The Joe Rogan Experience - #418 - Jeremy Stephens, Eddie Bravo

Episode Date: November 18, 2013

Jeremy Stephens is an MMA fighter currently fighting in the UFC's featherweight division. Eddie Bravo is a jiujitsu black belt, music producer, and author. He also hosts his own podcast called "Eddie Bravo Radio".

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. While we were doing the commercials, it was just too good. I had to stop and just make the podcast live because on Sirius Adelaide Radio, none of that other stuff will go on because it's all the commercials. But talking about, we were talking, I'm here with Jeremy Stevens, Little Heathen in the house, and the great Eddie Bravo, my brother. Thank you for having me.

And we're going to talk about the UFC for sure. Right now we're talking about lucid dreaming, and Eddie was bringing up the fact that if you study methods, there's books that they have, there's exercises that you can do. DVDs. Try to figure out how to get yourself in a state where you can have a lucid dream. And you did it a couple times. And again, lucid dreams, a lot of people think lucid dreams are crystal clear dreams.

Lucid dreaming is when you know you are dreaming, not a crystal clear profound dream. It's when you figure out you're dreaming, you can control everything. Everything becomes super clear. Like once I figured out I was dreaming and it worked, all this DVD talks to you while you're sleeping and then it wakes you up he's trying to wake you up in your dream you're dreaming wake up you're dreaming you're dreaming wake up control this DVD you're saying that teaches you how to so you go to sleep with this is that what you do and there's all these mental exercises you do you have to think of a you're on an island with you know think about the person you want to dream with

and all that there's it's really hard it's easier just to go to fucking about the person you want to dream with and all that. A happy place. It's really hard. It's easier just to go to fucking sleep. What if you got to like, if it's a five DVD series, you got to like DVD number five and it's like, and I'm going to come to my house and you're going to unzip my pants and you're going to suck my cock. Like it's programming you. It's all programming people across the country. It could.

You could be this guy's blowjob slave. But the two most popular things, there's a lot. There's black belts at lucid dreaming. If you have the, it's a mental exercise and you just want to go to sleep generally at night. So it's very hard to do. You have to be militant and you have to be sharp while you're tired and ready to go to sleep. It's hard. But it worked a couple times for me. And the two things that most people like doing are flying.

As soon as they figure out they're in a dream, they go, fuck, I'm going to fly. Fuck, I'm flying. Shit. And then sex. They go right to sex. And it's true because the two times it worked for me. And when I used to have lucid dreams as a kid, I actually had them when I was a kid once or twice a year. And I'm talking about being like eight or nine years old.

And the first thing I wanted to do was just like find a girl and make out with her and just like hump her. It was a weird thing. It was a weird thing. her and just like hump her. It was a weird thing. It was a weird thing. I was a wanted little kid. It was a weird thing. I wanted to go look for girls. And I remember these lucid dreams. I remember a couple I'll never forget.

Well, isn't it amazing that when your hormones are at your highest, that's when you're the youngest and dumbest and not able to control that shit at all? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, think about it. You're 13. Your shit is killing you. All day you're baffled. It's like you went through your whole life, you know, feeling like pretty much the same dude, just slowly growing.

And then all of a sudden, you get into a storm of confusion in high school where your dick is hard all day. You don't know what the fuck is going on. And God forbid you find a girl who's willing to touch your dick. Oh, my God. You stick to her like glue. She's like your drug dealer. You're a crack addict, and she's your drug dealer.

And you hang around with her no matter what. Stay close. You can't even believe this. My favorite thing is to hang out with a girl? When the fuck did that happen? Even if it's just making out, because it's going to be making out for a while. Making out is awesome. You just want to make out for a while.

I want to go to movies just to make out. Just like, whatever. Fuck the movie. Let's just make out. It's the only private spot at 13 that you could find. It's dark. But anyways,

about these dreams, I ended up doing it twice and that's what I did the first time. As soon as I figured out I was dreaming, because you are dreaming, I'm like,

I am dreaming. Everything became really bright and immediately I flew with my hands down like that like fucking Iron Man through canyons and it was so bright and all I kept thinking was,

I can't believe this is a dream. This is so clear and it was so bright. And all I kept thinking was, I can't believe this is a dream. This is so clear. This is so vivid. That's all I was thinking. Dreams are amazing. And I'm flying through canyons like Ironman. And I thought, oh, I'm going to have sex now. And this is when I was single. This is before I was married. So I was a single man. So immediately from the, I remember like a video. I descended from the, into the canyons and up came this girl hiker, this hot girl. And she just smiled at me like a dream in a movie. Like if this was in a movie, I came down into the canyon, she's hiking, she's hot. And we, I take off her clothes and we start lovemaking. And I couldn't, and I remember thinking, I can't believe this is a dream. This is so real.

And then bam, I woke up. With a vicious boner. Yeah, right there. I woke up. It was so crystal clear. I just got too excited. I'm like, I can't believe this is a dream. I feel like I'm having sex right now. That's always been my issue. You're coming all the time. But no, really, my issue with lucid dreams that they go away too easy. Because you get excited because you can't believe you're dreaming, yeah. And you know that all you got to do is open your eyes, and then you start opening your goddamn eyes. Take those supplements, hit the sprint program that we're on, and I'm telling you, man, you'll dream amazing dreams. What sprint program are you on? Just the Alliance sprint program.

What's the Alliance sprint program? It's basically just for the first minute, 15 seconds, like you're running by yourself, like at a 15 incline. So it's all treadmill sprinting? It's treadmill sprinting, and then we also do 400 meters 15 times. So we're running around the track. That's one sprint, 15 times, like 55, 50-second rest, and then again, boom. So this is something that everyone on the team does?

Pretty much, yeah. Wow That's is that unique to an MMA camp that the team has a single Strength and conditioning protocol that kind of everybody follows like a I think I think it's very important just to follow a set structure Yeah, you know, you know the you know, the ground rules It's kind of like how we're talking about the math program the other day the Lumosity Stuff you just basically set like a good foundation If you have good stability, good foundation, I think you're a lot more easier to control your goals. Yeah, but do a lot of MMA camps have that?

Like they have a sprint series that the whole camp will do every week or a strength and conditioning series that the whole camp will do? I imagine. I think I've heard of Greg Jackson. I think he's real famous for his sand domes, something like that. So I think that's a good one. You see about like Carlos Condit and guys like that always hitting some high altitude. And I know Diego Sanchez is all big into altitude.

But I think everybody either does their own thing or at least there is some type of structure where they do do sand domes. A lot of the big teams at least. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a big benefit to a team isn't there when you're a you're a fighter i mean it's the most it's the most intimate individual thing ever it's the most lonely separated selfish completely yeah selfish completely on your own but there's a massive benefit obviously to being a part of a team because you see like like at this point in

time there seems to be like a separation there's very few high level fighters that are training like individually that you don't know who they're training with you don't hear about them training with anybody good it's very very few it's usually guys that are sort of just getting into the game and then they'll find like when john jones before he joined jackson's camp he was up in upstate new york and you know didn't have guys like his level around there. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, went over to Jackson's and then really started to catch his stride.

He was searching for that coach. Yeah. The full package. Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of the fighters need that. That's what I do with a lot of my time and money was spent searching for a coach and just a good camp, somebody that just fit me. Yeah. And it took me a while to settle in, and I think I found that at Alliance MMA.

Yeah, there's a gang of good camps in this country now. At one point in time, it was just like ATT and, you know. They're still good, and they're still getting a lot of people. I mean, Tyrone Woodley just came up huge over the weekend. God damn. You know what? This is what I think of Tyrone Woodley. Tyrone.

I'm watching a GSP, and I'm watching Johnny Hendricks. I'm watching them and I'm really thinking, I don't know if this is a bad thing to say, but I'm thinking, like, who cares who wins here because Tyrone Woodley's going to come and fuck both these dudes up. Well, Tyrone Woodley just lost to Jake Shields. Yeah, but man. Before that, he got knocked out by Nate Marquardt, too.

I mean, I think Tyrone Woodley's a bad motherfucker. I think he's going to rise. He's an amazing athlete. But Tyron Woodley, he really has to. He beat Koscheck, but he really has to face the really high-level guys like Carlos Condit. And we'll see if he's capable. I think he's an amazing athlete. And if he's not capable of beating that Calbert guy now, or he wasn't maybe a year ago when he fought Marquardt,

he's going to keep getting better and better and better. This is what I think. The only reason I say that is just based on that Koscheck fight, just based on that. He had all the potential, high-level wrestler, and he has good striking, but in that Koscheck fight, I saw a different human being. I never seen anybody throw punches that fast in MMA. That's the fastest, most powerful.

You see those right hands? There was like several of them. You're like, what? I just missed it. It was just that you just saw a display of raw, immense power. I don't see anybody throwing punches like that. Athleticism with precise. That's how Koscheck became.

It seems like he finally is putting it together. Did you notice that? Did you see the stand-up? Holy fuck, that was fast. Three different times, not just once. Koscheck used to be the same dude. He came out. He was wrestling people.

And everybody's like, oh, man, this guy always does his wrestling. Next thing you know, he's knocking dudes out with the right hand because he's starting to feel a lot more confident. Probably after the show, he got into a good camp, which where now he's like, oh, man, now I have stand-up skills. I'm already an athlete. I know I can wrestle. Next thing you know, he's starting to believe in his hands more.

I'd probably credit that to, like, him being down at American Top Team, starting to train and use his athleticism because the dude's obviously a freak of nature. Did you see Woodley's fight with Jay Heron? I probably did, but, like, 90% of UFC fights, I forget him. It was the first round knockout. It was incredible. It just swarmed him. Doesn't it seem like the way he threw that right hand, no one will survive that thing if he connects.

And it's so fast. He's got that. That's for sure. And he's got the wrestling. I think what happens with even the Brazilian fighters, too, is high-level jiu-jitsu black belts, they'll come in, and they definitely are not where they need to be with their striking. And some of them, like super high-level guys, they come in and try MMA, and they just haven't spent enough time with their striking. And they'll just leave MMA and just go back to jiu-jitsu because the striking was just too hard. just too hard but then there's some guys that stick it out and they go through rough patches and they

lose because of their striking people will criticize them because of their striking like Verdun for instance and then after a while they just stick it out and like Damian Maia they just stick it out people talking shit on their striking but they stick it out they handle some losses and as long as they just keep going and keep the consistency up, all of a sudden Fabrizio Verdum is a dangerous striker now. All of a sudden Damian Maia is a real legit striker. You find out what type of man you are when you're winning, you're on top, everybody thinks you're all good, but then when you lose, you're like,

man, I really got to work on some things. But you find out what type of man this guy is going to be. Is he going to go back out there? Is he going to work on things and get better? Or is he just going to go out there and fold over and then that was it? Yeah, for some fighters, it is a big confidence hit that they never recover from. They have this idea that they're unbeatable from the jump. And then once someone beats them, they have to sort of rethink their whole paradigm.

And some guys don't ever do it. Some guys come back stronger. Some guys come back from you know some guys come back from a loss and they're a different guy they're they're more focused more intense more aware they cut out all the bullshit in their camp they thought back on all the things that they did that might have cost them it's wisdom you know it's just like growing and getting older making changes just even outside of fighting you know fighting doesn't define half these guys that are in the afghan because a lot of them are real cool dudes you know everybody i've ever met's been been like

super down-to-earth awesome so you meet a lot of cool guys but it does it does play a difference you know yeah there's no doubt man there's no doubt do you think that um you just cut down from 155 to 145 pounds and that's like one of the big issues in mma that people keep talking about is the amount of weight guys cut and and they cut it. You know, a guy like Tyron Woodley, what does he weigh? Dude, he's a beast. How is he 170? That makes zero sense. You know, I'm not racist or anything,

but you ever notice black guys are really, really huge, right? I love when people say that and then they talk about black people. I'm not racist. How is having a perfect body? Having a perfect body, how is that bad? How is liking watermelon bad? Watermelon's fucking delicious. Exactly.

And, well, they'll jump on the scale, and then they're like, they're not as heavy. You know, like their body's not as dense. I remember this friend of mine back home, D'Amico, and he was just this big dude. And we used to work together at the same company, and he would just eat whatever, chips, hot dogs, whatever, and he was just always jacked, man. Wow. Never understood it, you know? And I'm like jealous. I'm over here getting like a belly. I'm like, Jesus, no dogs, whatever, and he was just always jacked, man. Wow. Never understood it, you know? And I'm like jealous.

I'm over here getting like a belly. I'm like, Jesus, no way, man. There's some dudes like that. It's just having a mesomorphic frame. That's what it is, and that's what Tyron Woodley is. He's an extreme mesomorph, you know? When you cut down to 145, how much did you have to lose? Man, I'm probably at 176, 177 right now.

Oh, my God. I cut a lot of weight, but I credit that to the fitness VT diet that I'm on and George Lockhart, who just knows how to weight cut. I was thinking about it for a long time, and just the changes going down there, I'm a lot faster. I feel a lot more athletic. I'm working on my athleticism. I'm trying to be a lot more precise.

And I know that the power is always there. It's a lot more natural, but I feel like I have just a better mental edge. I can use a lot more of tools at 145 pounds, and, you know, I basically grew up inside the octagon. I probably shouldn't have been there at a certain time. It's just that my heart carried me through, like, a lot of fights, so, like I said, I was searching for this camp to help me out. I'm like, man, it's good to hold me. I have talent, you know. I just wanted to get out of my hometown after a certain while. I can only – Which was?

Which was Des Moines, Iowa. Okay. And, you know, I was just like, man, I need to get a hold of some better guys. I got to train, get higher level coaching. Right, right. You know, just different type of stuff. I mean, I didn't even have a striking coach. I was just going to gym to gym, whichever was the best, I was there.

So I think I just credit that to, like we said, you know, my coaches and then, you know, making that cut. I need the George Lockhart in Fitness VT because he gives me everything. I mean, I'm water loading a lot. I don't want to give away too much of his stuff. But I feel amazing. And it's the reload after the weight cut, the stuff and the things that he has me eat, specifics and everything that I'm calculating. It's amazing. And I feel awesome.

How much do you put back on? So if you get down to 145, what do you weigh when you walk into the octagon? About 170. Jesus Christ, son! That's crazy. Oh, my God. Are you using IVs? That's actually eating light.

Yeah, I do. How many IV bags do you put back in? I do two. I do one water, like regular water, and then I do like a warm temperature, like a sodium bag. Wow. Just to obtain. Like if you didn't have those bags, it make a big difference right yeah hell yeah you can definitely

tell some people that don't like you know that they don't want to do the bags and I keep telling them at the high level you know you want to rehydrate scientifically and very yeah yeah there was a guy in the UFC that got caught way back in the day because he was taking blood out of his body to make weight they went to his hotel room there was a he was taking blood out of his body to make weight. They went to his hotel room. There was a doctor there and fucking bags of his blood. They took it out.

I don't know what they did. They stored it somehow or another. I guess they had a freezer there or a refrigerator there or something and they put it back in his body later. It's like blood doping, right? Like blood doping, yes, but they're not giving him enough chance

to rebuild the blood cells. The blood doping, the way it works is your body rebuilds all those blood cells, and then you reintroduce all this extra blood. You've got crazy amounts of blood now, and your body is eventually going to burn it off, but until then, enjoy the benefits of extreme production of oxygen or utilization of oxygen. That's what that EPO stuff does too. That's what those cyclists keep getting busted for. That dude's going too hard. He's going that EPO stuff does too. That's what those cyclists keep getting busted for. That dude's going too hard.

He's going too hard right there. So this guy, he cut the weight and then the last couple of pounds he took out in blood. Nice. And then he put it right back in when he went back. Some people pass out. I mean, you're already cutting down weight and then go to do that. I guess depending on how much weight he cut. I've seen dudes

that look like they're on death's door. I've seen dudes that are cutting weight. Like Travis Luter when he fought Anderson Silva. I've seen dudes that look like they're on death's door. I've seen dudes that are cutting weight. Like Travis Luter, when he fought Anderson Silva, I've never seen a guy look worse in my life that's still alive. He was shuffling. He couldn't walk, man. He was shuffling towards the scale the second time he was making weight. His lips were chapped as fuck.

His whole face was sucked in. He looked like he was dying. I mean, he was dying. He was essentially draining himself out, but he just miscalculated. He looked like he was dying. I mean, he was dying. He was essentially draining himself out, but he just miscalculated. He couldn't get down. He was this close to beating Anderson Silva. Damn, he was all over him.

Dude, out of all the guys who were super talented that didn't live up to their potential, Travis Luter might be number one in my book. He's one of those guys you're talking about that trained himself. Trained himself. He didn't like going to camp. He was from Texas,

and he went to Jackson's towards the last few fights of his career. I think he was at Jackson's when he lost to Natal, and I think that might have been the last fight. He's got some back issues, though, too, from jiu-jitsu. Who doesn't? You know, you're constantly training and rolling, and you're going to get some back issues.

Ricardo Laborio told me he's got, like, six bulging discs or seven bulging discs, something crazy. These guys are all, like, a little bit jacked up. They're back. Needs to get on the lacrosse ball, man, the medicine ball. Yeah. Theracanes, dude.

I swear by those. Like, it opens up my posture. If I start going like this, I don't know if you see. If people are watching, like, you'll start getting rounded. Like, Vanderlei can't throw a straight punch. Right. But if you get in a lacrosse ball and you're able to break up your pec minor, your pec major, your lats, your traps, you know, even like your scapula and you're able to get in those knots that are hurting, your elbow's not going to hurt anymore because you're elongating the muscles that need to be elongated. You know, if you're tight.

Are you talking about like a rumble roller? No, like a lacrosse ball. Like a lacrosse ball or like a softball or a baseball. Yeah. Something hard. Like I get in my hip flexors because constantly running, wrestling, being like on your thing. Like my knees will start to hurt. So I'll get on like a lacrosse ball.

I mean I'll break up everything. Every muscle down from my hip. I'll start at like the glute, the hip flexor. Does it ever accidentally go up your ass? Never. Never, never. Never, no, man. You're not trying hard enough.

How many times has that happened to you? Three or four. Whatever. Hey, did you wrestle? Yeah, as a kid. As a kid growing up, I did wrestle. Jeremy, you might get closer to the mic. Oh, sorry.

It makes a big difference. Is that better? Yeah. I don't want to brief too hard. You can grab it and move it towards you. You can just do it like this and bring it towards you. Nice guy. There you go.

