The Joe Rogan Experience - #532 - Shooter Jennings

Episode Date: August 6, 2014

Shooter Jennings is a musician, radio host, record label president, and is also the son of country music legend Waylon Jennings.

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night! All day! Alright, Shooter Jennings, first of all, thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it. It's cool as fuck. It's cool as fuck having you in here. I love hearing about a guy online,

listening to the music and go, oh shit, I got a new guy I'm into. So I've been tweeting about your shit over the last couple of months. I'm a huge fan. I love all of the, did you say HeroFant? Is that what you call it? HeroFant, yeah. HeroFant.

I love that stuff. I love that Southern Comfort song. It's one of my favorites, man. I listen to that one all the time. Yeah, you of my favorites man or something tweeting about that dude that's see i grew up the house i grew up in was named southern comfort real quick while we're on the audible thing by the way i want i just want to say i'm huge audiobook fan i will tell you a a hilariously awesome and creepy experience is i highly recommend if anyone has like an hour and they're, they're your buddy's thing and they've listened to that book, get Dianetics,

the audit. I'm serious, man. It's so creepy. It's like being a fucking Philip K. Dick movie. It's like being in total recall or something. Really?

Oh man. The way the guy who reads it, the whole thing, like the whole package is so cool, man. You're like, Oh, you know,

the read the book commercials. Like my whole life, I had always heard that shit. And I was like, I'm going to get the audio book of whole life i had always heard that shit and i was like i'm gonna get the audiobook of dianetics i bet that shit's whack and highly recommended just for wackiness for wackiness but by the end of it you're like that's what's fucked up about it it's like the the concept of what because i guess dianetics like i'm i'm kind of obsessed with scientology because it's so fucking retarded in one way, in one sense to me, but in the other sense, like, because it's so serious and all the craziness you hear about. So I've, like, read, I've, like, really looked into it. L. Ron Hubbard.

And you know about Excalibur? Do you know about that? What is Excalibur? Okay. He wrote a book called Excalibur. Supposedly, the big rumor is is that this book there was like the foreshadowing for Scientology and uh and that that like he tried to get it published and like three or four people that read it committed suicide so he like locked it in a vault and

there's a copy of it and no one ever knows where that is but that was like where Scientology was born from so like I'm so fascinated by it so like Dianetics was his new book like that he wrote he's like wait I've got it figured out like it's it's more like this and and kind of like so Dianetics was kind of like the way of introducing what was in the Excalibur book to like the the mass population it's pretty fascinating that sounds like one of those uh in the mouth of madness type things like the john carpenter book where people the movie where the guy wrote a book and a bunch of people were killing themselves and going crazy and murdering people sam neill yes neil was in it right yeah yeah that was exactly that's what the whole rumor about is and if you've seen the master uh with uh philip seymour hoffman when he played

like the l ron hubbard guy he had a book in that. It was called The Sword or something instead of Excalibur. But yeah, supposedly he showed it to a bunch of people, and they went crazy. And apparently what the book is about, and I don't mean to derail our entire conversation in this direction. Don't worry. There's no derailing. It's just a conversation.

This is the kind of shit I like to talk about. Me too, man. Yeah. Supposedly, what the whole concept was was about the mob mentality and breaking that apart. So no matter what, everyone is really always alone, no matter if they're in a group. But when they're in a group, they act a certain way that's different. So supposedly, there's a guy being hung. There's a scene in it where there's a guy being hung. And then there's like there's there's supposedly there's a guy being hung there's a scene in it where there's a guy being hung and then there's the mob that wants

him hung and it goes and like analyzes like the people in the mob and analyzes the executioner analyzes the guy who's getting hung like i don't know you know i'm very fascinated with that that kind of like psychology and it's what that's why the whole you know uh scientology thing to me is so fascinating because i'm like how do these people they pay money to join this fucking club that's like you know real it's real like aa and all that stuff in the sense that it's like you know your new friends and your old friends and they have like they assign people to you and then eventually you kind of weed out all those other people but the whole concept of it is is taking the whole concept of dianetics is taking like when you're a little kid and a dog bites you and then for the rest of your life you're scared of dogs like the whole concept

behind dianetics is that they can take the memory what they call a reactive memory which is like the dog thing and they can turn it into a like a regular memory so that you won't like get rid get rid of all of those kind of little things that fucked you up through life that's what the concept of clear is yeah and so that so that when when you those things become you're not reactive anymore so if like you you hate your dad and then for that reason you like react certain way to people your whole life like you can you can get that out of there so you'll never like act uncalm. You know what I mean?

Yeah. But then you have to pay them a lot of money to have an auditor to go through your life and figure all that shit out for you. That's where they make all their cash. Well, you give them a certain percentage of your income. Right, right. It's just like tithing, like tithing in a regular church.

I think you give them 10%, especially at the highest levels. Really? Yeah. See, I didn't even know that. Yeah. Tithing is a big one that's a big one with religions that's the way they get you right well i knew that i knew that with the other ones but i didn't know that there was a there was like a tithing process i i didn't i know that they do a lot of things like i used to rehearse i've been here i've been living here 15 years and my old band we used to rehearse on hollywood vine in this place and there was a daycare next door

and someone told us hollywood and vine yeah right yeah that's crazy right it was like do you remember well you know it's right across the street from the l ron hubbard exhibit and all that like on ivor like on that yeah okay and uh and somebody's like yeah that's a scientology daycare they're like real hush hush about it but it's it's scientology so like you know like a lot of that shit going down. I'm probably going to get murdered tonight. No, you'll be fine. Scientology has become such a joke over the last few years.

If this was 20 years ago, you'd have an issue, but the Internet has sort of exposed them in a way that's made them seem so preposterous. Like, seriously preposterous. It's funny, though. Well, they have that big uh psychiatry kills thing too that big exhibit is that on sunset too or is it where the fuck is that hey is that what that is yeah that's exactly what that is it's it's on is it on sunset or hollywood because there's a

mac store that i buy hard drives and i saw that across the street i didn't know that was a i didn't know it was Scientology wow got to go in there and check that out. Yeah. Because they don't believe in that and they don't believe in a lot of medicines. But in certain ways, like I kind of see their point in certain ways. Like, I mean, I've been – I've talked to psychologists before in my life. I mean, I went to one for, like, relationship counseling. And, of course, like it becomes like they want to talk about you.

And I'm like I'm the kind of guy who's like I don't – whatever problems and issues i've had in my life i work through them like i've never needed i've never seen the need to really kind of i don't know i'm like an angry guy there's not shit i'm angry at from when i was little i've kind of dealt with all that you know what i mean so sometimes when i see scientific like tom cruise being like screw all that stuff i'm like yeah tom cruise is like that's cool even though you're weird you know but you invited him to your show yesterday to me we're records i saw that online it's like you you too come on down come on down tom cruise i want to talk to you about your fucking magic yeah that was i was like joe rogan and i was real serious about the other three you and bill Billy Ray Cyrus and Marilyn Manson.

It's like, come on down. But Tom Cruise, that would have been odd if he showed up. It would have been awesome. And he didn't talk to you. Stop being so glib. Have you seen the guy on, and I'm supposed to not like this guy because he did diss my best friend and manager, which is not cool. But besides that, previous to that, before it got sticky, there's a guy on named not tom cruise do you know this guy no dude he's hilarious he he just talks about he's like blowing rails with britney spears all day long and driving down like he's just talking about

being uncooked out of his face and like how he's like scientology rules and he's like looking for bitches and like hanging out with you know travolta and doing rails and shit. He keeps graduating. I think there's stance against psychiatry. They've got some good points, but it's like all things. Probably it's not a complete black and white issue. It's not like psychiatric drugs are all bad or that antidepressants are all bad because I personally know people

that were close to suicide. Yes. Oh, yeah, I agree. I agree with that, too. I think that that stuff is good. It can be good. depressants are all bad because i personally know people that were like close to suicide yes oh yeah i agree i agree with that too i think that that stuff is good it can be good can be but it can also be a crutch you know in that way and i think a lot of times man here's the here's the thing i have like one of my dearest friends guy worked for me i'm not trying to be a downer with this but his brother this guy farron miller who actually co-wrote one of the songs on this george record and dude i walked out of my house without my vinyls. I have a stack of vinyls for you.

So this means we have to hang out. Oh, we'll hang out, man. I'd be happy to. But Farron Miller co-wrote Living in a Minor Key, which is on the George record. And Farron worked for me for nine years, still does, but he's in a band now and he's doing awesome. His brother was on those those medicines and and stopped hard like cold turkey and killed himself whoa because it went just crazy you know i mean so like you have to like that you have to really really be responsible with the psych like those

kind of drugs that change your mental you know and sometimes like you said sometimes it does wonders for people and it changes their life and And then sometimes it can be really damaging. So, you know, you have to be careful. But at the same time, Scientology, they're like no drug stance. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't think that's responsible either. I think there's a reason why they've come up with a lot of these drugs. And some people have benefited tremendously.

There's people that just have natural chemical imbalances in their brain. And the idea that someone who doesn't know how your brain works can say, you know, oh, you don't need it because I don't need it. You don't need it because Mike doesn't need it. Tom Cruise doesn't need it. So, you know, John, fuck over here. He doesn't need it either. That's crazy.

Some people benefit from them tremendously. And sometimes you can use those things as a bridge. Like you've got really tough times in your life, you can can use those things as a bridge like you got really tough times in your life you can use these psychiatric drugs as a bridge and then get to a healthy place and then wean yourself off like get your life in order i've read stuff about people doing that too i don't necessarily think they're all bad but i think that i agree i don't think there's a lot of people that don't take care of themselves and then just they get depressed and just take a pill and then now they're better.

Well, maybe not. Maybe you would have been better off if you started eating better and maybe stopped drinking as much and doing a little bit of exercise every now and then and probably you'd feel better. Yeah. It would help. You know. So I and also the Scientology thing like we see a guy like Tom Cruise who is undeniably

wacky but also undeniably successful the guy is uh always positive like he does these interviews he's got a lot of great energy and it's like man there's a benefit to that there's definitely something to that and there's definitely something to that and especially when you get a guy who's in that much i mean that much power and has that has had that much success you know and has that much influence like i mean you know either they're like i know that they treat him like like he's the he's the like you know l ron harper jr or something so i'm sure he he's loving that side of it but the reality is is like he for him to have stuck by it i mean there's got to be something to i mean like i said that if you the audiobook of dianetics as funny as that is it is it is so fascinating because it

explains why he's always in a fucking good mood all the time it's like he's like i'm really good at this clear thing you know he's like he's really figured it out and he's like really happy all the time and not you know who knows he might be or know, he might just shut the door when the day is done and fucking wail and scream and fucking fish all over the ground flopping around like a fucking animal. I mean, who knows? You know guys like that, right? I have a couple of friends where I'm like, somebody's getting beat somewhere on this guy because they're so nice.

You know somewhere he's going home fucking punching somebody's lights out. Well, there's people that you can tell they're holding back. Yeah. And you can tell, yeah, okay, all right, fine. And you tell, as soon as this guy gets away, he's going to fucking do something crazy. There's some people that are actually calm, and then there's some people you can tell they're keeping it together, but there's a monster inside them just raging at the cage and trying to fucking get out.

Yeah, that's uncomfortable when you you like you know if you try to explain to someone you're like well listen everything he said was good he uh he used all the right words he was very but i knew this motherfucker was hating it inside inside and they'd be like oh that's just your perception sir i mean you can't prove that. No, you can't, but everybody knows that one dude that's like that. Yeah, of course, man. It's like,

yeah, it's so funny. It's true though. My next door neighbor, my old house was a Scientologist. He's a nice guy. Super nice guy. Why,

why be a Scientologist when you're just some guy? Like, that's what I want to know. Cause they worship actors and they worship that. So why? I think they worship the actors and, uh, they worship artists because that influences others to become scientologists i think that's the strategy you know that's right i mean yeah and they and they do this but you know they kind of deify like

like anyone who does any kind of art yeah as kind of a superior being well in a way like listen okay i'm a shooter jennings fan if uh if i found out that shooter jennings is really into scientology i go oh well that guy's cool man man the fuck is up with this and then you start reading into it and you go oh i see so it keeps him positive and that keeps putting out badass music okay okay maybe i'll fucking try this and that's all you need like scientology man look tom cruise is a bad motherfucker, okay? Tom Cruise doesn't take any drugs. Tom Cruise drinks water every day.

Tom Cruise runs marathons. Tom Cruise is a fucking beast. I want to be like Tom Cruise. And next thing you know, you're fucking holding on to these Campbell soup cans that are attached with little wires. And they're auditing you. Yes. Have you ever done that? No.

I did it. Yeah, I did it. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'll do it with you. I would love to do it. I'll do it in a heartbeat. I don't know if they would take me in now.

I mean, you'd have to have someone who doesn't know who you are. Right, right. I definitely found a dude who didn't know who I am. The guy was in his late 50s. Did you just walk in? It was in San Diego. I was down there filming for this TV show that I was doing on CBS called Game Show in My Head, where we put these little earpieces in someone so I could talk to them. And then I gave them tasks that they had to go do.

They had to sell water to people that came out of a hose. They had to do a bunch of wacky shit. They had to play a fake news reporter and convince people to tell them they had been abducted by aliens and all this different wacky shit. But while we were there, we were filming, they had this Dianetics set up, because it was in this outside public place where a lot of foot traffic was. So they had the Dianetics set up, and they had their E-Meter, or whatever they called it. Is that what they call it?

And it's like two cans. It looks like two things that look like a Campbell's soup can that you took the wrapper off, and it's connected's like two cans it looks like two like things that you look like a campbell soup can that you took the wrapper off and it's connected with these strings and so literally yeah campbell soup can with the yarn yeah just hold on to this and so i did it and the guy wasn't very compelling he wasn't that good at it but uh i i got to ask him all sorts of questions and read into it and they gave me some brochures or something like that, tried to get me to go down there. When they did the auditing, though, I mean, how far did they...

I'm sure because they're trying to convince someone to come back that they're not going to start delving into real personal shit, but I'm sure, like, what do you do? What kind of questions do they ask? I don't remember because it was very unremarkable. I remember I was baked, which is part of the problem, which is why I was willing to do it in the first place because otherwise I would have probably just hovered

and watched other people do it. But actually, you know, it was dumb questions, like dumb questions about your childhood. Are you happy with your career? Are you happy in your relationship? And they just get a reading on you, allegedly, from this non-scientific measuring know measuring instrument it's just so wacky that's so wacky so i see we could spend the whole thing talking about this because

it's so it's one of those things where like there's a bunch of people in on a joke you know and you're like just wanting someone to say okay we're just fucking with you it's fine but no one does you know what i mean well those belief systems the thing about having those belief systems is that they're very empowering for people who believe in them like if you if you look at it and go wait a minute wait a minute fucking planet xenu really yeah you know like what's insane like i'm reading about uh this after you brought up x caliber while you're talking about it i pulled up that website that mock scientology Xenu dotnet oh I've never been there but this is my favorite site but they have everything they have they have the entire Scientology like like

what everything about what they believe all of the operating things manual I grabbed a WikiLeaks operating date the operating fainting's manual like level three which is apparently where i guess tom cruise is like four or five or six or something but he was three a couple years like they have different manuals you know so he was three a couple years ago and now he's four five or six i don't know where he's at i haven't been keeping up with his level what rank he's at but i know he's ranked up because they've like given him they made up some new award for him and did you ever see that video that leaked yeah he's like using all this stuff that was, they made up some new award for him. Did you ever see that video that leaked?

Yes. Where he's using all this stuff? That was like they made up this thing they'd never had before. It was like Guardian of the Galaxy award. And they gave it to him. And he's saying all that shit that made no sense and using all their words and stuff. And that leaked to the internet and people putting music to it and shit. It's gorgeous.

Yeah, it's so good. It's a work of art. It is. It is, man. and people putting music to it and shit gorgeous yeah it's so good it's a work of art it is it is man i mean almost it is almost like like something that you would you'd see from some artist who's doing some like fucking piece yeah you know where he's gonna man that'd be so brilliant if like he just all of a sudden flipped and told everybody yeah i've been just listen it helps my acting if i could pretend to really be into scientology for this long it's like the dumb and dumber me the new one coming out have you seen the preview for no no i haven't oh my

god it's genius but there's like a there's like a whole thing where jim carrey characters care carrie's character is like in a insane asylum over this over that chick the mary samsonite as they call him from the first one and then it turns out he was like joking like for like 20 years and yet lloyd he's like lloyd you mean to tell me that you've been you've been faking for 20 years all for a gag? And he's like, yep. It'd be amazing if he did that. That's the only way a good politician would work. The only way that you could have a president in this country that was actually going to care about the people is they'd have to lie their way from the beginning to the moment they get in office and they didn't have to flip and then you would have to also have a cabinet

that was in on the lie like you'd have to have everybody with you that was working with you like okay we're just fucking around we're gonna get in there and we're gonna just change see that would never you'd never be able to get it you'd never be able to trust another person yeah i think the system is so far rigged though that it doesn't matter it's oh yeah yeah obviously because the same people are like just running it i mean it's it's like you know it's like whoever's who you know when they had when windows 95 had the fucking start me up and the rolling stones and now like whatever their commercials are like now it's the same fucking company it just looks different everything you know right yeah i think it's silly when people are like i think voting is silly this is this is my

whole thing with that because it's like what is the fucking difference like first of all there's people who are like so i mean i i may be going against a lot of people's opinions of this but but like people who are so gung- ho on these certain politicians and lobbying for this person and they're like so excited that Obama is going to like fucking change everything. And it's such I mean, yeah, it's awesome. And like our first black president, that's awesome. But otherwise, like it's the same fucking game, same shit over and over. So I look at people who are like really gung ho about one guy. I'm like, are you fucking crazy?

