The Joe Rogan Experience - #579 - Rory MacDonald

Episode Date: November 25, 2014

Rory MacDonald is a Canadian mixed martial artist currently signed with the UFC fighting in the Welterweight division. He is a former King of the Cage Lightweight Champion.

Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day! him from the UFC, one of the top welterweight contenders in the world. You might know him from Metamorris, which is probably the premier grappling event in North America. We just competed this past weekend. Roy McDonald, ladies and gentlemen. What's up, buddy? Not much, man. Thanks for having me. Thanks for doing this. So you're in town. You did some competing at Metamorris against JT Torres, who's a top-level Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu competitor. Really good. And that's unusual that a guy who's in your position,

who's a top welterweight contender in MMA, decides to test himself in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Why did you decide to do that? I think I want to test myself in as many martial arts as I can. That's why I kind of got into it and why I started fighting. The whole competitive and testing my martial arts as I can. That's why I kind of got into it and why I started fighting, you know, the whole competitive and testing my martial arts skill against someone else at the highest level. You know, so Metamorris was a great setup.

I like the rules, the concept of it, so I asked if I could be a part of it, and, you know, it all worked out. Oh, that's cool. So you approached them. Yeah, yeah. That's interesting, man. Metamorris, for folks who don't know, the idea behind it is they don't have any points, which I like. worked out oh that's cool so you approach them yeah yeah that's interesting man you know metamors

if for folks who don't know the idea behind it is they don't have any points which i like yeah i like that um i almost kind of wish they had no time limit you know like the time limit is kind of like real jujitsu like when you talk to like hoist or you talk to you know alio back in the day they would they would say you know that especially in mixed martial arts, they need time. Like they're all about just a war of attrition, just slowly but surely keeping a pace on a guy until he makes a mistake and then you eventually catch him. But a lot of the Metamorris matches like yours go to draw because after 20, is 20 minute time limit for yours?

Yeah. They go to 20 minute time limit. And if no one has submitted each other, it winds up being a draw. But you guys were both going for it. It was only a draw because of the time right now. I mean, you attacked with a leg lock that got pretty close. He attacked with Kimura.

I mean, it was a pretty wild, fast-paced match. Yeah, there was a lot that happened. If there was points, he would have definitely beat me. But, you know, like you were it's it's nice to have no points so you can maybe you're more comfortable working out of side control on the bottom rather than guard or right so you're not too worried about letting him pass right or getting mount or something you know so like if you've seen um gary tonin he lets guys mount him just so he can leg lock him. Right.

I train with that guy. I won't mount him. What does he do? Does he do the legs over the top? How does he mount you? He does like a kipping thing with his legs. He'll get his hips underneath of you, then he'll go to the ashtagrammy and take the leg. So he goes sideways?

He almost does a 180 and takes the leg. Huh. Yeah. If you watch the match, you'll see him do it. There's a lot of guys that are coming up with all these wild techniques now. I was just watching some, Jeff Glover has some crazy new technique where he goes from being caught in side control to a heel hook. Like he was demonstrating it but it's just the the beautiful thing about jiu-jitsu one of the most amazing things about jiu-jitsu is it seems to be constantly changing and evolving like mma is evolving and

changing constantly and mma is constantly incorporating techniques that we already knew worked in in martial arts, like whether it's Muay Thai techniques or Taekwondo techniques. You're seeing all these being introduced into MMA, but we're not seeing new striking techniques. The techniques have kind of been around for a long time. Whereas with Jiu-Jitsu, it seems like it never ends. Yeah, if you're away for like five months you're you're behind the ball

big time because there's so much going on all the time isn't that weird yeah it's weird it's a crazy sport it's exciting it's yeah exciting to be a part of well it's one of my favorite uh martial arts because i just think that it's there's a lot of good things about it where um first of all it's the martial art where a small person can beat a big person because when you watch like a bruce lee movie and you see some little guy just throwing flying kicks and knocking out all these big dudes the reality of it is that that there's a reason for weight classes and one of the big reasons is like for striking and for just overwhelming someone yeah weight classes are important but i've seen time and time again

smaller guys submit bigger guys in jujitsu and that was the whole thing that was so impressive about hoist gracie in the early days of the ufc since they didn't know jujitsu he was submitting guys that were way bigger and stronger than him yeah yeah that's the great thing about jujitsu you know when i started i was a tiny kid, smaller than average when I first started martial arts. And that's why I took to jiu-jitsu so fast, because I was able to neutralize or even beat bigger guys. Yeah, which doesn't really, I mean, you very rarely see that in kickboxing. A guy has to be, like, way better. Yeah, they can overwhelm you with their power and size and smother you, right?

Like Bob Sapp versus Ernesto Ho hoost it's a perfect example yeah if you've never seen that match uh jamie pull that up so people i don't know if that'll get us pulled from youtube that's that's our if whenever we say pulled from youtube people are uh taking shots now they're gonna they're gonna die uh we'll pull it up so you get a people well if you've if you you listening to this just google bob sap versus ernesto hoost and what who ernesto hoost was former k1 grand prix champion one of the most technical kickboxers ever in the history of kickboxing he was just uh and he's actually fighting again now which is pretty incredible but he was just, and he's actually fighting again now, which is pretty incredible. But he was just an amazing technical kickboxer. And he embodied that Dutch style of kickboxing.

Very strong, low kicks, really good boxing. And he fought this guy named Bob Sapp, who was a former football player who was 99% steroids. I mean, he literally, I mean, as ju juice to the tits as a person you get he was 350 pounds with abs and doesn't even look like a real person like when you see him you're like that can't be real he's so big and all he did was just overwhelm ernesto hooth just push him into the corner and just kind of donkey kong him. Yeah, not much technique there. No, very little. I mean, it's all just size and mass and

even the way he's throwing his punches, he's just winging his punches. And he's one of the few guys that Fedor Emelianenko allegedly passed on fighting. He didn't want to fight him. He just said, listen, come on, stop. Because when Fedor was the heavyweight champion, he fought big guys. He fought fighting he didn't want to fight him he just said listen come on stop because you know when

fedor was the heavyweight champion he fought big guys he fought semi schilt um he fought uh that that giant korean dude what was his name the guy was literally a giant remember that guy yeah he fought big guys you know in a small ring it's not ideal for a more technical guy either right so you could just get pushed up against the ropes and you can't do anything there so sap eventually goes down from i think a leg kick or a left hook to the body he got hit with something but to his credit he got up and i think it was leg kicks arastro who's just so beautiful in his technique but he was being outweighed by about 150 pounds which is not a small guy no i mean he's a heavyweight yeah and uh that's just an example of the difference between

like say jujitsu and kickboxing because if this was like hicks and gracie in his prime versus bob sap and it was just a jujitsu match he would eventually get him he would hang him. Yeah, so it was a leg kick that dropped him, it looks like. He was never good at taking damage. Bob Sapp? No, he was not. Well, he, you know, he had a relatively short time in fighting, and then along the way, what he did was he, you know, kind of just started taking dives. Like, he would get hit.

Selling fights. Yeah, I mean, he'd sell the fights and you know make a big hype out of it and then somewhere along the line he just kind of you know we get hit and then he would go down in a fetal position but i think they stopped the fight right here look he goes down it's incredible anyway we don't have to watch the rest of it but it's the best example of the difference between jujitsu and say kickboxing or or striking where the size can make a pretty big difference because skill-wise i mean you're dealing with like a blue belt there versus a black belt in ernesto hoost

jujitsu is also this martial art where leverage and technique and positions it's it seems to be like this continual flow of techniques like you never you you've never learned enough you've never gotten good enough and even guys who have been around it a long time when they stop learning and they stop applying new techniques to their game you see them get beaten by young guys that have all these new techniques. They're just not familiar with the positions. Right. Yeah.

The jiu-jitsu now is definitely a lot different. You know, when I go to New York and train at Henzo's, like, there's always something new that catches me by surprise for the first day or two, you know, and I have to make sure that I'm watching out for that. So, you know, even I get caught in it every second month going down there, you know. Yeah, there's nothing... And Henzo has just a fucking lion's den of killers down there, too. It's like a room of black belts. Have you gone to Tenth Planet at all?

Have you trained down there with Eddie? No, but I'd like to. I'll set it up. Let me know when you want to go. He'll help you. I actually leg dragged him in the hall at Metamorris. He fell on dragged him in the hall of metamors he's got a back problem right now oh really that probably didn't help it no no he's got uh he's dealing with some back spasms he's uh you know he works his guard so much it's like so lower back intensive so he's doing a lot of rehab stuff and we were talking

about this before the show but that is a big issue with fighters is like back injuries it's one of the most difficult to overcome because so many guys get them and then their their skill level deteriorates whereas like if you get a knee injury you get sold uh surgery on it like george st pierre came back it's better than ever you know the guys can come back from knee surgery. Conor McGregor, better than ever. Right. Yeah, I constantly have to be keeping up with my back maintenance.

Like, I had to pull out of a fight because of a neck problem. So my neck and back is a constant thing that I have to watch and have therapy done on two, three times a week, you know. What kind of therapy do you do? Massage and osteo all the time. It doesn't stop for me or else I just like stiffen up and I'm like, yes, you know, with the amount of training I'm doing. But I like to do like a warm-up and a cool-down before every single training session with different exercises to like activate my muscles in my back stretching it um yeah i do a lot of planks like just like planking exercise that's pretty good

for my back as well um that machine you just showed me in the back reverse hyper yeah we have one of those at tri-star i should probably start using that a lot more than that thing's incredible yeah that thing's incredible. Yeah. That thing's incredible. It was created, we were talking about it, it was created by this guy, Louis Simmons, who's this powerlifting legend, who's like, I think he's 67 or something crazy like that,

who's this fucking enormous dude who still deadlifts some insane amount of weight, and he injured his back. They were going to do surgery. They wanted to fuse his discs, and he wouldn't let them, and he figured out a way to make a machine that actively decompresses your spine and strengthens it at the same time. It's very difficult to describe the motion. So if anybody's interested, if you have any sort of a back injury, Google reverse hyper.

And I got mine from Rogue Fitness. But there's a couple companies that sell them, including Westside Barbell, which is Louie Simmons' company. Right. He invented it. It's an amazing thing, but for fighters, just a giant tool to strengthen your core and build up your spinal column.

I bet you can see him. He's like fucking 70 in this picture. He's an enormous dude. But the maintenance and the physical therapy and all that stuff how do you schedule that in do you have someone who does your schedule as far as like your i do it you do everything strength and conditioning all your stuff yeah how do you organize it just over time it's just like you kind of you know i've been at tri-star for like seven years now so like over time you kind of figure out what to take away,

what to put in on that day and see what works out. So it's just a gradual progression of learning where things fit in on certain days. Do you keep a journal, like a training journal? No. No? Just all in your head? Yeah. Now when you're preparing for a fight, say if you have a big fight coming up, like your last fight with Tarek Safedine, and you're concentrating on a guy who's a kickboxer do you go more kickboxing

heavy do you do no not really it's I kind of just I kind of just go with my gut feeling of what I feel like I want to do at that period of time um I've, I've been doing a lot of jiu-jitsu. I've just been feeling excited about it, so I follow that excitement. Sometimes I really feel like doing a lot of kickboxing, so I find that my schedule is not completely kickboxing, but it dominates the week mostly. You're one of the few guys that's come along in mma you're like the new crop guys who didn't have a background in wrestling you didn't have a background in karate

you're you're just from the beginning you started in mixed martial arts yeah yeah i started at 14 uh out of tushido mixed martial arts in colonna and i was just lucky enough to stumble upon an MMA gym for my first martial arts gym so that's just how it all came about I guess it was just a blessing you know you're you're not the type of guy like if I didn't know you yeah you know if I met you I was normal peaceful dude seems pretty you know like there's you can meet certain dudes and they got this guy like you've met Josh Barnett you're like you meet certain dudes and they got this kind like you've met josh barnett you're like yeah i could see that guy being a fire he's a little fucking intense a little high strung yeah you're like very mellow and like even keeled i like to be yeah

for sure yeah is that on purpose or is this just your personality naturally i think naturally it is but then there's the other side too right where everyone calls me fucking psycho yeah lot of people were wondering, like, what the fuck is this dude actually like? Because, like, pull up that. This is fucking the death stare. The Rory McDonald death stare. Where is this? Where is this coming from, man? Like, is that just natural?

Yeah. Like, this death stare that you have when when you fight are you aware of it in the zone i guess you're not even blinking dude yeah well at when i was fighting tarik you know he uh i caught him like just staring at me when i was coming in and it kind of made me like i don't know what the best way to say it kind of like alpha male like i was just like you're like we were fighting for our territory so we were just like you know like a couple of dogs staring down at each other before we were about to fight i don't know it kind of felt like that some guys avoid that you know boss root used to avoid eye contact he didn't make eye contact it doesn't bother me either way like i don't think

me staring at them is going to make me win the fight. Right, right, right. It has nothing to do with that. I totally believe in skill over any of the psychological battles or being bigger or smaller. But I guess it just happens. It just happens and you just go with it. The same thing. Yeah. You're just like, fuck this. I'm staring them down. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm not going to look away and make me feel like I'm a bitch. That's a weird moment though, right? Yeah, it is awkward, I guess. When you get into the Octagon, regardless on who you're fighting, how important the fight is, do you have a routine that you go through mentally? Do you have a preparation that you go through? No.

a routine that you go through mentally? Do you have like a preparation that you go through? No. If anything, I'm just thinking about techniques in my head. But sometimes I'm not thinking about anything. I just can't wait till they ring that bell because they make you wait for so long anyway. Right. Is that the hardest part?

Is it the anticipation? Not really. I'm kind of used to it by now. Has it become like as you've fought more and more guys, higher and higher level, has it become like more and more like relaxed to you or more normal? Yeah, it's normal. Especially when you're fighting like I've been real busy the last year or two. So every fight now seems like it's just like I remember this feeling.

Right. Yeah. That's big, right? Yeah, it is. That's why you see a guy this feeling right yeah that's big right yeah it is that's why you see a guy like dominic cruz it's out for three years it makes his fight even more impressive when he just yeah he fought mitsugaki and steamrolled him yeah he did do very well incredible fucking look better than he's ever looked yeah when you see a guy like that though um you know you're making a living off of your body i mean you make a living with your body i mean and your goals are predicated on the health of your body and you see like a guy

like dominic cruz who tore his acl and then he tore his hamstring and tore his acl again i mean he had a lot fucking series of serious fucking injuries like shit almost three years out right does that freak you out when you see shit like that yeah yeah that would suck that would suck uh i guess yeah i just hope to god that never happens to me yeah yeah that's that's a massive hurdle to overcome props to him for coming back and yeah and that guy is good too he's very good he's very good he's he's like the bar setter when it comes to footwork and movement when you see a guy like that who runs into such a massive hurdle like a three-year absence from the sport like that does that make you change your preparation anyway or be a little bit more cautious or be a little bit more diligent about strength and conditioning or

rehab or anything like that no it is like other people's lives don't really influence mine i'm just i just uh i feel like i go with the flow a lot you know if uh you know if i see something that would be beneficial to me then i'll do it or if i'm i want to go a certain direction in my martial arts career, then I'm going to go that. I don't care if it didn't work out so well for that guy. I'm going to go down that path. I follow my instincts and my excitement. It's such a fascinating way to pursue a goal in life, to pursue a goal of becoming a champion mixed martial arts fighter.

There's so few people that you can kind of like figure out how to do it from maybe it's like best that you have this mentality just figure out yourself you can't fear you can't let fear into your life you know or else it's just going to take over right and you know just because this guy hurt his knee and was out for three years shouldn't stop me from going and fighting for what I want. Right. Maybe you could take some precautions and do things a little bit smarter. Now, when you say things like you can't let fear into your life or into your mind,

do you actively try to block that out? Is this something that you work on? Yeah, I would say so. It's like, I guess the best example is just going into a fight. You see some guys are terrified, and it works for them, like George. Right, right, right. But I'm not scared at all. I'm nervous.

