The Joe Rogan Experience - #628 - Garry Tonon & Eddie Bravo

Episode Date: March 21, 2015

Garry Tonon is a World Champion jiu jitsu black belt. Eddie Bravo is a jiujitsu black belt, music producer, and author. He also hosts his own podcast called Eddie Bravo Radio. Garry will be competeing at Eddie Bravo Invitational: EBI3 on March 22, 2015 with more info & PPV access available @ www.eddiebravoinvitational.com

Hey everybody, this is a very special podcast, a very special Saturday afternoon podcast. We're watching an old fight from 1954 that's supposed to be a pro wrestling match with Gary Tonin, one of the best jiu-jitsu artists in America today, one of the hot young fucking killers of grappling, and of course my brother Eddie Bravo. Yo. Yo, holla. And we're watching this video that we found, all of us found this on the underground. Someone posted it.

I'll have to give the dude props. I forget his name. But it's Kimura, the guy who the shoulder lock that Kimura was named after because he used it on Elio Gracie back in the, what was that, like the 40s or something like that? Man, I don't know. It could be the 20s. I don't know when that was. I wouldn't know.

It's only 1962. I wouldn't know. It was a the 20s. I wouldn't know. It's only 1962. I wouldn't know. It was a long-ass time ago. Black and white era. Point being, he did some pro wrestling. And he did a pro wrestling match with this guy. I think I'm saying this right. Rikidozan.

Rikidozan. I hope I'm saying that right. I'm just reading. I never heard anybody say it. That's Rikidozan. I hope I'm saying that right. I'm just reading. I never heard anybody say it. That's a big Japanese dude. He's huge. He's huge. And this match starts out like this. Starts out a pro wrestling match where they're like, you know, they're like doing a bunch of stuff. They're kind of allowing each other to push each other around. And they're somewhere in the match. It becomes like a war, and the big dude, right there, he kicked to the balls. Look at this.

Boom, right hand, and this just turns into a fight. This is 100% a fight now. Oh, yeah. He's looking around panicking. He's like, what the fuck's going on? He's panicking. He tries to clinch, and this is real now. This is a real single.

Like, he's fucked up. Look, the referee says, don't do that. And boom, he punches him in the face. He's poking him in the eyes. He kicks him. Oh, shit. He kicks him again. Wait for this, though.

This gets even crazier. Look at this. Open hand slaps. He soccer kicks him, man. He headlocks him. Boom. Look at this shit. This is totally real now.

Boom. Look at that. Oh, shit. I mean, he's fucked up right now. And this dude is still beating his ass. Oh, my God. The referee just lets it go. Oh, shit. I mean, he's fucked up right now. And this dude is still beating his ass. Oh, my God. Ref just lets it go. Oh, my God.

Referee doesn't know if it's fake or not, I guess. I don't know. I mean, check this out. Here's the finishing combo. The referee looks at his eyes. You're fine. Back in. Oh, shit.

Oh, yeah, he's great. I think the ref's afraid he'll kick his ass, too. Walk in the park. And look at that left hand that he dropped him with. 100% legit. 100% legit. 100% legit. Back that up just a little bit, Jamie, to that last combination. Right about there.

I mean, this, you don't fake shit like this. Like, when he stood up, when he saw, well, it was a little bit before this, Jamie, that he soccer kicked him. Go a little bit before this. Yeah, when he was against the ropes. Right there. Right there, Jamie. That's good. See, this is when the dude is desperately scrambling,, when he was against the ropes. Right there, Jamie. That's good.

See, this is when the dude is desperately scrambling, trying to take him to the ground. And Rikido's on. Again, I hope I'm saying that right. He's beating that ass. He's mostly doing open hands, but he's kicking him, too. And then he kicks him again. Boom.

And the bitch slapped right to the ear. Did you see? Kimura walked to the ref and looked at him and said, dude, what the fuck is going on here? Look at that. Boom. I mean, that is, you cannot fake head kicks like that. That's 100% legit.

This guy is getting the fuck beat out of him. It's crazy, man. I mean, he gets up. He's already like really badly fucked up. The referee checks his eye. Oh my God. Like, dude, don't worry about your eye. He fucked up.

The referee checks his eye. Like, dude, don't worry about your eye. Dude, there's a good chance that that knockout was just him like, I don't know how to end this. Let me just drop to the fucking floor and pretend like I can't breathe. Maybe, right? That last left hand holding on to the ropes. It worked. He got fucked up, man.

It's so crazy. I've never seen anything like that before. Stay down, dude. Stay down. Stay down. Where it starts out just a pro wrestling match and turns into full-on valetudo. See, this is so cool. We were talking about this before the podcast started, that it's so cool that shit like this exists, and we can watch some historical moments in martial arts.

This is a historical moment. Wow. I wonder what the aftermath was. Did he want a rematch or something? No, he got murdered. Who got murdered? The big guy. Because of this?

Probably, huh? That's the story that, you know, that's the legend. How much of it is true, who knows? You know what? I would lean to believe that. Yeah. Because that guy got his ass thoroughly kicked. He got double-crossed on TV, and he could have died. Yeah.

Yeah, he could have died. He was getting soccer kicked hard. I can definitely see Kimura having some deep connections with the Yakuza. And they said, we got to kill this motherfucker. That's it. No rematch. No grappling match. No submission only.

No metal Morris. Kill this motherfucker. Or just hit himself, killing him. Yeah. Just kill him quick. Murder him. Make it ugly. The dude who put the video up is Ian Paisley is my hero.

That's his name on the underground. So thanks to that dude. That was one of the most brutal ass kickings ever. Of all time time caught on video and there's another dude who posted something his name is P-O-L-O-N-I-S-T-A

Polonista I guess you would say and he wrote a whole breakdown of what happened and apparently this Rikidozon guy you know Kimura was saying

that Rikidozon that he got taken for greed and the money and the fame. He lost his mind and just started beating the fuck out of the dude. And so apparently they stabbed him with a urine-soaked knife. That's what the story is. This is so crazy. Wow.

What does that do? He died like days later. I thought you were supposed to drink it. We ran out of the poison tip. Maybe own your own. Yeah, if someone else's piss gets inside of you, you're fucked. It could be. Well, you know they do those poop things where they take poop and they transmit fecal matter,

they transplant it to someone's intestinal tract, and apparently it's supposed to be good for your body, to get that bacteria, like somebody else's bacteria, in your body through a fecal transplant. Makes sense. Kind of, but not really, right? Yeah, yeah. You wouldn't want to think that the health of your... You think I'm joking.

You think I'm joking. You do. There's no waiting list for that shit. Kidneys, yes. Kidneys, yes. You wait two years for kidney. Liver, shit. Dude, you better be white.

That's so true. You know what I mean? That's so true. Shit what I mean that's so true shit you can all have everybody give it to you you got fresh shit this shit

you'd be at the operating table they got fresh shit yeah the doctors just shit right in your face great doctor shit they don't even need to go anywhere

you get like vegan shit is the best that's right no added hormones no added hormones but you're tired all the time. You need naps. You guys gave me some bum shit.

Vegan shit will kill you. Yeah. Just doesn't have the right amino acid chains. So this guy, Rikidozon, if you watch that, that might be one of the first ever double crosses that's on like video. I don't think there's anything like that on World Star Hip Hop even. Seriously, think about that. It's so true.

It's so clear. Even though it's black and white and 100 years ago, you see the strikes clearly and there's lights. That's what one of the guys. Turn that into a new Thug Life video. Yeah, that's it. Oh, someone's definitely going to. Oh, yeah. Sunglasses will drop down when he was on,

when they got his hands up in the air. For real, man. Yeah, that's a ruthless, ruthless beatdown. Not quite as ruthless as that Suge Knight fucking thing. Holy shit. Oh, that was horrible. Fuck. That's horrible, man.

How horrible was it to watch? People kept telling me about it, and I just didn't get to it. And then finally someone said, dude, sit down, watch this shit. I go, okay, okay. It's brutal. Dude, we watched it on the air. Yeah, we watched it live. Like, not live, but the first time I saw it, and it was unbelievable.

It's hard to imagine that someone could do that. Just ran those dudes over. He's saying that now that the video's out, now people are going to see the truth that it was self-defense. Whoa. That's what he said. Oh, my God. He's crazy.

That's what he said. He said one guy was coming after him with a gun. So he had to run him over because of the gun. It seems like there was a gun in that video. I mean, or something that the guy took out and put in the gun spot behind your lower back. I mean, does somebody ever do that with a chrome? Like, man, dude got ran over, let me get his comb. Yeah, yeah.

And stick it in the crack of your butt. No, you only put guns back there. When a guy does that and he sticks something behind their back, it's owning a gun. It's never a cell phone. It's never anything else. It's a fucking gun. That's it. It's a gun. Nobody puts anything back there but a gun. What the fuck else do you hold

behind your ass cheeks? Between your ass cheeks and your pants. You do the belts when I give promotions. I hide it behind my butt and I just show up. You do. You do. That's the only thing. I was going to promote him, your honor. He'd been training four years straight, three times a week, your honor.

Three times a week. The documents here, it was three times a week for two years. He was due for his brown belt. Yeah, well, he ran over the brown belt too then. He ran over that dude. He ran over that dude. He ran over that dude. And that dude apparently lived.

The second guy died. The second guy ran over his head. Yes. The guy that went flying off screen. Yeah. Fuck. Fuck, man. Yeah.

I mean, the story's about that. Those are going to go on for eternity. The rap world. Holy shit. If you're in that rap music world the more famous you get it's like Like in China the more famous you get in China the triads take over you know what I mean They're like you got to pay us son. We're responsible for this shit You know we own the movie houses or whatever and in the rap world you

The look the TI is always walking around the gun. He went to jail. It's like people are killing each other. Can't get too big, man. It's so crazy how much the rap world is attached to organized crime or crime or violence. And it's okay because we accepted N.W.A. N.W.A. was not real. It was like Slayer pretending they were satanic. N.W.A., dudes pretending to be ruthless gangsters. And that album, you can't even do an album like that now.

They rape a 14-year-old preacher's daughter in the drive-in in one of the songs. They're pulling a train on her, and they're singing about it. It's a song about that. And then a song about killing hookers, One Less Bitch I Gotta Worry About. Yeah. They have little acting scenes in between every song there's a scene where they pull up next to a hooker she goes hey what you want what you want to do what you want to do come in oh what you want and he goes let me go let me go shut up shoot that bitch shoot that bitch let me go let me go shoot that bitch that's part that's before one less bitch yeah yeah you know what i mean that's

okay so we accepted all that shit so not just accepted they sold it yeah and it was huge Shoot that bitch. That's before one less bitch. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's okay. So we accepted all that shit. Not just accepted. They sold it. Yeah. And it was huge. Huge. And none of it was true.

It was just a made up story. It was like The Exorcist. It's like the director and the writer, they're not satanic. Do you think that doing that, though, just opened the door to real thugs? Like how many real thugs? Have you seen Trinidad James? You know who that is? No.

Dude, pull up Trinidad James, all gold, everything. You tell me if this character is real or not, but this is, it's the craziest thing ever. Trinidad James. Dude, you're going to, it's incredible. He's going to be your new favorite rapper. Okay. The name of the album, the name of the song is All Gold Everything.

He's going to take over Nas for me? Come on, son. Nas has got my sweet spot. Anyways. What's that? I got to cleverly play this. You got to cleverly play this? Why?

So we don't get yanked off the air. Okay. Well, just don't show the video at all just show all of our faces like because it just go back and forth but let's just let us without the video well we'll watch the video we'll watch the video we'll watch the video all gold everything oh this is the explicit version let me check this out. Barbecuing. They have guns right away. Oh, my goodness. That's Trinidad.

I love this guy. I love his nails. Look how long his nails are. That guy ain't picking up shit. Gold all in my watch. Look at his nails. He's getting French tips on his nails. He does.

Wow. on his nails he does wow look at all that cash this is like something you're acting yeah it is you need to start making videos like this to get more street cred in the jiu jitsu world is this the real dude you think that's my question is this guy for real Is this the real dude you think that's my question is this guy for real? Bobby murder in this crew they all got arrested for this stuff He's got a puppy this whole crew Bobby Schmurda puppy bling her game puppy swag evens out the cold Jamie what he saying federal gun charges on him for what they're talking about in their songs. They went and looked at it. Oh, that's these guys? Not these guys, but there are people like this.

Not in the same crew or anything like that. This is just another famous rapper. But not these guys? No, no, no. Oh, okay. Yeah, I had heard that recently some guy is in jail. Some guy from San Diego. He's like a rapper and he's flashing like gang signs.

He's got no criminal history at all. That's a different thing, too. That's a different thing, too?'s uh that's a wonderful video i like his style i like his teeth and he's got the puppy that's the best thing all that but he's got the cutest thing it's a pit bull puppy though yeah it's to balance out all the the gold all right have you seen that white kid with tattoos on his face calls himself stitches no oh i'm gonna find you your new favorite song okay that sounds good here's your favorite song here's your favorite song this is breaking your face this is my favorite stupid song look it's got five million hits america is in trouble okay he's a 18 year old rapper

from miami and his name is stitches Well he's got a tattoo on his face Of stitches across his mouth Like the Joker Is he white or black? White as fuck He's a white guy Yeah man Okay white people representing

It's 2015 He's got a dope car I'll put that brick in your face I love this dude Oh my god Holy shit He's got an AK-47 tattooed on his face I put that brick in your face now what you gonna do with it this is Florida that's what this is this is my new favorite rapper. I told you. He's better than Trinidad Jam. I told you.

He's got all platinum teeth or gold. It's hard to tell. He's got assault rifles. He's got a machine gun and assault rifles. Exactly. He needs a tank. Tank and Wolverines. I love selling blow. He's a hell raiser.

I love smelling blow. Selling. Oh. I love selling blow. He's running around with guns. It's spreading cocaine all over the house. Not only is he saying I love selling blow, but it's flashing the words. Yeah, it's crazy.

I love, like, that was important. We have to make sure that the audience understands that. I don't think it's clear enough. You know what he's doing? I think there was arguments about it. Yeah. You know what he's doing, man?

He's like, okay, everybody thinks they're crazy. Watch this. Watch this. You think you fucking topped the crazy Olympics, motherfucker? I'm going to tattoo guns on my face and stitches. I'm only 18 and I'm just gonna say it.

I love selling blow. That's what I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna print it across the screen. I'm gonna have a gun in every scene. Wow. Wow. He doesn't even have any white friends. What's up with that? He's racist.

No, you're better off. This is the way to go. There's no white guys in this video. He's the only white guy. White guys are lame. They're getting away. I can't even spot one white guy. Except for him.

He probably hates white people. Now what you going to do with it? That's what you're going to be saying. It's going to be all day. It's going to be in your head. Now what you going to do with it? Now what you going to do with it? It's going to be my new tagline after I submit people.

Yeah, now what you going to do with it? That's rude, Gary Tonin. How dare you? First you win and then you stick it in your face. The only other white guy was the Hellraiser guy. You know what I mean? I think that was him. I think that was him with a mask on.

Really? I think that was supposed to be him. Oh, okay. I'm just, my interpretation of the art. Yeah, I think he should have stayed 100% black. Should he have used someone else? Hellraiser kind of brought it back to white people because black people don't like Hellraiser.

It should have been Spawn or something, you know? That's a very good point because Hellraiser was a white guy in the movie. And black people hate scary movies. Generally speaking, I'm sure. Did I know a black guy who loves scary movies? Generally. Yeah, as all stereotypical things are, generalizations about a race of people.

That's a generalization. Yeah, general. By nature. You've got to be able to generalize. You've got to be able to generalize. I love how that's saying it. You gotta be able to generalize. You know what I mean? Because if you can't generalize, then you can't make any fucking points.

That's so true. You know what I mean? You can't make any points. Like, no, I know one guy that doesn't do that. I'm like, yes, I know a guy too, but generally. Jesus Christ. That's one of those things where before you say what you just said, you go, yeah, I know this might sound a little bit racist, but. Yeah, or I but you ever see that twitter feed i'm not racist it's all

people saying racist shit they go i'm not racist but then they say some racist shit like what's the most racist i'll find can you can you read some racist shit and not be accused of being racist we'll find out i don't think so so. Definitely not. Because if someone said, if someone was telling a story about some racist white guy who said the N-word to a black guy and then a black guy hit him or something, can you tell that story and use that word?

Or do you have to say N-word again when describing the story? It's a tough one, right? Because Howard Stern just says the word. When he talks about someone else saying it. Hold on a second. Look at this one right here, Jamie. Stop says the word because when he talks about someone else hold on a second look at this one right here jamie stop right there i'm not racist but will not stand to see my country attacked by black whiners that feel sorry for themselves quick

quit breaking the law ass oh this is these are real tweets wellem well put he's got a point what a fucking moron there's a difference between an African American and a N word yeah you don't even say the word I'm Mexican so I can actually get away with it

if I say N-I-G-G-A I can't do the other one but you can't even say it. You can't not even call on someone yet. Not calling a person a nigger, but saying the word. Like me saying it right now. You're like, huh? You can't say it.

How come you can't say it? He just did. It's racist. It's racist. No, I think it's racist to call someone. They have a word. You know what I mean? They have a word.

It's no big deal. Mexicans got one, too. You can't say wet? They have a word. It's no big deal. Mexicans got one too. You can't say wetback. Really? We'd get pissed off too. What if you're like reading Tom Sawyer to like a group of small children, you know what I mean? If a guy called me a wetback, that would be very offensive. That doesn't seem that.

It's not quite as strong as the N word, but it's up there. It's like bronze medal. You know what I mean? and n is like the gold metal year after year not even being racist but walking behind black people in the hallways is the last place i ever want to be no no that's exactly what you're being what the fuck not even being racist oh my god i'm literally i literally am not racist at all, but I don't get why a lot of black people feel the need to be ignorant literally all the time. Wow. Wow.

He's talking about Trinidad James. There's a double. Double literally and no period. I'm not feeling that sentence. I'm not racist, but what is it? Caucasians are evil as hell. SMH. I got a real issue with SMH.

What does that mean again? Shaking my head. Damn. Just stop. Stop. Cut the shit. Especially white people. Oh my God, look at this one i'm not racist but justin please stop

hanging with black people they're making you too ghetto people think you're trying to be black you know what seth rogan said about justin bieber no he said on howard stern he said uh that uh he thought he was gonna meet justin he thought okay he's gonna actually be a cool guy watch he expected me to be a cool guy but seth threw him under the bus and he said he was going to meet Justin. He thought, okay, he's going to actually be a cool guy. Watch. He expected him to be a cool guy, but Seth threw him under the bus and he said he was I don't know the exact word, so I don't, just

the opposite of cool. Not a nice guy. A douchebag. Kind of. But you know what? I thought about that. He got so famous so young and he's really fucking good looking. He's a guest model now. He's on Sunset,

and he's laying with the chick for gas or something like that. The guy's a really good looking guy. If he wasn't a musician, he would still get mad chicks. How is a guy like that not going to be a douchebag? Impossible. It is tough he's gonna line

up against him impossible everybody's kissing his ass all day he's really good looking he can he's very talented i mean his songs i would never buy his cds but the dude can sing really good he could play guitar he shreds on drums he's been a musician his whole life he's actually very talented but there's no way that guy's going to make it through the teens. And now he's 21, 22. 21 now, he just... But how are you going to get there through all that and not be a douchebag? It's impossible.

There was a recent scientific study done that proves that assholes get more chicks. John Danaher just cued us into this one. I believe it. They did a study. I'm not 100% sure where or when, but they had women analyze photos of different pictures of men doing different facial expressions,

and the men with scowls and their chest puffed out, essentially what you would look at somebody and be like, oh yeah, that dude's an asshole, right off your perception. Those got higher ratings in terms of good looks than the guys that were smiling and looked happy. So it proves now scientifically that assholes don't wear chicks.

Yeah, but those studies are all, who are the people that were in those studies? That would make a huge difference. If it was young people, older people, that could make a huge difference. Yeah, I haven't done a full analysis of the study yet. I would want to know, right? Like whether it's college kids that are young and don't know any better

or whether it's, you know, like women in their 30s. I would like to know like where the drop-off point is where chicks get tired of dudes with their chest sticking out. Yeah. You know, that,

for whatever reason, might be appealing to an 18-year-old. I think girls like that in the beginning and then they end up fucking hating it. It's the thing that kills them.

You know what I mean? They were attracted to the barbarian and the fucking wild savage, but then now that they got him, they're like, damn, I wish he wasn't such a fucking savage, because other bitches like that, too. So then they end up hating that shit, right? It could be. Yeah, but it's okay, because that asshole's just going to move on to another chick that's totally okay with that.

For a while, until it wears off. At all. That asshole's not looking to settle down with like one chick yeah, you know Depends which asshole well you know what I think I think we're still stuck with the echoes of some ancient DNA I think we still have for whatever reason We still have all the instincts that people had back when you had to worry about marauding hordes coming over the top of the hill with swords and knives. You had to be kind of an asshole back then.

