The Joe Rogan Experience - #719 - Josh Olin

Episode Date: November 4, 2015

Josh Olin is currently Vice President of Communications at 3D Realms, a video game publisher/developer. He also previously worked as the community manager for various games, including Call of Duty & League of Legends.

Boom, and we're live. Joshua, how are you? I'm good, Joe. How are you? Dude, your story. Well, we were talking before this, alright, because I had seen online that you had gotten fired for this whole Donald Sterling comment thing, and then you had said to me, you took some heat for the Donald Sterling thing, too. But not really. I didn't.

There's no... The only real heat is you like get in trouble. Like you lose, you lose a job. You actually got fired for saying something that's entirely reasonable. And I'm going to paraphrase what you said, but I believe what you said was he has every right to be an old bigot in the privacy of his home. And that he's a victim because this fucking floozy that he was hanging around with Had recorded him and then leaked the audio right? Which is totally completely reasonable you called him an old bigot you didn't in any way support him right? I said he was a bigot in my own in my own statement even a statement that was isolated

Yeah, thank you for picking up on that but this idea that in the privacy of your own home, that your words should be, they should be gone over with a fine tooth comb by the entire world. And that's not some horrendous invasion of privacy. Like, that's fucked, man. To me, that invasion of privacy is a way more egregious error than someone being a shithead at his own time, right? And even what he said, the reality of what he said. He said, and he never used a racial slur. I mean, call him a bigot if you will. But what he said was, I don't want, to his girlfriend, I don't want you taking pictures with these black guys.

I don't care if you fuck them. Right. But I don't want you taking pictures with them. I don't care if you fuck them is a huge part of his statement. I would not say that's a bigot. Yeah, look, so worst case, right, or best case, depending on what your perspective is,

social justice warrior or whatever, but yeah, best case scenario, worst case scenario, he's a bigot, right? But even that shouldn't affect me the way that it seemed to have been affecting everybody right in the way that the media was hyping it up and the media was was spinning it and totally not necessarily looking at the other kind of really bad seedy shit that was going on around that whole thing right yeah i mean i have to question what is the mistress's motives in that right like all that's hearsay and i know that in the wake of all of that, there was lots of finger pointing and he said, she said going on and, and lawsuits filed. But I think that, you know, it's not hard to imagine that her motives weren't pure. You know, they weren't, they weren't like, it wasn't like she was some white knight, you know, rushing into to do some great social justice. I think that at the end of the day, she was really out to, you know,

take this guy down and, or, or get something out of it. Right. Well, didn't she say that she didn't release it? I believe that was her statement. Yeah.

I mean, whoever, whoever got ahold of it, I don't know what her statement is. And at the end of the day, Joe, to me, it's hearsay,

right? That all of that shouldn't matter to me. What matters to me is like the, and what I was trying to call attention to, and what I've always tried to call attention to is the way people kind of we have these weird priorities. We we love to be have this endorphin drip. We love to be angry. We love to be a part of something big. And then we don't necessarily take a step back and look at like the big picture of what was happening, what what was going down and and what could we be talking about instead of all of this stuff, right? Well, it's just infuriating to me that you can get fired for what I believe is an incredibly innocuous statement. I mean, maybe this is coming from me, maybe my perception of the difference between working for a public company

and having controversial opinions and you know me being a comedian a cage fighting commentator it's a does it i have different standards i guess it's a different world yeah i mean i can say something pretty fucked up and i'll i might get a call from the ufc and they're like what are you drunk you know like that's it you're like yeah pretty much i might say it and i'll say sorry i was fucked up and then it goes away but you know i just can't believe that the standards are so low or that the the outrage standards that it's like it requires such a minimal ripple on the seismic you know the seismograph that people will freak out to the point where you can lose your fucking job for calling someone a bigot and saying this guy should have the right to do that in his home and be a piece of shit.

I know what to expect from Westboro Baptist Church. I know what to expect from the KKK. I don't agree with any of that shit. I abhor it. I think that they're all scumbags. But I kind of know what to expect from that. agree with any of that shit and i i i abhor it i think that they're all scumbags but but but i i kind of know what to expect from that and that shouldn't surprise me when when some headline comes out or when they do some weird stuff right um a lot of people were saying you know well

donald sterling he had this huge long history of being like racially weird and and and questionable so it's like well then why why are you acting really surprised that that this thing happened at all and why are you supporting like a breach of privacy in that way? Because that to me is a more sort of inalienable right to privacy. I completely and totally agree. And I think that this idea that somehow or another you should be on your best behavior all the time. You can't just say something. If you're alone and you want to say something completely disgusting, you may or may not mean it. You might be under the influence of alcohol or drugs, but you're not giving public

statements. And so for those public statements or for it to get out like a public statement and for people to absorb it like a public, and then analyze it and critique it and criticize it and then get crazy about it. I found it ridiculous. And I think if the guy does have this long history of being racist, I understand it then. Then I understand why people are upset. Like, they're like, good, we got him. Like, here it is. Right.

We caught him. But what does that do with me? Right. But understand how you caught him. Like, here it is. Right. We caught him. What does that have to do with me? Right. But understand how you caught him. Yeah. You know? I mean, you caught him in a fucked up way that nobody should get caught that way. I mean, that's just not how the world is supposed to work in America in 2015.

I mean, what is everybody upset about? Everybody's upset about this Edward Snowden thing, right? Because Edward Snowden found out that the NSA is secretly wiretapping every fucking phone in the country and recording all your emails, recording all your voicemails, and everybody got crazy. Like, that's outrageous. Well, that's no different. This is all private stuff. I mean, this is very similar.

It's along the same lines. The idea that you can be judged and him ultimately, I mean, guy got his fucking team taken away. He got hammered. I mean, it's insane. It changed the course of his life. And for someone like that too, like he's a billionaire, he's the money aspect is, is hardly anything for him, right? To him, it's his legacy. The thing that mattered most to him, completely trashed, completely gone. And again, it doesn't matter who he was and what other people thought of him. And what matters again to me is just the way that, and honestly, I wasn't even that mad at the NBA because if you look at the position they were in, they kind of had their hand forced in a lot of ways under this torrential downpour of media

and public discourse. And so in a way way, I almost like empathize with them and the position that they were put in. But to me, it's the way that we reacted to it and the way that we kind of were okay with it and a part of it. And so I was trying to be the one voice of reason at the time, swimming against the stream

to try to bring some common sense to the conversation, which is like this guy, he's not this weird monster dude. He's not like this crazy, he's not this weird monster dude. You know, he's not like this, this, this, you know, crazy guy who's wreaking havoc and blowing up cities and towns. Like he's an old guy who grew up in an era where very different than ours. And he might have some weird shit floating around in his head.

And maybe, maybe all of that was true. But at the end of the day, what still is not right is what's happening to him right now. And you made this one tweet, which again i i think is fairly innocuous i i actually no completely innocuous totally justified the first tweet the company you were working for makes in response to it they call you their former community leader was that how you found out you were fired practically um so i can run you through the timetable if you want. At the beginning of the day... What company was it again?

The company that I worked for is called Turtle Rock Studios. A bunch of really talented artists who are making an incredibly ambitious game called Evolve. The game was and still is really awesome. But the company... Game development, we work in a slightly different clock than most of corporate America. We work, we go in at like

10 AM and we leave at like 7 PM because we're usually up until really late in the, late in the evening. So, uh, I really don't even wake up until like nine o'clock every day, most days. So that day I woke up and my phone was kind of buzzing and blowing up. Um, uh, one of my, one of my really close friends and colleagues at the time texted me and he was like, hey, by the way, you know, the stuff you tweeted about the other day, like some news outlet picked up on it, some small, you know, thing. Some vulture group. Exactly. Who wanted to capitalize on that sensational headline. And so he was just giving me a heads up and I was like, oh yeah, you know, thanks, whatever. To me at the at the time i was like whatever like i know what the group he that i don't want to name the the site but but i know what they're about like they

do this all the time so i was like whatever um and then so uh maybe i jump in the shower and i get out and i've got texts from like our gm at our at our studio like you need to go radio dark on all social media period and i was like what i was like what? And so I texted him back. I'm like, is this in relation to the article, the one article that no one else picked up on? And that like, you know, half the comments were like that, dude, that's totally not what Josh was saying. And the other half were kind of reacting sensationally to it. But like the other half, even on the comments of the article, were like, you're taking him out of context. Right. And that was the entire extent of the controversy circling me at the time.

And then 45 minutes later, I still haven't even left my apartment to go into the studio yet. 45 minutes later, my email stops working. And I'm like, oh, like, I'm not dumb, not stupid. I'm like, they literally just shut off my email. And then so I tried calling him and he didn't take my call. And then an hour later, he's like, yeah, we should, we should probably meet at like the Starbucks around the corner. And I was like, what? what like you you don't want me to come into the office and talk about this like you don't want to hear my side of it you don't want to see what's what like it's just done and then they issued the statement that they made which was like the literally putting the match to the kerosene so maybe there was some kerosene maybe there was some like potential for outrage um and then when they fired me it turned into this huge thing in the gaming industry around like, was that right?

Was that wrong? So like the vast majority of people who had never even heard about that or even would have cared that I tweeted that kind of like everybody heard about it. Mainstream heard about it. Like Mark Cuban started following me on Twitter. Like if you were if they were afraid the NBA was going to get pissed at us, me for weighing in on it then, their kind of reaction to it made it like 50 times worse. Yeah, I wish I was in on it when it happened, because I would have went crazy.

And I would have tweeted, and we would have talked about it on the podcast as it happened. I wasn't aware of it until after the fact. But to me, it smacks of this outrage culture that we're in now where people are just waiting for the green light to be a cunt. And that's what it is. It's, it's not really that they're angry at this. I don't believe it. I think there's a great deal of fake outrage, recreational outrage that we're experiencing in our culture right now. And it's because people for the first time ever have a voice instantly to talk about anything.

And that's what Twitter is. That's what Facebook is. You instantaneously can project your thoughts out to the world and people love doing it and they love being pissed off and they're most likely pissed off because of their life. They're most likely pissed off because of their relationship or their job or their weight or, you know, whatever the fuck it is. But they're just not balanced people. And there's a lot of them. And they're looking to hit that fucking gas pedal when they see that green light.

Because that green light, that Josh Owens, a piece of shit, that motherfucker, he supported Donald Sterling? How dare he? How dare you? Defending racism in 2015. Yeah. And here's the scary thing for me, Joe, is that these people, I mean, these people, I don't want to make people sound weird,

but they've always been here. Yes. And they've only now had the microphone to talk about this. So we as a society, society has to be better than the individual. What I'm trying to say is that these individuals who, you know, are fueled by that, they've always been around. And now we as a society need to be bigger than the individual. And we need to look at that

and understand, we need to identify what it is, understand why it's wrong and the kind of damage and the kind of risk it presents to free thinking, free speech, and even industry. And then we need to, you know, change the way we're behaving very consciously, very cognizantly with every, with, you know, everything that we do to, to try to suppress those feelings. Cause they're just natural tendencies. Like if you, if you try to boil it down to just the, like the neuroscience of it, these are just like emotional receptors in our brains. It's, it's what makes us, you know, tick it. It's the, it's why these clickbaity articles like, you Wonders of the World revealed after you click this link.

It's why that is so successful because those appeal to the emotional centers of our brain instead of the cognitive centers of our brain. You're being too kind. They appeal to retards. Say it. Say it. And that's what's going on. What you're doing with Twitter and with Facebook is empowering the whole world to communicate. And it's a beautiful thing. It's amazing. It was meant to be a beautiful thing.

And so as a social psychologist, I self-prescribe myself to that. I didn't go to school for this, but I'm fascinated by it. I try to learn everything that I can about it. And in my position that I've been in, my whole my whole career been building and architecting communities and the way people interact online and on social media. So I say this with a certain amount of self-loathing because I was kind of part of the problem building that empire up.

Now I look back at it and I think, there's problems with this. And it's unlocking a toxicity that is running rampant across a bunch of different issues. And it leads to just hate and bile and venom and harassment. like a toxicity that is running rapid across a bunch of different issues and it leads to just hate and bile and venom and harassment and for now I honestly believe this is a temporary step on the way to more enlightened culture I really

do believe this and I think that what we're experiencing now is people when you see someone write something like what was the name of this company that you worked for again? Turtle Rock. Turtle Rock. Turtle Rock Studios. If you do not fire this man, you know, expect me to boycott your business. You don't know who wrote that.

That guy could be shit in his pants as he wrote it. He could be jerking off into fucking other people's soup. He could be, you know, driving on the highway with one foot on the gas and one hand on his cell phone, the other hand on his dick. You don't know. We don't know who these people are. They're words. Anyone can type a sentence. Anyone can type. But you don't know who that person is.

Like, should I consider your opinion? We all know idiots. can tell but you don't know who that person is like what should i consider your opinion we all know idiots we we've all run into idiots in our lives that if you went to them with an opinion you ask them a question about anything they're likely to give you some really fucking stupid answer and you wouldn't even consider it because you go oh well that's mike mike's a tool you know of course he said that he's a fool. And when you see Mike's words written down with a period and an exclamation point, and it looks all normal, like it doesn't seem like it came from a fucking idiot. We're used to talking to people. I look at you, I can tell

you're a reasonable, intelligent guy. We're having a wonderful conversation and you're normal. Okay. But if you're some fucking idiot And you were saying the same you know thing that these people that are outraged You know about your your tweet about John Osterling if you were an idiot and you were saying that I would immediately dismiss it I would say well this guy's an idiot This is real simple, but on mass and in that wave and online and social media without that context You don't know and you don't know if this guy's an idiot or if he's a thought leader. And so then all of those messages and all of those tweets and all of those hashtags, they add up.

And we lose the context. I mean, we lose the forest through the trees. We don't just do that. It's also these people haven't earned the ability to communicate. They haven't earned it. They've just found it. Like, I haven't earned it. They've just found it like I haven't earned it. I just found it. I mean, I stumbled upon this ability through the internet. I mean,

that's what we've all done. You haven't really earned it, right? At least you're consistent about it, right? Your message is always fairly, fairly coming from a very pragmatic place. You take a look at the guy, you know, one arbitrary guy who is typing some angry shit into his Twitter feed and you scroll back through his history and the stuff that he was complaining about just the other day or the last week, it could be in stark contrast to whatever he happened to be angry about today, right? Or coming from a completely different place of morals and standards that he has. Well, that's one of the coolest things about Twitter

is that when someone says something really stupid, you go to their Twitter page and go, oh, look at this amazing river of retardation that's coming out of your fat head. It's funny. I used to have a real problem with like, I used to get baited easily into stupid arguments and just stupid, spend hours trying to change a guy. And I started doing that, right? Where I'd click through and I'd read through. I'm just like, this isn't worth it. It's not worth my time. It's almost never worth it. It's almost never worth it. But I think that these people have never had this ability to communicate before and they don't think about it too much. And I think that this power that human beings have today through social media, it's amazing.

