The Joe Rogan Experience - #743 - Phil Demers

Episode Date: January 5, 2016

Phil Demers is a former Marineland employee turned truther, also known as the Walrus Whisperer. http://savesmooshi.com

Was the correct pronunciation of your last name Demers? Demers. Demers. Demers works. Yes! And we're live. Second podcast of 2016, Phil. How you feel about that? I'm ecstatic, Joe. I can't even like begin to thank you for this. Honestly, if it wasn't for my having been on this podcast two years ago and returning now in a very timely manner, I think I'd be a fish dead out of water. What do you mean? Well, in terms of the cause that I sort of represent and all the multiple lawsuits that are levied against all the animal activists that I'm amongst.

Well, let's explain to everybody who is unfamiliar. You had a lawsuit with Marine World. You used to work for Marine World. Marine Land. Marine Land, excuse me, which is like Sea World for Canada. Something like that. A type of thing. A type of Sea World, right? Sea World's a day at the spa for animals

compared to Marine Land. Really? Oh, yeah. It's that much worse? Significantly worse. So, you worked for them. You were released from your job. Fired, as it were. I quit voluntarily.

I quit amidst a- Did they say you were fired? No, no. No, everybody admits you're quit. I never gave them the opportunity to fire me. I made the first move. They were going to fire you? I think that that's the inclination I had at the time.

But you were a trainer, and I think you opened up a lot of people's eyes to it. This was actually pre-Blackfish, right? This was pre-Blackfish. Yeah. trainer and you uh i think you opened up a lot of people's eyes to it um this is this is actually pre-blackfish right this was pre-blackfish yeah you came on i i i ate um pot candy and uh was in hawaii once like many years ago and i had an experience with dolphins where uh these dolphins were we were fishing and these dolphins were coming by the boat and they were jumping and playing with us. And I remember thinking, like, these are, they might as well be people. They might as well be, like, water people or something.

There's something weird about this. Like, they're enjoying playing with us. Like, as we yell to them, they do more stuff. Like, they came by and they were jumping and they were clearly looking at us when they jumped through the water and i'd never went been to sea world before because i had seen some documentaries on dolphins and i knew they were really smart and i'd seen some documentaries on orcas as well and it just always seemed really fucked up to me that they make them stay in these uh swimming pools but when you came on the podcast two years ago and illuminated what it's like behind the scenes at least at marine land it was horrific man and i got a lot of tweets from people um and facebook messages

that said they would never go to sea world or marine land again and then they realized really what it was then the documentary blackfish came out and the whole world was sort of forced to take a look at this and understand that these animals are super intelligent just because they can't manipulate things just because they can't pick things up and they can't write their name they can't send you an email in their environment that's unnecessary in their environment they're in the natural world they're moving through 3d space in the water. They have free food and fish. They have a huge community of fellow orcas and fellow dolphins, and they communicate with each other through a very complex language that we barely understand.

They have a fucking language. Not like monkeys go, ooh, ooh, and the other monkey goes, ah, ah, like kind of a language. No, they have a complex language with dialects. They might as well be water people. And the other monkey goes, ah, ah, like kind of a language. Now they have a complex language with dialects. They might as well be water people. They've already evolved to be the top predator of the sea. So there's no need for them to learn to email. They have no use for it.

So they're already the absolute top predators of the sea. Yeah, that's a way to look at it, right? Like we have this kind of view of our position being the top. I mean, we're kind of the top predator, but we're only the top predator because of our minds because we figured out how to manipulate things they have huge minds they have incredible brains and then they're also they eat everything they want then they don't need to evolve any further they've sort of mastered their domain. And they're amazingly adaptable. They evolve in every which capacity to be able to adjust to the ever-changing world. Killer whales now, I recently watched a documentary. And on account of the melting ice in the Arctic in the summer, the ice flows are receding. They're becoming smaller and smaller every year.

So now orcas are now going into territories that they never had before. And the Inuit have documented that they've seen orcas actually hunt bow whales, which are 50 ton larger than an orca itself. And what they do is they isolate the animal. They bite their fins. They hold them underwater while another orca goes on top of their blowhole to try to drown it. I mean, this is amazing adapting. Wow. Yeah.

Jesus Christ. Well, that's where they got their name, killer whales, from killing whales. Exactly. A lot of people think they're a type of whale. They're actually a cousin to a dolphin. That's right. They're dolphins. They're just the largest dolphin in the dolphin family.

They eat dolphins too, which is kind of fucked up. Killer whales. Humans eat monkeys. Unbeknownst to most, killer whales are, and you have to sort of disassociate things. You have to sort of draw a line between killer whales being cute and loving and just how, if you want to use the word sadistic,

they are evil, evil, evil in the way that they hunt and kill. They are merciless, you know? Well, we have this idea of earth, you know, being like the smart things are supposed to be compassionate and we're supposed to be the stewards of the land and take care of the little chipmunks and all the other animals. But it's because we're so far ahead of all the other animals that we kind of, that's how, that's, you know, we kind of that's how that's you know we kind of feel bad and the way we treat each other we want to kind of treat other animals that way which is why you know animal rights organizations and all these these these people that really really love and care about animals that's where they sort of come under fire because they they want people to treat animals

different than animals treat animals so animals are fucking mean as shit to each other. And that's just the way of the world. One of the videos that stood out for me and actually was like a sort of a wake up call for me was just how was how nasty nature is. And it was a video that you actually shared and it was of a bear taking down a deer. And so when I. That dude's yard. Yeah. And that guy's backyard.

I mean, that's tough to watch. Right. It is. It was screaming. Yeah. The deer was screaming. The bear was just eating it like ferociously. Well, that's the thing about bears as opposed to cats. When a cat gets a deer, they go right for the neck and they kill it pretty quick because that's all they do. But bears do a lot of things. They eat berries and roots and plants.

So they don't always kill things. As a matter of fact, they probably eat more plant matter than they do animal matter. So when they kill things, they basically just hold these things down and start eating. It's a question of opportunity, I guess, if it arises. They're hungry. Well, they eat a lot of fawns. That's a big issue in Canada, where you're from, sir. That's right.

They eat a lot of moose, like moose calves and uh deer fawns they eat them like as they're coming out they actually smell the placenta and like the the you know the all the stuff that surrounds the baby and they'll find these moose as they're giving birth and just literally pull them right out of their body. Fucked up. You know, I'm an animal rights activist by, uh, I suppose that's this, the, the label that I've been given. But I should mention that, uh, there are a lot of animal rights activists that owe you a great deal of credit for, uh, for your sort of advocacy, despite the fact that there are, there's a stark line between those who believe in, you know, not killing animals and everything else. But then there are also other people that can appreciate how nature operates,

predator prey relationship, and can also appreciate that, you know, at least in what you've, in what you've said before, you yourself are opposed to the captivity of animals. I mean, the last time we were on, you mentioned of going to a zoo and maybe eating a pot cookie and

having a look at the monkeys and being like, you know, you're throwing bows through animals. And I very much respect the fact that the way that you hunt and the way that you eat is the kill what you eat movement or whatever you want to call it. And as an animal rights activist, I can say that that is a far more responsible way than,

you know, when I take a look at the factory farming things and whatnot. But I forget the point I was making. Well, I know what you're saying, that it sort of almost would seem like I'd be against them in some sort of a way because I eat meat. But the reality is a lot of animal rights activists have fucking cats, man. And they feed their cats cat food. And guess what? That shit ain't growing on a cat food tree.

You know, there's a reality to the world. And cats are brutal. Cats are vicious little fuckers. And they need protein. And if you have a cat, and I have two of them, I love them. They're awesome. They come cuddle with me when I'm watching TV. On any given day, I've got five cats.

Three that I claim as my own. Two that just sort of come and go at will. Wild cats? Well, one is. One of the neighbors sort of, I would say that he sort of neglected it in terms of how you care for a domestic cat. And when he moved away, he said, look, you know, you take care of this cat, which I did. On my second level balcony, I built this thing I called the Taj McKitty. It was this place where the cat could come live in the winter, right?

And it's real cold. And so he said, you know, do you want to keep this cat? Sure. So I got it fixed and whatnot. And he likes to show his gratitude by bringing us baby rabbits. If you've ever seen a baby rabbit, the cutest thing in the world. And he maliciously licks them down to the point of just chewing them until the sound stops and leaving them as gifts. And you can't help but love Eugene.

I mean, Eugene is an amazing and loving cat. He's also just a cold-blooded killer. That's why they're alive. We don't want to think about it that way, but animals today that are alive today in 2016 are alive because their ancestors, especially predators like cats were fucking vicious They were vicious and ruthless and they made sure they killed everything they could because if you don't kill that little baby rabbit There might not be anything left for you to eat that day and you might starve or you might be too weak to get away

From something that wants to kill you exactly you might be too weak to get away from a wolf or you might be you know Exactly. You might be too weak to get away from a wolf, or you might be, you know. We have a beautiful situation. We go to the store. We buy food that someone else killed for us, and we can get it every time. It's not like a rare thing, like you have to wait for it, or you have to put in a lot of effort to get it. Throughout human history, it's always been difficult to acquire food.

Until recently. Recently, it's become so ridiculous, you don't even have to get out of your fucking car to eat. You literally pull into a fucking drive-thru. You hand these people paper within seconds. They hand you already cooked meat in a sandwich, a ground beef sandwich. You put it on your seat. They give you a glass of liquid sweet shit. You stick that in your little cup holder and you're eating. That's insane. Never before in human history has that happened. And that lack of effort and lack of connection has bred a lot of people that have a really distorted understanding of life itself. A really distorted understanding of what it takes to make a ground beef sandwich. If know, if you want to

raise a cow yourself and go through that whole thing, I have a few friends that do it. I have my good friend Doug in Wisconsin. He grows his own cows. They're all grass fed and he'll, you know, he gave me some, some meat from it last time I was there and he does it all himself. He shoots them himself. I mean, he does the whole deed. He shoots him himself. I mean he does the whole deed He butchers him he hangs him the whole deed and that guy understands what it takes to make a ground beef sandwich But most of us is pulling to that drive-through. I think it's a privileged perspective It's people that have never had to do anything like that. Yeah put any effort in in raising their food I have friends that are farmers and it's the same story and they love and respect their animals through and through, but at the end of the day, it becomes a stake.

It sounds like a contradiction, right? You know, loving your animal, but killing it. I think in defense of anyone that likes to call out hypocrisy is that you have to take a look at the fact that there's hypocrisy in absolutely everything you do. I mean, the fact alone that, and I'm going to use vegans as an example, Um, if you, if you're going to look at what, what an abomination of nature is really the functions of society as a whole, a city, a city, a physical city is an abomination of nature. Yeah. So if you're a vegan and you're, for instance, uh, renting an apartment and driving a car, immediately there's hypocrisy in that. And then this is not me calling out the idea of living a compassionate life or propagating that. I think that's fine. I think it's great. I'd encourage that. I think the world needs more compassion,

but, uh, it's the judgment, right? It's the judgment. I think, uh, when you start looking from the perspective of someone who's privileged,

then. Yeah. The judgment. But I mean, the judgment comes, I think a lot of it, it comes from a real place where people are like, fuck this factory farming shit.

Fuck people who eat meat. You know, they get, they get angry, you know, they love animals, but it's just so hilarious when you have a cat that's feasting on a multitude of animals that have been uh raised in captivity all of them i mean the way they raise animals when you you're buying cat food man you're buying like the worst treated animals ever i've never even heard of like ethically sourced

cat food i'm sure it exists i'm sure i haven't heard about it but even ethically sourced cat food whatever man it's murder if you feed your cats plants and there are people who do that they they have organ failure they fucking get heart attacks they die they can't live but there's a lot of people there's a whole i's a whole, I found these people because, I found these people because they're hating on me after my last Comedy Central special where I did this bit about vegans. So whenever people get really mad at me, I like to go to their Twitter page and read what they're into. So I got these fucking people's Twitter page and I found out that there's a whole vegan

cat forum, vegan cat owners and you know hashtag cruelty free and these fuckers they they feed their cats plants and they don't live long they die i'd like to have a conversation with those cats i mean it would be nice if we could bridge that language barrier oh yeah if you roll the mouse by one of those cats they would dive on it like a like a draft like a man in the ocean that just finally got to land. It's a feast. Yeah, like if you just barely made it to shore, that feeling that you get when you get to land. I think there's a line. There's a line in all advocacy where how far are you willing to go?

And it's a question of, really, it's a question of how willing are you to sacrifice? I lived in South Korea for a while, and this is a country that was leveled back in the mid-50s. They had to rebuild from essentially nothing. And so I saw pig heads being served up on the side of roads, but I can appreciate that these people had suffered so much so that they had to eat everything that was available to them. And I don't want to sit here and defend that, okay, so South Koreans are eating dogs and whatnot. It's symbolic of their history and whatnot. But if you've got nothing left to eat, I'd like to see how quickly your ethics change, right? If you are truly suffering. And a dog, I love dogs. I have two dogs. But let's be honest about what a dog is. A dog is a little captive pet. They're your buddies because you feed them and you take care of them

and you have this relationship with them and you have this agreement with them. But if you ran into a wild dog, there was a couple, an elderly couple, I want to say like maybe seven or eight years ago that was killed by a pack of wild dogs in Georgia. Georgia, United States, Atlanta. You know, that

area. Of course. Like, what the fuck, man? Like, dogs will fucking kill you if they don't have any food if you if you think that they're like old yeller or lassie or some no what they are is exactly how you treat them from birth if you get a puppy like my dog Johnny I have a dog named Johnny Cash he's the sweetest dog of all time. He is so nice. He's just so gentle. He's just, he's a Mastiff and he's just so friendly. He just like anybody that comes over, I never worry about him barking at them. Or if he barks, it's like, Hey man, come play with me.

You know? And when you go up to him, you're like, what's up dude. And he's always like super happy and super sweet, but it's because I've had him from the time he was a baby. And the guy who bred him, he's always been really ethical about how he breeds these dogs. And they're very smart and kind. But it's because of the relationship that I had with him. He knows I'm the daddy. I give him the food. I give him the love. It's all this agreement.

It's part of their evolution. They're physically cute on account of the fact that we selectively bred them through. And they themselves learned that, hey, if I'm like really docile and cute and look with these big puppy dog's eyes,

I get more food and I get a better place to live and get a warmer shelter and I'm not likely to wind up in the backyard in winter, you know? Well, there was actually

a Radiolab podcast that was absolutely fascinating on raising foxes and they raised foxes. Yeah, you say foxes, right? It's not like deer. I think so, right? I'm not going to correct you.

I'm agreeing with you. Seems goofy. Seems like fishes. Foxes. Fishes, that's a word. Fishes is an acceptable word, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, but you can use the word fishes. Really?

I thought there was a large debate about this, and this was figured out back in the mid-90s. I swear this is part of my recollection. You might be right. I don't know um but anyway the radio lab about foxes they selectively bred foxes based on their behavior um based on whether or not they were aggressive and the ones that were aggressive they killed and the ones that reacted a certain way i don't remember the actual parameters that they set but ultimately what it was and if you're into this, Google it, because I don't remember the name of the episode, but it was amazing. Within a few generations, like within less than 10 years, they had completely changed what these foxes looked like.

