The Joe Rogan Experience - #468 - Duncan Trussell, Christopher Ryan

Episode Date: March 11, 2014

Duncan Trussell is a stand-up comedian, and host of his own podcast "The Duncan Trussell Family Hour" available on Spotify. Christopher Ryan, Ph.D. is a psychologist, speaker, and author of New York Times best seller Sex At Dawn.

It feels weird when you break up conversations like this. But wasn't the idea about gold and precious minerals being there's very few of them? There's a finite amount so that this is a good thing to base money on because it's, you know, people sort of always kind of recognize there's got to be like a way to put a cap on it. Yes. The way to keep this thing, it doesn't totally make sense for controlling everything. I mean, you think about what money really is. It's so bizarre.

It's because it's not human. Okay. It's not thinking, but it seems to be an organism. It seems to be something that requires you to love it. So it allows you to connect yourself to all these material items that fill up this weird hole in your idea of the world. I'll tell you what it is. It's a western god. Right? Because it's

power hungry. It accumulates power. It's jealous. It doesn't want any other currencies in existence. It wants to control the market. And it only works if everybody believes in it. That's a dark way to put it. I've heard it put a positive way, which is it just represents the life flow. It represents this flow of energy

that's always coming through the universe. And it's kind of like one manifestation of that energy flow. And if you look at it like that, instead of demonizing it, which I've definitely done in the past and just see it as just this thing that sort of, it's like, you know, when you throw paint on the invisible man or something, you know, it reveals this kind of flow through the universe. That's where you get into the secret stuff, you know, like if you're very generous, more comes back, you know? Yeah, but don't you think that money does have characteristics? I mean, don't you think there are predictable things that happen to a person's life when a bunch of money comes into it?

Yeah, no doubt. I think money is objectively toxic. You think so? I think it's literally toxic when you consider all the disgusting people who handle that shit, all the fear sweat that soaks into it. And cocaine, huh? Lots of cocaine. I don't think that money is inherently toxic. I think people with power are inherently toxic. Yeah.

I don't think it has anything to do with money. I think the real corrupting factor of money is that they want someone at the, if you, everybody wants it. Okay. So if everybody wants it it it's someone at some point in time is gonna try to control the flow of other people acquiring it because then it'll interfere with them and so then it becomes this chimpanzee competition thing it's not that money is toxic because you could take wealthy

people who make a lot of money who do a lot of good things with it and they seem to be really nice you know and they they have this ability to help and affect all sorts of other folks like bill gates i don't know anything about bill gates but what i know about watching bill gates is his like constant charity work okay but let's take this back to where you started right with the apple shutting down the bitcoin right the way bill gates got rich the way microsoft got they are, is by shutting down competition. Every time somebody rose that would challenge Windows, they would shut it down, buy them out, drive them out of business. They're like the Walmart of software. That's why everybody bitches about how shitty Windows is, but you can't not use Windows if you're in a big company in the 90s.

Well, that's also because they got a stronghold on the market when Apple was shit. I mean, Apple was really bad. And they didn't let anybody else come up. Well, Apple wouldn't let anybody sell their operating system and just attach it to a computer. When you buy an Apple computer, you buy it from them. They used to have clones. They used to have these Apple clones you could buy. And then they shut those clones down.

And people got really pissed. And businesses also, like the old Apples were dog shit. They were bad. And when Windows came out, there was so many good things about Windows operating system as opposed to the old OSX. Like there's something about the way the operating system worked that it was really bad with multitasking. I thought it was the other way. I thought that Apple operating systems sort of led the way and Windows copied them. No, no, no, no, no. There's definitely some copying back and forth from each other. But the original way of using a user interface, a graphic user interface, it was invented by Xerox. They invented the first computer that worked like that. Everything else was a terminal that you'd have to just punch in code. They figured out how to do that first. And then Apple and then Windows copied that.

But so what? It's just a graphic user interface. I mean, like, what's going on behind the scenes? Well, the old days before OSX, Apple had no memory protection, no preemptive multitasking. Like, the old operating systems, the old operating system for Apple were, like, really shitty. So then they changed it to go with the Windows platform, to go with the Intel platform, and they couldn't get anything more out of that IBM computer that they used to sell. They couldn't get

any more juice out of it. And then the Windows computers were getting up to like one gigahertz. So they just jumped ship and went to Intel and had to change everything. Oh, you're talking about the chip? Yeah. They had to change their processors. They had to change their processors. And by the way, if I butchered any of this, real true computer geeks, I apologize. I know.

I'm imagining thousands of them. I'm so impressed. Whatever the multitasking thing. Yeah, preemptive multitasking. Wow. The ability to do – well, I think a lot of times when – like today, Windows is awesome with that. So is Mac. You can run a bunch of different programs at the same time.

But it used to be – like if you wanted to, iTunes wasn't around back then, but it used to be if you wanted to open up iTunes and also have a browser running and also be checking your Twitter feed on a Twitter application, you'd have a real fucking problem. Especially if you're trying to play a video online as well, then your computer's just going to shit itself. But now that's super commonplace. But one of the reasons is there's just more, the operating system is far more complex, and it's a Unix-based operating system now. So when Apple came around with OSX, it was so far ahead of anything else.

Windows looked like a dinosaur in comparison. That's when I switched over. The guys in the Fear Factor office had these Apple computers with OSX. For whatever reason, Hollywood has always been, like, super, super Apple. Like, everything, like, Apple evangelists on sets. Graphics. But then, yeah. Not just that.

But remember when Apple shit all over Final Cut? Remember that? They did that update to Final Cut and just nerfed it and turned it into this, like, baby machine or something? Well, Red Band stopped using it. Well, so did my brother. My brother's a video editor in D. DC, and he switched to a PC.

And the new Windows system is pretty amazing, man. I've used it. It's really cool. I like it a lot. The new Windows system for video editing? Is that what you mean? Well, no, just the new Windows. The operating system itself is so much different.

If you're used to, like, whenever you stopped using it, if you revisit it now, it's pretty cool, man I sure it's cool as I still use Mac though But I think one cool thing about Windows is that it gives you the freedom to fuck up your whole bug up your computer And that's cool, man. There's always some with Apple. You always feel like your hands are tied a little bit, you know They're always trying to control shit. They took flash away Remember when they did that right after I learned to code an action script a little bit those motherfuckers started launching photon missiles into flash and ever since then i've had a sour taste over apple because i think there was a reason there was a bunch of security exploits with flash though wasn't there

who cares let me destroy my goddamn computer if i want to and my life it's that attitude of like the older the older i get the more grading it becomes when you realize you're being protected from destroying yourself it's like stop it let me let me do this if this is what i'm compelled to do well especially when it's been proven that the things are trying to prevent you from doing aren't harmful oftentimes like pot yes think about the money that's been spent on keeping pot illegal. Of course, everyone distrusts you now. They're never going to listen to a goddamn word you said. You try to keep pot from them.

Yes. It's one of the dumbest things the government has ever done is try to keep pot from people. No shit. Because you smoke it, you find out it's awesome, you don't die, and then you start distrusting everything. Right. Well, masturbation. Think about how many people thought they were going to die from masturbation right you lose your mind you get

hair on your palms but when did that end that wasn't my time no well unless you're catholic no no i'm talking about earlier times early 20th century 19th century you know i never heard that you were going to go blind or anything oh yeah there were there are medical books in the 19th century you know kellogg had this whole thing about it. It causes insanity. Insanity. It causes hair to grow on your palms. Yeah, isn't that weird about Kellogg? Just debilitating business.

Kellogg from Kellogg Cereal, right? Yeah, yeah. He had a thing. He was very... He hated people who masturbate? He had a thing about that. I mean, the whole thing with cornflakes. The reason cornflakes were invented was to stop boys from masturbating.

Yeah, how was the idea behind that? You explained this to us before, didn't you? Yeah, the idea is that spicy foods excite the sensibilities, and so if you eat something that tastes interesting, you're going to want to cum. So they invented, and also graham crackers. Graham was another of these big anti-masturbation evangelizers So they invent these really intentionally bland foods To give to teenage boys

You know why they like that? You know why they like to keep the teenage boys from jerking off? So that when they finger their assholes They immediately cum Exactly Exactly It's like veal keep them in the dark oh oh that's so true kellogg the guy i'm so fucking horny just anything spin your finger father just anything just touch me oh squirt

fucking mount confusion what am i gay now? Shit Yeah It's like What if your cow Could milk itself? That would be bad And it could climb fences Yeah

A cow that does yoga And can reach its own teats A cow that's so smart It realizes how fucking huge it is It can just run through that fence Anytime it wants it With shitty wooden fences they just keep cows in with.

That's unbelievable. You know how they train elephants. You see these elephants that are chained to something and the elephant could just pull it out. The way they train them is when they're babies, they chain them to something really heavy

that they can't pull. And then the elephant, for the rest of its life, is like, oh man, when that chain's on, it can't pull. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I have a friend who keeps cows. He's got, like, these grass-fed cows, and he's got his big farm, and he butchers a cow every year. And guess what? Those fucking cows know it. Oh, when the butchering's coming. They know something's going on. They don't know that they can...

He doesn't have, like, an old-schooly wooden fence. He's got, like, a real fence that could keep the cows in. But He doesn't have like an old-schooly wooden fence. He's got like a real fence that could keep the cows in. But he doesn't... What are you doing there, man? I'm taking a picture. He's drawing dicks on his pad. Of Dunkin' Doodles, man.

We have pads now. We're trying to be very sophisticated. The pads are great if you need to write something down in the middle of a show. I always wanted to have something like that there.

I've got preemptive multitasking written down here. I'm going to remember that. It might be a totally made up thing. That's how I avoid writing. Your friend's cows are paranoid, huh? Oh, dude, we went into his yard where the cows are and the cows fucking run from you.

And they run from you and this idea that people like to have of eating grass-fed meat as being totally cool. You know, like, listen, grain-fed cows, bullshit. But organic grass-fed meat, hey, those cows lived a great eating grass fed meat as being totally cool listen grain fed cows bullshit but organic grass fed meat hey those cows lived a great life guess what no they don't

they live in fear those fucking things are penned in and you don't think they know that every now and then one of them disappears did you ever read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy they had it's a futuristic there's a restaurant called the restaurant at the end of the universe and um people you could go to that restaurant and watch the universe end like somehow it was

in a time portal but they cows would come to your table and they could talk and they would suggest which parts of them you should eat like they were like oh my god that's so creepy yeah if the world keeps going the way it's going, that will eventually happen. We'll eventually bestow upon cows the ability to want to die, have no problem serving humans, give them a very simple mind, and then have them trot around on two legs and walk around on their hind feet and explain what parts of their body they want you to eat. That's it. Yeah. They don't even have to die right away, right?

They can just have amputations. So it keeps it really fresh. Yeah. That could be. That could be where you go. I it keeps it really fresh. Yeah, that could be. I feel like we're talking about the fucking military, too. There's a cartoon in the, I think it was in the New Yorker, it had a little frog

coming out of the kitchen in a restaurant, right? Coming through the door, and he's on a skateboard, and he's got the two things like this, and it says, special frog legs. Man, that's harsh. Oh, that's rough. That would be worse, though. You'd have to actually take off the pelvis.

I mean, you're not just cutting off. You're cutting off the leg at the socket for a frog leg. That's an amazing thing when you've convinced something to want to die. Yes. Like, once you've done that, you have really, like, you are in control. If you've got a being that you have convinced to die for you fuck well that would be the so powerful this sale i'm a hero yeah call him a hero cow here i'll be the sale the sale would be that these cows have no problem dying they actually want to die and they have no fear so

what we're worried about is pain and fear oh we remove their pain sensors they don't have any they don't feel any pain. They just wander around and when you take them into the back room to slaughter them, it doesn't even freak out their friends. They have an orgasm the whole way through. It's like an ecstasy trip. What about laboratory meat? Have you seen this? The growing meat in a laboratory? It's incredibly expensive. So that's got

no brain at all. Right. So the fear and the pain are removed. Probably tastes like shit and it's not as fun. Not as fun, you know? Not as fun? It's a blast. For whom? That it's fun for the person that gets to kill the animal. Well, you know, they're going to, I mean, right now, I don't know what kind of meat they're growing, but eventually they're going to grow human meat.

Oh, for sure. And the question's going to be, if you grow human meat in a lab, is it okay to eat then? Yeah, for sure that's coming, right? I feel like. Or is that cannibalism? Right. Very interesting. Because it didn't come off a human.

It just was grown. Yeah, it'll certainly be thought of as cannibalism by a lot of people. You know what's really interesting about cannibalism? Do you know what causes cannibalism? It's very interesting. Hunger. Yeah, hunger, exactly. But there are all these.

I always just thought some people, some civilizations were cannibalistic and some weren't, right? It was just like some evilness that got into some and not others randomly. But it turns out that there's a biological reason for this. He wrote about how he studied different islands in the South Pacific, some of which were cannibalistic and some of which weren't in different societies around the world. And what he found was that the societies that were cannibalistic had no domesticatable animal that didn't eat the same food as humans. In other words, you aren't going to raise dogs for meat because dogs eat the same shit that humans eat, right? You want to raise animals for meat like goats that don't eat stuff that humans eat. So they're not competing for the same original food source, right? Then it's supplementary food, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you look at the Aztecs, there was nothing in Mexico that they could raise, that they could domesticate and raise for meat that didn't eat what humans ate.

So they were protein starved. So when they were in a battle and they killed a bunch of dudes, they would eat them. Whoa. Right? Whereas the Europeans who killed just as many people, if not more, weren't eating them. Then consider that a sacrilege because in Europe you had pigs, you had goats, you had chickens, you had all these things that were easy to domesticate that humans had been living on for a long time. So it's really a historical accident.

Who's cannibalistic and who isn't? Could you imagine if you were a European settler trying to make it across the country during the days of the Native Americans, like when, you know, 1700s, 1600s, whenever they did that, and you'd after the first wave that had already gone over and basically committed genocide on many populations. And so you were the enemy. And you were trying to make it across the country without running into one of these people that might eat you.

Yeah. You mean like a wagon train kind of people? Yeah. The Comanches. Oh, yeah. I mean, the Nez Perce, apparently, according to Steve Rinella, my friend Steve Rinella is a real historian on Native American history and just the history of the colonization of this country.

But he told me these great stories about the Nez Perce Indians who were known for cannibalism. They would butcher people. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They would eat them like the same way they would eat cattle. So if they would catch people, some enemy or something like that, they would kill them and eat them.

And they made a regular habit of it. And not only that, they would play games. Like they told this one dude, they said they took all his clothes off and they let him run. And they said if you can get away, you can survive. And they killed his friend in front of him, butchered him, started eating him. And they told him that if he can get away, they're going to give him a 20-minute head start or whatever count they had. If he can get away. And the guy survived.

The guy made it to the river, went into a beaver den naked, swam up into a beaver den to hide. Yeah, naked. Was the beaver in there? It might have been. Look how bad that would suck if you get eaten by a beaver running from cannibals. A beaver just killed a person recently. I believe it. They're scary, dangerous creatures, man.

They chomp through trees. A hunter got killed by a beaver. He got bitten by a beaver in the leg and he bled out. Like, you don't realize this thing can take a fucking tree down with its face. Yes. Beavers, you don't want to get bitten by a fucking beaver. No, you don't. So this asshole climbs into this beaver den naked, okay, to get away from these Nez Perce Indians.

And then he winds up walking some, like, 100 miles or some fucking crazy shit. Almost starving to death. Just eating what he could find and kill along the way naked. Naked. Badass. Just to get the fuck away from these Nez Perce Indians who ate his friend in front of him. So that sounds more like the Iroquois. That sounds like eastern.

Look at this fucking beaver. Oh, a beaver attack. Yeah, look at that muddy little devil. Look at it. It's ready to defend its turf. It's stalking. That's weird. Jesus Christ.

Run. Is that a beaver? Yeah, that looks like a beaver. Yeah, it's got the flat tail. That's a beaver that's going to fuck you up. I mean, beavers can eat trees, man. You don't want to fuck with a beaver. And this guy was so scared of these Indians,

he climbed into the beaver's house in the water in the night. Because if you find one of these beaver dens, like Ronella showed me how to find them, when you're going down the river, you see these stacks of sticks, this weird sort of formation. He's like, that's a beaver den. And you could tell by looking at it whether or not it's used or whether it's abandoned because but this guy didn't know that shit cuz it was at nighttime So he's running down this road and just jumps into the river and finds a beaver den and just says fuck it

Let's take a chance swims up into it in the middle of the night fucking a man They're so cool beavers when you consider that how radically they change environments that they make lakes happen. That's amazing. They actually make lakes. There's a great documentary on beavers that I saw. Why do they call vaginas beavers? That's one of those things I've always kind of liked. It's the old days. It used to be fur.

So many other things have fur. Did you see that thing that they had on Vimeo recently? It's been going around the internet. How wolves change the course of rivers. Yeah, I saw that. It's amazing. You haven't seen it? No.

Oh, my God. Duncan, you've got to see this. It's incredible. Yeah. It's a piece. Play a little expert. It's Yellowstone. It's Yellowstone.

And the introduction of wolves, they've dwindled the population of deer and elk down. dwindled the population of deer and elk down. And because they've made the populations lower, the soil around rivers has gotten less erosion because more plants are growing on it, and then more rodents are surviving, more rabbits are surviving, and then more bears, and bears kill the fawns. And it changes literally because of the fact

that there's more beavers. It's changing the course of the river itself. Yeah, they're amazing. Wolves. It's amazing. They're predation. The discovery of widespread trophic cascades. A trophic cascade is an ecological process which starts at the top of the food chain

and tumbles all the way down to the bottom. Oh, that's cool. And the classic example is what happens in the Houston Mission Park in the United States when wolves were reintroduced in 1995. Now, we all know that wolves kill various species of animals, but perhaps we're slightly less aware that they give life to many others. Before the wolves turned up, they'd been absent for 70 years, that the numbers of deer, because there was nothing to hunt them,

had built up and built up in the Yellowstone Park, and despite efforts by humans to control them, they'd managed to reduce much of the vegetation there to almost nothing. They'd just grazed it away. But as soon as the wolves arrived, even though they were few in number, they started to have the most remarkable effects. First, of course, they killed some of the deer, but that wasn't the major thing. Much more significantly, they radically changed the behavior of the deer. The deer started avoiding certain parts of the park, the places

where they could be trapped most easily, particularly the valleys and the gorges. And immediately, those places started to regenerate. In some areas, the height of the trees quintupled in just six years. Their valley size quickly became

forests of aspen and willow and cottonwood. And as soon as that happened, Quinn Cooper. Look at that fucking bison. What an animal. Beavers. and beavers like wolves are ecosystem engineers. They create niches for other species and the dams they built in the rivers provided habitats for otters. This isn't even a human talking, it's a unicorn. Fish and reptiles and amphibians. You know he went to a fancy school. And he was paddled.

