The Joe Rogan Experience - #548 - Tim Burnett

Episode Date: September 11, 2014

Tim Burnett is a hunter, adventurer, and videographer. He can be seen hunting all over the world on "Solo Hunter" on the Outdoor Channel.

The Joe Rogan Experience. Showing by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. So, over the last couple years, I've really gotten into hunting. I went on my first hunting trip with Steve Rinella and started watching a lot of hunting TV shows. I've kind of always watched a lot of them, but your show really stood out. And this is a show, you guys on the Outdoor Channel? Outdoor Channel. Outdoor Channel.

Outdoor Channel, it's called Solo Hunter. And you go out there, you and I've seen the ones with Remy Warren as well, and by yourself, just bring cameras, go to these remote locations, hike in, set up the cameras. And you're using your own cameras. You're like setting up the shots and you're using your own cameras you're like setting up the shots while you're aiming like you're getting ready to shoot the animals and you're setting everything like you've got like crank little little handheld things here and gopros and it's got to make it very difficult yeah it's annoying it's a pain to not just get out there and and you know hunting is difficult enough creeping up on animals stalking

getting into position is difficult enough but i would imagine that being your own cameraman makes it i mean what's the 50 50 harder 100 harder uh you know the hunting part of it it's the same you're still hunting and actually it makes me a better hunter because i find that i'm a lot more uh patient and a lot more relaxed about it and more deliberate in my hunting. So it's not just like, Oh, I got a rifle. Like all I got to do is get within 400 yards. It's like, no, I got a rifle and I got a camera and I got this. So I feel like I hunt better, but the actual success rate of killing and getting it on film and that kind of thing, it's, it's a lot harder. Yeah. Is it like, would you say like you're like half as successful this way no i mean no i don't think it's affected my success rate on on actually harvesting an animal but it just makes

it more difficult it makes it more difficult to do and it's it's it's uh it's a it's a hassle it's not a hassle i mean it's what i do but it's like it's hard it makes it to where it's not just a hunt anymore it's a hunt that I'm trying to document and then now when you when you look at it and you're trying to actually produce something good that people are going to want to watch instead of instead of whatever then you're putting more thought into producing it than you are the hunting part of it and then it's like well crap now I'm not a very good hunter because I'm a good producer so you have this constant dilemma you can tell I'm already tore up about it but it's like you have this constant back and forth between yourself it's like screw it today i'm just gonna

hunt man i'm not gonna touch a camera and then halfway through the day i'm like miserable because nothing's going on i'm like i don't even have anything to show for it well it's stupid turn on the cameras you'll have something to show for it so right do you um it's kind of it's a tricky way to to do a television show And you do all the producing yourself? Do you do all the film editing a lot, Jazz? Yeah, I do all the editing. That's just kind of my thing for it. And I like it because I can get more emotionally invested into it.

I feel like it can come out different. But I'm not the best editor out there. I'm just the one that happens to edit that show because I'm the low-budget guy. And when I started out, it wasn't even ready. It wasn't time yet. How long have you been doing it now? So Solo Hunter went to air in October of 2010, but I had done TV since 2004, you know, in kind of random ways in that, but we had the guys that I was partners with, we hired a producer that was doing all the editing and me and Jeff, we'd be in the studio just all day and all night, just hammering out with this, with this producer. And at the end of the day, we weren't a hundred percent happy with what we were getting. So when we split up

and I went my own route, I was like, you know, the only way I'm going to do this and make money and, uh, and do it right is I got to learn editing. So I bought, I mean, I bought a computer and just totally self-taught myself how to edit and i started cranking out some just some videos online and everything and that's kind of how i got into it and got more involved into the tv side of it so you do use like final cut pro or something like that yeah in fact i'm today i'm still using the same exact system that i bought 10 years ago that same exact system really it's changed just a few updates that's it yeah i'm using final cut 7 you know old school i don't know what the numbers are up to now well it's like pro x or something and mark here uses adobe or whatever but to me it's like the editing software in that 10 year old state

is way more powerful than my brain is to keep up with it anyway so it's like all i got to do is link video together and slap some music to it and i got a tv show yeah it's it's funny when you look back at computers that were you know five six seven years ago they were incredibly powerful and much more powerful than for you know the applications that most people use them for i mean most people have way overpowered computers they're just going online you know and clicking on links and stuff and they have these ridiculous computers that can edit crunch video and you know do all kinds of massive calculations and they just never use it. I mean, at the end of the day, do I have the best TV show on the network?

No. Do I have the worst one? No. Do I have one that I really like and enjoy and love? Heck yeah. It's one of my favorites to watch. My favorite to watch is Jim Shockey's Uncharted, that new show that he does. Oh, it bores the hell out of me.

Does it? You know, I love it for what it is. I don't think it was intended to be a quote-unquote hunting show. No, it's not. It's like a cultural show. Yeah, Brandlin is probably one of the best producers that you'll ever find. It's extremely well produced. And I think that's good.

But I also think that a lot of producers, especially young producers coming into the industry, are kind of falling into the game where they feel like a show has to be so well produced to be successful no it doesn't you go out and kill something you bring it home these are hunting shows we're talking about you know they're adventure shows they don't have to be the best produced shows not every shot has to be on a jib or on a slider or you know a rack focus or all that kind of thing capture the action and the entertainment and that's where a lot of these productions miss out but uncharted is is incredible from a production standpoint and from a like you know almost almost like a modern doc yeah modern documentary type of feel to it he's if you haven't seen in jim shocky's this guy who's

been around forever this real kind of legendary the great white hunter from uh from uh bc from british columbia and he he goes all over the world like i mean literally all over the world it's like these really remote places in pakistan he's the man to hunt goats you've never heard of these weird fucking funky looking goats and the thing of it is is like you know he's got the he's got the life to back it up and you look back beyond television before he started doing television the man lived that lifestyle yeah like he had it i mean he's one of the true doing television the man lived that lifestyle yeah like he had it i mean he's one of the true true people that actually grew up in hunting environment in not just hunting but harsh harsh country you know doing it the right way and and building an outfitting business and it just

happened to evolve into television career you know i remember watching him on real tree when he would do the little segment you know in the in the middle i think it was real tree i don't know that's a long time ago but he's really he's really you know deserved and earned where he's at and put himself there yeah he's he's coming on in sometime in november we're working it out now but he um he he does these shows that are almost like they're documentaries on the culture that he's going to as much as it is about the hunting the people he delves in a lot to the people i like yeah and uh the way they capture you know just like some of those villages and the way people live you know i mean it's it's incredible it really brings a reality it's almost like a nat

geo type of a feel to it yeah yeah i'm not interested in doing that though no you know and the hard thing that i would like to see and i don't think it could ever happen but like can you imagine going to some of those places with somebody actually experiencing it? And that's the thing that the cameras can't show you. They can't show you the actual experience because inevitably the guy behind the camera or the producer is wanting to bring drama into it. They're wanting to bring something out. What's going to captivate the viewer? Well, I'm going to do this and this.

And he may use a shot that the kid was doing dishes or something and use it in a scene where something dramatic happened and the kid's crying because he was cutting onions or something. I mean, producers have a way of twisting things to make it look more glorified and more glamorous than it might have actually been. Well, that's one of the things about hunting shows that hasn't really – it hasn't happened where it has with reality TV. A lot of these reality TV shows are the furthest thing from reality that you could ever imagine. Everything is completely scripted. It's calculated. Every event's calculated from the beginning to the end. These shows are just drama shows, like bullshit, fake fiction drama shows that they don't have a necessary...

They don't have a script, but they have an objective. Exactly. Like you and I are going, we're going to go buy Mexican food. And you're like, I fucking hate, but I hate Mexican food. And we have a conversation. Exactly. Like, you and I are going, we're going to go buy Mexican food, and you're like, I fucking hate, but I hate Mexican food. And we have a conversation. Whatever, yeah. And then, you know, we go to another place,

like, how about this place? Dude, I fucking hate Mexican food. Like, come on, man. And, like, at the end, we wind up at a Taco Bell, and you're like, hey, this isn't bad. Like, that's a fucking reality show scenario. The best reality show would be filmed from a drone,

and the people wouldn't even actually know that it was there. That would be the ultimate reality show. Yeah, yeah. Well, they kind of try to do that with like a Big Brother type scenario, but everything changes once people know they're being filmed. Yeah, exactly. You know, and it's just, they're just bad shows. Most of them are just really bad shows.

Whereas like one of the things I like about your show and Rinella's show and a lot of these hunting shows is they're willing to show failure too which is a big part of hunting oh it's yeah it's the majority of hunting yeah i mean you're you're doing something that's very difficult to do you're going into a natural habitat that this animal lives in you're trying to defy all of this is all of its natural instincts its sense of smell it's incredible hearing all these different evolved instincts that they have to keep them alive and you're trying to creep up on them and you're filming the whole thing yeah well i think a lot what a lot of people may not look at you know and i get it sometimes is like everything's wrapped around that that moment of impact that kill you know and especially when you're filming it by yourself it's

really hard to get that moment of impact and that moment of kill on there but that's like one moment you know and it's and it's like the most morbid moment of the entire the entire episode or the entire five week long journey after that animal but everybody focuses on that moment and it's like no you know there's there's 10 days of planning and preparation and hunting and actual stuff going on outside of that one little kill how did you get the idea to do this show why why didn't you try to do a show did you ever try to do a show with a cameraman that comes with you yeah i did so i partnered with a guy in 2000 late 2004 so it was really kind of 2005 and we produced a show on this was one of the first shows on the sportsman channel way back then and that show's running today you know it's continuing on and he's branched off and he's got a couple shows that he's doing but when i left

then what shows that um it's buck ventures buck ventures is where i started and now he's got major league bow hunter and he's partnered with chipper jones and that you know somebody with a lot deeper pockets than i have for sure chipper jones was a baseball player right yeah i think that's what they tell me no yeah he was pull this thing up to your face so yeah sorry volume is me there all right these are tricky microphones so so you know i moved out to oklahoma i mean i when i did that i when i do things i like go ballsy and it's it's everything and so i sold my home moved my wife i had a one my boy was one year old at the time we moved to oklahoma we just lived just outside of uh oklahoma city in edmondmond and just partnered up and started the show loved it and he you know everything was going good with it was 100% whitetail but it really wasn't my thing

you know I grew up in central Idaho in the middle of nowhere and for me to transition my hunting style and what I grew up with to focus just strictly on whitetail just didn't didn't fit. What was your hunting style? I grew up shoot where i grew up in central idaho the nearest walmart's 70 miles away i mean the population 101 you know i mean it's it's a small farming town in central idaho it's called lost river valley um i grew up right in went to school in mackie and arco and and uh so that that lifestyle and growing up on a farm was rugged just in and of itself and so i don't know any anything any different and i know you know i can go out the back door and i can be up on the mountains and just go forever i mean you could go until till forever till canada if you wanted to

but it's so you're used to like going out and hiking going after these animals stalking them yeah mountains western hunting you know where it's you've got elk you've got deer bear mountain lions i mean you've got everything the whole western hunting hunting whitetail is completely different one a whitetail deer might live in just a few square miles its entire life you know and you're hunting farmland predominantly or river bottoms and so you're really you know that's that's the most widely hunted game animal that there is but it's like it's almost like a farm animal the adventure the adventure starts and ends right here you know

within within 200 acres or whatever right when i go on a hunt for elk the adventure there's there's miles you know right hundreds of miles that a person can go on in the west and when you get up on some of these peaks and you you may have experienced on some of the stuff in alaska but like you get up there and it's like gosh dang, dang, there's a lot here, you know? Yeah. I mean, there's so much country and there's no limitation to how far you can go and what you do. So that's when I say my style, that's my style, getting out remote. That's way more fascinating to me to be in like completely wild environments like that.

Like you said, standing on a peak, looking out at Alaska. like that like you said standing on a peak looking out in alaska and what you're seeing is just mountain ranges and just hill after hill after hill and valleys and just it looks endless it looks endless and there's no one out there and you're looking straight ahead you're not seeing any fucking people you're seeing trees and there's some animals out there go find them yeah yeah and that's that's how i grew up i mean i would go out a lot of times during school, and I'd just go up, sleep on the mountain, come back, do chores, milk cows, go to school. Go to football practice, go home, do chores, go up on the mountain, sleep on the mountain, come back home. I mean, that was kind of how my brothers and I grew up. And it's just, I mean, I just have a yearning for the wild. I mean, there, some of the coolest experiences that I've had in life have been when I'm by myself and go and do something just so

totally random that, that, that nobody else would really even think about. I say shit. I shouldn't say nobody, but it's like, you know, in college I'd drive home two hours to my folks' house and I'd drive another hour up to the Canyon. By the time I get to the trailhead, it's 11 o'clock at night, hike in for three or four hours, find somewhere to sleep, get up on top of the mountain and i'm sitting there as as the sun's coming up and three wolverines come up you know and circle the lake and it's like back then you know in the in the 90s there weren't wolverines in idaho there weren't supposed to be anyway i mean i was one of the very first or very

few to actually see wild wolverines in idaho and it's like, had I not been there by myself experiencing that in that Canyon, you know, if there's other people or, or other things, those wolverines might not have been as comfortable, you know, but because I was there by myself and I'm the only one there looking down over it, I had that experience. And there's, there's a lot of opportunities like that, that when you have someone else there, you're focused on the group, you know, you're focused on your conversations, your buddies, your, your friends and everything. You're there, you're focused on the group. You know, you're focused on your conversations, your buddies, your friends and everything. You're not really tuned in to what's around you. You're not tuned in to your surroundings.

And so there's certain things that I think you miss out on when you've got other people there. And it's not that I don't enjoy that sometimes, but I feel like when I'm there, like, there's a connection. You know, there's a connection to the land. There's a connection to the land. There's a connection to the environment. And, uh, you know, you could bring all of into, if, if you're, if you're a hippie, you know, tree hugger voodoo type person, you can bring in the nature and the gods and all that kind of stuff into the whole element. But that really and truly is,

is what it is is you're out there with no one but yourself and God and his creation. I mean, that's it. It's all surrounding you. Yeah. And being like that deep in nature where you're actually a part of it because you're not talking to anyone. So there's no conversations going on. Plenty of conversations. They're just with myself. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying?

It's like you don't – there's nothing, no anchor that brings you back to civilization. You're just seeing wild shit. You're just seeing wildlife. You're seeing animals that would exist that way regardless of whether or not you're there or not yeah and the sad part about it is is the more the older i get and the more i live in the city and the more the more life evolves and gets busy and hectic i mean right now right now it just seems like it's a train ride just straight up and things are things happening are happening fast just like this opportunity here the more the more those things happen it's like the more desensitized i come to the natural experience and so when i'm out there i find myself checking where's my phone you know

i wonder what emails i've got i wonder who's called and that really sucks because i'm desensitized to the nature of man you know to what i grew up as you know and that kind of thing and that's it's good in a way but it's also bad and so i like have taking the opportunity just like you know this week i was supposed to be up hunting in idaho but i had too much work to do i had projects i had to had to get done and it worked out great because it freed up our time where you and i could get together but i know that sunday you know as soon as i get out of church i'm hauling butt up to idaho and i'm going to start elk hunting for a week. So I'm going to have that eight to ten days of solace to really get back into it.

But then at the end of that trip, it's going to be like I've got nine hours to drive home and think about getting back into the daily life, to regular world. Regular world. Do you have a regular job outside of this show? I don't. People think that I hunt for a living or that it's all about the hunting and the show. The hunting is like 10% of my life, you know, outside of that,

I run my business. I've got products just like you do. And, and I'm trying to grow, grow the business space. And this, this year I kind of took it upon myself that this is the year I wanted to grow my business.

You know, I had the TV show established. I had, you know, you know, making a good living and everything but this is the year that i wanted to take it another step and actually make create a business of it that's where i brought on mark and we started producing another show on sportsman channel called off-grid

hunter and experimenting with that and now it's like you know i've got two other sponsors that have come to me and said hey you know you're doing a good job with the productions we've been thinking about x y and z would you be interested in producing producing our shows for us and doing different things so i'm now branching and trying to grow the production side of it as well as solidify the brand of solo well you do a good you do a really good job uh producing the show yourself the way it's edited it's interesting it's not just you know here's a video camera that i turned on when i walked up to the top of the hill, like Blair Witch style. Like, you know, you cut in music and sound effects and there's a lot of close-ups.

Remy calls it the GoPro show. He's like, we're not the GoPro show anymore. That's awesome. Yeah, you definitely edit things really well. And that's a big part of watching any kind of a show, to draw people in. But in that show in particular you're telling a story and your story is you know whatever animal you're chasing after wherever you're going you know you're entering into that environment and then you kind of like you're you're explaining

your thoughts along the way like one of them i really liked was you alone um you were moose hunting in alaska and uh you know you were you know stuck in Alaska and, uh, you know, you were, you know, stuck in the tent and it was raining outside. Yeah. See, and I had a guy with, I mean, people need to know I had a guy with me and I said that right on the episode, there was another guy that had the tag, but I mean, you're out there, you're out there in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. And because you're out there like that, because you're in this like intense, wild environment, you know, you get to get to when you're when you're talking about and when you're you know expressing yourself to the camera you're getting this kind of insight of what it's like to actually be there for a lot of people that's the closest they're ever going

to come to being out there in the wild bush of alaska chasing after a moose so it makes it it's there's like the solitude comes across on camera and it's a it's an interesting element that you don't get in a lot of these shows. Because a lot of these shows, it's an expedition. You got a couple of cameramans. You got a guide. You got two hunters. You got all these people there. You got a fucking ATV.

Everybody's going out into the woods together. It's a journey, you know. But the solitude of you being alone in these remote environments. And, you know, know quite honestly dangerous environments especially like the alaska one because there's bears out there grizzlies you're packing a pistol when you go to take a shit you know it's like it's it's ironic that you know the worst the the most hair raising experiences i've had have not even been alaska you know it's been closer to home and that kind of thing i mean yeah in alaska i got charged by a black bear. I mean, it was.

Was it a female? It had to have been because what happened is we got off the boat to set up to start calling for a moose and doing some moose calling. And I was like, and it was raining real hard. And I'm like, you know what? I got to go back and get my camera just in case something happens. Or I had to go back and get something. I don't remember what it was. So I walked back to the boat.

And as I'm walking back, I hear some noise behind me and as i turn this bear's just coming i mean it's booking hauling it just as fast as it could run and all i did was just just wheeled the camera just yelled bear bear as loud as i could and the thing just skidded stopped and took off and as it turned around i mean i thought i saw another one in the back so that's the only thing that i mean it's the only thing it could have been was a bear hunting, which isn't going to happen. A bear's going to, whatever. So it had to have been a sow with some cubs or something on that. Yeah.