Look at that. Nice. I actually grew up wrestling as a kid. One of my uncles, my grandfather, he was real big into wrestling and boxing and stuff like that. So when my parents were kind of going through a hard time, he's the one who encouraged me to get into wrestling, get involved in sports like that. So I started wrestling as a kid. How old? About five years old.

Until, did you wrestle in high school? I did wrestle in high school I wrestled one year in high school my parents had a had a complication so I was kind of I was transferring like a lot of schools so I was kind of wrestling but like I was on like another side of town that one week I was on another side town there's a recipe for becoming a fighter yeah a bunch of schools yep so when I when I wrestled I wasn't like great or anything i just you know used heart just out there strongholding people and and uh that's basically how i got involved with ufc was through my grandfather watching that so i do have a little bit of a wrestling background i'd say my wrestling is a lot better now working with

uh good guys olympic level guys guys like dominant crews coaches pushing me so i'm always in there with like a good set of dudes you know that are how long you've been with alliance now you're in san diego right you're training yeah about about three years now that's awesome solid yeah the first year it took me a while to get to get used to it man we train hard up there we spar hard we go hard a lot of drills a lot of technique what took it took you like what was the biggest transition the hardest part of it conditioning or what was it was hard to get used to just the day in day out just the I mean I say I hung in there You know that's not I mean I have my good days my bad days But it's just it's just everybody's after the same goals the same dreams, but it's the day in day out

You know anybody can fight we can go right to the Chevron, you know and to start a fight You know anybody can just go fight, but when you actually discipline yourself It's the day and you know the hardest thing is like man. You're sore like you're talking about you're like, oh man I got to get up. I got to go train Yeah, you know you want to disappoint like man you're sore like you're talking about you're like oh man i gotta get up i gotta go train yeah you want to disappoint your your boys let alone do you want to lose the fight you know you got to give up who you are now for who you want to be in the future yeah george saint pierre was uh talking about after the fight it was it was an interesting thing i don't want to hear nothing about george saint pierre on this podcast can you imagine you imagine we just made a plot?

Yeah. We should have trolled everyone else. You're like, you're right, you're right. It's not talked about. Fuck that fight. It's not even that important. Yeah, I don't want to. That's the last thing I want to say.

But he was talking about how he can't sleep. He's got a few personal issues, apparently, allegedly, that's being reported online. And unfortunately, with his family's health and what have you I don't know what's true what's not true but that's what this story is which makes a ton of sense why he's saying that he can't sleep you know he's having a real hard time he thinks he's going crazy aliens and yeah he was talking about it on the podcast he said he gets abducted by aliens but I think also it's just fucking hard to keep up I think what you're saying about the the day in day out day in day out and intensify that even more when you're in the champ

and you're in the top of a hill with a bunch of hungry sharks nipping at your feet. But he's stressed out all the time, man. I'm telling you, you've got to have those type of lacrosse balls. You've got to keep your stress levels down because if you're stressed out all the time, say a fight week, I'm stressed out all week. I can't get my weight. I'm stressing out. I'm freaking out.

I'm going through crazy. So my nervous system is just going to become erratic.'s like man we are stressing we are going crazy right now by the time you go to fight and you need all those hormones that you need to go like boost yourself up get yourself back into that mode your body's just gonna be like no bro we're already tapped out you know we've been freaking out chilling out so then like you're just like boom you just hit like a crash as compared to if like you're relaxed all week you're chilling out you're not really you're just thinking the good vibes you know weight's going down things are just going beautiful everything's looking sharp but you're just keeping yourself relaxed the whole time so

then when you go to fight you're energized to the max you're like boom it's all right now it's this is what we train for you yeah that's the adrenaline dump right that's i think the all week or few days leading up to it a lot of guys a little tense man man. I think he needs to just relax, bro. And, you know, like this is the fight game where we have small gloves. This isn't boxing, you know, where you're hitting yourself with 16s, which is even bad as it is. These guys, man, some of these dudes that are swinging at you, you know, they can put you out any second.

How about shins, man? How about your fight with Honey Jason? How about that shin that you caught him with in the first round? Holy shit. Did you see that fight? God damn, dude. Thanks, man. And about your fight with Honey Jason? How about that shin that you caught him with in the first round? Holy shit. Did you see that fight? God damn, dude. And let me tell you something. That follow-up right hand was ferocious. There was no hesitation. You cracked him with that, and you were on autopilot.

You just launched that right hand on him, and that shit was perfect. Pull that up, Brian. Pull that video up. Jeremy Stevens versus Ronnie Jason. R-O-N-Y. You pronounce it honey. You need a poster. You know what would make a great poster that big right there?

The KO. It's a poster of that uppercut. You know that big uppercut? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that right in mid uppercut. Thank you, man. That would make a great poster. Oh, the Rafael Dos Anjos uppercut?

Yeah, wouldn't that make a great poster? Come on. I think it would be good, but I'd have to give the poster away, man. I don't like looking at stuff like that. Right. I read this book one time, this architect, because people would come up to me like, oh, man, like, what was your favorite fight or whatever? And I always tell them my next one, you know, because I just think of, like, visualization,

you know, visionary, you know, like, always want, like, it was a cool knockout. I appreciate everybody giving me, like, all the love, but there's still more work in the gym that I've been working on, you know, and I've been at this for a while, but I really feel like I'm just starting to, like, barely tap into my potential. How old are you? I'm just getting better. 27. 27?

Yeah. Damn, you're a big... On my 21st birthday, I fought, it was my, that was when I fought Den Thomas. You just must have been some crazy motherfucker coming up locally, right? For you to, like, for Joe Silva to take notice of you, you're 21 years old, and to go, we got to put this fucking beast. Were you beasting people in Iowa? What was going on?

Yeah, I was hitting people with spinning back fist, flying knees. You were knocking everybody out. Knocking a lot of guys out. Not everybody. I had a few submissions and stuff like that. What was your record before the UFC? I think it was like 7-1, 8-1, something like that. Mostly knockouts?

Mostly, yep. Comes from knockouts. Vicious knockouts? Did you have a highlight reel of vicious striking? How did Joe Silver notice that? Actually, my highlight reel is so old because anytime I put something for the UFC up there, they just take it down, so I don't really get a chance. Not a lot of people.

Everybody that probably YouTubes me is probably like, man, this is old school stuff. Where is this from? But when you fight a UFC guy, you have the honor to be like, hey, can you send me over his tapes? And then you got all the UFC tapes. What do you think about that, about how they do it? Here's the KO right here. This is the slow-mo version of it.

Oh, my God, that shit is perfect. And look at this. Dude, that might be one of the best one-twos ever. Boom and blam. God. Dude, that shit is fero that shit is for what I'm talking about right there when they say it's ferocious if I like that I like that I like seeing violence you know that I'm a big mm-hmm I'm for violence I like watching it but panic concussions yeah but when we're talking about the Rusamar Paharas thing

where he held on the tap too late or too long. See, man, I'm going to get a bit controversial on this. I think he got a bum deal on that because I think what he held on to was barely a second. And, yeah, it's fucked up to do and he does it, but he did it way worse in the past. And I think he's at least a little bit crazy. I think it's real hard to get that guy to let go. I think when he's trying to tap you, it's some life and death shit. He grew up on a farm.

He had no schooling. He was eating pig slop when he was 13. I mean, I think you're not dealing with a regular dude here. Yeah, that's a very aggressive behavior to be living like that. I never heard that about him, but I imagine that's a little bit more of an aggressive behavior than a human. He grew up in a very, very, very, very tough environment.

Much, much harder than I think most of us can comprehend. Listen, listen. That just blows me away, dude. That's crazy. He's eating pig slop. He has a giant scar on his chest from when he had cut open and they couldn't get him medical attention. So they used crazy glue on it and tried to pinch it together.

He has a giant scar on his chest. I agree with you, though. I think he got a raw deal because I think if there's something wrong with what he did, then there's something wrong with what Dan Henderson did to Bisping or what you just did right there. I love that shit. No, no, no. He didn't get called off, and that guy could have jumped up any second now.

I don't think, yeah. You know what I did was bad. I happened to land the kick and then I came right back, right back to my base. I kind of saw him go to get up, which I thought maybe he was TKO because I knew it was a good shot. And I didn't expect it. I expected to land and land hard, at least like scare him. But he leaned into that and it was basically off feints. So then when I kicked it, I landed back on my base and he kind of like went to like get up, like almost, it almost looked like he went to get up.

I mean, it's a short split second that you have to decide. But like I'm a lion, bro. I have a family to feed. I love that. Hey, I'm not. I love that shit. I love that shit. You've got to think about a guy like Diego Sanchez.

That's what I think about. When anybody wants to stop a fight too soon, I think about a guy like Diego Sanchez. Because Diego Sanchez, you can hit that dude with a meteor. He wants to go out on his shoes. You could hit him with a meteor and he comes running back at you. Even more powerful.

Bites his mouthpiece and starts fucking... Vato style. So if you cracked him, I mean, I think that shin might have knocked out any human being on earth.

But it is possible that a guy... I mean, Diego's been hit with some bombs, goes down, and somehow or another recovers.

Oh, I've cracked him before and we do the same thing. We've done this in his backyard. There's a YouTube video of it. And we just start throwing down, and that's the type of guy Diego is. And he does bring that out in you, man. I've had the funnest times training with Diego Sanchez. I owe him a lot for me being here and getting to the next level.

Him and Josh Neer are like one of my inspirational dudes, and I'm hanging out with these guys when I'm young. And when he had a chance to invite me out and train with him, like, I had the funnest time training with Diego Sanchez. He's a wild man. He's a real wild man. He's the most, in my opinion, the most consistently entertaining fighter, like, maybe ever. I got a question for you. Who would you rather be?

Would you rather be Mike Pierce? Yeah, he's crazy. Would you rather be Mike Pierce? Okay. Or go through what Mike Pierce went through with it. Who's Samar Pahash? You have to live through it. Right.

Or live through what, uh, uh, honey, uh, Jason went through. Well, the thing, Mike, Mike Pierce can heal his knee up. He can get surgically replaced. Nothing tore. Nothing tore. He sprained his knee. You're, you're absolutely right in that situation. When you do deal with the consequences, I think

I would way, way rather be Mike Pierce. Way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way. But the difference is that he has a choice to let those submissions go. It's not like a strike that's in motion during the middle of the contest in absolute legal time.

He connects. Jeremy connects with a perfectly placed shin and then a perfectly placed right hand right afterwards that is that is there's no referee stop in that fight there's no one he knows this motherfucker's tapping he knows the referee's touching him that's where it gets weird where it gets weird is he fucking knows you know he knows I know he knows anybody's ever put a heel hook on anybody ever in their life knows that guy was tapping he knew he was tapping he knew the he was tapping. He knew the ref was stepping in.

He knew the fight was over, and he still held on. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying is when it comes to submissions, right, you see the submission coming. He wraps up his leg. If you watch the fight, the ref is right there. He sees the submission coming. He's right there. He's ready to go.

So as soon as he taps, he goes, okay, stop. And then he held on a little bit long. In these cases, the referee is far away. So if the referee was right next to him, he would stop the fight in that last punch. Well, that's a good argument logically. The problem with that is

that you're dealing with a choice. And when the guy is holding on to a submission, it's a choice. It's not a momentum thing. Let's say there have been fights where a dude knocks someone out. And again, I love the violence. I love it. I'm not saying cut it. I'm just saying you can't knock Russo-Marco Harris because it happens a lot.

When Dan Anderson cracked Bisbing in that situation, there is a chance. I don't know exactly what was going on in Dan Harrison's brain, but there was a shot where he knows he's out, but I'm going to fuck him up one more time. The ref's too far away to stop that shit. You know what I'm saying? Well, he actually talked about it. It's like he kind of knows. He kind of knows.

No, no, he doesn't kind of know. He talked about it in the post-fight press conference. Oh, he did? He said he wanted to shut him up. He said he gave him that last punch to shut him up. But that's all legal because if the referee's not there, that shit's on him. That guy is in survival mode. He's in full war mode.

I agree. I like that. What I'm saying is what happened with Ramar Pahar is exactly the same. It's not. Here's where it would be different. If the referee told him to stop and got in front of him and he pushed the referee aside and still smashed him, that's happened before. Then it would be worse than what Husamar Pahar did because he's sitting a concussed fighter and won the referees or he stopped the contest. This was

just a race and this is in the rules. That guy was talking shit. He decided to crack him. He saw him going down. He's like you know what bitch I'm going to give you one more before the referee gets here. We all know what it was. He was there but the referee was out of position. I know it wasn't exactly the same because I am aware

the ref did stop him. But it was the amount of time. And it's almost like you crack a dude like that and it's happened a bunch. You know, like the fighter. There have been times where a guy gets cracked, he knocks out. He knocks the guys out and goes, I'm not going to hit him again. Stop it, ref. Right, yes.

You know what I mean? You can do that too. Like Machida did to Mark Munoz. So there's a choice there. So there's still a choice. Well, those guys are friends though. Big difference between did to Mark Munoz. So there's a choice there. So there's still a choice. Well, those guys are friends though. Big difference between Machida and Munoz who are friends. Don't get me wrong.

I would rather have the guy get hit one more time. I like when guys get jacked. I like when guys get knocked the fuck out. I enjoy that. Paul Harzman's statement though. This is where I don't agree. That was kind of a stoppage. That could have been questionable, but the guy has done it a couple times.

Yes. That's where it's a problem. So now they're going like, okay, what the heck. But the guy actually made a statement. He goes, I couldn't feel the guy tap because the referee was on me. Now that's a key point where, like, dude, the referee's on you. Like, what are you doing? Well, the referee's just checking to make sure the heel hook is applied correctly.

You know, he's not putting it in your mouth. That's such a goddamn dumb statement if he actually did say that. And he's eating pig's feet so hard. It sucks that he got cut, though. He's always amazing. You know what? Scary guy at 172. Because he doesn't really listen and he enjoys it and he enjoys the reputation of being a guy that rips knees apart because he's done it before.

He had to get cut. I understand why Dana cut him. Cut him for like a year, but you've got to have that animal back. Bring him back. Let him suffer for a year and bring him back. He's always a threat to anybody at any time. Well, especially at 170. There's no other guys like that.

There's no other guys that could jump on you with heel hooks like that. There's nobody doing that. We need that. Sort of, but Dean Lister was never as dynamic as that. Dean Lister fought in the UFC a few times. He never had that kind of crazy, scary performance. Dean isister. We knew that. Sort of, but Dean Lister was never as dynamic as that. Dean Lister fought in the UFC a few times. He never had that kind of crazy, scary performance.

Dean is very, very good, don't get me wrong. He's grappling, he's world class. He's excellent. But Dean never had that kind of appearance in the UFC

where he just attacks someone like a fucking wild animal. He's very explosive and Dean was known as a mauler, like a grizzly bear. He wasn't known as an explosive entity. They were supposed to do a jiu-jitsu match and I

was traveling. I don't think it went down because I think Paula Harris or somebody got hurt but I think Dean Lister would get him. Yeah, Dean's like an intelligent mauler. That's a good way to describe him. Like an intelligent mauler. He's very technical and he just knows exactly where to be in the right position. He's strong as fuck. He's a beast dude

He's crazy He like he'd always tell me he goes cuz I trained with him and he's always like No matter what like even when I'm feel like I'm like in like a horrible position He's like there's many options here Jimmy and sometimes he doesn't even know he'll be like go back there again Do this do that and like he'll be like, okay And then like he'll just come up with something like right there and he'll have an escape for it And he's so he's such a big dude, but he rolls like 125 pounds. He's a bad motherfucker.

It's a real shame that Gene Lister had to go into MMA because I think there should be a real professional jiu-jitsu on television, like on ESPN, the same way they have tennis or the same way they have anything else. Just figure out how to do an Abu Dhabi-style submission-only thing, put it on TV. Jiu-jitsu would be a good base for that to maybe come in the future for maybe a UFC event. But I think jiu-jitsu and submission wrestling would be a solid base. I think just by itself, jiu-jitsu is still very, very exciting.

And there's some guys that are just never going to make that transition to striking. It's like we were talking about with some guys just don't get there. And some guys do, like Fabrizio Verdum or Damian Maia or what have you. Or Mark Munoz, guys who get better and better at striking and become a dangerous threat on their feet as well. But it'd be nice to see them just do what they're awesome at. Why should a soccer player also have to learn how to play baseball? You know what I mean?

Or something right in between, like combat jiu-jitsu is right in between. No striking standing, it's wrestling standing, but on the ground you can punch to the face. It's right in the middle between no-gi grappling and MMA. It's not quite as hardcore as MMA, but it's more exciting because on the ground it'd be less stalling because you could punch to the face. Yeah, Sambo guys, it's almost like old UFC like maybe the violence that people don't want to see so you have like this Russian Sambo dude versus this like Brazilian in the Olympics I think that'd be incredible you know like the wrestling the the jiu-jitsu mix you know yeah it's to be sick

if people but they would they would cross train everybody would cross train nobody would ever do just jiu-jitsu versus Samba let Let's just figure this out, what style is better. Everybody would cross-train. You know, you got to learn other guys' techniques as well. Or you cross-train but not admit it. You know what's really interesting, man, is combat Sambo. Because they're kind of doing MMA, but then they're also doing Judo because they have like Judo kimonos on.

That's another in-between MMA and grappling. That's probably the closest. That's what I'm saying, that those guys would face like a jiu-jitsu guy because back in the early days it was like a boxer versus this. So if we got this in the Olympics, I think everybody from some sort of grappling would want to be like, okay, let's compete with these people. Yeah, and the safety level is amazingly high. When you think about the injury rates in NASascar the injury rates of fucking polo

you know i mean dudes get jacked riding horses man that shit falls all the time horse races guys fall off break their necks get stomped i mean how many of those go a year it's it's but you gotta know when you've had enough right for sure that's probably one of the most important things for a fighter to be aware of every fighter in the gym knows at least one guy that didn't figure it out. Yeah, yeah, that's sad. He has a lot of heart, but at the same time he's kind of stupid. If I felt like I was getting knocked out three times in a row, two times, I would just pay respect to my family.

