The Joe Rogan Experience - #756 - Kyle Kingsbury

Episode Date: February 4, 2016

Kyle Kingsbury is a retired professional mixed martial artist. He competed in King of the Cage & the Ultimate Fighting Championship, and was also on The Ultimate Fighter: Team Nogueira vs Team Mir.

Do do do do do To all right Kyle Kingsbury, how are you brother? I'm doing great brother. I have a present for you This is a legit fanny pack look at that cuz you're a fanny pack enthusiast He's one of the few manly men that I could count upon to almost always be wearing a fanny pack. Oh, wow. Look at that, baby. That's a higherprimate.com special. Oh, this is phenomenal. You know, I wanted to get one of these back in the day, and you were out of stock for quite some time. Yeah, that's right, because I fucking sell out of these things, believe it or not.

I believe it. These are made by Roots, and they have, like, the pocket is got a higherprimate.com thing stamped into it. But it's fucking high level, baby. I found out about that one from Dice Clay. Dice Clay came in. He's another fanny pack enthusiast. I love Dice. And he had sweatpants on.

And he was wearing this beautiful leather fanny pack. And I was like, where did you get that? Oh, it's a Roots one. It's the best. And he took it off and showed it to me. We're like, you know how girls will look at each other's purses? That's what we were doing. Oh, yeah. You inspected the pockets. You wanted to see this is where

my wallet and my cell phone can go. This is where my chapstick will go. So I bought one. It's legit as fuck. And then after I bought it, I was so in love with it. I was like, could they make these for me and put my stamp on it? And they said yes.

So the zip-up pocket, if you look at it, it has the higher primate stamp with the champ with the light bulb above his head. Pretty sweet, huh? Yeah. This is amazing. Yeah, look at the one you're wearing, bro. It's like a Screams hiker.

Screams hitchhiker. It is. I got this pack safe. I got this before going to Central and South America because you can lock the zippers. Oh. So people can't get into it can't pick pocket they have cables on the on the band they're like steel cables so they can't cut them really do like a lot of slash-and-grab stuff over there I guess Jesus Christ let me see this thing you've got my mind need to change brands survival pack it's packed

this my travel weight so this is the travel weight. First of all, bro, you can do curls with this. This is the travel weight. And this has cords in it. Oh, it does. You can feel two of them. Steel cords. You can't cut it. This is incredible. Oh, my goodness.

And when you click that in there, there's three buttons to open it up. Not your normal two-button action. Oh, yeah. One, two, and three. This is legit. They got the RIFD. You got the RF or RIFD. RIFD card, like radio frequencies. So if you're passing by and some little hacker's on his laptop,

you can't steal all your Apple Pay information from your iPhone and shit like that. Someone can do that? Fuck yeah. Just walking by you? Haven't you seen Rogue Nation? I try not to. I try to stay as far out of the loop with all these fucking hacker whippersnappers. What is this bad boy?

So that's where you click all those three together. Uh-huh. And you put a lock on it. Oh. I see. Dude, this is impressive stuff. If they made it out of Kevlar, it'd be even better. Cover your dick.

You know, they make clothes now out of Kevlar. They look like regular clothes, but you could take a bullet with them. Like how? It's gonna... Kevlar. The bullet would penetrate you slightly, and then come out. It's not gonna feel awesome. Yeah, but it's gonna keep the bullet from going through into your body. It'll hurt.

What do you think that would feel like? Depends on the round. But it wouldn't feel good. I've talked to people that have been shot with bulletproof vests. They say it's like getting punched. So are these plates like in pants and shit like that, or is this like some type of material that's movable? It's both. They have some of them.

They even have some that prevent you from knife attacks. They have like a thick mesh Kevlar. That seems more real, kind of like the chain mail the bad guy wears in Commando. Yeah, there was a Vice documentary or Vice piece on this guy who is known for making bulletproof clothes. He's a tailor. I want to say Columbia. I think he's in Bogota. But he's known for making really nice clothes that just happen to be bulletproof.

Like the whole deal. Underwear, everything. That's pretty badass. It's like the Kingsman guy. Is this it? Yeah, here you go. Israeli reporter testing a knife-proof vest ends up getting stabbed. Well, that's not

good. He actually got stabbed all the way through or just a little bit? Oh, Jesus Christ. This is a commando knife, and he's just going to fucking stab him with this thing? Is this guy doing sign language in the lower left? Yeah, he actually is. Oh, that's hilarious. We wouldn't pick up the stab here penetrating through.

Yeah. I missed, he said. We wouldn't pick up the stab here penetrating through. Oh. I missed, he said. Yeah. Fucking dude's going to be bleeding. That dude downplayed it pretty well for getting stabbed. Yeah, he took it quite easily. Jesus Christ.

I guess it works. I guess it works a little bit. I mean, it's definitely better than not having that on. He would be dead. Works I guess it works a little bit. I mean, it's definitely better than not having that on. He would be dead. Works sometimes. It works a little bit. It's like, stab me like this. That'll live in color.

You're doing it wrong. Stab me like this. Well, you've seen those martial arts demonstrations where those guys do that. They come at you with a knife. And then the other guy has to grab your wrist. That's the stabbing technique. Always. Yeah.

They say that the best way to knife fight is actually to put your arm forward, you wrap your clothes around your arm, and put a knife in your back hand. Meanwhile, why the fuck do I know what the best way to knife fight is? What are the odds you're ever going to get in a knife fight, like you and another guy on the beach,

like circling each other with a knife and your jacket wrapped around your forearm? And beat it starts playing. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, that's right. They were switchblades, right? Mm-hmm. They had a little knife fight.

They were tied together. People used to do knife fights in the movies. Remember those? That was like a big thing in movies. Even back in the old musicals. What was that? West Side Story, they had the knife fights. Did Saturday Night Fever have a knife fight?

Mm-hmm. It did, right? They had a knife fight, too. What Saturday Night Fever have a knife fight? It did, right? They had a knife fight too. What the fuck is wrong with people back then? All the cocaine. Is that what it was? I don't know. When did the cocaine kick in? It was in the 80s, right? I think it was around in the 70s and it just got giant in the 80s.

Have you watched Narcos? No, but I hear it's awesome. Dude. Actually, Eddie Bravo always talks about how it's just... Yeah. He's hooked. He got me. He got me hooked and now I'm hooked. I'm trying's awesome. Dude. Actually, Eddie Bravo always talks about how it's just... Yeah. He's hooked. He got me. He got me hooked, and now I'm hooked. I'm trying to spread the world.

Spread it to the world. We're looking for new shows. It's a fucking awesome show, man. It's incredible. It's really, really nuts. So is it documentary style, or...? No, it's... There's some real footage of the actual Medellin cartel,

and, you know, there's some real footage of like the different busts and some murder footage, some bodies that they really real, real, like some of the horrible atrocities they committed. They show you real footage of that. But for the most part, it just is the story of Pablo Escobar and his rise to power. That's right. It's fucking badass, dude. It's so dope. They just did such a good job. Netflix just right. It's fucking badass, dude. It's so dope. They just did such a good job.

Netflix just does such a good job. It's on Netflix. Yeah. Okay. They have so much fucking money, man. They can put together these things and make them like 10 movies. It's like 10 one-hour movies. That's the best.

I can't really. We have trouble watching regular TV now. I think HBO kind of spoiled us. You watch a show. I mean, even though the beauty of Netflix is that you get it all at once. Yeah. So the whole season. But even still, like, if we're watching Dexter back in the day or, and there was really only

a few good seasons there, but, you know, whatever show that's on that, that you can watch straight through with no commercials and no fast forwarding. Yeah. Night and day better than having to use the DVR or sit through the commercials. That's just. That's caveman shit. It's terrible. It's old days.

It's terrible. Those are the old days. We're done with commercials. They need to come up with a new way to sell you shit. You know, like interrupting TV shows just makes me not want to buy their stuff. There was some new comedy on TBS. I don't know why we were watching it, but they kept showing Ford ads during the show,

and they would make like a little chime, like, bong. And then they would have this giant Ford.com on the bottom. They were trying to do it so blatant that it was humorous. But at the same time, it was fucking irking me. What was this show? This is ridiculous. It was some new comedy on TBS, some cheese dick cop show. So while the show was on, the commercials playing over the dialogue and all this stuff,

like distracting you? It would just go boom, and then you'd see this thing superimposed over the bottom of the screen before it got going. And it was repeated, though. I mean, after the commercials, you'd see this just pop up, and they're like, if this is the future of TV, then we're not watching this. They're not watching this. We're killing TV like that.

That's what they're doing to try to counter DVRs. Just stick it even more in your face. It's fucking gross, man. Just over the top with it. It's just so stupid. It's such a dumb way to advertise. They just have to figure out a better way to let people know about their shit. Just some cool way.

That's not the way to do it. But that's neither here nor there. No. I love saying that. way to do it but that's neither here nor there no i love saying that i never get to it's neither here nor there so dude i'm on that diet i'm on the ketogenic diet now or trying to uh get into it and you know you talking about it with me sort of inspired me a little bit because one of the big things a lot of people are saying you can't be in you can't do explosive activities bullshit karl kingsbury has spoken you fucking nerds all you nutrition nerds i'll tell you what man if you get into any sort of a diet online or tell people you're gonna try something the fucking experts come crawling out of the woodwork so many people even when i that's why i deleted my facebook account i just couldn't stand like over the years in the ufc i just would

say oh sure yeah i'd allow you to be friends, allow you to be friends, that kind of thing. And then over time, you've got 5,000 people that think they're your pals. Like, at least on Twitter, I follow who I want to follow. That's that. I'm not subscribed to any of their shit. You know what I'm saying? I'm sure with 1.7 million people following you online on Twitter alone, you post you're going to do this, and people come out to woodwork about it. I would write about like, oh, I just read this book.

It's phenomenal. Check it out. And then everybody's got to come up with this. Well, here's an article I found online. I'll send you the link, and this guy's a total whack job. He's an idiot. It's like this one paragraph somebody wrote is going to totally dispel and throw out the window what this guy spent years researching

and putting together in his book. Yeah, it's always like vegannews.com. You're like, oh, Jesus, it's not a real source. How dare you? But this diet, so I've been on it now only for four days. This is like today I think is the fourth, third or fourth day. Let's call it the third day. Third day, 100%.

And I had headaches on like this, like somewhere around the second day, I started getting a little bit of headache. I read that on your Instagram, but I got a fix for it. What's the fix? So a lot of people, when they transition low carb, they have, there's a window before you start producing ketones on your own, right? You can jumpstart that window with fasting, which is a total pain in the ass, especially if you're carbohydrate dependent, or you can cheat it by using MCT oil. So if you up your MCTs the first three days, kind of borderline where you might shit yourself, then you totally negate any of that really feeling like groggy, like I don't have energy,

or fuck, man, I can't move. You can eliminate that completely with MCTs. Why does MCT oil make you shit yourself because it does it does and I'm not gonna lie I've shit myself at least five times in the past two years as an adult Not being drunk no no I don't drink anymore, but yeah, what was it the MCTs? I got a little cocky you know like over time. I know I measure everything out religiously now I mean, but and this everything's fine-tuning. It's all personal process, right? I had to start with a teaspoon now. I'm up to four tablespoons per pot of coffee. I make a whole pot

blend it up with Two to one ratio of Kerrygold butter to the MCT oil Then I have my little stevia drops, that kind of thing. If I'm on the road, I got other stuff. But I don't, I used to, if I was on the road and I'm having coffee, I would just take a gulp of MCT next to it. What do you got, whipping cream? You bring your own whipping cream here?

What is that? Heavy cream, yeah. You got to get on it, bro. What? Unless you don't have a, if you don't have a lactose intolerant. That should be a meme right there. Heavy cream, got to get on it, bro. You got to get on it, bro.

You got to. And I got my Stevia drops here just like Jim Carrey does. What's the, just like Jim Carrey? Jim Carrey has Stevia drops? You got to check out the coffee, what is the coffee in cars with comedians? Oh, he brings Stevia drops with him? Yeah, he does it when he's on with Seinfeld. It's an awesome, awesome episode.

So tell me, why do you have heavy whipping cream? Well, this is, first of all, as Mark says on detail earlier, this is grass-fed, free-range, all good stuff. I don't have a lactose intolerant or a dairy intolerance. So let's iron that out right now. I don't recommend this to anybody who does. But this is an easy way to get more fat. And that's really what you're trying to do. This is an easy way to get more fat, and that's really what you're trying to do.

Oh. We, as natural people from a primal standpoint, went in periods of ketosis no matter where we were on planet Earth. So I know you were talking about the other day, like, what is this ancestral diet stuff, that kind of stuff. Right. Well, that's based on where you lived. So if you had ancestors from the poles, then you likely had big game and fruits and vegetables and things that grew in colder climates, you know, like a kale and shit like that. If you're by the equator, smaller stuff, smaller live animals like chicken, fish, those kinds of things, and then much more carbohydrate, but both, no matter where you were from, you had periods where you didn't eat. So

that's when you'd produce your own ketones. To remain in a ketogenic state, you really do have to have a much higher level of fat than people think, like way more to where you, it's counterintuitive, especially with cholesterol and things like that. But the research is out. I mean, these guys are putting together things. Dr. David Perlmutter wrote Green Brain in 2013. He had research from 2013 and 2012 and 2011, all in the book. In 2015, he followed up with Brain Maker. Brand new studies are being put in the book. In 2015, he followed up with BrainMaker. Brand new studies are being put in that book. So this is like the very latest. And what they're showing across the board is for all the mental disorders like Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's, they all have to do with really high blood sugar levels over time. So one person might manifest as

type 2 diabetes. Another person might get Alzheimer's. It's just your genetic coding. That's the genetic difference. Eating like shit is going to get you to have that disease manifest itself. It's just sugar itself seems to be just really, really bad for you. It's a bad deal, yeah. But as you'll find, it's really easy to eat too much protein on the diet,

and that can knock you out of ketosis. Really? Eating too much protein knocks you out of ketosis? There's a process the body does called gluconeogenesis, and this is kind of where Atkins failed. A lot of people, even my dad would say, oh, I did Atkins, I lost weight, and I felt like shit. I had this pain across my chest, and they call it Atkins fever, right? You feel like flu symptoms, right? Right. That comes from what's your energy source? So if people do a low carb diet and they think,

well, I don't want to have too much fat because that's not healthy and they don't understand good fats and bad fats. So they say, okay, well, I'll just stop my protein to fill up and I'll have a little bit of fat and low carb. Well, now your body has to take protein and turn it back into glucose. And that's what gluconeogenesis does. And it's a very, your body has to take protein and turn it back into glucose. And that's what gluconeogenesis does. And it's a very, your body will do it, but it's not an easy thing to do. Fat and carbohydrates are much, much easier as energy sources. So if you can keep protein moderate, that's why now modified Atkins or ketogenic diets, they'll tell you it's high fat, moderate protein, low carb. So when you say like moderate, like how many grams of protein do you get in a day?

That's all individual for anybody, you know, if you're working out, how you work out. But for you, what are you about, 220, something like that? I weigh 225 right now. I probably have, I don't know, definitely under 140 a day grams of protein. Really? That's interesting. under 140 a day grams of protein really that's interesting because the bodybuilder method was one gram per pound at least and they were doing six seven meals a day look so for putting on size i'm not going to tell dorian yates how to put on size like he they they eat that way specifically

for gains and that that is scientifically proven to help with gains you're eating like a child basically you have a newborn They eat every two hours Then they're they're eating everything carbohydrates protein and fat right so when you want to gain size, that's the way to do it But for this you don't necessarily need that and you can employ different methods like intermittent fasting where they talk about Skip breakfast and just eat between 12 and 7 You're not that protein window of, oh, my, my nitrogen balance is lowering. I'm going to lose muscle mass. It's total crap.

They would tell you, oh, you skip a meal. You're going to, you're going to get weak, bro. Total crap. All the hormones that give us, um, recovery, anything like that, IGF-1 growth hormone, they all go through the roof when we don't eat so the longer we fast the higher our ketone production is the higher our anti-catabolic hormones are so they're muscle preserving now you could do a fast incorrectly and you know you go run a wrong long race or or if you did high intensity stuff fasted then yeah you'd be running into problems there well that's because that's all tallis is right your body starts to break down muscle tissue is that what it's called a autolysis?

Because you're working glycolytic. This is all right in there in the Primal Endurance book by Marc Sisson. I picked that up right after he was on the show on the old Kindle. I really enjoyed talking to that guy. He's awesome. Yeah, that was a really cool conversation and very eye-opening. You know, one thing that really opened my eyes or really had me thinking was they've shown on studies recently on children that have epilepsy that putting them in a ketogenic state seems to stop epileptic seizures or significantly reduce them. That's how the diet was developed in the 1920s.

I think it was Johns Hopkins University or hospital, not university, Johns Hopkins, whatever, put together. They had a team of guys there that figured it out. And there's actually a guy who was on the Tim Ferriss podcast, Dr. Dominic D'Agostino, who is awesome. Yeah. You got to check him out. I heard that one. He's out of South Florida.

He's the guy who fasted for seven days and then lifted 500 pounds for 15 reps, did 585 for a single, then gave a lecture to 300 plus people on fasting and ketogenic diets. That guy's a trip. He's really fascinating. Super fucking intelligent. You know, like you're listening to him talk about it and how he travels with his own exogenous ketones that he throws into his food. Have you tried those yet?

No. How nasty. The look on your face. Yeah, the rocket fuel stuff. When they first came out with it, the liquid, it is jet fuel. I mean, it'll make you quiver. I mean, I think that stuff tastes worse than ayahuasca. But now the new stuff, they make it with stevia.

It's all natural. Flavored like orange. Keto canna. It's awesome stuff. You'll love it. What's the thought process behind eating exogenous ketones? How does that work? Well, here's what I've noticed. If I'm in a ketogenic state and keto adapted and I'm producing my own ketones, I feel a huge bump from a product like that, exogenous in addition.

like that, exogenous in addition, right? If I'm in a carbohydrate necessary energy system and I haven't been in ketosis for a while, and then I have like, oh, okay, well, I'm going to get low sleep tonight, so I want ketones. I might feel like a slight difference, but it's not going to be nearly as dramatic as if I'm already in ketosis. Really? Yeah. Which is odd to me. I don't know the mechanism of how it works or if my body's just more in tune to use them when there's no carbohydrates there. But it's night and day. I think the product is expensive, like $75, $85 for 15 servings probably. Really? So I wouldn't use it every day, but I'd use it for like a big race.

