The Joe Rogan Experience - #720 - Tait Fletcher & Andy Stumpf

Episode Date: November 10, 2015

Tait Fletcher is an actor, stuntman, entrepreneur, and jiu jitsu black belt. Andy Stumpf is a retired Navy SEAL and is currently a wingsuit world record holder.

Gentlemen, Tate Fletcher and Andy Stump! Otherwise known as Andy Stump 77. Was 76, 75, 74, are they all taken, or was that your birth date? I'm the only person on Twitter who put the year of my birth after their name. Wow. It's pretty fancy. Some guys just go with 69. That's standard.

I would bet if you search for that, it's probably taken. The first time I got an AOL account, it was Spikeman69. And it was a guy I was living with at the time. He's like, well, I've got this extra account. And I'm like, Spike, what is this all about? And I guess he liked chat rooms and stuff. So that was it for a while until I was like, I had to send a legitimate email. And I'm like, this can't be what I'm doing.

You're trying to do business. I smartly went to rather choke you out which looked even when i got into film stuff it looked super weird because you have to send that to makeup like right wardrobe and everybody and then it was and it was early in grappling so people didn't know really about fighting so you're a sex freak that just likes to choke yeah you know what i mean i was like okay and then i got it it's funny that you would say that it would be a sex freak, not a violent person. That just shows you the circles you're traveling in. That's how sweet a person I am.

I was not thinking sexual at all. I'm looking over at Tate. He's like 300 pounds of ripped steel. I'm like, sex freak. Very few people associate choking with sex, Tate. Listen, if you send it to a wardrobe lady, it's way better to have her think of you in this way than that way, though. I prefer that, so I just gave that kind of energy to it. Put that vibe out.

You put that vibe out anyway. Thanks. I'm a sex freak? Yeah, why not? Let's get crazy. What's wrong with being a sex freak? It's like being a food freak. How come being a food freak's okay, but being a sex freak is a problem?

It's true. Seriously. I mean, because the Puritans, they can justify food more, and then people get mad if you're sexually free. Nobody's happy about that. People get all weird about that, man. You know, I've had Dr. Chris Ryan on a bunch of times. He's that guy that wrote Sex at Dawn.

I like him so much. That book. Love that guy. Man, he's fantastic. Yeah, he's amazing. His book's fantastic. He's just a cool dude, too. But we always wind up talking about this weird thing that people have with people that enjoy pleasure like certain pleasure You're allowed to enjoy like you're allowed to go get a massage and go. Oh the best massage

Oh this fucking lady. She knew how to dig in there And but you know if you say that about getting your dick sucked right you're some sort of a piece of shit Something wrong with you, Andy. Why do you enjoy this? You had him on out too long ago. You're talking about it all the time. Yeah. I've had him on twice in the last couple of months.

He's another guy that confirms everything that I've heard about Spain. Like that that's the joint. If you were going to move, if you could only live in one place, that that place is fantastic. Yeah. He loves it there, man. And he's been everywhere. I mean, when I met him, he was living in Vancouver and he's in Portland now and then he moved to LA

for a bit, but he's been everywhere. He just says Barcelona's the spot. That's dope. But he knows how to live, man. That dude knows how to chill. Well, and he's free. He's free of the constraints of social norms affecting him and him caring too much about what anybody thinks.

He's probably outlived his parents and whomever that he might've been like, E, I'm a little embarrassed if they know I had a threesome or whatever. You know what I mean? Right, right, right. I mean, people live under bondage of other people's opinions.

He can just go on blast because he's- Exactly. His jar of fucks is just empty. Yeah, well, he's done some gay stuff. He doesn't care. He's like, yeah, whatever. I took the guy's dick or whatever. Did he do some gay stuff? I'm not saying he did. I'm just saying. What the fuck, bro? I didn't know he did some gay stuff. He doesn't care. He's like, yeah, whatever. I took the guy's dick or whatever. Did he do some gay stuff?

I'm not saying he did. I'm just saying. What the fuck, bro? I didn't know he did some gay stuff. He's on that mic. Mike and Andy's on it. Just do it. It doesn't even smell.

It doesn't even smell. No, it's fine. I really should clean these. It's one thing that I do not like about these sponges. I keep thinking. I'm using the same sponge all the time. I'm spitting into this thing. Right.

But there's a certain amount of that comes out of your mouth no matter what you do. For sure. Like how much, Joey Diaz has probably put a pint or two into that particular. It soaked up and had to dry out.

Yeah. But we don't do anything. I think there's like a way to deal with this and we're not doing it. We're not doing a damn thing about it. At least Febreze it or something. Well, I think Jamie was telling me

that he replaces them all the time. He's got a box where we just replace. They don't even come off. They don't even come off these fucking things. On these shores, this is like a permanent fixture. I made it up. I made it up. They probably have a replacement, right?

There's also cleaner I think we can get for it. Stop it. You can't clean this. You can't clean this enough. You know what they use to clean stuff? They use sponges. Do you know what you use to clean a sponge? The garbage. That's it take these to clean stuff. They use sponges. Do you know you used to clean sponge the garbage? Yeah, I mean it is a sponge right and that's what these things are yeah, these are sponges

That's the endgame for cleaning. Yeah, I think I would have got like Chris Ryan another part of it is that he's Like he celebrated for his open-mindedness. Yep, so it's like it's not just something that just something that he doesn't have to hide anymore. It's something that he embraces because other people go, thank you, finally. Finally the voice of reason. Everybody agrees with it to that extent, to a certain extent. It's kind of like being a fighter, I think, in a way, is where people are looking at it and they're like,

I would have liked to have taken that chance. Whenever you're doing anything that people are reticent to jump into, they go, man, I would have liked to join the SE join the seals i would have liked to have done whatever the thing is in the window closed or whatever happened they didn't have the courage to pull the trigger on it but then they see a guy like that and they're like he's expressing and manifesting in a way that i would like to be able to do but i just can't do it i'm caught up in all this other stuff yeah people get stuck they get stuck in who they are they are and they have these ideas of what they would like to be and they just never

get after it. They just never hit the gas. They just never get out of their lane. They never... It's a big problem with people. There's something huge about freedom, man. People don't... There's a great argument to be made that people don't want to be free. We talk a lot about freedom, but motherfuckers like

to have handcuffs on they like to have a wife that's basically like a game warden you know it tells them what they can bag and when they can come home and you know what's up it's night time so put the guns away i mean most people most people to be free would rather be polyamorous or something like that for sure like that's how that's how we live comfortably but they don't want their wife to do it but they don't want anybody to be hurt no one else yeah they don't want anybody getting feelings hurt there's a lot that's the downside people's feelings that's it that's what we walk around really you know if you're conscious there's guys that don't give a fuck but yeah and then there's also people that

hold you captive with their feelings because they're so fucking ultra sensitive you gotta say bye-bye such Such a train. It's hilarious, a guy like you, before this podcast, you're talking about Tate fighting, like, I would never do that. I would never do that. But how could you say that when you were a SEAL? I mean, you were involved in gunfights, you were in SEAL Team 6. Can I tell you the starkest thing that he said?

What? He's talking with his buddy, John Wellborn, and then with this guy that's a, I don't know if he's a SWAT team leader, but he's on the Santa Monica SWAT team, right? And he's like—and Scott goes, yeah, you know—and he's the SWAT team guy. He's like, you know, I was shooting my MP5 or something like that, and he looks over disgusted. Yeah, Vietnam called. They want their gun back. What are you doing?

Come on. What is that for? And he's like, well, no, target shooting. He says, oh disgusted. Yeah. Vietnam called. They want their gun back. What are you doing? Come on. What is that for? And he's like, well, no, like target shooting. He says, oh, okay, fine. He says, because I was walking and I hit a guy five times in the chest with that. And he didn't even really fall down. He went into the other room and everything. He's like that.

And that's unacceptable as a weapon. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, the only way he sees weapons as worthwhile is their stopping power of a human. So I'm like, the only way he sees weapons as worthwhile is their stopping power of a human. And then he's like, you really got to hit a guy just under the eyes and just above the teeth. And when you said above the teeth, I was like, that's some next level shit. But it's a good reference point, right? It sure is. I'll never forget it. Teeth up a little bit.

Yeah. MP5. I didn't say I shot anybody with an MP5 because, like I said, I trained on them in the 90s and then realized that the turn of the century came, so we can put the muskets and the MP5s away, and pick up some other fireballs. I would have never known. Catapults still have stopping power.

That's true. They do. You can't dial it in super good. Bring them back. I mean, can you imagine if somebody shot a catapult at me, I'd be like, I'm out. You're going to live another day. Like a flamethrower, if you have a flamethrower, you win. I'm like, I'm not going to go into that. Especially

when you were in the 90s and all the hairspray and everything. You couldn't afford that. All my money went into beauty products, which most of it still does, obviously. One of the darkest things that I ever heard about warfare was in the Dan Carlin Hardcore History series about the Mongols where they talked about Mongols lighting bodies on fire and launching them with catapults

onto the rooftops of these buildings because they had thatched roofs and human bodies they get they're fatty you know and they light on fire good and they stay lit and they take a bit but says a guy yeah this is great yeah so I heard it on a podcast and then i had a guy sitting next to me that also had experience allegedly allegedly you need an accelerant but i mean think about think about the the impact that that would have being on the receiving end you're like you fucking win like yeah you know if you want to all of a sudden your dad comes through the roof i mean i'm not going to say there's an argument to be made for doing that but what if you could do that once and not have to fight two more battles because the people you want to fight against

see that and they're like no check you win that's the ethical argument for being ruthless right the ethical argument is if you could be ruthless in a short amount of time and just absolutely stop all the bullshit that you will actually save lives. Yep. You'll mitigate the loss. Yeah. They look at the atomic bomb, right?

I mean, that was the theory behind that. We're just going to turn so many people into glass that your country is going to want to back away before it happens again. Didn't they kill as many people with those atomic bombs as they did in like years of like traditional warfare? And then I read something too that japan had already been orchestrating a piece and a settle of that and they're like we're already online with these we got to try them out yeah like little kids giddy for their christmas present they wanted to see

what would happen knowing what i know about the u.s military i would say there's likely some shreds of truth i was talking to a friend of mine and he was saying also he says they want an elongated war they don't want he's like he was a like a force recon guy and he said we'd go in and he says for example there's a house of bad guys we know the bad guys are there but we get stand down just relax and then i said why and he said this is modern day yeah he said because they wanted to go out longer and so then they'd send the regular marines around until they'd get blown up on the road and then they'd blow up another one. And they'd stretch it out for as long as they could to get public opinion of deaths and this and that before they would send guys in.

And he said that dates back, though, to Vietnam. He said there's a hill that's a famous hill, I forget the name of it, that they retook 15 times. Oh, yeah, there's actually, I think, a couple of those. They made a movie out of one. Pissed, I can't think of the name. It was like 607 or something like that. Hamburger Hill might have actually been in the movie. yeah i don't know man that that once you get war going man that's big money and i mean now that we have a boogeyman of terrorists you can say that

about anything really yeah when you have the word terrorists that's that's an open-ended thing because it's not like there's a country with a leader and you take over the leader and that's it you're done and then i have to take trust your intelligence as a citizen of the government. It takes the expiration date off because then it's like, well, I don't know. How long are we going to be there? What if they move? Because then, you know what I mean, it becomes a chess game, but you're not on a board anymore,

where the board just exponentially increased. How frustrating is that as a soldier? I mean, that's got to be this. It seems to me that, like, as a soldier, you would want an obvious opponent where once it's defeated, you're done. You have an objective. The objective is reached. Everybody can go home.

Remember that World War II photo of the soldier that's kissing the girl with a sailor? He's kissing the girl in the middle of the street, and everybody's like, yes, it's over. Our generation has been denied that. We were denied that in Desert Storm. It sort of happened because it happened. It was like so quick. It was just boom, boom, boom, boom. And it gave everybody this idea like, well, the way we do war today is it's not that big a deal.

We lose a couple of people, but basically we just go in there and we fuck everything up real quick and everybody quits. No, not anymore. Now after that time, it became this very murky thing. It's not going to war with Iraq or going to war with any country. It's going to war with ISIS, and they're all over the place. They're these boogeymen. Then before that, Al-Qaeda, and then before that, Syria. And the whole thing becomes like a subterfuge and going,

well, now we need to be intrinsically laden into these different governments because they could be there a little bit in France and they're a little bit in Saudi Arabia. And then the military industrial complex just grows and grows and grows. I think I had the benefit, though, to answer your question, because I can't even describe the amount of respect that I have for conventional forces and the shit that is forced upon them given their job description. We could spend hours talking about it. You mean just like being in an impossible situation and given horrible decisions to make

not necessarily horrible decisions but they're they're trained to the best of the ability that they can but there's no time or money or equipment to continue sharpening the blade right so they're large mechanized units or they got to walk around and they're told to go own battle space. And some of the battle space is passive and some of it's aggressive. And it's just it's a job where the local people don't want you to be there. You probably don't want to be there. It's super kinetic and they have to fucking live there. And they – to them, I don't know how you define victory to those forces.

For us, I think we had a little bit of a benefit and it was less frustrating because it was targeted. I mean, we would have a list, a target list where, you know, like in Iraq in 2005, that we were on full like vampire schedule. I'd sleep all day long, get up right before the sun went down, go hit a workout, hit dinner, and I'd just go sit down in the office and, you know, the cell phone network would crack on and it's just who you want to go for just rack and stack them so how does that work like you would you say the cell phone network would go on yeah you know uh a lot of the stuff a lot of the targeting we do would be electronic based you know it's no like metadata like knowing where the phones are knowing where they had something the ability to triangulate their location it's the same way that your iphone works you know what i mean you can if you turn on people who think that if you're carrying around an electronic device and there's not a way to

track it like this is so open source too i mean it's yeah believe me the conspiracy theorists could go nuts with this but well a buddy of mine his wife tracked him with a find my phone totally i mean what's what and what's the right? It's going off the same thing. The phone is communicating with other satellite stuff. So some phones would become active. Other phones wouldn't. You know, you could look at the lines of warfare that we were trying to go down and the things that we were trying to affect. And we're like, cool, that guy's number one on the list.

Let's roll. And for us, when we roll. Now, when you decide who's number one on the list, is that you guys as a group come together? Is there a guy telling you who to... No, that's more like kind of looking at the battlefield. And I mean, the best analogy I could be would like a tree, right? So the root of the tree... So we'll go even bigger, like Bin Laden, right?

Like he's right at the base. We're trying to get there. But all we can really see is the little branches and all the outlining stuff. So we got to work our way back. So it'd be where they are in relationship to the branches and the leaves. Like how close can we get? Because it usually starts with a low-level guy who you can roll up and leads to another guy.

Give you something else. It's a compounding thing. I mean, really, that is how most of it works. I'm asking, though, as a Team 6 guy, is it coming from on high, or are you guys deciding, no, this is the guy that is closest to our objectives as a country? Both. It could be both. A lot of the times, like the target deck, it's, you still even overseas, you work for like a battle

space commander and they have objectives that they're trying to get achieved in that battle space. So you have to justify what you're going to do against what they're trying to do. Right. Now, but if there are certain high level individuals, like if that individual pops up, you're going to stop everything you're doing and you're going to go after them.

Like Zahariri was one of them in Iraq. But, you know, when we would roll out, like... Sounds like a magician. It does. Great Zahariri. We'd roll out, and I had a football sleeve on, like Tom Brady did, with a guy's picture with stats. You know, the picture was fucking completely inaccurate

99% of the time. Sometimes we didn't have a picture, so it would be an empty silhouette dark haired guy no not even that it would be a silhouette so i would draw things on him like a mustache or maybe this guy has a goatee i would draw my own little target picture but so it would have the building it would have known associates so like i i had a much more defined end state so we would go right and maybe he would be there and maybe he wouldn't. So it was – you know what I mean? Like at the end of the night, you would be able to gauge success or failure to a small degree as opposed to just occupying a battle space.

Is there ever a time when you got a guy and it wasn't that guy? No, that never happens. Sorry about it. Yeah. Sarcasm. You look just like the picture that I drew on my arm. You look just like the time to get the donuts guy. Or they'd be like, hey, his name is Abu Smith, which means son of Smith.

And everybody's fucking name in the city is Abu Smith. So you roll the dude up and you get back. You're like, these are not the droids that you're looking for. It happens all the time. But this guy had poor manners. That's a big argument for Guantanamo Bay, right? That Guantanamo Bay, there's a lot of people over there that were just guilt by association or they went to school in the wrong place or they attended the wrong meetings and they

just got shackled up and put in some orange jumpsuits and stuffed into some holes. So what do you do with them now? It's a good question, especially once you've had them there for 14 years because they just released a guy. Because we can go down the rabbit hole on this one. This is a tough portion of the question that I don't think people think about. Like, what do you do with a guy who was guilty by association or not, but got caught in the net, got sent to a place like Guantanamo or other detention facilities around the world,

became radicalized, and you know if you let him out, if he was in this room room he would try to kill all three of us right now you know that but he hasn't actually done anything yet because he was put in there by acts not by accident by association do you let the guy out well it's a it's a well do you i mean it's a very tricky situation depending on what your objectives are are you is your objective justice or is your objective making sure that you keep people safe justice yours yeah yours but you're not in the military let him go tate and also america's you say let him go though if he is innocent for sure we turn everybody i'm saying he was innocent when he got there right for

sure we've turned everybody that isn't if i'm in guantanamo bay for 14 years i'm for sure gonna have some feelings you're gonna be totally Bay for 14 years, I'm for sure going to have some feelings. You're going to be totally on the other side. But it's not for sure until I do that. Yeah, I mean, ethically, you have to turn them loose. I can't be the thought police. You have to, at the very least, wait for something bad to happen. I'm watching them.

I might have a sniper attributed to that guy. Oh, stop it. For what? The fucking 10 yards he walks to a vehicle and then disappears into the network of bogeymen? You know what I mean? Come on. Whatever the thing is. But the thing is, is I can't based on like, I think that he's going to do this. Like, we don't

live that way. So then say he does. So let's say it, not a 9-11 scenario, but say he becomes the guy that goes to France and starts hacking dudes with a machete and you knowingly let him go because you believe in justice. Who's responsible for that happening? The guy that hacked him up with the machete. But you're the one who let him go. But isn't it also the people that turned him into that?

The really responsible parties. If we want to run it up the top of the chain, then it's Dick Cheney. Then it's guys that put him there. It's Obama that didn't let him out. It's all these guys. That's a real problem. That's been a problem since the beginning of time. It's a rabbit hole, man. You could go down and around and around.

Well, at the end of the line, it's you guys. You guys are the tip of the spear. What is the attitude? Yeah, what do you think? Yeah, amongst, like, SEAL Team 6. Like, how do they feel about these guys that were inaccurately portrayed or inaccurately assessed and then wound up being stuffed into these hell holes for years, tortured, beaten

who knows what the fuck they're doing to those guys look, we know what happened with those photos that got leaked for Abu Ghraib I mean, what the fuck, man it's just a little naked pyramid and some dogs and whatever like chemical waterboarding and all the stuff that they did to those guys Come on, it's just a little naked pyramid. Naked pyramid and some dogs and whatever.

Like chemical waterboarding and all the stuff that they did to those guys. I mean... We know about all that, right? Yeah. I can only speak for myself. You know, I can't speak for the military or anybody else. But, you know, to me, it's a very, very simple decision. I'd fucking kill him. You'd kill him because you would think that they would go out and...

I would rather err on the side of killing somebody who hasn't done anything than allow somebody to go out there and perpetuate violence on somebody else straight across the board. So you don't think that someone who hasn't done violence, who has been locked up against their will, you don't think that they deserve a shot. You don't think that they deserve like an opportunity to prove that they're not radicalized. I think once they're radicalized like that it's you know you just killed mandela right who's mandela nelson nelson mandela gandhi like anybody you know what i mean it's like those guys also are in that kind of a position it's a good point it is a good point and like i said i can only speak for myself and this is probably why i'm not in the position of making policy and i don't control get no right from my a guy who has to make split second decisions to save your life and the life of all the people you love and care for because they're all around you and they're all in the firefight.

There's the lowest form of gnarly shit. Not even the way that the things that they've done against the U.S. But like some of the things that I've seen of how they treat each other in their countries and these super radicalized areas that are hard to get into. Like, I mean, it's just I don't even know how to describe it. For instance, give me a chaining Mongolian like inbred kids to fucking beds and leaving them in rooms like and just the way that they'll treat women where like i mean like i entered a room and i didn't even recognize what the being was and it was fucking chained to a floor in a room that i went into because it was just angry and inbred and they'd go in and know they'd smack it around and throw out some food and like if you're willing to do that to a human being like you don't get a second chance from me.

