The Joe Rogan Experience - #730 - Demetrious Johnson

Episode Date: December 2, 2015

Demetrious Johnson is a mixed martial artist. He is the first and current Flyweight Champion of the Ultimate Fighting Championship. http://www.twitch.tv/mightymouseufc125

How are you, sir? I'm good. Thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it. No, no. Thank you for having me. Thank you for thinking of me. How about that? Please. You are the guy. Whenever anybody asks me who's the best fighter in the world, you're the guy. I appreciate it, man. I think if young guys are coming up and they want to learn how to fight where they take as little damage as possible and inflict as much as possible, you're my perfect example. So thank you for being you.

No. You know what? I'm doing my best to pay these bills. I got bills to pay. I understand. But it's more than that, man. You can't just be paying bills because you don't just do enough work. You do more. It's pretty obvious when you fight that you're putting in crazy hours

because you keep getting better and better and better. It's not as simple as like you just paying the bills you obviously have a pretty deep passion for this yeah absolutely i mean i will honestly say it's credited to uh matt hume um and brad curtin uh ever since i started training mixed martial arts you know i didn't jump into mixed martial arts because the ufc i mean i did see the ultimate fighter and all that stuff but i saw it the workouts how in shape they were and then when i started fighting matt was like okay you're gonna do a mixed martial arts fight so i had my first amateur fight the next man was like good job okay then i'll go back to training and then that was like hey you're gonna do uh how do you feel about doing a kickboxing fight i was

like sure why not did a kickboxing fight won that he goes good job then he's like hey there's a jiu-jitsu tournament. You need to go there and beat everybody. I'll go there and take first place. He goes, good job. In the back of his mind, I think he's like, you know, making molding. He's molding me to be very well-rounded. And then one time he's like, hey, there's a boxing fight.

You want to take it? I'm like, sure, let's take it. Won that. And so forth. Then I did a Muay Thai fight. Then I did a jiu-Jitsu tournament. So I never just did pure mixed martial arts throughout my whole entire upbringing. He would make me do different aspects of martial arts,

mixed martial arts, to get me ready. So if I got in a fight and I'm fighting a pure boxer, I can get in there and be like, okay, I'm fighting a boxer. So boxer, I can put my head super low and not have to get worried about knees and stuff. So I've dabbled in every single – I've competed in every single sport in mixed martial arts. I never did taekwondo as a kid and all that stuff. As I got older, I joined AMC. He made me do those things, and I've done like four or five jiu-jitsu tournaments.

It's not gi, just grappling because basically you're half-naked when you're fighting. So that's what I did that way. Yeah. How many years were you training before you had your first fight? Amateur fight or professional? Any kind of fight. Oh, man. I trained maybe six months.

Six months? Six months. And how old were you at the time? 18, 19. So you've been with him for 10 years or so. Yeah. So I was with Matt had a satellite school, which was south. Yeah, so I was with Matt had a satellite school, which was south.

So here's Tacoma, where I used to live. And here's Puyallup. And then here's Auburn. And that's where his satellite school was. And then here's Renton. Then you got Newcastle. For anybody who's listening to this, he's moving his hands higher and higher and higher. Sorry. Up Washington State.

Yes. So way up north. So the AMC Matt's location is 45 to an hour away from me where I live now. Prior to that, it was like an hour and 30 minutes away from me. So I found his satellite gym. And even before I went to that gym, I had no idea who Matt Hume was. Even when I fought for Matt Hume, he would sit in a chair like Shaq Khan and just watch us fight. And then he wouldn't talk to me or anything.

Like who? Shaq Khan. Who's that? That's And then he wouldn't talk to me or anything. Like who? Shao Kahn. Who's that? That's the last guy on Mortal Kombat 2. He sits in a chair and he goes, finish him. But that's how it was. He would just sit there.

You say that like everybody would know what you're talking about. That's hilarious. They need that video game hype. So he would just sit there and watch. He would just sit there and watch. And he wouldn't even talk. I mean, he would talk to me, but he would not talk to me. It was just different.

And then eventually, once I had the first fight with Ian McCall, he goes, all right, Demetrius, you got to start taking this shit seriously. I was like, what do you mean? We're in the UFC. I just fought for a world title against Dominic Cruz. He goes, dude, you only train with me twice a week, like Saturdays. And at that point, it was only Saturdays. Wednesdays and Saturdays.

So you're only training with me two days a week. Like you need to take this shit seriously. When people are professional athletes, they come, they leave their families and move away and train with the trainer. And so that's why you saw a huge change in my game from the second Ian McAuliffe. Because I started training underneath him. If I went to go take a shit, Matt was like, hey, hey, hey, what color is that poop? I need to know.

He started overseeing everything I did when it was swimming, conditioning, everything. Beginning of my MMA career, when I was fighting Miguel Torres, Kiyama Moto, Demacio Page, Nick Pace, I was doing my own thing, like doing my conditioning on my own. Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday, Friday, I was doing my own thing, like doing my condition on my own. Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday, Friday, I was doing my own thing. And then Wednesday, Matt would come down to South, beat me up. And then Saturday, I would drive up to Kirkland and train with him, and we would spar.

So after that fight, the first team call fight, he was like, you need to take this shit seriously. And that's when I was like, all right, I'll do 100% with you then. And then this is what you have now. What a lucky break for you to find that guy, like as a trainer oh yeah i mean he's if he's not the best there's just there's a handful of guys like that i consider like the best like farasa hobbies in there matt's in there there's a few guys that are just at that upper level where they can coach you and everything. Oh, yeah. And that's so fortunate for a young fighter like you to find him at just the beginning stage. Yeah.

Oh, and even though he's – I think he's 49. He'll be 50 this year. It's always funny because when we're getting ready for a fight, we're in it 100%. We're training. We're learning. And I'm still learning. And then when I get ready for a fight, he lets me do my thing, stay in shape. I do a good job doing that.

And then sometimes we'll come back and we'll spar. And he was just in China and he was in Singapore. And I'm always like, okay, I'm going to get the best of him this time. I'm going to get the best of him. And so he's like, all right, I think I'm going to spar today. He'll go upstairs, get his gear on, and then, like, my buddy Carol, so he goes, oh, dad, dad's going to spar tonight. And I was like, I'm about to get him.

Watch. And we're sparring, and I remember we were sparring, and he was hitting me, and I was hitting him. And then I remember I did a Superman punch, and I connected, and I was like, yeah. And as I connected, I was like, boom, high kick hit me in the back of the head. And I was like, good fucking for you, Matt. Good for you.

You still got it, don't you? I mean, he's just an amazing athlete, even though he's 49 years old. He was a great fighter. Oh, yeah, he was an amazing fighter. I remember watching him way back in the day when he fought Pat Miletic. He broke Pat Miletic's nose, and they stopped the fight, which I was like, I remember even at the time, I was like, what the fuck, you're going to stop a fight over a broken nose?

Yeah. Like, that's crazy. It happens all the time in boxing. It happens all the time in every sport. But for whatever reason, they just decided to stop the fight. It didn't make any sense. Yeah, I think it was a good thing they did. I don't think the fight was going way south for Pat Milicic.

It was definitely going south for Pat. Well, Matt was so well-rounded. He had so many skills in so many different areas. I remember he competed in that all-submission tournament, too. Remember they had that professional all-submission thing that they did on pay-per-view once a long time ago? This is new knowledge to me. God damn it. I'm trying to remember the name of it.

I remember he tore Kenny Monday's leg. That was it. Okay, yeah. I've seen that before. That was it. Kenny Monday, who was an Olympic gold medalist in wrestling. Yep, yep. Yeah, Matt is like one of my all-time favorite guys as far as like coaches.

Those are the two guys that I'll tell people if they go, hey, man, I'm thinking about really taking this seriously. Move to Washington State or move to Montreal. There's your two places. Yep, I totally agree with you. Yeah, man, anytime you're in Seattle and you want to come out and hang out and probably even grapple with Matt, he would love to do it. I mean, he still grapples and he still – That's amazing that he doesn't have any nagging injuries. He's not all fucked up.

You know what? One of the things that Matt tries to push onto me is that he's like – I always ask him, if there was one thing you could have done different when you were training as a professional fighter, what would it be? He said, train smarter. Don't beat my body up so bad. And that's what he tries to implement on me. But no nagging injuries. Every once in a while, he'll pull something, and he will take the time to rest. But when I'm getting ready for a fight, he goes, I'm not going to jump in today.

I'm going to get this rested. I'm going to watch, coach you. And then once it's rested, I'm going to jump in. I'm like, okay, sounds good. Just make sure you jump in here because I need you. Yeah, it's so smart to do that, and so few guys do. Everybody wants to be a tough guy. Everybody wants to, like, rough it out and push through it.

It's so smart to do. It's so smart to just let the engine heal, let the machine heal. Absolutely. There's so many guys that think you have to be a hard ass. You have to wrap up your arm like a mummy and get in there. I mean, you could always do something, you know, you could always, like, I know a lot of guys who have, they've torn muscles. So they do all the workouts in the pool or something along those lines. Well, Rafael Dos Anjos, before he beat Anthony Pettis

for the title, he had an MCL tear. He couldn't do anything. So all he did was sprints on the aerodyne. I mean, he was just doing hour-long sprints. You know I just like interval sprints Yeah on the aerodyne and that's all he did for like the last couple weeks of his camp Yeah, well it's unfortunate because this is how us fighters make our money I remember when I was going to fight John Dotson for the second time I tore something in my calf and Matt's like you know I told my dude my calf my calf hurts and he's like all right lay down let me massage you let me see what's going on and it's a papyrus i think it

was and he goes yeah you pretty much tore it so we need to get that here and i was like well matt what the fuck i was like what do you want me to do you you you know we ran you know 15 miles this week and we also did sparring pads all all the you know the the the workout was very heavy and you're hanging on my neck and you know you're not 125 pounds you're 175 pounds so i mean i'm doing my job and push my body and i'm sorry that it's broken he goes i know we just need to heal before the fight and so we spent most of our cardio workouts in the pool just doing long sprints and you know unfortunately it's injuries are part of the sport and we never want to pull out from a fight but it's it happens

to everybody yeah it does happen it's kind of crazy if you look at the ufc schedule i think out of they said out of 40 title fights they had set over 40 main events 35 of them or 34 of them pulled out something crazy like that? Yeah, you're right. The majority. The majority changed, which is insane. It's not that you want the smaller percentage to be. Yeah. Well, it's different than any other sport because, like, boxing,

it's very rare that a fighter pulls out of a fight. Like, even Manny Pacquiao had a torn shoulder. He tore his labrum and still wound up fighting Floyd Mayweather for the title. You know, also, he's got $100 million on the line or something insane like that. I would. If I had a torn ACL and everything, I'd be like, $100 million, let's get it.

I'm going to get this paper. Yeah, because you never know when those paychecks are coming. Like, that's a crazy paycheck. That's a once-in-a-lifetime, you know. But so many people got mad at him after that fight when they found out that he was injured. True. But at the same time, like you said, once in a lifetime.

When's the next time you're going to fight Floyd Mayweather? Yeah, right. If you're so lucky to get in there. I mean, he's the ultimate payday. Yep. I'll fucking fight him. I'll fight him in boxing. I'll be like, dude, I don't care what happens.

I'll be taken care of. I'll be like, we're done. I'll be like, baby, break out the red panties, as Conor McGregor would say. Yeah, Conor McGregor, what a hilarious motherfucker that guy is. Jesus Christ. When you see a guy like that that's getting so much attention talking shit, does it make you want to start talking shit? No, man.

It's, you know, that's his gig. That's his gig. He's doing a good job at it. He's opening doors. He's the best at it. Yeah, he's the best at it. He's the best at it. I've never's the best at it. He's the best at it. I've never seen anybody that talks as much shit as he does, but in his way with his Irish accent, it's all a part of the show.

I agree. I love it. I remember the first time seeing him fighting, and I was watching him. I was like, okay, he understands distance. He understands fighting. He understands distance. He understands fighting. And then as I saw him fight a little better competition with Diego Brandao, Dustin Poirier,

and I saw how he crossed distance and how he could take a shot. And I'm like, okay, all right. Let's see. Now, the huge test. I'm ready to see one of your faces like. Yeah. The Aldo fight. That's going to be.

Who knows what the fuck's going to happen in that fight. That's what I like about it. What I love about that fight where people go, who's going to win it? Who's going to be, who knows what the fuck's going to happen in that fight. That's what I like about it. What I love about that fight where people go, who's going to win it? Who's going to win it? I don't fucking know. I don't fucking know. I got no idea. That's a I have no idea fight because anything can happen.

God damn, Conor takes a good shot. Yeah, he can take a shot. I was impressed because Mendes, he can bang. He connected a bunch of times. Conor just didn't seem phased at all yeah i'm very impressed with that he's got a big ass head too you know when him and aldo and this is coming from a dude with a big ass head as well but when him and aldo are face to face and he's looking down on all them like jesus christ look at the size plus the beard makes it look even bigger like yours yeah he doesn't quite have a as majestic a beard as yours thank you i

appreciate that i appreciate it's quite thank you quite have as majestic a beard as yours. Thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Not quite as majestic. But looking at the two of them together, you realize how much bigger Conor is. Yeah, absolutely. What do you think about the weight cut issue now

because of the IV ban? For people listening to this don't know what we're talking about. You used to be able to make weight and then after you made weight, you could rehydrate with IVs, intravenously. They banned that because fighters, apparently, people in other sports have used IVs to mask

performance-enhancing drugs. So they banned IVs. A lot of people think it's dangerous because they think it's the most efficient way to rehydrate, and if you're going to have weight weigh-ins, and especially if you're going to have a big disparity of weight classes. Like, you're in a weight class like 125, where there's a 10-pound jump between 125 and 135. But a lot of them, like 85 to 205, that's 20 pounds. Or 205 to 265 is crazy.

60 pounds, that's a giant difference. You know, I'm not going to lie, I'm all for it. I've never had to IV not once in my whole entire career. And there's been times I had to cut eight and a half pounds the day of weigh-ins. I think it's going to help people fight more at their natural weight classes. You know, I honestly think I'm probably one of the smallest guys in the flyweight division. You know, this morning, I don't know when I woke up, but I know yesterday I woke up at 141.5. And I had beer, good food the night before. So I'm a small guy.

So when I cut to 125, I mean, it's a hard cut. I'm cutting 15 pounds. But I rehydrate very well. I never get tired when I fight because I make sure I do my homework, learn how to diet right, and then make sure I get enough water in me so I can have the water to cut out of my system. But for guys who, you know, I know John Dotson, I've heard he gets like 157, 165. I've never seen him. Does he really?

That's what I've heard on the street. I know Joseph, he used to get big between his fights, but I heard he's kind of, you know, last time I talked to him, he's kind of stayed a little bit lower. Because in reality, it's like, what's the point of getting big and put muscle on? Eventually, you're going to have to cut it off anyways. I mean, the first thing that goes when you're losing weight is typically muscle then the fat and then so forth

so for me i'm all for it i think you're gonna start seeing a lot of guys like hannah brow he's gonna fight at 145 now who knows conor mcgregor he has a huge cut to 145 um he's gonna possibly fight at 155 so i think it's good i mean obviously i think i know a lot of guys love the way you can iv but now they're like i think the biggest thing is they're like whoa Whoa, whoa, we used to be able to do this for 20 years plus and now you're just gonna come here and say we can't do It what I thought this was America. So I think that's where people getting their their panties in a bunch Well the way the solution to that would be only have IVs that were supervised by doctors.

Or here's a better solution. Give someone a blood test at the weigh-ins. You don't need a lot of blood. You just prick them, get a little bit of blood. Then let them IV. And then test the blood. So then you know if they're doing anything. It's real simple.

Then test them after the fight and you're covered. Yeah, and I think they're trying to do my personal opinion i remember when we're doing the uh the usada meeting and uh it cracked me up because he was like well that's a totally story but he said that one fighter came in didn't give, came in, did his test before the fight. No, before weigh-ins. Tested. That test came back clean. But then after the fight, they did the post-fight, they're like, okay, there's something.

No. So he came in, weighed in, they tested him before he weighed in. Then after weigh-ins, they tested him again. Then after the weigh-ins, after the fight, they tested him. And they're like okay Well something's wrong here because he'd be hydrated and he was hiding something when he when he'd be hydrated and then the USADA guy I forget his name. He's like the head guy bald guy in the whiskey Jeff No, it's key Jeff Lewicki

He was saying this guy was hiding something we didn't further depth and he was hiding he was masking drugs with the IV And so I think we've already had that happen in our sport and that guy got caught who the fuck is that i don't know i don't even know who that is he didn't give a name really yep well how is that possible you're like i thought all that stuff is public no no no it didn't go public because what the person the person got caught but he didn't give the name of the story of who the person was who he did they tested. So he wouldn't say who got caught. Yeah, so let's say. He just was saying how someone got caught. And the person who got caught, we know that they got caught.

So it was public that they got caught. Yes, but we didn't know the whole logistic. But how he got caught. And he was like, this was recent. So it happened just recently. Huh. Who the hell could that have been? Who's been popped recently?

Let's speculate. Yeah. Hmm. The rumor mill. The rumor mill. Well, there's been a few guys. Well, obviously this is a sport that in the beginning. You can do whatever the fuck you want.

Yeah. And a lot of people did whatever the fuck they wanted. Yeah, absolutely. And I remember like, I know a lot of people like, I mean, you're a big fan of like, dude, Hey Joe, me and you are going to fight. You want to juice? I'll juice too. We're on the same plane.

And I think back in the day, the culture of it was okay with that. Because don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure when God made us, he goes, I'm going to build you to be able to fight year after year, year after year, take all this damage to the head. And someone was like, what's the best way to take a shot, a punch? I was like, there isn't, my friend. Your body's not designed to get beat up on. It's not.

At all. But with the TRT or testosterone or HGH, all that stuff, it helps the recovery of it so you can have a long career. It doesn't just seem to help. It seems to help your ability to take punishment. Oh, absolutely. That's what's crazy. It's like a lot of these guys that are juiced up, they can take a better shot. Career it doesn't just seem to help it seems to help your ability to take punishment. Oh absolutely That's what's crazy. It's like a lot of these guys that are juiced up They can take a better shot I tell you what when I thought all the blog routine off my mom my father goes dude

After got on the fight he goes I came home, and he saw my knees my knees were just blown up You beat the fuck out of that dude He hung in there. Yeah, he did and in and uh My father came and he goes I out of that dude. And he hung in there, man. Yeah, he did. And my father-in-law came in and he goes, I guarantee you he's going to pop for something. No man can take a beating like that

and be able to walk away like that. I promise you. Sure enough. After the fight? After the fight, if I'm playing video games, somebody calls me, do you hear what happened?

I was like, no. What's up? And he goes, he popped. He popped for... EPO. EPO. And I was like, ah, shit,

huh, no worries. And Matt was, Matt was floored. He goes, no wonder. Cause when we studied tape on him, Matt was like,

he's going to get tired and you're going to be able to finish him. He still got tired. He still got tired, which is incredible. Yeah. And then Matt was like, you're going to be able to finish him. And then when we didn't finish him,

Matt was like, that's the reason why. Cause he never got tired. And he never got as tired as he should have. He's a guy that he's got a, there's a style of fighting where it's kind of like you're pushing, you're going all in. Yeah. You know, and that's what he does with all his punches.

He's pushing all his chips in. He's throwing 100% effort into all of his punches. He grits down his teeth. He winds up with his punches. And he's got good power. Oh, yeah. But that style, you just can't fight like that for five rounds you just can't do it and it's really not a smart style anyway because those punches come

slower yeah and there's a few guys that still fight like that even though that's their the one of the worst ways to do it there's a lot of guys stuff like that but you can get away with it if you blow the guy out in the first round exactly and another side of that the double-edged sword is that it's very exciting. People like that. People are like, oh my god. Well, hey, look at Ronda Rousey. That's a perfect example. Like, Ronda Rousey, after the first round, there's obviously, there were stylistic issues,

and there was obviously technical issues, where she wasn't as good as we thought she was standing up. You know, when you see her hit the pads, and you see her fight someone like Betch Cohea, she looked good. But then you see her fight a skilled striker like Holly, and some issues got exposed. Some technical issues.

But she fucking sprinted. Like, she came out the opening round and sprinted. And by the end of the first round, she'd been hit a bunch, and she was exhausted. She was exhausted. And it was because she went all in. She went all in. And you think about it, that's how she's been so successful with her opponent I mean the biggest thing

you could do nobody trained in the gym like hey round one fight right nobody fights like that so when you do that to opponent that that breaks him down it freaks him out yeah I I would you know give praises to Greg Jackson and John Wiggle John those guys over there Albuquerque freaking Holly home ready for that. Because in my mind, going into that fight, I was like, if I was Holly Holm, I would take a second, relax, see what Ronda is bringing, you know, use my jab, use my high kick, use my spinning kick, just to get Ronda off her game. Because Ronda likes to clash.

She likes this collision. Like you said, when she fought Bess Kruhera, yeah, she won that exchange to Bess to uh best career when her wins and octagon if you look at the people she's fought their combined record i did the well my fans my my mighty squad they did the uh the mighty squad the mighty squad my mighty squad they did that they brought me the numbers and they're like dude her her combined record of her opponents in uc was one in nine wow so you know that's really oh yeah that's amazing so when you look at like, you know, obviously the promotion has to do their thing to sell the next big fight.

But as me, as an athlete, I'm like, so Betch Carrera versus Ronda Rousey, you wouldn't know how this is going to go. Ronda Rousey is going to knock her out because yes, Betch Carrera is undefeated nine and oh, but who the fuck is she fought?