I mean, really, at that instant, you're relying on luck. You know, you're relying on that bear to stop and turn around. Because all I had at that time to protect myself was my voice, you know. By the time I would have got to my gun, the bear would have been on me and you know bears bite and so things would have been pretty bad for for a little while had that bear not turned around and you were by yourself no i was ted was there ted was um yeah he was right in the in the in the general area because we were both hunting moose together have you ever been out there by yourself and had a situation come up where you're like fuck i might you know i might not be able to get out of here like being injured or you know fuck your knee up or anything like that yeah i jacked up my knee pretty good in uh

in new zealand when i was when i was went to new zealand to hunt with remy um i had just killed my tar and was coming down off the mountain and i mean I wasn't very far from the bottom, but I stepped in this fern or something and just jacked my knee. And I remember falling and I kind of blacked out there for a minute. And as I'm laying there, I'm thinking just, I'm just like, please don't, don't have blown my knee out, you know? And I just laid there for like 30, 40 minutes until kind of the throbbing and the pain kind of went away. And then I was able to get up and kind of walk it off. But that's when it gets, you know, that's probably when it's the most dangerous is when you're hauling, you know, 100 plus pounds on your back

and you're coming down rough country because I'm not going to go back up there and pack my camp out. So you're going to load as much weight as you can on your bag. And it's stupid. Something could happen at any time. You know, I mean, a guy could step and something could happen at any time you know i mean a guy could step and roll his ankle at any time you know it's just kind of by us being out there alone it makes it that much more dangerous i guess yeah stupid people who have never um gone hiking in these like remote

areas they you know like these especially when you're going after these mountain animals whether it's elk or something like that they don't they that, they probably don't understand how treacherous some of the terrain is. And you add into that the fact that you've got 100 pounds of meat packed onto your back, and you're probably going to have to do it several times, especially if it's an elk. Yeah, I laughed at my buddy. He killed a deer last week, and he was posting these pictures on Instagram of the blisters on his feet and everything. He's like, I'm on my third trip back in to get my deer.

And I'm like, hell with that, man. Just cut the thing up and put it all on your bag and come out once, you know, don't big was the deer, uh, you know, a boned out, a boned out deer is going to be 90 pounds, you know, 90 to a hundred pounds is all, but you've got your camera gear and, or you got your camping gear and that kind of stuff too. So that's where a deer, you know, deer is a one trip, one tripper for a guy. Yeah, I've talked to people that, like, Ranella's brother fucked his back up essentially for life. Really? Trying to haul out moose. Yeah.

And now he has pack llamas. Yeah. He has llamas that he brings with him. Yeah, my brother tried llamas for a while. Now I think he's got a goat. No, I think he got a horse now. He had goats, too. He was like, I can't just.

Ranella has these, his brother brother has these llamas and they put them in a van and like the llamas like they fucking piss in the van they're disgusting animals but they're just hardy as shit it you know he lives in montana and he's got them out there in montana they just just tie them to a tree and leave them there and they just it's freezing fucking cold out they just stand there they don't give a shit oh they probably they do they just can't say anything about it they probably yeah but they're super durable yeah and um the idea is you just got to make sure that you pack them evenly you know you can't have like 70 pounds off to the right and you know and 100 pounds off to the left it has to be totally balanced out but

once it's balanced out those fuckers can just go yeah yeah we grew up hunting with horses horses and mules mostly, you know. So, I mean, it's nice to have that ability to pack camp in and pack all the way. And I've thought about doing, you know, a pack trip solo, a solo hunting pack trip. But that's, I mean, you're bringing in a whole other element. You're bringing in an animal that you can't control. You can't control, you know, their moods or whatever. I mean, it's just that one more thing that could go wrong

i mean all it takes is a horse to kick you in the side of the head and you're done or you know you your horse kicks you in the knee or a horse takes a fall or any of those kinds of things and that's you know they can mess it up in a hurry so i've always i've just lately i've just got to the point where i just want to throw crap in my backpack and go yeah because i can control me you know i know where my brain is going to be, and I know where I'm stepping, but all that horse has to do is take one wrong step. Yeah. Odds are it's not going to happen, but I've had a friend that was killed on a horse.

Really? What happened? He was on a pack trip, and I remember I was working at the carpet store when I was a kid, and I was like, John, why don't you stay here? I got this job I need you to do. He was a carpet installer, and I was one kid and I was like John why don't you stay here I got this job I need you to do he was a carpet installer and I was one of the salesmen I'm like I got this job that I want you that I need you to do he's like nope man I'm going on this pack trip I'm like come on it's only a two-day job he's all no and I remember him vividly saying he's like life's too short he said I'm I've promised myself no matter what the money's not going to get in the way and I'm

going to live my life and that on that very his horse, something spooked his horse and it came over on top of him and the saddle horn ruptured his spleen. And he went into the hospital. When I got back, he went into the hospital like 220 pounds. The next time I, you know, when he got out of the hospital, he was like 160 pounds or something and it wasn't just a couple months later that he died from that because he had given his kidney to his son and so his kidney and spleen and everything were jacked up and he lost his life you know from that event that can happen my brother you know a couple years ago horse came over on the top of him crushed his pelvis oh stuff happens when you got wild when you've got animals you know stuff can happen you know yeah i have uh friends that ride horses they

like uh my friend's wife actually she she jumps horses they they go to these fucking rings and they they get their horses to jump over logs and shit yeah i'm like what are you doing like why is that exciting like what's going on there yeah it's gotta be i guess but we used to see we used to my brothers and i we had the reputation of breaking horses so people would bring the wild mustangs that they'd catch off the desert and stuff which i know now living in nevada they're not that wild but they'd bring us these horses that they'd adopt thinking that they would make them as kids horses or something and we'd have to break these horses how do you catch them i don't know how they caught them i don't know they just bring them to us in the trailer smack them around

a little bit and break them can you break a wild horse a real wild horse we had all i mean we only had one that we really couldn't break they were that we didn't break so what did you eat it yeah no i i can't even remember what happened that one of them the guy took back and it ended up getting away and they had they ended up shooting it you it somewhere because it got on wild land and they ended up shooting that one. Why'd they shoot it? Because it got on wild land? I don't think they could catch it. They couldn't catch it for a while.

What they tried to do is shoot it in the neck and hit that tendon. So with horses, a lot of times, like Western reigning horses and stuff, a lot of times they'll go in and snip a tendon in their neck to get them to keep their head level. Cause it's, I guess it's better for the, the horse reigns better and acts better and that, and it's not going to flip his head up and flail its head. So they'll flip this tendon. So this horse, so the, the sharpshooter went

in trying to shoot this horse in the, in the tendon in the back of the neck to kind of just break him down so they could catch this horse. Cause it was a big, uh, black and white Tabino stallion that they wanted to catch. And they, I think he just kind of missed and killed it yes what the fuck a little bit of a what kind of a sharp shooter does he think he is i don't know he should have hired me a moving horse and you're gonna shoot it in a perfect spot on the neck i can't imagine shooting a horse anyway that's why when i see these guys going to africa and shooting zebras and stuff i mean i grew up on

a farm i have such a love and a passion for animals that i can't imagine i can't imagine that well we were we were talking about that before the show that it's a weird thing for people to hear when someone says they're a hunter but they love animals yeah you know like i i got this tweet the other day by this woman uh she was someone's tweeted me something and she tweeted, why would you talk to him? He kills bears for fun. Like, you know,

that, no, I don't kill, I've killed one bear. It wasn't for fun. I eat it. But did you have fun? I did.

I enjoyed it. I mean, I guess I kind of killed a bear for fun. But you were sad too, right? Like, that was part of it.

There's a remorse, well, bears are cool they're interesting they're interesting and uh you know i went with uh cameron haynes we're bow hunting in alberta and if you've never been up there first of all they have to kill bears up there yeah there's a lot of fucking bears up there they they estimate between three and eight per square mile and uh when you get up there you realize that's true because like when you're sitting and you're waiting they all of a sudden within you know an hour or so they just start showing up one two three i mean we saw as many six seven bears at a time it's crazy and they're cannibalizing each other left and right they're eating cubs you have to kill them they're giving themselves diseases and all kinds of stuff if they overpopulate yeah and they are overpopulated

up there you have to kill the boars if you don't kill the boars they just feast on babies you know and it's it's a just a numbers thing they don't have anything to kill them nothing kills them so if humans don't kill them then their populations get out of control. They run into starvation issues. There's all sorts of things that happen. And they taste good. You know, and people are fucking weird, man. This whole hunting thing has really exposed me to a lot of very strange hypocrisies that people just accept. And one of them is, this fucking guy came up to me at the airport wearing leather shoes.

And he goes, man, I was really disappointed to find out that you killed a bear i go dude you're wearing fucking leather shoes do you does there's a leather i go do you eat meat yeah somebody killed a cow for that exactly he goes i do eat me but i just think bears are different i go different how because they're not in your neighborhood like what are you talking about it's an animal do you understand that anything that a hunter kills lives an infinitely better life than anything you're buying at mcdonald's than anything you're wearing on your clothes any any shoes any leather any belt that you have those animals lived lives of unimaginable suffering for the most part those domesticated animals that are done they're used for you know whatever it's for clothing or for you know leather goods or couches or shit like that

those fucking things live in pens and their lives from birth to death are just for utility they're just they serve a purpose they're they're they're a commodity when you're hunting you're taking an animal that lives an entirely natural life you dip into that natural world harvest an animal pull it out and in my opinion that's infinitely better infinitely better in every way first of all the animal they're not gonna live forever it's not like you know you're taking away an animal that was gonna cure cancer if you kept it alive you know that animal was on its way to fucking building a rocket to go to the moon and you stepped in and shot it no they're fucking bears man they're bears

they're eating each other's cubs. And it's really good meat. And it's good for you. And the fact that people have a problem with hunters, but they don't have a problem with passing by every restaurant you drive down the street, every restaurant is filled with meat. Every one of them. Every supermarket filled with meat. All these people, half of them are driving cars with leather seats.

Half of them are wearing leather shoes. Probably more than half. But yet people have a problem with hunting. And it's this weird thing. Because they don't see the death of the animal that caused their cheeseburger. Because society is structured in a way that you can just, without participating in the animal's death at all, you can reap the benefits of it by just giving a little piece of paper and getting a cheeseburger, and that's your connection to it.

You can eliminate yourself from some of the guilt because you didn't kill it, and you didn't see it get killed, so therefore it didn't happen. Yeah, and people that eat meat have said this to me, and I'm like, man, you've got to rearrange the way you think. You should expose yourself. I've told several people that have a problem with it that eat meat. I'm like, you should expose yourself to the death of an animal just to decide whether or not you want to continue eating meat. Because that was a concern when I went hunting for the first time.

Like, I had been fishing my whole life. So I've killed things before and eaten them. But I've never killed an animal. And I was like, man, a deer is a big, beautiful animal. Maybe that's going to freak me out. Maybe I'm not going to like it. Maybe I'll be a vegetarian after that i was like i was really wondering what it was going to be like the exact opposite happened didn't bother me at all i mean i thought it was great i mean it was there was a moment of sadness that this animal died but the

food was delicious the meat was delicious the the experience was exhilarating. It was exciting. It was fun. It was wild. It was enriching. And it's the healthiest meat you can get and I think the most ethical way to acquire it. You're responsible for what you're eating. And there's something super satisfying about that. Whenever I, not all the time, but a lot of times I tweet photos of wild game that I cook. And when I'm out there and I'm grilling something that I killed and I chopped up and I'm putting it on the grill and then I'm eating it,

it's just such a different experience. The feeling of it is so much better than just getting a steak from the grocery store, throwing it on the grill, and eating it. There's nothing there with that. Yeah, and pound for pound, it's a hell of a lot more expensive but that's not you know that's not what it's that's not what it's about and and it's one of those things where it's like super super hard to explain to people when they're like why do you hunt and even my wife you know she's she's not into hunting she never wants to be she doesn't understand how i can love animals

so much and yet go out and kill them and all that. But it's one of those things that there's so many different facets that you can go down. Well, we're doing it for food. We're doing it for this. We're doing it for population control. We're doing it for, you know, whatever, for sport, which I don't look at hunting as a sport, you know, per se. But there's a lot of different things, elements that you can bring into it to explain to somebody. And at the end of the day, I look at it. I'm like, I don't know why i do i'm just i'm a man you know like i posted

a picture the other day on on instagram that's like a lot of these hunting groups classify themselves as predators or as you know addicts or junkies or you know i'm an antler junkie or i'm a this or i'm a that and it's like i'm a man you know god put man on this earth to till and to take care of it and he gave us sustenance and he gave us an ability to sustain not only ourselves but to grow population you know that's what that's what adam and eve were there if you're a religious person or whatever but if you really believe adam and eve were the only two people that everybody came from which is pretty fucking ridiculous so i just happen to be a believer in avenue but anyway do you believe that there was two people and that everybody came from those two people in a way yeah

really i think there's i think that i definitely think that there's a lot to specific religions that are out there that there's pieces there that you know if you follow the bible word for word for what it says like literally there's a lot of stuff that's there's pieces there that you know if you follow the bible word for word for what it says like literally there's a lot of stuff that's there's no way i mean it's like no those are probably made up stories where but there's other things that i you know i'm a religious person and i believe in god and and uh i think there's a lot of things that people have twisted no doubt no doubt right but but i'm a believer there's something to all religions that I think there's some universal truths. And there's universal truths about treating people certain ways.

And there's universal truths about seeking the good in life and looking out for your brothers and sisters. And I think all of that came from understanding that people developed over time, wisdom that people developed over time, and then this connecting to what is universally good about the world, about life. With few exceptions, people generally, and there are exceptions, that people generally want to do good. People generally want to be happy. They generally understand consequence.

They understand right and wrong. There are exceptions. People just don't understand it don't get and then there's people that have calloused themselves one way or the other either they toe the line 100% religious and everything is literal or they go the other direction yeah the problem with the literal translations is that it wasn't English you know I mean we're still they're still working on the Dead Sea Scrolls which is the oldest version of the bible which is an aramaic and it's on animal skins and they have to they literally have to do dna analysis on the animal skins to make sure that when they line up the

pieces they're trying to piece them all together that it's the right animal like like the way they do the the dead sea scrolls have you ever paid attention to it no no i mean i'm one of those it's like i don't know it's like yeah i don't know some of those things are so hard to even get into right but if you want to be a religious person that's the source of it that's the source of almost all biblical stories is the dead sea scrolls and um what's what's really unique about it is that it was found in kumran i think in the 1940s, they found these clay pots. And inside these clay pots were essentially these animal skins that had been wrapped up in these cylinders and these wrapped up in rolls. And they had to unravel them, and a lot of them were broken up.

And so the broken up ones, the way they do the DNA test, they do a DNA test. So they say, okay, well, all the pieces from this animal we'll put over here. All the pieces from that animal, we're assuming that's a different piece of skin, we'll put that over here. And then they have to, like, try to piece it together like this ancient puzzle. Then they have to take Aramaic and translate it into English. And that's even older than the ancient Hebrew version of the Bible. The ancient Hebrew, the weirdest thing about the ancient Hebrew version is that apparently ancient Hebrew didn't have numbers. So letters were also numbers. So the letter a was also the number one.

And like, if I said Tim Burnett, there's numbers to your name that like, it also, it counts in the translate, not to translation, but what the meaning of the word, like the word love and the word God have the same numerical value in ancient Hebrew. And this is on purpose.

It's like things have, like, value and the sentences have, like, a numerical value to them that aren't our brains. The way we think, the way we talk, because we have numbers separate from words, I don't think we totally grasp what a lot of the meaning of a lot of the sentences were. Then on top of that, like a lot of those words in ancient Hebrew, there's something like 25% of them, they still don't even know what the fuck it was. There's a massive amount of interpretation that they have to figure out. Then they take that and take it from there and translate it to Greek and to Latin and then from that to English. So when you're reading about Adam and Eve, who the fuck knows what the original meaning was?

What were they trying to say? The original human beings that God created or that the universe bestowed upon the earth? What was that? Did they really mean that it was just two people? It's so hard to tell and when you add in all the other fuckery the ones where you know that somebody had a grip on it somebody we know about constantine and the bishops and how they they rewrote the the new testament

and they left out a bunch of shit like they had they chose what was going to be in the bible or not bunch of people chose what was going to be the word of god people that had no contact with god it's not like god came down and he gave him a fucking to-do list like get all this shit done and then i'll double check your work and i'll be back no there was they decided so i'm not opposed to the concept of god and i'm not an anti-religious person at all um i think religion's done a lot of good i think religion is a good foundation for a lot of people to develop morals and ethics and i just whenever anybody wants to talk about like literal translations of stuff i'm like and i always want to know like how much did you look into it like how when you say literal translation like did you did you go to the actual source of those stories because you got to go to fucking the epic of gilgamesh if you want to really know the noah's ark story that's the original version of it's 6 000 years

old i mean it's it's it's written with these little lines and shit like on clay tablets like that's the oldest version of that story probably based on some real shit that happened probably based on real floods yeah my brother he just he was telling me the other day he watched that noah movie oh it's terrible yeah he's like man that was the worst that wasn't even close but then he's like well there were giants in the bible so maybe maybe and i haven't seen the movie so i don't have a clue but he's like yeah it's so weird and everything but yeah it's the problem is people are full of shit all i know is i guarantee that if there wasn't that noah he probably found a chicken and he and he probably ended up eating it once sometime.

He's like, yeah, that tastes good. You know, I'm going to eat chicken and I'm going to raise chickens and then there's going to be more chickens. And then he's like, well, if a chicken tastes good, then this sheep over here has got to taste good, you know? And so it just continued on, you know? Well, how the fuck did all the animals get to him? That's the big one. They have to walk there from all over the earth. Live in the now, Rogan.

How convenient. get to them that's the big one they have to walk there from all over the earth living the now rogan how convenient that's one thing that's kind of cool about your podcast is the ones that i listen to and everything it's like what i like about you is is when you bring in different hosts and different guests a lot of them have completely opposite backgrounds of what i have and probably from what you have too but i like that you're fascinated by a lot of different things and that you take yourself and just like the you're saying there the research is you'll immerse yourself into really knowing and finding something out and uh you find a lot of different things fascinating and one thing that's really cool when you're talking about the hunting and when you were first when you first did a podcast with ranella and then you kind of were educating yourself along the way as you got into the hunting part of it it was almost like it's and i don't know if you've gone back and listened to any of your old podcasts when when you did those but it's

like it was like a little kid you know just learning something new and i'm like that's pretty cool you know because here you have a you know a grown man asking questions that my 10 year olds asking me daddy why are you doing this or this or that i'm like i don't know ask rogan you know i'm like that with you though yeah. Yeah, Mark's like, ah. But it's cool to see, and that's one of the questions that I had for you. It's like, well, what got you into hunting? Why did you want to start hunting? Well, my wife would be best able to answer that because she's been mocking me for watching Ted Nugent's Spirit of the Wild for the past 11, 12-plus years.

