The Joe Rogan Experience - #444 - John Hackleman

Episode Date: January 21, 2014

John Hackleman is an American martial artist and the head trainer at The Pit mixed martial arts gym.

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! Um, well, I've been around martial arts since I was a little kid, and I have always loved to talk to guys like you that have not just been around martial arts, but come from a traditional martial arts background. You were there for the birth of MMA.

You're still walking around in gi pants, and you still sport a fanny pack. You don't give a fuck. And you've been around for a long time, man. You've been around through the whole birthplace of MMA and trained arguably one of the greatest fighters in the history of the game in Chuck Liddell. Who would argue?

You can't argue. Impossible to argue, right? Inarguably, I should have said. No, he's... I mean, one of the all-time most exciting guys to watch ever. Ever. Ever. And he was always like that.

And you were there through his entire ride, man. From day one. Yeah, I remember you were there when he fought. Was it Noenandez is that the guy the cat's name that was a the boxer guy yeah and they came up to chuck backstage and john and john paredi told chuck not to shoot on him because he found out chuck was a wrestler i told him if he wants to work for the ufc you're gonna have to stand up and bang he stood up and bangeded, all right. He stood up and banged a lot. Yeah, but even telling that guy he has to do that is so hilarious. It's like, you didn't have to tell him that.

He was going to do that anyway. No. He's Chuck fucking Liddell. I actually, towards the end of his career, I begged him not to so much, and he still wouldn't. He would not stop banging. He banged to the end. Yeah, he certainly did.

And he's talked about it before, too, that he just, like, would hit a guy, and he'd know he had him hurt, and his just killer instinct would just take over, and he couldn't help it. He couldn't help it. He would, we would spend hours and hours and hours with, you know, we'd put the little thing down between his chin and his shoulders to keep his chin down. I'd keep stuff to keep his hands up, put weights in his hands, put stuff under his arms, hours and hours.

And he would drill it, drill it, drill it. And then the second he hit someone and just saw that little spark in the eye, the killer instinct would take over and he'd drop his hands to his hips. He'd put his chin up in the air and just start swinging for the knockout. He'd put his chin up in the air and just start swinging for the knockout. He'd forget everything. Well, the crazy thing about Chuck is, for the longest time, he could take everything. He could take all

of it. And he beat a lot of guys because he took their best shots. And then when they didn't expect him to be around, he's knocking them out. Like Alistair. He fought Alistair in Pride. That was a goddamn war. It was a one-round war. Alistair came out very strong. Hit with some really good knees real sharp but Chuck could fucking take it and stay in there yeah and he would yeah and he he hit so hard

and and then when he his chin wasn't quite what it was he just didn't that you know he don't want to change his style we didn't want to turn it into a more cerebral game he wanted to go out a banger yeah he did isn't that crazy yeah well I guess you know it's so hard for the average person even me included I might have been there for all of it but it's so hard for me to even understand what it must have been like to be that guy. You know, he was, when the UFC first exploded, Chuck was the poster boy. I mean, he was the guy. And you couldn't get, like, a better guy as far as, like,

his style and, like, the results of his fights. Like, if you wanted people to watch a fight, you'd watch a Chuck Liddell fight like the Babalu fights or the Randy fights, and god damn he fought exciting i mean he was one of the most all-time destructive guys in the history of mma and he he was the guy that was at the top right when it exploded so it was so fascinating so fascinating to watch that guy's career yeah it was it was uh it was quite a ride oh he was an animal he was an animal. He was.

He was a fucking animal. And here's when he's stopping Alistair. This is in Pride. Yeah, that overhand right. That crazy overhand right he throws. He had hit him a few times before that too, though. He had tagged him. He was starting to wear on him. Yeah.

And then, boom, he just put him away. That crazy right hand that he used to throw, that was the strangest punch. He would throw it right in between their gloves. Yeah. And Glover's going to be the same. Glover's got that bad. He's got some serious one-punch knockout power too.

Yeah. We were training yesterday, and it's scary because I want to use these hands. Usually with hard punchers, it hurts your shoulder when you're holding the mitts. But with him, it doesn't even hit the shoulders because it feels like your hands, every time he hits, it actually feels like the bones. There's 28 little bones in your hand. I mean, there's 28 little bones in there. And it feels like they're all separating every time he hits.

And, I mean the it's not even pain it just has such a weird feeling and i just i just you know and then i get flashbacks every time it hits me because it hits my hand but it goes all the way in my brain and i have flashbacks to when i was 14 years old getting hit in the head by samoans back in hawaii it's like ptsd flashbacks while you're holding pads i do and i'm like uh but then i realized where i am i'm just thinking i just feel sorry for anyone that he hits and makes contact with with that punch because it's a punch i've never felt before it's the power chuck had a different power chuck chuck's power was mainly that straight right and then he

had the overhand. But it was timing. Chuck was about timing. He had great timing. Very accurate, too. I saw him when he fought Vernon White. Vernon White. He was like Tiger White. He was walking backwards, and I was yelling at him.

I was yelling at him for the signal for the right hand, and he actually looked over and went like that and the announcer said something was it you that fight? I don't think it was me then he was looking over to the corner and he threw the right and he just boom you know what now I think it may have been me

I do think it was it was like when I first started working for the UFC and I was yelling I was yelling the number for think it was. It was like when I first started working for the UFC. And I was yelling the number for that punch, and he like looked at it, okay, bang, and he did it. He was out. Yeah, and he hit him right in the eyeball, too. That was a brutal punch. He has,

he had really hard hands, and he punched really hard, and he had perfect timing. And Glover, Glover, without the timing, or with the timing, I'm not saying he doesn't have the timing, but he doesn't need the timing. He has Tyson power. Like Tyson, one punch, go to sleep. Wow.

It's scary. Well, I saw the Bader fight, and you can see it in that fight. And he performed very well against Rampage, too. Yeah. And then you see the Kyle Kingsbury fight. That was just an unbelievable mauling. I mean, Kingsbury is a really tough guy. I hated that fight.

A really good athlete and such a great guy. But Glover just was so outmatched him. It was a mauling. We did not like that. Me and Chuck hated that fight. In fact, Chuck, because we love Kyle. How could you not? not yeah he's my fanny pack jammy pack partner we have we actually have a jam off because i have a i have a song on

a dance on youtube because i did a little dance and uh with my jammy pack i love to dance and uh so i challenged uh kyle but i mean you can't not love kyle Kyle. When Kyle would come around camp for Chuck towards the end, not even as a sparring partner anymore, you want him. His energy is... He's a martial artist and he emulates just

Kyle Kingsbury-ness. Yeah. Kyle's a really good guy. He just couldn't be nicer couldn't be smarter you know and really good athlete too he's coming to mma late in his life though you know yeah and it would have been interesting if that kid got involved in mma when he's like 14 or something like that you know oh he started later yeah i believe so i'm pretty sure he was an athlete first a wrestler um i don't think he was a wrestler. I think he was like a football player or something. Football, yeah. Super athlete, though.

Yeah, I love that. I don't know if he's retired. I think he was thinking of retiring. He had a bunch of tough fights, and the Glover fight was one of them. It was a real tough fight. Yeah, Chuck was yelling from the side, choke, because he was on top of him. And Chuck just wanted to choke him out so he would tap. Chuck did not want any more out so he would tap.

Chuck did not want any more damage because we love Kyle. We hated taking that fight. Yeah. Is that dangerous when you have a situation like that and you know your guy is going to face him? Is it dangerous in any way to have that attitude to go into a—because Glover doesn't have that attitude, right? I mean, as much as he likes him him he's there to do the job yeah glover's there to do the job and glover didn't have the closeness that we did to him because he came uh kyle came around more when glover was on his hiatus to uh brazil so he didn't have quite the closeness. He really liked, um, him, but I mean the, the MMA spirit, um, and I'll take out an M the MA spirit martial arts, um, is just so different than boxing,

which is, I mean, technically a martial art too, but they just don't carry themselves. Most of them like martial artists, right. Carry themselves like more like thugs or just and they don't have the same camaraderie i mean i have a picture of a siler of his fight in um in kentucky i don't even know i forgot the guy's name really tough strong wrestler um he lost a close decision it was his last fight um but they were actually the the day before the fight, at the weigh-in, they were hanging out playing video games together, like huddled together. And I didn't know who that guy was at first. And I walked over, hey, what's up, man?

What's your name? And he's like, so-and-so. I go, aren't you guys fighting tomorrow? And they go, yeah, yeah, coach. Hold on, we've got to finish this game. And they hung out for like two hours at the weigh-in. And then the day of the fight, they were like hanging out in the dress room. And then they went out and put on a brutal, I mean, it was a very brutal fight.

It was a good fight and it was a brutal. They didn't hold back anything. They definitely fought. Yeah, it was Dennis Bermudez, who was a great guy as well. Yeah, he was. And that's the camaraderie. You don't see that in boxing. And MMA, you see it more than you don't.

Yeah, it's cool to see. It's cool. I love it. You know, it was cool too when Anderson was champion and George St. Pierre was champion and Aldo was champion, Anderson was champion. When those guys would, like, get into the cage and bow, and I would go, well, look at this. Here's the best guys in the world today, and all of them behave like martial artists.

All of them have the martial arts, the ethics. All of them bow and face their opponent, and they all are very well-versed. They have Liotto, lifelong martial artist, and those are the best guys. It seems like as time goes on and as guys get better They start to realize that the correct way to live your life is the way the ancient warriors did like they weren't stupid Like they didn't come up with all these ethics because it was cute

they did it because it makes you a better person and all these ideas of peace and harmony until battle and the the zen state of mind the ability to achieve this oneness with with the task at hand there's a reason why they invented all that stuff and for like boxers and you know like a lot of mma guys that came from even a wrestling background they don't recognize the power of that those philosophies like those philosophies remove a lot of the uncertainty and the doubt that people have they remove you you know who you are if you follow those philosophies yeah i i i think i i see a lot of the boxers didn't have that and i came up in a boxing background and i was on boxing teams I was on the all-army boxing team I was on a lot of boxing teams and there was camaraderie with our

our team but there wasn't with other teams and I mean guys like Chuck I think Chuck was one of the first guys that started that um the Gracies did too um but even even a lot of the wrestlers they've replaced sensei with coach, and they use the word coach with the same reverence that a lot of karate guys use sensei. And so I think a lot of the wrestlers do have more of that work ethic, martial arts ethic, and like I said, it comes through with the coach and stuff. But you'll see that with Chuck. and like I said, it comes through with the coach and stuff.

But you'll see that with Chuck. You'll see that with Leota when he kicked Mr. Munoz in the head and he stood over him and he just like could have hit him one or two more times and he knew he was out and there was no need to. But I've also seen Dan Henderson do that. I've seen him not do it. But I've actually seen him do it when he wasn't angry with the guy. I remember he did that with one of the greats, I think, Renzo or Henzo. Henzo, yeah.

Didn't he do that when he stopped? Well, Henzo was completely out cold and he recognized it. But he could have hit him again, and a lot of people do. A lot of people will every single time, but a lot of the guys just like they know that. There's no need to. And some guys know that there's no need to, and some guys know that there's no need to but they still do yeah and sometimes it's the same guy it's just different fights yeah yeah yeah

but um but like uh chuck had that from the very beginning he also had that with randy you know because they were they weren't like friends where they call each other and hang out but they were they were friendly yeah and randy came out to train with me a couple times, and him and Chuck, that was before they fought the first time, but not too far before they finally got signed to fight. And they hung out a little, so they were good. They never weren't okay. Chuck was okay with almost all of his opponents.

He wasn't with two of them that I know of. But I think every other one he was very friendly with before and after the fight, but never during. Yeah, never during. But, yeah, he recognizes there's no need to be an asshole. You're going to fight no matter what. Talk all you want, all that crazy. But when all the guys did talk, like anybody, like Tito,

it was a perfect example. That's like one of the more bitter rivalries that he had. You know, it's like you could see it pisses him off. It's not really a good strategy. It wasn't a good strategy to put Chuck off, no. And Tito, yeah, he said something about, you know what bothered Chuck the most was not what someone said to him because almost everything could go off his shoulder.

I mean, you know, like Chuck, who's a big fan, I think it's Shaq O'Neal or one of the basketball players, I'm not sure who it was, but he was actually in the dressing room after Chuck beat somebody and Chuck came in and this Shaq O'Neal or whatever. Shaq O'Neal. Is it? Yeah, Sha Shaq O'Neal or whatever, you know, Shaq O'Neal. Is it? That's the name.

Shaquille. Shaquille O'Neal. Or Shaq. You're my favorite fighter. And Chuck talked to him. I saw the way Chuck, you know, interact with him or a famous movie star, Chuck, interact with him. He interacted with a guy on the street asking for a quarter the exact same way.

He interacts with everyone with dignity and respect. Yeah. And he's a family man like no other. So when Tito did say some things, it didn't bother Chuck that what it said to him, it bothered Chuck because he thought his kids would hear that, and he didn't want his kids hearing that kind of stuff. So he was pissed. His kids would hear that, and he didn't want his kids hearing that kind of stuff,

so he was pissed. And you saw those 23 punches land on Tito's face in about a second and a half flat. That was one of his best performances. Yeah. And those were epic fights, and epic in different ways. Like the Randy fights were epic. Those were defining because I think the first one, like losing that first one, really taught him something, taught him about being prepared and being conditioned that he just he got outworked you know he got to

a situation where he uh you know he underestimated and randy's on top of him and he's exhausted and randy pounded on him yeah he was and uh chuck was never the conditioning guy he trained really hard and gotten conditioned but he didn't love to work out. He loved to fight. He was a fighter. I mean, there's some people that love to fight and want to be a fighter, but they don't. No, they love to be a fighter. They want to be a fighter.

Chuck loved to fight. He didn't care about being a fighter. He just loved to fight. He was in there loving to fight. I think I contradicted myself, but he just loved to fight. He was in there loving to fight. I think I contradicted myself, but he just loved to fight. And he just wanted to fight. The conditioning part was so he could be better at fighting. He didn't love to work out.

Right. He loved to fight. That was it. Well, very few people do love the strength and conditioning. Yeah, like Glover. Do you love it? Court McGee loves it. Really it glover loves it yeah court mcgee he runs a lot with weight vests on too right he does crazy stuff and i he'll call me like every other day all right coach what am i what am i doing to and i'll put him on these crazy things and sometimes just you know not expect him to do the

whole thing then he'll call me back that night he goes goes, well, my time was so and so, and I did this much weight. And I was like, oh shit. Okay. And he's a, yeah, he's a freak. I mean, he's a freak of, of conditioning nature. And so is Glover. Yeah. Uh, I, uh, Glover, I brought Glover to a CrossFit cause I'm a CrossFit certified guy. Um, and I brought him in the early days of CrossFit, I brought him to a seminar, a certification. And they picked him out of the audience because he was the buff guy. And they always want to make them look bad. So basically they're trying to call him out to try to dog him. And they're trying to have him go against this girl doing overhead squats, which is a really tough movement for even muscular guys. Because it has so much to do with flexibility and balance

and shoulder pliability. So they called him up and he did 21 of them in a row. And everybody in the audience was like, okay, he just made a fool of you guys. And then so the CrossFit guy said, okay, now go do a muscle up. And Glover, what's a muscle up? I don't even know what that is. So they showed him to the rings and he did a muscle-up. And Glover, what's a muscle-up? I don't even know what that is. So they showed him to the rings, and he did a muscle-up. He never even knew what it was. Didn't even know what it was. No, he did it.

So I think that's – Glover's a natural freak too, just like Corda's. All my guys have to go through my training regimen, which most don't like, but they actually love it. They're like, hey, what are we going to do today, coach? don't like but they actually love it they like hey what are we gonna do today coach so well you're you're famous for having some pretty outlandish uh strength and conditioning methods like you like to use wheelbarrows you like to use uh you like to make guys do like heavy actual work yes i want i want them to yeah i do want to work uh hard and i want to push to that limit because in a fight you go to that limit so

many times and i i realized that and i had to get my strength and conditioning and stuff in order by reading books because at 14 years old in honolulu hawaii and when i decided i wanted to fight in the golden gloves i didn't know how to get in shape so i went to the library i was in junior high school and i i got a library book and it was Rocky Marciano. And I read that, so I learned that I should go run two miles every day. That's what Marciano did? He ran, and there was a bunch of other stuff.

But there was, since he, one thing was bad though, because I was trying to gain weight, and Rocky Marciano was light for heavyweight, so he advocated eating a lot of graham crackers and shakes. Graham crackers and shakes. It was in his book. His book was like

written in probably 1952. But he, because he said that way it would put on some extra muscle. He was a heavyweight, you know, and he was walking around at like 172 pounds. Was he only that light? I thought he was about 190. No, he would fight. He would try to fight. I think he would get in the high 80s. But he only that light? I thought he was about 190. No, he would fight.

He would try to fight. I think he would get in the high 80s, but he would walk around lighter, and he would try to gain the weight to weigh in. Really? Because there's no weight class. Wow, that's crazy. I didn't know.

I thought he was very light, but weren't people smaller back then, except for guys like Primo Carnera, who fought... Did he fight Lewiswis who did primo carnera fight he fought dempsey didn't he get knocked out of the ring by dempsey yeah i think it was dempsey yeah it was before famous picture yeah that's right he was a legitimate enormous giant guy seven ish yeah he was seven feet huge huge but like joe lewis also fairly light guy

right he was in the 90s that's so crazy yeah that's so hard for people to imagine that the heavyweight champion in the world was a buck 90 yeah yeah and i mean and when you look at someone like um like mart marciano hit so hard you know or even mike tyson i mean i mean he he he bulked up and weighed in what what, 212? Yeah, 215. Solid as a rock. Yeah, and he was smaller than most of his opponents. He was such a goddamn nightmare, though. The Mike Tyson of the 1980s.

What a nightmare it must have been to fight that guy. Just try to keep him off, keep him off, keep him off, and he's just swinging at you. Yeah, and every punch. Popping and weaving. And every punch. And he was such a student of the game. Yeah.

Huge, huge student of the game. So he knew exactly how to land those solid punches. And that happens to be Glover's idol. Yeah. Not in life, but as a fighter. Well, didn't Glover have a fight and Tyson was in the audience? And he came up and hugged him after. Which fight was that?