How often is this taking place? I mean, how many people are treating inbreds like this? Is this like— I mean, that's just an easy scenario that I can come back to, you know what I mean? Because that one was, like, seared into my head. I'm just like, what in the hell? You know what I mean? But, you know, look at what's going on if you're a homosexual over in—

Any ISIS-controlled state. Yeah, what do they do? They're throwing you off a uh any isis controlled they're throwing you off a fucking roof yeah they're getting you to the top floor and they're chucking people and i'll give to this here's a better one how sex slaves really 12 13 year old sex slaves like come on like those are but the only people doing that are the radical ones right i mean like i don't have a problem with and alabama well yeah but here's the thing radicals in alabama scare the shit out of me too right i don't mind moderates across the board like you can be a catholic you can be a christian right i don't care if you're a muslim and you're praying in the corner i'd prefer you not detonate yourself afterwards right but i'm okay with it so i gotta i want to say too

like coming where i come from is like i say what i say but like I'm sure I would have a different view walking in your shoes and but that yeah so it's it's the radicals that once you get to that level first off like if you're weak enough to have your mind changed like that and you can't stand for the morals that you know to be true like it's it's a problem well there's one thing changed and there's one thing developed in that environment there's a big difference between someone who's changed and another when people people imitate their atmosphere and if that's all you know and that's the world you know and you think that islam is the truth you think that the quran is the doctrine that you have to follow and that 72 virgins are waiting you in heaven then sex slaves are permitted then there's all sorts of things

that are halal that you know we would think of as being horrific that are totally permitted it's it's it's it's societal standards and culture is is a big part of this the way people decide what's acceptable what's not acceptable so to these people i think for us growing up in america it's almost impossible to understand what it would be like to be living in like one of the most radicalized parts of the world you can't understand the radical behavior which is why i have no problem saying that a guy who went and did nothing but became radicalized like to me that's that's a rote mathematical equation right there like it's uh you know it's a hard one because you know people still say to this day and age like you know you shouldn't you shouldn't kill right we need to the counterinsurgency strategy is based off winning the hearts and minds of the people that

we're going into the countries that we're going into. And I think the only way that I can describe it that makes sense to people where that might at least allow them to think outside of the education aspect is that, and you kind of, you, you alluded to the point a little bit, but I mean, you have daughters, right? Do you love your daughters? Yeah. Like how much though? Like articulate for me how much you love your daughters. It's impossible for anybody to ever express it in a way that someone who doesn't have daughters would ever understand or sons or children. Totally. And so love is a good analogy because if you can understand how hard it is to articulate that, then you understand that there's another side of that coin and that there's a community of people somewhere on earth that hate you to the exact same degree that you love your children and can't articulate and would do everything they fucking can to end our way of life because we let women go outside and have their skin exposed.

You can say what you want. You can think what you want. You can think what you want. And what's the solution to solve that? It's not books. There's not a single... I could put you in captivity for 14 years, Joe, and I could never convince you not to love your daughters. Right?

Yeah, but it's not our job to change... No, but hold on. So what I'm saying is, though, is that people think that there's... It's like, oh, you don't have to go over there and you don't have to fight. Well, fuck that. At some point, you have to stand up for what you believe in. Right.

And when it comes to those people that hate you as much as you love your kids. Again, there's a small segment of that that you could probably turn with books in captivity. Right. Which is what's happening to the guys who get radicalized and get more. But for the other segment that would like nothing more than to end your life and everything you believe in, what's the solution? It's not fucking books.

Yeah, what is the solution to try to turn a guy around once they've reached that level of radicalization? You can't. So you either have to find something or believe in something to the point that you're willing to fight for it. Because here's the deal. We're X people. And then there's Y people.

And regardless of what your X is, you're Christian, Catholic, whatever, you're an X person, there's somebody who's a Y person. X and Y people are going to fight. If you believe in what you believe enough, then to protect that, at some point, you're going to have to go beyond the educational aspect of that. But isn't that only the case in a place like a radicalized part of the world? It's not really the case in America. In America, we have people who disappear. You don't think those people are here? Well, they are, but what are they doing? They're not doing anything. You know what I'm saying? And maybe it's out of fear, and maybe

it's out of being outnumbered. Maybe it's out of the ideal of the people. But in America, if you believe some wacky shit, like if you're a Mooney or whatever the fuck you are, we're like, yeah, he's a poor bastard. He's out there giving money to L.on hubbard who gives a fuck you know you know what i'm saying but we let it go if i believe that you're crazy as anything for believing in whatever it is i'm not out there trying to change your mind but if you look in your neighbor's window say if you

and you have a daughter if you looked in your neighbor's window you saw your neighbor putting on a fucking bomb vest and uh you and kneeling towards the east and praying, and you had a rifle, tell me you wouldn't want to put one in his brain right there. If you knew that this guy- You got to check the calendar first. It could be Halloween. So let's not jump to conclusions. I mean, fuck, Joe.

I'm not saying murder. Jesus. You're right. I understand. You need to come back off the edge a little bit. I get this coffee. It's this fucking caveman coffee. Easy.

It's very, very excitable. And again, this is a rabbit hole topic too. It is a rabbit hole. You can go round and round and round because people just don't want to say, yes, you should kill that person. And I get that. Well, I feel like you should. I have zero problems with ending people like that. But where do you draw the line? And like people like that.

Because, because you can talk all kinds of shit to me. You can yell at me. You can do all kinds of stuff to me until you come and you grab my girlfriend or, or shove my mom or something like that. You're safe. Yeah.

As soon as you cross the line, you're fucked. Yeah. But don't, well, when you hear someone talking crazy shit though, you escalate and you put it in them in a category like, Oh,

you might be a problem. You know, now when you have a whole like, oh, you might be a problem. Now, when you have a whole country filled of you might be a problem, that's when things get real weird, right? But then the problem is, how do they get to be that? And that's one of the big issues with the United States foreign policy, military intervention, military industrial complex that keeps fucking with all these different parts of the world and puts good soldiers and good people in jeopardy. And for that, you'll never get an argument from me.

You'd be amazed at how many people in the military don't necessarily agree with the foreign policy of the United States of America. That's what I was going to ask. I know. I've talked to them. I've had emails from them. I mean, I've had a million of those guys. Yeah. And don't get me wrong.

Like, it's after I spent the large majority of my adult life in the military, and I disagreed with a fucking large volume of stuff and where I could push back and impact that I did. And other times when I couldn't, it's like, you know. What can you do, though? Like, say, if you're over there and you're always responsible for your personal actions. Right. So, you know, at the end of the day, most people don't know. Right.

In Afghanistan, up in the Konar Valley, which is like inaccessible unless you're a fucking reindeer or have a ch-47 and you can go up there you know like you could ask somebody hey where's osama bin laden and they'll be like who's osama bin laden right you know what i mean they're so detached yeah so in those environments or any time that you're actually interfacing with those people or those cultures like they're looking at you as the United States of America. Sure. So I can at least conduct myself in a manner that is commensurate with the moral values that I have, regardless of my thoughts about the foreign policy of the company or the country, you know, that I'm over there to represent. Company.

You could say company. That's right. Well, don't think there's a lot of money. Believe me, there's a lot of money made off the military. That's all that we're in war for. I mean, people think it's to go turn the hearts and plant democracy and all that, but it's only for money and to feed the military industrial complex. There is no other reason. I'll go down the road with you on that a little bit, but that's not the only reason.

Who do you think is culpable for Guantanamo Bay terrorists being made? What do you think is culpable for Guantanamo Bay terrorists being made? I mean, who do you think is culpable for going in and attacking sovereign countries for oil under the auspices that we're going to find the real terrorists? Push back on it a little because there are parts of the world where people become a threat and you have to figure out at what point in time do you step in? Do you allow these people to get nuclear weapons and do what we did to Japan? Do you allow these people to get to... Look, it wouldn't take much. I mean, one of the things if you read about history is empires fall. All the time.

And they always have. And we are an empire. Sure. You know, it's whether we are a just empire or not is fucking completely debatable. Yeah. But there's... If we fell, there would be a vacuum and it would be filled. It's a matter of who would fill it.

And if you can have something like ISIS in 2015, if you can have – like we saw what happened when Libya was overthrown. We saw the dynamic chaos that's going on right now in Iraq. I mean they're having a fucking Muslim holy war between the Sunni and the Shiite right now, 2015. war between the Sunni and the Shiite right now, 2015. Ungodly levels that I guarantee you that the modern day media is nicking the 1% of the truth on the ground. Those guys are fucking

insane. Yeah. So this is going on right now. And we assume that because the United States of America is the dominant superpower in the world because we have so much... And the way we look at things is different. If you walk through the streets of New York and Los Angeleseles you're relatively safe much more safe than any human being has ever been in any other time we assume that this is static that this is going to

stay this way but not not as americans we also assume it's like that everywhere else but but if yes you're right that's a very good point that's a very good point and that's that's what sort of dictates our ideas about how the rest of the world should and shouldn't behave, or how we should and shouldn't interface with the rest of the world. But if some shit went down, a fucking nuclear bomb gets dropped in Chicago. Oh, yeah. It levels the city. The infrastructure gets crushed. The power grid goes down for a couple weeks.

Chaos, starvation, and then an army attacks. Whether it's the army attacking with fucking drones or satellites, who knows what the fuck could happen. But a significantly diminished armed forces, significantly diminished country, the whole world could fucking change overnight. Overnight. Overnight. A natural disaster, Yellowstone blows,

the whole world changes overnight. And we're living like the Mongols. I mean, that literally could happen inside of a year inside of a year a whole world could do a total 180 yep so the united states armed forces or any armed forces that is in a position of power that has a a moral a moral and ethical imperative if they're looking at people like isis they're looking at regardless of how they were created regardless whether or not these guys were formed in guantanamo Bay against their will, you've got to figure, like, what's the endgame here and how do we engineer the future? But do we have a moral and ethical government or military?

I mean, in those ways, it's like, or is it chasing greed? It's like or is it chasing greed? I mean at that point I look at it and I go is our best course then to go out and eradicate people or is it to change our foreign policy? And and to not be kind of Bullish in the world. It's a good question, but you kind of got to deal with what the table is right now Yeah, you can't ignore what's like at your doorstep, but I think there's truth to what do you feel? Yeah? I think there's you're doing it. Well, I'm not in it anymore. I think there's truth to both. Like Joe's saying, if the pizza guy is ringing your doorbell, you might want to go handle that.

But at the same time, you need to go and think about, I personally believe you need to think about the things that is causing and shaping the world. Let's draw ISIS back. Where did it come from? Well, didn't we build them to fight Syria? I wouldn't say we built them to fight Syria, but, like, let's take it back to 9-11, right? Like, why did we go to Afghanistan in the first place? Why did we go to Iraq? Right.

Because we went to Saudi Arabia. The first party was in Iraq. So as far as Afghanistan, though, like, you want to talk about something that I think, you know, they definitely were. It was a it was a not a breeding ground, but it was a place where people felt safe to go and train to do harm to the United States. So going there to push that out of Afghanistan, I think, was a solid move. Right. But, you know, you fast forward 14 years and I think we largely self-created the problem, right? Because we occupied, we pushed them out. Now they're like, fuck.

I mean, they learn just like we do. Like, it's an amazing game of chess. It's just like the only difference is it's like playing chess in a drawing machine and it's on. So the board's constantly shifting and you've got to keep track of all your pieces. So we went in and invade. We push out. Now they know they're not safe in Afghanistan and they know it's no longer safe to cohabitate in one area.

So what do they do? They disaggregate. And then they get Iraq and Afghanistan. Then they disaggregate. And all the other areas around the world, they start communicating with the internet. So we actually made the problem exponentially harder for ourselves with the best of intentions. Or did we have the intention to make it harder for ourselves? Well, obviously, I think you're confusing politicians to do that.

I think people are opportunists. And this is like the argument about 9-11 being an inside job. I think it's much, much more likely there was incompetence and then that people capitalize on an opportunity to do something they've always wanted to do you know that i've afghanistan and you know that dick cheney and and bush had been talking about going into iraq and trying to form a strategy for going in iraq for a long time 9-11 comes around they're like look we got it here here's our reason that the idea that that was all orchestrated is a very convoluted idea. And I don't necessarily think the facts support it. I think the facts, if you look at human history, it's way more likely

that you're dealing with massive incompetence than you're dealing with a massive conspiracy. What do you think about Arab Spring? You ever see Wesley Clark, General Wesley Clark? Yeah, fascinating. Well, I think he's 100% being honest and accurate about that when he's talking about all the different plans and strategies of invading all these different places. But I think that when something like 9-11 comes around, it's a green light for these assholes. And before this happened, I think they just didn't have a real way to do it. I think you've got both, is what I'm trying to say.

I think you've got both incompetence, and then you've got people like Dick Cheney that are clear chicken hawks and was fucking, I mean you can't be any more transparent than a guy that's running a company that rebuilds shit after we blow it up and then decides to go blow shit up. I think there's actually a lot of supporting documentation to like

there being a lot of the chicken hawk stuff people just standing by like they want to do stuff and they're waiting for the impetus where it's going to be... How about when that happens? The society will be like, yes. They'll be like, yes, okay, you can go do this. Because in a lot of that stuff,

in a lot of that, you know, the military machine, once the cart has left the barn, it's a tough fucker to get back in the barn. So they definitely had plans. Like, there was pre-existing plans for the invasion of Saudi, and even for OIF, you know what I mean?'s it definitely existed what's oif operation iraqi freedom oef is

afghanistan they since changed the names to i don't know what it is but i think it's both like 9-11 is it possible that that was a conspiracy sure is it plausible i don't think so i i believe exactly you do the gross incompetence because i go through the airport all the time and i see the people who are screening me this day and i know for a fact that it was gross incompetence because the guy's fucking drooling looking at the the little monitor coming by you know what i mean as my bag goes through yeah so i think it was a combination of the two but i don't know i mean i think that you're confusing i don't know. I mean, I think that you're confusing. I don't know. I'm not gonna say I don't think you're confusing politicians with the military. Right. You might be surprised at how little I think most politicians have any effect over the military themselves.

Certainly. I don't think they have a lot of effect over the government either. I think that. No, they don't. Right. And I and I'm certainly pro-military to 1,000%. I think that people get tricked and they get put in impossible situations. That's not possible, Tate. You can only be 100% of anything. You can't be 1,000% Tate. 100% doesn't exist, Tate. So Tate's king for a day.

I was going to ask you about that. What's your first move? You're king for a day. You've got 24 hours to set a policy in place that's going to last for 12 months. You've got 24 hours to do that? Yeah, that's going to last for 12 months. You've got 24 hours to do that? Yeah, that's not enough time. Sure it is. I'm going to need a couple weeks. You have 24 hours. I'm going to need to grow the mushrooms.

I'm going to need to figure out how to get them to the Middle East. I'm going to need some time. I need to figure out a way to starve these people to get them to eat mushrooms. I'm going to get them covered in chocolate or camel or whatever the fuck they eat. But it's a tough question, right? Because everybody will sit back and they'll tell you how it's fucked up.

But like, alright, what would you do? What would you do? I think you've got to destabilize corporations and that kind of thing. What? What the fuck? This is anarchy talk from a guy who drives a Toyota. What the fuck? Are you going to ride a camel to work? How are you getting around destabilizing corporations? Jesus Christ.

I mean, you look at a company like Tesla, you look at anything That motherfucker's a corporation. The idea that, yeah, but the idea that it's different. If you have a corporation with unabashed drive for profit, you're in a bad place, and that's where we are. And that's what's wrong with our country, for sure.

Yeah, well, when you have unlimited growth, and that's your motto. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that is a real issue. That's a real issue because it'd be- That's why if you have a heart and conscience behind your corporation, that's different. But right now we have politicians that are simply a shadow of corporations. Well, there's also a fact- That's ridiculous.

There's also a problem that when a corporation does something fucked up, the people inside the corporation aren't held responsible like individuals. They can't be. You have a diffusion of responsibility. There's too many guys, because you're not a bad guy. You're not a bad guy. I'm not a bad guy. We're all just pushing our pen this way and that way.

Right. So you get to a certain number. Okay, like, let's look at Caveman Coffee. Caveman Coffee is a small company. Right. Well, what if Caveman Coffee grows to be something like Folgers or Maxwell House, and we find out that you guys are shacking people? Right.

But how does that happen? How does a company like halliburton come about how does it get from an idea to a few employees greed and ego right i guess greed is a big one and then the business model is a big one right and then the ability to justify and rationalize fucked up decisions right the diffusion of responsibility that comes from a large group acting in a fucked up way yep yeah exactly so let me ask you this because as a decorated veteran who's seen combat what if you in hindsight is of course 2020 not not criticizing any decision that had been made

but if you saw not what you've seen and you 9-11 happened today what's the move what what do you do do you invade iraq you know i'm guilty of personally believing the spin that was on the iraq war you know what i mean it's uh you believe it currently or you believe no i believed it at the time you know what i mean and everybody did i would argue colin powell was on tv he's so credible and i'd argue my dad would be like he's everybody's hurt yeah my dad's a vietnam vet and he'd be like no this is this is fucked this has got all way yeah dad thought that he did what did he think what was he he was just like no this is bullshit we have no business going in there this two aren't connected right because they tried to tie the al-qaeda from afghanistan to iraq and I would argue with him, you know, and I believed it.

I mean, the first target we hit in Iraq was the number one chem bio target in that country. And it was a fucking agricultural school that was growing tomato plants. Wow. So was that just bad intelligence? You know, we looked at that target for a couple weeks. We had schematics. We had experts on air conditioning coming and telling us, you know, like, look at this. Look at all the air conditioning that they have.

It's like it's for the ventilation system. And now in hindsight, I'm like, it's really hot there in the summer. That's probably why they had all that air conditioning. Yeah, it gets like 140 fucking degrees, right? In the shade, you know? And then like, oh, but look, you know, there's this tube that comes out twice a year, which is to the greenhouse, you know. So, I mean, not only did I believe it, but we were pursuing it as, you know, we were going after chem bio stuff. Now, in hindsight, I don't think I would have myself personally, you know, if I was king for the day, I wouldn't have invaded either. If I

could use modern day technology, and this is still what I think I personally would do today, is I would pull back all the US forces in Afghanistan and the ones that are near Iraq. And instead of occupying, which has been proven to be ineffective time and time and time again. It creates enemies. Not just ineffective, but effective in creating enemies. I would develop the intelligence to be certain of the people that we're looking for. You know, you got to leverage the assets. And so sometimes you might be wrong with these surgical strikes. But I'm okay with that. But I would go surgically as opposed to occupying. And I would leverage all the resources to do it that way as opposed to putting an infrastructure in place that costs billions of dollars to support.

It's because you're a goddamn American, Andy Stumpf. Last I checked, yes, I was. Not like these cocksuckers that put us into this. Goddamn. And that's the American serviceman. But I'm looking at this from 15 years. Exactly. I'm looking at this in the rearview mirror, and I was just as guilty.

I'm like, fucking goddammit, Osama bin Laden is in Baghdad. That's where everybody thought he was. No, not at all. But you know what I mean? They made the connection. They made the connection that al-Qaeda has a loose connection. you know, again, it's hindsight's 20-20. But again, you just can't

occupy. You cannot occupy because it doesn't work. Now, do you believe that, like, so when you say you go in and you kind of change policies and you're working assets that are there, you get more assets if you're judicious, right? You get more assets. Do you believe in a universal justice and harmony in that way of like, if America is behaving in a proper and appropriate way in the world, yeah, there's going to be radical

assholes that are here and there and whatever, but there's going to be assets within those countries that are going, this is working for righteousness for all people. Is that a thing? I don't think that the scales would balance in that regard because you're talking about the difference between rational thought and irrational thought. And irrational people just take it too far. You know what I mean? You got a pound on one side and then an irrational guy's got two pounds.

Yeah. So you could have a million people, you know, rationally thinking or nine people with fucking box cutters irrationally thinking. And you can look at, you know, what happens. You know what I mean? The scales just don't, they don't balance themselves and the way of human nature is you always look at it's all you only vote for what you don't like you don't really vote for what you like yeah you know it's like that's kind of how we're cut in a way well it's easier to point out things that are mistakes i mean it's easier for me to articulate bad leadership than be like good leadership be

like what is it that he's doing how difficult difficult is it to try to formulate correct intelligence about a country on the other side of the planet? And what are you doing to get, that's one of the things that's always gotten me, like, what are they using? Are they using satellite imagery? They're using knowledge of the architectural schematics of the buildings. We try. CIA guys on the ground.

They're not very accurate. Yeah. I mean, what can you do to try to figure out what they're doing? We try. CIA guys on the ground. They're not very accurate. that you'd like to have taken care of is, and when you realize it's populated across multiple countries, and they communicate over an electronic medium that we can't control, and they don't get together because they understand what happens when they do get together. And they communicate through fucking photographs that you can send on Instagram. They can send a photograph on Instagram or on YouTube.