Like, yeah. Are you who you're buying this? I mean, I nobody's bought anything for so i mean like you know like bill clinton goes on you know arsenio hall like that changed like did you watch that 90s thing that has been on national geographic recently there's a there's a series called the 90s and it's like six hours the the whole thing and i sat and watched it one day and it's awesome but it it really reminds you how much shit you weren't paying attention to in the 90s and how rigged it all was like everything like osama bin laden was on like they did an interview with him in like 98 or 96 when was oj

94 yeah it was right around there. Somewhere around there, right? 94? If it was O.J. I don't remember if it was O.J. or Monica Lewinsky, but one of those things was going on at the moment. And 400,000 people watched this interview with Osama Bin Laden. He's like, he says on the interview, he's like, we're going to fuck you and you're going to watch it on TV

and you're going to be crying when it happens. And 400 people watched it and nobody cared. And at the exact moment they were airing it is when like Monica Lewinsky or OJ was like in the prime and everyone's like looking over here while like this guy over here. And Osama is just as fucking bullshitty as fucking the presidents and everything like, like, yeah, right. Like Osama did not fly that plane. I mean, there are some people that did that shit and there are people involved and we will never know the truth about any of it. So, I mean, no matter how hard we dig, you know what

I mean? So it's like, to me, it all seems so silly when people get so riled up, like they, they believe they have to believe something. It's like Satanism. You have to believe in God to be a Satanist. That seems so stupid to me. Like you have to be Christian. If you want to be in this church of Satan, you have to be a Christianian first because then you have to believe that whole thing to believe that there is a satan to join the church of satan that's so silly is that true yeah well i mean i thought though that satanism like really in its finest form was really just about hedonism well that's true but like experiencing pleasure but the concept of like of likes of see i mean there's like the crowley the crowley church and there's like the kind of like the levee church which is what you're kind of talking about which is just

essentially like like do anything you hedonism right essentially yes but but like the writings and the teachings and the in the things that where they reference satan as you know and they all those kind of like rituals and shit are silly because it's like you've got to be in the frame of reference of Christianity and the Bible and all that. You know what I mean? If it was really scary, it'd be something you've never heard of and some creature you've never heard of

and you'd be terrified. It's not the same bad guy from the Bible. We're just going to make it into a thing. That's why it all seems so silly. You've got to believe in magic and fairy tales and shit to make it all happen. Well, you kind of do have to believe in magic and fairy tales if you believe a guy like Obama is going to fix the country. Yes.

That's what I'm saying. The system is so beyond rigged. And it's so transparently rigged. Yes. You have to end. To fix the system, you have to end banking. You have to end the Federal Reserve. You have to get the corporations out of control of the media and everything.

I mean. And representative government. Yes. You'd have to end the influence of representative control of the media and everything i mean and representative government you'd have to get in the influence of representative government by special interest groups and lobbyists yeah you'd have to completely revamp everything it's a system that's just completely broken like there's nothing working about it it's so there's so many like fucked up pieces of it that as it trickles down from the top to the bottom, it's just... You know how when water goes through, when you see springs, like natural springs that come out, that water's going through all this rock and all this ground, and in doing so,

it filters everything out, so the water comes out really pure and delicious to drink. Yeah. But it could start out really you know, really fucked up. And then it all gets... Well, the opposite is true with politics. Like, you could have a great idea, and you could have someone... By the time it... Yeah.

Yes. You'd have someone who has great intentions, but by the time they get through the filter of corporations and special interest groups and lobbyists and this and that and... Yeah, man. It comes out empty. Yes. Like there's nothing left. It's always going to do that because they want it to be that way.

To me, like you said, it's so fucked up, and it really is. It's really because of that 99%ers, 1%ers thing. I mean, because you just have these – the corporations have too much control, and they're like the net neutrality thing they're trying to to cut that out and that's like they're trying they're literally giving all the power to like these you know viacom and shit like that not only that viacom is a the any time you look at a corporation as an individual which is what they keep trying to do they're doing that as far as their ability to donate to political uh campaigns they're doing it as far as like their responsibilities

like they're they look at they're trying to look at corporations as if these entities should be given rights like an individual given rights like a human being but that's that's crazy because in doing so what you're also doing when you have a corporation is you dissolve the responsibility of each individual for the actions of the group. Right. If you're going to give corporations the responsibilities or if you're going to give corporations the rights of an individual, you should also be able to charge every individual in the corporation as if they were guilty for anything that the corporation is in

trouble for right and if you did that then it would change the actions entirely of the corporation because right now like say if you you're part of a corporation this corporation likes to go to guatemala and build cell phones and in the meantime you fucking shoot rabbits and fucking poison the wells and you know who knows what kind of horrible anti-human shit they're doing in these third world countries and pollution and genocide. And there's a group of people that doesn't want them to clear cut. So they fucking gun these people down.

Then you find out about it all later. And everyone involved in the corporation should be responsible for that. And that's the only way you would ever stop any of that shit from going on. If you looked at BP, perfect example, the oil spill in the Gulf, which just fucked up so many people's lives.

I mean, there's so many people that don't have a voice. You're not hearing from the fishermen. You're not hearing from the people that had to clean that shit up. You're not hearing from the people that lived in the towns close to the water that got really sick because of the dispersants. There's so many individuals. If everyone in BP was prosecuted as fully responsible for the actions of BP, I mean, man, shit could get crazy. Yeah. Like literally every single executive, every single – everybody that's a part of a corporation.

They got raises. Well, it's subsidized. That's what's even crazier. Oil is subsidized. Every single where everybody I got some part of a corporate that you think of raises subsidized that's what's even crazier oil is subsidized, you know the the amount of fuckery that's involved when you get heavy-duty money involved in in Corporations and and then those corporations have influence on politics and they have influence on the way laws are formed and structured the way our Society functions. It's just it society functions. It's madness. It's madness. And I don't know what the solution is,

but until you figure out a way to not have these big groups of people that have this diffusion of responsibility, because if you're, you know, Shooter Jennings is a part of BP, and BP does something fucked up, and you're like, man, man that's fucked up i can't believe my company did that but oh well i got a raise i didn't do anything you can sleep tight knowing that you didn't do anything personally but you're a part of a machine that did something really if i was held accountable for that i'd be so pissed i'd be like you know like it'd be beyond that i mean exactly that's that's fascinating that's fascinating point i mean right that all these companies the courts are in the favor of

the corporations usually and and it's like the like i can't believe what what three companies own 80 of all television or something something ridiculous like that yeah and in the 80s it was like 60 companies and now it's three yeah and it's like just and yeah. And in the 80s, it was like 60 companies. And now it's three. Yeah. And it's like just, and you just look at the way that the world is, the way that we react to the media, the way we react to this shit. Like, you know, I don't know. It's amazing. It did feel like when we were younger that like when things like the BP oil spill happened and stuff.

Like I think if that happened now that we wouldn't hear about it. What do you mean? BP oil spill? That just happened. That wasn't think if that happened now that we wouldn't hear about it. What do you mean? BP oil spill? It just happened. That wasn't... How long ago did that happen? BP was just a couple years ago. That was like 10 years ago.

No. Yeah, it was four years ago. It was? Yeah. Fuck, never mind. I don't know what I'm talking about. The big one was the Exxon Valdez. That happened in 1988, right?

That was the first one we heard about. That was a big one. That was a big one that was a big one which is by the way that area is still fucked of course it is 1988 and they killed off a massive amount of salmon and the fisheries about to come out of there man yeah but then there's people like you and i that drive cars and you know need gas and you know you buy an iphone and how's it gonna fucking get to the Apple store? Someone's got to put that bitch in a truck and it's got to drive it over there. There's no other way.

The whole system has just been set up without a whole lot of foresight. It was set up to deal with what's available right now and no one sort of saw the future of how things are going to get ugly and where it could become problems. How fast. How much carbon can you get into the air until it starts fucking with the weather.

It's just so much. And then there's so much momentum also. The thing about politics and the thing about the influence of corporations and special interest groups is that it's sort of been this way for so long that to come in now and try it's almost like there's a train running through your neighborhood and it's just trained like we gotta stop this train do you grab it like how do you do you hold on to it what we need to do is put some stuff on the track what's just gonna run over that stuff well how the fuck do you stop the train well you gotta grab the back and put a lot of weight on it is that gonna work no well that all the things that we're doing to try to like to reform politics like from an individual point of view whether it's

complaining about it online or writing blogs or doing this and it's akin to trying to grab a hold of the back of the train and dig your heels absolutely yeah i mean yes i agree the only way to deal is move to where though iceland or somewhere i don't know i don't mean like move in usa but i mean metaphor i mean kind of like like don't you feel like i mean i feel like the only out of the people that i've kind of read and researched that are kind of like this anti establishment shit it seems to be that if they tell you you know you've got to you've got to do this now you've got to wear a blue shirt every day the only way the only way to to to

fight any of it is just by not doing it you know i mean like just just whatever but at this point in time they they've convinced this entire country and they've convinced the entire world that this is how things work and you have to go along with it yeah like jobs and you know they like the fact they keep they like the fact that everyone is freaking out about money all the time they they squeeze the middle and lower class out of that you know so that they're freaked out all the time that the both parents are having to work all the time the kids are in shitty daycares where the education is terrible and it's like they that's how they keep that in control. You know what I mean?

But most people just walk through life and accept that and just say that's the way it is. And, you know, it's very few people that actually stand up and try and figure something else out. But there's not really a solution, especially that someone like me could give anyone. But at the same time, like, I can sit back and look at it and comment on it. With the Black Ribbons record, that was my getting. It was right when the economy fell in 2009, the very beginning. 2009, and George Bush was missing, and Obama was looking real glorious at the time but nobody was doing anything about the collapse of the economy and then the bank bailouts were happening and it was

just like man this is insane it was like the scariest little point of time you know and and that's kind of where that album came out of and and for me it was really my comment on the whole thing and by having stephen king be the d DJ and do all that shit like like what his character was really what the record was about and it was kind of like keeping hope and and hanging you know small communities and family and and you know those kind of like friendships and things like that that level is the only way that people like unions you know were started because it was like people were like I can't take this shit I can't take this shit. We can't take this shit anymore. And they said like that connection, that level, that's where you can grab the train and you can end, you know, when enough people, it's like that occupy thing,

man, when I was, I was in New York living at the time when the occupy wall street thing happened. And my daughter was going to a school in the financial district. So like when I drop her off at school and I, me and my buddy would walk over to the to the occupied wall street just hang out in the middle of the whole thing you know and it got a bad rap and it had all these different things but those motherfuckers were standing up to the man and the man was like fucking shooting the beanbags at him and shit and you know it was really crazy like they're they had books and the cops were burning the books and shit it was it was like some scene out of Nazi Germany when we walked over. There was pouring rain.

There were people in the trees. Every 10 or 20 minutes, a whole bunch of cops with those fucking guard things would run through the fucking place and knock some guy over. Those shields? Yeah, the big shields. Riot shields? Yeah, like riot shit. Their cops were in riot.

But greatest scene. I think someone filmed it, and I was there for it. I'm sitting in the middle of that thing, that encampment, the Occupy Wall Street thing, with my friend Lincoln. And we turn around, man, and this fucking cop comes running with that fucking shield and just slips because it's raining. And he just eats shit and falls down, man. And it's like three or four of these fucking hippies are like hey you okay man you know even though the rest of them are like fuck you big you know it was pretty funny man this motherfucker just bit ate shit running into

that thing and everybody's just laughing about it that all that occupy stuff to me it signals that this possibility like it wasn't entirely successful. It sort of awakened people to the idea of protesting, you know, that you could protest on a mass scale to get a lot of attention and that people are willing to get involved because a lot of people did get involved. But what it also said to me is if things got real squirrely, like remember when we almost invaded Syria, you know, and then the response was so strong against it

that you don't hear a peep about invading Syria. I mean, when Obama came on television and gave that speech, it was almost like invading Syria is inevitable. And everybody was like, fuck you, man. Fuck you. And then it stopped. There was silence in the news. Like you literally don't hear a peep out of the government

talking about the inevitable invasion of syria it just doesn't exist anymore because the right and the left or his wife or something on television everybody's like oh look over here this thing's happening you know we forgot about it the right and the left were against it and if they had gone forward i think that an action like that and i think they're calculated in that response that like when you have a million people like like a shah saying there was a one of the some one of the dictators i forget which one it was that was ousted because i forget which one it was it was a long time ago but it was because he had said that if there was more than three people that were together, that were protesting together as a group, they would be shot on sight.

I forget which dictator it was. And within two days, three million people were in front of his castle calling for his head. And it was like, oh, shit. Like, when you have a million people in the streets that are calling for your head, the fucking fucking the gig is up and the the real the the numbers when you deal with the the president and the secret service and then the government and the military the actual numbers of those people that you would need to protect against a mob of five million americans that have had enough and then come with rifles and guns and just storm the gates.

Everyone worries. People say, well, what do you do for the Second Amendment? What do you need a gun for? Why do you need a gun? You don't need a gun. That was written back when there was muskets. Let me tell you something. That's the dumbest thing ever.

If the shit hits the fan, if the shit hits the fan like that, and all of a sudden you've got three or four million people that are showing up on the White House lawn, and then they start storming en masse, and they literally call for the president's head and rip him apart on national television. That's not outside the realm of possibility given a few terrible decisions a natural disaster a nuclear bomb goes off somewhere in chicago the fucking shit hits the fan and then next thing you know there's a million people with guns apple buys jesus you know anything can happen any literally anything that's what i got out of occupy wall street i got out like this is this kind of dissent it's manifesting itself in this form right now where there's a bunch of people with fucking drum circles and they're saying enough is enough that was it was too hippie it was that was the one issue was it was too it was too too like kumbaya yeah it was i mean they even though it got rowdy there at the

end it's like it wasn't enough you know what i mean there that's what happens when when liberals go hit like go protest and then there's when the right wing is protest they have a whole different ritual but it's like i feel like when you look at all of that like you said it's it's the power of it man i mean the edward snowden shit we get into that you know you could get into the power of like how that's changed remember everyone was like oh the cloud the cloud is so fucking cool that's gonna do everything and then snowden comes out and they're like shit we don't want our shit on the cloud like i mean they start changing like rebranding the concept of the word of the cloud you know like you go to europe and it's still the cloud the cloud the cloud but here i think everyone started getting a little like

well it doesn't matter if it's the cloud because they're going right into your goddamn email. Yeah, there's no cloud at all. They're going into your hard drive. They're hacking your hard drive and they're going right in there, pulling out all your data, pulling all your credit card information, putting out all your contacts. You know, if you are a person that is involved in some controversial activity, everyone that you call, everyone that you talk to they get monitored now yeah like if you if you start talking crazy shit about the government on this podcast then you make a phone call right if the NSA decides to monitor you they're gonna monitor your buddies they're gonna monitor people you fucking play pool with they're gonna monitor a guy you go

drinking with like everybody gets monitored and you all become suspects you all got mine i got started getting monitored after i went on this show oh before you even decided to go on this show when i was tweeting about you you probably started getting probably immediately you're probably already monitored before that probably probably i wouldn't doubt that it's ridiculous i mean it's like look we're not criminals there's not no one's these these aren't criminals the idea that you're monitoring 99 of the country or whatever the fuck the numbers are what is everybody a criminal and then they're they're monitoring each other yeah like the senate they fucking the nsa was they were spying on the goddamn senate man did you read the thing about the world warcraft with one of the documents you

know that game the world of warcraft yeah it's Yeah, it's like an online role-playing game with millions of players going around the world. And they had NSA agents in there because they were saying that the terrorist groups were meeting in those games. They would go in the game and they'd meet and they had to talk in there. So they said that they had so many NSA agents

in World of Warcraft that they had to assign other NSA agents to watch those NSA agents inside World of Warcraft. I mean, can't you see these motherfuckers sitting there playing like a level 50 wizard? He's like, yeah, man, we're going to bust some fucking terrorists today. Fuck yeah. And kill a dragon. Meanwhile, they're busting other people who are pretending to be terrorists so that they can bust other terrorists. Man, I was like, yes, what a great idea.

I'm going to go in an online game. I wonder how many times there have been undercover sting operations where an undercover drug dealer was selling drugs to an undercover DEA agent posing as a guy to buy drugs. That's a movie. Is it a movie? We should write that. It totally is guy to buy drugs. That's a movie. Is it a movie? We should write that. It totally is a movie. Just write it into a movie. And they wind up killing each other,

and then everyone tries to cover it up, and it becomes some crazy story. I mean, it must have happened before. It has to have happened. Kind of like 21 Jump Street, the end of the movie with the cameo with Johnny Depp. Did you see the new 21 Jump Street? No, no. Oh, it's great. Is it? Yeah. Is it fun? It's a great cameo of Johnny Depp. Did you see the new 21 Jump Street? No, no.

Oh, it's great. Is it? Yeah. Is it fun? It's a great cameo of Johnny Depp, though. Yeah. Just blew that for you, then. Well, I don't think it's a spoiler alert.

I think I'll be okay. The undercover guy blowing it for the other undercover guy kind of thing. It's just when these guys start spying on each other, it's like, does the CIA think that the Senate is a bunch of criminals? Is that what's going on? Or do you just have carte blanche to just spy on people? So you're like, fuck it. Let's spy on these guys.

Let's spy on everybody. I don't trust him. Fuck that guy. Let's spy on him. Let's find out where his dick pictures are hiding in his hard drive. They said they passed those around the office. Yeah, of course they did. And they did it also.

They like spied the people that were in the office. They spied on ex-girlfriends they would find ex-girlfriends that's the smartest thing they probably did you know i mean man you can really i'm going and you know what after that girl i'm gonna join the nsa i'm gonna work my way all the way to the top just so i can fuck her for the rest of her life yeah it's just i when the CIA spies on the Senate, I really think that they should bring everybody involved and lock them up.