I watch it for a lot of reasons one of it one of it is because it is fucking unbelievably hokey i mean he's just a hokey dude he's a great he's a a master showman you know and if you ever seen ted nuget play guitar you ever seen his band he's a master showman and he uses a lot of that showmanship on his show and you know some of it is like really ridiculous you know some of it is like very repetitive and very over the top but i was fascinated by his promotion of this lifestyle this hunting lifestyle you know he has a at the time he didn't have the place in texas he had his place in michigan as a high fence operation and he would just gotta go out into i don't know any hundreds of acres he has, set up tree stands and wait for deer and shoot them.

And that's all the meat that he ate. He donated it to Hunters for the Homeless and Hunters for the Hungry or whatever it is. And, you know, and it really constantly promoted how healthy the lifestyle is, how healthy the meat is, and how this is about sustainability. This is about these animals are providing him with sustenance, and in turn, he is providing, he puts up food plots, he's planting trees. His whole thing is, it's very balanced in a way that a lot of people who eat organic food, that they buy at Whole Foods and they think they're being all earthy. My wife.

Mine too. You're not really balanced. Like Ted Nugent living in Michigan is more balanced than you. I know you don't think that, but that's the reality. The reality for a lot of people that go to the grocery store and pick up their organic food is like, man, you don't know how many people were involved in the creating of that food, what was put in the soil. It's organic. There's no pesticides, allegedly.

It's organic because some inspectors stamped it to say that it is organic. Okay, you don't use this pesticide, but you use this chemical. But it's okay. It's organic. Yeah, the word organic is a weird word, too. It's too open-ended.

Too over-marketed. Yeah, I don't know the exact definition of organic groceries are. But there's a difference between groceries that you buy and groceries that you grow. And I grow a lot of vegetables now. And I've been doing that over the last, say, year and a half, two years. And again, it's something super fucking satisfying about plucking a tomato, slicing it up and eating it and cooking it, you know, putting it in a salad. Tomato that you grew. You put that seed in there.

You watered it. It grew. You plucked it. It's the whole cycle. The whole cycle comes together. So I started watching that show. And from then, I just said, God, one of these days I want to fucking go hunting. And then I started watching Rinella's show.

I was watching all kinds of hunting shows for like a decade before I ever went hunting. Oh, gotcha. Yeah. People would come over my house and look at my DVR. They'd be like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You're morbid. You got this weird twisted. Yeah.

It's when animals attack, kickboxing, MMA, hunting shows. They're like, what the fuck is wrong with you? I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with me but that's uh how i got into it so until i met ranella i never actually went hunting right you know the hunt you did with him was it alaska or something the first one or something no the first one was uh mule deer in montana oh okay we went um to um the uh the missouri river we did a float trip it was really fun i remember seeing something on the

sportsman channel was touting the crap out of that they're like meat eater you know joe rogan goes on meat eater does this and i'm like who's joe rogan i don't i know who meat eater is but i didn't know who joe rogan was i didn't know what the big deal about it was and then i watched the episode i'm like that guy seems pretty funny you know whatever and then it wasn't until like mark when i mean this wasn't very long ago. I'll admit, I haven't, and I'm like, I got to get to know more of this Joe Rogan because he's getting into hunting, you know, he's doing stuff with Ranella. Now all of a sudden, shoot, he's doing a podcast with Cam.

I was like, okay, I got to get to know this a little bit more. Because I'll be honest, I was like, Rogan, he could have been jungle or acrobat as far as I knew. I had no idea. No idea. You're totally immersed in the hunting world. That's your world. That's what's funny, too. You asked me the last time I watched a Meteor episode two years ago, a year and a half ago.

I don't know. I've watched one episode of Uncharted. I just don't watch the shows anymore because, I don't know, I'm making them, I guess. Yeah, but you're probably so fucking busy too yeah it's not that i'm that busy i mean i definitely am busy but i have my home life too you know i spend a lot of time at home but i just don't spend it watching tv anymore i used to a lot i used to i mean when i first started producing television i would watch all the top rated shows i'm like i want to know what waddell's doing i want to know what leon tivian i want to know what

all these people are doing and i'm gonna going to do it because it's successful. It's a format. And then I started solo, and it was like everything went out the window. It's like, you know what? I'm going to do everything these people don't do because I'm sick of seeing the exact same thing every time. And these conversations, I had a conversation with a big sponsor the other day because they're wanting to produce a TV show,

and we had a big conference call, and everybody was talking about all the things they hate about television. And things that they like about television. And a lot of these different shows came up. And without a doubt, they're all like, we hate how hokey it is. We hate how overproduced it is. And this and that and that. But at the end of the day, something's got to die.

You know, and it's like, everything is the same. The comments that you get from people is all the hunting shows are the same. You know. And so, to do something different is really hard. Well, there are a lot of them that are saying there's so many shows out there right now because of the networks that are that are available that there's a lot of shows that are different a lot of shows that that that You know their heartland bow hunter pretty different. Yeah, there's shows that have their own brand You know a lot of people emulate to try to copy what what heartland bow hunters started and what they've done

And so you're starting to, a lot of people emulate and try to copy what Heartland Bowhunters started and what they've done. And so you're starting to see a lot of that imagery and that type of shooting into different productions. And, you know, I'll admit I fall into a lot of that, too, where it's like, man, I want to do a shot that looks like that, but I want to do it my way. Right. For ours, for Solo, what I think makes it unique is the fact that no matter how we film it, it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day, we're one man out there. We're trying to kill an animal. We're going to kill it. We're going to bring it home, you know, and we're just trying to document that adventure. I think by doing it by ourselves and having that relationship with the camera where everything seems to be so close up and like, it's like, I'm talking to you, you know, you're watching, I'm trying to talk to the viewer and

communicate that. And that's really hard to do because sometimes you want to just reenact and restate what's happening or what's going on or what you're going to do. But what, what Mark and I are working on with, with some of these other projects and what we're going to try to bring into solo is more of that, more of that, what's going on up here, you know, what's going on in my head, more so than what's going on that you're seeing. People want to know more what I'm thinking while I'm doing certain things than actually what I'm doing, I think. And so that's an element from as a producer to try to bring into it to where if people really knew what goes on in my head while I'm up on the mountain, I think they'd be shocked. Because it's not, you know, it's not all just complete focus on hiking and hunting and killing.

You know, there's a lot of different things that go on. Meaning that like you start thinking about your family you start thinking about your life well that kind of thing yeah that and it's like you know i may i may be sitting there one time i may be thinking you know i'm going home i've been up here for four days i haven't seen a damn antlered antler antlered animal for the last four days i'm going home but you have this you know this all this interaction that goes on in my head it's like the guilt okay if i go home i've just wasted four days that i've got here that i should have been here to potentially get an episode you know or to potentially harvest an animal bring it home and to eat it you know i'm wasting that

if i go home now i'm a quitter if i stay stick it out i'm stupid because i'm not going to find any animals or whatever so there's just that constant because when you're by yourself there's nobody to talk you into things and there's nobody to talk you out of things so when you make a decision it's yours and you got to live with it you got to do it you know so if i'm hiking up a mountain and a deer is bedded somewhere and i know that if i hike around this way two miles i can get to him without him winding me. Or like I did on the last day of my hunt, I said, yeah, it's a gamble.

The wind's blowing here. If I go here, it's iffy. But if I go here, I can cut off two miles of distance, but I might have a chance to get on him. But if I go this way, it's two miles, but it's a guarantee I could get in on him without the wind. Well, the last day I chose the shortcut. And what did I do? I blew the deer out.. Well, the last day I chose the shortcut, and what did I do?

I blew the deer out. The deer caught my scent and was gone. Is there anything that works for covering scent? Because you were using some stuff on the episode that I saw last week where you were that nose blocker. Yeah, I tried that nose jammer stuff. That stuff's different, I guess. I'm not a scent guy. I'm not a cover scent guy.

You don't believe in it? I don't. You think they're just too good? Stuff like that. People are trying to convince me that that works, and it may work. But there was an instance on that episode, because I don't want to down talk Nose Jammer, because they're advertising on the show. But it's a product that I committed to him when I met the owner.

I met John redmond at a trade show in in reno and he was so stinking passionate about it and i told him to his face i'm like john i don't believe in that stuff man it's all hokey it smells smells funny i don't want anything that smells he's like no try it blah blah blah so it turns out i he gives me a can of this stuff when i try it there in oklahoma that's the first time i'd ever tried it and there was a buck that came downwind and he obviously smelled something yeah you could tell he was like yeah he's like and that was awesome because i was like is he smelling but you know what the deer could have done that by smelling me or he was smelling the vanilla that i just rubbed all over

the tree or whatever that was whatever's in the nose jammer but something confused his sensory glands and that's the point behind nose jammer i guess is to kind of kind of confuse their sensory glands so that it just pauses them just for that one minute so hopefully you can get a shot at him but it did it held that deer up and then he then he moved on so there was there's some validity to to that i guess but would that deer have done the same thing if i rubbed coconut oil on on my pants you know who knows i don't know right how could you tell? You'd have to have the exact same scenario with the exact same animal and a bunch of different options. And that's why for me personally, I've had so much experience in the field. And I've had so many times where I've tried different things and times where I've just gone natural, you know, where it's just me and my body odor or that's it.

And ultimately at the end of the day my conclusion has been and it is to the to date and that's not to say that it can't change over time and as i as i have more hunting experiences but right now i don't want to interject any foreign scent into the air you know i want i'm going to have a smell to me no matter what i do no matter what i shower in no matter what i spray my clothes down with doesn't matter i'm going to smell a certain way that is not natural to that environment so when that deer walks into his bedroom because a deer a deer is never anywhere by chance he's never anywhere randomly he's he's walking where he's walking for a reason you know he knows that that's a safety corridor where he can transfer where he can move himself from food

to bed or whatever safely and so he's there for a reason. So if he smells anything out of the ordinary or sees anything out of the ordinary, he's automatically going to be on alert. And you know that there's variations to everything because cropland and where you hunt some of these whitetails, it's farmland where I hunt there in Oklahoma. It's an operating cattle ranch. So the deer could have smelled people before, had to have, because there's oil rigs in there where there's people in and out. they know what people smell like so to me i use that into my into my little thinking is that if they know what humans smell like they want to avoid it

so they're traveling these corridors because they know they can avoid humans so they're just traveling where he's traveling because he knows he's not going to have any interaction with with anything but a deer right so to me i use that as well that's the point where i want to be and i want to get to so i can kill him you know so if he smells anything guys getting back to the scent thing if he smells anything out of the ordinary it's your the gigs up anyway so and deer have an insane capability oh yeah for smell right yeah yeah i mean you're they say i can't i don't know the exact numbers i mean i'm not a technical guy i'm more of a live in the now you know feel how i feel kind of kind of person so you know i've had experiences where a deer has been 1,000 1,500 yards downwind and he smells me and it blows me away it's like that deer is 1,500 yards away from

me and he smells me and he takes off because in the west you can see that you can see what goes on so when you're sneaking around you see that deer poke his head up and you know you you know when they're smelling and they're gone if they smell you they're out of there but you know when i was hunting this year there's several times where i bumped these two big bucks i bumped them three different times the first two times they just saw me and they didn't smell me and they just kind of you know moseyed off they were like something's something's weird over there you know so that bush isn't supposed to be moving like that but then the one time that they smelled me they didn't see me they just smelled me and they were gone i mean they booked it did they they smell your breath like what are they smelling yeah everything you fart in the woods don't you i mean i do well there's there's it depends it's breath

but it's it's we have a scent you know i mean i smell myself right now sitting here but it's like we have it we have an aroma about us just like they have an aroma about them you know so you can wash your clothes and the scent free stuff you spray whatever but you know 30 minutes into a hike i'm i'm sweating and smelling like yeah like a man swells you know you could maybe eliminate the very outskirts of their ability don't even try just play the wind you know well i mean and that's hard too because it's like you know there's millions of dollar advertising dollars spent in promoting scent elimination products and a lot of some of my sponsors promote scent elimination clothing or whatever and at the end of the day

all that stuff can help it can eliminate like you're saying it can take your your scent aroma from here to here which is good that's your advantage but what about those ozone things those ozone things that people put behind them for that i don't know ozonics i dealt with ozone with water but i don't know i don't know yeah it was that it's a giant box that's above your tree stand. Does it play music? Yeah, music. Yeah, something. It's like elevator music to calm them down, put some sedate in them.

Looks like a projector to me. It's like the air cleaner thing. Yeah. It's the ozone. It puts out... Which I'm experienced with ozone with water when I worked for a water company. The ozone is a form of... Sanitizing.

Sanitizing, yeah. It keeps the lines clean and it keeps everything clean. So I guess if you inject that into the air, and you can smell ozone. Like after a good heavy rainstorm or something, you can smell the ozone in the air. You can smell it. The ozone from the ozone layer? Yeah, just from the environment. The ions, it disables the ions.

It does something. Yeah, you can get them for your house. I know people that have got them around their house, and it lowers the dust levels, allergens. Really? Yeah, it just paralyzes it, brings it right to, yeah. But isn't ozone toxic? Yeah, you can get yourself pretty sick from it. So if you're sitting in a tree stand blowing ozone on your face.

I can't speak to it. To me, I don't know, man. That's one more thing I got to haul up the tree. I can't speak to it. To me, I don't know, man. That's one more thing I got all up the tree. I'm never going to use one. I mean, they could come to me and say, hey, we'll give you 50 grand to use this thing. I'll be like, I'll take your 50 grand, but I ain't going to use it.

Wow, how rude. I can't believe you're saying this on a podcast, ladies and gentlemen. Well, good for you to be honest, though. I appreciate that very much. I had a sponsorship at one time with a scent elimination company, and they wanted to grow that sponsorship. Of course, there was other pretense to it to move to another network and different things, and I ended up turning that down.

And I told him exactly, I'm like, this is not a product that I can get behind 100%. And if I can't believe in what it is, then people are going to see right through that. Right. So for me, it's like that money that you're going to give me, it does us both no good. Right, right. So I discontinued that relationship with that sponsor. Yeah, I feel the same way about sponsors for the podcast. I've turned down a bunch.

I've turned down one recently. It was pretty lucrative, but I'd be like, I don't like it. I don't like what they're selling. I don't like the idea. Not doing it. Yeah, and with the TV show, some of it, you see some of the ads or the billboards that are running in the show and everything. What a person's got to realize, too, from a production standpoint is we have sponsors, you know, quote, unquote sponsors that we are backing. Under Armour, you know, Prime, G5, all these that are backers and investors.

You know, yeah, they're pretty much investors in you and in your business and your brand. And then there's ads that you sell. 30-second commercial spots, those types of things, that's ad placement that either the network's going to put in there or I'm going to sell it to somebody to put in there. Yeah, that's kind of the fine line. Maybe people don't understand how outdoor shows work. Outdoor shows work a little bit different than a lot of other shows.

A lot of times they get, like if a guy uh puts on a show like solo hunter you have a certain amount of advertising space that's for you for your program but then the network has a certain amount of advertising space of their own for their things like i had to tell ranella about an advertiser that was competing with one of his friends companies that was on the same show i go do you know that you guys are selling this on your show he goes what we're selling that i go yeah your show had an ad for this and which is a ripoff because they didn't protect the category yeah exactly for like under armor and some of these other these the major sponsors you protect categories so when

somebody buys a commercial spot on the show for say that's protected i'm not going to go out and find another clothing guy you know right sponsor any of that i'm exclusive for these guys and so yeah that makes sense so it's for folks who don't know what you're exactly how you're saying it's it's a kind of a unique thing you're kind of buying time on a on the network yeah there's that's one thing i tell people you know is is there's no rule book but there's no playbook either so the networks there's a lot of variations you know the majority of hunting shows out there they're called time buys where we buy the times we buy that 30 minute block on the network and then we we buy a certain amount of advertising and we sell that advertising and then whatever advertising we don't buy from the network

because within a 30 minute commercial or 30 minute block you have six minutes of commercial time. So it's three two-minute commercial breaks. So whether I buy any of those commercial times or not, Outdoor Channel is going to put in three two-minute breaks into that programming. So my 30 minutes turns into 22 minutes. So what I do is I buy however many 30-second commercial spots I can sell, I buy that from the network. I turn around and sell that at margin.

Then within the show content, I get paid to wear somebody's hat. I get paid to wear somebody's shirt. If I use a product, I get paid. And there's different ad placements in there. And so it becomes more people think that it's all about hunting. Hunting is the fun part. But for me, the business is the fun part too. So you're trying to calculate in that 30 minutes how can i maximize maximize my revenue you know because you can only have you have a limited number of advertising spots you can put in there so it's

who can i who can i contract and who's who who can we fit in certain places it's a very interesting way to produce television a lot of folks aren't aware of. It's cool in a way because there are shows on the hunting television that are more like Discovery Channel where the network pays for them to be produced and they actually own the content. They're called Outdoor Channel Originals. We're on Sportsman's Channel. I don't know what they're called, whatever. Where the network is invested into these shows or they give them the airtime for certain – there's a myriad of ways things can be done.

But I want to own – at the end of the day, I want to own solo hunter and i want to own timber net i want to own my brand you know i don't want just because they're buying the show off me i don't want to have them have any control over me or what i do or what i say or what advertisers i can bring in so at the end of the day yeah i'm i'm having to front some money and and run it as a business rather than somebody paying me to produce a show. But at the end of the day, there's no limit to what I can make. There's no limit to the advertising that I can sell. And I own myself. I own the show.

I own the brand. Are you aware of this whole sort of movement that's going on right now on television, on regular television, like the History Channel and a lot of these other channels, where they're really concentrating on people that are trying to live sustainable lives yeah like the alaska shows like alaska last frontier or um there's that other show life below zero have you ever seen that show it's a good show it's a lot a lot of it is hunting yeah and uh i follow that stuff probably more than i do in the hunting industry because to me that's it's obviously mainstream but it's more fascinating because you don't have individual little guys like me conceptualizing and coming up with the content you have big boys in big rooms making big decisions with big big checks doing big analysis on viewership and on what people are looking for and all that you have them creating the concepts

and the ideas so to me it's like those are, those are the people I want to watch because those are the people with the brains and the backing behind them, knowing with their hand on the pulse of what society is looking for. Allegedly. So I follow the, allegedly. Allegedly. Which, you know, yeah. I mean.

