The Joe Rogan Experience - #549 - Big Jay Oakerson

Episode Date: September 15, 2014

Big Jay Oakerson is a stand up comedian and he also hosts his own show "Legion of Skanks Podcast" available on Spotify.

Is it fucking up again? No, you said you didn't want to do music, so I unplugged it. Oh, you already unplugged it? That's how wonky our fucking system is. You need a better system where you can't just unplug. Oh, no, I mean, I usually unplug it just so nothing bad happens. Like, in the middle of it, I get, like, an instant message or something, and you're like, what the fuck was that?

Do you get instant messages on your iPad? No, but I'm saying if something like that were to happen, you know? Big J, what up, dog? Yeah, buddy. Thanks for coming in, man. Thank you for having me. This is very exciting. What is that?

Is that an e-cigarette you're puffing on? You know, Congress is trying to fucking ban those finally. That's fine. They're stepping in. Government's stepping up and ending these evil,

evil e-cigarettes that are stealing money from the mouths of the babies of the families that own the tobacco companies. Which is Marlboro. Who makes your preferred brand?

Logic. And I do the Logic Zero, no nicotine. That's no, no nicotine. Oh, I see. So it's like just a habit thing. Crutch, yeah, but I haven't. I actually looked yesterday. I'm like 29 days from a year that's

interesting that that's interesting like a zero tobacco thing that just fills the habit because you got a habit of pure water pure water vapor yeah wow and there's no feeling whatsoever do you get like a little mental thing that happens a mental thing yeah when i get the itch to go like the things i've always wanted to do what are you you putting up? New York just said that now e-cigarettes are allowed to have paid commercials during movies now. What? They haven't had that for 16 years since regular cigarettes were out. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You mean before the movie plays?

Yeah, like paid product placements. Oh. But wait a minute, that's not a product placement. Is that before the movie or in the movie? Paid product placements in films has been off limits for tobacco companies for 16 years. So now they're allowed to have paid, like in movies, they're allowed to be paid. So what you're saying is like if you watch the Incredibles or whatever. And they all pull it out.

They're smoking e-cigarettes. They're getting paid for that. I don't know why I said the Incredibles. I was going to say. Toy story. Toy story. Well, I was going to say, what's the November Man? What's the new one with the Pierce Brosnan fellow?

So if he's smoking an e-cigarette, it's one of those things. Right. If he gets paid to do it. That's so weird. They do that on television. You know, like you'll only be able to use like Mac computers on some shows. It's so weirdly obvious, too. I remember American Idol, like every judge happened to be drinking a coke turned

out to the right yeah well there's that too and there's just there's also like on certain shows like you'll see everything even movies you'll see like every product is a sony and they'll they'll close up on the sony phone when someone gets a phone call so you see the sony logo and it'll be on a vIO laptop and you go, oh, Sony has a deal in this movie. Actually, when it's not Sony, it seems like they always use Apple computers and they always have the sticker over

the Apple logo or iPhones, but they have the Apple logo covered up for some reason. Like every single TV show. So it's almost like Apple's like, no, you have to pay us to show the Apple logo. No you've got it totally wrong. It's the opposite. Yeah, they don't get paid by Apple, so they cover it up.

That's what it is. If Apple paid them, then they would have it. Yeah, they're like, we're not going to advertise your thing. But isn't it weird that it seems like every show does use Apple products in all their shows? They want to. There's like a cult of Apple in Hollywood for sure. I'm not sucking my own dick, but I did a show called P. Diddy's Bad Boys of Comedy on HBO. And that was, it turns out, that was just an entire season of a TV show to promote Sean John clothing.

Really? And they made you, you had to wear Sean John clothing, yeah. You had to wear it when you did stand-up? So they dressed me up in hip-hop clothes. It's great. Wait a minute. You had to wear their clothes to do stand-up on their show. Yeah, and all they could find in my size was a short-sleeve zip-up sweater that said Sean

John across the front real big. Oh, my God. And I was about 70 pounds heavier than I am now. Wait a minute. You did stand-up with a Sean John shirt on because they made you wear it? Oh, yeah. I mean, I did BET's comic few with it. My pant leg rolled up in my first year of comedy, I think.

One pant leg rolled up like LL Cool J. I bought in full wigger. I went hard on it. Did you? For how long? Just, you know what it was? I figured out, I started out in a black comedy room and I just found out I could fucking destroy if I just went right to him on that level. Now, I actually loathe that kind of comedy.

And it's fun to expose that. Like the white guy who goes into a black room and just like, come on, y'all. You know when you buy a bitch a drink and then that bitch walk away? I'm going to go dancing with that drank, bitch. I bought it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, you know, every joke's like, you up in a club? Well, there's a few white guys who take on that role with zealous intention.

Yeah? There's a few of those white guys. There's always, like, one or two of those out there that, like, get known as a white guy who does black rooms. Oh, man. Yeah. Gary Owen. I've watched him.

It blows my goddamn mind. I have no idea. It's like listening to... What's funny is that when you... If they turn the microphones off on the audience, you'd be like... And you said there's all black people in the audience you'd be like well they're probably furious right at what's happening like they're basically being called clowns like they won't understand a white guy unless he does this and then you turn on the volume of the audience and

they're just roaring high-fiving just losing their shit in the audience like really it's such like a it's such a grand scheme pander. It blows my mind. You're allowed to do that pander, though. As long as it's, like, positive, you're allowed to do that pander. If you do it good. It seems phony. It seems so phony. It seems really phony.

Because there's guys I worked with in the black circuit when I started that, like, fantastic comics. Bill Burr used to do some of those rooms, you know? Fantastic comics, black, Bill Burr used to do some of those rooms, you know. But isn't it weird that like no one has any issue whatsoever with a black guy who does like alternative comedy, like that really deadpan, you know. No one's got a problem with that? Very white nerdy comedy. No one would say he's taking on the affectation of the white nerds. No, but I'll tell you what, that guy eats shit in a real black comedy room. The black nerd?

Right, right. The black nerd. The black nerd is not accepted by it, no. Well, the white guy who acts like a black guy eats shit in a lot of white comedy clubs. Yeah, that's what happened when I first came to New York and I was getting... Look at you.

Oh, it's ridiculous. Wow. Look at that pumpkin face. It's so crazy that they make you wear their clothes. This lady would not stop hunting. You couldn't say no. Couldn't say no. It was a part of the deal.

Yeah. There was also some contract where, in that words, he was your manager for three years beyond that show or something. Really? He got to manage your real cut of anything. Because assuming anything you got moving forward from P. Diddy's Bad Boys of Comedy somehow was because of P. Diddy.

That's no joke, man. I've seen that in reality show contracts. I've seen that where friends were thinking about going on a reality show and they brought the contract to someone and it turns out, say, if you're like, if they created some new show, like a Real Housewives type show, and then you became

the breakout star and took off and had cookbooks and shit like a lot of these chicks do and started making bank. They get a piece. They get a big, fat piece of that, man. That's not all yours on some of these contracts. Oh, yeah, because it'll even be called Oxygen Networks, whatever chick presents. Yeah, it could be. I mean, you're allowed to use that in your credit,

as seen on Sean Diddy's Bad Boys of Comedy. You're allowed to use that. You know what I'm saying? What a ridiculous show. But they'll own you. They're saying that you have no value other than the value that they gave you. I mean, they own it.

They don't benefit from having a talented person on their show that rewards them and gives them ratings, which in turn gives them more advertising. No, no, no, no, no. They want a piece of your future prosperity. Your future prosperity based on you being an entertaining person that they put on television. So not only do they want to pay people just a shit tiny amount of money, then they want to script what they're doing but then treat them like they're not even actors. They treat them like

they're these weird slaves that they've promoted. These robots that they made to be out there in the world. Yeah, because no actors let anybody do that. You don't get on a sitcom and they say,

okay, we own all your book sales and you're fucking, you know, anything you do in the movies or anything from here on out. But the reality stars, though, are you totally against it? Because there's some issue

of the reality stars, though, are completely made by the network. They are. So what, though? Yeah, but... How is it any different than actors? Because actors are better at it? Because they treat it as a craft? Because there is a skill there.

Yeah, there's something that's like... What about the ones that suck? Yeah. But, I mean, like, do you think, like, Snooki should always give some kickback to MTV to some degree? No, no. I disagree. Chef Gordon Ramsay? I think those are his shows.

I don't know. He's on like four different shows. Yeah, but I think those are his shows. Yeah, he creates those. You know what I'm saying? He's a pretty famous dude. That's not a good example. And he also has a skill.

It's like he's a world-renowned chef. It's not like Snooki. You know what I'm saying? It depends what you do though. You're talking about a guy who's already famous. It depends on what you do though. If you're like the guy who's on The Bachelor and he owns like a horse stable,

if after that show the horse stable's business picks up huge, I don't think there should be any kickback from something like that. But if he does something moving on like another reality show like The Bachelor, All Stars, whatever thing, like sure, I think to some degree. degree dude i think that's crazy talk i think a person who's working for you when

they're doing something like that if you're a producer of a a television show or an executive and a network or what have you who i don't know who's getting the money and you hire someone you're hiring someone because you think that they're going to be the best performer in this production that you're putting on sure let's stop pretending they're going to be the best performer in this production that you're putting on. Let's stop pretending they're reality shows. Sure, okay. The only reality show is fucking cops, okay? You know how you know it's a reality show?

Because one of the guys got shot and killed the other day because it's real. Really? Yeah, one of the sound guys. And they filmed the whole thing like regular cop style. Yeah, the guy got shot and killed. The fucking sound guy did. That's the only real reality show.

Are the videos out there? No, it hasn't been released. Yeah, it's a really recent thing um but when you're watching a lot of these shows whether it's about selling cars or you know whether it's about being in a pawn shop it's all rigged yeah it is everybody knows what the subject's going to be beforehand they know what the scenario is they're painting so you're basically an actor you're into some quasi actor okay they can't they put you on the show say if we we do fucking big big jay's grill house and uh i decided i'm going whole hog and then you see like a hog spinning around on a thing big j i do stand-up comedy but i also love cooking so i decided to open up and then they they what

they own you they own you? They own you? They own a piece of you forever? That's horse shit. The reason why they want you on the show in the first place, whether you're some crazy housewife that fucking gets pilled up and starts screaming at people, or whether you're Charlie Sheen, if he ever does a reality show.

The reason why they want you is because they think people are going to tune into you and they're going to benefit from that. They can't own you because they made you. Fuck off. No, you're right. And I guess, you know, who are you talking about originally? I can't even remember who you're talking about. I'm not talking about anybody in specific.

I'm talking about these reality shows. These reality shows where they take people, and, you know, we're talking about him being forced to wear those shirts, and I'm saying that these shows that, like, him saying that he was going to be managing him for three years afterwards, they connect people in these weird ways where they'll own you for a long time. After your thing, they'll get a kickback. But I guess you're right. Even in the example that I used, I guess Snooki really, she was cast to do something.

Of course she was. So in essence, she is an actor. When that camera's on you, man, let's be real. It's very difficult for people to be themselves. It's just very difficult. When the camera's on you and they say, ready, go, you're performing. Whether you're performing in some weird sort of a sitcom-ish reality show that's just not based on reality. I know what the fuck is really going on.

Did you see Alan Thicke's show? What? No. He had Alan Thicke's show? What? No. He had an Alan Thicke, this reality show. No. You would watch him and you'd go, why didn't you just do a sitcom? Because it's just so set up. It's so set up. Everything is set up.

Yeah, the Gene Simmons thing is like that too, right? Exactly. It's awful. It's sad and I love Gene Simmons. I love Gene Simmons. Do you have a Kiss shirt on? Yeah. I love Kiss.

I found a letter the other day. Paul Stanley's coming in. I found a letter the other day that I read's coming in. I found a letter the other day that I read, I wrote, rather, to some magazine when I was 11 years old. Like a kiss letter. Yeah, my mom saved it. So I'm going to bring it in and read it to Paul Stanley. What's his new show?

Don't they have a new show? Gene Simmons has a new show. Him and Paul Stanley have some arena football show. I don't know what they're doing. I don't know what they're doing. But the reality show, that reality show, those are hard to watch. Especially with ones like, why is Mark Wahlberg doing a reality show? He's killing it in life. Yeah, but he's getting exposed as being a doofus by his reality show.

That's what I mean. It makes him look like, it just looks like a desperate move when it's not. It's a narcissistic move, I guess. I don't even think it's that. I think he probably wants to help all those other people out. That's help his brothers. Yeah, he's helping his brothers and his family out. It's admirable.

He's helping them, like actually helping them, like giving them money so it's like come earn a little bit, I guess. I think having him a part of it, without a doubt, I mean, he's a mega movie star. Having him a part of it ensures its success. People want to see Mark Wahlberg hanging around with his family, period. I'll watch a show, a reality show that I find interesting to some degree, at least give it a couple chances. I very much enjoy Mark Wahlberg,

but I couldn't even drum up a reason to give it a shot to watch that, other than to watch it for the wrong reasons. And if he's welcoming that, that's kind of weird. Well, what we were saying earlier, I think, is really true about these reality shows being completely scripted. But the reason why is because these kind of shows can happen

where they're just boring. Nothing's happening. You know, if the Kardashians aren't fighting with their mom or fighting with their boyfriend, or this guy's out of rehab, or that girl's pregnant, it's always like something you're tuning into. There's always some chaos. So they know how to hook you up.

Oh, the best one is the best show by far, and I recommend that actually watch it. It's always like something you're tuning into. There's always some chaos. So they know how to hook you up. Oh, the best one is the best show by far. And I recommend it actually. Like, watch it. It's great. Even if you skim through it on DVR. The Bad Girls Club. You ever see that? I've heard of it.

I could watch that over and over. I can't force myself. They're pieces of shit. I mean, these chicks are garbage. And every week they fight. Don't put it online. They fight over, just immediately, out of the gates. It's like, this bitch every week they fight. Don't put it online. They fight over, just immediately,

out of the gates. It's like, this bitch thinks she's cute. And they're like, what'd you say, bitch? And then they, hospital fights. Fights that get them

to the hospital. Well, that's how they stay on television. Oh yeah, and then the producers come out and they say like, look, we let you guys fight, you know, it happens,

but you hit her in the eyeball with a high heel, so we're gonna have to ask you to leave. And that's like a teary, like, you know, I You know, it happens. But you hit her in the eyeball with a high heel. So we're going to have to ask you to leave. And that's like a teary, like, you know, I'm going to miss my girls. It's ridiculous. Hit her in the eyeball with a high heel. Yeah, man.

And people will take things to the next level because that's how you get noticed. If you don't take things to the very next level, you don't get noticed. Yeah, it works. I mean, that's why. I mean, the UFC is such a great example of that. It's buried boxing, you know what I mean? It sort of has. Well, the problem with boxing is there's only like a few big stars.

There's like a few fights that you want to see. And they're just going to punch, like the Floyd Mayweather-Maidana fight this past weekend. Right. Mayweather's a master. He's a master boxer. It's beautiful to watch. I mean, he really knows how to fight. I mean, he's just one of the rare, like him and Bernard Hopkins, James Toney is a master. He's a master boxer. It's beautiful to watch. He really knows how to fight. He's just one of the rare real, like him and Bernard Hopkins,

James Toney is a good example. Just a real Andre Ward. Just boxing masters. If you understand how difficult it is, what they're doing, it's amazing to watch. You're watching a guy paint a really beautiful picture where in MMA you get that too and you get to

satisfy that gladiator urge that you want to see two guys fight. My ears perk up on any time I see people fighting on the street or anything. It's like... Yeah, that's human DNA. It's part of it. Yeah. Well, just the added elements of takedowns and chokes and slams,

and it makes it more crazy. Kicks. And if you're a guy who's a fighter, if you're a young man who can box, the reason why there's no stars, I think, is you're almost like, oh, I could probably learn some spin kicks. And really, that's such a much more glorious way to win. Anthony Pettis cage kicks wins are the prettiest thing you've ever, better than any, or at least tied with any great Tyson knockout.

And I love Tyson knockouts. Brian, what are you doing? great Tyson knockout. And I love Tyson knockouts. Brian, what are you doing? There's that fight that we were talking about earlier where a student, a black girl, attacks a teacher and starts slapping him and stuff like that. Don't say what it is. Let's show it.

Are we going to get in trouble for this? No. Is this WorldStarHipHop? No, I think it was on the news. That's the best. So this is like someone filming with their iPhone. Yeah. Is that what happened?

Yeah. Oh, lower it. Shit. Whoa, shit. Oh, my God. She's attacking the teacher. Whoa, this is crazy. This chick is just swinging at the teacher.

Oh, he judo hip-tossed her and held her down. Whoa, that's crazy. That school needs crazy Joe Clark. Holy shit. They need a lean-on-me principal. I think I would have went more crazy. He handled it way better than if that chick started slapping me. Well, this gets into the subject of what we were talking about the other day

with Anthony Cumia getting hit on the street while he's taking photographs. People don't react well. That guy reacted very well to getting hit. He didn't hit back. Right. A lot of people just hit back when they get hit. And especially if you're a man and you're hitting a woman, anytime people are hitting people, even if a woman hits you,

it's fucking dangerous, man. Getting punched in the face is and you're hitting a woman, anytime people are hitting people, if a woman hits you, it's fucking dangerous, man. Getting punched in the face is, like, everybody thinks that a woman can punch you in the face and you're going to be fine. Like, no, there's a lot of women that'll knock you the fuck out, man. Especially if they connect on your jaw. You can't be hitting people. And if you can't, you know, if you do hit people,

man, you got to be really careful who you're hitting because if they hit you back, like, if that guy just decided to tee off on that chick, I mean, you've got to be really careful who you're hitting because if they hit you back, like if that guy just decided to tee off on that chick, I mean, you see the way he threw her to the ground? That's a guy who knows martial arts for sure. And he was avoiding all of her hitting him, but he wasn't hitting her back. But if he did, man, you're running in flailing your arms and some guy uncorks one on your face. You fall back. You're unconscious.

