The Joe Rogan Experience - #716 - Daniele Bolelli

Episode Date: October 31, 2015

Daniele Bolelli is an Italian author, professor, and martial artist. His books include "Create Your Own Religion" and "On the Warrior's Path" and his new podcast is called "History on Fire."

And boom, Daniele Bolelli, my friend. Here we go. Dude, I am loving, rather, I should say, your new podcast, History on Fire, and it's just wonderful to hear your sultry Italian accent waxing poetically on the path. That's because I just never learned to speak English right. But you do speak, it's very confusing to me because you do speak perfect English. You understand it. You're very articulate.

Your choice of words is excellent. Right. But it comes out this way. Like, how come I can do that, but you can't do that? Can you try to talk like me? You know, if you can believe it, I think I do. Half of the time, I'm like, what do you think? What accent? I'm talking in perfect English.

What are you talking about? I have a horrible ear for accent. I just don't hear it. You don't hear it. You know, when I hear my recording, then I go back, I'm like, Jesus Christ, I really speak like that? Oh, fuck, no way. But, you know, when I'm talking right now, I hear my own voice.

I'm like, no, perfect. There's no accent. That is one of the great things about doing a podcast that it forces you to listen to yourself yeah and you can learn a lot about how you sound yep you know you really can you learn a lot about little things you do like like the word like that's that's one thing people say like fucking way too often that's a real problem, that word like. Like, I've tried to shorten it or to eliminate it, but it fucking creeps its way in. Like, you know, man, like, it's like this guy, like it. Some people, and the problem is if I fixate on it, if I fixate on someone saying it, like, then it breaks me.

I had the same thing. I was talking with some guy who was really smart, really brilliant, and kept saying, you know, every four words. And after a while, I could not follow the conversation where he was making great points, too, so I was missing out because every other sec was like, da-da-da-da, you know, it's like, fuck, it's not,

it's going away. It's a tech. It's a speech pattern. It's basically a version of uh, or uh. Uh-huh. Or uh. Yeah. I've always said that's what people do with the word fuck sometimes. It's a use of the word fuck.

This fucking guy with this fucking thing with the fucking. Yeah, it's a filler. Yeah. It's a filler. Yeah. That's why I'm super impressed with people like Sam Harris that talk with no filler. They just. Just that on from.

I don't... My brain doesn't work like that. I'm always scrambling for certain words or trying to... I wonder if I was... My vocabulary was better. Maybe I would be less likely to use fillers, but... I don't know. I think it's like during conversations,

sometimes you need that micro-mental break to just see, okay, where do I want to go with next? But you don't want to leave an awkward pose so you're like throwing something out there just go okay this is where I want to go next yeah and you also don't want someone to like jump in thinking you want them to talk and like you're in the middle of trying to form the sentence if they do jump in then you'll totally lose it so you want to just to let them know. I'm still here.

I'm still working on it. Instead of just going. Yeah, exactly. And that everybody. Italy is painful that way because, you know, normally you give two seconds pause between somebody starting and somebody beginning the next conversation. Italy, there's no pause. Everybody is just there waiting for you to not stop, but slow down so that they can jump in.

And then you see people take a deep breath, kind of like... It's like, Jesus, man. It's like it's a full contact sport, talking to somebody. It's just... Well, the language. Your language is so poetic.

It's a flowing, beautiful language. In fact, it's great for... You know, English language is so poetic. It's a flowing, beautiful language. In fact, it's great for, you know, English language is awesome if you want to rule an empire, right? It's like you tell people, do this, get stuff done. You know, it's very to the point. It's quick. It's to the point. It's great. Italian is great for flowery, oh, sweetheart, look at the beautiful moon out there kind of thing where you just waste you've

said 10 000 words to really say something that could have been said in five but you know it's the vibe that you create that yeah there's a lot of work but it's flowing yeah it's like wine and poetry it's like it's got this sort of whereas american is just like hey all right what's up fuck face it's when i was starting to write in english it was so damn hard for me because i was so used to this long flowy sentence that's like there was this rhythm right very musical and you know any sentence that i would write like that in english i lose half of the readers within three seconds because they're like, too many words. Get to the point. You know, what are you trying to say? And so it's like, and I thought, English sucks.

There's no poetry to it. In reality, there is. You know, there are ways to express yourself beautifully, but it's different. You need to definitely tone down the length of the sentences, cut it a little shorter. And there are ways to do it still in a beautiful way, but it's completely different. What about the attention spans of people in Italy versus the people in America?

Because the Italian attention span seems to be much longer. There is some of that. I don't know if it's still true. I don't know if it's a generational thing or not, because I got there back on vacation, so I don't have the pulse of the situation anymore the way I used to. It may be a generational thing or not, because I got there back on vacation, so I don't have the pulse of the situation anymore the way I used to. It may be a generational thing. It was that way.

Certainly when I was growing up, there was clearly more attention spent. But then again, that was before all the 3,000 things that we used to distract ourselves all the time, where it's like somebody's talking to you, but I'm like, let me send this email. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Good point. But you're doing something else at the same time. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but like a classical Italian meal, like in a restaurant, like you would sit there for hours.

It's not like America where you're in and out in 40 minutes. No, definitely. And yeah, there's much more of this slow pace. And tripping me out the other day um obri marcos gave me a call and within about a minute i was thinking and i i love obri and but the vibe for me was like okay great you know hi hi what's up now what do you want right and then i realized that he wasn't calling because he wanted anything he just wanted to say what's up and chat and i was like i forgot what it's like to be that

way it's nice i like it you know that's a good feeling where you just we are just talking because we like to talk to each other it's not like hey i need something or you know yeah i'm so used to that conversation now that everything is for a reason it's like uh we're trying to get stuff done and uh it was so refreshing i I was feeling, this is beautiful. I love it. I miss it. That's how it should be. It's nice if you can catch someone that's on the same vibe.

But when you're like, hey, man, everything good? What's going on? Yeah, yeah, I'm just getting some shit done. What's going on? What's up? What's up? Nothing. Just called to say hello.

It's like, OK, well, hi. Bye. See you later. Click. Got to go. I'm running an okay, well, hi. Bye. See you later. Click. Gotta go. I'm running an empire. Running the empire of Mike. And I mean, we do have,

I don't know how we got that way, but we do have intense, busy lives. So sometimes that organic, relaxed, let's hang out, let things transpire and play. Half of the time, it's like, okay, it's noon at one. I need to be out of here. This is my fun time.

So it's 12.15, motherfucker, I'm not having fun yet. Make it fun right now because I need to. It's like, you can't do that. You know, you need to. I was listening to this TED Talk on the nature of happiness. And I forget the gentleman who was doing the speaking. But he had developed an app and in the app, uh, it would like hit you with reminders and ask you questions like,

what are you doing right now? Are you enjoying what you're doing right now? Is this what you want to do? And like things along those lines. And then they would gather data and well, so they, they added all their data from all the people that use the app. And one of the things they found was one of the least conducive things to happiness, one of the indicators that people are not happy, is when your mind is wandering. Like you're just sitting around thinking of nothing, just sitting doing nothing. And in those moments, for whatever reason, people just don't feel good. Right. Their mind will wander to the negative things.

But when you're in the moment and you're occupied in something, whether you're creating something or whether you're writing something, whatever you're doing, like those are the moments where people feel fulfilled and happy. No, definitely. And there's something to be said for meditation in that regard of learning to be in the moment when, because, you know, a lot of the times we can be in the moment when we're doing something, but to be in the moment when you're not doing something, just like, let me take a deep breath, let's be here, let's look around, that's not as easy to do as one would think. Yeah, that's why, like, a class,

whether it's a martial arts class or a yoga class, is really good for people, because someone's telling you what to do. Like, okay, now we're going to work on arm bars from the mount, you know, like get to the mount. Okay. Shift your hips to the left, grab the arm, pin it down. And in going through those steps, you're forced to concentrate on that thing. And because it's so intense, you're forced to be in that moment. And that for a lot of people is a real, not just the physical relief of exercise, which is fantastic for the mind, but the relief of focus and concentration alleviates a lot of the bullshit that builds up when the mind is wandering. Big time.

I noticed when I finally had a chance to start rolling again the last month or two it felt so fucking good i was just like oh my god i forgot not only physically as you say how good it feels but in that moment you know if your mind wanders too much the guy's choking you the guys aren't barring you you can't wander you have to be totally present in what you're doing in and it's just such a mental break that i thought i had all these issues when i walk into class and I walk out. I'm like, huh, those problems, you call those problems, that's a joke. Come on, no big deal. Because suddenly you have lightened up.

You got rid of this heavy load that you're carrying. And there's nothing like it, you know, something that puts you in the moment, but also your body. Puts your body, your mind, everything. The gift of perspective. Yeah. Yeah. And some people get it from running you know i know i know some people they just love or like running hills especially you know because

it's just so difficult yeah and then when when you reach the top of that hill you have a milestone you know like you hit that milestone you get to that hill and just whatever it is that effort of doing that which is very intense and very difficult, just – and when it's over, just everything else seems like relaxed. Big time. Even weights. Yeah. Weights feel awesome.

Sure. Anything. Anything. Just do something that you have to concentrate on. You know, like if you're lifting something heavy, like if you're trying to bench press or squat or something like that, like while you're doing that, that is what you're concentrating on. And then amazing, though, that that's what the mind needs sometimes. Just one primary singular thing to focus on and to focus on it intensely.

And it's almost cleansing in a way. Forces the pipes free. Yeah, it's kind of like when you're having sex for too long and then you do it and suddenly everything in your brain switches it's like all this shit that i thought i had on me all this tension all this stuff that i thought were real problems you just haven't had sex for too many days oh haven't had sex for a long time yeah i thought you were saying you've had sex for too long i was like oh no no there is no such a thing he's doing some sessions some session work marathon yeah that could fuck people up man i mean i i to this day think that

that is especially for men the primary reason why a lot of men exhibit like really pathetic behavior because they are trying so hard to get women to like them and nothing is working and so they have fallen into this trap of becoming this like she-male thing this this like super feminist sort of always identifying with women's issues and trying to get women on your side. It doesn't fucking work. Dave Rubin, a guy who was on the podcast the other day, he, by the way, great guy, great podcast, had a great time with him, but he tweeted something the other day,

and it was a billboard that some poor fool had put up, and it said, Dear women, on behalf of all men, I'm sorry. Oh, Jesus. Right. The PS to that would be i'm really trying to get laid really trying please so hard me with that just someone touch my dick yeah please that would have been more honest you just put that on the billboard it's like with the number at the end it's like oh poor guy i get it you know yeah i mean it's like not that there's anything wrong with siding with women if you agree that they've been fucked over or looking out for them or, you know, sympathizing or empathizing.

That's not the point. It's just the behavior. It's also an anti-masculine behavior, an anti-male behavior. Masculine behavior and anti-male behavior. Maybe it's because they identify those characteristics with bullies or with people that were mean to them or people that caused them pain or frustration. But it's also like this – it's traitorous. You know what I mean? It's like you're a gender traitor like in some ways and to me there's that bullshit dichotomy there where you either have the

tough strong macho asshole who's also kind of doesn't care about anybody's feelings and is by your strong that's the good side or you have the sweet mellow sensitive but if you say buddha you hide in a corner and and it's like both models suck neither one is a desirable way to be you know and the problem is that in trying to get rid of the asshole male side, people have also gotten rid of the good stuff about being a man, about the strength, the determination, the stereotypical masculine quality. And it's like, that's not what we're trying to get rid of. That's the good stuff. You want to keep that. You want to get rid of, you know, the 1700s gender role.

I'm the man. I'll slap you around, go back in the kitchen kind of thing. Yeah, I can see how that would be less than ideal. But getting rid of that doesn't mean getting rid of the good stuff at all. Exactly. Have you heard the term toxic masculinity? No. That's an adorable term that like social justice warriors would throw around.

Toxic masculinity. The real problem with men adopting this idea is that they ignore the negative things that women have done. Because it's not about women. It's not about men. It's about nice people. That's really what it is. I mean, there's feminine qualities

that are beautiful and there's male masculine qualities that are beautiful. And there's people on both sides that are out of their fucking male masculine qualities that are beautiful and there's there's people on both sides that are out of their fucking mind and bad shit crazy

and to side with women on every occasion just because you're a man you're saying I'm sorry for all men before me and my apologies

like that's weak shit you know what you're doing you need to run hills okay you need to go to class take a yoga class do something and get laid

get laid get someone to touch you. And it's funny because when you don't come from a place of need, suddenly women like you ten times as much as before. There was a period where I did not – I wasn't running anymore on the typical script that I've had for most of my life where it's like, hot woman, I want your attention. Look at me. I'm great. Because I want something from you. Yeah. Like, hot woman, I want your attention. Look at me. I'm great. Because I want something from you. There was a period where things happened in a way where I didn't care.

I was just like, if we hang out, I hang out because I'm happy to. But I don't want, yeah, you're a beautiful woman. That's great. But I don't want anything from you. And, of course, the second that my brain switched away, suddenly we met like 10 times more than before. And it was like, look at how that works. That's amazing. isn't it? But there's something about being comfortable in your own skin

and just not constantly acting because you're trying to impress somebody or you want somebody to, whether it's sex, whether it's attention, whatever that may be, because you want something from them. It's like, this is who I am. You dig it, you dig it, you don't, you don't. I'm still comfortable with who I am. That makes such a difference in the way people will relate to you. I think also that regardless of the words that you choose and the way that you say them and the sentences that you structure, I think people can feel intent and they can, there's something

about it. There's an intangible quality to a needy person that even if they do say the right things and do it in the right order you know some women or some men are like oh fucking yeah not this not this dude yeah this ain't that's why you can read all the books in the world about the stuff you should say but that's barely half of the game you know there's uh it's who you are. It's not what you say, what the image you put. Even because it's painful, you have to constantly keep up this image that's not really you, and

you have to say all the right things. Life is too short for that. Have you ever paid attention at all to pickup artists? Pickup artist game? It's hilarious. I've seen some videos online where they're actually critiquing people's approaches

and strategies for getting women to talk to them. There's like videos on it where a guy will have a hidden camera and he'll talk to a girl and like then the guys in the comments will be like, interesting,

like opening, great game. I like how he's doing this. Like they have like moves. Like it's talking about jiu-jitsu or something, or chess. The way you lean to the right and lean talking to her. That's too much. But it's not

real. That's what's crazy about it. I guess it will work on some really fucking dumb girls. That's how girls will find out deep into a relationship months later that the guy's heavily in debt and wanted by the FBI and beats his mom. You don't find that shit out

because the guy tricked you with all this strategy. And if you can't read that, then you're not going to know that something's going on. But that to me is if you have a really bad radar and you can't get vibes out of people, then you're dependent on what they say. Some people have bad radar. But what they say is a smokescreen.

You know what they say? Maybe real, maybe not. It's people put on a show all the time. To me, it's like, really, you didn't feel sitting next to the guy for 35 seconds that the guy is a freak or that woman is evil. It's like, man, you feel it. It's not what they say. But it's hard. It's hard to have sovereignty.

It's hard to have personal sovereignty. It's hard to be at a place where you don't need anybody. Or you're not needy. Or when you're around a beautiful girl where you don't give a fuck. That's hard, man. It's hard. Most men, I would say like 99% of men, when they're around a really beautiful girl, they just panic. They start, even if there's no chance that girl's gonna fuck you

your your behavior alters it gets weird my solution to that it's illegal in 49 and a half state but i think that going to 49 and a half because it's legal in rural counties in nevada but going to insanely hot hookers calm people down for a man standpoint would be like okay if i want to get laid with an insanely hot woman i can yeah down the a man's standpoint would be like okay if i want to get laid with an insanely hot woman i can yeah down the money go you're nice to them they're nice to you done so if you do that then in the back of your brain is not like every time you see a hot woman is like i want this it's like i can't get this any other time in another way if you don't have game and you can't get laid in other ways at least you go to the nice friendly hooker you

get laid with hot women, then hot women don't immediately trigger, I need something from you. It's like, you're another hot woman. I was having sex with a hot woman yesterday, so what? You know, it doesn't have that same pressure to it. So I have a vague feeling that I'm not going to get a TV program and a Dr. Phil recommended, just go to hookers,

it will make your life better. But that's my take. Well, I'll tell you right now that is the wrong approach. It ain't about the woman being hot. It's about love, sir. Sir. My right ball just dropped by my ankle. Your balls, they'll rot if you hear that long enough.

They gangrene. They fall right off. Yeah, I think that the idea of going to a hooker in America is a disgusting idea. That's how we look at it as our culture. Our culture looks at prostitution as something foul. And you and I both have daughters. We don't want our daughters to become prostitutes. But if somebody else's daughter wants to do it.

What else is wrong with this thing? It's how you are. There are cases where somebody becomes a hooker because their life sucks. They are on meth. They are this and that. That's clearly not. But I know women who did become sex workers, who speak multiple languages, graduated from UCLA. They have jobs.

They have money. And their ways, they have the power in the exchange because the way they are going to play it is that they consider it kind of like dating except that I pick my clients. So it's like I'm sleeping around a lot, but I get paid bank for doing that. And that's a whole different kind. You know, not all bank for doing that. And that's a whole different kind. You know, not all prostitution is the same. That's a whole different game. That's somebody who comes from a position where they are in power rather than the typical, you know, street hooker kind of thing. That's a whole different game.

Yeah, I've met girls that have done that, that have actually like had like wealthy men that they've had sex with. And then they only had like a few of them and they sex with and then they only had like a few of them and they you know they fucked them like a couple times a month and that was their that was how they made all their money right and they but they didn't like take other clients on and i was like that is just weird that is a weird but but why is it weird because when you look at like a really hot woman like the donald ster situation. That old troll looking raisin man. And he had that girl, the one that ratted him out and made those recordings. She was hot.

Yeah. She was young and hot with a nice body. Like what do we think is going on there? Why do we think he bought her a multi-million dollar condo and a Bentley and all that? Is it okay to just buy people? So you can exchange gold coins. Can you exchange gold coins, just not paper? Yeah.

Like, how's that work? That's how it goes. Can you buy someone a house, you just can't give them cash? Like, it's weird. Like, why is the exchange, like when the exchange is actual money, not something you can convert to money, but the actual money itself, it becomes an issue. Like, prostitution exists across the board in many, many relationships.