I'd be like, thank you, UFC, for letting me enjoy this. And this and that, and eventually I would just walk know, eventually open up a gym or something like that. Super hard to admit that, though, that a guy's done. I mean, you know as much as anybody that there's always wonders after a loss. Like, if you'd done something differently, would the fight have played out differently? If you had trained with a different coach, would you have been able to see that coming? If you had done this differently, would that have happened? And those thoughts, they never go away away you never get to a real natural

it's natural to feel those thoughts and yes and wonder because i actually been been clipped before and uh before that time i just thought i was it was almost you know like a mike tyson thing i felt like surreal in there like i could just go in there and brawl and just slug it out you know then eventually oh i actually went to some community like bad problems and stuff and uh I got caught by Eves Edwards you know he's a great dude but honestly I think I could have beat him and I could have played that fight a lot more different I was asking myself man you know it was you know my my weak chin now you know I've been hit with solid shots but that just didn't land so finally I just you know like I just talked to my coaches I talked to a sports psychologist and I just picked myself up, dust myself off.

I knew I was getting better in the gym and the progress. It just wasn't there yet. Again, we started lining things up. Everything started connecting a lot better, and I ended up being a better fighter from it. Now, if I was to continue to – and I still have fun with this, dude. I'm still learning so much. We could probably roll right now, and I'd probably learn something new or just a different way, a different route.

So I love that aspect about fighting. I mean, I'm sitting here talking to you, Rogan, and you too as well. So I'm like, I'm all pumped up. I would have never done this if it wasn't for MMA. So it's changed my life. And the moment I stopped having fun with it and stopped learning, just like Charles Darwin said, the longest you'll survive is the one to adapt to change. And I just totally agree with that. There's some young beasts that's coming in, the longest they'll survive was the one to adapt to change.

And I just totally agree with that. There's some young beasts that's coming in, the UFC. I mean, Sergio Perez, how old is that kid? 20. He just looks sweet. Incredible. Awesome. You know, that type of talent is actually coming in.

So you've got to be able to adapt and adjust. You can't just be the same stand-in-the-pocket type brawler, dude. That's what's going to make you great is that attitude, too, that being in love with the idea of learning things. And one of the beautiful things about MMA and, you know, well, even in jiu-jitsu, it's like you never run out of things in jiu-jitsu.

You never run out of techniques. Now you add striking to that and, you know, and then wrestling to that. It's like there's a never-ending ocean of techniques out there. Bizarre. Are you working on wheel kicks and shit like that and spinning back kicks?

Yeah, yeah. Have you seen his videos of him kicking the bag? Oh, you're hitting spinning back kicks? Yeah. I used to be. I was a Taekwondo black belt. You haven't seen those videos? No, no.

I never see them. I never see them. I knew you did Jiu-Jitsu and stuff. I never knew you did. Yeah. Before I ever did that, I used to teach taekwondo for a living and won a bunch of taekwondo tournaments back in the day. But seriously, seriously, I'm not just saying this,

and everybody knows this. Everyone used to think I was kissing his ass when I would try to tell people, but now there's video, now there's proof. I've never seen anybody throw a turning sidekick as hard as Joe. Is this coming up? Yeah, look at the way he's teaching George. George St. Pierre. I think it's earlier than that.

Show the whole thing. Well, that's one of the interesting things about George. It's before this, before this. Because this is what he's already asking to record. How'd you get involved in fighting, man? You have such a good grasp on things, man. I don't even go to bars and I'll order a pay-per-view dead broke and just to just to hear your commentating though um no well thanks man i really appreciate that um i was uh a taekwondo guy when i was a kid i

won the u.s open i won the massachusetts state championship like four years in a row did that and then i went from that into uh kickboxing i had uh three kickboxing bouts but i was doing that all while i was still doing stand-up comedy and then I went from that into kickboxing. I had three kickboxing bouts, but I was doing that all while I was still doing stand-up comedy. And then I had to figure out what to do because I was starting to lose. I lost my last fight, and I knew I lost because I wasn't in good shape. I was fucking around too much and doing comedy. I wasn't focused. I knew I wasn't training like I was when I was younger,

so I had to make a big decision, and my big decision was abandon all that, that whole world, and just throw myself into comedy. Plus, there was no money, man. There was no UFC. There was nowhere to go. And then, you know, I went from comedy. I was on a television show called News Radio. And from News Radio, I watched the first UFC.

When I was there, it was like, you know, I first saw it, and, like, I think it was, like, probably, like, 95. I probably caught it, like, a year or two after it had started. I had heard about it. And I watched it on a VHS tape. I don't even think I think it was probably like 95. I probably caught it like a year or two after it had started. I had heard about it. And I watched it on a VHS tape. I don't even think I watched the first one. I think I watched UFC 2. Because I think the first one wasn't available for some reasons.

There were some copyright issues or what have you. I don't remember what the exact reality was. But I remember watching Hoist Crazy Strangle the fuck out of everybody going, oh my god. Like I felt, first of all, all my years of Taekwondo, I was like, oh, I'm helpless. Like I thought I was just going to kick dudes in the head. You know, and then I'm like, I didn't even realize a guy could just manhandle me like that.

So I went to Carlson Gracie's place in like 96. I started training there. That was back when Vitor was making his debut. They used to call him Victor. They used to call him Victor Gracie. Like when I interviewed him on UFC 12, I called him Victor Gracie. That's crazy. That's what everybody called him.

And then he was getting sued by Horian or something like that, so he had to drop the Gracie name. But he was taking it because of Carlson. So that's when I started. And then I met Eddie in probably like 98. I started at Jean Jacques. 97. 97?

Yeah. I met Eddie around there, and I started smoking weed about 99. No, 2001. Was it 2001? It was before Fear Factor, though. Yeah, that was before Fear Factor. Was it? But Fear Factor was 2001?

Yeah, you had a calm demeanor on there. I remember this one time, because I knew you were like- It was 2000. It was 2000. Big fight guy, and then the way there was this guy having this attitude and this crazy, and you're like, whoa, whoa, bro. Like, chill out. And the guy tried to come at you.

Oh, a fear factor one? Yeah, and you just had a calm demeanor. And I was like, man, Joe's a pretty cool dude. You could just tell. You'd be like, man, Joe would have messed him up, actually. Well, that guy, I was told about him before we ever did the show. They were telling me that this guy's kind of a loose cannon. He had attacked a counselor on one show, and he had threw his wife to the ground on another show. Like, he was kind of crazy. Why'd they allow him in the show, they were telling me that this guy's kind of a loose cannon. He had attacked a counselor on one show, and he

threw his wife to the ground on another show. Why'd they allow him in the show, man? It's fun. It's exciting. They knew, well, it worked. Him and his wife were fucking screaming at each other. They were like screaming like, you fucking stupid bitch. It was like, it was really entertaining

because it was like the most dysfunctional and violent relationship I've ever witnessed without being like there. Like these motherfuckers screamed at each other in swears. And all the time while this is going on, there's this little dude, Johnny Fairplay from Survivor, who's fucking hilarious. The whole time they're screaming at each other, where's the fucking flashlight? I gave you the fucking flashlight. Where's the flashlight? Fuck you!

Screaming at each other. I gave you the fucking flashlight. Where's the flashlight? Fuck you! Screaming at each other. Johnny Fairplay is yelling at the guy about the wife, telling him, you don't need her. She's dead weight.

She's ruining it for you. He's like, you don't need her, Jonathan. She's dead weight. She's ruining it for you. And he would say that about her. He would say that about him. He was just constantly heckling. Constantly heckling. Like, you guys got this wrapped up.

You guys got it wrapped up. Fuck you. Shut up. So she comes back and immediately punches this guy, Johnny Fairplay. I mean, fucking punches him hard in the stomach. And I said, hey, just because you hit your husband doesn't mean you can hit other people. You can't just hit people. And so then he got in my face. I thought he gonna hit me so i just grabbed him it was like i pushed him away a

couple times they didn't show that and then uh next thing you know i got him in the plum i just held on to his head don't show this man i don't want to yeah pull it up no it was so stupid it was so stupid so you just tell that dude was a straight hothead and the way you handled it i was like man this guy obviously has some type of martial arts self-control, you know? So you're working on a lead leg sidekick, like Conor McGregor? You ever do that one? Oh, I mean, that's been around a lot more since Conor McGregor. I wouldn't give him the credit for it, but I mean, I work with him.

Chris Hazeman, remember, way back? Yeah, not too many people. I mean, who else besides Conor McGregor? No, I'm talking about in MMA. Like, who was throwing that lead leg sidekick? Like, Jon Jones did it. Jon Jones does it to the knee, which is very like... Jon dropped Vitor to the body.

He hit him with a front leg sidekick to the body and dropped Vitor. Remember that? Yeah, it's cool to see that. And I also use, like, a lot of stuff because I train with Alex Gustafson. And he uses a lot of, like, real trickery stuff. Like, he'll get, like, hip to hip with you, you like where you're standing and then he'll just go hip to hip and then like just sweep you and just kind of kind of almost makes you look stupid sometimes he's got that Dominic Cruz uh uh style down yeah yeah you know on your he I mean he he purposely

emulated Dominic Cruz that's not a coincidence right that they move the same I just think he's just light on the same coaches you can't You can't stand in front of them. Yeah, for sure. Because he is doing that dance. Is that Eric Del Fierro? Yeah, he's constantly talking about being on your toes, being athletic. Smart dude. No smart dude.

That's a very distinct style. Very distinct. I mean, shit, very few people can do that. And Gustafsson is pulling it off. You know who moves around like that but doesn't attack enough? It's Tim Elliott. Did you see Tim Elliott this weekend? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Got great footwork, man. I think best is still yet to come with that guy. Yes, I think so, too. That kid is stupid strong. He's from Midwest area. Holy shit. I forgot that fight. Was that super prelims?

It was first fight of the pay-per-view. Oh, the two little guys. Yes. I fast-forwarded through that one. It was a good fight, man. Big puncher, strong wrestler, a lot of movement. You can see him definitely being a 35er in the future The two little guys. Yes. I fast-forwarded through that one. It's a good fight, man. Big puncher, strong wrestler, a lot of movement. Yeah.

I can see him definitely being a 35er in the future that people are going to start looking after. You think he'll be 35? They're fighting 25. Oh, he's 25? Yeah, yeah. Those are flyweights. Oh, he's a big 25er. Yeah. Yeah, you know who I'm a fan of, of the 125 pounds that I really want?

You know, a lot of respect for Demetrius Johnson. That guy's obviously talented. But Joseph Benavidez, bro, I'm a fan of that little bastard. He just gets down, bro. He just throws heat the whole time. He's technical. I mean, he sets things up. I like his style.

I've never seen that dude in a boring fight. And this is a perfect example of what you were talking about before, about someone putting together a training camp. Now they've got Bang Ludwig, who's running their whole camp. And he runs Alpha Male in San Jose. No, where are they? Sacramento. Yeah. Sacramento. And all those guys. Like, look at Chad Mendes. and he runs alpha male and in San Jose no where Sacramento yeah Sacramento and all those guys like look at Chad Mendes look at how much better he got from there you know look look at how much better everybody's gotten from from that

camp and Benavidez and Mighty Mouse they're gonna have a rematch on Fox that's the the main event on Fox and then Sacramento Danny Castillo he's a he's a friend of mine out there. He's a 55er. He's fighting a good, talented striker, Barboza. So I'm interested to see how Dwayne Bang and Alpha Male come up with a strategy. Because I like Castillo. He's a good dude. He throws down.

He's getting better. And now they have Dwayne up there showing a lot of cool stuff. That dude's a vet. That strategy for the Barboza fight, if I had to guess, is probably going to be take that dude down. Yeah, you got to set it up. But Jamie Varner caught him.

Yeah, he set up a lot of wrestling. He set up a take down before, yeah. And then he thought he was going to go low and then caught him high. Jamie's got that long right hand, too. Yeah. He launches that right hand at you. Throws a lot of it in it.

It covers a lot of distance, too. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like a Koscheck back in the day, but Koscheck would wing his a little bit more. Now you're seeing guys throw the straight right hand and catch guys before they're able to hit the hook on them and they'll catch that chin sometimes and put dudes to sleep. Yeah, the way Varner completes that right hand is very straight.

It's very straight down the back. He landed that all through his setups. He was smart that time. He immediately came out, take Barboza down. You know Barboza's going to get up. So what does he do the next time? Acts like he's going to go down. Of course you've got to respect it because the guy just took you down.

Boom, right hand. Yeah, I'm a big fan of Jamie Varner. I love a dude who was a champion at one point in time, was WEC champion, and then went through a bad streak where he was losing to guys he should never lose to, lost his motivation, was going back to college, and then all of a sudden gets it back together again. He's a vet, man.

He goes world class again. You realize, you realize, shit, what choice do you have? You're going to go back to regular life? You're a superstar. You're on TV. It's right there at your fingertips. You just got to get a couple training camps together. It's right there.

Celebrity status and not waking up and working at a factory or something what else are you gonna do you got to keep going you got to look at it as like you know what maybe i won't you know if you could look at it realistically like maybe i won't get the belt but i'm gonna fucking try my hardest and then in the meantime i'm not gonna work a regular fucking job i'm gonna try to parlay this into some other shit. They miss the excitement. A regular day job is just a slow drone, drone,

drone. I was 18 years old and I worked and it was horrible. My grandfather told me to quit a job. I was kind of skeptical. My old old girlfriend at the time, I remember one time I had to stay at her, you know, and I was kind of skeptical. And then I was, my old, old girlfriend at the time, like, I remember one time I had to stay at her parents' house just because I was, like, believing

in this dream. And I was just starting out. I didn't really have much. I struggled a lot. And then I remember her dad was just like, you know, fighting doesn't pay the bills. I remember just, like, looking at this guy like, man, this guy's really trying to shit on my dream, you know. What'd you just do? Okay, I went away.

Oh, was it, uh... I don't think it was your phone. Was it went away. Oh, was it, uh... It was some weird feedback. I don't think it was your phone. Was it your phone? Oh, is that what it was? I thought it was a feedback thing. Um, yeah, man, it's a fucking crazy dream to believe in, right? Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's got its ups and downs, man, and I can imagine, like,

all the crazy crap, you know, Varner and, like, half these guys, he's probably like, man, you know, what the hell? And he was scared to death. He admitted it. He was scared to death of Barboza. I mean, but especially Barboza. That guy's a killer. Dude, he's a human, man, what the hell? And he was scared to death. He admitted it. He was scared to death of Barboza. I mean, but especially Barboza. That guy's a killer. Dude, he's a human highlight reel. He's like, holy shit.

Jamie Varner said he was shaking before the fight. Barboza coming off of that Terry Adam knockout, one of the worst knockouts ever in the UFC. I trained with that guy a long time ago down in Florida through Hermes Franca, who I was hanging out with back in the day. And we went to the armory, and we trained with Barboza, and I just remember just his Muay Thai was really, really good. And I was just like, man, was this guy fighting? This guy should be fighting here.

And I was already in UFC at the time, and I guess they're like, yeah, he's working on his ground or whatever, and he's really good striking, and he's working on his wrestling, he's an explosive athlete, and he's a big 55er too, man. That guy's a beast. Yeah, the weight cuttingcutting thing is really fascinating because when most people hear that a guy fights at 155 pounds or you fight at 145 pounds, they assume you're actually 145 pounds.

Yeah, they're like, man, you don't look 145. They're like, Jesus. How the fuck does that work? Like I said, Tyrone Woodley's the best example of that. There's no way that dude looks to be 170 pounds. He's just dense, bro. I don't know what the hell he weighs when he gets in the octagon. I may be crazy, but I think he's going to,

him and Hector Lombard are just going to take over the top, I think. Anyway, that's just what I'm saying. Hey, you know, that would be an amazing fight. Hector Lombard versus Tyron Woodley. Holy shit. Dude, they're both American top teams, dude. Yeah, they probably never would fight, or they wouldn't fight until it became absolutely terrible.

You know, then you got Tiago Alves coming back, dude. Tiago Alves, we're probably soon to see him scrap again. Yeah, I probably never would fight, or they wouldn't fight until it became absolutely terrible. Then you got Tiago Alves coming back, dude. Tiago Alves, we're probably soon to see him scrap again. Yeah, I hope so. I love that dude. He's a great guy, fun to watch, exciting fighter, but he's had an unfortunate series of injuries. Yeah. Knee surgery, pec surgery. You know who impressed the shit out of me is Donald Cerrone.

Holy shit. The fight with Evan Dunham, the coolest thing about that was Evan Dunham, he deep halves him perfectly, gets on top, gets put in a triangle, escapes the triangle, goes right into an omoplata, gets the omoplata sweep with the pass.

Donald Cerrone's inside control, just some amazing, beautiful jiu-jitsu. They get back up, they throw down again, Dunham ends up on his back again, hits him with another deep half sweep. He gets on top right into another triangle, but this time he finishes him. That was some serious, serious jiu-jitsu right there.

Cerrone's thinking about, I heard him talking about going down 145 pounds, and I've actually fought Cerrone, and he ended up breaking my eye orbital in the first round. You know, it wasn't like he hit real hard. You know, I was feeling his kicks, but it was just a precise shot. You know, Cerrone's Muay Thai, man, when he's on, he's on, dude. He's a scary dude.

He's a big dude at 155 pounds. And for him to go down to 145, I'm like, man. I wonder how he's going to do that. He's so thin. Dude, he is a big dude. If he can make it and reload the right way, and I imagine that he probably will if he has a, you know, he's training with Jackson, so he's got a good camp and good team behind him.

I don't think he's going to drop. I think that was a rumor. I think I read somewhere where he said, no, I talked about it, but it ain't going to happen. Usually people talk about cutting after they lose. He just beat the shit out of Evan Dunham. Damn, he looked good too. Evan Dunham had a brief window. He had a brief window he could have pulled out of that triangle where he's taking a little

break there, and that's when he just locked it up. Evan Dunham is a brief window. He had a brief window he could have pulled out of that triangle where he's taking a little break there, and that's when he just locked it up. Evan Dunham is a tough motherfucker, dude. Yeah, he is. And to tap him is, like, even more impressive. No, I trained with him when we were out at Dominic Cruz's camp with Uriah Faber when they were competing on the show. Team Alliance was always over at Drysdale's, and I got a chance to roll with Evan Dunham and do it.

He was ferocious on the ground. Yeah, he was very good. When he tapped Efrain Escudero, that was a real wake-up call for a lot of people. This kid's ground game is very good. Gerald Streban actually called me right before Evan Dunham made his UFC debut. I didn't know anything about him, just one of those dudes you never heard of. Gerald said, there's a guy named Evan Dunham. I think he fought.