And you had to fuck more than one chick because your kids are all going to get killed by arrows and fucking flying bodies and catapults. That's a good point. It's a very good point. If you're living back then, man, the odds of your DNA spreading... They used to have fertility rituals where they would That's a good point. It's a very good point if you're living back then man you had the odds of your DNA spreading I mean they used to they used to have fertility rituals where they would hope that people got pregnant the exact opposite of what we

Do today today? Everybody's like please get her fucking period please and back then they were and they had rituals And by the time we were in our 20s and away before we had kids Those people back in the day like we're all our DNA came from they were on their way Out the door that they not only had kids they were getting old They were gonna be dead by the time they're in their 30s. It'd probably be killed Or disease or something so that crazy the reason why we're here is because the same reason why? Women would like a guy that's aggressive or an asshole because she thinks that guy could protect her

Why women would like a guy that's aggressive or an asshole because she thinks that guy could protect her It's this bizarre fucking trick that nature's played on us thousands of years of evolution Technologically and historically and how much information we have in the way we could communicate with each other still doesn't work still doesn't Still isn't totally stop that monkey fuck gene That's still deep down in the back cuz chicks want some guy who could defend the castle is that sugar your personal study what's that I don't not my case study no I wish I would I wish I'm working on becoming more and more of an asshole I'm trying to get better at it I'm not you there yet. Keep heel-hooking people

that have fucking ACL reconstruction. I'll do my best, you know, man. I'm chasing that dream because it's clear that they're more successful with women for sure. Donaher's a wizard, that guy. He is such an interesting dude, such an interesting guy to talk to,

such a smart guy. Yeah, I actually don't train there for the technique at all. It's just for the stories that he tells us. So you were saying before the podcast that Danaher, you went to Danaher's to get a private or something like that at first or to train with him, and then he introduced you to his leg lock system? Oh, yeah, I mean, just when I started training with John,

at first it was just on an inconsistent basis, like once a week or so. A lot of MMA fighters come to a Monday afternoon class, so I was going in there, and that was when I was in college, so I didn't have time to go over all the time. But once I started going there consistently, I got a chance to see kind of the strategy that he teaches. Leglocks aren't his main focus focus but i think he's made huge innovations in the leg lock game to the point where like you know when he teaches it seems like

that's like his main thing you know but uh yeah no it's definitely went over like our whole leg lock game me and uh you know eddie um cummings eddie cummings yeah um both of our leg lock games just stem from that for sure you know what i I mean? He's such a smart dude. Yeah. He's just so on the ball about so many things, about all sorts of different aspects of life. He's a very interesting perspective. Somebody recently asked me what was the best advice I'd ever been given,

and I continually preach that this is it and that John always tells us never to get married, but he lists four reasons why you could possibly get married. These are four circumstances, all of which have to exist. Otherwise, marriage just isn't an option. Okay, the first. All at the same time, these four? Yeah, all four.

Otherwise, and then the offer's on the table. It's not like you definitely have to get married. It's like, all right, we understand why. So the first is that the woman has to be between the ages of 18 and 25. Okay. The second is that you have to be over the age of 55. The third is that you have to have no money. And the fourth is that she has to have tons of money.

Otherwise, it's just not even a question. Don't get that stupid decision. That's hilarious. Not even in the wheelhouse. Oh, my God. That's funny. That is hilarious Not even in the wheelhouse Oh my god that's funny That is hilarious And I think he recently added some innovations to that theory Like the woman has to be an infomaniac

Or something like that He keeps making it harder and harder to get married As we go along I would love to see Donaher debate like an angry woman On those points So he's not married I'm sure he's done that many many times But on those points

So he's not married. I'm sure he's done that many, many times. But on those points? Yeah. So he's not married. Yeah. I don't see that happening anytime soon. Is he? Does he have a girlfriend? What's that?

Does he have a girlfriend? Man, we don't know anything about his personal life. That's too personal. No, no. Honestly, even if I don't, we would never. We're not.

Would you consider him a player? What's that? Would you consider him a player? I can't answer any questions like that. I don't, we would never we're not, I don't consider him a player what's that? Would you consider him a player? I can't answer any questions like that I don't know, but I just I'll tell you this, this motherfucker's kind of you guys think we're like best friends with him because we trade with him all the time, we know nothing about this guy as a human being

you know, just like the little bits of pieces of stories, we never hang out with him, none of that stuff he's an enigma for sure, like what he does once he steps off the mat is he disappears into the ether as far as i'm concerned i have no clue he was a phil he was a philosophy student right when he started uh yeah training in jujitsu yeah yeah gotta get him on the podcast super smart guy yeah that would be an insane podcast yeah he'd be great i would definitely love to have that meanwhile gary you're competing tomorrow at the Eddie Bravo Invitational

here in LA. And it's at the Orpheum, the Orpheum Theater. Downtown LA, the Orpheum. Amazing, amazing place to have. Starts at 4. Doors open at 3. The pay-per-view starts at 4. It's going to be on budovideos.com slash EBI.

$14.99. And if you, even if you don't train, if you're thinking about training, you're thinking like, man, maybe I should do something. You watch how fun it is. Watch how exciting it is. I think that the only reason why jiu-jitsu and submission grappling the way you're doing it on your show, the only reason why that's not on television is just people aren't, they're not accustomed to it. Like you're accustomed to having golf on TV. So you sit there and watch golf. Or you're accustomed to having cricket in some parts of the world.

Like, try watching cricket. You ever be in England? Yeah. Hit the channel and cricket's on. You're like, what the fuck are you doing? I tried watching it a couple times just to see if I could figure it out by watching it. And I'm like, nope.

I don't know why they keep running that way. John told us a cool history about cricket. There used to be a guy that was known. So at first, they were only throwing, like, you know, 70-mile-an-hour pitches. And they started to increase it up to, like, you know, in the 90s, in the 100-mile-an-hour pitches. They started to increase it up to in the 90s in the 100-mile-an-hour pitch range. In cricket, you're allowed to purposefully throw the ball at the person that's batting. So these guys would just wail people in the face, and they were just known for that.

They became famous for just smashing people in the face with pitches. How does that benefit you if you're hitting a— What's that? How is that good i guess i guess if you hit the guy and like you know him up enough it's gonna be hard for him to hit the ball and yeah i don't know i don't know how that works man the guy hitting the ball have all the gear on who has the gear oh yeah they see this is back when they didn't even really have that much gear too oh really they weren't even allowed to wear like helmets or anything like that it It just smashed.

Here's the question. Why would you not try to hit the guy every fucking time? I think that's what they were trying to do. I think that's why you have a giant wide paddle. It's more of a defensive tool than an offensive tool. In that circumstance. Aim for the head every time. So you think it was better that paddle worked better back when people

were only throwing 60- 70 miles an hour. But now they're like major league pitch. You ever seen a guy throw a fastball, like a major league fastball? It's kind of terrifying. On TV? It's insane. I've seen it live. It's kind of terrifying.

The speed a guy can throw a ball. It's kind of like, you go, whoa. When you swing it, it's your guessing. It's like, in that area. Well, you're hoping that he's aiming for, you know what I mean, a particular area so you can guess. Who was the guy that died and then they started instituting those helmets? He's a famous baseball player.

He got hit in the, oh, he might not have died. He might have got, like, really fucked up and was never the same again. I believe he played for the Red Sox, but it was when I was a kid. This guy got hit with a ball and, like, really fucked up, and his career was done. He was never the same again I believe he played for the Red Sox but it was when I was a kid this guy got hit with a ball and it really fucked up and was his career was done he was never the same again I remember thinking man like one ball can do that you can get hit with one ball and you're done what the fuck was that I don't know it was a it was a it was a famous case. Wade Boggs. He died later. No, that's a different guy. He died later.

Fuck. There's probably some sports fans right now screaming, you got the whole fucking story wrong, faggot. You got the whole story wrong. That's not, you don't even like baseball. You got the whole story wrong. My point being, if jujitsu was on TV, if they got to see some wild matches, like especially one of the things I appreciate about watching your match,

I got exposed to you by Eddie. The first one I saw was you and Krohn. Yes. We talked about that shit. We talked about it for like an hour. God damn, that was an exciting match. Woo! That was two dudes, two like just razorarp assassins trying to chop each other down.

Man, what a match. Just what a match. That was incredible, you know? The first time I met you was at that seminar, right? In Florida? Were you at that seminar in Florida? Florida, no. I don't think so.

You know, what ended up happening was the reason why he did EBI 1 was originally I was going to do the Sub Only Worlds. That's what it was going to be. S-W-O. That's what it was going to be. And Scotty from On the Mat, he was on board. He goes, dude, that's a great idea. Let's do it. Let me be a sponsor.

And he goes, but can I get my boy Gary Tonin in there for sure? Because we were going to do a 170, the first one, sub only world, 170, 60 man bracket. And I hadn't even heard of you. I don't keep track of the top jujitsu guys. I really don't. Yeah, I don't do a good job at it either. So I can barely keep track of the guys in the UFC. And he said, I got to get Gary Tonin.

And I go, well, what I'm trying to do is get the best submission guys. I don't care about the best IBJJF points guys. I don't want points guys. I want submission guys. Because he's good. I go, okay, you sure? Okay.

I was going to put him in as a favorite. I didn't know this guy. So Sub Only Worlds, we had investors interested, and then it fell through. And then by the time I was ready to start pushing it again, I decided Victor got involved. Victor Davila from the UFC. He's a Spanish commentator Spanish Joe Rogan. He got involved said Let me be the invest. Let me produce it and let's call Eddie Bravo Invitational So and I thought hmm and because he wanted to wanted to call that for Recognition he doesn't people would know right away and it was his idea EBI was his idea

I was like calling it my name? Are you sure? But then as you think with a business mind, you think, okay, that is a good idea. Let me put myself out there. And I was, you know, we were going to do MetaMorse was already in the works and it'd be perfect. My name would be back. We could boom, we could piggyback off that, you know? So I thought it was a good strategy.

It's a great strategy. I have a well-established name already to try and build up something else so much harder. Yeah. So the very first one, we did 170, and we did featherweights, too. We were doing UFC weights. And Gary, of course, you know, he was going to be in sub only,

and Scotty on the mat was involved, and he said, my boy Gary, you got to put him in. And by that time, BJJ Kumite was out, and I remembered who he was. That was the guy. That's Scotty Nelson's boy. So then went to Abu Dhabi 2013, and I remember the first time we met there, we were at the hotel lobby. And I still didn't know who you were.

You were Vinny Magalhaes. Yeah, me and Vinny sat there. I was like, hey, guys. I didn't know who he was. And then I go, oh, shit, you're Gary. And then he goes on. It was of the greatest abu dhabi even though you didn't get the gold medal it was one of the greatest performances because that fight with crone was absolutely incredible and then after that after you almost pulled it off but he ended up finishing you that's what made it crazy too you know that's hicks and son and hickson's coaching but after that you did

the absolute you're 175 pounds you went against Bouchesha and Cyborg and those guys couldn't tap you you were going after them yeah I mean Jesus Christ this is the guy that just almost look at him in the absolute the smallest dude in the absolute he gets the biggest he gets the two champions Cyborg won the absolute and Bouchesha won the heavyweight class and Boucher won the Heavyweight. Heavyweight class, yeah. So they fought twice in the finals. One time Boucher won, one time Cyborg won.

So that's crazy in itself. But he went against both of them. God damn, Cyborg's giant. He's a big dude. He's a big guy. Yeah. You were going after him, too. Man, it has to be like 230 plus at least. Yeah, when he was doing that metamorphs match with Shaw

I was like this guy is thick yeah He's really strong super technical really good off his back and then boom after that like holy shit He's got some ridiculous guard was he call it tornado tornado guard. I've seen him in videos It's amazing tornado guard is that what it's called especially with the geese amazing He's he's one of the bigger guys that started to move like a lighter guy when it comes to jiu-jitsu. It used to just be like two big fat guys falling all over each other. For a big guy, for a dude over 230, there's nobody that has. I haven't seen.

I mean, I'm sure there's guys in Sao Paulo somewhere that are just as good. I don't have my finger on all that. But what I've seen out of the famous guys, Cyborg, as a big dude, nobody moves. I don't see anybody moving like him. His half guard's insane. I can't even play his half. I'm like, that's a whole different kind of half guard. I got a couple students that are on the case.

I'm like, go study him. We're going to eventually bring that shit in. That's on the table because it's working at a high level. He gets under dudes and with his hamstrings fucking launches it's crazy we should call him by his name because everybody thinks cyborg is the chick who fights for him yes yes yes is roberto abreu yeah there's a jujitsu abreu there's a jujitsu cyborg and then a mms cyborg the jujitsu cyborg is a super yok guy and there's a lot of great videos of him doing strength and conditioning work online, too. That motherfucker is stupid strong.

And there's another cyborg that does jiu-jitsu and MMA, too. What? Yes. This is insane. That's the guy that Nick Diaz armbarred. Remember that? Oh. That guy's cyborg, too.

That's right. Well, that's Cyborg's husband. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, ex-husband. Yeah. Yeah, there's a bunch of stuff. Of course. And bottom line is, Gary went to...

I got to watch that fight again, because, I mean, they could... They were so frustrated. These giant superstar legends are already living legends. Both of them. Boucher's already just... He's a fucking animal. And he couldn't tap him. It's crazy.

Did you know about Cyborg's Guard it's crazy did you know about uh cyborg's guard like did you understand it my my uh teacher tom the blast my original teacher um uh he uh fought him in abu dhabi in 2009 2011 something like that i guess where was which one was in barcelona uh i don't know it doesn't matter yeah but anyway he fought seven so you know I did a little studying on him just because you know my teacher who fought him and it was a very controversial match like you know they kind of when you look back and it looks like they kind of screwed Tom so you know that for me like I definitely was familiar with him I watched videos of him and stuff like

that after that but I'd say he'd made leaps and bounds from that point uh you know i really i didn't uh i took his jiu-jitsu a little bit for granted before that fight um he in that abu dhabi uh he did so like i felt like it was like the biggest uh like a climax of his career for sure in terms of his technique it was it was on that event for sure dude trains hard yeah man definitely trains hard that's interesting um when you when you see a guy like that and you see like those those leaps and bounds what do you attribute that to do you attribute that to like the high level jujitsu that's available today everybody has to kind of keep up do you attribute it to just um just like people or i think overall people are getting better right we all admit that right yeah

i mean the guys of today Or about there's guys that stand out in my mind You know there's always gonna be Marcelo Garcia and Hickson in his prime It's always gonna be these guys that stand out But the guys that today it seems like if you're if you wanted to get into jiu-jitsu and watch submission grappling like like the EBI Tomorrow it's just no no better time like people are finishing people man And and every day I got a bunch of jiu jujitsu nerds in my association, in my home school. Every time I see a cool clip of a new transition that Jeff Glover put on Instagram or whatever,

I'll tell my little jujitsu geniuses, you see that one new half guard sweep? Seen it. Everyone just seen it. Seen it. Seen it. I'm trying to come up with new shit. I'm trying to teach shit that I saw in a video, and I thought, I'm like, check this. I'm going to teach this tonight.

And, oh, you're doing it wrong. And I've seen that video a thousand times. Oh, shit. You saw that video, too? Nice. I thought I was the only one. I thought I was going to be able to steal a move. Well, that's a beautiful thing about jiu-jitsu that's misunderstood.

A lot of people think that it has to do with strength and aggression and for you know you think of it as being like this thing but yeah so many of the guys that do it they are like if they weren't doing this they would be building computers or something yeah yeah you know we talk about it all the time it's crazy how we could like actually dedicate our this time to something that people actually care about and like we could actually make money or something you know yeah so um. So, um, but yeah, that's definitely more of the mindset for most of them. There are those, you know, muscle head type guys. There's a few of those for sure. But guys like you, the thoughtful, intelligent guys seem to always rise to the top.

They figure out how to always have the best answer to whatever problems in front of them. Yeah. That's what we're really looking for. I mean, that's the theory that I try to, you know, pass on to my students and stuff. You know, as opposed to, like, I tell it at seminars all the time. I'm like, guys, if you're ever doing a move and you're just like, this isn't working, the reason is probably not because you're not pushing harder or you need to go faster. You know what I mean?

Like, that's not the reason something's not working. It's because your technique's flawed. You know, you're doing something wrong. Or his defense is good. Either or. Yeah, there's a lot. That's one of those things that I always used to laugh when people would do. Eddie and I used to talk about it when it comes to complicated techniques,

like some of your rubber guard techniques that takes a long time to get flexible, and you have to do the reps to pull them off. And people would say, oh, that doesn't work. And we would always laugh, like laugh like okay do head kicks work did you learn how to do a head kick right away like this is a perfect example right like head kicks like a wheel kick to the head how long is that going to take to hit someone out you can't say it doesn't work watch the v-tour rockhold fight watch you know a million fights now there's a lot of them so in a lot of ways jujitsu is is like everything else, right? There's going to be these levels that you see of it that are super high,

and then you realize it's possible, and you go, oh. And then along the way, you've got a lot of people that are second-guessing, a lot of doubters, a lot of people that don't think this is going to work or that's going to work. There's just so many moves in jiu-jitsu. It's unlike any other sport. It's endless. All the top guys have their own style. There's so much

to learn, and the only way to get good at a certain transition or a move is to spend a lot of time with that certain move or that transition. You don't have that much time, so the smart thing to do is because sometimes you're working on a transition that might not pan out, and you hit a dead end, so you're like, you don't

know what moves to spend this precious time with. So you look at the top guys and what are they doing? They already done the research and development. It works. So now you know what's safe to put reps into. That's a safe one. That's a safe one. And the safe ones are the best ones, right?

I think the compliment to that, though, is like, so you look at that. And I've seen people do it, people that used to be on our team. They would look at these guys. What are the top guys doing? Focus on that, but you focus too much on it. Those top guys, let's take like the Mendez brothers, for instance, with like Barambolo, right? Okay. These guys are doing a move that they've perfected, right?

Yes. So, sure, I could study what they're doing and learn what they're doing, but am I going to be able to make the same headway that they have with that move? Probably not. So I probably need to pick up a different facet of my game and make headway with that move. You know what I mean? And that's what I try to do. That's what I tell people. Oh, you know, what's the best way to get a step forward in competition, a step ahead of the game? And I think it's being somewhere, being in a position more than other people are in that position and developing that. Not so much what you see other people doing.

If you're constantly just trying to do what other people are doing, you're going to get caught up in that game and they'll always find a way to submit you because they've been doing it longer. You know what I mean? I think that's like the opposing strategy to what you were just talking about. No, I totally agree with you. I use both strategies. I always promote and push to keep your go-to moves polished. Do not forget about your go-to moves. Those are your special moves. Anytime a new student comes to me and you see them developing a move,

even if it's a move that I suck at, I'm like, that's your move right there. I remind them, I go, that's yours. Get really good at that. That's your secret weapon. You gotta have secret weapons but at the same time, I have new students starting every day

so I like to expose them to everything that's working out there and create their own style like that even though personally, I teach the Barambolo. It's part of our warmup system.

I'm not ever gonna be a Barambolo player. I mess with it every now and then when I'm rolling with 12 year olds and women. be a Barambolo player. I mess with it every now and then when I'm rolling with 12-year-olds and women. I'll Barambolo the shit out of a white belt girl. I'll do that. I know, but I know eventually, eventually I'm going to get really good at that in like 10 years.

And then I'll be able to attack with it. But right now, you stick to your go-to, keep those strong, and take your go-tos to the highest level. You stick to your go-to keep those strong and take your go-to's to the highest level but also Also have a constant introduction of new stuff in your game It'll pay back later maybe ten years down the road fifteen years down the road where maybe it's not your game now Yeah, but it will be after a while I'm killing you definitely need to take all those elements from the good guys from what they do for sure And really no other martial art like that right right, that has so many different moves. It's incredible.

It's like a five-dimensional martial art. Yeah, I mean, it just keeps getting better and better over the years, like Joe was saying before, you know. The progression of jiu-jitsu in general and the level of it is just going up and up. And I think the biggest innovations that are happening now are probably in the leg lock game, to be honest. Absolutely. That's like the next new frontier for jiu-jitsu. and eddie cummins are a big part of that big part

of that i since they want to tend plan they want we've i've never outlawed heel hooks or reaping i just never wanted to get heavy on heel hooks because i wanted to train my fighters for mma i don't want them to their first habit to go to heel hooks because it's a little dangerous. When the highest time guys are telling me, when the leg lock school guys are telling me, Manny, Carl, Karin, oh, bro, bro, MMA, leg locks, last resort. You don't want to give up position. When they're saying that, I'm like, okay. But I never discouraged it. But I had leg lock, like Shigeki, one of my black belts, very good at leg locks.

Danny got really good at leg locks. I told Danny, go, five years ago, submerge yourself in leg locks. He's not going to do MMA. I go, so leg locks are very important for you. But then when we saw what you did in EBI 1, you just leg locked the shit out of everybody. And then in the grappler's quest ultimate absolute, in EBI 1, in the finals, you beat Richie Martinez, one of my guys. You heel hooked him, inside heel hook. And then at the grappler's quest, ultimate absolute or ultimate whatever, submission only, I get those mixed up.

