The Joe Rogan Experience - #471 - Matt Serra

Episode Date: March 18, 2014

Matt Serra is a retired American mixed martial artist and Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioner who competed for the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! Way, way back in 2000, was it like 2002 or 3? 2001 is my first fight. Was it? No, no, no, no. When I came to New York and you picked us up at the train station. Oh yeah, you and Eddie.

Was it 2002 or 2003? It was when Eddie was about to go for the Abu Dhabi trials. And I was about to fight BJ Penn. It was 2002 is when it was. It was before Eddie had even fought in the California trials. Yeah. The West Coast. Yes, yes, go ahead.

So it was 2002, right? It was 2002 because that week I was leaving either that night or the next night. I was driving to the Mohican Sun in Connecticut to fight BJ Penn. So that's why I wasn't was leaving either that night or the next night I was driving to the Mohican Sun in Connecticut to fight BJ Penn so that's why I wasn't on the mats that night I was getting my weight down the 155 so I picked you guys up at the Hicksville train station and it's so funny it was so you wouldn't even picture this now would Eddie I'm like oh I'm like hey Joe who's your friend I'm like you train jujitsu oh yeah what the hell do you you know and meanwhile it's Eddie you know

it was so funny but that's back when I had my school in East Meadow my first school that I opened up and that was good that was ages ago

that was ages ago and you know we had known each other before then but that's you know really when we became good friends that was

just so cool that you came and picked us up and hospitality my pleasure dude brought us some guys to roll with Drago was there really, when we became good friends. That was just so cool that you came and picked us up. No, man. Hospitality. My pleasure, dude. Brought us some guys to roll with. Drago was there.

Drago was there. I had the privilege of getting strangled by Drago. Oh, man. People would never know how, and again, this was ages ago. What were you with that, a blue belt? I barely was a blue belt. I just got my blue belt. It was way back, man.

Yeah. But people don't even know how good Drago was on the floor. Oh, yeah. He's a great black belt. Well, that's one of the reasons why I was telling him, I'm like, why do you always have

these rock-em-sock-em robots fight? Trust me. He tapped, he put Barone to sleep with an arm-in guillotine. You know, that's a tough, tough,

especially back then, there wasn't a lot of dudes who were doing that correctly. Oh, man. But he locked that thing up like a vice. That was such a, that's one of my, I swear, that's one of my favorite memories. Him tapping Brody.

Put him to sleep. Brody didn't even tap. He went on his shield. Oh, Drago. Yeah, well, Brody's a warrior. But, you know, Drago came to me when he was just a 17-year-old kid and like a street kid. You know, he was in Long Island, but he was over from a part of, he was like the only,

not that it means anything though, just the one white guy in the group. They called him Drago because he had the Drago, like he looked like the Russian from Rocky IV. And he couldn't get through a sentence without dropping,

I can't even do it justice, just he wasn't speaking English. It was fucking ebonics of just fucking shit in front of parents, not even trying to be rude. And I grabbed, I go, dude,

you can't talk like that. And he'd, like, what do you mean, man? Like, you had no idea. Like, how much,

you know, he wasn't trying to be a rude guy. It's just fuck after every word was normal. Fucking guy with the fucking thing and the fucking,

yeah. Yeah, it was, it was, he was a boy from the hood, but to see how he's grown, and for that fight, you know, it was really something special, man.

You know, because he's such a... He's like a little brother, and he's such a good guy. And I was happy to see that. He was a big underdog in that fight, too. Huge underdog. And when we first booked that fight, when we told him to accept it,

when Joe Silver called me, you know, he wasn't sure of himself for sure. He was like, man, if you guys, I'd probably get a few more fights first. He was a warrior. Don't get me wrong. Drago had battles from the first fight. See, when I fought back in the day, when they got me on a card in Long Island, they'd slip me in. People asked about my record beforehand. Long Island, like they'd slip me in.

People ask about my record beforehand. It's hard to even get into it because there was MMA rules, but one, it was, they have like Lou Neglia, a buddy of mine, a former kickboxing champion. He puts him in, they put on, him and Ray put on promotions, the kickboxing shows, you know? So he would slip me at this club called the Vanderbilt in Long Island. He would have a card of Thai boxing matches, kickboxing matches, and a freestyle grappling exhibition.

And that's back when, this is back mid to late 90s. And it would be me versus somebody in, that's how I got all my experience, you know what I mean? Once in the Copacabana in Manhattan, but it's hard to count those fights because the guys,

even though they were bigger and there was no weight classes, they didn't, they just, dude, I'd just take them down and smoke them, man. They didn't know what they were doing at all. Oh, forget about it, man. So what, were they martial artists? No, no, no, they weren't. Some of them were tough guys.

This one guy, this fight's on ESPN. It was on ESPN. Kamzat something or other. He was like a Sambo guy from an Army Sambo guy. And he said he was tough. He wizard me and I went to a triangle to an arm lock. Then he got out of it and then I got his back.

You get a tough Russian guy, you know you gotta choke him because they're not going to tap you. But I mean, so there was a couple guys like that. Another purple belt I fought who jumped the guard which was cool because I had to pass Scott Schultz and I had to pass his guard and then the arm locking and stuff. So some guys had some skills, but it wasn't like the experience you got like on the West Coast or guys that had been fighting the Midwest.

Guys back then, there was more shows. I mean, in the East Coast, there was nothing. You know what I mean? That's how I got my experience. My first fight that went out of the first round was Shoney Carter. i'm gonna bring this back to drago bro in a second i'm sorry uh my first fight was shoney carter's which went out of the first round but back to uh drago he got his experience on long island too and in jersey but by that time even a few years later he that guy never had an easy fight never had an easy fight. Never had an easy fight. He had some crazy,

crazy wars. Even back then, just, oh yeah, he had so many wars in the UFC, but even before he got in the UFC, and he was fighting more jiu-jitsu based back then. Like,

he had great fights. I don't know if you ever heard of Chris Liguori. He's like a very close friend of, of Frank Jaeger. Great guy. Really good fighter. I don't think he really got, you know, he might have

gotten a lead XC or something but was he fighting in Ring of Fire where was he was all he fought in Ring of Combat combat he fought he fought all over in New Jersey Tom combats the Jersey won a Ring of Fire is the Denver that's Sven beans right I don't know what the fuck we're gonna fire is I think that's but I know right but I don't really combat have good fights I know that's a good fight you know ring of combat the Lou have good fights. I know that. I've seen some good fights. Yeah, do they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ring of Combat's the Lou Neglia show. Right, okay. And Vengeance at the Vanderbilt is where I got my experience.

Then he upgraded it to Ring of Combat. So it's the same promotion, but... So when they would call it, what would they describe it as? Submission wrestling? What would they call it? Well, when they started... When they had you on the kickboxing shows? I think they didn't want to get in trouble.

Right. They were like, this is a freestyle grappling exhibition. But it was MMA. Oh, it was a fight, man. That's so crazy. So they would call it freestyle grappling just to slide it in. Just to get it in under the radar, I guess. There was no MMA back then.

I don't think they started first calling it then. It might have still been. They weren't calling it NHB on the card they're trying to get me on. What year was your first fight? and they weren't calling it NHB on the card they're trying to get me on. And what year was your first fight? 90-something, mid-96, 97? So the UFC issue at New York started in 97 because that was the first event that I ever worked at.

That was when they shut down the Buffalo Show and they made them relocate to Alabama because the night before I went to work for the UFC the first time, the question was, hey, would you be willing to do this in Alabama? We might have to go to Alabama. And I was like, yeah, I'll go wherever. Let's just do it. And so they were like, we're going to let you know the day

whether or not you're going to go to Alabama or whether or not you're going to go to Buffalo. They didn't even know. Was that time before or after you were on the news radio? I was on news radio. You were on news radio. That's ballsy right there because you're putting your reputation with something. You know what I mean?

If you were a young kid trying to get in the business, dude, that's before the fear factor and everything. So you weren't like the guy you are now where you had that fuck you money or anything. I don't know. Maybe you did. I don't know. No, I definitely didn't have fuck you money. But I was so dumb that I didn't realize how weird

it looked to other people. Nah, dude. Well, you actually saw something, right? Well, Dana White and I talked about it. It was like in the beginning, it was almost like talking about doing porn. If you talked about being involved in the UFC, it's like you're being involved in porn. I just left them and

I did that thing in town for the, it was at the fucking U of C global gym over in Torrance. They did a seminar over there. We did a seminar, myself, Longo, and some other guys, Dominic Cruz, DC, and Jessica. I just get the fucking execs to understand a little more about what's going on. And Dana just gave a speech. And at the end of the speech he said you know, back then, you know, you couldn't get pay-per-view. You could pay on pay-per-view for porn.

You couldn't even get that on regular, you couldn't pay for fights. You couldn't pay for the UFC and whatnot. Same reference. Yeah, there was a time where the UFC, when I first started working for them, all you could get was direct TV. You couldn't even get it on cable. They were banned from cable. Nah, dude hey man not to make a boat make us feel old or anything but my first

fight in the ufc was 30 ufc 31 i mean what are we up to and that's not even counting all the other 31 once i think i've been around the long then i look at i see the picture of you backstage with the mic and from you know you've been on the journey you You've been there before me. That was the day. That was in 1997. It's crazy how it goes, you know? Yeah. But, yeah, what a journey, man. I remember the first time in the Taj Mahal, my first fight with Shoney Carter. It was in the room, maybe this, I'll tell you, maybe a little bit bigger than this.

And that's the weigh-ins right there. Just a regular thing, man. It's funny. Dana White had hairs a while ago. Yeah, the UFC, mixed martial arts, I don't think it was officially banned in New York back then. They tried to figure it out, and then after 97 it became banned. So you were probably doing it pre all that.

You were in the middle of it while it was becoming controversial. Let me see. 1999, I was doing the Pan Ams over there. I used to just take one. I used to get ready for a big competition and then be like, all right, I'll fight a month after. You know what I mean? I'm already in shape.

I was never out of shape ever. Don't make any assumptions. Well, a lot of people don't realize how high level your jiu-jitsu was. Oh, yeah. Thank you had the submissions in the UFC. The best one was the Kelly Delante fight. That was his name, right? Yeah, yeah. Frank Shamrock's guy.

I wish he would have done something afterwards. I think he left. Did he? Yeah. I don't know. He was with Frank Shamrock and Bob Cook and them. Too bad he didn't do nothing after that, man. How many submissions do you have in the UFC?

Just one. Just one. Isn't that crazy, though, when you think about how good your ground game is? It is. It is crazy. And, you know, it is what it is. I wish I could say different. But I did still.

Jiu-Jitsu served me in every one of my fights. I mean, it saved my ass with fights where I was not the uh the hammer i was the nail like my carol parisian fight i one thing i like about that fight is that i might not have showed the best offensively but i took a beating and that that fight ended i was on top was i did i have anything to guess to do anything too much besides you know take away the angle or whatnot may probably not but uh it did save my ass from getting choked. It saved my ass from getting my arm broke. And that was when Caro was at his best, too. Oh, God, he was a beast. A lot of folks don't realize how good Caro Parisian was when he was in his prime.

Things work in mysterious ways, man. I mean, that's a case right there. Because when I fought Caro, it's a weird thing, man, because the winner of that got a title shot. And that night when I lost, it was my fiancee at the time drove up with my father-in-law. I had all my students there because it's an Atlantic city. I have the East Coast curse. All the fights I lost, I love fucking Vegas because I always won over there except for

the Matt Hughes fights. I still think I won that one. But fucking, you'd think I'd win a fight at home. Even if they were close fights, like my fight with BJ in Connecticut, I never won in a UFC at home. All my losses are over there. So when I fought, what were we just talking about? Matt Hughes.

Matt Hughes. Kelly Delante. Kelly Delante. But no, the one I just, oh, Caro. Thank you. Sorry, sorry. That's what we're talking about. When I lost that one I just... Oh, Caro. Thank you. That's what we're talking about. When I lost that fight, man.

Oh, dude. I'll tell you. I'm never afraid of taking a beating. I never was afraid of getting a beating. Not to be a tough guy, but you're not... That doesn't fear me. But you never, you never want to get fucking tied in there. And I'll tell you right now, you never want to get tied in with a guy like fucking Caro.

That fucking is ridiculous. So, you you know making it through that fight and and the point is this uh after that he got the title shot and you know i got a beating so he got injured he got injured he tore his leg and that's when he started getting his problem that he had and that's a fucking shame because he's such a talented guy he had a serious hamstring tear have you ever seen it no i didn't see it but i didn't see it but it that that led to the downfall i believe he flexes his hamstring it looks like he's like missing a bite in it now that's upsetting that's disgusting yeah you know but you can relate because you tore your bicep right yeah you know

what it's like but you know bicep when it tears it. You know what it's like. But, you know, bicep, when it tears, it's pretty functional. A hamstring, when they tear like that, it's really bad. It's a different thing. I fought Delonte with that. That was less than two weeks. I dieted my first time down to 155,

and I dieted all the way down, and then I was sparring. And Longo, I was on the crash course with my stand-up because, you know, it wasn't that I couldn't hit or anything like that but

you got to get your hours in of sparring you got to clock your time in like jiu-jitsu like anything else it's not just you know how to throw punches you got to get used to rolling with it you got to react if they're getting hit and keep your calm and coming back and that that takes that takes a lot of time so long go kind of threw me in the front he goes look you you got to be on the finish track you can't good Longo impression. You do it perfect. He's great.

He just left me that guy. You can do it perfect. You're on the fast track. You got to be on the fast track. You got to. You're already in the big show. What are you? You can't.

You know, you got to. So he put me in like this little guy. Walter, he was a Golden Glove champ. A little guy. Oh, that little fucker used to light me up, man. And I used to have the big coming back. I used to light me up, man, just, and I used to have the big coming back, I'm like, all right, I'm getting man and trying to hit him, and I gotta just, and then it got me, you know, those, those beatings, you know,

they, they're just, there's like, just the, and he was a little guy, so it wasn't knocking, and I have a good chin, it wasn't like taking his toll, it wasn't like I was getting fucking, I was getting whacked around. But enough to where you just wanted to fucking smash him. So you learn to still keep your calm and land your stuff better and not get as emotional when you get hit. A lot of stuff with the sparring. But it was one of those days where I was getting a little lit up. And it was one of those – it wasn't a straight right.

It wasn't a hook. It was a get the fuck away from me punch and i hit him wide like this so it was like this angle and my shit rolled up like a curtain so we were in the clinch and i'm like you know so you felt immediately to the oh fuck yeah i felt it and then we were in the clinch and fucking long goes yelling the break and i go dude i go i feel my arm he's like you know he's he's you know what do you and he knows i'm not i never i never even if i gas out i'm not gonna stop around and then He's like, you know, he's, he's like, you know, what do you, and he knows I'm not, I never, I never, even if I gas out, I'm not going to stop around. And then he's like, you know, you know, what is it? And then I showed him, he goes, oh, what the fuck is that?

Cause you could tell that the thing just rolled up. You know what I mean? So, uh. Are you supposed to get it fixed when that happens? The thing is this, I went to the doctor. I was, listen, I was, you know, right away, they're like, oh yeah, this is, you know, fucked. And I donated all, this is the first time at 155. My first time ever, you know, right away, they're like, oh, this is, you know, fucked. And I donated all, this is the first time at 155.

My first time ever, you know. So I got, this is like two weeks before. So I go, dude, I did not diet like this and train like this to pull out of this fight. If I could fucking fight, I'm going to fight. So I went to the doctor and it was a good, it was a cool guy. I don't know, I don't remember his name, but he was like an old school Navy guy, a doctor. So he was like uh so he's like look he's like could you turn like you turn a key and i go yeah i could do that he goes all right he

goes he goes then then you know then you could fight i told him i wanted to fight i go listen he goes if you could read he's like as long as you could do that motion you know you're good he goes we could reattach it but to be for like cosmetic reasons. So you don't look like a fucking freak basically. You know, so it doesn't look weird and whatever. But I didn't give it. Did you have to rehab it? Did you have to build it back up to strength? I fucking had to fight Delonte on it. And that's all I did.

Two weeks later, right? Yeah, around two weeks, I think. And so after you're done, you're injured. Thank God it was a first rounder, man. Yeah. And thank God, dude, I killed myself making 155. done you're injured thank god it was a first rounder man yeah yeah and that guy dude i killed myself making 155 thank god for a guy who deserves a shout out is fucking uh gil castillo from back i remember gil castillo good good dude that guy very good jujitsu guy i never i never wrestled

i wrestled a little in junior high and stuff but i um you know i wasn't no master weight cutter i just wasn't eating towards the end i'm like fuck this fuck this. I go, I'm still 163. And I remember being actually with Miletic, and I think it was actually Hughes, and we were at the doctor's. We used to do the doctor's thing that week. The day when we get there, we do all the tests, the blood tests or whatever. It changed now. But back then, we were at the thing, and they're like, well, wait a year.

And I'm like, I'm nervous. I'm like, 163. And they're like, oh, you lucky bastard. I'm'm like, you know, I'm nervous. I'm like one, you know, one 63 and they're like, Oh, you're lucky bastard. I'm like, what the fuck? I got to lose eight pounds. I didn't know. And again, this was in 2000 and whatever, two and one and whatever it was. And, uh, it's just, you don't know how to drop that weight the right way. So Gil showed up in town and I was a zombie dude. I looked horrible. I was just like little fucking Gollum from the Lord of the Rings. So he told me, he's like,

yo, man, you got to eat. You got to drink. What the fuck are you doing? He goes, your weight's this. He goes, you're fucking, you're there. You got lasagna. I go, dude. I go, no.

So he brought me right through it, and he walked me through, and he got me, he brought me back to life. So you were trying to get down to the actual weight and then try to rehydrate a little bit. Or else get as low as possible.

I wasn't, I mean, I knew a little. I heard you could sweat out towards the end, but I didn't have anybody helping me at the time with that. For folks who don't know what we're talking about, when a guy makes weight the day before the fight, oftentimes those guys are dehydrating themselves the day of. So what they'll do is they might weigh – like say if they've got to make 155,

they might be walking around at 170. And then they get down a couple of days before the fight. They're watching their diet, but they're not going crazy. And then a day and a half before, there's just no water at all. They piss like crazy. And there's different tricks to it, like the water loading. Yeah, water loading and distilled water too, right? Low sodium.

Yeah, you flush all that out. So there's a science to it. You know what I mean? So for folks who don't know MMA, that's what happens. They dehydrate, and then they weigh in, and then they immediately rehydrate, usually with IV bags. They weren't doing IV bags back then very often, though, huh? Pedialyte popular.

No, man, I'll tell you. You do Pedialyte, too. Pedialyte, like, at the scale. You need that IV bag, man. I mean, when I get to 55, I couldn't drink a Dixie cup, bro. I'd be, like, so thirsty, and I'd drink, and I'd be like, oh, I'm fucking nauseous, man. I mean, when I get to 55, I couldn't drink a Dixie cup, bro. I'd be like so thirsty. And I'd drink and I'd be like, oh, I'm fucking nauseous, man. It was rough. Are you amazed at some guys, like how big they are before they make their way?

Like, Glace and T-Bow. Dude, I was thinking the same thing. Unbelievable. That dude is huge. Unbelievable. I think he's a good size for a 170. Yeah, he's a big 170. He's a big 170.

I don't know, dude. That's just, that's very strange, man. He's incredible. He gets on that scale like a head and and then he gets back up, and his body hits something He still looks swole as fuck, though, even though he's weighing in. That's, it's, dude, I've, man, are you kidding me? He probably has the lowest body fat percentage and the highest muscle percentage. It's insane.

Of anybody in any weight class. Yeah, he's one of those guys that does that well. He can just do it. Yeah, some guys are like that, man. Because people think it's my height. It was like, oh, man, he's 55 or a blown up. He can just do it. Yeah, some guys are like that, man. Because people think it's my height. It was like, oh, man, he's 55 or a blown up. But you're so wide. I'm kind of a tweener, man.

I'm kind of like, if there was a 165, 160, I could have been one of the greatest. But it was one of those things where I don't, like I'd still have juice when I get down to that weight, but I wasn't looking too normal. If I look at the tape and Longo goes, dude, you couldn't, there was some weight cuts that were harder than others,

you know, but, and, you know, we, and listen, we always joke around about the, and don't get me wrong, I love fucking pizza and pasta.

I love it all day long, but when I'm training, like three months before, I'm a fucking, you know, I'm a monk. There's a point of diminishing return for sure

when it comes to losing weight, and then there's some guys, they go down too far, and they don't perform as good as they did. There's guys that have beaten world-class guys at 170, but they insist on fighting at 155, and they kind of look like zombies when they make it down to 55. Yeah, I mean, I think a guy like Diego Sanchez, he might not be a big 170-er, but for some reason he seemed more...

Like when he fought Caro, that was a great fight, man. And he was very... Dude, you're fucking depressing me now, brother. Look at Matt. Look at that fucking guy. Was that you weighing 155? You want to wash something? And look at his right bicep.

You see the tear in his right bicep. See how it's like in the middle. I could have got that fixed, but then I wouldn't have such a good highlight. Well, that jiu-jitsu't have such a good highlight well that jujitsu that was a beautiful triangle armbar combination is that what it was?

yeah everything went right in that fight thank god you know what's funny that night on the plane immediately I don't know if it was from putting the weight on I don't know what it was on the plane ride home in the next few days, chills fucking froze. That same night, I got really sick.

Not during the fight. I didn't feel anything. It's just weird. I'm just happy that shit ended in the first round. It's got to have something to do with your immune system cutting out of the way. I have no idea. Maybe it's the way I did it. It was fucking horrendous.