You're going to bounce your head off the ground. And sometimes people die from that shit. And that's a real problem. You fall back, you're unconscious. You're going to bounce your head off the ground. And sometimes people die from that shit. And that's a real problem. When people get knocked out, they fall down and they hit their head on the ground and die. It's like you're pretty much maybe having a really bad car accident with your face. Yeah, it's just like that. It's the ground is completely, like, there's, it resists 100%. Like, there's no give to it.

If you fall in dirt, you're going to be probably okay. If you fall in a grassy area, you'll get a concussion. But you might crack your head wide open if you fall in concrete. I've seen it, man. Like a bowling ball. You ever dropped a bowling ball? That sound? Imagine that's your head.

Yeah, and the amount of distance that your head travels. If you're a six-foot-tall man and someone knocks you out, you're probably going to travel a good five and a half, six feet. I mean, depending on how you're standing, you go unconscious, that's a lot of distance, probably more than six feet, because you're going to fall back first, too. I mean, there's probably going to be a lot of momentum connected to your head bouncing off that concrete.

It's awful. it's awful it's awful those fucking videos freak me out man oh the fight videos yeah some crazy face kicks and stuff i can't believe i'm almost like so shocked at the mentality of someone that can do like inflict that kind of harm on somebody i always think that there's a lot of them out there that people aren't aware of so i'm not shocked when i see it I'm always like fucking knew it I know there's people like that out there I know there's people that have experienced just awful shit from the time they were born if you grow up in a household where everybody's beating the fuck out of everybody and you go to school and

people beat the fuck out of everybody you see abuse and you see people are going to jail left and right and life has no value and you're seeing people die. That's what you're seeing when you watch those world star hip hop tapes where a dude's out cold and guys are running by

just punting him in the head. I've seen a bunch of those. Yeah, me too. It's always like, it's shocking that someone can do that to somebody else. That's a wake up call

for people, man. Unless you're in, if your life was directly threatened and you were in that kind of a rage, but once somebody's down, I don't know,

I've been in a lot, I've been in a, let's say for a guy my age, a decent amount of street fights in my life, but I've never, I've never had like a kill urge ever.

You know, I've lost, I've won, but even when I win, like when it's over, it's kind of over. You know what I mean? I've never like

tried to put somebody like down, you know, hospitalized. I guess it would depend on why you're fighting right yes but that's my point but even if like i don't know if it was a guy beating the shit out of your girlfriend you know i'm saying sure you know i'm saying like what if you pulled up somewhere and just got there right when a guy was beating the shit out of your girl i'm not saying not to knock him out but i mean like to punch somebody's head like i don't know i just don't know where my killer rage kicks in. Like actual murderous rage. I don't know where that level is in me.

Yeah, I think. I think it's pretty deep. I'm a pretty mellow dude. Yeah, but I think if you were confronted. I mean, you might be. I don't know you. But if you were confronted by someone that you were trying to protect, someone that you cared about very much and you're trying to protect them, that's when people get murderous. When they feel like someone is a being, like someone's trying to murder someone you love. That's when people get murderous when they feel like someone is a being like someone's trying to murder someone you love that's when people get murderous you know

that's a very common one but i'm saying my point is being like a street i promise whatever the situations were on the world star hip-hop videos where guys are getting face punted i promise they weren't it wasn't calling for that yeah you most likely punting a guy who's already unconscious well i've seen a few of them where it's people just being drunk idiots. Yeah, laughing. Yeah, or talking shit or starting a fight when they were too drunk and they got knocked out. And then once they were out, everybody just started taking free shots at them. Did you ever see that?

It's literally the worst people in the world, quite possibly. And I think you would agree, especially someone who's trained in martial arts, which you have. Have you ever seen that video of the guy, the weird homeless black guy who's crazy and he goes into the karate studio? Oh, yeah, and they kill him. I don't know if he's dead, but... That was supposedly what happened was he died. I mean, the noise he's making after that excess. And what's ridiculous about it, it was such a cock wagging because the reason that guy

went so far is because when he was trying to do a show off like, oh, let me stand up and fight this guy and shut him up, he wasn't doing very good. Yeah. The karate guy was not beating his ass in this fight. This weirdo was actually giving him a hard time to some degree. Well, the other guy knew how to fight a little bit. The other guy knew how to fight a little bit. The other guy knew how to fight a little bit. The guy got killed?

Yeah, he definitely had to. You think so, really? Yeah, enough that he had been in fights before. He wasn't totally helpless. The guy beat the shit out of him, but you were right. In the beginning,

he wasn't getting the best out of it. Yeah. I think the guy had probably, I mean, he must have had some street fighting. Yeah. And he was also crazy.

He was crazy. But the guy thought, yeah, the guy thought he was going to kind of like knock him around a bit and make him look stupid but it was taking him long. We should Snopes that

because I don't even know if that's true. You know, man kills man in, homeless man in Karate Academy. Now I feel racist

for assuming he's homeless. I don't know if he's homeless. I think he is. I mean, that's what the story always was. Yeah, the guy's black and crazy. He's probably homeless. In Karate Academy.

Snopes. Let's see. Karate instructor unofficial.com. Murder of mentally challenged man. Yeah. It seems like it really happened, man. But, I mean, those face stom face stomps like what kind of human being does that but i mean the kind of guy who gets a buzz cut and grows a mustache and and

works in a karate school do you know i mean like that guy seems like not that you can't be crazy and be all those things but doesn't it seem like a guy was a little put together well the guy who was the main guy was a Marine. He's a karate instructor. And he let his student, who fought this guy, and his student allegedly actually killed this guy. It's like the real-life Cobra Kai's. They fed a real evil karate teacher. Yeah, but there's a thing, man, that people do. There's a video, Brian, if you want to pull it up.

Well, actually, we probably shouldn't see someone getting killed, right? It's brutal. I mean, it's online. It's a tough one to watch, even. Well, he was up for assault on the 18th of the month on an unregulated charge.

Wow. I don't know what the fuck actually happened. You think if it's true, you think with that kind of evidence, should that guy die? Okay, this is stupid, man. They don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Hold on a second. This is one of the things that says, Sources in the medical and law enforcement community tell us

that indeed the victim must have died. The snoring at the end is so-called agonal breathing and a sign of massive brain damage and impending death. That's just not true. It isn't true. When you get knocked out, you snore. Whoever said that has never seen someone get knocked the fuck out.

When people get knocked out, they have that horrible snoring. It happens all the time. That's really scary. Scary as shit. Scary as shit. The first time I saw it, I was 16. I saw somebody laid out just... It doesn't mean they're going to die.

That's not true at all. So whoever wrote this story, I don't believe them now. This guy should come out and do a show. It'd be funny if he just comes and he has a diagonal face. His face has just got the guy's footprint in it still. There's a video of it, and there's all these stories of it but none of them substantiate any like legal stuff i guess you'd have to look into it deep enough but apparently this shit was a long time ago yeah it looked like it was a long time but i mean based on the theory that if he did die do you think that

guy deserves to die the guy who did it the guy who died deserves to die? The guy who did it? The guy who died deserves to die? No, no. Or the guy who killed him? The guy who killed him. Well. With that kind of evidence, like it's clearly from that. It's clear that they were fighting. I don't know what the conversation was that led that guy to be fighting that guy.

I don't know if he said, I'm going to come in and fight to the death. I don't. You know what I'm saying? Do you know what I'm saying? I don't. It didn't seem like that kind of a dark, underground, like,

Kumite situation. It's like some place in Des Moines, Iowa. Right. It was in, I think it was in, somewhere in Georgia. But anyway,

the guy was a schizophrenic. So, it really doesn't matter what he said. He's crazy. I mean, that's why, it happened in Virginia,

December 13th, 1984. And he's obviously crazy, too. That's the thing. He walks in, you're like, this guy's a,

and you could have, you, that guy literally also could have hugged him, and that would have ended the situation. Do you know what I mean? There's a thing that happens in martial arts schools, though, where if you're running a martial arts school, crazy people will show up, and they'll start, like, they'll start shit. I've seen it. I've seen it firsthand.

I've seen it at my Taekwondo school. He would My instructor Would take guys like that That would come into schools And he would make them Spar with black belts And put them Just like

You know He'd go Okay so you know How to fight You're a pretty good guy Right We're going to do Some sparring here

Okay You have your gear We have gear for you Do you have your gear And he would like Lure these guys in Because They would come to school

And they would go You are a false master you are a false master. You are a false master. You don't truly know martial arts. And they'd try to reason with them. Listen, sir, you can watch a class, but you can't yell things out. There's nutty people that'll come in that have real mental issues. And they could be dangerous.

They also could be martial arts trained, too. There's a lot of people that just learned how to throw kicks and punches from friends like like if you teach an athletic person how to deliver a good straight punch and just show them the mechanics of it and they practice on a heavy bag they can fuck you up if they hit you you know they don't really have to be like really well trained and disciplined and so there's a lot of people that have martial arts abilities like the ability to punch you really hard in the face but they don't really know how to fight they don't they've never been formally trained but they might charge you and punch you in the face and they could be really dangerous so if you're in this sort of a scenario like that a lot of times these martial

arts instructors are forced to defend themselves against these crazy people sure that didn't seem like that yeah didn't seem like that in this video this video, it seemed like they lured the guy in, set him up, and then beat the shit out of him to death. The saddest part is at one point during like, when they're just kind of like, it almost seems like slap boxing, the homeless guy stops him and he goes, you're good.

He gives him like a compliment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he goes, you're good. Yeah, it's kind of a fucked up video, man. And he starts saying, and he does, he starts saying don't, stop. At one point he does tell him to stop, and then it just gets so... The guy won't stop.

And he's stomping on him while he's down. It's gross. I don't know if the guy died. But if the guy did die, yeah, that's basically murder. I mean, it's like... Perfect example. What we said is, where would that murderous rage come out? Would it come out if someone was trying to kill your mom?

You probably would. Sure. It probably would come come out but this guy wasn't in that scenario this guy was like the guy was saying don't like yeah he was saying stop he had given up like a healthy person backs away at that point yeah it's like it's merciless right it's just complete like i think i was so offended somehow but i wonder if they just got away with shit like that and this is the only one that people saw. Like, I wonder if this had happened more than once. Because, like, if a guy's willing to beat a guy to death like that and then dispose of a body, and this is the only piece of evidence that some schizophrenic guy was murdered,

like, that motherfucker's probably killed a bunch of people before. And he's a Marine. That's the other thing. Yeah. We don't know what kind of action he saw. You know, if you have, you know, you're serving your country and you're used to killing people on a regular basis,

then you come back home and some fucking crazy schizo guy wants to come into your karate school and talk shit. Yeah, you'll let a guy kill him. Like, why not? You've been killing people for years. In the 80s, that was like how they, like, Yelp reviewed, like, karate schools.

Like, how many homeless guys have you killed? Three homeless guys and counting. I was a part of many challenge matches where people showed up at the school and I got to watch them fight friends. I fought dudes that just showed up at the school. That was a super common thing. But you can more or less with that. Well, we took them to the hospital.

You deliver a couple. Really? Oh, yeah. We took a lot of those guys to the hospital after we beat them up. We'd bring them to the hospital. You deliver a couple, really? Oh yeah, we took a lot of those guys to the hospital after we beat them up. We'd bring them to the hospital after they sparred. But easily could have happened to me. I mean, I was good, but there's a lot of good guys that came in too.

There were? Yeah, guys that had talent. And when they say they weren't in the fight, would you put on gloves? Depends. Depends on what they said. A lot of it was bare knuckle. Really? Yeah, yeah. Because you didn't know what they wanted to A lot of it was bare knuckle. Really? Yeah, yeah. Because you didn't know what they wanted to prove. What I've never, and I've never been good at,

even back in school when it was the meet me at the library, I'd throw a punch then. See, I never. When the guy would say it because I was like, I'd say, if I got to think about it until three, I probably won't show. I'll probably chicken out later. I'm angry now.

Let's just do it. Let's get into it. That's probably the best way to get everything broken up and keep it from being something that no teachers or adults know about. The problem is if you go in a field, meet me in the field, then it's like children of the corn. Someone can get killed, yeah. Because Lord of the Flies.

I had to do that a few times. It was with bullies, and it always sucked, but it always turned out me beating them up, so it was great. What kind of bullies did you beat up? One was... All girls? One is now a cop, and the other guy, I think, is dead. Wow.

Most of the guys who talk the most shit, though, just never had to really be confronted with somebody stepping up to it. When you're a kid, everyone's kind of... I mean, I bought into it, too. like stepping up to it yeah when you're a kid everyone's kind of i mean i bought into it too that's why i said but whatever was instilled in me by my dad and step-pop was like very much like get it going while you're angry you know i mean like don't don't wait for it and that's why uh what i was going to ask when they'd come in they'd say like you know rogan go teach this punk a lesson like what was going on we didn't have a conversation about yeah you'd get nervous as fuck but the idea behind it was my instructor was training a bunch of people for national tournaments.

So the idea was like these guys can't hang with you. You're a national level competitor. And this is a good thing to experience because it's very dangerous. So you're going to have to perform under some very real pressure. Like people just swinging at your face. And you're dancing around inside this closed area looking to knock each other out and it happened a lot it happened i mean not a lot but it happened every three four months over the course of like seven years that i was there every three or four months some guy from another school would come into town and would want to show people up would like you want to show

everybody how much better his style was and people would duke it out it was it was crazy when you stop and think about it this is all pre-ufc and there was a lot of delusional people too there was a lot of people that thought their martial art literally could not be beaten they did a certain type of wing chung and if they could go to a taekwondo school and spar they would just run through people there would be no way they could stop them did you get half off your monthly dues if you won the fight i didn't i didn't pay at after a certain amount of time i taught so if you won the fight? I didn't pay after a certain amount of time. I taught. If you kill three homeless people, you don't have to pay.

When I was a kid, I started out when I was really young. When I was 15, I was completely dedicated, and I was there every day. So they would give me things to do. They would give me, I would clean things,

or I would teach classes. I taught a lot of private lessons. The people that are first starting out, you have to learn in private lesson form. And since I advanced really quickly, and I'd spent so much time there, I was pretty good at breaking down the technical aspects of certain moves.

You know what's funny? And pardon the hand job here, but I think you're a fantastic comedian. Super funny. And you have such the origin story of a guy who would not be. Do you know what I mean? But yet i know a few people like that too people that are very like strict in life about certain things mike veccione hilarious comedian standing is like a very like regimented guy grew up football he was

good at it he excelled wrestling went to penn state wrestling there you know and then but hilarious comedian but usually it doesn't breed the funny guy. Yeah, I think people have. Usually the introvert or the weird kind of like social awkward guy or the class clown type goes on to that. But it's not usually someone who's like a strict, like, you know, usually that story becomes like, you know, I have four kids. They all wear dockers and fucking sweaters.

No one says fucking. But I'm not like a, I i'm not strict i just get into things i'm just very motivated like i'm more like i wouldn't say i'm disciplined as much as i get more obsessed you know i'm disciplined at things that i'm obsessed about but i'm not like a strict person and in the other way like i'm not just socially i'm just saying usually the the comics who like a guy who's in shape and doing comedy and like cares about that and cares about his health like just tends to not always be it's usually a guy it's like you know some fucking some pig the other day you know this fat broad

because you know at 165 pounds you slob you know just being like that you're like who's relating to this right right and and you definitely transcend that but, but I mean, that's what I'm saying. It's weird that, I don't think that always happens. I think it's more of an odd thing. It could happen. I think more the guy's like, you know,

so I was getting, it's when all of your flaws kind of become your virtues in comedy, you know? So the nerd who got beat up, now he's telling his stories about getting beaten up and now girls will fuck him

because he knows how to tell it funny. Do you know what I mean? That's usually the origin story. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be. See, that's the cool thing about comedy is there's so many versions. You know, like black guys have always had that thing where they're allowed to dress up really cool on stage, wear gold chains and crazy leather outfits. Like, remember Eddie Murphy in Delirious and in Raw? But it's the entire difference of black comedy and white comedy.

If you're going're gonna take by those circuits i said there's definitely comics that bridge both worlds but uh the difference in is like white mainstream comedy is very like self-deprecating you know yeah my little dick fat guy bald whatever it is and black is really like so i'm slanging the dick right and it's just like i mean the fucking the stool at a black comedy club is probably yeah owed a lot of money in civil court to just like it's been fucked i mean yeah just like off the side stages of a bunch of like broken up stools like from uh from gang rapings i mean they're so like but when i would watch i grew up like a big fan of comedy and watching like

everyone in the 80s that i would watch to getting to where def jam became the thing I loved all that too And I just didn't even know I almost didn't even notice the difference that comedy taking a turn to like, you know How good you are at fucking and how big your dick is Well, it's comedy can be Anything man, it's just got to be funny. That's what people don't understand Like if anybody wants to say that like i've heard people say this this is like a social justice warrior thing that they say that real comedy always punches up meaning like get it get at the bad person that's

above you dominating you the boss the president real comedy punches up and you know you don't pick on any people that are below you but the reality is sometimes punching down is fucking hilarious sure it's not it's not always but it's about what what is the subject matter like what it like you could like i remember louis ck doing a bit about how his kid is a fucking asshole sure and it was really fucking funny because first of all you knew he wasn't serious right it was i mean he was talking about his kid in a frustrated way, about a kid just being a kid. I'm sure he loves his kid like he loves life itself.

But because he's punching down. He's shitting on his kid for being an asshole. Sure, sure. And it's hilarious. There's no rules. There's no rules like a guy has to be self-deprecating. The guy's saying, so I'm slinging that dick, right? I'm giving that good dick right i'm giving

that good dick you know when you're giving that good dick and you feel that asshole reverberating off your ball sack every time you come down home you could be crying laughing listening to that crying laughing or you could be crying laughing listening to a guy who talks about it we can never get laid there's the variable in those things is just, is it funny or is it not funny? That's the important variable. Me and my buddy watched a Nick Cannon special. You want to have fun, man.

Get stoned and just watch a Nick Cannon special. It's just, if you like, I love watching just ridiculously horrible comedy. It's my favorite thing in the world. I can't do it. And just watching Nick Cannon by an hour of television so he can slowly but surely peel down from a tuxedo to a tank top is one of the first he has a backdrop that's just a million light bulbs so when he moves it's gonna give you a fucking seizure and his jokes are all like you know you meet a girl

up in a club and you're all like spladoosh. Just noises. And then apparently Mariah Carey was texting that night, like live tweeting or whatever. And she goes, I told you my baby was funny. Oh my God. Did she say that? I love that. If you want to watch a show that will just bring joy to your life, have you ever heard of Bill Bellamy's Who Got Jokes?