It was you and Nathan Orchard at the end of that 16-man bracket. Another one of my black belts. And you got him with the inside heel hook again. From that point, Nathan decided, you know what, he started studying everything you were doing. And we, to me, I never got deep into him. I got a good crippler or game over, whatever people call it. Both legs reaped. I got that

when I escaped the mount, I go to that. I'm good at that heel hook, but generally I'm not good at heel hooks. Never really looked into it. I didn't know the system. I didn't know the system i didn't know the system until nathan studied your personal game and then showed it to me yeah and i'm like wow it it's like the rubber guard because people don't yeah people think like rubber guards just reaching up and grabbing your legs and holding on and throwing up an arm bar they don't realize there's a system

there's all these positions there's a path i didn't realize it was this exact same thing for leg lock when i first thing for leg locks. When I first started training leg locks, I walked in. And Eddie had already done a lot of, made a lot of headway in the leg lock game. And obviously, John had been teaching him. So when I first came in, my intentions were, I was preparing for ADCC. So my intentions were like, all right, I want to know a little bit about this leg lock game. I'm going to be competing in a tournament where heel hooks are illegal, which I don't usually do. You know, I want to be ready for this. You know,

I mean, we're ready for whatever people are going to throw at me. I'm just going to learn how to do it well enough that I can defend it. And then I learned that it's like a whole different martial art. Like just the leg locks, you know, adding the leg locks. And I'm like, what the fuck? I'm like, I, one day I asked John, cause I'm so frustrated. I'm not passing Eddie's guard. Cause he just keeps leg locking me. And I'm like, so, you know, when a guy's good at leg-locks, how do you pass the guard? He's like, fucking learn leg-locks, dude. So you've got to learn how to do what he's doing so that you know the counters and everything. So I realized I had to spend time on it, you know, as opposed to just dismissing it as a small part of Jiu-Jitsu.

When you see someone dismiss him in MMA, like the Hayastan guy saying, don't do it because it's a last resort. But then you see a guy like Paul Harris. I was going to say that while you guys were talking. For sure. What do you think of leg locks today? Leg locks in MMA, what do you think? I just think there needs to be, there's a few guys that are using them well, and I just, I think that, you know,

there's just not enough people out there that are confident enough and have done enough technical research to make them, you know, useful, you know? What about Paul Harris? If you teach one dude a shitty heel hook, yeah, absolutely. But what do you think about his game when you see it? So it's terrifying.

The guy knows that he has a confidence in his heel hook. He knows he can break a limb with it. And he finds in every different situation, a lot of our transitions we get from, oh, Paul Harris got a leg there. He got a leg here. He learns how to get there from many different positions. And that's what I was talking about before

and kind of what Eddie was talking about with finding that thing that's like yours. He's there all the time. So if he can get you there, boom, you're done. You don't know what you're doing. Exactly. You're thinking he's already moving on instinct. This is what I'm thinking about leg locks,

is I hear this stuff from Hayastan 10 years ago. Yeah. I hear one of my first MMA fighter was he was a rubber guard, twister. I created this guy, but he also had a leg lock game. And he did MMA, and every time he tried to go for leg locks, he got knocked out. So there was a point where it was too dangerous after like 12 fights. For sure. But then,

you have, who's some more parts coming out, coming out of nowhere. And people I think are still, are giving him more like, well, he's making the leg locks work because he's so strong and he's so scary. And so,

cause the people do feel like we need to see it a few more times from different people. Hey, I hope leg lock works. The more submissions on the ground, the better. I love the way Rusamar Pajaras is pulling guard into leg locks. He's not even trying to take dudes down. Well, you know what I love?

When Alan Belcher figured it out. Yes. Alan Belcher figured it out. I mean, he willingly went into his half guard. He willingly went to the ground with him. That's the biggest mistake people make with Pajaras. And he defended every single step of the way and then beat him down and stopped him i think at the high level that's what it looks like i think if the guy is is kind of shaky about leg locks and he's not like he doesn't have leg lock defense in his dna

he's gonna get caught but alan spent two months solid with uh dean lister flew him in uh davi ramos who's a mini paul horace leg lock And he said the first two weeks, he just got leg locked all day. And after a while, you learn how to slow it down. And then you get tapped. And you slow it down. And then you get tapped. And you slow it down. And then you start attacking.

And that's what he said. So I think maybe with the leg lock game, if everybody got really good at the defense, that, yes, you can get in these leg lock positions and avoid getting hit. Because I think the saddle and the honey hole, I think it's pretty safe, right? Where you ain't going to get hit there. They can't reach you. But if the guy defends it and is comfortable defending it and then can sit up in a certain spot and sprawl out on you, then it could be trouble. I'm rooting for leg locks in MMA.

Trust me. I'm just not 100%. Once the punches come in, once they start flying, I hear Ryan Hall is making leg lock works in MMA training. So maybe leg locks will be the future

of, or part of the future of grappling in MMA. We always have this conception about this idea of it because of Frank Mir versus Ian Freeman. I mean, that's like cemented in people's heads. Remember? Frank Mir's going for the heel hook.

Looked like he's got it locked up. And Ian Freeman's teeing off on his face while he's holding onto his leg. That was huge. And then Frank gets up. He stumbles. I mean, he got fucked up. And that was when Frank was a monster. I mean, Frank was real young, wild, and aggressive.

Romina Sato and joaquin hansen romina santo's very good at leg locks had a toehold joaquin hansen caught him once and yeah hit him two or three times and he was just how it starts who okay who's scary who's got better leg lock technique iminari or paul harris because iminari has wrecked some dude's knees too i think iminari is probably more technical. What do you think? No? No. Eddie Cummings says no. Yeah, I think that

you're seeing kind of... First of all, you're seeing two people do leg locks, two people that are... that don't have any clue what they're doing when it comes to

the leg lock game, right? So it's in the MMA world. Not to discredit anybody that uses them effectively in MMA. Pajaras has used them effectively in both but then when you're watching people use leg locks and fights you can't just credit you can't

just be like oh my god that dudes leg locks are amazing because they're going again in terms of grappling they're going against somebody that doesn't have any clue what they're doing you know most of the time anyway but in terms of you know who's who's better I mean it's clear that the headway that Pajaras has made with an outside heel hook is just way above anyone else. Iminari has some other... I'd say Iminari's better at some of these technical transitions that he does. Some very unique counters and unique attacks. The spinning entries that you're good at too as well. Yeah, we definitely study him and try and use some of that stuff so i think he's just a little bit more creative a

little bit more unique but i don't think necessarily i think paul horace has a better system okay paul horace has a better system for breaking a limb as opposed to minari just a lot of creative transitions and you know can eventually submit somebody but you know that's interesting you ever think about getting a private with paul horace uh no because I, you know, I favor my knees and I don't want to get my legs broken. You think he would just... Oh, he'd definitely just break my legs for sure. I mean, he'd try anyway, you know. Really?

Oh, for sure. For sure. Dude, the guy's a crazy person. They brought in a sports psychologist to try and like, hey, why are you breaking your training partner's legs and everybody's legs in competition and not letting go? And the sports psychologist after a week was like, fuck this. I don't know what the – They brought him in because he was breaking his training partner's legs?

He's been kicked out of camps and stuff, dude. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. Huh. Goddamn. Eddie Cummings. That's insane.

You're nodding as well? Yeah. I just want to get confirmation across the board. Yeah. So – He had a tough childhood, man. You hear about his childhood? That big scar across his chest

They tried to crazy glue that shit shut when he was like a kid Wow yeah, he grew up on a farm He ate pig slop and he was like 13. It's a really heartbreaking story not surprised. He's been working since he was like a little kid It's one of the ways so fucking strong. Yeah, maybe pig slop has something to do with it It's gotta start eating pig slop. I'm sure he added some other things to his diet once he got some of that much. Can you imagine? Wake up in the morning, eight ounces of pig slop.

Pig slop. It's just super dense in protein. Tastes like shit, but it's good for your... Plus, it's like an instant fecal transplant as well because you're eating a little bit of pig shit in there. Perfect. Okay.

Did you see his fight with Fitch? No, I haven't I've been watching a lot of highlights Alan Belcher Actually explained it Alan Belcher actually went over what he did wrong It's pretty interesting, man He had a video outlining the technique

How to defend And how Pajaras went to a straight leg lock What he did and the way he should have done it And the way he did do it It's really interesting Alan Belcher is a wizard when it comes to that I love the way Paul Harris got the fight to the ground He's fighting John Fitch a DNC double-a Division one wrestler. How did he take him down? He didn't even try

He just shot for a week single and just sat down and went for a leg lock Yeah, once he gets a hold of you. It's like you have a whole new level of oh fuck Yeah, like everybody has in their head like a level of, oh, fuck. Like, okay, I'm okay here. I'm okay here. I'll defend here. But I think he's so goddamn strong. And on top of that, his technique's so sharp that once he grabs a hold, you see this look on dudes' faces.

They're like, oh, shit, I'm not getting out of this. Guys are letting him get where he wants to be, though. Yeah. Like most of them, anyway. You know, the better strategy is to put him where you want him, as opposed to, oh, yeah, I'm just going to keep this on the feet. No, you're not. You're not going to keep this on the feet.

He's going to find a way to get to the leg lock. He's going to pull guard. Put him down. Put him down. It shows you what a demon Hector Lombard is. Because Hector Lombard was like, bitch, you're not getting a hold of my legs. What happened in that fight? He beat the shit out of him.

How did the fight go? Stoppage. Lombard stopped him. He just couldn't take him down? the shit out of him. How did the fight go? Stoppage. Lombard stopped him. He just couldn't take him down? Couldn't take him down. Couldn't get him in a leg lock. Couldn't do anything with him. He never got him to the ground.

Did he try to pull guard? Hector Lombard is stupid strong, dude. Stupid strong. He's the only guy I've ever seen lock up with Tim Bosch and just face plant him. Tim Bosch was trying to shoot and take him down and he sprawled and just slammed him into the ground. Like he's so

god damn strong. And on top of that he's got ridiculous technique. You know, his judo is off the charts. And then, you know, he's got submissions too, man. There's a video of him in a submission grappling match where he snaps a dude's leg and you can hear it. You can hear the snap. Nothing better than that.

Have you seen that video? Which one? Lombard. Hector Lombard gets a dude in a leg lock and snaps his leg. I think I've seen it. It sounds familiar.

I think he got him in like a straight ankle lock and you hear a quack. Remember John Lober got his foot broken off with a toehold in Japan? The whole foot just broke off and he's just looking at him.

That foot's hanging and the ref just stops it and he's like looking at it going, oh shit. Remember that? the ref just stops it, and he's looking at it going, oh, shit. Remember that? It was a pancreas. Toe hold, but the whole. It was like Anderson Silva's leg. God damn.

Jesus Christ. You really stop and think about the progression over the years and all the crazy fights. You got to wake your brain up to that fight. Have you guys looked into the CSW leg lock system with Eric Paulson? You guys look at him at all? I trained at a school once but in terms of looking at their system of leg locks, I'm not

as attuned to it. Eddie does a lot more research than me. As you call people BJJ nerds, that's Eddie for sure. You're just like, Eddie, what's next? What is the new shit? I do a little bit of research? You don't want to go on YouTube. I do a little bit of research, but I don't do extensive stuff.

You know what I mean? I'm just training all the time. Luckily, I live in an age where I have all these people around me that study and know the martial art. I always think about that. I think back to what was it like when nobody knew what the fuck they were doing and you just had to make everything up. You had nothing to go off of. You know what was it like when nobody knew what the fuck they were doing and you just had to make everything up you know i mean you had nothing to go off of you know what i mean now we're in this era where it's like you know i could go to john with pretty much anything i'm gonna get a 95 accurate answer to whatever question it is that i have because he's seen it you know 100

times before on tape you know what i mean um we don't have to innovate as much are you planning on fighting an mma yeah one or two years you know years. I don't know how to punch people in the face yet. How old are you now? I am 23. So you're just concentrating on striking before you do it? Yeah, I just want to learn. I want to know what I'm doing before I jump. You wrestled your whole life, right?

I wrestled from 5th to 9th grade, and I started doing jiu-jitsu. So it gave me a little bit of a grappling base, but it wasn't, you know, I mean, it wasn't, you know, I knew how to do a single and a double leg, like a couple things in the ground, nothing serious, nothing that I really remember. Now I do wrestling privates with a D1 guy, Matt Pletcher, on a, you know, bi-weekly, you know, I do two a week. And what kind of striking training are you doing? Striking training, I started working with Frank Savannah, a boxing coach. She's, I'm just doing it like once a week right now.

Are you in Manhattan? I don't have time to, I am in Manhattan, but I haven't checked anybody out in the area. I'm just doing it once a week right now. Are you in Manhattan? I am in Manhattan, but I haven't checked anybody out in the area. I've just been doing stuff in Jersey, bringing people to me because I run a school, so it's hard for me. Right, because Henzo is connected with the Watt, right? Like Phil Nurse? Aren't you guys all affiliated?

Yeah, somewhat connected. You have some guys teaching, but I haven't gotten in touch with those guys It's just I'm just a real basic level right now So I just want to you know get to a point where I can you know start going to some professionals But it's almost like with jiu-jitsu like without knowing anything like what uses it to go to the best guy in the world You know what I mean? Well, you know what dude with a guy as good as you are

What's I think the most important thing is you go to whoever you go to if you decide to embark on your MMA career. Go to someone that's got a full knowledge, like a Farasa hobby type dude. Yeah, yeah. Like someone's got a full knowledge of MMA. Yeah, yeah. Those guys are so gigantic. I don't think they get the credit that they deserve. Yeah, man.

The Duke Rufuses of the world. Those guys that just look at the whole package of what you do as a fighter and piece together the right strategy for you. Yeah, we have good connections with... Firas. With Firas and that camp. Their guys come to us for jiu-jitsu

and our guys go down to them for MMA. So I'm definitely hoping once I get some striking and shoot boxing to a certain level, I'd love to go down there. Like I said, it's just so... I feel like, you know, almost they wouldn't know what to do with me at this point, just because I'm just so, you know, base level right now. Right. Useless to go down. I don't want to waste their time. So are you just training boxing or training Muay Thai? I'm just boxing right now. My boxing coach told me that he thinks, you know, I should

spend about six months purely on boxing before I jump into Muay Thai. You could probably do it either way, but. No, it's a good idea, man. They kind of contrast the two things that they're trying to teach you. So, yeah, focus on one thing first, and then I'll jump into that for sure. Yeah, get those mechanics down. And then the transition is very important, though, and some people don't make it. If you don't make it, and a guy has, leg kicks are just... They come into play, elbows and knees come into play. There's too many things that come into play.

Guys make the mistake of focusing primarily on boxing just because it feels good to punch somebody in the face. Oh, yeah. Pretty good at it. It's not an awkward movement for your body. Yeah. It seems pretty self-explanatory. Everybody understands it. Yeah.

But then kicking is this whole thing where you're moving your body in a way that seems awkward. You have to think about where your balance and foot placement goes so some guys they just become that boxer wrestler jujitsu type guy but can't do that anymore man it's just there's vitor belfort's wheel kicking you in the head you know what i mean it's like now it's on such a weird level that guys can do things guys that are like super high level in everything they'll always have that advantage over you in this one thing like as you're As you're planning out your future, super important to look at all the spots.

Some guys never do that. No one ever expects Chael Sonnen to throw a head kick. He's a good example of it. No one ever expected him to. You just never put that as a threat. It was never... But a guy like a GSP

or fill in the blank they can kind of do anything vitor perfect example and you can do anything yeah definitely makes you more dangerous for sure do you if with jujitsu like professional jujitsu was a big thing it was on television it was a major league sport that's what we're trying to go for right now but would you go into mma or would you stay with you that's anitsu? That's an interesting question. I haven't really considered it yet because we just haven't gotten it to that level. I think I would still try at some point to transition into MMA. Maybe I would hold it off for a little bit longer.

Like if I really saw that the sport was taking off and I felt like that's where I could make my headway and that's where I could make my mark, I'd definitely spend a lot more time there. I still think I would like to make a transition in MMA purely for a few reasons. One, just to test myself at a new thing. Two, to make sure that I have the knowledge for when somebody comes up to me and goes, oh yeah, I want to make a transition to MMA from jiu-jitsu.

What's your advice? Well, I can't really give them advice if I've never done it before, I don't feel like, you know, so I want to really know what I'm talking about. If I'm talking to these guys, these young guys that want to come up and, you know, do something with MMA instead of just jujitsu. So I definitely, from a teaching perspective, I need to get into MMA and experience that and know what it's like. That's, that's how I feel anyway, regardless of whether or not jujitsu takes off and it's on TV and all that stuff. Are you planning on ever doing any amateur boxing matches or anything along those lines? I got to talk to some of my coaches and stuff and see what they think

is best in terms of my development and things like that. I would imagine that that probably would be good for sure. I want to avoid as much as possible going the route of just getting knocked out all the time and training and stuff like that and just having that just gritty type of training where you're just it's just getting you tough you know in quotation marks and then i'll get to a point where i'm in a fight and i'm just getting touched on the chin and knocked out like i said i want to make sure i'm focusing mostly on technical details and then you know putting it all together so smart and so happy to hear you say that it's one of the most important things. You know, Jamie Varner just did this interview recently.

Jamie Varner was a former WEC lightweight champion, really tough guy. Did this interview recently. He said, I shortened my career because I sparred too hard, I sparred too often, and I sparred bigger guys. Yeah. You know, he started talking about how he was sparring Ryan Bader and all these dudes who were way bigger than him. And that over those years of doing all that sparring with these larger guys and sparring really hard three days a week.

He's like, don't try to prove you're tough. You're tough. You're in the UFC. You're already tough. Don't just try to do it right. And he said, sometimes you don't even have to do it once a week, once every other week maybe even. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking in terms of like when I get to the sparring and stuff like that for sure. I used to spar back in the day, probably three, four years ago,

when some of my teammates had started doing some MMA. I just did it for fun, for some experience and things like that, but it was stupid and dangerous for me to be doing that without really knowing what I was doing in terms of striking, I think. Because all I was really doing was hitting until I could get to a takedown anyway, but I mean, just taking unnecessary damage for no reason from people that wanted to take my head off, you know? It's not smart and people think it's cute. They think it's fun.

Like, this guy doesn't even know how to box. Watch me touch him up, you know? And they get in there and throw hard hooks in your fucking head. You don't even see them coming. And that, those, those shots that you take in those sparring sessions, they can really fuck you up. Yeah. For a long time. I'm glad that it never really, you know, I didn't have to, they can really fuck you up for a long time.

I'm glad that I didn't have to pay the price for that at all. If you can find guys that spark technically really fast and have good control, man, you can progress so far. Because it takes away all the fear of getting hit. It's just hard to find. The ties apparently have it down. I was talking to John Wayne Parr when he was on the podcast and he said they stay spar like they play Yeah, like like when they're kicking each other they're like slapping each other and because there's fighting every week So they don't want to get hurt. Yeah, so when they're sparring they're like playing with each other

No one's trying to hurt anybody. Yeah, it should always be like that And that's like the biggest problem for people starting out in training jiu-jitsu to get that guy That's just like a squeeze is everything and like you need to be able to relax get submitted and move around like you have to Be comfortable with all that stuff, you know, yeah, yeah, it's like a hard thing for me to like teach You know new people coming in that's like the hardest transition get them to a point where they're comfortable enough to relax and then just Let their mind open up to like what they should be doing now. Yeah, it seems like it's just time It's the only thing that fixes that just time and everything and striking too and but you see guys that train for a long time and maintain that mentality and still are just like you know they're just rough

and tough guys that are just trying as hard as they can every single role and they're not making a lot of progress i see plenty of people like that so time but with good direction from like coaches and teammates and things like that because there's still plenty of guys that you could be training for 10 years and you're just still trained like a jerk-off. Yeah. There's a lot of those guys that never really develop much offense either. They have a couple of good moves that they cling to. That's a weird thing, isn't it?

Some people just figure out how to get – how many years were you doing jiu-jitsu where you started hitting, like, a real high level? I mean, I think, you know, I mean, it was a progression. I was focused on, like, points jujitsu for a long time. I was still trying to submit people. But my strategy was I'm going to get to the back because there's a high score for points there. And I could do a rear naked choke. It's a, you know, highly effective submission.

And it's low risk, you know. So that was my strategy for everything. So the first five years of my training was all dedicated to that from every position. Let's get to this guy's back, choke him from behind, keep this simple. I'm going to have more points and I'm going to be able to submit the guy past that. Those, these last three years, I think I've made the biggest developments in terms of like broadening my submission base and learning how to submit people from different places and things like that but i think it was kind of good for my progression you know because i got positionally sound in a bunch of and had like a strategy and things like that but it took till i was a black belt to really make advances in in jujitsu i feel like you know

what what do you how do you feel about uh what submission only versus the points game? I mean, I think it takes a couple different things. So, I mean, you could see people that are possibly successful in both or successful in one or the other, but I think what it comes down to is kind of the mentality of the person that's training or competing in either one of those things. I mean, you take somebody, whether they're a points fighter, if they're a points fighter competing in a submission only tournament you're gonna pretty much see them take the same strategy in the submission only tournament um you know they're it's you take

it takes guys that are constantly hunting for submissions in training um and that's that's when you're gonna see the the best matches you know guys that are constantly hunting after submissions all the time it's not just like a situational thing there's like this there's just this overarching thing that uh some of the bigger jiu-jitsu guys say i think i saw it like an article from kayo and i love kayo terry you know he's a great guy but um he posted this thing that said like you know oh you know uh you know i i hate when people talk about you know submission fighters and you know points fighters and and you and the difference between the two. And I think it's like the points fighters, it's all the same.

