The Joe Rogan Experience - #612 - Billy Corben

Episode Date: February 11, 2015

Billy Corben is a documentary producer and director, best known for his films "Cocaine Cowboys " & "Cocaine Cowboys 2" and also "Broke" & "The U" for ESPN's 30 for 30 series. His latest film "Dawg Fight" will be available online on March 12, 2015. http://www.dawg-fight.com http://podcasts.joerogan.net

The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Yeah. All right, we're live. Billy Corbin, what are you doing? You tweeting? You texting? You can't fucking do that while we're online.

I can do that all the time. I realize it doesn't matter how much of my life I spend tweeting, and at this point it's been a significant percent. And I've got a cool little following, but for what I dedicate and put into it, I don't know that the ROI is quite there, especially when I can just sit back on my ass and my phone just blows up when they go,

Dude, are you listening to Rogan? He's talking about cocaine cowboys again. It's like, I don't have to tweet. I'll just let Joe take care of it for me. Like, seriously, the feedback that I get and the love that I get from people, you know, your audience, your listenership is just off the charts. Like, my Twitter metrics dwarf in comparison to your listeners just hitting me up. My family, like, are you listening to Rogan?

Are you listening to Rogan? I'm like, right now I'm working. But they're like, no, no, you got to. I'm like, don't you work? And they're like, no, I'm listening to Rogan. We'll make a deal. You keep making awesome fucking documentaries. I'll keep talking about them.

They'll keep getting out there. Dude, I like that deal. That's a hell of an arrangement. One day you got to do a live remote from Miami, though. This town, dude, I've got to tell you. You like Miami more than you like L.A. I like Miami more than I like anything, honestly. That's so weird.

Why is that? Because you're smart. You're really rare for a guy from Miami. I've always said that if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami. It that if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami. It's a great way to starve to death. It's true. Open a bookstore anywhere and you'll starve to death, actually.

Now, maybe a Kindle store, but like, I, well, I get it. This town, which has been, incidentally, nothing but good to me my whole life, Los Angeles, I mean, like, broken hearts fuel the power grid and tears come out of the faucets like i landed lax i turn it to raymond fucking chandler all of a sudden i just like i get really sad here i don't know what it's the it's the fucking homeless guy and pretty woman screaming on hollywood boulevard like that's this like that's

this town to me like it just it's it's sad to me. Miami is like, I think Tony Montana said it best. It's just a great big pussy waiting to be fucked. A great big pussy. Miami is the city of the future and always will be. There's just endless opportunity there, but it never quite gets to that level. The famous saying is that LA is where you go when you want to be somebody. New York is where you go when you are somebody. And Miami is where you go when you want to be somebody. New York is where you go when you are somebody. And Miami is where you go when you want to be somebody else.

And that's the thesis of all of our work, in a way. That's the motto of our company, of Rack and Tour. It's too long to put on a t-shirt, but that's the message. That's the takeaway, I think. That's not too long to put on a t-shirt. That could be worked out. Yeah, small font, good spacing. We're designing it right now It's not be worked out. Yeah a small font good spacing I like we're designing it right now. I could that could be worked pre-order pre-order right now folks

Yeah, I mean I obviously like it here in a lot of ways what I don't like here is the amount of humans There's there's your quantity overwhelming supply of human beings here to the point that I think that anytime you get too many people in one place you devalue those people it's like I think that's the case with everything I mean I think if you're a guy you have a million fucking girlfriends they're all waiting for you in a warehouse you're not gonna care if one of them dies you know you're just not you're just not you're barely gonna care if you have an airplane hangar filled with tens and you just walk in you go you in the back with the yellow hair Come this way, please. You're that's your it doesn't mean anything if you have one wife that you love dearly

It's gonna mean a lot more if something happens to her I think LA has too many fucking people and I think the when you get too many people you there's this Sort of weird things that happens where you stop caring about them. They don't mean anything to you. But is it quantity or is it quality? Well, there's too many. The quality is here. Because there are so many who each think that they're very important.

Because we're all, to be fair, the center of our own universe. I mean, but like everybody, like everybody, I don't want to say, I realize there's no other way to say this other than how it's going to sound. But like the self-worth meter is off the charts for way too many people. It is, but it's also a fake meter. Like people are like holding up a meter of what they're pretending their self-worth is. But in reality, what they really think about themselves, they're incredibly insecure, which is why they're here trying to validate themselves in the first place. This is a weird town in that everybody who comes here wants to be someone special.

And usually they want to be someone special because they weren't special when they were children. So they get here, you seek out this ultimate thing, which is fame. And now because of people like Kim Kardashian and reality shows... You don't even have to do anything for it anymore. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to have a special talent. That's the troubling thing to me.

You don't have to put in work anymore. Yeah. And that manifested itself with this Kanye Beck thing. It's like, Beck, I mean, you can't really ask for a more gifted musician or songwriter. As far as artistryry is concerned you could say you could be subjective about it you could say you like him you don't like him but the guy's an artist i mean legitimately he puts in the work he play he writes everything he plays every every frag and instrument on his on his album so it's like the guy's putting in the work and why devalue

somebody who's actually an accomplished right artist and say like, his art isn't worth as much as somebody else's art. Kanye West has a real ego problem. He needs psychedelics more than anyone I've ever seen in the public eye. He's such an insufferable douchebag. And that's because his ego is completely out of control.

He wants people to pay attention to him. He wants to be loved. He wants to be great. He wants to be great. He wants to be great That's his big thing. Leave me alone. Let me be great. You know you fucking rhyme shit dude surrounded, but you know that's it No, no offense just to his handlers But like you're surrounded by awful people those the people are supposed to keep you in check and give you some awesome Perspective on your place in the universe, which is always smaller than you can't do that They don't that's not their job their job is to make money. And the way they make money

is to keep rubbing his back and pushing him out there in the ring. I mean, that's it. Keep getting him to make more money. Jewish people, we have our families to both blow up our heads and also put us right back in our place. I remember I got into some trouble a couple years ago. I was on a jury.

I was a jury foreman in a criminal case in Miami-Dade Circuit Court, uh it was a armed robbery case and i tweeted because that's what i do i didn't tweet about the case but i did my usual shit of just kind of observations of the courthouse i noticed that it was it was named for this guy richard gerstein who was a state attorney who had uh had rumored ties to meyer lansky later represented Pee Wee Herman in his indecent exposure case in Florida, you know, when he was in the, you know, jerking off in the adult theater. And just things about,

I could see from the window in the jury pool room, I was like, how, you know, how appropriate that the view from the jury room in the criminal courthouse is one of the greatest crimes perpetuated on the people of Miami-Dade, which was the Marlins Park, the publicly financed, you know, sports welfare boondog people of Miami-Dade, which was the Marlins Park, the publicly financed sports welfare boondoggle

of Miami Marlins Stadium, baseball park. I'm ignorant to that. We'll get back to that, but I'm just tweeting stupid observational shit and then my usual sort of aggregating articles. So this comes up on appeal, the public defender. We convict him of a lesser included offense. The public defender says, oh, the jury foreman was tweeting like live tweeting the trial which is not what happened oh i didn't delete anything all my tweets are still there so the miami herald like rips me they have

this completely talent-free uh writer at the herald she actually slept her way to the middle is what she did she slept with her married editor and got a promotion, and it was a whole scandal. Really? Yeah. And now I call her America and Cuba's worst columnist. And she still has a job. It's unbelievable. And she, like, rips me for being a, what was it, like, tweeting twit. That's what she called me, a tweeting twit.

And my parrot won't shit on the Herald, you know, when I line its cage with it. So, like, the Herald's masthead is like miami herald uh yesterday's news tomorrow corrections to follow that's their shtick so like my but my grandpa old school they still read the newspaper you know he likes the ink on his fingers and so he reads this like vicious column about about me about his grandson and his takeaway is this he's like so this is a few years ago so he says says to me, he goes, how many Twitter followers do you have? And I was like, at the time, I was like, maybe 10,000. I was like, I don't know, about 10,000.

He goes, Justin Bieber has 22 million. And that was it. I felt like shit. He put me right back. I was reminded of my place in in the universe with one with that which is first of all how the hell does my grandfather know i don't even know that he knows what twitter is but grandfather sounds like a dick i'm gonna be honest with you like he's a grandpa he's a wonderful man my miyawolo he's a wonderful wonderful man he is well that's

all he had to say yeah justin bieber has. He didn't say to me, like, I'm ashamed of you and what you did and this woman destroying you in the newspaper. He was pretty cool with that. He was just trying to understand this Twitter thing a little bit better. That's all. He's still not on it, though. That's funny, though. Well, yeah, I mean, that

having someone in your life to keep you in check like that is important. Or having something. You know, I don't think he has anything to keep him in check, that is important, or having something. I don't think he has anything to keep him in check, which is why he thinks it's funny to go on stage and interrupt people's performances or acceptance speeches. Why do they even bother voting?

Why don't they just Kanye pick who wins everything? How about this? How about the Emmys are stupid? How about the Oscars are stupid? They're all stupid. Award shows for art are dumb. They really are. Because art is incredibly subjective. And this idea that you're going to have this one big moment where

everybody dresses up like a penguin and you all get together and pretend that this is our night to shine. Tom Ford's got to make a living too, dude. Who's Tom Ford? He does the tuxes like Justin Timberlake. He does tuxes. It's kind of like his shtick. He's a fashion designer. But like Justin Timberlake. He does tuxes is kind of like his shtick. He's a fashion designer Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, but like I I'm not a big we everybody always I often get introduced or like people like a write-up a

Bio or blurb on me. They'll be like award-winning filmmaker. I'm like, I don't actually think I've won any awards I don't I guess we have along the way like I got it I got a key to the city of Miami and Miami Beach which was incredibly disappointing because when You know you're in Miami Beach and somebody gives you a key to the city of Miami and Miami Beach, which was incredibly disappointing. Because when you're in Miami Beach and somebody gives you a key, you're kind of hoping it's going to be something else, if you hear what I'm screaming. But it was not the kind of key that you hope to get when you go to Miami. You mean like a kilo? Right, that's right. I see what you're saying.

It's funnier when you explain it, I think. Well, it didn't work unless you did. I think there's a few listeners that got it. Maybe two that are cookedoked up right now. Yeah, keys, man. There's only two listeners coked up right now. I don't think that's true. There's more than two.

But they're the only ones that got that joke. What we were talking about before about what's wrong with this town, and this is probably the last time we should get into it because this is such a tired subject but the the idea that people who didn't get enough attention when they were young so they developed this hole in their soul they need to fill up with other people's attention they come here and then they they seek validation through auditioning which is one of the most ridiculous processes ever i mean the idea that you're going to be in line with a bunch of other people hoping to get picked and if you do get

Picked like yes. Yes. It's me I'm gonna be the one and then you're the one who's gonna get out there and then my cameras on you and they put makeup On you and they make you pretty and the perfect lighting and it's all these it's this weird thing and if you're lucky You can get through that with some sense of what you're trying to do in the first place which is like trying to create something cool that people enjoy and then some sense of humility where you kind of understand that that's in the greater spectrum of the universe it's really not that significant what it is is it gets a lot of attention because we're confused and media confuses people and the idea of the one the alpha with the light on them and the one who has the

Microphone and the one who has the voice and that this is somehow or another makes you special, but it doesn't it's just entertainment Well, there's two things I'd say about the first of which is that I'm gonna put it out there I don't talk about it that much But I'm gonna put it out there because I think step one in the program is admitting that you have a problem So I was a child actor in this town. In this town. So that's your problem with this town. I wish that there was.

Yeah, but it was very good to me. It was very good to me. I was very successful. And before I retired at 15 or whatever it was. But first of all, I wish there was a different term other than child actor, which immediately evokes images of liquor store robberies, drug overdoses, and child molestation. But that's what I was. The second thing I want to say, which I probably shouldn't talk about,

because you mentioned it when you were talking about the casting process and how completely toxic that is in terms of creating anything of substance. And it's not just, it's this development process. We optioned the rights to develop a dramatic series about cocaine cowboys about, I think, eight years ago now with Brookheimer Television, Michael Bay, and Warner Horizons. And we have been developing the show, developing, development, developing. You know when you say a word so much or you look at it so often it loses its meaning

and you kind of have to look like, what is it? This word means something? Development? So we're on a call, Wendell, and this is already years ago. It was years into development and years ago already. That's how long we've been developing this. We're on a conference call. You can't get a word in edge we're on a conference call. You can't get a word in edgewise, really, on a conference call. So I'm listening to this call, and I'm looking at the calendar, and it says,

JBTV Development Call, and I'm staring at the word, and it loses its meaning. So I kind of, you know, the voices turn into, you know, peanuts, you know, adults. Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. And I open a new tab in my browser, and I go to dictionary.com. I probably should have gone to urbandiction tab in my browser and i go to dictionary.com i probably should have gone to urban dictionary.com but i go to dictionary.com and i look up the word development and i realize looking at the definition that the development process in film and television and entertainment is the antithesis of the definition of the word development which infers progress evolution and it's the exact opposite of that it if it doesn't

stifle progress it it actually has a reverse effect it's like de-evolution it's like undevelopment or de-development i don't know what the term is but it's a total misnomer you know this this idea of developing because like we we want to make a documentary we get an idea or someone comes to us and or we have access to a cool person or a great story and we i got two partners it's me and two guys one guy i've known i've known so long our parents used to bathe us together i mean we were sophomores in high school that was weird but like uh no we were nursery school we were i know the guy literally since nursery school our other partner alfred spellman i know him from television production middle school so we look at each other we go does this sound like a cool idea yeah let's

do it that's our development in the non-fiction world this whole like scripted thing we're like you bring in three writers and you pay them untold amounts of money and they're from santa monica with nannies and they're gonna write for the miami drug scene in the late 70s you're like what is going on here? How is this progress? How are we developing anything here? And in terms of our warped values. And media manipulating. Our priorities.

Nothing breaks my heart more. Than when I tweet something. Important that's going on in the world. And it gets like. Two retweets or whatever. And then you tweet something about. Kim Kardashian or Justin Bieber. Kanye West. and it gets like two retweets or whatever and then you tweet something about kim kardashian or justin bieber or kanye west or bruce jenner god forbid and it just it gets it gets 1200 retweets or some crazy florida man story that gets 10 000 retweets and and it breaks my heart

because i'm just like i'm like i'm contributing to the distraction here is what I feel like. And but but it really frustrates me. It's like but something about, you know, the lack of accountability in politics or the public sector or, you know, the dramatic increase in police brutality and the prison population as the crime rate drops precipitously. All these things that we should kind of be concerned about as a people and i just realized i was like maybe i need to take my own advice and like the fact that we're all so insignificant and so small and this time is so fleeting why not just have a good time while we're here we're not actually going to change anything for the better it's like that saying what's it saying it's like uh i want to have less corruption or more participation in it or something like it's like that's how as i get older. I feel like well, what where am I getting here? Why not? You know, I I'm not actually going to effectuate any positive

change maybe a little maybe a little bit of awareness in my corner of the Twitter verse but What which don't I just need to do something for myself for my family or and I can't do that There's like something in there's a moral compass that just won't let me Kind of like compromise my values and in a weird way I hate that about myself just relax man seriously do you smoke weed no you should probably I would help you a lot that's the diagnosis yeah well you guys have medical marijuana here for fuck's sake for fuck's sake dude I fought my ass off for amendment 2 in Florida. We got nearly 58% of the vote, and it failed. Rick Scott, the least popular governor in the history of anything anywhere,

gets 47% of the vote in four more years to destroy the state of Florida. But you have too many old people. Too many old people in your state. It's a demographic thing. Their idea of what marijuana is is just completely fucked by propaganda. But now our elected officials, fortunately, are kind of realizing that, like, wait a second. If you look at the district results for Amendment 2, they're going, well, shit, my constituents want this. So now you do have some local politicians who are trying to, and state politicians, who are trying to introduce bills now that will bring medical marijuana to the state of Florida.

Because what they're trying to do is beat 2016, where not only is it a presidential election, so turnout in Florida could be as much as, I don't know, 12%. Why don't people vote? Why don't people vote? Well, they feel discouraged. They don't think it works. You look at the system itself. You look at special interest groups and lobbyists and the amount of money that corporations donate towards campaigns. But they do that to mobilize. Not just to impact how people are going to vote, but just to get people going out to vote.

One thing's for sure. If you don't vote, your vote's not going to be counted. I can guarantee. I can guarantee that. Right. So the special interest money really goes towards mobilizing people who are already in a way like-minded. Like you said, the elderly population, which is really what helped kill recreational marijuana here, or the expansion of marijuana laws in California. You weren't quite there yet.

People weren't, I think, getting out, not getting out the vote per se, but they weren't convincing the elderly population, who by the way, probably need marijuana even more than I do, just in terms of their, you know, their maladies. It probably would do more for them, and certainly in Florida, do more for them. But some of them are still on that, you know, that hippie drug thing. Yeah, that's what they think it is. Yeah, which is, which doesn't make any sense. Not to what could any governor or any politician or anybody in this country do in the single stroke of a pen that would create the kind of economy that that brings how do you create jobs with you know that many jobs and that kind of revenue in that marijuana

that marijuana that a marijuana there's nothing else I could possibly think of that you could do where you could say, like, overnight, we could just create an epic industry that not only hurts no one, but helps millions of people. And more importantly, decriminalizes a class of people

in this country that we have needlessly spent untold millions of dollars to deprive them of life, liberty, and property. And you're right, I need to smoke. You need to smoke a little bit. The amount of money that they're making in Colorado is so staggering they have to give it back to the taxpayers. Have you read that?

Yeah, the refunds. It's insane. They're giving people money back. We have too much money for education now. They are literally making untold millions of dollars in tax revenue that would be unavailable otherwise. And most likely the same amount of people are smoking weed, which just lets

you know that this is just really an inefficient use of public resources. It's an inefficient use of a commodity, which is a natural commodity that's a part of life. I mean, marijuana is a goddamn plant that's been used for thousands of years. In Florida, we had a pill mill crisis

of the likes that we have. I mean, an epidemic of death? Well, I had the folks on that did that documentary, the OxyContin Express. Oh, yeah. Amazing, amazing. I think it was up to seven people a day were dying in the state of Florida.

