The Joe Rogan Experience - #554 - W. Kamau Bell

Episode Date: September 24, 2014

W. Kamau Bell is a stand-up comic and former host of the FXX television series "Totally Biased with W. Kamau Bell".

the Joe Rogan experience and we're live you're one of those dudes that rocks two phones no no no this is an iPod touch because this phone is broken so like I can't listen to music on this phone anymore. So I just bought an iPod touch. I'm not that dude. You're not that dude? No. This is just, it looks like this is my burner.

But no, it's just a... Well, there's a lot of people that just love fucking around with a bunch of different pieces of electronics. So they carry a few of them. No, I prefer one. It's just when I went to Verizon to go, can I have a new phone since it was cracked? They were like, okay, that'll be $700. And I was like, no, it won't be. I will wait until my contract is up. What's wrong with it? It's just when I went to this Verizon to go can I have a new phone since was crack? They're like, okay, that'll be $700 and I was like, no, it won't be I will wait until my contract is up What's wrong with it? It's crack. The screen is cracked which doesn't bother me

But somehow it I'm really bad with I'm really hard on everything as my wife will attest and oh Not in a not in a ray-rice way Let's be clear, but uh, the jack is all fucked up So I can't I can't hear things in anymore. In a Ray Rice way will be a statement for a long time now. No, yeah, until somebody else knocks two of their wives out in an elevator. Like Michael Vicking your dog. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that whole scenario is leading to so many different people getting in trouble for domestic violence and reports of domestic violence.

Yeah, man. getting in trouble for domestic violence and reports of domestic violence and anthony johnson one of the fighters in the ufc got suspended just because there was just the the possibility that maybe something happened so there's an inquiry i mean there's a sea change we're going through a sea change right now yeah yeah and it's all about i think because i've talked about this a little bit before that it used to be you only knew the shit that you knew that was directly in front of you that you want information you either sought out or your friends brought to you. But now on Facebook and Twitter, people are like finding out about Ray Rice who were like, I didn't know there was a thing called the NFL. You know what I mean? Like everybody's getting everybody's shit so that the NFL has had domestic violence for, you know, since the dawn of the NFL.

And not that it's any worse than regular society, but they've had it. But now it's at the point where people who never were paying attention to the NFL are noticing it. Also, people are going and looking through the past of a lot of these different guys. I think whenever you're dealing with a bunch of super athletes who are also involved in an incredibly aggressive sport and you add in head trauma yes repeated head trauma and a lot of them like ray rice has said that that's how he was raised or that uh no he wouldn't say it was a peterson peterson agent peterson said that's how he was raised when he was getting knocked the fuck out in an elevator yeah yeah that was ray rice yeah i mean i i've pulled I've pulled a switch off a tree

because I had to go get one, but I didn't have my nuts all cut up. Like, I think there's different... He had his nuts cut up? That was the kid. It was like that there was, from what I read, that there was actual injuries

on his genital area. Really? That's what I, like, you know, I'm not trying to testify in a court of law, but I heard that it was like, I mean, there's, certainly there's abuse

and there's also discipline and we all, that line is changing. Like I said not trying to testify in a court of law, but I heard that it was like, I mean, there's certainly there's abuse and there's and there's also discipline. And we all that line is changing. Like I said, we're going through a sea change where everybody knows everybody's shit now. But I don't I don't think you can hide. But we all had fucked up shit had to happen to us by our parents. But doesn't have to pass it on to the next. You don't got to pay it forward. Fuck. Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good point. And I've been talking about it lately that my parents were raised by immigrants, immigrants that came over from Italy and Ireland. And, you know, those people that came over here in the 1920s, they were savages. They might as well have been cave people, right? They got on these shitty boats that floated across the ocean, took months. They got over here. They got their name changed right away. And immediately they started fucking and shitting out kids. And then they raised those kids with their savage instincts. And in a neighborhood that they're not allowed to leave because their accent is too thick and they eat weird food. So they're not allowed to leave that neighborhood at the point when Italians weren't considered to be white. Those people aren't white. Or, you know, Polish people aren't white.

And then eventually they lose the accents they're allowed to integrate into the rest of the city. I had a history professor on yesterday, Thaddeus russell who explained that exact same thing you know how all these different cultures integrate into society and they're considered non-whites except for one except except for the black folks yeah we don't get to integrate yeah well it was also his his take on it was the unique aspect of America is that America was the country that had this Puritan value system. Like these people came over and they had this like really repressive value system and very repressed society. But they also had slaves. And the slaves didn't, they didn't accept any of that. had slaves and the slaves didn't they didn't accept any of that and then they became part of the culture radically influenced the art radically in for influence the language who

the slaves of the slaves did yeah i mean this is one of the most unique things about america is the african-american influence and the western africans integrating into this really fucked up Puritan, very repressed society. And then you see in America, like 90% of all entertainment comes out of here. A massive amount of innovation comes out of here. A massive difference in the way we speak English as opposed to the way English people speak English. There's so many variables that came out of that. And it makes you think like how much of it kind of bringing it all back to the Peterson

thing of beating his kids how much of the way human beings live our lives is based just on the momentum of the people that came before us whether it's his parents had been him or some fucking weird puritanical society that you just unluckily were born into yeah yeah well there's yeah a lot of that is but again there's that i certainly understand that we you know like i said all of us have fucked up things happen to us in our childhood some of us go i gotta put a stop to this like you know that you make the choice to go i gotta break the cycle and sometimes it's in big ways like i'm gonna go to college nobody went to college and sometimes it's like i'm not gonna

slap my kid in the nuts you know what i mean like? Like, it's just, I'm going to talk to him, you know? And certainly, I was whipped as a kid by different things. I mean, I always say one of my grandmother's favorite stories was to talk about how she beat me with a shoe one time. And that was Thanksgiving. Everybody sit down and let's hear the beat with a shoe story. That was not like in therapy. She told that story. It's like, hey, grandma, tell them how you beat me with a shoe story again.

And everybody would laugh. And it was a good Southern time. What was the cause? What did you do that made her beat you with a shoe? It's funny. It's the South. I said, what? That's it?

Yeah. So call me. Say, come out. Come out. What? You said, don't say what to me. So, what, bah, what, bah. It's supposed to be be yes ma'am?

Yes ma'am. Wow. And I lived in the, I swear to say the north, but I lived with my mom in the north, so I didn't know, that wasn't a thing in the north that you couldn't say what. So I didn't know, and I felt really like tricked, like I felt entrapped, like nobody, give me a list of rules of how it works here in the south, and I won't do those things. That's funny, man. That's funny.

I got beat with a shoe for saying what well kids when they're starting to uh sort of find themselves when they're starting to establish their own identity one of the first things they do is immediately try to challenge the way you discipline them and the way you you like my daughter loves doing that i go you know i'll say to her hey come on we got to go do something it's what she's like look at me what i'm watching tv i go i know you watch tv but you got to eat yeah it's time to eat no i want to watch the show it's not no i want to watch show there's no there's no no we're not negotiating yeah this is just what's going to happen the tv's going to get shut off yeah yeah no i angry i was i i stand. I was not testing authority. I just didn't hear her.

I just thought like, I'm sorry, what? Oh, God! It was entrapment. It was entrapment, yeah. And then it became, every year, the story was told as like the bell holiday stories. God, that's so weird that it's fun to beat kids with shoes. It was fun. Well, you know, and I worked out pretty well, I think.

Yeah, it came out great. But it didn't happen here's it didn't happen every day it wasn't a it wasn't like the here's my time to get beat but it certainly was the thing that i remember and i'm not going to do that to my daughter like yeah there's no there's no shoe beating happening in my house yeah yeah yeah it's it's sick when you when you see like i saw the pictures of just his kid's leg that were beat with the switch. It's a sick thing. Yeah. It's like beating a kid is not the way to raise a kid.

It's not. Yeah. Like, I think there's that as a parent. There's times when you do grab your kid. You might grab your kid because you're like, don't touch that or don't do that or you're going to get hurt. And I need to get your attention. I mean, my daughter's cool. But if I yell, she gets like, you yelled at me.

Yeah. And then I feel bad. And I'm like, man, that's a different era. Yeah, we're raising babies. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a softer, friendlier world we're getting to. It is, and I just like that. I like that aspect of it. I like that we're becoming more aware of the negative impact.

I mean, if we didn't learn from the fucked up shit that our parents and grandparents did to us, then we would really be idiots. I mean, that's the whole point. We're evolving. We have to go, they did that, and I'm going to try to do something one better. And I think specifically the culture of athletes is that if you're a professional athlete, you've probably been coddled since you were in high school and been told, and you've been given a different set of rules to live by, so that

somebody who grew up with Ray Rice, who maybe came out of the same neighborhood, may not be doing the things he's doing because they work at fucking Walmart and they're not allowed to tell people what the fuck they think all the time, and they're not allowed to do those things. But Ray Rice, as a professional athlete, as a star, is living by a completely different set of rules. And what happens to a guy

like that now? He's kind of fucked. I mean, you know, Michael Vick was supposed to be fucked too. I think if you, America likes a comeback. Mike Tyson was, nobody was more fucked

than Mike Tyson was when he was, you know, convicted for rape and went to jail and he seems to come out of that okay. America likes a comeback. That is true.

That is true. If he does the things that allow him, you know what I mean? Like, if he, like, I always think about Tiger Woods, America hasn't accepted him back because there were, unfortunately you can't go to jail for cheating on your wife. Like if he could have gone to jail and then like people would be like, oh, he was in jail

for 18 months. Right. Now we'll let him come back. But we're still, people are still judging him for what he did. Could you imagine how happy women would be if a guy could go to jail for cheating on his wife? It would be if a guy could go to jail for cheating on his wife? They would be so excited. There would be blogs written every day where women would be recounting stories from high school asking their boyfriends to be put back in jail.

The things that happened a decade ago. Yes, they would be. The professional victim crusade would be out in full force. But since you can't do that, Tiger was still walking around with his head down going, I said I was sorry. I was on an airplane. It was really funny. There was this guy and his wife and they were in front of us.

The guy was going over the golf score. The woman had a golf visor on so I guess they probably both played golf. The guy was going over and he goes like this. He goes, Tiger blew it in the whatever round. don't follow golf i don't know how it works and she goes of course he did like of course he did of course what the fuck have you

done what have you done lady are you really shitting on tiger ones the greatest golfers the fucking planet has ever known he can't't. Tiger, unfortunately, did not go to jail for it, so he can never really recover from it unless he, you know, if his wife had stayed with him, then they would have been like, okay, they worked it out. Because his wife left him, as I understand, you know. When you get to like 14, 15 women, you go, I think this isn't working out.

But he can't, there's no thing to do. It's not like even with Kobe where like the court case ended whether you believe it Ended in the right way. It was at least resolved so they're like I can just play but in Nike's like, okay Well, what the fuck with you now, you know, you can come back in the fold But and especially because tiger is not as good as he was before then which is really shocking I think that's I feel like it's mental. Yeah Totally like that's what I'm saying. He didn't I think he knows and i mean i don't know tiger woods at all but i think i just feel like that thing i've been that guy where you're like i fucked up and there's no way to get

out of this i just gotta sit in my juices for a while and hope it passes well also i don't think either one of us could ever understand what it's like to be a that famous and b that hated yes yes those are that and it started when you were 19. Yeah. You know, that's the thing to me about the same as professional athletes. You became famous

before your brain was full, before your fucking soft spot. You know what I mean? You weren't even full grown. You weren't even

full grown. Yeah, you didn't even have your man weight on you. You didn't have shoulders yet, you know? You're suddenly one of those famous people on the planet.

I understand why on his side, like, you know, as a kid who was a nerd and went to Stanford and his dad just made him play golf forever that he was like, I think I'd like to have sex with lots of women. I just never had that chance. And I know I got married and that was probably a dumb idea, but I get that. Yeah.

But then you can't, you know, he got caught. Well, there's also, I think, this is just speculation, but I think there's- Oh, yeah, all of this is speculation. I want to be clear about all this. Me as well. There's a thing that goes along with being a great athlete. There's like this conqueror mentality. It's like they can't be beaten.

I mean, Muhammad Ali screaming, I'm the greatest of all time. When he did that, everybody loved it. Half the people loved it and half the people thought we need to draft him into the military and force him to be our bitch. True. You try not to say bitch?

I try to. I'm that guy. Don't let them get you, bro. No, it's not about them getting you. It's a female dog. I know, yeah, but it's also a slur for women. But not always. It's a lot of times a slur for men. Well, it's become that.

Just like nigger's not always a slur for black people. But it's more often a slur for black people. But you're allowed to call them. If I say, Jamie, you nigger, that's like a terrible thing to say. Yeah, I even, I got, wait, slow down, dude. I got nervous even here to come out of my own mouth yeah exactly but like like settle down bitch like that's still fun i'm not telling you i'm not right but you you personally that's my yeah i'm just this is how i

you know wow yeah they got you i don't but they maybe already had me you're not gonna go my past and be like man he used to have he was the bitch guy look at the amount of bitches he used yeah yeah and then it's really scaled back no it went from three to zero i say other words i say nigger a lot it just i feel like i can but i don't say that in a way like i would never i would only jokingly say to my black friend what's up my nigga i wouldn't say that i don't call him that and i talk about i use word n nigga on stage a lot because i'm talking about it but i'm right so i'm not a it's not the word police it's just we all have our own set of rules that we i got so thrown off by your refusal of the word bitch that i forgot what

what my entire point was going to be that's my that's my goal yeah i've got just like a you know when in the cage i gotta make sure you're nervous. That's a good move. We were talking about, oh, Muhammad Ali, I'm the greatest of all time. And I was just saying that, like, some people loved it, some people hated it. Yeah, well, no doubt. And the people love that conqueror mindset. They love the person who's extremely confident. Yes, they love. They love, like, Mike Tyson when he was in his prime.

Yeah. You know, that, you know, there's something about a guy who's at his best who thinks he could do whatever the fuck he wants and then keeps pulling it off the people love to see him fail yes but they also love to see him succeed and but then some people love to hate that guy oh you know you know so that's there they they you know is it like it's true of all these guys I mean you know yeah John Jones thing you know yeah yeah also good why is he so good? Oh, they hate that.

Why? I don't like that he's so good. Yeah. There's no doubt there's an issue with that. But I speculate on what it's like to be that guy when you are that good at something like golf. Like a guy like Tiger Woods, who is arguably the greatest golfer of all time, or right up there with him. I mean, for the time when he was on a run, I'm not a golf historian, but as it's been explained to me.

Yeah, he had like a 10-year run where it was just like, I think it was on Parallel, where he was going to be competitive every weekend that he played golf. He was always going to make the cut. And golfers, I know enough that there's wild swings. Like a guy who wins one week may not make the cut the next week because it's mostly mental i mean it's a lot physical but it's also you have to hold yourself together and recover and so there's wild swings in golf and he had an amazing consistency that even if he didn't

win he was in the top 10 you know yeah and then all of a sudden that went away he because amazing because it's mental i think well like all sports like all sports is mental. Everything is mental. But I think in that, with golf especially, like, if you're not mentally in the thing, you can't do the thing. It's not about your physical gifts. He's still strong. He's still bigger than everybody. He does have physical issues too now, though, doesn't he? He does have a lot.

Back problems and knee problems and stuff. Yeah, he does. He does. But a lot of that stuff, and, you know, but he's still not too old to, I mean, you know, Tiger's at the age that most golfers are sometimes in their prime, like in that sort of late 30s, this is when he should be good. But he's also, he was the first golfer to put muscle on and really work out, and sometimes if you put too much muscle on, you can fuck yourself up eventually. Yeah, well, that also fucks up your coordination sometimes. Like with pool players, I play a lot of pool, and pool players, one of the things that happens to them is they lift a lot of weights. If they start lifting weights, they start getting really tense.

Pool players lift weights? Yeah. That's a thing? Yeah. Pool players are trying to be more fit because being more fit gives you more energy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can play longer matches. I understand that.

And you can maintain your concentration. I know it seems counterintuitive. No, I get that you would want to be in good shape, but being buffed to play pool seems like that would be counterintuitive. Not even buff, but strong. Yeah, yeah. So that your core and your, like a lot of times pool players develop back issues because you're bending over all the time.

Absolutely. So just the idea that you're lifting weights to keep your body strong, but in doing so sometimes you create all this tension and then that tension fucks up your feel for where the ball's going and i would imagine a guy like tiger started getting pretty buff you know there's a lot of that in like how you knock a ball around on a golf course as well right yeah just that yes that delicate touch yeah that it's fair that it's a lot of uh fast twitching and a lot of tension and releasing and yeah there was a guy named willie hoppy he's like a famous billiards player from the early 1900s like one of the all-time greats and he wouldn't even drive a car wouldn't even do anything with his hands until he got to that table just didn't didn't touch

anything just like would eat his food and just no tension at all he wanted his arms to be delicate and loose so he had a full control of where the ball was going at all times i wish i could do that with the comedy i can't i can't talk i just gotta sit here and be in a yeah yeah some people like that man some people rest their voice and shit and they drink tea i mean i do like to lemon like before the show i do like to do a thing where it's like just don't talk to me for an hour if it's a big show i do like to shut it i like to shut it down i do the opposite really yeah yeah when it's a big show i like to talk a lot and have fun. Oh, yeah. So that when I go out there, I'm loose and I'm having a good time.

Yeah. I guess it depends. Last night I did Largo, and I had the other comics backstage and we were talking. But I think it was because I wanted to do that because there was a lot of industry people out there, and I just didn't want to focus too much on the fact that, like, oh, this is just my career. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. People paying attention to you and staring at you. What can we do with him

can we get money to go in his general direction can we sign him up for this is he a lead yes is he the head guy is he the is he the friend of the guy the friend is he the neighbor the wacky neighbor that cosmo kramer's his way into the room or is he the feature guy who comes in for six episodes and everybody loves but doesn't want to see him too much yeah it could be that yeah we can't overstate his welcome. You had an awesome show, man. You had a really good show, a groundbreaking show that for some reason some fucking suits decided they should take it from the very profitable FX

and move it to FXXXXX, which nobody even was informed was a real channel. Yeah, it was, you know, I'm better for the show having happened i certainly feel like a little bit the show getting canceled in such a way made it a better story for people like it's now become like woodstock like more people claim they were there than were there like i watched it occasionally like we were like i was there every night and i couldn't but it's like but now people when, when it was gone, people got more,

it got more attention from it being gone and so I really appreciate that but yeah, it was a crazy. Well you, you know, you were known for being a stand-up comic

and then all of a sudden you hear, oh, FX is doing a show with Kamau Bell and it's being produced by Chris Rock. Yeah.

So whenever you say Chris Rock, it's attached to something. Yeah, we all get excited. One of the greatest comedians of all time is producing this show. This fucking show's got to be fantastic. Absolutely.

And what you did, I thought that was really unique, is you tackled some pretty interesting subjects and some things you never see discussed, like rape jokes. I mean, you had that thing with Lindy West. Is that her name? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Jim Norton. Is that his name? Yeah.

