The Joe Rogan Experience - #416 - Ana Kasparian

Episode Date: November 12, 2013

Ana Kasparian is a producer and co-host of "The Young Turks" and also teaches journalism at Cal State Northridge.

the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day thank you for joining us thank you for having me super excited casperian yes the right way to pronounce it from the young turks um which is you guys are like the new media right it's like yes old media and there's new media yeah establishment media new media i'm actually working on a book about it. I mean, I'm not 100% sure that it's going to be published, so I don't want to give too many details. It's something I'm working on now. But I got to experience that transition from establishment media to new media. And there are really important differences and just this whole media revolution that's happening that's really exciting for anyone who's interested in journalism. And

I mean, you're part of it with this podcast. Allegedly. You are. You are. Allegedly. And it's a really great way for people who want to be heard without being censored. I can basically say anything I want on my show without worrying about anyone telling me, hey, you can't say this, you can't say that. We have corporate sponsors.

We've got to make sure the advertisers continue giving us money. What's fascinating is all you have to do is be interesting, entertaining, informative, and that's it. It doesn't have to have CNN on it or Fox on it or any of these other names that we've attributed to meaning what the news is, where the news comes from. Definitely. I mean, when I first started working at TYT, it was this unknown show. It had been around for a few years, but it was a really big risk for me to work there

because I was working at CBS Radio at the time. And CBS Radio had a very clear path for me. You start off as an assistant producer, you will work your way up, and if you're good enough and persistent enough, you'll be an anchor and you'll be fine. You'll be set for life. With TYT, it was just this huge risk because it was unknown. I didn't know if it would survive. At the time, it was on this radio station called Air America.

I don't know if you heard of it. Yeah, I remember that. For folks, TYT if you heard of it. Yeah, I remember that. For folks, TYT stands for the Young Turks. Yeah, the Young Turks. In case you're on a plane with no Google and you're like, what the fuck is she talking about? So I just remember being really unhappy at CBS, feeling like even if I get to the top of the ladder within this company,

I'm not going to feel fulfilled doing what they're doing. And the first day I worked at The Young Turks, I heard Cenk Uygur, the main host of the show, go on this rant against the Bush administration and some of the ridiculous, you know, civil liberty violations, civil liberties violations that they were accused of, guilty of, not even accused of. And I was like, wow, you do not see this in the media. You don't see this type of honesty. You don't see people go off like that. They're usually very senatorial whenever they're doing any type of commentary. And I was tired of it. I wanted some real news coverage. So that's why I made the decision that I made. And I left. And thank God I made that decision because TYT actually succeeded in big ways.

In what year do you think it was where, you know, it started to shift? Because it seems like to me it's maybe three, five, whatever years it is. But within the last few years, there's this shift where my friends don't ever talk to me about what they saw on CNN. They don't talk to me what they saw on Fox News. It's always, I read this online. I watched this online. I saw the Young Turks. I watched this show. I watched this guy's podcast. And this guy said, I mean, everybody that I talk to is talking about stuff that they're getting when they're talking about real issues. They're talking about stuff they're getting online. Yeah, well, a lot of things have changed. People don't rush home to watch a newscast anymore. And people also know that there are corporate interests

involved in traditional media. You know, you see advertisements for things that you can't even buy on traditional media. Like I see advertisements for this company called Siemens. And I'm like, what are they trying to sell me? And you realize that they're not trying to sell the consumer anything. It's a form of control over the network. BP has a bunch of advertisements on mainstream media. And if they are the people that are paying your bills, you are less likely to be critical of their business practices. So with traditional media, you have that issue.

And I think people are now more and more aware of it. And with online media, it's on demand. Okay. It's raw. We cuss, we say whatever the hell we want without worrying about censorship and people like that. It's there's something really refreshing about it. You know, they didn't have it before and they didn't think they could. And then they thought if they did, it probably would come in an uneducated form. Exactly. Probably be some idiots are saying stupid things that don't even ring true. But instead, there's intelligent people and they're like,

fuck this. And you're like, whoa, hold on. Yeah. Like, these people are actually articulate. They look like they went to school.

Like, this is, you know, this is a new thing. I actually think that it's a perfect example of the free market deciding because I don't think that the American people

are stupid. I think that they can decide and determine whether or not someone is intelligent enough or credible enough to cover a particular story. So a perfect example of that is I'm not a science reporter. So whenever I attempt to cover science news, the audience tears me apart for it, as they should, because that's not my expertise. My expertise is political commentary, social commentary, and that's usually the stuff that does really well on The Young Turks when I cover it. And so the audience decides, and they will let you know. With mainstream media, it's really difficult for you to voice your opinion if you don't like the coverage, right? You might write an email, but you don't know if anyone's ever going to see it.

With our show, we're on YouTube. We get constant, constant feedback, And a lot of times it's not constructive, but sometimes it is constructive. I like how you said it like that. That might be the lowest form of human on the planet is the YouTube commenter. There are some pretty hideous people on there. If you looked at it like per numbers, per capita, it's got to be 40% assets. Okay. So let me give you an example of something that enraged me the other day. I literally lost it in our studio and everyone's like, you need to calm down. We covered this story about this guy in Massachusetts who was going

around taking upskirt pictures with his cell phone. Okay. So cops finally caught him back in 2010 and now he's going to stand trial for it and he's actually suing the government because he feels that his first amendment rights have been violated and his female lawyer is arguing that since these women are in a public place they have no reasonable expectation of privacy therefore he should be allowed to take upskirt pictures of them how absurd is that argument anyway we covered on the show we share our you know opinion on it and i would say like about one-third of the audience was like yeah they're right yeah and absurd is that argument anyway we covered on the show we share our you know opinion on it and i would say like about one third of the audience was like

yeah they're right yeah and as a dumb bitch which is a no anything first amendment rights and it's like all of us opposed to do with these types of situations it's really frustrating that's the those women who are boys gangster who doesn't that's a gangster right there that's like some traitor shit right there. Yeah. And I would, I'd be very curious to see if she would be okay with this dude with her own client

taking upskirt pictures with her or of her. Um, and another argument she made was what, I mean, all these women were wearing underwear. We didn't see their badge. So it's okay. Wow. That's very gangster of her. That's, is that just what happens when you get into the business world? You get into the corporate world and you become a lawyer and it's about winning and losing. Definitely. You take on the client and just argue it, even though you sold your own vagina down the river. I know. She sold her own vagina.

I don't know what she looks like, but maybe she has nothing to worry about. Maybe no one wants to get an upskirt picture of her and that's why she has no problem making these arguments in court. Or maybe she's just dying for someone to get a picture of hers. She's just a freak. That could be it too. Definitely. Yeah. It's a, that's a fucking big leap that those women lawyers made. They just decided fucking straight to hell. I was really surprised by that. But you know, look, when you have, have, there's like financial gain involved, then okay, I guess I can kind of understand where you're coming from. You're a lawyer and you're trying to make some money, I guess. And it's really difficult for lawyers

right now to even get cases, to get work. So maybe that plays a role in it. But what really bothered me about it is we have a progressive audience like our audience is pretty liberal so whenever i see that kind of response to a story like that i'm always shocked i'm like wait you guys are okay with this it's just men it's just men who are most men who are raised by shitheads that's a lot of it it's a big part of it the real problem is they don't even realize they're being shitheads because their dad was a shithead their brother's a shithead they grow up in a community of shitheads they don't even realize it it's just it's just ape behavior and there's also a possibility that they're just straight out trolling like they don't even believe what they're saying but they're doing it to get a response like this i just they just won they just won and i'm totally aware of that

but i just yeah and i remember i remember being in the studio like reading the comments and i was They just won. They just won. And I'm totally aware of that. But I just. Yeah, that's hilarious. And I remember being in the studio, like, reading the comments. And I was like, what the fuck? Why? What am I doing with my life? Does it matter? You know, and I started feeling really bad about it. But then I was like, you just can't let that stuff get to you.

You got to take it with a grain of salt. Yeah, you can get caught up in an online troll war. You guys actually made fun of me. The Young Turks did because I got in an online MySpace thing. I don't even remember this. It was a long time ago. But he was right. I would have made fun of me if I was me.

Really? I shouldn't have had this interaction with this kid. This kid kept harassing me over and over again. It was during the MySpace days and no one knew how to handle that. It was like the new thing that someone could just contact people. Yep. And some people would just contact people and go, why have you not killed yourself? You know, and you would get an email from someone saying, you know, you're horrible.

You should, you know, you should eat glass. You know, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd get, like, a lot of those in a day. Like, what the fuck? Like, this is weird. This is a new thing. Interesting.

I get dick pics regularly. Really? Regularly. Do you geotag them? You should re-upload them online. Let everybody know where that sweet dick is hiding. I've considered that. But, you know, a lot of times they'll send me the pictures on Facebook.

Because I have a fan page on Facebook. And every once in a while I'll check the messages. And they're so stupid. Because all of their private information is on there, like where they work, who their girlfriend or their wife is. And part of me wants to, like, forward it over to their girlfriend or wife, but I'm too nice. Like, I don't want to, like, ruin their lives over their, like, perverted behavior. Well, that's very kind of you to not do that. Didn't a guy recently lose his job because they found out he was a Reddit troll?

He would do evil, evil shit on Reddit. And some people said, all right, who is this guy? And then they found who this guy was. It was a character that he was playing to blow off steam, allegedly. He would just be really evil and nasty online. A small part of me felt kind of bad for him because he had a family to take care of. And, you know, it's going to like destroy his life. And I get it. Online anonymity allows people to blow off steam in that way. And a lot of people right now, because of the economic crisis, because of all the crap that's going on in the government, all the death and

destruction that's around us constantly, a lot of people need some sort of outlet. And so they will use online anonymity to do that, to say hideous things to other people because that makes them feel good about themselves. And I think that if you're a mature adult, you can just ignore them and step away. I'm not interested in censoring them. I know that YouTube is trying to, like, you know, work with their comments so those negative comments get pushed back to the bottom or whatever and no one can read them i just feel like you know the internet should be an open forum for the most hateful people if they want to be hateful and we as adults have to have thicker skin and just walk away and not let it get get to us and it's hard to do it still gets to me i mean that's what i opened the show with you know i like the YouTube handles it. If too many people say this comment's retarded, then they eliminate it. But you can always see it. If you wanted to show the comment, you could still show the comment.

And they're slowly getting rid of anonymity where they're attaching the comments to a Google Plus account. So it'll be easier to identify who that person is. I'm not necessarily against that. I just feel like, you know, I don't want to move closer toward censorship online. I love that it's an open forum, even though there are negative aspects to it that impact my life. Yeah. No, I agree with you. I think it's an important, like, method of criticism that was never available before. We have a very honest view of what you do

and when people like what you do, when they don't. Even if it's really hypercritical, overcritical, if they have a point, that point probably would have never gotten to you during any other era. If you want to really analyze what you're doing and try to figure out what's the best way to hone this, they'll give you a lot of input. They definitely will. I will say that my political views have changed significantly since I started working at TYT. And it's not necessarily because of my colleagues. It has a

lot to do with audience feedback. For instance, what I thought about prostitution when I first started was very different from what I think now. I was definitely against legalizing prostitution. I was in favor of tough on crime legislation when it came to dealing with that. And then I realized like, this is stupid. It's not keeping anyone safe. People are getting hurt as a result of, you know, pushing this ban against prostitution. So I've changed my views on that. I think that we should legalize it and regulate it because that'll create a safe environment and that's just one example of many. Willie D from the Ghetto Boys said it best.

He said, you gotta let a hoe be a hoe. I mean, if you have two consenting adults wanting to do that, exchange money for sex, why the hell not? It's amazing that we have like this huge porn industry in the country and as long as they do it in front of a camera, it's totally fine.

But if they do it behind the scenes, it's illegal. Well, it's also weird that you can have sex with anybody you want for free. And there's no crime committed at all. But if money's exchanged somehow, you become a criminal. Both parties. Does anyone really have sex for free, though,

when you really think about it? Whoa, Anna, you just got deep. I didn't want to know this about you. I think, yeah, there's people that, yeah, there's people where it evens out where it's free on both sides. No, no, no. But what I mean by that is usually there's something else involved.

I'm not talking about money, but there are emotions involved. There's an exchange of emotions. There's an exchange of something. Fluids. You need to get rid of fluids. True. Yeah, yeah well you know there's there's obviously there's massive issues with men versus women as far as how they emotionally connect to sex and and also the the need like what i don't know what it's like to need sex as a woman i'm sure it's a very specific itch whereas with a male, I'm pretty sure after all my years of observing men and women in the different,

that is a different animal. I think the horniness for a man is very intoxicating and fogging and confusing. And I don't know if it is for women. I think that's why like a lot of women like a few cocktails first. They can light up the crazy furnace without. I think, I think the cocktails, I think men and women have similar

sexual desires. However, women are not allowed to be as open about it because of societal expectations and certain gender roles. If you are a woman who is open about how much you love sex and how often you want to have sex and how badly you need it, you are looked at as a hoe. There's no question about it. People will refer to you as a loose woman, a slutty woman. That's the reason why a lot of women like to have the cocktails before they have sex, because that'll allow them to let loose and do what they really want to do. Right. You know, without feeling guilty about it. At least that's my take. And then also, if you don't have sex, if you decide to save yourself for marriage or you save yourself for someone that you genuinely

love or whatever, then you're considered a prude. There's really no winning. Yeah, women have a you decide to save yourself for marriage or you save yourself for someone that you genuinely love or whatever, then you're considered a prude. There's really no winning. Yeah. Women have a total short end of the stick society and society wise when it comes to sex, without a doubt. But I think that if you wanted to say like, who's going to think that you're a hoe for enjoying sex? Well, it's definitely going to be women. It's going to be a lot of women that think you're a hoe and it's definitely going to be guys who you won't have sex with. So what's left? You're only left with two groups of guys. There's guys that would have zero

problem with it at all. And then there's guys that would only have a problem with it if you weren't attracted to them. That's, you know. And most likely it weeds out assholes. So if you were a chick and you were just like listen, I'm a freak. I like to get fucked all day long. That's what I know, and most likely it weeds out assholes. So if you were a chick and you were just like, listen, I'm a freak. I like to get fucked all day long.

That's what I'm into. You'll find exactly the right people you need in your life. That's an interesting perspective. I think girls won't want to have anything to do with you. I know. But you'll also attract a lot of really scary, pervy people. Oh, no doubt. Instantly.

Yeah. Because I think I think for a lot of people especially in the culture we're living right now if you're that open about your sexual desires you know people will see that as a green light to do things that might even be considered illegal you know whether it's harassment or sexual assault or something that's true and also i mean this is like probably uh bullshit but i would i would would imagine that if you're the type of person that starts getting into threesomes and tying each other up, you start getting really freaky, it's way easy to go too far with that. If you hear about someone like, I'm just into sex all day long, I just love sex, is it just sex, or how long does it take before a ball gag comes out? Is it a month in your

relationship you know like a year later what are you going to be into a year from now yeah just duct tape dude i like ripping it off of her you know there's people that get in like how does that happen they they go down one of those pervy roads yeah now you just got deep yeah you go down pervy road and you just can't get satisfied it's like people have this weird thing of constantly wanting progress. If they have a house that's 4,000 square feet, they want a house that's 5,000 square feet. If they make half a million dollars a year, they want to make a million dollars a year. They always want to take things to the next level. And that includes like freaky shit.

Well, that's the American way. You always want more, more. You want the bigger TV. And even I'm definitely guilty of that. You know, I live in a really modest apartment that I love. But the other day I was like, you know, I could probably go for a bigger apartment. But why? I live by myself. My apartment's fine. I don't need a bigger one. Right. When it comes to, you know, physical stuff, I think you kind of just get desensitized by things.

You know, there have been many studies about what porn does to the brain. And you start off by watching something that might be considered soft core and that's enough to, you know, do the job. And then all of a sudden you're watching more and more hardcore stuff and you just become desensitized to it. And for a lot of teenage boys that grow up on that kind of stuff, that's what they expect from women, you know, or girls once they start having sex. It's really scary stuff. And it's changing people's sexuality without a doubt. The bush is gone. The bush died because of porn. I heard that you're upset about that. I'm terrified. They let porn win. It just doesn't make sense. It's like everybody let porn win. Before, nobody had a problem until like 1990. Nobody had a problem with a hairy vagina.

It was just what it was. I mean, people trimmed around them, but generally there was a lot going on down there, especially if you dated an Italian girl or what have you. But now it's like their victory is just universal. It's like the victory over that aesthetic, the victory over the shaved, waxed genitals. Well, those women are supposed to symbolize male desire. They're supposed to symbolize what a man wants. And then that has an influence on regular women.

And they think, oh, am I supposed to look that way? Am I supposed to groom that way? There have been stories of women that injure themselves because they'll go get bleached in areas that they shouldn't be getting bleached. And it's just amazing to me that it's that influential. I know. Yeah, it's very strange. It's a silent influential thing. It is.

It's very odd. And when the markets were crashing and government bailouts were going down, I was fascinated. I was like, how come nobody ever wanted to bail out the porn industry? Like, why would they pretend that the porn industry isn't this giant monster business that all of a sudden just evaporated? Like, half of it, three-quarters of it, I don't know what the number of it that just disappeared. Yeah, because of the internet. Right.

So, like, who's pretending that this isn't a real business? Like, everyone's like, well, I guess they'll just have to exist on their own. Meanwhile, you're watching it. Like, that person's a fan of it. He probably has, like, a bunch of different videos that he has, like, bookmarked on his laptop or something. Yeah, definitely. But at the same time, which politician would come out and say, we need to bail out the porn industry? That would be political suicide.

We live in this puritanical society. I mean, that would be insane. Well, there's also the same sort of feeling that happened with the music business. The music business went out as well with the downloads of MP3s and file sharing. They lost a giant piece of revenue. I mean, it just evaporated. And no one really was considering bailing them out either. It was like, you know, you kind of should have figured this out, dummies.

Yeah, well, I agree with you on that. But at the same time, everything always goes back to who is funding our politicians. You know, Wall Street, these big bankers, these are the people that fund the campaigns for our politicians, which is why they just willy nilly went for the bailout. And by the way, after the bailout happened, we did nothing to break up these too-big-to-fail banks. They still exist, and they're still doing the same type of bullshit that'll lead to another economic collapse. I mean, the regulation that we passed was nothing. So it's just, it always goes back to money and politics, which, you know, we talk about on the show all the time.