Like you have to look at, you know, who that person's fought. So when I look at a person like Josephine DeVitas, I always give him high praises because the man's fought Dominic Cruz. He's only two losses between me and Dominic Cruz. John Dotson, he hasn't lost at 135 and his only loss to 125

is to me. His skill set is high up there to where Kat Zagano, I thought she had the best chance to beat Ronda Rousey. But I spent time with her in the back when we were getting ready to fight UFC 178. And she was so emotional.

I was sitting there back there just eating a banana. And she was like, doing her thing. And I'm like, it's just a fucking fight. Don't worry about it. It's just a fucking fight. I was like, it's just going to fight. She goes, I don't even hear that right now. And I was like, all right. And she goes I don't even hear that right now and I was like

alright and she goes out there and she's so emotional I'm like that's gonna be her downfall and I told people when she fights Ronda she can't get emotional

and then what she do she goes out and throws a flying knee gets caught up arm bar if she wouldn't have went out there I'm in a fight take my time work my jab

I got 25 minutes why do I need to rush why do I need to rush if there was like, okay, there's a time limit. You have five minutes, let's see who's going to win. I'm going to go all fucking in. I'm going to blow my wad. But when you have 25 minutes, I'm going to take my time and enjoy it.

Well, I think the overwhelming moment of being there, fighting for the title, fighting Ronda at the peak of her popularity or near the... That fight was probably the one that set Ronda over the top. And then Betch Calhaya just shot her into the stratosphere because it was in Brazil. I'll tell you,

man, that was a surreal moment. It was surreal being there in Brazil because every time I've been to Brazil before, they never cheer for Americans. I mean, they cheer, you know, when you're over, you give props to Brazil, but when you're on the weigh-in scale and you're fighting a Brazilian, they're very proud.

Yeah. And they were fucking cheering Ronda and booing Betch Cohean. Like, Betch, we're disowning you, Betch. It was crazy. She's up there with the flag. Brazil! Brazil! And they're like, no!

No, Ronda! Honda! You know, it was crazy, man. And when she won, it was just, it was bizarre. It was a bizarre moment. Watch her strut around the octagon. Like she was like taking it all in and walking around like some fucking gladiator shit. It was like some Russell Crowe shit.

And I was like, wow, this is crazy. But for her, what a trip it must be to go from that, which is just like the most epic victory in Brazil, in the home country. Million pay-per-view buys. She's a superstar in every talk show, and everybody wants to talk to her too. Head kicked to beating down and then head kicked. Yeah. I think watching that fight and how Matt always talks about pushing your opponent to the distance where you need to land a kick.

So once Holly, I mean, when Holly had her down once once before and then she got up and holly kind of let her go and then the second time when she pushed her butt into the high kick and i was like i mean i've always i didn't know too much about holly home then once you know the fight was getting built up i was okay i'm gonna do a little more research on the home and then i saw how she was strong she was an athletic um and you know she, she's always, her high kick's very good. And when she landed on there, I was like, this bitch is bad. And so I just felt that Rana Rousey ran into somebody who's just as athletic or more athletic than she is, who doesn't, I'm not saying Rana Rousey blows up between her fight camp,

but I would say, you know, if we went to Holly Holm right now, she would probably, you know, still have abs, you know, she's fit. Yeah. And who's a great striker. I mean, that's her domain. I mean,

she's a world champion in boxing. I heard she had a kickboxing background before too. And that's one thing I say, I always talk to Tiji Doshal about Ronda Rousey. I'm like, damn it. I was like, oh,

Ronda Rousey, her pad works so good, but I just want to see her fucking kick. Right. Pad work is, like her hands were really fast. Her hands are fast. And her knees her pad works so good, but I just want to see her fucking kick. Right, pad work is, like, her hands were really fast. Her hands were fast. And her knees to the body were good, but never kicks. Never kicks.

I'm like, I just need to see her kick. And TJ's like, bro, she don't need to kick, dog. She don't need to. I was like. Who said this? TJ Doshaw. Me and him talk on a daily, not a daily basis, but each time we're together.

She doesn't need to kick. Yeah, he goes. Everybody needs to kick. Oh, absolutely. I was like, I just need to see her kick. I was like, you know, if she had a good jab-jab inside nine to disrupt Holly Holm's base, to change the distance, you know, because the only way Ronda Rousey can hit you is from punches.

My legs are longer than my feet, so I can use my kicks to change the distance, to disguise my distance to Holly Holm. But she doesn't have that in her repertoire. I don't know if Edmund is versatile in kicks or the clinch game because each time Ronda clinches, it's always, I'm looking to throw you. I'm not looking to clinch, Muay Thai, throw elbows, oh, shoot down for a double leg takedown, oh, switch to single leg, drag you off one foot, throw the left hook.

She's not versatile in that. So that's when people are like, man, she's the best world-wide in the fighting world. I'm like, I haven't seen her kick. I haven't seen her do a double leg takedown. I haven't seen her drop to her back and do a heel hook. I can't buy into that. I mean, she's amazing. Amazing athlete. What she's done with the

skill set she's been given, absolutely amazing. I mean, she's blown off. Her numbers are way better than mine, so what the fuck am I saying? Well, her athleticism is unquestionable. Her will, her drive, her championship heart, all those are unquestionable. But I think women's MMA is sort of at a level where men's MMA was in like the late 90s, like maybe the early 2000s. You know, it's like the level of competition is just not nowhere near where it is in the men's division. And in the men's division, in the most competitive weight classes like yours, 135, 155, you, 145, you can't be one-dimensional. It is not possible.

You have to be able to kick. You have to be able to punch. You have to be able to escape submissions. You have to have takedown defense. You have to be able to take people down. You have to have takedown defense you have to be able to take people down yeah you have to have everything yeah and in mma you in women's mma rather you didn't have to for for a while but when someone like holly comes along now you're going to yes or you look at joanna jaycheck amazing striker she's developed a way to not get taken down but when

i saw from her last fight and granted she broke her hand, I don't know what around, but when I saw from that fight, I was like, I know the person who could beat her now. Well, Claudia Gadea almost beat her the first time they fought. The first time. Very close fight. Split decision for Joanna. Yep, yep. I think the person who's going to be able to beat her and dethrone her,

it would be Paige Van Zandt. What? Really? Wow. Big, big statement. What about Rose? What if Paige and Rose are going to throw down next weekend? The biggest thing, they're going to throw down next weekend.

So, like I said, I never like to give out my predictions because people— Well, you have to now because you just said Paige, and Paige is going to fight next weekend against Rose. Well, this is the reason why. Okay, I love Joanna Jacek. It doesn't mean I don't like her. The thing that I see from Joanna is that she's a stand-up artist. She hits like a fucking truck. But the thing I see from Paige Van Zandt is that, one, she's still green.

She's still new. But the pace she puts on people, the pace that Loretta Valerie put on Joanna, when Joanna wasn't hurting Valerie. And I was like, okay, so she's not hurting her. But I can start to see Joanna start to slow down just a little bit. If Valerie had a little more wrestling, a little more diverse, just fighting. I'm just going to fight you. I think, and that's what Paige brings when she fights.

She puts on a high pace to where she's in your face. Yes, she has some weird scrambles where it's like, oh, what the hell happened? But she ends up on top and then she starts punching you ground to pound. I think that pace is going to give Joanna Jacek a problem. Obviously, Joanna is going to prepare for her and have her great takedown defense. But I think if Paige comes in and like, okay'm gonna i'm gonna get in your fucking face i'm not gonna give you a chance to get your jab set your set your muay thai up i'm gonna get on you we're gonna do we're gonna clinch i'm gonna wrestle you like when i did my muay thai fight i didn't did i didn't fight the guy muay thai style i fucking

wrestled him i got in there started clinching him grabbing his head and then when he tried to put me off balance i put him off balance for my wrestling that's what you have to do with someone who's a multi world champion and I believe Paige Van Zandt could do that if she has the right skills if she has the right coaching and the right attitude in and is ready to get fucking hit a lot she's gonna get hit a lot yeah and and with the Rose and Paige the biggest thing and the same thing I tell Rose is that she's so emotional and I told her I told her, I was like, don't be so emotional.

I was like, you're so, you're so talented, so good. But I feel like you get the emotions, get the best of you. And I know it's hard. It's a fight. It's absolutely 100% a fight. And that's why I take myself out of the emotion. I was like, dude, two things are going to happen when we fight. I'm either going to lose or I'm going to win.

That's what's going to fucking happen. I'm just going to have to do my best. If I lose, I lose. If I win, I win. That's it. Well, fucking happen. I'm just going to have to do my best. If I lose, I lose. If I win, I win. That's it. Well, Paige is very scrappy. Oh, yeah. For sure.

I mean, you watch her fight, and there's no question about it. She's enjoying herself. She trains hard, and she's got mad potential. I mean, she just turned 21, right? Exactly, yeah. She's 21? I think she just turned 21. I remember the last time we were hanging out, she was like,

Oh, yeah, that's why I can go to the club now and I can drink. I've been to the club already, but I still drink. Well, whatever. That's awesome. Well, she's had a great team too. Alpha male. She's got a lot of people her size. Tough guys.

Which can push her to be like unique. There's been times when I fought people and Matt's like, you see this guy right here? When I fought Dotson the first time, Matt was like, you need to be all over him you need to be on him from once the bell starts you be in his face what I did the first time we fought I jumped all over him and that's what caused me to get dropped a couple times but got my black ass back up and kept on going forward and then now the second time we fight I have way more I have a lot better footwork I'm more seasoned I

my skills have kind of harnessed. Now I'm like, okay, I just need to be all over you and not overextend myself to where you can land that big shot. So if Paige can see that, I'm like, okay, Joanna, she needs time. It's like Rafael Dos Anjos versus Sergio Perez, Anthony Perez. Anthony Perez, he has to go out there, set his kicks up. Okay, he's going to set it up like Donald Cerrone when they first fought if he pettis grabbed Donald Cerrone's hands ran off the cage and threw a flying knee

and hit him only way you can do that is if you give that person the time to set up I'm like we're going to fight you're not going to have time to look fucking pretty I'm going to make this a nice grueling fight I'm going to get in your face and we're going to wrestle and that's what Dos Anjos did Dos Anjos just ran at him he was always first. And that's what Dos Anjos did. That's what Dos Anjos did. Yeah, Dos Anjos just ran at him.

Yep. He was always first. Yeah, exactly. And that's what you do. With somebody who needs time to set up, who needs time to test the distance and figure shit out, you get in their face.

Well, he trains with Nick Curzon, Dos Anjos does, who is one of Marv Marinovich's disciples. And we were talking about it. He did the podcast and he was saying, if you watch the fight, what happened was that Dos Anjos was always there just slightly quicker like their skill sets were incredibly similar

Like incredibly similar as far as like how good they both are Oh, yeah, but dos Anjos was just landing just a little bit quicker was a little bit. He was there first he never let Pet a set up and because that, he won all the exchanges. He just won virtually every minute of every round. But every time by that much. That's when you have two great fighters playing with fractions of seconds where it's like, I need to get off. Like Conor McGregor, I think he does a good job when he gets taken down. Like when he fought Chad Minnis, he got taken down and Chad's ground and pound. He's just, okay, you're hitting me, you're hitting me.

But each time they got up, Conor, they are putting the pressure on him. Because you think about it, in fights, they get up, they're like, good job. Oh, let's go back to the center of the octagon in the fight. Fuck that. I'm at my distance. I'm going to start fighting now. And you're going to have to deal with the pressure. I'm going to make you pay for taking me down and letting me back up.

And that's what I think Dos Anjos did. Conor did against Chad Mendes. And I think you're going to start to see, when people start to get it and have the cardio to do it, you're going to start seeing a lot more of that in mixed martial arts. Yeah, I think so too. It's really interesting when you look at the progression of MMA from 1993 to today.

It's so crazy because if you, we've talked about this before, but if you watch football from 1993 and football from 2015, it's still football. Yes. I mean, back then you had Herschel Walker, you know, you had great football players. There was a lot where you could compare and you could look at them and you'd go, well, these guys are elite athletes. They're playing the same sport. Man, you go back and watch UFC 1 and it's not even, it's not even the same sport.

It's just not. like the sport is evolved even from 2005 if you go back to the time when the UFC had the ultimate fighter if you go ten years for the first season of the ultimate fighter you go ten years ago and then watch now the difference between a world champions then and world champions now it's boy is a giant leap yeah I would say there's more athletic people in the sport, more athletes learning how to fight. Back in the day, you just had guys like, I just want to fight. I don't care how much I get paid. That's it.

Now, I know you've probably been paying attention to John Jones has been powerlifting. Oh, yeah. He's taking it very serious now. And he just deadlifted 600 pounds on monday and put it up on instagram and but daniel was saying that all this extra bulk is not good he's like this is probably good for me that he's doing this yeah i i think uh i mean you look back to the first time with daniel courtman john jones fight he goes fuck i didn't realize how heavy he was when i had to carry him around and i think the second time they fight, he's going to have to carry that weight around

because Jon Jones is longer. I would say Jon Jones is maybe faster. I mean, they're both still fast, but I think Jon Jones is going to have the upper hand in the striker realm. So Daniel Cormier's going to have to carry all that extra weight around. And that's a beautiful thing,

is that Jon Jones, yes, he's put on weight. He's not, you know, big Jon Jones. He's athletic. He's not, you know, big John Jones. He's athletic. He's taking his time off more seriously than he said during his partying days. So in retrospect, when he gets in the camp, he's already way ahead of the curve than he was when he fought DC the first time.

So if anything, I think it's worse for DC that John Jones is lifting now because he's not out partying and getting fat. Right. It was pretty incredible that he had coke in his system three weeks before and he still beat Cormier like what the fuck man and that just shows you talented yeah that just shows you how talented he is and that I mean it's fighting I mean and he's able to adapt when he fights he's able to adapt like even after watching that fight when i watched dc

and cormier when they fought i felt like john jones and i've always felt like this with john jones like when he fought uh rampage um uh even when he fought leo domicita i feel like he goes out there he takes it all in see what his points wants to do does a knee tap and all that stuff where he kicks people's in in the in the kneecap but i feel that there's a point where he turns around and goes okay i'm gonna fucking finish you now like when he broke his foot when he broke his dislocated his toe uh his chail it was you i felt like you saw a different you know fighter to where it's like of a wolf you know had its prey and it's playing with them then it was okay i'm gonna tear your throat out that's why i felt like when john jones dc fight i felt like john jones just kind of he did it enough to win

but i felt like he was like i I'm going to fucking destroy you now. Like, I'm going to put you on your back, I'm going to take your back and send me you. And I feel like the next time you see Jon Jones fight DC, I think you're going to see that. Well, the Chael Sonnen fight, he wanted to prove a point. Like, you talk so much shit, and you know you're not in my league, so I'm just going to go out

and fuck you up. And he went out and fucked him up with his own game. I mean, he took Chael down, just beat his ass from there. What's really crazy about that fight is that John didn't know that he had dislocated his toe until I was talking to him in the post-fight interview. He looked down and saw his toe and went, oh my god.

And then he kind of went into shock, but what was going through my head was like, what would have happened if Chael made it out of that round? If Chael made it out of that round, John might not have been able to continue. Yeah. I mean, the doctors might have stopped. His foot was turned upside down where the bottom of his big toe was looking up.

I mean, it was fucked up. It's amazing that it healed up so quickly. But if Chael had lasted somehow or another through that first round, he would have won the title. Yeah, he would have been like, oh, well, default by Chael. You are talking to the best fighter in the title. Yeah, he would have been like, oh, well, default by Joe Sarnagel. You are talking to the best fighter in the house of Phil Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan, I'm looking at your pants right now, and I think you are excited, my friend.

Are you? That's exactly what he would have said. Yeah, he probably would have had speeches planned. I mean, he's hilarious. He's the second best shit talker of all time. I said he was the best until Conor came around. He was the best. He's the second best shit talker of all time. I said he was the best. Until Conor came around, he was the best. He was the best. But like all things, there comes an end and the new ones come along.

Exactly. When he almost beat Anderson, so that was a perfect example of a guy that was fighting injured. When Anderson had a fucked up rib going into that fight. Couldn't stuff the takedown. Couldn't stop it. And still managed to pull off that triangle in the fifth round. But if you watch that triangle, like I watched that triangle a bunch of times,

it wasn't in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think once he started scooting, it almost turned into an arm triangle, an arm bar triangle. The foot was never locked in behind the knee. It was never like, you know, it was never like fucking clamped in.

He never tapped. Remember, he never tapped. Is that what he said? Well, remember Joe, you know, it was never like fucking clamped in. He never tapped. Remember, he never tapped. Is that what he said? Well, remember, he goes, I didn't tap. What the hell are you doing? Well, he had had that issue before with Paul Ophelio. Remember that? Yep, yep.

In WC, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they fought again. And that was when Ophelio had lost his fucking mind. Yeah. I remember Matt was there, and he was at the bar and he was just drinking, just hammering wine that night up

before Wayne's, I think it was. What? And then somebody... He didn't make the weight. No, he didn't make the weight. And I think somebody else was there with Matt and then the guy called the guy who was with Matt

and he goes, hey man, hey, I'm thinking about gambling on the fight. What do you think? And this wasn't Matt. This was a guy who was there with Matt. And he goes, hey, man, hey, I'm thinking about gambling on a fight. What do you think? And this wasn't Matt. This was a guy who was there with Matt. And he goes, well, the way the fucking things look, Paulo Filho is at the bar right now drinking fucking wine.

So if you're going to gamble, gamble and chill. And he goes, really? All right, I'm going all in. And sure enough, he cashed out. He wasn't even in his room drinking. I mean, he's drinking in public. That's how crazy that guy is. Paulo Filho was a fucking dynamic Brazilian jiu-jitsu artist, though.

He was a bad motherfucker when it came to his jiu-jitsu. But he just couldn't control his demons for whatever reason. Whatever those demons were, he couldn't control them. That's a guy everybody forgets about. God damn, his jiu-jitsu was good. His jiu-jitsu was so tight. I remember watching him fight. I was like, this guy's high level, man.

It's very rare you see guys who come from pure Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with like Jacare, Bibiano Fernandez, who come from a Gi perspective of grappling and be able to transfer well over to mixed martial arts because I've grappled with a lot of black belts and no Gi in mixed martial arts. And I'm like don't know how i feel about it but when i go like a bibiano i'm like holy shit like this is a totally different level so and i think with the gear without without the gi without the without the like each time i grapple bibiano it's like when we get i rather be in bibiano's uh hang on what

was it i rather have bibiano in my guard than me being his guard wow because I tell him I was like I don't like because when we do MMA sparring like it's different because he

I just learned this it's called cooking the beans the Brazilian it's called the cooking the beans you need to you need to cook the beans

and he's like you see my friend when you take people down you like to posture up punch them in the face pass guard and I was like yes that's how I've been trained

that's how Matt trains me he goes okay now I'm going to teach you something else and Matt's like, you like to posture up, punch them in the face, pass guard. And I was like, yes, that's how I've been trained. That's how Matt trains me. He goes, okay, now I'm going to teach you something else. And Matt's like, okay, you need to learn this side of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. He goes, it's called cooking the beans. You can't just throw beans in a pot and then expect to eat them. They're going to be hard. You need to cook your beans, let them simmer, and then you can eat them. So that's what you got to do in this part of jiu-jitsu.

You need to get in there work it change your uh not change your push-ups change your your pushes let them get tired and then once they get tired then you can enjoy your dinner and that's what bibi on does to me like when we're sparring i'm like i'm like okay baby all right whenever whenever you want to pass my guard or do this this you can do it he goes don't don't you worry mr demetri johnson i'm going to get you don't worry about it then he fucking gets her i'm like son of a bitch damn it damn damn it so there's a lot of guys that start out with the gi and they develop great habits for the gi but terrible habits for no gi i agree like a lot of collar control a lot of uh grabbing cuffs grabbing the cuff yeah oh my

god and then they don't have those cuffs and they they become like a blue belt. It's crazy to see a high-level black belt that never trains no-gi, and then they train no-gi, and they don't know what they're doing. It's crazy. Or even, not even for the lines of no-gi, of MMA. Oh, yeah. Even worse. I grappled with somebody the other day, and he was pure jiu-jitsu, way bigger than me. And he had a series i like to go

here to go to dars to um crucifix on your back and then uh from there uh take your back and try to choke you out so once we went for like two minutes i was like okay this is your game i know what it is and we started grappling and then when he was in my guard he wouldn't he wouldn't try to he had a he tried to go through the middle with his knee and i was like okay you're pure brazilian jiu-jitsu and i was like so this is the mma fight you know i his knee and I was like, okay, you're pure Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I was like, so if this was an MMA fight I'm right there, I was like, I could just stand up and knee you in the stomach and start punching you in the face and so I can tell, when I start going with somebody

like if I was to grapple with you'd be like, hey man, why don't you grapple with this guy? I'm like, okay, I'll grapple with you and then I'll feel him out and I'm like you're just pure Jiu Jitsu and I'm like because you're not mixing everything up with mixed martial arts into it So even like when you're not mixing everything up with mixed martial arts into it. So even when you're down on the ground with someone just rolling,

you could tell that they're pure jiu-jitsu by the way they set things up? Yes, I can tell. If they're pure jiu-jitsu and they've done mixed martial arts, so for instance, for me, you can tell when I'm on my back, I'm not a Brazilian jiu-Jitsu fighter. I know how to do my arbor. I know how to do my commerce. I know how to do my front chokes and elevate and tip you off and all that stuff.

