privacy I don't know part of me says I'm not really that important that I'm too worried about anybody looking at what I've got. You know, the government like sifting through my crap. There's nothing of... personally, but I also see it as something that's very different than I think what people are realizing. I think everybody's worried about their personal privacy and people are worried about

not just their personal privacy, but the government being able to access their personal privacy and to be able to look into their photographs and read their emails and i i get all that but i think that ultimately what we're dealing with is a dissolving of boundaries between people and information and that it's going to be some there there's going to be some breakthrough one day whether it's some some ability to read minds or some new way of connecting people, some new way of separating boundaries. That's going to make this seem like a joke that this is just basically one more step in this never ending trend of a dissolving of boundaries.

And I don't know. I don't, I don't, you know, again, I don't know. My, the other side of me is like,

don't, don't be looking at my emails. You know, that's just my personal stuff. There's nothing of interest there for you. I think I've done, you know, I've done my part for society. Why are you looking at my bung? Yeah. I think, you know, the people that are doing it, too, that's one of the weirdest things.

Like this Edward Snowden thing, when it came they were they were trying to discredit him and they're like this high school dropout edward snowden and you're like wait a minute man did you guys hire him like you're making fun of him now but right this is your fucking employee man and he's telling everybody that he had access to everybody's email not just encrypted but could actually fucking read them it wasn't just metadata he could actually go and read your emails right and he was a high school dropout right like who else is working for you guys right like who gets these jobs how do they get these jobs like the the questions the questions are just leading to this weird ultimate reality, which is that the trend seems to be across the line,

this dissolving of boundaries between people and ideas and people and information. And then eventually everyone's going to have access to everything. It seems that that is the trend. I think that that's wrong. I get caught up in the idea of like, well this is part of some you know this might be just our tendency to do things you know this is what we do to control people you know just through the ages power you know power wants more power but at some point

you have to wonder like oh so is that is that choice and the dominant you know whoever's in charge if that's a tendency of whatever we are, whatever makes us up. Is that an extension of what, again, going back to the marble, is that what the marble wants? Right. In some way, is that consciousness just trying to sort some things out and take us to the next step? You know what I mean? I don't, you know,

I don't, I have no answers to that. I'm just saying, I started asking, I started asking those questions of like, okay, so what's the, how, how would I,

you know, if I was David Koresh, how would I rationalize that perspective? So think, but think like a crazy person who, you know, comes up with some awesome rationalizations to justify the actions. And then try to go the other way.

Try to be more like the paranoid, opposite, defensive, reasonably defensive person who wants to know what the fuck do you need to see in my emails? I don't understand why that's important to you. I try to look at it as someone who's analyzing the human beings as a complete alien outsider, looking at us collectively as a group, which is what we move as a group. We act as a group. And I would say, well, look,

here's this thing that works collectively to make technology but thinks it's an individual. They all think that they're individuals but essentially all they're doing with their manic desire to acquire goods and to acquire material possessions what they're really doing is just pushing innovation because they need the biggest baddest newest craziest they constantly need the latest and greatest they're pushing for these innovations and these innovations are constantly within you know three four five months the exponential increase of

these things is making every new step far more powerful than any step before it and it's you know happening faster and faster and faster it's happening exponentially and I don't even think the creatures even realize they're doing it. The periods, as McKenna had put it, the periods between novelty and normality, it's like a hum now. It's not even a peak and valley anymore. Yeah, McKenna described it as a funnel. That if you spun a quarter around the top of the funnel, it would take a long time to go all the way around the circle but as it gets lower and lower it's getting faster and faster and faster and faster until it reaches

what he thought would be a point of ultimate novelty but he thought it was going to be december 21st 2012 but i think you know he had a he's a dude you know he's a guy right you know at the end of the day as brilliant as he was fantastic as his mind was, he's still just a person with an idea. And, you know, we grab ideas sometimes and ride those bitches right into the rocks. But, you know, if you look at those beautiful chaos equations that kind of make those cool kind of paisley-looking things, but you look really close and you see, like, oh, fractals mandelbrot set yeah so you know if you look at that um when we get down to the bottom of that funnel and you're looking close enough there's there's a deeper funnel yeah it's just as much detail as the funnel above it so and he might ultimately have been right

in some sort of a way that december 21, it might not have even been that exact day, but that era, the era between 2012, 2013, which is the era we're living in and experiencing right now, it might ultimately be this new opening for this new future. And this, what we're talking about, that TV show or the revelations about the NSA, that could be just the first steps in opening up this new door of perception, this new door of reality. We're living in strange times, man. Yeah, totally.