Yeah, there you go. I'm just like, you guys, not only did you violate everything that you're supposed to be standing for, you guys are supposed to be looking out for us. The way you're looking out is by spying on the fucking Senate. Looking in, yeah. Do you think that the Senate is bad?

Do you think that they're involved in, are they terrorists? Are they the enemy? Are theyying on the fucking senate looking in do you think that the senate is bad do you think that they're involved in are they terrorists are they the enemy are they working for the fucking russians like what are you doing the fuck are you doing you're wasting money like you should go to jail just for wasting tax dollars just for fraud for pretending that you're here resolving democracy or that you're here protecting and serving you should go to jail just for misrepresenting what your job is yeah you guys are goddamn crooks yeah i mean a bunch of them you know and that's why i love like i i'm on the edward snowden team because it's just like fuck yeah like that's what we were that's the kind of shit you know that like movies were made up like that we wanted we wanted to happen we want some guy to be like yo you're all are getting fucked and I'm gonna I'm

willing to die over this shit and tell you about it you know yeah and before Obama was in office that whole hope and fucking hope and change his website was all about protecting whistleblowers all that shit was removed once all this stuff started going down with Edward Snowden and with Julian Assange. But before that, he was all about protecting whistleblowers who were exposing illegal activity. Guess what? That's exactly what Snowden did. Everything he did is protecting people who are being exposed to dangerous elements of out-of-control government. I mean, that's really what's going on.

I didn't realize that was on the Obama page. I mean, I never went to the Obama page, but at the same time, I never knew that he said that. What a crock of shit. Yeah. Jesus Christ. I mean, they were like, we had to say, hey, Snowden, come back here. We promise we're not going to kill you.

Like, when America has to say that, you know what I mean?'s like fuck we're fucked it's like howard stern says man you know he's like we're like the last you know we we are like the like people to say we shouldn't police the world but the reality is is like 90 of the world are like murdering their own people or like stoning women to death like there's all these other countries like there's not many countries that says hey fucking stop right yeah that is what we want from america is what we hope for but when you look at it and you look at the nsa shit and all that it's like you know it's it's just hard to get all hyped up and excited about it i mean but our world changed so much man i was talking to i was talking to i'm 35 and i was talking to a friend of mine about this about how our my generation it was like our world is so fucked compared to everybody

else's because i mean it's probably just getting worse for the other kids but you know we saw like when we were 14 kurt cobain i was 14 kurt cobain blew his brains out so like by that time like you're just kind of i was just kind of everybody's kind of hopeful and then when that happens that's the first time that's ever happened it was so dark it was so like there was photographs floating around in my high school of it and shit and i remember kind of being like man this is dark but it kind of like threw me i was really into nine inch nails and manson and shit like that and it like threw me into that world even more and you know i everybody loved the dark, loved the dark. And then fucking nine 11 happens when we're like 20, 21.

And it's like, Holy fuck. Like everything changed after that point. Like everyone, everyone is a lot darker. Everyone is like, realizes that, that, yeah, you know, that might just these massive assaults can happen here. You know, there was always kind of like dreamy it's you know it's america thing it's like we always kind of even though there was a lot of corruption with like from nixon to like the the you know the kennedy assassination and shit which was kind of the start

of like like televised or published or uh you know uh broadcast in certain ways newspapers of like death mass death and weird crazy shit like that but you look at uh there was always this kind of hopefulness and i think like after 9-11 and after kind of everything that's going on like people are really like disillusioned to it you know they we don't have that same that same kind of feeling that that was going on in the 80s and 90s i know what you're saying like the perception of what america stands for yeah it used to be that we were noble everywhere else yeah everybody used to say it's the land of the free like there's they still i mean you know you still go to new york and the cab driver guy who's who's by the way only driven for two weeks because he got here two weeks ago

like he'll still tell you like i'm goddamn so happy to be in america of course because you're in new york city and it's beautiful and there is a beauty to that And what we offer the rest of the world and people that are in these fucking terrible countries and they escape and they come here And it's like that that's great, but like yeah in comparison to the Congo. We're awesome. Yeah Comparison the Congo we are awesome, but at the same time. We're also like we were like kids that You know like I think the couple generations before us, it was like the parents stayed together and it was like, great. Like we're the kids. The mom shot the dad and got away with it.

And we're like, all right. You know what I mean? Like our vision of America is kind of like, yeah, we really kind of hate our parents. I see what you're saying. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that sounded weird when I said it. I see what you're saying yeah i mean like like yeah that sounded weird when i said it but what i'm what i know what you're saying you know like i just feel like we kind of are this weird this world that we're in and the three of us and everybody that we know kind of now it's like we have this this kind of just disdain for things like you look at this

fucking sandy hook and all these terrible things that are happening and and everyone wants to focus on the gun rights thing when there's like mental health issues that need to be dealt with There's all kinds of stuff, but there have been crazy people forever. There have been murderers forever It's like but changing the system and trying to get ready just everything just seems so fucked You know you like you wake up, and you just want to watch cartoons You don't want to be definitely don't want to watch the news and you definitely know well one of the reasons Why things are so fucked in as far as our perceptions is because we're getting more information about the real dealings of our government now than ever before. Because of guys like Julian Assange and because of guys like Edward Snowden, one of the things that people don't like about it is like, well, you know, they're exposing American secrets.

They're putting Americans at risk. Well, maybe what Americans are doing is putting Americans at risk, because what they're doing is exposing truth. They're exposing things that we don't like. I remember after September 11th, one of the things that I found the most shocking about it all was how many American flags

were on people's cars. I would drive to work and... That was crazy, I remember. Fucking madness, man. Every car had an American flag on it. It was nuts. My friend Jay London. Jay London started selling American flags. He was smart.

Yeah. He probably made a ton. Bank. It was insane when that happened. You remember? He was exposing secrets. Geraldo exposes secrets and put guys' lives in danger, not Edward Snowden. That's telling you.

But yeah. But the fucking flags, man. That was insane it was like this there was like a sense of you know but who knows if that was real like that i mean you know what i mean it was real people were buying the flags the sense of of nationalism was real obviously but at the same time like there was a side of it that was just like there was marketing and there was all these things and there was like the magic trick going on in the right hand while there's shit going over here in the left hand and then you have like the

fahrenheit 9-11 movie and you're like we're looking at that and everybody's looking in this loose change and some people are saying it wasn't a plane that hit the pentagon it was a missile and he got fucking uh with a wrestler what's his name it's got the tell jesse ventura talking about they got bomb paint you know did you ever watch the 9-11 episode of that conspiracy theory? Yeah, here's the problem with that conspiracy theory. I worked with those very same people when I did that sci-fi show, Joe Rogan Questions Everything. I loved that show. I thought that was a killer show.

Thanks, man. We still might do it. We're still talking. I just don't want to do it the way we did it because there's a lot of fuckery involved in those shows a lot turn the plane around alex jones wants to talk it's like uh wait a minute what yeah there's just they you those shows they like they gravitate towards the fantastic and avoid simplicity employ and avoid what would be boring tv which is really the juice yeah we'll also avoid like other possible scenarios that aren't as sexy you know there's a lot of incompetence

involved in government and sometimes people they misconstrue conspiracy they they think of its conspiracy was really just a bunch of idiots that did a shitty job of protecting people and then you know the the scramble afterwards and then people that have capitalized on the scramble and made money and then people look at the people who capitalized on the event and say oh well this is clear evidence that there was a conspiracy and these people that were the ones that profited off of it maybe not maybe there was a fucking horrible event, and some people look at horrible events as an opportunity to make money,

and they did. And they didn't have anything to do with it happening, but they did have something to do with profiting off of it. Right. You know, so there's a lot of, like, and people get involved in these conspiracy discussions, and unfortunately what happens is

when you start labeling a bunch of shit conspiracies that aren't really conspiracies, you throw the whole thing into a tizzy because now no one knows what the fuck to believe and if i find out that you're wrong about a bunch of ridiculous conspiracy assumptions if you're wrong about those what what else what am i supposed to think about all the other shit that you're saying yeah you're very right about that and that's a real problem with conspiracy theories is that the people who find them they're sexy to find so people go looking for them and fucking everything and they're not willing to abandon them once they have sort of called them out once they've called out a conspiracy theory they stick with it and they ride that fucker right into the rocks right you know and a lot of these 9-11 guys are like that there's a lot of

these 9-11 guys there's photos that people said look it's clear that thermite cut this steel and the steel's an asshole they cut that steel so they can move it like this is all after the fucking buildings went down yeah you guys are touting this as evidence that thermite was used they cut the fucking girders so that they can move that shit out of there yeah well you why did they get rid of all that wasted shit but over to china what do you want them to do you want them to hang on to it what do you want them to do put it in a pile so that you can go and send your independent investigators that are going to go over and scan for thermite yeah yeah that's silly see i know now you you start talking about that and

the first thing i think about is the biggest one is what happened with Osama bin Laden. Oh, we dumped his body over. I remember that whole story. Everybody talks about that. And it's like people say he was not there. They had nothing to do with it. There was never a situation there. He's been dead for a long time.

Yeah, a lot of people, special ops people, say that he's been dead forever. Yeah, yeah. They say that he died ages ago, and they just did this to make him. They pulled that dude out of the freezer and chucked him into the ocean chucked him in the we got him yeah right yeah i don't know man who the fuck knows it's but you you're right though man people will ride that shit down and it's like you end up kind of like it's just more confusion it is it's like white noise and static you know around all time. It's almost just as bad as the media is. Well, and it helps them.

It helps anyone in government because it also shows that anytime there's any sort of a cataclysmic disaster, anytime there's any sort of an event like a 9-11, there's so much scrambling and there's so much chaos afterwards that it's impossible to get a clear story on what exactly happened yeah they love that yeah especially if you know if it's like when they're involved in something that's why edward snowden and people like that really terrify him because they tried to you know they planted fake snowden stories that were like there was a there was a ufo one that they were trying to plant them so he would look like a kook, and they weren't real real. It would be like an article in some European magazine saying, Snowden papers say that the government knew about UFOs and has had them for a long time and all this.

UFOs are a perfect one, right? Perfect one, man. I mean, it's like I'm obsessed with all this shit. I'm obsessed with all of it, but the reality is I would love to see a would love to see a ghost i've never seen one never fucking seen a fucking ghost i've never seen a fucking alien i've never seen any of it i've tried i've slept in haunted houses i've met people that have seen go like anytime somebody tells me a ghost story the first thing i'm thinking is like you're fucking crazy like that's the first thing i think because i've never seen one have you ever had an experience with the ghost no i've gone to the comedy store really late at night the comedy store oh yeah i've heard about

all that i've heard about all the shit about the murder the killing room they had up there or whatever well the comedy store used to be cero's nightclub yeah and it was owned by bugsy siegel yes many people were murdered there and cero's nightclub you, this was back in the 1930s, I guess, in the 1940s, like whenever it was. They were the early 20th century. And that was a place where Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis would perform. And the Comedy Store's original form was like essentially a mob club. It was a mob-run nightclub. And a lot of people were killed there there was a tunnel from the back of the comedy store main room the green room in the main room where you would go and take this tunnel up into

a house that was up in the hills like they had it during the uh illegal uh bootlegging era wow yeah there was a lot of wacky shit that happened in that place and because of that i've heard many stories about a person that sits in the audience or something. There's some lady that you've seen. Yeah, I've heard mostly bullshit. Mostly bullshit. I was there. I performed at the comedy store for 13 years. Wow.

And I never saw shit. Yeah. I looked around. I went there late at night. I would sit in the main room when the lights were out and everyone was gone and just wait for shit to happen. Wow. Yeah, nothing happened let's see that's but that doesn't mean that something couldn't be there i just want to see some

fucking proof man i mean these people write these fucking books and go on these talk shows and say this shit i'm like i don't believe a fucking word you're saying i just can't believe it because i can't i've never seen it man i mean but imagine if you did and what you saw was a brief but unique moment and in that brief unique moment you saw yeah and then it's gone you're like what the fuck but you saw it yeah there's no way to measure it there's no way i become a kook i guess you may be right talk shows and be like and then his face was i mean i don't know man it's i haven't completely ruled it out because so many people brought out ghosts i just I guess maybe right. Talk shows and be like, and then his face was, I mean, I don't know, man.

It's, I haven't completely ruled it out because so many people brought out ghosts. I just want to see some proof. I just want to see something. I mean, it just seems so nuts. Like I got abducted by aliens and my ass got probed and all this shit. Like I see these people and you're like, these poor people are so lonely and they got nothing going on.

And they either dream this shit up or they're taking Ambien walking around in their front yard asleep and right. You know, have this thing or whatever it is like i i just don't know it's like i i want to man me and my dad went to go see fire in the sky when i was a kid when that movie came out you know it was just touching into mainstream all this like right alien abduction shit you know and i used to watch x-files every fucking week i think that travis walton guy's been kind of called out as being a bullshit right it turned out it turned out to there was some kind of thing there was fraud to it it's like yeah it always is going to it's like that have you seen that movie um it was so well done the well i mean the movie's okay but the fourth close the fourth kind oh yeah

no i didn't did you see it because it was, yeah, because they had this lady who's supposed to be the real lady, and they have her interviews with Mila Jovovich acting out the scenes. But it was all fake. They set up this whole thing. I mean, Blair Witch was the first to do this kind of shit. But eventually, it's all coming down as fake, I would think. Well, that's just entertainment. I mean, the real problem is when you deal with the people that are involved in the quote-unquote UFO community.

I've interviewed a ton of those for that television show, and I sat down. The show, each episode was only an hour long, but in that hour-long episode, I had several hour-plus-long conversations with a lot of different people that were involved in these things. And one thing that you get out of them is that these motherfuckers only have one option. That option in their head is that UFOs are real, even if they haven't seen shit themselves. And what they're not taking into account is how many people are liars. I told this story before. I was in the woods once, and I thought I saw a wolf.

I thought it was a wolf for about four seconds at the most. It was a squirrel. I saw a squirrel. I was like, is that a wolf? Is that a squirrel? What the fuck is wrong with me? It was literally like that. I thought it was a wolf.

It was a squirrel. And it was the woods. And I'm sane. And I'm also, I constantly check myself. I'm very objective like that. I'm always like, what are you doing, dummy? I'm always myself. I'm very objective like that. I'm always like, what are you doing, dummy? I'm always like saying that to myself to make sure that, but some people don't ever say, what are you doing, dummy? They say, I know what I saw.

That's like the joke with no punchline thing. You know what I mean? It's like there's no punchline to get you out of it. So you're stuck in the joke forever. It's like, I know exactly what you're talking about like the other day my wife came home and i was drunk with a knife and because i because i had um i had this our doorbell fell off right our doorbells like like stuck to our front door it's not like wired in some kind of wireless thing and it's what it had fallen off so i put it inside the house and my wife was gone and i was she's

working and i was drunk i was just drinking and hanging out and like playing i was a video game that me and my buddies play and stuff and i had been drinking and all of a sudden the doorbell rings and i'm like doorbells inside you know like i'm like holy shit you got your knife i'll get a knife out you know because that's like as if someone's a bad guy they gotta ring the doorbell first before they get you or what do you know but they're in the house and ringing the doorbell let me know they're in the house you know and i'm not a guy i'm not like a security cat like i'm i'm always the guy that goes downstairs to check it out i'm not i'm got no problem with that i got no problem walking

downstairs there may be somebody down that you know but in this moment i was like i'm alone and the doorbell's ringing on the inside of the house and this fucking sucks and i'm hammered so i'm like getting the knife out you know but but like again same kind of thing like i think i'll see something i think i'll hear something and my mind goes these places but at the end of the day i know it's ridiculous you know unless it's a home invasion of tweakers that's the only thing i'm worried about the tweaker home invasion which was rampant here when i first moved into town in the flatlands but yeah tweaker home invasions are real if tweakers tweakers need money bad yeah they they come up with wacky plans that's the number one thing that happens to meth heads

is they lose their ability to make good decisions yeah yeah because it's back after a couple days and shit you know you've been out for like nine days you gotta get more yeah well they're also like they don't see how it's almost like their judgment gets cut off. Like they can only see like a couple of steps forward. They can't see like the whole future. Yeah. So they see, oh, I know what I'll do. I'll just store all the meth in my ass. No one's going to check there.

And then they get arrested and they're pulling meth out of their ass. What? What are you doing back there, man? How'd you find it? Like, how did I find it? Do you know that people store things in their ass? Guys have stored guns in their ass. So there's this one article in GQ about this guy who was a lawyer, and he was representing meth heads.

And someone, I think it was Vanity Fair, GQ, one of those. And along the way, he started doing meth. And then he started selling meth. Wow. It's like Rush kind of. Yeah. His basement had buckets of meth. Like he had like made it and like was storing it in his basement.

People are like, are you out of your fucking mind? Yeah, he was. Yeah, he was out of his mind. That's insane. He was a lawyer representing meth heads who became Heisenberg. He went full retard. Dude, that's so insane. What a great story. I got to find that article. Yeah, I's so insane. What a great story.

I've got to find that article. Yeah, I wish I – it was many years ago. But I remember reading that one of the experts that they were interviewing was talking about your lack of ability to make critical decisions and that it goes out the window. It's one of the first symptoms of meth use is people start doing – like rational people start doing really irrational things and don't seem to understand the consequences of it it's like they can't there's a so yeah they don't see you know you see several steps ahead like you say like well you know if I go outside and light that car on fire well if it explodes and then what if the tree catches on fire and then the building catches on fire fuck man I could start a big fire meth heads don't think that they all they think is i'm gonna light

that fucking car on fire nothing's gonna happen you know that's that's so i know i've known plenty of people who have gone down that path and i mean i've tried this shit you've tried math yeah because it's just like it's like really powerful coke it's like if you like i've been there have been times and places where someone is is had that shit like i mean it's i'm not a big i'm not like fucking doing blow all day long or anything but there've been times i've done shows and shit and there's me around to be like hey man want to party and i'm like yeah fuck it man yeah right it's some guy you like think the guy's gonna chop up some blow or something right and then it was it'll be like uh it's it's meth but i mean it's funny to chop up some blow or something, right? And then it'll be like it's meth.