Most of the time, they're just TV fuckheads. The hard thing with that is like, you know, there's a larger part of society that are non-hunters, non-outdoorsmen than there are that are outdoorsmen. But you're starting to see a lot of content, people trying to portray that lifestyle. Yeah, that's why I asked you because I think there's this movement right now. And you see it in weird ways. You see it with preppers, a lot of these weird people that are canning foods and digging holes in their backyard and burying water bottles and stuff. Taking dumps in coffee cans.

I mean, whatever. Well, preppers, it's weird, you know, because some of them are living in cities and they're putting all this stuff together. And I kind of got news for you. If you're living in a city and the shit hits the fan, you better get the fuck out of that city. That's what I told my wife.

I'm like, you know what? I'm flying through Vegas into L.A. on 9-11. It's like, there's nowhere to go. Like, I don't know how you guys do it down here there's nowhere to escape you know nowhere where i'm at i'm like okay out the back door gone middle of the nevada desert you'll never you'll never find me but here it's like man you can't well it's gonna be also you're gonna be surrounded by a bunch of people who don't have any food who don't have any water and they're gonna find out that you have food and water you better have a lot of bullets and fucking adderall to stay awake don't let people know you've got a year supply of food yeah don't get on a prepper show where it shows the

fucking front of your house and all your neighbors know where your stored food is crap hits the fan there's a lot of us that are in trouble yeah ultimately society is going to have to bond together and those those that's where that's where religion a lot of these groups will come together and that's where it'll become valuable you know for for people that don't see that like that's where little groups communities you know it's where if you don't know your neighbor man you should know your stinking neighbor because the guy might be my guy might be covering your back one night you know maybe so you need to know your area and you know yeah it's the fan we're all screwed anyways yeah you're almost like i was listening to this other show that i listen to all the time called radio lab uh it's a podcast

and they were talking about uh the the impact that killed the dinosaurs and uh when they were talking about it it was like you're just going over like what the original human was like this thing that allegedly came out of you know, like what animals, what fossils they know of. And it's almost like you'd rather get hit in the head by the asteroid than go through all that shit. I know. You don't want to be the people that have babies in an apocalyptic environment and then those babies grow on to like, fuck, man.

Be glad you live in an era where they can make cotton really, really soft. You know, you've got soft blankets and warm heat and you don't have to deal with all that stuff. I'm a big fan of civilization. But I am a big fan of this. Well, we were talking about the prepper thing because I think there's this. People are sort of realizing as people pay more attention to a lot of the issues that society has, attention to a lot of the issues that society has whether it's environmental issues like um whether it's a pollution or garbage that's being dumped into the ocean or the amount of fish that's getting pulled out of the ocean sustainability and they started looking at the ideas of like

where their food comes from like people are really into grass-fed beef now grass-fed beef is a big thing it was just fucking non-existent 10 years ago never saw grass-fed beef anywhere almost every supermarket i go to now has like a little section grass-fed meat you know and people are concerned about animals that are eating what they're supposed to be eating instead of some weird fucking great news for for people is beef you know being here in the west you know we see a lot of that, and the majority of its life is grass-fed. They turn them out on the range. They pay fees to BLM or wherever it is.

They're grass-fed up until about three months at the end of their life where they're put onto a feedlot, fed a bunch of fat foods, fattened up so they taste good when I put them on the grill. reason why in my opinion why food's been engineered and and changed is because it makes them we've got a lot of pop a lot of people to feed you know for one yeah but so in a way that's good but as long as i can go out and still obtain a deer tag or an elk tag and go out and get my own meat for myself i'm going to continue to do that you know yeah well it's just it's a totally different kind of meat that was the the point is that that when you eat a steak from an elk or a deer and then you eat a steak from a cow, one of them is a fat, lazy fuck that's like marbling. That shit's not supposed to be there. It tastes so good, though.

It does taste so good. I love it. I had a ribeye last night. Okay. A bone-in ribeye. Oh, delicious. I'm sure it was not fucking grass-fed whatsoever. Probably never even saw grass.

Probably never feared for its life either. Oh, probably not until the end. It didn't even know the end, you know? The axe fell and... I don't think it's an axe. I don't know what it is. It's a piston. Piston.

Yeah, right? Is that what it is? That thing like No Country for Old Men? That thing that he uses that jacks up his foreheads? Then they take a rod and go... I remember in high school I watched a video on the butchering process

and that made me sick. When they killed the cow, it made me sick. After that, it wasn't that big of a deal because I had dealt with that before. What's weird is when they do it kosher style,

like kosher, you have to cut its throat and it suffers way more it's it's very strange like they have rules and a lot of the rules are like old school religious rules like the reason why you're not supposed to eat pigs well it's because a lot of pigs carry trichinosis that's what they did back in the day at least and so they were telling people don't eat pigs why because people eat pigs they got really fucking sick so they wrote it down don't eat pigs it's against the religion the way i grew up you know i mean you talk about organic

and you talk about raw i mean the way i grew up is probably about as organic and raw as you can get i mean whole milk straight from the cow you milk the cow take it in strain it through a cloth you know that a cloth chill it skim the cream off or shake it in and you drink it you know no pasteurization nothing that's how that's how i grew up there was a time there when when my dad was a farmer and he lost the farm so he had to go back to college well there was a big time stretch in there where we had to sustain off the land you know or off of the farm we had animals to eat and you know you the farmers would come and drop off a sack of potatoes because they knew that those little rugged kids, their dad's off going to college, and their mom's trying to take care of them.

And so we literally lived off the land for a lot of time. So your dad was somewhere else, and you were on the farm? Dad went to college in Provo, Utah, while we lived in central Idaho because he went back to school to get his teaching degree because we lost the farm. He was a potato farmer for a long time so we're living on the farm and it wasn't it wasn't unusual for mom to go out grab one of the rabbits that we were raising and i'll never forget the first rabbit you know that that i washed washed her kill hung it up smacked it on the head and you know we we had rabbit for dinner

and it was there was a lot of times where it's like timothy can you go grab a chicken you know we need we need some we need dinner or whatever and you'd go out and you'd get a chicken and you'd you'd take care of it and bring it in you know there it's just part of the lifestyle that i grew up that you didn't go to the grocery store and get things you went out to the garden and you pulled off out of zucchini you know you went and pulled some tomatoes you what was really cool is the irrigation system that was there the little ditches i mean asparagus everywhere wild rhubarb i mean there's all these different kinds of things that we probably did out of necessity during that time span more so than out of yeah

we're going to live off of our farm live off off of what we create. But I think that time span taught me a lot about the reality of life and death, the reality of, hey, you can create and be completely self-sustained. You can create your own food, everything, right here, just on one tiny little farm. And then also, that's what kind of gave me a love and a passion with animals because you're raising a calf from the time it's born. You're bottle feeding it. You're feeding it all through the wintertime, you know, breaking the ice off the water trough and everything else. The next spring, you're killing it.

And then you're going to eat it. You know, so there's that whole span where you go from life to death in a five six eight month period of time and as a young kid That could be either traumatic or that could be a major life learning experience, you know And I took that as this is the way life is that's the way that's the way things happen so when I grew up and you get older and you get to college and people start throwing the Ah, you know you eat animals or this and that and the vegetarian stuff and you start learning the things of the world that's where it's like man you people are the ones that are crazy not me you know yeah there's just

so much ignorance involved in people that live in cities and you know claim that there's something wrong with people that eat animals it's the the what's wrong is factory farming there's something wrong about factory. There's something wrong about factory farming. There's something wrong about jamming a bunch of chickens into a box that's so small they can't move and they cut their beaks off so they don't peck each other's eyes out. Do they have to? That's the thing is, do they have to do that in order to provide enough food for people? That's where I don't know. That's where I'm ignorant on the subject because it's like, man, part of it is like, well,

we got to produce food. We've got to have GMOs. We got to have grain grow faster. We got to have these different things just to provide food for people. There's so many. Because we're providing food for people all over the world. So it's like, dang, where's the fine line there? You know, where's, where's the.

It's a good point. I just think that the ethics involved in, in raising animals, I think it is important. It is important. I do too. And it's important that these animals don't suffer needlessly but the idea that eating them is wrong it's like boy there's some weird it's it's a very shallow-minded argument in my opinion or the not shallow-minded but the the the exploration of that idea the exploration of that idea is it's kind of simplistic because if you just let the animals free, okay, no more livestock, no more this.

Well, what are you going to do with all those animals? Are you going to just let them roam free? And if you let them roam free, how are you planning on driving anywhere? Because if you're planning on going, do you want to keep them penned up? And you want to keep feeding them and just not eat them? Okay. Well, what are you going to do when there's too many of them? Well, there shouldn't have been that many to begin with you know or it's because of the factory farming that there

are that many pigs or that many turkeys or whatever well do you know what they're doing in the hamptons the hamptons like a really rich area i've heard it on your podcast that's the first time i heard about that they're trying to give them birth control yeah yeah they're trying to give deer birth control i mean hundreds of thousands of dollars they're doing it are they doing it yeah right now the fuck is wrong with these people they've done birth control in certain cities i think the fuck is wrong you know birth control it's like you know it's a 22 cent 308 i don't know i mean that's birth control right yeah just or arrows i mean in one of the um shows uh waddell and um uh that dude never heard of him never heard of youBone. Never heard of him. You know those guys. Never heard of him. They went to New Jersey, and they were in this residential neighborhood in New Jersey

that has a deer problem. So they were posted up on these tree stands in these people's backyards. Just fucking deer everywhere. These guys, Mark here grew up in New York. That's where I'm from. Ithaca. Oh, yeah. So that place is mobbed with deer.

Mobbed with deer. You can't even drive at night. Yeah. where i'm from new york with ithaca yeah oh yeah oh yeah so that place is mobbed mobbed deer yeah you can't even drive at night yeah so what they do is they shut down the parks and they allow you to go in after all the deer season's done and you're allowed to take up to five deer wow and it's so controlled that they want to know at the end of every day you have to log on a piece of paper part of your license what you've seen and how many where they were the guys in boston like mitch and tim were they were showing me where they were hunting right i went to visit them it's like five minutes away from new plymouth rock you know they're like hunting right there on the ocean and everything i was just like man that's crazy just overwhelmed with like urban deer

or suburban suburban deer yeah it's a big issue also with ticks because those deer are the ones that are carrying those deer ticks, and those are the ones that are carrying that Lyme disease. My wife's obsessed with ticks. Every time she talks to me on the phone, did you check yourself for ticks? Oh, babe, I can't see that far. Did you check yourself for ticks? No. Ronella and his kid both got Lyme disease.

Never heard of him. And one of his producers. Never heard of him. He got it really bad, though. I know. His kid had Bell's palsy. I don't know if you all know what he said. Oh, that's sad.

Yeah, that's crazy. It was ugly. But he was saying on the last podcast I did with him, but they did some study of ticks in the Hudson Valley. Hudson Valley, yeah. Hudson County or something. Something like 70% to 80% of them have Lyme disease. Wow.

It's a fucking epidemic. That's crazy. Well, they had stinking, whatchamacallit, Burning Man in Nevada out there. I guess a bunch of the people got West Nile disease or something from all the mosquitoes. Yeah, 16 to 23,000 people. What? Came down with West Nile. What?

All the more reason not to go to Burning Man. There's no need for any more reasons to not go to burning man there's there's no need for any more reasons to not go to burning man but if you did need one that's it yeah if i go to burning man it's to hand out soap i do find myself up on the mountain though sometimes you're like i wonder if i got any ticks but you know i've never i mean there's when i that deer i shot last week holy cow did you see the cape there's ticks everywhere just covered literally just and what's crazy is when uh after the animal dies and you're you i brought it back and I caped it out and everything, which is if you don't know what caping is, is when you take the hide for mounting.

So you take it off the head and neck and you bring it back. You tan it and you have it mounted so you can preserve your, whether it's a trophy or you can preserve your memories or whatever it is. But once it dies and it goes through the cooling process the ticks don't have anywhere warm to stay anymore and there's no blood there's nothing so they just start coming out like crazy and uh i mean there was just this pile of ticks i was like man that's do you kill them what do you do i just let them go you can't kill a tick i mean we used to when we have sheep and stuff and we'd be on the farm you'd kind of roll your fingernail over and crush them and try to kill them. Yeah, they're tough.

They're like a flea. Just don't get them on you. Yeah, they're bad. They're yucky. I don't know. I couldn't have Lyme disease. I would never know. I think you just start feeling like shit.

Some days you feel bad. Some days you feel good. Well, they say that, you know, do you remember like in the 80s or 90s, a lot of people were coming down with chronic fatigue syndrome? They linked it to Lyme disease? Yeah. Is that what you're... Yeah. People were saying, well, it was a real issue.

People were saying, oh, my friend has chronic fatigue syndrome. What does that mean? Well, sometimes people just get, for whatever reason, they're just tired all the time. Their body aches. Well, why? They don't know. Well, now they believe that a lot of those people have Lyme disease. Why?

They don't know. Well, now they believe that a lot of those people have Lyme disease. Because apparently there's a lot of doctors to this day that are reluctant to diagnose someone with Lyme disease. And that's what Ronell ran into with his kid. He was like, I think my kid's got Lyme disease. And the doctor's like, ah, don't worry about it. It's nothing. And then it turns out that he did. And he was really fucking pissed off because he brought his kid in there three times.

But they'll sure slap him on Ritalin in a hurry. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You'll put your kid on Proz times. But they'll sure slap him on Ritalin in a hurry. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Go put your kid on Prozac. Maybe it'll help his lung disease. I guarantee if I took my kid in, they'd be like, oh, he's ADD. You got to calm that kid down. I'm like, no, man.

He's a boy. No burning man was not infected with West Nile virus. See, Mark? You're full of crap. What happened? That's the Huffington Post. What did you say? I'm going to believe that one.

They found it in that area. Yeah. And some traps, but it wasn't on any people. Oh, okay. Only one case in that county. Yes. Oh. So that whole last five minutes of that segment, there were so many people out there screaming,

you guys are wrong. You're so full of crap. You're spreading lies. That's every podcast I've ever done, ever. I got news every, yeah. There's no way around that. It doesn't matter. You just got to do your thing.

So I guess it's not 16,000. It's zero. Zero. Close. Close, Mark. Well, when you think about 7 billion people on the planet, you weren't that far off. I heard. Close enough.

So back to this movement, this trend that people are having. I think a lot of it comes with people that are kind of trying to shy away from GMO foods and these people that are trying to move towards sustainability. And I think that's what's being reflected in a lot of these shows. But I find it fascinating that people are really into these shows that have never had any desire to hunt. And they accept it, especially like Life Below Zero is a really good one, and they accept how these people live because, well, hey,

those people live out in the bush. They have no choice, and it's a unique lifestyle choice instead of, hey, Tim Burnett likes to go out and shoot things and hunt them and film it. But I feel like it's the same thing. I really do. I feel like it's exactly the same thing it's just they've stylistically labeled it in a different way and it became you know a reality show about unique people does that mean i have to uh accept the hippie you know that's out there

humping like minks all over and you know transmitting diseases everywhere because that's the lifestyle that they chose you know so it's like they... They hump minks. Humping like minks. I don't know. Whatever. Some minks. Like the animal? Rogan, you're ruining my example here. I'm sorry.

I'm just saying. Just because they're saying that it's acceptable because those people interjected themselves into that lifestyle. So it's like, okay, so the people that are living a, you know, whatever lifestyle, should I accept that just because they're putting themselves

into that lifestyle? It's like, I don't know. Well, I have no problem accepting any lifestyle that doesn't intrude on mine. But when I see these reality shows, whatever you want to call them, where these people are living this sustainable life, I find it super intriguing, almost like in a primal way. I love watching those shows. I think it's there's um life below zero there's one guy i think his name is glenn and uh he lives deep in the woods okay he lives right next to this lake

and uh he doesn't have any power there's nothing no he doesn't have a fucking snowmobile like there's levels that these guys do it some guys have snow will be this one guy eric he has a snowmobile and he traps and hunts and he sells the furs and things along those lines. And so he gets some money for that for supply. And then he also guides. He's a hunting guide. But this other guy, Glenn, he's not, none of that.

I mean, he has some furs that he sells and with the money he gets bullets. And that's basically tin cans, pots and pans and things along those lines for cooking but everything he does he's chopping his own wood he makes his own fire with like one of those things he puts like the piece in his mouth with the stick so he can hold it in place and does the whole thing with the fucking with the uh it looks like one of those things you play the

violin with you know like a fire like a bow it's a fire bow. A fire bow, but it's an old school one where he holds a piece in his mouth that keeps a stick in place so he could, like a, he's got a bone piece. So he can use both hands

for the moment rather than, because normally you push down with one arm and you bow with another arm. So he bites down on it with his teeth, holds the stick in place,

and he can make a fire pretty quickly like that. It's pretty interesting to watch. But he said, hey, you know, you could lose matches lose matches matches get wet this i'll never lose so he's gone so old school like as as old school as old school gets and it's amazing it's fascinating but for this guy when he talks about it he talks about how exciting and enriching every day is for him every day has a purpose every day is you know acquiring food living off the land figuring out a way to store that food he's got this um like this meat

cooler room that he's built that's like a sod house so he has all this sod over it you know to kind of keep it essentially underground keep it cool and he has all his meat hanging in there it's just it's it's incredibly fascinating that people are like tuned into this stuff and geared and a lot of my friends that have never had any desire to hunt whatsoever watch these shows and sort of sparks that little fascination inside of them it's got to be good i mean that's got to be a good thing yeah um yeah i mean that's just like alaska the last frontier that's one that i really like yeah and i think that one's kind of twofold the reason i like it is one because the cast members the characters you know they're pretty pretty interesting and i like i like that but

two it's it's the subsistence lifestyle yeah subsistence lifestyle yeah that that's a an interesting one too because there's different people that are in that family that do it different ways like the one guy otto's a cattle rancher and he's got his cattle and then there's the son who just decides no cattle ranching just going to go off for hunting but do the whole thing you know good luck yeah good luck well you need it can be done but man it's not as easy as people would think it is. It's a 24-hour proposition. And then there was one just on Discovery Channel. It must have only ran for a few weeks called The Hunt or something, where they were documenting or following outfitters or something.