They can send a video and have metadata in that photo that they have to take it, and they send it through a filter, and they figure out what you're trying to say. You could send them a picture in an email, hey, man, I'm just chilling here in fucking Canoga Park, eating a sub, and have you smile with a meatball sub, and there's metadata in that they can transcribe, and then they figure out what the fucking message is.

That was a lot of how they were communicating back and forth, was with encrypted data. And their savagery is almost like Genghis Khan savagery. Like 5,000 guys are going in and turning a city of 50,000 away, and they're running before they get there. You know what I mean? People aren't confronting them at all. I mean, they put dudes in cages with a trail of gasoline and light them on fire.

Like, damn, dude. And they filmed it in slow motion. Yeah. I mean, they use high-tech equipment. That's the other thing is that they have access to equipment and high-tech technology that, you know, technology has reached such an incredible level that the average person has access to some pretty fucking significant shit. And if you're an evil person on the other side of the planet you can keep track of a lot of stuff that's going on i mean drones fucking anybody could buy a drone now right you could

have drones up in the air with video cameras a lot of guys are good at them yeah yeah i mean you could they operate on cell phones you know they have drones now that work on virtual reality headsets i've used them you put a virtual reality headset on and you have a drone flying around. You fucking see everything. Yeah. I mean, there's so much that we can do now as like regular consumers. You got to imagine with the amount of money that a group like ISIS has. I mean, they've been stealing money for a long time now. They have fucking billions of dollars. And that's why I think occupation doesn't work.

I mean, it may be, you know, maybe have a presence at a base nearby so you can have a staging point. But I think we're, I think that everything has changed from, I don't think you're going to see these mature battle areas anymore. I mean, mature areas of war because it's all going to be surgical. At least I hope. Because, again, that's the direction that I would go with it. I mean, it's lower risk than exposing a large force over a truncated time period. And isn't there also a big issue right now with our drawn out sort of Cold War battle being brought back to life? We've got a real issue now with Russia, right?

I mean, this whole Putin thing, it seems like there's a real animosity between Russia and the United States that is rekindled that we didn't feel for decades. You know, Putin has kind of brought this back to life. And strategically, if he should decide to align himself with people that are the friends of ISIS, like not necessarily ISIS themselves, but just close enough and close enough proximity that he can sort of fuel that fire. Whether it's with information, with strategy, with money, arms, equipment, like nuclear bombs.

I mean, that's the ultimate, right? That's what everyone's more terrified of than anything, is that some radicalized, crazy fucking group gets a hold of a bomb and decides to blow Paris up or decides to blow whatever. Can you imagine that? Downtown New York and somebody clocks one of those things off. Look, that's the spot, right? New York is the spot. If you want to get a lot of attention, they've hit it twice, right? That's the spot.

That's the epicenter of attention for terror in the world. If you want to really make a fucking big splash, you go to New York. Bin Laden's been there twice. Allegedly. Who knows? Moves like a ghost. He'll be still alive Ted loves this Ben Laden Like Tupac

Yeah He could be like Tupac I mean look There was a great article From Fucking During When Ben Laden was involved

With the Mujahideen I forget what publication It was in But somebody Posted it recently And it was when Ben Laden was our ally And There was this like Puff piece On Ben Laden Really it was in, but somebody posted it recently, and it was when bin Laden was our ally.

And there was this puff piece on bin Laden and how important it is that bin Laden... See if we can find that, Jamie, if you can find it. It was during the time when Russia was invading Afghanistan, and we were arming the Mujahideen, and we were training them and helping them to fend off the Soviet Union. Because we didn't want a Russian pipeline. Yeah. It was a classic enemy of our enemy. Exactly. Scenario is what played out. Exactly. And they were making it out like this guy

who was CIA trained this guy Osama Bin Laden was you know was a real hero and then turned on America and you know to them it's the best piece of evidence and if you look at the way we respected and trained and thought of Osama bin Laden and then Osama bin Laden became our number one enemy it's the best piece of evidence that the United States is evil and corrupt to

them I mean it's like look this is the guy that was your number one guy over there. He was the guy that you trained to fight off the Russians. And now he's saying, you know, the Russians were a problem. The United States is a bigger problem. This is the real problem. And then, boom, everybody's... It's the story of the prodigal son gone bad. Do you think that they...

What is your thought on the Osama bin Laden, the killing of Osama bin Laden and dumping him in the ocean? Two thumbs up. But no, I would imagine that. But I mean, do you think that definitely happened? Because I've talked to guys, I've talked to special ops guys that don't even believe that happened. They go, I think that guy was dead. They're like, we think that guy was dead for a while.

And they think that that's why there's no pictures of him. There's no, there's no anything. There are plenty of there a fucking cryo chamber somewhere in Pakistan? Well, there's no pictures of him. There's no anything. There are plenty of pictures of him. No. But I know guys who have firsthand. So he sounds like UFO people. Yeah. I've seen the photos.

Yes. And 747s when they fly over are spraying chemical contrails as well, too. It's not just the condensation in the air. Chemtrails! Yeah. No, I haven't personally seen him. You know, I wasn't there. I had left the command long before that actually happened.

But if talking to people that were there, I have no reason to doubt the people that I have talked to that were physically present when it happened. So you've talked to people that were there as it happened? Yeah, absolutely. So you 100% buy the official narrative? Yep. Okay. I'll abandon my conspiracy. I mean, that's kind of, it changes things when? It changes things when it's like... No, but what is the conspiracy? I know my best friend was standing there. Well, the conspiracy is that he was already dead and that they were waiting for a strategic

time to... Yeah, but what's the value of killing Osama Bin Laden? Well, it was when the election, when the re-election was happening. I could buy... Okay. So you think it was purely political play? That's the conspiracy theory? That's the conspiracy.

Well, the theory comes about because why do you make his body disappear so nobody can ever see that? There's not genetic testing, all that. Isn't that the idea? So there was DNA taken. Okay. And I can tell you the reasons that I was told. By leaving the body there, it would have basically turned that into a new, I don't want to say Mecca because that's the wrong word, but a new shrine to whatever he stood for. a new, I don't want to say Mecca because that's the wrong word,

but a new shrine to whatever he stood for. So they removed the body, gave it the Muslim burial that it deserved or did not, depending on, you know, which way you swing on that opinion. What's the Muslim burial? I think it, I'm not an expert on it, but I believe it requires a certain amount of washing. You have to be shrouded in a certain way. I mean, I would rather have that. I would rather either, you know, cremate the body and get rid of it somewhere or put it somewhere that people can't go to and worship some douchebag. You know what I mean?

Well, if you look at what's happened since then, it was effective. Because even though he is a revered guy in that culture, there isn't a spot where you can go to that they think of as this holy spot where he died. And even though he has been a martyr, there's no images they put around social media. So they did mitigate that. Yeah. And so by not releasing the images, I think it's better. Right. I know for a fact that they did DNA testing.

You know, he has relatives that have come to the U.S. It wouldn't be impossible to get a DNA strand that you could, you know, match back to the guy. So, you know, as far as the execution goes, I mean, I think it went really well. Did it have a political gain? I think you can't argue that it didn't. You know what I mean? It definitely did. But in my own mind, I don't know if that's enough to justify a conspiracy.

I buy the, you know, maybe I'm an idiot, but I buy the, you know. No, the official narrative makes sense. I just, conspiracies are fun. I get excited about them. I think that's what gets people wrapped up in Bigfoot or Chemtrail. And then there's enough fuckery that goes on. For sure, like going into Iraq. You're like, for sure, that's bullshit.

Like, for sure. Now I say that. I wasn't saying that in 2003. But there's enough stuff where billions of dollars goes towards that. The devastation of millions of dollars goes towards that. The devastation of millions of people and all that stuff for not, not for the just cause that we think of it. Well, how about what we know about? How about what we know about for sure?

Like the negotiation of the hostages in Iran during the Carter administration. They made sure those hostages were not released until after Reagan was president. Yeah. That's a fact. We all know that. We all know that for political gain, they left those Americans entrapped. We know that. Let's be honest. If anybody thinks a politician is out for anything other than themselves or their own things that are good for them, then you're probably operating from not a really good standpoint.

Well, you say that, but have you seen Bernie Sanders' photo of him with Jesus? Because I don't know What the fuck You're talking about now Now you're talking crazy Jesus is literally His homeboy I have the same picture

In my office Joe You don't I'm getting one There's a guy Who's making them He's making prints We're going to hang it up In the office

What did I say I said Bernie Sanders Bernie Sanders Did I say Bernie Sanders Damn it They're all crazy to me They're all interchangeable I should have said

Hillary Clinton You've achieved another level of when you do an abstract watercolor painting of Jesus holding your shoulder. It's not abstract. It's as it happened to Ben. Oh, okay, got it. It was actually just sketched in life. Not Bernie Sanders. I think that we need

a Brian Stan president next really because I feel like the next president if Putin is the real deal and he is, man man that dude is a G he's scary you need to have a guy as president that's willing to get on a horse and joust him to death or something like

that like you gotta have somebody viable up there it can't be these fucking people that are available now for us that's not gonna work well could you imagine what like if Putin and Obama had a fight to the death How embarrassed we would be Embarrassing

That's what I'm saying We need Brian Stanton How quickly would Putin Trip Obama and have him On his back And just be beating his brains in I can't believe you actually Had to make that analogy

It's going to be stuck in my head It's just what it would happen I love the idea Clench up Trip boom on his back Mount Full mount Elbows to the eye sockets

Just death It would be horrible. We would never grow our dicks back in America. Is that a problem? I mean, do we need a leader that knows how to fight? Yes, everybody. It's a duty to know how to fight. When was the last time we had one?

Teddy Roosevelt? Yep. Who was the last guy? Ronald Reagan was probably like a guy that you would think of as being a tough guy, but he probably goes down quick. He's a pussy. Yeah, I think he pretended to be a tough guy due to his Thessalian background. So who else?

George Bush Sr. would put a fucking knife in your ear. He would kill you with a pen. He's probably got special pens made. The first G. Bush? Yeah, the old dude. Yeah, he was the head of the CIA. Yeah, that dude was badass. He was legit.

He was killing people. Yeah, he was legit head of the CIA. Yeah, that dude was badass. Numbers and killing people. Yeah, he was legit. So who else? George W.? No. But you look at, yeah, it's so sad. It is Teddy Roosevelt. George W.? But you look at, like, Hugo Chavez, Putin.

You look at all these other leaders. They're like, you're like, that dude's probably about some shit. You look at our guys and you're like, that's an impotent old dude. Bill Clinton, I bet, could make some fucking phone calls. That's true. He might not be able to kill you himself, but I bet Bill Clinton makes some phone calls. And he would charm the socks off you. I don't know about all that.

Come on. I don't think so. I know too much. I know too much. I look at his eyes. I would see him. McDonald's eating. Fucking jogging motherfucker.

Jogging? I'm mad at him for jogging. I remember the old days. I remember the old days. I don't give a fuck with this new vegan Clinton this new guy who's buying the China study which by the way

has been disproved Bill that's crazy go read into it biased information sir Callum used to be into that all the time I'm like are you serious the China study

yeah like he would post shit like that I'm like you need to read more books well the China study makes some good points about the American diet the typical American diet is terrible

but it's just like all that other stuff. It's like conspiracies. It's like there's enough truth mixed in with all this other stuff. Yeah, well, it's just bias information. You buy a sampling, pick the stuff that you want that supports your idea. Good food is good for you. Eat a lot of vegetables. It's great for you.

But eat only vegetables? There's not really a lot of evidence that says that's the way to go. Unless you have a specific bio situation, you know, like some people do have issues. You're the processing. There's three of five million people in the U.S. Not that many. It's like statistics, man. Statistics.

Yeah, I mean, I know people that like their body processes fish better. They eat meat. They fart too much. They don't like it. Yeah. You can justify any argument you want with a little study. I feel like that just made that up. I feel like that's not true.

I'm just stuck on Tate. The conspiracy. Yeah, well, people love conspiracies, man. Hey, listen, you just admitted that you fucked up about Iraq, so you can't tell me shit. No, no, no, no, no. Because I knew that that was- No, I admitted others fucked up and I was unwittingly caught up in the net. No, your mind fucked you.

I don't unwittingly get caught up in the net. Your mind fucked you. I don't unwittingly get caught up in the net. No, I'll be the first to admit it. We're just very lucky Eddie Bravo's not here right now. Oh, he would tell you about chemtrails. That's why I brought that up. I heard somebody talking about it the other day. Oh my god. Like while pointing at the aircraft that's apparently spraying agricultural stuff. I'm like, what are you talking about?

Southwest Airlines. Yeah. Well, it's this guy Mick West that runs a site called Metabunk. Oh, God. It's a debunking website. It explains in very objective detail why most conspiracies are bullshit. It explains, you know. Okay.

And that's why it's called Metabunk. And he calls it the training wheels of conspiracies. He's like, because it's right there. It's up in the sky. And, you know, you think about your childhood and you go, I don't remember those being there when I was young. And you just decide that they weren't there. I mean, I have these photos from old Clint Eastwood movies where there's contrails in the background or contrails in the background. Not on a Western, Joe.

Yes. No, they didn't have planes back then. I know, I know, but that's what's fucked up. These dummies, they're out there doing films and above them in the sky is fucking contrails. They're like, that's a curious cloud. That was a gassy oxen. Well, there's real conspiracies, right? I believe in all of them.

Well, the best one is- You're joking, right? All of them. Of course he is. Stop it. Of course he is. There's no way you could know everything, right? That's part of the problem.

Sure. There's no way. And we know that people have done's part of the problem. Sure. There's no way. And we know that people have done some devious shit in order to make money. Steady. In order to cover their tracks or in order to- Agendas of whatever nature. I mean, that's why when someone finds out about something like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq not being real, and they immediately go to the conspiracy angle where a guy like

you who was on the ground, can say, well, look, we really thought that was the case. And it's really hard to gather up that information. I mean, it's embarrassing to say looking back, but I mean, that's where our head was at. Those are guys on the ground. It's easy to convince guys on the ground of stuff. I'm saying the guys that put you on the ground.

Do you know what I mean? It's like they knew, they had evidence, they had data that they couldn't find it what they they said there's no evidence that there's no weapons of mass destruction there like time and time again that's why what's her name the cia agent got outed by those motherfuckers by uh yeah that was by right ten star right and scooter libby and all that yeah and and so there's that, right? Because her husband was supposed to come back with evidence. And George says, I want you to find weapons of mass destruction here. And he's like, there's just not. And then she's an undercover CIA operative.

And they out her in Africa while she's undercover. Wasn't that right when the war was kicking off? Valerie Plume. Valerie Plume. Wow, man, you got a steel trap for memory over there, Joe. I remember some shit. She lives in Santa Fe. Does she? Yeah. Why are you out? What's her address, Tate?

What does she do daily? Where does she take her Zoom? She's not into Zoom, but she does CrossFit. Oh, Jesus Christ. Which I've heard is Joe's favorite, but that's one of my favorite things to do. He just doesn't know enough. Well, I do a lot of the exercises that they do in CrossFit. I understand that, Joe.

Okay. You're a CrossFit guy, right? Sometimes. I'm more into that stuff now. I worked for the company for eight years. For CrossFit? Yeah. What's up with the number one dude being fat?

He's in good shape. I just saw him this summer. There's no way he's in good shape. Yeah, he looks great. Not like this motherfucker. Come on. Who's like that? You know, it's.

I like it when you do the one bicep and then the other. This and then this. That's old school. I already did that. That was fucking nice. You know what I mean? The program came from between his ears. You know what I mean?

Oh, okay. So it's knowledge as opposed to. Yeah. A lot of experience doing it. That dude is a G though, man. He's changed the lives and he's changed the face of fitness for everybody. Like, he's definitely, if you want to talk about somebody that has exacted change upon the American population and diets, that's the guy. He's definitely done some.

Huge, huge way. But his company has done it, right? And then when people see him, they go, hey, how come you don't look like you do it? I mean, it's a tough one. I don't know what he would say if you asked him straight to his face. I don't know what he would say if you asked him, do you partake in CrossFit workouts? Well, he's got like a bad body, right? There's something wrong with him, right?

He's got a bum leg. Yeah, and he was a bicyclist, right? That was what he did. He was a gymnast. He has a passion for bicycling. Right. I don't think he ever did it competitively. And you used to fly for him or something?

I did. I started off. He could fly planes. I got about 3,000 hours. Fly me some jets. Wow. I dabble in a lot of useless shit. So you worked for the company for a long time.

For four years, I taught at the seminars, just basically spreading Greg's conceptual foundation all over the world. Went all over. And then I managed the licensing and sponsorship deals when I came back off a military deployment in 2010. So I managed the Reebok deal that CrossFit has, and then started flying again, and then flew him for like three years as well too. So I was in the military doing all that double dipping while I was in.

What is your feeling on CrossFit? You can't argue with the effectiveness of the methodology. Like it totally works. I mean, the days of pumping iron and Arnold Schwarzenegger were awesome. You know what I mean? And I'd rather have people do that than sit on the couch and eat Doritos. But I think the argument for functional fitness and the ability to actually be able to do something with all the hard work you're doing, you can't argue against it really, right? It's, it's form over physique. Uh, and I, I need to be able to do it, to do the activities that I still do. Like I'm outside all day long, you know, eating shit all the time. Uh, so yeah, I mean, again, uh, long, long answer to a short,

short question. Uh, I do it. Yeah. The argument against it by guys who are very knowledgeable about strength and conditioning is that you shouldn't do power lifting exercises for large amount of reps and that it's damaging for the body. That's like what Steve Maxwell says. He says Olympic lifting, not power lifting. There's a distinction. Okay, well, deadlifts and cleans,

that kind of shit. That's power lifting, right? Cleans and snatches are. Power lifting is more like deadlifting. Olympic lifting is like the time you make opening and closing, like the snatch, the crawl, that stuff. I mean, can you go overboard? Sure. But you can kill yourself drinking too much water, too. I mean, you got to put that in perspective.

Well, Maxwell's problem with it has always been that it's a competition for exercise where he feels like exercise should be used to get you in better shape for competition. And then having a competition out of lifting weights, you lifting weights for a bunch of repetitions is silly. It is silly, but I would also say that's a bastardization of what the company actually stands for. The competition aspect was in a group classroom setting. And if you take that and expand it beyond that, it stops making sense at an exponential rate. It was just about putting a number on a board and holding you accountable for your performance. Right.

And if you're racing, if all three of us are doing – if I'm doing something by myself that has a time component to it and then you two come in the room and we're all going to do it together, you know damn well I'm like, how's Joe doing over there? Right, right. So it's not necessarily you're competing in exercise. It was the competition aspect of the workouts that would enhance – not enhance, but drive people to perform. It brings you into a deeper level of yourself. It also gets people excited.

Yeah. Right. It was never supposed to be about competing in exercise. So that's a slight misunderstanding of what the concept of the program is supposed to be about. People think the CrossFit Games is CrossFit, and they make a collusion with those, and that's just not true. It's an erroneous idea. The idea of CrossFit is getting somebody to not die of diabetes anymore. The idea of CrossFit is to change people's lives and to have that spread through communities and go,

God, my mom's doing this, and now she dropped 50 pounds and she stopped taking insulin. I thought the idea of CrossFit was just not being able to shut the fuck up about CrossFit all the time. That's what we're doing. That's how you know you're a CrossFitter. That doesn't... But that's jujitsu, too. Yeah, exactly.

All the best stuff is culty, right? And I think that ideas like Maxwell's spreading from what I'm hearing in that way is just bread of ignorance. It's like an idea... What? How dare you?

It's ignorant. How dare you? It is. How dare you? Well, I dare because of my education, I guess. Allow me to dare, Joe. That is how dare you well I dare because of my education I guess allow me to dare you know how I roll I walk through this motherfucker daring allow me to dare what happened in that do that one American guy who I think he was from Los Angeles had dropped the weight on his neck. Kevin Ogar? Yeah, he's paralyzed. He's just-

And he's got the best goddamn attitude ever. I saw him this summer, too, and he is a solid motherfucker. He's great, dude. You should talk to him. And the bar landed on his neck, right? It landed on his back, and it- Yeah, it was gnarly. I mean, basically, it was a clean break.

I think he was paralyzed from that instant. It wasn't like an onset, and they're like, oh, we'll wait until the swelling goes down. So his spinal cord snapped. It was like, yeah. Wow. It's crazy that a bar just dropping on you can do that. Well, it weighs almost 300 pounds. It's the perfect set of circumstances.

Yeah. He can do that. Yeah. And so there's no hope for him. That's just it. Oh, he's leading a whole new life. He's got a new epoch in his life, and he's leading these athletes that are mitigated by different paralysis and all that. And he's a signal.