I definitely have nerves. I'm not going to lie about that you know the anticipation of it and i think it's natural to just your body just knows what it's about to go do but i i'm not gonna fear what i'm about to do i'm gonna take it head on and i'm gonna conquer it so when george would fight he would have like some serious nerves yeah he's terrified it's so funny it's crazy when you think he's you know the best welterweight ever yeah yeah it's crazy like all week before his fight he just won't stop talking about how scared he is really it's just it's really funny actually but why does he dwell on it

i don't know it's just it's just how he prepares for fights and it's interesting i don't i don't relate to it at all it's he's a fascinating guy because he will tell everyone what his fears are tell everyone what his weaknesses are it's almost like he's setting himself up to have to overcome those things yeah i don't know why he does that because he performs so well i mean he has he has all, it's like, traditionally, like, if you would tell someone, like, what's the best thing to concentrate on? Concentrate on positive things. Focus on the positive. But then you look at George and the achievements that he's been able to make and, you know, he's the greatest welterweight of all time.

Yeah. Maybe it makes it that much more impressive, know that he you know he has all these fears and he overcomes them he forces himself to push through that anyway that's interesting well what's interesting with george is just a couple different versions of george just like the play it safe george is to try to win george and then there's a george that fought bj penn that was legitimately fucking pissed off like you know what i mean like when he fought matt sarah the second time yeah yeah legitimately pissed off but i think like matt sarah as a person didn't bother him as much as bj did bj got under his skin like i remember like

when bj was telling him that he was going to be fighting to the death yeah and you know you could see george is like you motherfucker like talking all this crazy shit like you know calling him you can't help but let that some of that stuff set like bug you right yeah but it seemed like that was like one of his most impressive performances like he wasn't just trying to win that fight he was trying to beat the fuck out of people yeah you know what i mean it was like a different thing yeah you know but it also has to do i think with the skill level of your opponent um and and the style of fight the the way the fight's going you know i don't think george intentionally tries to play it safe he's constantly fighting the best guy in the world for 10 years in a row because he's the champ right so it's the guy the next guy at his

best peaking for this the moment the most important moment in his martial arts career he's got to fight that guy for 10 years or however long he held that belt in a row people don't really take that into equation yeah you know he's always got to be the best in the world you know yeah people always say that like oh he hasn't finished anybody like look at the fuck people he's fighting and not just that they're at their best yeah they're not just training for another fight this is the their moment yeah so yeah it's quite impressive and i think people forget about that sometimes it is and you know what is what was equally impressive was that he had the the awareness to step away. To say, you know what? I just need to take a break.

Yeah. And there's been talk about him returning. And I know he's starting to train again. And he's training and enjoying it. And he's not making any decisions. But I appreciate the fact that with all the money that's on the line. All the money that he could potentially be earning. All the pressure to get him to fight again.

That he had the presence of mind to go you know what let me just step back yeah yeah i think it's just a part of knowing yourself and i think it's important like the guy has no life if you get if you've seen how this guy trains you'd be blown away i'd never met anyone who trains that hard really Really? Yeah, he's got OCD, so it's like everything has to be perfect, and his training is like he can't miss a day, even if he's exhausted or he's feeling like shit. The guy is just a workhorse. That's what it takes, right?

For some guys. For me, not so much. No? I tried doing that, and it just didn't work for me. That's interesting it takes, right? For some guys. For me, not so much. No? I tried doing that and it just didn't work for me. That's interesting. Yeah. So you have your own protocol. Like you decide.

Yeah, I go with how I'm feeling. I think that's smart. After Metamorris, you know, I've been here for a couple days now. And I could have went training, but I felt like crap. I'm sore. My arm hurts. So I'm chilling. And then tomorrow i'll probably

i'll go train because i'll be i'll be into it you know and then i'll be excited to train you know and i'll get the most out of that training session i'll be aware i'll be listening to the guys around me and i'll be and i'll be i'll take as much as i can out of that training session and feel good about it and for me personally i feel like my skills increase more that way when i go to the gym like like uh strict two two days you know every single day my body breaks down and i'm at the training session i'm like i don't care about what anyone says you know i'm just getting through it rather than taking part in it. I've had conversations with many trainers about this.

And one of the things that a lot of people are in agreement is that there is an unrealistic expectation about what your body can go through that may be based on a lot of guys who use drugs, a lot of guys who use performance-enhancing drugs. There's guys who will tell you they're training three times a day seven days a week and yeah if you're doing that if they are doing that they have to be taking some shit I have no idea how anyone could like my body is dying you know after half a week of training once a day you know so i don't know how these guys do that man it's it blows my mind i i just i just stay away from it well the demands of mma are so different than any

other sport because you're essentially learning three major sports you know you're learning striking you're learning kickboxing you're learning wrestling and you're learning jujitsu yeah i mean there's three of them together and you're incorporating them with strategy and different positions fucking crazy combinations like look at john jones you can yeah just he's so he's like an artist out there you know yes yeah yeah intertwining them too is it's like an art of its own yeah it's such a all-encompassing sort of a competition which is why a guy like george with ocd a guy who just is training constantly and relentlessly is why excels in this because he can ramp it to a point where a lot of people just can't keep up with him it works for him yeah it works for him did you try

when you first came to tri-star seven years ago um you were a guy who i mean how old are you now 25 25 so you were fucking god damn dude 18 you were 18 when you came to tri-star and so you were doing well you were you know you were starting to uh to fight and you were starting to excel in your techniques. You just realized, I need to go to where the best gym in the country is. Yeah, I'd come down there to visit when I wasn't fighting or just to get a weekend of training with the guys and just see what another gym was like because I've only been at one gym, trained with those people.

So I wanted to explore martial arts a little bit and uh the amount of talent there and the technical approach there i i felt that i could really excel with that yeah for us a hobby i was hoping that he was going to be able to make it in here but he's got some family obligations just had a daughter i love that dude yeah fascinating guy yeah and one of the best coaches like he's got the one thing that drives me crazy is when I listen to coaches in between rounds and they just say nonsense like you gotta get after him you gotta knock him out like get out of there one of BJ's fights it was like you got to get him BJ do it he lo style or something

like they were saying like some crazy shit I was like does he have anybody in there that can give him some fucking technical advice yeah it's crazy like tell him what is going wrong step off to the left you know change levels do something you gotta you gotta give him some i understand that approach in some situations if the guy's just sleeping right and he's just not willing to work you got to wake him up but for me i need someone to give me the technical advice right because i'm in there fighting trying to figure this puzzle out you know and and fraz and john donahue do a really excellent job with giving me those those pieces of the puzzle right yeah donahue a another guy an unheralded brilliant guy yeah love talking to that guy yeah he's a he's a smart guy he was a guy that i wound up talking to

i worked out with george once we worked out on spinning back kick technique yeah i've seen that doing it through donna her because donna her came to me and he said he's like i need to find someone who uh has got a and you know we wound up talking about spinning back kick technique and then i worked out with george but you talked to john and he's just this weird quiet encyclopedia of information when it comes to martial arts he's got a very yeah he's like a savant yeah it's yeah he's an incredible guy he's a brilliant dude yeah really unheralded like i don't think people in the business understand yeah he's not into it for the media or the attention. At all. He has such a deep passion for martial arts and finding out how to beat another person.

He's just a genius. I heard his skill level on the mat is incredible, too. Yeah, and the way he teaches, too. The things he's coming up with are just so cutting edge. What a mind. That's a big part of success in MMA, isn't it? Surrounding yourself with great training partners and having minds like that as coaches. Yeah.

For a coach, you need someone just as dedicated on the other side of the fence as you are doing the physical work. You know, because, you know because you know you need you need that skill you need to be able to to take what take the skill from them and and put it into your physical training right right yeah that's what duane ludwig brought to team alpha male and you see what a massive impact that's yeah. Because he's just as crazy about coaching as those guys are about fighting. I mean, if you ever meet Dwayne, he's got just notebooks and fucking stacks of shit that he's into, and he's constantly revising the routines and the drills that he runs guys through

and sizing things up. Like when TJ Dillashaw beat Hennon Burrow, I had lunch with Ludwig that day, and Dwayne's... Have you ever talked to Dwayne? No, not really. He's a maniac. You talk to him, he's talking a million miles an hour. What's he going to do?

He's like one of those dudes. And he's like, what are you going to do? He's got to step off to the left. He's got to make sure that when Burrow attacks, he attacks, he overcommits, he stays flat-footed, he does this, what T.J.'s going to do, he's going to do a lot of feints. His mind is just going a thousand.

He's just redlining constantly. And he essentially blueprinted exactly what was going to happen in the fight. He explained to me exactly what was going to happen in the fight. And TJ and him have such a close relationship that it was just one of those situations where the right coach met the right student, and the student is a sponge, and he just listens to everything Dwayne says. You know what's really funny about it is, we were talking about this during one of the fight podcasts,

is that you know who doesn't fight the way Dwayne teaches? Dwayne. Oh, yeah. He never fought like that. He's not like Captain Footwork. No, he's not. No. Precision puncher. Yeah. Precision puncher.

Yeah. Precision puncher, precision kicker, excellent Muay Thai. But he wasn't that crazy footwork dude. Moved too much. No. Not too much. It's weird. Yeah.

But he teaches TJ, and it's perfect. It's almost like do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe his body didn't work that way or maybe he didn't need to or he had a different approach right but he's doing good work out there yeah he really is i'm amazed i mean it's one of the things that's most exciting to me about mma is the differences in approach as as far as like different coaches and the results because nobody really knows exactly what the right way to do it is and it's different for you you said as it is for George it's probably

different for TJ than it is for like Joseph Benavidez like everybody has their own approach and it's it's just a matter of figuring it all out and working it all out and there's so many variables it's just so an endlessly fascinating to me it is yeah it's it's crazy there's so many variables. It's just endlessly fascinating to me. It is. Yeah, it's crazy. There's so many new guys, too. It's so exciting right now.

Yeah. The amount of new talent coming out and the new, like you look at Ronda Rousey, Conor McGregor, these guys are so different than what we've seen like five years ago. It's great. No one was using judo throws like ronda is no one's crazy or hector you know hector yeah hector does very well lombard versus jake shields was a judo exhibition yeah that was pretty crazy that was a dominating fight yeah he's a he's a motherfucker hey now when you see a guy like lombard and you see a fight like that with jake shields does that get you excited about fighting him yeah Yeah. Yeah, I can tell. Yeah, he's going to be fun to fight for sure.

I'm excited about fighting him. And you were excited about fighting Tyron Woodley, who's another powerful, explosive guy. Powerful guy. I felt like my technique could overcome his physical. Obviously, you look at me and you look at him, he's physically superior you know like he's a athlete like just cut out a stone and i felt like it was exciting for me to see

you know all the skill that i've skill work i've done over the years to overcome a bigger stronger faster opponent you know because i was never that guy i'm athletic guy but when i started martial arts i was a i was a little puke you know i got beat up by bigger kids or you know so it's kind of it was a cool thing for me especially to be in vancouver to fight a guy like that and use my skill to like you know solve this puzzle of you know the bigger faster stronger guy no that was a beautiful fight that was a beautiful fight that was a fight that you really kind of shut him down you know in a weird way like he didn't he really didn't have an answer didn't know what to do yeah he was he was waiting for a certain certain thing yeah and i also love how you use that high elbow to block the right hand that's a that's that's. That's a little-used technique.

Yeah. Is that for us? Yeah. The Philly shell was used in the olden days when gloves weren't around for blocking head shots. Because the bigger gloves now in boxing, you can just go like this. Right, you put your hands up to your ears. But now with our gloves or no gloves, this doesn't really stop anything. It still hurts like hell. Your temple is exposed a lot.

Your jawline back here is exposed a lot. Your fist can fit through these little spaces now because there's not a huge pillow, not a huge pillow, but a bigger pillow to absorb that that impact so they they started using the philly shell and using elbows and forearms and and and your your tricep to to fill in those holes against uh you know just bare knuckle so i felt that it would be useful to me yeah it's interesting when you go back and you look at like old-school boxing matches when they had the little tiny gloves I could look at someone like the Jack

Dempsey fights like they were they were fighting with almost like little bag gloves yeah they just had like leather yeah over their hands yeah but which is very similar to MMA gloves yeah yes What do you think about no gloves? I like it. Do you like that better? I think about that all the time because I'm like, why is it okay to shin kick a guy in the head? Why is it okay to knee a guy in the head, elbow a guy in the head?

But you have to protect your knuckles. Is that some leftover holdout stuff from boxing? Yeah, it could be. The idea that you need pads? And maybe just for the media too. We need to have rounds. over holdout stuff from boxing yeah it could be the idea that you need pads and and maybe just for the media too right you know we need to have rounds we need to have uh rules and and gloves and some kind of protection so that the mainstream media can accept it as a sport but yeah the raw ufc first the first fights you know, you know, that was the real deal.

But it seems contradictory to me because how come you, like, Edson Barboza, Terry Edomoy, wheel kicks him in the head and hits him with his heel. I mean, that is the hardest part of your body. You're walking around on it all the time. You could take your heel and walk up to a wall and stomp the wall. Anybody could do that. You could take a little kid and they could stomp the wall. Take a little kid and tell them to go punch the wall yeah it'll hurt like it hurts everybody like you can't do it yeah and it seems to me that it's very unrealistic

to wrap up the hands tape up the wrists because that's an issue as well the the wrists move you know and you have this unrealistic expectation of how you could just sort of tee off on people and brawl with them. Whereas if it was just bare knuckle, you'd be forced to be much more precise with your punches and be much more realistic in the impact of them. I think our gloves, too, aren't helpful for the situation. I think the UFC gloves could get a little bit better. In what way? They're kind of like round, and so they make your hand open up ah right you're always talking about eye pokes yeah the glove is a big reason for it right in my opinion yeah um have you tried the bellator gloves

no bellator i tried the old pride gloves they were awesome you like those better yeah we used to have those laying around here somewhere probably have them in the back yeah the old pride gloves. They were awesome. You like those better. Yeah, we used to have those laying around here somewhere. We probably have them in the back. Yeah. The old pride gloves have more of a curve to them. And if you watch the old pride fights. Easier to make a fist and keep your fist. And very rare that you saw eye pokes.

Bellator is using some Everlast gloves that do two things. One, it curves the fist more, keeps the fist closed more. And another thing is it reinforces the metacarpal. Oh, okay. It's more padding in here where it's preventing hand breaks. Right. Which makes it thicker, which makes it harder to choke people, which probably not that good. I think, like, especially for jiu-jitsu and grappling, I think it would definitely benefit people if there was no gloves.

Yeah, yeah. It might even stop the eye pokes more if there was no gloves because your hand wouldn't automatically open up. Yep, I agree with that. Yeah, I don't know if people are willing to see that, though. I don't think so. Not in mainstream media. No, I don't think so. But how crazy is that, though?

Because you could smash, you get on top of a guy, and you could literally smash his eyeball open with your elbow. Yeah, it's just like, I think it's people's predisposition. Like, they need to see that glove or whatever, even though every other part of your body that's used as a weapon in the MMA world isn't protected and is harder shins and knees you know my god you know yeah elbows are a big you know they cut you yeah yeah do you think that elbows should there's another argument that elbows shouldn't be allowed

like the strike force rules they have to be they have to be allowed yeah because they're effective yeah yeah what about i mean i think headbutts and knees on the ground need to be involved too really yeah i would like to see that yeah right like how come you can punch a guy in the head but you can't like smash him with your head like it is a legitimate weapon would change with knees on the ground to the head and head butts, it would change the dynamic of ground fighting. What about soccer kicks? Yeah, that too. But what about soccer kicks being a problem

because guys get pinned up against a cage? That's the only argument that I've ever heard that makes a lot of sense to me, that they shouldn't be legal because you can get your head stuck. Yeah, but the fight would be over pretty quick. So the idea is just don't get stuck. Yeah, don't get there.

