The Joe Rogan Experience - #631 - Josh Barnett

Episode Date: March 27, 2015

Josh Barnett is an MMA fighter, currently fighting in the UFC Heavyweight division.

Go. Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. Yeehaw, ladies and gentlemen, international man of leisure, and the first ever, the youngest ever, UFC heavyweight champion, Josh Barnett, ladies and gentlemen. I highly stress leisure.

They can't take that from you. No, they can't. No, because I'm laying on top of it right now with a bag of Oreos and my feet propped up on a lovely lady. Unless some Mike Tyson-type character comes around and wins it at 20, you got that shit locked up. I don't really see that happening. It's weird, isn't it? The heavyweight division is weird. Well, ever since a lot of that drug testing came into play,

It's weird, isn't it? The heavyweight division is weird. Well, ever since a lot of that drug testing came into play, you're not going to see an 18-year-old roll up into the UFC at over 200 and some odd pounds and just start laying into people. Isn't it possible, though, like one of those freak athletes that would normally make it into the NFL, maybe he's got a dad that's been a martial arts instructor his whole life, that kind of thing?

Sure. I kind of thing. Sure. I could see it. But then again, the pull is if you could make it into the NFL, you're almost, okay, I'm going to take all that money now and play in the NFL. And then if I feel like being a fighter, I'll do that. Right. Like Herschel Walker did. Like Herschel Walker did. Although, I mean mean he is a freak

of freak of freaks I mean when you look at Herschel he shouldn't be in the kind of shape he is at his age yeah and he says he eats like a bowl of soup and a salad every day a Snickers bar or something yeah he's got some weird thing going on too though he has multiple personality disorder that's trauma induced hmm maybe one of those personalities eats while the other one doesn't know about it. The other one's working out all the time. And so you're getting all your caloric needs from one guy, and the other guy's doing all the working out. The other dude jerks you off.

Then you have the one dude that does your taxes. Right. It could be a useful thing. It would definitely be a useful thing for your mind. If you compartmentalize like that, you could really pretend you don't jerk off and really pretend that you don't eat and you just have a bowl of Salad in the soup and your fucking Superman. I barely even lift weights Meanwhile you got fucking white powder over your hand from chalk from Olympic lifting Calluses where you getting those calluses from man? I don't know what you're talking about man. That ain't me

That's Mike a bunch of engine blocks out in the front yard all overturned mike lives this part of my brain yeah back here mike did it yeah he was unbelievable he was like 48 or 49 his last fight in strike force and he just looks like a fucking greek god yeah that's the kind of guy that i don't even think science could make be that well you know what i mean like there are guys out there that like uh i have a buddy mike o'hearn right he's 40 i don't know 46 something like that and he's a family friend from way back in the day he's from uh uh juanita redmond washington originally he's friends with my my brother-in-law he everybody we all know him known for a long time ridiculous shape he can get up to i don't know 285 still fairly lean pull 700 pounds off the floor 800 pounds just ridiculous amount of strength then he can go

ahead and shred down to 244 something because of 242 to do some photo shoot mr olympia a little here i'm here for, supplement company or that supplement company or guest thing here. And still in training do, I don't know, 600 for reps squatting. And you're just looking at him going, you know, his whole thing is being a natural bodybuilder his whole life. And he's, but it's, I wouldn't, you couldn't, there's nothing you could say that could ever diminish what he's done because there's nobody else out there. I don't care what you shoved in him or what you didn't shove in him. You can't be that guy. He's just that sick, strong, and he still looks like he's like 30.

So you're just like, you won the genetic lottery. Unless you have some sort of crazy, radical genetic engineering down the pipe, which probably is going to happen within a lifetime, maybe. But, yeah. There's some dudes, no matter how much steroids they take, you're never going to compete with some ridiculous freak athlete. No, Mike is one of the most genetically gifted, and hardworking, of course, too, people I have ever seen.

He also has a world record for running through plate glass windows i know that sounds like yeah no shit he does right how many people were competing in that race but uh no you win football gear and a helmet and they line up these plate glass windows and this huge long uh line this light like a two-line or three-line deal. Like dominoes? No, no, no. Each one is individually set up, and he smashes through the first, the second, and he keeps going. And sometimes you run into him, it bounces you back, and you just gotta keep driving.

He's also got a black belt in judo. Jesus Christ. He was on the American Gladiators. He was on Battle Dome. Battle Dome. Battle Dome. Battle Dome. I kind of remember that. Yeah. What was Battle Dome again?

I think lower rent American Gladiators. It was meaner and people got hurt more. Oh, that's right. Everybody had a very obnoxious or ostentatious, very gregarious character, very over the top. And so he was Mike O'Dell, like the perfect Greek god. Although O'D odell come on that's not very greek yeah but uh but then uh you know who else was on there was uh god i can't remember his name he played in the nfl he's incredibly funny uh terry cruz terry

cruz is on battle dome was he really yeah he was i don't remember and then there was another guy you know eric paulson used to train them and eric even did the psycho guy gimmick the hannibal lecter deal and they had an event on there where you'd have to get a guy off this platform over the lines and eric used to just murder everybody in that event and then one of our guys who fights who is uh one of our csw dudes he actually went on to battle dome at one point uh jay martinez way back in the day and he wrecked all the dudes that he saw on who got he got onto the platform to get the push out one he just fucked them all up and they were so they hated him so bad because there was like another event where it was football-esque you know terry cruz

and mike would just practically take people's heads completely off their body it was it was really bad i'm surprised when they redid that they redid uh not this one but the other one gladiators why didn't that take off it seems like that would take off they had hulk hogan leila ali gina carano was one of the uh kickers. What channel was that, though? It was NBC, I think it was. It was during the writer's strike. Was it during the writer's strike? That's right.

Writer's strike. Yeah, but it's still a reality show. That seems like it would be an easy one to do. That Wipeout is kind of similar, but no one kicks your ass. Right. People love that kind of shit. American Ninja Warrior. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's another one. I don't know why it didn't actually continue as well i figured well you know it has a little bit of distance in it and two seasons and that shit was done yeah well whenever you have like people that you have hired like you hire a josh barnett and you you have to smash some dude who's competing it gets kind of weird it's like it's not. It's like you're not competing against another person. You're competing against a hired guy. So if the guy gets hurt, if someone gets hurt, and, like, you hurt him, like, it could be pretty easy to sue the company that makes that show.

Like, you're an employee. If, you know, some dude makes a run at you, and you fucking clothesline him, and he's paralyzed, but waivers man they fight those things and when you fight them if a lawsuit is strong enough it's got enough power behind it enough legal power behind it I wonder if that was it or if it's probably not

it's probably just ratings I think it was just ratings yeah I think it was just ratings it's interesting when you think about what guys are capable of like physically with maximizing your genetic potential It's interesting when you think about what guys are capable of like physically With the maximizing your genetic potential like there's certain there's a certain level that you can't get past it's one of the reasons like when everyone talks about like steroids and Performance enhancing drugs and what's what's fair and what's not fair the hundred one thing that's 100% not fair is nature

and what's not fair. The one thing that's 100% not fair is nature. That's true. It's not fair at all. Nature's a bitch. Nature will murder you, will drown you, will set you on fire, and will also just let you show up, you know, the proverbial gene pool that's been pissed in, you know, get born with stubby fingers or half a leg or, like, Down syndrome.

Like, well, good luck. See how that works. Yeah, and if you're an athlete, no matter what you do, there's certain guys, the Herschel Walkers, there's certain types of dudes that just are always going to have that giant advantage no matter what you do. Herschel was a really well-versed, he had a good career in the NFL, but he never was the guy more than anyone else.

I mean, he had some years where he was, and you always knew he was solid, but he never was the top dude. Really? I didn't know that. No, he was never the number one guy. And often towards later on in his career, he was usually the backup guy or the dude who got brought in

for all the all-purpose yardage or, well, because Herschel could run and catch and possibly, I bet if you threw the ball to him, Later on in his career, he was usually the backup guy or the dude who got brought in for all the all-purpose yardage. Or, well, because Herschel could run and catch. And possibly, I bet if you threw the ball to him, he could, you know, he could throw a pass downfield. He could probably play defensive end. It's just, right. And then they would do those NFL off-season competition things, right? Where they take all these different players on NBC or something. And they would all compete

against each other in little events. Throwing the football through hoops and through tires and sumo and the beach sand. All this different stuff, right? Battle of the Network Stars, right? Something basic. It was like that kind of thing, but just for NFL players. The NFL would

do it. And Herschel Walker won every single one of them. Really? Every time. But he was not the best running back in the NFL during his entire career. He was not the best fullback. But he could play fullback, running back, quarterback. He didn't get fucked up either.

It's like Bo Jackson's out there crushing everybody just just eating yards up boom his hip goes out right or uh Steve Itman taking uh interceptions and running him back 90 some yards as a defensive tackler the end and boom his knee gets blown out you know stuff like that not Herschel Walker he doesn't get hurt yeah's weird, right? Yeah, he's a specimen. But he never was, like I said, he was never the number one guy. Right. Did you see that thing recently about Jeremy Horn? Jeremy Horn.

He said zero injuries over 117 fights or something. That's insane. I have no idea. He must be made out of fucking flubber or rubber maiden or whatever. You know, he just bounces back out. Yeah, they call him Gumby. That's always been his nickname. Right.

He just says he focuses only on technique, and he's never a strong guy. He's got a point, and it's something that I've stressed a lot when we talk about fighting, and that is so many guys have learned how to be stronger and faster with or without drugs and learned how to be stronger and faster with or without drugs, and learned how to defend certain positions and hit hard, but they don't have a full well-rounded skill set. They've all got these plan A's and their plan B sucks. And their plan C isn't even a thing. And then when they slow down a step, they lose a little bit,

they come up across a guy who's either stronger and faster or just a little better striker or too good at something that will derail their plan A, they start losing. When they start losing, they just nosedive. They lose four fights, five fights. These guys that would go out there and mop these dudes up, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, turns the corner. They can't sustain a career because they have no technique they do not have the finesse the uh the touch the feel they don't own it they never developed it they just became really strong really fast hit hard overwhelm out athlete their opponent would you call a front runner uh yes for the most part and watch you know you you watch these fights and how oh man

this fight's gonna to be so good. And then it's whoever gets out first, oh, that guy wins. Whoever's game, whoever's plan A starts first wins the fight. It's interesting. When you look at MMA, too, it's so few guys are what you would call durable. You know, it's very difficult to, like, you see, like,io chick versus uh junior dos santos sure one of those crazy fucking five round wars there's so few guys that can engage

in those kind of wars and and and and make it out of there okay yeah that's true and honestly especially as a heavyweight uh with all that power and strength, you go through that. What's your next fight going to be like? And your next one and your next one. How many of those do you really want to get involved in? Yeah, when you see a guy like Junior and you see those wars that he had with Kane, and you knowing you've had a long career, man, you knowing the toll that a fight like that takes on your body,

do you see him diminished at all? Do you see him slowed down? Yes, he's a step slower. Junior is a step slower. He's not quite as durable. He doesn't react the same way to getting hit as he used to. You know, no. And here's the thing.

Someone might get on Twitter after this and go, oh, Josh Barnett says that you're not as good as you used to be, Junior. No, that's not an insult. What it's saying is that what do you have been through, what you have done through to yourself in training, and what your body is and isn't willing to accept or isn't willing to or is able to do just by the natural string of how things went in terms of your career to this point, this is what it is. Take what you have now and adapt it.

In the end, it's really only, it's up to you to decide whether or not what you're going to do is going to be successful. If you're so set in your mind that it can only be done one way, then when that way is no longer what is best for you to do as an athlete, prepare to have the shit kicked out of you. Now, if you're willing to adapt, reapply the things that you've already done well, add some new things in, just do them a little differently, make small changes, well, then now you can go ahead and you can have 19 years of career instead of seven, six, whatever. You know what I mean? That doesn't make that doesn't, if you could run out there and double leg everybody in

the beginning, but now you can't do that anymore. But instead you were able to set your double leg up, just makes people react, hit them on the way up or hit them and then get a body lock and finish that way. How is that any fucking worse than what you were doing before? Just because you didn't do it how you used to, but you're still getting to where you want to be, to me, that's still success. It's an interesting situation where you see

there's some guys that still have like a single-minded pursuit. They have a single-minded skill set. Like they just want to wrestle and box. That's it. They never throw leg kicks. They never... And those guys are going to get

their fucking shit pushed in once they come over that imaginary line. You don't know when that's going to be, those guys are going to get their fucking shit pushed in once they come over that imaginary line. You don't know when that's going to be, but it's going to happen. And then they're going to fucking nosedive. They're going to be washed up has-beens. So it seems like in this day and age especially, you kind of like... Okay,

like it's certain divisions. Like there's certain divisions. Like say if you want to fight flyweight, you better be able to do everything. You know, Mighty Mouse is just so goddamn good. You want to fight that guy, you better be able to do everything. You know, Mighty Mouse is just so goddamn good. You're going to fight that guy, you better be able to do everything. And he's a rarity. Most guys are not going to be him. Right.

And I've known DJ since he was just this kid up at the gym who was too small to really get any fights in a weight class that he really belongs in. And he trained diligently over, even when he knew he wasn't going to get fights. He was in the gym day after day, training and training and training, training hard, training, easy training, fast training, slow training, and doing what Matt had told him that he needed to do. And that's why he is the way he is now. When I trained under Matt, I did the same thing.

I trained constantly. I trained when Matt wasn't around. When it was my own free time, I spent that going over what was working, what wasn't working. Why was this working? Why wasn't this working? How can I make these better? Shadowboxing, figuring things out, altering, and the things that Matt would say, well, I need you to do this. I don't really understand why or what. Can you explain it to me? Well, because I need you to do this so that you can do this. Create, elicit this reaction, whatever.

I still don't get it, but I know what you want, where this is supposed to lead to. I'll figure it out. I will play with it and play with it and play with it and play with it. Not talking about my cock. But in addition to that, I will keep playing with it until it makes sense to me. And then I can come back and now I can ask a question that has purpose to it. Instead of just, I don't get it. Of course you don't get it. You're not going to get it. Lots of things you're just not going to get the first time until you live in it, until you wrap it around you like a skin and understand it. And then you might even make a decision to go, what you want me to accomplish with this, it isn't that effective for me to do it this way. But if I just make a little change to it

because of the way I'm built, because of my own natural tendencies, what have you, I can get that. I can get what you want and do what you want until the weekend end of that end point. We can get there. But you can't understand that until you've taken the time to make that thing yours, to fully understand it. And there's some things, there's some techniques of Matt that he's shown me over the years that I can teach others, I can't pull off worth a shit. It's just not my move.

I'm not really built for it. He was built for it and he made it work better. And the same was with Paulson, you know, just sitting there and taking all this information in and understanding. And Paulson's background is even more varied than Matt's. So he'll come at me and go, okay, hey, do this. I'm like, that's really from left field.

Okay. But there's a reason. I'll figure it out. I'll figure that out. Is that one of the more frustrating things about being an MMA fighter, when you try to talk to people that don't know fighting, is there's so much complexity and so much technique involved. And the person on the outside, it seems to be like a brute sport involving strength and weight and it does

involve those things uh but it's what's that aliens but it's not take oh sure we've had alarm issues in this fucking building i heard i saw them all trying to get in. I had to fight my way through the front door. Glad you made it through, dude. But a lot of people don't understand how many different techniques are involved and how many variables are involved in training. I can't be too angry at the ignorance of the casual fan. It's not their job to be that first.