It makes a person when I'm trying to write songs or trying to make this wine or doing whatever, doing comedy bits or whatever, it almost makes it feel weird. You almost feel kind of in an odd, like, self-conscious way of, like, what am I doing?

Like, you go to a show and you see, like, the dude up there dancing around in front of the people that are, like, watching him dance around, and, oh, look at you dancing around. It just feels so fucking weird. Like, it's such a weird relationship of like like such a show-and-tell kindergarten thing and when i like when you say a word enough times it sounds weird yeah that when i look at that and i think about it like that like like repeating the word to the point where it doesn't make any sense anymore that thing just seems so strange standing so and i'm gonna imagine like most people in

at some point in their career whatever it is they're doing they all sudden kind of go what the fuck am i doing yeah what is this thing i'm doing yeah if you're like paying too close attention to ballet if you're locking into a ballet you can enjoy it if you're in the moment and you're just appreciating the movements but if you look at it too closely then you start to step back and pull back and look at it in the perspective of this planet spinning a thousand miles an hour in a circle around this gigantic nuclear explosion you're like look at this asshole in tights just throwing his body through the air. This is so preposterous. Like, why does anybody give a fuck

whether or not you can sing the words to your play? Right. I went to, my wife was taking Spanish or Italian, rather, and one of the things that she did in her class was they took everyone to an opera So we went to an opera and so we're sitting there with the rest of the people in her Italian class watching this opera

I'm like this has got to be one of the dumbest fucking ways to entertain people. I've ever seen in my life You're singing in this language that nobody understands. It's everything is like everyone falls in love immediately So I can't buy it right there's no reason why these people are in love with each other so quickly like this right what are you ready to die like this is preposterous like this is made in an era when people didn't have books like they didn't they bought into this because they were dumb as shit but yet here we are you know 21st century and it is it seems absurd as and as it would if anybody coming here from some different you know galaxy walking in and seeing you know uh

a stand-up comic or or or uh you know or a band playing on a stage or a person like getting up so early in the morning to make bread, that's food. I guess that makes more sense. How about to make wine? Yeah. I mean, you always kind of take it out of perspective. Like somebody comes to this culture, and then there's this thing where you stick rocks in your ear. And that's like this thing you do, and there's better rocks than other rocks that you stick in your ear.

And then people start stumbling around and you know falling you know bumping into a wall like okay so you you pick up a rock and you put it in your ear and there's different kinds of rocks that feel different and give you different effects and there's there's you know you can there's certain rocks that are really expensive and some that you can just pick up and stick in your ear but you just basically bump into a wall afterwards and that's cool right yeah okay there you have it good good luck yeah it just seems so absurd when you when you when you kind of take take the take the words and replace them with you know other other objects or things uh you know wine food i mean you know food is food but singing a song

Yeah and there's some things that to the people that participate in them are life itself. It's almost you know one of the things that I do I've done since I was a young man is play pool. I play I play in tournaments

and I play like at a just below professional level. And to people that play pool, no. That's a weird word that only gets used outside of pool. Shark, actually, in pool is a negative term, meaning someone who distracts you while you're shooting. They try to shark you. Okay.