But typically when I'm on my back, I'm doing either two things. I'm trying to set your weight somewhere else so I can get back on my feet so I can start striking with you. Or I'm looking to, you know, L at you to reverse you and then get my top game and then start playing my game to looking to punch you. Typically, you know, when I go with Bibiano, he has both those styles where he'll cook the beans, I mean, where he'll get heavy when I'm on his back. When he's on his back, he's throwing up the triangle, the arm bar,

doing certain steps where I'm like, okay, this guy, he's, I don't want to be here. I want to, I don't like it. I want to pass your guard and get it there. To where the guy I were with the other night, I can feel guy, he's, I don't want to be here. I want to, I don't like it. I want to pass your guard and get it there. To where the guy we were with the other night, I can feel, I was like, you're just trying to cook the beans, dog. And it ain't going to happen. These beans aren't going to be cooked. And so that's why I was like, okay, you're just a spirit jujitsu.

Cook the beans is a great statement. I'm going to hold on to that one. Because I had heard cooking, like Hoist says that before. You know, I've heard him say that. You know, you've got to cook your opponent, you got to cook them. Yep. Or Matt always talks that when Matt's, one of his trainers, Haru, he would always reference everything in fishing. And so he goes, you know, when you go out fishing, you know, you throw the line out there and you just don't reel it up like that.

You know, you throw the line and you kind of, you know, make the fish take the bait. Then once they take the bait and they bite you, you hook them. And so when Matt's talking about striking, you know, you go out there and you start, you know, making them, you know, if you have a counter-striker, you want to give them that illusion like, hey, I'm right here. Kind of what Conor does. Conor gets here, you know, he's here, and then when you start striking, he's like, I'm actually right here, and I can hit you.

So that's what kind of reference of like, I'm a big reference of analogies. When I teach mixed martial arts, when I used to teach, I would always use analogies when I would teach the students at AMC. Connor also has the shit talking that he does while you're fighting. Which is, you know, I watched that Tyson Fury, Vladimir Klitschko fight. Did you see that fight? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vladimir Klitschko looked like dog shit.

And I think one of the reasons why he looked like dog shit is that Tyson Fury guy never shut the fuck up. He didn't shut the fuck up at the press conferences. He didn't shut the fuck up at the weigh-in. He didn't shut the fuck up when they were introducing the fight. I mean, when they're doing national anthems, he didn't shut the fuck up. And I think, like, to a guy like Vladimir, who barely speaks English anyway, he's like a stoic sort of a guy, I think that fucks with his head.

It could be. I never forget when Chad was like, he was still talking shit when I was seeing him. He goes, uh, uh, uh. And I think it can happen. I mean, for me, if somebody was going to talk, I remember when I was getting ready to fight Dawson the second time, he goes, I'm going to talk shit to him in the fight. I'm like, we'll fucking see.

We'll see. And he did it. There was a point in time where I was going to talk shit. I was like, yeah, you were talking shit. Now I hate you. Take it. When you were dominating that fight from the jump, I think he never really had a chance to get comfortable enough to start talking shit.

The thing about talking shit is you have to think about it while you're doing it and then the opponent has to think about it while you're doing it. You have to think about it while you're doing it and your opponent has to think. There's a whole other element going on in the fight. There's a conversation. Yeah, exactly.

I think the only time I've ever talked shit before in fights was somebody said I had a weak-ass ground game and I was like it was just during the countdown i was like okay i got a weak ass ground game perfect all right just gave me more motivation beat your ass and sure enough we're getting the fight and i'm beating him up and then i submit him and i walk away and i do my thing i walk into him and he was on the ground just you know like this and i said got on my knees like not bad bad for a weak-ass ground game, huh? And just walked off.

And I was like, hmm. And the people who knew me knew what I said to him. Was that Moraga? No, no, no. Who was it? It was Chris Carriazo. Oh, Chris Carriazo said that? Yeah, he said it.

He said it in the cap down. But even like in all my opponents, every single time I fought them, to the John Dox, even though he talks shit about me, to John Moraga when he talks shit about me, every single time I fight my guys, I go up to him and say, dude, hey, this isn't the end of your career. At the end of the day, it's about being able to take care of your family, pay your bills, and have a career. So this isn't the end for you. Keep on fighting, and maybe you get another chance at the title, or maybe not.

And no matter how much shit they talk about me, then it doesn't matter to me. Well, it's interesting because shit talking is almost a prerequisite. It almost seems like it's almost mandatory. It's so rare that someone doesn't talk shit. Name one time I've talked shit. You don't. You don't. But it's rare.

It's very rare. Like Luke Rockhold and Chris Weidman. These two are talking more shit before this fight than any other fight I could ever remember Weidman being in. Yeah, true. And I think, honestly, it's because of numbers. If somebody goes like this, if I say, Joe Rogan, you are going to fight

the commentator for Bellator. I don't even know his name. Jimmy Smith. Jimmy Smith. There you go. Thank you. You're going to fight Jimmy Smith. I'm going to pay you $2 million just to fight. You ain't got to that you show up make weight Posting videos here and there you get two million dollars, right? or if

Okay, Jordan. Here's your contract. Okay, you have a percentage that you can hit sir If you can hype this fight up you want to get 50% of revenue my friend You're like fuck, you know Smith man. He ain't y'all see me hitting them weights today. I'm gonna destroy this guy. He is slow Of course, of course, it's totally different thing Yeah, but if I came to you if I went to Luke Rocko if I want to chat minutes I'm sure it's kind of rare still fucking talk shit, but I talk shit was free But if I went to Josie Aldo and Conor McGregor and Luke Rockhold and Chris Weidman on like, okay guys Here's here's the thing. You're going to get $2 million.

You're going to get $2 million. Aldo and Conor, you're going to get $5 million. Do your thing. You ain't got to talk shit. Just do whatever you want to do. This is going to get paid. I guarantee you, you still might hear Luke Rockhold say Chris Weidman is slow. He would probably say it in a more intelligent way.

You know, they were like, Luke Rockhold, what are the things you see about Chris Weidman? I think he's slow. I obviously think I am the more better athlete than he is. And I think I'm going to be able to expose that tonight. Instead of him, like, Chris is slow. Slow, slow, slow. You know, trying to derogatory. So that's my opinion.

But then again, i could be wrong no i think you've got a point i think but i think it's there's both things going on because like we said there's a psychological game that's going on that will go on no matter what yeah but then there's the hype for financial gain oh yeah you know the only reason i bought the best career in ron rossi fight is because when she was like don't cry yeah i was like all right babe call the right tv let's fucking order it you guys see this bitch get work. That's the only reason why I bought it. Because I knew how the fight was going to go.

Even the Manny Pacquiao and Mayweather. I didn't have to buy the fight. I was like, I knew exactly how the fight was going to go. Did you really? Yeah, I knew exactly how the fight was going to go. You didn't think that if Manny Pacquiao was healthy that he presented some problems? Nope. Wow, that's interesting.

Because the way boxing is scored. I guess you get points if i block your shot technically right so if i'm here you throw a hook i'm like got that there's a point for me boom got that like when he fought uh medina and he was on the ropes getting beat up if that was mixed martial arts he wouldn't want to fight hands down but in boxing he's blocking on that. You're wasting your punch, which rightfully so. That's how it should be. Yeah, you could throw 500 punches in a fucking round and you only land 10 of them. What the hell were you doing?

Especially with those big gloves because you can block with the big gloves better. Exactly. Even MMA. Oh, man. He threw 500 punches. How many of those fucking things landed? Right. That's why I'm so big on being technical.

Why am I going to go out there and throw all these punches and nothing, and do nothing? That was what was great about your victory over Dodson. I was interviewing you. Look at me. I just went five rounds, and I'm pretty as a motherfucker. It was true. It was true.

But it was hilarious because you didn't just go, you went five rounds with the most dangerous guy. Exactly. And that's why I bring it to a point where people like, you know, and sometimes I feel people get upset. They're like, from like a promoter standpoint, they're like, ah, fuck. You know, this was a fight to make. You know, Dodson's that guy who hits people and knocks them down.

And I'm like, dude, you hit hard, I'm not going to fucking be there. I'm not going to sit there and let you hit me. People are like, you need to bang it out. What? No. That's so stupid. They no, what like you wanna get more fans? That's so stupid somebody goes dude If you wanna make more money you should go to 135 and I'm like so let me get this so you're saying I want to Make more money fine at 135 is that in my contract is that guaranteed? No, it's not so you're you're fucking high right now. Well, that doesn't that's not right anyway

I mean your weight class is correct. This is where you belong. It's like you're fighting perfectly at this weight class There's no problems whatsoever Yeah People just don't know what the fuck they're talking about and they don't appreciate the art of what you're doing your fight with John Dotson was one of my favorite fights of the year Thank you It was because it was like this is like if I tell if I have a if there's a young guy That's thinking about a young girl. It's thinking about getting into MMA. I will watch this fight

You're watching a guy fight one of the most athletic one of the most dangerous guys in the fucking in the sport Yeah, a guy who legitimate one punch knockout power a guy who does flips I mean he's up He's way more athletic than me like if he's a freak if you're dude, go up and do a backflip and do twisty shit, I'll be like, you know what? I can't do it. I'm not going to lie. I cannot run up and do a backflip like that.

I cannot do it. No, he's a freak. John Dodson is a freak. But you shut it all down. You shut it all down. And you shut it all down not by running away, not by avoiding him, by engaging over and over again, but controlling the distance, controlling the position. Like you were constantly out of position for him.

I mean, he just couldn't find you. He couldn't find you. It was masterful. You are very knowledgeable in the sports where half the motherfuckers you were watching, they're all like, ah, ha. So boring, so boring. I wasn't bored for a second in that fight. I was like, goddamn, we were watching art.

We were watching a masterpiece. It was a masterpiece. I appreciate it. It's one of the best fights ever. I really believe, like, one of the best performances ever because I think Dodson is so fucking dangerous. Oh, yeah. He's so dangerous.

And I can tell the weird points were, like, when we're training and I'll just get hit so many times, so much. And I'm like, this is fucking stupid. I'm going to get knocked out if I fight like this. But then I believe in Matt's training and I believe what he says. And it worked out good. And I could tell there was some relief off of Matt's shoulder after that fight. Because we know how it can end like that.

And we know Dotton has the power for one shot. Once it lands, it's like. Well, he's knocked out TJ Dillshaw. Yeah. I mean, you watch that fight. God damn, he threw some fucking combinations in that fight. Yeah. When he knocked out Dillshaw to win the ultimate fighter at 135.

He was in position. He was at the angle as TJ was getting up to finish him off. And that's where it's like, Dotson's dangerous. He's very dangerous. A lot of people don't give him the credit he deserves. I mean, I give him all the credit he deserves. That's why after the fight I was like, dude, good job of being a father. If you weren't

the champ, he would be the champ. Yeah, absolutely. Or Joseph Benavidez. Or Benavidez, right. Or those two. And I think with Dotson going up to 135, I think it's a good thing for the young and upcoming contenders because I don't know. They probably could get through him, but from what I've seen and how I fought Dotson

and how he brings it, I can tell that he would be just like Joseph. He's beaten all the contenders. I also think that at 135, he'll probably be a bit more healthy. Yes, I totally agree. I think he cuts too much weight. I think that there's a lot of guys that just, they never fight. At their optimum, they're just so drained and dehydrated that they just always feel like flat when they compete. And I don't necessarily think that I've seen him flat at 125.

No. But I think he was even more dynamic at 35. I agree. Because, like you said, he you said, you're not drained. Right. He's a muscular dude. Yeah, he's a big dude. That's a lot of weight.

I think I maybe gave myself an inch. I think I got an inch on him. But he's way bigger physically than I am. Physically? Is that a word? I just made it up. Money, mass, corporation. We just copyrighted that 2015.

Physically. Put it in the books. Lineker would have been interesting if he could make that weight. Yes. But he just seems to be, like, very undisciplined. Very undisciplined. And that's the thing, too. He's not, like, a very big dude.

But once again, you're starting to see him. Just undisciplined. I remember when we were fighting UFC 191. And my wife's sitting there. And she goes, babe, isn't that Lineker over there? And I was like, yeah. So, Lineker was like, why the fuck is he eating pancakes? Wait until tomorrow.

He was eating pancakes the day before the wins? Oh, my God. He fought at 135, so he can do that. What a dummy. But he was eating. Hey, he fucking went out there and destroyed Cisco Rivera. They got an exchange, and obviously he won. That was a crazy fight.

Why the fuck did Rivera fight like that? I don't know. I just don't understand that fight. Like, Rivera's talented. He's a talented guy. Why the fuck did Rivera fight like that? I don't know. I just don't understand that fight. Like, Rivera's talented. He's a talented guy. He went three rounds, well, what, two rounds with Uriah Faber, mixing it up, keeping a distance. Until he got eye poked.

Until he got eye poked. And that's the thing. But you get rewarded for fights like that. You get rewarded for that. Oh, my God. That didn't make any sense. Why not do it? You got an extra $50,000.

I think it was also because Lineker was known as a knockout artist at 25. He's like, you come up to my weight class, I'm going to fuck you up. No, dude.

Nope. That fucking dude hits hard. Lineker hits hard. He hits hard. He's built weird. You're going to hit hard if you throw from the hips.

Yeah. The great example is Artem. Love the guy. Very good guy. But when I see him fight and I'm like- Artem Levin? Is that what you're talking about? The kickboxer of glory?

No, no, no, no, no. What are you talking about? Talking about Conor McGregor's work. Artem. Artem. An ultimate fighter. Oh, okay, okay. He fights here with the stands on his swings.

Of course you're going to hit fucking hard. Right. You're throwing from the fence. I'm like, okay, the perfect person to beat him is the guy who throws from the chamber who can wrestle and leg kick. That's the perfect person to beat. is the guy who throws from the chamber who can wrestle and leg kick. That's the perfect person to beat. Him versus Anthony Pettis. Anthony Pettis would tear him all day.

Oh, yeah. He'd kill him. Just because it's solid defense. He hits hard because you're throwing from your hips. Right. Well, he definitely hits hard. But it's sneaky because you don't see those punches coming. Absolutely.

It can be a problem for a lot of guys because as he's moving in, they're coming at weird angles. You can't predict them. And with the small gloves, they get in there and they find their home. get hit right here you can't block here you get knocked out but and that's where i'm like like uh john lenniker he hits hard but once he starts once those things come in he goes wham wham wham wham wham right so someone who's gonna be somebody to beat him is gonna be have to be very technical very very disciplined. Yeah. What is this?

Lewis Gritnot choked him out. So he kind of throws him a chamber. I don't know. I just think when you have style, if you want to see a sign to fight, okay, I'm going to put a brawler against a brawler. I'm going to put a brawler against a technician. People are going to think it's boring. It's like Rory McDonald. I think he's one of the greatest technicians at welterweight.

I agree. Very, he stays here, crosses distance, has a cure with the fan sting. He goes, at the end of the day, my job is to win this fight. I'm going to do it very technically and systematically. But the Robbie Lawler fight did turn out to be a brawl. Yes.

Robbie sort of forced it into a brawl. The second one or the first one? Yes, second one. See, the thing that I felt bad for, I didn't feel bad for Rory McDonald, but Rory is a softball. And Rory is orthodox, if I'm correct. And he kept circling into his power. Like he would circle. He would circle like this.

I'm like, dude, what are you doing? Circle to his right. You're not buying the correct real estate, my friend. You need to buy the real estate outside to get your punch line up. So each time they exchange exchange he won the better exchange which ended up being his downfall. But that's why I thought it was crazy how the judges had him winning the fight. Yeah, I don't understand that

either. I guess it was the round before the stoppage where he head kicked him. Oh, yeah. He had Robbie pretty hurt. Yeah. But god damn what a good fight that was. That's one of those fights where, you know, just you watch it and you go, wow, what a fight. But what damage those guys took.

I'm not going to lie. I was in the stands and I was, I think I was at that fight. And I was sitting there. Yeah, that was the Conor and Chad fight, right? He was winning tonight. I was sitting there and I was like, you know what? I truly hope they take care of him. Like I truly hope they get taken care of, especially Warren McDonald for all that damage.

Yeah. There's not enough money in the world for me to risk my brain damage. Like, yeah, I know I'm fighting right now. And they're like, well, why the fuck are you fighting? That's why, you know, Matt, he'll look at me. There was one time I just fucking brawled it out. I was like, I'm just going to fucking go. I'm just going to let my hands go.

I'm going to take shots, get shots, have vertigo. And Matt was like, what the fuck were you doing? was Ian McCall fight right the first team of call fight and that was like what are you doing I was like I wanted to stand it bang you know I want to do the whole thing he goes no no no he goes your talents are your gifted you can you can switch from aspects of mixed martial arts without without missing a beat that That is your gift. Your gift is be fast and not let people hit you. That's what you have.

You do it better than I do and you do it better than Brad does. So we need to harness that. And then when he told me that, I was like, fuck, you're right. And so that's what I've been doing ever since. And that's why you have not seen me yet. Obviously, the first Dotsa fight, I got fucked up. And I was was like all right let's fix this do you feel like you're still growing you still feel like you're still getting

better yep um the reason why i say that is because this is the first time out of my camps usually i'll i'll let myself i don't want to say let myself go i feel like i got fat between camps but this is the first time between uh camps I'm actually lifting heavy. I'm still learning and I'm maturing as an athlete and as a competitor. I think my last fight against Dotson was the first time I went into a fight and I was like,

okay, let's see what happens. I shoot. There was no part in the game plan to me pick his leg up and walk him to the cage and punch him and elbow him. We'd never trained that at all all or me doing this spinning back elbow and hitting him that stuff I dug up maybe two years ago that Matt's taught me and so Matt is still teaching me stuff I can use in my fights and I'm able to implement it in my my fighting style so each time when I look in a fight I go

okay I'm fighting a fighting this person I get in there and I'll feel the distance. I'll test it. And then I'll be like, okay, let me dig in my toolbox. Okay, this can take care of this. I use it and I try to apply it. If it doesn't work, okay, let me figure it out. One second. Dig in there and bring it back.

Oh, this is working. Oh, let me see. So that was just complete improvisation. Complete improvisation. And a skill that you hadn't really worked on in a long time. Yep. Wow, that's crazy to do that in a title fight

that's what shows you how comfortable you are too and that's me becoming more mature and trusting my skills like Matt says my biggest opponent is me

because he goes dude you can put people in the fucking matrix you realize that right and I was like really and he goes

yes and I was like you do it in here all the time you can do it just do it in a fight and that's when I was fighting he goes put him in the matrix put him in yes. And I was like, you do it in here all the time. You can do it. Just do it in a fight. And that's when I was fighting, um, he goes,

put him in the matrix, put him in the matrix. And I'm like, I, with them little ass gloves, I'm not comfortable doing it yet because you get knocked out. And then next, you know,

your paycheck's less. And it's like, oh great. Now I got to survive all this. So, um, I'm hoping one day I can get to that point to where you guys can see where it's like, now that's the fucking matrix.

Does it frustrate you when you look at what you're capable of doing, and you look at, I'm not the only one that thinks you're the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, but then you see other people that are fighting that don't have maybe the skill set that you have, that just get all this hype and all this attention, and more pay-per-view buys and do you look at that and go fuck what do i have to do here you know don't i'm not gonna lie there comes a point in time where you get pissed off about it's like not just me but i think people around me who believe in my skill set um but you can't you can't let that uh detour you off your goals like always make fun of people always make fun of myself I was like you know if I end up breaking Anderson Silva's record half the fucking

world won't even know who I am and I always call myself the redheaded stepchild from the UFC where it's like they're like if people in the data like they come to see Dan White like Dan White we're interested you know you know person in company you know you know can you tell me some of your great athletes and he'll be like oh you know we have a you know Anderson Silva Conor McGregor and all these guys like they were like who is Demetrius Johnson? Is that his name? They call him Mighty Mouse.

He has 13 consecutive title events. Why didn't you not mention him at all? I don't understand. And they'd be like, oh, him? Oh, yeah, yeah, him. So, I mean, I always make fun of myself. Like, you know, I'm the right-handed stepchild of the UFC because I don't get the exact same hype as other people, is totally fine i'm not out here looking for hype and all that

stuff i'm not here to try to prove that the skill set i bring into octagon is if you're going to go in a bar and you're going in a fight you want to bring my shit in there because you're going to fight and you're going to be able to beat this guy up and he's not going to be able to touch you you're going to walk out i'm like officer, Officer, I was not involved in that fight. Look at my face. Why are your knuckles bleeding, sir? They are not. I was cleaning up stuff.

So that's why I want to present. And it does not translate well over to the fans and all that stuff. But you finished fights. Like you knocked out Benavidez in the first round. You finished Horiguchi with one second to go in the last round of a fight you were dominating. You finished Dodson, not Dodson, Moraga, in the same situation, a fight where you were dominating. You still went for the finish

and finished him. You have exciting finishes. You're preaching the choir, my friend. Dude, I don't get it. I don't get it. And that's the thing, too. It's like, eventually, it's almost like eventually they have to hopefully hopefully they'll jump on board i guess you say hopefully but you know what you know if it doesn't happen you know what i'll keep on i'll keep doing my best and winning and and that's the thing too like each time and it could be my personality

like when i come into fights or like so demis johnson um uh uh uh what do you think about this fight i'm like you know i think my opponent's a great fight uh a great guy and you know whether They're like, so, Demetrius Johnson, what do you think about this fight? And I'm like, you know, I think my opponent's a great fight, a great guy. And, you know, whether I win or lose, the outcome does not change. I'm never attached to the outcome of my fights. And when I say that is that when I won against John Dotson, I wasn't out there like, oh, man, we're going to – oh, God, that was a great fight, man. Oh, you know, oh, hey, you're not my wife.

How you doing, baby? Hey, let me see you twerk. That's not how it goes. Or if I win see you twerk. That's not how it goes. Or if I win or if I lose, that's not how it goes. After I win my fights, I go home. I relax. I spend time with my wife, my children. And then I call up Sean Sherbert.