The fan that does go that extra mile and learn about the history, learn about why this technique would work and who these people are and where they come from and what this is and what that is, that's awesome and amazing. And I really appreciate that. I don't begrudge the person that doesn't. I don't like it when they say really ignorant, mean-spirited stuff. You know what I mean? But that's a different thing altogether. That's somebody trying to be a dick on purpose to try and cut somebody else down. That's a whole different animal.

But just not understanding, it's okay. Personally, when I get into something, I do want to fully understand it. But that's just the kind of person that I am. I don't even mean people that are into it. I mean the casual person that is not aware of MMA. It's a fascinating thing that so many people. Yeah. That person is, you know what? It could be anything.

And fighting is while it is something that is available and exists within every human being, the ability to fight. Everybody has the ability to fight. You've never seen Brian fight, obviously. I didn't say fight well. He doesn't even have the ability. He just starts falling down.

I'll just try to kiss you or something. Just make it really awkward. Make it awkward so you just want to leave. Open his mouth so you don't want to punch his tongue. Just hold on to your belt loops and just Offer his shoes up to you you would look really good in these what's been the biggest change over your career? I mean cuz you you've been around for you know, I think the first time I saw you fight was 96 or 97

Something something along those lines what what year was Super Brawl when you were fighting in Super Brawl? 99. 99. That's when it was? Yeah, 99 was the tournament. 2000 was Dan Severin. And then 2001 was my first UFC fight. So what was your first MMA fight?

Your first ever MMA fight? My first ever MMA fight was probably, it was 1997 of January. I was on winter vacation from the University of Montana. And I got a call from an old wrestling coach. If I, because he knew I was training, he knew I was into it. And at the time, he was actually doing Matt Hume's website. And so he goes, hey, would you be interested in fighting? Sure. All right. Chris Charnos. he goes hey would you be interested in fighting uh sure all right who uh chris charnos oh that

guy's fought in super brawl right like yeah okay uh when it was like in 11 days okay what do i need where do i when do i need to be there and i just i trained with an old training partner of mine this guy edwinwin Romarosa. We used to do Kali and some Thai boxing and self-defense stuff, knife fighting, all kinds of shit, right? But we're all neophytes at the time. But we did the best we could. I would run up the hill from Ballard to Finney Ridge. I would meet him.

We would either go to the park and he would have me do stuff like throw on the bag, the big army duffel full of gear that we had. I'd throw that on and I'd hit tie pads on an incline because it was fucking hard as shit, right? So I had to kick up and I had to crawl, walk up this hill and kick these pads. And then he would have me do stuff like we didn't have mats

and things like that so I would just be on the carpet. I'd just sit there and take a position. He'd blindfold me and just fucking jump on me for many times he would just jump on me and i'd have to figure my way out of whatever was going on i had to feel it i couldn't i couldn't tab a slot b i had to figure out what was going on and get to where i needed to be and then finish it's like some pink panther type shit. Kind of. Dude, Kendo would just jump out at him. Yeah, just come out of the closet with a fucking Kendo stick and take me out.

I mean, it wasn't far from it. But in the end, it was about sharpening the mental aspect of it and just being like, all right, you're going to go out there and you're going to destroy this guy no matter what. And I choked him unconscious in two minutes. Well, it was about sort of like making up the training as you go along, trying to figure it out. We didn't even have real MMA gloves. We had to make them out of Harbinger bag gloves. We had to cut the bar out of the palm and cut something else off.

And there you go. There's an MMA glove. And then we didn't have real trunks. We didn't have anything. I mean, there was no MMA glove. And then we didn't have real trunks. We didn't have anything. I mean, there was no MMA gear that you could just. I went to a sporting goods store to get some of my other equipment. And they're like, what do you need this for? Like, fighting.

Huh? What are you talking about? And even most of the time. So my first fight was 97. Then I would fight guys whenever I could on mats here, there, whatever. It wasn't like I was dojo storming. Back in college, I would just, hey, I see you're doing martial arts. That's pretty cool.

You trained a while. Yeah. What do you, oh, I did American Kenpo. Oh, that's great. What do you think of the UFC? Ever watch that? Oh, it's fucking badass, man. I love it.

It's cool. Awesome. Want to fight? What? Yeah. We'll just, we'll negotiate the rules and uh we'll just let's fight right here uh okay and it's just back off and you know no gloves no nothing like let's go boom i remember picking up this dude from the East Coast and shooting in on a double, picking him up, skying him, boom, slamming the shit out of him. And we had this big cargo net hung down because there was all these full courts.

There was like three or four full court basketball courts that went perpendicular to this whole thing. So you're running up and down on the other side. Cargo nets to keep balls from flying over into this other and onto the matted area. And also there was a rock climbing wall and some other little stuff. So to keep the basketball stuff in the basketball area. And then there was like a little room that they had built for a women's workout room. So there was little cardio machines with little windows that they could look out across the mats and onto the basketball courts. across the mats, and onto the basketball courts.

People would stop playing basketball and hang on the cargo net thing and just cheer and talk shit and whatever. That's Mad Max shit. That's Beyond Thunderdome. Two men enter, one man leave. It wasn't a lot of people, but I remember I skied this big old dude, slammed him, wham, and he turns over, and I throw my hooks in, I splat him face first on the mat and i'm just 12 to 6 elbowing him in the back until he quits you know just stuff like that and you know the best

was always you'd see a guy talking to his buddies about how tough he is hitting the heavy bag downstairs and that would be the dude i'd always like oh hey man i see you got some experience you ever fought before and like oh yeah sure what i want to fight uh okay palau just started so that's how you got your training in yeah because i had that first fight and matt goes that was really cool we want you to come back and fight again in the summer and at this point i was just the dipshit who had showed up was like who the fuck is this guy and how old were you back then? 19. 19. In fact, this dude in line is talking to me, just making conversation because I'm this new face around. And Chardo's trained at AMC, and he's already a pro, and he'd been known.

So I'm just this kid from Montana in their highs, even though I'm from Ballard. And he's just asking me, oh, where do you train? I go, well, I used to train church basement And he's just asking me, oh, where do you train? I go, well, you know, I used to train, you know, church basement with this other dude and whatever. And I train at Jim Harrison's Bushido Conquerada in Missoula. And they're just like, oh, okay. Well, cool. Because everybody thinks I'm going to get murdered.

Fucking trains in church basements? What fucking idiot is this guy? Where'd they find this moron? He's going to get murdered. Like, I can't believe, even the guy sitting next to my mom filming it is cheering for Chris. Kick his ass back to Montana. My mom's like, oh, come on. It's my son right now.

He's like, oh, I know. I'm just, you know, I'm just playing around. You know, Chris won't hurt him. What was your motivation back then? Did you think that this was going to be a career, or were you just enjoying yourself? No, I intended fully to. This was a point. I told the people that I trained with back at Jim Harrison's place, which is, by the way, that is a put up or shut up. No bullshit. If you come

in trying to be a big shot, you will get your fucking teeth knocked out. And you don't that's not the place to try and be a tough guy. And Jim Harrison is about as tough and as mean as they come. He's he's a was a big help towards me developing who i am as a fighter he was the first u.s light heavyweight kickboxing champion he was a judo champion he fought the bare knuckle karate back in the day like with chuck norris and all of them he was uh superfoot wallace's trainer this dude is legit and uh so we'd get guys that come in the gym and they'd start doing all this stuff and acting pretty cocky and we just take just take turns like, hey, who's going to kick the shit out of this guy tonight? So I'm out there training, and I said to the junior instructor there, I said, well, hey, my goal is by the time I'm 24, I want to be in the UFC.

And the dude just kind of chuckled, and he goes, by the time you're 24, you're going to win the UFC. There you go. Fuck, yeah. You were correct. So you thought there was a career in this from the very beginning? Yeah, I watched the tapes in Japan, I saw the UFC. I just thought with this, I don't know what kind of a living one would make.

I imagine you could probably sustain yourself. But I knew that I would get a chance to see the world and beat up its people. So that was your actual approach. From the very beginning, beating up these guys in a basketball court, you were thinking, well, this is just training towards my ultimate goal. I need to fight. All these guys are showing up with 250 and 0 records and all this crazy shit, and I'm i don't have 250 i better get to i'm way behind i better start fighting people you know what am i gonna do when i fight the guy that's got at least you know 95 fights you should really write a book about all

this shit because you you were one of the i mean if you really think about it you were one of the real pioneers that there was you were around just a few years after the beginning of the ufc and you know you won the ufc title what was that like five years after you first started fighting uh from 97 at 04 was it 04 that you won yeah hmm wow why did i think it was oh no sorry 2002 yeah 2002 because five years because I wasn't working for the UFC when you won. Five or six years of training with three years of wrestling, two years of judo. That's pretty crazy, man. I mean, if you really stop and think about it, that is a really crazy path. You really should write a book, man, because to go through that and to be around today.

I'd like to, but I worry about all the people that would get thrown under the bus. Not on purpose just Man, I've seen some shit. I've heard some shit. I've been around some shit. I prefer to keep that Yeah on the deal well that brings us to one of the things we were supposed to talk about on this show that we need to talk about John Wayne Parr was on the show and John Wayne Parr who is a great guy. I love him to death I really enjoyed talking to him, but he had one particular story that pissed you off.

And it was a story about training with you. It was before you fought Minotauro in the New Year show. Yeah. And, well, let's just play it and we'll get you a reaction to it

because I know you really want to talk about this. He's got a little bit of catch wrestling. As a few hours drive. Do you want to hear a funny story? Sure. Should I tell this one?

I was going to say. So I meet Cub Swanson. And Cub Swanson's a cool dude. And we're hanging out. And then my first day at Eric Paulson's gym, it's Muay Thai day. And I'm the new guy. I know nothing. No one knows who I am.

And then Eric Paulson's like, OK, Muay Thai guys, put your gear on, guys. Okay, so Josh Barnett, you spar this way. He points to me. So we start, and I'm moving around. It's like kick, jab, and then Josh throws something. I'm like out, and then I'm in, boom, boom, boom, and I'm gone again. He throws a kick, ooh, air. And then he's a big dude. He's a kick air and then he's a big dude

he's a big dude he's quite a big dude I'm in and out fearing for my life just tapping away and then we do two rounds after two rounds

he takes his glove off and he throws it across the room he takes his shin pad off throws it across the room he packs his bag he storms out and then

they go on to tokyo the next day to fight on the new year's eve um pride tournament i don't forget who it was against um and then about a week passes um josh loses his fight i get a phone call from eric paulson about three or four days later once once i get back and I said, oh, hey, this is Eric. How you going? I just want to let you know that we blame you on Josh's loss because he was fine right up until he spied you, and then some kid that he'd never seen before owned him in the sparring and took away all his confidence. So when he got to Japan, he was a mess.

No way. This is a true story. I kid you not. Well, first of all, how ridiculous are they to take a guy like you where they don't you know. I was just that new guy in the gym. It's like, oh, yeah, you spot him. You can cut it off there. So

the fight that you fought in Japan for the New Year show was the Minotauro Noguera fight, right? Yeah. That was a fight where you, it was a very close fight and you actually had a leg lock locked down. No was the the second time i fought him that year and uh i had a nasty front choke on him then he managed to just barely escape i picked him up and slammed him on his head i i whacked on him a bit uh up top and down below but uh he pretty much stalled me out

he tried to hold me down most of the fight and in the end they gave him the decision. In my opinion, what they wanted was a trilogy. So I think it was a bullshit decision but if I don't finish a guy and the judges make a shitty call, oh well, that's my fault still, not the judges. But that's neither here nor there. Right.

This story really pissed you off so express yourself. Well, first of all, you could say, oh oh if this guy came in and and and i even made sure to go back through my mental rolodex about this because i'll be honest i had a pretty vivid memory about training with john wayne parr because i knew absolutely who he was when he showed up i know he was not unknown to all these people at the gym. And not to mention, Eric Paulson will make sure to introduce,

if somebody of notoriety came in, if you showed up right now, Joe, if people had been living in a cave, he would talk, he would say, this is Joe Rogan, he did taekwondo, he did this, and now you may know him. He always makes sure that everybody who shows up gets their due respect and is introduced properly to everybody. make sure that everybody who shows up gets their due respect and is introduced properly to everybody uh john wayne parr i watched him fight at the sands before he came and trained with us i watched him fight muay thai i'd seen him fight muay thai before i knew who his wife was uh angie rivera i'd seen her fight before i i knew all about john wayne parr before he'd ever gotten to our gym

and he shows up and i'm going oh fuck that's so fucking cool and i made a point to come up to john and tell him i watched you fight at the at the sands i was there i've seen you fight i know all about you and i deliberately spent time training with With John as much as I could. As much as I could. So here's the thing. John had a MMA fight coming up against Tony Bonello. So he's at our gym to try and figure out this whole MMA game. And I even put extra time into John trying to help him out, trying to teach him about defending the takedown and try to be more defensive as a grappler. And, you know, we all, everybody there was really kind and helpful to him, especially myself. And I tried to spar with

him as many times as possible while I was at the gym because he is such a good fighter, but at the same time, he's a lot smaller than me. So I'm not trying to win. I'm just trying to learn. I'm not trying to take 250 pounds and kick him and hurt him and bust him up and make this a competition about who's better. If anything, I would just play, play, play, play, play. You know, his striking is so unorthodox versus a boxing rhythm and even what you might consider sometimes a standard Thai boxing rhythm. He punches on weird timing

and weird timing signatures and weird rhythms and his elbows are super high, which normally people would be like, that's shitty, but he makes it all work and he's got a great kick and good reactions

and good footwork. So we played a lot, but there was never any ass kicking on my part. There was, I never chucked my gloves across the room cause this new guy just showed up and beat me up. It's like, that's all fucking bullshit.

Why do you think he would say that? Uh, maybe he's been punched in the head too many times. Maybe he sees that as his opportunity to get some sort of fame. I guess he's got a documentary out, which, you know, I don't know what he's lying about in that. But clearly this guy is delusional. And even still, there's like that unwritten rule about training, right? You don't talk about it.

And, you know, that being said, when we did spar, there was at least there was one time where i put him on the floor by accident just timed a right middle kick against his right hand and it just clunked him right and right in the right spot down to the floor he goes and we laughed because we thought huh i go i didn't throw that hard he goes man that was just that was just a hellacious that was really well placed and we just what did we do we figured out how to repeat it because we thought huh if if one could land that kick just right be a great kick it'd be great thing to have in one's arsenal especially if you're not even trying to hurt someone they get hurt so bad they drop well and you know i got a big big heavy leg you know so i i don't fault him for that it's no it's not like we're trying to win how many times do you think you sparred him

fuck uh six seven eight eight times whatever i mean he was there for a good bit and then he For that. It's not like we're trying to win. How many times do you think you sparred him? Fuck. Six, seven, eight times, whatever. I mean, he was there for a good bit, and then he disappeared, which I guess he took off to Thomas Denny's. I don't know why, but, you know, it's not like he was having to pay to be at CSW at the time. But, you know, when it came to MMA, he got murdered. On the feet and on the ground.

And not because he's a bad striker. It's because he didn't have the rhythm yet. The rhythm of stopping takedowns. Being able to pay attention of the takedown distance, the clinch distance, which doesn't end. All kinds of little things that change the way you pattern your shots, the way you would angle, the way you would footwork. So just in a straight Thai boxing scenario, of course he's very relaxed, but with MMA, with everything that comes with it, he's not so relaxed, which is no fault of his.

Yeah, he talked about not pursuing MMA because he was such an expert in Muay Thai and he didn't like the fact that like when he would do Jiu-jitsu or wrestling or anything. He just was so out of his element. He didn't didn't like being a beginner. What is that? What is that? Well, you know, but that's That's quitting. That's what that is He wasn't fucking good at Muay Thai to begin with either I promise you right but he was by the time he, and that's hard for people to start over. It's like taking a guy who's...