Like if you were shooting, I was like, come on, man, you ain't gonna make this shot. If I was fucking with you while you were shooting, that's called sharking someone. It's actually poor form and it never happens in tournaments with the highest level guys. They never do that. But my point was that

to the people in that world, pools everything. To watch the great matches going from tournament to tournament. You know, nowadays they're watching them streaming on the internet, whether it's through pay-per-view venues or whether it's through, you know, some people set up cameras at various tournaments. But to a person who has nothing, no connection to that world,

it's idiotic. You're watching these fools there's a the table never changes the six holes remain in the exact same spots and it's just about which way the balls roll around like who gives a fuck nothing changes outside that table i mean this is the microcosm of microcosms man i mean it's a fucking table right it doesn't even move it's level it doesn't even move it's just a matter of balls colliding and that that interests you right but to the people that are involved in it's everything or a person who you know goes through that kind of process of self-discovery you you did something and that went in the hole you wanted it to go in and you've had

that positive reinforcement and that encouragement from that you know from that behavior uh then you follow it more because like you got some somehow some kind of accolades either from yourself or from someone around you so you start pursuing that thing and it has more about your ego developing in terms of like the praise that you got for doing that thing yeah so you know so you end up you can see how things get to that level. You know, watching, you know, watching your, you know, English footy. I was never a footy fan until I had somebody kind of walking me through

what was happening. And then I recognized something and I was, you know, patted on the back for recognizing this thing that I still don't have any fucking idea what I was talking about. But, you know, I'm watching it more because I want to see where this goes and you're like six total goals tops and that's like that's what we're watching here if you're lucky yeah but you

know at the same time I you know not other now that I've got sucked into the rabbit hole I completely enjoy what that is and there there's entire like, you know, there's probably a bunch of English shoes right now outside of the studio ready to kick my ass for even mentioning it. That might not be something that's interesting. You know, like there's like a fury. Well, at least you didn't call it soccer.

I did not do that. Yeah. I would not go that. They'll fucking scream at you. It was football before football. They have a point. They do football. They have a point. They do have a point. But yeah, it's that same thing.

It's that seeking higher truth in whatever discipline it is, whether it's the discipline of football or winemaking or music making or jokes or jujitsu. Those microcosms, those worlds that exist sort of wholly on their own and are very difficult to appreciate by people standing outside of them. It's a very fascinating aspect of human beings. So I guess going back to what you were asking about the Pusser for DVD, how I can, you know, the flexibility of everything that we do, I guess that's kind of what that is.

Me and the guys that I work with realizing how absurd some of the things are that we do anyway with our other projects or with this project. But we do it anyway because we're just really enjoying. We're in the rabbit hole. We enjoy seeing how far we can take a particular absurd obsession with something. And that's absolutely what I loved and appreciated about it. Besides the fact that it was funny, and besides the fact that the music was good,

I loved and appreciated the fact that I could tell that this structure was wholly your own. This was your own. You just decided to do it this way. And I don't know if you saw some of the shows. We normally have a table and chairs that we set up at the front of the stage. Depending on the show, there will be different kinds of tables and chairs. We always have, like, some wine and some stuff on stage because we have friends that have either opened for us or are coming down to see us or are actually playing in this particular band.

That while they're not doing anything, they sit down and have a glass of wine on stage and, you know, at the front of the stage with us. And we've, you know, we've done a lot of shows like that where we've had, like, you know, two drummers and two bass players and a couple extra guitar players. And then, like, that rhythm section just sits down for five songs and just having wine and cheese at the front of the stage, just kicking it.

And then they get back up and do it because it just felt, it just feels more casual. Even Karina Rano will sing a couple songs and I'll sit down and just kind of you know watch the show from the stage that's is that is that something you saw someone else do or just decided I don't know that I don't know that I've seen anybody do it I'm sure I'm just that has to have been done at some right but I just feel like there's a, and I've actually tried to, I've been trying to put this other show together with No Luck, where we have several bands kind of come up and do a very similar thing,

but they play, you know, four songs, and then they sit down, and maybe there's some kind of segue where one of those guys is playing with that other band, and then, like, a band does, you know, four songs or five songs, and they sit down, and the other guys come back up. So you just keep rotating.

Rather than doing your whole set and like, here's who I am and this is what I do. Just kind of do it almost like a very well-rehearsed rehearsal. Yeah, a very well-rehearsed rehearsal. Not the final performance, but a week before it. A little glimpse into a little bit of the chaos of those guys getting up there to do their next three songs, and it's not them in their rhythm and in their element

of start to finish, this is our set. This is more like, we're going to get up and do these three songs, and then we kind of have to... And it's not like some guys have to get a full-on boner to go do their set and you know they do the whole thing and you know we fucking nailed it man or whatever that is uh but just the idea of like getting up and performing those songs in a couple ways and put putting them and putting us in an uncomfortable unfamiliar environment that kind of helps us just look at it again and re-enjoy what we remember doing when we started doing it in a way. So. Fuck yeah, dude. I'm working on that.