I was like, okay, what's next? So you're still you no matter what. No matter what. It doesn't get too high. It doesn't get too low. Exactly. Because at the end of the day, there's going to come a point in time I'm going to lose. There's going to come a point in time to where you're not going to call me the best fighter in the world.

It's reality. I mean, I hope you do. I honestly hope you do. Forever. Forever. You're 50. You're like, babe, make sure on my tombstone you put the greatest fighter ever, Demetri Johnson. But it's reality.

It's going to happen. There's going to be a better Demetrius Johnson maybe 10 or 15 years down the road. So for me, I keep that in my mind that it keeps me calm. It keeps me ground. It keeps me humble. That way when I go out in the fight and, you know, I'm not on this super high. And, you know, if I lose my title and I come back to Seattle and they're like, you got your ass whooped.

I was like, yeah, I did. I lost. It fucking happens, my Yeah, it's called sports competitiveness I don't know if that's a word or not, but I just made it up. Yes competitiveness is a word good good good good I don't know about that other one though. What was the other one? Physicality is a word Physically physically there it is. Hey see you're gonna use it to use it. You'll be like, Joe Rogan, what are you about to say? I mean, physically, what the hell did I just say? Physically, I feel like he dominated.

Exactly. If it was a physically contest. Yeah. Hey, you know what? So that just keeps me grounded. It keeps me humble. Well, that's a very good attitude. It's a very healthy attitude to take.

And I think when the highs are very high, the lows, you know, when you don't get those highs, the lows are devastating. Absolutely. I think you see it a lot. I try to learn from the champions of the past and even the present when they lose their belt. And I remember Carla Esparza, we were at a Welcome to the Show press conference. And I see her. She's holding the belt like this cause she just got it. And I'm sitting there and about to square us off.

And like the, the UFC belts heavy and they expect us to cure out everywhere. Right? I like, I see people like Daniel Cormier. He brings his boat around and shows it off. Tim Silver used to go to bars with it. Yeah,

exactly. Right. I met the press conference. I'm like, fuck this. I just throw my belt. And they're like, she's like, Oh my, I can't believe you did it.

I was like, honey, let me tell you something. The first chance that belt gets a chance to leave you is going to leave your ass. And sure enough, she lost the joint at J.J. And I was like, ugh, I should have said it to her. Well, that was a bad fight for her. Yeah. Because she won the title because she won the Ultimate Fighter. And I love the Ultimate Fighter.

It's a fun show. It's a great showcase for up and coming talent but the problem is there's just not enough talent yeah and so a lot of the people that you see fight on the Ultimate Fighter they really

shouldn't be there yeah I totally agree with you I watch some of those guys I'm like oh fucking Christ who let him on the show Dana or about I don't know man I'm like, oh, fucking Christ. Who let him on the show? Dana? I don't know, man. I'm not a promoter.

I'm the wrong guy for it. I mean, I guess I kind of am in a way when I do those countdown shows and I hype things up. I'm a hype man in a way. No, no, no. You're very knowledgeable in this sport. That's why I respect your insight on fights and even Matt Hume does and even Brad Kirchner does. I think you're not giving yourself enough praise, my friend. Listen, my job is pretty fucking easy. I just

watch shit and talk about it. I don't even have to be in shape. I don't have to get up early. Fights don't start until 4. I've done the UFC hungover on multiple occasions in the past. It's not hard. Well, you do an amazing job breaking into fights and

you're knowledgeable. It's very hard to find knowledgeable do an amazing job breaking the fight and you're knowledgeable it's very hard to find knowledgeable people in this sport who break it down and you're one of them and you have great charisma when you do it so when you bring up the perfect example about the ultimate fighter how the talent there isn't there like and that's the thing like it's it's becoming more of a show to where it's like this guy's's got hands. I was like, bro, you take that boy into a fucking actual, like legitimate fight. A guy who throws on the chamber, who can mix it up.

Right. You're, you're both going to get fucking sink real fast. That cash cow's going to go. He's exciting. Yes, absolutely. But mixed martial arts,

you think Bruce Lee was pushing the, the aspect of, um, being exciting and just getting awards. No, he was, he was trying to push that. I'll take two to give one, bro.

Yeah, exactly. He's going to use his technical ability to beat you and be finesse about it. Well, ultimately, the way I always describe MMA is that what it is is high-level problem-solving with dire physical consequences. Yep. And the best guys are guys like you that don't take on those physical consequences. You solve the problem and you do damage. Like at the end of the fight, Dodson was busted up. His face was all swollen.

You look fine. You solve it. Pretty good in a motherfucker, please? Yes, exactly. That's what he said. You solve the problem. I mean, it's a very complex problem and it's so difficult to do because it's improvisational. You're dealing with incredibly fast people, especially of your weight class.

You're dealing with the fastest people in all of MMA. And you're dealing with all these different possibilities. There's so many variables. There's takedowns and kicks and punches and elbows and clinches, and you don't know what he's gonna do while you're trying to do What you're gonna do you're trying to push the pace and you you got to cut angles You got to get the fuck away from him and you have to have all this knowledge in your head of what to do Oh, he's doing this that means that's coming next. I'm not gonna be there. Fuck that

It's like you have to have a fucking just gigantic it's like you have to have a fucking just gigantic database of knowledge it's it's it's it's it's not easy i'll tell you that right now so when you see these guys fight on tough and they're like i'm gonna go out there and i'm gonna bang like oh god you're like this is white belt shit this is who was it uh a guy he fought um he fought juicy jay and he was like and he went he ended up on uh the uc tonight show and he was sitting there and he ended up on the UC Tonight show. And he was sitting there, and he was like, yeah, you know, I don't like the lighter guys. They just don't do for me. They just do this.

And he goes, I like to bang that. And I was sitting there on my couch. I was like, whoa, my friend, you're going to have a very fucking short career. And a really weird end of your life. Yeah. When you don't know where your keys are. You don't know who your wife is. Exactly.

Whoa, is this my house? I'm not sure. Let me in. When you don't know where your keys are, you don't know who your wife is. Exactly. Is this my house? I'm not sure. Let me in. And you know what? At the end of the day, I would like, you know what?

You might bonus maybe 10 times. You might have, you know what? You might make more money than me at the end of the day just because you went out there and you sold shitload of tickets

and you got fight of the night every single night and all that stuff. But you know what? I want people to, you know, when I die and they look,

they dig up, you know, old DVD tapes and they see, they dig up, you know, old DVD tapes. And they see, they stumble across me and they see me moving. I was like, oh, I want them to be able to sit there. I'm like, holy shit, this guy's moving fast. He's on the other side of the opponent. He's on the other side of the shoulder and he's landing combinations. Holy shit, he can wrestle too?

Did he just throw a fucking armbar? I'm like, who is this person? What was his background like? You look at Matt Hume and you try to find out who who was Matt Hume's coach who was Matt Hume's coach I don't know I honestly don't know I'm a Matt Hume fan I don't even know who's coach exactly and that's that I don't even know who I know one of his coaches but you know he had he's great wrestler he has a very long as st. kickboxing know, and when you look at that stuff and you look how good he fought, when he fought, not Pat Militich, what's the guy?

Josh Burnett's coach now. Eric Paulson? Eric Paulson, that fight. And Matt Hume, self-consciously, he tells us all the time, he goes, I had to cut him. I knew he was not going to stop because I hit him so hard that i knew self-conscious i needed to cut this man to have this man stop coming at me and sure enough he did the knee cut him right there and they're like oh back in the day they cut when there was blood because

they didn't have you know control of all the uh athletic commission athletic commission and the diseases and stuff and they're like oh the fight's done and i was like good he's finished and i want people to look back at my in my be like, this guy was fucking good. He can do it all. And so when he said that, when he goes, I just don't like the little guys. They just don't do it. I'm like, whatever, bro. Well, people like to say stupid shit like that, but there's also people that are just dumb.

There's people that are like, you know, I don't like fine cuisine. I like McDonald's. There's a lot of people that love McDonald's fries. It's my favorite food, bro. I like fucking Big Macs and fries. I like to hit my head against the wall. There's just going to be, always going to be people that have shitty taste. Yep, absolutely.

I'm like, you, my friend, have shitty taste. That's what you have. I mean, it's true. I mean, if you can't appreciate a virtuoso at the most dangerous sport, you can't appreciate that. Because, you know, you just want guys to stand and bang. That's ridiculous. And don't get me wrong. You can't appreciate that because, you know, you just want guys to stand and bang. That's ridiculous. And don't get me wrong, I can bang.

Like, if I needed to bang and fight and drag it out, I can absolutely do that. Am I going to appreciate it the next day? Absolutely not because I've done it and I'm like,

what day is it, babe? No, no, no. It never got that worse. I should have never said that. But there's times where I'm like, you know, I'm like, babe,

can you come wash my ass? I can like, you know, I'm like, babe, can you come wash my ass? I can't, you know, because I've had surgery multiple times on my right hand. I've had, you know, labrum surgery. And that's just from wearing a tear and hitting the opponent the wrong way and hitting him on the skull. It sucks. It sucks to be in a cast. Like, I remember Cub Swanson. I remember he told me that he's broken his jaw multiple times.

And after one of his, I think it was a freaking eager fight. Max Holloway, he lost.'s broken his jaw multiple times Yeah, and after when he's I think was a freaking out of the way He lost he broke his jaw in that fight to practice Bonnet I remember the free kicker fight and he was like, you know, I wasn't even going out when he I mean they choke in the end I was like, you know what? I had a broken jaw before I don't want it again So I fucking tapped and I was like dude kudos to you my friend You know, I have to worry about having your jaw wired shut for six months because you don't want to tap. I think until you finished Horiguchi, that was the latest stoppage by submission ever. Yep.

Yeah, I think. But you got. I mean, how the fuck is anybody going to beat yours? That's one second. Unless it goes six rounds. I'm not going to lie. Each time it goes five fives and they're like. Oh, and I hear the clapping.

I hear people and they start running. I'm like, no. Don't you do it, you no no don't tie it don't tie them i'm like that was a great fight right it's a good fight what you know when you see boxing and boxing which is not nearly as exhausting as mma but they fight three minutes yep and then and then they fight five minutes like what do you think about that it's definitely different um because we have a boxer in our gym, and he just likes boxing. I'm like, dude, you should come to mixed martial arts. Your hands are that good, but he can't wrestle or anything like that.

The stamina he has to throw so many punches when we spar, it's incredible. But when he hits me, it's totally different because when I hit him, I'm hitting him with my body instead of him just like pop, pop, pop, pop. It's not the same. So he's an amateur boxer? He's an amateur boxer. So he's trying to score. I mean, he's trying to finish, but when I hit, I'm hitting with my body.

I'm already did that sports science like who hits harder, a boxer or an MMA fighter to regenerate from our legs. They are too, but we're trying to – it's just different. So when I'm sparring him, I'm sparring him like a mixed martial artist. Like I'm moving my legs, I'm switching, I'm about to throw a kick, I'm loading my hips up. It's hard for me to break that habit because I'm entrained that way. Like when I came into mixed martial arts, it wasn't like, hey, you're going to learn how to box.

Hi, I'm your boxing coach. Hey, hey, Joey Garcia. I'm your jiu-jitsu coach. Hey, I'm, you know, Silva. Or, hey, I'm your Muay Thai coach. It was like, I'm Matt Hume um well you got real lucky in that regard real lucky yeah there's not a lot of guys out there that are qualified to do that that all-encompassing game plan guy yeah and so now when I do my boxing

sparring it's harder for me to do it because I can do it and I and I can get the upper edge but it's like I'm gonna fucking tired because we're boxing and I'm just throwing punches. I need to throw some kicks. Right. To mix it up. To mix it up. I need to get you in my clinch, too. Right. And so it's hard.

But, I mean, three rounds, I mean, three minute, how many rounds did they go? Twelve rounds? In a world title fight. World title fight. That's a lot of rounds. It is. It's a lot of rounds. It is definitely a lot of rounds.

But it's interesting that they only fight three minutes, and it's not nearly as tiring as MMA. Yeah, you see guys come out of the corner. Floyd would sit down, and he goes, I love you, Dad. Remember everything you taught me. He's the best at not getting hit ever in the history of boxing. That's the name of the game in mixed martial arts, too. Hit and not to be hit. Submit somebody and not to be submitted.

When somebody's idea was like, I need to get fucking hit to be exciting. Well, I think it came from the ultimate fighter. It came from Forrest Griffin and Stefan Bonner. That fucking fight was awesome. Awesome. But not for either one of those guys. Yeah. I mean, Forrest is broken up right now. His body's a mess.

He had a wild, crazy, exciting career, but ultimately you can't use your body like a battering ram. If you have a car and it's an awesome race car, but you want to enter a demolition derby with it, that fucking car's not going to last. No, it's not. There's no way around it. There's no way around it.

I think a lot of people are seeing the Ultimate Fighter and they're getting that view of this is what. Somebody the other day said the alternate fighter is degressing the sport. And I was like, I'm not going to give you his name. Pass that bottle opener, man. Thank you. He said that the alternate fighter is degressing. One of the one of these? I haven't even finished this.

We're such deep thought and conversation. I can't even. Extremely deep. But he said the Ultimate Fighter is degressing the sport. And I was like, really? I was like. Is that a word? Degress?

I'm not sure that's a word. It's degressing. It's degressing, okay? Degressing? Is that a word? It's going behind. Yes, it's a goddamn word. Regressing.

Okay. Regressing. Is degressing a word? Jimmyegressing? Is that a word? It's going behind. Yes, it's a goddamn word. Regressing. Okay. Regressing. Is degressing a word? Jimmy, look that shit up. Google it, my friend. Degress? Degress? Well, the sport is-

I understand exactly what you're saying. Well, then there you go. I'm sorry. It is a word then, damn it. Well, physicality-wise, no. Physically- Degression. Degression is a word.

Okay. Well, I just do a little mighty spice into it. I get it. Mighty spice. It'segression. Degression is a word. Okay. Well, I just do a little mighty spice into it. I get it. Mighty spice. It's digression. It's going backwards. Right. And people are like,

and I said, and I was all ears. I was like, explain yourself. Like, what makes you say that? And he goes, well,

you think people are being on national television and on ultimate fighter, and they're fighting to get a contract and they have holes in their game and they're not fixing those holes before going into the house instead of if if i that was one of the things i would have a hard time coaching with a fighter because i'll look at i'll you know dissect a person i'm like and i'll be like okay let me see you fight me i'm gonna go with you and i'm like okay you have a hole here a hole here so are you looking just to fight to make

two paychecks three three paychecks? If so, then I guess you're in the right area. But if you're looking to be a world champion, if you're looking to be able to provide for your family, I mean, I always tell you all the time, when I was in the UFC, when I fought for the world championship at 135, I was still working a fucking full-time job. And they're like, you're fighting for a world championship.

You shouldn't be working. I was like, yeah, because I've lost a fight. So now I made, what, $14,000. Is that what you made to fight for the world title at 135? Yes. Well, it's all public record. God damn. That's depressing.

So that's why I was still working, even when I fought Kiyomoto. I mean, I made my money. Then I was like, okay, every single fight I had in UFC up to the Dominic Cruz fight, when I broke my leg in Miguel Torres, I was like, I was in Vegas.

It was almost like a vacation for me. You know, when Matt will call me and goes, hey, the UFC wants to know if you want to fight

Kiyama Moto. I was like, I'll be like, can I call you right back? I need to call work to see if I can get the day off, please.

Wow. And I will call my boss, Pete Bohacke. ufc called they want to know what was your job what were you doing for a living i work in a paper mill uh construction so we built uh basically sonic tubes so um and we also built v boards so if this uh microphone came to you and it was in protection um it would be like a v board that would protect it and that's what i was a guy who made it and let's say you needed two and a half inches or three inches four inches five inches whatever i would take it do the math put it in the computer and sit there and it would go and i'll go one two three four okay there's ten there we go and do that all day and then when i

and now i have my phone on me and matt will call me goes hey the ufc wants to know if you want to fight i'm like i'll run into the bathroom and like, hey, what's up, man? And he goes, hey, you know, the UFC wants you to fight Kiyomoto on February 5th, my debut in the UFC, 2011. I said, hey, let me see if I can day off and work. I'll go into my office and I'll say, hey, Pete, what's going on? He goes, what's up, DJ? And I'm like, hey, do you think I can have a week off to go fight in Vegas?

He goes, yeah, let me see if I can work it out. And then I'm like, all right see if i can work it out and then like all right now i'll come out hey i don't don't say yes i don't i don't know yet okay and he goes all right well just let me know okay and then sure enough my boss goes yeah you get a week off and i was like hey i can go he goes all right i'll let sean show me know you can fight that's how it was are you still friends with your boss yeah yeah we still hang out he must be happy oh yeah he's now well he said he said he would fire me before i quit uh fighting and doing a real job because in reality that's what's paying my fucking bills that check was coming

every single week it was keeping the lights on fighting was not so that's why i tell kids all the time like man i would be just like it i was like no my friend be better than me go to college get education don't try to put yourself in a boat to where this is all you have to do you need to have you know now it's worked out for me where i'm starting to you know branch all you have to do. You need to have, you know, now it's worked out for me where I'm starting to, you know, branch out and try to do other things. But that's how the reality was. And so that's why I worked full time. Well, a lot of people believe that if you have a safety net,

you will fall. A lot of people think that it's best to not have anything to back up on. No, no, no. You need to fucking safety net in this sport. Even in football. Right. You see all the time, you know?

Like, let's take a good example. Colin Kaepernick. He started out amazing. At one point in time, him and Russell were considered... I don't know who he is. Colin Kaepernick, he's the San Francisco 49ers quarterback. Okay. Very fast.

At one point in time in his career, he was up... He was talked about the greats with Russell Wilson. You know who that is, right? I don't know anybody. don't know anybody okay well the only way i know of a football player is if they get arrested okay well unfortunately so that's totally fine or they become like so famous like they they somehow or another surpass the sport they you know you know what i mean so a good example uh they have to eclipse the sport. They have to be like, you have to be like an Allen Iverson for me to know who you are. Or Kobe Bryant. Damn, it's so hard to use it.

So basically this guy, he was really good at one point in his career. He was fucking killing it, running fast, outrunning people trying to get him down. And then now he's not doing as well. And so let's say he made his money in the NFL. And let's say he's done. They cut him. You're done. And he didn't have a college education.

And he wasn't smart with his money. He would basically become a bum if he wasn't smart with his money. So that's why I always tell people it's good to come into mixed martial arts with a great college education or something. Because nine out of ten times, it might not work out for you right and that's why i just tell people that like people they get discouraged and my my my you know promoters i'm like dude you can't you need to say this to you that you want to be like demetri johnson you want to fight like me absolutely but you want to make sure you have a college education it's something to fall back on because and that's what matt told me when i lost the title domino

cruci he was like i think it might be time for you to go to school get an education and I said man I'm gonna tell you straight up bro I'll fucking die in a warehouse if I go back to school and he goes alright as long as we're clear with that because you'll die in a warehouse if you go back to school no I'd rather die in a warehouse than go back to school because school wasn't my

thing I just didn't like school I believe in that if I put 10 years in this job that i should be well compensated and you can spend four or five years in a college education get your college degree and you go out and try to find a job and they're like no you're not you're not uh i like the starbucks effect the starbucks thing and have you heard it no so so shitty coffee and push out local shops no no no no, no, no, no, no. So, it's like if me and you both went to a Starbucks and if me and you applied for a job and you're like, I'm Joe Rogan.

I had 15 years as a barista. I know how to make coffee from your cappuccino to triple shop or whatever. And I'm like, I have no coffee experience whatsoever. They're like, I'm going to take you to Mitch Johnson. And people are like, why do you take Joe Rogan? He has 15 years. And it's like, well,'t you take Joe Rogan? He has 15 years. And it's like, well, I had to break his fucking bad habits.

He's not making Starbucks coffee. He's not making Starbucks coffee the way I want it to taste. What fucking habits are you going to have to break? I'm not talking about brain surgery here, people. Jesus Christ. Make me a fucking latte, you freak. So, but that's the Starbucks effect.

And I believe in that. I believe that if a person does his, puts his time in that, he should be well compensated to where that's not how it is in the world nowadays. I see what you're saying. So, um, for you, the idea of going to school and

putting in all that effort without a definite reward just wasn't exciting. At my time and day, yes. Right, but what if there was a something that you wanted to do that you had to get educated in like say if you wanted to be a journalist or for instance or engineer yeah where you literally had to get an education yeah if it was the point in time and it seemed interested to me then i would have done it but like i went to school and when i was in um school, I was doing architectural drawing.

I drew up floor plans. If I see a floor plan, I can see the foundation and the J plate and all that stuff. I was good. You know what my final was for that class? I built a strip club. We call it Chicken Strips, my friend. Chicken Strips? Chicken Strips.

Why Chicken Strips? You get all the Chicken Strips you want and get lat dance at the same time. So free Chicken Strips? No, no, no. Shit ain't free. You got to pay for that. Okay, you pay for the Chicken Strips, but all you can eat. You come in there, you you get free chicken strips? No, no, no. Shit ain't free. You gotta pay for that. Okay, you pay for the chicken strips, but all you can eat... You come in there, you pay, you know, all you can eat chicken strips. And I had a strip club. I had the

poles right there. Is that its own slaughterhouse connected to it where you get your chicken? No. That's the next move. That was my thing. That was my kind of like my niche. I loved drawing up floor plans. For strip clubs? No, that was my thing. That was kind of like my niche. I loved drawing up floor plans. For strip clubs.

No, that was the final. It was going to be trickster. I understand. If I make millions of dollars, if Conor McGregor, he might want to invest in this. It could be blow the roof off with it. What year was this? This was in 2005. I think today you probably wouldn't be able to do that in college because the social justice warriors would come down on you for wanting to subjugate women in your horrible establishment.