That was the one. That was Tahuna. That was Tahuna, who was a tough mother. He's very tough. Yeah. Very tough. So Glover is now finally, after all this time, for a lot of folks who don't know, there's very few guys to this day that aren't in the UFC that you look at and you go,

damn, I wish that guy was in the UFC. Like pretty much all of them are in the UFC today. There's a couple of guys, in my opinion, I think Michael Chandler and Eddie Alvarez are two guys that I'd love to see in the UFC. I think they're super high level. And Eddie Alvarez are two guys that I'd love to see in the UFC. I think they're super high level. You know, I think there's some talented guys that fight in other organizations,

but the big name was always Glover. It was always, guy can't get a visa, guy can't get a visa. And people would tell you, wait till you see this motherfucker. And I watched some of his fights online, and then we finally got a chance to have him in the Octagon, and I was like, wow, yeah, this guy is legit. Yeah, he's very legit. He's very well-rounded. What an epic, well-rounded game.

Good kicks, good punches, good chin, good aggression, great jiu-jitsu. Good wrestling. Good wrestling, vicious ground and pound. Very solid, not really missing anything. Conditioning is off the hook conditioning and the ability to take a shot and then recover really quickly and hurt the other guy like the baiter fight was a perfect example of that you know baiter clipped him yeah and he knocked baiter out cold just a few seconds later i mean it was just a beautiful left hand that he

landed on baiter he's a monster man. When he fought Sojuku? Yeah, I saw that fight. That was in WEC, right? That was WEC, and that was a fight that Dan Henderson called me and asked me to take because Dan was managing Sojuku. Yeah, here's Sokuju. Here's him just teeing off on Sokuju. He crushed that dude. And Sokuju was like, after that, went on that horrifying tear in Pride

where he was destroying people. It started with Arona, destroyed Arona. It started with Minotauro. He fought Little Nog, knocked out Little Nog with a wrist. Remember that? He went to throw a left hand and caught him with the wrist and starched? He, like, went to throw, like, a left hand and, like, caught him with the wrist and starched him. I mean, he had unbelievable power.

He knocked him out, knocked Arona out in one of the most terrifying KOs ever, and you thought, holy shit, who's gonna beat this guy? Like, and then you realize, well, someone's already beat him. Glover beat him.

And then you watch the Glover fight, and you're like, whoa, what the fuck, man? Glover's an animal. Yeah. Yeah, then he had that really fast knockout, six-second knockout of... Here's another WC fight. The guy out of Vandalay's camp. I don't know who it was.

Yeah. George. It was George something. Not Jorge, but George. Well, Glover's now going to fight for the title. Yeah, but George. Well, Glover's now going to fight for the title. It's really interesting because it was a long time coming just to get him into the UFC. Had visa problems for a solid six years. Nightmare.

And now he's fighting Jon Jones. And Jon Jones is coming off that really tough fight with Gustafson. I think Jon Jones is going to be highly, highly motivated. Yeah. I mean, he realizes how close that fight was and how dangerous that fight was. That was a wake-up call kind of a fight where it's like, look, man, you know, this is out there.

The Gustafson guys are out there, and this Glover Teixeira guy is out there too. So I think Jon is going to come in, like, super motivated. And he's such a talented kid too. I mean, Jon Jones, think about that. and he's such a talented kid too i mean john jones think about that guy youngest guy to ever win mma title at the highest level fights shogun for the title and stops him i mean beats him beats him up beats him up murders him mauls him hit him with a flying knee seconds into the fight just so creative so like takes a lot of chances and risk does a lot of shit that you

don't expect and and still doesn't even as a champion you know i mean he's not he's not changing his game at all as a champion no he's a he's a bad motherfucker that is a fantastic fight yeah he has a lot of tools but yeah that one that one punch, I just keep thinking of my hands separating and the bones in them and just how hard he hits. And, like, it's going to be a good fight, and it's a great matchup. But it's, I mean, I don't think, I mean, you know, I would get real nervous to fight Jones, real nervous to fight someone like even Chael, who's like his takedowns are so crazy. Be so nervous to fight, you know, Rampage because of his aggression. There's so many guys with so many tools, Anderson.

But just knowing the power that Glover has, I think that would put the most fear into me. Wow. Just hitting that hard. It would just be like, what do I do? I can do this, this, and this me. Wow. Just hitting that hard. It would just be like, what do I do? I can do this, this, and this, and this and get away from it, and I could try to do this on him. But the second that hand lands, I don't know what to do. What's not going to break?

Do you have any videos of him hitting the bag or hitting the pads that are online? Not really. We did one yesterday, an Instagram one. People love watching training videos. Yeah. People love watching those. I love watching those. Like, I love those countdown to the UFC shows.

Yeah. Because I go, here you go, right here. You get to see in those countdown to the UFC shows, you get to see guys in there honing things up, tightening their skills, and it just makes the anticipation of the fight ever more exciting. Like this upcoming card this weekend, the Fox card, Henderson versus Josh. Yeah. That's Josh Thompson.

Yeah. Fucking love that fight. That is a great fight. Ben Henderson and Josh Thompson. Yeah. That is going to be an exciting card. Where is that fight? That's in Chicago.

Huh. Yeah. Love that fight. I love both those guys. Those guys are... I love that Josh Thompson is finally getting his due. Yeah. He's been one of the top guys at 155 pounds for a long time.

And it took that Nate Diaz fight for people to see, you know, a focused, motivated Josh Thompson is undoubtedly world class. I mean, the first guy to stop Nate Diaz like that in the octagon. Do you remember anybody ever doing that to Diaz? It's tough as shit. Nate Diaz takes a hell of a punch. Hell of a punch.

He's durable as fuck. Josh Thompson stopping him was a huge victory. I mean, you really got to see what Josh is fully capable of. He's coming to his own, you know. He's got it all. He's a great wrestler. And those fights with Gilbert Melendez. Woo!

That last fight with Melendez in Strikeforce. What a fight that was. God damn, that was a fun fight. Yeah. That was a really, really close fight, too. A lot of people had Thompson winning that fight. It was very close, very controversial. And what a great it was gilbert melendez is a fucking savage yeah he's he's he's like an old school mexican boxer i love that dude yeah he's love watching that dude fight yeah

he'll go yeah like he chose to get in a fight like that with diego like he could have avoided that he could have fought like uh you know more tactical could have avoided that. He could have fought more tactical. Could have used his wrestling more. Nope. Just met him in the center and they both threw down. He fought Henderson the same way.

Yep. That was a very, very close fight as well. Very close fight. I love that these guys are so evenly matched because one or two or more are gonna have to rise to the occasion they're gonna have to see what's going on in this division you got a insane division where you got anthony pettis who's this uber talented kid ridiculous kicker i mean probably one of the best kickers in mma today one of the

best strikers like tactical strikers. He's so slick. And then you take him to the ground, and he's got laser-sharp jiu-jitsu. I mean, that arm bar was fucking magical. It was so perfect the way he set that up. And slapped it on. It was a vice. I mean, that was going nowhere. The fight was over.

That was, like, real high-level shit. So you got him, and then you got Benson who's fantastic and guarantee you he's going to be motivated as hell coming off of the loss and coming off of you know he just didn't think he was going to get caught in that position he was on top he thought he was okay kept getting caught like that losing twice in a row to him by the kickboxer yeah exactly right well you can't call Benison kickboxer no but you think too good. Yeah, then you don't think he's a kickboxer. You get kicked in the liver. Yeah. Well, I remember watching him on the ground before he was knocking. I mean, he's still always kicking really well and always doing really well.

But there was a couple of fights where he got taken to the ground where I was even more impressed with the way he cinched up a triangle on somebody. I forget the fight, but I was like, well, this kid is legit. Not just stand up, but he's dangerous as fuck from his back, which is rare among fighters. Fairly rare. He's definitely coming off of a, or comes from a very, very talented and creative camp. Yeah. Duke Rufus is a, what a gem of a human being too. Couldn't get a nicer guy to run your camp. And he runs it well. I think he's probably one of my favorites. Mine as well. He's a great coach. He's just a great guy too. I love sitting there and talking

to him and picking his brain. I've had long conversations with him, picking his brain about striking techniques and about what guys are doing differently and what you know what what you have to do to avoid this and why this guy's standing like this and he's setting up that and you know it's he's got such a wealth of knowledge you know yeah i'm more like just go you get no listen man you give great corner advice i'll tell you that yeah punch him in the no you know what's good about your corner advice you're you don't freak out you, punch him in the face. No, you know what's good about your corner advice? You don't freak out. You don't lose your calm.

You're always calming the guy down while you're in there. I'll never forget when Court fought that first big fight. Was it Ryan? God damn it. Yes, Ryan Jensen. That was the fight. And Ryan Jensen came out like a house on fire in the first round. He looked so huge, too. God damn, he looked good.

In that first fight, I mean, it was one of the best performances of Ryan's career, that first round. The first round of that fight. It was scary. And then you got him down. You got caught in between rounds, and you said, I'll never forget this because you're so calm you said don't worry your conditioning is going to take over you're going to take over from here and that dude came out like a goddamn john hackleman robot and just did exactly that just put it on him chased him down and eventually finished him and i was like wow that is a unbelievable turnaround of events because yeah it was because kyle looked so good in that fight

or ryan rather ryan jensen looked so good in that fight in that first round i mean he showed like his real potential he's a really talented kid that you know there's a lot of those guys that are like that these really talented kids that may or may not ever fight for the title but they had moments inside that cage where you're like, whoa, this guy's got potential. And I think that first round was one of them. But the way you were so calm and so, like, collected in the corner, you had a physically calming effect, you know, in all your experience and you're talking to him. That's pretty valuable shit to have in your corner, man.

Yeah, I was pretty nervous in that one. I think another close one in the corner was Clay Harvison against Justin Edwards. Get closer to that thing or pull it closer to you if you could. Yeah, I think another close one was Clay Harvison when he fought Justin Edwards. Yeah, very close fight. It was so close. Sometimes you can tell that the guy just needs this or that said, or either whether it be instruction, direction, or motivation.

I mean, you never tell a guy you're losing. Right. I'll never tell a guy he's losing because all he's going to hear, like when you're a parent and you tell the kid, you're acting stupid, all he hears is you're stupid, even though I have said that before as a parent, you tell the kid, you're acting stupid. All he hears is, you're stupid. Right. Even though I have said that before as a parent. But when you say, you're losing, you're going to lose.

Or anything with the word losing in it, it's a negative. And they're just going to hear, oh, shit, I lost. Right. And it takes a little bit, I think, out of them. What do you do, though, when a guy's lost four rounds in a row and you've got to give him some kind of instruction? You just go straight technical? Do you tell him he has to win this, you have to stop this fight?

You have to. So instead of saying, well, you lost the four rounds, you just say you have to win this one. Right. You have to win this next round. You have to knock him out or you're going to lose. And then you're going to lose your house and your kids and your wife will probably divorce you

and somebody will fucking take your lunch money when you get home that's a lot of pressure that's i think you put an extra pressure on them i don't know yeah so is that i'm human sometimes i get emotional does it vary does your approach vary depending on like the guy yes like different for chuck than maybe for syler yeah very. And you just have to feel the guy and then feel the fight. Because I've been doing corners since 74. Wow. 1974. That's insane.

Yeah, tell me. So I mean, I get, like I'm real emotional too, especially with my fighters. And I get, sometimes I'll have my own little breakdowns, but I don't want them to see it. Because I get very emotional. I've had like Chuck, Glover, I've had all my guys at one time or another go coach it's okay man just relax because i get really sometimes i get worked up too because i get really nervous because i don't like to see my guys see i'd rather have all my guys in my gym training having a great time doing hawaiian kempo doing pit stuff hitting bag, sparring once in a while, but nobody fighting.

That would be my dream come true. My passion is training people and having fun training with them and just having a martial arts school, putting our gis on and going to the beach on Saturdays with our gis and running, and everybody looks at us and we're just like, hey, what's up? But Chuck stopped all that, because that's the path I was on. I retired from fighting, and I didn't want to fight anymore. I hate fighting.

I hated fighting when I was fighting. But that's all I knew how to do, and that's what, it's a long story. Growing up in Hawaii, it wasn't a pretty picture. and that's what, it's a long story. Growing up in Hawaii, it wasn't a pretty picture. But then Chuck came to me one day and just said, hey, John, you think I can try fighting? I was like, what do you mean?

He was like, in the ring? I go, oh, fuck. Are you serious, bro? I've already fought enough for all of us. Let's just have fun training. He goes, I just want to try it. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. I go, all right, just a couple fights and see where it goes that was chuck liddell so so after that my plans of just having

a fun little martial arts school called the pit and a bunch of fun guys training and having a great time and wearing our gi all over the place and fanny packs and shit and it just it went to hell well what is it that's to fucking hell and never came back. One of the greatest careers in training ever, and it went to hell. It went to hell. You're silly. No, and then because Chuck, towards the end of his career, we decided, okay, we decided when he was going to retire,

and there was a little controversy on that with the Dana White thing. But we, I mean, all of us, including Dana, who, you know, we might have had a couple of interactions, but he loves Chuck like I do, and he always wanted the best for Chuck like I did. And it was like, but we're coming from different angles. I was a trainer and he was a promoter, you know. But we both loved Chuck and wanted the best for Chuck.

But then towards the end of his career, I go, oh, shit, okay, you take over the team and I'm just going to go work in my school and do what I love to do, the pit. And you can train the fighters and I'll help you out, but I don't want to travel anymore. I don't want to work anymore. And then my partner goes, all right, man, no problem. Yeah, yeah.

We see how that worked out. Now he's like a fucking Kardashian in Calabasas, and he doesn't even have the time basically for anything but to beat Chuck Liddell. And that's his life now. Yeah, well, he's a legend. He's a legend and a superstar, and there's nobody that deserves it more. Yeah, and he's a great representative of the sport. Of life.

Because he's a super nice guy. He's a great representative of being a man. Yeah, he certainly is. Being a family. He's the most loyal human alive. He's a very noble guy. Yeah, he is. People don't even know the stories about him.

He is that guy through and through and i mean i'm probably the closest to him and i just i know you know everything and so yes if it wasn't for one guy you wouldn't be known as a trainer i think i yeah probably could oh i wouldn't be training i think if it wasn't for him they'd still be you know some of the other guys that were around. But I'd be... You'd be a martial arts instructor. That's what I'd be, and I'd be so happy. What is it about the competition? What is it about fighting that is distasteful or you don't like or is nerve-wracking? What is it?

People you love competing. It makes me cry. I don't like to cry. I definitely don't like my guys to see me cry. How does it make you cry? It makes me sad just to see them get hit. Really? And just realizing what I went through when I was fighting

and not liking and not wanting to do it and then just wanting to be at a different place and getting so nervous and then the letdown of the fight, whether they win or lose. I mean, I don't mean letdown like if they lose, but just it's over now and you're just like, okay. But then I know I have to do it again. But I love these guys.

I mean, I love all of them. I mean, now that I've been involved in the sport, I've become like, you know, I just like all these guys, not even my own guys. There's so many guys out there. I hate to see, you know, i hate to see any of the guys lose and even worse than that i hate to see them get hurt because i know it hurts them you know so i just i just don't like that so yeah if it wasn't for chuck i'd be teaching karate happy as a pig and shit somewhere just going one two almost done let's go your take on chuck was hey he's going to

retire when he wants to retire when he chooses to retire. When he chooses to retire, he's a man. He's one of the great champions of all time. When he chooses to retire, that's when he retires. And Dana was like, look, that's it. You're retired. Yeah. And so that's where you guys had your issues. Yours was almost sort of out of maybe so much respect for the man and as a competitor that you're like, it's up to him.

He's got to make the decision. You can listen to my advice, but it doesn't him. He's got to make the decision. You can listen to my advice, but it doesn't matter. You've got to make the decision, whereas Dana was like, he loves him. I mean, no doubt about it. Dana fucking loves Chuck Liddell. He was the guy for his best. He's noble for a promoter. I mean, it's counter to his own financial interests.

Chuck was a huge pay-per-view draw. Still would be if he came back today. Imagine if Chuck Liddell came back today and him and Randy went at it again. Chuck and Randy four. Jesus Louise, that would be a big pay-per-view. It wouldn't happen. It wouldn't happen. It would never happen.

I don't care if a baseball bat break his legs. It would be like Nancy Kerrigan. But if it did, what I'm saying is it would be a huge, huge event. But the UFC would never do it. They would never do it. Well, first of all, yeah, they would never do it. But what people don't realize, including Dana, was I wanted Chuck to retire from before he even started.

I didn't want him to fight at all. So I was like, but now he's fighting, and he loves fighting. It's his passion. I mean, he's going to say he's going to quit. He's fighting, and he loves fighting. It's his passion. I mean, he's going to say he's going to quit. If I saw him get hurt really bad, like I did with Rich Franklin, right then it was done.

And right then I said, that's it. That's the last one. No more. And he didn't disagree. But, you know, emotions run high after the fight. So we decided right that night. We said, well, let's meet in such and such weeks. We're going to go hike Madonna, which is our mountain up there. And we'll talk about it and we'll decide then.

And we walked up Madonna and we said, you know what, no more. That's it. And we decided then and he came back down and announced it. That's awesome. That was awesome. Yeah. What about some of the other tough fights that he had had,

like the Rashad fight or the Shogun fight? There was that one, but I mean, to be honest, I've only seen Chuck knocked out that one time. Rashad? Yes. Like Al Colt? Yeah, the other times were, you know, like in boxing, there would have been a flash knockdown and he would have taken an eight count.

What about the Rich Franklin fight, though? But that one is the one, yeah. So those two are the ones who really went out. Well, to be honest, the Rich Franklin one, I didn't really notice the knockout as much as I did the cut. The cut just freaked me the shit out. You had a big cut. His upper lip was split in half. It freaked me out.

I mean, I i've seen you know i'm a i'm an er nurse i mean in la i've seen you know hearts open but this one is just it just to see someone i love so much like that it just freaked me out right so i was like never you will never fight again i don't give a shit you're never gonna fight again just that cut you know just freaked me the hell out. And he had such good plastic surgery, and it looks great now. And someone, yeah. Yeah, they fixed that perfect.

They did. They did an amazing job fixing that. They did a great job. And thanks to, we got a doc out of our town, Dr. Rushdie, who's a great ER doc. And he traveled to that fight. Dr. Rushdie, who's a great ER doc, and he traveled to that fight. And he actually went into the ER and said, no, we're going to do it this way. And they were going to just have a regular ER guy do it.

And he said, no, this is the lip. This needs plastic work. We're going to do it. So he went in and did his doctor thing and made sure it was done the right way the first time. Dr. Rusci was, I mean, Chuck has some really loyal friends because of his loyalty to people. And so that was lucky. So after the Rashad fight, what was the thinking? The thinking was just regroup.