Yeah. I love it. That's exactly it, man. You know, if you could find that, that's a, that's an honest energy, you know, that's a, and, and an honest form of expression too, because, you know, you're showing the whole thing, you're showing the, you know, you're showing the whole thing. You're showing the underbelly. You're pulling the curtain back. And then you're still. But if done right, it's not necessarily the underbelly. It's a show in and of itself that has depth and movement and passion and, you know, uncertainty and fear and all the real stuff that comes along with a movie.

Yeah. Or is within the songs you're hearing. All that stuff is built into each one of those stories. Usually there's some form of conflict within that song. That's why they wrote it. Yeah. And in seeing that preparation, it makes you appreciate the final product even more so.

Yeah. That's badass, man. When are you touring right now? Like what's uh just got done with harvest i'm doing a lot of writing um training jiu-jitsu well i was to like hurt my hand so you say you sprained it you think uh i had my my coach in st louis uh fell on it that wasn't me i was i was going the wrong way it's totally my fault i was going the wrong way pushing the wrong way and have my hand out the wrong way and he went the other way and like his whole body like landed on my hand when I could

hear like popcorn did you get an MRI or anything I just this happened four hours ago doesn't look that bad yeah I think you'd be okay yeah I see some swelling yeah so I had it I had the poor guy on the plane I'm like using a puke bag to go, can I get some ice? I'm like icing my arm on the plane coming here. Do you think the bone's cracked? I don't know. I have no idea. I had to come do this fucking podcast instead of go to the doctor.

Dude, I hear you, man. I know what it's like. I got to get up in four hours and go to the airport. Well, I mean, the good news is I'm getting, uh, Kim say is doing a tattoo of some tattoo work on me. So I'm actually kind of out of the training game for a minimum of like a week or so anyway, cause I gotta let the, I gotta let the thing heal. What are you getting done? I'm getting more of my snakes, my Arizona rattler. Oh, wow. Is this a guy who's doing this in California? No, Kim. Kim Se.

Kim Se. You don't know Kim? No. Kim's work? No. How dare you? I how dare you a lot. She.

She? Yeah. Where is she? I'm going to forget the name of her. How do you spell her last name? S-A-I-G-H. S-A-I-G-H? Mm-hmm. K-I-M.

And Sean Barber. Oh, wow. She's wild work, man. Fantastic stuff. Yeah. And so what town is she in again? She's in L.A. Memoir tattoo?

Memoir. That's the word I was looking for. I was going to say heirloom, but that's my friends that make food. Wow. Wow. Memoir tattoo. And where's that at? It's in kind of the Hollywood area. I think on Beverly.

Wow. She's got some fucking amazing work. Yeah, she's got some skills to pay the bills. And Sean's work is awesome, too. Now, that's another art form that over the last, say, two, three decades has really come into its own in a very strange way that didn't really exist before. Right. And again, when you step back from it, you go, what are you doing? You're drawing on yourself.

What the fuck's your problem? Go fucking get, just get a pad of paper and, you know, draw a little bit on it. And then when you don't like it, you draw another one. But no, like, but, you know, but then I get caught up in the and the just the art of tattooing like you said it's just it's come so far and just people are so passionate about it and do such good work now it's no longer you know tasmanian devils and shit it's it's for real yeah i've had both of my sleeves done by the same guy aaron della vadova from guru tattoo in san diego and uh guru tattoo is one of those uh cool shops where it's they're all artists you know they're

all creating these weird pieces of art when they're not painting they're doing you know when they're not uh doing tattoos they're painting when they're not painting they're doing some guys sculpt some guys you know, they're fucking around constantly. This is just one more medium that they express themselves in. Right. But the medium of tattooing, I mean, there was the tattoos of, you know, the 1950s and the 1960s, and they have no relation to what is being done today. Well, in the U.S. Yes.