But where was I at? Oh, the fight. No, I took him down. I ended up passing the half guard mounting beating him up a little he got out of a tight choke the guy was a tough guy yeah he got out of a tight choke uh then i got mounted again i threatened the americana for the i still do that it's a basic move but i just threatened americana it's almost like you you threaten uh like you uh throw like a ball at your face, just a reaction. So anytime you do this, the arm comes up. I used to get it all the time.

And what would you do? Threaten the Americana? Threatened it. The arm came up, and I took the arm. And turned it to an arm bar. Yeah, it turned into an arm bar. I see. So as he defends it, he's defending almost his arm.

Yeah, you're mounted on me, and what I do is I'm mounted, I'm saying, boom. Here, the arm comes up. I really want this arm. Yeah, you're mounted on me. He has to. And what I do is I'm mounted. I'm saying, boom, here. Right. The arm comes up. I really want this arm. But I threaten this one. Boom. And then you spin over the top. Oh, yeah.

Oh, that's beautiful. I slide up behind it. So even if I don't get it, I could gift wrap him, take his back. Yeah. I still use that on good guys. That's a classic combination. If they don't do it, I'm like, I still take the Americana. So it's good.

If you have a good mount, it still works. I still use it on some of my brown belts. Gift wrap to the back, too, is another classic combination. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure, love it. It's like the Kimura to armbar, Kimura to fireside armbar. Remember with Conan Silveiro and Sakuraba? Yeah, yeah, I do.

First time we saw that in the UFC, it was like, oh, shit. They made them fight again after that. Yeah, that's a crazy story. Or was that the second? That was the second time they fought. Yeah, yeah, because the first one, yeah, they stopped. It was a crazy story. If you don't know the story, Sakuraba, Conan hit him,

and Sakuraba dropped down for a single, and Big John McCarthy thought that he went out. Yeah, and that's something he does in a lot of his fights. He drops and goes. He just literally would drop down to grab a hold of something, and he's really fast. And McCarthy thought he was out cold, and they stopped, and he's like,

what the fuck are you doing? I just grabbed his leg. So they started to fight back up again. Yeah, I guess they would have took it on the chin back in the day, I guess. Well, it's Japan, wasn't it? It's Japan. That's why I guess they do what the fuck they want, right?

I was going to say, they don't normally do that, man. They've never done that before. They made him fight again. That's funny. Yeah. I don't remember. I mean, they were that night happened I mean and Conan he caught Conan with a beautiful and this is back when Conan was like a

Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt and one of the big giant dude Those Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts back then too. We thought of like hoist Gracie like I saw hoist Gracie Oh, man, nobody taps hoist Gracie. So him tapping a wrestler. Oh, that was huge. Tapping Conan was gigantic. Oh, yeah. It was gigantic. That was really big. And that's when Sakuraba was just on an insane tear.

That was around the same time when Maury Smith beat Conan, too. Remember? He head kicked him. That was another big moment. Yeah. An extreme fighting. Half Gracie back in the day. Fuck, yeah.

Remember how Half Gracie fought with a wedding ring on? Did he really? yeah Remember Half Gracie Fought with a wedding ring on Did he really Fuck yeah he did He had a wedding ring on That's crazy Throwing hammers at your face You don't want that man Yeah pull up

Half Gracie Extreme fighting Wedding I see guys rolling in class With a fucking ring on I go hey dude I'd take that off man Did you see that one picture

From Brazil A guy The wedding ring Cut his finger off I'm scarred From like a As a kid I had a I'm scarred from like a, as a kid, I had a paper out

and I had like a, back then they had, I don't know if they still have them in glass, the Gatorades and the glass bottles. So I, boom,

I fell and I had to get my glass removed from my elbow and I remember sitting there and in the emergency room there's a big fat guy, right? And he had his ring on.

I don't know how he got that thing on and it looked, it looked like the thing was about to pop. It was disgusting he's like so he's talking to the doctor i guess we could try to cut it and that thing's fucking i don't know why but that just scarred me to this day i see that finger and i'm like there was a photo that someone put up on the underground like a year or so ago of a guy who his wedding ring bent down into his finger while he was training just cut his finger open like dig dug to the meat of the bone right right down to the bone it was horrible sounds fucking disgusting there's a gross photo of somebody who got their wedding ring caught when they're getting in their car

like onto the side of the cart and just ripped the whole skin layer off I so do not want to see that what we asking up to you guys. What were we asking? Half Gracie fighting with a wedding ring on. Yeah, I can't find any videos. Can't find the video? No. All right, don't worry about it. Trust me, Half Gracie fought a dude with his wedding ring on.

I remember watching it back. This is back, I don't think I was even working for the UFC. I was training at Carlson Gracie's on Hawthorne in California. Was that your first place you ever did jujitsu? Yeah. Well first place was Hickson's I took my first class at Hickson's but I only took one class Because I found another see I thought Gracie's jujitsu was all the same and I found out about Carlson's place And it was way closer for me. It was only like 15 minutes away. The other one was like an hour away And so I just started going across ins instead and I'd seen Carlson's on TV when I'd watched Extreme Fighting.

So I knew where it was because of the two bulldogs going at each other. Yeah, for sure. I thought they looked badass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Carlson Gracie logo was so killer. So that's where I started training, and that was right at the same time I joined was when Vitor fought John Hess in Hawaii,

and he wasn't even Vitor. He was Victor back then. He was Victor Gracie. He was Victor Gracie. And he wasn't even Vitor. He was Victor back then. He was Victor Gracie. He was Victor Gracie. And what's his name? John Hess was that big, gorky-looking guy. Yeah, Safta. Remember?

He had like a street fighting system. Oh, God. What a goofball. And remember he fought, was it Andy Anderson that he fought? He was eye gouging him. He was eye gouging him. Yeah, he was eye gouging him. I remember that.

Dude, I remember. I used to so, man, when the UFCs would come on, I used to get so excited, dude. I used to get the, I was such a fan from the very beginning. My first time ever being on the mat in jiu-jitsu was with a seminar with Horian and Hoyce in Waterbury, Connecticut in the summer of 92. So it was before the first UFC. And I remember they did this seminar. And I was into martial arts for a long time for my father. But I used to do like Wing Chun with him, just like sticky hands and stuff.

We had a wooden dummy in the garage. But anytime I got into a fight, it would always be – I used to fight a lot, I guess, as a kid. But not to be a punk, but it's just whatever. It's just what it is. I used to always grapple. I'd start off with a boom and a chain punch and then I'm banging the knee. I'm taking them down just instinctively.

You know what I mean? It's a natural way to fight because there's too much to control. It's hard to control things when you're standing up. There's too many variables. Go on the internet and watch two Wing Chun guys fight? Next thing you know, they're grappling. I've seen it. The worst jiu-jitsu match ever.

It's these two guys. They start off, and then they got headlocks on. They're falling down. It's fucking horrendous. Well, you remember there was that one guy that was always in the Black Belt magazine? Iman Banzazepi. Right? Right?

That's it. Iman Banzaz Tepe or something like that big guy ponytail yeah handsome bastard yeah he looks like a legit martial arts guy

I think he challenged another guy and next thing you know they're on the floor and he's trying to chain punch him on the floor it turned into a terrible

old school the worst fight you've ever seen two guys that just never practiced an arm lock in their life and they're on the ground slinging it out. So when I went to this seminar with them, I was just like, oh, man, there's no forms, no bullshit.

It's just all just moves. And then you try to hold them on the mount, and then you could try to arm lock. This is amazing. This is before the first UFC. Right. You could try to arm... This is amazing. This is before the first UFC. Right.

And I used to watch what really got me, what really got me, like, just on a mission to learn this, to go to that seminar, were those fucking Gracie in Action tapes. Right. Because I, as, you know, everybody's got the town tough. You're the kid in the high... Toughest in the high school.

I was that guy. No, I didn't walk around like a... I was the same guy. I was always good. I feel like I'm always a good guy you know people whatever but uh i was always the same i was i didn't always had an attitude like i could take a punch in the face just to give one and take one and whatever that kind of attitude right right but then i watched those tapes i go dude if and i had the chance to be run into a fucking brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt back then is ridiculous, but I did not like

knowing that there was somebody out there that if they wanted to could fucking embarrass me. And I go, I can't take that. It would be like, man, if I ever, ever tried, I'd watch these tapes of them, and back then it wasn't MMA, it was style

versus style. So I would watch the first the first one i watched and the first tape and i'm like man that's pretty wild man those are real fights and i was around 16 17 when i watched that i think and then i saw the second one with the when hoist is just on bottom he's on bottom he's on top and he doesn't care and then he gets his jokes on and and i'm like fuck i go i gotta i have to just i gotta learn this man and then he gets his jokes on them and I'm like, fuck. I go, I gotta, I have to just, I gotta learn this, man. And then soon enough in Black Belt Magazine

or somewhere I found out about that seminar. When I went there, it was so trippy because now looking back because they were talking about, he goes, at the end of the seminar they're talking about, and I was aware of them fighting with the thing, you know, with the Gracie in Action tapes.

But then they were talking about, oh, well, you know, my brother Hoy's here, he's gonna fight and Horian's talking. And it's, you know, this thing, you know, with the, with the Gracie and action tapes. But then they were talking about, Oh, well, you know, my brother Hoy's here. He's going to fight and Horian's talking and it's, you know, this thing, the ultimate fighting championship, it's going to be on pay-per-view and you know, if you know anybody that's interested in who's a guy that wants to get in it, like that type of thing, uh, who'd be qualified to fight, you know, cause there's a lot of martial artists there at the seminar. And, uh,

and I'm just thinking like, Oh, that's interesting. Like to say, fuck it. I got, they're not going to fucking, what is this blood sport that I'm fucking fighting it.

And he would say, Oh, we're discussing the, he was discussing maybe a, a moat with alligators. This is, this is real. Yeah.

And then maybe a cage. And I'm like, really? And then sure enough, I, we started seeing it. I go, Oh my. So then it so then it's dude fuck when i that was just such a it's such a for people the kids now that grew up on it it's such a different time back then it was just a just a life-changing experience yeah when i first saw i didn't see the gracing action tape i first saw uf. Did you ever watch them? Yes. You should. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But UFC 2 is what got me into jiu-jitsu.

UFC 2? Yeah, yeah. I watched a videotape of UFC 2. I rented it. You didn't see the first one? Mm-mm. No. I found out about it once I had already moved to California.

I didn't find out about it until 94. I was working out here, and I had been out of the martial arts world for a while because I had hurt my knee, and I had been out of the martial arts world for a while, so I'd hurt my knee, and I had my ACL reconstructed. When I was transitioning from Taekwondo to kickboxing, and then kickboxing into stand-up comedy, I tore my ACL, and for like a year, I didn't get it fixed. It was useless. If I'd move wrong, it would go boink, it would just pop out, and I wound up getting fixed, but during that time, I fell out of martial arts. It wasn't until I got back to California

and started training again. Once I started training, I was at Benny the Jet's Jet Center. That was when my knee was fully healed, and I started doing some kickboxing again. Then this guy came in who said that he saw this thing where this dude was choking everybody, and they had style versus style. I was like, what do you mean style

versus style? It's no rules and I was like you got to be fucking kidding me this is crazy and UFC one wasn't available on VHS I had Campbell McLaren in and Campbell told the whole story about how they wanted to sell UFC to first because it was the most current so they sold that one first and then then you would go back and get UFC one after that they have some fucking cockeyed strategy. So UFC 2 was the first one I watched, and Hoyce was so impressive.

Jason DeLucia, he armlocked. Oh, that fucking armlock was a thing of beauty. Pat Smith, did he fight Pat Smith in that one? Yeah. He choked him. Choked him, took his back. Was that the one with, no, Dan Severin was four. Who was two?

Who did he fight? He fought Ken Shamrock, too. Remember he tapped Ken Shamrock? That was the second UFC. That was the first UFC. Was it? That was the first UFC. That was the first UFC. Was it? That was the first UFC. It wasn't UFC 2?

First UFC because he grabbed the wrong way. I always refer back to that. He grabbed, not to the outside. His head was on the outside. So, hoist just boom and slipped on the rear naked. Yeah. But, um. That's in the highlight film.

Who the hell was in the second one? Because Dan Severin was UFC number four, I believe. Right. Because I remember that was big. And he ended up choking him. Now, I know it. I'm going to fucking get it before you Google it. We'll go to Wikipedia.

Here we go. What is it? When did Buffer come in? Like, who's this guy? Buffer was back in the day. That was Rich Goins. Yeah, I remember that guy. Buffer was back in the day.

Okay, so here's- UFC No. 2. UFC 2 is Hoist Gracie versus Pat Smith. Pat Smith versus Johnny Rhodes. Yeah. Hoist versus Remco Pardue. I remember that. Gicho, yeah.

Lapel. And then Pat Morris versus, oh, Pat Smith versus Scott Morris. One of the most ruthless KOs ever. Elbows. I'm surprised you don't see more. That was bad. That was really bad. Oh, my God.

That was devastating. Unbelievably good. And Hoist Gracie versus Jason DeLucia. Oh, so he beat Pat Smith in the final then? Yes. All right. And then this is also. I forgot about Remco.

Johnny Rhodes versus Fred Eddish. Oh, yeah. Remember that one? Yeah, I remember that one. That was bad. Dude, it's kind of crazy when you really look at all the fights that went on that night. That was good. It was a lot of.

Michio Ohara, Minoki Ichihara. Hoist Gracie fought him. Oh, yeah, that was right. He was bouncing around, the little karate guy. He took him down and made it look like magic. The Remco one I forgot.

And Remco took out that little tie boxer. What the hell was that guy's name? Oh, Orlando Veet. Yes. Remember that guy? He threw him and elbowed him. Oh, that was's name? Oh, Orlando Veet. Yes. Remember that guy? He rolled him and elbowed him. Oh, that was horrendous, too, because he was elbowing him while he was out cold. Nice guy.

He was out cold. Yeah. That guy, Remco, super nice guy. I went to Amsterdam once with a Brazilian buddy of mine. We were 23 years old, and we went to his place, and we taught a class there, and we rolled with all his judo guys, and he was such a nice guy. He went out to eat afterwards what a what a sweetheart of a guy i wonder what that guy's up to now yeah he became

a jujitsu black belt eventually right he's a judo guy and then after the hoist fight he got into i believe he did the winner received sixty thousand dollars back then of the 16-man tournament and the buy rate was 300 000 pay-per-view buys wow wow ages ago man that's a good buy rate was 300,000 pay-per-view buys. Wow. Wow. Ages ago, man. That's a good buy rate to this day. Yeah? 300,000 is pretty fucking sporty. Yeah, no, dude.

It was back then. It's just the way they were going was self-destruct, though. You know what I mean? Well, it was there are no rules was the thing. Yeah, they had a crazy gimmick with that. They were turning it slowly into a sport. But it was making pretty quick leaps. It was still a spectacle, though. It was a freak show still.

They made some pretty quick leaps afterwards. It wasn't like a Japan freak show, but it was. That was really gory, too, sometimes, because it was so mix-matched that they would have a guy, like a giant beast versus a small karate guy. And Manuel Yarbrough. But that guy lost. Manuel Yarbrough was the biggest guy they they ever had and Keith Hackney fucked him up yeah man over rich hand type of thing it was like a thing was like a tiger paw

some type move boom he caught me man people sleep on Keith Hackney that dude could flow I know they think cuz the mullet yeah well that was a big test for hoist getting past Keith Hackney. Because Keith Hackney could bang. He was like the first guy. He would basically get a hold of that. He was the first guy to use that key as a weapon where he'd hold it and he'd whip that arm around. That's the first one that

make you almost go, whoa. That's a close one. But then he ended up getting an arm lock from guard, right? I love it. Beautiful, beautiful arm lock. But it was against a guy who was real, at the time, a guy who was real dangerous. That was a big win. Oh, no, yeah, he was good. That was like a big question.

How would Hoyes do against elite strikers? He was trying out for the comeback, believe it or not. Really? Yeah, he was in there with the medicals with me. I go, fuck, I go key to acne. How old was he when he was trying out for the comeback? I don't know, he looked in shape, man. I think he's, because Gideon Ray trains with him.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they'd say that he still kicks ass. He looked in really good shape, man. I think he's, because Gideon Ray trains with him. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they'd say that he still kicks ass. He looked in really good shape. Nice guy. I was, I get excited to see these guys. Yeah, me too. I met him once. It was really cool to meet him.

Yeah, I mean, he's old school. I would like to meet the dude with the glasses. Remember that Canadian guy? If you're coming on, come on. Yeah, with the mullet. He did the jumping kick. If you're going to come on, come on. Him versus Steve Jenim. Yeah, I remember. Theyet. He did the jumping kick. If you're going to come on, come on. Inverse Steve Jenim.

Yeah, I remember. They got a saying where I come from. When you're coming on, then he takes the glasses off. Come on. That was good. See, you can find that, Brian. It's so ridiculous. Harold Howard.

You'll find that. If you're coming on, come on. Oh, man, that was great. And he was a crazy dude, man. Remember he threw a cartwheel kick? Yeah, and I thought the phone. He jumped and did like a forward roll with a kick. Yeah And he was a crazy dude, man. Remember he threw a cartwheel kick? Yeah, and I thought the phone, he'd jump and did like a forward roll with a kick. Yeah, he was, his big thing was hoist was, he got it.

He fucked one guy up too, right? Didn't he fuck one guy up, Harold Howard? He was a big dude, man. He was. He was like a karate guy, right? Big karate guy. Yeah. That was hysterical.

There he is. No, bring it from the beginning. Yeah, bring it back. My name is Harold Clarence Howard. I'm representing Canada and Niagara Falls in the Ultimate Fighting Challenge. We have a saying back home that if you're coming on, come on! See, that was different. That was for the Ultimate Fighting Challenge.

This is watched the finals Yes Yeah he tried a cartwheel kick He fought Steve Jenim Who was a cop He was a cop Yeah He gets fucked up here right

Yeah Yeah that's right Steve Jenim I think he mounts him This was hard to watch I think he mounts him And goes for the worst arm lock He stood up and walked over

Do you have the ending to that Kill that song Kill that song Do you have the ending of that fight The song is going to fuck us up anyway, man. You can't play music. Let me see. Yeah, he gets...

Well, he just... He tagged him. But it's the worst on-block ever. But he tagged him a few times. I remember when Jenim was going out. See? He tags him with an uppercut. Yeah.

He hit him with a couple right hands. He's going to almost stand up, if I remember correctly. Yeah. Yeah, he gets a lot of face punches. He's giving up the armbar. I think he stands up and gets the armbar. How bad is Harold Howard's ground game? Good googly moogly.

Oh, he tapped? Oh, he tapped? Who did he get the armbar on? Oh, they threw in the towel. He got the armbar on somebody. Yeah, it was somebody else. Master of jiu-jitsu on the ground. So me being a jiu-jitsu person, I can appreciate that more than the other competitors

because I am a grappler also. That guy's a grappler? No, no, it's a different world. It is a different world. They didn't really understand what grappling was. Yeah, they didn't know. Isn't it fascinating as a jiu-jitsu guy to see how jiu-jitsu has progressed since 93? I mean, even just jiu-jitsu, like the level that these guys are at now, the high-level black belts that you're seeing in the world championships, it's amazing to watch, man.

That's really nice. And one that just comes to my mind in MMA, a fight that I don't think it got enough credit, man. I'm sure you'd appreciate it. It was Jake Shields versus Damian Maia. Oh, yeah. That was fucking awesome. Because that's two guys at the highest level in jiu-jitsu. Like, Jake on top is a monster.

Guys who are good jiu-jitsu, good guys that he's fought, he passes and mounts, and they know what he's doing. He's still doing it. That's how you know. It's one thing with that move that you don't know gets you, but when you know a guy's known for taking you down, mounting you, and beating your ass, and he's still doing it, that sucks, and that shows how good he is.

So him and Maya just was, just technically, I really got to watch that one again because I was in awe of that. Yeah. Jake Shields can shut some fucking jiu-jitsu down too. And his endurance and his will, unbelievably strong. You know, I was blown away by how easy Hector Lombard was throwing him. He's a strong dude, man. God.

And he's got those nice foot sweeps. I love the foot sweeps. His fucking judo is ridiculous. I mean, he tossed Jake Shields at one point in time, and I was like, I don't think there's another guy in MMA that can do that to Jake Shields like that. The way he hits it, it's so fucking fast. It's such a, and it's an unorthodox, you know, I'm sure guys aren't doing doubles and singles to him with that.

You ain't taking him down. Hector Lombard's sprawl is a thing of beauty. He gets fully flat. He kicks all the way back, slams you down, and is completely flattened out. His sprawl is unlike anybody else's. It would be interesting to see in a longer

fight. Yes, that's the thing with him. It's a championship fight, I would like to say. I mean, I don't know if he, I don't think he totally gassed, but he put some reserves on in that last round. He put some reserves on. That was my point in that fight. He was supposed to be auditioning.

Essentially, there were some critical fights on that card. Tyron Woodley and Carlos Condit. That was a critical fight. For sure, Robbie Lawler and Johnny Hendricks was a critical fight. That was a good fight. It was a great fight. That was a critical fight. And for sure, Robbie Lawler and Johnny Hendricks was a critical fight. That was a good fight, though. It was a great fight. That was a good fight. But another critical fight was him and Jake Shields.