These are men, women, and children. It's not enough. You should kill more. You guys should have opened up more pill plants in response. in the state of Florida. These are men, women, and children. It's not enough. You should kill more. You guys should have opened up more pill plants. Too many people in Florida. Too many people. In the north, I'd prefer the north. You know, they say in Florida, the further north you go, the further south you are.

Yeah, I know. Because you forget that, like, Florida, I mean, this was like Jim Crow South in Florida. South Florida is like a tropical country. Yeah, well, it's like, the only way I can compare it to people who might get some perspective, it's like Atlanta in Georgia. Yes. You know, kind of South Florida is like, because we're still very much a red, we're like a red state with a blue foreskin that everybody wishes they could just circumcise like right

off the state. And in fact, the city of South Miami, it's an interesting thing about Miami-Dade, nobody even knows this. Miami-Dade County, which has about, I think, 2.6 million people now, we're made up of like 34 different municipalities. So there's a total of like 35 different mayors in just Miami-Dade County. Really? Yeah, and the city of Miami

is just one small city among the 34 in Miami-Dade County. And in fact, Dade County, get this, it used to be called Dade County or Metro Dade County. In 97, we rebranded, we voted to change the name of the town like we're all southern than like Bombay and Mumbai like you think of a place that like changes the name we rebranded it to Miami Dade County to borrow essentially the most famous

brand that we have which is the most famous city in in the area and so one of these cities these 34 municipalities we have 34 34 municipalities and I, to be fair, there's still 30 of them who haven't had their mayor arrested yet in the last two years. So that's a pretty good ratio. But the city of South Miami, actually, they had like a resolution to essentially secede, not secede from the union, but split Florida down the middle into two separate states. A North Florida and a South Florida. Which is a great, great idea. For real? It's a great, it'll never happen,

because South Florida's revenue is what finances Tallahassee, which is the state capital, which is in the panhandle in Northern Florida. So that'll never happen, because they live off the fat of our land and our tourism trade. So that'll never happen. But it's a great idea when you look at the politics, when you look at the demographics and how sort of the way that people, the thought process, we are very much two different states. So South Florida is more democratic. It's more liberal.

Yeah, that's the blue tip. But there's a lot of Cubans that are very Republican, right? They were. A lot of conservative. They were. Ever since Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs, they took a hard right. I mean, there are Cubans who have not voted Democrat since Kennedy. Wow.

But you're seeing now a new generation, third and fourth generation Cubans who are now being actually born in Miami. You see this trend changing. Miami used to go to Miami and you say, really anywhere in Florida, say, where are you from? And even if people were there for 60 years, they'd go Cuba, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York. No one was from Miami. That's changing now. You see a little bit of this 305 till I die.

This kind of like, you know, the spirit of like the spirit of like ownership of belonging, which I keep hoping is going to manifest itself in people driving better and using their turn signals and being nicer to each other. I keep trying to say, it's not my Emmy or your Emmy. It's our Emmy. This is a collective experience here, people. We're in this together. Let's just be nicer to each other. But it's not working.

You're a Miami fanboy. I am. I'm a homeboy. And I get homesick when I travel, too. Like, I miss it, especially when I go. L.A.'s different because it's not homogenized. But when I travel around to places where, like, I'm like, I'm nervous. There's too many white people here.

Like, I need some arroz con pollo. I need some cate con leche. Like, I get nervous when there's not, you know, when there's, like, a homogenized population. I don't like that. Why is that? I like to mix it up. I don't know. Miami.

Because Miami, like, you just just, I mean you can drive a stretch of blocks in Miami Beach and you go from the Argentinian neighborhood to the Venezuelan neighborhood to the Brazilian neighborhood. I should say this, there's a common misconception that Miami is a melting pot. We are not a melting pot. We are more akin to like a TV dinner where sometimes

the peas fall over into the mashed potatoes because we self-segregate. We do that anywhere we go as people. You know, we find like-minded or Chinatown. Yeah, similar looking people and we stick to our own. So in Miami, you know, you have the Jewish neighborhood. You have a Haitian neighborhood. You have an African-American neighborhood. You have a Cuban neighborhood, a Cuban neighborhood, a Cuban neighborhood, a Cuban neighborhood.

You have then like I was saying in Miami, even, you have Venezuela, a Brazilian neighborhood. Even the South Americans, the thing they hate the most is being called Latin or Hispanic. They're very prideful and nationalistic people. They want to be associated with their nation. You can't get into an argument with anybody in Miami until you see what flag is hanging from the rearview mirror. Because, God forbid, dude, you should call an Argentinian a venezuelan a venezuelan a cuban a cuban a brazilian they get fewer or any of them a mexican they all hate mexicans for like for some reason and yeah and then why why do they hate i don't know but they and all of them if you ask

any of them they'll tell you oh my great bro like like for truth bro like seriously like my great great grandfather is from spain they all claim they're european none of them are caribbean they're all european it's it's kind of fun and and i like that that kind of incendiary mix of people you know and like 1980 was like which is kind of the inspiration cooking cowboys was like that year were like all of the chemicals just mixed together and shit just exploded and that's, there's that tension in Miami constantly that I think is just, it just makes it an exciting place,

particularly when anybody outside of Miami, they think there's only like one hotel, the Colony on Ocean Drive. Because wherever you are in Miami, all you know is that like 15 blocks of Ocean Drive, you know, and even when you watch Miami Dolphins games or like the Orange Bowl game, which is at Joe Robbie Stadium,

right now Sun Life Stadium in Miami Gardens, one of the most dangerous municipalities in Miami, one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the world is Miami Gardens. That's where the stadium is located. They'll crossfade from the game to the blimp aerial of the stadium, and then they'll crossfade to Ocean Drive, as if that's right outside. It's 18 miles away from the stadium. But that's what people associate with Miami. Most of Miami is third worldian. I mean, Miami-Dade County has, I think, only the second greatest disparity in income gap of any major county in the country.

We are, you know, T.D. Allman had a book called City of the Future about Miami. You know, they say that like the Florida of today is the America of tomorrow. And if you want to know what shit is going to go down in America, what calamities are going to befall this country in like the next 20 years or so, you look at what's going on in Miami or Florida. That is the barometer of whether it's the drug trade, immigration, what we're dealing with now with the browning of America, if you will, the Hispanicizing of America, and the pushback. We've been through all of that shit. Medicare fraud, you name it, we have experienced it already in Miami or in the greater Florida area. And we know what's coming, basically.

You sure? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got everything but earthquakes and mudslides. How did you get involved with this documentary, Cocaine Cowboys? What was the inspiration to make this? Just knowing the history of how crazy Miami was and what led to this just massive surge of drugs

into that part of the country? Well, it was our childhood in a weird way? I mean, we grew up in Miami. I was born in a place called Fort Myers, Florida, on the West Coast. So you lived out here when you were a kid? Only for a couple years, you know, for like five pilot seasons or whatever the hell you do. Did your parents bring you out here to do that? Yeah, I asked them to.

Whoa. Yeah, I asked them to. Wow, so it wasn't even that you had stage parents. It was all you. Oh, dude, every year my parents would say to me Whenever you're done Yeah they would say whenever you're done That's just like that

That was dead ringer for oddly for my dad He's transitioning now That was weird Transitioning You can say that a few years ago No no what the fuck you're talking about You say he's transitioning now Is there this overwhelming influx of transgender people You can say that a few years ago. No, no, what the fuck you're talking about? But you say he's transitioning now.

It's like, is there this overwhelming influx of transgender people in our culture? Is that what's going on? Or we're just more aware of it. I guess. You are. And it's kind of okay. I mean, gay people got married in Alabama this week. It's a new world, man.

The internet. It's kind of fantastic. When I was traveling, we were on set of this pilot uh in in in puerto rico and while i was on the plane um there was no internet on on this flight because we're coming from puerto rico for whatever reason and so as soon as i landed uh obama had announced the new cuba policy and i landed in miami while this was going on in the air and um no one really knew exactly how miami was going to react the truth is a lot of the hardline older conservative cubans have died off the demographic is changing there there are cuban kids growing up now who don't want to never get to see cuba before they die like a lot of their grandparents never got to and great-grandparents never got to go back so

the sentiment was very different from whatever like from circa ellian gonzalez that was like the last gasp of you know eggs right wing exile uh uh politics was really the ellian gonzalez that was like the last gasp of you know eggs right wing exile uh uh politics was really the ellian gonzalez uh fiasco and so this this was a little bit calmer but like i landed i was like i just landed in a whole new world like it was an incredible and and whether you agree with policies or not it's kind of cool to see when you're hyper aware that like history is happening in your lifetime and before your eyes and that's what miami was like in the 1980s and growing up we were even aware of it what i was most aware of it as a kid was the money we worked we lived in this like working class jewish neighborhood in north miami beach and everybody was doing good they weren't in the

drug business per se but this is the, is the most successful case study in history for Ronald Reagan's trickle-down economics theory. Because there was so much cash in Miami, and it trickled down to everyone. Whatever business you were in, you were making more cash. Because of the drug trade. Because of the drug trade. There was so much cash. Tourism, by 1980, tourism and real estate, they were like our top businesses. Tourism was bringing in about $5 real estate, they were like our top businesses. Tourism was

bringing in about $5.2 billion a year in Miami. Drugs, they were estimating, was generating $7 billion a year. So it was an even bigger business than tourism in the early 1980s. So you just had, it was just everywhere. Like in our neighborhood, people added like, made additions to their houses. They had like a Porsche or a nicer car. And these are people who were jewelers or in the grocery business or car dealers or just working people. But suddenly everybody was a little flush. And they weren't upgrading in a major way. They were just getting themselves some toys that they could get with the fruits of their labor and this newfound revenue generation.

Influx of cash. Yeah, and you've heard the stats from the movie about the branch of the Federal Reserve in Miami had a cash surplus of more money than all the branches combined in the country. There was just more cash in Miami. Nobody had any place to put it. What you saw in Scarface, when banks were charging a vig to deposit cash. That was true. They had no place to put cash. There was just too much cash.

And it's true that if you took a $20 bill or denomination of 20 or above cash in Miami and tested it, there were traces of cocaine on almost every single bill in Miami. So it was literally drug money. That's amazing. It's an amazing time. And your documentary really captures it so brilliantly. It's just that when you highlighted that that one graduating class of the police academy, that every single guy either went to jail or was murdered, every single one. I mean, that's an amazing moment in human history, where you just get to see, essentially, it's a version of what's going on in Mexico right now.

Oh, absolutely. And it's actually a version, interestingly, of what's going on in the United States in terms of hiring practices and better screening people in law enforcement and people in the public sector in general because what happened there is that you didn't have good people who became cops and then the power went to their head and they became corrupt or anything like that you had you had gangsters straight up thugs who decided well where better to ply my trade than be hiding behind a badge that's what happened so these weren't like this way these were these were bad guys who who it became we had a um what happened was there was a federal judge there was a consent decree uh a federal judge it was a civil rights action a federal judge looked at the demographics the changing demographics of miami and said there's basically 100 of the miami police department was white and they said you need a police force that better represents

the community that they're policing and so it was a federal judge who just waved you know waved his his magic pen and said hire more black officers hire far far more hispanic officers so you have a police force that reflects the community. And what happened, I hate to say it, but it's true, they kept reducing the standards for hiring. And that's what happened, is that they wound up with guys who were like, wait, I'm on the streets, I'm a straight-up gangster, but the Miami police are hiring. Like, that's what happened.

So really, the system worked in a way in that they weeded out, you know, the worst of them. And that's, I think it's a little bit opposite. I think, by and large, you have a lot of good cops now, but the problem is that they're not screening, they're not sufficiently screening in the hiring process to say. Still? Oh, I think so, all over the country. I think you've got guys who are sort of naturally aggressive.

You have a steroid epidemic in the police departments that the unions have completely precluded municipalities from being able to test officers. I think you have, again, an epidemic that affects a certain minority or percentage of officers and departments, but it's still an issue that you don't want guys like that with the ability to deprive people of life, liberty, and property. Yeah, the steroid thing is absolutely legit. I got pulled over by a dude who looked like Ronnie Coleman, who, by the way, was a police officer. Ronnie Coleman, who was Mr. Olympia, was a police officer.

Wow. I did not know that. I don't know if he still is, but yeah, I mean, he was a longtime police officer, but this guy that pulled me over, it was ridiculous. And we had a nice little chat. You know, he's a nice guy. He's a fan? Yeah, he was a good guy.

But I mean, this dude was juiced. He was, I mean, 5'9", 270, somewhere around then, which doesn't happen in nature unless you're a fucking gorilla. You know, it which doesn't happen in nature unless you're a fucking gorilla. It just doesn't happen. You would have to, to get that big naturally, you couldn't have a job. You would have to be eating 30,000 calories a day. And at the gym. And you would have to be lifting weights literally all day.

And you could probably maintain that amount of mass for a couple years and then everything would break. I mean, it doesn't happen in nature. And I looked at this dude, I'm like, you are going to fucking, you're going to enforce laws? Hello, glass house. What kind of rocks? You better not bust people with drugs, motherfucker, because you're on

a ton of them. Steroids, call them drugs or hormones or whatever you want to call them. I mean, the idea and I've talked to guys in martial arts that say, you know, I have to be prepared because the people that I'm running into out on the street, you know, I'm running into like really bad guys and I want to be enhanced. Okay. What is it? I'm not that familiar with it, but like The research I understand it fucks with your mind You're almost definitely well, I mean

There's levels of course like everything else like you could smoke a little pot and be fine carry on a conversation Or you can get so stoned you you don't remember who you are I mean you could really get fucked up you can get so stoned you look at a phone you like what is this? You know you? Get pretty fucked up right, but or you could take a little puff and just kick back don't talk about like that He can tolerate more than any living human being Joey Diaz can eat he eats it mostly you know He'll have those pot edibles, but he'll he'll go so deep that you can't even believe he's still alive he just goes deep but my point being is that i i assume that some of these guys you

could take a small amount of steroids and probably it would help you recover and but the problem with those guys is they can never get off of it like jo Joey Diaz has a friend that's been on steroids since 1987. A-Rod? Oh, no, I'm sorry. It's a different guy. His friend from Jersey that's a bodybuilder that has never gotten off steroids. He's literally been on steroids since 1987.

Joey's age, he's like 51. He's fine. He's healthy. Really? He's fucking big as a house. He never stopped lifting. He never stopped doing steroids. But I mean, yeah, but he's fine he's healthy really he's fucking big as a house he never stopped lifting he never stopped doing steroids but i mean yeah but he's a maniac i think you could probably take a little bit and it would probably help you recover and you'd be all right but most definitely if you take a lot like this cop that pulled me over he had to be on all kinds of shit that's gonna fuck with your temper i mean you essentially become a different thing we were kind of discussing this yesterday because there's an epidemic

of steroids in the ufc i mean a true epidemic and not just the ufc but mma in general there's been some high level guys that have tested positive in other organizations and even guys that swore they never took anything and would mock other people who took performance enhancing drugs and they got popped um so there's there's a real issue that we're all as a the mixed martial arts community started coming to grips with now but as a police officer i think being calm and having a sense of of peacefulness of being able to diffuse situations. That was my thing about the Trayvon Martin thing. When everybody was talking about George Zimmerman, and the people that were supporting Zimmerman,

they were like, hey, George Zimmerman got attacked. I'm like, okay, here's the problem with that. George Zimmerman was a fucking moron, first of all, first and foremost. He wanted to be a cop. They wouldn't let him be a cop, which is fucking bad, which means you've got to be a fucking moron, first of all, first and foremost. He wanted to be a cop. They wouldn't let him be a cop, which is fucking bad, which means you've got to be a real moron, you know, because I've met some morons that are cops, you know. Most cops I meet are great folks, but we all know a few idiots that became cops.

This guy was too fucking stupid to be one of those idiots. You know, they were like, you're too dumb. You can't be a cop. So they give him this job as this community patrol guy right and second of all he let this kid this young kid was kicking his fucking ass this young kid got on top of him he's beating his head off the curb like okay how did that happen do you not know how to fight at all if you don't know how to fight at all how the fuck are you a cop here's the rub that no matter which version of the events you choose to believe, Trayvon stood his ground first, is actually what happened. So this stand your ground situation becomes like, who wins?

It becomes a stare down or this face off, it's a shootout. And it's like, who wins? Because what happened was, he was being followed by some creepy dude with a gun. He was being followed by some creepy dude with a gun. He was a kid coming back from 7-Eleven with Arizona iced tea and Skittles walking back to his dad's house. But the creepy guy with the gun was a security guard. No, he was a neighborhood watcher. But doesn't he have an outfit on? No, hell no.

He was a volunteer. He had a poncho on or whatever he had. It was raining. And that's why Trayvon had a hoodie on. It was raining. So he doesn't have anything that identifies him as a security officer? He was on the phone with 911

and they're telling him, stay in your car, sir. Stay in your car. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, and he gets out of the car and he's, and this kid was on the phone with the Trayvon,

was on the phone with this girl and he's like, there's some dude following me. He's in his car, he's getting out of his car. He's like, and she was worried for him. She's like,

as it turns out, he was a creepy dude with a gun who was stalking this kid who was walking back to his dad's house with an iced tea and Skittles. I actually wasn't aware that he didn't have an outfit, which is more ridiculous. He's like a volunteer neighborhood watchman guy. Nobody elected him or assigned him.

He took it upon himself because there was some robberies in the neighborhood. And he went and stalked and he got jumped because this kid was scared. So there's no organization whatsoever? Well, there's probably a community organization, but I don't know that there's any formal... He wasn't a member of any formal organization that I'm aware of. And I was tweeting about this and this to me was just objective. These were just objective facts to me. And what came into play was one of the most disturbing things.

I mean... Okay, I'm going to tell this story. It's going to piss off a lot of people. Tell it, Billy Corbin. Get down. So we have a fan page. We did this documentary for ESPN called The U about the University of Miami football program. We just did a sequel late last year.