But I mean, it's funny to call it meth because it's crank or speed. When I first moved here, I was partying a bunch, and there was this guy that had this yellow dog speed. It was like yellowish powder. And it's the same kind of effect. Like one line of it will keep you up for like 10 hours. Like with Coke, you want to do more every hour or every you know 30 minutes and with meth like you do a line and you're like boo like for fucking

you can stay up for like 10 hours you know if you want to and then those guys like that's why meth like you don't need as much of it and they'll just do some or they'll smoke it and do that and you know it's like that's what it is it's like really really powerful coke so like i can't stay up all night on coke and i have stayed up all night one time on meth just one line of it of just being up all and you just like play the guitar and you're like singing and you're just so into singing you know but like in in the southeast where we play a lot it's it's so big down there i mean right i mean every like my buddies that live in kentucky and stuff like it's everywhere and their buddies all do it and they'll you know fall they'll do it sometimes they'll do it occasionally and then one of the guys will start doing it too much and he'll

fucking like he'll you know there's some tons of sad stories guys with kids and shit that are just doing it and staying up for eight and nine days and the kids have no idea and they're fucking just wired and get you know yeah so i mean it's it's just insane it's not it's it burns like a motherfucker too when you do it like when you take when you do if you do a lot of it it like burns your nose like in insane really like burns the inside of your nose yeah i mean but it's kind of awesome to burn the burn is kind of the addictive thing because it's like it's like and then you're like eating jalapenos yeah it's like snorting jalapenos so how many times you've done meth uh it's probably gonna sound like a lot five five that doesn't sound like a lot

the worry the worry that people have is that you do it once and that you're you're gone no it's not like heroin in that way i've never done heroin but it's but i know people have done heroin i know it's like that the there's that immediate like euphoria thing and then with with with meth the reason why it's so it's so cheap it's so much more potent and i think that's why it's such a big and it's like it's such a big deal you know it's it's easy to make with weird shit and drano and all this fucking shit in it and then in pseudofed and all that you know i mean they got to in the south where they had to move Sudafed behind the counter because People were coming in and buying like six seven packs of Sudafed and well if you buy it out here You have to give you your drivers. Yes. Yeah, that's yeah

That's in the south where they were like real fast But I mean, you know, I mean I probably there probably been times I mean there's private times I may have done it like where I thought I was doing something else and then i'm like oh that's that's definitely that's definitely crank you know what i mean but it's like my brothers and sisters and cousins i mean they probably hate me for saying this but i mean where they come from that's common it's common that people have done crank or do it yeah i mean it's not it's not like weird it's it's definitely not addictive like i mean if you're the type of person who's never done cocaine and you do cocaine and all of a It's not weird. It's definitely not addictive. I mean, if you're the type of person who's never done cocaine and you do cocaine,

and all of a sudden you're like, fuck, I've got to do more cocaine all the fucking time. I know certain people that are into coke like that, but I could never do that. If I have done coke, I can't do it for another couple of days. I'm not the guy who stays up all night and does the whole bag. I'll do a bump or something like that. It's been a long time since i've done it but if i did do it i would just do small amounts of it you know here or there but there are people that if you have that personality where you're going to be the guy who does he locks himself in a hotel room for three days and does blow it doesn't show up for your job and all that shit because just because you got a bag of blow

at a at a party you know then you're gonna have a problem with crank but i think it's the same kind of thing though it's just hardcore man it's not my style like some certain people prefer crank to coke that i would like or you know some people prefer adderall and do all that and it's kind of like i mean none of it excites me that much but i would definitely anything that lasts a really long time. I can't do I got kids. I mean, like I'm in a party. I'm like weed is like right down my alley.

That's I love weed. I can fucking do it in the studio. I do it at night after our kids are asleep to go to bed. Like it's kind of it's never going to fuck you up so much. You can't snap out of it and fucking make a good decision. Right. Times, you know, you can like, man man i shouldn't have fucking ate that old pizza but you know but but it's not like you know i went and robbed my mom's house and i woke up two days later in a

ditch and i'm like fuck i probably shouldn't have done that crank yeah it's those speedy ones they they accelerate you and they they cut out a lot of decision making process yeah they definitely do they definitely i mean just in in there's no two ways about it after you've been up an entire day you just start fucking i mean you start seeing stuff like i've done that without drugs you know what i mean i've stayed up days on and you just start getting delirious and like when you're using something that's fueling your heart rate and keeping you what you through your brain is still acting as if you are not on the drugs and you've you've been up for five days and you're using something that's fueling your heart rate and keeping you, your brain is still acting as if you are not on the drugs and you've been up for five days and you're seeing shit, but yet you're just wired from that shit. That's what, like they do the home invasion thing.

I used to live on, I've lived all over this town, but Santa Monica and Gardner, there's an Ashtaburger right there. I lived right there behind the Fatburger. right there yeah i lived right there behind the fat burger and there was a house there that notoriously had been like tweakers like kicked the door down and came in and were just fucking like tied the whole family up and shit and robbed their money because that's all they want is they want money to buy more crank right essentially the the deal but they end up fucking killing people and all kinds of shit over you know yeah yeah well you know they think well we're gonna get caught kill these people fuck it we'll never get caught that way yeah you know just don't they're not seeing a bunch of steps ahead yeah for sure people are terrified of crank they're terrified of meth they're terrified

of anything that makes people maniacs you know that's the the big fear yeah the bath salts craze that guy who like chewed the dude's face off yeah turns out he wasn't on bath salts like well he was here's the thing they they say oh all they found in the system was marijuana the real problem is they don't have tests for bath salts so when they say that's a huge issue in kentucky my friend because see crank is now getting to where it's like too expensive and the coal miners the coma you know the tests for amphetamines show up in their system so So the coal miners want it. And that's where that bath salts thing started. Because from what I heard, one of the regions, I guess,

was that the coal miners were doing that and it wouldn't show up on the tests. They'd fucking, you know, smoke or snort a bunch of that shit and go down in the fucking coal mines and fucking work for like three days straight. It makes sense. What they do apparently is they take a drug, whether it's meth or something along those lines, and then they alter it slightly. So it doesn't show up in a test,

but it still has some pretty significant response in the human body. And then they sell it as not for human consumption, bath salts. Like I didn't understand it. I thought it was just like people had figured out that bath salts make you high when you do them, like there's something weird about the bath salts you snort but no they just they're selling them as bath salts because that's the way you could sell it yeah there's fake pot too that they sell it's like something like that and i tried smoking that one time and it was terrible it was like just gave me a headache instantly you know you could have

smoked a cookie and probably done less damage you know i have to say like i'm a foodie too and all this and i just while we're on this i don't know why i punched my head but there was a tweet you sent out that i saved the photograph and i look at it is that when you had like seven eggs and it was like clearly a little butter in the in the pan yeah i cooked too and i was like i was looking at this fucking thing and i was like god i could eat that all day and all night but the fact that you have that photograph the seven eggs i have it in my phone right now well that's i have 24 chickens really yeah so those are all fresh eggs that i get from my yard yeah it's it's so great when you can get them no no no worries man and it was like the eggs

are you know i'm getting them like the day they come out they come out of the chicken boom i'm frying them and then it's a dark like an orange yolk so dead like if i go to a restaurant a diner and i order some eggs you look at the yolk you're like what did you guys feed your chickens like paper like there's nothing there's nothing in this yolk i think i have the fucking photograph you saved the photo of my egg i did i did i know. I know I saved it. It's in here somewhere. Well, I've been eating nothing but farm fresh eggs or yard fresh eggs for the past year. My goal is by the end of this year to have all the meat in my house be wild game that I've killed and all our eggs be the chickens. Do you go hunting a lot? Yeah.

It's funny. I've never been hunting. Really? Yeah. I'm a computer nerd like was as a kid like my dad we went we went out shooting one time i did quail i did quail hunting with my buddy when i was a kid maybe you know they go out in the field and everybody's shooting at the fucking birds and shit but i never i've never even been hunting i mean i've just never

been my my it's never been my thing like i like guns i've i've gone shooting guns and things like that but but i've never i've just never really done it would you be into doing it i mean i'd be i i tell you like i can bear people around and be like i can never fucking blow a deer's brains out or whatever but i mean i i would go with you i would definitely go i'm not like i'm not opposed to going so you would go but you wouldn't pull the trigger i don't know if i would pull the trigger i've never done it. I think you'd pull the trigger. I've never killed an animal with a gun. Have you ever had venison?

Oh, I love it. I love the taste of it. It only comes from killing deer. You've got to kill deer. No, I know. I know that. I'm just saying. You know what I mean?

But there are certain people that are like, and my wife would never kill, you never go hunting. Or I have lots of friends that would probably be like, I don't know if I could do it. I would go. Got no problem with it. I think that there's so many good things that come from hunting, like whether it be, and I love that when people say that they hunt their own,

their own meat and, and eat it and all that, I'm just saying I've never done it. I mean, people, people think that I'm like a Harley riding, like they think I'm tall, first of all.

And second of all, they think that I'm like into hunting and, and like all this redneck shit. And I've been like, I have a computer geek that moved to LA when I was 20. You know what I mean? But you sing country music. Your dad is one of the great country music icons of all time.

I know. But he didn't really hunt or do anything like that either. He had a gun collection of like Civil War era guns and stuff. Oh, wow. He's into that kind of stuff. Very into history and stuff, which I was real good. You know, in his own way, he was kind of nerdy forgot from being from texas and being who he was you know but he was just kind of in into history and things like that but we went hunting with hank jr one time

and neither one of us hit nothing like we would go fishing every once in a while uh tony joe white is a great artist who used to take us fishing my dad said he had a curse like he could never catch anything and i went fishing with johnny cash one time too wow which is kind of funny but i was a kid and we didn't went fishing with johnny cash holy shit johnny had like a bunch of fish that he'd already caught and he had them rigged somewhere that so that so he was going to try and make where my dad would actually do you think he caught something because he could never go like we were we weren't't real outdoorsy people. Let's just say it that way.

I watched way more horror movies with my dad. He used to wake me up in the middle of the night and say, there's a scary movie on TV. And I'd go downstairs. I was like six or seven. I'd go downstairs and proceed to get petrified by some horrible movie that a six-year-old shouldn't watch. That's hilarious.

So that was kind of more of our activity, listen to music and watch movies it's funny isn't it that country music is inexorably connected to like hunting and fishing yeah well i mean naturally i guess you know because of the the era and the like you know if you go back a little bit i mean not very far from my dad's generation him growing up and all the all of the the Grand Old Opry and all that. I mean, all those guys were into that. They all lived in the woods, like Nashville.

And let's not even say Nashville. Even all of the Southeast was far, far more undeveloped. So back then, it was really country folks. And they were in country music. They would roll their windows up when they listened to it because it was frowned upon. It was like a poor people's music, you know? So a lot of the people in the South and stuff, it's inevitably tied into that, of course.

But I mean, you know, it's funny because now it's like someone, if they're critical of, like, I don't represent myself pretending to be like anything I'm not. But if someone was ever critical of the fact that I live in L.A. and I'm not like a country boy and I play like country style music,'s like do you guys really think that you know jason aldean and these fucking these new country guys that are so big like you really think those guys daily existence is like tailgate parties and hunting and things like that you guys are fucking retarded because they're shopping for shoes on melrose that's what i'm getting caught cheating at the caboo Cantina. Do you know what I'm saying? Shopping for shoes on Melrose. I don't know, man. These make you look country?

Man, these jeans are perfectly pre-torn. Yeah, right? Perfectly pre-torn is the worst. God, it's so fucking stupid. There's nothing stupider than wearing jeans that already have holes in them built in. It's so dumb. Yeah, of course it's so fucking stupid there's nothing stupider than wearing jeans that already have holes in them built in it's so dumb of course it's but it's something everybody wants they want to like already be worn in you know they want to pretend that you like this is I've had a chance like the decade that

they've they've been you know really really wearing it out yeah but they don't even look remotely like uniformly worn like when people have those jeans that have holes in the in the knees like it's obvious you didn't get those holes working yeah like all the rest of the jeans perfect you just got stupid like what a weird thing to become a style yeah holes in your clothes is a style yeah i know it's like you see in my jeans like i don't i'm the worst like i i don't wash my jeans like i wear them for months and like they literally get holes worn in them like because of because of that like i'll get them in the knees sometimes i walk on the back of them so like the backs of them are like ripped right do you mean and so like i i eventually

get holes in them because they're just old and shitty. But it's so funny, man. It's like, there's, like, all these weird styles right now that are just, like, what is happening? Like, there's an affliction kind of thing that was going on. Like, all those Nashville guys were wearing that. Yeah. Like, all the tribally looking shit. Yeah, skulls and.

Yeah, but not, like, cool looking shirts like your shirt. Like, you know. That's a monkey. Either. Well, it's a fucking cool monkey. That's a chimp with a mushroom in his mouth. That's my own line, actually. Really? Yeah, higherprimate.com.

This shirt is based on Terrence McKenna's stoned ape theory that lower hominids ate mushrooms, and then they had this idea of nuclear power and spirituality. Yeah, that's what the shirt represents. Interesting. Yeah, McKenna had this bizarre idea. It's an interesting idea that his brother, actually, his brother Dennis McKenna, who's still alive, is a fascinating guy himself,

actually substantiated with science in a way that's way better than I ever could. If you want to listen to the first podcast that I did with Dennis McKenna, and he explains the actual effect that psilocybin has on the mind and why it would uh why it would facilitate the construction of language and that what would he what McKenna's theory was was that what happened to lower primates is that somewhere around you know a million plus whatever whatever, years ago, when over a period of two million years, the size of the human brain doubled. And that's like a very substantial event in biology.

And they really have no idea what caused human beings to become so much more intelligent than they were previous. much more intelligent than they were previous and his theory is that this is at the same time that the um these tropical rainforests receded into grasslands climate change forced these tropical rainforests uh to become grasslands and these monkeys climbed down off trees and started experimenting with uh various food sources different things. And one of the things they do is they start flipping over cow patties. And they'd find bugs and worms and shit to eat underneath them. But there was also things growing on the cow patties. And those things were psilocybin mushrooms. Wait, not cows in the jungle, though.

This is like they've dropped and they've gone. They seceded into grasslands. The climate had changed. Right, right. And rainforests had become grasslands. That's fascinating. And so these apes. The monkeys ate changed. Right, right. And rainforests had become grasslands. That's fascinating. And so these apes... The monkeys ate mushrooms.

Exactly. And then got smarter. Yeah, and there's a bunch of different reasons why, besides the facilitation of language, which is the very specific reaction that psilocybin has on the human mind, and why Dennis McKenna described it very well. I can't really repeat what he said. I'm not smart enough.

I don't remember it either. But what McKenna also said was that psilocybin in low doses increases visual acuity. It sharpens edges. It makes you be able to see things better. It makes you hornier. So it would make you see better and make you hornier. So if you see better, you'd probably be more aware of things, probably're a better hunter if you're hornier you'd fuck more so the the mush the mushroom eating monkeys would have a biological advantage over the non-mushroom eating monkeys

well you do know if a bunch of monkeys are walking around and one of them eats mushrooms and all of a sudden he's like you know they're gonna be like like, dudes, you guys got to try this shit. Out of all the things that make sense as far as looking at the effect of a substance, the effects that a substance has on the body, what would cause massive consumption of the substance over a long period of time, like two million years, what would cause direct changes to the human body? What would cause direct changes to the actual function of the mind? Psilocybin is like number one. It's so common. It's everywhere.

It grows out of cow shit. It's totally edible. You're hungry. You can eat it. You eat it. You trip balls. You trip balls. You think about things.

You develop language. You develop alternative. Have you done DMT? Oh, yeah. I've never done it, and i'm dying to try it uh do you know sturgill simpson is no you should check out his record there's a record it's new and he has a song called turtles all the way down oh i've heard about this it's about dmt right well he apparently he did a bunch of dmt when he's doing the record and was just like uh yeah there's

that song itself talks about dmt and psilocybin and stuff in it. But it's like real old school country. That tattoo's a DMT molecule. Really? I didn't know this about you. See, I've never experienced it, and I'm so into all that, too. Oh, dude, let's get together and do DMT. Don't say it on the radio.

Okay, I won't. I promise I won't bring any crank. Well, DMT is one of the weirdest ones too because you can never be tested for it I mean they would have to catch you I've never had a full blown that kind of an experience with anything I've done mushrooms before and I laughed a lot I've done acid it didn't really see anything but but I'm very fascinated with like the the peyote kind of experience and all that and I've. And I've never had it.

Sturgill's like, you got to try it, dude. DMT is mushrooms times a million plus aliens. Wow. That's what it is. Yeah, what's the deal with the aliens at DMT? Well, there's something that happens when you take DMT where you pass through visually or spiritually, whether it's real. Dimensions.

You pass through into some new space. And when you're in some new space, what's weird about DMT. Is this all in your head with your eyes shut? Yes, your eyes are shut. But if you open your eyes, you're going to see some crazy shit too. You'll see some crazy shit though that's also, you're better off keeping your eyes closed though because then you'll get sort of a full representation

of what's going on and what you're seeing. When your eyes are open, your eyes are taking in the physical world, like what you're seeing when your eyes are open your eyes are taking in the physical world like what you're seeing in front of you and you're trying to combine the two of them and it's very baffling it's better than just shut your silent darkness close your eyes take it and then just close your eyes and lay back and you go on the craziest trip it's it's impossible to it for anything to be stronger it's impossible for anything to be a more potent hallucination because it seems more real than reality itself like once you once you do dmt the the weirdest thing about it is coming back like regular reality is so dry and dull it's like

that's more real like it's more you feel it you also feel if this makes any sense you feel the experience in your in your essence in your in your essence as a human and it sticks with you after fuck man I've had trips that stuck with me for five or six years where every day I would think about that trip for five or six years Wow man and this that's I'm very fascinated by this man well it's the very the very components of your. Well, it's the very components of the brain itself, the very human neurotransmitters that power thinking, that work inside your mind.