If someone is funding you, whether it's the media or whether you're a politician, you're not going to go against them. You're always going to bail them out. Yeah. Terrence McKenna described it as a he how do you describe it? He described it as a special interest oligarchy disguising itself as a democracy. Oh, yeah. We have legalized bribery in this country. It's amazing, though, isn't it? I mean, when you really stop and think that it's gotten to the point that it is today where essentially it's open, it's pretty obvious, they control virtually every single aspect

of our economy, our society. It's all just money-generating hubs, these big giant spaceships filled with assholes that are just sucking money out of whatever, whether it's through oil or natural gas or whatever they're doing. Why do oil subsidies exist? It's a good question. Why don't people ask the government that? Like, why the hell are we giving these massive profitable oil companies subsidies? It's insane. At the same time, we're cutting funding for education.

We're privatizing public schools, which is a complete and utter disaster. Subsidies sounds like they should get it. It's like, well, there's oil subsidies. Oh, okay, oil subsidies. It's not like oil donations or oil payola. If they called it oil payola, people would go, wait a minute. What is that? Why do they get more? Don't they, people would go, wait a minute, what is that? Why do they get more?

Don't they have a lot of money? Yeah. What's happening here? Most profitable industry in the United States, in the world, you know? So it's frustrating stuff. But fortunately, you know, there are ways around it. Citizens United was a terrible Supreme Court ruling,

you know, which effectively allows corporations to act as people and make these unlimited campaign donations to politicians. So one way that you can get around that is by creating a constitutional amendment, which we're trying to do at the Young Turks. There's a political action committee that we formed called Wolfpack. Your audience can learn more about it at wolf-pack.com. And basically, it would have state leaders propose a resolution, and the resolution would create a constitutional convention where you can make an amendment to the Constitution that would get money out of politics. And that would fix so many problems, because then our broken democracy would change into a system that it was intended to be, where our elected politicians are supposed to represent us, the people, instead of corporations.

Well, when you back something in the corner and shine a light on it, you really get to know its true nature. And if that ever does come to play, it would be a very fascinating moment to see how the system that's in place today would deal with the idea of taking money out of politics and what kind of a scramble would take place. Yeah, that would be it would be quite weird to see. It would be. It's I'm not going to lie. It's definitely going to be difficult to do. I, you know, Cenk Uygur is really optimistic about it. I'm not as optimistic as he is. But I think that if if the American people become a little more politically active and they sign the petitions necessary and they hold their state representatives accountable, I think that this could happen. You know, it just takes a little bit of political activism. And unfortunately,

there's this huge level of apathy right now, which I don't understand because the political climate is leading to, you leading to this economic meltdown and all of the problems that people are experiencing right now, income inequality, wealth inequality. It's scary stuff. I mean, we lie to ourselves when we say that we live in the best country in the world. We have legalized bribery. We need to fix it. We need to fix our democratic process.

When you look at the future of this country, the way it's running, the way it is currently operated, how long can that, it seems like it's falling apart at the wheels. It seems like it's like this crazy thing that's spinning and shaking and sucking money out and freaking out. How long can this thing operate the way it is right now? I'm not sure. I mean, that's a really good question, but people are really starting to feel, you know, the downfall of how our system is working. Like, just to give you an example,

this number blows my mind. The top 10% in this country own 75% of the wealth. That is bananas. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of ballers. 10% ballers. 10% ballers. Everyone else is struggling. They're struggling. Top 1% owns one-third of the wealth in the country. And so people are struggling to make ends meet. And the reason why that's happening is because we're seeing these huge tax cuts for the most wealthiest people. Why is it that we're supposed to have the highest corporate

tax rate, but because of corporate loopholes, we actually have the lowest corporate tax rate? I mean, we got to get rid of those loopholes. And then you have the Republicans saying, yeah, you know what? We should raise taxes. One way we can do that is by getting rid of deductions. Which deduction do they want to go after? Homeowners. They want to go after people who get that interest rate deduction in their taxes. And that, of course, impacts the middle class. So there's just a lot of frustrating stuff going on. It seems like there's too much stuff going on for everybody to pay attention to everything. That's one of the reasons where the apathy comes in.

It's just too freaky. There's too much happening. It's too nutty. It's not going to get fixed. Shit. Close the shade. I'm going to take a nap. I'm going to watch the Kardashians or play video games or do whatever I need to do to distract myself. And I don't blame people for doing that. A lot of these issues are really complicated and complex. You have to sit down and do so much research. We have this mainstream media that's also broken. They're not reporting the real news. You know, you have to really depend on independent media to get real facts.

And so I don't blame people for wanting to be distracted. But at the same time, if we allow things to continue the way they are, we're going to have the wealthiest people living in their castles with moats around them. While we're going to struggle to find private security because everything that is publicly funded is going to be defunded, including our education. We're seeing that happen now. Nobody ever wants to think that the operating system that we have that runs our society could fall apart. Nobody ever wants to think that all of a sudden there would be no cops because they don't get paid. But that's happened in places like Camden, New Jersey. Yep. Perfect example.

They didn't have cops. It's insane. And of course, I mean, it's common sense. Their crime rate shot up as a result of that. Of course. It was a free ride. Yep. I mean, if you were like a really bad person, that's like the best place to move in the country. Yep.

People are like, look, there's no cops. They don't even have them. Yeah. That's a small little crumbling in the foundation of our society. Just a little one. And, you know, maybe they fixed it for now, but eventually that could happen. There was an Anthony Bourdain special I was watching today. Love him, by the way. Yeah, he's great. His new show, the CNN show, he was in Detroit and he was just going over these factories where they used to

make these amazing cars. And now they're just completely falling apart. And it's freaky. It's freaky to see how this city of 2 million-plus people now is, like, less than 700,000, and you can buy a house for, like, 500 bucks. And he was, like, touring around the city and checking it out. And I was, like, if that can happen that quickly, that's just one city. That can happen other places, too.

Like, this whole thing is, like, barely hanging together with chewing gum. And I think the most frustrating part about that is, you know, we have politicians that will pass policies that lead to the collapse of certain cities. California is in a lot of trouble right now because of a proposition we passed in 1978 called Proposition 13. It capped property taxes at 1.2%. And as a result, we started defunding our education, which is why the LAUSD went from being one of the best school districts in the country to being one of the worst school districts in the country. And we just lost out on a ton of revenue as a result of our low, very low property taxes. And so they'll pass policies

like that. In the case of California, of course, Californians voted for it, which was disastrous. But then at the same time, they'll cut government programs that'll help the poorest people, whether it's the SNAP program or the food stamp program or, you know, the welfare programs or whatever that help needy kids. And it's like, look, if you don't want to spend this much money on governmental programs or social programs, then stop passing policies and tax cuts that make it really, really difficult for people to make ends meet. Well, I think if it wasn't for shows like yours and people like you and Cenk who are

exposing this stuff and people in the new media, people that are writing these very, very popular blogs, if it wasn't for that, this information wouldn't be going out. And if the information wasn't going out, people wouldn't realize what a clusterfuck it really is. They would tune into the nightly news and get this sense that everything's going to be okay, which is basically what America did until the internet came around. Yeah, definitely. It seems like within the 10, 15 plus years of the active internet, the whole world has just stopped and went, wait, what the fuck are we doing? Like, everyone's shaking their head, looking left and right.

Confusion, turmoil, and questioning on a level that I don't think we've seen before. And this weird new thing where anybody can just stick a camera and attach, you know, USB it to a laptop and boom, you're online. I know. Making YouTube videos or making MP3s. It's incredible. It's a weird, weird time. It gets me really excited, like just thinking about it, because the possibilities are endless. And I mean, we had the Young Turks, we had no marketing budget, we had no publicity,

we had nothing. All we did was create a business model that worked. Cenk does the really serious political reporting, which I'm jealous of. That's what I want to do. And then I come in and I do the stuff that goes viral online. Why would you be jealous of paying attention to this system? I love politics. Really? I love politics. And don't get me wrong.

Why don't you marry it? Maybe I will. No, I love, I mean, I studied political science for my master's and it's just always been a passion of mine since I was in high school. So even though things are really bad right now, I have this passion to try to make a difference. And so I see Cenk making a difference and I'm really proud of him. And he's someone that's been my mentor, someone that I look up to. And, you know, I want to be able to analyze politics as well as he does. At the same time, you know, I was brought in for something completely different.

I was brought in to make the company money. And that's basically what I do. The stories that I cover in my hour of the show are sometimes very important social stories. You know, whether it's gay rights, women's rights, whatever, you know, men's rights when it comes to how they get screwed over, you know, when it comes to children and marriage and basically the law. Men are basically screwed over when it comes to sexual harassment and stuff, but women aren't. Like, it's amazing.

But that's a side note. But then, you know, I'll do the stories that are really stupid, but people love them. Like we'll do a Miley Cyrus story and it'll get like millions of views and we'll make a ton of money off that video. But there's no value to that story. So I always feel guilty doing it. So I'll have I'll have days where I'm just like, yeah, I'm I'm a big failure. This is what I do for my life. And I feel guilty about it. I'm a big failure. This is what I do for my life.

And I feel guilty about it. I hear what you're saying. But at the same time, following politics is like following some fucking fake minstrel show. It's fake. It's discouraging. There's no question about it. I mean, it's like I always had this conversation with Jamie Kilstein once, a dude from Citizen Radio. And they were talking about politics. and they were talking about politics.

And I go, do you ever think that by following this fake horse and pony show that you're like lending credence to it? Because you're an intelligent person, and you're pretending this isn't all just assholes who are getting bribed, because that's what it really is. It's really just a bunch of assholes that are getting bribed, and they're cronyism and all this weird shit going on with laws and things they can and can't get away with and what they can and can't get away with and what they can and can't get charged with?

Well, I mean, look, there's a huge difference between political reporters in the mainstream that just report on it, but they don't really give a shit about making a difference. And then there's a huge difference between people like Jamie and Allison on Citizen Radio or the Young Turks or any other, you know, what is it called? Ugh, name just lost me. Alex Jones? No, not Alex Jones. Infowars.com.

Alex Jones hates us. You guys have been stealing our thunder. We're coming at you with YouTube views. Infowars.com, the number one media source in the nation. Young Turks tries to pretend they have similar ratings. So you've seen that. That's awesome. Alex is a friend of mine.

Is he? Yeah, he's crazy. Yeah, he's crazy. He's out of his mind. He's out of his mind. I have no problem with him. He's a great guy, though. You'd love him.

If you met him, he's a sweetheart. Cenk did meet him, and he ended up liking him. So I believe it. I believe it. But his response video to us was hilarious on so many different levels. Like, put a shirt on, dude. Put a fucking shirt on. Like, if you're trying to make a decent point and you don't want to seem like you're loony, put a fucking shirt on. But don't. If you're Alex Jones, you don't need a fucking shirt.

By the way, he's probably naked, too. Don't tell me that most likely his website no one's gonna care i'm number one oh i love this video period globally even rolling stone new york magazine all the gun actuaries i'm number one he's number one period yeah by the way he's here's one thing he's missing. It's his shirt. He's going to address that later. He's crazy. I've known Alex for a long time. I did a DVD in 1999, and he and I put on Bush masks.

I was Bush's junior, and he was Bush's senior. And we put on these masks. We ran around the Austin State Capitol, like the front yard like and filmed it when Bush got elected and the title of the DVD was belly of the beast so I like it was right when Bush was getting elected we decided to do this in Austin and he him and me are in this this video and he's singing a song he sings this like crazy New World Order song he wrote oh that's that's not us. That's a different one. The other one.

We were actually wearing these masks. But I've known him forever. He's a really good guy. I don't deny that. I'm sure he is a good guy. Tell me the truth. Is he playing a role when he's on camera? Because I don't believe that he's really that crazy.

Like, some of the stuff he says, I just don't believe he believes. I do not know. I would not pretend to know. I think he's a very complex man. I think there's a lot going on beneath the surface. There's a lot of layers to that cake. And I think that a lot of people look at him and think he's a screaming maniac. But he was right about a lot of shit a long time ago.

He was saying that the NSA is going to be reading all your emails and looking through all your... He said they're going to make deals with major data networks, with AT&T and Google. He was saying this a long time ago. And I specifically remember having conversations with a friend and him. And my friend was like, that is so crazy. Why would they do that?

They're not going to do that. Do you really think that the law would ever let them do that? The law! The law! They own the law! And he'll get fucking crazy and he'll go Alex Jonesy on you. But, you know, here's the thing. That strategy or that delivery is effective because there have been people who have been reporting

about, you know, civil liberties violations for a while and they get no attention. So sometimes the squeaky wheel will get the attention. And, you know, if if that's what he needs to do to get coverage of those important news stories, it's totally fine. The thing is, you know, there are little sprinkles of truth to some of the stuff that he reports. And then some of the stuff that he reports is just crazy and it's made up. So it's like I don't know where to fall with that guy because I want to support him with some stories. But then other stories, I'm like, dude, you need to tone it down. Well, I don't know what the process is for acquiring information, vetting it out, and then publishing it and yelling at the YouTube channel. I don't know what the process is.

But I know that he's right about a lot of things. And I know that he's passionate about a lot of things. But I think that he probably needs a better filter. Yeah. You know, I think there's a few rants he'll go on where you're like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. What the fuck are they doing?

Yeah. Chemtrails! Do you understand how many planes are in the sky every night spraying chemtrails, blocking out the sun? I can't even fucking grow tomatoes here in Austin, Texas! No, no, no. Your impression of him is amazing. I've been hanging out with him for fucking more than a decade.

That's uncanny. That's insane. But he'll go off about something, and then you'll go, but did you know that this and that and that, you'll have counters to those, but those don't get in there. Yeah. Those don't get in there. They get New World ordered out. They get Black helicoptered out.

Yeah, yeah. They just ricochet off. He wants to see a conspiracy in every fucking thing that's ever existed ever. If you come up to him about whatever it is, name it, JFK, the Iran-Contra, Whitewater, death of Vince Foster, there's a million stories! They never end.

He'll just fucking come at you. But he's been right about a lot of stuff that's really freaky. One thing that he reported on that very few people caught was the use of paid police officers to pretend to be people that are in a crowd protesting. And then agent provocateurs. And they would start smashing things.

He covered this in Seattle when the World Trade Organization was making their, I believe it was the 90s, when there was these massive protests and the protests went violent. Well, he has all these photos of their bottom of their boots, military-issue Vibrams, and he points all this out. These are police officers. They're wearing masks. No one else is. And they're the only ones doing any damage. They're smashing things, and they're doing it so then the police can come in

and start arresting peaceful people, which they normally couldn't do. And I thought that was the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. The crazy thing is, you know, when it came to the Occupy protesters, they weren't even agent provocateurs. They were just cops, like, breaking shit and starting the violence. And, you know, they got a little bit of criticism for it, but the media would pick up the story and make it seem as though the Occupy protesters were the violent ones. Of course.

They would do everything necessary to discredit them which made me so angry because finally in this country there was a little bit of political activism they change the conversation because we were talking about bullshit until occupy came along and talked about what wealth inequality uh... and then you know you have the mainstream the totally discredited them and then they just kind of fizzled out.

And I had so much hope for that movement. Do you know what fucked that movement? Them not being organized. Soap. Soap? Soap. They didn't get enough soap. Oh, I see what you're saying.

There's too many stinky motherfuckers out there in drum circles. That was a big part of it. I covered Occupy LA and Occupy Oakland. Occupy Oakland was a scary um situation to cover because they're they were a lot more militant there i mean their intentions were in the right place but their delivery was a little scary so i just kind of felt like shit could hit the fan yeah like one wrong move and violence could break out uh but but they they it was because they were overly protective.

They knew what was happening to other protesters. You know, look at what happened at UC Davis, I think, with that cop spraying that pepper spray on those students that are just sitting there. So I think that they were just overly protective, as they should have been, because of the treatment that all these protesters were dealing with. And the treatment throughout history.

I mean, all they have to do is go back and to look at what was going on during the Vietnam War, look at what happened at Kent State when they started shooting. The National Guard is shooting at students that were protesting. I mean, that's not that long ago. People were aware of that kind of stuff. But when I saw this Alex Jones thing, I really thought it was the dumbest thing I'd ever seen. I was like, there's no way that could ever be possible.

There's no way. And then he presents it like very clearly, very cleanly over and over again, all the different news stories that pointed to different various incidents that took place, including them sequestered. They got all of the agent provocateurs in a house. The cops negotiated with them and then let them go. I mean, the whole thing was like so cut and dry and clear. When you have evidence backing up, you know, your belief that something is a conspiracy, then of course, I mean, you have strong evidence and I'll believe it. But it's one thing to have the evidence. It's another thing to purport that something is going on and then not having

the evidence. That's why I said, I think he needs a filter. I think he's got a lot of his heart and his intentions in the right place. And the dude will go to war. He'll fucking roll his sleeves up and duke it out in the street with somebody. He's fucking crazy. Alex is nuts. He's a madman. But he's also a good guy.

I just think that he needs a filter. But he's right more than he's wrong. I'll tell you that. Especially now. This is Alex and me. He's right more than he's wrong. I'll tell you that, especially now. This is Alex and me.

And that's Alex on the left and me on the right. And this is his song. Oh, my God. That's Alex singing. That's great. That's my buddy. There he is. He sounds like a fun person to hang out with Yeah, he's very fun to hang out with

He's great to drink beers with He's a good dude, he's funny He says a lot of really funny shit He's a good guy too, he's a sweetheart So did he ever talk to you about why he got on us? About views? No, I don't ask him any questions about things like that He's been in some disputes with friends of mine.

He's been in disputes with all kinds of people. Let's go. It's just Alex, man. You're going to have to deal with that on your own. That is really funny. Yeah. But he's, like I say, he's a good guy. He wants a better America.

He really does. He's not a greedy guy. He's not a guy who's in it for the money. He'll give you the shirt off his back. Yeah. Clearly. I've already sent it. Send it using stamps.com. He's not a guy who's in it for the money. He'll give you the shirt off his back. Clearly. I've already sent it.

Send it using stamps.com. He really is, like, the real deal. Like, he really wants a better America. He really wants to get out all the corruption, the scum. But he believes that the global elites are trying to live to be 1,000 years old. What they're doing right now with stem cells, the reason why the Bush administration. And they'll just, like. How did you meet him how did that happen uh i met him uh in texas through a friend of mine i was friends with him i knew him from uh his radio day well he still has a radio show but now it's more internet based but he had a radio show i think his radio show is

still pretty popular though and like those dudes that have those fucking those uh ham radios yeah yeah they tune in with two of the alex jones they're fucking just thinking that that's there's that thinking that the only problem with that is just that thinking that goes along with that which is like collect gold like dig a hole in the ground for a nuclear shelter like preppers and people start putting battering rams in their pickup trucks crazy i's crazy. I don't think that's the way to do it. I don't want to live my life like that, where you're constantly paranoid and you're worried about doomsday. Look, there's some really scary shit happening in the government right now.