Yeah. I just didn't want to fuck her name on it. No, I appreciate it. norton is that his name yeah yeah i'm just i just want to fuck her name i appreciate um and you you guys got into like some complex subject matter for television yeah which is late night television yeah which is just i mean usually it's like my new song is all about love and i never i never wanted a late night talk show it just ended up being that was the format that they called it like i just wanted a show right and they said it comes on at 11 after 11. i'm like can it come on at eight but there's that thing if there's a person who's standing on a stage talking to an audience about the world then it's a late night talk show and i was always

sort of rebelling against that format and trying to make it just a show that i would want to watch yeah well i think you did a good job at doing that yeah it's when when a show is on a network there's always going to be like a bunch of people that are also trying to change the direction of it like you got your ideas and then you got your producer's ideas which add hopefully to your ideas the director's ideas which add and then you got executives a lot of fucking kick cooks in the kitchen yes you absolutely do and that coming from the world of stand-up and also the world doing my like the solo show that got me the thing i i had friends helping me and i had people help me but it was ultimately it was my words were the

thing that were coming out of my mouth and my idea nobody people could say what you should do this and i'd be like oh think about it but when you're in that in that meat grinder environment especially when it became daily there's so many people who are sort of yelling things at you and at some point just for lack of you can't if you can't top their idea you sort of go I guess we'll do that you know or or if somebody goes like I just told this yesterday like somebody will be like oh you know what I was thinking we could do a cold open well I don't really want to do a cold open because that's just not the kind of show I want well I think we have we have a big guest on we'll do the cold open

well I don't really want to do that, I asked the guest he wants to do it Okay, I guess we'll do it and then the guest shows up and go we're doing this cold Oh music I don't to do it you go Oh, but we already bought the whipped cream and the suddenly in this vision of like why are we doing this? Why we've are it just there's this machine of television and the machine that suddenly you're just as I see either I felt like I was he it was like a meat grinder and either I was putting the meat in the grinder or I was the meat for the grinder right and in that format when it was daily a lot of days I was the meat I think it gets to a point

where you're like a Jon Stewart type dude where you're you get to decide what goes in the grinder yeah and I think that Stewart I read a lot of stuff on him he they took him two and a half years to get the daily show like we don't all we think of the daily show we're really really thinking about the last 10 years of The Daily Show. We're not thinking about when he first got there and took over from Craig Kilbourne. And it was sort of a wacky afternoon parody show of news event show. Yeah, it was more of a pop culture type thing. It was like a parody of those, they don't really do these anymore,

but those afternoon shows that you see like Even know evening magazine like those things from like the 80s yeah yeah yeah it's like we went to the floor show and found this new floor is too blah blah blah and john took it a more political direction yeah but he had this from everything i read comedy central didn't want it but he was in a position where he wasn't being told he was the face of the network and that all the pressure was on him because they were he had south park and he had all the all the other stuff on comedy such as whereas on fx on fxx it was they had one night of original programming that wasn't that included me when it was like the league or it's always sunny or jim jeffries every other night it would be like you'd be somebody be at home watching a mad about you rerun and enjoying it and then suddenly a black guy would come on

screaming about the events of the day and i get they get there and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa! No, no, no, I was enjoying Paul Reiser from the 90s. A black guy. A black guy. You just said that, like, in a way, this... Is that something you were acutely aware of, like, how they were programming it? I just think I'm aware of the audience. If you're watching, I'm mad about you, Rerun.

And I'm not in any way insulting mad about you, but I'm saying if you're like i'll insult it okay that's why i just don't shit's bad for america good for paul rogers i just don't have any opinion it's that's your thing if you're watching a rerun of some sitcom in the 90s and you're enjoying it which you can and then suddenly i come on screen and i'm the op i'm basically the opposite of that i'm a guy who's talking about right now i'm not talking about what happened in the 90s, and I'm a black guy, and you're just watching a bunch of white people on the Upper West Side of Manhattan

talk about, well, how are we going to get to the coffee shop if we don't bob it up? And then I come on there talking about homophobia. It's a hard transition, whereas if there's a network that's programmed where I'm a part of the package, then things will segue one into the other. Well, yeah.

Not only a guy that's a polar opposite of the 90s, a current guy, but a progressive black guy. Yeah. Who's intelligent. Who's talking about some controversial and- And it's hard. It becomes hard to box. It's not like I'm doing, oh, this is what I expect black guys to do.

Right. And I'm doing things where I'm being vulnerable or also talking about issues that I don't know anything about and I'm trying to learn about them. Yeah. Right. And I'm doing things where, you know, where I'm being vulnerable or also talking about issues that I don't know anything about and I'm trying to learn about them. Yeah, yeah, that's huge. And that's, I thought, was an interesting approach of your show

that you don't really see too much when it comes to controversial issues. Like a guy who, instead of pretending to be the expert in everything, you know, the voice of reason, you kind of like laid back and asked questions and tried to piece it together on the spot that's was the that was like the man on the street stuff we did was always the stuff people

responded to the best in addition to the the debates we did uh but like when i would go on the street and talk to people and we would make comedy out of what we were talking about whether we agreed or not just out of like me talking to them about whatever the issues were and that stuff i always felt like it my comedy that way doesn't work if i pretend to be the smartest guy in the room like people say i'm smart which sometimes when people say that they go you're smart and they sort of do it shake your head i didn't expect that yeah yeah or also like industry like we don't know what to do with that uh yeah but i so i will take that i certainly like to read and know stuff like you do but i'm not the smartest of my friends i'm the

funny one of my friends. You know what I mean? I'm the one who they're like, oh, Kamau, you don't know what you're talking about. Here, read this. And so that's the place that it works best for me, not to go on TV and be like, let me explain. Unless I'm talking about something about being black in America,

then I feel like, oh, I've got some research. I've done quite a bit of reading. Or being a comic or anything that you're an expert in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's areas where I feel like I will hold my opinion. But for a lot of stuff, I'm trying to see. We don't have to know everything all the time. When I watched your show, the first thing I thought, besides that this is a really good show and really unique, is that you should be on the internet.

I'm like, why doesn't he just do this fucking show on the internet where he could be himself 100%? Yeah. Because you can get numbers on the internet that are just as big as any number you got on FXXXXX. Yeah, definitely the numbers we got. I think it was called historically low. I think I can do that on the internet. But it seems like you developed a following. There's a lot of really positive reactions to what you were doing.

And it seems like you carry that onto the internet smoothly and it would just take off like wildfire well that right now i was there's a lot of things that happened when the show got canceled like we were because so me and my wife my daughter moved to new york for the show we'd never lived in new york never thought about new york my wife is born and raised monterey california doesn't want to be out of northern california so we moved and i lived there so we moved to this so then the show canceled, and then there was this period of like, I don't know, what do you call it, crippling depression? Like where you're just like, what happens next? What do I do?

Do we stay here? Do we leave? And then my wife got pregnant. She's pregnant with our second kid. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. And so it was this thing about like, well, okay, now what do we do?

Are we going to raise a kid? Like, are we going to have a baby in New York? And that just sounded like a reality show I didn't want to watch. Like, you know, can these couple have a baby? No, we can't a baby in new york and that just sounded like a reality show i didn't want to watch like you know can these couple have a baby no we can't not in manhattan and so we just moved back to the bay like six weeks ago and everything in my life has been like okay like i just feel like i can breathe again and so what do you like more about san francisco than new york uh i think new york is new york is the greatest city in the world i'm not trying to i think it is but it's also a hard city to live in.

I feel like if you're from there, born and raised, you can do it. Or if you move there and have the means to live the life you want, or you're 22. I feel like those, but I'm not any of those things at this point. The Bay, you get all the good stuff that New York has, all the culture, all the ideas, all the diversity. But there's just a more wide it's more wide open space. And there's more, there's more conversation. There's more like, you know, it just, it feels like you can,

it's an area where people move there to be curious. You know what I mean? Like they move there to be like, I'm going to see if I can turn my.com idea into, you know, like, or people go, I'm going to go there to be gay as I want to be and find out if I can be too gay. You know what I mean?

They also go, this is a $4 million house? Well, yeah. We live in Berkeley. What the fuck? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lived in San Francisco and moved back, and my joke is that San Francisco is like, now you live in Berkeley. I can't.

We can't. I can't live in San Francisco anymore. Nobody can. No. The city is only seven by seven. People don't realize that. It's tiny. Yeah. And at some point, I think Gavin Newsom, the mayor, realized, wait, this could all be high-end real estate.

The entire city could be high-end real estate. That's kind of what it is now. Yeah, so it's become a thing where unless you live there for 40 years and own your property, people are being kicked out. Old people are being kicked out of apartments they've lived in for their entire lives because landlords are turning their buildings into condos. And it's really a big deal there. I lived in San Francisco during the Vietnam War. I lived in San Francisco when I was a little kid.

Oh, that's the way you said that. It felt like you were in the Vietnam War. I was in Nam. Yeah. That's a funny way. Not I lived there in 72. I lived there during the Vietnam War. I was an objector, conscious as an objector, as a four-year-old.

I was seven. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I knew better yeah but uh it shaped the way uh I look at the world very very uh very much so it's a very it's too open sometimes I think people like San Francisco gets so liberal it gets conservative like where they're like where they get very tunnel vision in their liberalness so that's but I think for me that's I've learned to understand that and I loved and that's a part of why I think my act developed the way it is. I've learned to fuck with that Yeah, so I don't it's not perfect But it just it just feels like you can breathe out there and you still get all the stuff like you don't you're not missing

Any of the concerts or any of the movies or any of the food of New York, right? But you get to like you get to your everything's not 400 feet tall. That is an interesting thing though Isn't it how like you can get so liberal that it almost becomes conservative because it becomes so dogmatic in your idea. Because liberals get very focused on their version of liberalism. Yes. And they're aggressive about it. Yes. Yeah. You know, that's a big thing about

it is it's not about kindness and love and understanding so much as about pushing their idea with kindness, love, and understanding should be. And if you disagree, you're a fucking male pig patriarch asshole white privilege piece of shit dying of fire you know it gets it gets pretty aggressive i agree with the white privilege part but uh no but i think that's people don't realize and that's what the show was trying to do that people get caught up in like i'm uh for example my friends i have milton black friends

who like milton black is the thing and they sort of ignore like the like the gay right side of it and suddenly that somebody starts talking about gay rights like no that's not important it's militancy black militancy and then there's gay people were like no no no immigration's not important it's about gay and so people get caught in their lane and the show and my life is about no we all of us on the right side of the issues Need to get in the same hot tub together and figure it out You know like we need to sort of talk that we're all in the right side me up into a hot tub What gay dudes what militants are in there you can have a fucking brawl hot tub Who has a brawl in a hot tub it can happen?

I've never seen a brawl in a hot tub I never saw a fucking guy knock a girl out in the elevator before the ray rice video but apparently it's possible i'm sure there's lots of footage of guys getting people getting knocked out in elevators but i think brawl hot tub brawl somebody google hot tub brawl and see what comes up there's a very famous story about a guy i don't know if you uh heard this one a few years ago he was a newscaster and um he was a gay guy that was in the closet. He was on, like, Oklahoma TV or some shit like that. And, you know, one of those, thanks, Bob.

All right, today's top story. You know, one of those fucking weird guys. He woke up with a dead guy next to him. They had been doing crystal meth all night and having gay sex. And the guy had a belt around his neck. And the guy had asphyxiated while doing autoerotic asphyxiation, and he passed out. They passed out together in this hot tub.

So he woke up in the hot tub, methed out, doing pills, with a blue guy next to him with a belt around his neck. Oh, wow. You know, I mean. But again, not a fight. Not a fight. Allegedly. They were all in it together. Muskegon hot tub brawl leads to arrest, assault charge. But that's not a fight. Not a fight. Allegedly. They were all in it together.

Muskegon hot tub brawl leads to arrest, assault charge. But that's Michigan, man. They fight over everything. Those are crazy white people. That's a different kind of human being. I love that you Googled hot tub brawl and found something. Yeah, it's out there, bro. Of course.

Everything's out there. I said that because I wanted to see it. Ta-da. I knew that. I knew it was coming. Of course there's going to be a fight in the hot tub. It's probably a style of fighting. A style of fighting.

It'll be the next UFC hot tub brawling. Yeah, people use techniques. You've got to push off the back of the tub. It's very important. The pH balance of the water makes a big difference. Don't get it in your mouth. It'll affect your breathing. There's a lot going on with hot tub brawling.

Hot tub brawling. It's funny. One of my favorite just to remind you of this is like one of my favorite things about San Francisco and just favorite things I ever saw in San Francisco is like

so gay community crystal meth has been a problem in the gay community or an awesome thing yeah depends on depends how it's worked out for you when you take it

yeah yeah yeah depends somebody out there is having the Keith Richards version of it like crystal meth is working for me you know somebody out there it can't be Richards version of it, like, crystal meth is working for me, you know, somebody out there. It can't be bad for everybody.

Otherwise, they'd stop selling it. Is that really how it works? Yes. Is that why McDonald's is open? Because some people are eating it and feeling... I had a fucking Egg McMuffin this morning. It was delicious. You're going to have one tonight?

No. You're going to have one tomorrow? That's the key. Egg McMuffins, unlike crystal meth, do not require you to continue using them all day to maintain a state of normalcy. Maybe. I think McDonald's would like you to use them every day. I'm sure they would, but they'd stop selling them after 10.30 a.m. just to keep people from becoming junkies. They understand. That's right. You can't get the Egg McMuffin after 10.30 because we don't want to cause a problem in America. Yeah, it could be.

because we don't want to cause a problem in America. Yeah, it could be. But there was a billboard in San Francisco, like on the bus shelter, like in the gay neighborhood where I had to, I used to take the bus from there because I would hang out. And there was a billboard and it was a guy, like all it was,

it was a billboard that said, don't do crystal meth or something. And the image of the billboard was a guy, I'll just do it like, so it's like you're standing over his shoulder and he's doing this. And it was implying that he was getting fucked in the ass and didn't know it because he was on crystal meth what it was like he was like ah like he's got this horrified look on his face because it's from the and he's got his shirt off and it's from the perspective of

like oh some guy is fucking him in the ass so he's waking up yeah in the middle of like the crystal meth haze he realizes oh my oh my god, I'm getting fucking... I'm making poor choices! Exactly! And it was like a thing at the bus shelter right next to the Safeway. I was just like, I love this city. What a ridiculous ad, though. Who fucking greenlit that? It got my

attention. I haven't done crystal since, or before. Good for you. I'm glad you learned from wacky ads like that. Yeah, I know. Sounds like a bad scene. Yes, I think San Francisco is like,

if not the smartest, one of the smartest towns in the world. I mean, I think it gets a lot of credit for that, and I think that it can be, but I also think

that if you, like the comedy crowds get attention for being smart, I think that can be true, but it's also, you can also walk into a San Francisco club and be like,

where did these people come from? You know what I mean? Tourists. Tourists, but there's also just a can also walk into a San Francisco club and be like, where did these people come from? You know what I mean? Tourists. Tourists, but there's also just a lot of like, you know, I don't want to try, bridge and tunnel. There's a lot of like people coming into San Francisco. Stockton crowds. And there's also, the original San Francisco people who live there are just people. Like you will go to neighborhoods in San Francisco where you're like, these people don't know it's the gayest city on earth.

This dude's a plumber. He doesn't know that this is like the most progressive city on the planet. Do you think that this whole, what would you call it gentrification is that what they call it when you call it these people buy up the real estate and it's going through the roof where they create neighborhoods where neighborhoods weren't before or should have been and they didn't want to make a neighborhood is that what can you do what can they do to stop that i mean almost nothing the amount of money the wealth that's in Concentrated wealth makes it I mean unless we want to storm the streets and get all like Ukraine in there the

Concentrated wealth makes it damn near impossible because the first not the first way but when I moved to San Francisco in the 90s There was the dot-com the first dot-com bubble and they tried to gentrify the mission and back then What they were doing was trying it was tearing down stuff and building new things. The neighborhood flexed on them and said, and the Mission is a historically Latino neighborhood. And the neighborhood flexed and said, no, you can't do this. And I don't know how they did it, but they stopped them. But now the money is so much bigger and the bubble didn't burst. And it's Google money and Facebook money, which is going to last for the end of time. Time being 10 years from now.

But that the money is so concentrated concentrated that and they're now being sneaky about how they gentrify they don't tear the buildings down they make the buildings look like they're the same buildings they just redo the inside yeah so it becomes invisible so you just go you just suddenly you don't know that the neighbor is gentrified but then you go man that's there sure are a lot more wine bars around here than they used to be but they don't look like that from the outside yeah and you go into them and they're just unbelievably renovated yes whoa what the fuck did you guys do? But they've kept the outsides in such a way that it's more invisible.

But yeah, there's the Google bus in San Francisco. All the Google-ites used to live in Mountain View down by Palo Alto. But then Google did this thing that's become very controversial. They have a free bus that will take you from certain San Francisco neighborhoods straight to Google so that the 25-year-old people who work at Google can live in the cool, hip city, but then get to work for free. But what that does is that every stop on the Google bus line, it changes the neighborhood because people want to live next to the Google bus line.

And so then suddenly neighborhoods that, like it would have been a poor neighborhood or a struggling neighborhood, people are buying the property there and renovating things and then pushing the other people out of the neighborhood so in a sense the google bus which is good because it keeps cars off the highway right and it also helps google out because people get on the bus and start working right away so when people go it's great we have free wi-fi no that's so you can work so it takes cars off the road it's ostensibly helps people it keeps people from living in places they don't want to live but it changes the neighborhood and kicks people out of the neighborhood. It's a very super controversial thing that San Francisco is dealing with right now.

San Francisco's wealth, for people who don't know, is in this weird, stupid category that doesn't even make any sense. I have some friends that live in Atherton, and they rent a house there, but the house is worth $15 million. And it's not worth $15 million. No, no, no. It's just not. You don't walk in and go, this is a $15 million house. Dude, you don't even walk in and go, this is a $1 million house. It's just a house.

It's a fucking normal. I mean, yes, it's worth. If I had to guess, like if you put it in a decent neighborhood in Studio City, it's a $2 million house. It's a very nice house yeah but it's 15 fucking million dollars yes it doesn't make any sense and i'm walking around i'm like how is this house worth 15 million dollars this doesn't make any sense to me it's a it's on it's got a normal backyard it doesn't have a view of the fucking the continental divide it doesn't have a wiffle ball stadium no it's crazy's crazy. It's crazy. The money there is so over the top

It's their concentrated wealth artificially inflates the values of everything around it Which means people who live there forever suddenly being told you can't live here anymore. They can't afford it You would have to have look 15 million dollars is like what is the fucking mortgage on something like that? Yeah, you can't yeah It's like that empty How much money do you have to have to keep a 15 million dollar house? You know, I think the mortgage would be like probably close to a hundred thousand dollars a month or something? How much money do you have to have to keep a $15 million house? I think the mortgage would be probably close to $100,000 a month. So that's $1,200,000 a fucking year in mortgage. Yes, yes.

That's insane. And you haven't, what if the sink breaks? You know, there's all the, you know, you can't, you know. Or the earth moves. Or the earth moves. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a big one. And all the insurance because your house is built on a fault

line you know so yeah then it has completely it's it's it's it sucks but there's no you it's capitalism you know capitalism unchecked is not necessarily the best thing you know what's the option though if you say capitalism unchecked it's capitalism sort of it will always capitalism i feel like unless you sort of go hey maybe, maybe we should keep an area for people who've lived here. We shouldn't allow people to get kicked out of their houses. Old people should never be kicked out of their house if they're paying the rent that they agreed to pay when they moved in 800 years ago. That's the things that have to be. People should be allowed to buy whatever property they want to buy that's for sale.

But it's also a thing where you shouldn't make it easier on those people and harder on the people who actually Don't have the ability to go live somewhere else Yeah It gets really tricky when they run out of places they can go to too because when you're especially get a rent control type situation Yeah, once if they boot you out of that good fucking luck find a place for 800 bucks a month No, and else and and and as fear if you're an old person, you know You're you don't know your family may not live in the area, and you have to go. Suddenly, you're moving all your shit?

Yeah. Who wants to do that? My mom lives in Bloomington, Indiana. She pays $600 a month, I think, for a two-bedroom townhouse. Wow. Yeah. And it's not nice, but for $600 a month, it's nice. Right.

And I think about that, and there's no way anywhere in the Bay Area that she could ever – we talk about her moving out there, and I'm like, I'm not making that FX money anymore. We have to figure out – I've got to get something else going before we can move you out here, because you're not going to find anything for $600 a month. Berkeley's nice, though. I like Berkeley. Berkeley is nice. It's real calm.

It's an interesting sort of environment. It's a super lefty, very hippie environment, but I like that. It's also very sort of young and a little super lefty very hippie environment but it's also it's also very sort of young and a little bit gutter punk too it's like you it's funny like if you go down by the downtown berkeley bart station it is very gutter punk and like sort of kids spare changing and you know it's a very sort of it's it's a place that those people hang out and i was down there with my daughter pushing the stroller and i felt like the weirdo like the guy pushing the baby stroller like where'd that guy get a baby from? Oh, that's weird.

Is he selling it? Like I felt like I'm the weirdo. You guys are on the streets. Well, San Francisco and the Bay Area itself is so accepting of like homeless people. It's weird. It's so much fun. I forgot how many, like living in New York for two years. New York, people think New York has a homeless problem.