He's become a symbol of hope and connectedness in this whole other regime. In my gym at Undisputed in Santa Fe, we've got four athletes that are in wheelchairs that compete and that drive and they get through this. You know, for those, Kevin went right into it because he was already an athlete. He already had that competition mind. But, you know, a lot of those guys, they go, they have an accident, they go through drugs, they go through suicidal ideas. And then after they're paralyzed for a while, they go, you know what, maybe I need to, I'm going to live this way a long time and maybe I need to change my life. And there's a whole group of communities that's doing it. Paralyzed from the neck down, the waist down?

No, he's the waist down. Kevin is. I tell you, it's amazing to me, though, how people take those horrible circumstances and it changes their life. He's one of the most beautiful lights ever, man, that guy. I don't think I would go down that road. I think I'd be looking for salvation

in the bottom of the bottle and then just suck starting a pistol in the morning. Suck starting a pistol. That's a nice way to put it. Like every morning, if that happened to me, I'd be like, toothbrush, six shooter. How the fuck did you get involved in this wingsuit craziness? How the fuck did you tell Tate on a previous podcast you wouldn't jump out of an airplane with me? Oh, I just won't.

Airplanes are really good for flying, and it's just not a good idea to jump out of an airplane with me. Oh, I just won't. Airplanes are really good for flying, and it's just not a good idea to jump out of them. You got into it because you were a jump instructor, right? I like taste answers. They're amazing to me. Tate, where was I born? Tell me about where I was born. Tell him about Iraq.

Weren't you a jump instructor? Yeah. Yeah. And so is that the first time you started jumping? So I started jumping. You know, SEAL stands for Sea, Air, Land. So you train for a variety of things. And when I first got into this.

I never knew that. You didn't know that? I don't know if he's fucking with me or not. That's honest. I didn't know that. It's one of the rare things I did know. Okay. So Sea, Air, Land. We're going to focus on the air portion of that. Okay. All right. So, you know that. That's one of the rare things I did know. Okay. So see air or land.

We're going to focus on the air portion of that. Okay. All right. So you get to a SEAL team. Keep it together, Tate. Tate, keep it together. Three of those fucking nitros, two cups of regular caveman. He's off the tilt.

Would you let him talk? I'm trying. So you get to a SEAL team and you're brand new. And nowadays, when you get your trident, the pin that is the designator that makes you a SEAL, you have to go through the jump training before. You go through static line, which is analogous to jumping off the roof of this building with no parachute, to free fall jumping, which is awesome. You're falling through the air and you're like the point break.

Point your toes, Johnny Fly. That's the good stuff. So when you get to the SEAL team, though, when I got into 97, because I wasn't free fall qualified, all we had to do or all we could do was static line jump. So we'd get on the plane with the free fall guys, and they would just sit there and laugh at us as we left the plane at, like, 1,200 feet on our little parachute, walking off the ramp with our static line, and bam, and, like, just eat shit into the ground. walking off the ramp with our static line and bam and like just eat shit into the ground and after about a week of that i'm like okay i've had enough of this static line shit so i went out found a civilian skydiving drop zone by my house uh and went through the six hours of required ground training and then seven jumps it took me all of two days to do that and then started jumping on my own got about 500 jumps myself and then challenged the military curriculum instead of having to wait the five years to go to get military free fall qualified because I was just tired of augering in on the static line jumps.

And then I just really liked it. And then I pursued development group was great for it because of like, what do you want to do? Explain what development group was. Development group is SEAL Team 6. They're, I think in this day and age, largely interchangeable. It didn't used to be like that. But they'd allow you to pursue stuff that you wanted to do. And I had a great boss.

And he was like, you like to jump. So you need to go to this school, this school, this school, this school. That's where I learned how to do tandems. It's where, you know, instead of being the jumper, I was the guy putting the guys out of the aircraft. So it just kind of led to a very diverse jump experience. Like I've had my toes in a lot of different like jump stuff. And then a buddy of mine was like, hey, man, you got to check out these wingsuits. And at first thought, I'm like, yeah, that looks like you're jumping in a straight jacket, man, because you're zipped up.

You're just like wobbling around. You look like a little, you know, a triangle flying through the air. And then I went and I started base jumping. And the guy who taught me how to base jump was just raving about him. I'm like, all right, that's it. I'm going to go. I'm going to go figure out how to do this. And so I ordered a suit that would not be recommended for a normal student.

Why? Because it was big. Like the more fabric, the more performance you can get out of it, but the more bent out of shape you can get to if it gets a little squirrely. So they're like, you should start on this suit. I'm like, yeah, but this one looks way better. So I'm going to order this one. And then I'm going to eventually jump this one. And this looks way better. So I'm going to order both at the same time. So I ordered both at the same time, did seven jumps in the suit that I was wildly underqualified to jump in, and then just put the big one on.

And never looked back. What was the first jump like? It wasn't that bad. I was actually, in my head, I thought it was going to be way worse because, I mean, I like to be able to do this. You know, like move around. And in the suit, you're just like. Locked in. You're locked in. And so, like, I had never exited a plane with all that material.

And I was afraid I was going to go out and just get smacked up into the wing or in the tail wing, which is having guys have hit their head and they're just done. Yeah, it happens. Uh, so I was all freaked out and then I go out and it's like laying on an air mattress on your stomach. I just kind of relaxed and I saw the ground moving and I'm like, holy shit, this is awesome. You're just flying. You're flying. I was flying really inefficiently. Here we go. Is that you? Yeah. Oh, wow. That's from 36,500 feet. 36,500 feet.

Do you have oxygen? Oh, yeah. That's the condensation coming out. So the exit I'm about to display for you is not very good. Why? Well, I caught my foot on the door. Oh, so you go upside down. Yeah. You're fucked up. Oh, yeah. And it gets worse. Oh, so you go upside down. Yeah, began. You fucked up.

Oh, yeah, and it gets worse. Oh, Jesus Christ, you're spiraling. Wow. How do you correct that? You have to dive the suit. So you've got to get the suit diving to get speed, and then I'm like, okay, here we go. So you figured out how to dive down, and then that stops the spin? You've got to think of the wingsuit like an aircraft wing.

If you stall it, it'll spin. So wingsuits like speed. They just want to go fast. The faster it goes, the more power you have. And I can actually gain altitude in my wingsuit. So I can go down and then flare back up and gain a couple hundred feet. How far?

You get a couple hundred feet. Can you continually do that? Like when does it end? Like for this particular jump, this was in August. Uh, that was 18.25 miles is what I traveled horizontally. Now, now do you know, do you know what your speed is when you're going? Do you know? Uh, not really. Do you have, you don't have a readout or anything like that? On that jump? Not only did I not have a readout, I didn't have an altimeter. All I had was an audible in my ear because I didn't want to have anything else.

I was afraid that the oxygen hose was going to wrap over it. There was just too many other complications. So I just went off of the audible, and then I calibrated camera one, camera two before I went. So when you're doing this, the first time you're doing this, are you doing it from this high? Like how high were you the first time you did it? So most skydiving is like 13,500 feet. That's pretty much about it. I mean, this took a lot of time in the making.

Like I was – That's an airplane, right? That was an airplane. But I started, you know, making the preparations for that in January of this year, and I did that in August. And that was a world record. Yeah. That was the farthest distance flown in a wingsuit, which is a completely irrelevant –

18 plus miles, something like that a completely irrelevant measure of horizontal distance. Right. And what time, like how much time are you spending from the time you jump out until the time you land? I was in free fall for just over eight minutes and then probably under canopy under the parachute for less than a minute. That's it? I pulled a little bit low. I didn't have an altimeter on, so like I said, I had an audible in my ear

that was set to go off at certain altitudes and the lower beep did not go off. But I calibrated my cameras before I went. I was like, camera one, camera two, camera one, camera two. Let's go. So I was calibrated. What does that mean, camera one, camera two? You're blinking. I calibrated my eyes.

Camera one's calibrated,rated camera two let's go How do you do that? I look at the ground. I'm like holy shit. It's super close big Yeah Wow cuz I had just gotten back from a month base jumping in Europe where I was used to pulling it like 400 feet So I had seen those visuals of the ground coming up and I had an altimeter alert set for 10,000 One set for 5,500 and my last one I wanted to go off at 3 so I got the 10,000, one set for 5,500. And my last one, I wanted to go off at three. So I got the 10,000 foot alert, no problem. 5,500 foot alert goes off, no problem. And then you kind of have like this mental, it's going to be after a while, you know how long it's going to be. So I'm just like flying, flying. I'm like, Hmm. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to wait. Right.

Cause you know, it's important. I'm going for distance. I'm just going to keep waiting and keep waiting. And I'm like, that tree down there is way too big. I'm out of here. Wow. So, yeah. You ever hear about these guys that want to land them? What? I'm one of those guys.

You want to land one without a parachute? Is that what you're saying? They land them in boxes. There's a guy that landed in boxes, right? A guy in Europe did. He put a neck brace on and put up some big cardboard boxes and flew it right into the boxes. How's he doing?

He's fine. Walked out of it. There was another guy, Jeb Corliss, who was talking about, like, basically taping a skateboard to his stomach and making this really long rant. Yeah, that sounds like something a guy named Jeb would do.

Jesus fucking Christ. His brother Dale couldn't get all the trucks for the skateboard together. Well, my cousin Cliff is gonna try, too. I mean, to me, though, I'm like, yeah, I mean, I would probably give it a go if I could rationalize it and figure out a way to, like, if it would be at least plausible or possible, I'd give it a go. What would be the way? I mean, I could see maybe in the ocean. And you can land in the water.

No, because you're going to be stuck in that soup. Your forward speed is like a buck 20. Hey. Yeah. Well, whack. If there's 20 guys that are doing that this year and there's no more that start, how many are doing it next year? Well, the skydiving and the base jumping. Base jumping like that.

I think 18 or 19. Is there a way that you could have a wing that's not fixed that's maybe expandable? Like you would reach a certain point. You've got your wing like this, right? You're flying around. Is there a way maybe you could release something that would give you a bunch of extra fabric and it would slow you?

I think I've seen this in the Batman movie. Hey, Siri. I didn't even say, Hey, Siri, but Siri's transcribing that. Have you noticed that? Have you used that? Well, the Chinese are trying to figure out what you've got going on. The Chinese are doing? Seriously? Did you use that? Yeah. Well, the Chinese are trying to figure out what you got going on.

The Chinese are doing it already. I broke up with her. They've tapped into my shit. I think I saw that on Batman Returns, that same concept that you're talking about. But you've got to have the electro gloves. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was thinking that maybe a way that you could release more fabric in the wings

and it would slow you down considerably. Like you could get to a point where you could hit it and it would puff back. Yeah. And then you could almost like hit the ground running. They're for sure going to do it. Somebody's going to do it. I don't know. How long has wingsuits been around?

I mean, there's a lot of impossible shit. 20 years, I think. 20 years. Yeah, they've been around. But the technological advances in those 20 years are insane. Like, it was literally before a fabric loop that went around your thumb and like a twin sheet that a guy sewed to his suit and was like, crazy fucks.

That is like me jumping off the garage with two garbage can lids, you know? It has happened. I've done that. So the pioneers, here's an interesting statistic of like the 80 people who are credited with developing wingsuits, 80 of them are dead.

Oh, Jesus. Good stat. Jesus Christ. And that's not old age either. No, no, but I bet you they went out with a smile on their face. Oh, I bet they didn't. How about that? I bet they did not.

Well, right before they realized they were going to die, they had a smile on their face. Oh, fuck, man. Were you smiling right until? Now, say that your cord doesn't go off when you're at 2,000 feet or wherever you are and you're pulled. Are you still smiling after that? Well, on that jump that we watched, I mean, I have a reserve. So I have a plan B. On base jumping, I mean.

How close do you have to get to the ground before it's too late? I mean, I had about a five-second canopy ride in Europe. So I was probably 150 feet off the ground when I pulled. And that's encouraging. when I pulled. That was emotional. That was a visually intense experience for me. That was the lowest I've ever opened a parachute. 150 is so low.

How many seconds is that from the ground? You're falling more than 150 feet a second. Really? Well, because you're only going about 30 down in your wingsuit. You've got more force. Okay, not like free driving. But the canopy opening i mean it opened and i hit the ground like four seconds later oh my god i sat down and thought about what the fuck i was doing for a while after that one oh my god and that for me it was not

enjoyable like i do this stuff because i love it right and because it i mean it makes my head right like if i didn't do that type of stuff my head would be it wouldn't be like i won't be able to think as clear it just it i can't articulate uh the clarity that it provides for me how so is it like you think you need to do dangerous shit because no of your past experience let me ask you this why do you have a sensory deprivation tank well because it allows me to be alone alone with my thoughts like literally alone yeah like you're and but you're are you present in the moment when you're there and you're alone up until the moment where i start tripping okay for me when i'm standing on like the edge of a cliff i it provides for me just a moment of clarity and being present in that moment like the closer you get and again this is i can only speak

for myself but the closer you get when in the base jumping world for me like when i'm getting ready to jump and i'm zipping up my sleeves and i'm doing my checks like i'm not thinking about my checking account balance anymore you know i'm not worried about fuck i gotta transfer money over blah blah blah it just slowly starts kind of fading away. And then you step up to the edge and it's, I mean, I've never seen color so clearly in my life. I've never, it just, it's a laser like focus on the next three seconds of my life. You're not worried about a minute down the road. You're not thinking about what you had for lunch, right? Because if you rock forward and step off, you better be ready for full speed life coming at you you need you got the rest of your life to figure out what the fuck's about to happen

and it's not that i like doing dangerous stuff and don't get me wrong i love the sensation of flying and it's great to be able to fly next to a cliff or down through a set of trees it's awesome but that that moment of clarity the only time i've ever had that is on like a helicopter at about the one minute out where you lose all of the past and all you're thinking about is the absolute present moment and the next thing that you have to do. But you're saying one minute out meaning about to go into combat. Yep. Because you're not worried about your checkbook then either. It's just that it's a narrowing but an expansion at the same time.

You're narrowing your focus but I'm expanding the amount of information that I can process. So it's almost like an altered state. Like you're reaching like a very high level of concentration, almost like akin to like a deep, deep meditation. Yeah. I don't know shit about deep, deep meditation. But yeah, it's definitely, it's as close to, you know, one of those states that I can imagine. I mean, I love it. It makes me a better person in ways that make no sense.

Like it gives me more patience around my kids. It gives me more patience dealing with idiots. You know what I mean? And I don't know why. Just those few seconds or moments provide that for me, but it does. It makes sense. It balances it out. It makes sense.

It gives you this unbelievably extreme experience. So it's like it drains your need for that. I felt like that the first time I did a stick fight

and like stick fight. Yeah, because I don't think it's unique to the jump. I think everybody, I think when you start, because don't get me wrong, like when I'm standing

on the edge, like every alarm bell in my body is like, you're an idiot. You're an idiot. You're an idiot. Your heart's... How'd you get here? You're on the cliff. every alarm bell in my body is like you're an idiot you're an idiot you're an idiot your heart's how'd you get here you're on the quip oh yeah you're trying to be all tough and talk right you're like hey are you ready to go like you're spitting sawdust but i

think if you spit and sawdust so for me right that that's the point where i have that experience but like you're saying tate it could be it could stick fighting. That's why to me, like you guys are fucking crazy to go in the octagon. Like no way. Like maybe you guys get that when you're getting ready to square off with a dude in the octagon. I think that there's something in who we are as human beings that wants us to search for that. But everybody finds it in their own way. Yeah. There's something about human beings that wants you to run from comfort and

that you, you learn from about yourself, right? Cause some are cleaved comfort. Well, the ones that are interesting, right? The interesting ones,

the really interesting ones to me are the ones that they, they seek out these difficult moments. The guys I know that have seen combat like you to that degree, that, that kind of a soldier that fight are all like, they have to get worked up. Like Tim Kennedy. Yeah, like Tim and Brian Stanton, both guys that have talked like that about it,

that they have to get worked up. They're too calm before they go into that experience. They need to get jazzed up because they're so used to like a higher, a heightened sense of consequence. Well, let's be honest too. I mean, like there's some great attributes that come from operating in a high risk, high threat environment with high consequences. But it also changes you as a human being too.

Like it grays you in areas that maybe – like empathy for me is one I struggle with. Like maybe what you were talking about before about Guantanamo Bay, about these radicals coming out. You got to kill them. For me – Like pragmatically, right? And I shit you not, it would be as easy for me as to say that is to pick up a gun and blow a dude's head off right there if he was one of them. No problem. And go fucking sleep like a baby.

Not a problem. But, you know, there's issues that can arise from that too. And I recognize some of it in myself. Like, for me, I struggle with empathy. Like, you know, my kids will fall down and they'll hurt themselves. And I'm just like, just like, and I don't verbalize it, but I'm like, God, just get up. You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be my kids. It's like, I don't have a lot of tolerance or empathy for people who are in pain because the reality is it's just fucking get up and get on with what you got going on. You know

what I mean? That's, that's what's ingrained in who I am. Well, it's your spectrum is different than theirs. That's what I'm saying. But my spectrum is different now. You know what I mean? So, and that impacts your ways. And that's going to be like that, I think, for me for the rest of my life. And it's interesting. It's like a hiccup that I recognize sometimes, and then most of the time I'm completely oblivious to it. So there's some great things that came from being in that environment. And then there's some just odd quirks that you've got to deal with, too. I mean, there's two sides to every coin.

The empathy aspect of it completely makes sense because if you're used to operating in extreme tolerances tolerating extreme weather conditions danger violence loss of friends injuries all all the above and then you see someone who just twist their ankle they're crying like a bitch yeah you know i mean we all seen your friend blow up And then somebody falls Like yeah But we all have seen I mean To a much much lesser extent People who train In Jiu Jitsu

Or Martial Arts And they're used to getting banged up You know your injuries You have a different perception of them Like I've talked to people They go well how many surgeries you had I'm like oh fuck You know three knees

Nose this Then you start going through They're like why do you keep doing it Why would you keep doing it Like Well you just get it fixed and people's stopping points become different

you get it fixed and you move on you're talking about exactly the same mechanism it's a rewiring once you get once you get to that point

where you know like everybody's like hey you should stop and you start driving on like things start getting rewired right you know and I don't know man

humans adapt right oh yeah they fucking adapt in the craziest ways. Well, and you've got to push yourself into that. You've got to put yourself into the pressure. All right, fine. I'll have one, too.

Tate's on number five. He just cracked number five. Hey, eat some dicks, man. I'm in America. We're not in Iraq anymore. I can fucking do what I want. Do you have a bag? Do you think in Iraq you've got a bag of them over there?

Yeah, I mean, we've got 30 more. That's no problem, you guys. No, I was talking about the bag of dicks. Do you have a bag of dicks? They sell them at Saks now. Where do you... The dicks. What do you...

What is... I've been meaning to ask you this. This stuff's delicious, but what the fuck is going on in there? What does nitro mean? Nitrogen? Yeah, it's infused in nitrogen. Our roaster, David Sertainertain over at Via Miriam and Caveman Coffee warehouse

he made a mechanism he and another engineer friend of ours that came in, Joe and they infuse nitrogen into the canning process and so there's gas there's gaseous nitrogen that's in here that causes little bubbles kind of like a Guinness-like effect

and I don't know the science behind it, of how it all works, but it can only be canned. It can't be bottled in the same degree to that to where we want to get it. And I think those little bubbles get you a little high off caffeine better. Yeah? Is there any science behind that, or is it just guesswork? I don't know. That's guesswork.

That's my own science. It's scientific. It tastes good. It tastes great. And I'll tell you what, it gets you fucking jacked. I throw one of these down before I hit the gym. Here is own science. It's scientific. It tastes good. It tastes great. And I'll tell you what, it gets you fucking jacked. I throw one of these down before I hit the gym. Here is some science. I think David was telling me, I could be wrong on this, but I think he said there's three times the caffeine of a Red Bull. Which should be enough to stop your heart. Is that fucking true?

How is that possible? That would kill you, man. It would kill you. What's the numbers? Stop it. You know what? What are the numbers in this little can? I mean, how many milligrams or Xs of your weed brownie do you have?

I mean, that would kill you. Listen, I'm a moderate. Kill some people. Kill some people, Joe. The weak ones. When it comes to weed, edible weed, I'm a moderate. I'm a moderate. You need to talk to Joey Diaz.

He's a radical. I'm a moderate. He almost killed his Diaz. He's a radical. I'm a moderate. He almost killed his poor guy. That's what I'm saying. Lee Syatt tried to hang with him and I was like you've become retarded. No, not just even tried to hang with him. Joey mixes up the edibles. He'll take a 500 milligram one, pull it out of the wrapper,

put it in a 200 milligram one and tie it up and hand it to him. So he's more than double dosing him. Oh yeah. He does it all the time. Joey's what you would call a chemical professional. I kind of support that behavior though. That hand it to him. So he's more than double dosing him. Oh, yeah. He does it all the time. I kind of support that behavior, though. That sounds awesome to me. That's right in my wheelhouse.