Like ultimately it's way better. It's way better than not having it. And I think it's an amazing time. But this is how i like to put it in perspective to people if you're in a room with a hundred people what are the odds that one of those people is a total fucking moron it's about a hundred percent if you have a hundred people in a room well you can have 99 amazing people as a comic you see this all the time it's the it's the one heckler it's the one asshole in the room, right?

And so you just expand that out to the whole world. Expand that out to the entire Twitter.com domain. Well, just the whole planet. Look at the United States of America. If it's one out of 100, that means there's three point whatever. Five? What is it? 350 million people in this country?

Yeah. That's three and a half million retards. Three and a half million slobbering shitheads just pounding on their keyboards demanding action demanding you get fired demanding you get reprimanded demanding you apologize and over what over over their shitty fucking lives that's what it is but these is. But the real problem is that companies like Turtle Rock are pussies. And that they can't look at this rationally. They can't look at this reasonably. Two human beings.

Just like, why did you write that? Oh, I wrote it because I feel like the invasion of privacy thing is much more important than the fact that guy said something that was you know racially fucked up okay good point yeah I mean that's the end of it yeah but you're taking these opinions from all these other people people that are chiming in just because they're looking for that fucking green light they're looking to hit that gas because they're frustrated because they're stuck in traffic all day because their body sucks because the girlfriend doesn't want to touch them, whatever the fuck reason it is. The context.

That's their life context, but that's their shit. Let them deal with it, right? Don't bring repercussions on other people. And again, me, you know, I'm fine, whatever. I'm doing just fine. But the kind of damage that that did to people that I cared about who were still at the company, right? Like my friends there, my colleagues who, because when that all happened, like it was

just that, right? It was mostly people just yelling and angry at them for doing what they did to me. Right. Well, they should be that. That makes sense. And so that should be the repercussion for firing someone for free speech. Yeah. And that and that wasn't that wasn't good, though, either. Right. Like that was still really bad, too. And that wasn't to me. That wasn't even any better. Right. No. The way it's better is you take the person who fired you and they should be fired and they should be publicly flogged someone should take them out with rubber dicks just smack

them in the face like a hundred lashes it's just it's nonsense it's it's it's a fool's endeavor to to try to please all the fucking idiots of the world and to not look at that. I don't know how anybody can look at what you said rationally and be outraged. You'd have to be a real fucking piece of shit to get angry at that enough to think that you should lose your ability to make a living. You should lose your job. But that's what people love to do. They love to get people fired. I mean, it's one of the more invasive aspects of social media. The social justice warrior types that will try to get people fired from their job and they will organize and attack and they're trying to get a result. to get a result. And when they get a result, like these turtle rock dummies who fired you,

they, they feel like they've claimed victory, but there's no victory there. You know, you went on to get a better job. They went on to get fucked over the whole thing turned into a big shit fest and online it became this hot point of debate. And I think ultimately they should learn and everyone should, everyone should learn. That's the thing I, what I would want to do and what i keep doing and i didn't it didn't stop at all by the way i love i'm okay with being the provocative guy right provocation doesn't always have to be a negative word right there's anytime you evoke an emotion it's because you're saying something distinct you're saying you're not being just sameness and muted and and and average and completely agreeable i like being the guy who has poignant thoughts, who wants to share a different angle

and a different perspective with as many people as I can and just try to keep the conversation moving forward because what you end up seeing and what people are trained into doing, which happened with my whole thing, is they get trained into taking a side and then closing off the other side. You see this a lot with, do you have any, do you have any like Facebook friends that are like,

like one, like some who are either super religious or some who are super atheist and you watch some of the arguments they get in and you watch the, the aftermath of them. Like I had a, I had like a diehard atheist friend of mine who, who would always argue with, with, with Christians, always argue with anybody who says like, thank God for being here for me through this hard time. He would even go on that post and argue and debate with them. Like he's kind of just that guy. He's that guy at the party. And so what I noticed that he would keep doing is he'd get into these arguments and then he would defriend all of the religious people. And when I take a step back and I observe his behavior, what he's doing is he's surrounding himself with more and more like-minded people. And he's removing any other discourse that,

like how you don't evolve unless you debate, unless you have a conversation, right? So he's just surrounding himself with more of these like-minded people who share his ideas. And then he's ranting and venting with those group of like-minded people about how angering the other side makes them. So now he's not even having a, like a debate with the other side. He's just having this circle jerk with his own, with his own group of friends about, about what they assume the other side thinks and means and believes. And so you take that with any issue or, or, um, with any set of values that you have, it's the same thing. Anytime that you cut off ties with another person, you can, you could call that, well, I just surround myself with people who make me happy.

But I call that almost like, if that's the case, then you kind of forfeit the right to be mad at me for having a different opinion. Because if you're not going to come in to the table and understand what my opinion is and have a conversation with me about where I'm coming from, then, I mean, you kind of lose the right to make up your mind about what I think and believe. That's a very good point. It's a very good point. As long as you look at it reasonably, and as long as you look at it objectively and saying, am I getting anything good out of this? Like, for example, you arguing with these people online that you don't want to argue with. You go to their Twitter feed, look at what they're saying to you, and you go, what am I doing? Why am I getting involved with them? I don't want to engage with this person because it's pointless to me. Like in that sense, like, well, no, you don't

need to let that person into your life. And if you read some ridiculous, inflammatory, stupid shit that someone's writing, you can make a value choice. You can make a choice. Like, you know what? My, my time is very valuable and I just, I I want to defriend this guy. I don't want to be involved. But there is something that's going on in this culture that I think is happening because of this incredible new ability to communicate and form these groups of like-minded people where you get this massive confirmation bias in these groups. And because of that, they reject outright any notion of debate upon these issues. And this is a big problem right now in universities. It's a huge problem where people don't want to be offended. And they're trying to create safe spaces.

And they're trying to create places where you can't say things that they might think are offensive. But you might think are totally reasonable. Like your tweet. Like your tweet in a lot of universities would thought to be would be deemed incredibly offensive Even though it's it's a legitimate subject of debate. It's a legitimate subject of debate Like why why try to change this old fuck? He's gonna be dead in a month. What do you give a shit? Why are we wasting energy on this exactly so many bigger issues that we face every day? We're involved in a lot of war right now. And yet we're worrying about Donald fucking Sterling.

Yeah. You know. And anytime that you say that now like you run the risk of is Joe Rogan a racist. Does he not care about race relations in the United States. And it's like that's not the point. Like. But you don't run that risk. That's not true.

You run that risk with idiots. It's not a reasonable risk. You know. It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. And it's not. It's not. And that's where your company fucked up. Because it's not a reasonable...

If you look at what you wrote, firing someone for that is not a reasonable reaction. If you look at what you wrote, being infuriated at you and wanting your job and wanting your head and wanting you to pay and wanting you to publicly apologize, that's not a reasonable reaction either. to pay and wanted you to publicly apologize. That's not a reasonable reaction either. This idea that everyone has to acquiesce, that everyone has to bow down to the masses. And anytime there's anything controversial, you're best off just keeping your mouth shut. You're best off just not communicating and not projecting your thoughts for fear of other people disagreeing and then the hate and the anger. It's like you're just... What does that world look like, diluted down generation over generation?

Is that really the world you would want to be in? It's not America, I'll tell you that. It's not my America. Yeah, it's a land of pussies. It's ridiculous. It's just... You said the confirmation bias is probably the best way to put it. It's also the, no pun intended, the way we look at it, black and look at it like there's no there's no gray area with a lot of these people so

if there's um in gaming another big issue right now is feminism and and gamergate and um and so the you know you you take a feminist activist who's saying some stuff and if you are to which by the way let's say i wholly support equal rights, gender equality, all forms of equality. I think people should be deemed as who they are as people and what they're saying and what they're bringing to the world. It doesn't matter about your age, gender, sexual orientation, nothing. So the, but let's say that I'm talking to a feminist and she says something that I think is just wrong. I think it's a bad opinion. It's an opinion form based on a bias or it's a, it's an invalid stat. And I argue with her for for one second I'm immediately a misogynist I'm immediately

a sexist because I opposed one point of her platform and now suddenly I'm an anti again again only two idiots sure only two people that aren't looking at things objectively and only two people that are coming into it with a bias in the first place but is it just is it just idiots because let's say let's say you're that feminist right let's say you're that feminist, right? Let's say you're that activist. And let's say you're a really smart person and you've done a lot of research and you're just you're so you're a smart person, but you're so invested in your mission. You're so invested in what you're fighting for that you forget just for one minute. For one minute, you forget that there's another side to it, that there's other perspectives, there's other ways of looking at an issue,

even just for one second and you say something and then a bunch of people retweet it and then it looks bad for the guy. You know, in a way, that person who's the smart person technically influenced a lot of that, like, negative shit from happening that then transpired. And so in a lot of ways, it's like having a conversation with even the smart people who think that they're leading activism and they're leading, they're leading the charge on things. You know, it's trying to educate that tier of people who can

be spoken to reasonably to understand that, like, you know, you need, you need to be more open minded. And the second, the second that you push someone away, you're already, you're already like, like abandoning your cause, your cause should be bringing more people in the second that you react to what what someone else said and you push them away like that, you're technically, you know, you're the one, not technically, you're the one doing the wrong thing. Well, the problem with this conversation right now is it's kind of vague and we're not talking about very specific statements that could be debated on their merit versus this idea of immediately using an ad hominem like you're a misogynist That is the best way to shut down any sort of debate immediately call you a racist Just really a sexist. I mean that's that is the that's the feminism playbook the the dumb feminism playbook not the intelligent feminist that Look at the reality of the world and see equality inequality and want to correct that and don't hate men.

Like there was this woman that was doing something for Google ideas or I forget what the exact thing was, but she was arguing with people on Twitter. And one of the things she said is I eat men for breakfast. Like, okay, you're a fucking ridiculous human. What you eat everyone of the opposite gender so are you in a are you in a gender war it's like is this do you want to create equality for women or do you actually want to make up for all the men who rejected you or shit on you or dumped you or broke your heart or or whatever whatever, or whatever it is. What is it? Is it you have

picked a team and you're fighting for that team like the dolphins versus the 49ers? Because that's what it seems like. And that is what it is. It's Mac versus windows. I mean, it's, it's fucking Android versus iPhones. People pick fucking teams. They get crazy. It's Chicago versus New York. Fuck LA. I'm from San Francisco. It's the same goddamn thing. And you decide, you know, I'm a feminism and I'm a feminist and men fucking suck. Yeah. Well, no, men don't suck. Men are humans. You know, women don't suck either. They're humans. Individuals in each gender suck. And the idea that you're going to be on team vagina and it doesn't have any rotten players, you're fucking crazy. You're crazy.

You're instantly crazy. If any man tries to say that all men are amazing, that guy's a fucking idiot. Right. Like, are you looking around? Are you talking to people? Have you looked at history? Have you taken a poll recently of the opinions of these fucking guys with dicks? It's nonsense.

There's a lot of guys who are shitheads. Shitheads. Absolutely terrible. Donald Sterling's one of them. Shitheads. Maybe. I mean, I don't know. I mean, based on what he said.

Especially in issues of equality. Yes. There's no side should be losing. One side doesn't have to win and the other side having to lose. Well, we shouldn't be on teams. It should be the human race. Right. You know, I'm big fans of a lot of women. I think a lot of women have achieved some

fucking incredible, amazing thing. And I think there's a lot of men that I think are disgusting. Right. There's a lot of men that I think are losers and they're annoying and they make excuses for their failures and they, it's never about them. It's always about, they got fucked over. Like, oh, they're fucking brutal and boring and tiresome. And they are roadblocks. They're roadblocks for conversations. They are blood clots for progress. I mean, there's a lot of people like that out there, both genders. And I think that, you know, this whole idea of feminism and, you know, one of the things that happened that I thought was really hilarious. I don't remember what it was about but I retweeted something So I retweet things that are provocative with her. I don't agree with them

I don't believe that a retweet should be an endorsement I think but it triggers thought it makes people have a thought in their head for one moment of the day So this woman who is a feminist called me an MRA. So what the fuck is that? So I had to google it It's a men's rights activist so I'm like hold on are you really mocking me for supporting men's rights when you're a feminist like are you you're mocking it you're openly mocking the the idea of men's rights but meanwhile you're supporting female rights like this is preposterous you're a crazy person you're a female rights. Like, this is preposterous. You're a crazy person. You're a crazy person lost in this constant struggle.

And then I went to her Twitter page and checked her out. Of course, she's morbidly obese and she has pink hair. So she's a mess, right? But that's the real cause of all this strife and anxiety and anger. It has virtually nothing to do with the issue itself. These issues become green lights. For some people, yeah. For some people.

I completely agree. In that particular case, it was certainly true. But I think that this feminism and gaming thing, like, boy, I've looked at both sides of this. It's convoluted on both ends. Oh, yeah. The hate that these women who are involved in video game development have gotten from men is fucking disgusting of course i mean the harassment and then people say oh the death threats aren't even real like what the fuck ever

they still get them you know i mean if and they're and they're not just it's not just i'm gonna kill you it's so dark it's so Yeah Yeah, I mean there's way more violence being directed at them You know whether it's real or not, but in print that it is directed at the men that are supposedly the oppressors, right? You know You're not seeing like a bunch of women saying we should get together and cut all these guys dicks off and stuff them down Their mouth and make them choke to death on it and cut all these guys' dicks off and stuff them down their mouth and make them choke to death on it.

But this whole fucking battle, like at the root of it all, it should be a battle about what should be, what developing games should be about. What is the best way to make a really quality game that people are going to enjoy? And what is the best way that all these people can interact with each other? It shouldn't be about like, well, we need 10 women because we have 10 men

and the women should have an equal say because, no, the men shouldn't even have an equal say. Your ideas should stand on their own merit. I hate the idea of quotas. Across most issues,

especially when you talk about police having quotas for the number of certain races they need to investigate. That's wrong. And at the same time, on the other side, with this issue, it's like, yeah, I hate the idea that you need to hire

so many of these people just because, right? Just to keep the balance equal. It's a horseshit idea. And there's some real clear areas in life where you know it's a horseshit idea. The NFL is one of them, okay? If there was a quota in the NFL where the NFL needed a certain amount of women to play

as linebackers, do you know how fucked up football would be if you needed to have, you know, how many linebackers are there? Three. If you needed to have at least one woman. Do you know how fucking horrific and preposterous those games would be?

