The Joe Rogan Experience - #757 - Gary Clark, Jr.

Episode Date: February 8, 2016

Gary Clark, Jr. is a Grammy award winning musician and guitar player. He can been seen on his new tour in 2016 all over the world, and his latest album "The Story of Sonny Boy Slim" is out now. http://www.garyclarkjr.com

Gary Clark Jr. fan. Awesome. Respect to Ari. Appreciate it. Here we are. Yeah, man. What's going on, man? Oh, man. Just trying to figure out L.A. I came out here in July and just kind of figuring it out, man. Is not Austin. Not at all. No.

Not at all. But I'm starting to get a little bit, you know, familiar. And Austin's a couple hours away on an airplane, so I can figure it out. But, yeah, man, I'm glad you hit me up. The Honey Honey crew. Yeah. That's the one who, like, popped that off. Yeah, yeah, Suzanne connected us.

Awesome. Yeah, they're great. They're good people, man. I love those guys. Yeah, I ran into them at Bridge School Benefit, the Neil Young thing. So it's good to reconnect. First time I came out here, we did a gig with them. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah ran into them at Bridge School Benefit, a near young thing. So it's good to reconnect. First time I came out here, we did a gig with them. Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what made you move from Austin, which is like one of the best spots in the world, if you could pull it off, to California, which is still one of the best spots in the world, if you can pull it off, but so much more complex, so much more bullshit, so much more ego, so much more traffic, so much more complex so much more bullshit so much more ego so much more traffic so much more actors right that's true man that's very true but um i spent some time in new york city i spent my whole life in austin always wanted to come out west and figure out what it's like you know and um so i got the opportunity to do it. So I'm just out here checking it out,

be in a few months. Oh, so there was no, like, specific, like, pulling reason. You said, let me just try LA. Nah, me and my girl just decided we would spend some time out here. I like it. I like moves like that, man. I think about doing those all the time.

But my wife is so not into that because I moved that bitch to the top of a mountain at one time, and she almost fell off the cliff. Oh, for real? She got driving the snow. My dog got killed by a mountain lion. It was a bunch of shit happened. Yeah.

Meanwhile, I was in heaven. Loved it. Damn. Yeah. Well, yeah. Speaking of mountain lions, I heard they're like creeping around over here. There's quite a few of them. Yeah.

You can't hunt them in California. So they have no natural predators other than cars. Right. And there's people that think that's a good idea because they keep the deer population in check. There's a good argument for that because we don't have Lyme disease. There's very little Lyme disease in California. And one of the reasons for that is there's not that many deer, especially around here. Whereas if you're on the East Coast, the East Coast right now has a real Lyme disease epidemic

because these deer are overpopulated. And overpopulated deer means they don't get enough food and they're more susceptible to disease and fucking Lyme disease is the big one. Ticks. These ticks with Lyme disease. I know a bunch of people from the east coast that have got lyme disease it's fucking bad it's big down in texas too there's deer everywhere yeah so i guess that's a good thing but i'll be freaked out if i walked out you know most of the time enough to

worry most of the time they're going after cats and dogs and shit like that they kill a lot of rabbits and small animals and deer they decimate the deer population they kill most of the deer with either coyotes get them or mountain lions get them like when i see deer in my neighborhood it's pretty unusual whereas if i go back east like uh you know like i have a buddy lives on a farm in um well he owns a farm in wisconsin there's fucking deer everywhere there so that's the type of place where you got to worry about ticks. Fuck that. You worried about mountain lions? I mean, anything that could take a chunk out of me,

I'm a little bit worried about. Where do you live? Well, don't say specifically. Yeah. Do you live somewhere hilly? No, no, no. Okay, you're all right. You've been in the flatlands where the people are?

Yeah. Although they did kill one in someone's backyard in Santa Monica two years ago. Yeah. Fucking Santa Monica. Do you remember that? It was a big one, too. It was like a 150-pound cat in some dude's yard, just chilling, sleeping in his yard. I can't do that.

I can't do that. Talk about something else. I'm going to freak out. Really? I just don't fuck with nature. You know what I mean? I'm going to freak out. Really? I just don't fuck with nature. You know what I mean? I love that. That should be a meme.

I don't. I respect it. Yeah, me too. I'm not really into getting eaten by some shit. But just that phrase, I don't fuck with nature. That should be a picture of you with a guitar pointing at the camera that just says, I don't fuck with nature. Yeah, right. Oh, man.