Wait, tell me before we get off wingsuits, man. How did you go from being a hobbyist and kind of a professional training guy to how to get in wingsuits? Let him ask that, but before we forget about this. How many milligrams are we talking about in this? I don't know. Because isn't a Red Bull

like 200 fucking milligrams? I think Red Bull is equivalent to like three cups of coffee. I'll see if David will hit me up right now. Yeah, yeah. See if he, has this been tested?

We'll test it. Hey, we're doing it right now, Joe. Well, I mean like, like a laboratory. I don't think we're called that. It's been tested for a lot of different things. Like rabies.

A very scientific study going down. Herpes. Gangrene? I think we should probably find out. I want to know where you went into an altruistic idea of going, I want to help these guys in the Navy SEAL Foundation, and where that whole idea came from.

And you're like, I want to still serve, and how can I serve? Because the reason you're not is you're medically discharged, right? I was medically retired. How do I keep being a soldier in this way? How did you get medically retired? So I was in for one month shy of 17 years, so 16 years and 11 months. I figure the govy can spot me 30 days, so I just say 17 years. But it's bumps and bruises along the way.

A bunch of combat deployments, blown up a few times, close to breaching charges, helicopter crashes, vehicle crashes. I got shot in the hip in 2005. So it's like a succotash of injuries that add up. You know, ounces become pounds, become you're done. You can't do it anymore. So I got medically retired. And this actually ties into the question that Tate asked me. I got medically retired.

And when I first got out, I got out the last day of June, 2013. And I remember driving off the base and I was like, awesome. You know, all I ever wanted to do since I was a little kid is be a SEAL since I was 11. Can't articulate why. It's just what I knew I wanted to do. And so I left. I'm like, this is, this is awesome. I got to do, I got to prove myself. I got to experience pre 9-11. I got to experience wartime, which a lot of guys hang their hat way too much on the combat stuff because it's really a matter of timing. The guys after Vietnam, before 9-11, got nothing. It doesn't mean they're not good SEALs or good soldiers. And I felt like we had accomplished a lot.

Like I was saying, we had very black and white metrics for success. Did we get the guy? Did we not get the guy? So you can kind of rack and stack the stuff that you did throughout your career. I was like, cool. Didn't pay attention to a whole lot of stuff for like six months and then started watching the news after six months. And it's just it's like every story that I hear about ISIS taking back Ramadi starts in northern Iraq and then they take back Ramadi. It's like, fuck, you know, it's I equate it to watching the tide go out.

It's just a little bit of the time. But the problem for me is that that tide that's eroding is the literal blood, sweat and tears of people that I was with and people that I still know that are overseas. And even though I'm out of the military now, like I'm never going to lose that desire to fight. Like I, you know, I want to go over there and kill those people. I do. I think about it every day. Every day I wish I could go over there and just canoe somebody's head for threatening our country and what we stand for. People can hate me for that if they want to.

I don't give a shit. That's what I stand for. It's who I am. Well, you're very open about it. Not a lot of people express it in such an honest and open way. What kind of repercussions have you had from talking about it like that? To my face, nothing. Of course.

On the intranet, people go, they'll lose their shit. I'll get filleted in the comments. Oh, yeah. Well, right now, I'm sure if we opened up Twitter, it would probably be a fucking bloodbath. But here's the thing, though. But it's nonsense. I think it is nonsense, man, because how can you know to put yourself in one of the— Every guy that I know, man, and I've had the pleasure to know a few guys that are in spec ops in that way,

there's not anybody that hasn't seen shit that's so horrific and that is like, there's people that need to get erased. And I'm with that thinking, man. And God bless you. I think I'm open with it because I finally came to the conclusion that I don't have any time in my life to be anything other than myself. And the one thing that I do know about myself is I know what I believe in. And I believe in it enough to fight for it. And I believe in it enough to die for it.

And I certainly believe in it enough to end other people's life for it. And I don't care if people like that or not. But that's me. I would love to see you have a conversation because you're so intelligent and articulate. I would love to see you have a conversation with a hardcore pacifist. I could turn a pacifist into a violent person very easy. I just put a gun to their kid's head. They're not a pacifist anymore.

I've seen plenty of pacifists who fight for their life. There's a lot of hippies that talk all that peace shit until somebody scuffs their toes. Well, it's the idea, I think, what we're moving towards as a race. I think we're moving away from being cavemen to moving to some higher ideals, which, like we were talking about today, is the safest time pretty much ever in human history. Yeah. It's about as safe as it can get. More people than ever before, but the likelihood of you experiencing violence is probably lower

than ever before. It still exists, of course, but there's less of it. Statistically, it's almost obsolete. But don't you feel that people still need to feel accountable? It's like the only dickheads. If you find a real dickhead that's over 30 years old, that guy's never been punched in the mouth. Most likely, yeah.

At a certain point, people got to find their accountability, and it takes sometimes for some dudes, they just need to get X'd out. Well, there's a lot of people that don't they've never experienced any kind of violence or any kind of conflict and because of that they're really flippant about with their words and then they get in front of the computer screen and that's

the thing like go ahead. I saw a guy take a picture of Rashad Evans rather you know Rashad there's a famous photo of Rashad when he was knocked out by Liotta Machida. And this guy handed him this photo with a big smile on his face and asked him to sign it. It's like one of the most painful moments of Rashad's career. And, you know, this guy's standing right in front of Rashad.

And Rashad grabbed the picture and crumpled it up right in his face. And like looking at him like, dude, what the fuck are you doing? I would smash that dude out. Well, he couldn't. I know that. I mean, if I'm standing with Rashad, I would find him. But you know what I'm saying? But you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. God help you. But here's a guy that like- You just put that in the revenge category. Come on, Tate. But he knows that he's going to get away with this. Like, this is a guy that doesn't respect what he's standing in front of. Like, you're petting a fucking lion.

Yeah. Like, you just smacked a lion in the face. You just did something to a professional fighter at the highest caliber. I mean, he's a former world champion, and you're standing in front of him, mocking him with one of his most devastating defeats. And that comes from not experiencing conflict,

not being punched in the face. Well, because you can't punch somebody in the face. Right, exactly. But Joe, everybody's unique. They know they have a free ride. You're special. Everybody's special. I want a participation trophy just for this conversation.

You will get one. Can I get one? We will all three of us get an equal participation trophy. We're drinking one right now, motherfucker. Well, you and I have talked about this, Tate, that one of the things that we appreciate about guys who have trained and guys who have competed even more so is that there's outliers, there's douchebags, but for the most part, pretty respectful. People are pretty cool. Yeah, I mean, fun and competitive.

Yeah, there's a lot of hobbyists, maybe. You'll find a few dickheads in there. A few. But guys that are competitors, man, fuck, that's rare. I don't, you know, it doesn't come up. Because you have to face your demons in order to get better. And you can't pretend. You can't pretend.

And you know what it is. You know what it is to have laid yourself all out there and not come up rich on the day. You know what it is. How many dickhead black belts in jujitsu have you met? God damn, it's not even 1%. Yeah, no. It's not even 1%. And here's the thing, though. Now more and more, there's more people that arehead black belts in jujitsu have you met? God damn, it's not even 1%. Yeah, no. It's not even 1%.

And here's the thing, though. Now more and more, there's more people that are becoming black belts that shouldn't be probably now. Maybe that. There's a lot of people that I really don't like that are out there that get black belts and they've never competed. This idea that everybody, if you stick around long enough, will get a black belt. Well, no. Fuck that. You don't deserve a fucking black belt.

There's a lot of people that don't deserve fucking black belts, man. That's a fact. You know what I mean? And you don't carry yourself like that. I don't even care if you're the best guy on the mat. You still don't deserve it

if you don't carry yourself well in life. Or if you injure people intentionally. There's a ton of things, right? Especially if you injure blue belts. You talk about it in training,

like rolling against, yeah. There's always a guy in every school that will injure people and people will avoid them. Get away from that guy. I value jiu-jitsu so much that I feel like if you're not carrying that well and representing that well, and you're a bully in the street or you're this or you're that, you need to walk right, man.

That's an honorable thing. That's on us. It's on all of us. You need to carry your fucking shoulders. And if you're not, then that's a problem for me. You know what, though? Like you're saying, the guy who wanted him to sign a photo at one of his worst moments, the guy asking him to sign that photo, had he taken the effort and the thought and put

the work in and of himself become one of the black belts that you're talking about, the less than 1%, he never would have asked him to do it. There's something in that exploration of who you are that brings something out. And I think it, I don't know it it drives me insane like my sons will have visceral physical experiences they will push themselves they will be competitors i'm not going to shy away from that they're not going to get a participation medal right they're going to get told when their performance was sub par because that's the way the world is and i don't want them being being that dude like, hey, here, Joe, you just got knocked out. Can you sign that picture?

Yeah, how about when you get out of school and you find out that participating doesn't matter or in that way? And I think that's the difference, though, too, with being a, and to say it in a different way, a participant versus a spectator. Like there's people that are about it and are about shining their life up into a whole different way, don't want to have a common experience and all that stuff. And they're pushing themselves towards that end. And then there's people that are just spectators. And fuck you. Like, that's why.

But they wear the t-shirt, though, Tate. They have the same shirt on you, dude. All that fan shit. People be like, oh, no. People fight for the fans and this and that. I'm like, you don't have any fucking idea. That makes me angry when people say that you should fight for the fans. It's so stupid like you don't have any fucking idea that makes me angry when people say that you should fight for the fans because you're not gonna fight smart and

fighting for the fans to put on a show is how you get fucking brain damage and they don't care anyway the fickle fucks no they don't care they'll well they'll forget about you if you have a poor performance in your next fight if you get knocked out the next fight that defines you right how could you even do that how could you even get in there in the mindset of i going to get into a fight with... There's a lot of guys who have. There's a lot of guys who have. There's guys that demanded stand-up fights because they're like, that's more exciting so they weren't very good at striking. But when I was fighting

at that time, that was a huge thing. When guys weren't very well-rounded, they were really great wrestlers, they wanted to show off their striking skills, whether they were there or not, and they put themselves in bad predicaments. I have a friend who I love dearly, a great guy, who was talking about, he's a fighter, and he made some crazy post about, like, fuck technical striking. Like, just get out there and bang.

And I was like, Jesus Christ, dude. Like, what are you talking about? He might get out there and bang Ludwig, like, to have that kind of technical, yeah, like, you want to be a high-level striker, like, bang. I think he was frustrated. He was at a low point in his life when he said that. But that's not an option if you're fighting an Anderson Silva or, you know, a Gokhan Saki. Those guys hope that happens.

Yeah, they hope you get crazy and come out and just move. Yeah, they're going to slice and dice you to pieces, aren't they? Yeah. You think you can do that to Floyd Mayweather? You think no one's tried? Right. Like, of course they've tried. When I put one on him, it's going to everybody else failed trying to put that one two people have

even hit him and his whole fucking career you know i mean but this idea that you should do that and risk yourself and and bang it out to like be more exciting you're only being exciting to fools who don't understand what it is it's like saying forget about all you know all the build-up to You know figure out you know it is figure out a song that has like a build-up like Freebird forget all that build-up just go right into that guitar solo or forget about all the Up into the chorus. Yeah, but get all the parts of Rambo that set up the fact that he's angry Right, let's just have a two-hour movie of Rambo with one side of his lip up. Just fucking...

That's the whole movie. No, it doesn't work that way. There's wild, crazy moments in fights where guys decide to open up. But they decide to open up. It should be a calculated risk fueled by emotion. I mean, the best example of that

that I remember seeing live is when we went and it was the first time I saw Anderson fight live and he fought Chris Lieben. And Chris is a savage and he's great. He's got good boxing. He's powerful. He's all that stuff. And he was so outclassed that he almost knocked himself out.

Anderson had such great footwork and he was so fluid that he would fall down like six times without Anderson touching him. It was just like he'd load up down like six times without Anderson touching him. It was just like he'd load up for a punch and then Anderson wasn't there. And then Chris is catching himself on the fence. And I was like, this is next level stuff. Well, that was a perfect example of the two opposite ends. Right, right. Like one guy who's just hard ass, powerful, just tough, goes after it every time, face first, and the other guy who's a master.

A master. He's just a master. And a master of that moment, too. A master of staying calm in that moment and capitalizing. And Lyoto was like that. I mean, saw Lyoto move right out of the way, Tito going for a double leg,

and it's just all face in the fence. And it's like, Lyoto's not there anymore. So basically one guy's playing checkers and the other guy's playing chess. Yeah, and the reality is, with those guys, it's like there's guys's not there anymore. So basically one guy's playing checkers and the other guy's playing chess. Yeah, and the reality is with those guys, it's like there's guys out there that are better than that. Well, and that's the thing too. The reality is when Evolution, like in five years,

those guys aren't even going to be relevant anymore. They won't even be able to compete at the lower levels. And that was an elite guy. Right. It's crazy. You're going to see some guys in the UFC that have the kind of stand-up that maybe like Yadson Klai has or Giorgio Petrosian. Or maybe Keanu Reeves in The Matrix.

Like, you're going to see crazy, crazy, crazy shit. Shut up. Don't look at me like that. Shut up with your not talking. It's still the thing of, you know, this idea that you're supposed to be doing it for the fans. Well, which fans? Because the real fans are the people that actually understand and appreciate the technical

aspect of the sport. You do it for your teammates and for your coaches, and you hope that you can honor their flag. That's who you do it for. Did you see Timothy Bradley's fight this weekend? That's the answer to the wingsuit question. With Teddy Atlas? Yeah.

That's the answer to the... Sorry to interrupt you. That's okay. That was the... Yeah. I was going to tell a way more long-winded version of that, but he just said... He answered his own question. Did you see the Timothy Bradley fight this past weekend?

I didn't. Teddy Atlas is his coach now. Teddy Atlas came out of retirement for Timothy Bradley, and Timothy Bradley put on the best performance of his career. And Teddy Atlas is fucking screaming at him in the corner in between rounds, like before he stopped him. And he's like, are you ready for the fire? The fire's coming.

We're firemen. We don't run away from the fire. We run towards the fire. We live in the fire. And you see Timothy Bradley's like, yes, coach, yes, coach. And he just goes out there and he just stellar performance. Best performance of Timothy Bradley's career. But it's this appreciation of the technical aspect,

being coached by a real master and teddy atlas and a guy who he really respects he's like and he was talking about it before the fight like no cell phones in the gym no no music no nothing put all that shit aside there's no one in there it's just him and teddy atlas and they showed them working just those two yep yeah just working just working minutes working and you know also you know sparring partners and all that stuff too but like when when they're there working, there's no bullshit. Right. Showing pictures.

Play this. Oh, nice. Because this is fucking intense. This is fucking intense. The fire's coming. Are you ready for the fire? We're firemen. We are firemen.

Got it, coach. The heat doesn't bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. Yeah, let's go. It tells us that we're ready. We're at home. We're where we're supposed to be.

Flames don't intimidate us. What do we do? We control the place. We control them. We move the place where we want to. And then we extinguish them. I want to go beat someone's ass right now. And then we extinguish them.

I got fucking goosebumps. What's going on? Holy shit. That's like Coach, man. Greg Jackson was like that. We get comfortable where other men are uncomfortable. You got to make that discomfort your living room. But he takes it on another level.

He's fucking screaming and he's got that scar across his face where he's been bottled. But he's getting a reaction he's looking for. Like it's an effective. Yeah. He's firing that dude up. Before you jump and you're explaining like, what do you think? Like, I was talking with Brendan, with Brendan Gibson about it. And, like, the idea of to throw all caution to the wind and let your training take over and get into that place. Because you see guys fight too cautiously.

And when a guy walks out savagely, like, and you see that, like, with Evander Lee Silva never had a problem doing that. Right. And you see that with Evander Le Silva never had a problem doing that. And what do you think, to throw yourself into that experience without being thoughtful of it, does training take over and take care of you? It depends on who you're fighting, too. Some guys you can do that to and some guys you can't. How about Vandele versus Krokop? It didn't work.

You can't do that. Krokop was just such a much better Technical striker And Vanderlei was jacked Yeah He was like 218 Just He was 99% Mexican supplements Going in there He was barely a human

Mexican supplements He's coming there Guns blazing It just didn't work You know he's not a Mexican He's Brazilian That's where you get that shit though Mexico bro

You get it from Mexico What do you think when you jump? I mean You might be underwhelmed sometime, not a lot. But I think it's a different thing because the only opponent is your nerves and your mind and worried about the fear. I was wondering if it translated to other avenues of that kind of flow.

I think fighting is like the technical aspects of fighting are so unique in that you have all these choices of how to engage, what to do, what you can find. And then you have to, you got to shuffle those based off of what you're seeing. You're making micro decisions all the time. And you guys are unpredictable and diverse.

You wonder why I think you guys are nuts. I tell you, man, I think, I don't know. To me, I think every little boy out there is like, man, it would be dope to be a Navy SEAL or whatever or all that kind of stuff, man. I mean, I got such admiration for you, dude. For sure. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's one of the most difficult and dangerous things a human being can choose to do. And I get offended a little bit when you go, oh, no, what you guys, it's like, I don't understand at all what you guys go through and the positions that you've been in, the kind of consequences that are there, your brother's lives in your hands, and fucking God bless you, man.

I think Andy might be a little humble. It's a different thing, man. It might be a little humility here. Tate, don't be so sensitive, all right? Don't get a little offended. Either get a lot offended or don't get offended, all right? It's just there's no comparison. Being sensitive is a part of it, though, right?

Sure. It's like the emotions and the whole thing. It's an interesting life to lead. Yeah. But the most important question of today is how do I get you out of an airplane? It's not happening. Not interested. Like, there's actually no way.

You know what I feel? I'll do it. I've done a lot of shit already. I'll go. I'll watch. I'll cheer you. I'll go. I'll wait on the ground with champagne.

Because I feel like it's like going swimming with the guys that are the best watermen in the world. It's kind of like, nobody better to save me than Andy Stumpf. I'll put you in the harness backwards. You're too excited about it after you told me that everybody who invented those fucking things is dead. I didn't say I'm going to take you for a wingsuit, Joe. I'm not going on a wingsuit. That's out of your mind.

That's where it's going. Listen. You don't know me. I'm retarded. We'll walk hand in hand together. I'll put you backwards in the harness. Here we go. That's me too.

Let that shit go. Let that shit go. I don't like this because you can't see your ass at all in this. By the way, that Kill Cliff stuff, that stuff is fucking delicious. Is that all sponsored or created by military people? Who's the former SEAL? Who's the founder and then the president? I don't know how they're sending it to me, but they've been sending that to me forever.

People send me shit. I don't even know how they get it to me, but they've been sending that to me forever. People send me shit. I don't even know how they get my address, but I get that. That stuff is good. I mean, that shit's fun right there. So they're sponsoring you. This is a Kill Cliff. So this was all based around, I never answered Tate's question. So the footage, the first jump you watched, that was all based as a fundraiser.

He actually was talking with you about it, i think on like 705 or something like that he's like hey you want to jump out of play and you're like fuck that guy exactly so uh kill cliff they're my sponsor for jumping and they have a commitment to the navy seal foundation of 250 thousand dollars a year to try to give back to the guys you know and when tate asked me like how did i come up with the idea of doing something to raise money, it all comes to the fact that, like, I can't get rid of, like I was telling you about, my desire to go fight and do and continue to stay involved, but I can't physically do it anymore.

So the only thing I could think of to do was to do something to try to help the guys who are doing it. And this is what I'd normally do. So I just tried to tie the two together. What are the injuries that keep you from doing like how you seem like so fit you're doing on this video showing you doing all these chin ups and rowing and all this crazy shit. So I can't feel my left leg from the kneecap down. I have from where you got hit.

I got so the round missed my femur, but what an experience. They don't know if it clipped the sciatic nerve or, you know, have you ever seen the gelatin that gets shot by a bullet and has the shock waves? Either way, it short-circuited the electrical circuitry down my leg. So from the point of impact all the way down to my foot, it was just completely fried. I had drop foot for a year. What's drop foot? Can't pick your foot up. I could always dorsiflex.

I could always push my foot down, but I couldn't lift my foot up. So I had to, like, have a little plastic brace underneath my foot. Whoa. It was gnarly. And then for about six months, it felt like I dipped my leg in gasoline and lit it on fire. But yeah, this is all just promo stuff leading up to it. So basically what I can do is, I mean, I can hide it really well. It happened over 10 years ago. So I can train around it and I try to stay as physically fit as possible so I can keep doing this stuff longer so to this day that leg is still numb from the kneecap down yeah the sciatic part of the nerve when it wraps over the top it's really bizarre like you can scratch your fingernails across it and I'll get a delayed sensation but it happens like six or seven seconds later it feels super

odd and when it first happened I'd be distracted during the daytime, and then I would lay down at nighttime to try to go to sleep, and it was hell. It just felt like my leg was on fire. And, you know, I went and I got it. That's actually how I found CrossFit was rehabbing from the injury because the Navy's was like Percocet, you know, Vicodin, Ambien, something else that was blue, and I'm just like. Right. Viagra probably I'm just like. Right.