As a result of that, the number of rabbits and mice began to rise which meant more hawks, more weasels, more foxes, more badgers. Ravens and bald eagles came down to feed on the carrion that the wolves had left. Bears fed on it too, and their population began to rise as well, partly also because there were more berries growing on the regenerating shrubs. And the bears reinforced the impact of the wolves by killing some of the calves of the deer. But here's where it gets really interesting.

My erection began to grow with the wolves. We should probably not play all of this video because it's theirs, it's not ours. But that's a fascinating thing. And you only hear one side of that. You know, you hear that the wolves are dangerous. Right. People you only hear one side of that. You hear that the wolves are dangerous. People are scared.

The wolf population is growing. And that's the part I usually hear. But it's fascinating to hear that all this was going on as well. You know what I was thinking when we were listening to that is how much pleasure that guy was taking in his own accent. And it's something I often notice with British people and French. Not so much Spanish. And I don't notice it with Americans speaking English. Like, I never, like, get into how my voice sounds while I'm speaking the way that guy obviously was.

Right. Right. But he's a presenter. You know, he's trying to be dramatic, don't you think? He was trying to, yeah. He was like the lord of the forest or something. That guy should do every nature documentary ever. I love it.

That's what I think. His voice made me more excited. He kept calling it the Yellowstone. The berries of the Yellowstone. Well, if you know. But the British have, I mean, their accent is much more tied into identity, and I think different parts of identity

than American accents. Yeah. American accent is regional, whereas the British accents are regional but also class-based. So that guy, in speaking the way he's speaking, is telling you he went to Eton and then he went to Cambridge and his parents had lots of money

and his family's had lots of money for a long time. A British person listens to three words and knows where that guy's from, where he went to school, his whole scene. Yeah, yeah. So it's sort of like we can recognize accents from the South. Yeah, right. New York accents.

Right. All we have is regional, and we don't even have that much because we all grew up watching a lot of the same TV shows. They're still regional. There is, yeah. But if you have any friends in New York or Boston or Baltimore, Baltimore's a weird one. They've got a weird sort of half-southern thing going on down there.

But there's no, I don't think there's any equivalent in England to, like, my accent, right? You hear me talk, you don't know where I'm from. You don't know any. My parents had money,

didn't have money where I grew up, nothing, right? There's nothing like that in England. You talk, people know. That's interesting. Yeah. I like those, you know, there's linguists

who can listen to your accent. Not everybody, but apparently there's people who are trained to listen to any accent. And they can tell you within, like, 50 miles where you lived. A lot of the time. They're really good at it. Like, they can identify. They're trained to do that. They're like forensics people, you know?

Like, if you hear someone's voice, it says everything about them. That's pretty badass. There's some words that are indicators too like i lived in western pennsylvania when i was a kid for a while and there's some words i'll say like if someone's trained that way that they can pick it up like uh i hate black people like that like that you can identify where someone's from when they say that over here can you though you can't no you can't but there well no i mean there are stereotypes for that you know because there are like um there's people you know there's bigots everywhere but there is a stereotype there's a lot of stereotypes attached to like a a rebel flag on your truck says a lot you know like when you see that it says a lot because you are sort of

like when you're saying like the south will again, you are pointing to a time when slavery was okay. Hey, that's how you see it, my friend. What I see is a bunch of people that are very proud about the Southern heritage. They like that part of the country. I was raised in the South. I love that part of the country. I really do. I would like the South to rise again, minus the slavery.

So you're Neil Young and you're Leonard Skinner in this conversation. Why does that have to be included? What, the slavery? Yeah, why does it have to be included in the South? Well, because that flag, that's why everyone has a problem with that flag, because that flag indicates a war that was partially fought over keeping slaves, over the right to keep slaves. Like you wanted to keep your slaves.

And these sons of bitches up north were telling you that you couldn't do that anymore, and that's a big problem for your economy. Because you weren't just making money from the slaves working, but the slave trade itself you were making tons of money too. So therefore that flag just inherently spells racism. It doesn't have to. No, but it does though.

To me, I mean, a lot of times it just does. I mean, I'm a pretty open guy, but if I see that flag, I think racism. Well, yeah. It's like anytime people, yeah, it's a problem. It's unavoidable, right? It's unavoidable because that's what happens. It's like anytime you see the swastika, you don't think Ganesh. Exactly.

Isn't that funny? Yeah. You think Nazis. Yeah. If you try to have a swastika tattooed on your body today, you're a real piece of shit. But at one point in time, swastika was in the eastern, in many different- Tibet. Many different-

There were some Native American people. Hindu, Native Americans. Yeah. It was an old symbol. In fact, that old symbol, there's a place in somewhere in the valley, like Canoga Park or something like that. There's this really old place that was built by people from India. And there's swastikas on it. And they have a big sign there explaining.

Yeah, look at this. Ganesh with a swastika. They had a big sign there explaining what the original meaning of that symbol means. Because today, that's the symbol of hate. Yep. Which is crazy. I heard there's some movement that's trying to take the swastika out of the Nazi idea. They want to bring the symbol back somehow.

There's people who are trying to show that you can't.ler fucked up that mustache and he fucked up those two things you'll never see again he really did he was such a cunt you can't wear the same mustache as him do you think about how many people with regular mustaches were just total pieces of shit and it's okay to wear that mustache you don't get associated with that person's behavior who was some comedian had a bit about like whether there were lots of Germans named Hitler. Because now you never meet anyone whose last name is Hitler. That's probably Bill Burr. No, Hitler's descendants decided not to have kids.

There was a decision. Oh, really? Yeah, something like that, yeah. What? Interesting. I don't believe that. To end the family line? Do you guys think Hitler actually died, or do you think

you believe the idea that he went to South America? Did you hear that? That's the most recent one. The FBI saying that Hitler went to Argentina. The FBI is saying that. It's one of those internet things where people, I'm not saying that the FBI, I'm saying it's one of those internet things where someone has supposedly found a Freedom of Information

article from, you know, 1947 that shows that Hitler escaped in a fucking submarine. Like, okay. I think he might have. Why not? It's all redacted. Like, half of it's redacted. Like, look, this is it.

The fuck out of here with this. This is a piece of paper that someone put online. That's what that is. Unless I hear better, Hitler is not in fucking Argentina, you assholes. Well, not anymore. Not anymore. They's never went. Not anymore.

They found his body, didn't they? He was kind of cute at that age. Sorry, he just had the picture of Hitler. He looked a bit like, you know. He was sultry. Joe, would you have spanked him? No. I mean.

Good God. I'd have been afraid of him. Yeah, that guy fucked up a lot of things. But I don't know, man. I kind of believe he escaped. I do kind of believe those two. Why do you believe that? Well, just because it's Hitler.

So what? Because if you're Hitler... How come the walls are falling down? Yeah. How's he going to get out of there, man? How's he going to get out of there? An escape tunnel. There was no body?

No, the body, apparently the body that they found, the dental records or the body itself was not the body of a man. It was like a woman's body. There's like What? Yeah, look it up. Like the scalp. No, you look it up bitch. You're the one with the crazy story. If I look it up then it'll be

disproven. I don't want to look it up. They say that they incinerated his body or supposedly his body was set on fire and then that the bones don't match the bones of a male. And then he went to South America and lived a really good life. You really believe that?

Well, a lot of Nazis definitely did go to South America. Yeah. That's a fact. And a lot of Nazis got hired by Nassau. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Operation Paperclip. Bring him to California.

Werner Von Braun, in fact. The Simon Wiesenthal Center said that if Werner Von Braun was alive today, he'd be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. Jesus. Stop and think about that. The guy who was the head of NASA was a hardcore Nazi. They hung the five slowest workers, whether it was every day or once a week, whatever it was. They would hang them in front of their rocket factory in Berlin. They would just take the five slowest workers and hang them.

factory in Berlin. They would just take the five slowest workers and hang them. And one of the guys, there was a documentary that this guy did on the moon landings, and he started interviewing people that were in the concentration camps that knew, like, had seen Wernher von Braun walk in, had seen all these different, like, high-level

Nazi scientists walk in. There's the rocket factories. Wernher von Braun's rocket factories used Jewish slaves and murdered them. So, I mean, he's a fucking, he was a monster, and he was the head of NASA. Jesus. Yeah, he was a real monster. I mean, and people try to sugarcoat that because of the fact the guy did amazing things with rocketry.

But, you know, it's, well, it wasn't his idea. Well, you got to understand that, please. They hung the five slowest fucking people in front of his rocket factory in Berlin and then the United States took them aboard. That tendency to sugarcoat murder is so fucked up and it happens all the time and it's really an odd thing when you see... It's a black and white thing.

People want someone to be good or evil. They don't want someone to be evil and also amazing because that's too fucked up. If you're good or you're bad, that's why they sugarcoat. And that's why they defend. I mean, I've heard someone, there was a recent thing where someone was talking about this guy who had done a bunch of fucked up shit and lied about a bunch of things. And his friends were saying, yeah, but what about this? He did this.

They were saying all these positive things that he did. I'm like, that doesn't matter. He still did those other things. It doesn't make those other things non-existent. If you're doing something fucked up, you're cheating people, you're lying, whatever you're doing, you're fucking people over, you're doing something evil to people. If you're also doing something good, it doesn't mean you didn't do the evil thing.

They don't go away. And vice versa. Vice versa as well. good it doesn't mean you didn't do the evil thing right they don't they don't go away like and vice versa vice versa as well right i mean we there's some saying we we judge our heroes by their finest moment and our criminals by their worst yes you know so you're a great guy you fuck up you do one thing you know you whatever and that's how we judge you for the rest of your life yeah i've met some people that have committed some you know fucked up crimes and they turned out to be really good people like joey diaz is a perfect example. If you look at Joey Diaz on paper, he went to jail for armed kidnapping of a drug deal with a machine gun.

I mean he did some crazy fucking shit. But if you know Joey Diaz as a human being, he's one of the sweetest guys you'll ever meet in your life. He's so friendly. He's so funny. I mean every time the phone rings and it's Joey, I get excited to talk to him. Yeah. If you just looked at him on that instance of his life in a cocaine-fueled rage, kidnap some guy, you would think he's a terrible person. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a strange thing, isn't it? When somebody gets convicted of something that they did and then they've done like 20 years in prison and and they're probably different they probably change but they have to stay in there for their entire lives a lot of young men did you i don't know if you guys if we talked about this but a couple weeks ago i interviewed a guy named bruce lisker for my podcast who was in prison in california san quentin for a lot of it for 26 and a half years for killing his mother when he was 17 which he did not do and man he is amazing he's an amazing dude he's like he is so not bitter it's unbelievable and i asked him at the beginning of the podcast i was like dude when i when you know i thought when i

met you that i would be sitting next to a ticking time bomb of a guy like explosive with rage, you know, and you're so chilled out. What I feel like I'm sitting here with Mandela. And he said they tried to destroy my life for 26 and a half years. I'm not going to finish the job for them. Wow. Cool. He's a great guy. He's right near here.

If either of you want to meet him, he's a wonderful dude. Man, I love that attitude because that attitude is saying, fuck you to your past. And it's like, you know, because you meet people who are rationalizing being an asshole from their past. You know, they have this story they keep telling about their shitty family, their abusive parents, their awful whatever it is. And you have empathy for them. But simultaneously, you realize how they're recreating that story every time they bring it up, every time they talk about this awful thing that happened to them. It's like in Buddhism, it's compared to like making a necklace, like beating a necklace. And every moment you're sort of recreating yourself again and again and again.

And when people have experiences like that and they're like, no, I'm'm not gonna let that be the anchor that pulls me down into a negative life i can reinvent myself in this very moment right now yeah regardless of whatever happened to me regardless of my past that's all gone it's really cool and he said uh he said like really who knows where i would be right now if this hadn't happened. Right. Maybe I'd be dead. Maybe I would have had a car accident. Maybe, you know, something else would have happened to me that there's no way to predict it. So the fact that I'm here now is unavoidably a good thing. I'm here. I'm intact. You know, and his his experience of prison was very moving and not really what i was expecting like he said the

you know sexual abuse and that sort of thing was not an issue for him uh and uh fighting like four or five times he had to like stand up to someone and he said he got i think if i remember correctly he said like he got his ass kicked but he had to establish that he there was a limit you couldn't push him past that was the main thing but he's a cool guy and and uh yeah the way i met him was that what happened was his father died his father never believed that he killed his mother and in fact the way he got into it was so fucked up he's 17 he goes in the detective who was running the investigation just had a bug up his ass and decided he did it and would not be swayed from that conclusion. And but but there was like there was no evidence that the evidence was manufactured, fucked around anyway. So what they told him was plead out. And they said, like, you're 17. You say you did it.

You'll do juvie for a year or two, then you'll do like one or two years, you know, in a medium security and you're out, right? So he took the advice, his father encouraged him to take the advice from the lawyer, he pleaded guilty, went in, and then he started getting interviewed by psychiatrists, prison psychiatrists, right? And they kept reporting that he wasn't showing remorse. Well, of course he's not showing rem remorse he didn't do it right right so this this charade that he was supposed that he could just sign the paper and go in for a few years and be out was bullshit because he had to go through 100 and actually act as if he had done it and he was so remorseful and crying and oh my god and he couldn't do that because the guy's got some fucking integrity right so that's why he was in for 26 and a half years oh my god yeah and so his father died and and he

used he left some some money 15 grand or something and he used that money to hire a private detective to go back and sort of re-figure look at the evidence again this guy did ran blew through the money but the detective by the time the money was, like, convinced that this was all bullshit. So he was like, fuck it, I'm doing it pro bono. And he kept going at it, and then he got a couple of guys from the L.A. Times to write about the case. And my aunt saw the article and sent $100 to the, like, fund to help him, and they became friends. And that's how I got to know him. Wow.

Cool. That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. the like fund to help him and they became friends and that's how i got to know him wow cool that's incredible yeah but it's incredible so what happens when a prosecutor does something evil like that is that guy criminally responsible now no the the detective well not the prosecutor whoever was because the the prosecutor is relying on the evidence presented by the police so the detective so the detective was the one who set him up, who lied about the evidence, who then, here's the kicker, as Bruce said, the or probation, I don't know which it is. This guy would come to the hearing and you talk about how terrible he was, how evil he was and blah, blah, blah. He came to a hearing like 25 years into it. And he said, not only is this guy definitely guilty, but I have found more evidence now, 25 years later, because there was money missing from the mother.

And so one of the ideas was the motive was to rob his mother of a couple hundred dollars. And this detective said, I went back and I got into the house, you know, new owners and all that. And they claimed that they had found the money in the crawl space in this kid's former bedroom. Right. So, you know, now the case is even stronger than it was 25 years ago uh denied bomb that this detective goes back interviews all the people who had owned the house and they all said we never called the police we never found any money i have no idea what that guy's talking about the detective just made that shit up wow Wow. And that was his misstep. And that's what eventually got Bruce out. Then the PI went in and he's like,

interviews everyone, like, oh, this is, you know, 100% sure this guy manufactured that evidence. Well, he must have done that more than once. Exactly. Exactly. And this was one of his first cases in a 25-year career.

Oh, my God. So the guy's entire career was just setting people up and treating them like a commodity. Nobody knows. And you know why nobody knows? Because the LAPD is not investigating. They're not opening up his cases. They're not going back and looking at this.

What? Yeah, it's a fucked up thing, man. So this guy, I mean, listen to the podcast. If anyone who's interested, it's on my podcast, Tangentially Speaking. It's like two or three episodes back. Bruce Lisker. He tells the whole story.

What the fuck, man? It's fucked up. This cop is retired with full benefits. Oh, my God. How is that possible? That's a criminal. They did an internal investigation. Oh, my God.

They have a year to turn in the results right this guy from internal affairs who's an honorable cop did the investigation found that this case was definitely a setup right only looking at this one case right definitely a setup complete bullshit manufactured evidence etc a couple weeks before the year was over and the report would be officially filed his superiors took him off the case and squashed it. Oh, my God. No report was ever filed. Jesus. Oh, my God.

Right. And the cop who led that investigation, I said to him, Bruce, like, have you been in touch with this guy? Like, how's his career going? He said he's shunned by the police. So he's still working, but he's like, nobody's, you know, pals with him.

What the fuck? Yeah. It's, you know? It's that culture. It's that culture of shunning rats. Culture of going after the people that investigate. But if those people didn't investigate, look what happened

in Miami. You ever see the movie Cocaine Cowboys? Documentary about Miami? Miami was so crazy. At one point in time the entire police graduating squad of you know the whatever the academy the police academy graduating class the entire group was either arrested for corruption or murdered wow is this when don johnson was on the force no no this is i mean i guess probably like it was about that era. It was the 1980s.

And the stories that they tell are fucking unbelievable. Cocaine Cowboys and Cocaine Cowboys 2 are some of the best fucking documentaries ever. Miami has more banks per capita than anywhere else in the country. That's hilarious. It's all cocaine money. Right. That's what built that country or that part of it. It really should be a country. Miami's wild. It's really like a country or that part of it. It really should be a country. Miami's wild.

It's really like a country, like a different country. And all those Cubans, all those pissed off Cubans. Yeah, pissed off at Castro. And he's right over there, 90 miles away across the ocean. It's one of these things, man. When you watch cops and you realize what you're actually watching is just people getting arrested for something that shouldn't be illegal, it's really hard to enjoy it anymore. Like a victorious cop who's found some drugs on a person and then acts like he's doing some heroic thing. It's like, what are you doing?