And these guys talk about, oh, I'm going to use my jiu-jitsu. And if a submission opens up, I'm going to – yeah, I'll finish the guy if the submission opens up. No, you make the fucking submission open up. It's not like, oh, I'm waiting for this guy to accidentally stick his arm out there. No, I take his arm away from him. That's the point. Those are two different mentalities. You know what I mean?

Oh, I'm going to wait for this guy to make a mistake, and I'm going to make this guy in danger. That's a newer mentality, right? Because the original mentality was that one of the reasons why Hoist would favor a longer match is he wanted to cook his opponent he wanted to slow him down wanted to make him make mistakes he didn't have the physicality to impose himself on people yeah so he waited till they got tired and then they would give something up and it can work sure and i don't think it's like not a winning strategy you can clearly you see guys grind people out and submit them um but i think that i think that not just using strength, you can find ways to open up submissions on people. There's definitely a deeper level of technique there.

Yeah, that's why the difference between the way Josh Barnett describes it, describes submissions and the way some more technical jiu-jitsu based guys would describe submissions. Barnett always calls catch wrestling a violent art that like you're you're via attack It's not the gentle art. You just use the general art catch wrestling the violent art Yeah, so these a lot of the young guys like yourself super aggressive guys It's like there's like a change in philosophy then More adhering to that philosophy like the aggressive go after it philosophy Yeah

And I think when we're talking about taking grappling to a point where it's a spectator sport which is like what eddie's trying to do in many of these other organizations that's what needs to happen absolutely whether it's whether it's going to help you win fights or not like you know you take a look at the ufc and dana white's always telling people like you have to have exciting fights you have to have exciting fights and it's true because you won't have as many fans if you don't he'll eventually kick you out of the ufc if you don't you know what i mean But that's what makes it expected. That's why people get paid to do it, because people are excited to watch it.

And whether you win or lose, it can't be the only thing in your head at that point. When we're talking about bringing people in, if you're making money, you're putting on a performance, you know? So it has to be about the attacks. It has to be about what's exciting about jiu-jitsu, the submission.

You know what I mean? So people constantly getting attacked, that attacks. It has to be about what's exciting about jiu-jitsu, the submission. You know what I mean? So people constantly getting attacked, that's what people want to see. And that's going to make this a big thing that people are interested in. Are you still interested in competing in the Gi? I'll still compete in the Gi. I just don't focus on it because nobody pays anybody to compete in the Gi, number one. Metta Morris does. Yeah, and most of the matches don't end in submission,

and they're considered boring matches. Most of them. I'm not saying all of them. Do you think Matt Amore should go all-no-gi? Yeah, I do. I don't necessarily think that you can't have exciting matches in the gi. I just think you have to find the right people. You have to find two people that are willing to put it all on the line and just try to submit each other and not give a shit whether or not they get submitted.

It's hard, even when you find two people like that, when they both have a grip of the collar and the sleeve, they're just stuck there. They're really good at just holding each other. It's a tough one. Yeah, I agree. I think it just makes it more exciting. Would you do a Metamorris match in the G?

I'd consider it, but it would take a bigger camp. I'm definitely just focused on nogi right now for everything in my future it's just like you know if i'm gonna do mma it only makes sense um every match every super fight that i'm being asked to do is without the gi it just literally at this point makes no sense for me to spend a lot of time on it now once again like i said, from an instructional standpoint, students that might be interested in training in the Gi, at some point, once I break away from, you know, my athletic career, I'll definitely study the Gi. I'll definitely study Judo. I'll definitely study all the things that, those little intricacies that people use in Jiu-Jitsu, the lapel guards and things like that, so that I can better help my students, but not so much for

me as a professional athlete. I don't think, I think at this point, we're hitting a point in jujitsu where you have to make a decision. What am I going to specialize in? And I think I'm going to specialize in nogi submission grappling. Have you ever rolled with Marcelo? I've never rolled with Marcelo. Recently, he's been, you know, he's been injured. I think he's coming back now pretty strong. What happened to him? He got his knee hurt doing something I'm not 100% sure what maybe snowboarding yeah exactly yeah it's

awesome dude once you eventually you'll do you'll do it I've been skiing it's dude it's different when you're going sideways why is it different it's first of all it's a better it Is it better? It's better. Really? Once you go snowboarding, you don't go back to skiing. For years. You don't go back to skiing. For years, I was snowboarding.

When I was a kid. You went back to skiing? I was skiing for losers. I'm going to snowboard. Snowboarding is so much cooler. So I do it for four or five years. Just once a year, twice a year. Family would go on trips or whatever.

And then one year, my friend's like, dude, you got to tryout scheme. You know see how you see how you like it now at snowboarding I was at a level This is my strategy snowboarding as fast as I possibly fucking could in a straight line go down the hill and then fall To stop myself all right something getting almost knocked out. You know falling into the snow how fast you go I have no idea. They don't know what yeah, who knows And I'm only going like, you know, bunny slopes or like you know, blue, whatever the blue square. Like an advanced, intermediate, whatever. I could never do, I was fearful of a black

diamond straight down. So I put on skis, the first time I try it, black diamond, no problem. You know what I mean? It's like, I mean, clearly you're not doing it technically, but like, it's safe. You know what I mean? I could, I felt like comfortable, I could slow myself down. Snowboarding, I just feel like you're looking doing it technically, but it's safe. You know what I mean? I felt comfortable. I could slow myself down.

Snowboarding, I just feel like you're looking in one direction. It's just tunnel vision. You're going as fast as you can. It's so much more uncontrolled. It's difficult. So what you're saying is snowboarding is more exciting. From a thrill-seeking point of view, hell yeah. It feels more dangerous to me.

You're locked into this board. You don't have your two legs to be able to separate and balance yourself. How often do snowboarders collide with each other? If you're going that fast? When I'm on the slopes, it's a much higher percentage than anybody else. You just gotta learn how to turn.

Really, snowboarding and skiing is just the art of slowing down. Breaking, breaking, breaking. Slowing down, slowing down, slowing down. Yeah. Because as soon as you don't slow down, boom, you go down like a rocket. Sonny Bono. Yeah.

That's it. Oh, back to Marcelo. Yeah. Would he be someone that I think personally as a jiu-jitsu fan, you against Marcelo would be the most interesting. Like, if that was Meta Morris. Yeah. Jesus. I would never.

Or Superfight EBI. Yeah, I would never, like, call him out amorous. Yeah, geez. I would never super fight EBI Yeah, I would never like call them out or anything. You just don't have any right to but um, no It'd be an amazing match. I would love that matchup rematch with chrome Absolutely. I asked for it all the time. But again, I can't really call Cron out. He beat me So I you know, I called him out in a sense like I hey I want to fight you but I would never like talk shit about Cron to try and get him to fight me because it's just Yeah, that's not fair what made that match was the

finish that made that match and they made the match for both of you it's it's like it made the match so much more exciting than if you guys just went to a draw if you went to stalemate at the end and maybe you know you were both clinched up with each other and it ended that would not been as good what that was a perfect example of what's possible at high level jiu-jitsu or it's so exciting the fact that he did submit you blew you up yeah yeah you know you were made that you put him in some terrible positions man I mean you you had him in some bad spots we were like holy shit and you know Eddie and I went off about it we watched the video. Well, I was there live. I went nuts live. Yeah, that's right. We were all going, oh, is he going to beat Krohn?

Oh, oh. And then one minute left or whatever it was when Krohn, they broke you guys up. He looked at Hickson. There's a video of you explaining Gary and then we play the video of the fight on the internet. It's on YouTube. Yeah.

So it's cool that something like that exists and I just think that we need to have more of those out there And then eventually Hollywood people are gonna go. Hey, whoa. What is this is wild shit? Like hold on. Nobody nobody has this lockdown This isn't on television But the UFC is established a very firm but like huge property in the UFC Like that's what everybody connects with MMA MMA MMA equals UFC. And if you're fighting for Bellator, they go, oh wow, you think you're going to be fighting for the UFC someday? It's just what it is. There's none of that

with grappling. It doesn't exist. How many times have you heard a guy in 2000, 2001, 2002, guys that were already deeply into the UFC. We saw it in 93. It's 2000, 2001. Even to this day, you run into guys UFC. We saw it in 93. It's 2000, 2001. Even to this day, you run into guys that aren't

into it, and they go, yeah, I've seen it a couple times. Just a couple dudes rolling around. It was uneventful for them. For them, it was uneventful. But when we saw it, what did we see? What was the difference? The difference was the fucking tournament. The first one I saw was UFC 2. And that was a 16-man tournament.

Because it ends up being when you see one match at a time, it's like a documentary. You see maybe that first round, no one looks familiar, but that second round, you're like, oh, shit, that dude with the long hair against that ninja dude. And then the semifinals, you're like, holy shit, how's that going to work out? You just saw their career that night and then the finals hoisting patrick smith you're like holy i went from hating hoist in the opening round because he beat my karate guys to rooting for him and just being his follower right there at that final because like pat smith was kind of a you know he was like a heel even within that so it was a movie yeah that's

why we got it we with when we when the people that watched it back then got obsessed with it instantly. It was the greatest thing ever. If they would have been single matches and you didn't know those dudes, we wouldn't have that drama unfold. There'd just be a bunch of single matches. It's like a movie, right? Exactly. And you can't do that with MMA, but you can totally do that with jiu-jitsu.

And that's why Abu Dhabi is so special, because it's a bunch of 16-man brackets. But the only thing that I think Abu Dhabi should have a 16-man bracket, have it like four days, like a whole week. Every day is a different one, because the way they do it now, it's like watching three movies at the same time. You're not watching it unfold. And then on the internet, you just watch a link of the finals finals and then you go back and watch a semi-final you don't it's like watching a movie in pieces and you already know the ending but what um what metamorris does is have a single fight every fight is is main stage there's in three matches or 12 matches like the mundiales it's one match at a time showcased, but it's not tournament style. So

what I'm trying to do is I took the best from Abu Dhabi and the best from Metamoros and try to combine it. Metamoros, submission only, one match at a time, and Abu Dhabi, the super 16-man brackets that are in themselves. If you watch it one by one, one at a time, center stage,

it's mind-blowing when you watch it like that. We need you watch it like that we need to watch it like that in my opinion that's what made ebi one and ebi two which i mean gary went and submitted everybody in the 16-man bracket every dude he ran through and in the final by the time he got to the final with him and richie richie blew through everybody on his end of the bracket so it was richie and gary the everyone was going nuts because they saw it unfold one at a time that's the secret that's a very good point you know they're trying to do that with glory and I'm actually I've been advising people against it I think it's a terrible idea for kickboxing

and MMA too much damage too much damage and then people are gonna get hurt and cut it's not gonna work they're gonna get KO'd that's the problem you get KO'd sometimes you get KO'd and you still fight and win you know you get you get knocked out and you're still fighting on autopilot and then it's over. Like, what happened? You won. You won a decision. Like, what? Like, I've seen that happen with guys.

It's not safe. Glory, they fought three times. They had the last man standing tournament in LA. We went to that, right? You came to that. That shit, they fought three fucking times, man. Kickboxing. In the first fight, Joe shilling had to fight four rounds

because the third after the third round was a draw yeah jesus christ that's how powerful tournaments are when you watch it it's so powerful that you might not be able to do it in kickboxing this all this could go wrong it's real it's risky but the tournament is so exciting that if we could pull this off and no one gets hurt and we get lucky, it's a grand show that people are going to watch over. And when you watch it from the beginning to end, you feel it. It's a documentary. That's a very good point, dude. That's a very good point.

And I think if someone got a hold of that, someone who produces sports television and realized this is like an unsung property. This is out there. The sport is at a very high level right now. Guys are very, very exciting. And no one has capitalized on it. No one's put it on television, and no one's making money with it. It could be giant. They just don't know how to do it. First of all, you've got to get rid of the points.

I put together EBI like if some old Jewish guy who owns some network said, I don't know about this martial arts stuff, but I like you, kid. I'm going to give you one season. I don't know about no jujitsu or anything. I'm going to give you one season. As soon as the ratings drop, it's out. We got a deal? Then you would go, oh shit, okay. We got to get rid of the fucking game. We got to get rid of points and we got

to have a tournament. We got to see it unfold because that's what makes the ultimate fighter so awesome. It's a tournament. Although it doesn't happen in one day, but it's still a tournament. You see the brackets unfolding. Just like the March Madness. I hate basketball, but I understand why there's tournaments. You see it all unfolding.

You see the drama. And that is what's missing from grappling. That's why, in my opinion, that's why you can't get it on TV. Because in all the other formats, it's just too much stalling, too much holding. We need Renato Larangia right holding we need hanato laranja right now to dispute your claims because right now you're talking crazy disrespectful sport of jujitsu the key is everything my friend without the key there is no life let he let no let go let he that's one of his quotes there's nothing funnier than Brazilian misinterpretations of English I sent Eddie a picture of a t-shirt

That I found in my closet Way back in the day Walid Ismail What the fuck did it say on it? It said on the back There's a cartoon picture of him He's all mean He's actually the nicest sweetest guy ever

All those mean looks It's all him doing pro wrestling He's actually super sweet Super sweetest guy ever. Best guy ever. All those mean looks, it's all him doing pro wrestling. He's actually super sweet, super nice. He'll take a picture, and then he'll be like a little kid going, let me see, let me see. And he'll look at his picture and he's like, ah. We've got some classic ones from back in like 2004, 2003. Love that dude. And he has this shirt where it's him standing there like a cartoon character.

And it says on the top, don't be coward. Don't run off the fight. Yes. Don't be coward. Don't run off the fight. Nice. At the bottom.

Can you imagine? Can you imagine when he turned in, like when he went to the t-shirt shop place, and there's an American guy. Do you want to prove this? No, you put it. This is bullshit. Put it now. You do a shirt now. He goes, okay, we're going to need some initials on this right here.

Initial right there and right there. This guy's crazy. He's the best. Print the damn shirt. The dude's printing it. We're like, boss. Boss, come here. I just want to make sure. It says don't run off the fight. We're cool with that? Don't be coward.

Don't be coward. All righty. And he's just like. I just want your approval here and initial here. Too bad he didn't tattoo it on himself. I want to get this on video. Now you, Mr. Ishmael, you realize what you have written here. And this is exactly how you would like it printed?

It goes to court, you know what I mean? They do a selfie video. I'm trying to find the picture. I know I have it on my phone. Well, he tries to sue them and claims that they fucked up. Yeah, this is not the true jujitsu. I never say run off the fight. Run off the fight.

Who said stupid things like that? That doesn't even make sense. Yeah, that was a crazy match with him and Hoist. Remember that shit on the beach in Rio? They fought with mats that were laid out in the sand. And everybody got sand in their eyes, in their face. There's fucking sand everywhere. They slapped some mats down on the beach.

Hoist had big balls to take that match. Because Waleed was fucking everyone up back then. And Waleed, he got him in a clock choke. Put him to sleep. That's a weird thing to watch, too. I can't believe they let him take that fight. Because the general consensus in, like, night, like, after the UFC around, like, how good is Hoyce's jiu-jitsu for real? And he was never, like, you know, a world champion or a national champion or anything like that.

Everybody knew that. Everyone knew he had decent jiu-jitsu, but he wasn't lighting the world on fire. So for him to take that Valide match, man, that showed he had gigantic balls because Valide was a destroyer. Yeah, that's a hugely ballsy move. And he got choked to sleep, which I think was very important for jiu-jitsu, just to show everyone looked at Hoyist Gracie, rightly so, as this massive innovator, this pioneer of jiu-jitsu and MMA, a hero.

This was after the UFC gets choked out, right? Yeah, yeah. Wow. So he's a hero of jiu-jitsu, and then you go, okay, well, listen, there's guys out there that are another level. They're another level above him, you know, and this is one of them. Well, that's what he said about Hickson. He said, well, I'm not actually that good good Hickson's ten times better than me and then the Japanese went. Oh, okay. You sure? Okay

I found it. It's actually a picture of him. I thought it was a cartoon, but we had more than one Eddie There was more than one. No, no. No, this is the front. It's the back. You need the back of that. Oh, the back of it as a card. Okay, let me see if I can find it. No mercy, no rules, no pain. This is a different one then, man. This is the one that I found. Those three things don't go together.

I have the same shirt. It's on the back. 100% I have it. And he's in cartoon form, too, in the back. All yoked and shit. There was definitely more than one of those ridiculous shirts, though. But that's why Hanato's shtick

is so funny. Because, you know, you think that he's actually being conservative. Hanato's kind of conservative with his language. He's, uh... He's not a shtick, man.

He's a real motherfucker, man. Shtick. Shtick. S... The shtick. S-H. No, no, no. Shtick. It's like his shtick s-h no no no shtick

it's like his act it's not an act he's actually that cocky in real life people think amazing it's an act that he's like this

super confident guy no he really is like that would you be willing to match him with a gi cause the gi is his strong suit I wouldn't

I'd never say anything bad about him man he's always been nice to me. Fuck it. You know what I mean? No comment. You scared? The video came in Nate Diaz.

No comment. When Nate Diaz was taking it serious. Oh, shit, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. What the fuck, man? The first time I met him, I didn't know it was a joke either.

It's not a joke. He's really that arrogant. Everyone thinks he's just pretending to be arrogant. I see what he's doing. I see what he's doing. I'm just showing my respect because he's done a lot for the sport. Respect. So you said that someone was thinking about trying to turn submission grappling into a television show. Who's trying to do it?

Oh, no, no, no. I was just saying that people were trying to be like the UFC in the way that you were talking about how somebody be fighting in Bellator. It's like, oh yeah, when are you going to be in UFC? People are trying to do that. I've had multiple organizations now ask me to be exclusive to their organization. For competing?

Yep. Oh no. Yep. Oh no. That's terrible. So if they pay enough cash, if they're paying you enough money. Yeah, I don't know about all that, man. I'm in favor of, look, the big issue with MMA and the big issue with boxing has always been that, trying to get the best guys to be able to fight the best guys. When you're exclusive for one promoter or exclusive for another promoter, it makes things super problematic.

Independent contracts for independent matches and no long-term commitment to things is the smart way to go for grapplers because if that gets established as the go-to, then it favors the grappler, and then there's no advantage that the promoter has over the grappler. The grappler could always find another promoter. So if the promoters get along with the grapplers and everybody agrees with how much money everybody's making and it seems cool and fair, then that would be a good way to do it. So no one has a lockdown on the market.

I think that's very important. They're trying to, trust me. You turned down the offer? Yeah. Yeah, I did. Good for you, man. Good for you. That takes balls and that's a smart thing to do.

Because I think if everybody just set that precedent and we created this market where the grapplers were the star. This is what's important. If people want to see fill in the blank, Marcelo Garcia versus Gary Tonin. If people want to see that match, the real benefitters of that match, the benefactors of that match should be Marcelo Garcia and

Gary Tonin. And then of course some money should go to the promoter. Some money should, but the only thing that's exciting about submission grappling is the submission grapplers. That's it. Because if you're not selling that, you're selling air. That's it. That's all you got.

So if you're locked up to one organization, it also limits matches. There's matches you can't make. But what do you say about... And it can only do a certain number of matches per year, right? So what organization puts on 12 matches a year? Right, it has the same guy every match, every event. And what do you say, I'm sure the promoter, whoever's doing this, I have no idea,

I'm sure he's probably saying to himself, hey, if we want to be as big as the UFC, we're going to do UFC-type stuff. Exactly, and it's just such a flawed mentality, I feel like, for the sport. It's so young and it's so tiny and there's very little money in it. Every single one of these organizations, these professional organizations, EBI, Metamorris, Polaris, all these things that are popping up here and there, they're all doing amazing things for the sport. They're broadening the audience for submission grappling.

It's so silly to think that you need to be just the guy. You know what I mean? Everybody is cross-promoting each other. I like when my guys fight in Metamorphs. They're gonna fight. For me, personally, my guys, Gio, Boogie, Nathan Orchard, my guys,

I'm trying to get them on Metamorphs cards. I'm texting Halleck. Dude, how could you not want Gio Martinez on your fucking show? He just blew through everybody in the Abu Dhabi trials all within two minutes. Tapped everybody. One EBI, one as a featherweight. One as a bantamweight.

Finished everybody. How do you not want that guy? I want guys to go there. You think you're dealing with a rational individual. That's the problem. Well, the people that are doing jiu-jitsu, the people that are involved in jiu-jitsu, if you're involved in these matches, if you're involved in competition, most likely, 99% of the time, you're making your money off of teaching, right?