Hector Lombard and Jake Shields. Yeah. And look, Hector was in no danger of losing that fight except for that guillotine attempt at the last round. Ah. But in the standing and the way he was throwing Jake Shields around was fucking crazy. But then he would just stand in front of him. He's a powerful dude.

Yeah. You know? I just don't... I think there's only a certain level of conditioning you can have when you fight like that. I mean, I'm not doubting that that guy trains his fucking ass off. There's no way you look like that and move like that and have that kind of technique and skill unless you train your ass off. But I just wonder, a guy who's built that way that moves that way, I feel like you can't do that for a whole fight. Yeah, but I mean, with what? Trying to knock him out?

Five rounds going full blitzkrieg the way he does when he's going after you. Yeah, but I think he had some resting on the floor a little bit. Oh, yeah. No doubt. But I'm saying you have to have that. I mean, you've got to fight in intervals with that, obviously. You know what I mean? But if you're in that good of shape and you can calm your heart rate down,

especially in between rounds, if you're in that shape, your heart rate does go down big time. You know what I mean? When you're not in shape, that's when the guys die. If you're a five-round fight for guys that are really peak condition, that minute is so huge, man, because it

just gets you from barely being able to sit on the stool to, a lot of times my fights, the second round, I feel way better than the first round. Oh, man, now I'm sparring. I'm ready to go. You know what I mean? It's weird.

You feel better. I feel better that second round. I've done that in the past. That's how I felt in the past. But if you get on the floor and you get a little, if you could relax, especially he's in the dominating positions, within 30 seconds or so, he should be able to let that heart rate back down. Like you said, it's one thing if he's on bottom on the floor taking a beat,

and now you're getting hit, and you've got to get out, and you're losing the round. How much is it different? You fought at 170, you fought at 155, and you've done 155 how many times? Delonte, Delonte, Curran, BJ, Medjavar, four times. Four times. Am I forgetting somebody? So you feel confident that you hydrated enough, you did it the right way? Yeah.

There was times I, at 155, I never gassed. I only gassed in a couple of fights, period. I feel like when I mean gassed where it just really started to affect me. Like you were talking about the Caro fight. The Caro fight, my second GSP fight. I feel that just second GSP fight, if I was the way he fought that night, it would have probably resembled

some of the other fights that he's been winning where I probably would have lost on takedowns. I mean, that's just my self-talk. I'm not saying I would have... I'm just like, because I know how I lost on takedowns. I mean, that's just my self-talk. I'm not saying I would have. I'm just like, because I know how I am, and I just know by that second round, I was fucking feeling it bad. People are like, the knees. I didn't feel any of those knees.

I'll be honest with you. Before those knees, I took a nasty forearm elbow to the eye, where my eye, I was looking sideways. That's why I went to all fours, to try to chill. But I was already feeling it hard. And I normally up and down, up and down is the thing I feel. You had gone through something with your back too, preparing for that fight, right? No, that was actually the first fight I ever had to pull out of ever. And it sucked because it was my first time I was going to fight Matt Hughes. So, yeah, thanks.

Why don't you show the fucking first fight you cock I'm only kidding bro I'm only kidding I'm sorry man so but uh but

like what did what did happen to your back my back man I was um I was getting ready ready for the first of all the fights

I ever had to pull out of no I mean this is the first time I've ever had to pull out of a fight but of all my fights this had to be the time for me to get hurt where I had to pull out it just cause, I mean, this is the first time I've had to pull out of a fight, but of all my fights, this had to be the time for me to get hurt, where I had to pull out. It just... Because this was after the Ultimate Fighter.

So we went through that thing. Now, listen. And I'm not... And I've had how many fights in the UFC? I don't really... I talk when I get attacked or whatever, but me and Matthews, I've definitely said how I feel. Fully knowing that, alright, you don't like what I'm saying,

good, because we're going to meet and that's fine. Otherwise, I'm not going to talk to shit, you know? So now, now I'm the guy

who has to pull out and I'll get back to the injury in a second, but you don't know how devastating that was, dude. Seriously. Ask my wife.

First time she ever saw me with tears like that. Because, you know, it's like the pride of like, I got a fucking, I can't show up for this fight with this guy now

and what what was the injury two herniated discs L4 L5 I had I got done having a good training session

in my Huntington Academy and I was doing a lot so I trained smarter for when I actually did fight him it was actually maybe even a better thing that it got put off

you know because I just felt so much better. But whatever. I have guys put me in crucifixes and stuff and I'd be getting out, getting out. And after five minutes, get off, finish up with 10 suplexes. And it was just it was just it was a gnarly fucking training. And then I cooled down bullshit with the guys.

And a nice kid was visiting. He was from the Ultimate Fighter Show. Very nice juiu Jitsu Matt Arroyo Matt Arroyo Yeah I remember Matt Nice guy He's just Rob Kahn's student

Who's another really good Jiu Jitsu practitioner Out of Tampa Nice kid He was visiting He was staying at my house And I was bringing him bikes He was getting ready to fight

In the finale You know He asked me to show him A move from mount It was like a neck crank From like sitting on mount You know So I went to Show it to him move from mount. It was like a neck crank from like sitting on mount, you know? So I went to show it to him and I wasn't, it was nothing crazy. I sat on him.

I went to lift and next thing you know, it was like, I got hit with a stun gun. I was just like, Oh, and I went down and man, I wasn't getting up. It was, it was the worst that bat my back. And I got other shit done to me recently but that back shit was the worst shit I ever had to deal with

in my life I could not I couldn't I couldn't get off the toilet bowl I couldn't brush my teeth I was

I was especially when it first happened it was a mess I tried before I called off the fight I tried to go to

a chiropractor just whatever right whoa man they put me up dude first of all and i'm not and i know some people love chiropractors and that's awesome i used to go as a kid and it's great whatever whatever works for you you know i'm not anti-chiropractor but but this fucking guy's you know he's giving me a speech and i'm sitting there with my wife in the chair like all weird i couldn't even sit down

i'm dying i'm sweating from it. He brings out this little Tonka toy. He goes, now this is your spine. And if you see, he's putting the thing up and down. I go, dude,

just could you crack me? Could you do something? So, you know, he puts the Tonka toy away and then he tried to, he couldn't touch me. So he's like,

all right. He put me on this, on one of those, what do you call the ones where you go upside down? Gravity. Yeah. legs in yeah swing me around so he's like i'm gonna leave you here he put me upside down so i'm upside down and i'm feeling the whole time i feel like this leave you he goes i'm gonna be right back i gotta you had to go see a girl so he went in the other room and i'm sitting there with my wife. I swear to you. So all of a sudden, he comes, so all of a sudden

he goes, alright, you could turn over. The fuck, man, my wife's got to work. So she started, all of a sudden I'm fucking screaming, dude. I could, it felt like there was just a push in the small of my back, like a like a thrusting, like something So as you're hanging by your ankle. Oh, dude, he couldn't

turn, I was screaming, like a It was bad. So I guess just, he couldn't turn. I was screaming like, ah. Wow. It was bad. So I guess just, I don't know what it was coming back down. It was a mess. So I finally got off. I'm limping out. That'll be $50.

Here's your fucking $50. Get me the hell out of here. Wait a minute. He gave you, you had to charge. The receptionist charged me $50. $50 for hanging upside down by your ankles? For just a mess. I was desperate. I wanted to charge $50.

The ride back was horrendous. I remember it like, you had back issues though? Yeah, yeah. It was upper, upper, like my neck. I don't know what that is. I mean, that must suck too, but lower blows, dude. It blows. Upper, you can move around more.

You can get things done. Yeah, no, the lower sucks. So anyway, I Don't know what we're getting with this. Oh, yeah, so my I I fucking I had you fucking fine. You heal that I got an epidural a shot in my back Mm-hmm, and then I would just do like exercises for like therapy. I had to went to like my the team doctor. Dr Sherry she would put me through different routines. I would just rehab it, basically. How long did it take before you felt like you were going to go at it? The thing is this. It happened in December.

And no excuses. I took a beating my second fight with GSB. But I had to fight him in April. So I had to get back to him. Wow. So December, you have herniated discs. January, February, March, April. It was December.

It was December Because George fought Is that the time? No When the fuck did I pull out Of that fight? Was it December? I think it was December Did he fight George instead? Matt? That's what I'm trying to think

He did I think it was the New Year's Eve card There you go So yes, I was fucked the New Year's Eve card or something like that. There you go. So, yes, I was fucked for that. And then I had the – it was one of those things where I had the – I didn't fight for a while. George got hurt at one point. So we had to postpone our fight the first time.

Where am I getting? Boom, boom, boom. So we're just trying to figure out how long it's after the injury. Yes, okay, that's where I'm at. Okay, I'm doing the timeline. Do you actually fight again? Yeah, I had to fight in April. So that means four months. I mean, you couldn't possibly have had a chance to get fully healthy.

I didn't have my best camp. But, again, I'm not sitting here saying, oh, I would have fucking raped George. No, man, you know what I'm saying. I just had to ask because I was curious myself. I feel like I definitely could have had a better showing. Would I have won? The way he fought, he's so on. He's been so great.

Probably not. Or I might not have. I might have. But I definitely feel I could have won five rounds. I ask because a lot of people have that injury that's real common. I had a bulging one. The L4, L5 thing? Like I said, I had a bulging one, which5 like i said i had a bulging one which wasn't

nearly as bad but when my fingers went numb and my elbows were hurting like my elbow like the the nerve down through my elbows i knew it was neurological i'm looking so i backed the older nerve yeah the older nerve it goes down to the the two fingers these fingers speaking of speaking of the george fight really quick because you brought up the old nerve. One of the things I was planning on doing is fucking when he plays super tight was just pushing that head up and just snapping him with the fucking elbows. So if you watch that fight, you'll see the fight starts.

I go to hit. Ducks under, puts me on my ass. I push his head. I fucking crack him. Dude, I felt like my arm was chopped off. Now, if I sit here too much like this, to this day, it bothers me. But I severely bruised my ulnar nerve. I couldn't feel.

It was the weirdest feeling. It feels like my arm was cut off. I'm like, what the fuck was that? He forces half guard, passes my knee line. They're chanting, fuck you, Sarah. And I'm thinking, this is a fucking horrendous start to this fight i go this is just fucking all i go can we start over oh man so to this day oh no that was fucked for that was i couldn't feel shit it was i might not i get numb if i sit here like this

too long i'll get numb so when you were fighting did it? Did your right arm work? It worked, but it was – You couldn't feel it? Oh, fuck. It was like – do I have his neck here? What do I fucking – it was weird, dude. So as you're grappling, you're not feeling your hand? I'm seeing what I'm feeling, but I'm – no, I don't feel shit in my hand. That was – my first three fingers, they were like that for a while where I went to the doctor. And that's how I – I didn't know what the my hand That was My first three fingers They were like that

For a while Where I went to the doctor And that's how I I didn't know what the Fucking ulnar nerve is That's when he says You severely bruised This nerve

You know So while you're grappling While you're punching him You're not feeling your hand I suppose not I don't I don't recall it I remember feeling it

Right away saying In between rounds I'm telling Juan I don't know The fuck I did Or whatever but it yeah it sucked it fucking sucked but uh that's the ulna nerve man and then after that in sparring sessions because that i fought after that i've gotten kicked there oh right oh it sucks it's more than just a funny bone it's more it's like a fucking my arm's off like in sparring and stuff, even with the shin pads.

So out of all the shit that you've had go wrong, whether it's the herniated disc in your lower back, the ulnar nerve in your elbow, or the most recent thing, what's been the one that fucked you up the most?

Well, it's weird. The most recent thing with the blood clot thing. Yeah, you had a blood clot for those, tell the whole story because it's kind of crazy. Yeah, that,

see that was scary in the big picture because of how serious it was. Jamie Levine just died of blood clots. Really? You remember Jamie Levine of the W-E-F? E-C? No, W-E-F, whatever it was.

That's fucked up. I don't know how his thing happened, but mine's very strange. I have something that I learned what it was when I got admitted when they did the the test, it was called Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. What is that? I remember because my wife – I always would forget. Thoracic, what is it? It's like Thor.

You like Thor? Thoracic. I go, all right. So I'm like Thor, Thoracic. I'm like, okay. You like Thor. Because we watched The Avengers. But anyway, where was I?

So I was training. No, first of all, I was getting a pain in my side. Just, I'd go to sleep and I'd be like, yo, I can't lay down, man. I don't know what the fuck this is. Hard to describe. It was, I know it felt inside though. So it was going on for a few days. I go, I got to check this out.

I went to a doctor. I got to check this out. I went to, um, doctor, I got a, um, an x-ray. Are you sure you didn't like, um, you sure you didn't, uh, you know, get kicked there or something? I think I'd remember if I got kicked in my ribs, you know, but, uh, no. So whatever. So they thought I had, I think they thought I had bronchitis or something inside, you know? So I took, so I went on some antibiotics. And then after a little bit, I, you know, it was, I was dealing with it. I was training one day. I was rolling with my guys and my fucking, my left arm blew up, blew up. It just was like, it looked diesel.

It looked like I had a big pump. And what's funny about this, I have no right arm. So I look like fucking hell boy. I'm like, you know? So I got, I didn't know what the fuck it was. I'm like, what the hell is this? This was on a Wednesday night. So then, whatever, I slept.

I thought I just pulled something, but it felt, something felt a little weird, you know? So then, Friday night, road trip with Drago down to AC. We got to corner some guys and that night I'm like dude I go I can't even touch my collarbone it was getting to here I go this ain't right I gotta go to the doctor when I'm back

so we slept over Friday night Saturday night I go back and I'm still thinking I'm still holding off I'm like I just drove back from AC, but I was tired. You know what's bad when I let Drago drive. So fucking, you know, I don't know if we were going to wake up. But, you know, I remember just sleeping, man,

and then just sleeping the way home. And then when I got to my in-laws, I went and I took a nap again, and I was just feeling like a little off, you know, but I still, I'm like, I don't feel like going to a fucking waiting room, I went and I took a nap again and I was just feeling like a little off, you know, but I still, I'm like, I don't feel like going

to a fucking waiting room and, you know, it's annoying. So we went back to my house after my in-laws. Now it's like 2 a.m. We got the kids in bed and I remember just saying,

I gotta go to a fucking ER, man. Something's up. Your body knows when something's wrong, man. And I go, I don't want to go to sleep and fucking, I don't know what the fuck.

So my wife at the time was like eight months pregnant you know because this happened in march or and my kid is born in april 21st so yeah so this was she was like you know she was all big and everything and and i she wanted to go with me and drop the kids back off my endless like i go don't and she was fighting me with that you fight me with this and i the kids back off my endless. I go, no, no, no. I go, don't. And she was fighting me with that. I go, you're fighting me with this. And I got to get to the fucking hospital. I go, you got to. So she wanted to come with me.

She didn't want me going alone. Meanwhile, I'm still thinking it's nothing serious. I end up convincing her I'll call you when I'm there. It's probably nothing. So I go get checked out. And I remember the lady that's checking me, like, you know, filling out the work for me to, checking me in or whatever it is. She was, so, you know, why do you think it's, I thought it was infected or something. Like,

I infected something, you know. And she's like, why do you think it's infected? I go, I go, look at the size of it is one. I go, you know, I could have pulled something. I told him what I do, you know. And they're like, all right, well, it's probably, we'll just, you know, most likely we'll give you anti-inflammatory, but just get it checked out. So this kid that took me up, he used to do some jujitsu. I didn't know. We were talking because he saw the fights, so he was bullshitting. And we were talking, and I remember he was doing the thing on my arm to check for blood clots.

I go, blood clots? I go, what the fuck is that? He goes, ah, he goes, he goes, most. You don't got nothing, but just, you know. So he was looking, we're talking, and then he got quiet. And I'm like, I go, did you find, he can't tell me. He can't tell me what's up because it's not his place to say anything, you know. But meanwhile, we're at bullshit. I go, did you see something on there?

He goes, uh, uh. He's like, uh, no, he was, uh, you know. I go, dude, go give me a couple of nods if it's a yes or no. I go, what the fuck, what'd you find on there? He goes, ah, maybe a little something. I go, you know, you a couple of nods if it's a yes or no. I go, what the fuck? What did you find on there? He goes, maybe a little something. I go, you know, you'll talk to the, you know. He wasn't downplaying it, but I saw the look in his face.

All right, you got something in there. So, you know, they brought me downstairs. And then they did a, what is it, a CAT scan? A CAT scan. MRI maybe? I'm not sure. I think CAT scan is your brain, isn't it? Maybe it was. It probably is, dude. What is it? A CAT scan? A CAT scan. MRI maybe? I'm not sure. I think CAT scan is your brain, isn't it? Maybe it was.

It probably is, dude. What is it now? What the fuck did they do? Well, they did the whole body. It wasn't an x-ray because x-ray shit wasn't showing up. Right. Whatever it was, they did another test on me. And then they're fucking coming in like gangbusters.

Like, all right, they gave me immediately a needle to stick in my belly for the um blood thinner so like boom they give me that and then they're explaining to me that uh all right we found blood clots in your arm and it traveled to your side that's what i was feeling in my side and i still don't know the severity of it i'm like i go so like oh you got to get on blood thinners and the acting nurse that day, acting doctor or whatever, this was about to change shifts there because I was there all night anyway.

So, I'm like, blood thinners. I go, I go, how long do I got to take that? And she, the lady told me I have to be on it for life

and she told me right whenever because it's stuck in my head. I go, I can't be on blood thinners for life. I don't know what the fuck is going, you know, this is all big happening. I go,

I can't be on that, man. I can't fuck it. What the fuck am going on. You know, this is all big happening. I can't be on that, man. I can't fuck it. What the fuck am I going to do with that? So it was kind of a bummer. So I called my wife. She's flipping out. She comes down. And she's a mess, you know.

And she's, you know, she is an emotional mess. But so then, long story short, even though I'm making it long, is they found out I have something called, my collarbone and my first rib was compressing a vein or an artery or something where it's stopping the blood flow, causing these blood clots. So what they have to do is go in, they cut in through my armpit, and they had to do, I got a hole in my fucking hoodie. The fuck, fuck man Come on It's a fucking new hoodie I think I flexed I don't know

Where was I So they go in through your armpit So they go in through my armpit Yeah now I can show you the scar And They had to put me out And they had to go in They had to take out my first rib

Because it opens up The underneath So then the blood flow goes that's great how many ribs you have fuck i don't know but i have less less one now how many do you know how many ribs marilyn manson has two less you know and i asked the guy i asked the fucking dog is there any perks to this can i suck my own cock no that's a rumor that fucking sucks imagine if you could only suck your own cock on the left-hand side. Your head leads. Fucking strange.

So I'm like, yeah, I heard something. There's a rumor about that. So they cut the rib out. They cut the rib out, man. What does that feel like? It felt just numb. Like it was just, well, first they went in through my bicep, and they took the ones out of my bicep

somehow that for some reason that fucking killed me man i remember if you don't take the pain medicine like if you have to catch up to the pain like in other words if you get hit and you're feeling it it's worse than if you already are on morphine or something you know what i mean like that's that's what they say so like don't wait to tell us if it's if it's hurting you just tell us right so if i'm not saying anything and then i'm like that's all right maybe i'm like yeah one to ten i go all right this shit's a fucking 13 i go give me just dope me up do something but uh the one with my inside yeah that was uh it was just just all numb and it looked really nasty and so they cut the rib out. They cut the rib out. I mean, I got a scar, like, a little bit. Does it limit your movement in any way?

It's so wet. Nah, man, I'm cool now. I'm rolling again. I mean, I couldn't do shit for, like, months afterwards. Even after two months where I felt I wanted to do something, I was still on that blood thinners for another couple months. So you're not on blood thinners anymore? No, no, I'm not.

So they said you had to take it for life. Yeah, they originally said that.. No, no, I'm not. So they said you had to take it for life. Yeah, they originally said that. They said, no, why? Because this, this,

this thing I have, thoracic outlet syndrome is a very rare thing. Cause I remember as the Dr. Hines, cool guy, 65 year old guy. And, uh,

you know, just, it's a nice, just a nice dude. And, um, I was talking to him about, you know,

I never got surgery and all my UFC fights, even that thing with my back, I never had to get surgery ever. You know, the most I got is to him about you know I never got surgery in all my UFC fights even that thing with my back I never had to get surgery ever you know the most I got is some stitches you know so um what potion are you fucking making it making some bulletproof coffee oh dude I would love something I got some for you don't worry about it so keep going with the whole so uh it's such a rare thing the this I go how do you do a lot of these surgeries I guess you gotta ask these fucking questions, you know, before you get cut open.

So he goes, nobody does a lot of these. He goes, I do like four a year because it's very rare. I go, I won the fucking shitty lottery then, I guess. Do you like it sweet? You ever have seen Stevia? Do you know what Stevia is? Yeah, I'll take it sweet. No milk or anything, no.

Black and sweet. Did you have to change your diet in any way because of this? No. Thank God they said no. Imagine they say no sauce. You can't have any sauce. Would you be able to deal with sauce? Have you ever had spaghetti squash?

You know Anthony Giordano, right? Why does that sound familiar? Anthony from the UFC, director of the Anthony stopped he cut back on the the bread yeah and one of the things that he did was he went with spaghetti squash what is spaghetti squash squashed it looks like a noodle it looks like how does it taste tastes great he's like yeah throw marinara sauce yeah I'm gonna try that I'm gonna don't let me forget. I'm going to try that. I'm going to.

Don't let me forget that. Because if a good. Spaghetti squash? Yeah. Wait, you get that whole foods or something? Yeah. You bake it in the oven and then you scoop it out. And with a good marinara sauce.