Their ears had become droopy. Their jaws had become less pronounced and smaller. Their behavior was markedly different. They literally were almost a different species and it was in within 10 years things adapt and change and that's the reverse to that is and i think i heard it on your podcast is that if you were to release a wild or a rather a pig and then eventually starts growing hair again and like maybe protruding some tusks within six weeks yeah within six weeks a fucking month of a pig living in the wild and all of a sudden

their hair starts growing thicker and longer their nose extends their tusks grow larger they become a different thing they literally start to meta they start to adapt to the the the the physical shape of a wild pig like have you ever been around wild pigs? No, I've not. They're really interesting. First of all, a lot of them are black. They're like a dark, dark color. I'm not even talking about boars. I'm talking about... A boar is actually the term

for a male pig. So when people go to a menu and it says wild boar sausage, is it really? How do you know it's not a wild girl? It might be a sow. It's an ignorant terminology but then there's these Russian

boars. There's a different type of boar that lives in other countries. I don't know exactly what the genus is, what the name is. But the crazy thing is they're all interchangeable. They can all breed with each other. They're all the same thing, ultimately. There's sort of the idea of dogs as well.

Yeah. Dogs are crossbred all the time to sort of like pull out the advantages that we're looking for when we're breeding them. Yes. I know you can make a – I know they were breeding – I don't know. I can't remember where now. But they were selectively breeding this hunter of a dog, and they just made this mammoth machine, but also a docile, docile, and trusted creature. I wish I remembered where I read that.

Yeah, it's amazing that dogs are a lot like people in that way, that there's a lot of different variations of people. I mean, you've got Shaquille O'Neal, and then you've got Natasha Leggero, right? Little tiny Natasha. She's a comedian. She's like 100 pounds. But, you know, people vary almost as much as dogs do in that sense. We're all

sorts of different shapes and looks. But my point being wild animals, like a feral cat. I've had feral cats before. I had a feral cat and he was fucking nuts. Could you actually get near him? I could. Oh, yeah?

Only me. Like, literally only me. No one else could get near him. He would hiss and fucking run away. He would hiss at me half the time. But if I approached him real slow, but once I picked him up, oh, my God, he would start purring like crazy.

The fact alone that you got close enough to be able to pick him up is pretty rare. Well, what I did was I tamed him in a weird way. My friend Lainey, her boyfriend and her lived in this apartment. And they had down below. I went to high school with her. And down below their apartment, they found a cat that had given birth to a litter, a wild. And this is like Santa Monica.

So they're like, oh, my my god what are we gonna do so they decided to capture these cats and try to get them home so mean like the asshole that i am i said all right i'll take it so i took one of them i brought him home and he was so i thought ah he's a kitten i'll bring him home hang out with my cat everything would be cool i had two cats at the time and and He was so fucking different than them. He was like he'd look at you Just hiss and fucking jump up five six feet just mentally different. Oh my god. He was so scared of everything He was terrified. It was everything was a legitimate life-or-death struggle So I did do what the internet wasn't around back then so I was trying to figure out like okay How the fuck do I do this?

I've got to get to know this little dude. Food. Yeah, food, and what I did was I took this room in my house, I put a bed in there. It was like a guest room, so I already had a bed in there. But I decided this was going to be my room now. So, I closed myself in there, put a litter box in there, brought some books in, and I hung out with this fucking cat for two days. You're a brave dude, man. Just me and this cat.

I've seen cats attack humans, and it's violent, man. Yeah, but he was a kitten. It was a baby. Okay. It was a baby. I would have never done this with a full-blown cat. You can't. You can't.

A full-blown cat, you just can't train him. No, it's over. He was a little tiny thing. So what I did was I would pet him, and he'd purr like crazy. And then when I put him down, he would hiss at me and run away. Like, he was a little tiny thing so what i did was uh i would i would pet him and he'd purr like crazy and then when i put him down he would hiss at me and run away like he was so fucked up and i mean he would jump he would he fucked up my curtains jump through the air and grab the curtains and like i was like trying to climb them and shit it was like out of control i was like dude i was just petting you a few seconds ago but the life or death struggle that these things were involved in

even whatever he got from his mom and his dad like the genes that were passed down those are genes of wild animals that were really scared of everything and trying to survive so he thought he was about to get eaten yeah but he became my little buddy yeah took a while was there an element of you that sort of loved the fact that he was badass and scratching your curtains of shit or you like no hate it it was fascinating it was like like i'm i'm a big fan of just the idea of wildlife you know i think we live in cities and living in cities and driving cars and sleeping in nice houses and, you know, having a yard, it's probably as close to a lot of people get to nature on a daily basis. They've got a tree and some fucking grass in their yard.

When you're out in wild and you see wild nature, one of the most fascinating things about hunting is not just the pursuit of an animal that you're going to eat, but it's also spending a lot of time out there in the real wild like the real wild where a fucking elk lives you know and where a thousand pound animal lives its life with fucking trees grown out of its head and wanders through the forest and a couple weeks a month out of the year gets to fuck and the rest of the time it's just running from danger and eating fighting it's massively interesting it's so fascinating of the modern world you know couldn't care less yeah all it cares about is doing what it naturally does to stay alive and that's really where animals should be yeah i mean that's the premise of uh of what we're sort of

dealing with but it's just so fascinating when they're there i'm i encourage everybody i mean zoos are bullshit man they're bullshit they give you a stupid idea of what an animal is it's just so fascinating when they're there. I encourage everybody. I mean, zoos are bullshit, man. They're bullshit. They give you a stupid idea of what an animal is. It's just a business. They're there to make your money. They're not reintroducing animals into the wild. There's no program.

I mean, I don't want to say there's none. I'd like to hope that there are some. There are programs where they help animals. You know what it is? It's like there's some animals that are so far gone and need so much help that it actually benefits them to have some of them in captivity just so they can keep a breeding population alive. But ultimately, does that breeding population get reintroduced in the wild in any capacity? Some of them in some cases. They've done it with tigers, I know.

They've done it with some animals. It's hard. You know, it's fucking hard. I mean, I'm not slighting in any way people who care about wild animals. I absolutely care with some animals. It's hard, you know, it's fucking hard. I mean, I'm not, I'm not slighting in any way, people who care about wild animals. I absolutely care about wild animals. I think it's amazing. I mean, people think you don't, if you hunt or you eat and I get it, I understand, I understand where they're coming from, but this is how I try to look at it. Those animals are going to die no matter what ever they're all going to die. They're not going to live forever. I'm not talking about wiping out populations with hunting.

I'm not doing that, and I don't think any hunters are trying to do that. In fact, what hunters are trying to do and what they have done, there's more deer in North America today than there were when Columbus landed, and the reason is a bunch of things. But a big part of it is wildlife management. The wildlife agencies like department of fish and wildlife in in america department of fish and game they're they're very careful about how many deer they allow people to take and there's consequences for poaching like stiff

consequences they put you in jail and because of these rules and enforcing these ethics they've allowed these animals to grow in massive numbers. And then of course, there's also agriculture. Agriculture contributes to them a lot. The most deer population or the biggest deer population in America is usually around people. It's usually on people and farms, like some of the biggest deer in the world, like Iowa and Kansas, they're known for the biggest deer in at least North America. Canada is actually known for the biggest ones, but that has to do with cold temperatures creating larger-bodied animals because they have to generate more heat to stay alive. But my point is, I'm not a hater of animals

just because I kill them and eat them. In fact, I love them. I really do. I get it. I know it sounds contradictory, but what you're doing when you're eating an animal is almost like a sacred thing. When you hunt an animal and you kill it and you eat it, it sounds like such hippie horseshit or some pseudo-spiritual horseshit. But it is kind of sacred. There's something that happens.

When I cook a steak of an elk that I ate and I grill that thing and I eat it, There's a connection that I have to that meat that's crazy. It's incredible. You've earned it on different levels. You've earned it. I don't know if the word earned it is the correct word. You had to work for it. I'm connected to it. Sure.

I'm connected to that animal. I'm connected to where this meat comes from. I know that that animal ate from the grass in the forest and then I killed it and then I killed it, and now I'm eating it, and it's just like this weird, crazy cycle. I grew up on moose meat. My dad was a hunter, avid hunter. He went out there. I mean, I saw a photo recently of a...

Get up on that microphone, my friend. Sorry. Pull it towards you. You can pull it towards you. My bad. I saw a photo recently of my dad back, it has to be in the 80s, and he took down a bull moose. I mean, this was a massive animal.

The best of my recollection was just eating that animal. So, I mean, even the fact alone that I'm a meat eater. And, you know, people rarely now, back in 2012, this is a different story. But, you know, there's been largely a paradigm shift in how we view animals, especially captive animals. But, you know, I was called out quite a bit for being a hypocrite. Oh, you eat meat? Oh, you got leather shoes? You can't.

It's as if my message is worth nothing. It's like, well, you're not paying attention to the core of my message. Like, stop attacking the messenger. And that's the sort of defense I have against people who like to call hypocrisy in everything. Do you eat fast food? Do you eat store-bought food? Yeah, at my weakest moments. And I'm admittedly a weak man.

I tried not to. And last time I was on the show, I'd stressed that, you know, I tried to get away from pork. And still, I tried to make as ethical a decision as possible, but not at three in the morning. You know? It just happens.

It was just like last night. We were driving around, we were cruising around. We needed to eat. And we found our food and we gave them that paper money and I slept better. Yeah.

It's tricky, right? Tricky trying to stay alive. And the last time I was on the show i'd actually mentioned that i was uh had a hard time getting off cheese and it's recent it's interesting because recently i read a study that cheese may very well react to or your mind may actually react to cheese similarly to crack that really yeah they i wish i could quote it better again i'm not a scientist but i did read uh this article and it said that the more processed that a food is, it creates some type of fat that your brain itself becomes addicted to. And they actually referenced an addiction to crack and that it was similar.

Look at this. Cheese really is cracks. Jamie, you're on the ball. You need a raise. Cheese really is crack. Study reveals cheese is as addictive as drugs. That is fucking insane. Well, you know what?

That makes sense. Because I'll tell you what. Anthony bourdain um that motherfucker loves cheese and he's uh had notorious substance abuse problems in the past but i fucking hung out with him man the way he talks about cheese is the way young 22 year old guys talk about pussy now you know it's like it's it's like oh my god stinky cheese is stinkiest and better. Pull that up so I can understand that, Jamie. Let me pull it up so the text could read. This is fucking nuts.

For years you've been telling your friends, family, co-workers. What is the title of this? It's from the LA Times food daily dish by Jen Harris. And it says, for years you've been telling your friends, family, co-workers, and anyone who will listen that you're addicted to cheese. It's part of every meal or snack, and you think about it constantly. A few studies suggest that food addiction

is a real thing. The study published by the U.S. National Library of Medicine examines why certain foods are more addictive than others. Researchers identified addictive foods from about 500 people who completed in the Yale Food Addiction Scale. Huh. Okay.

Cheese happens to be especially addictive because of an ingredient called casein. Okay, it's a protein found in all milk products during digestion. Casein. Am I saying that right? Casein. C-A-S-E-I-N. Releases opiates. Whoa.

Called casomorphins. Holy shit. Opiates get released when you eat cheese. Really play with the dopamine receptors and trigger that addictive element. Wow. That's amazing. People are going to start putting some Kraft synthetic cheese in syringes. I don't know.

You know what I've been eating lately? I've been eating raw cheese. I've been getting raw cheese from the Whole Foods whole foods has the raw cheese which is made with raw milk it's fucking great man it's really good raw milk is great too it's the thing i've gotten away from the most i and growing up i drank a lot of milk a lot of milk i would say more than the average person now i can't i can't stomach it really yeah i just can't i have no urge for it whatsoever now so how do you eat cookies? Okay, there's when the hypocrisy comes in, right?

I'm the largest hypocrite. I admit it. Yeah, so you're right. So I guess I do have a dip, of course. And I've heard on the podcast before, and I'm going to accept some of the judgment that's going to come from it. But I've made the switch to almond milk and feel free to rant about how bad almond milk is for a, the environment, a, for all the almonds that are being wasted and the water use and everything else. I mean, there is a perspective that people like to say, oh, almond milk, that's a healthy

alternative. But if you look at it from the other side, the environmental impact and everything else, almond milk shit. So, well, it's not bad. It's just what almond milk, here's one thing that everybody needs to consider. When you buy almond milk and it tastes good, it's like, oh, this is so sweet. Look at the fucking label, bitches. All right?

Because I guarantee you that shit is filled with sugar. Duncan called me up. Dude, I've been drinking almond milk. It's amazing. It's so delicious. I go, okay. What kind are you drinking? He tells me the kind.

I go, look at the label and look how much sugar is in it. He goes, holy shit. He's like 18 grams. I'm like, yeah, every glass is 18 fucking grams of sugar. That's a lot of sugar. I think you're not supposed to have like if you're trying to be healthy. I don't believe you're supposed to have more than 25 grams of sugar a day. I think there's like a limit where you hit a limit.

And if you go over that, you're like, whoa, you're fucking with your body there. And this dude's getting most of that from a glass of supposedly healthy almond milk. Well, I don't drink a lot of it, admittedly, but it's the alternative. Yeah, I think it does taste good. It's got a nutty flavor. It's got a nice texture. What can I say? It's really bad when you're in a place like California, which is normally experiencing a drought today.

It's pouring like fucking crazy. We're in the middle of El Nino. I do not know if you know. This is El Nino and its effects. Do you want to warm the water? You think that there's no consequences to your actions? Wrong. El Nino is here.

I couldn't wait three days for me to... No, it's good. It's good. I like it. I like watching all these fucking dummies who have no idea how to drive when it rains out. That's one of the things I loved about when I lived in Colorado for the brief time when it would snow. It's like, ah, yes. I love the little consequences for living on Earth.

Nature is a thing that we avoid in California. We've avoided it. It barely exists. We go to the ocean, we're like, whoa, cool, nature. That's the only time. You can go visit it. You can go to the park and visit it. But it doesn't rain.

There's no weather. There's no consequences. I feel like water probably in California is, in a way, the glue that's going to keep the ground together because you guys are in a badass drought. I've seen these before and after pictures. And I'm like, wow. And I remember when I was repeatedly asking you to come back on the show, I'd be like,

I've got to get in there before California runs out of water. We're not out of water. We're right next to the fucking ocean. They just need to figure out how to suck that water out of the ocean and get the salt out of it. If we could put people on the moon, how the hell can we not get salt out of the fucking water? Stop making smaller phones. Stop adding new TV channels

to DirecTV. Figure it out, you fucks. Just get in there and suck that water out and let's turn this bitch into a rainforest. Start spraying that shit from the sky. All those chemtrail planes that all those wackos are worried about. Let's have those fuckers for real. Just fill them up with water and just dump it on us.

Just get those giant planes filled with water and just dump water on everybody. Surely a million dollar idea. I think it probably costs a little more than that. I was thinking of the earnings, if you can manage to figure out how to extract that. Well, they actually have a desalination plant that they are going online with this year, I believe, in San Diego. Is that this year? Do you know that story, Jamie? Apparently, they do have emerging technologies to extract salt from water, and they've used them in the Middle East

where they just have ungodly amounts of money. They just have so much money over there because of the oil. Some of these dudes have tried to use that money to create machines that can suck the salt out of the water and figure out some way to filter it. If Bill Gates can drink water from his own shit, you'd like to think that someone could... Is that what he's doing?