Yeah, yeah, he got knocked out. I mean, that was the first time I've ever seen him be knocked out i mean i've seen him knocked down but that was hard but you know i mean how many guys have you seen that they came back yeah there's a lot sure um and yeah decided to regroup and see you know what how he's feeling you sure you want to fight okay let's go um but i was always pushing that but for him to retire but to just as a coach to keep putting that in his ear it's like well that's kind of like oh yeah i'm a great trainer i'm telling you to retire and i'm saying hit harder it's like right kind of going both ways so i kind of just let him as a grown man uh decide and then and like i said dana's input was very you know it was important and it was as well taken it was just i didn't i didn't want that always shoved in chuck's face

because i was more trying to build him up more i think those um watching a guy from the beginning to the end and watching the end like a guy Chuck, it's very important for young fighters to see that there's a window in this thing. Yeah. And you really, you don't have forever. You have a few years, and all depending entirely upon how much damage you take, how many injuries you get along the way. Genetics.

And genetics. Genetics, huge. And nutrition and health and taking care of yourself along the way as well. Alcohol and water all the way. Yeah, but you've got to be able to see that there's two different... TRT. There's a beginning. TR've got to be able to see that there's two different... TRT.

There's a beginning. TRT is another one. There's a beginning and then there's an end. And when it's over, it's over. Muhammad Ali's not going to come back and win the title. He's not going to get in the ring with Vladimir Klitschko and all of a sudden he starts dancing and everybody starts cheering. It's over. And that's not an extreme. People think it's an extreme but Muhammad Ali, I guarantee

you, can still remember the days when he was a boxer, when he was the fucking baddest motherfucker on earth, when he was lighting up Cleveland Williams. You know, just hitting him with unbelievable combinations, fleet of foot. I'm sure that's still in his head. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard for... It's hard for all of them. Yeah, it was hard for me to retire. And I was never, you know, anywhere in that that you know i never tasted the the fruits of of

superstardom as a fighter i never got you know my ears blown out by raging crazy crowds like chuck did when he walked into the cage and then then to to retire from that you know we can never understand it no it was hard it was i mean because i, you know, I'd walk in with them and I'd be, wow, they really like me. So you brought up TRT. And I think this is a huge subject in MMA right now. And I had a doctor on who's a specialist in traumatic brain injuries. His name is Dr. Mark Gordon. And he's a friend of mine.

And he treats people all the time, soldiers, football players, people with traumatic brain injuries that are trying to recover. And one of the symptoms is a lack of testosterone. It's one of the major symptoms of traumatic brain injuries. And one of the major causes of depression, a lack of energy, is that their brain, in just getting rattled, it does a lot of damage to the pituitary gland. And what he says is the pituitary gland is very sensitive to impacts, whether it's car accidents or falling down or just banging your head on things. Even soccer players just hitting the soccer ball over long periods of time can really

fuck you up. And, you know, when you realize that, okay, well, you're, you're dealing with professional fighters, professional fighters that are on testosterone replacement. Well, why are they on testosterone replacement? What's going on? Are they on testosterone replacement because they have a legitimate medical condition or is it because they're, they're just slowly starting to age and they would like a little pep back in their step or is it because they've been hitting the head so many times their body's not producing testosterone as much as it should?

And if that's the case, that's a very tricky subject, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I'm not a doctor. I'm a karate guy. But I have my opinion on testosterone is like unless you have like Klinefelter syndrome or some other low T sickness or disease, I think your T is going to be normal. I think your testosterone is normal unless you've taken it in the past and i think i i would be willing to bet i'd be willing to bet that okay so repetitive you know chronic brain trauma okay i i think you know the endocrine and the pituitary working together with the testes which is producing the testosterone i think um rattling

the brain can cause a low t but i think it can also cause a high T because when you're messing with it, some guys get extra high T's like an HGH. I mean it throws it off. So you think getting a hit in the head can actually increase your production of testosterone? I think it can alter it. That's interesting. I think it can alter it. Is this just a theory? That's interesting.

I think can alter it. Is this just a theory? I think it's, yeah, it's a theory because, and I think everybody's is a theory because I think they can show, but I would be willing to bet that, I'd say, I don't know a number. I'll throw a number. 95% of guys that are doing TRT or they have a low T, testing for low T, and they're in their 20s or 30s, they've done some type of steroid in the past. I'd be willing to bet that.

Yeah, that's a pretty safe bet. And so I think that is why their T is low much more than them getting hit. And if they have been getting hit that much, I think other symptoms would manifest themselves before a low T, such as slurring in the speech, memory, cognitive alterations and stuff like that. I think dementia pugilistica, which is getting hit too much, that's what they call the chronic brain injury. I think it would manifest itself in a lot of different ways before their T started lowering. In boxing, you'll see a lot more because they get hit, I mean they get hit thousands of times more

than they do in MMA because of the wrestling, the clinching, the jiu-jitsu, et cetera. But I think people are in T because they've taken it in the past, so now it's low, so they go to a doctor and a doctor says, oh yeah, you have low T. Here's a prescription for T. Now they're on T. It certainly is possible.

That certainly is a possible scenario. But one of the things that this doctor, Dr. Mark Gordon, has figured out is that it could be just one head injury. One time falling down. It doesn't slur your words. You don't. Just one. One head kick. So one acute injury. One. It doesn't evenur your words just one so one acute injury it doesn't really have to be that brutal

that's what's scary about it that one can throw it off it might not throw it off but just much like how Chuck Liddell could take a terrific punch some guys can't take a punch at all it's just the way it is it's the way it's always going to be

we're not all built uniformly durable and for some people one traumatic incident whether it's getting going to be. We're not all built uniformly durable. And for some people, it's just nothing but one traumatic incident, whether it's getting hit in the head by a golf ball. They're never the same again. And you think it's never the same again their T-level or never the same again? It's very possible. Very possible that they're connected, that head injury can disrupt the production of testosterone, growth hormone.

The pituitary gland is very sensitive, apparently, according to him. And he said, a lot of guys get through it no problem. They have long careers as football players, and they're okay. I mean, there's more than one who've gone through football and not suffered brain damage. It's not 100%. Everybody gets brain damage. But he said, one real good concussion, one real good head injury,

the whole thing could get thrown off. So I don't know. I wouldn't want to just give people the false courage that like, or the false idea that if you don't slur your words, you don't have brain damage. Or if you don't slur your words, you didn't have an injury. Right. No, I'm not saying you do or don't, but I'm just saying, I think those symptoms would manifest themselves before an actual clinical or diagnostic test where your T is all of a sudden low. And I'd like to see how that test was. If they know it was one punch that knocked them out, then all of a sudden was this T low before or after? I mean, it would have to be a pretty precise double-blind study that had been done for a while.

And maybe it is right. I mean, I'm guesstimating. But just being around the sport long enough and knowing that I've seen guys just get pounded and pounded and pounded, and they just seem pretty T. Tee'd up still. Yeah. They're fine. They've never taken T.

But I have heard a lot of guys throughout their career start slurring their speech, their memory. I've seen other things. But I mean, it's definitely an interesting study. So if their tea is low because of that one punch, then okay, so you give them tea. But if there's other things also manifesting themselves and they're actually getting early signs of dementia pugilistica, then they probably shouldn't be fighting anyway.

Yeah, that's the big question is that if you've incurred a head injury, and the head injury, even if it was only one, is somehow or another alting your brain's ability to produce hormones, maybe you shouldn't be getting more head injuries. So maybe you shouldn't be in a sport where the number one thing that people want to do is give you a head injury. Like, that seems to be counterproductive. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah.

So we're a subject because, you know, so many guys are on testosterone replacement therapy now. I mean, it's a super, super common situation. It's too common. Too common? Yeah, it's way too common. I mean, and like your doctor, Dr. Gordon, I'd love to read that, by the way, before we go. Can you give me that?

Yeah, I'll get you connected to his stuff online. I'm very interested in the different stuff that happens to fighters medically. But I'd be willing to bet that the guys are on it because they want to recover quicker from training. I think they want better, quicker results. And I think what they don't realize is you've got a 20-some-year-old, 30-year-old guy, and now he's doing TRT because he got some, I'm not going to say quack doctor, but he got some guy to say, okay, you're low.

And it's easy to say you're low because you go, I mean, you do cycle your hormones and, you know, so you could be on the low end of normal. So they give you your testosterone. Now you're a 27-year-old guy. You're taking your TRT, and so it goes up to normal. It goes a little higher usually when you're training. Then they cycle it down before the test, you know, so they're normal at the test.

But now with that abuse of the TRT or your testosterone, now your career is over. You're 32. But now you need to take TRT for the rest of your life. Yeah, you shut your production down. So now you're 45 years old and you find yourself in between jobs. How about 25? We've had guys in the UFC that were 25 years old that had testosterone use exemptions. Yeah.

That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, that seems crazy. Okay, so you're 25 and you're not fighting anymore and you don't have insurance and you don't have the money to pay for that weekly testosterone shot. insurance and you don't have the money to pay for that weekly testosterone shot, I'm not a doctor, but I would think that if it does shut it down or if it even inhibits it like Lupron does, then are you going to start growing breasts and a vagina? I don't know.

Yes, for sure. What's Lupron? Lupron is what we give sexual offenders. It's chemical castration. Oh, wow. So that's what we'd – I would give the – like the sex offenders in the – when I worked at the prison or the state hospital, I would give them their monthly Lupron. So it would keep their – it's a testosterone inhibitor. So they can't – so they don't – they think that testosterone is what's making them rapists, which I don't think it is, but whatever.

They think that testosterone is what's making them rapists, which I don't think it is, but whatever. So we give it to them, and then if you gave them a little extra by mistake once in a while, then they start growing breasts. I don't think they actually grew a vagina. That was kind of a joke, but they do soften up, and their facial hair goes away, and they become curvy like a woman and become more alluring to the other inmates really yes so they would you would not saying you would someone might might do that on purpose to make them more sexually attractive to the inmates to create a fattened cow as it were it might yeah that would work that way it's sort of like that right it's like fattening up a cow for the slaughter. Wow. Luke Brown was fun. He was fun as a nurse. I mean, because it's a testosterone inhibitor,

so it turns the man into a woman. So it would be like, but so I would think you're being on TRT as a fighter, a young fighter, then all of a sudden you're being on TRT as a fighter, a young fighter, then all of a sudden you're not taking it. If you don't have insurance and you can't afford the testosterone, you're screwed. Yeah, you're in bad shape. It'll take a while for your body to rebound and start producing its own testosterone. I'm going to try it. I had a fighter not too long ago, an older fighter, and he's on testosterone.

He couldn't believe I wasn't on it. I've never taken anything in my life. I mean, the closest thing I've ever taken, closest thing I've come to get testosterone is Top Ramen. Top Ramen does not give you testosterone. I don't know. TRT, Top Ramen Therapy. Top Ramen Therapy.

That's what I used to take back home. No. No? No, that doesn't work. That guy fooled me. Dude, he lied to you so hard. You need to get your money back. Because I was on TRT, and that's what I thought it always meant.

Oh, you were just eating ramen noodles. Top Ramen Therapy. It's one of the things I miss about being gluten-free. Ramen noodles. Chicken flavored, I would do two of them. Two of those packages together, you know, sometimes I'd crack an egg in that bitch. I would put like six eggs and just let it boil in them. Two of those packages together. Sometimes I'd crack an egg in that bitch. I would put like six eggs and just let it. It would boil in them.

Ooh, that's nice. Yeah. Damn, I wish I could eat that. Can't eat that anymore. You're gluten-free? Yeah, my face got thinner. I look much more sexy. Yeah, you are sexy.

But I'm not saying I like. Speaking of liking men, and I'm not going to talk about me liking men because that's something that happened a while ago, but my fighter. You know, I have the world's only bisexual, bipolar, and bilingual fighter. Who's that? Who do you think? Antonio Banuelos. Oh, I didn't know Banuelos was all of those things. Yeah, he is.

Is he really? Yeah. It's openly? I didn't know this. Oh, yeah. You go on his Facebook and he has pictures of him in a dress and stuff. Holla. He's one tough mother-of-a-bird.

Oh, fuck yeah, he is. Very good fighter. Oh, my God, he is. Been around for a while. He was the guy when Floyd Mayweather was talking shit. Yeah. Chuck Liddell was like, look, I got a guy who weighs 135 pounds. One million.

Drop you on your fucking head. Bet you a million. He bet him a million. Yeah, and he would win that money. Oh. You can't. Floyd Mayweather's a fucking phenomenal boxer. Yeah.

But the difference between a phenomenal boxer and a guy who has the ability to stop a guy like Ben Wallace from taking him down, good fucking luck. I learned that the hard way. Good luck. A guy like that could take a guy who's not a boxer 70 pounds heavier down. A guy who doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah. 70 pounds heavier down. A guy who doesn't know what he's doing, if you're light and quick, you think you're going to move out of the way, you're not going to.

He's going to shoot on one, you're going to defend that, he gets the other, clamp his hands together, you're going for a fucking ride. Up in the air, boom, down on your head, he's dropping hammer fists on you. It's not a boxing match.

No, I know. And our karate guys in my neighborhood. I mean, in my own neighborhood, don't go to a pit. That guy wastes his time. He teaches people takedown defense and takedowns and groundwork. He goes, we don't waste our time with that.

We hit them while they're coming in and we knock them out. They'll never get us to the ground. That's actually a good idea. Did you ever try that? It's a good strategy. With a crane strike. I tried it with a crane strike and it didn't work. You ever seen monkey paw?

Do you practice monkey paw on each other? Drunken monkey? I guess a monkey would just wrist you. How would you take a guy down if he's monkey? What about a dragon? What is a dragon? Dragon claws? Is that tiger claw tiger claw dragon breathing the fire oh fire or a snake or something they you cannot take a guy down if he knows that

shit and all the martial arts that were sort of exposed or integrated into mixed martial arts the one that got really left out of the fucking dance was kung fu. Boy, did kung fu get fucking left out. The music stopped and kung fu was standing. In the musical chairs game of life, kung fu was the standing motherfucker at the end of the martial arts parade. I mean, judo came in. A lot of people probably would have thought judo

not the most effective. Shodokan. It's strong. Shodokan karate. They were laughing at that. They're not laughing when they get kicked in the head by Lyoto Mishida. Yeah, Shodokan, Taekwan. They were laughing at that. They're not laughing when they get kicked in the head by Ryota Mishida. Yeah.

Shotokan, Taekwondo guys. Taekwondo. Muay Thai guys were. Pettis. He owns a karate school. Exactly. Pettis is a full Taekwondo guy. He's the black belt under Master Bill Clark.

Yeah. And a real good one, too. The way he throws those kicks, very Taekwondo-like, where he's got no chambering. There's no step before he throws that kick. Laugh guys yeah wrestlers yeah don't yeah don't sleep on it look at that edson barboza landing that wheel kick you're starting to see all these these techniques now vitor landing it now vitor at 35 years of age or 36 years of age whatever he is there's all of a sudden the taekwondo black belt he's throwing wheel kicks kicks. He is. Head kick, head kick bisping. It's like, what the hell, man?

Yeah. The fucking, the Dan Henderson fight? Vitor that just fought Dan Henderson? That was like, you're watching me like, is he fucking getting better? Is he better somehow or another? I mean, Chuck fought him back in 2001, right? When was that? UFC 37 and a half.

Yeah, I don't remember. 2002? A long time ago. You know, it half? Yeah, I don't remember. 2002? It was the first one I ever commentated. It was Chuck on Best Damn Sport Show. One of those things. They held the fights. And Vitor back then was still world class.

He was still fighting against guys like Chuck. And then you look at him today and he's actually better. All those years later this is him against Luke Rockwell. I mean, Jesus Christ. And that's against Luke Rockwell? Look at this shit. Look how sweet this wheel kick is, man.

I mean, you would never believe that he wasn't a lifelong Taekwondo student. He's a ridiculous fucking athlete. He is. He is. And I don't think he's necessarily better than he was way back then. He's a lot different because then he had a different, like that blitz he had was world class. Yes, no doubt. Like the Vanderlei fight.

He's much more well-rounded now, yeah. Look at this shit, man. Who the fuck saw that coming? The guy throws it two times in his career, both in one fight. Yeah, yeah. He's definitely a much more well-rounded fighter than he was. And go back to him when people were thinking it was over with him when he was fighting Sakuraba in Pride.

Remember that fight? They were like, it's over for Vitor. It's done. He breaks his hands too easy. He gave up against Sakuraba. He's been through a ride. He's been through a ride. The sister thing?

Oh, my God. He's been through so much stuff. Yeah, ride. The sister thing? Oh, my God. He's been through so much stuff. Yeah, for folks who don't know. The whole Jesus and stuff. His sister was kidnapped and murdered. She was murdered? Yes, yes. I thought she was just kidnapped and they found her.

No, no, she's murdered. Yeah, she was murdered. It's a terrible, terrible, terrible story. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's a horrible story. And that haunted him for a long time, man. But whatever the reasons are, it seems like now, at this stage of his career, here's him against Sakuraba.

I mean, this is just a totally different guy than the guy we're seeing now. I mean, Sakuraba beat his ass. Sakuraba? Where the hell is he? He's done. I know. He took too many. The Melvin-Manhoof fight. Did you see that?

No. Jesus. We'll pull up Sakuraba versus Melvin-Manhoof. Melvin-Manhoof, one of my all-time favorite fighters. Because the guy, win, lose, or draw, came in throwing missiles at you. Knocked out

Mark Hunt in the fucking first round. Yeah, fought him in a kickboxing bout and knocked him out. No, it was MMA. Mark Hunt was shooting him for the takedown and he caught him and knocked him out. He's just a wild crazy fucking fighter. Is he from England or something? He's from Holland.

Classic Dutch kickboxer. And super ridiculously built. Just a fucking freak athlete. And he put a horrendous beating on Sakuraba. It was one of the last beatings of Sakuraba's career. It's like the Japanese, they threw him in. Oh, yeah.

They threw him in to the, remember? Vanderlei. Just beat the shit out of him. They just kept throwing him in over and over. Here's Melvin Manhoof. You've seen this guy fight before, right? Yeah, yeah. Where's the gladiator trunks?

Yeah. He's such a destroyer. And he's a guy who's a do-or-die guy. Yeah. Like, Robbie Lawler knocked him out. He was going after Robbie Lawler. Yeah. And Robbie Lawler caught him and put him in dream time. But look at this horrendous beating.

Once he got Sakuraba down, and this was sakuraba just couldn't do it anymore you know there was just nothing left his knees were all completely wrapped up like a mummy and look manhoef is just fucking hammering him throwing his guard to the side like it's non-existent laying on top of him and just pounding on him i mean just look at these hammer fists while he's out cold. Ruthless, ruthless, ruthless shit. Yeah. Yeah. And he took a lot of those. Look at this.