I have friends that are married to prostitutes. Right. They really are. They just happen to be monogamous prostitutes. They're monogamous prostitutes, but these guys are wealthy guys

and these women that they're dating really don't even particularly like them. Right. And they have to buy them things all the time. Of course. And they have to constantly keep the fires of this uh this style of relationship lit that i find weird it's like

isn't it easier to just pay for a cold girl go there each time but then but then you know the problem is people want companionship they want someone to be there for them yeah but you're not gonna get it by paying somebody for that. No. Sometimes it works. Yeah? I don't know. It's like saying it can never work. I just think that a lot of people would be way better off, a lot of people, if sex wasn't such a big deal. Yep. going on like part of what's going on with with campuses um where they're they have this massive amount of attention that's being paid to sexual assault is very good in a lot of ways because

sexual assault actual real sexual assault is horrific it's disgusting it's fucked up and you know the the idea that my son could do it or that i could have done it when I was young is terrifying to me and disgusting to me. But equally, equally true. The idea of someone being accused of sexual assault where it really was just regret. Yeah. You know, like there's a lot of people that are trying to say that if two people get drunk and they have sex, then that's somehow or another that's rape. And it's just people having sex. There's no violence.

There's no forcing. That's crazy talk. And a lot of that comes from the idea, these puritanical ideas, that sex is somehow a bad thing. Because if two people got together and they got drunk and just cuddled, no one gives a shit. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

But as soon as there's penetration, now that's fine. Yeah, but as soon as penetration Yeah, that's it's like where does it end like you would okay? What if you just cuddle and you both have shorts on and a t-shirt and the guy gets a boner like what happens there? You know is that bad like what if you know what if you're cuddling and the guy and the girl don't have shirts on But they have their pants on like what the fuck are we doing? I don't know. If they're drunk and they hug, everyone's okay. But if they're drunk and they fuck, it's a real problem. Right. If someone says no and the other person forces them or does, then it's a problem.

Sure, that's right. Of course. But if it's just two people that drink and then do something and the other person wakes up in the morning and goes, I can't believe I fucked that guy. Shit. Yeah. And then their friend says, oh, my God, were you drunk? Well, you could not consent.

That is rape. That's not rape. He was drunk, too. Right. Like, there was this, I forget what the protest was, but these guys had these signs that said, regret is not rape. And there was this fucking terrible backlash. But that is what it is. It's regret. It's regret.

Whatever happened to fucking up? Whatever ever happened to making mistakes? And also, why is it that one gender gets a get out of jail free card? Like you got raped. Whereas every guy that I've ever met has gotten drunk and had sex with someone that they regretted. And then after it's over, they're like, oh, Jesus Christ, what did I do? Oh, my God. And then, you know, the girl's calling you or, you know, you see her again, you're like, what did I do? Right, yeah, nobody think of it that way.

Yeah, the guy got raped. And the guy himself is not going to think that was a rape. But a woman would think that. If a woman got drunk with a guy, but then, of course, you get into this Bill Cosby territory where a guy is purposely getting someone drunk or purposely getting someone fucked up. Well, of course, that's where it gets weird, right?

That's where it all turns into an actual crime or an actual negative interaction or a verifiable bona fide assault. Yeah, that's different even because the intent is different it's not like you're both drunk once you get to another okay whatever that's one story that one is i'm trying to get you to a vulnerable position because i want to take something from you that you don't want to give yeah and i'm coercing you and being sneaky about it and yeah that's a different story yeah that's so that's a dark thing that it happened it happens a lot of women man a lot i've talked to several women who have been roofied that's so fucking up when i was in high school i had once there was this um pretty hot girl who

was um just passed out drunk and there was two guys at a party were clearly just moving in in that direction they were clear and obvious about what was going on there was like there was two guys at a party were clearly just moving in in that direction. They were clear and obvious about what was going on. There was no ambiguity there. It's like, that is, you're trying to rape somebody. That's not. And so I remember just, I had my good Samaritan day of my life where I just kind of pick their up, walk their outside, help her throw up, do the whole thing. Because I was like, no, this is a bad scenario right here. This is not a pleasant one.

And it's not, again, the one where everybody's drunk and it's different, there's no intent. This is somebody who say, oh, vulnerability. I'm going after that. I wonder if anyone's ever done a study on places that have legalized prostitution, whether or more or less sexual assaults. From what I remember,

and I do believe I've seen studies about it I think he was less because Jamie Head to Google. Yes Yeah, I would assume that when it's not something that's almost impossible to attain because you think about it like the average guy Who makes a good living? You know, maybe occasionally you could afford to spend 500 on a prostitute or whatever the hell it costs but the idea of getting that prostitute to be in a sexual relationship with you voluntarily is almost out of the question right but you if you're a

goofy looking dude you can pay that girl and she'll fuck you and the weight of that exchange has sort of been lifted i mean there's a potential that you could get addicted to going to prostitutes but you can get addicted to going to a pool hall of course you know anything you can get addicted to swimming yep you know i know people that they every morning they get up and they fucking swim they have to swim i didn't swim today and if you have the money it's like there was there was a don winslow novel i don't know if you ever read money, it's like there was a Don Winslow novel. I don't know if you ever read that guy.

He's a master writer. Don Winslow? Yeah. He wrote a lot of thrillers. Really good writer. Never heard of him, actually. If I have, I forgot. He's the guy who did the movie Savages.

What is it? Savages. Savages. The Oliver Stone movie, I believe. Oh, yeah. That was based on a Don Winslow novel. Was that a good movie? I haven't seen it, to be honest.

I read the book. The book was good. The movie, I didn't hear anything that made me want to see it. So I was like, eh, I'll pass. But the guy is a good writer. And he has this one line at one point. I forget which novel it is. But he has this line where one guy is like, you know, she's only with you because of your money.

And the other dude is like, well, good thing I have money then. I thought it was awesome yeah what does that mean she's only with you because of this well whatever she's only with you because you're big dick and your broad shoulders so shut up stupid i'm glad i have that good we're done what does that mean right she's only with you because you're more attractive and more intelligent and more successful than me. Oh Okay, well that just diminished me to the point where I can no longer enjoy the sexual Sexual favors of this young lady exactly. What does it mean? You're only people that try to diminish you you're only because of this well about this stuff. They were talking about the

sex work I find it hilarious when people look down on it kind of like oh my god that hooker that this i'm like do you work the job you have is that a job that you would have if nobody pays you would you do that same stuff anyway and 99 of people will say no it's because i want to get paid it's like so explain to me exactly how are you different from a hooker? It's like, embrace your inner hooker, man. You're doing it for the money. That's where it's at. Embrace your inner hooker.

Yes. Researchers decriminalized prostitution in Rhode Island led to fewer rape and fewer gonorrhea cases. My point. But that's not even legal. That's just decriminalized. So that means you can't get arrested for it. I was finding stuff on both ends of it actually so what's that i was finding it on articles on both ends what do you mean by that it was going up and

down there's people saying both classic the statistics clearly show that it increases no the statistics clearly show that it decreases that kind of stuff yeah there's studies for whichever side you really want to pick really hmm. It's like the Bible. You see, decriminalized, though, is not legalized. What you want is a nice brothel. Nice and clean, like a beautiful establishment, like a Burke Williams spa. Burke Williams of Hooker. Burke Williams of Hooker. If you go to a Burke Williams spa, they give you a glass of water with lemon in it.

It's nice. And they have the chimes going and the incense. You walk in, there's scented candles. They give you a nice massage. But they're not supposed to have sex with you. See? That's a problem. But if you can go to one of those places and they had sex with you, you'd be like, what a great exchange.

I know. Perfect. I'm nice to you. you you got a bunch of money you're nice to me everybody wins it's puritanical it totally is because if you really break it down why would it be illegal to do something that you can do for free if you can do it for money right why i mean if you could do it for free why can't you do it for money because everything else you can do like massage like you could give people foot mass, why can't you do it for money? Because everything else you can do, like massage. You could give people foot massages all day. Exactly. But if it's a sexual thing, suddenly it's illegal and it's terrible.

I find it hilarious. This is puritanical religious crap that we carry with us from another time. And it's just still around in people's mentality. Because when you think about it, I think it's complete bullshit. It warps our minds, too too because it turns sex into some forbidden dirty act yeah yeah you know I don't know it's the whole like pattern of it is very difficult to break though I don't I mean I think these they broke it somewhat in the 60s you you know, Summer of Love. But they were all on acid.

That helps. That definitely helps. That is what acid does. That's what mushrooms do. That's what DMT does. That paradigm shifting reset button where you go, oh, why am I doing it this way? Why am I? That's where all those songs like Love the One You're With came from.

It was a free love generation. It was different, right? Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Like, that's all it took. Just a little bit of drugs, and people went from Father Knows Best to Love the One You're With. And, like, inside of 10 years. 1960s are a trippy time, right?

Fuck yeah. Even just music-wise. You listen to what people were listening to in 1961, what they were listening to by 1968, and it feels like 300 years have gone by. It's such a nice night and day kind of thing. They are like, how did that even happen in that little period of time? You go from your mellow Motown to Jimi Hendrix. It doesn't even sound remotely close. Everything, the clothes.

They started wearing bandanas and bell bottoms and freaky vests and shirts with flowers on them. Like the whole thing just fucking completely flipped on its head. Just some drugs. This much time. That's what people don't really truly comprehend and i didn't truly comprehend until i got older because when i was a kid and i was in school i okay i graduated from school in 1985 that's when i graduated from high school and if you you stop and think about that

20 years before that was the height of all that freaky shit. Yep. It was alive and popping in 1965. That's like, that's not that long ago, man. That's 1995 to us. Like 1995 seems like just a few years ago. To think about 1995 just being freaks and hippies and Woodstock and chaos. And then the government just threw water on the whole thing. Put that fire out. And everything calmed down in the 70s and in the 80s.

They gave everybody Coke. Right. And then Miami Vice and Don Johnson didn't have any socks on. He's driving around in a Ferrari Testarossa. And it all sort of got to this different place. Like they took the drugs out of the equation and there was this big void and no one knew what to do. And it just sort of like had this chaotic bouncing against the wall thing where it was

trying to find its equilibrium and find its harmonious vibration to get back to where it would have been. But inexorably altered because of this one decade. Big time. I mean, even the drugs just, it's not like in the 80s people weren't doing drugs, but nastier drugs. You go from psychedelics to hard stuff. Crack.

Yeah. Crack. We're not talking the same drugs here. It's a very different kind of game. Amazing. It's amazing. It's really amazing when you get older and you realize that 10 years is nothing. Yeah.

It's such a, like 10 years ago was 2005. That is exactly like today. What is the difference between 2005 and today? No iPhones. Other than that, what's the difference? We're all online. Everybody had email. I mean, there was less social media and things along those lines, but ultimately there's

very little difference between today and 2005. If you had a 2005 car, that's a nice car. You could drive that around. It'd be just like a modern car or a 2015 car. No different. Not much difference in the music. You could listen to some music from 2005. It's pretty similar.

Big time. Yeah, you could take a song from 2005. You could totally release it today. Like a hit, and it would be a hit today. But the difference between a hit from 1955 and a hit from 1965, Jesus Christ. Jesus, what a difference. Which is why, to this day, people about the 1960s either love it or hate it. People either are like, the 60s, they ruined American culture, everything got terrible.

Or they're like, oh, thank God for the 60s. That's where all the cool stuff started happening. Yeah. It's very rare to find people who are neutral about it. The difference is the people that got the drugs and didn't get any drugs. Exactly. The people that were getting crew cuts and fucking goddamn hippies. Yeah.

They never got it. They didn't understand. They missed the boat. Yeah. Let's nuke Vietnam. They didn't let us win. That's what happened. It's fascinating to think that the culture can shift and change so quickly.

That must have been terrifying for the old guard, the people that were around. You also have to think the ability to communicate about these things, about these complex issues, didn't exist back then. The ability to communicate about these things, about these complex issues, didn't exist back then. So all you could do is go down to your local bar and complain. I guess they didn't even have coffee shops back then. Really? No. No coffee shops?

Serious? Who the fuck had one? There was like diners. Huh. I mean, but they didn't have like a Starbucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. That shit didn't even exist. Man, that's nuts.

When I was a kid, like you would go to Dunkin' Donuts and get coffee. But that was it. There was no Starbucks. And no place like the mom and pop store wasn't just open tables where people could sit down and chat. It was just go in, get your coffee, get out. I mean, it was all local. Like, I remember, like, if you were a worldly person in Boston, you would get the New York Times. That was to show everybody that you were a worldly.

You would read the New York Times. If you were a dummy, you would get the Herald. And if you were local, but you're on the ball, you get the Boston Globe. I used to deliver all three of them. The New York Times was very rare. And whenever I would deliver the New York Times,

the dude always had a BMW or a Saab or something like that. You know, they always had like some, some cool car and they lived in a cool house and they just, they wanted to be more into, they didn't want to live in New York necessarily. Or if they did, they didn't have the funds to move there,

but they wanted to be worldly. They, and sounded like they had the money. Yeah. And that's how you got a hold of the real news. That's how you had your finger on the pulse. And you had to be active. Like I remember, you know, like there was this guy that I knew that would, you know, he would read all the papers.

He would read the Times. He would read the Herald. And I would ask him, like, why do you read all these different papers? Why don't you just pick one and read them he's like to really get a sense of what's going on in the world you really got to read all of them like the new york times will cover some subjects globally that the boston globe won't the boston herald doesn't give a fuck about what's happening anywhere but boston and there was like this thing where you'd had to kind of like search around to get a a sound like a distant sound of the earth,

of like what's actually going on on the planet. Whereas today, it's unavoidable. Today, you actually got to hide from information. I know you'd say, no, spoiler. I don't want to know about that. Don't fucking tell me about the walking dead yet. No, I know. When I was growing up, me being in Italy too,

which was even further removed from some of the news, I love basketball. And I remember when I was maybe eight, me being in Italy too, which was even further removed from some of the news, I love basketball. And I remember when I was maybe eight, nine years old, I wanted to find out, you know, who won the NBA finals? There was the game on Sunday. What happened? And I literally would have to call the one magazine in Italy that dealt with basketball that would come out once a month. And I would call them and they had talked to their friend in New York who had told them who won. Otherwise, I would have had to wait probably three weeks until that next issue come up who tells you who won the NBA final a month earlier.

Wow. That's the world that I grew up in. And so it's like when you think about today, you can be on the top of the Himalayan. If you find the right connection, you can watch the game live. That's a whole other game altogether. Yeah, you were reading about basketball that happened weeks ago. Yeah.

And get all excited. It's like, man, I can't believe I'm going to find out now about that game. When were the first organized sports? There was 1800s already. Late 1800s in the U.S., you start having a whole bunch. There's an awesome story about the development of football in the United States, which was by no means the first. Baseball was before and everything.

But football was funny because there's this story that late 1800s, there's no more frontier. There are no more Indian wars because everybody's been conquered. There's no more frontier. There are no more Indian wars because everybody's been conquered. So there was not anymore this tradition for kind of upper class males to go in the military, fight the Indians, that kind of stuff. So many of the old guard felt that their kids were growing up to be wimps. Like, what? You haven't even killed a few Indians. What's wrong with you? You're not a real man.

So they would send them to all the Ivy League school that were beginning to pop up up but they felt like yeah you read books you don't kill anybody i don't know about your masculinity really so somebody was like okay we can play this game where we they beat the shit out of each other it's going to be this manly physical game where they just brutalize each other then at least you know it's not as good as bringing home a good scalp, but it's something. You know, it's like it saves their masculinity and stuff. And that's how a lot of, so if you see all the big football programs of the late 1800s, even early 1900s, they were all Ivy League school. Stuff that today you never, you know, Harvard, Yale,

they had the top football programs. And it's like, how the hell did that even, and a lot of it was because it was a way to show, look, I read books, but I'm still a man. Okay. I'm still tough. Wow. That's interesting. So it was a substitute for war. Yeah.

Which totally makes sense. I mean, that's kind of exactly what it is. If you watch a game, it's, you know, you're winning. You're attacking. You know, you're trying to defend. You're crossing a boundary, which is like the border to the city, the gates

to the brothel or to the castle or wherever you're trying to break into. Wow. Yeah. And even at these all the top schools were Ivy League, upper class, super rich people. And then one of the top schools were Ivy League, upper class, you know, super rich people. And then one of the top schools was Carlisle Indian School, which was the lowest of the low, like poorest people in the United States, Indian kids who got sent there and boarded in schools.

They had nothing to do. They would play football. And so what they would do is that they would study the rule book, try to figure out what is that nobody's doing, that technically it's legal, but that, you know, what kind of loophole can we play with? And they would start, you know, using some tactic that nobody had used, kill everybody in the process.

So then the league goes, okay, we can't have the Indians beating Harvard, so let's change the rules. That thing they do make it illegal. Like what things were? You know what? I wish I remember. I read through the list. That thing they do, make it illegal. Like what things were? You know what? I wish I remember. I read through the list.

There were some that were really insane. But basically, they developed the game of football in terms of this constant game between the league and the Indian school where these guys use some loophole, the league comes in, makes it illegal. And then the next time, they use a different loophole and then the league comes in. And so a lot of the rules of football were shaped to start, okay, those guys do it, let's stop it right now. That's interesting. Lucky for them, black people weren't playing back then.

Yeah, seriously. They wouldn't change all the rules. Yeah, exactly. That's what they've done now, they just give up. It's mostly black people. So you can turn. You can turn. You can get really big and white and block the runners.

Or you can get good eyesight, hand-eye coordination. You could throw the ball at black people who run really fast. It's so rare. You get like a super speedy white guy. When one comes around, they're like, look at him go. He runs like a black guy. It's hilarious. It is fucking hilarious.

That is funny how the stereotypes change over time because like early, you had Thad Russell on the show, like in his book. Thad Russell, yeah. He breaks down how many of the early natural Jewish athletes, which you're like, what? Yeah, what? Or, you know, a lot of the early boxers were all Irish. A lot of Jewish boxers. Yeah, big time. Back in the day.

Big time. Well, they were people that were fucked with. They were the early immigrants, and they were struggling. That's what it always seems to be. It seems to be the group that is the most recent immigrants. Now you get a lot of Russians. A lot of Russians in both Europe and in America. There were so many Russians in MMA.