Yeah. Or pay the price. I wonder if any organization could ever. If anybody would do it, it would be Japan. Yeah. Japan would take it deep. One FC's got some good rules. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, they have a weird rule where they allow you. Like they say open fight or something like that where they allow. Oh, yeah. The referee's discretion. They have to like time it or something. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they have a weird rule where they allow you, like they say open fight or something like that, where they allow. Oh, yeah, the referee's discretion. They have to like time it or something. Yeah, that's weird. Yeah. There's been fights, too, where it got awkward.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know about all that. Yeah, that's a bit weird. I don't know about the referee deciding, because what if you get an idiot referee, you know? Yeah. That does happen, right?

There's a lot of those. Oh. because what if you get an idiot referee you know yeah that does happen there's a lot of those there's sometimes where guys are battling for a position and it's like a very important transition in a fight and the referee will like be like yelling at them like come on you guys you got to work got to work like what are you watching you're not watching a fight these guys are fighting and in my opinion like as long as guys aren't actively stalling, as long as they really are trying to get to a better position, what you're watching is an important part of grappling. That's why I'm against stand-ups.

Yeah, me too. Good. That's awesome. I think it's just because a guy... Let the fight play out. Yeah. That's where the no rounds and no time limit also plays a big part in a fight too. Yeah, it should but you know i i kind of understand the idea of rounds that it makes it more exciting and guys get to recover in between rounds they don't seem so exhausted but the if you're gonna have rounds then i'm really

against stand-ups yeah if a guy could take you down and molest you for five rounds and just hold you in place and and beat on you Askren style, that's life. Yeah, you got to learn how to deal with that. You got to have the technical skill to be able to get out of that situation. Yeah, and Askren, I was kind of bummed out when he signed with 1FC because I was like, I want to see what that guy can do in the UFC against elite guys. what that guy can do in the UFC against elite guys. Yeah. Like, when he fought Douglas Lima in Bellator, I was like, holy shit.

Like, he could do that to that guy? Like, Lima's a bad motherfucker. And he's fucking ragdolling him. Askren is so goddamn good at wrestling. Yeah, he is. He's good. It's important to have guys like that around. Yeah.

You know? I think maybe UFC's worried about him beating the exciting guys and then having a boring guy around because no one likes to watch him maybe it's a i do it's a fan friendly thing i guess but i don't know who knows if he would you know you got to take the exciting part yeah my thought on it i'm a purist and my thought on it is you don't know who the best in the world is until you take the guys who are the most dangerous or, in his case, the most problematic. And you've got to pit them up against each other. And unless you do, it's not legit. Yeah, it'd be nice to see him in the UFC to see if he is a top contender for real.

Yeah. I mean, or you put him in there with a guy like you who could shut him down and you say oh okay well here's his issue you know you know we've seen it time and time again we just saw with eddie alvarez eddie alvarez who looked great in bellator donald cerrone just picks his leg apart and you go oh okay well here's this is the new level you hit the next level yeah you see yeah you see uh guys from other organizations that come. You start to see maybe they're not so invincible. Well, look at Hector Lombard. When he was fighting at 185 in Bellator, he was crushing people. Came over to the UFC, Tim Bosch beats him.

And Tim Bosch is a very good fighter, no doubt about it. But what the issue was is Bosch is a natural 205, cuts down to 185. And Lombard's a 170. He was a little blown up to be 185. And the skill level and the toughness of Bosh allowed him to beat him. And that's, you know, everybody was saying, like, Lombard's going to come over and smash everybody. And he looks really good now at 170.

But that's important. You've got to see that play out. Yeah. And if it doesn't play out, feel like i feel like i got robbed like i feel i really do like when askren signed with one fc i remember reading it online i was like what the fuck man how is he gonna fight over there i was upset yeah i mean maybe he maybe in a year or two years the talent level of one fc will rise to the occasion or you know maybe he'll go over to bellator. Who the fuck knows?

Or maybe come back rather to Bellator. Who the fuck knows? Now that Coker's there and Bjorn is gone, who knows? Maybe that was the issue, the reason why he left. Yeah, maybe.

It'd be nice to see him in the UFC. It'd be nice to see another organization really fucking step up and be like Pride was too. Be like the other... Competition would be good for the fighters. really fucking step up and be like Pride was too. Be like the other. Competition would be good for the fighters. It's good for everybody, right? Yeah.

And it's good for everybody in weight classes too. Like a weight class like yours, welterweight, you got a fucking murderer's row at welterweight. And that's important. And that's why all these new guys are coming up and they're at a very high level. And it seems like whenever you have a really super ultra competitive weight class, all these people start rising to the occasion. And you see better performances from all of them. Yeah. Yeah, the welterweight division is crazy, man.

It's like so unstable. You never know who's going to come on top. It's like a pressure cooker. Yeah. so unstable you never know who's gonna come out on top it's like a pressure cooker yeah but i i think i think it i think i'm gonna you know i'm coming up right now and i think i might be able to dominate the division soon well you're definitely getting better you know that's one of the things getting closer getting the opportunity i'm fighting for the title next so i guess we'll see yeah your fight against safadine was a big eye opener for a lot of people because safadine is known as a stand-up guy and you set traps for him man you know that wasedine was a big eye-opener for a lot of people because Safedine is known as a stand-up guy.

And you set traps for him, man. That was a really interesting fight. Yeah, there's small details going on in that fight. Yeah, that was a big victory. Catching him like that and stopping him like that, that was a big victory. The Damian Maia fight was a big victory, too. That was probably my favorite fight. Yeah, because he got you down in that first round when he's most dangerous.

And you're both dry. And he got you down that first round when he's most dangerous. And you're both dry. And, you know, he got you down, but he defended perfectly. You know, and then... Yeah. He's a tough guy. Not a lot of people recognize him in the welterweight division right now. Well, he's so strong. He's so strong at 170. So technical, too, man.

It's crazy. And getting down to 170, you see him very technical, but also physically strong. Like the Rick story fight yeah you know no one's ever taken story down like that yeah he crushes people crushes john fitch yeah like no one ran through fitch like that at the time he john fitch fitch yeah that's true i mean that's what fitch would do to guys yeah he would out grapple them and beat them down yeah that's another issue that i want to bring up is weight cutting like that's that sort of highlights why like weight cutting fuck it's it's unfortunate but it's reality

how much do you cut um well right now i'm about 200 jesus christ son yeah but i'm not like jacked what a tall guy how tall were you you? Six foot. Six two? Six one? Six foot. Six foot? Yeah. You said it, and I added an inch to you for some reason. I don't know what that was about. It's not too hard for me, actually.

I just diet for two months. You normally naturally weigh 200 pounds. And then, like, the week of the fight, how much do you weigh? Like, before the fight yeah like i'll be like 182 182 so you lose somehow another 18 pounds along the way and how are you doing that just diet man healthy eating but you're not fat you know i would never imagine no but i'm not like i'm not ripped all year round i'm only i'm only really cut when I'm cutting weight for my fight. I have a lot of excess weight, I guess, water weight or whatever you want to call it.

Do you watch your diet all year round or when you don't have a fight, you fuck off? Pretty much. I like to eat kind of healthy, but yeah, definitely. But you like to go off? Yeah. What do you think about guys who, well, you're a pretty extreme weight cutter then. Not really, though, because it's not hard for me no no it's it's really not like if you ask my coaches like i'm just cruising well 182 the week of is not bad you know yeah i get down

there 12 comfortable and then it's just like i don't eat too much and you know i i manage my water levels properly and i i'm exercising and i have a good system it works for me that is another issue though that goes along with training for a fight the issue of dehydrating yourself essentially and getting down to 170 pounds for a brief amount of time and then when you step into the octagon what do you weigh i'll put 185 so not bad so you're not straining yourself too much you don't deplete your body too much i feel good um a lot of the times i feel like i could fight when i when i get on the scale really yeah i really don't feel bad at all that's nice to hear because there's some guys that push

it so far yeah i've had that in the past like well i just do like i just cut water but now i diet the weight off naturally, and I feel great. So is it just a matter of being a bit more disciplined in your camp? Yeah. With your diet? Nutrition is a big part of it. Do you know who George Lockhart is? No.

He's a nutritionist, ex-fighter. Yeah, he's got a good system. I think his website is FitnessVT. So he's one of those Dolce-type dudes. I think he's a bit different than Dolce. In what way? He's not a marketing machine? No.

And I think he's just a little more natural. A little more natural? Yeah. What are you trying to say, dude? Spit it out. Spit it out. I don't know. I've heard natural. A little more natural? Yeah. What are you trying to say, dude? Spit it out. Spit it out. I don't know. I've heard things.

What have you heard? Are you talking about like diuretics? I don't know what they're doing over there, but it's not for me. Well, that was BJ's accusation. Yeah. The diuretic thing. Yeah. I don't know.

I don't like to play with any of that. I like to keep it natural, and I have a healthy, nutrient-rich body, you know, and let my skill do the work for me. Well, apparently you can use diuretics that are natural, though, like vitamin C in high doses is apparently a natural diuretic. Okay. And that's what they say Dolce uses. Okay. It's one of the things that he does.

I have no idea what his system is. Yeah. I don't know either. But a lot of guys have been popped for diuretics in the past, and none of Dolce's guys have. Okay. So I don't know if what he's doing. I mean, it's like performance-enhancing drugs or performance-enhancing substances. It's such a strange thing because there are nutrients that you can isolate in levels that you would normally never get in food you know you can take nutrients and i that are healthy and normal but you extract them

from food you take them in pill form and they can without a doubt improve your performance okay but those are legal because they're essentially food-based supplements okay yeah you know what i'm saying vitamins and nutrients yeah vitamins nutrients yeah well that's not natural things cordyceps mushrooms things along those lines it allows you the chinese olympic team used it and we actually have some here i'll give you some before it's totally safe it's called shroom tech you never heard of shroom tech sport it it allows your body to better utilize oxygen it actually came from high altitude herding populations had found that their cows were eating these mushrooms that were growing and they were more active and so that was initially how it was discovered they actually

grow it on caterpillars it's really kind of freaking freaky. Yeah, but so this is a natural. Natural. Natural nutrition and nutrients and things that, you know, this isn't like EPO or something. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's natural and, you know, I think that should be allowed, right? Yeah.

But then you get things like creatine, which is also kind of natural, but you're taking it in forms where you would never get it from meat. Is that beneficial to a fighter, though, creatine? I don't know. There's been studies. There's been studies that say that creatine improves physical strength. But there's also been studies that say it makes you retain water, which is one of the last things that a fighter would want, especially when you're about to cut weight.

I don't really take too many supplements. I'm not really educated on it too much. I take protein and BCAAs and stuff. What kind of protein do you use? Do you use plant-based or whey? Yeah, I've used Vega and stuff in the past. Do you use whey protein at all? No.

No? Just mostly plant-based? Yeah, and you know what? I don't do it all the time. I just kind of use it once in a while. So this guy... I should probably use more supplements. I think eating good really helps me.

Yeah. Oh, for sure. I drink a lot of water. Do you drink, well, you have a coffee there. Yeah. Is that coffee? Yeah, I like coffee. Do you fuck around with that like the week of the fights?

All the time. Things like that, yeah. Yeah. It doesn't seem to mess with you? It doesn't bother me. Yeah, Tito Ortiz used to say that coffee fucks with your cardio, but I've never heard that before. You know, the fact I've heard it helps.

I haven't had a problem with it. I have a coffee a day, usually. What is this nutrition guy again? What's his name? George Lockhart. Lockhart. And does he propose or prescribe meals for you? Does he, like, say everything for you? Yeah, like, he'll have, like, a meal plan and stuff,

and, like, he'll balance it for your work schedule like uh he does it for like regular people and then like you know athletes and fighters and stuff so you could punch in like your workout schedule uh it's detailed like how much you're walking that day how much you're sitting down how much you're sleeping um all kinds of stuff like that and uh how much body fat you are how tall you are what your goals are so it's a whole like system he has in place so he's very specific yeah oh yeah this guy knows his stuff if you ever talk to him it's just like like 90% of the things just go right over your head because he's just like he's using words that you've never

heard of and he's talking fast and he's a smart guy he's one of those dudes you have to ask him like three times the same question to like kind of feel a little bit like you know what he's talking about so do you um just get a plan from him or does he actually cut make the meals for you no no it's just like the plan so you do all the preparation everything yourself yeah you do all your own shopping yeah stuff like that you cook for yourself all that stuff yeah oh wow yeah and when it comes to portions do you measure them out yeah i've kind of like figured it out now like this kind of general size but had when i first started yeah it was like weighed and stuff now what about like green leafy vegetables, things along those lines?

Is he strong on that? Yeah, yeah, for sure. All types of different vegetables. It's mostly vegetables, I guess. And what source of protein? There's nuts for like snacks and stuff. And then, you know, chicken breast, certain fish like salmon um filet mignon um pork tenderloin there's a few different ones so essentially mostly low fat type stuff yeah and do you get your fats

from like avocado or coconut oil avocado yeah coconut oil is another one there's the nuts again almonds and stuff walnuts that's very interesting to me as well that this is something that people are realizing within the last few you know decade or so that like healthy fats are just as important as nutrients it's a very important part of your diet a lot of energy comes from that if you take that stuff out your brain fucking dries up when i've i've tried like taking fats out of my diet like way back in the day i've experimented with different diets right and one of the things that i found is i got stupid like my brain wasn't working as well like i could feel the difference yeah you need to like oil your brain

with that or something i mean i don't know what the exact mechanism is but there's flaxseed oil too fish oils stuff like that. You take tablet fish oil, or do you use tablespoons? Yeah, like liquid. Yeah, the liquid stuff is a little bit easier to digest. You don't have to deal with the gelatin that comes on the outside, which is essentially just animal hooves and shit like that that they turn into gel. I take vitamins, gel capsules and vitamins i don't i haven't

had a problem and does this guy georgie measure all this stuff out for you as well and um yeah it's it's all like portioned out on the the site for you do you get blood work done um i haven't i've i've uh i've got prescription to like measure like all my nutrient levels, and I've just been too lazy to go get it done. That's ridiculous, though. You're a professional funder at the highest level of the game. Yeah, and I'm an idiot. No, I don't know. I just procrastinate with it because one day I'll feel crappy, and I'll be talking to my osteopath,

and he'll be like, go get these blood works done. See what your deficiencies are. So I'll go get a prescription. And I'll never go do it. I'm scared of needles. That's a big thing. You're scared of needles? Get the fuck out of here.

Really? I pass out. I'm not joking. That's hilarious. You're not scared to fight in a cage. I've passed out many times doing IVs or stuff like that. Really? Yeah, man. I hate it.

So when you're rehydrating, when they give you an IV, you pass out? Yeah. You faint, essentially. And then I wake up and everyone's looking at me. I've almost attacked Faraz and a couple of guys because I've woken up and didn't know where I was and I was just like,

That's hilarious. yeah yeah it sucks i used to date this girl who couldn't even watch someone get a needle in a movie she would black out yeah yeah if i think about it too hard then i'll like get like my stomach will like that's so weird yeah but that's so illogical i don't understand what that is and it only happened like it only started happening like four or five years ago before like blood like because you have to get blood work done for the fights right right past like your hiv and all that stuff and before i would just be like yeah and it's done walk away now then all of a sudden out of nowhere every time and i see a needle coming my way i my my face will get white for no reason that's so

strange so i have to like get on my phone like this i have to lay down like it's a whole process like look away and look oh yeah distract myself wow even talking about right now i'd like get like that's so strange i mean it was it would make more sense if it was something you always had. Yeah, it's so weird. Like, my ex-girlfriend, her dad had it, and she said that her dad, one time, her brother got, like, a severe sunburn, and he had blisters all over himself, and the dad saw it, and the dad fainted. And what's crazy is the dad was a fucking doctor. He was a dentist.