Oh, the patriarchy continues. Demetrius Johnson wants to keep women prisoner. No, no, no, no. They get to go home. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Show your pussy all day for daddy and then you can go home. I see what's up.

I see how you work it. It was very comfortable, okay? It was a comfortable environment with free chicken or a lot of chicken. Absolutely. So what's the piece of paper, man? What do you got here? All right, here we go. So obviously one of the new things I've been doing is I stream on Twitch now.

You stream your video games, right? You used to have a contract with Xbox One until Reebok came along and fucked everything up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, that was going on. Obviously, then the Reebok deal came in, so we, obviously, Xbox, they didn't want to be part of, you know, they wanted that prime spot

on pay-per-view, or even Fox. They actually preferred Fox over pay-per-view because Fox is way more views. Millions of people. Millions of people. So when that came in, they're like there like you know my buddy was like I think

this comes across or my friend I was like dude I totally understand so that's that's when they left but I'm still cool the guy I actually just talked to him he's actually me down here tonight possibly so did you see the latest Reebok fuck up t-shirts and they wrote Anthony Pettis his nickname as the mauler are you you serious? Yes I swear to God it feels like someone inside a Reebok is trying to sabotage the company It's so retarded the mistakes are so frequent and so bad the misspellings of the names over and over and over again It's like do you have a single person that's paying attention to that?

There's a lot of people what I understand they could have one person like your job is to make sure before the product goes out you check the fucking who the fuck is the guy that said yes to any of those shirts how about that guy who's that guy who's that guy that looked at those kids who's the guy that told them they should wear white shorts do you know there's blood and dirt and all kinds of shit and hey I saw I rocked the black my friend black that's a good move yeah it's very good it is um but the whole thing so yeah that happened with the shitty design i mean all the above right it happens god damn it um but then when it came to uh the xbox deal that kind of fell out and then the reblock deal came and so now that i'm in i feel like i'm in this point in my career to where

people are like man you should you should make your shirt you should do this so right i like that shirt is that a mighty mouse shirt this is the first mighty mouse shirt i've ever done in my whole life that's dope i like it can i get one of them bitches in a large absolutely or an xl they're in production right now so we'll get it we'll take care of you um but now i feel like i'm in a point in my career to where a lot of people say oh he's boring um he doesn't let it open but open himself up to the fans. So I was like, you know what? All right. I started streaming a couple times on Twitch,

and then things went well with Twitch. And so now when people are like, oh, you don't open up your sub-fans, I'm like, bro, I post on Twitter. Will you come ask me any fucking question you want live on Twitch? You can make money on Twitch, right? Absolutely, you can. If you get enough subscribers and you get enough followers. What is your Twitch handle so we can get you some subscribers?

My Twitch handle is MightyMouseUFC125. Pretty simple. Yeah, pretty simple. So that's it. But if you don't know how to do it, it's www.twitch.tv slash MightyMouseUFC125. So that's kind of like my side gig that I like to do, interact with my fans. Because I've always played video games in between training sessions. Lead up to Dots and Fight, second Dots and Fight.

What's your game? What do you play? I play all types of shit. I play Dark Souls 2. I play Dota 2. I play Dota? Dota 2. It's a MOBA.

It's a Multi Online Battle Arena. Oh, Christ. It's fucking weird. Because when I found Twitch, I was rocking my son to sleep and I was like, this is good. And I was like,

I want to watch TV. I want to watch video games. And I started reading and I was like, I can watch video games while I'm rocking my son to sleep. And I'm like, okay. Now I start watching people

play video games and that's how I fell into it. It's oddly enjoyable watching people play video games. You know what? I'm not going to lie. It is. It is.

It is. I used to watch people play Quake all the time. I loved it. Yeah, you see? I mean, I think it's a taste. You have. It is. It is. I used to watch people play Quake all the time. I loved it. Yeah, you see? I mean, I think it's a taste. You have to have a taste for it. Yes.

But this is from the Mighty Squad. My boys, the Mighty Squad. Okay. My subscribers, I like to give them perks to be able to ask the wonderful Joe Rogan certain questions. So we already kind of hit on this already, but the first one was thoughts on the IV ban. You gave your perspective of it already. I don't like it, but I don't like people cutting too much weight either.

You know, I don't like either one. I think you should be able to fight at your own weight. I feel like, what do you weigh now? I weigh 141. What do you weigh when you're in perfect shape? 141. Okay. I think that's what you should fight at.

And I think everybody should fight at the weight that they're in perfect shape. I think the weight cut is contrary to what MMA and martial arts should be about in the first place. It shouldn't be about having this. It's like legal cheating. It's really what it is. It's like you're pretending you're oh yeah 155 pounds when you're really 175 yep absolutely it really is like cheating i don't like it i think it's dangerous i think it's bad and i also think it's stupid because everyone's doing it that's what

makes it stupid because like if you were the only one if you really weighed 175 you were cutting down to 155 like and everybody else was just a natural 155 or well ho you'd have a crazy advantage because you get to balloon up to 175 but fucking everybody's doing it yeah so there's zero advantage yeah everybody's just weakening themselves the day before they fight in a fucking cage yep to me that is so counterintuitive and so stupid but i don't know how to stop it at this point in time i literally don't i think you can i think the only way to stop it at this point in time. I literally don't. I don't think you can. I think the only way to stop it is to tell fighters, tell everyone to get in shape and to have a massive summit.

And you have a massive summit, and you have everybody, have all the fighters, you gotta pay them to do this too, by the way. You should fucking pay them to do this. Get everybody in shape, give them a paycheck, say, I want you guys to all come to Vegas, we're gonna measure your water, we're gonna measure your body fat, we going to measure your body fat.

We're going to measure your actual weight. And champions, we're going to give you a pass. We're going to give every champion a pass. But this is the pass. You are still the world title. Say you're the world title holder at 125. If you weigh 141, you still will go into that fight as the world flyweight champion. And you will compete against people who are

also naturally at that weight class and i assume it'd be everybody in that weight class i assume it'll be guys like lineker and ian mccall and there'll be a lot of guys that are very similar to you when they're at their optimum weight class you know obviously between five and six pounds or whatever the hell the difference is and then make the weight classes like that and take all these guys and whoever it is, like Weidman. Weidman apparently is getting down in the 190s now. That's what I do. Eight weeks out, no booze. Cleaned out, no boozing, cleaned up his diet, and he's been really light for this fight.

Apparently he cut out boozing at 93, 194, which is really crazy for a guy that has been well over 200 pounds. And I think that if this was done and done correctly where you really monitored people, made sure there was no cheating, and say, look, Tyron Woodley, this is the weight you should be fighting at. Matt Brown, this is the weight you should be fighting at. And much more weight classes. Much more. And I think they did that with high school

wrestling because they do the hydration test cut. And I think another thing they could do is you know what you weigh in and you fight in the same

day. The problem with that though is that guys are still going to cheat. They're still going to cut weight. They're going to get

that ass whooped and then they're going to find out. They're going to die. Well I was going to say that's their fucking fault. You know what it's

simple. It's simple. It's simple. It's like when someone's like, oh, I didn't make it. I was like, dude, as a fighter, we have two jobs. Fucking make weight and fight. If you can't do one of them, then you shouldn't be able to do the second one. So that's why I'm like, I agree with you. I think if they did the hydration test and like, but I think a lot of people, if there

was no money on the line, if you were still going to get paid, I think they would be more excited for that. Yeah. I think that it's more excited for that. Yeah. I think that it's really counterintuitive to performance. I think when you're asking guys to fight at their best, the idea of dehydrating the shit out of yourself the day before the fight. Like, Conor, before you fought Chad Mendes, he looked like an AIDS patient. Oh, yeah.

He looked like a guy who had been on a ship floating in the ocean for a month, just eating his own toenails. It was fucking horrible. He looked terrible. I think that the best way to accomplish that would be to, you know, like they have this UFC campus that they're building. They need to have a comprehensive approach to stopping weight cutting in a sport. And I think one of the best ways to do that is to give guys a lot more options.

And Dana doesn't want to do that. He thinks the amount of champions they have is enough, but I wholeheartedly disagree with that. Well, I think they're going to come in more times of how many pay-per-views they're going to sell, the money-wise, and all that stuff. Fuck, man. The pay-per-views are going to be good if the fights are good. Oh, that's true.

Yeah, that's right. When fights are good, pay-per-views are good. But people like watching fights. They don't give a fuck if there's, oh, it's true. Yeah, that's right. When fights are good, pay-per-views are good. But people like watching fights. They don't give a fuck if there's, oh, it was all better when you had eight champions. Just shut the fuck up. It's good when there's fights. The fights are good. It doesn't matter what weight class.

When you have 85 to 205, you've got a fucking problem. When you have 205 to 265, you've got a giant problem. Those are two giant problems right there. 20 fucking pounds is 20 T-bone steaks. Think about 20 T-bone steaks. That's the difference between you and the next guy. Whether you shrivel it out of your body

or whether you pack it on your body. That's crazy. It's crazy. This should be every 10 pounds minimum. Minimum. Is that how it is in boxing? More. Seven. Like 47 to 54. So there's there. And then there's 54 to 60.

That's another six. There's 60 to 68. That's eight. Yeah. You know? They don't seem to have a problem making money. 68 to 75. That's seven.

I mean, there's a lot of fucking weight classes in boxing, man. Well, if that happened, I'd be a fucking two-time champ because I would go up and fight at like 130, what, 137 or 138. Yeah. No, no, no. And that would be healthy. 131, 132. And they would weigh you, they would check you, you would be healthy. And I think there

can be a way to cut it out of the sport, but I think extreme weight cutting was brought into the sport by wrestling. And wrestling has figured out how to cut it down substantially. I think MMA should try to do the same. Yeah, wrestling, I don't even fucking play it. I remember one of my buddies, he was in high school, and he goes,

I'm doing my hydration test. I'm going to super hydrate, and I'm going to cut myself. And he went to the doctor, and they're like, nope, go back home and fucking come in hydrated, and we'll let you know. Then he came in, and they tested him. They're like, okay, you can lose three pounds, and then you can lose. Then you have to wrestle up a different weight class at the new year because you always get a pound allowance at the new year because they take

in consideration of uh the holidays but right i like your insight i agree with you all right second question how long do you see yourself commentating uh for the ufc i don't know i don't know i don't know my contract's up in aug. I might leave in August. Oh, shit. It's possible. I like doing shit that scares me. He's awesome. He goes, I'm your fucking friend. I'm kind of going to kill me right now. No, I mean, I like doing stuff. I like taking chances in that.

I like walking away from things. I like doing that. I like experiencing new things. I think you open up new doors. Your mind starts firing a different way. I'm not a big fan of doing the same shit over and over and over again. Like when I do stand-up comedy, I have to go to different places. I have the comedy store that's like my main spot, but I like to go to like weird spots.

I like to do like, I'll do a weird open mic night in the middle of fucking nowhere. I think it's really important. I like to go to new places. I like to travel. I like to go to new places. I like to travel. I like to just get in my car and drive places. Just get out of my car and walk around and check out places. I think you've got to experience different things in life, and I like to plan those things out.

I've been doing the UFC for a long time. I will never stop being a UFC fan. That's not going to happen. I love the sport. But there's probably going to come a time where I don't do commentary anymore. And it might be sooner than later. Or I might not. I mean, August might roll around and I might say, you know what, man?

I fucking love this. Let's just keep doing this. But I might not too. You might not show up to UFC 194. You might be like, fuck it, babe. I'm staying home. Definitely that's not going to happen. I'm going to be there for that 100%.

I love it, man. It's not that I don't love it. It's just that I like doing a lot of other shit, too. Yeah, absolutely. I probably have something wrong with me. I probably have some OCD or ADD or something. If I was a kid, they'd probably put me on some shit. But I think that I just like experiencing different things.

I'm constantly trying to absorb new information. I'm always watching documentaries and reading books and reading things. I like new stuff all the time. So I don't think that my love for MMA will ever die off. But it's very possible that I won't want to do it as a career sometime in the future. All right. Okay. That's a good-ass answer.

All right. Third one. What is your favorite memory in the UFC? I don't want to do it as a career sometime in the future. All right. Okay, that's a good-ass answer. All right, third one. What is your favorite memory in the UFC? I don't have one. I definitely don't have one. I have too many awesome memories. There's too many. To be able to do that for the past 13, yeah, I guess 13 years, it's been amazing. It's a great job, man.

It's incredible to go there and watch the all-time best combat sports athletes in the world in mixed martial arts compete and to be right there for most of the best fights ever and to call them you know i mean i'm extremely honored so i don't have any one perfect memory i just have a lot of great ones. Okay. All right. What is your favorite MMA fight to call? What has been your best MMA fight to call when you?

Again, I don't think I have one. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to ask that fucking question. But it's all right. I just don't think I have one. There's been some amazing ones, man, like Dan Henderson versus Shogun. But that's for all the wrong reasons he's beating the fuck out of each other

where it's like your fight against Dodson was like for all the right reasons you know I think I like both of those kinds of fights if I'm gonna be they look they're gonna do that shit whether I'm there or not yeah you know I'm not the dad I'm not the boss I'm not the fucking king of the world. They're going to do it. I can't stop them. Like if some asshole wants to jump over the Grand Canyon in his fucking dirt bike, and I'm there, I'm going to watch. I'm not going to go, I'm out of here.

This is stupid. I'm going to go, let me see if this dude lands on his head. I'm going to watch. I don't necessarily. You all sit in the car where you're like, don't you see it? I don't want to hear the crunch of his skull hitting an overhang, you know, when he misses the third flip. But I don't, you know, I can't stop someone from fighting like Chico Rivera and John Lineker. Yeah.

Yeah, when Francisco Rivera fought John Lineker and those guys went to a part of me was because I really like Francisco I wanted to go what the fuck are you don't do that man don't do that move kick his legs yeah you know throw combinations catch him with his hands down winging from the hips don't stand right in front of him and do his shit but the other part of me goes oh shit this is crazy I mean part of me goes, oh, shit. This is crazy. I mean, part of me loves it. Part of me loves it. And part of me, the part who appreciates an artist like yourself, I don't like it. Because I don't want more people to emulate that. Because I don't want to see more people all fucked up.

Yeah, absolutely. All right. Faber versus TJ Dillshaw. Faber versus TJ Dillshaw. Man, there's a lot of emotions involved in those two fights, huh? I don't know. I have very, I'm very torn on that. I like both of those guys.

But I'm a big fan of loyalty. And I do not like when someone just gets up and leaves a camp that has been so good to them like alpha male has been but I also I also feel like with a guy like TJ he had this deep connection to Dwayne Ludwig yeah and Dwayne Ludwig has done some incredible shit for his career without a doubt no doubt about it and I think Dwayne I've worked with Dwayne Ludwig has done some incredible shit for his career without a doubt no doubt about it And I think Dwayne I've worked with Dwayne before and I've watched Dwayne train fight. I watched Dwayne Dwayne train TJ I've watched him work with Brendan Shaw He's held paths for me and and gone over his philosophy because I was like well tell me what you teach guys

How do you do this? How do you set things up? and i'm very impressed with his he's completely fucking crazy yeah but in the best way for a trainer because he's obsessed like the day that tj fought baral i had lunch with duane and it was hilarious because it was me and a bunch of my friends we're all sitting down in um i don't know what's mgm or mandalay bay whichever one but we're all sitting down having lunch and uh tj didn't give, and Dwayne didn't give a fuck who else was at the table. All he was like was, basically, what's going to happen is this fight, this way is going to go down. He's like, Braw always has a tendency to lean to his left. As soon as he leans to his left, TJ's not going to be there.

He's going to be to the right. The overhand right is going to be the beginning of this fight. And he's rattling off things. I'm trying to keep up with him. I'm drinking coffee just to try to keep up with his words. But he's obsessed. He's obsessed with making guys better. And I think TJ recognizes that.

And I think that personality-wise, Dwayne and Faber just did not, it just clashed. It didn't work out. Depends. I mean, I don't know. I like Uriah a lot. I think Uriah is awesome.

I love him as a person. And I like Dwayah a lot. I think Uriah is awesome. I love him as a person. And I like Dwayne a lot. So I don't know who the fuck is right and who the fuck is wrong. I literally have no idea, right? So I don't know what really went down. But I know it didn't work out. But I know that for Danny Castillo and I know for TJ, having Dwayne coach them has been a huge benefit.

I don't like that TJ took off, but I don't know the specifics. And I also don't know what MusclePharm is offering them. MusclePharm, I don't understand MusclePharm. I don't either. This is what I don't understand. Those fucking dudes, if you look at the financial reports, those guys are hemorrhaging money. They're hemorrhaging money.

So I don't, I'm not sure what's going on there. It might be some rich dude like that Dynamic Fastener guy that was like sponsoring everybody. It might be some dude who owns MusclePharm that just loves MMA. I mean, maybe their products are awesome and they just like, they really believe in them and they're building up the company and this is part of their strategy. I don't know. But they're throwing a lot of fucking money at a lot of really good fighters. They got Matt Browns over there

now. I saw that. He just moved the whole family out there. Yep. And I hope they don't go under. You know, because when it, you know, we've looked because I'm a part owner of Onnit. So we've looked at the Muscle Farm business model and we're like, um... Not fucking having it. What the fuck is going

on here? I mean, maybe we're not seeing something. Yeah. I mean, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's some revenue that we're not aware of. But as it's been explained to me, they've made a – let's just put it this way in a positive spin. They've made a significant investment in that gym, a significant investment in MMA, and a significant investment in their company that I don't know necessarily whether or not it's been profitable yet. I'm obviously talking out of my ass because I'm not a financial guy. But I like what they're doing in terms of

building this giant team, in terms of putting together this world-class facility. I mean, their facility is super impressive. I mean, I've seen the gym that they put together. It's fucking amazing, man. It's awesome. I have a dream of doing something like that someday. I think that would be incredible. If I do ever leave commentating for the UFC, one of the things

fucking for sure I want to do is open up a big gym with guys like Eddie Bravo and get in some, you know, great striking coaches and, you know, and just do it for the enjoyment of the sport. You're all there in the UFC. You're like, all right, come on champ. All right, come on. There you go. There you go. You're all supporting people. See, I don't, I, maybe, but I doubt it. I will be there in the UFC. You're like, all right, come on, champ. All right, come on. There you go. There you go. You're all supporting people. See, I don't. Maybe, but I doubt it. I will be watching from the sidelines.

You know, that's one of the hardest things for me is to commentate on people that I like. Yeah. Like Ronda. Ronda's a friend of mine. Yeah. And Ronda, when she got fucked up by Holly, you know, I commentated that fight just like I would people I don't even know. You're doing your job.

But I do know her, you know, and I like her a lot. And when she got head kicked, I was like, cool. Damn. Your face afterwards, I was like, I got to stop fucking that. Well, you know what the best part about that was filmed by John Wayne Parr, who is a multiple-time world Muay Thai champion. He's a ten-time world Muay Thai champion. He's a good buddy of mine who's with his young daughter who's also a fighter his young daughter's a fighter and she's a huge ronda fan and i not

only did i get them tickets i i pulled them from their seats and had them sit behind me in the production seats so they were like i'm so sorry right there so when when she got head kicked i turned to look at john and john's got his his iPhone off on my, oh. And that video has got, like, fucking millions of hits now because it's so crazy to watch that reaction right after that kick. But that was a hard one, man, because I care about her a lot. And I also don't agree with a lot of, like, her training and their coaching and all that stuff. Like, if I, I mean, who knows when the dust settles?

Yeah. I would tell her to go to Matt Hume. There's two people I'll tell her to go to Matt Hume or Farasa Hobby. Those are the two guys. Or Rafael Cordero. Rafael Cordero is very good. Yes. And Matt,

Matt, very close to her. Yes. Matt speaks very highly of him. He was like me and my, me and my friends always talk about like, if we, if Matt was like,

Hey guys, I'm done. I'm done coaching. He, we were like, where would you go? And I was like, you know what? It might be right for Cordero. I heard they spar pretty hard there. So they got a lot of injuries. So, but I'm like, I'll was like, hey guys, I'm done. I'm done coaching. We were like, where would you go? And I was like, you know what?

That might be right for Ocadero. I heard they spar pretty hard there. Yes, they do. They do. I was like, hey guys, can I just train here? I don't want to spar hard. I told people, I was like, dude, I don't need to spar hard. I was like, I'm pretty sure when I get in the octagon,

I'm going to pull the fucking trigger. You ain't got to worry about that. Don't worry about that. You've been pulling the trigger for a long time. But it's like, you know, that's that old shoot the box style yes those old habits die hard those guys used to beat the fuck out of each other for puppies you ever heard that story yeah i did with so much shogun and vanderley silva they brawled over a puppy and whoever could knock who out like shogun apparently had a puppy for sale and vanderley

didn't want to pay as much as shogun wanted for it. So Vanderlei said, if I knock you out, I don't have to pay, but if you knock me out, I'll pay. And Vanderlei knocked him out. When Shogun woke up, Vanderlei was holding his puppy. He was like, you see my friend. That's some cold shit. Yeah. But I'd also think there was a lot of ignorance involved.

Yeah. And I don't think they understood head trauma. Yep. You know? And I think there was a point in time to where now, I think everybody's starting to understand, that's the thing about the Tito Doshaw thing. I totally respect what he did where he was like, I need to go to be with somebody who's going to

put 110% into me. And that's DeWayne Ludwig. Team Alpha Male, they've done an amazing job and still doing a good job trying to keep that team together, but at the same time, this is a business. We're all trying to make money. And then today, you're right, he's taken care of, regardless if he ever becomes a champion or not.