No. Oh, wow. I'm scared. Just take a weekend and really dig into it because it's a... I don't think I have it in me. It's a comedy. Yeah, you don't like watching bad comedy? No.

This is... It's on TV One, which is a black TV network. I didn't know they existed. Yeah. It's called TV One, and Bill Bellamy hosts it. Is it a new show? No. It's called TV One, and Bill Bellamy hosts it. Is it a new show? No. It's done now, I think, too.

Tommy from Martin. But it airs on marathons on this network. Tommy from Martin is called the Pope of Comedy. He sits on a throne and judges. As three comics come out, and they do the first round, it's just their set in front of an audience. And there's three people from the audience picked at random to be the judges where they give a score from one to five. Five being the best, one being the worst.

Everyone gets a five. And if you give someone a four, the audience loses their shit. They get very mad at you. That's round one. The comedy has always gone awful. And then it's unpreparedpared usually it looks like these guys know they were going to do a tv show that day and uh and then round two they come out and they do some kind of like challenge that you don't know what so they have a heckler in the audience or

somebody comes out like actually they're a producer and hit you in the face with a pie and you got to keep going and then they judge you score from one to five and it's just horrible, horrible comedy but it makes me laugh. Why does it do, why does that make you laugh? Just like, because it works.

I'm amazed by, I'm very interested and there's actually a science to comedy. Don't you find that interesting? There's like actual science. You can just say the right words.

Have you ever seen Comedy Hypnotist? No. Never seen one You can just say the right words. Have you ever seen a comedy hypnotist? No. Never seen one of those guys? Mm-mm. Dude, you got to see a comedy hypnotist if you get a chance, a real one. I just assume it's fake, yeah. No, no, not fake at all.

There's something that really stupid people are susceptible to that you're not susceptible to. Someone can say some things to you on stage snap their finger and some people literally go into a trance sure they can do it those people will laugh at anything too they're dumb as fuck i think what the reality of this world is that there's people that are their brains don't work so good they just don't and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it it's not about education it's not about how much information you give them it's not about the environment they're in they have nine volt brains no i know and like what's funny is to get the audience the audience has never communally stood up to someone who's like that's hacky like the audience never says

that's always being judged by other comments say this is in general like when there's a hacky comic on stage usually he's destroying it depends on where you're at right i mean if you're in la or new york those guys could be beat and shit possibly but forums like this where comics and people get to talk and like there's so much inside information out now i think it kind of weeds through that happening and now i think the audiences are a little smarter in some circles but they have to be fans like if you do you remember like going to see comedy when you first started to go to open mic nights? Yeah. You see guys that you thought were really funny, and then a year later, you fucking

couldn't even be in the room when they're on stage. Oh, I mean the people I worshipped when I started. I was like, just the way he kills. I've got to do a joke where I open up and say, DJ, put that shit on one more time. Because everyone had to have one of those. i used to get down to underwear on stage used to get down to my underwear posing to the 2001 theme oh god and then one day no one left i didn't do it ever again i went to see this guy when i was in uh when i was in uh boston before i did stand up i went to see this uh comedy at uh play it again sam's it was like this like movie house that had stand up in the basement and this guy

did these like fake ad libs and i i knew they were fake while i was happening i didn't understand comedy but he pointed to me and he goes and this guy's over here saying this but i didn't say anything i don't remember what it was but i remember like he's like what i i couldn't believe that he was pretending that there was some sort of a weird interaction between us for the rest of the audience and so i realized that this guy was just bullshitting and his acts kind of this fake dance and then as i got to know him i kept seeing him over and over and over again he was doing the same thing every time he would he would set bit up, he would point to a guy in the audience, and he's like this,

and he would say the same thing. He had his fake ad libs with the crowd. There was no variation. So if you saw him more than once, the act was done. The veil had been lifted. And it doesn't bring any joy to watch that level of shitty comedy happen?

No, it makes me sad. That makes me laugh. So I used to, any show, it comes i just can't believe something when you watch somebody they're on television and their first joke is now i know what you guys are thinking actually i had a guy open for me one time on the road where he had a joke i forget what was even was it about but whatever it was the crowd never laughed in the middle of it and he goes uh so my family used to run a funeral home.

He goes, now you guys laugh. And he goes into his joke, but no one laughed at that. But every time he goes, now you guys laugh. But that's always funny. Now I know what you're thinking. You see me, and I'm like, it happens a lot. I feel like you should never, and a lot of us do but you should never get on television with your first ever set you know when you go on when you go on

the road and me you know as a when i when i go on the road and someone opens for me i'm generally getting somebody doing their first set you remember that like when every time you got on stage it was the introduction like so my name's jay and i blah blah blah you know it's like first day girl comedy so i'm so-and-so and i'm a total slut and i sex with my friends and but it's just like uh that but that first set makes it on tv a lot now because there's so many forums yeah but that's just life you just gotta move on just deal with it it's probably not good to have your first set but if you've been doing stand-up for 10 years or whatever it is when you get your first set on TV, six years, just fucking accept it sucks. Yeah.

Accept that it sucks and move on. And you won't know it sucks until you see it. You got to watch it on TV later in your career when you're better, and you go, ugh. But yeah, I'm almost saying I'm surprised that the behind-the-scenes don't catch up to like, it seem like there's no like uh they don't take any cues from the actual community of comedy itself do you know i mean they're like this guy's been doing comedy for five months like of course he should be on letterman do you know i mean like the behind the scenes people no they're always looking for someone to come along it's a prodigy that figures it out after four months so weird but i don't know if they do that person any favors

well they definitely don't they don't give a though. All they care about is what can they sell. Just like the reality show, if you've noticed, if you've watched the video, I've moved into a new chair, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know if this one's going to make it. I don't know. I think the other thing is better. The no back thing's better. But they're just trying to sell you. Sure.

If they can sell the hookers, you only been doing stand for five months, they're going to protect you they're not going to go oh that big jay he's got potential for the future let's not put his five month old comedy set no the fuck you get on tv who gives a shit sink or swim there's many more people they have to pay attention to they don't give a fuck about look i'm sure the fucking what's it the hunger games people are pretty thrilled that jay law snatches out there. That's huge for them. Just drew a whole new audience to that show. Yeah, I don't know how those two are connected, but we're talking about someone being hacked now.

That's not what I was talking about. I thought you were saying about selling things. I'm saying the companies that don't care, like the movie companies don't care how she gets exposed. You know what I mean? It does them a good job. They don't protect her. They don't come out. Well, they would have protected her i'm sure they probably wouldn't have let it be released but it but it's to their benefit now that it is i kind of guess so yeah yeah but it's a different thing that was a pothead in my mind i was like did it

have nothing to do with it i'm like no there was a connection in my mind there was something there i guess i guess i've never i've only seen the first one now i want to watch more after singer I'm like, no, there was a connection in my mind. There was something there. I guess. I guess. I've only seen the first one. Now I want to watch more after Seeing Her Naked. Right, which is good for the company. So the movie company, even though it's like they pay her and she has a relationship with them, they don't give a fuck if something to her detriment builds up their movie. Yeah, I could see that. Probably.

Yeah, probably after it's over. They probably would have protected her from it getting out. But once it's out, they're like, they probably would have protected her from it getting out. But once it's out, they're like, hey, look, in the long run, we're going to do Brooke. She looks great. Yeah. I sat around the office and, yeah. It's true. She looks great.

I mean, but the only way you're ever going to get protected as a comic is if you have a manager. And the manager will say, listen, Jay, you know, let's keep hitting the clubs and, you know, wait a year. You know, wait a couple of years. Just work. Where's that manager at? Jeff Sussman. Yeah? My guy.

Yeah. It's hard. You've got to develop comedians. You've got to treat them as a long-term project. You can't move people into a house before you even put a roof on it. And you can't pretend it's done when it's not done. And when you see a young guy that's got potential, I mean, everybody that we've ever met, they go through periods.

Like you were talking about your black comedy period. Sure. People go through these weird phases where they're trying to find themselves as, I hate to use the word, but artist. Trying to find myself as an artist, man. But the thing is, there's a video of you five months in, and then it's terrible, but there's a way better video two years later, well, if someone watches both, they go, oh, Jay got better.

You know, it's just, there's nothing wrong with- Oh, yeah. Oh, I did BET's Comic View thrice. Three times. Yeah. So, I mean, like- Who was hosting? The first one ever was Lester Barry, who was a black circuit comic.

Very religious. Nice. The second time I did it was Arnaz J in Miami. Nice. And the third time third time was funny because I said by this point I go I'm not doing Comic View ever again. Like I just I've written that one off. I'm not doing it. It's always an awkward situation when I go there too. Why?

Because I'm the only white guy. The production is white and they put some weird responsibility on me to be like the den mother of the comics no so i'd like smoke cigarettes and i'd go outside i'm gonna go outside and smoke a cigarette she was okay wait a second she was everyone jay's going to smoke if you want to smoke go out now with him and everyone's got to be back in here in 15 minutes and and then she tried to give me all of their food tickets so i'd be responsible for them. It was very bizarre.

Just because you're white? Yeah, I assume so. Wow. That said, a lot of the black comics will do things like I'm going to go out and smoke and then go like, you know,

fuck a chick for five hours. Try to come back 15 minutes before the show starts. Like, that did happen. Well, what'd they want you to do? Just hang out all day waiting for the show to start? Oh, they put you there

at nine in the morning until night. I went on at midnight. What? Yeah, because they just don't want they just wrangle everybody because they don't believe anyone's gonna stay they have no no belief they're gonna stay there they've done entire shows about how hacky they are like they'll do a show where the same joke gets repeated by different comedians well yeah and so i went and did it kevin hart ended up posting the i think one of the last ever seasons but it was called one mike stand and

or something like i think it's what it's called one mike stand but it wasn't called comic view and kev called me and asked me if i wanted to do it or if i would do it and i said yeah but i don't want to do comic view anymore he goes it's not comic view it's different they're flying people out now. They're doing it all right and set it up good. And it was when I signed the contract, it's Comic View presents one mic stand. They gave us a big speech before we taped anything. And the guy was like, we're changing Comic View.

It's going to be different. And the guy specifically said, no more stool humping and DJ hit it and pulling out fake teeth. And I mean, we weren't three comics in before a guy was wearing fake teeth and fucking a stool. I mean, not even. And by the way, when he's giving this speech to it, these same guys who are getting ready to fuck stools and put in fake teeth are doing like, you know, like staring at him, give the speech and like nodding their heads like like Pacino speech in any given Sunday.

Like it's like an emotional, powerful speech, how we're changing comic view now. And then they went and put the fake teeth and they're like, yeah, let's go out there and show the world something. And then two minutes later, you're like,

DJ, put that shit back on. You can fuck a bitch with fake teeth to this one. Those black circuits made for some great great great stories I had a guy one time this is a true story

Kev used to host a club in Atlantic City Kevin Hart called Sweet Cheeks Sweet Cheeks violent it was like a pimps and players ball

no bullshit it was like everyone was wearing like zoot suits and shit and bringing like three chicks a piece and they were all dressed up fancy but they they interrupt dancing to do a comedy show in the middle of the fucking night. Like two, three o'clock in the morning.

What? Yeah. And I was hosting at one time for Kev. He couldn't do it. And they hated me. They absolutely didn't like me at all. And I was going to bring a comic on stage and i go uh like all right but i'm gonna bring up next to go what's your name and he goes uh ignit nigga and i was

like dude don't make me say that please and he's like that's my name man it's my stage name and i kept i begged him to let me call him by his regular name and i go it's not gonna go good if i say he goes it's fine man i'll explain it's my name you know he set you up yeah when he went on stage he goes you're gonna let that white boy call me a nigga? And I left. I just left the show. I drove home. Yeah, that was like, it was a dangerous place, man.

The bouncer outside was a bounty hunter also. So he would run IDs for everybody that walked in. Like, he'd get five people a night on warrants. Wow. Isn't that crazy? He was a bounty hunter and an ID checker. Yeah. That's like fishing in a fucking swimming pool.

Really? Yeah. That's so not fair. That seems like you're shooting deer in a stock pond. Yeah. You know what I mean? That just seems really fucked up, especially at a nightclub. Yeah, and it was just like-

And a pimps and players nightclub. Yeah, they threw chicken wings at me one time wow it was uh and i think yeah i think i was doing that joke where i was getting down to my underwear who the fuck wants them to do comedy at two o'clock in the morning in a place where they have dancing they do i used to do these ski trip shows that were like black ski trips and black people don't even ski at all they don't they'd go and they they'd take a bus thing they'd go to this hotel and they'd all just like fuck each other everyone just fucking drink you know green alcohol and uh and then it was green alcohol just like whatever you know tangerays and something the drinks were always great like thug passion i like that mixed drinks yeah i'd go up

there and open for sometimes i would headline for these black ski trips, and they just fucking hated it. They wanted no parts of the comedy show. I never understand why they force comedy into places where it doesn't need to be at all. Well, people make money. I'm sure Kevin Hart got a nice piece of pie. Maybe. I mean, well, he was very young. We were brand new on comedy.

Yeah, but I mean, if somebody offers it you're like yeah we can do a show there fuck it yeah I mean the bar shows in New York that's become such a thing bar shows

bar shows yeah and I go to them with this you know this expectation what blows my mind about it I think bar shows

are a cool thing to have as far as like open mics basically little produced shows you can get people on but like I'll hear my friends you know

or younger comics who i know and i'll be like where are you at tonight and they go so and so i go oh well do this other thing with me like don't go to that bullshit bar show it's like i've been booked for this for three months like whoa yeah they call you it's like you want to do my bar show it's about 20 seats about 25 people uh you know you get like a drink ticket or half price off drinks and it's on Tuesday at, you know, 9 p.m. somewhere in Nowhereville,

fucking Brooklyn. And then it's like, oh yeah, I guess I can do it. And it's like, you know, oh, okay,

so I'm looking at like, I have my book open here like December. It's like May. Like they really book these things far out. Is that just because there's so many comics in New York?

It is. I think it's a lot of it becomes like people just getting their friends on and shit probably if I had to guess. Right. Because a lot of these shows have become legit to some degree.

Well, if it's a good show, if it's well run, it's very valuable to comedians. Sure. You know you go to Wednesday night comedy juice, the improv. It's always going to be packed. It's a great place to work out material. That becomes valuable. That's the improv, though. Yeah, but you know what I'm saying?

Sure. So shows like that become valuable, and then little side gigs. What is that place you were talking about? Three of Clubs it three clubs yeah i mean like all these we there's tons of bar shows but the like with the old red rocks has one now that's that's like in the corner but the problem is new york is like a billion times more bar shows than la so like all the local comics in la they'll get that one shitty bar show but it's like yeah it's like a month away when they get booked. Like, how many rooms are there all told in New York, if you had to guess?

You live in Manhattan? Yeah. How many rooms do you think? How many stand-up rooms are in the city? Actual clubs? Yeah. We could run through them. Really, a stamp New York comic strip.

Cellar. Cellar. Gotham. Gotham. The Stand. Stand. Carolines. Carolines. Then there's Greenwich Village Comedy Club, New York Comedy Club, Broadway Comedy Club.

New York Comedy Club's still around. Dangerfields. Bought by a new guy, Dangerfields. We're at 10. There is LOL Comedy Club in Times Square. LOL? Yeah. How dare they?

And then there's like places there's like and then like some rooms too. There's Joe Coy there every week. Times Square LOL. LOL. Chicks love him LOL. He's a good dude.

I'm not fucking with him. 11. We're at 11. No 12. And then there's like oh Eastville Comedy Club. 13. I think.

Yeah. I mean it's really it's pretty nuts like there's yeah so that's the major clubs it's real that's the gotham did we say gotham so that's uh that's the major clubs yeah and then on top of that you got how many bar shows you think in the city or around even the boroughs just in the city just in the city just in manhattan i mean there's got to be fucking 10 a night if i had to guess at least wow that's crazy it's also like the people that live in new york and go to new york they're more into like plays and live performances than i think like the west coast is well if you're a young person or any person who's got free time at night and you're looking for some entertainment it's one of the best places in the world to go you can go to the cellar you can go to caroline's you can

see live comedy in new york every night of the week you can see killers you can see you know atel and ck and all these different people show up at clubs i mean it's one of the best places in the world to go out and see live comedy oh new york yeah it's fantastic they're like just to go out i mean that's what people if they've never been in new york before they're like there's so many restaurants there's so many this is somebody that it's a mad scene i drove by the laugh factory last night out here and it was like the line was like wrapped around the building that's because jamie doesn't let people in he wants that line to be wrapped around the building he doesn't just like let people in he makes you stay outside so it looks like a line out and then we're signing up for tomorrow those a lot of them is like the open mic nights like

they have to the open mic nights they make people sit out there from nine o'clock in the morning whatever the fuck the sign up time is and they have to wait in line until they get picked and then they go on next week they don't even go on that week They wait in line all day and they go on the next week. Why exactly? We've been rallying against us next time. Is it just like a control thing exactly? It's a ridiculous idea that he has that in doing so he makes the club look more special because there's always a big line It's tough to get in why put your thumb on people that could eventually like, you know, like say like this is my home This is the club that showed me the love like why yeah i never got that that same evil shit that makes producers put someone on a reality show and then try to own everything about them for the next you know 10

years whatever the fuck it is it's the same thing it's that greedy thing that people do out here this weird creepy fucking behavior where the people that are coming up are not respected as potential equals and if they do somehow or another make it through it's never through their own merit it's because of the the good nature and your you know your generosity that's led them to this position of being a good showbiz person I find it weird with any comedy club that doesn't have comics hanging out at it and like like it like they want people to hang out like comedians to hang out like that place the laugh factory

that's the one thing that i've always heard is like no they don't let you hang out there there's one you can hang out there's a club upstairs i know i think but that's only to like a certain group of like you know the big guys but the the average comic is what they that always tells me that i did a club on the road one time where there was like young comics hanging out so i was like uh i talked to him for a little while and i was like you know if you guys want to go on like you know you can put you guys on like you guys each one do like seven minutes or something go for it and they told me and i confirmed with the club that they go oh no the club doesn't do

guest spots at all i'm like at all i thought it's go, I thought it's kind of up to the headliner if he doesn't care. Is it fine? They go, no, it's just their policy. They don't do it. I go, and when I talked to the manager guy, I was like, why would you discourage comics from hanging out? It's very like, you know what I mean? It's not a friendly environment. Right.