Oh, okay. So, I mean, how the fuck is this guy like i mean obviously he must deal with some fucked up shit and gory things you have to put needles in in dentistry too yeah weird well he i guess he was okay with needles but he would see certain things like he saw his son with blisters he's like oh that's weird he falls down on the fucking beat blisters yeah because you know like from from the sun, from the sunburn. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he apparently had a really bad sunburn.

Yeah, it's true. But she was like. It's weird. It's fucking weird, right? Yeah, it's funny. It's in her family, I guess. But it's weird that you acquired it. That's very strange.

Out of nowhere. It was just like one, I was doing blood work for a fight. And I was at the hospital. And that was just like every day. And then I passed out. And ever since then, it happens. So I have to be really careful. That's fucking weird, dude.

Yeah. Have you talked to a psychologist about that? No. No? Probably never will. I would want to know if there's like a coping mechanism for that. Yeah. I'll probably just overcome it.

Maybe now. Maybe now you'll be thinking about this conversation. People are going to be bringing it up. Sports psychology is a very interesting thing to me. And I've actually thought about using a sports psychologist for stand-up, for stand-up comedy. Because I'm like, I don't think anybody's ever done that before. Right. But I bet, because a lot of camps incorporate sports psychologists as a heavy part of their regimen. And like Ryan Parsons, who, you know, he trains Dennis Bermudez, and he handles Pat Cummins,

a lot of good guys. And he's big on that. Yeah, yeah. And I've always been fascinated by sports. I've never i've never actually sat down with a psychologist who got over my own brain neither have i i don't know what they would talk about like what would what would they tell me i don't know to do differently for you they'd probably watch that video you staring and they'd be like good good good good

whatever that is that place go to yeah maybe they help you get to that zone right yeah well that's what i would wonder is for some guys it becomes necessary after a loss because after a loss um you know there there are people that have i guess the best way to describe it would be unrealistic expectations or unrealistic perceptions of who they are they like to think of themselves as being absolutely different from everybody else and you know they're a champion it's gonna happen they're gonna beat everybody and then they get beat they're like fuck i can't believe i lost like and it becomes a real issue restructuring their mindset like re re-establishing their confidence yeah interesting i know george used one i think yeah a while ago i don't think he always did it but i think he tried it

david loazo i think did it too well loazo had some real problems right anxiety yeah yeah and he didn't have those until he lost, or he lost to Rich Franklin. Yeah, I think that's... That's when all those came. I think that started it, yeah. I'm not too sure. I can't... Well, that was a brutal fight. That was a brutal...

Yeah, that was a war. Brutal fight. Yeah, it was one of Rich's biggest victories, and it was when Rich was in his prime, and it was just a beating. Yeah. And David was really never the same after that fight. No. Yeah.

When George used it, was it post the Matt Serra fight? I have no idea when it was. I never really asked him about it too much. Well, he seems like the type of guy that would try everything. He's very open-minded, you know? Yeah. If someone tells him something with enough confidence, he'll be interested in it. Well, he's so open.

I mean, I was amazed that he was willing to work out with me. When I told him that I could help him with spinning back kick technique i was like yeah yeah let me get to you on that you know but he's very open he's oh yeah yeah as far as learning things yeah he'll he has this like i'll try anything he's got the beginner's mindset yes almost too much so because like that's how he got roped into that fucking witch doctor dude. Rub it on his chest. Yeah, yeah. Voodoo moves and shit. He's very like, he's like a child almost in that sense, you know?

Yeah, he's very optimistic in that sense. Like, everyone's always trying to help him and stuff. Yeah, they were explaining to me what this guy was doing to him. That he was like changing his chakras and his meridians and all this shit. And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, I was going, what the fuck's going on? I was like, you're giving this guy was doing to him, that he was changing his chakras and his meridians and all this shit. And I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, I was going, what the fuck's going on? I was like, you're giving this guy money? Hold on.

Yeah. Explain this again. What the fuck are you saying? Do you really think there's one guy that can do this and there's no one else in the world of the Olympics, elite athletes in football, NBA, boxing, fill in the blank. Millions and millions, fucking billions of dollars on the line in all these sports. Yeah.

And there's one dude who knows how to rub on your fucking chest and turn you into a superman. From what I heard, this guy's, this witch doctor guy, I never met him. I met him. Yeah? Yeah. I never met him. Dana was the one who actually called him the witch doctor and he claimed that as his name after like dana called him as a goof yeah yeah like oh you're like a witch doctor and then he was like

yeah i'm a witch doctor i'm the witch doctor like he's just a fucking lunatic i don't i don't know i don't know anything about the situation i wasn't around for it but i'm always astounded that elite high level alpha male competitors like fighters getting fuckered by bullshit like there's been a few guys looking for the advantage right everyone's looking for the next thing but really i think it's it's it's in your head oh no doubt one guy i talked to actually admitted to me that what he was doing was all in your head like he tried tried to, like everybody was telling me like, you know, I've always had neck and back problems just from jujitsu and this guy was working on me and he was like doing some weird shit where he was like pressing the back of my head. He was like telling me that he could tell like where my issues were by pressing the

back of my head. And like, does this hurt? No, does this hurt? And then he would like press one spot harder. He was like, does that hurt? I go, well, you just pressed it harder. And like we had this little like we're looking at each other funny and then i go what exactly are you doing and we got into like the you know he tried to like give me his spiel and okay let's try this again what exactly are you doing what exactly are you doing and what

essentially he was saying yeah in a roundabout sort of a way was that if you believe in what he's doing then it becomes like a placebo effect thing but i'm like but you can't just bullshit me you can't bullshit me because i'm too curious if you bullshit me i'm gonna ask questions and i need to know whether or not i'm being bullshitted but it's kind of fucked because if i just let him bullshit me maybe i would have had a better result but i was you know i was just like oh like fighters like high level guys yeah you see uh this all the time like with those little plastic wristbands with the shiny little tinfoil on it yes that's like that's gonna help me be a better athlete fucking mike goldberg

mike goldberg one time we were in vegas and he had a couple of drinks and he's telling me how amazing he's wearing one of these fucking stupid things on his wrist and he's telling me how amazing it is and makes he introduces me to these guys that are selling them yeah and they try to do these carnival tricks on you yeah yeah I know I know what you're talking about yes they do different little tests with your body like push down one arm! But if you understand Jiu-Jitsu, you know he's changing the leverage point. Yeah. Like he's like doing it like this,

and then like, you know, he'll like go further out on your arm, like now try. And you're like, well, you're over there now. Get the fuck over here. Do it the way you did it first. I know. You know, it's like, okay, now resist me.

Okay, now resist me. It works on some people, man. Dude, Shane Carwin had one one on Vanderlei had one on car and woman was telling me how it helped his back Mike over say my back's never been better two years later fucking just disfused of course Fuck you talking about man this guy's he's got a rubber band on your wrist with fucking shiny shiny plastic Yeah, I guess maybe it's some people's human instinct to like look for that edge yeah look for that i believe it and believe it and actually feel better actually feel better yeah it's crazy huh it's totally crazy the mind yeah the mind is so

powerful it's insane it's amazing it is amazing that some people... The power of belief is something to be said. Well, I was reading this thing where they were talking about injuries, and that in certain injuries, you know, people get atrophy after the injury because they don't use the muscle while it's healing. Right. But if you spend X amount of time doing visualization exercises, and X amount of time visualizing actually using those specific muscle groups they don't atrophy right yeah i've heard of that what the fuck man yeah your your imagination

i i think about like all different kinds of things like that when i'm daydreaming i find it helps me oh it must i mean mindset is so important we think about the mind is the control panel for the body that's what's executing all those moves and one of the things about you when it comes to competition that i think freaks people out is how calm you stay and how how dead-eyed like that that video where you're just standing there staring and not blinking like that dead-eyed calmness that's that's not giving into anxiety that's not having extraneous thoughts i don't need to bounce around yeah and beat my chest before the fight you know it just doesn't make a difference for me but some guys do yeah it gets you hyped up yeah yeah i don't need to get hyped up but like when you think about it like the one guy that

everybody was so impressed with for throughout his career was fedor because he just dead face too yeah yeah he just turns it on when the bell rings yeah exactly didn't need to and he used to say that like showing anger or showing emotion was a sign of weakness and that you should be focused entirely on your task yeah and nothing else i can agree with that but you don't have like this isn't something that you've like worked out with a coach or that you think it's just experience over the years learning yourself is it from observing other people that are also good at it i think it's self-experience and yeah maybe i don't know i don't know why it happened all of a sudden just just did it's just your thing yeah it's just my thing you found your hey you got a washer yeah you gotta go bathroom gotta pee

go ahead it's right through that door okay goddamn athletes and their small bladders so it happens they're always drinking that water. To the right or left? Right to the door, right on your right-hand side, right there. Rory McDonald, ladies and gentlemen. During this intermission, this brief intermission, why Rory does his PPs, I would like to announce, well, actually, the show tomorrow night at the Ice House is basically sold out. I think it's sold out because it's a ridiculous lineup.

It's Bill Burr, Chris D'alia brian callan ian edwards tony hinchcliffe and me i do it every year uh every year i do a night before thanksgiving because i'm almost always home with my family during thanksgiving um we actually talked about going places for thanksgiving but that seems like a goddamn nightmare place or nightmare time to travel but that shit is uh basically sold out um and then the next gig i have to after that is december 12th on the road in phoenix arizona with uh tony hinchcliffe at the celebrity theater uh everybody that tuned in to uh rocky mountain high that was on comedy central thank you so much this was i think my best one i always say that but this one i really do think was my best one and it was without a doubt the best received one my last one was just wasn't it i

think i wasn't doing as much stand-up while i was doing it and um for whatever reason you know a lot of people didn't like it as much they felt like i fell off a little bit so i worked really hard on this one and uh it paid off so i appreciate the fuck out of that and i'm working hard it's crazy i just did my first totally new hour this past weekend at the ontario improv so So everybody came down for that. Thank you. I had a great fucking time. And he's back, ladies and gentlemen. So when you were 18 and you first started going to TriStar and you made your move up to Montreal,

how beneficial was it for you as a young guy to be able to train with the welterweight champion? It was awesome. Fucking huge opportunity, right? Yeah, and not only that, like, George was, like, such a nice person, like, probably one of the more welcoming persons there. You know, like, he really was like, oh, wow, you know, you're really good. He was very complimentary to me.

Not only let me train, but, you know, he took me around Montreal, you know, talked to me outside of the gym, invited me back to stay with him you know uh for training trips and things like that like you know such a such a cool experience and an awesome part of my life yeah he's such a nice guy that's incredible he really is it's it's so hard to believe that he's this fucking trained killer you know he's beast, man. Because he's so nice. He's so nice, but not worried about competition. That's what I find fascinating, that there's some guys, like you remember the whole thing with Rashad and Jon Jones,

like they were worried about bringing guys in, like I'm going to have to fight this guy someday. Yeah, he welcomed it. That's crazy. Yeah. I find that really fascinating. I never forgot it either. A lot of people now are asking me to fight him and this and that.

I think it's, they don't see the things that I got to see and that I appreciate. Not only as a martial artist, but for myself. I learned so much from him and I gained a lot from his kindness and kindness and uh what he gave to me and i'm not gonna forget that and stab him in the back you know right what would happen though if you do eventually win the title and george does come back i think you just do super fights you think so yeah i'm pretty sure like almost 100 offered you a fucking boatload of cash. And the two of you got together. Well, you know what?

Life's not about money. No? Obviously, you know, I'm doing this for money also. But it's not. It's never been my goal to be a fucking billionaire. Right. I'm going to live in the woods one day. So it's just, I don't really.

Are you? Yeah, for sure, man. Really? What are you going to do out there? Hunt.. Are you? Yeah, for sure, man. Really? What are you going to do out there? Just be weird? Yeah, be weird. Run around naked? I don't have to hear people call me a fucking psycho all the time.

And just be what? I don't know. Well, people probably don't call you a psycho in real life, because in real life you're really normal. Yeah, no. It's just they know you from the moment you step into that cage. Yeah. And that's when you see what the media shows them for sure. That's what, well, you know, what everybody sees is a fucking camera on you.

You're a fucking psycho. Yeah. Let's read. Look at, well, I'll play that video again. No. So you eventually going to live in the woods for real? Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

But that's, that's the thing that I've been, thing I've been trying to overcome. How am I going to train martial arts and live in the woods and have a family? So I'm going to have to have some kind of thing worked out. Well, you just got to live close enough to a city. Yeah, that's the problem. I don't want to be close to anyone. How far away do you want to be? Far. Like helicopter rescue far you want to be? Far.

Like helicopter rescue far? That would be awesome. What is it about wanting to get away? I don't know. I just don't like being in the city. Really? I grew up in nature and stuff in my early childhood and stuff. And then I got tossed around the city you know having

to live with parents that moved moved away and stuff so i prefer to be out in nature well you know what you could do you could start your own gym you know yeah you are at a point what's gonna happen i mean you think about it you're at a point right now in your career that if you started a gym today people would flock to it and the more you accomplish in your career i mean it wouldn't even necessarily be a gym that you would have to teach at but just hire my name yeah use your name i've thought about it maybe an affiliate of tristar or something like that yeah that would be cool too yeah i don't know i'm just gonna see what happens comes my way i definitely plan on having a home in the woods so i love being in the woods yeah yeah you started hunting bow hunting yeah that's so cool man i bought my

dad a bow for his 50th birthday oh really yeah no kidding yeah that's cool what kind um i forget the name of it it's a it's a compound bow though i lost a few of his arrows. A few. It's not measured for me, right? So it was like it wasn't working for me. Yeah, that's the thing about bows, especially compound bows. Compound bows, very specifically, you have to get them measured to your draw length and the amount of weight you pull back. And then the arrows have to be weighted to the correct bow. You can't have an arrow that's too light or an arrow that's too heavy,

and then you have to use the sight because bows have a sight on them, and that has to be accurately judged based on the weight of the arrow, the speed of the arrow, the poundage of the pull. So many details. A lot of details. I like guns better, personally. Well, what I like about guns is that they're really effective. I got a shot of moose a couple weeks ago.

Nice. Whereabouts? In B.C. No way. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. What area? I'll tell you.