He's done did it. I told Uriah Faber in his face, I was like, dude, you might never be the champion, but you'll probably be the most lucrative, successful 135 pounder to walk this earth. Well, he's a very smart guy business-wise, too. He's really good at flipping houses. He owns a few houses, buys them, and sells them. He's a smart dude. houses. He owns a few houses, buys them and sells them. He's a smart dude. Very, very clever guy. And I think with TJ,

he saw that if he went with Dwayne Ludwig, which he should, because Dominic Cruz ain't no fucking joke, that he is going to be able to keep on being 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Maybe, but here's the counter to that. How much of how good he got

was sparring with Joseph Benavidez, sparring with Chad Mendes, sparring with Lance Palmer, sparring with Cody Garbrandt. You know, being in the gym with those fucking monsters that are his weight class every day. That's also a big factor. Yeah, that's true. I think the combination of Dwayne and them was substantial. He can try those tools out on them.

I just don't think fucking, man, whatever reason they couldn't work. Well, you know, there's nothing perfect in this world, you know? Well, I have to say, my favorite quote by T.J. Doshaw was like, shit, T. Muffin only even got a fucking physical therapist. I was like, I don't have a physical therapist. Physical therapist. Muscle farm's taking it to the next level. All right, number six.

How did you get into broadcasting for the UFC? Dana White talked me into it. Really? I had no desire. Really? Zero desire. You're like, dude, how much people eat shit for a living? Well, before that, I worked for the UFC.

I worked for the UFC in 97. I worked for the UFC in 1997, UFC 12, not 2012. 1997 in Dothan, Alabama. It was the first UFC where they were supposed to be in New York. They were supposed to be in Buffalo, and they moved it down to Dothan. So I did that, and I did it for about two years, and then I decided to quit. And when I decided to quit, I I was very content not doing it. And I was excited when Zufa purchased it. And so then they had their big pay-per-view event long before

I started working for them, where Tito Ortiz fought Vladimir Matyushenko right after September 11. It was a big event in Vegas. And me and Eddie Bravo went down for it. And I became friends with Dana White. And, you know, Dana and I, we just talked about fights. We would get together, and he knew me from Fear Factor. And that's how he – they were trying to get celebrities to come to the fights. So they would give you tickets and shit like that. And I was just telling him, like, what about this guy? You know about this guy?

What about that guy? You ever see this guy fighting? You ever see Shudo? You ever watch Shudo? You ever – started rattling off all this different shit to him. He was like, I need you. So he started going, why don't you do commentary? And I was like, fuck dude, I don't want to do commentary.

I'm busy, man. I heard you stand up. I mean, I was, I had two gigs back then too. I was doing the UFC or I was doing, um, Fear Factor and I was hosting the man show and I was doing standup comedy. So I've always done like a gang of different shit. You know, I was always just trying to, I just, I don't know,

the OCD part, which is really, and so then Dana asked me to do it. So UFC 37 and a half, which was I think in 2002. That was my first ever UFC that I commentated on. It was Chuck Liddell versus Vitor. Oh, wow.

Yeah. And it was on Best Damn Sports Show. Remember Best Damn Sports Show? Yeah, I do. Yeah, they had it, they aired the UFC on Best Damn Sports Show. Remember Best Damn Sports Show? Yeah, I do. Yeah, they aired the UFC on Best Damn Sports Show. And so I watched, I commentated on that, and then Dana tried to get me to do all of them. And then I said, no, listen, man, I go, you know, how about this?

I go, I'll do some commentary. I go, just get my friends tickets to the fights and I'll do commentary. So that's what we, like the first, I think like 10 or 15 shows, I didn't get paid at all. I didn't even ask for money. I didn't want any money. I go, just fucking fly me out there, get my friends tickets.

So, you know, like Eddie and a couple of my buddies from Jiu Jitsu, we'd come and they were fans. They would sit in the front row, we'd watch the fights, and then after a while we'd go eat steak and relax and have a good time. You're like, fucking take care of my boys. Yeah, this is fun. We had a good time.

You know, it's like, this is great to be able to, because we were always big UFC fans. One of the things we would always say is, what the UFC really needs is some crazy millionaires who have all this money in the world, who are willing to spend a ton of money to promote the sport. And if they did that, man, the sport is so exciting, it could really be huge. And so that was our thought process behind it. And it's almost like we manifested the Fertittas.

And the Fertittas, out of nowhere, became these guys that were these super millionaire, billionaire characters that were fans of the sport. And so from 2002 on, I've been doing it. Nice, man. Love it.

Love it that you're there. All right. Have you ever commentated high? No. Oh, there you go. That's probably like a little lingering. I wouldn't have passed any tests. Yeah.

But I never do now. Maybe that was like really early on, like in the early 2000s. But no, I'm sober for all of them. Good, good. All right, here it is. Even the hangover thing, I'm never hungover anymore. That was early, early, early, early days. Yeah.

And only a couple times. Because I remember my brain just wasn't firing that good. I was like, ooh, this is not good. Mike's like, Joe, you all right? He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. He never says that. It's always me asking him. Mike, I'm like, okay.

He goes, I don't know, Joe. You're not fired today. This one is kind of two-part. Thoughts on people going to Bellator and testing the free agency market? I think we need more competition. And I think it'd be great if Bellator becomes giant. First, they should ditch that stupid fucking name. I think Bellator. What is a Bellator?

Try explaining that to your fucking gardener. Try explaining that to your boss. We're watching Bellator. What's Bellator? It's like MMA. What is MMA? It's like the UFC. Oh, okay.

Nobody knows what the fuck that means. They should call it Spike TV Mixed Martial Arts. It's like MMA. What is MMA? It's like the UFC. Oh, okay. Yeah. Nobody knows what the fuck that means. They should call it Spike TV Mixed Martial Arts. If they were smart, they would just call it Mixed Martial Arts. When you watch boxing, you don't give a fuck if it's Don King or Bob Arum or Golden Boy. You just know it's boxing. It's boxing, and that's what MMA should be.

I mean, right now, we've got this NFL situation where, like, when you watch football, you really watch the NFL. There's no other options. You've got Canadian football, which is fucking ridiculous Or you've got the NFL that's it. Yep, and that's the situation right now we have with MMA Even though I work for the UFC and I love the UFC. I don't think that is a good model I don't think it's a good model for the athletes I think the best model for the athletes is the model that boxing has. And that's why when you look at how much money the top boxers make, the difference between how much the promotion makes and how much the athletes make,

it's sided more towards the athletes in boxing than it is in MMA. And I think with a company like Bellator, you know, they're backed by Viacom. And I think the good thing about something like Viacom is that Viacom is this multi-billion dollar, huge multimedia company. The bad thing about it is they're a business and they're not in the business of MMA. Like the UFC, Dana White and the Fertittas are huge mixed martial arts fans. They love the fights, and they have no plans on bailing on the UFC. It's a very profitable venture. They make tons of money.

It's a huge success, and they built it to be that giant success. So they deserve everything they get. Viacom does not feel that way. Viacom is in it to win it. They're in it to make money. And the moment it stops making money, they're going to cast it aside the same way they did Glory. They got rid of Glory.

That was a huge fuck-up on their part. That was a gigantic fuck-up. Because, first of all, high-level kickboxing is some of the most exciting shit you could ever watch. It's super, super exciting. And for them to bail on that, I just think it's ridiculous. I just think it's super super exciting and for them to bail on that i just think it's

ridiculous i just think it doesn't it's so short-sighted and i think their promotion sucked i don't think they did a good job of of getting people excited about it i don't think the promotion like the uh the actual um uh the the actual the way it was produced the production of it was that good it's just like what you have is an amazing product. You've got Nikki Holtzkin. You've got Joseph Valtellini. You've got Raymond Daniels. You've got all these wild-ass kickboxers.

You've got Rico Verhoeven. You've got amazing, amazing talent. You've just got to figure out how to promote them. Put the fucking money in. Make that money. Put the money in and get the return. That's not the business they're in. They're in the business of profitable promotions

profitable television shows profitable productions whatever they put together they want it to make money and when you start seeing those 200,000 views 300,000 views they're like fuck this and they tried that one pay per view which is an extreme disaster

so poorly planned so poorly planned first So poorly planned. First of all, you don't have a fucking pay-per-view where you show them hours of free shit first. Yeah. And then you make them watch the pay-per-view. It's like, that's what the UFC does, dummy. But the UFC's an established brand, you fucking idiots.

When the UFC does it, it's an appetizer. They're building it up. They're getting your lips wet. And you're like, fuck it, we're in all this. We're ordering pizza. We get the appetizer. They're building it up. They're getting your lips wet. And you're like, fuck it. We're in all that. We're ordering pizza. We get the beer out. We're fucking doing this.

We're doing it all night. I think they tried to emulate that model. And it's not smart. Boxing doesn't do it that way. Nobody else does it that way. And I don't think they should have done it that way. And I definitely don't think they were ready for pay-per-view. I think that cost them a lot of money.

And they started going deeper and deeper into the red. Yeah, I agree. I always think it's good to have good competition because it makes people decide after their contract is up with the UFC or Bellator or other places, then they can decide on, hey, like what,

is he testing the market for Bellator? And from the word on the streets that he got a good deal with the UFC. So I think it's a good competition. I think it is a good competition. I also think that it would be great for everybody, including the UFC. I think that if the Bellator promotion

really kicked it into gear and started putting on really high quality shows with guys who you look at them, like say if Jon Jones was over in Bellator, if Jon Jones left and went to Bellator, good fucking googly moogly. Start smashing people, and then Gustafson went over there, or a couple other guys go to, that would be giant.

And it would force everybody to rise up. It forces everybody. Even if Glover, someone who's like a real top ten contender, Glover Teixeira. Or Ben Henderson. Ben Henderson. He might. Look, Ben Askren, to this day, I'm pissed that Ben Askren was never signed by the UFC.

I think that's a disaster. Well, Dana White would rather watch two dogs, two flights fuck over shit than watch him wrestle. I don't understand that. That's not how I look at it. The way I look at it is like you've got the sport, which, again, I call high-level problem solving, right? That's what MMA is. Yeah. And then you've got this guy who's just this giant problem.

Yeah. He's such a wicked grappler. Yeah. He's so good. And people go, oh, he's boring. Like, not to me. Not to me. Not to me.

How do you solve this problem? When I watch Fire Emblem, I'm like, hang on, let me sit back and watch this again. Hang on. How about this? Watch baseball. That shit is so fucking boring. You know, I can tell you what I've had. And millions of people watch it.

I've had sweets Unlimited drinks, unlimited food You know what I did? I fell asleep And you know who was right next to me sleeping? Joseph Benavidez, my friend Me and him were out in Toronto Of course

Well you guys are tired from training Why would I waste my valuable mental and physical resources To stand awake for this shit When I can just recover? Fuck this. And you look over at him. He's sleeping. Fuck, I'm going to sleep too.

Exactly, yeah. I got to get a couple selfies. Then I'm going to bed. Yeah, get a couple selfies with him blacked out. Yeah, I think MMA should be pure. That's what I think. And I think that a guy like Ben Askren, he presents a pure problem. And that

problem is, he's got a very strong skill. And he's incredibly gifted and talented in one aspect of MMA. And I want to see a guy like that. I want to see you throw that guy in with everybody. I want to see, what can he do to Carlos Condit?

Maybe he takes Carlos Condit down. Carlos can't do shit to him. That's why I like you. People are like, oh, man, Sage Northcutt, he's too young. Fuck that. I want to see him fight Anthony Pettis. Fuck yeah. I want to see his athletic ability against somebody who's just as athletic and skillful.

Yes, I understand building him up, rising him to the occasion. Who cares? Yeah, he lost. Who cares? Right. He'll come back. He's young. He's going to get better. He rising him to the occasion. Who cares? Yeah, he lost. Who cares? Right. He'll come back. He's young. He's going to get better.

He's going to get better. Let's not, you know, I'm not saying they're pampering him right now. A lot of eyes, you know, a lot of eyes out there are like, oh, he's, this is one thing that pisses me off. People are like, he's not ready for that fight. He's not ready for that fight. How do you know? Well, this is the thing. Here's my opinion.

When you come to the UFC, this is a thing here's here's my opinion when you come to the ufc this is this is the fucking hippie the the thing my amateur career was so long that matt wanted to make sure when i got into when i thought when he called me when sean should be called him there was hey we got a fight with demetri johnson we wanted we want to sign him after i knocked out jesse brock in alaska and matt was like okay who do you want in the fight? And he goes, Brad Pickett, right? Any other coach would be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want him to fight Brad Pickett. Brad Pickett's tough. He's good. You know what Matt said? Absolutely. Let's do it. I believe Demetrius will be anybody out there. I went out there and I fought my ass off,

broke my hand and lost the fight. And was Matt upset? No, he wasn't upset at all. He goes, dude, that was your first fight in the big show you went out there fight your ass off you performed way more than my expectations so why not why not let's go sage north against uh who who you think would be a good fight well i don't know but i mean uh here's a counterpoint to that the counterpoint to is you look at a guy like mayweather who was uh an olympic star went from went from that to enter MMA and was slowly built up. Now here he is, 49-0, supposedly retired, but we both know that's bullshit. He's going to fucking get back. He'll be back in April when they build that huge stadium in Vegas.

That's what I guarantee you. I'm going to predict it right now. He's going to be back in April, and he's going to fight Manny Pacquiao after Manny Pacquiao recovers from shoulder surgery. It's going to be the biggest fucking fight ever, next to the last fight, which was the biggest fight ever. He's not going to pass up on money. And he's still young and he's still awesome. Why would you tie your record with another person where you can have the record? Exactly.

Fuck Rocky Marciano. Bam! Not only that, I think Rocky Marciano fought his brother more than once. Really? Yeah, that's the rumor. The rumor is Rocky Marciano fought his brother at than once. Really? Yeah, that's the rumor. The rumor is Rocky Marciano fought his brother at least once, maybe more than once. So his record might really be like four.

Unquestionably, Rocky Marciano was one of the greatest boxers of all time. Unquestionably, a nasty brawler. You watch his victory over Jersey Joe Walcott, that nasty knockout. He was a fucking brawler. And he was 189 pounds. He was 5'9", and he was a fucking heavyweight. I mean, it's incredible. I mean, he might have been 5'10". I don't know, but he wasn't a big guy.

It was a different world back then. It was hard to get food. It was. It was hard for people to get big. The average person during World War II, the average man, or not World War II, the Civil War, the average man was like 130 two the average man or not World War two the Civil War the average man was like 130 pounds There you go right here. There's no food I mean there were there were no

Giants back then it was really difficult like when a guy like Jack Johnson came along everybody was like what fuck? Because he was a legit heavyweight yeah, but they called him. You know they called him a giant and I mean What was he like six two? I think I think Jack Johnson was six two heavyweight yeah but they called him you know they called him a giant and uh i mean what was he like six two i think i think jack johnson was six two yeah you know that's what i think you know i don't i don't think people were big back then i think it was a totally different world but um how old was he jamie six two see bitch i know my shit um what was the original question what the hell how did we get to that we ran off i'm talking about uh what question? How did we get to that? We ran off talking about... What was it?

Where did we start from? Oh, Sage Northcutt fighting... And how people are like, oh, they're not ready for that fight. If he was my student, I would test the waters. The first fight that he fought... Who was the guy who fought?

I forget the gentleman's name, but it was a really quick stoppage. We don't know anything other than the fact that he's explosive and fast, and he took advantage of an opportunity to stop the fight quickly. I think that if time goes on, he's got a lot of potential, and he's got a lot of marketing potential, and you've got to look at it as a massive investment. And I think that you would start to build him up, give him some tougher and tougher fights,

and then, you know, maybe when he's 20, 21, then, well, he's 19 now. I like how you said, when he's 20, 21, I'm like, fuck, I didn't get into UFC until I was, what, 24? That's still perfect. I think Matt Hume is, like, one of the best and smartest trainers and strategists. So I think his movement of you and getting you in a position was perfectly orchestrated. I think a guy like Sage needs someone like that to be in his corner.

Ronda obviously didn't have that. Obviously. She didn't have someone who was covering all the bases. And I think you need someone who covers all the bases. Like, we don't know, like, how good is this kid on the ground? I mean, how good is this kid's wrestling? You know, what does it look like if he gets in there with a guy who can take him down at will? You know, have him spar with a guy like Askren.

Let's see what happens. Yeah. Let's see what happens if he wrestles with a guy like Askren. Askren just breaks him. He's like, ugh. You know? I call this the blanket. Ugh.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I call this to smell my balls. Yeah. I ride your face yeah what are you gonna do try to get me off and i think that's get me off of you i should say like i think you need to be exposed to all these different styles to find out where are the holes. Where's the holes in your game? And not wait till you get to the big championship and then you falter. Get head kicked. Shit happens. Exactly. It happens. But it happened the first time she fought a real kickboxer. Yes.

You know? Totally agree. That makes more sense. I mean, I remember Edmund telling me that he had a background in Taekwondo and he can't kick Ronda and no one's gonna be able to kick ronda i was like you're like i was like okay what the fuck happened you say i'm just him saying that i was like okay what can i just see you kick can i just see what this background looks like like this is just it's just a goddamn giant difference between anthony pettis and you let's just a goddamn giant difference between Anthony Pettis and you. Let's just be realistic.

Absolutely. Anthony Pettis, when you get these world-class kickers, there's a difference between a trainer like an Edmund and an Anthony Pettis. I'd rather get punched in the face than get fucking kicked. Oh, fuck yeah. If you've never been kicked, my dream was one day to meet Crow Cop. I'm like, dude, I want you to just kick me in the face than get fucking kicked. Oh, fuck yeah. If you've never been kicked, my dream was one day to meet Crow Cop

and be like, dude, I want you to just kick me in the fucking leg. Him and Aldo. When I first met, I love Aldo. He was my biggest inspiration.

Crow Cop, Andrzej Lowski, and Jose Aldo were my biggest inspirations. And I was like, when I met Aldo, I don't speak Portuguese, I was like,

dude, just fucking kick me. I just want to, because that's the thing, I was like, I I met Aldo, I don't speak Portuguese. I was like, dude, just fucking kick me. No! Because that's like the thing. You just want to feel it? I just want to fucking feel it. Like, what makes people like... Speed. Yeah, I was like, just fucking kick me just once.

Did he? I don't speak Portuguese. Or even a crow cop. I've never met him before. You don't want that guy kicking you. I was like, dude, just kick me. But Matt was like, dude, it's easy for a crow cop like. I've never met him before. Oh, my God. You don't want that guy kicking you. I was just like, dude, just kick me. But Matt was like, dude, it's easy for a crow cop kick. He weighs fucking.

He fights a heavyweight. He goes, a heavyweight can kick. They just got to throw their fucking leg on you and they're kicking. So those were always my thing. I'm like, I want to get fucking kicked by those guys. His highlight reel of chaos, that left high kick. Oh, yeah. It's like no one else ever.

Nope. That Vanderlei one. Oh. A flatlined Vanderlei. Vanderlei like no one else ever. Nope. That Vanderlei one, a flat-lined Vanderlei. Vanderlei just collapsed in a hump. Yeah. Oh, my God. God damn, he was badass in his day.

Yeah. So, I don't know what the original question was. That's my answer. I love the answer. I love it. Is that it? Is that all the questions? That was all the questions. They love it. Is that it? Is that all the questions? That was all the questions.

They had a lot of jackass questions, and I'm not about bringing jackass stuff in. Whose dick would you suck if you had to stay alive? If you were at the bottom of the ocean and someone's dick contained oxygen, who would it suck to get out there? Would you do it? Yeah. The internet is amazing in that anybody can talk. But it's the pros and it's the cons of it.

But ultimately, it's pro. There's been times I just want to – it's actually I've gotten a lot better. Like I won't even go on MMA. I won't go on any MMA sites anymore. Just won't. I'm like, the only reason I'm going to go on Twitter is if I'm looking for something or if I'm going to post something about me coming on here or stream or anything like that because a lot of people, they just talk shit.

And it's like, stop talking shit. Just fight. Well, you also have to think about it this way. And they should probably think about it this way, too. Like, what are you doing? Like, if you you're going online like i'll look at something sometimes someone will talk shit to me and i'll go to their twitter account and i'll realize that's all they do yeah that's all they do is talk shit to me yeah i look at their twitter account i'm like this you need to get someone's help yeah you know someone needs to talk to you like your fucking whole twitter feed is me you're telling me I'm a loser

But I didn't even know you existed until two seconds ago And apparently you've been tweeting me for a year That's pretty fucking crazy And it's not healthy, man Sorry I just found you Sorry it took me this long But to say someone's not shit Like to go to your Twitter feed

But what about you, bitch? You know me, I don't even know who you are. You're not even a person. You're an egg. You're an egg-shaped avatar on Twitter with a fake name, and you're thinking about me. Why are you thinking about me? Because I've actually gone out and done something.

Absolutely. And that's what these people don't understand when they're talking shit to you, and they're attacking you and trying to get your attention. and they're attacking you and trying to get your attention. What you're doing is you're showing the flaws in your plan of life. Your plan of life is to shit on successful people and not become successful. You've taken all this energy and turned it into hate and just hoping someone falls,

hoping someone gets Ronda Rousey'd. Like, yes, I knew she was nothing. I knew it all along. I mean, there's so many people that love that. They love when someone falls. And what they really love is someone that no longer makes them feel like shit because of their accomplishments. That's what they really love. When they watch someone fail, they don't necessarily love failure. What they love is they've been

alleviated of that feeling of inadequacy. That's what they really love. And they get to attack. Yeah! Now I get the green light. Yeah! It's like when someone loses, when they get knocked out, it's like a starter's pistol for cunts. Pow!