You know what I mean. I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, it's dangerous, man. You go out there in the wilderness and, you know, cities are great. You know, people think that somehow or another if you love nature that you don't love cities i love everything cities there's beauty in everything can't can't be closed-minded yeah i agree i mean i'm coming from where i'm from austin there's you know city and then there's nice land around it so i like to jump jump back and forth and be involved in both.

But I will not fuck with mountain lions. I don't mess with sharks. No, me neither, man. I don't do any of that stuff. Yeah, I'm down with that. My kids are going to start taking surfing lessons. They're little. Five and seven, they want to take surfing lessons.

That's like a bite, like one bite. You don't even survive if you get bitten by a shark if you're five you serve no yeah i don't fuck with sharks either yeah i would sure i would serve if they would figure out some sort of bite-proof suit for sure you know that's what's holding me back yeah that's definitely what's holding me back i would have a bite-proof suit and then i would want a big assass knife strapped to my thigh. So if a shark did bite me and it didn't get through, I'd just fucking fight in his head. Boom! Motherfucker.

Take that. Take it, bitch. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. Well, there's a lot of them over here, too. There's more sharks for sure than there are mountain lions, I think. What did I say for sure if I think?

sharks for sure than there are mountain lines i think what did i say for sure if i think but when you uh fly over california like there's a lot of like helicopters that fly over like the malibu coast they they take video footage of big ass great white sharks all the time that are just a couple hundred yards away from people surfing yeah no thanks no thanks that's a lot of helicopters out here in L.A. in general. Yeah. Wow. Well, because it's a big, flat area and there's a lot of criminals, it's a good way to catch people. It's weird when you watch it.

You know, they call them ghetto birds. It's weird when you watch them and the helicopters are flying over and they have a spotlight on somebody. You start feeling guilty. You haven't even done shit. Yeah, I know. You know? I know. I know.

I'm particularly sensitive that way. I would imagine. Yeah. Especially being from out of town. It wasn't me today, damn it. How long you been doing music, man? Man, I've been playing guitar since 96. I always kind of wanted one.

And my folks were, I a habit of of quitting what I started you know like I play baseball for a little bit I try to do martial arts for a little bit I try to do basketball football and none of it kind of stuck I would always kind of go back to music so finally in 96 I just I got in it and quit caring about anything you know I got a guitar discovered herb and I was like yeah that was about it did you take lessons or did you self-taught um I didn't take lessons formally like I didn't pay anybody for lessons I probably should at this point but my friend of mine Eve Monse she had a guitar and she had a band and she uh her and her band would practice all the time so I would hear them so I would go over there and check it out and I'll take my

guitar and she would show me you know like a 12 bar blues kind of like a Jimmy Reed shuffle type thing, or like a power chord rock and roll thing, whatever. So that was kind of how I first started, and I rented books. I went to the school library, my middle school library, and just rented how to play guitar. Wow. Watched this TV show, Austin City Limits. It came on every Saturday. I know that show.

So I used to just sit there and figure it out. Wow. Record the tapes and go back and figure it out. So it was essentially like the first thing that you really connected to that you stuck with. Yeah. What was it about playing guitar? I think the thing for me was... I think the thing for me was, I mean, I love music.

And I mean, the guitar for me was the instrument that could, it could paint so many different colors. It was very versatile. You know, it could be loud, aggressive, or it could be sweet beautiful and I just thought if I could get my hands on one of those I would you know try and push it to the limit and you know and really figure out you just play with like the full spectrum it It's different than, you know, playing an electric guitar. For me, it seemed more like there were more options than like playing drums or playing trumpet or something. You know what I mean?

With toys and, you know, things like that. So that was it. I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm as interested in it, you know, 20 years later as I was, you know, then. That means you got the right thing. Yeah, I definitely found it. So I'm fortunate in that way. That's one of the harder things for kids, right? When you're a young kid and you don't really know what you want to do with your life and your whole future just looks like just confusing.

then your whole future just looks like just confusing. Sometimes the hardest thing is finding something that really rings your bell, like finding something. So for you, it seems like there was a bunch of different other options that just didn't really click, and then the guitar just, that was it. Yeah, well, I mean, baseball, I was a terrible hitter. I was pretty fast. Basketball, I was tall, but I was thin. So, you know, it put me in the post, and I'd get pushed out by these huge guys.