Oh, you bake it. Yeah, it's a squash. It's crazy. No, because I have the homemade sauce. My in-laws, they make the sauce. It's homemade. Thank you, bro. It's still not going to be as good, I'm going to tell you right now, as real pasta.

It's just not. There's something about, there's something satisfying about the gumminess of real pasta. But you know what? I have a decent balance, maybe a little imbalanced because I do love the pasta. And I'm the type of guy now where, like, I'm taking my kid to dance class, and she's like, Daddy, let's go next door and get some pizza.

I'm going to, yes, I'm going to have a slice of pizza with my kid. And I'm just enjoying myself with that. But there should be a balance. There always should be a balance in life.

Well, I've never had gluten-free pizza. It doesn't suck, but they have gluten-free pasta that's fucking badass. Really? It's a rice-based pasta. What is the problem

with gluten? Is it really that bad, the gluten? It's not that bad. Is brown rice considered gluten? No. Because people are like, you can't have gluten.

No. What the fuck? I don't believe brown rice is gluten. No? I think gluten is just wheat. The issue is gluten is a type of protein, and your body has a hard time digesting certain types of breads and wheats. And one of the reasons being, one of the big theories behind it is that they made wheat and bread a lot tougher

so that they could deal with pesticides and so that it could grow. So it's not the old school stuff that you used to get back in the day. Exactly. That's what you're saying. Apparently around the 1950s they changed it. Yeah? And the gluten and the bread that you're eating now,

it's just hard for your body to digest. It's easier for your body to digest things like Ezekiel bread, like sprouted wheat bread is easier for it to digest. But the reality is just all wheat. Wheat's kind of tough. It's not that it's bad. Like you can eat it. It's just moderation.

So you're better having the regular Wonder Bread than having some whole wheat bread? No, that's wheat too. That's wheat too. That's gluten. Oh, yeah? What, the white bread? Yep. Yeah, that's got gluten in it.

Yeah, wheat has gluten in it. Pasta, all white pastas, all gluten. That's all gluten. Dude, all right, listen. But I'm telling you, you can get some gluten- it pasta all white pastas all gluten that's all gluten dude all right listen but i'm telling you you can get some gluten-free pasta the gluten-free pasta the fresh stuff is not fucking bad i had some fresh linguine the other night yeah it's hard to tell the difference it really is but i'm gonna uh i'm gonna look into that i am i know i know how to fucking definitely know how to fucking drop weight i do it every time i gotta fight but i gotta i like the gluten-free

pasta that might actually help out. I'm telling you, it's not bad. It's like a rice-based pasta. How is the rice pasta? Is that good? The dry stuff's not good. It seems to me like the dry stuff, you know, the dry shells or, you know, little different

what are the little fucking, like, ziti and things along those lines. What do you mean? Yeah, it's dry, and then you throw it in the water. Yeah, but how do you get this stuff? You've got to get fresh. In Whole Foods, they have the squash?

Well, no, not just squash. We're talking about pasta, about gluten-free actual pasta. But the fresh stuff is what you want. So it's like it's already soft, and you throw it in, and you boil it for like a minute. It's like the noodle. Yeah, but where do you get it? So it's like it's already soft, and you throw it in, and you boil it for like a minute. It's like the noodle. Yeah, but where did you get it? Did your grandmother make fresh pasta? Did your grandmother make like from scratch like pastas?

No, no. My in-laws do like that. They do the mignocchi. Have you ever had mignocchi? Yeah. My grandmother was from the boat. Oh, yeah? Both my grandmother and my grandfather came from Italy, and my grandmother used to make

homemade sauce. They used to grow tomatoes, and my grandmother would make homemade pasta. Like, everything was homemade. And you got used to that taste. It's a very different taste than the dried pasta. Like, dried pasta is still really good, but it tastes different than fresh pasta. Dude, I could talk about pasta. But fresh gluten-free pasta is pretty fucking good.

Yeah. It's not bad. The dry stuff tastes like shit. The fresh stuff, pretty fucking good. And they have a huge difference as far as... Oh, yeah, pretty fucking good. Yeah. It's not bad. The dry stuff tastes like shit. The fresh stuff, pretty fucking good. And they have a huge difference as far as... Oh, yeah. You feel better. Yeah.

Your body just digests it easily. Yeah. No, listen. It's not the best training food, the pasta and the pizza. You should definitely... It's just kind of gummy. ...do that on the weekends. Yeah.

It makes you feel bloated and whatnot. Yeah. It's fucking good, though. It's great, though. Great pizza. Brian, am I lying? Is it good? Good pizza? It's the best fucking pizza. Come on, man. It's just real hard for your body to digest. Yeah. It's fucking good, though. It's great, though. Great pizza. Brian, am I lying? Is it good? Good pizza?

It's fucking great. Come on, man. It's just real hard for your body to digest. Yeah. That's all it is. But it's, you know, if you're hungry, you should eat it. You know, it's not like, it's way better to eat it than to be starving. Yeah, you got to have a balance.

It's like passing the guard. You need some balance. Just the taste of it, though, it's hard to fuck with. Apparently, it's very addictive, though. What's that? Gluten. Gluten and sugar. Yeah, it's like pastas with apparently it's very addictive though what's that gluten gluten and sugar really yeah it's like you know what it's funny because what i used to do when i would and this is going back to my early days of training i would be like oh i can't wait

to eat the my pasta and this and that i would almost have to get myself to get into it again because i'd have it to be like oh i'm so used to eating clean that i'd be like oh you gotta try that try that coffee it's delicious i've been sipping it the whole time. And the stevia. Stevia is fucking fantastic for you. It is? Super strong. What about Truvia?

I don't know what that is. Throw that shit on the floor? You mean Truvia? I don't know. But you don't need it. Whatever it is. I think it's called Truvia. It's probably a brand of stevia,

but it's just a stevia extract from a plant. No sugar at all. I gotta throw that Splendor on the floor, you're saying. Oh yeah, this is way better for you.

Way better for you. I don't know how the fuck they make Splendor, man. I know, yeah. This is way better for you. Way better for you. I don't know how the fuck they make Splendor, man. I know, but that stuff comes from a plant. That's fucking delicious. Not bad, my friend. I love it, too. You know I'm a coffee guy. I am an espresso guy.

You know what I used to take all the time before I used to? Longo used to put me. I never had a, you know, people have different, now they have a personal trainer, they have a boxing trainer. Longo was my, I had Henzo for jiu-jitsu, and he had the other guy take care of not only the striking, the sparring, but the conditioning. Longo used to always get me...

Longo used to get me conditioned for just grappling matches. Really? Oh, fuck, man. I used to gas out some of these Brazilians back in the day when they used to just... They'd fade out after a while. Where did Longo learn his shit? Man, he...

I don't know. He was a mixture of just... He had the versiclimb back in the day. I did that thing forever before it became a popular thing. That thing was, I fucking hate that thing. I hate that thing. That thing is brutal. That thing could make you, that thing makes you want to stop. It makes you want to quit.

I hate that thing. I used to do 15 minutes on that thing. 30 seconds slow, 30 seconds, bop, bop, bop. I used to do the fight on it. He used to take me to the fucking Herrick's High School,. I used to do the fight on it. He used to take me to the fucking Herrick's High School and I used to run this hill.

That's probably why I got fucking back problems. I should blame Longo. But I used to do, like for the BJ Penn fight and some of my earlier fights, I used to go up this fucking hill

just bah, bah. Five minutes, tight pants at the bottom, back up, sprinting. Longo put me through some great, great conditioning.

Conditioning was one thing I prided myself in because I used smarter takedowns and different strategies to get the fight to the floor as I got older. But I used to just bull rush and double,

single, double, just get against the cage. Basically, I would call it just a fucking bum rush. Jiu-jitsu bum rush. Just get a hold of him. And, you know to take

downs from the clinch is so much it's so much a better it's so much a better game for the for the fight game as far as with conserving energy and whatnot but uh but i was in such condition for from fucking longo you know what i mean through doing these fucking workouts longo's a maniac didn't he oh he's a he's a great character i love listening to him in between rounds there's videos of you guys both giving instructions in between rounds. No, he's a, the guy is a genius in what he does, man. Standing up, it just, like, I know my role. That's why I think we have a really good relationship as far as with coaching guys

because, you know, I'm more of the ground guy and I'm an experienced guy from being in there and having wars and whatnot and and i know how the mindset is and whatnot but but longo i mean he'll just he makes you believe in what you're doing standing up and as far as conditioning that guy would get me and get you not only would he get me in shape but he would knew he there's a certain anybody could call out fucking jump squats till you fucking die and you're cursing them. Anybody could do that. Guys with egos and this and that.

Some guys you don't want training yet because, oh yeah, I made you puke today. No. He'd push you, a smart trainer pushes you past where you feel you can go because you always have someone in your thing. Doesn't make you cursing them, but not to the point where you're just fucking discouraged. he would get me where i'm out of shape for that for instance because the matt hughes fight when i did have to fight him i came that's when i i fucking i gained a lot of weight with

that one that was bad and i got to the bat he wasn't even looking at me he um fucking long ago and he wasn't when i first came back i go dude you can't even look at me he goes oh fuck i didn't do this look at you he goes fucking you're a mess He goes, oh, fuck, I didn't do this. Look at you. He goes, fuck it, you're a mess. He goes, so I had fucked it. But he brought me back. And when I fought, he was that second time. When I trained for him the second time, I was in phenomenal shape.

So I was in such good shape that I was so irked that I didn't do more during the fight because I expected different things. I expected maybe a little bit of a different fight But whatever I was I mean I was in really phenomenal shape a lot of credit to Longo for knowing how to Bring you up the right way. No, you guys have talked about doing it again. Are you serious about that? The thing is this I would fucking love to I cuz I can't stand it still you guys You know the thing is this I thought we hugged it out. Right. And I'm not a guy that, that, yeah, I'm not going to still want to hang out with the guy,

but you know, I'm not out of respect. Right. We did fight. And after you fight, you do feel, all right, man, we've been through something. All right. We left it here. Right. And then this, this is, this is, let me, I want to explain where my head's at.

Cause people, oh, you're obsessed with the guy. Dude, I don't, I don't think about the guy. How about that? I don't, I got my life. I don't think about this guy. But you ask me I got my life. I don't think about this guy. But you ask me about him, obviously, or it comes out. It just comes out. Okay.

But not you in particular, but the thing is this. I did this thing called the ultimate, there was a special called the Ultimate Hughes, Ultimate Matt Hughes or something. Right. It was for Fuel TV or whatever it was for. So they came to interview me and this was after we fought.

So before we sit down, I go, alright, he was gentle to me, right? The guy was like, no, no, he didn't say nothing bad. So if you watch this thing, I'm definitely saying how the guy's a legend and he deserves to get through this and that. And he did, at the time, stating facts

because the guy was a great know, a great fighter. One of the greatest of all time. For sure. For sure. For sure. But, you know, and then the show comes out, and I'm like, hey, honey, this is the thing I did for this. Let's watch it.

Hey, come here, kids. And all of a sudden, this fuck goes, you know, hey, you know, Matt Serra, you know, he's the one who walks in the room and he has to, you know, be the dude. Really? Really, motherfucker. I thought we were done with that. And now you don't do that. Don't you do when you're not talking to somebody, you're talking to your show here. It's going to be seen. You're so you're so. So, you know, that to me is the first step in being a just a man. All right. All right. That's where we're at, because I'm cool. I don't look for fucking,

I'm doing, I'm fucking, I don't look for fucking trouble, but I can't, you know, you're going to really, you're going to talk that nonsense. I'm giving you compliments and you're fucking, I'm the loudest guy.

Fuck you. You don't like me. Is this like Robert De Niro and Sylvester Stallone in that movie? Dude, you fuck. What's the matter with you? Fucker.

That was the name of that movie? I've never seen it Was it The Comeback? Is that what it was called? The Grudge Match? I want to see that Was it good? Was it a good movie?

Yeah, Joey Diaz is hilarious Oh, he's in that? Joey Diaz? Was that a good movie or no? Yeah It's worth going Longo goes Yeah, it's the Italian

Digstown You ever seen Digstown? No You never saw Digstown? No, but I know what it is Who saw Digstown? With Louis Coop, Gossipett Jr oh actually I did see that I did see that

and James Woods yeah that's right but uh Louis Gossett Jr is a boxer right yeah yeah

but the thing is this what this whole thing would use recently now he I saw on Twitter that's what happened

this girl so that's what happened that's why I didn't I'm like ah the guy fucking had to open his mouth again, whatever, but I'm not sitting there ranting about it, whatever, so on Twitter, you know, on Twitter you get a lot of knuckleheads, or this girl, whatever, saying, um, let's do Matt Serra, Matt Hughes at the Expo, Fan Expo, grappling match. So whatever, you ignore shit, you know. All of a sudden I see, you know, this guy, the cornball starts writing in, oh, Lynn, what would that consist of?

What would the rules be? It's like, all right, now I see where we're going. Now you want, you're trying to lead. Oh, I'd be up for it. And then, no. So I write back, not even if I'm going to get in shape. And mind you, I'm living my life. I'm not sitting here going, I'm making a comeback. And I'm working with, I enjoy my life, man.

I'm very, very. I'm sure you do. Well, I mean, I'm very lucky to be living. I know how it is out there in the real world with certain people. And you're in that rat race. And I know what it's like. I am very, and me and Longo talk about this all the time. We're lucky to be, you're lucky when you do what you love for a living.

I got my schools and I built my schools up through my fight. Nobody gave me a dime. It's all through my fight money. I upgraded the schools and I. And you're a great instructor too. You're really passionate about Jiu Jitsu. You know a lot about Jiu Jitsu. Thank you.

And, you know, I get to spend all the time with my kids because I get to take them to school. I take my oldest to preschool every other day, and I take him to dance. It's a good—so I'm living my life. I'm not sitting here waiting for a comeback or whatever, you know. But I see this, so I have to address it, you know. And I go, look, I go, if I'm going to get in shape to compete for a shoes, I go, no offense, but I'd want to hit him. You know, I mean, because it's honest. I mean, I'm not going to get into, listen, there's certain things in my life that weren't, not so much a bucket list, but there's things

I experienced that I feel like I quenched. It doesn't mean I can't go back to that, never doing a jiu-jitsu match again. I wouldn't rule that out. But there's certain things I feel like I accomplished where it's like, now I can move on to like, even before I got into MMA, which was one was Abu Dhabi. And, uh, and, and, and even like one of the biggest things I ever, I felt at the time was so, so special to me is when I did the Pan Ams at 99, because back then Americans weren't winning so much.

So when I went to Miami that year and, uh, and I won, that was one of those things where Henzo was there. He gave me the brown belt on the spot and I fought some tough guys with the net man in the in the you know Not for it. You know, I didn't do that I don't like it's weird when people say they fought people when it's what did you do to Matt? Yeah? Yeah, it just strikes me strange. Yeah. Well, it does cuz I had an MMA fighter. Yeah, I'm not fighting Yeah, it should be a match. It's a match. It really is a match You know, you did not fight the guy right but at the same the same time, I feel like I quenched certain things.

Like the thing with Abu Dhabi. I mean, I went for that show. I did stuff where I feel in that world is the equivalent of what I ended up doing with GSP. Like the thing with John Jock Machado. When I came into the scene, those guys, it was the Gracies and the Machados. The fact that I'm on the same Mat with that guy is ridiculous. Yeah, you've been you beat John Jock I'm not trying to break about myself, but it's a big accomplishment look in the world of grappling people

Don't know how huge that is that guy's phenomenal. He's been my instructor since 1998 I love John Jock he sees and he's amazing, you know, even a decision victory over John Jock is very impressive No, he's dude. He's phenomenal., and he's amazing. Even a decision victory over Jean-Jacques is very impressive. No, dude, he's phenomenal. Yeah, he's a great technician, a great guy. I haven't trained at all in a long time now because of my back. Oh, really? I'm just getting back into it. Yeah, I'm just getting into shape enough so it doesn't –

I'm three months out from that blood-spinning shit that I had done. I had that Regenequin thing. Yeah, I heard about the stuff. And I'm going to go through one more for my upper back. Really? You're feeling it when you're rolling? Yeah, I feel it when I do a lot of things. Yeah.

But my neck is 100% now. My neck was really bad. My neck was what was causing the older nerve. The neck's not bothering me at all. Oh, really? It's my mid-back. My mid-back's the only thing that's still fucking with me. Wow.

Depending upon what I do, like what kind of working out I do you know I was you know I've been speaking at the kettlebells before I've been messing around with really really like amazing but I think the guy fuck yeah my buddy killed me with that too much one day and I was fucked the next day well you got to make sure that you do yes because if the postures or yeah you could put a lot of strain on yeah but I love it I enjoy it The Turkish fucking delights Turkish get ups Yeah those are tremendous

Yeah Windmill You windmills at all The windmill Windmill It's like You know I don't know if I know all the names

I do the one where I bring it Between my legs I bring it up I bring it up Clean press Yeah No those are tremendous Yeah

Figure eights What's that I don't know the names of this shit But it's I did He showed me He'd tell me when I'm doing don't know the names Of this shit But it's He'd show me He'd tell me when I'm doing it I know the Turkish get ups Because it reminded me

Of the fucking Turkish delights From the fucking movie I saw when I was a kid Turkish get ups are fantastic For grappling too Yeah For core strength That's awesome

And I like it It's all basically Doing the Gracie get up At one point You're fucking right Yeah exactly Yeah it's cool Yeah it's awesome man

Yeah there's nothing Like kettle bells For strength and conditioning Yeah it's cool. Yeah, it's awesome, man. Yeah, there's nothing like kettlebells for strength and conditioning. Yeah, it's cool. One of my favorites. I dig it. It makes it fun. It's really good for grappling, too.

It translates really well for grappling. I'm going to mess around with that a lot more, man. You ever fuck around with clubs or maces or any of those things? I got all that shit at my school in Huntington. Scott Sonnen, dude, he's got some great videos, man. The guys are doing it.

I got a... What is it called? The... Club bells or maces. Yeah, back in the day, one of my black belts, Persian Nick, You've got some great videos, man. The guys are doing it. I got a... What is it called? The... Club Bells. Yeah. Or Macy's. Back in the day, one of my black belts, Persian Nick, he runs my Bayside Academy. He had those things back in the day.

Oh, so yeah. Those are Iranian wrestling. They used to use a lot of those. I guess that's where he got it from. Remember the Iron Sheik used to fucking swing those around? He did, didn't he? Yeah. That was an old school technique for developing strength.

They would have these hardwood ones where it was like a long handle. It was a big, fat hardwood thing. And these clubs. And they would swing them around over their head. It creates tremendous shoulder strength and forearm strength. It's fucking wild, man. Yeah, because they're odd. It's like odd weight.

Like you're holding a handle and the weight's all up here. It's like all wobbly and shit. It's very difficult to keep steady. Yeah, because they're odd. It's like odd weight, like you're holding a handle, and the weight's all up here. It's like all wobbly and shit. It's very difficult to keep steady. Yeah, yeah. I like this stuff that requires some technique to it. Yeah, technique and balance. Everything, I guess, requires technique to it, but it's different than just your regular bench pressing and whatnot.

Yeah, because like maces and club bells, it's a real awkward thing you're doing. You know, this long pole. Like, try holding a 25-pound club bell in your hand. You'd be amazed at how awkward they are to move around. They're so awkward. Like, the first time I used one, I had to put it on a scale. I'm like, that fucking thing's not 25 pounds.

Then I put it on the scale. I was like, get the fuck out of here. And you can't do any of that shit right now? Well, you can do it, but it's just weird. No, I'm saying, like, with you right now. No, I can do all that. Yeah. What fucks me up is rolling.

Yeah. Anytime anybody gets my neck, anytime anybody, anything, like, anything that puts pressure in the middle of my back if I get stacked. I would say, you know what I, I mean, it's different, back, and yours is upper, I don't even know. But with my lower back, what I do now is, when I usually start off, I usually, you know, I guess I can call the shots to my place, but I get, place, but I get my guys, if we're doing round robins, me and a couple of my guys, I can be like,

all right, I'm going to stay on top. We'll do some round robin passing, and I stay on top. I'll pass twice, or I'll pass four times, and then they'll go twice. And I stay on top, just passing, passing, and then when I get really drippy and loose, then I go to my back. And then I'll roll for another hour, but it just helps me. If I get to drippy and loose, then I go to my back. And then I'll roll for another hour,

but it just helps me. If I get to my back too soon, and I'm trying to get... First of all, I feel like I'm not going to be getting out as good if I'm fucking tight, you know what I mean? But once I get loose, I'm a different person. Do you have a warm-up routine that you do

before you train? Do you have a specific warm-up routine? No, I actually like to hit some pads. Nothing crazy, just technical. Just left, right, hook, kick, or even just right, left, kick. And I have a certain combination I like to do, which is my overhand, left uppercut, overhand. And I just do the body mechanics of it,

and then I get nice and loose with that, and then bang out like 10 kicks. Nothing crazy. And I like to finish off with a lot of tight kicks too cuz like I'm tired I try to bang out like 20 Eddie Bravo had a back problem for a while and I started doing a series of these yoga routines for yeah and he would do them before every class always do them for every class really loosen everything up stretch everything I gotta try that I used to like the the Bikram

yoga like the hot yoga oh that's fantastic but shit man it's like an hour and a half, man. It just kills me, man. I'm like, can you guys do this? If I could do that for 45, because I got to run around, man. Right.