It's like, no, you guys have about 12 dudes. I met them all while I was there. They're all very nice. But like San Francisco, it's thick with it, the Bay Area, because it's temperate. And we have social services for those people. And that is a good thing. And I lived in a neighborhood where I knew all the homeless people. And they were all pretty cool.

There was rarely a time where I had a problem with any of them. And they just do their thing. and you know it's also great the hidden benefit of homeless people when you walk out of in san francisco there's a culture if you walk out of a restaurant you have leftovers and you don't want to eat them you just put them on a trash can and you blink and they're gone right and you feel like you did something yeah i'm a good person whereas it's not that culture i'm glad to be back in that culture. You feel like I've done a good thing. I'm a charitable individual because I didn't finish my spaghetti. That's funny. Do you think that, well, I think the real issue is a lot of these people are like, they

have mental issues. Yes. And the mental health care in this country just doesn't, it's not up to snuff. I mean, these people are just not being taken care of the way a culture should probably look after its citizens. Well, yeah, and I think, I don't know for sure, but from what I heard in the Bay Area, is when Reagan was governor, he opened up the doors in the hospital.

It wasn't just when he was governor, when he was president. When he became president, he changed what the requirements are. And said, oh, you guys could feed yourself? You could put a fork to your mouth? Oh, yeah, get the fuck out of here oh yeah you're free you're free yeah mental health issues are serious and and it's and forget homeless people america's probably number one issue is mental health issues it's a big one i mean you know if the when when we go to take it back to the football player thing the nfl rookie symposiums that involve sitting down with a therapist and talking about uh okay you're about to make a lot of money and you've had everything in your life,

but let's try to figure out what, what in your past is going to lead you to make bad decisions in the future. That's all well and good. But the reality is you're never going to be able to change anybody out of a fucking conversation. The reality of being a guy who's poor to being a guy who's a fucking NFL superstar making millions of dollars. Boy,

what a transition. I don't mean one conversation. I mean like conversation. Constant. Yeah, I feel like, I actually feel like every black person in America, I'll take those reparations, free therapy. Just give every black person in America a free therapy session once a week for the rest of their life. It will change America.

White people need therapy, too. Yeah, I know, but I can't speak for you people. I'm just speaking for you. Wow, how dare you. You people. Now it's you people. Yeah, I know, but I'm just... Everybody needs something. I can't speak for you people. I'm just speaking for you. How dare you? You people. Now it's you people. Yeah, that's how it works. Yeah.

I'm married to one of you people, so I can say that. Good for you. Yeah. Thank God someone's doing it. Yeah. I think also the real problem with NFL players, the unaddressed problem of mental health, is also the fucking concussions. Yeah.

You know, one thing about concussions is it creates depression and it makes guys way more susceptible to being impulsive violence more and you're also you're so used to a violent world a world of constant collisions and explosions and pushing people off you and screaming at people on the line and and and that world it's definitely it's difficult to transition between that world and the calm world of domestic living. And I think that's true. Sometimes when people say that, they make it sound like that's an excuse for domestic abuse. That like, well, these are violent men in a violent game.

And I feel like, yeah, that's true, but they still have to be human beings outside of that. They can't take it. No doubt. And I don't know the challenge of that. I'm not saying it's easy, but I certainly feel like we have to you still have to walk around in society you know unless we would we just house nfl players on a separate property and you know like in this sort of keep them away from general population but i think it's something that the people that are involved in the sport from high school to college coaches to everyone it's

something that's not addressed but it's one of the most difficult aspects of competitive athletic sports combat sports as it were yeah i consider football combat sport absolutely you know i mean those guys are fucking running at each other full clip if that's not combat what the fuck is it absolutely no absolutely yeah so i think that just the realities of dealing with being a combat athlete or any sort of explosive athlete you're dealing with physical contact combat athlete or any sort of explosive athlete. You're dealing with physical contact on a regular basis. Call it whatever you want.

It's hard to be a functional member of a calm, staid, normal society on top of doing that at the same time. Yeah, and just especially like you're saying. To me, I always think about the fact that these guys, again, it's like the professional athletes have been since high school, now since seventh or eighth grade, been sort of the rules have been changed for them. Yes. And they've been coddled and you don't have to go to class. Athlete privilege. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't have to go to class. You don't have to do these things. And so sometimes they don't get the life skills that a regular person would get because they've been sort of segregated from regular society. And you give somebody a million dollars and tell them that they're the best and like the same thing. I mean, I feel the same way about comedy. Sometimes I come off stage after a good set. I feel like I am the best thing this world has ever seen. Well, that's definitely an issue with like sitcom stars.

Yeah, that's a big issue, man. I've been around people that like run their own shows. They have their own sitcom. They're yelling at the producer and yelling at the other actors and yelling at everyone and i mean there's it's there's a hundred stories of like you know roseanne when she was running the roseanne show brett butler when she was on grace under fire it was like you can go on and on and on there's a million different stories that have to do with people that become the star of a show it's the kamau bell show yeah i mean everybody shut the up that's my child well i'm sure if we brought stories that have to do with people that become the star of a show. It's the Kamau Bell Show.

Everybody shut the fuck up. This is my show. Well, I'm sure if we brought in some of the staff from Totally Biased, they would tell you stories about me like that. You know, and not that I, it's when you are put in a position where you're the focus of everybody's attention for all day long, every day. I can say it tweaks your head.

Like it tweaked my head in a way that I certainly was not, I don't think I Brett Butler did ever. I don't think I Roseanne in a way that I certainly was not. I don't think I Brett Butler'd it ever. I don't think I Roseanne'd it. And maybe I should have sometimes. Because I think sometimes you have to sort of go, everybody pay attention. But I certainly was not the best version of myself. And that's one thing that when I left, I felt like, all right, I can return back to that dude who got the show in the first place. Well, also a producer who comes up with a wacky idea that make would make you look bad

It doesn't hurt him if you if he talks you into doing this wacky idea and you like this wacky idea sucks No, no, no, listen. We talked this through just give it a shot. Come on We're gonna let you do that thing on rape jokes We'd like to do this thing where you you know, you put fucking blackface on. Yeah You do it and it doesn't work you look like a fucking idiot yes they don't feel anything they don't and then nothing I think there's also this thing where people think that there's a like people I think there's this weird thing in the entertainment issue now where some people like they still don't get the internet and they go well you like it used to be Johnny Carson on tonight's show and did a

stupid thing that made he feel stupid nobody ever could even you didn't see it again yeah it was gone it was in the annals of time but i'm like no this exists forever like if you make me do something stupid that i don't like to do i will be hearing about it for the rest of my life on some level yeah no doubt no doubt and i and i think that's the thing you're saying about like it just becomes this thing where where it's a sea change you know it's also this different time. They haven't caught up to the reality of it yet. One of the things about your show is you had a late night show,

but late night shows have become, they have this sort of symbiotic relationship with the internet now because one of the big things is getting a clip that people find about online and they Facebook it back and forth to each other and they go, oh, listen to each other and they go, oh, listen to this cool, funny thing that Conan did. Or look at this skit. Yeah.

And that becomes a great way to get people aware of the show. So it's almost like the time that it's on is not nearly as important as the fact that it's being made. Yes. And what I ran into on my shows, because I didn't grow up wanting to because I read I've read both the late-night books that Bill Carter wrote all those dudes grew up wanting to be late-night talk show hosts like Conan and Kimmel and they all kids Letterman

was their hero and Carson was their hero I didn't grow up that way I grew up Chris Rock was my hero you know to me like I want to be a stand-up and he had a show on HBO then I was like I want it but it wasn't nobody thought it was a late-night show is the Chris Rock show on hbo that i was like i want but it wasn't nobody thought it was a late night show it's the chris rock show right i mean right stewart i like stewart like that's hits the john stewart show it's not a late night talk show but once i got put in that world suddenly there was this thing about like do you have any famous friends we could put on here who could come on here like the way that fallon does a thing with justin timberlake and that it's like fallon was on snl for eight years. His Rolodex is filled

with everybody. I was in the Bay Area. I don't have the ability to reach out to those people. You're hanging out near a meth sign. Yeah, exactly. I was out going,

man, I'm not going to do crystal meth anymore. I'll call the guy from the poster. I'll call the Asian twink from the poster to come on the show. You've got to be careful.

You can't say twink. Andy Cohen got in trouble for saying twink. Well, I certainly, I feel like I'm calling him that because they were portraying him as that way. I'm not saying that all Asians are twink. And you know Andy Cohen got in trouble for saying twink? Oh, is that? Well, I certainly, I feel like I'm calling him that because that's the, they were portraying him as that way. I'm not saying that all Asians are twinks. The term, twink, you're not allowed to use it anymore.

Well, okay, I'll pull back on that one. They've decided. You gotta pull back on twink. Is it okay for me not to say that one? The guy, the head of Bravo, who's a gay guy. Oh, yeah, no, yeah, yeah. He got in trouble for saying someone's a perfect twink. It's preposterous.

Well, it's, it's again, it's everybody seeing everybody's shit it used to be that you could only see you only saw your shit and the shit you interested in so yeah and when you're the head of a network it's a totally different deal you know what i mean it's not like i said it and somebody may tweet at me and tell me i have to say and i'm like oh but i'm not responsible for billions of dollars if someone does tweet you and tells you not retweet the shit out of that what do you you mean? To let people know? Look at this. Talk to this guy. Let people react.

The thing I like to do when people say shitty things to me that I think are actually just shitty and not helpful, I've turned a few people. I've made people apologize. Really? Yeah, just out of sheer Aikido, taking their energy and putting it in the wall and then bringing them back.

Do you want to do it again? And then we just put it back in the wall and then they go, yeah, you're right. You're a pretty good guy. I was probably out of line. That's my favorite thing to do is to turn people on Twitter. Don't you think that a lot of people are doing it just to get your attention, though? They absolutely are. But that's why I think it's fun if you can actually make them feel bad for getting your attention.

But not from calling them, not from yelling at them but from taking like their energy and sort of like actually sometimes people say obnoxious shit and you actually treat it like it's serious and go well that's you know and they go no I'm just you're just no I'm trying to listen what you say like they and they get frustrated because you're not mad right and I like to not that I do this it's like when I'm on the road and by myself it's like all right let's uh it's not I'm not yelling at them I'm fucking with them back in a way that they don't realize that you should be mad. Well, now they know.

Yeah, now they know your strategy. They're going to come up with some fucking new angles of attack. We'll see what happens. I'm ready for it. Or I'll just ignore it. I'll just ignore it, yeah. Yeah, some new matador tactics you're going to have to come up with. Yeah, dealing with people online is amazing.

It's an amazing thing that no one was prepared for. No. Interacting with people on message boards, on Twitter, on Facebook, on all these different... If we had this at the beginning of the United States of America, we wouldn't be in the future right now. We'd still be in wagons and buggies. I just feel like it is slowing down progress by the time that we're all spending arguing about bullshit online. Don't you think, though, that, look, I don't agree with a lot of the social justice warriors and their tactics and the professional victim mentality that a lot of them portray. But in forcing the combat.

I feel like that's two different groups of people. I feel like social justice people and professional victims. I just think that's, isn't that two different groups of people? It can be. Okay. All right. The point is, like, really whiny overly sensitive super progressive aggressive people i think though that it opens up the dialogue and forces people to even even if you're communicating about it in

a way where you're defending your position that that conversation gets like a perfect one a perfect subject is uh this subject is coming up a lot lately uh where a lot of feminists are trying to push the idea that if a person has sex with someone that's been drinking that it's rape they're saying always can't yes they're saying you can't consent including men they're saying a woman having sex with a drunk man she's raping that man because he he's not able to consent because he's drinking um i think it's ridiculous i think there's some of us wouldn't be think it's ridiculous. I think there's... Some of us wouldn't be here without some fucking sex.

Not only that, there's a giant spectrum of what intoxication is. Also, it takes away a lot of responsibility where you are forced to be responsible for your actions if you're driving. You're forced to be responsible for your actions if you engage in a violent activity. But somehow or another, if you're drinking and someone has sex with you you were raped the same amount of intoxication that you would be liable for driving liable for violent actions now you're not liable for your actions it's it seems ridiculous and it also it's it discredits women in a lot of ways because you're saying that they they're not capable of forming their own decisions and deciding that they want to have a couple of

drinks and fuck some guy because you know women that they want to have a couple of drinks and fuck some guy. Because, you know, women do that. And sometimes you need a couple of drinks before you fuck some guy. Yeah. Because otherwise you're not going to want to fuck that guy. Exactly. And it's fun. And it's Friday evening and you had a hard week.

Exactly. He's not the good looking guy you thought you'd meet at the bar. Yeah. Yeah. And they're having a good time. I mean, it's not always a negative thing. And that's the problem with broad strokes like painting with broad strokes But in introducing this dialogue and discussion and making people angry about this debate. They are bringing up the very real

Situation of people drugging people and getting people drunk and having sex them which is disgusting Yes, and is rape and is immoral. Yes So I think even in like when they push the needle way too far to the left, it balances out a little bit. That's the point is that sometimes you can't. It's like the thing where if you go, hey, can we talk about rape? Nah. Can we just for a second talk about it? Nah, no.

We need to talk about rape! Okay, okay. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to, you can't. And I think this is certainly as, the culture of oppressed people, the culture of being oppressed in America is that people don't hear you when you ask permission for things. Right, right.

That people don't hear you when you say, I'd like to talk about racism in America and just see if we can finally, nobody wants to hear that. So you have to, I love when there's people sometimes so far, because the right is filled with people who are so far on the right and don't, and are always like barking and people can get a lot of attention. The left has historically been ashamed of that. Like, we don't want to get too loud and we right and and so for me it's like we need a couple of those people who are who who make who who show us where the middle should be you know who was like so far okay we don't want to do that right but

like you said the pendulum has to be pushed that far to get it back to the middle yeah no doubt and i well i don't know if it has to be but it aids in that movement i think i mean this is an example a little example of it like people will say that occupy wall street didn't accomplish anything however we didn't talk about the words income inequality ever in this country until occupy wall street well it introduced the phrase the one percent%. And so, people say it didn't accomplish anything, but by going to the parks and sitting out and getting your bongos out and

knitting for justice or whatever and feeding people and giving out books, now that is in the, people will say, people on the right will say income inequality and the 1%, not realizing that they've adopted the speech of the left, you know? And so, that means sometimes you have to have a tantrum to get some attention. And I think coming from historically black people, we are used to like, okay, we need to have a tantrum.

Sometimes that tantrum is inventing rock and roll. And sometimes it's a million man march, you know? It's just that's the nature of getting attention in America as an oppressed group. Well, it's also the first time ever where people can uniquely start a movement online this can they don't need like an office somewhere where they hire a bunch of people or they don't need to know anybody they don't need to see anybody personally who they're who is helping to make the movement happen yeah i mean this is happening all the time this climate march on uh on new york city they fucking clogged up the streets man yeah yeah and on the climate

nobody is that's not a sexy issue nobody's like you know that's not but they got the word out and made people think it's important which i believe it is but it's also a thing where it's like i'm as a person who's like i have other issues that i'd like to see the streets clogged up with you know but okay that's i'm glad we're getting the streets clogged yeah well it's a fascinating time when you see these movements and you see how big they are. And right now, nonviolent and peaceful. But the government, be sure, is aware that this could also be a large protest that turns violent, like an overthrow the government type protest. I mean, look, this guy that just fucking broke into the White House the other day.

Yeah. The guy who popped the fence. Oh, man. Had like 900 rounds of ammo in his car. Yeah. And duct tape and fucking. And just climbed the fence and ran. I mean, I hate when it's like, it wasn't even like an Ocean's Eleven plan.

It was like, I'm just going to climb the fence and run and get to the door. And he got all the way to the fucking door. How many, it's so hard to feel like, how many, what is happening? There's multiple levels of security at the White House. It's not just one guy who's like, I didn't see him. Right. It's not the gre security at the White House. It's not just one guy who's like, I didn't see him. It's not the greeter at Walmart. How many levels of security do I have to break down for him to get into the White House?

And why is that happening? They suck. Exactly. And why do they suck now is my question in the era of the black president. Why does this have to be when they suck? Oh, they sucked in the era of the Bush presidency. Yeah, but I just admit. Did the same thing happen?

A guy broke into the White House and got on the White house along when the bush uh when bush was president as well playing into the white house right no that was the pentagon when what are you talking about when like a small plane like not like a real long time ago though wasn't it when was that or google that shit i don't know yeah but a plane is different than climbing the fence and running yeah getting in the front door to me the problem with that that is there's no sophistication to that. That should be the easiest thing. Unleash the hounds. All right, we're done with that.

Yeah, well, they'd have to be on point 24-7 looking out for any... There was another woman that didn't... But aren't they supposed to? Aren't they supposed to? Yeah. Didn't a woman get shot recently? Oh, really? Same thing?

Yeah. Didn't a woman get shot? She showed up at the white house in her car and broke through a barrier like i think they you said they have to be on point 24 hours i think they're supposed to be yes i think that's the gig but the point is that these movements that you see like in new york city where they're clogging the streets yeah that could easily happen at the white house yeah that's fucking terrifying for them if a million people just stormed the White House and tore it to the ground, you know, stomped to death, all the fucking Secret Service agents were holding their heads up to the camera.

Like, that shit is not outside the realm of possibility if everything goes horribly wrong. Well, no, not with, I mean, you know, ISIS is doing a good job of recruiting people right now with some Hollywood-style videos, and, you know, if somebody in America picked up that ball, you know, I think that's what the White House is afraid of right now with some hollywood style videos and you know if somebody in america picked up that ball you know i think that's what the white house is afraid of right now is that clearly isis or isol whatever you call it is recruiting from here yeah it's not a middle east not just not very many but at least it's like yeah it's it's stirring the pot here in a way nobody thought al-qaeda was recruiting from it was like oh gonna get american people to do it every now and again there was one but this is like actually there's a sense that they are recruited that like there

was that in that video that they released there's the one shot of like a cell phone video of somebody driving past the White House and shooting a video of the White House, which everybody can do. But the fact it was in the ISIS video is like, oh, shit, it implies something. Yeah. That is not. But, yeah, I think we could do that. But until we the only way that happens in America is you have to make it seem legitimate and you have to make it sexy. Occupy Wall Street became sexy for a few months. We need like an ice bucket challenge.

Exactly. Take over the government. Yeah, we need an ice bucket challenge. I am going to scale the White House and I challenge – Ninety-four. A man killed in suicidal plane crash in the White House. So that was Clinton. Yeah.

Wow. Skidded across the South Lawn. Crazy fuck. Yeah. Goofy bastard. Look at him, his porn mustache. Yeah, a plane is different, though, because you can't see. It's like, oh, there's a plane coming.

It's coming at us. But a dude who's climbing the fence. That just seems so last minute and not. Low tech. Yeah, that's not well thought out. That should not be a thing that he got to the White House door. It should have been, I'm over the fence.

Oh my God, the dogs are eating me. Oh, well, this didn't go well. It reminds me of that scene in Casino when they talk about the most, or Ocean's Eleven, the most successful bank robbery or Vegas heist robberies and it's only people who got to the door.

Right. Like, you know, that's what should happen. It should be a thing where you get inside. Well, there's more money in Vegas than there is in guarding the White House. Yeah, certainly. The mob, despite its quiescence, still runs Vegas.

The mob is not running the White House anymore. If they were, it would be a tighter ship. I'm all for that. And more consequences. Yes, yeah. They wouldn't kill the guy on the spot. They'd drag him into the house first. Yeah, they'd talk to him.

They'd have a conversation with him first. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I don't think in our lifetime we're gonna i don't know if we're gonna ever see like some sort of a crazy million group of people that are storming the government like we saw in egypt like we saw in libya i don't know i don't know i don't i think it we would have to really get to a strange place to make that happen. Yeah. To get that many people on the same page who also have that kind of, because even the Tea Party and the further right versions of that aren't doing that. They have all the guns, but they're not prepared to do that with them.