And I got tired of my coach going, Goddamn a junior when he would quit being a bitch. You know? So, you know, it was just with music, it just kind of clicked. It was something for me. What martial arts did you do? I tried taekwondo. You had a perfect build for that.

Yeah, I just didn't have the patience at the time. I really didn't. I wish I stuck with it, you know. But, yeah, I didn't have the patience or the discipline. I didn't want to, you know, be focused and stuff. I wanted to, you know, there's something out the window. I want to go run and jump out the window and go ride bikes or whatever it was. You know, they call that ADD, but I call that just being a fucking person, being curious.

Like there's a lot of shit that doesn't occupy your attention and you're supposed to make it occupy your attention. Right. You know? Well, you keep yourself pretty busy. Yeah, but like,

but look at, like, guitar obviously occupied your attention. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't believe in ADD in a lot of senses, in a lot of ways.

I think, there's obviously some people that have, like, a mental issue, but I think for most people what they're calling ADD is bored you're just bored yeah like school how fucking boring is school school's terribly boring yeah i was terrible in it i was terrible too i spent a lot of my time yeah you should stay in school kids but i spent a lot of time showing up to that building and

then immediately turning back around and going and doing what interested me yeah and look at you now motherfucker so i'm doing all right but i'm doing all right it's it's finding the thing and then going after it that's what it is And what school does is teaches you that the future is bleak in a lot of ways. Obviously, it educates you. And obviously, for people that go on to choose some sort of an academic career, it's imperative, right? But for a lot of people, that pushing you to pay attention to shit you don't want to pay attention to, it stifles creativity. It's just not the best way for people to learn. It gives you this horrible feeling about the future,

like you feel like an outsider. Yeah, I didn't feel comfortable at all. I mean, I was constantly trying to figure out why am I spending so much time every day doing this? And I just had other interests. I mean, I believe that it does work for some people. Yeah. And people need it.

But just for me, the type of person that I am, I was just like, I already know what I want to be doing. I wish I could spend my time doing other things. Alternative schooling wasn't really an option for me or anything at that point. Is this in Austin you were growing up? Yeah, I grew up in Austin. The school system there is pretty badass. alternative schooling wasn't really an option for me or anything at that point. Is this in Austin you were growing up? Yeah, I grew up in Austin. The school system there is pretty badass. Yeah, it was good, but I felt like I would much rather have four hours of music class than doing something else.

So I'm not really knocking the system. It was just my interest. So I'm not really knocking the system. It was just my interest. I think it's almost impossible to find a style of teaching or a course of study that's going to be really interesting and fascinating to every kid. Right. The problem, I think, is shoving kids in classes and trying to educate them like they're a product, like a factory. I just don't think the way we do it is the best way to do it.

I don't have a better solution, so I have to shut the fuck up. Yeah, I don't either. I don't either. You had to read that book, Brave New World. It's cool. That one kind of tripped me out. I don't know if I'm ready for that, but yeah. I don't have a solution either. There's a Cadillac that you have in one of your videos.

Is that your car? No. God damn. See, I hate when that shit happens, when those stylists, they hook you up with a car that I'm like, damn, Gary Clark Jr. drives a dope-ass old Cadillac. No, I drive a 94 Cadillac that I think is pretty dope. But the director of the video was like, no, it's a piece of shit.

So he got this girl to bring her ride. What year was that one? I think it was like a 66. It was so slick. I was like, if Gary Clark Jr. really drives that Cadillac, there it is. Look at that motherfucker. Yeah, no, man. Dude, you look like you just stepped off the set of Superfly.

I know. I know. And you know what? And then I got back to my house, and then I got in my car to go to do whatever I had to do. And I was like was like man this is not the same but that car is sick yeah it was amazing did you get to drive it um not even not like hung next to it no no i drove it up and down that that street like like seven times it's so depressing what they do man they've but they nailed it they found the

perfect car for your music yeah i know like that's a soulful car right like that car has a soul to it it's got like uh it's a piece of history it's a it's a piece of art you know yeah i know you're making me feel really terrible situation but you're a successful musician man everybody knows who you are you can go out get a sweet 66 yeah yeah I don't drive that much anymore I spend so much time on the road man right so yeah someday I have a nice little collection yeah someday someday in the in the mind you have so you drive you do drive a Yeah, someday. I have a nice little collection. Yeah, someday. Someday. That's in the mind.

