The Joe Rogan Experience - #462 - Steven Rinella, Doug Duren, Bryan Callen

Episode Date: February 26, 2014

Steven Rinella is an outdoorsman, author, and television host. He currently hosts "MeatEater" on the Sportsman Channel. Doug Duren is a passionate hunter, farmer, land manager and conservationist. Bryan Callen is an actor, stand-up comedian, and host of his own podcasts: "The Bryan Callen Show" and "the Ten Minute Podcast", with co-hosts Will Sasso and Chris D'Elia.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Boom, ladies and gentlemen. In late 2013, we went to the farm of one Douglas Duren in Upper Wisconsin. Actually, Southwest. Southwest. It's all the same. Anything in Wisconsin is Upper Wisconsin.

Yeah, it's nice. Exactly. It's not like we're like, wait, this is Southeast? I love Southwestisconsin way better no because it is a difference because these guys in wisconsin what they go by is that bottom quarter that bottom quadrant the bottom left quadrant sure is the they call it the driftless area because it didn't get demolished by glaciers yeah that's a good point because for folks who've never been to wisconsin you think of wisconsin as being like this flat area where, you know,

the reason why those areas are flat is because they got smushed. Yeah, there's a guy I know who lives up in the northeast, and he makes maple syrup, and he always makes a point to put on there from the drifted area of Wisconsin. Like he's trying to use that. Well, I don't understand. He doesn't want to get it. The glaciers came over and smushed it and flattened everything out.

What we really were was all hilly and beautiful and all the landscape is varied. That's because it didn't get smushed. Yeah, it was like a little median. It was like a little median between the lanes of glaciation. Yeah, it could have been miners. Yeah, they built it up real good. That was the thing. When we were in Montana, we were driving.

Brian's like, oh oh this is all mining large-scale mining what the fuck are you talking about this is a mine it's a river cut through here like the mining expert apparently i'm a mining expert i can tell by the topography at least you don't really believe what you're saying true you just start saying something and you just go with it for a goof i'll commit i'll commit but you know you don't commit with your ego you don't you don't really attach to it, which is fine. My mind has changed all the time. I talk about being a libertarian.

I had this guy, William Bernstein, who's written all these books on my podcast. And he started going, well, yeah. But then he started giving me examples of how being a libertarian wouldn't really help you if you're hoping that your kid isn't wearing something toxic. When you get on a plane, you want there to be an FD... Whatever it is. Yeah, whatever it is. Federal standards for flying.

Yeah, you're right. I back off everything I've been saying. Well, being a libertarian up to a point is not a bad idea. The problem with any ideology is you get lumped into... It's too rigid. They're making coffee in there. I thought i was

like i thought something's happening to me we used to call it we used to call it bulletproof coffee now we call it the rob wolf blend uh but anyway uh doug duran's farm you were so gracious to have us up there to film meat eater and we appreciate it very much and you know as i said on the show uh you you can have a different time but you can't have a better time. We had a fucking fantastic week there with your friends. You got a great group of guys that you go hunting with every weekend. And just a great group that represents what hunting really should be. A bunch of cool people having a good time, doing something that's fun, doing it ethically, and getting some great meat out of it. Can I talk about how I met Doug?

Sure. Because it speaks to Doug a little bit. I'll just sit here quietly. Doug's a very big man, by the way. Yeah, Doug's a big guy. A lot of bone, a lot of bone. Well, I met Doug after I wrote my Buffalo book. Doug wrote me a letter.

And usually letters, I don't even want to say what I was going to say. me a letter and usually like letters. I don't mean, I don't even want to say what I was going to say. Why not? You look at, you know, letters. I love to get letters. They're fantastic. You know what I mean? But a lot of times it's like people, you can't tell if they want to, you know, you can't really get, it's hard to determine sometimes what they're after. And I'm sure you get tons of them. Doug wrote me like a letter that made me actually be like, I am be like, I want to contact this person. It was just kind of like, I like your book and I heard this and here's what we got going on at my farm.

We started emailing back and forth. And Doug, I don't know what year this was, invited me to come out to his cold-ass farm. Every time he comes out, it's cold, so it's his fault. So I just went out there And I didn't know if I was going to get molested

I didn't know the guy By those big hands I know I was like big you know hands Molesting me out that place I left a note Telling my wife like if I don't call Next hour call 911 What a note this must have been

Call Casanova's version of 911 What a note this must have been To Call Casanova's version of 911. What a note this must have been to inspire you. I don't even know. It was like a moving note. I've never done anything like that. Ever. But I did. And I went out to Doug's cold farm. And it was real cold. And then I came back out. I came back out and it was

extremely cold. Did he meet you at the door in a robe? And a warm hot tie? No, I think he picked me up at the airport. I did pick you up at the airport. And we got a sack of cheese curds. I took him to my house. He met my wife so he could see everything was legit,

that I wasn't going to take him up to the woods right away. That's funny. And so you became friends. And I first saw Doug on your show, Meat Eater, best show on television. And I first saw Doug on your show, Meat Eater, best show on television. And I first saw the first hunt that you guys went on. You went on a deer hunt, and you shot some rabbits, and you made some rabbit stew. And it just looked like a great hangout.

You know, you guys had a really good time up there. So when Steve said, hey, you want to come to Doug's farm up in Wisconsin and hunt deer, I was like, fuck, yeah, that sounds awesome. I'll go on record right now and say that beaver might be the best meat I've ever had in my life. You're out of your fucking mind. And I'm not kidding about that. You're out of your fucking mind. It was good. It's not as good as venison.

Oh, it's so tender. Get out of here, bitch. That little rodent. Yeah, but can't you do like a thing, you know, you'll have a different meal, but you'll have a better meal. Yeah. You'll have different meat, you'll have a different meal, but you'll have a better meal? You'll have different meals. Beaver's very good. Beaver's very good.

But what I like about venison is you eat it rare. And you get that taste of the real blood, the animal. It's not disguised in a meal. You're eating the venison. I just couldn't believe how tender beaver was. Well, the way Steve cooked it, yeah. Yeah. It's real tender.

Yeah. I mean, you know, you really know what you're doing. Yeah, you've got to cook it a long time. You wouldn't be able to just take a hunk of beaver meat and grill it. No. Well, I've been doing that with that pig that we shot in Tihon Ranch, and that's tough. It's delicious, but it's tough.

You've got to chew it, yeah. Yeah, even if the the loin even the cooking the loin because first of all you got to cook it all the way through it's got to be you know it's got to be like medium because it's pork right you know but it's not like venison like venison is just like so soft and delicious yeah pork's good man pork loin is damn delicious but it's this is definitely tougher it's definitely tougher Right. So how did the mule deer venison compare to the whitetail? The whitetail was so damn good. I don't think you can get better tasting meat on the planet.

That whitetail venison that we made in your kitchen when we cooked up those back straps. That was good, man. That's the best meat I've ever had. I don't think it gets any better. I mean, the way you cooked it with that butter and that salt and the garlic salt. Oh, and a hot flame on a cast iron. That was the key. Oh, my God.

We got to use butter and then get that grill, the griddle really hot and just cook that bitch for just not even like 30 seconds each side. Yeah. And then beating it up with a beer bottle. Smash it down. Yeah, smash it down with a beer bottle. So you cut like, you know, an inch thick, cute, you know, a slice of the loin. Pound it down so it's kind of flat. And then when you throw it in there, seriously, 30 seconds each side max.

Crackle, crackle, and then oh. It's so good. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I mean, I love elk. I've had, you know, elk that's just about as good as any meat I've ever had in my life. I think, but the back straps cook that way. It's hard to fuck with. And plus, those deer that we shot at your farm are so fat and healthy.

Those are some healthy deer, man. Those are corn-fed deer and young also. They were also young. That's bad. That's the bad part. How much different do they taste if they're really old? It makes a bit of a difference. What's the oldest deer you've ever shot, you think?

That one buck I shot, he was at least five and a half. It gets hard to tell after a while, right? Age-wise, yeah. You do it by their teeth? Yeah. You take it to a DNR station, and they'll look at it, and they'll say it's two and a half. It seems like every deer is two and a half years old because they can't make a mistake there or something but um i guess that one at at five and a half just based on the teeth and then i shot one uh with

mike harkins uh or hutch as he's affectionately known by steve um a couple of years ago that was an older deer than that and it was that was a little A little gamey Yeah You know Gamey is the wrong word Cameron Haynes I don't think Whitetail's ever gamey Cameron Haynes was on the podcast And he shot a water buffalo That was 20 years old

Oh yeah Yeah And he said He had a piece of meat That he put in his mouth There at the camp And he was practicing With his bow

He said he practiced With his bow for a half an hour With the same piece of meat In his mouth Just like packing a chaw man Just trying to break it down. Couldn't break it down. I killed a black bear that was 17.

They do a tooth dent thing. 17-year-old bear. Wow. How long did they live, black bears? About that. Wow. How did it taste? Well, I mean, they get a little older, but he was 17, and I sent his tongue in.

Old bear. Montana State University used to run a program where you could send a chunk of the tongue in and they'd do a test for trichinosis on the tongue I guess you get a good concentration of the tongue good concentration of the shoulders so I butchered this whole thing it was funny as hell

my roommate, I was in school and my roommate was cutting fish at this buy low grocery and he's like well shit let's just take that berry down and grind it after hours at work you know so we go down there this thing looked like we went down there and run it through the grinders we had those little you know those little foam things they get meat on this stuff looked like i mean my freezer looked like someone had just went and raided a grocery store because i had all those foam bottom things the saran right i just looked perfect man like stacked up like bars of gold and then we got done

i mean we cleaned you know we cleaned but i started wondering about the depth of cleaning we did because a couple weeks go by and they sent me this thing like yeah your bear is trichinosis positive uh-oh you can go ahead and throw the bear out if you want but we won't reissue you a new bear tag so if you you now have the right to like you can get around because it's illegal to waste game meat right so it's wanton waste law they said you're exempt from wanton waste on that bear but you can throw it out but we won't give you a new tag and i just went down and bought a meat thermometer i had a hundred this bear was you couldn't even think about even moving this bear you know i had

a i think it was 100 it was either 130 or 160 pounds of freaking ground meat off that bear. Oh, damn. I ate it to the bitter end, man, with that freaking meat thermometer. I'd be out in my yard with freaking bear burgers on that meat thermometer. I do say freaking. Yeah. Because I'm afraid my mom's listening. You got to cook it to a certain degree.

My mom listens to Joe's podcast. We were talking about it before the podcast started. We were saying that Steve's one of those guys that says frickin' when he doesn't have to. Yeah, I don't even know it. You didn't realize it. Because I know that my mom likes to listen to your show, man. So what's the temperature that kills trichinosis? I just looked this up the other day.

150? No, it's 155 or 150. I can't remember. 154 or 155. It's like a gangster trichinosis survivor. But you know, they just looked this up the other day. 150? No, it's 155 or 150. I can't remember. 154. Gangster trichinosis. But you know, they just changed it. You know, the USDA just lowered pork. Really?

Because USDA inspected pork. I mean, 90% of the trichinosis cases in the U.S. are coming out of black bear meat. That's incredible. I heard that on your podcast. Yeah. Because now they control how they feed pigs. So they lowered the temperature on pork because I think what they eventually found out is the way people used to be able to fatten pigs, the restaurant slop. And restaurant slop had rats and mice in it.

And rats and mice are picking up trichinosis by eating flesh. Nothing's born with trichinosis that has to get it through consumption of an infected animal. And when they got it figured out enough where they know what's going into the mouths of inspected pork, they don't have any more. Now they say you don't need to cook pork to... It can be rare. You get a rare pork. It's like...

They serve it medium in fancy restaurants. I can't believe Doug's not... Doug's like always fact checks everything you say as you say it. I can't believe he's not... I shut my phone off, Steve, because I'm just going to go, you know, however... Do you ever hunt wild pigs, Doug? I have never done it. You should come with us.

I'd love to. There's a place up here, the Tohono Ranch. They're infested. It's incredible. They got a lot of them. Oh, they're everywhere, and they're wild, man. Me and Steve and Cody, Cody the guide, we were walking down this road, and I'm telling you, like, where that curtain is, there were some pigs

duking it out. We couldn't see them because they were in the bush and we're sitting there waiting for one to pop out. It's like you're in a monster movie or something. There's some gremlins duking it out. They carry on. The brush is shaking. They had no idea we were there.

Did they do a show before they come out? They had no idea we were there so they were just making before they come out? They had no idea we were there, so they were just making all this crazy noise. Wow. I mean, 15, 20 feet away maybe. Jeez. I was in Austin, and when I came off stage, this guy who was introduced to me, my buddy used to be this Delta guy, Delta Force guy. So his buddy was a SEAL, SEAL Team 6 guy.

So we got to know each other and talking, and he said, Look, man, I'm a huge fan of Joe Rogan's. He other and talking and and uh he said look man uh i'm i'm a huge fan of joe rogan's uh he and i think alike and he said if you guys ever want to come down to austin we'll throw you in a couple small birds that would be helicopters and you guys can shoot pigs with a belt fed machine gun see he doesn't know me that well i don't have any desire to do i like hunting pigs but i i you know i felt weird about doing it out of a truck. Right. I felt weird about driving around in a truck and jumping out and bang.

You don't want to pull a Ted Nugent. Well, it looks like fun for sure. And if it was my farm, don't get me wrong, if I had a giant farm and these pigs were fucking up my farm, I would absolutely hire Ted Nugent and Pigman to fly around and shoot nuclear weapons at them. Nukes. But the reality is, that's not what I want. You're not going to fly down to Austin, strap into a helicopter. It seems like it would be a lot of fun,

but it might turn on an area of your brain that you don't really want turned on. Well, my buddy literally goes, oh, I'll teach you. I'm really good at shooting from a helicopter. I'll teach you all about that. A lot of guys don't know how to teach you. I'll teach you exactly how to do it. Not a skill set I necessarily, I don't really need it. You know, I don't plan on, you know, it's like, all right, well, thanks, I guess.

That pig man dude shot a pig from a helicopter with a bow and arrow. What? Yeah. Really? Yeah, he had to compensate. That's impressive. He had to compensate for the downdraft. You have to shoot like way over the pig's head.

Oh, because he's sho. And the arrow drops down. That's impressive. He shot from about 20 yards, too. And it wasn't that close. So 20 yards with the downdraft. You've got to gauge it all and try to figure out. That's crazy. Yeah, but he also killed like 400 of them that day with a machine gun.

I'm not kidding. 400 pigs. They've done it twice. Him and Ted Nugent have done it twice. They call it a porkalypse. There's a porkalypse one, and there's a porkalypse two. I mean, it's basically like Apocalypse Now. That scene in Apocalypse Now.

If you're going to eat the deer. Look, look, look, look. Look at the screen. Oh, my God. Look up, look up. If you're going to eat it, then, you know. Look, he's got a fucking bear. Look at him. He hates pig.

He's got a bear bow. He hates pig. And he's going gonna shoot this fucking pig From a helicopter Look at this shit Look at that That's incredible Boom

Oh that's impressive That is very impressive Hit it back kinda bad there Well I mean what do you expect Fucking pig's running He's in a helicopter There's a lot of shit going on there

You're criticizing Did the pig pile up? No That pig looked like It didn't even notice But they never found that pig? Oh yeah they got that pig They got them all going on there. That'd be a shot to take is all I'm saying. Did the pig pile up? No. No, it went running. That pig looked like it didn't even notice. But they never found that pig? Oh yeah, they got that pig.

They got them all. I mean, they killed 400 pigs that day. I mean, I'm not exaggerating when I say 400 pigs. Now, when you see pigs like that, those are not indigenous

to the land. Absolutely not. No, man, they're from Eurasia. They used to be all over from North Africa to British Isles. So they are,

were they domestic pigs and now they are wild pigs? It happens a whole bunch of ways. How? Am I allowed to? What? Yeah. What do you want? I just wanted to get into a geeky pig thing.

No, no, no. Please, go ahead. I thought it was a secret or something. Oh, no, no, no, no. Can I tell? I got confused. I thought it was a secret or something. Oh, no, no, no, no. Can I tell?

I got confused. Like every pig, whether it's in a farm, barnyard, feral, wild, okay, Eurasian boar, razorback, whatever name you hear applied to it, all is like Seuss Scroffa. It's all the same species. So prior to domestication by humans, this species was found all over Europe and Asia. Like, I mean, they were in the British Isles, North Africa, in the Middle East, all over, you know, what is now Russia. Okay, they were everywhere.

Right. Europe. But slowly over time, different people in different areas domesticated and developed domestic strains off of this, you know sue scroff off the wild pig and they then spread it around the rest of the world where it didn't exist like polynesians brought wild pigs to hawaii perhaps 1100 years ago and they showed up there right but then at

the same time you've made there's maintain like the actual ancestral population in certain pockets where you really have like the actual wild pig that became the basis like what we got the cow from is an animal called the oryx but the oryx went extinct so now we can't look back and go like so what was the cow right like what did we make cows right but we know in this case what it was and it still exists out there so we had where people brought these domestic strains around and inevitably they go feral okay so de soto released pigs inadvertently released pigs in you know the new world hundreds of years ago according to charles man that's kind of one of the reasons that that that might have been what what caused the plagues they yeah you're talking

about that book 1491 yeah yeah you know it might have been the reason that a lot of Native Americans died in such massive numbers from typhus and all kinds of things. Because pigs share so many diseases. But then at the same time, what would start to happen, especially in the late 1800s, early 1900s, is people started going and catching the ancestral pigs, undomesticated ancestral pigs, taking them as wild creatures and cutting them loose. So in California, a lot of areas in California, you go there and the pigs resemble, and there's some introgression probably from domestic strains,

but they really, like, you look at them, you're looking at what we now call a Eurasian boar. They got long snout, razorback, I mean, everything about them, like, straight tail, everything about them screams like wild pig, and you're kind of looking at what is the wild pig. In other places, you can go and they're just as wild, but they're feral domestics. How big

is the original boar? How big do those get? It's funny. There they get big. They'll shoot ones in the wild that can be 400 or 500 pounds. Wow. I mean, I think that's pretty – that's like a big boar, but they get even bigger than that. How much of that is muscle?

Oh, yeah, but that pig was such BS. That whole Hogzilla thing is total BS. Well, it's a perspective issue for sure. Well, yeah. Well, a guy's like – he sees one of these Hogzillas show up and he goes, I sold that guy that pig a week ago. What? You don't know about this?

And then he turns up and he's got a picture up in the back of his truck. Wait, what? Which guy is it? There's a few of those hogzillas out there. Yeah, those are domestic strains, okay? And every hogzilla in his past was sitting there on a corn crib. It's not unusual to make an 1,100-pound domestic. Doug knows more about livestock than any of all of us

put together. Hold that picture up again. So that guy basically just covered that thing in dirt? No, listen. You can take a domestic pig. Leave him intact or whatever. Give him all the corn he's going to want and you can make giant pigs. Then all you do is you take it out and do

a penned place. Turn it out on a penned location, and then you go like hunt it. In quotes. Yeah. That's interesting. That's hilarious. And they're just buying them and putting them out there.