I forget who he fought, but he said, trust me, put all your money on Evan Dunham. I think he fought, I forget who he fought, but he said, trust me, put all your money on Evan Dunham. I just rolled with him all week. The guy has trashed me. And Gerald's awesome. But Evan Dunham, so I thought, okay, okay, I believe it. Yeah, when he fought Tyson Griffin, one of his training partners, I thought that was really good because Tyson Griffin's real solid on the ground too.

And that fight, Dunham just had this back control that was crazy and controlled the fight with just all back control. So you know his jiu-jitsu is on top point. Yeah, he's very good, man. I just was completely blown away by how good Cerrone looked. Cerrone was just on fire. Dude, when he's on fire, he's on fire. I think maybe he had a little personal issues that fight fight with uh dos anjos and uh you know he just bounced back you know and serrani's one of those guys who

likes to stay active and get after it so it's interesting to see what he's going to do yeah fuck yeah it's going to be really interesting um what did you think about the main event me personally i think hendrix won i think he completed all all of what the octagon rules are about you know damage octagon control. You know, he landed takedowns. He busted up his face. He controlled the fight. He made it a great fight.

He almost knocked him out. And then, you know, at the end of the day, GSP won, and that's the decision. But I think a lot of better things are going to come from that because Dana White's immediately calling out these judges and probably getting things going on that end. So it'll be interesting to see what happens, but I think he needs a rematch. I think you're right about the judges. I think there's also not just the judges, but the judging, when you look at the scoring system that's currently in place, is not that crazy. The judging is not that crazy. It's not that off, at least this fight.

But the scoring system's terrible. The scoring system's terrible crazy. It's not that off, at least this fight. But the scoring system's terrible. The scoring system's terrible. It doesn't work. When you can have a round like the second round, where Hendricks had GSP in all sorts of trouble, and that round and the first round are scored exactly the same, they're both 10-9, one way or another on either judge's scorecard. That's crazy. Those are not the same rounds. One round you had a good struggle that I think, you know, one guy did more damage, but one guy went for a submission. It's a sort of debatable 10-9 round. But the second round was Johnny Hendricks clanging George, has him wobbled, has him in all sorts of trouble, Johnny swarming on him. How the fuck are those two rounds

quantifiably the same? That's preposterous. They gotta fix that. If they don't fix that... You say that, but I think this may at least in some way motivate the conversation. I think if

time goes on, if MMA lasts 20 years, if we're lucky, they're going to figure out that the system needs to be overhauled. And this idea of 10 points every round is fucking silly. We're acting like there's a thing in place that we have to follow for a new

sport. And that's fucking stupid. You never know. There's no consistency with these judges. One thing I did not want to do in Brazil was go to a decision. I was like, if this is close, they're going to give it to him. When I went up and I had a close fight with Sam Stout, I thought they were going to give it to him. I was like, man, you know what?

You did everything. I knew in my heart I won the fight. You know, thankfully I ended up getting that fight. So close. When they're close fights. Yeah, close fights. Phil Davis, I thought, beat Lyoto Machida two out of three rounds. That was a very big controversial fight.

And then people were just like, no, Lyoto won. You know, that decision down there, like in Brazil, that's scary, bro. You know, you're like, oh, my God, is he going to get this? I have to watch that again because I thought that Machida won. I would have to see it again. But he got the decision. But, yeah, that's not a robbery. You know, that's a close fight.

The problem with the Hendrix-GSB fight is, let's say people that are watching it that are MMA fans that may not even train. They just enjoy the fights. They enjoy the excitement of the sport. To them, GSP got his ass kicked. For sure. It's pretty goddamn obvious. So the only way he didn't get his ass kicked is if the scoring system is broken. Because to the average person, what is a fight about?

Is a fight about touching a guy? Is a fight about putting a guy on his back and winding up on top of him? What is a fight about? A fight is about doing damage. One way or another or trying to finish the fight and one guy clearly did that way more than the other guy. For sure. Johnny didn't have a scratch on his face. If we're on the street

and that fight was to go down, and after a while everybody breaks it up, no matter who's on top, whatever happened, big fight, we stand up Johnny, we stand up GSP, and we're like, okay, we'll give that one to Johnny on the street. But also, that could happen accidentally. Someone could hit somebody with an elbow, cut them open real early in the fight,

and even though they dominated the rest of the round, they looked the worst for rare. That's possible too. True, true. You've got to take in hand what actually went down. How was he doing that damage? What was he doing? And it looked like Johnny was actually doing the damage,

not just he got a lucky punch and his eye got swollen. That could easily happen. But he was landing shot after shot and pushing a good pace where GSP was even wobbled, and he's just laying on him. So, I mean, obviously you think if anybody was not even like a fan or like your grandma was watching, she'd be like, wow, I think this guy's winning. The most shocked and disappointed guy I think maybe I've ever seen

after a fight was Johnny Hendricks Saturday night. He was, hey, bravo, breathing. It's crazy. Oh, really? He's going to sleep so good tonight. Get in it. You get in it. Joe, you know earlier when it echoed and you got mad?

It's because I was going to echo his breathing to make it echo so. Don't lie. That's ridiculous. And he accidentally talked. Shit. He fucked it up. That's ridiculous. Yeah, man.

I think that if you look at the scoring system that's in place and how it's been utilized so far, I could see the argument. I don't agree with it, but I could see the argument that GSP won the fight. I don't think he won the first round. Everybody was thinking that he won the first round because he went for the submission and got the takedown, but Johnny did a lot of damage in that round. He fucked his legs up with those knees to the legs,

which I don't understand why people don't count those. Like, what are you looking at? It's a big strike. That's like a Charlie horse. I don't know if you guys have been hitting the leg, or like you look at one of those slug bugs and somebody hit you, you're like, man, that's a knee hitting you. It's a lot harder.

Just because GSP's not responding doesn't mean those aren't big shots. He just can tolerate the pain. Those hurt like fuck. And those are damaging. They take away your spring. And so, in my opinion, you've got people that should not be judging that, that don't understand what exactly is going down. Johnny did a lot more damage in that round.

He hit him with some hard fucking elbows when they were up against the cage. When George was trying to take him down, he had the single. Johnny hit him with some hard fucking elbows. And then when they were in the clinch, when Johnny was bouncing up and down on one leg, he was tagging him with left uppercuts. Those are all really significant. Huge shots, big shots. Yeah, the takedown and the submission attempt, it wasn't close enough. It wasn't like Johnny was screaming and beat red and then he gutted out of it like you could see him on his back and he's getting strangled. It wasn't close enough. It wasn't like Johnny was screaming and beat red and then he gutted out of it like you can see

him on his back and he's getting strangled. It wasn't close enough. In my opinion, I gave Hendrix that round. Yeah, when I watch it, when I'm doing commentary and I watch it, it's one thing. When I watch it again afterwards, that's when I get a sense of what I think actually happened and didn't

happen. Sometimes you're doing commentary, you're just trying to be entertaining, you're all caught up in the moment, but... Why do you suppose nothing has been done? I mean, this isn't the first time we've had a main event and a controversial decision. Why do you think it just doesn't change? I know, because the Athletic Commission has to admit that they made a mistake. Do you believe the theory that you really should beat a champion?

No. No. Because there's a lot of those ones with Frankie Edgar, Benson Henderson. I don't. I think it's an even fight. And some people are like, oh, you really got to take it from the champion to be the champion. I can see how you got to have a conviction. Look, any decision that's close, you're going to have people that see it for the other guy.

That's always going to be the case. And in that way, the idea of you got to take it from the champion kind of makes sense. That's the only way it makes sense. To convince the people that this is a fair and just decision, even if you're not happy that the guy that you were rooting for lost, you still have to, you know, you still have to look at it

honestly and objectively. Guy got his ass kicked, that's the fact. You're like, okay, here's a perfect example. Second round of frankie edgar bj penn okay the first fight was a close fight second fight not second round second fight the first fight was a close fight whereas very debatable second fight nobody was debating that frankie beat bj he beat bj period so i think when you look at him really out he outworked him he was more motivated he was in better shape pushed a hard a hard pace. That's a fight where BJ Penn has fucking millions of fans.

They couldn't deny the fact that BJ lost that fight. True. So in that kind of fight, yeah, I could see that's one of those fights where you're really taking it to him, even though Frankie was the champ at that time. But I think that you should start even. You should start even. For sure. You've got to earn it, definitely.

I think even GSP's face told it all. And it's crazy. Actually, one of our buddies, Mike Chandler, just fought Eddie Alvarez in a sick fight. Saw that fight. And it was just crazy. Mike was just going forward. He's landing takedowns. He's getting out of stuff.

He's controlling these rounds. And then such a close decision where at the end of it, if you look at this, Eddie Alvarez's family looks worried. They're not hugging. And Michael Chandler's family is like, yeah. And, you know, they're thinking confident. But then, boom, there's this decision. You're just like, whoa.

You got to go back and, like, look at things like, okay, what happened? Maybe something I didn't see, you know, in my bias, you know. Right. It's just those crazy fights, you know. I need to watch that fight a second time. I enjoyed it, though. It was a wild fight. Chandler's? I need to watch that fight a second time. I enjoyed it, though. It was a wild fight. Chandler's a bad motherfucker.

Dude, he's a beast. So is Alvarez. He's like that in the gym. So is Alvarez. So you think nothing changes because then that would mean the commission would have to admit they made a mistake? Yes. If you change things, you have to admit that you should have changed things. So you have to admit that if you're running things, if this is the correct way to do things, why didn't you do this 18 months ago?

Why didn't you do this two years ago? Why didn't you do this two years ago? Why didn't you do this five years ago? You've been licensing MMA for so long, and people have been complaining about things for so long, but you've done the same shit over and over again. So then it's probably never going to change. That's like the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. They can't have people that are untrained as judges. Is it better or worse for the casinos, the people that are taking bets, is it better or worse if there is a logical, reasonable scoring system

or if there's a fucked up one? What do you think is better for them? Well, if the casinos are on the board and everything is on the square, then the house is always going to win in almost every game. When it comes to gambling on fights, they're pretty smart. I'm sure they get really good odds makers. There was a few lines that I didn't like. I gave a few of my friends that were betting.

I told them what I thought were good bets and not good bets. But I think that ultimately the experts of MMA, you're not going to be able to fool them. They know who's going to win or they have a 70, 80% chance at who's going to win. Way better than 51%. If the house is a 51% chance or 54%, whatever it is, in blackjack, an MMA expert has a way better... If you're gambling, if you were gambling on fights, shit, you're going to be 80%, right? You think about 80% when you guess who's going to win a fight? Sometimes. Sometimes I get them all wrong.

But do you think there's ever been a point in time in Las Vegas where the people that are running the casinos, who the fuck knows who they are, have something to do with the commission? Like they're tied in somehow? And was there a fight, do you think, ever that the casinos made a decision happen because they didn't want to lose a certain amount of money? That's all speculation. Who knows? You think that ever happens?

I don't know. I'll tell you one thing I do know about casinos. They're not stupid. If they catch people counting cards, they get rid of them. If they catch people doing things like, here's a perfect example. Professional pool. They've never had a line on professional pool. You know why?

Because they had a line on professional pool once. And the underdog was this dude named Mike LeBron to win this big tournament. And so they dumped the shit out of this dude. Everybody dumped this dude, meaning everybody quit. They played shitty on purpose and let this dude win. And they bet all their money on this guy winning. So everybody just had this. Dudes were just driving balls straight into the rail.

They were missing the pocketbook inches on purpose, totally on purpose, obviously on purpose. And the other dude. You can't deny a casino. It's trial and error. You can't actually deny a casino. It's just like people that are up there, that are

highly elite people, they know how to make good decisions. No matter what it is, they're winning for a reason. That's because they're making good decisions and taking advantage of those people that are trying to cut the scheme. You think there might be a crazy conspiracy where the people running the casinos have something to do? Every now and then

they make the call and they go, that motherfucker lost no matter what. If it's close. You think there's anything like that? I think they just play their odds. I don't think you go to the casino. They play their odds very good. But someone at the top is making... For a judge to get paid off to do

this or that there's got to be someone with some serious power it's the math that people don't understand that's why those people that are counting cards they understand a portion of the math you got to think those people are at an elite level and are always winning because of their decision making so their their science and their math like skills are way better than yours so they can see these small little snakes in the grass if if that's what you want to call them, like a little dirt bag trying to just scheme on your money. Imagine if that's yours and you see this little rat over here playing his little game.

You just want to go up and smack him. Like, bro, you're cheating me on. Yeah, but it's not even cheating. He's just good at it. It's so stupid that you can't count. He caught on to the science of the math. Yeah, but I mean, how crazy is that? They tell you you can't be really good at this.

You can't be good at it. You can't figure out how to do it right. Because they're playing it to the people that are just like, man, am I mean, how crazy is that? They tell you you can't be really good at this. You can't be good at it. You can't figure out how to do it right. They're playing it to the people that are just like, man, am I going to get lucky? Imagine that, man. It's like only fighting guys you can absolutely beat. Could you imagine? You'd never get a title shot. The idea is ridiculous.

It's not like the battle between the card counters and the casinos. That shit never goes down. It's not really, you know, they make sure those guys can't work they're like nah sorry we're just here to steal we're just here to extract yeah we're not here to gamble to actually gamble or it's not even gambling when a guy gets like really good at poker or really good at blackjack it kind of becomes like these those dudes just make money man the really best dudes they just make money they make a big risk, they lose a little bit here and again,

but for the most part, they wind up ahead. There's a lot of those guys that are like professional gamblers. Do they, what do they, what happens? Do these guys just get funded or are they just playing

in a basement? Where do these dudes come from? It's crazy because like, next thing you know, you just see this guy on TV and you're like, man, does this guy even know anything?

But all of a sudden, it shows like the chip or the money account and you're like, this dude's killing it. Well, think about it this way. Think about how much money it shows the chip or the money count, and you're like, this dude's killing it. Think about how much money it would, I mean, how much time and effort you put

in to get really good at MMA. Now think about someone who's doing the same thing with card counting or with poker. They're just constantly playing moves over there. You ever see poker dorks talk? You ever have a poker dork conversation with people where they start talking about, I had five night, and and he pulls king six and i flop yeah he has like a

pig latin i don't know what the fuck you're saying but but to them it's just it's almost like a chess thing they're like they're going over the moves like oh i see well why didn't you fold you know like why didn't you you know why didn't you this why didn't you this why and they're they're going over positions and i got a bad roll of the cards. I believe in the bad roll of the cards, though. You ever sat down on like a blackjack table, and then that person's always hitting when they shouldn't be hitting or not hitting, and you're just like, I got to get up.

I just lost 75 bucks to realize this guy's an idiot, and he's messing up the whole table. But you get on that table, and you're just hitting, and you're rolling, you're slapping high fives with some person from Arizona you don't even know, and you're just killing it. It's crazy. Explain that to me. See, I don't know gambling. So if we're all playing, say you, me, and Eddie are

playing blackjack together, and Eddie gets crazy and he just fucking... He's got a 20. Hit me! This is a fucking one, bitch. Say I have a low card, like I'm at a 9, and he's hitting on a sixteen To try to get to twenty one Cause he wants to beat the guy

You know You're supposed to let that just pass And let me Go ahead and hit Hit and hit the bigger number Instead he'll bust And ruin my card Next thing you know

Like I'll hit like two low cards And I'm like okay I'm at like a twelve But they're showing like a fifteen Sixteen two I gotta hit And then boom I bust

And it just kind of Goes down the line. But if you get the people that are hitting on the right cards, that'll actually feng shui and flow. Really? Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. It seems like he's making his decisions,

you're making your decisions. It's like those Bud Light commercials. The guy goes downstairs and they score. But aren't they using like five decks now? They're like five decks. I don't even know how many they use. They use a bunch. They have that big machine that was like...

So the way you're looking at it is if he gets a five that you could have used, and he busts because of that five, he fucked you, you could have had that five, and you would have had 20 or something like that, right? And then the dealer might have busted, and he could have actually won, but he actually hit the wrong card trying to be greedy too soon. I think that's not a good way of looking at it. I think that's like a defeatist logic because it doesn't make any sense. Like, look, the numbers are the numbers.

If you have 15 and you hit, you know, you know what the consequences are. If you have 17 and you hit, you're crazy. There's some good ones that you're supposed to hit on and that they tell you not to hit on. And sometimes the dealer, if you don't really know what you're doing, you're just starting out, and they'll be like, you sure you want to do that? But they can't tell you, but they'll ask you and stop you, which is pretty cool because what if you don't know what you're doing? You're just blacked out drunk and you're making all stupid bets and lose your money.

Well, I would imagine, too, that if you were a card counter, it would actually help you to have someone who's betting all fucking wacky next to you because you know that he got that certain card. betting all fucking wacky next to you because you know that he got that certain card. Instead of him folding or holding, he actually added additional information into the equation. He gave you like, oh, the seven just got used. So now you have an extra number that you can eliminate.

You know what I mean? It seems to me that playing with idiots would be beneficial if you had the right attitude. It could possibly work out, yeah, I guess. If you were a card counter, if you were a really good card counter and again i don't understand how the fuck card counting works so i'm just talking about there's a movie about it but i still never it's it's a hard math yeah it's a math to it ed norton right yeah it's it's a crazy it's a crazy math to it that's i don't know no no i think it was uh no that's okay that's a didn't they rob the casino

they robbed the casino there's always a card counter in those movies no? yeah there's a lot Brad Pitt there's a lot of those movies

where the dude busts Vegas yeah figures it out all these genius what movie was it where there's a bunch of genius card counters

there's a college that they numbers and the guy takes him there and he wasn't supposed to be in the building yeah you guys wanna do this?

They all got a suite together and they're rolling around in cash but it all goes bad, Eddie Bravo. They get busted. Someone, some fucking...

If you knew how to count cards, would you rob the system? What? If you knew a little bit, like say you knew the math and you just sit down and you're like, you know what,

I just want a couple extra hundred real quick, you know? And then would you sit down and do it? Or would you just be scared? I thought I had a system but I didn't realize that i was an idiot and i was going to try to make some money in tahoe and then i realized oh shit how much did you lose before you figured out you suck well it's just it's like 21 you know in uh in roulette

you know you there's red you can just bet red and black you could put chips on the numbers or you could just put chips under red and black yeah so i figured chips on the numbers or you could just put chips on the red and black. So I figured that if you put, you know, if you have a lot of cash, you put $500 on red. If you lose, you just keep putting,

you keep doubling it until finally red hits. But you gotta have a lot of money to double, but there's a limit. So they already figured that out a long time ago. So they limit you

that you can't do that shit. So I thought I had it. I didn't realize that they already figured it out. So I'm in Tahoe. I'm going to do this shit. I'm just going to win once, win 500 bucks and then I'm done. That could be an expensive method though. You better come with some stacks. Yeah, you've got to have like $10,000.