You're just chaining up a skinny guy who wanted to feel good, man. You're not being a hero right now. This is just a guy who wanted to know what it felt like to be God for a few hours, and you're fucking slapping cuffs on him? These people are getting arrested when you see them mostly. They're the least dangerous-looking people on Earth. And then when you add to that the fact that these motherfuckers are putting fake evidence in there sometimes. Did you hear about this case where there are undercover cops in a high school pretending to be friends for a whole semester?

And then they bust some guys because they got them weed? Yeah. Well, that happened with a woman, a 25-year-old woman in Florida. She was a beautiful woman, and she seduced a 17-year-old boy. Honor student. Yeah, honor student. Get her some weed. And now the kid has a felony on his record.

Yeah. So you can never run for office. There's a lot of things you can never do. It's so predatory and terrible. I mean, it's like if there was a – maybe there's not enough illegal stuff out there, so they have to make stuff up because there are not enough bad people. That's the problem.

No, no, no, no, no. It's certainly not that. There's plenty of bad people. They just don't want to have to find them. You go to find bad people, you have to deal with dangerous situations. If you could just coerce some 17-year-old boy to sell you weed and then lock him in a cage and you still get that little check on your win column, you're happy to do it because it perverts what the action is. The noble law enforcement officer, the noble soldier, those are really important aspects of any society that wants to stay safe because we don't have perfect humans yet. We don't have a perfect race.

We don't have a perfect culture. So what you're dealing with is just an organism that is following the rules and they subvert and pervert these rules in order to be successful. Yeah. The same way people cheat on their SATs. The same way people take steroids and get caught in the Olympics. The same way, you know, all these different things that people do that they're not supposed to do, but they do because they just want to win more than they want anything else.

Yeah, this is a very American thing, too. You know, I live in Spain for 22 years, right? Spanish cops and American cops, completely different. Now, they're different for cultural reasons having to do with the military, I think, first of all. I think a lot of American cops are ex-military. They come back. There are no jobs. Best job opportunities are in law enforcement. They're already accustomed to the sort of discipline and the uniform and the weapons and all that kind of stuff. So they've got, a lot of them are suffering from PTSD, and they've got a very us versus them attitude from the military.

They've served in Afghanistan, Iraq, whatever. They come back and they've got that same attitude in L.A. or in Petaluma or wherever the fuck they're working. So that's a problem. The other issue is the legal system. The American legal system is based, as you were just pointing out, on rules, right? If you break the rule, that's illegal. European legal system is a different, the trigger is not that you broke the rule.

The trigger is that somebody complained, that you bothered somebody. So there are no Spanish cops flying over the city with infrared cameras on helicopters looking for grow rooms. They're just not doing it. Because unless someone complains, they don't give a shit.

It's the same thing with parking. It's like if you're blocking traffic, they'll give you a ticket. If you're just parking in an area where the thing says from 3 to 6 and not from 4 to 2 or whatever it is, they don't give a fuck. I mean, I've experienced it directly with them

where I'm parking my motorcycle and there's this big long line of motorcycles on the Ramblas in the pedestrian area of the Ramblas in Barcelona. And I go to this cop and I know you're not allowed to park there, but there are like 15 motorcycles. And the cop's standing there. I say to him, can I park here or what? And he's like, no, but normally, you know, we won't do anything. He's like, that's a cop. That's definitely a better way of doing it.

So much better. Than what we're doing over here. Yeah. won't do anything it's like that's a cop that's a definitely a better way of doing it so much better we're doing over here yeah it's just the if you're a judge and you've put someone in jail for their entire lives for a drug how do you sleep at night well minimum mandatory sentencing the judges can't even decide right under the reagan administration they pass these laws saying well if you've got you know know, one to four ounces of marijuana, you know, that's five years. Doesn't matter who you are. Well, you shouldn't be a judge. Don't be a judge.

A lot of judges resigned. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. A lot of judges resigned because of that. Because they said, what am I doing? All I'm doing, it's a table. I'm not making any decisions. Well, how about that guy in Pennsylvania that was purposely locking kids up to get paid? Holy shit.

He was getting paid. He was getting payoffs. And so he was putting kids in detention centers, juvenile detention centers, when they were young. They were like teenagers, taking them away from their mothers and getting them raped, getting them beat up, putting them in with all these abused kids. Some of them were committing suicide. It's so crazy. That guy ruined lives and did it for money. And he just got locked in a cage.

Every one of those kids, every one of those kids that he sentenced should get, as an adult, a day to beat the fuck out of them. There should be a tag. You pull a tag like you're hunting deer. Because there's thousands of kids that should get to beat the fuck out of this guy. And what you hope is you get a really early hunting season. At least piss on them kids that should get a beat the fuck out of this guy. And what you hope is you get a really early hunting season. At least piss on him or something. No, beat the fuck out of him. Yeah, don't let him have fun.

Almost beat him to death. Sentenced to 28 years for selling kids to the prison system. Look at that. Look at that. Look at that. 28 fucking years. Look at that piece of shit. I would love to plant some knuckles on that guy's face.

If I was a kid, especially, that this guy put away, I would love to beat the knuckles on that guy's face. If I was a kid, especially, that this guy put away, I would love to beat the shit out of that guy. He should be beaten to death by every kid that he did that to. Fuck that guy. When you start realizing that the criminals have done the exact same thing that pedophiles do, like, pedophiles, they will get jobs working at schools because they want to be around kids all the time.

They're predatory and they do that. In the same way, criminals, the really smart criminals, they recognize that the best place to be if you're a criminal is in the legal system working there. That's the best place to be. If you're a judge and a criminal, you're fucking set, man. You're a judge. If you're a criminal and you're a senator, if you're a criminal and you're fucking set, man. You're a judge. If you're a criminal and you're a senator, if you're a criminal and you're in the government,

that's where the top creme de la creme of the criminals go to the fucking legal system and into the government because that's where they have the most power and are the least likely to get busted. The dumb criminals are the ones who stay on the other side of the law. The smart criminals are the ones who infiltrate, get in there, and then start exploiting people in the exact same way. And then they don't get arrested. They arrest. That's where it's fucked up.

Because let's face it. In the laws of the land, it is not criminal to put a skinny guy in handcuffs, take away his house, throw him in jail, ruin his life. In this land, it's not legal. It's not criminal. But in the law, in a greater truth, it's a criminal act. In the same way that in Nazi Germany, it wasn't criminal to incinerate Jews. You could do that. But from history's perspective, it was an atrocity.

So in the same way, it's an atrocity in a very small scale if you're destroying people's lives over nothing i know we've talked about this a million times and i don't know if there's even much you could do except shake your fist at some monolithic power that seems to have infiltrated everything and hope for the best but god damn it man aren't you a little terrified that one day you'll end up with fucking ankle manacles on wearing that bright safety orange thing as you get sucked through that satanic maze of lawyers and eventually just land in a tiny little cell? That can happen. It certainly can, especially if you do something that threatens some other powerful organization. You know, if you want to sell some sort of a drug that's not sanctioned,

it might interfere with the selling of another drug. When they fucked up is when they made it legal to have private prisons. They fucked up when they turned opening a prison to a business. That is just a mess. When they did that, man, not just private contractors to build a prison, but private prisons themselves that don't have to give you access. They don't have to let you look around. Like Louis Theroux was on the podcast from England, the BBC show.

Yeah, I saw that. And he was talking about private prisons not being able to, you can't even get in there. They wouldn't let them in. You can't film in there. Public prisons, you're way better off, apparently. Definitely. Private prisons, you're essentially being used as a battery, you know?

A human battery to generate money. And what do you call it when corporate power and governmental power fuse? Satan. Fascism. Yeah. Fascism. Brings us right back around to where we started. Yeah. Corporate government interfusion is fascism.

That's what it fucking is, and that's where we're going. Yeah. Corporate government interfusion is fascism. That's what it fucking is, and that's where we're going. Yeah. That's it. Because you're right. Because once it's privatized, then you get that shit in Pennsylvania. Yeah. Because part of the contracts, I don't know if you've seen these, the contracts guarantee an occupancy rate of 98 to 99 whatever percent.

It's in the contract. Yeah. That the state signs when they... So, like, well, you know if if we don't have enough people in the prison we pay penalties we do that blah blah so it makes business sense to make sure that you have that occupancy rate i mean once you do that then it's not about people anymore it's about corporate power oh it's so dark that is a fucking dark that is always the big philosophical question like what if everyone in the world decided to no longer break the law?

What would they do? What would they do if everyone drove the speed limit just for a day? If everyone in Los Angeles drove the speed limit for a month, nobody ever made a single traffic violation, what would they do? If they have a quota, what is that quota based on? Is it based on a zero-sum evolutionary point? There's no way we're going to ever evolve past this, so we'll never stop speeding.

We'll never stop crashing into each other. It's like banking on complete failure. Banking on no growth. Because if there's growth, what are you going to adjust? You're going to say, well, I guess we can't rely on speeding tickets anymore because people don't speed? The fuck?

That's like a $50 million a month bill that the city gets. They're not going to fucking change that. Fuck you. Google cars. What's going to happen when all the cars are self-driving? Who's going to get tickets? There's going to be no sexiness anymore. Well, you could fucking the back. What do you mean no sexiness?

Roll by. You fuck in the back seat when you're going up the five, man. Half the thing is wrong there. You shouldn't be in the back seat. you're going up the five, man. Half the thing is wrong there. You shouldn't be in the back seat. You should be driving like a man. First of all, you should hear an engine that's fucking up the environment. It's half the fun. That's the yin and the yang.

The ones that fuck up the environment the most are the sexiest. They smell like gas when you hit the fucking gas. You smell it. It's overflow when you let off. It's so fun. Man, it is cool, though, how we are moving in the direction of being able to just perpetually put ourselves on autopilot.

Because you know how they have those new cyber suits that you can put on and lift really heavy things? You know they're going to make miniature cyber suits where you can have them walk your body around so you don't even have to walk. You can put yourself on autopilot. You can press a button on your suit and it gets you out of bed and like walks you into the kitchen bathroom. It's the atrophy of the body.

Brushes your teeth for you. Yeah. We have a real problem with overpopulation too. We do in this area, meaning overpopulation in certain areas. There's a few spots in the country where it's just like you can't have this many people shoved in together. It's just not wise. It's not sustainable. I mean, you're keeping it up right now on red line.

If it stops raining, we're fucked. If the gas flow stops and you can't run trucks that carry vegetables, we're fucked. The trucks also bring in meat. The water has to be pumped from Colorado. There's an earthquake. Oh, yeah. I mean, you got it all in one place.

There's so many things that could go wrong, and one of the big ones is that we're all congested into this one area. It's like a giant game of musical chairs. Like, everybody knows the music is going to stop, and you're going to be fucked most likely, not have a seat. But everybody's like, fuck it, fuck it.

Let's just keep going. Man, I was talking to this guy the other night, and I was saying, I don't know if I'm going to have kids. And I'm starting to feel happier and happier about that. And he looks at me, and he's like, that is a very selfish perspective to have. He just likes saying that to you. It's the opposite of selfish. He's not even thinking about that.

I'm like, what the fuck are you saying, man? I guarantee you that guy's not even thinking that. What he's doing is being a parrot. That's selfish. You're a selfish person. I get to squawk at you. Oh, Duncan, you don't even mind your own children. I'm moral high ground above you. I love children.

In fact, more than I love anything in this world. So fuck you, Duncan. He was attaching it to like how by not having kids, you're somehow not contributing to society somehow. And he really thought he knew what he was talking about. And I quoted that Jack Kerouac quote where he said, To have a child is to damn a being to death. Have you ever... You know?

That's true. Every time you have a baby, You're giving something the death penalty It's a gross thing that people do Where they claim moral high ground because they're breeding I hated it when I was not a father And now that I'm a father I still hate it It's stupid You don't have to have children

You just have to be cool If you want people to like you You don't have to have a fucking baby Just be a nice person and people will like you be a nice person you'll have a positive impact in this life you don't it doesn't like make you or break you whether or not you reproduce it just doesn't right it can enhance your life like many experiences it certainly has enhanced mind but you don't have to do it I've met some amazing people that have never

had kids and don't want kids and they're still great to be around. I love them. There's nothing wrong with that. But there's so many people that when they get locked into something, whatever it is, it's the way to go. If you're not going that way, you're fucking selfish. No, Duncan, you don't even want to take care of a baby. I don't. But you have a little dog, don't you? And I don't want to take care of that. I can't take care of a fucking baby. I'm just kidding. I love my little fuck. I like cats.

I always say, man, when they invent a baby that knows to shit in this little sandbox from birth, I'll get a baby. And if they're furry and cute. Other than that, I mean, the only reasons I'm ever slightly regretful about the fact that I'll never have kids are selfish reasons. See, I'm not thinking for the kid. I'm thinking like, well, you know, I'll never have that experience of this. I'll never have that experience of that. I'll never, you know, my little girl lying on my, you know, back while we read. Like, I'll never have those experiences.

But that's all about me. Right. You know, as far as it's neutral. You bring a kid in. You don't bring a kid in. Whatever. That's a wash, right? Yeah.

And obviously for the planet, it's a hugely destructive thing to have a child, especially an American child. See, I don't buy that. This is why I don't buy that. Because every one that I know that's awesome is a person. The idea that a hugely destructive thing is bringing a person into this life. You're going to bring, if you create a good person, what you're going to do is you're bringing a person into this life you're gonna bring if you create a good person what you're gonna do is you're gonna bring into this world someone who's gonna interact with countless people in their life and most likely have a good personality and shed a good example of what a human being can be that's the potential of having a person yeah but they're

still gonna use a lot of resources so what what are we gonna What happens to the world? How about we all kill ourselves? We don't have to worry about the world. How about we kill ourselves for the world? This poor world is choking on our bullshit and sewage. Let's kill ourselves. You're the guy who was just bitching about overpopulation. That's why we're here. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, no, no. Don't get me wrong. I'm not playing both sides of the fence. We're here. This is what I'm saying. I'm saying we're here. We should just enjoy the fact that we're here. But our unborn children aren't here.

Don't worry about bringing kids into the world. We're going to bring kids into the world. We're going to keep breeding. What we should do is try to figure out how to be sustainable. We're not going to keep breeding. You say you won't, but one day a rent, errant load. Dude, I'm 52 years old. Errant load.

An errant load. You can get the guy who was the president whose children are still alive today had kids when he was like 60-something. Man, I've got one ball. I'm almost 40. I've taken acid almost my entire life. My sperm look like Tibetan perfume. Acid does not affect the sperm. Your one ball survived cancer.

The other ball gave up, tapped out. Exactly. This ball's a super ball. Survivor. It's the survivor. Fuck you. I'm cancer-free, bitch. You could have easily gotten cancer in both balls.

By the way, I'm not saying I'll never. I mean, I don gotten cancer in both balls by the way I'm not saying I'll never I don't know if I'll have kids I'm not saying don't have kids I just find it interesting how people really do think you should have a kid I think you're right man the idea is if you feel like having a child have a child

what's that saying? only have a kid if you can't live without a kid if you just have to have a child. Have a child and then raise her. You know, somebody had Gandhi. Somebody spit out Tesla. Or not. But it's true.

Or not. It's either one is fine. Life is about us interacting with each other. Not just interacting with babies. Not just interacting with people that are genetically related to you. Interacting with all of us. And if you can contribute in any way. There's a lot of people that are great parents that contribute to this world by being a great parent by raising someone who's going to influence other people

and a lot of them don't necessarily get too much credit for that but i think it's like like you get credit for making a great painting and being a fucking complete schizophrenic outside of that yeah and everybody's like oh he's a brilliant. But you don't get credit for raising a human being and developing the personality of a human being or assisting in the development of a person's perceptions and views of the world. That's an incredible resource. And the idea that every one of them is just fucking up the world,

whatever. The world's fucked, period. It's 2014, all right? The direction that we're going in is fucked. It's all fucked're, we're, we're, 2014, alright? The, the, the direction that we're going in is fucked, alright? Wait, what do you think? It's all fucked.

There's too many of us. There's too much pollution. It's not changing. There's no, there's, the global warming is happening, whether you like it or not, whether you blame it

on Democratic vagina sponsors, whatever the, whatever you do, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Live. Just live. Be alive.

The, the justifications of having a baby or not having a baby, all of them are bullshit. They're all bullshit. Just be nice. Just live. Be alive. The justifications of having a baby or not having a baby, all of them are bullshit. They're all bullshit. Just be nice. Just do it. Live your life and be nice. You don't buy it, huh?

Joe Rogan is Nelson Mandela. Wait, you don't buy it. Most people don't know what we're talking about. I know, I know. We played it before the show. Yeah, I saw a thing the other night I was watching. Sorry to interrupt you, Duncan. I wasn't interrupting, I was asking you. No, he was asking you a question.

You were asking me if I buy what. You don't buy his, that you are one, you're a person, I'm guessing, whose opinion is don't, you should, as an environmentalist, not have kids. Well, I mean, look, I, my whole worldview is layered, right? It's like there's an optimist inside a pessimist surrounded by an optimist.

It's like atmospheric layers. So essentially, I agree with Joe that who gives a shit, it's fucked. That's the optimism, right? But within that, I don't know if that sounds like optimism. That's what it is because it's like, well, if it's fucked, then I don't need to worry, right? So I can be optimistic and happy. if it's fucked then i don't need to worry right so i can be optimistic and happy but within that there is the sense that okay look we are uh uh a scourge on the planet we're sucking up the resources spewing out toxins destroying everything and some of us do that at a higher rate than

others americans at a higher rate than anyone right we create more carbon more plastic more everything use more energy so having an american baby from an environmental point of view is not a good thing for the trajectory of the planet now within joe's context it's all fucked anyway the trajectory is going over a cliff so have a good time you know the only thing that's going to help that trajectory on both levels the only thing that's going to help that is human innovations at this point in time the the momentum of creating things is so out of control that the only thing that's going to help that is human innovations. At this point in time, the momentum of creating things is so out of control that the only thing that's going to be able to put a halt to it is a human being

that's really smart, that figures out how to do it sustainably. A human being that figures out what one, or a series, or a group, or a movement, that figures out how to engineer society the same way we've engineered many other aspects of our society or our world that make us able to walk down the street and not worry about getting eaten by a lion.