Well, Wendy Curtis, you know. That's kind of the thing is you work those shitty open mic shows. So eventually maybe they'll give you a shot at like hosting a weekend or, you know, That's kind of the thing is you work those shitty open mic shows, so eventually maybe they'll give you a shot at hosting a weekend or doing something like that, guest spots. Do you know Wendy from Comedy Works in Denver? I know who she is. Yeah, she had a great way of describing it. She goes, why would you sell widgets

and not have a widget development team? Why wouldn't you? If you want to sell other people's widgets, you can make your own in-house widgets. What are you doing when you're running a comedy club? You're not developing any local talent? You don't develop any of it? They were moving improvs into town.

She was saying, what are you guys going to do for developing local talent? They're like, nothing. She was like, what? That's alien. She's developed a bunch of comedians out of that club. She has a whole system of taking people from MCs to middle acts to headliners like it's it's this really well thought out really like conscientious system of helping these artists you know sometimes they have their babies though when people come to new york yeah it's always a coin flip of someone's like

what city are you from and you know with Miami. Oh, what was your home club? Oh, the owner there was a piece of shit, treated me like an asshole. What did you say about babies? Some of them are babies? No. What did you say? Did I say babies? Yeah.

I don't know. Because you were saying that people complain about their home club. Well, I said when someone moves to New York from their home club, where they started, it's a coin flip whether they're going to say it was a great experience you know they're very supportive of them they get behind some people the local clubs and then some they just like yeah there's such shitty people but i never understand being shitty to like local talent this is crazy people own clubs you know crazy people on dance clubs crazy people a certain personality type yeah you got to be a hardcore motherfucker to own a bar, you know, and to own a comedy club

and just want to deal with comedians all the time, you gotta be either someone who loves comedy or an insane person. Do you get frustrated when people that are around comedy enough, even if it doesn't make sense in their life, they're like, I'm gonna try, and they start doing open mics or you like, go for it. What do you mean? Do you get like, I know there's club owners in New York even that just fucking

start doing comedy after owning the club for like three years and they're like, I'm doing it. I'm going to give it a shot. Who knows? Maybe they'll be good.

They hire bookers and the bookers start trying to do comedy. It's like very weird. Well, Eleanor, Eleanor Kerrigan, she was a waitress at the comedy store forever.

I knew her as a waitress for more than 10 years. Now she's a real professional comic. She started like many, many years in being around comedy. comedy store forever i knew her as a waitress for more than 10 years now she's a real professional comic she started like many many years in but she had no around comedy no thought about doing it ever nope nope just got a job one day actress she was an actress she did a lot of acting she was in wrestling she did some pro wrestling and uh then somewhere along the line she just decided fuck it i'm gonna go on stage and she started doing stand-up. Yeah, I mean...

Now she's a pro. She's funny. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, she's smart. So she understands what's funny and what's not funny. She knows what's hack and what's not. So she didn't fall on any pitfalls. Maybe I feel the ego strike, because I feel like when it's done... Kurt Metzger? You know Kurt? Yeah, sure.

Kurt's never had a girlfriend that hasn't eventually been like, well, if this shithead can do it, I can do it. And they've never vocalized that. But in my mind, if my chick was like, I want to do comedy, I'd be like, what do you think? It looks super simple? You think it's that easy? You just go, you know what?

I'm going to do your stupid thing. It looks a lot more fun than my stupid thing. Well, it's also when they're around comics, they see how fun it is. And they see how comics think. And then they start thinking like comics and saying ridiculous shit sure if you're if you're around chick like long enough like she'll start like seeing how you pick things apart and make Joe like if you're around someone is really funny at work you know and this is like I said this boss who is a private investigator dude was hilarious

he was just instantly hilarious just would find things that were goofy about people and start and you would just howl with this guy and i i learned a lot like being around him i started doing that too like you start like seeing how he would find these patterns like he was very predatory like the patterns that we find that were fucked up and people and just attack those patterns and it's like teaching you pick it up in relationships people pick it up in friendships so i you know kurt is a funny dude i get these chicks were probably around him they're like you know what i can fucking do this yeah i see what's going on here i guess it means you can make it look effortless maybe but like sort of but also fun you know i mean if you were really fun sure

not enjoying your life and you know not enjoying your job but you saw a guy like you having the fucking time of his life cracking jokes making shit like god damn it i think i could do that he looks it looks way better than a regular job if you're a person that has a regular job and then someone like big j comes along you're hanging out with him and you're watching how he does it you're like this fucking guy's barely working here sure he's just laughing about shit and writing it down and then figuring out a way to say it on stage in a funny way Fuck selling insurance. How many people did you grow up with? Before comedy that genuinely are happy for you like really feel it. What do you mean?

Like do you have like friends some from before comedy still? Yeah Yeah Are they and they're like genuinely happy for your success and like dig what you do. I have one friend from like growing up that I'm still friends with, and it's because he's the only one of my friends that is doing what he wanted to do also. You have to have that self-security before you can like really cheer. I go back to Philly constantly, barely. I mean, I hung out with a lot of people growing up. No one comes out.

No one gives a shit. Really? Yeah. None of them give a shit at all. None of them come to your shows, you mean? Once in a while, one of them will pop up,

but a lot of times they'll say they're coming and they don't show up. I mean, I stopped giving a shit years ago. I realized it all at one time because a bunch of them did come out once

and afterwards they were like, good job, man. So we're all going over. It's like dollar beer night at the so-and-so. You want to hang? I'm like, well, hang here for a few minutes.

Catch up and whatever. They go, the place kind of closes in like an hour and you're like all right bye fuck faces i guess like so what did you want them to like spend more time i didn't even dote over me but i haven't seen these people in a while and i was genuinely curious about what's going on with them but you didn't want to go to their spot but i just also they were very dismissive of the whole thing you know it's like thanks dude pretty good job. It just seemed very like, if they would have been like, wow, dude, this is a pretty extraordinary thing you're doing.

I'm not saying they had to say those words, but if they showed that at all, it makes them have to face the fact that he said he was going to be a pilot, but he's working at a fucking gas station. Do you attribute it to jealousy, or do you just disinterest, or what do you attribute it to? It might be a little bit of both who knows but i know when i first started doing it again like you said the way you did taekwondo it's a heavy commitment especially because i started going after the first year

of just doing it in philly keith robinson grabbed me kurt metzger and kevin hart and started taking us up to new york and when i did that i started not being able to do all the bullshit with my friends that we were doing i I wasn't part of like Dollar Beer Night anymore you know what I mean? Uh huh. Or any of that shit. So they feel like

you kind of left them. And but when I would come back and be like hey guys I'm doing this cool thing like come check this out they'd be just very like eh I don't care.

You know and it's like oh no I'm going to go do this neat show in Atlantic City. Well isn't that the case always when life when you're growing up there's certain people

that you grow up with because they went to school with you and they were your friends. And some folks evolve and develop and change and grow. And some people stagnate and actually develop problems for themselves to distract themselves. Like, I grew up with some kids that were really good friends. And then they became, like, one of them became a pill head. Like, he's gone. Like, I don't talk to him anymore. If he called me, I wouldn't call him back. You know, he could probably get a hold of me head like he's gone like i don't talk to him anymore if he called me

i wouldn't call him back you know you could probably get a hold of me but i'm he's too fucked up he's too fucked up i know his family i know all the disasters he's been through just i'm not interested in communicating so there's going to be people like that in your life have you had circumstantial friendships in comedy do you know i mean like that just like four you're like you hung with someone for a little while and then you're like i guess it really like derosa did he lived with me for a while when he first moved to New York. When he moved out, and we were tight. We were together every day, you know?

Like we drove in together to the city and from Queens and hung out all the time. And I'd still describe me and Joe like friends. Like he's my buddy for sure, but I mean, I'm probably the 30th person he would call if he had good news in his life. Do you know what I mean? Right. I'd probably hear it third hand first. And we have no beef at all.

And when I see him, we love to catch up and bullshit and have a good time. But you know what I'm saying? It just turns out. So what's the issue? Just you need more from him? Yeah. I'm just saying I need more from him. I need him to call me too.

I think he's angry at my racisms also. Oh, that Anthony Cumia thing the other day was just so ridiculous. He did our show. I heard it. Of course. also oh that anthony kumia thing the other day was just so ridiculous he did our show and uh on the show he ran this long thing that was very jilted loverish in a lot of ways about kumia not calling i'm like why don't you just call him because i mean and also recognize that the guy's busy no he defended all these other people but he didn't defend me i'm like oh come on man because he didn't like talk about you online. You're upset at him. And then there was this accusations of racism

that they also didn't discuss. It was so... All of it could have been handled better. Did you watch him go on the Anthony show? Yeah, I listened to it. I mean, look... How'd that end? He should have never just written him off if a

guy's your friend and he's involved in some sort of a public crisis like anthony was you know first of all you have to recognize there's a tremendous amount of stress involved in any sort of physical altercation so don't expect people to behave rationally after someone punched him that's one and then two don't expect people to behave rationally after gigantic groups of people start calling you a racist and saying what you're doing by writing all this stuff. It's essentially a hate crime. You get fired from your job. People rally for you to get fired from your job. Other people rally for you to get rehired.

They want other people to boycott the show and cancel SiriusXM because of that. There was a lot of stress going on the idea that he's ignoring joe's tweets like fuck man like what do you what did what version of the thing did you see yeah joe made a little bit selfish sure yeah and i love joe he's a great guy yeah it's just like that's what makes joe a really funny comic is that he obsesses on things he thinks about things until he finds out what's really funny about them and he figures out a way to do it on stage and figures out a way to cut it down to like a really funny joke he's a great comic sure that same sort of curiosity sensibility obsession all those the combination of things mixed together in a stew you know sometimes i

could fuck with your personal life you know i think that's probably what would happen there you know that if if it was a more rational circumstance for Anthony, more rational response by Joe, I think they could have had a conversation about it and worked through. And I think they did, kind of. I just don't understand how Joe, in any way, shape, or form, had a feeling where it was like, this effect to him in some way. I don't know how people think, man. I got tweets that were like, cancel SiriusXM, stand by Ant.

And I just didn't. And not that I don't, I did Anthony Cumia's podcast after that and talked to him. I understand why he did what he did. I think he should have done it the way he did it. I think there's a better way to handle it. I think he does too, though. Of course he does. But I'm saying, but I just think like, I don't know, but it was just, I agree that Sirius fired him.

I wish he didn't get fired. I wouldn't have done it myself, but I'm not blown. When they said he's fired, I wasn't like, wait, what? I completely understand that they fired him. The shit that'll rain down on them, it wasn't worth it to them, so they fired him. Yeah, I understand it too. It's a business call. It is kind of a business call, but it's also a business call to not do it.

You have to decide what helps your business. Giving that guy an opportunity to express himself on the show would have generated a tremendous amount of ratings. Absolutely. And I think if he'd done it eloquently, which I'm sure he would have, there would have been a tremendous amount of support for keeping him on the show. I think that his argument and his assertion about the black community has always been there's a violence problem in the black community. It's not that he's racist against all black people. What his point has always been is that there's a lot of folks that are not willing to concede that there's a violence issue. And he thinks there is an issue.

Where he and I, I don't know what his take on the social ramifications or the reasons for this racial issue or this violence issue in the black community you know i think it's an economic thing and what i've always pointed to is the gypsies gypsies in uh in england and ireland you know who are constantly getting involved in crime and fighting and their bare knuckle wild motherfuckers and they're white you know it's the those type of people, people that live in these economically challenging situations where there's a lot of bad people around them and a lot of crime and violence. That's the atmosphere you live in. That's the soup you fucking were born into. And the shit's hard to deal with for everybody.

And I think that what he did is also it's a function of that form of media like doing things in 140 characters you can't express yourself very good in 140 characters and if you take even if you take something from something you said in this podcast and put it in 140 characters in quotes and put it on a tweet it can make it look like a real piece of shit you know well but what he did really was like he just tweeted out what he should have just said while he punched a piece of plywood. Or, no, he should have said it on the radio. No, no, absolutely. But by then, he could have gotten a way to say it eloquently.

I'm talking about in that moment of fury, you need to call a friend who's going to go, I know, dude, right? I know you're so right. And then 15 minutes later, when you calm down, you down you go of course i don't hate every black person like it's like he he vented and i said and he's such a guy who's used to preaching to the choir and he forgot that there's like regular people behind that choir that are gonna be like wait what's waiting to hear catch something like that it's way easier to take your tweet and retweet it than it is to say hey you got to listen to anthony on serious xm this morning when he was going off about how there's a violence problem in the black community and all the crazy shit that he screamed and yelled

about that's one thing but to someone to just take those tweets and retweet them or take them and cut and paste them and put them in a blog completely outside of the context of who you are what what your style of communicating with has always been on the show the style of communicating on the show has always been him screaming and he's always done that so when he does that in a twitter form it's par for the course i mean that's what he does it's just when he does it on the radio the people that are going to be upset at that they would have to listen to the whole thing to get to that they would have to listen to that chunk someone would have to alert them to it they'd have to like listen to it all play out all they have to do is just hear it, see it, retweet it.

See it, retweet it, see it on a blog, and then a bunch of fucking outrage attached to it and all these accusations. But what do you do at that point, in your opinion? Do you come out in high defense of yourself? Or do you just go, sit back and go, his resume kind of speaks for itself. You could just look at his body of work and know it's like he's clearly not a outwardly racist i mean like that well a

lot of people a lot of close people to his world are like a lot of people will disagree with you there a lot of people disagree with you that's a fact a lot of people will take a lot of the things that he said on you know the radio show cut him out of context and put it up and say that these are more pieces of evidence that he's racist. I don't think he's racist. I think he's frustrated. I think that he, like a lot of people that have been involved in these type of scenarios,

you only see the person's attacking you, and you only see the group that they're attached to. And if I lived in New York and I had to deal with a lot of bullshit on a regular basis, I don't know how much bullshit he deals with but whether it's bullshit coming from irish people whether it's bullshit coming from you know it's asian people that are fucking with me all the time i mean if you're living in a group where there's a certain number of people from x community that are causing a lot of crimes you're always going to have some frustration you're going to always going to be upset about that i don't know where his head's at. I've never had long, uncensored conversations with him about this.

I've talked to him on the radio, and I love talking to him. So if I had to guess, I would say no, I don't think he's racist. I think he's just not scared of speaking his mind about very controversial issues that very easily come across as racism when he's describing things like very real statistics like crime statistics like they're undeniable i mean if you look at crime statistics and sure the amount of uh young african-american men that are in jail it's fucking bananas it's bananas representative of the population as a whole like this small amount of people that are black and then the the large amount of black guys that are in jail you would go okay well is that evidence of racism that that's why they're being prosecuted or is it

evidence that they're committing far more crimes is it a combination of both is it a lack of social awareness that has allowed these inner cities to get completely out of hand these impoverished neighborhoods the yeah i think that but all the fear is just going to be that he was like you know some black bitch basically you know just to just be so dismissive that's no one's caring about the statistics he's throwing out they're only focusing but my point is you can get those facts out if it had been a bunch of irish people and he was like you know this this mick ginger fuck just punched me you know cunt just punched me in the face because he's white he could do it but he could do it and they would but but then his tweets would resonate more.

It wouldn't make any kind of news, but at least it would resonate more if he had some kind of facts and figures to support, you know, whatever, the Mick Gingerfuck violence problem. Joe, don't you find it interesting, though, that after all this recent shit about him being racist, that he doesn't just kind of back off and just for like a year talk about cupcakes or something like why would he he's actually pushing it? almost to the point of like Like he's really proving freedom of speech and and and and everything like that. He's almost trying to make a point about

You know, well, what do you what are the examples you're talking about? Well, like, you know after all this thing of him being racist on twitter then he started going off on ferguson you know all the ferguson stuff and then but what did you see when you talk about things like that like do you know specifically what he said about ferguson i mean i know i could pull it up i don't have that memory what we know is about what joe de rosa talked about the other day but he didn't cite any specifics either so i don't know what anthony said about ferguson if i, then I can comment on it specifically. Well, I mean, I follow him on Twitter,

and he's still doing silly things. What do you think about Ferguson? Yeah, you've got to give examples to make sense. I'll just start pulling stuff up. I didn't really want to go that deep into that point. What I'm saying is you can go on his Twitter and see what I'm talking about. He doesn't back off.

Well, he doesn't have to. Yeah, he doesn't back off for a reason, it seems like. I think most people, if you got that much, like, you lost your job, you got in trouble on Twitter about a certain subject, then I'm like, all right, I'm not going to talk about Pi for a while. Definitely. No, because he's got a new show. Yeah, and he immediately made, like, a chunk of money.

You know, it's like a Netflix subscription type thing. Yeah. So he immediately made, like like a gang of money off that i assume so i don't know i don't know how well he's doing but i i hope he does well i i thought that it'd be probably smarter if he did it through subscription that way more or through um through advertisers because if you get your advertisers that way you know he's going to get a large number of people that are going to listen to it because if it's free you know like but he's kind of like hamstringing himself

by making a subscription service. I think it's tough to make it cost money you're definitely cutting people out of it but I think there'll be an initial thing but you have to get people to latch on board. It's really hard to get people to pay for shit on the internet in this day and age. There's so much awesome stuff that's free.

Howard Stern gives you like basically you're paying for Sirius for like that or ONA and you can't argue that like Stern Channel that gives you like tons of energy, you know,

for what you're paying. Like he gives you a lot of different stuff. It's like him all day and other shows and his old content and just like fun productions and stuff.