And so we had this fan page that we put on Facebook, which has about 185,000 or so fans. on Facebook, which has about 185,000 or so fans, and it's one of the most largest and most interactive pages for Hurricanes football fans. So, every once in a while, I kind of troll the page. You do? I troll my

own page. Why do you do that? As a sociological experiment? I don't know. We'll just put, like, Warren Sapp got busted yeah couldn't have happened to a nicer guy it's the stupidest fucking law ever the stupidest stupidest law and to me it's just an example of sort of these arcane patriarchal like yeah women are like women can't decide what to do with their bodies we decide what they can do with their

bodies and and what contractual arrangements arrangements consenting adults can enter into. But porn's legal, which it should be. But then, so if there's a camera in the room, that changes the entire dynamic of this thing? Well, there was a girl that was hanging around the comedy store way back in the day that actually said that to one of my friends. She was a porn star, and she said, you know, he, somehow or another they got into this conversation, and she said, you can fuck me as long as you have a camera in the private shoot We do a private shoot, and he was like what?

It was like hold on he was like trying to figure it out So I'm lying for every time a woman told me that she had a fee you know she goes you pay my fee You put a camera in the room you can fuck me, and he's like says that prostitution She goes not legally and okay, and then we thought about like, yeah, I guess that isn't prostitution. Dude, the resources, the resources that police departments spend in these stings. On prostitution. To create crime that otherwise wouldn't exist. They make cops dress up like hookers.

Hookers. Yeah. Which, by the way, first of all is dangerous for them. Very. Right. And second of all, they're just creating crime that wouldn't otherwise exist unless this cop dressed as a hooker was standing on the corner. They've actually passed laws in certain states that make it legal for cops to have sex with prostitutes as part of the sting.

Which that seems fair. It's hilarious. That seems right. That's god damn hilarious. Why would anybody think that there's two legal systems here in this country? I want to make sure that none of these whores are out there sucking dicks, so I'm going to go get my dick sucked just to ensure she knows I'm legit. I'm pretty sure, by the way, a contract is offer acceptance and consideration. I don't know that you actually have to deliver on it in order to say the contract, you know, this is an illegal contract that you've entered into. You're under arrest. I can't imagine that that's necessary to go into court and say,

it's like, no, no, your honor. She's really a hooker. I paid her and we had sex. Like, is that really, is that really necessary? And how is that legal? Well, my friend got busted in a sting operation in New York. And he was flirting with these girls. And one of them said something like, you want to party or something like that? And he's like, party? Like, what does that mean? Like, what do you mean? Like, sex?

And she goes, yeah. And he goes, is it going to cost me anything? She goes, how much do you want to pay me? He goes, $10,000. Like, he's just joking around. And they give the takedown order. And they fucking arrested him. Crazy.

Like that. Crazy. I mean, he was a drunk guy coming out of a bar, flirting with some girls that he didn't know were cops. And they were manipulating the language in order to get him to say that. Like, he was just being a silly goose. He was just being a silly guy. He's a comic. So he's just trying to make these girls laugh.

Like, $10,000. Like, saying $10,000. Who the fuck is going to pay a he's a comic, so he's just trying to make these girls laugh. Like, $10,000! Like, saying $10,000, who the fuck is gonna pay a streetwalker $10,000? Who even comes up with that on their first offer? I mean, for $10,000, you can fuck a famous porn star for $10,000. First offer.

Yeah, I mean, it's mind-numbing. If it had been a counter-offer, it would have been more reasonable for $10,000? Yes. If he said, I mean, it's mind-numbing. If it had been a counteroffer, it would have been more reasonable for $10,000? If he said, you know, $500 and she said $1 million, and he's like, oh, hold on. When you consider these two women officers, you consider their backup, you consider the surveillance, you consider, then when you have to process a John. He was in jail for 24 hours. process John.

He was in jail for 24 hours. And the manpower involved in processing what other crime was going on that night? Like victim, victim full. Not victim less, but victim full. Victim full crime was occurring. Oh, I totally dodged

the trolling my own page bullet. Should I tell that story? We'll keep going with this. I never told this story publicly before. What page is this that you're talking about? It's facebook.com forward slash the you movie. Okay.

So once in a while, when I say troll the page, I mean, we're kind of like the New York Post of the you, of like UM football fan pages. We're like the tabloid. You know, we don't just post the press releases

that come out of the athletic department. We'll post whatever that's kind of like peripherally involved in miami football or pop culture surrounding miami football you know snoop throws up the you in a music video shit like that you know so on the day of the zimmerman verdict there was a picture that had been on the internet for some time from like trayayvon Martin's 11th birthday or something like that, where his parents or whomever got him a birthday cake with the U logo. He was apparently a Hurricanes fan. You know, he's a South Florida kid. And so it was him smiling 11 year old kid and his UM happy birthday cake.

Great. So I was just like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm not going to say a word. I'm going to post this picture to the Facebook page. And I can't tell you how all social media hell broke loose in that community. And I would venture to say that you could write papers on the state of america's race relations based solely on the comments from that from that image it was one of the most disturbing just exchanges about america and race and crime that i have just

ever seen in my life it was so disturbing and i just left it there and let the, you know, it was kind of like a Rorschach, and people were writing, like, private messages, like, I'm unfriending or unliking this page. Why don't you post a picture of, oh, first of all, that's not what he looked like when, you know, when he was killed. And they post, like, one of those fake pictures

of, like, some rapper that, like, people claimed was Trayvon and like like things that were debunked you know via scopes and otherwise like you know months or years earlier and just like the craziness that ensued and the and I'm like hey listen you find a picture of uh George Zimmerman in a U sweater or whatever I'll post that too I mean like what do you want this is it just, because I posted pictures of Barack Obama throwing up the U and then Mitt Romney was campaigning and he threw up the U. Didn't you, like? How do you throw up the U? Do you go like this?

Yeah, you just put, well, it's more like, yeah, it's like this. Yeah. I sort of put a break in it because there's, like, air in between. But, like, yeah, that's how you throw up the U. But, essentially, let me get to the point here. Essentially, it was white people who were being racist against Trayvon Martin and were upset that you were posting this image of him with this UK. No one was objectively looking at the facts of the situation. They saw a black kid in a hoodie and right away it was thug who got what was coming to him.

Right. And it didn't matter that he was a human being. It didn't matter that he was a he had smoked pot before. I can't can't believe he was a teenage kid i'm outraged it was a teenage pot's illegal in florida the kid never got into trouble for anything before in his life he he got he got he got in a little bit of trouble in school which teenage kids do he's from a broken home and his mom sent him to spend she said my son needs to spend time with his father i'm going to send him up to spend this was these were good people this was a good family. None of it mattered. It just mattered that he was black.

And there was people who just literally... I'm not suggesting that was everybody, but there were people who just could not get beyond that, which was just... It led me to this whole... I don't know if you remember the closing argument in A Time to Kill, Matthew McConaughey. Do you really think I watched that fucking movie?

No, I seriously doubt that. But it's like, it's this whole monologue where he gives you this fact pattern about this young girl being kidnapped and raped and abused and beaten within an inch of her life. And then he says, now imagine she's white. Meaning like, just take the same set of facts and put your kid there. You know? The only reason Zimmerman was following him in the first place and thought he was suspicious.

Switch the races. Or switch the races. Absolutely. Have Zimmerman be a black guy with a cop complex. You know? My point was initially when we started talking about this is that he's so socially unskilled that another guy who maybe was a good cop or another guy who was good with people would have seen this young kid walking and said, how you doing, brother? Everything good tonight? And like, yeah, man, what's up? You know, what are you doing? Just getting some Skittles. All right. Well, take care, man.

He wanted to be dirty fucking Harry. Yeah, go get dry. Alright, you too, man. And then we're good. How many of those exchanges between two human beings could vary radically depending on the social skills of the person that's quote-unquote in a position of power? And that's an issue with what we were talking about earlier with steroids

distorting people's aggression, distorting people's perception of danger or of their power over a situation or what's just and what's ethical. Law enforcement officers are allegedly trained to de-escalate. They should be. Too often we're seeing these stories, thanks to the internet, of situations where calling the police turns an otherwise benign situation potentially deadly. And that's a frightening thought. Because even if these are isolated incidents, the proliferation of them and our exposure to them now,

thanks to the Internet, is creating an environment where kids are actually feeling like, maybe I shouldn't call the police. Maybe that's not what I should do. And you shouldn't ever feel that way, you know? You shouldn't have that feeling but I I started to lose a lot of like when I say friends I mean you know social media friends and quotes uh friends and followers on twitter and I finally just like after the verdict I was like listen it's all good if you unfollow me for my Trayvon Zimmerman tweets if Zimmerman had unfollowed Trayvon, we wouldn't even be fucking talking about this.

Oh, damn. He dropped the bomb on him. Yeah, look, he was a dummy. He's a dummy who can't fight, who wanted to be a tough guy. And Florida. This fucking kid getting on top of him and beating his fucking ass,

and then he shoots him. You know, I just wish someone had taught Trayvon a little better, and he could have put that fucker to sleep before he ever got the gun out. You know, you just can't have a person that's so socially unskilled, which has obviously been proven now. Oh, yeah. His records, yeah, subsequent records.

Jesus fucking Christ. He pulled a gun out on someone in some sort of a car situation. He threw a wine bottle at his girlfriend. He drives like a maniac, apparently. He's a cunt. He's a cunt of a car situation. He threw a wine bottle at his girlfriend. He drives like a maniac, apparently. He's a cunt. He's a cunt of a human being. And he's going to kill somebody someday, Joe. Well, he's probably in jail for a long time now, right?

No, no, no. Isn't he? No. No, he got picked up on that domestic abuse rap with his ex-girlfriend. Yeah, he threw a wine bottle at her. She won't cooperate anymore. She's not pressing. He's out.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's out now. Well, you know what? I'm not a big fan of vigilante justice unless it's a guy like that. And then I'm like, you know, that's a dangerous time bomb. That was Joe that said that, by the way. I did say it.

I am not a fan of vigilante justice, but when cunts get free, sometimes people have to fucking... A retweet is not an endorsement. People have to fire up torches and fucking find where that cunt's sleeping. It's just, he's a bad person just he's a bad person he's a bad person that's already done bad things and you know i mean he's probably going to continue to do

not good maybe i mean and also he's he's become a hero of the ted nugent crowd you know the people that are standing up for the second amendment and he's you know what he did was he shot an un uh you know a unlawful thug. That's fucking retarded, man. And I'm a person who supports the right to bear arms. You have to remember, the kid did not commit any crimes. Even jumping. He was standing his ground.

This guy was stalking him with a gun. There's no set of facts. Even the way Zimmerman tells it, there's no set of facts or set of a version of the story that changes those facts. He was stalking a kid who was armed with an Arizona iced tea and Skittles, walking back to his dad's house, and he killed him. You know, he might have been on pot. On the pot. He was on the pot. I think the Michael Brown situation is far more confusing

because I wish I knew what really happened. I wish I knew. Everybody putting their arms up in the air and doing this hands up, don't shoot shit. situation is far more confusing because I wish I knew what really happened. I wish I knew everybody putting their arms up in the air and doing this hands up, don't shoot shit. I really wish that was proven that that actually did happen. Maybe perhaps a video. The way more disturbing story to me was the 12 year old who was shot with a toy gun. At a park. The cops just pull up. Yeah, the cops just pull up within two seconds, unload on him, all on video. All on video. No confusion whatsoever.

There's another situation where the lack of empathy to me in the Twitterverse is just like staggering because it's like, what was this kid doing with a toy gun? I'm like, I grew up at the park playing with cops and robbers and war. I mean, what are you talking about? Of course, he was in the park playing with a toy gun. You can't even address that. It's crazy. Those are fools, and they're looking for some reason where this kid was culpable.

They didn't even engage the kid. They drove up right on top of him. On video. Jumped out of the car and opened fire. See, what's more disturbing to me is the fact that you have a trend where you have a version of events perpetuated by the police which is usually always the first story you ever read is a press release or the statement from the police so it's never innocent until proven guilty it's like we're charging this guy or we arrested this guy i've had friends that were arrested for resisting arrest that didn't do

a goddamn you know what they call that that's called contempt of cop because there's never a basis to arrest them in the first place so if you're being arrested for resisting arrest what was the what was the original charge that you were being arrested for how can you just the vast majority of those cases are dismissed and guess what uh uh bratton the police commissioner nypd wants to escalate has gone to the legislature to uh to elevate contempt uh i was saying of cop, that's what they call that, contempt of cop. He wants to escalate or elevate the charge of resisting arrest from a misdemeanor to a felony. Now, again, most of those charges will wind up being dropped, as they usually do, because

they're completely bogus. It's contempt of cop. It's a situation where it's like, he didn't listen to me. Right. Which is, again, what we were talking about before, the difference between de-escalation, you can beat the rap, you can't beat the ride. Your boy was in jail for 24 friggin' hours. Might have had to hire an attorney, might have had

some people get their car impounded, depending on what town, in the prostitution stings, those are major revenue generators. Major revenue generators for the criminal justice system. All the way from law enforcement to tow yards to asset forfeiture to... Asset forfeiture, which is amazing, what people don't even know about.

Legal theft. They take your car. You could have a very nice car. Say you have a $50,000 car. That's the states now. They steal your fucking car. It's the police departments. It's a local...

They get the... They take the... And they get to keep it. It's not like they turn it over to anybody. If they want something, they could literally go out and take it. You don't even have to be convicted of a crime, just charged or accused. Right. And you might never see.

They could take cash from you. Yes. Cash. Why do you have that cash, sir? Were you doing something illegal with that cash? I think you might have been, so we're going to lock that cash up. You're guilty until proven innocent. And then we're going to use that cash to have fucking parties.

You know what I mean? They use those funds that they steal, they use it to have parties. To buy iPads and buy cars and boats and parties. Well, the DEA ran a similar scam in Los Angeles for a long time with arresting people that were running medical marijuana dispensaries.

There's video of this where these fucking kids are college kids. They're young kids. They're not doing anything wrong. They're working in a place where the state law says it's a legal business they break in guns strapped bulletproof vests ATF fucking outfits they put guns to people's head held this kid on the ground stepped on his fucking neck I mean his videos of all this zip tie them the whole deal then they take all their selling legal weed they take yes they take all their cash. They're selling legal weed. Yes. They take all their cash, all of it, take all their marijuana, all of it,

and they say, we are going to process your case. And then they do nothing. They do nothing. They never prosecute them. That's what we call armed robbery. Or that's what we used to call. It is. But they take that money, and then because these guys don't want to go after that money to try to get it back, because then the DEA comes at them even harder, they lose that money. And they have to pay to fight to get that money back. Probably as much in legal fees as was stolen in the first place.

It becomes a bean count to operate, yeah. Yeah, and it's not like you could sue the DEA to get your legal fees paid. They're not going to pay it. It's the same problem with the DEA, and they also don't care, even if they have to pay legal fees. Individual officers are never held liable. It's not their money. It's all same problem with the, and they also don't care even if they have to pay legal fees. Individual officers are never held liable. It's not their money. It's all our money anyway that gets paid when there are wrongful death suits or there's brutality suits.

They don't care. They're never punished. The unions completely insulate and protect them. And it's not their money. Worst case scenario, they get to retire early with a full pension. It has to be an unbelievably offensive violation of the law for the cops to be prosecuted. I mean, it has to be really outrageous where the state steps in and says, we've got to do something here or we're going to face a riot. The riots they have in Ferguson.

The riots they're having all throughout the country about Eric Gardner. You know, I mean, I don't think anybody I really believe this. And this is from a lifelong of experience with police officers. I don't think anybody's qualified for that job for a long period of time. I think being a cop is something you can only do for a very short amount of time, just like being a soldier. You know, that one soldier that went fucking crazy in Iraq and wound up gunning down all those innocent people? And they pulled this guy aside and like, well, this guy had been flagged for PTSD many times. And he was saying himself, like, I got to get out of here. And they sent him back over

there again. And he just went fucking crazy. I think that the mind can only withstand so much stress and being a cop is a fucking Insanely stressful job and they see horrible things. This is why I don't I'm not a big fan of these blanket statements Like you know I have friends like fuck the police and fuck I'm like no stop saying that man because some shit goes down you're gonna want to call the fucking police It's not fuck the police just like when a black person robs somebody, it's not fuck black people. Absolutely. It's not, man. These are rash generalizations, and they're based on this premise that anybody could actually do that job correctly, which I think is wrong.

Herein lies the problem. The public sector, as far as I'm concerned, should be held to a higher standard of accountability, not a lower or no accountability. I agree with you. not a lower or no accountability. I agree with you. And if you are going to have the power and the authority to deprive people of life, liberty, and property, you need to be held to a higher standard. And the lack of accountability that police officers see happen all over the country

feeds this mental idea that you might very well be right. That might be a mental deficiency. It might be a form of PTSD that you might actually believe that you're above the law, that the laws don't apply to you. Because as you said, only in the most extreme and extraordinary cases are police officers ever prosecuted. And I don't think there needs to be a, or there should be any kind of referendum or any kind of like, I don't know, an idea that there's a certain number of police officers that need to be, of course, when someone commits a crime, I don't care if they're black, white or blue.

OK, you know, you need there. No, it doesn't need to be a quota. There just needs to be justice equally applied. And that's the you know, Miami in the 1980s, people, I mean, you think if I was here for the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles. And so when I think of race riots, you think of Detroit or Watts or Rodney King, but Miami was the

race riot capital of America in the 1980s. We had no less than three incidents, all involving police officers, mostly white and Hispanic police officers, shooting and killing or, in the case of the first one, beating to death unarmed black men.

And they all resulted in horrific race riots. Some neighborhoods in Miami have never fully recovered from the 1980 riots. You still see empty, undeveloped entire city blocks that were burned down during those 1980 riots that people have not come back and reinvested in those African-American communities. And we had that in 1980, 83, and 89, when the eyes of the world were on Miami for the Super Bowl, it was supposed to be, oh, we get all this good publicity,

we're having this world-class event. The city was burning because of an officer who had, he had first been convicted if I'm not mistaken and then it was overturned on appeal and he went free and we rioted what did you think about what happened in New York where those cops got killed and then they sent out this order I don't know what how it was how it was dictated but the the idea was they weren't going to arrest anybody. The stand down order, yeah. For anything that wasn't necessary.