So engineers should have babies. Also, I don't know how helpful it is to think of – I mean, I know what you mean. We're fucked and all that language, but – But we're not. I don't think we are, and I think we're – like getting in that trap of thinking of our species as a plague on the planet. If you think of the species as a plague on the planet if you think of the species as a plague then you're basically saying well i too am a plague right then i am the cancer i'm walking i'm a living parasite and if you think you're a living parasite then that means you're going to

start acting like a parasite because why wouldn't you you're a parasite so i think it's the language is weird because you're saying nature is malfunctioning right now. You're saying this planet is a malfunctioning planet. Nature's gone wrong. Look at terrible nature. It made all these little humans and they're ruining the earth. But it's like, how dare you say nature's fucking up? It's nature.

You're a piece of it. You know, you're a tiny little piece. It's like a little droplet of water in a river being like, this is an evil river. It's tearing up the shore. Look what it's done. Okay. So by that logic, how dare you, you know, get chemotherapy for cancer? You know, it's part of the whole, it's your organism having, you know, it's mutations that just happen. I think the mutations of cancer are similar to the mutation that's happened to our species, where it's a thing that grows out of control and threatens to destroy the host. Well, first of all, let me just say, when I said how dare you, I don't really mean how dare you. No, I know. I'm just following the logic.

And number two, as far as getting chemotherapy, which I didn't get, but if you do have cancer and you get chemotherapy, what you're doing is healing yourself you know so that's why you do it you get chemotherapy interfering with the flow of nature well i i think the flow of nature is healing like that's nature is regenerative and heals are a part of it you get to decide what part you want so then i believe that by reducing human population to the very very small level where it's not impacting the planet, that's the natural healing process of the planet. Well, no, it's nature. It's your nature to think that. Just like it's the nature of someone who is afraid to die to figure out a way to survive. The nature of a person who's worried about their finite existence creating immortality is also natural. All of it's natural.

The human curiosity itself is natural. Human innovation, human imagination, all those things are natural. So we just live in a much more complex world that we've created because we've created all these other variables within our nature that we don't like to think of as natural. But really, plastic is fucking natural. It comes out of people. They pull it out of the ground. Exactly.

It's not like we make it in a fucking portal. We zap it out of the multiverse and print it up with a 3D printer. No, we're fucking taking things out of the earth and we make it. a fucking portal. We zap it out of the multiverse and print it up with a 3D printer. No, we're fucking taking things out of the earth and we make it. Everything's natural. Every fucking component of the universe that we can measure is in fact natural. Black holes are natural. The word natural is a shit word because everything's fucking natural.

It's a redundant word every time you use it. The whole world is natural. Even plastic. I think unnatural is a shit word man-made is what you should call man-made man man created and that's also by the way nature just like a fucking beehive's nature i just don't want nature i don't want to shuffle around feeling like i'm a goddamn crab lice chewing through the planet earth you know you are but you're not to me you're not to each other we're not to each other. We're not to each other.

But, you know, I mean, how many people do you know that claim to be conscious and then they throw a cigarette out the window and you watch them do it? Now I notice that because I've seen you. If you want Joe to attack you, throw a cigarette down in front of him because every time it's like a— The woods, man. Yeah. The guy that did it in the woods.

Yeah. Supposed Sasquatch hunter. No, that is true. When you see somebody who's like, when you watch them throw the cigarette down, and it is an odd moment where you're like, what is that? I never noticed it before because I never really just thought about it. Well, that guy, we were in Utah for the sci-fi show. And this guy, we flew in.

We had a great time together. We flew in. We drove through Utah in the summer. It was so beautiful. Unbelievably green and lush. Utah is fucking beautiful, man. It's such a northern Utah. Wow.

Yeah, it was about two hours drive. And we get all the way there, and the guy within five minutes, he's smoking cigarettes. He smells like gin. Does his gin smell like you think? I don't know. Some alcohol. And he's telling us about how he met Bigfoot the first time he went looking. He found a bulletproof wolf that appeared out of the mist.

And I'm like, oh, shit. So then the guy, he doesn't have a cigarette on him anymore. We're in the fucking woods, man. And I'm like, where's your cigarette, man? And he threw it on the ground. He just stepped on it on the ground. I was like, come on, man. The fuck are you doing?

Was it a filter or unfiltered? Yeah, filter. Filters don't biodegrade. Well, even unfiltered. Come on, man. I don't want to walk through this. Unfiltered in like two days, it'll be gone. It's paper.

You know, I don't want to see it. It's garbage. If it stays for a week, it's annoying for a week. It's annoying for zero amount of time if you take it and you put it in your pocket. It's a creep move. It's a creepy, selfish move. The one people throw them out the window of their car when they're driving on the highway. That's a creepy, selfish person.

Because if you had any awareness at all, the last thing you do is throw a fucking cigarette out the window, especially in California, where that's responsible for what percentage of the fires that happen out here. Right. I mean, a lot of them are from people throwing cigarettes out the window. You guys ever read Edward Abbey? Nope. Desert Solitaire. He was a famous, probably the most them are from people throwing cigarettes. You guys ever read Edward Abbey? Nope. Desert Solitaire.

He was a famous, probably the most famous author who lived in Utah. He lived down in the southeast around Moab, which is all red rock and arches. And it's fucking beautiful. Completely different from where you guys were. But if you ever go back, go down there. It's like amazing. That's where those dudes like swing through the arches and stuff, doing all that crazy shit. Well, that's where that asshole Boy Scout guy got arrested for pushing over one of those rocks.

Oh, yeah, exactly. That's where they were. Idiots. Idiots and filming. Good idea. It had been there for millions of years. Anyway, Edward Abbey's this funny cantankerous, kind of like, who were we talking about earlier? Gonzo, Hunter S. Thompson, kind of that kind of character.

Who were we talking about earlier? The gonzo, Hunter S. Thompson, kind of that kind of character, right? And he wrote this book where he was cruising down the highway throwing cans of beer out the window. Like he'd finish the beer and throw it out the window. And he was very popular among environmentalists. In fact, Earth First, that movement started based on one of his books called The Monkey Wrench Gang. But anyway, Edward Abbey was like, fuck it. The beer can's not the litter. The highway's the litter.

Don't build the fucking roads, right? The garbage is already here. So, I mean, it's an interesting kind of twist. That's a justification if I ever heard one. What a douchebag throwing cans out the window and saying the road shouldn't be there. Fuck you. Fuck you, you pretentious asshole. I mean, he's making the point.

I don't know. Read his book. Read his book. Fuck him and his fucking cans. You know about Earth First. Cans flying out the window. That guy's a douchebag. All right.

Without having read a word of his work, I might add. He's a tin can throwing asshole. I told you one thing that would get under your skin. That's a bad thing, man. You guys know about Earth First, though? Right. But what we're doing is basically highlighting what we talked about earlier, is that someone can be a cunt and also be really awesome at something.

Yeah. And that's what it is. And you're defending him, but you can't defend him. He's a cunt. No. Wrong. The guy's throwing. See?

You're doing it. You can't even help yourself. And you know why you're wrong? Because we don't even know that. Wrong. They set you up. We don't even know that he actually did it. This is a book.

Okay. So he wrote a book where he may have just said he did it as a way to make a point. But by saying he did it, now he's giving permission to all these other people to throw tin cans out the road, and the next thing you know, we've got a, it's raining tin cans out of every asshole's fucking diesel car. It's the handful that ruined

it for the rest of us. It's more of a cunt move to pretend that you did it and not really have done it, thereby green-lighting actual cunts. I'm throwing cans out. I'm an environmentalist. But you're like, no, he drove really good. He was awesome.

Here's a guy who gets, what, 12 miles per gallon in your muscle car? No, wait a minute. No, my car is a six-cylinder. But also, Joe's never claimed to be an environmentalist. That's the difference. Why are you claiming that you understand how muscle cars work? I don't have a muscle car. I have a 911. It's a very light car.

Because you were saying earlier, like, with the muscle cars, and you've got to hear the burn in the fuel. I don't drive one of those. You don't drive one. No. So you're just like Edward Abbey. You're just throwing out this bullshit, giving permission to muscle car owners. I have a different kind of muscle car.

I have a different kind, but the kind that I have is not like that. It doesn't eat up a lot of gas. Here's where I take issue with Edward Abbey saying that the goddamn street is wrong. It's already trash. Fuck you, Edward Abbey. I like driving on concrete. It's fun.

I like the roads. He's on it. He's using it like the i like the roads he's on it he's on it he's using it yeah i just think that that the moment you start saying like no this thing itself is the corruption you're the corruption abby how about that like just deal with your own self i think that's what it comes down to deal with the fucking pollution inside of you you know that's got to be it deal with with what's going on in the tiny little acreage of nature that you are. That's it. First start in there.

And then before you're looking at roads and deciding that roads are evil or whatever, first start in there. I'm talking to myself. I wag on my finger at just about everything and call it evil. So I'm a hypocrite in that. But I do think that the more you can pull your tentacles out of the world with all your tentacles pointing at this is bad and that's bad and that's bad and bring it back into you and see if you can find peace in there. Find tranquility in there. If you can find equilibrium

in yourself, you're probably going to stop doing a lot of the things that are causing pollution in the world, I bet. Maybe not, but I would bet that if you could find a way to find stability and peace, you're going to treat people better. You're not going to be so inclined to do selfish things. When you're happy, you oftentimes become less selfish. Don't believe me? Chomp on some fucking ecstasy. Eat some really gooddma and then see how you start acting and you're seeing the way you act when you're in a bliss state and generally what do you do when you're on ecstasy how often do you hear yeah man i got on ecstasy and then got in a fucking bar fight i just felt like beating the shit out of that guy as being a real dick it's like when you wake up from getting

high on ecstasy your regrets always involve being too effusive with your friends. Like I'll come to you after an ecstasy trip and be like, oh, God. I fucking told him I loved him. I told him how important he was in my life and I'm going to miss him. You know what I mean? Those are your regrets. When you wake up after booze, you're like, oh, holy shit. I told that guy he looks like he's in

Game of Thrones and I told that you know what I'm saying it's like yeah then it's internal environmentalism you know I just don't think there's any way to justify littering like that and you're justifying leering like that because there's something already bad there it's a silly proposition I think that if you sat down and talked to the guy you'd probably agree I mean unless he's an asshole do you think you could ever justify throwing cans out the window could you ever justify throwing cans out your window I'd like to go to his house and shit on his carpet

it's not a justifiable action you're ruining things for everybody else and if everybody did it the whole thing would be ruined like when you drive through like the boulder like if you drive from boulder up into the mountains, you don't see any garbage, man. It's amazing.

It's beautiful. Cars drive through there every day. Nobody throws shit out the window. They have a great respect for what that place looks like. It's very rare you see any garbage on the ground. But what if everybody was like that guy and just threw cans out the window? You know, oh, this shouldn't be here. Yes, it should.

It should because that's how you use cars, dummy. And otherwise, it takes a long time to get anything done. So either we all don't use cars, and we all walk around a city, or you shut the fuck up and stop throwing cans out the window, asshole. That's stupid. You're in a car, and you're throwing cans out the car because the roads... Get the fuck out of here

with this. Smack that guy. Take his keys and throw them into the river. Go get your keys, stupid. But don't let this... Listeners But don't let this, listeners, don't let this discourage you from reading Desert Solitaire. I'm sure the book's great. He's still an asshole. Look what you're doing. You're still defending him because of his writing.

Desert Solitaire. That's the name of the game he plays when he drives his car and throws his cans at fucking desert animals. Yeah, we shouldn't do that. We shouldn't do that. As often happens, I'm cursed by seeing both points of view. You have to be. I think he's making the larger point that civilization itself is the toxin.

And I agree with that. If it wasn't for civilization, you'd get eaten by wolves. It would be ridiculous. Life would suck a fat dick if it wasn't for civilization. What about you, man? You're no hunter-gatherer. If you didn't have civilization, what would you be doing? See, that's a completely empty argument, which goes back to the idea that if, you know, you're born into a world, into a time and place.

I'm not going to, what am I going to do? Say, hey, mom and dad, sorry, I'm going to go be a hunter-gatherer, you know? I mean, what the fuck? I'm not going to use my phone. I'm not going to drive a car. You're enjoying civilization. to use my phone. I'm not going to drive a car. You're enjoying civilization. That completely invalidates any conversation because no one can ever criticize civilization at all because we all participate in it. So that doesn't make sense. No, that's not saying that no one can

criticize civilization. Well, you're saying I should be a hunter-gatherer? No, I'm saying civilization isn't all evil. It is what it is. Okay. It is what it is. It's like a growth. There's no denying that. It's certainly like a growth or a movement. It's a fungal growth. It is what it is. Okay. It is what it is. It's like a growth. There's no denying that. It's certainly like a growth or a movement. It's a fungal growth. It is what it is, but it's not necessarily all bad. Okay, but wait a minute. It's oftentimes amazing.

But you're moving to a different conversation, which is, is it all good? Is it all bad? Of course not. But what I'm objecting to is the idea, because I'm going to be dealing with this a lot in this book, that the idea that you can't criticize civilization if you participate in it. Well, it's not. That's bullshit. But no one's saying that.

That's not the argument. The argument isn't that you can't criticize civilization. It's that civilization, much like almost everything, is incredibly nuanced. There's a lot of parts to it. Yeah. And some of the parts, I feel like most of the parts are fucking amazing. Most of the parts of not having to worry about most of the diseases that used to wipe out the population, not having to worry about gathering your food, not having to worry about sewage,

not having to worry about information and education, not having to worry about social structures, not having to worry about being fucking invaded by rival Mongol herds and shit. The amazing aspects of civilization, in my opinion, far outweigh the cancerous element of the very human being. Exactly. And now let me flip the whole thing back on you and say the reason you feel that way is that you were raised in civilization. So just like the Navajos call themselves the people and the Apache call themselves the people and the Iroquois, everybody believes that the time and place they live in is the place to be. live in is the place to be. And so a lot of your information about comparing civilization to pre-civilized times is mutated and distorted by the fact that you were from this time and place, right? You've got a vested interest in believing that. For example, you said, oh, I wouldn't want

to have to worry about dying from all these diseases everyone died from. Fact is, like the top five killers of human beings, all those diseases jumped over to humans from domesticated animals. So they didn't exist in any important sense before civilization. Oh, there's no doubt that- There was no tuberculosis, no influenza, no smallpox. Sure. I'm well aware of that. And there's no doubt that everyone in every point in time throughout history was in the time that they were in and the best time for human beings, according to them. We justify that.

We always justify that. Or we look back in the past with nostalgia. And that's what I think you do a little bit. Sure. And I do as well. I mean, I think I'm not saying that civilization is the only way to live life and if we were living back in the tribal days of 6,000 plus years ago in the Amazon or whatever the fuck it was when people were living without any possibility of anything being any different. The difference between us now and then is the incredible possibilities that civilization

provides. I personally find those things enriching and fascinating and I would way rather hang out with people of today than some asshole from 6,000 years ago that doesn't have the internet. But you've never met that asshole. I'm not being honest. I'm fucking around. Do you understand how to talk to comedians? We don't always say what we mean.

Oh, you're slippery fuckers is what you are. I want to add something here. When I'm walking around a group of people, I've noticed my the way that i'm categorizing that experience shapes the experience itself absolutely so if i'm walking through a group of people and i'm thinking here i am among the locusts look at them devouring the earth if i think like that then suddenly i am living in a, I'm just basically another sticky little bit of scabies on some herpes infested prostitutes vagina. But then if I look around and think, wow, man, these are all expansions of the earth. These are all expressions of the universe.

Here is the universe expressing itself in this is nature. Sure, I'm not in South America. I'm not surrounded by green and trees, and I don't hear the sounds of the jungle, but I am still surrounded by the natural world, taking a very specific form of manifesting in a specific way we call civilization. And the moment I see it like that, suddenly things get better. It feels like I make connections more. It seems like it talks to you.

We talk to each other. We are the universe talking to itself. So do you believe in God? I believe in a higher intelligence. I think the word God is a real confusing word. But as a term of convenience, I'll say, sure, I believe in God. The reason I ask is that that's essentially how I look at religion. It's like people can choose to believe in something like that because it makes their immediate experience more pleasant. Well, not to get into semantics, but I think you should separate religion from belief in God.

Because I think you pull those things away. And then you get into this idea of like, oh, you're just making yourself feel better. And so you're sort of deluding yourself to try to turn your eyes away from the raging fires of hell. Right, because the fact is the locust vision and the enlightened beings and magic of the universe vision are both true. Exactly. I leave open the possibility of a higher intelligence just based on the fact that if you look at the senses that some animals provide, there's a lot of animals, a lot of life forms on this planet that literally don't have the senses to detect us

because we're not involved in their world on a regular basis. Certain animals, you wave your hand over a slug, they have no fucking idea you're there. They don't care. There's certain animals that are like that, that don't have the ability to perceive, whether it's fungus or whether it's microorganisms or whatever it is. Why would we assume that this is the end of the line? Why would we assume that in our complex,

very limited in fact, we have so few senses, we have them numbered. I mean, why would we assume that those are the only senses to be had and there's not some sort of next step, next dimension? The difference between oceanic creatures with no eyeballs and a person living in a penthouse in Manhattan, might as well call that a different dimension. You might as well, because it kind of is. And why would we assume that this is the end of the line, that our ability to perceive and adjust our material world

is the only one like that out there, and there's not something way more advanced that exists in the very fiber of the universe itself that we can't detect yet because we're primitive well it's like size right we assume size and time we judge it from here like our experience is the zero in our number system right but uh you know like things become infinitesimally small and they become infinitesimally large so we're not at the middle of anything because there are no ends to it right but we just sort of randomly choose it and say well this is normal anything smaller than this is small anything bigger is bigger anything that goes faster than my experience

of time is speed it up and anything that goes slower is slowed down it's like what the fuck what your assumption is bullshit there because it's based on nothing yeah light travels faster than what you hold on wait a minute you fucking crazy bitch yeah also the assumption of the birth and the death of the universe itself i've always wondered why we need to attribute these biological characteristics like birth and death to the universe. Like why would we automatically do that with no assumptions? No, we do it based on our own personal limitations. The fact that we know that we live and die.