So you do drive a Cadillac, though? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like an Escalade or something? No, no, no. No? A regular one? Yeah, I got this 94 Cadillac DeVille. When I was 19, I still got it. Really?

Yeah, man. Wow, that's actually even cooler, because that one's kind of a poser car in a lot of ways. With this car in the photo, like, you know, the beautiful 66, you can't really take that thing anywhere. Look at that. Where are you going to take it? Are you going to park it there? Some asshole in the Volvo is going to open up his car door on you?

You know? Yeah, I would struggle to parallel park that thing. You're going to get looks from those shitheads in Priuses, the self-righteous, moral, high-ground people. They're going to look at you. Do you have any idea? Is it worth it? Yes. Is it really worth it? You're killing seals. They're just going to look at you. Do you have any idea? Is it worth it? Is it really worth it?

You're killing seals. They're just going to look at you shitty. Yeah. Look at the fucking hubcaps or the rims on that. It must be rims. Those aren't hubcaps. That's some aftermarket shit.

Those beautiful white wall tires. I know. But in a lot of ways, like your car is actually cooler because your car is like a car that no one gets. No one wants to drive it. No, they don't get it to try to, like, look cool. Like, that car is such a I'm getting it to look cool car that it's not even yours and they used it for you in a music video to make you look badass.

Right? Right. But your car is actually more badass because it's your first car from the time when you're 19. You still have it. Right. And you drive it. But that's pretty cool, though. Fuck yeah, it's cool.

One day. Thanks for making me feel better, though. Well, you're more authentic, see? Like, if you were, like, going way out of your way to own that car, but it was breaking down all the time and it was fucking up, that would be kind of silly. That was your only car. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

But I'm thinking about my car breaking down all the time. Does it? Yeah, it did. Well, you got to get one of them new ones. Those new Cadillacs are fucking spaceships.

I saw some new thing they were working on, yeah. They have a bunch of new ones now. Cadillac's got some incredible cars now. They're finally, they're like, something happened

in like the late 90s, early 2000s. They started turning around and now they have pretty amazing cars. Wow. We'll get into that. I know.

You need like a CTS-V. You see one of those? Nah. I've been in a, I've been in a bubble. A musical bubble? In a musical bubble and then a baby bubble. Double bubble. Yeah, so I'm just getting out of it.

Here I am. Yeah, that's like a two-baby bubble, right? Because music is kind of like you're giving birth to an album. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. That's how I two-baby bubble, right? Because music is kind of like you're giving birth to an album. Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. That's how I feel about it. The new one that you came out with in September, it sounds different than the other ones, but cool. But it's almost like you're taking different chances

or you're experimenting with different sounds. Well, yeah, I was tellingie when i came in here i was like uh before i you know recorded uh my first album on the major black and blue i was living in Texas and I had a live room where I had drums, keys, bass rig, guitar all set up. And in another room I had my turntables, drum machines, keyboards all like going to this Pro Tools session. So I was just making demos and sampling records and just kind of doing whatever I wanted to do. And so for this, yeah, for this latest record, I just kind of wanted to get back into that space and experiment and vibe and challenge myself musically. You know, it's like just playing out on the road every night or whatever

for a few years, kind of playing the same songs and, you know, trying to bring new life to those in a certain way. It was different than I felt like I was kind of stagnant, like I wasn't playing drums like I was every day. I wasn't playing bass like I was. I want to be a musician. I want to be an all-around musician and push it to the limit. So for this latest record, I just was able to do that

and spend a lot of time and uh so yeah it does sound different it's all me playing you know most of the instruments as opposed to the last one was a band so oh wow how many how many different instruments do you play um i guess i wouldn't say i play them you know know what I'm saying? Like, I mess around, and some of it works. But I played drums. I played bass, keys, harmonica, percussion. You know, just kind of the foundation. And did you take lessons for any of these, like, former lessons?