But my take on it was, that should be how cops always are. It's fantastic. You should always only arrest people for something that's absolutely necessary. Serious, of course. So what the fuck is this? You, for a short period of time, went back to actually being someone who withholds the peace or enforces the peace or keeps the peace. And then from there, they went back to being revenue collectors because that's what the

fuck is really going on. Policing for profit. When that kid, Eric Garner, that gentleman, which kid, he's older, that guy got dragged to the ground and choked, didn't have any loose cigarettes on him, wasn't selling anything. And people are like, oh, that guy had 30 different prior arrests, and oh, he resisted arrest. That's not resisting arrest. When you take a fucking innocent person and you violate their rights and you grab them around the neck and throw them to the ground, that should have never happened in the first

place, and the only reason it happened, because of taxes. That's it. That guy should have never been arrested. Never. You have to remember, he's never been accused of a capital crime. He wasn't committing a capital crime. And even if he were, which is to say that he was facing the death penalty for whatever he was being accused of, that's not how we carry out justice in this country.

You don't get choked to death on the street like an animal. That's not how we roll. No, it's nonsense. But when you look at that, they even tried to claim it wasn't a choke. Right. Which I had to step in. Bit of a technicality. Yeah, well, technically, that's what I do for a living.

So I'm like, that's a fucking choke. Let me do it to you. Let me tell you if you can breathe real good. That's ridiculous. You're grabbing your forearm around that guy's neck and squeezing. That's a fucking choke. Well, I think you're right. I think it exposed policing for profit.

Yeah, but that's the real issue. New York City wasn't suddenly a lawless fucking Bain running Gotham City. I mean, nothing happened. What happened was that innocent people stopped getting harassed for no reason on the street over penny

anti-revenue generating ordinances. And in that sense, it's not even the fault of the cops. The cops are being forced into these situations where they become revenue collectors. Like these cops are being forced to go back and start policing as usual because they have fucking quotas. And people that say, oh, quotas are bullshit. You know, you're doing, you're doing.

No, you have to research it. The quotas are fucking real. you're doing no you have to research it the quotas are fucking real they're 100 real we've they uh an organization a great local blog uh crespo gram in in miami who does a lot he's like obsessed we have this chapter 119 these public record laws we call them sunshine laws where everything's in the sunshine um doesn't quite always work that way in florida but uh sunny place for shady people and all that but he he just he just does public record requests non-stop and so people start leaking stuff to him before he even requests it and he got an email that this uh this like uh this like third shift this overnight shift in

little haiti neighborhood that the city of miami police's arrest quota they actually had from from like the shift sergeant sent out an email with quotas that included arrest quotas, meaning that each officer had to arrest, effectuate an arrest for what he didn't specify, but they had a minimum number of arrests they had to perform during a shift. That is insane. What if you don't encounter anyone committing a crime? Well, that's what I've always said.

What would happen in this country if the entire country, if all 350 million people agreed, okay, even you fucking hardcore criminals, no one's going to do anything wrong for a month. Just one month. The system would shut down. Yeah, the opposite of the purge. For one month, no one's going to speed,

no one's going to steal, no one's going to do anything wrong. Just everyone abide by the law. That's not outside the realm of possibility. These departments would freak the fuck out. They wouldn't know what to do. They would have no revenue coming in. I think about what Hitchens, rest in peace, always used to say about the necessity of religion to keep us from becoming savages. We know right from wrong.

We have internal moral compass. I said earlier, I'm like, God, I wish I could be corrupt, you know, like I, so I can make more money and, you know, and, and take care of my family better. But like, but I can't do it. I think, you know, every time I kind of like try to lay off, I was, you know, I'm just like, what's right or wrong. I get right back on Twitter and I'm like, this shit's wrong and people need to know about it. And like, it's the same thing there. It's like, without the Ten Commandments, would we just start raping and robbing and murdering? And I don't think we would do that. I think we all have, it goes back to this sense of self-worth. I think we all have, by and large, this sense of self-worth and preservation, which might very well be off the charts.

But I think actually creates, makes us a little bit more civilized. Because it's like, well, I have too much to lose. Maybe, you know, I'm not going to just rape, rob and murder. I think you're right. I think that's a bad way of addressing it in the first place like this. I have too much to lose to do that. No, you don't want to hurt people. It feels bad.

Whatever it takes. It feels bad to insult people. One of the issues that we have with the Internet is that, you know, you have a real issue with people stalking, harassing, being trolling people, being vicious to people. Strangers too, like people they don't even know. Because there's no social consequences. There's no, you don't, you don't feel it. If you're looking at a person and you take a person and you show them a picture of them with 15 dicks in their mouth, which by the way, I'm not really talking about that because that's usually pretty funny. There's a lot of pictures of me with dicks in my mouth.

I've never once tried to take them off the internet. I think they're hilarious. It doesn't bother me. But for some people, it's genuinely upsetting, especially women that find pictures of them attached to... Dude, believe me. Go to my fucking message board.

There's a swarm of them. I don't have a problem with it. Is it a swarm of dicks? Is it a gaggle out of you? It's a... A flock. I don't have a problem with it. Is it a swarm of dicks? Is it a gaggle out of you? It's a... A flock of dicks? Like a cauldron. I don't know.

I just think... Look, there's the golden rule of the internet. If there's a photo of you on the internet, somewhere, someone has photoshopped a dick in your mouth. I mean, it's just... If they haven't, it's just... I'm gonna Google me now. ...that people don't know about that photo yet.

I guarantee you, by the end of this podcast, there will be pictures of you in some sort of a compromising position. What's funny is that if I didn't have one, I'd actually be offended. I'd feel worse about myself. I'd be like, no one's bothered to even Photoshop a dick in my mouth. If you reach a certain amount of photographs of you on the internet, it's ultimately inevitable. If you're a public person, if you are a comedian,

it's inevitable. Oh, inevitable. Someone's going to put a dick in your mouth. I think it's know that that's more fun than anything but I think that shit you're talking yeah hateful shit like I mean I've seen some really fucking evil harassment that some people had to suffer for whatever reason it seems to be more women than anything because with women they could use the rape thing like if a guy tells me he's gonna rape

me I'm like well good luck with that that's not gonna happen unless you roof you mean you're not raping me dude you know no cause I mean you'd have to yeah this this this thing that we can do because of this this ability to interact with people with no social consequences it's a real issue Twitter gangsters Yeah, I call them sad lonely Twitter trolls Facebook is a little bit better because with Facebook you can click on the person's profile You see oh this learn a little something Mike Jones from you know, blah blah blah Street, you know This is some fucking egg. Yeah with some exactly stupid handle and yeah Yeah, I mean that does become a real issue with social interaction, but I think it's a temporary hiccup.

I really do. I think that we're in a stage, almost an adolescent stage of interactivity, where what we're experiencing now is just a weird bridge between total connectivity. The complete absence of any form of privacy is on the way. I mean, it might be 100 years from now. It might be 30. It might be in our lifetime. It may be a couple months from now. Somebody might come up with something,

and they'll say, look, this one thing that we're going to implement is going to be unbelievable as far as exchanging information, as far as our knowledge base. The actual IQ of human beings is going to double within weeks We're going to change the world, but no more privacy. I mean, it's like we're like the learning curve Yes, it's going to happen. We are essentially we're driving around in Model A's but one day someone's going to invent a fucking 911 GT3 and

You know if you went back and took time when Henry Ford's driving around a stupid fucking shitty car, you know And you pulled up beside him in a Mustang Shelby GT 500 and go check this shit out I'm from the future What the fuck is that I'm still waiting on the hoverboard. I did but if you have aboard. Yeah, but the hoverboard is just, you're just floating. What's the big deal? It's just not touching anything. Whoa, it's so crazy. We have jets that go faster than the speed of sound.

I mean, the hoverboard's dog shit. Oh, it can float. So can a plane, stupid. I just think of how much the world has changed. We're working on a doc about 9-11 right now, and it's been like 14 years but you know it's it which is incredible because it seems like such a modern history which it is of course a modern historical event but it seems like just yesterday and when you consider how

much the world has changed particularly tech technologically there was no twitter there's no instagram there was no you know there was the uh there was barely youtube at that point you know uh so i think youtube actually no there was no youtube was like point, you know? So I think YouTube actually, no, there was no YouTube. It was like 2003 or 2004. Right. Like, there was like Napster in 99, but that was like, you just think of how far we've come. I think you're right.

This is just the infancy of this era. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like, what you're talking about on your website, where all these people are getting upset and, you know, the Trayvon Martin thing and people are interacting as racism and all this all that stuff I think is a byproduct of this the the monkey DNA that we still carry around in our bodies and I think we're on our way to transcending that in some very

strange way where it's not gonna matter what part of the world you're from it's not gonna matter it's all that one of the things we've seen with these people getting married in Alabama, the way the world is changing, that I believe is 100% because of the Internet. I believe that wholeheartedly. And that's one of the things that encourages me. And I feel like this trend, like today like no one could try to bring back slavery today but in 1870 1865 1860 these were real arguments these are real arguments where people are saying we should be able to keep slaves that's a fucking blink of an eye man that is not that long ago

you're talking about 150 years that ain't shit that's not shit historically. I mean, that's so, so recent and more so now than ever before, more so within the last few years than ever before. And you know, you've seen ridiculous things like the social justice warriors, these really weird white people that are trying so hard to get black people to love them, that they just go out of their way to just be outrageously progressive to the point where they're actually prejudiced against other white people. They go so far left, they become right. I've seen some ridiculous shit

where I saw this one guy who was quoting about Osama bin Laden saying that I will never celebrate someone's death even if they were a horrible person. saying that I will never celebrate someone's death, you know, even if they were a horrible person, you know. And then the same guy quoted about Christopher Hitchens, you know, good riddance. He was a misogynist and a warmonger.

Like, okay, fuckhead. Like, you can't have it both ways. But what he is is the uber version of the social justice warrior, the unfuckable white dude trying so hard to get women and black people to love him because he just is completely insubstantial in any real form in our and the the normal context of our culture I find them you know the thinking about race so much is kind of racist so like the more kind of progressive you get about these issues the more you're thinking about sensitivity. I think that's an overcorrection, to say the least.

Like Black Annie. Black Annie. They're doing Black Uncle Buck. Did you know that? I just wanted to bang my head. You don't have to do that! That trend, what was that, like the late 90s, early zeros, when hip-hop was peaking, there was the black honeymooners,

there was the black airplane, with Soul Plane. Yeah, Soul Plane. So that trend is coming back around again. We have to do the black version of all of these pop culture touchdowns. They don't, though. It's demeaning. It's demeaning to black people to do that. And first of all, Soul Plane, I know the guy who created it, white guy.

Not only that, opportunist, kind of a cunt. What's going on is people are taking advantage of this opportunity to capitalize on a market. Culture vultures. Culture vultures is a great way of looking at it. Early last year, we did a mini-series for VH1's Rock Docs series. I think it might have been one of their last Rock Docs ever, called The Tanning of America, One Nation Under Hip Hop. Tanning?

The Tanning of America, One Nation Under Hip Hop. As long as there's no blackface involved. And it was a book called The Tanning of America, written by a guy named Steve Stout, who was a major duty guy in the record business and is now a bigwig in the marketing and advertising world. And his thesis was that hip hop culture led to the election of the first black president. of americans that grew up immersed with the music the fashion how it infiltrated uh the wall street madison avenue and the consumer goods uh sector and like and we just grew up immersed in this culture uh it tanned the mental complexion of americans and made it okay or even cool to vote

for the first black president and so we had four hours to kind of prove this this thesis and we go to sundance last year um i think it was actually the venue was called the black house um and it was an event that sort of celebrated the the african-american uh cinema and culture that was going on at sundance and so we're going to do like this panel discussion because the movie wasn't done yet and we're going there and someone had said to me for the first time we've been working on this project for almost two years or a year and a half and someone said to me for the first time like particularly i guess they were concerned about that environment uh the black the black house which turned out to be a fantastic experience but they said well what if somebody says like well why

are you guys doing it? You know, you two, like, white Jewish dudes from Miami. Why are you guys doing this documentary? And the thought had never crossed my mind. Like, I didn't even think about that. Like, why would I think about it? It's a fascinating subject. Great story, great idea, great concept, a challenge to kind of prove that. Which is what you do.

That's what you cover historically. And I never thought and then I sort of, and then I started thinking about it and I'm like, well, why am I even thinking about this? And someone put it and got in my head with it. White privilege. Yeah. You have white privilege. And then I started getting white guilt about it. White guilt?

Yeah, white male privilege. You should. You should have white guilt. And then I started feeling like, well, wait is it white male privilege that I never thought about this before? Of course it is. I was like, oh shit. You should have white guilt. And then I started feeling like, well, wait, is it white male privilege that I never thought about this before? Of course it is. I was like, oh shit. Of course it is. Shame.

I know. Shame on you. A pox. I was really in my head about this. A pox upon you. And then I'm like, and what if somebody else brings it up like publicly or asks me about it or what the hell am I going to say or what am I going to do? Kill them with rocks.

And I thought about it. I thought about it for literally that entire thing happened in like a millisecond. And then I'm like, well, first of all, we are that generation. I thought about my childhood. In Living Color was my SNL. Arsenio was my Johnny Carson. I grew up a white Jewish kid. I watched 227.

I watched The Cosby Show, A Different World, Amen. Do you remember the show Amen? What the fuck am I watching Amen for? What was Amen? Amen, it took place at a black church with, what's his name, George Jefferson. It was like, it was a great show,

but what the hell am I watching it for? But I loved it. I didn't think about it. How about Sanford and Sons? One of the greatest fucking shows ever. Good times. Norman Lear, a little white Jewish guy like me, was responsible for the first all-black sitcoms on television. Sanford and Sons, The Jeffersons, Good Times, All in the Family, which really brought the discussion of race to mainstream television in the way stand-up comics were doing it, obviously, well before that. But said, we're going to go on network television and have serious conversations about politics and race and poverty in this country. White Jewish guy.

And then you look at Russell Simmons, teams up with Rick Rubin, a white Jewish guy at NYU. You look at all these sort of relationships that helped. We interviewed Brett Ratner, white Jewish kid from Miami Beach who loved hip-hop. Because hip-hop wasn't just urban music. It was youth culture music. And that's why I captured the generation of

kids who didn't want to listen to what their parents were listening to. And it wasn't rock and roll anymore. It became hip-hop or rap music at the time. And the second thing was Steve Stout, to his credit, when we walked in the room to meet with him, he didn't know we were white. He knew we did cocaine cowboys. He knew we did the you. He knew the work and he respected and liked the work. So he's like, oh, I want to work with those guys who did this shit that I like and respect. It wasn't like, oh, wait, they're white. So to his credit, he never thought about it either. So it's like, why should I start thinking

about it? I'm dealing with the same thing right now with dogfight. That's what I'm dealing with. Explain dogfight to these folks. Explain your new project. Well, first I gotta spell it. It's D-A-W-G. It's not Michael Vick. Yeah, it's dogfight. Yeah, it's not like pitbulls. Yeah, it's dogfight. Well, it's not like pit bulls. Yeah, it's dogfight. Well, the underground culture in Miami, there's been like a street fighting culture. Yeah, well, this was the subculture that, well, I'd say Kimbo Slice was kind of responsible for it in a way. Sure, yeah.

Because he became the role model for a new generation of young people in Miami to literally try to fight their way to a better life. And there's this neighborhood, which is right, right where Kimbo came from and would fight in the backyards called West Brine. So this is 22 miles southwest of South Beach. So when you think Miami, you most people default, like I said, but you know, the ocean drive, this is 22 miles southwest of that. This isn't an area that I call a suburban ghetto. And I say that because when you think of ghetto or an urban neighborhood, you think of vertical. You know, people stacked in projects, you know, on top of each other, next to each other. But Perrine has these very modest houses on a pretty reasonably sized lot. So you have a little house and you have a nice size yard.

pretty reasonably sized lot so you have a little house and you have a a nice size yard and so dada 5000 dafier harris he's this guy who actually there's a video of him a youtube video that we use in the movie of him benching in his mom's yard there in prime 650 pounds he benches um and he's benching but he's bench pressing and team kimbo comes rolling by and sees this guy this beast and is like i'm going to fight Ray Mercer in Atlantic City. Why don't you roll with us? So for a year, Dada is on the fucking jet, you know, going around the world with Team Kimbo. Well, Kimbo was very slick in that fight with Ray Mercer. He was very smart.

Caught him in a fucking guillotine. He's like, listen, bitch, I learned some new shit. I ain't standing up with you. Olympic gold medalist, world heavyweight boxing champion. Fuck you. I'm going to fucking choke your neck. And Kimbo, like when he did that, like Ray Mercer was pissed off. You saw the Ray Mercer fight with Tim Sylvia.

Did you see that fight? No, I didn't. God damn. Ray Mercer hit Tim Sylvia with a punch that probably took a year and a half off his life. I mean, one punch. He KO'd him. That's terrible. He KO'd him so viciously with this one punch.

I mean, it was one within the first 15, 20 seconds of the fight. Just hit him flush on the chin and knocked him dead. So you're seeing that in a legal sanctioned environment where the fighters had checkups. They were weighed in. There's a doctor, an ambulance. A lot of these are like on Indian reservations and stuff. Yeah, that's true. Well, imagine it in a fucking backyard.

Oh, dude, I've seen them all. I've seen Alex Caceres, who fights for the UFC right now. He got his start doing that shit. So did Jorge Masvidal, who's a high-level fighter in the UFC. Masvidal fought a lot of those fights. Well, that's like, to me, like the those fights. That's, to me, the origin story. That's the goal for these guys. You have a neighborhood that is over

a third black. The vast majority of the community is below the poverty level. Unemployment is a third higher than the national average. You basically have a community with very little hope and very little opportunity. You've criminalized a vast majority of the male population,

so they can't get work, and they think that their best hope is to fight in these illegal, unsanctioned, bare-knuckle backyard brawls, upload the footage to YouTube, and hopefully get discovered by a professional MMA promoter or trainer, and try to go pro. Well, look at Kimbo. Kimbo Slice has made

millions of dollars. He's the guy they aspire... He's that Horatio Alger story that they aspire to be. He recently got signed for Bellator. He's going to fight again on television.

How old is Kimbo? It's a good question. I would say he's probably in his 40s now. Wow. You know, when he fought for the Ultimate Fighter,

I think he was like in his late 30s. Let's see, Kimbo Slice. Well, Dada... So they blew up... Team Kim late 30s. Let's see. Kimbo Slice. Dada. So Team Kimbo blew up a fighter named Level. Level Martinez. 41. 41.