Other things live and die. We're pretty sure planets live and die. We're pretty sure suns have a life and then they burn. We know it. There are supernovas. We know that suns die out. We know our sun has a certain amount of time left and then it's over. We know it. So we just assume that the whole universe is like that. Yeah. Well, we use the term die to refer to that moment of

radical change that happens in everything in the universe when it goes from being from one form to the next. But it isn't really a death. It's just a radical, radical fucking change, you know? Interesting. Yeah. We don't talk about the death of water when it becomes ice. No. You know, although melting has a little bit of death in it, maybe. Well, it's just change.

We're just like, that's the thing. It's like we're in this constantly morphing, changing thing. This constantly changing world. And you get to, I think what you said about we're existing in these two, all these dimensions. One is the dimension where it's a bunch of locusts chewing up a living planet. Another dimension is where the living planet has sprouted sensory, I don't know what you call it. Sensory organs. Sensory organs, which are, yeah, right.

It's that, or it's like that. Which are human beings. Which are human beings. Carl Sagan, who said human beings are the universe looking back at itself. Yes, there's that or it's like that. Which are human beings. Which are human beings. Carl Sagan who said human beings are the universe looking back at itself. Yes. There's that. And then these are considered like Ram Dass talks about this, how there's these channels that you can dial into and you get to decide what channel you want to dial into. So if you want to live in like the Fox News dimension, you can live there where you're constantly, your fists are clenched.

You're watching Bill O'Reilly. Everything Obama does makes you want to fucking kill yourself or kill somebody else. And your stomach is bubbling. You're chain smoking and listening to Rush Limbaugh and beeping at anyone who cuts in front of you in the wrong way. That's a dimension. You're in a dimension. You're in a specific universe where you're at war with all these liberals, blah, blah, blah. Ann Coulter is the goddess, whatever.

But there are all these different channels that, blah, blah. Ann Coulter is the goddess, whatever. But there are all these different channels that you can tune into, and one of them is this channel where you just believe that everything's perfect. And that is blasphemy to a lot of people. They don't want to fucking hear that. They don't want to hear that everything's perfect. Because then they say,

look at the fucking radiation, Fukushima, Holocaust, people dying, cancer kids. The hyenas are killing the fucking elk.ukushima holocaust people dying cancer kids the hyenas are killing the the the fucking the elk we're all dying everything's on fire the sun's gonna supernova how dare you say everything's perfect you know but if you but if you start just playing around with that idea and tuning into that idea that no no this is perfect this is a beautiful universe. I look out at the Hubble telescope and I see those incredible just deep fields of stars out there. And I see the supernovas and I see all these things and I don't think, oh God, the violence of the supernova as it evaporates everything around it.

I don't think, oh God, the monster black hole sucking this dimension into it. And I don't think any scientist or cosmologist would look at that and be like, that is violence happening and evil. Yet somehow when it gets down to us, these little fucking little meaty things, that's where the thing's malfunctioning now. The black hole is fine. It's not evil. That's not a demon.

The black hole is sucking fucking light into it. That's not evil. But suddenly when it comes down to us, it's like, yeah yeah we're monstrous Asteroids kill the dinosaurs Fucking chunk of metal flying 45,000 miles an hour through space Slams into the earth

And is several miles deep within the first couple seconds I say forgive Us But you're right too You get to pick where you want to be That know, that's the thing You get to pick where you want to be That guy throwing cans out the window is still a douchebag Do you know that locusts and grasshoppers are the same animal?

No, I didn't It's the same species? Same animal, exact same animal Yeah, what happens is you got a bunch of grasshoppers, right? If there's not enough food Below a certain caloric intake They metamorphize into locusts and they swarm and take off. Isn't that fun? I'm thinking about that a lot as a metaphor for human nature, right?

Because we're talking about how fucked up the word nature is. And everybody's always asking me, having written this book and whatever, you know, what is it, human nature to do this, human nature to do that? It's like talking about locusts and grasshoppers i think we we become a different kind of being based upon our context that's not just uh insects that's wild pigs as well wild pigs and domestic pigs are the same exact animal and steve rinello was explaining that, that wild pigs, I forget the exact term, what the pig, you know, what gender it is. But when they move out, like if you get a wild pig and you release it out into the wild, within three weeks they start changing. Like their body changes. Really?

Their snout extends, their hair becomes darker and coarser, and their tusks grow. Like the Hulk. They grow these fucking crazy prongs. When you see a wild boar, that's the same thing as a domestic pig it's literally the same animal very it's an animal that morphs when it has to take care of itself yeah if you leave a wild pig in it yeah there they are look at the differences between those two animals those are the same animal the exact same animal but the one on the right is wild and the one on the left is domesticated. So, human beings. There you are.

On the left. On the right. Hunter-gatherers. Sasquatch, maybe? No, no. Still human beings. That's the point. Still human beings.

Yes. Yeah, except wild pigs fuck up their environment. Yeah, hunter-gatherers, I'm sure. No, they don't. Wild pigs, they fuck up the golf course is what they fuck up. They fuck up farmland. They don't fuck up farmland. That up the golf course is what they fuck up. They fuck up farmland. They don't fuck up farmland. That's not their environment.

That's the point. They're disruptive to our official environment. Well, it's not a point because they're not from here. They're not indigenous species. We brought them in entirely. That's true. Which gets back to why the Aztecs were cannibals, by the way. Yeah.

If pigs had existed in North America, they wouldn't have been. Yeah. Pigs are so crazy with how they reproduce deer only reproduce once a year so they did they spit out a couple of fawns pigs reproduce all year round they shit them out every three or four months yes and they shit out like eight or nine of them yeah you know or you know a good litter but i saw a bunch of wild pigs and they had like a whole crew behind them oh yeah they have they they travel in these packs yeah like this is one video of wild pigs running through the woods.

I don't know. I put it on my Twitter a while back. It's probably really hard to find it. But if you just find this video, it's the most insane thing you've ever seen. It's like you're watching the Lord of the Rings and a goblin army is trudging through the town. That's cool.

They're crazy, man. Yeah. We went hunting them, and we were in this place called Tahone Ranch. And where that door is which is probably what 20 feet away 30 feet away that close pigs were fighting in the bushes and we're standing there with rifles

and the bushes are rattling like it's Jurassic Park and you hear going at it with each other and they have tusks and these crazy looking wild shaggy dark things. That's the same as babe. It's the same goddamn animal depending upon the circumstances.

If they have to fend for themselves, if you take out all the aggression of the natural world so they don't have to be on point from the moment they're born, they don't have to be aware of predators. Little piggies, They're not afraid of shit Yeah, same animals a wild boar without civilization. Yeah, that's the universe is very complex man

And there's so much adaptability within the the natural world in quotes with the world of organisms There's so much adaptability. It's absolutely, totally, completely fascinating. Getting back to your point about, you know, higher beings and why do we assume that we're the end of some spectrum, you know? Right. Another indication for me is just there are, I mean, I'm no mathematician,

but there are some like mathematical principles that are just too fucking beautiful to be random. And I mean, I've had experiences traveling. I'm sure you guys have had experiences where it's like, holy shit, that can't have just happened. You know, there's no rational way to understand how that just happened. But a sort of universal one, which I ended Sex at Dawn with is the sun moon thing. Do you know about this? Okay, so the moon is obviously a fraction of the size of the earth, right? One-fourth. One-fourth.

One-fourth, really? Is that right? Yeah. I would have thought much smaller then. No, it's extraordinarily large for a moon. In fact, that's one of the reasons why a lot of the ancients thought of it as a planet. Hmm. Huh.

Yeah. It doesn't move like a planet, though. No, it stays. There's no regressive motion. It doesn't spin. It spins around us, but it doesn't spin in the air right it just floats around us the same side is always facing us anyway so the moon's much smaller than the earth and the sun is far far out of hundreds of thousands of times larger right and as you said the moon is this you know very important obviously it's

important to every civilization or every every culture that's ever existed the moon is often seen as feminine because of the changes and its association with menstruation and so on and so forth. And the sun, obviously, is super, you know, those are the two most important things that anyone's ever thought about, you know, in terms of like immediately obvious symbols. And they appear to be exactly the same size in the sky because the distance of the sun exactly compensates for its larger diameter that's interesting so you have to if you take the diameter of the moon divided by the

distance from the surface of earth it equals the diameter of the sun divided by the distance so that those two things appear exactly the same and you have these solar eclipses where the disc of the moon perfectly covers the disk of the sun. That is mathematically like, how the fuck did that happen? There's no reason mathematically for that to happen. Isn't that a gravitational law, though? No, no, it's not. It's not.

If you look at the, in fact, I talk to people about this. You look at what the moons of Jupiter look like from the surface of Jupiter. They're not, they have no relation to the size of the sun seen from the surface of Jupiter. Right, but Jupiter's a gas planet, right? Isn't that different? Don't look at me, man. Jupiter's not a gas planet. It's not?

Saturn is. Jupiter's not a gas giant? I don't think so. We can look it up. I know there's... Did you guys just watch Cosmos the other night? Yes. Yeah, so... Because there's a did you guys just watch Cosmos the other night? Yes. Yeah, so.

Because there's a thing called Bode's Law that based on the amount of mass that a planet has, you can accurately predict where the next planet will be. And it works, apparently. It's a Jovian planet. It's a large planet that is not primarily composed of rock or any solid matter. Yeah, it's a gas giant. What happens if you- There's four gas giants. Hold on a second.

Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. Those are all gas giants. What happens if you fall into a gas giant? You're fucked. But do you just fall through it? It's a big swirling ball of death. Well, it says not primarily. There's no condom.

There's some solids within it, right? I mean, it's like a conglomeration It's just not primarily composed of solid matter Is it muddy in there? No, it's just fucking hurricanes of death There's storms that have been going on Since the beginning of time that are bigger than our planet Right, the red spot

Yeah, it's just a storm It's an earth-sized storm that's been going on forever Which is the one with that crazy shape at the top That spins around? Is that Jupiter? Saturn. You know what I'm talking about? The one that's got that. Oh, yeah, that's Saturn, yeah.

It's got like a hexagon at the top of it. Yeah, it's really bizarre. It almost looks like a design. But so is everything. I mean, you know, the lower you get and start looking at different aspects of nature, everything gets like, look at ice crystals under a microscope. Oh, man. Like salt. Look at salt under a microscope. Oh, man. Like salt. Look at salt under a microscope. Sand.

Graves of sand. Have you seen that book? Yeah, it's amazing. This guy who takes micro photographs of grains of sand? It's amazing. Fucking wild, man. All different colors and little pieces of seashells and coral. And they're all these wild crystalline things.

I just, you assume every grain of sand is the same. Yeah. Some jewels. They're amazing. Yeah. Some jewels. They're amazing. Yeah. See, that's it. Once you start tuning into that channel that we're talking about now, suddenly the locusts are gone.

Now it's just like. Now the world's amazing. It's like, wow, look at this beautiful place that we're in. Oh, there you go. Some pictures of sand. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

And, you know, those aren't uniform, but I mean, there are many things in nature that are. I mean, the Fibonacci sequence that exists in flowers and pine cones and all these different things is essentially perfect geometric patterns. And that, to me, is God. And there it is right there all the time, right next to you. If you just take a little bit of time to get yourself out of the perception, whatever the perception is that you've become accustomed to. And that is, like, that's what they call, I mean, in, like, occult systems or in magic, that's, like, one of the first that you've become accustomed to. And that is like, that's what they call, I mean, in,

in like occult systems or in magic, that's like one of the first things you want to do is to like pull yourself out of whatever your condition patterns are so that you could see the world is living. Even for a moment, it's a, it's a, I really love chaos magic because it's like a postmodern form of magic that isn't based on like, this magic is real. Like Harry Potterter shit it's based on the if you can change the way you feel then you're going to change your life you know like if you if you can if you can induce certain mood states in inside

of you then you're going to be more inspired you're going to write better you're going to be a better athlete so that's what it is soituals that you use to induce those states that's considered that's what magic is or that's one form of magic So it's like the idea is one really fun experiment you can do. It's really cool, man This isn't a book. I read about chaos magic you um go to like a place where there's shitloads of people and you put yourself in a intentionally paranoid state. Not paranoid as in you're afraid, but paranoid as in the sense that everything happening around you is the universe conversing with you. For like 15 minutes, now the universe is talking to you. So every accident, every moment, every t-shirt that has something written

on it, every song that you hear is related to answering whatever your question is. It's like an oracle or something like that. And because our minds consist not just of the conscious but also the subconscious, suddenly you'll start seeing reflections of your subconscious in the workings of the world around you. And that can answer your question or give you some kind of like information that you're seeking. You really is the information coming from the world or inside of you. It doesn't matter if you find a solution that gives you a course of action to take that betters your life, you know? So it's good to not think that we're, I don't mean to keep going back to this, but if you think that you're a plague, then that from a cult lens, that would be a spell that you're casting. That would be considered a rich

You know what? I mean, that's like an actual You're actually going to induce a specific Reaction from the universe around you that maybe it maybe won't be so good because if you're a fucking locust What's the universe around you? I think there's no denying that there's several factors involved in your life and shaping your life And I think there has to denying that there's several factors involved in your life and shaping your life. And I think there has to be some impact other than attitudinal, if that's a word, that comes out of the way you perceive things. That it might not just be, oh, well, you're looking at things the wrong way.

You're going to be sad. No, it might be that you're shaping the energy that you produce. You're shaping what you put out. You're shaping how people receive you. And that may in turn shape the very physical world around you the same way wolves change rivers. Yeah. And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. Yeah.

Wow. I mean, basically, they figured that shit out in the hippie days. Yeah. And isn't that what they meant at the end of that great song? It's a fun experiment. And then the government came in and threw gas on the whole thing. Just get yourself all worked up in a nice paranoid froth, which I am quite good at doing, and then go into the world and you'll notice everyone's a dick.

Have you ever noticed that when you're really, you know, like all of a sudden it's like, God, man, everyone's being such a fucking cunt today. It's so true. And then you realize. Every time I'm in L.A. I notice that, man. Well, L.A. is intense. Traffic creates aggression within me, you know? It's what you were saying earlier, like people cut you off, you get all angry.

I mean, I used to, when I was traveling a lot, I first noticed this sort of phenomenon. I always thought of it as the, you know, on the crowded bus phenomenon. I get on the bus in Mexico, whatever, all the seats are taken. I'm standing there. It's a five-hour bus ride. I'm, like, tired. You know, know i haven't slept i've got diarrhea and i'm sort of like leaning on the seat and the dude whose shoulder my ass touches occasionally is kind of getting up tight and i'm thinking what an asshole that guy is you know fuck i'm standing here you know at least he could

do is let me lean on the seat without giving me shit whatever and then the guy gets up gets off the bus i sit down someone else is standing there and they start their ass starts touching my shoulder and i get pissed off and i'm like yeah there you go it all depends on where i am you know like i am such a fucking hypocrite because my perception of this situation is not accurate it's it's you know it or it is accurate in both cases but both cases are true now imagine this imagine in either of those situations you had just met a girl and fallen in love and you don't give a shit yeah exactly now all of a sudden because you're in love it doesn't matter if someone's rubbing against you it doesn't matter a fucking dog could probably

come and start chewing on your ankle it's gonna suck but you're but you're not. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And honestly, that's why I traveled so much because traveling put me in the state of mind where nothing bothered me. But the idea is. Because I always felt so lucky and happy to be. Yes. Wherever the fuck I was. So here's the big question. Can we induce that state of feeling love, in love, whatever you want to call it, minus a condition?

feeling love, in love, whatever you want to call it, minus a condition. So in other words, is there a way to actually, do we have the control or is it already inside of us to find this place where we're constantly experiencing that feeling of intense love wherever we go? Because if you're feeling that, the traffic doesn't suck, nothing really sucks. You know, I said this on Ari's podcast, which is like, do something you love with someone you hate and something you hate with someone you love. And you'll see how potent the state of feeling in love is. Because if you do something you hate with someone you love, you don't hate the fucking thing anymore. But if you do something you love with someone who sucks, it's a miserable situation.

situation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's also the question of, are you trying to have, in asking for this state of love and bliss and whatever it is that mystics are always guiding us toward, is that an illegitimate request in the sense that, you know, is that an ultimately selfish request? You're saying, I want pleasure without pain. I want light without darkness. I want bliss without despair. Aren't those things, is there light without darkness? You know, for now, for now, you'll get your darkness later. You'll get plenty of darkness. Well, that's sort of how I feel. I feel like, you know, I've had a, you know, if I, if I tallied up my life, I would say it's 90%. Great. I would say more than 90%. Well, look's sort of how I feel. I feel like, you know, I've had a, you know, if I tallied up my life, I would say it's 90% great. I would say more than 90%. Well.

Look where you're at right now. Yeah, no, whatever. I mean, but again, that's one of those things. 100%. Like, pick your perspective and the valley looks different depending on what mountain you're standing on. You know, it's always. This condition is 100% great. Yes.

It's just better. Nothing's 100% great. No, this right now, this condition right now we're in is 100% great. There. Nothing's 100% great. Right now, this condition, right now we're in is 100% great. There's nothing negative about it. We're putting out all this conversation. A lot of people are enjoying it. They're thinking. We're sparking ideas. We're having a good time together as friends. We're having a good

time talking and stimulating each other. These podcasts are awesome. It's a really cool and unique moment. So for me right now, I'm having 100% good time. And this is what I'm judging. I'm judging cool and unique moment. So for me right now, I'm having 100% good time. And this is what I'm judging. I'm judging life on this moment. This moment which it's all about maintaining your balance on this tightrope. How long can you stay at this moment?

Yes. That's it, man. The razor's edge, right? That's what they say in Buddhism. Walking the spiritual path is as tricky as treading upon the edge of a razor. Yes. Yeah, beautiful book. About a traveler.