Dagestan, a lot of Dagestan people and a fucking completely disproportionate amount of elite fighters too. A lot of really fucking tough guys from Russia. Well, if you are used to, I mean, it's almost stereotypical, but if you are used to toughness throughout your life, then climbing in the ring doesn't seem like much. If you are all sheltered and protected, climbing in the ring is scary as hell. Exactly. It's exactly what it is.

It's exactly what it is. And it's also like the hunger that you have because your life has been like just filled with despair and struggle and a lot of abuse. So like violence becomes like some sort of an automatic response to reaching out for abuse, you know, reaching out in response for the abuse you've suffered. Like, they, like, have a—that's where a chip on your shoulder comes from, right? Right.

It's like someone just waiting for someone to say some shit because you've just been dealing bottled up. You have this rage that is like, please just cross that line so I have an excuse to beat the shit out of you right now yeah a few generations later your kids are pussies yeah you look at them like go play football damn it what kind of man are you but is it it's weird because like isn't it kind of a good thing that they become pussies because that means we've become civilized and everyone sort of calmed down like this is weird fine line that we walk because ultimately we would like to have no violence. Like ultimately we would love it if you never had to worry about a threat of violence.

Just go through your entire life, never worry about anybody shooting you or stabbing you or beating you up, and that'd be beautiful. But along the line, you kind of lose out on a lot of the stuff that comes along with living a hard life yep the character that you develop like everybody that i know that grew up in a tough neighborhood they have a sharpness to them you know and there's a character that they have that they possess that the people that grew up super cushy and some you know, Connecticut country club estate type situation.

I didn't grow up in the roughest environment, but it definitely was not upper class, rich, anything. So to me, dealing with gangsters was kind of normal. It was like, you know, just a gangster. There are clear rules of the game. You know how to deal with them. And so to see people who don't have that experience and when they deal with somebody who is by nature, by— What kind of gangsters? Like mafia guys?

Not formally. No, usually not mafia. More just like, you know, people who deal, people who rob, you know, that kind of thing. Where it's like the guys who are some serious artists of just shoplifting who just can go into a store and walk out, and they would do it pretty much professionally where they make a living by, you know, stuff like that, where it's always like crossing, definitely doing illegal stuff. I mean, I've met some guys who are probably more well-connected in a more formal way, but that was not the normal thing.

But the normal thing was guys who do a lot of illegal stuff, or maybe they are not technically gangster in a strict sense, but people who get into a lot of fights or, you know, that kind of thing, where it's like sort of outside of the normal rules of civilized society. But to me, it's like there are clear rules

of what you do with those guys. Usually, if you treat them with respect and you don't show yourself to be a wimp, they treat you fairly well. There's, if you know how to play the game. If you don't, you know, these guys will test you. And if they smell weakness, then they'll clamp down on you, you know. Or if you look down on them, they will clamp down on you, you know. There's a very clear rule of the game that if you play it right, you can have very mellow, pleasant interactions.

Yeah. rule of the game that if you play it right you can have very mellow pleasant interactions yeah but people who don't have that experience that i see them interact with like don't say that you cannot say that to that guy you know that's just not gonna end well it's that's bad well some people have a real issue with letting people in to their life like you would see that like that was what people always said about rap music. One of the big problems with rap music is these guys would make it, and they would become legit, and then they would let gangsters in their life because they wanted to be seen with these people. They wanted to be legit.

And then all of a sudden, these people are completely intertwined in their life. Apparently, that happened with Edward James Olmos when he did that movie, American Me. Yeah. Do you know the story behind that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a scary business. Yeah, it was a heavy-duty movie, and the movie was all about these Mexican gangbangers, and apparently he had become friends with these guys, in air quotes, friends, while filming this movie and just got way too close, and they just started extorting him.

And they started demanding money, and they knew where he lived, and it became a real fucking issue. Yeah, you are their lunch at that point. And again, if they think that there's any weakness there, then you're screwed. That's why there's a predatorial aspect to that game where you need to know how to play it, otherwise you're fucked. And I'm sure he wanted to be down, you know? Yeah, of course. He's doing this movie, he's got to play how to play it, otherwise you're fucked. And I'm sure he wanted to be down, you know? Yeah, of course.

He's doing this movie. Right. He's got to play this gangster cholo, but then the movie had all this gay sex in it. Yeah, that was right. Hey, you're not supposed to talk about that. Still traumatized now, I think. That was a heavy movie, man.

Yeah, there was a lot of weirdness in that movie. It's like, what is going on? Yeah, that was rough. Definitely bad stuff. But that, that whole like becoming tight with gangsters,

like that's a, that's a common tale. That's a, that has repeated itself over and over and over again. Like with Hollywood actors that wanted to be like

tough guys or. And that weakness right there because if they smell that you want something from them or that you look up to them in some way then that's weakness if they see you putting them down that's also a challenge so you're kind of screwed if you do one thing you're screwed if you do another there's sort of a narrow way it's not too narrow you know there's a way to do it

but if you step outside of it yeah you're fucked yeah and it's but it's the same thing is like getting into fights you know how if you are too aggressive you will get into fights because you're fucked yeah and it's but it's the same thing is like getting into fights you know if you are too aggressive you will get into fights because you're challenging people and you're backing them in against the corner they have to fight you back but if you are too mellow then people won't respect you and they see you as weak and they come after you you kind of have to have that boundary where you're polite to people you're nice but the message is look i'm nice because i choose to if you decide to cross that line i'm gonna fuck you up right now and that vibe where it's like you can bring up the goods when it comes

down to throwing down but you don't volunteer it you're not this macho guy who's like trying to get into a fight that's what usually people who are out for a fight and to respect them back away from he's like that guy i'm not gonna pick that guy i'm gonna pick the next one yeah i mean obviously there's a lot of variables and sometimes you just run into the wrong person at the wrong time. Shit happens, of course. But there's a parallel with the animal world. I mean, you think about dogs, certain dogs. If you're

around dogs and you panic and you run, they'll chase you and bite you. It's instinctive on their part. They almost can't help it. Whereas if you encounter dogs or even some wild animals and they say you have to stand your ground or yell at them like mountain lions especially you know they say you're supposed to look big

and make noise and they're like alright fuck this I'm out of here this is too much work you know they don't want to get injured so they're looking for something easy but when they sense weakness I think it's almost nature like nature wants them to go after you.

He goes, look at this weak bitch. Let's just eat him. Let's just eat this dude. No, that's what it is. That's the predatory. I remember once when I was a kid,

I was probably like 18, 19 years old and I was, I found myself in one of the situations where I was like, what the fuck am I doing here? Because I basically

ended up in the middle of two, not exactly gangs, but close to, that they were about to get into a fight. Like West Side Story type shit? Kind of, you know, so it's not real mafia or Blood and Creeps, real gangster, but it's, you know.

Tough guys. Yeah, and I was dealing with some guys, and then this other group come along, and I'm in the middle, and you can't really walk away because that you're a bitch. It's like, oh, Jesus, really? Do I have to be in the middle of this shit and you know they start in this ritualized way where they start talking shit and so you can almost set your clock it's like okay we're two and a half minutes away from the fight right it's like they are going through their dances then they're

gonna do a push and there's gonna and then they're gonna throw down and i remember i was talking with some of these guys from quote unquote the other, assuming that I was with one side. And my vibe with these guys was like, look, if we really want to do this, okay, fine, let's do this. But honestly, I was thinking I had a date tonight. I want to go out with this hot woman. We're going to go to a movie. I kind of rather would do that than this. But I don't know. Maybe you guys have nothing better would do that than this, but I don't know.

Maybe you guys have nothing better to do. I mean, if we don't, let's fucking do it. That's Italians. You guys are sitting there having these long conversations, sit down, have a coffee, a little spaghetti. And it was hilarious because in the meantime, the two main guys were kind of building it up, and by the time they turned around, nobody wanted to fight. They were all like, no, you're right. I kind of want to do

this other thing. Fuck this. I don't feel like it. And, you know, they said they would lift their shirt and they had chains on. They were like, you know, I come ready. You're right. Fuck this. Chains? They were ready to fight with chains? Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, nobody has guns. So it's a chain fight. Wow. That kind of thing.

That's it. Oh, Jesus Christ. So I thought, that's a win. You know, I didn't get to, I felt i felt like okay that was one of my better days in terms of how i played it because if again if you show too much fear then you get squashed but if you show too much aggressiveness then you invite the fight there's also a natural thing when groups of men meet it's almost like it's a tribal thing that's in our dna back to when you would run into people you you know, out in the field and it would turn into a war, like almost like an instinctive bonding thing.

I wonder if that's where, like, cause a lot of the most heinous atrocities that human beings have ever created or committed rather, they've committed in the process of war, right? And they say that during the process of war, like people are capable capable of horrific terrifying things that they would never do ordinarily and then also they say that When you have like this mob mentality like people will do things like Gang rapes or gang murders gang beatings looting lighting places on fire like the behavior Escalates to this really like insane place that is very, very rare for someone to go to on their own as an individual. And I wonder if that's ingrained in us because of this long history of war in the human race

that when you get a bunch of men together and a bunch of men on the other side, we just immediately go to fucking scorched earth it's immediately cutting off heads and lighting bodies on fire and catapulting them onto rooftops and just you know what i mean it's like i know human history does read like game of thrones to me game of thrones is a fictionalized documentary it's just it's how it is right that's and dragons yeah and dragons yeah minus the dragons but other than, it's just most of human history has been like that. And then you get into those things where maybe you don't want to start it,

but you remember, remember those fuckers they got, little Johnny the other time, and they burned him, and so now you feel entitled. Get him back. Exactly. And then it never ends

because it's the other guy started it. I'm not choosing this game, but hey, they started it, and then they remember that you did it. It's like you never got out. Yeah, I tried to explain that to somebody once when I was talking about street fights. And I was saying that if you get into a fight with someone, you're not just getting into a fight.

You're signing a contract that you will be in conflict with them back and forth until it's resolved. It's not as simple as you get in a fight. It's very rare that two people get in a fight, and then after that fight's over, it's over. We's not as simple as you get in a fight. It's very rare the two people get in a fight and then after that fight's over, like, it's over. We'll shake hands and walk away. Even often in a contest,

like a jiu-jitsu match or a kickboxing match or something along those lines, after it's over, people are still upset if they lose and they still want to get that guy back. But a fight fight, like an actual fight on the street fight, oh my God, that can go on for you like what was the uh the famous feud in america the the hat fields and the mccoys of course right

these two wacky families killed each other back and forth for years they just couldn't resolve it now that's why when you once you start is uh you better finish it you know but if you're go down that way, then you have to go down all out. Then you just need to really put an end to that situation where nobody from the other side can come get you. But then in a war, you're talking genocide. That's not exactly the most pleasant solution in the war that you want to get into. But the reality is that beating somebody is only postponed in the next fight. It's kind of like World War I and World War II. They are mad because they got beaten.

They are itching for a chance for revenge. And the first time they have it, they'll jump on it because they are pissed off, and understandably so. So unless it's resolved in some way where everybody can say, we are done, right? We're not saying we're happy, but can we live with the current compromise? The stuff that we reach after the fight, the balance of power? Can you live with it?

Then it becomes a lot. Then that's why World War Two, you know, dumping a ton of money into Germany and much of Western Europe rebuilding it. They took away that resentment that otherwise would have been there. Like those fuckers put us in this situation and they ruined our life. And that's why our economy sucks. That's why everything, you know, being extra generous in that regard wasn't just generous out of the goodness of your heart.

It's because you want to make sure you don't fight World War III in 10 years down the road. And that works. That's a good alternative to genocide. Yeah, smart people learned how to negotiate. They go, look, we're going to, let's just work this out. Let's figure out a way, a mutually agreeable way where we can walk away and have some dignity.

Yep. It's really fascinating. I had this conversation with Duncan once, and it was the first time I ever thought this, but I said that the history of the human race is essentially military history. I've been obsessed with this thought because next time I chat with Dan Carlin, that's what I want to bring up. And the one question I want to ask him is exactly about this. He's like, I love what Dan does. I love a lot of history.

I dig it from so many different angles. And yet, why do we always end up talking about horrible stuff? And I do it too. You know, shit, my first two episodes of History on Fire are all about some nasty things. Insane shit. Why is it the stuff that we remember? Why is it that the stuff that makes the history book is all the horrible

atrocity, massacre, war, set people on fire? Is it that just we don't do anything else or that it doesn't catch our attention? I wish there was a way to also put the spotlight in history on some more mellow aspects of people who figured out ways

to live a good life in the middle of all the shit that was going down. It seems so much of it is, as you're saying, it's all military stuff. It's all fight, war, explode the other side.

That's really the big events, though. I mean, when you look at the history of the united states what what are the events that people talk about well arguably the whole slavery right arguably that's a war because it's a it's a war on these people's sovereignty it's a war on their freedom and there's a and then a real war breaks out between the north and the south over the rights to this and then the economic aspects of it and then you look at world war one of course and world war two so we got to fight the nazis and then we got freedom and all this i mean it's

the entire country like the history of this country is war and then you go back to europe well the history of europe is all war too and other than Figuring out the printing press and a bunch of different cool inventions Look one of the great podcast that Dan Carlin did on history That's not necessarily about war is riddled with violence the prophets of doom about Martin War but it is it is yeah, it's violence Martin Luther. I mean, that's not about war, but it is. It is. Yeah, it's still violence.

Fucking horrific. Yeah. Horrific, amazing and horrific violence. Yeah, yeah. But I think a lot of it is there's a bias in the record because it's a cheap, easy way to get people's attention. And so most of our history, it's an easy way for us to go down that path. And I do it too, right? I look at 90 of

the episodes i'm preparing for history on fire i'm like oh great it's another beheading of this and it's another and i realize but why don't we and i don't mean we as in i mean in general it's like people who write history our way of thinking why i'm not denying that part that's an important part and we should look at it but why don't we also look at other things it's like what's wrong with uh studying about you know putting the accent more on stuff about people dropping acid and having sex outside of marriage a lot more and listening to cool music and coming out with jimi hendrix and why is that that less important than the cold war uh it's not to me that just I mean, how many people's life has it touched or has transformed that way? A lot. A lot, as much as, you know, sometimes we think whose precedent

is history. In fact, in most of our lives, whose precedent is most mildly important at most. And there are so many other things that count for so much more But why is it that then when we write a history? It's about whose president and what war took place when there's so much other stuff in our lives that Count for more isn't the when we were talking about the 60s isn't a big part of the 60s Oh the Vietnam War and the resistance of the Vietnam War and that sort of fueled That sort of crazy hippie behavior because they realized that these old assholes and their shitty, stupid ways had led us into the South Pacific and this crazy war that nobody wanted. I mean, that's a big part, I think, of the rebellion of the 1960s. It's almost unavoidable because that's the worst thing that can happen.

See, the worst thing that can happen is someone kills you or kills your loved ones. Sure. Right? See, the worst thing that can happen is someone kills you or kills your loved ones. Sure. Right? So when that happens en masse, you know, like in war, well, those become the biggest blips on the social radar. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

So I guess embrace our inner Game of Thrones and just deal with it. Okay. Well, it kind of seems like it's unavoidable. Well, what's unavoidable, it seems like at least historically, I'm not saying about for the future, but war seemed unavoidable because it was never avoided. I mean, it's hard to argue that war is avoidable when it's never been avoided. It's like you kind of at a certain point in time, you know, if a girl acts like a cunt all the time, she's always screaming and yelling and clawing and pulling chicks' hairs. And she's like, I'm not a cunt. But you're a cunt every day.

You might be a cunt. If you were today, you were the day before. You fucking keyed three people's cars today. You threw a fucking bag out the window. You're a cunt. I'm glad you don't feel that way. But I'm not a cunt. You don't understand me.

I don't understand you. Okay. Well, people are warlike. No, we're not. We're not, man. We're not. Okay, but human history says you're wrong. Yep.

It really does. It does. Like, there's not a single moment in time in human history where someone somewhere wasn't killing. Like, okay, let's look at it this way. I believe firmly that if you, me, and Jamie all lived together on an island, we would not kill each other. If we had plenty of food and we didn't argue over resources, we got along great. I don't think we would kill each other.

Assuming that there are at least three women there. At least one girl that's got a lot of endurance. That could work as well. That could also do it. But even if there wasn't, right? Even if we just went and jerked off in bushes for the rest of our lives. You would say,

okay, the odds of us killing each other are extremely, extremely small. So if there was only three of us on the planet, there would be no war. That would be it. There would be no war. But as soon as you get more than three, as soon as you get more than ten, like if there was ten of us, if it was ten of us living on an island, man, the odds of somebody getting jacked, it goes up.

They start, yeah. You get to 20, ooh, things get weird. Something could happen. Things get weird. What happens if it's 20 and 17 are guys and three are women? Someone's going to die. Yeah, at that point, it's a guarantee. It's not even a for debate.

It's a number thing, right? Like you get to a certain number of people, and then war becomes inevitable. And there's never been a time, ever, in the history of the human race where someone, somewhere, wasn't killing somebody. It's literally never happened. Not that we know of. Right. Well, you need to read the Bible and go back to the time of Jesus.

Adam and Eve never did anything to each other. I think there's a certain point in time where you go back and people were essentially dealing with predators. And that might have been the only time we weren't killing each other. We're just constantly worried about getting eaten. Right. And we had constantly worried about getting eaten. Right.

And we had to work together. But even then, like giraffes kill each other. I didn't know until this year that giraffes kill each other. I didn't know that. I just found out now. Dude, you gotta see the way they do it. What do they do? They beat each other with their necks. They use their head like a whip.

You know those weird knobs that they have On their heads They whip each other with those things They use their head like literally like a whip And it's the weirdest thing to Pull that shit up Jamie They beat each other to death though Like commonly

Beat each other to death Until I started hunting I didn't know that deers kill each other All the time They stab each other all the time What a horrible doggy dog world Until I started hunting, I didn't know that deers kill each other all the time. They stab each other all the time. What a horrible doggy dog world. Imagine you grow swords on your head and just run around stabbing each other. But giraffes, it's so odd to do it because it's a whipping thing.

Look. See, they whip each other. Look at that. Bam. Look at this. They stand side to side. Yeah, they stand side to side, and they push on each other, and then they whip each other with their heads. What are they thinking right now?

He's like... Look at how they do it. This seems like it's sped up, Jamie. Is it sped up? I don't think so. Wow. Oh, it's not sped up. No, it is sped up.