Yeah, but that's not online. That's on Sirius. It's like if you subscribe to Sirius. Is that what you're saying? You can get that online too. Yeah,

but I'm saying for making people pay for something, but he did 20 some years of giving it you're saying? You can get that online, too. Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying, but I'm talking about for making people pay for something, but he did 20-some years of giving it for free, so now you can give people a pay-for. But we're talking about two different things. We're talking about satellite radio, or we're talking about internet subscription.

Does he have an internet subscription thing? Well, it's the same thing. I mean, it is. You could watch it online, Stern's thing. Well, sort of, but it's satellite radio. You're working for a company. I mean, it's not like what Anthony's doing. Anthony's doing a completely independent

internet subscription thing. I was confused. Oh, I'm saying, but now, but Howard went from being for free to ask for basically cost money to listen to him if you want to. I'm saying Opie going from like, you know, he did years of free,

and then years of, you know, he wasn't a specific charge for SiriusXM. Mean Anthony. Even though he was, yeah, he wasn't. But now, he's asking for a Netflix amount of money for one show. That's what I'm saying. There's no variety,

there's no like, he's not really giving you anything besides that two hour show. It's very different because first of all, Sirius is in so many cars when you buy it.

Sure. When you buy it, you get a 90 day subscription and it plays and you get to listen to Stern, you get addicted to it and listen to all the different music channels,

you get addicted to it. But you're paying for satellite radio. You're not paying for a specific show on the internet. There's a complete total difference in what you're getting. Like to get something on the internet is what I'm saying. It's very difficult to pay for, get people to pay for something that's on the internet. It's not difficult to get people to subscribe to satellite radio,

especially because satellite radio is in their car. But zillions of people like Netflix, and that's all internet-based. Yeah. But Netflix gives you thousands of options. That's the point I'm making. It's hard to get people to pay for, like, one two-hour show a day, four days a week. Well, Netflix is movies and television shows. I mean, if you're paying for Netflix, you're paying for something that you can watch on television.

I mean, I guess you could watch Anthony's show on TV, but that's not how most people are probably watching it. I bet the majority of people that listen to his show are getting it. Yeah, they're getting it as an audio thing that they listen to on the subway or something or in their car. That's what most people do with these things. It's hard to get people to pay for shit online. People are trying to do it like Drive Plus. Drive is a youtube

channel that i really love it's uh it's all about various sports cars and the inner workings of them and they do all these really cool in-depth pieces they just changed their format and it became drive plus and they made people subscribe to it and the very video they did it to the first one was one that i was a part of this shark works company that makes these cars and uh the comments were just filled with pissed off people people were so fucking mad i mean they were so mad that all of a sudden they were going to be forced to have to pay i forget what the amount of month is i don't think it was a lot like five bucks or something i don't remember though and uh people the entire comments for the video was all about people being angry that they had to pay for it

i wonder what hulu's thing was with their fall off or whatever when they went from hey have it all for free to like now we charge you yeah i don't know i bet they lost a lot of people i mean that's just what happens people don't want to pay for shit but netflix is so good there's so much stuff and they have their own independent programming like that house of cards show they're doing chelsea handler's going to do a show on it like they're they're actually becoming like a network so if you pay x amount a month for it the amount of content that they have access to is fucking incredible i like that plan too they just released the season as a whole right away yeah that really does make for like well there's also some weird shit that goes on with

them with like cable uh internet providers and different internet providers like now they're gonna have to pay more because they use up more like they have to cut deals otherwise they throttle back netflix users there's a lot of weird, shady shit when it comes to bandwidth and how much bandwidth is worth and how much bandwidth gets soaked up by different applications. What shitty Ben Affleck, Justin Timberlake movie are you going to make about that?

Guys fighting for bandwidth. The behind-the-scenes wars. Bandwidth wars. Yeah, it's tricky, man. If you're trying to sell shit online, unless you're a Netflixflix like if hbo became an online thing only even with all their awesome shows that they have that would be tough although that said the hipsters have dominated that world and a lot of them don't do cable at

all and just get like a subscription to hbo go and showtime.com and all that stuff and they watch all their shit like that. Well, there's a lot of people that do it through iTunes. You do like Apple. You get an Apple TV thing. Yeah, and get a subscription to all those things. It could probably cost you somewhere of like 50 bucks a month,

and you pretty much have access to everything like the next day. Pretty close. I mean, there's a lot of shit you could get. I mean, I use iTunes for, I use the Apple TV to watch that show the strain and i tried watching on regular tv oh my god the fucking commercials make you hemorrhage you can't believe how often the fucking commercials come on it's like a couple minutes in bam there's another

commercial and then a couple minutes after that bam there's another commercial like oh my god like they just assault you with commercials. I keep cable, DirecTV for a few. One, the football package is huge. But two, there's also something that makes me feel like an adult having cable. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're supposed to have cable. I don't know why, but it really does.

Just like I stop now, but for a long time, well beyond needing one. I always had a house phone, like a landline. I was like, you're supposed to have a landline, but it's just gone all. I bought a new cell phone now. Well, it's also like you don't ever want to have something that you can't just turn off. Yeah. The beautiful thing about a cell phone is you shut that bitch off and nobody can get in touch with you. Put it away, yeah.

Yeah. But yeah, a lot of people do that netflix thing now where they don't have cable they just have netflix and they use like their computer for shit and then hook up one of those uh i do it right now i just went and it's great because you could just target what you want instead of listening to background noise pretty much yeah it's probably smart keep you from watching as much stuff too you know you're not just flipping through the channels And then you watch it, you know, sometimes there's a search process

They're like what do I want to see here and you go on and sometimes I'll take a half an hour Just looking for a good movie to watch like it's just wasted half hour here But having cable like I'll never seek out the movie break-in ever again But I'll watch the last 45 minutes of it three times a week if it pops off Yeah, if I'm flipping through the channels and Roadhouse comes on, it's like two o'clock in the morning in a hotel room somewhere.

I'm going to watch that shit. It's like a gift of the universe. If you're alone in a hotel room flipping through the channels and Roadhouse comes on and you're on the road, you'll start laughing. You got to watch it.

You owe it to the Jeff Healy band to do it. I want you to be nice until it's time to not be nice. How I know when that is, I will tell you. My mom used to come home from work in the middle of the night and feed my little brother and we didn't have cable and we had a VCR and we had

Roadhouse and she would watch Roadhouse every night. My mother knows every line to Roadhouse. That's ridiculous. Yeah. It was a VHS? Miho. Yeah, VHS. Oh my god. I had that and Hard to Kill on the same tape, and we watched it constantly. You know what's amazing? If you go back in time to when those video stores were out, like the local video stores,

like every community had a local video store, like a mom and pop video store. And then the Blockbuster came in, and fucking, oh, my God, Blockbuster's going to shut down all these mom and pop video stores. In a lot of ways they did, except Blockbuster didn't have porn. That's what kept them alive, right? So if you wanted to get the porn, you'd have to go to the mom and pop video stores. If you came back to that day when those things were all everywhere, and you said, within a couple decades, these won't even exist anymore.

They're going to be gone. You're going to get everything out of the air. People will be like, what? Yeah, you're just going to press a button on a machine, and You're going to get everything out of the air. People will be like, what? Yeah, you're just going to press a button on a machine and you're going to get it out of the air.

Specifically for porn, what you had to go through too, like our franchise in Philly we had a place called West Coast Video and you know that at all and there's the red boxes. Everything was like

in a red box. There was no like, the covers were up on the wall but you got a red box and the beauty of that was I would try to just like find, like my mom and step-pop would rent porno movies when i was younger i guess for them for themselves and i would they'd leave in the vcr we only had one vcr so they i guess they'd watch it when i'd stay at my grandmom's and i'd come i'd see the title of it and i would

they'd always find titles that weren't very porn sounding and then i I would go, I'd stay at my grandma's the next night, and I would tell her, like, hey, if I reserve movies, go pick them up, and I would reserve. I'd send my little grandma in to go pick up porn movies for me. Oh, my God. She'd be like, you want me to make popcorn, and we'll watch it together? I'm like, ah, I'm going to probably watch it later.

Did she ever call you on it? No, but one time I never returned one, and they ended up calling. Oh, you tried to keep it i just tried to keep it was a terrible it wasn't even a porn it was one i rented it was like a like a skinamaxi type thing i had a friend that if the videos were really good he would not bring them back because he was like i'll take the penalty i need to keep this one horns oh i had a guy take me uh uh court that, for not returning.

Really? And then eventually, like, the only reason I got off the hook eventually is it was a mom and pop place and it went under. It was called Wow Video. There was a mom and pop place when I used to hang out at this pool hall in White Plains, New York. And there was a mom and pop place across the street that they found out had Tracy Lord videos that were illegal. Wow. And the guys at the pool hall found out about it. And so they took them all.

And they paid the penalty on all of them. They're like, these are valuable because she's underage. And I'm like, bro, that shit's illegal. Like, what the fuck are you doing? I mean, there is a value to it. She means she looked like she was of age. She had large breastises. And she was, you know, she looked like Oh, yeah. She was enjoying it sexually. She had those big banana tits, too.

Yeah, they were weird tits. But, beautiful girl. But anyway, she was fucking like 17 years old or 16 years old at the time when they were, when she was making these. Big muff. These guys found out about it. Yeah. Well, the whole deal.

She was a woman. Yeah. I mean, she looked like a woman. She's obviously a little girl, but if you looked at her like, what is that? You would say, well, that's a naked woman. Yeah. You woman yeah you know no no she's 16 you piece of shit what the fuck yeah how would i know you showed me her naked how much of documentaries like her boyfriends were like in their mid-20s early 30s and shit like none of them had any idea you mean the guys on the show or actual boyfriends like she had wore porn. I'm calling the porn video the show.

The guy in the show? She dated porn stars for a while. Oh, she dated them. Remember that guy Tom Byron? Uh-huh. Remember when there was only like four dude porn stars? Yeah, there was like Peter North, Tom Byron. He's always the first one because he shot the biggest loads.

Isn't it weirdly gay if that's the reason? It's gayer that he did gay porn. Did he before that? Yeah, he did gay porn. Oh, wasting those big loads on dude butts? I don't know about wasting them. He seemed to be enjoying it. And this is pre-Viagra.

So he was really getting hard for gay guys. He stayed in there, like, he stayed in the game a really long time simply because of those loads. They were ridiculous. The fact that I know what you're talking about. Like, if you brought it up about any other performer, you'd be like, I'm calling him a performer. What do you call them? What do you call a guy who fucks chicks?

Adult artists? Peter North? This powerhouse. What's everybody knew? Those were the things you knew. Ron Jeremy can count down from 10 and come, and Peter North shoots fucking face-covering loads. What do you mean everybody knows that i

didn't fucking know that you guys didn't know that you guys know that how do you know that all his points is what he would do he's like counting down from 10 or has the girl countdown and then when she says one he pulls out and blows a load on no kidding really yeah i had no idea i had no idea about that either yeah that's a weird thing to know why don't you guys take a little time to get to know the hedgehog watch it how have you watched? How many points have you watched? Oh, tons. I had a nice stack collection. Good collection.

Yeah, and all the tapes were red. They were always like shitty colors, too. Red videotapes. Yeah, right? The cheapest fucking stuff. I had a friend. The outside. I had a friend who had two VCRs.

Black dude named Frank. He would just make compilation of like his favorite. Cum shots? They were great to borrow. No, because whatever it was, it was like, fat-ass white bitches. And then it would just be like all... So he was like the first compilation guy. Yeah. Because they have compilations now that you can get online.

Way before the internet. But I think if I was a... I'd have a severe problem if I grew up with the internet. It was good that I had to really work to get my porn. You'd have a severe problem if I grew up with like the internet it was good that I was that I had to like really work to get my porn you'd have a severe problem if you had instant access absolutely and I see it so young

I think a lot of people do have a problem and I think it's as someone who has a daughter I fucking hate that you know facial cum shots is part of the common day

you know what I mean like that's what you do right out of the gate sexually now anal sex too right out of the gate sexually anal sex is a big issue no one a girl's like I'm and said i'm not going back that well i'm 36 years old but i

do remember in school like the girls who fucked it was kind of quiet uh and the ones who everybody knew fucked were kind of they were kind of shitty to them they kind of got like you know like oh she's a slut which was just all the guys wishing they were fucking you know wishing they were fucking her but still like vilify you know i think i think the internet's just like made that completely like 16 year old girls talking about who sucks dick better that's crazy yeah is that really what's going on are you there when this is happening or are you just hearing rumors no it's happening no no i'm sure i have uh siblings who are very younger than me because i have a stepfather so i have a sister who's still in high school oh so i mean like she's you know hopefully the best

of my knowledge not doing this stuff but they were doing a thing a few years ago where the uh the kids would wear the colors you snap off the color that means like you know finger your asshole in the locker room and then you go do it and the girls would always be like oh so unfair and walk with and they would just go do it because it was like always be like oh so unfair and walk with and they would just go do it because it was the rule a bracelet rule that they were doing mad if that was going on i was i don't know i would never be a comic that's for sure i would have got nothing done do you really believe that though yeah nah you would eventually become a comic you would just get bored of it maybe maybe but i mean i even now i had one point i lived with a guy who worked for

the cable company, so he got unblocked just the shitty Playboy channel. Like how benign the Playboy channel is. Right. And if I was playing Madden on the loading screens on PlayStation 2, I would constantly flip back. Back and forth to the Playboy channel? Just to see whatever it was, because there'd be a girl with her pussy out, and that would just for some reason, I'm like, I'm going to watch that for a minute,

and then go back to the loading screen they remember when they had fake porn they were like emmanuel series on like showtime you'd watch these weird movies it was like kind of it wasn't it was romance that wasn't designed for women it was like romance that was designed for like couples or men to watch so it eventually got to people having sex but all you really saw was like you saw breasts and you saw the man like fake humping the girl but you know you saw no penetration but you could tell like their organs were misplaced like their sexual organs were not lined up correctly like blowing him but she's like head butting him in the like the chest yeah and if he was

banging her like where's her pussy sitting there belly button it's weird some strange place none of it made any sense you know and but they were you know they would like fake moan uh uh and they were always on late at night they still have that crap man do they yeah i couldn't jerk off that now if i tried for a long there's no way i'm too far gone yeah you can't go back but you could if you were trapped, though. If you were in the Amazon jungle for six months, and then all of a sudden you got to a hotel room, like, oh my God, TV, and you flip through the channels,

and Carry On, Emmanuel was on, and it was a little shitty filter, because the cameras they used back then were dog shit. So there was no HD. It was really low resolution and kind of fuzzy. Oh, I used to be able to jerk off to like the girls gone wild like promo video on like e-channel at night but i mean it's just like it's just such a thing of the past i couldn't even everyone was like oh how could you do that why you couldn't get so excited to the uh the fappening thing all the celebrity nudes that came out is because still images i can't jerk off the still

images anymore yeah and the only thing that's hot about it well they're hot but it's just that they're famous like and you know them from something else that's always a weird thing about porn stars it's like it's you people used to have this idea at least that the really beautiful women weren't porn stars the really beautiful women were like cindy crawford or you know whoever fill in the blank farrah fawcett those are the really beautiful ones weren't porn stars. The really beautiful women were like Cindy Crawford or, you know, whoever. Fill in the blank. Farrah Fawcett. Those are the really beautiful ones.

And the porn stars were really a couple notches behind. But there's porn stars today that are fucking tens. They're unbelievably beautiful. Like, you look at them, you're like, that girl could be Lindsay Lohan. She could be a supermodel. She could be anything. And she's just getting plowed. Yeah. Slanging that good dick. You know talk about but that's but they've also like removed like the

Excitement of that's it's so out there like there's still something more exciting if you saw a girl that was hot at the gas station And somehow you were able to see her ten minutes later like do something where you open the door by accident She was naked. That's way more exciting. Do you know what I mean? I guess. Because you're seeing them, it's from a different context. Like, a porn star you know you're going to see. If that same porn star happened to be the star of a sitcom and you saw her naked, that would make that so much more exciting. But the fact that you know her from sucking dick, like, seeing her pussy isn't that exciting.

I get it. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Unless you weren't being inundated with porn. See, if you're being inundated with porn, I think that's the real issue, is you get numb to the porn. And then what the real excitement is, like, oh, I'm not supposed to be seeing this porn, so it makes it exciting. My favorite kind is the home video shit. If you weren't getting inundated with porn and then you saw some porn some naked sex you'd be like whoa this is great you'd get excited oh yeah numbness that's what it is yeah

well you also get like uh i think i also used to be able to jerk off in fucking three minutes now it's like a it's a whole process because you're like i could find a better video it's like a challenge to yourself and then the head shake you make it yourself when you're just jerking off to that third one You found like 40 minutes later. You're like come on man. I could have made phone calls I got emails to send a lot of shit done Yeah, and here I am right back at the same stupid Bachelorette party gangbang well, it's like those monkey tests They do with cocaine and heroin you give the monkeys heroin they take the heroin once a day, and they're straight

They give the monkeys coke and they just keep hitting that coke button until their fucking hearts explode. Yeah. You know? There's something about giving guys access to constant 24-hour porn. I mean, that's where all that gagging shit and gaping and fucking all the abuse porn. It's got to become violent. Well, it comes out of, like, what's next?

We've done all this. What's next? We're going all this. What's next? We're going to fucking pee in girls' butts. Okay. Okay. How about we pee in girls' butts and we attach a straw to that pee and we make them drink it out of their own butt? Fuck yeah.

That guy's in jail, I think. Yeah, he is in jail. He's out now. Is he? Did you ever see that documentary? Max Hardcore. Max Hardcore. Did you ever see that documentary called Hardcore where the girl comes over from England?

No. It'll make you like furious at that guy did you ever see it before i think i saw clips of it on efuck it's a it's a girl who comes from england you know porn producer is like your beautiful baby you're gonna just basically starts over you're just gonna do like pictures and lesbian porn uh-huh and then before you know it like they get to sets and it's like well i thought you said we're just gonna watch today it's like no baby come on like i told him you're doing this anal porn today she's like well i said no anal and he's like well it's more money if you do it and it's really watching him then break a girl down

till at one point uh max hardcore i believe it is getting ready to do something terrible to her and she finally like after crying he she said she didn't want to do it the first thing he does is he walks into a room when she's going to meet Max Hardcore for the first time. A bunch of people in this room and the documentary crew. He walks in. He shakes everyone's hand and goes over to her. It seems very real. Pulls her panties down and stuffs his dick in her asshole.