I love the movie, too. And a seekerker i like the movie too the razor's edge i never saw the bill murray oh bill murray that's great yeah but but but yeah man that's the thing then i love like the other day man i was taking a walk and i hit that fucking place by the river the la river this is i keep having that by the LA River when I go for these walks, and I'll hit this place where it's like, oh, this is amazing. This feels so good. And then I'll think, I want this feeling to last forever. And then it's gone because I'm trying to grasp at it.

I'm trying to fucking hold it. You know, that's that Neil Young song. Love is a rose, but you better not pick it. It only grows when it's on the vine. Handful of thorns, and you know you've missed it lose your love when you say the word mine yeah you know when you're when you're trying to grab it when you want it to last when you're like no i don't want it to go away go it flees in terror how awesome is neil young he's the greatest man you should get him on this podcast he's so cool you know he makes his own bio-diesel. Yeah.

He makes his own gasoline. He has a farm and he makes his own gasoline to run a diesel truck with. He used to live right here in Topanga. Really? Yeah, yeah. He's the coolest.

Where's he at? I want to stalk him. He's a bad motherfucker. I want to stalk him too. I think he's still in LA somewhere. I was working at Greatwood Center for the Performing Arts

in Mansfield, Massachusetts at a Neil Young concert once. And it was the craziest concert ever because people couldn't hear well. Like, the setup wasn't very good that day for whatever reason, and so the people in the top, there was so much talking. Like, the top area was like this grassy area. There was so much talking.

It was like riots almost. And then people started lighting fires, and people had snuck in booze, and they had to shut the concert down. They had to shut, literally stop the concert because there was so much chaos and it was all in a Neil Young concert.

That sucks. It was wild. It was wild. It was wild being there. I put a jacket on over my security jacket. I was like, fuck this. I'm blending in the crowd. I zipped up and got the fuck out of Dodge.

I think that was one of the last shows I ever worked. I was like, this job's just too fucking crazy It's too dangerous when when shit goes wild and you see like a whole this whole field filled with people partying They're all fucked up drunk and they're lighting fires I mean it was just craziness and then people are beating the shit out of each other randomly like you find little Packets of people beating the shit out of you rolling. Just brawling? Yeah, yeah, brawls just broke out. At a Neil Young concert. I mean, that's not Neil Young's crowd.

Listen, everybody in Massachusetts will punch you in the face, okay? Be well aware of that. It is true. Everybody in Massachusetts that you're in an argument with, you have a very good shot of getting punched in the face. That's just a fact. Man, did you see that video of that riot that broke out at the basketball game? Like a riot broke out in the crowds.

I'm not shocked. When humans stampede, it's scary. Happens all the time in Brazil at soccer matches. Well, they decapitated that guy. The referee got in a fight with someone in the crowd. A fan tried to stab the referee, and the referee wound up stabbing the fan, or the fan was attacking the referee. The referee stabbed him and killed him. Then the audience came down and ripped the guy apart, decapitated him, and removed his limbs.

The referee? The referee. The fans murdered the referee and cut his head off. And it wasn't just one fan that did this. It was like 28 people that did this. They tore this guy apart and cut his limbs off and cut his head off. See? Everything's perfect.

Well, the Buddhists say no snowflake ever falls in the wrong place. No snowflake ever falls on the wrong decapitated neck. It's all with the universe in plan. Don't go fucking stabbing people and you won't get dismembered in front of a large crowd of soccer fans. Yeah, I mean, they've arrested a few people, but I don't know how

that works. How many people can you charge for murder? Look at this Brazilian soccer referee beheaded by angry fans who put his head on a stake after he stabbed a player. Jesus! That is old school by angry fans who put his head on a stake after he stabbed a player. Jesus. That is old school. Wow. Really? They put his head on a stake.

Man, all those primeval ways of dealing with things, all those horrible. Lacrosse. You know how lacrosse started? No. It was a substitute for war among the Iroquois and the people who lived in Northeast U.S. and part of Canada. So what they did was they developed this game. And the lacrosse, there was no field initially. There was like a hoop, you know, that they would put on a stick in one part of the woods

and the other one in the other part of the woods. And they had the, you know, the sticks and all that. And you would like fuck people up. You'd kill people along the way. You'd like stab people with your stick. And I don't know if this is true in all cases, but in many cases, the losing team, whoever was still surviving, would then be tortured and killed. So it was actually a substitute

for war. Kind of like chess. Why not just go to war? Well, that's what the Mayans did as well. It's easier. By the way, that doesn't sound like a substitute for war. it's a channeling of war well let's think about it limits war it limits it right yeah women and children aren't kids you know you're right right yeah and and also i mean being tortured among those people when you're talking about the nez per se earlier i was thinking that sounded to me like the people in that part of uh north america and the east because there was a lot of torturing and eating of uh of victims but that was seen as um honorable if you were if you were vanquished in battle and captured and eaten and you would be tortured and killed the running the

gauntlet you know that's from those tribes and they would get everybody out there old ladies everybody and you'd have to run down through this line. And they'd hit you with spike sticks and they'd just fuck you up as you went down this corridor. These are the hunter-gatherers? Well, some were agricultural, but yeah. These are the perfect people that he always talks about. See, you guys. Everything's perfect.

This is good training for me. The universe is perfect. You guys are actually harder to argue with than academics. Did you ever hear? My former nemesis. Academics don't have any humor. That's true. Humor is the hardest thing to argue with because you look like a fool when people are laughing at you,

no matter whether your point is good or not. Yes. In Sunday's New York Times, I was quoted saying, Ted is many things and humorless is generally one of them. Well, you're right. Yeah, I know. You're right. It's unfortunate that you can't have both.

Yeah, what they did to Sarah, I think we probably talked about their whole Sarah Silverman thing. Eddie Wong. They made Eddie Wong stay. Eddie Wong's a fucking famous chef. They made him stay with other people. Yeah.

They made him stay like he was a college kid. And then they trashed him when he left to come do your thing. He's like i'm taking an afternoon off no you can't leave what the fuck are you talking about they make you talk to people they make you sleep where they want you to sleep that but you know they provide awesome content but it's another one of those examples of just because something does something awesome doesn't mean it's not inherently fucked as well as being awesome you know werner von braun was aunt, but he was also a brilliant rocket scientist. He was our cunt.

He was eventually our cunt. I mean, it's just a part of the world. There's nothing perfect out there. People try, but so far it's never been achieved. All right, let me throw this against the wall and see if it sticks. There may be something inherently cuntish about people who are high achievers. They're just competitive. You don't have to be inherently cuntish to be successful. You don't have to be. Don't switch it around.

I'm saying that people who are high achievers, there's a book called The Psychopath Test where he shows, John Ronson, shows that executives, high achieving executives, bankers, stock brokers, military people, politicians have a much higher rate of psychopathy than normal people. Right?

So there's something about being a high achiever. You're willing to throw people under the bus. You're willing to stab people in the back. You're willing to do what it takes. You've got the fire in the belly. You've got ambition. Ambition itself is, and I know there are exceptions to this, but I think ambition itself is psychologically pathological because you don't want to be where you are. I think ambition.

You want to get somewhere else. Ambition without honor. Ambition without ethics. Ambition without morals. Ambition without a code. That's when you run into problems. It's not the ambition itself. It's the ambition represented in a form of

fuckery. It's represented in cheating. It's represented in evil behavior. There's absolutely ethical competition. And anything less than ethical competition should be dishonorable and it should be preferable to be poor. And that's the problem. There's a lack of honor and there's a lack of a code. And one of the reasons being is that our society and the rules that have been thrust upon us in many ways is so ridiculous that we reject it. Yeah, you shouldn't probably walk across the street randomly anywhere and jaywalk and make people slam on their brakes, but you shouldn't make me pay money because I walked across the street. Why do you get money? What is jaywalking?

What is that? There's a lot of those things. There's a lot of those things. Parking tickets and all sorts of stupid things about speeding quotas. Where fundamentally, yeah, you probably shouldn't speed. You shouldn't put people in danger. But who the fuck are you to pull people over and write paper? What?

Because we elected someone to be in a position to control the traffic, and this is your solution? This is a stupid fucking solution, man. This whole thing sucks. You guys need to steal money from people every year just to pay your fucking salaries. You're not even funded. You're funded by the fact that people are getting robbed. You're pulling people over for rolling through a stop sign.

You're a cunt. You know, the whole thing's cunt-ish. You're in a cunt business. Right. And that seems fundamentally to be the problem, is that we don't have codes. That we don't have a clear ethical structure

for our society that's based on being nice to people and raising nice children and stopping abuse at the fundamental level of childhood and child-rearing and making and developing shitty human beings that further instigate this problem I think I think we know the code

though well it is very clear it is no it's not clear but I think ultimately the code is get away with whatever you can get away with but that's not true because there's many people that are very happy because I've succeeded in life without doing that okay we. I don't remember which coach it was who said, winning's not the biggest thing, it's the only thing. We celebrate that. That's what you say when you're trying to motivate players. It doesn't mean that that's what people really feel.

But have you seen that Alan Watts animation, the South Park animation? Have you seen that? I've seen some of them, yeah. Have you ever seen the Alan Watts South Park animation? Can we play that? You know that I'm talking about? I can find it for you. I'll find it.

It's so good. Aren't there a bunch of them? There's one that I'll find that's totally related to this. Hold on. Go ahead, Duncan. Thank you. People celebrate people that have a code. The code is not, the celebrated code is not do anything you can.

But I'm saying on a social level. On a social level. I mean, look at who gets the most money. Who gets the most money? Not ethical people. But we don't celebrate that in its entirety. We don't celebrate making the most money at all costs. We don't celebrate that.

Well, we do celebrate it. No, we do celebrate it by giving them the money. That's the point. That's the structure of celebration. We look down on those people. We get angry at those people. They don't give a fuck. But they do.

No, they don't. See, that's where we disagree. I think every person who's not completely out of their fucking mind thinks about what other people think about that. All right. Then we're back to money being toxic. But I'm just saying on a- But no, we're not. We're not necessarily money being toxic.

It's a simplification, I think. You are a slippery person. Let us know. It's a simplification. Okay. All I'm trying to say is on a social level, social construct, most resources go to those who win at whatever their thing is. Best if they're in banking and finance because that's where more money is going these days. And not if they do it unethically.

The society rewards winning. We talk about politicians who have the fire in the belly, who have the ambition, who have the need to be leaders and so on. Those are not healthy people. The people who should be our leaders are the people who aren't interested in being our leaders. Yes, I agree with you on that. So there's a structural distortion in our society that celebrates something that, on an ethical level, we don't agree with. Can I show you guys this thing?

Because it really sums up what you're talking about. Play that video. It's so good. The South Park people animated all these Alan Watts things. It's so good. We don't hear anything. In music, one doesn't make the end of a composition the point of the composition. If that were so, the best conductors would be those who played fastest.

And there would be composers who wrote only finales. People go to concerts, just to hear one crashing chord, because that's the end. But we don't see that as something brought by our education into our everyday conduct. We've got a system of schooling which gives a completely different impression. It's all graded. And what we do is we put the child into the corridor

of this grade system with a kind of, come on, kitty, kitty, kitty. And now you go to kindergarten, you know. And that's a great thing because when you finish that, you'll get into first grade. And then, come on, first grade leads to second grade, and and so on and then you get out of grade school you got high school and it's revving up the thing is coming then you're going to go to college and by Joe then you get into graduate school and when you're through

with graduate school you go out to join the world and then you get into some racket where you're selling insurance and they've got that quota to make and you're going to make that and all the time this thing is coming it's coming it's coming that great thing the success you're working for then when you wake up one day about 40 years old you say my god i've arrived i'm there and you don't feel very different from what you always felt and there's a slight let down because you feel there's a hoax and there was a hoax a dreadful hoax they made you miss everything we thought of life by analogy with

a journey with a pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end and the thing was to get to that end success or whatever it is or maybe heaven after you're dead but we missed the point the whole way along it was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing or to dance while the music was being played. Live your life, bitches. Yeah, isn't that cool? Alan Watts is a bad motherfucker. Yes, he was, man.

Yeah, totally, you know? So that's the ambition that you're talking about. It's like when people are always rushing at and rushing at, trying to get to this. It's just a lack of balance. Yeah. That's, you know, when we're talking about the bankers and the people that are handling the money, what percentage of our population is actually bankers versus what percentage of our population is actually ambitious? Versus what percentage of the resources of our society go to those people?

We have a corrupt system. It's insane. It's just a corrupt system. And once people are in power, they're very reluctant to give away any of that power. And so they keep lobbying and bribing, essentially, to keep the laws in place. Yeah, exactly. And the reason I'm arguing so vociferously about this is that I think that you're right. It's not clear because we've got a two-track system.

We've got an ethical system that tells kids, be nice to each other, you know, blah, blah, blah, the golden rule. But the structure underlying the fundamentals of our society are sending the opposite message. They're saying, fuck everybody, get yours. I don't think they are, though. This is why it's a simplification, because we obviously have rules in place to keep people from stealing. We obviously have rules in place to prevent fraud.

But as Duncan said, not if they're inside the system. That's the point. If you steal $100 million, nobody went to jail for what happened in Wall Street. Nobody. All those banks you talked about in Miami laundering drug money, they've been doing it for decades. Hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Nobody's ever gone to jail for that. Right. But that's not out in the public and that's not out in the open. What's out in the public and what's out in the open is what's, you know, what we hear about in the news and what, you know, the perception. Exactly. It's the poor people getting haul direct contradiction with the fundamental values of the way the society is structured. I see what you're saying then about corruption being because of human ambition. And that human ambition, when it gets into positions of power, ultimate power corrupting ultimately, that there's almost no way to avoid it.

That maybe it's just that human beings should never be in that kind of a position of power. Maybe something like a corporation where you can go outside of the laws of human one-on-one interaction. Maybe something like that just really should have never been allowed to take place. Because as soon as you allow people to have groups and those groups to have massive influence and then them to benefit personally from that massive influence. The decisions that they make affect so many people and are so gigantic, they're almost anti-human. And that's essentially what people always accuse corporations of being, anti-human. It's because they've become a part unwittingly of a much larger organism that needs people to live off of but isn't a person.

And it's whose interests don't align with those of human beings. Yeah, so it's not even like human ambition is what a problem is. The problem is when it gets funneled into these giant groups because one person on their own doesn't really have that much power. They have the power that they can physically do whatever they can do with people around them, but most of the time when you're fucking around and you're one person and you're one person and you're subjugating a bunch of different

people, they'll attack you. They'll go after you. But the problem is when things become so big, they can no longer be attacked. And shame is no longer an effective form of controlling. It doesn't mean anything to them. Because, hey, I don't give a shit if I'm destroying the Amazon with my oil wells because

my friends like me. Because I throw good parties and I take them out on my own. We all do it. We're all doing it. Everyone's doing it. I'm destroying the Amazon, you're destroying it. We'd all be together in it, and we'd sort of justify it in some sort of a way. Yeah, there's the locus. Louis Theroux was on, he was talking about Fred Phelps and that crazy Baptist church,

Westboro Baptist church. He spent three weeks with the guy, and he said that one of the weirdest aspects of his trip was that after three weeks, although it didn't change his views of the world, he thought all the things they were saying, you know, God hates fags and all that was very horrific. It became normal and commonplace. It became like the impact of it was less because he had been around it for so long that he had been sort of acclimated to it. And he thinks it's one of the ways that these people get away in their own mind with doing this and sort of connecting it to the idea that this is god's

word is because they just get so accustomed to it they get acclimated to madness they get too as do we all yes we are right that's the thing that's what we're so good at you get to decide what you want to harmonize with and if you're like you that's that's what i'm saying you get a little bit a little bit if you can if you can but if you're a child or if you're raised in a terrible fucking place where you can't get out and you're stuck there as an adult books man books are the greatest right if they exist if they exist but then it brings back to the internet because that's what i always say is the great savior of the human being because the internet connects all the ideas together to everyone everywhere whenever it's available and you have to but you have to decide what you're gonna look for that's the main thing

what are you what are you mining for if you're mining for demons there's a part of this mind that's filled with fucking demons but you can harmonize that's the thing you can tune in for sure and there are there are lots of different ways to do that you know it isn't hopeless this This is that joke. I've actually given up the joke because I can't make it funny. But I've been saying it. Being in the United States is like being a cell in the body of a very healthy serial killer. You know, and it's like... So the thing to do is not to try to destroy the organism or try to like, you're not going to be able to fight against an entire thing. It's to fix yourself.

That's what it is. Fix yourself. But you fix yourself, then you become the cancer cell because you're disruptive to the dominant logic of your host, right? Yeah, but hopefully it's not. Hopefully the idea is like if if you know you get one really fucking happy person and that happy person is going to change the people around them it's true well that nun did you hear about this nun who just went to prison she's like in her 80s in pennsylvania she was one of these nuns who broke into uh some top secret uh

defense lab in Pennsylvania or Maryland. They went in at night and nobody caught them and they like went and they didn't hurt anything, but they were demonstrating how unsecure the information there was and how easy it would be. And they, they stayed there peacefully and got arrested. I think it was a nun and two priests.

And she just went to prison. I mean, she became, you know, disruptive to. Look, it's, you know, disruptive to... Look at Snowden as another example. Yeah, sure. Bradley Manning. Snowden. I mean, Manning and Snowden.

Like, if you look at that, they tuned into a higher frequency, which is the frequency of justice, of truth, of what's right, a higher ethic. He tuned into that and he sacrificed everything for it. Now he's a hero and he's created change, big time change in the body of the serial killer. It is that he didn't fix it, but God damn it, that's not going away. People aren't forgetting the fact that they're being monitored. That didn't go anywhere. That's constantly going to be, that would be an example of a serial killer having something go from the subconscious to the conscious. You know, where suddenly the serial killer is like, oh.

It's a kidney stone in a serial killer. Shit, man, maybe I, shit, I'm killing people every day. I don't know if this is really good. It created a little bit of indigestion in society, you know? And one person did that. That's one person doing what he thinks, right? Yeah So what happens if we get five of those people and then what happens if you get 20 of those people?