Tasha and I are doing a 50K in Zion coming up in April. I'll be using them for that for sure. And so you would do it the morning of the race? During the race. Like 15 minutes beforehand and then every couple hours in for sure. And now how long have you been doing a ketogenic diet? Oh, man, at least a year and a half I've been in and out. Obviously I'm not going to – there is no point where I'll never eat carbs again.

There's just too many good carbs. Yeah, they're phenomenal. But there's periods of times where I'll do like a 12-week block, straight ketosis, or 16 weeks in a row, straight ketosis. And what do you find when you do that? Like what's the difference? The biggest thing that I feel is a cognitive boost. Really? It's night and day.

feel is a cognitive boost. It's night and day. The sharpness I have mentally is, uh, I mean, that's, that's, that's really what keeps me coming back to it is the mental clarity and focus. Um, and then you lose a little bit of water weight because glycogen holds water in the muscles. So you don't lose any strength, but you lose some of that water weight, and I just feel more flexible. So when I do yoga and things like that, I can get into postures I could never get into when I eat carbs. I can't get into Lotus when I'm eating carbs. Even if it's only five pounds difference in my overall body weight, I can get into Lotus now. But you can when you're in ketosis. Oh, yeah.

What the fuck? Yeah. So where is it binding? In your knees, in your hips? What's holding you back? Well, you're holding water. For every gram of glycogen you hold four grams of water in the muscle cell so it makes sense if you're loading on carbohydrates and things even if you're not carb loading but if you're carb dependent your muscles are going to hold more water than if they weren't is there any benefit benefit to that as far as utilization of energy?

Well, ketones, I mean, this is all coming out of Steve Finney and Jeff Bullock. They wrote The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living and The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance. And Mark Sisson references them. They really broke down studies on athletes in a ketogenic diet and things like that and saw exactly what kind of enhancements were being done. And they kind of broke through the mold of what was done before when they ran tests. You know, Gatorade was running tests. And it was coming up like, hey, if you do this,

you simply aren't going to be able to outperform somebody who has carbohydrates. Right. They weren't looking at somebody that was keto adapted. So it does take six to eight weeks to make your body prefer fat. Okay. So what they were doing was just trying it on people. They put them in a state of ketosis for a couple of weeks and then try it. Yeah, two weeks.

Exactly. Two weeks. Six to eight weeks. Six to eight weeks. And other people will tell you the longer the better. So if you were like these guys that are winning the Western States 100, it's a 100-mile race. They're in it for years. You do pretty strict for a year and a half, and then you see some significant

jumps in fat oxidation rates. So how much can I break down in an hour while I'm under stress? That changes dramatically the longer you stay in it. Now, when you do that, is it beneficial to put on some body fat, like for a long race like that? Because if you're in a ketogenic state your body can burn off that fat you would have They've cry Kent I can't write off numbers off the top my head But I mean when they talk about how much how much calories you can hold from glycogen

Pre-stored in the liver and all the carb loading you can do versus how much fat you have in your body You could run for days. That's why we confessed It's literally why that's another thing like to dispel a bodybuilder myth on muscle. If we lost muscle dramatically from fasting, then how would we chase down the herd three, four, five days into not having food? Like we for sure evolved to be able to do this. So we could go long periods of time and still have our explosiveness when we needed it. And they weren't jumping on treadmills and doing stupid shit like we have to do now.

But at the same time, it was important for human beings to be able to have energy still in a fasted state for that long. And what you're talking about for people who are unaware, it's called persistence hunting. And it's one of the first methods of hunting that ancient people used to do and still do in parts of Africa where they will run and chase down. Like an animal like an antelope, they run very fast for short periods of time, but they overheat. They get hot and they get tired, and they can't run like we can. We can run at a slower pace for way longer. We could run all day because we sweat, and they don't sweat.

So they overheat. And so what ancient hunters would do is just chase them literally until we sweat and they don't sweat so they overheat and so what ancient hunters would do is just chase them literally until they dropped and they'd stab them there's some pretty fucking trippy videos of guys doing that today in africa that sounds badass it's pretty crazy they just chase these animals down until eventually they just give up and then they stab them i can't imagine the runner's high of chasing prey that long and and like you're that's your food it's not like oh hey let's spend five grand and go on a safari like that's your food you know like that must be a

thrill alive yeah yeah i'm gonna bring this back for my family this is not something you did while you're fighting no um you know in fighting at the way i like to word this is i i used to play video games and love to do shit. And I'm not knocking video games. I'm in a video game coming up here. It's going to be awesome. You're in a video game? Yes.

What is it? Mafia 3 by 2K Games. Awesome. Do you play like a hitman or some shit? I'm the dude. You're the dude? Yeah, I'm the dude. It's a one-player game that's like Grand Theft Auto.

Oh. But you don't beat up hookers after banging them. You do like more. It's a one-player game that's like Grand Theft Auto. But you don't beat up hookers after banging them. You do like more. It's a revenge game. I'm trying to come after these guys for killing my family. Oh. And I get to do it. I mean, the whole thing is motion capture.

So if a guy farts, it's me in a suit doing it. Really? Anything he does, it's me doing it. Wow. So how long did you have to do that for? We're still working on it. It's coming out this summer. I've been doing that since I retired last year and a half. Fuck, it's crazy how intensive video games are. You really think about people working?

You think about the money behind it now. Grand Theft Auto V? Grand Theft Auto V had... This is it right here. Oh, this is the trailer. Mafia 3. Let's see here. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Ooh. This is intellect Nixon. Watch that. Fucking graphics. This video is a little long, but... How long is it?

Four minutes. Oh. So is this you here with the backpack? This is me the whole way. I had to do all that shit. Even at the end here, I kicked this guy into the creek. The face is different. It's an actor named Alex from New York.

He's awesome. So the facial scan and the voice this fucking video the video is incredible whoa Whoa. Does it feel bizarre having some dude's face on your body? No, because I've met him and he's awesome. If he was a douche, then I would look at it totally different. But I love the guy.

He's awesome. That would suck. The fucking video graphics are insanely good. is really downplayed too just because it's a youtube like when you when i go in the studio and see what they've done with it and you get to play the game the end game is just it's it's they have whole teams that do the environment whole teams that do buildings everything you can go into there's not a door in the game that you can't walk into and have some type of environment to play with just like the hair and the grass when they were in nom when they're flying with the helicopters so they yes like look at the fucking grass the shadows and the this is incredible the facial recognition is the same stuff that

robert zemeckis was using in his movies when they would scan in we We flew to LA to do it. It's pretty... Yeah. Seems like it's got a dope soundtrack. Yeah, well, it's late 60s, early 70s. Obviously, there's some good music to choose from.

This is awesome, man. Wow. And we get fucking some nice gory kills for people that are into that sort of thing. Wow. Yeah, it's amazing. If you want to talk about people that work hard, nobody works like, well, I don't want to say nobody,

but they work some insane fucking long hours, man, putting together a video game, some really time-intensive stuff. Yeah, and it's around the clock. You see these guys when I go to the mo-cap studio, it's real laid back. It's the same place they do the WWE game and the basketball game, that kind of thing. But when you go in and you see the guys that write the code and actually make the game, you can tell they're on a deadline. They're having to fix bugs and do all kinds of things, and it's just a grind. They're definitely putting in extreme hours.

Yeah, it's horrific. But what I was getting to before I jumped off on the side there was in fighting, I always had an idea of what I could do with my time. And if I had a fight coming up and I'm playing video games, there's nothing like a deadline of this guy's going to try to knock me out in six weeks, five weeks, four weeks, three weeks. Every day you start to look at that day at the end of the day and say, what did I do today to make myself better?

How did I spend my time? And if my pie chart had three hours of entertaining myself when I could have been learning about something else to help me like nutrition or different training modalities, that kind of thing. I mean, the choice was made just overnight. It was like, okay, I'm done playing video games. I have a PlayStation three, just collecting dust. I don't have a new next generation. I'll probably get one just to play this game. um yeah that really instilled in me a love and a thirst for knowledge and that's when i started reading about i read more books in my fight

career than i ever did in college that's interesting ever i mean i'd have these camps where that's really how i'd spend my time is just trying to figure out how to better myself for the fight well you were in a strange position too, because you were a guy who came to martial arts sort of late in life. So you came into it late in life as a great athlete, who's learning all the different aspects of MMA, all the different martial arts techniques, and then competing in the highest level of the sport, like pretty much right away. Yeah, that was pretty dumb. It could have gone a lot smarter.

Yeah, it could have gone a lot more intelligently, planning a career and things like that. But really, it just all happened by storm. Yeah, I agree that that's not the way to do it. But some people can Jon Jones it. There's a few guys that can do it. Well, I talk about John Jones or a guy like Daniel Cormier you look at their wrestling background it's not like they were doing something totally different they were in martial arts the whole time whether you want to call it that or

not they're in martial arts their whole lives no yeah and then yeah and now they can focus on I mean look at Cormier's has striking because he didn't have to focus on he didn't have to spend time dividing up that pie chart into wrestling practice and other things, right? Just a little bit will keep him sharp there but I can really learn these other things and dive into them. Well it's also when you're a master at one of those things

like sort of how Damien Maia is with Jiu Jitsu, he's such a master at it that all those other things he just has to be proficient enough so he can get you in a position where he could use his mastery you can look at verdum his striking has really improved over the years because he always had jiu-jitsu in his back exactly exactly and had it on such a high level that anybody he gets to the ground with is pretty fucked you're

in a real bad spot but your your path was the path of the ultimate fighter. You know, like that TV show and not just people that are on the TV show, but people that do well in the smaller circuit, you know, smaller shows. And then, you know, they get a couple fights under their belt and they start looking good and then they get the call. You know, hey, we need a fight. Someone needs to fight this guy on three weeks' notice. You're willing to do this. That's how a lot of guys get into the UFC, fallouts.

Someone from another organization looks attractive. They've got something going on. This guy's got potential. But to engineer a career correctly, you would do it sort of the same way they did with Floyd Mayweather in boxing or someone along those lines. You would take them slowly through the amateur ranks, develop their skills, and then test them a little bit more every fight. A little bit more, give them some fights where they can work on some things. Give them a guy who's a brawler. Give them a guy who's a boxer but he's feather-fisted.

Give them a guy who, you know, he hits really hard but he fades after two or three rounds. them a guy who, you know, he hits really hard, but he fades after two or three rounds. And there's all these different sort of tests that you can give a boxer and know when they're ready for those tests. And the whole time they're getting their cage or ring time in. They're getting all that. The butterfly's out. They're spending more time in the pocket and inside the old telephone pole booth. Telephone pole.

Telephone booth. With you, they just fucking put your ass in a catapult and launched you to the deepest part of the ocean. It was quick. Yeah. That was never a plan though, right? It was like something that sort of came along. No, I didn't. Well, football ended at ASU and I was pretty depressed. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew I didn't want to have a fucking desk job and athletics were really my outlet in life. You know, I hadn't discovered psychedelics or meditation or any of that stuff. Sorry. Is that you? Inappropriate. No worries. I had turned it up just so I could hear you. So what led you to... I started training in mixed martial arts just because I was tired of being a

rat on the wheel. You know, treadmills and lifting weights wasn't doing it for me and how old were you 26 wow no martial arts at all before that uh I mean I wrestled in high school so high school wrestling background all four years uh three years and two years in junior high okay that's a little something I was decent, not great. But yeah, so I got into it. And then as I was learning, there was a local guy down in Arizona and he ran like a little sleazy organization down there. And he was like, hey, you know, you're big and you look good. And I know you played football at ASU. Why don't you get in there and fight for me? And I was like, I don't know, man. I fought a lot growing up, but it's different. It's different when you are in the moment and you want to destroy someone versus some guy who's trained for you you've never met before right it's like do it get your feet wet if you like it do it again if you

don't like it never do it again but at least try it one time right it's like okay so my first fight it was a 29 second victory second fight was a 19-second victory. Both knees to the stomach. Off of like three months of Muay Thai training. And then from there I was hooked. Like you knock a guy out, you know. That is fucking, there's no drug like that. I mean, you're just like, just lit up on fire. And then I started training and really trying to get more serious about it.

But I fought a lot of fights quickly. So there was no development in between. I got to 5-0 inside five months. 6-0, I signed with the King of the Cage after that. And then, yeah, I was getting $100 a fight in my first five fights. Wow. And then I got $1,000 a fight in King of the Cage. And after I took my first loss, I was still training out,

kind of doing my own thing in Arizona before Bader and those guys had their own gym and so Kane was at AKA and I'm from the Bay Area I was born and raised there so it just made sense like I knew Kane from college but I didn't we weren't pals or anything I just knew him when I was playing football and he was wrestling I was like oh that's the heavyweight wrestler out here he's a bad dude and then when I heard he was wrestling, I was like, oh, that's the heavyweight wrestler I hear is a bad dude. And then when I heard he was at AKA already, and you already had Kostchek, Swick, Fitch, Thompson, AKA was already AKA, you know, and Frank Shamrock had already been there,

Bob Cook had an in with the UFC, that kind of thing, so it just made sense to move home and start training there full time, and that's what I did, and within, I think, six months, they got me on the Ultimate Fighter season eight, and the rest is history. Wow. Do you ever think of it like, man, if I had to do it all again differently, I would do it slower.

I would take my time more. Yeah, there's a million changes I could have made to it. But in the end, I'm really happy with what fighting gave me. Fighting brought me. I mean, I can't say, I give this all the credit here, but that doorway opened up other doorways and those doorways opened up other doorways to me. And that really, that was a catalyst for me

having just deep peace inside, you know, and all these things came from that one little bead in fighting, you know, like wanting to do better for myself because a guy was going to punch me meant learning about meditation, learning about breath work, learning about just getting more out of life, you know, and then, oh, okay, hey, psychedelics can be a teacher as well. You know, those, these kinds of things all kind of came to me in, in that same timeline. so it was sort of like the not necessarily anxiety but the urgency of knowing that you had to prepare for

combat that you're you're constantly trying to better yourself because the consequences of not doing that are so grave that it's sort of like ignited this fuel for improvement in you yeah I was like what the fuck did I do today you know like you look back at the end of the day like what did I do today did I do anything to make me better did I do you know like it's one thing to be a lot of guys are like hey you know I went to the gym twice I trained hard I got a massage that was my recovery I'm good I'm good with watching TV and just vegging out and doing whatever and that's fine if you're I mean when you're

beat sometimes you just need to entertain yourself and relax that's fine too but you know that that just fueled reading that really became like where I'm gonna read and in meditation but meditation I was like a lot of people I didn't get it for a very long time I just kind of forced myself to do it and over time I got a little easier but it wasn't until ayahuasca that I really understood meditation and now with Wim Hof I I mean, he's just added a whole nother layer to meditation for me that I didn't have before. Uh, same thing with my wife. I mean, the Wim Hof breathing techniques are just, they're phenomenal. Yeah. He's incredible. I can't

say enough good stuff about that guy. He's a fascinating character too. You know, just what he's been able to do is like the swimming underwater under blocks of ice in the frozen ocean, 100 yards. You're supposed to swim 50 and he missed the hole and he doubled his distance and then frozen retinas. Fucking G. He couldn't see because his eyeballs froze. Like what? God damn it. He's incredible.

He's a very unusual human, but a lot of people use that method now, that method of breathing. I use it before I go on stage. I take these big, crazy Wim Hof breaths before I go on stage. There's something to it. All the way in, let it go. Yeah. All the way in, let it go. Yeah, he's quite a character, man.

He's quite an inspirational guy, too. There's a lot of people that have really gravitated towards him. His story was amazing. And I've heard him on Ferris. I heard him on Ben Greenfield's podcast. When you had him on and you cracked beers, he opened up. You know what I'm saying? You could tell.

He got comfortable. And you could get more from him than the Vice documentary. And I love Vice, but I thought the Vice documentary was shit. It's 40 minutes. This guy's fixing his fucking hair. And I can't tell if people are following because he's so charismatic or not he's like no dude yeah but he said feeling is believing right the second you feel that charge in your hands three four or five rounds deep you know like he's not full of shit like you're feeling chi you're feeling energy you're feeling

what you can label it whatever you want but i mean you feel good inside? That's undeniable. Well, inspiration is a type of fuel, right? I mean, when you get inspired, you fire up, you literally can feel yourself getting pumped, right? What is that? If you hear a great song where you're working out and you're like, and you just get fucking pumped, that's a real thing, whatever that is. Like, whatever the feeling that you get that comes along with inspiration, like whether it's a great movie or a great song or something that just really gets you, that energy is real. It is real.

Where the fuck is it coming from? Well, that's thousands of years people have discussed it. Some people, oh, that's woo-woo shit, or what are you going to tell me what my fucking aura looks like no i can't see your fucking aura but i do believe we have this energy field in fact there's there's books and there's science that now um valerie hunt wrote a infinite mind she was a professor at ucla and they actually have a place in ucla where they can conduct studies on the human energy field and they've mapped this out by changing things the electromagnetism they can make people

have emotional breakdowns lose complete loss of motor control like they have just all of a sudden they have to sit they can't even stand they can't even keep themselves up but how are they doing it like with like they're manipulating through ions no no no that's like a metal it's a good metal room, some type of special room that they have them go in. And they just change this thing on a dial and the field influences your human energy field. Whoa. And it's fucking verified. They did this a while ago, too.

That's as crazy as it's like they've known about this 70s, 80s, for sure. There's an incredible Radiolab podcast where they put electrodes on this woman. They sent her through this sniper training video game thing that they do where you have like a rifle and there's a video game in front of you and presented with all these different scenarios like a hostage takeover. There's terrorists show up. They start shooting at you. And you try to shoot the terrorists under duress you know you're stressed out and so they take her through this thing she does

terrible just her everything's off just panicky everything and then they do it when they attach these electrodes to her and stimulate with electricity parts of her head just on the outside like transdermal II I think it's were they doing Electrical stimulation certain frequencies were they trying to manipulate frequency or it was they just trying to work like on frontal lobe or things like that I don't know. I don't know the exact science behind it, but she then did it and went Like 10 for 10 like killed everybody like it was insane like her accuracy went through the roof now They got kids doing this shit where they try to make their own out of like battery packs.

Yes. Yeah. And they're like, hey, this is all new science. Nobody's been doing this for decades. We don't know what the ramifications are. Yeah. That was the Radiolab podcast sort of focused on some of those people like, oh, well, I went deaf for a couple of days.