And she makes a face like it's pretty real. And she gets weeded out. And then he goes, let's go upstairs. And he starts talking her into a scene. She says she doesn't want to do it. First thing he tries to do is hit hit her with the baby you're beautiful like you're gonna make a lot of money this is a great thing people want to see your beautiful body he does that for about five minutes and then he kicks right into you stupid bitch yeah whatever go back to england tell your kid you can't take care of her and you fucking okay

waste my fucking time and then she agrees to do it and the documentary guys step in and they turn the camera off and just says like at this point we thought she wasn't responsible for herself anymore they pulled her out of it okay is this a hundred percent confirmed did you sure that this wasn't in any way set up that that's why you know like there's a lot of these porn scenarios where they do like casting couches no no no really are this is a documentary couches no i know that there's other ones that they do where it's totally rigged yeah i think most of them are always rigged this is not this is a full-length like two-hour documentary it's about this girl that was just one scene right but they showed him fucking her in the ass she doesn't she's not opposed to that okay but like she goes yes yes they say well they don't show like his

dick going in because it's just not the way it's a documentary guy. So it's like if it happened in the corner over there. So they're not showing the actual sex. Yes, they show. They just don't show the penetration. But you see him put his dick around and her make a face and get weird about it. I don't know if that's a setup. You know what I'm saying?

Do you know that that's not a setup? Obviously, I can't confirm it to 100%. But she goes through a weird thing in this documentary. This sounds like a real documentary. I mean, if it was a porn documentary, they would show real porn. Yeah, no, they don't show... There's no penetration. That doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

That's not necessarily true. I mean, I don't know. I see what you're saying. It sounds like it could be real, but it also could be something that they set up. I don't know. Of course. Anything could be. Yeah, I mean, it's that same world. You know what I i'm saying that world of the fake auditions that turn but this isn't this

isn't uh this isn't a jerk offable thing in any way this whole thing is terribly like what the fuck is this guy doing this girl's like is he really doing that it's it's not a oh okay it's not it's not there's no fancy set around like you see the documentary guys like like even like the you know the guys talking to each other. Is this like, should we do something? So he's just an evil guy that's out of control, abusing the shit out of chicks and putting it on video. I've heard him on Howard Stern. He seems like a pretty horrible dude, but I'm speaking a little out of school.

He seemed like a horrible dude. Yeah, this is a real documentary. Hold on a second. Would you hear that it seemed like he was a horrible dude? It was on Howard Stern. It's the way he talked. They had girls come in that wanted to be porn stars. And he's just a mean.

He's like, well, you're a little fat, but I can work with that. You know, you write pig on your face. And he's just kind of like a gruff, like shitty guy. Maybe it's a character. For all I know. Yeah, I don't know. But I heard, yeah. But why be the villain?

I mean, the guy did go to jail. But again, I don't even know what that was for. So I shouldn't make the next situation. Well, I'll tell you exactly what it was for. He went to jail for obscenity. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Obscenity laws.

It's a very scary thing. Look, I don't think that what he... See, it's a tricky situation because I think anybody with any ethics or morals that looks at that guy and the kind of videos he did, you don't want to be attached to that. It's disgusting. I mean, even if it is fake, it's's still like man what why does this get you off like you're just yeah you're being fucking horrible to these people if that's really what gets you off like what kind of a human being are you and what what kind of a what kind of a product are you selling but the way they got him is there

are certain places that have like really strict obscenity laws and so they prosecuted him in florida in this one area that had these like really brutally strict obscenity laws. And so they prosecuted him in Florida, in this one area that had these really brutally strict obscenity laws. So they went after this guy. They targeted him. I think they saw the videos and they decided this is a piece of shit. And we need to put this guy in jail. In their eyes, the prosecutor's eyes, I think, if I had to guess, that they found a guy who had made this sort of evil business off of a loophole.

And that loophole was the freedom of expression. Sure. That he's allowed to have his own artistic interpretation of what's porn and what's not porn. But to anybody like you that's a normal guy who watches it, you're like, this guy's a piece of shit. Like, he's making movies for fucking evil people. Yeah, to want to get off to that is a very bizarre thing to me it is it's definitely very bizarre but it's also like at what point in time is it censorship at what point in time is like who's to say that you can't i mean if you made a movie okay this is a totally

unrelated thing but if you made a movie uh about a guy who was a horrible serial killer right and he's very sadistic and it's part of the entertainment is this guy's very sadistic And then as long as someone catches that guy and kills him most of us are like wow That was a fucked up movie, but they got him in the end Yeah The problem with this is nobody gets it in the end except the girl girl gets it in the end Yeah, I mean like the girl gets abused and it's about abuse and that's it there's no narrative there's no like story arch arc where someone comes along and they fucking find this guy and they lock him up in jail at

the end and everybody feels safe no it's just awful from the beginning to the end it's awful and then it ends there's no plot it's just him him violating somebody yeah and this and it's but i mean it rolls on without him though i, there's like a thousand max hardcores I'm sure right those guys they'll put on a on e fucked. I've seen them do those The compilations of like just not even the sex part just the guys being mean to the chick It's like they bring in like awful like unattractive women and they shit on them and then fuck them. It's very weird Yeah, they smack them. There's where they sign up for that news It's like physical abuse

that would be illegal and you would actually go to jail for like you can't smack a chick in the face but like yeah you can't you can't even sign a waiver to say that's okay i guess like you sort of can i mean like wrestling right uh but it's isn't it different if it's a guy smacking a woman i mean let's be honest isn't it i'm morally if a guy's not a wrestling if they're doing a pro wrestling match and a guy smacks a guy these guys are they're agreeing to this they're both guys if two girls are doing it they're both girls but if a guy does it to a girl but i mean there's been there has to have been pro wrestling storylines where the guy accidentally swings and smacks the girls like that's part of the storyline i mean i mean i just watched the other day uh triple h uh put stephanie mcmahon

in the pedigree well in movies for sure there's been domestic violence in movies without a doubt but they're not really no no but they're not really hitting that's the actual contact no but in pro wrestling there is contact yes that's the difference in pro wrestling they're actually hitting so if you've there... There's absolutely TV shows and movies that they hit each other in. No. You see a woman hit a man,

you never see a man actually hit a woman in a movie, not a recent movie. Well, I bet you there is in the last year. Some show that has a man hit a woman

and it's a real hit. No, they can make it... No. Jersey Shore had that happen, but that wasn't set up. You can make it look like it's a real hit. Jersey Shore. You can make it look like jersey sure that happened but that wasn't set up you can make it look like it's a real hit you could make it look like it but i've never seen i've never seen a woman cough a man or a man cough a woman in the face where i thought it was real that jersey

sure that snooki got punched in the face by a dude yeah that was real 100 that was 100 i got jawed her she got blasted so that's the type of thing you can't fake. I mean, she just got popped. That guy was a fucking savage. That guy was a school teacher. Teacher, I know. And an MMA fighter. Was he really?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he just uncorked on her face. I guess MMA's been around long enough now, there's just finally some guys coming out and disgracing the sport a little bit. There's always going to be crazy people in everything. Soccer players, fucking whatever. Competition, aggressive types.

Polo athletes. Yeah, there's people that are nuts. You're going to run into people. I mean, the most unlikely scenario, if it's a competition, you're going to run into. Even if it's not a competition, there's probably asshole dentists that will punch you in the face if they're doing shots. And then sometimes it works out. Those MMA guys, it works out great. Remember that?

Was that a WorldStarHipHop video? Was it down in D.C.? Kind of an unassuming white dude. Oh, Ryan Hall. Dropped a big black guy, right? And the guy gave up eventually. Yeah, and then it shows him partying with the black dudes later. Yeah.

Yeah, he mounted him. He didn't even kick his ass. Just held him down and just out grappled him. Just let him know. Yeah, let him know that it's going to get worse. That's so awesome. Yeah, well, especially if you haven't grappled,. Just let him know. Yeah, let him know that it's going to get worse. That's so awesome. Yeah, well, especially if you haven't grappled before, you get tired so quick. You're like, okay, okay, get off me.

Like, you don't have enough energy left to attack him. Like, there's nothing left. I love bullies getting knocked out video. I do love those. Those make me happy. It's nice when you see that. As comics, I think, where you said the thing about punching up earlier, it really is like we do seek justice to some degree.

For sure. I just have a problem with the statement that all good comedy is punching up. That's just not true. It's not. There's a lot of good comedy that's punching sideways. There's a lot of good comedy that's punching down. But there's no, but Louis C.K. shitting on his daughter. There's no lack of justice there.

Do you know what I mean? In that regard, because you said you kind of know. Not only is it implied, it's very obvious he, lack of justice there. Do you know what I mean? In that regard, because you said you kind of know. Right. Not only is it implied, it's very obvious he's kidding. He loves his kid. Nobody makes an outward, uh, and it's funny, no one does make an outward thing about that. The fights people choose to pick, when I did a interestingly enough with the

daughter thing, when I did Fallon, I talked shit about my daughter for the first two minutes of it. And then I did Michael Vick jokes. And thousands of hate mails the next day poured in over these Michael Vick jokes. Over imaginary dogs. I say that he was on my team. So I have to love him because he's on my team at the time.

He's on the Eagles still. And I say, I go, you know, I know he's a terrible dude and did some terrible things. But while he's on my team, just win. Like, I'll throw him a dog, let him tear it apart like a werewolf in the end zone if he scores. And I said I'd mail him a box of puppies with a photograph of me shushing if he wins the Super Bowl. And it killed in the room. And it did great. But then all the hate mail came in for that.

And it was such a weird thing. It was like not one person was like, how do you shit talk your daughter like that, you know? Right. You're telling a joke about shitting on her Father's Day present or something she got for you. It's like, no one cares. But there was petitions online for a public apology from me for imaginary dogs, dogs that don't exist. Well, once things happen, people get excited and they want action. They want you to apologize.

And if they can force you into action, they've won some sort of an online contest. They've decided. They've written a blog about it they've started a hashtag make jay ogerson hashtag make jay apologize yeah it's so it's so bizarre to get that wound up about comedy ever i don't care about everything man i mean every youtube video that comes out is a thousand comments people are duking it out in the comments section and people get fired up about almost everything and anything. And if they have the license to be offended, if people have the license to be offended, like they

can think that what you said is not funny. They can think that what you said is cruel, but this license to be offended. I don't want him ever on my show again. This is my show. I like this show. Aren't you blown away though how offended people get? I feel like comedy should be void of that. Of course.

Yeah, but it's... Sometimes I feel like we're treated like we're speaking to fucking Congress. Yeah, we're given affidavits in court. There's a laughing microphone behind me on a sign. You know, like, what are you... Well, you see it. You see what's going on. People are just getting attention.

I mean, if you talk about it and you engage them and they get to be upset about you and find other folks that are upset about it as well, everybody gets to be, to have a little bit of attention about it. That's why,

and you know, it's obviously one of the most famous moments in the show, but that's why I was always, I was very tight with Kilstein, like Jamie Kilstein

at one point and like as a comic coming out against comedy that blew my mind so much when that happened. Yeah, the thing about Tosh. I still will once in once in a while yeah i will still once in a while go back and watch that whole thing because i i'm trying to get where he was coming from with that where he's coming from is a very rigid ideology there's a very rigid ideology of you know what

with the the down the people that are talking down on it would call the social justice warriors they talk about in a mocking sense social call them the social justice warriors. They talk about it in a mocking sense, social justice warriors. But social justice warriors, the idea behind the super male feminists, very liberal, a lot of them vegan, this whole idea of do the least amount of harm possible. They have a very rigid ideology when it comes to certain things. They don't leave any room for certain things to be discussed in a mocking manner you know and i think that you get stuck in that world if you're in that world like they have very rigid rules they don't think you should ever say a joke about rape was really fucked up as jamie had one about rape it was about men getting raped and it was okay

it's like you can't you can you just can't have any mocking jokes about any woman getting raped and it was okay it's like you can't you can you just can't have any mocking jokes about any woman getting raped even if the daniel tosh situation was like such an obvious line the you know she yells out during his if no one knows the scenario tosh was on stage and he was asking the audience what they wanted to talk about because like occasionally someone will yell out a subject and it'd be pretty funny you know and then you may may be able to come up with a bit from it who knows he's just having a good time with the crowd being loose ad-libbing some guy yells talk about rape and he goes and he starts listing off all the things that's not funny about rape like what are you talking about what's what is it the the humiliation the physical violence like what part do you think is funny and

this woman like self-righteously yells out actually there's nothing funny about rape as if he didn't know that as if he wasn't saying that exact same thing and he goes wouldn't be funny if five guys raped her right now like and then everybody starts howling laughing why because it's a funny thing to say in that moment sure and to argue against that as saying like that promotes a culture that accepts rape is completely ridiculous what it promotes is is rallying against people that are stating the obvious they're stating the obvious to take a moral high ground actually there's nothing funny about rape like he was saying that very thing with humor that there is nothing funny about rape when she chimed in it's a person that wanted attention that's the same person that wrote that blog she wrote a blog about it that very person was like the nightmare person to say that too

because she went and she wrote this blog and then he wound up giving this like fake apology which is pretty hilarious did you yeah did you see uh what law and order svu did with that story what they made that into they did really oh yeah? Oh, yeah. You know, they do the pull from the headlines, so they had the guy, first of all, they referred to him as like, they're like,

where are you going? Like, we're going up to the college campus to watch that, that new rape comic is in town. They call him a rape comic. No!

It's Jonathan Silverman, plays him. That's hilarious. He goes, the new rape comic in town. So he goes up there and his jokes are all about, you know, like,

fucking chicks against their will to some degree. Oh my God! But everyone loves him. He's getting huge applause and cheers. Oh my god. That's so ridiculous. What's funny about that is that one scene after they

suspect he goes on trial because a girl almost got raped after his show. A girl was a fan of his and they try to make the argument that these guys wouldn't have tried to rape her if they weren't all goosed up from his comedy show. And that was the actual argument. And what they ended up doing with the story was, first thing they do that made me laugh

was the whole SVU team goes and sits front row at his comedy show, is what they do first, and they're just sitting there staring and shaking their heads, and you almost want to go, you guys are actually being a pretty shitty audience. At the end of the day, it's like, if you're going to sit there and stare, at least sit in the back. That seems like kind of a weird, you're making the show get weird and rapey by staring, staring at him. But then what they do, the big payoff is at the end of the whole episode, they make that he was also a rapist. I actually tweeted out, I was like, was like pretty fucking irresponsible like that's a really irresponsible thing that for the first show i got to do you would think that it by the way the

kind of people that actually would be rapists they would be talking about how rape is awful because they would probably probably be trying to throw people off the face they wouldn't be like raping all the time and then joking about raping all the time like that sounds like the exact opposite of what you would do if you were trying not to get busted being a fucking rapist crack joke what you were trying to loosen people's expectations remember there was a comedian rapist remember that oh yeah that would backtrack his schools he would go to uh colleges and he would rape girls at colleges and he would ask them to pray for him really vince champ yeah but didn't he do a thing didn't he go vince champ but didn't he do he would go like those block bookings like he would ask them to pray for him. Really? Vince Champ. Yeah, but didn't he do a thing?

Was his name Vince Champ? But didn't he do, he would go like those block bookings? Like he would go do one school, pick out the chick, go to the next school, and then double back. So I think he pulled it off for a while. I didn't know he had a strategy. Did he have a strategy? From what I understand.

I could be wrong about that, obviously. Yeah. I've heard that from several sources. It was like a doubling back thing he won star search in 1992 and he's serving a 55 to 70 year sentence for rapes he committed at college campuses on his stand-up circuit how many did they say how many rapes there's a bunch i don't know man the uh story i'm looking for has been removed from the internet how many rapes were there well there were so many rapes in the late 90s so many rapes. It was in the late 90s. Bucket of rapes. It was in the late 90s.

Yeah. I don't know how many girls he raped, but he would have asked them to pray for him, which is really fucked. Rape's the last thing a chick wants to hear while you're raping them. Even you feel bad about the rape. I think rape, there always has to be, like, it seems to me like there's got to be a shut up or I'll do this element to it. Because I feel like you just couldn't. It's like professional wrestling, like how you couldn't suplex somebody, like a vertical suplex that doesn't want to be suplexed. Like you couldn't possibly do it to someone.

I feel like, how could you fuck someone who's really snapping their legs shut and fighting? It almost seems like it's an impossible task. Are you serious? Physically? For real? Yeah. I mean, it's something. It happens all the time.

Obviously, it can happen. No, but Sam, I think there's always an element. I think eventually the girl kind of has to do some kind of like, just get this fucking over. If you physically fight the entire time, I feel like you almost couldn't pull it off. I don't know, man. I think a guy could probably pull it off. I think they do. I don't even know what you're saying. Guys definitely rape. No, man. I think a guy could probably pull it off. I think they do. I don't even know what you're saying.

Like, guys definitely rape. No, no. And girls fight to the death. Jesus Christ. Did it make it sound like I say guys don't rape? No, no, no. Guys rape. But girls fight them off, and they still rape them. That shit happens all the time.

I think men are just bigger. You know, big, strong men and small women, it's probably, they hold you down. The liquid thing, too. It seems pretty obvious. I think, though, if you just spit on her. You mean booze? Is that what you're saying? No, I mean, like, she's probably, they hold you down. The liquid thing, too. It seems pretty obvious. I think, though, if you just spit on her. You mean booze? Is that what you're saying? No, I mean, like, if you, like, she's not going to be wet, you know?

Well, I'm not even talking about that. I'm talking just about the evidence of someone, like, nonstop, like, physically flailing around, like, to completely subdue someone's, have you ever just, like, playfully wrestled with a girl? Like, with your girlfriend or something? It was like, my chick, if I try to hold her arms and I tickle her and she's flailing, I don't think I can control her fully. She's not a big girl at all.

I control my girl. She can't move. Brian kicks ass on bullies, controls his girl. He's a fucking savage. Dude, you can stop a rape and rape. Don't even,

forget all personal appearances. Put that aside. He's a savage. Jesus Christ. I can control my girl. Yeah, you could... Look, man. If you know how to wrestle, you could hold a chick down pretty goddamn easy.