I mean, these are endogenous chemicals. These aren't like, it's not like something that's alien to the human body that you put in and it has this crazy effect. No, DMT is actually produced by your body itself. So when you add it, when you take it and smoke it, your body already knows what it is. That's one of the reasons why it's so transient. When you take it, you have this extreme high,

you have this wild ride of hallucinations and experiences or whatever it is. And how long does it last? That's the crazy thing. 15 minutes max. Wow. I didn't sell the other time, which kind of was like a short thing, but that was nothing. More if you do it intravenously.

If you do it intravenously, it can last like a half hour or more. Really? Yeah, like Rick Strassman, who was the guy who, he was one of the first guys to get federal, he got federal permission, the DEA's permission to do these research studies on dimethyltryptamine intravenously in patients. He did it out of the University of New Mexico and they did several of these. And then they did it, he wrote a book on it called DMT, the spirit molecule, where these people have these incredible, incredible experiences while on this intravenous dimethyltryptamine and uh repeatable experiences that would go to these and very very very much mirrored the uh alien abduction experiences that people talk about like being taken aboard alien spacecrafts and

being brought to alien places and alien lands like very very similar reptiles yeah so he started connecting uh dimethyltryptamine and endogenous dumps of dimethyltryptamine to alien abduction experiences and that's what he thinks that's all about he thinks all of these people that have these like i woke up in the middle of the night i was on a spaceship you just your brain just dumped a bunch of dmt in and somehow or another you got caught in the middle of this world of being awake and dreaming so your body when you're dreaming is essentially producing something that's causing you to hallucinate the speculation is that that's dmt as well they haven't totally proven that yet but they're pretty sure they've already proven that dmt is

produced by the pineal gland that's that was a long time for that was speculation but they've proven that that in live rats that live rats actually produce dmt in that gland so that's that was a long time for that was speculation but they proven that that in live rats the live rats actually produced EMT in that gland so that's really yeah it's all pretty trippy trippy trippy shit that's that is very fascinating I mean like I said I honestly haven't I have never just never I'm dying to do it I've just never done I'm just into that man i'm into that experience i'm into that like going to the next level oh sweet yeah this is one of the it's one of the weirdest ones because uh it's in so many different plants it's not like uh you have to go and get a pomegranate from brazil and that's the only way you get this what's the walk ayahuasca ayahuasca. Ayahuasca.

Yeah. Ayahuasca is essentially the way they figured out... The altered states and all that shit. Yeah. Like the movie. Yeah. Well, what ayahuasca is is an orally active form of DMT. Because DMT, when you smoke it, it goes directly into your blood supply.

But DMT is in so many different plants that if you got it from eating it, you would be tripping your balls out every time you have a salad. Yeah. Because grass has it in it. A lot of different, thousands of different plants have it in it. Wow. So because of that, your body produces chemicals that mitigate that. And one of them is called monoamine oxidase. And monoamine oxidase is produced in your gut. So when the Amazon shamans figure out how to give people DMT with a –

see, in modern – like today in the United States, in the modern chemical world, there's scientists that have figured out how to synthesize pure DMT. So they take it from plants or from various chemicals, and they synthesize pure DMT you smoke it goes right in your bloodstream it's pure DMT but you can't do that in the Amazon so what they figured out how to do is make an orally active version of it so what it is is they combine the leaves of one plant with the roots of another and one of them being har mean which is a natural ma o inhibitor so it's a monoamine oxidase inhibitor that they mix

in so it's like a dmt trip but it's not quite as intense it's a it's a slow release longer version that's very hallucinogenic and very spiritual in a lot of ways but i've only done the big one the big one is the dm this the smoking dmt is you get shot through a cannon to the center one the big one is the DM this the smoking DMT is you get shot through a cannon to the center of the fucking universe the way I describe it as you're communicating with complex geometric patterns that are made out of love and understanding man that's so funny because I've heard that I've heard the geometrics thing and and you know I'm a big study of like sacred geometry and and all these kind of things I'm very fascinated by, I'm a big studier of like sacred geometry and all these kind of things.

I'm very fascinated by this. I'm very fascinated. Oh, I'm so fascinated by geometry. Sacred geometry and fractals and all those different. When you look at just the nature of the universe itself, just the nature of cellular life, subatomic particles, atoms becoming individuals, individuals being a part of a group of individuals that live on a planet, the planet being a part of a group of individuals that live on a planet the planet being a part of the galaxy the galaxy being a part of the universe on and on and on and on like it seems like

there's there's a fractal geometric nature to life itself the Fibonacci sequence that describes like you know like the way sunflower seeds are developed the way a nautilus shell looks, the way so many different plants grow. There's all this weird sort of fractal mathematical nature to the world itself. Numbers and the Tree of Life, 33. There's so many things that I'm so fascinated with

that I feel like when you unlock those kind of things in your mind and you're into that stuff, like there's a great book called gateway to the gods that i read i don't know how i ran across this book but it's it's about this guy it's about a lot of sacred geometry it talks about uh it really deals with the the in the bible like the watchers and the nephilim and the concept that angels with that were actually like interdimensional travel and it deal it touches a little bit on the DMT-ish kind of thing. And it touches on some of that kind of travel, mind travel. But I'm very fascinated by it, man.

I just, you know, I think if your mind is open to it and you do do something like DMT, it probably enhances your, like you being so knowledgeable on so much of this probably has enhanced your trip when you do it. Because you're, I mean, I don't know how. Probably. I mean. Are you, like, are you able to focus on what you're looking at or whatever you're seeing in your mind?

So hard. So hard. It's so crazy and it changes every second. Like, every second you look at it, it becomes something even more impossible. That's the weirdest thing about it. It's just, you can't believe you're seeing something that's like this. Like, how is this possible? Aren't there beings that more than one person has seen?

Yes. And they all describe them as the same? See, it's hard. Did you do that? I've seen, see, my trips have been different every time I've done it. That's one of the weirdest things about it is, like someone saying that they've seen the same things that I've've seen i'm not even sure i could tell you what i saw like i can tell you what i can remember about what i saw but one of the weirdest aspects of it is

that it's impossible like when you're seeing it like this isn't real this can't be possible that i can actually see this and then like one one of the things that one of my trips, one of the most profound ones, it was like these like almost like children that were in this dimension. Children that were like infinitely more intelligent than me, but behaved like children and communicated like children. And they would say, I love you 600 million, 500,000 times. Like something like a kid would say. Like, I love you infinity. I love you 50 million, 700,000, like, you a kid would say like i love you infinity i love you 50 million 700,000 fifth and like you know like that kind of shit they would say that and then they would go

look at this and they kept saying look at this and every time they would say look at this they would show you something that was so impossibly beautiful like tears were like flowing down my face because i was conscious i was i had my eyes closed and I was seeing this and I was conscious, but I was crying because it was so beautiful. And then they would say it again. I love you 600 million, 500,000 times. Look at this. And then they would show you something even more insane,

like a million times more insane than what you just saw. It didn't make any sense. It was just, you can't describe it. It's just the fractal nature of the universe embodied in imagery which also had meaning and love connected to it so when you're seeing it you weren't just seeing something beautiful but you were feeling it and it was like almost like it was running through your soul like

it was cleansing you as you saw it like everything that i saw made me every time i saw it every new thing made me love people more made me love life more Maybe more appreciative made me want to hug more and then I thought that was over and they would go look at this And then you'd get hit with a new wave and it was just overwhelming. I'm just crying. I couldn't couldn't hold it in It was just so Unbelievably intense. You're had a negative experience. not on dmt no i've had never negative experiences in that um dmt is sort of exposed that i was maybe a little out of control in my life like maybe too stressed out or maybe uh you know taking too much time devoted too much time to work

and bullshit related things it really didn't matter in the long like like the negative aspect was it like after it was over i was like hey I need to just fucking chill out. Like I need to just smell the daisies. I need to just enjoy this experience, you know, and just not 15 minutes. Yeah. But it wasn't, I've never had a negative experience in that. Like while I was in, I was like, this is negative, but I've seen it. I've seen people freak out. You have, have you been with someone that freaked out my friend eddie freaked the fuck out the first time he did it but i think it was because he was trying to control it you can't control it you can't you can't like say i'm gonna pull myself out of this and sober up good luck you have to give in

you have to be willing to give in but i mean i'm that's the thing is man it's like i'm i'm that i think you and i are a lot alike in that way that it's like I want something more out of this experience. Like I love life. Like I'm a positive guy. I've got two kids who I love. I love the time with them, everything like that. And that's why it's like I'm so fascinated with like the – I don't believe all the bullshit on the media. And I don't believe all the fucking – all the shit that we've've been talking about this whole show like that's why i'm into the

bitcoin thing which we haven't even gotten into and i'm i mine those things i'm into the technology of it you're mining oh huh i'm i'm yeah i do i mean i'm just into the technology of it i'm into the to the programming side of it in the in in the the cryptology and all that but uh but like i i i am into understanding the full aspect of life while i'm here and and it's like i'm fascinated by religions and i'm my mom i was raised christian my mom's that way like i i you know it's hard for me to say that i'm that i'm like a i'm not a church going kind of guy but but it's like i believe when you're here, if you can leave being good, you know, having been a good guy, that's the thing. But I'm into the knowledge. I'm into, like, discovering where things come from and, you know,

studying, like, the Egyptians and studying the fucking artwork. You know, I'm just into it. So that's why I like something like DMT. Like, if I could travel to other dimensions and party with reptiles i would do it right now you can well you can with dmt i don't know about reptiles i've never seen a reptile while on it but i've seen things that are somehow or another consciousness or appear to be conscious or are representations of your own consciousness in some sort of a much pure, much greater form. But you know who else wasn't a church-going person?

Jesus. Yeah. Jesus didn't have a fucking church. That's true. Churches are human creations. And humans, the problem with any sort of power structure, any top-down power structure, is that people want to contain. Once they have power, they want to retain that structure. People want to contain, once they have power, they want to retain that power. They want to contain the people, to contain the ideologies

of the people that are involved in that group. And then to have an open-minded, completely open situation where you have a group, but there's no structure to it, and everyone's just loving and able to do whatever they want. There's no one person that's the leader. No, that's not what we do. Human beings, everything sort of falls into that weird alpha male monkey category where there's one person that talks and everyone else listens. And that's what you find in churches. That's what you find at political rallies. That's what you find when the president gives a speech on television. There's the one and then there's the listeners. And it's not a dialogue. It's one person talks, and everyone comes in and sits down.

Open up to page 324. We're going to read from the gospel. But there's just one person that's doing this. It's one person that's guiding this whole thing. And that's sort of contrary to the very nature of a cooperative and open group of humans a community yeah and that's also the best way to control people to ensure that this one person disseminates the rules this one person gets to talk and this one person keeps everybody under control the preachers here everyone all rise the honorable judge is here you know all the i mean court court itself you have to stand up

when this asshole who's wearing robes. Like, why are you wearing robes, man? You can't give the law out with a T-shirt and jeans on. You have to wear, like, special fancy clothes in order to understand the law. Wig, back in the day. Yeah, the powdered wigs. The powdered wigs. Crazy, curly, white wigs.

You know, people are mad. They're mad. And they're also running on momentum of an ignorant past, running on the momentum essentially of people that used to write shit down on animal skins. That same momentum is still propelling society today. Oh, yeah, man. Yeah. And it's, yeah, you're right. You're right.

We could get into that forever because I've, you know, just conceptually the way that the control is is is you know doled out it's pretty pretty i mean it's pretty easy it's pretty math mathematical one plus one equals two like you just like i was saying keep the keep keep everybody poor keep everybody uneducated and then convince them that if they don't do what we want them to do they're gonna burn in hell yeah even better poor, now they have a new thing. It's called being in debt. Everyone's in debt. It's way better than poor.

Because poor, you can just deal with being poor. But debt, you can't stop working. You owe money. You're not even. Yeah, that's true. That's exactly it, man. It's like, you know, separate the family. You were getting into Bright Eyes, that man. Bright Eyes? No. Conor Oberst, have you uh you're getting the bright eyes that man

bright eyes no uh connor oberst have you heard him no you know those guys they have a great record called the people's key but the uh the opening the opening line the opening thing is this guy i don't even who it is he's he's talking about exactly what we're talking about and how they how they control the masses and stuff man that's a great speech in the beginning of this thing but you know it's like keeping like keeping the mom and dad separate because they both have to work mm-hmm like you make it so hard for a normal like lower-income family to even be together so that you can disseminate information to each one of them exactly like you want it and they don't have a lot of time together you

know that's a big part of it and it's it's so insane it's just it just is insane and it's just like the wages and the way they control that and the people who make the money it's like like the banking thing this is why the bitcoin thing is so brilliant i mean you know i mean you talked to the to andreas who's like who's like the man but um andreas antinopoulos who we were talking about this before the podcast left that bitcoin the bitcoin foundation yeah i don't we need to have mon again find out what that was all about what that see that the foundation has never been needed this is what's weird about it because they've they're you know the bitcoin itself is the protocol so it's like that's what's brilliant the the foundation was created as

something that was supposed to kind of drive the development of it but it's become it's become a corporation essentially you know it's it's got it had a lot of negative but the the people who are in charge of it now are even more more so people are like they're kind of crooks and shady and but there's really no need for it there's no. There's not like there's a Bitcoin company that people work for. You know, the thing is it's like more like a virus that was set into the world. And then just like the Internet was, you know, there's not like an Internet company that there's a president of the Internet who can decide like today. You know what I mean? That's a beautiful thing about the Internet, isn't it?

It is amazing. But that's why they're trying to do this. This net neutrality thing is such a big issue because they're trying to they're trying to can't like right now time warner cable can already like if they don't like the joe rogan show they can slow down when people go to your site they can slow it down on purpose right but but that's that's shitty enough already but like the with the net neutrality thing they're trying to get rid of, then Time Warner can say, hey, Google, your shit's going to be real slow unless you pay us money.

And so then they're going to start extorting money to go back into their own pocket to actually alter what sites and even blocking sites. And when Time Warner owns all the internet, I mean, there's a giant portion of the internet. I mean, I don't know what the actual numbers are, but it's over 50% of the service provider. And the service provider can then charge companies and decide what people can see. Then that's like the internet is the the purpose of it is you're getting fucked big time you know what i mean yeah they're trying to corporatize it they're trying to control it the same way they've controlled the the airwaves yeah it's like i mean

like like in fucking egypt and they cut they cut the internet you know and shit like that that's what we're like three steps away from happening and that's that's the internet the internet is decentralized there is no one in charge of it. And they know that, you know, and the reality is, is like if, if,

you know, if the, if time Warner becomes that big of a deal, somebody will come out there and run their own wires and fucking set up their own fucking statewide wifi and it'll be fine, you know, but it, it,

it's just tough, man. But you know that like, did you ever get into discussion about Bitcoin, about how you can, you, in a, in a, if I send you know, but it's just tough, man. But you know that like, did you ever get into a discussion about Bitcoin, about how you can, if I send you money, you can attach a message to it, or you can actually like attach a deed,

or I could write a song, and it would be in the blockchain, copyrighted, but you can actually embed a message in the transaction, and that the first transaction ever done by the guy who made it had the, like either Washington Post or like Wall Street Journal, the first transaction ever done by the guy who made it had the, the like Washington, like either Washington post or like wall street journal. The headline was like,

you, the government approves second bailout for banks. Like that was encoded in the first transit transmission. Cause it was like, they're saying like enough, like this shit is so fucked. The banking, the federal reserve,

the government, everything like we've got a solution that where you don't need a banks anymore you know you don't i mean it would change it changes escrow it changes everything like it yeah you don't need banks if you have digital currency i mean that's the the third party is yeah is the mining community so like it's there's no need there's no way to rig it you know yeah i think think that if it can continue and it can grow and evolve, I think it could be. Definitely will. I think it will as well.

I think there's definitely powers that are trying to subvert it. Of course, man. Of course. Because can you imagine? But here's the reality, man. Banks are record stores and are big record companies. And Bitcoin is Napster. That's it.

That's what it is. With Tower Records, man, I used to fucking go there all the fucking time. It's not there anymore. It's true. And all these fucking city national banks on every corner, that's going to happen. Mark my words. They will not be there anymore. That will be the same fate as Tower because people will figure out how to send their money around.

Yeah, and once you get used to buying things with your phone, which is probably the future. Yeah, I mean, I do it all. I bought a fucking computer. Like, I'm such a nerd that I buy old. I bought an old 486 PC with, like, a disk drive in it because I just wanted to play my old games that I liked. I bought one on my phone on the way in here. Wow. You know what I mean?

On eBay, though. But, like, that's's PayPal and you're like paying all kinds of money for that. But like if, you know, I can go on right now, I could go to anywhere and I mean right now, like with Dell,

like start accepting Bitcoin. Like I bought my manager a computer like with some Bitcoin that I had and it was fucking cheap and it was like I sent it. Dell accepts it now? Dell started accepting it

just recently. Wow. You know, Overstock.com was the first one. And now Wikipedia takes it for donations. And it's slowly becoming adopted. And I think it's, you know, back in 94, 93, when the internet was out, people were like, no one's ever going to do this www.somethingorother.com. They're going to have to come up with some easier way to do it.

No one's going to ever. This will never become normal. And,'re going to have to come up with some easier way to do it no one's going to ever this will never become normal and you know it's like here we are 20 years later and it's like the there's no way that anyone could function any of our devices could function without the internet being involved everyone would prefer to go to a website than call a number yeah it's like people download their music they don't buy it really i mean they do but you know i mean it's like so i think that all They don't buy it, really. I mean, they do, but, you know, I mean, it's like, so I think that all the talk around Bitcoin right now is the same kind of talk they were having around the internet then. I think you're right.