Like what the fuck are you doing to your head, man? Because they're just taking like nine volt batteries and like taping wires to their skull and juicing themselves. With no fucking clue what they're doing. But there's something going on. And the researchers that are working on it think that they can accentuate learning. They can accentuate flow states where you get into some sort of a zen moment. That's guaranteed. You're familiar with binaural beats, right?

Yes. So explain that for people that don't know what. sort of a zen moment that's guaranteed you're familiar with binaural beats right yes so uh by that's that explain that for people that came out in the 1950s they wanted to see what uh sound sound wave therapy could do and things like that and basically um so you would wear headphones or earbuds and the the basic concept the premise would be i can play uh something at 8 hertz through your left and 12 hertz through your right, and your brain will match them in the middle at 10 hertz. Well, 10 hertz is the frequency of alpha waves. So our brain produces a wide variety of different waves from 0.5 delta when you're in deep sleep all the way up to beta state,

which we're in right now drinking coffee and thinking. when you're in deep sleep, all the way up to beta state, which we're in right now, drinking coffee and thinking. In between that, you have an alpha state, which is closer to the Earth's resonance, the Earth's magnetic field, where that's like a meditative state. So you could have a flow state there. I know Aubrey Marcus has spoken about this. That is the flow state range between like 7.8 to 11, somewhere in there. Then below that, deep meditation, theta state, pre-sleep, and then delta. And there's other things in there. But basically, through binaural beats, you put on these headphones, you can listen to whatever, the ocean or rain or any of these things, and you would have these different frequencies playing through your ears. And in that,

you basically trick your brain into producing these brainwaves, and within minutes, you feel like, oh, I just took a really nice nap. Like, I feel good. I feel refreshed, that kind of thing. Wow. That would probably be great if you were in, like, a pool tournament or something like that, like something where you wanted to relax and get in the zone. I would think, like, archery or darts or something where you just, like, or three-pointers, you know, shooting three-pointers where you just get into that feel, like shoo, whatever that is, whatever that flow state is.

Oh, you're thoughtless, basically. You know, when you're in the beta state, that's you were thinking, your mind's racing. I was in the beta state two nights ago when I had three hours of sleep thinking of all these possible rabbit holes we'd go down conversation-wise. Yeah, that state of the lack of sleep state is my shittiest thinking state. I come up with my worst thoughts when I'm exhausted. You can't turn the mind off. Yeah, a lot of people have that issue.

Yeah. Well, there's also some silly creative ideas, though, that come up when you're exhausted. Sometimes when I'm exhausted, I'll say the most ridiculous shit, and it'll turn out to be funny, and I have to write it down. The writers on news radio, the sitcom I was on back in the day, they used to stay up late on purpose. They wouldn't start writing until 2 or 3 in the morning, and they would get themselves into like an exhausted stupor and then they would start writing because all their writing would be like really hilariously silly because they were just fucking falling asleep.

They were just out of it. Like there's a state that you get that a lot of writers would try to trick themselves into just by like getting exhausted. Yeah, it makes sense. So when you're fighting, like what was the first sort of improvement path that you started upon? Diet and nutrition right off the bat.

That was the one where I was like, hey, this is something I can control. It'll help me just recovery. You know, how do I recover faster? How do I flush metabolic waste? Yeah, that really was it. I mean, I've always been into supplements. I read the muscle mag since I was a little kid, that kind of thing. And certain stuff works, a lot of stuff doesn't.

But really, what you put in your body has a huge impact. I mean, anybody who's ever cleaned up their diet and felt differently from it, even listen to Red Van talking about the weight loss and how he has energy now. He just feels happy, right? Well, that's in Brain Maker also. Even listen to Red Van talking about the weight loss and how he has energy now. He just feels happy. Right? Well, that's in Brain Maker also. He talks about 80% of our serotonin is made in our guts by bacteria. 80% of our feel-good hormone is made in our guts by bacteria. Isn't that great?

That's just insane. Do you think food doesn't impact that? We know every cell of our body is made from what we put in. So a lot of people don't think, oh, I eat this donut and my will change it into what it needs to be changed into bullshit no and on top of that you influence the microbiome by what you put in your body if you put in good stuff it's easy to see like yeah of course you feel better yeah we like to think of ourselves as independent from our food but we're actually made out of our food that's completely yeah i was uh i had salmon the other night at a restaurant and um I said to my friend, I said to Tony, Tony Hinchcliffe, I was like, I don't think this is wild salmon.

And he said, why? I said, because it's too light. It's too light colored. I don't, you know, they said it's wild line caught salmon. I'm like, eh, not really buying it. And I said, you know, when you see wild salmon, it's like more of a dark orange. And he said, well, why is that? I said, salmon, it's like more of a dark orange. And he said, well, why is that? I said, well, it's actually because of what they eat.

It's from bugs, like certain bugs that they eat. Or shrimp? What the fuck is it? Shrimp or bugs? Find out why salmon are red. Ask Jamie. Acestanthin. I know I'm fucking butchering this.

Acestanthin? It's from a bug, right? It's like A-X-A-N-T-H-I-N. It's sold in supplements. Hawkeye salmon. Salmon flesh due to their diet. Salmon gain 99% or more of their body mass in the ocean. The foods they eat, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The food they eat in the ocean is high in carotenoids, the same pigment that gives carrots color. These pigments are stored in their flesh. A salmon approaches their spawning grounds. They begin to absorb the scales. Huh. Huh. They begin to absorb their scales.

Ooh. How weird. They get mushy. Have you ever caught a salmon when it's dying, when they're spawning? Man, we went to, I had a bachelor party. My buddy goes up every year to alaska and so we went fishing off the kenai river but we were we just like fitted in before his wedding so we were about a month or two late to the party and it was a feast for seagulls

they were like all these old timers that spawned and they're like swimming along like just fucking just full layers of skin and scales just floating off them ready to die. Yeah, they become mushy. Their flesh is like difficult to eat, too. It's disgusting. Yeah, it's nasty. Like you could eat it if you have to if you want to stay alive. But they're literally breaking down.

We had a little sashimi and that was a mistake for sure. You should never eat salmon sashimi. Really? Yeah. Ever? Yeah, it's not a smart move because they have parasites. Ocean fish are much better

in regards to being... So if you caught salmon in the ocean, you're cool to do it then? Even then, because they go back and forth. I think it's something about freshwater fish are much more susceptible to parasites. So the nasty shit we put in there? Probably. Yeah. I don't even know if it's nasty shit we put in there? Probably.

Yeah. I don't even know if it's nasty shit we put in there. I think that's just nature. I think fish in the ocean naturally are, you have a higher, less likelihood of contracting any sort of parasites, where you have a higher likelihood of getting it from freshwater fish. Like you should never eat like largemouth bass, like sashimi. You shouldn't eat that, I don't think.

Really, I don't think I'm talking out of my ass here. I'm pretty sure I've read that you're not supposed to eat salmon sushi. But people do. Yeah. People do. But anyway, point being, this fish was like really kind of pale and then it we were talking about like how weird it is that your food actually changes the color of your skin and we were talking about black bears that eat blackberries and blueberries like if you eat um

they they it's like certain hunters will go after bears that are in the fall because the fall bears, they gorge on blueberries. And their flesh is just supposed to be unbelievably delicious, like some of the best tasting meat you can get. And their flesh and then their fat itself is like a purple color from all the blueberries. It's like it changes their actual physical flesh. And it makes it absorb. It just makes you think, what about all these people that are eating McDonald's and Twinkies and shit? Like, what is their flesh? It's just high fructose corn syrup and trans fats and just dog shit.

Just pumping through your tissues. That was me in college. Just any calories I could get a hold of. Just brutal. Me in college, just any calories I could get a hold of, just brutal. Well, you know, ultimately that stuff breaks down to protein and water and all the various aspects of it. But if that's all you eat, no wonder why so many people are depressed. If you look at the modern American diet, you look at the modern American diet, the sedentary lifestyle, and then you look at the fact that people feel like shit.

And what is depression? Well, there's all sorts of different kinds of depression. There's some depression that's absolutely caused by a chemical imbalance. Your brain's sick, you know, just like your liver can get sick and your lungs can get sick, your brain can get sick. people with sedentary lifestyles, shitty diet, and just no real pushing of the body. Well, your body never gets to flush it out, never gets to blow those hormones up, never gets to get that blood pumping. I'd argue the brain gets sick because you let it get that way. You stop moving, you stop putting good things in your body, and then you have this downward spiral that just snowballs into deep depression that your buddy coming over is going to cheer you up. Yeah.

Whatever it is, you're not going to snap yourself out of that just overnight and you're definitely not going to get it from popping a pill. I mean, you got to get off your ass and move and start getting back out in nature. Yeah. The pill thing is a weird one because I know for some people it's been very beneficial. I know people that were like severely depressed, they got an antidepressants and they eventually weaned themselves off, but they got happy first. So it's like, did they need the pills? No, but the pills did help them. And I wonder, I don't, I'm not going to negate that at all, but I wonder what lifestyle choices

did they make during that process as they started feeling better? Like, oh, I feel a little bit better. Sure, let's go for a hike. Whatever it is. What did they do in addition to that that helped them so they don't have the pills now, right? Because they're off the pills now, right? So how do you get to that point where you can be like, I don't need this anymore.

Well, two dudes that I know, one of them, he got married, fell in love, started his own business. His business became very successful, started doing really well in life, started feeling better about himself. And then it all sort of fell together. And then he said, you know what, I'm going to get off these fucking pills. And he slowly weaned himself off and he's still happy. And the other one got successful and got more confident and then realized that the pills were probably like dulling his senses in some sort of way and then slowly wean pills were probably like dulling his senses in some sort of way and then slowly weaned himself off.

But he hasn't really got into exercise. The other thing he did was he got off Propecia. That Propecia shit that dudes do to keep their hair. I took that in college. Ooh. Yeah. That stuff killed my dick like a sniper. DHT blocker, right?

Yeah. It's not good. DHT makes you a man. Yeah. It makes you bald, makes you have body hair. Yeah. You don't want to get rid of that. Diet, hydro, testosterone.

You don't want to get rid of that. Well, it can depress people. It can cause severe depression in some people. It didn't in me, but it definitely killed my dick. Like a gun. That would make me depressed just right then. That's depressing. I mean, it doesn't totally kill it, but it's definitely what beats the fuck out of it.

Come on, what are you doing? Why are you doing this to me? Yeah, well, they say that, you know, there's a balance that your hormones achieve. And anytime you fuck with that balance with something like Propecia that, you know, that blocks dihydrotestosterone, your body's like, all right,

well, what the hell's going on here? Why is this blocked? Like, what is our issue here? And it can cause a cascade of issues. Like, anytime you've, like, to treat the body as anything other than a holistic approach. If you have a holistic approach, you look at it, this guy's depressed. Okay, well, let's look at his diet. No, no, no, no, no. We need to get him on a pill. Well, that doesn't make any sense. You need to look at the whole thing. Like, what's his diet like? How often does he sleep?

Does he drink a lot of water? Does he have something to get over? Does something to fucking his wife die? Maybe his diet's clean as shit. What's going on there? Sometimes you just have to overcome. You just have to overcome periods of life that just suck. That's real, too.

I mean, people want a fix for that. Give me a pill. I got to get past this stage of life. Well, then you're going to sleep through it. That's everything, though, with the Western medicine. It's just the I'm broken, fix me. Let me go. You're the professional.

Fix my knee. Fix my hip. Western medicine is the shit, though, if you break your arm. They fixed my shoulder when I was a dumbass and had a torn labrum. I love it for that. What happened to your shoulder? What did you do? I was overtraining and decided to try to max out on barbell snatch and missed it.

I didn't feel anything there. Then I waited a minute and reattempted the same weight, and then I felt it. It just felt like no strength at all. So it was a full slap tear came to the same thing it takes for you you're right you talk to people that have shoulder surgery I think I thought I had this dumbass idea in my head like oh you know I'll be able to run still and I like no you can't do any of that I couldn't even walk like I had to be very careful with my arm in a sling for at least the first six weeks. Then, you know, at six months, I got to start rehab. It took me a whole year.

Wow. It really did. And really, I give a ton of credit to Kelly Starrett for getting full range of motion back. Becoming a supple leopard guy. Like, I had, for a long period of time, thought, like, this is as far as my arm's going to go. Like, not quite Hail Hitler, but, you know know, like I had no full range of motion. I couldn't get my bicep. Yeah, couldn't get my bicep to my ear.

And I knew it was short in certain positions. Like if you get in grappling, jujitsu, wrestling, things like that, guy sprawls while you're holding a single leg, that's nine, that three inches makes all the difference in the world. Like from feeling like, hey, this guy's putting pressure on me, I should change positions, or my arm's gonna snap.

Like that's the difference. What about if you're defending like a head and arm choke on the right side and someone tries to straighten your arm out? What is that like when it presses up against your head? Everything's fine now, but initially it was a nightmare. Yeah, like just I couldn't get biceps to ear while I'm talking to you. So for sure if someone's trying to do that to me, then it's going to feel like something's going to tear.

Six months before you could start doing rehab. And that was a process that was, you know, just nasty. So I know now, listen to my body. Don't push the envelope. Nothing, you know. And when you say a slap tear, what does that mean? It's an acronym. It's the placement of the, what is it?

The placement of, well, the lab what is it the placement of? Well, the labrum is like the, it holds this ball in place, right? So slap is the position of it. It's on the front side. If I remember correctly, it was a few years ago. But yeah, it's all placement. They do it all arthroscopic? Yeah. So they just go in there and sew it back up?

Is that what they did? Yeah, very, very minimal scarring there. But, yeah, it's basically what it is. They just go in. They do everything through the vision of the little cameras. And it's an easy fix for them. I had a great guy. He's worked on tons of NFL guys.

And I'm grateful that I have full recovery. But, really, it's a nasty deal to have to go through. Yeah, Tate Fletcher just went through something. Like this weekend he went through something. Like this weekend, he went through something. He just texted me about it. Hold on a second. It's something called, this is really interesting shit, man. It's, okay.

It's called Hyalinex, Hyalinex injections. They're site injections where there are impediments to movement. And anything they have with sliding tissue. Oh, there it is. Hyalinex. And he was saying that it's an enzyme and that they're testing it on people that have joint issues. And somehow or another, it's supposed to mitigate the issues of mobility in joint problems. I think I need to get my dad in on that.

He can't open his arms. This is as far as his arms go. How come? So you can arm bar him like that. He's got, like, calcium deposits and shit in his elbows. He's had surgery on both of them. Damn. From what?

You know, he's eating cleaner now, but for years he ate whatever the hell he wanted. He still did. I mean, he got his black belt a year ago, so he's on the mat all the time. He does a lot of jiu-jitsu. How old's your dad? 64. That's amazing. Gets his black belt at 63.

What a stud. He started at 56. What a stud. He was a fat loser with a super, super stressed job, you know, sales. Really? Yeah, oh yeah. That's amazing. When I started fighting, he got into jujitsu.

He did full contact karate, boxing, wrestling. So he understood striking. He understood wrestling. But the second he hit the mat, he was like, I don't know what the fuck these guys are doing. Like, I have to learn. And once he started, he immediately became addicted. Like anybody who does jujitsu, you know the feeling you get when you first start. And he lost 50 pounds without even changing his diet in the first six months.

So it's been a life changer for him, for sure. That's fucking great. I love hearing that. Like Anthony Bourdain keeps saying he'll never get his black belt. Bullshit. That guy will get his black belt. He started when he was, I think, 57. And he's got his blue belt now at 58.

He'll get it for sure. He'll get it. He's a maniac. He takes one private and one full class, one regular class a day. Every day. Every day. Every day. He's a maniac.

He's got the cheese. Why not? He's got the cheese. And he's also got the obsession. And, you know, it's funny. I talked to BJ Penn about this. BJ Penn was hilarious about this. He was talking to this guy, and the guy was like, you know, he told, you know,

because BJ famously got his black belt in three years and won the Mundial three years in. And this guy had gotten his black belt somewhere, I think, around four years. And BJ was like, well, he goes, man, you must be really talented. years in and this guy had gotten his black belt somewhere i think around four years and bj was like well he goes man he goes you you must be really talented and he goes no man he goes i'm obsessed he goes i'm addicted like you i'm addicted and bj started laughing he goes i realized yeah i was addicted i was addicted to jujitsu like you can get addicted to good things too oh yeah yeah no question i mean that's that that is runners high that's why people would sign up for a race that's wait it's not

healthy you need to run that far but it feels good training and preparing and getting your body ready for that and that keeps you coming back for more yeah like 100 mile runs those are fucking terrible destroy you they've got to be bad yeah they've done blood work on people even not just after a marathon which is ridiculous in its own right. But they would see like borderline kidney failure. Like your kidneys can barely keep up with removing metabolic waste. Yeah, you piss after those things and your piss looks like Coca-Cola.

Well, I'm out. I'm out. No. No, I never want to get to a point where my pee looks like Coke. That's fucking terrible, man. But people, like, they also get addicted to pushing themselves. That's a big one, you know? Like my friend Cameron Haynes, he's a bow hunter, but he also does ultra marathons, a lot of marathons.

He started getting in shape just so he could, you know, get up the mountains easier. Like, because in bow hunting, there's two things that come into play. get up the mountains easier like because in bow hunting there's two things that come into play one you have to be fit in order to get up the mountains because all that hiking it's exhausting especially at high altitude and two you have to be strong to be able to pack out like you carry an animal you kill it you have to get it down the mountains a lot of work so those two things led him down this road of starting to do marathons and lifting a lot of weights and doing all these different things but now he's doing like ultra marathons i'm like he's doing something called the bigfoot challenge it's 200 miles it's like 100 miles a day and the next day another 100 miles like

damn i wonder what the cutoff is for that because sometimes they're right around like 22 hours just what do you do you take an hour nap and then go right back to running? I guess. I don't even know if you sleep. I mean, you're probably in so much fucking agony after 24 hours of running. 200 miles. So stupid. 100 wasn't enough, guys. Let's weed out the pussies here and make it 200. Some lady in my

neighborhood did it. She did 200 fucking miles. She did a mile, 100 miles one day, 100 miles the next day. This bitch is crazy. Yeah. I say bitch with all due respect. And admiration. Damn. Yeah, I don't mean like

anything wrong with her. She's just tough as shit. But they get addicted to like pushing themselves. Like there's a thing that comes to some people when they get involved in these heavy endurance races where part of the addiction is one more hour, five more miles, ten more miles, push. Just push yourself through it. You do get into a flow state, and the longer you go, the better it feels.