That's James Hatfield from Metallica was the host of it. He was one of the guys. He got a lot of flack for going on there or something. But it's like, you know, the mainstream networks, and I guess that's kind of a frustration too, is like, well, why can't a hunting show go mainstream? Why can't a typical hunting show go mainstream? Well, I don't know if society would accept that or not at a mainstream level, and yet the Discovery Channel can come out with a series like that

that is hunting, and it's bears, you know, they're hunting bears. It's like, why is that okay for Discovery Channel to do that, but for me to go out and, you know, kill hunting bears it's like how why did why is that okay for discovery channel to do that but for me to go out and you know kill a deer and elk i think it's changing that's why i brought that up and i was going to bring up the hunt because i think it is changing they tried to get james hatfield removed from the glastonbury music festival because he hosts the hunt and they used a photograph that they said was him standing over a grizzly bear, but it wasn't even him. It's not him. But pull that photo up.

You know that photo of that guy who is the actual hunter? He's been sort of going out publicly and promoting this. Like, I don't know why these anti-hunters use this photo of a guy who kind of sort of looks like James Hadfield, but it's not James Hadfield at all. So it's complete bullshit. What he's doing is just narrating it. They took into this idea, and they ran with it, and they're being really dishonest with it. This is the guy.

See, and they're promoting that as James Hadfield. Just because he was the narrator behind the series. Yeah, and, well, he kind of looks like him a little bit, but it's not James Hadfield at all. That's James Hatfield. Just because he was the narrator behind the series. Yeah, and well, he kind of looks like him a little bit, but it's not James Hatfield at all. That's James Hatfield. I mean, James Hatfield does hunt, but that's not him standing over that grizzly bear. So the entire premise

of this thing that they were doing to try to get people off of, or get Metallica removed from this music festival was just a bullshit photograph. Have you had anything against you for you going hunting?

Oh, yeah. Like anything publicly where it's like, don't let Rogan, you know, don't let him do anything with UFC anymore. No. How could you do that? Cage fighting? That's the thing about being a cage fighting commentary. You're already doing something so fucked up.

You know, you're involved in what some people think is human cockfighting. They don't really care if you go out and shoot animals. But yeah, I've had people angry at me, definitely. People call me a piece of shit, especially for the bear. The bear was a bit – there's a photo of me and Cam standing over this bear I shot. And I got more heat for that than anything I ever did. I think it's because people have this what they call anthropomorphication i think is the word where they connect uh animals to with human characteristics like yogi bear and fucking all

these ridiculous you and we grew up that way we grew up loving those animals you know yeah and they have this idea of what wildlife is that's completely alien from wildlife itself. Those folks that I went bear hunting with, Cameron Haynes and the Rivets, Johnny and Jenny Rivet, they run this Live in the Dream outfitter company up in Alberta. The nicest fucking people you ever want to meet in your life. And they have animals. They have dogs. They love their dogs.

They have a puppy. Like people who don't understand hunting would never imagine that these people go out shoot bears all day and come home pet their puppy you know it's like to them it seems like completely contradictory and alien like how do you decide what animals you're shooting and what animals you're you're petting and i can respect i mean you can see why i mean my wife's the same way she's like how can you love animals so much and uh you know when you see a deer hit on the side of the road you're like oh man that sucks it's real and then the next week you go out and kill one she's like i don't get that and i'm like well it's it's it's hunting it's not killing you know she eat meat she eats meat yeah yeah she uh she's funny she'll try to like i'll cook up some elk steak or something and i'll be like and i i gotta admit i'm not a ranella i'm not you know

remi's a great cook but i'm like i'm one of those guys i'm not a ranella i'm not you know remy's a great cook but i'm like i'm one of those guys i want a slab of meat i'm going to put it on the grill it's going to hit 120 degrees whatever and i'm going to eat it you know i mean that's it's like i don't want to spend my time preparing food i just want to eat it and so some of the stuff i cook doesn't taste that great you know and that's where it's like but it's meat you know and it's meat that i killed and meat that i brought home so i'm gonna eat it but to her it's like where it's like, but it's meat, you know, and it's meat that I killed and meat that I brought home. So I'm going to eat it. But to her, it's like, oh, it's a waste of time. So, you know, if I spent more time preparing it and aging it and doing whatever needs to be done with it rather than just cooking it and eating it, she might taste it.

But who knows? So she doesn't eat your game meat? No, I cooked one time where I was like, babe, this is the best. It was tenderloin from an elk. Granted, I cooked it on the grill like I probably shouldn't have, and it was doused with barbecue sauce. I mean, you couldn't tell. I couldn't tell because I was like, I want this to taste exactly like beef,

which it did. She chewed on it, took one bite into it, and spit it out, blah, blah, blah. Of course, my boy sees this. He's like, I don't ever want to eat deer ever again, Dad, because Mom spit it out. It's like, course my boy sees this so he's like i don't ever want to eat deer ever again dad you know because mom spit it out it's like no no no no mom just doesn't like it but that's i don't know what it is interesting i hammer on it all the time i'm like babe just try it but she's like you can't even cook that in the house you know don't even cook it in the house so she won't let you cook it in the house she will i mean she will it's not i mean i wear the

pants around there damn it he's gonna try to reclaim power here like please let me be the man no but yeah she's like if you're gonna cook that go outside so it's like that's fine i'll put it on the grill and i'll chew the crap out of it and i'll i'll eat it and i enjoy it well my my wife grew up in a hunting family so she's used to eating like wild game she likes it and our kids have been eating it since uh i started hunting two years ago so when uh my my youngest daughter was two it was like the first time she had deer so she's been eating deer since then like they they'll eat anything oh my kids my kids have been raised on i mean they've eaten more wild game than a lot of kids i'm sure they just don't know you know it's the same it's meat meat when

we cook meat it's meat whether it's a deer an elk right chicken whatever my two-year-old she's everything's chicken more chicken more chicken you know and it could be it could be a buffalo for all it doesn't matter everything's chicken yeah it's it's a weird thing where people have this uh like this connection with some animals or like your friends and some animals like you should you should never hunt this like I have an agent

she's a very nice person she loves animals but she told me oh I don't mind if you kill pigs wild pigs are disgusting they're so ugly like she's

she's like they're ugly you can kill them because they're ugly I'm like is it their fault that they're ugly that's the thing

that kind of it ticks me off because like the network promotes us a porkalypse crap oh yeah and i have here's the thing a little background story to this i grew up on a on a farm obviously at one time we had a hog operation we had hundreds of pigs you know whatever but like i have a love for pigs i love the i love animals they got personalities they're really cool you know i mean they're they're cool and so when i see somebody who will rename nameless on a tv show big man shoot one arrow through two pigs and that's okay but yet if i shoot one arrow through two deer you know even if it's legal or two whatever it's not okay and then the very next minute shoot you know a weanling 10 pound pig in the head with a pellet rifle,

and watch it sit there and flail on the ground. That's bull crap. Because I have a relationship with that little pig. It's like, don't show me that. Do it. You can do it. I don't care. Don't show me that.

Don't show public that. Because to me, I think the worst enemies for hunters and hunting television are hunters and hunting television. We're our worst advocate. And I say we. I lump us all in broad strokes. But it's like there's so many out there doing things that, yeah, it's the reality of it, but it's not what needs to be seen. I know what you're saying, and I'm going to explain it to people who don't know what you're saying.

There are certain shows, and there's one show called Pig Man. I wasn't going to say it. I said it. I said it. Sorry, Matt. know what you're saying um there there are certain shows and there's one show called pig man and i wasn't gonna say i said it i said it sorry matt um anyway uh pig man he what they're doing a lot is population control rather than hunting and they are shooting animals but they're shooting animals that have overrun these farms so some of them when you were saying a porkalypse what they're doing is they're getting these helicopters we've played video of it it's the craziest shit ever of him and nugent up in helicopters with fucking automatic rifles taking out pigs like in mass they shot 450 of them or

something in a day once it's the craziest thing you've ever seen these pigs are running and then boom headshot as they're running they're tumbling and it's not about like we're going to go out and shoot an animal harvest it and then use it and eat it and you know and show the hunting lifestyle no it's it's like it's a murder fest yes like pigs have a past because of what they are you know what what they're doing because they're causing billion probably billions of dollars in damage to crop crops and that so it's like it's like pigs pigs have been removed from the game animal category they're vermin it's like a cat it's like a coyote they're varmints yeah but i will say probably on those shows i guarantee they have to you know that meat has to be used somewhere taken taken and donated and processed they can't just leave them lay i mean that's i don't think so but when

you're dealing with 450 of them do they even have the resources to gather up all they better because if they're shooting that many hogs they're not doing anything with it to me that's bullcrap yeah they've got to have the resources just like in new zealand when they go in and call out you know the the wild deer and that in there because there's no predators they have the resources to go in with a chopper and pull it out and they they they harvest that meat so if they're shooting 450 pigs bastards better have a way to to keep that meat because that's ridiculous if they don't in my opinion my opinion yeah i well i agree with you because it's a massive waste of great meat yeah wild pig is absolutely delicious it's really good for you it's completely different from domestic pig in the way it looks because these animals are eating all kinds of different

natural things roots and and grasses and they're not just eating grain. It's not like white. It's not like a white meat. That was the thing that they had this thing, pork, the other white meat. You remember that campaign? If you ever see a wild pig, folks, it's not white. It's not white at all. It's fucking red.

I mean, it's not as red as a deer, but it's a dark meat. It's because it's healthy. We should invest in a barbecue house and just go and put a barbecue house in Texas and then just go kill all the wild pigs and use that to get all your meat. That's what Pigman does. Is that what he does? I saw that show he had.

I was going to call it that stupid series on Discovery Channel. Here I go again. Don't worry about it. I saw this and it's like, you know, the whole concept behind it is cool, but it's just, you know. Well, it's a reality show. They were doing that. They were killing the hog and then going and providing it to this barbecue house.

He had his own barbecue place. Yeah. Which is a great idea. Yeah. But I don't think it's totally legal. At least it might be in Texas. You can't sell wild game. Like if I kill an elk, I can't sell it.

Yeah. Which is a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. But is a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. But I can donate it. And I tell you, the amount of traveling and hunting that I do, I donate a lot of meat, you know, in a lot of different places. Yeah, a lot of hunters do.

Yes. But don't you think that like wild pigs, if they became a revenue source like that, if they had a restaurant, if they have an animal that is so completely overpopulated and overrun that they don't have any tag limits which pigs are at right now you could just go and shoot fucking pigs all day long and they'll they'll be happy for you including california which is like one of the most liberal states ever which has all sorts of crazy regulations on animals that need to be called and aren't like there's real issues here with mountain lions. There's a real issue with people that don't want people to hunt mountain lions, and they don't understand how ridiculously overpopulated these fucking things are getting.

These poor people that are running farms have to deal with these animals coming in and just decimating the population of their calves, the game animals, the people that will tell you about when mountain lion hunting was legal in comparison now, and then the deer population levels, there's no comparison. Right. I mean, they're fucking everywhere, man. At Tohon Ranch, where I've been pig hunting before, the guy who was our guide told us that he has a trail camera set up over this water hole, and he got 16 different mountain

lions on camera that's fucking crazy do you know how many deer a mountain lion's gonna eat in a week yeah one every couple days yeah it's unbelievable how many mountain lions they have and it's because you can't hunt them and that is when you have a predator that can't you can't if we're going to be the stewards of the land which is what most people look if you're going to accept that we have regulations on game we have regulations on on you know fish that you can pull for the ocean we're supposed to be managing the population of these animals in a smart intelligent way and that's good conservation but when you remove some animals from that management simply because of public opinion non-informed public opinion of people who are animal lovers, that's ridiculous.

You can't do that. That's contrary to the very nature of conservation in the first place. Conservation isn't simply, oh, we need to preserve the habitat and give these animals food and make sure their water's not polluted. Sure, that's most certainly a part of it and for people who don't know hunters have been responsible for way more money that goes to conserving wildlife habitat conserving wetlands than any other group by far it's not even close no no like tree hugger conservation group has come close to generating the amount of money that has gone into conservation as hunters have. But because you're controlling populations of deer, controlling populations of elk, pigs, all that's good.

But you've got to control fucking predators too. And they're realizing that now in a lot of these states where they reintroduce wolves. And people are fighting against people hunting wolves. You better fucking go online and research those giant super packs of wolves in Siberia that storm a farm and kill a hundred horses, and no one could do a goddamn thing about it because you've got a thousand wolves. Can you imagine being in a fucking farm, and you're looking out the window, and you see a pack of wolves just tearing apart horses and no one could do anything about it well that's what happens when shit gets out of line and that's the way wolves

work too you know they'll generate those super packs there's a great story from world war one where the russians and the germans had a ceasefire they were in they were in the woods in russia they had a ceasefire because so many of them were getting killed by wolves no way they would send out these packs they would send out rather these um these uh parties would like like search parties at two two men at a time and they would never come back and they would go out and they'd find their clothes torn apart covered in blood and they realized oh my god these guys are getting taken out by wolves they were getting targeted by wolves so when they would have small numbers these guys had rifles They were fucking soldiers And the wolves were eating them

I mean and so Stop talking about wolves Wolves are fucking scary Dude Talking to a guy that spends a lot of time in the wild alone Tell me Next week Next week I will be camping

Where there's a lot of wolves By myself And it's like Where are you going? I'm not afraid of bears as much Or mountain lions or anything Wolves scare the crap out of me You know wolves and lightning I don't know what it is But What mountain lions or anything. Wolves scare the crap out of me. You know, wolves and lightning.

I don't know what it is. What is it about wolves? Wolves because there's so much unknown about modern wolves. We know about, you know, wolves of history, old, you know, and in times like that when there were super packs and all that. Well, they're just now being reintroduced and there's a whole new generation, my generation included, that we don't know and understand wolves and how they hunt and how they are evolving. And so to me, there's just so much eerie about them, so much unproven. I could be that first guy that does get attacked and killed by a wolf that's there because there's more people now too. because there's more people now too.

So there's more of a chance of a wolf being conditioned to people or public than there ever has been before. So I think that it's just, it's a different animal today than it was 100 years ago or 200 years ago. And the thought of me, you know, me or a hunter somewhere in there, you get a pack that's just in the wrong mentality that maybe hasn't been hunted that much or hasn't been pressured that much because you're you're way back in the wilderness you know they may be a little bit more aggressive than than what you would like you know so they just kind of creep me out a little bit they should creep you out in the 1400s is a story called the wolves the wolves

of paris have you ever heard that story no i haven't yeah wolves killed 40 people in paris to the point where people had to right in the in the city of paris they had killed 40 people in Paris to the point where people had to- Oh, that's right. In the city itself. In the city of Paris, they had killed 40 people. And there was a man-eaten wolf pack in 1450, and the animals entered the city during the winter through breaches in its walls. This is so crazy.

And this one, they had eventually cornered the wolves, and they were killing them with stones and spears in front of the Notre Dame Cathedral. That's insane. It's a fucking crazy story. That's like taking coyotes of today, because there's coyotes roaming around here probably, and turn them into wolves. If that's a wolf in that environment, that's crazy. Yeah. Well, even scarier, because they're obviously a lot bigger and creepier. But people throughout history

have had real issues with wolves. But today we associate wolves with being dogs. We think of them as dogs. Like anybody would hunt a wolf as an asshole. What do you think the Little Red Riding Hood story, why was that about a wolf? Why was that about a wolf? Why is it the big bad wolf?

Why is it the three little pigs and the big bad wolf? Because wolves were a fucking issue. You'd go into the woods and the thing you'd be worried about was wolves yeah do you want your kid not to be able to walk to school because there's wolf roam in the the area you know or whatever it's like yeah i don't know but people don't want people hunting wolves it's one of the biggest blowbacks it's well it goes back to what you just said you know said earlier and it's not exactly the same thing but you're like you don't care what lifestyle people lead as long as it doesn't affect you same same concept here people don't give a crap about other stuff as long as it doesn't affect them so it's like they can we all we all fall into it a little bit is we can be hypocritical

and say you know i don't like this and i don't like this and this because that's going to affect me but if somebody wants to if you know if they want to go out and do this that's going to affect me. But if somebody wants to, if, you know, if they want to go out and do this, that's fine. I don't care. You know, so they look at it as, well, I guess I don't know where I'm going. I just kind of lost that to you. No, but you're right. They're like the people that don't interact with those wolves. Yeah, don't kill wolves because the wolves don't hurt me. The wolves don't bother my kids walking to school.

So don't kill the wolves. Well, yeah, but, you know, my kid might get pounced on by a mountain lion because we live in the rural countryside you know well not only that you have to keep their populations down for the health of all the other animals that are around them as well like they can start decimating wildlife populations they've done that with elk they've done that with deer in the areas where they've been reintroduced the numbers of elk have drastically dude i'm from idaho man i know that full full on the valley where i grew up i mean in the late 90s early 2000s i mean elk elk it was elk hunting heaven there was elk coming down in our eaten out of our cattle feeder you know right at the back of mom and dad's house you know there

was elk everywhere and uh the hunting was awesome and they weren't bothering the crops or anything well then the wolves come in can you imagine can you picture a herd of elk you know and all of a sudden there's oh there's a real big dog over there oh that's a big coyote the coyote starts picking them off and it takes them quite a while before they learn and condition themselves that hey that's not a coyote that's something different so those herds were just standing they were just it's like a turkey shoot they had never experienced wolves no they'd experienced mountain or mountain lions coyotes and bears which don't hunt like wolves do they don't hunt in packs so a pack of wolves comes in they think there's those damn coyotes again whoa where'd jimmy go you know what's

going on here and the next thing you know it takes them years to condition themselves to where now elk hunting today is different than it was 15 years ago because the elk act differently i mean there's certain instances where it's similar but they're a different animal to hunt today than they were 20 years ago have you ever been uh hunting in any way and had a kill and had to keep a predator off the kill yeah so uh i was hunting deer white-tailed deer actually in northern idaho with a bow this is in like 2008 2009 something like that and i was filming the hunt you know this was before i started the tv show but at that time i already had the concept of solo hunter in mind so

i'm filming everything and it just the light like it's dark and so i go to take the camera off the the arm that i had and i flipped the switch and the camera down the bottom of the tree crushed so i was like crap well then a deer comes out i'm like well i'm going home tomorrow anyway so i grabbed my bow thumped the deer and i'm sitting there and the deer kind of goes over and starts to do the wobble thing well next thing you know a bear pulls out a black bear comes up and takes the deer down immediately pulls it over this hillside and i'm like that was pretty dang cool i wish and i was just i was more mad at myself than awestruck because i was like i dropped my damn camera out of the tree and i could have filmed that but um so i was more mad at myself than awestruck because I was like, I dropped my damn camera out of the tree and I could have filmed that.