And then if you hit, that would be so awesome. Just walk away. Yeah, you've got to walk away. The key is to walk away when you get your $500 back. So every day. Everybody's thought this through. It's hilarious. How many conversations

have been had across the country and people figured out I got it, bro. I was telling people I got it, bro. I got it. But I'm not going to get crazy.

It's just going to be $500 a day. It's a system to get but you could live nicely. Once a day, you just got to It's interesting. If you won $500 a day, they would fucking kick you out. They'd be like, get out of here, bitch. You got to keep switching casinos, bro just gotta... What's interesting, if you won $500 a day, they would fucking kick you out.

They'd be like, get out of here, bitch. You gotta keep switching casinos, bro. Yeah, that's the move, right? But if you can't win in, they offer you stuff to keep you in that environment. Free hotel, baby. Free hotel, they might bring some pretty girls over, too. They give you a bottle of champagne. You're the man. Next thing you know, you're broke

two days later. I love Vegas. I love the idea behind Vegas. Just let people do whatever the fuck they want. Let them gamble. It's a good decision-making. Stay open. Stay open 24 hours a day. Yeah, let them drink. Walk down the street with alcohol.

Fuck yeah. I like it. I like Vegas. I like the freedom of Vegas. You need people like, yeah, there's some seedy parts. There's seedy parts everywhere. If you get 100 people together, one of them is going to suck. It's good to have fights there, too.

Yeah, fuck yeah. It's too hot to live though too hot to be if you were like rolling ball and like carrot top and you had some giant mansion in Henderson you know keep your bitches have a giant mansion in Henderson does it pull it is fucking is he rich fuck yeah he's not like Corey Feldman no he's got a long-standing show in Vegas at the Luxor. So he's got like $10 million. Carrot Top has been performing at the Luxor for a long time.

Don't look at that. I thought he was like a Vanilla Ice kind of guy. No way, dude. Carrot Top has been a successful performer in Vegas for more than a decade. He's been killing it. He's been there for a while. Killing it in Vegas for a decade. And he puts on a great show.

You know, a lot of people give Carrot Top a lot of shit. But look, there's people that like the monkeys and there's people that like Slayer. Everybody's got their own thing they enjoy. And if you like that kind of comedy, Carrot Top's a funny dude. And he's basically essentially taken over that entire market. What exactly does he do? Magic? Prop comics. He's a prop comedian. He's had a bunch of props.

They used to be a style of prop. Prop comedy used to be a style of comedy. There was puppet guys or ventriloquists. There was guys who would do impressions. And there was prop comics. There was a style of comedy. It's not anymore because Carrot Top was so dominant. He was so big. He was the biggest prop comic

of all time. Gallagher's a prop comic. Yeah, but Gallagher's a fake prop Yeah but Gallagher's like a fake prop comic Like he smashes fruit and shit It's a little different I shouldn't say fake I would say he's got his own branch of prop comedy That he owns as well If you went on stage and tried to smash watermelons

They'd be like Bitch are you fucking kidding me You can't steal from him That's Gallagher's shit You can't smash fruit What about Andrew Dice Clay He's hilarious The man huh Does he still make a lot of money from him. That's Gallagher shit. He can't smash fruit. What about Andrew Dice Clay? He's hilarious.

The man, huh? Does he still make a lot of money? He never really promised, but he just had the swagger of like, just coolness around him, you know? He's hilarious. Oh! We've had him on the podcast a couple of times. Nice. We went to see him in Vegas.

I saw him back at his height, live, man. I was a massive... Where was Dice Clay? A big place? Either Pacific Amphitheater or down in Orange County during his height. Oh my God. He did some insane

amount of theaters across the country, like more than any comedian ever. Really? Yeah, he's probably the most successful comedian of all time,

like as far as like money. More than George Lopez? Cool dude at the right time. He just came through the right era and just smashed it. He just had the perfect act. He had an act that you could play back.

That was the thing about his act. You didn't mind if you knew the jokes. It's almost like music. If you want to go see the Rolling Stones, you don't want to have your new song, bitch. Come on with that new song. Get it out of the way. You got a new song. You don't want new shit.

I want to hear Start Me Up. Get back to the classics. Comedy, you got to have new shit. Yeah, comedy, you have to have new shit, except Dice Clay. Dice Clay, what's in the bowl, bitch? Oh! The whole crowd would sing it along as if they were at a music show. The Hickory Dickory Dock.

Yeah, it's a different thing. He's killed it. It was a different thing. He figured out something different or stumbled upon something different, but that something different became massive. People wanted to say those rhymes. They wanted to hear those rhymes. Little boy blue.

Oh, he needed the money. And the whole crowd would sing it along. What's his act like nowadays? I haven't heard it. Hilarious. Dude, he almost seemed like he was just keeping it real. He doesn't give a fuck. He's worth a ton of money.

He's got a hot wife. There's very few people that legitimately doesn't give a fuck. He's worth a ton of money. He's got a hot wife. There's very few people that legitimately don't give a fuck. Andrew Dice Clay legitimately doesn't give a fuck. Still smokes a ton

of cigarettes. Still wears fucking weightlifting gloves and cut-off sleeves and wears a nice fanny pack. Props. I learned about

the Roots fanny pack from him. It's an excellent choice if you're going to get a fanny pack. Oh, Roots leather fanny pack. He doesn't give a fuck.

Dude, I love Ford Fairlane. I was such a big Andrew Dice Clay fan that Ford Fairlane was still one of my favorite movies. I love that fucking movie. When was the last time you saw his comedy?

Long time ago. Dude, we saw him in Vegas. We saw him about two years ago in Vegas. Was it a year ago, two years ago? It was about a year ago.

Did you ever ask him about what the reasoning behind the day that laughter died? What was that about? He didn't give a fuck. He went on stage and he decided that he was too big or something like that. So he went on stage at Dangerfields and decided to just talk nonsense for two hours. No jokes.

Bomb and then release it as a DVD and it did great. He sold fucking hundreds of thousands of copies. So it was a joke? It was what he wanted to do. He just wanted to do whatever the fuck he wanted to do. It's fucking hundreds of thousands of copies. So it was a joke? It was what he wanted to do. He just wanted to do whatever the fuck he wanted to do. It's called The Day the Laughter Died. It sure did die. He did whatever the fuck he wanted to do.

And what he wanted to do was just show up and start recording shows where he just starts talking. And maybe comes up with jokes and maybe not. Wow. And some of the things were funny. Like, you'd get something funny every, like, 15, 20 minutes. I took that seriously, man. I didn't get it. I was only'd get something funny every, like, 15, 20 minutes. I took that seriously, man. I didn't get it.

I was only, I think I was, like, 22. I didn't get it. I took it seriously. I thought it was just, he just sucked. But he did it on purpose. He did it on purpose. I think he got so big. I don't think you, nor I, nor anyone in this room could ever imagine what it's like to be that famous.

Yeah. And this was famous before the internet, so it was a weird fame. You know, it was a, you know, like people couldn't believe they were seeing you. There's a lot more exclusives. Dude, you're about as famous as you can get, dude. I don't know how you go through life. Everywhere you go, people are going, there's fucking

Joe Rogan everywhere. That's gotta be fucking crazy. But they're nice, man. People are almost universally nice to me. It's not hard. People go, what's up, Joe? I go, hey, what's up? It's not hard. It's not like... But when people are staring at you at restaurants? I'm a nice guy, man.

If they say hi, I'll say hi. It's not that... To me, it's just a bunch of people that are being nice to you. If I was known for being a... Here's a perfect example. If you were like George Zimmerman you know is that like that's a guy that go all the way to trade shooting Trayvon Martin yeah if you were that kind of famous that would have to be that would be very disconcerting because you're famous for something horrible or that incognito guy

you just got arrested again last year for punching his allegedly incognito no no no no no Zimmerman Zimmerman. Zimmerman. Oh. Yeah, I mean, look, you're going to run into crazy people no matter what you do in this life, whether you're famous or whether you're not famous. And, you know, if you're a friendly person, being famous, as long as you manage it correctly, as long as you don't think it's – as long as you don't believe it. You can't believe it.

Yeah, you can't, but you have to enjoy it. Like, you've come from – you know, you basically worked hard. You deserve you deserve it you know like it never seems to get old people like man do you ever get nervous i'm like no man that's so cool you know maybe you inspire a lot of people i mean you're everywhere so people may be feeling inspired and it's like man thanks joe keep keep on going it's cool i mean you get well if that's the case i'm happy to do it you know i think i've been inspired by a shitload of people in my life so so if there's ever anybody that I can inspire, to me that's a huge gift, to be able to turn that back around.

I think everybody in this room is doing that in some way, shape, or form, and I think doing a podcast is doing that. Having a podcast is literally inspiration in a digital form. A lot of them, conversations with people that you might not ever get to sit down with, and you're talking like, I had Graham Hancock on last week and you know, I mean Did he start smoking weed again? Not yet.

He freaked out. He freaked out. He was the biggest stoner ever, Graham Hancock. He was off the rails. He was smoking too much. He was smoking every day, all day. That's way too much. Vaporizing too.

So when you're hitting that vaporizing bag, God I never... Vaporizing, too. Yeah. So when you're hitting that vaporizing bag, God damn, you're getting a lot of THC. A couple hits a day. No big deal. Don't get crazy. Yeah, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Some days, take a day off here and there. And you know what else is good about it?

We do it with someone you like. You know, like Eddie Bravo and I, we'll get together, we'll smoke a little weed. We're never, you know, it's a cool, calm, collected situation. It's going to enhance the conversation. Yeah, we're going to have a nice time. Some people, though, they're smoking it by themselves and sucking big bags of that shit.

Some people are just trying to get on that spiritual level, man. It could be a spiritual way of just chilling out, relaxing, you know? Fuck yeah, it is. It's a part of the earth. It's a part of the earth that we have a relationship with. If you're waking up hitting the bong, that's too much. Well, you know what? Maybe need it you know i'm not saying what you need or what you don't need but if you don't need it and you're fucking out of control then you got to deal

with your shit and that's the out of control thing is like a psychological balance i mean and as a fighter i think you probably have the most difficult job in all of athletics, entertainment, sports. You have the most difficult, solitary, lonely, dangerous, crazy job. I think athletes just in general have that because look at the exposure that we're getting on Twitter and stuff like that. That stuff wasn't happening when Michael Jordan was. So this goes back to what you're talking about when people were a lot more exclusive than because they couldn't get into your day-to-day life as if like, you know, I'm a fan of Joe Rogan.

So I'm like, man, what's Joe doing when he's in like brazil or london or something like that so they can keep up on you a little bit more exclusively so then when they see you they're like oh hey well that's also a different thing in in what we're talking about about like people coming up to you like people coming up to me are universally friendly like i've had very few people come up to me that weren't friendly and even if someone didn't disagree with me about something they'll come up and just start talking to me, and we can have a nice conversation about it. And there's never hostility.

But online, when you're dealing with anonymous people, they say the most horrible shit. Internet tough guys. It's not even a real thing they're saying. Because they don't really mean it. They would never say it if you were in front of them. It's a fake. The words have no weight to them.

You know what? If those people spend half the time off the internet or off their cell phone talking so much, and they use that same energy that they do on this side, but they go to the other side, you know, much more, like, positive, how much more inspirational, possibly, like, how much more, like, ambition they would have and, you know, maybe successful in that aspect. But some people spend that same amount of energy as you would over here on the good side spending on the negative side if you're able just to turn it around it's the same effort yeah i learned that very early in life that even though there's a real big pull to think about other people and dwell on other people and be angry about other people and look about their

success or compare it to your success that shit is all flawed and dangerous because it robs you of your time. For sure. The time you spend, even though it feels natural to hate on somebody, the time you spend hating on someone robs you of your own time. You are literally hating on yourself and you don't even realize it. So true. If you're a smart person person you only have a certain

amount of free time in your fucking day because if you're a smart person you find shit you love to do whether it's a relationship you love to do whether it's a sport you love to do whether it's a job you like to pursue you don't have much time and anytime you spend on some nonsense and gossip and stupidity when you see these gossipy websites and people talking shit about people where you're like, why would you even write that? What are they doing?

They're distracting themselves from their own failure universally. It's amazing that some people aren't even on that level. I lost a lot of friends growing up and getting to where I'm at. But despite good decision making, some people just don't ever get it.

They don't ever know how to flip that switch and realize that it's the same amount of energy that you spend doing bad is the same amount that you could be spending doing good. And it all goes to the decisions. They just get on momentum. They get on momentum. They get caught up in this wave of hating. You know, hating on people or gossiping about people or talking about someone that you don't even fucking know. How many people have you ever heard talking about reality stars on TV? Like TMZ people.

There's three types of people in this world, man. There's talkers, there's watchers, and there's doers. And if it wasn't for people like real famous people or whatever, TMZ people wouldn't even have a job because they don't know who to go follow anymore and be like, oh, what are they doing now? I like to think of when I meet a TMZ guy

that he's just a cool dude in a transitionary job. That's my approach. I like to think that right now he's sticking a camera in front of people's faces at the airport, but hey, man, I'm just trying to make some money. I don't know, dude. I used to deliver newspapers. I try not to judge anybody doing any of that shit.

But it's a job that exists. It's not his fault that that job exists. The problem is there's a demand. Demand for it. There you go. There's a demand for nonsense. And I'm guilty as charged, man. If I see, there was a fake video, apparently it wasn't really Kanye West, but it was saying

that Kanye West was knocking out these people that were paparazzi in Austin. I mean, whoever this dude was that looks like Kanye West, but it wasn't Kanye West, is just uncorking left hands. The video's been removed. Just bombs on these dudes. And he obviously has skills because he ducks under a punch and connects with a punch. He hits fucking hard and he knocks these three dudes out in this video. I watched it three times.

What the fuck am I watching that for? Like, why do I give a shit if Kanye West is getting in brawls? Turns out he wasn't even. But if he was getting in brawls with photographers. There's a new thing going around the internet called a game called Knockout. That's supposedly what I think the East Coast was doing. These young kids are knocking out old people.

Just innocent people that are just going up like, hey, having a conversation. Boom. Just hits them and they're calling this game Knockout or something like that. Yeah, there should be a new game called Let's Go Find Those Faggots and Choke Them Out. That should be the new game called let's go find those faggots and choke them out. That should be the new game. Like a squadron of guys going out to look for these motherfuckers.

Can you imagine that? You're walking down the goddamn street. You could be a lady, a fucking man with kids at home waiting and these dudes come by and punch you. Dude, it should be totally legal to take a baseball bat to those fucking skulls. Those kids need to chill out.

You know what? There's a lot of dumb kids out there that are not raised right, that don't get any guidance in their life, that live in a terrible environment. They're broken. They're broken. I mean, I'm not saying you can't be fixed, but goddamn, that is an utter lack of respect for humanity

if you just strike someone for no reason for a goof. Yeah, there's a point where you grow up, though, because you can blame it on the parents, but there's a point where you grow up though you know because you can't you can't blame you can blame it on the the parents but there comes a point where you get to a certain point where you're like okay i can make a decision for myself to make either a good choice like i don't have to live like this for the rest of my life i can go on and do this but just the fact that you would use that as an excuse like bad parenting and i'm going out i'm like bashing people but granted it does start with the parenting you know that's that's very important you important. And the guys that are involved

because it's one dude. There's like a group of five or six of them and one dude just clocks this man passing by. And the people in that group, man, there's got to be one per group that is has half a heart and can call the cops and report this

fucking bastard before he does it again. He's a rat. There's got to be. There's got to be. Fuck yeah. I thought he was talking about his group. No, no, no. A rat. He's a rat.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Come on. That's ridiculous. We need more rats, Eddie Brown. That's ridiculous. That's in quotes on a new meme on Twitter. We need more rats.

Good fellas. Eddie Brown. His whole family was rats. That's a good rat right there. Not all rats are bad. That's a good rat. Yeah, you know, it's an incredibly cowardly move. But it's also like they're looking for some excitement in their life, probably,

and it's exciting to do something horrible like that for all the wrong reasons, but still exciting. How about get paid $100,000, get into a gym? You know, Dana White's throwing out big bonuses. You know, get some lessons. That's the real knockout. See, that's the thing that I say to people when people talk to me about fighting. You know, they're like, why don't you go fight in MMA?

I go, what are you talking about? Do you understand what fighting is? Like, oh, man, you'd kick somebody's ass. I always say this. You think fighting is kicking someone's ass. No, that happens sometimes. But it's fighting. And everybody wants to kick someone's ass.

But nobody wants to fight. Nobody wants to have a John Jones, Alexander Gustafson. Diego Sanchez, to fight. Nobody wants to have a John Jones, Alexander Gustafson. Diego Sanchez, Gilbert fight. Well, you have, you know, you're letting it all hang out in there. And if that is not your sole idea of what to be doing with your life, you shouldn't be fucking doing it. Exactly. Because there's a dude like that out there. There's the Alexander Gustafson out there.

There's the John Jones out there. There's the Jeremy Stevens out there. There's dudes out there that that's what they do. Those guys are fighting for real, man. You're born with, like, natural talent, like, with those guys, you know, and they just made the decision to take it to a whole other level. Right. You know, and you're right, man.

You find out a lot about a guy when you hit him. Is he going to just fold over, let me beat him up until the ref pulls him off, or is he going to take a hit, keep coming back, fighting strong, you know, and that's where that class comes in, like, where at the up to the ref, pulls them off, or is he going to take a hit, keep coming back, fighting strong, you know? And that's where that class comes in, like where at the end of the fight, as soon as that buzzer hits and they know it's all over, all the training, everything, and they just give each other a hug and people are just like, man, that's amazing. But those two fighters have, like, they know each other better than anybody at that particular moment.

They're just on one. You know, they have so much respect for one another. You know, they're able to go to war. And plus it's entertaining for the fans. They just see something that's almost priceless. Yeah, no, it's the most exciting sport of all time. There's no sport that gets closer to the raw nature of a fight to the death, a fight or flight of being able to test your will, your heart, your courage.