Now that thing has hair all over it. You know, Nugent runs those things. He runs things where he runs like these little penned facilities where they got like supposedly wild pigs in a penned area and people come out and pretend to hunt for them. And it's like, one of these pogzillas that turned up, it wound up there's a picture of it. There's a picture of the guy

with it in the back of his pickup. That's hilarious. It would want to be that some guy bought it for his kid to shoot. And he cut it out on some little parcel of land. But when you've got a wild boar that's 500 pounds, how much of that is muscle?

They've got a high yield, man. A lot of game animals have 40% yield. I mean, pigs have a high yield. On a wild one, it's got to be 50% yield. Ronella and I, okay, we shot this pig. It's 5.15. 5.15 p.m. It gets dark at 5.30. And the pig is probably

like 200 pounds. We take this pig and I shoot it and it rolls down this fucking hill. I mean, this hill is like really steep. Yeah. I mean, hard to walk up. Like really steep to just walk. You kind of have to crawl up it. God.

So we have to figure out how to get this pig out. We try to drag it up with this guy's cord. He tries to pull it with his truck. That's a good word for that rope. Yeah. It's a cord. The cord keeps catching on rocks and snaps. It that rope. Yeah, it's a cord. The cord keeps catching on rocks and snaps.

It snaps twice. So we're like, fuck, what do we do? So we're trying to figure out what to do. I said frick. Yeah, he said frick. So Steve says we should cut it. We should butcher it, cut it up, and then walk up the hill with it. But Cody, the guide, says you guys should kick it down to the bottom of the hill. There's a creek bed there.

And you'd be, like, pushing it the whole way. And then at the end of it is a street. And I'll come get you the street. Well, I guess he was a little off in his fucking topography. He didn't really recognize how fucking far the hill goes down. Right. We were. And by the way, pushing a 200-pound pig is not like it has wheels.

We tried it. We tried to push this thing for, pushing a 200-pound pig, it's not like it has wheels. We tried it. We tried to push this thing for like, I don't know, like two or three hours. First of all, I... Yeah, you'd roll and it'd just wind up in like some hellhole. And then we wound up in the hellhole. All hellhole. They can't float it down the stream. So we're down there.

We're at the bottom now. We're nowhere near close to the road. We're fucking miles from the road, okay? And we got this pig, and it's pitch black out. I mean in pitch black. You can see stars in the sky. We're hearing twigs snap behind us because there's only like 50 mountain lions up there in Tohon Ranch. This one fucking waterhole they have, he told us we have pictures of 16 different mountain lions at this one waterhole.

It's a huge ranch. Holy shit. This ranch is 270 plus thousand acres. Yeah, California banned lion hunting. So there's a lot of lions. So they're all over. They're all over the place. So Steve says, look, we gotta cut this thing up. There's no way we're gonna get this thing out of here. We'll cut it up.

We'll throw half over our shoulders and we'll just carry it out. Seems most reasonable, right? We're cutting this thing and Steve's joking. Oh, there's a lion behind us. I hear a lion. Because we hear, like, snap, crack. We hear, like, twigs snapping.

And we're out there with blood all over our hands, pulling hearts out of this fucking thing. That's lion bait. Then we have to carry it. And we carry it for, what, another two fucking hours or something like that? And it's starting to get really sketchy because it's super steep. It's dark as fuck. Can't see where we're going.

I'm slipping all over the place. And I'm like, I'm going to, I've twisted my knee up, kind of fucked up, not bad, but I'm like, I'm going to fucking break my neck. Like this is, this is kind of crazy. We finally get to the bottom after like who knows how many fucking hours. Cody meets us there. We want to hang in this pig up. But where we came to just so happened to be an ancient shack that they had built during Prohibition so that Hollywood people could come up there and drink booze.

They had a still. Built out of native timber with fireplaces made out of native rock. The most amazing place. God. I'm going to put it. For folks who are listening right now, I'm going to throw photos of it. I'll throw it up on Instagram while we're doing this podcast. Incredible.

Like, you can't even imagine the work that went into this place, man. Yeah, it was really fucking cool. It's just in the ground. You can't even, you can't drive to it. So it's run down and just sitting there now. It's falling. It's like the ruins. It's beyond, there's no saving it.

Yeah, it was really incredible. So you get to that thing. Yeah. We just hung it up off of overhead hanging over a drainage. Wow. This is the shack. So let me ask you this. Is there any danger of a mountain lion coming to attack? Well, we were armed.

Oh, you mean coming to get the meat overnight? No. I mean, any danger of getting attacked by a mountain lion? No, man. In the last, what, 80 years? In the last 80 years, there's been like maybe more than 80 years, there's been like, maybe more than 80 years, there's been six or seven lion fatalities in that amount of years. Did you hear in Washington State yesterday,

an 11-year-old girl shot a mountain lion that was going after her brother? You want to talk about a little gangster kid? Wow. Yeah, pull up that story. Hold on. 11-year-old. Yeah, this was yesterday. It was a 50-pound cat.

Apparently the cat was like real skinny, and they were saying it was probably just starving. He was hurting. It's aold cat. Apparently the cat was a 50-pound cat. Apparently the cat was real skinny, and they were saying it was probably just starving. He was hurting. It's a small cat. Yeah. No, lions, I mean, it drives me nuts when people act like lions are any more dangerous. Well, you said after all the- They're not as dangerous as yellow jackets or ground-nesting hornets.

I'm scared of all them, too. They're not. They're out there- They can all go fuck themselves. They're out there with the- I mean, they're feeding on these hogs at this place. Oh, they got to be cleaning house on hogs, man. Come on, you can run them down. 11-year-old girl kills a mountain lion.

Look at this little girl. And they got a picture of the cat. This fucking little girl, she's 11 years old, shot a fucking mountain lion. She shot that mountain lion? No, there's a, no, no, no. That's a picture of a mountain lion. There's a picture of the girl. I was like, it must not have been a too stressful situation. She shot that mountain lion? No, there's a... No, no, no. That's a picture of him. There's a picture of the girl. I was like,

it must not have been a too stressful situation. She got a nice picture. You look pretty healthy. Well, the girl, apparently she's a hunter and her whole family hunts and so she knew

how to use a gun. There's a picture of her with a raccoon that she killed that's available online. She knows how to use a gun and this fucking panther was coming after her brother, and she shot it. That's a crack shot for an 11-year-old to shoot a fucking mountain lion.

So can I go back to the machine gun out of the helicopter thing? Yeah, you can. So needless to say, well, maybe I will say that that's not something that I have any interest in, but what I do have an interest in is talking about how good of shots you two were. I was just amazed. This is my favorite topic right now. Well, the cashmere killer, yeah, exactly. I learned from Steve Rinella.

I learned from the best. Well, and what was so gratifying about the way you guys hunted and the way you were there, and I'm just thinking about Brian and how that deer came down through the woods, and he way you were there and and and i'm just thinking about brian and how that deer came down through the woods and you know he's on it and he's on it and it's like yep i've got it boom one shot down it went that's in my book the way it ought to be done they call me game eye of course it wasn't that far away but i appreciate well you know what man i'll tell you ever since i started started practicing archery and practicing with bows and arrows, and I've been doing it for a few months now,

you really like shooting, aiming with a rifle when you can actually rest the rifle down on something and look through a scope. Yeah. God damn, is that easy in comparison to a bow and arrow. It's effective, man. It's way more effective. Yeah. It's fucking hard to aim at something more than 30 yards away with a bow and arrow,

especially like a live animal. For that matter, it's hard to stand with a bow and arrow, especially like a live animal. For that matter, it's hard to stand with a scope and try to shoot. Yes. I don't think you'd ever do that anyway, right? Well, I've been doing that. I've been doing that at the range. Really? Yeah, I've been doing almost all my practicing.

Whole different game, right? Whole different ball game. Well, even sitting. Even sitting. I've been doing almost all my practicing at the range locked into my shoulder. Because I remember when we were pig hunting, I had one shot. The one pig that I missed. I was trying to rest up against a tree and I'd never done it before.

I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. This is a weird thing to try to put the gun up against a tree. It felt awkward. So I've been practicing just like this, just sitting there like this with my elbow up against my body, practicing. With your knee up? Yeah. It's a whole different thing.

I did a few standing. It's fucking hard. Yeah, I don't know many serious hunters who've been in a lot of situations who take even 100-yard shots without having a rest. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's also better with...

Unless something's, like, heading out. Well, that, yeah. In fact, that last day we hunted. Yeah, generally you'd want to. I mean, freehand shooting out to a certain is real deadly out to, you know, at close range. But, you know, you imagine the trajectory of that thing. And, you know, if you're an inch off at 10 yards, you're two inches off at 20 yards and on and on and on. And then you run the risk of injuring the animal.

So, you know, you got to be careful yeah not getting it but rarely when you're hunting do you get the the chance to shoot uh you know as we would off the bench or when we were just practicing in our place so you do need to be able to you know adjust and lean off of something and that was the other thing you did i when we first got in the blind, I was like, and you were kept pulling the, I mean, I just don't do that. You know, pulling the gun up

and pointing it out the window. I love it. I love it. He's just like pointing it in different places. I'm like, yeah, watching him and okay.

Was that bad? Well, no, no. I mean, he was moving a lot. He does move a lot. Move a lot.

And I'm kinetic and I kept trying to look through the scope. You're kinetic? I go through these weird games where I'm like pretending I'm at war and I'm looking through my scope for the enemy. What the fuck is wrong're kinetic? I go through these weird games where I'm pretending I'm at war and I'm looking through my scope for the enemy.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Because I'm 12 years old. I'm at war. 12 years old. I'm pretending I'm at war. I'm such a bitch. I had a warm thermos in my tummy, and I had all those heating pads. I stayed very toasty.

The point is that he then took the rest, made the point is, is that he then, you know, took the rest, made the shot twice. Yeah. And, I mean, he shot two different deer. And I guess what I was going to say about shooting is that if you are in a situation where, like, I don't know if it made, I missed a buck on that last day that we hunted. And, you know, jumped him and he ran and, you know, I had to, i took like three steps down the hill and he wasn't very far away i didn't just clean mist and uh but i will i practice shooting that way i mean i don't shoot a lot but i will actually practice you know freehand but i'm not you're right i'm not going to shoot 100 yards or 150 yards at something but 50 or 75 i mean i've killed a lot of deer really close well because

they get up it run and boom. It's amazing how when you get that deer in your sights, you know, like everything goes away, right? I mean, it's just like, it almost feels, it's almost like that's the rush when it's there. Yeah, you're not thinking about your chore list. Do you have an Instagram? Do you have an Instagram?

No. Oh, yeah. He says no. What is it? Meat Eater TV? Trophy Country. Meat Eater TV. Oh, it is?

Steve's is Steve and Rinoa. TV. Steve's is Steven Rinella. Steve's is Steven Rinella? I've been doing videos on my Instagram with Brendan Shaw. We're not asking about you, are we? I'll show it to you later. I'm not really interested. Oh, no, you are.

I want to have Doug talk about the deer on his place and all that, but one thing that's just really bugging the hell out of me is last time I was on here, I said something wrong. Oh, okay. I was talking about Tohon Ranch, and I said they have Thule elk, which is a native elk in California.

Yeah. There's like the elk are divided like Rocky Mountain elk, Thule's, Roosevelt's. And I was saying they had Tuleys, which is the native California elk on Tohono. They don't. There are some real close to there. But those are Rocky Mountains.

Thank God you cleared that up because it's been bugging me. It's been driving me nuts, man. But no, it is important because the Tuley elk aren't as big. The Rocky Mountain elk are unusual for that area.

And the only place in California that has them is Tohono Ranch. And they busted free from some guy that had a captive facility and they busted free 50 years ago and now run wild out there it's incredible we only got to see a few of them but we tankers man yeah huge because they don't have a winter problem like a lot of the elk in the mountains do like i mean there was snow while we were up there but it's not snow where they don't have food no they're getting fat they're probably putting fat on right now. These fucking elk were giants.

We saw some cows. We saw one bull from a distance, but Steve picked up a shed that was like a fucking limb on a 100-year-old oak tree. It was huge. It was longer than both of my arms. It fucking was huge. I mean, they regularly, you know. What do they weigh?

Oh, 1,000, you know, 1,200 pounds. That's a horse. That's the size of a horse. They're huge out there. They're huge out there. And I should tell everybody that's interested, you can hunt at that place. They were kind enough to bring us up there and let Steve and I hunt there. But, you know, anybody can go hunting there.

You hire a guide and you pay for it. It's not cheap, but it is a game-rich place. Yeah, you'll get a pig, man. Or deer. Yeah, but the most economical thing. Can you hunt elk up there or not? Yes, you can. They do.

Yeah, you can. I think that they're saying they kill a handful of elk off that place every year. But they kill thousands of pigs off that place every year. It's unbelievably bad. They do really aggressive pig culling out of that place. Well, six, I think. But they kill thousands of pigs off that place every year. It's unbelievably bad. They do really aggressive pig culling out of that place. Well, they have to. I heard you can't shoot your way out of a pig problem. No, they keep a handle on me.

But they, I mean, throughout the year, on average, they're killing many, like several a day just to keep grips on it. Look at that. Look at Joe. Look at that. That's Joe. Look at that. That's the pig that we shot. Now, that's got a long snout. Is that a wild pig?

That's a very Russian-looking Eurasian pig. That Tohon Ranch, if you're in L.A. and you're looking for a place to hunt, that is a game-rich environment. It's only an hour and a half outside of L.A. Real nice folks who run that place. And that dude, Cody Plank, is solid. Yeah, very, very nice guy. He's got Mike Toth out there as well. Very nice guys, both of L.A. Real nice folks who run that place. And that dude, Cody Plank, is solid. Yeah, very, very nice guy. He's got Mike Toth out there as well.

Very nice guys, both of them. We had a great time. Cody was your guide? Yeah. Yep, he took us out, showed us everything. I mean, the place is gigantic. We saw at least 50 deer. We saw at least, I don't know how many fucking pigs.

A hundred, easily. Easily a hundred pigs. In the two days we were there, we saw about maybe seven or eight elk. We saw turkeys. We saw about a dozen turkeys. We saw everything. I got a buddy in New Mexico whose buddy works out there at an administrative level out there. He kept telling me over the years,

and this guy hunts a lot of serious backcountry hunting, my friend in New Mexico. He kept saying, man, you got to go out and see this home place. You would never in a million years guess that's sitting there. Never. You get way up high and there's cedar. There's a ton of. Never. And then you get way up high and there's cedars. There's a ton of different biotypes there. You get way up high and there's cedars. You couldn't imagine.

You can then drive out of there and go down to LAX and fly. Yeah, an hour and a half. It's crazy. It is so badass. Not only that, it's a private ranch, so there's not that many people up there. It's not fenced in. How big is the ranch? I already told you, you weren't paying attention.

A quarter million acres. He doesn't listen. A quarter million acres. If you're't paying attention. A quarter million acres. He doesn't listen. A quarter million acres. If you're talking and he doesn't get to talk, he doesn't listen. No, I'm not good with numbers. But I do want to get something because I do want to bring up something like management. So they work really hard out there. They work hard to keep a grip on the pigs because pigs are hard on ground nesting birds. For instance, there used to be a lot of quail out there, they work hard to keep a grip on the pigs. Because pigs are hard on ground nesting birds.

For instance, there used to be a lot of quail out there. They suspect, and there used to be a lot of turkeys out there. And antelope. They suspect that one of the things that might be going on with quail out there is just pigs. Because they hammer eggs. They like to eat ground nesting birds. So they do a lot to do that.

But in general... But I want to bring up deer. I want to talk do a lot to do that. But in general. But I want to bring up deer. I want to talk about deer in southwest Wisconsin. Look at that place. That's the pig ranch. Before we talk about deer, the other thing was the two pictures. You had the one of the hogzilla, and that looked like a domestic pig.

Yeah, man. We used to raise on the farm. Yeah, the short snout. When I was a kid, we had big. Short snout as opposed to the one that I shot. As opposed to the Eurasian, and that was a good example of Short snout, as opposed to the one that I shot. As opposed to the erasure, and that was a good example of those two different ones. But then you go to New Zealand, I hunted pigs in New Zealand,

and every one of those pigs looks like something that's walked off a farm. They look gray, and then you throw them in a creek, and they'll get the mud off, and they'll be like black

and white and brown, man. A creek is a creek. If it has a... It's a creek. Throw them in a creek. A creek is a creek, according to Patrick McManus. If you can find automotive parts in it, it's, no. It's a crick. A crick is a crick, according to Patrick McManus. If you can find automotive parts in it, it's a crick.

If it's clean, it's a crick. And this is most certainly crick-like. If you went up and down, you'd find a spare tire, making it a crick. But the other thing about pigs, too, is when I was a kid, we had pigs on it. I forgot you were here. I keep trying to tee it off. It's his first time in the media. Give him a break.

I'm trying to tee Doug off, talk about his damn farm. Go on, Doug. So let me talk about the farm for a minute then. Please do. We raised pigs when I was a kid, and there were chickens on the farm at one point. We had dairy cattle and all that kind of stuff. But the pigs were never anything, when you say domestic, you could see where as soon as the fence is open, they're gone.

They're not like Holsteins or even the Herfords that you saw or the Angus that I had there. They'll come around and they'll just stand there by you and stuff. Pigs were pretty quick to take off. He's like, if I get out of here, I'm going to eat that son of a bitch and then go into the woods. So they'll naturally forage. They'll just go to the woods. Right.

And Steve's comment about the quail and the turkey makes complete sense because they're, what do we call them? Rooting around in the... Rooting. They're rooting. Rooting. They're rooting around. Rooting about. Rooting.

And that's what they do. So they're always tearing stuff up. So anything that's a ground nester is going to be, of course, it's going to be in harm's way. So it makes complete sense that that's an issue. Quail ain't doing much against the pig. And one sow pig has 16, between 10 and 20 little ones each time they I wonder how animal

They'll crank out multiple a year Meanwhile a deer is putting off one or two fawns a year Back to the darn deer again I wonder how animal rights activists feel about pig hunting because that is clearly an animal that you have to control their population That's the thing

When I went to New Zealand, all the animals in New Zealand are, not all the animals, but, you know. Game animals. Yeah, the game animals are all introduced. And there, the guys that like to hunt there are always complaining about the greenies, you know. And their complaint about the greenies in New Zealand is the greenies want to kill all the animals. Oh, that's hilarious. They want to preserve native ecosystems. So these damn greenies

would like to get up in the helicopters and shoot all the animals. That's hilarious. That's the opposite. You're allowed to do crazy shit there. You can hunt Canadian goose with a rifle, right? You can do a lot crazier than that. I mean, there's no...

They have active programs. They have active programs where there's like government shooters who are just shooting because they have no predators. Well, they can't introduce predators. They can't do that. No, because they have... Sheep is a huge... Well, sheep cause a major problem with pollution, apparently. Well, their take on it is they're not going to introduce methane gas.

Well, I mean, great. I mean, there's all kinds of... It literally was a problem. Smog was a problem in New Zealand. Look this up. It was a problem from their... Yes, from their farts, from the methane gas. But I don't think methane forms a smog.

It does form a smog, and it was a major issue in New Zealand. Methane gas was a major smog problem, and I don't know if it still is. I doubt they put devices on their asses to clean them. I heard they put bags. They put bags. Are you fat? Are you fat? So, Doug, this place you got, right?