Go! They just fucking go, man. They just run and start. But they don't understand it's bad for cunts. Pow! Go! You know, they just fucking go, man. They just run and start. But they don't understand that it's bad for you. It's bad for them, like you. It's not good for you.

It's not healthy. It's not smart. You're wasting all that time hating on people and shitting on people. Like, I saw this guy the other day who was shitting on this fighter

and I went to his, I went to his Twitter page and his Twitter page was completely dedicated. Like, the name of the Twitter page was dedicated to shitting on this fighter and all the tweets. And, like, someone called him a troll. He's like, I'm not a troll. Trolls hit and run.

I'm here for the long run. You're going to get fucked up like that guy Josh Neer did. That's what's going to happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or Deontay Wilder. Did you ever see that? Deontay Wilder beat the fuck out of some guy. Some guy came to his gym and Deontay beat the fuck out of him,

knocked him down or hit him when he was down. I mean, this guy was like not even a big guy, and he's in there sparring with, I think he hadn't won the heavyweight title yet. He's the heavyweight boxing champion, one of the heavyweight boxing champions, next to Tyson Fury. I don't know what, you know, that's the heavyweight boxing champion. One of the heavyweight boxing champions. Next to Tyson Fury. I don't know what. You know, that's the other problem with boxing is it's so fractioned. Because there's so many different.

Like, you know, like Bellator will say the Bellator world title. Well, you know for a fact if Bellator puts on a 125-pound title fight, that shit is not for the world title. No, what's that? There's one world. What do you got there? Oh, go ahead. Go take a leak, man.

Sorry, sorry. He had to make us... He's holding it in so bad, he's limping. That's hilarious. Ladies and gentlemen, Mighty Mouse Johnson, he wrote on a piece of paper, I need to piss. We're going to auction that off on eBay. If you'd like to get in on that. While he's peeing, let me tell you about some

shits coming up uh next Wednesday there's a show at the Ice House Al Madrigal uh Tony Hinchcliffe Greg Fitzsimmons and probably more uh these shows sell out pretty quick it's a 10pm show and it's 15 bucks and it's next Wednesday

at the Ice House in Pasadena then December 11th there's a big show in Vegas at the Ca Theater with Joey Diaz and me. And Joey Diaz is on fire. He's on fire. Last night, I've never seen anybody funnier. Last night, people were crying, like tears. He's got, I don't want to say what the bit's about, but goddamn, he's got this bit. I'll say it's about eggs.

But it's not. bit's about, but goddamn, he's got this bit. I'll say it's about eggs. But it's not. It's about life. I got a bunch of other shit coming up, too. I'm at the Beacon Theater on January 29th in New York City. Tickets, the pre-sale went on sale today. And then Boston, we just added a third show today. I do two shows sold out at the Wilbur on Friday and Saturday night. We added a late show

on Friday night. We'll probably add a late show on Saturday night too because that's my hometown. And he's back, ladies and gentlemen. Perfect timing. We are back. I'm fucking feeling refreshed. So, here's another question. Dude, I got a bladder, man. I can't even pee right now. I can hang in there. It's because you go hunting. That's why. No, it's

because I'm doing this podcast. That's what it there. It's because you go hunting. That's why. No, it's because of doing this podcast. That's what it is. It's just my bladder grew from doing this podcast, from six years of doing three-hour conversations. That's amazing, by the way. I just keep, like, I had two beers. I had a coffee before I got here. Here's a quick question. What are your thoughts on if,

do you think Rana Rousey should do the rematch with Hall of Fame right now? No. Who do you think she should fight next? Well, I don'tassi should do the rematch with Halle Holm right now? No. Who do you think she should fight next? Well, I don't think she should do the rematch right now because of her head. I think she experienced some significant head trauma in that fight, and I think anybody that says any differently is an asshole. That's what I think.

I really do. I think traumatic brain injury is something that has gotten me more and more concerned over the last few years. Because of talking to doctors, I've had this one doctor, Dr. Mark Gordon, who works with a lot of soldiers, football players. He's worked with some combat sports athletes as well. And where he relays the issues with traumatic brain injury, the damage to the pituitary gland, the damage to your body's ability

to produce hormones, depression, and all the issues that come along with concussions, and how those are exacerbated by ignoring them or by trying to work through them or by getting injured again close to the concussion, which makes it way, way worse. When I look at guys that have had to exit the sport, like TJ Grant, who's about to fight for the title. Oh, yeah. And had to get out of the sport. I mean, like TJ Grant, who's about to fight for the title. Oh, yeah. And had to get out of the sport.

I mean, he's in a mine now. He works for a mine in Canada. And I just think that traumatic brain injury, although I love this sport, is one of the most overlooked and more dangerous aspects. You don't hear guys like Dana talk about it, and you rarely hear people talk about it outside of someone like me because they're promoters and because that's their bread and butter. I can't do that because for me, my bread and butter is me being honest. Yeah. That's my business. My business is I got to say what i really think and what i really think is she needs a comprehensive overall like overhaul of her game of her mma game yeah i think she needs to look at

like how she's preparing and she needs to take into consideration all the problems that were exposed in that fight and she needs to re reassess and readdress and i also think she has too many fucking distractions i think she has too much going on she's doing a roadhouse movie she's road she did the entourage movie she's doing you know who knows what fucking movie contracts and scripts and her phone's probably blowing up all day that's all fine when you're fighting betch cohea nothing nothing to take away from betch cohea but Betch Kohea she's like a mechanical or robotic sort of a puncher

she kicks kind of robotic there's no real threat of explosion there's no real submission threat I'm not saying that Betch can't eventually put that in her game but as right now when I look at her when she fought Shanna Baszler I'm looking at like a robotic fighter.

You know, it's funny. It's so robotic, you're laughing. I think she needs to really look at the whole, I mean, like we said, MMA is problem solving, right? There was obviously a bunch of new problems that were exposed in that fight. And one of the big ones is the difference between hitting mitts,

sparring with people that aren't really strikers, and fighting a 19-time world boxing champion, who's also an outstanding kickboxer, who's also an outstanding athlete, who's also incredibly mentally tough, who also has a fantastic, real, professional MMA camp filled with champions, potential champions, world class contenders. Mike Winklejohn

is one of the best fucking striking coaches in the world. Greg Jackson, who's a master strategist, and they've gone over this with a fine-tooth comb. There's no yes, man. There's no yes. When you hear, and that's the thing too, I guess when you heard

Harley Holmes say, there's a couple of times I guess when you heard Holly Holm say, like, there was a couple of times I got in the gym and I would just cry. Just cry. That's not going to win me the world championship. And then she'll come back. And I'm not saying, I don't know if Ronda Rousey has ever felt that way. If she's like, I'm not going to build that. That's not going to beat Holly Holm.

You know what I mean? But it's almost like when you bring up how many people she's been training with, Rico John, and the different aspects of her. She has different types of fighters there. John Doxon's there. Carlos Condit. John Jones has been there. So she's surrounded by other fighters.

That's all these fighters do. With Rana, she's been able to expand her brand and go into movies and do all that stuff and have that income coming in to where I don't know if anybody else around her is still on that, have that hunger. Like, no, this is what you got to do. This is the,

this is the goal. This is what pays the bills. Yeah. And that money is so great from those movies. And there's so, and then she's got agents. Her agents were out there in Melbourne with her. really?

Yeah, man, movie agents, you know, look, ma'am, I go back to the days when Mike Tyson had that fucking down jacket on

and he was running at 5 o'clock in the morning and he was 19 years old and they asked him, why do you run at 5 o'clock in the morning? And he was like, I run at 5 o'clock in the morning because I believe that my opponent is in bed and I believe it gives me an edge.

He's not getting movie scripts. He's not thinking about writing a book or dodging some fucking paparazzi. He's an animal. He's out there being Jack Dempsey. He's being the best he can be. He's out there with a singular drive. I think you have to be obsessed with fighting, and it has to be your overwhelming consuming passion and i think as soon as you start giving up little pieces of real estate you know you start making little subdivisions in your brain well you know what i'll just put a little side for uh uh my fucking uh my little tv show that i'm gonna work on and i'm gonna start my own production company i'm looking to the future

look at the future is a fucking left high kick. That's the future. That's who you need to be preparing for. Fuck all this Roadhouse bullshit, because that movie is going to come and go, and you're not going to notice whether or not... Look, Rhonda made some insane amount of money in the last couple years, right? Oh, yeah. Some insane amount of money. I mean, depending on who you ask,

she made between $6 and $10 million over the last couple years. Okay, so let's just stop right there and look at that. If you make a million bucks for Roadhouse or $2 million, you're not going to know that. You're not going to notice that money. No, that's not what I'm saying. You don't know the difference between $6 and $8 million.

It doesn't mean anything. Gotcha, gotcha. Unless you're a crazy person that constantly needs to buy things, when you have a certain amount of money, everything becomes free. That's what it is. It's like,

you want to go buy a laptop. Well, go buy a laptop. You just fucking give them the credit card. You don't even think about it. When you're broke, you go, how much is a laptop?

$2,000? Shit. I still fucking do that now. Right. Well, you're smart. You're smart. You're frugal. But when you've got

$10 million in the bank, what you're supposed to do is realize, okay, well, now money is not an issue anymore. So why would I want to go out and try to search for these new ventures instead of, okay, right now, I'm fighting right now. This is what I'm going to put my eggs and all my focus on. And there's no reason why I need to go out and do this movie. But it might be something she... The problem is you let the door open to the vampires, the agents.

Like, ah. And they come in. I was like, what's that supposed to mean? It's just a door. You let the door open to the vampires and they... They slide into your house and they go, There's so much money on the table, Rhonda. There's so much money to be made.

What about films, entourage? If you fucking spent a moment of your life preparing for that piece of shit movie, that's a moment wasted, right? It's a fact. You're doing the most noble, courageous, terrifying thing in all of sports. You're becoming the most dominant

and recognizable female champion of all time. To spend any time away from that doing some shitty movie, some nonsense, agent-created catastrophe of culture, that's a waste. It's a waste. But there's a lot of money in that waste. You might make a half a million bucks. You might make a million. Who knows what you you make the point is that all that stuff came about because Over fighting and because of our success and because of her dominance and as soon as that Success and dominance goes away then all that money erodes away See that you let you open the door to the vampires a vampire suck your blood

So then you left there dehydrated and emaciated like what happened you open the door yeah you open the door and you let them in and i don't necessarily think anybody other other than her mother who's a just a a badass herself i don't think there's a lot of people that are going to tell her that you know so what would you say the so here's a good example so this let's run and leave that door closed and be like, you know what, no, I'm going to focus on fighting. And they'll be like, well, this door's not going to be open again. The only way that door's really open now, honestly, is if she wins. Right now that door's not open anymore. No, I'm saying, though, let's say after the Betch Grahera fight, she never did Entourage.

She never did Fast and Furious 7. She just kept on fighting, kept on fighting, kept on fighting, kept on fighting. And let's say she's the greatest. She just kept on fighting, kept on fighting, kept on fighting, kept on fighting. And let's say she's the greatest. She beat Anderson Silva's record. She's defended the title 50 times. And let's say she missed the opportunity to open that door. But the money she's made on fighting, just the money she's made on fighting is insane. Well, yeah, because she's in a different stratosphere because there's never been a woman

that's been dominant like that, that's been a world-class fighter that's appeared in all these Metro PCS commercials. Oh, yeah. Like, all that shit's fine. It's when you start going off into movies. Yeah, I have, okay. Who else has been like her?

There's no one. No one's been like her, right? So she's made all that money just from fighting. Yeah. I think when you stretch out, you get greedy. You start going for all that other stuff. Like, there's some cool shit. Like, I love the idea of the Roadhouse movie.

But the Roadhouse movie doesn't work anymore. Yeah. The Roadhouse movie only works when she's the badass. Yeah. As soon as now. Ah, gotcha. Now you want Holly Holm to be the fucking bouncer. How funny would that be if they were like, Holly Holm shows, walks in the door like,

oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Rondo, we need to talk to you for a moment. The fucking vampires are all polar aside. You know, well, we've looked at your Q rating. You know, there's like a Q rating thing. There's like this fucking guy that I know who's an actor. He's a nice guy, but he's a fucking idiot.

But he goes, you ever look at your Q rating? I go, what are you talking about? There's a website you can go to. You find out. Well, we're obsessed with it. Sometimes I'm more famous, and sometimes I'm not. Like, I close his laptop. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? There's a website you can go to you find out well. We're obsessed with it sometimes I'm more famous sometimes. I'm not like I close his laptop. I what the fuck are you doing get away from that? This is poison. This is occupying your thoughts you have children. Yeah, okay?

You have you've hobbies you have things you like to do do those things yeah concentrate on being the best you can be Concentrating on this random algorithm that decides how famous you are in any given moment, that's insanity, man. Go take a yoga class. You need to do some mushrooms. Go out in the forest and find yourself. You need to take them. He's too hard.

He's too much. He's got a lot of Jesus in his head, too. There's a lot going on with this one particular dude. But this idea that you concentrate on what got you to the dance yeah and what got ronald to the dance is the singular focus that she had in judo which made her this dominant judo fighter right and then she enters into mma and there was no grappler that could fuck with her man she's hip tossing bitches she's throwing them on their heads i mean she was just so spectacular with her arm bars.

She found someone that had the kind of potential and that had the kind of talent that she did in a singular discipline, but it was a singular discipline that she didn't have. That discipline was kickboxing and boxing. Striking, which is not her strong suit. She has to think. I always have to try to be

open with all the fighters you know I asked you like you know how you feel about sparring all stuff I like to ask her like how much kickboxing you do on a daily basis like just do you ever do any kickboxing I still take classes you know when there's classes going AMC I take Muay Thai classes and because I always better I always feel that there's something I can still learn even even though how many fights. Or even if it's Jiu-Jitsu, I just put on a gi. So I wonder, like, how much kickboxing do you do leading up to training camp?

But then again, you bring up, you know, open the door, or the demons, where it's like, hey, we're going to get in, get this work out in, and then I got to go do this interview. But at the same time, you know, the UFC model, they push that because they need to have her mainstream to open up doors, sell the pay-per-view revenues to do all that stuff so it's almost like they do but they don't it's like how much of that do you really need how much of that is really beneficial like what is the difference between like what Ronda brings to the table and if all that stuff was so beneficial well how come you know how come other fighters who do the same amount of work don't get the same amount of reaction to it?

Well, it's because the results inside the octagon are what's most important. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. All those interviews don't mean shit. Yeah, that's... If you're boring, you know, if you can't make it happen, if like you, I watch your skills and I'm like, oh my God, this, clunky, and there's nothing good here. Yeah. You're not going to, it's not going to be worth it.

Yeah. And the only way to take clunky and make it better is to singular focus. You have to be driven, and it has to be only what you think of. It has to be, you have to be obsessed. You have to be crazy. I mean, you know it. Oh, yeah. No, no, dude. Yeah. Can't wait till the lights, you know it. Oh, yeah. No, no, dude.

Yeah, can't wait till the lights go off so we can talk a little bit more behind scenes, dude. I'm sure. I don't like the model. I don't like the model of these athletes having to do all these interviews. I don't like their training being interrupted. I don't like their rest being interrupted. I don't like any of these things. I think these things are counterintuitive i think the same result that you get out of that could be gotten with a narrator like they do on those

showtime things when they get what's his name lafe uh what the fuck's that guy's name the guy was in yeah leaf schreiber right that guy's a bad motherfucker he's a great narrator like or you know you get who's the other guy from pulp fiction Fiction? Ving Rhames. Ving Rhames is good at that shit too. You get a good narrator, you show training footage, and you have the occasional interview. Maybe you have one interview a week. It's almost like there's a point in time to where I saw so much of Connor or Rhonda,

and I was like, okay, I'm getting a little, and I love Connor very, very much. You got to get in there. Get your name together. Go take a look at it. And I was on the okay, I'm going to get a little, and I love Conor McGregor to death. You got to get in there. Get your nails done. Go take a look at it. I was on the couch just laughing. I was like, oh, I can watch this all fucking day. Put your head panties on.

Yeah. We made it. Yeah. But then it came a point in time to where like every single time we watched something, I would see him over and over. And I was like, I'm going to change the fucking channel. But then he went away for a while. Then he started doing something. And I was like, go'm going to change the fucking channel. But then he went away for a while. Then he started doing something.

And I was like, go on. What were you saying? What were you saying? You got my attention. Yeah. I totally agree with you. It's like an elusive girlfriend. Yeah.

Where are you, bitch? I'm going to fucking text you all day. I miss the fuck out of you. That's what it's like. If a girl's texting you all day, you're like, no. Leave me alone. I'm working out. Yeah.

But then you never – that's the thing. You can never find the right recipe to do it because you've only had so many athletes be able to come into multi-platform stars. And I think as me, as a fighter, I want to get to that point to where I can make – I wish I had – I wish I could make $10 million. If I had $10 million in the bank, the bank fuck I tell you what right now it would just well my focus has always been mixed martial arts but yeah I don't fucking now by do you do you mean you have fight anymore did we gonna call we gonna call it a shot come on we should train I would call it a shot you think would stop you stop competing I fucking love it I yeah it's still compete is much I

tell you what I bet you wouldn't do any interviews. No, I still would. You'd be like, my phone broke. No, no, I still would. TJ keeps breaking his phones. No, I still would. I think, you know, in reality, when I tell people, when I jumped in this sport, it was not to make money. It was not to – there was no 125.

There was no 135 or 45 or 55. I didn't even know about the UFC when I first did it. I saw the Ultimate Fighter, but it was Forrest Griffin and Rashad Evans and those guys working out. So there was no little guy running around. I didn't even know about Shuto. I didn't even know about Japan. Well, for the longest time, 155 was the lightest

weight class for the longest time. Exactly. Remember when we didn't even have a 155? Yeah. Remember when it was a 170 fucking uh sean shirk fighting gsp yeah so there was no there was no we're like there wasn't even a 55 yeah it was recently yeah but now you have people like they get out of high school i'm gonna be a professional fighter yeah motherfucker you know what that takes you know how much money you gonna make you know you know homeboy mcdonald's is making more money than you and you consider yourself a professional fighter and that's where like i didn't have that so that's

why i think like my outside on like my insight on like i'm either gonna win or lose i think that helps me to where now they built this model to where it's like you can be ultimate you can be a ufc fighter professional fighter and uh you can do all these great things which is absolutely amazing i'm not bagging on that model at all because it's given me the opportunity to sit here in front of you and have this conversation and for me and my wife to be able to travel the world and see things. But I think that people really need to look at it and dissect it before they jump all into it.

Yeah, and I think one of the more devastating things about this Reebok situation is that fighters can't make money outside of their paycheck. I want to elaborate on that. Here's my piece, even though you didn't fucking ask for it. Please do. I think the Reebok deal is good. How dare you? I'm going to keep it

fucking real. I'm going to keep it real. There's been times where I fought and I never got paid. You know? There's been times where we were going and negotiating about... Sponsors? Sponsors. One time there was a point in time where Xbox had told me, like, dude, we have nothing for you.

There's nothing we can give to you. And I was like, all right, well... Xbox? Xbox. This is after you already had a contract with them? I never had a contract with those guys. So they would just pay you fight to fight? Fight to fight, yeah.

It was... And that's the thing. People think when you have the Xbox sponsorship, you're directly working with fucking Bill Gates. You're not. Right. You should be. Where you at, Bill?

That would be fucking dope. Where you at, Bill? Like, Bill! Nick Diaz style. Where you at, Bill? That's what you have to fight. Yeah. Point to the Xbox logo. Yeah yeah so there'll be important times where

um you know uh if there's not something coming up that where they can advertise or anything but there's point times where i take in a fight and i got no sponsorship money whatsoever and i went out there and i destroyed my opponent and people like how could you do that how could you do that but in a day i take a step back and look at it like, this is fighting. I've done this to show myself to be the best fighter in the world. And I would do it because I'm fishing. I'm hoping that one day they're like, dude, we want to set you up and get you taken care of and all that stuff. And it just shows you that I'm the type of fighter to go out there

and snoop around and try to like, hey, hey, hey, hey, you want to sponsor me? Well, that's where some managers come into play no absolutely they come into play but I think the integrity that I had as as a human being in as an athlete that was like you know I've been rocking an Xbox the whole entire time and why am I gonna run off and go throw this person on my shorts because they're gonna throw me sixty thousand dollars and I have about sixty thousand dollars absolutely but I have to go out there for finagle with that person. Well, you shouldn't have to.

I see what you're saying. I know that. But the last thing I want to do is have my manager do that. Because the only person who, there's me, and there's Matt Hume, and there's everybody else. That's my manager, my trainer, my soul. He does all that stuff. Well, that's interesting because that's rare. Most guys have a manager

or a lot of guys have a manager. Yeah, but Matt is a trainer as well as a manager. He's kind of like an all-in-couple. You just have a very fortunate situation. I like it that way because I trust him. He wants the best for Demetrius Johnson

and I want the best for Matt Hume. And so the last thing I want doing is having fucking Matt running around town trying to scheme me. I totally understand that. And now with Reebok, we don't have to worry about that. Don't get me wrong. It is fucked up for somebody to have their first professional fight and make $2,500. They can make more money from fucking McDonald's sponsorship for Chicken McNA nuggets, they have a dollar special going on. Well, it's guys like Brandon Schaub that were making more than $100,000 a fight.

I'd like to see the paycheck for that. I saw it. Oh, okay. I saw all his financials. Well, there we go. I asked him because he was telling me this, and I said, I can't say that I know that you did this unless you give me all your financials. So he sent me all his financials.