I could roll for that long, but I don't think I got the patience to listen to the fucking waterfall music and stretch for a fucking hour and a half. Whether there's MILFs in there or not, I can't. I got to get the fuck out of here. It depends entirely

on what kind of instructor you have, too. Yeah, I guess it's got to be, you know. If you get one of those fake yoga instructors it's very annoying like yeah fake spiritual dummies that has like they'll sing and chant in class and this is all like where i was i was all like whatever just middle-aged women and whoever else and i'm like dude this long island and long this was in uh actually woodbury'll say it because I'm not going back there. But, and then there's me, and I'm just like, you know. Did you find it helped you in any way, like your jiu-jitsu? That was back around when I fought George.

The first, after I fought George, too, I'd mess around with that. And, no, I liked it. I really did. No, when I was younger, I could do, I could still, maybe another 10 pounds, I could do a full split. I used to be able to grab, interlock my hands. I'm not doing it now.

Interlock as I could do a full split. When I was coming up, forget about it. Very flexible. I mean, you know, like, back when I fought John Jock, very flexible. That's why my guard was very hard to pass back then especially fuck yeah it was like it was like you're almost past but I'm a stocky guy Carlos senior Carlos Gracie senior used to say like oh you it's hard guard to pass because even with the geeks I could I'm upper body I'm strong but I'm very

flexible lower body so I'd be able to make a little bit of space, and I'm short, so I can make this, you know, you're taller than me, but I'm sure you can get your limbs in quicker than a really long guy. Every body type in jiu-jitsu, you know, I know certain guys love the long, the lean, but every type, you know, bodies for jiu-jitsu, because you're thinking like the Hardrick-Racy type, and that's awesome,

but every body type has its pros and its cons, and it's got its advantages and disadvantages. You just gotta do what's best for you, you know? So I love my body type for jiu-jitsu. Like a guy like Paul Harris. Similar. Oh, fuck, yeah. Yeah, real stocky.

I love watching that guy fight. He's scary as fuck when he gets a little of a leg. I love watching, like, guys, you have to be well-rounded, but I like watching, like, purists, guys that are, like, he's, like, he's got that one weapon that could fuck everybody. Yeah. You know And That's why Belcher's win over him Was so impressive Oh that was good

Because Alan Belcher Like happily went into that world And countered every step of the way He's working with Soneka Doesn't he work with Soneka I think so I think that's I don't want to say that out

I'm not sure I shouldn't say that Maybe not all the time I think he does though But whoever it was They trained him well Because man His leg lock defense was on point. I mean, Paul Harris had a hold of it, and he couldn't do shit with it.

No, he was getting the knee to the floor, I believe. I got to watch that again. That was good. He counted beautifully. No, he kept his cool. Yeah. Well, he was comfortable going to it, too. It didn't bother him at all.

The thing about Paul Harris, what I notice is he comes out almost like a knockout boxer He's not knocking you out. Then all Sonny starts the mentally short circuit. Well, it's what we were talking about earlier We're talking about a guy like Hector Lombard like he's so fucking strong and fast and powerful But the reality is to move like that requires a certain amount of fuel, but I don't see that I think it's different with pal Harris. I think it's more of a mental thing. I don't know. Yeah I I'm not attacking a guy. I'm a big fan. I love watching.

And he's like my body type. So I love watching him fight. He's scary. He's scary the way he gets guys' legs. Like the Mike Pierce fight. It was so scary that I think the people might have jumped the gun in getting mad at him. Because in that fight at least, I mean, the guy gets a hold of him. The guy touches him and he stops.

Yeah. I mean, it guy gets a hold of him, the guy touches him, and he stops. Yeah. I mean, it was like a second. I mean, and you know more than anybody does when you're in the fog of war. Yeah. I mean, here's one of those things where either he, I think you already say he was like scarred because he, I think he used to train with Murillo Bustamante before I think he left camps or something. Yeah. But I think he used to say that because that happened with Murillo that time, with Matt Lindland, when he let go too early,

and the next thing you know he had to submit him twice in one fight. Yeah. Great fighter, Murillo Bustamante. Murillo Bustamante, very, very underrated. Guys I'd come up, besides, of course, Enzo Gracie, my master, and the Gracie family in general, two guys that really I liked was Murillo Bustamante and Fabio... Gurgel?

Fabio Gurgel. Fabio Gurgel, who trained Marcelo Garcia. Oh, big fan. Yeah, Fabio was a great abuse to Monte and Fabio Virgil Fabio Virgil Fabio Virgil who trained Marcelo Garcia fan. Yeah fabulous They was great. I love I love their jiu-jitsu because both those guys both those two Murillo and Fabio had very good tight top games very good bottom game big guys Who's yeah fighting Kerr for 30 minutes the other guys fighting big Tom Eric is exactly these guys had they have? An end at the time. They were both throwing to get in. You know what I mean?

Absolutely. Big fan of those guys. They deserve some recognition because a lot of newbies don't know who the hell they are. And Bustamante beating Matt Lindland the way he did it. I mean, he essentially beat him twice in one fight. Yeah. And it was another big John McCarthy fuck up. Sorry, John. You're the best.

But it was true. Bustamante tapped him, but Linlin claimed that he I think I remember like like even during the fight like John realized he fucked up it's a guy named my it's my bad but you got a fight still like that type of thing and that was you know it looked like he was tapping though didn't it yeah I mean I it was a long time ago but I remember being like he's got him all fuck you know I was one of those. I was so rooting.

And I'm cool with Lin-Lin too, but you know, I'm a jiu-jitsu fan. The right way to start that back up again, though. You can't put him back. You know what's funny? How about this?

That happened to Drago. In one of Drago's earlier fights, he fought a studly wrestler. This kid was a known wrestler in Jersey, straight up arm lock. And then they're like and then he got it

and they said it's similar the guy stopped it and the other guy said I didn't tap and I shouldn't have I shouldn't have let them still fight

I should have made us think about it but I'm like alright start him back in it fuck it now Drago's like I'll do what you want me to do you know

and I should it was stupid but you know Neglia and I love Neglia he's such a great guy, he's like, ah,

you know, the crowd's gonna, you know, but he is a promoter, you know, the crowd's gonna be upset, and he told me, I'm like,

ah, I go, I go, fuck, I go, I go Drago, I go, he's like,

I'll do what you want me to do, you know, and fuck it, it's never, that dude, that motherfucker's fans. So what happened? Put him back in the arm lock,

and Drago took the arm again. So it's perfect. Perfect, yeah, it started him back in the arm lock. Oh, they started him right back where they were. Yeah, right back in the arm lock. I think he had to break the grip again because the guy grabbed, but he dropped it.

That happened to Paul Harris at Abu Dhabi. You saw that situation, right? No. They were scrambling out of bounds. No, but wasn't it weird with the Avalon brother? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But didn't he crank that? Yes.

Well, not only that, they started him back up with the leg lock locked in with Paul Harris. So all he has to do is ready, set, go, crank. You can't do that. You can't agree to that. You can't agree to get back into that situation because that situation was not a static situation. Oh, man. That situation is in the middle of a scramble from beginning to end. That's where you're at. You can't just start at the finish line.

Ready, go. Yeah. You can't stop it and start it like that because it was always moving it was in the process of moving and you get a guy who's as strong as he is with great technique

and he knows how to adjust he might adjust it a little tighter as the referee's waiting to start him up again oh dude it's nasty of course right that's hard to

if you've ever been on the receiving end or anything to do with leg longs you're fucking especially heel hooks they're fucking horrific heel hooks I heard

that's why they stopped it with the original Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments is that they were blowing out too many legs. Yeah. Yeah. Constantly. Yeah. Especially with the gi. Fuck.

Yeah. You can't get out. You know, it's funny, man. I still go for them when I'm wearing gi. I don't give a fuck. I'm not going in any Monday L's anytime soon. That's why. I mean, what am I...

Do you ever think about doing that? Some guys get too soft, man. What's that? Do you ever think about doing that? Some guys get too soft man What's that? Do you ever think about doing that? I mean even if you didn't fight again Would you ever think about competing in Jiu Jitsu? I would I wouldn't

You know nothing on the radar But I would I would consider that again Because I do love Jiu Jitsu There was a time I'm sorry No please don't There was a time where

I I I Was upgrading my schools, and I got the Christmas cards made up already. It was going to be Sarah MMA. And then at the last second, I go fucking throw those cards away. I stick it to Sarah Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Sarah BJJ,

and that's what I did with my schools. Because I'm like, you know what? Not that you get a different crowd, which you could, you know, and everybody wants to be the next champ. Because I got the best of both worlds. I got schools where if you walk in my schools, there's certain nights you walk in. Like on a Tuesday night is becoming a legendary night, man, because I got all the MMA guys there, all the guys, you know, like Wide Man,

Valante, you know, all the guys. And guys who are visiting, you know, even guys just popping into town, they visit, guys from Bellator, wherever else. Mike Chandler just stopped down, nice kid. Great guys who are visiting. Even guys just popping into town. They visit. Guys from Bellator, wherever else. Mike Chandler just stopped down. Nice kid. Great guy. Great guy. But that Tuesday night class is a murderer's row for sure.

My 6 o'clock no-key class. But most of the time, I mean, I teach a lot of the guys who are paying your bills are the average guys. You know what I mean? And I love jiu-jitsu. It's such a great thing for everybody. And I got eight, like I teach seven, eight-year-old kids up to guys in their 50s, women in their 50s. And you can always have an MMA class if you have a jiu-jitsu school. Nothing wrong with it.

I got Thai boxing. James Gabert runs my Thai boxing program. And I got a women's boxing class, kickboxing class starting up in a couple weeks. Like I have, I like to tend to everybody, man, because the martial arts is a beautiful thing you know and you feel like you're paying it for i feel like when i go to work i feel like i'm paying it forward every time i get on the mat not to sound like a for sure no but it's no no but it really is you know i've seen you teach you know you love it you really love it and if i'm ever not feeling it i'm gonna have somebody teach for me if i'm in a because you have it's the key to being a good teacher is you

have to give a fuck you have that passion if you're not otherwise doesn't matter what you teach if you're not into it it's you're going through the paces what's also you get something out of it I've seen you I've seen you when you're teaching I mean I saw when when I first when we first came to your school when you were telling Drago like what you know what to do or how to change or maybe there's this new position like you get real fired up about it no i love it i i do enjoy it man because you know that's so that's so good like for the students i remember i remember when we went you're my i lived at that academy

i remember everything i'll tell you the story through here i'll tell you the story he had a bed down in the basement and he uh had a bucket a bucket like a milk jug that he would piss into in the middle of the night because he was drinking so much water. When you drink a lot of water, like if you're in high level training, you got to drink a lot of water and you got to get up and pee in the middle of the night left and right. He had a fucking giant jug by his bed. Just put his cock in the jug. That's it, man. That'll ruin your night's sleep. And what's funny with that, I got into a habit of that.

Up until I got married. Up until I got married, I was still doing that. I swear to you. I've always wanted to do that, but I've never gone through with it. But it got to the point, in the beginning, my wife would start going, all right, I can't. You can't have a jug of piss by the bed. Oh, yeah. It was funny.

So eventually You know My wife was like Oh this is gotta Come on You kidding me I'm like alright The kids are getting older now What's this

I can't So I did But it started You saw the origins Of that Infamous And you're funny Because I remember

I showed you the room And you go Dude I'll never forget you. Like, dude, you live like a fucking Spartan. Yeah, it was Spartan as fuck. I was never late for class, man. It was right upstairs. I used to get up for my fights.

I used to get up, meet my buddy Sergio. He's a wrestling kid I knew from elementary school. Meet me at 6 a.m. Get up, warm up, do the shots, work my wrestling with him. Go back to sleep, get back up, train jiu-jitsu. We. Get up. Warm up. Do the shots. Work my wrestling with them. Go back to sleep. Get back up. Train jiu-jitsu. We'll go to Longo's.

Go back. Chill. Get back up. Play some Xbox down there with the guys. Go back up. I lived there. That was supposed to be for two months. Because what happened was I was roommates with, you know, Rodrigo Gracie?

Yep. Great, great guy. He was one of my closest friends, man. And we still talk once now and then through Twitter and whatnot. But I lived with him for over three years. We had an apartment together. What great times.

We got our black belts on the same day. I don't know if you know that. No, wow. You know how I got my black belt? Henzo put us, me and Rodrigo, who was like my best friend at the time, man, and my roommate, I was getting ready for Pride. That's when I was going to fight in Pride.

It was 2000. And he put me and Rodrigo to roll. This is back on 37th Street when Henzo had that academy, not the, uh, the blockbuster now. It was still crowded as shit, but it was upstairs from a methadone clinic and this and that. Oh, it was nasty. But, uh, he had me and Rodrigo have a jiu-jitsu match, 10-minute match. Go ahead.

I want you guys to do 10 minutes. And once in a while, Henzo would do stuff like that out of the blue. And it is what it is. I don't know if he wants to get us used to the pressure of everybody watching or whatever. So me and Rodrigo went for 10 minutes. And it was, thank God, it was a very even match. Otherwise, one of us, somebody would be depressed. But because he took me down at the beginning, and then at the very end, I got up, I put him down, I'm trying to pass, and it ends.

And then Henzo hands out the black belts right there. It was a beautiful thing. It was awesome, man. It was an awesome, awesome moment. That's such an honor to get a black belt from Henzo, too. And I'm one of those guys where, oh, yeah. Just like Hickson, Henzo. That's like top of the food chain name to have your black belt under.

Henzo Gracie, I always go back to no matter whatever I achieve, he's always above me and ahead of me, and he's my instructor. Well, he's just a great human being, too. He took me out of a security. I was literally in a security guard booth. And I'd work from, I had to clip on time. I worked from midnight to 8 in the morning. And, you know, for nothing, under $200 a week, just so I could have enough money to get on that train

and go to my college, which was the Henzo Gracie Academy. And I used to, then I started teaching for Henzo in the afternoon. No, no, wait, before that, I would just go there's the train and then a Henzo and it ends Oh, it's just after why I would be like dude Matt you training like shit. He's like, what is your problem? He's like why you it's so tired. I go dude and so I'm fucking up all night, man I go I go out, you know, cuz if you have Jeff have to work all night in a job Yeah for a period of time like if you do it like over delivered newspapers It wasn't all night, but I would get out I would show up at work

At three o'clock in the morning On Saturdays Yeah Most days it was five a.m. It's not normal man I don't think it's I don't think it's It's a healthy thing man

I thought I was losing my mind After towards a while man I was just getting whacked You're not supposed to sleep During the day Yeah and you don't sleep You don't sleep Like you sleep during the night

You're not good in like six hours Even if you get straight through You wake up like two hours Then you'd go back And it was just a fucking mess But um You know it affected me So then he's like listen quit that fucking job help me here so fucking aim it and i go really you know so the next day i was in there scrubbing the fucking tour i didn't give a happy as a happy as shit just to say that i could do that for

you know what i mean and how old were you then? I was 19 or 20, something like that. Maybe 20. Perfect time. No responsibility. That's it. Get gangster with it. And it was funny, man. Pursue your dream. What belt were you at the time? Purple belt. That's awesome. What a

fucking fun time that must have been. Purple belt. Henzo just took me under his wing, man. man And then you know That changed my life And what year was this? I was around 20 39 now When was this?

Late midnight What year was this? 90s It was probably around The time I was going to be fighting Around 97? 98? So this is like right when MMA is you you know, Frank Shamrock's the champion.

Armbar's Kevin Jackson. Remember that? Yeah, fuck yeah. Ensign Inouye. Armbar at Hoist Alger. Yeah, for sure. Remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Royce. It was Royce Alger. Yeah, and they made a big deal about him because he was a badass wrestler. Ensign got him in the armlock. He got Randy Couture in an arm lock, too. Fuck yeah, he did. Yeah, he was tough. He got Randy Couture in an arm lock, and he also hit him with some of the nastiest kicks

from the bottom, from the butt scoot position I've ever seen. Hard leg kicks from the butt scoot. He was like the first guy that figured out you could fucking pack a wallop from that position. Him and his brother was skilled jiu-jitsu practitioners. His brother was Egan. His brother Egan, you know, is like one of those free dive champions. What is he? He's a free dive champion.

He can like hold his breath for like seven fucking minutes. Well, he looked, they were both very athletic. Yeah. But Egan is, he's one of those guys that like with no scuba equipment will just fucking jump down the bottom of the ocean and hang out for a few minutes. Shit, man. Yeah, he was a racquetball champ, too. I heard about that.

Yeah, I remember that. Just all around stud athletes. Yeah, no, that was back in the day. But that's what Henzo gave me. I used to just do private lessons out of there. It was funny, man. I mean, I used to, dude, you're never as sharp as when, like, it's so funny. I tell the guys now, like I think back on my times

living with Rodrigo, and I'll give, I didn't even finish that fucking story, but, and the time coming up training, like I used to teach a private lesson near my house in Woodmeyer

when I lived with Rodrigo, get on the train, teach that afternoon class, go in the city, and the city, it's different than going to a movie by yourself in Long Island, in the city it doesn't matter,

you just, so I used to walk around the city and go to a comic shop or go eat with the guys go go see a movie by myself i didn't care because at six o'clock i was fucking training and then have after after training at six o'clock i'd that'd be to anywhere from six to like eight i used to jump on the um the one and a nine uh the one nine train back to uh columbia i used to do the jiu-jitsu course so i was living on the mat man just it was like i would never felt so sharp in my life it was so it was such a it's it's it's weird because when you look back you have nothing but fond memories

but when you're in the moment it's you you know you're loving doing what you're doing but you still you don't know if you're going to be making like you feel like it can end tomorrow type of right you know what i mean where it's like all right i don't have that pension in how many years that's why i'm like i gotta start mutual funds now where i would put money into something when i had no money i would just do it i used to live off the privates and i'd get i don't know how much i got from the columbia thing but it wasn't a lot it was ridiculously low but it was again that was steady though privates canceled i still had that money coming in you know what I mean?

And then once in a while, I'd take either a grappling super fight or I'd take the local fight where I'd sell tickets, make money. But anyway, the thing is, the journey is a lot of guys, you've got to really keep your eye on the prize but enjoy the journey. Because the journey is, I look back with all that stuff with fond, fond memories. It's hard to realize that while you're in the middle of it. You can't. That's what I'm saying. Like, I look back now and like, oh, sometimes you're like, oh, man, that was, you know, I didn't accomplish what I accomplished yet.

But, man, that was just such a fucking, that was just a good time, man. I had such good times with these guys. So, Rodrigo, me and Rodrigo, man, we lived with each other. We had funny times, man. We lived with each other for a few years. And then he started dating this Brazilian girl, right? She had a couple of kids. So I was getting ready for my Eves Edwards fight, right?

And I'm like, dude, I go, listen, man. I go, if you're getting serious with this girl, let me know, dude. I don't want to fucking, I mean, she has a couple of kids and it's me. We got the apartment here. I go, should I start looking for a place or you want me to keep this or what are you doing? Man, he goes, are you crazy, man? I'm not getting married.

Are you fucking crazy? You see married people? He's like, I'm not getting fucking married ever. So he goes to my fight, fucking Yves Edwards at the fucking Mandalay Bay in 2001. So we come back, you know. Man, did you hear? I go, did I hear what, brother?

I went through an I do drive-thru. It's crazy. It was like McDonald's, but I'm married now. I go, what the fuck are you talking about? An I do drive-thru? He goes, man, you drive up? And they have that in Vegas, I guess. So he got married through an IDU drive-thru.

So I go, all right. So this is when I was building my school. So that's when I'm like, you know what? I got to get to stay here. I go, dude, I go, my buddy Persnick was building. I go, dude, put me a room in the basement. That's how I ended up there. I go, stay here until I get a place.

So it was supposed to be two months. Ended up being two years. And I didn't give a fuck. You're doing that at 26, 27. It's cool. You're doing it at 45. It could be sand. I don't know.

But at the time, I wouldn't change a thing. Isn't it funny? Because it was cool. When I saw that you lived like that, it was cool. But yeah, if you were a 55-year-old guy. Now I am like, you know, I drove Longo. We drove Longo to the airport. He went with me out here, you know.

And he's already going back He's on the plane now But it's funny Now I'm like I'm in the minivan I got Longo in there I got my three kids My wife

I go to I'm fucking Clark Criswell now You believe it? I'm telling Longo Can you believe this? The only time it's fun For a guy who's in his 50s Is after a brutal divorce

Oh there you go He's free I'm free Fuck you I'm free. Fuck you. I'm just going to teach jiu-jitsu in the basement. Stop telling me what to do. This is why I got nothing, and I'm happy. I'm free.

Oh, man. Your fucking tentacles. In the basement, pissing into a jug, sleeping like a baby. Something that I say, honey, now I'm going back to that fucking jug. Sleeping like a baby. Oh, man. There's some guys, man, now I'm going back to that fucking jug. Sleeping like a baby. Oh, man. There's some guys, man, that's what it takes. It takes a horrible sort of a bad relationship for them to appreciate just being alone.

And then they can go right back to that basement and be happy again. Yeah, man. Except for everybody. I mean, now, see, right now I'm in a stage where, like, it's just that, you know, it's funny how you get to different chapters of your life. Like right now, it's like, this is so weird, man.

Now I'm like, man, how do I have three kids and I'm going to be 40 in June and I go, how the fuck did this happen? Like, this is just weird.

But you're having a great time. No, I can't complain, man. Life is a crazy journey, right? And we got these young guys that we're working with who are really, the one thing about me

and Ray, man, the guys we're cornering, whether it's Chris or Ally, Quinta, who's doing fucking great. There's not enough talk about Ally. No, I don't think so either Ray, man, the guys we're cornering, whether it's Chris or Al or Quinta, who's doing fucking great. There's not enough talk about Al, I don't think. No, I don't think so either. I mean, the guy, the Miles Jury, and that kid's a young stud too, Miles Jury.