Well, I'm curious about this now. Look at this. Look at this. Sheep flatulence pollution law. Oh, there you go. I believed him because he said, look it up. Yeah. Other times he just says it with authority and expects you to believe it.

He doesn't bullshit. No, I just say it. Brian Cowan talks a lot, but he doesn't bullshit. No, I know what I'm saying. That's incredible. Isn't that amazing? Well, it's an issue in California, too. I knew it was an issue in Pennsylvania.

My parents used to live in Harrisburg, and there was an area that I used to drive. When I was living in New York, I'd drive to Pennsylvania. There was an area where you could not roll your fucking window down. You couldn't do it. You would die. Manure pools. Just like it smelled like ammonia. So bad.

It stunk so horribly. It made you not want to eat meat. It really did. You know, I went to China literally in 1985. I think it was, in in fact it was 1983. I was with my family. We went to the mainland of China. And I don't know if I ever told you this.

We go to a restaurant in Canton. Where is that? Doesn't matter. Oh, you told me about this. And underneath the restaurant were pigs. So underneath the restaurant were pigs. A lot of pigs. The pigs so under the restaurant were pigs a lot of pigs the pigs were eating the shit that so you you would take a dump and it would come down and the pigs would eat the shit

and then they would eat all the slops from the restaurant but they were eating human feces and then they were eating those pigs and then they're eating those pigs they're mostly that joke it's like that joke the punchline is i had lunch with him two weeks ago Monday. You know that joke? No. Wasn't that always the job of pigs? Didn't they eat really gross stuff like that? They'll eat anything.

My dad used to always say, you lay there long enough and he'll eat you. Oh, they will? That's the number one animal that kills livestock that kills farmers. A guy died recently. They think he might have had a heart attack. I think it was in Oh, they will. That's the number one animal that kills livestock that kills farmers. Oh, really? Yeah, a guy died recently. They think he might have had a heart attack.

I think it was in Washington State. He fell into his pigsty, and they just fucking devoured him. They found his clothes, like parts of his clothes left. Wow. They say that the mafia in Italy would feed him to the hogs. Well, there's that movie Snatch. Remember the movie Snatch? Yeah, and it's in the Deadwood.

Oh, isn't that too. Oh, that's right. But it is true. There it is. There's the scene. That'll eat your head and everything, huh? There's the scene. Clean it up. That guy was awesome.

The best thing to do is feed them to pigs. You've got to starve the pigs for a few days. Then the sight of a chopped up body will look like curry to a piss head. You've got to shave the heads of your victims and pull the teeth out for the sake of the piggies digestion you could do this afterwards of course but you don't want to go sieving through pig shit now do you they will go through bone like butter you need at least 16 pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute.

Hence the expression, as greedy as a pig. God, is that guy freaky. Oh my God. That was a great character, that guy. What a great movie. I just realized I've never seen that movie. You've never seen Snatch? No. Really? I've never seen it.

Oh, fucking tremendous movie. That's Guy Ritchie's masterpiece. Wow, I've got to see that. That's a great movie, man. I liked Lock, Sock, and Two Smoking Barrels. So you never saw the Brad Pitt character? I saw a little bit where's a great movie, man. I liked Lock, Sock, and Two Smoking Barrels. So you never saw the Brad Pitt character? I saw a little bit where he's a boxer, yeah. Yeah, but he has the accent that was... Gypsy?

Yeah. It's gypsy. What's the word? Cockney? No, it's not cockney. Cockney's not... Yeah, it's a gypsy accent. They have like a gibberish sort of a way of talking

where you really can't understand them. It's really difficult to understand. They use rhyming slang and stuff. I've heard it in London. You can't understand a thing they're saying. He travels. He's worldwide. I won't lie to you.

I travel a great deal. What were we talking about right before the podcast started? Who cares? We're talking about me now. I said you have to bring this up on the podcast. Oh, yeah. So I did a podcast today with a guy from crack.com, Dan O'Brien, who wrote a really funny book called How to Fight Presidents. He literally took every president in the history of America to see who is

the baddest ass, who's the one guy you wouldn't want to fight, and who would win in a fight if they were pitted against each other. It's in some ways the greatest book of all time. Like I said, I go, this is going to be the greatest podcast of all time. It was the funniest thing because we got into a heavy-heated argument about who would win in a fight. And you've got to put a couple presidents up at the top of the list. You've got to put Abe Lincoln, because he was renowned for his physical

strength. There it is. He fought vampires too, right? Well, he did, but he used an axe. But Abe Lincoln was 6'4", and had what's that disease where your arms are longer? You have really long arms, like longer than your body. He had an axe. But Abe Lincoln was 6'4", and had that disease where your arms are longer. You have really long arms, like longer than your body. He had crazy long arms. And he was known to be really strong and very, very tough.

Honest Abe was. I'm sorry? Honest Abe was. Honest Abe was. I think you also have to think of people that lived during that era. They were a lot tougher. Oh, yeah. Period.

They grew up doing everything with their hands, right? Building things. Andrew Jackson was a genocidal. I mean, he committed a lot tougher. Oh, yeah. They grew up doing everything with their hands, right? Building things. Andrew Jackson was a genocidist. I mean, he committed a little something called genocide. If you talk to historians, they're like, well, he killed a great deal of Native Americans with extreme prejudice.

I don't know. What do you think? That's a strong word. It's a strong word. I don't think disease transmission counts. I agree with you. Is that what he did? He did lead.

He was a soldier and did – I mean he was a – he clearly probably killed a lot of men with his bare hands. I mean not with his bare hands but certainly with a gun or a knife. I mean he was a pretty warlike fella. Yeah. And in fact challenged – he had a number of duels. Historians are actually – he got shot and lived most of his life with a bullet in his ribcage. He had shitty guns back then. Well, yeah.

But he had it. He had to clean through. There's a debate on how many duels he actually had. When there's a debate on how many duels you have. And you're a fucking president. You're a bad motherfucker. Or you're an idiot. Right.

You keep getting in duels. Well, he got shot because he let the guy take the first shot. He goes, take the first shot. Guy shot him. Then he shot the guy and lived that way for the rest of his life. He had a gaping wound that would cause problems periodically. You take the first shot? That's what he said.

He's retarded. You got Andrew Jackson, who's 6'2". He was drunk. That just seems like a bad idea. He had to be drunk. George Washington, 6'4". Who was a tough guy? George Washington was 6'4"? Yes, he was. People weren't that big that time. I know. He was

a giant. How tall are you? 6'4". Jesus Christ. George Washington was as big as this motherfucker? George Washington could have beat Doug up. No, no, no. So is Lyndon Johnson. I got my money on Doug. George has wooden teeth. He's got a fucking goofy wig on. He pulled that wig off. He's all insecure about his hair. That long coat that's going to get caught up in his legs.

Yeah, you pull that wig off, he's not going to know what the fuck to do. He's going to search for his wig. You kick him in the dick. Next thing you know, you're pulling out his wooden teeth and beating the shit out of him. There it is. I got my money on Doug. But then there was Lyndon Johnson, who is also 6'4". But Teddy Roosevelt, who practiced, who boxed, wrestled, and practiced judo with the guy

who brought judo to the United States, the first judo guy, and was obsessed with all things wrestling and fighting. He was about 5'10 and very thick, but a very sickly kid, died of heart disease, had a weak heart, so I don't know. My thing is Gerald Ford played football and could have played for the Bears as a middle linebacker. That says a lot when you play in the NFL. So I might have to go with that.

We had a huge discussion about this for a good hour on the Brian Callen Show. And it was a good time. I got Lincoln. No, that's not what you're talking about. I'm sorry. So then he said, I said, what about Barack Obama? And he got quiet.

Dan's a comedian, really good guy. He got quiet. And he said, well, I can't really, you know, I'd rather leave that alone. I said, why? He said, well, I try not to, you try not to include any living presidents because it caused too much trouble. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, I went through sort of a thing about how, you know, Barack Obama's not that tough a president and it'd be easy to kick his ass.

And, you know, I was doing it tongue in cheek, you know, you'd probably kick him here and he's kind of skinny and you could, and he gets a call from the secret service because he posted it as a blog he posted as a blog from crack.com well he said the reason the only blog that's not up there anymore is that because he got called down to the federal building i believe i think that's what he said it's on my podcast and he had to go line by line with these agents on what he meant by what he was saying. And he was like, well, I said, you know, I said Dick Tornado instead of a penis cyclone because it's kind of funnier. He was trying to teach them humor. These guys were totally fucking humorless.

He got all nervous. He was like apologizing. They made him take it down. And it was a chapter that was omitted from the book, believe so that i was like we live in america how i mean now you have to be careful when you've threatened the president you will get called but guys guys come on come on man i mean and and he took they probably can't they probably can't well they said there's probably no way to go like yeah they probably knew probably knew, of course, he's joking. But there's a thing that you set in motion a certain set up. That's what happens because they said, we will subpoena everybody that made a comment on the blog.

Unbelievable. Like, kick his ass. And Dan said, well, it's a bunch of 14-year-olds. Have fun with that. And the main guy had called him first. He goes, look, I know you're kidding. I know you've got a sense of humor. You've got to go down and talk to these guys.

It's just the way it is, pal. Yeah, I had shotgun ammo in my bag one time going through the TSA line in Anchorage. And they're like, you got shotgun ammo in your bag? I'm like, hey. I said, I know. I didn't know, but me and my brother were ptarmigan hunting this morning. I kind of like. And they say, and everyone's like, of course that makes sense.

Of course we know that that's true. But now, because you did this, we now got to act a certain way and run through a whole set of things, and it's really annoying that you had that shit in your bag. Dumbass. Same thing happened to me when I was going up to Alaska last summer. I had three rounds, 36 rounds in a pair of gloves that I just threw in the bag at the last minute.

And, yeah, they took that real seriously. They get to sniffing around. Well, there's the, you know, live rounds in your bags. And I had no idea. That could be a problem. Yeah. But without the rifle or a gun to shoot them, I don't know what I was going to do. Hit them with a nail?

But you can't fly with a shotgun choke. What's a shotgun choke? That's the thing. A shotgun barrel on the end of the barrel, there's constriction or not. And so when you talk about, you heard the term full choke. Okay, a full choke is like tightly constricted. Anyways, now they make shotguns that have a threaded. Sure, yeah.

Now they make shotguns that have a threaded end. I can see it on your forehead. Oh, yeah, full choke. Not a partial choke because I always go for the full choke. So there's, like, improved cylinder, modified cylinder, full choke, skeet choke. So they make a threaded fitting. They make a threaded thing on the end, and you can put in variable chokes. Okay. That one in the middle has a variable choke. They make a threaded fitting on the end and you can put in variable chokes. That one in the middle has a variable choke.

Why do I have a boner right now? That's so weird. The one on the right has a variable choke. Oh, I see. So, yeah, fix. So anyways, you can't fly the choke. And I used to think that's ridiculous, but then I started realizing what if you and like 20 of your buddies all have some dinky little shit

in the gun part and you're all waiting in line to get on the plane that's right you're like well it's just a barrel well it's just a barrel and it's like i just got a trigger that's what that's what the national security they always talk about now with 3d printers that the threat of being able to print your own gun that's a big yeah that's a big they're yeah that's i was just talking about something about that yeah i got pulled out of line uh flying to washington dc. from Madison, or no, from Green Bay. I was going to, some friends lived in the D.C. area and I was going to help them with a patio. They said, hey, we'll pay for you to come out if you want to help us with this patio.

So I'll put that out there if you ever need any patio work, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, sure. And I was late getting to the plane and so I didn't have a, I just had both my bags. I was going to check one. And I had a mason's chisel and a stone hammer in there. I was like, you can't go on there with those things. I'm thinking to myself. A mason's chisel and a hammer.

And a stone hammer, yeah. And by the way, you're big enough to actually kill an entire plane with those two weapons. You know what's weird? They're very arbitrary about that. You can't bring a pool cue on, but you can bring a skateboard. And if I had to fight a guy and he had a pool cue and I had a skateboard, I would fuck him up with a skateboard. Skateboards are really hard to break. You'd be hard to land a shot with a pool cue on a guy who's got a skateboard by the trucks.

Well, pool cues break. Like defending. Pool cues break. They break pretty easy. I've seen guys break, get mad at a shot and whack their stick and snap even the butt. They can break the butt. Yeah, but he could just put some kind of rod inside there and make a really tough pool cue. You could do that.

You could do that, but I'm assuming they're going to actually. I understand where they're coming from. I mean, they'll let you take deer antlers on if you cover the tines. You could wreak havoc. I'd attach that to my head. I'd attach that to my head and just run and shoot ape shit through the fucking net. By the way, there was this story about this huge... He played in the NFL for a long time as a defensive end.

He's a giant man. Are you going to name drop? No, I don't know his name. But he got crazy on the plane. What? Because he's bipolar. He's not even going to. Oh, no.

Tried to pull the door off the plane mid-flight. Oh, Christ. So he's trying to pull the door off this giant. He's 270 pounds, all muscle, played in the NFL. And nobody knew what to do. He was having an episode. Finally, I think instead of attacking him because everybody would have died, the stewardess talked him down to sit down.

He ended up going to jail for it. But I think about how scary that would be with a giant trying to pull a door off a plane. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah, that's scary shit, man, because if you get a plane full of cowards, you're really fucked. If you get a plane full of cowards or people with asthma or. If you get a plane full of cowards or people with asthma or something, you've got a real situation

going on, man. Nothing probably emboldens a plane full of cowards quite like some dude trying to rip the door open. One fear overrides the other fear. Think how long it takes to open up a door. It doesn't take that long. It's actually really hard on a plane.

Yeah, because I imagine the vacuum. Yeah, that kind of stuff. It doesn't take that long. It's actually really hard on a plane. Yeah, because I imagine the vacuum and the... Yeah, that kind of stuff. You basically can't do it. But turning the... You can't, really? You basically can't do it in mid-flight.

Oh, but it's just the physical power involved? Yeah, you can't. Has anybody ever done it? No. I've never heard of it. You can blow a door off, but you can't, you know...

And also... This guy's great. Man, everything Brian Callen says just winds up getting validated. You can look it up. Unless Brian makes all these little things. He comes in with a

USB drive full of all these little documents he's made up. Wait, here's a really cool piece of trivia. Here's a crazy, I just found out, this is a crazy piece of trivia. If you shot a 30-odd six at a plane window, at the cockpit window, it would stop it. The window would stop it.

I believe that. I mean, I should say, because I imagine the stuff, because you could potentially hit something at 400 or 500 miles an hour. That's how thick it is. It actually would stop a 30-hour flight. What's really fucked is that they go down because of birds.

That's a real common thing. Sucking in the engines. Yeah, that dude landed in the Hudson. Do you know how they keep birds away from runways? Hunters. No. They hire people. They poison them and shoot them. No.

What do you mean, no, no, no? What you mean to say is, like, no, in addition to that. But in, well, for example. In addition to that. Don't say no. The fucking guy's right. Well, well. In addition to that.

If I may. In addition to that. If I may. Oh, please. In Afghanistan, for example, in Afghanistan, when, you know, in Kabul and in Kandahar, where they, when they, when they're always taken off, right? So how do they keep birds away? They had a lot of, do you know what they do?

Take one guess. Come on, think. I did better than taking guests. I just named a litany. But you're, but you're a liar. So here's the thing. No, you're right. But here's what of wild. I did better than taking guests. I just named a litany. But you're a liar. So here's the thing. No, you're right, but here's what they do. They get peregrine falcons.

They get two peregrine falcons, and they literally fly the peregrine falcons in a circle around the airport. And the birds don't want to get up. They stay the fuck away from, yeah, they stay away from the falcon, which was surprising to me. All of them see the peregrine falcon, they're like, I want to stay away from the from the from the falcon i which was surprising to me that all of them see the peregrine falcon they're like i want to stay away from that and all the birds stay down so then you got to put a transmitter on the falcon so no one sucks that news engine well i don't know but they the guy had it on his arm and that's how they did it so that's pretty surprising i didn't know that at the time european contact

we had x number of white-tailed deer living in this country and they were nearly decimated at a point in time now we have a hundred million deer far far far more white-tailed deer live here now than at any time in history doug will jump in at any point. When Doug was a kid, what was a big deal, Doug? It was a big deal to see a deer around our area. Wow. He would run home and tell his mom and dad. People would get in a car and drive out. I mean, you'd go out in the evening.

I mean, we still get out in the evening and drive around and look for deer, but you're really disappointed if you don't see any. But you went up north hunting. My grandfather, according to my dad, who never makes anything up, hunted deer, would go over to the Baraboo Hills on the edge of the Driftless area. And that was the only place there were white-tailed deer. And as a kid, I just don't remember seeing that many deer. My dad used to go up north deer hunting and they would bring deer back from up there. But then when I got to be 14 when i was in um you know in high school and started playing basketball and whatnot uh we couldn't go away for opening weekend we went north the first couple of years so you know we'd go up north and hunt like crazy to see one or two deer and and not get one and uh so then when i was 14

um we started hunting on the farm i'm like wow look at all these i got a deer right away um but when but you're absolutely right that that the management of the of the white tail deer in in wisconsin is a real success story even though you know newspaper articles and and whatnot to the contrary that and it's been such a well someone argued too much of a success because it wasn't to, like, for the last few years, you couldn't shoot a buck until you killed a doe. Right. We had a thing called earn a buck.

In fact, we still do after you shoot your first buck. Kind of got into that whole thing about how many tags can you get? And it's like, well, in our area, you can get as many, you can shoot as many deer as you have bullets for. But you're absolutely right. And, well, they're such an adaptable creature. My sister lives up in a city called Oshkosh, and they live kind of on the edge of town. Well, not really on that much of the edge of town, but there's a little quarry there

and an armory and whatnot. And they have wildlife problems there. Deer and turkeys both. and they have wildlife problems there uh deer and turkeys both um and they've had to do a whole thing where they they brought in uh they bring in snipers to shoot them because there were a bunch of bow hunters that said that they would do it well just let us come in and we'll do it yes like well why would we have the public do it when we can pay government officials well they weren't government officials this is private private yeah why would we have the public pay to be able to do it when we could just pay someone else to come in and do it real discreet and quiet? Well, that's what's going on right now in the Hamptons.

You know, the stories coming from the Hamptons. They have a huge deer problem in the Hamptons with all these, you know, multi-million dollar estates and giant houses up there. And they're going to hire snipers. Yeah, they're dicking around with trying to give the deer contraceptives. and they're going to hire snipers. Yeah, they're dicking around with trying to give the deer contraceptives. Hundreds of thousands of dollars they're going to spend trying to eradicate these deer with birth control and with snipers. Wow.

I had a landscape business in Door County, which is the thumb of Wisconsin. So it's a lot of folks from Chicago and Milwaukee and Madison who have places up there. And one person would want to raise hostas and all these exotic flowers and whatnot, and the next one would want to see deer. And deer would eat the flowers yeah exactly i mean you pull into places and the deer would be laying right in the beds my mother in connecticut she spent like literally like i don't know how long planting this beautiful garden i remember she had like flowers the the minute they bloomed man, literally it was just a decimation. The deer came in and just ate them all. My mother went to the store to go find a crossbow.