You always had the Japanese tattooing. It's just like insane, beautiful stuff. Insane, beautiful, and ridiculously fucking painful because they're doing that tapping way. That's part of this one I got done with that. Oh, did you? In Osaka. No kidding.

So they did it. How long does that take? Didn't take much longer than the gun. I mean, the guy was fantastic. That was the chopstick tattoo in Osaka. So they use one stick, they hold it there, and the

other stick taps over the top of it? Wow. That's pretty cool. How precise can they get with that thing? Pretty precise. Get in there, buddy. That's pretty bad. I love the? Get in there, buddy. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I love the tie style ones that they're doing, too.

I'm going to have them do a drag, and I'm actually going to talk to Memoir. What's the number, 353? What is that? That's part of my wine story. Oh. Can you tell us the story? No?

It's a secret? Yeah. Really? You have secrets? It's a secret? Yeah. Really? You have secrets? It's a little... The NSA is going to fucking tap in your email, son. Release that secret. Well, then the secret's out.

And so you had that guy do that with that tapping style? Yeah, with the bamboo. I think Tara Patrick had her whole arm done that way. She's like this huge Japanese sleeve. I'm pretty sure she had it done the traditional way. Like the full, I don't know what the word is. They do it. It's funny, when you go to Japan,

you can't show your tattoos. I was at a gym. I was in the gym. Yeah, they made me cover up. They told me I have to go back to my room and put a long sleeve shirt on. And I couldn't train. Because you're a fucking derelict yeah i tell i try to let them know i'm not yeah that's her uh her tattoo there i'm pretty sure that's done the traditional way or at least part of it is yeah in the japanese culture that's not a good thing that's uh

no it's bad that's the a good thing. That's bad. That's the Yakuza. It's really interesting because they're the ones who created such beautiful, these beautiful full-piece body designs, those body suits that are actually just one long, flowing piece of art. That's the origin of that, but not respected in the country where it came from. It's funny.

Yeah. It's funny. Yeah. It's kind of fucked. I got jumped. Please. So sorry. Please. What did they do? Made me put the robe on.

I had to put like sweatpants on and a top to be in the gym. Where were you in Japan? Which part? That was in, I think that was in Tokyo. Yeah. That's where I was too. They were not having it. It's a, if you have anything on your neck, you have to wear a turtleneck.

If you have tattoos on your neck, it's much more discriminatory than it is in America. Politely discriminatory. Yeah, they're very polite. Very polite about it. They're so polite in such a strange way. It's a really interesting culture and we went there pretty shortly after Fukushima where there was this weird feeling of distrust for uh the the government's assessment of the damage and the dangers and uh we were we had this long conversation with this

taxi driver because he had to drive us from the venue all the way down to Tokyo and it's about an hour's drive. And so he spoke pretty good English, and he was saying that for the first time. People are openly starting to question whether or not the government's being honest with them about whether or not they can eat vegetables, whether or not their ground is radioactive and their fish are edible.

Right. And I would have to agree with that. That's starting to happen. Yeah. That's a scary fucking thing, isn't it? Mm-hmm. They might have ruined their country. Oh.

They might have to bail. Because it could get worse. I mean, there was another earthquake just last week that was a 7.3 off the coast of Japan. Really? Yeah. Yeah, it was another one. Didn't cause a tsunami but it could

have i mean all it takes is the plates go this way instead of that way and then the water's coming yeah and if it does they're fucked yeah i said you know there's a there was a beer that a friend of mine had at a at his local sushi place and i went in was like, hey, can I get some of that beer? He goes, no. I said, what happened? I said, oh, the earthquake. So it stopped production. He goes, no, it's gone.

The family's gone. The beer is gone. The building's gone. They're gone. I was like, fuck. Yeah, gone, gone. Like, never coming back. Yeah, you see some of the damage.