And I will not take away from that. But I don't believe in the doomsday preppers. Like, they need to calm down. Their paranoia is misplaced. Unless something happens like what happened two days ago in the Philippines. Yeah. That's the real issue. Yeah.

Mother nature. Mother nature is the issue and we keep fucking with her. Yeah, allegedly. Allegedly. Because, you know, not enough scientists agree on, you know, man-made climate change. Excuse me. There's plenty of scientists that disagree. They all happen to be working for oil companies

and gas companies. The Koch brothers will fund scientists to put out studies that claim that either climate change does not exist, this is just a normal trend that we're experiencing with our planet, or that it exists but it's

not created by humans. They went way back to the 1950s. They were doing trend that we were experiencing with our planet or that it exists but it's not you know created by humans well they went way back to the 1950s they were doing that with cigarettes when when people were trying to come out saying hey i think these things are giving us cancer yeah they fucking funded a shitload of studies they were like no look it's actually good for you yeah they can find certain things uh we were talking about on the podcast yesterday where nicotine actually can be a medicine in certain circumstances. I think it can help people with heart issues and ADHD issues and all these different things. So you could find a way to rationalize if you were a real piece of shit that you should probably smoke cigarettes.

Yeah. You won't get ADHD. Yeah. I mean it's just like another example of money influencing the behavior of Americans and the information that gets put out there. Yeah. When we were talking earlier about being addicted to items and being addicted to things and how you wanted to get a bigger apartment, even though you don't need it. I'm guilty as charged, too. But I think about it all the time. think about it all the time and what I'm starting to believe is that human beings like the reason why We we like to think of ourselves as being something that we're much more in control of than just the woes of nature

But I kind of think that more more likely than that Everything is natural and even though we break down like ant behavior is being natural and wolf behavior is being natural But humans well, you know, we have free will and we have education and we have maybe. But when I look at like the trend, like where it is right now, I don't know how it got here, but let's pretend it's all nature. What is it doing? Well, what it's doing is it's making things. It's making crazier and crazier things every day. The whole race is working together.

And one of the ways it ensures that people consistently technologically innovate is by making it attractive to have the newest, latest shit. Yeah. And everybody wants it. And like, ooh, that new Lexus. Look at that commercial. Oh my God, I got to have it. And it's a fucking new laptop and it's a new phone and it's a new earpiece. I mean, it's also, it's also a status thing. It's a status symbol to have the latest and greatest. No doubt. We recently covered this story about barney's i don't know if you talked about it on your show but there was this uh... young black man who went into a barney's he purchased a

three hundred fifty dollar belt with the debit card and uh... allegedly at the cashier called the authorities on him because she didn't believe that a black guy can afford this $350 belt. So the cops came. They started questioning him. They said, you know, we need proof indicating that that's your debit card. He had to call Chase and prove like, yes, that is his debit card. You know, they like detained him for a little while and then finally they let him go.

So he's suing Barney's now for racial profiling. So we'll see how that case plays out. But, you know, aside from the racial profiling component of that story, I was just shocked that, I think he's 19, that a 19-year-old would save up multiple paychecks, by the way, to buy a $350 belt. And it goes against everything I believe. I hate that kind of materialism. And'm not he's a victim here so i'm not trying to criticize him it's more of a societal thing where we all want to show off our new shiny handbag and it's fucking bullshit i hate when women fall for that crap when they work multiple months just to afford like a 2500 handbag and it's like who are you

trying to prove like what are you trying to like, who are you trying to prove? Like, what are you trying to prove? And who are you trying to prove it to? You're trying to show off to other women, right? Which, by the way, if you're like a real woman, I think that you shouldn't get jealous by that kind of crap. You know? If you're a real woman. Whoa, you said it like a real man.

Very masculine-like. No, I have this. As I get older, I mean, I'm getting obsessed with a person's character. And I care less and less about the bullshit that doesn't matter. So when I was younger, you know, I got brainwashed into thinking, hey, you know what? You need to make sure that you marry a guy who's like really established in his career because you want to make sure he can take care of you. Fuck that.

I want to take care of myself. Like, I don't need a guy to take care of me. And that's not to say that I don't want a man in my life. I definitely do. I want a partner in my life and I want it to be like a real partnership where we help each other out. But at the same time, like this obsession with materialism makes me sick to my stomach. It's distracting and it makes people feel that if they can't afford certain things, then they're not good enough, that they're not worthy. If they don't have the money to shop at Barney's, then they're less than. Well, I definitely think you're right from a sociological aspect. I feel like the whole desire is fruitless and silly and weird,

and it exists more with people that can't have it and want it very badly. But there's a lot of people that are rich that just go shopping every day, but the hole never gets filled. It's never like the big rush that you get. At least if you're poor and you buy a $2,000 watch, you're like, holy shit, and you look at it and you're like, I can't believe I got it. But if you're really wealthy, if you're some billionaire character, it's nothing. It doesn't even register.

It's like this dull thumping on your helmet because it never really gets to skin. I just, I don't like making people feel like they're worthless because they can't afford certain things. Isn't that them? I mean, who makes them feel like that? Isn't it on them? It's in pop culture. I mean, look, listen to pop culture. Listen to all the rap songs and all that.

Oh, you know, I got my new Cadillac or whatever. New Cadillac or whatever you're hilarious i don't think they brag about that good car don't get me wrong whatever whatever i got my maybach right right they rap about that shit who cares about your maybach you know like i don't know why people are so obsessed with that and then these young kids think oh my god i gotta work really hard for that maybach which is why so many people get involved in the financial sector and they sell their souls because they just want to be rich. And we need people who want to be teachers, you know, albeit most of them get screwed over with really, really crappy salaries and we should definitely pay our teachers better. But people don't gravitate toward jobs that actually help the community because they're

so obsessed with making money. And I hate seeing our brightest students go toward the financial sector instead of, you know, focusing on jobs that do help the community, whether it's, you know, in fields that lead to technological innovation or to medical innovation. And of course, doctors make a lot of money. But, you know But a lot of scientists that do some serious research that really benefits society don't make a lot of money. It's true. And so I just hate the incentive structure that we have these days.

And this emphasis on always having the newest, most expensive item available. Yeah, it's definitely ridiculous. But as a person trying, make an attempt to look at it objectively, if I was like an alien species coming down to observe Earth, I would say they're in a mad scramble to create the next technological marvel. They're in a mad scramble to create the new internet, the next thing.

And they're going to go from that to the next thing. They're transforming themselves. Essentially, it's a long-term cocoon that turns a caterpillar into a butterfly. It's just taking a few hundred years. But technologically, there's some sort of a symbiotic relationship that we have with technology, and that's fueled by materialism. Yes. This materialism drive, it ensures that people consistently buy the newest things, innovate, and constantly try to impress with the latest. Sociologically, I agree with you 100 yeah

but i think that there's there's probably something more going on yeah we're just not aware of because we're like trapped in the middle of the hurricane of it all yeah i think you make a really good point about you know uh gadgets and technology i guess what i'm more focused on is just like the designer bullshit that people buy into that kind of stuff really frustrates me i just think it's a side shoot of the same issue. The money thing too. Think about that. This desire to pursue massive amounts of money and change. What is that all really

doing? I mean, if it's all just a pool of money and everybody's trying to keep it moving and keep it active, what does it really do? Well, it buys things. And if it's buying things, someone's making things. Someone's making things, they're going to keep improving those things because everybody wants the newest thing. It's basically the same engine, this innovation engine that's pushing forward.

And we're all trapped up in it, calling it culture and calling it all these other different things. But what it really is is a mad scramble to make new technology. So what's your guilty pleasure? What do you like to splurge on, even though you might feel it might be? Pool cues. Really? Yeah. Does that get expensive?

Yeah, they get expensive. What? Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's an art form to making pool cues, believe it or not. And I play a lot of pool. Okay. And I used to play.

I was obsessed. I used to play eight, ten hours a day when I lived in New York. What? Yeah, when my manager was telling me that it was affecting my career. Because I was paying more attention to playing pool than I was to comedy. Yeah, I was completely obsessed. But there's not that many pool cue manufacturers, makers, but the artisans, the real handmade ones. Like there's a guy named Zambodi, Barry Zambodi, who's like world famous.

His dad was Gus Zambodi. He's like one of the original pool cue makers. Like that name has like a lot of weight to it. And these cues are like this artistic functional art that you could play pool with, but they're also like really beautiful. I'm fascinated by them. My friend Eric has a company called Sugar Tree

and he makes these beautiful cues all based on woods that are really exotic and strange burls and weird figure in the wood. And he's just obsessed with wood. And because when you buy one of his cues or you play one of it, you could literally see the passion that it took that this guy made, this guy who's obsessed with wood. He's obsessed with different grains and tonal qualities and aging them. And it's this real artistic expression. And it just, it's a functional piece of art. I'm obsessed with them. Yeah.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. That's very like obscure. Like I've never heard anyone talk about pool cues. Yeah, that's my, I have a big cabinet full of them. That's my guilty pleasure. Nice, nice. I just love to play pool. Nice.

It's a stupid thing to do. It doesn't matter whether the ball goes in the hole, but it does matter. Everything matters. If that's what you find pleasurable and it helps you blow off steam or whatever, go for it. There's nothing wrong with that. I think there's a microcosm to life in it. I think there's a thing about pool. See, these are these are uh

handcrafted pool cues so how much do these cost am i allowed to ask yeah they some of them can cost several thousand dollars wow those ones you're looking at those are probably two or three thousand at least that's really pretty yeah and they get real intricate and there's different ways they splice them together like you see those things at the end. Like those little things inside of them are little inlays. And as you get further out, those are different pieces of wood that are spliced in together. That's insane. And glued in place and then spun on a lathe. And they're exotic woods.

Like that's ebony. And you can see all these different inlays. Some of them are probably made out of ivory and silver and all these. They used to be legal to buy ivory to make pool cues with. They used to make the balls out of ivory. And then people realized what a piece of shit you have to be to kill an elephant. So they cut that off. But there's so much ivory left over.

It's really kind of sad. There's so much left over from when they were just slaughtering elephants before they started regulating it that you can get ivory to make inlays and stuff in pool queues it's everywhere so it becomes like a real issue like a moral issue you have to think like wow is that kind of fucked up but then it's like well what do you what are they going to do with the the animals like been dead since 1970 and they've had these tusks are you just going to let them go to waste or is it better to like put them in a museum where people can look at them? It's kind of an interesting moral dilemma. But my friend Eric uses this fossilized mastodon

bone that he got. He uses 10,000 year old fossilized walrus ivory that came from the discovery. How does he even get his hands on that? That's insane. His sister's an archaeologist. Wow. Yeah. That's fascinating.

Yeah. I think it's his sister. But yeah, he's like really into, I mean, he doesn't use like that many, he doesn't use like that many inlays. His is all just about the wood, like the quality of the wood. I like that. I like that. That's really interesting.

I never, I would have never guessed that they could get that expensive. Oh, they get really expensive. The old ones, there's a man named Balabushka who lived in, you know, like the 1960s and 1970s, I think he made cues. And in the movie, The Color of Money, Paul Newman gave Tom Cruise a Balabushka. And just by saying that name, those cues started being worth $25,000, $30,000. Because there's a finite number of them. There's a fact, it's probably the cue that has the most forgeries.

It's like Zambodi and balabushka, the two. A lot of fakes. A lot of people, they'll just knock it off and pretend it's one of them. Because you could sell it for $25,000. Your guilty pleasure is much better than mine. Mine is just food. Food? I can't really think of an object that I like to spend a lot of money on.

I just like to spend a lot of money on a good experience. If I'm going to travel or if I'm going to eat at a nice restaurant, I'm going to go all out and not feel bad about it. But that's pretty much it. That just sounds like life. I know. That's not a guilty pleasure. I know, I guess.

I'm trying to think. I'm a huge bargain shopper. I don't really buy anything at full price. I'm not really into that. What you just said, this is interesting. Is this because of the way, like, your responsibility that you feel for looking at the world and seeing how fucked up things are that you feel bad spending a couple hundred bucks on a nice meal is that like what it is that like it becomes a guilty pleasure because you're like fuck it i'm just gonna do it but normally yeah maybe maybe i think that there's something subconsciously that makes me feel guilty

about it but i can't really put my finger on it i think it's because i know how hard i work and you know seeing all that money go toward one experience or one meal makes me feel a little bad. But I actually, what I like to do is if I'm going to go out and I'm going to spend some serious money, I make sure that I take people with me and I spend the money on them as well. Because then I feel like I'm doing something good for my friends. And I read this study about how the happiest people will actually spend money on others. And it's totally true. You feel really good when you take care of other people. So, you know, I usually do that.

That's not my guilty pleasure. That's the one thing that I will splurge on and I won't feel guilty about it. I'll feel really good about it. And then I hope, you know, one day when my friends are in the mood, like, they they'll take me out and they'll do the same thing. Hopefully one day you're waiting, right? I mean, my friends, I love my friends. I'm in a really, as someone in my age group, I'm in a really great place financially because I lived at home for a long time. I saved money. I was with someone that I was going to buy a house with, um, that didn't work out. saved money. I was with someone that I was going to buy a house with. That didn't work out. So now I just have money that I'm not going to put toward a house and I can do other things with it. So I

like to treat my friends to things once in a while. You don't have to justify it. Yeah. But it seems like a part of you, because you're such a conscious and aware person, realizes that you're in this rare circumstance. Yeah. So it feels like a guilty pleasure. I feel, I don't know if it's guilt, but I feel bad about a lot of things. Do you have white guilt? No, I don't have, white guilt is something I don't have, especially because, and by the way, I love that accusation that we get from our audience time to time. All the fucking time. And it's so funny because like, I'm Armenian.

Like both my, both my parents came from Armenia. So they, they didn't have, like my ancestors didn't have slaves. Are you trying to tell me you're not white? I'm white, but I'm not like, I'm not American. You know what? I am American. Okay, this is not sounding good. But like to say that I have white guilt would imply that I have ancestry that did hideous things to black people which is why I now want to raise awareness about issues of racism and that's not true I want to raise awareness about that is because I want genuine equality you know you see cases where racial profiling does exist no doubt and you want to you want to raise

awareness about that because you want society to progress you don't want to pretend as though these societal ills don't exist. They do exist. But at the same time, you don't want to demonize people either. You don't want to make blanket statements about all white people. That's insane. Yeah, I've heard some pretty ridiculous blanket statements. But what's really important is that the idea of racism should be eventually, it shouldn't exist anymore. One day, it should come a time where that has been ironed out of the human culture.

We've beaten it down. It seems like if you go back to a few thousand years ago when they were burning people at the stake for various beliefs, we've managed to get past that. We've managed to get past killing neighbors, you know, the rival countries that were like a block away from each other in Europe. We managed to get past killing neighbors, you know, the rival countries that were like a block away from each other in Europe. We managed to get past all that.

I wonder if one day we're going to get to a point where we don't give a fuck when anybody's racist. I wonder if there's going to be some economic evenness where it'll eventually all smooth out where it won't matter. I wonder the same thing. I'm not as optimistic about it, though, to be honest. I'm pretty optimistic. You are? Yeah, I didn't used to be. But as time's gone on, the Internet is what makes me optimistic. When I see like justice and the voice of the Internet, it seems to be a very ethical, moral voice. What do you think about, you know, some of the vigilante justice that you see online,

like in the case of the Steubenville rape case and how Anonymous, you know, kind of rallied behind that victim. I thought that was really inspiring. It's important. Yeah, it's huge that that stuff has to happen. It has to happen. You can't let people do that because that could be your daughter. That could be your friend. That could be your mom. That could be anybody. You can't let that happen. And they can't let that fucking happen either. The fact that they let that happen, you've got to clean that whole place out That's a disaster anybody who's involved in that. What did you do? What the fuck did you do? You you just open the door for this kind of shit to be swept under the rug by future generations

Who find out about this as well? This is like when when there's a gross injustice and it's and it doesn't get rectified There's there's this weird thing that happens where it can spawn more gross injustice. Yeah, I mean, it sets a precedent. And if one person can get away with doing that type of act or behaving in a certain way, then other people will think, like, well, I can do that. I can get away with that. And, you know, in the case of the Steubenville rape case, In the case of the Steubenville rape case, I was actually really shocked at how many people bullied the girl after she was raped. And you see more and more stories like that popping up all over the place. I think it's a human nature issue with a lot of young kids that have not been, not only have not been raised correctly,

but I think there's a lot of people that are just letting their kids raise themselves and they're not even having conversations with them. And they're growing up with like animal instincts and animal instincts are to go after injured animals. There's a weird thing. It's scary. It's a terrifying thing, especially when the injured animal is claiming that the alpha, the social alphas have, have done this thing to them, you know, and then the social alphas are saying they didn't do it.

And then there's this weird sort of an appeasement thing going on where people are trying to gain the favor of the alphas by shitting on the victim. It's terrifying stuff. It's the worst aspects of humankind is this weird thing that we can have when we gang up. And the parents of the victim, I give them all the credit in the world

because I'm going to be completely honest. If I were in that position, I don't know if I would be able to prevent myself from doing something that would lead me to getting prosecuted and thrown in jail. Yeah. Something happens to men that get together and a bunch of idiot men get together. They think that that's something that they can do. And in the case of Steubenville, they're boys. They're teenagers

and they think they can get away with it. Well, it's just men, period. I mean, young men, old men. There's a man thing that can happen if there's too many dummies and they get together and they start thinking that they're making sense or that they should just fucking do this.

That's where, like, gang murders take place and gang beatings. And, you know, I'm sure there's a similar sort of group mentality that happens with women. But it doesn't seem to turn into as much of a victimization thing. It can happen. I've heard of, like, groups of women beating up other women. I've heard of that. You know, if a girl, like, fucks some girl's husband or something like that and she'd get her friends and they all beat the shit out of the girl. I've heard of that. Oh, yeah. You know, if a girl, like, fucks some girl's husband or something like that and she'd get her friends and they all beat the shit out of the girl.

I've heard of that kind of stuff happening. Jesus. Scary stuff. I've heard of stories of women raping men. Paula. Terrible. We were talking about this on the podcast yesterday, the problem with male rights organizations.