She said, I want to buy a crossbow. And the guy goes, for what? She goes, because I want to kill all the deer on my property. She had a garden. It wasn't a big, it wasn't like, it was a yard. And the guy goes, you can't kill a bunch of deer. It's not legal. She goes, I don't care. I'm going to kill the deer. And then he had to explain to her what kind of fine it would be. A little of a little more involved more involved in that but uh she literally was

gonna kill you know she never shot a crossbow but she was gonna she thought it'd be easy i had a client in door county a older woman that um liked the deer but she really liked all her her different gardens and whatnot as well and somewhere along the line she got this idea that if you buried wine bottles upside down sticking out of the ground in a perimeter around your place that the deer would hit those you know and then they wouldn't they wouldn't come in any further blow their mind and maybe like no way am i going in there glass so she was yeah so she was she was drinking a lot of wine to surround that place too but which i may have been a part of the sounds like an excuse yeah excuse for an alcohol but you'd go in hear what they got going on in this area where

we hunted in november is you know what's going on in the state of wisconsin a bunch of other states you have cwd that's chronic wasting disease chronic wasting disease is the deer and elk version of mad cow so it's with cow we say mad cow or like with jacob jacob yeah and then you have in sheep scrapie deer and elk they call it chronic wasting disease so how are they so far they haven't found and some people say like we wouldn't know yet but they haven't found where any human has contracted you know hasn't contracted mad cow from, well it's Jacob Kreuzfeld in the human hasn't contracted from deer and elk.

Hasn't happened yet. But a lot of states are taking measures to try to get a handle on this and they're taking where you can't move, some states you can't move deer bones from other states into the state, you can't move deer bones out of the state. One thing that could be driving the transmission of this is just having way too many deer another thing that drives transmission of

deer diseases bringing them into like an unnatural proximity is baiting deer so you go out put a bunch of corn down you get eight deer standing there nose to nose and nose all eating corn it's not they're not configured in a way that's really replicable in a natural setting. Like deer tend to graze a little bit further apart and they're not sharing, swapping spit quite so much. In Wisconsin, they got the CWD area where they're trying to cull knockback numbers. So we're on the northern edge of what they call the CWD management zone. And actually right before I came out here, I checked the map to see how close uh the they test deer and obviously they test deer for it um and it the the latest ones are about three miles south

of the farm so next year um everything's getting tested um you'll send the heads in to get tested well actually what they uh the friend of mine actually has a check station now and um and I didn't know that this year. But she was trained to take the lymph nodes, so you don't have to take the head and do all that kind of stuff. Got you. So it's a much simpler process. But the thing is, no one really knows what it means yet. Well, right.

And they have all these recommendations. And you guys remember when we were butchering, other than the front legs, everything was boned. And you stay away from the spine. That's where you get it, right? So if you eat the meat, if you get the meat, you won't get it. The prions concentrate in the brain, spinal fluid, spinal column. So even if it was a deer that had it, by not messing with the spine and whatnot. You'll be okay? That's the theory.

Because the way they were bumping it from animal to animal is, you know, it was like bone meal. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's how you're transmitting around. And one of the big arguments against pen, raisin, livestock to have, like, faux hunting facilities is that CWD jumped to our wild herds from captive animals. I think the ground zero was in Wisconsin or Minnesota.

It's in southern. The first time it jumped. Yeah, south of us. In Wisconsin. Yeah, on the south side of the Wisconsin River. And it was interesting because you had some information that I hadn't heard before about how it had been transferred and whatnot. But raising white-tailed deer as a domesticated animal has actually become fairly big.

One of the big things is antlers. Yeah, because you can grow bigger antlers if you've got them. And they've given them all this stuff and whatnot. And, you know, in Wisconsinisconsin that is uh regulated by the department of agriculture trade and consumer protection whereas wild deer and so those are domesticated deer and wild deer are the purview of department of natural resources and the two don't so the the the deer farmers want to stay in the Department of Agriculture, and the DNR would like to have a little more control over that.

Yeah, because the wildlife that's held in the public trust is at detriment from a lot of that deer farming. That's exactly, well, yeah. I'm actually amazed in the two times I've hunted how well, and maybe I'm wrong about this, but how well the government does in conservation efforts and in policing the whole hunt game.

Well, look what happened when we didn't, man. You got up in the 1920s and 1930s and we were not just running out, I mean, we were going to run out of a lot of game animals. I mean, it was on the horizon that we were going to lose many, many species of ducks. We were going to lose the wild turkey. We were going to lose deer, lose the elk, lose the big horn sheep. All to hunting.

On, on, on, like, yeah, a perfect storm of things. Unregulated market hunting being one of the, I'm not trying to downplay the rule, one of the principal factors. But it was going on in conjunction with a lot, you know, a lot of habitat destruction or things. But yeah,

just shooting it and selling it. Unregulated hunting. What animal is this? And then not even like, not regulating what kind of weapons you use. You could set charges packed with ball bearings up in trees

to blow roosting turkeys out of the trees. I mean, it was just like, it was a free-for-all and it was, you know, Daniel Boone,

man, he killed 108 or 116 bears in one year one time. Wow. Hunting on the big, hunting on the big sandy in Kentucky.

So, Wow. Unregulated market hunting caused a lot of damage. When it came to the 1920s and 1930s, that's when we got this idea where we were going to get aggressive and we didn't do it a second too soon. And we came up with certain things like we have hunting seasons, bag limits, a ban on the sale of wild game. So when you go into a restaurant, when you go into a wild game restaurant in the U.S., you're getting imported meat or you're getting farm,

where they're taking elk, taking deer, raising them on a farm, killing them, running just a livestock model on wild animals and selling it. And you're not getting like hunter-killed wild game unless they're importing it. But then even now, they used to import a lot of stuff from new zealand even now most that when you when you're getting red deer which is like most the most common venison sold in restaurants is red deer often from new zealand sometimes from scotland even the stuff from new zealand now it's just farmed well they used to sell some wild stuff but the but the industry's changed so much is Is there an animal that is still in danger of being extinct in this country as far

as like, grizzlies are not? No. There are many, many animals that are in danger of becoming extinct, but no game animals. No game animals. Game animals, I mean, most of them are expanding or stable and the state's under mandate. There's a lot of stuff that's little understood. I mean, there are

many frog species, all kinds of things that are in huge trouble. Bird species that are in big trouble. But right now with game animals, I take that back. Not in the danger of being extinct, but in danger of being in big trouble. Sage grouse, because of many, many factors, sage grouse are hurting right now. And some people are starting to eye it for um endangered species protection it could happen what about eagles like i mean they're not a game animal eagles are kicking out you mean bald eagles yeah they're the new crow man yeah that's that's a huge success story

they're the new crow that was something that was really a big deal to see when i was a kid bald eagle we have them coming through the farm all the time. Really? Oh, yeah. DDT, man. All they had to do was get DDT. What about golden eagles? Hold on a second. DDT. So DDT was killing eagles? Made their eggshells too thin. They crushed their own eggshells. So that was what they were using for pesticides? Just turn that shit around so fast.

Yep. Wow. Now, like wood ducks, what they realized, we were going to lose wood ducks. What they realized with wood ducks, what they realized, the wood ducks, we were going to lose wood ducks. What they realized, the wood ducks, old dead trees. Like wood ducks are a cavity nesting duck. It's kind of a funny idea, but this wood duck lands a damn tree, walks into a hole in the tree, and is a cavity nester. Various factors at play, we lost a lot of these big old cavity trees. People brought the wood duck back by just guys who like to hunt ducks,

going out and building these little things that look like a mailbox on a post. We had a couple of them up. Well, we weren't by those places. But then even in our forestry program on the farm, we leave wildlife trees. Oh, yeah, you mark them, man. You mark them with a big W. If it's got a hole in it, yeah, if it's got a cavity, one, it's not worth a shit anyways probably because you're going to cut into it

and it's going to be rotten wood. Two is wildlife habitat. But you make these it's not worth a shit anyways, probably, because you're going to cut into it and it's going to be rotten wood. Two, it's a wildlife habitat. But you make these fake ones by putting a mailbox on a pole, take some sheet tin and tack it on there so raccoons can't climb it. And all of a sudden, like overnight, boom, wood ducks are back. Now, I know that they have issues with pesticides, certain pesticides being a problem with bees. Are they doing anything about that? Well, like colony collapse disorder? Yeah, they've got real issues.

So, funny you bring that up um one of the things that i'm going to do when i get back to wisconsin is to um there is in the in the latest farm bill uh some funding for encouraging farmers to plant bee friendly forbs in their pastures. And again, right where Brian and I were hunting out in that open field, I planted about two-thirds of an acre of pollinator habitat. What does that mean? Like flowers? Yeah, so that there's flowers at different stages of the season. How much is two-thirds of an acre going to do?

I don't know. But since I'm putting so much of the farm back into conservation reserve program, which means we're planting it to grasses and forbs and whatnot, when I get back, I'm really going to look into this. Because the interesting thing is a lot of it, like alfalfa and clover, those are things that deer like too and turkeys like and other wildlife like. And then during the flowering time, of course, the bees are a part of it like alfalfa and clover and those are things that deer like too and turkeys like and you know other wildlife like and and then during the flowering time of course the bees are part of it but it's kind of cool in this most recent farm bill in the conservation measures it's i mean it's not it was like three million dollars for the entire driftless area or the midwest i'm sorry not just the driftless area but um you know when you start to parse that up into bags of seed that

people go into there i'll overseed my pasture with it or add that mix in with my CRP and what not. I'll do that without them paying me to do it. That's interesting. You know, what I've heard is that there's also some connection to genetically modified crops. Some crops have been genetically modified to make them more resistant to certain bugs and that this is what's fucking up bees. Is there truth in that? I think there's truth in that. GMOs certainly could have a part of it.

We were talking about our daughter. I met your daughter before. And my daughter, who's 17, who's taking a biotech class right now, that's one of the things that they've been talking about. And my hackles go up when you say GMOs. And interestingly, she kind of talked me down from it because she's, you know, on both sides of the, of the thing. I've, I honestly think that the, um, pesticides

probably have more to do with it than, than anything. I mean, we're using insecticides on everything, you know, and the idea that, you know, in our area, you saw it more, the crops are essentially two things, corn and soybeans. And so you've got these monocultures, and, you know, those are all GMOs. They're all Roundup Ready. That's the big thing. What does that mean, Roundup Ready? Roundup, the herbicide glyphosate, which is a non-selective herbicide,

means it'll kill everything theoretically. But not the crop. But it was regarded as having the toxicity of coffee. Yeah. Like if you went to drink the stuff, you know, but that's been what people have said for a long time. Glyphosate or Roundup has always been the friendly herbicide because it does its job on the plant, and it goes into the plant. The plant dries down and dies.

Doesn't it grow itself to death in some way or like expend something? Well, that's right. But the chemical then doesn't translocate in the soil. There's chemicals, you know, herbicides and whatnot. I was spraying one a couple of days ago that I'm real careful with it. I'm out in the woods spraying basil bark applications to kill undesirable trees. And, you know, you're careful with that stuff. You kill undesirable trees?

Yeah. What kind of trees are undesirable? In this case, red maple. Remember the woods where we walked where all it was just the big giant trees? Mm-hmm. Where it opened up and it was... Yeah. I'm trying to regenerate red and white oak in there.

Mm-hmm. And red and white oak are a sun-loving species. So that sun needs to hit the ground. Oaks don't grow real fast either. And their first two or three years, they spend all their energy sort of building a root system, and then after about their fifth year, they'll take off. But in between, all this stuff is growing over the top of them. The perennial stuff like burdocks and that kind of stuff don't seem to bother it too much because they're gone quite a bit.

But it's the shade of the other trees. So red maple is a faster growing tree. So they'll get up over the top, shade out the oaks. And if you don't control that, the red maple, not sugar maple, red maple will take over take over kill the oaks off and now you've got red maple so we're what's wrong with and then to get into the deer thing too though i mean the deer effect on red well yeah and the deer the deers the deer effect on um on red and white oak is they like white oak acorns in fact they prefer white oak acorns as do turkeys but they like to browse on red oak seedlings.

So the oaks just don't stand a chance. Part of the reason why we're trying to kill so many deer. You wanted to know why? Yeah. Why you love red oaks and don't like the maples? In the driftless area. It's the area where glaciers and mining has really flattened the area. Keep going, Doug.

In the driftless area, it's a pathway for migratory songbirds, first of all. And migratory songbirds come up the Mississippi River, and they're traveling long distances. The oaks are one of their favored nesting areas and that sort of thing. So oaks were a big part of our forest for quite a while because of things like fire and that sort of thing, which we don't have anymore. So what's happening is the percentage of oak on the landscape is a lot less. So when you have an opportunity or what we're encouraging landowners through this network of forest landowners that I work with, when you have an opportunity to regenerate oak you have a good spot to do it and not every spot where oak is growing now is necessarily a

good spot to regenerate oak but when you have a good spot to do that you should because it's disappearing from our landscape and it's affecting wildlife it's affecting all those sort of things but and also the migratory songbirds so it's really interesting how it's all kind of together it's fascinating the management aspect of that, that people have decided to take a concerted effort to make one plant grow and make another plant die and encourage you to reduce deer population because the deer are hammering the seedlings.

It's an advertent effort to correct an inadvertent wrong. I mean, so much of our stuff is, we live in disturbed ecosystems now. And like, and that, that disturbance brings about like a radically transformed, you know, biome that we live in. Right. Why do we have so many whitetail deer? Well, because we have all these, we have everything that they need.

They have crops, we have cover, we have water, we have all that. You know, you made the comment, I don't know if it was on a podcast or when we were just talking so they're like the deer here are so different than the mule deer they're like farm animals that you have to shoot yeah which is kind of you know that's kind of right yeah um yeah deer geese turkeys crows they really you know because of farming there they are and there are so there are so many of them so to my, it's sort of a bonus that we have that. But at the same time, you can't let it run. You can't let any of those species overrun things. So it's a balancing act.

And so on our 400-acre farm, and just a little over 200 acres of woods, I have like 16 different areas where we're doing different kinds of management based on what is there that 100 years ago you wouldn't have to had to have done that there we didn't have invasive species which is one of the huge issues that we have you know you get the clothes torn off you by that stuff called multiflora rose invasive species are a big problem. Encouraging the different kinds of trees and therefore encouraging different kinds of wildlife, it's all a part of it. Unfortunately, Brian was saying before that he thought that the government agencies are doing a great job. And I'll probably get skewered for this, but I think that is the case.

The Department of Natural Resources in the state of Wisconsin does a heck of a job. They're horrible at public relations, but they're really good. They are really good at counting and understanding numbers and, you know, what a carrying capacity. And it's in exact science. It's not our friend Pat, Steve and my friend Pat Durkin writes about this a lot. And one of the things he says, there are hunters out there who think it's like a bathtub. Like you can turn the water on to get more deer and then you shut it off and then you can pull the plug. And that's not really the case.

And you'll hear grumbling hunters talk about how the DNR is killing all the deer. Well, you know, honestly, I've never seen a DNR. What is DNR? Department of Natural Resources. Yeah, you know, honestly, I've never seen a DNR. What is DNR? Department of Natural Resources. Yeah, every state's got it. So you get, like, Department of Fish and Game, Department of Fish, Wildlife, and Parks. The government agency that's controlling hunting in each place.

Could you elaborate, though, when you were saying this? Because I want to know, how are they bad at public relations? When CWD started, when CWD... Chronic wasting disease. Chronic wasting disease was discovered in Wisconsin. It's only been in the last 12 years. Yeah. In the early 2000s.

One of the things that they came out with was we need to eradicate the disease. In order to do that, we have to kill all the deer in this area. Well, if my farm was in that area, I'm not going to be. I don't know if we need to. I mean, so there's a couple of sick deer. Do we need to kill all the deer? And then they kind of went into this sort of heavy handed government attitude of here's what we really need to do.

Um, whereas you, you probably realize this, that you were here, you weren't, we weren't really following government regulations on our farm. Look at that deer, sick deer. That's a deer with CWD? Yep. Damn. And that, by the way, by the way. By the way, Mr. By the way.

That came from farms, correct? Like that came from deer farms. That came from high-fest operation. Well, it crossed from livestock. It's a Eurasian livestock disease. Crossed to, got into some wild herds. I'm sorry, got into some domesticated deer herds.

Yeah, domesticated deer herds. But it was not originally on a commercial facility. It wasn't like a guy out there trying to sell faux hunts. It was a research facility and there were deer coming up and smelling noses with the deer inside this research facility. And that's what they think.

Correct me if I'm wrong. This is everywhere on the web for you guys doing the fact checking. Well, hold on a second. So there's a fence between the domesticated deer and the wild deer, and they touch each other somehow or another? Yeah. Through the fence. I really don't have knowledge of that because I've asked a lot of questions about,

how did this start in Wisconsin? And there's a lot of people don't seem to have the answer and you don't get that answer from the government guys and then you talk to the private guys but if you go into southwest wisconsin there's an area um um a county there and the town that i'm thinking of is uh hollandale and if you look at a cwd map you just it just, it just, it was just massive. So there was a, you know, sort of ground zero. Um,

and I don't have any knowledge. Yeah. And how many states is it in now though? Well, it's in Illinois now too, but this, and they expected this came from out west. Yeah.

Is that, I mean, the thought really well, because it had been in, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. So that's crazy.

So we're, our farm is up where the CWD, there's some other states have where the CWD. That's just Wisconsin, Illinois. There's some other states that have had some CWD. Our farm is where the top part of the D is on CWD behind the thing in there, right in there, yeah. So that's where it – so that's in 2005. And if you were to find a more recent map, DNR has those out there, it's just spreading and it's being spread. has those out there. It's just spreading and it's being spread.

This makes sense to me that there are so many deer in some areas that they're, especially young bucks, are getting pushed out because Big Daddy doesn't want them around. So they get pushed out and they're the ones who are, there you go. That's a scary disease, man. But that's the thing is we don't know if it is or not. Because there are all manner of wildlife diseases, some imported, some that have always been here, that periodically come through and wipe out 70%, 80%, 90%. You get blue tongue, tularemia and rabbits, all kinds of things. Now and then, you get a bunch of animals.

The animals get sick. A ton of them die. You have some disease-tolerant individuals, and it comes back. One thing we try to do when I say we, like I work for the government. One thing that our wildlife model generally tries to do is take out some of the peaks and valleys. I'm impatient with people who get too easily overly critical with state fish and game agencies, which I think in the United States of America do a pretty phenomenal job considering. And when Doug talked about bad public relations, you make some management decisions,

and the way guys find out about the management decisions, they open up the rule books. There's no explanation of why. It's just like, it might be, you know what, dude? You can't kill, you know, you used to be able to kill a doe. Now you can't kill a doe in this county. Everybody gets really mad. And they could go down and be like, why is that? And there'd be some really well thought scientifically based decision about why was a bad idea for this year to do it.

But people just see it and they go like, oh, it's the, it's the right wing. It's the left wing. It's the cuckoos, you know? Yeah. It's the insurance. A lot of times they don't really even bother to really put forth like why we're making these decisions we're making and insurance companies like that insurance triple a i shouldn't point out one individually insurers are generally a force for wanting less deer agricultural interests i'm generalizing agricultural interests are

generally a force for wanting less deer guys that want to go out and hunt are generally a force want more deer. But I heard that the biggest source of pollution, I may be wrong, is not even cars or anything. It's agricultural runoff. Like, that's the big threat. Hog farms are bad. Right? Am I right about that?