So I was more like just upset. So I thought, no big deal. I'll just climb down, go down, spook the bear off, get my deer, go home. No big deal. So I go and I'm trailing this deer and all I've got is my flashlight in one hand and my bow in the other. And I can hear the bear sliding it down the hillside. And it's a pretty steep grade. And I'm like, bear, making noise, doing whatever.

Because I'd have experiences with bears. And it wasn't that big of a deal. But then everything got quiet. And then I was like, and where I screwed up was I picked up the phone and called my wife. Hey, babe, I'm trailing a deer. I'll be home tomorrow. What's going on? I'm like, oh, this bear took it.

And I was like, oh, stupid. Why would you say that? Because then from then on, I was like, ah. And and so from then on my wife's been freaked out about bears but so i'll finish the story but so i'm i'm trailing all of a sudden things get super quiet i'm like ah good the bear just kind of ran off i'm gonna go find my deer and i stood up on this uh this stump it was kind of a logged area i stood up on this stump and i'm looking around with this flashlight just kind of panning around looking for the deer and all of a sudden i hear heard just kind of a noise i'm like like this right at the base of that stump that bear was on top of that deer and he's just like

he just hoofed one time i just how far away from you oh four or five feet six feet i don't know i mean it was close right i mean i'm standing on the stump and he's on this side on top of the deer so i just kind of jumped back and went back up. I'm like, what was I thinking? Going after a bear that just took down a deer that thinks that's a deer he just took down, so he's going to be like defending it. And I was like, you stupid fool. You could have been over right there.

So the next morning I go in, no big deal, daylight. The bear doesn't have big cojones during the day, I guess, but he just ran off. I grabbed the deer. I have that on film. Actually, if you look at the first solo hunter episode, it's episode 101. It's got that where I kill a deer, but then I do a flashback of the year before when I was filming that hunt, and I've got my little handy cam that I filmed. You can see all the scratches all over the deer, and you can see where the bear had eaten it out from the hind end and all that kind of stuff. How much of the deer did the bear eat?

He had only eaten part of the hind quarters. They always go in through the butthole and through the soft tissue. But you could see where he had scratched it up and where he had drug it down and just ate part of the hind quarters. But for the most part, the deer was fine, salvageable. So I just cut him up and took him home. hindquarters but you know for the most part the deer was fine salvageable so i just cut him up and took him home so when you when you have an animal like that that another animal is eating part of it do you worry about it being contaminated anyway is there any concern i didn't even think about it there i mean obviously you're cooking it above a certain temperature anyway but i didn't

even think about that i don't i don't even know honestly if that could have been an issue you know with a bear eating eating the meat i don't know you think anybody out there know if i could have been an issue, you know, with a bear eating the meat. I don't know. Anybody out there know if I could have gotten sick? Do you cut around? Maybe that's why I have troubles getting out of bed in the morning. Something's wrong with my eyeballs. Do you cut out around the airway? Yeah, I cut out.

You know, it's just, I don't know. I didn't even think about that. The rivets that I told you about, the guys up in northern Canada, they shot a bear and it was getting dark, and so they went back in the morning to recover it, and another larger bear was eating it while they got there. And they're like, oh, great. That's crazy.

That's a real issue up there with cannibalism. Cannibalism is standard. It's just going to get worse. As the numbers increase, it can only get worse can't it i mean until they get and get disease or you know and have a die off i mean because nature has a kind of a way of taking care of itself maybe before man came along anyway there was how many millions of buffalo roaming the countryside and i'm sure there were areas where a disease or something was spread and there was a die off and so the herds moved off and split off

and that's how that's kind of how animals maybe maybe moved across the countryside is is different elements of of nature that happened you know so we look at this as we're like you know i'm on this earth for 80 90 years hopefully well that's that's nothing in evolution of animals or in the the how how a herd or or or certain species might evolve in an area. An elk herd could grow up to a certain number, and then it could have a die-off because of sickness. Then it could grow again. Well, that might take 100 years for that process.

So for us to actually see that population curve. But then that's when you start talking about introducing the wolves. That population curve takes a big dive quick. But, you know. What was the logic behind reintroducing wolves bureaucracy i guess i don't know because wolves are cute and cuddly and they want them in yellowstone because it's a park but oh there's no fences around yellowstone i didn't know that did you know that there's no fences around yellowstone i mean grizzly's the next next thing we got grizzlies

in idaho that are starting to cause issues and you know there's there's there's all kinds of instances in montana that grizzly's the next animal to start causing issues, I believe, just because for some reason now it seems like nature is at its prime for bear populations to grow. You look at bear numbers, hog numbers, all these populations of animals numbers continue to steadily grow massively. And I think that's just the natural curve of where we're at, that if we weren't involved in managing it or anything, it had hit that precipice where diseases and cannibalism and all these things would take over and nature would curve itself back down to get sustainable numbers. Or they would just eat themselves out of home.

When you stumbled upon that bear and that bear was like four feet away from you with the deer did you just back out of there i just backed away yeah i just like whoa went back up and then uh slept in my truck that night and then the next morning i just kind of went around i had my and brought in my gun and uh just a couple shots on the hillside the bear runs off you you get the deer did you ever watch that show the hunt i did i watched one or two episodes of it. And my problem is, as I look at it, I'm ruined because as a producer, I watch everything as a producer rather than as a viewer. And so it kind of, I hate that because I can't ever watch something and get true entertainment out of it or true value out of it. Well, yeah, I know what you mean. But it was badly produced, in my opinion.

I agree. I felt like, first of all, they kept using this fake bear sound the same sound over and over again they would interject it and you knew that they were interjecting it because all of a sudden like there would be like a shaky camera why is a bear going to be growling and exactly roaring a bear is going to be damn silent until he's ready to kill you and they would do it over and over again right before they cut to commercial like so they like to get you to like would do it over and over again right before they cut to commercial like so they like to get you to like tune in like the camera's shaking but you know what i guarantee everybody watching that's like oh bears make noise in the wild and that's the problem with shows like you know like that

that they're putting on the mainstream there was one called chasing tails on there for a while on on a and e or one of those where it's like everybody associates hunters as flannel wearing overweight middle-aged bearded men you know and we're not we're businessmen we're regular people or whatever you know you there's all these types of people that are hunters that are outdoorsmen but society sees us as bubba well in movies too they're like it's because that's how it's portrayed wolverine movie they're assholes that had poisoned the deer hunters are ass are assholes. Bears. Did you know that? I didn't know. But drunks, they're usually drunk.

And that's because it's the same concept as, you know, Disney portrayed animals as people. So we think of animals as people. Well, Hollywood and whatever else portrays hunters as the dumbest, yeah, the most simple-minded drunk. the dumbest yeah the most simple-minded when in reality you look at you look at the science and the management behind conservation and wildlife conservation it's not stupid stuff you know no it's not stupid stuff at all it's very calculated contraceptives for deer that's stupid stuff yeah that's birth control for deer that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars when deer are delicious.

Yeah. So they're running around. Instead of just having hunters come in and shoot them with bows and arrows or crossbows, whatever, you could control the population like that. It would only take a couple of weekends. And they could do big numbers and get a lot of meat out of it. Instead, they're going to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and give them birth control. What do you think is the answer for people? what i mean what is it going to take for have you ever if you've ever

convinced somebody that hunting is okay i mean what's the answer what's what's the main thing how can we how can we educate people to where it's like you know what hunting is not what what you've been taught what you think it is what certain people say it is well i try to do it well i don't i'm not trying to educate people but in discussing it and people listening to these discussions they kind of get a more nuanced balanced perspective and i know for a fact that there's a lot of people that post on my message board that have talked about how they had one opinion of hunting before the podcast and a completely different opinion of it now and they also never factored in the hypocrisy of wearing leather,

having a leather couch, leather seats in your car, leather jacket, and then complaining about hunting. They don't, we're disconnected. And that disconnection has led us to be like spoiled little kids. We don't understand where all this is coming from.

We don't have a direct interaction with the food itself. And when you do have a direct interaction with the food itself and when you do have a direct interaction with the food itself when you've killed the animal yourself the whole process is a completely different thing i you know i'm eating an animal that i stalked shot butchered sliced up put into packages vacuum sealed it put it in my freezer thawed it out cooked it ate it from a to z it's been in my hands and that's a completely different experience than 99 of anyone who eats meat is ever going to have and i encourage people i think if you could do it if you have the time i think a lot of people don't know where to start that's one thing yeah they don't yeah i'm doing i've got some friends right now there's

three of them that are just starting starting out hunting last year they killed their first deer you know and it's it's funny to it's not i say funny it's it's interesting to see their their evolution because they're like searching youtube for everything they're like well how would you do this how would you do that and i'm like i don't know i just do it they're like well they had to search on youtube to find out how to gut a deer and so they have this little video clip of them gutting this deer and trying to take it all apart it's the funniest thing but it's like well these are grown men figuring it out on their own there's nobody out there to teach them there's no schools that are like hey you want to be a hunter come to my school you know pay tuition do this and it's like if you want to learn it's got to

be hands-on it's got you've got to have a mentor you've got to have because i get emails like that all the time how do i get started how i live in i live in uh arizona and i hunt these mountain ranges how do i find the deer because i spend countless hours trying to find deer how would you hunt this area i don't know i don't live there you know you'd have to there's a lot of information they're asking for too you'd have to go there you'd have to tell them and how much do you know you'd have to explain to them what deer habitat is where they where their nest where they bed rather and there's also it's interesting but it sort of, there's a comparison to be made for you learning how to use computer software to edit video. You just taught yourself.

If you want to do it, you just got to kind of figure it out and teach yourself. And the cool thing about today is you can watch those YouTube videos. I mean, back in the the day what would you have done you've gotten a book or something and try to like look at the diagrams do what i did you start cutting bloody hands and yeah start cutting stuff comes out you can fuck things up like that just start cutting right yeah you know mess yourself up and you get the tarsal glands all over the meat and smell like shit and you know there's a lot of people that ruin meat because they don't understand the proper preparation and how to take care of it once they actually kill an animal yeah there's a

there's a lot to it and i think talking about it is real good i think it's important to have guys like you on and ranella and cameron haynes and and jim shocky when he comes on so people get an understanding of who these people are that actually are hunters, that they're not those flannel shirt wearing yokels that you see in these really cartoonish and character, you know, caricature, caricature, caricature, caricature, caricature. Why am I saying turature? Caricature. The caricatures of hunters, these cartoonish shitheads i think yeah i think

you're smart by having somebody like shocky because he's he's at a different he's a different person than me or steve or remy or cameron you know we're we're different than what he is he's something special in that even if you took that man outside of the hunting industry and put him into something else if he was an oil man or, if he was a cattle man or whatever, he's got a personality about him and a philosophical way of speaking and knowledge about him that he's going to educate people just based off of what he knows and how he's going to say something. He and I could say the exact same things, but the way he says it, you're going to be like,

damn, I get that. The way I say it, you're going to be like, that guy's a fool. Tim, you're a little hard on yourself. i'm just i'm trying to build up shocky here i mean i know the guy needs every bit of it he can get right you know guys like me we got it all it's like no what i'm saying is i'm glad you're having him and i'm gonna it's definitely a podcast i'm gonna be tuning into because i like his philosophy behind not only hunting but life and also behind you know family and everything else yeah i do as well i think he's a i think he's a great person for that you know and i think it's gonna i think that's the

type of person that for broad society is your spokesperson well somebody like that is a great one as well because he's so well read he's a great writer and super educated super educated and a guy who really truly cares about about environments, really, truly cares about hunting, really, truly cares about conservation. And he's a guy that's in fucking fantastic shape. I mean, I went hunting with him, and the one thing that I was blown away with is how physically demanding hunting is. Like, hiking. I looked at hiking. I'm like, that's for fucking people.

Don't really work out. Bunch of pussies It's just walking But uphill It's fucking hard man Especially when you're Holding a rifle So you're not swinging

Your arms You got to pack on Like you get exhausted Quick Did you have to pack Your deer out Or was it like In an area where

You didn't have to Break it down And put it in your pack What do you mean Your deer when you Hunted in Montana Did you have to Break it down

And pack it out On your back Yeah Well there's three of us It was me Callan And Rinella So my friend Brian Callan What do you mean? Your deer when you hunted in Montana. Did you have to break it down and pack it out on your back? Yeah. There's three of us. It was me, Callan, and Rinella, my friend Brian Callan. When we went to get my deer, we shot it that night, gutted it, took the liver and the heart, cooked that that night, and then put it up in a tree.

We hung it in a juniper tree. We went there to get it in the morning because it was kind of late. We had seen some mountain lion shit in the area. It was kind of disconcerting. Big ropey shit filled with hair. Yeah, but the mountain lions had been hunted in that area, so they probably wouldn't even come close to you. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Yeah, good.

I don't like those fucking things. I've seen two mountain lions in my life. Have you really? Do you have one? Well, you're in California, I guess. No, I never shot one. I lived in Colorado. Yeah, you did.

I saw the picture on social media. Come on, man. Yeah, I killed her with a belt. Yeah, yeah. That's what I heard. So silly. I heard you took your gi off and strangled it. My own sister asked me if I killed a mountain lion.

Really? Yeah, I'm like, what the fuck do you think? Kill a mountain lion with a belt? You're kidding me? Kill a house cat with a belt? Try to get a house cat. Hold on to that fucker and kill it with a belt. That thing will scratch a house cat with a belt try to get a house cat hold on to that fucker and kill with a belt that thing will scratch your eyes out yeah yeah it's 150 pound house cat are you fucking crazy i've seen two i saw one in colorado uh really briefly it's just

like both of them been about the same size like 60 70 pounds like dog size and the other one i saw in montecito which is like a residential area in santa barbara i was driving on the street we saw this thing run across the street and first we thought it was a coyote then i saw the tail his tail's like bobbing around i'm like oh shit that's a cat and it had a more of a bouncy way like coyotes have that sort of stiff yeah fucking creepy scared to death shitty way of You ever seen a coyote sleep? No. That's because they don't.

They're too used to getting shot at and chased down. Can you imagine being a coyote? That's like the worst life ever. It's a sucky life. Other than like a rabbit. I'd rather be a rabbit than a coyote. For real? Because people have rabbits for pets.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they're dirty. They're stinky fucking little animals. I got a coyote cushion at home, like a pillow that's covered in coyote skin. It's gross. It's like sleeping on a dog. So why do you have it?

My wife bought it. It's not mine. She's like, I like coyotes. Well, she ordered a couple different kinds of animal skins that were converted into pillows. She hates coyotes, so for whatever reason, she got a coyote one. Yeah. She's like, babe, I brought home this animal skin couch. That's a sheep, babe.

It's a sheep tarpon. Well, we have chickens. We have 24 chickens. So we have this fencing area where the coyotes are trying to figure out how to get to the chickens. So we'll find them near our backyard all the time. And she loves these chickens. She takes care of them. So she particularly hates coyotes because they're always trying to figure out a way to sneak in you know they've

killed dogs in our neighborhood before you know they'll snatch one off a leash i have a friend who lives in uh brentwood which is another residential area and his neighbor was walking her dog she had like a little dog walk and she heard click click click click click click click click she didn't know what it was she thought it was like a dog you walking. She heard click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click. She didn't know what it was. She thought it was like a dog, you know, behind her. And the coyote just ran up, snatched the dog right off of her fucking leash and ran. That's a hungry dog. That's a hungry coyote. It was running away with her dog.

Like the dog was just trying to, and she's screaming and the leash is being dragged behind. And it's just running with her dog. Oh, sad. Yeah, sad and weird. screaming and the leash is being dragged behind and it's just running with her dog you know yeah sad and weird it's weird that there's those creepy predators are wandering around street and it just decided to bust a move like this is the time yeah time yeah i got bit by a coyote did you really yeah yeah i was uh i don't know trying to fuck it and uh just yeah no 11th grade 11th grade yeah it was a long time ago but i was doing the dishes and look outside it was about five o'clock Trying to fuck it. No, 11th grade. 11th grade. Whoa. Yeah, it was a long time ago.

But I was doing the dishes and look outside. It was about 5 o'clock in the afternoon. And I'm looking. We lived in a trailer park. So the trailer next door, there was a coyote underneath. They're just batting around, playing around with some toys and all kinds of balls and stuff. So I get out, and I had a.22. Go around the backside, and I see him, and he jumped up at the close on the clothesline,

and I rifled like two or three at him, and I missed. He ran straight into the woods. I went back in. I had a freaking rabbit call, like a distress call. Whoa. Yeah, I shot back probably 200 yards, and I got up against a tree, and I started blowing that freaking thing,

and sure as shit, that thing came running right at me, and he backed got up against a tree, and I started blowing that freaking thing. And sure as shit, that thing came running right at me, and he backed me up against the tree, and I lift my foot up, and he latched right onto my boot. And I shot him point blank, and I emptied out the whole entire clip. Whoa. Yeah. And it didn't smell like skunk really bad. It smelled like a coyote.

But, yeah, there was a lot of hair missing off of it but though it was weird because that week before i had uh two two little dachshunds in the family and i like we used to let them outside no leash they go take a shit come back only one came back and uh we think that maybe he you know he may have took him yeah most likely right yeah we never got it back last week in silicon valley a mountain lion viciously mauled a six-year-old boy. Some kid was hiking with his parents, and the kid was behind them, and a mountain lion came up behind and attacked the kid. The parents yelled at it and screamed and chased after the mountain lion

and just tried to hit it, and it dropped the kid and ran off, but the kid got fucked up. Yeah, I heard that. They scared it away, so then they set hunters loose on this cat and dogs and everything like that. This is another issue that they have with mountain lions in California because they're not hunting them. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, it is crazy.

It's crazy how people have this idea that there are these beautiful things, and they are beautiful. They're interesting. They're fascinating, but you you got to keep those fuckers in check you know and that's a real issue with people that don't understand wildlife they just have these liberal points of view that's based on no reasoning no logic not a balanced perspective no real true understanding of wildlife their understanding is just based on what they think is right what they think is it's you leave them alone there's natural animals yeah and then you go hiking and you're gonna get eaten you fuck do you understand that they're big giant monsters if those were werewolves you would be sending packs of fucking military people

In the woods To try to kill the werewolf Well a mountain lion's Way fucking scary Than a werewolf Because it's not just A mountain lion One day out of the month

Okay The wolf man Turns into the wolf man When the full moon comes out Mountain lions Wake up every morning A mountain lion I'm a mountain lion

I'm gonna kill something And they kill big things With their face They're used to killing Deer and elk And shit That runs really fast And they kill it with their face and you're you're content with those things wandering around because they just look beautiful that's ridiculous i'm not saying that

we should wipe them off the face of the earth but we should come really close there should be like four left yeah yeah four left all of them in oklahoma you know radio yeah leave them with oklahoma the tags on. We have a fucking group of scientists that are monitoring their progress on a screen. Whenever they come anywhere near a person, they're thrown in. I think hunters would be glad to take the place of the mountain lions and keeping the population in check for sure. Yes, and eat that meat and use it for people. I'm on team people.