The place is called Big Country Outfitters, and it's in the mid, northern mid B.C. Okay, so maybe like Caribou or something? No, I don't think they think that well i bet there's some caribou no no the area oh yes yes caribou that's where i was born oh that's hilarious that's crazy it's north of that it's a little bit north of that they were about i want to say like an a little less than an hour north of caribou that's where we were okay okay cool fuck we saw some big moose dude yeah man god damn the one i shot was pretty big i mean it was young was only like 900 pounds for a moose that's not that big a deal which is crazy it's

crazy he's saying 900 pounds is not that big but we saw one we saw one that was like fucking jurassic park right we only saw it like briefly for a second there was all these females there's all these cows that were big you know they're probably 900 to a thousand pounds and this motherfucker was twice as big as them with his enormous ass like this huge legs they were just towering and then he just disappeared in the woods but like holy shit they have those out there these just giant fucking moose yeah bc is amazing and so many wolves that they encourage people to kill them yeah yeah i know it's uh they become like pests but where we were the guy um his neighbor got a cow taken by wolves like they're in their house and they hear howls and crazy shit

and they look out the window there's like 20 wolves ripping a cow apart yeah that happens they um wolves aren't bad though but there's just a lot of them right now in bc well you know there's balance to the ecosystem yeah exactly and they're very important to that sure you know for all sorts of reasons to keep rodents down and to keep populations healthy and to make sure that and they catch the diseased animals usually and like the like the big packs caribou that move they uh they usually catch like the sick ones and they the weak ones yeah it's when they get out of whack when there's too many of them and that can happen they get on these just giant super packs they have a big issue with that in russia there was a yeah a couple years ago there was these super packs That were taking out horses They were like

A hundred wolves strong Which was really nuts And they would That's insane Take a fucking horse out Wow Would you live up there Like that kind of area

Where Up like near Caribou Is that where you'd live Yeah Yeah Probably Roy McDonald Mixed Martial Arts Academy

Set it up People come Yeah Live in the woods Yeah maybe That'd be awesome who knows what'll happen well you're living in like a pretty metropolitan area yeah you're living in montreal yeah do you live in like an apartment like in the city yeah yeah that's got to be weird that sucks

you know like what is the issue is it too much noise too. Yeah. I just prefer to be with, like, trees and lakes and less, like, craziness and honking and the anxiety that comes along with the city. Something about it. I can't really explain it. I grew up with it, right? So it's like that's what I always look back on in my best times. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, I always find it weird that some people love it. Like, my manager lives in new york city and he loves it he loves it he feeds off the city i have to go in the park every day when i when i train there to like balance out i hate it there really yeah i hate the city so what do you do you just go feed pigeons or some shit? Yeah, walk around. Chill out. Just relax? Yeah, man. Do you have, like, things that you do?

Like, do you meditate? Do you do anything to try to calm yourself down? No, I think a lot. I daydream a lot. So maybe that's meditation for me. Kind of in a way. Just not discipline. Yeah, it's not like discipline, no.

Have you ever fucked around with the sensory deprivation tank no but i was texting you i want to do that man yeah that's right and faraz wants to do it too well i'll hook it up i'm sure there's got to be a place in montreal i know there's a big place in vancouver that opened up recently that would make sense there yeah yeah frankie edgar was just tweeting me today he just did his uh first session today does it it takes like a few times to learn how to relax you were saying right yeah well I wouldn't say it takes a few times to learn

how to relax but just to be comfortable with the experience it becomes a normal thing you know it's so weird there's so much so much strangeness to it the first time you do it that I think you get more out the first time you do it okay that i think you get more out of it when you do it two three or four times okay like i have one in my house so to me

going in it is like a normal everyday thing it's like okay i'm going in the tank now and i tell my wife leave me alone i'll be i'll be back in a couple hours okay and i just go in there and hours huh yeah i like to do two hours okay cool i can do like one hour like if i know i have a show like if i have to leave the house at seven for a show i can i can go in at five and go in for an hour and a half or something and take a shower but i prefer it at night when my family's asleep okay everyone's conked out i like to go in there because then i know i'm just gonna go on my own i'm not there's no other energy in the house if that makes any sense yeah Yeah, for sure.

Like, I do all my best writing when everyone's asleep. And it's, you know, when you have a family especially, you're always managing shit. You know, like, there's always, like, things like, she took my thing. Calm down. Everybody relax. And there's always, you know, it's hard to write when all that's going on. But it's way hard to like relax like if i was in the tank and i heard screaming from upstairs like gotta get out of the fucking

tank who's yelling at who who did what you know yeah that would that would suck yeah so it's it's best in a state of complete quiet you know if you can if you can isolation yeah peaceful yeah for sure and then you enter into it it's like think about the most peace that you've ever found when you're in the woods in nature and multiply that by a hundred really because it removes your body it removes all the input of your body because you're floating you feel like you're flying yeah it's it's crazy that's intense it's very intense and it's crazy to me that i'm the guy who keeps telling people about it i'm like how is this not way more popular i've never understood it i mean how is it

like why do you have to hear from me like how is this not like a huge part of so many people's lives especially when you think of how much of when we were talking about the mind and how much of an effect the mind has on your performance and how important it is to achieve certain mindsets, there's no better place to get to know your fucking brain than in a tank. And I would think with so many people being so performance-oriented and goal-oriented and achievement-oriented that that would be a huge tool. Yeah, it makes complete sense to me, right? We're going to get you in there. We'll get you in there. As soon as we get done with this podcast, I'm going to call up Crash at the Float Lab, and we'll hook something up.

Okay, awesome. Where are you staying while you're in town? By LAX. Oh, perfect, because he's in Venice. Okay, that's not far. Yeah, it's like 15 minutes away. Awesome, yeah. Yeah, that's perfect.

Yeah, I'm down here until like the 4th. I leave to Vegas. Nice. Yeah. So you're down here just doing the thing, having a good time, getting some training in. Yeah, hopefully training with as much people as possible. Is that, when you come into town, like a place like that, is it difficult to arrange that, or does everybody just welcome you with open arms?

I don't know. I haven't trained with anyone yet, so hopefully it you haven't tried that before no uh in cali no it's my first time oh okay yeah so you just showed up yeah i'll probably like try to like you know i want to go check out eddie's place and george has spent some time here so hopefully he'll get me uh see freddy and freddie roach yeah so network with people and hopefully i can get a spot with uh different gyms and see what it's all about when that how does that work like when you if you train with a guy like freddie roach you have to pay him or does it take in you don't know i don't know either one's fine right you're like just gotta get in

the work yeah yeah if i have to pay him no problem with that what about muay thai are you looking to do some muay thai when you're down too yeah yeah anything i'd actually i want to learn your sidekick and back kick man i'll be happy yeah yeah let's work out definitely cool be happy to show you some stuff yeah well you're you're so flexible already and you throw so you have so much dexterity you like that question mark kick you throw that that a lot, right? Yeah. I've been trying to get more dynamic with my kicking. Well, the front leg side kick is the one that I see making a big comeback in MMA. I mean, Jon Jones loves to do that to the thigh. And he even dropped Vitor to the body.

Yeah, he did. That was an awesome kick. Yeah, you're right. That was a big kick in my arsenal, the front leg side kick. And I'm a short guy, but my friend Larry, my friend Larry Jones, who was a high-level black belt back in the day, he was a tall guy. He was like 6'3", and he was all legs. His legs would go up to his fucking rib cage.

And this dude would just impale people with his front leg side kick. He just had developed it. Something I've never worked. I'd love to work that. You know who's good at this? Cajun Johnson. good front leg yeah i'd kick yeah i'd definitely like to work that with you yeah it's a weird technique because it's so effective at keeping distance from the guy like a sideways stance like you're seeing that sideways stance play out like wonder boys really steven thompson yeah really good at that sideways stance yeah he's a

really fucking interesting addition to uh to the ufc yeah yeah he's awesome i've trained with him before his striking is amazing yeah and he moves like a snake you know in and out back and forth and and with a big cage too that's so so hard to deal with right wrestlers yeah well i've always thought i always wondered what the ufc would be like if it was in like a basketball sized place like even they're like a metamorphosis yes enormous just well i don't like metamorphosis because it gets near the edge and looks like people are falling off and right and like uh you ever see chrome gracie versus um uh what is this aoki yeah with the tights yeah i got like right on the edge it looked like they were going to separate and crone caught him with a guillotine

oh really it's like a weird like they were gonna break yeah it was a weird sort of it when you know crone gets a guillotine on you you're you fucking toast he's got a nasty fucking guillotine his technique is so slick it's so hard for to get a surface that works for you know people who want to come pay and watch right yeah well it also the cage kind of gets in the way a little bit of the view you know like it's better than the ring at the same time right for mma i think it's definitely better than the ring for mma yeah i think their ring is sloppy like watching guys fall out of the ring or who is it was it paul ophelio someone caught someone an arm bar where their arm was wrapped up in the ring in the in the rope yeah wasn't it so there's a

been a few guys like that yeah that's stupid that doesn't make any sense to me yeah like it's a mess and then um they tried different things like frank shamrock tried some weird thing at one point in time where it was like sort of like a swimming pool like it's flat and then the edges were like ramped up a bit and then a cage yeah no no that was like yama yeah yeah i remember that yama pit fighting didn't work very well well that was bob myrowitz who was the guy who was the first owner of the ufc okay he created that yama thing right and that's just the fucking name like someone should have said yo dude you can't call it that's not catching on yeah i know what they're thinking you know but um the idea behind is not the worst idea in the world.

And World Combat League used something like that. Remember Chuck Norris' organization? It was a kickboxing thing. Wonderboy was in that, too. Yeah, he was. He was one of the best guys in that. World Combat League was kind of interesting. Yeah, it was some good fights.

Yeah, and now you're seeing Glory on Spike spike which i think is pretty interesting too you get to see uh some really high level muay thai guys but with like slightly different rules i prefer the muay thai rules okay i like the fact they can clinch and elbow and and hold on and throw multiple knees exactly yeah and muay th Thai as an art form is so fascinating to watch because, you know, I'm a big boxing fan. But the reality of boxing is, you know, there are masters like Floyd Mayweather who use it in this incredibly beautiful way to watch. You know, you see the way he's using footwork and angles and countering and feints. And it's beautiful to watch it all pulled together. But then you see a guy who's like a real, like a Kevin Ross type,

you know, uses everything. Constantly using elbows, leg kicks, knees, clinch, throws it all together. Like Lion Fight, you watch Lion Fight? No. Lion Fight is a promotion out of Vegas, like one of the big Muay thai promotions in the united states they're on access tv all the time you ever heard of it really high level guys come over and they're fighting uh like thai guys are fighting like yats and kai fight fights for them malapet

fights for them like real high level thai guys right and they're using everything it's like a lot of clenching a a lot of knees, elbows. It is beautiful because you get to see how this works, like how there's distances where you should punch. There's distances where you should kick. And then when you see it all combined, like a really good, like a Kevin Ross-type dude who's combining it all together in perfect harmony, it's beautiful to watch.

He was combining it all together in perfect harmony. It's beautiful to watch. It's another style. It's another art form, which I think a little bit is lost when you have something like Glory, where you don't allow guys to clinch. I think they have a five-second rule or something like that. Yeah, it's not good. And you don't allow guys to pull down on the head and throw knees to the head. It's bizarre.

And no elbows, which is another thing that i think is kind of silly yeah yeah yeah i'm the same as you the purest thing the less restrictions the better and who do you do your muay thai with up in canada for us for us yeah so for us is your muay thai coach yeah is he also does he i mean he's obviously a very good grappler himself yeah he's black belt and yeah downer does he in Does he coach you on that too, or does he bring in someone else to do it? No, he's the guy I go to pretty much for everything. But, yeah, I'll go around. I'll work boxing with Howard Grant and stuff.

But almost everything I do is Faraz. We really have a close connection. And Faraz is, a lot of people don't understand how skilled he is at everything. He's a really good wrestler, jiu-jitsu, and kickboxer. And he understands it well, and he knows how to teach it really well. Well, you could tell just listening to him coach. You know, his take on things and the way he describes things, like when they do interviews with him. Like, he doesn't have a cursory knowledge of it it's pretty in-depth you can you

can pretty much tell that he's also obviously a very smart guy yeah you know yeah he's got a degree and you know he you know he's he's very uh he knows how to speak well and express himself well do you see yourself after you're done fighting express himself well. Do you see yourself, after you're done fighting, doing something like that? Do you see yourself coaching? Probably not. No? Yeah. Not interested?

Maybe if the right guy came along or something, the right thing. I'd probably go on to something else in my life, though. Like what? I don't know. Find something, another interest that I want to, you know, dive into. Do you have, like, a long-term plan do you have like an idea of what you're tomorrow just tomorrow do you do you know like when you want to get out do you have an idea no no i always told myself i'm just gonna do it until i don't like it anymore

that's pretty much how i i operate my life my brother laughs at me all the time because i just have like i don't have a plan yeah i just I just do whatever's fun, and that's it. That must drive chicks crazy. Chicks hate that shit. Where are we going to be a year from now? What about five years from now, Rory? Yeah. What's our long-term plan?

My girlfriend, she's, yeah, she's a little bit different from me in that, but it kind of balances us out a little bit. But, you know, she rolls with me pretty well. But yeah, I'm pretty random. Like this trip was random. Totally. Totally random. I just decided, I was like, oh, I'm just going to stay in California.

So you came out here to compete and said, fuck it, I'm just going to stay. That was the random aspect of it. But the competing part, how long did you plan it out? That's actually was when i was training for the terek saffroning fight i was eating i was like oh i was thinking about jujitsu and i was like i'd love to do metamorris so i texted uh i managed to get in touch with them they're like oh yeah here's a name and i'm like okay i'll i'll i'll roll with him do you have to run that shit by the ufc yeah but they accepted right away that's interesting yeah

yeah because i would think that like you could get an arm broken or some shit like that yeah well i almost did yeah you got caught man yeah pretty deep kimura yeah my arm was hurting for a couple of days it's just starting to feel better today did you think about tapping no so you're gonna let him snap your arm what the fuck like right now i probably i feel yeah, if like before the match, I was like, yeah, I'd probably tap. But then when I was in the position, I was like, there's no fucking way I'm tapping. That's so crazy, though. Yeah, I don't know what it is.

Well, there's that fine line between where you were because you got out of it. Yeah. And, you know, getting it snapped. Yeah. I mean, that's yeah i still and with that particular move it's kind of hard to really do serious damage because you know the legs and hips aren't under it right but but you watch like frank meir versus big nog yeah like that's a hard one to watch yeah when you see that was more like her arm that was more like, it was bent over this way.

Mine was like, the straight arm lock. Right, right, right. Yeah, but still, I mean, guys have gotten their elbows snapped on that one. Yeah.

But that one, that big nog one, was an ugly one. Yeah. Because when that upper arm snaps, for some reason, That broke like here or something, right?

Yeah. That's weird. Real weird. Yeah. Well, Frank's a fucking big guy. He's a tank, yeah. And that a fucking big guy he's a tank yeah and that was back when uh testosterone replacement therapy was legal so you're allowed to be uh hopped up on the special sauce that's weird didn't it that was legal i so stupid strange

yeah i can't believe it was allowed well it, it's strange medically, too, because it just shows you how... They found a loophole. Yeah. You know, it's like... What also shows you what a piss-poor job athletic commissions do with recognizing what should and shouldn't be legal. It's insane. And a lot of the tests they do are like...

It's like... There's like one-to-one, and then they should be able to test one-to-one in what's synthetic, you know, being replaced they can only test a lot of them only test for like one to six so you could be one to one to six synthetic steroids or whatever you're using and you could still get away with it really yeah i heard some crazy stuff like that that's why the whole VADA and WADA thing didn't work out, I'm pretty sure. Because VADA does the one-to-one. Oh, I don't know what you mean by one-to-one. When you're saying one-to-one, what do you mean?

They could test your natural testosterone. I'm not super educated on it, so maybe I shouldn't be opening my mouth about it. But they could test synthetic steroids to your natural testosterone levels okay yeah well they're realizing now that they can test for everything when chael suddenly got popped you know like this the new shit that they're doing but he was way over oh he's fucking well that was during the anderson silva fight his is testosterone to epitestosterone which i don't understand how that works. But essentially, it's an indicator that you're using artificial testosterone.

But the most recent one, when he got suspended for two years, he got popped for EPO. He got popped for Clomid and all sorts of shit. Growth hormone. I mean, he was on a cocktail. That's crazy, man. Of different things. Yeah. It makes you wonder.

The testing could be better, in my opinion, though. For sure. I think they should test to the maximum ability. I think that would be the best. Sure. But the problem is, it's about $40,000. That's what every blood test like that is. And they have this chain of custody where they take the blood from you.