Oh, you guys must have gotten some serious hate for that. No, no, no. Because my point is always that, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of dudes who get fucked over when it comes to divorce laws. The problem is when male rights advocates get disingenuous. Like, they were talking about rape issues. They were saying the number one group that gets raped

in this country is men in prison. The problem with that is, of course, that men are raping those men. It's more proof that men are cunts. Men are raping men. It's a stupid argument. That's the worst thing you should ever say. You're just saying that we're just rapers.

We rape each other. We don't give a fuck. We'll rape anybody. That doesn't mean that men are victims. If men are victims from men, how does that support the point that that's the real issue? That's actually a really good point. That's a really good point.

Well, it's a dumb point. It's a disingenuous thing that they're saying. Yeah. Like, guys aren't really wandering around life worried about getting raped. They worry about it if they get imprisoned. I just worry that, you know, the men's rights movement is a response to, like, radical feminism. And I have a lot of issues with radical feminism because when you pretend as though women are always the ones that get screwed over and men don't deal with certain

double standards and certain issues, then you're being disingenuous. You know, you're doing a disservice to your own movement. I mean, there are some serious issues with the way women are perceived in media, for instance. You know, the way I'm perceived in the media is very different from how Cenk is perceived in the media, very different from how you're perceived in the media. You know, the comments that you will get usually will question the legitimacy or accuracy of something that you've said. The comments that I get don't necessarily criticize the legitimacy of what I'm saying. Of course, I get comments like that as well. But how often do you get comments about, oh, I want Anna to sit on my face, or I want Joe to sit on my face? I get that from dudes.

Oh, all the time? Once a month. I stand corrected then. Once a month. Some gay bear wants me to stick it in their mouth or something. Oh, wow. Okay. That happens. It does happen. It's not as much, though, I'm sure. I wouldn't even pretend. I think that it's much more courageous. I don't want to sound like I'm kissing your ass, but it's much more courageous for a woman to do what you do than a man to do what you do. For a man to do what you do, it's like men with opinions

are as common as birds that shit on cars. They're everywhere. Everywhere you look, a man has an opinion. But women with an opinion that go public and have this very strong stance they take on things and expect to be taken seriously. It's a lot like female stand-up comedians. Because female stand-up comedians, they're so limited in topics. Because men don't want to hear you talk about politics.

Men don't want to hear women talk about certain things. Anything where you're telling people how to live their lives, men don't want to hear that from women. It's just a giant group of men just shut you off. I think... Much harder. I think that, you know, younger generations are becoming way more open to that. Like, we have a really young audience,

and for the most part, I think that they're open to me talking about politics. Like I said, I don't get to do that as often as I would like on the show, because that's not my role on the show but there is a huge chunk of our audience that's very open-minded toward that however there's also a chunk of the audience and I'm just going based on what I've read on YouTube so there's a huge silence silent part of our audience that I never get to hear from

but there is also a portion that just immediately sees me and thinks, oh, she's a young, whatever, relatively good looking. And so they immediately see a correlation there with moronic behavior like, oh, she's attractive. She must be. Well, you've had a free ride. That's what they think. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Willie Walker's golden ticket.

You're pretty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll get comments, you know, asking, you know, what kind of sexual favors I gave my male colleagues to get to the position that I'm in. How rude. And it's so degrading because obviously none of that has ever happened. But to belittle the hard work that I've put into my career really, really grinds my gears. Okay, but what you're doing right now is you're feeding the trolls. I'm feeding the fucking trolls. Right now you just fed the you're feeding the trolls. I'm feeding the fucking trolls.

Right now, you just fed the shit out of the trolls. I know, they loved it. You just had a Thanksgiving troll dinner because you brought in all the comments of you having sex with your boss in order to get your job. Everything. You said it all. Yeah. And how offended you were of that.

They win. They just rang a troll bell. I know, I know. But to be absolutely honest, I completely stopped reading comments. So they can go ahead and write them as much as they want. I'm not going to read them. You just fucked up right there, sister. You just opened up the gates of hell.

Do your thing, boys. No, don't do it. Be kind, boys and girls. Everyone be kind. Yeah, there's a real problem with writing things down online and not having any social cues. Not like looking at you and say, you know you know Anna I watched your thing on science and you know I just want you to know that your grasp of physics is a bit off and right this and you would go oh I'm you know I don't know shit about science then you'd laugh

ha ha ha yeah you both laugh together and that would be it you want that same guy on YouTube who's a fucking dumb bitch doesn't know shit about science yeah yeah yeah cuz he isn't in front of you he's not talking to you totally again as a human it goes back to the whole anonymity thing the thing that i actually worry about the most isn't even you know how my feelings are going to get hurt because who cares like i'm i'm a public figure i need to have thicker skin and it shouldn't bother me i worry about like if i if i meet someone i'm interested in and i'm dating him and then all of a sudden he decides first of all if i meet someone i'm interested in and i tell him what i do he's gonna google me like that's the world we live in at this point right he's gonna

google me and he's gonna read the some like the hideous shit that people say about me and then is that going to influence his opinion of me like i I worry about that kind of stuff more than. That's hilarious. Do you really? I do. I mean, there, I mean. That would be the last thing that I would worry about. That's the very last thing that I would worry about is meeting someone and having them be an influence by a Google search. That's literally the last thing that I would worry about.

I've been on the show since I was 20. And you want to know how many stupid things I've said on that show since I was 20? Many. That's normal. It is normal. Anybody that pretends it's not, like, again,

you're just weeding out assholes. Anybody that pretends it's not normal to say something stupid when you're 20 and you're on a show that permanently records it, my God,

if I ever got permanently recorded when I was 20, oh, I'd be in jail for hate crimes just for my words. I was a retarded person when I was 20, I'd be in jail for hate crimes just for my words. I was a retarded person when I was 20. I was too. I think most people are fools when they're 20.

Of course. You're basically a child. Definitely. You know? Definitely. There's no way that you should be held accountable, responsible. Anybody should ever stick it in your face, things that you did when you were much younger. Yeah.

It's silly. I agree. But it'll happen. I'm sure it will. Yeah, but you're just going to weed out a dummy that you didn't want in your life anyway Yeah, I agree. But it'll happen. I'm sure it will. But you're just going to weed out a dummy that you didn't want in your life anyway. You're right. That's a good way of looking at it.

It's the best way of looking at it. You know who you are. If that guy can't figure that out, fuck him. Yeah. Look at me. I'm like the new Oprah for women. I'm already the Oprah for men. Giving out advice.

Teaching people how to fuck their relationships up royally. Oh, God. Do what you gotta do. Yeah. Yeah, it's gotta be hard being a chick trying to meet a dude out there in the wonderful world

and also being like a public figure. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It is. But whatever. I think you're right. You know, you do weed out the assholes and you just, you can weed out the assholes. And you just, you can't take yourself too seriously.

Well, you can't date a regular dude either. You got a real problem. What do you mean? Yeah, yeah, I can. You're a little on the smart side, let's be honest. A little on the educated, a little on the articulate side. That's a little intimidating for guys. And we're like, you know what?

I'm not going to get shut down by this one. I'm just going to pass. I'm not even going to try. Do you get a lot of that where guys are even trying it? No. Really? I think a lot of dudes probably go, you know what? This is never going to happen. Really? And then they just stop talking to you as a result of that. Yeah, some dudes will get intimidated, but that's

good too, right? That sucks. Then you weed out pussies. Does it suck? You want those pussies to come after you? No, no, no. I don't want those pussies. I don't want those pussies to exist. You have No, no, I don't want those pussies. I just, I don't want those pussies to exist. Like, you have nothing to be shy or intimidated about. Yeah, whatever. Every person can teach you something new, right? Every person that you date, yeah, they can teach you how you can get stalked now. No, but I will say that when you said you can't date a regular person, I thought, like, you have to date another public figure, which I'm not interested in. No, no, no, that's not what I meant. You have to date a regular person, I thought you have to date another public figure, which I'm not interested in.

No, no, no. That's not what I meant. No, no. You have to date a bad motherfucker. You've got to date some dude who's really smart. Definitely. I'm definitely turned on by intelligence. Too much work. Chicks like you are too much work. No, I'm not. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Totally kidding. That's just a rude thing to say.

I'm super laid back and low maintenance. I actually am. I'm not that bad. I wouldn't think you were high maintenance. But I would think that a woman who's a public, in all seriousness, that I would think that a woman who's a public figure, a woman who's very articulate and intelligent and makes a living off of her opinions, that's intimidating for a lot of dudes.

Especially people that are not good at expressing themselves. What is the big thing with relationships? It's the weird sort of expression dance that you do with each other. You know, how does she express when she's angry? How do you express when you're angry? Who does it kindly? Who's passive aggressive? Yeah.

Who's intelligent when it comes to arguments? Dudes don't want to have an argument with you. That's fucking rough action. You argue on the internet. I haven't had an argument with a guy in a while. Exactly're scared bunch of bitches no i wouldn't say that i haven't put myself out there that much to be honest with you so i don't have too much experience with that um i was in a really long-term relationship and then now i've just started dating um that's where the 70s music comes in now i started dating and then the dude at home hears this he goes

no don't say that trust me he's crying no he's not yes he is no he's he's a good guy on the inside trust me they all do me included we all cry on the inside okay we'll go have fun i'm done with this relationship. No. No. Okay, okay. Funny thing is, I'm 100% certain he's going to listen to this. I'm sorry, dude. We're just fucking around, man. I know, I know.

Just fucking around. But I will say, I live in the gayest area of Los Angeles, which means it's impossible to meet guys near me. And you're right. I don't know what to expect. I love that we're playing porn music right now. Yeah, that's Jamie. Yeah.

I don't know. I'm just having fun. So you're having a problem in your neighborhood meeting guys? Yeah. Well, I live in a gay neighborhood. Do you ever meet guys who pretend they're not gay? Like, yeah, I'm just trying to pick up chicks. Yes, I have.

But meanwhile, they're really gay, and they just don't want to grab it. Okay, so my best friend and I talk about this all the time. I've been on a few dates with guys that I'm 100% certain are gay. And it's like, why are you trying to ruin my life right now? Like, what do you think is going to happen? Like, you think I'm not going to figure it out and I'm going to end up like dating you long term and then you're going to destroy my life. No, you're gay. I can totally tell.

How can you tell? You can just tell by the things. And I'm not, look, I'm not trying to push stereotypes, but when you're with a straight guy, you just know. Like there's certain body language that indicates or implies that he's like aroused or he's into you. You know what I mean? Like physically into you. When you're like if i was a douchebag guy the way the douchebag guy translation of that is if you meet a girl and she's not turned on by you she's a fucking lesbian no i know because you're saying that if he's not

aroused by you he's gotta be gay no no that's the only way that is what it sounds like i know i know that is what it sounds like that's not what i know. That is what it sounds like. That's not what I mean at all. It's just, it's hard to explain unless you're sitting there on that date with me. Is it like when you talk to a black guy on the phone and even if he's super educated, you still know he's black? You're terrible. That's real. That's some real shit. I have talked to a lot of black guys on the phone where they were very articulate, very intelligent, very educated, but I knew they were black. That's not a bad thing yeah it's not bad to be black i don't know i don't know what that means like you do how dare you how dare you bullshit me a national internet program such

as this you know i know and everybody listens to this including black people that might pretend to be offended you know what the fuck i'm saying listen to me there's zero wrong with being black absolutely nothing i am the least racist person you will ever meet i hope i have zero racism in me so i don't think it's possible to get any less racist however i am a person that likes to look at reality i think it's interesting to find what people do and don't get offended at and telling someone they sound black is not a bad thing. But people sound black. Women and men. I have talked to them on the phone and had wonderful, elaborate conversations that I truly enjoyed.

But I knew I was talking to a black person. But why? Because of their voice? No, the way they express themselves. Interesting. The way their language is used. The way they, the tonal quality. The way they express themselves. Interesting. The way their language is used, the way they, the tonal quality, the way they speak. There's a certain way that black people speak that's slightly different.

White people can speak like black people. I have been confused that way. Yeah. Where I talked to a dude and he was a wigger and I thought I'm talking to a black guy. And it turned out that I was just talking to a white guy that really wishes he was black. Uh-huh. Supernormal. Yeah. That happens a lot. Nothing wrong with it. That's happened with a Chinese guy. That was a freak out. Yeah. I was talking to the dude on the phone and then I met him in person and I was like, Oh, he's a Chinese dude. Oh, the fuck. I thought I was talking to a

black guy. It was weird. Yeah. That is interesting. Um, going back to the whole gay thing, because I want to, um, kind of backpedal from what I said because it's disastrous. Look, I'm in a unique position because of where I live. And also I'm in Los Angeles, which means a lot of people, a lot of guys take a lot of pride in the way they look and they are almost proud of being overly feminine in some ways. Like they like the moisturizer and they like the fancy clothing. And so then, in that case, they used to be called metrosexuals. I don't know what the politically correct term is now.

Is that bad? Is metrosexuals all bad? I have no idea. These terms are always changing, man. Like, sometimes you think that it's a totally PC term and all of a sudden someone will, like, send you an angry email. Like, how dare you refer to us as metrosexuals?

But, you know, so i could be absolutely wrong and by the way i have been known at work for having terrible gaydar so maybe i am wrong yeah but but there's just it's freaking tough out there i don't know i see what's going on i'll spell it out for you you're a hot chick if dudes don't move you say they gotta be gay no that's that simple that's not what i'm saying it's super simple i I'm saying at all. It's super simple. You're probably correct, too. And I'm not a super hot chick, so it doesn't matter. Stop. How dare you? But that does happen.

There is a lot of gay dudes who try to pretend to be straight. I think for society or for what have you, they just keep it together as long as they can, and then the fucking wheels fly off. And there was a guy that I used to work out with at this gym. This guy used to work out at this gym, this guy used to work out at this gym and he would talk about girls and the way, the best way I could describe it is if I was speaking to you,

if you were French and I was saying the correct words, but I had no idea what the fuck they meant. If I'm like, Jean-Mathieu, but obviously I don't know what the fuck I'm saying. It's just off, you know? Yes, it reminds me of the 40 yearold virgin and how he was describing having sex.

Do you remember that scene? I didn't see that movie. I never saw that movie. Oh, it was so funny. He was like, oh, yeah, I remember when I touched her breasts and they felt like sandbags. And it was just so obvious that he had never had sex before. Sandbags. I love it.

The guy that I was talking to just started talking about this interaction that he had never had sex before. Same facts. I love it. The guy that I was talking to just started talking about this interaction that he had with a woman in a nightclub. And now this girl just came up to him and just started kissing him and making out with him. And it was like, the way he was saying it, it was like the worst fake storytelling you could imagine. It was like he was doing a sketch. Yeah, yeah.

But he was a beautiful man. Like, beautiful. Like, big, tall, perfect bone structure. Just handsome. And he had this girlfriend that just always had this perplexed look on her face. Like, just looked like an explosion just went off like 30 seconds ago. And she was trying to figure out what the fuck happened. Like, that's how she would go everywhere.

Because she was like, he was, like, she was batting way over her head with him. He was at 10 and she was probably in the six or seven range and she was a little on the overweight side. It was a, there was a, it was a clear mismatch and it was just a gay guy who had this girlfriend, but he was gay. I have, um, I can't believe I'm going to share this on the show. My friends think it's so silly, but I have something called the mediocre guy theory. Um, and the mediocre guy theory is do not date a guy who's overly attractive you're just asking for trouble because guys already have like this crazy confidence even if they're not very like they can't even if they're not the

most attractive guy in the world usually they're they're usually pretty confident let me just point out first of all you're armenian yes and armenian dudes are fucking savages in what way they're usually pretty confident. Let me just point out, first of all, you're Armenian. Yes. And Armenian dudes are fucking savages. In what way? They're the most aggressive guys on the planet. Yeah. Armenian dudes, we have a lot of Armenian fighters in the UFC.

Uh-huh. And they're fucking animals. Yeah, I don't date Armenian guys. Savages. Yeah. Those dudes are men. Those are wild men with hairy chests who will punch you in the face. Yeah.

They're fucking crazy. Yeah. Glendale! Yes, yes. Do you know how many people have asked me? If you're from Glendale? Yeah. I've never lived in Glendale.

I've only been in Glendale like a few times. I'm the most Americanized Armenian. It would be nice to meet an Armenian guy who's as Americanized as I am, but most of them are very traditional, which means we're going to butt heads and I just don't. They're going to have to wear that gold chain, that cross. Yeah, I don't play that game. I don't play that game. Wear the cross for Jesus.

Come on. So your mediocre guy theory is? Yeah, so don't go after a guy who's extremely attractive because he's going to get it. First of all, he's going to be constantly told that he's attractive. He's going to constantly get attention from other women. I don't want to play that game. Like, I just don't want to deal with that you know what I mean? like what you just said right now about the guy

who's out of her league right? let's say best case scenario he's not gay and it's a straight couple or whatever right? but like you don't want to feel like the guy you're dating is prettier than you wow you really would ever worry

about that would you ever really ever think that a guy would be prettier a man is as as faithful as his opportunities okay that's a chris rock joke it's not a joke it's might have been his joke but it's actually true yeah yeah like if a guy is really attractive and he's constantly getting like bombed on yeah like women throwing themselves at him, then he's going to cheat on you. There's no question. So you're better off shooting for the middle. Yeah. Well, the middle looks wise.

Yeah. So you got a specific thing. Looks are nice. And by the way, I'm just talking bullshit. Right. I've dated really hot guys before. I believe it. And whatever. But what matters

to me most is, like, the chemistry, and I'm talking about intellectual chemistry, physical chemistry, like, there's gotta be that connection. Of course. If that doesn't exist, then I don't give a shit how good you look. Somehow or another, this has turned into the longest episode of The Dating Show ever.

I know! Sorry about that. No, those shows were great. They don't do those anymore. You never have dating shows now because of stalking issues, I think. Remember they used to have those, the dating game, and people would be wearing those weird suits with the fucking bell bottoms, and they'd tell what they would do. Bachelor number one,

if I met you and I was on a beach looking for shells, and you wanted to get my attention, what would you say to me? Is that your clam that I just saw? Yeah, those don't exist anymore. No, I don't think they can. I think there's too many legal issues. Yeah, they were super cheesy anyway.