He did. Good for him. Invented a machine that extracted water from human shit, and there he was. From actual shit or from, like, sewage? like from actual shit or from like think it was shit I think it was shit. We'll use the word sewage just for the sake of making a little more broader spectrum of Christ Well, that's what you do when you have 90 billion dollars. It's bold Everybody's getting Fiji and Evian and I heard Fiji's not even really from Fiji those fucks. I heard that's bullshit

Yeah, I heard Fiji is just some fucking, just some spring water from the middle of nowhere. That plant opened up December 14th. Oh, it did open up. Okay. So it went online at the end of 2015. That's interesting. That's good. Huge developments.

Yeah. That's going to happen. That's going to fix the whole fucking problem. We're going to go, Jesus Christ, we were right next to so much water, you have to fly over it in a fucking plane, and it takes 16 hours to get to the other side. And I'm going to plead ignorant here, but why are we not just showering with salt water, or maybe extinguishing fires with salt water?

Why are we not using the salt water in different capacities that we're not imposing so much? That's a good question. To process it, the thing about salt water is it does corrode things really badly. If you're near the ocean uh i have a friend who has a beach house every time we go to hang out with him in his beach house like everything's like all fucked up and corroded like they're constantly dealing with corrosion because of the salt in the air it's just a constant moisture and salt together they just corrode the shit out of things that's why um where I used to live in Boston, the cars are always fucked up.

Like old cars, it's hard to find. Like if you want to find like a 1970 Plymouth or something like that, it's hard to find one that's in good shape. Because they're all rusted out from the salt that they throw in the ground when it snows out. You know, to melt the snow. That's why my cars are all fucked up. So the point being almond milk, the problem with almond milk is it uses a lot Of water yeah, they use a shitload a lot of almonds I guess you're extracting very little of the of the nutritional value from the almonds per capita if you will like versus like this mass

Amount right, but grinding it down fuck almonds. That's what I have to say dude fuck them Okay, so I eat almonds all day not care about their life. That's the thing about life. We don't really We don't really care much about plant life. We want it to be there, but we don't think about it the way we think about animal life. Like we want animal life to be there, but we don't want anybody to kill it. Like plant life, the only time people get bummed out about plants is when someone chops down an ancient redwood or something like that. Like, oh God, how could you?

And again, I've read somewhere where plants can actually hear when they're being eaten. And I've seen some studies or rather i read something somewhere again where a plant has a similar hunting uh behavior as animals where they're actually the roots will physically chase or get find their nutrients so you know some would argue that uh that plants are just as conscious or conceivably conscious as uh as well. Well, they're different in the same way that humans are different than dolphins. We were talking about the intelligence level of an orca versus the intelligence level of a person. We would like to think that we're smarter than them, but there's no evidence of that. If we lived in the ocean, we would look like fucking idiots.

If we were swimming around with them trying to stay alive, they'd be like, look at these dummies with their fingers and their exposed dicks He's their dicks gonna eaten by crabs these fucks They can't even sleep in the water like what are they gonna think I'm just gonna die they would think we were retarded Right, so that's sort of how You know we look at their life and what they're doing like they're perfectly adapted to revive well a tree is perfectly adapted to its environment. And there's been a lot of research done on plant intelligence.

And there is a lot of evidence to suggest that these aren't inanimate objects like a rock that just happens to get larger every year. No, these are living things. They're living things that do calculations, that somehow or another communicate with each other. They let other plants know when they're being preyed upon. They develop methods in order to discourage predation, and that's where poisonous plants come from. All poisonous plants come from discouraging predation. That's what it's all about.

plants come from discouraging predation that's what that's what it's all about it's funny because one of the cruelest things i'd ever watched and maybe it's because i have a vivid imagination but is if you've ever seen a venus flytrap yeah like slowly dissolve uh you know it's prey it's like wild shit pretty evil yeah well there's one that eats rats There's a fucking plant in the Amazon that looks like a giant tulip that eats rats. Pull that up, Jamie. This rat-eating plant. And it's a plant. It has like a sickly sweet smell to it, apparently. And these animals go in it looking for food.

And they go... They just close in on them. They don't bite and kill them. They slowly envelop and dissolve them. Just smush them. Just trap them, in on them. They don't bite and kill them. They slowly envelop and dissolve them. Just smush them. Just trap them, smush them, and then absorb their nutrients. Break them down to the very molecules and protein and liquids. I'm going to get 250 people with signs on a plant's doorstep.

Protest them. Well, plants are alive, man. We need to eat living things. Life eats life. Life feeds on life. It just does. And what's going on now with animal rights activism and PETA and the Animal Liberation Organization is people who care.

That's what it really is. Whether they're misguided, whether I agree with them, they're people who care. And they're people who feel deeply about these animals. Check this motherfucker out. Watch this shit. That's hunting behavior, for sure. Look at this. That thing may as well be fishing.

What happened? We went... There we go. Here we go. So this thing, it has like this open leaf. And these plants... What are we watching here? This is like a fast speeded up version of it. So what happens is

Is it growing here? Is that what we're watching? I thought Final Countdown was about to play. I thought I heard it. I found another video and it was way too quick. It was just a mouse falling into a plant so I didn't want to go with that. And this one was a guy in front of one. Okay, but this is um, we're watching the whole fucker grow. This isn't so this is what happens This is this is where it is it opens up and it looks like well almost like a hamper We throw your clothes in or something or strange green vagina. That looks like a snake like that's crazy Yeah, well there's a lot of that in the animal world

This is all just growth though. We're watching like high speed, but we're not gonna watch it eat anything Jamie We're gonna have to find another video Well when these things open up they open up and the rats are attracted to the smell and they climb in that tube and when they climb in that tube they wind up dying show the one that uh That has a here goes eats a frog here go. This is perfect. This is the one Mmm, this is gonna close right up on it. It already did. Jamie, just watch this.

Just do it from the beginning. Here it goes. Watch this. He's just hanging out. Like, what's that smell? Let me just chew up. Jesus. And then it eats him.

It's over. Yeah, it eats. And this is a new plant. They've only discovered this fucker, I think, like five or six years ago. And eats um, eats frogs, all sorts of things. Look at this. Watch this. Look at this Venus flytrap. That's a rat, bitch! That's cold-blooded, man.

That is so fucked up. Play that again. Good God. That fucking frog. Look at it. He's like, what's the smell? That is so crazy. So it's one of the, for me, anyways, that's one of the toughest things to watch. Look at that.

Look at that. I think in the hours that poor animal is going to be just laying there incapacitated until ultimately, well, if it's suffocated, then it is what it is. I didn't know a Venus flytrap could do that. I didn't know they ate a frog. Is that a different plant? Or is that a Venus flytrap? It looks like it. It has the fingers.

It's just, that's what those plants have figured out is their method to get ahead. That's their hustle. Their hustle is they trap things and they suck them into their body and they eat them. They survive, they evolve, get bigger, get stronger. Yeah. Those are predators, man. These are carnivores. So look at these, look at these fucking ants getting killed by this plant.

Oh my God. There's so many of them man there's so many different weird ones look at this they roll up these ants oh this is so creepy it looks like a giant green tongue with like weird sort of spikes that grow on it and the spikes lift up and wrap around the ant or the fly here in this case and just trap them. And once they have them trapped in there, he's stuck in the stickiness of the, look at this with these ants. And then it wraps up and rolls them up like a burrito. It's fucked up, man.

Yeah, nature's a tough place. Nature doesn't give a fuck. But I think nature is beautiful. I think it's amazing i think if you really want to see nature the way to see it is obviously documentaries and dvds if you want to stay in your home but to actually see the physical animal go somewhere go somewhere and see them go see them in their natural environment that's where you're going to get a real respect for them absolutely yeah i'm taking um one of my my elk hunting trips this year.

I want to take my kids with me. Not when I kill an animal because I don't want to make any noise. I don't want to have to quiet them down because it's a very patient thing. And it's something that will be very hard for a five-year-old to do. Would you take issue with them seeing the kill itself? No. They've watched it on TV. Yeah, sure. They've seen the meat. They've seen me butcher meat. No, they've watched it on TV. Yeah, sure. They've seen the meat. They've seen me butcher meat They haven't seen me kill the whole animal, but they've seen me chop up a giant elk

Backstrap and turn into steaks in the middle of the kitchen just sitting there with a cutting board slicing it up and they ask questions There's a disconnect between that meat having been a live animal. It's a no no Well, they've seen me on television kill animals on a TV show. Okay. So they know that I do it. They know that I have targets in the yard. I'm always practicing arrows and archery. But what I want to do is not even the hunting aspect of it. I want to take them so they can see the elk. When elk are rutting and they're screaming, it is amazing.

It's like you're in Jurassic Park. It's like you're in Jurassic Park. It's like you're in some Hobbit movie or something. When you're in the hills, what I want to do is I want to plan a week of hunting, and then I want to pay a guide just to call in the elk so we can just watch them. I just want the kids to see what it's like when you make this noise. And then you see this fucking thing. It looks like a giant forest horse that comes up and wants to fuck. And they're screaming.

They have this crazy wail. It's amazing to watch. Outside of hunting. Like, separate that. Like, that's all great and everything. But just being a part of the environment, like stepping on the ground where these things live wild and all they're worried about is like mountain lions and bears.

And that's what they're doing. They're trying to stay alive. They're trying to get laid and they're, they're existing in this very bizarre world that we rarely get to see. Yeah. We can't really truly appreciate it because we don't have to worry about it. We don't have to worry about what their concerns are anymore. Well, even like look at Africa, man.

They have these tourism things they do in Africa, but a good percentage of them are in these high fence operations where they've sort of fenced in these animals in these giant contained wildlife sanctuaries. And the animals thrive in there, but how do you do you see you mean the way you see them is you get in a jeep and you drive around and even if the it's something there's something fucked up about knowing that they're not they can't leave even if it's like 10 miles in every direction there's a fence and they would never roam 10 miles in the wild the fact that there's a fence at all the fact that we've gotten our greasy little hands in their world, it kind of changes it in a way. Well, it's funny because I actually witnessed a rutting deer, a male, of course, trying to enter the premises of Marineland and there's a large fence around it.

And this thing was so, I mean, a rutting deer is actually a pretty dangerous animal. I mean, they are, they are, their sexual urges are far beyond any type of like, it just trumps any behavior that they would have. So this thing was smashing. It must have been smelling the females inside the park, but it was repeatedly smashing itself against the fence trying to get in to the point where it ripped half its face off. Its antlers were getting fucked up. So we actually called a hunter who had been in the back, like who had had the permission by the owner of Marine Land to hunt inside some wild deer. And we went and got him and he came, put the first bow, went

directly through the animal, didn't kill it, got a second bow and then put the animal down and killed it. And then we ate the sausage sometime later, of course. Yeah, they get crazy. Moose are super aggressive when they get horny. They're dangerous. I've been in Algonquin Park at times when the moose are rutting, and that is by far

the most dangerous animal out there for you. I mean, you don't want to get anywhere near a rutting moose. They're so big. Have you ever seen one in the wild? I have, yeah, of course. God. The first time I saw one in the wild was in the middle of British Columbia in the forest. And it was like, the first one I saw was a female, and we saw them in the distance. And it was like, the first one I saw was a female.

And we saw him in the distance. And I was like, oh my. It was like that scene in Jurassic Park where Jeff Goldblum lifts his head up out of the Jeep. And it's like, what? Like, you can't believe how big they are. They're like, the males get to 1,800 pounds. 1,800 pounds.

Like, the biggest elk that I killed was around 1,000 pounds. So imagine something fucking twice the size of that I killed was around a thousand pounds So imagine something fucking twice the size of that drive your car under loose. Yeah, that's crazy Yeah, well my friend my friend Mike Hawkeridge who runs big country outfitters up there He got chased by a female moose on a horse He was on his horse and the female had the calves with him which is when they get really fucking dangerous and they get aggressive and The horse was running and the fucking moose was gaining on them

And he was like holy shit, and he realized like oh my god like this is fucking this could be it It's good then the horse kept its cooler kept its its footing at least that yeah fucked up scene Oh, yeah, well if the horse slipped and fell or if the horse said fuck this guy on my back like i'm out i don't think he could i mean he had a saddle and everything like that i don't know if the horse is that smart point being i mean what we're saying is uh almond milk is bullshit that's what we're saying yeah that's the bottom line almond milk sucks it's all right so um what has changed since the two years that you've been here other than there's a lot of public acknowledgement and understanding now that it wasn't available or wasn't it sort of wasn't at the level that it is now i think people are much more outraged now

about sea world and about marine land and just the idea of captive orcas and dolphins and in your case walruses well so the first thing we did was we managed to ban uh orca captivity in ontario that's that's done now so marine land will never and mark my word they will never acquire another uh killer whale whether it be uh wild caught or not so that was a big win for animal activists if you will or anyone for that matter has any invested interest in the well-being of animals. Just as of January 1st, we're 2016 now, there are standards of care, which is what I actually petitioned the government for back in 2012. Because when I came out and sort of revealed Marineland for what it actually is behind the scenes, during that time, there were no standards of care. You could literally have dug a hole in your backyard, filled it with whatever you want, and then, you know,

plunked yourself some dolphins in there. And that was fine. There were no standards of care. There was no oversight in any capacity. That's changed, albeit the letter of the regulations that we have now, I would say that few people are really satisfied. There's still lots of work to do with them. But the fact alone that they are now legislated, we'll be able to, uh, to change some of the, the, the, the parameters, you know, the, one of the biggest things that there's in fact, water quality parameters. Uh, when I, in the last eight months of my tenure at Marine land, I was witnessed to, um, some of the more horrific things that a, that caustic water can do to animals. Uh, I witnessed dolphins lose their skin. I mean, the skin was flaking off, literally flaking off their skin.

And we're not talking about it, just a regular slough. There was some permanent eye damage that was done. What happened was there was a breakdown in a disinfection unit, a water disinfection unit. We used to use ozone in conjunction with chlorine. Ozone mitigated the use of chlorine, so you didn't have to use so much of it. And when that machine broke down, the resolve was just keep pumping more chlorine, keep pumping more chlorine,

chlorine. And because we were in the off season, the public wasn't seeing this. Okay. And this is 2012. I had an old shitty Blackberry, but I knew I was conscious enough of how bad things were that I started snapping photos,

taking videos. And, you know, there was a major complacency from management because, Hey shit, we're not opening again for another eight months or six months, whatever it be. I think the issue started in October and they opened in November. And so there were no parameters.

There was no oversight. There was nowhere for me to run to find help. Now there is that. So now Marine Land has to adhere to new legislation that will require some capital investment from them, which of course is something that we like to hear. But there's at least some stuff in place. And most importantly is most recently, there's a Senator, a federal Canadian Senator,

a liberal Senator by the name of, of Willie Moore is what we're actually the hashtag. We're saying a free Willie Moore. It's sort of a, in the hopes of sort of getting Justin Trudeau's attention. And he's introduced a bill. It's called the hopes of getting Justin Trudeau's attention. And he's introduced a bill. It's called the Ending of Captivity of Whales and Dolphins Act.

It's Bill 203, I believe. And this bill, once it passes the Senate and ultimately passes into law, is going to ban both the import, the breeding of all whales, porpoises, captivity, or rather, and whales in captivity in Canada, basically putting a shelf life on marine land in the capacity that they do business now. This is a bill that I'm urging people, look, if you give a shit about animals in captivity, tweet Justin Trudeau, our recently elected prime minister.