Jesus Christ, look at this fucking head kick. God damn, man. Hoof is a monster. That whole team, Mike's gym in Holland. What a group of savages. Like Badr Hari, him. He's got Alistair for a while. Actually, from what I understand, Alistair is training in Thailand

for this upcoming fight with Mir, which should be very interesting to see how that goes. Looks like he lost a lot of weight, too. They had a photo of him recently online, and it looks like he's lost a massive amount of mass. Yeah, because when he fought Chuck, he could barely make 200 pounds.

Well, 205, 203? Is that what it was in pride i think i'll go with 199 but i think he had a hard time making 205 i think i mean gaining the weight yeah really i thought it was the opposite what i had always understood was that in pride yeah he got better when he stopped cutting weight because cutting weight to make 205 was apparently brutal on him because he would always gas out i don't know that's not the way i remember it oh okay yeah i remember him being super lanky and skinny and barely making be able to make 205 that's interesting yeah like this is like when he fought chuck yeah hmm yeah because there was a whole weird weigh-in process and because it's in japan right different yeah those are the vanderlei days too man oh god like the vanderlei that stopped rampage the vanderlei stopped sakuraba here was

a guy that even though i love martial artists and guys who show a lot of respect and bow to each other and you know and then go at it vanderlei didn't want none of that shit. He was a wild dog who was coming at you like a demon. Yeah. I mean, to be honest, though, I see him. I see the martial arts in him. He might not have brought it out in the ways. But I actually saw it. I even saw it in Rampage.

Rampage, to me, Rampage for the persona of the camera and stuff, and sometimes off camera, I guess. Well, there was actually a camera, because the whole truck thing. I don't remember that. Remember that truck thing when he had too many energy drinks or something? Yeah, yeah, he went crazy.

But even those days, I just always saw him as, I saw through that, and I just saw him as I saw through that. And I just saw him as a very respectful guy. I always did. Yeah. I don't know why. I agree.

He talks a lot of trash, and he's smart, and he knows how to promote fights in that regard. But yeah, he's always been a very easy-to-talk-to guy. There's very few guys that aren't in the MMA world. You can think of many boxers, like that guy that threw the chair at the referee. Who was that guy? Threw a chair at a referee. He hit a referee or something. When was this?

Recently? It was a while ago, and he just fought recently. He lost again. I forget his name. His dad used to train him. I forget his name. But, I mean, in boxing, it just seems like it just didn't have that martial art edge. I can think of so few MMA guys.

Like when I go to the UFC and it's just being around these guys, it's just they're so nice and respectful. And just like all of them, it's like you're being at some kind of happy party, camping. Like you're at a conference full of happy respectful people right and it's like i don't i can't think of many that aren't what is the general feeling amongst the fighters that you're involved with about trt um about my guys no not even you know about how they feel about it in general. Is there a general consensus? I think it's now

because it's now legal and whatever powers to be made it legal for whatever crazy reason. I think it's a lot of the guys just think I need it to stay competitive just like probably most other sports but I wish it wasn't because it was a lot more fun without it.

To me, it's almost like the weight cut thing. The weight cut thing has just gone crazy with weight cuts, rehydration, IVs. I mean, it wasn't like that before. It is strange. And the amount that they're losing is just staggering. Some guy's just losing 30 pounds, 35 pounds, and they're fighting at 170. Yeah. You know, they're way over 200 pounds

before they start their cut. I put six bags in a guy once after a weigh-in. Wow. I mean, that's a lot. And you could just see him on the bed after the weigh-in just look like a skeleton and just so lethargic. And then, like, two bags in, he's, like, coming to life. And then, like, six bags later, he's like

dancing around, dancing around. He's like a regular guy again. It's just so unhealthy. It's just, it's crazy. Electrolyte, you know, you throw your body into this crazy electrolyte imbalance. And it's like, I mean, your whole electrolyte is a, is a, is a, you know, not only does it affect your acid base, you know, you have all that alkaline acidity, and it also affects the electrical wiring in your body because that's what makes your electric wiring work. And you have a really important electric wiring between your AV node and your sinus node in your heart. And if that electrical doesn't happen every single beat, it's not going to beat.

So it's such a fun – and your brain is all electricity. So to throw that off just to cut weight, and you do, because, you know, you have the electrons of the, you know, you have the potassium, the chloride, the magnesium, you know, it's just, it's a crazy thing that people put themselves in such harm's way to make weight because they want to be competitive to fight the next day in such another dangerous sport. And they're both becoming almost equally dangerous. Yeah. And now you throw TRT into that mix, and now it's becoming a whole different sport. Yeah, that weight cutting thing is a real issue that doesn't seem to have an easy solution.

I think it does. What's the easy solution? Weigh him in the day of the fight? Weigh him in right when they walk in. Yeah, but what if someone doesn't make the weight? What are you going to do? There's a lot of guys like Diego Brandt, Al's last fight. Yeah. Perfect example, him and Dustin Poirier.

Kid just didn't make weight. Yeah. He was way over. So what do you do? What if that happens there? What do they do? Well, they let him fight. But too many guys are going to take advantage of that.

They're going to come in heavier than their opponent and go, what, are you scared? Not that they lose 20 pounds or 20% each time. Yeah, I mean, that could be a solution, have the guy who doesn't make the weight. But still, if the guy just keeps winning because he's not cutting weight and you are cutting weight and you're getting skinnier and he's not and he's coming in full and healthy, cutting weight and you're getting skinnier and he's not and he's coming in full and healthy it just seems to be an unfair advantage to a person who's not like thinking evenly doesn't doesn't even care about the are you talking about the day in day before the day of the day of but i'm saying day of when i'm in day of but but too many people would be like yeah i guess i didn't

make weight whatever and they'll come in not weakened at all. Right. But then the guy will step in the ring that made the weight. He'll be 205. And the average isn't like that Diego guy. He was 6 pounds or 5 pounds. What was he? How many?

I think he was at least 5 pounds. I mean, for that weight class, that's crazy. Actually, I think he was 53, so I believe he was eight pounds over. But he had been in a car accident. He had a bunch of issues. There was a lot of things wrong. So guys, which is the average, and even guys get cut the 20%, a pound or a half pound? I mean, it's more.

Yeah, when they're usually over, they're over by a pound or a half pound. So it's the exact same if it would be the same the day of or the day before. He walks in the cage a pound over, he gets 20%, and the other guy weighs in a pound less. He's still only outweighing him by a pound. Yeah, I could see giving them maybe like five pounds if they're going to do it the day of. Almost like they have to fall in a five-pound radius or ratio. Or it could be more per, like, if you're a half pound to a pound and a half, it's X amount of percentage and it could go up accordingly. Yeah, the real worry that people have is that on the day of the fights that people would

lose weight anyway, still dehydrate themselves and not really have enough time to properly rehydrate and then it could be really dangerous because most of the like the really severe injuries that have happened inside uh boxing rings especially most of them have taken place in the lighter weight classes because there's an increased danger because of dehydration right because the balance is is more yeah yeah i would do you tell your guys, do you have like a cutoff where you don't want them losing any more weight than this? Yes and no. I mean, most of my guys are pretty good about it. I don't have too many crazy weight cutters.

But, I mean, to be honest, you know, I try to train them and I try to direct them in a lot of ways. But to me, that's a really personal thing. And I can't get in their body and feel what they're, you know, how much they're hurting and how much weight and how their body feels. So, like, I knew how much I had to cut when I was fighting. But I don't want to go into their body, you know, and say, you know, you can't do this. And some guys just look, you know, a lot worse off than they are. And some guys don't look that bad off and are.

So it's hard. It's a hard one. I mean, so they're grown men. They've been doing, most of them have been doing it a long time. So I let them kind of dictate. If I see something crazy, I'll say something. But, you know. Do you have any female fighters?

No. No. No, I have in the past. I'm not crazy about it at all. In what way? I mean, without sounding chauvinistic. Too late. No, I think like this sport, like my daughter was a basketball player and she got a scholarship to college on basketball and did great

and she was one of the best basketball players for a girl you know and you can say that for a girl because when they play next to the guys you know they're not it doesn't look anything like the same thing except when she played her name is jellybean and she was great i'm gonna get so much trouble but but when you watch two girls fight there's no difference these freaking girls are are animals and they're great, and they're hearts. I mean, they're getting fight of the nights, and they're freaking fighting. But when they get cut, I mean, it's a different – we're different. I mean, we're a different gender,

and it's more acceptable for a man to have his scars in his face, you know, the cauliflowers and stuff, but mainly, like, the scars all over the flat nose. It's just more acceptable for society. I don't think it will be. So when you have now the girls fighting, when they're retiring, I don't think you'll have a whole different class of girls that are scarred up and stuff.

That would bother me. If a girl came back and she was one of my fighters and she had a cut, I would just throw the towel on. I just hate that. I hate to see that. And that's chauvinistic, but sorry. But the way they fight is unbelievable. I mean, these girls are every bit as good.

I mean, like when you watch most sports and then watch a guy play it, it's different sports, you know? But when you watch two girls fighting, some of these girls, and then watch two guys fighting, it's just they have longer hair. And it's still there. I mean, they're that good. Amisha Tate and Ronda Rousey was an amazing fight. Yeah, and the other girl that's... Wild and fun. Yeah, and so

their skills and their heart is unbelievable. I just don't like the cuts and the damage that's gonna... I totally understand where you're coming from. Yeah, I, for whatever reason, accept it easier when I see it on a man as well. I'm accepting it when I see women busted up. I mean, it is a part of what it is. But if I saw a really deep gash, like I've seen Marvin Eastman or maybe some of the other guys.

Some people have had some pretty bad gashes inside the Octagon. If that's a girl, that's going to be interesting how people accept that culturally, you know? Yeah, and then culturally, you know, after her career's over, I mean. I should be known as some badass former fighter chick. Yeah. Some people like that shit. They probably will. Some dudes like girls with tattoos all over their bodies and some on their face and

yeah like that too so they might be scarred lots of character in a woman john hackleman yeah i'm a little shallow chauvinistic but uh well you you know you uh i was fucking seven years old when you were refereeing fights yeah yeah i've been in this business a long time i remember cutting weight when I was cutting weight and I was like, I didn't know how to cut weight. I didn't have a me coming up. Yeah. I didn't have a, I didn't have a guy like me coming up. I was just like, okay, I read a book, I do this. So I started cutting weight. You know, you cut weight, you know, usually 24 hours out. Okay. And you start, you know, drying out and, and, you know, that's when your water intake goes

down and you're, you start sweating out, you know, that's when your water intake goes down and you start sweating out. You know, it's never more than 24 hours. So you're not going to, you know. I didn't know that. I was like a week out and fucking wearing plastic suits and a down jacket, you know, jogging down the beach trying to cut my weight. And I was like, I didn't know any different. A lot of people did it that way for a long time. A long time, yeah.

And they just basically starved themselves up to the fight yeah yeah and uh and we'd be wearing combat boots and and you know this is yeah so i didn't have a me coming up but but that's that's just the way we did it back home your uh your training methods like where did you learn all these different things that you like you're famous for having guys do a lot of like manual labor type stuff and you know carry rocks in a fucking wheelbarrow and run uphill with it and where'd you where'd you come up with this uh idea this these routines i've been doing them for a long time um i think just i've always had that old, chauvinistic, just an old school guy, you know, even when I was younger. And kind of like the Rocky III, you know. And I actually have a Rocky III experience where I was training hard.

I was like that Rocky guy and knocking my guys out. I was training hard. I was like that rocky guy and knocking my guys out. And then I got married to an older woman who was much more refined. And she lived in Woodland Hills in the suburbs. And I went from ghetto Van Nuys, a really bad place in Van Nuys, Delano Street. So she cultured you and made you soft. A little soft.

I would do my workouts here in Woodland Hills. It might even still be here, Racquetball World. I don't know where that is. So anyway, I'd do my workout on the Stairmaster, and I was training for this guy, and his name was Charlie Archie. They called him Mr. C. He had a mohawk, and I got set up to fight him. He outweighed me by 31 pounds, but we thought we'd take him anyway. And my trainer, I was training at the Jet Center with Benny the Jet Ukitis.

Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. And I just went in there, like, smiling and training at the, you know, the thing. And I went in the ring. Instead of being Eye of the Tiger, I went over and shook his hand, you know. And he dropped me with a body shot wow and i got up and we battled for a little while i dropped him and he dropped me with another body shot because once you get hit with a body shot and it's it's you're pretty much i mean

if the guy knows how to do it unless you're arturo gatti you know so i think he dropped me three times in two rounds the referee finally stopped it and um and i just remember you know so I think he dropped me three times in two rounds the referee finally stopped it and um and I just remember you know just thinking I had the tiger I got I lost my other tag and I remember thinking that and thinking I got soft and so I went back to my old gym I went back to hardcore training and I got a rematch with him and I ended up fighting him twice more uh and beating him twice but. But it's that I always had that hardcore eye of the tiger, you know, running the train tracks, being a tough guy. You know, it's kind of, you know, a lot of it's kind of outdated and stuff, but it seems to work for my guys.

Outdated in what way? Outdated in the way the current science of physical conditioning approaches it? Yeah. Doesn't that shit alter all the time? It changes. There's been so many things. the way the current science of physical conditioning approaches it. Doesn't that shit alter all the time? It changes. There's been so many things. And I'm a firm believer in progression and learning new techniques, like in the old pit. I came up from a martial art back in Honolulu, Hawaii,

called kaju kempo, karate, judo kempo, and boxing. kaju kempo you know karate judo kempo and boxing and it was a hardcore art formed in hawaii by five guys in 1947 mainly for street fighting and it was uh it was built that way um and it was pretty hardcore you know growing up in hawaii white kid you know kill haole day etc so i wanted to be a tough guy haole for people don't know, is what Hawaiians call white people. Yeah, it's usually fucking Howley. So that's my Howley pride tattoo. You have a Howley pride tattoo. Which she didn't go over, but, but they don't like, you know, but,

you know, so I have Howley pride and definitely Hawaiian roots. I love the islands and I love Hawaii, but it wasn't easy growing up there. It wasn't. I mean, I didn't come from a ghetto. You know, my dad was a hardworking newspaper writer. And my mom was a great, you know, stay-at-home mom and had a lot of love for my parents.

But growing up in Hawaii, they do not like Haole's. And, you know, going to school in Hawaii, it was usually fucking Haole this, fucking Haole that. Go back to the mainland Haole. Give me lunch money Haole. What the fuck are you looking at Haole, you know. So there was a lot of that. So I started training really early and it was a hardcore art. And I always stuck with a lot of those old training things, training principles and training techniques and stuff. And those kind of stay with me even though things have come and things have gone. I always knew that the old school training techniques weren't going anywhere.

So I go back and forth with them, and they seem to work for me. And then I got introduced to CrossFit in like the early 2000s, and I got to be good friends with Greg Glassman, the owner. And we came up together with CrossFit because we thought you know crossfit's great but we should I wanted it specific for my fighters and my students so we started cross pit and um so it's like crossfit with more of a martial art feel and and I consider our system CrossFit. And, um, so that, you know, there's the wheelbarrows and stuff. And what do you do specifically? You have wheelbarrows, you fill them with rocks, you put weights in them. Like what do you do? Um, um, I put weights in them

because I want to know what they weigh. So, um, usually there's different workouts I do with them, but they're going up a hill cause I live on a hill. So it's different weights for different exercises. Some are shorter Tabata sprints, 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off. So you do use scientific training principles. Tabata is a very good protocol for conditioning. Yeah. Tabata for people listening to this, T-A-B-A-T-A. I first found out about it because my friend John Rallo, he started using it. So it really helps a lot. It does.

And it was formed by some Kenji Tabata, some Japanese exercise physiologist who came up with that. And he proved it in his, you know, anybody can do their own test, but he proved it by doing these 20-second on, 10-second off protocol only eight times. So that's four minutes. And then he would have this other group, Group B, do a five-mile run every day. And then he proved that his four-minute Tabata protocol would get in better shape than these five-mile runners every day. So whatever, whatever that works or not, I do my Tabatas. Um, I probably do a couple of workouts every week and I throw Tabatas in and I think it's a good. There's something about, um, those old school strength and conditioning drills, like manual work type things like the Rocky three scenario where he's running, or was it Rocky

four where he's in Siberia and he's carrying logs around? Yeah. What is it about those old school training methods that are so appealing to us? I think we're wired, you know, in our DNA. You know, we're wired to be, you know, our endocrine systems and all of our, you know, we're wired to be either fight or flight, right? Isn't that what, I mean, so our, and flight is running. And then fight is fighting. So that's how we're wired. I mean, so we could play basketball and that's great and run around,

you know, throw the ball and stuff. But I mean, we're wired fight, and we're wired to run, and we're wired to be strong, and we're wired to carry big boulders in the snow. Yeah, but that was my point. I feel like when you saw George Foreman when he made his comeback, one of the things about George Foreman's training routine was he had really unorthodox methods, like he would take a jeep and strap it to him and pull it. And he'd just be this big giant guy pulling a fucking jeep behind him. He also did a lot of manly shit, like he chopped a lot of wood.

You know, he chopped a lot of logs, swung an axe all the time. And swinging an axe is like basically a CrossFit type move. I mean, it really is like a really good strength and conditioning move for your whole body. Yeah. But it's also manly. He's out there getting the fucking firewood chopped up. He's a man. He's getting his work done.

There's something appealing about a guy out there in the snow chopping wood as opposed to some foo-foo with tights doing crunches in the gym with his feet up in the air. You know, with his little fucking baby socks on. There's something better about a guy smashing wood with a fucking axe, right? It's more manly. Hell yeah. Fuck yeah, right? Yeah, we do that. There's a guy named Cameron Haynes, and he's a famous bow hunter.

And he also trains for bow hunting and gets in really good shape. For a lot of people that don't realize, when these guys go bow hunting, they have to carry giant chunks of meat down hills. So if you shoot an elk, you have to stuff your pack with 150 plus pounds and make it down a mountain or make it up a mountain. You might have to go to the top and then go over.

These guys have to get in some serious shit because they have to bring their meat back. For what? If you shoot an animal, if you go doing some camping and bow hunting, you make a camp, and then you've got to go into the woods and find the animals. They're not going to come to you. So you have to walk miles in. Then you shoot one.

Well, it weighs 1,200 pounds, John Hackleman, and you're going to have to get that fucking thing back seven miles, nine miles to your camp, and it might take you three days to do it, where all day, all you're doing is walking to the body, cutting 100 pounds of meat off, putting it in a backpack, and walking back to the camp again, over and over and over again, trying to fill the truck up. Well, this guy, Cameron Haynes, he trains for that. He gets in shape for it. He takes a giant rock, a 130-pound rock, puts it in a backpack, and walks up to the top of a mountain. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen on YouTube. It's fantastic.