Do you find that you meet guys inside and like dating like other reporters or journalists or people in that world um yeah i mean there have definitely been some people i've run into where i'm like oh my god you know he's super smart he's a good looking guy like we should probably go on a date except he's gay no no that's not not the case. I just, I feel weird. I feel weird dating someone that I work with or someone that I'm going to run into often with my career because I don't want to burn, burn bridges. It might end disastrously. So I just don't want to do that. And plus on top of that, I'm, I'm more interested in dating someone who has a completely different

career than mine because I want to learn something from someone I'm dating. We're very lucky Brian Redband's not here right now because he would be fucking throwing himself at you. Normal dude is here. He'd be like, we're different. We're different. I'm a comedian. We're totally different.

Do you worry at all that with the stuff that you're doing that there will be repercussions? Do you ever think like when the Michael Hastings thing went down, did you guys freak out a little bit? Of course. What did you think happened there? For folks who don't know, tell the story of what Michael Hastings did

and then what happened to him. Yeah, so Michael Hastings was one of the few real journalists left in the US. He was one of the few journalists who actually gave a shit about holding politicians accountable for their actions. And he was so driven. He was

one of the most driven people that I've ever met in my entire life. He made me feel like shit about my career on a regular basis because he was so inspiring and so just hardworking and determined, you know? So he broke the story about General Stanley McChrystal. Basically, long story short, Stanley McChrystal was saying some crazy shit about Obama, basically criticizing him behind closed doors. Michael Hastings wrote a Rolling Stone piece about it, and the Obama administration forced McChrystal to resign. So that was a really big story.

Michael Hastings won awards for it, and that kind of put him on the map. He wrote many great books books and he was just a great journalist. But the most important thing to keep in mind is he was one of those people who was fearless when it came to holding the government accountable. OK, and you don't see that often. Then all of a sudden, you know, in June of 2013, he gets into this really mysterious car accident at four, I believe, 420 in the morning, 4.30 in the morning around then. And he was speeding in the silver Mercedes and he crashed into a palm tree and the car exploded on impact. And everyone was wondering whether or not this was something that was

basically orchestrated by the government or if this was a real accident. Now, in terms of those rumors and the conspiracy theories, I feel very irresponsible speculating one way or another. I don't know what happened. No one knows what happened. All I do know is I worked closely with him at The Young Turks. He was on our show often. I co-hosted a few episodes with him. And I remember sitting in the makeup chair getting ready to go on air when I found out that he had died in this car accident.

And I've never felt the way I felt in that moment. It was like a ton of bricks had just fallen on me. And I was just tearing up and I couldn't believe it. And so I wanted to do an investigation. We don't have the resources to do a full investigation into this. But there were so many weird, crazy aspects of it that didn't make sense. Like his engine being tossed so far away from his car, the fact that the car exploded. I contacted Mercedes-Benz. They refused to answer any questions. And I asked them, I'm

like, look, don't comment on the Michael Hastings story. Comment on what happens in your crash tests. Is this typical of a crash? And they would not answer any questions. I tracked down the one witness that saw the entire accident from beginning to end. He was Mexican. He only spoke Spanish. And we got a translator and he told us exactly what he saw. And he said that Michael Hastings was in fact speeding really, really fast. But that doesn't really answer any questions either, because some people are wondering whether or not the government can manipulate his car to make it accelerate to the point where he gets into a crash. I don't know. I've read stories where it's possible, but it's very, very difficult to do. So again, I feel uncomfortable speculating.

But what I do know is his family, including his brother, have said that he was increasingly paranoid leading up to the accident. He was unstable. His brother, have said that he was increasingly paranoid leading up to the accident. He was unstable. His brother was really concerned that he was, you know, abusing drugs, which is why he flew to Los Angeles to help him out. His brother, I think, was the last person to see him prior to the accident. At least that's what he's alleging. And I again, I don't know what happened, but it did have severe ramifications for people who want to be investigative journalists, because if that fear does exist, if that is even a possibility, it's going to deter you from doing real investigative journalism. It's going to deter you from holding the government accountable because you know that the NSA is watching every fucking move. You know that if you're watching the wrong kind of porn or if you're doing something that's a little questionable according to societal morals or norms, then the government can find that and

they can leak that to the public and they can destroy your reputation. Do you as a journalist want to take that risk to do what a journalist is supposed to do. And I think a lot of people out there are unwilling to do it. And I don't blame them. It's scary to know that the government can come after you if they wanted to. That's also if this is what happened. Yeah. And I'm not, and again, I know, I know. I appreciate that you're doing that. Yeah. I think that's really important because we really don't know what happened. I, I looked at it when it first happened. I was pretty freaked out too because I was like, wow. And I thought about it for a minute, and I'm like,

this guy was going after generals. These are people who are professional killers. They've been killing for the government for a long time. They know how to do it really well. They have friends. They can pull favors, and they can make some shit happen. I mean, it is possible. Did it happen?

It's also possible that the dude was doing drugs, and he was going crazy from the trauma of this whole thing about thinking constantly that the government's after you. I mean, that might be just enough to get you to fucking kill yourself. They might not have to do it. They might have to just scare you and freak you out and get you to believe that they're watching every move you make and waiting for their time to lower the boom on you. Yep. And that's basically what I'm referring to. That paranoia alone is crippling. It was crippling for Michael Hastings, and it's crippling for people that I work with that want to do the type of journalism that he did. And that's why I fear for people like Glenn Greenwald. Glenn Greenwald is, in my opinion, a hero. I up to him so much uh... he's the one who broke the edwards snowden story

he's the one who's you know revealing things that american should know about what frustrates me is a lot of americans feel that someone like edwards snowden is a traitor he's not a traitor he's telling you about how your civil liberties are being violated this is the kind of stuff that should make people want to stand up instead of having a discussion about what we should do to stop the government from spying on us, we're having ridiculous conversations about whether or not Edward Snowden can be considered a traitor or an American hero. That is a stupid conversation. Okay, we know the

information now. We know what the government is doing. The government is indiscriminately collecting our metadata, and they are holding this information for a period of time, and they can use it to intimidate you if you're a political activist or if you're a journalist. That intimidation is what cripples our democratic process. So I have a lot of problems with that, and I worry that there aren't going to be many journalists left that will do what Michael Hastings was willing to do. No doubt. And it was a huge price this guy had to pay. I mean, he's living in Russia now, hiding, doing I.T. work, learning how to speak Russian. Most likely, if he lives, he's going to be there for the rest of his life. And what kind of crazy

stress is he under? Can you imagine? He had a hot girlfriend and a cushy job in Hawaii. He left all of that. Yeah. It was a pretty bold move. And the information that's come out has really changed the way people look at the government and how they're handling privacy, how they're handling this idea of the war on terror and what they're willing to do and not willing to do. They're willing to violate everything. They're willing to go against the very principles of privacy. Every principle of the idea that you're sending someone something, you have a password, you log in, they have a password, they log in. You send them an email.

If someone doesn't get in there and breach it, you're thinking that what's going on here is a completely private conversation. But no, the government gets to look at it. Not only that, but some fucking employee that they kept going on and on about how he never graduated high school. Remember that? Remember they were shitting on him and trying to demean him by saying that he never graduated high school? Then why did you give him access to our private information? Why'd you hire him?

That's unbelievable. The best guy you could get, a guy who didn't graduate high school? That seems crazy. And the worst part about it is, I mean, we have so many private contractors that have access to our private information. It's fascinating. Yeah. It's a fascinating time. And I think that we're moving closer and closer to some strange point in the future where the idea of privacy is a thing of the past. It's non-existent. I think that's going to happen. I don't think you can avoid that. I think that is, whether it's a decade from now or two or three or whatever it is, I think there's going to come a point in time where the boundaries between people and information no longer exist. So what people worry about most is like, let's say you're not a politician, you're just a political activist. You might be worried that the government might use some information about you to intimidate you and cause you to not be politically active anymore. So it could be something like nude all of our dirty laundry is just going to be out there and everyone's going to be like, oh, all right,

whatever, you know, because you're going to be forced to. There's going to be so much crap out there about everyone that you're just going to have to deal with it. Well, that's going to be the future, right? That's like if it's one generation from now or two generations, whatever it is, those people are going to have no privacy from birth to death. I know. I mean, we're willingly putting our crap out there as it is with social media. Once again, I think it's a trend. I think it's just like the technology trend. I think we're moving in a certain direction, and there's no way you're going to stop it. It's not like a cultural thing, like different types of marriages or different types of, you know, tribal government.

It's not like that. Like, it's way bigger than that. And it seems to have a momentum all of its own. Yeah. And the momentum of information is the ability to exchange it and share it gets quicker and easier. It does. Constantly through time. It does.

So you have, you know, you have two kids. How do you plan on talking to them about social media? Because I always wonder about that. There are so many parents who like willingly put so much information about their babies online, which I find fascinating. You know, what kind of conversation do you think you're going to have with your kids when it comes to oversharing online? Because I think that's an important conversation to have. It's definitely important to let them know that what they're doing can be seen by virtually every human being that exists. It's at that point. If you put something on a Facebook

page, essentially, I mean, whether or not you get 14,000 hits or 14 billion, it's really the same thing. Anybody that gets to that spot can get there. And you've got to realize that. Once you let it out there, that's just this new weird connection where anyone can look at your pictures. And if they're on Facebook, they can comment and they can say weird shit. They can be lecherous. They can be strange. That's the reality of the world we live in now. I think you definitely, especially for girls, you definitely want to be

very careful about what you share and what you don't share. I mean, how many times you go to someone's Twitter page, they send you a tweet and you go, let me just read their tweets. Sometimes people say something interesting and I'll go read their timeline. Oh, let's look at their pictures. Oh, there's her tits. It's amazing.

Not even a porn star. Girls just holding their tits out, smiling. Welcome to the internet. I just don't. Welcome to the internet. I don't get it. I don't know if that's like a societal pressure that they're caving into or if it's just stupidity. Maybe they just really like dick and they just want it coming in on a daily basis. It's a lot of shipments.

Oh, my God. And the best way is just to show them what you got. I don't know. I deal with way too much, like, crap online to put myself out there like that. There's no way in hell I would. I talk about this a lot. Every time we do a story about some teenager who sexted a picture of herself and then it got leaked online. I'm like, don't take naked pictures of yourself.

Just don't fucking do it. Don't do it under any circumstance. I have a strict rule about that. Or do it. Fuck it. What are you worried about? No, don't do it. Don't worry I have a strict rule about that. Or do it. Fuck it. What are you worried about? No, don't do it. Don't worry about that either.

I agree with you. If you're comfortable with people sharing your naked picture, because you send a naked picture to a guy. It's over. It is over. He's going to show it to his friends, and then he might put it online, and he's going to destroy your life. And the thing is, we still live in that puritanical society where if that naked picture surfaces at work, you could lose your job as a result of that. That's ridiculous.

Yeah. Did you hear about the guy who lost his job because he was Mr. T for Halloween? No. He was in Toronto. I did not hear about that. He was Mr. T, and I was like,

this country's going crazy. And people were like, that's not even this country. I get it. I know. It's an expression. Yeah, he put on blackface when they fired him. He was a teacher.

He was trying to be Mr. T. How could he be Mr. T without blackface? Are you really saying this? Is there something wrong with that? He's wearing a fucking outfit. It's not like he's putting on a minstrel show and singing mammy and got big fake lips. That's not what he's doing.

I know, but look, Canada might be a little different, but blackface has a really dark history, especially in the United States. You think if you play Mr. T and you wear blackface, it's bad? I don't think you should fire. I do think it's bad. I don't think you should get fired. I don't think, oh my God.

I don't think you should get fired, but it's offensive. It's offensive. It's offensive for a Halloween costume? Yep, I think it is. That's hilarious. What if offensive for a Halloween costume? I think it is. That's hilarious. What if you wear a red face? And if you want to be an Indian?

Can you do that? Is that offensive? That's pretty offensive, too. Okay, what about yellow face? That's pretty offensive, too. Why can't you be Mr. T without the black face? People are going to get that you're Mr. T. That's fucking ridiculous, though.

Okay, what about Soul Man? That movie where the guy wore black face through the whole movie? Remember that guy? I don't even know that movie. Oh, what about Soul Man? That movie where the guy wore blackface through the whole movie? Remember that guy? I don't even know that movie. Oh, how dare you? It was an old movie. C. Thomas Howell. Yeah, C. Thomas Howell.

Do you remember that guy? Nope. See, he was before your time. C. Thomas Howell was one of those guys who was like this major league movie star, did a lot of big movies, and then just stopped doing them. He was in, like, he was way back in like the... Side Out. What's that? Side Out. What's Side Out? The volleyball movie he's in. How was way back in like the side out what's that side out so what's side out

volleyball movie he's in how the fuck do you remember that how dare you but soul man uh he was he was in the the outsiders or what was the one with johnny depp and all those was it the outsiders uh and uh he played a guy who uh wore a black face and pretended to be a black guy for something, like to get in college or something like that. And, I mean, through the whole movie, he wore a black face. So you think that's – there he is. He's black. Isn't that hilarious?

Yeah. He's a black guy in school in black face. This was like in the 1980s. Look at this. He's got a Jericho wig on. That's insane. I don't know. Is that offensive?

The standard is probably a little different in's insane. I don't know. Is that offensive? The standard is probably a little different in movies, but I don't know. Movies are more real than Halloween. Is that what you're saying? No, movies are not more real than Halloween. Look, I think that given the history of blackface and given how offensive it is to the black community, why go there?

Why? I don't understand the value of it. Okay, so you want to look even more like Mr. T or whatever. It's fine. You can do it without doing the blackface. Given our history and given how offensive it is, just move forward. That's hilarious. I couldn't disagree more.

I think it's just an outfit. I think if you're really pretending that if you're a completely non-racist guy and you put some paint on that makes you look more like an African American that somehow you're doing something offensive, I think that's silly. I think the idea of a white person pretending to be a black person is just as weird as the idea of a

black person pretending to be a white person, but who gives a shit? If a black guy puts white face on and does that thing that Dave Chappelle used to do in a show where he pretended to be a white man reading the news, you know, with white paint on, nobody gave a fuck. Yeah, well, white people were not made fun of and discriminated against and freaking lynched and murdered. Did you see Pineapple Express? Is that what it is?

Tropic Thunder. Tropic Thunder with Robert Downey Jr. where he wears black face through the whole movie? I did not see that. Fucking beautiful movie. What do you mean? He played a black guy in the entire movie. Look, that's a really interesting argument, and I might reconsider my thoughts on it.

But based on where I stand now, I just feel like, look, I feel really uncomfortable with it. Just because how society would make fun of black people by making white actors put the black face on and, you know, mimic them and make them seem like they were morons and they were less than. It just has such a dark history. So if people find it offensive, I'm definitely empathetic toward that. So Al Jolson basically fucked up Halloween. That's what you're saying. Definitely. With all that stupid black

face and racist bullshit. I think if you're racist, you're racist. And I think if you're not racist, then there's nothing wrong with pretending to be a black person. If you're going to be it for Halloween. It's one thing if you're like mocking black people in general, that's offensive, but you're a guy.

A specific guy. You're Mr. T. You got gold chains on. It's Halloween. Dude, there's Dave Chappelle pretending to be a white guy. That's real racism right there. Yeah. By the way, he doesn't look white at all.

He doesn't. That was terrible. Just as bad as see Thomas Howell pretend to be black. Equally confusing. That's funny. I don't know. I see your point, though, and I appreciate it. Equally confusing. That's funny. I don't know. I see your point, though, and I appreciate it.

I appreciate where you're coming from. It's like, why do it? It's not worth it. And it's not worth it. I mean, I wouldn't want to be Mr. T for Halloween. Yeah. And I see your point where it's different in a movie, I guess. But I don't think, it wouldn't bother me if one of my friends was Mr. T.

I wouldn't be like, man, you're fucking racist, bro. You have makeup on. You're racist. There was a story about these two women in England or two girls in England, and they were dressed as the World Trade Center on fire after the attack. Oh, I saw that. And they had people, like little fake people, jumping out of the costume. And to add insult to injury uh they were part of this costume

contest and they won they won best contest or bit i'm sorry best costume so like what amazes me is how little people think these things through before they do it you see what i'm saying like i mean there are some things that you just do not mess with. And that's a perfect example of something you don't mess with, especially considering that there are family members that lost people as a result of those attacks, family members who saw their own family members jumping off those buildings. And then you have these two dumbasses wearing the stupid costume, kind of making fun of that situation. It's just there's some things you don't mess with. And that's that's a perfect example of it. Well, I think it's another example of really dumb people getting together and convincing

each other that everything's going to be cool. Yeah. Like, oh my God, it's such a great idea, isn't it? Look, I have fire. But apparently- Oh my God, amazing. In their little bubble, it was a great idea because they won. Yeah, you could pull that off if you lived in a small town in Alaska before the internet.

Yeah. You know, when people in Alaska before the internet. Yeah. You know, when people didn't know any better. True. But now, especially if that picture goes on Facebook or something like that, oh, prepare yourself, ma'am, for the avalanche of hate. Asiana Airlines pilot costume may be most offensive of 2013. Who is that? I don't know this story. The pilots that crashed?

The pilots? That plane that crashed in San Francisco a couple months ago. What was their... Oh. Oh, they dressed as the pilots? They dressed as the pilots. I don't understand. They put blood on their face, and they were just dressed as pilots. Oh, God.

Very tasteless. I'll just bring that up. Oh, okay. Oh, God. I just don't... Why? Why are people so dumb? People are dumb.

They're just dumb. They want to be shocking, too. They want to be paid attention to. And if you go as, like, the Hulk, no one's going to give a fuck. Yeah. You know, there's a million of those out there. But if you go as this, people go, oh, my God, what are you doing? And then they pay attention to you.

That's what it is. Yep. They just want to get a little shock, just get a little rise out of people. Yeah, it's true. Juliana Huff, who was one of the Dancing with the Stars performers or whatever, she dressed in blackface. And I feel like you should hold public figures to a higher standard because I think you're more aware of this kind of shit,

like more aware of the kind of criticism you're going to get. You know what I mean? Like you're putting yourself out there. People are going to get. You know what I mean? Like you're, you're putting yourself out there. People are going to see you. And, and so I, I almost feel as though. What is she supposed to be? She's supposed to be one of the characters from Orange is the New Black. I forget the character's name. Um, and she doesn't really look black. She looks more bronze than any, like she looks like she got a really bad fake tan. She went to West Hollywood and got a spray tan. Yeah, one of them real ones.

Yeah. And so she was like, what? Oh my God, I had no idea. I apologize. She had this apology. And that I felt like was a little bit of a publicity stunt. That's my speculation. Yeah, probably most likely.