Wow. I'm thinking that's old in the world of the average age. Heavyweights tend to age better. But he fought at 205, I believe, in the UFC. I think there's something going on with heavyweights where your body takes longer to learn how to move all that mass, if I had to look at it that way. Lighter weight fighters also rely much more on speed and reflexes. I think as you get larger, you tend to rely more on skills and more on just sort of an understanding

of what your body can and can't do. They have smaller gas tanks, just undeniably. There's no way a heavyweight, unless you're Cain Velasquez, who's really a fucking freak of nature, can fight at the same sort of a pace that a lighter weight guy can. So the UFC heavyweight champion Cain Velasquez is one of the most unique athletes I've ever seen. Does that lend itself to longevity?

I mean, you just sort of like go at it. Well, not him in his case. No, because he's all fucked up. I mean, Cain, who is an amazing fighter and one of the, I think, he might, is a good argument, he might be the best heavyweight of all time, but his body keeps breaking. He keeps blowing out knees and shoulders. It's because he's so mentally tough and he's so driven and focused and so intense and dedicated that he pushes through injuries.

And you can't fucking do that. When you push through injuries, what happens is they just break further. I mean, you can't push through a knee injury. What you're doing is, yeah, you've got to get surgery or you've got to heal or you've got to figure out a way to recuperate the scenario or alter your training so that this doesn't happen in the future. But they're all just so fucking tough, man, which is what made them great wrestlers in the first place

and what allowed them to transition into MMA. But Kane has this insane gas tank where he just doesn't get fucking tired. He just overwhelms guys because he's got so much fucking cardio. And a lot of it is probably natural. Like his body, different people have different natural VO2 maxes. It's one of those things like some people have more fast twitch muscle fiber. Some people have thicker bones. Some people have more.

They can just, especially for some reason, it seems like Mexicans in particular have very good cardio. It's really common, you know, that, I mean, it could conceivably be that a lot of Mexican folks come from really hardworking environments and they've been forced to work like labor jobs, like a lot of them, especially second, third generation, whose parents had an arduous trek to get over here from Mexico. You know, it could be mental, could be just more mentally tough, or it could be some physiological aspect. But my point is that, like, he's a rarity in that his gas tank is just insane. Most heavyweights, as they get older, they kind of learn how to pace themselves better. They learn their skills.

They learn how to be more efficient with their movement. Like Vladimir Klitschko, who is just unstoppable as the heavyweight champion in boxing. I want to say he's 39 years old, which is, I mean, he's coming into his own now. I mean, when he was younger, he went through a streak where he got stopped. I think two fights in a row he got KO'd and, you know, wasn't looking good for him. And now he's like, you know, all these years later, he's like unstoppable. Yeah, he's 38 right now. Wow. And he hasn't lost like 10 fucking years.

I'm kind of fascinated by this because I'm just getting into it now. I spent almost two years following this and several years in post trying to find a way to get it released. Is it done? It is almost done. We're scoring it now.

It's coming out March 12th. And will it be in the films? You go to dog-fight.com, D-A-W-G-fight.com, or if that's tough to remember, cocainecowboys.com. We'll eventually get you there. You can click through. It's going to be online. It's going to be online.

You're going to be able to get it there at the site. Will it be on Netflix? Eventually, absolutely. Apple TV? Oh, absolutely. Eventually everywhere. I'm hoping to eventually get it on Showtime. We've had a great run with the Cocaine Cowboys movies and some of our other docs on Showtime.

It's so good. Cocaine Cowboys is so good. The critic at the Miami Herald saw a rough cut because we're going to premiere it. That shithead? No, the movie critic. Who's a great guy, by the way. Rene Rodriguez. I love Rene.

He saw a rough cut. Go Rene. He saw a rough cut and he said it's our best movie. Dogfight. Whoa. That's strong words. I know a rough cut, and he said, it's our best movie. Dogfight. Whoa. That's strong words. I know. Cocaine Cowboys 1 was amazing.

Cocaine Cowboys 2 might have even been better. Really? Might have been better. Said no one ever. That fucking Griselda said me. Griselda. God damn, that bitch is terrifying. Whenever I hear about people doing shit for money or for a paycheck, I was just like,

listen, I did Cocaine Cowboys 2 hustling with the godmother. I directed a I did Cocaine Cowboys 2 Hustlin' with the Godmother. I directed a movie called Cocaine Cowboys 2 Hustlin', not even hustling, Hustlin' with an apostrophe at the end of it, with the Godmother. Yeah, dude, and it was good. I mean, that's in my filmography. Thank you, you're very kind. No, I'm not kind. I fucking, do you not like the second one

as much as the first one? No, I don't. Really? Yeah, I mean, if I'm ranking, you know, I always say movies are like kids, you know, when people say, do you have a favorite? Fuck yeah, I mean, if I'm ranking, you know, I always say movies are like kids when people say, do you have a favorite? Fuck yeah, but I'm not going to tell you. You know,

it's the same thing with kids. Every parent, I don't give a shit what they say. I love them all equally. No, you don't because some kids are just assholes.

You can't possibly, you know, and some of them are screw-ups in life. Do you have children? No, I don't. Yeah, you can kind of love them all equally because I think when. Yeah. You can kind of love them all equally.

Because I think when kids fuck up... They can't like them all equally. Yeah, there's a part of it that's your fault. That's the thing that people don't want to admit. So you feel guilty. You're saying the guilt compensates for the love or raises the love because you feel that they need more love because you screwed them up. You're responsible for them being assholes.

I had a dog that killed one of my other dogs. And I loved the dog that she killed. But I loved her just as much. And it was very sad. I mean, obviously, I should have loved the dog that got killed more because she wasn't a cunt. She wasn't an asshole that was out there killing the other dogs. But this dog was a sweetie. And I picked her up at the pound.

And she lived at the pound. She was in one of those no-kill shelters for like eight months. When I was young, man, I had a real problem in that – it's hard to talk about, I guess. Where I felt like – I always had this need to help strays. And I think I had this need to help strays because I felt like a stray and when I would see a dog in a pound or like I bought a cat from a fucking pet store because it hissed at me you know because I felt like this poor fucking cat like scared of me I'm not you don't have to scare me I love you and uh I felt that way about this dog this poor dog I used to call her squeaky

because uh when I picked her, she couldn't even talk. She couldn't bark because she had barked so much so often in this pound that her voice was gone. So when she was barking in the pound, she'd be like, bark, bark, bark, bark. It was like this squeaky noise. And I was like, what the fuck is wrong with her voice? And I realized, oh, my God, she's barking all day and she doesn't have a voice anymore. And then when I took her home and took care of her, she eventually got her voice back and she bark't have a voice anymore and then when i took her home and took care of her she eventually got her voice back and she barked like a normal dog but that dog

fucking loved people man she loved people she was so happy to be out of that but she didn't like other dogs because if other dogs came near her she felt like it was a competition for love like if you came near another dog that other dog was going to get that love so she would get upset at that dog for stealing love from her and she would try to attack it so I loved her equally even though she was an idiot you know but it wasn't her fault that she was an idiot you know it would I would I realized from then on I will never get a dog that's not a puppy that you got to raise them from the time they're puppies because then you don't have any they don't have any phobias or

weirdness you get a chance to to raise them around people and raise them around other dogs and socialize them and it's an important aspect of humans just like it's an important aspect of any other animal that's in our culture so um you know i you can love your fucking shitty kids just as much as you love your good kids because it's partly your fault that they're shitty i don't know about that it's your part it's your fault for bringing them into the world some people are just born assholes you know i mean i don't believe that i really i believe yeah i don't think so i think um i think it's how they're some people require more attention i don't think people are born assholes oh i do i think there's nature versus nurture but i think

that because there are people who endure in I would consider, and many other people consider, intolerable stress and abuse and don't become psychotic assholes. And then there are people who are raised in the most loving and nurturing and permissive and enabling environments and become deranged lunatics. So how do you account for that, though? I don't buy that. enabling environments, and become deranged lunatics. Yeah, but I think those... How do you account for that, though? I don't buy that. I think those people that become deranged lunatics,

they probably didn't get the attention that they deserved, or they probably didn't get the... Look, raising a human being is not as simple as just sending the kids to school and talking to them in bed at night. You're training them. You're communicating with them. You're imparting love, and you're imparting... They learn by imitating their atmosphere. They learn

by imitating their environment. Or, they learn because they get ignored and they figure shit out on their own. Some do. People learn different ways and people absorb the lessons they learn in different ways. It's like you were talking about the sort of the chemical makeup of a fighter and how different bones and different bodies respond differently to different

stimulus and depending on your size and your shape and your training and your steroids or whatever. I think that's true of a human. You're born with a certain chemical balance. And I'm not saying that can't shift or change with time. But I think there are certain inclinations that we are born with, good or bad, that cannot be rectified by a proper or positive upbringing. Born with, like right out of the box. Right out of the box.

I don't buy that at all. You're gay, you're crazy, you're black, you're white. Whoa, gay and crazy and black all in one sentence. How dare you? No wonder why people are so upset at you. Those were mutually exclusive examples. But I think that there are unquestionably characteristics that you cannot raise or beat or love out of somebody that they are just ingrained in them i think you should

probably have kids before you say that i really do i think you should probably have kids and raise them from the time they're babies and see the developmental process because it's a lot of you what you're doing right now is just speculating. And me, I've raised three kids. I've been there. I've seen the process of good and bad, the corrective process. And I've been very lucky that my kids don't have developmental issues or mental issues. And some kids are certainly born with that. But I think to a large extent, children imitate their environment.

And there's certainly a lot of deterministic factors there's a lot of genetic factors there's a lot of like in intangible variables that are difficult to there's going to be kids that are more selfish there's going to be kids that are more angry there's going to be kids that are more outgoing there's going to be kids that are more gregarious there's but i'm saying that will happen. You're not going to have shitty people though. Shitty people come from abuse almost always. Almost always. When you have a really terrible person, that terrible person is not treated with love. Almost universally. I just don't buy that unless you have some like real issue, like a real brain issue where there's like some part of the mind it Develops decay or there's a tumor. There's an injury. There's something where there's a there's a disconnect to very critical processes unless that's the case like You don't you don't make a monster. I believe I said, okay. I think I think you can

choose To be a good person or a bad person. I think there are some people that cannot choose, that are chemically... Based on what? Based on who? Give me an example. You're saying it's a very bold statement. I don't think it's that bold. It's very bold.

I don't think it is. It's very bold saying that some people are fucked from birth. No, you might... That's what you're saying. I'm not talking about the spiritual way. I'm talking about it in very much... We're not saying spiritual. We're saying the way they behave.

You're saying that some people, no matter what you do, no matter how much effort you put in, how much love you give these kids, and how much you expose them to different environments, you give them different tasks and different learning opportunities, they're still going to be shitheads.

Yes. Based on what? That's what I'm saying. Based on what? That's such a bold statement. But why would you say that? You have no data. It's not based on anything.

Yeah, but it's also a question of how you define. But it is. There's isolated cases of that everywhere. It's like affluenza. Affluenza is like one of those. But saying there's isolated cases, you should have those isolated cases in your mind if you're saying something like that. I'm citing right now. I'm citing the affluenza cases, for example.

But that's the flu. No, no, no. Not influenza. Affluenza. Oh, affluent people. It's this new made-up thing that say, these kids are shitheads because they've been given everything in life. So now they're assholes. And you would argue, and fairly.

Because they're assholes as and you would argue and and and and that's because they're most likely ignored right? You're saying right just because they have money doesn't mean they have love it doesn't mean they have learning Experiences doesn't mean someone has been nurturing them or guiding them or mentoring them those are the issues that people have it's not money But I'm saying it's also possible that they have mental defects That's all I'm really talking about which is what you've already said which that is a sure people who have who are? Wired is what I'm saying, to propensities to violence, to be short-fused. It's possible. It's very possible that they do.

However, most likely, if they become cunts, it's because someone did a shitty job of raising them. That includes this affluenza, which is a very new term, which is why it fucked me up. It's a horrible term, too. It shouldn't be a thing. It shouldn't be a thing. Well, they've been using this me up. It's a horrible term, too. People have been using this. It shouldn't be a thing. It shouldn't be a thing. Well, they've been using this to exonerate people.

Yes, it's crazy. It's bizarre. Well, it's this world, though, where, and you're going to get on me about this, too, because I don't have kids, but it's this world where everybody's looking for an answer for why their kid's an asshole, for why their kid's acting out, for why their kid is too sensitive, for why their kid is, and everybody needs a diagnosis and or a drug that can help fix them everybody needs to know like oh i'm not fucking up my kid actually has some well invented likely by the time you have one of those issues you've already fucked your kid

that's what's going on children are animals okay just like a person and a grown adult is an animal like no no no it's an animal Animals react to their environment. Have you ever had a feral cat? No, I've had feral cats My friend Laney her and her boyfriend found these fucking cats underneath the house and they this cat had given birth these cats and she Was giving away kittens. All right again. I have to take in strays So I took this fucking stray in and this crazy fucking cat was in my house and learning from feral cats you realize like oh okay like this cat is already fucked like by the time I got to it it was x amount of months old or whatever it was there was no fixing this fucking thing it was

already fucked and that is the case with human beings you develop a certain amount of pathways in your mind, in your intellect, in the way you comprehend the world, in the way you interact with your environment that's based upon the dangers that you've been exposed to, based upon the input that you've had. And once those pathways are defined in a very violent and negative way, or whether you've been ignored, or whether you've been spoiled to the point where you could scream at the help and yell at the housekeepers and everybody bows down in front of you because you're a Rockefeller or something along those lines, the affluenza aspect of it. When you get to a certain point, those pathways are so established in the mind that it's insanely difficult to change that. So when you're coming along, you're saying like,

hey, you know, I need a pill to fix my kid. No you Didn't pay attention to them enough like a child needs constant attention Babies need to have a mother around them all the time a father around them all the time They need input they need to try to develop an understanding of their world and a lot of people don't do that They pass the kid off to the fucking nanny They don't pay attention to it when it off to the fucking nanny they don't pay attention to it when it cries in the crib and they they wonder why their kid gets fucked up when they're working 17 hours a day and they never see the kid and like i don't have any fucking time to

deal with this kid let's put him on prozac well that's what happens how do you then explain the people who overcome adversity who come from horrific life experiences because you can and make something of themselves because you, because it can be done, doesn't mean everyone's going to do it. Not everyone's going to finish a fucking marathon. Just because people start running. Some people run 100 miles. They do that ultra marathon.

Some people get five miles in, they're like, I can't fucking do this. And for whatever reason, they decide to take a nap. They decide to sit on the side of the highway and stop. Some people, they decide, you know what? My mom was a prostitute. My dad was a junkie. And I am not going to be like that.

I'm going to learn and I'm never going to have a drink. I have a friend who's a great guy. And his grandmother used to lock him in his fucking room and lock the door and leave him there for the weekend so she could get drunk. His mom was never there. His parents were never there. And this fucking guy to this day won't touch alcohol. And he, this fucking guy, to this day, won't touch alcohol. And he's not a psychotic asshole, right? And is terrified

about food. Like, he will not throw food away. Like, when he goes to a restaurant and he gets scraps, I mean, it could be a tiny portion. That guy will take that to go with him. He will not waste food. It's because when he was a kid, he was exposed to this horrible situation. But other people could have been exposed to that and become a serial killer.

Other people could have been exposed to the same situation. Right, that's what I'm saying because they're predisposed to being good or bad people. That's exactly what I'm saying. No, it's not a predisposed. He made choices and he became a fighter. And one of the things about martial arts is it gave him a sense of self-worth and character. But you can't say that he's predisposed to be a good person or someone else would be predisposed to be a bad person.

A lot of it is these subtle variables that happen when you're interacting with your environment. I think some of those subtle variables, though, are chemical. They are in the brain. They do exist. It's possible, but it's also you should know what you're talking about when you're saying these kind of things. You're stating them stating them as facts and i think there's a real issue with that when you don't have any data oh no i'm saying them as opinions but you're not though you're saying when you're saying that some people are fucked i'm saying i believe right i'm not saying

that people you know but you're arguing it so strongly like you you have this in your mind as a rigid idea i mean there's definitely possibilities as far as mental deficiencies. I mean look some people are born blind you know some people are born where they don't have any hands so there's a lot of issues with human beings we don't come out perfect but to say that some people could do a great job and their kids just gonna be a monster anyway most likely not. Most likely what you're seeing is people that do not want to take responsibility For the fact they did a shitty job of developing a human being that might be by and large true

But you do have but but but uh schizophrenia is is a legitimate mental defect Okay, but we're talking about a raise because but that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about predisposition to talking about leukemia or schizophrenia You're talking about people being assholes. No, no, no, I'm talking about. I'm talking about, that's a predisposition to- Yeah, but you're not talking about leukemia or schizophrenia. You're talking about people being assholes. No, no, no. You are. I'm not, no, I'm not. But that's what you were saying. No, I'm talking about if you grow up to be a truly disturbed individual, there's not

always an opportunity to change that or to reverse that trend, regardless of how well you're brought up or how loving your parents are. Right, but you used affluenza as an example of that that's not schizophrenia that's people that ignored their fucking kids oh no absolutely what i'm saying what i'm saying is is is is that there are people who have a predisposition towards certain behavior and there are people who may or may not be be raised right i think we're confusing the two issues i think ultimately we might actually be saying the same thing uh in one way or another but i, but I'm talking about legitimate defects

in individuals. Legitimate defects in individuals. Call them mutations, call them what you will. Most certainly there are legitimate defects in certain individuals, most certainly, but I think that a lot of what we're dealing with as a culture, as a community, is if you look at people in indigenous cultures, they're constantly around their children. They spend all this time with their children, and you see far less instances of mental issues. You see far less mental diseases. You see far less issues of depression and the sort of existential angst that we exhibit almost like more frequently than not in our culture. And I think a lot of that has to do with the developmental process of a child is not just

misunderstood, but is ignored and is treated in a way where it's very irresponsible the way a lot of people raise children. Like I have friends. I'm sure of that. I have two friends that are very nice folks, and they both work insanely difficult jobs where they're gone all day long, and their kids are starting to be fucked up. And we've been friends with them for a long time, so I've known their kids since they were little. They've got a kid.