But I do think it'll be, there's like messaging programs where you can send money in the text, like on an iPhone. So like if I was like, hey, can you go pick up this? And, you know, here's 40 bucks worth of it or whatever, or, you know, whatever it costs, I can just send it to you instantly and not be in charge. So you could say if we were living together and you wanted me to go pick up a steak. Yeah.

You could go, hey, man, go to the grocery store and go get some food, and here's the money. Yeah, just like that. I mean, there's like a couple cents maybe charged for the transaction fee. But if there is one, it's such a small amount. And that money goes to, it's like a 401k plan for the mining system. Because it's going to eventually hit the mark where it can't make any more, can't generate any more Bitcoin. And then after that, they'll be living off the transaction fees. But it's kind of interesting.

See, like the mining thing, man, it's like some people think of it and they're like, oh, it's like people who want to just like make free money, which is not the way it works. It's like what it actually is, and this is the nerd part of me, like I also run a full node of Bitcoin at home, which means like I'm part of the network of transactions that happen. It's kind of complicated, but at the same time, like the the the technology behind the whole transaction confirming process, which is the AKA the mining is what is so fascinating to me. And I like I mean, I'll go on the Internet and an IRC and hang out and talk to the developers and shit because I'm just I think that someone has to and is going to use this technology in the way that Bitcoin is and make finally a decentralized entertainment distribution platform. Because eventually, like iTunes takes 30%. Like they've been good to me in different moments, but here's the reality. You make something that costs nothing to duplicate because it's digital and they're taking 30% of it. Plus a company like TuneCore like jabs you and robs you to get to even get your shit on itunes if you're just a new band you know who's like i how do i get my shit on itunes somebody's

gonna collect some money for them to just email your song over to itunes in the correct format and then itunes takes 30 like if you got rid of that and you got it where i was like say i gave you a david bowie song if there was a way to just have a proof of that and you got it where I was like, say I gave you a David Bowie song. If there was a way to just have a proof of ownership and have like a transaction fee like there is in Bitcoin. Where if I just gave you an album that would somehow pay David Bowie when you get it. There doesn't need to be the iTunes, the store you go to, to get it. It's like, really, if I'm sending you a song via email, there should be a way to build a decentralized distribution platform like that. It's crazy that Amazon takes that much.

Or that iTunes, rather, takes that much. How can they do that? I'll tell you why. Because everyone said the internet is never going to be a way that people buy music. And iTunes said, we're here and we're putting our flag down and you guys are going to be sorry. And that's what happened. They jumped in when nobody cared. There were meetings that they said, we don't care.

Don't talk to us about MP3s. Like Sony said, don't talk to us about MP3s until it's 30% of the market. And by the time it was 30% of market itunes was had ipods and was weighted but 30 seems like a lot of money because it's not even like they're storing it on their website and then you download it from their servers like they need all the bandwidth and so you're you know because your album is you know x amount of gigs that it i mean that's not what's going on they're not storing it well i mean you have to have a host they do store it i mean that's not what's going on they're not storing it well i mean you have to have a host they do store it i mean do they well they don't do it with for podcasts for podcasts your podcast

gets downloaded from a host like a torrent yeah i have a company called the company's called libsyn and libsyn oh yeah this is what tunecore is so that's what tunecore is that's the way tunecore or like reverb nation and all those things work, is you can get your stuff. I mean, that's essentially it, but I believe that it goes into the back end at iTunes. I think that a lot of those companies, like if I don't pay TuneCore after five years, my music will go off iTunes.

So they have the control over that, but I've also seen labels go directly to iTunes, not via those things, and go use the back end there. I mean, I don't know. I thought they did store the shit, but I mean, I should probably know that, and I don't know that. But the reality is 30%, I don't care what you call it, it's a duplicate of a digital file that costs nothing to replicate. It is kind of crazy yeah that's why so many artists held out for so long on it but then they had they just buckled and went but i know that there's dirty deals that went down in the back room where like like certain people got better

cuts off that like the beatles i bet you money they're not taking 30 of the beatles but they would never admit to that but dude everything's a dirty deal listen to this shit billboard billboard charts you think about it you're like oh this album's number one on billboard there are certain or admit to that. But dude, everything's a dirty deal. Listen to this shit. Billboard charts, you think about it, you're like, oh, this album's number one on Billboard.

There are certain artists that I've heard about where they've had like sponsorships with like, say Coors Light. And the week their record comes out,

Coors Light buys 300,000 copies of the record so that it goes number one. I mean, it's all rigged financially. It's all rigged by money i mean it's all rigged financially it's all rigged by money so it's like none of it's real the grammys aren't real you know it just it's to me it's all so strange the gig the grammys aren't real yeah none of that's real do you think any of that's real do you like in what way people there are people that charge that are

services that are people that were at one point worked for the grammy organization and they have the email addresses of all the people that they know that vote so they're people that will charge you like five grand to bombard these people with emails all year so that by the time they see the voting sheet they're like oh that fucking person i'll vote for that like there's there's things like that but besides that dude it's like the grammys are a self-contained operation of like the old media like it's it's like clive davis and all those people and they're all like like like a random band from nowhere who nobody's ever heard of is never gonna win a grammy unless they've got money behind them do you know

what i mean so like the Do you know what I mean? So like the whole show, like what I mean, like the billboards are fake and all that shit, all that shit's not real. It's not like, it's not like the fifties where like Muddy Waters puts out something to go straight to the top of the charts and all of a sudden like race music becomes like this big thing. It's not that way anymore. It's all corporate controlled by the 1%.

It's controlled by the biocoms of the world who are putting it on the television, who are deciding who's going to win. Like, Arcade Fire wins a fucking Grammy because they think that, like, you know, everyone feels like it's been too pop-oriented. So let's give one to Arcade Fire this year. And it's like, as much as I want to believe that there are, like, the fans are in any way

involved in these kind of processes, they're totally not. It's just all the marketing. There's fucking five people calling all the radio station programming for the year. There's people buying their way to the top of the, buying Grammys and buying their way to the top of Billboard. It's like if everybody's, if rich people are the only people that have the ability to buy their way in top,

like why would, why would some, why would muddy waters even care? Do you know what I mean? But it's's just the system has changed so much like but that isn't that just the system as far as like the awards and award shows that's I'm saying those kind of things like the accolades that that go along with being a musician like that you know going out and playing a show and having a grassroots thing like that's one thing that's real but like all the accolades

of the billboards and the awards and all that all that stuff is just for show you know what i mean and it's highly manipulated so well it makes sense i mean it don't it totally makes sense i mean why wouldn't they manipulate it if they could manipulate it if it led to financial gain of course if they're scratching each other's backs like you know yeah jave clive davis is gonna make a record and he's gonna give it to the right to the when they go to their bohemian grove little party that they do or whatever they're gonna fucking he's gonna say hey uh i'm gonna send you the new uh you know kanye record or whatever i'm gonna send you the new alicia keys record and his radio stations are gonna fucking you know they're gonna get you know they're not getting payola but they're fucking getting free

trips to disneyland for their whole family and like five other people you know to fucking play like this record that so-and-so's invested in so just to me it's all a kind of a joke and that's probably why i'm not why i'm not a rich man is because i i fucking i mount i spout off about this shit all the time on my radio show too and i'm like like fucking what's your your radio show on? I'm on Sirius, on Sirius XM, on Outlaw Country, Channel 60. Is that the XXX channel? Is that what it is? Oh, it's called Electric Rodeo.

The XXX thing was something where I was trying to actually... It's kind of defunct in a way now. I mean, I still play all those bands, but there was this whole underground country, underground kind of roots blues thing that was happening, and it was getting boxed into this americana shit it was getting real like americana and country and everything there was this real big gap in the middle and there was all these bands that were falling in the gap so i was like i started a

website with that and it was kind of just a play on triple a radio and i was like i don't know i got more heat over it i mean it helped a lot of artists and i know it did because because i'm friends with them and it definitely i i i've now started producing a lot of other people and started working the studio with them more as opposed to promoting them which has been really good but um it was just a way of trying to promote all these really great bands that really just weren't getting any chance but i still play all those bands on my radio show but it's called uh electric rodeo i've been doing like nine years now which is kind of insane but i i don't do it like this i do it on the fly i was

like looking at this and i'm like man it's like i've been doing my show for nine years i was like that i would actually have something to show for it you guys are smarter than i am because you know i do mine on the fly on my laptop like wherever i'm at sometimes i've done on an airplane when i'm flying you know just whenever i gotta get it in by the end of the week so well this thing is i mean we need other people here you know this is like a location to do it from you know but fucking what a great location when the fucking wolf and predator and fucking lava lamps and fucking antlers and this place is insane well we turned it into this we first moved in here it was the opposite it's like a boardroom or something it was just a regular even even the covers over the fluorescent

lights i've never seen that shit before oh they're space yeah yeah man i mean it's the vibe in this room it's like i would never if i were you I would just stay in this room all the time. I would just never leave. The pool table outside. Yeah, it's a good spot. It's a great spot, man. Yeah, I think it's important to have a space where you feel comfortable. You feel like you can just chill out.

It doesn't feel corporate. I think it enhances the conversations in a lot of ways for sure man you know and also it just it's a creepy secret spot it feels like a creepy secret spot it's great man it's great i love it so you think that you doing your radio show and being honest about all these things has held you back well i don't know i mean i do know like one time i said the thing about about the billboard and i i had evidence of this and i'm not gonna say what artist it was because i'm not in the business of doing that but there was this big name artist who had this new record coming out and his sponsor companies

bought 300 000 copies of it first week so they would make sure that it went number one and i said that on the radio and and my boss says and they've he's told me i've got a lot of calls they've called him and they say he's saying this shit and it's told me I've gotten a lot of calls. They call him and they say, he's saying this shit and it's irresponsible because it's not true. And I'm like, yes, it is true. I know it's true. I've seen the paper that said it was true.

But I think they get pissed that I say it. But a lot of people don't like me. They blackballed me a long time ago anyway because I've always been that way, man. To my disadvantage a lot of ways. But if someone's a phony, I hate that more than anything in the world, man.

And you know, there've been times in my life when I was a phony growing up, the girls and things like, so we try to try to get into that, but as you get older and as I've gotten older, it's just, there's so much insincerity in, especially in the music business that I have such a disdain for it.

It's just like, like the way that the writers work i mean what's happened to country music is is directly responsible i mean directly related to like the exact say you know what we're talking about corporate america it's like the same kind of shit it's just it's just gotten to where these corporations are in so much power and they have so much money that it's really hard for like the little man to beat it you know and so i just get really i i see people who pretend to be for the little man or they but yet they're playing this fucking ball game over here and like talking out of both sides of their mouth and it just kills me you know i mean so i'll say it i'll happily say it all day long you know but uh but yeah like i definitely think that that it there there are groups i just found out about a group in nashville but there are groups much

like the bilderberg group where they in music and in movies and things i mean i know everybody knows they kind of have that kind of thing but but there are actual groups where they where they orchestrate kind of who they're going to lend their support to. I mean, they never played me on the radio. It's not like they're going to have a meeting and they'll say, we're going to purposely keep Shooter out. It's not like that. Not that paranoid. where the studio heads and the local community and the Congress and city planners and developers and,

and certain record labels, mostly independent. The independents have kind of chokehold it out. The corporate ones a little bit. They've in a weird way, especially in Nashville, but in the songwriters and the radio people, and they have these retreats that they go on together.

And it's like, duh, like, of course they're all scratching each other's backs. Of course the little guy, they have to pay like 15 grand to join this group to go on these retreats and keep paying. And it's fascinating to me. When people are like,

that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That doesn't happen. It's like, if you think that doesn't happen, then you are dumb. Because of course these people, they want to keep their job they want to stay and they want to keep the money they're making so they'll do anything it takes to keep that position yeah it's unfortunate right that people that are in that sort of a position they're making a shitload of money don't realize like man this is kind of bad for the art form itself yeah to do this like the very art form that we need that we're selling yeah they want

it's the short-term victory that they want and it's like the long-term like people like us you know like i'm a movie fan like i'm a blade runner is my favorite movie of all time but i have a crazy oh man i watched it the other day how many times you watched it i mean hundreds at least i mean i just bought all these prints these posters is that off a philip philip k dick novel yes yeah i do andrew's dream of electric sheep is the name of the book what a great fucking movie man great movie and stands up you know stands up at the end of the movie the original version was harrison's board ford supposed to find out that he's a robot too well that's the kind of the movie, the original version, was Harrison Ford supposed to find out that he's a robot too? Well, that's kind of the point of the book.

It's like the point of the movie a little bit is that. I mean, it's implied in that, especially when at the very end of the movie, Edward James Olmos' character, like he's been leaving his origami all over the place, but he leaves the unicorn. But see, in the original one, I just watched the theatrical one for the first time. I had never seen it, the one where Harrison Ford narrates the film. Oh, that's the original director's cut. No, the director's cut is when he does not. They took his voice off,

and they took the last scene out of the movie where they drive away. That's the only one you've seen up until now. Which one, the director's cut? Yeah. Yeah, because that's the only one you can buy. The minute it was available on DVD, I don't know about VHS, but the minute the DVDs came out, the director's cut saturated the market.

So on Vudu, I was trying to figure out a way when I was traveling on the road in a car to venue to venue, I was trying to figure out a way to... I don't have enough space on my fucking iPhone because the fucking iCloud and the pictures and all this shit, and it's always full, and I don't have enough space on my fucking iPhone cause the fucking iCloud and the pictures and all this shit and it's always full and I didn't want to throw it against the fucking wall, you know, but I, the voodoo app lets me watch movies.

So I was like, Oh, I'm going to watch Blade Runner. And then I pulled it up and it was that, that version, which I had never seen. But then there was a final cut that was made about seven or eight years ago that came out.

And that one has the deleted unicorn scene in it and what what what that is is that i guess that that uh harrison ford's character has some kind of a like there's a unicorn thing in his past in his memory he has a memory of a unicorn and there's a scene where in the movie in the final cut where he shoots that chick that had the snake around her neck when he shoots her there's a shot of this unicorn because it like reminded him of this thing and it's kind of like connecting the dots that he has this weird memory of a unicorn in the woods and at the very end of the film edward james almost makes a unicorn he walks out the front door of his house and there's a unicorn out of origami sitting there and that's like edward james almost saying hey you know we you're actually one too

so that was kind of the implied but the whole thing is like you know if she's one if he's one you know anyone could be one and that was the kind of you know am i a robot are we all robots like you know that's kind of the the ultimate story But it never confirms that. But in the book, they run away together, and she ends up dying, and it's like a love story. And it ends up not mattering if he is one or not. Right. Because, you know. Well, in the real world that we live in right now, that seems like much more likely a possibility than it ever did when Blade Runner came out. Yeah, man.

Like, back then, like like the idea of a robot that looks exactly like a person like yeah yeah yeah might as well be traveling to the moon might as well be fucking you know battlestar galactica or something xenu yeah but now you when you see the the artificial bodies that they're able to create now like these uh robot faces that move and articulate just like a human face. Like really similar. Some of those Japanese ones, they're so similar. Yeah. And you just imagine, what's 100 years from now going to be like?

In like this, the company that hologrammed, the company that made the Tupac hologram and the Michael Jackson one, they reached out to me. And I met the guy yesterday, this guy Gary. And I may be going there. I have to go get my kids from here. And I may be taking them to this guy. Because he's contacted me about wanting to do a Waylon hologram. I think that they're trying to talk about getting a bunch of the guys and making a hologram of Cash and Waylon.

Wow. Who knows? But he wants to give me the demonstration. But I was talking to him about it, and he said, man, you know, the shit on like when it's not lit a certain way like he didn't like the lighting on the michael jackson one he said it wasn't right but he said that when they do it correctly that that uh see it's like with michael jackson they have a body double and then they have this face technology that like that does the face on top of someone else's face.

So it looks right. But you don't really have to do that. It's not CGI people. So they have the ability right now. They have the ability to do the Help Me Obi-Wan. They have one thing that's got these 3D cameras and I can be in that room. He was telling me a story about an indian a guy in india who's running for uh president or whatever their fucking thing is

over there and that that he he he told people he was really rich and he had like three percent of the vote and he set up these things hologram things in like every town and he paid for them to all be over there and said like hey come see me i'm gonna i'm gonna talk to your town and he and he like stood at home in this thing and he appeared in like 50 towns and they didn't even know it was a hologram what he thought he was really there and he never told him so they thought he really came to their fucking shit town where there's nothing to do like you know their little village and it was like this guy and like he said right now like i could go over there and they could have like a hologram thing set up in Japan. And I could like literally walk in front of the cameras and I'd be in Japan and I'd be talking to motherfuckers and totally like help me Obi-Wan.

Save me Obi-Wan or like the fucking Sith Lord guy appearing like talking to Vader. But it doesn't even look like that. He said when it's in a normal room, it looks like you can't tell the difference from a hologram. I will report to you on this after I go to it, after I go see this demonstration. Do you remember when they had that on television for CNN when they were covering the news and Wolf Blitzer would stand in the CNN hologram, the holodeck? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What? Yeah. They experimented with it during elections. You got a video of it Jamie. Hi Let's see the Indian guy. Oh you found it. Yeah That's him So that dude right there is a hologram So he's not really there

Wow So he's not really there. Yeah, he's not there. Wow. How's he appear? It would be dope if he fucking appeared out of smoke. Yeah, they're saying a demonstration they gave. That guy was presenting an award. And he was standing in the room. And this whole family walked in the room.

And he was standing there. And he talked to them. And they were talking to him back and everything. And then he just bust into flames. And they were all freaked out because they thought he was real. Look at this. Look at how he comes in. First of all, how strange.