And yeah, we're really trying to, we're looking forward to moving this thing forward. Beyond that, it's always a question. It's always a thing about what I call the paradigm shift. People don't want to see, don't want to visit zoos no more. Attendance at Marine Land is annihilated. Now this doesn't stop him from exacting

a gross revenge on me, but nonetheless, we're still afloat. We're still here three years later amidst all these bullshit lawsuits, as I stressed before, these slap lawsuits, strategic lawsuits against public participation. When I got sued, I had hoped one day we'd be in court. Here we are, well over a thousand days later, and I've spent, well, I say I've spent, but we've publicly raised a lot of money.

We've spent collectively over the three former animal trainers that are turned whistleblowers, we've collectively spent over $100,000 and not had a single day in court. So it's all just trying to drain you legally. Joe, the fact alone that I'm speaking into this microphone is exactly what Marineland doesn't want. I'm dangerous to the anti-captivity or rather the captivity industry because I know a lot of things. Of course, SeaWorld was, if you want to use the term, in bed with Marineland. SeaWorld likes to acquire, because in the States you can't acquire

wild-caught animals, what SeaWorld would do is they would get the animals that Marineland would import, so Marineland would import wild-caught belugas from Russia, breed them, and because the calves were bred in captivity, they could now be moved to the States. So this was how SeaWorld in the States was trying to continue to acquire these animals. And this is exactly what this bill is sort of trying to stop.

So that's one of the things that SeaWorld was full of shit about, because SeaWorld was trying to say, we haven't done, like one of their commercials was saying that they haven't, they haven't caught a whale. Or they haven't brought in a whale in 35 years. Yeah, they haven't captured a whale from the wild in 35 years. There's a number of examples of that being bullshit. One being a wild-caught orca, or what they deemed rescued orca named Morgan, that was captured off the coast of the Netherlands.

It was, you know, it was by itself. It had left its pod or it was, it had lost contact with its pod. And so it's a, it's a dolphinarium called Dolphinarium Harderwijk. They acquired this animal and then what they did, or they took it and they called it rehabbing. And then they, of course, deem it non-releasable. They sent it to a place and it's outlined in, in Blackfish, in fact, because there's a, there's a large, the documentary Blackfish. There's a relationship between SeaWorld and a facility called in Tenerife. It's called Loro Parque. So what SeaWorld did was they

had that animal, Morgan, the wild orca, transferred to Loro Par Park. And now it's actually part and listed as part of its collection. That's a wild caught animal. So SeaWorld will sit there and tout this idea. We haven't done this in years. And yet they're, they're importing wild, wild caught animals that have just recently bred one, the babies from Canada. And then they're, they're basically adding to their, to their stock stock of animals this other wild caught animal. So we could talk about the bullshit that SeaWorld spews all day.

But the nice thing is most people are now conscious of it. Most people look at it and say, I mean, every time SeaWorld tweets anything, they get a lot of fucking hate. Because people know now. They know. They're essentially a slavery organization. Yeah, I can't disagree. And saying that we haven't captured a slave in 35 years is still disgusting There's the idea that that's a that's okay

That they can just say we haven't participated in slavery Catching slaves in 35 years. We just keep them here locked in a tiny little have you ever seen the map? I'm sure you have the parking lot in Juxtaposition to the actual area where the dolphins get to swim. The most heartbreaking one is when that pool is right next to the ocean, when you can see it physically right there.

There's a lot of facilities where the dolphins are spy hopping and they can see the sea. It's right there. The ocean is right there. It's a question of picking them up and throwing them back in there, right? Fuck. Why can't they make it so that they can go back and forth? Why can't they make it so that they can have, like, set up a facility? This is the way you can make it so these animals can transition back to the wild.

And that if they do decide to come and participate in shows, they could do it on their own free will. Have, like, an open area where it's connected to, like, a dock. Where the pools and the areas where the animals swim, they should be examined by some marine biologists that deem it ethical. This is an enormous place. As long as you don't keep them in here, but they can do their stuff in here and everything will be fine, and have it be actual ocean water, and then have an open portal

so you don't have to worry about them starving to death in a while. They can always come in and get food anytime they want, and that way you can kind of keep both things happening. Like they develop a relationship with these animals where it's an actual real relationship. It's not captivity. They come because they want to get food, sort of like squirrels at the park or something. This is exactly what animal rights people, if you will, and scientists these days are advocating for.

They want seaside sanctuaries where which these animals remain in human care and are available for people to watch. Of course, you're going to have to stop the breeding. The breeding's got to stop. Ultimately, you want to phase this out completely. Unless they want to fuck on their own in front of everybody. Well, I'm going to guess that scientists are going to want to try to stop that,

but that's what people are advocating for, really, is these seaside sanctuaries. But SeaWorld keeps saying that, oh, there's so many pathogens in the water and it's going to make these animals susceptible. Again, it's all bullshit. What does that mean? Well, it means they think that they're going to become susceptible

and be sick, or that the transition itself from captivity into this new environment is going to be too much to stomach. Well, where was that logic when they were plucking them out of the ocean and putting them in these concrete tanks, right? Well, they're going to have to adapt. If they change the laws and they make it so that that's just the only acceptable solution, then they'll adapt. There was a law introduced a couple of years ago by, his name was Assemblyman Richard Bloom. And it was a bill that ultimately was going to retire all the orcas in San Diego to seaside sanctuaries.

The issue that was raised is that there are no seaside sanctuaries yet. And so the bill ultimately died. Well, fucking SeaWorld, use your money, bitch. You have a giant facility. You obviously made money off of those things. How down are they right now? SeaWorld? Yeah.

Well, their net worth, or rather their company valuation when they did their initial public offering was in and around $2 billion. And basically that's down to, at one point it was down to 1.5, so now 1.7. So animal activism, if you will, has really caused them a lot of harm financially. That's pretty small, though. They're still worth a lot of money. Well, of course, they're still worth a lot of harm financially. That's pretty small, though. They're still worth a lot of money. Well, of course, they're still worth a lot of money. But for a slave organization to be worth over a billion dollars, that's kind of fucked. And then you could buy stock in the slave organization?

Yeah. What the fuck, man? I watch that stock price daily. They're fucking slaves, man. Have they rebounded? Is that what it's showing? It's up today. Depending on where you're at.

They're up today. That's because of us. Yeah. Well, look at yesterday. Look at yesterday. it's showing? It's up today. Depending on where you're tied. They're up today. That's because of us. Yeah. Well, look at yesterday. Look at yesterday. That's people who don't like me. Fuck Joe Rogan. Yeah, I'm going to get a lot of that, too.

Pump your money in the SeaWorld. Yeah, there's an investment. Yeah, well, it's not going to be around in 20 or 30 years. No, you're right. It's not. You're right. It's more, the more we do research into the language of these things to the more scientists I mean they've been trying to you know John Lilly was trying to get them to speak

Human he was trying to get them to speak human languages like way back in this. I guess it was like the 60s Yeah, and he even set up an experiment where a woman lived in sort of this bizarre home where there was water. She spent most of her time waist deep in water. Yeah, when she wasn't jagging off the dolphins. That was the problem. She jacked off the dolphin because dolphins get horny. She was like, well, this is a distraction.

Let me just jerk him off real quick. Everybody's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What the fuck did you just say? Thankfully, we've come a long way since then because clearly that was just a question of the animal mimicking. I mean, the idea that this animal is going to adopt the English language over and above. But to be fair, the mimicry itself was pretty impressive. Pretty impressive.

And I've worked with dolphins, and I never actually tried to have the dolphin mimic my own sound. But with what I was watching, I watched the documentary as well, it was pretty impressive. Yeah. It was pretty impressive. Yeah. It was pretty impressive. Very. But the idea that that was teaching

or trying to bridge the communication was pretty, I mean, that's out there. Well, it's all Lily could come up with back then, at the time. First of all, he was on acid almost every day. I mean, Lily was a fucking maniac. He'd take ketamine and he was the guy that invented the isolation tank.

I mean, which is one of my favorite things in the world. Yeah've yet to do it I can't wait to though. I'm gonna how long you here for I'm here till I leave Friday morning I could set it up hell. Yeah, I love that. We'll set it to set you up with the end of the Float lab there's a new place in Pasadena that just opened up. That's the largest place in the world. Yeah, very interested Yeah, we'll look it up. I'm fantastic. What of town he's staying in where you're here uh we're gonna be in venice beach oh jesus christ that's where the float lab is oh how about that dude that's perfect i'll call that we're gonna call them right after this i'm gonna set it up i'm ecstatic because crash is the best i've heard that he's been on the podcast before he's a fucking maniac i love him and he kept the float business alive um with

innovation back when no one did um i had a guy who was fixing my tank and um you know i had an old samadhi tank which is one of the original tanks and it was starting to deteriorate a little bit because i'd had it for a while and um this guy told me like this is crazy guy in venice that's making these tanks it's just they're just so much better than anybody else's little pods. Is it or like full square rooms? I mean, no you get into like it looks like a small meat locker That's what it looks like you open a door and you climb in he has a bunch of different models You have some that you got a got of got a kind of bend over when you get in But mine is like seven feet tall and like nine feet long. It's huge

I've heard you say that you find it like incredibly therapeutic and just clear your mind take you to places where you can think over when you get in, but mine is like seven feet tall and like nine feet long. It's huge. I've heard you say that you find it like incredibly therapeutic and just clear your mind, take you to places where you can think clearly. I could definitely benefit from some of that. It's great for that. It's great physically for your body too. I'm like, my back like opens up and relaxes. I feel like I can like pop it just by like stretching my shoulders up. It just goes pop, pop, pop because everything's just relaxing.

It's a great source of magnesium because there's a thousand pounds of Epsom salts in the water. My older one was like 800 pounds, but the bigger one requires more. So it's a thousand pounds of salt and that Epsom salt, when your body's floating in that,

your skin is absorbing the magnesium. It's super healthy for you. You just feel great. You get out of there, you feel great. And if you go in there like I do, you trip your balls off in there. I went on mushrooms on New Year's Eve. Took mushrooms.

I was cleaning my office. And I'm like, look what I got here. Do I do this? So I ate the mushrooms. And then I didn't take a big dose, but I took enough where I started to get fucking really weird. I waited about an hour until I couldn't take it anymore. I was like, I can't be around people anymore. I gotta get fucking really weird. I waited about an hour until I couldn't take it anymore. I was like, I can't be around people anymore.

I got to get in the tank, and then I got in the tank. And the tank was good to you? Yeah. It was wonderful. It was embracing. It just sent me on a voyage. It just sent me on a voyage through my mind and got me in this very positive groove.

It was a good trip because it was a New was a new year's eve trip it was like like new year's eve's bullshit really at the end of the day who cares you know it's just another day man like what is in your but rituals as i'm getting older and more experienced i used to reject anything that was established because uh my life wasn't so good when i was growing up and i thought that everything that was everything that everybody wanted and everything that everybody's working for was all bullshit degrees are bullshit and rituals are bullshit and fuck you I'm a rebel. You know I can appreciate that perspective But as I get older I Recognize the benefit in like a new beginning in your mind like this year

I am going to do this this year year I'm going to like how many people It's hard for people to actually retweeted something today from Neil Strauss Who's a really brilliant guy and it's an article that he wrote about strategies and systems that you can set up To make sure you don't fall into the same traps and sabotage yourself in cycles. Yeah, which a lot of people do But you don't fall into the same traps and sabotage yourself. Same cycles. Yeah, which a lot of people do. But you don't have to. The idea, here it is right there, why you need a Ulysses strategy for 2016. People have this thing in their mind that this new day and this new time is going to be the start of their new diet.

They're going to quit smoking. They're going to start exercising. They're going to get their life in order. And they go at it with these earnest intentions, but very few continue that process. And the problem being we're creatures of habit and we have these comfort zones that we've sort of set up. and we have these comfort zones that we've sort of set up. And when you set up those comfort zones, you set up these established patterns,

it's very easy to fall right back into them. It's very easy to be a lazy bitch. Wasn't it John Lilly that was studying the different levels of consciousness? Now, he himself said that there are these cycles that you have to try to make yourself conscious of and try to break these cycles. I know I myself find myself too often sitting in a bathtub feeling pretty down on things.

I'm like, you know, maybe if I get out of the fucking bathtub, go for a jog or something. I wouldn't feel like this, right? Definitely would help. Going for a jog is one of the best pieces of advice anybody could ever give you. If you ever have something that's fucking with you, just go for a run. Get those endorphins flowing. Get that blood pumping and put things into perspective.

Yeah, your mind starts to change immediately. You actually start, the language that your mind beats the shit out of you with changes and suddenly you start getting resolves and answers

to your problems versus like dwelling on them. I've, myself personally, I have gone for runs and I don't run that much but, and I ride my bike like, you know, in the dark,

when I'm amidst the darker depths of hell and every time i come back saying good thank god you went and did something right well i think we associate as a human being we associate dilemmas and physical problems like like issues like bills or um lawsuits in your case all these we associate those things with a physical thing because our bodies are used to any fear or danger from the time we were monkeys. It's always been a physical danger. There's never been like a social issue until recently. I mean, until the last few thousand years when human beings started talking to each other, the real problems that we had were all,

they weren't fucking bills. It's more instinctual. Yeah, it's like there's a physical problem So when you develop stress and anxiety you have this physical response to that like holy shit What's going on and then you don't do anything with that physical response that physical response never gets fed You never run you never exercise you never. And so your body just gets into a deeper and deeper level of funk and stress. And the physical exertion, all that seems like a meathead thing to say, like, yeah, just got to go to the fucking gym, pussy. Fucking walk it off. But you really do. You really do. And if you do do that, you will feel better. Like some of my favorite people are people that do juiu-jitsu Because jiu-jitsu is such a life-and-death struggle on a regular basis with people you love and care about it's a bizarre thing

Like you know when you roll with people that you love like your friends with you slap hands And they try to fucking kill each other and you're going to war. I mean, it's it's Exhausting so when it's over you drained. So other bullshit of regular bullshit just seems way less significant. You still have to deal with it. You're still a person. You still live in the real world, still have taxes, still have problems, still have lawsuits. Yeah. Your situation's very, very extreme. My situation is extreme. In fact, if you don't mind, I wouldn't mind sort of offering a perspective of just how fuck things are. Yeah, please do. So shortly after I was on the podcast, and I don't know if you recall, you probably don't.

You see a lot of tweets. But I tweeted you a video of the owner of Marineland, who's the man that's suing myself and a number of other people to try to stifle our advocacy and essentially punish us. And the video was of him driving past our home. And, you know, I uploaded it to YouTube and whatnot. And then shortly thereafter, there were more videos and then neighbors started taking photos when I wasn't home. So he drives by and just threaten you? Slows down. Well, I assume it's to intimidate my girlfriend and I, he has a history of doing this and I want to touch a little bit on that in a moment, but I just want to give my example to begin with. Do you have those videos on YouTube right now?

Yeah. Can we see it? Sure. What's your channel? I wouldn't mind showing you a couple of them. Just Google John Holder, J-O-H-N-H-O-L-E-R, and you'll get videos, footage. I mean, there's a pretty elaborate history.

We've unearthed a lot about sort of how he operates. I'm getting a little nervous talking about this, Joe, right now because I know the consequences of which are going to cost A, a lot of money and cause a lot of anxiety where I'm going with this story. Well, when does this fucking lawsuit get resolved?

Here's the video. We're going to watch the video real quick. So this is you looking out the curtains. So I live at the end of a dead end street and across from me

is the water. It's a beautiful place. I love it. He's trying to take from me my home essentially but I saw him come by and he stopped in front of my house i armed myself with my old blackberry camera he went down the other road and you see him now coming back so he speeds up and right here you'll

see slows right down and he just wants to intimidate of course he has no idea that i'm there of course i present myself and i'm just like like what you want bruh and then there he goes so he drives off when you come near? He drives off. Oh, what a pussy. Yeah, well, that's the same pussy you like to put a lot of bullets in. Well, he shot those dogs, if you don't recall my telling you. A couple of dogs wandered off to his property. Boom, he filled them with shotgun pellets.