Everybody would just shoot straight for the chick and run her over. Right. And then you'd be accused of sexism because you keep giving that girl concussions. But she's not qualified for that position. That position belongs to some square-jawed fuckhead from Indiana who's been taking steroids since he was a baby. That's the guy you want for that job. Right. You want some 500-pound fucking gorilla that's going to stop people from crossing that space.

That's it. And that's the clearest example of a quota. And the same could be said creatively. Like the idea that you want a certain amount of women or a certain amount of men. Nonsense, nonsense. What is the content? What is the quality of your ideas?

How much time do you spend focusing on these ideas? Which, by the way, has nothing to do. It's not like what you're saying is that women aren't as capable of doing that job. But what you're saying is there may not. It's not about that. It's about who's in front of you at the time and who do you want to put in that position. And what are you going to care about at the end of the day? the time and who do you want to put in that position. And what are you going to care about at the end of the day? You're going to care

about the contribution that's being made. There's this amazing interview that Ronda Rousey did recently in Australia because she's supposed to be fighting, well she is fighting, in a couple weeks in Australia and it's the biggest UFC event ever. Headlined by a woman. Okay? 70,000 seats in Australia.

And this woman does this interview or does this questions her this this media scrum and she says um how do you feel we're having an issue here in australia with uh equality of pay for women's football how do you feel about equality of pay in the UFC? And this is what, it's such a stupid question because she makes more money than anyone in the sport. She's the number one earner in the UFC. And she goes,

look, I get paid the most out of anyone in the UFC and I'm a woman and I don't get paid that much because Dana and Lorenzo, the owners of the company wanted to do something nice for the ladies. She's like, I get paid the most because I put the most asses in the seats and more people want to come to see me because I'm the best. And when she said that, everybody cheered and they were booing when this lady had this question.

But her question's preposterous. It's a ridiculous question because you're talking to the number one earner in the sport who happens to have a vagina. Right. You know, she got there through the quality of her work and the amount of eyes that she attracts because of that work. That's, it's that simple. It's that simple that what she's been able to do, the, the outlier status that she has being this beautiful woman who kicks people's asses at being unusual, it generates a significant amount of money, so much money that she makes more money

than anybody else so this idea that like you're supposed to pay women the same amount that you pay men well well what if only half the people go to see the women do you still have to pay them the same amount well that's a shitty business model because then you're not going to make as much money yeah it's that's a tough way to i mean it's it's a tough way to look at it it's a tough uh concept to unpack for a lot of people, I feel like. I don't know why. I mean, they think that it's supposed to be one for you and one that? Where she was, there's the huge, uh, she wrote a big open letter about how she didn't get paid as much as Bradley Cooper did, uh, during the American also movie. And, and, and for a whole bunch of reasons. Uh, and, and, okay, that's fair. Like I, I am okay. I want to hear, I want to hear the argument,

right. But the argument that I heard was, was incomplete, right? Um, how about the number of lines? Both of them spoke in the movie, right? How about the number of lines both of them spoke in the movie right how about the number of minutes both of them spent on screen in the movie um how about the number of days she even went to work compared to the number of days he went to work to be on set and to do filming right and and so when you look at that quantitatively you go well why why would you be paid the same amount as him for for a fourth or fifth lead role in that movie right well you look at it quantitatively she actually got paid more per minute than he did. Sure. There you go. And then what you don't hear her talking about, of course, and I don't like

this argument either, because there's no, again, there's no reason that the other side needs to lose for one side to win. It shouldn't be about that. But of course, then you look at the new movie that she's in where she's getting paid more than any of her male co-stars. And you don't talk about that. Right. And, and so it's almost like this, we, we, we get angry and outraged about things when they're convenient to be angry and outraged about. And we don't, we don't call it out on the bullshit when it's the double standard, when it's on the other side of that curve. Well, I give her a pass because the whole world saw her asshole and it wasn't her idea. You know, I mean, I think she's probably emotionally wrecked because of that. And there's also probably a lot of people in her ear telling her she got fucked over

and agents and managers. A lot of people say, hey, you can you could go out and you can you can talk about this. This is the right time to talk about this. Right. Yes. And again, that's that that's that smart people who have figured out how to manipulate the masses emotions into into getting profit, into getting eyeballs, into getting ratings, into getting good things for them and i i'm always against that well the argument is interesting you know the argument is very interesting like who should be getting paid

what and why should you be getting paid more but the reality is you're going to have a really hard time getting sympathetic voices or sympathetic ears rather when you're making millions of dollars like oh i'm only making two million while he's making four or whatever the fuck it was boy cry me a river you're making millions of dollars and you want people to feel bad like that's kind of ridiculous and if you look at it in terms of the number of like you said the number of hours that she was on screen but who knows who knows why she said that who knows i mean she she actually she gotten shit on by this reporter once because she was at some award show and she was drunk and he wrote something

about it and she had some response you know to you know why she did it and you know that fuck this guy and like you're really worried about me because i got drunk at an award show like fuck off and and she's right. Exactly. 100%. And would she have gotten that grief if she was a man? I say no. If, you know, fucking fill in the blank, if Brad Pitt had a couple of drinks at some award show and he was liquored up and laughing and being ridiculous, he could say, hey, I was just fucked up at that award show and I had a good time, but whoops, what did I say? And no one's going to say, boy, I'm really worried about Brad Pitt. So no one's, no one's saying that inequality doesn't exist. It definitely exists. And, and as long as we're having pragmatic

conversations about it and we're staring it in the face, cause it is an ugly issue. It's a scary issue, but as long as we're not taking teams and rattling pom poms, as long as we're not, we're not just, just, just cutting off the lines and making boundaries and as long as we're not just cutting off the lines and making boundaries, as long as we're constantly having that conversation, and we're not looking for someone else to get hurt in the process of having that conversation, then as long as we're still talking about it, we're going to be making progress. I think what you just said is so important. As long as you don't want other people to get hurt,

I think that's a really important point of it, that you don't want to hurt the other people What you don't want to hurt team dick in order to prop up team vagina? Yeah, don't don't make me scared don't make me scared to participate like I've got after that whole Donald Sterling thing with me I was I absolutely was scared for like months like maybe I shouldn't tweet anymore But of course I came back to my senses and I thought that's ridiculous. I shouldn't I shouldn't feel that way I shouldn't be pushing away from the table because some bad shit happened to me. That made me want to talk about things even more.

I mean, wanting to make people learn that that's not the way you get your way or that's not the way that you make a point is by bringing someone else down. Yeah. bringing someone else down. Yeah. Well, I think it's also companies get scared and they get scared of backlash and boycotts and they make executive decisions. And those executive decisions are oftentimes only made in those, in that context, in a large company form. Like that's the only time, like if there's just a couple of people. Like you're saying you don't see it. Yeah. I don't see it, but I'm not going to see it. I don't care. If I said something like that and people got upset, I'd go, whatever.

I'd say something else. I'd say something even more outrageous. I would keep it going. I don't care. Because I'm not going to give... If I get fired by the UFC, I'd be like, oh, well, hey, guys, loved working for you. Still support the company. Great time.

But I'm doing five other things at the same time. And one of the reasons why I do that it's i do it it's calculated i don't like only having one job because i don't like worrying about losing that job i don't want to worry about shit especially if i have to worry about something that would impede on my ability to speak freely right i'm not interested you know that's why i'm not interested in network gigs those are not fun because you have to fucking watch everything you say they want to take over your social media account You know that's what happens when you get on a television show they want to be able to tweet for you They want your pet like I was talking to Arsenio Hall recently, you know he had that Arsenio Hall show

Yeah, that came back, and he can't get it onto his Facebook He couldn't use his Twitter. Like, they owned it. A lot of YouTubers are going through the same stuff right now, too. A lot of YouTubers who are signing TV deals are coming back and going, this is not what I wanted for my brand and my audience, right? Exactly. They're stealing your people. And then they tweet for you. And they want you to tweet promotional things.

And they want you to, you know, promote your show and live tweet your show. And, well, we'll do it for you so they're going to do it in your voice this was amazing when i did this but it's not even you you got someone else saying that you know and i'm very adamant about if you there's just automatic tweets that'll happen on my page like if something gets uploaded to youtube but if you see an opinion and if it's like that there's an opinion or a joke even if the joke fails that's coming from my little fat fingers that's it and that's the only way i would do it and i i think that that's what i love when i tweeted you too i think i i asked about like your producer for the

show and you're like dude it's me like what like this is you're talking to me right now you're not talking to some other person well that you know i mean it it's Jamie. Jamie's over there. You can talk to him. But I just think that, I just think we live in a strange time. And it's very important during this strange time to keep your sanity. And to keep your ability to express yourself. Because, like you said, as soon as you're afraid of speaking your opinion, as soon as you think about typing something that you really believe in and you say you know What it's not worth the risk. I would like to keep these ones and zeros showing up in my bank account Let me just back off that well

Who are you then right because you're not you're not who you are you're you're a slave you're a slave of the system the cliched You know phrase right at that point You're a slave to the system and look look down three or four generations down the line of that and what does it look like? It's not a place that I want to live. We're all just these like diluted down versions of each other that are identical and the same and don't have opinions and voices. People don't want to hear that either. They want to hear those tweets or read those tweets. When you write something like that and they go, yeah, that is fucked up. This chick just recorded him and then not just recorded him, but broadcast it to the world sold it to

whatever outlets or somebody did well ever everyone ended up saying what i said i was ahead of the i was way ahead of the curve i said it like like the day after it all happened right and i was the first i was the first one through the breach and i got fucking slammed for it right but everybody ended up ultimately having that opinion about it and and yeah at the end of the day like she you know she now then then she got sued by um by his now ex-wife because like she was getting showered with gifts that were from her estate and all sorts of and it's like yeah you got to realize that and all this is hearsay by the way i don't know anything about the the facts but allegedly is a good word allegedly you got to imagine that she uh that that you know something was happening, you got to imagine that she was, like,

was trying to get some money instead of releasing those tapes. And then Sterling was like, fuck off. Like, do whatever you want with the tapes, right? Like, I can totally see how that happened. Maybe not, like, maybe that's not how it went down, but I could totally see that playing out like some episode of The Entourage, right?

Where it's like, where you just don't know how, the motives were not pure. Yeah, an episode of The Entourage, but funny. It's different I think that what I think what's going on with with her and him is she's getting Look, it's prostitution. It's really clear and simple. I mean, there's she's not fucking that guy She thinks she's hot like if you're having sex with someone you should probably be attracted to them or be getting something out of it But we love that we love the reality the way the life real life is like become an episode of any reality TV show that You've seen and people and for the same reason that reality TV is so successful people love it's why Donald Trump's campaign is so successful

Right now because it's it's a living breathing incarnation of reality TV You're absolutely right a hundred percent and we love it and we support it and we vote and we say yes Just like we would vote for reality TV Well, it makes it exciting all of a sudden instead of someone saying some canned shit that you know A team of speech writers work. He's like I want to put up a wall to Mexico and put my name on it What the fuck you know it becomes exciting and it's a way his NBA team did we know does he have one? I'm just we would if we did. But it's a year away. So right now it's just fun.

It's just fun silliness until it gets down to whatever fucking corporate criminals they're actually going to put into the position of actually running the country. So right now it is reality TV. It's what it is. It's the most interesting game in town right now. It's a sport that everybody has to watch for whatever fucking reason. You at least have to know the score. Yeah. I mean, that's also ultimately comes back to the mainstream media. They're the ones who are technically leading the charge.

They're the ones who everybody is kind of queuing off of and everybody is being influenced by and that's also something that I'm constantly going to be at odds with. I'm always going to fight that. Yeah, and mainstream media itself is just a money-making machine. This idea that mainstream media news is actually their sole purpose is to disseminate information, to educate the masses, and to keep you informed about all the happenings in the world.

It used to be that way. Oh, it used to be that way. It used to be. When it was broadcast, when it was a utility. It was essentially a utility. Well, it used to be that way. It used to be. When it was broadcast, when it was a utility. It was essentially a utility. Well, it still exists in the form of online journalism. I mean, what's going on now, today, when you see something like The Guardian printing that Ed Snowden, all the revelations, when no one else wanted to touch it. I mean, he went to other people first, and they said no.

So that's real journalism. And they said no so that's real journalism when when someone prints something incredibly controversial But something they think is important that's gonna piss off the entire country wiki leaks. That's real journalism But it happens it happens so infrequently because they were so scared they were terrified they should be Edward Snowden's living in Russia and and a fucking Homeboy the pale ghost what the fuck's his name? Julian Assange. Julian Assange is holed up in a fucking embassy. He can't leave. He's stuck in a house. It's all madness. It's all madness. I mean, those two people are arguably two of the most important figures of the 21st century when it comes to establishing what is the current state of the government, when it comes to surveillance, when it comes to the spreading of actual information about what's going on in the world?

Where are we at? Well, those two guys are responsible for two gigantic leaps of revelation where everybody's had to take a step back, especially Edward Snowden. Everybody's had to take a step back. What the fuck is happening when I send a text message? Am I just texting Jamie and calling him a big queen? Or am I going to get in trouble with people? What's going to happen? Is someone going to read some of my joke texts to

one of my friends, take it out of context, and get me fired for that? But that's the world we live in today. We live in a very weird time. And in these weird times, the idea that CNN is going to kick you the fucking real deal they're gonna drop the real knowledge on Fox News they don't give a fuck about you they're just trying to sell commercials it's all they're doing and every time that you click on one of those clickbaity articles every time you click on one of those sensational tweets and hit their page you're part of the problem you're the one positively reinforcing that business model in a way I think honestly that

it's beautiful that they operate in this way because they're sealing their own demise i really do believe that i believe fox news and cnn and all these people are ultimately they're on a path they can't get off and that path leads to being irrelevant it's gonna happen how long is that burn though man because i know right right when social media came out when twitter was invented and when facebook was invented people were saying the same thing they're like is this the end of dude media how long has it been around really not around a couple of years in a couple of years we've seen some massive changes yeah i mean really incredible and some bad like what happened to you but i think that what that is is this new found ability

this newfound ability this newfound ability that people didn't earn and they just have and they don't they're irresponsible with it they don't know what they're doing with it they also don't understand what communication what it really means to bra and they don't they're not taking into account other people gonna perceive them like here's a perfect example Justine Sacco. You know her story. Yes.

Everyone knows her story. If you don't know it, she was a publicist. She was about to get on a plane to go to Africa. And she goes, I'm going to Africa. Hope I don't get AIDS. Just kidding. I'm white. LOL.