And also, there's no, I mean, besides September 11th, there's no notable attacks on America in America. There's Pearl Harbor, which is sort of America. Sort of America, yeah. Flying five hours in a plane over the ocean doesn't really seem like America in America. There's Pearl Harbor, which is sort of America. Sort of America, yeah. Flying five hours in a plane over the ocean doesn't really seem like America to me. Although I love Hawaii. But the difference between that and September 11th, like September 11th, like, okay, this is actually happening in America. If more things happen in America and we think it's a direct result of mismanagement, misgovernment,

you know, corruption, what have you, and people die and, you know, Chicago's blown off the face of the map, some ugly shit could go down. Yeah, but it's, yeah, but you're talking about like a post-apocalyptic, you know, you know, like a Blade Runner type of, like, that's not, that's not something that we're, we're several steps away from, there's several steps away from. We are several steps, but that's one of the reasons why people will never give up their fucking guns. It's one of the reasons why people think, like, this shit could always happen. I want to be locked and loaded with a bunch of water in my basement, some potatoes on standby.

Some potatoes on standby. Bags of rice and potatoes. With the thing where I can clean my urine so I can drink it. Yeah. Super Brita filter. When is that? I mean, I'm not trying to take away people's guns away, but when has a cache of guns stopped the government from taking anybody down if they wanted to take them down?

Depends. Depends on how many guns and how many people. But I'm saying we haven't seen it happen. You know, when they decide to come get you, you know, Ruby Ridge or Waco, they go, get the tank with the fire. That'll stop the semi-automatic machine guns. Well, he wasn't trying to take down the government. He was trying to bang everybody's kids yeah but that's what i'm saying

when they're and that thing they he wasn't even doing things or necessarily he wasn't killing people in there they were just like get the tank with the fire that'll settle this that'll take care of this yeah well you can't fence in your town and then like have tanks and guns and ammo and the government's like that seems a little too much like a small country you fuck and i'm not for the government ruling everything i just think that the thing that you see in egypt and in the ukraine is that if people storm the streets it doesn't matter how many tanks you have that if people just go and i always say that like the problem with american protests is they have an end time and it's posted on facebook we're gonna be in the streets until 5.30. Whereas in the Ukraine and Egypt, they're like, no, we're just going to stay. We're just not going

anywhere. And I know that Americans have that kind of follow through. Eventually you're like, I'd like to get home and watch some Netflix. Yeah, Walking Dead is on tonight. I'm going to order takeout. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got to pick up my kid from soccer practice. We're soft as fucking baby shit, man.

Isn't that the goal of being an American? Being allowed to be as soft as baby shit isn't that the why we why people struggle to get here why kids are streaming across the border because it's hard living here well that's also why we gotta fight terrorism over there before it doesn't come over here so you can't avoid your chinese food you can enjoy your soccer practice yeah yeah exactly yeah that's why we need guns that's why we need to get we gotta understand the second amendment son second amendment yeah i'll show it to you it's written on animal skins right here yeah yeah god wrote the second amendment i don't think that's how that worked the shit was written in the 1700s and everybody's clinging to it that's the hilarious thing about the constitution in general that is written like this is unconstitutional yes but the fucking constitution is old as shit well as i

understand it as i was taught in uh in uh high school american history class when they wrote it they were like this will just set the country up for about 20 years and then we'll come back and look at this right like this is just the we're done with the british we got to make sure they don't come back so we need militias just in case they show up again but this is just to get us started right and it became sacrosanct it became like this is the it became another chapter of the bible well once the people who wrote it are dead you don't ever want to fuck with it because then it's like a religious doctrine yeah and that's the problem is that it the religious doctrine religious doctrines aren't religious doctrines. Yeah. They're all written by a dude named Jeff.

You know what I mean? Someone. Paul. Somebody who's like, yeah, yeah. Somebody's like, I just want to, you know. It's like Chris Rock. Great Chris Rock bit about it. People said God said it because if you say I said it, people don't listen.

Yeah. So, yeah. Pork will kill you. They don't listen. God said pork will kill you. Okay, we'll stop eating pork. You know. People like to be told. They like authority.

And I'm not, and I say this as somebody who's not, I'm not an atheist. I'm not anti-religion. I certainly think religion has done a lot of shitty things, but I'm not sitting here as an atheist going, I don't believe in any of it. What are you if you're not an atheist? Do you consider yourself an agnostic? Are you religious? No, I'm not religious. I mean, I grew up.

Are you Christian? I feel like I come from a Christian base. Like I was black church, Methodist church, Baptist church. So I can't help but retreat to that sometimes when the shit hits the fan. Oh, Jesus help. But I don't expect him to walk through the door. You know what I mean? Like I'm not, I don't believe that there is a guy in heaven looking down on me. But I do like to think of the universe as being a place where if you live a good life and have order, that things will work out for you.

And so – and certainly I will retreat to – I like to think that – it makes me feel comforted to go, thanks, God. But I'm not going before we get started, let's have a prayer. You know what I'm saying? It's culturally – God has been cultured. I've been cultured with God. And it seems to have worked out, but I don't want to go to church. So you have a mild form of Christianity. I have a mild form.

So it's like herpes that you don't need to take Valterx for. Yeah, it's exactly what it is. You just let it dry up on its own. It's just fine. It doesn't need to take. Yeah, it's exactly what it is. I have. I just let it dry up. It's just fine. It doesn't usually hurt anybody. I let everybody know. It's just. And I always say that because I feel like I can have the atheism discussion and not feel threatened by who don't tell me there's not a God because it breaks my whole. No, this is my own.

In the same way that some people, their God is, you know, Game of Thrones. They think that's the thing, you know, that we all of us have gods that we've defined is like that I'm living my life comic-con is religion for people but and but we somehow if you actually say really dude don't you just think is a gathering a fun gathering like but that's what religion started as it was just it was a way to centralize the community and get people on the same page about stuff and some of those things are moral and I get have you been to comic-con you must have i've been outside of comic-con i've never gone into comic-con if you went into comic-con you wouldn't ask this question i went there i

went in there it's it's for real like people this is like people's lives well it's isn't it because they get the freedom to have fun and be a freak because like most of the time society frowns upon you dressing like an anime character most of the time You can't be a furry you can't be Iron Man You can't you can't just be there and be hanging out with people having a good time Well, I think it is that but it's also those people they they go there because that's the place where they're permitted to have it But they're living it the whole year. Mm-hmm. Sometimes. They're just just like a furry in their house You know what I'm saying? But then that's here they go. It's like, you know, it's like Christmas

We're allowed to hang the lights and do all the shit that and it's just fun but then some people also carry they have a cross on their wall you know i don't think there's much difference ultimately between a spider-man poster on your wall if you've been across on your wall if that's the thing that you're focused on you know that's hilarious like spider-man is your god yes there's certainly and i live in san Francisco where people, I have lived in there. People are hyper-focused about their version of their life. Like I want to live my life this way. I want to go to this coffee shop and I want to,

and I, and I go to this bar and I, and I do leather things on the weekend and I go to the Folsom street fair. And that, and that to me, it's like, that's your religion. That's the thing that makes you feel better about the world. And that's how you put order on the world,

but you're not. And your God may be, uh, that makes you feel better about the world, and that's how you put order on the world. But you're not – and your God may be that I'm going to live the best gay lifestyle I have or that I'm going to be the best – whatever. We all have gods. We just don't want to put that word on them. So for me, my God is actually – I put the word God on there because I don't want to be a hypocrite and be like – basically, when I met my wife, she was in religious studies major. She was in graduate school for that. And I was like, I did the thing that everybody says.

I'm not religious. I'm spiritual. She's like, that's full of shit. What do you believe? And I was like, I guess I believe in God. But it's like if you say that, people start to get quiet. Like, you guys are getting quiet right now. I'm letting you talk.

No, no, I know. I'm just fucking around. I just don't see the connection between Spider-Man and God. I think Spider-Man is something you enjoy. God is something you believe in that doesn't necessarily have any basis in fact or in provable. You can't prove the existence of God. You can't. There's nothing that you can point to in science that says, well, we can't explain this.

We're pretty sure that what this is is god's work but there's a i mean and i certainly there's that's the thing and i feel very comfortable and not because i'm not trying to convince you guys uh-huh i feel very comfortable not being able to prove the thing that is that i sort of walk around with well listen you don't have to i mean it's a framework for you know moral judgments it's a framework for discipline it can give you sort of a path to lead your life in a positive manner there's nothing wrong with religion but it's not iron man but but i think i i believe that we all that there are things that we put in our and i'm not i'm not this isn't even

criticism it's just there are things that people put in their life like i don't believe in god and then you see that they spent what whatever you're spending the most time doing that you feel like is making you a better person, that's your God. That's your religion. We are inventing our own religion right now. Well, religion, maybe. Ideologies, religions, they're very similar

in a lot of ways. I feel like your religion is probably, you got a little MMA religion happening. You think so? I go to the gym, I work out, I'm bonding. This is my community i bond with these people i feel better because i come here there's a code of honor here and a code of ethics that if somebody violates we talk to that person about it or that that's that's and i'm not trying to make anybody feel but this is just my belief right i'm not trying to say it's

just we you have that life this is how i live my life and this is how i want to live my life it's just we've taken the god thing out of it because god because people fucked god people treated that i've turned that into a bad i've turned it into a shitty thing you know i'm not i will make fun of born-again christians all day long i'm not trying to say that that's the way to do it but for me i think because i grew up that way in the like there was a lot of church around my life i rejected the church but i also like to if i'm if i'm running for the bus and I get it sometimes I go Oh, thank God And I don't you know what I mean like and I just and I know that I'm but I don't expect out to be like I

Got you dog. I don't I don't expect to see the guy. Yeah, I see what you're saying Like it's just it's in me. It's a part of my it's a it's part of my ethnicity Well, it's black religion It could be empowering You know to have a belief and that belief doesn't necessarily have to be even based on fact in order for it to benefit you. No, no. And the problem is that if you go, this is what I believe, and I'm going to sit here until you two guys believe it. Well, not only that, like, guess what?

I can't disprove it either. The reality is I've seen way more fucked up shit doing psychedelic drugs than anybody has ever described in the bible yeah you know if if you go to heaven and it's just a guy with a harp and angels yeah and and saint peter's really at the pearly gates and the floor is made out of clouds yeah like that would be so normal in comparison to like a dmt trip like that shit would be like pretty mundane and i feel like people talk about proof all the time i don't know why this phone fucking works well they could figure that out they could figure out you just need to talk to someone educated but i but but nobody's going to explain to me in a way that i could take it apart and put it back together yeah they could it would just take a long time but that's what i'm saying

but i don't care i don't need to know do you understand what i'm saying i trust that there's people there's children in china who know what they're doing and they put the phone together right but if you wanted to chase that down to the very origins of the first seed that makes the first phone You could do that and I and the same way I don't have interest in doing that I don't have interest in convincing anybody else about my version of God like as I say on stage when I say God I picture a really old Denzel Washington with dreadlocks That's how it is in my head. That's how I feel about it. about uh didn't morgan freeman play god in the movie yeah and uh and george burns there's been a few old dudes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no mine is specifically denzel washington that's specifically specifically why denzel he's

like sort of i mean a friend of my time he's kind of like a surrogate dad like denzel washington i don't know him but in the movies there was a period of my life where like i felt like denzel was helping me figure out he's a he's the last black actor in Hollywood who is sort of carrying the baton for this is how to be a black man. You know what I'm saying? And that's an important thing to have in the black community, especially when you grow up. I know who my dad is. I've met him several times. No, I'm fucking around.

I used to visit him in the summer. But I didn't grow up with my dad in the house. And so I found surrogate dads in places in entertainment who I felt like, this is a person I should try to be like. Right, right, right. Bruce Lee was a surrogate dad of mine, you know, that just showed me that, again, helping me learn a moral code and giving me an example of how to be an adult and how to be a man. Yeah, I had the same, I had a martial arts instructor that did that for me. I had a martial arts instructor that did that for me i had a martial arts instructor who did it for me there there's a thing about movies and like having someone who maybe even is an unrealistic depiction of a human being like so moral and ethical and powerful and strong but

that that can be empowering if you want to be like denzel washington yeah no yes yeah you want to get some more coffee we'll make some more. Spend some more time. I'm sorry. Slap on a double screen and let's do this. This special magic coffee has got me rolling. It's good shit, dude. It's good shit.

I never thought too much about racism in movies or thought about black people being represented in movies until I went to see Planet of the Apes in a black neighborhood in Philly. And the first, the James Franco Planet of the Apes. And I was with my friend Tommy and his girlfriend Kate and we were in Philly for the UFC. And Friday night's the weigh-ins. So we do the weigh-ins on Friday and then we had Friday night off.

And so what do you want to do? Hey, Planet of the Apes is out. Let's go check it out. So we're in the hotel room. We got high as Jesus on the space shuttle. I mean, we went way too deep. We went way too deep. And then we went out to this movie theater.

And the closest movie theater was in this all black neighborhood in Philly. And so, I mean, all black. I mean, we were the only fucking white people. One of America's last few all black neighborhoods. But fun. Yeah. God damn, it was fun. But here's the thing, man.

When I was in that movie theater, I was acutely aware, first of all, that we were the only white people in there. And I was also acutely aware that every fucking ad for every preview, every movie, was white people. Yeah. It was all white people. And I was like whoa but being in that position like having that perspective of being a white person in an all-black movie theater i was like whoa and being high as fuck yes made me super sensitive to it and there was only one white guy that interacted with a black guy in all the previews and it was jonah hill in some fucking

goofy ass movie about playing a babysitter where he brings the kids and talks to this black doorman and he's talking to him in this like really fucking depressing slang yeah buddy you see oh it was so bad yeah and then the the black guy says to him, you're a bad motherfucker. I'm like, what? What world is this taking place in? And it was so bizarre. Then Planet of the Apes plays, and everyone in the movie is white except the bad guy, who's a black guy who fucking forces the drugs to get into the monkeys,

and then the monkeys go loose and take over the world. I'm like, whoa. This is real shit. Yeah yeah everybody should get that high every white person to get that high and go see and go live in the world because that's what it that's everything you said is like i'm like uh huh yes keeps yeah nothing not surprised well also that scenario that particular scenario was unique it was very unique because it was like the perfect storm of shitty preview after shitty preview and all of them with white people. Cameron, what's her name?

Cameron Diaz. Yeah, Cameron Diaz and oh my god, what are we going to do? How am I going to find a man? And the black people in the audience just stone face watching these previews, waiting. No one's laughing, as they shouldn't. There's the most depressing thing ever is when you go to the movies and the previews look like dog shit and someone's laughing out we gotta see that yeah yeah you see how melissa mccartney falls down

yeah oh she's hilarious she's big she's a big girl my favorite is when people funny when when when it's a stone face like that and then slowly people laugh at it like there Like, there's slowly the audience starts to, they're not laughing with it. They're laughing at it. That happens in San Francisco sometimes. People are like, they're actually like, no, we're laughing at you, movie. We're not laughing. We're not going to go see you. This is ridiculous bullshit.

You've put it before us. That is beautiful. That's when you know you're in a good neighborhood. Yeah. That's a good neighborhood to be in. Ironic laughter at the trailers. That's the crowds I want to perform and crowds laugh at the trailers ironically jonah hill see if you could find that fucking preview

jonah hill in the babysitter or something some shit like that yeah oh for me i remember the time i off i remember where i just felt like you just why did you just let me down it was steve martin in the movie with queen latifah and. And some sort of thing where she's the blah, blah, blah. And he's the blah, blah, blah. And together they got the blah. And the trailer is just her being a very outsized version of a black woman. And him being a very narrow version of a white guy. And in the middle of it, Steve Martin, one of the greatest comedians of all time.

Who was in the Comedy Hall of Fame. Does the thing where he walks through a black club all gang like sort of all gangstered out in like a jersey and he's walking like a quote-unquote black guy i'm like not you steve martin you're one of the greatest you probably have a mortgage yeah he's got a $50 house yeah that's the movie yeah see if you can find that video i got it right you got it let's we got gotta see this video because it's so fucking bad he's like the the wacky crazy babys and by the way i'm a jonah hill fan i think so i had i watched that in an all black movie theater stoned to the gills and i went whoa what a cartoonish buffoonish representation of black people and this is the

only one they get to see and the funny thing is is people say representation of black people and this is the only one they get to see and the funny thing is is people say why are black people or why are some black people so angry and i feel like we they didn't the people in that theater you think because we have to let shit wash over us or else we'll be angry all the time yeah and we will be outwardly like flipping tables all the time if we don't if we don't sort of go we just got to wait for planet of the apes we just got to let this wash over us we can't. We can't turn this into a change.org petition. We just got to let this go. Well, it's also you never dealing with things from a neutral point because you're dealing with things from the repercussions of all the other shit that you've seen already before that.

Yeah, and the thing is, as has been stated by many people, is that in this country, most people watching those trailers that you saw aren't going, these are a bunch of white people in these trailers. They're going, those are a bunch of people in these trailers but then if you show the trailer for you know friday after next then it's a bunch of black people in those trailers because white is considered to be normal in this country that's the white is the default it's like on the census which is if you pull the census form the first category when they on the race category the list of races is white so it's not alphabetical right it's just white okay white and then if you're not that what else are you and it's like white people are busy we gotta we gotta do you know so it's that white is considered the default and when people say things like

like i've talked about this before like people magazine is about white people for the most part but essence says it's a black magazine right you know it's it's very but what and i feel like white people one way to sort of put and I feel like white people, one way to sort of put less racism in the world is white people have to start putting white on their magazines. They have to start, if white people got more

comfortable with talking about their whiteness, it would make the rest of us not look crazy when we talked about our ethnicity. But sometimes when I go, as a black man,

people go, why do you have to? But white people can't. If white people talk about their ethnicity, if white people say, we're going to have the white actors awards, dude problem that shit would not fly because some white people

it wouldn't fly because white when people historically in this country when people identify themselves as white it's the clan or it's neo-nazis and i feel like good white people like yourselves have to have to take whiteness back thank you for including me in the group i appreciate that very much. No problem. You know what someone said to me also is that white power, like brown pride is a tattoo that Cain Velasquez has on.

Yeah. And nobody, I mean, Cain Velasquez is the heavyweight champion of the world. No one gives him a hard time for having brown pride tattooed on his chest because he's proud to be a Mexican. But if you had white pride tattooed on your chest,

that's a different animal. So I said this to my friend and he was like, yeah, but you know what? You could have Irish pride. And I was like, ooh, that's a different animal so i said this to my friend and he was like yeah but you know what you could have irish pride and i was like oh that's so true like you could have irish pride tattooed on your chest you know what the difference is well irish people have not been known to be like slave masters and not been known to be kkk members it's not like a traditional background for them it's it's all yeah and i think it's also it's about the there's a nationality there versus white white was an invented concept in this country you know what i mean like europe in europe

they don't they think racism they don't think racism exists in europe because it's all about that it's like the french hate the spanish right it's not they don't go the white so they think we don't have racism yeah but you still have nationalism weird shit yes and you and over there like it's okay to hate arabs that's different but but in this country white became this invented concept and the reason why white power is hard for people to take is because white people already got the power when he when kane velasquez velasquez has tattoos as brown pride it's because brown people don't feel like they've got enough power and it's a way to invoke a feeling of power and invoke the thing that brown people have been shit on and i'm going to take the power back black power came out of black people going we're tired of

being shit on so we're gonna say black power white power you you got it white people you got it you got it redundant fuck and so when the white people put white power on it feels like wait how much power are you gonna take you want more yeah it's like yeah just because then it becomes about we don't want you in our schools we don't want black people in our schools or brown people in our schools like these can we go to can we or we don't want you in our schools. We don't want black people in our schools or brown people in our schools. Like, can't we go to – or we don't want you drinking out of our water fountain. You know what I mean? It becomes this – the power goes so crazy. But I believe, and I've got a kid who's half white, that if white people, good white people, actually reclaimed words like white power and white pride for the sake of good things –

because there's things you can be proud to be white about. and white pride for the sake of good things. Because there's things you can be proud to be white about. And it became something that wasn't about neo-Nazis or swastikas, that it would change the race discussion in this country. That if white people could sit around and go, I'm proud to be white, without us going, uh-oh, something bad's about to happen. No one would be able to do that. Because if you even say that at all, you can't.