Here's the thing. By the time he started MMA, he was already good at one thing. He got so used to being good at one thing, he couldn't stand to be a white belt again? Mm-hmm. Well, then it definitely wasn't for you. Right.

And I guess you don't like potentially learning new languages or reading new books, learning... That's fine. You could stay in your little hole. And clearly MMA wasn't for him. Some people, though, they get a little bit of success. I mean, not a little bit.

Obviously, he got a large amount of success. How much money do you think he made Thai boxing? I mean, really? Very little. Exactly. So he probably thought MMA was going to be a way to get more notoriety, more money, more whatever. And then when he realized it wasn't going to happen the way he thought it was, he quit. Well, you see guys that have really decorated Muay Thai careers and they struggle to make it in MMA.

Sure. Cyril Diabate is a good example. He's a guy who's pretty successful in MMA, too. He was pretty successful. But really good at Muay Thai. Yes. I mean, a world champion at Muay Thai. And that transition is, it ain't easy.

If it was easy, everybody would do it, right? That's true. But as far as kicking my ass, that man has never kicked my ass in his entire life. That's weird. And you know what's even so weird is I was a John Wayne Parr fan. You know, I meet the guy at my gym and make a point to not only help him, but to train with him, to learn from him, to have that experience, to be there. You're like, oh, when am I going to get a chance to train with John Wayne Parr again?

I want to have the both of you on a podcast next. It's going to be so fucking weird. All that could happen is he's going to go well no it happened this way and i'm just like shut the fuck up all right you know what i mean knock me out right now then if that's what you want to go on with but it's just dumb and uh and then recently someone dug up the whole hector lombard stuff again i'm like oh why and i thought that was done because we have a mutual friend through the gym and he says oh you know hectorector, he's sorry. He apologized for all the crap before. And I'm like, that's cool.

You know, we never had a problem with Hector at CSW, really. And even the night that Hector called me out at Bellator, the day before weigh-ins, I'm, Hector, how you doing, man? I think you're going to do really great, you know, blah, blah. Still backing him up. And then only to have him say, oh, I want to fight this guy. Like, what the fuck, man? He said that at the weigh-in?

When did he say that? After he won his fight at Bellator. And this is when he was the middleweight champion at Bellator? Yeah. Who do you want to fight next? He's like, I want to fight Josh Barnett. I'm like, what? What do you want to fight me for?

What the fuck, dude? Josh, are you ruffling people the wrong way? You ruffling feathers? What are you doing, man? You know what? Maybe. Maybe. I will accept that I ruffle feathers. I rub people the other day. Josh, are you ruffling people the wrong way? You ruffling feathers? What are you doing, man? You know what? Maybe. Maybe. I will accept that I ruffle feathers.

I rub people the wrong way. You're a feather ruffling motherfucker from way back. I will ruffle feathers, especially in the case that I will call things like I see it. I don't let bullshit slide. And I have absolutely no, I do not suffer fools. So if you come at me with a bunch of just ignorant, stupid, whatever, if you've built your whole life, this whole construct around who you are and what you do based on a lie, based on something false, something bullshit, I'm not going to accept that and I'm not going to respect you. If you don't have to be the best, you could be the worst.

But if you're an honest person, you're a real person, then I don't give a shit. That's not I'm not really impressed by people that can try to portray being something that they aren't or make themselves into something that they aren't. I'm more interested in the people who are exactly who they are. And that's fine. And understanding that they have weaknesses and strengths and being able to grow and and be a person of integrity and being a person that is true to who they are and true to me. person of integrity and being a person that is true to who they are and true to me so that will cause a lot of issues with folks especially the fact that is ideal in entertainment you know whether it be fighting or the acting or anything that i do there's a lot of false bravado a lot of made up uh you know machismo but yeah posturing right so hector the first time so he says the reason that we had beef was because he broke my nose the first day of sparring and i hated him ever i wanted i hated him ever since then and that's not fucking true either the first day he ever showed up at csw he had come up

from team quest he wasn't going to train there anymore and uh i think he still hates dan henderson uh why does he hate dan henderson i don't know that some whatever i don't i never asked i just oh he he sucks man he's a jerky whatever you know i didn't get into it but the first day he came and sparred was actually one of the best days we ever had with sparring because he got in the ring he wasn't trying to murder everybody and uh you know i fucking fucking hit Victor rolls on him and took his knee and he's just like, holy shit, that's crazy. How did you do? We're all having a good time, but I'm tapping them out and taking them down, whatever. But there's no animosity where everybody's training and training and training and he's always amping it up now. And then at some point I show up at

practice late and everyone's on the floor. Hector doesn't have a partner. So I just threw my shit on real quick. No hand wraps, no nothing. No one's going hard i'm like i'm just gonna jump in and start warming up all right touch touch tap tap boom he throws the biggest fucking punch he's got and tries to knock me out starts my nose bleeding i'm just going what the fuck so then it's on for like 20 minutes and i put a giant egg on the side of his head and shit and paulson you basically had a fight we just brawled it out and uh with you know boxing kickboxing and paul's finally called called an end to it that's fine and then later on at some point he's sparring mighty mo and mighty mo drops him boink and paul's like all right all right so you know

uh lighten it up lighten it up fuck man are't scared of him i ain't scared and mighty mo's like man fuck you what i i don't need this i'm here to help you out i already got x amount of cars two houses whatever you know what i don't need this shit i've already made money you're the one who's down here trying to crawl up the ranks you know why are you what are you going to get out of this and so then things started getting a little worse. He started beating up on civilians, which is what I call, like, people that are not pros. And we would still spar and things like that here and there. But I always knew that with Hector, he was always going to go hard. He never had a light.

Not because he couldn't, but he wouldn't. And you guys, after you'd gone hard for 20 minutes, you basically fought it out for 20 minutes. I was done with it. I wasn't mad at him. So you were perfectly fine with sparring him after that. He made it clear who he was going to be in the gym. Oh, that's fine. I mean, one time we had a grappling tournament.

I drove him out with me so we could all hang out, everyone could be together. He came out to this fight out in Palm Desert where we had some guys fighting. And, I mean, he was a part of everything, part of the team. But we knew that he was unstable. But we knew what to expect. So, and Babalu beat up on him one time in the gym. He didn't like him at all because he would beat up on, because Hector would take liberties with people, right? That Babalu felt like, well, you shouldn't do that.

And, but then the last time we sparred, I get on top of him, and I'm working him over pretty good, but I'm not trying to kill the guy. And he freaks out, and he's like, I'm good, I'm good. You know, I'm tired, man. Why? He's like, what do you mean you're tired? Every day you

go hard and try to kill people, and the one day. You don't want to go hard. You don't say anything, but everybody just expects us what's going to be. Right. And so he says, Oh, and this one day I got on top of him, beat him near within an inch of his life. And I'm like, I didn't do that. I know I didn't do that. Yeah, I did. I pinned him and you know, I was, I was leathering him, but not hurting the guy, you know, and, uh, you know, he thought he was going him but not hurting the guy you know and uh you know he thought he was gonna die or something like i'm not gonna i'm not gonna do that to you it's just it's just training and uh now it's like this thing again it's like you know you didn't beat my ass in the gym you're an incredible fighter in fact you're a better fighter than you even understand

hector lombard if his head was right, would be untouchable. He is one of the most gifted, strong, fast, throw aside the fact that he just got popped for steroids. Even with it, you could find his

fucking peers and give them all the same shit or different shit. It doesn't matter. They're not going to move, have the strength and the speed like Hector is. Hector's unreal. Hector should be undefeated, but Hector's a head case. And that's why, you know, he'll never fully ascend to the top of the throne or really keep it if he can get there because he doesn't understand what it is that he has and how to use it best but he is amazing don't get me wrong that dude gnarly yeah he's a super athlete there's no doubt about that i've never seen anybody ragdoll jake shields like that he could do that he could do

that to anybody in his weight division he could he could he now could somebody have a counter for some something yeah i'm not saying he's he invincible, but I'm saying that what he possesses in athleticism and skill sets, he's actually a good leg locker, too. You won't see him necessarily go for it, but he is a good leg locker. Yeah, there's a video of him in a grappling tournament. Oh, he breaks that guy's leg, yeah. It's loud, too. Carrot. He's got even more skills than he displays.

But, again, you know, you've got to be able to put it together. But isn't that part of the beauty of MMA is that it is this weird thing that you can't just be a super athlete because there's other super athletes, too. You can't just be a technical guy because there's other guys that are technical, too. There's so many variables. That's true. And you could the the best athlete out there i know i fought people that were bigger and stronger than me and faster and i've beaten them before and it wasn't because i went and i fought their their speed with my speed or or use my strength against their strength it was i found

a way to bypass those things or to put them in such a way that they wouldn't even apply strength or speed where they should. They don't even understand that it's still available to them. It's just that they don't understand the position. They don't understand what's going on. They don't even realize what opportunities are there for them. Well, isn't it almost impossible, unless you spend decades in martial arts, it's almost impossible to have all the skills and all the knowledge at your disposal. Of course. It's such a deep pool of information to draw from. It is. But, you know, if you want to

have the biggest toolbox out there, then you have to spend the time to do it. When the coaches are done coaching you and you've left practice, how do you spend your time? Are you watching video, not just on your opponent, but just watching video on things for fun or to take a look at something and break it down and make it yours in a very highly technical aspect? Or are you shadowboxing to make sure that work on keeping that jab inside are you thinking about the things that you've been working on are you thinking about if you

mentally drilling like gable says are you sitting there going through shot after shot after shot setup after setup after setup in your head are you having a garbage truck come through in the signal right now is that what that is that was that was through in the signal right now. Do they have Wi-Fi in garbage trucks right now? Is that what's popping in the hood? Most people can't even hear that. They're up there like, I got a fucking hot spot, motherfucker. Bring me your trash and your recyclables and check your email.

If you were going to start someone. That's where spam goes. I know you train with a bunch of young fighters now. You train a bunch of young fighters right now. Jessamyn Duke, Marina Shafir, Victor Henry, Shohei Yamamoto, Colleen Schneider, Shayna.

And if you wanted to start, say if you were going to start from scratch, if you were going to develop a program and take athletes that had never fought before, never had any martial arts experience whatsoever, and turn them into professional mixed martial arts fighters, if you had a curriculum, as it were. How would you start that off?

First things first, what do you possess up top? Your brain. Exactly. If you don't have the type of mind that can be that dedicated, that obsessive, that can be easygoing when you need to be easygoing and be completely unmovable when you need to be. Yeah, that unshaking and unfettered confidence. And how would you develop that in a person? Is that something you either have or you don't have, or is this something that you could develop? You can develop it, but I truly believe that for the most part, it's something you are born with, the ability to do. You give them adversity right off the bat.

You give them struggles. You give them things that will confuse them on purpose. And you see how do they deal with that. Do they quit? Do they fold it in? Do they throw a fit about it? Do they throw a temper tantrum? Because what you have to do to get to the end

goal is really irrelevant getting to the end goal is what's important so if you had to fucking do coffee runs for two weeks in a row if that was all i mean come on what is that in the length of what your career would be a length of what your training would be, in the length of what your training would be? Coffee runs, what do you mean? Like someone said, hey, Josh wants you to go get him coffee. Yes. How the fuck is that going to help anybody? I just made it up because I've been drinking coffee.

I understand. But if that was it, just to see them, you're like, well, I want to go train. I want to see what they do. Well, don't you think, though, in that case, you're dealing with people like, okay, some people will come to the table with a certain amount of mental toughness a certain amount of discipline a certain amount of The ability to overcome adversity and some people won't And you're only gonna take the ones that will is it is it possible to take someone who's almost essentially a blank slate athletically and

Turn them into someone who could understand what's going on in their mind like do you believe in like mental training yes it is possible but again they would have to exhibit those characteristics not through an athletic window per se but just through a determination standpoint uh just through you know it's like the reason why pro wrestling gyms back in the day, or even currently in Japan especially, and the Lions then, and they had tryouts. I had to go through a tryout. I beat two pro fighters, my first two fights. And I still had to go through a tryout. I still had sparring.

I still had to have a meeting with the coaches before I could join AMC's fight team. Because just winning, just even being a good fighter wasn't enough. They needed to see what is this guy made of? Is he coachable? Is he have the mental capacity to be in this environment and excel can he can he be one of those people that what we instill in him will stick well that was what i was kind of getting to is there a way you could develop a mental curriculum because it seems like that is one of the biggest parts of of competing one of the biggest parts of succeeding and i'm not tripping

over your own dick, which a lot of people do in all sorts of things in life. You see it with stand-up comedians. You see it with musicians. You see it with authors. There's people that just don't fucking do the work, or they fuck up, or they don't follow through, or they take too much time off.

The mental aspect of success, the idea of finding a goal, figuring out how to get to that goal, and then avoiding anything that trips you up along the way. Yeah. I don't know about building a curriculum that's one size fits all because everybody's a little different. But of the difficulties that you named, failing or not doing the work. Distraction. Some of these. Pussy. Yeah.

Pussy. Pussy. Pussy. Pussy. That's a big one. But sometimes it is. Sometimes it's very tight and small. Sometimes you just never know what you're getting.

That's not what I meant. I meant like what Mickey said in Rocky. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Some of those things are okay. Failing's okay. Failing is okay. As long as you learn from it.

It's one of the best motivators ever. What's not okay is distractions, not doing the work. There's a difference between not being successful because it just isn't learned yet, you haven't developed the capability yet, maybe you're just not quite strong enough, quite fat, things like that. Things that in time can be learned and understood and grown from. And then there's shitting the bed by not putting the work in,

by having the wrong attitude, by showing up trying to win all the time, letting your ego get in the way, things like that. And that's what you want as a coach. Okay, not even just as a coach. Let's take the coaching aspect out of it because this applies to life. As someone that's going to have somebody else apprentice under them, as somebody that has the ability to instill knowledge and understanding towards something that somebody else wants to work

towards. That person who needs to learn this stuff has to have the right head. My old coach, Billy Robinson said, you need to learn how to learn. And that's a fucking fact. And so the coat, one of the mentors jobs is to try and help guide this person to teach them how to learn. Because once they learn, it's the stupid old analogy of give a man a fish, he'll eat today. Teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime. It is fucking that simple when broken down to its smallest pieces. You have to learn how to fish. And you learn how to fish, it doesn't matter if I tell you, okay, well, I want you to use your jab to score on this guy's chin. You will figure out the way that you need to use your jab to score on that

guy's chin. You will make the jab that you possessed the most effective jab you have ever known because you understand, you know how to fish. You're not sitting there getting pissed off because you don't like the fact that you didn't hit him every time. Or you're focusing on the wrong thing. You're too busy trying to win instead of trying to learn. Once you learn, you'll win. If you try to win all the time, you're going to fail eventually. That's a big problem in jiu-jitsu.

Marcelo Garcia talks about that a lot. He says that you have to open yourself up in training, and you can't worry about being tapped. Nope. Being tapped is a part of the game. Get tapped and just move on. Don't worry about it. That's right. What's most important is you open up your game, and then instead of being super defensive and never taking any chances.

Always trying to win. You don't learn, because you don't get tapped, but you don't learn jack shit. And there's always those guys. Every gym has that guy that's almost impossible to tap but doesn't fucking tap anybody. Right. That's true. And that's another thing that as a mentor, as a coach, or whatever you want to call it, that you have to look for is not the person. There's always the person that's just fresh off the boat.