I like people. Team man? Team human. That's right. I like people way better than other animals. I think animals are amazing. People are way better. You can talk to them.

They make you laugh. You hang out with them. There are species. You breed with them. They live in your neighborhood. I mean, it's fucking ridiculous. You can breed with animals. You can't, though. You can breed them, live in your neighborhood I mean it's fucking ridiculous You can breed with animals You can't though You can't

You can breed them But you can't Even if you fuck them Nothing happens Other than you get happy I promised my wife I'd keep everything straight Impossible

On this show Did you promise her No I didn't I told Mark Mark's like I'm like Mark You know when we get to talk And I have a tendency

To dip a little bit I'm like you need to keep me On that level plane Don't let me go What does that mean? Dip what? I like good humor. I like good humor.

Tim can get raw. I can't get raw. Are you worried about your perception, the perception of people? No, no. I'm not worried about my perception of people because people are going to think of you what they do. Right. But I worry about me.

People are going to think of you what they do. Right. But I worry about me. I have a perception of myself that I like to maintain. Right. Which has been, and I believe it is what it is. When you meet me face-to-face, it's the exact same as when you meet me anywhere else. Well, you're the same guy from that show.

You're the same guy from your show. Yeah. I think I'm more of a badass in real life than I am on the show, honestly. In what way? guy from your show yeah i think you know i think i'm more of a badass in real life than i am on the show honestly i watched back of the editing you know like i'm combing through some of the footage that i just filmed last week i'm like man i got my guts hanging over my belt and i'm like i'm talk i slurred over my voice and everything and i'm like i just don't look tough you know i'm like i'm tough whenever you say it like that i'm tough it. I'm tough, man. It's tough to convince people. I don't have that deep, raspy voice and stuff. So it's like, you know, yeah. We're all tougher in our own minds. You don't have to project it.

Everybody thinks they do. But when you try, just something happens. If you try to create your brand and who you are and what you think you want people to think of you as, you're just going to be a doof. You're a douchebag. You just got to be yourself. Yeah. I like how you went with doof, but I know what you were trying to say.

Because I didn't want to go, I didn't want to dip. I wanted to keep that even playing. It's a douchebag. Because I did post a picture last night that had the word douchebag in it. Did you? Yeah. You got in trouble? No, I just kind of second thought it a little bit.

I'm like, I just posted that. Should I have done that? What's wrong with douchebags? Because it's really how feel you know It's really how I felt about the man. So it's like who was the douchebag. What was it about? He's running our country, you know, so it was it was a bumper sticker on this truck It said it had had douchebag with the Obama with the president's emblem Yes, the oh and then underneath that the guy was selling his truck. So he had in soap for sale so i just i'm like oh that's pretty cool douchebag for sale click and so i i post this not even thinking it's like oh is the cia gonna come out because i've seen stuff that guys post or whatever like they shut down my facebook page or whatever and it's like

they can do that and it's so weird if you criticize uh the president too harshly or if there's any threat whatsoever of violence like i'm gonna kick the president's ass they'll come out they should too though you know what they should but so i i because you know i'm a nice guy i'm on the outward side i'm a nice guy at home i'm a nice guy whatever but i'm a badass on the mountain i'll tell you that i see what you're saying yeah i see what you're saying. Yeah. I see what you're saying. The Second Amendment is a funny issue when it comes to Obama because there was this, they had this recording of him doing this speech and talking about guns, and he was talking about how people want to keep their guns. They're never going to let you take their guns.

And I'm like, what a weird thing it is where people, representative government, where people are elected, they get into a position of power, and then they look at people and they say things like, they're never going to let you take their guns. They're going to like, why would you, why do you, what are you trying to do?

Like, why are you trying to take their guns? If you're just a person, and what you are as a president, yes, you're the leader of the country, yes, you're the commander in chief and all that, but essentially you're just a person. So if you're a person, why are you trying to take away other people's guns?

Do you think that people shouldn't have guns because they're all dangerous? Because statistically, that's a real tough argument. Statistics don't matter to people like that. I know they don't. They don't care. Well, that's why those people are ridiculous. Anybody in that sort of a position that has that sort of a point of view, if you're going to be the fucking president of the United States,

you've got to be able to back up everything you say with logic and science. And if you look at the amount of people we have in this country, there's 350 million motherfuckers in this country, okay? Not all of them are motherfuckers, but some of them. Good and bad. 350 million people in this country. There's probably 350 million guns. Half of them are gun owners. Yeah. Stat million guns. Half of them are gun owners.

Yeah. Statistically speaking, half of them are gun owners. Probably. Then look at how many people are actually getting killed by guns. The number is ridiculously low, which means that most people are really good at controlling themselves. Most people have cars, and they don't just drive into crowds of people. But some people occasionally do if enough people do that are we going to take away cars the thing of it is is like

you could have those people sitting here across from you and you can be explaining to them and you can have the statistical data and you can have the proof and the facts and everything they're still not going to care they don't care because there's more to it than just doing what's right and doing what is statistically fact it's there's always a an agenda behind it there's something that they want to push well is it control is it that they just want to control people or what is it who knows but when you look at everything that like like the government is doing and even small things of something as simple as giving out 12 000 bayonets to the police force what are you trying to do create your own your own army are you waiting for a civil war i mean what's what's going on here why are you buying yeah they provided the armies

or the uh local police local police and i and you know i'm probably speaking out of turner because i don't know all the facts whatever but it's like 12 000 bayonet what do you need a bayonet for anyway this isn't this isn't the world war we're not numb whatever yeah but then it's like well you bought how many millions of rounds of ammunition you know so it's like well there's all the conspiracy theories and all that kind of thing but you sit back and you think you're like why are they doing that you know what what's going on here what are they trying to create or what are they why did they decimate you know the military why did they fire all these commanders that that that did such a badass job of taking taking out the bad guy you

know why did you pull out of iraq why did you all these there's there's always something more to it than just fact and data and numbers and what's right and what's wrong there's it's it's man you know there's power hunger or something to it there's a lot of public to me there's something freaky about it i don't there's something sick going on that i don't get in what way it just nothing makes sense wouldn't you think that if you're if you're the leader of of the country you would do things that the majority of people would think makes sense like what what doesn't make sense to you i think what doesn't make sense to me is pushing like say take the immigration issue i heard a

statistic the other day whether it's right or wrong that nine million people in the greater la area potentially half of them illegal there's more than nine million people here right and there's like it was like the greater la city area so it was a smaller whatever it was they they used the number nine million they said they said potentially there's there's up to half of those are illegal right not documented, which to me is like, well, that's one city. But why would they allow the people to come across the border just so openly? And now it's like as a parent, I have a kid in school, and if they're putting these people and busing them all across the country and letting these people go in school without even asking their ages or having to go through medical checks like my kids do or any of those types of things, it's like, what's the reasoning behind that? It's like, what's the reasoning behind that? It's not a humanitarian. You know, if you were humanitarian,

you'd block the, block the damn border off and not let people come across and experience all that, you know, suffering. But then as me, as the humanitarian, little bit of humanitarian that I have,

I mean, it's like, man, if I'm in that position, I'm coming across the border too. And I'm working here, you know, I'm providing my family with a better situation.

But as a man, government, a managing government, managing a country to me it just doesn't make sense that you would allow open borders well i don't think it's totally open i mean it's difficult to get over here they risk their lives it's very tough to and i know what you're saying but i also think that politically it's if you want democratic votes um the more lenient you are towards people coming across this border the the

more lenient you are towards illegals latinos giving them rights giving them education giving them the ability to drive cars or maybe even possibly vote that's going to be very advantageous if you're a democrat if you're a liberal and if that's what your your agenda is that's what you're trying to pursue it's interesting in um circles, Cubans are almost all Republican. I mean, there's a massive, not all obviously, but like Miami has a large population of very conservative Latinos. It's a completely different sort of environment. Very Republican, very conservative. It's a completely different setup than they have with Latinos or Mexicans in LA.

And a lot of it is to do with what they've experienced in Cuba and how the hardships that they encountered in a communist land and coming over to America and realizing the opportunities and what you can accomplish here. and what you can accomplish here. And what's going on with Americans and Mexico, the disparity between California and Mexico is so vast and the distance is so small that it creates this really weird environment where, like, I was in San Diego a couple weeks ago and I was joking around about how nice everybody is in San Diego. One of the reasons why they're so nice is because you can walk to a third world country. Like, they know how good they got it.

Right. If you want to get confused, you want to think that, hey, man, the world's all shit. No, no, no, no, no. You're in fucking San Diego, dude. This is awesome. Let's go for a walk. You and I are going to walk. It'll take us about an hour.

We'll be in Tijuana. And then you're going to see something that's not good. You're going to see this is what happens when you don't have taxes and the united states government and this the school system that we have this is what these people are trying to escape and as a human being when i go there and i see that environment i want to i want to you know say hey you know they should be able to do whatever the fuck they want they should be able to come over here but they also should be able to figure out how to, someone should engineer that society better. Someone should figure out how to make that culture at least as accessible or as advantageous as the American culture. I don't know.

Right. And I think that's where I'm talking worse is they should be doing that rather than just saying, well, if you can't have it there, come here and do it here then. Yeah. For the individuals. Because you can't in Mexico. As an individual, I'm doing exactly what they're doing i'm coming across and i'm working and i'm doing whatever i can to provide for my family and we know and interact you know there in reno i know and interact with a lot of people that with within some of the churches and stuff

where it's like they've they've come here to better their lives and you can't hold them you can't it's hard to look at them and say well well, yeah, but you broke the law, so you've got to go back. Right. You can't do that. No. Because you want – as a whole, you want people to have what I have. You want people to be able to succeed. It just sucks that their country doesn't see that.

Right. It hasn't done that. But does that mean that our country has to have liberal open – or relatively open policies where they're like, if you don't have it there, come here, we'll give it to you. But do we – they don't really say that, though that though i mean you do have to go through the border and it's fucking hard it's not easy to get from mexico probably not as hard as it used to be really yeah i don't know i mean i'm a guy that spends a lot of time in the wild i could probably i could i'm not going to say that i could get across the border but kids well you women women and children and people are getting across they're across, and it's got to be hard.

It's got to be difficult. And some of the stuff that some of those kids have gone through, and that is devastating. It's disgusting. You wouldn't want to ever have to have your family have to go through that process. Also, we're a nation of immigrants. This whole nation was started by people who came from someone they didn't like and decided to try to make a better world here.

And at what point does that get closed off? Who is that available to? I don't think you ever close it off. You don't ever close it off, I don't think. But it's hard for people that come from Mexico to legally immigrate to America. It's very difficult. They make it hard. And you have to have some reason why they should have you here.

If you're a scholar and you're coming from Norway, it takes time. You have to go through all sorts of checkpoints. There's a lot of, a lot of things have to happen. I've, I've had friends from Canada that wanted to get green cards to, to work in America and, you know, white people that speak perfect English that are well-educated and it's hard. It's not that easy to get a green card. I'm just glad that I produce outdoor television and I don't have to deal with it or I don't have to do it, you do it or manage it or that kind of thing. Obviously, we all deal with it wherever we live in that. It's also weird when you've got half the population is illegal.

You want to make half the people criminals? You can't. There should be some sort of a way that they could contribute as well because a lot of them are not paying taxes. It's more advantageous to make them citizens didn't reagan do that for 12 for how many million nine million or something they said okay amnesty everybody that's here yeah i believe they did it reagan i thought it was reagan i'm not a bad again i'm just going to what i heard off the radio you know i'm just the

uneducated white hunter guy you know bubba but it's like you know they they did that one time and now it's built up where they're there's almost no way around it that they're gonna have to do it again and unless they're there's stop measures to keep it from happening again it's going to be 20 30 years down the road it'll happen again it's a compassion issue in a lot of ways because when people are in an undeniably shitty environment like you know juarez mexico and they want to get out and they see san antonio is right over there doing great. I'm doing the same thing. I would do the same thing. Yeah, the real issue is, like, why are borders there?

Why are nations there? It gets real tricky. It's a very complex issue. I'm going to keep hunting. I'm just going to keep doing what I do. I'm not even going to try podcasts. I'm just going to do what I do. When you're on top of a mountain with just a camera and a rifle,

how many cameras do you take when you go do that? You know, I used to take several. Now I just take one main camera, which I use a DSLR camera that will take stills and video, and then I have one GoPro. That's it? Any more, I find that I don't use the GoPro hardly ever. The main reason I'm using the GoPro now is because I had so many people calling BS on me.

They're like, there's no way you're filming that. You've got a cameraman, whatever. I'm like, I'll show you. So I mounted a thing off the back of my camera, my main camera, that is just basically a stick that I have a GoPro on. So you can see me. I mean, there's an instance in one of the episodes

that was on this year where you see me fumbling. I have to take a lens off. I put another one on. I spin the camera in the GoPro. You can see the elk coming up. Then you see me reach up, focusing it, turning it, clipping out of the bow, and then shooting it. You know, like everything happens just that fast. And it's like, there, take that stick in your ear.

You know, I filmed this all myself. But it's become kind of a personal challenge that way where it's like, yeah, it can be done, and it adds more of a challenge to the hunt. And to me, it's in a case like that, I didn't get nervous about making the shot on the elk. I just drew back. I didn't even range it. Drew back naturally, just boom. And the same thing happened with a deer that year. Same thing.

Drew back, boom. Because my brain was on the cameras. My mind was on what I had to do with the cameras to get everything right. And so hunt mode was natural because I'm a natural hunter. I grew up as a hunter from the time i was a kid so that that motion just took over whereas if the cameras weren't there and i'm just thinking and i have time to watch that elk come up and i'm clipping on and i'm like okay where am i going to shoot him and i'm trying to range him and get a distance you're trying to do all these things that you're supposed to do as a hunter and then it's in

your head that that that you've got to do all this and so when you anchor back your mind might not be right you might be nervous i might be shaken because there's been times where i mean elk's coming in i'm literally just shaking whether it's an elk or a deer and i'm just physically just i can't control it jacked up yeah because it's like it's almost like a fear adrenaline holy crap this is happening whatever i mean i remember as a kid sitting in a tree stand for elk and the the guys that taught me how to bow hunt, I was 13 years old. And they're like, yeah, best way, just go get in this stand and just wait for the elk to come into the water hole. Well, shoot, I'm a 13-year-old kid up there by myself, and you hear this herd of elk coming in. So you have 50, 800 to 1,000-pound animals coming in, screaming, chasing each other, and you just freeze.

And I was shaking so bad that that platform on the stand was like, ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka. And I was like, hold it together, man. Hold it together, man. You know, and it's like that's what you get when an animal comes in. And I don't know what gives you that adrenaline rush. Is it the fact that you know you can kill it i don't think so i think it's just the fact that this wild animal is getting close you know something

anticipation yeah it's just there's so many factors same thing when you go you know you're getting off the ski lift and you you know you strap on the snowboard and you know you're going to go off this this one run that you just looked at as you're coming up the the hill you're like i'm going down that and then you get there and you're like holy crap this is scary man i don't know if i want to do this or not but i think it's that feeling the elk thing is more so even i get more out of it because that's more me you know i get more of a thrill out of elk and it's you know hunting and golf that's kind of my two things outside of family and it's like i get excited over that you know you hit you hit just a just a killer iron and you're just watching that thing fall and it's just kind of cutting into there

and you're like you get that feeling a little bit that could go in the hole you know or that's going to get close that's kind of the same thing but with hunting it's like that much more amplified because it's a live thing you know it's a live event and you don't have any control over that that elk could come in and do whatever yeah anticipation and build up for one moment and also the amount of work involved in getting up there and it's like all for this one moment ready don't fuck it up don't fuck it up but what people don't see too is on tv you know i posted a comment on on instagram the other day was like you know for you guys information hunting's not as easy as it looks on social media and on television you know which to me is a simple comment.

But people are like, oh, that's so true, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, I might be on the mountain for nine days not seeing an animal. Like on that moose hunt, I saw one moose before I shot my moose. So you're there for 10, 12 days not seeing anything. All of a sudden, there's a moose. Bang. Whoa, crap. That just happened, you know.

It's like, wow. So that's hunting. There's most bank. Whoa crap that just happened. You know Wow So that's hunting that's reality of it. Whereas on TV you see six eight minutes of me traveling those Oh, then he killed a moose. That's awesome You know that moose show was wild the one where you shot the moose and then it start floating down the river Yeah, it wasn't in the river. Yeah, it was just he was just he was in the marsh So where he was standing it was like knee-deep and then he kind of went back in the willows and so i had to actually go in the willows and pull him out because the boat we tied him onto the boat and tried to get the boat to pull him out but it wasn't happening so i had to go in and filled my waders i'm just tugging on what's

on the video i put the gopro on my head and i'm just i had to just basically just leverage and get this moose broke out of the willows to where the water was deep enough for it to float. And I don't know how I did it physically. How much does it weigh? Oh, that's a 1,200, 1,400-pound animal. That's a big, big animal. God damn, 1,400 pounds. I don't know how I did it.

It had to have been adrenaline because the moment we got him and tethered to the boat and floated over the sandbar, people don't realize i was closer to death right then on any than any other hunt that i've ever been on i was so hypothermic that i had to get off the boat and i literally just took all my clothes off and just piled on one dry coat that i had and and a pair of pants and i ran up and down the sandbar back and forth because it started out like kind of a hunched over little little trudge and it took me about 40 minutes before i generated enough body heat to get myself out of that hyperthermic state because i was so i was so cold because i was so excited about the moose that i just jumped in i'm

like yeah look at my moose whatever my waders filled up everything and you're in water that's you know just comes off of the glaciers up there probably 34 35 degree water maybe maybe a little warmer i don't know i didn't have a thermometer but it's damn cold so it just got me so close to the point where my body was starting to just really get crazy and i was not thinking right the only thing that i could think of because everything was so wet was just to run and so i just ran up and down the sand just back and forth and back you're by yourself no i had that one guy. Yeah, that one guy. Wow, that's scary as fuck, man. Hypothermia kills a lot of people.