Anyways. So do you know for sure that that's his truck? Absolutely. And, in fact, we got him in his new vehicle as well, license plate, the whole works. The police, in fact, set up a surveillance camera, two of them. They caught him independently, and don't quote me, but I'm going to call it 12 times.

The police refused to lay any charges because they said, A, driving past someone's home isn't technically a criminal harassment, despite the fact that we were like, look, the man's suing us. He's dangerous. I mean, I knew the man, at least historically, to have had a shotgun in his vehicle. He's got a lot of reason to not like myself and my girlfriend, who's on any given time alone in my home.

So nonetheless, the police wouldn't do anything. We took that information and went to a justice of the peace to try to lay what's called a private charge. Not a charge, but we just want him, a summons, to come into the court and explain this behavior. This is normally a 30-day process. Marineland's lawyers managed to get in an appeal to the summons, which is largely unprecedented.

I mean, I guess people with money can skirt the law, but nonetheless, it took a year and a half. The judge ultimately decided that this issue shouldn't be decided in the criminal court. In fact, it should be dealt with in the civil matters. So he quashed the summons. So the owner didn't have to come in and explain himself. And now I'm waiting any given day now because the lawyers already informed my other lawyers. Now I'm waiting any given day now because the lawyers already informed my other lawyers.

They're seeking a cost motion where I'm to pay the legal fees, which they're claiming upwards of $100,000, to try to get this summons against him. His stalking leads to my trying to lay a private charge, if you will, or whatever, private summons. He gets it quashed and now he wants to put me on the hook for his legal fees. So he's just trying to drain you financially. It's a war of attrition, and it's like, he's just trying to crush anyone that's showing any type of opposition. Now, I know the last time you were on, you had like a GoFundMe or something like that, and people contributed.

How do we help you? What does that address? So recently I had to retain a new lawyer. Two of my lawyers have left, and these were ultimately the ones that were working really at a cost effectively. They're gone. So I had to retain a new lawyer. I don't ask for a lot of money from people,

but I do ask for a lot of people. As long as we've got money and our lawyers can work, this lawsuit has to run its course, and at some point, and the judge has already said, has already criticized Marineland for taking as long as they have. Now, Marineland wants to say, well, this is the behavior of the people, of the defendants. The behavior being that we tried to seek some protection from this man that took a year and a half. The lawyers are trying to allege that it's our behavior that's delaying this process. And yet here we are two years after I was here and not a single day later.

Of course, significant legal fees. But we recently got a very generous contribution from some animal rights organizations that are running little fundraisers for us. We used to have what you would call a benefactor, which was Sam Simon. He's co-creator for the Simpsons. He was giving us a lot of money. Unfortunately, recently he passed away. So that sort of ended,

but yeah, largely it's the, it's the, it's the public support. This is really quite unprecedented to have a litigation funded by crowdfunding. Yeah. It's really unheard of. Well,

it's an important one. So what is the address and how do people get, we're going to put the address on YouTube. So if you're listening to this on YouTube, it will be in the description of the podcast. And I'm also going to put it on Twitter. And so we'll have it as available as possible. If we can put it in the iTunes description of the podcast, we'll put it in that too. What is the address and how do people get to it?

It's savesmooshy.com. Smooshy being the walrus that I had the anomalous relationship with. So it's S-A-V-E-S-M-O-O-S-H-I.com. So again, I'm not funding just my own lawsuit. I stuck my neck out and said, I'm going to pay for all these lawsuits. Because some years ago, and I'd mentioned before that I won Wipeout Canada. So there was a period where I actually had a good chunk of change in the bank.

So when these lawsuits started to fly, I just started cutting checks. Just started cutting checks. Well, that didn't last very long, right? So really it is the support of the people. But if you don't mind my touching a little more. So here's the page. Oh, cool.

So Save Smooshy. No, that's savesmooshy.org. Go to the.com one. Yeah. What's the difference? The difference is that was just a website that I had created for sort of like ongoing fundraising. Why doesn't it not exist? No, put it all together in one word there, savesmooshy.com.

It did. It didn't work. No, it should. That motherfucker closed down your website. Oh, yeah. Oh, he's trying to shut down my Twitter. Never mind. Is he?

Okay, here we go. Savesmooshy.com. What is it? It needed a www? Well, it forwards to a GoFundMe. That's probably why it needed a www. Defend animal abuse whistleblowers. So right now, you've got some donations, and there's a donate button.

You can share it on Facebook and Just let's let's fucking pump this up folks just to stress that that's in Canadian currency not to scare anyone because a lot of people Go over just like well. What's this see next to the donation? Why don't you guys just stop using your bullshit money and use ours cut it out. It'd be nice. Yeah, that's for damn You're connected to us. Let's cut the shit God damn it Mexico to cut the shit. God damn it. Mexico, too. Cut the shit with your pesos. If I can just touch on a story that I think it's important in the realm of public opinion,

or rather consciousness, to know of. But this isn't the first time that the owner of Marine Land has stalked and intimidated people. In fact, some years ago, a woman named Paula Millard was living in a trailer park that the owner of Marine Land actually owned that was across the street from the park. And he had promised them all that he was not going to move them or displace them. And this was going to be their home for a long time. A lot of retirees there. People put some permanent investment in their properties. Well, ultimately, he did elect to kick everyone out.

He had the city's support, which is not, again, we're up against a lot of forces, if you will. Well, one woman was having none of that. She was refusing to move and the owner would repeatedly drive by and intimidate her. And ultimately what she did was she had written on the wall, she had written, John Holder, may you get exactly what you deserve tenfold. And then she thereafter committed suicide. Yeah. I think it's important to tell that story. It's because it illuminates sort of who he is.

Allegedly. Allegedly, of course. I have to say that. Yeah, me too. Well, we're going to help you, man. We're going to pump this fucker up. Joe, I've said it before and I'll say it again. We're really still in this game because of you.

And heartfelt appreciation for having me back on. I can't tell you, and the timing is right, because we have a bunch of different motion dates coming up. I appreciate that, but I also appreciate what you're doing. I think that guys like you are super important for this. You, in particular, you're probably one of the most important because this whole thing that we're experiencing right now is essentially our civilization is awakening to the horrors of the past. And we're doing something that's really fucked up and not right. And we've been doing it for a long time.

So we think it's OK because we've been doing it for a long time. And this is sort of the same thing that they experienced with slavery. I mean, slavery had existed for a long fucking time and it took a bunch. I mean, people think like you're exaggerating. This is, this is not slavery. These are animals. No, they're insanely intelligent animals. They're, they're so much different than a fucking puppy. They're so much different than a squirrel. They have a cerebral cortex that's 40% larger than human beings. We don't know why. We don't know what they're saying. We know they have an insanely complex language,

but we don't know what it's... We don't know what the meaning behind the sounds are. We don't know. We've recognized dialects. They have different dialects in different areas. We know that they speak differently in different parts of the world. And I can, I can personally offer perspective of having had a really strong relationship with an animal, like my anomalous relationship with Smoochie the

walrus. And I'll just do a quick, uh, summary of it is that she, at one point believed that I was her mother. I mean, she still does. It's innate now. She thinks that I'm her mother. It's I'm tattooed on her brain, right? I've imprinted on her. So I got to appreciate what it was like to raise this animal in that unique opportunity. And in that, the language, and I wish John C. Lilly would still be around because I think that he himself would be calling a lot of bullshit on what's going on. He'd say, this is a fucking catastrophe that you're, you know, what's being imposed on us, the separation, everything else. But I got to learn what it was like to teach an animal to have a sense of humor, for instance. I mean, this walrus has a sense of humor.

This walrus knows me intimately, whether I raise my voice or I lower it. She knows me in a sense. Like a dog. No, I'm going to say far beyond a dog. I'm going to say far beyond a dog. Do you want to go outside? This is an animal that could appreciate

when there was real threat against me. We used to joke around, and the way that we discovered that she was so protective of me that people come really close to me she would beat the snot out of these people i mean she'd come into like a fucking 200 pound bowling ball and displace you but she knew when i was messing with someone or when someone had grabbed me and it appeared to be a little more violent it would i mean her reaction did someone grab you in a violent way the owner's son in fact and uh yeah the owner's son came over one time he just didn't believe what was going on and he grabbed me and he didn't grab me in a smooth and fun way he grabbed me and shook me smooshy never forgot his face a she'd fuck it she was there was a there was a

gate between us so she smashed up against those bars really aggressively harping on him yelling everything else and even in the weeks and months to come every time he'd come any any even remotely close to me or in the room, she was ready to pounce. It was amazing. How fast does a walrus pounce? Can you call it pouncing? I wouldn't call it pouncing.

They kind of waddle, right? They're pretty fast. They're a heavy animal. Actually, I can say that I've, I've, and not just myself, another, other former trainers have actually rescued the owner of Marineland from, from walruses that were, that were about to attack him.

There's a video on YouTube, which is actually hilarious, where he's out on stage, obviously yelling at a trainer to bring out more animals and everything, and a walrus breaks from him and starts going towards the owner, and he turns around and starts booking, and the walrus stops, and he turns around and he grabs his water and he throws the water, and then the walrus goes and he sort of tucks away behind this sort of safety door, and I'm just like... What what a cunt i couldn't wait for him to get knocked down

man oh it didn't happen whatever oh but there was a number of examples of that actually there's another video if you don't mind um look up uh if you google john holler again you can get to a place where he's actually uh confronting a an activist who's just there offering on public property, which has now since been leased to the, to Marineland by the city. He's handing leaflets with information while they have a, they have a conflict, like they have sort of a coming together and John Holder in plain English threatens to stab him and bury him.

And of course the, the activist who's Mike Garrett, he's a fantastic guy was, was, you know, he's, I'm assuming he saw, he tried a fantastic guy, was, you know, I'm assuming he tried to keep some sense and keep things as light as possible, but John just has a conniption. He's yelling his arms and up.

I mean, John's a little guy, right? He's got what I call a little big man where he's just, but anyways, he goes off. And this is all because the guy is protesting against marine land? Well, we use the word protesting, but more than anything,

he's handing information. He's handing a history of marine land, but it happens to be at the end of the park on public property. But nonetheless, you know, the city obliged and released the land to them. I mean, it is what it is. Marine land's operated for 53 years above the law.

There was no laws. There was nothing. Now there are some, thankfully, and things are turning slowly, but if you could find that video. If not, that's all right. Joe, while I've got... While we're just here, I'd like to show you this.

Oh, yeah. Let's take a look. So here he's like, oh, look, we're hugging. And then here... That little guy's the owner? That little guy's the owner. And that's his hired goon on the... Right there.

All it is is information. That's all. All it is is information right there. Public property. See John all we doing is asking people don't have to take it. A whale. An idiot. It called me a whale earlier. Let's stick with the program. I can see John getting a little furious here. Thank God John doesn't have a knife or else he'd bury me right here, as he said. When did he say that, though? Oh, he said it earlier in the video.

Oh, let me hear the beginning where he said he'd bury him. This is the closest I've ever been to evil in my life. Like, literally. Come on, he's just doing his job, man. You're lucky you don't have a knife. You're lucky you don't have a knife. I'm lucky you don't have a knife. So you would stab me if you had a knife. Wow.

Oh, you'd kill me right here. You would bury me right here. You wouldn't even bother to put me in the mass graves. Come on up, folks. It's just information. That's all it is. It's just information. John doesn't want to stab me and bury me here just take the

leaflets he's a great guy mike's a great guy i'm trying to support him as well he's being sued of course he's actually having his wages uh garnished because marine land what they do is they use these lawsuits and then they propose all these different motions so it's like sort of a function inside the lawsuit well what happens during these motions is it can go either way, right? A lawyer can win a motion against another lawyer, whether it be a bullshit lawsuit or not. But what happens is in that process, there becomes a cost award. So unfortunately for Mike, he got a cost award against him, and he couldn't afford whatever the price was.

Of course, Marine Land will say an inflated price. They say, well, this cost us $25,000 to have to bring him in here. And so the judge awarded $10,000 or so. Mike's having his wages garnished now. This is not a man who broke the law. This is a man who opposed the policies and the practices of Marineland. And this is because of this right here?

Because of that right there. So he's having his wages garnished to the tune of how much? I think he said 30% a month. For how long? Or 30% per paycheck. He still owes quite a bit of money. How much does he owe?

I think he owes in the range of $6,000 or $7,000 at this point. And he just lost his lawyer. We actually had similar lawyers. He's looking for a lawyer. So this is a public plea. If there are any lawyers in Canada that are looking to make a name for themselves and help ourselves or Mike Garrett, like, yes, please get involved. And if you do help, I'll tweet it out.

If you do help, I'll put it up online, and I'll let people know that you're doing a good thing. Joe, while you're here, I just want you to take a look at this print we've had made. This is from just an absolute sick graffiti artist named Ewok out of Brooklyn. It says, Save Smooshy, Fuck Marineland. Is that that t-shirt? This is this t-shirt that I'm giving to you. So I'll hold it up.

Yeah, this is courtesy of Lofty Towers. This is a place in Niagara Falls that generously printed it for us. And then, of course, Ewok One. You've got to see this guy's work. It's fantastic. And it's basically, if you look at it, you've got the walrus smoochie who's basically giving the finger to what appears to be an old man who's with a shirt that says, bury me with my money, who's got some shackles around it. And it sort of looks like it says, fuck marine land on the bottom.

I don't know if it actually does. So that's the old dude, supposedly? I don't the bottom i don't know if it actually does but um so that's the old dude supposedly i don't think i don't know i have no idea it doesn't look like him right good totally not him no not can't possibly be him definitely not slave but there's a nice shirt for you to wear when you're doing some gardening or raising your chickens in the back i'll use that for sure it's much man it's i hate hearing stories like that i hate hearing i hate hearing what's ultimately human failure that's like a civilization failure societal cultural failure this this old creepy fuck that's getting away with i mean you could just tell him that video he's disgusting and this whole thing is disgusting This guy wants to continue his slave business. And he's out there himself getting his own fucking hands dirty.

He's worth more money than I can even conceive. And yet all he wants is the power. Well, he's so old, too. Like, if I was worth that much money, does he have a wife? He has a wonderful wife, in fact, yes. Wonderful. Yeah, she's a very nice kind person. If I didn't costa rica

yeah exactly right all about hookers and coke until the heart stops he likes to hunt you think he'd just be out hunting steady like just go do the thing that you like the most but what he likes the most what appears to be is to be a tyrant you know i watched that uh episode of you and lance armstrong i thought it was really great it really humanized the situation he was in but the thing the thing that he expressed the most uh the regret was when he ultimately was uh was uh i forget the word he used but like throwing all these lawsuits against yeah he fucked up he fucked up that that was a fuck up but that was he had done that i would be 100 in support of him that's the i mean because you know it's like have you ever seen the bill burr bit where he's on Conan where he talked about it?

I haven't, but I'm learning about Bill Burr now, actually, and I find his comedy amazing. One of the best ever. That new show that he's got. F is for Family. I watched an episode the other night. It's really good. It's on Netflix, folks, if you want to watch it. It's an animated series called F is for Family, and he's just a great guy.