The change could be so drastic and radical that it would make your head spin Well, I think he's gonna be looked at in the future as a revolutionary Yeah Yeah to be looked at as a guy who sacrificed his own safety to save the culture and You know when you see that guy do that video conference in South by Southwest and there's a giant standing ovation, what other person who's being shielded by another country,

a country that we always think of as evil, gets treated like that? What other criminal that's running from the long arm of the government, he's hiding. Literally, he calls himself like a large house cat. That's what he says. He has the life of a domestic house cat because he doesn't go outside. Wow.

He just lives inside the house. And if he did go outside, it would be Russia, which also sucks. Yeah, it sucks. And he's probably on some giant list of death wishes of people who they want dead. It's too bad the WikiLeaks guy is as fucked up as he is. He's fucked up in what way? Well, he's apparently a real asshole and very egotistical and manipulative and narcissistic. I would reserve judgment until I met him.

I really would. I just, I think, can you imagine how much character assassination has been doctored up about that guy? Oh, shit. If you're going to come up with one guy to character assassinate, it would be Julian Assange. He looks like a douchebag. He's got silver hair. There's videos of him dancing. It's so easy to just say that guy's

a cunt, but I don't know that guy. God forbid any video of me seriously dancing emerges on the fucking internet. Anyone could easily take a point of view of either one of us, especially if they, you know, had us stuck in a house somewhere, that you were a total piece of shit, because you become some gigantic controversial figure and you might

have jeopardized American safety by releasing military secrets. And there's so many variables there that it's so easy to label you a cunt. Plus, you look like a cunt. You know, he looks like a cunt. His fucking silvery hair and his fucking posh accent. Fuck that guy. That's what everybody thinks. And then you hear all this crazy shit about him

being creepy to women and, oh, I saw that coming. Yeah, right. Yeah, well, that's definitely a setup, that whole rape thing. Well, it's certainly a really transparent way to try to get him out of the country. I mean, that's the most transparent shit ever. Oh, you're not worried about the WikiLeaks thing? You're worried about

he might have had sex with someone? Yeah. Someone who actually invited him over for another night after the event. And thing, you're worried about he might have had sex with someone? Yeah. Someone who actually invited him over for another night after the event. And what she was pissed off about wasn't that he fucked her, it's that he fucked her without a condom. Yeah, in the middle of the... They were lying naked in bed. Right. He got a boner, he stuck her in, and she got mad. Come on.

Even if she did get mad, which, by the way, she does have every right to get mad. How'd that become an international incident? How is that something where you're fucking locking some guy up? What kind of a balance does that show when you look at what people are getting arrested for and not getting arrested for? Yeah, that's a shithead thing to do,

and that girl shouldn't hang out with that guy anymore. But if you did go out with him again afterwards, well, people are allowed to make mistakes. But you're not allowed to lock that guy up in a fucking house for a year and have armies waiting with loaded guns standing outside. Take his fucking head off before he can testify.

Yeah, that's it, man. That's the thing. It's creepy when you think about the trajectory because I remember they were talking about, yeah, okay, well, what if he does go back to stand trial? Is there a possibility that there's an extradition policy where they could put him back in the United States? And I'm like, well, yeah, they do have an extradition policy. And then it's like, okay, so wait, there's an extradition policy. He goes in the United States. And I'm like, well, yeah, they do have an extradition policy. And then it's like, okay, so wait, there's an extradition policy. He goes to the United States. Is there any potential he could be executed for what he did?

I'm like, well. Yeah, it's treason. It's a little unlikely, but yes, he could be executed. He will no doubt be arrested and jailed forever. Yeah. And probably killed in jail before he even gets to trial. Maybe not. Maybe he'll be stuck manning style in solitary confinement naked.

Exactly. In a cold cell where you barely stay alive. Being given fucking larium like I was telling you. You know about that? Fucking chemical waterboarding. Just being given fucking larium. Read my friend's book. The answer to the riddle is me.

It's great. He got amnesia in fucking India. Because larium. Explain to people. People don't know what larium is well larium is uh yeah it's a it's an anti-malaria drug that it can for a small percentage of people who take it it can accumulate in your brain and then suddenly in my friend's book uh he describes it as putting your thumb on top of a hose in in your in on on one of your neurons i'm sure i'm saying it wrong but it's like basically all your i'm gonna say it in my own way the dumb way it's like your brain juice

goes spraying all in the wrong places and then you end up completely losing your fucking mind my friend forgot who he was had no idea who he was uh he um lost of his memories, had to be reminded of what his life was, had to go through all his pictures. This is all in this fucking great book. And I do want to plug it because he's one of my best friends. The answer to the riddle is me. So fucking good. But in this book, he talks about the history of larium. And then he talks about how at goddamn Guantanamo Bay, they're giving this drug to people who they know that they know causes amnesia and insanity they're giving it to people in Guantanamo Bay in massive doses and apparently there's no malaria there there's no there's no mosquitoes that cause malaria there so why the fuck are

they giving these people this drug it's sinister man so they're giving them the drug just to erase their memory it's essentially like their version of what the aliens do to you after they check your butt. Yeah, exactly. They're wiping. They're just fucking with their brains. It's a psychedelic. When your brain malfunctions on larium, it's basically like you're on acid for a couple of months. You don't just lose your memory.

Walls bend. There's a suicide note in his book of a guy who was just talking about how it's been like three years and he's still exactly as fucked up as he was when he started taking larium. It's a note to his family. But the point is... And that's a guy who was never charged with a crime, by the way. Right. Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

So fucking Assange comes back here. It's not just like they're going to lock him up. It's like they're going to be injecting all kinds of weird shit into his body. They're going to be filling him with weird chemicals. That's spooky, man. It's not just like they're going to lock him up. It's like they're going to be injecting all kinds of weird shit into his body. They're going to be filling him with weird chemicals. That's spooky, man. It's very spooky. It's very spooky and it's very strange how many people don't see it that way. How many

people say, well, if everybody did that and they gave away the United States secrets. What is the United States? It's a collection of humans. And at the very top of that collection, what exactly are they doing? They're doing what? They're doing this? They're shooting missiles at fucking minivans filled with kids?

Yeah. They're working for corporations. What are they doing? They're extracting money. National interest. Speaking of books, did you and Louis Thoreau talk about his dad at all? No. You know who his dad is?

No. His dad's a really well-known writer. Really? Yeah. I didn't know that. He's probably the most famous travel writer in the world, Paul Theroux. He wrote The Mosquito Coast, great movie, Harrison Ford. Oh, yeah, that's great.

No kidding. I don't think he brought that up. It was a great conversation, though. He was really fascinating. I watched like the first half of it. He's great. He's such a cool guy. Very, very nice guy.

I love his show. He thinks I'm in a cult, though. He thinks I've started a cult. I could tell. He was examining me. Is he based in LA? He is now Yeah

But you know The way he does His shows You could tell He looks for like Cults everywhere He looks for like Did you tell him

To shave his head? Peculiar Americans I stopped telling him that Told him a couple times Tells everybody To shave their head Well he's got a big beard now He's got the Jesus beard

He broke out the beard On the website It was the first time He ever did it It was on the podcast First, he's got a big beard now. He's got the Jesus beard. He broke out the beard on the website. It was the first time he ever did it. It was on the podcast. First time he ever showed the beard. I was very proud of that. So what about this LSD-tainted meat in a Walmart? Who's injecting LSD into those people? On Reddit, they said, I don't know, I didn't examine this,

but they said that LSD, if you cooked it in meat, it wouldn't last. It's a very delicate chemical. Good point. I've heard that also about the French case where the CIA dosed all these people's bread. There was supposedly an experiment that a French town, the CIA dosed an entire town. Wait a minute. I suspect that story might be a mixture. St. Elm, St. Vitus's Fire, I think it's called.

There's a story about the witch hunts. And some anthropologists went back and looked at towns that had the most sort of crazy witch hunts in the medieval period. the most sort of crazy witch hunts in the medieval period. And he found that the year previous to that, there had been an unusually high level of rain. And so ergot, which is a fungus that grows on rye and wheat and some other grains, had grown a lot more. And ergot also contains LSD. I think it's actually a late frost, but I think you're right.

I think it's a late frost. I think it's a late frost that, but I think you're right. I think it's a late frost. That's the issue. So it was in the bread. Yeah, this was not that case, though. This was something different. That's one of the things that they used with the Salem Witch Trials. The Salem Witch Trials they blamed on Ergot. Oh, really? Yeah. They think that when all these people were freaking out about being hexed, and that's probably what was going on. They were probably having really intense psychedelic experiences. Fuck. A 50-year-old mystery of the cursed bread of Pointe-Saint-Espery, which left residents suffering hallucinations, has been solved.

After a writer discovered the U.S. had spiked the bread with LSD as part of an experiment. Ooh. 1951, a quiet, picturesque village in southern France was suddenly mysteriously struck down with mass insanity and hallucinations. At least five people died, dozens were interned in asylums, and hundreds afflicted. For decades it was assumed that the local bread had been unwittingly poisoned with a psychedelic mold, but now, however, an American investigative journalist

has uncovered evidence suggesting that the CIA peppered local food with a hallucinogenic drug, LSD, as part of a mind-control experiment at the height of the Cold War. But I don't know what the reference is to this. Because this is in the Telegraph. Is the Telegraph like the Daily Mail? Or is it more legit? I think it's in between.

Close. It's not the Guardian. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they have all these scientists. Well, they definitely were fucking around with LSD. The whole COINTELPRO thing. Oh, they have all these scientists. Well, they definitely were fucking around with LSD, the whole co-intel pro thing.

Oh, they did that with, there's plenty of videos where they did that with soldiers. That's also what the Harvard LSD studies, it's what created the Unabomber. You know, the Unabomber was a part of the Harvard LSD studies, and when they did him, after he got dosed up, he became a fucking nut. That's what happened with him. When Ted Kaczynski, Ted Kaczynski was in the Harvard LSD studies.

And that's one of the things they tried. There's a documentary on it called The Net. And it's about that very situation. Ted Kaczynski being a part of the Harvard LSD studies. They don't know what the fuck they did to those kids. They dosed the shit out of those kids. And he went from there to become a professor, saved up all of his money from school

just to be able to buy this cabin in the woods, live there, and plot the demise of technology. Yeah, he became a fucking complete nutter. I mean, whether or not he was a nutter before that, who knows? But the fact remains is that guy was a part of the Harvard LSD studies. And, you know, they're very secretive about what actually went on in those studies. Which studies are we talking about? At the Divinity School? I'll tell you right now.

Ted Kaczynski. Because they did studies with Divinity School students at Harvard, and then Leary and Alpert, now Ram Dass, gave psilocybin, I think it was, to some of their students, but relatively light doses as far as I know. Yeah, but that's the problem when you say that. As far as I know. I don't know what they did either, but if I was fucking up a bunch of people's brains

and afterwards people came to interview me, I'd say relatively small doses. We didn't create any Unabombers or anything. Have you guys seen that image of ergot under a microscope? Have you seen it? I'm sure I have. Have you seen that, Joe? It looks like mushrooms. It's amazing.

Yeah, here it is. This is 1959. Ted Kaczynski was, he was absolutely a part of it. 80 sophomores administer a series of scales of questionnaires dealing with various dimensions of personality. Pick 25 subjects, some extremely high, some extremely low, and some in the middle of each of these scales. Study 25 subjects over a year period by the multi-form method of assessment. Come up with 700 rank orders using a computer.

Obtain clusters of inter-correlations factors. The final decisions are reached after prolonged discussions and reassessments. Enormous amounts of data, which staff analyzes, interprets, and formulates while they're on LSD. Does it say anything about LSD? Yes. This is part one of this whole thing. They also, no evidence LSD was ever used.

Hold on a second. This is all very complicated shit, apparently. And it's hard to discern what exactly was going on during these studies. By the way, I just want to put in. I don't mean to interrupt you. No, it's okay, man. While you're looking at it, I want to put in a good word for the Unabomber. Good dude?

I'm not convinced. Great chef. That he's a nut. What? I'm not convinced that he's a nut. What? I think that he took his line of reasoning too far, obviously. He's killing people.

But we could say the same thing about all sorts of politicians and leaders around the world who kill people over an idea that they take too far. But I think his fundamental argument against civilization has some merit. I'll just say that. And then the other thing I wanted to say appropriate, whether that's at 18 or 16 or 12 or whatever. Generally prepubescent, though. And a pederast is someone who acts on it. And there's a, you know, that's an important distinction because I remember reading this thing in Dan Savage's column where somebody wrote into him and said, look, I'm attracted to kids sexually. I would never touch a kid. I, you know, but it's in me. I can't help it. It's in me. I want to. And I want to get therapy. I want someone to help me strengthen my resolve never to do this. But by law, American therapists have to report you if you express a sexual desire toward children. So this guy is fundamentally prohibited from seeking any help. There are no like group therapy sessions. There's no,

if you're that, you've got that in you. And we know that, you know, kinks of all sorts get placed in a personality and you can't get it out, but you can learn to deal with it, choose how to enact it or not enact it. But pedophiles have no opportunity for that. In Canada, they do, but in the United States, they can't. Yeah, they sealed the records from Harvard, class of 1962. They sealed all the records on Kaczynski, and they won't release them. But he was absolutely a part of something called the Murray Study,

and the Murray Study was the Murray Center. Seals Kaczynski data. This is fucking fascinating shit, man. They might have cooked that dude's brain. They might have cooked that dude's brain and created a monster. But you're right, though. He sees the future of the industrial society. That is what he was describing.

You're right that he sees, like, oh, my God, this can only go one way. But in his crazed state where he wasn't able to dance and play music like Alan Watts suggested, he was only able to focus on the finish line of the machines taking over the world. Yeah, and he turned into the monster. He's way bigger monster than the society that he was trying to destroy. And what a disservice he did for his message because now there's a fucking mail bomb underlining everything he did. So even if he did, even if there was

a bunch of good stuff, he shit all over his own work because he didn't have the foresight to understand that you can't, you're using the tools of the people that you're so angry at

to try to change the people you're so angry at. Like every terrorist, right? Yeah. Well, everybody who thinks that they're right. The Net is the documentary. The Unabomber, LSDSD and the Internet. Really fascinating stuff.

I recommend it. Very interesting. And, you know, the reality of the United States experimenting, whether or not they really did this with this French town, I should probably throw that into Snopes, right? Maybe Snopes will be able to tell me that it's not true. Let's Snope it.

Snopes is great. It's a heartbreaker, though. Let's snope it. Snopes is great. It's a heartbreaker, though, sometimes. Yeah, but those heartbreaks are important. Okay, French bread, Snopes. They must have it. It's just the message board. The message board is really tricky. They haven't.

Now that you mention it, though, I have read about that. Not that that makes it true, but I have heard about that in the past. Well, they do. I mean, we know that the CIA was dosing people. Oh, sure. There's no question that they did do it. And that's one of the problems with being a black and white sort of a person. Like being a yes, the government's good, or no, the government's bad.

It's really hard to be either or because there's a lot of crazy shit going on. And I find that a lot of these people that are never willing to entertain any conspiracy theories at all, one of the reasons why they do it is because they don't want to be thought of as a fool. They want to be a no-nonsense person. And a no-nonsense person almost always sides

with the official story. Which is nonsense. Yeah, which is nonsense. Many, many times. My favorite one is just the idea of the conspiracy of 9-11. Right. Which is nonsense. who did that that was a fucking conspiracy right i forget who i would like to give someone credit for that quote i don't remember who it was though i think what was one of us i think i don't know who it was might have been me i don't know it might have been somebody else but i remember that thinking that for the first time is like such a great and elegant way to describe the potential for conspiracy and that people don't want to look at the potential for conspiracy they want to pretend that everything is exactly as cnn tells you and other than that it's just a bunch of shit that's

a little wishy-washy to protect terrorism you're from terrorism yeah well or depending on what side of the fence you're on you know like we're you know if you're getting cluster bombs dropped on you by robots then you're that's a terrorist act. The most terror. It's a fucking robot that can't even tell whether or not you're the right guy to go after. Truly is a terror inducer. I mean, the United States induces terror in so many people all the time. Well, how about these latest revelations that they use metadata to find cell phones? They used the data that says that this is your cell this is, you know, your cell phone,

and they want to get you, so they shoot a missile at the cell phone, hoping you're near it. Like, that is one of the most evil, indiscriminate acts of destruction and murder that you could ever possibly engage in. You don't care if there's babies next to that cell phone playing fucking Candy Chase on it

or whatever these fucking games are that kids play these days. Candy Cluster, whatever it is. Candy Crush. Candy Crush, yeah. Saga. You're just shooting at a phone. I mean, the idea that you're just shooting at a phone. these fucking games are the kids play these days candy cluster whatever candy crush candy crush saga you're you're just shooting at a phone i mean the idea that you're just shooting a phone that's insane have you seen have you but have you seen like and then you see obama in between two ferns did you see him with galvanakis in between two ferns when did he do that today it

came out today whoa and you just see this really like like, he seems so affable. He's, like, the sweetest murderer. Like, you look at him, you're like, God damn it, man. He just seems really hip and cool and, like, but it is interesting how, like, they are using, you know, they're getting savvy. You know what I mean? They're, like, they're really smart about getting their stuff out there. I think he is cool. I just think you can't be anything other than the president of the United States when you're the president of the United States. It's like people used to say to me, why don't you say more funny shit when you're hosting Fear Factor?

Well, because that wasn't my job. My job was to sort of host Fear Factor. His job is to make a terrible analogy. I know I'm not making Fear Factor in the president of the United States. But I think it might be a good analogy because I think he's an actor. I think he plays a role, and that role is the role of the leader of the free world. And I don't think anybody's a—there's no leader. There's a bunch of fucking people that influence whoever is in the position that they call the leader.

And we don't see them. Yeah, and I don't think we're ever going to really get a handle on how the whole thing is fucking working. I just don't think we will. But you can get a good indication either one of two things about Obama. We think he's affable and he's very friendly and nice, which I agree with. So if that's the case, why has he done things differently once he got into office than what he said he would do before he got into office? Is it because once you got in there, he realized that this world is way more fucked and way scarier than anybody could possibly imagine? It's not inside the White House. Or is he just being influenced by some unbelievably powerful machine that he can't do anything

about? So he's forced to sort of placate these people that got him into positions of power and do their bidding regardless of what his campaign promises are. Either option is not good. But you do look at the economy now and it seems to be doing good. There's a drop growth. What? Says who?