Fertilizer, phosphorus in the fertilizer going into the water source, you know, those sort of things. That's a huge issue. Nitrates in the water, yeah. And that's a huge issue. Nitrates in the water. Yeah. And that's a huge concern. Hey, tell that story about that trout stream and that guy that had all that frozen nerve laying out. Can you tell that story? Well, so south of us, there's a class one trout stream.

And a guy down there. He's like titties trout fishing. Yeah. Well, for southwest Wisconsin anyway. What does that mean? Good titties trout fishing. Yeah. Well, for Southwest Wisconsin anyway. What does that mean? Good, good trout fishing. Oh, titties. It said Michigani for titties.

That's an expression? That's hilarious. Titties. Like cherry? Titties trout fishing. Like that car is cherry? Okay. That stream is titties.

Well, I've heard that. I've heard cherry. Yeah, but if it's chock full of fish, if your car was was chuck full of fish, you'd be like, that car is tits. They say titties in Michigan, apparently, in Wisconsin. That's just tits. Nobody says titties. Steve Rinaldo says titties. That's my wife's nickname, man.

I'll pull it up. I got her saved like that on my phone. Oh, man. Nothing wrong with that. So what were we talking about? Tell them the story about the about like a just a like a like a occurrence you know okay so what happened was uh their their uh storage manure storage uh regulations and whatnot and and times when you're supposed to spread manure and times when you're

not and then you've got these huge mega farms like you know again when i was getting you saw that barn and that milk house we milked 40 cows in Well, 40 cows in a barn during the wintertime, you know, once a day you'd go out with a load of manure and spread it on the fields. And it wasn't that big of a deal. Now you're talking about thousands of cows in a barn, liquid manure going to these huge storage facilities. And there's semis, you know, driving this stuff around. Well, in this instance, this was was sort of a medium-sized farm, about 500 milk cows. So the guy was doing things pretty much right.

Spread manure, but he spread it on frozen snow and ice and whatnot with a buffer strip back from the trout stream, but it rained and melted into the trout stream it went and wiped them out all those fish went tits up such as it was so it was still tits it was still titty so it was tits up so tits up is a lot different than just tits i'm learning so much yeah right so so you know one would argue well well, we should be regulating that. Well, right. But then there's the concern that, well, we're regulating things to death.

And this sort of goes back to the deer hunting thing. You know, in the 80s and 90s, the deer population just peaked in Wisconsin. It was just huge. I mean, you thought you saw a lot of deer opening day. And by the way, you didn't. By the way? By the way. By the the way you didn't by the way by the way so the 90s well i mean yeah i mean there were days when i would see 75 deer opening day well they would come running through a group would come running through yeah um and that's

not good though right no it's not good that's the point somewhere in between is is there's a balance but guys get pretty used to that guys get get used to it. That's exactly right. I go out and sit and, well, I want a seed here when I go out. I might want to shoot one every time. Well, you know, then they call it shooting and killing, not hunting, you know? You know what's interesting? During this podcast, I put up a picture on Instagram of that pig that I shot, and I have had a fucking tidal wave of people mad at me.

Is that right? Shooting that pig? Not cool, man. Not cool, dude. I don't know how many of them are... Because you shot a non-native animal that these guys have been eating their entire

freaking life in bacon form and had the audacity to actually come face-to-face with the animal. Yeah, I mean, just the fucking comments on Instagram. It's quite hilarious. I see you tapping way over there. Self-righteous shitheads. Oh, come on.

It's really amazing. You need a filter thing where you can filter out everyone who's not vegan. And then at least go like, okay, the vegans, they have some moral, some consistency. I don't even think it's that. I mean, it's just like people just don't want to see a dead animal. They don't want to see it. I mean, it's this weird disconnect that we have that we talked about on your show, this weird disconnect that people have about their food.

And they feel, even if they're meat eaters and even if they're wearing leather shoes, they feel like they can take the moral high ground and say there's something wrong with you posing, especially because apparently people don't like the fact that I'm smiling. Yeah but aren't you glad because you just got all kinds of pork? Yeah I'm happy. I got 200 pounds of pork and I shot it at 515. We have 15 minutes left in the day. It was the last chance at romance. Yeah no you should you should apologize for being happy about having a windfall of meat. Looks like a good shot. It was a great shot. I'm sorry. That pig never knew good shot, too. It was a great shot.

I'm sorry. That pig never knew what was going on. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I shot a pig perfectly 160 yards. And didn't cry. I'm sorry I'm coming over to eat some of that pig. Come on. I bought a smoker, man.

I bought a beautiful Weston smoker. I'm brining the pig as we speak. I'm brining a ham. Nice. Why don't we farm venison the way we farm cows? Have you been paying attention to the conversation? I know we do. It has to do with him.

Come on, Callan. I know we do, but we don't do it a lot is what I'm saying. I'm surprised that we don't. It's such good meat. Why don't we do it as much as we do with cows? Because there's a certain problem with one thing. There's a problem with disease transmission. We've been talking about.

Yeah. And there's a thing where there's an aesthetic issue. And there is. I mean, there's a demand for it. The demand's met. There's arguments to be made for it. One of the arguments against it is we have, like, an obligation to protect native wildlife. Right. So keep it native and there's and there's a heritage of having these animals as wild animals and some people feel myself included is some people

feel is that there's a that these and there's a sacredness of these animals as wild creatures you know and we try to like foster their well-being and from a practical standpoint you know i don't know how much you guys noticed but there's some fences around the the barnyard and whatnot in our place they're four-strand barbed wire fences and they're kind of they're mediocre fences is what i would put them the cattle won't bother them they just walk over as long as cattle got Hay in the bin and whatnot They just kind of walk over You might get the occasional one

Who's like I think I want to get out today Yeah like the one that destroyed Almost ended your marriage Because they ate your wife's garden Yeah well I left the gate open So it wasn't really that But if that almost ended your marriage

How fucking shaky is that ground You're standing on I was being a little I was being a little melodramatic It was Yeah well It was a beautiful garden It little melodramatic. It was, yeah, well. It was a beautiful garden. It was a hanging garden.

It was a hanging garden. I should say something about my wonderful wife. Most people, your wife is very cool. Yeah, she was very understanding of the whole thing after her. You have to understand that she put so much time and energy and love into that garden. You want to see my wife smile? Call her name when she's in her garden, and her head will come up and she'll smile.

Gardening is fucking fun, man. It's good for you, man. Well, it's much like hunting in a way. There's a primal sort of connection that we have to gardening. We grow our own food at my house. We grow tomatoes. We have cucumbers. Broccoli.

Broccoli, and it's delicious. It's so good. We cook it and eat it, and it's just something really satisfying about growing something and cooking it. And putting your hands in the dirt. And it's equally satisfying hunting your own food. Yeah. You know, I know a lot of people don't like that because the hunting part because they connect it to cruelty.

But it's a primal thing. It's a primal thing. Oh, I should point out that even though a lot of people have been angry at me, way more people are supporting me. I should say that. A lot of people like to focus on the the negative way more positive comments I've that picture went up ten minutes ago is three thousand nine hundred and fifty likes already yeah that's good yeah so it's more positive than negative but there's just a lot of hypocritical bullshit out there and you got to take the hit in order to sort of get that

subject out there that's one of the things hit in order to sort of get that subject out there that's one of the things about it that i i i find uh now it's up to 4 000 as we speak one of the things that i i think is important is to take that hit is to get that conversation going and i think a lot of people that said the negative things and they it's a knee-jerk thing it's because we've been shielded from where food comes from. We've been shielded from how do you get meat? Well, you don't get meat from a seed, okay? You get meat from an animal, and it has to die in order for you to eat it. And the seat you're sitting in, and your shoes you're wearing.

No shit, right? I got these motherfuckers at Office Depot. How many cows had to die for this? Nobody has a problem with me wearing a murdered animal skin on my podcast every day. And if you had a photo of you smiling with your new leather couch, no would give a shit man right that's so true right yeah no one's smiling from your couch you're like you're on cow skin or even if you have a steak from the supermarket you're smiling i'm cooking i've put up a hundred pictures of me cooking on the grill with a big smile on my face no one cares you have one picture of the actual intact animal.

And you can see its face. It's like I have this joke about how you can kill an animal, but you can't fuck it. But what you can do is kill it and cut it into a bite-sized portion, a meal-sized portion, and jerk off with it. You can use that and wrap it around your dick and jerk off. And no one can really say anything because we have this weird disconnect. Yeah, you would not go to jail for that, right?

You can't go to jail for jerking off with a chicken cutlet, but if they caught you in the middle of fucking a chicken, most likely a cop's going to fucking take you downtown. They're going to have a talk, at least with you. At the very least, they're going to go, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, I'm tired of my hands. Yeah. I want to call my friend right now who's a cop in San Francisco who caught a dude fucking a chicken.

Look at this picture. Here's another thing that Steve Rinell and I had a conversation about the other day about people who complain about hunting. But every fucking restaurant except for a tiny percentage serves meat. Like you're dealing with murder houses all over the country. I mean essentially animal murder houses. Every fucking Burger King. Every McDonald's. Every other, almost every regular restaurant, Coco's, fucking Red Barn, whatever it is that you're serving food at. Those are murdered animals.

But we have this weird disconnect. This is a picture of me with duck in the window. No one complained. No one complained. Why? Because I didn't kill those ducks. That was you and I when we were in Toronto. Ooh, yummy. We're going to eat a Chinese food.

No one gives a shit. Oh, that's great. I love the Anthony Bourdain show. He goes and eats at a bunch of places. He eats murder! That's what he's eating. He's eating murder everywhere. But we are shielded because we're a bunch of fucking babies. We're shielded from that. Well, there's certainly a hypocrisy to it.

An old friend of mine, uh, was eating veal one or ordered veal one night. And, and I'm not a big fan of veal enough because I've been a part of raising them. I, we had a neighbor who used to raise, raise veal. And honestly, it was, to me, it was inhumane. And anyway, uh, I said to this friend of mine, geez, you know, you know about how veal is raised and how it's handled and everything. And he took a cut out of it, put it in his mouth, said this one's already dead. So. Tell these guys about that time you did that custom slaughter for that person, gave him a picture of the thing oh so um uh some some years ago uh we uh i i gave some relatives uh half of a

beef for a present and uh so i delivered some of the meat already and and we were bringing the rest of it and they were gonna have this big meal well they had a just with beautiful steaks and roast them they made several things wonderful cooks and they invited going to have this big meal. Well, they had a just beautiful steaks and roast them. They made several things, wonderful cooks. And they invited the neighbors over and here's, they bring their couple of daughters along. And on the farm, we had a pen that we always raised. This is when we had a lot of cattle around. We always, where we always raised the one that was going to be slaughtered because in those days we weren't doing the grass-fed thing. We were giving them corn and whatnot. And the cattle all had the same name. It was dinner.

And so I had taken a Polaroid picture of this steer before I had it butchered and wrote on the bottom of it, dinner. And so in presenting the meat at that dinner that night, and these neighbors were there with a couple of young girls. One was maybe 10 and the other one 12. You know, we're about to begin eating and I make the presentation and I hand them a picture of dinner. And so the girl, and so they, you know, they didn't think anything of it, just passed it around the table and one girl would need it. And last I heard she was still a vegetarian. She just couldn't do that connection or, you know, didn't, couldn't believe that that's what you're doing. On the other hand, my, I wanted to say something about

this whole thing with people eating meat and not, you know, being a part of it and whatnot. So I live in Madison, Wisconsin, which is a, you know, very liberal town. And the east side of Madison is particularly, but there's a food co-op over there that our friend Carl Malcolm did a learn to hunt program through. And it was wildly successful. And so in Madison where I know an awful lot of people and most of them eat meat, very few of them hunt. But none of – I can't think of anyone who has a problem with me doing it. In fact, they'll ask about it and whatnot. So even the vegetarians and vegans that I know are pretty, you know, they're pretty okay with it. My, my comment

is always, I don't have any objection to what you're doing. And I read, read Paulin's article from the New Yorker that he posted the other day. And it was just a wonderful, it was a long read, but... About the intelligence of plants. The intelligence of plants and how they adapt. And so, wait a minute, you know. Yeah, there's going to be some starving vegans, man. Just because they don't have a brain

doesn't mean they don't have a certain kind of intelligence. Not only that, it's been proven that plants actually can make calculations. Plants are not as simple as a rock. We like to think that in eating a plant, you're not eating anything that's alive, but you are. You have

to eat life. Life consumes life. We just have this ability to differentiate between life of an animal that we believe has emotions or we think has feelings and plants. They can get roots to grow toward the sound, the sound of running water. Yeah. Wow.

They'll steer in that direction. There's a type of intelligence in plants that we don't understand. I feel bad for those sons of bitches. A friend of mine read that article. He goes, man, I just never thought of how stressful it must be when I fire up my lawnmower. All those little blades of grass are just freaking out. Well, when you take mushrooms, it's one of the things you experience is this weird connection with that fungus. And, you know, obviously a fungus is not quite the same as a plant.

In fact, funguses are actually more closely related to animals than they are to plants. But there's some weird thing that's going on while you're eating a mushroom. And part of, you know, the psychedelic lore, what people believe, is that you're communicating with this plant by eating it. They also believe that about ayahuasca. Ayahuasca, the combinatory plant beverage that everybody goes down to Peru and Brazil to take and have these visionary experiences. They believe that you're experiencing some sort of intelligent connection to the spirit world through this vehicle, this plant vehicle.

Plants aren't as simple as, you know, everybody likes to think that, oh, you eat broccoli. It's so karma-free. You know, there might be the only way to eat karma-free is to eat shit. All right? If you want to go around eating shit, that might be karma-free. Yeah, but that's full of organisms. You would switch to eating. The next step is you would switch to eating non-terminal

productions from plants, meaning you'd eat apples. But you wouldn't eat root vegetables. No, but the Jains, like those fierce yogas, like those sects, they will never eat onions or potatoes and things because that's the root. The life source. That's the life source. So what they do is they eat everything that grows above the ground. So you are allowed to eat anything that will regenerate

So you can leave leave. That's good. I had an aunt who was fucking crazy She's fuck well. She's not my aunt anymore. They got divorced. She's fucking crazy, and she's a fruitarian Oh, yeah, she probably has no blood She was so but she was one of those really fucking annoying people that you couldn't have a ham sandwich around her. She would just start talking shit about, do you know how they treat those animals? Do you know? You have to murder animals? Oh, fucking Christ.

It was just this craziness. But the bottom line is what people don't want to take into account, what they want to say is, hey, you shouldn't kill an animal and eat it. Okay, should we ever kill animals? No. Okay, you should never kill animals. What eat it Okay, should we ever kill animals? No Okay, you should never kill animals What are we going to do with all these animals? What about the animals that kill animals? It's not just that

Are we going to control the population? What are we going to do about predators? Let nature control them Do you know how nature controls populations? They fucking eat them while they're alive Coyotes, there's a video that I found online It's a crazy video, maybe you can find it but these two deer get locked up they were battling and they were gnashing horns together and they got locked up and while they're locked up a lot

of times they can't get unlocked because the horns are organic they flex the antlers are organic they flex and move and if you hit it the right way they can get connected the point where it's really difficult to get untangled so while these two deer were going at it and they got locked up, coyotes ate one of them alive. Wow. So one deer is like gutted and its legs are half missing and the other deer is like connected to them, fucking freaked out. And these hunters came along and disconnected these two.

That's what you're going to get if you don't get hunters. It's not just that. That's not bad though. It's not bad to people because people aren't involved in that. But I'm saying, I'm not like, I don't go like, oh, we need to get rid of predators because they're so mean to animals. I feel like it's a treat to watch it.

There's the two deer. I don't know if that's the very specific video. But there are situations also, like in certain indigenous cultures, where you can't grow anything. Tell Eskimos to be vegetarians. You're basically, you have to eat the animals. In parts of the Middle East where you're not growing anything on the topography of the land, you have to live off animals. You have to live off the milkier

camel. In the Bantu Belt in Africa, you have to basically live off, it's very hard to grow stuff there. You basically have to live off of game meat. Try living off of, try growing something in the Congo. There it is. That's the video. This poor deer is connected to this other deer that's been just eaten alive and the hunters found the coyote eating it. The hunters found

the coyote eating the one deer and this deer's like, motherfucker, let me go. And he can't get go. He can't let go. And the other deer is just like half of his body is missing so they had to hold on to him and look where they are farm country it's doug's place yeah it's doug's house coyotes guy with his hands in his pockets going hey what's going on dude if i lived in your house man that that whole area you know we've talked about uh me buying land in your area and i'm still really interested in that because there's something so

fucking cool about that area the driftless area because there's something so fucking cool about that area, the Driftless area, and there's something so fucking cool about just your house. Go out of your house in the morning, go for a walk, pitch up a tent, and fucking hang out, wait for someone to come by. I mean, it's really an amazing spot. Well, thanks.

I feel really lucky to be the one who gets to take care of it. Look at that. There's the Driftless area. For this generation. Look how beautiful that place is. That's what it looks like in the summer, son. You know, I feel really lucky to be the one who gets to take care of it. Look at that. There's a driftless area. For this generation. Look how beautiful that place is. That's the drift. That's like New Zealand. That's what it looks like in the summer sun.

Seriously? Yeah. We keep saying Doug's place, but Doug's. Oh, thank you, Steve. Doug's, yeah. I want to point out, it's definitely Doug's family's place. And Doug's, how long? It's been in my family 112 years.

Wow. 112. He had a relative lose a son of a bitch And the next generation went back I told you that in confidence What happened was During the depression My great grandfather

So when I say it's been in my family 112 years There was a couple of months there There was a blip A little hiccup So we don't qualify to be a century farmer or something. But my great-grandfather had a railroad that went from Casanova to Laval, which is seven miles away. And the Depression came, and then there was a flood and wiped out all the bridges.

And then he had this one. I can tell my dad would be okay with this. So one of his uncles, I guess, always had these harebrained ideas that he could talk his father into financing him on. So he mortgaged our farm. So our farm is not, it's been in the family that long, but it's not the original family farm. Over by where we were duck hunting, I pointed that out. That's where the homestead was. Anyway.

And every guy in his area is Doug's. Doug's got cousins he never even met. They're like down the road. They probably pop out of the woodwork when November rolls around. How you doing cousin? Hey, hey. We're family. I think folks around Casanova would say, well some people would

say that I wouldn't fucking dream. There's a dude that ran that hunter. There's a dude kneeling next to me that ran that hunter recruitment program out of that Whole Foods place or something like that. It was a co-op, yeah. And Carl's just one of those guys, you know, he's just a wonderful advocate for the outdoors. And, yeah, that was our first time, I guess, the first hunt that we did together because Durkin was there. So there was no – that was the second time he hunted on my farm.

Yeah. This was the fourth time. Anyway, what was I talking about? Hunting. No, your old man, your great-grandpa was running railroads. So anyway, it came to a point where, well, we've got to have, something's got to give. So he gave the farm, let the farm go back to Northwestern Mutual Life is what my dad said. And my grandfather had, interestingly, it didn't make sense for him to buy it from his father. He bought it from the insurance company who had the paper on it.