He has the meat. He was pretending it's meat. He throws a rock in there. But he does this to get his meat? Exactly. Is he fucking Vons? No, he likes it. You don't get elk at Vons. He's a rock in there. But he does this to get his meat? Exactly. Is he fucking Vons? No, he likes... You don't get elk at Vons.

He's a hunter. Well, he likes... I think he likes the sport of it. Is it a sport? But is it a competition? Well, yes. Because it's a one-way competition. You're competing for the elk's life.

And if the elk wins, it gets to run away and dodge that arrow. But if it doesn't smell you in time or doesn't hear you step on a branch then you put an arrow through its heart and you get to eat it that's the competition yeah I mean you wouldn't think it's a sport but you have to be in fucking ridiculous shape to do that but this guy this old-school training method it's very appealing like here's a rock in his backpack he could have had weights you know it could have had 45 pound plates on his back and stacked it up to 130 pounds. Nope. No. No, he has a fucking rock. Just a giant, boom, and he puts it in a backpack, throws it over his shoulder, and walks up to the than seeing a guy do some squats in a gym wearing some asics sneakers you

know getting on that smith machine where it's all nice and smooth and doing some squats i'm not doing weights anymore i'm gonna put fucking rocks now i i will be a fucking wimp if i put rock i'm gonna put rocks in my fucking wheelbarrows it's not a bad idea no because it'll give them more of a ah feel yeah just weigh the rocks yeah yeah there's something manly as fuck about moving rocks chopping wood get them a big heavy ass axe but don't do that because when guys get tired you don't want to fucking accidentally chopping their knee off what about some fat what about some fat naked chick put her in the wheel barrel no put her in the wheel barrel christ. What? No, put her in the wheelbarrow. Jesus Christ. I got confused.

What are you going to do to her? Yeah, I don't think that's a good idea. There's not a lot of motivation there for anybody. Not for her. I guess for her it would be a lot of fear. Yeah. Maybe that'll motivate her to lose weight, but I doubt it. Most likely just traumatize her.

Poor gal. You're just fat shamed right there. Do you know that? Yeah. Speaking of that, you know my son's fighting Friday here in L.A. Yeah, you're excited about that? It's Shrine Auditorium. Is it kickboxing or is it MMA? What is the organization?

It's RFA. Oh, that's right. Ed Suarez. Ed Suarez' organization. Yeah. Are they still on AXS TV? Are they having events on AXS TV? I don't know.

I hope they do. That's one of the things i loved about hd net when it was hd net you know i just love that they have so many fights on hd fights and they have them on all the time all the time so many fights over and over so many good fights on hd net and then uh the boss rooting show the him and uh yeah. A lot of MMA on that channel. That's a good show. Yeah, I hope RFA is still with them. I'm not sure if they are. But what is it like having your son fight? Is that weird?

Yeah, because the way I feel about fighting. Right. And he's 32. So, I mean, he's only a second fight. Pro fight. How long has he been training? His whole life? Yeah. He's been training since he was a kid. You know, basically. Five years old. Six years old. He's been training his whole life yeah he's been training since he was a kid you know basically five years old six years old he's been training but he just never really wanted to focus on the structured fighting always been a fighter always been a great martial artist um

but he just you know you know did so he did his first fight was his first his first fight was over really quick and uh he's 6'4 185 wow that's a lot of reach yeah tell people at home people you know um maybe have never sparred even before really have no idea what a massive advantage a long reach is. It's got a huge, huge advantage in the ability to touch a guy when he can't touch you. Yeah. I see it that way, but then I see the other way too. Where a guy who's got short arms like a Tyson.

Just gets in and then all of a sudden the advantage turns that quick. So I think if you know how to cut off the ring slash cage, because I think if you did a study, I don't know if the heavyweight champions and I don't know if the height would be that huge. I think it's pretty big. You know why? Because I think that if you have the the height you don't necessarily require big power you know like i think john is a tremendous athlete and one of the greatest talents to ever

fight in the ufc but if you had to describe john with one word it wouldn't be power you know he hits hard no doubt about it and i'm sure he's getting better at hitting hard but it's it's a different kind of hard than like a chuck hard, which he starches all these guys with one shot, and you realize like these guys got hit like they got hit by a sniper. Boom! He hits them and they're stiffening up. You don't see that type of power with John. Yeah.

But you think the height. But I think that if you have height, you can get away with more, whereas if you're short and you've got short limbs, you better be able to do a lot of damage with every shot you land once you get inside like tyson style yeah like that was the thing about tyson it wasn't just that he was you know short he could do damage when he got inside it's just the what he could do in a short amount of time was so tremendous because the amount of power he had but if you had a guy like pernell whittaker that was like a short guy but he was

short and stocky but he had that kind of style where it was like very slick and hard to hit, but really didn't put you out with one shot, I think it would be a way less effective body type. Is that just thinking? No, I mean, obviously it's a common way of thinking because they say reach advantage. They never say reach disadvantage. But I just never found it that way. But I just think it's the skill, a different thing. What do you think on the ground? Do you think height or?

It plays a part in triangles. Right. And darses. Darses. What about limbs for getting submitted? True. So the shorter guy. Well, I think it's harder to tuck yourself flat when you're defending

arm bars it's harder to not give up arm bars there's all that room when you get these big ass fucking stork arms you know there's all room where guys can slip slip arms and grab hooks but there's also so much leverage in long arms and long legs i think more of an advantage to more than long limbs than anything like you look at a guy like hodger gracie clearly uses his limbs to his advantage a braulio estima another guy long tall guy clearly uses that to his advantage like braulio especially one of his uh signature moves is this sort of upside down triangle when guys are like trying to pass his guard and he slap a triangle on you in this like really weird awkward way yeah and i think

that you uh you know you don't necessarily get that as much with guys with the shorter limbs because it's just not available it's hard for like a guy like me with short stubby legs i can't there's certain guys that is not going to triangle them because i'm never going to get it around the back of my knee you know a guy who's like 260 pounds but most likely i'm not going to triangle him the the angle that i'd have to cut to actually lock that off would be so severe it'd be really really hard to pull off and a guy who knows what's going on whereas a guy like hodger gracie those fucking legs are so goddamn long you get inside of his guard all of a sudden he's moving you around and it's on you and there's nothing you can do to stop it it's just they're strong and they're long

and the lever of those limbs yeah i think it's a pretty significant advantage on the ground as well yeah so i think i don't i've generally looked at it as one standing i just think because i think the guy gets inside a lot he's gonna have the advantage and the guy's outside and i just don't think getting inside would be that much of a deal because there's a cage or a ring right because they can't go yeah you can't just keep moving if it was in a big open auditorium, like if guys fought on a basketball court, that would be very different. Right. It would be a completely different sport. Yeah.

That's actually kind of a fascinating idea, to have a basketball court-sized room where a guy could just run around. You can never get him up against the corner. And then let's give the other guy the chance, too. Let's let him fight in the phone booth. Yeah. One round in the basketball court. One round in the phone booth. Remember that sport they had where you did one round point fighting.

And then one round where you could only touch the body, like a karate point fight. And then they put on gloves. And then they did one round full kickboxing and then they went back and they put on any street gloves i think and then they did one round anything goes remember that that little guy used to do that uh who's i know shoney carter used to do that did he yeah it was called shoot it had i forget the name but it was came from uh uh basically karate roots so the guys that did it were usually better strikers. That's interesting.

You remember Drakka? Yeah. They used to have kickboxing combined with takedowns. Yeah, but you just take them down and then they had to get right back up. Yeah, that was weird. Well, isn't that similar to what Kung Lee did, Wushu or whatever? Well, yeah, Kung Lee did a lot of that, the very similar stuff. Yeah, Wushu or whatever um well yeah it's connected a lot of that the very similar stuff yeah what did they call it no not wushu god damn it what was it called wushu wasn't it i don't believe so i don't believe it was called that um what would that what

the hell i can't believe i can't remember this i have too much information in my head, John Hackleman. As I get older, I feel like I'm getting stupider. Sanchu. Sanchu. Do you meditate? Yes. You do? I just have too much information. Too much is coming in.

I forget. But he was a very good wrestler as well. So that was one of the reasons why his kicking style, which is so spectacular and flamboyant, one of the reasons why it was so effective was because his wrestling was so good, he could keep the fight standing. Yeah. And you could take his leg when he throws a kick, and first of all, if you

try to catch it, you might get a broken arm. And second of all, if you do catch it, his balance is phenomenal. What ever happened to him? He just beat Rich Franklin. He knocked out Rich Franklin, but he's got a movie career going on right now. In the UFC. Oh, okay. With a beautiful overhand right, or

right hook. That was a little while ago. Yeah, that's the last fight he's had. Why? He's busy. Got him with a beautiful overhand right or right hook. That was a little while ago. Yeah, that's the last fight he's had. Why? He's busy. He's got a lot of movie things going on. Yeah?

Yeah, he did a pretty big science fiction movie. What was that movie? Pandorum? Is that what it was called? Let me see what the movie, film career. Here we go.

Powerful Wikipedia. Pandorum. Yeah, that was the movie movie if you've never seen that movie before it's a really interesting movie man really interesting science fiction movie and he plays uh this dude in the future that is uh existing around all these uh freaky hybrid monster people that have been created they're they doing good? Oh, it was a good movie. But is he good? Yeah, he's good, man. He's a good actor. He's a good fucking actor.

And he does martial arts in the movie as well. And realistic martial arts. Like, you know, he's doing, you know, he's a bad motherfucker, Kong Lee. Have you seen Chuck's commercial? Which commercial? Oh, the Bud Light commercial? Isn't it? I mean, like, and then watching R rampage on a team yeah these guys i mean i love to

watch that because i mean it's not easy to read a script and try to portray something or else the actors wouldn't make so much money it's not easy to do at all no it's like when people tell you to say okay act scared and then say this it's hard to do that when on command yeah and i think chuck is i mean he's got that personality he's remember that he was on command. Yeah. And I think Chuck is, I mean, he's got that personality. Remember that he was on that talk show where he's playing with the dolls and he loved to dress up dolls? Do you remember that? Yeah.

What was that? He did a great job. I mean, he's so funny. Well, he can be himself. Yeah. Some people panic when they say, ready, action. And they have so much wrapped up in who they are that they come off like fake and weird yeah yeah he's so i think he's he's gonna you know living in calabasas living in that lifestyle i think he's gonna take off in a second career you think so i do i can't

i think he could i really do i think just being him in front of a camera with any in any background in any you in any way, whether it be a movie or... Randy's doing really well. Is he? Yeah, Randy had quite a few movies, man. He was in two of the Expendables or three of the Expendable movies. He's always got things going on.

Randy's always got something cooking acting-wise. Expendables are big fucking movies, man. Yeah, I know. I've heard about it, but I never saw it. You never saw it? He's got a big part. Is he working at his son's corner? Not in the UFC. His son's not in the UFC anymore about it, but I never saw it. Never saw it? He's got a big part. Is he working at his son's corner? Not in the UFC.

His son's not in the UFC anymore, though. Right, but he just fought. I don't know if he worked at his son's corner. I know that was a big issue, though, in the UFC, that he couldn't work at his son's corner. I know. That's some crazy stuff. Yeah, you know what, man? Dana White is a very competitive guy, and he has very strong ideas about loyalty.

The UFC is everything to him yeah and you know i'm a different kind of guy you know like i don't fault anybody for competing in another organization i don't fault anybody for you know i think the world's pretty big there's plenty of room room for a lot and if the uf UFC wasn't using Randy and he goes over and is on Bellator and he's coaching, I honestly think it makes the UFC look better. This UFC champion is that you wanted to get this UFC champion on your show. I think it's a free UFC ad. I don't think it changes the ratings of the UFC or changes the ratings of Bellator. But what it does do is it gives Randy Couture money.

I just think the UFC is fine. It's not going nowhere, you know? And to Dana, it's like you're on my team or you're against me, you know? See, I'm more like that. By like that, my team are against me? Well, listen, this is all hypocritical because it's coming from me, who,

if I leave the UFC, I'm done. Like, I'm never doing this for somebody else. I do this for the UFC or that's it. I was going to say this, but before you, you and Mike, I know I've told you this before. I know it's probably like this getting tired. I mean, I have never, I've been around combat sports, like I said, competitively since 74.

I've never heard – you'd be considered a color commentator. Yeah, I'm a color guy. And he's the – I've never heard such a good team ever, ever – I mean, I can't even – just watching those fights. When you guys are calling that fights, it's unbelievable watching those fights. It's the best – It's just the personalities. And then throwing Bruce Buffer in for the announcing. I mean, the combination is actually magic. And between you guys calling the fights, it's just such a perfect combination.

I mean, it adds to the UFC. Well, that's so kind of you. Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. Coming from you, that means a lot, man., that's so kind of you. Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. Coming from you, that means a lot, man. You're a very kind guy. You've always been very. Well, you know that's true.

And it's really, the UFC just happened to step up with, and then everything just seemed to fall into place. I mean, we got you guys calling it. You got Bruce Buffer. Then the matches and then the fighters and it's it's it's turned into it's turned into you know just something that'll it's it's greatness well that's the crazy thing about dana is that dana is the one who had like this vision of putting this all together he's the one like he's the one who got me in the commentary if i if it wasn't for dana white i

never asked for this job i never pursued pursued it. I turned down Pride. They offered me the job of being the color commentator for Pride. I was like, I don't want to do it. I'm not going to Japan. Thank you very much. No thanks. Can't do it. I'm working too much as it is.

But when Dana said, just do this one for me, like UFC 37 and a half, I'm like, okay, I'll do it. I'd gone to a bunch of them, and I would always do interviews for them and talk to people about what I loved about the sport. But I'd be in the audience when I'll do it. You know, I'd gone to a bunch of them and I would always do interviews for them and, you know, talk to people about what I loved about the sport, but I'd be in the audience when I was doing it. And Dana, he figured out that I would be a good guy for this. But like most people would have never hired a guy who's never done any sports commentary at all, ever, and take him and make him a color guy on television for the first bout. That's ridiculous. But he's like, you could do it. And then I figured out how to do it along the way. But the thing about Goldberg and me is we've been doing it together for so long.

I could finish that dude's sentences. I know what he's saying before he says it. He knows what I'm going to say most likely before I say it. He knows when I'm saying things, when I'm done. We know when each other wants to make a point. We know when each other wants you to take over. It's like we have this smooth sort of communication that you only get from calling a thousand plus fights together.

It's a long ass time. Yeah, I agree, but I disagree. I mean, you could have two guys. You could also have two guys or a guy and a woman in a marriage. You could be married forever. Sometimes it's just not going to work. That's true. So I think it's the chemistry.

I mean, you have so much knowledge when you're watching. And I remember in the beginning I was thinking, he's a little grappler base. But, you know, that's just me. But you just have so much knowledge. You know so many of the – because when it hits the ground, obviously a lot of the guys are like the fans. But you always like exactly say what's exactly what's going to happen here

and what should happen here and what might happen here and how this guy should do this. And it makes it really easy to watch. Well, that's awesome, man. I really appreciate that. It's fun to do. I never thought I would ever be involved in any sports in any way, shape or form. It was never an ambition.

So the fact that it's so seamless and so easy to do, but it's just really just because I'm honestly a huge student of martial arts my whole life always have been and always are uniquely fascinated by new techniques and drills how a guy's getting over on another guy how a guy did this when he should have done that like i love what you know what i love i love watching dudes show real sneaky shit like tj walberger did you see his um not tj walberger yeah yeah it was in uh sacramento yes god damn it yeah he was the guy that looks like he's from he looks like he's from boston but he's not miller miller right no no no no dillashaw t.j dillashaw oh my brain's mush today

okay this is one of the worst brain days i've had in weeks i'm thinking I trained right before I got here I'm exhausted so my fucking noodle's not working so sweet but TJ Dillashaw fought Mike Easton in Georgia last week

the fucking kid was moving so good doing all this sneaky shit all this like you think he's going for a takedown

he throws a head kick you think he's going for a punch he throws a knee he was doing all this really subtle shit as far as like his movement and in and out and moving from side to side avoiding the attacks of easton but landing like consistent shots over and over again picking his style apart so interesting to see these kids like really evolve and grow and when

i see a guy like tj dillashaw and I see him evolve and grow like that, that's, to me, one of my favorite things in the sport. Seeing a guy who's like, you see him on The Ultimate Fighter, he's talented, he's a raw, young kid, loses to a really scary guy in Dodson. I mean, Dodson at that weight is a fucking demon. He's a will-o'-the-wisp.

Kid's so fast and he can knock guys out, which is a rare thing for 135 pounds. And then you see Dillashaw go from that to just slowly but surely putting all these skills together. Now you look at him and you go, this kid is a bad motherfucker. And you're watching him grow right before your eyes. You're watching him step into his future

right before your eyes. That's one of the most exciting things for me and talking to him he's like you just nice just kidding it's way so scary too it's like I mean you're talking this guy like training with Steve Steve Mako mm-hmm you ever heard of them yes okay so he was over yesterday training and we're going over the hooks which you can do a left hook later? A left hook to your pads? I really want to show you the left hook. Okay.

It's my favorite punch. But when I met him, I thought, hey, what's up, man? How you doing? He's a Glover. I thought he's a friend of Glover's. He looked like Barney Rebel on steroids, bro. What do you do? And he's like, oh, I wrestle. And I was like, I don't know wrestling.

But then I find out along the way this guy's like a bad-ass wrestler. I mean, he's like USA this, NC this, AA this, whatever. He's like the real deal because all the other UFC guys know him. And it's like, it's scary because guys like that or TJ or this guy Marcus Alameda.

You ever heard of him? Marcus Alameda? Yeah. There's so many jiu-jitsu guys that have that same name or are close to it. He has cheeks or something. He has cheeks? Buccio. Wait, his nickname is like fat cheeks.

I don't know where he's from. He won everything. His name is Marcus Alameda, and he just won some absolute something. Well, there's another guy named Marcus Alameda who's a singer. Oh, this guy is a jiu-jitsu guy. Yeah, here it is, the world champion guy. Yeah, there's a couple of them. So he was on the show with us, the Ultimate Fighter, because we did season 19. And I'm walking around with him.

I didn't know who he is. I don't follow jiu-jitsu. And we're walking around. Somebody asked me, oh, can I get a picture? And he's holding the camera. And then we go behind the scenes, behind the UFC, the training rooms. This is one of the UFCs was going on. And all the fighters know him.

It was like they're running up to him. They want to take their picture with him. And I was walking away. I go, who are you, man? What do you do? I just do jiu-jitsu. And then I find out. I look him up.