Like, once you started rolling and you started becoming a musician? No, no no no no i was i was a choir boy in middle school were you yeah i got a hard time for that the basketball team just oh man they used to give me a hard time so that was a formal training that i had i learned you know scales and you know notes like that, but so you can read music Not really You put you can put it you can put a chart in front of me and I'll Okay No idea That's so crazy You're a musician

Like you're you're a real musician. You have like records you're with a record label I see your shit, and I saw you shit at the once, a music video that was playing on a television there. You're a professional musician. Right, right, right. But I don't read music. No, but it's like me being a comedian that doesn't write. No, it's worse. It's like me being an author who doesn't read books, who can't read books.

Does that make sense? No. No. Jamie says no. This guy behind me, he didn't play music. Hendrix? I got to take that picture down and put a real one up. Unfortunately, that's not his real mugshot photo.

It's a real photo, obviously, but that's not the actual photo. They fucked me, man. I bought this shit. That's Rosa Parks' real mugshot photo the Elvis one is real but it's not really a mugshot it was when he went to visit Nixon in the White House photo of him for a goof but that's just a classic picture of Hendrix and then they put his actual mugshot photo underneath it his real photo was him with like shorter hair it looked more like a classic afro that's like you know Jimi Hendrix mugshot photo underneath it. His real photo was him with shorter hair.

It looked more like a classic afro. That's like Jimi Hendrix's experience when they had those white dudes behind him with the big afros as well. That's his real photo. That's the real one. See, the image is correct for the mugshot, for his name, but that's the wrong photo.

They fucked me. Somebody had to tell me. Thank you, whoever told me. Some dude online let me know, hey dude, that ain't the real one. Fuck. Fuck, right? Assholes. They just got a good one. I mean, that looks like the perfect arrest photo of

Jimi Hendrix. And he also has this look on his face like, pfft, can't believe these motherfuckers are arresting me. Whereas the other one, he's got this look on his face like, I can't believe these motherfuckers are arresting me. Whereas the other one, he's got the look like, oh, shit, I just got fucking arrested for heroin. That's a different look. You know, that's the, ah, fuck, I can't believe it. God damn it. Take the picture, man.

Shit. Shit. I'm obviously a huge Hendrix fan. And I can't bring myself to read. He had a former bodyguard that wrote some book that claims that his ex-manager had him killed. That Hendrix's manager not only had him killed, but even had him kidnapped at one point in time. Just so he could rescue him. Because Hendrix was going to leave his manager.

at one point in time just so he could rescue him because Hendrix is going to leave his manager. This guy also alleges that Hendrix's manager killed Hendrix's girlfriend who was with him at the time that he died. She jumped off a building in Soho, I believe, and they think that they threw her off that building because she knew that this guy had killed Hendrix. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know either. So you did read this? No, I can't bring myself to it.

Yeah, I can't either. Because I don't want to get down some rabbit hole that I can't prove, but this guy, he was a musician himself. He was with the Animals, I believe. You know, what was that one hit song they had? I forget the song. But he was actually a musician himself, and it didn't work out for him, and he started working as a bodyguard for Hendrix

and working with this manager character who was apparently universally known as a really bad guy, like real shady. Back in the day of music, you were dealing with a lot of mob characters, right? A lot of organized crime characters, a lot of creepy, like a lot of dangerous people like Phil Spector, that crazy fuck. Yeah. Yep. I mean, it doesn't get any crazier than that guy.

And if you don't know who Phil Spector is, you'll Google him and you'll go, well, how come his hair looks like this in one picture and his hair like that? He wore a bunch of crazy wigs when he got arrested for shooting a woman in the mouth just a few years ago and killing her. He picked up some woman at a bar on Sunset, took her back to his mansion and shot her in the mouth. Yeah, he was crazy. But that guy was famous for like putting guns in people's mouths. He was famous for pulling guns on people. And apparently it was just a big part of the music business back then.

It was organized crime and just dangerous people with ties to organized crime. And this guy who managed Hendrix, Hendrix apparently wanted to leave him. And as he was, you know, on his way out, that's when this guy had Hendrix kidnapped. This is what they are alleging in the book. And I believe it's been confirmed that Hendrix was kidnapped. And this guy did get him rescued. The idea is he had him kidnapped so he could rescue him. So he'd say, look, dude, you need me.

I just fucking saved your life. That's crazy fucked up shit. Crazy fucked up shit. Yeah, I don't know if I could dig deep and read. Yeah, exactly. I don't want to go there. I would like to know the truth, but I almost don't want to go down the rabbit hole. His name was Mike Jeffrey, and apparently he was also a demolition expert and assassin for the British MI6 before he was a manager.