It's a pendulum shift. I'm trying to push it. I'm trying to swing it. I don't think that's ever going to fly. I really don't. I have to yell out here on the edges so that in the middle people can go, okay, we're not going to do that, but let's at least talk about racism. You know what I mean? I think you could do it as a sketch and make a bunch of buffoonish, cartoonish white people who are, golly, we're proud to be white. We love black folks.

I love Tyler Perry. It's not about loving black. It's about loving white things. It's about like, I love Mumford and Sons. That's white as fuck. Exactly. That's not about loving black. It's about loving white things. It's about like, I love Mumford and Sons. That's white as fuck. Exactly. That's too white for me. That hurts me.

They went so white, they went back in time. You notice that? Mumford and Sons, they're essentially white when slavery was legal. That's what they're doing. They're drinking out of mason jars. They all have fucking chaps on. They're plantation white. What are you guys doing?

You're wearing vests. You're pretending you're the outlaw Josie Wales? Like, what the fuck are you doing? But it's very authentic to a version of whiteness. There's nothing about Mumford & Sons that feels black. No, it's very white. Or it feels like white Americana. Not even, man.

It's a new white. It's a new white that's an old white. That's what I mean. It's a throwback to the... It's like retro to a time when, like, why are we going back to that time? Yeah, there's no black people in those videos, are there there is there black people in Mumford and Sons videos? Can you google that? People in a Mumford and Sons video

Could you imagine if they just start with them and find out can I be a black guy in your video if a bunch of? People came to a black movie theater to see a black movie and they just started playing Mumford and Sons videos before We started people would white people just patiently like all right started playing Mumford & Son videos before the movie started. People would, black people would just patiently like, all right, let's just, this is, we'll just wait for the movie to start. Just keep it,

keep it together. Like think of like a movie with Denzel Washington and Morgan Freeman and just, just loaded up with the greatest produced by Oprah Winfrey, directed by

African American stars ever in a fucking giant blockbuster, like Quentin Tarantino style movie. Just gigantic, huge fucking blockbuster movie. But before the movie starts,

everybody gets excited about it. Place is packed with black... They just play Mumford & Sons video after Mumford & Sons video. And they troll these people. Like, they don't get it.

They play like a half an hour of Mumford & Sons before the movie starts. And it just fades to black and then a new one fades up into a new video. Oh, God. You should do that. You should do that for a fucking show, man.

You should do that for a show. Just troll the people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My God, that would be incredible. I mean, it's a funny thing. It reminds me of one time I was watching. I was flipping past the channels and I flipped past the country music channel. And I stopped because it was a video that was playing on

the country music channel except there was black people in it oh and i was like yeah i said i was like whoa like what's going on here like why there's black people in this country video that's exactly it and i thought that was so funny i'm like oh since a black guy's singing it we can throw a black couple in this country music video it was was like, good for you, Darius Rucker. He's tapped into it, man. Yeah, because he tried to release an R&B album, and black people went, nah, Hootie. Really? Yeah, that's the funny thing. I mean, I think he's authentic to himself, but

after Hootie and the Blowfish, he released an R&B album for black people. What are you showing us, Jamie? It's Mumford & Sons Love for the Light. Oh, look at that. It's actually Idris that that's Nelson Mandela oh I don't know

if this counts technically that doesn't count that doesn't count at all this is from the movie Mandela black James Bond doesn't count as an average black person

get that fucking shit off our screen yeah although I like you know he's a good looking guy he's a great actor and all that

but see how dare you how dare you well how about a big movie that he's playing in he's playing a fucking guy who's like a serial killer and uh he goes after uh black women like he he knocks on the door in the middle of the night tells her that his uh car broke down what an awkward time to release that movie yeah ridiculous yeah that yeah i don't yeah i don't that's why i'm

not trying to be an actor yeah he's not a star in a movie where, like, he gets the girl. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. No, because black guys got to, we always got to, we always got to do, we always got to go a different way. You know, because if anybody should be playing a black superhero, it should be that dude. But no, how about the serial killer first? Well, Denzel Washington got to play, he's the closest to that. He got to play, like, real superstar-type roles

that, like, you would maybe see, like, someone else, like George Clooney or Brad Pitt. But even he sort of never, he doesn't do, like, romantic comedies. He's clearly doing a very specific, he's very hemmed into the thing, whether he's, I'm sure he's choosing it,

but he's not doing, like, you don't see him in, like, a full-on broad comedy. You don't see him doing, like, Nor do you see Georgeorge clooney though you don't but yeah but george clooney always gets the girl right and denzel washington is in these movies where like for example he was in the pelican brief and it's one of those movies where he should him and julie roberts should end up together banging and they don't they don't which is like and i don't know whose decision that is but it's like george clooney no matter what movie did it ends up at the end with him

kissing the girl and then the credits rolling that's true is, but it's like George Clooney, no matter what movie it is, it ends up at the end with him kissing the girl and then the credits rolling. That's true. Whereas Denzel, it's like there's always a reason. He doesn't always work out for him. He usually gets killed at the end. He has discipline and he can keep the pussy away from him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's very disciplined.

Martial artist or something. Yes. Yeah. There's a trend going on now, though, to sort of avoid what he's trying to do. What about Will Smith? What about him? He's in a bunch of movies where he gets to do that because he's this post he's post Denzel okay yeah that's that's the that's the that's the thing he gets to do the things that Denzel either doesn't want to do or can't do because I feel like he can he

does romantic comedies too though he did like hitch yeah he gets to do like Denzel is the guy who's still holding the Sidney Poitier baton you might want this and it was like, we're good. Yeah, he's 100% serious and legit. Even though he's funny. I mean, he's very funny in movies, but he's not. There's clearly a thing that he's walking a path that I don't want to be caught up in a thing where he's still holding the baton of blackness in a way or another that people after him don't have to hold it. What I was talking about.

Denzel's not going to do a movie where he, or you play the guy who beats up the black women. He's not going to do that movie unless that dude gets murdered the guy who beats up the black women. But you know, he's not going to do that movie unless that dude gets murdered by Oprah at the end. But wait a minute, he's an American gangster. And yes,

and he always, that guy ends up at the end. If you notice, whenever he does the movie about the guy who's a villain, he either gets killed or he ends up at the end broken.

Right. He never does a thing where that guy goes out on top or like Training Day is a great movie until I think I got to die. You know, like he always gets a comeupp that guy goes out on top or like like training days a great movie until I think I gotta die you know like he always gets a comeuppance at the end right that's a very moral thing he's doing because he wants to show this is not how you live your life hmm do you

think it's a conscious decision on his part and how he chooses those roles he's a list you know he's he is the a-list black actor and he's an a-list actor you know you know that I mean how many a-list black actors are there is there like even 10 no there's him there's will smith and then it's a huge drop off yeah he's he's still working i mean he's a list in the he's a list in the uk he's not a list here he's on his way he could be a list yeah he's a british actor he's a big star over there so he speaks with a british accent absolutely that's's always weird. Like the guy from The Walking Dead. Have you ever heard the guy from The Walking Dead? The Rick?

You ever heard him talk in real life? He speaks with a total English accent. Same as the guy from Homeland. The redheaded dude from Homeland? Deep English accent. You know what I think is weird is Christian Bale, who's British, when he was doing interviews for Batman, spoke in an American accent. Did he?

Yeah, because he wanted people to accept Batman as Batman. He didn't want to throw them off with a British accent. So he threw a fake accent out while he was talking? Specifically when he did interviews for the movie Batman, he did it in an American accent. He's Uncle Tom in for America. So he's doing the fuck. Seems to have worked out. Yeah, I guess.

No, you make those three of the biggest action movies of all time. Well, Who Jackman, too. Who Jackman? Yeah, yeah. He's kind of done it, too. He abandoned that. Yeah, he sort of brings it in a little bit when he's- Barely.

Yeah. Never hear that Australian accent from him. Yeah. He's an odd duck. He's got a weird situation going on. He's married to a 100-year-old lady. He's like, what's going on there, dude? Somebody's got to want to marry a 100-year-old lady.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. You know how marriage works. Everybody got their everybody makes their agreements and not sure once the door closes it's all up to whatever the agreement is i like agreements i'm actually saying i know what we're saying yeah we could just leave it right here yeah no need to get crazy no need to no need to accuse anybody of anything or say that something's happened that we don't know about personally what the fuck do we know man we don't know about personally. What the fuck do we know, man? We don't know shit. You know, and certainly there's people, marriage is an agreement.

Handsome man, though. Yeah, absolutely. Beautiful body. I never liked him as Wolverine, but that's my own. Yeah, well, he's too tall. He's too tall and he's too good looking. Wolverine's supposed to be built like Hector Lombard. It's supposed to be this.

I feel like it's supposed to be like a young Robert De Niro. Yeah. Well, not even a Robert De, Yeah, but definitely too good looking. But it should be like this wide, thick tank of a man. Like a Wolverine. Yeah, yeah. Like the actual thing. A Wolverine animal is a small animal that's crazy wild and no one wants to fuck with it.

And covered in hair. Yeah. Yeah, it's not supposed to... Yeah, it's not supposed to be this beautiful six foot four handsome man with perfect abs. The real Wolverine was like 5'6 or something like that just this tank of a little short guy with metal bones

that killed a lot of people was a fucking murderer yeah it's funny how those claws in the movies don't ever like do the damage that you would think

you got claws coming out of your hands man well they don't show it you know I mean if they could do an R rated version of Wolverine where he's just

slicing people up I feel like they're starting to get the idea that they can make comic book movies like they're doing a deadpool movie you know deadpool yeah like they're doing it i feel like they're leaning into like oh no they actually adults want to see superhero movies but with actual adult things happening well the watchmen yeah but even more yeah yeah just yes so more of that because because i'm at this point i'm always i'm a comic book geek at least i was and i like superhero movies but i'm over them i just like guys and explosions and you do the cgi and then you do and the thing okay i'm a comic book geek too i definitely was when i was a kid i was a huge

comic book geek i skipped all the comic book movies this summer i was just like really i just couldn't i just i the spider-man movie with andrew garfield the first one that yeah so the second one came i was like no and then And then Captain America, I never. Maybe it's not in my DNA to give a shit about a guy named Captain America. It's just too much. It's just too much. Like, come on, everybody. And he doesn't have any cool powers.

So I sort of skipped that. Well, he's kind of got some cool steroid powers. Yeah, exactly. He's super steroiding. He's Brock Lesnar. Yeah. He's even more so. But, yeah, there's a difference between a guy like him and say like a guy like the Hulk.

Yeah. Like I can get behind the Hulk. I can get behind. That's the same thing. He's my favorite of all time. That's me. I was a kid. I remember the Hulk TV shows.

Well, the new Hulk, the thing about the Hulk now is they can make it look real. Yes. Like the CGI is so good. And what's his name? What the fuck's the new dude's name? Oh, oh, uh, the guy who plays Bruce Banner. He's an actual really good actor. The fuck is his name?

Oh, I can't remember. I need that pills. Mark the... Mark Ruffalo. Ruffalo. There he goes. Yeah. He's a really good actor.

He's a great actor. Ed Norton was good, too. Yeah, Ed Norton would have been good. I just think the CGI was not up to snuff. Eric Banasart. Yeah, that was, again, Bruce Banner's just think the CGI was not up to snuff. Eric Bana sucked. Yeah, that was again. Bruce Banner's not 6'4", like 220 pounds, looking at people like, don't make me turn into the Hulk.

You're already the Hulk, sir. Bitch, you're already huge. But Eric Bana was great in Chopper, but I just think that movie that he was in was not a good Hulk. Well, Ang Lee, and I think he's a great director, admitted he didn't know who the Hulk was when he took the movie. Oh, that's ridiculous. They basically gave it to him as like, you're a big Hollywood director.

Do you want to do this superhero movie? And he said, so he didn't. There was no sense that he actually understood or cared, really loved the source material. Yeah, man, listen. Sacrilege. I still feel like just let Lou Ferrigno do it every time. But that's me. I'm old school.

Be the Hulk? No, he's too fucking small. But you saw Lord of the Rings? Fucking Gandalf's not really that tall in real life. They can do stuff. I guess, but it just doesn't look like the Hulk. I just think I would rather a person was

doing it. Really? I just think it would be better because it's a person. It's not CGI. I don't mind the Hulk beinggi because there's no real hulk like where cgi looks weird is when it's a cgi version of a real thing like especially animals they're not good at that yet like like even in the game of thrones like you see the dogs the wolves the dire wolves like that's not really there i can kind of pretend it's there. That's not really touching the ground. Yeah, there's something going on here. It's not. It's just the worst version was the lions in I Am Legend.

Remember that shit? It was so goofy. Like, oh, Christ. Yeah. The other one, I think it was like when the Titanic came out, and there's a shot where they sweep over the ship. Yes, the people are walking. The robot people.

They don't have any knees. What happened to their knees? Well, it's like the opening scene in a video game. Like when you're getting like. Yeah, the load screen. Like an arcade. The cinematic. Yeah, the cinematic where it's like, well, this isn't the game, but this makes you think

the game is going to be cool. No, that's, I'm not. Yeah, I skipped out on the superhero movies. Yeah, they're just not quite there yet with CGI we were talking about this the other day with monster movies that like they show too much like the American werewolf in London is the perfect example you only see that werewolf like brief seconds and so your your imagination has to kind of do a lot of work and it's still scary yeah but now when you see a monster movie you see like minutes and minutes yeah monster and it starts to look like a dude in a suit or a cgi

thing it looks like a cgi thing yeah you know like the i am legend monsters they looked cgi'd up they didn't look they didn't look like the 28 days later zombies yeah who were people that just they moved like a real thing that was really in front of you as opposed to these things that are moving like somebody created it on a computer. Somebody's drawing this right now. Yeah. But that's just cinematic shit, Hollywood shit. Yeah.

What do you think about Tyler Perry movies? What do you think about buffoonish versions of black people as done by black people? I have talked about Tyler Perry in the past. My problem with Tyler Perry movies is that there's not enough black filmmakers out there making movies to not make him look like that's the definitive story of black people. Right.

And so it's frustrating when people go, that's it, right there. That's the version of it. And you go, if there was other filmmakers, if Spike Lee was still, I mean, he's a viable filmmaker,, if there was other filmmakers, if Spike Lee was still a, like, I mean, he's a viable filmmaker, but if there was, like, there was a point in the 90s where black people started directing movies, he thought, oh, we're going to have a lot of major black movie directors.

John Singleton. John Singleton, Matty Rich, Spike Lee predates those people. And, but it didn't, there's not a, there's still, black cinema is still defined by Tyler Perry. And Spike Lee sort of got out of the, he's, every now and again does one of his classic Spike Lee movies, but yeah, but it's, my problem is that there's not enough choices so that I have to have the Tyler Perry discussion because like nobody ever goes to you like, you know, for, you know, he's going to sit you down and go, what do you think about a Woody Allen movie?

You know what I mean? Like there's not, unless we're talking about Woody Allen, but they're not, you know what I'm saying? Like they're not going to pick some, like you're not gonna have to reckon with each and every Hollywood director as it reflects on you. I don't have to represent it as a white person. You don't have to respond to it. You can go, for example, I can't go, I don't have an opinion on Tyler Perry movies. You'd be like, come on, man.

But you can go, I don't have an opinion on Woody Allen. You'd be like, I guess he doesn't. He just maybe doesn't think about it. But I have to, as a black person, reckon with Tyler Perry, I'm glad he's employing people. He certainly employs more black actresses than anybody else. And if you're a black actress in Hollywood and your version is getting beat by Idris Elba in a movie or the Christian mom who finally meets a man and has a girls club or whatever

the shit is that he's doing. I've not seen any of them, but I get you go. I think I'll do the thing where I play the woman who's a single mom living in the hood, trying to get a better opportunity versus Idris Elba going upside your head for 90 minutes. So I appreciate that. I used to be very like, fuck Tyler Perry about it. But I just sort of, things are complicated, man. Well, he has a weird scenario, too, where he does things like old school studio style.

Yeah, he owns it. That's the other thing. There's a part of that where the business side is like he owns his own studio so yeah he literally is making the movies he wants to make and there's you know there's major hollywood directors who aren't doing that he writes them he writes them he produces them he shoots them on his lot he casts them he puts himself in them my thing now it's just that thing like ben affleck's got a new movie coming out and tyler prayer's just in it like playing up like a guy really yeah, it's just that thing where Ben Affleck's got a new movie coming out and Tyler Perry's just in it, playing a guy. Really?

Yeah. What is it? Well, he does that sometimes. Didn't he play it? There was another movie where Matthew Fox, the guy from Lost. He tried to do an Alex Cross movie. Nobody's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. What's Alex Cross?

It's a series of movies Morgan Freeman did. It was like Kiss the Girl. Really? Yeah. It's based on a series of novels Morgan Freeman did that was like kiss the girl and yeah there's like it's a it's a one of those it's based on a series of novels I'm caring the man Morgan Freeman played the character Alex Cross and then he basically redid it and updated it and he was playing the main character and so I think it's called Alex Cross oh yeah I didn't know that it was box was in it yeah I didn't know it's based on some yeah that would that that's what they're

trying to do an established property that has been a hit movie we're gonna redo it with with Tyler Perry and bring his audience in and have a new franchise. But nobody bought Tyler Perry as a serious, dramatic sort of thriller guy. I mean, it would have been better if it was Madea as Alex Cross. What are you showing me here? Gone Girl is the new. Gone Girl. Yeah, and Tyler Perry's just in it.

What is it? What is Gone Girl? New Affleck movie. Yeah, it's getting a lot of, it's going to be the new movie we are all talking about. Whether you see it or not, it's going to be. What is it about? I don't know. Oh. Don't know yet.

Okay. Something about a daughter getting kidnapped. A daughter getting kidnapped or something. Oh, okay. But Tyler Perry's just in it. I just feel like it's a little bit hard for me to. How the fuck does he have time to do all that shit? He's got, you know, he's, I think, you know, you can't be that guy without being, and I say this in the best way possible, a hustler.

You can't have gotten to the point that he's at without making time to do as many things as you can do. Because he's someone who was living out of his car and doing plays in Baptist churches or something. Was he? Yeah. The things he did in movies started out as plays that he did in community centers and probably church basements. And he built them up to a thing that you'd go to the Apollo and see a Tyler Perry play. Like black theater. It became urban black theater.

Does he have a hundred-year-old wife, too, if you know what I'm saying? He's got agreements, I'm sure. He's got agreements. Arrangements. He's not married. He doesn't have any children. Okay. Cool, cool, cool.

He takes his mom to the movie openings. This is a homophobic conversation without even saying anything. I don't think it's homophobic. I feel like I'm being homophobic without even being it. I'm just telling you about the dude. He takes his mom to the premieres. Nothing wrong with that. Whatever he is, he's successful at it.

Good for him. Seems like a nice guy. Yeah, there's been no scandal, so we can't be mad at him seems friendly yeah seems friendly you know doesn't get aggressive and angry at people for no reason like the other blacks is that what you're saying well that's what i'm saying oh yeah he's one of the he's one of the good ones he's not like the others jamie and i being one of the good white people we like to point out some of the good black people oh thank you thank you he's yeah he's he's also very articulate i don't know if you noticed that he speaks so well i don't notice color i don't know if you noticed that. He speaks so well.

I don't notice color. I don't see it. Oh, thanks, that's so helpful. I'm one of those people. Thanks, that's very helpful. I don't see color. It's helpful to living in America, a white person who doesn't see color. I just see people.

I don't see it. I just benefit from it. I don't see sex. I don't see... Yeah, I don't see gender. I don't see... I don't notice white privilege because I don't even notice that I'm white. That's awesome.

Just like I don't notice that I'm six foot four all the time It just sounds just I just look down and it seems to be where everything I can reach everything I don't ever have to stay get a stepstool. Yeah, I can always see over people at the concerts. It's great I got a long reach if you want a box Yeah, I got I got I got height privilege, but I don't notice it height privilege The difference is I used to be short, so I know how short people feel. Yeah. But you weren't black and then grew up into whiteness.