Well, a lot of people are just dumb. And that's not as dark as one of, one of those bodybuilder women. When they get that spray tan stuff, like, they get really, really dark. Are you into that? Oh, yeah. You are? No. Does it turn you on?

I'm not into girls that would potentially kick my ass. Yeah. Or be more manly than me. Yeah. My favorite discussions on this show usually center around like the appropriate way a female body part should look. I don't remember who your guest was, but you guys were talking about the appropriate look of a vagina.

I guarantee you I know it was Jim Norton. It was Jim Norton. Yeah, the dirty bastard. Yeah. And that was after I was confirmed to come on your show. And I remember talking to my friend, Christian, who loves your show, by the way, Christian Lopez. He wanted me to say hi.

Oh, what's up, dude? So there you go. And I was like, what the fuck did I just get myself into right now? Sorry. We give out a bad impression. No, not at all. You're totally fine. I'm like.

But we do. We do give out a bad impression. If you wanted to cherry pick shit out of our past, you know, things that we've done on this show, yeah, I could look a little sketch. Yeah? Yeah. Well, I mean, that's true if you cherry pick, but people like to compare you to Howard Stern. I actually don't think you're like Howard Stern at all. I think that you're a little more intelligent.

Howard Stern's a brilliant man. He is a brilliant man. Don't get it wrong. Yeah, he is. I think that the topics you choose to talk about are a little more intelligent. Well, you know, he does a lot of pop culture stuff. Yeah, he does. He interviews a lot of artists, and he's really good at getting them to talk and say things maybe ordinarily that they wouldn't.

But, you know, I mean, I think he's also got a much larger audience. Yeah. And there's also a bunch of people behind him that probably would kind of, like, want him to talk about certain subjects. But I have, you know, we started this out just on the laptop and I don't really give a fuck what other people are interested in. I give a fuck what I'm interested in. And this whole thing started out just for fun. So if I, like yesterday I had a real Astrodon on, I mean, I had that dude who was on the,

did he leave a book? No, he didn't. He sent it to us. He was on the, did he leave a book? No, he didn't. He sent it to us. He was on the space station for 166 days. It was really fucking interesting stuff. Yeah. It was fascinating. Chris Hadfield.

He's awesome. That was like a real honor. Like that to me is like, that's the kind of people that I want to talk to. I just want to talk to fascinating people. Or Chris Ryan, the guy who we were looking at his photo before. Yeah. I love Chris Ryan. He's great. He's been on our show several times and he's just really interesting. I love his openness about sexuality and, you know, what humans are actually, you know, physically driven to do, biologically driven to do. And it's very different from societal norms and expectations. So there's

always that conflict there. Or just a stand-up comedian or just an MMA fighter or just a friend. I mean, I've had just friends on. I think too many people are out there trying to get the attention of people by having people on that are famous or having people on that are pop culture. And they're interesting to tap into sometimes and find out what makes them tick. But for me, I want to talk to Neil deGrasse Tyson. I want to talk to Sam Harris. I want to talk to brilliant people.

I want to talk to people and pick their brain, people that I don't normally hear on the radio or don't normally hear interviewed on television shows. Yeah, and going back to the discussion we had on new media, that's what millennials respond to better. They like the interviews with real people or brilliant people who are trying to make a difference in the world. They like that way more than, you know, the celebrity bullshit.

I think the celebrity stuff's fun, too. It's fun. It's fun, but it's snacks. Yeah. I mean, I think millennials will take that for what it's worth, but they're more interested in change. I,

and that, and that's the reason why most of them voted for Obama because he kept preaching change, even though we didn't really get any of it. Yeah. Um, so, but like,

like with Stern interviews, like Corey Feldman, I'm going to listen to that. You know what I mean? Like I'm going to hear, I'm there for the train wreck. Oh, I remember very recently Howard Stern interviewed Sharon Osbourne, one person that I couldn't possibly care less about. And it was such a fascinating interview. And I was like, that's the magic of Howard Stern.

He can make any interview interesting because he will ask inappropriate questions. Yeah, he digs into your psyche. Someone like Sharon Osbourne. Yeah. You know, married to Ozzy Osbourne. What the fuck is going on there? I don't know. Yeah. Madness, craziness. That is madness and craziness. Yeah. The idea of having a podcast is, I mean, I never really thought that I would ever have a radio show because I always kind of figured like, no, I always enjoyed going on morning radio and I always enjoyed it when I would go and do stand up. I would come in early to promote and you do radio like back in the days for the Internet. That's how you sold tickets. And I always had a good time on the air and said, wow, it'd be cool to have a radio show.

But then I was like, you know, the fuck's going to give me a radio job and that's not going to happen. And on top of that, they're going to tell me i can't swear and that shit's gonna get tired and then satellite radio came along and i started doing the opie and anthony show a lot and uh those guys are are great and they're the way they have it set up is a lot like this show where it's just a conversation yeah they don't have like a specific agenda they don't have games they want to play all right anna it's time to play what would you rather do you know they don't have a specific agenda they don't have games they want to play alright Anna it's time to play what would you rather do they don't have that kind of stupid shit

it's just a conversation just a hang that's really what fueled getting this thing started so you have a three hour long show do you ever have a difficult time holding my bladder yes that's a good question but on top of that

um it's really difficult to find guests that are willing to have a three hour long conversation yeah well yes and no you know we don't have a hard time finding guests but um yeah some people are just not it's not right for them some people don't want to talk for three hours because if you talk for three hours long enough, people are going to find out who the fuck you really are. Yep, that's true. It just takes time. They're going to find out what tweaks you or what you like, what you don't like, what's

weird about you. They get to know you very, very deeply. Do you think your audience has a good sense of my weird characteristics? Yeah, you're weird bitch. Super weird, right? It's alright though. It's good. You're a nice person. That's all that matters.'re a nice person that's all that matters being a nice person the weird thing is like who the fuck's not weird you know everyone's weird everyone's got their like little habits and stuff i was talking to my friend about how important it

is to be open-minded especially at this point in our lives like when we're you know willing to meet new people and make new friends and all that other stuff. And like, you come across people that have certain habits that are just strange. And when I was younger, I'd be like, ugh, like, I just don't, I don't want anything to do with this person. And now I love this. I love that I've grown into this person where, where, where I will step back. I'll realize that something's weird and it'll make me uncomfortable. I'll ask why it makes me uncomfortable. And I'll be like, all right, that's fine. It's not something that's going to hurt me or damage me. So live with it.

It doesn't bother me. Like if you're out with people and they're holding hands and you're like, so what's your deal? And they're like, oh, we're swingers. We like to go to a swing club. Fuck it. I mean, if you're swingers, I don't want to join you guys. No one does, by the way.

You do you. Yeah. They're always disgusting humans i don't know i've actually never met swingers i met two swingers in my whole life they were like out now telling me they were swingers like introduced themselves as swingers one of them ari and i were in nashville we were doing stand-up and this guy was uh driving us around for two days and uh he was a limo driver and it did it was just like yes sir no sir And then finally he's dropping us off at the airport, and the dude just opens up the floodgates

and just starts talking about swinging and what he does and what he likes to do. I don't really like to watch my wife get fucked, but sometimes she likes watching me have sex. Wow. If I don't feel comfortable about a guy, I can tell her no. We were like, what? Like, how do you – what?

I wonder what kind of guys he's uncomfortable with. Big ones, probably. And yeah, he's probably a fan of the mediocre guy theory. Absolutely. Yeah, you don't want to let your girlfriend get gorilla fucked by some giant lineman in front of you. You know, that would be horrendous. Yeah. That's the last thing you want.

So he can like give the red light. He would save himself for a guy who's coughing you know someone a man with a limp you know take him honey i don't want him he'll show you a good time good looking guy honey yeah just try to find some guy who's like less endowed than you yeah virile than you yeah that's understandable though you don't want to deal with that competition i guess yeah it's sad um we had a conversation about like furries on the show before oh yeah and so i don't see anything i mean i i don't prefer furries don't get me wrong but like whatever they like to dress up as animals when they're having

sex like i don't care if that doesn't bother like if i found out someone i'm hanging out with is into that then i would just be like all right you, you're into that. It's totally fine. Really? So if you were dating a guy and you found out that he was into being a furry and he would go to furry conventions, they'd sniff each other's fake butts and bounce around like squirrels, you'd be like, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. Come on.

You would judge him. I don't. I'm not in that. Okay. I would like to say that I would not judge him. I would judge the shit out of a girl. If I was dating and I met a girl and we're hanging out and she's pretty cool and then she's like, well, there's this one thing that I really like to do.

I like to pretend to be a chipmunk mascot. And I put on my chipmunk mascot outfit on and I go to these conventions in Pittsburgh. We all fly in with our furry outfits on and we dance around together and we pretend to have sex, but no one really penetrates anybody. Yeah. Look, it is what it is. I feel like there are definitely worse fetishes out there. There absolutely are.

Like guys who like to wear diapers and they like to get changed. That kind of stuff scares the hell out of me. How do you even breach that conversation? I don't even know. I don't even know. I don't know how. I give them like furries, for instance. I give them props because how do you find someone who's willing to deal with your fetish? Well, I think there's something in being willing to deal with almost anything that's like extra attractive. You have to be open minded. Yeah.

Well, when people start dating each other, this is my thing, my thinking on it, is that when people start dating each other, if someone really wants someone to be a part of their life, they might want to do something really weird with them to show them that I do not care. I'll do anything. I'll change your diaper. I'll wipe

your butt. Oh my God. I remember a dude that I know, he would take... We were at a fight. It was backstage. My, my friend was warming up in the green room and this dude went into the bathroom with his girlfriend and took a shit like in front of her. This is like little bathroom together. And I go, did you just take a shit in front of her? Really? Cause I went in there afterwards. It was, he wrecked the bathroom. But why but i asked him i go i go what's that about he goes we do everything together man we do everything together no that's not healthy that's

not healthy though but that's that's how can you say it's not and you can say wear a fucking furry outfit is no but that there's like a codependency issue there that's not healthy if you have to do everything together that would be my nightmare my goal in life is to find a guy that is comfortable with me living my life and not. Just use right now writing on Twitter. I am comfortable with you living your life. I feel like sometimes like my issue is I'm too like wrapped up in my career bubble. And I'm really attracted to like independent guys that don't want a girl who's like always on him. Like guys, guys pretend like they don't like that, but they do.

They want a girl who's all about him all the time. And I'm just not that kind of person. Especially if you have your own career. Yeah. That's too inconvenient. I love it. Is it, is it inconvenient? Some people.

I love like independent, strong people. That's the biggest turn on to me. Not me. I like them weak, dependent. A lot of people do. I like that. I like when people get sick a lot. I like when people need you to get them soup.

A lot of people do like that. Yeah, I guess they do. Codependency is a real issue. Yeah. Well, people want, I mean, isn't that really the mediocre guy theory that you want to make sure it doesn't go anywhere no sort of similar and by the way I don't even have a way just to be completely crystal clear my mediocre guy theory is a little bit of a joke like I understand like obviously I don't want a mediocre guy and obviously

I want a guy that I'm physically attracted to but I do believe that a guy is as faithful as his opportunities. Same goes for women, by the way. It's not just men. Those dirty bitches. I can't believe you're saying that. Yeah. Well, you know what? It's especially human beings when they're not like if you're not if you if you haven't found someone that enthralls you or someone that you're like deeply locked in with it's real easy to like lose a relationship but you got a relationship and it's like you know I'm not invest any more time in this and then boom and guys are always worried about the music ending and then being left without a

chair you know like hey you know you're playing musical chairs the music stops there's nowhere to sit down and then then no one wants me. That's that thing, that thing that a lot of people want someone to want them. And if they're dating an independent woman, they realize like this chick, whether she enjoys your company or not, she could do without you, dude, and she's fine. You know, that freaks guys out. A lot of guys, they want some girl who's like waiting by the phone when you call her. Oh my God, I was so happy you called. Should I say that say that you know they love stupid yeah that's such bullshit not buying it for a second no it's true it's the same reason why like people pretend they like to fight

like men like always say like oh if i knew if i was a black belt i'd go to the ufc kick everybody's ass that's that's not what you're you don't understand what you're saying. What you're saying is you would like to beat somebody up, but you don't really actually want to fight because the fighting is fucking brutal and somebody might beat you up. You could lose. It's not guaranteed. It's a risky, wild, the whole thing, the whole proposition is incredibly risky.

So are relationships. Relationships are unbelievably risky. Of course. So a lot of people don't even want to enter in a relationship. They just want to smash it. They just want to go in there and kick somebody's ass. The same way they want to go in there and kick somebody's ass in a fight and not actually be in a fight. They don't want to date some girl who's smart, intelligent, is going to see through my bullshit.

And I can't use all the stuff that I learned in my pickup artist book that I've been reading for the past six months. You're going to see right through that and you're going to pick out the flaws and all my arguments. Fuck that. I'm just looking for a dumb chick with a limp that I could dominate for a short amount of time and then bail. That is a sexy man right there. It's a weak dude, but there's a lot of them.

Yeah. It's because people are scared of failure. I've met some really, like, strong, intelligent, confident men. And I love that. Well, they exist. They exist. They're, like, they're very, very rare, but they exist. And, no, I shouldn't even say they're very, very rare. How do I know?

It's not like I've been dating, like, a billion guys, right? But they exist. And when I say that I like the independence, it doesn't mean like I don't need him. It means this person makes me a better person and I want to make him a better person. We have this strong bond, this strong partnership, but we don't suffocate each other.

I think a lot of relationships are suffocating and I want to avoid that at all costs. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's tough to not be suffocating. And I want to avoid that at all costs. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's tough to not be suffocating sometimes if you're scared and you're clinging on to the last piece of wood you found floating in the ocean after the horrible wreck of the last X amount of years of your life. That's a lot of people. You run into them. You're not just running into a person. You're running into a person that's just getting back on their feet from some whatever fucking disaster, whatever it was, whatever breakup, whatever, you know, home repossession, lost job.

What is the crisis that you just recently survived and just washed up on shore and now you're meeting that person? So you meet someone in their 30s. Oh, my God, you're meeting a lot of shit. You're meeting a lot of shit. It's a lot of years. It's not a bad thing. Some people are better for it, though. I mean, there's the bright side of shit. You're meeting a lot of shit. It's a lot of years. It's not a bad thing. Some people are better for it.

I mean, there's the bright side of it. Some people, because of all those disasters, they develop character and they understand what's good and not good, how they should behave, what are the ramifications of different kinds of behaviors. You find that out. But how many people learn from their mistakes?

Half? Half of them? 50% of the people learn from their mistakes? At least half, I hope. I would hope, but I don't think it's even 40. I think it's probably like 30. That's depressing. The rest of the people are just banging their heads on coconut trees. People are crazy.

They are crazy. I just, I feel like it's better to, look, if you don't meet someone that makes you feel good about yourself and you do the same for them, I feel like it's just better to be alone and live your life and wait. Be an old lady with a lot of cats and a vibrator. Fine. Maybe not the cats. Vibrator, sure. Why not?

Did you see that new Oculus Rift thing that they have? The 3D reality goggles? Uh-huh. They've come up with one now that allows you to have sex. It connects you to some sort of an artificial thing that's like a fleshlight that's moving up and down. No, I know nothing about that, but I have like read stories about robots that they're creating that are very lifelike. So, you know, women will be useless in, you know, 10 years or something when these are perfected in Japan. I'm just, I'm kidding about the women being useless. There'll be for some men,

there'll be something that they won't have the effort to pursue anymore right that's going to be real i've talked i've talked to a guy who cannot wait um who cannot wait for these sex robots to be perfected um so and he's like totally honest about he's like yeah they're so lifelike that you can like have a relationship with a sex robot and it's like i don't I don't even know what my response should be to that. You don't. That worries me. It will always be an empty, hollow relationship. There's always going to be something missing from it.

You're always going to want to have sex with them maybe. Yeah. You know, if they look like super hot and they're robots. But hanging out with them, there's going to come a point in time where you realize that this is just a bunch of circuits. Yeah. Just a bunch of electrical impulses going through a board. Definitely. St staring at you and coming at you with some pre-recorded voice. Yeah. It's going to be weird. People are always going to, part of what people like about people is that we're all in this crazy thing together. Yeah, that's true. And, and, you know, going back

to the necessity of human interaction, in some Asian countries, prostitutes offer something called the girlfriend experience. And they probably do that here in the United States too, but I distinctly remember talking about it in Korea, I believe. And they don't just have sex with the guys. In some cases, they never have sex with the guys. The guys will pay for the girl to be like a girlfriend, where she's like

nurturing and caring and cuddles with him and watches movies with him and stuff like that. And that actually gave me a little bit of faith in humanity because that showed me that there are people out there that just want that, you know, that connection. They want more than that physical, raw interaction. They want something emotional. Yeah, there's always going to be that, but they would like to fuck as well. That's true. The problem is, a lot of times the girlfriend experience is $50, whereas the other thing, if you want to actually have sex,

like $125. So you have to budget, you know, if you're living in Japan, in a tiny apartment. So you're not buying it? No. Really? No. These guys, they're cuddling because they do want to cuddle, but they definitely want to move to the next level. I don't think you're giving guys enough credit. I think that guys, they like to pretend like they don't have any emotional connection or want that emotional connection, but a lot of them want.

Oh yeah. No, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that. Men definitely want an emotional connection with a girlfriend or a wife or a woman in their life. Label it in any way you want, but they also want to fuck. Yeah but if they can't get that if all they can get is cuddling they'll take the cuddling but they would like a little bit more it's just natural yeah why would someone be affectionate with me but not want to please me all the way like why can't i get rid of this throbbing thing you know like that's just a natural. I mean, it's as natural as like, you know, eating one piece of your food and wanting to eat the rest of it. Yeah. It's natural.

It's completely natural. Yeah. So like there was a thing recently where a woman was like making $90 an hour cuddling with people. She was like hiring herself out to cuddle with people. I mean, I couldn't do it, but make money. people. That's, I mean, I couldn't do it, but make money. All I was thinking of like, what a dangerous situation that is for the girl to be with some man holding onto her, like in like very close proximity, like how many guys are just going to start beating off on her back? You know, how many guys are going to be cuddling with her and try to rape her? It's like, I wouldn't trust a guy

to cuddle with them like that. Me as a guy, I wouldn't trust a guy. Yeah. Like we're not cuddling dude. Look, I don't, I don't know a guy. We're not cuddling, dude. Look, I don't know what the legality of that is, but it does go back to the whole prostitution issue and how important it is to legalize and regulate it and create a safe environment for women to do that type of stuff. So you can actually mitigate or minimize those types of instances where a guy will be abusive or do something degrading or demeaning. The worry is also, I mean, always that you're promoting it. And then if you make prostitution legal and the people that go to prostitution that would never go to prostitution before. So what?