Yeah, it's sped up. It's so weird. This is not sped up. Okay, this one's not sped up. That's more realistic. I think the first one in the... This is a video series of giraffes. What is the name of this video?

Giraffes Fighting Giraffe Battles. But they always do it the same way. They go side to side. It's just like two dudes standing shoulder to shoulder. And then headbutting each other. Weird. Yeah, it's so strange, man. And these guys at least are clinching this one.

The previous ones were in this stand side to side, walk each other, and then take five seconds where they are thinking about the next move. But look, they get back to the same position. They always get back to the shoulder to shoulder position. When they clinch up, it's just to get back to the side-by-side position so they can fucking head-butt each other. So strange. These guys are hardcore. And they use their head to the side-by-side position so they can fucking headbutt each other. So strange. These guys are hardcore.

And they use their head to the body. See, they attack the body with those antlers. They're like nubs, whatever it is. But they'll go to the same spot over and over again, like right to the rib cage. Can you imagine if giraffes had actually deer antlers? They would just gore the shit out of each other. They would. But see, if you go to

the zoo you would never imagine this takes place no because one of the cool things about giraffes is that they're an animal that's so universally gentle yep that you can have babies feed them like my daughter when she was two years old we let her they give you lettuce and you hold out the lettuce and the giraffe comes over with this crazy tongue that's like an arm, and they reach out with their tongue, and it wraps around the leaves, and it pulls it. But they're so confident in their behavior around people that they let babies feed them. But you get these two motherfuckers together, and they fight over some pussy. That's what he told us.

It's exactly what this is. That's exactly what the deer don't fight. You know, deer get together in bachelor groups when they're not breeding, when the rut is over. It's exactly what this is. That's exactly what the deer don't fight. You know, deer get together in bachelor groups when they're not breeding, when the rut is over. And they're all right. And they're buddies. They're all buddies together. That's like one of the best ways that people hunt them

out of the rut is to find bachelor groups. And then you're... Because they get done with those bitches. They don't even want to hang out with them. As soon as they get done fighting, or as soon as they're done fighting and fucking, they're like, let's just hang out, guys. Come on.

Let's go wander through the countryside. Let's go camp. Let's go hang out. Tell some stories. Come on, guys. I know we stabbed each other a couple of weeks ago, but that's over, bro. It's over. You survive.

I survive. We can be friends again. They heal up quick, too. That's another bizarre thing about deer. It's like they'll stab each other, and they put these horrible gashes in their body and then like a week later it's like completely sealed up and they're just walking around like nothing happened wolverine power just they just super super high metabolism and probably just you know they only live like seven years so i think whatever injuries they have just seals up quick because there was this video of this guy.

He went bow hunting, and he missed this deer. He missed a good spot. He missed the vitals, and he hit it in the shoulder. So the deer got an arrow in its shoulder. And then they found the deer a week later walking around like nothing. Just arrow fell off. Oh, it fell off. Arrow fell off.

The hole in the shoulder had healed up, just sealed itself. It's like, what the fuck? That's freaky. Well, they have to be like that. Yeah, they're dead. In their world, they're getting stabbed all the time by swords that these dudes are growing on their heads. They were competing for sex. Competing for sex.

That goes back to my point. If there were giraffe hookers or deer hookers, these guys would suddenly get along. Well, the crazy thing about deer is it's not just about sex. It's literally only about sex one time a year. It just increases the pressure. It's like, this is my one chance, man, and I only live seven years. So how many chances do I really have in my life? Three, four, five at most.

At most. If you're in my way i'm gonna fucking kill you i don't yeah yeah most of them they freeze to death they freeze to death they starve to death like they'll wear their teeth down to nothing and they can no longer process grains that's not a good way to go it happens to a lot of deer like a lot of people will kill an old deer and then they open its mouth up and they go wow he would have never made it through the winter because their their teeth are gone. They just have a very finite

resource with those teeth. At that point, you're really doing them a favor because that's a way to go by low starvation. That's fucked up. Or they get even worse. They're on their way to getting starved and the coyotes find them. Yeah. They're weak. And then you get eaten alive.

Asshole first. That's how they get you. Ugh. Ooh. There was a thing that I tweeted today, Jamie. You see that thing about there's literally a new species that is evolving before our eyes. It's a mix of coyotes, wolves, and dogs, and domestic dogs.

No way. And then a hybrid of these three is incredibly successful. And it's like the coy wolves are coyotes and wolves and we've known about them for a while and that's really a fascinating thing because it's a larger coyote but look at this new species new species evolving right before our eyes an ultra successful mix of wolves coyotes and dogs it's a really interesting article but it's an actual this is from the economist this is actually they're mating with each other and they're creating an actual species really fast wow that's creepy yeah the inbreeding began up to 200 years ago as european settlers pushed into southern ontario and cleared

the animal's habitat for farming and killed a large number of wolves that lived there. It also allowed coyotes to spread from the prairies and the white farmers brought dogs into the region. Over time, wolves began mating with their new genetically similar neighbors and the resulting offspring, which have been called the eastern coyote or to some the coy wolf, now number in the millions according to research of North Carolina State University. This is really interesting stuff, man. That's crazy. 55 pounds?

Not small at all. No. 437, this is cool. An analysis of 437 hybrid animals found that the coyote DNA dominates its genetic makeup with about one-tenth of its DNA from dogs, usually from a larger dog such as Doberman Pinchers and German Shepherds, and a quarter from wolves. Wow. That's freaky. Yeah, doubled in size compared to a coyote. That's

big. Yeah. It's fascinating to think how a species evolved in the first place. Like, how did a wolf become a wolf? You know, how did a giraffe become a giraffe? And to see something like this happening and have a very clear line, like a genetic line, like this is what caused this. This is amazing stuff, man. It's fucking trippy, though. Sure is.

That's always what you wonder about evolution going wrong when you see those animals you know you think about wolves and then you see some of the dog species today i'm like how the fuck did you come about just you're not suited for anything man it's like and they've been doing it for thousands of years that's like a modern dog has been around for thousands of years we don't even know the original origin. There's a lot of speculation. They believe that the wolves that were around human beings, they became different because they wanted the people to like them. So they became the more successful ones that stayed were the ones that were a little more timid and more beta.

Playful. Yeah. They did a study on foxes, a really interesting study that they highlighted in this Radiolab podcast. But they were talking about genetic diversity in foxes where they only allowed the foxes that were timid and more accepting of human touch and to be around humans. They only allowed them to live. And they sort of like bred those, let those breed with other ones. And over like 10 years, they had completely changed the fox DNA.

Like they had completely changed the point where their ears were no longer pointed. They flopped. They didn't stick straight up. They flopped. Their jaws became more feminine. In 10 years? And their color started changing nuts Yeah, ten years generations. Maybe our foxes or something. That's crazy Yeah, I mean probably more than three generations because you know generation isn't exactly the entire lifetime

It's like how long it takes you to breed into successful. You might have a couple of years or something So maybe five generations. Yeah, it's crazy, though. Still not much. Yeah. Five generations is nothing. Well, that's what they're finding now more and more, the more they study life, is that life can evolve and change and shift and adapt incredibly quickly. Wow. My favorite story of that is the Congo, because the Congo used to be like a grassland. It used to be a savannah.

And then the climate changed changed it became this really lush rainforest but a lot of these animals that were like savannah animals they got trapped right there they are stuck they're stuck inside this rainforest so like there's this bbc documentary on the congo and one of the cool things is seeing this swampy crazy rainforest and then seeing these deer run through the water of the rainforest, these antelopes. And you're like, whoa, they're supposed to be in grasslands and they're just trapped in this insanely dense rainforest. Did they change anything like their habits, anything about their physical features that

was dramatically different? Some of them. One of them is called a duiker. And a duiker is a very small antelope but it can swim underwater for up to 100 yards and it eats fish the hell what the hell yeah i don't know what i would picture yeah 100 yards underwater underwater that's what the fuck yes it's it became something that adapted to that environment yeah Yeah, they can eat fish. But they found that deer eat birds.

They didn't know that until like really recently. And one of the ways they found it was through camera traps. Because, you know, they have these camera, these trail cams that people put up when they're hunting. And when they put up these trail cams, as the trail cams got more and more sophisticated they started using video trail cameras and as the video trail cameras started you know they get the data back from them they started finding like occasionally birds like deer would eat ground nesting birds yeah so ruin in my disney fantasies oh it just told me that they do spit the shit out of each other, that deer eat birds. There are no certainties in life anymore.

I know. They're all evil. Those goddamn animals, the ones that we have anthropomorphized into these beautiful creatures that exist solely on the power of love. Yeah. Yeah. They did some sort of a study where they were capturing certain birds with nets. And they had set the nets up and the would run into the nets and get caught. Well, the deer would just walk right up to the birds in the nets and just start eating them. Wow.

Just chewing them alive while they're in the net. So much for the innocent male deer. Because it wasn't like they were just testing, like trying it out. Like, is this food? No, they just went right to it. So deer apparently eat ground nesting birds all the time well being a ground nesting bird that looks like shitty human that's just bad evolution right there because it's like dog shit life what were you thinking you're a bird

what the hell are you doing on the ground that's just a bad idea don't you know how to put sticks and twigs in the trees you dumb fuck not that that helps a lot it's like where i live there's regularly almost on a monthly basis there's like some cute little birds nesting the eggs are hatching and everything and the hawk regularly come by and just reap the shit out of them and i find pieces of birds everywhere and it's pretty nasty yeah my friend tom was uh sitting out on his back porch he was uh one of the directors of news radio back in the day. Tom Saronis, great guy. And he was in Studio City. And he goes, I'm sitting on, he had this sort of Georgia accent.

I'm sitting on my porch, enjoying my coffee, and I see a dove, or some sort of a bird, maybe it was a dove, sitting on the fence. And then out of nowhere, a hawk comes and snatches that bird up and he goes and part of me felt lucky to see that right yeah lucky because it doesn't happen every day but it also like made you realize like it's hard out there for a tough word yes and birds eat birds that's another fucked up thing what's with that i never thought of. I saw, not so long ago, I was coming back home and I hear this bird just yapping away, just making this crazy noise. I'm like, what the hell? And I look up in the tree and I see this one bird just mad, just going.

And then I see that right next to it, like maybe 10 feet away, there's this hawk that has another bird in his mouth that look exactly like the one that's yelling. So this one is probably like saying, you son of a bitch are just eating my wife that's not right and it's like i was like man that's a rough life right there yeah hawks jack everybody yep everybody gets jacked except i saw once a youtube video of a hawk committing suicide by eagle decide to attack an eagle's nest and oh no it's not a good idea you see this eagle who's just like minding his business is this big bald eagle and then clearly before even the camera picks up because the camera i guess was set on the nest to capture whatever was going on there

you see this eagle just suddenly see something and buffs up like ready for the fight and next you see is this hawk coming in just fighting the eagle. And it lasts about six seconds as the eagle just go, whack, whack, and just rip the hawk to pieces. It's like, you know, I'm glad you beat all the other birds, but an eagle is an eagle. Step away. You're beginning to overestimate your skills here, man. It got drunk.

Yeah. That drunk started to take on an eagle. Maybe ate some fermented berries or something. That fucking eagle, they think they are all that. I'm going to show them right now right now and yeah that did not work it's interesting that birds fly and flocks right like canadian geese and ducks and sparrows but not the ones that eat meat no the ones that eat meat you're on your own bitch yep you know there's probably this uh competition something about that flesh somebody eating that meat just changes the whole dynamic of the situation the ones that eat the

meat speaking of which after seeing your instagram picture of your elk dinner i'm like i want in i'm gonna be knocking on the rogan's house i got some help for you fuck i wish i had gone to the i have to get some but i have a freezer in the back. I'll hook you up. Next time I see you, I'll bring you some elk steaks. Beautiful. You'll love it. I'll love it.

I'll teach you how to cook it too. It's a little different because there's very little fat, so you have to cook it quick. The easiest to cook, I'll give you some ground elk is the easiest to cook, like elk burgers. Super high protein too. It's like, I think it's 22 grams of protein per pound, which is like way more than domestic beef. Right. It's like between, I think the highest is elk and the second highest is moose. I think those are the highest of that type of animal that you can get.

But it's really delicious too, man. So good. I love it. So good for you too. And you don't have to feel guilty about factory farming and all that other. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if you're going to eat meat, might as well. It's better that wild and had a good life.

And that's it. You know, factory farming sucks. Have you ever seen an eagle in the wild? Yeah. Wild to see, right? When you see one in real life, you're like, God, those things are big. In South Dakota. Yeah, I've seen them.

South Dakota? Yeah. There's a crazy video online from Alaska of this kid and his whole family is their lawn is covered with bald eagles and they were throwing out fish.

They had like some salmon, so they had filleted the salmon and then they had the bottoms, the ribs and the heads and all that stuff. And they had thrown it out for these eagles. And their fucking lawn is just overwhelmed with bald eagles. So we like to think of bald eagles as being something extremely endangered and protected. Alaska is a different story.

It's a totally different story. They're protected in some places, but in Alaska they're not protected. I mean, not that they're not protected, I should say. They're endangered in a lot of places, but they're not endangered in Alaska. They're protected in some places. Right. But in Alaska, they're not protected. I mean, not that they're not protected, I should say, they're endangered in a lot of places, but they're not endangered in Alaska. They're still protected. Yeah,

I know. Here it is. Like, look at all these. No way. Yeah. So this, what's the name of this video,

Jamie? It says, 1 p.m. on a summer night in, how is that a summer night? It's 11 p.m. Oh. You can't see the other one.

I was like, you inbreds. It's not night, just It's 11 p.m. Oh. You can't see the other one. I was like, you inbreds. It's not night just because it's p.m. But look at all these eagles, man. And the ones that aren't black with white, those are the immature ones. Those are the young ones. And sometimes those young ones are fucking enormous, man. Yeah, they don't look small, that's for sure. No, they're all over this guy's lawn.

Yeah. And they throw, like, these buckets of fish out for them. But they have, you know, eagles all over the place up there. Yeah. In California, we have some eagles still. We have golden eagles. They still find them. But they're just not, for whatever reason, not nearly as common as they are up there in Alaska.

I guess it's also probably because they have a lot of food up there with all the salmon. Yeah. The salmon runs. This is just one part of the video. This video is pretty long. But see, they're sitting around waiting for this guy to chuck fish heads for them. It's just an amazing animal this just animal this this flying raptor that really is probably

exactly like what the dinosaurs are like it's fascinating when they find more and more evidence that many dinosaurs had feathers and i think there's really probably not much difference between some birds like eagles, and some dinosaurs. And then they know that some birds, even birds that lived fairly recently, like the terror birds, they were these large, flightless, six-foot, seven-foot tall birds. He's going to go for the head. Look at him. He's like, should I get that head?

I want to get that head, but that fucking dude with the camera. dude with the camera he's thinking about it look at his little baby steps pussy back it out pussy no head for you faggot he's swooping in trying to get a lot of it's like yeah there it is this one is more mature yeah he's got a little bit more confidence jack there you go i love it i love they just swoop in and grab it. God damn, they're awesome animals. I find the world of nature to be unbelievably beautiful and exciting and crazy, but for whatever reason, I'm way more thrilled by the predators. Yeah.

When I see things like this, when I see, like, raptors, that's what excites me. If I see, like, some sparrows or something like that, it's pussy-ass bitch birds. We can relate more in the sense of, you know, as human beings, we have, you know, hunting and gathering has been, what, 95% of the time we've been around.

It's what we did. It's what has been the norm for human beings for the longest period of time yeah but there's just something about dangerous things i want to show you this picture that somebody sent me um uh this uh family friend has um uh chickens and they if you caught a bobcat eating their chickens look at this fucker jamie yeah you know hold it up to the camera, see if people can see it. This is like, I think they live in Woodland Hills.

Yeah. They're so sort of far away from here at all. That's what's trippy is that, you know, now for the longest time I live closer to the water. Now that I'm living inland, I'm kind of close to Glendale to the hills up in Eagle Rock and stuff. It's crazy the stuff that you find running around in the middle of houses. You see everywhere. Skunks, foxes, raccoons. The other day was fucking hilarious.

I'm coming back home. I was teaching a night class. So I come back home. It's probably like 10.30 p.m. or something. I arrive. I'm walking through my garden. It's pretty pitch black. And just maybe 20 feet to my right, I hear just something growling at me, right?

And I don't know. It completely skipped my rational brain. There was no thought in my mind. The next thing I hear is this meaner, heavier growl. And I realize, oh, wait, that's me. It's me growling at whatever other fucking thing was there. What was it? Just pissed off, right?

I never know because whatever the other thing was decided, okay, you're fucking crazier than me, so I believe it because I had it. I honestly don't think he was anything big. I think he was probably like some pissed off raccoon trying to show that they are tough and they are not really. I don't think he was any. Raccoons will fight you though. Because coyotes wouldn't growl.

If they want you, they come after you, but they are not going to growl. And they don't because they are small, so they mind their business. Mountain lion wouldn't, and it's very rare anyway. So it's probably a stupid raccoon or something. Yeah, he probably got too close to his garbage stash. Yeah, exactly. And he was all trying to... Yeah, this was a bobcat.

This fucking crazy, mangy-looking, creepy animal. And like I said, this is like real close to where the studio is. And this guy had a chicken coop, and this thing figured out how to where the studio is and this is a guy had a chicken coop and this thing figured out how to get in his chicken coop and was eating one of his chickens in his coop and found it what creepy looking face on that fucker look at that looks like a mean bastard yeah oh he's out there earning yeah he's earning his keep oh yeah he's not getting any welfare in the form yeah nobody's handing yeah giving him shit. How big do bobcats get? They get like 30 or 40 pounds, right?

They're pretty big. Yeah, but I would imagine a coyote is bigger, somewhere around there. I bet coyotes don't fuck with bobcats. Probably not. Yeah, I bet it's too much work. I mean, they probably could kill them if they got a bunch of them together, but it probably tastes like shit. Right.

It's probably like chewing a shoe. Yeah, exactly. It's like, it's all muscle. There's no softness. You know what apparently tastes good? Is mountain lion. Really? Yeah. I know this guy in Colorado.

In Colorado, they're pretty... There's a bunch. They're good about taking care of them, too. They have mountain lion seasons, and they try to keep the populations down. You know, some people argue saying that they're killing too many, and now you shouldn't kill them, populations down. And, you know, some people argue saying that they're killing too many and this and that. You shouldn't kill them.