And by the way, that ain't shit compared to some of the fucking tsunami's that they know have hit different parts of the world. That's why I always laugh whenever I drive by Malibu. I was in Malibu today, and I was driving by, and I was looking at these houses they have perched over the ocean, and I was like... Sleds. Boy, there's no guarantee that's going to be there tomorrow. No, those are just sleds with a... They're basically playing a long, extended game of musical chairs, and they know for sure one day the music's going to stop,

and their houses are going to, for sure, go flying out into the ocean. In Michigan, we had all that snow you'd always have. You could do bobsledding and stuff. You kind of just sled down the hill. And when I see those houses, that's all I can think of is sledding in the winter in Michigan. Well, they'll get erased one day. I guess if you're way up on one of those bluffs, you've probably got a pretty good shot at sticking around. Of not falling completely in the ocean.

But those things have massive landslides, too. There was a couple of years ago, there was a news report where these people were waking up in the middle of the night, these horrible cracking noises, and they realized that their houses were sliding off the side of this hill down into this valley. Yeah, it just gives out. You decided to put a foundation in the ground that decided to not be there anymore. Right. And it all just in giant, huge, 30, 40 acre chunks just slides down and takes these $5 million houses with it.

You hear it. They're not worth $5 million anymore. Not anymore. If I may. I think you're correct. And I think even if you wanted to reclaim that land, boy, it's tough to pinpoint where your house used to be. Yeah, good luck with that survey. Yeah, those dudes with the sticks looking through that hole, yeah, they're going to have to do a lot of measuring.

That was me in the military. Did you do that? That's what I did. What did you do in the military? We put in grid coordinates for the tank batteries to pull in. If you're going to shove a big missile in a tube and launch it somewhere, you have to know where you are to know where it's going, basically. So that's what we would do is we would put the survey points. What branch of the military are you in?

Army. How long are we in for? Three years. Well, six years total. What year was this? 82 to 85. Wow. And then reserves from 85 to 88.

Look at you. That's you. Ba-boom. You handsome bastard. I'm not a wig. That's just real, yo. Did you get anything out of being in the military? Yeah.

Discipline. Yeah, just, you know, just, again, just being responsible. Responsibility. The ability to respond. Yeah, people that have gone through that, it's very interesting to see. I had a friend who was real lazy and kind of shiftless and never got anything done and then went away went to boot camp came back and this motherfucker always folded his napkin after that and sat up straight and got shit done and i was like wow they turned this dude around like they really did i wouldn't

recommend it today because joining today you have a high likelihood of either being forced to assassinate someone for the government or finding yourself in a position where you really wouldn't want to be. Right. People are shooting at you that don't like Americans. Unless it's your calling, I wouldn't really recommend it. But, God damn, for some people, it really is a game changer. I agree. Yeah, and not everyone can make it through it it's but the a lot of guys that kind of washed out you

know during that whole basic training what made you join college fund for art school really yeah were you pretty convinced that we weren't gonna go to war during those times completely I. I was like, war? You know, I just didn't believe it. And then I got appointed to go. I got through a long process, but basically got handed an opportunity to go to West Point by going to the preparatory school for a year. to go to West Point by going to the preparatory school for a year. And got to the end, like when I finally got my appointment to go to West Point,

they said basically you have to forfeit your Army college fund to go to art school. And I didn't really go in to be a career military person. I kind of went in to get college funds so I can go pursue the arts. But, you know, but you're being, again, I was being, my behavior was being reinforced as far as the way I was excelling as in the military. So it was very tempting to go, I could be an officer. Let's do that. And then you get, you know, I got to that moment where I had to like, I had like three hours to check the yes box and accept my appointment or check the no box and, you know, go back into the regular army and then go back and go to art school. Wow.

And I chose art school. And if I had not done that, I would have, provided I made it through West Point, which is not a guarantee, if I had made it through West Point, I would have been in the first Gulf War as a lieutenant. Wow. That's fucking crazy. Gulf War I, I think they call it. I had a friend who's a cop, and he was in the armed reserve, the army reserve, for 20 years. And had less than a month to go until he was out for 20 years. And they shipped him to Iraq for a year and a half

come again yeah he was in the reserves and the reserves during the Iraq war um after September 11th they just started sending people over there you were under contract that's it it didn't matter if you had a month to go during that month you were assigned a year and a half tour of Iraq. And he went not just once. He came back and they sent him again. They sent him twice. He did three years in Iraq when he had less than a month to go.