So there was like a few-month period of time where it was in no man's land, but no one else has owned the place for 112 years. That's the long story. It's an amazing farm, man. It's an amazing spot. It's a beautiful, beautiful spot. Well, there have been people taking care of it for a long time. I give my father an awful lot of credit for his vision know, his vision on the whole thing.

And my grandfather was a really interesting guy too. And, you know, I didn't know my great-grandfather, obviously, but yeah, I mean, it's just my turn right now. And I happen to have four brothers and sisters who are very willing to sort of let me be in charge. And we're all partners in the thing. My folks are still heavily involved. Or as they always say, we control the purse strings like they're the House of Representatives or something. I wish you had a picture of the standard that we could put up on the thing there, man. Hmm.

Yeah, I don't know where you can find one of those. The standard? Doug killed it. Yeah, Doug killed't know where you can find one of those. The Standard? Doug killed a giant. Well, you have pictures of that on your staff. Doug killed a giant buck that became known as the Standard.

It's a really funny story. I feel like this is like Marionette who keeps going, tell him, Doug. Tell him about this, Doug. Tell him about that, Doug. Why don't you tell him, Steve. Tell him about this, Doug. Tell him about that, Doug. Why don't you tell him, Steve? The Standard is a funny story. Without a picture. A lot of people don't even watch it anyways.

They're listening. Tell the story about it. Fair enough. Tell that story about The Standard. What's so funny about it? Joe, are you curious about hearing the story? Yeah, absolutely. What I like about The Standard story is...

How I went up there with the tractor and set the whole thing up? No, no, no. The part I like... This is never going to work. story is um how i went up there with the tractor and set the whole thing up no no no the part i like this is never gonna work because we're the part i like is when you when you took it down to the oh oh yeah yeah okay took it down to the guy so so so here's what happened like two weeks before uh this early it was an early gun season it was actually during bow season at that time it was very controversial but you could it was urnbuck so this is like the end of October. So the rut is just kicking off. And my nephew shot a doe the night before and had never gutted a deer. And in fact, he shot one earlier that day. And I said,

well, go ahead, Sam, you know, gut it out. He said, well, I didn't get my, I don't know how to do it. And I said, well, if I got that deer, I'm going to tag it so that I could have the buck tag. Two weeks before this day, my wife and I were driving down through the farm on that road that comes down through there. And this just enormous buck gets up out of this brush and goes just lumbering into the woods. And my wife, who doesn't get excited about deer, is like, oh, my God, look at the size of it. She got excited. So later that day, I went up with the tractor and a brush hog, you know, nothing going on here. So later that day, I went up with the tractor and a brush hog, you know, nothing going on here.

I'm just driving through, cutting the trails on the farm and left the tractor idling, jumped down off of the tractor, grabbed it. I had a tree stand along, strapped it to a tree, got back in the tractor while it was, you know, as I said, let it run the whole time and then drove out of there. Two weeks later, I had this buck tag and shoot the deer. And they had this buck tag and shoot the deer. Unfortunately, it's not one where I can tell a long story about why I can make any story long, apparently. But a long story about hunting this deer and all that. It showed up 10 minutes after I got in the stand. Boom, shot it. Dead.

And that's the standard. And this thing is just enormous. That's the one on your wall? Yeah. And it was just a huge deer besides. How much did it weigh, do you think the one on your wall. Yeah. That, that real, and it was just a huge deer besides. How much did it weigh? Let me think. I don't know. I go 265 or, or something like that.

Maybe 270. And I'm still, it's like a, you know, it had to be as big as a deer. You get into like how many inches of antler. Right. So it was a hundred, it was almost a 200 inch deer in the antler, but it was an enormous body deer besides. So never shot anything like that before. almost a 200 inch deer in the antler, but it was an enormous body deer besides. So never shot anything like that before. So I call this taxidermist and said, so

I want to bring this deer in. And he said, well, how big is it? And I said, well, I have size 13 shoes and I can put both my shoes between the antlers. Oh, well, you didn't want to get that in here real soon. And you know, so the skin doesn't, the hide doesn't slip and all this stuff. So my dad's got this little Chevy F-10 pickup. We dropped the thing in the back. So it looks like an elk in the back of this little tiny pickup. And we drive it to the taxidermist.

And by the time we get to the taxidermist stuff, there are two or three vehicles behind us because they want to see where it's going. We pull into the place and I walk up and there's this taxidermist shop where they also register deer. You guys have the experience of places where they register deer it's a madhouse and uh so we pull in there and i walk up to the guy and said oh by the way i'm the guy who who called and you know got the buck with it he said oh can i see it and they've got trucks are backed in there and they're unloading deer and skinning them out and doing all this stuff and my little dad's little s10 is sitting down at the bottom of the hill, and he walks down there and he goes,

all right, everybody, get all these vehicles out of the way. We're backing this one up in here right now. So we back it up there and they get it out of the thing, out of the back, and they do a quick skin of it until they get it to the head. And he's got a guy who all he does is surgically remove, do the cape and whatnot. We go in there and guys start chucking $5 bills into a, or $10 bills into a hat and start writing numbers down.

So they're guessing as to how many inches of horn there is. So every big deer that comes in, that's what they were doing. But it was just the whole scene was. How many inches was it? It was 192. Wow. That's a big. The one that you got was like 12

18 24 what is that right there that mule deer how big is that oh shit 110 that's a big fucking animal you had then but it is yeah it's just like something that happens kind of magically when they get up into that yeah i. I mean, it's an amazing look. Genetics, food, age. There's a big one right there. That's a mule deer, though, isn't it? That's a mule deer, too. That's not even.

That's a big mule deer. That's not big? Type in 200-inch whitetail. Well, I've seen some of them that have, it looks like they have trees growing out of their heads. Yeah, type in 200-inch whitetail and you'll probably hit like 200-inch whitetails. Now, Alberta is the place where I came here and has the big ones. They got big body deer, and for a long time, they were the reigning. There was a place to go if you wanted to shoot a huge, wracked, I mean, just besides body.

You get the body thing we talked about, that Bergman's principle about why animals in the north are big. What the fuck? That's crazy. That doesn't even look weird. That looks like fake. That's big. That's big.

That's insane. It's got trees. It's very elk-like. For a while, Alberta was a place to go if you wanted to kill it. They still got plenty of huge deer, but then all this stuff started happening in Illinois, Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa.

They're just killing freaking tankers now. For a while, Texas was the man. Look at that deer. That's ridiculous. Food plots, soybeans. For a while, Alberta was the man and Texas was the man. Look at that deer. There you go. That's ridiculous. Food plots, right? Soybeans. Yeah, so for a while, like, Alberta was the man and Texas was the man. Right now, the Midwest is just cranking huge. If big, huge antlered whitetails are your thing and you want to shoot one.

Let me ask you this. You want to shoot one in the wild and not, like, shooting one that some guy reared off his freaking stud animal. Well, I watched this one show where it was about a deer farm, and they were showing all these deer that they had genetically raised in these deer farms, and it's ridiculous. I mean, they have trees growing out of their head, and they're only two years old. They're a two-year-old deer, and they've got fucking these weird,

crazy antlers. You can't trust whitetails. If I walk into a dude's house and I walk into a guy's house, he's like, check out that freaking whitetail. I'm like, you know, I can't even start even kind of pretending to be impressed until I knew the back story. As far as I know, you shot it behind a fence. You walk into a guy's place, he's got a big tank or like bighorn,

he's probably got something. If he's got a big tank or mule deer, there's a very good chance he's really got something. A big tank or elk, I'm like, I don't know. I'd have to know what was going on. So elk, you were saying this before the podcast. There are elk that are behind fences. Oh, shit. Yeah, tons of them, man.

Where? Tons of them. Lots of them. I mean, there's more states that do it. No, I should say there's more that do it than don't. But I'll rattle off a bunch to do. Texas. I know Pennsylvania's got a bunch of high fence places.

Missouri's got high fence places. Idaho has high fence places for elk. There's something about an elk in a high fence that kind of offends me. Yeah, you give the dude $3,000, $4,000. I mean, they'll drive you out, and you pick the one you want out. I've seen ads where they say, like, it'd be like, someone needs to hunt this elk now, $3,000. It'll be a picture of the elk standing there.

There's something about an elk that's a mystical, sort of a mystical, majestic creature. I hate to see them. I hate to see them. I'd argue the same thing about a whitetail deer. I just can't imagine going behind, you know, going into a fence. Like one of those places in Texas? Well, I mean, they have them in Wisconsin, too. There's a place called, well, I don't want to start naming places.

Well, I have a buddy who went to a place in Texas that's 10,000 acres. Is that okay? I mean, at what point does it become okay? Yeah, I know you get into a weird, you get into a thing where it's become, I mean, there's a big thing. You see hunts advertised on a 300-acre chunk of ground that has no fence on it. I'm sorry, no tree on it. Right.

And you get into these things where someone might be doing this amazing wildlife management and doing a really good management job and for whatever reason, it could be any number of issues, they, for their own management purposes, fence a gigantic track landing and you get into, so is that legit or not?

And it's kind of like, who's that guy that said I only know porn when I see it? I know, but there's something about porn. I can't define porn, but show me a picture and I'll tell you if it's kind of like, who's that guy that said, I only know, I know porn when I see it. I know, but there's something about. It's like, I can't define porn, but show me a picture, I'll tell you if it's porn or not. That was the Supreme Court justice who said, I don't know how to define it, but I know when I see it. So it's. It's kind of like obscenity rules. But what I'm saying is that what if you're, there's something about being out in the middle of nowhere, like the Missouri breaks, that is, that feels more challenging in a way.

Yeah, it's a luxury though, too, because a lot of people don't have you know people like when i was growing up man it was we hunted the farthest we'd hunt from our house we typically hunted between two and eight miles from our house we were going on a big ass trip a big ass trip to drive 40 miles up and hunt this place called peacock in uh in lake county i didn't grow up thinking mean, we grew up hunting what we had around us, man. You know, now I lose sight of it now because I have such a, you know, I have such a, like I kind of fell into such a fantastic occupation where now I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, go here and go there for all these wild hunts. And, like, you know, the real way to hunt is this and that and Alaska and mountains.

You're talking about alpine hunting. That's what I like. Yeah. When you're up in the mountains and you're talking about alpine hunting. That's what I like. Yeah. When you're up in the mountains and you're having to really literally bring everything with you going up and down a mountain, that feels a lot more challenging. Yeah. You get into a ton of physical challenges and all that, but it is a luxury. And most people, I mean, more hours are logged deer hunting than any other kind of logged

hunting, white-tailed deer than and your kind of thing. The number one killed thing is what doves are. Doves, I think. That's a real issue with people, man. The doves, they go crazy. It's the symbol of peace. In Michigan, you cannot hunt doves. It's a peaceful bird.

You cannot hunt doves in Michigan. When we were kids, we hunted them on the sly. You shouldn't cut olive branches either because them and doves together equal peace. Is it good eating or doves tasty? Very good. Dark flesh. Dark flesh.

Very flavorful. Pheasants are best. Don't even say it. Don't say it. You're talking about doves. I don't like pheasants. I mean. Look at those tears.

Why doves? But pigeons are okay. Not doves apparently. Chickens. Chickens are fine. No, pigeons and doves have a lot in common but a dove is better morning dove is better is it what's it yeah right this dark liver color yeah so i'm the exact opposite of steve though i mean i've hunted two other places than our area in my entire life i'm 55 years old i hunted the boundary waters. Deer hunted up there four or five years ago. And last spring I went down and hunted turkeys. What's the boundary waters?

Boundary waters, Northern Minnesota. It's the boundary between Wisconsin and Minnesota. It's wild. No, isn't it? I thought, isn't the boundary waters like, it's Canada, Minnesota. I'm sorry, Canada, Minnesota. Yeah. I don't even need to look that up on the internet. Well, yeah. So, but so most of my hunting, you know, and I've been doing it since I was 12. So it's a lot of years, has been done on that farm or in that area and really not, you know, elsewhere. I guess I hunted a little bit when I was in, when I lived in New Hampshire for a few years too, but, um, you know, so sort of the, um, the opposite, opposite experience of, of Steve. Um, but nonetheless, challenging. Yeah. I don't disagree with you at all.

Whitetail deer hunting is really accessible. It's becoming, because of guys like me, I suppose, um, a little less accessible because I, I don't necessarily just, when I was a kid, you could pretty much go hunting anywhere. I mean, we'd just get in the car on a Saturday morning and just go into that woods. And, you know, not deer hunting, but when I was a kid deer hunting, you had to put four guys together in like August or September, fill out a form, send it into the DNR to get a tag to shoot a doe. So that's, and the whole idea, so one doe for four guys, everybody else had a buck tag. So, and that was the idea was that there was the, to bring the population up. Well, now it's exactly the opposite where we're encouraging, I mean, they have the earn a buck rules that kind of got shot down.

But earn a buck is, you know, is in place. But, you know, Steve asked me the other day, how many deer could you shoot on your tag? And I was like, there's no limit that I can do. I was trying to calculate the cost of hunting deer in Wisconsin. It's like, well, you buy a tag for 18 bucks, and it's good for in your area. Yeah, in our area, you get a buck tag, a doe tag,

a second doe tag, and then every time you go in, they'll give you another paper tag. That's in the interest of reducing the herd. And that's all off a permit that costs what? It was $24. $24. That's crazy. That's a good way to get meat for cheap. Yeah, man.

If you're hunting local in that area, it's economical. And when I was a kid, if a deer got hit on the road, people stopped and picked it up and put it in the back of their truck. We ate road-killed deer, man. Absolutely, but now it's like, because the snow, we've had a big melt recently. You see the big drifts or the snow

piles along the edge of the road and here's deer carcasses turning up. And you can't eat them. You can't pick them up. It's too late now. It depends on the state's legality. But, you know, now in Montana, now it was illegal. Now you can pick up certain species.

You can salvage them. You've got to let the state know. We used to just have to call 911, and they'd give you a permit for a deer. We were coming back one time. My old man hit a deer with his bow, okay? We all go out to Blood Trail Deer. Blood Trail Deer until 1, 2 in the morning, never found the deer, never recovered the deer.

I can't remember where he hit it. Probably hit it in the paunch or something. Never found it. Coming back, he's got me and my brothers. Now I'm little, little. I was so little that me and my other brother, we got left behind, and he left us to sleep in the woods, and our landing ran out of gas, so our light was out,

and we fell asleep, and so he couldn't find us. So our light was out and we fell asleep and so he couldn't find us. And they're running around going, stay dead, because you'd have to get close enough to yell and wake us up. So two in the morning, we're coming home, finally. Driving a Jeep AMC Eagle, or Jeep AMC Cherokee. And bam, hit this deer.

So it's, you know, everyone's tired. I'm sleeping up front. My brother's in the back seat. My old man gets out, grabs his deer and throws the son of a bitch in the back of a Jeep Cherokee on a tarp. Sticks an arrow in it. Nope. Start on down the road, and all of a sudden, my brother's in the back flipping out, like freaking. And we turn around, and that son of a bitch is standing up in the back of that truck.

No! Oh, no! Oh, my God. Oh, no! Slams on the brakes, gets out, and hauls that deer out of the back, cuts its throat, waits, comes in, throws it back in on a tarp, and continue on our way home. That was a hard man. Oh, my God.

Talk about self-reliance. You guys sleep in the woods. I'll be back. What are you, six? You fucking pussy? Here's a lantern with three ounces of fluid in it. Right. Go to sleep.

I'll be back. I gave the kid a compass. Whatever. No, he was a hard guy man yeah i guess yeah i guess that sounds like a hard guy at the time like it up until you know it's funny because like there's this uh there's there's like this music i don't even want to name her name, but she's got this song. I'm not angry anymore. My dad's been dead.

My dad died in 2002, 2003. I'm just now. I just turned 40 a week or two ago. I'm just now getting where I'm not so angry at him. And I'm starting to go, a lot of what he did made sense. And a lot of it has to do with I have a three-year-old now. Oh, yeah. And now I'm like, you you know what maybe he wasn't like so you know it just i look like look i look at it through that angle now having a little kid and i see like you want that person to be just like able to fend for themselves and know and

to be capable and know how to fix stuff and know how to take situations in their own hands and know not to complain about stuff. You know what I mean? Well, you came out pretty good. I mean. Yeah, but most people disregard everything they learn from their parents. Yeah. Even if they turned out really good.

Like, you could have a whole slew of siblings all be turned out great, and then every one of them will be like, do the opposite of what their parents did. What do you think you were so angry about? I mean, what was the main thing? I don't want to get too into it. Just him being a hard ass. Yeah. Making us work all the time. All the time. opposite of what their parents did. What do you think you were so angry about? I mean, what was the main thing? Just him being a hard ass. Yeah. Making us work all the time.

All the time. See, these pads, he used to have a longer one, and he'd start making chores, and he wouldn't, like... That sucks. He would just keep going until he had two columns down to the bottom. My dad would do that, but he didn't have... And you'd get on your first day of summer break, and he'd be like, you know... And you'd be like, well, shit, that's going to take me through August. My father would do that stuff,

but he didn't have any staying power. Like he would write up lists. I crashed my car into this car and it cost him like, I don't know how much it was going to cost him. He goes, you're working for this. You're working for this boy. I'll tell you that much right now.

Hope you think, I know you had plans for the summer because you can kiss those plans goodbye because you're going to be working on it. He was so mad at me. Meanwhile, I knew he wrote this long list. I knew he just kind of forgot about it. He just never had any staying power.

He'd get busy. I'd be like, see you later. Hey, I dropped this list. Wasn't I supposed to mow the lawn? Sorry. I got to trick me. Oh, man. No, you probably know, Dad, I'm going to grow up and be a comedian.

Dude, my mother used to change my grades i would get my report card and it sucked and i knew my father my father i knew i'll change it for your father oh my god i couldn't go to my dad with a d in math and i was just i mean you know you don't think i listen now you imagine being fucking in high school holy shit I a mess. What did your parents think when you said you wanted to be a comedian? My father grew up really poor, so when I told him I wanted to be an actor, not even a comedian, an actor.

Is that what you told him first? Yep. I was 21, 22. I remember he looked at me, and his face, I remember his face, the worry and the regret and the dread. But you know what he said to me?

Like, I should have never even had you. I should have drowned him when he was little. Dude, he was so, he was so, I could see. Right. He was so depressed because he just wanted me to be, you know, he just wanted to be, he loved me. He just wanted to be safe. So he just looked at me and he goes like this. He goes, well, are you asking me if I'll support you?

I mean, you want some money for your rent? I go, no. He goes, well, you're going to need it because you're not paying your way around with acting. So we have to talk brass tacks. You can't live in New York without my help. And I never forgot that about him. He said, oh, well, he's a dreamer.