I mean, obviously, you can deal with ticky-tack injuries and things like that or whatever you've got to deal with in the race. But at a certain point in time, the mental chatter quiets down, and you just find your rhythm and you find your breathing. And that can be meditative completely. And the longer it goes, the better for people like that. Once you're in that state, I mean, I've felt that in half marathons on the last six miles and finished stronger in the end than I did in the first half.

You know, I'm sure runners would be like, oh, yeah, of course. If you ran more, you'd know that, dummy. But I get that. So that's why we sign up for this 50K coming up, just for the fact, like, all right, Kelly started at a 50K at 230 pounds. It can be done. Right. You know?

And I'm not saying I'm going to make a regular habit of this. I don't think it's healthy by any means. But I do want to do it. A 50K is like a marathon, right? A marathon is what? It's a little bit longer. I think a marathon is 26.2 miles and a 50K is right around 33 maybe. Oh, okay.

That makes sense. I'm sure Jamie would know the powers of Google. The powers of Google. It's 31 miles. 31. Jamie's a runner too. of Google the powers of Google 31 miles 31 Jamie's a runner too so um that's um so is that what like fuels your competitive desires now I like doing different things you know like I I working out with Jesse Burdick he's the

guy who does power wad he's a beast you know so training once a week I'll go up and train with him in Dublin at CSA and we do some heavy lower body. It could be anything. So we'll squat heavy one day. We'll do heavy sumo deadlift, heavy conventional, whatever. There's just it's good to train with guys

that are way better than you at whatever their respective thing is. And I feel like I can go in there and learn from him and the guys they got working out there. That does me a lot of good. And I love lifting. Who doesn't want to be stronger?

Like, once you get a taste for that, that is an addictive thing. And I love lifting heavyweight because I feel better throughout the week. You know, I just feel better as a person doing that. When I'm in shape, I feel better being in shape. So going for longer distance runs and having something you know if there's light at the end of the tunnel like april 9th i'm running this 50k that makes it easy for me to come home when i'm tired and say i i gotta get at least three miles in today that kind of thing you know like i know this event's coming up so i'm gonna put in

some road work today and it doesn't fuck with your shoulder at all this heavy lifting like oh no the shoulder is a hundred% now. And I give full, I can't, I mean, it's not like I'm blowing the guy, but Kelly Start really, I have everything to thank from that guy. What did you do that he prescribed? All of his banded mobility. And you can look on mobilitywad.com.

He posted 500 videos on YouTube. He's got a shoulder one that's, I think, five minutes long. It's not even that long. But he shows eight different stretches for the shoulder using one of those rogue bands. Right. And you spend two minutes in a stretch minimum. So this 20, 30 second hold shit is out the window. He talks about fascia in order to release. It really has to be, have some time under tension and you know, you distract things. So I couldn't, I wouldn't get the same experience if I put my hand on a wall and tried to stretch my chest. Right. But if I

can pull on this band, it distracts the impingement in my shoulder. And now the fascia from the palm of my hand to my thumb will go all the way to my earlobe and open up. So I'll feel everything the same way a foam roller can, relax my IT band right right right now I can get that from my shoulder and all these different positions and that's what gives me my mobility back so the basic idea is that hey I can I need to be able to get in this position cold right that's what I would you name his book that supple leopard well leopards you don't see them getting up and hey I'm gonna do a five minute warm-up guys I'll catch up with you in a second yeah you know they're not you might do downward dog

upward dog and then boom they're going right so I have that ability my shoulder now because of putting in that work over time well that's what a lot of fighters are realizing now the importance of softness and flexibility and just to be pliable you have to be mobile yeah you have to be mobile and to be rigid and stiff it impedes movement like i see it a lot from people when they're trying to kick when i see guys kicking and i see like stiffness and like a sort of a general lack of fluidity in the way they move i can tell immediately i'm like this guy's just not flexible enough they're throwing these kicks and there's all this resistance from

their supporting leg there's resistance from their kicking leg and then there this resistance from their supporting leg, there's resistance from their kicking leg, and then there's resistance from their torso. You could see it all as they start throwing kicks, and then the kick will come up instead of go across. The hip won't be high enough. There won't be as much forward movement with the hip. It definitely could be mental too, though. You know, I always, looking back, honestly, on my career, I fought stiff. I fought stiff as fuck.

Right. Like, really stiff. I never sparred. I never fought the way I fought stiff. I fought stiff as fuck. Right. Like really stiff. I never sparred. I never fought the way I sparred. Right. I look at Luke Rockhold and I'm like, that guy fights the way he spars. Right. Like he doesn't give a fuck what's coming at him.

He kicks beautiful and with everything he's thrown is with power. Right. Yeah. So he mentally got to that point where he was just like, I know I'm going to destroy you and I'm not worried about what you're going to do. How much difference was there with you with how you performed in the gym versus how you performed inside the Octagon? I think it was a fairly big difference.

Like a 30% difference, 20% difference? I don't know. If I could put a number on it, I just feel like, you know, I mean, there's – I mean, it's hard to gauge with a guy like Kane. Kane destroyed everyone. It's not like he'd be like, oh, there was this time I sparred Kane and I got him. No, Kane whooped my ass every time we sparred. But there was a point in time where I did well with Dana Cormier or times where I did well with Luke Rockhold,

times where I did well with Mike Kyle and Paul Montello. And even in my best fights in the UFC, like with Ricardo Romero, I think that was the only time I got to get interviewed by you afterwards. It took me, like, the only reason the fight turned out that way and I was able to get in the zone was because I was so sick the night before. I fought at like 208. I had fucking sweat the bed. I was rolling around in my sweat, just soaked to bed. This worst fever I've ever had. And in the fight, I'm walking out, and I was gassed after two minutes of warming up.

I stopped warming up in the locker room, completely gassed. And I thought, like, I'm fucked. If this thing goes longer than a minute, I'm done. And then I realized right then, right when they shut the cage door, I have to fight. There's nothing I can do here but fight. And right when I made that realization, that put me in the zone because there was no thought. That's why the fight is 23 seconds, whatever it was, it felt like it was in slow motion. And I could never get back to that point because I didn't have the technical skills mentally to do it or just the know-how of how I

got there. You know know like i knew i can look back in hindsight and say yeah that's this was the catalyst i had my back against the wall and i just completely let go i know from the ayahuasca ceremonies and things like that like there's a big lesson in letting go and surrendering yes to the process don't fight it just fucking go with it yeah uh but those things didn't transfer the way i had hoped you know i talked about that before my last fight i hoped that the lessons i learned from ayahuasca of surrender would transfer and i would have this like i don't give a fuck mentality we're gonna do this and looking back on that fight i didn't i was still nervous as shit even

though look at photos online you know pat's going to punch me i wasn't afraid of getting punched no offense to pat cummins right i wasn't afraid of getting punched by him not after glover and manawa and i'm still like like i'm squeezing a loaf out you know right as he's about to hit me like i'm stiff rigid tense so there wasn't a transfer there of skills from the beauty of ayahuasca into the cage. Do you think that it was because you didn't have enough time to process it or you needed more of those experiences? Really, there's a number. There's a large, everything kind of goes together with that. I think really spending time developing yourself longer, right? There's no eight-week camp where I'm going to be as good a wrestler as that guy.

Right. Period. It doesn't matter who I'm working with. That said, obviously, you can build a game plan and work on take down defense. And you look at Ovin St. Preux, he did great against him. It was an excellent fight. So I could, you know, hindsight, maybe I could have done it like that. You know, maybe I could have had better footwork and done these things and worked on whatever.

I don't know. I don't really put too much thought into how I could have done that better now because I have really accepted the fact that I'm done doing that. You know, like the more I would put thought into how I could have done it better, the more it makes me want to do it. Right. Does that make sense? What was the big deciding factor to make you want to retire?

It really, really was a number of things, but I had a second job the whole time I was in the UFC, even with the fight of the nights. I had two fight of the nights. I got to train full time for maybe six months. Wow. And then the first loss, I had to go right back to work. So I'm bouncing at the titty bar, you know, bartending, managing, that kind of stuff. And you need sleep for recovery.

And I had just felt that window of I can sleep and train full time and know what it's's like to have full recovery now it's yanked back away from me why was it yanked back away because you when you lost you made less money is that what it is yeah and then well with the fracture to like even take for example when I had a one of those fights I got fight of the night with Maldonado that was my only fight that year so I got an extra $40,000. Then I was getting $10,000 and $10,000. That's $60,000, 10% coaches, 10% of management, pay the IRS. That's not a lot spread over the year, and it's less than a teacher.

So I needed to work, and then that's kind of how it goes. If you get hurt in a fight and you only fight that once that year, that could be the difference. It's ridiculous when you think about how much risk versus reward there is in the sport of fighting. At the very high levels, like when you're Conor McGregor or Ronda Rousey, yeah, you're going to make millions of dollars. But on the way up to that, like, fuck. Can you break through? That's really what it comes down to and at the same time I was becoming familiar with ayahuasca

I was having ceremonies where a lot of shit was getting uncovered and I don't mean like I worked through all this baggage no there was I had many many great visions and each ceremony has its own it has its own thing.

It's completely unique from another. Same thing with DMT. That's its own fucking thing, and it helped me grow as a person. I can't say which ceremony made me not have that spark, but over time, that spark went away. The spark to want to destroy another person slowly left me and it doesn't matter what a fighter tells you on I fight because of this I fight because of that they all inside them want to destroy another person deep down inside they

want to destroy something well that's what victory is yeah you have to watch the victory is you submit someone or you KO them that's the, that's the ultimate victory. You stop them. And that's really difficult to do. So the challenge is extremely high. And then the reward, the endorphins, the rush, the feeling of accomplishment, all those things. But at the end of the day, I think probably what ayahuasca and what DMT would show you is that you're causing damage. Yeah, it's just this destructive thing. There's no way around it.

Even if you both sign up for it, even if the guy talks shit before the fight, it doesn't matter what he does. Yeah, I don't know. I bet it would be really hard to handle if it was a mismatch. Like, say, if you took ayahuasca and you had this vision, and then you're supposed to fight somebody who you know, like, in your heart was really fucked. Like, maybe they had bad stand-up or something like that, and you knew they weren't going to be able to take you down.

Like, this guy's going to get lit up. Like, sorry, dude. You're under a false illusion of your abilities, you know? That would make it very difficult, I would imagine. Yeah. Well, I mean, you still see guys know, like, they kind of snap out of it when they have the opportunity to crush someone who's lifeless and the referee still hasn't stopped them, and then they pull back.

So there's moments there, and there's also moments where you're just, you know, you got the blinders on and it's like, finish this guy, you know, and I don't give a shit when the ref comes in. Yeah. So it was ayahuasca, you think, that started you off this, on this trip of retiring? How old are you now? 33. 33.

So you're still, athletically, you're still in your prime. I feel better than I've ever felt in my life, physically, mentally, emotionally. Does it ever, like, fuck with you every now and then? Does there ever, like, a little thing inside of you, like, come on, girl. If I watch, that's why I stop striking. Like, you sharpen the blade. You want to test it, you know? I still do.

I'll do jiu-jitsu the rest of my life, but I can't strike. If I strike, I know I'll have that itch. Really? You know, I'll have the itch to spar. And then from sparring, I'll have a couple good days. And who am I testing that against? Right. World champions.

So if I can hang, right, and I certainly should be able to apply this to guys that don't have a belt wrapped around their waist, right? But, you know, the more I've learned on, even listening to like Dr. Rhonda Patrick and people like that, I've had my face broken twice to act like that doesn't have permanent effects. I mean, it's ridiculous to think like,

oh, you know, it's just an orbital fracture. No, like I fucking smashed my face. Like there's for sure long-term damage there that i i'm not maybe not feeling it right now but that's an issue i have to address and seeing guys only a couple years older i'm 33 guys 35 36 and they start to slow down a little bit or uh sorry i was getting audio in just one ear now did it pop off sometimes that thing disconnects a little bit. See where the connection is? There we go.

Okay. Yeah, that was my knee. Yeah, you see, if I can notice it in other people who are just a couple years older than me, then I know that's what's going to happen. Because it's not, I mean, you watch a guy like Randy Couture fight, and you're like, oh, he's in everyone's face. It's grinding on dudes. Even though he's been knocked out and things like that, he didn't stand and bang with a lot of people.

Like there's not, I can't think of many fights, even when Bonner crushed me for 15 minutes and laid on me and didn't attempt much. I still took a beating in that fight. When I fought Glover, I had no broken bones, but that's the only fight where I was lost leaving the octagon. Bob left, and I didn't know how to get back to the locker room, and I didn't want to ask anyone because I didn't want a longer suspension, a medical suspension.

Whoa. I mean, he fucking buried two hooks after slipping my left-right combo one, left hook. Then I threw it again. He slips, buries the same exact spot in the temple. And, I mean, that's the only fight where I literally did not know where the locker room was. And I just wandered around talking to people, making small talk. Oh, hey, how's it going?

Yeah, that was a tough fight. Oh, yeah. Wow. And I didn't know. I didn't know where anything was. And then I finally made it back. I was like, oh, fuck, dude. That's bad.

That's really bad. So you didn't want to ask anybody because you didn't want a longer medical suspension. Yeah. Whoa. So I felt the effects there on the brain. I didn't feel the effects from the orbital fractures, but I could see the effects, right? And then, you know, you see guys just a couple years older slowing down a little bit and you learn about health and being holistic and nutrition and what am i doing for myself to be a better person how can i live get more out of life where's my quality of life right yeah well if i'm doing that and then that's why i could drinking if i want to alter my

consciousness there's a better way to do it than with that shit right and there shouldn't it shouldn't be a double-edged sword when did you quit drinking uh January 6th the last time I drank of this year last year in Peru oh last year I was uh I did a ceremony in Colombia and uh the guy was talking about addiction to things, and I never felt addicted at all to drinking, but I definitely drank like an asshole for sure many, many times. You know, but he had mentioned, next time you drink, ask what you were feeding. Everything we put in our body is feeding something. Ask what you're feeding. And it just didn't hit me then, but later on in the ceremony, it really stuck in.

Like I could see all the destructive behavior of, oh, yeah, let's party. Let's And it just, it didn't hit me then, but later on in the ceremony, it really stuck in. Like I could see all the, the destructive behavior of, oh yeah, let's party. Let's go balls to the wall. And I'm like, yeah, slapping five and just, you know, college spring breaker, ASU type jock, meathead, you know, more, more, more, more, more. And then just the destruction, the toll it was taking on me, you know, especially as you get older, like you can drink like that when you're young, but you get to 30, something stops working. Your hangovers last a little longer, you know, everything. It's harder to keep up. Well, don't you think it's also you're aware?

I think when you're young, like I remember being hungover when I was young, but I was so unaware of how that like what I put in, how it affected my body. Like, what I put in, how it affected my body. I just thought of myself as, like, I was in such a fog of confusion when I was young, just trying to get through life, that I don't think I was aware of my body like I am aware now. Yeah. Like, now if I do things, like, just changing my diet, I'm, like, really tuned in to what kind of effect is happening, if any. I'm trying to figure it out. I'm much more aware.

When I was in my 20s, I don't know if I necessarily recovered from hangovers better, but I didn't notice it as much because I was just dumb. Yeah, well, yeah, and there's that, what are we doing now? Let's get pizza or crack another beer, it'll get rid of it. Whatever. I'm with you on that. I do feel like there are, you age your organs just don't keep up the same you know and I feel like that was a big but really just the reflection for me

of seeing how I behaved with that versus like if I want to if I want to feel different thanks to the wonderful people in California that allow medical cannabis I can feel different right I can sleep like a baby and I can wake up with zero hangover. And I'm not gonna get fat from it, I'm not gonna feel like shit, I'm not gonna underperform the next day, mentally or physically.

You also get benefits from it, many benefits. Anti-inflammatory benefits, the mental benefits of it, the sensitivity benefits, the camaraderie that it sort of stimulates. There's a lot of sense of community that comes with smoking cannabis. It makes you like a more generous and nice person in a lot of ways. But alcohol, man, it has its place. I mean, I think it's fun in a lot of ways.

But, boy, it's so abused. But in this culture, in our culture, it's so abused but in in this culture in our culture it's so it's so commonly abused by so many people and they don't even consider it they just just pound them just fucking well and you can abuse pot too there's no doubt about that when i was in college i abused pot actually hearing graham hancock talk about his relationship on your podcast with cannabis and how ayahuasca showed him that and he quit for a while until coming back on the podcast and spoken with you which that was great that was evil ayahuasca kind of did the same thing for me it didn't show me my relationship with weed that way it actually reversed it but it showed me my relationship

with alcohol that way and now I don't need it but it also showed me like hey cannabis is a plant cannabis Dan Hardy said and one of his visions when he asked I was about cannabis cannabis is my sister was the answer mmm like this is another one of these is another teacher this is another tool this is here for you use it right and I think that if you treat it with respect and you have an intention and a reason why you're doing it and it's not, there's a time and a place for a man. I just want to get bombed and feel out of this world or I'm going to push the envelope and maybe do a mega dose and jump into a float tank, which I still need to try. But, you know, for the most part, you can have relatively small amounts of things like that and completely improve your quality of life with zero repercussion. Yeah.

Because you put in the time and you have the right intention of it. This is what I want to use it for. Right. Yeah, repercussions, that is something you have to weigh, action versus repercussion. And with alcohol, the repercussions are just fucking devastating over time. It's just such a fucking unfortunate one. They think they figured out a way to create alcohol without any hangover. There's been some new

research on something that gives you like an alcohol-like effect, but it doesn't give you a hangover. I hope it's not like synthetic weed or something. Right? The weirdo knockout shit. I always wonder what effects on internal organs fighting has. Not just

on the kidneys, which we know get really fucked up over weight cutting it's really bad for you kidney stones are one side effect that some people seem to suffer from dehydration from weight cutting i know aldo's had some kidney stones a lot of fighters have had kidney stones they're they're really common for guys who cut a lot of weight but also i just wonder just body kicks and knees to the body and punches. I mean, how many times can you get kicked in the liver before it does damage to your liver? I mean, if alcohol is bad for your liver, what does a shin do to it? You know, what is a fucking vicious left hook to the liver?