Damn. And there was nothing he could do about it. His whole life was thrown into chaos. His relationship, his job, everything gone. Yep. Sorry. You live in Iraq now. His relationship, his job, everything gone. Sorry, you live in Iraq now. You're over there. You're a soldier.

I mean, it's a fascinating thing to watch. Well, at least he made it out alive. He got lucky, yeah. He came back different, though, I'll tell you that. He came back, you could tell he had seen some shit. There's no avoiding that. I mean, he saw combat duty and wasn't planning on it. Thought he was getting out.

Thought he was going home. Thought reserve meant reserve. You know, thought 30 days meant 30 days. Nope. No, it means two one-and-a-half-year tours, or at least all in total somewhere around three years like the beach well we don't have water but we got sand yeah i don't know i i guess there's good to be gotten from almost everything but uh but for you at least it was a positive experience i dodged you know quite metaphorically and literally dodged a bullet. Yeah. Wow.

That must be something you think about often. But, you know, I could see, you know, I could see how I could have excelled at that and done well for, you know, done my part in that setting. I have an aptitude for it. A lot of my friends are law enforcement and military so I get along with them well. I also have all my you know crazy liberal friends that I get along with well so I think it just would have been if it would have it was a path that I would have chosen I would

have just done whatever I could do with it. The law enforcement friends I bet understand your friendship with the crazy hippies and liberals more than the crazy liberals understand your relationships with the law enforcement people. Absolutely. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Yeah.

God bless them. God bless them all. The open-minded liberals. Yeah. Yes. There's not that many of those, are there? When it boils down to it, there's a lot of aggressive progressives. Yeah, and I noticed that.

And, you know, coming from that background of being, you know, supposedly like the liberal Democrat, it's pretty amazing. Well, they have this idea and they think that it's right and they think that they should, uh, violently try to, uh, support that idea. You know, whether or not other people have that idea or not, they, they think that their idea is correct and their idea is on the right side of

history. And so it's, it's something to be, something to be violently pursued. A boom. Yeah. But boom, I don't know.

I don't know who's right. I don't think any of them are. The truth is in the middle somewhere, right? Yeah. Listen, man, I got to go to the airport in, I think, five hours. All right. So let's wrap this bitch up. I just came from the airport.

Thank you for doing this, man. I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. I mean, you literally pulled right up. The car's out front. And if people want to watch the DVD, how can people watch this? I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. I mean, you literally pulled right up. The car's out front. If people want to watch the DVD, how can people watch this? It's coming out on the, I think, the 26th of November. The What Is Pulsifer DVD show, live in Phoenix, comes out on the 26th,

as well as the Perfect Circle box set. And the songs from this, where can they get those? On that? Yeah, they're on this DVD. It'll be released on iTunes. I think, yeah, we're doing this separate. You can get the live album off of iTunes, just the songs. Beautiful.

Beautiful. Go get it, folks. And follow on Twitter. Pussifer on Twitter. And there it is, right there. DVD and soundtrack available. What did it say? November what? 26.

As well as the Perfect Circle one as well. Live at Red Rocks. I know this is a good Sunday. We got the documentary guys like... You can't talk to the camera. Oh yeah, I'm not supposed to talk to the camera. You can't talk to the camera.

No, no, I know. I know, I keep forgetting that. Did you live in character when you did this? No, no. That was like... I mean, literally that was... With Laura and me in that costume, we were like...

That came out for the weekend. I'm like, what are we going to do? And Mike, her husband, just had a new camera he wanted to try out. I think it was the Canon 5D or whatever. He was just trying to like, let's just get some footage,

see what we get. And we just did all that and we went, did we just do that? No script, just kind of went, well, let's do this. Let's do this. And then went to want like actually spent like two hours in walmart grabbing stuff just for that day to see what we could come up with to

come up with costumes that that halloween shirt and everything was just like on a quick trip to walmart to see what we can come up with that was beautiful you're a beautiful man, Maynard. God bless you and men like you. Thank you. Onward. All right, folks, that's it. This ends. We will put all the commercials on it. Stick this bitch up on iTunes. And we'll see you on Friday with Dan Carlin from Hardcore History.

Big kiss. Mwah.