He's just, he's the real deal. Bill Burr is the real deal. He's just one of guy. He's just, he's the real deal. Bill Burr is the real deal. He's just one of the best guys ever. And he had this amazing bit about Lance Armstrong being that like, you know, basically his words were, our psychopath beat your psychopath. Like the whole fucking sports on steroids. They're all on drugs. And it's true. He became the face, unfortunately.

He was pegged for being the guy. And I mean, he had all the accolades. He had the image. And which also means he had the most to lose but the thing that he expressed most was he regretted uh yeah he fucked up i mean he was trying to keep this whole thing going this guy what he's doing is just normal it's what people do you know when power when people have established power they try to protect it he recognizes all the benefits that he's had for that power, and he doesn't want to step down and relinquish it. And also, if he did, he would have to somehow or another admit that what he was doing is wrong.

And I assume that Marineland is still making money. It still makes some money, yeah, a little bit. Is it down? Attendance is down significantly, yeah. Good. And funny because tourism is up in Niagara Falls. But I think if you guys really want to get a good perspective, there was a podcast that I was recently on called Canada Land. And it's a big podcast.

It's hosted by an investigative journalist, Jesse Brown. And he's very meticulous and very thorough in his work. And he's detailed this exchange between he and Marineland's marketing. No one put a name on it. It's got to be Marineland's lawyers. I don't know. But nonetheless, if you want to see how they operate and how far they're willing to go to suppress what I say and the information that we provide, do go to the Canada Land podcast and check it out. They've threatened to sue him.

They've vowed to sue to what they call judgment. And that's a quote. But that's just the way they operate. If you, I mean, you yourself, Joe, and I hate to say it, but it would be a dream if they threatened to sue you. It's not going to happen. Why would they sue me? First of all, I'm a fucking American. You can't sue me with your goofy kangaroo court.

He's suing Americans. Because I'll tell you to suck my dick. He's suing Americans right now. I'm trying to threaten them. Look at that. And I'll drive by his house. I'd fuck. How about that?

I'll just say nice things to him. I won't even threaten him. Yeah, that Canada Land podcast really details it all. It was really well done. I just think the whole thing, it's eventually, when you look at it historically, I think my friend Amber Lyon had a great quote when she was talking about when she used to work for CNN. I love this quote. It's being on used to work for CNN. Um, it's,

I love this quote. It's being on the wrong side of history. Yeah, exactly. And that's what this guy is. He's on the wrong side of history. Yeah. Like when it all boils down,

you're going to look like an ugly monster. Yeah. I don't know what he's trying to, what type of legacy he's trying to protect at this point. And the funny thing is all he's doing is making lawyers rich. It's not making me broke. It's not working. I mean,

to a certain extent, it is doing what old rich fucks do. They sue you, you know? I mean, that's common practice. That's their avenue of getting back at you for talking. He exists in a different world. He is an old man, and he's born in a world where there was no internet,

and he's experiencing the ramifications of this time that we're in, and also the new information that exists now where we understand that these practices that they've been engaging in for decades are cruel and inhumane and disgusting. They're disgusting. There's no other way to say it. Yeah.

Marine captivity of mammals like that is fucking disgusting. Yeah, indeed. Where is it going to go, man? Like, how long can this guy keep dragging you around the courts? Well, unfortunately, there was some changes to the Law Society's laws. And where it used to be, I believe, three years of inactivity in a lawsuit, you can file a motion to have it thrown out. That's been extended as of, I think it was March of last year to five years. So we got a lot of things going against us. So you have two more years of inactivity before

they could sue you. I mean, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, but this is my understanding of what was an opportunity before that is no longer there. But the idea is at some point he himself has to play by the rules of the courts. He's going to have to be examined. He's the one that's got the information that we want. We want to go get that information. This is information that Marineland is steadfast right now in isolating or rather insulating any type of witnesses. I mean, he himself is a witness to all the things that he's alleging against us. He should be the one that is responding to the lawsuit.

Instead, they give us this glorified janitor. Well, what the fuck does this janitor have to do with our lawsuit? We want to look at your financial files. You're claiming financial losses in the region of 1.5. What's the janitor? What are you talking about? So what Marineland does, and this shouldn't surprise anyone, is rather than be like, okay, look, I'm suing you. So you can take a look at my files.

I'm going to present to you the net losses, financial losses that I'm claiming. And then you're going to have to defend against this information. Well, instead they gave me this janitor. What the hell has that got to do with anything? We don't want to... They gave you a janitor for what? To look through his... He's going to give us the files, apparently, that we're looking... that is going

to give context to the lawsuit. It's nonsense, Joe. It's just another means that I have to fight and spend a lot of money to try to get to the root of it all, which is the legitimacy of the lawsuit, which there is none. I'm being sued for plotting to steal a walrus.

That's what it's all about? Plotting to steal Smooshy? My lawsuit is plotting to steal Smooshy. My girlfriend's lawsuit is defamation in the sense that she expressed concern for the lone remaining killer whale, Kiska, which was bleeding profusely from her tail and her talk with the Toronto Sun, or rather the Toronto Star, which is the newspaper that revealed all the sort of, that did the investigation of marine land. So she's being sued and they had a video. And in

the video, you see the killer whale bleeding like crazy. I don't know how you can call that defamation. And then there's another lawsuit that's going against Jim Hammond. He's a former land animal care supervisor, and he's the one that witnessed John Holder shoot the dogs on his property for no reason. I mean, that can't be defended. It's indefensible. These were

golden labs. These are puppy dogs. They're not coyotes. And these were his neighbors. And the neighbors were afraid to press charges because they thought that John would sue them. They probably thought, right? I mean, the police themselves said to me, we can't lay this charge on him because he's going to lawyer us.

He's going to lawyer up. Oh God. Yeah, it's really a stonewall they're putting up. So he just, that's his strategy. He just sues. It's a war of attrition. He's going to sue everybody. But I don't understand what he's,

I don't understand how the courts are allowing him to sue for this. This doesn't make any sense. Because we've gotten nowhere in terms of trying to prove the legitimacy of it. It's just the process itself, in and of itself, is punishing to people like me. So his idea is not, let's go to court. It's, let's put him through the ringer so that he goes broke. And ultimately, the only way I can get out of this lawsuit is if I sign something, say, I'm not going to talk anymore.

Well, fuck that. I'm not going to not talk. I'm going to continue to talk. I'm going to continue to get my ass on these podcasts and spread my word and get a louder and louder voice. I mean, that's my resolve. So you think ultimately this has to somehow or another come to a trial? It absolutely has to.

Or he has to drop the charges. And then you would have to sue him. I am suing him. He's yet to respond to it. This is something, again, that normally lawsuits have 30 days. This has been three years and they've not responded. Well, how does that work? How come you have to respond but he doesn't have to respond? What they've

done is essentially, or what I believe they've done, allegedly, is they've hijacked the process is what it's called, where you just inundate the courts with a bunch of different things. And every time a court date seems to come up, it gets adjourned. Or we do, in fact, I mean, recently I'd lost my lawyer. He's moved away.

So I was having to find another one. Marine Land pounced, immediately called for a motion. All of a sudden, okay, so now I'm defending or now rather it happened to my girlfriend that she got, had to go in. Now, rather, it happened to my girlfriend that she got had to go in. But my court date ultimately did get adjourned because my girlfriend was successful in actually having the motion adjourned, despite the fact that they're continuing with these motions. It's hard to explain. I'm not a lawyer. I can't really get down to the nitty gritty of it all. I can only just offer you the perspective of someone who's being punished unjustly with a process that just is inherently abusive.

It's an abusive process. It's really discouraging. Welcome to my world, man. And I'm still trying to put food on the table. I mean, I still got a life to try to live. I mean, here I was 30, 35 when this thing happened. I'm 38 years old. I'm going to say, what?

So I get to look forward to resetting my life and try to pursue some personal endeavors at what? 45? Is that when? Is that when I finally get to be freed of this thing? I mean, I'm an activist. Yes. So I get to look forward to resetting my life and try to pursue some personal endeavors at what? 45? Is that when? Is that when I finally get to be freed of this thing? I mean, I'm an activist. Yes. Okay.

Call me an activist. But you know, when this is all said and done, I'm also a human being that wants to do stuff in life. What are you doing for work these days? I do some, actually recently I was a pallbearer for hire. That was interesting. A lot of people don't have families. So I'd get a call and they'd say, you want to come help carry this casket? Okay. Absolutely. Jesus Christ. Carrying dead bodies.

That'd be great for the book. That's another thing. That's the problem. Writing a book. Well, absolutely. Yeah. That's a problem. Well, it's a problem because getting a publisher is tough right now. I mean, if you're going to publish my words, you're going to be sued. You know, I assume there was a documentary that, that, that was in its initial stages. It is gone. There was a big story in Outside Magazine that was coming out. This was the feature piece. It got quashed. A lot of people show fear when it comes to lawsuits.

Thankfully, Ontario passed what's called anti-slap legislation. We got the thing. And I'd mentioned this in the earlier podcast. We were getting anti-slap legislation. The problem is, and there's a major conflict of interest, is that Ontario's premier, she herself, had a slap suit against one of the MPPs during the elections. She launched a lawsuit so that they couldn't talk about this controversial issue, which was this gas plant scandal. And so what she did when she reintroduced the bill is that she took out the retro clause.

This was our home run, dude. We were out. Not only that, Marine Land was going to be up against some major punitive damages, like as per the letter of the law. They took out it being retro. It's no longer retroactive. It doesn't apply to us.

It's insanity, man. Just because of this one woman? Well, she's the premier of Ontario. Fuck her. I can't say that. That's not going to help me. What's her name? I appreciate it.

Kathleen Wynn. Fuck you, Kathleen. How dare you? Hell yeah, man. How dare you? Remember, I didn't say that. How dare you? Felt it, but name? I appreciate it. Kathleen Wynn. Fuck you, Kathleen. How dare you? Hell yeah, man. How dare you? Remember, I didn't say that. How dare you? Felt it, but I didn't say it.

God damn it. Oh, it's cruel, man. What I've come to learn involving yourself in any type of government process and everything else is that it's thankless work. I mean, it's fucking brutal. And it rarely to ever actually goes your way. I swear to you, I've had an arrow striking the bullseye and every time it just glances. Every fucking time.

But I'm not discouraged. Look, I'm on this fucking show, man. This is a dream come true. It happened again. I cannot fucking believe it. So good things to come. I just got to keep focused. Good things to come.

It's just so bizarre that no one from the government recognizes what a horrible thing this is. Not just in terms of the injustice that's being done, but also in terms of the PR for their legal system. It is recognized. It's been expressed at Queen's Park, in provincial legislatures, that these are abusive lawsuits. And we had an MPP stand up, Sherry DeNovo, and she's just like, when is this going to stop? I mean, she's pounding her fist and everything else. And what happens? Well, unfortunately, it was a political issue,

and she's not a member of the Liberal Party. She's part of the New Democratic Party, and that's the – You guys have a Liberal Party? It's hilarious. We have a Liberal Party that's in power across – on both the federal and provincial legislature. Your king is a Liberal, right? King?

The king? You guys have a king, right? Justin Trudeau? Yeah. I like that guy. Hey, he's the one that's going to legalize marijuana in Canada. He seems like a cool guy. I've seen him talk.

I'm like, I wish we had a candidate for the United States president like that. He's the one who we're trying to get attention to see if we can't get support for this bill we're getting to ban the whales and dolphin captivity. Well, he definitely should be a part of that, and he definitely should step in and do something about what's happening with you. Have you guys tried to contact him about that? i've not but that's this is something that's governed with by um ontario provincial yeah yeah yeah so he there's nothing he can do about that but they did he's the king he's the king yeah that's right heavier is the crown yeah what the

fuck you can't just step in you'd think you'd tap on the shoulder now granted uh uh i remember touring a lot of uh public figures and uh in and around during my time at marine land including jean chretien who was a former prime minister's son who still goes there so there's still some uh government ties to marine land of course he still goes there like he visits he brings uh some people to to scuba dive with the uh with the beluga whales people people with with physically and stuff. It's a great program. Right. But that I know of,

he was continuing going up until 2012 at least. I don't know that he still goes. I haven't been in the park in that long. It just seems like Canada has so many great things going for it. And when I hear lawsuits like this that are so insane, that last for so long,

and then that your counter lawsuit doesn't get any traction at all. And then no one's paying attention to it. I just don't understand how they can allow that to happen. That's a good thing. There's a lot of people helping us, right? I mean,

cause it appears that it's going to be the will of the people versus the will of the government. Yeah. Fuck man. Don't discourage me, man. I know, I know how I'm,

I hold, I'm, I hold deep in shit, man. I know. It's just a uh it's so frustrating it's so frustrating as a an observer as an outsider looking at this and saying man this is just so strange it's so strange that in this day and age this can happen and someone can

get away with this he hasn't gotten away with it yet i ain't done but he's getting away with what he's doing so far so where i mean Literally the government should shut him the fuck down. They should have stopped this lawsuit They should have enforced your lawsuit against him. They should arrest him for stalking the whole deal the whole deal It's just it's it's all disgusting. I've become quite jaded and I and admittedly I believed even when we came out that there would be some type of justice I mean, that's what we were seeking of course course. Right. Wasn't doing this for shits and giggles. Money is draining that justice. When you speak to power, you can expect some serious consequences.

It's as simple as that. But it's so insane that the charge is attempting to kidnap a walrus. Correct. And trespassing. And here's the challenge. And I offer this to all your millions of viewers and listeners. You find a single video of the last day. I can't remember shit your millions of viewers and listeners. You find a single video of the last day. I can't remember. Shit. I think it was April. I think, I believe it was, uh,

oh shit. Why do I not know the date of this? Let's, uh, let's call it October 17th, I believe 2012. Marine land alleges that I broke into the park with these legions of animal rights activists, which actually did happen. Not, I wasn't there. I was on public property. I did not go into the park, but you know, did not go into the park. But hundreds did actually storm the gates. And what Marine Land alleges is that I trespassed in there. And there's tons of videos. I mean, you can get 15 different vantage points.

If any single person finds me in that video, I will personally cut you a check for $1.5 million. If that doesn't get you going. You don't have $1.5 million. How about you offer to blow them? Well, I don't have $1.5 million. Offer to blow them. Okay, I'll blow you. I'll blow you.

Well, it's not going to happen, right? It's not going to happen. So don't worry about it. There's no video of it. They're going to Photoshop you in there just for a blow job. Fuck. Someone's going to use that CGI shit they did with Avatar. I think I can negotiate my way out of it.

I'll give them $1.5. Just give them a hand job. Marine Land thinks they're getting $1.5 out of me. That's what they want? $1.5 million? Yeah. Out of the guy who essentially is... Put it this way.

That's what they're trying to sue you for? $1.5 million? Yeah, that's the guy who essentially is... Put it this way. That's what they're trying to sue you for? $1.5 million? Yeah, that's the damages they're claiming. What's that in real money? In terms of... Like outside of Canada. Like America. Where it counts.

Oh, let's call it a million bones. That's a million bones. Your money's worth more, isn't it, right now? It's worth significantly less. That's why I'm drinking all the free beers I can while I'm here. We'll send you some. Thanks, man. I don't think it's legal. Can you send beer

across the border? Probably not. It's probably a drug. It is a drug, right? Well, we'll see what Justin Trudeau can do about that. Man.

So, have you gotten any traction on any other shows? Like, anybody else reached out to you? Well, that Canada Land podcast was timely and big, and it was great.