You know, they just fell off the turnip truck, whatever. Just getting into it. Turnip trucks. Turn turnip trucks that's that old one that's old schoolie well no i mean there's turnip trucks that go through los filas all the time really oh they're all about how many people are buying turnip trucks and beat trucks and is there one turnip truck for the whole entire state of california well it's organic it is organic probably two turnips it's gluten-free gluten-. Probably two turnip trucks. It's gluten-free. Gluten-free turnips? Yeah. I'm not worried about gluten anymore. No? Me neither.

Sugar. Sugar's worse than gluten. But that's what the gluten issue is. It's not a... The real issue, I believe, with gluten is that gluten is all sugar. Not gluten, but gluten-containing products. If you have a lot of bread, if you have a lot of pasta,

the real issue is sugar. High glycemic carbs. That's the real issue. It seems to be, and I've talked to Nutritious about it, and they're like, well, some people are more sensitive and some people aren't. The people that are most sensitive, it's usually because their patchouli is interacting with their karma.

It's a, you know, crystals and gluten have they are the ones where the intolerance is within that combination, not the person themselves. I get it. Yeah, the body is okay with gluten, but if you have crystals on at the same time, depending on what harmonies they're vibrating at, that gluten could be an issue. Harmonies. Very important. I knew a girl named Harmony. Was she annoying?

Oh, my goodness. What color was her aura? It was kind of a purplish. But that whole thing, that gluten thing, there's something to it. You're not really supposed to be eating bread all the time. You're not really supposed to be eating pasta all the time. And your body, obviously some people have a harder time processing all kinds of different foods. Everybody's diet is going to be different to a person.

But the one thing that will help everybody, everybody listening to this, if you hear all this gluten frad, cut the fucking sugar out. Just cut it way back. Eat fruit. If you want some sugar, have a peach. Have a pear. It'll make a giant difference. We're totally getting off topic.

We're digressing. But we're not because we talk about learning. Right. Learning. True. And one of the things even about the whole concept of this gluten stuff, right? And bread and pasta. How refined is the shit you're eating too?

Like if you had bread that was almost as least refined as possible. I mean, it's going to be refined to some degree because you made it into fucking bread. But the least refined as possible. Like sprouted grains. It's way different from cheese ball, white bread. Wonder bread type shit. It's all sugar. Yeah. I'm cheese ball white bread. Wonder bread type shit. It's all sugar. Yeah.

I'm cheese ball, white bread, and I've been known to be unhealthy to people. You're a little cheesy, but it's amusing. Yeah. But I love sprouted bread. I like like Ezekiel bread and stuff like that. My body doesn't seem to react to that bad at all. Well, it does tend to burn a little bit on initial touch for me, but that's because i'm just so unholy and satanic that's the problem oh the ezekiel yeah no it's just like it starts glowing hot i didn't

know you were unholy and satanic yeah all the above wow how long have you been unholy uh i think since the day i was born i think when i stabbed the doctor or something are you i've been down since i began to crawl on the night i was born i heard the moon turn a fire red but uh so you get these these new guys with their sprout of grain bread their beats and you you get them to a certain point right and then here's the real trouble they experience some success they get to some point of understanding and of they feel like they know what their game is and they know where they can win. Getting that motherfucker out of that hole, out of that shell, that's hard. And that's unfortunately where a lot of times you just got to turn to a guy and be like, all right, I'm done with you. That's it.

You have set your own limitation at this point. You have created your own roadblocks and you don't even understand it. Sort of like what you were talking about with John Wayne Parr. Like John Wayne Parr not wanting to learn how to grapple because he was so good at Muay Thai. He'd already crossed the gulf and become an expert and didn't want to become a beginner again. Exactly.

John Wayne Parr decided he was going to be a failure in terms of grappling in MMA. He decided that. It wasn't a matter of whether he could be successful or he could be mildly successful, greatly successful. Who knows? But he decided that he was going to not be good. I had this conversation with a guy once about this guy who was an MMA fighter. I don't know what to name his name, but he's a really good kickboxer who got into MMA and kept getting

tapped out. And this guy said, well, he just doesn't have any talent for jiu-jitsu. And I said, that's crazy. I go, it's not that he doesn't have any talent for jiu-jitsu. I go, I'll tell you exactly what happens because I know those guys. They are so good at kickboxing, they don't want to do jiu-jitsu because if they do jiu-jitsu or submission wrestling or whatever the fuck it is, they're going to get tapped out, and they don't like getting tapped out. So they spend as little time doing that as possible

and as much time hitting the pads, hitting the bag, working on their strengths, not working on their weaknesses. No one likes to feel like they're failing. You know, it's a hard thing for people to do, to go back to sucking again in some way. And I just started training Kyokushin karate in L.A. One of my students, Shohei Yamamoto, is a junior world champion. He's a junior world champion in Kyokushin. He's taken third and fourth in the weight category world championships. He is also the youngest guy to ever compete in the world open weight.

He was like 185 pounds or so at the time, 19 years old or so so and he made it to top 32 whatever he fought like glaube or someone in law something like that wow fucking kid i know karate has a lot to offer i know all martial arts have something to offer and i've always thought that kyokushin was a was a badass art and would be fun to do and so what i I do, I show up, guess what? I got to wear a white belt. I had to go buy a karate gi. I have to sit there and sit in the back of the line with everybody else and be nobody. And that's okay. Because people go, I don't understand.

How come you're here with a white belt, training karate, doing forms? And because I like being a white belt. I like learning. And in a way, it's kind of like my yoga because i can throw a sidekick but if you make me do sidekick from that with the heels to it's just it's a different way of doing it i don't know these forms i don't know some of these positions to do these sort of things so it makes my body stretch and adapt and all i'm doing is getting better learning more it doesn't mean that i have to go out there and sanshin with my knees in and whatever and give somebody a karate chop to the neck.

But so what? You're just learning new movements. Yes. It's always good to learn new movements. You were here once and you were saying that after you left here, you were going to go train savat. Yep. Yeah, I've trained savat for about a couple of years too. Well, I've never done any savat training.

You would love it. Would I love it? Okay, here's the simplest way i can i can describe savant uh think of savant as like the western boxing equivalent of kickboxing you're more floyd mayweather than you are you know mike zambidis hitting and getting hit the idea of savant is to touch and not get touched. Lots of footwork, using your lead leg, lead hand, tons of footwork. So just not a lot of emphasis on power? No, I mean, you develop power and you have your kill shot opportunities, but really it's about being scoring, off-balancing, angling.

There's a great fight, Raymond Deckers versus Pinocchio, this Italian savate guy. It's a good fight? Yeah, a fight with lowchio, this Italian Savat guy. That's a good fight? Yeah, we fight with low kicks. Pull that shit up, Jamie. Jesus Christ. Pinocchio beats Deckers. What are we waiting for? Get the fuck out of here.

You're watching it. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. This dude beat Ramon Deckers? A Savat guy beat Ramon Deckers? Yep. Over five rounds. Was Deckers like five? No, he was...

A little kid? No, he was at least seven and a half. I think John Wayne Parr had just beat him up really bad in practice, and his confidence was shot. So Pinocchio beats Deckers, but how he does it is by scoring more, by being elusive, and you watch the two fighters, and you can see an absolute difference. Wow, Pinocchio's a real boy.

It's Pinocchio, bro. It's not Pinocchio is a real boy. It's Pinocchio, bro. It's not Pinocchio. You don't even know. You watch Deckers, and Deckers is full of power. Tons of power. And when he kicks, you can see this just bone-shattering type stuff. What year was this? Early 90s or late 80s.

So this is why Ramon was still in the prime. Oh, yeah. Ramon was still knocking out Thais over in Thailand. But the thing is, Pinocchio is almost never there to get hit. The other thing is, when he's taking these shots, he slides and moves with them. He always takes the power out of it. And there's quite a few times he kicks Decker's legs out from underneath him while he's trying to wind up on him. Really?

And tags him with a lot of shots up top with the hands. This is very interesting. And it's not that deckers is a worse fighter than panacchio don't turn it into that kind of thing you know listeners it's about style right here this is what it came down to it was a guy using a different tactic against uh you know he's not going to match power with this dude who could raymond deckers was just a destroyer too much power. Kicked in the dick right there.

Now, they're wearing those shoes. Why are they wearing the kickboxing shoes? Some sort of fucking whatever European League's thing about. You know what I mean? This is back in the day when kickboxing was different everywhere you went. And this is kickboxing. There's no clinch. There's no elbows. No clinch, no elbows, no knees.

What do you think about that? Like the glory rules as opposed to full Muay Thai? Muay Thai has a tendency to get boring as shit when they get in the clinch. And they're just throwing side knee after side knee and no one's really landing anything. And they're hanging on each other. And I understand why they want people to be at that mid-range or long-range just tagging each other because it looks more exciting to the casual fans. I kind of get it from that perspective, but I don't like it as far as a –

well, he just axe kicked him in the face. Yeah, lead leg hook kick and then evaded his return low kick at the same time. It was barely a – it was more like an axe kick. It looked like a slap a foot slap Inside low high again. He's just moving a lot constantly and look spinning off of his kick and sliding away as he's kicking Yeah, Pinocchio also beat or Yohan Voss fought in some matches too and lost

Wow, so I mean it's just lost wow so i mean it's just apply so i love hook kick to the face i love the the distancing the speed you know one of the things i like to to use if at all possible and teach the people is that you know what how much do you think your leg weighs oh like 30 40 pounds if you just got it up there as fast and as quick and as and as to the point as possible if you score as clean as possible and as quick i don't need to throw hard i mean force is is uh mass times velocity squared so let's work on the velocity squared and not trying to generate more more uh strength into that movement but just speed right so more kyokushin style than Muay Thai style. Well, Kyokushin has a tendency to

try to really kick the baseball bats apart too at times. But with Savat, I mean, if you can even watch some of the old American kickboxing stuff back in the day, and those guys were so adept at going from foot to hand to hand to foot and foot to hand. Obviously, it was tailored to the game, but if you thought

just watch Guy Mesger Ar what's his, Arona. They're out there and there's, bip, just a nice little kick, lead leg, high kick, and this whack, and all of a sudden Arona's on roller skates. And it didn't even look like much. Yeah, you're seeing that sometimes today. You're seeing more of a karate style, like Machida is a perfect example. Sure. There's no windup. There's no wind-up.

There's no step before he throws the background kick. He just throws it right from there. Pettis does that as well. Yeah. You're seeing a lot of guys that are doing that. Front kicks taking people out as if that was never a legit technique. You know what I mean? And there's a bazillion ways to throw front kicks.

You can throw a Thai-style push kick. You can throw the Taekwondo one where you, like Victor Webster has one of the nastiest push kicks ever. And he'll fucking, he's out here and he steps in he rides into it and then he hits you right in the hip and makes you sit on the floor it's like fuck dude that sucks he just stomps right through your hip and then you've got karate style we pick it up and fold it and then punt as jim harrison would say with the ball of the foot and you get them right in the the chin the solar plexus diaphragm area you could turn it over like savat likes to do and or even kyokushin has it too that's uh uh kikuno's kick the mikazuki gary and punt it right into the liver and it's you know ball the foot how much surface area is that

it's just uh the end of the hammer the head of the hammer hitting right into the point. Yeah, there's a lot of old school Taekwondo guys that would throw round kicks, but they would throw it and land the ball of the foot like a front kick. Sure. That was a big thing they used to do back in the day. I kicked it. Eric Paulson always holds this camp every year. It's a big full-on.

There will be multiple instructors teaching all this stuff. And all these people come from all over his affiliate gyms. And they pile into our gym during our training time. So he just integrates everyone together. And I always just tell Paul, I go, don't stick the newbie fucking goofballs in there with me. If I've got a fight coming up and these dudes are in here, they're going to get wrecked. Like, this is not my job to help this dude have a good time at camp. I'm getting ready.

Please just don't do it. Right. No, no, you can just take it easy. I'm i'm like no they're not going to go easy on me for one because i'm me and they want to either they're excited scared or want to prove something so i don't want it i don't even want to deal with it but if i have to i'm burying them so that's just the way it is so anyways we're in there we're kickboxing with this kid and fucking he turns it up my god damn it so what do i do i're in there, we're kickboxing with this kid, and fuck, he turns it up. I'm like, god damn it. So, what do I do? I step up, throw

a left high kick off the lead leg, but I turn it over and I hit with the ball of the foot. I just stabbed him right in the jaw with it. He stuns, puts his hand up, quits for the whole day. He's done. He says, I'm done. Forget it. That's probably a good idea, isn't it?

Probably was a good idea. Probably got a concussion. For all I know. Whenever you're That's probably a good idea, isn't it? Probably was a good idea. Probably got a concussion. For all I know. Whenever you're stunned, whenever you're like... That's my problem with tournaments. Especially those kickboxing tournaments they're doing. A lot of these guys, they're getting essentially knocked out in their first fight. They recover.

They get dropped or stunned or fucked up. And then they have 20, 30 minutes for everything to cool down and really hurt, and then they get back in there and do it again. Yeah, I hear you. And I was just having this conversation with somebody the other day about, I was with a referee, actually, and I go, you know, we need tournaments back in MMA. Do you think so? And they go, well, you know, we can run tournaments. I go, no.

I know the fucking stupid ruling where they say, oh, as long as you don't exceed a five, five minute round in a night. And I go, that doesn't, if I'm fighting pro boxing, I'm out there for 36 minutes. You're telling me that an MMA fighter can't go 36 minutes. If it was,

if you gave me 36 minutes, then you could go two fives and three fives in a final. And he's like, well, there's guys that can barely get through one five. Now I go, well, fuck good. Hopefully they get through one five now i go fuck good hopefully they get the shit kicked out of them they fucking figure out either a how to be able

to go past the five or b this ain't the sport for you i mean we're not supposed to make it so when you're a professional everybody doesn't need to be able to compete when you're an amateur i have some understanding everyone should be able to get in the ring with a modest amount of training uh to go out there and do it but not pros why do you think that they should bring back tournaments some understanding everyone should be able to get in the ring with a modest amount of training uh to go out there and do it but not pros why do you think that they should bring back tournaments every combat sport in the world has tournaments everything and we love it we love the out of tournaments japan loves everything fighting and going to tournaments so much they make they'll have a tv show and it's battle and there's a piece of celery versus a yam like which is I don't even know how you compare those two or why how you make them fight then

even give them little knives or anything before a shield and a trident a lot of fighters don't want to do tournaments because they feel like like say if you there's a four-man tournament you have have a fight in the first round, and you win in 10 seconds by a knockout. And then they go two rounds, and there's a draw, so they go to a third round. It's brutal. They're all banged the fuck up, and then they have to fight you in the finals. And you went through 10 seconds of fighting, and they got the fuck beat out of them, and they're all banged up. It's not fair.

They should have been a better fighter, I guess. Is that really what it is? What if the draw is? What if you got Fedor, and your opponent got Willy the Wimp? Willy the Wimp and his Cadillac coffin, and Willy the Wimp got KO'd in the first round, and then you went three hard rounds. Or what if he had no gear on, and then the other guy gets Vanderlei, and he's Crow Cop? Yeah, well, you did do that.

So what? Fuck it. You know what I did? I laid in the back. I had IVs. I had ice on me. And honestly, the biggest problem wasn't even the fighting. It was getting heat exhaustion before I even showed up for the tournament because dead summer of Orange County, and we had no air conditioning whatsoever, no breezeways in that old gym.