But there needs to be some sort of a balance. Otherwise, they start appearing on people's lawns and killing people's animals. Like California has a real problem because they don't allow people to hunt them. And they have a lot of coyotes or a lot of mountain lions. And that's one of the reasons why the deer population in California is so low. They're up, of course. Yeah. And some people like it that way they think well that's the natural balance really shouldn't have that many deer around and ultimately i mean i can see that point where it's probably better to have a lot of mountain lion than it is a lot of lyme disease or ticks and a lot of deer slamming into cars like you do in places that don't have high mountain lion populations you

know like michigan or something like that where they have a lot of them. But what the fuck is my point? That we should eat mountain lions. Oh, they taste good. These guys that I know that hunt them in Colorado. And I said, really? I'm like, what does it taste like? And he goes, it's a lot like pork.

It tastes like pork loin. Then you take the backstrap from a mountain lion and they roast it. That's weird because usually the big muscler predators are not excited what you think of what you want to eat. Apparently it tastes really good. They said it tastes really good. Like this one guy that I was talking to, it's one of his favorite meats. He said it tastes just like a pork roast. They make it with like a blueberry sauce.

I'm getting nature school today. I found out that giraffes are cunts, that deer eat birds, that you can eat a mountain lion. You know, all sorts of goodies. There's all sorts of things to be learned out there about the wild natural world. You know, it's just,

like I said, there's something about the predators that I find just unbelievably fascinating. And I think it's because they have to be so explosive and so quick and so dangerous in order to get what they want to get. They can't just walk around and chew on grass. Like cows, nobody gets excited when they see a cow

because it's just, even if it wasn't so common, they're fucking boring. Like buffalo, they're the same, but at least they have cool hair. Yeah, exactly. They make some grunting sounds that are... Yeah, buffaloes are cool. I ended up once in the middle of a herd of buffalo in Custer State Park in South Dakota. Really?

Where I took like... They have, you know, the irregular roads that you can take with the car. Then they have some dirt roads that you can still take with the car. So I was kind of off the beaten path and all of a sudden I find myself in the middle of like probably 300 buffaloes. So I kind of stop the car, wait there, and they are going everywhere around me, right?

There's like from one side to the car, the other in front of me, behind me. And they are big, powerful animals. You know, you see see them you're praying not to piss them off because they are solid you know they don't mess around and he was awesome though i mean once i figure okay these guys don't want to fuck with me they just want to move around me and they don't care he was great because you see the all the calves running after they're beautiful they're really awesome animals and yeah it that's the thing with all wild species are cooler than all

the domesticated species tend to be dumber tend to be a lot like oh somebody's gonna bring me food anyway yeah in the wild you die you know you need to be on it's like when you see a dog and you see a coyote coyotes are silent you don't hear them make a damn noise you see them and you're like oh is that a dog and you know in three seconds you know it's not a dog because the way they move the way they it's a whole different game most dogs are all dumb and happy and they're like oh i'm here i'm doing they are way noisier it's uh those are sneaky yeah the wilder version is always uh you know you don't cut it if you're if you're not smart in the world it's a hard hard life. It's a hard life. And they have this air about them. They're just trying to catch something, trying to sneak it around.

The first time I saw a coyote was in Burbank in 1994 when I first moved here. I was staying at the Oakwoods. The Oakwoods, they have these pre-furnished apartments. That's where I lived. And I was driving to my place and I saw this dog on the road and another dog next to him. And I was like, oh, and I saw this dog on the road and another dog next to him and I was like oh shit that's a wolf yeah and I realized like oh that's a coyote like that's a live coyote and then I realized like those are wild coyotes and they're just wandering through Burbank like how fucking strange that they can just exist on the streets yeah like I didn't know

that they I figured if you lived in the rural areas you'd encounter them but I didn't know that they... I figured if you lived in the rural areas, you'd encounter them, but I didn't realize that they had actually gone deep, deep, deep into the cities in search of cats and shit. Big time. I found one in my yard not so long ago, and it was getting a bit too comfortable. It was just kind of roaming around, around. At first, you're like, oh, this is so cool.

I can't believe I'm seeing this. After a while, you're getting a little too comfortable in my backyard. Especially because you're a kid. And I walked out and, you know, so the coyotes start moving away. And then I realized, what the hell am I doing? I'm putting a wild animal with his back against the fence.

That can be a good idea. But that was my sweet illusion because my idea of the fence, the coyote took a look at me and was like, you call these a fence? It was like probably a good six foot fence. And he just jumped it in one thing without even just it's like these will keep out a dog those stupid things you may keep around but me i got something else going on and i was like okay wild animal are whole different game but yeah yeah i had a coyote kill one of my chickens hop my fence like it was

nothing really yeah i watched him hop the fence with the chicken in his mouth. I was like, wow. They're powerful. Motherfucker. Yeah. Well, when chickens brood, you have to remove them from their regular nest because they'll sit in the nesting box and they'll pull their feathers off

and they get sick and they can do it for like a month and a half at a time. So what you got to do is you got to put them in a small cage for a couple days where they have to stand on a rail. they have to clutch and sit on this rail and you do that for a couple of days and then they'll get over their brooding instincts and get normal again. It's just a cycle because they're not having sex. Oh, is that what it is? Because they're not having sex. When you eat an egg, I didn't know this until really late in life,

but an egg- Got you ready for a new piece of information. Let's go. I thought an egg would become a chicken. This is how retarded I am. I thought the only way that a chicken makes an egg is if she gets fucked by a rooster and then an egg comes out and then they sit on the egg

and it becomes a chicken and you just got to get the egg before the chicken hatches and you cook it. That's not the case. That's my understanding of it, so please enlighten me now. They actually lay eggs all the time with no males involved whatsoever. So I have 22 chickens.

I have no males. They're all females, and they lay usually, if not an egg a day, at the very least an egg every other day. Close, okay. And those eggs will never be chickens. Never. So people that are vegetarians that don't eat eggs, you're really silly. Because it's animal protein that doesn't hurt anybody.

These chickens, they lay these eggs whether you like them or not. And if you don't eat them, they just rot. Right. You can just, you know. But these chickens, I would take them when they were brooding, and then I'd put them in this other box, and the other box was outside of their coop, and it was fairly secure,

but this coyote had figured out how to tip it over and got the chicken, and he had them in his mouth, and I watched him hold it in his mouth and run through my yard with it in his mouth. I'm like, this motherfucker, and I opened the door thinking like maybe I would be able to get to him before he could jump the fence with the chicken. Nope. Not even close.

Just leapt over it like it was nothing. Boing. Exactly. Their ability is amazing. And a mountain lion, way crazier. They can just do ridiculous shit. They can jump like 12-foot fences. That would freak me out.

In the wild, the mountain lion, if you don't have any weapons in New York, that's not a good thing. Yeah, that's scary shit. Definitely scary shit. There's a video of this guy hiking, and he's hiking, and as he's hiking, this mountain lion's just sitting there staring at him, watching him. He's on this trail, and he starts making

noise and smacking sticks against the ground, but it's like, that guy probably came super close to getting eaten. Yep. And if he was smaller, especially, if he was like a small woman. Yep. Yeah. There was a case a few years ago in Griffith Park.

There was some lady got eaten by a mountain lion while hiking. I'm not surprised. Yeah. They're out there. There's a lot of them. They track quite a few of them but i guess when it comes to large big predators it's probably one of the best ones to have around because you know they they have plenty of shit they eat right they they keep away from people

for the most part but it is weird that we just not only do we want to help them like they're they're setting up these they're like bridges that go across the highway. Because one of the ways that mountain lions die is trying to cross the highway and try to cross the 101 and they get nailed. I say fuck them. They're too stupid. They're so stupid. Learn how to cross traffic. Dumb fucking cat.

They're so stupid. You run into traffic. It's not a cat that needs to be around that's that's nature's way of thinning the herd i mean there's a lot of them you know we don't really need to protect them that much they need to spend millions of dollars building a bridge you know how about clean up skid row how about work on those animals there's when i was um i like to go to big bear because you know it's only two hours away from here or something. But it's awesome. It's like a whole other environment. It's beautiful.

The trees, everything. So I like to go out there. And the place where I usually go, I was chatting with some neighbors and they were telling me, yeah, you know, these days bears have stopped coming around. I'm like, why? What's up? He's like, oh, because a mountain lion moved into the neighborhood, and even they are freaked out by him. Really?

Apparently, they're like, I mean, the bears in Big Bear are not this huge. They're black bears. Exactly. And apparently, this mountain lion is extra aggressive and decided, the bears decided, let's move to a nicer neighborhood. Oh, so one gangster mountain lion moved in? Yeah, exactly. And so I was hiking around, and it was probably 6 p.m and i'm

like do i really want to do this at this time this this does not seem like the best plan in the world right now uh no weapons yeah i don't like this too much yeah you got to go with like a fucking full hockey outfit on yeah maybe a football pads and some chain mail yeah they're not gonna get you though they have things to eat. They have plenty of things to eat. Most of the time, mountain lions don't want to have anything to do with people. Yeah, of course. It's the sick old ones that they need food so bad that they're willing to take a chance on a person.

Of course. But for the most part, even if you do, like, the natural selection process has probably eliminated people from their diet because every mountain line that chose to eat a person was killed. Exactly. So they somehow or another. They know. Yeah, they know. Don't fuck with those bipedal. But if they think they can get away with it.

Why not? Why not? But, you know, as beautiful as they are, you know, they are, they're terrifying and they're ferocious and everything. As they are. They are. They're terrifying and they're ferocious and everything. But I would be way more thrilled to see one of those than I would to see something that doesn't kill things.

Right. It's weird, right? I think it goes back to the same thing we were talking about regarding history. Why is it that we're fascinated with that? And we are. There's no denying it. And you would be bullshit to pretend. No, I like peace and mellow and I like to see people shake hands.

And it's like, there's a beauty to some mellow, peaceful stuff, but we dig, I mean, we like you. Why do we like fight it? It's what it is, right? It's, that's the game. It's in nature, we like it. We like it among, you know, history. Half of it is about the conflict and the wars.

Yeah. It's all about that stuff. Conflict and consequences. If you were in the ocean and you saw a big marlin, like, wow, that'd be cool. Wow, look at that marlin. But if you saw a shark eat the marlin, it'd be way more exciting. If you see a whale, whales are cool to see. They're beautiful to see.

But a killer whale is way cooler than a regular whale. Yeah. There's that something's going to happen here. Something exciting and dramatic is going on. A shark. A shark is way cooler than a regular fish. Yeah, there's something about those type of animals. I would love to go to Africa on a safari if it wasn't for malaria and Ebola.

If it wasn't for those 57 reasons. Yes, that would be. Fucking parasites and all kinds of crazy shit. I would love to go to Africa just to the off chance of seeing a lion take something down on a safari. Right. I would love to go and see that. I'd love to witness that.

I wonder how often that takes place when you go on one of those safaris. I wonder how often you actually see something get jacked. Yeah, even just because they are hunting doesn't mean they're going to be successful because, of course, a bunch of times you fail. And I think that's part of the interest in conflict is there's something's going to happen and the two sides, whoever the two sides are, are trying opposite things. So there's this conflict of will and somebody's going to get their way and somebody isn't.

And so there's that element of excitement that almost make you want to bet on it. Like, who's going to win? Who's going to step up with their A game and succeed? And who's going to fall miserably? It's cool when you watch fights. It's cool when you watch anything.

It's like, even if it's not a fight, if it's the lion chasing the gazelle, it's like there's even with not a fight if the lion chasing the gazelle is like can the gazelle speed leave the lion in the dust and just leave him pissed off and hungry or is it gonna there's that question there it's like let's see how they play their cards when life is on the line you know yeah and that contemplation of how the outcome is gonna go down like what was that that for whatever reason is one of the most compelling things that people can watch yep that's we're so strange in that regard that that that is like one of the most interesting things for people uh-huh I mean that's why they're the Romans I mean when they were

feeding lions or Christians right that's what that was all about it's like to see how long that guy can last in there. Just to gross out your listeners, check this out. This is a nasty story that I did not know about. So what would happen was after they would have the beast either fight each other or they would have the lion seat Christians or something. Then a typical thing is that after the end of the day when a whole bunch of these animals have been killed in one fight or another,

the Roman emperors, to kind of look cool and popular with the crowds, would then distribute the meat to all the poor people of Rome. So all the animals killed in the arena would then be eaten by all the poorest people in Rome as a freebie. Because you're a poor person, and you're more likely than not, a lot of people in Rome were pretty close to. Because you are a poor person and you're more likely than not,

a lot of people in Rome are pretty close to starving a lot of the times, nothing gets to be thrown away. You eat anything, right? You eat the whole animal, whatever they give you, you eat it. So what does that mean?

That means that among other things that would end up as weird, exotic dish on a Roman table, sometimes you get also the interiors of animals that have just been eating people. So through via second hand, you're also eating people since you're eating stomach contents of a lion that just got killed in the arena.

And that lion just finished feeding on a Christian. So you're having a lion Christian burger for yourself. This is just something you just found out about um I made three four years ago I was doing some research on gladiators and games and all of that that I was like and I started picking that same information and a bunch of sources I'm like okay so this is not bullshit this is uh so is that something they discussed in the history text like they discussed that people would talk about accidentally eating people or like, how would they say it? Yeah. Essentially they were like, Hey, people ate the whole thing. There was no, nothing was thrown away. The whole thing was. And, uh, I guess, I don't know if there were primary sources that refer to these that were reported. I forget the exact, you know,

the smoking guns that say, yeah, this is what happened. But I remember seeing it in enough secondary sources to say, okay, there's something to that story. I didn't know there was any history at all of people eating lions. Yeah. I mean, you wouldn't as a choice, but if you are a starving plebeian in Rome, it's nothing else. And the emperor say, look what a nice guy I am. I'm giving you a lion stomach. Please have fun. That is the civilization that we always point to when we talk about excess leading to chaos leading to decline of civilization we always talk about rome but isn't the united states way more fucked up and decadent than rome ever was except for feeding christians to lions other than, if you look at the overall numbers of death.

Yeah, there's a lot of strange stuff going on. Shit that we've done to the environment. Yeah. Shit that we've done. I mean, just a sheer number of human beings you're dealing with. Yeah. 350, what is it, somewhere at 350 million. Yeah, it's a lot.

It's crazy that they got to the point where they were entertaining themselves by bringing in gigantic predators. Like, how far is Rome from Africa? How the fuck did they get lions? Yeah, they would have hunters in Africa trap them. How'd they trap them? I guess set up a bait on something. They would fall in a big pit where where they can climb their way out. And then I don't know exactly how they get a cage on them.

And then rapid. I'm sure a lot of people died to provide the lions for Rome. And then you ship them by boat through Sicily. Then they send up to Rome. then they send up to Rome and they did it to a level that they say that the animal population of North Africa changed completely because of the Roman games because they were killing thousands upon thousands of them that they literally they drove some species extinct in North Africa at least in that part you know what the fuck yeah that's on such a massive scale they were doing it all All for the games.

And the Roman, the guys were setting up the games. They were kind of like, remember when Pride was on and there was this wacky Japanese matchmaking where they would have like, let's throw the 600 pound hood against the 150 pound. Let's see what happens. You know, it's a Roman's matchmakers were like Japanese matchmakers. They had those ideas. It's like, I wonder what happens if we throw a lion and the bear. Let's see what, you know it's a romance matchmakers were like japanese matchmakers they had those ideas it's like i wonder what happens if we throw a lion and the bear let's see what you know let's try they would do that stuff was there a civilization like that before them or did they invent these kind of games probably the gladiatorial stuff was ancient um in greece and some people think about the etruscans as well. There may have been some origin there.

Because the story about the gladiators is that it started out as human sacrifice, that they would do it rather than... Originally, they probably sacrificed somebody on the grave of some important person because the idea was that their blood was feeding the spirit of the dead. Then probably somebody said,

hey, how about instead of sacrificing me, I give you entertainment so we have a nice big fight. I get the other prisoner of war. We go at it. One of us die. It doesn't have to be me. I have at least a shot. One of us, the blood will feed the dead.

And the other one got to walk home alive. And they decided, hey, cool. It's like we got entertainment on top of the sacrifice. That's one of the popular theories. Do you think it was the prisoner's idea or do you think it was like some, I would think there would more likely be some sadistic ruler's idea. I mean, if I'm the guy, yeah, there's that probably. You have a chance. I throw one sword into the cage.

That could be. But at the same time, if I'm the one about being sacrificed, I'm like, hey, I'm going to make it fun for you guys. Just bring me somebody else. Yeah. Oh. But yeah, either case, it started out probably as a religious thing, and then it evolved into, oh, this is fun. Screw the religion, but just let's have a good time.

Well, we always point to the decadence of the Roman Empire as being like the pinnacle of excess, right? Yeah. That's how we look at it. But then you go to Disneyland, and you see people on scooters everywhere you go. They've eaten themselves into these gelatinous beanbag-style human beings. I was just at Disneyland.

Every time I go, there are more scooters. Oh, yeah. It's freaky. There's more and more people just getting so big that they can't walk. Yeah, let's make it easier for people to eat themselves to that because that's what we want. Yeah, let's make it easier for people to eat themselves to that because that's what we want. In fact, one of the reasons why I think it's interesting for many people in the U.S. to study Rome and there's this fascination for Rome is because the parallels are not that hard to see. You know, you see that super powerful civilization that keep growing and growing in power and eventually hit the tipping scale of excess gets more and more. People have a comfier life, so they do get softer. And then you are getting ready for the fall in the face of somebody else, tougher and stronger, who come from a harsher life.

It's the same stuff as the Roman Empire, right? Right, right, right. You eventually stop sending your guys to fight your wars because I don't want my kids to go to war. That's what we did. It's our heritage, but I don't want my kids to go to war. That's what we did. It's our heritage, but I don't want to do that anymore. Let's hire some poor motherfucker to fight for us. In the process, your civilization gets

weak until eventually the other motherfucker you're hiring doesn't want to fight for you anymore. They turn on you and your civilization falls. We never learn. No, it's a tough balance between living too harshly, where, yeah, you become this

war machine, but that's a sucky life, and living too softly, when it's a real delicate game. And I mean, you know how it is with your kids. You want things easy for them. You want to make everything as easy, as pleasant as possible, but if you make it too too easy you turn them into wimps and so it's if you make it too hard they'll

hate your guts because it's like fuck you you're needlessly making my life hard so it's like that very delicate game of making feel people loved giving them support helping them when needed but then also teaching them how to be strong and And that does not happen through softness. It doesn't happen through making everything easy for them. I've had that conversation many times with Brian Callen, where he and I were talking about one of the reasons why Brian lived a very strange life. He went to boarding school for a lot of the time. He grew up all over the world.