You're willing to put it all on the line against another person. And not just in that moment, but in all the time that you spent preparing for that moment. The guy who was more willing, the guy who was more enthused, the guy who was more disciplined, and smarter. All those things have to come together. Yeah, yeah. It's connecting. And now also, you're dealing also like what we were talking about with these super athletes. These guys like Hector Lombard, these guys like Tyron Woodley,

these guys that are coming along like Jesus Christ. Sergio Pettis, the little 20-year-old kid. You can name all those guys, but then you've got to think here before too long there's going to be some little kid right now that he's going to turn 18 and he'll be like, no, this is what I've been training for, this is what I do. And by the time he's 19 years old, could be fighting in the UFC and be one bad dude. Like Tyson. Mike Tyson, exactly.

You remember those days when you used to watch Tyson on ESPN, and you'd see the highlights, and dudes would just go flying across the room. Well, a body shot to a right upper. He just admitted that he was on coke during those fights. No, no, the later fights after prison. Yeah, yeah, after he had like 300 million people were taking advantage of him. In his beginner days, he was just. It was after, so it wasn't during the ferocious days?

I think he was saying that it was after. Let's find out. Tyson admits he was hooked on coke. Let's go. Because it would make sense. Because if you look at his early fights where he's just destroying people, that makes sense. He looks like he's on coke. I think he was just so crazy, but he had so much power and such a gift.

But he would cry before his fights, dude. That's the scary part when you're about to go on stage and you're in the back and you're just waiting. That's the crazy part. Normally a fight just breaks out. You know what's funny? You're talking about that one documentary where he's crying before the junior Olympics, where he goes out and knocks to do that. Well, I found out through Frankie Lyles,

cause they're good friends. And he, he did my pod podcast, Frankie Lyles, former WBA champion. He said that he was, this whole time. I thought Mike Tyson is crying outside.

His, his coach has to come out and get him. Ted Lee, Teddy Atlas. And, and it appears that he's talking him through it. Like saying you can do this. You train hard for this. hard for this and then they come

back in that's what it looks like but according to Frankie Lyles his really good friend he said that no he was crying because he knew he was going to kill the guy and it was going to be so much fun he couldn't believe he's finally going to be he's going to win this Junior Olympic thing that's why he was crying and Teddy

Atlas is going come on this is like let's go get it let's go do it and then we could celebrate later That's a friend. He'll say from 2000 From the ring in 19 in 2000 when he fought Lou Savarese He was high and he was on coke and that's when he started using a rubber dick He started using the whizzenator. What year was this? This is in 2000 What year was this? This was in 2000.

Oh. This was post-prison. Okay. And he did test positive for marijuana after a fight in 2000 with Andrew Gulotta. They fined him $200,000. He said he didn't have a chance to get the whizzer from a member of his team. The dude was holding his rubber dick. That's crazy. He said he lost his mind back then.

He said That he was He bit Lennox Lewis When he was high on cocaine Whoa In 2002 All that shit Where I'll fuck you In front of you

You know I'll fuck you Until you love me Faggot Yeah Remember that Yeah Which was the

Maybe the greatest thing Anyone's ever said To anybody ever He was just sweating Come on That was one of your Bits Remember that

I'll fuck you Until you love me He goes Do you realize how long that would take? You ain't man enough to fuck with me. Do you realize how long that would take? I ain't man enough. Dude. That could take years.

Old school shit. Crazy, dude. He was insane, dude. That ferocious attitude. And he would just land blow after heavy blow. And he'd be like, I just keep punching because he knows he's just breaking you. And those guys would just. Well, he was high when he was fighting and he'd be like, I just keep punching because he knows he's just breaking you, and those guys would just. Well, he was high when he was fighting, and he wasn't training.

Yeah, he even mentions he got knocked down before the Buster Douglas fight. Yeah. And, you know, in Buster Douglas, actually, that's a crazy story about him. His mom died like three weeks before that fight, and he still took that fight. So you know that dude's just like on like another mental level because that or he would have just been really screwed up, but he obviously seemed like he was on a whole other level. Listen to this he wrote in his memoir.

The history of war is the history of drugs. Every great general and warrior from the beginning of time was high. Who put that? Tyson wrote that. That's what he wrote in his memoirs. You know what? There's a lot to it when you find out the Bushes brought in more coke to the states

than all the drug cartels combined. Could you imagine if you found out that the military industrial complex is just a bunch of coke heads? You know what? Dude, it was chosen. They call him the angel of the Lord of the Skies. There was this old cocaine dealer before

El Chapo Guzman. They called this guy the Lord of the Skies. And my Spanish isn't that good to even remember what what it was but this guy was one of the he was the richest and probably no one else will ever top the guy the lord of the skies what he uh he basically bought out all the police all the government and was paying top top dollar i mean he was where did he live he was in mexico okay he was in mexico and he's flying in drugs to the u.s and was using all these resources. So there's no doubt in my mind, you know, I'm not disrespecting anybody, but there's no doubt in my mind that that stuff is very for sure.

And people, cops, governmental officials are getting paid off. Have you ever seen the Clinton Chronicles? It's on YouTube. It's a documentary. No, what is it? God damn. Watch the Clinton Chronicles. It on YouTube it's free it's it's a history of Bill Clinton man and when you find out why he became president and what he did in Arkansas as governor that

dude was more ten times more gangster than any a hundred times more gangster than like John Gotti what about the bushka and the family and stuff like that they they are all tight Bill Clinton was working for George Bush A hundred times more gangster than like John Gotti. What about the Bush family and stuff like that? Bill Clinton was working for George Bush. Yeah, they're all tied in. This family bloodline of Bush goes back to the guy they call Dracula. And this Dracula guy, those people that would fight him. Vlad?

Yeah, he's like tied into a bloodline of just deep war roots. And it goes all the way back to that. But none of them are like Rob Ford. Rob Ford is still on top. The Toronto mayor guy. Yeah. You know what? According to the Clinton Chronicles, man, all the stuff that the media was, there was a media blackout at all the shit

that he went through in Arkansas. Jeez. You've heard all the shady shit around him. I've always heard that there was a lot... Barry Seals and the Arkansas cocaine drugs. Yes, but when you look into exactly what he did and how it went down,

it's like a two-hour documentary. It's insane. Bill Clinton is, according to this documentary, The Clinton Chronicles, he's a super cokehead. Him and his brother, Roger, super cokeheads. They were the ones that were allowing the coke to be dropped off from Latin America, from Colombia.

They drop it off. Arkansas was the hub. MENA, Arkansas. Look that up. Google MENA, Arkansas. That's where it all came through. Bill Clinton let all the coke come through during the Iran-Contra thing.

They got busted doing this. Ronald Reagan and... Is there any evidence that he was a cokehead? Like, saying that he's a cokehead like that... Dude, according to this documentary, according to the documentary... Who's the documentary by again? What's it called? It's called The Clinton Chronicles. Trust me on this one. This one will blow

you the fuck away, dude. He had everybody on lock, dude. Everybody. All public officials. You know what I love doing? Those people, the reason they're in powerful positions is because of their decision making. And some of the stuff that I imagine that they have to do. I mean, you read about like royalty and this crazy stuff that they'll do to kids for power and all this crazy stuff. Like the Bohemian Grove type shit?

Yeah, yeah. But there's even stuff like over in like this. There's this like in Europe, there's like this castle where they talk about these like little kids that they basically like do these crazy acts on almost like molestation for like their power. And like they're crazy like an adrenaline like when they scare them. Skull and bones type shit. Yeah. It just gets way deeper. Freemason type shit, right?

It gets bizarre, you know. Do you ever do Google like when you see you see something like the Clinton Chronicles, do you ever Google the Clinton Chronicles debunked? I don't believe those debunked. You look at the Wikipedia, though. Do those debunked? There's so many people paid to put up those debunked websites. I can't believe any of that shit.

I need to see the alternative media. The debunked stuff, that's all the official story of this is what the mainstream wants you to believe. I already doubt anything mainstream. Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes. Sometimes it's facts, though. You gotta look at both sides. There's a lot of fact

in the Clinton Chronicles, man. There's some serious facts going on. The New York Times called it discredited due to its weak circumstantial evidence and coincidences. Exactly. That's, of course, they got to... Black helicopters. Yeah, yeah, watch it. Trust me.

Black helicopters. If you believe... Man. Where's the documents? Dude, it's insane, man. I mean... I have the documents, Brian. That's official.

Like, Washington Post, they're bought and sold. Come on, CNN. Bought and sold. They're bought and sold. You can't believe it. I'll show you the receipt, bitch. Yeah, some of bought and sold. Come on, CNN. They're bought and sold. I'll show you the receipt, bitch. Yeah, some of them for sure. There's definitely a lot of fuckery going on.

Some of those things, you know, the problem with documentaries is almost anybody can make a documentary. Well, there isn't a conspiracy theory about Arkansas. That shit went down. I ran contracts. That went down. You're right about that, but who knows whether or not he's actually a co-cad. I wonder if the dude's doing blow and getting crazy.

You know what I'm fascinated with right now is there's so many ex-CIA agents coming clean and talking, man. And there's a bunch of them. Really? Yeah. You ever watch Homeland? No. People are going to start dying in crazy car crashes. There's a lot of deaths, man.

That happened in 9-11. You hear about loose change and all the other documentaries that we're talking about. Then they're like, all of a sudden, this guy died in a fire at his house. That's huge about the Clinton Chronicles. Anybody that comes forward as a witness, they get their heads blown off, and then the coroner puts suicide. Just body after body after body, people die. Tila Tequila, who was dating the Johnson and Johnson. What happened? The girl,

remember Tila Tequila? Right. She was dating, you know, like Baby Johnson, the shampoo and stuff. Uh-huh. Well,

she was like, doing her lesbian thing with the daughter. And well, the daughter had like, ended up dying. And well, like Tila Tequila

came out in this crazy YouTube videos, was talking about Illuminati, was like, and these people were trying to give me the shutter stop. No, I'm not for sure

exactly what's... I really doubt anybody did anything but laugh if they found out the Tila Tequila. If I was the Illuminati, I would want Tila Tequila

talking about the Illuminati. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Send her a fucking dossier with everything in it. Tell her everything we're doing and tell that bitch to start our website.

She was doing a good job there. Well, if she started doing that and then they would go, yeah, yeah, Tila Tequila told you that? Okay. We're done here. You just release all the truths

and just give it to Tila Tequila. That's the way when she starts her show, you'd be like, what the fuck? What, Tila Tequila's Edward Snowden? Tila Tequila's Julian Assange?

No, it's fucking Tila Tequila. Stop, bitch. You think, look there. That's ridiculous. Dude, that shit's crazy though.. No, it's fucking Tequila Tequila. Stop, bitch. You think... Look, there it is. That's ridiculous. Dude, that shit's crazy, though. The Illuminati's using her. She's a pawn!

They have the documents. You don't think they can find a better spokesperson for Tequila? Fucking Tequila! Ann Coulter and Tequila Tequila are lovers! Tequila Tequila has died seven times Sure she has Shut that off, stop Is that what it says? This is exactly the shit I'm talking about

If you look at her Wikipedia You would go, okay Try talking to Neil Tyson or Sam Harris About what Tila Tequila told you Their fucking eyes would glaze over The conversation would be done in 10 minutes. Just stop. Nothing wrong with Tequila Tequila.

She's a very pretty girl. Maybe she's got some good points. My point is, that's the thing about Homeland. Homeland's an interesting show. It's on Showtime. It's about the CIA. I really enjoy it.

It's a fascinating show. It's about the CIA? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's about the CIA and fighting terrorism and people turning terrorists and soldiers turning on the government. Does it make the CIA? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's about the CIA and fighting terrorism and people turning terrorists and soldiers turning on the government. Does it make the CIA look good? No, no. It's a good show.

It's a really good show. It shows how difficult the intelligence business is, though. And it shows how much they set things up and they create fake stories and they release fake stories to the news. It's goddamn fascinating. Really? They go that far? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you watch it and you go, huh, I wonder what they actually do.

Because this is purely fiction. So I wonder how much is actually going on. How much is actual narrative? How much they create? But for sure they create some of it. For sure. For sure. For sure.

If there's some shit going on they want to cover up. Dude, Operation Mockingbird. That's not a conspiracy theory. How about Operation Midnight Climax? it for sure for sure if there's some shit going on they want to cover up dude operation operation mockingbird that's not a conspiracy theory how about operation midnight climax that's not a conspiracy you know that's that's a fucking real thing that they did where the fbi put brothels in new york and san francisco and they got people fucked up on lsd when they thought they were going to get a hooker and then they monitored them and checked them and did studies on them. These dudes, they were going to get their

dicks locked. I'm tired of fucking my wife. I'm tired of my life. I'm tired of everything. But I scraped up 200 bucks. My wife doesn't know about it. I'm going to sneak off to this brothel and I'm going to blow a load. It's going to be glorious. And you get there. Would you like a glass of water, baby, before we get started?

Sure, I'll take a glass of water, honey. And drink a little glass of water, and all of a sudden, do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do-do. The fucking guys in the suits come in with the clipboards and the big glasses, and they're freaking you the fuck out, asking you questions.

And these poor guys, man, they did this for years and did these unbeknownst to them studies on these dudes. And it was after the government couldn't do it anymore to soldiers. So was this like mind warping them and figuring out their mind frequencies? Well, they were trying to figure out what the fuck LSD did. And for a long time they thought LSD, when Robert Hoffman, Albert Hoffman rather, when Albert Hoffman created LSD,

once the intelligence community found out about this incredibly potent psychedelic drug, for the Western world, it was one of the first psychedelics people were aware of. It wasn't until Gordon Wasson discovered the psychedelic mushroom that people knew that it existed in the Western world. The information, for what have you, even though there's thousands and thousands of years of use, had kind of been lost to the modern intellectual. Well, acid came along by accident. Albert Hoffman discovered acid. And then the government, initially, when they found out about it, thought that it was going to be a truth serum. They thought, what we're going to do is we're going to get these enemy guys, we're going to give them acid, and they're just going to tell us

everything. Turnout didn't work that way. It was just they were too fucked up. They couldn't make any sense. They were talking about butterflies stealing their underwear, and they were madness. Oh, they were tripping. They were tripping hard. And by the way, they didn't know what the doses were.

The way I've heard it described acid biochemically, it's a fascinating description, but Terrence McKenna said it best. He said acid is so strong and the dose is so small that an ant could destroy the entire empire state building in 30 minutes like that's literally how powerful acid is per size per dose that and the analogy would be an ant destroying the empire state building in 30 minutes so it's it's so intensely powerful and they were giving these people large doses so they weren't getting any truth out of destroying the Empire State Building in 30 minutes. So it's so intensely powerful. And they were giving these people large doses. So they weren't getting any truth out of them.

So then they thought about it and said, well, maybe this is the opposite. This is what we'll do. We'll give it to our soldiers. And then when they get captured, we say, hey, pop this shit in your mouth. You're not going to tell anybody shit. They would give them like one of those juice boxes

filled with acid. They would suck it down when they were in the trenches, and then no one would be able to talk at all. Yeah, for sure. They just mind-warped them, huh? Yeah, they mind-warped them. Well, they did a lot of tests, for sure, on people where they didn't know about acid. They did those.

They did a lot of tests on soldiers, both the United States and the British Armed Forces did that. And they also, the United States, did tests on unbeknownst towns. They did these clandestine operations where they just took this town in France and they put acid in their bread. And people died. People freaked out. They did crazy shit. They got seriously dosed up. Acid in bread.

Yeah. This ex-CIA agent talked about what he did personally. Yeah, this ex-ci agent talked about what he did personally one of the one of the things that stuck out in his head is in Cuba they would find the truck route to like elementary schools hijack the truck fill the milk Throw cement this is what he said he could be totally crazy in this documentary and saying but he's saying he's an ex-ci agent And this is the stuff they they wanted to cause chaos. They would infiltrate Cuba they wanted a and this is the stuff they wanted to cause chaos. They would infiltrate Cuba. They specifically targeted to blow up bridges where there'd be women and children

so people would freak out. They wanted as much chaos as possible to start a revolution. And in the chaos, according to this guy, they would cause the chaos and that's when they would come in and take control of the drugs and sell the arms to the rebels.

Like that was the formula, whether it's a Latin American country, like Nicaragua or wherever. I mean, El Salvador, wherever that was the plan is to go in there, cause chaos, arm the rebels, sell them arms and blow shit up, blame it on the commies, start a revolution, try to assassinate, again, according to the CIA agents, they're saying, try to get the dictator assassinated. And in the chaos, they take control of all the drugs, natural resources, oil, and selling. That's what the CIA did. According to these guys, that was the job. Masterminded.

They do it in Asia. They do it in Latin America. They do it in the Middle East. Cause chaos. They want the chaos and then once the country's decimated that once the economy collapses because of all this chaos the international bankers come in boom and they they become the saviors they come in and save and then they they they put in their own dictator boom they have control that whole country basically

bankrupt them and then yeah it makes sense right oh these are gangsters are gangsters and Arkansas was the state. This is not a conspiracy theory. It went down with the Iran-Contra hearings. They got busted. Ronald Reagan and George Sr., the head of the CIA, is the vice president. They get busted doing this. JFK and all them.

And they knew Arkansas was where they were bringing it in. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is exactly what happened. So who was the governor of Arkansas when all this came through in the 80s? Bill Clinton. He was the one letting it all when all this came through in the 80s? Bill Clinton. He was the one letting it all happen. And then who takes over as president after George Singer, the head of the CIA, once he steps down after he invades Iraq, Bill Clinton is the president. They're running together. Bill Clinton is hooking up George Singer by letting him use Arkansas and he becomes the president.

And then you watch their debates. You go to YouTube and watch their debates. They're talking about sending jobs overseas. And they're doing this with their hand. Like, they got this thing, man. This is, I don't know what this is, but this must mean something. That's a speech thing. That's a speech thing the guys do when they try to make a point.

Yes. Presidents really like this. Well, you don't want to do this because this is aggressive. This is like, you can make a point, but you're not hitting anybody like this. I'm not a fighter. I'm going to lower taxes and we're going to

create more jobs. Put a stamp on it. You hear him talking about this. Sometimes you can gently do this. And knowing that their main business is Bill Clinton was hooking up George Singer, knowing this, and then now they're talking about the fucking balancing the budget, it's hysterical. It is like pro wrestling.