Viagra, probably that last blue one. Probably. That's what you want to do when you're all jacked up on Percocet. Have a rager. Captain Morgan, right? Then I'd go Captain Morgan. It's fun. It'd be a good experiment.

So I'd fist the bottle of Captain Morgan every night. And I'd go down the bottles. I was taking like four or five Ambien and not being able to sleep. Like that's how far – I was playing around with my own pharmaceutical buffet, if you will. For how long? About six months. They had me on anti-seizure medicine for kids, which has a secondary side effect of neuropathic pain control. But it also suppresses your central nervous system functioning. So I still remember

the day we were living in Virginia Beach and my wife asked me a very simple math question and I just was like, I couldn't do it. And so I was like, okay. And I got myself and that's, you know, I started going to the gym and just working out on my own and I weaned myself off all the stuff and had to really graduate myself off the anti-seizure stuff because you can't just stop. And why did they have you on anti-seizure stuff? Because the medicine had a secondary effect

of neuropathic pain control. So they were trying to control the burning in my leg, but there was nothing that could really target it directly. So it was for kids. But if I had just stopped cold turkey, it would have drastically increased my likelihood of just having a seizure, even though I'm not susceptible to do it.

So it took me about another six. It was gnarly. I can't imagine the shit my wife put up with. I would literally drink all night and just play Pez dispenser with the variety of colors that would come at me. Couldn't sleep. Sleep during the daytime. I mean, it was a mess. And what were you doing when you were up? Surfing the intranet.

I mean, I don't even remember. I was just loaded. And there wasn't a lot of mechanisms for support back then. It was 2005. It was a little bit earlier than the medical systems that are in place now. I mean, I still have never had a surgery. I've never had stitches. They left everything in.

And some of it works its way out over time. They flew me to Germany. You mean like fragments? Yeah. I got about 300 pieces of frag in my left leg. And then the round is still in my pelvis. It was gnarly. Is there a reason to leave it in there?

So because there's retained ferrous metal in my body, they can't really image me with the magnets to get a precise location so they gave me the option when i was in the hospital in baghdad they're like hey you know we can try to take it out i'm like okay please describe to me tell me more what does this process look like they're like okay tube down your throat knock you out flip you over on your stomach two-dimensional x-ray start cutting in through your ass, pulling apart, looking for the frack. You can stop right there. That's good for me. Yeah.

So I was like. Made a good choice, Andy. Yeah. I'm like, can you please describe to me the possible consequences of leaving it in? He's like, oh yeah, well, the body will encapsulate it in calcium. And as long as you don't have bone contact with the metal, you should be fine. I'm like, well, fuck man. Why didn't you leave with that?

That sounds awesome. That seems like nothing. So in comparison. There's a hard spot in my ass. Fuck. So anybody who you lead with that? That sounds awesome. That seems like nothing. In comparison, there's a hard spot in my ass. Fuck. Anybody who's complaining about that, let me tell you about what I've been fucking been through. Reorganize my ass. Is there a golf

ball in your ass? So I left it. Yes and no. I left it, flew to Germany, stayed in the hospital in Germany for two days, checked myself out of the hospital, took a taxi to the airport, flew home, and was home like 48 hours after it happened. Whoa. And my squadron was still forward deployed, so I was kind of on a little bit of an island by myself.

Not by any malicious intent of anybody, but I was just, they're like, I mean, that was the Navy's thing. They're like, here, this is the solution to your problem. Here's some pills. Go work it out. Oh, yeah. Go figure it out. Yeah. What can they do?

Other than that, you would have to be like a project. They would have to have a bunch of people trying to help you. Like I said, it was early. I think now they probably have a protocol maybe specifically for neuropathic pain control that they've learned over the decade that we've been fighting. Like look at amputations, right? You never used to survive a single, let alone a double amputation. But now medical advances are so far down the road that triple and quad amputees are actually surviving, which would never make it off the battlefield.

So maybe they have something now that would help, but that was it. So I basically started working out and would exhaust myself, and that's how I would sleep, and that's how I found CrossFit and got introduced to the founder because they were founded in my hometown. So with nerve damage, there's like a tiny amount of improvement that you get. One millimeter a day. Yeah. That's that drop foot coming back, right? That's why it takes that so long.

It takes that long. And the doctors, guys who had gone for multiples of the number of years of school that I have under my belt would be like, eh, I don't know. Maybe. That's the answers that I would get. I'm like, hey, man, am I going to be able to walk again? And they'd be like, perhaps. It's a practice, I would get. I'm like, Hey man, am I going to be able to walk again? And they'd be like, perhaps it's a, it's a practice, not a science. Wow. Now is your drop foot cleared?

It's better. I can hide it. Like if, uh, it's funny, like if I wear more like a dressy shoe, you can hear my left foot hitting a little bit more, but what really gets me and what was one of the biggest things for my military retirement is that I have a really hard time controlling a roll of the ankle to the outside. And the majority of the time when we're overseas, I'm heavy. I'm like body weight plus 80 to 120 pounds on my back.

Right. So you get that off kilter at all. And I've snapped my ankle over so many times, almost to the point where I almost called a medevac in. It was just like purple and the size of a grapefruit. I just couldn't do it anymore. You know, people have like an abstract idea of what it's like to do what you guys do with a heavy pack on. If you never wore a pack,

I work out with a 40-pound weight vest sometimes, and I can't wait to get that fucking thing off. It doesn't weigh any of that. Triple that and go for a five-kilometer walk. That sucks. It's ergonomic, right? Those weight vests are to your body. Not something extended off. You're off balance. Now hide around a corner

and think about, I'm going to access an enemy or fuck. With a heavy ass fucking pack on it. I mean, when we packed that elk out that's out there in the hallway, I had that on my back. I probably had like 160, 170 pounds in it, but I only had to walk a half a mile. Which, that weight at a half a mile

will destroy you. And I was exhausted. And I'm like, well, these motherfuckers are going five kilometers a day with more than that on their back to get to work. And getting shot at. Did they build you up? Like, my friend Cam, Cam Haynes, he

to prepare for elk hunting, he takes a rock. He has this 135 pound rock and he puts it in a backpack. He straps himself in, and he goes up mountains with it. And he's got a particular rock. I've seen his Instagram, and he's like, yeah, I got the rock today. Yeah, it's his rock. And what's its name?

He's got to have a name for it. He probably does. Yeah. He probably won't tell you. I don't know. It's probably some curse word. You're on your own. You're on your own to train for us.

There's guys who do the triathlete route. There's guys who do the Arnold route. There's guys who did the CrossFit route, the functional. Like, it's everything in between. They just put that pack on you and send you out. Now, are these, like, do they have, like, load lifters? Are they, like, packs? It's all on the harness.

I mean, so I had a, I basically made my own because I had all my special things that I wanted to take with me. And they would only fit in, like, the Vietnam. What's a special thing? They have missiles that I showed you the video. Oh my god, did I send you that video? No. What video is this? It's awesome, man. These are my special things.

There's these assholes that have come and attacked the base, and then they go out just far enough where they know a rifle round won't get to them. You texted me that. Yeah. Those are the things that I... What are those called? Javelin missiles. A javelin missile missile and so you found boxes of those right so wellburn was telling me something yeah so i went over there and i went to the school to fire those things when i was on the east coast and forgot about it and we got to afghanistan in 2010 and i'm looking around i'm like

those are javelin missiles son of a bitch i need to find a launching mechanism for those things so i went to an army unit and traded them straight up for a half-shell ballistic helmet. Cost $400. For the launcher, cost $50,000. We did a straight-up trade. I think I got a good head on that one. Pretty good deal. Took it back to the base and then hooked the thing up, test-fired one to make sure it was all still good to go,

and then just started carrying them in the field with me. But I had to make a backpack that would carry them because I would carry two of the Javelins, and then I'd have my.300 Win Mag on top of that too. So that was my special things that I took with me. That's rad. Jesus Christ. All right, Jamie, I just sent it to you. That is rad.

Those missiles are gnarly. And so this thing that, like, set this up. So then you're where when you're firing this and you hit that truck? The truck was, like, two and a half kilometers away on a hill. But, I mean, I think I ended up shooting like 12 or 13 of those things. They're about $150,000 pop. Money well spent. $150,000 a pop and you shot 12 of them?

You shot a million dollars worth of round plus? In an afternoon. You're welcome. Not in an afternoon. It was like an eight-month time period. Oh, was it? But, dude, they were so devastating. Because, again, we're not fighting dumb people. The idiots that will go in the street and shoot an AK-47 at a predator, they were gone like a week into the conflict.

Right. It's a mature theater of war. And they're like, oh, these guys have 5.56. They can't hit us, so we'll lob 7.62 in. So they'll stay out at like 1,500, 2,000, lob rounds in, which is basically what a 300 wind mag is, right? Because you're a hunter. It's basically a belt-fed 300 wind mag. Gnarly.

It will get your head down. Well, these missiles can go out to like three kilometers. So I would go out there, and I'd let these guys sit up in high ground positions, and they'd be overwatching our guys in the low ground. And I'd wait until they got a group of them together, and then I would just send one of these things. They're designed to hit tanks. They're anti-tank. It's got a group of them together, and then I would just send one of these things. They're designed to hit tanks. They're anti-tank. It's got a double shape charge. The first one's supposed to go through the explosion.

Look at the smile on his face when he starts describing this round. Oh, I love those things. I wish I had one at home. But you would want to shoot it. You'd want to find a target. I would, but I'd go to jail, but I still would shoot it. I think I need one of these Nuevos. Oh, I'll have one of these with you.

Do we have a bottle opener? Oh, we've got a lighter. So I'd let these guys go out there, man. And I'm not even getting to the best part of the story because it's right before it hits. That's the best part of the story. I got tired of getting shot at and having an organic weapon on me that couldn't reach them. So I started bringing them. Right.

And if you want to end a firefight, you shoot one one of these things i can't describe how loud it is great to have the freedom to do that i mean to be like they're getting at me and i can't get at them and you're like you know what here's my solution and they think they're regular army you can't get them so they're just like it's like oh what's up and you didn't you you launched this thing yeah they're like you're just beyond my reach you're're like, oh, really? And Joe, here's the best part. It has two settings. It has top attack or direct attack. So it'll go up and come straight down,

so you're not even safe hiding behind things. Or it'll go direct attack right at the guy. Regardless, the best part of it is, is about a quarter of a second before it hits, they make the O face. Right? They're doing their thing, and they go, and they're done. Best part about it.

Which is better for you, the top or the direct? Top when they're hiding behind stuff and then direct if they – You don't have a preference. How do you judge the drop? It just depends on what you – because it's a thermal camera. You're looking through the warhead after you activate it. You lock it on by making this box get smaller. It flashes crosshairs and then you pull

the trigger and it will hit whatever the crosshairs are on. So you just look at the terrain and where they're at and then send it. So it changes its trajectory. No, you have to pick. You have to pick when you shoot. So if they were hiding behind a wall or something and I didn't have a direct access to them, I would just drop it in over the top. But you can drop it right where they

are. Do you have the video? It doesn't come yet? What do you think of that beer right there? It's delicious. It's goddamn good. That's what we make that in New Mexico. That's one of my joints.

Is it? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So Joe, those were my special things. Damn, dude. But again, I did that because it was out of necessity. I was tired of getting shot at from a range I could do nothing about.

And what I found was if you shoot one of those things, they would leave us alone for the rest of the day. It's the same. It's the same theory as why would you kill a fly with a sledgehammer? So the other flies take notice, not because the sledgehammer is any more effective than any other weapon system. It truly works. So, you know, I would say an argument was made that I saved lives by using this.

Absolutely. I would think that too. And I think that what's awesome is that you had the autonomy to be able to do that, whereas if you're a regular soldier, you probably don't get choices like that. They're just like, suck it up, buddy. You'd be running that up the chain of command.

Right. For sure. I think what's interesting too is what you told me that one day at the gym when I asked you about PTSD and things like that, and that's fascinating to me. And I'd heard, I don't know who it was speaking about it, but they said

that PTSD wasn't really, they don't like it being called PTSD that it's because it's not. I hate it. I don't like the D on the end because it's not a disorder. Right. That's what this guy was saying. That it's not a disorder. That it's a thing that is going to pass by and that you can get through and that's not a death sentence. It may not pass by. It's like we were talking

about the mechanisms that change in your through and that's not not it may not pass by it's like we were talking about the mechanisms that change right in your body that it's not a disorder if you get sick and you don't get a fever that is a disorder if you get sick and you get a fever that's totally normal so if you go out and you do these things that are not necessarily considered normal or you push yourself beyond that threshold and there's a reaction that your body has, is that a disorder? I don't think so at all. I think it should be expected a time for you to adapt and be able to heal from some of this stuff. But as soon as you label it disorder, people shut down. So you think by defining it in that way that it limits how people recover from it?

Well, I think by defining it as disorder, you're completely mischaracterizing it because I think it's a natural reaction of the human body to being in some of those environments. So do you think that like the way that you used to describe it, like shell shocked, that's probably like better? I don't know if it's necessarily better. I, you know, maybe don't put a, maybe don't put a precise definition on it. Maybe just work on having a better understanding that maybe you guys are going to need some time and some more so than others, because, and I think this was tate was getting at in the special ops community i think the instance of post-traumatic stress is much

lower because we are in control of what we do like i the horrific environments that i saw some of these guys getting into like in afghanistan in 2010 was a sequential series of the most dangerous months because of ieds improvised explosive devices throughout the series of the most dangerous months because of IEDs, improvised explosive devices, throughout the history of the conflict up to that point. Vehicles were just getting vaporized. And some of these Army guys had a job of patrolling up and down Route 1, which is the main corridor in Afghanistan. And they would get in these vehicles and sit there and wait.

And maybe something would happen and maybe it wouldn't. Maybe it hit the vehicle in front of them. Maybe it hit the vehicle behind them. Maybe it would go low order and I'd just flip them over and fuck them all up. But they're sitting there. When you say they're waiting, they're waiting to be attacked. They're in the back. They're sitting there. And I can't even imagine the geometry going on in the brain of trying to just rectify that and just dealing with, they're basically waiting to be victimized. I don't like to describe it like that because I don't think that's the right term, but maybe my vocabulary is not deep enough to describe

it better, but they're sitting there waiting for an event to occur to them. They have to be reactionary. Yeah. And for us, I heard a psychologist describe it once. It's called locus of control. So the guys in the tin can, they don't have any control. They're waiting. When we go, and like I said, we have a much more structured, much more regimented target deck, much more regimented success or failure. When I go, 99.9% of the time that I've been involved in a violent event overseas, it was at my control. I initiated the violence because I'm going to come to you at the most advantageous time for me and the least advantageous time for you. It's going to be nighttime. I'm going to exploit all of the advantages that I have and I'm not going to

fight fair. Like that's the way it goes. And I control that. And so after, I mean, just imagine the difference between the two being the pit bull or the guy whose ass is in the pit bull's mouth. I mean,

like that's in my mind. And again, this is just me talking about it i think that's why there's such a huge or not a huge but a greater instance of post-traumatic stress in those units that had little to no control over what was going on right like the the instance of that one guy that was was having a bunch of uh he was diagnosed several times with ptsd been deployed and then wound up killing all those civilians. That was one of the most horrific

and one of the most popularized incidents of someone, quote-unquote, snapping. Yeah. And it's that same kind of thing, right? Like, just constantly waiting for something to happen, dealing with being attacked. With no control. And you just, you know what I mean?

Like, I mean, they were bearing 2,000 pound charges. They would flip these multi-ton. 2,000 pound charges. Yeah. So Afghanistan in 2003, we rode around in Hilux trucks with no armor whatsoever because there was no threat of an IED on the ground. And then we started doing armored Humvees. But the overmatch or the size of the charge that will destroy a Humvee is like four pounds

because it's flat. Right. So then they went to the V-shaped, right? Which the theory is it deflects it out. So those survived for a while and then they're like, well, 50 pounds didn't work. Let's try 500. 500 didn't work. Let's try 2,000.

And it flips them hundreds of feet into the air. And there's people inside of those things. I've seen it where they inverted the V. The V on the bottom ended up touching the top of the fucking truth compartment in the back and that's what those guys are riding around in not knowing if like i can't i can't express enough the respect i have the guys who did that because i couldn't do it i again i'd be back toothbrush six shooter which one's it going to be i mean i wouldn't be able to do it i'm not tuned to do that job it's it's such a crazy level of stress it's it's and that's why they snap i mean how there's got to be everybody's got a cup that's going to overflow at some point and everybody's cup is a

little bit different and some people develop mechanisms that help them lower down the amount in that cup and others don't is there any help for them while they're there? Does it, is there any counseling or any like psychological training or preparation training? I can't speak to the conventionals, but I can say it was there and available for us. So I can only hope that it was there and available for them. But do you want to admit that in front of your peers? You know what I mean? There's some stigmatisms that come with, I mean, it's, it's a very, I'd heard that too, is that like i go to say hey man i'm having some psychological stuff from here then you're unfit to lead anymore if you're in a command position because they can't put you back in because if something happens then somebody can come back and say he came and said that he wasn't so it's like you kind of take yourself

out of a job if you admit that is that not right or something like that you can depending on how far down the road it goes because obviously if you're complaining. Is that not right? Or something like that? You can, depending on how far down the road it goes. Because obviously, if you're complaining about, or not complaining about, but if you're trying to receive help for a certain level of, again, I don't want to say a problem, a certain level of issues that you're trying to deal with

at some point that impede your judgment, and they have to make the right call. Sure. But the guys who are overseas, they don't want to get, like, one of the things that irritated me the most about getting hurt is because I got pulled out of the fight.

I wasn't I wasn't done. Like I said, like to this day, Joe, if I could go get on an airplane and go overseas and affect some difference by going getting back on target, I would do it. You know, almost everyone who does what you do says that. That's my friend Jody Middick. He lost both his legs from the knees down. He's a Canadian Special Forces sniper. And he's like, I love soldiering. He's like, I love soldiering.

He's like, I would love to get back in there and soldier more if I could. And I don't know why. I can't articulate that. But just like I can't articulate I wanted to be a SEAL since I was 11. You know, I don't. It's just it's something in me and the people that I worked with that that's just the way that it is. Is it just because it's life turned up to 10, the consequences are so high? I don't think so. I don't think so. For me, I mean, to be honest with you, I don't enjoy operating and living in environments where you're constantly at risk of losing your life,

which is why I enjoyed being in control, right? Like knew where we were going, good intelligence, was able to make a plan. We were going to execute our plan on somebody who didn't know we were coming, right? So in control. I mean, dude, firefights can be scary as all hell, especially if you start talking about indoors, close proximity. I don't enjoy living in that environment. That sucks. I mean, yeah, there's terrifying stuff that happens.

It's so funny. You'll have an absolutely terrifying moment, and then the funniest thing you've ever seen in your goddamn life happens all in the span of 60 seconds. Like what? Like dudes making entry in a room that they use for a bathroom so they slip and slide and fall in human shit and they come out dry heaving and i'm just i'm leaning up against a wall crying because i'm laughing sorry because they they go in there like a badass and they come out they're just like and it happens in the span of 60 seconds. And you're like, what is going on? Wow. Yeah, it's so hard to describe.

Is that, in a sense, similar to this experience that you're getting while you're doing these jumps? Because everything is so intense. Everything is so cranked up. I think I discovered my appetite for the focus and clarity while I was in the military. And I think maybe it was something that I couldn't articulate that when I was young, that I knew that I was searching for. And for whatever reason, that particular occupation called me to do that. But it definitely, that occupation definitely refined that in me. And I think I'm at a point now that if I don't have a way to find that focus, it would negatively impact my life. So yeah, I do think that there's a tie

in somehow. I don't necessarily know if it's linear. It's not necessarily the risk of life because I can feel very fulfilled without risking my life. I don't know, maybe it's the impending risk of your life that provides that focus. You know, there's a connection there somehow. I just can't articulate it, but somehow they're tied. When you express frustration and looking at what's happening right now, places that the military had taken and controlled and now has lost control of now that we've pulled out of Iraq and that we're pulling out of Afghanistan. What do you think should have been done differently? Again, you know, hindsight being 2020, I think occupation was a bad idea. You know, it's just, it's not sustainable. I mean, what's happening to us in Afghanistan is exactly what happened to the Russians.

I mean, it's really just moving the dates on a calendar until it's modern day. Well, it's crazy terrain, right? I mean, it's all— It's the Hindu Kush. And then sometimes it's desert. Like, if you get down south in Kandahar, there's places that are—they're beautiful. It's like it's desert. And there's green and there's river valleys.