I mean, I can't be too specific about it, or I'll be, but their son is fucked up, man. And they're smart, but they're, they don't have the time and they're not around the kid all the time. And the kid's terrified. And he fucking screams in the middle of the night all the time. They're never home. They're, they're fucking, they're, they have nannies to take care of them. And the kids are really confused. And these people have long hours. They work long hours. And I don't see that changing. And I see their kids coming out of this in a very fucked up way and I'm watching it happen from the

beginning to to where they are now to the point where me me and my family were kind of avoiding them now we don't want to hang out with them because their kids are starting to be disturbed they start they're there they're acting aggressive towards other kids and some sort of a weird way you there their need to be around their parents is like it's it's not it's not normal it's like this like like they're drowning you know if they need air and their around their parents it's not normal it's like they're drowning they need air and their parents are air it's like they cling to them, they hold on to them

they're scared of everything and what it is, is these kids are not being nurtured correctly because it's not natural in the wild as a human being, as an organism it's not natural to be away from your parents for 16 hours of every day it's not natural to see your parents just as hours of every day. It's not.

It's not natural to see your parents just as you go to bed and as you wake up. That's fucking crazy. But that is the norm for a lot of these people that want their cake and they want to eat it too. They want to have a career and also have children. You know, I know a woman who is a fucking huge executive at a major company. And this crazy lady has three kids and they're all nuts. Their fucking kids are nuts. You know why? Because mommy barely exists. Mommy exists in their life for 10 minutes a day. That's nuts, man. That's nuts for a three-year-old and they don't know what mommy is.

They're not around her. You're supposed to be around her hours and hours. You'reosed to be cuddled and nurtured and you play with them and you teach them about life You teach them how to talk and how to count you know And then I have another friend and his wife doesn't work at all and the kid is three It can already count to a thousand and already knows how to spell his name and spell words Because why because the mom's interacting with the kid all day long. And this kid is happy, and I'm seeing the direct effect of people nurturing their kid and developing their kid as a project, mentoring their kid. The same way you would mentor someone about how to do martial arts. The same way you would mentor someone about how to write or how to do mathematics.

You're developing a thing, a thinking thing, and that's what a human being is. And I can't fathom a parent who would have this human being that is born of them that would not want to engage at that level. You know what I mean? Who would be like, oh, I want to go to work and leave my three children in the care of some other person who is not responsible for them in the absolute way that I would be responsible. I can't even fathom

that mentality. So I'm not trying to get parents off the hook with this theory. But you also had an example of a perfectly well-adjusted, outstanding citizen and upright citizen human being who came from a horrible environment and overcame that. Let's not get carried away. He's not an outstanding human being. He's fucked up. He's a

fighter. You don't get to be a fighter. What I'm saying is this guy won't drink and he won't waste food and this is directly because of his horrific childhood. He's not a good guy. In fact, he's kind of abusive towards his children, and he's got issues of his own. He's not a good guy. What I'm saying is there's a direct response to this guy living this horrible life as a child

to him saying, I am not going to be like that anymore. I'm going to make sure I don't do drugs. I'm going to make sure I don't drink. And this is because he lived in this horrible environment where he saw the direct effects of someone being an alcoholic. He learned what not to do instead of what to do. He's a shitty parent. I mean, it's a very complex issue. It's a very complex issue, raising children. And it's an issue where people conveniently, intelligent people, conveniently like to skirt the responsibility of what it is to raise their children.

And I see it from friends. I see it from friends that work long hours. And it's one of the reasons why I choose to work much fewer hours than I could. I want to be around. I'm leaving from here. I'm going to go pick up my kid. And when I do that, I'm going to hang out with them. And I'm going to play.

And we're going to have a good time. And we're going to talk about stuff. And I think it's a responsibility that a parent has. I think people evolve toward that, not only in terms of becoming a parent and your priorities change, but as I get older, I can sense that happening. I want to work less. I want to enjoy life and have experiences a little bit more. Ambition is great. It's great.

I mean, it allows us to become successful to the point where we have less stress. You have a nice home. You have food on the table. You can take care of your needs. But when it gets past a certain point, you know, my friend Brian Callen said it best. He said, you want to be successful enough where you don't worry about what it costs to go out to dinner. He goes, after that, it's all bullshit. And he's right. I mean, once, you know, you can have a nice meal and you don't worry about what it costs to go out to dinner. He goes, after that, it's all bullshit. And he's right.

I mean, once you can have a nice meal and you don't worry about food, you don't worry about having a roof over your head, you don't have to live in a dangerous neighborhood, you can afford to live in an area where you know that your family and your loved ones are safe. Other than that, it's all bullshit. Well, you have a bigger house and then a bigger, and now you have a castle, now you own an island.

Come on, it's all more money, problems biggie said it right you know it's it's at a certain point time it becomes you you trap yourself with your own ambition and you get yourself into a situation where you realize like oh this is not the smart way to do this i've just been caught up in this this zero sum game this idea that you know there's a there's a's a certain, you have to continue to grow, you have to continue to expand, like a corporation. We just had, we're coming out to L.A., once a year we make the pilgrimage, otherwise we work and live in Miami,

and we're coming out to L.A. and it's like, we had a meeting and it's like, this is, on the one hand, it's like, this is the most important meeting of our careers. And then I thought about it, because I like to do this sometimes, just kind of flip something on its head and go 180 degrees on the one hand it's like this is the most important meeting of our careers and then i thought about it because i like to do this sometimes just kind of flip something on its head and go 180 degrees and say what if my belief is the exact what if the reality is the exact opposite of my belief so i said what if this is the least important meeting of our careers

and it dawned on me it's like it's something kind of outside of our it's it's in the entertainment industry but it's kind of outside of our core competency as nonfiction filmmakers. And it certainly would advance us in the industry. But I was just like, if nothing comes of it, or it doesn't go well, this most important meeting of our careers, we go home, we go back to work making our documentaries. we go back to work making our documentaries I have very little to complain about I don't have to worry about where my next meal is going to come from or where or if I'm going to have a roof over my head I still got to work but we'll just keep doing what we've always been doing

and we're pretty happy pretty happy in life what more do I actually I'd love to be able to support my parents a little bit but there's little things like that but beyond that it's just like so what happens if this most important meeting doesn't go well? It's like, life is still pretty good. Like, I don't have that much to complain about.

So, yeah, I don't know if that's a product of being, and ten years ago, I would have been like, oh, shit, this is it. Everything's riding on this. And now I'm kind of like, well, but what if it doesn't go well? It's still good. grow you learn you just get better at functioning and you get better at coping with stress and you also have a perspective of a long life you know you have this perspective of many years of life on this planet and learning the lessons i was thinking about that with the you know we were talking about the heavyweights getting older and kimbo being forward what we said 41 and you know, we were talking about the heavyweights getting older and Kimbo being 41.

And I'm thinking, because we did this doc for ESPN called Broke about professional athletes going broke. And exactly what you just described, which is like the natural or typical trajectory of an American. It's like you're born, you go to school, you learn a trade, presumably. You graduate and enter the workforce. You enter, obviously, at the entry level. You start to work your way up in said industry or pivot to something else or whatever it is. But in the meantime, you get married. Maybe you get divorced.

Maybe you get married again. You make some investments, some good, some bad. You buy a house. You have a mortgage. Maybe you have a foreclosure. You get some experience. You start to learn as you grow and as you grow and advance in an industry you're making more money hopefully and then by the time you're say in your 50s you're at the peak of your powers

you are making the most you're going to make uh and then you retire and that entire structure is completely upside down for a professional athlete because they're going to make the most money they're ever going to make in their lives basically in their 20s right you know even if you're a sort of premium you know the most successful creme de la creme like like top one percent of professional athletes because the other thing people don't understand in this in this business is that like and that's sports and entertainment is that like not everybody is a millionaire people don't understand that. A lot of professional athletes are journeymen.

They make decent money or they make league minimum, whatever it is, but they still have to work. They can't just retire tomorrow and be okay. And that's the thing about when people see that you make movies, your shit's on Showtime, or I see your stuff all the time. You have a check on Twitter. It's like, you must be a millionaire. There's this incredible misconception in my line of work that we're rich and famous. And we are neither of those things. You should be rich from that fucking documentary.

From Cocaine Cowboys. If you didn't get rich, somebody fucked you. The most money I've ever made in the drug industry is selling my urine to my friends. Because I was the only guy that didn't smoke or didn't do drugs. In the drug industry? Yeah, meaning like my friends would like... You made more than that than you did from Cocaine Cowboys? Yeah. No, I never sold my urine.

Because my friends are going to be like, dude, my employer is going to start retesting if you say you sold me some piss. But it's true. I was the kid growing up that never... I didn't drink until I was 21. Have you ever done Coke? No. Never? Never.

Adderall? A half an Adderall once. Right before the show? No. No? No. It's a good guess, though. Solid.

I ate Jolt Energy Gum before the show. Jolt Energy Gum? Remember Jolt Cola? Yeah. They have an energy gum? Oh. Yeah Cola? Yeah, they have energy gum. Oh. Yeah. Don't do that.

That's bad. You're going to have a heart attack. I'm sweating a little bit. Yeah, that's true. Plus, you're going to crash at the end of this. You're going to need a nap. No. No time.

I'm in LA, dude. The pulse of this city is just... You got to keep going, huh? Oh, yeah. Stop. Go, go, go, go, go, go. Stop, stop, stop, stop. Go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

Stop, stop, stop, stop. The pulse of this city, yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. stop, stop. Go, go, go, go, go, go. Stop, stop, stop, stop. The pulse of this city, yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. So when you were doing Cocaine Cowboys, did you ever have any desire to do coke to see what the fuss is all about? No. In fact, it's interesting. I went to an arts high school, and this is the mid-'90s, early to mid-'90s.

So drug trends I find like nostalgia trends are cyclical. There are certain perennials. Like pot's always popular. But, like, in the mid-'90s, it was back to, like, 60s drugs again. People were doing, my friends were doing, like, psychedelics. They were doing acid, shrooms. Good for them. Ecstasy was, like, in a similar genre.

So MDMA was on the rise then. High school kids couldn't afford cocaine. But that wasn't as popular as it later became in the aughtsughts you know in the zeros again i mean that that trend was coming around but like um i was just never curious to kind of alter my mind my partners and i started our first company when we were sophomores in high school so i was like working i was like sort of goal oriented and then i was like i was raised to believe that like you go to school and then you go to college you know and you go to when i think it was my college, you know, and you go to college. I think it was my junior year when I had friends in high school.

I had friends who were seniors. And for the first time in my life, I learned that not everybody goes to college. That was the first time I knew that because I was just raised to believe that that's just the natural course of life. I had friends who, like I said, were in arts high school. We're going to go. I'm going to New York and I'm going to be a dancer and I'm going to go to L.A. And I'm going to. And I was like, what's for college? And they're like, no, no, no, I'm going to get an apartment

with some friends. That was like a foreign concept to me. So I was like the straight arrow. I was a kid who finally got the respect that we would sit around in a circle and they'd be passing the joint and they would just pass it like around me. You know, they would know not to even Would you in a room? Yeah, we'd be like in a garage, we'd be in a backyard. So you got hot boxed? No, usually we're in a backyard. Usually we're in a backyard. I'm sure I've gotten that secondhand stone before. You must have.

I've seen people get fucked up on weed, but like have panic attacks. Oh, yeah. I've seen it in this room. I didn't know. I thought it was supposed to be like this chill high, like this mellow high. Timothy Leary had a great expression about weed not about weed rather about LSD that la that LSD induces states of paranoia and psychosis and people that have never tried it like That people are terrified of LSD and you know just like I thought that way about coke

I mean like I felt if I did coke you'd have to scrape me off the fucking ceiling with a shovel or a rake or something. Because I would just be crazy. This is how I am normally, with some caffeine. I wasn't afraid. I was always just like, I'm not going to have a positive reaction to this. And I don't know that the prohibition has ever been a deterrent. Because obviously drugs are quite readily available in Miami in particular. Still?

Believe it or not. Big coke scene still? Not as big of a coke scene, but like Molly is big now, certainly weed. The biggest problem today- But Molly is like the nicest people to be around. The difference between people that are on Molly, they want to rub you, they want to come over and hold hands with you, they're friendly, they want to hug. Well, the biggest concern there is like-

People that are on coke just won't shut the fuck up. the biggest concern there is like, what are you actually ingesting? Like, who are you buying it from? Right. What did they cut it with? Which is the problem with the illegality. The prohibition creates the poison. For sure, man. Unregulated.

I mean, all these fucking people that are smoking fake weed, they're smoking this spice stuff and all this. Terrible. Oh, it's awful for you. You don't even know what you're ingesting in your lungs. Your body doesn't know what to do with it. It's alien. You know, the cannabino're ingesting in your lungs. Your body doesn't know what to do with it. It's alien. You know, the cannabinoid receptors are like, what the fuck is this?

You know, it's like the same argument against artificial sweeteners, but to a much heightened, much more heightened level because the way it's interacting with your mind is, you know. I just think, again, I think it's traces, marijuana prohibition is like traces of this kind of like racism we were talking about earlier, this idea that can't get past past if you objectively analyze we're talking about trayvon zimmerman you just objectively analyze the facts of the situation there's really only one reality there and and it's it's incredible to me how people how race gets in the way of blocking their access to that reality but it's the same thing with marijuana prohibition it's a plant that grows out of the earth that is less dangerous than poison ivy, which is

legal, although I wouldn't smoke it. People have a real hard time being objective about issues that are hot-button issues, whether it's drugs, whether it's religion, whether it's race. You have these drug dealers in lab coats at the local pharmacy who are killing children. Not them, but these pharmaceutical companies who are creating poison toxic chemicals that people because a doctor writes you a prescription for it gleefully hand it to their wives their kids their parents like that is a that is a mindset that's like ingrained in us as a result of just like a life of propaganda and just mind-fucking.

I mean, it's literally just brainwashing that you could think, oh, this plant that grows out of the ground, you shouldn't roll that and smoke it. We do it with cigars, we do it with cigarettes. But as soon as you start adding crazy shit to it, like nicotine or chemicals, that makes it legal because the FDA is too. I just don't understand. It's tax stamps. I mean, alcohol is one of the most devastating drugs.

But why are people OK with it? Well, it's because people are OK with culture. When culture is firmly established and you grow up in that environment, it seems normal to put a fucking plate in your lips and stretch your lips out. It seems normal to put a bone through your nose. Why? Because all the elders, they have the scarification on their face. I'm going to get scarred up too.

I mean, that's what everybody does. We imitate our atmosphere. To pay the government 25 cents to make a dime? We were talking about earlier about laws, about cops enforcing laws that are just essentially revenue collecting laws. They're not protecting anybody from anything. There was two kids, barely teenagers. They had the snow day out east with the blizzard a couple weeks ago.

And so instead of sitting around dicking around at home, because it wasn't nearly as bad as everyone thought it was going to be, they decided instead of watching TV or playing video games or, I don't know, smoking the pot, they said, let's grab a couple shovels, go door to door, and make five bucks and offer to clean people's driveways. And the cops came because they got complaints. The kids were knocking on doors or whatever, I guess, and stopped. They didn't have a proper permit to be offering their services.

I did that all throughout my childhood. When I was a kid, we would get psyched when it would snow now. Me and my friends would go around the neighborhood and we'd shovel and we'd make deals. Dude, they shut down lemonade stands now for not having proper permitting and licenses. That's ridiculous. And that's the revenue collecting aspect that we were talking about. They're not about upholding the peace or protecting or serving. New Jersey teens blocked from shoveling snow without permit.

Cunts. That's all that is. Jersey. Jersey is a state where people can't even pump their own gas, for crying out loud. Does it say the cop's name so we can say it on the air? Police Chief Michael Giannone told MyJerseyCentral.com the two teens were not arrested or issued a ticket, but were stopped because the town was in a so-called state of emergency in advance of the coming storm.

Shut the fuck up. Emergency, you pussy. MyCentralJersey.com. It's called. Ooh, it's emergency. That's my homepage. Where you can't shovel snow because it's going to be more snow out. Yeah, good call.

Fucking assholes. But again, listen. But this is what you were talking about before. These are the rules on the books that they're enforcing. They're not making up these laws, the cops. They're not going to prop a permit for shoveling. There's a permit for helping people get out of... Is that Boston or is that Jersey?

Whatever it is. If you shovel someone for free, is that okay? Oh, it's just an exchange of money. You know, that's what it is. You could go around the neighborhood as a good Samaritan, shovel everybody out, but the cops would have a problem with that. If you're not giving the government, like I said, if you're not paying the government 25 cents to make a dime,

because how much are these kids going to make that they could go out and spend, I don't know, $300 on a permit so that for one day, on a snow day when they're not at school, they could go around and make five bucks a driveway? Like, it's insane. I think cops should investigate really hot women that date these old, decrepit old men that are barely alive

and they drive around in Rolls Royces and shit. You should be like, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. Let's sit down. Sit down. Let's talk. What are you getting out of this? You getting money? You give me that Rolls? I want 25% of that Rolls. What? That Rolls is worth $250,000. Pay up, hooker. Why take 25%?

They could just use asset forfeiture and take the whole thing. Yeah, that girl's a whore. She should give up that money. Give up that fucking car, bitch. You know you don't love that old man. It's a prostitution sting. Gotta seize it. Seize the rolls. Anna Nicole Smith and her husband. Remember that dude? Rest in peace. Yeah, before he died. Both of them. Yeah, both of them. Yeah, right? She's dead

too. Isn't that crazy? But, like, I mean, that was one of the more clear examples of public prostitution you're ever going to see. A billionaire, J. Howard Marshall, and a big Kentucky Fried Hooker. I mean, that's what it was. And you have one that's profiting off of the other. When you go to the Seminole Hard Rock in Hollywood, Florida at the Improv, you don't stay in the Anna Nicole suite? There's an Anna Nicole suite? She died there.

Oh, there's ghosts. There's ghosts of fake titties. There was a rumor, by the way. The Seminoles would never confirm this, but there was a rumor that they actually sent a witch doctor or something in there to kind of depoltergeist or whatever the room. And then they completely redid the room, poltergeist or whatever the room. And then they like completely redid the room, changed the number.

Like that's the room. No, they would never comment on it or confirm that. Well, she was so dumb. I bet her ghost would be too stupid to haunt anybody. I bet her ghost would be like, woo.

No boo. Oh, I got fucking, I quit. The ghost would just take naps. Her ghost would just take naps and do pills. Imagine if you just, you saw a ghost of of a fat chick eating pills on the couch. It's such a non-threatening ghost.