Just getting blasted. Yeah. Yeah, I wonder. I don't know if there's any. I mean, we constantly consider the stress on the brain and the damage to the brain from head impacts and brain trauma. But what about body trauma? I always wonder about that.

Because I've seen guys get fucking blasted to death. It ain't good. We know that. It's not like you watch a guy eat a liver shot and the fight's over from a body kick. And you're like, oh, he's... Yeah, rub some dirt on it. He's fine. No. Just ended the fight's over from a body kick, and you're like, oh, he's, yeah, rub some dirt on it. He's fine.

No. Just ended the fight. No. So when you look back at your career and you look back at all these wars and all these crazy fights that you got in, do you think about the damage? Is it something you just, like, put aside and you know that there probably was some done and just, just move forward and stay positive and be healthy from here on out? And I don't, here's one thing that I, I disagree with people when they say like, you know,

when we grew up, they said, Oh, Hey, you have a set number of brain cells and whatever you lose, you're not going to get back. So, so we now know that's bullshit. Like our brain can create new cells, neurogenesis happens. And the more you do, the more new stuff you do, whether it's learning an instrument or a new language or taking a different trail to hike, whatever that helps strengthen these new pathways, right. And make you smarter and just keep your brain young. Yeah. I don't think for one second that anything that I've done in my career can't be overcome or that I can't really feel like from diets like this and supplementing with MCTs and different things like that, I feel quicker now and sharper now than I ever have in my life mentally.

So that's good. But that said, I don't look back and say, oh, this did this to me. I look back and say, I don't want to do more of that. Right. Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it. I've talked about this on the podcast. I don't know if you've heard, but Bill Romanowski created that Neuro One supplement specifically because of his football career, because of all the head impacts that he had.

He's having memory issues, a bunch of issues with his brain. I wonder what's in it. Do you know what the product is? I don't have it here. He sent me a couple tubs of it because i talked about it a bunch of times and um it's not something that we sell at on it it's just something i love it's just good uh and uh it's the first nootropic i've ever tried before we created alpha brain and um do you stack them now no i just i rarely try neuro one but i

like to do different things i like to do i I like to occasionally try Paracetam. Yes. Yeah, that's good stuff. I'm way into nootrobics, yeah. You tried Aniracetam or Oxiracetam? Yes, I have. How do you like the difference? It's hard to tell.

You know, that's one of the things about it. I had a conversation with a dude last night at the comedy store. It was really funny because it was hilarious because the dude was hammered right he's like man i fucking tried alpha brain but uh shit i don't know if it worked i go okay define worked like what are you doing i was just fucking you know i'm just hanging hanging out man but i don't i don't it didn't feel any difference i go go, okay. It's not like going to make you smarter. Well, the idea behind it is if you're involved in a task, like for me, alpha brain and nootropics are really critical for me because I rely on my memory a lot.

Like when I'm doing the UFC, it's a big factor. I'm constantly bringing up past fights, and I'm constantly talking about different situations and transitions and you know this happens when you do that or that and there's all these like connections that I have to make my brain so verbal memory recalling fights things like that nootropics are critical for that kind of thing but if you don't have anything that requires your memory how do you know if it's working if you don't have anything that requires you to form sentences on the fly how do you know if it's working like so I think he anything that requires you to form sentences on the fly how do

you know if it's working like so i think he just had an a silly idea i think he thought that he was gonna take this stuff and all of a sudden he's like man i know what i'm doing with my life yeah like the fucking light bulb just got uploaded from the matrix with uh i get it i get it all man i didn't feel but it was hilarious because he was fucking hammered dude was hammered he's like i don't know if. But it was hilarious because he was fucking hammered. The dude was hammered. He's like, I don't know if I felt it. I'm like, okay, dude, first of all, how shit-faced are you right now? He's like, I'm pretty drunk.

So I'm like, well, this conversation is going to be weird anyway. You're probably not going to remember what I'm saying. But if you had to do something, it was important. And I explained all the different things that's been shown clinically clinically in double-blind placebo-controlled studies to improve on like these are like statistics like you can you can show when you can show it with 60 people and you can show that the people that take it have these effects versus the people that don't take it like this is this is where it will help you but it's not it's not gonna just make you smarter but for someone who

relies on their mind a lot whether it's for creativity or for me, I like to take it now even before I work out. I started doing it before I work out now. And I'm noticing less fatigue. My mind stays fresh longer. Like in grueling long-term workouts, like a long series of pad workouts, I can maintain my concentration like deep into the seventh, 8th, and 9th round of hitting pads. I don't fade off as much where I can't remember the combinations. You know how you get so tired, you're like, okay, what is it again? Double jab, right hand, left hook, right kick, step knee.

Got it. And then you're into the left hook, and you're like, what the fuck is next? Because you're so tired. Your brain doesn't work that good. So I think mental fatigue can contribute to physical fatigue. 100%. That's in the, that's in Sasson's book also. They talk about how ketones are pretty much the steady fuel. So your brain doesn't bonk because there's an unlimited stream of energy coming in at all times. You don't hit the window where you run out of

glycogen and your brain as the master regulator says, wait a wait a minute, no, no, no, no, we have a very low supply here. It's finite. Nothing else is coming in. So we're going to downregulate everything and make you perform like shit right now in an effort to hold on to what we have. You know, you don't ever hit that wall with the ketones present in the blood. Well, I've never been in a ketogenic state, I don't think. I don't. i don't you

ever fasted for anything yeah maybe maybe like 12 hours i've never done like several days no i mean even like fasting is just deciding i don't feel like eating right now you know i've never like consciously decided to fast it's pretty cool yeah this is an interesting experiment because um i just said well you know there's nothing to lose here. There's nothing that's going to fuck me up. I'm just going to give this a shot and see what happens. I was a little flat yesterday, like trying to push through elliptical workout. I was a little flat, but nothing huge.

Just required a little more grit, you know, just required me to dig down what I would rather just get off that fucking thing. And around the 35 minute mark, like the last 10 minutes were pretty rough. But other than that, my brain doesn't seem too foggy. That was one of the things I was concerned with, that I'd go on stage and I'd just be stupid. Like my brain wouldn't work that good. I'd forget what I was talking about. Well, do you do you blend? I mean, do you do bulletproof style where you blend butter and

mctl this is okay yeah this is uh so you probably have at least some help i want to check you out actually i brought in what's gonna check you out bro what are you doing bro i know i told you about this briefly here yes you did what is it if you're not if you're not checking you're guessing so one of the things about these ketogenic diets is you've got to act like you're diabetic. You get a blood ketone monitor. What do you do? These strips are. You prick my finger or something? Yeah, I'll give you a fresh one here so you don't lose my.

Ew, can I get AIDS from you? Maybe. From a strip? Jenny high five. All right, so what he's got here is some little thing that you little pricker. So what is it, like a needle or something? Thank you, Joe, my little prick. Does it matter which finger you use?

It's a lancet, I think is what they call it. It doesn't matter, no. So what we have here is a blood ketone strip. Oh, yeah, you're nice and hot Whoa what? You want there to be Warmth in your hands Did that work?

Otherwise it's a motherfucker Did that make blood? I didn't even feel that That's so weird I didn't feel it bro So tough I am bro A little blood I didn't fucking feel it

Well you're gonna have to feel another one here God damn it I'm gonna feel this one now I was talking shit. So what he's got is this little punch thing, almost like a little stapler. Rookie move. That one I didn't feel at all. Like the other one, I felt it touch my finger.

That one didn't work. That's why. Let me give you a brand new one here. What the fuck kind of book? Yo, my skin's too thick, bro. I got double skin thick. It's not, you know, all those years of hard training and a makiwara board. I do a lot of makiwara work.

You know what makiwara is, folks, if you don't know? Karate guys, they take a board, and it's like sort of nailed to the ground or dug into the ground and sort of locked in place and the board will give a little bit and they wrap the board up with a rope so it's really hard and then they punch it and develop these calluses thick calluses on their knuckles and then they would go from that to brickwork my friend john lee back in boston he used to have his index finger and his fuck you finger, the knuckles to those fingers were fused. It was one big fat rhino knuckle.

And it was all just from him punching shit. One big moose knuckle. Yeah. It was all from him punching shit. That is the last guy you wanted punching you. He was punching through bricks and shit. Yo, your pussy little needle things are not working on my fucking savage

skin. Is it working this time? God damn it. Well, you got some bitch-ass needles. You need to get some manly needles, bro. I have to figure this out. Sorry. So does it work different on different people? Is that what's going on? For real?

Like, no bullshit. Do people have thicker skin? Well, we can go deeper, but I'm trying not to be a dick and put it on the highest setting and punch this thing to your finger. Put it on the highest setting. I'm going to flex while you do it. It's actually the stress of you holding onto my hand and shoving that thing over and over again with no pain. I'm like, eventually I'm going to feel pain.

So it's like, if I just felt pain the first time, it would be very minimal. What do you got now? You got a razor blade? What's in there? I'm putting in a new test strip just to double check here. And explain to me what this thing is testing for. There's a little blood on my fingers. Yeah, we want more.

Did you feel that? Barely. Damn. Go deep, son. Don't be scared. I do have double thick rhino skin, Jamie. I'm just going to fucking jab it in there. Whoa, hey.

I don't like that phrasing. This is not working, huh? God damn, son. I'm going to allow you to just fucking tap this thing. Okay. What do you do? I want you to just tap it. Well, what is it?

It's a fucking little needle. All right, I'm just going to shove it in there. There you go. Shove it in there. Pull it out. Now make yourself bleed a bit. Give me a drop. Put it on this bad boy.

Is that good? It could be. Man. I shoved that all the way in. Yeah, I want you to. You did? Oh, there we go. That's what I want.

Okay. Don't worry, folks. Okay, now we got some sweet blood. Now we got a countdown here. Ten seconds. It's going to tell us your blood ketones. So basically, you want to be between 0.5... Oh.

What does it say? Low. Low? What does that mean? Low battery? Low battery or low ketones? Low ketones. Me?

Yeah. Really? That doesn't make sense. Let's do another strip. I'm bleeding. I know. We got you. I got some good blood here. Another strip. Let's do another strip. I'm bleeding. I know. We got you. I got some good blood here.

Another strip. Keep the bloodline open. Now squeeze this, bitch. Some fucking junk science. Here we go. Is this bro science, bro? Bro science, bro. This is bro science, bro.

All right. One more test here. Okay. Okay. Three, two, one. 0.1. What is that? Pathetic. That's terrible? You want to be between 0.5 and about 3.0. And you can go higher than that if you're like in a really extended fast. Okay. Or if you take exogenous ketones right then you go above 3.0 but basically 0.5 you're in nutritional ketosis give it one more test just to be sure that this guy isn't bullshit cuz I'm not sure not believe

your fucking stupid machine if it varies that's a problem right if you do it again and you get a oh yeah yeah that would be a problem, right? If you do it again and you get a different reading? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would be a problem. I don't know that I'm going to get it. Why is that? What about all that blood? You might have to stab. Well, because it's got to come in a little dry. Should I stab it again?

What's the negative of being where he's at at point one? You want me to stab it again? Well, he's in no man's land. So he doesn't have carbohydrates coming in, right, to fuel his body. And he's not producing ketones. So did you work out beforehand? Yeah. That's why.

Oh. That just fucking saw. I should have asked beforehand. Yeah. So whatever ketones you have from the MCTs,. That's why. Oh. Is that just fucking saw? I should have asked beforehand. Yeah. So whatever ketones you have from the MCTs, your body's using. Oh. That's why your blood ketones aren't high. I worked out right before I got here. That's exactly, yeah.

It's going to confirm it here, but that's exactly why. So I've tested. I've been in ketosis for a while and tested and seen like 0.3, and I'm like, what the fuck? And then I listened to Dominic D'Agostino talk about that. Your body will use the ketones. That's why you're producing it. It's an energy source. Right.

So you work out. That's going to go to fill your body the way that blood glucose would have prior to that. What does it say? E4. It means it's cold. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What's that machine?

I don't know. It's too cold, I guess. It's too cold? What do you mean? The machine is cold? The machine is cold. So what do you do? Do you heat it up, put it in the microwave?

I stick it in my armpit when I'm getting ready. The machine? Yeah, just right here. Boom. Okay. Makes it warmer. But I just pricked myself for nothing? You did prick yourself for nothing. what are all these things that you're

sticking in there what are all those things these are all the the this is your trash actually that's your little I don't know where you've been basket that's those are the Lancet's that poked you and then the test strips but anyways you would do this at night before usually before dinner. You're going to have the highest ketones then. If you have a night workout, do it at least a couple hours. Do it yourself right now so I can see what you get. I'm out. You're out of ketones?

I put the last trip to you. Oh, sorry. No, it's all good. I got more at the house. So you carry these around and you just do it once a day? Or how many times a day do you do it? They're a few bucks a piece, so I usually just do them at night when the ketones are highest just to make sure that I'm nutritionally there MCT oil is usually worn off by

that point so I can tell like am I producing my own ketones as opposed to just getting it artificially raised from the MCTs mm-hmm oh I see okay I know it doesn't need to be 3.0 if it it's 0.5, I'm good. But I will feel the difference when I reach the 1.0 between 1.0 and 2.0. 1.0 and 2.0. What was I? 0.1? 0.1, yeah.

That's dog shit. But it doesn't mean anything because you just worked out. I'm depressed. Okay. So what I'm shooting for, though, is... 0.5 or higher, 0.5 or higher, but you've gotten to one or two. I've been above 3.0 from fasting or from exogenous ketones. But if I'm on a daily basis between 1.0 and 2.0, then I'm doing good. And that means the foods I'm putting in my body, I haven't, you know, exceeded my protein limits and

caused gluconeogenesis or any of these things. Like I've dialed in my nutrition over time and that's what it is. It's just fine tuning. Right. Like women can process much more carbohydrates than we can on a ketogenic diet. Really? Way more. Yeah.

Way more. I don't know if it's because of the hormones and the menstrual cycle or. Because they're evil. I have no idea, but they can get away with way more. Could be evil. Just some voodoo. That's interesting. I wonder what that is. I wonder if it's because they have to maintain a higher body fat

to make milk and to... It's possible. ...feed the baby and grow titties. Yeah, Tosh was in ketosis the whole time during the pregnancy, and she still had plenty of carbohydrates that's interesting so it was a conscious decision to reach that state

during the pregnancy none at all she asked me like oh hey see where I'm at I'm like I'm going to waste $3 on you right now you're at 0.0 I just told you what you're at she's like no seriously I want to see I feel good

so we did it and she was higher than I was You're at 0.0. I just told you what you're at. Right. She's like, no, seriously, I want to see. Like, I feel good, you know? Right. I was like, okay. So we did it, and she was higher than I was. Whoa. I was like, what the fuck? But it makes perfect sense. I mean, if you're sending resources to build a human.

Right. Of course. And you want that steady flow. It makes sense the body would produce that in a situation like that, just in case you ran out of carbohydrates. It is interesting because women oftentimes when they're pregnant, they crave really fatty foods, like they crave ice cream and things along those lines. But that's not ketogenic, right, because it has a lot of sugar in it.

Well, there's sugar in that, yeah. I mean, cravings are cravings, but if there's a calling to have more fat, you want more fat. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to put you in ketosis. Right, right. Now, say if you're in this ketogenic state and you eat some carbohydrates, you eat like a big bowl of pasta, how much does it whack you out of that ketogenic state? Three to four days is typically what it would take to get back in.

Whoa! But if you've been, put it this way, I mean, because I've been in and out of it for as long as I have and because I work out the way you work out you know high intensity stuff with kettlebells or I'll go for a distance run whatever and then still train on the mat that's high intensity when you're grappling um I had a Saturday we went off the deep end I had a like two gluten-free pizzas with Tosh and we had a bunch of gluten-free cookies and a freaking liter of uh this awesome grass-fed milk loaded with carbs. I mean, I probably had 500 grams of carbohydrates.

Grass-fed milk is loaded with carbs? Milk, for sure. Milk is loaded with carbs. Period. It doesn't matter if it's grass-fed. It matters if it's grass-fed or grain-fed, but not from a carbohydrate standpoint. Nobody would think that milk would be a source of carbohydrates. Nine to 12 grams per cup.

So if you have a liter and you have four cups which is easy to do and you're eating cookies yeah you just had 50 grams of carbs just from the milk whoa how many grams of carbs you supposed to have a day you know in a ketogenic diet between 30 and 50 during the keto adaptation phase which is six to eight weeks and then after that you can play but that's the whole reason you check because if you're doing 50 grams a day thinking, Hey, I'm within my limit and you're still at 0.3, 0.4 and fuck what somebody else tells you. That's when it's time to dial it down a bit. Or maybe my, my, my carbohydrates are fine, but I'm still not in ketosis. That means

you're eating too much protein, or maybe I need to add more fat to my meals. So the ratio is there. When they talked about it at John Hopkins, they were talking about for the kids with epilepsy, a four to one ratio of fat to protein and carbohydrates combined. Now that's pretty hard to do. If you think of how many, you eat a steak, there's 50 grams of protein

and there's equal amount of fat, let's say. Now I have to multiply that by four. And if there's any carbohydrates to add to that, then I add that to the total for the four to one ratio. So you're going to have just ridiculous amounts of fat to accomplish that. What is that device called that you just used? It's a blood ketone meter. I use the Novamax one as the cheapest. There's a couple other ones that are five or $6 a strip. You get that on amazon the meter itself is only like 20 bucks and then the strips are a little bit more and so the strips you have to use blood

is there another way to do it there is a piss test which doesn't work at all um the problem with that is once your body becomes keto adapted it learns how to better use these things so they're not excreted in the urine so when it tests for acetone, I think it's acetoacetate, something like that. It's one of the less prominent ketones to begin with. So when we convert fat into ketones, we have three major ketone bodies. Beta-hydroxybutyrate is the one that you test for with the blood strip. That's the most 80% most abundant in the blood. If you do the urine strip and your body's becoming keto adapted, well, you're not going

to piss any more out. So you could be completely in nutritional ketosis and use a strip and be like, hey man, I'm not in ketosis. What's going on? And it's not that at all. It's just that your body's not wasting any out of the urine anymore. And they have breath strips or breath, this breath meter you can blow into. And I can't stand the thing.

I used it for a while. I tried to get into it because it's, obviously you can reuse it a hundred thousand times and it's still going to be the same cost. But it shows like on a gliding scale, like an LED light. So green is not in ketosis. Red is in ketosis, whatever.