Let him walk in again, Jamie. Back it up a little bit. Because that guy's got the fakest hand wave ever. I would never vote for that motherfucker. Just by the way. Maybe this is like an Indian thing, but I don't understand. Look at that. They're introducing homeboy. Look.

First of all, he's wearing a dress. What's that all about? Are you a school teacher? You're an old lady school teacher? Oh, man. He's got a theme song, too. Look. Ah, yeah, yeah. Ah, yeah. Dun, dun, dun, dun, man. He's got a theme song, too. Look. That's hilarious. He's fucking waving his hands.

He's wearing white tights and a dress. This guy's a freak. He's a hologram. He's wearing white tights and a dress. He's going to sit down in a chair. A hologram. He's wearing white tights and a dress. He's going to sit down in a chair. A hologram. His white tights and a dress. So bizarre, man. That's so bizarre.

Man, isn't it crazy? I mean, the technology that you can, the fact that you can do that is just like, it's so amazing. Like, I would love to not have to ever do a show, like travel to do a show. Just stand in my fucking. People want you to be there, though. They want you to be there though they want you to be there physically they didn't know yeah but isn't it something about actually knowing that the guy's there yeah of course it's like did you ever hear that band man or astro man no they were a band like in the like early 2000s late 90s but they had they had clone bands they wore masks

they were these hoods so they had like five clone bands they had wore masks they were these hoods so they had like five clone bands and they'd send them out on the road and you would never know if it was the real band or not because they always had the hoods on and shit but they would have like five different bands they would just send out touring oh that's silly yeah you know people didn't know it i know but isn't that like half the thing of course the reason why you pay to see you want the guy to be right there yeah you know like your reputation would be really damaged if they found out that you were actually in your living room the shit fucked up and like it like started fucking up while you're doing it

man that'd be i would be righteous though if i was watching fucking like you know cnn thing yeah see the cnn thing that they did during the... Oh, the Wolf Blitzer. Yeah, they only did it during the elections. And it's like everybody's like, ooh, they're busting out the fucking hologram. This is crazy. Wow. And he would be in another location and they would appear.

They started it with Will.i.am, the guy from the Black Eyed Peas. They started it with him? And then they used it with him. They used it, it was at an Obama event? It wasn't at a, John McCain didn't pull out the... The CNN reporters did it. Let's see, like there.

Pull it back so you can see him appear. That's fascinating. Look at that. Let's make it look as much like Star Trek as we can, the appearing process. How weird is that? Via hologram performer and obama supporter looks like basically like exactly like in uh in star trek when they would beam people down that's what it looks like right here yeah but yeah but this is it's a beautiful time here

um in chicago it's a beautiful time in los angeles my mom what's the purpose of this just to show off the technology yeah well to just off the technology. Yeah. Well, just an added element. They did it with Wolf Blitzer. I remember he was a hologram, too. Isn't it funny, though, too, listening to that guy? It's a beautiful time. Everything's amazing.

Cut to everybody fucking hates him. Yeah, right. Six years later. Right. You fucking piece of shit. All of you, you fuckheads. Even Will.i.am, right? Didn't he run for

He was going to be the president of Haiti Or some shit like that No, no, no Oh, that was the other guy The guy from I confused Will.i.am with The Fugees What's his name?

Wyclef Jean Wyclef Jean They're the same guy to me Yeah, I was about to make that joke About it being Wyclef Jean And then you said it. Yeah, it was this broad. CNN reporter.

Another one. It's like she's some chick that Will.i.am was banging like 20 minutes before. Did you hear the guy, all the controversy about the dude who Baba Booeyed? No, no, no, he didn't Baba Booey it. The MSNBC thing recently, the Howard Stern thing. No. What happened? MSNBC.

Do you know what I'm talking about? There's this guy. There was a guy who, I'm trying to remember his whack pack name on there, but he had gone into retirement from doing prank calls. Well, one day recently, they were talking about the Malaysia air thing and this guy calls in and they're like we've got this soldier from the war on the phone and he goes yes I believe I saw something I said you know I saw I was driving and I looked out of my passenger I saw something I believe

it was a giant burst of wind from Howard Stern's ass that hit the Malaysia plane and all of a sudden like like the lady's like, excuse me. She's like, so can you tell me what you, like, she starts to, and he goes, are you guys,

you boy, you're fucking dumb. Aren't you? To the girl. And they like cut the transmission. And there was like, he, and he turns out,

he wrote an email to Howard Stern's people. He said, this is how I got in there. He said, he called and he said that he was a, he was a soldier in the air force or something. And they put him on the phone with another guy who then was trying to quiz him on him being legit.

And he totally said he bullshitted his way all the way through it. The guy led him through. They led him on fucking MSNBC in this moment. And this chick, her name was Crystal Ball, was the name of the chick. Reason why I can remember it. And she was just like, you know, had no idea what to do with that. When the guy said, fucking, a burst of wind from Howard Stern's ass is what hit it.

Like, you know, MSNBC, like, is in all this trouble. Because, like, no one was paying attention while it went down for so long for a couple minutes. And then they cut it. And it was like, man, everyone got fired. Because it was like, I mean, not only did he get through, but they didn't even catch that he said Howard Stern's ass for a long time. Well, when you're doing those things, those remotes, you have an earpiece in. And a lot of times it's hard to understand what the fuck anybody's saying. And there's a bit of a delay between them saying it and you hearing it.

Crystal Ball, I can forgive her. and you hearing it. Crystal Ball, I can forgive her. But the guy sitting over there watching the fucking broadcast or supposedly watching the broadcast when it goes down and editing on the fly and all that, that guy should have been like,

uh, cut it. You know, cut it now. But I don't know. Do you remember the Some Ting Wong when the plane crashed? Oh, yeah, that was another one. Four different names and they all got fired

because some editor fucked up and they said it on air. Yeah, so there's was another one. Four different names, and they all got fired because some editor fucked up. Yeah, so there's something wrong. Did you see that? Yeah. There was something recently. The New York Daily News let some fake story go through and didn't do any fact-checking. It was all over the news.

I forget what New York Daily News hoaxed. That's funny man they they all are it happens all the time yeah people are trying so hard you know it's like when fake news comes through that's like the most real thing we're getting yeah well you know we live in strange times where anybody can get information out. Yeah. But especially with these legacy media places like that, like news, like we're getting someone who's live on the scene, and those are targets for people fucking with people. Yeah. It's like because you know that everyone's looking at this,

everyone's paying attention to this. If you can get on there and baba-booey it, you'll definitely get some play on the radio show. Yeah. So people will do things like that i don't know harris jones penis yeah it's uh we're we're in weird times when it comes to that we're also in weird times when it comes to those things being relevant at all because at a certain point in time you gotta people they're realizing that more people are paying attention to online sources than they are. Facebook, Twitter, all the above. There's so many different things.

It's like nightly news. I mean, I'll watch. I do. I will say if I'm cruising the channels and I'm home and the 5, 6 o'clock news is on, I'll turn it on because locally to LA, if there's anything going on, I'll kind of be interested in that. But otherwise, who watches the news on like channel two yeah i mean who watches fucking seem the only reason why they watch cnn is because of you know it'll be something massive has happened and people want to tune in and like watch it 24 7 otherwise it's like you don't really it's going away it's going away

slowly but surely and also the format is so bizarre. Like the evening news, like the Los Angeles evening news, those are the fakest broadcasts in the world. The way everyone talks is fake. You don't see any personality. You don't have any connection to those people. If you had someone like Shooter Jennings reads the news, like, man, some shit went down today. And you start, people would to that yeah in a way like

oh this is a real guy and he's telling me about some real stuff but if you watch the average broadcast that's on a local news show they're so it's so fake yeah and it's so like uptight and weird yeah and it's just the same garbage dump to you like it's not updated that's why people like you know i don't like i look at my twitter feed for that like if i hear something's going on or if i like you know if i see something like it's like the culmination of all the people i follow kind of provide the correct information do you know what i mean that seems more effective to me yeah and even then you still have to process stuff there's so much bullshit it's so difficult

to figure out what's right and what's wrong and and then when you have disinformation thrown into the mix i mean it's been proven that government organizations will when there's something bad goes down they'll throw a bunch of wacky shit into the news as well to sort of counterbalance like there's a lot of people out there that believe that a lot of the conspiracy theorists that like to say the most ridiculous shit that they're they're being hired to say yeah yeah ridiculous shit because it makes all conspiracies conspiracies sound silly yeah yeah of course I believe that a hundred percent I believe that there's misinformation agents all over the place manly P Hall was one who in the manly P

Hall famous writer. Wrote a lot of books about a lot of conspiracy type thing. And he was a straight up disinformation agent for the Masons. Yeah, he was out there trying to cloud up the religion side of things for the Masons via the conspiracy world. And Manly P. Hall is famous. And a lot of people swear by his shit. But he really a mason and he was like in bed with that what did they ever figure that william uh what's the guy who wrote behold a pale horse man we could talk about this guy a lot have you bill cooper yeah man i i love his shit dude and did you but he

wrote a lot of really nutty shit about like alien bases on the moon. Yeah, he got into some shit like that in there. But man, did you ever listen to his radio show? No. You can download every episode of it. I've been in contact with his estate because I'm trying to take... The Hour of the Time is the name of the show. Every single episode. You know he was killed on the 5th of November 2001?

Was he? He was in the U.S. Marshals. Wasn't he in a gunfight? He said on the air, he was killed on the 5th of November in 2001? Was he? Wasn't he like in a gunfight? He said on the air, he was like, look, because Bill Clinton labeled him the most dangerous person on the radio. And he said, they're going to come after me. And he goes, and I bet you money that they're going to use the IRS as the reason. And so they did. So he moved his family away, and they came after him for tax evasion.

so they did they they had so he moved his family away and they came after him for tax evasion and and when he wouldn't comply they sent the u.s marshals in there and uh and they shot at him and he shot one of them and they killed him really yeah but he's man that story that dude is very fascinating because he is the real life like like dude i mean the in my then black ribbons record the stephen king character gets killed and everything the end i mean he's the real life character of that like this guy was out there and his radio show was awesome and he was just like telling you like the first person talking about the boberberg group the first person talking about all these people and just laying it out there no matter what it who it pissed off and eventually it pissed off enough people to get him killed but he but he uh he's very

fascinating and in the hour of the time i wanted to take the first episode of it and print it on a 12 inch vinyl because it's just long enough i wanted to put music under it and and and and make a record on a record label and i was trying to get the family to let me do that but they were interested but then they kind of disappeared on me have you ever looked into william cooper debunked They were interested, but then they kind of disappeared on me. Have you ever looked into William Cooper debunked? I've looked into some of that stuff. But, I mean, see, to me, William Cooper, I mean, obviously he was hitting on some pretty harsh things if he was killed by the United States government.

Or maybe he owed a lot of taxes and he got in a shootout with the federal marshals who came to arrest him. Is that possible, too? Yeah. with the federal marshals who came to arrest him is that possible too yeah but i but if you if you got if you listen to his show he's very sane he's not he doesn't he's he seems he's very collected he's very smart very educated like it'd be one thing if he was like full of but he's not like his if you listen to his show he his show, he was very wise to things. And he was saying a lot of shit that would piss a lot of people off. And I know for a fact a lot of it was true. I read his book, and halfway in the book I was like, bitch.

And I tossed it across the room. Behold the Pale Horse? Yeah, yeah. There was some wacky shit in there. If you go to Rational Wiki, he believed that UFO people were controlling the world, that UFO technology had been used in Vietnam. He became one of the stars in the UFO lecture circuit, writing books that alleged that space aliens were part of the New World Order. He later believed that he had been tricked into believing in aliens, and it was all part of an Illuminati plot, including the JFK assassination and the fake moon landings.

Yeah, he... You know about the Kubrick moon landing thing, right? What about it? About how there's a theory that the U.S. government wanted... The technology that he developed during Dr. Strangelove and he used in 2001 for the monkeys and the backgrounds and the way he shot that stuff, that they came to him to film them to fake the

moon landings yeah i've heard that they said they would fund they would give him unlimited access to the to nasa and everything for 2001 and fund every film forever and so that supposedly like he was hinting at a lot of it in 2001 and in eyes wide shut especially in eyes wide shut that he was hinting to like what he'd done in the movie a lot. Well, there's documentaries that show all the secret symbolism that he put into The Shining. That movie's terrible

because, see, I had studied all that shit, man, and it's so true. There's such cool shit in it. And that movie was like, they were interviewing the craziest people on the planet Earth

with no frame of reference to what they were talking about. And when you watch that movie, it's like did it sounds like they're crazy it sounds like everything about the movie is bullshit because these people who are talking are clearly insane and but the people who who like actually did the research before those kooks are the people that it was kind of fascinating about but i'm a big kubrick nerd anyway so kubrick was definitely a genius definitely a fascinating guy if anybody was capable of faking anything remotely resembling it. You've got to read it.

Reality Sandwich is a website. Reality Sandwich. There's an article. Yeah, I've read that. I've read that. Yeah. I'm not convinced, but I'm fascinated. I'm not convinced.

I'm not convinced about any of it, to be honest. I'm not convinced about the moon landing. I'm not convinced about this. I don't know. You ever heard Bill Clinton's take on the moon landing? No. This is one of the best bill clinton uh wrote this book called my life and uh in his book my life he had a a whole quote about um about the moon here i'll pull it up oh i know my life book uh this is uh this is the quote he wrote his quote, he wrote about when he was young and he had seen the moon landing. He goes, this is, I forget what page it is.

It just says, just a month before Apollo 11 astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong had left their colleague Michael Collins aboard Starship Columbia and walked on the moon, beating by five months President Kennedy's goal of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade. The old carpenter asked me if I believed that it happened. I said, sure. I saw it on television. He disagreed. He said that he didn't believe it for a minute and that them television fellers, in quote, could make things look real that weren't. Back then, I thought he was a crank. During my eight years in Washington,

I saw some things on TV that made me wonder if he wasn't ahead of his time. That's fucking crazy. That's crazy that a president of the United States would say, I saw some things on television during my time in Washington that make me wonder if he wasn't ahead of his time, specifically talking about a guy claiming that the moon landings were fake. See, I could totally buy it, too,

because of the fact that, especially then and where technology is, I mean, look at us now. We haven't gone back, and we've sent a rover to mars but we have not the rovers are easy the real thing is biological life in space that's the really difficult thing because of the radiation because of the solar flares because of all sorts of micrometeors there's all sorts of things that can happen to someone when they're outside yeah you know you're you're out there in space you're not protected by the environment you're not protected by the atmosphere so there's no no protection from like micrometeors asteroidal impacts like all the different things like when you see shooting stars

those are fucking rocks that were in space that made their way down to earth but they get eaten up in the atmosphere and they burn out yeah i mean the radiation is the big one i mean here's the thing i think that we're gonna know and i tell you when we're gonna know is is these independent contractors are trying to get to the moon google being one of them when someone else acts someone else besides the government goes to the moon i don't mean the russian government right around the same time like if someone independent goes to the moon and it looks way different than it did when they did it in the 60s you know and it's like oh like really don't float when we walk here you know i mean like then we'll know you know there's there's a lot of fucking things about that there's if you know on that one website with the kubrick thing they like

do this contrast thing where it kind of compares the 2001 monkey scenes to the, yeah, well that was, they were comparing a style of filming calling, I think it was called front screen projection. Yeah. Yeah. Something along those lines. That's exactly what it is.

Front screen or rear screen or whatever it is. It's he, he had a, it's like a two way mirror and there's these certain kinds of beads and there's the projection coming from a different angle. And it was able to, like you were able to film the actors on the stage at the same time as the background

instead of adding it later, so that's why it looks real. Yeah, the reality sandwich title is How Kubrick Faked the Moon Landing. Yeah. You know, I think, I don't know if this is, I believed in it wholeheartedly for a long time and this reality sandwich article shows I think, I don't know if this is, I believed in it wholeheartedly for a long time.

And this Reality Sandwich article shows the use of this front screen projection method and how it mimics, I think that's what it's called, how it mimics what the shots looked like from the moon landings. The real issue with the moon landings is how few, if you stop and think about between 1969 and 1972 yeah that that's when all these took place and that no one has been more than 400 miles above the earth's surface since then yeah that's what i'm saying that's what i'm saying that's what seems so so ridiculous to me not only that how about when neil armstrong he's uh there's a 20th anniversary of the moon landing uh for nasa and uh he he gives a speech or 25th anniversary i think it was yeah that's what it was and he gives this speech uh at the white house and his words were there are great ideas undiscovered breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers. That's the quote that he gives. He's speaking to America's honor students, like all the high school students that get

the best grades in science and math and all these different things, and they're all there listening to this guy who was the first man on the moon talk, and this is the thing he says. There are great ideas, undiscovered breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth protective layers. Yeah. What the fuck does that mean? God. That's between him and Clinton.

It's almost like if the moon landings were real, like they're clearly fucking with everybody. Yeah. Begging for people to read into it. Yeah. But if it wasn't real, it's almost like poetic how they're dropping these truths. It's almost like poetic how they're dropping these truths. Yeah, that was how with Kubrick, like they said that in a lot of the films, like he was dropping the guilt of the fact that he did this thing and that he was trying to admit it in a lot of the films.

It is pretty crazy that the last time people went was 1972. Yeah, and we haven haven't come fucking close since then not only have we not come close we've never gone further than 400 miles that's that's the thing about every single space shuttle mission every space station mission everything is inside of 400 miles from the earth's surface except the apollo missions all those were 260 000 miles and back you know so it's it's hard to believe it is hard to believe and i mean it's like you're like yeah no one's ever gonna make it to the moon they're never gonna prove it we'll be all be dead by the time they do anyways who cares the big mind fuck for me is when you look at the moon itself like you're sitting at home and you look up you see the moon

you're like bitch nobody went there yeah you're like, bitch, nobody went there. Yeah, you're like, you did not. No way. Look at that shit. That's bullshit. But we know that they did go to space. So if they go to, I mean, I couldn't believe they could go to space in a fucking rocket from 1969.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Look, I love sexy ideas. And the big sexy idea is that they didn't go, that they faked it all, and they somehow or another kept it from the American people. That's the big sexy idea.