They fucking essentially put it in a a suitcase handcuff themselves to it fly to the lab like they have to come to you yeah yeah i did the vada testing for the bj pen fight right yeah yeah that was bj was uh he asked me on twitter if you if for our fight we could do the vada um testing for a whole training camp, and they sponsored it. And so they took all the costs and everything and worked out great. We both obviously passed. Yeah, B-10. It was good.

It was good for the sport, I think. And that's what George wanted to do with Hendricks. But, you know, that whole debacle happened. Yeah, that was a weird situation right the um like george was upset at that after he left and you know said that that was one thing that he wanted to stand up for it was that we need more testing in the ufc where was that coming from from george like what is what is his concern that people are cheating i think yeah right a lot specifically does he know what they're doing or who or what i don't know i don't know he just assumes or yeah maybe maybe i you know there's rumors that fly around about

everyone right i mean i constantly get uh messages on twitter like oh you're because you have back acne or face acne you're your fucking steroid user. Right. You know, I do testing willingly with BJ. And I do VADA for every fight if I could. If my opponent would do it with me. But, you know, it's rumors, I guess, right? Well, there's a lot of experts out there. Yeah.

Fake experts. Yeah, ignorance. There's so much ignorance in there. And me too. I'm not super educated on it either because there's no point for me to be educated on it. I don't want to take any part of it. I think it's bullshit

that people are using it. For the longest time, how many years was it legal where you're allowed to take testosterone? I have no idea. There were some guys that were... I was super surprised. There was one guy that was 25.

He was 25. He had a testosterone use exemption. What the fuck is going on? Yeah, why would you need that? Well, all you have to do is get a doctor that tells the commission, hey, this young man has a medical condition. Right, right. And all you'd have to do to get that medical condition is take steroids.

You take steroids, and then you get off of them. Right. And the endocrine system crashes. Your testosterone is low. Then you get tested. You have physical proof your testosterone is low. The doctor, who is probably unscrupulous, says, yeah, this young man needs testosterone.

Yeah, that's unfortunate because, you know, Yeah, that's unfortunate because martial arts shouldn't be about how physically strong or superior you are to someone. I think it should be about the technique and skill work. Right. That's why I started anyway. Right. I mean... Do you get like a special satisfaction of beating a guy who's physically superior to you, like you said, like Tyron Woodley? Big time, man.

Because naturally i'm not supposed to be better i shouldn't be able to kick his ass well if you but now with the training and the martial arts that i've learned and the skill that i i spend my whole life working towards i'm able to do that i'm able to conquer that so it's a special piece of satisfaction for sure yeah yeah so if like if you took the average person who doesn't know anything about martial arts and they looked at woodley and they looked at you and they say all right who you betting on everyone tells me everyone that tells me he's like i thought you were gonna get fucking steamrolled by woodley everyone why wouldn't you and like uh like just like um family members that would like watch the video. They see my highlight, I'm like jabbing people,

like maybe picking them up, slamming them or something. It's an impressive highlight. But you look at Tyrone, it's just like one shot, KOs, everyone. Like everyone's just sleeping, getting knocked out. He's an intimidating figure, right? Yeah, he's a powerful dude. Now, there's certain styles and approaches when it comes to striking and attacking and you are uh very technical in your approach like you

have i have to be yeah but you have a but you have knockout power though i mean you yeah you knocked out saphanine i mean saphanine's a tough motherfucker you i believe you're the first guy to ever stop him yeah i, I have no idea. Pretty sure. So you are capable of doing it. Yeah, definitely. But when you hear guys like... There was a dude that I know

that I read his Twitter once. He's a nice guy, but on his Twitter, he wrote something like, fuck technical striking. Just stand in the middle of a octagon and let it rip. What are you saying? Hockey fight kind of?

I guess. I mean, the idea was just like test your cojones. Go mano a mano. I'm a big fan of strategy and technique and technical fighting. And that's one of the reasons why I'm a big fan of you. You have a very intelligent approach to to fight now when you when you fight a guy that is just a a bull rusher like a not saying that woodley doesn't have technique but he will explode on you and he tries to finish it with one shot he tries to sprint things like do you do you have

a specific strategy that you use for a guy like that, or do you just go with the flow? I go with the flow, and I think that mastering the techniques that you need to use against a fighter like that is important. Not like thinking, oh, I have to do this, this, and this against him. I think just working techniques in every situation possible for a long period of time, you'll be able to apply it in the situation.

So I like to react. I try not to think too much about what my opponent's good at or what he's going to do. I just like to work on all different kinds of techniques, master them, and react to what's in front of me at that particular time. So when you're training for a guy like Safi, do you watch tape on him? No. No? I never watch anything.

I didn't watch JT. I didn't watch Tyrone. I didn't watch anyone. Wow. Yeah. That's interesting. Why, though? I don't find it beneficial to me at all.

That's fascinating. Yeah. But what if JT had some really bizarre attack he likes to do like you know cyborgs tornado guard or some shit like that you don't want to be aware of that at all well i think if i'm training what i if what all the techniques i'm training at all the time i think if i master those i'll be able to overcome that you know i don't know how to explain it exactly that's not a very good explanation study tendencies and it's a very big part of their game is studying tendencies and and finding openings does safaraz do that or does donahue do that for you

no i just kind of you know i learn one technique at a time and i piece it together i think over the years. And when you master it, you're able to just apply it in the situation. You know, you learn your defenses to certain moves. Right. But if that guy's really good at it or whatever, you know, maybe you work that defense a little more. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well, that's why I'm surprised that you wouldn't like i'm not a believer in footage because you know maybe my opponent will change you know i don't know i'm just not into it i could fight a guy that's 600 pounds one day and 100 pounds the next day i should be able to overcome any any style of fighter that's fascinating fascinating. So when you compete, you're essentially just putting all of your skill and martial arts knowledge on the line, and that's what you like about it. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. That's a better description of it. Did you always knew that you wanted to be an MMA fighter? Once I started training martial arts, yeah. The first day. I was telling Ariel Helwani in my last interview, yeah, pretty much my first day of martial arts. You just knew you were going to be a fighter.

Yeah. Is there anything else that's ever attracted you like that before? Yeah, hockey. I was really into hockey as a young kid, and then when I found martial arts, I just dropped out of that. That's an interesting thing about some fighters is they're not into sports at all. Yeah. Because fights are so compelling yeah it just takes it over everything well so it's also so much on the line it's so much crazier

when you watch a live ufc fight and you watch some chaotic wild fucking fight it's just the amount of investment that you have in it the the nerves and the excitement and the like just watching it just watching it just watching it it's so much more intense than any other sporting event yeah yeah for sure everyone can understand it too no one needs to know the rules or anything everyone knows what's going on right away the only issue is when it goes to the ground like sometimes when it goes to the ground and more technical situations yeah that's why you guess you find there's a lot of booing. And now that the technical striking is coming in, a lot of people aren't enjoying that.

Yes, yeah. You're seeing, it's like waves. It's really interesting how you see, like, there was the Mark Coleman wave where the big, powerful wrestlers were taking guys down, ground and pounding. And then there was the kickboxer wave. There's a jiu-jitsu wave. And now it seems like it's so varied. There's so many different approaches and strategies going on now. You know, you're seeing wrestler style.

And then you're seeing, like, you know, guys like TJ Dillashaw and Dominic Cruz that are accentuating the movement more. It's like so much more movement now. Like, if you watch dominic's fight with mitsugaki there's so much more movement angles in just in that one round yeah giant right movement's giant yeah i'm a big believer in it well when you see guys that are flat-footed and they have this very particular muay thai style does that bum you out is it like doesn't bum me out but i mean i used to fight like that for the longest

time when i fought carlos i was just like i have one direction it's straightforward i'm not gonna go i'm not gonna back up you know and then i kind of open my mind to new things and yeah you have to be open-minded and because every opponent's gonna give you a different reaction, you know? It's going to require a different solution. Yeah. Also, it's like there's something poetic about the ability to faint and you add in all these variables when you add in movement that aren't there when a guy is like this flat-footed approach. Like Conor McGregor in one of his interviews,

like this last post-fight interview, I asked him, you know, we was talking about Poirier, and I said, you said he was basic. Like, what did you mean by that? Yeah, his movement. Yeah, that's what he was saying. It's like this plotting Muay Thai style

that everybody does. Yeah. And then you see Conor, he opens up with like a front leg hook kick. Yeah. You know, he does a lot of wild shit. Yeah, opens up with like a front leg hook kick yeah you know he does a lot of wild shit yeah yeah i like his style it's super cool his style and then his personality is like a weird combination you know like his style i think is very cool as well but like what do you think about a guy like that talks so much shit and gets all this attention

like what do you think about that you do you pretty much do the opposite yeah but for some reason i kind of like it you like it but do you see yourself emulating no never never this is not me and i think he's being him and i think that's so awesome you know he's able to go out there and he's able to uh express himself on the mic and in his fighting you know i think that's that's that's amazing i'm happy for him right but i saw like i saw the influence of that in the dennis bermudez ricardo lamas fight okay because they're in the same division right before the fight they were talking all this mad shit and like these guys because they want the title shot right well they want the title shot the attention and they also see but it also people can real people can recognize when people are forcing it

and trying to be something they're not it's the worst right yeah it's way better to do what you're doing yeah do be you and i think people will recognize uh what you're good at and recognize uh the special things about yourself you know just be you and be you to the fullest i think connor's great at that he's not shy he's great at that. He's not shy. He's him. He's not scared about pissing people off or stepping over people. He's doing his thing. Yeah, no, he's definitely doing his thing.

He's a freaky cat in a lot of ways. The guy's had four fights in the UFC and can fill up a fucking soccer stadium. You know, it's crazy, right? He can, man. If he fights in Ireland, if he beats Dennis Seaver and his next fight is in Ireland

against a big fighter, if it's Aldo for the title in Ireland, they might light that whole country on fire. They might literally smash every building and light the entire country in a truck and bridge. And he's only been around for a little bit. It's crazy.

Four fights. Four fights in the UFC. That's bizarre. It's crazy. Yeah. No wrestlers, though. He hasn bizarre. It's crazy. Yeah. It's, no wrestlers though. He hasn't fought any wrestlers.

Yeah. He moves really well though so that's, that's, that'll be something you know, wrestlers will have to overcome. I want to see him

versus Frankie Edgar. That's what I want to see. That's a good fight. That's what I want for Christmas. That's a great fight. Frankie Edgar, Conor McGregor. Frankie moves so good too

and he's, his penetration shot is so good. He is so fucking relentless, too. I was so blown away by his fight with Cub Swanson. I thought that was going to be a very difficult fight for both fighters. Yeah. And he just overwhelmed them. Yeah, I like Frankie. Yeah, I love that fucking pace he puts on and you

see that pace from the moment he comes in he runs to the fucking octagon and he's just he's in that mindset like she's just gonna start running yeah you know when the energizer bunny yeah and he's a guy who's notorious for training like a fucking wild man notorious like what doing press obligations all that shit, sneaking in workouts. And wild, you know, energetic workouts. Also, his coach, Mark Henry, is like very fucking diligent about notes. Like Brendan Schaub trained with him for a while. He got fucking notes on everything.

Page after page after page of notes. You know, and you see he's constantly working on things and constantly getting better. I'm really impressed by Frankie. I mean, the BJ Penn fight was really impressive, but I was skeptical about BJ going down to 145, first of all. I was like, what is he doing? The fight before that, he fought me, right? Yeah.

Which is crazy. He's fucking nuts. What was it like fighting that guy like that that'd be a weird thing for you because you know he's in it was it was weird because you know i've watched bj since i was a kid and i always loved bj i was like man this guy is so good you know he's so cool he's such a you know he's so raw yeah right he's just hard-nosed just wants to get in there and fight anyone he fought mach Machida. Yeah, what the fuck? At heavyweight.

He's a beast. It was over 205, so it's technically a heavyweight. At the same time, he was talking so much shit about me, and he pissed me off, and I just wanted to eat him alive. So it was like a mixture of emotions. Well, you hurt him standing probably more than anybody ever did. You had him in a lot of trouble, man. Yeah, I did. He's tough.

He wouldn't go down. Didn't even drop to a knee. No, he's he's tough as shit yeah he's definitely tough as shit but it's hard to watch him take those kind of beatings you know yeah yeah and then the frankie edgar beating after that it's it's hard because i mean i don't know who to believe you know you hear mike dolce's take on his camp and then you hear bj's taking his camp it's like i don't hear it i don't know but i know that bj when he was with the marinoviches and he's doing a bunch of shit that he didn't want to do right when he was super uncomfortable and like constantly sore but then you look at what the fuck he did to diego sanchez and you look at that bj the sean shirk bj right he was a

motherfucker he was a tank at 155 yeah and then this desire to go down to featherweight i just didn't understand it it's a bit weird yeah weird yeah i don't know what it is you know just reinventing himself or trying to figure out one new thing yeah it sucks to see a guy like that man the last bit of his career is just went well. It's going to be hard to deal with. What do you think about Anderson Silva? I think he's very skilled. Obviously. Love his movement.

But when you see him, two losses in a row, both kind of freaky. Yeah. Yeah, Weidman, though, you know, he's the real deal. I knew Weidman was going to give him a hard fight. I've trained with Weidman here and there. Yeah. Yeah, he's a tank, this guy. Yeah, he's a beast. Yeah. yeah well he's a weird guy and he just took out machida and i thought machida would be his

hardest fight at that weight harder than than uh and he overcame it it was a difficult fight though i mean he got put in trouble he got put in trouble big time yeah machida is a dangerous guy and machida is another guy who utilizes that strange stance you know machida he'll incorporate more forward stance but he'll occasionally go completely sideways on you too yeah you know that karate style yeah i like to incorporate a lot of stuff he does too yeah i've always been a fan of him he's excellent at that knee check the knee check to the body catches guys coming in with that knee to the body yeah he does you don't know when it's coming. Yeah. I like his takedown defense, too.

Yes. His backwards movement to circle out the – I like that. He did some sumo training, too, which is kind of interesting. So he's really good at, like, popping his hips forward. Oh, right. Circling away from things. Yeah. You know, and he credits that a lot with his takedown defense. Yeah.

Which you never think of sumo as like an applicable modern martial art yeah well you're getting down in your squatted stance right you're able to rotate a lot faster i do that a lot too do you ever use sumo you ever fuck around with it no but um like i've never actually trained sumo but i understand the concepts what you're talking about and i do use that in my wrestling i would like to train it just to wear one of those diapers big fuck and have some dude try to wedge you the shit out of me and drag me onto the ground i watched a wild sumo match the other day because i um you know i watch everything i'll watch

amateur wrestling i'll watch i'll watch karate point tournaments because i think there's something to be learned in point fighting i think there's something about the approach the initial blitz approach of point fighting that uh i forget his name but there's a guy an english guy who's fighting in bellator who's a really good point fighter okay who is now starting to fight in mma and there's the the if you think about like the initial approach of the first strikes that are landed, in point fighting, it's all about that initial approach. It's unrealistic in terms of a continuous match or a five-minute round or something like that. But that skill of being able to blitz in and charge in is very different and very unique.

Yeah, blitzing is a huge factor in MMA. Yeah. A lot of guys are really good at it. Hendrix has a great blitz. Stephen Thompson, one of the best. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that is an area where we're going to see some guys

make the transition over to MMA that have that and that learn all those other aspects of MMA. But it's hard for them. They probably have the hardest road in because at least Muay Thai guys, they're used to continuously fighting. They're used to taking shots and countering. They're used to overcoming obstacles.

Whereas the karate guys, it's also the stamina is not nearly as much of a requirement. It's such a much more difficult thing to do in a way that it is to. The grappling is hard for them too. Grappling is hard. Leg kicks are hard. There's a lot. But that blitz is undeniably effective.