The stock market's going up. That's why they? So-so. The stock market's going up. That's why they say it's good, because the stock market's going up. But you even look at, you know, the employment numbers are going up a little bit, but look at what kind of jobs those are. They're all low-paying jobs. So, you know, it's like they fuck with the metrics to make the message what they want it to be, right? Well, it's just, yeah, I am not an obama fan not an obama defender it's hard i just can't swallow the fact that he's okay you know blowing up wedding parties and stuff with drones and also

i it's hard for me to swallow the fact that he doesn't have the balls to come out and maybe he can't but i wish he'd like stick up for snowden and be like this is a whistleblower he did a good thing let's pardon this motherfucker well how about his pot his campaign website they had to change the the literature on his campaign website because they kept it up for the longest time But it was tough there was a very specific chapter or part about whistleblowers Yeah, marijuana is becoming legal under his presidency marijuana seems to be becoming Is that something you just can't stop? I mean at one point in time when when is this country gonna have an Arab Spring moment if they keep fucking with us and taking

Away personal liberties? There's going to come a moment where people are not going to want to deal with it anymore. And one of the things that's pretty easy to give up on is marijuana. Because by golly, look at what's going on in Colorado. They're profiting from it. It's become part of the economy that is always there, but now it's officially a part where they're paying taxes. They're making millions of dollars in taxes in Colorado for marijuana since February. I mean, it's craziness.

There will never be an Arab Spring here because the powers that be here are too smart. What they do is every time the pressure builds up too much, they let out a little pressure by electing, allowing to be elected a cool-seeming black dude, for example, or by allowing the legalization of marijuana, for example. That lets a little pressure off. Things, I think, at the end of the Bush presidency and with the economic collapse, the people were angry enough, you know, that there was something was going to happen. So they just, you know, like any good negotiator, you know, give something you can afford to lose to keep the other person from pulling out of the deal. I think that's what happens in this country. I think the mistake that happens in Arab countries or other countries where their hands are tied by some, you know, empire system,

they can't play those games or they're not predisposed to do that. They don't want to give up any power. So I think in this country, that's the problem. We're being numbed by technology. We think we tweet something, we've done a revolutionary act. And every time things really get serious, they'll give a little. Same thing in the depression, right? Things were really serious. First, they attacked anyone who had anything to do with communism in the 20s, the Red Scare. You know, then the depression comes along, they allow Roosevelt to get in there. He is able to pass some laws, social security, you know, taking care of old people, dealing with some of the sources of the greatest resentment and anger.

Neutralize those a little bit so we can keep playing the game. Don't fundamentally restructure anything. We'd have to have massive support of the people that got you into power to fundamentally restructure things. There's no motivation for them to do that. Right. They like it the way it is. Which is the problem that we were talking about earlier with corporations. They don't act in the interest of human beings, yet they're conducted and they're made out of human beings.

I mean, they're constructed from human beings and they don't like human beings. Yeah. But it's sort of like, I mean, and I hate doing this because it's a beautiful, it celebrates music. It's kind of like music, right? I mean, is music made from guitars and violins and pianos, or is music something else? I kind of feel like corporations are like that. They're like some sort of spirit or something that imbues the participants. Right.

You know what I mean? Oh, that's so weird. So all the people in a corporation are all possessed by this spirit, and they don't even know they're possessed by it, even though their entire lives are centered around it. So the spirit is manifesting through the corporation, and you're basically seeing one of the old-school deities that people used to worship way back in the day manifesting in a modern way through this organized coven

of people who all think they're doing the right thing or their own little thing or whatever and they don't realize that together they form a demon it seems to me also that everything fucking changes I mean if you look at the world you look at the universe you look at the birth of stars stellar nurseries you look at hypernovas the death of stars you look at all these different things like the whole universe is in a constant state of change. And our idea is that somehow or another we're going to reach some point of peace

where everything's going to calm down and we can enjoy our society and our golden years. And it's never going to happen. It's going to be in a constant state of yin and yang, a push and pull to the very end, to whatever. I mean, the existence that we're currently participating in seems to have those laws pretty firm the tide goes in the tide goes out the fucking planets spin around the stars the stars explode eventually the planets dry up stardust

becomes more people more people figure out the atom they split that bitch they fucking start making nuclear weapons they shoot to the moon they just keeps going on and on and on. Like an endless cycle of the same thing happening over and over and over again, constantly changing, constantly moving forward. Complexifying. Pulling in and pulling out. It's complexifying. Yeah. That's this thing I just read.

Complexify. Have you heard about this? How complexity doesn't seem to fit into the idea of a universe cooling down? Because of entropy, which is the opposite. Yeah. doesn't seem to fit into the idea of a universe cooling down because of entropy which is the opposite yeah it kind of flies in the face of everything that things are becoming more and more complex because what is what how is what things if the energy is running out it's things should not complexify they should simplify is that correct well that's entropy yeah yeah that it's it's running down to nothing so it doesn't make sense that things are complexifying and there's some kind of

what who knows what that means but it might indicate that we're like we the the the flow of time itself we're just perceiving it the wrong way we're like actually what we think is the past going into the future is actually the future pouring into the past. And the thing that's pouring into the past is some kind of super complex harmonized thing. So maybe it is possible, Joe. Maybe it is possible the great giant orgy, the entire planet just filled with humans somehow synced up together. Not the Borg, not soulless, emotionless things, but somehow we all connect,

and all of a sudden we're all this the universe is just spitting out ufos you're the planet is you know suddenly we're like spreading through all of space after we've like first harmonized we're change machines you know that's what we are we're we're a part of this whole gigantic organism that's known as the earth and it's a part of a gigantic organism known as a solar system Which is a part of gigantic organism known as the the universe? I mean, it's just one piece of the thing and we're change machines as a motion McLuhan said Yeah, and the multi McLuhan said that we are human beings are the sex organs of the machine world

And that's essentially what we're doing. I mean our whole struggle and This this desire for achieving things has a lot to do with that. It has a lot to do with us being a part of this weird process. Which is why that guy said it was selfish of you not to have kids. Because he's spouting the ideology of the machine world of which we're the sexual organs. He's also a dickwad who wants to get some brownie points for saying someone else is wrong. Breed.

Why won't you breed? Speaking of breeding and people getting involved in your business, why is it that right-wingers are so uptight about abortion? Because most abortions are poor people. And you would think their whole thing is demonizing poor people. So you would think that fewer non-white poor people would be a good thing from a right-wing perspective. And yet they're participating in creating more of them by making abortion a problem in this country. It's a strange thing I've never understood. It's a Jesus thing.

They don't want you killing babies. And, you know, they look at that idea of choice being killing babies, and babies are the greatest things you could ever do. How could anybody want to kill babies? Then why are they against birth control? Well, only the super religious ones are against birth control. You'd have to get to the Catholics. It's very rare

that you hear politicians talking about not being pro-birth control. Whoa, whoa. Not in most of the southern states where they only teach abstinence. Abstinence-only sex ed in schools. I think it's pretty rare for someone to actually stand on a platform of being anti-birth control in 2014, whether it's condoms or anything.

I think it's much more prevalent than you think. Maybe. I think it's standard Fox News rhetoric. Oh, is it really? Oh, that's so sad. Sex without consequences. That's really true. That's ridiculous.

Sex without consequences. Fox perverts are banging each other. So it's anti-pleasure because they don't want people having sex without consequences. Did you say Fox News perverts are banging each other? I guarantee it. God, Jesus, man. Who gets to bang Megan? What's her name?

You do. I wish. She's got to get friends. I wish. She's got to get close to the high. Okay. What about hate fucking? Are you a hate fucker?

No. No? No. I don't, you, I've never understood that. The thing like you're fucking someone because you're mad at them? I guess. Yeah. That just seems horrible.

It's not, it's not, I mean, I, the only time I would entertain the idea would be the Megan, whatever her name is, and Sarah Palin. You would hate fuck Sarah Palin I think I would I'd try to hate fuck her but I bet I'd fall in love with her halfway through sure why not what do you think would really appeal to you the most about her

cause I bet she's fucking cool oh come on she's so far from cool this is the terror of it all man it's like don't confuse the persona with a person. Who knows what's underneath there? I guarantee she's super charismatic, and you just end up being like, God, this is amazing.

Yeah, sure, fist me. I don't care. I want to see what it's like, Sarah. Wow. Fist me? Do you think she fists people? I don't know. Well, that's not the Megan I was thinking of.

But, yeah, Megan McCain's kind of cool, actually. I was thinking of Megyn Kelly, I think. Oh, I know who you're thinking of. She's very hot. She's very hot and really mean. Mean, uptight, very American kind of. And there's some of those women who do the financial shit. They're just so smoking hot.

And then they open their... Is that Megyn Kelly? Yeah, see? Look at that. That doesn't even look like You know she's standing on someone's face right now. That's her I want to fuck you pose. A guy's not allowed to do that pose, by the way, if you're a newscaster. You can't sit there with your fucking legs spread open

and your gym shorts, the blue ones with the white pinstriping. Do you guys see that thing where the newscaster says it's in New York and the guy's like keep fucking that chicken have you seen that no oh pull that up that that is the funniest thing ever it's it's live like 6 p.m news why does he say keep fucking that it's like a banter between the guy like the weatherman and the sports guy yeah oh it's like it's less than a minute i mean if you pull it up i don't want to i don't want to talk about it too much make a mistake i have no idea that's why i'm asking i thought

you guys might have a fucking that chicken he says that and and you'll see the woman's face when he says it the the newscaster woman just loses her shit that's really fun i'm sure if you just google keep fucking the chicken it'll it there. That's so funny when people on the news act normal for a second and it horrifies everyone. It's really hilarious to see their reaction. It takes a tough man to make a tender forecast, Nick. I guess that's me. Keep fucking that chicken. Okay, I'll do that.

Before we continue, the law symbol is found. You sure that's real? I don't think it's real. I think it's real. It's Ernie and... Yo, she look at her face. You think that's real? I think it's real.

I'm not... They apologized. They apologized for it? They did. Hmm. Well, he just got a little crazy. Who knows, man. These weirdo Illuminati people, they probably do fuck chickens.

Yeah, maybe it's like a thing. He just didn't want to tell anybody. Slipped out. Yeah, he probably fucks a rotisserie chicken. I bet he buys rotisserie chickens and fucks them. It would probably work. Ernie Anastas, right, right. Keep fucking that chicken.

What does that mean? Did he explain why? Who cares about the apology? We want to know what's it referencing. That's probably on drugs, man. I think they had a conversation before they were on air where the one guy was talking about fucking chickens and joking about it,

and the other guy just referred to it. No, no, no, no. Isn't a chicken a name for a twink? Isn't it a gay term, like a chicken? Now you're going deep. No, Google search it. Let's look it chicken no google search it i think it's let's look it up i think it is yeah why would you look it up you can fuck chickens because they have a cloaca where the egg comes out and the sex organs are all in the same hole cocks do not have cocks

that's a weird thing they don't they don't yeah they they have the cloaca which is this hole where they're like they do what's called a cloacal kiss, where the male and the female will line up their cloacal holes, and a little thing from the sperm shoot out of the male into the female. Wow. Hold on, guys. I've been vindicated. Can you pull that up, please?

Twink. It says the term chicken are also pervert down here where I highlighted it. They call them chickens. Fox, plum, chick, or chicken are pervert. Wow. Look at that poor bastard. Imagine if you were on Wikipedia and you looked under twink and they got a picture of you. That's funny.

Boy, you are a fucking twink, man. Who's that guy? That's like an old statement. That's funny. You want to know the word twink? Look up a picture of yourself in the dictionary. Wait, it's... It's a name there.

Brent. Brent. Was the best amateur twink performer. Oh, my God. Well, so he's proud. He's a proud twink. Wow. You got to be careful, man.

We can only have twink around ectomorphic build. You can only have twink around for another couple of years before someone gets unbelievably offended by it and calls you a piece of shit. L-B-D-Q. Can't say twink. Okay, I've been living gets unbelievably offended by it and calls you a piece of shit. LBDQ. Can't say twink. Okay, I've been living in Portland for like five days at this point and I've already offended some

lesbians. Yeah, you're going to overdose on political correctness in that silly town. It's so intense up there. I was sitting in a camper the other night and this woman says, I remember what it was, and this woman says, well, that's living in the white man's world. And I said, I'm not white, I remember what it was. And this woman says, well, that's living in the white man's world. And I said, I'm not white.

I'm Irish. And that didn't – You're not white? You're Irish? I'm Irish. It's different. Did she get offended? Did she get offended at that?

No, no, but she was confused by it. The late 19th, early 20th century in the United States and, of course, in England, Late 19th, early 20th century in the United States and, of course, in England, the Irish were considered beneath Africans on the scale of evolved human beings. That's interesting because they came last to this country. Is that what it was? No, just because they were rougher, harder to deal with, farted in public a lot. The things we all know and love about the Irish. Is that a thing? Farting in public? No, I just made that up. Sure, it's public a lot. Things we all know and love about the Irish. Is that a thing? Farting in public?

No, I just made that up. Sure, it's certainly a thing. Happens everywhere. No. You don't think it happens everywhere? Farting in public or just openly farting in public? I've never heard it ascribed to Irish people. Drunks.

No, I'm joking. People who drink. George Carlin. Yeah, beer. If you're drinking beer, you're cutting farts. George Carlin had that whole thing where he's like, you know, how come he talked about the Irish oppression and, you know, don't jobs for Irish and all that. But he was like, and what the hell is with the fighting Irish? You know, Notre Dame, the fighting Irish.

I mean, how is that not offensive, right? Like if you had the, like the lazy Mexicans take the field, right? Or the chiseling Jews. And he does this. The chiseling Jews. The chiseling Jews. That's a great? Or the Chiseling Jews. And he does this little thing. The Chiseling Jews. That's a great term. The Chiseling Jews. He's great. Yeah, he was awesome. He's the best.

That's funny. Alright, gentlemen. I think we're at three hours. Are we at three hours? Yes! These things fucking fly by. They fly by. They've been amongst the most popular podcasts that I do. And I know you guys are saying the same thing. Well, it's pretty cool.

The one we did together last time, I guess mine was the third, right, has twice as many downloads as any other that have been up forever. And the second is you, you and me. Wow, cool. Yeah, the same thing with us. I mean, these podcasts that we have are amongst the highest downloaded ones that we have. Yeah, the one. The synergistic effect. The one we did, for sure, is the most downloaded I've ever gotten.

They're really fun. That's great. They're fun. They're bizarre. It's a very bizarre combination. I don't know if you guys saw. I created a page that archives them. Okay, cool.

I'm happy to transfer it wherever we decide to do it. But for the moment, it's on chrisryanphd.com and you'll see try podcast beautiful and that's where the first three are archived yeah it's just a link that leads back to your site in your site cool we were talking before the podcast started about trying to figure out a name but we're not even close old men in the snow though it's pretty badass because of your description of what it is right but with people it's is it funny without knowing the story? No, you have to tell the story, though. Just tell people the story because I don't think you did while the podcast was going on.

It was before the podcast started. Oh, we were talking about techniques that adolescent boys develop, the good ones anyway, for not coming. And some people think of baseball stats or whatever, just something non-sexual to get your head away from what you're doing, which in itself is kind of a weird thing to be. You know, you're like having the best experience of your life and you're trying not to notice. Because nature wants you to come instantly and just shoot a load into a chick and make a kid. And you want to have a good time.

It's a strategy. It's very zen. Well, it goes back to sex at dawn. It's, you know, sperm competition. Nature's designed you to shoot your load get out of the way so the next guy can exactly and that's why by the way we're turned on by seeing gang bangs and dudes fucking maybe you are yeah uh anyway so my technique was to think about old people trudging through the snow like world war ii you know

crimean refugees trudging through that russian winter freezing yeah like that a babushka yeah exactly that makes me not want to come think of what that guy's feet sorry guys i can't come now yeah that guy's asshole imagine if that guy's asshole would you live the rest of your life if that guy's asshole was permanently an inch from your face what is a guy yeah what would you do for the rest of your life? Well, you can live. You can do everything you want. You can go biking. You can fucking go to the movies.

Go biking. That guy's asshole will always be like, no, right here to the right. You can move it around, but it always has to stay sort of like the moon is in your orbit. That guy's asshole, his raw asshole will always be right near your face. You know what? After a week or two, you wouldn't even notice it anymore. You say that. I would kill myself. I would kill myself.

I would kill myself. I'd push that guy with me off a fucking cliff. I'd enjoy my life. Farting in your face all day. Everything's perfect. No asshole ever lands in the wrong place.

That's what the Buddhists say. Hare Krishna. Yeah, okay. Both of you guys. And thus, ladies and gentlemen, that very conversation highlights the differences between us.

Okay, follow everybody on Twitter. Duncan Trussell, D-U-N-C-A-N-T-R-U-S-S-E-L-L. And our friend Chris Ryan, ChrisRyanPhD. On Twitter, Chris's podcast is TangentiallySpeaking, and it's ChrisRyanPhD.com. You can get everything on there. And DuncanTrussell.com, Duncan Trussell's Family Hour is his podcast. Both are awesome. And if you're tired of hearing me, listen to some of that.

All right? Get in there. Bye. We're also brought to you by Ting. Go to Rogan.Ting.com. Enjoy awesome cell phone service with none of the bullshit. And get 25% off. Or, no, what do you get?

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$55 worth of free postage and a free digital scale and a lot of good shit. All right. And we're also brought to you by Onnit. That's O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word Rogan and save 10% off any and all supplements. Next week, got a lot of cool guests coming up, ladies and gentlemen. I got Dr. Carl Hart's going to be on the podcast. Matt the Terra Serra, former UFC welterweight champion of the world. Amber Ly gentlemen. I got Dr. Carl Hart's going to be on the podcast. Matt the Terra Serra, former UFC welterweight champion of the world. Amber Lyon. We got a lot of shit happening. And thanks for

tuning in. Thanks for all the love. Have a good time. We'll see you in Dallas in a couple days, you fucking savages. Bye!