Most of the people that are running these schools, that's where they're making their money. So it's not like a situation where there's this giant piece of pie that everybody's battling over, so everybody wants dominance. It's like it's beneficial for you to get your students into Metamorris, because then they can highlight how good of a teacher you are. It's good. It's good for business. Good for everybody.

It's good for Metamorris. It's good for EBI when he comes back, because he'll never be exclusive. He's always going to be an EBI. Always. And so, why would I want to keep him from Metamorris back and forth? I'd tell Alec, let's let's work together and use let's let me Blow up the guys and then ship them off to you. I love metamorning money that way Yeah, doesn't and then we come back we bring them back over to EBI

I think this is the new way of thinking I think that is this this kind of exists in everything It exists in martial arts where martial arts today like here's a perfect example Like jiu-jitsu guys are constantly training techniques with each other constantly showing each other things The whole thing about martial arts in the old days like in the 60s and the 70s was how secret it was Yeah, they had secret techniques and they would hide from you the scene. You couldn't teach white people Remember Bruce Lee got in trouble for teaching white people. Yeah That's a big thing couldn't teach Mexicans. You couldn't teach Westerners couldn't teach Americans you you know They wanted to keep it within the Chinese culture. Yeah, now. It's the total opposite now Everybody's exchanging and everybody's just trying to find out

What's the best shit who's the best at this and you get guys together and you match them up with each other? I mean that's essentially the new thinking and it's the new thinking for everything and other I mean that's essentially the new thinking and it's the new thinking for everything and the fact that this is how it is right now so far with jiu-jitsu with professional submission grappling is awesome yeah that means it has a shot but as soon as someone comes along and buys the whole thing and then wants to put on only like you said 12 matches a year like you compete how often do you compete like in as a once or twice them once to twice a month yeah that's insane's insane. And that's one of the reasons why you're so good. You're not just training all the time You're throwing yourself into battle all the time

You know, I've seen quite a few of your your matches online and I saw the recent one when you What's the guy's name the leg lock specialist the MMA guy from our scene held. He's really good. Yeah Yeah, that was a really really Helb. He's really good, man. Yeah, yeah. That was a really, really interesting fight. That was really cool to watch. He was probably one of the most game people that showed up to that show. Like, he was prepared. I felt it. I could see it.

You know, like, man, that was a, that was, he was there. He showed up for that match. That was a tough match. And for MMA, his jiu-jitsu technique is stellar. It's a really high level. You talk about leg locks at work at MMA and leg lockers that are having success. You talk about leg locks at work at MMA and leg lockers that are having success. Husamar Parr is the number one guy. Imanari back in the day when he used to go for leg locks a lot.

Now he really doesn't. He's still awesome. And then you say, oh, that's right, Marcin Held. Because he'll pull guard just like Husamar right into heel hooks. Right, yeah. But the performance that really impressed me, your two performances in Metamorris, man, when you went against Kit Dale and you just,

you didn't even leg lock him, you guillotined him. That setup was so beautiful. That's a crazy setup, man. Your arm was in such a weird position when you guys were in a scramble. And in Metamorris, the whole, Metamorris is in a constant struggle with how do we put together exciting fights. That's what it's all about. As soon as the show comes out,

everyone on the internet goes, boring, boring, oh, this one was great, or boring. It's always like, hmm. So if you have a boring match, people on the internet are going to fucking flame you. That's why everybody was mad at Brendan Shaw. Yeah, exactly. And maybe the last, I like them

whether they're boring or not. I like the whole atmosphere. I like going to Meadowmores and hanging out. I fucking love it. It's high level. There's a lot of money behind it.

I wish I had that kind of money behind EBI and then it would be on like Donkey Kong, but it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I love Meadowmores. I love it.

Even when some matches are boring, I love it. Cause then I talked to the guy next to me, you know what I mean? He's just there to chill. That guy's just trying to watch the matches and shut the fuck up. Yo dude, if you have these nachos, they're outstanding. Dude, everybody, you know, the boring matches when the Gi matches come on, dude, look around at Metamorphs. Everybody is on Facebook and on Instagram going boring. Y y'all everybody is like communicating right during the match it's incredible yeah it's

weird but but um in the middle of all that no one can say he's just saving show after show because his matches he goes out and just finishes them everyone says boring show except for gary tonin get gary tonin with two R's and Kit Dale. See if you can find that. That's a crazy deity. Zach Maxwell match. Dude, man. Without you right now, man.

Without you, Metamorris would be, you're keeping Metamorris afloat. Because it's just boring match after boring match. Again, I love jiu-jitsu. I understand boring matches. I i think you got to get i i told halleck uh don't he doesn't want to go pure nogi because he feels like it's disrespectful to disrespect the spirit of jiu jitsu i told him i go do what abu dhabi does you don't make the decision let the fighters make the decision so you can wear anything you want and you know what when they have that decision No one wears shit all the guys that love the key they take it the fuck off Is there love the geese that's how Abu Dhabi is Abu Dhabi you could worry Ken you can wear it at Kido pants

You can wear anything you want the she comes dude come come in with some at the last time But I'll be the one that you were out there was this Japanese fighter in a blue Superman outfit Remember that guy people People loved him. They loved him. Dude, he showed up in several costumes. He's like Spider-Man, Superman. So if you do that, the promoter gets off the hook. Say, I want him to wear whatever they want.

You know what? Nobody would wear a key. I think it comes down to what Joe said before. A huge advantage for the guy. You have all these handles and weapons. You'd be wearing the weapon around your neck. And you and the other dude goes straight Marco Huas. Yeah.

Straight fucking those bikini briefs they wear in Paris. Oh, yeah. In pride, you can wear anything you want. In pride, all jujitsu guys go to pride.

The only one who's wearing a gi is Yoshida. Yeah, Yoshida. And he wasn't even jujitsu. But all the other Brazilians, they're wearing those bikinis that they wear on the beach. They're shaving their legs.

They're greasing them up. And even Hoyes took the gi off. Remember, Hoyes started wearing the gi pants when he fought Aki Bono? Yep. Gi pants, no top. And here it is in Metamorris. Oh, shit. Halleck, please don't sue us for this.

We're trying to pump up Metamorris. No need to get crazy. And this is the match that made Kit Dale lift weights. I follow his Instagram. Oh, dude, he was jacked. He was jacked during this. Everybody kept telling me how much bigger than me he was going to be. Don't get me wrong.

Don't get me wrong. He was very big, but now he's giant. Have you seen the pictures of him on his Instagram? Holy shit. That guy's swole the fuck up now. Damn, you made him lift weights. If you look at his Instagram, you look at it, why are you looking at it funny like someone said something stupid?

What's that? Like when they're introducing you, you're like hmm. Because they called me a five-time Nogi World champion, which is not true. How dare they? I was just confused. How annoying. Whose idea was that?

We're not together. I don't know, man. Chris Howder's an old school black belt, man. Oh, yeah. Old school Machado lineage. He's been around a long time. It's cool to see that he's refereeing this. Yeah, our video sucks a fat dick today. Dude, I love that rolling under.

Try to do the Imanari roll. What's that? Cut to a little skyline view for a minute. What the fuck is that? Who's running the route? Who's running the operating board? Oh, man. So you pull half guard here

immediately. Pitdale's on top of you. And what are you trying to establish here when you're doing this? What's your go-to shit? Kimura's from here or I'm probably trying

to come underneath him for a leg lock. So you're playing it light here. We're relaxed. No one's going crazy yet. You guys got a long match, right? It's like a 20 minute match. So when you have a match like this, are you, uh, are you really consciously like budgeting

your time and your energy? Uh, a little bit. I use, you, you use your energy efficiently when I, I'll feel, I'll use my energy when I feel like it's, uh, it's going to help me attack. You know what I mean? I'm not going to use energy just to push and pull you know if I'm gonna I'm gonna use it to make sure I'm not in danger to make sure my opponents so now you're going after his leg yeah yeah that's a beautiful what the fuck Jamie and then my outside look at this point wasn't very

good um you know my form there's a little off that's a nasty transition there's definitely some things that I could have done a hell of a lot better. Man. Fuck, man. That looks deep. Yeah, that looks terrifying. He's rolling here. He looks okay. Damn, Kit Dale gets out. How dare he? Yeah. How dare you, Kit Dale? It looked like you had everything you needed.

You go right back to this. This is your go-to shit, huh? Outside heel hooks need to be perfect for them to work, man. There's just so much detail. But, yeah, man. Back in half. Awesome camera work, Metamorris. heel hooks need to be perfect for them to work man there's just so much detail but uh yeah man back in half and then awesome camera work metamoras you guys save on lights they go back to kit's a very good passer very good he actually showed up to my gym right before this yeah yeah i heard he was training with you guys and and coincidentally dude we were working on you all right so then we were coincidentally working on it.

I wasn't trying to... That's what he was saying. Oh, yeah, but they were trying to... That's all we were doing for a while. And he showed up and he's fighting Gary Tonin. I'm like, I'm not going to change my... I got to show this to my students.

So I apologize for that. No, it's all good, man. It was not on purpose. It was not on purpose. I'd actually never met him. He just showed up to my gym. Really nice guy. Cool dude.

I ended up following him on Instagram and all that stuff. Yeah, he's a funny dude. I'm sure we were showing kindergarten stuff compared to what you guys know. What happened, Jamie? I doubt it. Is it the computer fucking up? Yeah. So we get back out to the feet.

And then I drilled this with my wrestling coach. We do this all the time. We still drill it. Just establishing the underhook from collar ties and hitting a good snap down from here. So you get a good snap down, get control of the head. Now he tries to duck. And then I just follow it. And now my hands aren't connected yet.

And then I'm trying to connect my hands and finally get it. Once the hands get connected, he tries to struggle out a couple more times and finally sinks in deep. I can't believe we can't see this. Jamie, we've got to deal with that today, okay? This is annoying. This is the one time where it would be really nice to have video.

I can get Zach to help you, Jamie. Yeah, we can... Whatever. We've got to take care of that. Can you play it at all Or are we done? Man, right at the sweet spot Hey Yeah

What's happening, Jamie? There it is There it goes And you already tapped Perfect Okay, back it up a little bit So this is the part Where you don't have your hands connected

Yeah You just have your hands connected yet. Yeah, yeah. You just have your arm. He ducked hard so my hands were separated. And then I connect him finally get that crunch in on the neck

that I see You got it from half guard here, huh? Yeah. Arm in or Marcelatine? It's, you know, it's high elbow guillotine. And you catch this

from half guard all the time? Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't set it up from half guard but I end up in half guard for the finish. For sure. And then we come up a little bit We reset it, boom Wow, you got a full mouth

Yeah, that's a Marcello, or you guys call it high elbow High elbow, but yeah, yeah, yeah I mean Marcello uses it, yeah So you finish in full guard with his arm trapped His arm was trapped, was his left arm trapped I didn't see that I'd have to watch it again, I don't know if I intentionally trapped it. Damn, son.

That guillotine right there, man, that was huge. Seeing Marcelo hit it all the time. The only reason I called it Marcelotine, I didn't know it was called high elbow guillotine. I'm sure there was a name. But I just stuck with Marcelotine so that in the 10th Planet system system every time that comes up and it's so crucial Yeah, it's a part of our warm-ups that I want Marcelo to make sure he gets credit cuz sure No one's had more success with it than anybody. I would say because of that success. He's probably the best at it No, I've seen him run through black belts

I've seen him run through a high level black belt ten times in ten minutes. It's the same the same guillotine It's a key technique, man. John was preaching to me to get good at that technique for so long. And like, I sucked at it for forever. It takes a long time. How are you connecting your hands? Uh, I just grab, um, so when I grab like mid, so I go down past the pinky, uh, in between the wrist and the, and the pinky bone and then just grab my left hand over the right hand. Uh, no, I've hit some on the left side in competition.'ve gone the opposite direction but um in terms of like if i'm finishing on the right side yeah left hand over right so but i've seen people hit it like this i've seen people do it with 10 finger grips yep you know the the difference between

those uh what marcello told me is uh this feels so much easier for me. But what Marcelo says, and Danny does it this way too, but Marcelo, we went over it. He said he does it like this as opposed to this because the guy underneath is going to come up and reach and grab. And if he gets in between these two hands here, his fingers are going to come up. He could wreck the grip. You've got to beat the grip.

But if he comes up here and I come this way, it doesn't matter if he grabs the inside. That's how most dudes think they're doing the right thing. They're going, boom, and they still get choked. They're going, boom, and they still get choked because he's coming around it instead of here. I see. Yeah. So that makes sense.

That makes a lot of sense. There's a bunch of different – what we're talking about, for people who don't know, if you're listening to it especially, there's a bunch of different ways to hold your hands with different submissions, and that's one of the interesting things about Jiu-Jitsu is that there's little tweaks that you learn, little turns and twists. You know, like Einstein always likes to call it Freedom Rock. You know that

one guillotine where, like, you know, you ever seen that commercial for Freedom Rock? It's like a ridiculous commercial for like one of those compilation records that you would buy. Turn it up, man. So the turning it up is Freedom Rock. The turning your hand to the side and forcing the blade of your wrist into someone's neck.

He basically named the squeeze of the darts. There wasn't a name for what you're technically doing. So he named it, and it's a good name. It's a great name. It's Freedom Rock. Just to remind you that it's not just figure four in your arms. You've got to turn it in and squeeze. It's a smart thing.

It is a smart thing. And it's cool that there's those little technical things about jiu-jitsu. And for people that get involved in it and start realizing, like from the outside you look at it one way, and then you get involved in it and you start seeing all the depth to you look at it one way and then you get involved in it and you start seeing all the depth to it, that's where all the jujitsu nerds come into place because that's where it doesn't seem to jive.

Like people are like, well, how come these like really computer-oriented nerdy kind of dudes are so in love with jujitsu? Well, you know, like Donaher always talks about, there's a video that we were talking about earlier that they were playing on the underground with him talking about it being high-level problem-solving under stress.

And that's what's exciting about people who are maybe they would be into video games or maybe they'd be into chess or maybe they'd be into all sorts of problem-solving type things. But you get doing it in real time, the rush of success is so much better. Like the rush of winning a chess match, I'm sure is great. but do you think it's

as good as you choking Kit Dale? Get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. There's no way. It's not even possible. That rush is the ultimate rush. That's the you're dead rush. This is not like a bang bang you're dead in a virtual sense when you're a Quake character. This is like you're playing

death. Yeah, somebody overlaid some of your podcast over some like jiu-jitsu video, some reel, about like you talking about submissions and like what submissions really are, what a tap really is. And you're like, oh yeah, I just possibly killed you right there. Yeah, you're killing dudes. You killed Kit Dale. How dare you? You killed Kenny.

Perfect. It's also beautiful for people that are practicing it that you could kill a guy like that and look look he's fine afterwards You're holding his hand up. He's fine. I mean, that was probably sore the next day, but other than that he's fine He didn't get knocked out. He didn't get beat up So it's almost like a more ethical form of combat entertainment if somebody was gonna put it on television So I decided to put the EBI on Spike TV or something like that

It's like you know everybody everybody has a problem with head trauma like that fucking kid that just died. A boxer just died the other day of head trauma. It's gonna happen. No matter what, if you have combat sports, but in Jiu-Jitsu, it's way, way, way, way, way, way, way safer. Yeah, absolutely. Way safer

long-term for the participants. And you could still, like, you watch that match, man, that's exciting shit. I dare anybody who knows nothing about jiu-jitsu, just watch Gary Tonin versus Kit Dale and watch it with an open mind and watch those transitions that you're going through

and you realize, like, whoa, this is a, they're doing a crazy thing here. They're like, they're like, um, Helston Gracie, I had Steve Maxwell on the podcast the other day, and Helston Gracie, somebody asked him to describe podcast the other day and Helston Gracie somebody asked him to describe Jiu Jitsu and I guess his English

is not the best in the world he's got a little bit of an accent he goes this is Jiu Jitsu you do this then I do that then you do this

then I do that forever isn't that the dopest fucking answer I mean that is kind of what it is in a way

until one of us almost dies yeah you do this then I do that or keep it up Isn't that the dopest fucking answer? I mean, that is kind of what it is in a way. Until one of us almost dies. Yeah. You do this, then I do that. Or theoretically dies. Or keep it up until you can't keep it up anymore, and then that guy beats you. It's a super hyper way of killing someone and breaking their limbs. John Danaher, remember we hung out with him that one night? He said, if you look at it, striking is the least intelligent way of taking someone out.

Grappling, that's the most intelligent way. Striking is the most caveman way of fighting. Just keep hitting each other's heads over and over until someone goes down. When grappling is like, let me take this guy down and scientifically put him to sleep and get the hell out of here. That is true, but in a situation where you can't grapple with someone like if you're in a street fight Would you want to be in a street fight with Marcelo Garcia in a bar? Or would you want to be in a street fight with John Wayne Parr? John Wayne Parr is gonna be head kicking

Motherfuckers and putting people in the hospital with elbows to the face like you try to get close to that dude You're gonna get your head smashed in yeah, John always striking eyes like you try to get close to that dude, you're gonna get your head smashed in. Yeah, John always talks about striking as like an ability to do crazy amounts of damage in such a short period of time. So there's clearly pluses and minuses to both. In real life situations, absolutely. You don't wanna just go to the ground. If you have striking skills, I wish I was a kickboxer. It would be nice to be able to have the confidence

to throw, you know, you could take three dudes out if your striking's good enough. Right, like Melvin Manhoof. If you to throw you know you could take three dudes out if your striking is good Right like Melvin manhoof if you time it perfectly you could take three dudes out for you Who don't know and they fuck with Melvin manhoof in a bar first guys asleep? There's two guys left one guy runs. Fuck that and then it's one-on-one and that guy's dead. He's dead He's dead or bad or Hari Bahar Hari Apparently they one of the reasons why he he was in jail more than once, I think, beating the fuck out of people. One of the reasons why he's in jail, they took this guy's leg and they stomped it and

snapped his shin in half. And this guy's fucked. Like, the wrong dude to fuck with in a street confrontation. So I'd say both sides. It's good. You can get super high level in striking. It is intelligent. street confrontation so I'd say both sides you know it's it's good to you can get like super high level and striking it is intelligent it's more intelligent than wrestling with somebody you know if you're in a bar and a bunch of other

people around and you're in a melee type situation if you can be a John Donahue you know look you could you could protect yourself for sure you know John is an excellent black belt anybody that goes one-on-one with them is just gonna get mangled some Untrained person doesn't know any better But I'll be willing to bet that even multiple people that I'm trying to attack John had some trouble as a bouncer Absolutely years of his life. He's had to deal with a lot of that so he would use you as a shield Yeah, oh, yeah using your arms to beat other people senseless with but the boy being like it's not Unintelligent to have a John Wayne Parr skill set.

No, there's definitely an intelligent way to use striking, obviously. Or Badr Hari. Hey, I didn't say that. I was just throwing Danaher under the bus. I didn't say it. That's pretty much what me and Eddie feel like we're doing all the time. Just completely misconstruing everything he's ever said to us. Sorry, John. Just doing all the time. Just completely misconstruing everything he's ever said to us. Sorry, Doug.

Just ruining all of it. There's no either or. Because there's a lot of intelligence and there's a lot of technique to high-level striking. If you watch those Lawrence Kenshin breakdowns or the Jack Slack breakdowns on the underground, he goes over the real technical process of why Bullcat or Yotson Cly, one of the really high-level Thai guys, why they're so good. There's a lot of shit going on. Absolutely.

It just looks like they're smashing each other with their bones, but note how one guy keeps getting smashed and the other guy does all the smashing. Yes. And I know guys that are dumb as shit and amazing at jiu-jitsu, so, you know.

No, I know some really super strong and they're good I'm excited about jiu-jitsu right now I think this is like one of the best times for whatever because of all the the the like people talking about on the internet and all these online communities that have formed it seems to me like jiu-jitsu has a lot of enthusiasm behind it right now. It's because of submission only. The Gracie Nationals and Gracie Worlds, they proved, Rose Gracie proved, that you can do submission only.

Because before that, it was submission only. A submission only match was like a dream, like a fantasy. What if, what if Gracie Nationals, Gracie Worlds made it work, and then Meadow Morris did the whole prestigious single match UFC type event? What do you think Abu Dhabi should do? Because that's where all the money is, right? That guy has more money than anybody on the planet. I think they should do submission-only EBI rules. That's what I think.