Especially on seminal land. She would be the least scary ghost in an Indian burial ground. Think about that. You're talking about Native Americans who are not just persecuted, but genocide was committed upon their people. And as a compensation, they were given swaths of land where they can open up casinos. I mean, it's madness. Dude, I always say the Indian casinos are, you know, the famous saying is the house always wins.

I'm like, the Indian casino is the only casino where the house never wins. Because no matter how much money you lose, we still rape their women and stole their country. So it's like, call it reparations. Like, sit down at the one-armed bandit and how much money you lose, we still rape their women and stole their country. So it's like, call it reparations, like sit down at the one arm bandit and lose some money for crying out loud. Like it's, it's, it's the,

but what's interesting is that like now, uh, and this might be a, this might go to you too, to your earlier point that, uh, it's affluenza. There's,

there are like no native Americans that work at these casinos anymore. They sit at home, get the check every month from the revenue. And now they're hiring white boys to wrestle out alligators and like do all that, like, you know, the Indian cultural Native American rather cultural shit. And there's no no Indians in an Indian casino anymore. They're all just kind of living off the fat of the land and getting their checks and not incentivized to motivate or do anything. And you see higher rates of alcoholism, of drug abuse, and they're just sitting around, you know, getting checks and a lot of them are dying.

Well, that's always been an issue on Native American reservations, right? Alcoholism. Depression. Drug abuse. Depression. I mean, their culture was stolen. I mean, it's like essentially they were wiped out except for a few survivors who were then forced to assimilate in this new, strange culture. And then made aware of it painfully every step of the way when you're growing up that you were the loser in this cultural genocide attack.

And these are the people. Seminoles are unconquered, they always remind me. Yes, they always say that. Well, the Seminoles actually do a lot of good things they use that money in a lot of good ways and they support a lot of charities like that tribe in Florida is responsible for a lot of good things

and dude they bought one of the most American brands the hard rock talk about the ultimate fuck you we own the hard rock I'm like what a great yeah i love that club too i work at that club every time i'm down there i i prefer that club over the the bigger one in west palm which i get more money at i like it's like a more intimate environment i go there and i sacrifice a little money and i have a better time sometimes my

girlfriend was doing a project for school a few months ago and it was about the appropriation of native american culture and how it's one of the few races where it's still okay it's the whole redskins phenomenon you know like how it's still okay to be racist and to create kind of like minstrel-esque images of them children dressing up skins how about the fucking redskins that's like having a team called the n-word that's the equivalent but people don't look at it that way. I just don't understand how they don't just change the name. It's not a difficult thing. Look, if you want to honor Native Americans and somehow or another keep that,

you could just change the name. You could call it whatever. I mean, there's people that call it the Warriors, like the Golden State Warriors. I don't think if they do have an issue with that, they're being silly. Because that's an honorable... I mean, that's like you're being proud of what these people were at their finest or at their most noble and powerful. People still get offended by the mascotry, though. Of course.

And that's a real kind of like white guilt moment for me. There's animal rights activists that get offended by any mascots. You're always going to have some people that are ridiculous, but red skin is a little weird, man. I didn't really think about it that way, but it's incredibly offensive. Cleveland Indians? Yeah, I saw it earlier.

Yeah, that's offensive, you fuck. Good work, wild thing. Good work, wild thing. Yeah, I just like, but I wasn't, that was something I was completely, I don't want to say I was insensitive to it. I was just kind of unaware of it. And then she starts doing this whole PowerPoint on it.

And she starts going and getting like racist iconography through the years, particularly inside comparisons to like classic you know pre-civil rights era racist advertising and uh you know and and posters and and imagery and art and then contemporary native american depictions left and right and i'm like oh shit i was like yeah how can we not see that that's like that was that that racist you know a black you know the black cartoon face with the great big lips eating a watermelon like that was okay once you can advertise your store or your product using

that kind of shit yeah and then she's got the same exact reminiscent imagery but from like contemporary ads and again kids dressed up as as indians and with the fate of the war paint and the headdress and and and the kind of and and kind of comparing that to modern day uh uh a minstrel and i'm like that's fastened like i just never thought about it

that way and then white privilege as a white man i started to feel all fucking bad about it again and i'm like i'm the asshole i never thought this before, and I'm an asshole for never having considered. But Redskins is like, I'm saying it, I'm actually going like, oh shit, should I be saying the R word? I'm actually now in that headspace because of white guilt. It's definitely not necessary.

It's not! Look, you could still have the same exact team with the same exact athletes, the same exact pride, and just let's get together and have a contest to come up with a new Look, you could still have the same exact team, the same exact athletes, the same exact pride. And just let's get together and have a contest to come up with a new name. And you would get people that would be so happy about that. And the publicity from that contest alone. I'm sorry, but we're going to keep it out of tradition.

And because our fans aren't offended by it, we had slavery out of tradition. Does Andrew Mimer still have a fucking black lady that looks like a slave on the cover of their... Yes. Jesus fucking Christ. How's that happening? That's a thing. Is there an Aunt Jemima.com? I think she's the woman who actually created the syrup. There's an Aunt Jemima.com.

But she's a lovely woman. Yeah, well, she looks different now. Yeah, she's not all dressed up like the mammy. She used to be a mammy, though. Oh, yeah. It was right out of Antebellum South. It was like a Gone with the Wind character. Like the maiden? She used to be a mammy, though. Oh, yeah. It was like right out of Antebellum South. It was like a Gone with the Wind character. Absolutely.

Yeah, right? Yeah. And, uh... Yeah, she's a lovely working woman now. Well, she has regular hair now, too. She used to have that bandana over her hair. Well, she wouldn't get her dirty hair and the white man's food. Yeah, this is what she used to look like, man.

Good Lord. Yeah. Oh, my God. Aunt Jem she used to look like man good lord yeah oh my god mama used to look like a slate well that's why that's why they updated wendy you know because the ginger protest movement was trying to get wendy of wendy's you know no i'm just oh but i but i'm wondering like the red heads not the red skins with the red heads but that's what i'm wondering i'm wondering like are we at what point is it be, are we veering into political correctness? I think the Redskins thing is going too far. I really believe that. You mean in a negative way?

Yeah, I don't think we're being overly sensitive is what I'm saying. No, I don't think so at all. I think it's fucked up. I think if you were a Native American, it would be a huge issue. Absolutely. It would be very much like, like you know if you had the fucking You know San Francisco guineas, you know Yeah, yeah

The mascot was the fucking Italian guy with a hairy chest and gold chains looking stupid with pasta stains on his shirt That would be Jersey that would be San Francisco. Well, you know There's a lot of guineas in San Francisco. Believe it or not. Really? Is that a thing? Yeah, is there like a little Italy? Is there like what? Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of Italianineas in San Francisco believe it or not. Really? Is that a thing? Yeah. Is there like a little Italy? Is there like what? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of Italian people in San Francisco. Yeah. San Francisco has some fucking amazing Italian food. Goddamn on Columbus Ave right here. Best dim sum of my life. They're very good Chinese food, but very good Italian food too. San Francisco is really good. There's some jam in Italian restaurants we eat at every time we work there. I was complaining about, have you ever driven in San Francisco? It is treacherous.

Dude, it is fucking treacherous. It's easy. I grew up in Boston, son. Oh yeah, I grew up in Miami. I grew up on black ice. We're at sea level. We're at sea level. There's no,

you know the highest elevation in the state is Mount Trashmore. It's a landfill. That is the highest elevation in the state. How tall is it? And appropriately,

when they did that movie Rock of Ages, they put the Hollywood sign on Mount Trashmore. That's where they redid. Oh, that's funny. We always say in Florida, the only thing you can't really recreate is mountains and snow, but they found a way to do it. I don't know how high it is, but that's the highest point of elevation in Florida.

It's all trash. Mount Trashmore. It's a landfill that they're just piling on. But I grew up, when I went to San Francisco, it was the scariest thing in my life. We were actually doing Cocaine Cowboys 2, Hustlin' with the Godmother, in Oakland, in Brookfield Village. And I had to drive the equipment truck back and return the equipment at the end of that shoot. So I'm driving in this great big truck with, I don't know, untold thousands of dollars worth of equipment that I've got to return to this house. And I was just petrified.

Why? Because I was looking straight up. Oh, the hills. The hills, dude. Did you ever see Bullet with Steve McQueen? Of course. I watched it again a couple weeks ago. Or a couple months ago.

I was on a trip in Canada, and I was watching it with a friend who had never seen it before. I was like, dude, you're in for a goddamn treat. This is a real American movie. And it's also a movie where there's very little dialogue. It's a great movie, man. Bullet with Steve McQueen is a real American movie. And it's also a movie where there's very little dialogue. It's a great movie, man. Bullet with Steve McQueen's a great movie. The 70s were like the last golden age of American cinema. It's when

shit got real. It's when shit got real. Yeah, they were definitely different. It was a completely different style of making a movie back then. You didn't have to have music in every goddamn scene. You had some real moments, too. Gritty, gritty, gritty gritty gritty gritty gritty and like and i think they were just coming out of of you know the 60s with that transition

where in terms of censorship where you could start getting away you start pushing the envelope in the 60s by the 70s there was no envelope anymore in just mainstream cinema you could do practically anything yeah and they did. And so you had, and that wasn't just in terms of like sex and violence, but in terms of the reality and the grittiness of the stories and the characters. Shit became really, Dirty Harry,

like those early Dirty Harry movies are like brutal. Yeah. They're brutal. But they're dumb. Yeah. The difference between that and like Bullet. Bullet is a brilliant movie. It's like the people that are in it,

they're great actors. It feels real. You know like there's some Dirty Harry moments where you're like go ahead. Make my day. Come on. Fuck out of here you crazy asshole. You know it's like they're fun but you know it's a fun movie to watch but it doesn't give you a feeling like you're actually

watching something that could actually be taking place. But it's brutal. It is brutal. It is just raw. Death Wish, too. The first one, yeah. Charles Bronson, man. Yeah, the first one, not the fifth one so much. Well, there's, yeah, they started selling out, his face started getting fatter. Listen, again, I made Cocaine Cowboys 2

Hustle of the Godmother. I can't complain about sequels. Why do you not like that one, man? I made the year part two. I don't understand why Cocaine Cowboys 2 you keep apologizing for that. I'm not apologizing for it. Okay, so Cocaine Cowboys 2, you keep apologizing for that. I'm not apologizing for it. Okay, so Cocaine Cowboys 1, you have no apologies, right? No, I mean, there's certainly things I do differently. We got to do Cocaine Cowboys Reloaded, which was great.

What was wrong with part two? No, there was nothing wrong with it. Did someone force you to call it Hustlin' with the Godmother? No. Is that what's up? I think what happens is you have a lot of temporary working titles that just stick. Like our first doc, we did this. There's nothing wrong with it.

We did this doc called Raw Deal, A Question of Consent. And that was Raw Deal was just our working title. And it was about the alleged rape of a stripper at the Delta Chi Fraternity House at the University of Florida in Gainesville in the spring of 99. And the entire night's events were captured on two video cameras. Whoa. And so we used the video footage. And then we interviewed the stripper and we interviewed some of the fraternity men. So the thing about the footage is that it was placed in the public record.

I was talking about these very liberal public record laws we have in Florida. So it was placed in the public record, and it became like the cause celeb in Gainesville. Gainesville is a small town. I used to live there. Did you really? Yeah, I lived there when I was a little kid. Between the age of 7 and 11, I lived in Gainesville. Really?

Yeah, I'm a Lackawanna County resident. Going to the University of Florida, 11 I lived in Gainesville really yeah you were a Lackawanna County resident going to the University of Florida so I was down there I used to go to Lake Alice and feed the crocodiles or alligators marshmallows before they made it to the eagle

wow yeah yeah well they were in the Ocala National Forest you might be familiar oh sure yeah and they were doing

a big brother little brother pledge event I didn't rush I'm not I wasn't in the Greek world but good for you some ritual where there there's a bonfire I don't know what the wasn't in the Greek world, but some ritual where there's

a bonfire. I don't know what the hell they do. Is there anything that needs to be boycotted? Boycott that shit, kids. Enough. Be your own fucking man. Jesus Christ. We premiered at Sundance Film Festival and then later went to the Edinburgh Film Festival. It's like the Sundance of Europe. So we go to Edinburgh and all the questions,

which is kind of interesting because most of the questions in America were about this controversy, which I'll get into in a minute, but almost all the questions, which is kind of interesting because most of the questions in America were about this controversy, which I'll get into in a minute, but almost all the questions in Edinburgh were about what the hell the Greek system is. They don't have it there. So they were completely, this was like a total, it was like a Nat Geo doc for them.

They were like, what is this Greek, you know, like what is fraternities? And I'm like the least qualified person to be at, you know, to be talking about that. Then when you go to the University of Miami, which I did, and I was a Miami guy, like you don't need to for for the for social interaction you don't need a club like you might need to do in gainesville or tallahassee or these college towns these insulated college towns where you know the social environment is very kind of restricted in miami it's like who cares hazing and all the fucking pledging. It's creepy, dude. Fuck all that, man.

It's creepy. So they're hazing these kids or whatever this ritual, the big brother, little brother pledge ritual out in the forest. They go back to the fraternity house, to the common area, and they have two strippers that they hired to come and perform. One of the strippers leaves after the show. One of the strippers goes back for a private party with some of the fraternity men. Come the dawn, she goes running to a neighboring fraternity house. Her grandmother was actually a house mom of one of the, she thought this was the house that her grandmother worked at. It wasn't, but she's wearing nothing but a t-shirt that belonged to one of the fraternity men coming up to her about her belly button and banging on the door of this neighboring house saying that she had been raped.

And she told the University Police Department that they had videotaped it and they go and get the videotape footage. She told the University Police Department that they had videotaped it, and they go and get the videotape footage, and spoiler alert, watch one of the two videotapes and arrest the stripper for filing a false police report based on the videotape footage. And as a result of that... One of the two videotapes? One of the two videotapes. What about the second videotape? They didn't care. But does the second videotape show an actual rape? The second videotape, as it turns out, was just coverage of, it was like A-cam, B-cam.

So the second videotape doesn't show that much more. It just shows alternate angles of the same action rather than, but so, so what happens is there's now a misdemeanor filing a false police report case against this woman. And as a result, the media says, well, we want to see that this is evidence in a criminal case. Her lawyer argues that under rape shield laws, that her identity should be protected in her, and this videotape footage should be protected because it depicts a rape a judge viewed the footage and says this ain't no rape and they release the footage to the public and there and there becomes there's a backlog at the state attorney's office and the clerk of courts there

because there's like a they're like making copies the videotape and sending it to people so in gainesville if you were the first person on your block to get the tape what they call the rape tape you'd have a kegger people would invite friends over to their house and they because you were the first person to get and everybody wanted to see it so what happens is like uh growing up in miami you got friends of course who go to gainesville go to tallahassee you know go to the two major state schools of course only in florida do our two flagship state schools where they both both uh targets of major serial killers ted bundy and tallahassee and danny rolling and university of florida only in florida um and so we hear from friends so i'll never forget this as long as i live we hear from one of our friends and we grew up same neighborhood i say that same upbringing

white middle-class jewish kids i say that to say we had similar kind of life experiences and come come at things with a not dissimilar worldview so they said did you hear this is like summer of 99 by now they're like did you hear about this case with delta kai and the stripper and the videotape i said yeah yeah i read about it and and they're like i just saw the videotape at a friend's house i was like well what happened and and my friend's like he's like it was disgusting what they do to this poor woman like, he's like, it was disgusting. What they do to this poor woman. Like, I haven't been able to eat or sleep for days. It's horrible what they put her through, how they talk to her, how they put her down, how they hold her down.

She's kicking and trying to get away. And I can't believe they haven't arrested these guys. And it's just, I'm just completely distraught over it. And then days later, I hear from another buddy again. We all grew up together. Same story. Same group. He, I said, what? I said, he said, did you hear about the video? I said, of hear from another buddy again. We all grew up together. Same story. Same group. I said, what?

He said, did you hear about the video? I said, of course. I just heard. Yeah, he's like, this lying slut. Oh, no. She's screwing around with all these guys. And then she cries rape. They should lock her up and throw away the key.

And I'm like, what on earth? You have two. Did you see the tape before this? No, not before this. I'd only heard about it from these guys. I'm like, two reasonable, educated, similar demo guys watch the same footage

and diametrically disagree about whether or not they witnessed a consensual or non-consensual sex act. And I'm like, we gotta see this footage. So in a sense, it's analogous to this Trayvon Martin thing in a sort of way, but you actually have a video. People people predisposed Yeah, the Duke Lacrosse case which they never turns out

They never touched the girl a lot of the guys were alibi one guy was at an ATM machine Making a withdrawal while the woman claims that he was raping her um, but here you had sexual interact unquestionably right undeniably Here was videotape footage of the sexual interaction what's your take on what actually happened you gotta see the movie i hate to say i know i hate to say that i'm gonna send it to you you know we don't have much time left you don't worry about it just tell me because you have to tell me like what do you think you have to what i think is is that you have one of the most oft committed least reported crimes in like the history of man and most of these crimes as they say are not like the masked man in the bushes stranger rape makes up the minority of rape it's mostly

it's mostly acquaintance or date rape what i think though is that you have a world where we expect videotape footage to tell an objective truth to say here's the surveillance video there's the guy robbing the store let's go find him case closed when you have a crime like this that exists predominantly in the minds of the alleged victim and alleged perpetrator it's almost impossible to determine because not all you know what what what what she claims like this wasn't a a hollywood rape this wasn't me kicking and screaming and crying going no no no no no no no she was a professionalpper. She had been most of her life. And she comes from a world where we spoke to a rape crisis counselor whose office was near a strip club, like close

to a lot of strip clubs in Florida. And he found a lot of professional girls, so to speak, who would come in and they're always trying to maintain a line. You know, this is what these, you know, ever got a lap dance, like, here are the rules. I can touch you you can and then over the course of the thing depending on how much money is spent the the lines get blurred you get you know there's certain things there's certain compromises that are made and so what happens here is that over the course of a long night she had danced at like three or four play this like her third or fourth show last one of the night she um she partied with the guy she was drinking uh they were drinking um they might have even been rolling uh there's a lot of the that line gets seriously blurred okay and at

what point can you you know at any point if a woman doesn't want if there was i i pull the audience and this is really interesting too because i would call it the worst date movie of all time i pull the audience we always assume that like the women would side with her and the men would side with the men. Very often, it's the exact opposite of that. And the men are more inclined to believe her and the women are more inclined to believe the men. Because they don't want to... The behavior from both parties is pretty reprehensible, depending on your morals and values. For some people, it's a Tuesday night.