And I started off doing 10 minute rounds just going through name pro fighters owning them and then all of a sudden eight minutes then six minutes then four then i can barely get a two minute round off without falling apart and i'm just going what the fuck is wrong with me and then people start packing me with ice bags in between rounds and in between sessions and all of a sudden my energy would start to come back some i just go oh, this is fucked. But oh well, let's get over there and do it. So you were training, and as you were training,

you had no air conditioning in the gym, and you were getting heat exhaustion. Yeah, it was fucking 100 degrees outside of time. And that's fucked with your conditioning when you actually went to fight because you never were able to push. By the time, well, I could push, but there were things like when Noguera mounted me, right? I gave him

my arm on purpose because I couldn't get him off a mount because I couldn't expend that kind of energy. Just wasn't there. So if he, I know if he goes to try and arm bar me, that shit ain't going to happen. So this is just because of all the time that you spent in the gym under heat exhaustion. Yes. So you knew you were never able to do those 10 minute rounds, those long rounds in the gym because just, no because it just got too hot. Why didn't you guys put fucking air conditioning in your gym? Not my gym. Not my decision.

God damn it, Eric Paulson. Is it his gym? Yeah, it's his gym. Cheap fuck. I struggled to get back until it took me about until next year before I really finally fucking felt better again. When I fought Nastyla, I was still just struggling. My CNS was shot. Central nervous system.

Really? All just from the heat exhaustion? Oh, dude, it was so bad. Wow. What about Cronk Gym in fucking Detroit? They would crank up the heat and everybody would box. I hate that shit. 120 degrees.

And everybody is, I'm more susceptible to it, I think, than others because I'm so white and Viking-like. Right. That if, you know, a little bit of cold would probably would have done me some good. Right. If you had some African dude in there sparring with you, he'd have an advantage. I don't know. But some people don't take the heat as well as others.

And some people do. You know, it's just a matter of fact. And here's the thing. I got over there. I fought my ass off i was exhausted i could have been bowed out and be like oh no crow cop is just gonna he's gonna walk over into the finals and everybody was gonna be like oh he had a really tough fight with no gear that's acceptable we'll give him a pass on that but i wouldn't give me a pass fuck that so what did i do they put ice bags on anything. It was banged up. Doctors came back, gave me an IV and some vitamins and hung it off of the locker door. And I just laid on the ground.

And I had Megumi Fuji with me and my ex-girlfriend at the time and Eric and Hiroyuki Abe, my friends with me. And I just was there with them. And the officials come back and go so are you gonna fight the last fight like yes i am damn right i am because that's what a man does and uh i fought that's what a man does is in a tournament that's what a man does is in a tournament let's get the fuck out of here but uh you know i didn't show up to to take second place right i showed showed up to take first or die trying. And fuck it, you know? But why do you think that that's better to have a tournament?

Like, what is it about it? Just because the public anticipates having those fights, watching how it plays out. It's so interesting to see. I mean, come on, look at March Madness. It's one of the biggest things ever. And if it wasn't a tournament, people would not be as excited. Right, but that's a tournament over a long period of time. They're not playing a bunch of games in a night. That's actually a perfect example why it wasn't a tournament people would not be as excited right but that's a tournament over a long period of time they're not playing a bunch of games in a night that's actually a perfect example why it doesn't apply but it just i just mean the concept of tournaments and even

doing tournaments over over time is still great too but the one night tournament is let's see who comes out on top plus it's a great way to try and read establish uh orders so you if let's say you have a whole bunch a pool you got a handful of all these guys and you don't know who really fits where boom they go through this one night tournament ah there's a winner someone was able to gut it out and come out on top and come over come out with all that dealing with all that adversity and then you look down the line like who did what and then even the guy who did the worst in the tournament let's say all of a sudden non-tournament style they start racking up the wins and it's like oh wow you know look at that story that person's coming back from what we would consider to be

uh disaster and now they're phoenix rising from the ashes you know it gives such an opportunity to uh to exempt to show human spirit to to show overcoming adversity, and it's an instant trade-off. I think it's a great idea for grappling. Eddie Bravo had the Eddie Bravo Invitational, the EBI, last week, and it was a tournament, and it was really exciting to watch. Watch guys make it to the finals and watch guys, you know, you see the brackets play out.

I think it's great for grappling. What I worry about it is with head injuries. I worry about guys fighting the first round, getting their bell rang, having some internal bleeding perhaps, and then fighting in the finals. I don't think that the medical observations should be

overlooked. I think that's important. But I really think tournaments would help bring some excitement back to MMA. But then here's the other thing. I think five-minute rounds are not long enough. I agree with you. I think we need ten-minute rounds at the very least. Brian, you agree?

Yes, I do. See, nodding your head over there. Guys, let's not even talk about how the ten-point must system doesn't belong in MMA at all. Sucks. Terrible. But, and I understood why they use a ten-point, because it's to try and keep people honest. Oh, you can see that they scored the round. No one's sitting, that hasn't been explained to me. Well, they just borrowed it from boxing.

It doesn't need it. I liked it in Japan where they just look, okay. In Pancras, it used to be two judges on the outside and the ref. Their judgments at the end. If they decide, all three of them convene, he won. See, I disagree with that, using the ref, because I think a referee should – I think that's a very singular job, and I think the referee's job should be making sure – I can see the argument there.

I'm just saying how it used to be. But even still, no matter what the idea was, and back in Pride, you had your criteria. Matt would sit ringside with a piece of paper, one name and then another name, and a line down the middle for each side. He would sit there, and he would put hash marks in each box. And those hash marks meant something along those criteria that were important, that he could look back and it would help him remember how this fight went. Well, Matt's an excellent referee. Oh, well, yeah. Well, and this is just him as a judge, too.

But so I agree with, I'm more towards that side. But even still, now you see guys just gaming a five-minute round, stifling, doing this, doing that, and then petering off to the fucking stool, coming back out and just trying to run the same thing or win two out of three and then they walk out look at me it's like well you didn't even really try to kick that guy's ass well i won have fun with that what do you think about stand-ups do you do you think that stand-ups should be a part of mma yes you do but that has to be with and the

other thing with mma is it needs to be more attention to stalling. If you're not trying to finish your opponent and damage them, take them out, you're stalling. What do you think about if they do have rounds? Like say if you go a 10-minute round. At the end of 10 minutes, you're on top of the guy mounting him. Start right back with the mount on the second round. That's an interesting concept but uh i like standing him back up on the feet again but why that gives the striker a big advantage

you need to be a well-rounded fighter right but if you work so hard to get a guy to the ground he didn't earn getting back up to his feet why should he be able to get back up to his feet well that's the whole concept of rounds is the restart of the contest right restart of you getting a chance to get back up that's true too yeah so if he can survive the round what does that mean if it is that dire to you that you cannot afford to have that guy ever get back to his feet either by the round ending or by him escaping or the referee standing up for inactivity well one you're fucked as a fighter anyways you're you have a huge deficit number two you better finish him right you better finish him.

Right. You better finish him. That also goes to say, hey, if you're the greatest grappler submission guy in the world and you have no takedowns, enjoy getting your ass kicked. Well, there's a few fighters that are really good at holding guys down. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that because I think it's important to know that a guy can hold you down. Like Ben Askren is my perfect example. Ben Askren is such a good fucking wrestler that he gets a hold of guys and he puts them on their back

and they can't get back up. And if that's the case, like, standing a guy, giving a guy a free shot to stand back up because Ben Askren may or may not be as active as you would like, but still, the guy who's on the bottom wants to get up, but he can't. Right. But, you know, you got ten minutes

to work, I see. And I think, honestly, with 10 minutes, I don't think Askren would have as many decisions as he does because, while Askren has kept a lot of people on their back, I've seen him work a lot, too. Looking for submissions, punching. He's not a power puncher. He's a pillow puncher.

But one FC allows him to do knees to the head on the ground. That's another thing I would change. I think knees to the head soccer kick stomps you know i'm all for all that but at the very least knees to the head change things and uh a lot especially even for the grappler uh but with 10 minutes you want to call ben askren boring i think in 10 minutes he's got finishes yeah i think that uh a lot of guys would have finishes but the other thing that changes that is when a ref is standing over the top going action yeah action action okay get up you're stalling you're cool you know when a guy is stalling you know when a guy is not yeah but i

think a guy who's stalling if you can't get that guy off you fuck you well that's a different fight then that's is it though because the guy you, you're on the bottom. You're still fighting. Right. No, no. I hear you that way, but we're talking about prize fighting, entertainment. Okay. If it's the fight that you're talking about, that's not for entertainment. No one wants to pay to see that.

You know what that is? That's catch wrestling in the 1800s. That's pro wrestling in the 1900s where three hours plus of guys trying to get an advantage and can't Because they're so well versed of each other. They're so tough. They're so skilled one guy getting stuck on the bottom He can't get up. There's no restarts. There's no nothing. There's no there goes Let's see when that first fall comes but that died out It didn't work if you look at like say like what they were doing with elite XC That's like the worst case example of trying to make it entertaining.

I'm not suggesting that you just shit on them. They used to stand people up for 15 seconds. 15 seconds on the ground, they'd stand you back up. They stood up big country. He was on top of Orlovsky, inside control, working a Kimura, or what you would call a double wrist lock.

A double wrist lock, yes. I don't know if he was ever going to get it, but he was in an advantageous position. He was working for a finish. He should not have been stood up. Yeah, and he's an expert in that particular style of fighting. He's a submission expert. He's a ground guy, and he wasn't just laying on him. He was trying to submit Arlovsky.

And, of course, with anything, even as the sport sits now, we need better referees and we need better judges. Yeah. That stoppage last week. Oh, that was awful. They reversed that. Oh, did they? They reversed it.

Yeah, it's a no contest now. Or, you know, even when Faber is down there getting walloped on his shoulder and it's like, show me something. Yeah. One, you couldn't see his thumbs up. I got it. But on the second hand, you can tell he's not getting his ass kicked right now. Right.

Let it go. Yeah. Let it fucking go. When a guy's turtling and the guy's just hitting your gloves and arms and then the fight gets stopped, that is very frustrating. It is. I have a problem with that. I watched all these fights back in the day. I've seen dudes getting shell- shell shocked on top just just artillery

dropped on them and surviving it then reversing the fight dudes all totally totally petered out brock lesnar shane carwin and just kicking the shit out of them yeah it happens and brock lesnar and carwin that's a good example too but no one wants to let that happen anymore oh that's too brutal well we're not we're fighting we're not doing patty cake. Well, there's always that thing about trying to make it more appealing to the mainstream. It'll be better for everybody. And yet it's not better for the people that are actually doing it. No, it's definitely not better for someone who gets stuck in a position and they intelligently defend yourself. Well, guess what? There's some positions where when a guy's wailing on you, it's intelligent to just cover up. Sure. Remember Tank

and Severn? Severn kept palm striking him and just throwing all these shots and Severn wasn't palm striking him because he didn't know how to punch. It's because he didn't want to break his hand. Right. No gloves, no wraps. So he's smacking Tank, but Tank, he tries to get up, but he can't. Now,

one of these modern refs would probably stop that fight. Oh, you're not intelligently defending yourself. He's not going to go out. He's not getting his bell rung. He's not getting the shit kicked out of him. He just can't get up right now. You hear what Frank talked about, or when Tank talked about it? Uh-uh.

He said I had a nightmare. I was getting molested by Freddie Mercury. By Freddie Mercury, yeah. And if Tank tried to get up, he was just getting controlled. He couldn't get up, but Severin didn't have the ability to really finish him either.

Right. So. It is what it is. That's what it is, you know? The fight needed to keep going. But I don't think that should be stood up. What about, no, not in that case, because Severin was incredibly active.

Right. He was trying, he just didn't really have the skill the skill yeah yeah and and here's another one ruan potts getting punched in the ribs and then stopping it because he's just he's stuck there hamilton yeah do you see him tapping no do you see him saying i want out no yeah i don't care how much he's getting punched in the fucking ribs let him get punched in the ribs they stopped that fight just to rescue everybody from how boring it was because he he was just on top of them, punching them in the same spot. And everybody's like, we've seen enough.

Ooh, look at that bruise. So what? It is bruised. This is a bruise. It is a very bad bruise. He's going to be so sore tomorrow. He's going to have a black and blue spot. Yes.

A real black and blue spot. Oh, my God. It might even turn yellow and purple at some point. It could very well turn like an orangey-greeny kind of a thing. Oh, God. We can't allow that. That's what I'm saying. What if... Stand them up. Yeah. Yeah. Or stop the fight altogether. That's not intelligent

defense. You're not an intelligent ref. There's certain guys that fight in the UFC where you gotta go, man, who the fuck let you fight in the UFC? Well, they need a lot of fighters. They have so many events. So, so, so many events. They gotta fill them up. Do you think there's too many? Do you think there's too many? Yes. There are. So, so, so many events. They've got to fill them up. Do you think there's too many?

Yes. There are. But they have a plan for what they're trying to accomplish, and this is what they see is the path to doing so. You know what I think there should be? I think there should be an A-League and a B-League. I agree. I think there should be a UFC and a Strikeforce. I agree.

If Tuesday night fights should have one headliner type dude or one main card type guy and the rest are just up-and-comers. Yeah, why not? And then those guys will graduate to become, you know. Right. Well, can you imagine if it used, even this, what if they kept Strikeforce and UFC and let's say

Strikeforce went Pride style and UFC was UFC and then they had a Super Bowl match every year and each year it would switch. This year it's Pride rules. This year it's UFC rules. Oh God! I can hear it now! Oh, but the difference

in that, if you can't fight in one or the other, if it is that dire to you as an athlete that you can only be successful in one arena, you as an athlete that you can only be successful in one arena, you're just not that good. Well, you're not that well-rounded. Well, for sure, but I mean, anything you can do

in one, you can do in the other, really. We did see big differences between guys fighting in the cage and guys fighting in the ring. That had nothing to do with it, no. You don't think Krokop was talking about how big of a difference it was? Elbows on the ground was a big difference as well? That definitely changes some things, but no, I don't think that was it. So you think it's just a lack of preparation, proper preparation?

I personally don't have a perfect answer for that, but I don't believe that it was that. Well, obviously he did much better after that. Yes, he did. He got better at figuring out the cage and the elbows on the ground and the defense. Yes. So it's probably just a lack of the proper preparation. Maybe.

There's only a few places. If you really looked at young athletes today, and the defense. Yes. So it's probably just a lack of the proper preparation. Maybe. There's only a few places. Like if you really looked at young athletes today, they want to compete in MMA, is there a dozen places in this country that you could go and get a proper education as far as like being a real professional MMA fighter? Is there even a dozen? You know, well, I can't say I've done all the research

to say conclusively one way or the other. I know that AMC, CSW. One of the best. AMC is, I mean, Matt Hume is about as knowledgeable as anybody who's ever lived. Well, and look, Matt Hume and Eric Paulson are kind of cut from the same cloth in that their lineage comes down from Carl Gotch. From the shoot from Sayama and Funaki and, you know, well-rounded, full-meal-deal dudes. They could do everything. And, you know, so there's that.

But, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I imagine Greg Jackson's could probably make you a— For us, a hobby. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I've never trained under these people. I knew that I was very, when I moved from Matt's gym to go train somewhere else, it was really hard for me to find. There wasn't very many people back then that I felt like I could go there and learn. Where I wouldn't be the one dictating all the training all the time. I would be somewhere where I could learn and be trained.

What made you decide to go from Seattle and then live in Southern California? How come you don't stay up there and train with Matt? At the time, it just wasn't really feasible. I didn't have the sparring partners and Matt wasn't really around that much. So I was ending up having to do a lot of my own training because he was going to pride to judge he had a lot of stuff he was on his plate and uh and and especially like i said i had no sparring partners i had nothing uh i was reese andy was my main dude and we would do a lot of training together uh every night somewhat jeff munson but a lot of time i'd end up teaching Jeff and even teaching Reese. And

they were great guys. And I learned a lot from, they were very, very, very helpful, but I didn't have sparring partners. And then I just thought, well, this isn't the place to be. Seattle is my bar none favorite place in the U S and one of my favorite places in the whole world. I think it's an amazing city. Do you like clouds? I like clouds. I like flannel. I'm into depression and heroin all together. Coffee. Yep. Stinky pussy.