Not because I made it up. I personally think I'm constantly changing. Like the overtime, I'm tweaking it. I'm trying to make it. As soon as someone says, what about if a dude does this in overtime? I'm like, oh shit, we got to change that. I had a long conversation with John Danner about a month ago

about the overtimes. What do we do right here? I'm not going to be one of those guys that's going to see a glaring problem. I'm going to do what the Japanese do. Someone presents a problem, they go, oh shit, let's make it better. I'm going do what the Japanese do someone presents a problem. They go. Oh shit. Let's make it better. I'm gonna switch it so

Anyways the shake of Abu Dhabi has the most in influence the most Enthusiasm he is a henzo black belt. Yeah, that's the guy Yeah, you know if anybody's gonna take shake talk noon is the guy who's gonna take this and make it mainstream I think he should do each tournament on a separate day make make it like a week thing, every day a different, just one movie that you see, or maybe two a day. You see it one at a time, you stream it, you do it one at a time. To me, I knew, I had a feeling it was going to be that powerful when you watch it unfold, but when we actually did EBI 1 and 2,

man, it was incredible the people that were there were coming up to me and saying constantly and I mean they were saying that was the best you just a tournament they've ever seen it's only because they saw that way one match at a time by the time they got the Gio Martinez and Jeff Glover in the final triple overtime the place went nuts do you think it's possible to do something like this and stream it? Like a Netflix service where a bunch of people already have the service and all they have to do is just click on it? Or an Apple TV type deal where a lot of people already have that?

If you get access to Netflix, you get access to 70 million homes. And there's still people that, for whatever reason, they don't have the ability to get the internet on their TV. So you don't get them. But the people that do, the people that have internet connected to their TV, a lot of fucking people have Netflix, man. So much so that they're sponsoring television shows. They're making their own shows.

They got this Marco Polo show that's pretty fucking dope, dude. And it's like a really expensive show. Like you could tell they spent a lot of money making this thing I'm down to take EBI to the ultimate Heights. I just want I want you jitsu on TV There's no reason why we can't have Jujitsu TV on TV. We have dog frisbee We have all this crazy frisbee dudes pulling tractor trailers with your teeth Come on, you can't you can't put metal Morris on TV. You can't put Abu Dhabi on TV

I think it just it's really simple. It's got to be submission only. It's got to be no Gi if it's going to be on TV. You ain't going to put Gi on TV. You have a better chance of putting Chess on TV. Yeah, I agree with you with that. There's just a lot of matches that wind up being stalemates where they're holding on to the collar. And it's also, as much as it's an interesting learning tool and it's great to learn that if you get in a fight with someone who's got a winter coat on,

the reality is when we're looking at combat sport, we're looking at jiu-jitsu, we're looking at jiu-jitsu and MMA, they should be interchangeable. And they're not. They're not interchangeable when you have a gi. They are when you have no gi. So it seems pretty cut and dry, straightforward. I think if someone just wants to do jiu-jitsu and the gi, it's fun to do. It's great. It's a great way to do it.

It's a good way to slow the game down. A lot of older guys like it, especially because of that reason. It's like chess. Chess is a great game to play. You have to be really smart. It's fun to play, but you're not going to put it on Fox anytime soon. Nothing wrong with jujitsu with the gi. But I agree that for no-gi,

the difference between no-gi and gi is it just smoothly transitions into MMA. Except for a few variables like the getting punched when you're going for leg locks and stuff. The UFC is the hottest rising sport on the planet. There's millions and millions and millions of fans all over the world that are the rabid fans of the UFC.

There's no reason why there can't be one million of those fans that are into no-gi jiu-jitsu, because really it's the same thing, just without the striking. On the ground, it's the same objective. They're in the same positions. Standing, there's no striking. But if you love MMA, you should be able to appreciate some good grappling,

as long as it's exciting, the format's right, there's no points, as it's exciting the format's right there's no points and it look you know it's a single matches there's no reason why you can't get a fraction of all those ufc fans realistically i'm low balling i don't if it's done right if it's done right and marketed right i believe you can get 25 40 i could see there being some sort of a cable television show where they do it you know like, like a Spike TV. Like, you know, Spike TV has Friday night. They have all combat sports now.

They have boxing. They're having Glory. And then they have Bellator. Access TV. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Not as many people have that.

That's a big drop. Really? It's a big drop in access. Yeah. Over Spike? Giant drop. Really? Big drop.

Okay. Spike is in way more households than Access TV is. Millions and millions more. Way more. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Maybe Jamie could find out the actual numbers. But if I had to guess, the difference is probably like 50 million plus.

It would be perfect on Spike. Yeah. Well, that kind of a place where you would get, where people are already watching it. They've already got it tuned in. Not that there's anything wrong with AXS TV. AXS TV's got some awesome fights. That's where you get lion fights. It's the only place where you can watch, not lions,

it's Muay Thai. You ever watch it? No, no, no. Lion fight is probably the number one Muay Thai organization in America as far as exposure because of television. Like Kevin Ross, those legit Muay Thai guys with Muay Thai rules. It's bigger than Glory? No, because Glory's not Muay Thai.

Glory is kickboxing. The difference being you can't clinch, you can't throw knees to the body, you can't throw elbows in the clinch. You can't do a lot of things that you do in Muay Thai. Muay Thai, real Muay Thai oftentimes winds up being a grapple fest where they grab a hold of each other and they blast each other with knees to the body along the ropes. That's a big part of Muay Thai if you watch it in Thailand.

If you watch some high-level matches, these guys clinch up with each other and they blast each other with the body they dump each other they they sweep each other all the time and it's just a different thing when you're adding in knees and elbows and glory doesn't have that just like K1 didn't have that K1 you can only for a while you could throw elbows with two knees but then a lot of dudes came over there and they just blasted two hands behind the head. And then it became illegal to even throw knees with two hands behind the head. You could only use one hand behind the head. If the owner of Glory came to you and said, Joe, I respect your opinion.

What do you think we should do with the rules of Glory? Should we go full Muay Thai? Full Muay Thai. 100% abso-fucking-lutely. How long can they clinch? It's a better sport. It's a better sport. It's more exciting.

It's the true art of stand-up. The true art of stand-up involves throwing stand-up, throwing strikes in the clinch. Muay Thai involves a lot of elbows and tight. Muay Thai involves manipulating bodies and leading people into knees. Like Alan Joban, perfect example in his last UFC bout. The way he turned that dude into that elbow, that is Muay Thai applied to MMA. I mean, it's a combination of grappling your opponent

and striking. And that's a big part of Muay Thai. And you don't see that as much in Glory because I think it was along the lines of what they were trying to do with K-1. They thought it would be make it more exciting if you had like less clinching, more exciting, and guys wouldn't get cut up,

which is what they're worried about for tournaments. But I think tournaments with striking is super fucking dangerous anyway. I think they're asking for trouble by having a guy like Joe Schilling fight three. He's fighting Simon motherfucking Marcus, and then after Simon Marcus, he's fighting Wayne motherfucking Barrett, and then after that, he's fighting Arton motherfucking Levin. Three of the baddest motherfuckers on earth and you're throwing head kicks and punches and elbows. You can't

have elbows in there because you get cut up. So the idea of tournaments, like you're preserving, making sure the fights happen more often. So how would you do it? You would kill the tournament? You're still shin kicking each other in the head. Shin kicks to the head cut you open like a fucking serrated knife. I mean that can happen in the head. Shin kicks to the head cut you open like a fucking serrated knife. Yeah.

I mean, that can happen all the time. You're always going to wind the risk of the guy not being able to get into the finals if he gets head kicked. So what would you say? No tournaments. No tournaments. Tournaments are too dangerous. And bring back full Muay Thai. Full Muay Thai, no tournaments.

Use tournaments for grappling. Tournaments are awesome for jiu-jitsu, for EBI, for Metamorris. Tournaments are the way to go. For kickboxing, 100% Muay Thai. It's a more effective art. Is it too late for them to tweak? No. For Metamorris, tournaments are the way to go. For kickboxing, 100% Muay Thai. It's a more effective art. Is it too late for them to tweak? No, no way. Are they committed to these?

Is this like a gospel? No, it's never too late. They own the company. They own the company. They can switch it up. Yeah, if they have Bellator, then they have a way more dangerous sport anyway, as far as what the public's perception would be, because you're adding in takedowns and submissions.

You're just adding elbows and knees. They should totally be able to do that Hmm But if you and then more time in the clinch allow guys to clinch Because those guys like a guy like Simon Marcus you take away his clinch you take away a big part of his game a lot Of his game is he's a really strong guy. He's excellent the plum he manipulates dudes, and he's blasting you in the body boom boom That's a big part of his fucking game a huge part elbows in the clinch Those are she that's a huge part you take that away, and you're forcing them to just kick box I just think it's not as good still fun

Glory is awesome to watch still exciting. It's not as good as if it was like full Muay Thai Damn, I wonder if he's gonna take that advice I hope so man because full my Muay Thai rules is also way more technical. You're watching way more. You never know what the fuck. A guy like Kevin Ross is a perfect example. He's a guy who fights total Thai style or like Bua Kao. When you see that guy use everything, knees to the body, elbows in the clinch, upward elbows coming in, step off to the side,

leg kicks across the front of the thigh. They're using all these different techniques. There's so many of them. And then the clinch, knees to the body, knees to the body, elbows. All that stuff is a part of the sport. And you try to make it more exciting. That's like when Elite XC was saying that you would go to the ground, but only for 15 seconds, and then they have to stand you back up.

We're like, this isn't fucking MMA. When Big Country had Arlovsky down and he was working a Kimura, and they stood him up from side control. He's in side control. He's got the wrist pinned down. He's feeding his arm through, and he's about to try to attempt a Kimura. They stand him up, and we're like,

what the fuck is this? How many times was there a bad stand-up during a UFC fight when I was in your ear, and I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, what the fuck? And then all of a sudden you start, you start, you let, I love, anytime there's a quick standup, anytime there's any standup, I love it when you say something about it. There shouldn't be standups. At all.

Standups shouldn't exist. It's only five minutes. Yeah. You have five minutes to get a guy to the ground and submit him and the guy's trying to kick your fucking head off. Yeah. The idea that you should be stood back up because it's boring. Look, if it's boring, then you know what's going to happen?

Less people are going to buy your pay-per-view. Less people are going to pay to see you fight. You're going to make less money. If you want to finish guys, you're going to make more money. The market should dictate your style. The rules should be the rules of fighting. And in fighting,

sometimes a guy like Ben Askren can hold you down and do whatever the fuck he wants. And the idea that you get to be stood up, you get a second shot at kicking his fucking teeth in, no, he took you down. He took you down and do whatever the fuck he wants. And the idea that you get to be stood up, you get a second shot at kicking his fucking teeth in. No, he took you down. He took you down. He held you down. Especially when every round starts standing.

That's a stand up for the striker. Exactly. I mean, hey, if you wanted to make a league or a fight company that was totally fair, when the fight ends, if they're on the ground in the mount, the next round should start just like that in the mount. Right?

Why are you starting standing up again? And you know what I think? I think it would be more exciting. I think if they just let the market dictate, just let it decide, just the rules, make it more primitive, make less rules.

Get the ref out of the mix. Yes. Get them out of there. Get them out of the mix. You know what I mean? Get him out of the mix when it comes to subjective ideas. Throw some tigers in there. Like whatever subjective ideas he has of what's good or what's not. Come on, guys. You got to fight.

I go crazy. I'm like, they're fighting. What the fuck do you think they're doing? You see that guy kneeing that guy in the leg? That's called fighting. That's a part of fighting. I wonder if the promoter is telling the ref, make him fight. Of course they are.

That was the Gary Shaw thing in Elite XC. He told them to stand people up. So you got guys like Orlovsky wind up knocking Big Country out, which is kind of fucked up. Because Big Country was dominating that fight. And if they stayed on the ground, he probably would have stayed on top of them. I don't see Orlovsky reversing Big Country. Big Country's jiu-jitsu is legit. He's a big fucking strong dude.

And he's working a position that he earned. He gotjitsu is legit. He's a big fucking strong dude, and he's working a position that he earned. He got you to the ground. It's fucking hard to do. A guy like Orlovsky, you get him to the ground, you get him in side control, and some fucking slob of a promoter decides that you have to stand these guys up because they want

war. The crowd wants war. We're selling fighting. We're not selling hugging. Spitting fucking salami sandwiches flying out of his mouth as he's talking. That guy gets to dictate what happens in a professional martial arts event? That's insane. And it's illegal. How crazy would it be if there was

a league that took out stand-ups and you started the next round exactly in the same spot? How hard would that be? Is that hard? Not only that, that's how it should be. That's how it should be. If people want to have a break,

if you want to get back up, you should have to work to get back up. If a guy takes you down and he's got your fucking, you mounted, he's just punching you in the face and the buzzer rings,

you didn't solve that. You didn't solve that issue. You got an issue, man. You got a guy on top of you punching you in the face. If this was in the schoolyard, if this was in a fucking field somewhere, that guy got a guy on top of you punched in the face. If this was in the schoolyard, if this was in a fucking field somewhere, that guy would still be

on top of you. So look, we're going to give you a minute to get your cardio back to make it more exciting, but that's it. And even that, guess what? That's a little suspect. Maybe the fight should be 10 minutes. Maybe the preliminary fight should be 10 minutes and the main event should be 15 or 20. No fucking breaks.

No breaks. I think that's real MMA. What's real MMA is no fucking breaks. Hey, I'm down with that. No breaks. That would be awesome. I think that's real MMA. What's real MMA is not rounds. You know, I know the girls would get upset. They don't get to walk around every five minutes. They'd lose their jobs. They would still be there in the beginning and the end. There would just be a few less of these.

A few less. I don't think it's... They still are an integral part of the organization. They're beautiful. They're fun to be around. Nothing wrong with octagon girls. Nothing wrong. It's not an anti-octagon girl rant i love those girls it's the importance of fighting realistic where's the cage dancers and uh you know ring card girls at your event man we're gonna use dudes you know we're trying to make it more

friendly for gays queer genders transgenders, straight people that like watching dudes in their underwear. There's not a good representation of the male form. That's a small market. There's a huge gay Brazilian jiu-jitsu community in West Hollywood. You know that, right? They go to all the local tournaments. They show up. They got their rainbow geese.

You never heard of them? I haven't. He's fucking with you. There's a smile that he can't hold sometimes. You got to look at the corners of his mouth. They start shaking. Just keep it together, Mr. Bravo. Did you believe for a second?

What's that? Did you believe? Sure. Okay. So it worked. Well, you know, there will be someday. It keeps going. There will be.

Gay guys are notoriously fit. Hey, why wouldn't a gay guy want to do jujitsu? Right. You get to roll with other dudes? Come on. You get into the missionary. You get to take their back. Balls in their face. Do a lot of tapping. It's perfect. They should be obsessed with it.

They probably are. It should be their national sport. Maybe this is going to inspire them to come clean with it. Maybe there's a lot of dudes out there. They're going to just take their regular gi off and they got a rainbow gi underneath. I have nothing against gay guys. I'm sure I have like five or six gay guys in my school. Hey. That's like saying I'm not racist, but it's basically the gay version.

Just don't get boners while you roll and everything will be fine. There it is. This is the gay version of I'm not racist, but. I'm not racist, but why does black people got to be so ignorant? I'm not homophobic, but if you roll with me me don't get a hard-on because I am fucking beautiful It's like what you're saying is saying how did you not get homophobic when you have my back a little bit? If the guy gets hard you're still gonna roll with no no no You're gonna say your contact your contact

It's only homophobic if you expect the guy to get hard and you're upset before the match even starts. You've got to let the guy have the opportunity to get hard and then say, hey, man, that's not cool. You can't start off going, hey, man, don't get hard if we wrestle. Like, fuck, dude. That's like hanging out with a black dude going, hey, man, don't rob me. And he's like, what the fuck? I didn't do anything. I think only gay white belts get hard-ons.

I think by blue belt, you learn to control it. Listen, I think there's a lot of gay white belts that don't get hard at all. I think you're out of line. I'm just saying generally. Well, have you ever gotten hard rolling with a girl? Never. Well, there you go. That's what I'm saying.

And you're one of the horniest people that's ever walked the face of the planet. But I'm not rolling with girls all the time. It's like, whatever. There's hardly no girls in this world. But you're still talking. You're talking about zero percent. What's like whatever. There's hardly no girls in the court. But you're still talking about zero percent. What's it going to go up to? If I say that jiu-jitsu

was the opposite if we lived in the twilight zone and 98% of the people doing jiu-jitsu were women and I was one of them rare dudes, I'd be like, hell yeah, I'm going to do jiu-jitsu forever.

That's how probably girls feel, right? Just get mauled all the time by giant dudes. Hey, you said that Jesus Christ why is she entering the heavyweight class girls girls the dishes you to they're like this is a gold mine all these guys are in great guard geniuses getting ground like whoa we get choked here Oh hard attention is incredible but she finds herself in north-south all the time. It's so weird. It's ridiculous

Does he make sense like she's so good at retaining garbage almost seems like she turns into north-south from the bottom Yeah, I don't understand what's happening. Oh It's a crazy sport. It's a crazy sport boy The first girl first girl when I was a purple belt I brought to jiu-jitsu to she wanted to watch She couldn't believe it. She got she was sweating. She couldn't believe it. She was sweating. She couldn't believe. To her, she just saw sexual positions. That's all she saw was how do you guys do this? She was turned on.

By guys wrestling with guys. By guys. Some girls like that. Some girls do. Girls want to find out who wins and take his sperm. That's what they want to do. Or some guys like two dudes getting gay together. Some girls like that.

Right? Dude, no comment on that one. No clue. That's a yes. Well, we have a woman in the room. Octavia Bourdain will tell us. She's nodding, so I think we got it right. Do you know girls that are not gay, but somehow two gay guys getting together turns them on?

Yes. See? In France, right? In Italy. In Italy. In Italy, yeah. Bitches are crazy. That's a crazy savage type of person. 20%? Would you say 20% of women that you know maybe?

Higher. Higher. All my girlfriends are into gay porn. Really? Yeah. And it turns you on? Yeah. You don't want you to laugh.

You're not watching you to laugh. Gay girl porn or gay men porn? Gay men porn. What? Okay, we got to end this conversation before I throw up. I was going to say. I'm about to throw up on this microphone. You know what?

I nailed it. Right? It's true. Watching some dude balls deep in another guy's ass and a girl playing with herself. That's the last. Too much. Our egos are so strong. It's so important for us to not get dominated by another man. You're like, his

balls are right here. I don't give a fuck. I'm going to stop the choke right here. And his balls are right here. You're like, that doesn't mean shit. It's going to hurt more if he taps me than if his balls hit my cheek. So you're just like blocking the choke, right? It's more important. You're not thinking about any sexuality at all in Jiu Jitsu. You're thinking about not getting tapped. Do you ban tie cups, those steel cups? I don't ban anything. You allow guys to wear those steel cups? They can wear whatever they want.

I'm not going to stop them from protecting their balls. No, but it's not that. The idea is... Increased leverage. Yeah. Do you believe that, Gary? That it's increased leverage when you wear a steel cup? Absolutely.

Do you wear one? I certainly more efficiently break arms, legs. Yeah. Do you wear one? Certainly more efficiently break arms, legs. Yeah. Do you wear one? No, I don't wear one when I compete. I just never have, so it would be awkward

to start doing it right before I compete. Seems like there'd be a massive benefit if it's legal. It would be. Some organizations ban cups in arms.

Cups totally? Yeah, you can't wear one because of the leverage. God damn it. I have another Einstein story. Einstein was passing my guard and he hit my dick with his knee.

I didn't think anything of it until I went to the bathroom after I was done rolling and my jockstrap was filled with blood. Mr. Bourdain, you want to cover your ears now? And so I peed and blood came out of my dick. I'm like, fuck. And I was trying to think, should I go to the doctor? Because I knew if I went to the doctor, I'd go, okay, what would I do if it was my nose? I'd go, I wouldn't go to the doctor.

I would see what's going on. So I went home and I jerked off. A little bit more important than your would see what's going on. So I went home and I jerked off. A little bit more important than your nose, though. It is, but I went home and I jerked off. I just want to make sure my dick works. Was there blood in your sperm? There was blood in my sperm. It was like the cover of the Metallica album Load.

It's blood and sperm. It was like one of them chicken eggs where something went wrong. You know, you get one of those chicken eggs. It's got a little fetus in it or something. That's what it was like. It was clumps. But it worked out. It worked. It did work out. Yeah, and then I peed the next day

It was I had blood for a few days though. There's blood that was coming out for a few days But it never got infected. I was like if it feels infected. I'm going to the doctor because otherwise they're gonna be staring at my dick It's gonna be awkward. They're gonna put q-tips up there and then probably say nothing. They're probably not gonna do anything for you So like you made the right call and I'm saying is cups are the way to go, because that shit wouldn't have happened, especially like a steel cup. I'm constantly squeezing my knees, and every part of my game, the knees are generally squeezing,

so I'm in constant protect ball mode anyway. So you don't wear a cup? Never. Do you ever wear one of those diamonds? You ever try those diamonds? Never. You ever try it? Never.

Would you be interested in trying it? I got them here. You want one? I'm afraid that my balls are going to hang out and that someone's going to smash my balls like Vanderlei Silva. It's like compression shorts. Remember that Gilbert Ivo Vanderlei Silva? That's right. The ball got caught after that.

That guy was laying on the floor longer than that pain, you know, that pain you get where you feel like you're going to get sick. He had other kind of pain, like his ball smashed. I remember that. I think he had a regular cup. Those regular cups, this is way before they had these compression short cups. There's a couple companies,

Jocko does them too, a couple companies, but Diamond MMA, I think they started it. They have a cup that's contoured. Jamie, go grab one of those things. I got a bunch of them. They sent them to me. I don't have any affiliation with this company, I just want to say. They need to take a mold of your dick and then make like a mold rubber jelly thing. Okay, now you're getting weird again.