It's not hard. You could hold a dude down. But you have to hold her down and accomplish something that's sort of intricate to some degree. I don't know. I don't know. This is a weird thing to speculate. Let's break it down. How would you do it, Brian?

Let's take it around the horn. It'd be jiu-jitsu-y. Yeah. First of all, I'd do a classroom judo throw then. Jiu-jitsu and spit. I think that it'd probably be, like, especially if there's a lot of violence involved, right? Like hitting, choking. I don't think it would be hard.

a lot of violence involved, right? Like hitting, choking. I don't think it would be hard. I mean, it would obviously, it wouldn't be as easy as like, normal sex. No, I'm almost making the point. I'm saying by the time actually the sex part happens, I feel like there's just a give up to some degree.

Man. Yeah, I guess. You can see me appearing at the Tomahawk University announced my college tour. It's called the Don't Worry, I Don't Believe I Could Possibly Rape You Tour. Hey, everybody has their own confidence level. What they can put off. What they can pull off and can't pull off in this life.

If you feel like you're limited in that regard. I can never dunk a basketball, and I can never rape. Those are the two things I physically can't pull off. It is a fucked up thing, man, that's so common in the animal community, like violence and sex. I was watching this documentary, or I was listening to this podcast, rather, about Tasmanian devils and how vicious Tasmanian devils are with each other that while they're having sex,

like they almost, they always bite each other. They're constantly biting each other and they fuck each other's faces up. Like when they have sex and they fuck each other's faces up when they're fighting over a meal, they're constantly going at it. But there was a disease that was spreading amongst them. That was actually a type of cancer.

And the type of cancer was actually proving to be, um, cancer and the type of cancer was actually proving to be um something that's contagious by some strange manner of evolution these cancerous cells would burst and infect the cells around them and so they all these uh tasmanian devils started dying off because they started developing these cancerous contagious tumors and they were constantly biting each other in the face so they would be biting into these tumors, and the tumors would literally make tumors on the other animals. Jesus.

Yeah, but just constantly attacking and fucking mangling each other. That's what they did. They were just constantly biting when they fucked. And they make these crazy noises, man. This guy who is a uh you ever listen to radio lab you know what i'm talking about yeah amazing podcast it's an amazing podcast and the podcast is all um you know it's all like really interesting things that are like one of them they had about uh the problems with trying to communicate with dolphins and just really fascinating

fascinating stuff one of them was on the apocalypse like how uh what the asteroid impact did and how many animals were killed off and what the original humans probably looked like the thing that became a human that was alive back then this fucking burrowing underground mammal rodent type thing but um they were doing this this radio lab one on these tasmanian devils and this cancer that was spreading it was fucking madness man i don't like to dig into stuff like that too much if it gives me a genuine anxiety especially apocalypse stuff yeah like you know it's like oh it was always just a chance of you know a meteor the size of texas could destroy the earth which is weird that that became like a thing with these animals that they would bite and fuck while they're

biting they're biting each other in the face and and that's not a discussion that's just nature just what's the nature of it yeah it's not like constantly do it apparently they just bite they're just always fighting over meat and fucking biting each other in the face and praying mantis fucks and kills like immediately so yeah same you know it's like so does black? Yep. That's real common in the insect community. I saw an ant once, this weird fucking ant that takes, they're almost all females and there's occasionally males. And when they find a male, they bite his legs off. They bite his legs off and the male's like slightly larger. They bite his legs off and then they carry him into the hive to breed and then they wind

up killing him. They make him write a book. They just cripple him into the hive to breed, and then they wind up killing him. They make him write a book. They just cripple him. He has wings, I think, too. Isn't that the story of misery? You make him write a book with your favorite character. Yeah, we got it so weak. We're such pussies.

We have a conversation about how difficult it would be to rape somebody, and it's dangerous, subject to tread. You look into the nature world. It's like sex without rape. They're like, what are you talking about? It doesn even happen i wanted i take it yeah there's that's how you make sure that the genes are fucking well yeah and the the lion has to get through all the male lions he has to prove his worth and then eventually he's going to get pushed out by some new young lions you know because he wants to keep like a few chicks around and some new young lions are

going and then he's going to be out there on his own. They say that's, like, the biggest problem in Africa. It's like a metaphor for SNL. The new lion comes in. The old one gets sent out to pasture. I never watched that show. But, like, with African villages, the real problem that they have is when a lion gets cast out and the females don't get their

food anymore then the lions have to go get their own food and a lot of those old males they start to get crippled and slow and the chip teeth off and shit then they become super dangerous because they can't get the the normal game animals they're used to getting so then they start snatching people just oh yeah they keep proving themselves well there was a leopard there was a story about a it was in the news yesterday About a leopard in India that they think is responsible one individual leopard responsible for 15 deaths 15 different people that it targets drunk people and That it waits. Yeah, how fucked is that?

Really? Yes Leopard wakes a spot. Yeah. Well people, you know, they go out and they start partying, and this leopard has apparently developed this taste for drunk people. Like, he knows that when people come out of these bars, they're slow and they don't know what the fuck's going on. They're not on their, they're not on the ball, and they get jacked. It's almost weird to walk out of anywhere in the world of a bar and there's a leopard waiting for you.

Even in India? India's scary with leopards. In fact, in India, I find it more weird if there's a bar than a leopard waiting for you even in india india is scary with in fact in india i find it more weird there's a bar than a leopard waiting to kill you i feel like the bum like there's bars in india well you know what's interesting like india everybody always thinks of as being like this place of peaceful meditation and yoga right i mean that's a lot of people think of desert but you you hear about all these goddamn gang rapes like india has these horrible stories of people getting like gang raped on buses and women dying like don't you hear about all these goddamn gang rapes. Like India has these horrible stories of people getting gang raped on buses and women dying. Don't you hear about those quite a bit? Sure, yeah.

I wouldn't have normally associated that with India. We don't think of that. But it's like when you have a billion people, you've got a lot of crazy shit going on. You've got a billion people stuffed onto a continent. Can you imagine? I mean the young people anywhere are picking up on especially with internet and everything picking up on like the culture of all that stuff so if you go to south africa they're street gangs you know and they think they're bloods and crips because that's what they see really sure yeah i mean it's not

i don't think they're directly affiliated but there's like there's street gangs you know like that kind of thing in south africa it's a weird place like that do you remember when there was a ice cube song about um moving the crips and the bloods to the midwest no what was the song yeah steady mobbing i think it was road trip it was yeah it was it was something like that where these uh these gang bangers it got too hot in la so they set up gang affiliates in the middle of the country. Oh, those are, those like Southern ones, like those documentaries HBO would do about the white boy gangs. Like just a bunch of dudes wearing like bandanas over their face

and carrying hay sickles. What a terrifying thing coming your way. It's like the children of the corn with do rags on. What was that show? It was like banging in the suburbs. Banging Little Rock. Banging Little Rock. That's right. That's what it was, yeah. Wow in little rock that's right yeah wow that's like white trash guys like get him gary that scared a lot of people oh yeah banging in little rock type shit it scares a lot of people the idea that this gang violence

that you see in like inglewood and compton on the television shows that that's somehow another boys in the hood shit could somehow make it yeah and it's like terrifying especially when you see in the south it's weird because it looks it's already kind of a scary area of like swampy overgrown hedges and stuff and there's like yeah there's like a dude with an uzi wearing a red flannel and swampy louisiana weather and if you yeah fuck but if you're scared of it you're racist just don't hit back you know i tell you what i've talked about some shit on this podcast and gotten you know a lot of people's reactions about it but one of the biggest reactions i ever got about anything i said was that i was talking about john jones and i said i wonder how much of like why he's not popular is racism i wonder if people are racist you even say you wonder that someone might be racist like

if someone's reaction is something it's probably like flipping of me to say like that's like especially when you're not considering it before you're saying it you're just discussing a subject because you think it's interesting it's a such a charged subject you got to have like a fully formed idea before you say it but just the mere possibility that some people could be racist was like such a like people are so angry like not even saying you're racist not saying the only way that you couldn't like the guy was because of racism i said i wonder how much of it is racism i wonder if it's a factor because i always wonder about racism i think he gives reasons beyond that i think it's a fair question i mean he gives reasons to dislike him he's on race but you know

at the same time, why? Yeah, some people will just, is it ridiculous the notion that people will just blindly, like, think, just, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. We're leaving a world of apologies. Don't apologize for asking. Well, it's just such a highly charged subject. It's a fascinating thing that it's so highly charged that, you know, even a mere suggestion. thing that it's so highly charged that you know even a mere suggestion and if if people thought in some way that i meant if you don't like them it's because you're racist then that's my shitty

job of communicating an idea because that certainly was never what i was thinking but what i was thinking was i think i know for a fact when i was a kid i used to root for white guys i just did like when jerry cooney fought Larry Holmes, I remember very clearly being embarrassed that I rooted for Jerry Cooney because he was a white guy. Because I remember Larry Holmes boxed the shit out of him.

And he just picked him apart. And before that, I mean, Jerry Cooney was a really good fighter. He beat Ken Norton. He knocked him out. Devastating knockout. It was like, he was a good fighter. But Larry Holmes was was a master at the time and it was just i should have

been appreciating what larry holmes was able to do to this guy who'd been able to knock out some really good fighters that larry holmes was just using his skill and then it was a me but i had been rooting for jerry cooney so when he lost i was like damn but was it because he was but might have been because he was the underdog too no i was a kid i was dumb i know i was rooting for Jerry Cooney so when he lost I was like damn but was it because it was but might have been because he was the underdog too no I was a kid I was dumb I know I was rooting for because he was white I know I was I was probably like I was a senior or a junior maybe a junior in high school so I guess I was like 16 and uh yeah I was just dumb I mean it wasn't that I was racist but how dumb you could have been going what you would like what you attached to the most like what you related to the most most certainly I could be that guy yeah most certainly most certainly

yeah but um i did it a little bit when i was 20 not but not nearly as enthusiastically with tommy morrison screaming i love you white boxer no with tommy morrison i was like i just you know i was keeping an eye on him. How'd you feel after Ray Mercer? How'd you feel after that? That was the worst knockout I've ever seen in my life. That knockout was so good that my friend Kevin, who was a huge fan of Tommy Morrison, he wasn't even bummed out.

He's like, damn, that dude's awesome. Just saying that Ray Mercer was so awesome. Even though he was rooting for Tommy Morrison, it was such a brutal knockout that he just wanted to see Ray Mercer fight again. It was so good. Cut to Ray Mercer whispering in a guy's ear a few years later, like, please take a dive. I'll give you half the money. Who did he say that to? I forget, but it was like a court TV case.

Oh, that's right. Oh, my God. When they were in the clinch, he goes, take a dive. I'll give you half the money. Who was that? Was it Bobby Chez? No. Who was it that he had a fight with?

He had a fight with someone, and it was important. If he lost the fight, he was not going to get a title shot. Yeah. That's right, or allegedly. I don't know if that's true. Have they ever been proven? Was it ever proven? You can look it up.

I think he may have been found guilty of that. Maybe. I don't know. Did you ever watch that documentary, speaking of boxing, about the guy? What was his name, where they made inside of his gloves? Billy Resto. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. They fucked Billy Collins Jr. He claims he didn't know. Yeah, that was Panama Lewis. That was the same guy who doctored up Aaron Pryor's drink. He said, don't give me that water. Give me the other one, the one that I fixed. And then he gives it to Aaron Pryor, and Aaron Pryor

goes out there like a fucking bat out of hell and knocks out Alexis Arguello in the next round. And they said it was some sort of a stimulant. Aaron Pryor wound up having a bit of a drug problem. So it could have been related in that way. But it's just weird how the

fucking ferocity of the reactions when I brought up this racism thing. Maybe it was like irresponsible on my part, but I'm sort of happy that I brought it up anyway just because I'm fascinated by the response. And I'm fascinated by no black people disagreed with me. That's the weird thing. The weird thing is the guys who disagree, I mean, I don't know everybody who disagreed with me on Twitter, so I'm kind of talking out of my ass here. I don't know everybody who disagreed with me on Twitter, so I'm kind of talking out of my ass here. But the people that I interact with on a regular basis, whether it's comics or whatever,

the black guys all thought it was very valid. That there's a certain amount of extra judgment that you give a cocky young black athlete. And I was like, that's fascinating. I wonder if that's true. Even just paying attention to that, that's something I wonder. You know, I wonder what of a factor it is. And it's not the only factor. Look, there's 350 million people in this country.

And if a million people like you and a million people hate you, this is a fucking wide variety of reasons. But to say that out of all the millions of people who know you are, that there aren't a certain percentage of them that are racist seems disingenuous. I mean, it seems like there's a certain amount of people across the board that are going to be racist. If you have 350 million people, I don't know how many people you're going to get that are racist, but there's got to be a certain percentage that has to be factored in there. So, you know, saying you wonder how much of it is. Yeah. I think the interesting thing is that I think

Floyd Mayweather, people that hate him, I bet there's a lot more racism involved in that than Jon Jones. Jon Jones gives you pretty valid reasons to be like,

this guy's sort of a dick. Just publicly, from what you see, you know, I don't know anything of him other than what I see in the press and on the shows.

But I mean, like, Mayweather's a guy, you know, you see he's like, you know, the press is talking to him, he's like throwing $100 bills on the ground. You know, he like, Mayweather's a guy, you know, you see he's like, you know, the press is talking to him, he's like throwing $100 bills on the ground,

you know, he's just like, he's a master showman in that regard too, though. But that personality feeds into someone who's got racism in their heart, that's really, that fires them up.

Well, I've read some horrific shit about, well, I've read some racist shit about both guys, about John Jones and about Floyd Mayweather. But this recent, a barrage of shit about people, like how much hate they have for him after he fought Maidana and lost. I don't know if they were betting on Maidana.

I don't know what it is. But that's also how he sells tickets. I mean, he sells tickets by people wanting him to lose. But he's so fucking good. You could barely hit him. If he gets tagged once or twice hard in a fight it's shocking and rare but there's a lot of fights where he'll go like the entire fight just boxing someone's face off and not get hit at all so for every sugar shay mosley who

connects or every my donna right hand that lands there's like a lot of rounds where he's not even getting hit he's just slipping out of things and moving and doing things to you that you didn't expect and moving in a way that you didn't anticipate and being nowhere near you when you're looking to hit him. You know, he's a master, but he's also a master at manipulation. I mean, he's playing the heel where I think John is just a young guy figuring it out on his own while he's one of the baddest men on the planet at 25 years of age and he's had this ridiculous rise to success that happened in a really short period of time like from the time

he was like 21 years old to the time that he's 25 starts martial arts and becomes the light heavyweight champion i mean that's fucking crazy i mean he had a martial art background because he was a really good wrestler and did know some kicking and punching and stuff before he started into MMA. But he got into MMA because he got his girlfriend pregnant. And he couldn't go to college. He wanted to do the right thing and said, all right, fuck it, I'll start fighting. And then got into it. I mean, he's a crazy road for anybody to take.

And to be that popular and that famous at 25, yeah, you're going to fuck up, man. You're going to make mistakes. You got to watch. Can you almost pinpoint what it is when the switch flipped on him? I remember like, I went to UFC 101 in

Philly, Forrest Griffin versus Silva. And there, he was walking around, John Jones. And I remember my buddy Dave was with me.

He was like, there's John Jones, man. He's like, that guy's badass. He's going to be the next champ. He was just really there's John Jones, man. He's like, that guy's badass. He's going to be the next champ. He was just really pumping up, saying how great he was and how fun of a young boy. And then I started paying attention to him more, and he was amazing. And then just one day, it just seems like people were like, what a dick.

Some people, yeah. Yeah, but people want you to be perfect. They're looking for flaws, too. When you're such a bad motherfucker. The Machida thing was the first thing I saw. He didn't do anything wrong in that. What do you mean? I thought it was weird that he dropped him afterwards.

I know it's an aggressive situation, but I think dropping a guy that he said he knew was unconscious was kind of shitty for a sport. I thought this was all supposed to be handshakes at the end and stuff. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. I think he's still in combat mode, though. Sure. You could hear, but when he walks over, it's funny, Greg Jackson, you could hear him say

to him, he goes, John, go win these people back and go check on if he's okay. That's true. He says, go check if he's okay. Go get some fans. Yeah, go get some fans. Yeah, no, that's true. I think, but also I think to be a bad motherfucker at that high level, like a lot of times these guys are so intense that they get completely caught up in it and they're just trapped in the moment. I think I know the dude.

I know him from backstage. I know him from when he's not fighting. And he's really friendly. He's a really cool dude. But I wouldn't want to be fighting him. I think if you're competing against him, I think he's... All those dudes that are at the top of the heap,

they're pretty fucking ferocious. And some guys are better at keeping it together in scenarios like that, you know, where they don't drop the guy. But some guys aren't. You know, I mean, Dan Henderson was one of the greatest of all times. One of the most famous moments in his career is he knocked out Michael Bisping with his vicious right hand and Bisping went soaring. I mean, he was out cold and Henderson dropped one on him afterwards and then talked about it in the post-fight interview, how he dropped one on it.

I mean, that's common. And he said the last one was like running his mouth kind of thing yeah Babalu who's another famous mixed martial arts fighter great fighter who fought in a bunch of different organizations he lost his gig with the UFC partially because he held on to this guy after he was done choking him and then talked about it in the post fight press interview with me you know and that guy was i mean not doing anything that bj penn hadn't done bj penn did the same thing to jens pulver like pulver was tapping he still fucking hung on to it because they were angry at each other but pulver didn't go out you know and for whatever reason him holding that choke

for an extra couple of seconds was okay whereas babaloo's guy went out and then he talked about it but everybody knows why they do it sure they do it because they're fucking caught up in all the trash talking and all the bullshit and you know it is important that a fighter let go when a referee tell him not to but it's understandable how these guys get caught up in that it's understandable it's got they got to stop doing it but what john did technically is not there's nothing wrong with it. Because when the referee came over to him, he didn't keep hanging on to it. That would have been a more egregious example.