He lived in many different countries. And he just faced a lot of adversity because he couldn't make friends he was constantly moving and because of that he's this really interesting guy and everyone that we know that's really interesting had some sort of a fucked up life and yet we don't want our kids to have you don't want you to be interesting I guess you know maybe what's that weird. You don't want your kid to be interesting, I guess. You know, maybe, what's that Chinese proverb with the curse? May you live in interesting times. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. It's, yeah, it's, I wonder if that's the only way to create someone or to engineer the life of a human being that has character. Like, there's got to be ways that you can teach them through difficult tasks or through athletic endeavors. Like, I mean, my life was definitely fucked up up until the time where I was in high school. But all of my, I think my real character development, all of who I became, like the harder parts was when I was in a really nice neighborhood. I lived in Newton, which is like a really nice suburb of Boston. But it was that was when I was doing martial arts. That's when I was competing. So I like consciously or purposely did something really difficult because that was what I was interested in.

I wasn't thinking, oh, this difficult thing will make me a real interesting man when I grow up, and this will provide me with all this character development. No, that was what I really wanted to do for whatever reason. I was compelled to it. And then the byproduct of that was I developed character. I developed the ability to push myself and discipline. But I did it without having to go through horrible neighborhoods. I mean, people beat me up in the gym, but nobody beat me up having to go through horrible neighborhoods. I mean,

people beat me up in the gym, but nobody beat me up in the street. Nobody robbed me. I didn't get shot or stabbed, but I developed character in a way that's similar to what someone would probably go through if they went through some really bad, violent times. And I think you nailed it right there because you're bringing up something that's not... You're going to get tough because we're going to throw you in the street and you're going to fight every day against some crazy kids with knives and you survive. You're going to be tough. It's like, well, that's a little. But at the same time, it's not. Let's have you sheltered. And I think martial arts in that regard is perfect.

You know, combat sports are great because they do teach you toughness, but they're still within a relatively protected environment. Nobody's going to pull out a gun on you. Nobody's going to, you know, it's tough, but it's civilized stuff. You know, it's not throw people to the walls and pray for the best. So it's a nice medium. And I think the more we make our life easier, which we want to, we do need to engage in things that keep the toughness alive, at least to some degree. You know, it's like you're not going to be tough the way the one guy who survived out of a hundred was being thrown to the wolves. But at the same time, you still have that muscle that is not completely gone because

you are just all about, because then now you end up with people who are very pleasant, very nice, very sweet and complete wimps and don't have a spine. And then it's like, that's not the solution either. Yeah, they have no resiliency. They don't have any experience in overcoming difficult situations. I oftentimes think about that when I think about animals because, you know, I have dogs and I have cats

and my animals have zero. I mean, I guess, I mean, they would kill something if they could, but they don't but they're not mean at all. At all. But if you see a wild animal, an animal that has to get its own food, they're so different. And the only way you can get an animal that's tame is you have to provide them with all their food. And that you have to bypass all of their natural predatory instincts that every dog has and every cat has. And there's a way to bypass it. You just got to give them steady food and love, steady food and

love, steady food and love. And in doing that, you quote unquote domesticate them, right? And that's kind of also what's happening with people. You know, what we are doing with human beings is turning people into these fluffy sort of kitty cat type people. Exactly. Where if everything goes wrong and you find yourself on a deserted island, you can go feral. Right. And you try to figure out a way to survive. You're eating raw mussels and chewing on roots and stuff.

But the reality is what you've become is a domesticated person. what you've become is a domesticated person. If you ever see like when they catch people, they find people that have been living in the wild by themselves. It's only been a few times that they're found, like actual wild feral people, but they resemble feral animals in a lot of ways. That's how you survive. Who does live in the wild and succeed?

Wild animals. A human being who's going to do that is going to be along those lines. But what we value from people, a lot of what we value is domesticated people. Like what I like is people that I go up to, I hug them, I know they're not going to try to bite my neck and eat me. You know what I mean? I tend to. I'm weird that way as well.

Yes, I tend to enjoy the same thing. No, it's like anything is a balance. And the balance is not 50-50, maybe 90-10. But you still need to have a little of that other side. It's always that there's a, once you go 100-0, then you really lost something. It's like where exactly is that balance in a desirable place where you are a strong person, but you're also pleasant and sweet and nice and you can do all the things that we want in a civilized

conversation without you being weak because that's the other aspect when people lack the tough side then I don't buy their niceness either because it's like you're nice because that's the only thing you can be you don't even have the option not to be nice because you don't know how you don't know

what it takes to instead step up and be extra assertive and extra tough You don't even have the option not to be nice because you don't know how. You don't know what it takes to instead step up and be extra assertive and extra tough. You don't have... So your niceness is not a choice. It's the only language. It's a survival mechanism. You're like a cat that shows their belly. Right. Whereas if somebody

doesn't have to be that way and chooses to be that way, then I buy it. Then it's legit because you're choosing that. Right. If someone is generous because they want to be that way and chooses to be that way, then I buy it. Then it's legit because you're choosing that. Right, right. If someone is generous because they want to be generous, not because they have to be generous. Yeah, it's a strange fine line. Why I've been focusing on this and obsessed with this lately is I've gotten this weird idea in my head, not necessarily weird, but this inescapable thought about human beings domesticating themselves with supermarkets.

And that supermarkets are in many ways a lot like serving a cat a bowl of cat food every day. And that in removing the equation of having to go out and cut the wheat and pick the vegetables and kill the animals that you eat and instead just show up at the supermarket, buy it, throw it in the cart, that what we've done is we've developed a system of domestication and the supermarket or the fast food restaurant or wherever you're getting your food, in a lot of ways serves the same purpose that a master does to a pet and that we're slowly domesticating the human animal

in that way. I think there's a lot of parallels there. And that's one of the reasons I'll also, I think why people get angry, even people that eat meat when they find other people hunt. Yeah. I think that it's, they're reacting to this path that they're on and it's a path of domestication, even if it's's irrational even if they eat meat and I've had the most irrational which is people that are strict veg vegetarians or vegans but they have animals they feed meat to

it's like yeah yeah that doesn't know I know and it's a lot of this stuff make no sense no it's like it doesn't make sense but the rationalizations I feel like they form such a common pattern that you almost have to take into consideration the fact that those those rationalizations may in fact be natural protective mechanisms for this domestication process to take place yeah and i think that as we become more and more peaceful and more and more civilized. Like I would say, and I think everyone agrees that this is probably the safest time for human beings to live ever. Well, you're a historian, you know a lot about history. Yeah. You would probably say that, right? Yeah. I mean, when you look at so much of

human history, there's always the guys from over the hill who are going to come up and slaughter your family at the drop of a dime. So now the fact that most people in many countries in the world are not in that situation, it's kind of unique. It's awesome. It's not something that in most of recorded history you can find evidence of. You don't find any evidence, right? If you think about a cruise ship pulling up to your harbor and a bunch of people get out, you welcome them now. Strangers from a strange land. And you're like, oh, this is great. They're going to come over here and they're going to buy my trinkets.

You know, they're going to buy a poncho, you know, whereas before they were going to come with fucking swords and kill your family. I saw, did you watch the TV series Vikings? No, I didn't. It's pretty badass. Really? Yeah, I like it. See, I'd never heard anything about it.

Really? No, it's good. It's cinematography is awesome. The script is pretty good. There's this one scene that I was watching from the third season where there's this group of Vikings standing outside of Paris. So you see Paris in the distance, all the shape, and it's beautiful. And you see these pissed off, semi-naked Vikings with torches, and they are starting to scream. It's axe time.

It's sword time. And, you know, it's axe time, it's sword time. And, you know, it's like the preparation. That's what they're screaming? It's axe time and it's sword time? Yeah, exactly. Wow, it's hammer time. What about hammer time? No, hammer they skip.

Stop. Hammer time. And that's a lot of human history right there. That's a lot of human history. People that have and people that have not, and the have nots show up at the gates. Yep, and they are hungry, and they are more motivated than you because they are hungry. It is amazing that this is one of the only times that we've ever recorded where people show up in places where they don't know anybody and they're welcome.

Yeah. Yeah. You're welcome all over the world. Yeah. I know Chris Ryan has. You're welcome all over the world. Yeah, I know Chris Ryan has, there are many people who have the theory that like way, way, way in a distant past in hunting and gathering time, people were not more mellow. There was less war. And then there's the other campo that argues, no, no, but hunting and gathering times were crazy conflict.

It's just, it didn't happen that often because there were a few people, so they don't run into each other that much. But, and the reality is, I don't know who's right. I don't think either one is completely right in the sense that I don't think it was a peace and love scenario because that's not how human beings operate. And I don't think it was this model that only states can save you from violence because otherwise everybody's always killing each other. I don't necessarily think that's either.

But clearly, I mean, we do have evidence that people bash each other brains forever, you know, for a long time. How frequent that was, that's the question. And there are different schools of thought in that regard. And it's kind of hard to come up with a conclusive answer. But other than that scenario, which is so far in the past that we don't have that much solid evidence on, for much of the history that we do have records about yeah people do nasty shit to each other all the time yeah I think Chris is talking about tribal cultures that live you know indigenous people that live in the jungle and shit like that yeah I think when it's resource dependent I

think when there's a lot of resources and there's plenty of women to fuck yeah everybody's at Chris Ryan also he loves those polyamorous societies. Right. Who doesn't? I mean, I agree with him. It's like, I'm not. Yeah, he loves the concept of these cultures that existed that didn't have they weren't able to trace

lines of male paternity. So the entire villages would raise children. Which exists right now in some parts of the world. I mean, that's how some indigenous cultures still operate to this day. But yet there's also indigenous cultures like the ones in New Guinea, which are the sperm warriors of New Guinea, which is, you know that story, right? Remind me later. I know some of the insane fighting going on about what's up with the sperm warriors.

Awful, awful pedophilia they they would take children at a very young age and make them consume cum yep both in their ass and in their mouth and make you a real man yes yeah they call you the the they leave their parents and go stay with what they call their anus father jesus yeah there's oh god and they've been doing this for thousands of years. And this, for whatever reason, this became a style of living. Somebody was reeling

into little kids one day and said, you know what? The gods have spoken and this is how you make a real man. I'm getting a message from up on high. Yeah, and that's how we're going to do this

from now on. Yeah. Now, that's why, in fact, romanticizing it is silly, but at the same time, demonizing it is. And I don't mean this because, yeah, this is fucked up. But I mean, tribal culture. There's great stuff there. There's awful stuff there.

There's human stuff there. Right. There's the whole spectrum of it all. And I do like what Chris is doing in terms of I don't know if it's historically 100% right in that debate about how cool or not so cool ancient tribal societies were, but I do like where Chris is going with it in terms of

what is that we can learn either from the actual history or from something that sounds cool that may not exactly have happened that way, but it gives us an idea, because ultimately who the fuck cares what they did 10,000 years ago? It's about what you can do now. So if that gives you an idea of what you can do now to make life better, I don't care whether it really happened or not. If it makes life better now, I'm happy. I'll take it. That's a really good point. That's a really good

point. What is possible now? I firmly believe now is the best time ever. I mean, I think we're incredibly lucky to live right now. And as long as we don't hit some sort of a natural disaster or someone fucks up and accidentally starts a nuclear war. Yep. I think this is a great time. It's not perfect, but there's nothing going to be perfect. No. We're talking about just the sheer numbers of humans.

You know, 20 people on an island with three girls, 17 men. You're going to have death. That's a given. I don't think one night goes by without. You hear China recently they changed their one child rule. Did they? Within the last few days. Really?

Yeah. That can go both ways. On one hand, the whole female infanticide was fucked up. On the other hand, China growing dramatically in population population that's not exactly a good thing either so well how are they gonna do it because there's only like 15 girls right exactly you guys fucked up like yeah this idea that you would only have men because the men would be able to take care of you well you you guys threw a monkey wrench in your whole generation. They sure did.

What a fucking cluster. Yeah, big time. Oh, can you imagine being a guy and you're growing up there and you're on that island with 17 dudes and three women? Like, what in the fuck? I know.

That's a shitty deal right there. Oh, it's got to be the worst. Trying to get laid as a man in China must be fucking hard. Yeah, I can see how that would not be easy. I would imagine people, high school, university, young males would be pretty pissed off. Condom shares fall after China abandons one child policy. Shares in companies that make, what is that, naappies, prams, and baby milk up. What is

a nap? Oh, I guess like baby stuff. Up on Friday after Beijing announces plans to change family planning laws. I just don't know how they're going to engineer their population. I mean, this was in response to overpopulation. That's why they decided to have a one child policy, but that's just not good when everybody wants a man. Yeah, exactly. They didn't think it through in that scenario. Because, I mean, I can see the idea. You have too many people, too few resources.

You get fucked up. You can't do that. But at the same time, now it's like, okay, nobody is going to have baby girls. Let's all have boys because that's what I want. There's this dumb dad that I talk to sometimes. So every now and then I get stuck talking to him. And he's just like, he has daughters and he wants sons. And I'm like, dude, your fucking daughters are healthy.

What is wrong with you? I have a friend who is a child that has severe autism and all these terrible behavioral disabilities. And he's a mess. I'm like, you're lucky. You're extremely fortunate. You have healthy children in America. You hit the goddamn lottery. And your dumb ass is whining that you don't have a son to play softball with.

And even then, why? Because you can't fucking teach a girl to play softball? Because that's not girly? I don't want to play softball because that's not girly? I don't want to play softball, maybe. You know, the idea that your son is an extension of you is one of the stupidest fucking attachments that some people have.

It's a human being. It's a human being. You're fortunate enough to be the parent of this human being. This idea that you're upset that it's one gender or another, just shut the fuck up, you monkey.

And that goes back to the stupid stereotypes of masculine and feminine, of what it means to be a man or a woman. gender or not just shut the fuck up you monkey and that goes back to the stupid stereotypes of masculine and feminine of what it means to be a man or a woman it's like of course there's genetic stuff and there's not that's a given you know there's not even an argument that some of it is nature but then there's also a bunch of it that is nurture and it is also how you raise and somebody may have a tendency going one way but if you teach them and you can balance it out in other ways you know it's

like to me even the most interesting people are the ones that have both that have you know the stereotypical sensitivity from the supposed to be female but they are also tough and who the hell said that being emotionally sensitive is only for women or that being tough is only for men i get bored with both people. Unless you have both, unless I can relate to you on multiple levels, it's boring. It can be, for sure. The typical girly girl is like,

Jesus, I'm out of here in three seconds. It's like this is killing me. It's so boring. But also the typical guy who breaks a beer bottle off his head burping watching football, that's not exactly, okay, that's great for about 10 minutes and then i'm out you know it's to me is like develop human beings that are strong and sensitive what the hell is wrong with that idea you know it's like yeah that's why one of the biggest problems growing up is if you're stuck in a neighborhood if you're stuck in a neighborhood and the people in your neighborhood are all stupid

and there's no one interesting to draw from there's no one to find that you can relate to. Like, I remember being a kid and, you know, you have a few good friends that you really enjoy hanging out with. And when they weren't around, you would hang out with dummies and you'd be like, oh my God, it's so taxing. If you, if you have the wrong, if you just by a roll of the dice find yourself in a neighborhood where people are prejudiced or ignorant or aggressively ignorant or aggressively prejudiced, you could just have a terrible time. You just want to stay home and be locked in your environment.

And I think until the internet came around, that was the biggest issue in children growing up. You were a subject to your environment or a victim of your environment sometimes, a product of your environment. That's why even what we're doing right now, the idea that somebody in Sweden can download and listen to what's happening, that's very... I mean, shit, I would have loved to grown up with that possibility of listening into conversation so that I'm not trapped into the immediate world that is in the few miles for where you are born

and where you are raised, but you get access. And then you realize, whoa, there are people out there who have a different way of thinking other than, I mean, think about even when TV came around and somebody in the middle of United States in a town of 5,000 people suddenly could see people who look different, hear a different conversation. It must have been the most freeing thing in the world.

Unless you were black. And you're like, where the fuck are all the black people? Yeah, they're all white. Until Sanford and Son came on the air. You're like, what in the fuck? There's got to be Jeffersons. Finally! But isn't that funny that in the 1950s,

all the advertisers, all the programmers thought, in order to attract people, we need to make the content as not controversial, like the most uncontroversial thing possible. We make it very square. We make it very safe. No sex, no violence. And you see what we are attracted to today is like 180 completely. It's like give me Spartacus with orgies and violence and that.

Yeah. It's suppression, right? Yeah. That's also interesting like advertisements. Like advertisements today like on the internet, like podcasts. This is a perfect example. No one has ever, when I do a podcast ad, say, don't swear or don't say something fucked up. I say fucked up things sometimes in these ads because I'm winging it.

Of course. But as long as I'm not saying something, when I say fucked up things, they're obviously jokes. Yeah. As long as I'm not saying anything that's actually racist or homophobic or sexist or anything like that, people are fine with it. And you could never have one of my ads on a television show. No way. But the people that watch a television show

are the same people that are going to download a lot of podcasts. Exactly. Like if someone's listening to Howard Stern in the morning, right, and they're hearing all this crazy shit, that's the same person that might watch the Big Bang Theory or America's Got Talent at night, and it's squeaky clean. Well, it's the same person that might watch the big bang theory or america's got talent at night and it's squeaky clean what's the same human being yeah exactly but for whatever reason they decide that this human being can accept it in you know in this form but can accept it in that form

right like you might you know you might watch something that's totally squeaky clean and the advertisers are but the same person might go to a rated R movie and watch crazy violence and death and some fucking horror film. It's, it's weird what we decide people can and cannot be subjected to, cannot be exposed to. Especially with nudity. Oh yeah.