He's like the world's best jiu-jitsu guy right now. He's one of the top guys for sure. He just won Abu Dhabi in the absolute division. Yeah, yeah. He had a draw with Hodger Gracie in Metamorris. So that's good. That's pretty fucking impressive. Hodger is a grappler, one of the strongest grapplers on earth,

without a doubt, one of the very best guys. And the thing about this sport, the boxers, I hung around, I grew up more boxing and hardcore martial art guys, and you could just tell. But in this sport, it's so scary because a guy like Steve Mako, you're going to go up to him, you're in a bar, you've had a few drinks,

and you're going to go up to him and say something. Well, don't do that. Yeah, it's like, or you go up to someone like TJ Dillashaw and say something. Right. Big mistake. Huge mistake. Yeah, it's like, or you go up to someone like TJ Dillashaw and say something. Right. Big mistake. Huge mistake.

Yeah, it's a huge mistake. I got this guy named Castle Williams that fights for me. 19-year-old kid. He looks like Bieber, Dustin Bieber. Uh-huh. And he's one of my, he's an undefeated fighter fighting, you know, King of the Cage. And he's like, he looks like, like I said, he looks like Dustin Bieber. But he will take your head off and then throw you down and put you in some kind of lock

and lock something up until it breaks. Well, Siler is a very sweet-looking kid. Looks like a nice next-door neighbor boy, like an all-American kid. Okay, Siler, Chuck, Glover, all my fighters are great but these guys just before a fight you'll never think they're going to fight you think they're going to go to 7-11

I mean like Siler before a fight is the absolute calmest guy I've ever seen before a fight he's in the dressing room like I said playing video games with his opponent and And they're laughing. I've seen the fight before last. He's in the dressing room with his wife who used to come into the corner with him all the time.

The last one she didn't, but she usually does. And they're playing. They're looking for cute little stuff for the house. And then I go, bro, we've got to warm up now. He goes, coach, okay, like three more minutes. Let me look at this. And walking out to the cage he's just like you fighting Glover before he fought Tehuna we're walking out and I'm like okay bro I don't want you slugging with this guy I want you taking him down real quick and you know I'm going over this the thing is coach relax I got this I

got this then we get up right to the end and Burch yelling and there's you know it's a massive UFC and and I'm so nervous and Glover turns to me right before we went to take the final walk to the cage and he goes coach fuck i don't want to do this man i'm fucking scared i want to quit right now i don't want to fight but he didn't smile he didn't look like he was joking what what does the trainer do i'm not gonna make him go out there He said, I just don't want to do this anymore, coach. And I looked at him, and I just didn't know what to say. He goes, I'm joking. Let's go out.

And he goes, look, he goes, I'm joking. You need to relax, man. Let's go have some fun. So, I mean, it's just these guys, they're just so cool. These MMA guys, it's scary. This is what Overeem looks like now. Yeah, he's down. He's lost a lot of weight. He is down looks like now. He's lost a lot of weight. He is down a little bit. He's lost a lot of weight.

I don't know how much, but that's a good idea. He's carrying so much muscle around with him. You saw in the Travis Brown fight. Perfect example. He's all over Travis Brown in the beginning of the first. He just couldn't keep up that pace. He just couldn't do it. You think a lot of that's HGH as well as the TRT?

Who knows? That's a scary one when they do that. You know a lot of that's HGH as well as the TRT? Who knows? Who knows? That's a scary one when they do that. Well, you know what it is, man? If you looked at how big he was when he was the K1 Grand Prix champion, the accusations were always there. Yeah. So then the accusations, he tests positive.

So then when he tests positive and he has this excuse for it, but then when he's not on the testosterone now, he shows like low testosterone. So I think he's trying to do it legitimately now. But the problem is I think like you talked about before, a lot of these guys, they run the risk of screwing up their endocrine system by hyper-juicing it, and then they go back to trying to be natural, and they're kind of at a big disadvantage.

If you go low, if your testosterone is low, I mean, yeah, even if you're that big, I mean, your testosterone is low, there's some feminine qualities that are going to come in because that's what happens. I mean, it's a competing estrogen, you know, because we have estrogen as well. Right, right, right. I mean, we don't have nanograms like we do, you know,

we don't have nanograms like we do uh you know we don't have nanograms of of estrogen like we do testosterone we have picograms which is you know a trillionth of a gram but there's a lot less but when we start messing with that fine balance i mean there's i mean we're gonna grow some boobs in a vagina but i'm just saying but think of ronda rousey who's feminine and misha tate is feminine but they're still fucking badass beasts. They're still wicked fighters. How come a man, is competitiveness in the mind, or do you think that having the extra testosterone in the system actually does make you more aggressive, make you more competitive? That would never, that will never ever be discovered or proven unless they fight men.

Women fight men? Yes. Unless women fight men? How do you figure that? Well, because if you're saying you're taking testosterone, so yeah, because they have

a low testosterone, they're women, they have more estrogen, but they're fighting each other. Right. Which they look great fighting each other. Just like when you ever watch Channel 34, the Mexican channel, you can watch two very

mediocre Mexican boxers. They both look like two Arcturigates. But then if you put them in with Mayweather, they're going to look just like amateurs. So as good as the girls are, and they are fantastic, I don't think they can ever compete because of the testosterone with men. That's why they had that Fallon issue. Yeah, I agree with you on both counts. I think that the idea that it's somehow or another equal. So then it becomes a matter of like if a guy has a really low testosterone because of past steroid use, do you think the guy should be allowed to compete?

Because if he has a really low testosterone and he's competing with guys like Glover who are natural, who are in really good shape, it could be potentially real dangerous. He has a limit to his gas tank. Right. And I've had this discussion with people that disagree with me. And most people disagree with me on most things. I agree with you with you most of the time how about that thank you i'm on your side thank you because most people don't i mean it's like i get i i'm like every political view i have every sports i mean they only agree with me on my left hook and my head kick other than that they're like they disagree with me on almost everything I say. But I think if the woman,

you know, like the dude, the Fallon, okay, that was a big thing. Yeah, it was a huge thing. I took a lot of heat from that. People thought I was being transphobic, which I'm absolutely not. I couldn't care less what you want to do. I'm happy if you're happy. But I think that the

idea that you could be a man for 30 years and then compete in mixed martial arts, I think is pretty preposterous it's actually it's ludicrous it's like i'm as as gay friendly as as they come i mean i could uh if it wasn't for that can i can i cuss on this yeah you can say whatever the fuck so if it wasn't for sucking cock which i would probably be a firmly opposed to i could probably be a gay guy because I'm sensitive. I love chick flicks. I hate watching fights when the guy hurts the guy. I hate that.

But I'm not gay, unfortunately. But I think that's... It has nothing to do with gay or straight. No, it has nothing to do with... But they'll tell you it is. They're silly. They're just being... What they're doing is they are opposed to your point of view. And your point of view is that that's not a woman.

And they want you to accept her as a woman. They want you to accept the fact that she has had a sex change and she's a woman now. And I say in all things except for that one, in all things except for the bone structure is completely different and you're involved in a striking art where you're trying to give each other concussions and i know for a fact there's some guys even that are just built in a way that other guys aren't and when you see those two guys compete against each other the guy with the bones has a significant advantage yeah but it's never usually as radical as the idea of a guy competing against a girl and so even if you change the hormonal characteristics of this person and make them

hormonally a woman the bone structure remains the same for 15 years they're talking about it like like how long it takes to lose the you know and to for bone density to start really decreasing to noticeable levels takes a long-ass time well and when they say that just like the guy with the low T from from one hit in the head which he's a doctor he probably knows more than I do but I would I would like to disagree with it and see it but I think what he's saying is it happens sometimes and he's dealing with those people that it happens to if you get the broad range of people that have been hit in the head, how many times has it happened? Is it 1%? If it's only 1%, think of how many people are coming to him with traumatic brain injury that have low test.

But I'm thinking for, so for the women, I mean, over 15 years, I think you're still a man because you've been a man for 20. So, but whatever, whatever. 30. Yeah. She's 30, huh? 30. 30 years as a man and then a woman and then becoming a woman fighter. It's like. So the T's low. And even though she's lost. She lost one of her recent fights. But she lost to a woman who's just really fucking good. Yeah.

You know, and she's just, she's not really fucking good. The woman she fought persevered, got through it and finished her off. Uh-huh. You know, it doesn't mean it's still not it's a ridiculous situation yeah just because a woman figured out how to beat her what it means is that that advantage still wasn't enough for her to beat someone better than her so do you think then i mean with that so the guy that does the testosterone when he's younger or when he's doing steroids when he wants to be a bodybuilder when he's younger or whatever.

So now he has a low T. I mean, is it fair to say you can't compete now because you're on TRT? I think it is. I think a lot of your past decisions in your life affect you. And, I mean, why should that guy get to do it when this guy who said he wasn't doing testosterone, why can't he do it? I mean, so I think that decision, people, the disagreement I got was, well, why should you take that away from him from a mistake he made in the past? And I said, well, if he made another mistake in the past and now all of a sudden he can't vote or he can't go to college because he didn't go to high school. I mean, he just can't.

There's certain things you can't do. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Like if you're a felon, you can't own a firearm. And you can't be a cop now. Now you'll never be a cop. Should you take that away from this guy because he didn't make a mistake in the past? Sorry, that's just the way it goes. Yeah, and that'll stop.

If there's a way to stop people from doing it, that is the way, right? To say you can't. You cannot do. You can never take it now. Yeah, you can'll stop. If there's a way to stop people from doing it, that is the way, right? To say you can't. You cannot do. You can never take it now. Yeah, you can never take it. This is reserved for people who have a medical condition that didn't abuse their body. If that's the case, that's where Vitor comes into play. That's where Vitor, it gets strange because Vitor has been caught before.

Right, and a lot of people do. I mean, so many people are on it now. It's not even, I mean, I'd be willing to bet over 50% of the guys are doing it now. It's probably lower, but I think it's close, especially the heavier guys. Do you have any guys – you don't have to name names. Do you have any guys that are on it? No, no. Is it because of your influence on them, you think?

I have never let my guys do it it but now that it's becoming legal for my most competitive guys i'd have a real hard time looking at them in the face and saying sorry your dream to be a title holder is going to be diminished because because of my my old fashions yeah old-fashioned ethics and my not too smart thinking but sorry that's just the way it is at the pit i've done a lot of things for my guys and to my guys, and I think I've closed some doors for them. There's certain things I don't allow, and I don't think I would not. If the UFC is going to say you can do it now,

then I couldn't look at my guy in the eye and say no. Well, I respect that. I respect that honesty too because that's a very, look at my guy in the eye and say no. Well, I respect that. I respect that honesty too because that's a very, what you just gave is albeit controversial, an honest response because that's one of the things about you and your relationship with fighters that I really, really respected.

You really care about those guys. It's very obvious. Too much. It's always very obvious. There's some guys when you see them and they're coaching fighters, it's certainly personal, it's some guys, when you see them and they're coaching fighters, it's, um, it's, you know, it's, it's certainly personal. It's certainly emotional, but not to the degree, the degree that it is with you. Yeah. These guys are, yeah, I think, I think a lot of it has to my past and stuff, but I mean, I actually broke down after a fight once and I've always got real

nervous after fights, but I broke down after actually one of Glover's fights. And, and after the fight, I was sitting in a corner and I was just couldn't stop crying. Which fight? I can't remember. He got hit. He got rocked a little. UFC? I don't know. I don't remember. I don't remember which fight it was because it just happens now every fight almost. Wow. And I just remember my, and, and I was just thinking, I don't, I shouldn't be doing this

anymore. I just, I can't can't tolerate watching my guys get hurt. And then it happened real bad. Oh, Fabio Maldonado, was it that fight? Yeah, so that was the second time. And he knew how mad I was after that fight. I think he said something to the announcer right after the fight, and he knew. I couldn't even talk to him.

I couldn't even talk to him for hours after the fight because he did that. Yeah. Well, he dropped his hands. He did that in a fight in the WC once he got caught, and he went and knocked the guy out right away. And the first thing he did when he came back to the corner, he goes, I'm sorry, coach. I know how you feel about that.

I know. Because they know it's not a joke for me. Head trauma is no joke for me. I agree. And it's like I do not – I will throw in the towel. Trauma is no joke for me. I agree. And it's like I do not – I will throw in the towel.

Like, I mean, I'll throw in the towel so quick that, I mean, if my guy gets hurt, the towel is going in. Like I did – I mean, like when Chuck fought Rampage, you know, the first one. He wasn't even really getting hurt, but I just saw he was hurting inside. He was stuck in a half guard. He couldn't get up, and he was exhausted, and it just broke my heart. He was getting smashed with elbows. Yeah, but they were mostly to the body. They were vicious, though.

Rampage threw some nasty elbows to the body. That was Rampage at his prime. Rampage Jackson in the pride days, like when he slammed Ricardo Arona. God damn, was that that? A little bit of that. So there was a lot of that. How do you know about that? For sure?

No, just I've heard. Okay. But then he said something on a show once where he was, when guys say, well, I got a prescription, or somebody said not too long ago, you know, about, well, this guy's level's way up, but then they admitted that they had a doctor's prescription and did too. Well, Rampage got testosterone replacement recently, but as far as I know, I don't know that he's ever said anything

about using any sort of steroids in the past. In the past? I think he was just cock strong. Really? He was just an unbelievably strong guy. I mean, do you ever see videos of him wrestling in high school? No. Rampage in high school was ridiculously strong,

just lifting guys up and hurling them through the air. Yeah, the first time I heard it was actually when he admitted to it. I think I'm thinking more of the axe murderer. Oh, Vanderlei. And I never heard him say anything. All I know is he came down from like 2.30 to whatever in a heartbeat. Well, there's Rampage in high school. Hold on.

Show that again. Watch this video. Never mind. Dude. I take that again. Watch this video. Oh, never mind. Dude. I take that back. Watch that one more time. Look how damn strong he was. Rampage was just insanely strong.

If you're listening, I'm sorry. I don't think he was on steroids at all. Look at that. It was so goddamn strong. He was a good wrestler, too. Yeah. I was out of line just now. Sorry. Holy shit. Yeah, Rampage was ridiculously strong. He was a good wrestler too. Yeah. I was out of line just now. Sorry. Holy shit. Yeah, Rampage

is ridiculously strong. If Rampage used that wrestling and that physical strength and really embraced Jiu Jitsu, he liked knocking guys out. But he would have been an incredible strangler. So physically strong. His punching was just natural.

He hit so hard. His fight with Randleman in Pride Because he had the, I mean, his punching was just natural. He hit so hard. Yeah. Fucking his fight with Randleman in Pride. Holy shit. Yeah. He was terrifying back then. Yeah.

Quentin Rampage Jackson, for people who saw him towards the end of his career in the UFC, they might judge him when he's dealing with all these injuries and has all sorts of problems. And to really understand Rampage, you've got to go back to these fights, the pride fights. I mean, he was going over there, throwing down every couple months against some of the best guys in the world. Fought Sakuraba, fought Vanderlei. How many times? Twice at least, right? And then he knocked out Vanderlei in the UFC finally. Yeah.

But he was such – you know who you're reminding me of? Just personality-wise, not really fight wise as much. Mark Coleman. You know why? Why? Because when you talk to him or interview him, they have no like egos

or macho facades. They're both fucking real about everything. Oh, Mark Coleman's as real as he can be. Yeah. Oh my God. I never knew him

until you know we just shot the ultimate fighter season 19 and um i had never spent one minute with him and we spent six weeks together and this is one of the most and and rampage is the same way i remember somebody said something after a fight once with rampage goes well how do you feel about that decision or fighting that guy he goes are you crazy the guy just kicked my fucking ass he fucking won remember that fight when it was a close fight he goes he just kicked my ass i don't know he said i don't know what the referees were looking at but i got my ass whooped and was that against machida i don't know i don't remember which fight it was i remember i never heard a guy actually say i don't know what the referees were looking at but i just got my ass flipped.

It was like, why are you belittling the judges? They just gave you a decision. You're telling them they're crazy. That's right. And Mark Coleman is so much like that. He ended up being such a real guy. He was so honest about every part of his career and everything he's done. That fight, I always got my ass flipped.

I was so scared in that fight. Should have the guy kicked me in the head. He was such a real guy. I just loved Hank. And these are like the real warriors. And they have no facades of, yeah, I'm a badass football player, walking around or whatever. A basketball player walking around like that?

You throw a ball through a hoop. Right. But these guys, but these fighters, they have absolutely no facades. They're just like so real. Yeah, well, Coleman was the original heavyweight champion. He won the first

UFC heavyweight title. Yeah. I was there. I was there. He beat Dan Severin, submitted him, got him in that crazy side headlock,

strangled him. Which he showed me that side headlock and I couldn't, I couldn't sleep right for like a week because he's like, you're more of a striker.

Come here, let me show you this. Go to Sensei. He called me Sensei. let me show you this sensei angle and after he did it and he wouldn't stop and i was like okay i got it and he's like you feel it now and like a minute later when he let go yeah it wasn't it wasn't pretty that was when mark coleman was that big and that strong he was making everybody gain weight all the usc guys started just piling on the pounds you all saw them getting bigger and bigger because they knew eventually they're going to have to face that fucking gorilla.

Like, you couldn't fight him and look like Maurice Smith, everybody thought. You couldn't, like, Maurice wasn't a big bodybuilder guy, wasn't a big powerlifter guy, was an in-shape kickboxer. And everybody's like, oh, poor Maurice is fucked. Not so much. That was one of the most shocking fights ever yeah and and mark has nothing but respect for maurice he did all he said was you know he's basically he was so real about that fight then i guess there was that other guy that kicked him in the head oh pete williams yeah yeah he talks about that fight and

yeah just his his ups and downs and and he just has no censor about any of them, no excuses about anything. He's just so freaking real. And very knowledgeable as a wrestler, too. Mark Coleman knows his shit. He would be a really good coach. He was a good coach, and he loved the guys. And he would just – he just had a hip replacement. Yeah, I was going to say that.

Hip replacement is teaching wrestling. No, he wasn't teaching wrestling. He hip replacement. Yeah, I was going to say that. Hip replacement is teaching wrestling. No, he wasn't teaching wrestling. He was wrestling. He was doing the takedowns and getting taken down by these young, you know, it was 205ers, and they were slamming him. And he was like, you could tell, you could see his face sometimes, but he'd get up a little slower. He goes, no, let's do it again.

Do it a different way. Wow. Yeah, he's. I didn't know you're allowed to wrestle when you have a hip replacement. I thought those days are over. They weren't for him, and he's superhuman. Yeah, he's the real deal. Hip replacements are fucking crazy.