Yeah, he is, yeah. I mean, if you look at who Al's beat, man, Al's, I mean, on that show, that kid beat that kid. That kid was a tough kid, close fight, if I remember correctly. But it shows you just where Al's at, man, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's why I said that the other night during his walkthrough that Miles is undefeated except for the ultimate fighter. Did I never mention the fight?

Oh, did you say that? Yes, I did, yeah. Because it's kind of, well, it doesn't, you know, he didn't fight, he fought on TV, right? Or did he fight in the pay-per-view? Did he fight in the pay-per-view? Who's this? Al, or Miles' jury.

It was pay-per-view because he fought Diego. Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. So during the walk-up, I said that. That he did lose. Yeah, man. Because it doesn't count. They count him as an exhibition. Hey, listen, man.

I don't give a shit. I count mine on the house. I fucking had... Pete Sprout almost kneed my face off, man. I'm counting that shit. Yeah. You might not have it on my record, but I'm taking that. I'm counting that as a win.

It's stupid that it's an exhibition. It's a fight. I mean, whatever the record... So it's not cool when they say he's undefeated, because it's kind of weird. It's like, it's an exhibition. It's a fight. I mean, whatever the record, so it's not cool when they say he's undefeated because it's kind of weird. It's like, not really,

because he lost. Not him, I'm not attacking that kid. I'm saying in general when they say that. No, he's great, but it is weird that that doesn't count

on your record. I get it because you have to, you don't prepare as much. it's something with the, you have to fight the guys that's in the house, even if,

you know, a lot of guys, they're not going through it totally healthy and they might not have even accepted that fight if it was in any other situation other than a tournament oh no listen that that that experience alone too i mean what was that like because you were already a professional fighter and then also you know and that's funny and that goes back to what we were talking about see how things come full circle with carol parisian is that's what

we were talking about before i don't even think we even finished that because after that he um he blew his leg out man so he got the title shot it looks like I took a fucking beating in front of my students my fiance

this and that so the I remember when that happened I'm like oh dude I almost knocked him out I almost knocked Carol out in the beginning that dude got a fucking

I'm up whatever you have to do what you have to do so many there's so many little things in MMA that the little the slightest little zigs instead of zags, if you don't do it, it's a totally different fight.

Like Pete Dragocell, he really should have only a couple losses, man. He has a lot of fights. Nate Quarry, the second one, the first one was pretty premature, but you could argue it. The second one, he could have took that to the floor, but he stayed in front of him. And Thales Leites, a guy that he took a beating on the same night at 4GSB. He had such a secular team, Drago. And he's an honest guy. He goes, Matt, man, I had him at one point in the neck.

He went to go, and I used that to get on top and finish. But the guy fell up against the cage, so he couldn't get on top. These little things, it just impacts careers. Well, he could have might have tapped him if they were in a belt. Oh, exactly. Hard to tap Talis ladies, but. Oh, no, no.

He goes, Matt. I don't even think he'd say it in an interview. He's a very humble guy. He goes, Matt. He goes, man, I had that fucking thing on. He goes, and if I didn't, I'm telling you, if I'm not finishing him on top, I'm mounting him with it.

And listen, I know what his. He's got a sick one You know, that's what put Brony to sleep. Yeah, and I know they're different guys, but doesn't matter man I think you know when you it's me with it when I was a bluebell. Oh, yeah No, it's good. So it's just one of those things where it's like in that for instance I almost knock Caro out and at the time you just like the fucking that Jim Carrey move laces out if I only fucking what was that fucking Ace Ventura

you think like if I just did a little something different if I just would've but things I mean if you want to say things happen for a reason

or whatever it is the experiences they just you know by him surviving that he got a good for instance a couple of things

with Caro one if I got him hurt I kind of went apeshit to finish him, which wasn't horrendous, but I didn't line up my shots, which I learned from and helped me out later with George. But another thing, man, he went to get a hold of me, and I flipped him over.

I would have mounted his ass, too. For all fucking A, I would have. But he was propped like this against the cage. He got a fucking judo grip in my shorts, and he, like a gorilla gorilla pulled himself up to my chest and i remember going to yamazaki's got my shorts by that time he fucking got into clinch and he was cool he got away i shot a big load and fucking i was little and he was you know that motherfucker wasn't getting tired so so little things could have if i would have did that to

mount that might have been fucking different right there yeah Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? But, so, I mean, I'm not, at the time, you're fucking, not suicidal, but you're very upset. Do you think that the cage is the right place to fight? Do you think that there's a better way that they haven't figured out? Listen, you could say the ring and it worked for pride, but guys were going through that left and right, and there'd be a lot more of that. I mean. What about, like, a surface? Like, remember when Frank Sham and it'd be a lot more of that. What about a surface? Remember when Frank Shamrock had that thing going on?

Yeah, I saw that. That was lame as shit, no? What was it called? I don't know, but that thing... How about the Yama Pit? Bob Meyerowitz made a comeback with the Yama Pit. Remember that? Yama Pit fighting?

I think so. That was kind of a bull too. Unfortunately, I think you need the cage. I think you do. I mean, these things all, people are trying these things. And exactly it is what it feels, it sounds like. It seems like the ultimate venue would be like a big basketball court that's matted up. Where there was really no left or right.

You stay in the center, there's no left or right to go. It's just a really big space that's completely matted up. Where you don't ever get a, the walk. There's got to be a limit somewhere. Otherwise guys who are running there where they going? But the wall is a weapon, you know the wall you can hold the guy in place It's a tool you can keep a guy in place So the wall becomes a factor in the fight comes a factor in the guys learn how you should learn how to get out of a Situation like that as a martial artist. Anyway, a van is a fucking weapon a fucking no, no doubt I think that you should learn how to get out of that situation like that as a martial artist anyway. A van is a fucking weapon. No, no doubt.

I think that you should learn how to get out of that. And if the guys can keep you against there, it's your fucking problem. No doubt. I mean, as far as like martial arts, self-defense, as far as that. But it is what it is. But for a fight, wouldn't it be better if it was just a giant flat surface? Like if they fought. There's got to be.

Then people can be going out of bounds, though. That's what I'm saying. Yeah then people gonna be going out of bounds though there's got that's what i'm saying it's yeah in a fight i think it's so you have to have some kind of right constraints on where you're headed you know what i mean maybe um maybe there's like penalties if a fighter moves past a certain boundary you know does that make sense and they're gonna be fucking having the whistle stopping it like fucking football you know what i mean i uh listen i i know what you're saying because it does, but it does make a difference. Because a guy can cut you off.

If a guy can cut you off and pin you up against the cage and knee your thighs and do all that shit that guys are doing today, that wouldn't be happening if they were just clinched up in the middle of a giant surface. It's true. Maybe have dog collars on. They get shocked when they get over there.

I think that... You know what I like about that? The fact that he doesn't even address it. I'm used to him. I think that like a big open... I know what you're saying. What if they had like a football size arena? Then I think you'll...

God forbid you get a guy that loses some heart. You might be funny. You might have one guy it might be funny you might have one guy just chasing the other guy what was the fight with Nick Warrie when he's running you might have one guy

running around Caleb Starnes right yeah it's one of those things where what if a guy loses you know I mean it's not

not the best idea but it's just I know and listen I know what you're saying as a martial artist you're saying listen it's guys are using that

as a weapon itself but they're also using it as a tool to get up. I just fucking belched into the microphone. No worries. I apologize about that guy. It's hard to get up if you were just in the middle of nowhere. If you're just in the middle of nowhere and you're on your back and the guy's on top of

you, he can keep adjusting as you move. He can hold you in place. You can never put your feet up on the cage. Oh, you're saying as far as using it to get up with the wall walks and whatnot. Yeah, your back up against the wall and wall walk. There's all those things that allow a guy to get up easier. Yeah. It's pretty significant in my opinion.

No, it does make a huge difference as far as skill-wise because without that wall, you'd have to learn to use either your underhook or your butterfly hooks to elevate to get up to your butt and get up. Do you remember when the wall used to be an advantage for the grappler to hold a guy down? They used to think that you press a guy up against a cage. Well, if guys aren't good at getting up, guys are still doing it. I mean, not for nothing, Rashad versus Chael was,

it just looked like very frustrating for Chael because you know he just couldn't get out. Rashad's too good. He's just too good. He had him like knee on belly. Chael's the greatest talker. That was like a jujitsu. Chael's the greatest talker of all time, but atiu-jitsu. What's that? Chael's the greatest talker of all time.

Yeah. But at 205, he really can't fight a guy like Rashad. Rashad's too fast, too strong, too good, too hungry, too fill in the blank. He's still, yeah, Chael, well, styles make fights, and that's a rough style. That's a terrible style for him. I mean, he also, him with Shogun went well, and I believe that was at 205. Yes. Yeah.

It's funny. What do you think about Shogun went well, and I believe that was at 205. Yes. Yeah. It's funny. What do you think about Shogun and Henderson going at it again? I think that... It's the last TUE fight. Let me ask you something. With Henderson, he's just coming off a knockout. I know people might say it's a little quick. I don't think.

I think it was legit. It was legit. He got knocked out. Has he ever been knocked out before that? No. I can't recall. Anderson stopped him and choked him. I don't think anybody's ever stopped him and striked. I think that's very interesting to see how he comes back. I think that could be a

big thing. Well, I mean, it might make it might make not a difference in the world or it might make a difference. He fought TRT Vitor. TRT Vitor. When we go down over errors of the greatest, most impressive fighters, there's going to be a part of me that is sad that TRT Vitor has to come to an end. It's a part of me that's very that TRT Vitor has to come to an end. It's a part of me that's very sad. I mean, I see the argument that it's unfair. Do you remember you talked about how him beating John Hess and this and that? Do you remember those fights? Fuck yeah.

That's why it is TRT Vitor. Oh, for sure. That guy was fucking an animal back then. Do you think that was fruit and vegetables back then? It wasn't. In fact, I know it wasn't because his trainer died. His trainer was a young guy named Curtis. Do you remember Curtis? Curtis was a giant dude who had fucking

these veins that looked like garden hoses. Probably if I'd seen him, because I'd probably seen him in the corner. He was so big. He was so big, and he would work out, and Eddie Bravo and I went to one of the early, early UFCs together. He was there with Ricky Rocket. It was when Eddie First and I first got to meet each other, and we weren't even really

good friends. You met him? We met Eddie. Where'd you meet him? I met him at John Jock's. Okay. And then I met him again at one of the UFCs. Ricky Rocket from Poison.

Yeah. UFC fan. Really? Yeah. And Eddie and Ricky and a couple other guys from John Jock's had come out to one of the UFCs, like Louisiana or some shit. Okay. And Vitor was there.

And we worked out at the same gym as Vitor's trainer. And Vitor's trainer was purple. I've seen him before. He was in the corner, no? He was in the corner before. Yes. Big dude. Huge.

He was purple while he was working out, like a grape. He's doing tricep extensions like this. And he doesn't even look like a real color. I mean, he's so juiced to the g you know in his 30s in his early 30s he died of you know just over i had a guy like that man big guy trevor smith what a what a nice guy he was 280 when i used to roll with him that's another guy i did private lessons for and i was a purple i used to roll this big huge guy nice what a nice guy a nice guy. And quick for that size. I think he got up way over 300.

And he went to Vegas, and he ended up having a heart attack or something. Well, this guy was the guy that was hanging around with Vitor. So did this guy get Vitor on illegal substances? Only Vitor knows. Only Vitor knows. You know, I mean, it is what it is. It is what it is. Look, you can't take away from the guy's skill. Undoubtedly.

Great jiu-jitsu. Great striking. But goddamn, TRTV tour. That era. TRTV tour. I'm going to call it forever. Everyone's going to call it forever. If you look at those TRTV fights. He's been nuts lately. Look at the fight with Luke Rockhold. I really wanted that fight. We all

wanted it. Chris wanted it. That would have been a good fight. I feel that? I really wanted that fight. We all wanted it. Chris wanted it. That would have been a good fight. I feel that would have been a good fight for Chris. Really good fight. I think it was a really fascinating fight, man.

Because if you look at him, Dan Henderson, Michael Bisping, and Luke Rockhold, those are the TRTV tour fights. That's the TRTV tour era. One of the most impressive fighters of all time.

In those three fights. In those three fights. And those guys are all studs. Those are fucking spectacular victories. Three absolutely spectacular victories. That's true, man. That Vitor... And that's why I think

that it's really upsetting that him and Chris that didn't work out. Because I think Chris had the recipe to really shine. Well, it'd be really interesting, too, from a style perspective. Just look at Chris in that first round with Anderson. You know what it is? No one gets overshadowed that that first round could be very well a 10-8 round

with Chris and Anderson. It gets overshadowed. The first fight or the second fight? Second fight. Second fight. Oh, yeah. Or the first fight, too. Could have been.

I mean, but he knocked him down. With a tight clinch, he did the, oh, he hit him with that hand. He hurt him. He almost, he could have had him out of there. But that was such a dominating first round that, you know, just the best was yet to come before that. But, I know he won, but still. He was mauling Anderson that first round.

It was disturbing to me because I had an issue, you know, look, obviously I'm no doctor, I'm no medical expert. When a guy gets KO'd, though, and I see a guy who gets brutally KO'd come back six months later, I'm always like, hmm, man, I don't know. I mean, listen, it's obvious that guys lose their chins for a reason. See, I'm pretty lucky in that sense because I fought a lot of, especially in my earlier fights, I fought 100%. I mean, I'd get my sparring in and this and that, but I would be very jujitsu based.

Like that's why everybody thought I was going to get destroyed by St. Pierre. Cause they thought I'd had the same strategy of close the distance, get it down and strike my way in. But that's what I would do, you know? But, um, where the fuck was I going? We're talking about guys getting KO'd and then coming back. Yeah. Oh yeah.

So in other words, like I didn't have too many many fights like my last fight with fucking Chris Lytle. If I had fucking five fights like that, I'd be... Yeah, but still, you didn't get KO'd in that fight. No, I didn't get KO'd, but that's one of the fights where... I don't even think I had a concussion after that fight. I was fine. But I did... You don't want to eat too many.

You don't want too many of those fights. Yes. You know what I mean? No, I agree. I waited to quench that thirst as I went on in my career. Because I know I'm not going to do too many of those fights. Yes. You know what I mean? No, I agree. I waited to quench that thirst as I went on in my career because I know I'm not going to do too many of those.

Did you have that fight? Did you have that fight like the fight with Lytle like that, like the stand-up? Did you make it a stand-up fight because a lot of people complained about the first fight?

First fight, how bad it was? Yeah. There was a lot of boos and it was, you guys, I thought it was a great fight because it was interesting. A little too much

up against the cage, but man, let me just tell you really quick. And again, it kind of goes back to that, that Caro fight.

I lost that fight and that led to the Ultimate Fighter and that changed my life, the Ultimate Fighter. You were asking me how it felt to be in the house

and it changed, that was an opportunity where I remember when the Ultimate Fighter started and I was already in the UFC for a little bit, you know, 2001 and it started in That was an opportunity where I remember when the Ultimate Fighter started and I was already in the UFC for a little bit, you know, 2001 and it started in what,

2004 or whatever it was. The Ultimate Fighter, I think it was five. Yeah, I guess so. I feel like it was 2005. So I was already in the UFC for a while. So I missed the boat on that

because I'm like, man, look at the exposure these guys are getting because when these guys are fighting, the Josh Kosheks and Diego Sanchez, the fans are reacting

and I'm like, wow, man, these guys are getting some. That show did wonders for these guys. You can't buy that type of exposure. So when they approached me with that comeback show and thank. And like, again, it goes back to one of those things where I was like, man, it was the worst night of my life. Ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me in the long run because that's what led me to the ultimate fighter to the title to whatnot you know so what was it like being a pro and then being on that show being in the house training with all those other high level guys it was like dudes man all veterans

very cool guys and uh i'll tell you it was one of those things where everything just it worked out so much i made i mean it was i looked at it i looked at it going in there like it's going to be a training camp. Like look at it like just a – that's it. I'm looking at like – not a training camp as much as a – what was the word I was using for that? It was basically like basically all I'm there to do is just fucking train train train and and it was such an opportunity that I didn't look at it like I had to win this fucking thing I looked at it like I always kind of put less uh um pressure on myself by looking at like all right you know what man I never have a a a boring a boring fight I never I always pride myself on being aggressive and having a good fight.

If I go on here and let's say I don't end up winning, I'm still going to get good exposure from my schools. And I always end up fighting and teaching hand-in-hand. So the worst-case scenario is not going to be that big because I'm going to have this training camp. Either way, I'm either way I'm gonna make out with this thing you know what I mean I'm gonna it's gonna be a good thing but uh I made you know that you know going in there with those guys it's different than these other seasons where you have

a bunch of knuckleheads in there these are all good dudes man you know what I mean the guys that been in the game a while uh and and our team in particular team mojo I mean those guys we had such a we we all meshed those guys, we had such a, we all meshed so well, and we had such a good time. Drago went on the show with me. It was such a good time. It's different.

Was that season the same season that Travis Luter was on? Yeah, yeah, me and Travis. Travis, we were supposed to fight on the same day, and George got hurt. That's when he fought Anderson by himself. We would do it the same day. But he fought Anderson and gassed out. Travis Luter was one of the best guys that ever fought in MMA he's

phenomenal man he but he's and I love try still talk to Travis he's uh once in a while we took once a while for a while after the show to we were both movie buffs so we call up every once in a while and just bullshit if we saw the latest flick and this and that kid was an animal I remember when he fought Cote and took his arm I was like I. I was like, that motherfucker is good. No, no, just really good. You could see in his jujitsu. But there was definitely, in a sense, where I'm on that show.

I was in phenomenal shape for that show. I dieted real hard. So I'm in there eating raisins, and he's eating fucking M&Ms. And I go, dude. I go, he's like, sugar, sugar. I go, not really, dude. You're telling me sugar, sugar? I can eat those M&Ms instead of these fucking raisins? Are you sure about that?

He goes, sugar, sugar. He had that kind of laid back, where I don't know how, I think he was always his own trainer, and that's probably the problem. Because again, I loved watching him fight. Because that guy, even Rich Franklin, that's another guy. He was close to Armbar. He could have been something like you talked about. That's what I'm saying.

He needed a long go. He needed a guy to fucking. Well, he eventually did. He eventually went to Greg Jackson's, but it was probably too little too late. It was the end of his career. He's having back problems, neck problems, all that shit. I got to have him out for a seminar. I think I told him.

His fucking jiu-jitsu is tight, man. I remember I talked to Charles McCarthy about it. And Charles McCarthy said, dude, he's as good as Laborio. He goes, he's fucking good. He's one of those guys. You know, me and him didn't roll because we were on the opposite teams. You know what I mean? So I think he was like the jiu-jitsu guy on that team.

And even though Charles McCarthy was on it. Right. But he was also 185 too, right? And you were 170, wasn't it? Yeah, but I'm saying I never got to feel how he felt. But I heard from all the guys how great he was. You know, we didn't get to work too much together. But we hung, you know.

It was good. Yeah, he was a guy that I felt like, man, what a massive potential he had. Well, that's another guy that you look at the guys he had in trouble. It's a different career. Anderson Silva, mounted. Rich Franklin's arm. I mean, all these fights. Just wasn't in good enough shape to pull it off for real.

And it was one of those things, if he didn't submit you, then he started gassing and then said, you know, you don't want to. And he had some power. He knocked out the other, what's his name, Marvin Eastman. That's a weird knockout, though, because Marvin Eastman had gotten knocked out twice in training. He got KO'd by T.O.R.T. But that was a big overhand, man.

It was weird. It just touched him. Do you remember it? I got to see that again. I think he whacked him with it, man. It was weird. It just touched him. Do you remember it? I got to see that again. Okay. Marvin. I think he whacked him with it, man. Overhand whack.

Check it out. Travis Luter. Pull up Travis Luter versus Marvin Eastman. All right. You remember this clearly? Yeah. Clearly, clearly. Yeah.

I'm thinking he blasted him with it, but I was there live. I got to see it. He caught him at the very end of it, and it was odd. Yeah? Yeah, because Marvin went out cold. Because I remember nothing happened in the first round. It was one of those fights where it was boring as shit, and then the second round, he just odd. Yeah? Yeah, because Marvin went out cold. Because I remember nothing happened in the first round. It was one of those fights where it was boring as shit. And then the second round, he just

boom. Yeah, just pull up Travis Luter KO's Marvin Eastman. He caught him on the end of it and he goes right out. And then I started talking to people. I wanted to find out what happened because it didn't look right to me. Yeah. But it was a real knockout for sure. And then they told me that he got knocked out twice in training. Oh, well, that definitely

can't help. Yeah. So he came into it. Pull it up a little bit. You might want to go past that first round. Find where the KO is. Do it off camera. Find out where the KO is. And he cracked him on the end of it. It was a good punch, but it didn't look like enough to knock Marvin Eastman out cold.

Here it is right here. There's a little bit Eastman out cold. Here it is. Right here. There's like a little bit of an exchange here. Let's see that overhand right. Boom. Here it comes. See that? No. I don't know, man.

That didn't clock him? I don't know. Let's see that again. Maybe. I think that was squaring his fucking noggin. I don't know. See if there's a slow-mo version of it. Yeah, let's see that.