What kind of a woman are you? Who are you? I'm a woman with an open mind. You need to get together with those lawyer women and all of you. Sell your vaginas down the river. Just sell them. I just feel like people who want to have relations with a prostitute are going to do it anyway. And if legalizing prostitution

somehow convinces someone who wouldn't otherwise go to a prostitute to go through with it, then okay, like there are worse things in the world. It's just, it's sex. So what, I agree with you. I'm obviously playing devil's advocate,

but what was it that being on the show changed where you had this shift in your attitude about legalized prostitution? I worried about the safety of the women that put themselves in that situation and also the safety of men that put themselves in that situation. Because if you regulate it, you can ensure that these women are getting tested for STDs. You don't want a bunch of people getting AIDS or other sexually transmitted diseases. Pregnant. Pregnant. A regulated industry in this case would be much better than criminalizing it and allowing people to harm themselves or be put in a harmful situation. And on top of that, here's another thing I don't want to do. I don't want to waste our resources on incarcerating people for these so-called sex crimes, because I don't see prostitution as a sex crime. I see it as

normal human behavior. People want sex. Some people, unfortunately, have to pay for sex. But if that transaction has to happen, let it happen. Let it be regulated. Let's get it off the streets and put it in a place that's safer that's just better for society no that's a totally rational way of looking at it yeah and um unfortunately we have this weird attitude when it comes to sexuality and we have this weird attitude when it comes to naked people i mean remember that janet jackson thing we showed a nipple in the super bowl and everybody lost their fucking mind yep i remember it's we're really weird in that way it's okay to give someone a massage you could rub their feet to the cows come home with oil you could rub them they can moan out Yep, I remember. We're really weird in that way. It's okay to give someone a massage.

You could rub their feet till the cows come home with oil. You could rub them. They can moan out loud. Oh, my God, this feels so good. Nobody has a problem with it. Rub my back. Rub my – but don't touch my dick. Whoa, that's a crime.

That's a crime. Even though it would feel fantastic if you did. Can't do it. It's against the books. Do you consider that cheating? Like if you are married and you'd, well, you are married, but like if you were to go to a massage parlor and get that done, would that be considered cheating?

I definitely think it would get you in a lot of trouble. Of course it would get you into a lot of trouble. It seems like someone would not be happy about that. But it would be awesome if they were. If you could just go and, what if they wore wore a mask like one of those Mexican wrestlers? Do you even know what they look like? You go in there with like a wolfman mask on. They could dress like a Mexican wrestler.

You don't even look at each other. You both wear sunglasses. It's just like a massage. In a situation like that, it's really not that different. That's the reason why they do it at a massage parlor. Right. And the real, the guys, guys pro tips guys actually get a massage and then get a happy ending they don't just go right for the happy ending the the legit pros they sit there they have a real massage first how does that conversation how does that conversation come up like how do you find a massage parlor that is willing to do that?

There's websites. There are? Yes. Yes. Fascinating. There's websites that'll tell you where the spots are and, you know, like they'll rate places with stars and detail their handjob experiences. Wow. Yeah.

And of course it doesn't just stop at a handjob. It goes further than that in some cases, right? Allegedly. Mm-hmm. Allegedly. Maybe. Yeah. It's one of those weird things where we've decided that people can do it for free and no one gets hurt yeah but if they do it for money it's illegal and the the the logic behind it is very weird and the the logic behind the laws are you you know, there's morality ideas, there's ethics ideas.

But the reality is that money is going to be changing hands whether you like it or not. And most likely it's not going to get taxed unless it's legal. Yeah. It's just going to move into the economy in some sort of a weird way. But the government in that and also in drug laws, they're fucking themselves out of massive amounts of revenue. Oh, I know. government in that and in and also in drug laws they're fucking themselves out of massive amounts of revenue like the war on drugs is the most colossal fucking failure of a war in the history you guys during the time you're at war the business got bigger it got way huger everywhere

in the world it's a huge part of the economy and the business has become medical in california very 16 other states legal in two states now, now legal in Portland, Maine. It's the worst failure of a war ever. It is. And when you look at the war on drugs, specifically the war on marijuana, very little of it has to do with stopping people from using these drugs. Most of it has to do with paying for correctional officers, paying for private prisons, Paying for correctional officers, paying for private prisons, paying for private contractors, even private contractors abroad who continue to amplify the war on drugs. People are making a ton of money off this prohibition, which is why it continues and it'll never stop. And I love that we're seeing the snowball effect with the legalization of recreational marijuana or recreational use of marijuana. There was recently a small town

in the East Coast that legalized it. I believe it was in Maine. Yes, Portland, Maine. Yeah, it was Portland, Maine. They just legalized it. And it was more of a symbolic thing because, of course, state laws and federal laws will trump whatever municipal laws have been passed. But I love that now politicians are forced to pay attention to the polls and make changes because we're spending untold amounts of money just incarcerating people for simple marijuana possession. It's hideous. It is. And the real problem with the war on drugs being when you have marijuana illegal, it means you're not getting that tax money from it.

Just like you're not getting it from prostitution. The government doesn't get their cut. They're not getting it. It's going to make its way into the economy in some ways. Like in BC, in British Columbia, there's a huge issue because a giant chunk of their economy is based on marijuana, but yet marijuana is illegal. They arrest people, but then let them go. There's like a lot of weird fucking games going on up there.

But because it's illegal, they're not getting their taxes from it. It's a huge issue. They know it's a giant... There was a documentary that I was in called The Union, and it was all about... That's what they call it. They call it The Union. When they talk about all the different marijuana growers in B.C.,

it's like they're a multi-billion dollar part of the economy up there. So it's this weird hypocrisy that's going on where you have this thing that's a huge part of why everybody's doing well. And that thing's illegal and that thing's hurting no one. And by the way, because it's illegal, you're not getting your cut. Do you know about the Schaefer report? What's that? During the, oh, I love this story. I love telling this story. So during the Nixon administration, Nixon wanted to commission a study on marijuana specifically. Do you know about it? I know about the Nixon Report. Yeah, I didn't know it was called the Schaefer Report.

Yeah. So he commissioned, I believe he was a governor at the time. He was a politician with the last name Schaefer, to do the study on marijuana. So Schaefer went ahead and did it. And he found that marijuana had no real long-term negative effects on society or human health or anything like that it just was not a threat to society period nixon the same freaking person who commissioned that report took it ripped it up and said no i'm going to amplify the war on drugs i'm going to continue making this legal illegal i'm going to continue criminalizing people who have simple possession of it. And Nixon, I mean, of course, he did a lot of hideous things.

But that had so many negative ramifications in the country. That's what led to this explosion of the for-profit prison industry. And now that industry, first of all, I don't know why it's called for-profit or private prisons, because they're funded by tax dollars. So how are they private? And on top of that, now we have an incentive to lock people away because these companies make money off of it. It's sick. Yeah. Private prisons are very scary. It's very scary that not only do you have private prisons, but you have private prison lobbies and you have guard lobbies where prison guards make sure that certain things stay illegal so that they can ensure that they have work.

That's slaves. Yeah. You're making slaves. I mean, you want people to be locked up more than not locked up. In my opinion, if it's not robbery or violent crime, those are the two things that I'm worried about. Robbery or violent crime. That's when you need to remove people from society. Everything else should be on some sort of a penalty thing.

Yeah, like a misdemeanor citation, something like that. Some citation. I mean, what is it? What's going on? I mean, what did you not do? Did you not pay your taxes? Why do you get locked up for that? That sounds crazy. Don't you just owe taxes? How about you make them pay? Because when you lock them up, they're not even making any money. Why are you profiting off? How are you doing that? You're locking them up, and that's better than getting money from them while they're working? Well, we're doing the same thing with people who are undocumented immigrants, right? So they'll come into this country.

They're undocumented. We find out they're undocumented. And instead of deporting them, which is what we used to do, we will detain them for X amount of years and spend our resources on imprisoning them, which doesn't make any sense at all. And I get it. Like, okay, we want to punish them and show them, like, you can't do this again. But you punish them by deporting them.

You know what I mean? And that's it. Like, why would you want to incarcerate them and spend tax dollars on that, especially when we're having this huge issue with public education right now. Yeah. It's a weird little fake thing that we have going on where we pretend that L.A. doesn't have 10 million illegal immigrants.

We're just kind of like, well, you know, whatever. Now they're allowed to go to college at least. They are. There was a long time where immigrants were their children of immigrants or immigrants like that came over and their children were born in Mexico, but live their entire lives here in America. They weren't allowed to go to college. I know. So I'm happy that California passed a dream act. It's ridiculous that we haven't been able to do that on a federal level. Absolutely. And disgusting. What is America if it's not a nation of immigrants? I mean, that's all we are. We are a bunch of people that came

here from other places to penalize a baby or to say that, well, you know what? The parents, they brought the kid over here so the kid could sponge off. The kid's a part of the fucking system. Yeah, they call them anchor babies. By the way, the parents are part of the system, too. They're working here. Yeah. I hate the argument that they don't pay taxes.

In a lot of cases, especially in California, I mean, they pay taxes in the form of, first of all, they pay Social Security, but then they never get a dime of that Social Security later, right? So they're contributing to the Social Security system. And on top of that, they're paying for state taxes as well or sales taxes. So they do pay taxes. They do contribute to society. And I'm not trying to make excuses or to justify coming into the country illegally. But if you've been here for decades and you've had your children here, we need to create some sort of comprehensive immigration reform.

And right now we have clowns in office that can't seem to agree on anything and refuse to work with one another. So I feel like it's going to be difficult for that to happen. But I feel like something like the DREAM Act is common sense. It shouldn't even be a political issue. It shouldn't be a partisan issue. You should just do it. Yeah, I completely wholeheartedly agree. And I think there's also this weird thing where we're connected to a third world country by a fence. I mean, we are right next door to the biggest war on drugs in all of the world playing out on our border. And then right across there, you have intense, extreme poverty. If you take a car from San Diego, you can go from La Jolla, where you have the most elegant clifftop mansions

that will blow your mind. Just these great Gatsby houses where like oh my goodness like this fucking giant circular driveway with enormous fountain you're like what a house in 20 minutes you're in tijuana yeah 20 fucking minutes and you might just just get there while these cartel members are dropping off headless bodies and lining them up on the street with signs on them or you know you might see a brothel where you can go fuck some immigrant for a dollar that made their way up from El Salvador or Peru or, you know, where Mexico is the promised land for them. They're hoping to get to Mexico because they're living in the jungle somewhere in Ecuador. I mean, it's extreme intense poverty and extreme intense violence. And we're just sort of like not dealing with it.

We're not dealing with it, but we're actually fueling that type of system here in the United States. By keeping marijuana legal, we certainly are. By keeping marijuana legal and also through our current fiscal policy, you know, by allowing companies like Walmart to basically pay full-time employees so little

that the government has to subsidize their health care or food stamps, whatever it is, just so they can make ends meet. Like, we have that system here now, and we need to do something to change it. Well, it's exactly what they were protesting about during the WTO thing. It goes all back to Alex Jones!

I told you, Joe Rogan! That's what he was, his document, I think it was 9-1-1, A Road to Tyranny. It was all about that. It was all about how this is like an established pattern of behavior. And, you know, this agent provocateur thing that they do to break up peaceful protests. The World Trade Organization meeting was just about that very thing. It was about moving jobs to these other places and figuring out how to set up shop in third world countries.

You can pay people dirt wages. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how that's going to get fixed. When you cover this stuff on a daily basis, I mean, you guys are covering more serious issues than we are. We're basically just fucking around and finding things on the internet that I find are interesting. But you guys are like covering like some pretty legit stories and getting pretty in. Do you see any light at the end of the tunnel?

Do you see like a pot of gold in the rainbow for all this? I do see a light at the end of the tunnel, but we really need a revolution. And I'm not calling for violence and I'm not inciting violence. But I think that there has to come a point where we hit rock bottom and the political activism actually makes a difference you know the political activism needs to exist to begin with by the way because does even exist now they were at a point where the government can literally do whatever it was and no one will make a keep out of it the nsa conspired us

the obama administration can go i'd drop a drone or do a drone strike on an American citizen and his 16-year-old son, and no one will say a damn thing about it. That's the country we're living in right now. Our civil liberties are being destroyed. Our fiscal policy doesn't make sense. We need people to be politically active, and we need to get money out of politics. Those are the two things that matter the most. Do you think there's also the aspect of the amount of information that we're getting overwhelmed with on a daily basis? When you think about a story about the American citizen that was targeted, that was the jihadi guy. And they killed his son with drones.

And, you know, he was an American. I mean, they didn't try him. They just assassinated him. Is there too many stories coming in? I mean, go to CNN.com right now and you'll see a fucking million of them on the front page. Go to Yahoo. Go to all these news sites and you're like, God damn. That's part of the problem.

But, I mean, most of these stories are important news stories. Yeah, there's a lot of bullshit sprinkled in there. But a huge problem is, you know, every American, I have the luxury of keeping up with this stuff because it's my job. A lot of Americans don't have that luxury because they're working 12 hour work days. You know, they're working a few different jobs just to provide for their families. Who the hell is going to go home after a long day of work, sit down and read all of these news stories, much less understand the nuance of these news stories. That's a difficult thing to do and it's a lot to ask

of the American people. But the way that you can fix that is by creating a media, a form of media that is informative with no corporate interest. Because right now, the gold standard of news is still the MSNBC, CNN, Fox News. It's the stuff that you just turn on, you watch it in the background while you're trying to feed your kids and take care of your family. And that's problematic because a lot of those networks will spread misinformation, or they have a particular agenda. And as a result, they will only cover the news that fits their agenda. And there's an an issue with that but hopefully new media will grow to the point where it'll take over that system and it'll you know educate people enough to where they will want to stand up for their rights and they will want to

be politically active i'm teaching a class at cal state northridge right now it's a journalism class prepare for stalkers stalkers are coming i have a private security. It'll be fine. Good move. I'm going to double up on that now. My people are ferocious. And I remember when I first started teaching the class, I asked every single one of the students to tell me what they find most interesting in media. What do they want to cover? What's their beat?

And the vast majority of them were like entertainment news, sports news, you know, stuff that's really easy to cover and very profitable. So I don't blame them for wanting to do that. But I wanted to instill in them a type of intellectual curiosity where they would want to know about what's going on in the political world, where they would want to be these mini political activists. And I don't do it in the sense that I tell them, hey, you got to be progressive. I definitely shy away from that. But I want them to look at news stories critically and question the way that they're being covered. So that's like my little tiny bit of trying to make a difference. And I love doing that. Being an instructor at a university is a very thankless job. I've learned that this semester

since it's my first time doing it. But you've got to start by changing the way people learn about journalism, changing the way they cover stories, and you've got to get people to be critical thinkers. Or at least try to inspire them to be. It's really tough to get someone to do anything. It is. It is tough. But I will say I open every class with a production meeting. We do mock production meetings similar to what you would do in a newsroom.

And the type of stories that they pitch now are very different from what they started pitching in the beginning of the semester. So they're way more politically minded, which I love. All of a sudden they're bringing up the Glenn Greenwald, Edward Snowden type stories. And I'm like, yes. Like that's a little bit of a difference. And it makes me very happy. Do you feel like because i mean you do this for a living but do you think that you can even keep up with all the shit that's

happening on a daily basis no no i do how does a regular person it's difficult it's difficult how can they i mean it's it's almost impossible to be informed today it's almost impossible i don't truly informed i think i don't i don't think it's be truly informed? I think... I don't think it's impossible. I think it's overwhelming, but I don't think it's impossible. As a responsibility, how much do you have a responsibility to be informed? Not you, but a regular person with a regular job and a family.

And God forbid if you have a fucking hobby. But if you're working on something during the day, what are the odds that you can pay attention to the top ten news stories of the day and form a really clear opinion on any of them? It's very difficult. We're fucked.

Too many hours. It's very difficult. But you know what? Here's the thing, and people are not going to like what I'm about to say. Uh-oh. Everyone loves distractions. Like, how much time do we spend on social media? How much time do we spend watching reality shows

and doing things that we want to do because we just want to shut our brains off we want to numb ourselves to what's going on in the world right instead of doing that maybe we should change the culture so people will want to use that very precious time and that very precious resource uh to be informed they want to use it for that as opposed to being you know i think distracted the problem that people have with uh being informed over being distracted is that it's incredibly frustrating and you feel helpless. When you start reading all these stories about the stock market manipulations, about the banks

being bailed out, and about bailouts where the fucking people that were involved in the bailout somehow or another warranted some crazy commission, they got some bonus, and then the president says he's going to limit it to a half a million dollars. Like, a fucking half a million dollars is a lot of money, man.

What do you mean you're limiting it to a half a million? Didn't we just give them a ton of money? You feel helpless when you read about this shit over and over and over again. When you watch documentaries on fracking. When you read stories in the news about how poorly veterans are being taken care of when they come back from war. And there's so many different things that you read that doesn't make sense. I know. But when you look at all of these news stories, there's always one underlying issue.

In every news story, it's kind of amazing. And it always goes back to who is funding these politicians, right? If you get the money out of politics, that virus, if you destroy that virus, things will change quickly because our representatives will be forced to pay attention to the American people, the people that are voting for them, as opposed to the people who are paying them. You know, if you get rid of that type of bribery

that we're dealing with right now, the entire system needs to be changed. Unquestionably, but how does that ever happen? I mean, you have to get them to change it themselves as well. How else is it going to get changed? Well, here's the thing. Congress is obviously very corrupt. How dare you?