But for others, it's a tuesday night but for others it's like this is appalling i don't want to associate my gender's behavior with that behavior and so not to say she deserves or anything but like people really want to dismiss it's interesting i talked to roy black i know the famous defense attorney one of his most famous clients was william kennedy smith the famous rape trial in palm beach at the kennedy compound and uh roy black going in um the kennedys were like well we need kennedy democrats on this jury obviously and the jury consultant came in and said no what you need is middle-aged or older white republican women because their values they're going to look at this this woman goes out with this man drinking and dining they go she goes back to his place at whatever ungodly hour of the night and what

does she expect will happen that's much more the mentality of not kennedy democrats but they wound up going with that jury not only did he get acquitted but roy black married the jury the jury for woman is leah black if you're familiar with the real housewives of Miami. I'm sure you're an advocate. Yeah, I know. The real housewives of Miami. I know nothing of that. If you took one part of each of the housewives, you might be able to build one real one.

I think. But that's anyway. So we, the men and women diametrically are sort of opposed. And then you have a situation where I pull the audience and I'll say, how many of you believe she was raped? How many of you believe she wasn't raped? How many of you believe that some sexual activity occurred that she didn't consent to, that she didn't want to happen? Most people raise their hands. I'm like, well, that under the law is right.

But how do you find a jury of 12 people that is going to convict based on her being... Social Justice Warrior websites. They were judging her behavior. And I'll tell you something. In this case, I'm with them. Well, I'm reading the police report, which is like a 70-page police report on a misdemeanor, filing a false police report. It's a police report against her, the case against the woman for filing a false police report. And the woman who wrote it, the detective, I thought it revealed more about her than anybody else. But she there's there's one phrase I'll never forget in all of these pages.

She writes, the woman went to dance at all of these houses, leaving her two children who are black at home with a babysitter, with her mother or something like that. And I was like, who are, just those three words. And I was like, she had been married to her ex-husband, was a black man, they had two children together. And I was like, what, how in the world? Well, you lived in Alachua County. I don't know if that means something to people there,

but I was like, how does that have any, who are, is it her children who are black? Who are... He said, her children, who are black, were left at home. Polish. Yeah, her children, who are Russian. Her children, who are Italian. I've never seen that. I'm like, what are we trying... What's the implication or what's the relevance of this in a criminal proceeding?

But I will put it to you this way. The people leave... I, over the course of working on the movie, I changed my mind several times over the course of watching the movie. And as you live life and get more life experience, because people come to this movie with their own baggage. I've seen, I've had Q&As where women get up to the microphone and say, I've never said this before. I was the victim of a rape on campus and start talking. It's a very, it can be a very cathartic experience.

It can be a very disturbing. There are people who can't even watch it. Well, it's very, very common. I mean, but it's also common. False rape claims are also very common. They're not. They're not common. Not common. False rape claims happen all the time. They're not common, though. What do you mean by not

common? They're a minority of rape claims. I agree with that. Yeah. However, they're still common. Yes. And extraordinarily damaging to everybody involved. But common. No, I don't... What do you mean by not common? Well, I think rape... What percentage. But common? No, I don't... What do you mean by not common? I think rape...

What percentage is not common? If they happen every day, and they do, is that not common? I think you're... Yes, it's common, but you're talking about single digits. No, no, no. I'm not talking about majority. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about... They occur regularly.

Yes, which is common, right? Yes, they occur regularly. And that must be taken... If you're going to look at it completely objectively... Yes, you are. Well, you're being sensitive to the victims, which is very important. But if you look at it objectively, and just as strictly as a numerical issue, I mean, I believe the number's like 8%.

I think that's the statistically proven number as far as like investigated claims of rape. I think it's lower but it's single digits. You're right. It probably varies. Yes, I think it's single digits. It probably varies and then there's also the reality that a lot of rapes go unreported because women are ashamed of what happened and they would rather just ignore it. And because they're going to be accused of

false reporting and their entire past and sexual experience is going to be brought to bear. And there's also you also have to take into consideration a lot of false rape claims. The guys get convicted and it's never proven it's a false rape claim. That's a fact. I've had that happen to a friend. I know that it works both ways. Human beings are, we vary.

You know, there's people that are full of shit and there are men and there's people that are full of shit that are women. So there's always going to be that possibility that it's a false rape claim. Which gender has the greatest percentage of people full of shit? No, I'm just fucking with you. It's across the board. It's probably 50% across the board. You know what you think? I was just fucking with you.

Maybe men. Because men, well, no. Because men try harder to fuck women. So maybe we have to be because women are more pursued we have to be more full of shit i think that's more possible i don't know that's a good question that's a good documentary subject what what gender is more full of shit it's a great title yeah it's a great title what gender is more full of shit that's a it's not a bad idea i think you're right i think that we're gonna find it's pretty it's pretty close yeah

it's pretty close but you know the the rape thing thing, as far as like, I think there's way more rape than there is falsely accused, false rape claims. Yeah, and in the spirit of justice, in the spirit of, you know, let 10 guilty men go free, then one innocent man spend a moment being deprived of his liberty. I mean, I understand that. And I got to say, no matter how low the rate is. 2% according to Wikipedia. Yeah. No matter how low that is, the 2% of men that the false claims occur to, it's pretty fucking important to them, I can imagine.

Oh, yeah, man. But in those cases. Doesn't matter if it's one-tenth of 1% if it's pretty fucking important to them i can imagine oh yeah but in but in those cases matter if it's one tenth of one percent if it's you and in those in the vast majority of those cases i believe it has to do with some sort of like you know mental deficiency on the part of the woman it has to do with uh some sort of revenge kind of scenario you know like the motive is like really personal and really obvious um and can usually be quickly proven but as soon as you are accused something there's some cases where you're right. It's strictly a he said, she said.

And you could find yourself in a lot of trouble. And that's obviously not okay. I think the problem is you cannot be. We have a society that I think unfortunately discourages women from reporting, from coming forward. And I think that that's a serious problem because in crimes like this a lot of the people who commit them can continue to commit them the rate of recidivism I think is is such that if they're not being reported you're going to see more victims unfortunately well there's there's also without a doubt there's people that for reason, they don't look at other people as being equal to them.

You know, and that is what allows someone to rape someone. That's what happens in this video. She is a local girl. She goes to Santa Fe Community College as opposed to like, you know, the flagship state school that like the the quote rich out of town kids you know a go-to and they treat her like you know the way they speak to her the way they speak to her and and it's a similar phenomenon in in in the duke lacrosse case is that that woman was black but here this woman who was white in in this in this raw deal case uh but had black children it's i think well what's, what's the famous line from

Bullworth? White people have more in common with black people than they do with rich people. Meaning, the division is not so much black and white. That's kind of a flashy object to divide us. It's poor and affluent. Absolutely. It's the haves and the have-nots. And the poor people get

treated like shit no matter what color. Also, people in that position people that are strippers you know because it's looked down upon as like a seedy career choice of losers right you know so you're allowed to treat her like shit and then she's in a fraternity which is not even a protected environment like an actual strip club and you're dealing with people that are drunk and their judgment's all fucked up because of that. And then, you know, who knows? Plus, you're dealing with developing minds.

And 18-year-old kids that are drunk, they really shouldn't be drunk. They don't know what the fuck they're doing. And on top of that, they've probably been raised by assholes. You know? I mean, there's a good percentage of people are assholes. And these kids, drunk, in some fucking thing,

feeding off of each other getting mentality no yes so pure pressure of that situation is dead fucking tear deadly yeah gang mentality that you see in riots you know gang mentality that you see in behavior that you would never see you're willing to alter your behavior to the point of criminality mm-hmm because of the in outside influence of everybody else doing it. That's like a psychosis. What's going on in the brain when that's happening?

It speaks to our weird, the way that human beings imitate our atmospheres, which is a big part of what we were talking about earlier about culture. You get stuck in certain cultures and cultures where violence is accepted and violence. Like if you live in the Congo, you know, and you're in a tribe and there's a warlord, you know, and you're seeing people shot and killed all the time. Life has no value. AK-47 when you're five. Yeah. I mean, it's just that's their environment.

I have to ask you this because, I mean, you've talked about it a zillion times, but like America's gun culture, that's what everybody says. to ask you this, because you've talked about it a zillion times, but like America's gun culture, that's what everybody says. America's propensity towards violence and proliferation of violence and you don't see this in other countries because you don't see the quantity of guns. Well, it's an issue.

And the celebration of violence, of course, in our media and our entertainment, etc. That's an issue too. Celebration in video games, celebration in all those things are unquestionably influences. However, if you look at the actual numbers of people that have guns, which is fucking staggering, and the actual crimes committed by those guns, it's very small. Low, yeah, absolutely. Which is undeniable, and that's something that people don't like to bring up when they bring up a Newtown massacre or something.

something that people don't like to bring up when they bring up a Newtown massacre or something. Where you have massacres, I believe those are issues of mental health, without a doubt. And I think, you know, I wrote that this country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem and a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem. And I think that that's a real reality when it comes to guns and shooters and mental issues. And also the number of people that are involved in mass shootings that are on psychoactive drugs. Anti-psychotics, anti-depressants. They're taking poison is what they're doing. Who knows?

But correlation does not equal causation, right? So you don't know if those people are crazy already and they're giving them drugs to try to treat them and maybe they would be better off maybe it's getting off those drugs which is often the case the the um um coming down off those drugs the withdrawal effects the withdrawal that causes these people to go crazy there's a lot of issues but you can't deny that it's too fucking easy to get a gun you know you need a driver's license to get a fucking car all you need to do is not be a criminal to get a gun. I mean, I bought a gun before I knew anything about guns. I didn't know how to use them at all.

They just let me have a fucking pistol. And I remember thinking like... You need a permit to have a hot dog stand for crime. You have to have a permit to shovel snow. Endurance. I'm a nice person, so I'm not going to go out and shoot people. But I found it incredibly disturbing that they didn't... All they needed to know that I wasn't a criminal. I didn't commit any violent crimes. And that's it. That's all they needed to know. And truth be wasn't a criminal I didn't commit any violent crimes and that's it that's all they needed to know and truth be told

if you were a criminal went on the street to get it it would be even easier than you walked into because they don't want your driver's license if you're buying it on the street especially in this country at this point the numbers there's the sheer numbers like I've heard it described like trying to get guns out of America is like trying to take salt out of the ocean it's like Jesus Christ like you're gonna get all the salt out of the ocean. It's like, Jesus Christ, you're going to get all the salt out of the ocean? There's more Americans with, or there's more guns, rather, than there are Americans in America. There's more guns than there are people.

That's fucking crazy. There's more than 350 million guns in this country. That is hard to wrap your head around. Well, I got two hands most of us have two hands well I have more guns than I have people so I'm part of the problem but I'm not shooting anybody

you're above average I only have a couple I just don't think that I don't think that the issue is necessarily that there's a lot of guns. The issue to me is we most certainly need a better education program when it comes to the ability to acquire a gun.

The fact that you have to go through this difficult taxing process to get a car. But I think people are afraid that, like they say, that owning a car is a privilege, owning a gun is a right. It's a right that's in the bill. You know what I mean? It's in the Bill of Rights. It's the Second Amendment of the Constitution. It says right to bear arms.

There's people that are legitimately worried for good reason that a lot of people have this knee-jerk reaction when any sort of violent crime goes down to take all the guns away from the people. I don't think that, I don't know, maybe having to take a shooting course is an impediment to your exercising of that right. Gun safety. My family, I've got family in Delaware, and they grew up in gun culture, in a hunting culture. And they're some of the most responsible, coolest, best, you know,

because guns have been completely demystified for them. They're not afraid. They know how to properly use them. And they're the least threatening, coolest, most unassuming people that you can possibly... But they're cool with any type of weapon that you put in front. Not just guns, but knives that they use for hunting. And I was just like, what if we all grew up...

Wouldn't it just be... I think we'd all be nicer to each other, too. We'd all be aware of the power that we possess. We're not just these TV gangsters or whatever. We'd all just be a little bit more cognizant of the fact that we have this, if we choose to, have the power of life and death over somebody, but they also have it over us. So let's live and let live, right? That expression that a well-armed society is a polite society.

And oftentimes that is true, but the aberration, the person who is a polite society. And oftentimes that is true. But the aberration, the person who is not polite and decides to take out the fact that they have... Do you remember that instance in North Hollywood years back when those guys got... They put on bulletproof vests and had all these crazy guns and they robbed a bank? The bank robbery, yeah.

The heat was inspired by it. Fucking crazy, crazy scene. I was doing news radio at the time, and we all went into the break room, and we're all watching it on this television. And we were all just like freaking the fuck out. Like, this is real. This isn't a movie. We're watching a shootout between the cops and these insane people with massive firepower. And those types of scenarios, although incredibly rare, are really legitimately frightening to people for a good reason.

That's what happened in Miami. You remember the war wagon at the Dayland Mall shooting in July of 79 that we opened Cocaine Cowboys with? Oh, yeah. Cops show up at this scene. They have guns on the ground. And to be canon, the reporter said they called them the Dixie Cup generation. They would shoot a gun until it was empty

and then just drop it on the floor and pull out another gun and shoot that. And there were MAC-11s and there were handguns and pistols and automatic pistols

and they were just, and there was shell casings for every single gun on the ground. They left the guns on the ground and then they took off on foot and they abandoned

this war wagon, which was this converted Ford Econoline van that had stenciled on the ground and then they took off on foot and they abandoned this war wagon which was this converted ford econoline van that had stenciled on the side happy time party supply and a phone number and then the other side it said happy supply time and a different phone number on the other side not really good with the you know the incognito thing here and in the back they had flak jackets that they had put that they had kind of like wallpapered it with so that it would be they like have reinforced bulletproof armor and more guns of every shotguns and machine guns so it's like the punishers war wagon the cops show up with their

six shooters by the way because that's what they were carrying in miami in 1979 and they flipped the fuck out and there was a every time someone saw a 40-kano line van on the streets, people were calling 911. The cops wouldn't show up. They didn't know what the hell to do because they knew that the fear was you're going to pull one of these over. The back's going to open up, and they're just going to empty on you. And before you can even grab your pop, pop, pop gun. And that was when they started to put together the Sentac 26 26 before there you go there's the back of it right there and and um they put together this uh centac was a central central tactical unit that was made up of multiple local and and federal

agencies that would work together the this history of which traces back to the untouchables because that was like we're going to combine you know take the best of the local guys and the best of the federal guys and put them together towards a kind of common, very specific, goal-oriented mission and end. And so you had these guys who got together, because originally they were called the, it's in Reloaded, the Special Homicide Investigative Team. Or as they call themselves, the Shit Squad. Special Homicide Investigative Team. And they had to deal with all the Wando's that were turning up. special homicide investigative team

and they had to deal with all the Wando's that were turning up because they'd get they'd get an oh unidentified Hispanic male

automatic bullet fire is it 25% of the bodies in the morgue in that time in Miami had automatic

wounds from automatic weapons I had a friend who was doing his residency he's a doctor and he did his residency in Miami

dude that was the best place to do it oh my god he told me some shit and showed me some shit when we were growing up. You know, I was, he's older than me. And, uh, when he was, uh, showing us these images that he had saved from guys with light bulbs up their asses and bullet holes. If you were in the trauma industry, the medical business, the law enforcement business, the homicide business, the journalism business, like Miami was the place to be. Oh, it's craziness.

I know a guy who was a trauma doctor at Jackson Memorial Hospital. That's our one major trauma center where all the bullet, you get airlifted to Jackson. That's where you go. So he was working one night, and this was after the Mariel boat lift. Think Scarface. You had all of these hardened criminals. Ejected from Cuba. The rate of rape on Miami Beach quadrupled in months.

I mean, they were raping little old Jewish ladies, Holocaust survivors, who made it out of Germany but could not survive the Mariel Boatlift in Miami. And they all went to Miami Beach because it was a slum and because it reminded them of Havana. It looked like Cuba. Miami Beach, like the seawall and everything looks like cuba so um and and they would just kill you for nothing they'd be like i like your bicycle give me your bicycle no boom and just and like and then leave the bike to like it like just crazy homicidal lunatics um and uh they uh one got one day a mario mario lito comes in with a gunshot wound. And the doctor says to him, he said, you're a very lucky man. Had the bullet struck you a centimeter or so over here, you would have bled out and died on the scene in minutes, if not seconds.

The guy gets discharged, leaves the hospital. Within days, he gets another Mariel gunshot victim with a wound in exactly the same spot he told the other guy about and that guy died and his belief always was he never could prove it but that the guy he had told basically where to shoot the other guy that this was a retribution shooting for the other guy who had been shot but like that was just par for the course and in miami the girl who cuts my hair a lady who cuts my hair, you know how you get your hair cut, you say goodbye, you put the tip in the pocket, so she would go home at night in the 80s and she'd turn her pockets inside out to get all the folded bills and this and that.

One day she finds a little baggie with white powder in it that one of the ladies just kissed her goodbye and slipped it in her pocket as a tip. She said, I was so naive, I said to my friend, what the hell is this? And she said, what it is is worth more than the tip that you would have gotten from the same ladies. Wow. That's ridiculous.

That's our Emmy. That's our Emmy. Keep it. You can keep that place. I visit. You're Los Angeles. You can have it. I visit and I get the fuck out as soon as I can.

Billy, thank you very much, man. It's a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. Anytime. Thank you. And the documentary Dogfighting, D-A-W-G, comes out. Dashfight.com, coming March 12th. March 12th.

And Cocaine Cowboys 1 and 2. Don't listen to him. 2 is good. It's very good. Don't apologize for that anymore. It's now streaming. Now streaming on Netflix. It's excellent.

It's excellent. Thank you. It's one of the best documentaries ever that captures the madness of cocaine, really, and violence and the drug war. It's just an amazing documentary. Thank you very much. Billy Corbin, ladies and gentlemen.

We'll see you next week. Good night, everybody. Much love. Thank you.