It's just I think that, do you guys ever incorporate that in training? Blitz, oh yeah. Do you do drills for that or or do you ever do point fighting? Yeah, when Steven used to come up to help George, they showed a lot of his blitz style and how to do that. So, yeah, we've taken some of their drills for that, for sure. When you train for a fight, like say if you have an eight-week training camp and it starts out, do you have it set up where camp and it starts out do you have like it's set up where like this

type you know will like get will break things down during this period this period would be like more of a build-up period and then like when do you taper off yeah everyone's kind of different like uh you're always excited when you first start camp right so it always starts explosive then your body starts to break down, so you need to be able to do a little bit shorter sessions, like short but explosive. So, yeah, there is periods of times where, like, farther away from the fight, they're longer sessions,

but less explosive and intensive, you know, more technical approach and drilling and stuff, and then the closer it gets the more time cut down the more just like the hard sparring and work and then uh right before the fight um it's really short you know it's just it's just the short sparrings um the rolling sessions things like that maybe some drilling and some pads but in between that but not long do you ever fuck around with cryotherapy have you done that yet what's cryotherapy again i know oh it's another thing i might i might have done this i gotta get you in there you go into this

box 250 degrees below zero yeah you put a face mask on your mouse did you yeah i did this for my last fight really uh yeah they um at this at my osteopath clinic they got one and i started using it is it neck down or is it a full body down yeah you got to go the full body yeah i've done both but the problem with the neck down one is they don't really get your upper shoulders and your neck i have to squat down and hold my breath yes yeah exactly it's annoying it's annoying yeah this one they have in la there's a couple of them across the country but the one they have in la is insane okay it's full body and i go there all the time i'll take you okay it's amazing okay guys swear eddie bravo turned me on to it he fucking swears by it he goes several times a week right and when he was training for the hoyla gracie match he was

going every day. Right. He said, I couldn't do it without it. He's like, I need it to recover. Yeah. It really speeds things up. Woo! My muscular soreness went way down.

It's amazing. Yeah. Like, you could have, like, incredibly sore muscles from weightlifting or, you know, hill sprints and shit like that. And you go in there and it just floods it out in some way. Yeah. They explained it to me. I'm not, i can't scientifically explain what the details details is but somebody was telling me that shit doesn't work and so i was like damn am i an idiot am i fucking falling for some but then i received the science on it the science is 100 legit because your body thinks

it's fucking dying yeah you're going 250 degrees below zero for three minutes yeah your body's like oh we're fucked this is and your body tries to preserve itself by pulling all the blood into your internal organs and then once you get out into room temperature it just floods it back out and apparently there's like some intense anti-inflammatory response that comes out of that that is amazing for healing that is apparently the number one issue when it comes to injury and even disease is inflammation right and yeah and they're saying that anti-inflammatory responses um and anti-inflammatory like diets that don't promote inflammation like low sugar diets apparently sugar is terrible for inflammation this is all discovered are all a part of what that whole

RegenerKeen thing is all about I'm sure you've heard of that that's like what Weidman had done on his knees Dana White talked about it's a blood spinning procedure oh yeah okay you know about that it's kind of like that PRP but like more intense right yes yeah Dana told know about that uh it's kind of like that prp but like more intense right yes yeah dana told me about that exactly i did prp on my ankles did you because i had bad ankles last year they were fucked up from grappling or uh one was wrestling i tore my um my tendons before the robbie lawler fight oh wow and then after that fight I smashed up this one and I fought Damian Maya so yeah I had PRP held it though now like we see tore it you tore it all the way through or partial tear I think it was a partial

but it was like I couldn't like walk on it for how long pretty much the whole camp holy shit yeah how'd you get through camp sucked it up yeah did you take the shit out of your uncle it was shit yeah uh yeah i had a brace and then i taped over the brace wow yeah did you consider pulling out of the fight i should have probably really yeah but at that point in time like i'd been like pulling out of every second fight it seemed like because of injury you know it was like the carlos fight the bj pen fight and then before that i had some other small before i was like less well known i had some other fights i was like i can't pull out of this fight you know it's too big isn't that just

a part of the game though i mean it seems like you just have to push through yeah and and a lot of fans don't recognize that because not a lot of people want to speak about their excuses for losing and stuff like that. He's got to take it, you know. You're never going to be 100% as a fighter, and you just have to deal with that. You just have to know what is okay to push through and what you need to settle. Like torn ACL, things along those lines where your knee gives out and has lost its stability. I mean, I could still stand up and throw punches and do takedowns so i mean i'm not i was still able to fight it was just painful

is that what it was yeah restricted certain things but i was still able to fight now when you have like an injury like that do you just figure out a way to train around it do you yeah yeah obviously the training is not going to be as good right right so so how do you compensate as far as like your conditioning because that's pretty much rode a bike for the whole time really yeah a bike or airdyne like um yeah an airdyne and yeah like a regular uh stationary bike just doing sprints and yeah tubatas and i couldn't swim I couldn't do a lot of stuff. I like to do a lot of agility work, athletic agility and stuff, and footwork and stuff. I wasn't able to do any of that, obviously.

George got big into gymnastics. Did you wind up doing any of that as well? I did it with him and Faraz for a while, and I never stayed with it. I might start more later on, um i felt it was more beneficial for me at that point in time just to to work more with uh john chamber rather than more of the dynamic uh movement and stuff my my base wasn't there you know athletically right and chamber has been your strength and conditioning coach for a while. He does George as well. Well, not anymore.

Doesn't? No. I think George just kind of floats around. George takes a similar approach as me. It's like if you're efficient in your movements and in your skill work and your technique, you don't really have to be the most conditioned athlete. Right. So that's more important than this just

cardio and heart rate yeah i mean because efficiency is huge right and when you're efficient you you put out less energy and it's easier like have you seen a guy who's like a really good boxer boxing guy who doesn't know what he's doing like he barely even breaks a sweat yeah because you can just keep moving and loose and your body's normal it's like your body's used to doing it yeah yeah that's that's my belief but it there is there is a factor of being well conditioned also sure that high high of a level when you have two efficient fighters you know at the at the highest level you need to be in good condition. Have you ever had a fight at altitude?

Yeah. Is Calgary at altitude? Maybe. I'm not sure. I heard Calgary is, and I fought there a couple of times. I don't know. I'm not sure, though. I don't think anything like Denver or anything like that. Mexico City was fucking bananas.

Oh, yeah? 7,300 feet above sea level. That's 2,000 feet above Boulder level that's 2 000 feet above boulder were people uh showing any oh yeah yeah hunt did but hunt took the fight on three weeks notice okay verdum had lived up there for a couple months oh and trained up there but that makes sense i mean hunt struggled against ben rothwell in denver which is 2 000 feet lower so um tough fight for him you know take on three weeks notice yeah that is a tough fight do you find yourself staying at 170 or do you think you'll ever move

you're gonna move up to 185 yeah not because I have to I've I've talked about it before it's not because I have to uh it's just sort of curiosity and uh the experience to fight bigger guys but I want to do what I have to do at this division first. So if you win the title at 170, then you move up. Yeah, I'll probably still fight at welterweight too. Really? Go back and forth? Yeah, because I mean, it's easy for me to make welterweight.

So I'll probably, if I can, if I can fight enough in the year, and UFC is cool with it. So essentially for you, your motivation is challenges you want to keep things interesting and challenge yourself yeah yeah for sure i want to overcome obstacles and test myself and find out who i really am do you ever see yourself competing in straight kickboxing or muay thai yeah i've thought about it maybe you know branching off and doing stuff like that. Maybe a boxing fight eventually and stuff like that. That would be probably pretty hard for the UFC to agree to, though.

Yeah, but who knows at what point I'll do that. It won't be anytime soon. Yeah, because Rampage has talked about doing that recently. He's talked about just leaving MMA and boxing. Oh, really? Yeah, I would never do that. It would be like how I'm competing in Metamorris. Yeah, but I just don't see like the UFC ever letting you. Yeah, but maybe I won't be fighting MMA at that point. Maybe I'll be 40, you know? So you'd be 40 and take on some Muay Thai

fights? Yeah, who knows? Really? Yeah. So you're just a free spirit, just going with the flow and yeah, man. Are you enjoying this life you got a wild fucking life man yeah it's fun sometimes it's boring as hell but what's boring as hell the monotony training yeah i like to just always be doing something that's another thing my girlfriend has a hard time dealing with it's like i can't just sit here i have to be doing something well that's got to be what part of what makes you successful, though. Yeah, probably. The fact that you have this constant drive.

Yeah, I have a lot of drive, for sure. Do you read any motivational shit, or do you get motivated by anything? No, no. I watch a lot of stuff, you know, footage and martial arts stuff. That motivates me, I guess. But nothing, like, you know, art of war or any of that shit i have an audio book of sun tzu do you yeah do you listen to it yes i'm done on the way to training no not really just kind of randomly okay what about musashi you ever fuck around with the book of five rings no never heard of it i found it to be uh more applicable okay and uh art of war art of

war all the strategy stuff i thought was really interesting but it really is a lot of it is about actual warfare yeah it's not not head-to-head combat right whereas miyamoto musashi was a samurai and so a lot of his stuff was about one-on-one right competition yeah and it was also rushing recognizing uh yeah he's this is who i have on my arm oh yeah yeah okay i've seen this guy before well he was this great samurai but fought 62 men in uh one-on-one combat killed them all just fought sword swords he would he would get bored so he would uh take on people with wooden swords They would have a metal sword, and he would use a wooden one. Yeah, he killed a guy with an oar.

Is this fantasy? No, no, no, no, no. What era was this? I believe it was the 1400s. Wow. Yeah. And he would kill them? Yeah.

Oh, yeah, he killed everybody. Go rid of no show. It's cold. You show up with a sword he beats you over the head with a oar he would he would whittle the oars down i want to say what year was that i want to say it was the 1400s let's see say Miyoto Motomu Sashi it was 1584 yeah he died in 1645 how he was 61 years old natural causes probably stomach cancer they're saying hmm wonder why it says that yeah but his book is fascinating because he was really into a big part of his philosophy was about staying balanced okay about keeping the mind balanced because you know sword fighting is

such a fucking unbelievably intense and stressful scenario yeah that he was all about balancing out your life with art and philosophy and poetry and even calligraphy i mean it wasn't about just being this brute it was all about balancing the mind so that there was no extraneous stress that all everything was about the the technique being clean the mind being sharp it makes a lot of sense yeah and like that everything was completely balanced he's a fascinating guy. I believe in balance in your life too. I'd like to read that. Do you have hobbies other than MMA? I like hunting.

I just got into that. I just got my hunting license this year. Just this year? Yeah. Where have you hunted? Well, I just went up in BC. What area? Princeton.

Yeah, Princeton area. did you get anything we got a rabbit that's it yeah is that the first time you've hunted uh as an adult yeah as a kid my dad and my grandpa always took me and my brother out but uh you know as an adult this is this was like the first time i've had an opportunity but i'm gonna go a lot next year um i got a lot of friends that go like elk hunting and stuff and that's awesome i've got a few different offers from some friends that want to take me on some trips it's gonna be amazing well that's the cool thing about being a famous person as soon as people find out that you're into hunting like i want to go hunt with rory mcdonald yeah it helps out to take you yeah oh that'll definitely happen yeah i got some buddies that are really big into it so a lot of ufc fighters yeah chad mendez he killed his first elk this year with a bow he killed a deer too um tj tj killed a huge fucking bear last

year and uh put it on social media and everybody got angry at him did he eat it on the bear yeah yeah who cares people are fucking crazy. They think you're killing Boo Boo and he's in the middle of taking picnic baskets and speaking English and he went up and fucking murdered him. They don't understand balance and ecosystem and all that stuff.

So you've got to educate themselves before. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of convenience in their thinking too. I mean, it's just so easy to just look at someone. You mean I had a guy that got upset with me because I shot a bear and he was wearing leather shoes i had this conversation with him like you know how crazy this conversation is so ignorant man yeah and and a lot of them think uh it's cruel it's like but the meat you're eating at the supermarket do you know cruel they're

treating those animals like it's insane what's also the getting upset at someone for hunting when you're driving by restaurants left and right you know fast food joints supermarkets on pretty much every crowded street that you drive down everywhere you look there's animals that have been killed it's just it's a ridiculous thing to concentrate on a hunter who takes it in the most natural way possible. Lack of education, maybe. Well, insulation. There's a lot of it. I mean, there's ignorance. I'm sure you deal with a parallel or a similar kind of an ignorance when it comes to fighting.

Because when you tell people that you're a fighter, they probably assume you're some thuggish asshole. And you're like, wait a minute, this guy is so even-keeled. and you're like wait a minute this guy is like so like even killed like i don't do you get that sometimes where people like they don't understand why you are so calm and normal but yet you're yeah elite world-class fighter yeah i guess so yeah there's some situations yeah they don't they're like it's kind of um counterintuitive yeah yeah exactly yeah do you ever have people like judge you because the fact that you're a fighter? Not so much. Most of the people now, it's super popular, right?

Right. So they're like, oh, it's cool. But seven years ago, it probably wasn't so much. Oh, yeah. When I was, like, 14? Yeah. What was that like? They're like, why are you doing this?

Go to school. Get a real job, you know? Like, you're never going to make any money. I'm like, i bet you i probably will i'll make more money doing this than you know working construction or something well now people realize that yeah but back then it wasn't it wasn't popular it is kind of a crazy thing if you think about people that entered into it when it wasn't very profitable like boy you have to really love it yeah those guys i'm so i'm so like thankful for

like the gracies and the guys in the first ufcs and you know randy tito all these guys man dan henderson still yeah he's still at it oh man that guy's fighting musashi he doesn't get enough credit this guy oh it's a fucking animal he's one of the toughest guys that's ever walked the face of the planet yeah you know and his last fight with cormier you know but kind of like basically two or three weight classes and bigger than him getting ragdolled yeah yeah it's um crazy it was so important for those guys to have that passion to pursue this and those guys really should be heralded as the the true pioneers that they were. Even though Hoyce Gracie says a bunch of crazy shit today, like he said a bunch of crazy shit about Eddie Bravo, who's my best friend, I still have nothing but love and respect

for that guy. Because if it wasn't for Hoyce Gracie, I would have never done jiu-jitsu. I would have never known what it was. If that guy didn't have the balls to step in there and fight guys like Dan Sever and you see him catch a guy on a triangle and you're like, what the fuck just happened? That opened my eyes so much to what martial arts, what the real potential for martial arts could be. We've seen martial arts evolve so much just in a couple of decades.

Yeah, 20 years. Yeah, it's insane. More than over the last 1,000 years. It's crazy the amount it's changed. Yeah, I last thousand years it's crazy that the amount has changed yeah i mean i was competing in the 80s man and nobody knew anything everybody thought that if somebody tried to wrestle you you just fucking catch them with a punch and knock them out yeah everybody thought they would just head kick people they were on the way to you didn't realize how easy it would be for you to get smashed yeah nobody had an idea yeah i love talking like

back in the day like my old kickboxing coach and stuff like just just knee him in the head yeah i had a boxing coach that would say man anybody tries to take me down i'll sidestep uppercut that was this whole thing sidestep uppercut i'm like yeah what if they're shooting at your legs it's not necessarily a bad idea but making it practical is a whole other thing. Yeah. There's one dude who was explaining to me that he didn't even learn martial arts because, man, you know what I'd do? I'd kick somebody's fucking knee out. I'm like, I'm going to show you some fights.

I'm going to show you Alistair Overeem versus Ben Rothwell. That knee kick thing doesn't really work that well all the time. Be amazed how durable your knee is. How many shots to the leg your knee can kick. Do you fuck around with that oblique kick? Do you do that thing? The inside?

No, I'm not really into it. That's a kick that's kind of made a comeback over the last few years. A lot of the Greg Jackson guys do it. Yeah, because you used to see that in those old Wing Chun books. They would throw a lot that weird kick. And I was like, ooh, that's a goofy kick. Yeah, it's a bit different.