And she went to sleep, woke up in Africa, fired, and the whole world hated her. And she deleted to sleep, woke up in Africa, fired, and the whole world hated her. Yeah. And she deleted her Twitter account, and she still hasn't recovered. I mean, doesn't she, what, she work for some game company now that just got in trouble? FanDuel. What is it? FanDuel.

Say it again? FanDuel. She works for FanDuel. FanDuel. And she got in trouble recently. What happened? She didn't get in trouble. Her name's just come out because they've gotten in trouble.

Yeah. And she's speaking for them as their publicist oh but how hilarious is that you know well yeah they're they're amidst it's kind of it's kind of like me whenever i come to another company right it's like it's like i have to of course answer that question and people are talking about oh it's xyz company hired josh olin again right yeah but what you said was nothing like what she said but what she said she had like what she said. But what she said, she had like fucking 10 followers. She thought she was being funny. Like she's probably on Xanax or something like that.

She probably popped an Ambien. At the end of the day, it's a shitty joke. Whatever. It's a shitty joke. We've all had shitty jokes. You've had plenty in your career. A fuckload. I'm not a comedian and I have shitty jokes all the time.

And Twitter, you know, it doesn't matter if you don't agree with what she said. You shouldn't want what happened to her to have happened to her. Yes, exactly. And people wanted it. They wanted it so badly. They were calling for it. They were putting her head on a pike and demanding it. There was another girl.

I can't remember her name, but she took a picture in front of she was at like the Arlington Cemetery or something. She was in front of a sign that said like no shouting or quiet please. Quiet please be respectful or some sign like that. And so she took a picture in front of it where she was like pretending like she was yelling. And you know just because

that's what she thought was funny. Now she put it online and it went crazy because people were talking about how she was disrespecting our troops and our soldiers and the lost ones. And then, of course, she goes out and talks about it. She goes, if you look at my page, that's just what I do whenever I see a sign. When I see a sign that says no smoking, I put up a fake cigarette in my lips. When I see a sign that says no soliciting, I pretend like I'm soliciting.

It's her shtick is she just does the opposite thing that signs say. And when you understand that context, you realize she's just being funny. Why would she lose her job over that but it's this actually lose her job I don't know actually I don't know enough about it I shouldn't be talking out of my ass right now but whatever it was there was our it was a big thing there's a big thing and that's why I had a comment and of course I defended her and she was doing media and whatnot of course it's insane but again it's just the green light it's all it is it's just cunts hitting the gas and they just i found one we found a target cold shoot oh fire her

that's what it is when the cease of the line thing happened there's a new york times article that a man from zimbabwe wrote and it's uh in zimbabwe we do not cry for lions and he talked about lions that have killed his family the guy lost his leg to a poisonous snake bite the guy who wrote the article i mean he's like his his take was like look africa the wild of africa is not your friend is it's fucking terrifying it's beautiful to behold but it is absolutely terrifying so this idea that you call this lion cecil and that we're all crying because we've lost Cecil fuck Cecil You know I mean, that's what he's saying all I did. I mean all I did was Retweet that article yeah, and I got

So many fucking people that were angry at me. What was the article? It was the angle article in the article was in Zimbabwe. We do not cry for lions. Okay? That was the title of in the article was in Zimbabwe. We do not cry for lions. That was the title of the article It was written by I don't know if he's a student I forget what he's living in America, but he's from Zimbabwe right and Well, we don't we don't we don't understand we have no perspective outside of our bubble that we live in exactly. Well also This guy is just giving his point of view as a person who's from Zimbabwe. You know?

I mean, this is his... All I did was retweet the article. And so many fucking people were angry at me. They were so mad at me. I can't believe you're supporting this. You know, what that guy did was... He's a piece of shit and a murderer. As if you just went and stepped on a kitten.

Yeah, exactly. I'm hitting kittens with baseball bats over the fence into your yard. It's just a green light. You're right. It's this endorphin drip that we seek. Yes. And we get it through this feedback loop of, well, we get it through anger. Anger releases it.

And we get it through the feedback loop of seeing someone else paying for something that you didn't agree with or that you didn't like. And I'm sometimes too much of an optimist, but I'm also, I try to look at things objectively outside the context of culture and what we expect of today. And I look to the future. And what I'm looking at is there's a trend. And the trend is from the moment that human beings invented language to the time they started writing things down to the time they started distributing that written word to the time they figured out how to broadcast and how to get ideas out there through television and radio to the internet what i'm seeing is the trend is a shorter distance between human beings. There's a trend, the trend is connectivity. And I think ultimately we're dealing with this adolescent period in this

connectivity where all these people that have never thought about the idea of projecting these words. Like if you get a guy like Brian Williams on TV and he's bullshitting about going to Iraq, that's a guy that's responsible for his words okay that's a guy that's a professional broadcaster he should know what he's saying when he gets on television he sees that red light he's getting paid to do that he's getting paid he's he's prepared for it his entire fucking life okay that's a guy who understands the the the repercussions of his words the average person has the same ability to reach human beings as brian williams when justine sacco wrote that tweet she probably reached as much people or as many people as brian williams did when he lied

about going to iraq or getting shot down in Iraq. It's probably incredibly similar. Yes. And that's a new thing. That is a really, really, really new thing. I think as it gets closer and closer, it's going to move from the written word, it's going to move from type and video, and it's going to be some sort of a brain-to-brain interface. And when that starts happening, and I don't think we're far away from that.

I think we're a decade or two at most. When that starts happening, this is all going to be bullshit. I'm going to be able to read your thoughts. I'm not going to wonder whether or not you're reacting because you were beaten as a child or your boyfriend dumped you. I'm going to know. And we're going to know each other in a really weird, intense, intimate way that I don't think we could possibly understand today. No. When you talk to people that lived during the fucking, during the Inquisition, and you told them about Twitter. Walk up to them and hand them this device and see what they do. So they'd shoot you for witchcraft.

Well, they didn't have guns. They'd fucking stab you or they'd fucking whatever. But we're going to look at something like that, something in the future, and probably the fairly, I don't mean, I want to say no more than 20 years. I think it's in our lifetimes. That might be ambitious.

Well, maybe not. When I look at people, one of my idols is like Elon Musk. When I look like a truly visionary person who's also a really smart dude, just a genius on every level. When a guy like him is talking about AI scaring him. Yes. Because and when you think about, yeah, with the way that we're already right now, like fusing, you know, computer chips in with brains and helping to restore language centers. Well, what happens when that AI computer chip can directly interface with your brain and learn about it and learn about its circuitry and understand it in a way that and at a rate that we it took us this many years to learn and it's going to learn it overnight and in a second. Yeah, that's a scary idea. I did a podcast with Sam Harris recently and the last half hour of the podcast was all about AI. It was all about a conference that he had went to and he had gone to this conference with one idea about what AI was and left terrified and left saying, well, this is not just something to be fearful of. This is something inevitable. And Elon Musk, well, this is not just something to be fearful of. This is something inevitable.

Yeah. And Elon Musk's statement that we're summoning the demon was just horrific. It's a terrifying thought. Chilling that it came from the mouth of such a smart dude, too. But it's going to happen. I think we are, I mean, my way of describing it, and I've been talking about this for a long time, that I think we are some sort of an electronic cocoon. We are the electronic caterpillar that's going to become the butterfly. We are developing into something.

Like, when a caterpillar creates a cocoon, it doesn't know what the fuck it's doing. It's not reading manuals. It didn't go to school for it. It's not like meeting together with other caterpillar support groups and and are you prepared for your transition into butterflydom no they just fucking do it they don't even know why this is the next thing that i do now is i make this cocoon i think that's what we're doing i think that's what we're doing that our obsession with technology our obsession with innovation i really firmly believe that we are fueling even through our obsession with materialism because materialism ultimately you you always want the

biggest best thing the newest latest greatest and the companies have to keep up so they're all competing you know nexus has to come up with a better phone because the iphone 6s is out and then that you know fucking boom boom boom boom boom and it keeps going faster and faster and faster until you you're getting your dick sucked by a robot. And then that robot is deciding that it wants to take over your house and turn it into a nuclear fusion center. I mean, who the fuck knows what 100 years from now looks like or 1,000 years from now looks like. But I think that what we're seeing with all this electronic outrage,

all these people communicating, we're seeing these initial blips of this newfound ability to communicate, this newfound awakening. It's an important step in the process of what you're saying or necessary It's it's inevitable, but I think that I'm very optimistic about where that's going to lead I think the beauty is and if we all realize that we're all just human beings and that Competition is actually good because the real competition is with yourself to do your best. And you are inspired by other people who are doing their best. You compare yourself to them and instead of shitting on them, instead of trying to put them down, you look at them and get inspired. Or maybe not.

Maybe you say, I appreciate the amount of effort that person's done, but I don't want to work 12 hours a day. I don't think that's smart. I would rather surf. I think surfing's the way to go. I mean, I think I have 80 years on this planet, if I'm lucky. I want to enjoy them in as richly fulfilling a way as possible. and you should be able to do that yes what have you um are you familiar with a guy named shock fresco yes yeah he does the uh the venus project and all about resource-based economies right he i mean he he simply um you know he talks about it like we have enough resources on the planet to sustain every human being that we will have for a long time equally fairly and they could do whatever they want as long as we got rid of the dollar as long as we got rid of the need to to earn a dollar and to amass these dollars and to spend them and to enhance your life through them if we just if you take like an inventory management system that like walmart has or amazon has and scale it up to a global level and you inventory every blade of grass every tree every piece of wood every every raw material material that we have and then you

create a system that for distributing that equally and freely so that anybody can have anything at any time that they want, that's a fucking great utopia. The problem with that is it removes incentive. There's a reason why people work hard. One of the reasons why people work hard is because they want to get ahead. That's the idea, right? You want to have a nice home.

You want to have a nice home. You want to create a book. You want to, you know, you want to put together a project that ultimately reaches a lot of people. Like when you're creating a game. A teacher isn't doing what she does for the money. You know, surgeons aren't arguably doing, highly specialized surgeons aren't doing it for the money. They're doing it for maybe they had a child afflicted by a disease or researchers who do all this stuff, right? They don't live extravagant lives, but they love to research. They love to solve problems. They love to research. They love to solve problems. I think maybe there are enough people in the planet who are passionate about doing things or want to do something for a high or could want to do something for a higher reason than just money.

There's always going to be some that do. But what percentage of our population are surgeons that do things specifically because they had a child afflicted by a disease? It's incredibly minute. What percentage of our population is teachers that just want to help children? It's not that big. It's small. And I think most people are out there struggling because they want a Lexus. Most people are out there, they want to move into the house down the block. They want to, and these are not wise choices in a lot of ways because they're not engineering their life in a way that's harmonious or that's really going to prepare them for a long, healthy, happy life. They're just rat wheeling it. They're just hamster wheeling it, just fucking spinning and trying to collect shit until they die.

Transition from living as apes, trying to compete against the other apes in order to fuck and make babies, and then you get eaten by a jaguar, to live in an apartment in Los Angeles in 2015 and finding out that environment changing, when you juxtapose that with our physical transition, boy, we're not much fucking different than we were a thousand years ago. No. But the world sure as fuck is. Yeah. You'd be a fascinating guy to discuss the Fermi paradox with, I feel like. Because you said you're optimistic, so is that the ultimate doom for humanity? I don't think there's an ultimate doom. I Think humanity look if you went back to the Neanderthal days and said listen you guys are fucked Let's just enjoy your time here. Keep throwing those fucking spears at woolly mammoths, but ultimately you ain't gonna make it

What what would they do would they carry on where they keep going? What would you went back to the ancient hominids that were living in africa that had just climbed down from the trees and started experimenting with new food sources and trying to figure out tools would you say hey look guys i know you're you're trying real hard to keep your family alive and you're trying to but your family's fucked right you people are fucked you know even you figured out shoes you still have thumbs in your feet you're not gonna make it he's to be some new thing that comes after you that's going to be awesome. It's going to have a goatee. It's going to be talking on a microphone on a podcast.

That's you. You know, if you were standing in the savannas of Africa 300,000 years ago when our ancient hominid ancestors first started traveling around and figuring out hunting and all sorts of other things, you would look like a goddamn alien. If you walked out holding onto your phone and started taking pictures of them, how much different would that be than a spaceship landing in Washington, D.C. and then coming out with a ray gun and making duplicates of people?

Right. It would be probably less ridiculous if the aliens did that than you showing up in Africa half a million years ago. But I think we would react to it differently than Africa half a million years ago would have reacted to that. Maybe, but I think that our future is like the alien that comes down and reproduces people with a laser. I think that's why the alien archetype exists.

I'm very pessimistic when it comes, or very cynical when it comes to the idea of alien invasion. The idea that we've been abducted, or the people have come here from, or beings have come here from another planet. It's more likely in my mind that that archetype exists because we're extrapolating. We're going from looking at gorillas to looking at people to looking at, well, what are we going to become? We'll become this big headed thing with very little use for muscle and tissue. We're probably going to communicate telepathically. We're not going to need mouths or vocal cords. And we're probably not even going to need sex because we're probably going to reproduce through some sort of a genetic replication process created by scientists.

That's probably our future. It's probably going to be more efficient, more healthy. Our monkey bodies that need sex, we need to come and we need to feed it with food and all that. We're kind of prisoners to that. And I think slowly but surely, if you can prove that people can be more harmonious or more happy or more healthy or whatever the fuck would be the benefit in evolving past that, I think it's almost inevitable. I think that's when you look at this idea of this big headed thing with a little skinny body. Fuck, man. That's that's it's kind of obvious. Like this is where we're going.

We're becoming more and more slender. We look at us in comparison to all the other animals. Like, if you grab your dog's, like, fur, like, grab his skin, it's fucking tough. It's like they could bite each other and they don't even get hurt that much. Right. If you got bit by a dog, you're fucked, man. But dogs, like, two dogs would get mad at each other at a dog park and they bite each other and everybody's okay just walk off yeah

you need to put a little fucking you know little rubbing alcohol on his little ouchy and he's fine two days later that doesn't even look like a hole anymore we'd be fucked and i think our our soft fleshy bodies were reacting toward the lack of need to be hard. You don't need fangs anymore. You don't need a tough hide. What you need is a big brain. And what you need is technological innovation in order to catch up to this incredible electronic world that we've created. But again, only a small, tiny fraction of our society will be a part of that evolution.

The vast majority are just going to be along for the ride for that. So what does that mean for them? Why would they be along for the ride? I think those tiny fraction can create that. But just like how many people use cell phones? How many people use the internet? It's not a tiny fraction. It's the vast majority.