But it is one of those things where you appreciate, like Nate Marquardt fought this guy Damian Maia, knocked him out with one punch. Damian was dazed but still conscious. And Marquardt hovered over him and pulled back. Realized he was out of it the referee stepped in stopped it but nate easily could have dropped a bomb on him sure and he didn't and it was a really classy move and people really respected that that he did that and i made sure i talked about it in the commentary that is a very classy move boy jones used to do

that boy jones is like almost look at the ref like stop this he did that with vinnie pazienza he looked over at the ref and he's like come on man stop the fight and the referee said no he said okay and then he went and dropped him again you know and yeah i mean there's moments he's fighting an interesting thing when once you lose your mojo man it's amazing isn't amazing roy jones overnight went from like still doing amazing things then he lost and he lost again then he lost it it can go it's once you stop believing in yourself as an athlete, it has a lot to do with you believing you're indestructible. Once you see that chick in your own armor, man,

getting that energy back up to do it again must be really, really hard. Yeah, I guarantee. And there was a lot of other factors involved in Roy, too, because he went up to heavyweight and then really had to dehydrate himself and weaken himself very badly getting back down the light heavyweight again and then he got knocked out I mean he fought um uh Glenn Johnson right no Glenn Johnson knocked him out after god damn it I can't believe Tarver yes Antonio Tarver Tarver knocked him out Tarver was the first guy to stop him and he did it in a fight where it was a rematch of a fight that they had that was very close.

Yeah. And then Roy went up to heavyweight. He boxed John Ruiz and beat him for the title, then came down to light heavyweight. And in losing that 25 pounds, he really dehydrated the shit out of himself. He looked terrible. He looked like he had starved. He lost all of his hardness to his muscles. He looked terrible.

It was a really ugly weight cut. And he might have been on some shit to his muscles. He looked terrible. It was a really ugly weight cut. And he might have been on some shit to get up to heavyweight too. That's possible. And then you get off that shit, your hormone levels crash. That's a speculation. But the bottom line was Tarver knocked him out. And when Tarver connected, and Tarver's a big puncher,

and we connected and knocked him out, Roy was never the same. Then the Glenn Johnson fight was scary. That's it. Never the same. It's one day. It just happens. Mike Tyson was never the same. Then the Glenn Johnson fight was scary. That's it, never the same. It's one day, it just happens. Mike Tyson was never the same. Lennox Lewis. He was never the same necessarily after jail, but he was still pretty ferocious after jail.

Well, Tyson went to jail after he lost the title. Tyson lost and then went to jail and came back and was still fucking ferocious. Yeah. The difference in what happened with Roy is that Roy fought again within a certain amount of time and got knocked out really bad. And when you get knocked out by a guy, when you get your brain scrambled, it takes a long time for it to heal. It's like Freddie Roach is a genius. And one of the things that he did brilliantly with Manny Pacquiao is after Pacquiao got knocked out, he told him, like, you're not going to fight for a year.

He's like, take your head out of this. Like, there's no more. We're going to. That was a bad knockout. And Freddie is a guy who suffers from trauma-related Parkinson's himself. He's got the shakes from his career in boxing. And so because of that, he's super, super aware of damage. And he's like, look, you could be okay, but you've got to heal up.

Like, there's no contact for a long time you're gonna not fight for a year and then he came back a year later and he looked great yeah he looked like manny pacquiao and it's i think that rest time is like super important that recuperation time it's very important when a guy gets knocked out and so we saw roy get beat by that guy or get beat by tarver and then beat again by johnson in a really scary way yeah yeah that's when he went through the ropes well he went down and backed his banged his head off the ground and he was stiff at the end of the fight like he was like stiff in this weird scary way um and it didn't look like the kind of punch that would do that to you like it didn't look like

the kind of punch that would uh really put you in Like, it didn't look like the kind of punch that would really put you in a catatonic state like that. That was scary as shit, man. It was also scary because Roy Jones, you know, he used to be invincible. Yeah, that's what I mean. Watching that happen to people is very, you know, watching, like, you know, Michael Jordan number 45 come back

on the Washington Wizards. You know, you're like, ah. Well, it was like watching Michael Jordan play baseball. Yeah, that was the first thing. He's human. Yeah, that was definitely the first thing. But I mean, but to come back, because he came back and then was pretty great again. But then by the time he came back on the Wizards that one time, it was like, why even?

Like, you never wanted to believe it wouldn't be good anymore. I never saw that. I never saw him come back. That was tough to watch. I had that with being from Philly. Iverson, when he came back, did like 16 games before he left again doesn't iverson have some weird situation where like when he gets to be 50 he gets like some giant chunk of money apparently yeah with a reebok he has some kind of like they're like set aside trust or something weird but he's broke now

right that's what they say they said he was begging for money well actually it turned out it was bullshit right wasn't that a bullshit story he's not now, right? That's what they say. They said he was begging for money. Well, actually, it turned out it was bullshit, right? Wasn't that a bullshit story? He's not even begging for money. They just retired his number. He looks fine. No, somebody was saying that he was outside of a mall asking for money, but then I think that turned out to be a bullshit rumor that someone started.

Yeah, that's absolute. I heard Marilyn Manson lives above a fucking liquor store here in L.A. He might do that just to be a fucking crazy person. Marilyn Manson is the real deal, dude. Talk to Stan. Do you know Stan Hope? No. Marilyn Manson is my favorite rock star of all time.

Do you know Stan Hope? Yeah, yeah. You need to talk to Stan Hope about Manson. They hung out? Oh, good lordy. Really? Oh, I don't want to say anything on the air. It's not my place.

But go ask. He's not playing games. Sounds like an absinthe story. Nope. It involves a lot of different things. You need to hear it all from Stan Oak. I will. I will look into that.

Or Marilyn Manson. Or talk to Tate Fletcher. Tate Fletcher's hung out with him, too. I never met Marilyn Manson because it's the same reason every time I see Dice, I never really talk to him. Because I'm like, if this guy's a douchebag to me, it's going to just destroy my thing. Dice would be cool with you. If you're a comic, yeah, you'll be cool.

I wrote him on Bobby Kelly's podcast. They made me read it. I wrote him. I got stoned one night. This should have happened 15 years ago, not a year and a half ago. I wrote him some Facebook-y love letter, and the return thing was like, this is actually Dice's assistant. He doesn't really check his personal thing. I was like, yes.

Oh, I gave him references to who to ask about me that I'm legit. Oh, no. How long had you been doing comedy when you did that? 14 years. It was a year and a half ago, as I'm saying. I got stoned and I was like, you know what it was?

I got stoned and I was listening to Dice what it was? I got stoned and I was listening to Dice Man Cometh. And Dice Man Cometh, look, as a professional adult comic now doing it many years, I see the holes in everyone's game all the way. You know what I mean?

There's no pedestal that I have except for the fact that Dice, when I was younger, loved him. It was my favorite thing in the world. It was part of the reason I would be funny. I would go to school and recite Dice lines. And it was also a bonding thing that me and my step-pop, my step-pop started dating my mom and staying over and everything like that. Like he would let me watch Dice. Like he brought that into my life. That was

like our bonding thing that we both just love Dice. So now when I see him, just one of those guys, just like you that I've just somehow, we haven't crossed paths. And I've seen him once in a while. I'm like, I'm going to go talk to him. And I just don't. Well, if I'm ever around him and you're around him, I'll introduce you. He's great. He's fun.

He's been on the podcast a bunch of times. He's been great on the podcast, yeah. I hung out with him and Norton and Anthony. And it was, God, it was a bunch of us. And Brian. And who else was with us? Was Bobby Kelly? No, it wasn't Bobby Kelly.

It was Bobby Kelly? Yeah, Bobby Kelly was there too. Yeah, and we, and who else was with us? Was Bobby Kelly? No, it wasn't Bobby Kelly. It was Bobby Kelly? Yeah, Bobby Kelly was there, too. Yeah, and we all saw him. We went to his show in Vegas at the Riviera. Nice. Which is the classic venue. It's the only place I've ever played. Hasn't changed since 1970.

I mean, they haven't done a goddamn thing. They've washed the floor. That's it. He did the comedy club? Yeah, upstairs. Right across from the Dancing Girls show? No, he was at the above thing, the theater. They used to have the Frank Marino drag show, the drag queen show. Did you ever see that?

No. Oh, it was great. He's like the lady is the queen. I think he has a book out about being a cross-dresser. He used to do a whole show where he would cross-dress this guy. He's like a famous cross-dresser for Vegas. One of those guys where you really didn't see him or hear about him anywhere else but if you're in vegas like frank marino you'd see his name on these cabs like the little triangle

that sits on top of the cab you know i'm talking about the little billboard thing they have that they rent out and uh so dice had that room it was like the upstairs room. It's a larger room. And we went to see it. We're howling like little school children. And then after it was over, we were hanging out backstage. And I was like, holy shit, I'm backstage with Dice. Like I was thinking about like being a kid and listening to his. It was a cassette. Yeah.

In my car. Dice rules. Yeah. It was just Dice, I think. The first one was just Dice. Yeah. And I was listening to it with this girl I was dating. We were crying laughing.

We thought it was so funny. Because back then, it was like so shocking what he was saying. Anytime someone dismisses Dice, I always go, he goes, he's having a hard time making friends, so I go to see the psychotherapist. And I'm like, hey, doc, I'm having a hard time making friends, you fucking cocksucker. I'm like, if you tell me that's not funny, you just don't know what funny is. That's funny. Well, he, you know, if you know his story, that dice part was a character.

Yep. Oh, yeah, no, I know. I mean, just from being a fan, but I heard him on your thing, too, tell the whole story and everything. But it's weird that he acknowledges it being a character and still in a weird way chooses to live as the character he likes it he likes being that guy

he likes wearing wrestling sort of okay Joey Buttafuoco sweatshirts and shit just the cut weightlifting gloves oh he's gonna do

flash dance the flash dance shirts he used to wear the golds gym jacket everywhere it's great the way he came out on that the one he did in the round, the special.

Yeah. Was the headband with the big feather staying alive hair. Well, you ever hear him talk about how he tried to move back to Brooklyn too? Uh-uh. Oh, it's hilarious. Yeah. He just tried to move back with those animals. They're like, after he became the Dice Man, I'm going to go back to the neighborhood.

Got to get back to fucking Beverly Hills, put up a fence and hide behind it. He can't just be hanging around with those people. It's interesting. I'd be curious to find out if Larry the Cable Guy, he's like, hey, babe, I got to run to the hardware store or whatever. I'm sure he doesn't do that, but whatever I have to go out for, if he has to go throw on a sleeveless flannel shirt, if he can go back. I mean, he doesn't do that. But whatever I have to go out for, if he has to go throw on a sleeveless flannel shirt, if he can go back.

I mean, he's like a tucked in shirt guy. Well, that is a complete and total character. Yeah, Dan Whitney. But does he almost committed to living his life now as Larry the Cable Guy? I mean, he sort of has to. I think he kind of has to. I mean, if he ever went out as Dan Whitney or did an interview, like on The View. He's one of the few real characters in stand-up. Whereas, like went on the view i don't know why i keep saying the view but if he

went on the the jimmy fallon show and the tonight show and and he went on as dan whitney it would probably blow his whole fucking thing well it isn't that what happened when you can almost pinpoint the change in dice's career trajectory was when he cried in arsenio hall humanized himself too much, which some people probably thought was a cool thing. But when he cried about it, like, you know, Dice man's supposed to come out and be, you know, they were taking his movie out of the theater. That was his beef. And he got teary-eyed. But if before he, you know, Dice is supposed to come out and be like, fuck you. Don't see my movie, you twats.

Wow. But he cried on Arsenio Hall, and it was real. It was a genuine moment and that's just you know that's not who dice is well i think he was also under some insane pressure like if you don't remember what it was like back then like there were so many people that were angry to me i mean he had like some hateful comedy yeah like the things that he was making fun like the way he was making fun of it it's like if you go back and listen to like eddie murphy raw if you go back and see some of the gay stuff like it was like really aggressively

anti-gay like homophobic the comic strip in new york i've told this on so many radio shows but does make me laugh that how things have changed and no one comes down eddie murphy ever for this stuff but they have two of his gold albums on the wall and the first one track four is just called faggots and then track one on the next album is cause uh it says faggots and then parentheses says revisited we didn't cover it all on the first go around oh my god well it's in that way like social justice warriors as it were are kind of important because that's the only reason why a lot of this change has taken place is because of how outraged people got. If people just kept quiet about it back then. So in a way, a lot of the taking it too far sort of bounces back and has a healthy middle.

You know what I mean? In some ways, there's always going to be the far left. But in a lot of ways, the far left tempers the far right. It's like because the standard, it changes. It moves back and forth. If you let people go and be as racist and as homophobic and as hateful as they want and don't do anything about it, they kind of never realize that what they're doing is shitty. But because of the blowback, like Dice,

all that crying and everything that he did, that's probably a direct result of blowback. He was constantly experiencing people that were protesting. Remember he got kicked off of MTV for life? And I remember Kurt Loder saying about how unfunny it was. And this and that. Unfunny to who? To you? Okay, I guarantee you if he did that late night at the Comedy Store, it would fucking crush. Oh, yeah. remember kurt loder saying about how unfunny it was and this now like unfunny to who to you okay

i guarantee you if he did that late night the comedy story would fucking crush oh yeah so like are you recognizing this as a character or do you think this is a real person who's saying these real things and you don't think there's any comedy in this this play that he's putting on which is essentially he's pretending to be this awful guy oh you cocksucker like they say he's gonna fuck a guy's chick in front of him it's obvious that he doesn't really mean i mean he's like five minutes left that's what he's doing there's some craziness to it is i mean it's a character i mean is that is there a difference between that character and the bad guy character in a movie where the guy is going running around killing people or raping people?

Is there a difference? I mean, it is just fiction. Like, how come we don't hold the actor responsible because the actor didn't write it? If he wrote it and he wanted to be the bad guy, would we be upset at him? No, it's like, for the comedian... For that kind of comedy.

But I mean, but there's also, you don't have to do a character to say... I feel like the entire disclaimer of everything goes to, like I said earlier, there's a laughing microphone behind you on a wall. I'm not addressing the State of the Union. I'm up here telling... That was my thing with the Tosh, the lady getting so mad. It's like, do you believe for one split second that daniel tosh is pro-rape and has slipped through the cracks to find himself massive

television success like do you believe that like that doesn't happen no it doesn't happen that would have reared its head before it's not what they're saying what they're saying is they found a green light they found a green light to be outraged and you know also some people way more sensitive than others you know being called out in front of all those people, having everybody laugh at what he said to her, probably sucked for her. Sure. So she decided that she was, for whatever reason, you know, she was justified in proving her point. Or making her point. Or expressing herself.

Which, you know, you should be allowed to express yourself. Sure. But the idea that he's supposed to apologize for that. Like, if you look at what it was on paper, and then to hear comics agreeing with him, that was just disappointing. But your outrage is supposed to come at, like, oppression, injustice, whatever. You're not supposed to, like, rage against the art.

You know what I mean? In a clear fucking around situation where someone's just fucking around. It's clear he's ad-libbing. This is not a thought-out piece, you know, where he's advocating a woman, a random woman getting raped for no reason. But it's also not a Klan rally is what I'm saying.

You're in an environment of this is what it is. Well, you know what, man? Some people would be really happy if everybody was exactly like them. If everybody had the same sensibilities, sensitivities, everybody had the same ideas about what's important to talk about, what you can't talk about,

what's taboo, what's okay. You know, there's plenty of people out there that agree and disagree and they're fucking going at it back and forth. That's what's fascinating. That's what's fascinating about trying to find out where's the middle ground. Like how much of it is me being crazy? How much of it is me just tapping into one mindset? With whatever thing you support or disagree with. You know, anything,

whether it's the style of comedy that people do or the kind of music that people are into. Some fucking kid got arrested because he took some lyrics to a song and put the lyrics up as a tweet and they arrested him because it was like some fucking crazy... Copyright?

Some song about school shootings. Oh, I was going to say, it wasn't for like the actual copyright of the song. No, no, no. They arrested him Some song about school shootings. Oh, I was going to say, it wasn't for the actual copyright of the song. No, no, no. They arrested him because he tweeted some, and the band, I forget what the, the show's almost over, I forget what the band's name was that came to his defense, but they're like, this is the lyrics to our song. It's like an anti-school shooting song.

But it's talking about where this all comes from. I don't know if it's an anti-school shooting song, but it's a song and it's coming from like the rage of like where where's this guy feeling what is this guy doing and this guy tweeted this these lyrics like if you tweet something from a movie about like kill them all let god sort them out like does that mean i'm gonna go out and kill people i mean gus van zandt made a whole basically a columbine movie yeah right yeah it's funny remember he did in that movie, though? He said what he added in, for some reason, was before they went to do the murder, they just got in the shower together and made out.

What movie was that? He just, Elephant. Elephant. He just added that in there before they went to go shoot. It was all the same thing, filming themselves and planning the whole thing for weeks and getting the guns together. And then right before school that morning, they just hopped in the shower together and started making out. The two dudes? Yeah. Nothing about that ever getting the guns together. And then right before school that morning, they just hopped in the shower to get her started making out.

The two dudes? Yeah. Nothing about that ever in the real story. That was how he made it like, you know, oh, no, this isn't the Columbine story. These kids were making out in a shower first. Wow. That's pretty clever of him. There he is.

And on that note, Big Jay Oakerson, thank you very much, brother. This was a lot of fun. This was amazing. Thank you so much. I think we could do like 100 of these. Yeah, well, anytime I come out, I'll be happy to be out here. I'm trying to come out more.

I'm trying to come out like three times a year at least. Beautiful. And you're on Ari Shaffir's storyteller show that's online and you're doing

the other one tonight. I'm doing the one for TV tonight. So I think there's probably some tickets available. Ari was upset that they weren't moving quick enough.

People just didn't know about it, but they're available for free. Contact Ari Shaffir on Twitter and he will respond to you and get you tickets for free. Yeah, definitely. Big J.

Big J. Big J. Big J. Big J. Big J. Big J. Big J. Big J.

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Use the code word ROGAN and save 10% off any and all supplements. All right, we'll be back tomorrow with Rupert Sheldrake and then Thursday with Graham Hancock. See you soon. Bye-bye. Big kiss.