No, no, no, where it's soft. I thought about this. What if your dick gets hard? It's soft. Then it gets trapped. And it's like you're choking your dick out with your own cup. That's a good question. We haven't gotten to that yet.

He wants to make like mouthpieces. Yeah, like a mouthpiece, like an earpiece. Yes, exactly. Yeah, a mouthpiece or one of those custom ear buds. You just can't ever get turned on. Yeah. Yeah, so this is- And why would you?

It's jujitsu. It's other sweaty dudes. See, they have a cup that's kind of contoured. How about a soft cup? This is, no, I don't think that's the way to go. The whole idea- You can still get killed. The whole point is-

You can still, if your dick is hanging out- No, I'm telling you, dude, you wear it with these compression shorts. These shorts are crazy. They have all these straps in them, and it's all to suck that thing right up against your junk. Protect your hog, son. You don't. You need to do it not outside your pants. It's just too narrow, dude.

I'm not saying I got a big dick. I'm just saying it's thick. It's bigger than this. It's not that big. It's just thick. It's bigger than that. That's all you're saying but you should try it it's a good idea i commentate you don't need i commentated a match uh it was fernando vasconcellos and king of the cage in 2000 i forgot about fernando against shoney carter and shoney carter showed up with the cup like it looked like i actually said on the telecast i go you know uh

bob sap called he wanted his cup back. His cup was so tremendous. Like, that was a weapon. It was like something that you'd wear at, like, Mad Max and shit. You know what I mean? Like, anybody try to kick him in the balls and there's, like, blades and shit or something. It was huge. Well, when you roll with a guy who's got one on, a steel cup, and they get on top of you, you can feel that thing. It's like a weapon.

Like, they're fucking you. I hurt somebody's ribs pretty bad. Yeah, you hurt your sternum, your solar plexus. You want to get out of that thing. It's like a weapon. They're fucking you with their cup. Yeah, you hurt your sternum, your solar plexus. You want to get out of that position. And in arm bars, it's got to make a giant difference. It's a big chunk of metal. Knee bars. Yeah, there's like an

angle. There's an angle. You have a leverage point where your dick is. And how about you put a dude in a triangle and you put that angle on their face. How many times you put a dude in a triangle and you're like, his head's just in the wrong angle. Like if you pull his head, you're just like stuffing his head into your balls. That's a decision you have to make.

Is it worth it? I'm going to try to tap him with like an arm bar or something here. That was one of the matches I want to talk to you about is your Javi Vasquez match. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, that was such a slick submission, man, because you're known for your leg locks, and it's kind of like Javi was defending well, and Javi has really good defense anyway,

and then you switched it up and went for that triangle and caught the triangle on the side. That was beautiful. As I move forward with my matches and things, there's certain situations where I'm just at all costs trying to submit somebody and beat them in whatever way that I possibly can. Specifically in that match, I had every intention,

because I had just beaten a really good leglocker, Marcin Held, I had every intention of trying to not submit him with a leglock. Really? Yeah, I didn't want to, because I don't want to be known as just the guy that does leglocks. You know what I mean? I want to be known as a fucking killer on the match. I'm kidding. But you were still attempting them, though.

What if one of those, you caught them with early? I put one in, but I had no intention of finishing it. Really? I thought about finishing it and said, no, that's not what I want to do. So you decided to let it go? I tried six different times. I didn't let it go. He pushed out of it really hard.

What was I going to say? Multiple times I tried to set up an arm triangle from, um, we call it, uh, like a scoop scorpion, but it's a, what's it called? Um, lockdown, right? So from the lockdown position, trying to pass his arm across and set up arm triangles. Cause I've been practicing from bottom and top. Yeah. Um, that's what I'd been practicing in training. Uh, that's how I wanted to submit them, but it wasn't working out, but I'd also been practicing some triangle setups. Uh, so, you know, that's those two ways where I was kind of going back and forth between that, trying to submit them. When you set up the arm triangle from the bottom, do you try to finish

it from the bottom or do you sweep? I think my preferred finish, the absolute best for me, is to be slightly, to be on bottom, but to be on my hip as opposed to be facing up towards the sky. So side on to the person perpendicular. That's my favorite finish. But aside from that, finishing it just directly flat facing up I think is worse than finishing it on top. On top is better. Because you can move your hips. You can move and adjust.

Yeah, on top it's always better. You've got your weight. But on the bottom, the only way it's going to work on the bottom generally is you've got to have that lockdown in. Without the lockdown. Because if I have the lockdown and I have the arm triangle on the bottom, I'm just going to stay there and try to finish it from there. Don't you sometimes go sideways on a guy and you have the lockdown as well, which puts your knee at a really funky angle? Are you talking about arm triangle from stoner control when the leg comes all the way through

and you still hold the lockdown? It's like you're going to the vaporizer, but instead you go for the arm triangle instead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah, that's a precarious position. You get a lot of leverage from there. It's hard to set that one up because once you go through the leg, you still have the lockdown, and it's hard to reach.

You've got to really scoot up there, and he's got to kind of give it to you. It's hard to set that one up because you set it up if you let go of the lockdown and pass the guard because you're basically in a leg drag position with the lockdown. It's the same thing. You could pass and commit to that arm triangle. You could keep the lockdown and roll to a vaporizer, or you could get a vaporizer by just simply turning and then just sitting back nice and slow where there's no roll and you go to it.

Your match was interesting because when you guys were commentating on that match too, when you saw he got to that position on the side trying to set up that triangle, you got fired up. You're like, wow. The Javi match? Yeah. You're like, this is a bad situation. This is a bad spot.

I know that Gary, his guillotines are death. As far as I'm sure you have way more than I know, but I know, I've seen you. I know you got all around jujitsu-jitsu game, and I understand you, and I feel you don't want to be known as the leg lock guy because you do have. You're really good. Your guillotine is right up there with the top guys. And the way you get to the back, elite level, you got a lot of stuff going on. You have a very active game from the bottom.

Was it a shock to me. So you've been training essentially in Jiu-Jitsu for about nine years. Started out wrestling for about five. I believe it'll be eight years the day of his tournament. March 22nd is my Jiu-Jitsu anniversary. That's amazing that you've been able to have so much progress in such a short time. That's incredible. You must really

love it. You must be just fucking obsessed with Jiu-Jitsu. Since day one, for for sure I was just on the mats as much as possible I never really took any breaks just constantly training and competing as much as I possibly could do you remember what dragged you into it like what got you so excited about it yeah so at first just like the sport I didn't know it existed until I was like 14 and my buddy was like hey yeah I do this thing it's kind of like wrestling where you get to strangle people until I was like 14. And my buddy was like, hey, yeah, I do this thing. It's kind of like wrestling where you get to strangle people. And I was like, get out of here.

That's bullshit. Nobody lets that happen. I was like, you're a kid. Nobody lets two kids try and strangle each other. You didn't know about the UFC? No, not at that time. Wow, that's crazy. I had no idea.

So this is like 2004, 2005? Yeah, I was living with my mom. She was a single parent. Not that she would have disapproved of that or anything like that, but it's not like it would have been something I would have been brought interest to. They didn't talk about it at school or anything? Maybe you heard about it, but didn't look into it? Yeah, no, it wasn't a big part of the culture that I was in.

You know what I mean? So, yeah, nobody ever really brought it up until my one friend that happened to be training jiu-jitsu. Once I learned about that, that's when I started learning about UFC and stuff like that. You know, I hadn't really, you know, experienced any of that. So that's what got me into the sport, but not like obsessed with it. I was like, I was like, wow, that sounds really cool. Went to a competition. I was like, that's the coolest fucking thing ever. My mom was not about it. She was like, yeah, that's not okay. You can't do that. But eventually, you know, I convinced her. not okay. You can't do that. But eventually, you know, I convinced her. And then what really kept pushing me forward was one turning point moment where I was training with Tom the Blast,

my instructor. And actually, I was training with somebody else first. And I was trying to escape a triangle. And Tom comes over to help me, like to try and help me get out of the triangle. I wasn't doing it properly. And I was like, he gave me advice and then i go oh yeah but you know i usually do this like like in a very like standoffish like talking back sort of a way like a like a child would you know what i mean so i talked back to him and it was really bad like disrespectful you know in whatever way i said it so tom goes oh okay let's train you know let's see how well you get out of the triangle then. Let's go. So he trains with me for a grand total of about 35 minutes, I would say. Every two to five minutes after he would, like, submit me multiple times,

he would say, do you want to stop? And every time I was like, no, because I didn't think my beating was done. Like, I thought I deserved to get the shit kicked out of me. So you knew that you had said something. Yeah, I knew right from the get-go I fucked up. So he starts training with me. The end of the match leads to a sternum bruise the size of Iron Man's

fucking circle on his chest. Like, G-Burn, like, bloody cuts all over my face from fucking G-Burn. Literally, it was definitely child abuse. Could have been arrested if I complained, but I would, but I would never, you know, because I deserved it. And it made me stronger person. But after that, it was like that, that that pie may experience where, you know, in Kill Bill volume two, she's like, Beatrice is getting the shit

kicked out of her by pie may. And she's like being held down by the arm, like, do you want this power, you know, that sort of thing. And, you know, I by the arm like do you want this power you know that sort of thing and uh you know I wanted that power to be able to fucking you know have control over my fate have control over you know being able to you know defend myself against another person be able to um you know act in that way and then from that point on I was in love with jiu-jitsu eventually you know in love with competing and wanting to uh teach and all that stuff. Is that what you do to all your white belts? No, no, I don't. That's a good idea.

I probably should, though. If I wanted more. Actually, I do do that to my student that I'm trying to bring up, Gordon Ryan. I beat the crap out of him as much as possible and try to demean him and make him just feel horrible about himself. Just keep him on the DL. You know what? Big brother him that way one day. Like Henzo always says that.

You know, even his brothers that are younger than him, that are better than him, he's like, I'm always their big brother. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I try my best. I think that's how you make people good, man. There's something to that for sure, but there's also something to just like being really lucky and having a great instructor. Yeah.

You know, when a kid has an instructor like you that's so passionate about the game, like one of the hardest parts about jujitsu in the day was finding a real good instructor. Eddie and I got super lucky. We found Jean-Jacques Machado. But if you didn't find him, if you were in the middle of nowhere, South Dakota, and there's no good instruction, it's hard. It's hard to find a really good instructor. It's such a big deal to have a good camp.

When you have a 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu or Henzo's Academy or Art of Jiu-Jitsu. This is like these big Jiu-Jitsu places where all these killers come from. It's such a giant advantage. It's so huge. We're so lucky here in Southern California. I mean, what's better as far as locations on Earth

than Jiu-Jitsu in Southern California? Thank God the Brazilians like the beach. They love it, man. And Miami, too, right? Miami, yeah, when you find the ones that are like, fuck, man, I'm going to go to Toronto. There's a lot of guys up there, man. Like, Salo went to Ohio for a little bit. And I remember thinking, man, a Brazilian in Ohio?

How long is that going to last? They rotate. They rotate. George Gurgel's been up there for a long time. But he's like an American Brazilian, though. He's white. Well, how about fucking Gabriel Gonzaga? It happened.

He's in western Massachusetts, man. He's in the middle of nowhere. He's in Ludlow, I think, is what the name of the place is. See, these places make people stronger. You guys in California don't know pain and suffering. You guys are going to live in this nice weather all the time. To go from Rio to that part of western Massachusetts where Gonzaga lives, fuck. Yeah, man.

Fuck. You went from one of the most beautiful spots on earth to a place for six months that sucks a fat plate of dicks. Have you ever been to Rio? What else do you have to do besides train, man? Have you ever been to Brazil? There's so much other things to do here. What's that? Have you been to Brazil?

No, not yet. I'm looking forward to it for this next 80 season. Oh, you're going to 80? There's so much other things to do here. What's that? Have you been to Brazil? No, not yet. I'm looking forward to it for this next ADC season. Oh, you're going to ADC? Oh, shit. I mean, they haven't put out official invites yet. That's Sao Paulo, right?

Hopefully. Oh, you're in, 100%. We'll see. Gio's in. He qualified. So I'll be there for sure. It's going to be in Sao Paulo August 28th and August 29th.

I'm there. A bunch of 10th Planet guys are going, man. It's going to be awesome. You should go Reserve that weekend I wonder if I can Gio's gonna fucking

Be in Abu Dhabi Let me see if I can I don't know what my My friend He might go against Rafa Mendes It might be Gio Against Rafa

You never know Like what's gonna happen there Depends how they seat him Yeah There's so many good guys These days It's really It's really interesting

Gio seriously Is on another level man Is on another level, man. He's on another level right now. You were saying that his breakdancing strength is coming from the breakdancing world. Yesterday I did an Inside BJJ podcast, and they asked me, what is the single most important attribute to jiu-jitsu? You only have one attribute. And my answer initially was I would like to say open-mindedness, true open-mindedness,

but there's a lot of closed-minded guys out there that are the best in the world. So it can't be that. That's a good point. It can't be that. It's a really good point. So I thought about it for two seconds, and it has to be athleticism. Athleticism, you get a guy coming in who's been doing gymnastics his whole life, and he's high level. That guy's going to get really good at jiu-jitsu in one month.

In one month. And that's Gio and his brother Boogie. Both of them just really quick got their black belts. Their athleticism is just off the charts. Yeah, they could do the craziest shit with their hands, standing on their hands, spinning around, landing, their balance. Their core strength is off the charts. And the crazy thing is Gio got so good so quick. landing their balance their their core strength is off the charts and and the

crazy thing is geo got so good so quick he got his you know he's got his black belt like Cabrinha did I got his black belt three and a half years he did capoeira his whole life that's athleticism breakdancing the kind of breakdancing geo does that's athleticism that's like super hyper super evolved breakdancing yeah it's crazy so it it doesn't, he got so, his black belt so quick, but his rise isn't stopping. It's not like, okay, he caught up and that's it. That athleticism that got him that black belt so quick

is going to take him to the next level quicker. And those higher levels quicker. He is getting better all the, isn't enough to beat someone like Jafa Mendes because Jafa Mendes is unreal, unreal. Jafa Mendes defense, no one ever does anything to him. Anytime he loses, it's on some advantage or something if he loses. Other than that, you can't do anything to him.

You know, there's matches of him or roles with him with Andre Gaval, who's way bigger than him, and he's tapping Andre Gaval. Keaton Cornelius, there's a match online. He's way bigger than Hafa. Hafa got him. Amazing. I know there bigger than Hoffa. Hoffa got him. I know there's other matches where maybe Keenan taps him, but apparently no one's tapping him. That is the top guy

in the world at 145 in ADCC. We'll see if Gio's ready for that. Maybe Hoffa smashes Gio. We don't know. Maybe it's too soon right now. Maybe it's going to take another three or four years to catch up. We're going to find out. And I really believe Gio is on another level.

I roll with him all the time, man. And I can't do shit to him no more, man. I'm like, fuck this guy. And he's lighter than me. I got 20 pounds on him. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing what we learned, too, that break dancing is a doorway to jiu-jitsu. Fuck, yes.

Gymnastics. Everybody always knew wrestling, of course. His first month, he was all over dudes. Like, holy shit. Sean Bollinger brought him over to me and said, dude, this guy is on another level. And he has a breakdancing crew called The Freak Show. And all of those guys were doing jiu-jitsu.

And they all got good, all of them really quick. But Gio and Boogie are the only ones that stuck with it. The other breakdancers just went back to breakdancing. They dabbled in it for like a year and a half and got really good. All of them really good right away. Professional jujitsu in six months. We're like, holy fuck. There's, there's moves that you do in break dancing that require like insane balance and coordination and strength. Like Steve Maxwell had me do these crazy workouts the other day where you're doing like this push-up, and then you pick one hand up, and then you put one leg up, and then you lift the other knee off the ground by two inches, and you're holding it there.

So one leg's forward. You're in like a Superman position, right? You're holding yourself up with one hand and one foot on the other side, and your knee is off the ground, and the leg is up, and the hand is up, and you're just holding it. It's insanely difficult. You've got to show me after up and you're just holding it It's insanely difficult now. You gotta show me after I'll show you it's insanely difficult But then you think about what these guys are doing they're standing on one hand They're spinning around with their legs up in the air

It's not it's not that old-school standard basic break dancing that you saw it's true. It's geo their style is They do crazy weird things. They're always evolving and new moves. And that translates to jujitsu to me better than wrestling, better than gymnastics. I've never seen it. That's crazy. I've seen him from day one. I've seen him come up.

And what he's doing is, and he's just getting started. This is just the beginning of Gio. Cut to Gary Tonin break dancing. I see you do. You bring your paper moves, your cardboard with you. You lay that shit out. You start. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gary's very athletic. His athleticism is off the charts, too. He's doing backflips like it's nothing, right? He can do a lot of crazy. He's doing flying, rolling Kimuras. He's doing that flying. What do you call it? Scissor take.

He's doing all sorts. He's very aerial. So his athleticism is off the charts as well. What's your ultimate goal? Do you have goals that you've set for yourself as far as your competition career, what you want to achieve? Yeah, I think the main goal right now is to bring submission grappling to that level we're talking about to where it's an exciting spectator sport that people can get paid to do,

and it's like a career. That's obviously, personally, that's kind of my goal, but it's kind of a goal for the sport in the same sense. It's just perfect timing. ADCC is obviously a big goal. It's coming up. You're hotter than ever. You're the

shining star of Metamorris. EBI welterweight champion and we're doing the welterweight championship. It's like everything just aligned perfectly, man. I'm like, fuck, I'm lucky that I listened to Scotty Nelson

and brought Gary Tonin in. I'm lucky, man. I really do appreciate it. Thanks for having me be a part of it, man. I do. I appreciate this tremendously, man. I have to ask you about this

because people keep bringing it up. I hear you have a terrible diet. Oh, yeah, yeah. Is that true? Yeah. Vegans everywhere hate me. I don't know what it is, but why do they hate you? Well, see, I took so metamorphosis, the guys that, you know, videotaped like the pre fight, whatever BS, right? So they're like, okay,

watch a couple of videos that we did in the past. And it's like Braulio and Adolfo. And both of them are talking about their diet. Like, oh, yeah, I just eat a little bit of grass and some leaves, and now I've become big and strong. It's like, come on, man. Are you serious? Adolfo just eats chia seeds all day? Just papaya, my friend. Come on, man. Acai.

You know what I mean? So anyway, I was just like, all right, these guys really have this clean diet. I'll give them the real look at what my diet is really like, you know? And for me, because I'm in between trainings all the time and stuff like that, it's just like, I eat whatever I can and I need a high dense amount of calories all the time. So it's like cheeseburgers and pizza and stuff like that. I just, you know, that's my main bulk of my diet. Now, when I wake up, I know how to eat healthy, you know, like I, when I wake up, I do the right things. I eat a lot of fiber. Do you make sure you get a lot of nutrients, though?

Do you take supplements? I definitely take vitamins and things. Occasionally, I'll pop in a few vegetables here and there. So you don't eat many vegetables, for real? Yeah, not on a real daily basis, that's for sure. Me neither, man. I'm the same way.

I eat a little salad every day, but a little bullshit El Pollo Loco salad or something, you know? Dude, I swear to God, if you just give it a shot, just try drinking kale shakes in the morning. Have a kale shake instead of what you normally have for breakfast. It tastes like dog shit. Nice. It tastes like Satan's pre-cum.

That's what it tastes like. Will that cover my vegetables for the day? Yeah. I would imagine it would cover your vegetables for the day. Really? Okay. That seems... I'm on it. You mix up some garlic.

You mix up some ginger, like a hunk of ginger, like a half a pager. Remember what a pager was like? Cut a pager in half, throw that in the blender. Remember, it sounds too hard. Kale, celery. Yeah, exactly. There's so much effort that just went into explaining it.

How about Garden of Life chocolate flavor? Is that good enough Garden of Life? I mean, look, all those things are good. Like, there's earth-grown nutrients that Onnit has. Garden of Life has a bunch of drinks they sell. Garden of Life is legit? Very legit. Okay.

Good stuff. It's definitely better than not having it, but the best shit you can get is fresh vegetables. That's the best shit. Fresh vegetables with garlic, some fruit, like maybe pineapple or apple, some coconut oil, mix all that shit up together in a blend. He's kicking everyone's ass. He's kicking everyone's ass. You're a bad motherfucker.

I'm not saying- You're going to be fine. You're a bad motherfucker. I'm not saying that me eating shitty is leading to me winning or vice versa. I definitely think that for long-term health, I mean, I study exercise science. I have a degree in exercise science. Like, you know, we had nutrition classes and everything like that. And it's clearly, you know, for, for like your long-term health, like eating well is like the right thing to do just as much as exercising is the right thing to do.