And I think ultimately that's what's going to happen to the entire species. I think the vast majority are going to be privy to the incredible innovations of a tiny, small, few people like Elon Musk. Those are the ones, those innovators, those geniuses. I hope so, man. And it couldn't come any sooner. Or an asteroid. We need to be thinking way bigger than than we are right now i mean you look at issues even like climate change right it's it's a bigger issue than just the united states

um it's a it's a global issue and and the sooner that we can get on board on a global agenda but man did we get far removed from the way this conversation started we did but we didn't because i think ultimately what we're talking about when we're talking about this outrage, this Twitter outrage, I think ultimately what it really boils down to is a bunch of people that are being unreasonable and they're communicating in this unreasonable way. But they're just there's they're out there. There's a lot of them. Most people like what percentage of people do you think really commented on that and got outraged? On the scheme of like America or the planet? Less than 1%.

It's way less. Less than one-tenth of one-tenth of 1%. Exactly. It's a tiny amount. So most people, this is what I think, across every issue, every communications issue, there's a general challenge. It's hard to think critically.

Critical thinking is not an easy thing to do. And I think that for a lot of people, like, take for example, when two galaxies collide together, describe what it looks like. Describe what happens if you live through that. When you pose that question...

There's no living through that. No, when I pose the question to some people, that's usually the answer, right? They go, oh, two galaxies collide and it's just shit crashing into each other and planets exploding and suns eating other stars and black holes eating each other. And the reality, though, when you think about and when you judge the magnitude of the distances between those objects, the reality is statistically it's unlikely any two objects would impact at all. They'll come close and you're going to have some gravitational effects, but the, the, the odds that any two object actually collides is really, really, really small. And so when, I think that when, when, you know, you, you pose that question to a lot of people, that's, they, they imagine this apocalyptic scenario, but it's just, it's because they

have a tough time estimating things. They have a tough time thinking outside of their bubble, outside of their own consciousness into like, you know, what could that be? It's why, it's why Google used to have the, um, that interview question, that famous one, like how many golf balls will fit in this, uh, would fit in this school bus. Right. And a lot of people criticize that as like, ah, what a dumb question. That has nothing to do with anything. And it's like, well, they want to know, do you, do you say a million, a billion or a hundred thousand, right? They want to know what scale are you, are you able to estimate the size of an object? Cause that gives, that just gives like a real quick feedback as to like, where are you on the critical thinking level? Um, so I think that when, when you, when you, when you apply that

to what we were talking about today, I think that a lot of, a lot of people have a tough time and myself included have a tough time estimating and, uh, and and and oftentimes taking a step back from whatever their current daily issue is whatever their current stress is whatever their current uh endorphin release they're seeking is whatever their current thought is and they have a tough time always keeping in perspective perspective's the big the big the key here um keeping in perspective like what the rest of the universe is and the world is and and the other people even just next door to you are going through well There was an article that I tweeted today

from Yahoo from the UK Evidence of the multiverse we might have just bumped into another universe. Hmm. What was the evidence? Yeah, well yourself Because I you know It's one of those things you have to read like four or five times in order in order to like really figure out like wait wait what are you saying so you empathize me with me here you've you've been through those nights where you click like 14 15 links deep in wikipedia and you get done and you're like in four hours have gone by and you're like

fuck i'm fried i need to go to bed right now oh Or I'll watch documentaries on hypernovas or something like that. And you try to wrap your head around the idea of a star exploding and taking out the entire solar system or many other solar systems nearby. And the fact that this is happening millions of times a day all throughout the universe. There was a documentary that they had. I don't remember was Science Channel or what channel was on but where scientists at one point in time were concerned that there was a war going on in space because they were recognizing these gamma bursts these incredible bursts of massive amounts of energy and they were happening in a repeated fashion all throughout the sky.

And they would try to figure out what the fuck was going on. Is there an alien war? Like this is like, you know. What could this be? Many decades ago. Sure. And slowly but surely, they started figuring out like, oh my God, these are exploding stars. These are novas.

And they happen all the time. And if it happens close by, that's a wrap civilization. That's a wrap world. That's a wrap oxygen. No more water. No, no, no, you're not going to need that.

It's all gone. And that is the reality of the cosmos all throughout the sky. When we look up there, look up at infinity, somewhere out there, in an impossible distance away from us boom a stars exploding and that's what they do jason silva uh cool astrophysicist guy he i know jason

yeah he does awesome youtube videos he he takes this incredibly difficult science and communicates in a way that we emotionally respond to and i love that and he had uh he was just talking about like he said one line in one of his videos somewhere where he was like, up there, that's not an up there far away place. You're in the middle of it. You're in the middle of the universe right now. And even our galaxy, right?

We have these paintings of what the Milky Way galaxy looks like. A lot of times people don't even ever have the thought, they would never need to even think about this, that we don't have a picture of what our galaxy looks like we have an artist rendition of what we think our galaxy looks like But the furthest craft we have is barely out of our own like Sun Belt It's a out of our own like gravitational pull from our own Sun so Again, just we're not even looking at it from outside not yet Yeah, photos of the and it won't happen anytime inside of our lifetimes.

No. Unless we figure out how to bypass the speed of light. That EM drive thing, man. Yeah. And even then, you know, we're talking about hundreds of millions of light years. Right. So even going at the speed of light, it's going to take a hundred million years. The most mind fucky statistic that I ever saw in one of these documentaries was they were talking about the possibility of each...

They were talking about the relative size of supermassive black holes and that every galaxy has a supermassive black hole that's one half of 1% of the mass of the galaxy. The larger the galaxy, the larger the black hole. And they're speculating that inside that black hole may be a whole nother universe with completely different laws and that inside that universe may be other galaxies that have supermassive black holes at their center. And inside those supermassive black galaxies, there may be hundreds of billions of individual universes inside of those. And when you go inside of them, there's hundreds of billions of more individual galaxies with hundreds of billions of more individual universes inside of them. And that is ultimately intensely fractal. And it is truly infinite in that sense. And which one of those are we in right now yeah it's mind fucky but cecil was a lion and he lived in zimbabwe and he was loved donald sterling's a piece of shit don't joke about aids if you're white. Exactly. Yeah. Our lack of perspective is alarming, but it makes sense.

I mean, we still have these goddamn monkey bodies. And I think that's ultimately going to be the big pull or the big appeal of transcending this physical embodiment that we carry our consciousness in and then accepting this idea of a symbiotic relationship with some sort of micro chips and fucking fiber optic lines or whatever the hell it's gonna take form up I mean we're essentially symbiotically connected to technology already with glasses you know we need these fucking things that we've created that cover over our eyes to see better or with phones man i left my house the other day i got a hundred yards from my door and i went shit my phone it was like i left my baby on the roof like i had to turn

around like i was terrified i mean that's. I can't just go somewhere and borrow someone's phone and call my wife and go, hey, I left my phone at home. I'll be home in a couple hours. Fuck that. Well, that's why when you say that over the timeline you've seen we're getting closer and closer, the connections, more people are getting connected and we're getting connected with more people and closer. I agree technologically, but I feel like in the real physical world that we live in, we're getting further apart. psychologically, but I feel like in the real physical world that we live in, we're getting further apart. And we look at people's lives on social media, like on Instagram and Facebook and all the models who are coming out right now with their posts about Instagram models posting about

what you don't see, the side of it you don't see, right? The hundred shots that it took her to get that perfect photo and the argument she got in with her sister over take one more, take one more, take one more before she got that perfect one that you're then liking and you're then trying to compare your life to. We are pushing like our real connections and real personal lives where first of all, we're judging ourselves based by this impossible, unattainable standard on social media that that, you know, if people someone takes a bad picture, they don't upload it. They delete that one and they take a better picture and they take a better one and better one and better one until

that's the one that, that it doesn't even look, it hardly looks like them anymore. And now we're expected to measure us looking at the mirror against that perfectly lit, perfectly critiqued, careful image of what we think our next best person is like. And that's got some really weird implications to evolution. I'll give you one example real quick with Instagram is I have a little sister and I'm terrified of when every time she gets another social media account because I'm like, oh no, like, you know, where is this going to lead? When I think about young kids, let's say impressionable teenagers who are going through the most important biological and neurological development phase of what will be their adult life. They're coming into their identity.

And they have access to this dopamine drip, this endorphin drip in their brain that generations before never had that kind of access to. When a girl can upload a photo onto Instagram and start refreshing the dozens of, you're hot, baby, sexy, baby, nice smile, pretty girl. dozens of you're hot, baby, sexy, baby, nice smile, pretty girl. And she does that during a time when she's otherwise dealing with a difficult, conflicting emotion inside of her. And that's now her drug. That's her escape from otherwise facing that reality and growing through it the way generations before did. I'm not saying it's necessarily bad or wrong. Maybe this is a better way to go through that stage of your life, but maybe it's not. Maybe that's bad that you can so easily bypass all that hard shit you would have otherwise had to have dealt with internally. What is that doing to evolution? You know,

we don't know. We won't know for a long time until we look back on it and go, that was, that was probably not great. Or maybe we look back on it and go, that's what led us to where we are, but it's got to have some impact. And I And that kind of stuff, you know, I deal with on a daily basis as I try to figure out, like, how do I want to bring my games on these platforms? And I want my games to interact with people in these ways. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we really don't know. We're just guessing.

These children are guinea pigs. Right. They're growing up in this weird world. Right. I mean, I grew up in a world where you could bullshit. You could lie. Nobody knew. You couldn't just Google. Oh, the earth is only fucking 35 miles across, dude. Don't worry about it. Like now people Google it and they go, you're an idiot. It. Exactly, because he Googled it. I think I have this other thought about these things and this progression. And I think that we look at the world, we look at everything that's going on, whether it's butterflies or elk or eagles or caterpillars. And we look at it all and we say, well, that's nature. of pillars and we look at it all and we say, well, that's nature. But we look at ourselves and because we're conscious and because we can make choices and because we can objectively look

at the risks versus rewards of each decision and debated amongst each other and seek advice from peers, we don't think of it as natural. We think of it as something that we can manipulate and something that we can change and that we can alter. But I think that human behavior might just be ultimately the most complex version of the natural world that we know. And that all of our behavior, all this stuff that we're doing, whether it's our rampant materialism, our obsession with attention and technology, all this stuff is leading to what I said before, that this electronic caterpaterpillar, I think that what we are,

what we're doing right now is totally natural. And this obsession with checking your likes on your aspect to make sure that everybody thinks you're hot. This is, this is all just going to fuel your desire to get a better camera. It's going to fuel your desire to get a new phone or to support the newest social media platform that's going to allow your ass to shake in a much more enticing way. It's going to get you even more likes and hearts and fucking thumbs ups and emojis. I think it's natural.

I really do. I mean, I don't know what we can do about it other than communicate our concerns about the potential downfalls of this behavior and this kind of thing. Confront the negative. Don't shy away from it. Confront it. Solve the negative problems that are coming with it as well. Keep an open mind about it and never stop communicating. Because as soon as we do that, we've lost sight of what the goal was. And that's what's a huge problem with that company firing you.

Yeah. Because they impeded on your ability to communicate, and you communicated in a very concise, objective, analytical way. You looked at the problem and said, look, this guy, he has every right to be an old bigot in the privacy of his own home. Like the fact that you got in trouble for that, it shows the repercussions and the downfalls of this new time. And when we stop communicating. Yes. And especially when, well, also when you let in too many voices. Like how about you and that guy sitting down? You and that guy that wanted to fire you.

Right. Have a sit down and have a fucking conversation. Right. I mean, don't shut off my email, stupid. Like what are you doing? Meet at Starbucks. How about fuck you. Right. Have a sit down and have a fucking conversation. Right. I mean, not, don't shut off my email, stupid. Like, what are you doing? Meet at Starbucks. How about fuck you? Yeah. You know, I mean, wouldn't you have loved to have a few million bucks in the bank right then? Oh boy. And just go suck my dick, stupid. Oh boy. And then just go online and just do a YouTube video. Listen to what this dummy just told me. Well, I did that. They, they, they were trying to dangle severance and stuff and, and, and pay. Yeah i said fuck no to that you know i when that whole thing was unfolding

um it it got it got like a lot because so a lot of media outlets you you um i i linked you to the opian anthony they they talked about it and they completely held my back obviously because those guys are super level-headed people but but the um the the media shitstorm that started to unfold, CNN, Fox News, everybody, every major outlet was reaching out to me, trying to get me to come on their show. And I was sitting at a crossroads. I'm a communications professional. I knew that, and I had seen what happened to Justine Sacco. I think that happened for me. And I was well aware of where this could go for me in my career and my personal life. So I realized that, you know, I need to take control of the PR shitstorm. I need to be the one who makes the right moves

while the company makes all the wrong moves. And I need to get this back on track. So they didn't, you know, part of their terms, they didn't want me to do any media appearances whatsoever. Of course they wanted it to go away, right? Of course, cowards. And so I couldn't take the blood money. Good for you.

I had to, you know, make sure that... How much did that wind up costing you? a lot yeah tens of thousands of dollars good for you, fuck them I hope it cost them even more how did that guy keep his job?

the guy who fired you how did he keep his job? the culture of that company was different too it would take a long time to unpack the the complexities of how a publisher relationship works with a studio in our industry and so they were at the studio level and they just wanted to make fucking games they're artists they're creators they just wanted to make cool shit go to work and have fun doing it and then the the publisher was the one who had the business relationships they're the ones who had relationships with the NBA that they were afraid of,

but they were funding the studio's development. They didn't own the studio, but they funded it. And so when it comes down from the top where they go, oh, he can't work on the project anymore, we're not going to give you any more funding, it's like, I would have loved for someone from that company to call the bluff, because I don't think it would have ever come to that,

but they couldn't. And it sucks that they got put in that position. It sucks that no one there could have the backbone. I know how I would have handled it if I was running that company at the time. What would you have done? I would have called the bluff of the publishing company and I would have said, that's ridiculous. Wait a day, nothing is going to happen and we'll talk about it again tomorrow. And then when nothing happened and when everything goes away and no business deals were threatened, we'd go, now what was the big fucking deal? Yeah. What was the big fucking deal? Let's finish making the game. Let's not have a bunch of people mad at us because we, we, you know, trampled all over someone's constitutional rights and

let's, let's, um, you know, let's implement his good ideas. That was the other thing that they lost was all of these programs and initiatives that I was building and that I was going to take charge of and run through the game's launch cycle and keeping all of the players engaged. And all this stuff I had done before, I was going to do again for them on this new IP, this new thing that needed that work more than anything. It didn't have anything to build off of. It was starting from zero. All of that was gone. They didn't have a person to come in that could carry those, those, you know, carry that torch further and finish the job I had started. Good. Good. That's their punishment for being pussies. It sucks. It sucked for everybody. But you like your new job better.