And then in between you have like green, yellow and yellow, orange. And it's all, it's so fucking hard to read. And then you're trying to figure out, well, I feel that, you know, it's no, no, no, no, no, no. Just do the blood. Get, tell me to the tent exactly where I'm at. And then you get to all the guesswork out.

And what exactly is it measuring? Like when you say blood ketones, what does the number represent? Like 0.1? The millimolar is a measurement of the beta hydroxybutyrate ketone. What does the number represent? Like 0.1? That is the millimolar is a measurement of the beta-hydroxybutyrate ketone. Millimolar. Millimolar. Wow. And so you've been doing this for a while. Yeah. I've read a ton of books on it. And the thing is, most diets, people, I've tried a ton of different diets. This one, you feel good because you can eat as much as you want. Like when Dave Asprey talks about eating 4,500 calories a day

and working out, whatever he said, 15 minutes a fucking month or whatever, some nonsense, yeah. You are going to lose weight. A better example, in The 4-Hour Body, Tim Ferriss talks about the study they did on calories in, calories out. I love this study. Three groups of people had 2,000 calories a day. Group A, 90% carbs. Group B, 90 a day. Group A, 90% carbs.

Group B, 90% protein. Group C, 90% fat. You know how it shaked out? Carbohydrate group gained one and a half pounds a day. Protein group lost a quarter pound a day. Fat group lost a pound a day. 90% fat in their diet and they lost a pound a day. A pound a day?

On the same 2,000 calories. Think about that. 2,000 calories is not a lot. So if you had 2,000 calories of carbohydrates and you're going to gain weight from that, you can gain weight from 2,000 calories a day? Yeah. That's incredible. So there's other factors and things like that, but that just dispels this concept of count calories.

They're all the same. They're not the same. They're not the same at all. How they impact they're all the same. They're not the same. They're not the same at all. How they impact hormones is not the same. Hormonal function, insulin response. What does insulin do? Well, it stores. It shuttles things, right?

So if we are constantly inundating ourselves with carbohydrates and in this store mode, any excess is getting put on. Right. How do you tell your body to burn fat, which takes a longer, harder process, when you have this easy, super rapid thing it can break down and then use glycolytically? It doesn't make sense. But when you talk to the Instagram wizards, these dieticians in training, they'll tell you, bro, you need fucking carbohydrates to operate your brain, bro. Yeah, all the science.

I love this, too. You talk about science, all the science. I love this, too. You talk about science, and Eddie Bravo would probably like this, too. Mr. Conspiracy Theory guy. I love him. Who pays for that fucking carbohydrate research? Right. Gatorade. Gatorade Sports Science Institute.

Gatorade Sports Science Institute has done a majority of these studies. Tollhouse cookies? Yeah. Gatorade? Nestle. No, it's Gatorade. It's Gatorade that's doing a lot of these studies. Tollhouse cookies? Yeah. Gatorade? Nestle. No, it's Gatorade. It's Gatorade that's doing a lot of the studies on carbohydrate performance. They're the guys that also proved, oh, this is the tipping point for fat oxidation in an hour,

even though they use people that have been in ketosis for two weeks instead of two years. So when you talk about guys like Jeff Finney and Steve Volo, who've been doing this research now since the 80s and using athletes that have been keto adapted for a while that's when you really begin to see like oh shit okay this can work and not just from a physical standpoint like I said the thing that I get mostly from it is the mental it's the it's the sharpness and uh Dominic D'Agostino is talking about how you can go on way less sleep but there's some type of thing that ketones do with the brain where you actually are more rested even if you had if you were sleep deprived so if you had five or six hours of sleep you can still wake up

feeling refreshed and have your sharpness in the morning rather than being on a heavy carbohydrate intensive diet exactly so they're not sure the mechanism for that yet that's one that's why they got these these geniuses studying these things. But I think that there's nothing more important than when you try something and you actually feel the difference. And that's not me saying, oh, you know, if you're vegan, whatever. If you're vegan and you feel awesome, fucking awesome, dude. I'm not going to tell you to change.

I'm not going to say, oh, you should add this to it. No, dude, you've dialed it in. Everyone's different. But this, for me, has worked wonders. Well, there's also awesome and then there's better than awesome. Some people say like, hey, I've been on this kind of diet and I feel fantastic, so I'm just going to keep it the way it is. Well, meanwhile, if you added a certain thing to your diet or added a little bit more vitamin D or added a little bit more, you might feel actually better. Your idea of what awesome is.

I think a lot of times it's like, if you ever have water in your ear and you think everything's okay, like, oh, this is how I hear. And then, you know, like pop, it pops and you go, oh, I could hear like this. Like you weren't even considering that you were hearing like shit. That's what cracks me up about when people talk and by no means am I some type of psychedelic pusher or anything like that. But, you know, when I first did ayahuasca, I was, it consumed my mind. Holy shit. I want to stand on a mountaintop and tell people about this. I want every one of my friends to know about it. My

family, I want them to try this. I want them to see what I've seen. Like I want them to experience this. And then over time you realize like, Oh, you listen to people talk like, man, I really, you know what? Like life's just so good right now I don't really need to change anything like are you a fucking finished product you can't improve your life are you mr. perfect I'm mr. Manhattan I'm dr. Manhattan yeah like there's no there's no room for getting better there's no room for for enjoying life more improving whatever you know and that was just funny to me, that dynamic. There are a lot of people that just say to themselves,

I'm comfortable. Why change? Yeah, well, people don't like feeling like shit, and they don't like feeling like their house is in disarray. And so if they get to a state where they go, I'm happy right now. Everything's good. I'm happy right now.

I'm happy being chubby. I've heard that before. There's nothing wrong with being ch go, I'm happy right now. Everything's good. I'm happy right now. Like, uh, I'm happy being chubby. Like I've heard that before. There's nothing wrong with being chubby. I'm happy. I'm happy right now with the way I am. You know, some people will convince themselves all, I mean, I oftentimes read things that people write and I go, God damn it. I wonder if this person is expressing themselves honestly, or if they're trying to get other people to be convinced that they're okay you know how i would lean towards that yeah how happy are like i've brought this article up more than once but i read this article written by this woman who's 70 years old struggled with weight her whole life and she was promoting fat acceptance and that people are prejudiced

towards people that are overweight but But in fact, she's incredibly healthy and she's so active and she does all these things. She's just always, always been heavy. And I'm like, see, scientifically, that doesn't make any sense. It just doesn't. Like if you're, if you're eating healthy foods and your body's healthy, you shouldn't be storing that much extra fat. It just doesn't make any sense. But she's promoting it in this article. Like if you didn't know any better and just took this article, it's like, well, this is this one woman's account of her life. And by her accounts, she's incredibly healthy.

She's hiking and she's so active and she's eating healthy, but she's just fat. Not really makes sense, doesn't it? No. Something's missing there. Yeah. What is it? really make sense doesn't know something's missing there yeah what is it well I mean I actually had this as one of my first first breakthroughs in my very first ceremony I was I was hearing people violently puke around me and I

thought I was like in a war zone and this is just starting to kick in inside me I've taken my second cup of ayahuasca. And it sounds like people are dying. And I realized, oh, they're puking. And then I thought, oh, that's because these fuckers didn't do the dieta. They didn't eat clean. Like you have to eat a certain way prior to it. And I thought, oh, I eat clean.

I take care of myself. These people don't take care of themselves. And it kind of snowballed into this feeling that i had about fat people in general like they didn't you're not taking care of yourself what are you doing why would you do that to yourself why would you do it to your body you know like i've always been thin and athletic and it was easy for me to do these things so when i'm when i'm feeling this and i just started to notice like holy why do i feel this way why would damn this is getting worse and worse and then I jumped up and grabbed the bucket and puked my brains out. Like I'd never puked before. And it came out of me, this feeling, this animosity

towards people. And I understood right then, like they don't know any better. I don't know how they got there, but I do know that they don't know any better. They don't know how they got there, but I do know that they don't know any better. They don't know how to get out of that. Even if they do know intellectually, they haven't internalized it. It hasn't been digested. Yeah. Right. There's plenty of things that you can take at face value. You hear and it resonates with you and you're like, Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. Right. But you don't assimilate it. You don't put it into action. And I think for that, I don't know, maybe every time their mom and dad fought, they took them to get ice cream cones at McDonald's. Oh, it's OK.

You know, come on. We'll go for a car ride. It'll be fine. Here's an ice cream cone. And then now anytime they're under stress, fuck, I need ice cream. And they don't even think about it. Or maybe they do know and they still say, I don't care. I know this ice cream cone is going to make me feel better.

Whatever it is, I don't know. That's not my place to be like hey you fat you you know like that helped me grow from that and that was a huge that was like how could puking be good that puking is amazing when you're getting rid of something like that right like you're letting go of a thought that you had like this attachment that you had yeah there i mean there's a certain holier-than-thou attitude that certain people with great metabolisms and active lifestyles will have towards people that maybe they just, when they grew up, they weren't led towards athletics. Maybe they were bullied.

Maybe they had poor diets in the home and they didn't know any better. And now here they find themselves X amount of years later a product to a whole series of things. Yeah, think of the impact it would have. You always get picked last for kickball or handball or any of that stupid, those dumb playground games. You're always picked last. You don't want to play them anymore. Right. You're not interested in that.

Yeah. You associate them with bad feelings. Yeah. I was having a conversation about this with a friend of mine um she was talking about um like how uh there's like women that are like angry feminists that get that that like truly don't like men they hate men and they don't like masculinity she was trying to figure out what that's all about and i was like well the parallels got to be there's certain men that I know that don't like women they hate women and one of the reasons why is

because they've been rejected by women their whole life so they associate women with a negative feeling they associate women with rejection they associate women with the women like it's cold-hearted leaves them goes with another guy do that to me that bitch yeah well it's she doesn't owe you she's not attracted to you like you've got for whatever reason the universe dealt you an extremely shitty deck of cards and that's just the way it is but so forever this person that i know that that has this issue his association with women is of women they they use him they want things from him his money they don't

want him and they treat him badly and he feels like shit and hateful whereas i have friends that are good-looking guys that for no there's no reason they were just born good-looking they just got great bone structure and you know they happen to look good and women are attracted to them and their ideas of women are totally to look good and women are attracted to them and their ideas of women are totally different their ideas of women are hey chicks are fun they're great don't get tied down though bro you know keep keep it open move free you know like their ideas of women are much more light and like women are they're they're a gift they're a great thing in life they're not this evil so this like this association can often be correlated by

What kind of a relationship do you have with the opposite sex? Like if you're a woman and you're overweight and you're you know, you've always been fat your whole life has been like a series of drunken moments with men who felt sick after they were with you and you were Rejected and any man that you were attracted to had wanted felt sick after they were with you and you were rejected and any man that you were attracted to had wanted to have nothing to do with you so your feelings about men are just this oh they're angry these assholes these bros these douchebags not taking consideration like well what what is this relationship you have with him and what's the root cause of it some of it is outside of your if if it's just genetics, completely outside of your control.

There's nothing you can do about the way your face looks or how tall you are or how short you are or how big your feet are. You know, there's nothing you can do about that. But the relationship between how what you look and how physically attractive you are sexually, like people's desire to reproduce with you. It really comes down to that in a lot of ways. women and women that are overweight and not attractive and you find you know all sorts of different people in between there but there's an overwhelming number of people that have not had good success with the opposite sex both from women hating men and from men hating women and And it's extremely unfortunate. If you look at it that way, it's extremely unfortunate. Taking out gender inequality, financial issues,

all sorts of issues that also come with being a male men's rights advocate or a woman's rights advocate, a feminist, there's an overall attitude that people have an issue with when it comes to someone who identifies with one gender or another gender and despises the other gender. Oftentimes it's because their associations and relationships with that gender have been negative due to the fact that they're not desired. Yeah. Well, it's really, it comes down to them. It's what are, you know, what are you doing for yourself? What is your relationship with that part with the opposite sex? Certainly has to do with that. But What is your relationship with the opposite sex?

Certainly has to do with that. But what is your relationship in life? Do you have this assumption that all dudes are dicks and they all behave the same way? And that it's kind of your mindset can keep you stuck in that hole just the same. If you're always thinking like this is exactly how they are, this is exactly how it's going to reciprocate itself over and over and over again. So you're always correct. Yeah, there's that. But then there's also the reality like my friend who doesn't like – well, he's not my friend anymore, but who doesn't like women.

He's an ugly dude. He's always going to be an ugly dude. Does he like porn? Does he like – what do you mean? Does he like – he's not like women? No, he gets angry. He gets angry. He never has like he like? He's not like women. No, he gets angry. He gets angry. He's like, he never has like a girlfriend.

He's never been married. He's just like, oh, he's like dating. That sounds to me like a guy who needs to work on himself. Oh, he definitely does. But it's also like the girls that he likes, they never really were into him. Just not attractive. He's got a shit roll of the dice. Yeah.

His roll of the dice sucks. I don't know where I'm going with this. But what I'm trying to say is, I'm not trying to say anything, but if I was trying to say anything, I would try to say, like, there's a lot of complex issues that are going on with how people feel both about themselves and how they feel about other people. And oftentimes what they blame other people for is really some shit that's going on with them.

Like they find enemies out there, external enemies to distract themselves from their internal problems and failures and shortcomings. Big time. Like you find that a lot with haters. I'm sure you found that when you've read like horrible shit that people write about you online, like after fights. Dude, I mean, look, the kind of hate that is available to fighters is some of the most fucking vicious and personal and emotional hate. The people that go after them, like quote unquote fans.

Yeah. Every one of them is a loser. Every one of them. Every one of them's a loser. Every one of them. Every one of them. Every fucking evil, nasty douchebag that seeks you out to say mean shit to you after a loss and tweets at you. I mean, I've seen some horrific shit that guys write to fighters directly after a loss, both on Facebook and on Instagram, Twitter, everything.

Those people are all unsuccessful. They're all failures, all of them. That's the only reason why they would do that. It's one thing to say, man, that fucking guy, he got killed, or man, that guy got tapped quick, or how good is this guy? Man, I can't believe he ran through that guy like this. Those are like almost analytical discussions that you have with people where things happen and you didn't see it coming. Like, okay, Ryan Bader versus Rumble

Johnson, like that fight. Without saying anything horrible about Ryan Bader, you'd go, fuck, man, Rumble Johnson, Jesus Christ. You just ran him over, man. Fuck, who can take that guy's shots? And that's a non-asshole-ish way of approaching it but good lord i read some shit online that people tweeted to him to baiter and like you fucking you should be in a jail somewhere you're a monster like you're you're looking at this guy like here's a downed wounded thing and i'm gonna just piss on him i'm gonna find a spot a soft spot and i'm gonna jab him with sticks i'm gonna see if i could fuck with his head you know and anybody who does that those people that are doing that those haters They're all losers. It's the saddest thing about it. It's like they're they're looking at this one

person this one thing this this object that they can attack and they're Externalizing all the issues they have with themselves, the imbalances they have, and this new ability that we have to reach people and communicate with people that really don't want to have anything to do with you. In the real world, Ryan Bader doesn't give a fuck about this guy's opinion. He doesn't know him.

And in the real world, nobody's saying shit to his face. He's like, oh, my God, I think that's Ryan Bader. And they run up to him and just blow him right there. Like, oh, you're so fucking awesome. You know? Yeah, same exact guy. Same exact guy. Like, oh, you're so fucking awesome. You know? Yeah, same exact guy. Same exact guy. Boy, there's some hateful people out there, man.

I know so many fighters that just don't go on social media now because of it. You know? You think fighters are tough. They should fucking toughen up. Like, maybe you're just a cunt. Maybe it's not fighters are tough, and they should just toughen up. Maybe it's like what you're doing, you're being shitty to someone you don't even know.

Again, where am I going with this? I don't know. I completely agree. Even when we, I forget who it was, Greenflower Media did a thing on me talking about cannabis and CBD and how many guys in the sport use and just not naming names and Jose Consecu-ing it,

but talking about, yeah, a lot of a smoke pot. It helps us sleep at night. It helps turn off our brain when we're overthinking shit, and you got something big coming up. More than, obviously, now with USADA and things like that, there's a lot less. But back in the day, yeah, there was a lot of us. But even with USADA, out the competition you you can smoke pot and In competition like you can smoke pot up until like the week of the fight and this is good news for me to tell to

Tell people yeah, but yeah, we did that video and then sure enough I guess I didn't know it was gonna get decent not that it went big but BJ Penn comm ran it and it made it bigger than it was. And of course, at the bottom of the video, everyone's comments, I got like two or three comments like, oh no, this is an MMA site. Oh no. It didn't help him when Jimmy Manilow smashed his face in, did it? He wasn't smoked to that. It was like, oh God, how does this have anything to do with what we're talking about here?

It's nothing to do with anything. But it's funny. It's like, allow me to knock you down here a couple pegs while we're talking. Well, there's also people that don't recognize what they're doing, and they're just talking.

They're just making noises, and they're not even evil. They just don't realize what they're saying is hurtful or stupid or idiotic, they've been given this access to people that's unprecedented there's no training for this like no no one had anything like social media in our parents days it just didn't exist so they never taught us about it that's a weird thing thinking about having kids like i look at bear now and I'm like, fuck, dude. We grew up when you had wired telephones. And then we saw giant Zack Morris cell phones come into play.

And we had the car phone and things like that. And then just this evolution over time. They're born. They're not knowing a world without internet, without instant access. Our grandparents, the same thing. They were like, I remember when you had to take a boat to get here from Europe. And then we grew up in a much more technologically advanced era, but our kids are going to grow up in an era that's mind-blowing to us, but their kids are going to grow up in an era of virtual reality

that makes this look like a joke. It makes our video games look stupid. Yeah, my dad's always bragging about how awesome Mafia 3 was. Listen, you know, I just tap this. You had to sit in front of a box like I'm in the fucking Star Trek room surrounded by killers right now. Yeah, we're probably going to go to places just like those old Schwarzenegger movies or any of those movies.

You're going to probably go to a place. You're going to lie down. They're going to clamp some shit down on the side of your head, and you go, are you ready, Mr. Kingsbury? Give me the thumbs up if you're ready to launch. And you give the thumbs up, and you're in the Avatar world, and you're riding a fucking dragon. You know what I mean?