Hey. Hey. Where'd you come up with that? Yeah, what the hell? Why do you have some Seattle stinky pussy stories or what? Yeah, what are you talking about? They just never clean it. They're just all in bed sleeping, crying and shit.

That's not true at all. No way. First of all, you're not really supposed to clean your pussy. it's just the thing about pussies and the self-cleaning organ they have a lot of uh probiotic stuff up there like yogurts and uh kimchi that they made from the farmer's market they're they're good it's actually important for women to not do that like douching and stuff that's like super bad for you yeah isn't that amazing these to promote that all the time girls thought they had to do it. My mom did it all the time.

How do you know this? Because when I was a kid, when I was a kid, I used one of these. What's that vacuum noise? Who opened up the Hoover Dam? The gates of hell. When I was a kid, I saw one of those empty bottles in the trash can, and I used it to drink Kool-Aid out of, because I thought it was a cool bottle, because it had that cool straw thing. I believe every minute of this. And my mom caught can, and I used it to drink Kool-Aid out of because I thought it was a cool bottle because it had that cool straw thing. I believe every minute of this.

And my mom caught me, and she never told me what it was until years later. And then when he found out, he thought it was even cooler. Yeah, you were walking around the house sucking on your mom's douche bag. I swear to God. And she was like, go ahead, Brian, play outside. See those power lines? Go climb them. Here, have this lead paint sandwich right now.

It's a true story. Yeah, you know, all that douching. And now all that douching has now reversed. It's come full frontal where people wear it now with, like, all the dragons and fucking fleur-de-lis and velour on their shirts. How's that douching? Oh, they're outside douching. I get it. Anyways. External douche. I get it. Anyways.

External douche. External douche. But I wanted to go somewhere where, one, I knew there would be no issues in trying to find people to work out with. And SoCal is still, in my opinion, the mecca of MMA. And jiu-jitsu. You need big guys, right right for a guy like you It's important to have guys to train with heavy guys quality guys. You need a whole lot of

Different kinds of guys. Yeah, you need guys to shave guys that don't share. Oh, sure Why not? But for for you It's really is important to have heavy good guys right like for a guy like you like say if you're working out with a bunch Like really good middleweights sound good enough, right? For a guy like you, say if you were working out with a bunch of really good middleweights, it's not good enough, right? Depends on what I'm trying to work on. If I'm just going against a guy, just working on passing

somebody's guard or something like that, sure, fine. Or just catching a leg, fine. But if I need to have someone to push me, I need someone to be able to match me with strength and weight, all that kind of stuff. And then Eric was down here. Also, everything else that you could jump off from fighting as an entertainment commodity

into anything else, acting. That's why you keep bringing that up. Is that what you're trying to do now? You're a smart dude. You think about your athletic career. You know you can't do this forever. Everybody's athletic window is a very small portion of their life. It's important, but you need to not just be the best athlete.

You need to grow as a person, and you need to be able to. It's not about setting up plan B. It's about evolving as a person. It's about opening new doors and doing new things and growing and having new opportunities. And so I've been acting, uh, I've done commentary. I'm doing commentary on new Japan pro wrestling on access right now. And that's not new to me. I've done, I've never done pro wrestling commentary, but I've done tons of fight commentary. I did commentary for pride. I did commentary for, uh, some other events, uh, from pancreas pancreas and uh it was like cool i can do this and that's no problem even though and people keep hitting me up why don't you do ufc events

why don't you do this why do you like well no one they're not hiring me so that's why i'm not doing commentary there and then i got the steven seagal movie coming out absolution it should be out relatively soon do you have to spar with steven seagal i did you have to spar with Steven Seagal in this movie? I did not have to spar with Steven Seagal. My balls are perfectly intact. I didn't have any fight scenes with him. Did you have scenes with him, acting scenes? Not really. He was in a scene where I'm in the background. I just end up getting into a fight with his sidekick guy anyways.

So I give that dude his hero moment. Byron Mann, who did a great job. And I've got another movie that should be coming out sometime this year called chuck hank and the san diego twins it's an indie film it's fucking completely insane so how do you balance that between training or are you like leaning more towards that area now you haven't fought since the travis brown fight right yeah how long ago was that that was last year year? Last year, 2014, December. Do you have anything on your plate right now? I'm hoping at some point to get a word on whether or not I'm fighting Roy Nelson.

Because someone brought up the idea of Roy and me doing Metamorris. Yeah, that's what I had in mind, too. And I was just like, oh, okay, really? And then Roy said, nah, that sounds cool, but we fight first. Pays better. And I went, well, if you're willing, I'm willing. And he said, good, that sounds cool, but we fight first. It pays better. And I went, well, if you're willing, I'm willing. And he said, good, let's make it happen. I said, well, I guess that's that.

If we say we're willing to fight and we're ready to step up and go, then you know it's legit. And have there been any conversations with Joe Silva or the UFC? I imagine my manager's dealing with all of that. Oh, so you haven't? No. So your manager was informed of all this stuff and, hey, go deal with that. Yeah, so you haven't... No. Your manager was informed of all this stuff and, hey, go deal with that. Yeah, pretty much.

I gotta act. Pretty much. I gotta hit acting class. Now, you wouldn't be opposed to doing a Metamorris with him, though. No, I'm not opposed to doing a Metamorris with anybody. I think... I don't think I'll ever get a chance

to finish the rubber match with Noguera, but I could at least probably get him on the mats in Metamorris. Do you think so? I think so. I mean, I don't see why he wouldn't want to do it and why people wouldn't want to see that, but I've already got a Brayu Cyborg coming up May 9th for Metamorris 6. That's very interesting. That's very interesting, especially after you just submitted Dean Lister.

That's very huge, dude. Submitting Dean Lister. That's very huge, dude. Submitting Dean Lister is a gigantic accomplishment. Hadn't been done in 16 years. That's amazing. Not since the Clinton administration had anybody tapped Dean Lister. And the way you got him with that choke, I mean, that is some old school shit. That's high school wrestling, practically. Yeah, and with wrestling shoes on and the old school spandex,

the sexy spandex. Oh, man. Pull out the photo of Josh Barnett. Now, did you wear this, Josh Barnett? Ladies, invent your eyes. Please. Lest you'd like your panties to catch fire. Prepare your vaginas for a fury of hormones.

Did you wear this like an homage to pro wrestling? Absolutely. It was an homage to my trainers, uh, Billy Robinson, Carl Gotch, uh, and, and also to Eric, cause that's from his roots and Matt Hume. But, uh, it's from my training, my roots, my heritage, my catch wrestling training and to Antonio Inoki, who was one of my trainers for professional wrestling. So I had the towel around my neck the robe even the way i took the robe off and everything that was all all that the black boots it's all black it's all in homage and respect to my my catch wrestling roots and my trainers well

it's i think it's important to highlight those roots too for the just the lineage of mma because a lot of folks that are on the outside are not aware that there were several different branches of submission fighting. You know, not just judo, not just jiu-jitsu, not just sambo, but catch wrestling had some really legit submissions that are still used today, and a lot of really great grapplers, but catch wrestling eventually sort of morphed into professional wrestling. And a lot of folks are not aware of the original aspect of catch wrestling,

which you're talking about these three-hour matches and guys that would go to, they would do carnival matches where they would roll into town and wrestle anybody in the house. Do you know who owned a big old carnival in Brazil? Who? The head of the Gracie family at the time. Gustavo. Really? He owned a carnival and he had professional wrestling

catch wrestling matches at his carnival. Who should happen to come and perform in one of these catch wrestling matches but the Count Coma Mitsuo Maeda. He stayed in Brazil. Carlos Gracie started training under him in judo and catch

that is where now all of a sudden you have gracie jiu-jitsu so it's sort of branched off from a bunch of different sources not just from judo but from catch wrestling as well right because maeda had been traveling the world competing in catch matches and all that. Kimura competed in catch matches as well. So even the Americana arm lock came from American wrestlers. Catch. The Lute de Livre background comes from catch. Tatu, Euclides Hatem, he was a catch wrestler. He was trained to do show matches, but at the same time, he trained even back then, even if you did

works, you trained as a shooter. You trained to do that shit for real. Look at this beautiful outfit. Look at this motherfucker. Comes out with a robe on. This is so old school of you. Look at this. To do this in Metamorris, you almost had to feel like you're

kind of wearing a costume. Yeah, I knew that people would be unfamiliar. They wouldn't understand it. Morris, you almost had to feel like you're kind of wearing like a costume. Yeah. I knew that people would be unfamiliar. They wouldn't understand it. Well, a lot of people did understand it though. A lot of people in the underground, especially were like, look at this shit. And those socks are for a reference to all my time spent in Japan and, uh, you know, the people I've trained over there. Uh, but, uh, they, uh, uh, you know, they, they they they laughed when i said i was gonna wear

shoes they're like oh my god you're gonna wear shoes against dean lister oh you're i don't think you should do that there's a leg lock specialist right shoes provide a lot of extra traction for holding all this stuff about oh i can't believe you're gonna wear are you still gonna do up until the day of the event you're really gonna wear to wear shoes? Yes. I go out there. I tap him. Oh, those shoes. That gave him such an advantage. Oh, but it's like, oh, fuck.

Are you kidding me? Now the shoes are not my detriment. They're my disadvantage. Oh, and then it was, you weighed so much more than Dean. Dean was like 240. I don't know. I was like 255. So I had 15 pounds on him.

I hugged. I gave Dean a hug the day of the weigh-ins. Well, we didn't actually weigh in, but I gave him a hug. And my fingers, I had to catch fingers and roll my grip into it to actually get all the way around him. He was so fucking thick. He's a big fucker. Thick and veiny. Purple. Whoa, easy.

Slow down. I got nervous. You want to help me on my ground game? Yeah, sure, sure. Don't worry about it these days. He was a big, massive guy. When he fought Babalu, I was really shocked that he was allowing almost Babalu to lock up Darces on him. Babalu is a really good submission guy.

Yeah, he is. He's excellent. Dean's just so wily at getting out all that stuff. Yeah, I was shocked. I was shocked that he was allowing that. But it also looked like he didn't have the gas to go a full 20. Like, you know, Babalu at the end of the match was in way better shape than Dean was. I agree.

He was carrying around all that muscle, all that mass that he carried. You're a bigger guy. He might be 240, but a lot of that is Mexican supplements. There's a big difference between your 240 and his 240. I don't know. I mean, I think avocado hot sauce, that stuff has done wonders for endurance. I am speaking of different supplements, sir. Of the green sauce.

He's so skilled and talented, too. I mean, it's not just all the extra muscle he's packing up. He was strong as shit when I wrestled him, and apparently his guys and him, Dean said he wrestled a lot of big dudes. They wrestled against guys for pressure from top, and it's just that I was able to apply it that much better. Did you think that you were going to be able to catch him with that choke? Was that something specifically that you had saw before?

Did you game plan? Well, yeah. Well, Rico Rodriguez was the last guy to tap him. Before that. And how would he tap him with? Same choke. Exactly. Oh, shit. You know who taught Rico

the choke, by the way? Who? Eric Paulson. Get the fuck out of here. Boxing works in Redondo Beach. Yes. God damn, man. Yeah.

God damn. You know, I remember first hearing about catch wrestling. Was it Frank Gotch? Was he the one that would drop? No.

Who was the guy that would drop down? It was a small dude. What the fuck was his name? God damn it. I'm so Was he the one that would drop? No. Who was the guy that would drop down? It was a small dude. What the fuck was his name? God damn it. I'm so out of the catch wrestling loop. Frank Gotch is an American catch wrestler. Was that who the guy was that used to drop?

He used to do like hangman's drops? Oh, that is Farmer Burns. Farmer Burns. Martin Farmer Burns. Farmer Burns. Who was Frank Gotch's coach. I knew there was an F in there somewhere. It's Farmer.

Yeah, he can hang himself and not go out and not break his neck. There's pictures of it. Look up Farmer Burns catch wrestling image. See if you find an image of this guy fucking hanging himself. It's morbid. Yeah, look at that. Look at that. Look at that fucking picture. The guy hung himself. That's how strong his

fucking neck was. He would hang his whole, probably really good for decompression of the spine i actually do a thing in my house where i are you jerking off at the same time oh i wear a wetsuit there's a black dildo i have this um this thing that i bought a spinal decompression setup that hangs from a door you put it on the like a door like a bathroom door it's like this bolt it screws in place it has like an arm and then you ratchet it, like click, click, and it decompresses your spine. It's like a nice little stretch.

Right. But this motherfucker's hanging. David Carradine did, too. I don't think that's the same. I think what he did was different. How does that not just rip your door off the hinges? Because you're not really putting your whole weight on it. You're sitting down, first of all.

You do it in a chair. Say this thing, it's Velcroing to your head. I know what you're talking about. I do know what you're talking about. I think if you can use it properly, it's a good thing. Having spinal decompression is important.

But what he was doing was not that. It's insane. Catch wrestlers train fucking hard as shit. This is what it. No, no. This motherfucker was. It's insane. And you know, catch wrestlers train fucking hard as shit. This is what it's like, Brian. No, that's not it Jamie, fuck. See this? Oh, wow.

See this thing? Yeah, that's craziness. That's exactly what it is. His face looks just like that when he does it too. It stretches your neck a little bit. It gives you a little decompression. It's like you got a jock strap wrapped around your jaw. That's not what it looks like. That's what it looks like. It's more like a bra. It's more like a bra.

I once, oh God, I've pissed off so many women when I've said, oh, hey, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Don't forget your training bra. Training, training, like training, being athletic. Yeah, no, I didn't mean. Yeah, you can't say that. I just get the evil look. I don't mean.

Like you have new tits. Yeah, I meant the say that I just get the evil look at it Mike. I don't mean like you have new tits Yeah, I meant Bra when you train what do they call one of those sports bra sports bra? It's bra training bra you got to be real specific. It is a bra that you train in mmm That's not how they look at a training bra. It's a very different now No, it will get you all kinds of heat, but dudes wouldn't get upset if you said Training underwear what if you say well if you said, pick up your training underwear. What if you said,

well, if you said, go get your training bra, he's like, what? Yeah, but if you told a guy, go pick up your training cup. What do you think? Like, oh, my dick's growing? What are you trying to say?

Getting used to wearing a cup? Yeah. You need support in all the right places. You know, this is a very random question or it's very specific, I should say.

What do you think about Thai steel cups for grappling competitions? Oh, yeah, sure. They're getting outlawed in a lot of grappling competitions because they provide that extra leverage. They're like a fulcrum point, like a leverage point.

Okay, then everybody's got a free ball. Free ball. You know, you just got to use that third hook, wrap your dingus around there. See, we bring Brian on these podcasts. Everything goes in the fucking 12-year-olds. Well, here's the thing. No, I mean, I'm here.

I'm barely 11 1⁄2. So I usually don't train with a cup. You don't? No, because my legs are so big that it puts bruising in the inside of my thighs. I personally, I have a thing I like to call combat cock, where everything just sucks in. Do you remember those guys? It knows better than to get fucking hanging out there.