I do like my new job better. I get, I get to, I get to make, um, and I get to make. Well, explain what your new job is, people at home. Well, so, um, so anybody who knows video games, I work for a company now called 3D Realms. Huge company. Well, they used to be a huge company. Small company now, but huge name, right? Because they're the guys who made, like, Duke Nukem. You know what I mean?

Commander Keen. Like, these are some of the most retro, old-school classics that, you know, influenced an entire industry. And is there less people working in it now? Oh, absolutely, yeah. For the last decade, where they weren't really doing anything, um, it would just, you know, shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink. So now they're, they, they had a bunch of litigation that was happening as well, um, that they were able to finally put to rest. And now the company is able to look to the future. And so they brought me on to be like, let's, let's start,

let's build this thing back up. And we're going to start with a new IP. And that new IP is called bombshell. What is an IP? What that new IP is called Bombshell. What is an IP? Intellectual property. Okay. Because I hear internet protocol. I'm like, how's that a nerd? Dork.

IP, intellectual property. It's a franchise. So Bombshell is the new brand, the new game, creating a whole new slate of characters. And it's what we want to start that sort of comeback for 3D Realms. The game, I don't know, you said you played games. Huge gamer. For a long time, for many, many years, to the point where I had to walk away. Because I was wasting way too much time playing mostly Quake.

That was the big one. I was playing Quake online, fucking 8, 10 hours a day sometimes. Yeah. But Duke Nukem, I know that there was a new one that they worked on forever it got to be a joke forever yeah but it got to be a joke like people the online joke was you know it's going to come out right after duke nukem comes out or there was all these jokes about when it would come out yeah it did come out eventually right it did come out eventually and um and it's tough for anything that that goes for 12 years of hype 12 years it was years? Yeah, it was something like 12 years. How does that happen?

Explain that to me. Well, I wasn't here for that, so I don't know all the story. You're not responsible. From what I know, yes. From what I know is the game just went through a lot of iteration. So every year, the next big thing came out,

and the game was no longer the next big thing, so they had to add some more stuff to it to try to beat the thing that just came out. And then something else came out and the game was no longer the next big thing so they had to add some more stuff to it to try to beat the next the thing that just came out and then something else came out and and so this constant trying to you know striving for perfection and there was other problems and there was lots of uh controversy you could read articles um for for you know for days literally days where people are just investigating that whole evolution of that what were they using for the 3d engine was the unreal engine it kept changing that was the thing like the engine the engine kept changing the technology kept changing the requirements kept change everything kept

changing instead of just polishing something up sticking with what you had and getting it out the door you compare that to the game we're working on now like bombshell right bombshells built on unreal engine 3 that's the last generation of your lunch and real Engine's on 4 now. It's Unreal Engine now. But imagine if, for Bombshell, we had indefinitely kept upgrading the engine, changing new technologies,

implementing new technologies, and new workflows, and new stacks, and new things breaking. It would never end. It would be a never-ending building and polishing cycle. So that was kind of what Duke, my perspective, any of what Duke Nukem was stuck in for a long time. So it was just a poor management of the project.

Yeah, and creatively, you could debate whether it was also creatively like, almost like this need for perfection, like no one pixel can be out of place, that type of thing. And people did, they pointed fingers to that whole thing. But at the end of the day, what came out was Duke Nukem Forever. And it wasn't, you know, I don't think anything could sustain like a decade of hype and ever live up to that expectation.

Was it good? Was it a good game? Did people enjoy it? No, it was a pretty infamously like poor game. No, it was a pretty infamously poor game. But again, I don't think that it was the fault of the game or the developers. I think it was maybe to some extent, but I think more than anything, it was failed by its own image. It was built up and gamers had built this expectation in their head about what it could be. And then it just wasn't. You never had a chance of living up to that. Um, imagine rebooting a, uh, like a crazy old franchise and it just never living up to it, uh, living up to what you would have expected from

that. Yeah. That kind of, it's, it's kind of impossible, right? I mean, it's, it's to have something go on for 12 years. It's like, they just have to get it out to cut their losses. To have something go on for 12 years, it's like they just have to get it out to cut their losses. Right. Yeah. So that happened finally. It's in the past. And now we're able to focus on the future, which is new IP, which is Bombshell. So you're familiar with Duke Nukem enough.

You know what that character was like? Well, back in the day, in the 90s, that kind of character works, right? Because it's a super one-dimensional character. It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Predator. Exactly. Just the perfect stereotype of what that Schwarzenegger or Stallone character was from the 80s

will reincarnate in video game form in the 90s. Right. Well, that kind of character doesn't really work anymore. Yeah, there he is. Super brooding masculinity. Come get some. Yeah. So that,

so that, that character doesn't, even that character today would have, it would have trouble playing. People come to expect more depth and complexity from, I feel like from their characters, certainly in movies and in all the video games we play. So things evolve.

So bombshell was a character. She's not one of those, but she was a character who actually originated in the Duke Nukem era. Like back in the 90s, she was concepted and conceived as a sidekick to Duke Nukem. And so when she was originally conceived, she was this kind of overly satirical version of the female sexy tie chick as well in the same way Duke was, right? Which may have played back then, but it certainly wouldn't play today in the culture that we have now with feminism and with women in gaming. And even beyond that, just simply, she wasn't a complex character. She wasn't an interesting character. She wasn't propelling necessarily that storyline. So we had to kind of go back to the drawing board with this version of Bombshell, the one that we've been working on the last couple of years. Whoa, she's badass. Yeah, well, that's even the old version of Bombshell. Whoa, she's badass. Yeah, well that's even the, that's the old version

of Bombshell. What does she look like now? So now she's much less bare midriffs, right? Much less skin. Hmm. Yeah, let's pull up that one. Down, down, down. Right above the one you had open. That one. Yes. That's the same one? No, no, no. The one where she's holding the revolver. Yes.

Yeah. So this is the noob there. Yeah, you don't see much. But over here, click on the two to the right and one down the revolver. Yes. Yeah. So this is the noob. You don't see much there. Yeah, you don't see much. But over here, click on the two to the right and one down. That one? Yes. Oh, no, that's not it either. We'll close out of this.

Just go to bombshell.com because we actually bought this domain away from, it used to be like some porn mogul had it. No, like, it's an ass. Oh, no. Yeah, so we bought it. How much did you have to pay for it? I don't know. It was before my time. But got got it away from that and now we've turned it into So she's got this bionic arm and she is a character is defined more by

Who what she's been through and and and like way very multifaceted Personalities and attributes not just traits not just physical appearance. Do you have to run this past feminism and gaming? No sure that it's okay. No, but what I need to ask for all gamers, right is to look at this and go It's not it's not easy making a strong female character that can Sustain that can appeal to both men and women. Um Tomb Raider Right, so we get to draw from awesome inspirations like Lara Croft, Sarah Connor, even Ripley. And we're able to look at like,

yeah, this works, but what makes that thing work? It's not the physical appearance. It's not what you look like. It's who you are and what you stand for. So Shelly, Bombshell, she got her nickname because she was like the foremost bomb disposal expert in the GDF. Is that how she lost her arm? It is how she lost her arm it is how she lost her arm

and so now she's talking about her like she's real oh it's kind of disturbing me dude she to us she is and and we want to see it and cosplayers can bring it to life dude oh cosplayers so um she was a part of the duke nukem franchise she was if you scroll down, or you can click on the media link at the top, you can see more screenshots that are a little bit closer. There you go. Is Duke Nukem the only game that, well, there's Daikatana, right? That was another game that kind of went that way, right? It was dragged on.

It was John Romero after he left id Software. It was a little, yeah, it was sort of typecast-y as well. That was a fucking good game, though. Sure. That game got fucked over. That was a little yeah it was sort of typecasty as well that was a fucking good game though sure that's that game got fucked over that was a fun game like the physics were cool it was like very much like quake one but with better graphics the weapons were cool yes yeah and and and i'm excuse me i'm not saying those games don't have a place they do right and that's the thing like like we what we don't want to be doing to, to creators, to creative people, to artists is making them kind of like, kind of like we didn't want to walk on eggshells with, with talking about these controversial issues today.

And I feel like we didn't, we don't want our artists walking on eggshells, worried about, worried about, well, what are people going to think? Are they going to be, are they going to be down our necks for being sexist or misogynist or, or fueling some, some negative, negative aspect of, of pop culture. Well, she's got big tits. So you're in trouble,

right? Look at her. Like people are going to definitely say that you're doing something wrong because she's hot. I hope not. So far, no one has, I mean, they haven't even seen it yet.

Wait till this fucking podcast goes live. She, she is hot and wait until you watch a trail. I don't know if you're able to, she's got a fight. Is that the boss? It's one of the bosses. Yeah. I don't know. Can you, can you pull up videos? Yeah, yeah, you should you should pull up the Zareth Guardians

Yeah, we'll make sure you don't shut down our YouTube videos cuz that's what happens as what they do is you're an intellectual Property of whatever fucking oh you're doing about us. Yeah. Oh, no, you don't say that No, there's got to be some company at the head of this, though. Absolutely. It's our company. Yeah, but do you have the pull? Can you really make this happen? Absolutely.

You'll never. All right, find a video, Jamie. Go to bombshell.com. If you scroll up, it's the top one up there. Right. A little bit down to that middle one. All right, here we go. Yep.

Go full screen. Is there a Pax trailer? Yeah, the Pax one. All right. Hit that bitch and go full screen. I also love our music. We have an incredible composer in our game. His name's Andrew Holschild.

I'm a little preoccupied right now. I know you're angry, but you can't obsess over the past. This isn't the time. Couldn't agree more. What was that? What's going on here? Begone! Whoa.

Why is it freezing? Okay, stop pause listen we can't watch like this. Pause it let it uh let it load up It is loaded. I saw the buffer. Yeah, something's wrong with your fucking shitty buffer on YouTube Try it from the beginning, Jamie. These are the Zerath Guardians. Do you think it's because you went full screen? No, probably not. Just leave it like this.

It's fine. Okay. What was that? Be gone! Defile! Huh. English. Isn't that convenient. So she'll through the game kind of be like breaking the fourth wall, talking to the audience. It's almost like she knows. This is like, you're looking at, it's third person.

It's top down, yeah. It's an isometric game. So this is, it's amazing looking at this now, help seeing how far along even from when this video is recorded how much? Better the game is but these are the Zerath Guardians one of the boss fights So you're playing with two sticks on your controller So you're running around with the left one and you're aiming with the right thumb stick And then you're just you're shooting you're using different abilities different, you know, she's got her mighty punch She's got eight different weapons that she can transform her arm into.

And this is a standard Xbox-type controller? Yep. PlayStation? Yep. Xbox One and PlayStation 4. It's going to be like the controllers that you come to expect. On PC, which is releasing later this month, is the keyboard and mouse configuration as well. And it'll always be top-down like this?

No. So sometimes we pull it down into third person. It just got jacked. It was made on the Unreal Engine, so we're able we pull it down into third person. It just got jacked. It was made by, it was made on the Unreal Engine, so we were able to build it in super high fidelity, and you can bring down the camera to be like a third person game almost. And the game was actually kind of designed to be a

first person or third person shooter. Yeah, first person is my favorite because it feels like you're actually there. You know, you're running through these 3D worlds top down as like you're watching. Well, if you love Quake, and if you love first person shooters, we actually have a Build Engine prequel to Bombshell that's going to come out after this game that takes place

in the first person. And it looks very retro style. So when is this game out? So this game comes out November 26 on PC. Yeah, this is where they merged together. This is stage three of the boss fight. So PC's coming out first? Yeah. Oh wow, they merge? Yeah, they literally merge together now

so now they're one giant boss. Oh, this seems like a hard game to play. Yeah, it's got, have you ever played Dark Souls? No. It's got times where it's kind of got Dark Souls difficulty. It's not an easy game, but it's also a very accessible game and easy to pick up and play.

Well, it looks awesome. This is the kill sequence and this to me kind of defines her personality. It defines her personality? Yeah. Sets the tone for who she is. is for folks watching this at home i mean listening to this which is the vast majority of the people this is not that fun so uh for them go to bombshell.com and you can watch these videos and check it out but very cool graphics looks like a fun game to play. And if you're really into games, this is probably something you'd check out. The thing about games that I like is that the amount of fucking entertainment you get from a really good video game.

How much does a good video game cost these days? Typically, they're $59, $60. Think about how many hours of entertainment you can get from one, especially if you turn it into a first-person shooter where you go online and right? Multiplayer right oh my god hundreds of hours. Yeah, we're putting in yeah It's incredible and this game is not gonna be that much this game would be like 39 bucks It's a single-player only game doesn't have a really yeah single-player only game But we want to make like co-op this game would be so fun for that

But like yeah like you talk about even the full price games like the Call of Duty will be 60 bucks, right? Well, that game with how many hours you get to put into it, you compare it to like a two hour movie that you see for 12 bucks or 14 bucks down at the AMC, right? Right. And you're getting so much bigger bang for your entertainment dollar buying a video game than you would in a movie. And so a lot of times, like when people are worried about our games getting too pricey, you know, with mobile games being so cheap and so affordable that they are, you know, with how much entertainment you're getting out of it, it's crazy. Yeah, it's amazing. I don't think these artists are getting paid enough, honestly. Well, the amount of money that you guys make, though, in video games is bigger than any movie now, right?

Oh, yeah. Yes. It surpassed, I think, 2012 or 13. That's crazy. That's when it surpassed Hollywood, yeah. When did it surpass porn? I don't know that it surpassed porn. Probably way earlier.

Porn doesn't make that much money anymore, does it? No more? They say the way porn makes big money these days, and this is kind of a sneaky thing, is hotels. Pay-per-view in hotels. That's where people buy porn. Interesting.

That's where people most of the time buy porn. Well, if you're a business guy, you can expense the trip. You can expense it on your trip. 1999 for a movie. Hmm. What did you watch? Hmm.