That's going to happen inside of the next 100 years. It's 100% going to happen. It's just a matter of time. If they keep going, we don't blow ourselves up, we don't get hit by an asteroid, they're gonna come up with artificial reality that's indistinguishable from this reality. And all of our entertainment is gonna be a joke. Why would you actually jump out of a plane and go skydiving when you can get the skydiving

experience with this thing on your head that's gonna make you feel like you did? That was that movie, uh... Total Recall? Strange Days. Oh yeah, that's gonna make you feel like you did that was that movie total recall strange days oh yeah that's right right you could video and they had like snuff videos or a guy would actually kill somebody and you felt what he felt when he killed another person like you felt all the neurotransmitters everything was going through your brain that heart racing feeling of actually ending someone's life and you, that was the illegal portion of it. And they had the legal portion would be like sex with your loved one or whatever,

those kinds of things. But you could actually tap into the consciousness of someone's memory as long as that was recorded. I think that's going to happen. I think it's definitely going to happen. It's just a matter of time. If they keep going, it's a matter of one invention and one discovery makes way for another invention and another discovery that compound on each other, they build on each other. And next thing you know, reality is unrecognizable. Like the reality that we experience today, you know, we're talking about these primitive diets, primal existence, and you know, how our bodies, the idea behind all of this is obviously that our bodies, it takes thousands of years. They say about 10,000 years for your genes to totally change and adapt to new diet, new environment, new lifestyle.

And so we're dealing with bodies that are primarily adjusted to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. really adjusted to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle. And all this other stuff that we've added into it over the last 10, 20,000 years or whatever, agriculture, grains, growing different foods. You keep them in storage bins and things like that, like grain silos. That's all fairly recent. And, you know, yes, you can live like that for sure. Yeah, grains are fun.

Yeah, you can eat it. But what is your body optimized for? What does your body exist with the least amount of hiccups? Well, it's probably the stuff that's super clean and normal, like fish, vegetables, chicken, meat, things along those lines. Your body knows exactly. And the stuff that we haven't fucked with. Not farm-raised this and that. No farm-raised fish.

Eating genetically modified this and that. No farm-raised fish. Yeah. Eating genetically modified soybeans and whatever. What's the most realist food we can put in our body? Well, you probably go camping and shit too, right? Hell yeah. Yeah. You know that feeling that you get when you're out in the woods, when you don't have any cell phone signal?

With a gang of mushrooms. That too. Well, that's extreme. But just even being alone, like you hear the nothing. You hear nothing. You hear the real nothing. The real nothing of the woods. It's almost like scary because you realize like this forest doesn't give a fuck about me.

If a tree falls in your head and you die right there, the forest doesn't skip a beat. The squirrels and the chipmunks keep running around. The birds keep flying. The deer keep running. It's all the same. It literally does not matter. It's been like this before you. It will be like this unless we fuck it up.

It'll be like this after you. This is just the way. Even if we fuck it up, it'll go back to that at some point. Or something different. It'll become something different, some new form of nature but you go from that to like cities and cities are this bizarre strange different kind of life like i was in manhattan last weekend it's fucking awesome it's awesome to visit you go there you're like you're going from one place to another and this restaurant that building and look at this view and holy

shit and get on the subway and you're fucking cruising along under the buildings and it's awesome. But it's awesome in a completely different way. It's awesome in this new way, this new bizarre way that we're sort of adapting to, you know, and this new way is available to us and wasn't available to people 10,000 years ago. This is like a mind blower. If you took someone from 10,000 years ago and brought them to Manhattan and just put them in like the 72nd floor of one of those apartment buildings with a crazy view and just look out, look out at the city and be like, what in the fuck am I seeing? You know?

Like you've been to Vegas. You ever been like the top of the Mandalay Bay? That bar that's up there that has the crazy view and the glass floor? Oh, yeah. Fuck! You just look out at the top of that building and you're like, God, this is insane. This is like some Blade Runner shit. Yeah.

We're experiencing something that no culture's ever experienced. We're experiencing something that no generation's ever experienced. We're experiencing something that no generation has ever experienced. It's the technological heights that we're living in. And this ain't shit compared to what our kids are going to experience. Well, hopefully there are intelligent people like Marc Sasson and other guys that continue to push the envelope to reconnect. There is a reason that we feel amazing at the beach. Not everyone has access to the beach. But there is a reason we feel amazing at the beach. And scientifically, they're showing now with negative ions and the energy of the earth, like it has an impact on how we feel.

The beach does. The ocean does, for sure. The wind coming off the ocean does. So even if you were on a boat over the water, you're going to feel better just from doing that. What does it do? Like what specifically does it do to you? From what I read and I understand there are an abundance of negative ions. So from an electrical standpoint, you're talking again about the human energy field and auras and woo woo shit. Chakras. Chakras, bro. Feel my chakra. You're just going to feel more alive.

Like every part of you. I can't describe like from a feeling standpoint, everyone has their experiences at the ocean. But from an electrical standpoint, you would say like you're clearing out blockages from your chi from a Chinese medicine standpoint. From a kundalini and yoga standpoint, you're going to clear out blockages the same way. Well, what are those blockages is it is there really a blockage or are you just experiencing energy from the ocean and it feels good maybe both maybe there is no blockage but i'm willing to bet from somebody who sits too long or has stress you know and different things like that like they're very much can be a physical attachment to emotion and if you've ever had like body work done and somebody, you have a, you know, somebody's working through a knot and you all of a sudden start thinking of this thing that's been bothering you in your head, relationship, whatever.

There is physical attachments to mental and emotional things that go on in your head. So when you get a massage and like the you have like a knot and they work through it you think there's like emotions tied up in that knot not always but sometimes really yeah for sure how does that work i don't know how it works i don't know why i don't know why it would manifest there i don't know why we have an electrical field we do i don't believe that there's emotions tied up in knots in your body i think when you get rid of those knots it relaxes you and that helps you deal with emotions better okay maybe i went down the wrong path there does that make sense yes i agree with that from a feel-good standpoint

feeling better at the ocean might just be the view but from an electrical standpoint there are and this goes back to the studies done at UCLA, there very much is an electrical standpoint that changes from the ionic energy coming from the waves, coming from the water, coming from the wind that's above the water. Right. Because like yoga talk, they'll say shit to you like, this hip opener is going to make you feel better about your childhood. It's going to open up emotional blockages. And you're like, I'm pretty sure we're just stretching yeah well that's that's talking about root chakra and exactly how

the different chakras work what they correlate to and things like that i don't know necessarily look in a visionary state i can see energy i don't see colors i don't see like oh here's my heart chakra or anything like that but i have seen trees communicate to one another. Really? Like vibrations coming from the tree tops as they were talking to one another. What does it look like? Like ripples in water. Wow.

But it's the air that's rippling. And you could see like perfect circles coming from the tops of the tree tops. There was something I tweeted the other day. They found that Venus fly traps do calculations. They count. Like from some study. They figured out some method of measuring the fact that they actually count things. They're doing calculations.

The idea that they're not smart. There is an intelligence in plants. That's where I laugh at the argument from vegans on from a consciousness standpoint. Whatever spark we have, call it soul, call it whatever, plants have it. Whatever animates us and gives us us, it's in them too. Yeah. For sure. It is it's they don't they can't communicate in a way that we can clearly Understand they don't bark at us. They don't look at us with sad puppy-dog eyes But there's something alive in them some strange way that they communicate and that they absorb energy and life and that You get that from them. I mean life eats life,. But that said, I know many people that have had

visionary experiences and became vegan afterwards. Yeah, that's actually really common, especially in people that do multiple ayahuasca ceremonies. And I had a vision, my only vision I've ever had of bears, I had a vision of seeing a panda bear eat bamboo. And then I saw a black bear eating berries. And I was like, oh, fuck. Am I going to be vegan? And then I saw a grizzly snatching salmon out. And I was like, oh.

And it was just eat the natural, whatever it is. There's no right or wrong. But eat, take from me. This was Mother Earth talking to me. Take from me. Yeah. So that's what it was. It wasn't this is right, that's wrong.

Every animal eats different things you know there's always these i clap in front of aaron simpson for i think he posted a giant gorilla and he's like not enough protein in my diet bro you know it's like this 800 pound gorilla you know and it's like hey look there's no there's no right or wrong here like you're not going to go to the to the lion and say, oh, you're doing this all wrong, lion. Here, eat some grass instead. Come on. No. It's fine as long as it's from nature.

Well, it's also- Whether it provides to take it. Gorilla's a totally different animal. It's not a person. Well, they have cellulose. Even from a chemical standpoint, they're going to break down things we can't break down without digestive enzymes added to our diet. But people love that argument. Look how strong gorillas are, bro.

They just eat roots and shit. Why don't you go pull shit out of a swamp and eat the stem? Like they chew on stems. What else do they do? They also have one-inch dicks. How about that? There's a lot of bad things about being a gorilla. I don't know.

I just think that factory farming is something that people recognize a lot when they have psychedelic experiences. The connection between the suffering of their food. And that's real. I've had multiple visions of that. Yeah. For sure. That's as real as it gets, man. And that's not fun.

It's not like you watch that and you're like, oh, like you're watching a movie. It's not like watching The Cove. And then watching The Cove is hard enough. But I mean i mean you experience it you feel what it's like you embody that consciousness yeah and you know they know they're all fucking aware they're not just these dumb things like go around and eat some whatever they provide for me no you know like my buddy's on the chopping block like i'm stuck here shoulder to shoulder. Like, you can feel that and tap into that. And I don't know how that's going to stop. That seems to be ingrained in our idea of feeding cities.

It seems like the only way they can produce enough meat to feed all these fucking people in these cities, the way they're doing it it now is to continue this factory farming method it's just it's horrific the movie food inc awesome documentary yeah and the end is hey like yeah it's fucked what do we do what do we do now you do vote with your dollar so every time you say uh i can't even taste the difference between free range eggs and these caged eggs i'm gonna save a few bucks. You vote with your dollar. If you spend a little extra, you're going to feel better from it, but also you're going to help change the culture.

And they show Walmart having organic yogurt or something on the shelves just because there's demand there. I mean, if you're going to Costco here in California, they have all kinds of organic shit in Costco, mass-produced, wide-scale, for cheap because there's a demand for it. You go there in Arizona or Nevada, maybe not the same. Whole Foods is going to have Whole Foods, but from giant companies like that, they're listening, and it's just a matter of money. If people are willing to spend it and this is what they want,

they're going to supply it, period. Yeah, but there's also those ag-gag laws that keep people from filming factory farms where they pack these chickens into these horrible living conditions and you can't film it. If you film it, you can get in deep trouble. They did a drone video. The pig farm? Yeah, the pig farm in Carolina. That was a mind fucker nasty and they show the people there shit and piss that they had next to it and they interview the the people that

are living by there and they just smell it constantly oh yeah this funk death just death and methane i mean the that river of piss and shit that comes out of the bottom of that place and settles into that little lake that they had and that's not normal piss and shit that comes out of the bottom of that place and settles into that little lake that they had in front of them. And that's not normal piss and shit. That is the worst, most diseased, you know, piss and shit. Imagine just living there, like working there rather, like someone who works in there, like the sadness you feel every day and the smells that you take in through your nose every day. PETA was showing a video, probably one of the worst that I actually had the balls to

watch, of how foie gras is made in France. You ever seen this? Yeah, I have seen it. Just brutal. Like, people are working there, and they're tossing in the chicks. That's their job, throwing them in the meat grinder. Oh. So they have humans that actually have to be a part of that process.

So the ones that they don't want. That they don't want. Like, what is it, males or something like that? I don't know. They get rid of the males or they get rid of the females. One or the other. Yeah. The foie gras, you know what's interesting about foie gras

is they actually gravitate towards that feeder. It's really strange. I had a farmer explain it to me before. Like, they actually want to be fed. Like, they'll go to that feeder and you can grab them and stick it in their mouth. And it looks awful when they force feed them. Pump them up.

Yeah, they force feed them with grain. They just pour it down their throat. But it looks awful when they force feed them. Dump them up. Yeah, they force feed them with grain. They just pour it down their throat. But apparently it's not that bad for them. It's perception as far as, like, we're fattening them up for slaughter, and what if that was you and they put your mouth around this metal pipe? It's quality of life, you know? But seeing these guys go through the meat grinder and some of them don't die. The grinding up of the chicks? They get ground up, and some of them don't die. The grinding up of the chicks?

They get ground up and some of them come out the other side still alive. Yeah. Just shaking a half. That's not foie gras, though. They do that with a lot of roosters. That's just a fact. They just grind them up. Yeah, it's a fuck deal.

It's a fuck deal. You know, I was on the highway once and I passed this truck and it was stuffed with chickens. It was just madness. I was looking at this truck it was like you know there were some uh openings where the chickens could breathe like some small holes in the side of the truck and you're just realizing this is like a thing that's packed with life that's being treated like a commodity like stacked rocks you know it's. It's bizarre to see a truck just driving down the road, just stacked bottom to top with living things that are just going to get either ground up or chopped up or, you know. Doesn't matter.

They're going off to death. Well, it's what happened when we made these city things. This is also something that didn't exist 10,000, 20,000 years ago. these city things. This is also something that didn't exist 10, 20,000 years ago. When they had any kind of agriculture back then, you grew some livestock, you killed those animals, you knew where they lived, you knew what they ate, or you knew the guy who raised them. And it was real simple. And then somewhere along the line, someone said, we need like a Costco of farming. We need to get a big place and stuff everything in there and close it to the general public so nobody could see and jab these fuckers with needles and fill them up with antibiotics so

they don't get sick from all this crazy food we're giving them and boy the change from that people are much more aware now and they're asking for free range food and antibiotic free food and you know grass-fed meats and things along lines. But most people can't afford it. A lot of people can't afford it. There's a difference between— I think the cat—I spend a shit ton of money on that. I really do. A lot of money goes there.

I think knowing where to get your food from. There's certain things you've got to go, like, okay, hey, I can't afford— to this day, I don't buy grass-fed filet mignon. It's $25 a pound, but I can afford grass-fed burger and free-range chicken. They sell free-range chicken at free-range organic chicken at Costco now. So I can get it for $3.99 a pound. What does that mean, though, when they say free-range organic? Are they like on a field having a great time?

They're allowed to go around. Now, there's varying levels of that, obviously. And certainly on a mass scale, it's probably not going to be the same as Farmer John down the street who's doing it all natural. Organic is still going to be organic feed. They can't do any antibiotics and they can't feed them GMO food from what my understanding is. Well, what's interesting to me is that we're having these conversations now very frequently. There's a lot of these documentaries where it's Food Inc. or King Corn or Cowspiracy. There's a bunch of these documentaries where people are examining how food is made and prepared

and where it's coming from and how they're growing it. And we're more aware of it now than ever before. So some people, at least some people, there's a movement to make more conscious choices. And this wasn't around when our parents were around. But I don't think factory farming was around when they were around either. There's also the difference in the amount of people. I mean, I read something about the 1970s. There was like 100 million plus less people in America in the 1970s.

I mean, that's inside my life. 100 million plus more people just here in the United States. Go research that, Jamie. Pull that up. Jamie's a wizard with this shit. 1970. 1970 was around 203 million. Yeah, so it's 100 million difference.

That's crazy. Boy, do we fuck the fuck. We just love making babies. Baby boomersers all the baby boomers kids having kids You're part of the problem now to pal. Yeah Yeah, well the good news is the good the good news is we were like, you know, three four who knows right? Then you do that for six months, you're like he might be an only child What the fuck did we do What do we get ourselves into I'm tell We were talking about this before the podcast.

Once they start talking, man, it's a totally different world. It all gets way better. It gets way more easy. But when they start talking, they become like your little friends. You know? Like, it becomes like, I can't wait to see my kids. Like, after this podcast, I'm going to go hang out with them. And it becomes amazing.

It is amazing. They run, and they hug you you and they talk to you about school And my daughter had this thing today at school. She had this little You know like What do they call them? I want to say a recital assembly assembly Thank you very much Jamie They had a little assembly and all the kids do their little thing and she had this big thing that she was like really proud of She had to announce something and and say part of this little thing that they were going to do part of the song they're doing a song about uh different

languages and speaking french and speaking spanish and and so she she has to go up and do this little thing it's just like this little proud moment and afterwards like she's like beaming and she's so happy she's five you know and she runs up to me and jumps in my arms and gives me this big hug the love that you get from that the feeling that you get of of warmth and of love and a connection with this little tiny beautiful human boy it's like nothing else like it and then you also recognize this was one of the big ones for me as i as my children got older and i started putting it all started trying at least to put the pieces of it all together i started looking at people like they're babies like oh this fucked up dude who's all angry at the world and just devastated and just emotionally a

wreck that was a baby that was a baby that just didn't get the love that he needed or a baby that was abused or a baby that was neglected or a baby that was rejected, like whatever it was, this fucked up person, now in my mind became a baby. Like crazy people. Like I'd see a girl on top of a bar with a fucking top off. Fuck yeah! That's a baby. That's a baby that became that.

Any asshole guy is fucking screaming at people in traffic and pointing at people, fuck you, I'll follow you to your fucking screaming at people in traffic and pointing up you'll fuck you i'll follow you to your fucking house that's a baby that's a baby that became this asshole like it's it's just this developmental process that goes off the rails and into the forest and it's fucked up and to get it back on track is insanely difficult, insanely. And the work that's required, most people are not willing to do DMT. Most people are not willing to change their diet and to take yoga every morning and to fucking get up early and meditate for 20 minutes every day to try to be mindful.

Most people are just acting on momentum, just scrambling. Yeah, how can i distract myself what can i put in front of my face that'll make me think of something else than what i have to deal with that's why i like talking to people like you because i know that you're this on this constant search for improvement and this constant search for growth and i think that talking to people like you and talking to people that are filling themselves with knowledge and constantly trying to evaluate their perspective and maybe enhance their perspective, that's inspiring. And it also gives fuel to other people that want to do the same. People will hear this podcast and they'll go, fuck, man, I want to try some of that shit that Kyle Kingsbury tried.

Maybe I want to do ayahuasca. Maybe I want to read some of the books that he read. Maybe I want to try some of the meditation techniques that Kingsbury tried. Maybe I want to do ayahuasca. Maybe I want to read some of the books that he read. Maybe I want to try some of the meditation techniques that he's tried. Maybe I want to do this. Maybe I want to do that. And I think in doing that, like in one person like you who's seeking these things, you can start like this cascade. You start this effect.