That's the fun one. That's the fun version. It's also that that time was just so filled with bullshit. That was the time of the Nixon administration, Watergate, and fucking, I mean, that was just lying. The Gulf of Tonkin incident. They'd already faked. They got us into Vietnam with a fake fucking attack yeah i mean that's wild widely accepted now that the gulf of tonkin incident false flag yeah didn't really happen and that's that caused more than a million deaths

yeah they got us into i mean that's way crazier than the idea of just faking a trip yeah it's planet you're so right man and you know as time goes on like these things do get exposed way crazier than the idea of just faking a trip to a nearby planet. It's true, man. You're so right, man. And, you know, as time goes on, like, these things do get exposed. That would be a motherfucker of a mindfuck, though, if they did find out that it really was all bullshit, that no one did land on the moon. Yeah.

Like, what if everything was true? All the conspiracy shit was true. You know what I mean? Like, you just start finding that shit out. I mean, look, man. What's his name? Virgin Galactic. If you can pay in Bitcoin to get on a fucking trip to space right now, like, take me to the moon.

Yeah, that's too far. They can't really do that. Did you ever hear about the fake moon rock that was given to Holland by Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin? No, it was fake? Yeah. Pull it up. It's kind of interesting, Jamie. Wait a minute. There was a moon rock that was given to the Dutch prime minister by the Apollo 11 astronauts. And once they examined it, like many, many years later, they were doing it for, I believe it was for an insurance investigation. And it was actually just petrified wood. Really?

Yeah. It was attached to a plaque that said it was there from Apollo 11 and Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin taking this from the moon. And this is the piece. And they said, and Buzz Aldrin and Neil said, yeah, this is really for the moon. Oh, yeah, that's what it said on the plaque. They lied. Well, you know, whoever gave them the rock,

I mean, I don't know if the actual rock was handed to them by Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, but it was supposedly a rock that was given to the Dutch prime minister from the Apollo 11 astronauts in 1969. And it was fake. Wow. Yeah. It was during a global tour.

It was given to them 50 years. Okay. them um 50 years uh okay it says the rock was given to william drees a former dutch leader during a global tour by neil armstrong michael collins and buzz aldrin following their moon mission yeah the rock was then donated to a museum uh after the dutch Prime Minister's death in 1988. And so then after that, I guess, they decided to test it. And when they tested it, they found out that it was actually just petrified wood.

So fucking dumb. Yeah. I mean, who knows? Maybe it's just like, fuck this guy. Maybe we did go to the moon, but rocks are valuable. This guy's the Dutch prime minister. You got some shit that looks like a moon rock?

Yeah. It's a symbolic gesture. Either way, if Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong were in the know, then the moon landing is faked. I mean, that's just it. Well, who knows if they were in the know. But if they weren't in the know then the moon landing is faked i mean that's just who knows if they were in the know but if they weren't in the know then then even further if they were look dude if you and i walked on the moon together and it was just the two of us and we came back we're the only two humans that walked on the fucking moon first of all wouldn't you think that we would like look

around and be like man look at this shit i mean you don't think we would be like la la whatever it's a moon there's another place so by the time you get to this somebody hands you a fucking piece of wood this petrified wood and says hey this is from your moon trip first of all neither one of you picked it up and brought it back because you know that second of all like wouldn't you think we would know that it's not especially if our whole life was meant to get to this point and somebody hands you this rock that you're supposed to give to someone that is a moon rock. Don't you think that... I'm not a geologist, so I could never even speculate whether or not I'd be able to tell where a rock came from. Well, you'd know for sure that you didn't pick it up and bring it back.

Maybe, but maybe it looks a lot like a rock that you brought back and you'd think it was. I don't know what the a moon rock actually looks pull up a real moon rock let's let's look we just saw that image is a real moon rock well they definitely got moon rocks that came from asteroidal impacts and that was actually one of the big points of contention because werner uh von braun who was a nazi a straight up nazi ladies and gentlemen that's a real moon rock wow it looks like an asteroid it looks like it came from uh from space that's that's the the thing about um uh the werner herzog thing werner von braun rather uh werner von braun was in antarctica in 1969 before the actual or 67 one One of those. Before the actual

moon landings took place collecting asteroids. They had gone to Antarctica because Antarctica is one of the places where they could be assured that a lot of the asteroids that had landed there for whatever reason they knew were from the moon themselves.

So they collected a lot of these to examine them. Interesting. Yeah, this a lot of these to examine them. Interesting. Yeah, this picture is of Wernher von Braun in Antarctica. He had a broken arm at the time. I don't know what happened to him. Maybe he was thinking about not faking the moon. They beat the fuck up. Yeah, that's insane.

There's missing moon rocks. And they're worth a lot of money on the black market. Yeah, I would imagine. Fucking moon rock. Goodwill moon rocks, and they're worth a lot of money on the black market. Yeah, I would imagine. Fucking moon rock. Goodwill moon rocks is what it's called. You could have a moon rock in your house. Five million, that's all. People come over, they'd think you're the shit.

Man. Well, there's a whole black market for stolen art because there's a lot of people that just don't give a fuck. They just want that art, whether it's stolen or not stolen you know they just they just want that art they could hide it and you know have people come over and bring them to their secret lair look this is from egypt yeah this is some shit they stole during the iraq oh that's all of a sudden it's like reagan reagan and the wolf up there that was fun we're uh we're running out of time here in 10 minutes we turn into a pumpkin oh yeah yeah we just did three hours like that not fast man it's it's great doing this i see why it like zooms by it's just fun just to talk yeah and yeah i mean that's you've got the skill of being being like it your mind is is alive so it's like when you talk to you it's like it just

it just rolls it's like seamless information flying all over the place from you know back and forth i think we started talking about scientology and did not take one breath and got all the way to the faked moon landing and well there's so much to talk about you know that's the thing the beautiful thing about this world today is there's so much goddamn information yeah it's constantly coming at you and you can't pay attention to all of it if you do you'll go mad like i one thing I've get done to myself lately is force myself to stay offline for like many many hour days at a time I mean I mean I would be happy not to I'm happy to throw my phone aside because I like I run my own business I run the record label that we do with my manager and like like I

was packing like Sunday night me and like like i was packing like sunday night me and my wife were literally packing all the pre-orders of like our vinyl that we did in boxes and shipping them and shit and we've set up a warehouse and we've done all this shit so like i'm stressed out all the fucking time and i'm in the studio all the time and i've got my kids all the time so when i get my kids i like love throwing my phone aside but i would be real bummed if i didn't have like didn't have no if i wasn't able to get on the internet because like part of my favorite my non-stress time is is uh there's a game called combat arms it's like a free like first person shooter game that like online only that me and

my manager and buddies we go in there and play and kill each other and like do that kind of stuff or like i sit on irc and talk about shit or like irc dude you're a serious geek yeah i'm on you go on irc all the time i'm on there right i mean i'm i you know sit on there all the time but i go on that yeah late at night i'll go on the bitcoin channels uh on the free node thing which is their their certain kind of communication server and talk to a lot of developer guys and stuff. I'm like, yeah, man. It's like, that's my favorite thing to do.

I don't do Facebook. You don't? Nah. I mean, I have an official page, but I don't use it. I don't do it socially. I'll do Twitter. I always liked Twitter because it's kind of like a one-way thing in a weird way. I always liked that communication better, kind of like a one-way thing in a weird way. I always liked that communication better.

But then I got a little overwhelmed by it. I used to be on it all the time. And I used to do shit all the time. And kind of like when I went through my split up with my last ex or whatever, it just got really complicated. All of a sudden there was like factions of people and there were people commenting and there were things that were just became kind of like weird in public. And so after that I kind of backed it off a little bit,

but yeah, if you go through something in public and everything like is subject to other people's criticisms and evaluations with or without any information whatsoever. And then you watch it all play out. You're like, what? Yeah. I see it right around that time.

I had just started to creep into facebook and started to enjoy it i was like posting pictures of like skeletor and shit that i was into you know all day long my friends and i'm like keeping up with my friends for the first time i'm like oh this is kind of cool and then all like this wave of negativity hit me i'm like fuck that thing i threw it away you know i mean so i've never done facebook since and then and then uh twitter twitter i kind of i backed off a little bit on but you know but but i i like it a lot better like i think i definitely think it's it's more my speed but like you know if i had it my way everybody'd be an irc what i like about twitter is retweeting shit i like people send me interesting stuff then i can send it to other people and that motivates people to send me more interesting stuff.

And so then you've got this constant network of interesting stories coming your way. Yes, that's very true. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of dumb shit and gossip and stuff that people get caught up in it, but that's just human beings, man. Human beings love stupid shit. Yeah, they like to be assholes, you know, and just say shit.

Yeah, and just to fuck with you, to see if they could get a rise out of you, just to get you to react, just so that they be assholes you know and just oh yeah and just to fuck with you to see if they could get a rise out of you just to get you to react just so that they know that you know shooter jennings is a real person on the other end of that yeah that's why i like to keep it where they think i'm not real just kidding like i don't react no you know it's funny like ricky rackman is a buddy of mine and he was telling me that he's like it's funny that people write you nice shit all day long and you never replied to it but like one guy says right right right fuck you dude that's why they do it you know it's like that's what people there's there's many many people like

sometimes someone i never go back and forth with people i just i used to it's stupid it's a waste of energy but i will go online and read something If someone says something rude, then I'll go look at their profile. And I'll see. Even if they don't say something rude to me, I'll go to see if they say rude things to other people. And you find out that their whole profile is just insults. Just doing that. Like, hey, asshole. Yeah, I found that out too.

One time I said something. I said that I tweet. Actually, this is kind of when I backed off of Twitter. I tweet this was actually this is kind of when I backed off of Twitter I tweeted something about John Mayer being a giant douche because I thought that like he he like all of a sudden like was like all Hollywood and he was all played out of Hollywood and then all of a sudden he buys this place in Montana and he got a poncho and starts growing his hair out and wearing a cowboy hat and doing all that shit I was like give me a fucking break but he's still hanging out at the fucking Chateau in Vermont but he's like putting this image forward.

And I was like, phony, more of the phony shit. So I just called him out on it. And like TMZ like put it. I remember it was Halloween of 2012. I'll never forget it. Because TMZ fucking puts that shit everywhere. And all of a sudden I'm getting calls from like my brother and my brother and like my family they're seeing it on like the yahoo page like the tmz like which says this thing about how i called him a king douche and all that and dude all of a sudden i had i'm looking at my twitter

and it says i've got like lots of mentions and the number just keep going up and i like and like it was like 15,000 15 year olds telling me what a piece of shit I was. And I was like, nobody. And I was doing this shit for attention. I mean, I've never seen. So I just started retweeting all of them. Just constantly retweeting all these people telling me what a piece of shit I was. But after that, I was like, man. I mean, it just scared me to death.

I was like, that's not worth it. Do you know John Mayer? No, I've never met him. Is it possible that he just found out that having a place in Montana is pretty cool? Probably. Are you friends with him? I don't know him, no. I heard he's a nice guy, though.

He hangs out at the comedy store sometimes. He's actually done stand-up. I know. It's easy to call him a douche. First of all, he's way too pretty. I know some girls that are friends of mine that have been real fucked by him in town. Some guys, you know, you're going to fuck their friend and then like, he's a douchebag. So I've kind of gotten some wind of him that way.

But isn't there two sides to that too? I am sure. It's impossible that those girls are annoying and they hooked up with him and he was like, you know what, I can't deal with you anymore. The lesson is don't shit talk somebody before you know the truth. She was like, fuck John Mayer. He's an asshole. But meanwhile, he just got bored.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't like them. Maybe they're annoying You know the same type of girls are going ratting him out and saying these you know crazy things about him Those are also the same type of girls. It would be annoying if you were John Mayer and you were dating that girl, right? Right Yeah, it's easy. I mean he's too pretty you can say that but you could also say like man I really don't like his music. That's true. And I really didn't like it.

His version of Free Fall On, which was like all these like 12 year old kids think John Mayer wrote this song. And then and so I had I already had issues. And I'm sure that there are people that have the same kind of issues with me. But it is kind of a well-known fact that John Mayer is a douchebag. I mean, I can guarantee that it's kind of not news. I don't know the guy. I don't either. I would reserve judgment until I meet a person.

See, that makes you a better man than I in this situation because I did not reserve judgment. I'm reading this Rolling Stone article, and my blood is boiling. Because he bought a ranch in Montana. Just because he's putting forth this, he calls himself the new Neil Young in the article. He says, I'm this generation's Neil Young or something like that.

And I was like, that's what flipped the switch for me. I was like, fuck you and your fucking body is a wonderland. Fuck you. That's what it was. I mean, it's like, you know, don't say that. Don't say, he said, if I'm this generation's Neil Young, then Nora Jones is this generation's, like, I don't know who he is. Jazz Joplin?

It was something so like that doesn't work. It was like something even worse that he said. But, I mean, just to say that just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm a huge Neil Young fan. I am as well. You've got a lot to learn before you're going to be Neil Young, John Mayer. I worked at a concert. Before I was a comedian, I worked as a security guard at Great Woods.

Great Woods is this place in Mansfield, Massachusetts that has these concerts. And the Neil Young show was the last one I ever worked. I was like, this is too fucking crazy. I was like, I've got to get out. Because I thought I was going to get killed. Like somebody was going to get killed. Yeah, it was madness. Because the way Great Woods works is there's a covered area and then there's a back area that's like a lawn.

And all the security people were assigned to stop people from bringing in booze. Like they'd bring in bottles of wine and stuff like that bottles of whiskey and also uh to keep keep order like when shit would go haywire well the lawn the thing about the lawn was there's no assigned seating so everybody just sat wherever they wanted to on the lawn well people just started fires and during the neil young concert they had to shut the concert down because the lawn was on fire like people would just and then fights broke out and i wanted i had a security jacket on and i covered my security jacket or i turned it inside out i remember what i did but i was like fuck this job zipped it up and i'm like i'm a normal person now and i got the fuck out of there i remember i go i don't even know if i got paid for the last

day of work i don't know if i punched out i don't remember shit but i remember saying to myself very i was probably 19 at the time it was a long time ago but i remember saying this is the last day of work. I don't know if I punched out. I don't remember shit, but I remember saying to myself, I was probably 19 at the time. It was a long time ago, but I remember saying, this is the last day I work as a security guard, and it was the Neil Young show. Wow.

Because it was just so crazy. There was fights breaking out, and fucking bottles were flying, and fire, and it was like, this is, what was I getting paid, like 10 bucks an hour or something stupid back then? It was this is not worth it but it was cool that it was Neil Young yeah at least go out with a bang go out with Neil Young

and that's like you know yeah Neil Young's the shit you know he lives up in Northern California he's got a giant ranch ranch makes his own diesel yeah and he's got like what he made that he made that new iPod thing he's trying to sell. Yeah, what is it? It's his own version of an MP3 player, right? Yeah, I don't know how you can jump in that game. That seems to me like it always seems like a poor business decision to try it. Because if he's not making a phone, you're not going to beat the iPod.

Nobody buys iPods. They buy phones that have music on them now i mean there's no yeah it's called a puyo or a yeah it's called pono pono it's like yeah yeah i mean look i think it's awesome technology that he's got some shit where it's like the audio quality is way better but i mean you're jumping in that's like saying is that what the idea is the audio quality is a lot better yeah is it have you ever tried it jamie i haven't tried it but i know that's they're trying to sell to audiophiles and that's the idea but no one's listening the music isn't made for it they're mastering for digital quality for itunes so you have to remaster everything it's it's it's kind of weird i mean it seems like a losing game

to jump into but yeah although you know a guy like him like i mean they they they crowdfunded it yeah that's the weird thing right is that it's crowdfunded but can you play stuff from your yeah can you transfer stuff from your apple from itunes to that will it sound better will it play like they say yes ideally yeah how much better will it sound though you a lot of time you're listening to it through shitty ass fucking it's supposed to make itunes stuff sound better i don't believe that quote unquote that's what they've got some crazy algorithm and that's what is going on inside really yeah but i mean you start getting into art this sounds better versus this sounds better yeah it does but i don't like it do you like it you like it i don't like it okay well let's just move on to tomorrow

because yes it's a silly argument yeah but they're pointing out in this article about it that it doesn't mean jack shit if you don't have really good headphones behind it. You know? Right. It's kind of interesting. Well, what's interesting is that, like, see if people react to this and they up the sound quality for phones. Video just died. Video just died? Yeah.

Well, we ran out of time? Yeah, just a heads up. Oh, all right. Well, that's it, ladies and gentlemen. This podcast is over. The people on iTunes can get another couple of minutes. Thanks to our sponsors. Thanks to MeUndies.

Go to MeUndies.com forward slash Rogan and get 20% off your first order. Do that by September 1st. So MeUndies.com forward slash Rogan. Thanks also to Audible. Go to audible.com forward slash Joe. Get one free audio book and 30 free days of Audible service. Thanks also to onnit.com. That is O-N-N-I-T.

Use the code word Rogan and save yourself 10% off any and all supplements. Shooter Jennings. This was fun, man. We got to do this more often. Great, man. Do it again. I would love it. Anytime you want.

I've got a stack of vinyls for you that I forgot to bring. Bring in the vinyls. Next time you come, whatever, man. We'll figure something out. Thank you very much, brother. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me on the air, man. See you guys.

Dude, that was fun. Zoom bye. It did. Zoom bye. I want to do DMT, man was fun. Zoom bot. It did. Zoom bot. I want to do DMT, man. Okay. That's all I can think about since we had that conversation.