Did they get a lot of downloads? Yeah, and it's still going. and big, and it was great. Do they get a lot of downloads? Yeah, and it's still going. It only was published two weeks ago. Okay. Canada Land is what it's called? Yeah. And do you know what episode it is? It's called Everyone Loves Marine Land. Okay, Everyone Loves Marine Land. It's their second most recent.

Send people to that. What about American podcasts? Abby Martin, thankfully, has had me on a number of times. I mean, and through the show, I've received quite a bit of support from what I would call some real badass, awesome people. So I'm most appreciative. But beyond that, no, there's really quite a bit of fear of my speaking.

Mostly in Canada, right? Mostly in Canada. A lot of fear in America. Outside Magazine, they quashed that story. I mean, this is going to be a big feature. How did that happen? Do you know? Do you know what the mechanism is?

Yeah. So the writer was staying at our place. And at the time, I believe, there were people watching us. And I had specifically said, because his rental vehicle was parked across. And here he was sitting on the couch. And we were talking, talking. And I looked. And it was a truck that repeatedly drove by and stopped and went to the other end of the street turned

around i said fuck you're being you're being watched like and he's just like you know i think at this point he didn't truly appreciate the depths that we were in and at this point i don't we weren't even sued yet and uh sure as shit marine land named him by name the author and uh and that was it so he he wouldn't i mean he tried to get the article to run, but Outsite ultimately said, we're not interested in being sued. Now it's a different time. There's anti-slut legislation now,

so Outsite, if you're listening. Well, why didn't they just shut their fucking mouth until they published it? How did they find out about it? He was asking current and former employees to see if anyone would speak and then obviously there was someone i went to okay you know when you live when you worked in an oppressive sort of regime if you will you're quick to try to score bonus points i assume the former trainer or someone probably said hey this guy's calling around

looking for something what other businesses that guy have they're all in-house businesses but yeah he's got he owns a lot of property he has he owes no one any money there's no outside uh financial interest whatsoever he has the soul controlling mind it seems like a guy like that needs to come to jesus moment where he just realizes like what am i doing my life is i mean he's at the later stages of his life and he's living like this suing people it's all anger and evil and i hate to mention it but a couple years ago a few years ago and this was my greatest ally his son actually passed away and this was the guy who actually allowed me into the park when i when unbeknownst to me i was no longer allowed there he let me in and that's when i saw you know smooshy in the condition that she was in that ultimately inspired me to sort of

speak out and and not be anonymous and uh he shortly thereafter actually passed away. And he was my age. How did he die? I'm afraid to say, but I'll say that it was, I believe it was avoidable. I think that when you live under an oppressive and difficult situation, especially with regards to your relationship with your father,

that maybe you resort to methods to ease that pain maybe. To sort of, I don't know, maybe forget your woes. So something drug related. I don't know. Oh, you don't know. Okay. I understand what you're doing.

Yeah, cheers. It's cool. Thanks. So what's the next step? What happens now other than us tell everybody to go to save smooshy.com throw some money around the next step would be nice if maybe pita would step up i mean you know it's in terms of hypocrisy pita likes to to use our headlines and to raise money for themselves on their websites and they'll donate here look how do you say marine lands animals donate here

we've not received an iota of help in fact i asked them look can i just get a tweet out of you guys and they said oh it's a non-profit We've learned that That doesn't help Wait a minute hold on So they say donate here To them To help you And the money goes to them

No no no To help them They don't They don't ever say to help you To help you It's just that they use The stories They'll be like

Oh mass graves Found at Marineland And then you know There's the article And it's horrifying Phil Demers says Donate here And then donate to PETA

Here's the donate to PETA Yeah it's tough man Phil Demers says, no, no, no, no, no. Donate here and then donate to PETA. Down at the bottom, here's the donate to PETA. Ooh. Yeah, it's tough, man. Well, they're too busy killing cats and dogs. And tweeting you on Orca Day. Yeah. I mean, tweeting Joe Rogan,

the guy who's throwing arrows into every animal that, you know, and they're asking you for retweets. I actually thought that was brilliant. I'm like, wow,

PETA's like really, they're sort of showing their true colors. Well, they know that I do love orcas. Yeah. Fair enough. I also just love to eat deer. Right.

Fair enough. I don't throw hours into everything, man. No, that's fair. Only edible stuff. But, I mean, they've retweeted things that I've posted up about orcas and particularly about my loathing of orca captivity. And I think there's new laws that have been passed in California, right? So recently, SeaWorld, so what happened with SeaWorld,

they had to ask permission from the California Coastal Commission for a $100 million expansion of their pools, of the existing pools. What they've said is, we're going to eliminate the show which is not true it's not true in any capacity what they're going to do is create a new environment a larger one which is good but they're still going to have a presentation of sorts that's going to rely on you know animals performing more natural behaviors but still there's going to be food deprivation in the train it's going to be you know it's the same thing it's just it's it's it's presented differently so what the c in the train. It's going to be, you know, it's the same thing. It's just, it's presented differently. So what the California Coastal Commission said was, look, we'll grant you permission to make this large expanse, but you can't breed orcas anymore.

So what SeaWorld basically said was, okay, well, A, they've considered not doing it altogether. B, now they're suing the California Coastal Commission, alleging that they've overstepped their boundaries. So they want to keep breeding them. Exactly. Doesn't that tell you everything? All of a sudden, they're not going to create this large habitat for the existing animals that they supposedly care so much for, but if there's that clause

for breeding, no, they're not going to do it. That says it all. Really, it does. Wow. So they're not going to create the new larger environment just because they're not allowed to breed them. Because they've got this clause. Well, they're going to sue, I assume, to try to have that overturned, which I hope the California Coastal Commission would reconsider their approval of.

They should step it up and just make the whole fucking thing illegal. Jerry Brown. Come on, Jerry Brown. You're a hippie. There is a recently tabled bill, which is a federal ban across the states for orca captivity. They should. They should. It's 100%.

I mean, I wish there was a way that they could hook up a fucking machine to a pond or a pool where an orca is and have that orca communicate and have it broken down to English. You know, we have Google Translate for Russian and Spanish. How about an orca translate if they if they figured out a way to scientifically without debate Analyze the sounds and break them down into an English language that we could could read and understand People would be mortified. Oh my god. What if it work is just start saying really racist shit? They just hate Chinese people Well, they have reason that well, maybe not the orcas but

Dolphins and whatnot have reason that well maybe not the orcas but uh dolphins and whatnot have reason to hate uh the people of taiji japan who are just repeatedly yeah uh hacking them up and then of course in the faroe islands where and i watched the video of our documentary on what's called the grind is when they uh they they do these drive fisheries what they do they drive the animals they're sonic animals so you you know pound the bottom of the ocean floor or these metal rods into other steel structures and then it herds the animals onto the're sonic animals. So you pound the bottom of the ocean floor or these metal rods into other steel structures and then it herds the animals onto the land. Well, what they do here in the

Faroe Islands is they grab these hooks and they embed it in the fucking blowhole of the pilot whales, for instance, and there's a long rope and then the people drag these things up and then they go up and then hack their throat, right? They want to call it subsistence hunting, but it's hard to call that subsistence hunting. Maybe it's hard to call that subsistence hunting.

Maybe historically it has been, but it's pretty brutal. So they eat the pilot whales? Is that what it is? They eat the pilot whales, yeah. But I'm of the opinion that it's a cultural thing and they're on the wrong side of history now. You've done it. It's done. It's documented. You've got the photos, if you will. The history's there. Let it be there.

Keep it in the history books. Well, it's one got the photos, if you will. The history's there. Let it be there. Keep it in the history books. Well, it's one of those things where if you look at the environments where they eat whales, there's people starving. You know, it's desperation. In those places, I'm not going to argue. Subsistence eating and hunting is important. I don't doubt that. But in the Faroe Islands, across from where they're doing the grind, is a vast, beautiful cityscape.

You can't tell me you can't just go grab a couple eggs and make yourself an omelet. I don't know. Yeah, I know what you're saying. The dolphin thing in the movie The Cove, which is what you talked about about Japan, they were killing them because they were eating the tuna, right? Isn't that the idea behind it? They will use anything to defend the culture of killing these dolphins but really it's fueled by the captivity industry those dolphins are invaluable and in places like and i'm not going to say sea world now because it's been a number of years but they have they have historically acquired animals from these drive fisheries but they buy these

animals and these hunters are driving around fucking porsches and shit it's not because they're chopping these dolphins up for meat it's not that's not that's not the thriving industry it's the captivity industry they're selling them when they're chopping the dolphins up for meat. That's not the thriving industry. It's the captivity industry. They're selling them. So when they're killing all those, why would they kill them if they could sell them? Well, because they're not aesthetically pleasing. They take so many of the animals.

They take the more aesthetically pleasing ones. They sell them for the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. And then they chop up the dolphins. And then they, whatever, I guess they give them to supermarkets and whatnot. They give them to supermarkets? Well, they are sold. I've never eaten dolphin. I've been in Japan. I've never eaten dolphins.

In Japan they eat dolphin? They have. I think that that's something that's going away. I think the new sort of generations of kids are sort of pulling it. I didn't watch The Cove because I didn't want to see it because I've seen enough YouTube videos of it. It's horrific. I can't watch. It's murder. I didn't know that they ate them yeah well and what we're coming to learn is that there's a high levels of mercury in this it's in the dolphin meat so they're actually it's actually

poisoning people so people are really getting away from that but more than not i think it's front to keep the captivity industry going and to keep that money there because they sell them to places in china they sell them to places in uh you They sell them to places in, uh, you know, wherever in, in, in Japan itself. And there's a lot of money that's being exchanged between the, uh,

facilities and the, and the hunters. So outside of Canada and the United States, there's a bunch of places in the world that still have those sort of marine type shows. China, especially right now, China is really starting to, is like a burgeoning environment for the captivity industry.

So they're ramping it up. They're, they're, they're plucking elephants out up. They're plucking elephants out of Thailand and stuff. I mean, wild-caught, wild-born baby elephants, they're stripping them from their mothers and they're shipping them to these places in China now, these zoos. I mean, this is another thing that has to stop now, right? China. Damn. That dog festival's rough.

Yeah, the Yulin Dog Festival. I watched that the other day on TV. There was some sort of a special. This woman goes over there. It was interesting, though, the way the Chinese people looked at it. And it's hard to argue. They're looking at it the same way we look at bacon. It offers great perspective for the people that are, for instance, saying, I will never fucking eat this dog. Well, guess what? Like, it's not any different. It's no less a conscious being than your pigs who are arguably significantly more intelligent than dogs or your cows or your whatever.

I mean, it is what it is. But it does offer a glimpse into the hypocrisy of loving one animal and eating the next. So I appreciate that this thing offers that context. of loving one animal and eating the next. So I appreciate that this thing offers that context. It's bizarre how we have these ideas, these hierarchies of animals. This one's, it's okay to kill and eat them.

This one, it's not. It seems more novelty-based, really. Yeah, it is a lot. Because, I mean, you can make a hell of a pet out of a pig, but what, it's less cute? Well, there was a guy who had a pig the other day. Where the fuck were we? Somewhere here in California. A guy had a pig on other day. Where the fuck were we? Somewhere here in California. A guy had a pig on a leash.

Awesome. Yeah, with a dog. He has a dog and a pig, and he had the pig on a leash. Like, well, okay. Don't quote me, but the intelligence of a pig is, from what I believe, I remember. They're very smart. Like a 10-year-old or something? Human?

Eh, not my kid. Because it's so much smarter. Exactly. My fucking kid. No,'s so much smarter. Exactly. My fucking kid. No, they're supposed to be intelligent. I don't know if they're like a 10-year-old, but they're supposed to be quite intelligent. It's hard to quantify, you know, like octopus. They're just starting to realize how intelligent octopus are.

Of course. I eat the fuck out of some octopus. Fish. Tuna. Yeah. Tuna are intelligent? Apparently brilliant, yeah. Really?

Yeah. Well, to some Not smart enough To stay out of the cans Cans of tuna You know what I'm saying Our fucking The ocean's fisheries

Are decimated I think we've got Basically an expiry date Of I think they said 2040 I watched a documentary Called End of the Line Recently

And they basically said That 90% of the ocean's Fisheries are fucking gone. And tuna especially is really susceptible to extinction. And it's just because we just overfish. Overfish, and it's the methods that we do it. I mean, you've got these trawlers that are setting up nets that are the size of football fields,

and they're just grinding the ocean floor, and it's just decimating the ocean. Yeah, it ruins the beds. The ecology as a whole. It fucks up coral reefs, everything. And what, what could be done about that?

I mean, they've got to leave it alone and let these things grow back. It all comes down to what you can do with your wallet. If you don't, if you're not spending the money to go to, uh, you know, uh,

Nobu and get that, uh, that, that piece of tofu or rather that tofu shit, uh, that piece of tuna, then, uh, then you assume that in some way, shape or form that that of tofu, or rather that piece of tuna, then you assume that in some way, shape, or form that that's going to curb this behavior. The problem is also that the ocean is not like...

If you're in a country and the country establishes bag limits on animals, they can keep the populations very healthy. You can't really do that with an ocean. No one's governing the oceans very aggressively. Well, if they were, this whole thing in China or Japan wouldn't be taking place with the dolphins. The only people that are doing it is the sea shepherd.

And unfortunately, Paul Watson is considered a terrorist in a lot of countries and can't actually set foot on firm land. Right. In some countries funny he's the one that's being like uh demonized for really trying to save the fucking planet well the one of the things they've done in japan where they've sort of skirted around this whale killing thing is they say that they're doing it for scientific research but then they take these animals on board and they butcher them and they sell the meat yeah but. But it's so fucked up. All they have to do is like pretend to run a few tests.

And they've documented this. Sea Shepherd has done that. They've documented these whalers. And they're doing it in whale sanctuaries. They're doing it in places where it shouldn't be done. But it's not monitored by anyone except for Sea Shepherd, right? End of the world, brother. Fuck it.

It's not, though. No, you're right. It's not. Because this is the first time ever where people are widely aware of this kind of activity and this is where I credit this show I'm telling you I'm sitting here before you as a fan first and foremost you've Illuminated so many issues and like broadened my my Spectrum of my consciousness so much I am now I can tell you I am in the seat of that of That your millions of of listeners. I am that person right can tell you, I am in the seat of that, of your millions of listeners.

I am that person right now who's saying to himself, damn, I wish I could be on that fucking show. I just happen to do something that, you know, my life circumstances just ultimately led me here. But I am that guy. And I have to extend another, you know, a big thank you for ultimately shaping a paradigm that is shifting so goddamn fast on so many different levels and so many different topics out there. And largely what you did started what, six years ago, I believe it was when you started the podcast. You're the guy who did this. Well, I couldn't have done it if it wasn't for people like you being on the show. All I'm doing is having conversations with cool people. This whole thing has made itself. It's very bizarre. I love that my ass is in some way making physical contact with some awesome asses that have sat here, man. That's an interesting way of looking at it.

I love it. I love him rubbing up against it. He's going, oh, Neil deGrasse here. Yeah, right on. He wasn't in that one. Those old seats. Oh, right. Oh, yeah.

I should mention, these are pretty comfortable. These are dope, right? Yeah, they are. Thanks to Ergo Depot for providing me with these. These are called Kapisco chairs because people constantly ask me on Twitter. They're super comfortable. They're ergonomic chairs. And they move well, too.