But in terms of just my ability to do so on a day-to-day basis with my training schedule and with everything else, this is very, very difficult. That makes sense but i don't take as much stock into it as some people believe like oh this is going to be that deciding factor that 0.1 that's going to make you beat you know so and so i don't truly believe that you know um because uh i mean ultimately if i lose because my diet wasn't good that day or whatever the case may be. I really just don't feel like I was that good at jujitsu to begin with. Like I should be making improvements in jujitsu. Not, you know, not, not that I know, like I said, it's, it's important, but like not for, not for, it's not going to be the deciding factor between me beating somebody or not beating them.

That makes sense. That's just silly. That makes sense in some ways, but in some ways it doesn't. Cause if you think about like, you don't have the ultimate optimal Conditioning right you don't have the ultimate. There's always room for improvement right there's room for improvement in your coordination There's always room for improvement in your technique sure those things are resume for improvement How could it not be room for improvement in your new tissue nutritional technique? I what technique? There's certainly your body certainly so you use room for improvement in mine, but yeah Don't you think there's like a technique to giving yourself the right amount of carbohydrates at a certain time? The right amount of protein at a certain time? It's a couple of things.

He's young and his body has a crazy metabolism. And he's not being put in positions where he's getting dragged out into deep waters and he's getting tired. And now it's the end. It's like a 20-minute match. You're at minute 17 and he's getting tired and now it's the end. It's like a 20 minute match. You're at minute 17 and he's going against Marcelo Garcia. Then maybe that's where the diet is going to come into play. But right now he's blowing through everybody.

So it is a matter of each ding dong. But that's what I'm saying. It doesn't kind of make sense saying that a guy beats you, wouldn't have beaten you because of your nutrition. I think for the most part. Sorry, go ahead. No, I was going to say like the Krohn-Grie fight like the end of the fight was was it just his superior technique or was it a combination of being exhausted yeah me massive expenditure of energy from both at that point i was just in a really really bad spot i mean the guy had my back with like a body triangle

i stood up trying to last stitch efforts to trying to defend the choke it had nothing to do with it had nothing to do with my conditioning or anything like that. Was I tired at that point? I can't even remember, but I don't think I was tired. I think I was just in a really shitty spot, and that's why I ended up tapping out, because I thought I was about to go unconscious. Not because I was tired or exhausted.

I think if you put me in the same situation at a complete 100% right before the match, I wouldn't have gotten out any better than I did there, really. But yeah, man, I agree it makes a difference, but not... Not enough for you to stay away from pizza. It's too good. I feel you. It's too good. I'm inspired.

I feel better about myself. If I had tons of money and the ability to do that, like, oh, I gotta hire somebody to follow me around and feed me good shit all the time. 100% I would, but that doesn't exist. Yeah, but you wouldn't want that anyway. That guy would be annoying. You'd have to fire him. How do I get rid of this guy?

Stop telling me to get the fuck away from the pizza. Stop it. No, for sure. Hey, man, get away from that pizza, bro. You got to train later today. Bro, we got to keep our lyco-nupids up on a very high level. I think the human body is an amazing thing, to be honest. And I think that it takes pretty much whatever the fuck you put inside of it

and turns it into what it needs to be. Well, you know who was notorious for eating a cheeseburger before every fucking game? It was Michael Jordan. That was like his ritual. He would go to Burger King or McDonald's, rather, and he'd get a Big Mac, maybe two, and he would eat them before every game. Michael Jordan? Michael motherfucking Jordan would eat Big Macs.

There you go. What'd you say, Jamie? You're talking while people are talking, Jamie. Bang, bang. Boom. What? Steak and potatoes. Steak and potatoes what?

That's what he ate every day. Yeah, but he ate cheeseburgers before matches. GSP's like that too. Hold on a second. I'm going to Google this shit. You're a big Jordan fan? Yes, his pregame meal is a giant steak and fake potatoes. In 2000, when I commentated for Pride 10,

Mark Kerr, I met him at the airport at McDonald's, and he was killing McDonald's. I videotaped and everything just to prove that, look at this athlete eating this crap. Because I have to keep proving to people that McDonald's isn't that bad for you. Oh, it's definitely horrible. No, it is, but it tastes so good. Is it going to drastically affect my athletic performance unless I eat it 10 seconds beforehand? No.

Every Friday, my mom would take us to McDonald's when she got paid on Friday. So it was like a treat. Oh, yeah. Being raised as going to McDonald's. This is what we've been waiting for all week. This is Jay saying, okay, I'm incorrect here. He ate the same meal before every game. A 23-ounce

steak, a baked potato, and a ginger ale. That's not bad. Big difference. That's a big difference. That's healthy. Well, why did I hear that it was a fucking cheeseburger, man? God damn it. Who the hell was that?

Was that somebody else? Sponsored by McDonald's. Oh, so it was a lie? It was like one of those things they spread out? Might have been. Oh, okay. So this is, is this like things that are just like, okay. He once punched Steve someone, Steve Kerr in the face during practice.

We don't need to see all that shit. But, okay. So forget what I said. I was trying to say his fucking diet wasn't that good. So we got to take that one back. His diet seems pretty good. Yeah. Some people would take that and say that his diet's not that good with a piece of steak.

Was it grass fed? Yeah, probably not that good with a piece of steak. Was it grass-fed? Yeah, probably not. Of course not. Probably not. So it's just a slightly higher grade of beef. And what do you think of that Carl's Jr. burger now? The natural burger? It says no steroids, no added hormones.

Yeah, it's supposed to be grass-free, right? Grass-fed. Grass-fed. You know what, man? Look, what a piece of meat is, we have all these attachments to what it is, but it's protein and water. There's good aspects to some of the, like you get healthier fats from grass-fed meat because you get a healthier animal. It's definitely better for you.

It's probably more nutritionally dense for you. But you can get by on regular burgers. You can get by on regular steak. It's still good for your body. Human body is an amazing on regular steak. It's still good for your body. Human body is an amazing thing. Yeah, it's still good for your body. I mean, your body is taking that animal protein, and it's breaking it down, and it's making muscle with it. It just does.

And the idea that it doesn't because it's a steak and the steak's bad for you, that's stupid. It's a potato. Potatoes are good for you. You see a baked potato? That's really good for you. Baked potato is the best way. There's vitamin C and potassium in baked potato. As a matter of fact, I think there's more potassium in a baked potato he ate? That's really good for you. Baked potato is the best way. There's vitamin C and potassium in baked potato. As a matter of fact, I think there's more potassium in a baked potato than a banana.

Yep. Yeah. So that's all healthy shit. The people who don't think that's healthy are people that have an agenda. They're like either vegans or they want to promote some really radical idea of nutrition. My favorite comment on the pre- the pre metamorphs video was Gary Tony needs to stop eating cheeseburgers and buy some proactive What's proactive like for all that zits or whatever? Oh, yes, oh how dare they yeah, how rude it's awesome

Do you use anything like defense soap do you fuck with that stuff? Uh yeah for a while I you know I key soap was giving me some stuff I haven't I haven't had anybody defense hope is the best the best best you know they just sent me a box of it I get I panic when I get low I use um such good soap too there's like that stuff that's like a surgical scrub that you use she that shit ain't good for you dude no no that antibiotic soaps not good for you because it kills your natural skin flora the stuff that they use for hospitals man that's like intense antibiotics.

Yeah. What they try to do... I only use it for my face just because of the zits and everything. Even then, man, it might be causing zits. Doesn't proactive work, though?

It's not the only... I use it for... I use it for a little bit. It worked all right, but I mean... When you're 23, sometimes nothing works. You can only use something

for so long and it just gets fucking... Whatever. Just wash my face every once in a while and do what I need to do. I used to have a friend who worked as a fry later cook. This motherfucker had the worst zits I've ever seen in my life.

A lot of times it's environmental. When you're grappling all the time. When you're beating ass. Oh, yeah. When you're famous for choking people out and breaking legs. It don't matter if you have zits. Eddie Bravo says it doesn't matter, so don't worry about it. Just keep winning.

Just keep winning. That's the plan anyway. That's what I was going to focus on instead of my beauty. I don't know how it goes with zits, but I know with your skin, it's actually important to not use that antibacterial soap. And they also say you shouldn't shower any closer than a half an hour before you train, because it takes your body time to reestablish the skin floor. Oh, yeah, like the antibodies.

Guy Sacco wrote a whole thing about that. This is a guy who owns D-Friend Soap. He wrote a whole thing about that on the, I think it was on the underground. So you're not supposed to take a shower before you roll? No, no. Oh, don't put that out there. Now people are going to show up stinking.

No, just stick it. It's got to be more than a half an hour. More than a half an hour for your skin health. Yeah. And probiotics? You fuck with probiotics? Only to settle my stomach occasionally, not for the

For the prevention of like skin study Bravo preaches that Get rigged were remember. I've gotten it a few times. It's not like a consistent problem like some people have with it You know got staffed once so I wasn't you know I caught it before it was serious I don't know how some people like let go to the point where it's a fucking hole in your skin. Like this big. Dude, as soon as I felt a big swollen fucking pimple, I was like, yeah, it's probably staff. I should go get

that looked at. I started to get sick. I was like, yeah. Seems about right. I don't know how people don't get that shit checked out. Some people are not too new to their body, man. I told you the Ari Shafir story, right? We were playing pool and he was limping. I'm like, why are you limping, man? He's like, I got a spider bite in my knee.

I go, what? I go, let me see your leg. And I go, dude, that's staff. You got to go to a doctor right now. His knee was all swollen and it was like a zit. And I was like, holy shit, dude, this is ugly. Eddie has a good story about this. He's training with a dude that had like a giant hole in his, well, he didn't actually

train with him because as soon as he saw the fucking hole it was like let me stay the fuck away from that guy he's like dude what's wrong with your you definitely have staff man he's like he's like you should go to the doctor he's like yeah i've been rubbing some like honey on it and stuff i'm really not into like you know the doctor i'm like into like natural remedies and stuff you know just gonna keep putting honey on it it's gonna be fine that's those anti-vaccine betters those anti-vaccine dudes he's dead right now but it's better for the human race because you know do we really want that to keep living on brian callan his friend's wife died from staph infection and she tried to teach treat it naturally

and holistically they were like doing like all these different weird things and he said he came over the house and he said she looked like death and her gums were pale and he was like jesus fucking christ get her to the doctor, man. Get her to a hospital. They take her to a hospital. It's too late. They get her on the IV drip. They're trying to give her IV antibiotics.

This is why people died at like 25 years old, 30 years old, because they didn't do this. Exactly. And especially MRSA, like the medication resistant. There's a bunch of different strains of staph that are really difficult to deal with. Yeah. I'm just going to keep rubbing honey on it. It'll be fine. Yeah.

Just take some parsley. Yeah. You hit it with the parsley. Yeah. Perfect. Fine. Those homeopathic motherfuckers are scary. You got to be real careful with that shit.

There's sometimes you need medicine, bitch. Yep. Medicine. Fucking. Like if you get syphilis, don't try to pray that shit away. Okay, you need penicillin motherfucker Penicillin don't go out like Al Capone. All right, they figure that out. They figured it out, right? Use the smart dudes knowledge. Yeah, man It's like you don't just jump into jiu-jitsu as a fucking raw white belt try to reinvent the game

Yeah, right. You shouldn't do that with medicine either yep non-medicine heaven motherfucker yeah try to rub honey on your staff bitch that doesn't work yeah okay if it did we would fucking use that yeah if that was the number one move is to rub honey on it man yeah you know um our friend bud uh his mom has uh cancer and she's been been taking cannabis therapy for it. And, you know, they attribute it to a bunch of different things. But one of them being that she stopped doing chemotherapy and it's at the same time she started doing this cannabis and her tumor shrunk by like 30% over a period of just a few weeks.

They don't know if it was the combination of the chemotherapy and the cannabis oil, but they know that the cannabis oil has a big, big effect on it. And I've been talking to so many people that know people with cancer that have also gone that route and have started taking cannabis oil, that Rick Simpson's oil, and a bunch of different CBD oils. It's amazing what I'm hearing about that. Did you see that Vice documentary on the measles virus and the HIV virus? Isn't that incredible?

They're using the measles virus and hiv virus to kill cancer and it's so far it's working 90 percent wow it's amazing yeah we live in good times man and hbo decided to put that episode on youtube for free so that uh their gift to the world that's showing the the progress they've made it it seems like they've cured cancer that's what it seems like well if not i mean they're certainly making giant leaps and bounds from where they were just a decade ago. The measles virus kills cancer. How crazy is that? And HIV.

Yeah, it's nuts. What? Yeah. It's crazy. But you get really sick because they take you through it. And when they gave them this measles virus, they get really going to comas. It almost seems like they're going to die. But they were going to die anyways with the cancer.

And then they wake up from the coma and then they're cancer free. That's bananas. We live in crazy times, man. Yeah. What do you think? This is the last question. Cause we're almost out of time,

right? Yeah. Five left, five minutes. Um, what do you think about, uh, performance enhancing drugs?

Cause that is a big issue with jujitsu. You know, Steve Maxwell was just raving about it the other day. He's like, they need to do that in jujitsu. There's too many guys that are on the, yeah. What do you think? Um, yeah. Cause it's notitsu you know Steve Maxwell was just raving about it the other day he's like they need to do that jujitsu there's too many guys that are on the yeah yeah cuz it's not you know in any sense I mean they have like some light testing that they do for like IBJJF but it's like one of those situations again where like if people know what to do like you know they have

enough they have advanced notice of the event coming up they know if they could be tested whatever they pee after the event is that what it is what's that they pee after the event is it urine it is What's that they pee after the event is it urine? Uh yeah, they test randomly like ten dudes or something like that Oh, that's it. Yes. It's something stupid. I mean it's a step in a direction, but um yeah I mean it's clearly rampant You know as to what to do about it like you either need to there's there's only two routes There's one you just don't do do anything. And then everybody has their option to use it or not use it, which

whatever. Obviously the people that choose not to are going to suffer in terms of the disadvantage and not the strength. And then the other way to go about it is you have to do it fucking right and just have random testing all the time in a way where people can't fucking cheat it. You know what I mean? Because if some

camps get really, which is what happens in MMA, some camps get really, really good at figuring out what the ways are to cheat the tests or this, that, and the other thing, and then other guys aren't going to fucking go through that, I mean, it gives those guys an advantage over the other guys that aren't. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. So it's, I mean, dude, I mean, in a perfect world, it's like, yeah, let's get rid of it,

but it just seems like there's always a way to fucking hide it or an always way to do whatever So I'm just gonna keep trying to get better at jiu-jitsu and you know, hopefully that saves me instead of bulging biceps We'll see well We've also seen a bunch of guys who jiu-jitsu guys that got into MMA and then got caught when they got into MMA Yeah, they get tested a little bit more thoroughly and it turns out they were probably using it the entire time Yeah, just ton. There's tons of that for sure jiu-jitsu mma whatever the case may be you know what do you think about this situation that mma finds itself in right now i mean looking at mma you know as a future prospect you know getting involved yeah and you see all this you know all

these guys are get tested positive it's kind of freaky something that ronda rousey said was kind of interesting about the idea that like oh this isn't like baseball where we're using steroids to hit a ball harder. We're using steroids and people are fucking getting knocked the fuck out. You know what I mean? And that's scary. In the sense that people are getting stronger and stronger and have the ability to do serious damage to people. So in that sense, yeah, I mean, in a martial art, I think that's super dangerous. You know, I just, you know, I don't know what the answer is

You know what I mean in terms of what they should do or whatever the case may be with PDS But just because there's and it's not even just steroids There's tons of other stuff people can be taking EPOs and all different kinds of things, you know Well, there was an article recently online where they were saying that these businessmen these middle-aged businessmen are taking EPO and winning cycling races just Entering into amateur cycling races on EPO and winning them Yeah, yeah, it just gives you just such a giant advantage when you're dealing with someone who has some cycling you are cycling So you have the muscle strength and then all of a sudden you have this superhuman endurance. Yeah, it's fucked. It's fucked It's weird and it's weird that it's so many MMA fighters are testing positive for it now.

EPO? Well, Ali Bagutinov, who fought for the title against Mighty Mouse Johnson, he tested positive for EPO. Shane Mosley tested positive for EPO back in the day. You think that's really, you know, you'd say, I mean, people always say, a large percentage of professional athletes are on steroids, da-da-da. Do you think a large percentage of them are on EPO as well? Because cardio is so huge.

I know of many that have been on EPO. I know of many that were on EPO back in the day. At least I know from the anecdotal stories that I heard from people that trained with them that there was guys that would take shit. It's the Wild West, man. Do you shoot EPO or eat it? That's a good question. I think they have a pill form now, though.

Really? Yeah, I think so. I couldn't be wrong about that, but I think they've made major advances. They used to have to do blood transfusions in order to do it properly. Yeah, well, there's still guys, I'm sure, that blood dope. I'm sure they do that because there's no test for that. When you take your own blood out of your body, you make weight. Your body has that blood regenerated in your body, and then you add more blood to your body.

You have more oxygen carrying capability. Doesn't it take two weeks, though, for your body to make that blood? It's a good question. I don't know how long it takes, but guys could easily get a blood transfusion two weeks out. As a matter of fact, that would give you plenty of time to recover. If you wanted to do that, say if you take Saturday and Sunday off, you train all week, you just say, okay, I'm going to getusion friday i'm gonna or a blood uh withdrawal they're gonna take my blood out friday you know you have the weekend to recover you go back on monday you start

training again and then they hold on to that blood for two weeks and then jack that shit back in your system you would most certainly have some sort of a performance advantage from that and i don't think they can detect that. I really don't. Yeah. That was what the bikers used to do. That was what all the cyclists used to do. It's just, it's a fascinating time where people are learning more and more about how to cheat and then how to stop cheating.

Yeah. You know, like the shit that Hector Lombard got caught for, I've never even heard of it before. It's some designer steroid that was like really expensive exotic shit yeah that it was like that clear stuff that um barry bonds and the victor conte stuff where they thought that nobody knew how to detect it yeah i don't know man it's tricky it's very tricky but ronda's point is as valid as fuck yeah it's a different thing you're you're there are landing punches that you probably wouldn't be able to land you're doing damage especially when you're dealing with some sort of a war where one person surges and comes

on at the end and stops that person. Yeah. That's probably a big part of it. Yep. Eddie Bravo's feet are on the table. Oh, is that bad? It might be time to end this fucking podcast. I'm just stretching.

I'm stretching. What if someone drops a chip and has to eat your fucking heel skin? I just showered. Excuse me. This is where people eat and they drink coffee. This is not for you to put your feet. Sorry. Sorry.

It's fucking jiu-jitsu people. We're fucking savages, dude. Especially Eddie. Eddie's always got his feet out the window, his feet on mirrors and shit. Sitting against walls when there's chairs in. I'm surprised I'm not sitting against a fucking wall right now. He's always double lotus. Yeah.

I'm paranoid. Tomorrow, Eddie Bravo Invitational only live on pay-per-view budovideos.com slash EBI slash EBI 4pm

Pacific Standard Time 7pm Easter good googly moogly and Gary Tonin will be there throwing the fuck down

16 man tournament and Gary's returning champion he's got a lot of killers Darryl O'Connell he beat you in the BJJ yeah in the he guillotined me Fuck down. 16-man tournament, and Gary's the returning champion. He's got a lot of killers, man. Darryl O'Connell, he beat you in the BJJ Kumite. Yeah, in the Gi, he guillotined me way back in the day when we were brown belts.

Okay, so maybe it's a rematch. We'll see. If you live in Los Angeles tomorrow, it's at the Orpheum Theater in downtown LA. You can get tickets there. Can you get tickets off your website? EddieBravoInvitational.com. You can get tickets. Look at this, goddammit. This isvitational.com. You can get tickets. Look at this.

God damn it. This is fucking chaos. $10,000 grand prize. I dare anyone to watch this and tell me this is not exciting. This is some crazy shit. And this one, this is all about encouraging urgency. So what I did was, is winner take all. It's like a game show.

No one else gets paid, just the winner, to ensure urgency. And each, so the winner has to win four matches, and he only gets paid on the matches he wins in regulation. So there's $2,500 per match. So it's a possible $10,000 that he could win. And this is, it's only going to get bigger and bigger. We're going to go $50,000, we're going to go $100,000, eventually a million. Boom, that's it.

Eddie Bravo Invitational is going down tomorrow at the Orpheum Theater. The Orpheum Theater, I'll say it again, in downtown L. Boom. That's it. Eddie Bravo Invitational. It's going down tomorrow at the Orpheum Theater. The Orpheum Theater. I'll say it again. In downtown LA. Again, budovideos.com forward slash EBI. You can follow Eddie on Twitter. It's Eddie Bravo, all one word. You can follow Gary Tonin on Twitter.

It's Gary, two R's, underscore T-O-N-O-N. Gary, thank you very much, man. I'm looking forward to seeing you fight tomorrow. I should say compete tomorrow. It's going to be fucking nuts. It's going to be nuts. It's going to be awesome. This is your first event that you're going to go to

or going to see live on pay-per-view. You will not be disappointed. There are some motherfucking savages at this. Thanks to everybody tuning in. Thanks to Defense Soap. You guys are the shit. DefenseSoap.com.

And we'll see you next week. Much love. Big kiss. Dude, I've been...