Hey, how you doing? What's up? High five with your foot. Oh, your dick is educated. My dick is smart, just like the Shaolin monks. I've known guys that have lost a ball from that. Yeah, not me. Yeah, there was Brian Foster

that was fighting for the UFC. He was in training and he got kicked in the balls. That's one of his balls. Did he ever find it? You got stupid dick? Yeah, his dick's retarded. His dick makes terrible decisions. What's going on? How you doing? Yeah, his dick is always like,

what are you doing going there? Have you seen where his dick has been? Can you imagine? His dick's lucky to be alive. Have you? Have you? Yes, I have. I've seen, like, pictures. Oh, you've been in the room. Oh, fuck.

Not the same room. You know what? You've been in the room after it was over. You just want to take, like, a whole, like, a bottle of paint thinner and be like, you need to just dip in this real quick. Did you guys see that thing? There was a fucking guy who is a scientist for monsanto and was trying to say that to pull it off of my um my youtube uh my rather my twitter feed this

is hilarious i retweeted it this this fucking monsanto scientist was trying to say that um this pesticide was totally safe to drink the stuff that's in roundup and then you could drink it and nothing that neonicotinoids or whatever so there's. And you could drink it and nothing would go wrong. So there's a video of him saying it. And so he's talking to this journalist. And the journalist goes, oh really? You would drink it? He goes, sure, I would drink it.

He goes, okay, we're going to get you a glass and you drink it. Watch this. GMO Advocate says Monsanto herbicide is safe to drink. This is great. Aye. says Montance Monsanto herbicide safe to drink that's it glyphosate glyphosate watch this shit notice deformities and children growing the country's agricultural region Monsanto has denied any wrongdoing and that the product is safe and that's where dr. Patrick Moore comes in. The Monsanto lobbyist sat down

with French cable channel Canal+. Moore said, you could drink an entire quart of this product and it wouldn't hurt you. A quart? You can drink a whole quart of it and it won't hurt you. You want to drink some?

We have some here. I'd be happy to, actually. Not really, but... Not really? I know it wouldn't hurt me. That's when the interviewer asked Moore to put his money where his mouth was and drink the weed killer. Okay, then it's finished. Then the interviewer asked more to put his money where his mouth was and drink the weed killer

Okay, then it's finished. Then the interview is finished Yeah Well, why did this Something apparently was more to it a complete jerk and French's canard. Is this the one that was on my Twitter feed? Maybe I watched more than one version of this, but the conversation lasted a little longer than that. What a fucking dickless asshole. Lying piece of shit. Isn't that amazing?

It's like, I would drink it. Okay, you want to drink it? No. You're a complete jerk. Complete jerk. Connard. That guy's a doctor. How fucking stupid can you be? When you go to school, you're a doctor. You get a can you be when you you go to school? You're a doctor you get a degree and then you're smart enough where you get hired by Monsanto You're smart enough where you do interviews and you're expected to be an expert, but you're so fucking stupid

You say something like oh you could drink it. I would drink it. You know what you would drink it We have some stupid or you think he's just being a piece of shit and trying to lie. Yeah, I think both Did they go into it and go like we broke down the chemicals in this it would actually be safe like did They expand that at all Because a lot of those things like the real issue is prolonged exposure Like I know a dude who has bone cancer and he got bone cancer because his family lived near a golf course and the golf Course used a lot of pesticides and and it infected the well water. And all the kids in the neighborhood got cancer, too.

His next-door neighbor got cancer. The dude who lived across the street got cancer. Because it was so important to keep that grass nice and lush, right? I don't think they knew. I think there's a lot of carcinogens. I'll give them that. Back in the day, they didn't understand how potentially hazardous long-term effects versus short-term could be. They didn't really know how bad cigarettes were entirely at a point.

But then it came a point that they did know. I mean, cigarettes still blow me away. Why do you add the shit in, all the poisons? It's okay. You're inhaling smoke, which we all know is bad. You can die from smoke inhalations. Carcinogens are in there. Fine.

We got it. Do you have to add all the other crap that's in it? They add all know is bad. You can die from smoke inhalations. Carcinogens are in there. Fine. We got it. Do you have to add all the other crap that's in it? They add all the other shit. Arsenic and all this garbage. Just to get you more addicted. Why don't you just give them the fucking leaf? Did you ever see? Be it weed or be it fucking tobacco.

Just let them smoke it. Let them know what's going to happen. But you don't have to help them. You don't have to fucking add rat poison to it. I'll try American Spirits and compare it to a Marlboro Light. There's a huge difference in taste and everything. But yeah, they shouldn't do it. Okay, so explain to us.

So you say that American Spirits tastes like shit and the Marlboro tastes better. American Spirits lasts forever. I mean, you can have one cigarette. It takes like 15 minutes instead of like two. It's a harsher thing you wake up the next day you're like like spitting up goobers and like it's really bad for you feeling uh body wise where marlboro like you can smoke a whole pack what about pipe smokers i mean i've known i mean one that shit usually smells good around yeah it does smell good and two they

don't seem to be yeah well bertrand rus didn't he live to be like fucking 90-something? He smoked cigarettes every day or smoked a pipe every day. You'll find people anywhere willing to, for the right amount of money, to just fucking railroad humanity. Yeah. They just will do it. I mean, what about all these climate change fucking assholes, climate change deniers? Yeah. Well well it's so

when they find out when they're getting paid it's just so shocking and you know what's funny is there's actually you can go online and find all the senators and all the congressmen

that are all climate change deniers you can find them all they've listed all their names well it's not just that how about the different doctors that are testifying

against marijuana you find out they're being paid by pharmaceutical companies this time and time again experts have been co-opted by money but when you see it's so clear the different doctors that are testifying against marijuana. You find out they're being paid by pharmaceutical companies. This time and time again, experts have been co-opted by money. But when you see it so clearly,

like this fucking guy, you could drink a whole quart of it and you'd be fine. Okay. You want to drink it? No, you're a complete jerk. I wouldn't drink a whole quart of fucking orange. Yeah.

And they say that's safe, right? Which I, I don't know, but I'm not going to drink a quart of it. Yeah. Fuck that. If you did, you would want to throw up.

I'm sure you would. Yeah, I mean, a quart of, first of all, it's a powder. You can really drink a quart of it. You could pour a quart. Imagine the amount of liquid you would have to have to drink a quart of Splenda? Or how about just a quart of water with a appropriately dissolved solid of Splenda within it? I'll do it.

It would only help him. I know. Because, look, if you've survived all the horrible encounters you've had in your life up to this point, Brian, what's that going to do? I mean, you've stared syphil list right dead in the eyes and told you Fuck off you know

Yeah, it's gonna kill the AIDS inside of his body Just fucking I can't deal with this. This is one one level too far Yeah, I wonder if there's gonna come a time in our future where these kind of guys these these guys were obviously bought and paid Mm-hmm just don't exist anymore. How do you do that, though? You have to make people accountable, and we don't want to seem to do that, and then the people you would expect

would make them accountable, right? These checks and balances get put together to, well, this is to police that, and this is to police... They're all fucked up, right? I mean, how do you let the banks just rob you blind? There's that whole LIBOR scandal where they're just fudging, fixing numbers. And they go to Chase and they go, well, we're going to we're going to fine you 12 billion.

Chase makes 45 billion a year. It doesn't fucking matter. What they did in Vietnam was they went and they grabbed all the people, all the bankers and all the officials that fucked everybody over in terms of the banking system. And they stuck them alive in prison and killed them. Now, you have one extreme to the other. But nonetheless, I mean, what is worse? Well, yeah. I mean, there's been many bankers that have been caught that are doing things like they're laundering money for drug cartels. I mean, that was one of the big ones that was recently exposed, that these guys were laundering money for Mexican drug cartels.

They just got a big fat fine. You know, I mean, meanwhile, if it was you, like if Brian was busted laundering money for drug cartels, you'd be in jail for the rest of your fucking life 100% they take all of his fucking dryers and and all those all his whirlpools they'd get it cuz you know he wondering no no he he would really launder it come on I know you know I can do that he'd have an iron ironing board I'll turn it to super I could get more money out of super are you trying to say the Brian is exactly sure what you're trying to super. I can get more money out of super. Are you trying to say that Brian is a child? I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, man. I just like fucking with him because he's here. And he never, every time I've been on your podcast,

Brian's off in the corner doing I don't even know. I don't want to know what. He's right next to you, so he can't hide anymore. And last time I saw him, it was at our buddy Ryan's birthday. Or was it at the Laugh Factory or Comedy Store or whatever? Comedy Store. So, I'm always like, why don't you ever fucking

you know me. Why don't you come and hang out? Say something. Because he's nervous around you. Because you're a man. I am a man. I need you to help me. I make the kind of pheromones that make other men quiver. I need you to help me with my ground game. And my ground game is hopscotch.

Oh, easily. We'll go from that to fucking rubber band jump rope. And we'll do four square after that. That's right. I got all the kids' games down. Do you? Oh, yeah. How am I supposed to meet anybody in this terrible world?

I mean, come on. Online dating? You don't know online game? Go out to the four square courts. Online gaming seems like a better way. That's when you find the athletes. This fucking thing is done. Podcast is over.

Do you want to do five minutes? I've just listened to a lot of Jethro Tull Aqualung. You want to do five minutes? Do you ever want to do stand-up comedy I do and here's why it terrifies me Joe and Brian that terrifies me that you're so raw and exposed up there and I'm not when I go and I fight, I can fight for myself. I can do it all. My success is measured upon my end. Did I get my hand raised or did I not get my hand raised? When you go out on that stage, people are, okay, make me laugh, fucker.

You're supposed to be funny, aren't you? So, all right, here I am. Or they're like this. I don't give a shit. I'm talking to Brian. We're having a drink whatever some fucking noise off to my left I gotta be interesting

I gotta do something that's going to draw their attention and once I've drawn it I need to keep it okay you got me what why should I pay attention and so I there's this necessity to be able to get a response for them which I understand from professional wrestling because I've been out in the ring and I listen to the crowd and I see what works and what doesn't work.

And so I have an understanding, I feel, and from being around yourself and other, you know, I've not like I talk about a lot, but I've hung out with quite a few comedians and, you know, been there backstage for their shows and we're fucking around warming up and doing all this stuff. But I look at it, I go go this is not just cracking jokes and making people laugh and it is okay to bomb because you're going to you're always going to fail but it's just such a raw personal experience to a degree to me it's just frightening utterly frightening yeah you should definitely do it then do it tonight it's not that hard no don't don't listen to him i if you're gonna do it you should plan it out i should definitely think about it and write some stuff down i listen to to things that you've said before about being a comedian from documentary stuff and things that i've seen

of you and i have a thing in here in my notebook all on my phone nothing but bits so you've thought about oh yeah no no I think about it I don't you do it go to an open mic night don't do it at a regular show he's trying to get you to do one of his shows don't do it all right no no no no no do it no you should go to a regular open mic night like whether at the comedy store or wherever you know just do five minutes or whatever they get What do they give you three minutes three minutes or you can be one minute on kill Tony and we can help don't do it No, I don't know about that. You don't do it. They'll put it on the internet and sometimes I'll be honest Joe The shit that once that I want to say mm-hmm

Probably not good for right the rest of what I'm trying to accomplish Nah, I disagree. I don't know what in what way how would it hurt you? Probably not good for the rest of what I'm trying to accomplish. Nah. I disagree. I don't know. In what way? How would it hurt you? I just, really dark, weird, fucked up shit comes out of my mouth. Like, can you give me an example?

No? No. Okay. No, but you can ask. So I did this thing. Before MMA Roasted was anything, right right they wanted to do a they wanted to shoot a sizzle send it off to spike they wanted to make a show an actual show where you do a panel and all this stuff so um um adam and uh oh my god why am i forgetting everybody's name right now

god damn it t T-Rex. So T-Rex hits me up and goes, come on out. Come on, do this thing. All right, what is it? Okay, I'll come sit around. You guys are going to probably try and talk shit to me and talk about my past and fuck with me and say steroids and whatever. But I don't give a fuck. So I come out and they have this green screen thing set up in this deal.

And Adam does some monologue spots. And then he gets to the panel where we talk about whatever's going on in mma and then we can we can fucking step off into any direction we want and have fun and then he'll do a one-on-one where he and the whoever the guest is of the week will will sit there and adam's just basically gonna fuck with you the whole time. So I come in. I sit down on this panel thing and they're filming all of this. So it's T-Rex is to my left. Me, this female comedian

who I don't really know, and then Adam. And then we just sit there and we start talking and I just start saying shit. One, the female comedian immediately gets really upset. What were you saying? T-Rex can't stop laughing. Neither can Adam. And then i keep picking on fucking t-rex the whole time about his clothing line at every at every point available then we go

and we do the the the sit down with me and adam and then i take it from him and then i just start making him laugh and saying really weird shit and completely throwing him for a loop and i just said to him at the end of the day i I go, that was a lot of fun. This has never seen the light of day, right? No, no, no. This is good. Well, what were you saying? Nah. Come on. You didn't want to talk about it. No. But it was funny.

I think, well, they thought it was funny at the time. I thought it was funny, but. But I've said a lot of fucked up things. You can say those things because there's an accepted aspect that you are joe rogan the comedian you're joe rogan talks about dmt talks about marijuana and aliens and all kinds of stuff and we accept that and you're you're you're an established person within the the fan base that you have and you're a known commodity for those that are only casual Joe Rogan knowers from NewsRadio.

No, no, I'm sorry. The fucking. Fear Factor. That, but even before that. The sitcom you did. NewsRadio. NewsRadio. Yeah.

Fear Factor. All these other things where people will see, hey, Joe Rogan, he's a comedian. Maybe we've seen some of his stand-up. Maybe not. But we know him as a personality on television. So you know I'm fucking around, whereas with with you they might just think you're a psychopath and i'm an athlete and i'm supposed to be this and i'm supposed to be that and so if i make off-color jokes that are you know it's like oh that's too far but what if when you retire from

fighting how many more years how old are you now 36 37 37 how many more years do you think you'll be competing uh till I'm done. Until you're done. Until I'm done. Because, like I said before about that athletic window. So, Joe Rogan has this whole part of his whole career is stand-up. Very stand-up oriented and specific. And then, boom, he moves into movies.

And then maybe he goes from there into politics. I mean, the thing is that you can enter any kind of line you want but those things are not incumbent on your physicality what they are is it's your mind it's your ability to you fighting physicality anything athletic wise you have so long to do it and that's it when that opportunity is passed you cannot do it anymore. Now, maybe you could say, okay, well, Joe went for the U.S. national team for taekwondo to win that and then go win the world team trials and go to the Olympics. Going to the Olympics is a short opportunity in life. Once you get past that point to where you can be competitive at that, that doesn't mean you can't do taekwondo anymore. It wouldn't mean that you couldn't do other tournaments but trying to be the olympic champion in taekwondo it's like wow that that one that one's gone that opportunity has passed me

for me when that opportunity to for me to be a successful high level fighter is gone it's gone it's just that's it it's over with you will just have to personally assess when you feel like your body's not performing the way you expect it to exactly but right now you're cool with it right now i'm cool right now i know i can do a lot better than my last fight for sure why did you decide to take so much time off between your last fight and now i wasn't into my last fight to be honest i didn't care i just i wasn't up for it i trained and I got to a point where I'm just like, I'm over this. You're over it. Burnt down?

Who is this guy? Who's Travis Brown, really? It's just like, okay, if I beat him, what does that do? Well, he's a top five fighter. So what? Then I get to fight another guy and fight another guy and fight another guy until it's like, well, where am I going with this? I'm in the grind. I'm not going to climb this fucking ladder to

prove that i deserve to fight for a title i can fight for a title against anyone in any league anywhere anytime fucking i'm a championship world champion level guy i don't need to prove that i belong here i've fought travis browns all my career they just had a different name at a different point in life they had the same type of skill set. They're basically the same guy. There'll be another Travis Brown when Travis Brown is done being Travis Brown. So what are you trying to say? That the only thing that would get you up is to fight for a title?