Yeah. If you play Bombshell and if you walk away with a different image jump into your head than just that blonde babe, scantily clad, tits and ass ass then we've done something we left an impression on you that that Tells you that that what defines a bombshell it defines a badass chick is is More of her context in her life and what she's doing and how she's combating that adversity then it is what she looks are you guys Preparing for feminist blowback feminism and gaming blowback no I mean I think about it a little bit more myself just because of the way I think and what I've been through but right That's not what the the team at interceptor is the studio in Denmark making that game. No one there is thinking that. They're just thinking, we have this idea for an incredible chick, an incredible villain too. Jadis Heskel, he's the villain. You didn't see him in that

trailer, but he's the lead antagonist. He's voiced by the voice of Duke Nukem, John St. John. So he's also part of the 3D Realms family still. They're just looking at making incredible characters with a fun story. No one's saying this story is serious. Like you saw, she rides a shield and punches him in the face to do the executing move. Well, she throws some grenades under the shield, blows them up and goes flying. Which is like that classic over-the-top, almost B-action movie type stuff, right? But that's the game that we're making. we don't want it to be too serious, right? We want it to still be on the fun side of serious now speaking of technology and technology of the future

Are you guys gonna start doing things like oculus rift you guys gonna start? Producing games for for something that's like completely immersive like that. We could man. We don't want to say to anything. We couldn't say yes now. We could do nothing to announce on your show, unfortunately, but it's, it's, the technology is amazing. Have you tried it? Have you worn those? I've only worn, well, I've worn two, two versions. I've worn the original version, which is very pixelated, which was amazing. Cause it gave me this like, whoa, this idea of like, I see where this is going. And then more recently my friend Louis from Unbox Therapy was in here and he showed me one that's a cell phone. You slide it in.

Samsung Gear. Galaxy, yeah, Samsung phone and you put it on. But it's still not the real deal. The real deal is the one that hooks up to a computer. But I saw that video where you get to look around it's completely three-dimensional the guy playing the piano have you seen that one it's yeah it's mind-blowing i've worn both the the valve has their vive and then you have um you have the oculus rift sony has the uh has theirs so what's the best one uh they're they're all they're all

they're all bleeding edge they're all like you know to me they're all like at the same level they all have their different things. One has more refresh rate. One is higher resolution. One has the hand tracking. So you can move your hands and stuff like they're all, they're all just, it's such a new technology.

They're all making great strides. And, and the, the, but no matter what, when you're playing on the, is the experience is so hard to describe. I'm going to do it injustice right now,

but it's like, you really are in a different world. I played a simulation where I was standing in this, this, this hall. It was like a, like a jail cell, like a jail hall. And there's this T-Rex, you hear it walking and it comes around the corner and it starts walking towards you and it's roaring. It's super high fidelity and you can look around, you can move, you can move around. And when he started walking at me, I had this like visceral natural instinct to duck down.

And then it detected that I had ducked it down because it can have the motion tracking like the Wii remotes do. And so he leaned down and like looked at me and roared in my face. And then he walked over me. And I realized that I've never had like that reaction from a normal game where I've like had to physically move in my space. But that made me have this like response. And I felt my heart rate going up that was so much more immersive. And you have to experience it. If you ever have a chance to go to like a trade show like Penny Arcade Expo, PAX South or PAX East, go to these trade shows and like wait in line.

It's worth it. Try it out because it's such an incredible experience. Well, I know John Carmack is involved with some Oculus Rift stuff because we were tweeting back and forth. And I've been in studios way back when before Quake 3 was released I got to play like an early version of it with Tim Willits and all those guys online On a LAN rather it was really fucking cool But they're doing some crazy oculus rift shit And I just can only imagine what that's going to be like the first oculus game

we make i'll bring you in i want you to see it i want you to tell us what you what you think well the first person shooter in oculus rift would probably if you can get some sort of an omnidirectional treadmill that feels realistic they have those two already i've seen them it's tough it's like a workout it's really hard to be in those which is great because you know one of the things about dance dance revolution um that game that's like really popular in arcades, one of the cool side effects is a lot of people lost weight. Yeah. Like a shitload of weight because they were gamers. Yeah.

But they got really into playing this one game. And this game requires you to jump around and bounce around. And they were burning off all these fucking crazy calories. And there's, I mean, I think there's a whole website dedicated to Dance Dance Revolution weight loss. It's showing all these people that have lost like fucking 60, 70, 80 pounds just playing this silly game. Because it's fun.

Yeah. And they're having fun doing it. Now think about a first-person shooter, like Unreal style, right? And you're running around these corridors. You've got an Oculus Rift headset on, omnidirectional treadmill, which means you can go left, right, back, forth, 45-degree angles up and down. Fuck, man.

And then a lot of these treadmills, they operate on you pushing them because they don't move like a treadmill where you have to keep up with it. It's your footprints are actually forcing it to move, so there's a little bit of resistance to it. The one that I saw, I didn't get to try it, though, is they had this thing, this almost sock thing you put on. Instead of a shoe, it's like a boot that's super soft material. And then rather than the thing being a track that you have to move

and have all that resistance because that was harder to move, it was this really slick surface. So you're still bound in, but you just glide your feet over it Yeah, it's cool And so you like polish it up like almost like like a bowling alley you would and then so You're almost like walking in place and gliding and because you still have that harness holding up. You don't slip and fall And that was kind of interesting too. That is kind of interesting. I would think one would be better for fitness Yeah, absolutely, but probably get some really good workouts in with an omnidirectional treadmill with resistance.

I mean, if you're like, I know there's one that they're working on that I had heard is fucking terrifying. It's based on Ridley Scott's Alien, the first Alien movie. The game? The game. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Have you seen it?

I've seen the clips, yeah. I've heard it's fucking horrifying. Oh, yeah. Where people are worried that people are literally going to Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Have you seen it? I've seen the clips, yeah. I've heard it's fucking horrifying. Oh, yeah. Where people are worried that people are literally going to get heart attacks. Yes. And you have to duck, and you actually see it walking around, and it's trying to find you, and you physically have to duck and move your body down so that it can't see you in the game. And when it finds you, it roars at you.

And you watch the YouTube videos, the Fine Brothers. It's the Fine Brothers YouTube channel where they have these, like, teens react videos. They'll put teenagers in chairs. They'll film them reacting to these things. It's so fucking funny to watch them clawing. They're clawing at their eyes trying to get the thing off because it was terrifying. Yeah. Well, isn't that, isn't this, like, sort of a glimpse of what's going to happen when they figure out how to make

some sort of not just goggles that you put on like like what they're doing with oculus rift but some sort of a neural interface where they bring you into this world would you ever want to leave that world that's the question right i mean is that where we're going maybe i mean when we're talking about artificial life maybe that's how artificial life's going to co-opt us they go look man we got this thing you know you don't need to live like this baby you know i mean how many people are out there just can't get people to touch them they're so sad so depressed why would you do that when you can be robin hood right you can literally okay this is the people we're watching a video of the people wearing the Oculus Rift and uh...

Oh fuck. Turn it up, Jamie. And they're walking... Oh my god, this is amazing. Oh, first of all, it moves like a really high level 3D shooter with high resolution, but it's total oculus rift. Oh my god, it's running! It's running at you. Does that mean it got her? Yeah. Oh, that's hilarious.

I almost don't want to speak because I'm so convinced that this is all happening. And then when it eats them... It happens in front of them, they can... They can see themselves getting eaten. They can look down and see their intestines getting ripped out. Oh, terrific. She's like, damn it, I just got jacked. Whoa. So when that little face is on the corner, does that mean it got you?

Yeah, it's a little bit buggy, too, that they were playing like a glitchy build and whatnot. We're seeing the future, right? I mean, if you go back to Pong and you look at what you've got now with Bombshell and you look at this and you go, what the fuck is that? I mean, Pong was what? 80, 70? Yeah, a long time ago.

I don't even remember. I don't know. I don't remember what year it was. What year do you think Pong was? Take a guess, Jamie. 60s. 60s? Yeah.

No, really? Yeah, it was a long time ago. 72. i guess 72 1972 okay so think of that think of 72 and now think of what's going to be like 40 years from now how quick and how quick we got here yeah that's the thing 40 years sounds like a long time 43 years ain't shit no well especially if you extrapolate you know you look at like what's going on today it's exponential it's not just 40 years from now it's like yeah fuck 40 years yeah 40 days let's let's go just back to 2005 right to just just 10 years 2005 the video games were they were they were completely different they were still uh in large part sprite driven.

I'm not going to get into the technical jargon. What does that mean? It's not truly 3D. The effects are fake 2D. Oh, I see what you're saying. It's just a bunch of 2D objects put together. But this virtual reality was something that always had been talked

about a long time ago. It was always the thing., like one day we're going to have virtual reality. I mean, it was a big plot line in movies in like the 1980s, but the technology wasn't there. But now the technology has finally caught up to it. And again, this is just the beginning. It's going to get crazier than this, right? I would hope so. I would assume so for my future What what what I want to know is how is it gonna change like what you know?

So how Netflix has changed the way like Hollywood and and how TV shows are made like I want to know What those I'm I can't wait to find out when an experience through it The effect that's gonna have on game. Well, how about movies? there was a, um, there was a movie that, uh, they did a trailer for that was in Oculus Rift and, uh, it was completely three dimensional. Like you could get inside the movie, you could move around and watch things happen from different places inside the movie. That's incredible. Yeah. And this is what I think what they did. I saw it online and, uh, they were just sort of demonstrating it.

It might just be like a proof of concept sort of a thing. Sure. But they were doing it in real time. Yeah. And this person was moving around, watching all this shit happen. I mean, we're going to go like if you go to a movie theater, right? Mm-hmm. You're sitting in a theater.

It's this big hole, big giant place. Everybody's sitting down eating popcorn and watching this flat screen in front of you where everything takes place. What if instead of that, you enter into a warehouse, and that warehouse is the film. You strap on these goggles, and they have an environment with wind and heat and all sorts of different three-dimensional environmental effects that can allow you like different terrain like maybe the the the terrain is uh somehow or another pliable or movable or liquid that can change what you know

what the effects of it are yeah and you could you could walk around in the shire i mean you could be in the fucking hobbit land climbing the hill to where Bilbo Baggins' house is, opening the door, looking at him, and he's telling you to come on inside. What? This isn't unrealistic, right? Oh, it's already here. There's the one proof of concept video, maybe Jamie can find it, where it's, with the Oculus Rift, they created a third-person shooter.

So it's a real-life third third person game where the guy has a, a wide angle camera mounted in a backpack on his back that is back here. So it looks down and it can see himself standing there and he's wearing these, these, these three glasses and it's doing the head tracking in real time. There's maybe like an 80 millisecond delay. So it almost imperceivable. So he's seeing his own, he's literally living an out-of-body experience through Oculus Rift, and he's walking around like he's a third-person avatar through the world. Wow.

Right. You know, some games allow you to go from third-person to first-person. Yeah. They'll allow you to switch back and forth. That's going to be, like, to look at your own hands in the game on the trigger. You know, you can see your hand pulling.

That's what the Vive was too. And Oculus, I think Oculus came out with a peripheral as well now where you hold these little things in your hands. And now the head tracking device can track or the cameras can track where your hands are in relation to your eyes. So you can hold a gun up and see the gun that you're holding. Yeah, it totally makes sense. Why wouldn't you?

You know, I mean, if your game, game I mean that would be so much more immersive if you had a game that required you to shoot at monsters with a shotgun and You had a fake shotgun, but is heavy like a metal shotgun. It had a real cocking mechanism And you could really see the shells eject you had to put new shells in maybe yeah Maybe you have shells in your pocket, and that's how reload. Like maybe you have like a bucket of shells. Fuck, it could be awesome. You've seen HoloLens, right? No. HoloLens is in a lot of ways even better. Have I seen it?

The Microsoft thing. Oh. Where they had aliens breaking through the walls of your home. So it's not goggles. Oh yes, I did see that. It's like a lens and so you still see your space, but it's like as soon as you put them on, you could look at that wall. And now suddenly an alien can break through the wall. And it actually makes it look like your wall is tearing apart and aliens climbing through it.

And then you're shooting at the alien in your own house at your own wall. So it's bringing video games into your world instead of putting, transplanting you into another world. HoloLens is bringing that game experience into wherever your space is. I forgot the name of it. Yeah, but I do remember that now. And then there was the other one. What was it, Magic Leap?

Yeah, that's the other one where they're showing 3D holograms, like a little elephant dancing in your hand. They've actually shown that. Magic Leap demonstrations have come out recently. I'll try to find it for you real quick. they've shown something yesterday like a like a real demonstration well they had one that was fascinating was this little girl sitting on her bed watching a four inch high ballerina spinning around in her bed like it was a real ballerina like it was fucking

tinkerbell oh my god yeah and again what does that do to a generation of mind blowing new inspiration and imagination that no other generation like ours had? Yeah. And where does it lead? Because obviously they're going to take it to the next place as they become more educated and they go to school and they learn how to create this kind of content and they learn how to evolve it and make it better and make the technology better. And fucking Christ man

We're in for some weird shit. It's a good time to be alive. It's amazing It's the best time to be alive ever and we have so much shit to complain about though Yeah, we've always had shit to complain about oh, this is real It says that this was shot through the Magic Leap right okay play it like two weeks ago. Whoa? Whoa October 14th, 2015. No special effects. Or compositing were used. And it's not all glitchity.

It's not like having trouble. It's so smooth with every motion of the... So that's underneath the table. We're looking at this robot thing. This is super cool. Oh, whoa. So that's underneath the table. We're looking at this robot thing. This is super cool. Oh, whoa. So this girl's sitting at a desk, and she's... Excellent posture, by the way.

As she's sitting there, there is a fucking solar system floating over her desk. But it looks real. Well, it looks realistic, at least. There's trails. That's what they're trying to show is the focus. It reacts to the depth of field of the real world. Yeah. Whoa.

Wow. So as you get close to it, if you look at it, like you can focus on Earth. Like it's our solar system. There's our sun. And it's all the planets are the right size and the proper order. And just imagine the applications for this. are the right size and the proper order and just imagine the the applications for this imagine when a science teacher can put this in a classroom and let you like walk around a universe or a galaxy and Interact with the objects in like your actual space what I'm confused is what's the projection method?

How are they doing that it's a lens that they're wearing correct me if wrong Jamie? I don't know this one It's I don't think they are not letting anyone know I as of right now, because it's super high concept and they're not sharing. Because that girl's playing it all cool. She wasn't even looking at the solar system right next to her. It's kind of horseshit. If that was like HoloLens' technology, they had the camera looking at through the filter that would be projecting that into the world. So you still have to wear a device, I would assume.

I would assume. Okay. I would assume. Okay. I would assume, yeah. Because there was one image that they had where it was a floating whale. They were on the beach, and they were looking up, and above the beach,

like where the sand is, there was a whale that was floating in the sky. I could only imagine that that would be the case if you were wearing some goggles or something like that. How are you going to project something in the air and have it look completely three-dimensional and solid? Yeah. Look at this. This is the one.