I remember in real life thinking it grazed him. Thinking it looked like it grazed him. Because it didn't even snap his head back. Yeah, it doesn't look like it hit him. Oh, that angle's different. That's a little... Let me see that again. See, watch this.

I think Marvin had something wrong with him, man. I think Marvin went into that fight already concussed. I'm pretty sure. And that's not taking anything away from Travis, because I think Travis is still awesome with him, man. I think Marvin went into that fight already concussed. I'm pretty sure. And that's not taking anything away from Travis, because I think Travis is still awesome. Oh, that's interesting. But you see, the one angle did look like he fucking planted him, though. Sort of. But when I saw it live, I remember thinking, wow, that's weird.

You know what? I was there live. That was in New Jersey, I think. I don't remember where that was. But it's interesting when you look back at these guys that were competing then and how many of them were left in the game, and then you see TRT Vitor from 97 was about to fight Weidman for the fucking title. Way before a lot of these dudes and everybody else was burnt out,

TRT Vitor is fucking throwing wheel kicks. Yeah, dude. The guys he beat, like Bisping and Luke. The Luke fight was incredibly impressive. And the Henderson fight, incredibly impressive. But they were all the first and second round, no? Uh-huh, yeah. That's where you have to look into that championship stuff.

When did he get Americaned by Jon Jones? What round? It was in the fourth or fifth round, I believe. Before that, why was he going to guard? Well, he caught Vitor. And he on-locked almost, which is nice. I know for a fact that Vitor went into that fight with a bad hand. I know for a fact. Okay, alright.

Because I talked to Vitor. There's always stuff behind the scenes, man. I was eating with Mike Goldberg in Brazil, and Vitor sat down with us and was showing me his hand. He had just had a pin pulled out of it. He had just had this thing done. He had broken his hand at least seven times.

So from the point where we saw him in Brazil to the point where he fought Jon Jones was only a few months. So I guarantee you his hand was still fucking with him. I guarantee you. He caught Jon Jones with that armbar, remember? Popped his arm. That was a good fucking armbar. You know what's funny about that? He's not

really ever threatening that much from back. He's got it. He's always had it. His much from back. No, but he's got it. You're right. Yeah. He's always had it. He just does. His hands are so goddamn good. His kicks are so fucking good. I mean, Vitor in those fights, I think, goes down in history as some of the most impressive performances ever.

Yeah, that's why. It's a bummer, man. It's a bummer that he's not fighting. Well, he is. He's going to fight again. Yeah. He's just got to get his body natural. The question is, can he, at this point in time, get to a point where he's just got to get his body natural the question is can he at this point in time get

to a point where he's so healthy that he can actually fight not just not just like get to a point where he can walk around but get to a point where he can you know have levels high enough so he can sustain a training camp i don't know man i the trt stuff like i didn't do that when i was like when i was fighting because then you got that stigma with you that you're right now you're that guy now you're the TRT guy with that well it's interesting but it's funny how some guys people don't even bring up stuff about guys

who you definitely have that gut feeling or whatever it's like these other some guys are like the greatest for this and that meanwhile you know they're just fucking jacked up on something and it's like I don't know I just think it's funny how certain guys have that stigma with them, but it should be more, but I don't know. I don't know for sure anything.

I know what you're saying. Because I'm one of those guys that I played it straight. You know what I mean? I never did anything, so I always thought of it like that. But when you talk to certain guys and they go, fucking everybody's using in camp, and you're like, wait a minute, what? That's a Vitor set. When they talk to Vitor about it, he's like fucking everybody's using in camp and you're like wait a minute what like that's a vitor said yeah when they talk to vitor about he's like everybody's using in camp you're like whoa hold on hold on hold on hold on who everybody has in everybody

in his camp yeah everybody's in who like you can't say you can't say everybody i know what i've done you know what i mean bj is another guy oh for sure man no no there's a lot of great great fighters totally clean. And then you got to wonder, what would they be like if they're TRT, BJ, and this and that? John Fitch, totally clean, 100% guaranteed. Guaranteed. I talked to that guy. No, for sure. I believe it.

His philosophy about it. It's fascinating, right? I mean, that's, hey, man. I mean, that's how I felt. Boy. You know, here's where it gets real weird. Then they pull the fucking rug out from under him. No more TRT.

So all these guys who've been on it for years, Vitor's been on it for years now. And bringing your body back to a natural state is not easy. It's going to take many months. And these endocrinologists who have talked about it and have done interviews with it, they've said, well, this is really hard to do. You're going to be in agony. You're going to feel like shit. You're going to have to take a bunch of other drugs that are going to stimulate your going to feel like shit. You're going to have to take a bunch of other drugs

that are going to stimulate your body's production of testosterone. You're going to have to not compete for a while. Yeah. You're going to have to take some time off. Man, hey, that's why I didn't fuck with it before that, man. I started doing it recently, though, to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah.

Just because I got my stuff tested. And I'm always on the mat, I felt. When did you start? How long ago did you start doing it? A few months ago. Yeah? Yeah. That's another thing. When you ask me about the bad use thing, I'm like, well mat I felt and how long ago did you start doing that a few months ago yeah that's another thing when you ask me about

the bad use thing I'm like well now it's a little more complicated I would still love to fight him but I'm like oh fuck I didn't even know about that but you look better man you look healthy

you look like you were getting really heavy for a while now you just look like a troll what the fuck man how's that a compliment a troll

that's a good troll you know what I try to do what's his name what's the green guy what's the What's his name What's the green guy What's the green guy's name Who's the green guy No the fucking guy Shrek

Dude you're calling me Shrek And you're saying That's a fucking compliment That was yoked The guy's yoked I don't see your face You're a beautiful man And then you're like

You know you look like that I'm like oh He's telling me the whole I'm like well I'm too short I'm just very troll Like myself I compare myself To a bridge troll all the time. A bridge troll?

Yeah, if you got any bridge troll clothes, my body's full of them. Yeah, but you see like, Bridge Troll? What's it called? Bridge Troll? Bridge Troll? A troll from under the bridge. Oh, is that what it is? Bridge Troll.

Get it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I never heard Bridge Troll before. Really? I fucking ain't. It's Long Island. You got to get off Long Island. You got to see the world.

Jesus Christ. I've been all over the world. Come on, man. We had a good time in England, remember? Oh, we did. Really? A fucking A. Long Island. You got to get off Long Island. You got to see the world. Jesus Christ. I've been all over the world. Come on, man. We had a good time in England, remember? Oh, we did. Yeah, we sure did. We had a lot of fun in England. I love England.

Fun. We've had fun all over the place. So much fun that we're not going to even talk about it. It's not really good. It wasn't bad. It's so fun when you're in. But it was cool exploring cities. Oh, dude.

A bunch of guys out on the road in New York. You were there for other guys' fights. For sure, man. I'm so fortunate, man. Japan three times, Brazil. Every time Brazil three times, that was a month at a clip. Back in

when I was 23, I was the only American on the mat. There's times when I was in Japan and Brazil where I'm the only American on the mat. I times when i was in in japan and in and and brazil where i'm the only american on the mat man i remember i was in in japan and uh for one of henzo's fights i believe and uh cardo was with me cardo almeida and uh we went down henzo goes i want you to go down and work with the all the japanese guys were getting ready for abu dhabi so you had everybody there from sakurai to uno to Jinky Sudo.

So he goes, I want you guys to go down there and train with them. And I'm like, ah, man, Henzo, we're on vacation, man. We're chilling with you. He's like, no, that's good experience. Fucking go there. So we were going to go. And then Ricardo ended up rolling with Hein the night before. And fucking Hein was a nut.

He ended up hurting him somehow, his leg, you know? So I ended up being the only guy to roll down there. So I got the, it was so cool, man. I got to roll with like, uh,

we had four minute matches and it was just all, I was the only, uh, little American guy in there. It was, I got to roll with a lot of good guys, man. Genki Sudo,

Uno, and, uh, who else? Another guy. I don't know. Who's it? I don't want to say Takashi

he had a very good guard we started on one side of the mat to the other it was all Japanese reporters at one point I jumped a guard on Genki Sudo

and he would stand back and start going in a windmill like make me go in a circle and then I'd open up and he'd try to get a foot lock

it was just such a cool memory man and I got out and got on top but that's not the point of the story. But it was cool, though. You had some big victories over some guys in grappling. Yeah, man. Because at one point in time, when you were competing just primarily as a grappler,

you were thought as one of the most dangerous guys. Thanks, man. Thanks. I appreciate that. Those stuff, those memories, like I said, man, they just,

I think we were talking about traveling the world. That's how it came up. There was one time when I went to fight that time in, in pride and I didn't end up fighting. Uh, Henzo did a seminar and he had me roll. And I don't know how many guys were there, 20,

30, whatever it was. And this was a different time. So they weren't as skilled as they were. There was some shootout fighters in there for sure. He had me roll with every single person in that fucking seminar. I had to fucking roll and tap out. Wow.

It was, it was, it was, and I was in shape and I was rolling all, it was, you know, all day long. You ever see that video of Hickson doing a seminar and tapping like 30 guys? Oh yeah, man. Well, back then it was normal. Yeah. Because when I used to do seminars as a brown belt and stuff and i used to roll with everybody i didn't give a fuck i'd roll anyway all day long anyway not as much

now because now you get fucking guys just wanting to do well with you and now you're gonna name you know it's a different time now right so i mean i'll roll with guys i'm you know i'm cool wit and whatnot but you know i at the back then at the seminar i would just at the end of the seminar just line up everybody and roll man one time here in in vegas i was at a place and and i was rolling with some guys then i went with a really big guy as a brown belt and he was either a white belt or a blue belt he was tough and like man his kid's tough ain't he's frank mirror it ended up being i got tape it out so i would never use he didn't know nothing like that but uh you know it was fucking badass yeah he was young man yeah well he was like oh he was either a white belt or a blue belt but it was ages ago man he was a kid he was a kid do you remember Frank Mir's first UFC fight

he fought on the same fight night that I would Pete Williams no before that he oh Roberto Traven yeah he broke Roberto Traven's arm yeah Roberto Traven was a fucking jiu-jitsu champion back then. Yeah. And everybody was looking for him to be the bad motherfucker. But that's the thing, man. It's funny how, well, I mean, at the end of the day, the art is, and he's phenomenal, that guy. But that was still the time where, you know,

they're thinking you're a black belt in jiu-jitsu means you're just a bad motherfucker, and it's not the case. It was also the difference between guys who were only ju, the only key guys. Hey, man. Here it is. Roberto Travitt.

Look at that. Frank Mir, 22 years old. Yeah, man. Holy shit. He's another guy. He's in that TRT boat. He's got to figure out what to do now.

Yeah, yeah. Like, pull that back. Pull that back so you see the entrance into that. I think he punched his way in, man. He was kicking on me. He was fast as shit then, too.

He was different, man. He was kicking on me. He was fast as shit then, too. He was different, man. He was a different guy. The fucking car accident, he got hit by a car when he was on a motorcycle. It snapped his femur, the big bone of the leg, which is very different.

This Roberto Traven that you're looking at there, that was a jiu-jitsu champion. Everybody was like, oh, shit, Roberto Traven's fighting the UFC now. Frank was just a 22-year-old kid. Yeah, I remember this, man.

The guy went to his ass. I didn't know that. Dropped a guard. Yeah, see, that's a defense mechanism right there, man. You know what I mean? Yeah, I guess. For sure. But he's also—

You know what that is? That's a guy that's not sparring. That's what that is. Yeah. Well, also, I thought he probably felt like he had a big advantage on the ground. You know, I mean, he's Roberto Traven. This is the guy that everybody talks about. Yeah.

He's a pretty high-level jiu-jitsu guy. No, no, very. Frank, he was attacking. Old-school alliance guy. Yeah, man. And he got back up to his feet. Oh, yeah. This is, wow, I haven't seen this in ages.

Yeah, me neither. I think he does a, he starts kicking him in the leg. There you go. I remember this. Well, Frank was a karate guy back then, too, right? Remember his dad was a karate instructor, I think? Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

He had the old school shorts, too. Nobody wears them bitches anymore. Dana doesn't even let you wear those. I used to wear those things. He tagged him. Look at this. Takes his arm. Is this a gross break?

That's fucking crazy, man. He hurt it for sure. That's crazy. He broke his arm, man. But that's crazy that Roberto Terebin got tapped like that. Yeah, but. He heard it for sure. That's crazy. He broke his arm, man. But that's crazy that Roberto Torevon got tapped like that. Yeah, but... Didn't see it coming. Some guys, man, they're just not made for the MMA, man.

You know, they just don't want to get hit. They don't want to get touched. What's the difference? When you first started fighting MMA, how much of a difference is it with the gloves on? How hard is it to secure certain positions? How hard is it to finish, like, chokes and things it's huge it's huge in the back man i thought i even medjavar and credit to uriah uriah faber for choking him because that motherfucker has no neck man i don't

know maybe he's lighter and his neck came out a little bit rise got a hell of a squeeze oh he's got oh that's fucking nice that was beautiful man but uh i had that little fucker's neck and i love i even mentioned what a nice guy He was such a good guy. I was just trying to get a hold of that neck. At one point, he even put his fingers inside. This happened to Al when Al went for a heel hook, by the way, in his last fight. Al

went for a heel hook on Kevin Lee. He does that nice one off a single leg. Not to switch gears, but it goes with the gloves. He had that thing on, and then the other kevin grabbed inside it's one of those things where yeah it sucks but you know guys end up saving their ass man it's your ass out there i remember that heel hook attempt that was very very technical that looked tight as shit he's really good at that and uh he said man he goes

i would have had it man and the guy had his fingers in my glove how could the referee not see that that happened to me with my ivan medjivar same thing I don't know who was the referee I forget but Ivan Medjivar had that shit in there and then they tell you to stop it in the meantime the guy's got it let's go and still you don't it's kind of interesting because you can use that on your side though yeah like when you're choking a guy you can get your hand inside the glove and it's legal yeah grab your own your own glove. Oh, yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, I never really. Josh Thompson uses that sometimes. I never really used it yet.

He uses it pretty slick. He finishes the choke. That guy's a veteran. He's slick. Yeah, he's good. I like the way he was taking Benson's back in that last fight. Yeah. Dude, that was a fucking great fight.

That was a very good fight. I would have been really interested to see what happened if he didn't hurt his hand early in that fight. He hurt his hand pretty bad. He fucked up his thumb. That sucks, man. Yeah, he broke his thumb, I think, in the first or second round it was a close one though interesting fight very interesting fight um you can also grab your shorts right if you're defending like kimura you can grab your shorts yeah you can't grab the you just can't grab anything on the other guy basically i believe you can't grab your shorts yeah you just can't grab the other guy's shorts yeah is that it yeah you can grab your own you can grab your shorts. Yeah, you just can't grab the other guy's shorts. Yeah, is that it? Yeah, you can grab your own. You can grab your own defensively.

You can hold on to it, which I think doesn't make sense. You should either grab clothes or you can't grab clothes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, I should know these fucking rules. I didn't know if you were able to grab the... You know why? Because I don't try to rely on that shit, you know, grabbing the stuff. But it's funny, man.

I was watching my buddy. They got me at the fight pass you know so one of my students was watching my old fight with Eves Edwards and it was so it's funny how your game goes

you have to evolve or die man it goes through transitions because I remember that fight uh it was very I was

again I won with Jiu Jitsu but there was so many positions where I could have been just trying to hammer him. To his credit, by the way, Yves Edwards, he was a good dude. Love that guy. Very good guy.

Old school guy. Love watching his fights. Man, like we always talk about, the whole game of inches, man. That was my second fight in the UFC. I got stopped by Shoney with the spinning back fist. That could have been my—I mean, he knocked me down with a beautiful uppercut because I tried – he was on southpaw. I tried to close the distance without striking like an idiot. And I got caught with an uppercut that put me on my ass.

He jumped on me, but he was so afraid of my jiu-jitsu back then or concerned about it that he jumped on and he – I went to grab him. He jumped the fuck back out. I was all right in my head. I got back up, but I was on queer street for sure, man. I was just, I got to get my head straight. And then I got, second end of the round, ended it shortly after that. And that motherfucker would have jumped on me,

started firing off some elbows. I might've been out of there. He knows it too. I break his chops back. On Twitter the other day, I saw something about his first fight and that was me in the UFC. And I told him I still feel that uppercut.

But again again game of inches in this game man I'm very lucky to achieve what I achieved when you see Eve now and you see he's lost a couple fights by KO now it's like yeah stout fight and then his last fight was pretty bad you know when you start seeing that and it starts happening more and more frequently yeah do you do you feel for that guy because you were you know you were coming up with him yeah you know I don't know all these years later. Yeah, but again, he's still beating

some ass out of you. Oh, yeah. Jeremy Stevens. He knocked out Jeremy Stevens. I mean, that alone. Yeah, that wasn't too long ago, right?

No, not too long ago. How was his last fight? He lost. He got stopped in the fight for the troops. I don't want to bring up negative shit. Yeah, well,

he's a great fighter. Yeah, he's phenomenal. Very crafty fighter, too. Oh, man, what a dude. That guy had a toy clinch where, you know. But he doesn't, it doesn't. That guy had a tight clinch where, you know. But it doesn't seem like he takes a shot as well as he used to. I mean, the last fight, he got caught really clean.

Man, listen, it's going to catch up to you sooner or later. I mean, especially not only that, even the sparring. You know the last time I sparred? When? Getting ready for my Lionel fight. That's the last time I took a shot to the head. I need jiu-jitsu. I have to train. shot to the head. I need jiu-jitsu. I have to train.

That's my therapy. I love jiu-jitsu. But I hit the tight pants. And don't get me wrong, I can play stand. But I'm talking about sparring. Like, when I spar for a fight, that's the last time I made a fucking deposit out of the bank. Was that that last fight? Yancy Medeiros.

That was who stopped Yves. Oh, yeah? It was overturned. It turned into a no contest. Oh, so it might have been the back of the head, then. That's even worse. No, no, no. I think Yancy was, I think he had weed in his system.

Oh, did he? Yeah, pretty sure. Which is hilarious, because he was fighting the fight for the troops. And he's high as fuck. I mean, he wasn't high as fuck. Nah. Most likely what it was was just trace amounts in the system. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it was weed, though. Well, that sucks. That blows. Nah. Most likely what it was was just trace amounts in the system. Yeah. I'm pretty sure it was Eves. Well, that sucks. Well, that blows.

Yeah. But, um, anyway, yeah, no, Eves is, again, that Jeremy Stevens fight wasn't that long ago, so, you know, if he still feels he could do it, you know, who knows what situation's like at home with everybody, you know what I mean? Guys gotta fight for different reasons, you know? Yeah, and at one point in time with Eves, Eves was, like,

one of the best lightweights on the planet. Oh, yeah, man. I think even Dana was calling him like that was the unofficial lightweight champ. You know what I mean? Yeah. When they did away with the division for a while. Yeah. When you stop and think about it, it's like that era, you know, when they removed the lightweight division.

Remember when the UFC? Yeah, man. When Zufa first bought the UFC. The lightweight division was like everybody had to go overseas. Everybody had to fight somewhere else. Yeah, for sure. Bodog. Yves fought Bodog.

Fought Jorge Masvidal. Yeah. Yeah. That was like the first time he got stopped. He got stopped by Masvidal. Did he? Head kicked. Yeah.

Oh, man. I didn't know that. I didn't follow that Bodog too much. I heard about it. I didn't get to see it too much. I don't know where to find it, though. That's what it was. Yeah, I mean, you might have been stopped before. I didn't follow that Bodog too much. I heard about it. I didn't get to see it too much. I don't know where to find it, though. That's what it was. Yeah, it was on weird channels and shit. I don't remember, but there were some good fights.

Fedor fought Matt Lindland. Remember that? Oh, I've seen that. Yeah. Yeah. That was a Bodog fight. Ah, the old school fights, man. Matt Lindland was a bad motherfucker.

Matt Lindland was. One of the reasons why it made the Bustamante fight so impressive. Man, Bustamante was phenomenal. Bustamante was the reigning champ for a while. Then I think he had contract problems and he went over to Japan and, again, took some fights maybe on short... Oh, yeah, during his prime. Took some fights on short notice. Well, that was what Japan was all about, right?

Japan was all about giving you fights on short notice. Like, remember the pride cards would be coming up, and they would be throwing fights together like the week before. Oh, yeah, I remember. I was living with Rodrigo, man. Rodrigo beat Sakurai, which was huge at the time. And I remember it was like he found out like a few weeks before. He was all, fuck, man.

But we were always training, but it was different back then. You know? It was crazy. You knew High and Gracie when he was at his craziest, too, huh? Oh, yeah, for sure. I used to train with him. He liked me, man. He was a wild, wild guy.

You know what I mean? Henzo, I remember one time I was training with him in the city. Henzo was on 25th Street. He used to rent out a kung fu place. And I had a training with High. And he always liked me because he knows how loyal I was to Henzo he knew I was Henzo's you know Henzo's guy for sure so you know he had like a deep voice and he was talking to Henzo and he goes I don't speak Portuguese and then he's pointing to me and

he's going I'm a little bit off the side but I noticed what's going on and I'm thinking what the fuck's going on here you know what's this guy talking about I go you know because you don't know because you know he was he was a little off the wall high end you know and I'm thinking, what the fuck's going on here? You know, what's this guy talking about? I go, you know, because you don't know, because, you know, he was a little off the wall high end, you know, and I'm like, what's going to happen here? What is up? And then I found out he was telling Henzo, he used to have a problem with Makako. You know Makako?