This is Congress of America. They're obviously very much bought by corporations. And as a result, it's really difficult for them to propose any real change. But when it comes to the state level, when it comes to state legislators, it's a little different. So we actually managed to get a state representative from Texas to propose a resolution for a constitutional convention. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier about Wolfpack. Constitutional Convention. And it goes back to what I was saying earlier about Wolfpack. And if we get state representatives from all the states to agree to this Constitutional Convention,

then we can actually have this constitutional amendment to get money out of politics. It's possible. We just need to inform people about it. Wolf-pack.com. Wolf-pack.com. Get on it. Well, I hope you're right, and I'm very hopeful. I think that it's incredibly difficult to get venom out of the system. And once it's in there, it's in there pretty deep. It's going to be very hard to heal this poisoned system. And the people that are accustomed to extracting money, that's a giant part of their motivation for being in the position when they're in the first place. Now all of a sudden they're there

and they can't extract money anymore. They're going to go, what kind of hippie bullshit is this? All of a sudden they're going to have to pay attention to the people that voted for them. That's crazy. They get to a point where they can't do that anymore. I think that's one of the things that we need

is we need new young politicians. I think that's hugely, hugely important. we need is we need new young politicians. I think that's hugely, hugely important until that happens. And principled politicians. I mean, you'll have some candidates who will run a campaign and they're genuine in how they want to change the system. I think Obama is an example of that. I think he was genuine to begin with. And then they enter the system and they're corrupted by what we have to deal with. They're corrupted by the money in politics. And I mean, what are you going to do? At the end of the day, you got to run for reelection. You need the funds, right? And you're going to get the funds from corporations. And then you have to basically get down on your knees and do whatever

the corporations need you to do. That's my opinion. I'm with you on this. But I talked to Sam Harris, who I respect very greatly, and his opinion is very different. He believes that there's so many dangerous people in the world that Obama got into office, then immediately realized how fucking scary the world is, and then started tightening down drone attacks, cut down on whistleblowers, surveillance ups, all the things that he did once he got into office.

What explains that, his reversal on Guantanamo Bay, he believes that it's because the stack of papers that he gets on his desk every day of memos telling him what's been avoided, how fucked up the world is, what dangers we're facing on a regular basis, who we need to attack before they attack us, that they're just trying to avoid another 9-11. I don't know if I'm really buying that argument. I think that we have this military-industrial complex, and I think that Obama does not want to seem weak when it comes to national security. So as a result, he will do things that are extreme.

I mean, if you're really concerned about national security, it's very curious for you to go about keeping the country safe by causing so much hostility toward the U.S. Think about that. We are bombing and doing drone strikes on innocent civilians abroad. That creates hostility toward the United States. That makes people want to attack us. So, I mean, I'm not really buying that, you know, Obama got in and he got scared. I think that people are making money off what's going on abroad right now. And I think that Obama is worried about seeming weak to Republicans. I mean, when you look at

almost all of his policies, he's always been so afraid of Republicans, which drives me crazy. The only thing that he's really had a good stance on was gay marriage. And that was after, what, years of being president? He finally came out and said, yeah, I guess I've changed my mind. Civil unions aren't enough. We should have same-sex marriage. Well, if you really believe that, then we should do something on the federal level. This is not a states' rights issue. This is a federal issue. This is a civil rights issue. I feel like gay rights and gay marriage is one of those beach balls they toss up at a concert. Totally. Everybody has to keep in the air because it keeps everybody distracted. Gay marriage, oh not my town. And they keep bouncing this stupid beach ball around. And politicians are now using it for

political gain, which is really frustrating. You know what I mean? It's, oh, look, it turns out that the majority of Americans are in favor of gay rights. So let's change our stance on that. They're not principled. And in that case, it's a good thing because I want gay rights. But I just, politicians will be politicians, you know, and a lot of them lack principle. Well, it's always been said that they're like, it's like politics or show business for ugly people. And actors are notorious for sticking their finger in the air and finding out which way the wind blows culturally. And then saying things that they don't necessarily believe in or necessarily have even researched. And that's hugely common when you're on sets. There's always these dumb bimbo actors that have opinions and males more than females, bimbo males.

And they'll have these opinions on something political or what the Democrats want. It's like, what the fuck are you even talking about? You're talking nonsense, dude. Did you just read a front page article in Salon for five seconds and now all of a sudden you're going to tell us what's wrong with the world? What they do is try to appear liberal. They try to appear progressive because they're not even human. But there are some weird form that like, they're like a mold that can grab human flesh and fucking fake it.

And they can walk through life pretending to have regular emotions and regular feelings. Meanwhile, they're just trying to get people to give them the next job. Trying to get people to like them enough to cast them in the next TV show or movie or whatever. They're barely even alive. They're these weirdos. And I think politicians are very much the same way. Obviously, this is a massive generalization. This is not all actors.

I met a lot of cool actors. But I have met a lot of fucking weirdos that are like Stepford Wives, like robot people. They're like some weirdo who's just trying to be whatever work, whatever pants work. Do I have to have fake rips on my jeans? What's the new thing? Should I wear a nose ring? No, nose rings are out. I mean, they're on the fucking whatever the edge is.

Everyone's wearing what everybody else is wearing. Do you remember when those Von Dutch hats were going around? And they had those fucking stupid trucker hats. And you're like, what are you doing? You have a fucking stupid trucker hat on. And everybody's got them. I just thought of Ashton Kutcher. Anytime I think of trucker hats, I think of Ashton Kutcher.

He was a young man at the time. I don't fault him. But I think it's that sort of a thing where you get that in politics as well. You get a human that's not even really a human. What they are is this thing that's leaning towards whatever pole. Gravity or the wind or the rush of the water beneath their feet. Whatever the fuck it is, it's pulling them one direction or another. There's no stability.

There's no base. There's no real ethics. And when they do have ethics, they look fucking crazy. They look like Ron Paul. They look like some nutty dude. They look like some Gary Johnson from New Mexico, some fringe character. Well, I mean, I think there have been politicians in the past who had ethics and people will look down on them. But a perfect example of a politician that actually gets a lot of respect is Elizabeth Warren.

If Elizabeth Warren ran for president, I'd be like, Hillary who? You know, like she's an amazing person who actually stood up to the banks when it was an unpopular thing to do and also when in this current system it's political suicide because these are the assholes are supposed to fund your campaigns right right so elizabeth warren you know is an incredible senator i don't i don't think that she's actually gonna run for president but people are becoming more and more open to principled politicians because it's refreshing.

I mean, when this whole Rob Ford thing was happening in Toronto, there were a number of supporters because they thought that it was refreshing that he was so honest. Even though he's freaking crazy. Smoking crack. But they're like, yeah, at least he's honest. All right. You know, maybe we'll vote for him again. Yeah, he did say that he smoked crack. He was pretty honest about it.

But if you look at a guy that's that fat, he's this giant moon face. He's wild. He's going to do anything. He's so indulgent. He is. Look what he's doing with food. Look what he's doing to his body. You think he's scared of some crack?

That guy's not scared of anything. Yeah. He'll smoke some crack. You think he's scared of some crack? That guy's not scared of anything. He'll smoke some crack. Yeah, I think that one of the things that this shift that's happening with information, one of the things that's going to be very fascinating about this erosion of privacy is that you're going to get real honest politicians because they have no choice.

Exactly. You know, what's amazing, though, is you'll have politicians that are on the record saying one thing. And then like a few months later, they backpedal or they say something or flip flop and they say something completely different. And they deny that they did a flip flop. And it's like like Mitt Romney is an example of that. There was evidence indicating that Mitt Romney supported Planned Parenthood. And then when he was running for president, he's like, I will shut Planned Parenthood down. It's like you're on the record, dude. There's evidence.

Are you unaware of the internet and how it holds you accountable to what you've done and said in the past? Well, Mitt Romney is still in denial that he's a first-generation Mexican. Yeah. He's still in denial of his family living over in Mexico. Remember he was talking about that very briefly during the campaign, that his father actually was born in Mexico and everybody was like, what? And then you get deep into it and you find like, oh, your dad was in a sex

cult. Oh. Wow. Mitt Romney was a character. He still is. Yeah. Yeah, he was governor of Massachusetts for a long time. People loved him. Did a good job. Some people loved him. Yeah, I mean, he had governor of Massachusetts for a long time. People loved him, did a good job. Some people loved him. Yeah, I mean, he had health care in Massachusetts. It's very similar to the Affordable Care Act.

And then he went off and started criticizing the Affordable Care Act. It's like amazing to me. Yeah, he would have fucked up as soon as he got in office, too. I think all of them, once they get in there, they just get taken down. You know, they get sat down and they get spelled out how the world really works. And they probably have hints of it before they actually get in there. But once they get in there and they meet with the fucking Bilderberg group and they meet with the international bankers that control the world's economy

and they just realize the depth of the puzzle, that's why they all go gray instantly. Oh, yeah. Obama has aged so much. It's kind of incredible. Wouldn't it be amazing if he did like an Eisenhower type final speech? When Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex. If Obama all these years- If Obama warned about the military industrial complex, that would be very funny.

If he got on TV and just said, listen, I've been bullshitting you people for eight years. Like, this system is fucking crazy. Move to Canada. That would be. Move to Hawaii. I'm going back there, too. He never would, though. I mean, even though he doesn't have to worry about getting reelected again, Democrats are holding him accountable.

They don't want to look bad because they want to make sure another Democrat gets elected. And it's all BS. It's the same. As long as our system is dealing with that virus, as long as our system has the money in politics, it doesn't matter if you're voting for a Democrat or a Republican. It's the same at the end of the day. They might be different with social issues. They might be a little different when it comes to fiscal policy, although Obama is not a good example of him being different when it comes to fiscal policy. They're not different when it comes to international policy. when it comes to things like gay marriage or things like right to choose and things along those lines. I feel like when you have a Republican in office, those things tend to get squashed. Yeah.

And I think that's one of the benefits of having a Democrat in office is you get more equality, especially when you're dealing with a Democrat who also happens to be black. I think it's good socially. But then when you look at what he's done in comparison to what Bush has done, man, it's real similar. It's hard to tell the difference between a Democrat and a Republican other than the healthcare issue,

which seems to be a clusterfuck. But I would imagine everything that you get started from scratch is a clusterfuck. I don't know why anybody would think that it wouldn't be a clusterfuck. Yeah, I... Look, the one thing that I just don't understand is why everyone's panicking about the website.

The website keeps crashing. It's not worth it. Whatever. They'll figure it out. It'll be fine. Get the porn guys to figure it out. It'll be fine. Those guys get six billion hits a day.

Yeah. They're up. That's the problem that the Obama administration didn't think about. They just hired the wrong people. They should hire porn people. Yeah. When was the last time you went to a porn website and it crashed because too many people were on it? That shit never happens. I'm not saying that you go to

porn websites, but I'm saying anybody out there, perverts, you weirdos, if you ever gone to one and you found out that there's too many people on the server crashed, that doesn't happen. They figure out how to make that work. And I guarantee you way more people are going to a porn site than are going to any government site, whether it's Obamacare or Medicare or whatever. Name the site. So the one thing that I will agree on in terms of it being a clusterfuck is only 50,000 Americans have signed up through the website, which could be disastrous. Because in order for the Affordable Care Act to work, you need people to sign up. Yeah, I have doubled out on my Instagram page, bitch.

Do you? That's amazing. No, it I have doubled out on my Instagram page, bitch. Do you? That's amazing. No, that's not that much. There's people with millions. Yeah, there are. More than a million on Twitter. That's the most places I have. Twitter, I think I have.

Yeah, you have a ton of followers on Twitter. 1,175,682. That's bananas. That's a lot. I think I have like 40. But I'm sure a lot of them are fake. I haven't ever paid for any that are fake, but there's a lot of bots out there and a lot of people that use fake Twitter accounts. They do, yeah.

To inflate things. I don't want to do that. I don't want to pretend as if I'm a big superstar or something. There's a lot of people that have done it, though. It's pretty common. Apparently, it's pretty easy to do. You just pay some money and they get you X amount of fake followers. I think for some people, it gives them some sort of confirmation that they're okay. Yeah. And they say, oh, he's got 25,000 Twitter followers. He must be legit. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah. It's so funny because going back to the class that I'm teaching, one of my students looked me up and she's like, holy shit, you have all these followers and you're verified. I'm like, oh, does that make me more legitimate now? Because I have like a verified Twitter account. But people think it's a big deal. It's really funny. Yeah, it's big. Well, it's big. If someone says, hey, man, I want to come on your podcast. And I go to their page and they have 212 Twitter followers. I'm like, bitch, you don't have any followers. That's true. So you took a look at my, you looked at my Twitter page? No, I didn't. I've just seen your show. I'm like, bitch, you need a lot of followers. That's true. So you took a look at my, you looked at my Twitter page? No, I didn't. I've seen your show. I assumed you're legit. Okay, good. I didn't, uh, didn't go to your Twitter page, but we can go there right now. What do you got? How much you got? Let me check this out. I think 42,000. Is that a lot? I don't

think so. I think that's decent. How long you been on the Young Turks? Oh gosh, for seven years. Yeah, that's not enough. You need more Twitter followers. What you need to do is show a little ass. Oh, is that what I need to do? Yeah, for sure. Should I take the titty pictures that you referred to earlier? No, you don't have to go titty. Just take some pictures with you in a bikini, looking over your shoulder, at your butt. Those are huge.

Just one of those. Probably get you a fat. No, you don't want to do that, obviously. People out there are screaming at me right now. This is why we need feminism assholes like you do you get shit for saying that you uh you don't like radical feminism do you ever get uh people angry at you for no the funny thing is a lot of people think that i am a radical feminist which i'm not well any girl that's smart is a feminist instantly yeah it's really really funny. I'm actually, I think the word feminism

is tainted at this point. And I would much rather refer to myself as a gender equality... Specialist. Specialist, I guess. Diversification tool. Whatever.

Whatever you want to call it. Because, look, men get the short end of the stick when it comes to some serious issues. Women get the short end of the stick when it comes to serious issues. I don't like the brand of feminism that tells me that I can't be feminine. I fucking hate

that. Like I want to wear my dresses and I want to feel sexy and beautiful and I want to push for equality. You can do that. Those things are not mutually exclusive. So that's just an example. They are. If you look like Fred Flintstone, you don't like wearing makeup. They probably will. That's when they become mutually exclusive. Well, I think it's one of those things where there's certain people that don't want other people behaving differently than them, especially if they feel like they're being judged by the fact that you're wearing makeup and you have heels on and they don't like that, then they get judged.

Well, then they start turning that against you instead of saying, look, hey, it's different strokes for different folks. Okay. Some people like this, some people like that. Instead of saying, look, hey, it's different strokes for different folks. Exactly. Some people like this, some people like that. Instead of that, they look to you like you're some sort of a traitor. Meanwhile, those same people, if it was a man that was wearing makeup and wearing a dress, wearing high heels, they would go, you go, girl. They would be happy for you because that's the progressive move. If it's a transgender person, a man who became a woman and wants to wear long nails and wants to like be really dainty and feminine that's all well and groovy yeah but when a woman is dainty and exactly yeah and the argument that they'll make is well if you don't want to be objectified then don't objectify yourself it's not objectifying i don't i don't find it objectifying just because

i'm wearing something that's considered sexy doesn't mean that I'm asking people to objectify me. And if people do, then that's on them. It's kind of like saying if a woman dresses sexy, then she deserves to get raped. She should expect to get raped, right? No. A woman who dresses sexy shouldn't expect someone to do anything. I don't think you should expect to get objectified ever. What does objectify even mean?

If someone is attracted to you physically, are they objectifying you? If they want to look at you while they have sex with you, are they objectifying you? When they find you sexy, at what point, where's the gradient? What's the spectrum where it falls into objectification of women? If you're not profiting off of her, are you objectifying? Where's the gray area? It's kind of a strange thing. If someone likes the way you look in a dress, are they objectifying you?

How is that objectifying? It's just a fashion sense or it's just an aesthetic. And it's stupid to pretend as if women don't objectify men as well. I did it the other day when I went on a hike and there was a ton of hot guys guys without their shirts on. People, that's human nature to objectify. Well, I don't like that word. I think it's you're admiring. You're attracted to it. So what is objectify? You want to turn them into an object. It means dehumanizing them. It means removing their humanity and use them as a fuck toy. But that's not what you're looking to do. That's not what you're looking to do. You are physically attracted to someone and that's the first thing that stands out to you.

I think that it becomes wrong when that's all you see in the person, right? When that's all that matters to you and someone's level of intellect or character means nothing. You know what? I don't even think that's wrong. Really? No. I think if you're nice to each other and you just like dating people that are really pretty, who gives a shit? Am I supposed to be upset at you if you have dumb friends? No, but when you fuck dumb people, I'm supposed to get mad. Can't you do better? Maybe he doesn't want to do better. Maybe he likes being around dumb friends.

Maybe he likes having a dumb girlfriend or a dumb boyfriend. Who do I give a shit? No, no, no. I don't care what other people do. I don't want to be looked upon that way. I don't want people to look at me and say, oh, she's just a pretty face and nothing more than that. No one's going to do that unless they're trying to define you. I mean, you know better than that. How dare you? How dare you play that game? You know that. That's not going to fly. Yeah. I think there's also an issue where people, they feel uncomfortable if they're not seen as attractive. And so they try to squash other things that people think are attractive. They try to belittle attempts at

being attractive. I mean, I think there's an issue in that as well. If there wasn't an issue in that, and if you're a type of person that likes wearing Chuck Taylors and loose jeans and t-shirts, what do you care if a woman is wearing a bikini on a beach? What do you care if someone wears a miniskirt? How does that affect you? It doesn't affect you. I think competition, jealousy, all of that kind of plays a role in that as well. It exposes douchebags. It's excellent at that. It exposes asshole men. I mean, yeah, you put yourself in a vulnerable position if you walk yourself in a vulnerable position if you walk around like wearing a bikini

and you're walking down main street and you have fucking high heels on you're gonna run into a lot of weird people yes you're kind of giving

them a green light to get freaky with you or at least going look at you baby what are you wearing your underwear yeah it's a weird way

to end it I think we have to run out of time three hours in we turn into a pumpkin. This was a great show. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I enjoyed it, too.

It was a lot of fun. People got to know you. Yeah, I hope they liked me. They liked you. According to Twitter, they appeared to like you. Oh, that's awesome. Just one last shout-out to Robert. You have a lot of fans.

They're like, you've got to give me a shout-out. Robert in Miami. Robert in Miami. Go fuck yourself, dude. How dare you? Just kidding, Robert. Thank you to our sponsors. Thanks to LegalZoom.

Use the code word ROGAN in the referral box and save yourself some cash, son. Thanks also to Stamps.com. Use the code word JRE and get your $110 bonus offer, which includes a digital scale and up to $55 of free postage. Go get it, girl. And we're also brought to you by Onnit.com. That's O-N-N-I-T. Use the code name ROGEN. Save yourself 10% off any and all supplements.

We will be back tomorrow with the great Graham Hancock, one of my personal favorite human beings that has ever walked the face of the earth. He's an awesome guy with an alternative view of human history, and you're going to love the shit out of it. All right We love you. Bye. Bye