Here goes nothing but when i got my first job when i got mad tv and i called him it was the greatest thing in the world he goes what are you doing in la and i go uh i'm on a tv show and he goes what do you mean and i go i'm gonna be on a tv show every week and he gets commercial i go no it's not commercial i'm gonna be on a tv show he goes i can turn the channel on and you'll be on the show I go that's right and he goes like this. There was a pause and he goes oh my god, I Gotta call your mother and he hung up and then my mother called then my cousins call everybody called and He just couldn't know how to even deal with the emotion of it because I was I was ultimately at first time, you know

But but forget all that bullshit What what ended up bringing us really close because we didn't really get along that well, was how well I kept my head up during the fact that I wasn't working. I spent a lot of time, and you know, for years, not working as an actor. Oh, he admired that you didn't say quit. I never quit, man, and I never got down. I never got down. I would just go, well, here goes another one.

I just never fucking gave up. I don't give up. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You didn't spend that much time not working, because when I met you, you were like 26. Yeah. And you were working. Yeah, but I went a long time without being on a TV show. The fuck does that mean?

From college to not working. What is that? Yeah, but you could be working a little bit prior to that. I'm talking about being an actor, like all the years of not getting jobs. Wait a minute. How long is that if you're 26? Well, from the age of... When did you get out of college?

How old were you? 21. So you were five years. No, I worked at a bank for two years. So five years. Five years from school. No, I'm talking about... Yeah, but it's probably not like an on-off switch.

I started selling magazine articles in 2000, but it took me five years to get it. I could be like, yes, I'm a publishing writer, but I couldn't be like, I'm a writer, writer. Right, but he was on Madden. No, I'm talking about after Madden. Oh, yeah. And at that point, you're like... I didn I'm a publishing writer, but I couldn't be like, I'm a writer, writer. No, I'm talking about after Mad. At that point, you're like... That's because you insisted on doing gay comedy. Whatever, dude. No, I was insisting on doing

acting. Joe would be like, dude, stop with the acting. I'd be in acting class. We'd get into these huge arguments. He'd be like, just do stand-up. Just do stand-up with this acting stuff. I would freak out on pilot season. I'd call him up. I didn't get a job this pilot season. Why wouldn't you want to be autonomous when you could be?

I just didn't understand it. It's the greatest. When I was on news radio, the producer actually said to me, he goes, why are you still doing stand up? You're an actor now. I was like, oh, my God. I got to get the fuck away from you right now before this is contagious. You're kidding me, really? That was the perspective on it?

I didn't know. To be a stand up, for stand up, the most beautiful thing about stand-up is you got everything with you you you're you carry your equipment you are who you are you go to a club and you don't need anything to turn on that microphone and we'll do this yeah turn the lights off turn on the microphone we're good the last thing you want as a stand-up is to have to check in with a bunch of other people if you had to do what you have to do as a stand-up is to have to check in with a bunch of other people. If you had to do what you have to do as a stand-up, what you have to do as an actor, like go to producers and writers and the network and get everything approved, it's a fucking disaster, which is one of the reasons why it's so hard to get

a good show on television. That perfect storm of good writing and good acting and all that stuff coming together, it's incredibly difficult to pull off. It's basically practically impossible. And let's be honest, we have the greatest job in the world. Am I right? Well, it's also the most fun. To me, when I'm an audience member, I would way rather go see Brian Callen do stand-up than go see you in a movie.

If I go see you in a movie... And you can see Brian Callen do stand-up in San Francisco this weekend, Thursday, Friday, Saturday at the Punchline. Yes, go see. You're very funny doing stand-up, but in a movie, the odds of you getting a role that represents you the same way it does your stand-up is not only that.

When you go to see a good comic, the laughs that you have in an hour and a half, you get out of there, your fucking stomach hurts. You're howling laughing. When we went to see you, I told you, my wife said my face hurts. From holding that big smiley thing for whatever, 50 minutes. If you see someone like Joe Rogan or you see Bill Burr or you see these guys, let me tell you something. Take the funniest movie in the world, The Hangover, any movie.

I don't care what it is. There is no way that that audience is going to laugh as much at the hangover as no like last per minute this is not going to happen you know and there's a real problem with the way it's expressed on television too and i'm having an issue with that now um my new special by the way comes out uh this this friday night on um this friday night on Comedy Central. They're airing my latest, my last special. Awesome. Live from the Tabernacle,

the special that I did, I guess it was about a year and a half ago. Yeah. And I'm doing a new one. I'm going to film a new one in June. Because this special,

if you see this special, none of this is on my new comedy that I'm doing now. So over the last year and a half, I've been putting together my new hour. It's done now. And I'm probably year and a half, I've been putting together my new hour. It's done now. And I'm probably going to film that most likely in Denver, most likely in June.

Where? Piecing it together. I want to do it at the Comedy Works because I love that club. Beautiful club. If I can do it there, I'll do it there. If not, I'll do it. I want to do it at a club. I'm trying to figure out how to represent.

When you see a comedy show on television, I'm sorry, it's just not as good as seeing it live. There's something you miss. There's something about the person saying that shit right in front of you that's just way better than someone saying that shit on a video. Yeah, it's like watching a concert video. There's nothing more painful than watching

a concert video. The shared experience, when I saw you recently in Chicago, one of the neat things is sitting there with a friend but but the people around you like what struck somebody else as just like gut-wrenching you know busting funny and i'm yeah that's funny but but then the thing that would get me would be other people are kind of chuckling and i'm just roaring you know and it's like that shared experience, I think, is a part of it. I think it is, too. There's something about going.

And I think the shared experience somewhat gets diminished when there's more than 3,000 people. I've had great times. Like when we did Toronto. What did we do? You did Denver with me when you came out as me. Yes. That was great. I had him introduce me, and then Brian Callen goes out there.

And they're all looking at me. It was pretty cool to get that reception. Literally, I felt like the messiah. And then I could see the front row going, Joe looks thinner. I wonder what's going on. He's got age. He looks so thin and weak. Gained three inches and lost 50 pounds.

That's it. It's like Joe Rogan Lite. There it is. This is actually the video. Realize it's not me. Yeah, it's going to be good. And then just come walking out. Just come walking out.

Yeah. How high were we that we thought this was a good idea? I know. Doing Toronto is amazing. Yeah. 3,000 people. Well, this was this was Denver I wasn't at Denver this is several thousand people but you hear they're like what what's up you fucking freaks that's what Joe says what's up you fucking freaks yeah what the fuck dude

you know one of the best things about seeing like you talk about that experience being in the audience when i saw you recently in new York, it was like you brought up the, you kind of launched into the Duck Dynasty thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? It's some dudes in the audience. I can see a lot of guys in the audience, they start getting real excited because they're like, awesome, because now he's going to start bashing the queers. Like, now we can talk really bad about gay people. And they're getting all charged up.

They're like, come on, let's talk bad about queers. I can't wait. And then Joe like so like turns it on its head in its most vicious way. And the palpability of these dudes' disappointment that it wasn't going to be. That it wasn't going to be that we were talking about how much we hate gay people. And they're kind of like, yeah, yeah, bring it, bring it. I hate them gay people. And then Joe just shot them down the worst way.

And they're kind of getting this little like You know this pissy little mood And this whole thing's playing out right in front of me Like no one would ever know I'm just sitting here watching these guys get like Oh man I thought it was going to be more fun than this Well what it is is that They think that you're going to like

Support his freedom of speech You know because that's like the big argument That you see on Facebook What about freedom of speech you know because that's like the big argument that you see on on facebook what about freedom of speech what about his his christian beliefs about supporting his christian beliefs you know my point on all that has always been why would you care what gay people are doing right like what's going on that you care about gay people and if it's the bible if you're it's because you're really fucking cherry picking if you're going after gays. You're cherry-picking like crazy.

You should go after people that wear two different types of cloth, because that shit's in there, too. Yeah, but the whole premise of the show is that they made a boatload of money. But isn't there a line in the Bible like, a rich man has as much chance of getting into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle? Yes, that's what Jesus said. Yes, that's exactly what he said. I'd be more worried about whether reality TV stars get to go to heaven. Well, you're a liar

If you're doing that show and you're not telling people That it's scripted you're a liar So that is an issue And that's a real issue with those reality shows They are not reality Those shows are fucking scripted Almost all of them You have to sign a non-disclosure if you work for Duck Dynasty

If you work for a lot of those shows If you're a cameraman, if you're a sound guy You have to sign a non-disclosure So that you can't go out and tell everybody that it's all bullshit if you work for Duck Dynasty. If you work for a lot of those shows. If you're a cameraman, if you're a sound guy, you have to sign a non-disclosure so that you can't go out and tell everybody that it's all bullshit. That's one of the most basic things I get. How it comes, when you look at what's going on in the world, the bad things that are happening in the world,

starvation, abuse of children, all these things going on in the world, and you hone in on what's going on in some guy's private life. That's a really good point, by the way. All the problems that really are affecting people, and you go after them. You know what the problem of this world really is? It's homosexuals.

Two dudes having brunch with disposable income on a Sunday. Who gives a fuck? That's a great point. It's very weird. We're very weird about that. We're very weird about what we decide to get upset about and what we don't decide to get upset about. It's a strange thing.

And what we should be upset about, we're not. And on a show like that, what you should be upset about is the fact that they're fucking faking it. That's not a drama. That's not like watching, you know, fill in the blank, fucking Game of Thrones, where you know it's scripted. This is a show where they're pretending this is their real life, and it's not like watching you know fill in the blank fucking uh game of thrones where you know it's scripted this is a show where they're pretending this is their real life and it's not

one of the things that i really appreciate about your show is that it's a hundred percent legit above board all the way if you don't get an animal you show the whole fucking show and you've had several shows where you don't get an animal and one of them that I really respected man was that episode this year where you Had that bear in your sight and you just decided not to shoot it and you had this it was a very unique episode Because you're fucking bear hunting and you're a hunter and you've killed God knows how many animals in your life and you had your crosshairs on this bear and it was a done deal And he said I'm not feeling it. I don't want to shoot this animal and yeah bears are weird for me you know i say that but then i went shot one shot a bear not long after that but but no at that yeah that happens to me but you apologized after you shot

that bear which i thought was weird too because you wounded it and then you had to shoot it a second time and you said you were sorry for hurting it yeah like yeah i feel i don't know man bears i love to hunt bears and i like to look at bears and sometimes i confuse which of those i like it's confusing me which i like more you know why is that i feel um kind of an i feel like an affinity to bears in a way i just kind of that that some of some of their favorite foods are so favorites of mine too like i watch bears go eat blueberries it's like i love eating blueberries and at that place i got in alaska the bears all eat blue mussels and blue mussels are like one of my freaking favorite things in the world and so it's like you look at a bear it's like man we're

kind of i always feel like we like the exact same foods you know and another thing about bears um is i feel that bears kind of wake up a little different every day you know that they're they're they're they experiment you know they're processing things and experimenting with things and um and so it's a it's a potent animal for me And I think that if you look at the history of hunting And the history of hunters as represented through art that they leave behind And oral tradition they leave behind It's not a new concept that a hunter would develop an affinity to certain animals

Oftentimes people respected the animals that they hunted the most You look at the relationship, plains, tribes to bison. It was become like an object of worship, a very sacred object. You have a very conflicted, complicated relationship with the animal and you hunt it and kill it. So I'm not, I don't even need to feel funny about the way I feel towards some of the animals I hunt because it's like, it's just something that has obviously happened to hunters for a long, long time. And as a hunter, you kind of develop your own system. Like we never use the word taboo when we're talking about ourselves. We always use taboo when we're looking at other cultures, be like, oh, those crazy people, they won't eat that because they have a taboo.

Meanwhile, like we don't eat dogs. You know, we have a taboo system. We have a taboo system like we don't need dogs you know we have a taboo system we have a taboo system that governs the things we do and i through hunting and through observations of animals and there's i've developed a set of things that i will and will not do and there's animals that to me are really special you know not that i dislike ones, but just the bear to me is special. I'll go bear hunting this June. I'm thinking about it. It's just something that I look at a bear

and I respect it as a renewable resource, something that if managed properly I can kill the bear, have it hide, render its fat down and make my own lard with it, eat all the meat. I like that, but also something about me really likes the individual bear too, and just to observe them, and then now and then just to let one walk.

You said something really interesting to me just now about the fact that they wake up differently every day, and that's something interesting because what you're saying is that they kind of learn as they get older. I feel that's the case. And you feel like you're interrupting that process, Whereas a deer, you don't feel that way. I don't. A deer, well, it's two or it's one or it's five. I mean, they learn, but it's not the same thing. I have a hard time thinking of white-tailed deer, or most things.

I have a hard time thinking of them as individuals. Yeah, me too. But a bear, like really, especially after I killed that bear, I was talking about when I was 17, and I got that back. They did a tooth. I think it's called, is it dentum that they do? Yeah. They cut a cross section on that tooth.

And I got back. I thought, 17, man. Because at the time, I was in my early 20s, man. I was in my early 20s. I'm like, that son of a bitch has been around for 17 years. Damn. That's legit. That's legit.

What did that 17-year-old bear taste like? I kept some roasts off the back legs. And I kept the loins. And the thing was fine, man. But like I said, I ground a lot of it. like what that 17 year old bear tastes like i kept some roasts off the back legs and i kept the loins and the thing was fine man but like i said i ground a lot of it but i did keep some roasts off it but we ate it we sloppy jelled it we did everything and then the loins we just grilled and how was it the grilled loins were good it was still a good bear and you have to make it medium right with a bear because well plus with that bear i knew i knew he he had trichinosis. So it was good. You know, I can't even, like, it was so long ago now.

I mean, I remember it being good. Everybody being really surprised by how it was good. But I'll handle bear meat in different ways. You know, I don't just, like, cut a chunk of bear meat and throw it on the grill. Like, I do a lot of, you know, you might want to tenderize it. Or I'll do marinades on it. I'll smoke it. Like, I bring more effort to bear meat than I would to like that, that fine taste and

Driftless area, Wisconsin whitetail we were eating, which is basically warmed up. You know what I mean? You're just like putting a little bit of, putting a teeny bit of heat. But you do that with, with, with, with, with everything. You've got a lot of emails and comments from people about the duck and how good was the duck really? And I was like, it was incredible. What do you mean? Yeah. People are just like, well are just like well you know ducks i was like are you talking about

mallards and wood ducks i mean because you know you're talking about diving ducks that's a whole other thing but you know mallards are pretty hard to screw a mallard up i think joe's showing some footage of rendering uh yeah that's the uh that's rendering bear fat down in the oil and that's a bear that had been eating blueberries, right? And those are fall bears? Fall. They're fattening up? There's nothing better.

I mean, there really is nothing better than those bears. You would get them in late September, October, and they're up there eating blueberries. They've been eating blueberries for months. Oh, my God, they're good. I mean, they're just good. We've got to make that happen. Listen, Brian Cowan, we've got to go on more hunting trips. I know.

I'm not shooting a bear, but I'll go on a hunt. You won't shoot a bear? No, I won't shoot a bear, but I'll definitely shoot a deer or an elk or anything I'm going to do. I just like bears too much. You'll see them in this fall for sure. When we go moose hunting? Yeah. I want to come.

Can you come? Is there enough room? No. Figure it out. We'll figure it out? Oh, that sounds like there isn't room. That's always like, we'll figure it out. That's we'll see.

No, I'm saying if you are honest, you're like, dude, I want to go so bad. We'll see. I really think that the public needs to know how fucking good your show is. And I think we're doing our best to expose it on this show and to expose it online, let people know. And I know that your ratings are growing, but I can't help feel like you're underutilized on... I love the Sportsman Channel. I watch it. Don't get me wrong.

Hey, the Sportsman Channel gives us the ability to make the show. Yeah, absolutely. Because you can't just go and do the stuff we do and show the stuff we show. On a regular network. You can't. They wouldn't let you. No, because they have it in their head. They can't gut animals and show the stuff we show on a regular network. You can't. They wouldn't let you. No, because they have it in their head. They can't gut animals and all that stuff.

There's a set of things that the American public will tolerate and there's a set of things they won't tolerate. And we have the ability to do... We have absolute creative freedom to show the things that I'm interested in talking about. But do you feel that that's changing? Like when you watch these shows,

like these Alaska, The Last Frontier, all these different shows. Yeah, it's changing. Those shows are showing a lot of hunting. Showing a lot of stuff, yeah. A lot of gutting animals, a lot of skinning animals. They're showing animals hanging up in barns and shit.

I mean, they're showing the raw, real deal, and they're doing it under the... There's something that they feel like is more romanticized about subsistence living. Well, yeah, but there's a fabricated thing there where they're always trying to make up this idea that this person's going to die if he doesn't do this, which is just horseshit.

Well, the most fabricated thing was when they were fucking fly fishing, and they're like, oh shit, a bear's coming. Then you see the bear eating a fish, and the fish is fucking filleted. Like, they baited that bear. No, the real thing. Fuck yeah, they did.

You get in a lot of trouble for that, man. That fish was totally filleted. Clean fillets missing from the sides. Like, absolutely cut. The bear's eating it. I'm like, you didn't fucking do that. The bear did not do that. That was a knife. Goddamn fillet knife. A straight, clean line

from the gill's back. So yeah, we don't need to make drama. Yeah, you're living a lifestyle out of choice and not just some guy acting like, we got a whole damn film crew out here. We're flying back and forth with batteries and broken cameras and lenses every damn day. And we're going to pretend like this guy out here is going to perish. You don't need to come up with like cockamamie justifications. I live a lifestyle that I want to live and I have very concrete, resolute reasons why I live that way. Well, what they're missing is the entertainment value because a lot of those people are fucking boring.

That's where Callan and I come in. So comedians and hunting. That's it. You got your entertainment. It's called comedians and hunting. Your fucking show, man. I'm telling you. It should be an hour long because there was so much great shit, extended footage that you guys have released.

Just this shit of Brian singing while we're pigeon hunting and trying to get the i was 22 minutes man 22 minutes the shit on the stick thing i was laughing i was crying and i was so i don't remember even saying that stuff but when you're in the way you when you laugh at me that's what i start laughing at like your laughter is so ridiculous we're sitting there literally having a conversation and then i I ended it with, I have a lot of shit stories. Well, that's the video, the shit on the stick. Yeah, the 100-mile-an-hour shit. Yeah, by the way, that shit on the stick video has got over 100,000 views already. It does. It's like 150.

Yeah, yeah. 140. Yeah, it's our best. It's Meat Eater's best video. There you go. I was doing, that's what happened. I was doing stand-up in New York, and somebody goes, tell the shit story. Tell us the shit story.

And I didn't know what he was talking about. I thought he was talking about the one where I was hiking. Remember that story I told about hiking? I had to shit with that girl. And I thought that's what he was saying. I go, I don't have time. I'm doing my act. But he was talking about fucking that.

That's crazy. What did you say to have a look at like about what the shit was well of course you know i'm trying to interject some education to the thing like we had talked about yeah no kidding but uh so it was black knot k-n-o-t which is uh is a but i call my shit a black knot anyway that's what i'm saying I call my asshole a balloon knot Anyway it afflicts black cherry Which is what that plant was

And there it goes again I like black cherry It's three days old It's got 140,000 hits so far I can play it it's funny That was so fun too And that was a day when we didn't see a single deer. We went up there in the afternoon.

Yeah. Next to your arm. Is that s***? Yep. How'd that wind up on that stick? Only a guy like me decided I'm going to s*** on that stick. I've never actually seen s*** on a stick before. It's a common expression.