And then you get up into the northeast, like, abad and jbad and konar it's i mean it's you can barely walk up like you got to be have your billy goat qual to get up those hills i mean it's it's no joke some of the most beautiful country i've ever seen in my life it just seems like an insane place to try to occupy given the fact that we know what happened with the russians yeah well again i told you what I would do if I was king for a day. That decision was so far above my pay grade. But again, we also have hindsight being 2020. I don't think that when they plan to go in there after 9-11, if you would have asked

anybody involved in the planning process if we'd still be there in 2015 going into 2016, I don't think a single one would have been like, yeah, we're still going to be there. Not just that, but it seems like we're involved in an endless quagmire. It doesn't seem like we're ever getting out of this because we've created so many enemies. And that's why I would stop and pull every single person out of there. You know what I mean? It's not going to get, it's that problem over there is not a problem that you're going to win via education, via occupation.

It's just not going to happen. Yeah. Well, what is going to happen? Is it just going to take generation after generation, many lifetimes? It's going to go back to my personal assessment. It's going to go back to being exactly what it was before we went. They, you know, it's like I said, the areas Afghanistan is a tribal society. They don't understand the democracy that we're asking them to utilize.

You know, we want them to play tennis, but we're giving them golf clubs. You know what I mean? It just doesn't make sense to them. And, you know, in Kabul, maybe it's largely successful because that's where a lot of the population is. But as soon as you start splintering out to the areas that have no connection with Kabul, like, you know, there's no way that it's sustainable. I think it's going to go back to being super tribal. I think it's so strange, too, that we go on with all these different ideas of what it is that our objectives are,

and then those objectives get muddied or changed throughout time. And so it's kind of like, I mean, just oversimplified, it's like coming into a gym and going, well, what are your goals here? Do you want self-defense? Do you want weight loss? And it's like those goals become like this malleable thing that you're like, so now we're nowhere. Yeah. Don't spend too much time thinking about it too.

I don't, man. I just try to impact where I can, which is right here. Well, for us as civilians to be thinking about is one thing, but for a guy like you who risked his life over there is walking around with a numb leg. Yeah. It's got to be even, there's a much more intense connection to what's happening. There is. And again, to answer your question full circle, why did I start doing the wingsuit stuff and why did I try to set the world record?

Because I know I can't physically go over there. My number one priority would be to go over there and get back in line with the guys and do it, but I can't. I mean, that day is done for me. So the wingsuit thing, and it all comes from, like, I wake up in the morning and I watch the news. I'm like, God damn it. Like, I want to do something. And the only thing I can do now is support those guys, which was the only reason that I wanted to try to break the world record. Because who gives a shit about a wingsuit, horizontal distance traveled?

It's totally irrelevant, right? That's why I did it as a fundraiser, trying to raise money for the SEAL Foundation. They told me you were going to donate $100,000 to. That's super generous of you. I really appreciate that, Joe. And then he's pissed. It's adorable. Now, that's why I did it because I can't get rid of that mechanism of like,

you know what I mean? For me, it felt like when I did that and started going down this road of trying to give back to the community, I started feeling better again about my station and where I fit in the bigger thing. Because although it's not direct, it's indirect. And those people that I'm trying to support are directly supporting them. You know what I mean? Like that's the only way I could justify it to myself. It's substantive.

It's like, it's like when you say don't overthink and it's like, I really don't like all this stuff and all this like that is all amidst us. I can exact change in the community and where I am and the people that I love and this and like, I think that what you're, that's what, so when I met you, man, and it was just so inspiring that like the change that you can exact with what you're doing and with where it goes, because you know, like the help that's out there and that's not out there and what the navy seal foundation does for guys is invaluable because our government fails them all the way they want everybody to rah rah the soldiers until the soldiers come home man and and uh the fight that you're in is vastly more

important than than you being on the ground somewhere i think well it was one of the most disturbing things about doing these ufc fight for the troops is that we were raising money for the Intrepid Center for Excellence. NICO, the National Intrepid. So that's where they sent me when I got medically retired. Yeah. That was the best medical treatment I'd ever received in the military. Yeah, I mean, it's incredible. Have you visited it, by the way?

You should go, man. I should. It's right across the street from Walter Reed, but I will tell you this. Is that Bethesda? Yes. So it's Walter Reed directly across the street is Nyko. So if you're going to go over there, like you need to strap in for what you're going to see because that is the landing point for people who come home fucked up.

And you're going to see amputations. You're going to see dudes who are three or four days from a really traumatic event in their life. And what got me when I was there was not seeing the guys, because I was used to that. It was seeing their fucking parents. Like a father wheeling his son into Bethesda for the first time, checking him in, and he's got, like, bloody bandages on him. Like, they're hooked up to all the machines,

and you can see that the dad is just destroyed. You know what I mean? Because his son is never going to be the man that he wanted to be again. So I can't recommend to you enough that you go, but you gotta be ready. It's, it's an emotional event. Like it, it crushed me. My dad came out to visit me and it's tough, man. Like I didn't expect that either. Like I didn't expect to have that. I mean, I had to go sit down for a little bit. I was just, it just rocked me because I can only imagine what happened when my dad got the phone call that I got hurt, you know,

cause I, I get hurt. They're like morphine, two liter bottle. Here's a cell phone. Call your wife. I'm like drooling on myself. Hey honey,

I'll be home in 36 hours, you know? And then she had to call my dad, you know? And then I can only imagine what that would be based off how much I love my sons. That, Oh, that gut wrenching moment when you get the call, hey, your son's okay, but.

Goddamn. Yeah. The, what I was going to say was that the intrepid needed someone like the UFC to raise the money. Right. It was so disturbing. It's proudly funded. Yeah. How is that not taken care of by the government?

How do they have all this money to build? Did you say the Pentagon built some $43 million gas station and they can't justify why they spent so much money on it? Oh, my God. I read that, too. They can't account for it. It doesn't work. Yeah. Zero percent of the vehicles there use that type of fuel and they can't find the funding anyway.

I mean, I remember when I was a kid and it's like, you'd hear it all the time that a hammer costs $600 if you're buying and stuff like that. And it's like, man, with that kind of graft and nepotism and bullshit that goes on and then these guys are, are you kidding me right now? Well, there's so many people. I mean, that's always been the biggest issue with bureaucracy, right? There's so many different people that have their hands in the system and they're not accountable.

Like when you pay your taxes taxes you don't get a receipt totally hey Tate they they used 500 to go yeah I want I want you know most of my money to go to education I like a little bit to go to fixing the streets no you don't you don't get that option they're just like thank you and they thank you and we'll do whatever the fuck we want to do with this money we're not accountable at all so you know what you think 43 million dollars worth of theft okay? If you work for Costco and 43 million dollars is missing and II get into the fucking office, please yes I'm missing a few pieces of chicken nuggets

Would you like to explain yourself three million dollars missing a gas station? Which is supposed to cost a half a million dollars to build cost 43 million total please tell us what happened? You know fucking taxes got to go you know like no you would you'd have to be responsible you'd have to be accountable but this is just a blurb in the news it'll be replaced tomorrow by some new you know whatever so we want and but meanwhile disaster i mean that's where i think about conspiracies we'll start a new disaster so it takes your focus off that that shit happens and meanwhile nico is asking for money because they're having problems funding the organization.

And I'm telling you, it was the best. It was the single reason that I got medically retired. I didn't have enough stuff in my medical record. I went there for 30 days, had a doctor assigned to me. My exit interview was like four hours long, 150 pages from blood work to bone stuff to arthritis. I mean, it was insane. I could do chiropractics. I mean, it was insane. I could do chiropractics. I could do acupuncture, all the stuff that I'd never would have thought that I

could do. And it was all because of the benevolence of others. I mean, it's all privately funded. Yeah. Have you ever been down to San Diego and seen the SEAL training? No. You want to go down? Yeah. All right. I can take you. I've been down to, I flew with the Blue Angels once, which is off San Diego. You know, you go out.

You backseat ride? Yeah, it was awesome. I threw up. I threw up too. You know, I didn't throw up until the end though. I was so fucking disappointing myself. I kept it together until the end and then I relaxed too much and then I threw up. Yeah.

It's like I held it solid up until the end and then the end. Did they warn you before you guys start? Yeah, but just. It's the Gs, man. Yeah. At the end, it was like less at the end that I threw up than I had been through before. But I just thought it was, the hard part was pretty much over. Yeah. But then you got to be-

What's hard about it? What goes on? The stress. It's the Gs. And what got me is not in the turns. It was about six seconds after the turns. Like your inner ear is adjusting and then you're just like- No shit.

You know how when you're getting choked, you know how you're getting choked, you kind of like see the lights going dark? Sure. Well, this is a slow version of it, a slower version. Because, you know, if you get choked, if someone like has you in a rear naked, it's only like a second or two you have to tap before you're going out. But this is like three or four seconds. Yeah.

But it's like an elevator door. Like, you know, an elevator door is closing. You literally see the black on both sides. But then you hit the button. You hit Yeah, but it's like an elevator door like, you know an elevator doors closing You literally see the black on both sides and then you get the narrow strip You're like open up and it goes and then it comes back and then it's the hit a button No, you're saying the elevator doors are shutting but then they come out of it You're like hitting the open button. So it comes back out. So you're you're hooking So you're holding on to the straps and you like this You're forcing the blood in your brain. And I'm hearing the

fucking pilot. And he's doing it too. I'm like, oh shit. He's not doing it like they're getting after it. Those guys are dead because they're not wearing a G-suit. They don't wear G-suits. They can't. It'll interfere with their controls of the airplane. I want the bus driver to be fully conscious

all the time. They're all jacked. All those guys are like fucking pit bulls. Because you have to be physically strong to be able to do that. There's a lot of physicality involved in flying one of those. It's an F-18? Is that what it is? F-18 Hornet. I can't imagine because I know guys that even race track cars.

And they're just from turning and they'll be completely bruised and fucked up. They'll wear harnesses to keep themselves straight and all that. I can't imagine what an airplane that's doing 4G. Like, that's crazy. We went six and a half, and that's just because that's all my bitch ass could take. Like, those guys, they go to nine. I'm in that category, too. I was like, I would like to not do any more of those turns.

And also, where's the in-flight bag? And it's like, it would be harder for you than it is for me, because I'm only 5'8". You're like, what, 6 harder for you than it is for me because I'm only 5'8". You're like, what, 6'3"? Yeah, somewhere there. See, when you get, the taller you are, the more distance

between your heart and your brain. It's harder to get that blood up there. Short dudes like me, like all the fighter pilots are always 5'8", 5'10". So like when Top Gun happened and then everybody tried to join the Air Force or whatever it was

or the Navy to fly. Best recruiting tool for the Navy ever. Before their window was like 5'7 to 5'11 and then everybody tried to join the air force or whatever it was or the navy to fly best recruiting tool for the navy before their window was like five seven to five eleven and then they're like nope five nine and one quarter else you're not welcome because there are so many people that wanted to join and that's that's why that height is that they they want that height for that reason i thought it was the cockpit size or it's i think it's a lot of it is being able to control well obviously different planes they use different things. And some planes do use G-suits. Every plane except for the Blue Angels actually does.

Yeah. So it's easier if you wear a G-suit. But when you're jacked, those dudes, all of them are like these pit bull dudes. And because of that, they can force that blood. They can stay conscious and deal with a lot of pressure. Crazy. You know, like some Larry Bird type dude is just not going to be able to handle. He's going to go out. And what's insane is while they're dealing with that pressure,

their airplane is from me to Joe. Yeah. Like, they're looking at a single rivet on the aircraft. That's their marker, is a single rivet. So they're like, like Joe's talking about, and just, you know, formation flying, no big deal. 300 knots.

Formation flying. Formation flying. So they're like really close to each other. Really, really close. I've seen them when I was a little kid. I remember seeing them. See them come down, swoop in, and they're like, right, their wings are damn near overlapping, it looks like. I mean, visually, it's crazy.

Well, I remember, I mean, there's been many, many times where, especially like in other countries, they've done those air shows and collided with each other. And then they go into the crowd and these fireballs. Did you see the guys with the jet suits or the jet packs? I sent you that link on Twitter. I sent you too. Same night. I saw it, man. Oh, yeah.

These motherfuckers, they got jet packs and they're flying next to like a DC-10 or something. It's next level. No, it's the new Airbus. These dudes in Dubai, it's the next level shit. They got rigid wings. They're doing a formation flight with an Airbus. They have jetpacks. And how far can they fly?

I think they can fly for about 30 minutes. Whoa. They were changing positions, going around the plane. Fucking dude, it's crazy. Oh, Jamie, find that. It shouldn't be hard. That's like next level stuff. 30 minutes is a long time.

And they can go up and then they can glide. They can turn the jets off and they glide down because it's a rigid wing structure on their back. When I was in Denver... Oh, here's a guy. Oh, dude, this is crazy. So these guys are flying. How high are they? Let's take a look here. I mean, that's like airplane

height. That's lower, though. That's probably sub-10. Oh, sub-10? Okay. Now that's a guy that's looking at a picture on TV on the ground. How crazy is this? God, these guys are just flying. They have jets. Now, are they going 150, 300?

How fast are they going? They're in the hundreds. They're probably topping out at 200. Oh, my God. This is insane. Your lips are just flapping. You got a full screen on, right? Maybe yours, bro.

Maybe yours. Yours? Well, look at those big old things. Those things would be flapping like biscuits. Are you kidding me? My lips have a lot of power behind them, bro. Mm-. Yours? Well, look at those big old things. Those things would be flapping like biscuits. Are you kidding me? My lips have a lot of power behind them, bro. I heard. Whoa.

That's over that fucking bullshit man-made island area that's sinking. Dude. What could? This is nuts, man. Yeah. This is all Dubai, right? Where you could just do anything you want. You can do what you want.

The people who pay for this just walk out to the desert and pull out $100 bills. This is fucking insane. Looking at these guys with these suits on, they're essentially like human airplanes. This isn't just a jet pack. This is like comic book shit. Yeah. Fucking madness.

Totally spraying chemtrails all over the people of Dubai. Yep. Look at that. They are chemtrailing. Look at this fucking... Oh my God, they just separate. Look at that guy. What istrailing. Look at this fucking. Oh, my God. They just separate. Look at that guy. What is happening here?

Wow. That is madness. It's next level right there. Well, how long before that becomes like something we see all the time? I think it's cost prohibitive. Oh, is it? You know. But right now, right?

Six years. Skydive Dubai. That's a place you can go right now. They get two drops. Roll your Bugatti Veyron. I know what you're doing next weekend. Right into the fucking parking lot. Dude, they.

Yeah. You know the deal with Dubai. weekend. Right into the fucking parking lot. Dude, they, yeah, you know the deal with the money. The money over there is insane. Like, you've never seen so many million dollar cars in your life. Like, they're all over the place. It's amazing, like, that when you're like, oh, you know, I remember asking a long time ago, I'm like, what's it like having money like that? And you're like, it's like everything's free. And it's like, for those guys, what is that like?

Like, human life is free. Like, anything is free. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, a $10 thing, $ is that like? Like, human life is free. Like, anything is free. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, a $10 thing, $50,000 for them, it doesn't matter. It really, like, you meet those really rich guys like that. Well, those guys also, their wealth isn't public. It's not like, you know, everyone talks about the wealthiest people in the world. They're not sharing that information.

They ain't on the Forbes list. They're like, Forbes, eat dicks, dummy. You guys are bitches. You're not even kings. they're not racking and stacking like forbes you guys are bitches you're not even kings yeah yeah you wear a tie around i'm wearing leopards we have so much money we have so much money that we don't need a list you got leopard skull cod pieces have you seen my diamond encrusted ferrari it's just diamonds yeah well i remember there was a great fucking story on tv once about this chick that she ratted out the Sultan of Brunei. Probably a good idea. Yeah, a terrible idea. That's going to work out great for her in the long run.

That dude is one of my- Best snuff film ever. He's one of my all-time favorite characters in human history because what he did was he made his own disco. And he had so much fucking money. I mean, he had hundreds of Ferraris. He just just like this insane i'm not kidding hundreds and so he he made his own disco so he has a palace it's an enormous palace and he created this fucking huge elaborate disco tech where um it was all just girls that he had flown in so he'd fly these girls in he'd give them like 50 grand a week you know know, like giving them like sitcom money.

And they're all like, you know, these penthouse pets. And they're all living there. And they caught one broad with a fucking laptop. And she was like documenting it all for a tell-all book. And they'd given her hundreds of thousands of dollars in jewelry. And they took all that shit from her and kicked her out of the fucking town. And then she did all these interviews. But the dude would just come down in his golden underwear and fucking start skating around.

Like, doo-doo-doo. Who am I i fucking i'll take you come with me and the rest of them kick rocks you know tomorrow maybe you'd be lucky and get some word about some guys like that is that they they have hundreds of girls and maybe the most of them 80 of them he's not even fucking it's just like there's just here and there and whatever and they stay there and they form a little community and all these little hoes just hang out together and pal around. And this, I mean, it's just total next level shit

because- This is happening current day. Oh, yeah. Stop it. They would also pay celebrity girls extreme amounts of money. To join the harem?

To fuck. How about that? To come down and fuck. They'd fly them in. Floyd Mayweather did that with like Nicki Minaj. He's like, 50 grand to come up and talk to me for a half hour in my hotel room.

There was something like that I read before his last fight. And it's like, people will fuck you money like that. They're like, whatever, celebrity. Everybody's got their price. Yeah, but I think the amount of money that these guys have over Floyd Mayweather. Of course. It's like Floyd Mayweather over the dude who works at Starbucks. He's their busboy. It's insane. It's like Floyd Mayweather Over like the dude Who works at Starbucks He's their bus boy

It's insane Yep It's like They have trillions of dollars Yep Like we would think about Like the richest people In the world

Are worth like 90 billion dollars What is this Jamie You just pulled up It's a plane It's probably a plane The Salt and the Brunei's plane Yeah

Oh my god It's got a pool in it His plane has a pool in it Is that a pool Or is that like a I think it's a glass bottom Dude it's a pool No What is that Yeah Magic carpet The floor is a... I think it's a glass bottom. Dude, it's a pool, no?

What is that? Yeah, magic carpet. The floor is a giant screen which will show the floor. It's all fucking squirrely looking. Can you make it larger so we can see it better? That is insane. It is a floor. It's a glass floor.

I bet you it's got a camera underneath that probably projects onto the floor. Oh my God. Okay, it's a screen which will show the ground. Well, you know that they're going to do that now with planes? They're going to make the entire roof of the plane an LED screen or an LCD screen where you're going to be able to see the actual outside of the plane, like the clouds and all the terrain. Like almost like a transparent type thing?

Exactly. Seriously? Yes. It'll be a screen. And the screen will project. They've already made prototypes of these and they've shown like videos of what the planes of the future would be like.

But the entire top of the plane, like from the windows up, will all just be the actual clouds that are above the plane. I saw a buddy, he flew to, he might've flown to Dubai and they were in first class for whatever that trip was

and the whole wall of the plane was clear. It was like a huge window. And they were like like it was almost like their first class was like uh um like a living room experience it's crazy and i yeah because i was talking to kyle before he left to go fight this weekend right and i was like well what's business class like and he's like dude you lay down they come bring you a mattress and And I'm like, that sounds awesome. And I'm like, what's business class? He's describing first class better than first class in America on Qantas. I've done it.

First class on Qantas, you get an apartment. Yeah, I was like, what's first class like? Might as well be an apartment. It's like your own pod. I remember Ari posted pictures once. Yeah, Ari flew with me. It's like your own room. Not only does your chair fully recline, but it turns

left and right. And then you have two TVs. Just in case. I don't really want to have to go to the effort. I'll just make my chair. It goes like... Like Ari would come over and sit with me. Because it's like a fucking 15 hour flight. It's a ridiculously long flight. Yeah. And Ari may or may not have come on board

with some pot brownies That stunk so bad I made him throw them out I'm like What the fuck are you doing Not the country You want to mess around He's like I made it myself

Yeah that's the one place Where Sylvester Stallone Got busted for HGH Well he came in In his private jet With like Cases of the shit That homeboy

Is just fucking Mainlining They might have Overlooked a little bit But yeah If you come in with Yeah Hey man I don't

blame him. He's my canary in a coal mine. 90,000 years old. That's awesome. I was going to say 107. In that movie Grudge Match or whatever the other night. And I'm like, how do you not get behind the argument to be enhanced? Right. Like if you look

at a normal 70 year old guy and you look at Sylvester Stallone, you're like, that's better. Well, do you remember that movie that he was in, Bullet in the Head, where he was shredded? Where it's Jason Momoa's in it, right? I think so. He fights Jason Momoa, I think. 67 years old.

Just lean as all hell. Shredded. Shredded. Six-pack. Muscular. Veiny. Looks like he had some kind of surgery on his pec or something. Long time ago.