Not necessarily, but just I got to fight when it makes sense to me. I got to fight when I'm motivated to do so. I'm not looking to try and say, all right, throw me in there with all these other fucking goofballs and let's just beat each other's heads in until we try to prove that we belong here. Does that just signify the final chapter of your athletic career then? Because a guy like Travis Brown, if you were coming up,

you would relish the opportunity to fight a top five guy. Sure. So is it because you're just very established? You've been around a long time? I've learned that I don't need to prove myself in that way. I've been a top ten fighter for over a decade.

I've been top five for over a decade most of the time. So whether or not someone ranks me wherever they rank me, it doesn't really matter. I can step in there and do the job and this next fight might be against roy which is fine but if the next fight is we want you to fight kane or voodoo or whoever like let's go i'm fucking ready to do it but did you feel that when you fought frank meir yes when i fought frank meir i was fucking pumped because for one i've been told oh that i'd heard all these people we we think

it's going to be they always give me such a tough fight and and frank mir is he's the he's the best submission guy and or back when i was in the ufc uh and frank was just coming up like oh this guy's the future he's the best he's going to be the greatest and always hearing all this stuff about how frank mir is my equal or better and i I'm just like, this shit is over with. This is not. I'm going to show you the difference between us, between him and me. So you were excited about him. That was a very important fight for you.

Yes, that was a fight. Travis Brown wasn't. Didn't care. Wow, that's kind of crazy. Yeah. But I guess that's a personal thing, right? Your own personal motivation. The only person who could decide what fights you're up for and what fights you're not are you.

That's true. Would you be up for a rematch? Like if they offered you a rematch with Travis? But here's the difference. If I fight Travis now, I'm going to want to fucking take his head off because he disrespected me in the ring after the match. He did all this fucking shit. What did he do? He fucking cut his throat.

He did all this stuff. But don't you do that too? You do that the time that's my thing he did it to mock me for winning and i'm just like dude i've been nice to you and respectful to you from day one and then the you go ahead and you go and you get a win on me great this is your moment to say what you want to say and what you want to do is to try and fucking put me down after you win so you feel like by him doing this the thumb across the neck thing yeah and apparently he was very dismissive of me in interviews and all this shit and i'm like wow that's cool wait this is your post fight post all post all everything is post everything was post and i didn't find out about this shit until

way after the fact i actually saw him backstage and come up and shook his hand and said all right you know hey this was your night me i don't have any reason to be a fucking prick, especially after I win. But you know what? A guy wins. He feels like he's on top of the world. You know what? That's when you're going to say some shit like that. That's when you're going to act out. And then, ah, fuck. I'm just like, all right, cool. If that's the way it's going to be, awesome. If we rematch, it's not going to be the same dude you fought that night. You no idea you really don't get it you were you will get your ass handed to you because now you made you gave me a reason to want to kick your ass and what would be the difference between the way you would perform in this fight the way you performed the first fight

look for for one i would make him pay for all the big mistakes he makes all the time like what big mistakes he's constantly whiffing throwing the biggest shots that kid has no stamina because he will always go for the kill and everything he does now that makes him very dangerous to a heavyweight especially because he's athletic and he's got some power but that's why verdum took him out because he's missing with all this big shit and he's getting picked apart and picked apart and picked apart and hung on and hung on and grabbed and separated and picked apart and picked apart. I mean, why is Verdum beating you on the feet? Well, he broke his hand early in the first round, too.

That's one of the reasons why. Yeah, well, it's also because he's trying to swing for the fences constantly. That's why he's gassed in every one of his big fights. Any fight that's got any kind of distance to it, he's gassed. Why? Because that's the type of fighter he is. Does that make him a bad fighter?

Not necessarily. I would say it doesn't. It's just that's who he is. He's a fucking wild man. But that's also why I think he will never be a UFC champion because there's a finesse that he doesn't possess. But don't you think that's something you can learn? I mean, he's a guy who's still sort of evolving as a fighter.

Has he? Well, he came into MMA fairly late. He was a basketball player. Well, I mean, time will tell. It's up to him, really. You've got a personal thing with him. Well, but here, I'm being objective, and that is it's up to him. If he wants to make those decisions, if he wants to change his game,

if he wants to add different aspects to it, I mean, all fighters are the true architects of their own design. The coaches can help. Edmund can help him in one way and show him how to strike under these concepts or maybe show the same things that he's been taught at Jackson's or someplace else, but said in a different way so that it becomes more clear to him. And I think Edmund is a good striking coach. I've seen him work with Rhonda.

I've seen him work with some of the girls before, and I like what he has to teach. I also don't believe that at Gregg's that there wasn't that there was any lack of striking quality striking training or i i'm not going to say that edmunds striking training is going to be better than whatever was it was jackson's i'm going to say it's different i'm sure and i know it's good but i i'm pretty sure that jackson's was good too and to make that change i mean only he knows specifically why he decided to change camps. But in my opinion, it's not about being here or there.

It's about what he does to affect his game. It's what changes he decides to make in his own head, the way he approaches his training, and how he tries to take what he's learning and apply it to what he does already and apply it in different ways. You know, that's what it comes down to. I think Edmund is giving him more individualized attention and really focusing on him as an athlete because he only has a small stable of fighters. Maybe.

But in the end, coaches lay the foundation. They point you in the right direction. But athletes take that information and they make the most of it if you how much time in a day can you spend with that coach only so much it's the time that you're not spending with them that really makes a big difference how do you take what they gave you how are you working on that when you're not in the gym how are you thinking about it how are you breaking down your strengths and your weaknesses and dealing with those? How are you then coming back to the gym with that knowledge and then training the next day? How are you setting your mind for training that day? You know, you could have the worst day

in the world, but if your jab got better, so what? It's a success. Does it bug you, that fight? Like, if you look back and the fact that you didn't get up for it and you had that result. Yes, of course it bugs me. Just as Travis is bugged from losing his fight versus Verdum. Because he had an opportunity to fight for the title after that, I'm sure, is the way he saw it. And he lost his opportunity. He may feel it was because of his hand or when he got kicked in the rib or whatever.

It doesn't really matter what it was. We lost. We lost in these moments. And as a fighter, you always should. That's something that I know when I don't care if I lost or not, that's when I should stop fighting. I cared. I cared that I lost. I cared a lot more when I got disrespected over it, which I felt was completely unnecessary.

That just sucked. That was like, wow, wow, why? Why did you have to do that? So if you have a hard time getting up for Travis, why do you not have a hard time getting up for Roy Nelson? Because, for one, I've had some time to just do other stuff and get that fire wanting to get back in the ring. Two, I'm not looking at fighting Roy as fighting Roy. I'm not looking at fighting Roy as I'm fighting Roy

so that I can prove that I can fight Joe Smith next so that I can fight whoever and then get a title shot. I'm not doing that. I'm fighting Roy because I'm fighting Roy. Me and Roy are going to fight. So you have a just different mindset than you had before the Travis fight. Absolutely. And with Roy, he's been around a very long time himself.

And so I've heard things here and there, you know, Roy, one time was on a big, uh, rant online on Twitter about people being ranked over him. And why, why is that? So he's, he's arguing with all these MMA journalists. And then he starts adding my name into it, like literally putting my handle. And I'm just like, why do you give a fuck about it? And my only response was, you know, finding was talk about how he thinks he's better than me or whatever who cares my only response was who gives a shit what other people think about you why are you even including me in this it doesn't matter well don't you think he's just trying to drum up a fight whatever it doesn't matter looks at the list of potential opponents feels he matches up well with you throw your name into the mix use your your at perhaps and you know at the time i

don't even think i was in the ufc so it's not like we could have fought anyways well he probably knew you were coming over from strike force right who knows everybody thought you were coming over if you work out the deal i mean you were always a top level guy right and someone that a lot of different fighters wanted to have as a potential your high name you know high marquee name it wasn't that long ago that anybody ever started actually calling me out like most of my career no one's ever said i want to fight that guy so what do you what do you attribute it to oh i'm older i had a bad loss my last match you know maybe they think that they see it's uh it's more worthwhile to do that but even guys that had

gotten wins over me went through fucking hell to do it so they're just like yeah it doesn't make sense i don't blame them i mean i i don't if i see a guy if i have a fighter and i can avoid having a fight that's winnable but it's going to be fucking really tough yeah i would try not to make that fight happen i would try to get him a fight where it may be a uh a more dangerous fight but much more uh skews in the way of once you get going you can put him away but you got to watch out because this guy can put you away versus this guy's gonna make you fight and scratch and claw for every inch of every second of this fucking match, whether he's winning or he's losing, he'll just never fucking quit. And that's you.

Yeah. And that's you. I break my hand in 23 seconds fighting Cormier, and I still hit him with it. You know what I mean? And this is the type of fight that you think would be that kind of dogfight, you and Roy. Yeah. Well, he's hard to put away. He is hard to put away.

I am a finisher. Jesus Christ, his fight with Aleister Overeem was crazy to watch. I didn't see it, but I heard it. He would eat those kicks to the body. Swack! Swack! You know, Alistair was just laying into him. He head kicked him.

He kicked the shit out of his legs, and Roy just keeps coming forward. Alistair says it was like the Incredible Hulk. He's got angrier and angrier. You get anger, and you see his eyes get crazy he's a wild motherfucker roy yeah hard to believe that he didn't even start striking training until 2009 that's when he started striking that's not true that's what he said well he had a kung fu background too oh did he really yes i mean but what is it what is that i look he knew he knew about throwing a punch. I saw him overhand right a guy and knock him out in Costa Rica. Really?

Oh, yeah. Costa Rica? Yep. Were you guys drunk? What's going on? What happened? Well, we were hired to go down there to provide protection for somebody. I'm just kidding.

What was it? Bodog. Oh, Bodog. It's Bodog. What year was this? He was fighting, oh bodog bodog and he was fighting oh 2007 8 bodog was a fucking interesting little scenario wasn't it it was i was i actually really liked watching it because their production in terms of um setting up each individual fight oh by the way which is funny

because my buddy clint doll did this thing called venom way back in the day and mma was not legal in california so what they did is they rented out a sound stage i was there you were at venom i was at venom so you remember venom yeah tell us explain the whole thing so it's a sound stage and so he hires john sally and steven quadros to be the announcers he's got all these fights set up that they're all going to film in one or two days. And then they're going to prepackage it to go sell it elsewhere. He set up roving cams, hard cams. He set up all this stuff.

He had all these people just show up as extras to just stand around, which I guess you were there hanging out too. They ordered pizzas for people to eat at one point, and they called this thing a production, you know, in terms of... It's a film. Yeah, it's a film. It's a movie. So they had these people fight, pretending that it was like acting. Meanwhile, they were fighting.

For real. Yeah, but they just had it... Well, it's acting. They're sparring as actors or something. They tried some wacky loophole. And it worked. And so. Didn't they get in trouble, though?

I don't think so. It's just that it never went anywhere. To my understanding, Sally was supposed to get it to the Fox people. And I don't know what happened there. It never took off. Either way. One, a lot of people got their start there. And nobody even knows it.

And two, what they did is the way they filmed all the fighters. They had all of their bios, these backstories. They had Mike, what's his face? Mike Seal from New Mexico, who was a bank robber in Mexico. And he got in trouble for that and came. I mean, so there's all these stories about these guys. And so how Bodog got a hold. They used the same format, partially because one of the dudes that was producing Bodog had Venom from way back in the day.

And basically just took the whole concept of how they would produce it and used it for Bodog. Well, Bodog, they would put on fights on the beach in Costa Rica with all these hot chicks around. Best ring girls just about ever. Oh, my God. It was amazing. Was that pay-per-view? I can't remember. I remember watching.

It was on TV. They were on TV. It was on TV. So they shot it as a TV product. They would shoot all these fights over four days, and then they would chop it up into TV episodes. And it looked really fucking cool. Did they just run out of money? And it looked really fucking cool.

Did they just run out of money? Basically, there was a lot of people involved in Bodog that were basically just robbing the coffers while the king sleeps. They were just running it dry, thinking it was just going to be a failure. Just get all you can while you can and just fuck it over. And they did. They used to do those billboards. Calvin Iyer presents Bodog. So it would be him. Bodog fights on a throne.

It'd be him with a beautiful suit on his face. Nobody's buying the fights to look at you. It didn't make any sense. It was such a vanity project. It was definitely retarded in that way. But Roy was down there. He fought Mario Rinaldi. Knocked him out with an

overhand right. Well, he always could punch. I just don't think he was training it. According to him. I just don't think he was training it. Well, according to him. I don't buy that. He also used to weigh like 220, 215, and he beat Frank Mir in a grappling contest. Remember that? Yeah, what happened with him? Mir was all over him like fucking white on rice.

Got tired. Got tired, and then Roy just outscored him. But what happened? What did Roy do that made him gain all that weight and keep it on while he's getting in shape? That's what I don't understand. I don't think it's not what he did. It's what he never stopped doing, you know? I just don't know how you could be in good enough shape where you can go three hard five-minute rounds and not lose that gut.

I don't know. You've got to fuel that gut. That gut has got to be he's he's working on that thing there maybe there's uh like a little tapeworms in there fusion engine inside that it just keeps them going well there's a lot of padding i'll tell you that because he ate those fucking alistair over in body kicks i don't even think that padding can make that big it's just that's just being strong and tough as shit yeah well that would be a good fight man i would like to see that fight

I think so too. I think it'll be entertaining if it'll actually happen yet I think it will but yeah, we'll have to see once once we have paperwork and we have wet ink ink Wet works. All right, we gotta get the fuck out of here Josh L Barnett on Twitter Anything else you want to tell the fine people about before we get the fuck up out this bitch? Check me out on AXIS. Are you still doing your podcast? No, I am not.

Couldn't do it the way I wanted to do it. So I said, if that's not capable, then I'm just not going to do it. Why don't you just do it on your own? Do it the way you want to do it. It's a lot of fucking work, dude. You should know. Listen, man. This is all you need.

Get a phone. Start talking into it. Talk shit. Upload it online. Call need. Get a phone. Start talking into it. Talk shit. Upload it online. Call the Josh Barnett podcast. Take it from there. You know, I did some good things on it, but it wasn't... There was a lot of stuff that just wasn't

allowing it to really be what it could be. All things in their own time, my friend. All things in their own time. Josh L. Barnett motherfuckers. Watch him. Metamorris. It'll be May 9th. May 9th. Really interesting. Against Cyborg. How do you say his last name?

Abreu? Abreu. I've only seen it written. I've never actually said it. Abreu? I've heard it. Either way, he's an amazing jiu-jitsu fighter. It'll be a fantastic match. Josh Barnett, ladies and gentlemen. Anything going on you got? 420 Vancouver just went on sale today. Secret show next week with Tom Segura,

Christina Paziski, and Steve Agee, and a bunch of people at the Comedy Store. And you've got something in San Francisco and Sacramento coming up. San Francisco, Sacramento, next May. All these tickets. Is it called Sticky Icky or Purple Nerple? Nah. It's called Suck It Bitch. But we're going to be at the

Punchline, me and Tony. Oh, and I am at the Ka Theater at Mandalay Bay, or at the MGM rather. That is... Is that May? When the fuck is that? Yes, it is. It's May 20-shit. What date

is that? May 22nd. May 22nd. It's my anniversary. May 22nd, MGM, the Ka Theater with Tom It's my anniversary. Tom Segura. May 22nd. MGM. The Ca Theater with Tom Segura and Tony Hinchcliffe. Holla! All right, my friends. That's it for this week.

See you soon. Bye-bye. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss.

Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss.

Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss. Big kiss.