It's like they're buddies behind the scene, but on camera they're pretending like they're enemies. But it's insane. And that's not a conspiracy theory. This is the story. He was a CIA agent, right? In 1951 in France, suddenly and mysteriously, people struck down with mass insanity and hallucinations. At least five people died. Dozens were interned in asylums and hundreds afflicted.

That's the facts. And it was assumed that the local bread had been unwittingly poisoned with a psychedelic mold, which happens. And that's what they're saying was responsible for the Salem witch trials. They said the Salem witch trials, they've narrowed it down to apparently when there's an early frost, when you have a wheat harvest, early frost can trigger the growth of ergot. Ergot is a type of fungus that grows on wheat that has many of the same qualities as LSD. So when you consume this bread with this ergot or wheat that has this ergot in it, you trip your fucking brains out.

Naturally. Naturally. In a scary way. Oh, yeah. Because you imagine taking massive doses of acid in your bread. Even back then. When your children are tripping out, your children are freaking out. Everyone thinks everyone's haunted.

And, you know, they just start drowning witches. They're like, you know. Yeah, that's insane. I watched that on like a Netflix about Salem Witch Trial this stuff was crazy yeah a lot of people just thought that they were being that they were under a spell you know they literally didn't realize what was going

on so they had blamed this shit on Urgot until recently and now they believe that what's going on was that the CIA had there's CIA documents that this guy found while investigating the suspicious suicide of a man named Frank Olson, who's a biochemist working for the SOD who fell from a 13th floor window two years after the cursed bread incident in France. And one note transcribes a conversation between a CIA agent and a Sandoz official.

Sandoz is the people that eventually started producing in mass quantities LSD. They mentioned the secret Point Saint Esprit experiment. Point Saint Esprit was where this all went down. So they had mentioned it in a memo and

explained that it was not at all caused by mold, but by diethylamide, the D in LSD. So they had injected this shit into this town's bread supply just to watch it, just to sort of, just to absorb what happens when you get a whole town on acid. In 1951, they didn't know any, you know,

they didn't really have all the data in 1951. I don't know anything about that, but you telling me that, it's like, just makes sense. They're fucking criminals. Yeah, well, some of them were, some of them are, you know, some of them back then. My hope for real is that the Internet provides such an access to information, such a boundary dissolving thing between people and the truth, that anything that happens from now to the future or from five years from now to the future, everyone will be so accountable for their actions because it'll be so obvious and clear that they just won't be able to run things business as usual.

The corruption will slowly morph down to a very reasonable level because it'll all be transparent. I remember there's so many different conspiracy theories and, and, and you just don't have time to really look into them all. And I remember you being really into JFK and I never really spent that much time. It just seemed like when someone would tell me that was, it was an inside job, like just knowing what these criminals do and they're like, okay, I believe it. I just haven't looked into it.

But recently, just recently I've been obsessed with the JFfk case oh it's fascinating it's amazing man to think to think that all the stuff that i did spend time in that it's all connected all from world war ii prescott bush george singer jfk nixon all the way up to George Singer becoming vice president, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, bam, George W. How did that happen? And then Obama. All of it is all connected, and it all has CIA running right through it. I would like to play the part of the average person on the ultimate, the underground right now, going, why the fuck are they talking about conspiracy theories where Jeremy Stevens is on the podcast?

No, I'm totally... He believes it. That doesn't sound crazy, right? That doesn't sound crazy to you, right? I want to hear about training and diet and nutrition. We do want to hear about this. Do you take creatine? We do want to hear about this stuff, man,

because honestly, if it opens up a lot of people's eyes to really stuff that's going on, and you bring up a lot of good points, like why aren't we seeing documents like that in school that says, you know, George Sr. was CIA type stuff and some of these events that were going on and you bring up a lot of good points like why aren't we seeing documents like that in school that says you know george senior was cia type stuff and some of these events that were going down history i mean he was the head of the cia that's that's history george senior and that alone is and it's it's again that's not a conspiracy theory it's history that's insane well way more disturbing george bush but that's not listen that's kind of disturbing

but george bush senior being the head of the CIA is a natural progression. Going from one big top office to another kind of makes sense. What doesn't make sense at all and is really scary is the Dick Cheney-Halliburton connection. The fact that Dick Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton, he leaves Halliburton, becomes the Vice President of the United States, then Halliburton starts getting these no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq. I mean, these huge, multi-billion dollar contracts to rebuild Iraq, a war that Dick Cheney is trying to get us into. That's the tip of the iceberg, to think that that's only happening because of George Singer.

When George Singer and Ronald Reagan got busted, they got busted wide open selling arms to the Contras. They got busted and all the coke. And nobody went to jail. You think that stuff's going down? Oh, no. Oliver North took the heat. Oliver North took the heat. I think that stuff is.

I live close right down. I live in Chula Vista. Yeah. And Chula Vista, it's real close to the Alliance Gym, but it's basically like Chula Juana. And when you go down there and you hear all, you hear all these crazy, like, homeland stories about just these drug cartels, this and that, selling guns, where they're getting these guns from. In Chula Vista? No, not in Chula Vista. In Mexico.

Right. They're getting, like, American guns and they're able to, like, you know, basically, like, go down there and come back up here. And then they have, like, state stash houses and it's like all this crazy stuff that that goes on that you know you don't really think about but it's actually going on right here in america too ricky ross he was on your show he was saying that yeah i remember being 22 and some and i worked with a couple mexican gangbanger type dudes and were deep in in in the hood and mexican mafia and i remember them saying oh you think you don't think the government brings in the drugs? I was like, the government brings in the drugs?

He goes, you think we got airplanes? How do you think the drugs get in? And they looked at each other and laughed like I didn't know. And I go, you guys are insane. The government brings the drugs in? Are you crazy? And it turns out that that's real. And that's not a conspiracy theory.

That's documented. You see that tunnel that they found recently in San Diego that goes all the way to Mexico Super sophisticated the one electricity white lighting air conditioning wiring. It's a new one Well, they found many of these tunnels Yeah But this is go to big corporations or a place where they could just pick up their drugs and and this this stuff goes this stuff Goes down. It's insane. There are you live in San Diego? drugs and and this this stuff goes this stuff goes down it's insane there are you live in san diego what is it like in san diego being that close to mexico being that honestly you don't

even know the difference till you go over there it's like we're over here paying for like this crazy fish market like it's like 100 bucks you go downtown san diego you go 30 minutes into into tijuana you get the best fish of your life for just dollars you know so it's it's a lot cheaper but you know the the culture is is way's it's a lot cheaper but you know the the culture is is way different there's a lot of different things like san diego has a way laid back vibe everybody's cool it's like nothing going on but realize that like a half hour away there's shootings every day that's going down and and like just their buildings look a little a lot more ghetto and just the way they live you almost when you go back and you have that type of

experience being over there you almost just appreciate going to a clean neighborhood, you know, driving by. Oh, fuck yeah. That makes sense. So what is it like being that close? Do you ever think about it? Do you ever hear about it spilling over? Yeah, you hear about kidnappings.

You hear about, you hear a lot, you hear a lot of stuff, you know, and then like sometimes there's like helicopters flying, like, have you seen this guy? Whatever. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So kidnapping is because it's easy to get back into Mexico. Yeah. Getting back into Mexico is like that. Human trafficking, man.

The drugs, you know, people that are stuff that people are making movies on and making millions of dollars, you know, that's all cool, but that stuff really goes down. Right. You know, there's a big war on drugs, and like you said, you know, you hear about people, like, government's funding and this and stuff. You hear about governments funding and this and stuff. Where do you think they're getting these type of guns and this type of muscle? Because the drug cartel will basically buy, say Joe Rogan, you're like an army general guy and you know some secret stuff on weapons. And you're only getting paid $100 a week to feed your family. And they're like, tell you what, we're going to pay you $100,000. We're going to put you and your family in a house, whatever.

But if you mess up or if you do anything wrong, we'll kill you, your whole family, and then some. So they'll take like head corporate people that know how to build like submarines. They'll get these people in the jungle that know how to build this stuff, and then they'll submarine hundreds and millions of dollars of drug cartel. And it's insane. This stuff actually goes down. I wonder if you imagine if there was like a map, like an overlay of the United States, of dollars of drug cartel. And it's insane. This stuff actually goes down. Can you imagine if there was a map,

like an overlay of the United States, where you could just theoretically watch a highlight of all the cocaine boats that are coming on a daily basis? There's a big shipment right there, Joe. As crazy as that is, that the law enforcement couldn't see it, but you could see it.

Law enforcement gets paid off not to see it, or they do or they don't. Well, as crazy as that is and that all does exist, all these cartels are real, according to these ex-CIA agents and all the stuff that was going on in MENA, that's a small, tiny fraction compared to what the CIA is dumping in. They're bringing in giant fucking military planes filled with tons and tons of coke. And then every now and then they'll bust a little cartel, put it on the news and say, look, we're doing our best to stop this.

Watch The Lord of the Skies, that documentary like you're talking. I'm going to go home and watch that Clinton Chronicles. But I'm not for sure the Spanish word of it, but check out The Lord of the Skies. That guy was the most biggest, powerful drug dealer. And there's another guy down there right now that's coming up.

But no one says that there's anybody like this guy they called the Lord of the Sky. This guy. One of it's Barry Seale. This guy funded the whole government and the government was protecting him. He was buying police. That's Barry Seale. That's got to be Barry Seale. He's the most famous, biggest.

You're talking about a guy that's alive now. No, he's dead. I guess he came over here for surgery in San Diego and was into plastic surgery to change his like look like he's like iran type crazy stuff and uh he died like during a surgery that's supposedly but then there's like conspiracies conspiracy theorists that are like no he didn't die he escaped you know because i'm sure you heard of el chapo guzman who escaped from a high security prison prison. Escaped, in quotes. Escaped a high security. You got billions of dollars, man. Billions, and that's funny.

Have you seen the documentary, The Two Escobars? No, I haven't. Dude, you got to see The Two Escobars. One of the greatest documentaries ever. Eddie probably fucking is in his glory. See how he picks up when you're talking about conspiracy theories? This is about Pablo Escobar. This has nothing to do with conspiracy.

This is one of the biggest drug lords ever, Pablo Escobar. And it's about him and how he got involved with soccer in Colombia and how he... He almost became political, but then there was a backlash of the things that he was doing because they loved him like a god down there. He was feeding the poor. He was doing this crazy stuff with his drug money, but he just didn't want anybody messing with his family but he was feeding the the poor he was doing so much for politics well there was a lot of killing going on which which is involved in drugs you know a lot of families were dying so then there

was a big retaliation toward him and the things that were going on so then like the politics like cut him off was like look we can't be associated with that not not like if people know you like this so they cut them off that's it right there yeah what he did what i what he did is uh um they wanted he was you know obviously he was helping the poor and he was building houses and he was really into soccer building little soccer fields all over the ghettos and he raised a bad badass soccer players that's That's why Columbia ended up going to the World Cup, because he raised them. All the guys on the Colombian soccer team that made it to the World Cup, I think it was 93, they're like, why is Pablo Escobar in the audience? Why does he have VIP?

No one really knew. They just thought it was just, when you looked into it, he knew all those guys. He raised them up as kids. He was really super into soccer. Have you ever had anybody try to get you to dump a fight? Have you ever had some Pablo Escobar-type gangster dude who bet a lot of money on you? You can't say that. I have an infatuation because I'm always into conspiracies.

I watch your stuff. I always like to pick and choose. I get into stuff like that. But one thing that's always interesting to me, and I've never been involved in, is just drugs, drug cartels. Actually, I grew up from a family where, you know, there was a drug problem in the household, which is the reason why, like, you know, I kind of live poor and in the ghetto and stuff like that. So then when I hear about, like, these drug cartels and these big billionaires that just come from nothing, these guys come from, like, you'll hear them talk about being poor, helping their parents farm.

They never wanted to live like that. They wanted to live large, and they had these dreams of just envisioning this stuff. And on their way up, they've got to do some crazy things to get heavy words to crown, they say. So it's crazy, some of their stories and interesting facts. And I kind of like it. The U.S. wanted to extradite him and throw him in jail in the States for all the shit he was doing. And Pablo Escobar went to the government

and said, if you rewrite the Constitution, rewrite the law that says I cannot be extradited, I will go to prison here. You can have me in prison. And then they said, fuck that. And they fought.

He killed a lot of politicians. There was like wars on the street and there was so much bloodshed that they finally said, okay, we are changing the goddamn law. You know, now go to jail. So he goes to jail. And meanwhile, that whole time,

he built the jail. He set it up. He had nightclubs in there, tunnels to escape. They had no idea that he went to his own jail He was part. He was leaving anytime. He wanted this is all in the documentary So when they finally figured it out because they took it they Arrested his rival arrival drug cartel they send him into prison and he was right there in his own prison

So they murdered him so once they find out that they figured out the oh shit. He's running this jail They went there and he was gone, dude. He had escaped tunnels. Dude, he had a nightclub there. He had a soccer field. They, you know, he ended up dying later. They chased him down, right, and killed him, assassinated him. Yeah, yeah. Apparently Columbia's

awesome now. Apparently Columbia, like the drug problem's like a thing of the past. It's like a nice, safe place to be. It's interesting, man. Colombia's crazy. Yeah, it's interesting how that can happen. I have a hotbox out there, 10 Planet Barranquilla. Oh, yeah? Yeah, those guys are savages.

Isn't it interesting that, you know, places can go and come? And I wonder what the fuck's going to happen in the future in Mexico. Because when I was a kid, man, Mexico was a badass place to be. Yeah, you could go over there a lot easier. Yeah, you go to Cancun. People always went to Cancun. Everybody, like, you never heard anything about violence in Mexico. Mexico was, like, a nice place to be. Yeah, you could go over there a lot easier. Yeah, you go to Cancun. People always went to Cancun. Everybody, like, you never heard anything about violence in Mexico. Mexico was, like, a nice, chill place.

You thought of people with fucking margaritas chilling on the beach. You know, you didn't think of dudes cutting dudes' heads off. I was worried. Yeah, they're still beautiful places. Like, not saying that it's, like, bad. You know, Mexico has some pretty cool ancient stuff, like, over there that, like, line up with the stars. You know, so I'm not dogging on Mexico by any means. mexico they're very humble people you ever notice that mexican people always take care of you you can you know you go to a mexican family's house you know you're eating

good food their manners you know they're trying to take care of you very family and you're a quarter mexican i'm a quarter mexican my my girl's 100 mexican so i come from a mexican background you know nice yeah i love it they take care of me. You've got a lot of great Mexican fighters, man. You want to talk about one nationality that has produced incredible boxers? Eric Perez looked pretty good, huh? Fuck yeah. He looked great. He looked like he's improving for sure.

Cain Velasquez, dude. Yeah. You know, that dude. Oh, my God. Well, he was born in America, son. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Finally, we got a Mexican heavyweight champion. He's American, son.

Couldn't do it in boxing. American. Born here is American. Couldn't do it in boxing. American. Born here is American. Chael ever fought him. He and Taron are doing pretty good, I imagine. About being from America? Chael's son. I don't think he would mind knowing what kind of a beating he's going to give Chael at the end of it.

How do you think Cain Velasquez would do in boxing? Oh, who knows? I mean, he would have to get really good at it. You know, there's a big difference, man, between a guy like, let's say Andre Ward. You see Andre Ward's fight this weekend? He fought this dude who was a serious knockout puncher. I forget the guy's name. But Andre Ward just boxed circles around him and just cracked him, hit him with some big shots, basically dominated him.

But this guy was a badass fucking boxer. And he's a really high-level boxer. This guy was undefeated, a big knockout record. There's a big difference between a guy who's a guy that's good at boxing and MMA when there's all these other techniques, especially a guy like King, who's such a great

wrestler. I mean, his game is all about transitioning from striking to takedown, takedown to striking. I mean, if a boxer wanted to fight him in an MMA bout, he would kill him. Kill him. But he would have to really absorb the game of boxing to compete as a boxer. Who do you think has the best chance to beat Kane? Damn, that's a good question.

Dude, I don't know, man. Alistair? No, he's been knocked out. I think Travis Brown's coming up. Yeah, Travis Brown's tough. He's got to get through Josh Barnett, though. And that's it, only Josh Barnett. Josh Barnett could catch him with a submission or something.

That would be a guy that would eventually, you know. You think Josh can take Kane down? Who knows? Most likely, no. What do you think? I don't know, but I think he could keep good range and be able to wrestle and wrestle him off him, then maybe take him down.

Who knows what Josh Barnett's going to show up. You know, this guy, you guy, he's dealt with a lot of past stuff, but I think when you get back into UFC, especially not this time, I think he might be rejuvenated. And this fight with Travis Brown is a huge fight. Travis Brown is definitely a young, talented dude on his way up. He's hungry.

I know he's working hard, so these two are really going to set the standard. Who wants to take it to that next level and go up there and challenge Kane for that belt? That's a great fucking fight, man. Huge fight. Especially coming off that Alistair fight. Let me tell you something, man. There's not a lot of heavyweights on the planet that would have withstood that beating that he took in that

first round from Alistair. Those knees are insane, dude. If I got a knee like that, bro, I'd just be like, give me a second. His knees are so much harder than everybody else's. He throws them so different unlike anybody he's like one twos you and then just bombard you with this knee they're ruthless it's crazy and it's like getting hit over and over again with a battering ram yep but somehow or another travis

brown gutted through that shit literally got it through it he's amazing yeah then got up in front kicked him in the face in the same round i mean crazy you know what man if you get kicked in the face one time you'd be like, okay, you got me. I'm still up, you know, if you're still conscious. But he kicked him in the face like two, three times, and he was just leaning toward it. You know, I was like, dude, move. I think he had just shot his wad.

Wad, dude. He just shot it. He blew it everywhere, man. There was nothing left. Dude, those snap kicks. Those snap kicks to the chest and to the jaw. No joke, man. Yeah.

You're seeing them a lot now. You didn't see them two years ago. Are you throwing those? Are you throwing those front snap kicks? Honey, Jason, this last fight, tried to throw them at me, and I was like, and I was like, hold up, you know? They're deceiving because, like, all of a sudden this guy, I normally look at the chest when I fight because I can tell where his hips

are going to be. I can see his base, and I can see his feet, and I can see where his hands are lined up. So I know I want to keep good range, but those kicks are deceiving because you've got to raise them with your knee. So it's like your elbow going through first to hit like a baseball. So the elbow always leads, just like the

knee. So the knee pops up. You don't know if he's throwing maybe a fake back knee, but it happens so quick and it pops right in your face. It's quick. It's like a baseball bat. Isn't it amazing that we've gone this long in the UFC, and we just figured out this old basic-ass karate kick is actually really useful. We've been years where nobody practiced it. Nobody.