Oh, that's true. That's a good point. Yeah. That's how I feel about it. Yeah. But no, I was short until I was, I mean, whatever the definition of short is until high school. You started getting tweeted when I was involved in this conversation with a lot of people about racism and John Jonesones and uh you you were

chiming in about it and uh that was a weird conversation not not because uh the idea that uh people being racist against a young fighter like when you see a guy um that's doing very well and has a lot of success and then you see a lot of blowback and people are criticizing him i always wonder like what is it that they're criticizing they're criticizing his personal life his behavior like what is he doing that's so terrible yeah what what is it how much of that is racism and when i said how much of that is racism holy shit did people get mad yeah i i said i wonder how much of that is racism. And then I also said, I think he'd be more popular if he was white.

And people were like, so you're saying that we don't like him because we're white? Like, people made these big jumps and big conclusions. I'm saying, are you saying that he wouldn't be more popular if he was white? Because I think that's ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. Because there's more white people than there are black people. And white people tend to associate. White people?

They want white heroes. We like to see ourselves. Yes. And that's true of all people. We like to see ourselves reflected outside of ourselves. I don't even think that's saying that he's not more popular because of racism. I think that's like a racial preference thing. But asking the question, I wonder if a lot of the blowback, a lot of the reason why people don't like him is racism

Mm-hmm, and I I was I was a little taken aback. Yes the front page saw that I saw that now And that's why I chimed in because I was like I felt like oh Joe was experiencing something that I experience all the time When these discussions and that's why I sort of reached out like I was trying to reach and go hey, man I thank you. I know what you I know what's happening here, and I'm a white guy. Yeah, it's hilarious It's hilarious. Well, it's worse because people acted like you turned traitor. Exactly. Which shows you how deep racism is.

It's that people who would not describe themselves as white people felt like you turned on them because you brought up race. Well, people were saying, fuck you. They were tweeting me some really mean shit. I was like, whoa, did you even listen to what I said? Because people didn't even listen. No, no, no. They saw it on print somewhere, and then it was on the cover of a bunch of different news

outlets saying, Joe Rogan attributes Jon Jones' lack of success to racism. Yes. All I said was that I wonder how much of it is racism. Well, a similar thing, much smaller, happened to me recently. I wrote- I saw it. racism Well a similar thing Much smaller happened to me recently I saw it Buzzfeed reached out to me and said Do you want to write a thing about lack of diversity in late night And they're like you may be over talking about it No I'll write a thing about it

And my thing was it's true I noticed you can't say it's not white in late night White in male Because they wanted to make it white I was like no it's white in male let's be real But my thing is I'm not worried about late night We need male because they wanted to make it white i was like no it's white and male let's be real and but my thing is i'm not worried about late night i'm not trying to we need to stop focusing on getting a diversity in late night and the rest of us need to do we always do find our own projects and create our own way and stop being the way the way that this is a reaction to late

night talk show that you like i want to just talk i don't want to have to do a skit and a thing so and then the hollywood reporter said put a says w come out bell their headline was it's time for a black host in late night yes i saw that and i was like that's not what you said that's not what i said i love your tweet to it too but you said it's funny when i say did you ever notice people here people here everything you know and love is wrong and that's the same thing you found out is when you go, I wonder people hear you're a racist. But I thought it was particularly shocking to me because I'm a white guy. And I'm saying, I wonder how much of it is racism.

Because are we pretending that racism isn't real? With 350 million people in this country, right? If there's 300 plus million people in this country, what percentage are if it's one percent let's say it's one percent we have more than three million racists okay we know it's more than one percent yes so what percentage has a hard time dealing with a dominant male athlete in a combat sport that beats the fuck out of everybody and is like young and brash And also has the thing that, there have been comparisons of Jon Jones to Ali, young Ali,

and he has the same thing Ali had, where he's considered to be an outsider to the sport. There's a thing with Jon Jones where it's like, the stuff I've read about Jon Jones is that he's unorthodox, or he didn't come up the way he learned on YouTube videos. There's sort of this legend that has been created about him, that he's not, that the sport, that he's not a guy like, I don't know,

like you think about, like... George St. Pierre. George St. Pierre. No, I'm even thinking of the black guy. I can't, the guy, John Jones, they were friends, and then he beat him. Rashad Evans. Rashad Evans, who sort of was raised by the sport

through The Ultimate Fighter, and so people got to see him sort of like, people got to feel like, I saw that guy on the TV show, and now he's our champion. Whereas Jon Jones sort of came from the outside and very quickly dominated, and that threatens people sometimes, too. Well, he actually, see, there's a misconception when it comes to martial arts. And one of the big ones is that wrestling is not a martial art.

Jon was a very successful wrestler all throughout high school and college. And that is probably the most important martial art the ability to dictate where the fight takes place is probably the most important aspect of fighting and John was an outstanding wrestler the only reason why he didn't go on to be a college star because he got his girlfriend pregnant he had to get a job yeah that is why he got but he was being actively recruited by a bunch of different universities because he was a very talented wrestler.

And then, on top of that, he grew up with two fucking giant super athlete brothers, and they used to duke it out all the time. John's parents would laugh about how their kids would just wrestle and fight in the living room. And that is a reality. If you grow up with big brothers, you get used to combat in the household on a daily fucking base. You've got to fight for cereal. You've cereal you gotta fight this fucking dude took your basketball yeah someone you know someone's got your shit you gotta duke it out you gotta fight to go to the bathroom yeah

and even if it's not a real fight there's competition like high level competition so when he came out of nowhere he was still a very good athlete and a very good wrestler. And wrestling is a hugely important martial art. So it's no more unusual than a guy who's a world-class kickboxer who enters into MMA and starts knocking people out. It's kind of to be expected. So I think that's just a misconception. Yeah, I'm not saying it, but it's definitely like you're black, you're better than everybody, and you didn't come up the way we want you to have come up into this sport. Well, I don't see. I don't know about that.

That's where we disagree. Okay. I feel like that was the thing when I first heard about Jon Jones. The myth was created that he learned from watching YouTube videos. I remember hearing shit like that. Well, he did learn very quickly. He did learn very quickly. And people kind of don't like when, this is the thing we talk about, like with young,

with Cassius Clay, when somebody is so young and so much better than everybody, and then you put the black thing on top of that. He might have got that if he was white and so much better than everybody. They sort of get threatened by that. Right. And then you put black on top of it. It's like, that's a recipe for America. Yeah.

And then if we can find some faults in your character. Oh, was he drinking? Yes. And driving? And he hit a tree? As a professional athlete or especially in a combat sport, all the guys are, this is not polite things. No. Yeah.

You actually want your fighters to be badasses who drink and get in fights and do some things. To me, to fault him for that is ridiculous. Well, it's very difficult to find a badass that doesn't do that. Yes, yeah. Like Donald Cerrone, who's one of the best fighters in the UFC, he's a real fucking crazy wild man. His name's Cowboy. His nickname's Cowboy.

He wears a fucking cowboy hat everywhere. He literally was a bull rider and drinks beer up until the day of the weigh-ins okay takes the day off to weigh in and then after the weigh-ins we'll have a beer like the day before his fucking fight yeah and in between fights he's jet skiing wakeboarding he's a wild motherfucker yeah yeah but he's a white dude yeah so like all this talk about him drinking and he's never like crashed a car he's not married he doesn't have there's a white dude. So all this talk about him drinking, and he's never crashed a car, he's not married. There's a bunch of shit that John was involved in that gave people an excuse to be upset at him. Yeah, they gave him an excuse because if they liked him, that stuff would be the things that made him like,

Oh, he's a badass. He doesn't give a shit. He's out there driving his Bentley in the trees. Yeah, that would be stuff that he was celebrated for if they liked him. Yes, if they liked him. Yes, if they liked him. But I heard people say like, oh, he's so fake,

he's so fake. He's fucking 27 years old. Do you even know who you were when you were 27? And if you were, were you the fucking light heavyweight champion of the world

for three years? Because we would have heard about you. Yeah, the amount of pressure and just the scrutiny that he's under is just unprecedented.

Yeah, and I think that MMA at this point, I feel like if I ever made sort of fuck you money or money enough, I would open jiu-jitsu gyms in the ghetto to train the next generation of black MMA fighters. Because I feel like there's guys in there who could be... MMA is a very white sport right now. MMA fighters because I feel like there's guys in there who could be. MMA is a very white sport right now. Now, black guys historically have been fighters like professional boxers, but professional boxing got so corrupt that the strongest, toughest black guy now plays for the NFL. He doesn't. He's not a boxer.

He's not a heavyweight. I don't think there'll be a black heavyweight champion really ever again. Really? What makes you say that? Just because. Do you know who Deontay Wilder is? No. No.

Bad motherfucker. Okay. Well, I hope there is. Who's an upcoming undefeated heavyweight who's just smashing people. Well, good. you say that just because do you know who deontay wilder is no no bad motherfucker okay well i hope there is undefeated heavyweight who's just smashing people well good big tall long lanky dude who's got i think he's all knockouts i think his record is just he's a guy that got famous recently because there was some crazy fuck who was on the internet who's talking all kinds of crazy shit to him and so he met him in a boxing ring and beat the shit out of him. Oh, I didn't see that. You didn't see that? No, no, I got to see that.

Yeah, some crazy guy who said some fucked up things about his daughter and beat the fuck out of him in a video that was on TMZ and everything. Well, I just think that the culture of professional boxing in this country has changed in the black community. I think there's a sense of, like, if Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield can end up broke, what chance do I stand? But Floyd Mayweather has untold amounts of money. It's a management issue. For now, is that what you're about to say?

How dare you? I don't want to get a war with Floyd Mayweather started, but I just feel like who had more? Mike Tyson had untold amounts of money. Now, Mayweather has more because of inflation feel like Mike Tyson had untold amounts of money. Now, Mayweather has more because of his place. He's a promoter also. But Mike Tyson and Holyfield had untold amount of money at the time.

Right. And they're both, I don't know how they're living, but they're not living the way they were. But that's a management issue. It is. But I think the problem is it's the same thing we talked about earlier. You come out of the bad neighborhood. They learn you're an athlete. They don teach you the rest they don't teach you like how to be a good manager you're signing with a with a boxing manager don king who just like just sign

this blank piece of paper i'll take care of it so it's a it's a recurring process that happens and that thing whereas at least if you go to the nfl you get a contract you know you get a you get an actual thing that we're going to pay you this much now it's not guaranteed or if you go to the nba you get a guaranteed contract or my theory is that a lot of those dudes go instead of going into a boxing ring and getting my brains beaten out i'm just gonna hang out with the best basketball player in town and be his and being his posse you know that it doesn't pay as much but at least i'm not getting ripped off i don't know where's where's the black heavyweight champion what why aren't black guys in boxing anymore?

It used to be that it was a done deal that a black guy would be the heavyweight champion. There is a real problem and that problem is a six foot six Russian named Vladimir Klitschko who's one of the best boxers

the heavyweight division's ever known. I mean, Vladimir Klitschko is a bad motherfucker. I'm not in any way, but it's just... You know, it's weird. Who would have ever thought

that there would be a white heavyweight champion that no one gives a fuck about no one gives a fuck about no one gives a fuck about nobody yeah the heavyweight champion used to be the most famous guy on the planet yeah and that and that ended with when lennox lewis retired i think dude i was on a fucking plane vladimir klitschko and no one knew who he was i was thinking about whether i should interrupt him and say hi and say i'm a big fan. I'm like, that dude's probably so happy that no one's talking to him right now. I'll leave him alone. But then I realized

no one was talking to him. Nobody fucking talked to him. That's a shift. The heavyweight champion used to be the most famous guy on the planet. Yeah, my friend goes, man, that guy's fucking huge.

I go, do you know that's the heavyweight boxing champion in the world? He goes, what? Yeah, yeah. A white guy? Yeah.

That's Vladimir Klitschko. Now in Ukraine, he he would be i'm sure he gets mobbed in germany yeah yeah he actually speaks like five different languages he's a phd he's a brilliant guy i mean it's a really unique guy to be a heavyweight champion him and his brother were heavyweight champions at the same time and didn't want to and didn't fight each other it was was so strange. I mean, boxing is so corrupt. I mean, there's like, you know. But why do you say that? What do you think is corrupt about it? Because that's kind of a cliche statement.

Well, here's why. I'll bring it to this. The UFC is doing a good job right now. It's a central organization that has a series of practices, and this is the way you have to do it. And that you can call it a monopoly if you want to but it's a centralized organization that runs everything boxing is a bunch of different organizations that each set their own rules and don't so there's not a way to go how do we make these fighters like you know you can't avoid a fight if you're the

best guy in the ufc and there's a number two guy you guys are going to fight right there's no but boxing because there's a bunch of splinter organizations you can't we never got to see holyfield and tyson fight in their prime you know because of pacquiao and mayweather because of all the all the backwater people are trying to keep the protect their side of it and so i don't want him to fight that guy because if he loses then we lose all our things so there's it's not what's good for the sport it's what's good for the bottom line and the dollar and what the and so therefore it leads to corruption it leads to like things that happen where why aren't these fights happening and then and also the thing with don king you know he tyson will tell you know i'm sure you probably talked to mike tyson before then don king became the biggest promoter because he was ripping

everybody the fuck off and so there's no central authority to rule over and say we have to clean this up right and so and so there and so it leads to a lot of corruption and it leads to there's no central authority to rule over and say we have to clean this up. Right. I see what you're saying. And so it leads to a lot of corruption and it leads to there's no reason that Mike Tyson should be broke right now. Despite all the shit he went through. There's no reason. See, that's where I disagree with you. I don't attribute that to corruption and neither does he. He just went crazy and spent all his money.

I mean, he has a fucking one-man Broadwayway show where he talks about he shows 350 million he goes yes i spent that much but he's he he did spend that much but he also i'm sure would tell you and that somebody also to that somebody else took millions of dollars from him that they weren't supposed to have they okay that is true someone stole money from him however if he had that money he would have spent it too well i would i wish i would i would like to give him the chance to spend it that's all i would have liked to have been with someone who is a financial advisor who would have set some money aside very early on. You know, Allen Iverson has that?

Yes, he does. Yeah. We were talking about that recently. Yeah. And Iverson turns 50. He gets millions of dollars, right? He gets millions of dollars. Well, that's nice.

He's just working, I think, for the 76ers until that kicks in. And I think that Michael Jordan sort of established the modern NBA of like, you know, get a money manager and get a guy who protects your things and don't invest in stupid shit. And so some people will end up broke. But do you think that the NFL is corrupt? Do you think that the NBA is corrupt? Not in the way that boxing is corrupt.

Well, look at it this way. Because there's guaranteed contracts. 80% of NFL players within two years are bankrupt after they retire? 80%. 60-something percent of NBA players, same thing, bankrupt within two years of retirement. So I don't think it's an issue of corruption when it comes to how much money they blow. As much as they get that money, it's flowing in like a river. Yeah, I saw that ESPN documentary broke.

I didn't see it. It's about this. It's about that. Yeah, I saw that ESPN documentary broke. I didn't see it. It's about this. It's about that. A guy like Mike Tyson grew up in Brownsville, poor as hell, and then all of a sudden he has hundreds of millions of dollars.

He's got tigers. Charlie Murphy came on my podcast and told a fucking story about Mike Tyson, about showing up at Mike Tyson's house and Mike Tyson is on the front lawn playing with a tiger. So he had a fucking tiger. Nobody would get out of the car. Everybody stayed in their car. Yeah. But here's my thing.

The corruption leads to people not wanting to participate in the sport in the same way. That's what I believe. I don't think so, man. I just think that you go, why don't I just be a football player? I don't think they're looking at it in terms of this long-term thing. I think there's less people that are getting involved in boxing, first of all, because more people are getting involved in MMA. That's one thing that is definitely happening. But more black dudes aren't getting involved.

I mean, maybe starting to, but that wasn't the – there was a gulf between the end of boxing being a big sport, the end of heavyweight champions being a big thing, and then the MMA taking prominence. And what happened in that gulf? being a big thing and then the MMA taking prominence. And what happened in that gulf? Like between Lennox Lewis going, I'm out, and to Jon Jones, there's like a gulf of like, where did all the black heavyweight champions go? Where did all the black dudes who were going to be heavyweight champions go? Well, there were still a lot of black fighters in the lower weight classes. Like that was Roy Jones was still around.

There's Hopkins. I was simply thinking about like heavyweight. There's Sugar Shane Mosley. The heavyweight champion was the baddest motherfucker on the planet. It's hard to find really big dudes that are willing to get punched in the face. Yeah, that's Sugar Shane Mosley. The heavyweight champion was the baddest motherfucker on the planet. It's hard to find really big dudes that are willing to get punched in the face. Yeah, that's true. The other thing is, boxing is just so fucking hard to do in comparison to other sports like football. Because not that football is not hard to do, but you could be a great football player

and never have the courage to be able to step into a ring on your own in your underwear and go toe-to-toe with a guy. Because Bob could fucking drop the ball, and you could lose the game, and you could still go out and party. But if you get your ass kicked, you got your fucking ass kicked. You did it. It's all on you. A lot of people are not psychologically built for that.

Well, but that's the thing I think is interesting. For years they were. Up through Holyfield and Tyson they were. And again, some of those dudes are getting concussions in the NFL. Oh, yeah. So it's not like – I just think there's – that's my theory about it. I certainly don't know how to be right. But I just feel like the culture of the sport became so corrupt that I don't think people –

I see where you're coming from, but I really honestly don't think that it's coming from a point of like, okay, we've seen the future. This is where this ends up. Let's not do this. No okay, we've seen the future. This is where this ends up. Let's not do this. No, I'm not saying the future, but I think there is a sense that if you're a kid, if you're a kid who's 6'3", 250, and you go, man, do I want to be a basketball player like LeBron James or Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, or do I want to be a boxer like Evander Holderfield or Mike?

Oh, wait a second. Those dudes are broke. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but they didn't have to be broke, man. This is why I deny this. They are. They are. I'm not saying they have to be.

More importantly than broke is brain damage. I think that is the most intelligent thing to avoid. Yes. I think that as, one thing, as different economic groups excel in the culture, they become less likely to be fighters. That is one thing that happens on a pretty consistent basis.

Yeah, whoever on the bottom of the economic... That's why it was Irish dudes, it was Jewish dudes in boxing. It was Italians for a while. It's also boxing is like brain damage is fucking unavoidable. Yes, you can't do it for long without... I mean, I think Lennox Lewis got out when he was like, okay, I've beaten everybody. At this point, it's just going to be about taking too many hits to the head yeah and very smart and he's shown a little bit of deterioration though how could you not you can't how could you

not yeah nobody rides for free i mean i was a big boxing fan so i just i i sort of missed the fact that the heavyweight title was like an event like when you was like this that it was a thing you everybody paid attention people who didn't care about boxing knew who the heavyweight champion was. The Klitschko's are boring as fuck. They're boring. Because they're smart, and they're not going in there to, they're not trying to have blood wars. No. Like, you know, when you watch 1970s boxing, and it's like, you know, 15 rounds.

Ernie Shavers. Yeah, yeah. And it's a dude who, like, breaks his jaw in the third round and says, I'm good. No, I didn't break my jaw. I didn't break my jaw. Yeah. Like, it's like, you know, I'm a huge Ali fan. I'm a huge, another surrogate dad.

Ali Ken Norton, when he broke his jaw. And they just still, no, don't tell nobody. I'll see you at the hospital later. So I miss that spectacle of like, I mean, I remember being in a video store in Chicago and they had the Tyson fight on and it was like, maybe it was like Carl the Truth Williams. Yeah, and it was like that thing where me and my friend go, let's just stay a minute. This will only take a minute, and it did.

You know what I mean? Like, I like that, you know. I'm a fan of that, and I miss it, and I don't think all those dudes ended up in MMA yet. I mean, maybe they will. I think most of them ended up in football, and a lot of them ended up in basketball. Terry Norris.

Terry Norris was one of those guys from that day. He was a big star. He's all fucked up now, man. Yeah. I ran into him in Vegas a few years back

and I was listening to him talk to some fans and he was slurring his words and could barely put a sentence together and I was like, damn, I remember when Terry Norris

was the champ. Yeah, and it's weird to think about Ali, for example. Yeah. the jury's out whether he got his parkinson's related i'll stop that right now the fuck that jury the jury's it filled with idiots i'll tell you from a person who's a lifetime investment in combat sports that's 100 trauma related okay yeah parkinson's is a trauma related disease in a lot of people freddie roach has parkinson's related trauma okay it's one of the reasons why he forced manny pacquiao to take a whole year off after marquez Parkinson's is a trauma-related disease in a lot of people. Freddie Roach has Parkinson's-related trauma. Okay. It's one of the reasons why he forced Manny Pacquiao to take a whole year off after Marquez knocked him out.