He made $140,000 for one of his fights and sponsors. $140,000. How about Vitor, man? Vitor is losing millions. Really? According to his wife, who I have no reason to doubt, he's losing millions of dollars. See, that's why I think they should come out straight up and be like, dude, you know, when Reebok deal first came out, like I said, the one thing I love about the Reebok deal is

that I don't have to run around and try to finagle with anybody. I appreciate that. If I was making millions and millions of dollars as sponsorship, I would fucking come out and be like, okay. Yeah, you'd hate it. Hey, Dana White, I know you got the sports being all

great and stuff, but I'm making $2 million on sponsorships. You don't fucking believe me? Here's the paycheck. I'll post this bitch online to show the whole world that, yes, Reebok's all good and stuff, but I'm missing $2 million. So you tell me what's right for the fighters and what's right for the sport.

In all honesty, I don't think the UFC knew how much fighters were making. That's one of the reasons why Dana was saying that Brendan Shaw was a liar. I don't think he knew. Well, he knows now. Well, he knows. I mean,. I don't think he knew. Well, he knows now. Well, he knows. I mean, I just don't think they knew. I think they made a mistake in that regard. And I think that their idea was that this is a gigantic sponsor that's going to up the

profile of the sport. Yeah, absolutely. I honestly, true heartily believe that when the UFC wouldn't have dealt, or even Reebok wouldn't have dealt even Reebok wouldn't deal with Reebok. When UFC and Reebok shook hands, I think it was for the better of the sport, better for the fighters. I don't think that anyone was like

What's he doing? He didn't do any of that. If he did he'd probably be way more paranoid. I don't know. Trust me. I feel that when they went into that, they were hoping for the best for both sides, for the fighters and the UFC and the sport itself. No, I don't think they would ever do something they thought would hurt the UFC or hurt the fighters.

I just think that it probably should have been investigated a little bit more thoroughly, and it probably should have been handled a little bit more competently, then you wouldn't have Anderson Aldo t-shirts. You wouldn't have Anthony Pettis being called the fucking mauler on their website. Hey, hey, somebody just found out that I had shirts on there. So some dude was like, dude, I can't find your shirts. And I was like, I don't know. I looked and I was like, oh, here they are.

He goes, I've been looking all fucking day and I couldn't even find them. Schaub wouldn't even sign the deal. They keep coming to him to sign the deal. He's like, not interested. I didn't sign a deal. Yeah, well, they won't send his stuff. They won't sell his stuff unless he signs a deal and he just won't do it. Good for him. I mean, at the end of the day...

He's most likely going to retire anyway, but... He did retire, didn't he? Sort of, kind of. That's why at the end of the day, I'm at the point in my career where I know that I have to... And Dana White's told me this from day one. I remember the UFC fighters sometimes used to do. He's like, you guys have to use the platform that we're providing you guys to be able to market yourself. And I never realized what he was saying until now I'm in this point in my career.

I've defended my title seven times. times and I always refer to myself as a redheaded stepchild that I don't I don't get the same type of publicity as other fighters do which I'm totally fine with it well what's interesting is like a guy like Conor's only 20 pounds heavier than you yeah it's not it's not a size difference I mean it's not a big fucking size difference I've stood next to the man he's fucking towering over me he can see the ball top of it. He can probably see his reflection in this shiny bald head, my friend. Isn't it weird, though, that it's only 20 pounds? Yeah, it's true. It's only 20 pounds, but it's

you know, it's the way life is. As somebody told me, people like to see bigger people fight. Okay, but how come TJ Dillshaw gets a ton of press? He's only 10 pounds heavier than you. I don't know. There you go, right? You think it's because I'm black? I don't know. There you go, right? You think it's because I'm black? I don't know. Because you're black?

No. Could that be it? Jesus. No. I never even thought about that until just now. No, no, no. No, I don't know what it is, man. I think there's something about, like, flyweights. There's something about, like, the lightest weight that, for whatever reason, people don't appreciate someone who, even when you

knock guys out at that weight class, I don't know what the fuck it is, man. I don't know what it is. It's not good. I sparred a guy the other day. He's coming in. He comes to train with us because he comes to train, and he's a huge gambler, professional poker player.

And he comes to spar. He comes to get ready because. Shit ain't good for your brain no no no I don't have a brain but he he does betting against

other poker players and he has a gamble going on that he's gonna fight somebody for I think it was if he wins he gets $270,000

so the guy backs out he gets like $190,000 whoa so he comes he comes to AMC to get ready for his fight and he's way bigger than me

and then we're sparring and Matt was like you're going to spar Demetrius Johnson and we're sparring and I hit him in the stomach I was doing my thing and boom boom boom I hit him in the liver and he goes and I was like oh yeah and then I started hitting him in the face and I'm very nice

I tell all my sparring partners before my fights I promise you I will never hurt you. It might feel like fucking shit in hell, but I guarantee you will be able to go to work on Monday. Because a lot of my training partners, when I get with my fights, they have normal nine to five jobs. And so I was hitting him in the face. I was like, oh, isn't it amazing how the body just reacts when he gets hit in the liver? You don't even care I'm hitting you in the face right now, do you? And then he started breaking his face.

And I go, wham. And then somebody goes, and somebody goes okay i'm done i gotta take a break that's like give him a break real quick dj but it's like if a person's like oh you're too small too small right now it's like dude we can spar and we can see how it's gonna go like i'm not gonna be dick or a-hole but i'm gonna use my skill set that matt has provided me with to dismantle you and show you you need to respect me as a smaller person, I guess. I mean, I don't know how small I am. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I know exactly what you're saying. I think it's a perception issue. When Matt structures your training camp, he does the whole thing. He does strength and conditioning. He does your kickboxing,

wrestling, decides what you do on any given day. Yep. Thursdays I come in and I'm like, wrestling decides what you do on any given day yep thursdays i come in and i'm like i'll be mentally prepared because you know i always love it how you say um i want to see his fucking uh strength conditioner program and if you saw you'd be like what the fuck are you doing my friend you just have to come watch it like what do you do it's just it's just just random shit like it's just It's just crazy. It's always structured totally different. I'll come in physically. Trust me, it beats the hell out of me.

I'll come in Monday night. I'll do my Monday morning practice. I'll call my wife. I'll be like, hey, babe, I'm going to go get some food. I eat the same thing every single day. I wake up, have the same food. You eat the same thing every day? Every fucking day.

What do you eat? In the morning, when it's training camp time, I have, what, maybe three eggs and toast with cheese on it with Tabasco sauce. Then that's all I have for breakfast. And I have a little glass of orange juice. Not a lot. I don't like the orange juice. Sugar? Sugar, yeah.

Take it out to the gym. I do my hard intense interval day. And it might be, depending on where you're at in training camp typically the ones i do i fucking hate is the power explosion because i'm i'm throwing i don't like lifting weights like i like lifting weights but i don't like the weights when it comes to just strictly fighting i don't like lifting weights because the person i have to lift up is 125 fucking pounds well supposedly so we do that and then i take a break i Teriyaki Madness. I have teriyaki with brown rice and cucumbers. I eat that.

Then I go across the street and get my PCC. I have an apple. What's PCC? PCC is like a Whole Foods in Seattle. I have an apple, maybe a banana, and some type of nuts. And I fill up my gallon of water again. Then I sit there and I play video games until 5 o'clock or 5.30 or 6. Go across Walker next door, do a multi

pads, and then we'll either do hard grappling or we'll break down video and drill. And then next day, I do the exact same thing. Wednesday, I do the exact same thing. Thursday is off. Friday, I do the exact same thing. Saturday, I go up and spar, and that's it. So when people are like, when I look at fighting, it's my

full-time job. Some people are like, I love Dana White's comment. People, you know, champions, they can't take the pressure of being a champion. Being a fucking champion, if you ask me, all I have to do is go out there and fucking fight and make weight. Literally, that's all I have to do. I don't let any distractions get in my way of my fighting. Like if someone was like, you know, Matt, I told Matt, I was like, Matt, you know, my goal is I want to do movies. I want to be able to do something. I want to fight movies. I want to be able to do something. I want to go fight for so long.

When I start making those $2 million or $3 million or $4 million, if I ever make that from fighting, then I won't worry about doing fucking movies. I'm trying to do movies now because I'm not making that because I want to go fight for so long. But if I made $5 or $6 million in the bank, I won't even worry about anything else. But if I made $5 or $6 million in the bank, I wouldn't even worry about anything else. So that's why I put all my heart and soul into fighting because hopefully one day it opens those doors to the vampires. And I'll, fight time, fight time, fight time, fight time. Demetrius, you can make money. The gay porn vampires are going to come in. But that's like, so when I say I do the same thing every single day for eight weeks to ten weeks,

I live, breathe, eat, training. That's all I do. So you take Thursdays off every week? I take Thursdays and Sundays off. Really? Two days a week? Oh, yeah. Good for you.

And Wednesday is only a morning session, and Saturday is only a morning session. So I typically take Wednesday night off, Thursday off, Friday double, Saturday morning. Did you come to this from trial and error? Trial and error with Matt because I told him I was like, dude, because at the beginning of it, I would train Monday, Tuesday, a double. And then Wednesday night I would train. So I would rest all day morning Wednesday. And then Wednesday night we would train. And then I felt like Thursday was

almost like a recovery day and then on Friday I didn't feel as good because I was still beating down and so I was like Matt let's try Monday Tuesday my body's already to shit on by Wednesday and I was like let's just go hammer it through Wednesday then I get Wednesday night off to relax then I get Thursday off to relax then byiday my mind mentally i'm like fresh refocused body's fresh refocused we hammer it friday then saturday morning becoming hard hard sparring mma and then saturday night i'm off sunday i'm off monday start again i'm like fresh and we don't get in when we start a week we don't get into like hard sparring we spar i mean we spar twice a week and maybe one maybe one week super hard but i don't

wear headgear when i spar because we were not a big believers of hitting people in the head hard that's so smart man it's so smart you're the idea of taking those rest periods too because a lot of people don't want to do that they don't want to take those days off i i never wanted to do i never wanted to do it before but then when i fought fought, one time when I was well-rested, when I fought Dotson the second time, after the fight was done, I was like, Joe Rogan, you son of a bitch. You look prettier than ever. All right, go ahead and interview.

What do you want to talk about? I felt rested. I felt like I needed to go another six, seven rounds, even though I had that issue. Because you weren't overtrained. I wasn't overtrained. I was very well-rested. And sometimes there's that mental capacity to where there's there's times i'm like okay matt um matt's okay he'd be like you're done for today i'm like no no no i want i'm gonna hit the bag i want to get

some of my miguel cota rounds i want to hit the bat like a box and he goes no you're good there's no point because you have many more years to come to where you're going to put those arms to you so you're done for today go home and he would tell me to go home. It's not like, yeah, yeah, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. You need to do more rounds on the day. That's so smart, man. And that's, that's, that's. The fucking result speaks for itself, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And that's why, like, now, like, I'm, I'm, I'm fucking itching. I'm scratching. I'm just, I'm at the point now where I'm just like, fuck, I'm just waiting for the UFC to like, hey, this is who you're fighting next. This is the date. So you don't know who your next opponent is? Do not know.

Who do you think it'll be? They say it's possibly Henry Cejudo, but I never get married to that opponent because at the end of the day, it could be Henry Cejudo. Six weeks into the camp, he can get injured and then they give me somebody else. Isn't it crazy, Joe, Cejudo's only had a few fights in the UFC and already, I mean... That's the business. How many... Has he had three fights at flyweight? I think.

Four overall? He fought Dustin Kimura. That was at 130 because he missed weight. No. He fought, no, no, no. He was supposed to fight Scott Jurgensen. He was supposed to fight at flyweight. He missed weight.

It wasn't the first time he missed weight. Chusie Formiga was his last fight, right? His last fight, yeah. And then he fought Dustin. He's a good opponent. Chusie? Yeah, he is. That was good. That was a good fight yeah and then he finds a good opponent who uh jucia yeah he is that was good that was a good fight yeah he was a good fight um uh we'll talk later yeah we'll talk later um when he fought he fought that's the camaro 135 beat him and then he went

down to 135 again then he fought uh should i game or he fought he fought ah chris caruso beat him chico camas beat him. Juicier Formiga beat him. So he's on a four-fight win streak. Three fights in my lane. Did he fight Chico at 35 or 25? 25. Chico Camas is 25.

Chico was a good fucking fight, man. Chico's crafty. Yeah. For him not being a wrestler, he has the best takedown defense for wrestling. He's very slick. But it's only – that's the thing. Some of you, I was like, yes, yes. People are like, oh, man, do you think you could take it down?

I was like, probably, because my fighting style is totally different from Chico Camus. Chico Camus, he likes to defend the takedowns, and he's 100% successful defending because he's only defending it. When I'm going to defend a takedown, I'm going to be looking to fucking elbow you and knee you, which is going to give up my hips. you and knee you, which is going to give up my hips. So people are like, one of the things I love about Matt, he says, you're going to make mistakes in a fight, Demetrius, or DJ. He calls me Deej. You're going to make mistakes in the fights, but it's about how you recover from the mistakes what makes a huge difference.

So if I get taken down, I'm like, ah, I got taken down. Fuck, I'm screwed. Oh, now I got to get off my back. take it down, I'm like, ah, I got to take it down. Fuck, I'm screwed. Oh, now I got to get off my back. That takedown was humongous in the scorecards and in the judge's eyes. But if I get taken down, I'm like, okay, I got to take it down. Perfect. You got me. Okay, I'm pushing your head down. Okay, I'm getting up. Scooting your hips away. Okay, that's what you're pushing me on. Back on my feet. There's a knee to the liver. Okay, there's an elbow. You're backing up. Okay, I'm coming forward. I'm going to switch to softball. Here's a body kick. Oh, I'm back to

orthodox. Here's this, this. That takedown means nothing. Nothing at all. Right. And so that's my mindset. So you don't give in to that takedown. I don't give, yeah, half the fucking take. What are you going to do, ground and pound me? You're not going to knock me out that way.

It's just the way that I see, I view fighting from the judges to where the judges are like. Mm-hmm. Well, the judges, who knows what the fuck they're doing. Yeah. Like half the time. I mean i mean 50 of them are completely incompetent you know chuck liddell told me this once is a really interesting thing he said one of the most important things is if you get taken down the moment you feel your back touch the ground you have to explode yeah he goes guys rest they go fuck the guy took me down and they just work from from there. He goes, you can't do that. The moment your back touches the ground, you have to immediately be trying to pummel, get that underhook, get back up to your feet. He goes, you can't wait.

You can't wait. It's those split-second moments, the difference between taking a breath and then now the guy's pinned down on you, side control or half guard, the weight. Which I remember the first time I fought Brad Pickett. Well, not the first time. The only time I fought Brad Pickett. And I was holding him like this. Holding him. And Matt, when we got back home from the fight,

and after my broken hand healed and he went over the fight, he goes, we're watching the fight, and he goes, garbage, garbage, garbage. What are you doing there? Are you going to get up or are you just holding him to your chest? Garbage. And so that's how i was raised like right almost see like people are like do you the other day someone was like do you have a college education i'm like yes i do i have a college education in uh university amc of uh school of hard knocks because that's how it was like yeah matt would like i would win my amateur fights and matt would just in another uh in the

gym i'll come in he would just beat he'll beat me up he would like dude we're gonna spar and we were sparring he would beat me up at one point i was like i think he's mad at me like did i do something wrong and then like when i when i got in the wc in the ufc like i went against kiyamoto then he'll come back to the gym and we'll fight and he'll beat the hell out of me i'm like what the fuck i'll come over like babe i think matt's mad at me that post anything. I thought that was wrong I look at my tweets. I'm like everything's good. I didn't cuss or yeah, I'm good He just wants to keep you hungry. He keeps me hot and humble he goes I have to he goes you're on top of the world right now

He goes I need to break you back that and let you know you don't know shit about fight dude Seriously, that's how it was he goes you don't know shit And what does he say now like after the Dodson fight good job? I'll get back to work. He's just good job, and there's things we need to work on. And I'm way worse than he is now. He's like, dude, you need to be excited. You need to celebrate your friends.

I'm like, nah, I should have fucking finished him. I have the gas tank. I have the cardio. I have the skill set to finish him, and I didn't get the job done. And he goes, yes, I know, I know, because I'm like that. When I was at the fight, I was walking out, I was like, that fight was shit. That was a shitty-ass fight. And I'm walking, and fans are like, yeah, let me just, come on, come on, have fun.

And I'm just like, fucking fight was shitty. I don't give a fuck what nobody says. And I goes, you need to celebrate with your fans. You need, you need to be happy. Even when I thought just being with them, I was like, I was like, hmm, that took too long. And that's how it should be. Like, I am my worst critic because I know what I am capable of. And I know how hard I train.

And Matt knows how hard I train. But so now it's kind of vice versa. He's beat me down so much to now. Like, my wife's like, you're such a Debbie Downer, even though you fucking just won. Like, you don't even know how to celebrate. I'm like, sorry. She don't sound like that in real life. She don't sound like that.

But that's how it is. So that's why I'm always – I'm just a humble guy. So that's why I always want to strive for better. Even at the Dotsa fight, I was happy. Don't get me wrong because I know how dangerous it was and how much shit he was talking. When I saw the preview, the higher ups showed me the preview and then you showed dots and dropping me and i'm all falling back like this like i had no chance and i go okay guys i love i love i love what you're trying to do here trying to sell the

fight but why the fuck are you guys showing dots and drop me three times he goes dude we need to make it make it show the public that you have a chance to lose. And I was like, yeah, I'm not about that model, guys. I'm gonna yeah, I'm not a big fan of you guys' trailer. And I told them straight up. And they were like, well, I don't know what to tell you. So after that fight, I was very happy, very confident where my skill set is in my head and

physically. Well, the results speak for themselves, man. I mean, that displeasure in even your great performances, like the constant speak for themselves, man. I mean, that displeasure in even your great performances, like this constant striving for perfection, that's what's made you the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, man. Keep it up. No, don't worry.

I'm trying. I'm just waiting. I told Matt. And the hardest thing you find is that as I get older, I'm 29, and I don't try to take any supplements at all because you can never tell what's in them. What's in them and what is what is code like chelsea said i don't have a fucking list what's in what's being used

but we had uh jeff novitsky and we went over the list oh of all the stuff that's that they sell at like gnc that turns out to be steroids half the shit was probably fucking everything you see it's incredible and we're doing like oh man when i on Instagram, oh, this fucking pre-workout has got me. Yeah, that pre-workout shit's got roids in it, bitch. I was like, I don't even know what pre-workout is. Those hard dick pills they sell at gas stations, a lot of those are steroids, too, it turns out.

Yeah. A lot of steroids out there. So. Because they can just sell them, and then they get pulled off the shelves, and then they just come back with a new company name and sell some more shit. Yep. And that's why I try not, I don't take no protein at all. So you get all your supplements from food.

From food. I just eat food, food, food, food. That's it. Again, the results speak for themselves, man. And then when it comes time to – as I get older, I'm trying to find ways to preserve my body longer to where I'm not in the gym. I'm in the gym learning so i'm up the gym like two days a week trying to learn and drill and do all the stuff because i've already put the time in of learning so much training with matt excuse me in my amateur days in my jujitsu

days so now i'm like when it comes to fight time i actually learn more when i'm getting for my fights because i'm in a gym eight weeks straight just training and training. You don't even go so much over your next opponent where it's like, fuck, let's work on something new. Whereas now I'm at the point where I'm trying to figure out how do I preserve my body to when it comes time for camp, it's like, okay, when I start camp, what's your weight at? I'm at 141. He goes, that's pretty low.

And I'm like, well, I'm not at home getting fat. I'm working out, lifting, working on my strength.'s that's the hardest part I'm fighting in my career to where it's like I have to wait on somebody else to be successful in this sport for me to be able to fight again wow and that's crazy that's the sign of success well no it's not waiting you're waiting for people to catch up no no no no no no no no no no, no. That is what's going on. So you're twisted? No, no, no, that's my point of view. That's your point of view. My point of view is that I'm like itching. And you know what?

The call might come and I'm like, I don't want to fight there or this or that. But it's getting to that point where I'm like, I'm always hungry. I'm always, this is how I pay my bills. This is how I put diapers on the babies. But I'm just waiting like, come on, when is it going to be? And I want to be able to, if it's on record, I want to fight February 6th in Vegas.

Vegas, Vegas, Vegas. It's on record, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, they won't answer. They won't let me have that. We're out of time, brother. We just did three hours. Just flew by. Isn't that crazy? There we go. Flew by. I had to pee once. Only once. Amazing. And you, zero. Yeah, I'm good, man. I'm having a coffee right now, too. Good for you. My bladder's insane right now

I've trained it It's like your endurance Yeah, there you go Listen, thank you, brother I really appreciate you coming in here Let's do this again We'll do it again We'll promote the next fight

Next time when you're about to fight Yeah, sounds good My pleasure Thank you, sir Thank you Mighty Mouse Johnson, ladies and gentlemen Mighty Mouse USA No, Mighty Mouse MMA

Mighty Mouse UFC 125 on Twitch UFC 125 on Twitch But what is it on Twitter? Mighty Mouse MMA Mighty Mouse UFC 125, right? Yeah, Mighty Mouse USA. No, Mighty Mouse MMA. Mighty Mouse UFC 125 on Twitch. UFC 125 on Twitch. But what is it on Twitter? Mighty Mouse MMA? Mighty Mouse UFC 125, right? Yeah, Mighty Mouse UFC. Isn't it Mighty Mouse MMA? No, no, no, no.

That's my... Mighty Mouse MMA is my wife's email address. Oh, shit. But they don't know if it's Yahoo or.net or AOL. They're going to fucking send dick pics to all of them. Oh, God, no. All right, thank you, brother. Appreciate it.

All right, folks, we'll be back tomorrow with Bert Kreischer. See you then.