I bet MMA gym after MMA gym was their striking coach was telling their students not to throw those. Oh, those don't work. Time after time. It's an interesting thing where you see how much of a follow the leader thing is going on in MMA because a guy like Anderson lands that front kick and knocks out Vitor, and the whole sport changes. Like overnight, everyone's throwing front kicks. Josh Thompson's throwing them like a motherfucker.

Anthony Pettis is throwing crazy kicks, throwing crazy knees. Like that dude just comes and puts them. I think we know now that, oh, these crazy kicks do work. You just got to have good bounce and good wrestling. And you got to make sure that if you get taken down, that you could pop right back up or you have good jiu-jitsu. If that's all you had, the only reason they weren't working is because the only people that knew how to throw them

didn't know how to fight on the ground. So we went through a dark period where we have to take away. These techniques are going to disappear for a while until the wrestling and the striking merge as one. It's just so interesting to see these guys that are coming up that are throwing these games, throwing these

techniques at people that you never saw, like Vitor landing that wheel kick on Luke Rockhold. Dudes are throwing wheel kicks all the time, like it's like a jab. It's good to even throw, I'm no striker but in my opinion it just seems that if you at least throw them, even though they're hard to land sometimes, but you throw them,

it takes a guy off his game. It's like, oh, this guy's willing to throw these motherfuckers. So it's kind of... You see Jorge Masvidal and Rustam Khabibov? I saw the fight, but don't remember it. Khabibov wheel kicked him in the neck. Like, out of nowhere.

I mean, Khabibov is fucking... And he knocked him out? No, he rocked him, though. Had him badly hurt. Masvidal can take it, man. But he caught him in the neck with a wheel kick. Like, out of nowhere. I mean, Khabib Lav is fucking something. And he knocked him out? No, he rocked him, though. Had him badly hurt. Masvidal can take it, man. But he caught him in the neck with a wheel kick. Like, out of nowhere. Out of nowhere. Like, the dude's a straight grappler

with some strikes. That's what catches him is people willing to take the risk. A lot of people have a lot of good arsenals in their tools, but in the fight they'll just stick to the basics. They're not willing to risk it. But those people, when somebody throws something spinning at you, you almost look at them like, all right, bro, this guy wants to risk everything.

Okay, I like that. Let's get after it. So you're willing to throw down like, okay, this guy's willing to risk trying to knock me out. Now I've got to risk something. But if you just sit back and let it happen and you're not really taking any risk, you're not really getting any reward either. You know, one thing I want to say about GSP is, yes, I think he lost, and, yes, it was a bad decision.

Just look at his face. But I admire GSP for going forward, sticking to his game plan. He was throwing down the whole time. He was going forward. He got rocked, and he backed up a little bit, but generally in that fight, he was throwing head kicks like a motherfucker. He was throwing

big right hands. He was... He's a true warrior, man. He's a proud champion. And it seemed like in the, it really seemed like after the first round, he already started gassing. He was breathing really heavy, but he kept going forward. But he got hit hard, man. Yeah.

He got hit hard. I felt, I've kind of felt bad for him in the press conference. You know, there's no taking away GSP that he's not, he's not a gamer, that he's willing to do what it takes. And he almost seemed like, he's just like, man, you know, he doesn't really care. He's just like, man, I left it all out there for you guys. Like, what do you want me to do? You know, I'm not a judge.

I'm a fighter. I went in there. Dude, this dude who Johnny Hendricks is throwing some serious bricks is hitting me in the freaking face. Yeah. Of course, you know. But he did fight through and he did finish the fight. He didn't give up at any point. Does that bother you, man?

There's a lot of insensitivity in how people view fights and fighters after fights happen. I mean, I've seen guys come up to people and say rude shit to them. Like, what happened, man? Why'd you get knocked out? Like, I've seen guys say that. And it's just like Rashad Evans was talking about some dude who came up to him uh at an autograph signing and tried to get him to autograph a picture of him you know that famous picture of him after machida knocked him out yeah oh the guy's stuck in his face like smiling

laughing hey man can you autograph this and you know rashad crumpled it up and told him to get the fuck out of here like there's that that rudeness and not respecting the fact that this guy they think that just because he gets paid for it, he should be able to deal with your douchebaggery. Yeah. Hey, man, he's a public guy. He's in the public eye. This is classless attitude, man.

That's just horrible. Well, sports fans are used to talking shit about athletes. They've always done it with baseball players. They've always done it with football players. You know what I mean? That's a big part of a basketball game is people behind the basket talking shit to the player while he's shooting a three-pointer.

You know, talking shit while he's on the free throw line. Giving him those fucking things, like blocking him in front of his face. I think that's funny. It is kind of funny, but there's a difference between... That little devil right here just on your shoulder. I think they need to understand and appreciate the difference between the loss in that sport. That's a shitty feeling to lose a basketball game and a loss in an MMA fight, which is a life-changing proposition.

Now you're in a completely different category as far as your expectations for your future. You have to rebuild. You have to regroup. You have to really think. The other day when I actually was in the float float lab and uh actually by the way i got some shirts for in the car from how'd you do you like that that was amazing and you're talking about like this this journey that people deal with like people use a lot of meditation i thought that float lab just like i just re redid up my finances i just redid my my whole entire life then i just

i just went on this freaking trip where I was just, I felt like something was pulling me out of things. And I was like, I was just dealing with so much out of there, you know, like mentally. And I just think that some people, you know, like when you get setbacks like that, some people dig deep and come through some groundbreaking news like in their mind where they'll change. But then some people just stick to that pattern and end up falling off, you know? Yeah. Well, there's, you know, the reality of self-examination is that you don't always like what you see. And you can either change it or you can just ignore it because it's too much work and you get tired or you get into that sort of deflecting mindset. Defeatist.

Yeah. Defeatist attitude. Defeatist attitude. And a lot of alcoholics get that. They just keep getting back on the wagon or they keep getting back drinking. They can't help it. That happens all the time. They can that. They just keep getting back on the wagon or they keep getting back drinking. They can't help it. That happens all the time. They can't.

They're not strong enough to pull through. Too much work. It's hard. The thing is it's 80% mental and 20% physical. I really think that you have to have your mindset to the top peak if you're going to compete and do stuff like that. Because if you're going in there with maybe something ain't going on right at home or in there with, like, a, you know, maybe something ain't going on right at home or, you know, just anything. Maybe the family members die. Maybe just something ain't going right.

And you go into a fight, you know, that wears and tears on you, like, mentally, and it's mentally taxing. What's been the toughest fight for you to go into? Because you've gone into fights with, like, legal issues hanging over your head. You've gone into fights with a lot of bullshit going on in the background. That would probably have been the Eves-Edwards fight, which is where I got clipped. And like I told you before, I was like, man, I feel like a young specimen. You know, I can take anything, whatever. And, you know, in the gym I was actually working on my athleticism.

I was feeling a lot more better. I was a lot lighter on my feet. And then when I went into that fight all stressed out, I felt like the old me. I was just all shrugged up. I was tight. I was just going for it. And there was just really no excuses that's my style of fighting is i'm willing to risk it to to get a you know i want to make bank bro you know and uh and i was going

into that fight just not a clear head i didn't have my head on my shoulders and i was just gunning for it you know i needed the money like i just felt like i just got robbed of so much i i got robbed of my freedom i got robbed of like my my kids putting food on the table for my kids. I was like, man, this isn't right. What happened with you? You had some sort of a legal situation where someone accused you of assault? Yeah, someone accused me of basically just assaulting them and beating them real bad. I guess the person had stopped breathing.

Was it a mistaken identity case? No, it was just a classic fact that I threw an after party at a smaller bar. To be honest, I didn't even see a fight break out, and a fight had broken out, and it carried on outside. There was a miscommunication with people. I guess the bar owner was trying to kick this drunk guy out. What I know, he was at the bar. He got kicked away from the bar, and he's like, give me my credit card.

And he's just being disrespectful, groping on women, you know, just being obnoxious, drunk. You know, a guy needed to go home and just take a chill pill. Well, keep in mind, this guy's like in the Army. You know, he's like somebody you'd think that you'd look up to or had some type of respect. And he just gets drunk, basically. The bartender kicks him out and then he ends up like kicking the owner in the nuts for trying to get him out where he punched some dude actually and uh the dude had hit him back and like self-defense then he'd kick the owner in the nuts

gets gets thrown out start they're like hey man this is like a private party you got you got to leave he starts get he starts getting into it with another guy and then that's when it was happened to be my after party from from a fight that i had and that's where my name had got got brought up and i was actually uh i actually called down to the police station the the next day was like hey you know i heard you guys were looking for me like what's going on you know and uh my my management team was there he actually seen the fight and he he knew he knew a lot a lot about what was going on so we were just like being proactive so you didn't have anything to do with it at all? No, nothing at all. I didn't even see if I'd even break out or any type of scuffle.

So was it the fact that the dude got knocked the fuck out and he thought you did it? I guess he got beat bad, and then people were mentioning my name. It was my party. And the guy who actually did it turned himself in to the police. Oh, what a trip. And then I ended up getting in trouble almost a year later for something I completely didn't do.

And I was actually in Des Moines and was calling down to see if I needed to be questioned. And they're like, oh, no, there's nothing to be questioned here. So it was just something that you were on the hook for for a while that you had nothing to do with. Nothing to do with at all. And it cost you a shitload of money and legal fees. Yeah, and just a lot of just mental stuff. And now that I look back at it, it's crazy. I'm a lot stronger of a person from it.

You know, I really watch who I'm hanging out with now. I don't go out, you know, I mean, I have kids, you know, there's a time to grow. Well, you have a serious fucking career now too, man. I mean, you're highly ranked. That Hany Jason knockout was a big wake-up call for a lot of people at 145 pounds. Thanks, man. You've had two fights there now? Yeah. I'm, I, uh, just credit to my coaches, man. My, my team, my family. You know, and thanks for, like, UFC and, like, Dana White for really believing me. And I was just like, man, I had nothing to do with this, dude. You know, like, I just got robbed of so much. But that didn't define me as a person, the person that I was becoming in the gym.

And, you know, it's just going to show now is the right time. I think everything's really connected in my career thanks to my coaches and everybody who's supporting me. I think right now I'm really starting to grow because when I first seen you, I was just turned 21 in the UFC. I really kind of grew up inside the UFC and fought guys that I probably shouldn't have been fighting at or didn't really have a chance and I'd go out and I'd win. So I had a young career. When I was 22 years old, I had like $100,000 in my bank account. I didn't even know what to do with it. I was just enjoying myself. Well, you did the smart thing, man.

You realized that you had potential, and you went down to a serious gym. You know, Alliance in San Diego, without a doubt, is one of the best gyms in the country. It's an excellent move, the perfect thing for you to do. And look, it's a beautiful thing to see, right? Hard work and reaping the rewards of that. Eric DelFerro, man, he's the man, dude. He's almost like a sports psychologist. He just really knows how to click with me, knows what to say, how to work with me. And I was looking for

that for the longest time when I was traveling. I went to Florida with Hermes and had some run-ins with some bad management. And I was just getting screwed over there. So I just didn't really have the right people around me at the time. And I was just searching for somebody just to grab a hold of me and just mold me into something. I knew I had all the skills and talent. I just needed that type of coach, and I think I really found that with Coach Eric DelFerro. Man, that guy, he's creating a monster, and I love where he's going. What's next for you now? Who are you fighting next? Because I know that there was going to be a quick turnaround

because your fight was quick. Yeah, the fight was quick. I'm healthy. It was a personal goal of mine to get in there, get after it, get a huge win. And I'd set some goals for myself. I see them every day. They're hung up on my door. And this is one of my goals. I'm going back close to my hometown, which is Chicago, January 25th.

I think Josh Thompson, Benson Henderson's on that card. And my hometown's just right next door, and this is a real huge fight for me. Who are you fighting? Oh, I'm fighting Darren Elkins. That's a good fight. Yeah, yeah. That's a fun fight. He's a tough wrestler.

He's from the Midwest guy. And I really just think that I have all the skills to beat him. I'm just going to keep this ball steamrolling. Nice. Beautiful. You think he's going to try to take you down? Yeah, I think so. I think. Elkins is tough as fuck, dude.

He bangs with everybody. He does bang, but he also, he's very smart. He utilizes his wrestling. He is. He's got a good ground and pound. He's lengthy. He knows how to use his range. But I see a few holes in his game, man. It utilizes his wrestling. He is. He's got good ground and pound. He's lengthy. He knows how to use his range. But I see a few holes in his game, man.

It's going to be a great fight. It's going to be a fun fight, and I think he'll bring out a lot of viciousness in me by his attacks. Yeah, I think that's going to be an awesome fucking fight. That card is sick. I love that Benson Henderson, Josh Thompson fight. I like the fact that Josh Thompson, even though he's in line for a title, the champ gets hurt, and he's like, who else you got?

I like that. I like that about fighters, man. I don't, I don't believe in waiting around, man. Just go ahead and just prove Kenny Florian. I actually, somebody I actually looked up to a long time ago. He's just beating these guys and they're like, man, Florian, what's next? The title shot. And he's like, no, what man? He's like, I just tell you what he's like, just bring, bring me whoever. He's like, I'll beat anybody from top to bottom just to prove that I deserve this title shot. And he's like, I just want everybody to know that. And I was just like, what a beast, you know? Yeah, I love the fact that Thompson is coming into his own after a long history of being in the fight game.

But he's as good as he's ever been. That fight against Nate Diaz was fantastic. And his fights in Strikeforce with Gilbert were fantastic before then. He's really improved. He's always been an athlete. Even back when they cut the UFC, he was fighting Eves. He ended up getting a vicious kick. He's throwing a back fist and he's getting caught.

But he's had a long, good, successful career, and he's very athletic, very skilled, and he's really coming into his prime right now. Yeah, he's been around for a long time, man. He's like – True vet. Yeah, true vet, but a real smart dude. Skilled. Skilled, smart. He does a lot of sneaky shit. Those trips that he True vet. Yeah, true vet, but a real smart dude. Skilled. Very skilled. Skilled, smart.

He does a lot of sneaky shit. Those trips that he hit. Trickery, yeah. Those trips that he hit Gilbert with, I love those. He grabs your neck and trips you and shit. He does a lot of weird shit. And then he'll strike. He'll do like a takedown, and right away he'll pop up just to strike and throw elbows at you.

He's really interesting to watch. He's a fun guy to watch. He's real active at 55. Yeah, he's such a good fucking weight class, man. 55 is so crazy. There's so many good fucking talent-filled weight classes now. 45 stacked, 35 stacked. I was impressed.

You know, it's like Josh Thompson, Rashad Evans, all these guys, he went right through Chael, man. That was a different Rashad. I think he's on a different level. We've got to wrap this up, unfortunately. We're almost out of time. In three hours, we'll run out of gas. Okay.

We turn into a pumpkin. You stream can't handle a recording that's more than three hours long for whatever reason. My point is, real quick, Robbie Lawler. Oh, yeah. Another one. That's another good example. All of a sudden, he looks vicious, man. He's throwing kicks now.

He's coming into his own. Holy shit. He's coming into his own. He's a monster. They're sticking it out. They just keep sticking it out, keep grinding. It takes years to get your striking together. It takes years, and a lot of fighters quit before their striking gets done.

Well, it's also just focus and maturity and really putting in the work. They grew up inside the octagon, him and even Diaz. Diaz was, like, what, 18 when he fought Lawler and them guys? And Roy McDonald ended the fight on top, elbowing Robbie. So props to Roy McDonald, too. Holy shit. Roy McDonald's a bad motherfucker. Holy shit.

It was a great fight. All right, Jeremy Stevens, we've got to do this again. Yeah, thank you guys for having me, man. I really appreciate it. Next time you're in L.A., man, let's do it again. It was a lot of fun. Let me go get this win, man. I'm like nine and a half weeks out from a camp right now, so I'm going to go back. And then I'm just going to's do it again. It's a lot of fun. Let me go get this win, man. I'm like nine and a half weeks out from a camp right now,

so I'm going to go back, and then I'm just going to enjoy myself, man. It's going to be fun. Congratulations on all your success, man. You've been really doing great. It's beautiful to watch you improve. It's awesome to watch your hard work pay off. Appreciate it, man. It's a pleasure sitting here next to you guys.

Thank you. Thanks, brother. It was an honor. All right, thanks to Eddie Bravo as well. Go to 10thplanetjj.com and learn some jiu-jitsu, son. 10th Planet Headquarters at the Tap Out Gym in Los Angeles.

The master, Eddie Bravo, teaches there himself on a nightly basis, you dirty bitches. Yeah, I got, I'm going to 10th Planet San Francisco this Saturday. Go to the Nibiru Forum

on 10thplanetjj.com for all the info. This Saturday, 10th Planet San Francisco. Eddie Bravo on Twitter and Jeremy Stevens is Lil Heathen, L-I-L Heathen. That's his nickname. Eddie Bravo on Twitter and Jeremy Stevens is LilHeathen. L-I-L Heathen.

That's his nickname. Don't ask. He'll fuck you up. LilHeathen on Twitter. Thanks also to Squarespace.com. Go to Squarespace.com. Use the offer code all one word, Joe, and the number 11

to save yourself 10% off. No credit card needed. Just try it out and start building a website. It's a fucking beautiful service. And if you like it, then you put in your credit card. You can use it. You can make your own website. You can start your own business on it. You can have your own online store. It's so easy. Even a dummy like me can do it. An easy and awesome way for anybody to design their own website. Thanks also to Lumosity.com. This is the correct website,

Lumosity.com forward slash Joe. That's Lumosity.com forward slash Joe. Click the start training button and start playing your first game. That's the special offer. You can try Lumosity. It is a fantastic way to get your brain in shape based on the science of neuroplasticity. So go check it out. Enjoy it. Love the fuck out of it like we do. And thanks also to Onnit.com. That's O-N-N-I-T.

Use the code name Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements. We'll be back tomorrow with Lorenzo from the Psychedelic Salon, one of my personal favorite podcasts. He's going to be joining me. And then on Wednesday, the great Brian Callen will be here. All right, you freaks.

We love the shit out of you and we'll see you soon. Big kiss. Give him a big kiss, Jeremy. There you go. Bravo too. There you go.