But you see Carlos Condit likes to do it a lot. John Jones likes to do it a lot. It's a good kick if you learn it correctly. Yeah, Jones is effectively with his other strikes, too. He guys down and then pop, pop, pop up he's so fucking tall too yeah that's such a huge advantage yeah yeah i haven't played with it you know but i don't rule it out yeah no i think it's a really excellent technique there's a kick i like that comes from the same kind of angle but it's a head kick um crescent or your crescent kick no it's like it goes mm-hmm crescent your crescent you know it's like it goes up to the you know how like I do like this front kick mm-hmm

you know I do it the heel you know you just come up on that side with oh I see what you're saying it's kind of a weird kick so you're kind of it's like a misdirection sort of a thing like they think it's coming and you just yeah it goes like it's your back leg so it comes out this way but it ends up like coming up at a weird angle yeah like a c right yeah hmm that's sort of the opposite maybe of the question mark kick it's the exact opposite yeah i love that question mark kick yeah it's such a you know the brazilian kick for some people like um was it glabey feitosa yeah famous so it was a beast god damn he and he used to bring it down yeah he was so flexible way

out and whack oh my god there's some amazing photos of him doing that online that's a classic kyokushin technique and taekwondo as well that's where i learned it taekwondo guys used to do it but before they used to call it the brazil kick, it was always known as the question mark. Yeah. That's such a beautiful. Flash kick. Yeah. We used to call it fake front kick, round kick.

That's what we used to call it in Taekwondo. But this idea of misdirection, like you see it so often too with wrestling where guys will fake a shot and then land a punch instead. There's so much misdirection and fighting to try yeah faints faints are giant when you see guys that don't faint and guys that just plow forward with no no misdirection no fainting whatsoever yeah one of the most successful guys is george yes yeah very much so george was great and it still is uh at you never knew what the fuck he was going to do.

Yeah. It's crazy. People would just be like locked up. I don't know if he's going to shoot. He's going to jab me. He's going to kick me. Yeah. Yeah.

George was also great at utilizing the momentum that he got up into being a champ and just carrying that forward. He was so comfortable with the experience of fighting in a high profile bout that you would see guys that were fighting him they were just so caught up in the bright lights in the moment and then boom he's taking him down boom he's dropping elbows on him you know it's just he was relentless just relent one of the greatest martial arts martial artists that ever lived ever my ever and a great representative yeah of martial arts too because he was such a good guy and he's such a good guy spoke really well yeah yeah yeah i i'm happy that he got out when he did and you know selfishly in some ways i hope he stays out because

uh well yeah i think it i think he still has it in him though though. I think he does, too, but that's what I worry about. I hate seeing a guy stay too long. The thing that bugs me more than anything is talking to guys that have been in fights for, or in MMA for a long time, and I see the deterioration. That's hard to watch. I think if he's patient with it this time, with this knee surgery, coming back slowly, enjoying the training, and then maybe a year or two years down the road, and he has that, he's back to where he was or, you know, where he needs to be, it could be interesting.

Well, it certainly could be interesting. Because he'll be having fun with it again. Right. For the longest time, I know George wasn't having fun fighting. Right? He's doing it because it was pressure and this and that right? Well, he was up to that incredibly high level to where he's making so much fucking money I mean, he's making more money than anybody his pay-per-views were so I And he had endorsements and again, he's such a great Representative that people would like scrambleramble to have him sponsor their product.

Or to sponsor him, rather. Right. But I just think that there's a certain amount of punishment you can take in your career. And that past that, there's a point of no return. And I worry about that. Because he's so well-spoken. He's such a good guy. I worry about guys getting to that point in

no return is that something that ever comes into your mind no doesn't bother me but when you see like these studies on traumatic brain injuries in nfl players and yeah i'm not an nfl player even in fighters i mean you hear about it in fighters as well. Yeah, I think it also has to do with certain styles of fighters though. I think guys like me take a lot less damage. Right.

If I fought like I did against Carlos in all my fights, I'd have a short career and then I'd probably have to be concerned with some effects down the road.

Right. Like a Forrest Griffin style. Yeah. Forrest Griffin versus Stephen Bonner. If you look at my fights or the statistics of my fights, concerned with some effects down the road right like forest griffin style yeah forest griffin versus stephen bonner if you look at my fights or the statistics of my fight i don't get hit much right you know so it's it's not a huge issue for me well you're good defensively when you do get hit too like you were one of the few guys like robbie tagged you but you figured out a way to maintain your cool yeah stay calm man was that the most you

were hurt in a modern fight yeah yeah i was okay though you know i wasn't uh i i i was definitely hurt like the shot bang it gave me like a you know my eyes went back or whatever and i fell down but i remember i was thinking clearly through the whole thing and i remember my legs being so tired at that point of the fight that i just needed to go down you know so i think i think actually um uh the more scrap the a bigger hit for me was the carlos conant fight he hit me in the temple the top of the head and i was just like so scrambled man yeah it's weird how different spots in your head will do that isn't it yeah yeah the side of the head too is really good the temple i like to target that area it does

something weird to equilibrium right yeah yeah if you if you look at um my knockout against uh pile and saffodine it was pretty much similar how I finished them. I got them on four points, and I would give them shots to the temple sitting over top of them. And when they both got up, they did the same thing. They would get up, and they would think they were fine, and their legs would give out. And they keep going back and forth side to side,

and they have to have a guy hold them up. I think there's something to say about that that that shot that impact there yeah we were just talking on like someone was talking online we were talking about like what shots hurt guys and what shots don't hurt guys there's no rhyme or reason to it like sometimes you'll see a guy get caught with like a grazing shot to the forehead and his legs would just give out right yeah uh conor mcgregor was kind of like that when he knocked out yeah perfect example yeah kind of just like hit him there yeah interesting yeah conor hits fucking hard for that weight class it's crazy he hits very hard for that weight class i always wonder if he's going to stay at 145 or if it becomes too much of a struggle.

Yeah, he says it's hard for him to get there. Yeah. Who impresses you these days? Like, do you, at a fighter's, like, who do you like watching? I've been watching a lot of Ronda Rousey or judo. I want to get good at that. Conor's movement, punching style. It's interesting how he keeps his chin up in the air

a little bit but um his uppercuts and his movement after that cool well he's a very john jones how he mixes things up yeah with uh you know his elbows and his distance and stuff like that ground and pound john's very creative too like i love that move that he did with glover where he ranched his shoulder and uh have you ever done that before and he's like nope just kind of made it up on the spot i knew that it was a vulnerable i knew there's something not supposed to do in wrestling yeah and so he just realized that glover had a light underhook just got his forearm behind the elbow and just yanked the out of it. Yeah. Tore Glover's shoulder up. Crazy, huh?

Yeah. Yeah, you just have to go with the flow, I guess. Be like water, like Bruce said. Yes, exactly. I find it fascinating when you see a guy. One of the things I'm really fascinated by is Gustafson and Rumble Johnson. Okay. Because Rumble Johnson, who was a standout at welterweight, is now fighting 35 pounds heavier.

How? Fucking, he's huge. He just dieted the shit out of himself. He's a perfect example of you can cut too much weight and it actually fucks you up. Like the point of diminishing returns, he had passed that, clearly. Yeah. I don't know how he grew so much. with over him like that's crazy well i know how over him yeah yeah well i think we know how rumble did it too i don't know i mean rumble was always big like rumble was i caught i saw rumble in between fights once and he was 230 pounds yeah you're

right you're right i did see him in between fights he was massive i think he's just incredibly disciplined and dieting and starving himself down to 170 at that point no bigger guys who cares it fucked him up i mean when he lost a cost check he just had nothing in the tank it got to a certain point where his body he was good for a certain amount of of effort but his body was so depleted, not saying, taking anything away from Koscheck, because Koscheck legitimately beat him, but your body, when you, you have so much depletion,

there's a certain point in time, where your body's like, you know what? It stops. There's nothing left. There's nothing left. It's just not functioning right. Right, right.

And at light heavyweight, he's a motherfucker, man. Yeah, who'd want to fight, like, I'd have no interest at fighting at 155. Yeah. Zero interest. There's a lot of guys doing motherfucker, man. Yeah, who would want to fight? I'd have no interest in fighting at 155. Yeah. Zero interest.

There's a lot of guys doing it, man. I'd way rather fight bigger guys. Yeah. I don't have any interest in losing that much weight. Well, look at Frankie. I mean, Frankie, for the longest time, when he was a lightweight champion, he was weighing 155, fighting 155. Yeah, I know.

That's funny, huh? He barely cuts to make 145. He can make 135. Really, huh? Yeah. champion he was weighing 155 fighting yeah 55 yeah i know he's that's funny yeah he barely cuts to make 145 he can make 135 really yeah oh 100 i guarantee you he could make 135 yeah it wouldn't be fun but he could do it right right yeah that's cool it's it was a good decision to move to 45 though yeah yeah anybody else that is exciting to you Yeah. Yeah. Anybody else that is exciting to you?

There always is, you know. Like, I've watched a lot of Bruce Lee. Do you really? Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much every fighter does. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. There's a lot of older guys, too. I don't know. I'm very random. The newer guys, though, I've been watching Connor and Rhonda a lot lately. I love Rhonda's armbar technique. Yeah. I think her armbar technique might be the best I've ever seen. Yeah, she's got a great armbar.

Her setups and the way she's able to adjust when opponents try to roll out of her moves, as they try to get out of it, she just sinks it in tighter and tighter and tighter, and she follows them. She's so used to attacking with armbars that she kind of knows what they're going to do before they know what they're going to do. So as they try to defend, she's one step ahead of them, tightening it up even further. Jordan Burroughs. I watch a lot of him for wrestling.

Do you know who he is? No. Jordan Burroughs, great American wrestler i think he won olympics and world championships uh great explosive double probably one of the best double legs around interesting interest interesting style watching him and hearing about a lot of his techniques helped me a lot in my wrestling well george was really interesting in his wrestling approach because he didn't wrestle in high school didn't wrestle in college and trained a lot in my wrestling. Well, George was really interesting in his wrestling approach because he didn't wrestle in high school, didn't wrestle in college, and trained

with a lot of Russian nationals up there in Montreal, right? Yeah, he trained with the Montreal team, yeah. Is there a lot of high-level wrestling up there? Yeah, I'd say. You know, Gia

I can't, I'm never able to say his last name. Cesare? Cesarean? Mm-hmm. I don't know. He's a world champ and I think Olympic silver medalist. He's super technical. He's helped me a lot with the wrestling.

I think he's helped George a lot. Yeah, there's a lot of good wrestlers there and this for us bring guys like that in does he have like wrestling classes yeah yeah yeah comes in and there's also some other wrestlers that come in and there's a some Greco guys that come in now yeah well it's just such an amazing sport I love MMA I just love that there's so much variation there's so many so many variables to consider there's so many different options and different approaches it's just constantly exciting and interesting to me you know and so much to learn there is and i i love that there's

guys like you man that are out there you're on the edge you know you're you're constantly pushing it and just really fun to watch your fight man thanks i really appreciate it i really appreciate you coming on here too yeah no it, no, it's fun. It's fun. Good conversation. And thanks for the plug at the beginning. Joe Rubin Podcast. Check it out.

No worries. That's Rory McDonald. And if people want to follow you on Twitter, what is your Twitter? It's Rory underscore McDonald. Yeah. McDonald, not MC. It's MAC. Yeah, you don't want some dude out there faking it.

Is there some dude out there pretending to be you? Is there anybody? Oh, yeah. It's MAC. Yeah, you don't want some dude out there faking it. Is there some dude out there pretending to be you? Is there anybody? Oh, yeah. I'm sure. Oh, that's another thing I had to talk to you about before we leave. The music? The fucking music. The walking music.

We've talked about this on the podcast before, but there's a great story. You changed your phone number, and the UFC did know that you had a new phone number. So they were texting your old phone number. Yeah, they sometimes do that. And some other dude who got your number who was a fan, he was picking your walk-in music. So when I moved from Kelowna, B.C., the small town I was doing martial arts at, when I finally made the move to Montreal, I had to switch to that area, right, the phone number?

So my old phone number went to this random guy in Kelowna and uh apparently he was a fan of me and uh um Jason the guy uh at UFC who was asking for my entrance music just had my old number and uh and so this guy was he was like hey Roy what's uh what entrance music do you want for the next fight and this guy was like just picked up on it was like hmm pretending to be me and so he kept giving him my entrance music so for the longest time I kept walking out to the most random shit the best one was the MC Hammer one and you made fun of me you're like this shit sucks well it was a terrible song you yeah you made fun of me for that one. Who did you fight?

Who was it that you fought? Mike Pyle. Mike Pyle. And Mike Pyle came out to some classic song. It was a rocky... Because it was in Philly. We fought in Philly. Oh, that's right.

So I said it was classic. And then Mike Goldberg was like, well, this is classic too. I go, yeah, but this song sucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is kind of a bummer because I saw MCc hammer after i said that right like i saw him like a couple fights later and he came up to me and said i'm like i feel bad now i said your song sucks well it's on back in the day but yeah i mean it's not my kind of music but some people like it and apparently this certain fan enjoyed the song i thought i would enjoy it too which songs did you

choose here's some songs you had uh metallica seek and destroy me rihanna is me okay so you picked those all the way up to mc hammer yeah mc hammer did you pick up uh did you no tupac and biggie was that you that was me yeah that was you that's must that was the one probably where i i on to it. So MC Hammer was the catalyst. Yeah. That was the last one. So that was the last one that guy picked. And the one I, the Tupac and Biggie song.

Yeah. That was when I fought Shea Mills. And Jason came up to me and he's like, and it would have continued on if this didn't happen. came up to me and he's like and it would have continued on if this didn't happen he comes up to me in person he's like oh sorry um we can't get the rights to that song um whatever it was it was like a nickelback song and i was trying to get you to come out the nickelback yeah so i was like what are you talking about and uh he was like yeah you asked you i texted you you told me this song i'm like dude i never texted you anything and we started arguing like he's like yes you did and i'm like no i didn't man and i'm like pull up your phone

let's see it so he take this phone out and he's like look he said it right here i'm like what number is this go into the contacts see what number it is it was my old number i was like dude this is not my number man did you call your old number and talk to that no i should have though fuck yeah we should call him right now we should does he still have it what is my old number eight two don't say it out loud you don't want to do the bomb done we should call him we'll call him after the show we don't want to fuck with you bombed on. We should call him. We'll call him after the show. We don't want to fuck with this dude. I've got to figure out my old number. Well, just text Jason.

Ask him to find it. Yeah, yeah. He might have deleted it. All right. Anyway, listen. Oh, no. I remember that number. You got it?

Yeah. Okay. We'll call it afterwards. Rory underscore MAC. MacDonald. Follow him on Twitter. When's your next fight scheduled? You're waiting.

Well, you're waiting for the title fight. Yeah. your next fight scheduled? You're waiting for the title fight. After the title fight's over, you get the next fight. Johnny Hendricks fighting Robbie Lawler December 6th. Two weeks from now. Yep. The winner of that fights me. Beautiful. On a date.

To be decided. Hopefully in Canada, right? Dana said it's for sure in Canada. Oh, wow. So will that be in Toronto or Montreal? It could be Toronto, Calgary, Montreal, Vancouver. Right, right. There's a lot of spots for you.

Yeah. Wow. Listen, man. This was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was. And I really appreciate you doing it. Thanks, man. And I appreciate your style.

Love watching you fight. I'm a big fan. Thanks, man. This was cool for me. Roy McDonald, ladies and gentlemen. All right. We'll be back tomorrow with Lewis from Unbox Therapy. Until then, take care.

Bye-bye. Big kiss. Mwah.