Whoa. Jesus. Yeah. Whoa. Okay, I've got to read the book now. It sounds fascinating. Now I've got some shit to read this weekend. Yeah, definitely.

I don't know. I haven't come across anything like that in the music business you get kind of compared to him though in a lot of ways why is that is it just because you're a handsome young black man who's very good at the guitar i think it's because i'm handsome i mean what is it what i mean yeah i think that's what it is. I think that's what it is. But you do have, like in Numb, Numb's a perfect example of that. You have, that's an unusual sound, you know? Those guitar riffs that you have in that. And it's, I can't, like, there's certain sounds you go, ooh, like that's a Gary Clark sound.

Like that sounds like Hendrix. There was a bunch of Hendrix songs where you could hear Voodoo Child, and you go, okay, well, that's fucking Hendrix. People can catch that sort of unique sound in a world of people riffing, in a world of people making these amazing sounds with guitars. Occasionally someone can isolate particular sounds. like of course ACDC right right you know you listen to ACDC it's like almost immediately you know it's an ACDC song but you've got your own thing going on yeah I think so but I can understand that Hendrix

comparisons I mean fuzzy guitars over heavy riffs. Yeah. Black guy doing it, you know. Yeah, I get it. It used to bother me, but I'm not mad at it. I mean, it's like, he's great. Yeah. I want to be great, you know.

And if people have thrown your name in the same sentence as greats in a positive way i'll take it and just keep practicing perfect attitude man you know what i mean yeah that's perfect yeah what kind of music are you into um what am i into uh i at the moment i I'm into southern hip-hop. Really? Yeah. Speaking of Cadillacs and stuff, I used to drive around. I don't know if y'all got the chopped and screwed stuff, but I used to listen to DJ Screw.

What's the chopped and screwed stuff? Swish a house. It's like, it's like, it's like, the music, it's like, it's just slowed down and kind of, you know, like they'll take a lyric and like on a turntable and chop it up and like repeat something or whatever. And it's, it's really kind of heady, trippy stuff. So I used to, you know, to listen to that all the time. So I just recently kind of got back into listening to things like that. I got Paul Wall's record, Slim Thug.

I listen to Big Crit. So just like Texas Southern stuff. I don't know if it's me missing. Paul Wall's the white dude with braces, right? He's got a grill. He's got a grill. He's got a grill. Sorry, I get confused. Oh, shit.

It's a little bit different. But yeah, so I've been listening. I don't know if it's like Texas. Yeah, there he is. He's got braces. He's got some diamond braces. So how does he eat corn on the cob? That's my question. I don't know. I's like Texas. Yeah, there he is. His braces. Yeah. Braces. So what is, how does he eat corn on the cob? That's my question.

I don't know. I think. Do those come out? I think you take them out. I think you take them out. Yeah. Yeah. That's like some shit he wears like a dental dam or no, that's when you eat some dangerous

pussy. That's what a dental dam's for, right? It's for eating dangerous pussy. That is a, which by the way, if you use that, kill yourself. If you're even thinking about going down on a girl and you have to throw a fucking tarp over it first, you really... You've made some terrible choices and you're probably never going to recover. Stop.

Oh, man. Right? I mean, come on. If that's where it's at, well, you'll kiss her, but you won't eat her pussy, you stop. Yeah. This is chaos. It's gone too far at that point. Yeah.

You're living your life completely wrong. You need an intervention. You need psychedelics or something. There you go. Psychedelics. There you go. Yeah. It's been a long time for me on that.

Oh, really? Mm-hmm. We can help you. Jamie can. He knows people. Right? No, passing it off on him in case the cops are listening. I heard they're listening.

Yeah, right? Well, it's getting closer and closer to being legal, man. I mean, they just released some new financial stats on the amount of money that they're making off medical marijuana. new financial stats on the amount of money that they're making off medical marijuana. If they can really establish that this is like a nationwide way that people can make a ton of money off taxes and turn economies around like they have in Denver. I mean, they turn the economy in Denver around. Do you perform there a lot? Not a lot.

I'm trying to get there more. Yeah, but I've done Belly Up a couple times and done some Red Rocks out there. Oh, man. Yeah, a couple times. I love it. What a beautiful venue that is, huh? Yeah, it's great. But, I mean, the vibe is killer.