Yeah, sure. Tough guy, used to fight Pele. Still fighting. Yeah, nice guy, nice guy. He's the first guy to beat Chakaray. Oh, yeah, he fucking knocked him out. No, good, nice guy, tough guy. He's still in it. He's the first guy to beat Chakaray. Oh, yeah, he fucking knocked him out. No, good, nice guy, tough guy. Who is he with?

He's with the kid, Oliveira. Who was he with? No, no, no, now he's with, he coached the lanky kid that fought him. Yeah, Oliveira. Yeah, there he is. That's right, I had that right. Yeah, out of Houston. Good fight.

Where's Frankie Edgar? I don't have to get off the subject, but that came to mind. That was a great fight. That was a phenomenal fight. Frankie's Frankie Edgar? I'd have to get off the schedule. Subject, but that came to mind. That was a great fight. That was a phenomenal fight. Frankie's a fucking awesome fighter. I enjoy watching him. Just because Styles makes fights and that guy's,

you get him down, he's fucking wiry as fuck, standing up, he's on knees and elbows and Frankie, that was an awesome, awesome fight. Olivera's a young kid too.

Yeah, he's all potential in the world. But that's who is, that's his coach, Makako, for the people who don't know who the guy is, you know. But I remember what he was telling Henzo was, I was going to Brazil recently. And he wanted to fight Makako.

And he wanted me to fight Makako's partner at the academy or something. It was something wild, like some kind of challenge match. Like a jiu-jitsu? No, I think he wanted, he goes, man, I'll fight. He was trying to tell Henzo Like I'm gonna I wanna fight him And I want Matt to fight I don't know who the

I don't even know who the guy was Or whatever Henzo's like man He's going in a train Leave him alone I didn't know I'm like fuck man What the hell is going on here

There was a lot of That challenge match Type atmosphere Man let me tell you something even back even when me and my brother

and stuff we used to teach a lot for Henzo and run the academy when he wasn't there or he'd come in at night we'd run it during the day but then there was some nights

he wasn't making it in and we used to have it was a different time man a different time it was a different time because you'd have guys coming in back on 27th Street when it was back when it was Gracie Kukuk, with Craig Kukuk.

Yeah. And- I bought those tapes. Yeah. Oh, that's how I found out about Craig. I started with Craig for two years. Really? And then Henzo came.

And Craig was under- Where'd that guy go? Man, they had a bad split, him and Henzo. And he went to fucking Idaho or something. I think he made money off making some kind of special flashlight or something. Not the fleshlight, not the fleshlight, the fleshlight. A special flashlight, not to be confused. Yeah, not to be confused with the fleshlight.

But anyway, I started with Craig for a couple years, then Enzo came. And Craig had very good basics a very good very good uh basics very very good a good fundamental game because he came from Horion and Hoyce that's who he trained with I think he got a black belt from Elio and Hoyler whatever it is and then they had a they had a dispute so he was outed from them that side but back then for me to learn jiu-jitsu it was one day a week with Craig in Manhattan this is before Henzo came one day a week I had in Manhattan. This is before Henzo came. One day a week, I had one class at a judo school in downtown. And then after a while, I'd end up

driving to Red Bank, New Jersey from my house. And that's almost over a couple hours from Long Island. And just to get a private lesson with him, just to learn. Back then, we couldn't learn. It's not like now, where you could jump on fucking the computer and learn some stuff. You could go to an academy down the block. You don't like this academy.

Let me try this. No, man. There was no way to learn it. Those were good tapes, man. Yeah, they were good. Listen. I would take things that I learned there and I would try them out at John Jocks. And some of them were like really effective moves.

I believe when it comes to Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, it always evolves because now it's so much bigger and there's so many people doing it. So you can always add to the arsenal and see what works for you. But man, again, that old... The basics. I believe in starting from... You need that strong foundation and the basics are worth that. Hickson, all basics.

You know what I like? What you talked about about Hickson is his philosophy where it started zero and you said it on here and I love it because that is that's how I look at it as a neutral point when we move to one I'm not going back to zero go to two

from two I go to three and then checkmate but that's how it should and I try to preach that to my guys when alright

you're on bottom you like the guard you get a reversal the guy just he blows hard you're back on your ass no man you get on top.

I know you like to guard. Work it next round. Let's stay on top for the rest of the round. You end up on top. You're a butterfly guard. I want you to pass the knee line. Or else I want you to get into half guard. I want you to pass half guard.

I want you to get cross side. From cross side, I don't want you to get back to half guard. I want you to mount or take the back or finish. You mount, you're finishing or you're taking the back. Keep improving. And you know what? Shit's going to happen. The guy sometimes is going to reverse you.

So what? You have a guard, use it then. But don't just go to where you like to roll. Do you wish, do you wish that you had ever fought when there was no time limits? It's a different game, man. It's a different, hey, listen, I, man, I'm going to say I exceeded my expectations as far as,

you know, when I first started training my biggest thing I used to watch those crazy inactions I'm like oh maybe one day I could have my school and I'll have a fucking challenge match I mean I had never thought of fucking UFC and this and that but as far as with the the no time limits it's a different it's it's it's it's it's a uh a different philosophy man because that way you don't have to get into any fucking exchanges as much. You know what I mean? Right. You could just work on your defense.

It's a totally different thing. Totally different thing also with no gloves, right? I'm going to say so. Did you ever have any fights with no gloves? No. For folks who don't realize, the gloves, two things. One, it makes striking way harder. You'd think it would make it easier because it's, you know, bare knuckle.

No, it's actually harder to hit a guy with bare knuckles. You hurt your hands more. I mean, I fought with no gloves, but I haven't had any MMA fights with no gloves. I know what it's like to bust your hand. I have a boxer's break if you see my pinky. Oh, you fought like a street fight. Oh, yeah. No gloves.

I know what it's like. You hit wrong or something like that. You hit people's foreheads. Oh, yeah. But it also makes the grappling way easier to secure chops. Oh, for sure, man. Yeah, that's what I wanted to talk to you about, like your ability to choke guys because of those gloves. How much, what do you think it like reduces it, 50%, 30%?

Did you ever roll with the gloves on? No. I mean, yes. You should. Yes, I have, but like not too seriously. Not too seriously. Well, you know what? I mean, it makes a huge difference as far as because, you know, it makes more space. You know what I mean?

You need more space to get that underneath. That's why, like a lot, like if I have the back, like I like to bring it up as far as possible when I'm going for like the rear naked. And I do it almost like a crank on the jaw where like if I'm around the neck here, I'll go palm to palm, elbow in, where his head is resting on my shoulder. Now I just compress it. Even if he has his chin in, I'll just start bringing this back. And then it's – the guy – when I fought Delonte, that's what I did. You'll see him put it on his neck because that's going to break the jaw.

So it compresses, and I slip to it to, you know – So it's almost like they want the choke going to break the jaw. So it compresses and I slip to it to, you know. So it's almost like they want the choke to get off the jaw. If you go back and you ever watch my Delonte fight,

watch when I'm on his back and he actually puts it on his jaw because it was just glued, you know, because his head has nowhere to go. So that's going to

take that jaw out. What did you think when Damien Maia used that on Rick Story? That was pretty goddamn impressive. He did that on Rick Story, right? Yeah, that was beautiful. Pretty damn impressive.

Yeah. No, Damian, listen. You know what? Damian Maia, you know what a thing of fucking brilliance was his passing versus Rory McDonald? Yes. Rory McDonald. First fight. First round, rather.

Yeah. Oh, dude. That was... Man, I'm a big fan of... That passing, that was his i love i man i'm a big fan of uh uh that that passing was that was beautiful because the i'll tell you right now rory's butterfly guard was impressive he was always he always had a presence of mind to keep one knee to the ceiling where he knows if those knees go to the side he's fucking fucked so you'd always have hips out knee to ceiling and and to no that was a beautiful thing to watch i want to watch that again how he

passed right up the middle boom right up at the mount and that was a beautiful thing to watch. I want to watch that again, how he passed right up the middle, boom, right up at the mount, and that was a fucking black belt mount. That was a thing. That was beautiful, man. The guy got it. It just shows you to shape the other guys in to withstand that and then come back and do what he did. Yeah, and hurt him with those body kicks. Hurt him with those body kicks in the second round.

They had this thing after the fight. It was the first time they've ever done this where they asked me who I think should get The next shot of the title, of course everybody but Rory got upset because I thought Rory should I mean it was between Hector Rory and Tyron Woodley And I would love to see any one of those guys fight for the title either one of them I mean, it's not like I'm not a fan of Tyron Woodley. I think Tyron Woodley's fucking badass He's he might be one of the scariest guys him and Hector Lundberg

He's like a fucking... Superhero. He's like a black He-Man figure. He's a superhero. That's what he looks like. And he's also... He's huge. He's fucking good too, man.

His ability to close the distance. He might have the fastest lead right of anybody in the UFC. He's an athletic freak, man. That fight that he had with Condit, that first round, he caught Condit right off the bat with two lead right hands.

Just... And you could see Condit was like, God, he got tagged. He was like, God damn. That's an athletic freak. Total different level. And, you know, he got upset because I kept talking about how big he is, about how when you're big and muscular like that, it slows guys down. No, because a lot of times that, do you ever, do you let that get to you?

No, no, no, no. I can't. i'm all totally respectful and it's gotta be it's gotta be hard whenever you're in a position when you're gonna state your opinion on anything someone's gonna obviously be upset yeah but in that situation it is a situation because you look at him and god damn if it's not a negative if there's no negative aspect to being that big and that powerful why isn't everybody that big and that powerful yeah because there's a point of diminishing returns But the point is

When is it? Because he's also so fucking effective With all that speed and power It's like, if he can't get you out Is it a hindrance In the third, fourth, and fifth rounds? We don't know about all that He says he's got good endurance, and I think that's what he

was saying, right? Yeah. Well, the only time he's been stopped, he got stopped by Marquardt for the Strikeforce welterweight title. Marquardt stopped him. Wait, who beat Marquardt? Marquardt got fucked up by Hector. He did get fucked up by Hector.

Hector ran over him. That's right. I'm actually confused. That's funny. Hector's a motherfucker, man. Yeah, no, no. He's a motherfucker. And Marquardt also- Well, I mean, that last actually confused. Yeah, Hector's a motherfucker, man. Yeah, I know. He's a motherfucker. And Marquardt also.

That last fight, you could see that he's a fucking powerhouse. I think Marquardt might have turned a corner as far as the amount of punishment he's taken in his career. Yeah. Fought a lot of fights at 185. That's another big 170, man. Yeah. I thought he was a big 185, man. Well, he was solid at 185, but apparently he didn't cut any weight.

No. He just would weigh in really close to 185 and then fight like that. But he fought very effectively at 185. He knocked out Damian Maia with one punch at 185. He was a beast. Wilson Gouveia. Stop Wilson Gouveia. Yeah.

Damian Maia in that last fight, his punches were flying to their home, but he didn't believe in them, I don't think. It looks like, because you know where he wanted to fight. Everybody knows where he wanted to fight. And first of all, you're not going to find a bigger Damian Maia. And first of all, what a sweetheart of a guy, man. Great guy. What a great fucking guy.

And I love his, like I said before, his fight with Jake Shields. I could watch that all day long and learn from it. But, man, people could say that you think that, you know, what went wrong with that fight. I think it's got to be the sparring. I mean, I would like to ask. I mean, maybe ask him if he's getting to see how he's sparring. But his punches weren't like he doesn't know how to throw a punch.

Shit was landed. But he was throwing with the sole intention of just, you know it's a distraction. You know, I'm just doing this to do this. And when you have that type of just, you know it's a distraction. You know, I'm just doing this to do this. And when you have that type of game and the other guy doesn't respect it for shit, one of two things is going to happen. Well, one of the things that's going to happen is what happens is when you get fucking tired, that shit's not getting any easier.

And every time you do that, your fucking energy bar in the video game is going a little lower, a little lower, and it starts to look ugly. You know what I mean? And that shit, the best thing for a guy, if you get in a grueling fight, that'll give the other guy more endurance when you see the other guy getting fucking shot. You know what I mean? But if he would have just

believed in those punches, I think he could have, he was landing some decent shots. I gotta see it again. I remember there was one or two where I'm like, if he commits to this, he could fucking hurt him. And then that'll make the takedown easier. I think Rory started kicking him in the body. That was one of the big parts. Yeah, I got to, again.

Rory's a good kicker. Yeah. And then Rory started lighting him up in the third. Yeah. The third, he was moving underwater, and I think it was from getting hit in the body. In that second round, I believe he was, or maybe it was the first time he was, no, the second round, he was landing a few of those shots. Yeah.

But I think you need to have, it's not even a one-trick pony, because he's a well-rounded guy. He's fought before standing. You need to have, it's not even a one trick pony because he's a well-rounded guy. He's fought before standing. But, you know, you need to be not just well-rounded. You need to be able to fucking do damage. When you see a guy like that. You got to give somebody the respect.

You got to have the respect. When you see a guy like that that's a specialist, like a Damien Maia that tries to get guys down on the ground. And you think about what kind of a jiu-jitsu pedigree you had when you started into MMA. Do you see a guy like that and go this is one way of doing it like one way of doing it is to not really try to strike with guys at all just try to fucking close that distance get them down to the ground jiu-jitsu them and if you have to strike strike but put almost all your effort into trying to close in that distance and get a guy to the ground you didn't do that you knocked a lot of guys out it depends on the guy guy. And as you get older, that's a lot more exhausting.

Now, how about I went to St. Pierre? Tell me what's going to happen. There's a reason why I was that underdog with St. Pierre because I had that philosophy. Not much different than what we're talking about with Damien. And what would happen if I would have fought him like that? When we looked at that fight with me and St. Pierre, the first one, and we looked at it, me and Longo, and me and Henzo spoke about it also.

Henzo knew what was up. And, you know, jiu-jitsu's in his blood, just like mine. But, hey, man, Frank Trigg, fucking Matt Hughes, Sean Shirk. Fuck, man. All these guys are better wrestlers than me. And they weren't getting them down. You know what I mean? So what am I going to do?

I love jiu-jitsu. Yeah, I i'm carrying that flag it's always in my blood if i go out here and try to put him down uh i'm gonna fucking most likely get fucking exhausted and now you've seen what he's done to some guy standing up that's gonna be a long shitty night you know what i mean so i knew i knew from sparring sessions that I did possess even before I ever went into the jiu-jitsu philosophy I fought in a tough man contest when I was 18 years old Mr. T was the referee

I swear to God it was at the plate is there a video of that? I have video it was on Entertainment Tonight they show a clip of me with a mohawk that's hilarious

that's where I busted my jaw three guys I fought all heavyweight they um 175 and up I had my clothes on and I was I like, I was around that weight, around 175 and up. So I fought three guys. I knocked out two guys, man.

The second guy, dude, how about that tough man experience was the worst head trauma than all my fights combined. How about that? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Wow. I had a concussion like you wouldn't believe. I never... Three fights. My jaw, to this day, you want to get grossed out?

Oh! In case you didn't hear it at home, kids. Oh, my God. Now, that's nothing with my tongue. That's... My jaw. That's from the tough man? I fought one guy, and he was a...

It's funny because they they put the two smallest guys together so they put me versus this guy he's fucking scarred for life now

it was me versus this they they they announced me as a weightlifting pizza boy from Long Island

because I used to deliver pizzas and my buddy at the time Jim McCluskey he was a professional boxer me and him we got into a ton

of street fights together. But I never sported in my life, but I used to fight a lot. He used to go, look, stand like this. You're less of a target. That was it. That was my lesson. So I went in there. I didn't know what the fuck to expect.

No headgear. Just these big gloves on. That guy who run it, whatever his name was. 16-ounce gloves? Yeah, I believe. I don't know. I guess so. But they put me

in versus this platoon leader from Desert Storm and this guy. He's from Long Island too. I didn't know. And I ended up, I fucking drilled him. So I fucking hammered him

and they stopped it right away. That clip, I can get, it was on, I got it on tape. I can get it to you if you want to see it.

It's funny. Because they showed it on Entertainment Tonight. I'm like, oh, that think, if you ever want to see it. It's funny. But they showed it on Entertainment Tonight. I'm like, oh, that's great. Mary Hart, whoever it is, making a face. But Mr. T was the referee. I thought it was amazing. Making a face about you. Yeah.

And then the second guy I fought was this tough Irish guy from Jersey. I have no clue what this fucking guy was. But it was bad. I even got him out of there illegally because I got him on all fours. And it was one of those where we were beating the shit out of each other. Just the, what you see, a tough man contest, just rah. And then fucking, I got him on all fours. And I would never condone this.

I don't do this. But I was a street fighter, man. I never sparred. Fuck, they threw me in the Thunderdome in this fucking thing. So I fucking hit him like in the back of the head. It wasn't cool. But I had a concussion at that point. I would never do that as a professional.

So you were already concussed. I was a kid. I was 18 years old. I don't fucking know. So you were already concussed. Then you had to fight one more time after that. Not only did I have to fight, I had to fight less than 10 minutes after. And I go, shit, man.

And then I fucking, I went in the last one. I took a beating. And I remember after that, I was fucked up for a little bit. We out of time? Five minutes. Oh, man. How long was that? Three hours. That was not three hours. Three hours. What was it? for a little bit. We out of time? Five minutes. How long was that? Three hours.

That was not three hours. Three hours. What was it, dude? Yeah, three hours. Dude, know what the bad news is? I think I'm coming in next week, man. I had a fucking great time. Oh, dude.

I'm going to come back again, man, for sure. Anytime you're in town, you let me know, and we'll fucking open this bitch up in the middle of the night. Nah, dude. Three hours, man. Just bullshit. It was fun. We could do another three hours more easily. I know I like to talk, but let me tell you something.

I told you when I saw you before because I'm a big Kevin Smith fan. Dude, I'm really happy with all the success of this thing. This thing really took the world by storm. No? This blew up on you, man. No, listen to me. I'm saying that this thing fucking blew up because i told guys i'm coming to la and i had to do a few things out here and then my when they find out i'm

fucking doing oh get the fuck out of here they wouldn't believe it you're gonna be on rogan's podcast i love that fucking thing you'd be i'm just letting you know that it's you're reaching a lot of people man that's a big thing and when kevin smith was here i you up you think you a production got upgraded well that was just my office yeah my office at home but it was just too weird having all these strange people no i was about to say when you had me out of here i'm like dude am i going to his fucking house i don't know where i'm going man yeah this is much easier much easier it's more fun and i like setting up like a clubhouse up here i got a police table now i got an archery range you got a fucking

werewolf i fucking scared the shit out of there got an archery range. You got a fucking werewolf. I fucking scared the shit out of you. There's an archery range from the door. Do you really? Yeah, from the door to the back is a straight shot. You got a bow and arrow in this? Yeah. I'm going to fucking shoot that thing. No, it's not in here right now. The targets are in here. My bow is at the bow rack in Oregon right now getting tuned up.

That's fucking badass. That was a cool Robin Hood photo that you posted the other day where it was an arrow in the back of an arrow. Yeah, I shot an arrow through an arrow. Did you really? Accidentally. It's not like you're doing that on every

fucking try. It wasn't like I shot one and then I said, I'm going to do this now. I'm going to shoot now. It's just... Legolas. I shot like 50 arrows

and one of them fucked up one of the other ones. That's all it was. Oh, man. It was total dumb luck. Well, anyway, man, listen. The show blew up, man, and I'm happy for you.

I told you that in Vegas when I saw you. Thanks, man. Listen, we got to do... This is only episode one. This is part one. Episode one of the Matt Serra Project. I think happy for you. I told you that in Vegas when I saw you. Thanks, man. Listen, this is only episode one. This is part one. Episode one of the Matt Serra Project. I think we went all over the place, but I think I had a fucking great time.

Listen, man, you're a great guy. I've enjoyed being your friend from the moment you picked us up at the airport or at the train station and took us to your gym and gave us hospitality. You're an awesome guy, man. You're an awesome guy. You're a great instructor. You're a great fighter. And it's just awesome to call you a friend. Man, thank you so guy, man. You're an awesome guy. You're a great instructor. You're a great fighter. And it's just awesome to call you a friend.

Man, thank you so much, man. That's fucking powerful. Thank you. Don't get me teary on here, Oprah. Come on. You know I love you, buddy. And listen, everybody, follow Matt on Twitter. It's Matt Serra UFC on Twitter.

And if you are in Long Island and you want to learn some jiu-jitsu, this is the motherfucker. You go to Matt Serra. Where's your academy? I got one in Levittown. I have one in Huntington. I have a couple of affiliates, which I'm happy about. It's Myrtle Beach, my buddy Frankie Patches, Persian Knicks over in Bayside, Queens.

After Chris Weidman's fight, you've got to come in again. We'll talk some more. For sure, man. We'll do this again. For sure. Because that's Vegas, right?? SarahBJJ.com. Yeah, go there. Go there. Go there. Thanks for having me, guys. How many different schools do you have now? I have two

of my main schools in Philly. It's just go to my website and they can see everything. So SarahBJJ.com all over Long Island. That's me, brother. And I'm telling you, you can't get a better instructor. Thanks so much, man. Thank you so much. Thanks to our sponsors. Thanks to Audible.com. Go to Audible.com forward slash Joe and get one free audio book and 30 free days of Audible service.

Thanks also to Onnit.com. Go to O-N-N-I-T. Use the code word Rogan. Save 10% off any and all supplements. We'll be back on Thursday, Thursday late afternoon with the one and only Shane Smith from Vice.com. That's this Thursday. So until then, go fuck yourself. All right, sweetie. Big kisses. Mwah, until then, go fuck yourself. All right, sweetie.

Big kisses. Mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah.