The Joe Rogan Experience - #662 - Vinny Shoreman

Episode Date: June 18, 2015

Vinny Shoreman is a mind coach and kickboxing & muay thai commentator and coach. http://www.vinnyshoreman.com/

All right, we're live. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Vinny Shorman. How are you, buddy? Hello, I'm fine. How are you? Good, good. Pull that mic up. Get it right up there. Okay. We just did a hypnosis, hypno session. How would you call it? Hypnotic session? No, just say it's a session. Hypnosis? Just a session? Yeah, stuff.

Mental training, mind stuff. Vinny is the man that Joe Schilling had experienced some fantastic results doing this with you. Joe Schilling, who's the world champion kickboxer, Bellator fighter, guy who's been in here before. And he told me about you and you and I went back and forth on Twitter and email. And then we finally got together today and did a hypnosis session and uh i'm here to tell you hypnosis is real it does you definitely go under there's something happens you go to some weird dream state la la land how long was i under for um four and a half days no you were to be honest about i'd say 20 minutes 20 minutes minutes. Maybe 20 minutes, 30 minutes.

I kind of get lost in it too, you know? It seems like five. No, it was longer than that. Yeah. Yeah, it was longer than that. It was like I remember the beginning part and then all of a sudden it was over. I was like, whoa. And there was some weird dream state stuff going on in the middle where you were talking about some things,

but I was thinking about other shit. But when I was thinking about shit, I was like, like wow i'm in a weird state of mind right now while i'm thinking about these other things like i better get back to on track about what vinnie's talking about you know i think it's funny because it's i've done it everything i do with my clients and you've experienced i've experienced and you put it right yeah it is weird yeah it's weird because it's it It definitely works. Well, there's different states that the brain operates in. We all know that. There's states when you're stressed out.

There's states when you're super happy. There's states when you're very focused. There's states when you're in danger. There's states when you're in love. And we all know that these are weird places that your brain can go to, weird frequencies or weird vibrations or whatever you would call it but to be able to uh manipulate it like that to be able to put someone into a state like that or help them assist them getting into a state like that that's

a very uh very unique skill yeah i mean all hopes all hypnosis is self-hypnosis anyway so you do it i just guide you into it you know and you know give you ways of just going into hypnosis is a natural state like we said we said i was talking earlier like you know you're driving and all of a sudden you end up there and you think shit how did i get there i don't do that because i'm rubbish at driving but you know other things where you just, it just seems, televisions, hypnosis, music's hypnosis, they're all different states, and we're all in different states all the time. So, like a movie that just captures you,

and you don't even realize you're watching it. You're just totally captivated. You're inside. You're completely absorbed in the film. That's almost like a hypnotic state. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, clapping for Superman, for instance. We know Superman doesn't exist, unfortunately.

Sorry to break anyone's hearts out there that love Superman. But, you know, it's just a part and parcel of using your imagination to get you to a place where you want to change. to get you to a place where you want to change. So, but that state that you achieve when you hypnotize someone, when you put someone in this really relaxed place and you have them focus on very specific things and you get them to this weird state where your mind drifts off into that dreamland, that's very different than a movie or very different than driving home in your car. It's pretty intense.

Yeah, it is. They're all imaginative processes anyway. They're all imaginative processes. But with hypnosis, you're focusing on a specific problem normally. You're focusing on a specific problem. So it's the lead into it it depends it depends how the client is um i don't always use hypnosis i am a mind coach i don't class myself as a hypnotist although hypnotherapy is part and parcel of what i do i class myself as

a mind coach because there's different facets to it there's different ways of leading people into various things and considerations about what they say especially using language um when it's out of out of sync sort of thing doesn't make sense and then you might you know have to make sense of it and then unconsciously your unconscious mind deciphers it and gets you the best results really well it's it's fascinating to me because for the longest time mind coaches were sort of unheard of in combat sports it was almost like it was a scarlet letter or you know my mark against you because you were so weak that you needed someone to figure out how to hypnotize you or how to talk

you into being strong you needed a coat you should just be a fucking man and get out there and do it right like that was the attitude that a lot of people had yeah in england say don't be so soft going to be all right don't be so fast they say that in america too yeah but they don't say it with that same yeah i want to say with the same cockney tone i don't know why i did the cockney tone there from the north yeah i mean it was uh yeah it's all macho you know don't you know get on with it blah blah blah i've seen more people who are very, very skilled get beat by their own self. You've seen that, you know, their own minds. And then it can be a very, it can be very hard for people.

Well, the reason why I was going to bring that up, because I think that fighting in particular is probably the most difficult of all chosen endeavors outside of being a soldier. It's the most difficult of all chosen endeavors as far as chosen goals that you're trying to accomplish. What you're trying to accomplish is you're trying to use your body, use your bones and your muscle to defeat other people who are also using their bones and muscle. And the techniques are all readily available. There's no secrets anymore. I mean, there's a few secrets. If you have really good coaches, you can get some tips.

But essentially, everybody knows how to punch. Everybody knows how to kick. And you're just trying to figure out how to maximize your possibilities, maximize your potential for victory and how to not get in your own way, not how to not trip over your own fears and anxiety. And that's where this mind coach thing comes into play. And that's where I think it's applicable, not just for fighting, but also for just life in general. not just for fighting but also for just life in general because I think that for a lot of people their success or failure a big part of it is predicated on how they view life and how they view themselves and how they approach each each thing each obstacle each each goal, each endeavor that they're attempting to solve or to give their own expression to.

And I think that if it works on fighting, it'll probably work on anything. And if you can get someone to a better place mentally where they can become a more effective fighter and stay out of their own way in terms of their anxiety and their fears. The reality of fighting is you're probably going to get hurt at some point in time. It's just part of what you're doing. You're in the hurt business. This is the hurt game. And somewhere along the line, you're going to get hit and you're hopefully going to hit

the other person more than they're going to hit you but bad things happen to great fighters yeah we've all seen it yeah I mean it's part and parcel of everything you know if I can makes it's not just about fighters I mean I do work with fighters because I come from a Muay Thai background I've been involved in it a long time 30 years now I know it's you have to, fighting's hard, as you know, of course. But fighting yourself as well as an opponent, as well as trying to listen to your corner, as well as hearing people scream your name

or other people screaming for the other person to kick your ass, it's difficult. You have to kind of go within, you know, and control everything that you do and try and impose what you've got to do on the other person yeah doubts and fear um they're extra weights that you carry into the ring yeah or into the cage they're the and in life i mean and again it's analogous to life doubts and fears on top of the reality of the difficulty of what are you trying to do whatever you're trying to do those doubts and fears they're like it's like

a heavy weight vest that you're carrying on top of the burden of whatever you're trying to accomplish in the first place and for fighters it can be just smothering it can it I mean we've had many instances of guys backstage that either didn't fight or almost didn't fight because they're having anxiety attacks because they were freaking out because the moment was finally there and their mind was just running away from them yeah just run your mind was trying to figure out a way out of this like yeah we can figure out a way out of this all we have to do is just go crazy here and the doctor will come over and you know how about you have a few heart

palpitations and fall down you can't breathe and then the doctor's gonna rescue you yeah you're ill no more fighting yeah you're ill i hope the doctor finds something wrong with me because i'm ill yeah everyone's considered that i mean i did the same i thought you know if he sees that i'm ill i've got cough i'm ill and then i don't have to go in there but you know it's it's about controlling that fights are won and lost in the changing rooms. Sometimes. A lot of the time, you know. But you can be the most confident motherfucker on earth,

but if you're fighting Anderson Silva in his prime and you're not that good, you're probably still going to get lit up. Yep. And that's a problem. Getting yourself lit up as bad as you could, as you would if you didn't do anything about it. You know? Maybe. You know?

Maybe. You know, there's only so much. Yeah, there is. Yeah, there is. I mean, not everyone's going to be a champion. Right. That's a fact. That is a fact.

You know, they don't throw these belts around, do they? The UFC and the WBC boxing, they don't just give you a belt. You know, and there's always... But from my point of view, I like seeing people conquer shit that really debilitates them. Whether they win, lose or draw, sometimes it's irrespective. It's the experience of them saying, I did a lot better than I thought I would do and all that sort of stuff. And they can live with it. Some people lose and they just never forget it.

And it can haunt them for eternity really. Yeah they define themselves that's that's a real issue with human beings they define themselves for their past failures even though they've learned from those mistakes they always look at themselves it's like God I'm the guy who did this I'm the guy who shit his pants I'm the guy who you know got in that car accident I'm the guy who showed up know, got in that car accident. I'm the guy who showed up late and got fired from my job. And you become, instead of a human being who has a lifelong, just a giant string of experiences, a lot of them that you've learned from and that you're better

because of, instead you have the sting, like the emotional sting of those failures that just haunt people and that's very common with people that they get haunted that's why some people are haunted by high school by by grammar school and high school bullies yeah definitely being bullied like define them during their formative state and you know i've known a lot of fighters who they've carried chips on their shoulders deep into their 40s from being bullied when they were in high school. A funny story when I lived in a place in England called Macclesfield it's on a big hill where I used to live and I seen the guy who used to live next door to me his mum used to live next door to me he used to live there as

well he was 60 something like that and I seen him at the top of the road and he was stood at the top road and he was looking down the bottom of the road like this. He was looking again. And he was just stood there and I said, what are you doing? And he went, there's two guys down there. They used to bully me at school. I'm waiting for them to go. 60.

60 years of age still. He said, I'm waiting for them to leave. Yeah, he was waiting for them to go. Billy's name is. And he was just stood there and waiting for them to go. That, I like to change and i would love to change it's sad think about it it's a long time you know for him to you know and it's a small town macklesfield where he used to live so he's probably bumped into them he's

probably avoided them in in the store or shops or whatever so for 42 43 years this guy's been haunted maybe maybe more because before then and i hate that i i just it's you know it's it's sad it's a real sad situation but it also seems to be bizarrely and cruelly a part of human nature a part of animal nature so the animals fuck with other animals yeah they try to find the pecking order yeah and it motivates the weak ones to be strong it motivates people to stand up for themselves and that's where i mean the bullying is a horrible thing but bullying is also the reason It motivates the weak ones to be strong. It motivates people to stand up for themselves. And that's where, I mean, bullying is a horrible thing, but bullying is also the reason why a lot of great fighters exist.

Guys like Georges St-Pierre, I mean, he's pretty open about it. Like, the reason why he became a great fighter, because he was tired of people fucking with him. And he might not have ever become the guy who he became if it wasn't for that pressure, if it wasn't for those obstacles, if it wasn't for those obstacles that were thrown in front of his face. And that's very, it's unfortunate that it happens, but objectively, if you step back

and look at just life itself, it seems to be an inexorable part of our existence on this planet. There's a pull and a push and if there's no one pushing there's no pulling and if there's no you know you know i'm saying if there's no there's no negative oftentimes the positive doesn't reach the same heights no it doesn't um in a lot of cases but it's if you can chip away at it or at least change some perspective on it for a person. This is why someone said to me once when they wanted to be a mind coach that, well, I'm only going to work with athletes.

I'm not going to do therapy. It's all therapy. It's all therapy. Regardless of fighters, it's not always about them being nervous about fighting. The fight isn't scary. It might be something to do with a girlfriend, a loss of a family member, whatever. It goes back back way back. It's all part of people's journeys.

It's all part of people being who they are. Therapy has a negative connotation in a lot of people's minds because they connect it to self-indulgence. Like, are you going to go to therapy every day and just whine and bitch about your life? And we've all met people that are doing that. You know, we've all met people that are doing that. We've all met people that are just locked. So for them, it's sort of more about having the opportunity to use someone to talk about themselves. It's an ego trip in a lot of ways.

Instead of trying to solve whatever influences that have control over them. As a therapist, you get to know. As a mind coach, you get to know who will carry on doing that behavior. It's a secondary game. Some people do the behavior just for a game, just to get themselves where they want to get to, to get where they want to get.

You kind of decipher from that. I don't really play that game. I just give them, you well really you know and i just i'm kind of they can be kind of tough with it but you know if you want them to change if they don't want to change nothing you can do right you know i don't want to i don't have these dragged out long you know therapy sessions of and then this and this and this happened and that happened we i try and get right to it right to the right to the core of it and um that's because the way i was trained i was trained by a guy called colin mckay who's absolutely like yoda you know my teacher and i was trained i was trained that way and it has good success and you how did you get involved with him

um i got involved with colin I started, I went to a seminar many years ago by a guy called Keith Mayer and I was at a bad time in my life, being a bit of an idiot, drinking, snorting dancing powder etc. I wasn't being the best I could be. And I went to a seminar, Keith Mayer, loved it, felt great, didn't know why, just really started reading books, everything, Dr. Wayne Dyer and all sorts of things like that. And then I got hold of, wanted to do a course with a company, and the company was good. But I found out about Colin, and that was it. Since then, he's become a friend, and we're're like he's just smart, super smart.

Well, it's interesting because your main pursuit with this or your main focus with this is fighters. So you're dealing with a very concentrated version of this kind of problem solving because of the fact that the existence is so intense. It's so difficult psychologically. It's so difficult emotionally. And it's very difficult physically as well There's so many discipline there's so there's so many factors involved in in being a successful fighter and You are involved in probably like the most

the most concentrated form of Dealing with anxiety and problem-sol solving and the ability to see results yeah to be honest i never thought of it like that i i didn't because i've been around it so long i never really thought of it like that i just do what i do well if you think about it like a person like say if a guy was a a banker or you know an insurance salesman or something like that and they had a bunch of issues that are keeping them back from being successful with their chosen endeavor. Their failure, pro or con, is only financial.

But it's relative to them, isn't it? It is relative to them. Relative to them. But the intensity of it. The intensity of a guy going into battle like yourself, about to go and trying to find coughs and reasons why someone's going to step in and rescue you from what is ultimately your entire focus for the last six to eight weeks you've been ready for this one

moment and the moment's here and you're ready to get the fuck out of there right there's nothing like that in the world of being a banker i suppose it's not but because i've been around it so long you know 30 years been around it muay thai and i found so've seen so many really good fighters in the gym. Awesome. Kicking pads sharp, clinched, everything was sweet. Sparring was on point. And then just to see this different... I think of it like this.

Making a really nice wedding cake and then when you're going to show it to the people that are going to the wedding, just fucking squash it. That's always felt like to me just destroyed their own creation, all the stuff that they've done in the gym. Maybe a better analogy is you wheel that wedding cake out and it melts instantly under the hot lights of the stage,

which is really what it is. Yeah, it does. Because when you have it in a regular room, the lights aren't that hot. And when you have someone in the gym, I mean, there's a lot of pressure sparring in the gym, of course. You know, there's a lot of great fighters. You're working out with people who are very dangerous.

There's a lot of expectations and anxiety, but it's nothing compared to an actual fight itself. That's when everything's ramped up. Yeah, I mean, especially like you said, there's people who have been bullied as well. And you have to consider who you are. You have to consider everything about yourself you know going on that stage going into that lion's den so to speak and you know the gladiatorial sort of archetype of it all but um i i it's it's difficult but there is techniques that work really really well techniques that work really well to get the person out of these negative states of mind these negative patterns to get them to get them because what can these negative states of mind, these negative patterns. To get them, to get them,

because what can happen is you can go away with the train of thought. So it magnifies and goes on and on, gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And the self-talk gets really intense. So it trips you up completely and then can overthrow you and make you, you know, a minimum of what you can actually achieve. You know what I mean?

And you've recently started working with my friend Ian McCall as well. Yes, yeah, I have. Who's another great UFC fighter. He's very excited about the results, very happy about the results. All right, good. I'm glad about that. He loves it. Yeah, we were talking about it, and he was like, I'm 100% sold. I really, you know, when I first, he said when he first started doing it,

he was like, eh, we'll see. But then, you know, once he really experienced it, he was like, okay, I'm going to be doing this from now on. Yeah, I really like Ian McCall. He's a real nice guy. We've not done that much, really. Did you work with him after his last fight? Did you work with him after the... No, I've only been...

I actually don't know because, you know, i haven't followed ufc that how dare you i know i'm sorry i'll leave now but um i finished my coffee first but uh polite i'm english but it's like you know um i think it was after his last loss he said he was feeling certain things yeah yeah was that the guy the little stocky guy that just wind shots him yeah i yeah i did see that and um since working with him it's just it's just about finding out who they are everyone's different and that's why i like to work with people once i want to do seminars i'm over here doing seminars at the moment but i like to work with people to find out what makes them tick to find out what stimulates them and what doesn't you know and what holds what holds them up. Yeah, definitely.

But Ian McCall's a lovely guy. I really like him. I like him as well. And Joe. Same thing. Yeah, same deal. Great people. Same deal, yeah.

Yeah, and you work with Ross Pearson as well. He's another great guy. I have done. I work with Ross Pearson. I did some stand-up. I used to teach Muay Thai. I was at a gym called Salford Muay Thai. And just holding pads and that.

So I kind of fell out of love with it really, teaching, et cetera, because mind coaching took over it. But, yeah, I worked with Ross as well. He's another super guy. So you're not doing Muay Thai training anymore? You're basically doing all mind coach stuff now? Yes, sir. And commentary for Yokohama and Fusion.

Yeah, and for folks who don't know, Vinny used to do commentary for It's Showtime, which is one of the bigger kickboxing events in the world before it was bought out by Glory. And then now it's – Glory is struggling a bit in the United States, unfortunately. I don't know why. It's just, to me, I'm such a huge fan of it. I think, you know, you watch a fight like Simon Marcus versus Arton Levin. It's a fucking great fight. I was watching it this morning again in the gym. It was an amazing, amazing

fight. Five rounds, went to a draw. I mean, it's just a fucking war between two of the very best guys in the world. So exciting. High-level stuff. I've never seen anyone train like that. We was at Muay Thai in America last year with my friend Brian Dobler from Fontana. He was training

there. Simon was training at his gym. I've never seen anyone train like him. He is a machine. Really? Well, he looks like a machine. Yeah, he does. Yeah, and his fight with Joe Schilling. Holy shit, what a fight that was.

What a fight. Yeah. And Joe wound up knocking him out in the fourth round. They went three rounds. It was a draw after three rounds, and Joe knocked him out in the fourth. It was a fucking crazy fight. Yeah, but Joe Schilling gets up. Joe Schilling's like the guy out of Halloween, Michael Myers.

You knock him down, he's getting back up. Yeah. And he's special. And you were working with him before that fight. Yeah, I was. I worked with him before the first glory when he won it. When he beat Artem Levin. Yeah.

I asked him. I asked him. I met Joe. It was kind of, I don't know. I'll be honest with you. Joe he was kind of I don't know, I'll be honest with you Joe had a bit of a chip on his shoulder he was a bit angry and stuff he won't mind me telling you this because he said I can

so don't beat me up he was a bit like that and I seen him at K1 because I did K1 in Los Angeles a while ago I was talking to him and I said, you're miles better than what you come across on the internet. You're a much better person than what you act.

And I kind of stuck home with him. He made me a friend on Facebook. And then I contacted him and said, you know, do you want me to work with you? And he went, yeah, sure, cool. And then we got on. He's so smart. He picks things up so quickly.

He's so open to stuff. We've done some really, cool stuff. That's I Can experiment on Joe if if that makes sense, you know some things I want to try I And I do them and he seems to work really well on him Like can you give us an example? Like what do you mean like things that you want to experiment with? right, it's really strange, but but it's like I had a think about because I'm English, Sir Galahad, the knight of Sir Galahad, you know, the knights of the round table. Yes.

You know, King Arthur. And Joe didn't want to get injured because he was going to fight, I think it was Robert something or other he was fought on Glory, and then he was going to fight on Bellator against Melvin Manhoff. Okay. And he wanted to come out unscathed. So we persuaded his unconscious mind to have armor like sir galahad so i talked in hypnosis about uh the archetype of knights of the knights of the

round table and he was sir galahad not literally obviously but you know so he had armor so he didn't come so he'd come out uninjured right you know and it works i'm not saying it's gonna work for everything you know like you know start your bullets and stuff like that you know what i mean but it was just it was that getting his mindset into that into that sort of the way of thinking so do you think he was so worried about getting injured right so is that why it was effective because it mitigated the stress that he had of worried about getting injured he's sidelining that can fuck you right if you go like god i don't get hurt god i don't get hurt that that getting hurt yeah is in the back of your mind replaying over and over and over again yeah indeed there was one instance liam harrison was fighting a tie called anawat

kial samlit and he'd fought him before and got stopped in jamaica when john wayne parr fought against borkar Porpomuk. And Liam had been stopped, and I think it was a fourth round with low kicks. So we did a hypnosis to make him called, the hypnosis and the trigger word was warrior. You know, he kept this word, because Liam's, have you ever seen Liam Harrison fight? He's an incredible fighter. And along with Jordan Watson and Andy House and all them from Bad Company in England. And what we did was we did this hypnosis and when I was commentating on the show because he was fighting Anuat in round four and this just freaked me out really to be honest he looked at

me and he looked me straight in the eye and he went warrior and then beat shit out of Anuat one on point and yet afterwards I said you do you remember saying warrior? And he went, no. Didn't remember it. So it was that stuck in his head. That was that. Well, in all fairness, he probably got hit in the head a bunch of times during the fight too. Do you remember where you live?

No. Do you know who you are? I have no fucking idea. Did I win? Yeah. Who am I? I mean, how many times has a fighter won a fight

and then asked what happened? Yeah. That does happen. Because I feel that as a state as well. As both, right? the fighter won a fight and then asked what happened yeah that does happen because i feel that is a state as well there's both right yeah yeah we saw him up uh that flow state that hypnotic state it's saturday isn't it in the japanese martial arts i think it's a state did muhammad ali talk about it when muhammad ali fought cleveland williams he was in that kind of state you know that's my favorite ali fight I'm so glad you brought that up

wasn't he breathtaking? I've played that fight on this podcast at least three times he was in a state, he was in this flow and that's before he went away for three years before they took away his ability to fight because he wouldn't fight in the Vietnam War and then he came back and he was never the same again that Cleveland Williams fight to me is like quintessential

breathtaking, people should watch that that just showed his full potential but yeah, he was in that sort of flow state Penel Wittek never the same again. That Cleveland-Williams fight, to me, is quintessential Ali. Breathtaking. People should watch that. That just showed his full potential. But yeah, he was in that sort of flow state. Yeah. Penel Whitaker, the same. You know, the way he's... I mean, there's one fight where he fought Harold Brazier. Yes. When he moved up to Light Wellaway, do you remember?

And he slipped. I'm trying to do it. I can't do it, by the way. But he slipped, slipped, and he just stepped around him and patted him on the ass. I'm like, come on now. That's a ridiculous skill. Yeah. Well, Whitaker is one of those guys that people kind of forget about. and he just stepped around him and patted him on the ass and like come on now that's ridiculous skill yeah well whitaker is one of those guys that people kind of forget about you know like everyone wants to talk about julio cesar chavez and some great fighters from that era

he beat chavez that fight i think he won i think he won as well of course he did but uh he was one of those guys that for whatever reason people have kind of forgotten about him meldrick taylor a lot of people forgotten about Meldrick Taylor. Meldrick Taylor, well Meldrick Taylor, I shouldn't say this, when Meldrick Taylor lost to Cristiano Espana in, I think he fought in Ireland or somewhere, oh no, it was on the Razor Ruddock and Lennox Lewis bill. I cried. I loved Meldrick Taylor.

He was like my everything. He was my, I shouldn't say that. Whoa. That's like a song. Sorry, it's come out the closet, no. No, but he was my... I shouldn't say that. Whoa. That's like a song. It's come out the closet. No. No, but he was just... I loved watching him.

His fight with Chavez was just an all-time classic. Yeah, well, Chavez changed him. He was never the same after that fight. No. After he got stopped in the 12th, you know, I mean, with like seconds to go. Two parts of his own blood or something, wasn't it? He was swallowing his own blood from the mouth cuts.

But it was just, it was heartbreaking because after that he was just literally never the same. And Terry Norris destroyed him didn't he? Exactly.

I was just going to bring that up. Yeah, and Terry Norris was bouncing on his feet and then Terry, I mean you see Terry now, he's fucked out too. Has he got Parkinson's? They're both fucked.

Is his trainer training, he's training Golovkin, isn't he? Who? His trainer? Yeah, Abel Sanchez is now training Golovkin. Yes, he is. He's training Golovkin, isn't he? Who? His trainer? Yeah, Abel Sanchez is now training Golovkin. Yes, he is. He's training him up in Big Bear.

Who I love. Love Golovkin. If you watch Golovkin explain how he fights, he always talks about how he feels. He talks about emotion. He talks about how he feels. And everything you see him... Even when he's hitting the back,

you see him feeling the shot. You know? Instead of going... You can see him, every single part of the back you see him feeling the shot you know so they're going he's he can see him every single part of him considering everything that he does and apparently he's he even beats people up i think i had that kovalev had lost had left that gym because of gannadi galovkin rumor has it really he drops him a body shot yeah he's a monster who fights 15 pounds heavier yeah too. That's the rumor. I'm not saying it's that. I love rumors.

Spread it up. Spread it up. Spread it up. Even if it's a lie. I don't live in England anymore. In Liverpool, I've moved. You know what I mean? Kovalev knocking on my door.

It was Joe Rogan's fault. He made me say it. Kovalev is a monster, too, man. He's incredible. And look what he did to Bernard Hopkins. Yeah, that was pretty shocking. Pretty shocking. You see Bernard Hopkins in fully defensive survival mode.

Especially in round 12. I thought it looked like he let him off a bit in round 12, I thought. Did you think so? I didn't think so. I don't know. I thought he was chasing him down. I don't know. He's very brutal.

He's on my friend's Facebook. Very exciting. Yeah, with dropping names. But he, it's before he was famous. But he seems to like violent stuff, you know. He's a scary guy. He's a very, very scary guy. Well, he killed a guy in the ring.

One guy died in one of his fights. It didn't seem to affect him at all. You know, a lot of times, like with Ray Mancini or Emile Griffith, there's a lot of fighters, they'll kill somebody. Yeah, Barry McGuigan did as well didn't he did he yeah Barry McGuigan killed somebody as well

I didn't remember that yeah but something happens to them after that where they're never quite the same yeah

Nigel Benn yes Nigel Benn was the same I met Nigel it's interesting again the Joe McClellan fight yeah

if you listen to that at the end of it they said Nigel Benn says the first person I'd like to thank is Paul McKenna for hypnotizing me and making me believe in myself.

And I met Nigel Benn about two months ago. He said that after the McClellan fight? Yes, you watch it. Wow. The first thing he said, I'd like to thank Paul McKenna for hypnotizing me and making me believe in myself.

Because he apparently had a separation of his wife and his girlfriend. That fucks people up, you know. There's a grief attached to it, isn't there? And I mentioned that to Nigel Benn. He's a there's a grief attached to it isn't there you know and um yeah and i mentioned that to nigel banks a massive fan and i mentioned that i said i got into mind coaching because partly is because of how you know what he i mean he got out the ring he got knocked out the ring did he first round and mcclellan was just a monster mcclellan was in his prime and a destroyer back then and they they were, everyone was talking about McClellan eventually fighting Roy Jones Jr. That was the big super

fight that was on the horizon. Sort of like people are anticipating all the different fights right now for Golovkin. They're anticipating possibly Cotto, if not Cotto, maybe one day Canelo. Canelo Alvarez. Yeah, that's a possibility.

That's how they were looking at him until the Nigel Benn fight. And it looked like he was just going to kill Nigel Benn, just beating the fuck out of him. But two things. One, the weight cut issue. That was a big issue because Jerome McLevin was huge and he was cutting a lot of weight to get down to that weight class. And that was back when people weren't doing it well. They weren't rehydrating with IVs and particularly in boxing that the weight-cutting mentality and wrestling is a totally different mentality because

you could wrestle dehydrated and although your performance will probably suffer you are not as concerned about head trauma and the head trauma that these guys get when they're dehydrated it's very very dangerous because the bleeding on the brain is just way more devastating. Apparently all the deaths that have ever occurred or almost all the deaths that ever occurred in boxing have occurred outside of the heavyweight division. And the reason being that those are the guys that are cutting the weight and the heavyweights aren't. But there's this one guy that got really fucked up on HBO. Like I want to say a year or two ago he fought that Cuban kid was it Eric Perez

that he fought is that the guy's name he fought I don't remember I'm not doing a good job of remembering it but it was a rare instance of a heavyweight being like really badly concussed in a fight and having bleeding on the brain and having to get an operation he was a russian guy anyway point being but it's that mcclellan fight was pretty crazy when they did a documentary on uh general mcclellan because you know a fan of general mcclellan who's like knocked out julian jackson not julian jackson i think it was like seven rounds maybe knocked him out in like one or whatever but he said on the second fight in the interview afterwards, when I fought you the first time, I had a headache for three weeks.

I had a headache for three weeks after fighting you. That isn't a good sign. You know, that isn't a good sign. And all of the documentaries have missed that out because I watched it and I thought, I remember because I just, you know, something sticks in your head. I just thought, he's not mentioned that. They never mentioned how he was. Apparently just thought, he's not mentioned that.

They never mentioned how he was. Apparently, they sparred really hard and all that. He's from Cronk. Yeah. They don't play. No. Cronk Gym. Not only do they not play, they used to crank the temperature up.

Yeah, that's true. Manuel Stewart would crank it up like 100 degrees in that place. It was like a sauna. Yeah, they couldn't have no rap music and he's swearing as well. And he believed in, like, when Lennox Lewis fought Oliver McCall, he made Oliver McCall wear white boxing boots because he thought that he made him move quicker. Hmm. Strange.

Strange. But if it adds to stuff. Yeah. Emmanuel Stewart is an interesting guy because he's so nice. He's so personable. He was nice. He was nice. Dead now. Sadly. sadly yeah but he was such

a nice guy and when a when a trainer is such a nice guy like that oftentimes like it seems like the fighters want to fight harder for them yeah like they want to win more like they have this more of like there's nothing worse than a fighter that has a contentious relationship with their trainer yeah and then there's like there's some sort of animosity between the two of them. They leave, they come back. You see a lot of that, and it really trips a lot of fighters up, those contentious relationships they have with their trainers. I think a lot of the times, though, with fighters,

sometimes it may take the position of a father figure, or an elder brother, or especially a father figure, because a lot of them have come from not the best start in life. You know what or an elder brother or, you know, especially a father figure because a lot of like have come from, you know, not the best start in life. You know what I mean? A lot of them come from a place with no father. Yeah, indeed. Big percentage. Yeah, indeed.

You know, so, you know, I always, you know, my trainers, I looked up to them and wanted to please them as well. It's just, I just think it's part and parcel of it really. It is, and I think that's why a guy like Emanuel Stewart was so successful, not just because of his deep knowledge of boxing and his understanding of technique, which all were certainly there, but also just because he was such a great guy. Yeah. When Thomas Hearns fought Sugar Ray Leonard, I remember reading that Emanuel Stewart and Tommy Hearns

locked themselves away for two weeks and just cried. Wow. That's passion. Jesus Christ. That's passion. Get out of the house. Yeah. know yeah and I'll ring me yeah I was only 11 were there any back then were there any did anybody use a mental coach back then do you know of anything is that when when did it start in combat sports I don't know I'm the only one in the world and that's it? I don't know. I'm the only one in the world, and that's it.

That's not true. No, I don't know. I just, actually, I've never heard of anyone that does it. I know these scenes have seen sports psychologists and stuff. I know that Steve Collins, before he fought Chris Eubanks, sorry, you're going about boxing. I love boxing. Keep going. When Steve Collins fought Chris Eubanks, he came in with earphones in and knelt in the ring.

And it played with Eubank's head because Nigel Bennet used a hypnotherapist, Paul McKenna, to go through all that to beat Gerald McClellan. And then Eubank, because he'd injured Michael Watson so badly that he had this in his head that if Steve Collins is like this, he won't know when he's hurt because he'll get in such a state, he won't know when he's beat. You know what I mean? So he was worried that Collins was going to take too much punishment. Yeah, or whatever the game was, but it worked for Collins because Collins beat Chris Eubank twice. We might have beat him anyway.

Might have beat him anyway, but it's two shenanigans, isn't it? It's mind games. Yeah, it's like the fragile psyche of a person that's about to go into unarmed combat like that. It's really interesting because most people would think of them as fearless. They're just the toughest motherfuckers on the planet about to step in between those ropes and duke it out. But meanwhile, they're balancing back and forth. And there's doubt and fear and all back and forth in this there's doubt and fear and all these different things that are playing on their mind um you've seen the mike

tyson movie right yes the documentary yes that one thing that he did that speech where he described what it was like to walk into the ring and what he felt like and how he had all these doubts until he got into the ring and then when he got into the ring he was a god yeah you know they hit me he used hypnotherapy didn't he did he custom always take my therapy i heard it on your show because i didn't know and i heard it one of your guys said i don't know he was speaking to you i apologize remember i know i wish i could remember i remember i remember where my feet were sometimes but um yeah he was talking he said that customer or you'd use it use it well custom model was certainly one of the first and most um where my feet were at sometimes. But, yeah, he was talking, he said that Customato used it. Well, Customato was certainly one of the first and most prominent to talk about psychology to a fighter.

And it was a main point of focus in, like, interviews about Tyson, where he would talk about the things that D'Amato told him. And D'Amato, you know, the footage that they have of him, you know, there's many, many different speeches that he gave to Tyson that were on recordings. And, you know, the one about fire being, you know... Fear being your friend, yeah. It feels like fire.

I'll tell you what else I really like. I like Freddie Roach, of course. Freddie's great. We're going to see him soon. I really like him. I really like him. I have my pictures up with him. He was over the moon. He's like a little kid. When I see him, I was like, oh, it's Freddie Ro freddie's great we're gonna see him soon i really liked him i really like got my pictures up with it was over the moon it's like a little kid on the scene he was like he's a very nice guy he is very nice very very um very uh accommodating well virgil hunter if you listen what virgil hunter says he's he's got metaphors which are learning stories he's

he says a lot of cool things that are like about life. I think if you've got experience of life and you can convey it in such a way that it helps, that's more power to you, I think. Yeah. And Anne Wolfe, too, from the female side, the way she trained Kirkland. There's probably very few trainers as ferocious in the world as that woman. Some of the training that she used to have that guy do. There's probably very few trainers as ferocious in the world as that woman. Yeah. Some of the training that she used to have that guy do. Is she the one that knocked that big tall girl?

Yes. Boom. Yes. Ridiculous. Right shot that one. Ridiculous. One punch knockout. She could fucking bang. Yeah, she could.

Woo. That was a chick that Christy Martin avoided like she was on fire. Right. Ah, get away from me. She didn't want to have nothing to do with Ann Wolfe. And there's a great video of Anne Wolfe driving a truck. And she's got a harness on the front of it with a heavy bag hanging from it. And Kirkland's backing up, doing his heavy bag work, backing up.

It's fucking fantastic. But then when he fought Canelo. Didn't have her in a corner. But that shot Canelo hit him with that. Well, he didn't train with her. And he didn't have her in his corner and she was actually still managing him too. It was just the whole thing was a mess.

That's unfortunate. But you know what? Canelo might have done that to him anyway. Yeah, I mean... Canelo's a motherfucker. I'm sorry, he's dangerous, isn't he? There is all that, but it's like... You know, I think it's...

Prince Nazim Hamed was amazing. Back in his day, when he left Brendan Ingle they had a really close relationship from seven and you know old Irish guy and he's got loads

of stories and you know metaphors and blah blah blah and when he left Winkerbank which is in Sheffield not far from me really

he wasn't the same he wasn't the same like Tyson and Kevin Rooney they just seem to have a gel they seem to know and have a system

that works well look at Tyson was incredible I thought with Kevin Rooney well Kevin Rooney. Right. He just seemed to have a gel. He seemed to know and have a system that works. Well, look at Tyson was incredible, I thought, with Kevin Rooney. Well, Kevin Rooney was still a part of the Customato legacy. You know, he had trained under D'Amato as well, and they kind of carried over. But he didn't have the same relationship with Kevin Rooney that he had with Customato, where it was he wanted Customato's happiness. He wanted Customato's love. He wanted Customato to really appreciate. Father figure again, isn't it? Exactly. he had with custom model where it was he wanted custom models happiness he wanted custom models love he wanted custom auto to to really appreciate yeah I mean the model really literally was me took

him in yeah but again it comes back to what you do and what your focus is worried it is really about mental states that mental state of wanting to please the father, wanting to please this mentor, wanting to this person that you love and care so much about their opinion and their idea of you, that it becomes a significant motivating factor. Yeah, it is. And that tapping into these factors, tapping into whatever it is that allows you to achieve that amazing state of success. That's why I like to get my clients.

I like to get to know my clients in every way because then you get the best from them then. There's a saying that's less than 100% support is sabotage. So if you're not getting 100% with them and they're not giving you 100% back, you're never going to get what you can really achieve. But it's like I like to really get to know them, to understand them understand them once you're a client you're always going to be a client forever you know i've got a support system where again as the same lit off calling is like you know they they get back to you on a regular basis and i never keep out of touch with them because you

always want them to you know if they need me you know because i'm not needy well i don't need to be needed but i like i like staying in contact with him. Right. I like success. I love it. Well, you also develop, it's a project. You develop a relationship with this person and that person becomes a project. Yeah.

And so you seem to get a great thrill out of other people becoming successful. Yeah. Which is a great quality. And that's the exact quality that you need in order to be a mentor, in order to be a coach. The best coaches are clearly the coach that gets personal enjoyment and has a real deep investment in the student getting better. It's like I have a lot of – I get a lot of praise off coaches

I think his name is Mark Kimura Who's Joe's coach I was talking to Joe on FaceTime And then Mark says you've done a really good job I really like that I don't know It may sound a bit gushy But I just love it

I really love it I love fighters I like people achieving I like people getting out of darkness come across a bit um i don't know gushy i just love it i really love it i just love the way i love fighters i like people achieving i like people getting out of darkness i know where it's like to be there you know what i mean and it's nothing more of a relief than not being there you know what i'm saying just point the right direction see people just glow and they think you know and they get that eureka moment the light bulb moment where they've done something wicked or they've done something they didn't think they could do. That for me is priceless.

I didn't get paid for it, of course. It's a job, but it's priceless to me. Priceless. Well, that's probably why you're drawn to it. That's why you're good at it. And that's what you kind of have to be that, right? In order to be good at that job. Yeah.

Like the worst thing you could ever be as a mentor is to be jealous of the success of your student yeah or to hope that your student doesn't do as well but we've all seen that we've all seen that from coaches we've seen that i mean everyone's seen sabotage from coaches that's dark shit yeah yeah it is there is there is an element of there is an element of jealousy, envy, or whatever. Sabotaging in people. And oftentimes it's like former competitors. Yeah. You know, I think, I don't know if you agree with this, but I think when a coach has been a fighter,

there's a transition from him being still a fighter to a coach. You know, I've got a friend called Frankie Hudders who's got a really good gym in Wyvinshaw in Manchester. And I see that with him. Now, he was a fighter, a very good one and I can see the transition now of how he is of being a coach, he's like got all these kids that look up to him and you know

like Jordan Watson's coach Richard Smith, he is the same and he got this sort of, you can see the transition because they were fighters and then they become mentors and coaches, that I like watching that, that's interesting it's an interesting metamorphosis yeah it is and it is mentors and coaches that that i like watching that that's interesting it's an interesting um

metamorphosis yeah it is and it is an important metamorphosis too because if you always identify with being a fighter you're never going to be a great coach you have to accept this new stage of your life and embrace it the same way you embrace being a fighter to do it with 100 of your ability and your focus yeah it's hard for some people because then it becomes not about them it becomes about them helping other people and some personalities are not really suited for that well some well fighters are about them i mean it's you know certain not all of them but certain amounts of it has to be about them because they're the ones that's taking the risk they're the ones that are going to get in the beats, aren't they?

Right. That go in the ring and take the shots and take the pain. You know what I mean? So it's difficult for a person to transition. But that's with the change of values. As you get older, your values change and you start to shift from value to value. Do you have long-term goals as far as like what you're trying to do with mental coaching um yeah i mean i would like to to get into coaching people to be mind coaches

but i want i want elite people i don't want bullshits i don't want that i want people as passionate as me so So, you know, we're going to be doing that in 2016. Colin's got a thing now, so if anyone wants to know about it, they can get me on my website, vinnyshoreman.com,

or Facebook or whatever, the hypnosis page. And we can tell them about, he's got a new sort of series of videos where he can go step by step to learn to be a mind coach my my long-term goal is just to just keep improving keep getting better myself because i love it

reading all the time but i'm quite boring really going on about it to people um my long-term goal is well look how well mike doll says done with his diet you know and i'd like to be that i'd like to get that to be the the the man to go to the go-to guy and i have other people that are the same passion you know regardless of if it's fighting or not just people that just want to achieve or at least get something a little bit further if not really far how many people do you work with that are not fighters um quite a lot yeah yeah quite a lot what's a common thing that they come to you with if not really far. How many people do you work with that are not fighters? Quite a lot. Yeah?

Yeah, quite a lot. What's a common thing that they come to you with? Confidence. They want to improve. Confidence. Everything is confidence. 99.9% of stuff is confidence. And just, yeah, confidence. And people come to me, it's always the same thing. They come in because I work from home.

Or I work on Skype or FaceTime. And they always talk about what they don't want. That's the first thing out come in because i work from home or i work on skype or facetime and they always talk about what they don't want that's the first thing out of everyone's mouth to talk about what they don't want and when you ask them what they do want they still talk about what they don't want so you have to change the direction of the thought pan because they're just so focused on say it's that rock and the rock the rock the rock and you have to just move them to where they want to go and then say now what what do you want? Instead of focus on that, now where do you want to go? Now what are you doing? Okay, and we deal with that in various ways, timeline therapy, hypnosis, whatever.

And then we move them towards where they want to go to. So when you're dealing with someone and their issue is confidence, what are the factors? What are the things that are holding people back? Are there common factors that you find over and over again with people that keep them from being confident? No. This is the Sherlock syndrome, I call it. This is where you have to be like Sherlock.

You have to think, ah. Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock Holmes in English. And you have to think about it and find out what really is going on in there. That's why it's so cool. That's why it's so exciting because everyone's different. And they have this sort of, you know, this thing that keeps them back or whatever. It's strange.

Everyone's different. Whether it be a past relationship, whether it be, like you said, bullying, whether it be parents, whatever. Or a current relationship. Or a current relationship, yeah, that's toxic and they shouldn't be in it. I don't tell them not to be because ecologically it's not right. Ecologically? Psychologically? Yeah, psychologically it's not right.

Like it's not good for the environment? Yeah, it's not good for the environment. It's bad for the ocean. Toxic, violent language, screaming and fighting with your missus. But no, I just think that, you know. They have to figure that out for themselves. They have to figure that out for themselves. And you kind of know anyway.

Right. We've met people that you think, you shouldn't be with her. Yeah. She's fucking bananas or he's bananas or whatever. Yeah. When I was young, I used to try to help those people. I used to try to like tell them, hey man, you shouldn't be in that relationship. You don't get no thanks for it.

You got to figure that shit out for yourself. Yeah. You don't get no thanks for it. You got to figure that shit out for yourself. Yeah, you don't get no thanks for it. No, everyone's going to be mad at you. Her, him, everybody. Yeah. Yeah. So it is about the environment, the environment around them. Yes, it is ecological, sort of, in some ways.

Yeah, and it's also many times whatever's holding them back is also what led them to be in that relationship, that toxic relationship in the first place. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah, I've met people that their relationships is really essentially like a carryover of their mother. And that's always so odd. It's like I have friends who can't do anything unless they check in with their wife. They have to ask their wife for every purchase. They have to ask their wife for any purchase. They have to ask their wife for any decision, anything they want to do.

They can't say, hey, I want to go to the game with Mike. You can't say that. You have to go and ask permission and see if it's okay and would it be alright. These are people that aren't even married. But because you travel and I travel because I come

and take my infusion and Yokow and stuff, if you had a girlfriend, my soon is going to be my wife getting married in August, if you had that sort of where you're going, who you're with, blah, blah, blah, you're never going to, it can't work. I've had those before. So have I. They're brutal. It's horrible.

It's horrible. On both sides. It's brutal for the man, it's brutal for the man. It's brutal for the woman. It's brutal for the woman that's asking the man, where are you going? What are you doing? Yeah, yeah, of course. It's a terrible mind state for her to be in, too. It's more about them than it is about, you know, it's more about them, what they're going

through, their insecurities. I've done that myself. I have done that myself. You feel that. Well, it's very difficult, too, to grow inside of a relationship. Because it seems like you have to have your own shit together before you can attract someone with their shit together. So if you don't have your shit together, you usually wind up with someone who also doesn't have their shit together. And it's very difficult for the two of you together to work it out.

Yeah, like attracts like. Yes. So oftentimes people, like, they really do have to break up in order to get on with their own life. The trouble is they carry it to the next one. They say, oh, that was shit. That didn't work. Let's bring it to the next one. And then it becomes a cyclic behavior.

Right. You know, and then it's difficult. Well, that's the weirdest one when you get involved with someone and then somewhere early in the relationship, they are screaming at you. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. What the fuck is going on here? What is this? Is this what you do? It's boundaries, isn't it?

It's where your boundaries are. Sure. You know, if you've not, you know, you let someone overstep the boundary and all this stuff and go further back and then you end up not being you. It is. And it's also patterns that people fall into because life is very confusing and because life is very stressful and there's a lot going on. So they fall into these patterns of making these same mistakes over and over again from one relationship to the next because there's comfort in those patterns. Yeah. And, you know, you recognize it early on because there aren't any real issues.

Like, we've only known each other for a short amount of time. You're already fucking screaming at me for nothing? Like, why are you screaming at me? You're screaming at me because of some other shit you've got that's trapped. It's not being dealt with and it's an unconscious behavior. It's an unconscious reaction to a situation that's not been resolved. And they think it's normal. It's normal to scream.

Yeah. Because maybe they grew up with people screaming at each other or hitting each other or whatever. It's like to scream because maybe they grew up with people screaming at each other or hitting each other or whatever. It's like this. Yes. Also, yeah. And then you tolerate it. And then increasingly it gets worse. Yeah.

And it's interesting how those sort of relationships can become you can drown in them. Yeah. You know, both parties can drown because you just can't get out of them. And you're constantly involved in conflict. Or the worst is conflict and resolution, conflict and resolution, conflict and resolution. And they get trapped in this high of making up, of fighting and then making up, fighting and making up. And meanwhile, your life's going. Yeah. You're losing days.

Oh, yeah, you're fucked. Because time is something you're just not going to get back, ever. You know, regardless how rich you are. I went to a seminar by a lady called Dolores Ascoff-Nowiski, who's part of the thing called the Servants of Light, which is an esoterical belief school. Servants of Light? Yeah.

I hate it already. I know, I know. It's an esoterical thing. It's nothing to do with me. I didn't name it that. Don't blame me. Thank God you didn't. But some of the things that she said,

some of the things in the seminar she said are very relevant. She was talking about, tell a story about time, saying that when she was in, she lived in Jersey, which is just at the top of England. And when in 1940-something or other, the Germans were coming to invade,

and she had to evacuate. So her dad said, well, look, you know, you're not going to, I'm not going to be able to buy you anything for your birthday. We're going to have to use all the money to evacuate because he's going to go and live in Heswall, which is near me in Liverpool. And he said, well, what I'll do is I'll give you a book with paper and I'll give you time.

So every time you write a cheque, you want to be with me in that time. And he honoured that time all every time you write a check you write that you want to be with me in that time and he honored that time all the time so let me think about how important time is we just don't get a lot of it you know i'm 45 now i was 21 yesterday you know in my eyes you know my mum died in um when was it uh february no august last year boom you know your mum's there all of a sudden they're gone it's very important what you do with your time. I think anyway. It's everything.

Yeah, 100%. It's also very difficult to stop and take account of what's going on in your life and try to figure out whether or not it's serving you to the best of its ability. If time is serving you or if you are serving your own life, best of its ability if time is serving you or if you are serving your own life if you're your focus and what you're doing your actions are serving your own existence the best of your ability or whether or not you're trapped in momentum yeah because that's often the case of people being trapped in momentum could rob you of your life and you won't even realize until it's too late it ruts isn't it and then you're that 60 year old guy on the hill yeah looking

down at the guy's bullying you're looking out the window with your blanket in red going bastard can i go again no you can't there's no there's no second throw of the dice as do you know no yeah it's just the way it is but it's also really hard to figure out if you're trapped in an environment where the people around you haven't figured it out and they're stuck in some patterns maybe alcoholism and cigarettes and all the bullshit that's involved with whatever they've got going on their life crime or drama or whatever the fuck it is it's environment as well it's the environment that you're in sure in the patterns that you develop that's really hard for people to break out of the patterns that they grew up in

yeah it is it is but it's part and parcel of the job that I do. You can't say any more part and parcel. Did I say that loads of times? I did a podcast the other week and I kept saying erm all the time. That was really dumb. Like is one that drives me crazy. If I catch myself saying like,

if you like, I don't know, there's maybe a way to shut the fuck up You know if I catch if I catch myself over liking or overing you knowing you know, there's like, you know It's like the worst is you know, I'm saying like that's a rapper thing. Yeah You don't get rappers Screwed up proper ones Over there. Do we dare have proper rappers, though, do we? Scroobius Pip. We don't have proper ones. You got Scroobius Pip over there. Do we?

How dare you? Please, I'll in touch I am with hip hop. You should get in touch. I remember Dougie Fresh. Oh, my goodness. Dougie Fresh. I remember Dougie Fresh, and that's it. What about Biggie?

Roxanne. I remember Roxanne. What about Biggie? Oh, Biggie was good. Come on, son. Good. He was good. Good?

Well, you know. The greatest? All right, the greatest, then. Without a doubt the best the best that ever did it it was indeed wasn't he he's the right there what did he sing what did he say how dare you biggie biggie can't you see sometimes they hypnotize me i just listen to classical music don't don't do kicking the door, wave in the 4-4. All you heard was Papa don't hit me no more.

You've missed your way. You think I should have been a rapper? I think you should. I think you're a shitty mind coach if you really believe that. Maybe. Maybe we should swap. Have you ever told someone that they should be doing something different? Have you ever told someone, hey man, you need to fucking quit your job and become a rock and roll star or anything um no no no um i've told people they shouldn't fight really yeah because they're not good at it or because they take too much damage because the coach is a shit oh okay we know that you've seen

seen fucking why oh i thought about only had one fight and and I'm fighting B-class. In B-class in England, you can knee to the head. Oh, I'm fighting B-class. I'm like, it's not the best idea in the world. You say it nicely. So you told them they shouldn't fight because their coaches were shit. No, not coaches. Yeah, just, it's a risk. You know, it's an early, early risk, and you know, it's...

Well, why would you tell them that instead of telling them to get a better coach? Yeah, you do you do? Invertently he just pushed him in the right direction So then some people just I don't know some people shouldn't fight and never really get it put it together Well, you did what I do for the UFC for its show time for many other kickboxing Fights and when you do that you do see people that kind of don't have a chance yeah you see you see a bunch of issues yeah you know like whatever it is they're just they're they're so far off where they need to be yeah you're like it's car crash isn't it it's car crash tv sometimes yeah um it is it's car crash TV but like it's

it's just part of what they do you did it again you part I just did it again son of a bitch sorry but like mismatches trouble me more than almost anything and it's one of the things that I really like about MMA as opposed to boxing is boxing guys will get tune-up fight what's what's that catch weight thing about I don't get the catch weight thing. Catch weight for MMA, it's usually because someone got a last minute fight or short notice fight and they don't want to cut all the weight. Say if a guy fights at 155 like a Glacian T-Bow, he fights at 155 but he really walks

around about 185 and he cuts a lot of fucking weight. So he has a process to cut that weight. It's pretty it's pretty scientific they got to kind of stay with that process and if they don't like Benson Henderson when he fought Brendan Thatch, Benson Henderson former UFC lightweight champion took a fight at 170 because it was a short notice fight stepped in and fought at 170 and the reason why he fought at 170 is because like this way he wouldn't have to cut the weight and he really wouldn't be able this way he wouldn't have to cut the weight and he really wouldn't be able to take a short notice fight at 155. It's just too hard to lose the weight.

They have to do it over a long period of time. Otherwise, they're significantly weakened. They get down to a certain 10, 15 pounds away and then they dehydrate themselves down. I would get why when Cotto fought Daniel Gil weeks ago yes why they made Daniel Gil way lighter yet Cotto's got the middleweight title 160 I didn't get that I don't know what they agreed to yeah they agreed to it was 154 right something like that yeah I didn't get it yeah I understand it strategy and sometimes it's a business. But when was the days where that's what you weigh?

That's what he weighs. He's the champion at that. What did Gil weigh? Is he walking around a lighter weight? Is he a lighter guy? No, he is a middleweight. Right. I don't know if he's a big middleweight. Well, maybe Cotto's thinking about fighting Floyd.

And so he's working on fighting lighter and being lighter guys. Yeah, but still, he's... That's the big payday, right? Indeed, but he's like 160. Yeah, I mean, he is the champ at 160. And also there's the Golovkin fight, which is 160. He might be next in line for Golovkin. Have they decided?

Is it going to be Cotto versus Canelo? I think the big fight... Do you think that Cotto and Mayweather will sell? I don't think so. No? But I think Canelo and Cotto is. Canelo and Cotto is a big fight. It's Puerto Rican versus Mexican.

It's always big, isn't it? They don't like each other for some strange reason. They don't. So that would be good. They speak the same language. I don't get it. Yeah, they do. I don't know.

Who do you think would win? Canelo or Cotto? It's hard to tell. I don't get it. Yeah, they do. I don't know. Who do you think it went? It's hard to tell Koto certainly has taken more beatings, you know So I think Canelo's just got more weapons. Yeah. Well, he hits a lot harder. He's a scary fuck areas, you know You know the margarito fight I think took a lot out of Koto It was a fucked-up fight when you find out his history of loading up his wraps. Yeah, that Judo fight was hard. Yes.

You know, the Mosley fight wasn't easy. No, it wasn't. He's had some real hard fights. Maybe he has. But the Margarito fight was fucked. Yeah. When you find out that he most likely loaded up his gloves with plaster. What does this say?

Cotto Canelo, winner to fight Golovkin. It's supposed to be maybe November right now. They haven't officially booked it. Ooh, I'll see that. Fuck yeah. Cotto Canelo would be a great fighter, a great fight, rather, and the winner fighting Golovkin would be giant.

But nobody wants to fight Golovkin. Because only boxing fans know who Golovkin is. Every Mexican on the planet knows who Canelo is. You know, a lot of Spanish fans and boxing fans know who Canelo is. We see him knock out of Spanish fans and boxing fans know who Canelo is. We see him knock out Rubio with that left hook. He's a motherfucker, dude. He's a motherfucker. He hits very hard.

But really, for me, it highlights my appreciation for Mayweather's technique. I mean, say what you want about him as a human being. He seems to be a less than favorable human being. But god damn, as a boxer, he's magnificent. You can't admire his can't, boy, admire his talent. He's magnificent.

He's magnificent. I mean, he's, he's the best ever, in my opinion. I don't think he's the most exciting ever. I don't think he's the most fan favorite, but it's the art of hitting and not getting hit. Who the fuck is better? You know, like I had this conversation with Max Kellerman about it.

He was like, Sugar Ray Robinson is so much better than him. I'm like, Sugar Ray Robinson lost to Jake LaMotta. You're telling me that Floyd Mayweather would lose to Jake LaMotta? I tell you, you're out of your fucking mind. I don't think Jake LaMotta would lay a glove on him. I think Floyd would be all over the fucking place. He'd be slipping to the left and slipping to the right and popping that jab

and lead right hands and tying him up. I just can't see him staying. It's always going to be the way though, isn't it? If you fought him, he'd be blah, blah, blah. People are always going to have that. They always do that. They always do that. But I just think Sugar Ray took a lot of, he was an amazing fighter.

But it was a different era, different mentality, different style of fighting back then, different knowledge database. People knew more about the effects of fighting now. And sport evolves, doesn't it? Yes. Technique evolves. Always will. And always will, yeah, definitely.

That's one of the most exciting things about MMA today is that you're seeing these guys, like these Jair Rodriguez's, these young kids that are coming up 23 years of age that have so many fucking tools. It's like you compare them to young people coming up 10, 15 years ago. There's no comparison. Yeah an MMA

It's a much larger jump than boxing. We've got on infusion life we've got a couple of kids called Elias polite and Mohammed your Roya to To Moroccans you train a lot of Moroccans. I make they can fight their Moroccan magic. I call it they A lot of tough Moroccans, huh? Mate, they can fight. They're Moroccan magic, I call it. They are just... Badr Hari. Oh, badass.

Badr is such a fucking psycho. I've commented on him loads and loads of times. If that guy could just stay out of jail and stop breaking people's legs and shit. Yeah. You know, he could just behave himself and stop being naughty. Well, it's the reason why he's so good, though, is he's a fucking psycho. It's part of the reason why he's so good. He's mean.

I'm not going to say anything derogatory about him because he might find me. Well, the derogatory things that I'm saying are all positive. The psycho stuff is the reason why he's so fucking good. He's the most exciting kickboxer in the world. But he's so aggressive. Have a look at Giroya and Elias Belaya. You can see them. Kickboxing is kickboxing at a higher level now than it was 20 years ago?

Yeah. Much higher? Yeah. Yeah. I'd say the miles. Jeroia's 19. You know, Elias is, Jeroia's 19. No, Elias is 18.

Jeroia's 18, sorry. And Elias is 19. Only young kids. Wow. But like, they've had 110 fights. That's insane. They fought like, you know, amateur. That's insane. And. But like, they've had 110 fights. That's insane. They fought like, you know,

amateur and, you know, with shin pads on. But you know, honestly, Joe, they're so nice kids. They're so nice.

But getting in them rings and they just fight like, fuck. And then when they get out, they're treats like, hey, look, I had hamburgers and fries.

I'm very happy. And you're like, you know, there are other people like celebrating and getting drunk and all that. They're just, oh look, chips had hamburgers and fries. I'm very happy. And you're like, you know, there are other people like celebrating and getting drunk and all that. They're just, oh, look, chips. Wow, hooray.

Just keep them away from pussy. Yeah, well, yeah. I'm not going to stop about it. That's how it starts. Yeah, it's just like, yeah. That's how it starts, partying. But they are the superb, really, really good kids, you know. Just so fast and sharp and technique and everything.

Well, that's one of the things that perturbs me the most or disturbs me the most about Glory. It's like I see the level, like the Nicky Holtzkins and the high level of fighter. Nicky Holtzkins is going into boxing now, I think. He's doing that as well, right? I don't know if he's doing it as well or he's going into it, but I know he's boxed a few times now. Really? Yeah. So he might become a boxer instead? Maybe. I know he's doing it as well or he's going into it but I know he's boxed a few times

now. Really? So he might become a boxer instead? Maybe. I know he's doing it though and it's not really common for a Dutch fighter to go into boxing. I think Tyron's dabbling with it is he? I think so as well. Holland has not really got many boxers.

Well Tyron fought his last fight because it was recovering from his broken leg that he got from Gokhan Saki. Yeah. Which was devastating. It's really rare, too, that you see a high-level kickboxer break his leg

like that. That was unusual. Yeah. But I remember him saying to me years ago at Showtime in Brussels, he said that he wanted to fight David Hay.

Ah. He said, I want to fight David Hay. I want to do boxing. I want to fight David Hay. And he said do boxing. I want to fight David Hay. And he said that to me. David Hay seems to me to be a really good fighter, but a little too small to beat a guy like Vladimir.

Yeah. Like the Klitschko's. They're just fucking these giant guys. Yeah. He can't really reach them. No. You know? No.

He's fighting, I think Vladimir's next fight will be against Tyron Fury. Tyson Fury from England. Yes. Who's the funniest guy ever. Tyson Fury from England. Yes. Who's the funniest guy ever. His tweets are funny. Yeah, he seems hilarious. Does he have a chance? Do you think he has a chance?

I hope so. You hope so. I don't know. I don't know. What I thought was interesting about Vladimir Klitschko's last fight is that the referee was admonishing him for holding. He was saying he was going to take a point away from him for holding that fucked his whole game up yeah because the whole game was like pop that jab pop that right hand tie you up wrestle you fight

povetkin yes and that was like bop bop jab and grab and push exactly that's his whole game yeah and as soon as that goes away then he's forced to stand with guys and trade and exchange and you know he's been knocked out a few times. Will he do that against Fury? Because Fury's bigger than him. Fury's actually bigger. I hope Fury wins. He's from Manchester. He's from the same area as me. Right, but that's just

nationalism. If you take away that objectively... It's not easy. Objectively, do you think you could beat him? It's not easy. So that's a no. I'll say no. But he could could also he could because vladimir's but you know it was the last person knock him out was it cory sanders no someone knocked him out after cory sanders right what was his name i don't know i remember it four o'clock in the morning for no reason fucking uh black guy american yeah um lamont brewont Brewster. Yes, thank you.

Lamont Brewster. He knocked him out after Corey, right? Yeah. So it was like two knockout losses in a row, wasn't it? Yeah. But they're just on it, aren't they? They're just consummate professionals. Well, that's another Emanuel Stewart success story.

Emanuel Stewart figured out how to get him to box right and probably engineered that whole style that he's developed, too, this just pop and grab style. Well, none of Manuel Stewart's were left hookers, were they? They were all long jab right hands, you know, like Hearns. He wasn't really like big left hookers. What about McCallum? Didn't McCallum fight under Emmanuel?

Mike McCallum, the body snatcher? Maybe. Famous left hook to Donald Curry, left to the body and left upstairs. Maybe. But was he with her instead was he with uh manuel stewart i believe he was a cronk guy yeah i believe mccallum yeah because yeah you're right because there's a video isn't there's a video of um inspiring with mccollum oh with mccollum yeah that's just that is classic that's just this it was so so amazing

to watch it's you know it's art isn isn't it? Yeah. It's real art. It really is an art, but it's also an art with a very short amount of time you could pursue it and a very limited number of times you can get hit. Yeah. You know, and I think. It is a short existence. That's one thing that used to disturb me most about MMA gyms, maybe say 10, 15 years ago. These guys really didn't have, there was, I shouldn't say these guys, some gyms really didn't have the best, most technical striking coaches that had a deep knowledge and understanding of striking.

So these guys would be beating the fuck out of each other. Just like throwing bombs at each other in the gym. You would watch it and they weren't working on technique they weren't working they weren't sparring to get better at the art of hitting and not getting hit yeah they were just wailing on each other yeah and you know that was toughening them up in quotes air quotes and then they would go into the gym and or go into the ring and fight and they were carrying all the damage that they were accumulating in these sparring sessions, and a lot of these guys now are kind of speaking up.

Like Jamie Varner, who's a former WEC champion, top lightweight contender in the UFC, just recently retired, and he's talking about the amount of sparring that he did and how fucked up it was. Also, he was sparring with much larger guys. He was sparring with Ryan Bader who fights at 205 and he's fighting at 55

and Ryan Bader's world class at 205 so he's fighting a guy 50 fucking pounds heavier than him he's sparring him in the gym it's madness it still takes its wear and tear doesn't it there's a kid that just had his debut the last UFC that I I think it was in Brazil was it

I know anyway Darren Till he's from just the same lives on the same road as me lives in Brazil, was it? I know, anyway. Darren Till. He's from just the same, lives on the same road as me. Lives in Brazil now. Darren Till, he's a good man. He's South by. He's a very, very good kid. Watch out for him.

There's a lot of good talent now. This is an amazing time for MMA. I mean, this is such a young and blossoming sport. The level of striking is slowly and steadily getting faster and faster and better and better. It's really an amazing thing to watch. The jiu-jitsu is getting better. Everything's getting better.

There's no comparison whatsoever. I mean, I don't know what the difference between 1993 kickboxing was. I mean, I know there's, if you watch like Andy Hoog or Mike Bernardo, they were very good, but they're probably not as good as Badr Hari, right? But the difference between, say, fighters from UFC 1 and fighters of today, I mean, you're talking about a massive evolution, like generations of evolution, like 1,000 years of growth. It's amazing.

There's no comparison whatsoever. They're all learning very quickly from mistakes or what people have done before. Learning very quickly and also accumulating the techniques from other disciplines because a lot of the guys that started out, they're really only good at one thing. Either they're really good at striking or they're really good at grappling. That was basically it. But you're getting these guys today that are great at everything. And that's just...

It's more complete, isn't it? It's a complete art. It was fragmented, wasn't it? And the first UFC started, it was fragmented with people doing jujitsu. Kicked me off.

Pat Smith, was it? Pat Smith? Yeah. One of the first ones. Yeah, he was devastating. What was his name?

The other one, the Dutch guy. Which guy? Orlando V. Orlando V, yeah, the Thai boxer. I've seen him fight Thai boxing.

I've seen him live twice he was tough just unorthodox and yeah he was dangerous same trainer as uh ramon decker oh yeah colham is with glory now he's the matchmaker for glory he he trained him yeah yeah he was uh an interesting guy early on in the beginning very very good uh tie boxer but a good example of a guy who didn't know how to grapple. And he would get taken down to the ground and just smashed. Yeah, and he got beat by a Dutch kid, wasn't it? Like the elbow, wasn't it? Yeah.

God damn it. What was his name? Pardew or something? Remco Pardew. That was it, yeah. Yeah, Remco got him in a headlock and took him to the ground and just blasted his brains out with elbows. I mean, he elbowed him like four or five times while I was unconscious. Pat Smith levered that ninja guy.

I had that on video. I used to watch it over and missed to make me laugh. That was an important fight for people to realize that ninjitsu is bullshit. A lot of people really believed they were going to... Shuriken stars. Do karate chops on people. Yeah. The level in comparison...

Well, that's also one of the reasons why performance enhancing drugs are so prevalent in mmas because there's so many different things you have to work on like if you're a boxer okay what do you have to do well if you do your road work and then you're gonna do your boxing work you know you do your sparring or your pad work i mean that's what you do you spar x amount of days per week the other days you're you're hitting pads and work in the bag doing your combinations but you're only days per week. The other days you're hitting pads and working the bag, doing your combinations. But you're only working on one skill. In MMA, you're not even just working on boxing when it comes to striking.

You've got to train elbows. You've got to train kicks. You've got to train knees. You've got to train a different stance because you're worried about being taken down. So you have to work on your sprawl. You have to work on your takedown defense, underhooks, whizzers, step away from the cage, how to get back up. Then you have to work on your sprawl you have to work on your takedown defense underhooks wizards step away from the cage how to get back up then you have to work on your jiu-jitsu you have to work on sweeps you have to work on actual submissions and you have to figure out like what what how much can i do like yeah and you have to get fit as well exactly we see a guy like cain velasquez you never see that guy attempt a submission never attempted a submission in all

of his ufc fights because it's only so much shit you can do. So he takes guys down, he just beats them up, you know, instead of trying to like, you know, learn all the chokes and all the, I mean, I'm sure he probably knows them, but applying them in an actual fight situation, it's almost like there's too much to learn. Yeah, that's, when I went to, went into UFC when Ross Pearson fought Cole Miller, then I realized how dangerous these guys are. You know, I thought, shit, they can just kick, they can get you on the floor and break your neck. You know, and that, tapping out, is don't kill me. Yes.

Basically, don't break my arm, don't break my leg, don't kill me. Yeah. It's very, it's reality isn't it it's real it's real combat isn't it it certainly is yeah and that's one of the reasons why mma has become so popular is because it's so difficult to go from that to like floyd mayweather versus pacquiao where it's like not much happens there's like a lot of move which I loved I loved that fight But the reality of the variables Like the different variables that exist in MMA where a guy can take you down I can kick your legs I can do so many different things to you

You can't just stand in front of them and shoulder roll and box and then clinch It's just so much more going on the clinch is just the beginning They're gonna press you up against the cage and to pull your ankles out from under you They're gonna mount you elbow you the face gonna cut They're going to pull your ankles out from under you. They're going to mount you, elbow you to the face, going to cut you open. There's going to be a lot going on. It's not nearly as simple to defend yourself as it is in a boxing ring.

It's true because, I mean, it's just like looking at them, they deserve the belt. To get that belt, the UFC belt, they must deserve it because there's stuff they have to go through. To get there, to get where they get there to you know to get where they want to get to get the one to get is ridiculous well they're just to beat the murderers row yeah that you have to go through to get to any shot at a title it's like the guys you have to go through today anybody that's fighting for a title today like man you got to earn that

there's there's a goddamn massive group of contenders in every weight class that are dangerous that's why you got off the right mindset yeah you've got off the right mindset do you um anticipate that this mental training thing is going to be a part of every fighter's camp in the future. I think it should be. You think it should be? I think it should be, yeah. I think it should be.

Because you can get, you know, they can be in shape, they can, you know, the strength and conditioning, the right diet, and then if their ads are not right, their body doesn't perform. Now, what about applying that to kids? What about applying that to kids in school? Not fighters, just people in school. I I mean especially in high school or in college where you're about to go out into the world and so much of your success or failure is predicated on your attitude your mindset and how your how your brain is is organized and

information yeah yeah I think I think a lot of it is just, it's not really, it should be, there's so much stuff that you can do that can help people learn and take in information differently than just the cliche, read that, that's what you've got to do. You know what I mean? That's why it's so interesting because there's so so many different types of people doing ways of thinking you know like we did earlier we did the hackle i would remember why we you wanted to explain what that is how can i always um a slight self-induced all hypnosis is self-induced how can i always say self-induced hypnosis thing where you you basically you find a spot on the wall that's higher than your eyeline so you imagine that you're looking through your middle of your eyebrows and what you do is you focus on a spot on the wall um and you just allow yourself to just imagine that you can

see all the way to the left and all the way to the right you can imagine that you can see really high above yourself and below yourself and then you can imagine that you can see really high above yourself and below yourself. And then you can imagine that you can see 360 degrees. And what it does, it opens your periphery, opens your peripheral vision. So it gives you a slight hypnotic state and a slight, well, a more feeling of wellness in a way, you know, a relaxing feeling. And what we did was you were telling me to concentrate on that spot and then visualize magnets. Yeah, that was different. What we did was we did hackle out first to kind of lead you into a hypnotic state. To get you to, because, you know, you don't go, you see these things on these rapid inductions,

and I went on a course of rapid inductions where... What is that? Rapid inductions, they call these rapid inductions, and I went on a course of rapid inductions where... What is that? Rapid inductions, they call it snap inductions. What they do is it's like you put... It's like a shock. So you shock the cysts, you shock them, and then you go sleep or whatever, and it puts them under very quickly. You can see it on YouTube and all sorts.

So I can do them. They're very showy techniques as well um but I don't really dig them now how does it work the shock induction you're saying sleep because your mind needs information your mind needs your unconscious needs information so you can like there's one where you shake hands with someone so when they go to shake your hand that your hand you break the pattern and make them look at their own hand and then you say look at me look at that focus on that it's a confusion technique and then you say just focus on your hand and then push out a hand together

and head sleep and they go under just like that yes sir why why do they go under why don't they go what the you doing my hand man well there's always that possibility hence me not do what i've seen it done i have done it um with people but it's all i've done it when i've been in therapy with the client already because i'm talking hypnotic language and and do various things and stuff and just maneuver them into that state so i don't really you see people walking up on the street and these street hypnosis and all that which is street hypnosis yeah yeah there's a few guys that do street you know she's a very good vince lynch he's very good um did he do it like as a show he was on television he was doing it in the street in vegas he was making people's hands stick to walls and what really yeah i don't see that it's good and it's it's have you never

seen it no oh yeah they do it yeah it's street hypnosis I've seen street magic it's not street hypnosis huh yeah so they make people forget their names or you know count remove the number four so they go one two three five six seven eight nine huh eleven but it's it's fun to watch, but I not, doesn't. Well, that doesn't interest you because what you're trying to do is improve people or help them improve their lives. Yeah, not, oh, he looks stupid. Well, when I was a kid, when I was first starting out doing stand-up,

there was a guy in Rhode Island named Frank Santos, and he was an R-rated hypnotist. And up until that point, I thought hypnosis was bullshit Until I saw this guy over and over again many many many many many times yet a night Once a week at stitches comedy club in Boston So I saw him Dozens and dozens of times and he would have hypnotized giant and he knew when people were under and when they were bullshitting He would get guys who would look at him and you go no you're not this is not working

You're faking it come on, and he would take them off the stage He knew when people were under he knew when they weren't but he could get a whole group of people Maybe like bring ten people on stage and by the time he's done hypnotized them six or seven of them would be Totally under and he'd have them doing all kinds of ridiculous things like they thought they were having sex they'd come in their pants Like like really kinds of ridiculous things like they thought they were having sex they'd come in their pants like like brilliant amazing i mean i know for you you're thinking like this isn't helping anyone what he wasn't trying to do that he was trying to put on a show it was you know people paid to see it it was yeah and if people pay to see it and they want to go on stage free will no problem um i've done it before we part and parcel of when we were... Part and parcel. I said it again.

Son of a bitch. It's that coffee. It is what it is. Blame the coffee. Blame the coffee. Well, anyway, sorry. Don't worry about it. Sorry about that, viewers.

I don't dig that. It just doesn't do anything for me. But how are they doing that? Because it's... They... If you go to a hypnotherapist and they say, you can't hypnotize me, then fuck off. What did you come for? Right.

You know, what's the point? You know, you got a pizza to buy a pizza. You know, you've got to come to the hypnotherapist. You come to get hypnotized, you know. So you half go along with it anyway, you know. And it helps if the client's got an issue, they want to change, then they're more likely to change if they want to change with you you know um but the the people that do on the stage they just they want it to happen to them they don't mind looking daft so that's cool but what i did with you is we did the magnet as well which was um just

is we did the magnet as well which was just just a stud way because we did the peripheral vision then we just imagine that there was a magnet that could take negative energy from your body and what that does is you use your own imagination to take the negative energy out you do move it's a weird stuff but what is happening there really because obviously there's no magnet and your mind thinking that negative energy is being pulled out of your body, is that just an adjustment of your attitude or an adjustment of your perceptions? Who knows? Who knows?

Who knows? But all I know is it works very, very well, and it's relaxing. And is that related at all to what Frank Santos used to do by getting an entire group of people to think that they were doing wacky shit in front of an audience? Because it's, yeah, it's the installation of what? It's the installation that's different.

You know, there was no magnet, as you said, they're not having sex. Right. It's an installation. Right, but I didn't really think that there was a magnet. You've got to be game, haven't you? I know, of course,

but they don't, they don't, they go on there for that experience, don't they't they go on there for that experience don't write they go for that space but you know it's irrespective whether you believe there's a magnet or not it's the end result if you feel more relaxed right it's almost like a placebo effect indeed right yeah so the placebo effect or the mind perceiving this change and then adjusting your attitude accordingly yeah that that's what it is it's about just um redirection of thought redirection of focus but that was different than the hypnosis part because the hypnosis part when you hypnotize me like i was definitely

hypnotized like i definitely could i could listen to your voice and i knew that i was hearing your voice but i was in this weird sort of dream state Yeah, I was aware of it, but not aware of it. Yeah, like if you took my pants off we'd have a problem Yeah, I would be I would have woke up and fuck this guy trying to pull but you know I'm saying I was trying to pull you I wasn't But I wasn't I wasn't you know, it's a weird state because you're not you you're not Totally there, but you're kind of there. Yeah.

Is that a good way of describing it? Yeah. Yeah. You're still there. You're not going to do anything that's against your values anyway, really. You're not going to do anything. Well, we wouldn't anyway because I'm not like that. I'm not like that as a hypnotherapist or as a mind coach.

And what we did with you is we got you to focus on your thumb, that thumb. So we didn't say your thumb, that thumb. So you disassociate yourself. Instead of saying your thumb, we said that thumb. We focused on that thumb. And then you just get your focus on that. And then there was a structure of like as you want to free yourself for it's good to do that. One, two, three, four.

You know, so see see just like counting down as well no do you are you know but using numbers you know right so it's a cause a sort of you you're focusing on that if you're focusing on that then your unconscious mind so you're focusing on that and i'm talking to you with language that that your unconscious mind recognizes to be relaxing are you you aware at all, rather, of the concept of a Manchurian candidate? Yeah. What do you think about that?

Have you ever watched Derren Brown? Derren Brown, a hypnotist, right? Derren Brown, yeah, he's a hypnotist. He's an entertainer. He's a magician as well. He's fantastic. Yeah. And he did one called The Experiments.

I think you can watch them on YouTube. And he did one where the experiments i think you can watch them on youtube and he did one where they shot stephen fry stephen fry's like a english uh comedian guy and he's very posh very very very intelligent guy member of mentor but super smart and they um he got this certain guy they did a lot of elimination techniques you know to see he was most susceptible and they use a certain guy to go and shoot Stephen Fry you know not with a real gun obviously but just whether I don't know I don't know it's interesting I don't know there's a case where I watched when he assassinated someone and he said definitely I was under hypnosis. Everybody's just saying that while he's in prison. So do you think it's possible?

You would know, right? Probably more than 99% of the people on the planet. I think if it's against your deep level value, you won't do it. But what if you're fairly shady but innocent? Oh, it's darkness darkness that's very dark right i mean if you find a guy who's not maybe never killed anybody but maybe he's done a few fucked up things and you can talk that guy into doing something like that through hypnosis yeah possibly maybe because you're you're essentially steering someone towards a crime that they ordinarily would have avoided well did you see the it's again on youtube uh an italian

uh hypnotist and took money off the cashier she got just took money out of the register no yeah they've done that and derren brown played it on television no he did it it was captured on cctv oh so he's a thief yes and there was there was one where derren brown played it on television no he did it it was captured on cctv oh so he's a thief yes and there was there was one where derren brown paid with paper so what he did is he got gets paper which is the same as you know like dollar bills just blank paper and there's a confusion technique so he said uh don't quote me on this on the script but he said um i've just moved into the town or i just got off the train and i don't know whether to go that way or that way because my friend said you have to get the terrain but

i don't want to go that way or that way or that way but you know where the station is but he said get the train says take it it's fine and then when he's when he's he said he said we'll just take it it's fine so that confuses the people say that way or that way so it's mixed directing your thoughts so he's moving his hands everywhere she's thinking what's this guy on about then he's saying take it It's fine. Mm-hmm. So when he's giving the money, he's like look He said I'm gonna buy that and he just gives them paper and that that's still Confused not for long because they soon come around go fuck you do it, but he confuses them to saying take it It's fine. Take it. It's fine. So these

I've worked at a Like an ice cream place when I was a kid. They serve ice cream and hamburgers. It was a place called Newport Creamery. And I remember they had someone came in that they called a flim-flam artist. Right. Where someone would come in and they would give you $20 and they'd say, can you give me a 10, a 5, and 5 ones?

And then they would say, okay. Okay, actually, can you give me a 10, 5, ones, and then they would say, okay, actually, can you give me a 10, 5, 5 ones, and 4 quarters? No, you know what? Give me two 10s, and then they would start two 10s, a 5, and 4 quarters. And then all of a sudden, you'd have more than $20 that you'd be giving them. And the manager closed the register. They went, hold on a second. What is going on here?

And they shut the register, and they had like this sort of weird eye-to-eye moment with this guy who was trying to hustle this kid that was working the cash register. It was really fascinating. It was like a guy who was a con man. And I remember I was near it. I wasn't involved in it. I wasn't working on the cash register but I was close to it forget what I was doing but I remember watching this going what's going what is something happening here and then they had like a little meeting they explained

when you're working the cash register you have to be careful people that start asking you for weird things asking you to you know because they start twisting your brain and confusing you and your memory gets all fucked up and you're trying to memorize what they're asking for before you know because they start twisting your brain and confusing you and your memory gets all fucked up and you're trying to memorize what they're asking for and before you know it you've given someone 30 for 20 yeah i had someone did that i worked at a health club quite a few years ago and um the guy came in and he went it's franken who was the owner i said no he said i've brought his chain for his wife. I mentioned his wife's name. It's 20 quid.

So I went, all right, give him 20 quid. That was it. And when he walked out, and then Frank come by, and I said, you know, I've paid for that, the repair of that, you know, bracelet. And what he'd done is he'd come in, he'd talk to someone at the back, who owns, who works, who's the manager of Frank?

Where's your other friends? I'm sure I know Frank. What's his wife's name whatever her name was and then muppet they said muppet at the reception hey okay here is the money anything else you know it was done to me so he gave you like a shitty chain yeah yeah but i just went and you gave him 20 you know that's yeah it's that's a weird hustle that hustle of trying to confuse people. But there must be patterns that they try to tap into in the way people recognize money or the way people count things, that they try to disrupt and cause confusion. Yeah, numbers, words, especially words can confuse people and send them off guard. We did a thing when we did the masters with neuro-linguistic programming,

we did a thing called quantum linguistics, which is really interesting. It's really cool. It makes you laugh. It just, it just makes, it doesn't make no sense. And one of the best language patterns I was saying,

I always, when I was, when I was younger, I was always self-sabotaging. I said, I always self-sabotage. And a guy called Chris Bannocks, who I did my Masters with, and I said, imagine there's a wasp nest and I've got a stick.

Don't go near it because you'll get stung. But because I was young, I always thought, fuck it anyway, I'll get stung and just see what happens. I'll fight these wasps stupid. You're younger, you daft, aren't you? And he said, what wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it? So when he said, what wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it? So when he said, what wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it? Right.

And I was like, what? And it doesn't make sense. No. But it sends your mind in a, especially when you're in that sort of that, you know. Right. What wouldn't happen if you pretended not to do it? So if you pretend not to do it, but still do it. So if you're pretending not to do it, you're doing it. So what wouldn but still do it. So if you're pretending not to do it,

you're doing it. So what wouldn't happen? Well, you wouldn't get stung. What wouldn't happen is you wouldn't get stung. Yeah, but what wouldn't happen is you pretended not to do it. That's the sort of stone thing

in it. It's like, what wouldn't happen? I'd be like, you need to learn how to talk better, motherfucker. You're talking crazy. But it's like,

in that situation where it's not like dropped on you, you don't knock on the top on the shoulder and say, hey, we'll never pretend to do it. In the cliché therapy thing and the paratherapy situation, when it's glided in with language, it works so smoothly. Do you pay attention at all to cults?

Do you pay attention at all? Because I'm fascinated by people's ability to control other people's minds and behavior. And I've always wondered whether or not, like when you see like, have you seen the Scientology documentary, Going Clear? I've started watching it. Oh.

I've started watching it. Oh, it's fucking fascinating, man. I've watched it three times. I can't look away. I might watch it again. Yeah. I'll have to watch it. It's fucking crazy. I. I've watched it three times. I can't look away. I might watch it again. Yeah. I'll have to watch it. It's fucking crazy.

I'll have to watch it. Well, I had experience. I've known several people that were Scientologists, but one of them was one of my neighbors. And, you know, he and I had some weird exchange about his wife was going clear, so he needed $50,000. I was like, what? 50 fucking grand. Like, whoa whoa what's going on he was like they're gonna do some ceremony and his wife will no longer be influenced by

outside pressure or you know outside thoughts or any anybody's criticisms or negativity should no longer they would no longer affect her and they needed 50 grand for that and i was like what the fuck but he fucking looking at his eye he was telling me like oranges have vitamin c in them you know like for him it was like pretty straightforward obviously and i've always been fascinated like what is what the fuck is going on my friend my friend uh named adan piers he was into scientology i don't know where he still is i don't think he is but he went to flag which Flag, which is the base where the Scientologists have the main place, what they have. And Tom Cruise's sister

is named Aiden. Sorry. Tom Cruise's sister's child is named Aiden after him. Whoa. So he was into it. I went to it a couple of times years and years ago and it creeped me out a bit. But I'm not – I don't know if it – whatever floats your boat, if it's not causing you any – but I haven't seen that going clear, so I will do. So I don't know about anything like that. I say I agree with that as well.

If it's not hurting you and what do I give a fuck, I agree with that as well. Until you start watching these documentaries, you go, well, clearly it's hurting some people. It's definitely hurting people. It's breaking up families. It's really fucked up the way they attack some people that dissent or that leave. If the people that are on the show,

the documentary, if they're telling the truth, and that's debatable. Only they know and the people that they're talking about know. There's some mind control going on there yeah there's some there's some absolute definite mind control going on there and i wonder is that related in any way to hypnosis the the ability that these people have to manipulate these folks into look at hitler's speech mein kampf right look what hitler You know, so people maybe are searching for something to be influenced. Do you know what I mean? So it's always going to be a lot easier,

you know? So it's going to be, there's always going to be susceptible people. There is always going to be susceptible people. But is cult, like when you see like a Jim Jones speech or, you know, when someone is giving some sort of a cultish speech, is that similar in some ways to hypnosis? It has to resonate, doesn't it? Right. It has to resonate with the person, with the people. I won't say it's hypnosis, but I'll just say it has to resonate with what they believe in and, you know, what they float the boat, I guess. You know what I mean? They can latch on to. It's like cold reading, isn't it? You know, I guess. You know what I mean?

They can latch on to. It's like cold reading, isn't it? Like what? Cold reading. Cold reading. Yeah. What's that? Psychics.

Oh, okay. You say stuff like... Cold reading and acting, by the way? No, no. Cold reading's a different thing. It means you get a script. Yeah, no, it's different. I was trying to think.

What is he talking about? No, it's different. Cold reading's different. I went to Malta a couple of years ago. Was it Malta? No, it was it's different. Because I was trying to think, what is he talking about? No, it's different. Cold reading's different. I went to Malta a couple of years ago. Was it Malta? No, it was Rhodes in Greece. Anyway, I digress. And we went over and we got stung by the timeshare people.

Anyway, the woman was going on and on to me. And she said, what do you do in England? I said, I'm a psychic. She went, really? I went, yeah, I'm a psychic. She went, oh, right. I said, you had an accident near water, a scare maybe, before you was 10. I'm getting 10 for some reason. Before you was 10. And she went, yeah, yeah, you're

right. You're right. Yeah, you did. You've got a scar on one of your knees. Yeah, I've got a scar on my left knee. I thought, yeah, I thought you did. Do you know what I mean? And, you know, you've been really, you've been, you've had some, you know, you've had some limelight, but you don't mind other people, and you've had a lot of close friends. You've got a lot of friends, but you've only got a certain amount of close ones. So everyone resonates with that, like horoscopes. Everyone sort of, like, clings onto that.

And, you know, there's all sorts of, you know, psychics and people say, oh, wow, they knew this. Fuck, that stuff drives me crazy. Yeah. I have a friend who believes that shit. He went to somebody, he's like, man, they told me all about my grandmother. I'm like, bitch, don't you know about your grandmother? They're telling you some shit you already know? What kind of psychic is that?

That doesn't make any sense. And I never understood it until we had this guy. Do you know who Banachek is? Yes. I had Banachek on the sci-fi show that I did, Joe Rogan Questions Everything. He was brilliant and stunning and scary. Scary how good he is at it, but also super honest. He's like, I'll tell you right now, I am not a psychic.

I don't have any psychic ability at all. This is all bullshit. And I hate when people steal from people and rob them. What I'm doing is entertainment entertainment and it's a show. And I have very specific techniques that I use to achieve this. Yeah, that's why I don't... I can't think of anything else. That's why I don't fuck around when I do hypnosis. Oh, do this.

Right. No. No. That's just not the game, is it? He wasn't doing hypnosis. He was just pretending to be able to read your mind and be able to put it. But he was really, really clear about it, saying these are just techniques. I am not really seeing anything that other people can't see.

I don't have any special ability. But the people that do claim that, like, I don't know how it is in England, but in California in particular, you'll drive down the street and you'll see four or five of these fucking psychic readings. I've seen them. Chiropractors and that. There's loads of chiropractors as well.

There's loads in America. Is chiropractic bullshit? Is that what you're saying? No, I'm not saying it is. There's loads of chiropractors. See that tarot, you're driving down the street and chiropractors,

you don't see that many in England. A lot of people think chiropractors are bullshit too. It's like a lot of reputable people think it's bullshit. They're just moving your neck around. Click, click, and I'm killed. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, but it costs a lot of money, too. You go 150 bucks and they're just... Twisted around. Pop in your back. Right. But then some people say there's certain things that chiropractors do that really are beneficial. So who the fuck do you believe? Yeah, the ones i've i've

been to a couple of times they would have been here they've been good i felt all right afterwards well there's this one guy that used to work with a lot of fighters and he was what they call a zone healer and his idea was that he was like sort of tricking your body into healing because he was sort of using the placebo effect telling you that he was healing you by popping your neck or moving your body in a certain way, but he really wasn't doing anything other than shit a normal chiropractor does. Is he still working? I don't know.

Try not to pay attention to that shit. That stuff drives me nuts because it's deception. And whether or not it's effective or not is debatable because deception can be effective, right? Yeah. And isn't that sort of part of what yeah you know what the placebo effect exactly this is what this is what i'm against in in the hypnosis thing really is is what the point was trying to make is i don't fuck around with people right you know they comfort

to you for help they genuinely want your help they genuinely want to get where they want to get to and you can't fuck around with people right it's not fair they pay you and they're looking for you to help them out i buzz off it because then you you achieve something together you know it's good i like that but yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of shit in everything though isn't there there's a lot of there's a lot of crap there's more shocking chefs and good ones you know what i mean and isn't that there was also a lot there's a lot of manipulation and a lot of charlatans and so almost every line of work yeah right yeah but isn't that it's it's sort of it's relative to what we're talking about it's like what is your focus like what are you trying to

achieve what are you trying to achieve as a coach yeah as a coach you're trying to help people and make them better what are you trying to achieve as whatever you're doing as a salesperson? Are you trying to sell people something that's an actual great product, like a really nice car? Like this is a car. If you enjoy cars, you will enjoy this car is great. Or are you selling them a fucking shit box? It's been taped together and it's going to fall apart the moment they get it out of the driveway. You know, what is your ultimate goal? Are you trying to help people people you're trying to have a beneficial mutually agreeable relationship or you're trying to read their palm and get money out of them you're fucking with them or aren't i amazing yeah i'm fucking amazing like i never you know like the success that joe's had uh joe showing

yeah and the success that many of my clients have had, I don't go, it was me. Because it's all about the client. They do it. I like winning, and of course there's some sort of pat on the back for myself by me, but I don't run around and go, aren't I amazing? But is it a pat on the back, or is it just an appreciation for the method? Appreciation of the method, and appreciate, you know, it doesn't stop shocking me how well it works at times, you know.

Well, 99.9% of the time. It's just a shock. Even now, even now that I've been involved in it eight years now, it's just, I don't know, it's just,

I don't know, it bubbles off. You can tell it bubbles off and stop jumping around about it. How many years have you been doing it full time? Full time, eight? No, I'm half off it. You can tell I buzzed off it and stopped jumping around about it. How many years have you been doing it full-time? Full-time, eight? No, I'm half and half.

But training as well, training fighters? I was, and then I was training fighters. I got kind of bored of it. I had to achieve what I wanted to. My fighters had reached a level. I was getting bored, and I wasn't giving them the attention I should do. So I decided to stop that, and then I had a regular job anyway. And then I just started to get mind coaching

and word of mouth. Like you got to know me through word of mouth and then it's just spread from there and it continues to do so. So now that's full time? I still commentate as well. I commentate from Fusion and from Yoko. Muay Thai shows and Smash Muay Thai

as well. It's in England which is good shows and I still do that. You know, I've done GFC and, you know,

different things like that but I still commentate a lot for Yoko and Infusion and Smash Muay Thai and just do that as well. But I just,

I've got a lot of clients from America now. I'm up at stupid o'clock in the morning you know, doing it on Skype but it's great. Yeah, was there an eight hour or ten hour difference between us something like that i buzz off it i genuinely buzz off it i love the i like it well that's great i mean that's really

what life is all about finding something that you really enjoy that you get that buzz off of and pursuing that and if you can make a living you're the same aren't you you can tell you're animated by what you do yeah well i'm just super lucky that I found a bunch of different things that I really enjoyed doing but just this well then how about this I mean the ability or the opportunity rather to have a conversation like this with a guy like you sit down for hours totally uninterrupted it's very rare to get this it's almost like the only way to get these kind of conversations Yeah, is to have this kind of conversation where you know, it's being broadcast because otherwise we'd be checking our phone

We'd be talking you know, do you want a beer? Do you want to do this and that all this fucking guy is annoying and this thing is happening to me And I got a part and parcel all you wouldn't you know, you probably wouldn't do that No, but but you know what I mean? Like this is this the only way you have these intense One-on-one conversations is in a podcast form. Yeah, so in a lot of ways this podcast has been incredibly educational It's been like this like like a almost like a very varied University course on a bunch of different disciplines like I appreciate

He's like, you know, you said about Mike McCollum and the left hook, and I like that. You know, and I went, oh, yeah, I forgot about him. And I like, I'm not egotistical enough to think I know everything. You know, it's, you know, I don't, there's a lot of them. I've seen, like I said, a rapid induction course, and the guy was just like, he was doing this hypnosis gun, and he was going to sleep, and this other guy was going,

oh, fuck off. Right, but isn't that similar like that fucking those bullshit kung fu guys they're like and their students fall to the ground i can do don't you think that's is that hypnosis too what is going on with that it is bullshit right but it's just idiots is it just i don't think what's happening with the students because the pricks the students though they're falling to the ground they're twitching yeah but it's they're justicks. The students, though. They're falling to the ground. They're twitching. Yeah, but they're just daft, aren't they? Are they?

Or are they under the hypnosis power of suggestion? No, I don't think it's nothing to do with it. Yeah, maybe it's a suggestion, but maybe it's just that they're not all there. There is a lot of weird people about, isn't there, Joe? You know that. You're going to say idiots, and you went with weird. I like it.

I kind of switched it in the middle, changed the trajectory of the rocket that would have got me in trouble. That is the problem, right? Like, some people have big noses, and some people are idiots. Some people have got grey hair, and some people haven't. Yeah, it's like the genetics vary. Not everybody could be Einstein. No.

No. And then some people, you go, ha! And they fall to the ground. It'd be good, though, wouldn't it? I've seen some videos of fake Kung Fu, and it's fucking amazing. Like, there's this one dude, and he was teaching this class, and he had this girl, and he was moving her back and forth and back and forth like a comedy. Yeah.

Like it was a comedy, but it was real. And he'd make her dance and shock her and then she would fall to the ground and she was flopping around like a fish.

Have you seen the recent one where that guy gets his student, he's like a big bellied guy with his gi on and then she does this. And he goes, give him an Oscar.

That was a right performance. He just like flops on the deck and his arm flew in the air. That was proper funny. I mean, because I'm here at the moment in America with Jordan Watson, who's like a superstar in Muay Thai, and we was watching it. We was pissing ourselves off and it was funny.

Well, there's a lot of that out there, man. There's a lot of that fake kung fu stuff out there. Less and less now than there was in 1993 when the UFC came along. It's one of the things that the UFC has done that's amazing is eradicate a lot of the bullshit martial arts. There's a lot of fake practitioners out there. And Eddie Bravo has this hilarious story of this fake Kung Fu teacher that he was taking lessons under.

He was a young kid. He didn't know any better. And the guy was going to China to study under his master. And Eddie ran into him at the supermarket when the guy was supposed to be in China. He's like, what the fuck was going to China to study under his master and he ran Eddie ran into him at the supermarket when the guy was supposed to be in China fuck school and they realized this guy doesn't take a kung-fu just make his shit up like hey everything he was doing was just totally made up you know karate chopping people on the top of the head and saying you kill them if you hit him

correctly like but it's that that sort of mcdojo type fake martial arts stuff was really really really prevalent a few decades ago yeah i grew up with drunken master yeah and all them oh yeah all the uh run run shore movies you know golden harvest well those are fun to watch to pretend you know you, you watch an old Jackie Chan movie and he's fucking... All that crazy shit, but... Drunken Master's the one. Yeah. He's beating him up with a tea towel.

Sam Seed. It's funny. It's comedy, though. It seems funny. Yeah, but he's still there. And I tell you, I really like Police Story with Jackie Chan, the first one. That was good. That was wicked, that was. He's mad there. And I tell you, I really like Police Story with Jackie Chan, the first one. That was good. That was wicked, that was.

He's mad, Jackie Chan. But a lot of those movies had people believing that there were people out there that had chi and death touch and you know, when you want, I just, I mean, to bring it back to what you do, do you think there's any of that that's hypnosis? Is there anything that's similar to like what I said Frank Santos used To be able to do um I Don't know is it honestly I don't know devotion that they have towards their sensei or their theirs Yeah, it's bananas aren't they?

Believe what I'm crazy. Yeah, they believe what he says so this like oh, yeah He can do this and but how is that different than a guy who thinks, like, I watched a guy who thought he was having sex with Madonna and he came in his pants because Frank Santos put that in his head and he did that. I watched it. And the guy was like, like, he didn't know. He came in his pants. I mean, this guy wasn't that good of an actor.

He just wasn't. He was embarrassed. He didn't know what to do. And he kind of, like, slunked over and sat in the corner. If he was a ham, he would have spent, it just was, you could tell this guy really believed that. At that particular time where he was in that particular place, yeah, he did believe it.

I mean, you've seen people with needles and they have a needle through the hand and they don't feel the pain. You can do that. There's an interesting one called Pain Paradigm, which I'll talk to you about another time. Ooh, anticipation. Next week, viewers. I mean, just...

There's all sorts of things. Who knows what the mind's capable of? We're only just... I'm only a postman of information, really. I mean, what really can we do? What will you develop with? That's an interesting way to describe it, a postman of information. That's what Keith Mayer, my first teacher, said.

We're just postmen of information. I like that. Yeah. I just, I'm really fascinated by the full spectrum, for lack of a better term of Possibilities of suggestion that you can go from you know fake psychics and fake healers and like My friend Brian and I were at the Comedy Store last night Did you see that were you there when you saw the woman was trying to do the Reiki healing on us? It was hilarious cuz I knew I was going to talk to you today.

And I knew she was full of shit. Or she probably thinks it's real. But she was like, can you feel the energy? I'm like waving. Like she said, put your left hand out because left hands are more sensitive, more susceptible. I'm like, okay. So I have my hand out. And she is like running her hand over the top and the bottom like not touching my hand but

getting close to it like do you feel it do you feel anything and i'm like no i'm trying to be open-minded yeah but i don't feel anything but some people would be like yes i do feel it i think it's what you want to believe and i think my beliefs like like people that are psychics and you go to see these tarot card readers etc etc. If they give people comfort and make people feel better, then, you know, got more power to them. Right, more power to them. You know, if they believe it half the time, if they believe that there is Reiki, I don't know, and then if they believe it and it works and people are happy doing it,

I mean, we might go, but it's, you know. But where's the line drawn? Is the line drawn is the line drawn when you're taking money from them there is piss takers in the world in the piss take piss takers what is you know taking the piss well okay you guys just fucking with some fucking with someone yeah okay taking the piss yeah yeah but but more so than that someone who like is pretending to be healing but they're stealing money from you they're not really healing you yeah well it's like anyone that sells a i don't

know a vitamin that have this right a snake oil snake oil yeah of course a snake i'll take this and you'll definitely change but what about fucking the real placebo effect that's where it gets really weird because like there are some placebos that they have introduced to people and they've told them it's a placebo. Yeah. And then the, but the act of doing something, the act of taking something actually has a more beneficial effect than not doing anything. Yeah. Which is again, the power of the mind, like the placebo effect is a real effect. You give someone something something you tell them

This is medicine This is going to fix whatever ails you and it actually does work on a certain percentage a statistically significant percentage of the Crystals and shit amulets work the same like a lot of Thai people believe in they put a border on and it or even good luck Right a good luck coin. Yeah. I got my lucky quarter. Dumbo, isn't it?

You know, with the feather, lucky feather. Right. You know, when he believes he can fly with the lucky feather, it comes out. All that, you know, the rest. Yeah, I think it's all down to you, isn't it? It's all down to what you put into your intention and what you want to believe for yourself, you know? But isn't it weird that we have these minds that have such amazing potential but there's no fucking real good guidebook that

anybody's handed and you're sort of supposed to figure it out on your own or based on if you're lucky you have parents that have their shit together and they sort of give you a rough outline of how you should live your life or live by example but we're not talking about like goldfish or swans or anything simple we're talking about human beings with complex languages and mathematics and culture and society and laws and and and money and all the weirdness that comes with being a person and good in it yeah it's good though it is that's why it's so exciting well that is so you know yeah six assignment from a bloodline of Merlin and Sherlock yes

Merlin Holmes there you go like real estate but that's I just like that I just I like that I like the mystery I do too like them yeah yeah because you can see you probably think I like that it's interesting and that's what keeps you keeps you going in life, I think. When you find something interesting and you're trying to, you know, it's always better to be interested instead of interesting. Oh, yeah. For sure. I mean, that's one of the things that I appreciate most about being able to do this podcast is that I'm constantly and consistently inspired and curious.

I'm always learning. You can't know everything it is not possible There is too much going on and once you accept that then you're just looking for stuff that you find stimulating Yeah And then find more and more things that you find fascinating and this podcast has given me this really unique opportunity to talk to people like you or You know anybody who has some information that I'm not really aware of. I'm massively honoured to be on air because I'm just from Liverpool.

I'm from Newton. Yeah, I know. But nobody's coming in here and then Joe says so nice things, Ian McCall says nice things, and I get to do seminars and get to meet people, and I love it. I'm just buzzing off it at the moment. Well, that's what life is all about really is finding something like that

that you really enjoy doing and then pursuing it. And then if you can, God, if you can make a living doing that, what a great way to be, you know? Yeah, I like people. I like people. I don't take everyone on as a client because some people just think,

no, no, you best go somewhere else have you had like people that are like shitty or just not appreciative i kind of sussed them out quickly do you try to explain to them why you're not doing this and maybe you give them like some uh yeah i just help for the future yeah i just yeah i just just say well i can't or I'm busy or just the normal stuff you know or depends on what it is, it's not often I'll be honest with you, it's not often that happens but

yeah it does happen, I just kind of deter them you know, there's one guy saying there was one guy recently, he's like yeah everyone in my team thinks I'm rubbish I can't fight, and I can't talk to you now, my wife's in bed, and just like, oh, don't, yeah, all right. You know, just loads of things in its way.

I just thought, no. That's too much work. Like, if you can't, yeah. Too much hassle. No sovereignty. It's too much hassle. Yeah. I like underdogs triumphing.

I like that. Everyone had a gym. I had, you know, people that didn't win fights under all gyms, and they won under me. i like that everyone had a gym i you know people that we didn't win fights on the door jams and they won under me i like that it's it's just good to i don't know just to give them that buzz and you feel good about yourself think yes obviously something that other people didn't like that right yeah the ability to help people and the the satisfaction that comes from other people benefiting from your effort yeah it's a very nice thing yeah i had a lady it's an equestrian lady called donna tainter at the minute she's i forgot where she is somewhere in the states and she's doing really

well it's just a transformation has been incredible and she's you know all her students are so much better her sponsors are like really warming to her She's riding better and stuff like that. It's just moving things out of people's way. It's kicking it out of the way. All right, so if people want to get a hold of you, what is the best way? Your Twitter handle is Vinnie Shorman. What is it? Vinnie Showtime69.

The reason why it's called Showtime, it's not perverted and 69. Showtime is how I used to be a commentator for it. And 69 was the year I was born. Oh, yeah. Nothing perverted there.. Showtime is, I used to be a commentator for it. And 69 was the year I was born. Oh, yeah. Nothing perverted there. That's a problem, right? Isn't it? That number, 69.

Yeah, I'm going to have to change that, I think. Well, it's a lot of great cars, 1969. And it's when they landed on the moon. And you can get me on VinnieShawman.com. And also you can get me on Facebook there's a Facebook or mind coaching page where there's techniques and videos withdrawal techniques and all sorts of stuff

beautiful it was a pleasure I really appreciate this let's do this again sometime how often are you in California? I'll be back very soon because Liam Harrison's fighting Malai Pet and Andy Housen's fighting Romeo Dan's and I'm coming over with them when is that? July the 31st the fight is so I'm coming over with them. When is that? July the 31st, the fight.

So I'll be over before. Where's that taking place? I'm not too sure. It's in California? It's somewhere in Cali, yeah. Really? Okay, maybe I'll go to the fights. I'd like to see that.

That sounds awesome. That'd be great. Beautiful. Thank you, Vinny. Thanks a lot, Joe. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much, Ineches. All right, friends.

We'll be back next week. Lots of great and entertaining guests. Not as entertaining as this motherfucker, but we'll try. See you soon. Thank you.