He's like, dude, you're not fighting now. We're going to take a year off. Yeah, yeah. Just to get yourself. Well, that's a great... So, Ali, who's still alive, we sort of almost treat him like he's dead. Yeah. And then every now and again, he just joined Twitter, and you're like, it's just weird

to be like... Right. And some of them are coming from the champ you're like are they really come on it's that thing with like if ollie was still with you because he's not that old he's in his 70s i mean he's old but he's not like you know he's not a hundred right if he was still around and still talking is and talking relatively fast and was he was he'd be an ambassador for you should be a boxer right but because of like you said the trauma related injuries he has not there's no no old boxer is a good ambassador for boxing except bernard hopkins which is ridiculous 49

years old still the champ talks great still full of energy outboxes the shit out of some young guys he's a freak man well it's that thing we just talked about earlier with some people are doing crystal meth and it's fine it's the same thing not everybody has to take the hits well he's also got a very intelligent style he doesn't brawl with anybody he he brawls on his terms clinches a lot he holds on to guys he he'll use roughhouse tactics to push them out of their game and he's just aware he understands what to do like before boxing is one of those things where if you look at it on, like if you don't have

any education in boxing and you watch it on television, like, well, this guy's trying to hit this guy and the other guy's faster so he can't hit him. No, there's footwork involved. He's doing movements

that get you to react and he's anticipating your reaction and then giving you another thing to think about and then when you react to that, you're going to step here and he's ready

with an overhand right. And these things are all in his mind these are all foregone conclusions but to a young guy he's just going to use his speed and his but you don't ever get a chance to use that speed yeah he's already on you he's already making you move and dance to his rhythm he's got you're he's the marionette you're the puppet yeah and you don't realize until it's the 10th round you're getting your ass kicked and you you're like, fuck. And they're like, you need a knockout. You're like, I can't even fucking hit him. You know? I haven't touched him since the first round.

Did you see that Russian guy that he beat for the light heavyweight title? No, no. Shit. He's boxing the shit out of this guy. And then in the 10th round, blam, drops him. They're like, you know, you need to stop him. In the 10th round, Hopkins drops him. They're like, motherfucker.

You can't even hit him. No, no. It's just too good. Too slick. In college, I briefly joined a boxing club and got hit by a dude who was not a professional boxer. The hardest I've ever been hit in my life. I was like, I think I'm done with this boxing club. You get rocked hard. I'm like, I think I'm going to just go back to class.

I think I'm trying to be a comedian. But boxing, to be taught properly should be taught where you don't hit each other hard at all well this is this is like a guy who had like an ex is in philadelphia this guy was an ex uh boxer had fought sugar a leonard like that was his big story it lost the sugar a leonard which is his name uh no this was a long time ago uh yeah i don't remember his name but he was a i, I would recognize, he fought Sugar Ray Leonard in Philly at the Blue Horizon. Oh, man. Lost the fight.

Blue Horizon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He played the video for us, but he just sort of put, it was a boxing club. He just sort of put us in a room, and there was no ring. It was just like,

and there was one guy who was, we were the same height, but that guy, he outweighed me. I was like 6'4", 190. He was like 6 four you know 260 or something it's like I don't think we're actually in the same weight class oh and he was a guy who and he rocked me and it was just that thing and I had headgear on I was like oh yeah that's this is not uh I think I'm gonna be use words yeah you could learn how to box but you got to learn

how to box today especially in today's day and age you got to learn how to do it from someone who respects brain trauma you know and understands like the goal is not to just go in there and beat the shit out of each other and the strong person survives the goal is to teach someone how to move their head so they don't get hit when he's got his right hand there that means the punch is coming this way i want you to duck under it and then you counter and do everything nice and slow at first. Develop the movements. And then when you spar, spar in a very controlled way, and you'll actually get better at it. And then you could actually become a real boxer.

But the problem is a lot of these gyms, they don't want pussies. So they'll just take you, and they'll throw you in there. Here, lace them up. Although now there's cardio boxing, which is not exactly what you're talking about, where it's like, we're just pretending to box. Well, they're hitting bags mostly, and they're doing it with poor form. I went to a cardio boxing class, and I was watching these people hit the bag. I'm like, no one's even telling them to do it right. Yeah.

Everything they're doing, they're all fucking wailing their arms all goofy, and they're not throwing their hips. They're lifting their feet up when they punch, and no one correcting them no like this is not boxing this is just hitting shit hitting shit is exercise yes you know you can't even call it cardio boxing um but it is interesting what you said about the the heavyweight division that the heavyweight division being this division that's sort of but you still have guys like adrian broner that are coming up you'd still i have not paid attention in a long time because it sort of became a thing where it just for there was just felt like a desert like it's just a heavyweight division no no i i will i will

watch many packs these fucking russians have a stranglehold on that motherfucker and yeah they're not letting it go it'll be interesting to see because he's still the champ right klitschko oh yeah that when he fought because he's pretty old too he's not a young dude he's like 40 yeah that when he retires like what happens like what you know i think that boxing could use a central organization that's sort of like it's never gonna happen no no and i think that's you know why because you can start your own organizations in the ghetto that's what i'm gonna start to well mma has done it in a way where like if you organized uh an event like you call it the WFO, whatever the fuck it is, and you decided to have an event and you say, this is my WFO world champion, that's a world champion.

That's what the WBA does for boxing, the IBF, the IBO. There's all these different organizations. WBC. Yeah. UFC is the thing. That's the thing. The NFL Super Bowl champion is the fucking NFL champion.

Yeah, there's no question that whoever wins the Super Bowl is the best football team in the world at that point. There's not somebody in, there's not a football team in Europe that's like,

no, we could actually. Exactly. And the problem is with boxing is there's so many organizations and once that happens you can't take it back. You know, you can't get

all those people together and say, hey, let's all form one organization and we'll split the money. Put the fuck out of here. No, and that's the, again, everybody wants the money is what dictates the thing. I mean, I remember when unifying the title was three titles.

Yep. It was the WBA, the WBC, and like the IBF, I think. IBF was late in the game. Yeah, IBF was late in the game. IBF came around like the 80s, I believe. Yeah, I remember when Riddick both, I think he threw one of the titles in the trash can. Yeah, that was right. That was a big deal, man. Yeah, yeah remember when Riddick both, I think he threw it in the trash, threw one of the tiles in the trash can. Yeah, that was right. That was a big deal, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's also they pay ridiculous sanctioning fees. The sanctioning fees to fight for a WBA title is fucking through the roof. It's crazy money. Like, for what are you fucking, what am I getting out of this? Giving you a million dollars? And what the fuck are you getting? Yeah, this is, again again it's the it's the

that's the that's the i mean maybe some wouldn't call it corruption but i think that's the corruption it's like everyone's trying to get as much of the money as they can but it's not good for the sport you know what it should be man it should be like ring magazine yes you know ring magazine has a ring champion i don't think they have to pay to be the ring champion no everybody should abandon everything but the ring title yes ring magazine is not going to do you dirty they they're they're the people that know they want the sport to be good yeah they want the best and i think that that's the problem with the effort that there's money in it yeah there's money in deciding who's you know the wbc or the wba it's that unchecked capitalism thing fucking communism as a point yeah socialism i enjoy this phone that was made by chinese

children but uh i also think that we should probably pay them a living wage, you know? They ought to make good phones, but let's pay them a living wage. Whenever you have nets around the building where you work to keep people from jumping off the roof, because there's so many fucking people jumping off that you need nets. Yes. Yeah. Maybe we should look into this. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe we should, right? Do you think there's a way around that because that's that drives me nuts about not just cell phones but about like people that drive like priuses and shit and say i'm helping the environment i'm being socially conscious hey you're also driving a fucking box filled with conflict minerals yeah every fucking lithium ion crystal and that came out of a fucking mine in the ground in africa and it's likely a child that might have been pulling it out you know somebody said to me the other day because of my act and the way i talk about things like how would you identify yourself are you a socialist

are you a communist like no dude i just went to the apple store and got me an ipod touch i'm a very i'm a very proud i'm maybe a reluctant capitalist but i also like a nice house too i just i just think that there's like there's ethics like if i'm like when i go to pay when i went to go try to buy a new phone and they said it's going to be 700 if i if i thought that that 700 was actually going to a living wage for somebody maybe i don't know if i'd buy it but i would think about it but i know it's like you're just making up a price yeah this is not actually a pot like we're probably paying too little for our phones. They should probably all be twice as much as they are. Yeah.

But we all know this thing where, I want the 50, isn't it $50 with a free rebate or something? Right. We want that. But that's a problem, because that doesn't help the world. It's the same thing with the minimum wage, raising the minimum wage. If you raise the minimum wage, you have less job turnover, you have people have more pride in their job. Because customer services sucks in this country, because the dude got hired two days ago and he's looking and he's looking for a new job isn't there also like when you look at the amount

of profit that apple has made and probably apple has something like 60 billion dollars in the fucking bank like how much would you have in the bank if you paid people more money to make those phones and you made them in america and you made less profit but the people all made a living wage like we've worked out on paper that's so I can see what that would be well it's the same that it's the same thing with Walmart like they they if they paid everybody like $12 an hour they would they would make like three billion dollars like it's really it's not like how much profit do you need to make and at some point and I get that you're allowed to set the price wherever you want I feel like I'm talking market

talking about right now yeah like my dad in my head right now. Yeah, like my dad has this. The market has this. But we all have to agree we live in a society that we're not individuals living on our little islands. But I think corporations treat it like we are all our own little country. Well, there's a reason why there's something like a minimum wage and that we all kind of agree there should be some minimum wage. It's because corporations have no fucking soul no they're just about money they're about bottom line they're in they're in fact their duty to

their shareholders yes is to increase their bottom line and they have to make more every year yes yeah they can't yeah they can't have flat they can't have flat growth which is hilarious yeah like we can't we made a billion dollars last year we only made a billion dollars this year what's happening down there? What's happening to those kids in that factory? They need to make less. They need to. And so the thing that I think is like, and the thing with the minimum wage is that it hasn't kept up with inflation. If minimum wage is tracked with inflation, it would be fine, but it has not kept up.

And, you know, my dad, when I talked to my dad about it, he's like, well, those jobs are pass-through jobs. You're not supposed to work at Walmart forever. Hey, the factory left town. There's no good union jobs. There's not a lot of good union jobs where you can work at the GM factory for 25 years and retire with a gold watch. Walmart is the factory. I feel like there's some jobs that are really good for kids. There's some jobs when kids just get out of high school and they have an entry-level job.

There are some jobs that probably shouldn't pay a shitload of money but no not a shitload but they should yeah if you're working all week you should be able to live on that yes yes if that's why is that a full-time work you should be able to afford to you should be able to eat you should be able to sleep somewhere and look and the government should want you to be able to be able to actually not just live for yourself but also be married and have enough or death be married and afford to have a few kids, because that all feeds the economy.

You shouldn't want somebody to be struggling and not afford to, I guess we can't have a kid, or whatever, we can only have one. Well, I guess you need a better job, come on. What you need to do is you need to get out of North Dakota somehow and find yourself a good place where you can get a good income. Exactly, yeah, move to San Francisco where you can't afford to live. We can get a good income exactly i moved to san francisco where you can't afford to live yeah yeah we didn't get a four million dollar shack yeah so i did that it's such a it's to me that's so clear that like no if we raise the minimum wage it helps the

economy certainly sends her but i have a small business and if i raise the minimum wage your employees won't be so shitty that's what'll happen and they won't quit every two weeks yeah how much money should it be though what should the minimum wage be? I think, I mean, I'm not an economist, but I think $15 an hour is not outside the bounds of, you know, for somebody who's like, and I think, I don't even have a problem if you track it to the city. Like, I think some cities

you need $17 an hour, and some cities maybe you need $12. Right. You know, I think that's just the way, because like San Francisco, cost of living, San Francisco has a higher minimum wage than the national minimum wage. Does it? Yes. I don't know what the national minimum wage is, but San Francisco is like $8.50, I think.

Okay. Because they know that it's fucking San Francisco. And it's still not enough, but at least there's the service about we realize that this is the city is not north dakota there's three things that you bring up where people go fucking bananas about climate change racism yes and minimum wage and we've talked about all three of them all right when you start talking about minimum wage the fucking quote-unquote economic experts yeah by the way here's what i've noticed most of them aren't rich one of the people the people that fucking chime in on these discussions i've had deep conversations with these people like

back and forth for a long time but i know zero about economics and so when i've said hey i just think that people should be able to live on the amount of money that they make during the week and people come up with all these reasons why that's bullshit and all these reasons why that's bad for business and all these and i eventually in the conversation i get to how much do you make what do you do are you do you run a business are you no none of them run bucking businesses they all have this idea in their head that america is filled with people and i've read this quote somewhere i forget who who to attribute it to, that think that they are about to become a millionaire, and they want to make sure that there's no laws

in place that are going to fuck them over once they become a millionaire. Yeah, no, it's the reason why people vote against their own personal interests, because I'm going to vote with the, and I'm not trying to, but I'm going to vote with the Republican Party, because they don't want taxes, and one day I'm going to be rich, and I'm not going to want taxes.'m going to vote with the Republican Party because they have, they don't want taxes

and one day I'm going to be rich and I'm not going to want taxes. Even though it's like, well, right now you're getting, some taxes might help you, you know what I mean? Right. Like it would help you,

it would help your community and your neighborhood. But no, one day. So weirdest thing in the world is people that are Republican that are broke that are voting for

corporate interests. Yes, yes. It's like, what are you doing? Because people think that, everybody thinks they're one, not everybody, but a lot of people think they're one lottery ticket away from being in the 1%. Or one step or one invention. Or one jump shot.

Or one, you know. Yeah, yeah. But it's weird how the Republican Party is like a party that supports big business like sort of unequivocally, yet they're more supported by lower-income conservative people. It's the reason why people who don't live in New York like the Yankees, because they feel like they're the best. They're the winning team. And even though it's not connected to them, they just feel like, I want to be with the winners.

It's also the team that is most aligned with Jesus. Is the Yankees most aligned with Jesus? No, Republicans. Oh, Republicans, yes. is the yankees no republicans oh republicans yes no and well republicans by tying patriotism to god yes that swept a whole bunch of people in there i saw a sign in alabama that said america bless god i don't even know what that means but that was a billboard that i saw that was sort of so we're like wait we're is that yes we god bless america but it was actually like putting it was sort of saying no amer America's the God.

America's the God. And I was like, I'm not sure what that means, but clearly I don't think I want to rent a house here. America's better than the creator of the universe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How awesome is that? If you believe in the creator of the universe, America's better than that. So we bless the creator of the universe.

Yes, yes. Just give you a little pat on the head, God. Good job making us. Good job making us. You did a good job. We'll take it from here. Yeah, yeah. We'll take it from here.

That's the new American, US slogan. We'll take it from here. Yeah, yeah. We'll take it from here. That's the new American, U.S. slogan. We'll take it from here. America bless. Oh, there it is. America bless God. I need you at my house. Look at that fucking billboard. Yeah.

Meanwhile, it's a cunty flying lizard. Have you ever met a lizard? I mean, an eagle? No. You ever seen an eagle? No. I saw one last summer for the first time in real life. And you look into the eyes of that heartless monster.

You're like, how the fuck is this our national bird? Yeah. This is our national animal. Aren't they like crazy a little bit? They're dinosaurs. Yeah. They're dinosaurs that survived. If you pulled away all the feathers, and by the way, they think that most dinosaurs had

feathers now. They're starting to reconsider the idea of dinosaurs and feathers. They think a lot of dinosaurs had feathers now. They're starting to reconsider the idea of dinosaurs and feathers. They think a lot of dinosaurs had feathers. So they essentially are fucking dinosaurs. So that gives Steven Spielberg a way to re-release all the Jurassic Park movies. Now with feathers. They don't know what the fuck was on those things.

They don't know what color they were. They know they had some sort of skin. But all they have is bones. And that's speculation. But in more and more. We like to think our lizards are green. So we just make them green. Well, they also think that T-Rex might have been like vulture shaped or vulture colored, like bright red faced and black body because they think that he might have been like intimidating

because they think he was more of a, they think it was more of, instead of a predator, he was more of a carrion eater. He probably stole food away from somebody else who killed it because his body's all fucked up. He doesn't have the arms. He can't really run that good, they think. They also speculate about the Earth's atmosphere being different then. That's one of the reasons why things grew so big.

It was a more oxygen-rich and dense atmosphere. But they think that there's a lot of dinosaurs that had feathers. So a fucking eagle is a dinosaur. So when you're looking at that thing with a bolt cutter for a face, how is this heartless, evil, baby-stealing, flying monster? That's us. America. I don't know.

There's something about that that sounds like America. America. America. Something about that sounds like an eagle flying into the Foxconn factory in China and swooping out the iPhones and taking them away. That sounds kind of like us. And with a baby in one hand, just fucking drops it in the ocean. Yeah, yeah.

That's sort of a thing that happens. Yeah, there are talons, these big, long, that are so good they can steal fish from a river. What you're not mentioning, Joe, is that cavemen were also living with them at the same time. They were riding them. If you go to the Creation Museum. Have you been? No, I've been to that area and heard about it, but I heard it's awesome Yeah, the Creation Museum is supposed to be so awesome. They have like these these lectures they explain Yeah, how dinosaurs were mentioned in the Bible and yes. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah how they were all here together

Did Noah forget them is that what happened? Relate dinosaurs that dinosaur people time yeah yeah i yeah i i love when people get wacky ideas like that in their head and they just ride them out yeah to the very end i think it's so funny because people think that they're supposed to be able to some people and especially in religion it's sort of you know think they're supposed to have be able to some people, and especially in religion, think they're supposed to be able to figure everything out. Everything should be easily explained to them and everything should be like, no,

most shit shouldn't make sense to you. It doesn't have to make sense. You have a job, that's the thing that's supposed to make sense to you. But everything else, you don't have to know why things work the way they are unless that's your job. Let science handle it. There's a lot of people working on that shit. There's also a lot of people that like attribute like really complex mechanisms to like impossibility like they say you're telling me

that 6 14 whatever it was billion years ago something created the universe out of nothing. And then from there, you can see with your eyes. Like, okay. I mean, man, where do we begin? You know what I go? Yes, that's what I'm telling you. Next question. It's like when you're saying, I could never make a cell phone. I don't know what's in a cell phone.

Sure you do. You just got to do the work. Well, yeah, but that's what I'm saying. But I couldn't, if somebody brought me all the parts and said, put it together. And I don't need to know how to do it to believe that it's doing the job. But some people act like they need to know how a thing works for it to make sense. It needs to make sense. They're like, no, you didn't study that.

So you don't know that. Well, you're telling me a single-celled organism can become a giraffe. Yes, I am. Next question. Yeah, it takes millions of years, fucker. Or don't worry about it. Let the people who are who went to college No, I don't trust them because they're all liberal exactly It's a liberals and those queer lovers and those liberals brought you your iPhone. You're not worried about that. So it is true

That's the problem. Yeah, it's not a lot of conservative think tanks creating the most innovative new cell phones Right, that's a weird thing in the a Comforting thing that i like about a lot of these internet based tech based businesses they seem to be very ethical and moral like they seem to have a connect like google especially google and a lot of these companies they they're they're way more open and way more intelligent about their approach to ethics and morals than a lot of like other corporations I mean, yeah, but I think it's probably like if if if

You know, I don't know if Walmart is way over here is not ethical Morco moral Some people would say that Facebook is here. Mmm. They wouldn't say it's like all the way up to the other Facebook is tricky Wait, yeah face. Yeah, I think that like, you know, they own they own all our information They have like, yeah, we have they sell it too and they sell it and You're like, how does this make money if I'm not paying for it? How's the weird thing when you go to Google search something and it shows you all sorts of other shit that you might be interested in on the right-hand side? You're like, wait a minute. How the fuck do you know what I like? Yeah, or the new thing where they show.