You started the cascade. I mean, I've listened to so many podcasts where I was like, fuck, that guy. Alright. Let me do that. Even just Wim Hof. Just in that. Eight weeks. I heard him, I don't know, maybe a couple weeks after he was on. I was doing breath work at the beach

and my buddy was like, man, we also had a little laser disc. We'll say. We watched a laser disc. You watched a laser disc? You watched a laser disc? How do I put this? I'm trying to figure out what you're saying. Can we read between the lines here?

I'm trying. Syllables. Syllables. Laser. Oh, LSD. Sir. Disc. There we go.

Why don't you say LSD? Okay. You're talking about mushrooms and ayahuasca, like this other shit we've got to keep under wraps. All right, that's true. Laser disc, I get it. I don't you say LSD? Okay. You're talking about mushrooms and ayahuasca. Like, this is all the shit we've got to keep under wraps. All right, that's true. Laser disc. I get it. I didn't understand that.

That's something I've never done. See, you know what? I've never done the LSD. Yeah, well. People keep telling me. Some woman was yelling at me at a show the other night. Go do LSD! I think you would love it.

Do it! Do LSD! Woo! I was listening to you and Red Band talk about this and mescaline and things like that and peyote. And I was like, man, I can't believe with having tried other things that you didn't try that. Yeah, there's a bunch of shit I haven't tried. I heard Jim Fadiman, who wrote the Psychedelic Explorer's Guide. I heard him on Ferris' podcast, got his book, read it.

And then I saw that MAPS was doing the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies, was doing a presentation in Palo Alto down the street from me. And Rick Doblin, the head of MAPS, was going to be there presenting with Jim Fadiman. I was like, oh, this is amazing. I got to go. And once you've had a breakthrough psychedelic experience, it's amazing. It can be life-changing or it can fuck your mind up, whatever. You can take that for what it is. A large portion of his book was on microdosing and in microdosing they were talking about taking a sub sub perceptual breakthrough level so meaning like i don't see shit i just feel and think differently right and he said that's really

the future of psychedelic research. And that's exactly what Hoffman was doing until he died at 102 years old, the guy who developed LSD. So we went and I listened to these guys speak. And since then I have tried microdosing with LSD and it is phenomenal. Like it's almost like a smart drug in itself, but you feel good. You have energy. You can see why people might do it at a festival or a concert. Everything sounds a little more clear. Music sounds better. I could see myself running on it.

You really can still interact. I could talk to cops on it. You're fine to communicate and to be, but you do think differently. You are connected in a different way. That's all the rage in Silicon Valley. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I thought of you right when I was here, and I was like, differently you are connected in a different way that's all the rage in silicon valley yeah yeah yeah exactly and i was i thought of you right when i was here and i was like oh man oh man not down with the mescaline not down with the lsd huh not that i'm not down the problem with

acid is the people that want to do acid with you you don't want to do acid with them you're like yeah i gotta go dude yeah it's all these weird people that are pushing it and they want to like duncan is the only guy that i know that gets real acid and we've sort of made a loose commitment to me and him getting together and doing it one day i want to hear about that yeah for sure awesome i'll definitely talk about it but um the the thing that i've been really into that i get these big breakthrough um objective moments introspective moments is edible pot and psych and flotation flotation chambers there's something about sensory deprivation with the edible pot it creates this bizarre sort of hallucinogenic

state visionary state that's That's very unusual. So from a visionary standpoint, do you, when you see, obviously you're in pitch black, so anything you see in your mind's eye is what you're seeing. Would you say you see like more of the sacred geometry or the kaleidoscope of shapes and things that you do from DMT? Or do you just see like a memory or you relive something or maybe you see something from

that's been on your mind and you live that moment for a second and then pull back out of it. Well, that's one of the fascinating things about it is the experience is incredibly flexible. Whereas like the experience of DMT, although it varies, it's also very DMT. Like when you do DMT, you're like, whoa, reality dissolves and you're there. Like the last one that I had was very strange. Like there was these gestures that were giving me the finger. They kept giving me the finger. I'm like, what is this about? And then I was trying to figure out like, what are they trying to tell me? And one of the things they were trying to tell me is uh it was almost like a reaction to not worrying what other people think of you or not worrying about people fucking with you or not it was almost like what do you care what do you care i'm doing this to you too what do you care what do you care like why why are you tripping about this

and then i kind of got it in the trip, and then they're like shaking their head, yeah. And there's this weird fractal thing that's constantly going on. But every time I do it, it seems like these lessons that are wrapped up in these visions with communicating entities, whatever the fuck they are, whether they're figments of your imagination or whether they're real, there's always lessons in there. And these lessons are always pertaining to either a personal hiccup that I got going on or something that I'm struggling with or trying to overcome or something that I'm constantly focusing on and trying to understand better. So it's like, let me help you out there, dude. Fuck you. And these gestures were all going, fuck you.

I was like, why are they going, fuck you was like why are they going fuck you? I was trying to figure out what it is. It's like it's almost an Inoculation to hostility like they're like letting you like what why even taking this in like you know What it what why you even concentrating on that? This is pointless There's so much more and then when you get past that level the experience so much more and then when you get past that level of the experience whoa it blossoms into some new level of the experience so the dmt state is very dmt like but the cannabis the edible cannabis the the 11 hydroxy metabolite state that you get from edible cannabis which is dose per dose five times more psychoactive than thc that's why people when they eat it they trip out and

they go oh my god i think somebody laced it with something. No, it's very much like an intense psychedelic when you eat it. That's why you got to be careful and not eat too much. Like people that fucking freak out and have panic attacks. It's because it's strong as shit when you eat it. But in the tank, sometimes I go on these journeys that I like, I'm in the forest and i can hear other languages and i understand them and i don't know what the fuck they are and sometimes i'm a part of a like a ball of yarn that the universe is made out of and each individual fiber that's in this gigantic strand that's a part of this wrapped up ball of yarn is all the individual atoms that make up being a person or a tree or a book or a rock and all these different things are

intertwined and it shows you the fractal nature of reality from the lowest subatomic particle to the the biggest planet in the solar system to the biggest galaxy in the universe and it just goes out there in this very strange and humbling and bizarre like a vulnerable like vulnerability inducing state and then it'll go from that to cartoons fucking like it'll go like neon cartoons banging each other and producing a bunch of other neon cartoons. You had me at cartoons fucking. Dude, it's not just cartoons fucking, but they're like neon. They're made out of neon lights. And they're banging each other and they're becoming other ones.

Having that goddamn thing in my basement is a blessing and a curse at the same time. Because it's a blessing in that it's great that I can go in there anytime I want. But sometimes one crazy trip will just leave me like baffled for days. But the relaxation aspect of it too, sometimes I'll go in there on the natch and just chill out and just float and I get out of there, man. I feel good. Like I'll be in there and while I'm in there floating, I'll push down on my hips and my back will go pop, pop.

Everything's loosening up because of all the Epsom salts in it. It has magnesium and the magnesium is great for your body. It's one of the best ways to absorb magnesium is through the skin. That's why an Epsom salt bath is so good for your muscles.

But no Epsom salt bath can fuck with the tank. Not even close. That thousand pounds of salt in there. No massage can fuck with the tank. I've had amazing massages, but when you come out of the tank, you do feel like you're floating for hours after. You just feel high. So you've been in the tank, you just haven't been in the tank on anything.

I haven't done anything in the tank, not yet. And that's like- Just smoke a little. Just a little. I'd rather have a good... Now there's places available in the Bay Area. See, back in the day, there was a lady in Los Gatos that wasn't far from me, and she sponsored

me for fight camps. So I would go in once a week or twice a week leading up to a fight. Oh, really? Interesting. And it was amazing. It was a great... That really got me into flotation. And then she ended up moving down to santa cruz which is a little hike for me so i i've been to oakland different places they have them set up now and um there's a couple places that allow the midnight run so you can

go in at midnight and stay overnight so you do an overnight float all the way until 6 a.m or 8 a.m yeah and someone's in there with you? Oh, they have someone working there. But you can go in there and just sleep in it, basically. Fucking crazy hippies. I think they know what's up. I think they know what time it is. Oh, yeah. I guarantee you.

It's just a matter of what do I do. That's why I was curious. I wanted to ask you about that. Yeah. When you say visionary state, what are you getting from that? Well, when you say, like oh sometimes I'm in the woods there's this yeah that's all the answer that I need that's for sure gonna happen I've done mushrooms in them and that's pretty intense too how many grams not

that many like three okay see if I found like I mean that's a lot trying to not like yeah yeah I feel like between a one gram to four gram dose, I get a lot of feeling from it, but I don't necessarily get to a visionary state. But five grams or- But do you do it in silent darkness? Like, where are you doing it? Yeah. I guess it would be different there. The visionary state, to me me occurs with the eyes closed

That's how the real visions come and most of the time when people are doing it They're out in nature and I like the first time I ever did mushrooms. We did it like in the woods And it's beautiful man it's felt he felt like the the vibrations of the earth as if it was like loving you and breathing and like Like it was a you felt like connected to it in a way that I never felt before. But there was no, not much visions because you're out there. I mean, it seemed like alive and everything seemed strange. It was kind of pixelated and everything sort of had like, like a geometric pattern to it in a weird way that you never experience. have had them at the beach and we had a monster dose one time after ayahuasca has really kind of

Improved other psychedelic experiences for both of us. So you can let go Yeah, like some of those lessons of not trying to control it, you know, just going with the flow and yeah And then also from a stomach standpoint like a lot of people that eat mushrooms It fucks their stomach up It used to fuck my stomach up But after you've purged from ayahuasca like it's nothing for me to have a bunch of mushrooms in my stomach it's never did that to me to my stomach i don't know it's hit or miss it really is i think it's a very personal deal but uh we had seven grams each on the beach and that's the most we've ever taken and i went when i was face up she's 110 pounds too so she's the real trooper but when i was face up, she's 110 pounds too, so she's the real trooper. But when I was face up, you could see things that I wouldn't normally see.

Like seagulls in a V formation, I could see laser beams connecting their wings. And then it was like fractal, like you would from a DMT trip. But every color of the light spectrum was connecting their wings as they flowed through air. And then the sound of the ocean is different. But then when I went face down and buried my face in the sand, then I had complete visionary state, just like DMT or ayahuasca even. Yeah, I would imagine. And it probably lasts a long-ass time, too.

A long time. A long day. That was a long day at the beach. I bet it was probably a couple solid hours of visions then, right? With that kind of dose? Yeah. On and off. There was some, yeah.

I kept seeing, initially, I kept seeing, like, this group of people, like, kind of eyeballing us. And then I was thinking, like, are they going to take our shit? Like, are they going to try to steal? Are they going to have to fight someone? Like, this is weird. And this is a place not a lot of people go to. And I kept seeing that and then I had to take a deep breath like and Tosh could like feel me you know feel like my energy she could feel what's going on she's like are you okay like uh somebody kind of come she's like no what are you what are you talking about

she's like playing with fucking sea turtle bugs and shit whatever you know like she's just she's in heaven you know and she's looking over at me and I'm like, am I okay? And she's like, seriously, you're fine. Don't worry. You're fine. I was like, okay. And I put my head back down and I kept seeing, then like this young kid kind of comes through the crowd.

Like he's going to challenge me and he walks down. I'm like, Oh fuck. I got to defend us. I got to fight. And I know how fucked up I am. I can't believe we got to defend myself. And I'm like, it's playing out in my mind all the ways that I'm gonna have to fight this guy. And I realized right then,

like I stand up, open my eyes, I'm like, oh fuck, it's just a vision. And I was like, my heart's racing. I'm like, why would I think that? And then I realized every fucking day of my life since I was a little kid, I play that out. Anytime someone gives me a dirty look or says like, whatever, being picked on as a kid, bullied, that kind of shit. Like I always play that out. Anytime someone gives me a dirty look or says like,

whatever, being picked on as a kid, bullied, that kind of shit. Like I always play that out. Like, how am I going to have to fight this guy? Am I going to have to fucking defend myself? How is it going to play out? Oh, he's, he's got a long fucking neck. I'm going to take his back and choke him out. Whatever.

You know what I'm saying? But it just showed me how silly this dumbass mind game that I would play, and I would go down the rabbit hole on a fucking daily basis sometimes, like just playing into this thought of negativity that had no space for me, and it does me no good to play that out. Like, well, that's fine because then I'll do this. No, no, no, no, none of that shit. I'm wasting time, and I'm becoming emotionally attached to those thoughts. It's not just, oh, I'm thinking about this.

I'm feeling like I'm in a fight right now. That fucks you up. That turns you into not your best version of yourself. So that vision from mushrooms was just a fucking game changer. It doesn't stop me from having those thoughts, but it allows me to catch myself. I'm aware of it. The pattern still exists.

You just don't entertain it anymore. I don't entertain it. I can see it and let it go like when they talk about meditating oh if you have a thought just recognize the thought and let it go that's easier said than done now i've had time to digest and assimilate that and especially bouncing or bartending and guys being a dick or whatever it's very easy much easier for me to be like i don't have to entertain the guy swings at me then it happens that's's what I'm worried about. You're not going to not know when it's getting ugly. But there's no need. Like, sometimes things, I always say that about cops.

Like, sometimes I bet certain people, whether it's the people that deal with the cops or certain people that are cops, things happen that don't need to happen because people have these ideas or have these patterns that are playing on in their head. And for a cop, I would imagine it's got to be incredibly difficult because you're dealing with all these people that are constantly breaking laws and violating things, and you're supposed to enforce them, and you're constantly worried about getting shot and getting home to your family. You're constantly worried about pulling some guy over,

and he's got fucking 20 pounds of coke in the back and a machine gun in his front seat. And you don't know because his windows are tinted. And you're like, sir, roll down your window, and he's got fucking 20 pounds of coke in the back and a machine gun in his front seat. And you don't know, because his windows are tinted. And you're like, sir, roll down your window, and you got your hand on your gun. You're like, what the fuck am I getting into here? And then these patterns that people have, whether it's as a police officer

or as a person getting pulled over by cops, they can change the way you interact with people and change the circumstances of the day and turn a tragedy into a nothing or a nothing into a nothing or a nothing into a tragedy. Yeah. That's the lens. That's the filter you see through. Yeah. All your interactions come out of that patterns, man. And sometimes the beautiful thing about psychedelics is that it allows you to get outside of you and look at the ridiculousness of you. That's one of the

biggest. Yeah. That's when you talk about change and transformation and things like that uh that's been my biggest catalyst and seeing the way i behave and that doesn't mean that i'm mr perfect and i don't get angry or i'm not a like yeah no sleep first six months with a child we've we've tasha and i've had you know that's that anybody who's had a kid knows like that's fucking a real struggle you know there's no perfect people, man. This doesn't exist. That's this idea that there's a perfect person. This is an enlightened being.

There are people that choose to go down certain paths that will lead to them making better decisions, lead to them living a more harmonious life. But you're just a monkey. lead to them living a more harmonious life. But you're just a monkey. You're just some fucking talking ape that's on this planet filled with contradictions and chaos, and you're trying to get through, like all of us are. And there's going to be interrelationship drama and work drama and fucking community drama

and neighborhood drama, and you're going to... Sometimes you'll be too stressed out or too tired or too distracted or too overworked or whatever the fuck it is, and you're going to, sometimes you'll be too stressed out or too tired or too distracted or too, too overworked or whatever the fuck it is. And you're going to have a bad reaction to those things. It doesn't define you. And that's a real problem that people have though, is one bad reaction. Like you yell at your neighbor and your neighbor, fuck you. And the cops come, you piece of shit, I'm going to slash your tires and fuck you. And these things that happen, I got a buddy of mine last night explaining to me something that he got into was with his neighbor.

I got a buddy of mine last night explaining to me something that he got into with his neighbor. And he accused his neighbor of slashing his tire. And he fucking yelled at his neighbor. And then he got his car picked up by AAA. They changed his tire. They go, you hit a curb. So he had hit a curb and deflated his tire. And he was blaming his neighbor.

Pulled a spare out of your mouth right now. He created this whole fault. And he was like, and I was like, he's a comic. I was like, are you going to talk about this on stage? He was like, I can't. I'm too embarrassed now. I'm not ready to like, this isn't funny to me yet. He's like, you're telling me because we're friends and we're both laughing. I'm like, fuck, man.

Did you apologize to him? He was like, not yet. He was like, God damn it. I don't know what to do. Like, because his neighbor would get pissed cuz he parked in front of his house and The guy had trash cans and he's like you're parking too close to my trash cans I can't get my trash cans eyes like what and so he goes out He finds this note on his car and his tires flat and he assumed that the guy wrote the note

tire yeah He's a good guy, but he fucked up You know like fuck ups. But if you took those fuck ups and you like, it's all you concentrate on your whole life. All the times you fucked up. Like you're like, Oh my God, I'm a fuck up. Like, no, you're just a person, man.

That shit will repeat itself. Like you will fucking fall into the path of that instead of having the humility or at least getting a little help from an outside source that allows you to take a step back, pull the blinders off and see what's going on. And be like, you know what, man, I fucked up. That's also why objectivity is so important and introspective thought is so important

because sometimes people just make excuses for everything they do. Everything they do, they have a fucking excuse for. So you never get the lessons. You never get the growth. You never learn. You just constantly repeat, constantly repeat. an excuse for so you never get the lessons you never get the growth you never learn you just you just constantly repeat constantly repeat and then one day you're a bitter old man yelling at these

kids to stop with their fucking rock and roll music and your goddamn car driving down my street with your loud muffler and that's the same shit you know just patterns just they fall into these patterns and then they die and these never Never corrected enough. Never never just never got it. Never got it, right? No introspection if there's no quiet time Yeah, we're running out of time. That's it. It's over Kyle Kingsborough. You bad motherfucker. This is fun, man Fuck yeah, we did this I loved it So I got to get one of those bad boys and get my millimolars millimolars. What is it? Millimolars millimolars. Millimolars? What is it? Millimolars checked. Millimolars checked.

And, um... The blood ketone meter. So let's do this again, man. I think we could probably do this for fucking hours and hours and hours. I would love to. For sure. Come back again. We'll do it one more time. Kingsboo on Twitter if you want to get a hold of Kyle. I put that on my Twitter. And, uh,

that's it. Thanks, brother. Appreciate it, man. Thank you very much, brother. Alright, my friends, that's it for the week. Oh Appreciate it, man. Thank you very much, brother. All right, my friends, that's it for the week. Oh, we'll be back with a fight companion Saturday night. Woo-woo! Brendan Shaw, Brian Callen, Eddie Bravo, and me. So that's Saturday night. We'll be here for the UFC fights.

All right, my friends. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Woo! I'm out.