Well, they move well, but here's the most important thing. These are the only chairs I have ever sat in that are comfortable, that I can sit for a three-hour podcast, and my back doesn't hurt. It's got the lumbar support, eh? Yeah. Well, when I leave, it forces you to sit in a way where you're erect, which is how we're supposed to sit. And when I would sit in like a standard office chair, by the end of the day, my back's all fucked up from jujitsu. So like the middle of my back would be hurting like hell. I'd be like, ah, like I'd leave podcasts and I'd be all stiff. I leave these like, I, like I just like,

I feel right now, like I just sat down like it doesn't bother me at all yeah full disclosure i was moving in my seat because i'm just fidgety guy not because i wasn't comfortable these ergonomic chairs man they are the future they are the they are the present they're they're they're they're so much better than a regular office chair regular office chairs cause you to sit in sort of a weird way unless you consciously like i need to get these fucking things to the ufc because when i sit and watch the ufc for six hours i sit like a hot chick on instagram like when they stick their ass out that's how i sit i purposely force myself to sit in this unnatural way whereas if i had chairs like this i would just uh yeah so ergo depot holler at me we'll send these bitches over to the ufc and

you know that's actually like the ufc has um you know they use the chairs that are there at the mandalay bay or mgm or whatever but my point is these are the shit yeah they're great um anything else before we wrap this thing up everything else i could talk for hours man wrap it up and let me anything else important that we left off the table oh Oh, shit. I know you got a whole notebook there, dude. You're like a comedian. You have like notes. It's my process. Oh, ag gag laws.

You're familiar with ag gag laws? Oh, is that? This is the agriculture laws that- Yes. Yeah. Factory farming. That's a perfect example of sort of what we're going through. This is a microcosm of what we're dealing with.

You know, Marine Land sort of gets creative in sort of creating their own little ag gag sort of procedures with existing laws. creating their own little law ag gag sort of procedures with existing laws but yeah these ag gag laws are just a just an absolute just a fucking horrible thing i mean to to be able to uh prosecute and punish people that are trying to expose the truth of farming and agriculture practices this is absurd this is fucking crazy right Well, what they're doing is if people have a video, like a cell phone video or something like that, and you film pigs in captivity or chickens or anything in agriculture where they have factory farming, you can get sued. Yeah, exactly. And you can go to jail. Yeah.

Like, you can go to jail for exposing something that makes people sick. Like, you can go to jail for exposing something that makes people sick. And a reality of a business. If you're buying something, I feel like if I'm buying a chicken and then I find out, oh, I can no longer be detached from this process because now I know exactly how this chicken lived and I feel horrible about it. I've been educated. And so that company needs to change its practices because I don't want to buy chickens from them anymore. And if some people do, that's fine with them. But to stop people from filming that and showing you, well, you're trying to keep people in the dark. You're misleading people.

You're hiding facts. You're hiding truth. That's not cool. This is exactly what we're dealing with in reality, right? It's the same fucking thing. Yeah, it is. It is. It is exactly the same thing.

Hiding truth, hiding reality, and trying to keep people from being aware of what's essentially torture. You know, I buy as little meat as possible and no eggs. I don't buy any eggs from anywhere, unless I'm in a restaurant or something like that. You have your own chickens.

I have my own chickens, and I have a good feeling. My chickens like me. They come to me. I come out to them and I bring food and I'm like, what's up kids? Hey girls. And I put the plate down. They're not scared of me.

They run over and they lay eggs and I take the eggs. Sometimes they peck at me when I try to steal their eggs, but I reach under them to take them. Barely. They don't know me that good you could take them but my point is it's it's like i enjoy that relationship and i know that not everybody can have that sort of relationship but that is what you want if you want eggs like pita has these really ridiculous campaigns against chickens and against eggs where they call it a chicken period and they have a frying pan on their website with a pair of panties that has like a fucking bloody spot on the panties and you're frying the period it's so bizarre have you ever seen it jamie pull it up if periods

tasted as good as eggs i don't think there'd be an issue, but the periods don't taste up Jesus come on. How dare you taste like a penny? What's wrong? How dare you keep going um The problem is captivity. It's not eggs Joel Salatin who is a really fascinating guy I had him on my podcast and he's an advocate of what you would call natural farming when he picked when he Has pigs what he does is he puts this enormous electrical fence up and the pigs they don't want to go near the fence it sort of doesn't hurt him but it zaps them so they don't pass it and then they move the fence so they continue to graze a new property so they're eating acorns

and roots and all natural things that pigs eat and that's what he does with these pigs with chickens the same thing He has these enormous chicken houses, and they roll them to new environments. And so on his farm, this chicken house, the hen house, has rollers on it. And they'll move it to a new area. And the chickens, my chickens, I open the gates, and my chickens run around my yard. And then they go back in the hen house at night. It's what they do. It's also stimulating for them because they get a new environment all the time yes and they're free they're literally

free and when you get eggs from those kind of chickens they're a dark orange like a really dark like deep orange and that's it's because it's much healthier that when you see something that says like vegetarian fed chickens guess what chickens aren't vegetarians they're fucking dinosaurs i fed my chickens a mouse once and here's another example of like the hierarchy fed chickens. Guess what? Chickens aren't vegetarians. They're fucking dinosaurs. I fed my chickens a mouse once. And here's another example of like the hierarchy of animals we love and animals we don't love. It's really interesting how this happened in my house. Um, my kids found a Hawk, the Hawk, uh, slammed, uh, into, uh, I think a window or something. I'm not sure we weren't there, but we found this wounded hawk so my kids

Decided that we're gonna do is we're gonna take this hawk and get it to a wildlife rescue organization So they had to feed it because it was over the weekend and the rescue organization wasn't open So they went to the pet store, and they got they're called pinkies, which are these little tiny mice Yeah, so the people listening their mice that haven't their baby mice and they use them to feed snakes and stuff like that and so they fed the hawk these pinkies and there was one pinky left and they got the hawk to the Wildlife Rescue Organization the hawk was taken care of and everything and hopefully it was released into the wild but we had one pinky left over my daughter wanted to raise it. And I said, sweetie,

this is going to die. It's not, we, it has to eat milk. It's only been alive for a few days. It's just not going to last. I'm amazed it's still alive. And she was crying. And I said, but we just fed them to the hawks. Do you understand this? I go, there's one of two things we should do. I go, we should either bring it back to the pet store. No, I go, listen, if we don't bring it back to the pet store, it's going to die. We bring it back to the pet store no I go listen if we don't bring it back to the pet store it's going to die we bring it back to the pet store the pets pet store I don't know if the mouse will accept it now that we've got our scent on it

I don't know how that works but they're going to feed it to a snake they're just going to resell it someone's going to someone's going to buy it or it might die because it hasn't eaten in 24 hours I don't know and our other option is we give it to the chickens. And there's all this crying and this and that. At this point, had you known that the chicken was likely to eat this thing?

I knew it. I've seen them eat a mouse before. Oh, really? They're fucking ruthless, dude. They're ruthless. Like, I put that mouse down. It was not down on the ground for a fucking half a second when one chicken slammed it, got it in his beak, and the other chickens were chasing this chicken around the hen house.

Like, this chicken couldn't pause to try to eat this because all the other chickens knew what it had, and they were running around. It couldn't stop. It was running, and it's trying to eat it, and the other chickens are running with it, and it was just, I should have filmed it. I had no idea. Dude, they're monsters. They are fucking monsters. I heard monsters they are fucking monsters with each other and they like to peck the shit out of each other they peck everything here's what's fucked up man they peck my daughter

a couple times and one time i almost killed one of them because it pecked her face and um my wife is like it doesn't know i go listen listen it's trying to eat her it just can't do you need to get this in your head it's not that it doesn't know it knows she's alive and it's trying to eat her. It just can't. You need to get this in your head. It's not that it doesn't know. It knows she's alive, and it's trying to fucking eat her. And if we held her down, those chickens would eat her. She's like, you get crazy with this. I go, I'm telling you right now, they are fucking dinosaurs. They are cold-blooded.

They have the fucking brain of a pencil eraser, okay? Little tiny on the tip of your pencil. That's how big their fucking brain is. Walk, fuck, fight. Exactly. They'll eat everything. They follow my wife around like she'll lift up rocks, and they dive under the rocks to try to get worms and anything that's there.

They're little predators, man. They're straight up predators. So when you see like vegetarian fed, those aren't good eggs. You're not doing any service to that animal. They're omnivores. They're omnivores. And they would eat meat all day long above grass if you gave it to them. They like that more.

Like my lawn is filled with grass. And they peck at the grass and they eat all kinds of other stuff too. And they eat the chicken food that we buy. We try to buy the most nutritious chicken food available. There's some brands that are more diverse in the food and the nutrients that are in them. But the bottom line is they abandon all that shit when they see something live. They try to eat living things. That's what they want to do.

So that's the thing we've got to be scared of most is chickens that are going to get big. Which is lucky they're little. Yeah. Well, you ever heard of terror birds? I like to tell people that all the time. It's just like if you don't think that that cat wouldn't fucking eat you if it was just a significantly larger, believe me, you'd have a different respect for A, the animal, and the idea that eating

meat is a drug. Fuck yeah, dude. Fuck yeah. Like a largemouth bass. If you're swimming in a pool big enough for a largemouth bass to eat you, you're done. Like a grouper. Have you ever seen those giant groupers in Florida? It's crazy.

They would eat a baby. 100%. Guaranteed. If a baby was floating around, a grouper would come up. There was a nutty video of a grouper eating a shark. I saw it. Isn't that crazy? It's fucking crazy.

The shark was like three feet long. Yeah, swallowed it. Just put it right put her in his mother's mammoth fucking animal It's like a giant largemouth bass from a hobbit movie. It's crazy. They don't even seem real Yeah, I don't know how big they get but I think it's hundreds and hundreds of pounds what that massive look at this here It is these people they caught a shark and they put the camera in the water to film this this grouper That's coming up to the shark. So they have a small shark on the hook, and as they're reeling it in, and they're bringing it in. This video could use some editing.

And as they're reeling it in, they've got this shark. It's not a small shark. It's about three feet long, maybe even more. It might even be four feet. And this grouper comes along and smashes it as they're trying to get it out of the water look at this boom Jesus Christ, I mean that groupers gotta be two three hundred pounds I don't know how big they get yeah, but I would assume they get to be like three or four hundred pounds How big are groupers Jimmy? I don't know let's let's end this with groupers

Those they taste good though you ever have a grouper sandwich? No, I haven't. I don't know if you would want to eat an old one like that. Probably not. Yeah, they get a little, I don't know. I don't know if that's the case with fish. Oh, it's definitely the case with fish. Is it?

When I go fishing, you don't want to keep your 11-pound walleye. You want to eat the, like, between three and, like, really three-pound ones. I went walleye fishing for the first time last year. Good eating, huh? Delicious. Oh, yeah, perch and walleye. Yeah the first time last year. Good eating, huh? Delicious. Oh, yeah. Perch and walleye. Yeah, in Alberta, man.

How big they get? 2.5 meters. Eight feet. Oh, my God. They can weigh as much as 790 pounds. Holy fucking shit. Wow. That is insane. I had no idea.

Eight feet. That could no idea. Eight feet. That could eat you. 700 fucking pounds. That is so crazy. Wow, I did not know they got that big. Oh my God, eight feet. Can you imagine Shaquille O'Neal, a foot bigger than him, is a grouper? That's insane.

Look at the size of that thing. There's one with a dude. Oh my God. This thing is bigger than the guy. Look at the little fish that's staying on the other side a dude. Oh, my God. This thing is bigger than the guy. Look at the little fish just staying on the other side of the guy going like, fuck, no, I'm not coming around.

I was staying an eye behind you. It's hoping that the grouper takes chunks out of that guy and leaves a little for him. God, the ocean is awesome. Yeah, it is. The ocean is so amazing. Deep ocean,

the more you learn about it. I mean, do you see in Japan that massive squid? Squid, yeah. That's crazy. They're swimming with it. I don't want to swim anywhere near that massive squid? Yeah. That's crazy. They're swimming with it. I don't want to swim anywhere near that fucking thing.

Now that's an evil predator right there. You do not want to get stuck in those tentacles. Oh yeah, they are really evil and they're so big. What's really nuts

is that giant squid were just a myth a couple of decades ago. They had no idea if they were real. Like they had never caught one of these things on camera. Now they have one.

It looked like it was in a bay somewhere. Looked really close to boats it's crazy to look it was allowing people to swim in it like they never had caught one before like they didn't know if they were real then they started catching them i wouldn't swim with that thing i wonder how they're catching them so because they're catching them much more frequently now like look at it look at the video of it my god what an amazing amazing creature the entire body flexible nothing but a beak like as far like it's the only thing that's hard do you know they found evidence really recently of uh gigantic some some sort of octopus type species that would be like a kraken they're thinking by the size of the tentacles this

thing would be 100 feet long and they found thinking by the size of the tentacles this thing would be a hundred feet long and They found these enormous tentacles that were like, you know dinner plates. Yeah, and they're they're saying okay Well, this is what the myths of the Kraken have always been the Kraken was always this gigantic Tentacled monster that would eat anything look at that fucking thing Well, it's hard to perspective when you see it with a person, you get a real good idea of how enormous it is. But I think that thing is like 18 feet long or something crazy. But these krakens, there's nothing left of them when they die. So what they found is the fossilized remains of the tentacles had died.

When it had died, the tentacles had left an imprint on the ground on the bottom of the ocean. And so that's they got the fossilized remains of these tentacles. They're like, holy shit. And they realized, well, okay, well, this is where these myths come from. This was a real, a real creature. It's amazing how little we know in terms of what the deep ocean has available to it in terms of, uh, of, uh, animal life. It's crazy.

We're discovering stuff every day. Yeah. They say we know more about the moon than we know about the ocean. Well, it's, what is it, 70% of the earth or something like that? I don't know. Some giant percentage of the earth is water. And the ocean floor, I think they've only examined like 5% of it, which is amazing. So 95% of this incredible, essentially wild world.

I mean, it is a wild world. And it ultimately comes from the ocean. I mean, the ocean is what gives us life. That's where we have to respect it. Supposedly it all came from, right? We all started off somehow or another as some little fucking fish thing. I got to watch more Cosmos. That's another thing I can't get enough of.

I know, right? Yeah. I'm so glad they brought that back, especially with Neil deGrasse Tyson. He great podcast too it's called star talk it's awesome it's really good definitely check that out and it's all about a bunch of different subjects too like he had a really cool one with david burn from the talking heads about creativity and he's just a really interesting curious guy neil degrasse tyson yeah he's got a great demeanor and And I like the way they do the Cosmos with the sort of the imagination and the animation. Yeah. It's great.

It's awesome. It's very great. It's very engaging. So we're good? Anything else? Yeah, solid. Safesmooshy.com. Follow me.

You never know when that Periscope broadcast is going to happen. You have Periscope broadcast? What do you do? You say you never know. You never know when that Periscope broadcast is going to happen. You have Periscope broadcast? What do you do? You say you never know. You never know when that Periscope broadcast is going to happen. So we should follow you on Twitter, Walrus Whisperer on Twitter. Hit me up on Facebook and then Periscope. That's how I keep my voice alive, man.

Well, we're going to help you, man. We're going to help you keep your voice alive, for sure. Can't thank you enough. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. All right, fuckers. We'll be back tomorrow with a great Tom Segura. Until then, much love. We'll be back tomorrow with the great Tom Segura.

Until then, much love. Bye-bye. Mwah.