That's what a lot of folks don't know. It's a slow killer, yeah. You get to the point. That's why I tell people, I'm like, it's a lot easier to stay warm than to get warm. So if you start to feel a chill, put a coat on, you know? Don't get yourself wet. The other thing about hard hiking, too, when you're hoofing it up the mountains is you start sweating. That's why wool's so important people don't um many people who don't go into those environments and don't understand

like how you can start sweating when it's really cold out don't know how great wool is yeah wool's awesome i like there's some great synthetics out there too that wick the moisture away from your body like wool same well i like you know, I grew up as a wool guy. Everything was all wool, wool, wool, wool. Well, a lot of synthetics, they'll pull it away from your body and then they'll dry fast. Really? Wool's going to pull it away from your body. And the cool thing about wool is even when it's wet, it's going to keep you warm, but

it doesn't dry real fast. Whereas the synthetics will pull it away, but then they'll dry fast too. Why does it dry faster? It's just the fiber, just the fabric. I don't think it holds the moisture as well, but it pull it away, but then they'll dry fast too. Why does it dry faster? It's just the fiber, just the fabric. I don't think it holds the moisture as well, but it pulls it away. It's like a more closed off moisture. Yeah, wool is still amazing because if you can't get dry, wool is still going to keep you warm. Yeah, isn't that crazy?

Yeah, but it's heavy and bulky. I don't know. There's some good stuff. You guys mentioned First Light. That's some amazing stuff. I've grown to where probably about 10 years ago i moved away from wool and into synthetics just because they the technology was there that started getting better and then because it's lighter yeah now i'm with under armor so it's you know obviously

and under armor but even them they've got some clothing that we prototyped this last fall that was a kind of a wool acrylic blend that was pretty amazing pretty good good stuff. Really? A wool acrylic blend? Yeah. Is it lighter? Yeah. It's similar texture and feel to the wool, but you combine that with some of the synthetic base layers and that, and you've just got a really hardy, durable fabric that can be replicated and printed on and all kinds of different things. That's a consideration

that you have to, uh, really, uh, plan out, right? Like how much weight you're carrying, like what, how much stuff do you actually need? You take, you take what you need and, uh, that's it. I mean, there's no reason to take any comforts. I mean, that's one of the things that I, that I probably should be better at. Like I hate sleeping on the ground when I, when I mean, that's one of the things that I, that I probably should be better at. Like I hate sleeping on the ground when I, when I hunt, I'm miserable. Like at night I basically just roll from one side of the next, one side of the next because I can't sleep because I'm like, I'm not taking that two pound pad. I'm going to take a, take the 16 ounce pad instead, you know, thinking one pound. Well, it's like, you know what? I've got seven pounds around my stomach that I, that I'm carrying around that I shouldn't be carrying around either.

Right. pounds around my stomach that i that i'm carrying around that i shouldn't be carrying around either right but we all get so caught up into the weight that you know you you kind of neglect certain things and that's important when you're going on a backcountry pack trip where you're going to be in several days and that weight weight's a big deal because when you start hiking up a mountain you're just thinking i mean i know i do i'm thinking in my mind what could i have left out of my pack you know what could have made this trip lighter because if you't have a pack, it's a lot easier to get up the mountain. But you got to be comfortable or you're going to hike your butt back up the mountain. Do you wear like a lightweight boot too? I do.

I'm a light, I'm super lightweight boot all the time. Even in rugged country, I like a really lightweight boot. I've never, I'm the kind of guy, I've never sprained an ankle. Never, never had any knee or any ankle issues. I've had knee issues, but that really doesn't have anything to do with the boot but it's like i like lightweight i like maneuverability and just i feel more feel more mobile i don't like the big heavy rock mountain boots you know and i've worn them a lot a lot but they're just rigid and i just feel like my legs get tired and i just can't move but when i have a light boot that's more like a sneaker i don't

think my legs get as tired and i can just yeah that's what i'm thinking because i'm going um hunting in alaska first week of october and uh i had these uh these heavy sneeze yeah good boot great heavy boots they're really they're excellent waterproof and like that but man i went hiking with them recently trying to break them in. I'm like, my fucking legs get tired. Well, try drying leather when it's raining a bunch too. I mean, it's hard. But that boot is made for that environment.

That's the type of boot that's made for that. There's some synthetics out there too that might dry a little easier than that. But I've always been one where it's like, you know, I just don't have issues with blisters. You know, I don't know don't have issues with blisters. You know, I don't, I just, I'm just lucky that way. I haven't ever had to deal with that. When I wear a pair of my lightweight, you know, underarmors, my Speed Freaks or whatever, it's like I wore them, I'm in my, halfway through my second season on one pair of boots, which typically I go through a pair of boots easy in a season.

But this lightweight pair of Speed Freaks, i've had it in the snow you know the shale those under armor speed is an under armor speed for you when you these ones are prototypes i don't know if it's the actual speed freak it's a prototype boot they sent me last year a new product that's kind of be cool that's awesome that's one cool thing about you know i've been on knocking on under armor's door for three or four years and last year i was fed up i was like you know what these guys are never going to give me the time of day they're cool guys and everything but they're looking for bigger fish and so this is probably the first time they've heard that too is like i i got rid of all my under armor gear and uh was decked out with another brand they decked me out everything head to toe

everything so i was like i was all geared up to go on my first hunt in this other brand and uh then something just hit me my wife's like where'd you get all that camo and i told her the story she's like what about under armor and i go i can't give up on under armor can i and she's like you were gonna give up on under armor so i went to i was leaving for my hunt i went to shields and i bought a pair of pants and a shirt under armor pair of pants and a shirt i went on my hunt i killed this deer while i was driving back kobe gave me a call and said, hey, things have developed. We've got some stuff freed up. We'd really love to have you guys on board.

So it's like, holy crap. I just about threw Under Armour away, you know, just from that. But as a TV guy, it's like you want to have the best brands. You want to wear the best gear and everything. But on the second part of it is you've got to pay the bills. You've got to make it worth your while to do it. Because at the end of the day, I'm not doing it because I'm a passionate hunter. I'm doing it because I'm a businessman and I want to make a pile of money. And it just so happens to be a sport that I love and I'm passionate about, and that's going to help me be a better business person.

A lot of people don't know that Under Armour does hunting gear. They're huge in the hunting world. People think of them in terms of other athletics. Yeah, they're just kidding me we just announced uh the coming soon of their new uh ridge reaper baron baron camel pattern remy and i and there's like six or eight of us nationwide that had these prototype clothings and that wore this camel pattern cameron's cameron's got it as well and uh they just announced that it's going to be releasing i i heard september 15th one of the dates was

thrown out but they're going to be coming out with that uh at under armor.com the ridge reaper line with the baron camo pattern pretty sweet do you ever go out and realize that you fucked up you should have brought more shit always really no yeah yeah that's happened and it's also gone the other way too where i've gone there and i'm like why did i bring this mostly camera stuff i mean i pack around this five pound 11 000 millimeter whatever 1100 millimeter lens that weighs like six pounds i pack that sucker everywhere and i never use it it's like why am i packing that thing and my spot and scope and all this it's like is there anything that you like when like if you haven't brought it with you like if you got out there and go god why didn't i bring this

is there anything like dangerous about that have you ever taken with you, like if you got out there and go, God, why didn't I bring this? Is there anything like dangerous about that? Have you ever taken, have you ever like taken a trip and not having enough clothing or not having enough? Yeah. Survival shit. I always have survival stuff with me. I carry a survival medic. It's just a little super lightweight first aid kit, but it has survival tools with it too. You know, so I have that in every, I've got one in every backpack i use that's just there like start fire yeah thankfully i rarely have to use

it you know and if i do use it it's just more just for fun to start a fire or something but it's there if i do need it um i don't know when i've run into a situation where it's like man i wished i would have had this or that um because it's such a unique style of hunting so few people do that that way where you go completely on your own well and i grew up hunting with nothing you know i had a bow with piece of crap arrows and it was the cheapest thing we could find and i hunted with that same boat the bow that i bought when i was 14 was the first i think i've been 15 i bought that bow i hunted with that until i was until i got into tv till 2004 was it a compound or compound bow barely it was a polaris a pse polaris that i bought that bow it was like

109 or something 100 feet per second i don't know maybe who knows but i hunted with that thing and then i got back you know out of college i was hunting with that thing and i got i hunted with that clear till 2004 before i got a Matthews bow. And I'm like, holy cow, there's a 12-year, 15-year span of time there that I hunted with a piece of crap. And so I think that by me learning to get by with so little that it makes it easier for me when I do have good equipment. I can appreciate it that much more, and it's like I can get by with just good equipment. The world of hunting bows. I don't have to have g hunting bows and gadgets right compound bows is that's the the one world where

10 years makes a giant leap whereas like with rifles 10 years ago it's a rifle you know i mean scopes are a little better but rifles essentially a rifle bullets are bullets but the the bows of 10 years ago in comparison to the bows of today i mean they're they're making these little incremental leaps like every year where they're getting a little bit lighter a little bit more feet per second a little bit more accurate a little bit better tolerance it's really kind of interesting to see the technology that's involved in compound bows both for target shooting and for hunting yeah and it's interesting the bow company that i deal with with g5 and prime is like g5 is an engineering firm you know they're an engineering

company so if anybody's going to know how to make something better and get the most out of a piece of iron it's an engineering company it's somebody that has that background so that's what's really cool about them and these companies are smart they're not just going to just blow their wad on all their technology all at once they're going gonna incrementally bring it out so they can have a new bow every year and that seems to be like the craze right now is every every bow manufacturer has one or two new bows every year and it's like man how how do you keep up with that right how do you keep up with technology but as a hunter i'm kind of addicted to that it's like yeah i like this bow but in october as soon as that new prototype bow comes out i want it in my my hand, you know, because we're addicted to that new, bigger, better, badder, just like the iPhone 6.

You know, Mark was telling me about that, and I'm like, you were mocking the iPhone 4? Yeah, I got an iPhone 4, you know. You have an iPhone 4 with a crazy lens attachment that you put on your, I've seen that too. You put it on a spot and scope, and you can film it, right? What is that called? This is a phone scope adapter, and I've just gotten used. You put it on a spotting scope and you can film it, right? What is that called? This is a phone scope adapter. And I've just gotten used to having it on my phone. Every once in a while, I'll take my phone out and put it back in my life-proof case.

But then I reach in my pocket and I'm like, where's my handle? I'm missing my handle. But this is just an adapter. It goes onto a bayonet mount sleeve so I can slide it over my spotting scope. And you can zoom in. You can video. Yeah, take pictures. And what's cool is you shoot a

little video clip or take a photo and bam you post it to instagram wham you're done and that kind of stuff that's pretty cool so you take a photo from straight from the spotting scope exactly yeah wow yeah digiscoping with it and i just leave it in the case because you know my phone i just like having that handle it's just kind of convenient yeah i love it I love it. Cause when I take it off, I'm like missing it. And it's not that I, I don't use this phone scope other than when I'm hunting. So it's like. When you were talking for folks that don't know what you're saying, you were talking about ranging.

These laser range finders are another really cool invention where you, you look into it, you press a button, it tells you the exact yardage. And for people who've never been hunting with bows before never shot a bow before they don't understand that like there's a big difference between a scope on a rifle a rifle is pretty good for a couple hundred yards but a bow there's a big difference between where it's going to hit at 20 yards versus where it's going to hit at 40 yards and all this is sort of crazy calculations on feet per second and where your yardage pins are. That was one thing that I really got into when I started playing with bows

was how much you have to learn. Like develop a sight tape and arrange things out and figure out, like sighting in your bow and making sure everything's tuned up and there's there's there's so so many weird adjustments that you have to make between 20 and 50 yards and how difficult it is to shoot something in 50 yards yeah just a target you don't have a steady rest or a bipod like you do with a rifle i mean the bow you've got you've got your arm that's not very rigid to begin with holding it out there, and you've got your other arm back here, and so you're trying to anchor it. No magnification either.

No, there's some magnification scopes out there that you can put on there, one or two power, six power, whatever. Do you use those? I don't. I'm so old school when it comes to my equipment. I mean, it's just like I'll take a bow, and I set up all my own equipment. I don't take it into the archery shops because everybody has their own way of doing things. But I do it the way I learned, but I'll just put a peep sight, you know, sight it in.

Guys are all wrapped into these super long-range sights. Well, I'm a hunter, so I need a sight that's going to go from 20 to 80, you know, and I'm good. I don't need 120, 150. You mean these rolling single-pin sights? Yeah, I mean, it'd be fun to shoot that far, but I don't. If I want to shoot that far, I go get my MOA rifle and I shoot that far. You know, it's like. Well, you know, I learned from Cameron.

Cameron does all of his hunting with bows and arrows. And Cameron Haynes. Never heard of him. Uses a spot hog. Who? Never heard of her. Cameron Haynes? You keep doing that same joke.

You're going to have to let that go. We're almost done here. That's like my joke. But do you use a multi pin sight sight yeah i do yeah for the longest time i just use a single pin sight but once i started really filming my bow hunts real heavily it just became too much to have to adjust the pin so i just went to the multiple pin sights again so that i don't have any adjustment on the bow i can focus on adjusting camera. When you said that you just sighted in the animal, you didn't even sight it in. You just looked at it, and you just took an estimate.

Is that something that just comes over time? Like you look at something and go, that's about 30 yards. Until I was 25 years old, I didn't use sights. It was all instinctive. So every time I would shoot a bow, it was fingers, and it was barebow instinctive. Even though it was compound, everything was instinctive. And so I think it just ingrains into you if you're a traditional shooter or whatever.

When you draw back, you're like your body, just like shooting a pistol, you know, your body automatically gets into that position. And more times than not, if you'll draw back and get in that position and then look at your pins, you're there. I mean, if you've done it a lot and you're conditioned to that. And I think that's where your instincts kind of take over. And in those cases I drew back and I, and I, you just look at your pin, verify, bam, you know, and you go. So you're still aiming, but because you're not thinking about it, it's happening so much quicker.

They say that that's, you know, what some of the sharpshooters, that's why they're so good is because it's just all instinctive with pistols or anything else. They're not aiming. They're just shooting. There's a lot of practice involved in bow hunting too, right? I started bow hunting at 12, 13 years old. I have had a bow in my hand my entire life basically just because of my upbringing. I'd go out to do chores.

You grab your bow off the freezer. You walk out, fling a couple arrows at the carpet target that we had taped onto the haystack, and you go milk the cows. You walk out. You pull your arrows. You do it again. It was lifestyle. It's life for me growing up that way. I shoot less now just because of the busyness of life and the other, other responsibilities I have, but it's still,

it's still part of it and it's natural. So for a guy picking it up for you to go out and, and be able to experience that instinctive anchoring and everything is just dialed. It's going to come over time, you know, And there will be times where you might go out next week and you're like, man, I know what he's talking about. That feels good. And then the next day you're going to be like, what the hell am I doing wrong? This just isn't working. And that's archery.

That's the nature of your bow. Your wrist is going to tweak. Things are going to change from day to day. So don't feel like you have to adjust your bow every time you go out and shoot. Just be like, yep, today I was pulling them left. Today I'm dropping them out. No deal tomorrow will be a different you know well that's the cool thing about archery is how difficult it is it's so it's so involved that it sort of takes away all the other things in your life away it takes away all the other things you were thinking about all the other distractions in your mind you're so concentrating on putting that pin holding it steady making sure you release no no added movement no no twitching no pulling

and it's i find it like almost like a meditative in that way that when i do it i it cleans my mind out i love doing it at the end of the day i have a busy day i go out my yard i you know pull out some targets and and start shooting and i feel like it's a nice stress reliever too even if people never want to hunt i recommend uh do just doing archery just for fun and get a bow and do it instinctively you should get a recurve or get a bare bow and just go out and just do it close you know 10 10 feet and just get that feeling of just release do you think that helps your it helps it'll help your i i believe so because i grew up that i mean that's that's how i did it and and you know to this day i think it's made

me a better shooter in a hunting situation it's tricky to hunt with a bow because more animals get wounded and escape bow hunting than probably any other style i don't know yeah i don't know what the statistics i mean there's a lot of a lot of deer get hammered by a rifle too and walk away it's hard sure it's hard to say there's a lot of deer get hammered by a rifle, too, and walk away. I'm sure. It's hard to say. There's just that many more rifle hunters out there. Bows are tough because hemorrhaging is lethal.

You know, hemorrhaging is, I mean, you can shoot. I shot a bear in the ankle one time, you know, in the wrist. Bled out within 80 yards. You know, hemorrhaging is super lethal. Whereas a bullet doesn't necessarily have to give you hemorrhaging. It can give you puncture and impact and shock and trauma, but it doesn't necessarily hemorrhage not the same way because of the heat and everything gets cauterized and yeah it could could be so i don't know i i can't can't say for sure yeah i just had a i felt i had a massive responsibility to put in a lot of practice for everyone bow hunting and i mean it was i put i fucked my shoulder up because I was shooting 150 arrows a day.

Don't pull the Cameron Haynes, is it? Don't pull the Cameron Haynes and shoot a 90-pound bow. Shoot a 70-pound bow. All you need is 70. Is that all you need? I had a 70. All you need is 40, 45, you know? But do you?

Because what if you hit a bone and then the animal runs away? Cameron has this philosophy about... Well, he's an interesting guy. Cameron has his philosophy, you know, and that's great. And it works for him. Sweet. Ted Nugent has the 45-pound philosophy. He's got whatever he's got.

Ted Nugent's got his... What do you shoot, a 70? I shoot mine at like 63 pounds or something. Yeah. I mean, I'm a strong guy. I can pull 70, 80 pounds, sure. But you choose to do the other one just because it's more convenient? I'm more accurate.

I found that with my arrows and my broadheads and my setup i i take my bow and i max it at 70 pounds and as i'm sighting in and and tuning my bow paper tuning or whatever i back it off a quarter turn at a time my limbs so you're taking the weight down and i found that that 63 to 65 range for me and my setup i'm getting bullets yeah cameron's like does all those crazy workouts just so he can pull it effortlessly. Yeah, it's awesome. But he's into shooting water buffaloes and shit and getting pass-throughs on giant elks. That's his whole deal. Listen, man, we're out of time.

Sweet. That was three hours. That's good because I've got to take a leak. I bet you do. Go take it. This is great, man. Solo Hunter TV on Twitter. That's good because I got to take a leak. I bet you do. Go take it. This is great, man. Solo Hunter TV on Twitter. What's your Instagram?

At Solo Hunter TV on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Everything, the whole deal. Tim Burnett, thank you very much, brother. Thank you, man. That was fun. I appreciate it. It was really enjoyable. And watch the show.

It's on the Outdoor Channel. It's called Solo Hunter. It's one of my favorite hunting shows. It's a really enjoyable show. Even if you don't like hunting, it's very well done. Thank you to our sponsors. Thank you, thank you, thank you to DraftKings.com Go to DraftKings.com

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