If you show any kind of nudity automatically is the highest possible restriction because that's going to fuck up your brain, right? If you see a boob, now you're going to be screwed for life. It's like if you show any kind of nudity, automatically it's the highest possible restriction because that's going to fuck up your brain, right? If you see a boob, now you're going to be screwed for life. It's like, really? That's what you're scared to show your kids? Well, do you remember Vincent Gallo? No. What is Vincent?

Vincent Gallo. That's his name, right? Vincent Gallo, the actor? That's his name, right? Isn't it Vincent Gallo? Uh-uh. He was a very respected actor, like a really intense guy and he did this movie he produced it and started in it called i think it was called brown bunny and it was with this

chick chloe's i don't know how the fuck you say her name she's a very good actress excellent actress but they had a real sex scene in the movie and in this in the movie she sucks his cock like she really blows right and he comes in her face and on her mouth and it's real and people were fucking furious people that went to see the movie hated him and they were furious and it fucking tanked his career i mean tanked his career never even heard of that that's crazy well he's done some stuff since then but not much and he's done like some vodka ads, like some vodka commercials. But before that,

he was like this guy that was like this go-to guy. If you wanted this like really intense character and he's a very good actor. And just like a, you know, a guy who just decided, look, I'm going to take a crazy chance. Like,

look, we have these Quentin Tarantino movies where guys are getting their ears cut off, where they're taking these crazy chances with violence and Pulp Fiction where the guy gets shot in the head and the brains splatter all over the back seat and there's all these racial slurs being thrown around by white people to black people. This is all fine, but a guy getting his cock sucked in a movie

where you could see, like, if she dropped down to her knees and you only saw the back of her head and she was sucking his cock, that would be okay. Then it's fine. Then it'd be okay. I know. But to see his actual penis in her actual mouth for whatever reason, people were like, no fucking way. That's it for you, dude. We're done.

Yeah, that's. Yeah. That ripped me out. I always find it so weird. Meanwhile, everybody wants their dick sucked. Yeah. If you have a dick, you want it sucked. It is the one universal truth.

Because even if you're gay, you want it sucked by a guy. It applies anyway. If you're straight, you want it sucked by a girl. Everybody loves blowjobs. They're amazing. It's one of the greatest inventions that anybody ever figured out, was that if someone sucks your dick, it feels fantastic. But to watch it in a movie is somehow horrifically offensive

totally consensual we're not watching rape right we're watching a totally consensual sex act in a movie meanwhile the same people that were offended probably watch porn right of course but as long as the windows are closed and the shades are shut and the door is closed and no one can hear them then they can they can jerk off in their hypocritical world and they think it's okay. I don't remember if I mentioned that to you before or not because it cracks me up so much. But there was a study in Utah a few years ago where the way the Supreme Court had set up the obscenity laws, they basically said that it boils down to the standards of the community of what the community find obscene or not. And so in Utah, they were saying, well, we are a very conservative community.

So we want all the hotel chains in Utah to not be able to allow to use porn. They cannot sell, you know, it's like porn is the number one thing on the pay-per-view in hotels. They're like, nope, because it offends the standards of our community. So then they did this research and found out that porn consumption in Utah is actually way higher than most other places.

And they define what people say and what people do are completely different things sometimes. Yeah. And that's what I find. It goes back to that thing about being comfortable in your own skin. To me, it's like, look, you like porn. Yeah. Embrace it. Just accept it. It's

who you are. As long as you're not killing people, as long as you're not doing anything horrible to other human beings, don't put forward this image of what you think you should be when you're not that person. If you're not that person, there's a reason why. It probably is not that healthy for you. It's not the way you're built to be. It's not. There's something there. Deal with the reality. You know, deal with where you're at. And if you want to change yourself, then take a few baby steps away from that. But start accepting the fact that this is who you

are. This is what you like. This is what you don't. Then if you decide you want to change, you can work on the edges. You're not going to change dramatically because you don't change the essence of who you are. But you can, you know, smooth the edges if you really, really want. But that never happens unless you start with

realizing what it is that you are, and you stare at it and accept it for what it is, you know? It's interesting, too, because I think that a lot of what people are worried about is other people's perceptions of them. Yeah. And those same people are shielding their own reality from other people worried

about their perceptions they might all be into the same thing exactly you know exactly there's the book i sent you the other day the one that i left coming up i sent it to a while back and he was reading through and one thing that he was cracking up about is like man you have zero filter you know it's like the stuff you say about what you think what you that's not the kind of thing that most people would admit to you know that's the kind of stuff that it's uh especially most people who are professors right yeah never mind that exactly that's a big one in your world right yeah where does this image of how we are supposed to be and to me it's like that's such bullshit it's like be be a human

being about that do you feel extra freedom because you have podcasts and because you can you can express yourself through that and you can actually make money doing that too so it's it's you have these other outlets for expression yeah i mean i think i realized I had this really stupid idea for a long time that I could get a regular gig in academia as a good, serious professor. And then I could have also the space to do all the other stuff. And then I realized this was actually I remember being in my office one day after the realization that most academics don't like me sunk in. Most academics don't like you? Yeah. Why not?

Because, A, students like me which if they don't like them that means oh you must be too easy or too something or so the fact that i get along very well with students and that's not always the case with them that's usually strike against me and also when i was having this oh why is it that I don't like me? I don't understand. I kind of step outside and saw it from above. And it was, I mean, my office hours, I'm playing Eminem in my office. And around my neck are strapped gloves that I just used to spar with one of my students during a break. In my hand is my medical marijuana renewal. And I'm wondering, but why don't they like me?

I don't understand. And I'm just like, well, if they like you, there would be something weird in this situation. Right, right. You know, it's what do you expect? They are who they are. And that's fine. That's the way it is. But you can't expect to be just because you're polite and you open the door for people and you're, that's nice, but you're still a very different animal from what they are. And so, of course, they are not going to embrace you as one of their own. But there's a few guys like, I bet you and Thaddeus Russell,

if you were on the same staff, you'd get along great. Sure, sure, sure. There's a few, there's people out there that are... No, absolutely. And in fact, I'm not saying all people, all academics are all equally stiff, boring. That's not the case. There are some very cool people, but the culture, the general culture

of what you're supposed to fit in, it's a very stiff one. Do you feel like, I mean, you've been a professor for a while. Do you feel like the culture is shifting? The culture outside of academia shifts a lot faster than the culture inside. I think like all institutions, they tend to be the last places to change.

It's like when everybody else gets to accept something that maybe they will. It's kind of like politics, you know, where it's like after 99% of people in the U.S. will be pro-legalization of marijuana, then some politician will say, we'll do this really daring thing and try to, you know, it's not going to start from the inside because it's any establishment is built on keeping the status quo. So that's not where. So a lot of, if anything, a lot of academia I'm seeing is becoming more and more bureaucratic. There's more of do measurable things, do stuff that everything can be accounted for so we don't get sued, make sure to do.

There's a lot less flexibility and allowing people to kind of run the show as they like it because they're like, what if somebody runs it the wrong way and then we get sued? Which, sure, that is a concern, but you're also eliminating the possibility of people doing cool things in the process. And so I don't know. I don't see tremendously good changes in that regard. What about the changes as far as political correctness or the ideologies on campus? They seem to be more extreme and more left-wing now than they have at any time in the most recent history.

At least, obviously, I'm not in school, but from people that are reporting on it and professors that I've interviewed. I'm confused on that because, honestly, I hear about it a lot. I read it in the newspapers. I hear about it from other people telling me. I don't see it in my experience. You know, the whole extreme level of political correctness is not one that I have to, that I witness a lot. I get to do what I do. I say what I say.

Nobody gets pissed off. Nobody yells at me over it. It tends to be fairly, in their regard, they're still a little bit, and I don't see my students getting offended at everything the way you would read based on websites and all of it. I'm not saying that that doesn't exist. I'm sure it does.

I mean, it must be based on something. I just don't think it's quite as, either I'm extremely it does. I mean, it must be based on something. I just don't think it's quite as either I'm extremely lucky for some reason or it's not quite as pervasive as it sounds on paper. But I don't know because, you know, of course, all I know is my experience and that may not be representative of what's out there. It's also probably indicative of the sheer numbers of people that are in school. It's like, did you ever see that old Bill Hicks bit? in school. It's like, did you ever see that old Bill Hicks bit? Bill Hicks had this really funny bit about CNN, about how every time you turn the news, murder, death, rape, pit bulls. And he goes, and then you go look out the window and you hear chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp. He goes,

where the fuck's all this shit happening? But I think the sheer numbers of human beings that are in school, if you're dealing with how many millions of kids are in school, I don't know how many there are. But out of those, you're going to be able to cherry pick some extreme examples of social justice warriors, political correct thinking, progressive thinking run amok, diversity run amok. I think that's what's going on. I think that makes for a story that people are going to read and get all pissed off about. Whereas if you talk about it's the same as why we like war. It's the extreme out there kind of thing that makes people emotionally involved in the story. You report it and people get into it.

Whereas if you really talk about what a lot of the time happens it's not that glamorous and so yeah it's not as reported have you had any backlash at all from doing like controversial podcasts because you know you don't you don't hold back no definitely not one thing that i think helps is that probably these are not the same people who listen to podcasts or care or they probably, this is how good it is. I was in a history department meeting. I won't mention the school.

Not that it makes much difference because it's the same thing, probably 99% of them, but they were talking, and this is like 30 people or whatever many people who are historians. That's what they do, right? And when I mentioned Dan carlin hardcore history nobody knew what i was talking about and i'm like are you fucking kidding me you know it's like you are a historian that's the number one history podcast out there is one on the planet podcast period of any kind it's amazing the guy's a god at playing this game and you haven't even heard of him like you didn't even bother checking what's...

That tells me that you're so locked in a tower out there that you have no idea what's... I was blown away. I mean, even I was surprised. And I have generally bad feelings about academia to begin with. And that was too much even for me. How is someone in the world of history not find out about that? That seems like it's such a revolutionary way to distribute history. Yeah, precisely.

But that tells you how insulated that world is where it's about what's in the footnote on page 357 of the monograph that has been read by four people they may know about. Yeah. That's weird. That weird world. Yeah. But, you know, that weird world is what got people to this age today where we can do things like hardcore history. I mean, it was all created by the knowledge that was taught through schools. And Dan did bring that up in one of his podcasts where he said, look, in the past, history was a bit more holistic in nature where good historians were also good storytellers.

And they may have not been quite the same level of researchers, but they were really good storytellers. And they may have not been quite the same level of researchers, but they were really good storytellers. History has moved more and more in the direction of good nerds who hit the library, or now you don't have to go to the library, you do it online, but that are hardcore into research of primary sources. And you need

it. Of course you need that skill, because otherwise you don't have the data to spin a good story about. But if that's all you need that skill because otherwise you don't have the data to spin a good story about. But if that's all the history that's out there, you can have the most accurate history in the world and nobody want to hear it because these guys can't tell it. Because it's dry. You need both. You know, you need the hardcore researcher who digs out little tidbits here and there. And then you need the ones who can spin it in a way that can communicate with with other human beings that people that can make them care that can make them interested that can and these are often not the same people because it requires very different talents

yeah that's a one what a lot of people say about neil degrasse tyson as well that he's uh he's such not just a brilliant man but a brilliant communicator like that his real skill is in making it entertaining and exciting and absorbable whereas the dry lectures that you might listen to from a physics professor nobody cares it just not get in there for whatever reason but you need that

guy sure you need it has that desire to acquire that information the problem with academia is that they have made that guy the only, that's the measuring stick of what a historian is. And that's one side of it. It's an important one. And I give you that. It is an important one.

But it cannot be the only one. Right. Because there's a reason why every single one of the best history books I've ever read is always written by a journalist. It's never written by a historian. Really? books I've ever read is always written by a journalist. It's never written by a historian. Because journalists, they are paid to know how to tell a story, to make it, you know, the reason why you're paid is because you need to hook a reader in that doesn't have to read that story that makes you want to. Right. Then his background was as a journalist, you know, it's about people who nobody owes you

their attention is you intrigue them. And so they want to pay attention. That's that skill. Most of the people who are professional historians in a traditional sense, that talent is not encouraged. It's not something you may have it by luck because that's how you are as a human being, but it's not something that you're encouraged to develop as part of being a good historian. That's seen as like, ah, that's how you are as a human being, but it's not something that you are encouraged to develop as part of being a good historian. That's seen as like, ah, that's popularizing it. Yeah, what's wrong with that? To be able to make something accessible to people.

Isn't that the whole point? Isn't that funny, though, that would be shunned? Yeah. Popularizing something that's as important as the historical record? Yep. Like, it's one of the most important things for human history, or for human beings, rather, is to understand history because then you can learn from the one of the most important things for human history, or for human beings, rather, is to understand history, because then you can learn from the mistakes of the past,

and then understand the parallels of what's going on in the current time. When you look at the Roman Empire, and you talk about the great excesses and how that civilization crumbled under the weight of its own excess, you look at us now, you go, well, there's some parallels here. These people on scooters in Disneyland, you know, excess. You look at us now, you go, well, there's some parallels here. There's people on scooters in Disneyland. I mean, it might not be feeding Christians to the lions, but I mean, there's definitely some fucking crazy shit going on right now that they're going to look back on. When you look at the average American diet and the fact that I was in Disneyland the

other day and I told you they're on scooters. But one of the other things is they had to change the boats out in the Pirates of the Caribbean ride. Except everybody's too big. Because people are too big. Yeah. They've done this several times. They've had to change the boats and they had to dig a deeper trench on It's a Small World

because over the years, people have gotten heavier and heavier. Right. And they have to accommodate and they have to take into account the possibility of 600 pound people. That's what they're doing now. Because I saw several 600 plus pound people that are just overflowing on their scooters. And they also have to help those people from their scooters onto these rides. So these rides have to be reinforced in order to take the weight of several people. I mean, a lot of these rides are like, you're order to take the weight of several people. I mean, a lot of these rides are like you're supposed to only get two people in.

The average two people, you get two people together, you know, maybe 400 pounds for two people. Well, now you got one person that weighs 600 pounds. And so this ride is not really designed for this. So that's discrimination. You've discriminated against our large citizens. This is one of the most disgusting stories that I've ever heard or said. I told it to Danca

once on my podcast. It's so gross, but it's something that my wife had told me when she was working in hospital. She said, oh man, I got pulled over by a colleague. They told me this story and it scarred my brain ever since. So it will gladly scar the brain of everybody listening right now so this couple went in to uh the doctor and they were complaining

about how you know they keep trying to get pregnant and she's not getting pregnant and you know the woman was like probably good 500 pounds something like that just rolls of fat everywhere the whole thing and the doctor was like okay you know let's see what's up let's see what's going on and leave the fat folds left and right and suddenly he realizes oh shit these people thought they were having sex but based on the residue i'm seeing here between the fat folds they weren't exactly having sex the guy was fucking the fat folds thinking that he was in when he wasn't and then they were wondering why they were not getting pregnant they should have let him keep fucking the fat folds you're real close you're real close

keep going like when they told me that i'm like oh my god my brain i cannot get that out of my brain now forever. I would feel like that would be a standard move. It's just titty fucking fat folds. I'm not shocked at all. That didn't even make me feel sick. No, well, these, I don't know. I've seen too much.

Yeah, I think you've seen too much. The thing about lifting the fat folds and finding the rest of you from all the failed attempts, it seems, I don't know. See, I was thinking that they were going to find a fetus in there. I was thinking you were going to say that they gave birth and it just got stuck in the failed attempts. It seems, I don't know. See, I was thinking that they were going to find a fetus in there. I was thinking you were going to say that they gave birth and it just got stuck in the fat folds. Oh, that's even better. Okay, yeah, you win. I can see why.

That's what I was thinking it was going to be. Yeah, I know. That's better. I give you that. How would someone who's that fat think they're going to take care of a child? I don't know. You know, when little toddlers start running around, what are you going to do?

Get your scooter and chase them around the park? Right. Well, you probably stuff them with food day and night. They'll sit next to you and be 200 pounds by the time they're three or so. I've talked about this a bunch of times on the show, but, you know, at the possibility of overindulging this thought, I stopped eating sugar. Well, I didn't stop, but I cut it. I cut it out completely for two weeks, and then I cut it I stopped eating sugar. Well, I didn't stop, but I cut it. I cut it out completely for two weeks and then I cut it way back since then. And I will occasionally every few days or

so allow myself one thing, like a piece of, I like this chili mango, you know, mangoes with chili that has sugar in it, but very, very little sugar. I lost like eight pounds from that. Just doing nothing but that. Working out the same amount. My energy level's completely different. Like through the day, I don't need, I don't get tired towards the end of the day anymore. It just stayed normal. It's weird. That's where nature is fucked up because sugar tastes so damn good. Yeah.

And yet it's so bad for you. Well, it's supposed to taste good in the form of fruit because it comes with the reward of vitamins and fiber and all this other good stuff that's of fruit because it comes with the reward of vitamins and fiber and all this other good stuff that's in fruit. Yeah. But we've somehow or another hijacked that and extracted it from the food and shoved it into a liquid. It comes in a nice aluminum can.

You pop the top and you get that corn syrup. Right. Deep into your heart. Yeah. Yeah. But the average American diet is just overflowing with sugar. And these poor people are just becoming bigger and fatter and corn syrup and simple sugars. And they're just overwhelmed with this excess sugar.

And I think that's the primary issue that people have when it comes to weight loss sugars and and simple sugars and carbohydrates and and uh you know simple carbs like pastas and breads and all that stuff which converts to sugar alcohol which converts to sugar it's all but even that you know probably there's also sitting on your ass forever and never moving because i mean i see i would like when i go back to italy i see how people eat and people eat monstrous amount of pasta, right? Right. And you're like, how are you even? And yet you see them and-

Skinny. Most of them. Exactly. It's like, if you see me when I eat, when I have pasta, it would be like, really, you're hitting half the box of the whole thing. They're like, yeah, easy. And I feel actually pretty good. I can go for more, you know?

It's like- Do they have the same wheat in Italy? That's where I have the question marks. Clearly something is different there. You know, something is not because you cannot. If it was just the carbs, then that should do it. Then everybody should be huge. And that's not the case.