As a nurse, knowing what you know, how nutty is the idea of sawing off the end of your fucking femur and putting on an artificial joint with a big steel screw and ting, ting, ting. Knocking it in with a, with a, like a, it's like one of those railroad fricking nails that goes way into the fricking, and then you put it with a fake, you know, into your bone and it's, it's crazy shit. And then to think he's, you know, competing at the level or training at the level he's training now, you know, yeah, he's a freak well they can do that now man they i uh had a my friend graham hancock was in here and he's in his 60s i believe

and graham had just got a hip replacement six weeks later he's walking around no problem no pain no nothing like what they can do now is just incredible it's crazy it's really crazy a lot of mma guys like chuck Norris apparently has had hip replacements. Really? Yeah, yeah. Chuck Norris? I didn't know that. Yeah, Dan Gables, all fucked up.

He's got huge knee issues. I believe he's had hip replacements as well. What about Superfoot? He had a really bad knee to begin with, right? Yeah, that's why he can only throw his left leg. He never threw his right leg. Fascinating. And also, what a great hook kick.

There's a kick that hasn't made it into MMA yet. I was never good at a hook kick. I never knocked anybody out with a hook kick. I never did it much in sparring. I had spinning hook kicks, and I threw a front leg roundhouse kick real fast. But he figured out, and Larry Kelly, do you remember Larry Kelly from Amherst, Massachusetts? There's a guy named Larry Kelly from Amherst, Massachusetts that was famous for his hook kick. He had this hook kick that was just like a lightning bolt.

And he was knocking dudes out in karate tournaments. He knocked out Billy Blanks when Billy Blanks was like a top karate points guy. Before Billy Blanks became the Taibo guy, he was like a serious point karate champion. I know, I've heard of him. And that Larry Kelly guy knocked him out with a hook kick. But I was always in awe of hook kicks. It's such a rare kick to see someone get super proficient at. Yeah.

So unless you could knock – you can knock someone out with a spinning hook kick. Sure. But a hook kick, you can't unless you're that guy because I've never seen anyone knock out anyone. It's more of a jab, flip. Well, Superfoot did, didn't he? No. Didn't he have some KOs with his hook kick? I don't think so, but he might have. I saw him.

Yeah, check him out. But the thing about a hook kick in an MMA fight, if you think about it, with your leg up in the air like that, you get run over a lot easier and taken down. Oh, yeah. Whereas the spinning hook kick, it might not land very often, but it's pretty hard to counter,. Whereas the spinning hook kick, it might not land very often, but it's pretty hard to counter as is the spinning jump, spinning back kick.

Yeah. It's interesting, too, when you see a guy like Wallace that only at the time, rather, could kick with one leg. Right. How good he got with that one leg was unbelievable, the shit that he could do. Well, you don't see guys having that kind of dexterity with their kicks anymore. He would do a lot. Like this is him.

He's old as shit here, man. Yeah, he's real. Yeah, that's nothing now. Yeah, this is. I mean, he's probably. He's 70 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 68 years old.

I just saw him, yeah. So he's still throwing hook kicks. Well, Benny the Jet. Like Benny the Jet. He was the freakiest kickboxer ever. See if you can find a young stuff. Any young videos. And if you can find Benny the Jet spinning back kick.

Oh, yeah. It was the best ever. Tremendous. He was my trainer for years. And, you know, he teaches right down the street at that. This is Superfoot when he was a young man. He always fought left leg forward. He was a good boxer too.

Yeah, he was okay. I trained at the Jet Center when I first came to Hollywood, when I first moved here. Benny's teaching over there at Team Karate Center right there on – In North Hollywood? No, it's right there on DeSoto and Victory. Really? Yeah, Benny – it's a guy named Farbors Azak.

Wow. It's a Hapkido school, but they also do, like, parkour, and they do kickboxing, and Benny actually teaches there now. It's probably the best karate school in the valley. Benny the Jet had some amazing fights in Japan, too. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. He was a tremendous kickboxer.

Did you see his throw when he threw the guy and ended up knocking him out with a throw, and they didn't know if they should disqualify him or not because throws in Thai boxing are kind of like you're allowed to take the guy down, but you're not allowed to use the hip, and you're not allowed to use a trip, but you're allowed to use upper body throws. Oh, really? So there's a really – the rules when they – a lot of – like in Japan,

they weren't sure about the rules. Here they're not. When it's a Thai match, they don't know. There's no takedowns. I go – I remember at a Thai match, they don't know. There's no takedowns. I go, I remember at a rules meeting once, and the guy told me, no takedowns. I go, I thought this was Muay Thai rules. You're allowed to do takedowns, just not with your hip or with your trips. He goes, really?

Well, let's just make it no takedowns. I go, but anyway, Benny took a guy down with a hip throw. He was also a black belt in judo. And he took the guy down and landed on him, and the guy couldn't go on because he landed on his ribs and he hurt his ribs. So they didn't know what to do, so they ended up disqualifying him. To me, Benny was the

greatest kickboxer ever. And he was certainly awesome, and he was a big-time pioneer at the time. There's Benny there in the red pants. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I first came to Hollywood, it's one of the coolest things. I was so happy that I could train at the Jet Center. Which one did you train at? On Friar Street?

Van Nuys. And the one in Friar? Yeah, the one where there was all the Blinkies. After Blinky's son had died, they brought in all the Mexican gangbangers. There was so many gangbangers that were training there. It was weird. They were respectful. I mean, they didn't have any problem, but it was like a point of contention.

Yeah, I trained there in 94 when I first came there. I was already gone, I think. But, yeah, I trained there for most of my fights. It was so cool. It was like a bowling alley that he turned into a gym. Yeah. And, yeah, Blinky's announcing now those fights that are out of China. Oh, yeah.

Okay, he was doing some announcing. You'd see it on TV every now and then. You'd catch it, some kickboxing show that they would have, and he would announce some white dude. Didn't really know much. Yeah. No, wasn't that? I think now, is it Steve?

Who else is doing it with him? I don't know. I thought it was the fight doctor. No, no, no. Maybe it is now. I don't know. I thought it was the fight doctor. No, no, no. Maybe it is now. I don't believe it was back then. But the problem with the jet center was that the earthquake fucked it up. Oh, it did?

It started leaking. So when the rain came the year after the earthquake, it just was ruining the gym. It was fucked. So then they moved it somewhere in North Hollywood, but then it's sort of, you know, it just wasn't kind of the same situation anymore. So he's still teaching out there? He's still teaching out there. I know he's still teaching right there now in Woodland Hills. And there's a House of Champions too, right? Is that still around? But that's like

not his. It's not affiliated. Is that what it is? The place in Encino? House of Champions is in Reseda, offshore of Rue. Reseda? Yeah. I thought it was in Sino. And it's not affiliated with him per se, but Mark Parra, who runs it,

is actually one of Benny's black belts in Yukitodon. Ah, interesting. Yeah, those are the early days of martial arts, man. He's one of the real legends of the early days of martial arts, especially in Los Angeles. I met Benny when he came down and fought in Hawaii when we had MMA, the first MMA fights, 1976.

And I fought in one. And I was 16, lied about my age, said I was 18, and I fought. And Benny was fighting as well. So at the gym, he came into our gym

and was like, oh, you're inspired by this guy. And it wasn't fun. I was a 16-year-old kid, and he had the same spinning back kick he has now. And he ended up knocking out some big guy named Dana Goodson, who was a 200-some pound guy. And then I ended up fighting. So he came back, and they used me to spar with him again.

And he told me, if you ever come to Los Angeles, look me up. So I did. Do you remember Dennis Alexio? Yeah. Another Hawaiian guy, right? No. No? Wasn't from Hawaii?

Lived in Hawaii? He lived in Hawaii. And then towards the end of his career, they threw him in with a bunch of, like they'd find guys on the beach and give him some title. And he fought. And he was a really good promoter. And he wore a grass skirt in the ring yeah yeah he's from uh he's from sacramento area really yeah so he just loved hawaii is that

what it was he moved to hawaii and they kind of adopted him and said he was uh and he would fill that arena and it was uh blaisdell was it blaisdell it was blaisdell blaisdell yeah see if you can find dennis alexio in the grass skirt Because he would fight with a grass skirt on. Yeah. It was fucking good, though, man. It was, yeah. It was good. You don't like, you don't think it was good?

I don't think it was that good. Like. Yeah, it's so exciting fights, man. Yeah, but when he fought Stan Longinus, he got. Yeah, he got his leg broken. He got his leg broken, and then he, yeah, Stan Longinus was a really tough, but. Well, Don Wilson, too. Don Wilson fucked him up with leg kicks as well.

Yeah, because he did not like leg kicks. That was the first guy to Wilson fucked him up with leg kicks as well. Yeah, because he did not like leg kicks. That was the first guy to really fuck him up with leg kicks was Don the Dragon Wilson. Who was a really good fighter. Fuck yeah. I got a chance to spar him once. Yeah? It was an honor. His sidekick was unbelievable.

All his techniques. He was a sneaky dude, man. Yeah. Really crafty fighter. Yeah. Really nice guy, too. Yeah. He's into movies and shit now

he did a whole series of movies he had a long career Cynthia Rothrock the point girl she was like a forms champion that was the wushu stuff yeah that was wushu not sanshu

do you ever remember a movie a kung fu old movie it wasn't even a B movie it was like a C movie and movie, a kung fu old movie? It wasn't even a B movie. It was like a C movie. And there's a kung fu guy, a white guy. But he came into a room, just slept with this woman. And he stood up. He goes, get up, get dressed, make the bed, and get out.

And she looked at him and she goes, who do you think you're talking to? And he crossed his arms and gave her a mean look. And then she goes, where do you keep the sheets? Do you remember that movie? No. Me and Chuck used to watch it back in the early 90s. I had the VHS. Right.

And we used to love, we used to watch that movie all the time. And then when VHSs went out, I threw away all my VHSs. Now we can't remember the name of the movie. Oh, someone will tell you. Here, Twitter, please tell us. Tell Mr. Hackleman what that fucking movie is. Get up. I'm sure they'll tell you in five seconds.

I'm sure we'll know. There's got to be some freak out there that's like. That was such a good. Because I've said that to so many women now. Get up. Get dressed. Make the bed. And get out.

How many women? More than one? More than one. Let's show Alexio. Show Alexio throwing those kicks. Probably like 33 in the last 10 years. Yeah, look at him. A crazy grass skirt.

And guys were complaining about that grass skirt, too. That was back when- That's funny. That's a standing man. Yeah, Longinita stopped him. Yeah, yeah. Longinita's had some powerful leg kicks. Yeah, his leg just gave out.

I know. I had an exhibition fight with Stan the Man a while ago. He trained at the Jet Center. Yeah, show that again, man. That's crazy. Yeah, he kicked hard. That's the first round. He kicked hard.

Like 10 seconds into the first round, broke his leg with a leg kick. Yeah. Unbelievable, man. What is wrong with youtube today yeah it's sucking it don't tell us it's our fucking web connection you sons of bitches get up get dressed make the bed and get out it's one of my favorite lines it stuck with me so rude to say after someone let you fuck them i know i know let's see this i know here it is again why is it rude boom why is it rude oh it's an inside leg kick you know no it's an outside leg outside but okay but wait why is it why isn't it i mean they should be honored that they slept with you why is it rude

have you ever said it dare you john hackleman that's what i have to say how dare that was the voice of john hackleman saying that they should be honored. Me, I'm always happy when a girl says yes. Always. Even if it's my wife. I am never thinking that they should be honored. I always think that I'm the one who's honored. Get up. So I got to get that.

So does anybody tweet back? Because you have more Twitter followers than I do. In seconds. Please, folks. What the fuck is it? What is the matter with them? Me and Chuck would sit down and watch. That's when Chuck used to sleep on my couch.

Do you know where Chuck sleeps now? He's at a very nice house. Yeah, he's not on the couch. He's not on anybody's couch. He'll never be on a couch again. No. Oh, my God. He is such a.

Well, that's the plan, right? If he was 40 years old on the couch, we'd have to really think through this thing. Then there would be no discussion with Dana. It would be like, yeah, okay, retire. I don't know. No one's coming up with the answer. Nah, they're fuckers. Yeah, we'll find it eventually.

It's going to take a little more time than I thought it would. Sorry, your obscure kung fu movie quote. That was one of the best. Have you ever seen Foot, Fist, Way? Yes yes yeah that was great i make all my guys watch it all my guys have had to watch a bunch of part of the martial arts my the pit they have to watch certain movies they have to listen to my music you know i do love really corny bad movie scenes though like that like my favorite is from superfly. You ever see Superfly? Superfly is one of the best bad movies of all time.

You know the movie, right? Yeah. There's a drug dealer. Yeah. Ugh. And he's in bed with this white chick, and he goes, this is all I've ever wanted. My hall, my vines, a white woman like you. This is all I ever wanted. This is America's dream.

My hall, meaning his car, My vines, meaning his clothes. And a white girl like you. Why is vines clothes? Because it's made out of plants. You know, you make your... It's cotton. It's a plant. So they call it vines.

Yeah. Not silk. Silk isn't made out of a plant. It's made out of a fucking bug. Bug, yeah. Pretty weird. Silk sheets? You made a sheet out of a bug shit?

How much fucking bugs do you need to make sheets? That's really kind of incredible when you think about it. Isn't that a movie? No, it's just a movie, period. Oh, man. There's too many to begin. Pain don't hurt.

Roadhouse. That's what you should show people. Show them Roadhouse. Just saw it. Show them how to grab the neck. Just saw it. I loved it. That's what he did.

I loved it. Pulled the dude's neck out. Remember when guys used to think you could do that? Grab the neck and just just that's all he did i love his neck out remember when you guys used to think you could do that grab the neck and just rip your neck out what a fucking shitty neck you would have if someone could just reach in and grab your neck and pull it out yeah yeah he's no longer with us nah it's hard to believe man look at him here this movie and he's no longer with us and a big part ladies and and gentlemen, motherfucking cigarettes. Put those bitches down.

Was he a cigarette smoker? Yes, he was. He most certainly was. Pancreatic cancer, it's a common one with cigarette smokers. Bill Hicks, famous comedian, also. Cigarette smoker, pancreatic cancer. It's not a good one. What about alkaline water?

It's healthy for you, good for you. Do you drink it? No, I don't i just drink spring water most time but uh i think the idea of having an alkaline high diet rather than an acidic diet i mean there's a lot of science that shows that alkalinity in your body is you know it's a good state to have and that cancer has to grow in an acidic environment you know this i mean there's so much dispute when it comes to nutrition and health and how you should live your life and how you shouldn't,

what kind of things are important to take into your body, the dangers or safety of GMO foods. There's a lot of contradicting information and articles out there. It's really hard to get the full skinny when it comes to something as complex as nutrition, I think. So what do you go by? I'd read as much as possible on it, try to find what makes the most sense, and then try to see how much of it has a history of use. When it comes to antioxidants, when it comes to vitamins,

there's a lot of shit that they know about vitamins. Vitamin supplements being the way to stop scurvy from coming on if someone's on a long boat trip. And they know where scurvy came from. It came from a vitamin C deficiency. Nutrient deficiencies and... But they didn't give vitamin C, did they? They gave oranges. At the time, yeah.

But, you know, you can isolate it with vitamin C. There's ways that they've figured out to isolate essentially every vitamin and nutrient known to man. I mean, it's not like a guess, you know, that they figured out how to get B12. They know how to get B12. And if you think that B12 doesn't work, it's because you've never tried B12.

B12 for sure gives you energy. You know, a lot of wrestlers would take intravenous shots before matches. I mean, B12 is tremendous stuff. At least do B12. Yeah. To anybody who says it's not is a silly person. So that's proof positive right there. You've isolated two very important nutrients that have noticeable effects, C and B12. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I mean, there's a giant amount of essential fatty acids, essential minerals that have been really proven to have a significant part

in the development of all sorts of aspects of your body. I mean, your body is essentially stardust. I mean, your body is essentially carbon and minerals and all these different things. And you need balance of these essential nutrients, these minerals. And if you don't have them, osteoporosis, What's that come from? A deficiency of a mineral called calcium. And there's so much of that in diet and so important. And keeping the body at optimum levels, especially for like a pro athlete,

it's immensely significant. You think being alkaline is more important or more helpful than acid? I don't necessarily know. I wouldn't be able to tell you. I'm not smart enough. I'm not educated enough. I don't know.

But I do know that there's a lot of work that I've read where people have studied the benefits of a high alkaline diet. There's a lot of them. Yeah, there's a lot of them. It seems to be the science is leaning towards that and that vegetables, green leafy vegetables, vary them as well. Don't eat the same ones all the time. There's been quite a few issues apparently with people who wanted to eat kale all day, every day. And then if you do it over long periods of time, the people can develop thyroid issues. Kale-itis. You just make that up? How dare you? I know when he's joking. No, it's kale-itis. At least you're not fooling me, sir.

What do you get? Well, the people who have thyroid issues that are connected to eating kale all day, every day for long periods of time. And they're saying that even though it's a really healthy thing, it can, you know, like, yeah, you need to vary your diet. Which is really kind of interesting because there's a lot of animals, they kind of stick to a very specific type of diet. And that's to avoid genetic mutation, to avoid variables that they can't control. They know that they can eat this kind of grass. They go and eat that kind of grass.

Like cows, for instance. I mean, they can eat corn, but you don't catch them eating corn anywhere else other than when people feed them corn. Most of the time, they know what the fuck to do. Go eat the grass and you get bugs that you're eating in the grass as well. And you're going to get a little bit of vitamins from them. And just, they know what the fuck to do go eat the grass and you get bugs that you're eating in the grass as well and you're going to get a little bit of vitamins from them and just they know what the fuck to do but people

boy we do better when we mix it up huh we do better when we have a little bit of i'm a creature of habit spinach a little bit of broccoli a little bit of celery have some cucumbers one day have a nice you know cauliflower salad the next day today let's go with brussels sprouts and you know today let's have some chicken tomorrow let's have some venison the next day let's, let's go with Brussels sprouts. Today, let's have some chicken. Tomorrow, let's have some venison. The next day, let's have some elk. You do better when you're varying your diet. You do a lot of home, not home cook, but- Yeah, I cook a lot.

But you do a lot of just hunted animals, huh? Well, that's what I'm trying to do. How do you do that? My goal, I hunt. You hunt yourself? Yes. Yeah. My goal is by the end of 2014, I want to have nothing but game

meat in my house. I don't want to buy store-bought meat. I don't want to buy chicken. I don't want to buy steak. I don't want to participate in factory farming. I want to have as little participation in what I think is a bad karma activity as possible. I'm not buying chicken McNuggets. I have to be really fucking starving i mean i'm not a perfect person if i'm in a bad situation and there's a fucking arby's and i need some i need some food i'll eat that shit if i have to reluctantly but i would like it if in my home i never have to and so my goal in 2014 is just shoot a lot of animals. Yeah. I got that in Montana last year, that deer. This year I got another one in Wisconsin.