Oh, yeah. I did see this clip. Oh, my God. But here's the thing. So weren't all of them in the YouTube clip I saw, all the people in the room were reacting too. Exactly. weren't all of them in the youtube clip i saw all the people in the room were reacting to exactly but here you're seeing a bunch of kids in a gymnasium that are watching this whale fly through the air but the kids don't have anything on their eyes that we can see right this see this is kind

of bullshit like they'll tell us eventually yeah but obviously this is some stuff stuff they're working on right now yeah when i saw the clip i assumed that they were just reacting to the they were just acting because they had said oh now there's a whale jumping out and just react so that it makes the viral video on you that's what i thought happened but might be that's weird you know it's weird to be alive now and see all this stuff happening and just just the speculation of what it's going to be like in a decade well you're a little bit older than me um what i mean i'm 48 you're 48 so you got to experience how old are you 28 so you got a lot older than you yeah you got you got to experience what time was like as an adult before all this stuff so even what was your perspective yeah well

i remember no internet right now in, I got my first computer. It was an old Mac, back when Macs only had tan, those boxes. I had one of those. And I remember thinking, how crazy is this internet thing? You've got mail. You go on AOL and look around. It's been completely fascinating to watch that evolve and watch it change. And a lot of it happened while I was, um, while I was on news radio. Um, the guys that I worked with, a lot of the writers were like heavily into video games and those guys got me addicted to

Quake. It was Quake 2 at the time because they had developed a local area network. They had installed a LAN in their office and they had spent a shitload of time. They're supposed to be writing. They would play games till like two o'clock in the morning and then start writing. But it was so crazy. I had never seen anything like it. And that's how I became like massively addicted, but also addicted to the internet. And that's when I started going online and finding out about websites and reading things and realizing you get your news online. I was like, this is amazing. You could read the news and then like you get the news in real time. Then I was like, well, you don't have to wait till the morning for the paper to come out. You just wait for the website to refresh.

And then it got smaller and kept getting smaller. And you have in your pocket at any moment. You can get notified when news happens. That's got to be, see, I think you and even me in a lot of ways, because I remember a time before that, too. I was younger, but I remember when the Internet was really getting into our house. So I feel like we were like in a great generation for perspective. And not to go back to all that stuff again, but it's like the next generation, even, even, even like my, my younger sister's generation, like they didn't

have all that perspective necessarily. And now I have little toddlers and nephews who are growing up with, with, you know, iPads and they're, they're, they're doing stuff sitting on the couch after school on their iPad. And so I'm just worried like and What do you think do you think you were you and I are in like the good the best? Generation for perspective or do you think that it's better to be a generate a generation now or a generation before you and I um Well, I think if you want to compare the two there's no way they're going to understand what it was like to not have the internet They're not gonna understand it right. It's gonna be a concept. It's like us understanding what it was like to not have the internet. They're not going to understand it. It's going to be a concept.

It's like us understanding what it was like before written language. We're never going to get it. We can pretend all we like. We're never going to really know what that's like. But I think the leap between no written language and written language took so much longer to have an impact than what we're experiencing in just a couple of decades and a couple of decades The world has changed Radically and it's happened right in front of our eyes. Yeah, and I think that human beings have a really difficult time Recognizing change while it's taking place right in front of them, right?

I think it just seems normal to us, but I think when when history looks back at this era They're gonna say this is the craziest moment in time. This was when it all began. This was the birth of the machine. This was when it came alive when information became there was all sorts of weird shit that happened along the way and viral videos and fucking that. What is that fucking guy from Korea? Gangnam Style. There's all sorts of strange things have happened. You know, strange things. Hamster damps. There's been a lot of weird stuff that's happened because of the Internet.

But ultimately, it's amazing. It's more good than bad. Oh yeah. Way more good. I think people are more informed, more educated. And I think they're kinder. I really do. I think despite all these cuts that get crazy over stuff, I think there's more good stuff coming from people online. It's also the communities that you foster. Like the, the people that I'm in contact with that connect to me through this podcast or through my other stuff, they're super positive. It's like so much more kind. I mean, you can find pockets of douchebags. Sure.

They form these little communities and they just shit in each other's mouths all day. You're going to find that with sports. You're going to find that with video games. You're going to have like-minded communities, with any, you're going to have like-minded communities and some of them are going to be toxic. But for the most part, what I encounter and the people that I interact with online, incredibly positive. Even criticisms, like the criticisms that I've experienced online, for the most part, the vast majority of them are polite. Vast majority. I think that's rare. I think also

people are learning how to use social media and the internet and this newfound ability. They're learning how to do it. And some people do it wrong. I mean, there's some people that have essentially attack blogs. You go to their blog, it's just them shitting on one person or shitting on another person. And why are they doing that? Well, they're doing that because they can, you know, this is the first time they've ever had a voice in their whole life and they're going to use it to displace, you know, some of the anger and hate that they have in their own life and just throw it out there in the world. And this, these are all like hiccups and growing pains. And I think it's amazing. I really, really do. That's what what that's why I do what I do. That's why I like to I like to still be

Talking to as many people as I can and changing and influencing in a positive way Hopefully as many lives as I can because just like the universe, you know, I'm a part of it I'm in the middle of it and I want to I want to be a part of it and I want you to be a part of it That's why I love comedians too and I respect comedians because they talk they talk about these kinds of social issues with such, you know, just on a just absolutely brazenness and and they don't care Most people don't care what other people think about it and they make they make you laugh at the same time that they make you Really think and be thoughtful about it. So I really respect what you do and And and you know kind of paving the way for that because, you were doing that in an era before there was social media.

So, well, it was easier before there was social media. You were, you didn't get attacked for it. It was limited to one room at a time, right? You got attacked in that room,

you know, but I think people had less of a, they had less of this, uh, entitlement to outrage that people have now. Right. And I think that there has been some attacks on comedians that have gone of this entitlement to outrage that people have now. And I think that there has been some attacks on comedians that have gone sort of the way that you see these attacks on people for whatever reason in social media, whether it's the Lion Killer guy or Justine Sacco or you.

There's going to be these targets that exist, and they have occasionally gone after comedians and for the most part comedians have vehemently and aggressively like supported and and defended themselves and one another that yeah and defended one another it's a super important thing like daniel tosh had an incident that you know there was a few comedians that actually turned on him and they were ostracized by the community. You know, the people will never respect them or forget that they for social media brownie points. They tried to pretend that what he did was some outrageous thing. Okay. By cracking jokes. So it happens everywhere because that was the one thing that I wish would have if I could have changed anything about what happened with me, it would have been that I would have loved for more of my peers to come out and been like this is wrong i would have loved for more people to have had you know the the gonads to come out and say fuck that he didn't do anything wrong publicly they all came to me privately man empathizing right but as you would expect friends to do but i would have loved for for people to have been like you know what that's it's not okay and i because i see that all the time in the comic community where that's how you fight that.

That's how you get back against that. And that's how you make sure that that shit doesn't, you know, resurge and take over. But we have to because without that, the art form is shit. I mean, it really doesn't even exist. The art form of stand-up comedy depends upon freedom because you're going to say things that are offensive,

you know, that you don't even mean because the offensive things will be funny, you know. And you've got to know when you mean them or when you don't mean them. Like, I went through this whole bit in my last special where I was explaining, like, this is a Tracy Morgan bit that he got in trouble for because he said that if his son was gay, he would stab him. And then I'm like, well, he also said he would eat a mile of shit to get to Beyonce's ass. Do you understand? He said both of those things in the same set. Like, like, you got to like, look at what he's doing.

He's saying things that are outrageous that are not real. He's not in court giving an affidavit. He's making a joke because he knows that some parents are shitheads when their sons come out to them. Right. And that's the joke that he was making. And I understand that. I don't think that's what he was doing no i think he was pretending that he would

stab his son if he was gay because it's outrageous i don't think he was saying or it's as simple as that but yeah i don't think it was like a social stand like we was taking a stand on social issues and mocking those parents that would do that no i think he's pretending that he would do that. But the last- To be funny, but it's pretend. But the last thing that he was doing is suggesting that's okay. Yes, exactly. That's the important thing.

You know, I mean, people have to look at what standup comedy is the same way they look at movies. If you watch Goodfellas, okay, nobody really got shot when they made that movie. It was fake. It was entertainment. And if you listen to rap music, same thing, okay? They're not really shooting cops. So what people think is they argue that by fetishizing that, by pretending that, that we're somehow changing society. Adjusting culture. And I completely reject that theory right in video

games we get that a lot with violence in video games there was a lot a lot of lawsuits actually went to the supreme court in california over california versus the the ema and um thankfully video games won it was like a seven to two vote but the the what they were arguing is that violent video games can lead to these mass shootings can can lead to violence in your life, lead to aggression, despite not a single study supporting any of that evidence. And I come to realize that video games as an industry, we're just younger. As an art form, we're younger.

We're a very immature industry, just like movies, just like music. Eminem and Marilyn Manson went through the same scrutiny back when they were having violent and vulgar rap lyrics, right? For them, Ozzy Osbourne, you know, people were blaming them for kids killing people. And every time we come to realize, you know, it's probably not real. It's probably not the case. And no matter what someone writes in a manifesto or what someone, you know, might, some study person might think, you know, at it's some university, um, there's nothing that suggests that. And if anything, there's data that suggests that, you know, these things as mediums are releases, they lower aggression, they, they, um, they make people happier and

better people overall. Yeah. The release, you know, that there's this idea that watching something violent and watching something sexual and watching these things that are horrific they release this Anxiety and at least release the desire to actually do those things. Yeah, and that you can somehow or another By you know by viewing those alleviate those issues in your own mind I used to work on Call of Duty and so we of course that game like that has a close interaction with the with the armed services, with, with our, our, our militaries. And, uh, and, and every time that I met with them, they would tell me stories about things like, you know, so vets would talk about how they deal with like PTSD.

They deal with adjusting to society by playing call of duty or, or people on deployment in, in like FOBs, like, you know, boots in the sand would talk about going to, you know, going in and playing these things. Cause they would have little, uh, almost like internet cafes. They'd have little tents set up where they would go in and play these, uh, play the games on, on workstations. And, um, and we actually would send sometimes X-Boxes out to them and, and, um, and, you know, help them, um, get through that stuff. Uh, and, and again, to them, it was like, that was their way of, of keeping us, way of keeping a sense of sanity and normalcy to their otherwise hell

the hell they had to go through those stories just they always ring home to me and I realize that no matter how much but again it's just perspective it's like it still tears me down to think that we're still debating these things we're still debating whether violent video games are this and that

here's why the debate is bullshit. Would it affect you? If you went and saw a violent video game or a violent movie, would you go out and commit violence because of it? No, you're a grown adult. So what are we doing with video games? Are we raising children with them? No, you're raising your fucking kid, okay? And if

your kid grows up to be a suicide bomber or a mass murderer or a rapist, you can't blame movies, man. It's not the movie's fault. There were way more influential factors in that kid's life that led him to where he was than the movie he watched. Exactly. And usually whatever angst that they have is, you know, they're seeking some sort of relief through those video games. Right.

And if they have fucked up thoughts inside their head, it's not Quentin Tarantino didn't put him in there. Ozzy Osbourne didn't put him in there. You know, Call of Duty didn't put him in there. It just didn't. It's not the case. They can live vicariously through those horrible things and not want to commit crimes.

And, you know, the argument can be made for that sexually too. You know, there's a lot of people that believe that porn, even crazy porn, alleviates people's desires and need to do fucked up things sexually. Or, yeah, or to do the thing that they watched in the porn. Exactly. Yeah. And that's a good thing. That's not making, that's not desensitizing them.

That's not, again, that all comes from a place, I think, just lack of understanding. And almost, it comes from a place of closed-mindedness here. It's that confirmation bias. You have a theory. And so you will look at the world through the stained glass lenses or games or films or anything for their behavior and their actions. But you're going to have to look at all the factors in their life. And what percentage of the pie is the video game? Is it even a sliver?

I mean, is it even a percent or 2%? What about the 98% of them getting sexually abused or beaten up or bullied or the fact their mom drank like a fish when they were in the womb? Who the fuck knows what makes a broken person? The idea that a person can be perfectly normal and then sit down and play Call of Duty and want to go fucking shoot up a mall, that's crazy talk. And you as an adult producing a product that is supposed to be, at the very least, your parents are supposed to approve your use of it. Right. But most of it is like kids that are in their teens or older, they've formed their own personalities already.

You're not getting your personality from playing bombshell. And even still, we still have rating systems, just like the movies have the MPAA. We still have the ESRB. We're still properly rating them and making sure that parents have to sign off if they're going to buy the thing with the kid that to be there in the store, you have to have a guard. You know, we still have all those same systems just in case, right? Because it's still good to be better safe than sorry, I agree, but not to the degree

that you're removing an entire genre of game or genre of entertainment because of it. That's being too safe. And people should be allowed to vote with their pocketbook. You should be able to vote with your wallet. Vote. If you think that something's offensive and you think Grand Theft Auto, it legitimizes robbery and violence, and I don't want to be a part of that. So this is what you do. You just don't buy it.

It's real simple. And let the open market decide. And the idea that we're going to fucking nanny state the whole world, it's nonsense. It's nonsense. And I think video games have been the latest victim or the latest in our culture of something that Tipper Gore tried to do with rap music. And, I mean, it's been done forever. It's been done forever. They've always tried to find a scapegoat for why people are fucked up.

But people are fucked up because people are fucked up. Deal with it. Deal with it. Face it. We don't understand it, but that's okay. We have more work to do to figure it out. Don't just go to the easy thing, the easy explanation that makes you feel more comfortable at night. Yeah, we're not talking about John Carpenter.

What is that movie he did where the people read the book in the mouth of madness? They read the book and they went fucking crazy from reading the book. No, there's a giant number of people who play Call of Duty and never shoot anybody. Okay, you got to take them into account. You can't just say, well, this guy played Call of Duty

and then he went out and shot. What else did he do? Did that guy pee? Well, when he pees, it made him go out and shoot people. No more peeing. Yeah, no more peeing. Did he drink milk? Well, fucking milk kills. Milk's out there killing babies. That's nonsense. It's like everything causes cancer. Everything causes

cancer these days. Well, everything causes death because we all die. That's right. So everything you do, you get online, that's causing death. I think we worked on a lot of shit today, Josh. I do too, Jeff. I feel good about this podcast. Thanks for letting me talk to you about it. My pleasure, brother. My pleasure. And good luck with your game. Good luck with Bombshell.

Thank you. And everything else you do, man. I really appreciate it. It was a lot of fun. Cheers, brother. JD underscore... 2020. What does that stand for? It's funny. There's a story. I'll come on next time and tell you about it. Okay. Next time. JD underscore 2020

on Twitter Josh Olin ladies and gentlemen alright see you fuckers next week