So something is going on. I mean, I've seen it even with like if I eat tomatoes in Italy versus tomatoes out here. Tomatoes in Italy are awesome tasting and they are filling. You know, you eat some tomatoes, you feel like that can be a big chunk of your lunch right there. I eat tomatoes here, I feel like I'm drinking water in a red package. They taste like nothing and they don't fill me. Like it's theoretically the same fruit,

but clearly something has been done different in the way they have been. GMOs, man. I don't they have been. GMOs, man. I don't fucking know what. GMO-fied, man. No idea why or what, but clearly the result is different. Well, selective breeding. I mean, they've selectively made these tomatoes a much more hearty tomato that doesn't taste very good. Right.

They've bred out all the juiciness because they don't last. I have some heirloom tomatoes at home. I just bought them the other day. They're already really soft. Right. I got bred out all the juiciness because they don't last. Like, I have some heirloom tomatoes at home. I just bought them the other day. They're already really soft. Right. I got to eat them tonight. And I think people are lazy and they don't go grocery shopping often enough. And so it's like, I want to buy a tomato today.

The last three weeks from now, it's going to look just as new. And the fact is, well, it's going to look new, but you have no nutrition and no taste. Well, it's really in the shipping. The shipping is the big issue, like being able to get them across the country in a big truck. But the heirloom tomatoes, I didn't even know they existed until 10 years ago or whatever it was when I first had one. They're fucking delicious. They are. That's what a tomato is supposed to be like.

Exactly. It's like we have this rare tomato. That's a tomato right there. That is real tomatoes. I hope we don't run out of heirloom tomato seeds. That would cry. That would really cry. I love tomatoes.

If we get to a point someday, I'm hoping that with all these, this is new emphasis on craft restaurants and craft breweries and craft. People are really into farm to table restaurants. There's a lot. This is a great one near me. I get eggs there. and craft. People are really into farm-to-table restaurants. There's a lot. This is a great one near me. I get eggs there, and the eggs have a dark orange yolk, just like my eggs, and the food is all from a local farm, and they'll tell you what farm they're sourcing their beef from. It's a great little restaurant.

It's great. It's awesome. But I'm hoping that with that sort of trend, that more and more people embrace that and then we'll keep the idea alive of, you know, real natural foods. I even like, sorry. No, it's okay. I was going to say, but, you know, in other ways, like things like golden rice, like genetically modified rice that is much higher in protein, that's helped a lot of people. Right. Kept a lot of people from starving.

No, I'm all for people having choices. of people right kept a lot of people from starving no i'm all for people having choices it's like the thing i don't like is when one model become the the only model that you don't let anybody else have a choice well there's a problem there is like if it doesn't i don't even care which one is winning the point is if you start having a one model only there's a problem there so and you do have the people who want none of this shit and we outlaw it or the opposite is like, we're going to saturate the market so much that we squeeze every other possibility out. Both of those are shitty choices. It's like you want to allow as much choice out there as possible and in a way that doesn't squash all the other possibilities. You know what I read

recently that I thought was really interesting is that McDonald's is apparently hurting like really badly and that their profits are down radically from like 20 years ago. And that they're thinking that eventually that model of really shitty food, fast food is going to be gone. And they're going to be replaced by things like In-N-Out Burger, which is delicious. They cook it to order. It takes a little bit more time, but it's infinitely better. Exactly. And these Five Guys, places like that, that's the new model. And then that's what you're going to get.

And then the idea is like, have you been to LAX recently? Have you been flying? Yeah. Well, one of the things you notice if you go to LAX is the restaurant choices have gotten dramatically better. Definitely. Like you can get really good food at the airport now, like really cool restaurants.

They're not chains. And like, this is a brilliant idea. There's a food truck there. It's like you've got a truck of face, and then there's a little restaurant behind it. But the idea is they're going to give you food like you would get from a food truck. And so they're establishing this new sort of a place to get,

which used to be like you'd get chilies, you'd get like Applebee's. It was like chain restaurants or McDonald's, stuff like that. But now you get like a really nice salad. You get a kale salad with like real cucumbers and stuff on it and stuff. You get a kale salad with real cucumbers and stuff on it and stuff. I think people are realizing that just because this is the only way we've had before, that you don't have to have it this way. I saw this thing, one of Anthony Bourdain's shows was on San Francisco. And one of the guys that runs this really nice restaurant was going to open up an all-vegetarian, healthy food option, a very cheap place, in the Tenderloin, which is like one of the worst places in San Francisco.

And the menu was going to vary between two and six dollars. That's it. And everything on the menu was between two and six dollars. And they had like a really healthy veggie burger that actually tasted good. Like Bourdain ate one. And it's like, this is actually good. I would actually order this. And they're going to try to provide healthy, semi-fast food for people.

I think that's a great idea. Why can't it be done? I think, and it's not that difficult because a lot of healthy stuff, there's the stereotype that all the healthy stuff is crazy expensive. Not all of it. It's just a matter of digging in enough and finding things that can be nutritious and not crazy expensive because there are those options. It's not that of oh you need to have bank in order to eat healthy or you eat cheaply crap yeah there's some of it it's true but not completely there are options where

you can eat delicious meals that and i mean you like to cook i've done times where like i'll cook at home and i think about what i just spent and it's nothing and it's fucking delicious and this good food and it's nutritious. And I'm like, what's wrong with that plan? You know, why is that? And I think with what you were saying earlier, also that intrigued me, something I've been obsessing a bit, the distance that goes from people eating the food to the food being produced. And I don't mean just how far it travels, but even how disconnected we are. I don't care even if it comes from three miles from here. I mean, it's better, of course, but I'm into the idea of people

having at least to some degree some contact with the food you eat. So you do have, whether it's, you know, the guy who, I remember you had it on the show, the image of the guy that in Milan did the vertical woods or whatever they call it, you know, like that,

it looked like a skyscraper where they put a bunch of trees all over it. Is that right? Yes, yes. You remember? One of his plans now was trying to figure out how to put on all rooftops, put gardens so that people can have their vegetable gardens,

even on top of like four-story buildings or something that there can be the building garden that everybody goes, now, I don't know how it's going to work in terms of, that was my tomato, fuck you, I'm going to kill you. But having that idea where it may not be all, you're not self-sufficient, it's not all of your food, but you have some

contact with the food that you end up eating, I think everybody should have it to one degree or another. And partially it's hard because most people don't have the space, the situation to do it in their backyard. But figuring out ways on the chip to make that happen, figuring out ways on an architectural standpoint, on multiple ways to try to make the link between people and eating food, a direct one, so that people have a sense of where food comes from, that they raise their own food to one degree or another.

I think that would be awesome. I don't know how realistic that is or how practical, but why not take a few steps in that direction, figure out how it can be done. Yeah, I mean, everyone who has a backyard should have a garden. It's not that difficult to grow something. And just even if you only grow a meal a month, just a salad, just something, there's something particularly satisfying

about picking a cucumber that you grew, chopping it up, putting it in a salad, cooking a squash that you grew. It's really nice. And I think it's primal. I think it connects us in some sort of a way. You appreciate it a lot more. That's for sure. It's like you remember all the time and energy that went into getting this stuff from this big.

And you're like, ah, there's a story behind it. My friend Remy Warren was on the podcast yesterday. And he has a show on the Outdoor Channel called Apex Predator. called Apex Predator. And it's all about he follows these different animals and tries to learn how they hunt and how they survive. And one of them, it was about bears, and he tried to forage the way a bear forages. And he was shocked by how little you could find to eat.

Like, even if you know what you're doing. It's hard, man. And we were talking and he was saying, you look around at all these plants. Everywhere we look, we see trees and bushes and garden, but none of it you can eat. Like, why do we grow so many plants? We could just grow food everywhere.

And I was like, I never even thought about that. Like, instead of palm trees, like, have food trees. Like, everywhere food. Could you imagine if everyone anywhere you looked everywhere you go there was grapes growing and tomatoes and and and fucking peaches and shit like why not exactly i agree 110 with that it's like it's how we we need to work in that direction it seems like it's totally possible if there's all these bushes and trees every every city street has bushes and trees and but none of them are growing food it's weird it makes no sense it doesn't and it's not like those like an apple tree is a beautiful tree like a cherry tree that's a beautiful tree why don't we i don't get it i don't get it either it's strange it's like somewhere along

the line we lost the plot yeah growing a bunch of shit we don't need that seemed like a really smart concept yeah that's so dumb yeah it's very strange it's it's very strange that we don't have food around us all the time like we have to rely on it getting shipped in in trucks yeah yeah i mean seriously like any major american city, or for the matter, most cities in the world are this far away, like they are one big blackout away from everybody turning into the walking dead. Yeah.

It's where things get really ugly really quick, because nobody has any idea how to get food. Daniele Belletti, do we have to end on a low note like that? No, let's pick up. We're almost out of time, though. We have very little time here left.

What do you got there? What's the book you got? Oh, this is, I'm doing research. This is a book about Caravaggio, the Italian painter. I'm doing, because I prepare a bunch of the research. For History on Fire, I prepare a lot of research ahead, because otherwise what Dan Carlin ended up doing is that you do need to have these humongous gaps between one episode and the next to research.

Because it takes – I was doing the math the other day just because I was bored. And I figured it would take me to produce a two-hour episode for History on Fire. It takes me probably about 200 hours of work, of preparation and research and read the book and take the notes and do this and that. So, I mean, that's a full-time job. I can't release episodes often if I'm doing other things. So what I did is for the last two years, I basically prepared to start History on Fire. And I've done research. So you knew you were going to do this? Yeah. For the last couple of years, I've been working at it. Not all the time, you know,

while I do another thing and now I can get to it. But I basically prepare eight episodes. So I would have the research ready to roll. I can just need to record it and that's it. So it buys me a little time. So I can release episodes every six weeks now until eventually the research catch up with me. And then I'll be on a Dan Carlin schedule. So now I'm researching episode nine while I am still on episode two is out. So I'm like trying to eventually we'll catch up with me. Probably won't be that long until catch up with me.

But until then, by delivering episodes on a relatively often schedule, I can also hook up more people. And by that point, they may be more forgiving if I take longer to do the research. Well, it's such an intensive style of podcasting. It's really like not just educational, but it's like you're kind of doing a lecture. It's like an audio lecture. Yeah, when I did episode two, I was really happy with episode one. I thought, kicks ass. It's good.

It's everything I wanted that I picture in my mind is coming on. I did episode two. I listened to it. And I'm like, this is a B effort. This is not what I wanted. But I did the whole thing. I recorded it over a few days. I'm like, no, come on.

And then I was like, you know what? Fuck it. Delete. Start over. Wow. You deleted it. Yeah. I was like, no, I don't want to do it.

Especially, definitely not at the beginning, but in general. Did you release it and then delete it? No, no. I just recorded it. We're about to put the intro, the outro, that kind of thing. And I was listening. And I'm like, no, it doesn't have that punch that I want. And so I was like, no, fuck it.

So do you do it on an outline? Yeah, it's a fairly detailed outline. Now, you don't want to script it because, of course, then it doesn't sound natural. But you want to have it pretty clear of where you are going. And so if you have the quotation that you need to quote is right there. If you know exactly where it's going, so it's semi-scripted, but then you do it where you can. It's kind of like if I deliver a lecture in class, you know, I'll take a peek at my notes and like, oh, that's where I need to go next. But then you deliver it in a more natural style.

Right. notes and like oh that's where i need to go next but then you deliver it in a more natural style right and so that's yeah so i'll write a good chunk of notes but then of course you don't read notes you just have them there as to keep you on track so that you know where you're going next and i'd be really curious to see if your accent is the same by episode nine i honestly doubt it's gonna change because again if i could hear it, actually, I got in trouble because I said it on your podcast. I think the first time I was on your podcast. And as a joke, I said, you know, no, I used to speak perfect English. I just am using it for women, right? And people took it seriously.

They thought that I really. You fucking pig. Yeah. And by the fact, if I could pull that off, I actually would do it because it's still, if I can get women that way, I would do it. But it's really just I don't hear it. Well, you have a green light to do it because you're Italian. If I moved to Italy and I started talking like this, then I would be a poser. It wouldn't work.

You're not a poser. But the fact is also it would take an insane amount of work to change because I don't hear it. So I would have to really sit down and just spend forever doing. You have the most extreme version of a completely fluent English language that I've ever heard. Because like Anthony Bourdain's wife is from Italy and she has a very strong Italian accent, but she's way clearer than you. I mean, you and I have been friends for a long time, so I know exactly what you're saying, what you're saying. But if I didn't know you, I'd probably be like, what the fuck did he just say?

There are ties. There's a flow. There's a flow to it, though. And some people have zero problems, right? Most people are like, oh, no, I understand everything you say. No problem. And then there are people who have no idea of what one word i'm saying i had um i had a friend that were talking on the phone and they were like oh so i'm gonna cook tonight and i'm like what what do you want

to eat and they said i don't know what do you say i was thinking of making some salmon and they're like what salmon what salmon sorry i'm not fish oh fish okay great what kind of fish salmon all Salmon. What? Salmon? Sorry. Fish. Oh, fish. Okay, great. What kind of fish? Salmon. Because of course you don't say salmon, right? That's a moron.

They can't put two and two together? No. But also my pronunciation, salmon. I'm pronouncing every single letter, whereas in English it's... Salmon. Yeah, exactly. Thank you, that one. But I can't, you know, it's like...

And no one says salmon. Yeah. Right? That's not how you say it. Thank you, that one. But I can't, you know, it's like. And no one says salmon. Yeah. Right? That's not how you say it. You're making up words. Exactly. I spell out every single thing. Because in Italian, every letter that's there is meant to be pronounced.

So you read every single damn letter. In English, that's not the case. And so that's confusing most of the time. But there's also some weird things, like two Cs or an H. Sure. Yeah. And two Ls or an H. Sure. Yeah. And two L's or a Y. Things get weird.

Yeah. That's the phonetic differences between the way letters, like that's a big issue obviously with Portuguese to English too with the Brazilians or the R's or H's. And everything gets very weird when you try to translate it back and forth. Well, that was what I wanted to ask you earlier, but I had actually forgotten. When we were talking about translating, when you were talking about the difference between learning English and seeing how short and abrupt the sentences are

as opposed to, like, the Italian, how difficult is it when they're translating, like, ancient historical texts? It's crazy hard. Yeah. It's crazy hard. That's why a lot of translations are, it's an art form. You know, some translators are awesome

and who knows if they are really true to the original language, but some translators can produce something amazing and some don't. It's, I love like Tao Te Ching, you know, when you read Taoism, some translations are painful. I don't give a fuck.

It's like, this is boring as hell. I don't know what they are talking about. And you read the next translation, it's the best book you've ever read. And it's like, how can that even be? Right. Well, there's some sort of an artistic license in the translations.

That's what it is. That's what really kind of has to be taken into account when you're talking about any really ancient thing that's in a language. You have to take into account the time that they wrote it, the way people communicated back then. Even if you read ancient English stuff, the way they talked,

even just read the Declaration of Independence, the way people described things and communicated, it's odd. It is. It's hard to wrap your head around. Big time. It's translation from one culture to another, one time period to another,

and all those combined, like ancient Italian literature, translating that to modern American English. It's got to be, like, super bizarre. Yeah, you're kind of rewriting it to some degree. It's a cooperation between the writer and the translator, and that's why when i there were a lot of books that i read in italian because my english sucked and i couldn't

really read in english and when i finally got to read them in english i'm like well that's another book that's completely different there are some similarities but it's a whole different style there's it's not even close yeah i would think that would be the case like absolutely with like the bible they're like to really understand the Bible you have to truly understand like whatever translation again Aramaic you'd have to like truly understand ancient Hebrew yeah but ancient Hebrews like a real squirrelly language anyway right nobody speaks it exactly the way it was it's kind of there's a lot of guesswork of course well this is one of the weirdest ones

because it's also a number it's a numerical language like the letter a is the number one they don't have numbers yeah yeah the letters served as numbers as well so it's like words had numerical value good luck translating that and there's a bunch of words today like there's a debate about what percentage are still under you know debate right it's like what what it actually means what it doesn't mean but imagine if you could learn ancient hebrew like exactly how they did it then you would understand what they were trying to say but even then you wouldn't understand it unless you were in the context of the culture that existed when you had to know how they thought about things. Exactly. That's why most of the time you have to, you don't really

know what that guy said. You are, this translation sound better, so I'll go with that one, but you don't really know which one they meant. Well, it's gotta be one of the really most difficult, one of the most difficult aspects about history too because it was written by people who decided how they wanted people to remember the turn of events exactly whether or not that's exactly how it went down there are cases where there's like the egyptian guy who left the record of like oh we meet the we met the hittites and we kick their ass and we wipe them out and the pharaoh is the best and then you read the hittite account and it's like, whoa, that does not look like the same baton they're talking about.

Yeah, it's how do you know what the fuck really happened? I mean, we have this vague sense of what happened. We know like facts, like these people

aren't around anymore so somebody killed them. Yep. You know, well, we found this pile of bones and this is where we think we found Troy

because this is a spot. Like, fuck, man. There's a ton of guesswork involved in history. You know, we make it sound like it's this super hard science, and, you know, you want to be as scientific as possible, but there's a lot of guesswork at the end of the day. That's so weird. It's so weird that we're trying to piece together the past

to understand how we got here, almost like a giant crime scene of the world yep we're slowly like brushing fingerprint dust on things and trying to figure out where the fucking blood splattered from and what happened yeah what the fuck happened and then you have to go over some shit that people wrote down you don't even know what the hell they were saying you get a bunch of scholars there's one episode I want to do next. There's no primary sources. It's all archaeology.

And it's this guy. I don't know if you remember the story. The guy that they found the body perfectly preserved from 5,000 years ago. The Iceman? Yeah, the Iceman. Utsi? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's an awesome story because through archaeology, you find out so much.

You can find out what this guy was eating 5,000 years ago. All of this stuff. And yet ultimately you don't know who the hell he was, but it's the mystery, right? You know enough to tease you, but just not enough to actually know what was up. Yeah. It's amazing though

that you can find something like that preserved and at least get like a short window into that time. Jamie just gave me the two minute mark, so we're going to wrap this bitch up. It's over, baby. We just did it. Three hours, my friend. This was so much fun. Flew by. Flew by. I love it every time.

History on Fire, two episodes are available and episode zero as well, right? Like a little pilot episode to let everybody know what's up. And anything else? Got a book coming out next month so early december i have uh my people can if they're interested they can check out well please we'll tweet about it we'll let everybody know and uh i'll have you back in once the book's out too my brother thank you so much thank you all right my friends that's it for

this week we'll be back next week. Till then, see you soon. Bye-bye.