I just got a wild pig this past weekend. So when you go, you go away, so it's a week-long trip. The weekend, this last time was a weekend. I went Friday night and came back Sunday morning. And then how do you bring it back? You cut it up. Cut it up and put it in the refrigerator. Put it in a cooler.

And drive it back? Drive it back, yeah. Yeah, and so I'm going to do that every few months. And it'll last you a few months each time? It depends on how big the animal is. This pig was huge. It was like a 200-pound pig. So that'll last a long time.

But I also have venison in there still. And I got some elk from a friend who went hunting and gave me some elk I got some salmon that I froze from last winter in Alaska I didn't catch these these were given to me by the guide yeah we were there it was a catch and release day unfortunately when we went to go fishing it was like a low number the salmon weir the day before so they sometimes they'll change it to go catch a million this guy was like listen dude i got way more than enough salmon if you want to bring home some wild salmon i got all this frozen salmon so he gave us like a couple pounds

of frozen salmon so i have some of that left over that's what i want to do man i think that participating in this system where we allow people to to use animals as like a commodity in such a way that they try to tighten up the bottom line so much that you torture these things. You give them these horrible existences just in order to maximize your profits. I think that's evil. I think any company that would do that is they're short-sighted, cruel assholes. And even though it's the standard model for these big factory farms, I still think they're short-sighted, cruel assholes. And I think that shouldn't be an option. geeks off when they're young to keep them from poking each other's eyes out, to take pigs and stuff them into these little pens and never let them roam around, just force feed them and pump them up full of growth hormone to get them fat and huge and then come along and kill them.

That seems disgusting. But wild animals, they're wild. They're living out there as nature intended. And all you do is just enter into that world and take one out and to me like me do this i'll never do that get it from someone who's a hunter find someone who you know that's a hunter that'll hook you up i feel bad about myself no don't feel bad look i could never i could never kill an animal if my life depend on it you know steve ranella who's a friend of mine who's a famous hunter he has this tv show

called meat eater and he was actually talking about it and he was saying i don't think everybody should have to go and get their food just like i don't think that you know like people take advantage of the fact that the government or the city takes care of your waste we should we all be processing our own sewage to be keep it real i don't want to he's like i don't want to process my own sewage you know but i like my own meat, so I do that. He's like, but I'm not saying you have to. I think that's a real good way of looking at it. So how would a guy, a normal karate guy like me,

who's, I hate, I couldn't kill a, I've never killed an animal in all my life. But you eat meat. But I love meat, so I'm a hypocrite because I love animals, but I eat a lot of meat. Well, I love animals too, man. I have two cats. I have two dogs.

I love animals. So what does a guy like me do? How do we find on the internet some guy that cooks or hunts for the food? I guarantee you there's someone in your area because you're in a nice area. You're in a nice area that's very rural. And California has a long history of hunting. T.J. Dillshaw is a hunter. Yeah.

You know, Chad Mendez, another guy who's living out there in Sacramento. The guy from the pit elevated. The guy that, you know, the gym we have in Utah. Yeah, the owner of that, Will, is a huge hunter. He goes to Africa all the time. Well, Utah is a rich hunting tradition. Massive elk population in Utah. We were there.

One of the guys who was like a ski instructor at this place that I went to told me on the way to work, he saw 20 elk, giant bull elk just sitting on the side of the road. I mean, Utah's the wilderness with a couple of little cities parked in the wilderness, you know, beautiful cities, you know, Salt Lake and Park City. But the fucking what surrounds it, that's as gangster wilderness as it gets. They have bears, you know. They have bears and elk. And they have moose that wander onto ski slopes every now and then. And you've got to get the fuck out of the way. A moose wanders onto your ski slope.

I mean, we have deers, but I'm on our property. I bet. But, I mean, I. You don't have to do it. I guarantee you someone, but I'm a property. I bet. But, I mean, I— You don't have to do it. I guarantee you someone in your neighborhood is a hunter. And, you know, if they hunt a lot, I'm sure they would be willing to trade some meat for some classes. And so I guarantee you someone in your gym who hunts would love to give you some meat just so you could try it.

If you cook it right, wild game is some of the most delicious food you could buy or you could try it if you cook it right live or wild game rather is some of the most delicious food you could buy or you could have rather you could eat yeah it's so good for you it's so and it's also i think the most karma free way of uh of acquiring animal meat if somebody hunted it and does it humanely and does it the right way but you know no one everyone shouldn't have to do it. Yeah, I couldn't. But factory farming's got to go. We as a society, even if we often turn fucking vegetarian, we have to

stop that shit. That's a travesty. We're putting out so much bad energy, and we're also, when people find out about it, it really lowers our expectations of human beings. We find out that we're willing to do things like that to animals just to profit. It lowers what we feel like is possible from the average person.

Even already lower than we are? I think it's one of the lowest things. I think another low thing is SeaWorld. Another low thing is this dolphin massacre that they're about to do. You see that shit? The place where they filmed that movie, the Cove, they've trapped 250 dolphins in there. Now they're going to slaughter them and everybody knows about it.

There's nothing anybody can do about it. I think that's, that lowers our expectations of human beings, lowers our, our, our possibilities. It changes our, our range.

You know, what we look, what's normal was this is, you know, murdering dolphins normal? In my world, in your world, the fuck it is. If everybody was John Hackleman or me, there would be no murder of dolphins, right?

Or drones. Yeah, or drones. Or bicycle riders on the street. Fuck bicycle riders on the street, right? Or smokers that smoke outside of Starbucks cigarettes. How about people that throw cigarettes out their fucking windows? Those jack-offs.

I'd like to just pull them over and beat the shit out of them. Yeah, I'd like to see you do it. No. Or smokers that... Just punch them in the arm so hard that they can't lift their hands up to smoke. Don't knock them out. You don't have to give them head trauma. Just hold them down and just beat their delts up.

Just pound knuckles right into their shoulders on both sides. So you literally can't smoke. But, I mean, why would somebody smoke when you have to inhale it? Well, because they get caught. They get caught by the cool bug. It's happened to a lot of people that are very intelligent that I know. Have you ever asked anyone to put down a cigarette? Sure.

Have they? Yes. See people get angry. You know, it's an interesting thing. They don't mind littering. You know, people that are – he's know, it's an interesting thing. They don't mind littering. You know, people that, he's telling me there's 10 minutes left. People, like when they go to restaurants and they have like outside seating.

Yeah. I saw this woman smoking. She was on the phone smoking and then just putting her cigarette out in this plant. You know, this like big, you know, beautiful bush. And a little pot, a big potter wheel, you know, a big wheel. A big potter plant potting thing. She's just sticking her cigarettes in there. Just poking out like little trees. She had four cigarettes in there while she was having her little conversation.

I was like, this is disgusting. You're a gross litterer. If you took a soda can and threw it in there, would that be okay? No, it wouldn't be. But you think it's okay to take your fucking gross cigarettes and stick them in the dirt. Yeah. It's a disgusting habit. It's a disgusting habit. You know what I bought for smokers is because it's one of my pet peeves.

And I've asked them, if I'm anywhere and I smell smoke, I'll ask them to put it out. And most people are really obliging. But there's people that haven't been. I just think, what can I do to get even? I mean, these guys piss me the fuck off. I can't spit on them, get in trouble. So I bought fart spray. And I got fart spray online, and I'm not proud of it.

But I remember the first time I did it, it backfired, because I was actually at my favorite karaoke bar, because I'm probably one of the best karaoke singers. Of all time? Probably. Interesting. So I asked her to please not smoke. And she goes, I'll smoke wherever the fuck I want.

So I said, okay. So I took out my fart spray and I sprayed her. Now this thing is horrid. I don't know if you ever smelled fart spray, but it's horrid. And I thought I got even with her. So I walked back in the bar. She was too drunk to even know it. And. So I walked back in the bar. She was too drunk to even know it and she ended up coming back in the bar

so I had to leave the bar because the fart smell was worse than the cigarette smoke. So that was my karma. Yeah, it turned around on you. Yeah, it was a bitch. Yeah, the cigarette thing, people don't think of it as an imposition on anyone but themselves.

So they'll be outside in front of a place like the opening of a restaurant or whatever and just be sitting there smoking. And you're inside the restaurant and it comes in and you're like, oh, it's disgusting. And it's just someone outside the exit door. They don't realize it. Smells when you're smoking things are real weird.

Weed is another example. People don't realize that weed stinks so bad when you're smelling it. They don't know that other people can smell it. Because there's something that's happening when you're smoking weed where you don't really smell weed stinks so bad when you're smelling it. They don't know that other people can smell it because there's something that's happening when you're smoking weed where you don't really smell it that much. But if you walk into a room and people have been smoking weed, you're like, Jesus fucking Christ. Do you guys know what this place smells like? But the people in it don't seem to have a grasp on it. Your olfactory senses detect changes in smell. They don't necessarily detect smells.

And I don't find it as offensive. Weed smoking? No. It smells good. It's like cigars smell good too. Or pipes. Yeah, pipes smell great. Like a nice cherry tobacco or something like that.

I love it. It smells good. My stepdad was a big pot smoker. Yeah. From the time he was a musician, played in Bangladesh. I mean, he was a musician, a working musician his whole life. Here's that dude, Larry Kelly, knocking out Billy Blanks with a hook kick. Watch this hook kick.

It's pretty sweet. He was really good at it. Boom. Oh. Pretty nice, huh? Yeah. Guy had a hell of a hook kick. You always heard about it.

That's a good hit. Not that often. You don't see that in the UFC, but that would work. I mean, if it worked there, it would work. Right, because he was moving back. Yeah, he is. Imagine if he threw it while a wrestler was coming in. Yes, he would get taken down for sure.

Yeah, so that would... Or he fought a Muay Thai guy, and the guy goes underneath it and attacks the supporting leg. And the way he threw it was almost, he put his hip forward, so it was almost like he was throwing a spinning hook kick because he got that hip into it. But most guys that throw it just bring their leg back so it's not with that much power. Yeah. Let me see the way he throws it.

He comes back. He's going to bring his hip forward. See how he brought his hip forward and then came back? So he got that hip into it. It would be like throwing a jab up here, but then you bring your hand back and throw the jab so it's more like a right hand yeah that was a nice one though yeah he's uh he's a he was a talented motherfucker yeah okay jerry tremble yeah jerry tremble i met jerry tremble when uh i was working somewhere in like santa clarita and jerry tremble just happened to be on the same set doing something completely different.

I got a chance to say hi to him. He has the best highlight video on YouTube. Really? Jerry Trimble. He was a hell of a fighter. He was a hell of a fighter he was a hell of a fighter yeah and he just his his his dynamic uh way and his personality his highlight video is actually my favorite fight highlight video of anyone there he is right there whoo yeah his highlight video is on him holy jesus yeah he was a bad motherfucker

in the pka days he was one of the few guys that was like super good. Yeah. And really fun to watch. He put it together like Benny did. Yeah. Because there was a lot of the, look at this, 360 roundhouse kick. There was a lot of people in those PKA days that were really boring and stinking it up. Point, point, point, point. Yeah. Well, not just that.

Like they would throw kicks just because they had to have a minimum amount of kicks. Yeah. So they would throw these like half-assed kicks just to get their minimum in. And then there was guys like Trimble that had all these wild techniques. Yeah. Damn, he was a bad motherfucker. Jean-Yves Theriot, you remember him? Yes, I do.

Who Blinky Rodriguez knocked out. Yeah, he was good, but he didn't do the leg kicks. No. Theriot was above the waist guy and lost when he did do the leg kicks, right? Yeah, yeah. He's from Toronto. Ernesto Hoos beat him up, didn't he? kicks, right? Yeah, yeah. He's from Toronto. Ernesto Hoos beat him up, didn't he? I don't know, but I know he's from Toronto.

Yeah. The non-leg kick guys, when they came over to leg kick, they just – it was like a boxer trying to fight a wrestler guy. Yeah. They could not cope with the leg – See, Terry Turnbull had the best highlight – he has actually had MMA guys and anyone else, he has my favorite uh

highlight video of all time really and i don't even know him i just happen to be i just saw it once and i said this is my favorite and i wrote in the comments this is my favorite or something and he thanked me for it but that's awesome yeah he's that's he's a he's an awesome guy yeah those uh it's it's really interesting because those guys from that era, that is responsible for holding kickboxing back a little bit for some reason. The PKA. Yeah, I was WK. Oh, you were WK? Yeah, we fought WK, so we did leg kicks and then sometimes knees too.

And then that was Benny's system, you know. That's what he liked. WK and they had PK. And then, like I said, in Hawaii we kind of had a no commission thing, so we just kind of fought any system. Yeah, that must have been a really nutty time, huh? It was crazy. I loved it.

I hated growing up in Hawaii, but I loved the fight. Fighting in Hawaii is huge. They have some really good fighters in Hawaii. And there's some really good ones coming up too right now. Well, it always has been. I mean, think about just the tradition of bad motherfuckers from Hawaii. BJ Penn was not the first, but certainly signifies, symbolizes that style of a fighter.

Travis Brown, another proud Hawaiian. Yeah, Hoppa. Scary fucking dude, man. He's a beast. Those elbows that he does when guys are holding on to that single, holy shit, he generates a lot of power with those. Yeah.

Hawaii has always been a fight culture. There's been a lot of fights in Hawaii. I mean, the first MMA fight was in Hawaii. I should correct myself. He lost to Jean-Yves Thériault. Who? Ernesto Hoost. He didn't beat Jean-Yves Thériault.

Wait, are you talking about Blinky or Benny? Above the waist. Oh, okay, that's why. Ernesto Hoost. Yeah, they fought above the waist. They fought Jean-Yves Thériault style. And then he fought everybody, man. He fought Rob Kamen, lost to Kamen.

And he lost to Jean-Yves Thériault again later on in his career. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Rick Rufus, another one. Yeah, Duke's brother. He was a bad motherfucker in those days. He was one of the other really exciting guys in the PKA days. Yeah, yeah. But he had a good transition over

to to leg kick kickboxing as well i think i think duke was better but yeah more successful yeah that style of fighting yeah yeah but he was he definitely had his day the other jet yeah the other jet yeah well he rick the jet rufus was a fan of benny the jet so he took his nickname oh yeah yeah i mean that's where that's where he got the nickname. He got the nickname because he was a Benny the Jet fan, a huge fan of Benny's. Yeah. Well, Benny was like one of the original pioneers, you know? He was, yeah.

And he's still teaching. He's still hanging in there. He was the freak kind of guy that just could do everything. I mean, he could stand right in front of you two inches from your face, jump up in there, and do a spinning back kick. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Good old days, my friend. Those are the good old days. A lot of good old days coming up still. Today will be the good old days one day. Yeah. So you got a lot of good, like, yeah. I mean, there are some great guys coming up, and we got guys like Court coming in and and glover making it to

the top yeah well it's such an exciting time for mma you know it's it's still in its infancy it's as crazy as it sounds it's still i mean when there's a 10 20 year history from now from now to today people are going to look back at these times like well this is like when it was really starting to explode where do you think it'll be the biggest sport in the world. But what do you think it can be changing? Like it's changed from boxing? It's a good question. It is always going to be. I think once it.

What do you think is the dumbest rule that they should change? 12 to 6 elbows. 12 to 6 elbows are crazy. Doesn't make any sense. That was my last vlog. Did you write about 12 to 6 elbows? What's the difference between 12 and 6 or 3 to 9? Stupid. Well, Travis Brown and 6 or 3 to 9? Stupid.

Well, Travis Brown and the Josh Barnett one, that's okay because it's 3 to 9. This is so fucking stupid. Kidney punches. Yeah. All of it's so stupid. Kidney punches are stupid too. That's a stupid rule. You can't kick the kidneys when you're on the bottom, when you're in the guy's guard.

That's an effective technique, man. You should allow that. If you can throw a body kick, you're in the guy's guard, that's an effective technique, man. You should allow that. If you can throw a body kick, you're kicking the kidneys, man. If you're kicking a guy on his left side, you're kicking his fucking kidneys. If you hit him on his right side, you're hitting him in his liver. It's legal. It should be legal. Well, the liver, you can hit the liver because the liver is in the front.

Right. And there's only one. Yeah. And you can't live without it. Right. In the kidneys, there's two of them, and you can live without them. I mean, you'd have to be on dialysis,

but there's two of them. You could live with one just fine. Yeah. But you can't kick the kidney, but you can kick the liver. And you can hit the brain. Yeah. That's a pretty sensitive one, too.

The most sensitive one, period. The most important one. Yeah. Irreplaceable. And you're actually, they want you to hit it As hard as you can Yeah we gotta wrap this up

At three o'clock We turn into a pumpkin Or three hours in Alright Oh we are? Three hours in Oh my god It's over

I thought I was worrying Thinking Now that time's I wanna keep We can end up stopping now Get up Get dressed

Make the bid And get the fuck out We can do it again We'll do it again in the future. See, I knew that it would be easy. The conversations that I've had with you in the past, I knew it would be easy to do a three-hour podcast with you. There's stuff I didn't talk about yet.

Do you have anything really important? Mom issues. You wrote all that down. What about Sodomy Sunday? We have not talked about that. Don't talk about that anymore. They've changed that rule about Sodomy Sunday? We have not talked about that. Don't talk about that anymore. They've changed that rule. What is it? Sodomy Monday?

If people want to get a hold of you on Twitter, it's not... Don't look for under John Hackleman because some fucking fakers out there. Look for Pitt underscore master. Pitt master is John Hackleman. Do you respond to Twitter shit? I love Twitter

shit. I'm on it. I love it. It's one of my favorite tools. Pit underscore master, please hit me up on Twitter. Pit underscore master. Thank you, brother. It was a lot of fun, man. I really enjoyed it. I appreciate you coming on. I can't believe it's over. I feel bad. We'll do it again. We're going to do it again. Three hours. All right. See you later.

We flew by. All right. See you later. It was fun. Thank you to Lumosity.com. Go to Lumosity.com forward slash Joe. I love you, Mom. Click on the Start Training button. I love you, Heather. Start playing your first game. Thanks to Onnit.com.

I love you, kids. Use the code word ROGAN and save 10% off any and all supplements. John Hackleman, much respect, my brother. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. We'll be back tomorrow with- Johnny Kickass.

Economist Peter Schiff. Yeah, Johnny Hackleman? Johnny Hackleman. Johnny Hackleman Peter Schiff Johnny Hackleman Johnny Hackleman go Johnny Hackleman much luck and yeah we'll be back tomorrow with Peter Schiff so we'll find out how the world works I don't understand it

hopefully you will we'll see ya big kiss