I looked up a punching bag. I was thinking about buying a punching bag. Now, every time I go to websites, I'm being advertised for Everlast bags thinking about buying a, I was like, oh, maybe I'll buy a punching bag. And now every time I go to websites, I'm being advertised for Everlast bags. I'm like, I did that one time. I did a half hour looking at punching bags. Went, nah, it's dumb. I'm not going to do that.

Can you just dump your cookies or something like that? I guess you could, but it's just that thing that I don't think about until I'm like, why is it telling me the, or yeah, why is it telling me about, like I've made a reservation at a, this happened this week. I've made a reservation at this hotel I'm staying at.

Now my computer's advertising me to stay at the hotel I'm staying at. No, I've made a reservation at a, this happened this week, I've made a reservation at this hotel I'm staying at. Now my computer's advertising me to stay at the hotel I'm staying at. No, I did it. You already got me. They already got my money. No, I'm not going to, I'm already staying there. Well, it gets even weirder when you have a Google phone. Because when you have a Google phone, it'll tell you, like, you look something up and it'll show you, like, how many minutes that is from your home. And you're like, how the fuck do you know where I live?

Yeah, yeah. It knows where you go every night so it assumes that's your home so it tracks that down and then where you are you're 23 minutes from your home fuck do you know where i live you should leave for work now why do you know what are you telling me or the thing that i find with my google phone the technology is still not working the way i will google something like in la like oh where's that thing just something that's not even it's just like oh where's that thing because i'm curious about where it is okay there's then i was in san diego a couple days ago and it was like it's four hours to that location you googled in los angeles like why would i need to know that now i'm not i'm not going there you're just telling me four hours it's slowly

starting to get smart but it's, but it's not quite there. But if it does get too smart, it's going to be so intrusive. Or I like to say convenient. I mean, you see the movie Her? No. I think it's a good flick. You know what it is? Yeah.

We want that. Maybe not the sex. Well, actually, some of us want the sex part of it. But we want to be able to walk into our home and go, pull up my email, pull up my Netflix queue, and da-da-da-da-da. And you want to go to work and be like, send me that. We want that. That's what this is all about, is that. In a lot of ways.

And in some ways, you're saying, yeah, people say we're giving up privacy. But people are willing to give up privacy if it comes with a coupon and some free stuff. You know what I mean? Until it bites them in the ass. Until it bites them in the ass. And that's the question. We all have a different place where our ass is. We all have different size and shaped asses.

And someone's like, it's not biting me in the ass yet. And I'm like, ow. But the thing with the NSA, it's hard to say they trolled all our data when we're the ones who said here would you like our data would you like our data true you know you download candy crush to your phone and you think i'm just playing a fun game for free and it's like no it's knows where you are now but the real problem is that i didn't know that the government was able to read your emails anytime they won these workers could just like download your dick pics this is funny send them off to each other if edward

snowden is telling the truth i mean obviously i don't know but he said that there's people in his office that were downloading emails from ex-girlfriends and shit and sharing photos and stuff and i feel like you say like people didn't know that and i feel like every black barbershop around the country has been talking about that shit for years black people have always been like the cia you know the cia invented crack you know what i mean like that level of like we're being watched at all times because every time i walk into a store there literally is a guy watching me you know what i mean so i think in the black community i don't think the nsa story was as big of a oh yeah the government's watching us well the black community and the truther community should

get together yeah that never seems to work out because the truth of community goes there was no slavery okay all right guys i had a cia guy in here former cia uh director of operations whatever the fuck he was really nice guy but i played him this guy michael rupert talking about how they were selling drugs he was a former la narcotics officer who uh you like literally caught the cia selling drugs in black communities yeah and was direct it was addressing the director of the CIA at the time, who got fired right after this. And I played it for him on the podcast,

just watching him try to dance around it. Yeah, no. I mean, I let it go after a while, but I didn't even get into Gary Webb or any of the cocaine plane that had been to Guantanamo Bay twice. It crashed with tons of cocaine in it in Mexico. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of evidence that the CIA might have been involved in some form or someone in the CIA. I mean, absolutely.

I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, that's the, you can't, you know, the black people can't flood the ghetto with drugs. How are they getting it? Yeah, you can't, you know, I mean, every now and again there's a Rick Freeway Ross. But that was the guy that I had on the podcast. I had Freeway Ricky on three times. And one of the times that I had him on was he discussed how he got into a connection with this guy who was directly sending the profits to the fucking Contras. sending the profits to the fucking Contras. Yeah.

I mean, the whole Contras and Sandinistas thing in Nicaragua, which was the Oliver North scandal that was on television, was all out on freeway, Ricky selling the Coke. Yes. I mean, it's incredible. And you feel like a little bit, I feel like at least the black guy made some money off of it. Sort of. I mean, yeah, not certainly he, I don't know if he would do it all again. Oh, he wouldn't.

Yeah. He definitely wouldn't. He's an interesting guy. He's learned a lot from it. I mean, he taught himself how to read in jail once he was arrested for that and then found a loophole in the argument that got him arrested for three strikes because it's supposed to be three different charges. And he got two different charges was one time he was arrested.

Okay. And that doesn't count as a three strikes law. So they had to let him out. He was going to be in jail for the rest of his life. He figured that out on his own after he learned how to read in jail. Yeah, I believe it. And it's funny, I met him at a party one time

and it was when I had the show. And so when I had the show, I would get attention from people who normally wouldn't talk to me. And so I met him at a party and he was very nice. He's like, hey man, give me your number. And I just had this weird like okay

i felt like i don't know mr ross if i want you to okay i'll give it to you sir did you see uh jim norton's vice show where he interviewed him i haven't seen it yet it's pretty good yeah very very interesting he's an interesting guy man and you know he's a real deal i mean he really did have a multi multi multi-million dollar cocaine industry and it was really going to the government yes i mean that's a fact yeah no and i feel like again as a person who's sat in a lot of black barbershops in the basement of churches like yeah you don't get to tell me okay i i don't think i don't believe in a lot of conspiracy theories but i, but to me that doesn't feel like a conspiracy theory. That feels like, well, of course, how else would you get cocaine and crack in the ghetto unless somebody was greasing the palms to make that happen and that person worked in the government and that was the government. Well, not only that, if I was sitting around the government and I was sitting around with a bunch of military industrial complex leaders and everyone's going over how to make money, you go, you guys aware how much Coke is getting sold in this country?

Yeah. It's a lot of Coke. We're not going to stop that. Okay? They're going to always. So who's going to make this money? Do we want the fucking Colombians to make the money or should we just make the money? Yeah.

We should probably make the money. Yeah. We're not going to stop Coke. But I feel like I don't know if they even have the we're not going to stop it conversation. I feel like it's like a new stock thing. Hey, Coke's making a lot of money. Let's invest in that. I don't feel like it gets to the, hey, we can't stop the people from, you know, I don't

think it's that godfather discussion where like, they're animals anyway. Let them destroy themselves. I think it's like, oh, that's making a lot of money. Let them lose their souls. Yeah. It's apples making money. We should invest in that. And cocaine in the ghetto is making money.

Not only that, the big impediment, like what's the big problem is law enforcement uh that we got that we got that yeah you're gonna be fine we're under we have we already have that we already have that under control well that's where michael rupert stepped up because he was a former la narcotics officer he was a guy who was involved in busting cases and he told his story in no uncertain terms how he was told to let a case go because it involved the cia he's like what are you fucking saying are you telling me that the cia is selling drugs in the black community no i'm telling you let this case go because this case that you busted people is actually the cia what the fuck are you, yes. And that's why we have the police. That's why the black community has a problem with police in this country.

One reason, right? Yeah, it's hard to believe that that's the voice of authority if you feel like the voice of authority is not honoring its own authority. You know, it's interesting. The Bay Area is also interesting because of Oakland, which the police are notoriously horrible. Yes. Extra horrible. Yeah yeah why is that

i mean because oakland's crazy because no it's not because oakland's i mean oakland now is becoming gentrified so oakland is now one of the cities that you find in america's top places for people to live white people so white people yeah it's because it's becoming gentrified so oakland is really is really struggling with the fact that it's being gentrified very quickly. But it's just communities that are not even majority black. Because as much as people think Oakland's a black city, it's like 30% black. It's not, you know, people go, it's funny how few black people you have to have. People go, there's a lot of black people in here.

30% is more than the national average. It is more than the national average, but it ain't 70%. What makes, what's the national average? It's like 11, I think, it's like somewhere around 12 or 11. Well, guess what makes what's the national average it's like 11 i think it's like somewhere around 12 or 11 well guess what if you have 11 that's a black neighborhood exactly 11 black people exactly yeah most white neighborhoods are 100 white yeah and that's weird and if a black family moves in it's like what's happening yeah what's going on over there what's going on over here so oakland like a lot of cities that are thought of to be black cities are over policed and underserved you know because people that to me it's like it's just an it's a structural institutional racism problem

that that for example and we can talk about it or not talk about it but so that if a guy walks down the middle of the street saying like like sort of being a teenager who's a loud guy walking down the street a white teenager might get told get the fuck out of the street saying like like sort of being a teenager who's a loud guy walking down the street a white teenager might get told get the fuck out of the street and the guy will I'm not getting out of the street dude grab him put him on the corner don't do that shit again but a black teenager who walks down the middle of the street and goes I'm not getting out of the street ends up dead

is my opinion on that situation that we get that even with that things that would be that would be sort of like if you're white they would be like alright let's see we're not going to make a big deal out of this that when you're, it can end up in your death because of the approach to policing black people in this country. Do you think that that's a problem inherent with police officers or is it because they're dealing with so much violence that's coming from black people? Is it because they've been told to handle cases differently? I think it's the – America was founded on racism.

So I think it's a – I'm not going to necessarily say cops are the problem. Cops – the way people, black people are policed is a symptom of the fact that America, the cornerstone of America is racism. And everything we built was on that. And that's why people want to have – when you want to have the reparations discussion, it's like, you know how we got a lot of cheap labor in this country? Like, you know, how do we get to be the richest country in the world for a while? Because we had a 400-year head start on the labor. You know what I mean? Like, we weren't paying, people weren't being paid to build this country.

So I think that when the cornerstone of this country is founded on racism and the people who police the country are trying to protect the country's reputation and name that means a lot of times they they use racism racism as a part of how they police the country how can you ever fix a scenario where the entire culture was established with slave labor if if a giant percentage of what made america what it is was established because of slave labor how does that get fixed, how does that ever balance it out? Does it just come naturally over a course of a long period of time? No, it definitely doesn't come naturally. Does it have to be socially engineered?

It has to be, yeah. Something has to jumpstart the process. I think that you can't say affirmative action in this country without some people going, but then a white man won't have a job. But actually, it's like you man won't have a job. And it's like, but actually it's like, you have to jumpstart the process. You have to, and maybe it's, for me, it's like if I literally said that,

I said this earlier, if every black person in this country was given therapy, because I feel like being black in America, you have a mild form of PTSD or a severe form of PTSD, depending upon where you live. And if you made it, and you guaranteed that the schools

in the inner city were good, that they were well-funded public schools where you could get where you could be. You may not get a good education here, but this is a place where good education happens easily. And that's not true of most schools in the inner city. And if you said and if you made it friendly for major grocery stores to be in the inner city so that, you know, you've been in a poor neighborhood. You're like, that's the grocery store, you you know where it's not a major chain grocery store it's a 99 cent store that also has fruit you know what i mean it's like that you you said that if you made it so that it was friendly for those companies companies move there because a lot of the gentrification happens it's like people know their neighborhoods being gentrified when the 99 cent

close store closes down and a whole foods opens and they're like, oh, finally, we can't afford to shop there. Right. So you have to change the structures of the neighborhoods. You have to change the structures of how people are living their lives. And there's no motivation to do that. No, I think that the only hope that we have of that is that you know there's a professional sports i look at that like the money that is being made in professional sports like there are some of these guys a lot of these guys are going to go broke but in a in a hundred years we'll be dealing with

the jordan foundation the way we're dealing with the rockefellers you know what i'm saying well magic johnson did a lot of that that at some point i hope that some of these people who have this like fuck you money can actually figure out a way to port back in but they can't necessarily charter schools like Jalen Rose as a charter school that specifically in Detroit to go. I need to help jumpstart this situation myself, but it's hard to rely on individuals to do that. And until America goes, it's in our best interest to make poor neighborhoods better and easier. And I'm not just about black. It's just in general poor neighborhoods better. It will make a better country until the government feels like that's an important thing.

And also, you know, we have this one president. Barack is pretty good and pretty liberal, but we don't know what the next one is going to look like. And then the next one is going to look like until the country sort of as a whole goes, you know, that we get to that tipping point where we need to, we should, all the schools should be good. Yeah. Healthcare shouldn't bankrupt you. No. You know, you know without healthcare it shouldn't bankrupt you no you know you shouldn't you shouldn't get you shouldn't have a car accident it's amazing that we have to even say these things yeah so it seems like it should be like the staples of a culture

yeah that you know community in the uk they go what do you mean you went broke because you had because you got a broken leg or something you know well i always think of in terms of what is the number one resource that we have in America. It's not natural resources. It's human beings. And wouldn't America be stronger if there were less people that were losers? Yes. So what's the best way to make less people losers?

Work with children. I feel like, yeah. I think they should have community centers. And any poor neighborhood should have a place where kids can escape that's really well staffed with people that are excellent counselors people that are teaching sports and martial arts and and places where kids can work on their their studying they have computers to use to access for books and all kinds of other shit so that they have a place so they can get in away from the crime and just that alone will stop a lot of fucking crime yeah and it'll give kids a place where they can, they have a home away from home.

They have something. So if their parents work during the day and they don't, they don't want to go home and just stare at the walls, they have somewhere to go to. They have people that they can look up to that can help them. Counselors. And you're, you're giving people more of a chance to be a successful human. When you do that, you're strengthening the country. Yeah.

That's, and I don't think people see it that way. They see somehow like it's again to hand out their animals, their animals, animals up by your bootstraps. Yeah, yeah, which to me is like Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. And I think that people don't it's so stupid It's like if you have an infection in your finger and you let it go it's going to kill you You know what? I mean like you have to sort of go we need to address this and there's and we can either Address it now or we can wait until like, you do we have to burn down ferguson missouri to get more cops to patrol yeah my place in connecticut yeah we need to get that cut our cops need tanks our cops definitely need tanks

because those black people in ferguson yeah yeah cannons and drones that people don't take it they don't take it seriously and i think that that's the until people go oh if we if stronger communities lead to a stronger america there should be things like you said there should be things that are taken for granted and you know how they're going to do that how taxes from marijuana yes exactly that's how that's my solution ladies and gentlemen legalized marijuana 39 tax like colorado's doing hundreds of millions of dollars at your disposal and i've heard the thing about the the i don't know if they figured it out but like because you're you you can't because the federal government hasn't legalized marijuana there's all this money that the pot dispensaries are making they're slowly starting they can't put in the bank exactly just like oh come on america yeah

well it's that's the federal government trying to fuck with people that's what it is not only that they're arresting people that are using these these federal parks like they're smoking weed in states where it's legal yeah but they go to the park and they they spark up a joint in a state park and then the federal government comes in and arrests them even though barack obama i think has been pretty clear about they're not trying to prosecute the president of the united states says we're not trying to go after these things well he has been pretty clear about that however his administration in the dea has prosecuted a lot of fucking people in states where medical marijuana is legal they've the the other thing they do which is really cute is they arrest people they take all their weed they take all

their money and then they say the case is pending and they just have to sit there and they don't do anything about it but they stole five hundred thousand dollars from them and a million dollars worth of weed and then just sitting there waiting to find out whether or not you're going to go to jail yeah and some of them do i have a friend who's gone to jail because of it i know several people that have gone to jail during the obama administration no you're selling medical marijuana that's legal so he's kind of full of shit when it comes to that he's i mean you know i i like i like brock i'm not in love with him anymore uh but what happened did you guys break up we broke up what caused it what caused it for me the thing that actually caused it over and over again was every time there was like um like troy davis the guy was in death row in texas who people were like the evidence says that

he didn't do it and there were people like i remember on twitter people like say something brock say something just and people well, it's not his jurisdiction. Every time there's an issue that falls squarely on the head of black people in this country, and Barack sort of tippy-toes around it or doesn't address it head-on soon enough, I feel like that's why we elected a black president. That's why black people went out to vote is because we wanted somebody who had our back. And every time he doesn't, and he can't fix problems. I don't expect him to fix things.

But when it takes him four days to talk about ferguson and as he says he didn't want to say anything too quickly or he want to say because he didn't want to be seen as putting his thumb on the scale of justice i'm like oh dude that's why i elected you i wanted your thumb on the scale of justice yeah and that's because that's what we it's again we need to jump start the system and so for me the stuff like that with uh you know with the sort of the – and again, yes, if he talks about Trayvon Martin, people go – but I'm going, yeah, well, that's the job. The job is to get yelled at sometimes. The job is to have a hard week because you take a good stance. If you take a stance anyway, you're going to get yelled at. Pro or con.

Yeah. If he took an Andrew Zimmerman stance, he would have got yelled at. George, what are the fuck his name is? Or he took a Trayvon Martin stance. Whoever side he sided on, you're going to face an assault of opinion. But my contention is that black people rallied around a black president because they're like, we need, you know, born again Christians had a voice in the White House with George W. Bush. And George W. Bush did not hide his born again Christian-ness.

He didn't. He said God all the time. He said we're God's, you know, that stuff. and christianness he didn't he said god all the time he he said where god's you know that stuff whereas barack you know he he he's clearly walking a fine line which i get it i wouldn't want to trade places with him i wouldn't want to be the first black president or the fifth black president or the any president or any president white president you did take the job you did go get you didn't you didn't get assigned the job don't you think that that job's unimaginably difficult and almost unmanageably difficult? It is, but you took the job.

Yeah. I'm not, you know, I'm not, yeah, it is. But just, you know, everything is, we all have our things we pick and it's hard to do. It's hard to be a stand-up comedian, but we took the job. I'm not saying it's, I'm not comparing it to being a president. But I think a stand-up comedian, you can actually do it. You get in the White white house you can't actually be the president you're like you're not really the president i think you get in there man

you are faced with just a fucking tidal wave of special interest groups and money and pull and push probably it's probably similar to having your own late night talk show they go this is how it's done you're going to do a cold opening but i don't want to do a cold opening except you never get to that john stewart position where you tell everybody to fuck off no But I don't want to do a cold opening Except you never get to that Jon Stewart position Where you tell everybody to fuck off No because you don't get to be president For 20 years Well he did it in two

But it's a lot The Daily Show is not the country Yeah no it's not the country Dude we're out of time We just did three hours I knew I was coming in here For the long haul Flew through man

Flew through I was just trying to keep the ball up in here That was fun What are you doing next? Is there any You have any projects in the works that people could look forward to? Yeah, I do. I have a big project in the world.

First of all, I'm taking a month off because my wife's going to have our second kid, but people can't look forward to that. But then in November, I'm going on my most extensive tour ever. Okay, cool. Beautiful. Yeah, it's called the Oh Everything Tour. Oh Everything. Oh Everything.

What's wrong? Oh Everything. Oh, everything. Oh, everything. What's wrong? Oh, everything. So I will be hitting many markets that I've never hit before and then places I love to go to. Beautiful.

Yeah. So your website? WKMAUBELL.com. Okay. W-K-A-M-A-U-B-E-L-L.com. Or Twitter and Facebook. I'm on WKMAUBELL, at WKMAUBELL. If you look up WKMAUBELL, I'm the one at this point.

Dude, do an internet show, man. Just do your show on the internet. You know, it's, like I said, getting out of of new york and like sort of the haze has been lifted and the storm has passed over and i feel like oh i i've had like i've just gotten back into stand-up again i'm like oh it's the guy i remember that i was okay yeah but i'm a little bit wiser i like this guy so it's coming something i'm working on some stuff beautiful listen man it's been a lot of fun thank you very much i really appreciate the conversation it's been an honor man thanks thank you sir all right kamal bell ladies and gentlemen see you soon big kiss on some stuff. Beautiful. Listen, man, it's been a lot of fun. Thank you very much. I really appreciate the conversation. It's been an honor, man. Thanks. Thank you, sir.

All right. Kamau Bell, ladies and gentlemen. See you soon. Big kiss. Mwah.