Long time ago. All his Rocky movies you see that too It's almost like he's got like a cable That connects his pec to his shoulder Why not though I mean seriously like If it's not a financial barrier to you I mean the only negative side effect of that stuff Is you immediately stop aging

You could instantly say that it's Even a cost benefit Because of all the stuff that you move aside that you're going to have health risks at anyway that you take away by being in better condition. You also have more energy to do things and enjoy things. Like the idea that like it's a manly thing. Like people are like, where do you get your testosterone from, bro? I get mine from my balls. You got to get it from a needle, bro?

No, but I mean that's like the argument. That's the argument, right? Where do you get yours from, bro? I get mine from my balls. You gotta get it from a needle, bro? No, but I mean, that's the argument, right? Where do you get yours from, bro? I get mine from my balls. I get mine from Coe's balls. Where do you get your fucking toothpaste from? I get it from the grocery store. Shut up. Give it 20 more years and see if you still got the same answer. I was just listening

to Charles Poliquin, and he talks a lot about it. Charles who? Poliquin, is it? He's a strength coach, like old school dude. Well, how about your boy, Louie? Westside Barbell? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. He's rad, dude. Also awesome. I got his fucking machine back

there, the reverse hyper. That's a game changer, that fucking machine. The sweats, like, who kind of take his gospel and spread it. Shane Sweat and Laura Phelps Sweat. Laura's the strongest woman in the world. How funny is it her last name is Sweat?

Yeah, dude. Well, it's Shane's name. And Shane is probably the best power and speed strength coach. Everybody thinks it's just power lifting. And Louie's like, that's such a misnomer. It's not what I'm about. Like, he changes the dynamics of whatever kind of athleticism you're into. If you're a cross-country athlete, if you're a swimmer,

if you're a power fighter, and it's a trip. I believe that if more MMA guys got into it, they would turn in touching boxing into fucking knockout strikes. Well, Matt Brown has done a lot of work with them. Yeah, yeah, that's who works with them all the time. Him and Shane are really good friends, and he and Louie, and then, yeah, it's an interesting thing, man. That would happen because they'd have more power behind the strike itself? Yeah, they're learning how to turn into it more

and they're learning how to accentuate their top-end power so that they can actually turn that over as opposed to moving slowly through movements and teaching explosivity. Okay. You know, I had the bigger, stronger, faster guys on. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the Bells. Mark's a good friend

he's a good great guy mark's great guy and we were just talking about the the stigma that's attached to these substances because of the idea of cheating sure you know when you look at like baseball and you look at cheating the great american pastime right you know what's going on with russia right now we're talking about they're they're literally going to pull russia out of the olympics widespread documented cheating program on the state level like they're just cheating they're like here's the protocol yeah i mean that's that's what they've always done i mean that's that's been going on from the beginning of time i mean then that's what everybody's been doing at the olympics they found out about it from the russians though the russians were the first yeah them and east

germans right yeah when germany was split up. Eastern bloc countries, yeah. I feel like that, I mean, when you started talking and you had that Novitskiy dude on here or whatever, and talking about genetically changing things and the myostatin inhibitors and all that kind of stuff, it just seems like at a certain point, if you want to have natural athletes, like say in the UFC, in 15 years, everybody in the stands is going to be in better shape and better condition than the actual athletes. Well, you know what it's going to be like? It's going to be like churning your own butter and riding a horse to work.

Yeah, you're mitigating evolution. It's like, congratulations. And the reasons that they're doing it are so foolish sounding. They just sound like children. Well, I get it. I get it because what you get out of competition, if you see a guy who has gone through an eight week training camp, he's fighting Chris Weidman versus luke rockhold both guys we would assume clean you know training their entire life getting ready for this moment the amount of discipline and

focus that's required to get through that fucking camp is a goddamn brutal it's it's soul searing you know these guys are getting up every morning with exhausted bodies and they're doing their strength and conditioning they're doing their strength and conditioning, they're doing their sparring, they're doing all their technical training, and they're fucking tired all the time, man. They get through it. And that's one of the things that Vitor and Weidman had added at the weigh-ins, where Weidman pointed a finger

at him and he goes, you were fucking using during camp because they did their blood screens and Weidman's... Vitor had a testosterone use exemption, okay, for the longest time. And his testosterone, when he was on, was off the charts. He was just jacked. Three times a human kind of shit.

1475 was the highest number that he tested for, right? During camp, while they're in camp, this is after they take his testosterone away. Okay, they say, you can't use it anymore. He tested 1200. And Weidman tested 300. So Weidman's like, what the fuck? He goes, you were using during camp. And he goes, I'm going to make you fucking pay for that tomorrow.

And he said it to the Mattaweans, and you could see the look in Vitor's eyes. He's like, there's a look that a guy has when he's guilty. The most co-junct. Agreed. The only real smart explanation for that, for against it, was when I listened to Rhonda talk about it. And she goes, they know when they're off it that they can't be. She knows. I know I'm 100% me.

Sorry, bitch. If you come in like that, you've already lost. And I was like, that is huge. Because the psychological effect, we saw it when guys came from Pride. And they came over, they would break. And you're seeing guys that are top-level savages break. And then you're like, that is a different athlete. Well, it's a different human being because you're not enhanced anymore.

And it takes your belief, though. It takes your belief. Of course. Because you know what you were capable of, these superhuman performances when you're on it. Their chin would be better. Everything would be better. Yeah, they'd hang the cape up. Yeah.

Hang the cape up. Hang up the cape. Hang up, take away the fucking, the super ring. Totally. Yeah, I mean, once you've tasted that, yeah. And I don't know what those guys were taking the- Everything. Well, the shoot box guys, though.

They'd get their hands on it. Remember when there was a thing, and it was all the shoot box guys, and they would get touched, and they would go out, and they'd be out. And then they'd get touched again, and they'd come back on. Remember when there was a thing and it was all the shoot box guys and they would get touched and they would go out and they'd be out and then they'd get touched again and they'd come back on. Yeah. And it was like,

there's something like, as soon as he hit the ground, he popped, and it was like, it was like almost an impossibility to knock him out. It was like, they're,

God knows what they were fucking doing. It was so impressive when Vanderlei got crow-copped. Yeah. Because even all that. Yeah, sorry. I mean, that was the heaviest Vanderlei

had ever been. He was like 218. Crow-cop was only 214 crow cop is actually lighter than vanderley even though crow cop had fought heavyweight his entire career and vanderley really his optimal weight was 185 and he was fighting as a heavyweight he was 183 pound champion right or the 203 pound champion yeah yeah yeah that's what it was right and uh you know gets the ufc drops down to 185 because he's not on the shit anymore but when he's fighting or allegedly but when he's fighting crow cop even after all that but we don't even know what the fuck crow cop was doing right you know that was one of the biggest strongest guys i ever wrestled with yeah like that guy is he's he's strong he's like one of those different levels job said too when he fought him he said

he couldn't believe how strong he was. Dude, he is powerful. Yeah. Well, I mean, his fucking KO power is legendary. Yeah. You know? But, again, those guys, they just had an open agreement. You can just do whatever the fuck you want. Not even an open agreement.

You better do it. Yeah, it was in the contract. Yeah. Yeah, our buddy. Yeah. Stop it. It was in the contract. In the contract, it said, we will not test for steroids.

But our buddy went over there, and he was a natural 170-pounder, and they wanted him to fight at 185. He's like, I don't even weigh 185 pounds. Yeah, totally. Don't worry. We can do a steroid. And then he's like, I don't want to. And they're like, no, this you do.

We have the doctor. Like, it's like you're not going to not do it. It's all mob shit. Hey, man, the guys at the pinnacle of their game, if they're not doing that stuff, honestly, I'm surprised. Like, I have zero problem with that whatsoever. The problem is, it wrecks your endocrine system, and after you get off of it,

you're done. I mean, these guys are on these hyperhuman levels in their 20s, and then they get off of it, and their balls don't work anymore. Dude, I see that in the teams, too. Guys, they research the ingestion portion, and they're like, okay, cool, I'm done. No post-cycle anything, and then they're just.

So what is the protocol when you're involved in that? Like, is that from the top down? Do they tell you about it? Steroid use in the military is against the UCMJ. So if guys are going down that route, they're doing it on their own underneath the radar. However, the drug testing in the military does not test for steroids. It's a very specific test.

You'd have to be picked out and pinged for that reason. So they're not, you know what I mean? It's kind of like this... A known thing? An acknowledged thing? It couldn't be known. If I know about it, how could it not be known? It was the blind eye system. Like, you know, yeah, we want you to be a lion. En be known. Right. You know what I mean? If I know about it, how could it not be known? It was the blind eye system.

Right. Like, you know, yeah, we want you to be, you know, a lion. Enhanced. So go, yeah. Right. But then the guys, you know, they don't have the education or they don't take the time to figure out the post-cycle therapy stuff. And they just go, especially the dudes who are just juicing right before deployment and

then go to the old turkey right when they get on it. Oh, daddy. Oh, yeah. It's horrible for your morale, for your energy levels, depression. I want those guys on it the whole time they're over it. Well, that's Kennedy. Tim Kennedy was saying that. He's like, it makes you a better soldier.

I am all for it. And it will. It'll make you stronger, faster, recover better. I've talked to team guys that are out now that are like, it's shit. If guys get popped for that when they're in buds, and they're like, fuck those guys. But they're like, when you go over there, I want everybody that's next to me to be as big and strong and as alert as possible. So when they go through buds, they test them for it? No.

Again, it's the same. Steroids I don't think would help in buds. I think HGH might on the recovery side of the house. What about like EPO? That would probably help. That's the blood doping, right? So it oxygenates you, makes you have more endurance. It probably would.

right yeah i don't know it makes you have more it probably would but i think it's such a psychological damaging thing like buds is from what it sounds like that i don't think that that stuff would help you i don't it's not as bad as you think you guys were talking about on the same episode they don't drown you in buds yeah i think you were saying that they drown you no they we get you as close to drowning as possible but it's not a requirement the last guy that died of buds uh aspirated on his own vomit underwater and was not recoverable. But a lot of the training mechanism. How long was that ago? Probably five years.

Oh, okay. A guy dies there probably about once every five to seven years, which is important. It needs to happen, right? Because that means you're taking the training as arduous enough that it's going to do what it's supposed to do. Guys are going to die. It's a terrible thing to have happen. So a lot of the training we do in the water is to make them uncomfortable. Like my favorite, one of the evolutions in first phase is you get these huge classes

of like 150 guys and everybody's like, teamwork, we're in this together. And you make them jump in the pool, fully clothed. And then the instructors get on the outside and you start pushing them closer and closer together. Right? So now- On the outside of the edges, you're in the pool with them. So we're making a big circle

of students smaller and smaller and smaller how deep is the water 20 feet so they're drowning each other it it doesn't start that way but the teamwork talk goes out the fucking window oh yeah because then it's like dudes like foot on top ahead and that's actually the evolution that the guy aspirated in which is why they increased the instructor ratio. They didn't notice it right away, but that's one of the highest attrition evolutions at buds is that one right there where they push everybody together. And then once they get them together, it's like, okay, take off your right boot. So then everybody's got to undo their boot and throw it out of the pool, take off your left boot. So you're like, you have a task to do while staying alive, without trying to kill somebody

else. And just that type of stuff in the water, the attrition rate is just through the roof. I would imagine. And how long are you in there for? As long as it takes. How long does it take to do what? To get, you know, you take all your top off, you take your pants off, you take your boots off, all that stuff. It can take...

Naked pool party. Well, we are wearing the UDT shorts shorts which are just completely unacceptable guys i know say they don't wear underwear that brian singer guy that guy who directed x-men he had parties like that really yeah i don't know x-men avengers which one was it whatever i don't know if these were the type of party but now what happens if guys go fuck this let's push an instructor out of here that That would be interesting. What would happen? If dudes are like, we're going to end up killing each other,

let's break the circle open. You know, I don't know. I only had a student grab me one time because one of the tests we did. I just think it would be such a horrible idea, but I'd love to see what happened. It is a horrible idea. Allow me to tell you what happened to this particular student. So one of the tests we do, you have twin 80 scuba tanks, and you have to tread water with at least your

wrist above the water for five minutes. And it's really not that hard if you can just relax and just take a deep breath and put your head down. There's a lot of buoyancy that you can work with. So you tread water, but your hands have to stay above water? Your hands have to stay, so you're just using your legs and you have a full scuba tank system on your back, which if you don't rig it properly, it'll pull you

back a little bit. A lot of it is just kind of getting your lungs over your center of gravity. Training waters without your hands is fucking hard. It's hard with hands, too. Yeah. I mean, the training is supposed to be hard. Really? From what I've been told.

I went through the correspondence course, so I don't know. Got a blue line through the mail. Gracie in action. How do we think the same? So it always starts the same way. They'll take a breath and then they're like they're keeping their hands above water and their head just keeps getting farther and farther and farther and they have to just like kick kick kick kick kick and then you

know it's about to get really bad when they do the monkey paw when their hands start doing this number they start like that's when you're the guy's about to either quit or go under uh-huh and i had a foreign exchange student i think he was from korea and they have a weight belt on too there's a 20 pound weight belt on as well of course why wouldn't there be so a lot of the times what the students will do is they'll drop their weight belt when they think they're going to go under so i as a helpful instructor will get it for them and put it around the back of their tank so they can no longer take it off so they can finish the evolution because just because you quit you're still going to finish the fucking five minutes you know i mean

like it has it has a purpose right uh and if you don't quit and you just fail we'll allow you to retry it at another date but you're going to finish the five minutes with your best attempt so i'll put the weight belt on the top of the tanks so this korean kid dropped his weight belt i'm like yeah okay no problem went down and got it put it back on uh he started going back under again. Got to the point where he pulled his own life jacket. And it inflates and brings him back up. So I helped him out.

I pulled the release valve to let all the oxygen, or not the oxygen, but the CO2 out of it. So he starts going back down again and just comes up and gets one big hand out of the water and bear hugs me. Tried to take me underwater with him. It's the only time i've ever seen an instructor actually get grabbed so i just was you it was me yeah so i just relaxed held my breath we went to the bottom until he passed out whoa so you said all right bitch let's do this i'm fine i can i'm like all right how long can you hold your breath i don't know i mean mean, nothing impressive. Probably a couple minutes. Longer than that guy could in a panic state. Right.

That's all that mattered. You know what I mean? When you're in a panic state, you got about 30 seconds in you, right? I mean, how much time do you have? I probably wasn't going to be able to do a max breath hold because I was laughing pretty hard at him. That's so fucked up. That's that whole shit about I get comfortable while other dudes are uncomfortable.

So fucked up. I live underwater, bitch. So we went down, though, and he's just looking at me like, and just goes out, and then you pull him up, and a doctor with seven years of medical school and residency under his belt goes, wake up! And then they wake up, and hey, you failed. So he blacked out under the water.

That happens all the time. We bring people up who had just— So it's not necessarily drowning. No. It's just blacked out under the water. That happens all the time. We bring people up who have just— So it's not necessarily drowning. No. It's just blacking out underwater. But there's no evolution in SEAL training that requires you to black out. Like one of the tests is a 50-meter underwater swim where you jump in, you have to do a front somersault, swim to the other side of the pool, touch it, front somersault, and swim back. That's another one that gets a lot of guys on—they'll pass out because they just don't want to give up. And again, all of this stuff is about teaching you where the boundaries, where you think they are and what other people tell you you can do.

And when the alarm systems in your body, it's a choice to listen to those things a lot of the times. A lot of Navy SEALs or various spec ops guys go into like ultra marathons and shit afterwards just to try to push themselves to the. Once you, I mean, honestly, like Joe, once you and shit afterwards just to try to push themselves to the once you i mean honestly like joe once you get addicted to it yeah but i mean you know i i would imagine that you probably i mean do you miss fighting and do things that challenge you physically and mentally to continue pushing yourself and growing i mean once you get a taste for it i would imagine you still do those things too don't you well there's a certain amount of you're always going to want to push yourself just because you if you feel like you if you're not doing it if you're not testing your boundaries

you kind of feel like a pussy i feel like it's mastery too it's like yeah you get mastery over this thing and then what happens with people that are uncommon and interesting they go on to the next thing because they want mastery over this thing and then they want mastery over that thing because it irritates them that they don't mask they're like oh man i suck at this which is difficult shit is good for you. It's fun, man. And that's the one thing that's been the prime difference in my life is like, go into something and do something that kind of makes you nervous every day.

Go into fear-based shit and then live there. Yeah. And figure that out. It's exciting. It's the only way to live. And rewarding. In addition to being exciting. Rewarding.

The reward is huge. The exciting thing for me is that's the initial moment, but then the impact it has on your life. There's two different full spectrums. There's in that moment and then how it changes you as a human being. I've got to bring you guys down to check out SEAL training. Let's make a video. They may frown against that.

We can make a video when I jump, though, with you. Yes, because Joe will be in the plane as well. Also, I'll be strapped to the wing with a video camera. Look how small they're getting. Look. They're almost to the ground. If you don't let me take you jumping, we gotta go hunting. Okay. What do you want to hunt?

Duck. Oh, what the fuck is birds? I don't even like to hunt. I'll be out in the woods hunting you guys, hunting duck. That makes it more exciting. That's annoying. I need to bring up... That's gonna get in the woods hunting you guys, hunting duck. That makes it more exciting. I need to bring up... That's going to get in the way of concentrating. Here's the video. We'll end it with this because we're basically out of time.

We just did three hours, believe it or not. Flies by every time. Explain this, will you? That's just the Javelin missile. It cost $150,000 US dollar. This is what we were talking about earlier. For people listening, Andy essentially has a... This is a top attack.

It's like a sewer pipe attached to a shoulder. It's a giant fucking... With a computer. Yeah, with a computer attached to it. And it's about to launch. And these guys that you're launching against, tell us the background on that. It's just a truck. A truck full of guys. And these guys that you're launching against, tell us the background on that? It's just a truck. A truck full of guys.

And they're shooting at you? No, that's done. Okay, they were shooting at you. And now they're dancing outside the range of your rifle. Okay, there's the round. Fires off. It climbs. It's hard to see. But then you'll see where it lands. Oh my god. So that is far. How far away is that? That's about two kilometers. So it's quite a bit slower than a bullet. Oh, very God. So that is far. How far away is that?

That's about two kilometers. So it's quite a bit slower than a bullet. Oh, very much so. Yeah, because it's so much weight to it and the round. Look at you laughing. That's so fucked up. People just die. Ha ha.

Yeah, but you know what? Those people weren't me. So let's celebrate. And they were bad guys, right? Let's celebrate. Boom. That's crazy that that exists. Reach out and touch somebody.

And what is that going to be like in five years from now? It's going to be something even more insane. They already have like, you know, like suicide drones now and all sorts of stuff. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, just drone warfare alone. You know, I mean, what they're going to be able to do with these Boston, what are they called?

Boston Dynamics. Those crazy robots that they have. I mean, they've got those robots that you can kick, and they fucking go over sideways. So it's not just going to be drones that fly. It's going to be drones that, like, you're going to see an army of fucking Terminator robots running into camps. And they can go up hills, man. Hey, you know what, though? Good on them. I'd rather have that.

Fuck yeah. Totally. The Air Force Academy, for the first time a few years ago, graduated more non-manned aircraft pilots than manned aircraft pilots in their history. And did they graduate them through Xbox Live? I hope that was a prerequisite. That's where they recruit them. Those motherfuckers. Probably was a prereq. Yeah.

I'm sure. Well, listen, Andy, thank you very much, man. We've got to do this again. Thanks for having me, man. Anytime. It's awesome. Dude, let's do it again without a doubt. For sure. Tate Fletcher, Tatumus Maximus no longer. Now it's just straight up tate fletcher tatumus maximus no longer now it's just straight up tate fletcher on twitter um and my podcast is live live as fuck live as fuck pirate life uh itunes all that jazz yeah yeah yeah uh itunes and stitcher and all that right now up is like uh cowboy serrani and then kyle noak i just put up today and uh apparently

the ufc is mad about the one with Donald. I don't know why. I don't understand it. I don't know. Because of the failed drug test allegations? Well, he knows he did. Anyway, whatever. Well, he didn't fail.

He just wasn't there. But he told them where he was. He was in Vegas. It's a long story. You're going to have to listen to Pirate Life to find out the full details. Check it out. CavemanCoffeeCEO.com. Each and every episode, we drink Caveman Coffee. It's the best fucking coffee out the full details. Check it out. Cavemancoffeeco.com. Each and every episode, we drink Caveman Coffee.

It's the best fucking coffee on the planet Earth. And this time, we've got an answer. It's 240 milligrams of caffeine. So stronger than Red Bull, stronger than your mother's pussy. And we'll be back. See you tomorrow. Bye-bye. Thanks, man.

Kiss. Kiss. Kiss. Kiss. Ah.