Up until now, I thought it was a myth. It also might be something called platinum. If we could get Brian to break the branch off And crush it up And put it in his mouth Well no he just needs to smell it I'll do it for attention Well you can see

Let's let people see the rest of the video Online but we were fucking howling laughing That was so funny There was many of those instances The talking monkey thing We were all sitting around, and was it your brother's son that was there, a 17-year-old kid? And we start telling fuck stories.

Oh, my God. This kid's eyes went up like dinner plates. Yeah, but Joe was just saying. Joe was pulling no punches. Joe says that the kid's dad kind of looked a little bit like, oh. It was my brother David, by the way. And Joe's like, he's got the internet, man. There's no way we're going to tell him something he doesn't know.

Joe was pulling no punches. Even I was like, oh, jeez. This kid's going to tone it down a little bit. You didn't pull any punches either, pal. You went with me on it. I guess you're right. The kid was great. That's peer pressure, though.

I blame peer pressure. And he ended up. He wound up getting a buck. That's right. He ended up killing a really nice buck from the stand that you guys were sitting in right by that white oak tree that I said one was going to walk by. I believe he's, yeah, he's a good kid too. Fun kid. Stud too.

He looks like an athlete. Yeah. Good kid, Jack's a good kid. That whole area is so, you're so lucky, man. It's such a beautiful area to go hunting in. And the fact that you're there, you know, for, how long is hunting season from archery to rifle? Archery starts September 15th. And then in our area, there's a little bit of time in December where you can't hunt,

but it's pretty much until the weekend after New Year's Day. That's crazy. And then two years ago when we did the first episode, I think they've stopped this now, but you get landowner tags because again we're trying to reduce the herd and so when steve called me about that he said what do you think we do that rabbit hunting thing and maybe we can do a little trapping or something and i was like well i can go one better we can still deer hunt at the end of february so actually you've been to my place twice to my family's farm twice in the last four or five years at this time of the year when we went hunting.

You can go hunting at the end of February with a landowner tag. Yeah. How does that work? Well. It's private land hunt, so you're not dipping into, you know, they're not trying to diminish. The managers. Harvesting might happen on public land. Right.

And especially in our area where they're trying to reduce the deer herd. Because of the CWD thing largely. Because it spreads faster the more deer there are. And especially in our area where they're trying to reduce the deer herd. Because of the CWD thing largely. Because it spreads faster the more deer there are. Right. So, you know, that's part of it. And I believe that we have, you know, that we have too many deer in our area, you know, in terms of a balanced ecosystem. So, yeah, so I think that I had to buy the landowner tag, which was like $2. And I remember Dodie, like, oh, he's going to step up.

And there were other guys from Vortex. And Pat was there. I mean, and Carl. And we had seven or eight or nine guys. And Dodie steps up. He's going to buy the license. And it was like $18 for all of us. He's like, he's got the car.

He just puts a $20 on the bar. Yeah, that's right. We hunted on that trip for $2. Yep, that's right. That's exactly what it was the bar. We hunted on that trip for two bucks. Yep, that's right. That's exactly what it was. That's wild. That's incredible, man. Yeah, you didn't need to have a regular hunting license then.

It was the landowner permit, and then these guys can have tags. That was the deal. Since you've been hunting since you were a kid, and both of you guys have been, what's your approach to dealing with people like the people that are going crazy on my Instagram? What's your approach to dealing with people Like the people that are going crazy on my Instagram People that don't think that there's That it's a good thing to do To go hunting

They think there's something evil about it They think there's something wrong with it How do you deal with that disconnect? I don't run into it very much I mean I do a little bit in Madison But as I said Most of the people that I know That don't hunt don't have a problem with me doing it.

Because of where you live. It's a culture thing, right? Yeah, but it's also, I mean, Madison, Wisconsin is a pretty liberal town and folks from all over the world there, and there's a certain fascination with that. Actually, I've gotten a little more hot water talking about feral cats. Yeah, that's something. I'm even careful about bringing up that subject, man. People get real hoinky about feral cats.

And, I mean, on the farm, there were always extra cats around. And when you got to a point on the farm where. Extra cats. Dude, I used to do some contract work. I used to do some contract work. In that field of business. We talked about that on the first podcast you ever came on. And so that's way more a sensitive subject than, you know, hunting wild animals.

Because they're pets, yeah. Well, right, and people have a different connection to them. And so Friends of Ferals is this big group in Wisconsin. And I know some really- Friends of Ferals? Friends of Ferals. Yeah, they're spading and neutering them and putting them back out. Putting them back out?

Putting them back out. Just like, go eat some more songbirds. Well, yeah. I mean, it's sort of- Oh, they do that, don't they? They also kill rodents. No, no, no. Yeah.

This one friend of mine- This man. Guys that run farms, I mean, you got to have cats. I mean, a bunch of cats. Like, Kiefer's got- Man, he's got- Every once in a while, he'll say, hey, by the way, when we're up walking, you know, there's a cat up there, we need to, I need a few less. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, for just for rodent contamination.

But yeah, and a friend of mine who's, I don't know if she belongs to Friends of Ferrell's, but was one of the people who sort of chastised me about talking about a gunny sack and a rock, which is how you get rid of cats, extra cats. A gunny sack and a rock? You mean throw them in the water? And just drown them. My old man's grandpa honestly made him dispose of a litter of his own puppies that way one time. Whoa. Anyway, I made a comment about it somewhere.

And actually I said something about I didn't even go into that. I just went into songbirds and all that sort of stuff. And she said, look, you know, she's got horses and stuff. And she said, on my place, all I have is feral cats. And they've all been spayed or neutered, and then I put them out there. And yeah, I get the whole thing about songbirds. But in my area, or in my place, I'm taking care of it. You know, they're not bothering songbirds.

They're not doing this and that. And I'm like, yeah, but that's not what's happening everywhere else. Yeah. So, you know, the discussion ends up being to my mind, at least the same kind of thing. Well,

how many, how many cats is enough? How many deer are enough? Um, you know, what's the balance that we're trying to achieve here? What's the, cause you know,

we're the ones who made the problem. Steve, look at Sochi. I mean, they, they killed, they got, they, the Russian government came in and killed a bunch of stray dogs.

They had a real stray dog problem. And that made news. And healthy-looking stray dogs, too, by the way. Yeah, they were. But they shot a bunch of dogs. Steve, you've had this conversation many times, I'm sure. And one of them I watched in a book signing that you had. I thought, was it a book signing? Yeah, a PETA guy came.

Fascinating. You know, and he was cool because he came to a book event I did and sat there through the whole thing, waited until the question period, raised his hand, and then took me to task on the idea of hunting and that everything I was saying was just like a justification for wanting to harm animals and kill animals. And I pointed out to him

something that I've said many times and I'll say many times more. I think the people who come at it with a perspective of, have an anti-hunting perspective, are defending a set of ideas that they're concerned for animals, they're concerned for wildlife, they're concerned

for the well-being of the natural world. They're defending a set of ideals that I know that I understand better than they do. I care more about it than they do. I know much, much more about it than they do. I'm more vested in safeguarding the things that they think they're safeguarding than they are. I mean, I just am, you know. I might not, in my mind, there's a vast difference between an individual wild animal and the idea or the essence of that species it's difficult for people to understand an idea that that they're saying like if you love this

animal so much how could you kill it and it might be if you came down from mars you came down from outer space it might seem like this really counterintuitive notion but because of the way we manage wildlife particularly in this country we the way we manage wildlife, particularly in this country, we have where we manage wildlife as a public trust thing, as a renewable resource. The funding for wildlife research, the funding for enforcement, the funding for habitat improvement

in this country is coming out of hunting license sales, is coming out of excise taxes that are on firearms and sporting goods. that's coming out of excise taxes that are on firearms and sporting goods. Guys that hunt are financing, to a large measure, American wildlife. That's particularly the case, and even more, I mean, you could say that, oh, sure, that's just inadvertent. They don't mean to do that.

They just need to have a gun and they want to have a hunting license. But then you look at the work of organizations like National Wild Turkey Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Ducks Unlimited, Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, Backcountry Hunters and Anglers. You have these groups that are hunter-based habitat improvement, hunter-based wildlife organizations. Those are the people paying for the things and financing the research that gives the anti-hunters even an idea of what they're trying to defend. In this country, it would not exist if we didn't have some idea of publicly owned, commodified wildlife, where we recognize that wildlife has value and should be maintained for the future. You could have a bunch of rosy opinions about, oh, that we would just take care of these things because we should. And I agree.

It'd be great if we did. But one of the best things that can happen to a species now in contemporary America, one of the best things that can happen to it is that it has a perceived value to hunters because we want to make sure that our resources are safeguarded and are going to be around for a long time to come and they're going to be around for our kids. I'm not talking about that it's altruistic or anything else. It's based on pragmatism. But we're taking care of our own and we're handling our own issues.

Have you ever had a real legitimate debate with someone who's an animal rights activist where they sat down for a long period of time, like on a podcast, and had a long-form conversation. Never. Because no one... It's a shallow conversation on their part. And it's a shallow conversation on my part because if I sat down with someone, I'd go into it just as assholey as they would.

I'd go into it being like, I'm never going to change my mind. I don't think you would, because that conversation that you had with that guy at that book signing shows that you've got a pretty nuanced point of view when it comes to this. It's something you've considered. I've tried to defend it from that point of view in order to

understand it better. And the problem is there's nothing there. It gets shallow. When you go into this idea of overpopulation, you go into the idea of, well, what are you going to do? Are you going to bring in predators? Like, how are you going to control this population? Because if you don't, you don't really love these animals. Because the bottom line about game animals when it comes to, like, things like deer and elk, they must be hunted either by wolves or by mountain lions or by people.

Because if they're not, they're just going to fuck and they're not they're just gonna fuck and they're just gonna overpopulate and they're gonna get disease or you get like something like the ham or you get or you wind up where you're at with the hamptons or where you're at with new zealand where then you have government financed control efforts where you have people willing to pay to do something or you finance the you know the sort of managed well i wanted i would love to hear that conversation like what is the what's what's the contrary point of view talk to bill maher no he's a fucking silly bitch that guy is so silly he's friends with ann coulter and he's he's such a weird dude when it comes to so many things but the pita thing is a knee-jerk

reactionary thing that you can do if you're getting all your food from a fucking supermarket. You're so not in touch with the natural world. You're banging Playboy Playmates at the mansion. That's a fucking wildlife preserve right there. That's a fenced-in preserve. Yes, it is. Well, another area – I'm sorry. Go ahead.

I want to know what the point of view is. What is the debate against it? Because I've never seen it done. I've never seen it successfully argued. Because we'd been talking about two different things but you're not really but they i think that people would come out and they would be talking about just suffering okay animal suffering i could never look someone in the eye and say i could never look someone in the eye and say that an animal is uh willfully lending themselves to slaughter. I could ever look someone in the eye and say that, oh yeah, hunting animals is painless procedure.

And so if they have a thing where they value, if their primary thing is stopping any level of suffering happening to any individual sentient being, and that's their goal, my goal is just so different. My goal is to have a management, when I say managed, I'm just saying sustainable. To have a sustainable suite of North American wildlife that we can manage into the future for myself and future generations to enjoy. And that we can leave the country and leave the world in a better place ecologically than we found it i think that's a scientific perspective steve

and when you're talking to peter people the reason that it's hard to figure it's it's it's religious you're talking about religious fanatics in a way well it's a shallow thought thinking process because they've only looked at it on the surface and they've looked at it in a way where they've conveniently ignored the fact that these are animals that have a finite lifespan and that the animals that are traditionally hunted by predators, whether it's human predators... You're arguing with people who are religious.

But are they? Or are they just trying... Are they just nice people that haven't looked deep into it? Well, some people, I think some of the PETA people and some of the movement came when we realized that big pharma and a cosmetics industry were using animals for experiments like chimpanzees and bunny rabbits with lipstick. And a lot of people said, you know, why are you making animals suffer on these farms where

you're using them for their fur and testing makeup on them and they're going blind? Or you're seeing how a monkey reacts when you take its baby away you in the end the animal sobs or even and and i don't know that the extent of how much hiv um drugs have benefited from from experimentation on chimpanzees but i've read very heartbreaking accounts of chimpanzees that are given hiv and they just sob because they feel sick and they feel terrible and they literally just put their head in their hands and sob you know alone in some case so you can understand all of us I think all of us go wait a minute I can understand going that's not right

I don't want I don't want to buy products that are tests on animals and we all do that so I think some of the PETA movement was fueled by that particular thing. Yeah. Well, Doug raises beef cattle and he just said that there's some cattle practices that he's uncomfortable with. Yeah. I mean, we're all drawing lines and you're right. Olavas could look like, if you can put some kind of shampoo in a rabbit's eye and determine that that's not a good recipe for shampoo and you could have arrived at the same conclusion in some way that didn't involve animal suffering. It's a potent argument.

Yeah, but a lot of drugs that save lives. That's the thing. You start in a petri dish, then you do test them on animals, and the last group is a control group of humans. Just read a book about this. That's what you do. And the reason you test it on animals is because you have to see initially how it's going to react in an organism as complex as an animal organism to see if it has adverse side effects

before you go on to test it onto a human. I can appreciate, like I said, when somebody says, if you're testing animals to see if somebody can look prettier, I can see that being somebody can have an objection. Right, and so then it becomes a question of what's worth testing on animals. And I couldn't agree with you more. And Steve's right. People will call you. If you're mistreating your animals in our area, other people who have animals and people who hunt,

if you're mistreating your animals, you get called out on it in our area, other people who have animals and people who hunt. If you're mistreating your animals, you get called out on it in our area. People will say, you know, wait a minute, just like if you're doing poor management practices in your fields and whatnot, people will call you out on it. Why aren't you doing contour stripping or why aren't you taking care, you know, why aren't you taking care of things? So, you know, it's sort of an extension of that. So, you know, in my view, it ends up being, there's a balance in all of this. And yeah, case by case, I'd go with you. There's things, I mean, I'm not worried about, personally not worried about eye makeup or that kind of stuff. So I don't think it makes sense. Maybe you should be, you'd look beautiful. There was a question about whether I was, you know.

But the marketplace, by the way, because of that, that education, a lot of the marketplaces said, you see a lot of, how many products do you see that are not tested on animals? So in a lot of ways, the marketplace kind of went, you know what, a lot of people, all of us went, I don't want an animal, I don't want that cream. Well, there's such a big difference between testing cosmetics, which is so frivolous, and testing medicine, which can save your children. There's a huge difference in my eyes. I don't have a problem with them testing medicine that can save babies.

I'm sorry I don't. I like people more than I like animals. I have two dogs. Like the polio vaccine. I mean, all of our major vaccines, man. We wouldn't have them. Yeah, I have two dogs. I have two cats.

I love animals. I fucking do love animals. I love to eat them too, though. I'll tell you a surprising thing I saw one time. Do we have more? We have a couple minutes. We're running out of steam here. I'll save it for next time.

We turn into a pumpkin at three hours in. So we talked about a lot of this on the show, Meat Eater. We did, yeah. Tomorrow night. Tomorrow night. The show needs to be an hour. Don't you think the show needs to be an hour? I'd love to see the show be an hour.

Sports Channel to Ken, that's Sarah Palin brought fucking moves. Yeah, I've had some questions about that one, too. Hey, I'm sure it's going to bring attention to the network, which is a great thing. It's a great network, and they support that show, which is the best show on television. I think all the time about going an hour, and we talk about the upsides and downsides of going an hour. There's no downside. There's no downside. There's something really just, but I've fallen in love, a little bit, a hesitant love with just how clean and crisp a well-done, how clean and crisp like a well-done.

It's too good a show. You're right. It's too good a show. It needs 44 minutes. Please. It needs an hour. It needs no commercials. That's great.

I couldn't agree with you more, but I really got to get this in or Helenen is gonna give me heck after a while helen's gonna give me hell and that is the show on but then also the show on the tomorrow night is the second part of our episode and i honestly i'm excited to see it because i have no idea what happens in this second part other than i know what happened while we were there but what became a part of the show what What out of that 80 hours made it into the 2020s? Yeah, it's really interesting. And Steve, you know, with the first show we did, Steve warned me and said, well, you know, nobody likes the way they come across. Nah, you came across right.

And I felt exactly the opposite. And then the other thing is that you can download episodes on, I can never remember the name. MeatEater.VTX.TV. VHX. VHX. MeatEater.VTX.TV? VHX. MeatEater.VHX.TV. That's exactly right. Okay, go there.

You can stream and download. There it is right there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, awesome fucking show. Live to hunt, hunt to live, bro. It really is the best show on television. And, you know, I get a lot of compliments about this show. People that love it that I turned on to it.

And they're not even hunters they have no desire to hunt they never want to hunt they just love it it's a great show it's a great narration it's just it's a really special show

thanks Joe Rogan's the best thing that ever happened to the show there it is ladies and gentlemen well I'm honored I'm honored that you've had us on not once but twice and that we're going to do it again

and maybe with Callan well if you don't want to laugh I don't have the honor we're going to Alaska we're going to fuck up some moose alright it's happening if there's room I don't want to laugh, then I don't have the honor. We're going to Alaska. We're going to fuck up some moose, all right? It's happening. If there's room. I don't want to be a...

We'll make room. We'll make another raft. We'll buy some more land from the Soviet Union. You just send Clifford his money. Hey, Clifford's Critter Creations. I got a teddy bear for my daughter. It's a long story. Don Clifford's a good man.

Follow Steve Rinella on Twitter. It's Steven Rinella on Twitter. You can follow Brian Callen on Twitter as well. B-R-Y-A-N-C-A-L-L-E-N. And on Instagram, both guys, Steven Rinella and Brian Callen on Instagram. The show is on the Sportsman's channel. Find it.

It's on DirecTV. It's 605 on DirecTV or 606? I don't know. I think it's channel 605 on DirecTV. Just find it. Sportsman's Channel. It's an excellent show. It's Meat Eater, and it's on tomorrow night.

It'll be the final episode. Thursday is 8 o'clock Eastern. And it's on during the week. You can run a search for it. You're not an idiot. You know how to do it. Doug Duren, you're a fucking awesome human being. It's been a pleasure to be your friend.

Bubbly Doug, man. Come see me this weekend. Come see Brian Callen. My buddy Ronnie Bame, one of my best friends, almost lifelong hunting partner, went to see Brian Callen. He gave it two thumbs up. Loved it. Two thumbs up. He said, quote, I laughed my dick off.

Coming to Minneapolis to see you. I'll be there. You'll be there. I'll be at the Punchline in Minneapolis next weekend. Laugh your dicks off. Punchline in San Francisco, one of the great comedy clubs in the country. It's a perfect setup. I love that fucking club. I will be at the Verizon

Theater in Dallas on March 14th with Ari Shafir and Duncan Trussell. Then I'll be in Miami at the Jackie Gleason Theater on April 3rd with Tony Hinchcliffe. And then I'll be in Orlando on April

18th at some fucking theater. And then go to joerogan.net for tickets. Figure it out. I can't tell you everywhere I'm going to be. Look, we love the fuck out of you people. We got a lot of crazy podcasts coming up next week. We got Louis Theroux.

I got Robert Green and someone else. I forget who that is. They're going to be mad at me, but whatever. Fucking deal with it. All right. Thanks to our sponsors.

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