It's a great experience as far as all that. Yeah. Well, the Denver vibe is like some new American Amsterdam type shit or something. It's crazy. It's this amazing city now. I mean, it went from being this cowboy city that was filled with really cool people to somewhere, I think, in the early 2000s. I don't remember what the year it was. They decriminalized marijuana in the city of Denver.

They just went fucking. We're just not arresting anybody for it. It's just stupid. They're like, you can have all your state laws. You can have all your national laws. We're just not going to anybody for it. It's just stupid. They're like, you can have all your state laws. You can have all your national laws. We're just not going to arrest people for it. Okay, we're done. And so they would tell us that when we were working there.

We're like, what? They're like, yeah, they don't care. You can smoke pot. I'm like, really? Like, yeah, they won't arrest you. They publicly said they won't arrest you. So that was the first stepping point. And then when it became legal, and now they make more money from it than they do

from alcohol which is incredible they make more money in tax because the taxes are very high like it's 39 taxes for recreational marijuana but nobody gives a fuck because it's still way cheaper than alcohol like you could get ten dollars with a weed and be fucked up for the entire day that's true you know i mean you take one five dollar pot candy so what it's 39 taxes what is that so that makes it what eight bucks so then you then you take that one pot candy and you're barbecued right that's one jameson yeah exactly it's one drink it's like not even close yeah so like economically it's a great thing for the city and once once that sort of sets in that we've been lied to about that and then all these new studies are coming out um about the the benefits of different psychedelics for ptsd

john hopkins did a long-term study on psilocybin they're doing new studies on psilocybin with people that are terminally ill and people that are uh they're getting towards the end of life you know older folks and it's just alleviated tension the worry and fear of death and in a beautiful way and then they'll realize like hey you know we can profit off this shit like this is this is more money that can be generated to help the school systems to fix the roads to hire new cops, to change the way we address and interface with these things and stop criminalizing them. Right. Yeah, I totally agree.

I'm not as educated on all that as I would like to be, but I feel like once that door gets opened up, it would be a lot more beneficial than it is, he said, to be hurting. Yeah. Well, we're just stuck in the momentum of an ignorant past. That's what it is. You know what I'm saying? What kind of psychedelics have you experimented with, Gary Clark Jr.? I've spent a...

Why are you looking at me like that? I started sweating I look like I could be a cop yeah I was like oh man what did I walk into hold on a minute yeah I spent a little time I love psychedelic mushrooms

it's been a long time but I definitely have experimented. I feel like I've gained some things from those experiences. That's about it. That's a good one, though. Mushrooms and weed. Yeah.

They're both excellent combinations. I love it. Well, Texas is a great place for it, too, because Texas, there's a lot of mushrooms that grow wild out there. Yeah, we used to kind of have parties where we would run around and go pick them. Did you really? Yeah, it was kind of gross. Picking them off cow shit? Yeah, it was disgusting.

How did you know they were the right ones, though? It's the group of people I surrounded myself with. People that my mom said you should stay away from them. Those mycologists. Yeah. So it was just kind of like a... I was hanging with the... The right crowd.

The right crowd. The right crowd. Yeah, definitely. It turns out to be the right crowd. Right. The right crowd, the ones your mom probably told you should hang out with, they're on fucking antidepressants right now, freaking out, hitting midlife, wondering what the fuck they're doing with themselves, having children, being trapped in some job where they're, you know, most likely. The people that go the way that everybody wanted us to go, like whether it's a lawyer or successful businessman, they're stressed the fuck out,

working long, crazy hours. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, I feel like regardless of,

or despite the, uh, the tension that I had, I mean, I grew up kind of like very strict, very, um, you know, I of like very strict very you know I was raised like Baptists you know very straight very strict family military so

any of that was you know completely taboo and I would that would be my ass if they found out anything about it but for some reason I felt like I wanted to break out and and discover on my own you know what i mean and not kind of not be locked into what was just laid out for me you know yeah and um so yeah you're right it turned out being the right crowd and you're doing great that's just seems to be a common theme suppression leads to you know trying to alleviate that suppression by this not listening by just going crazy by exploring taking chances oftentimes like the most strict upbringings but deliver a child that is like more prone to rebellion and i just kids

don't like to be told what the fuck to do. Yeah. Yeah, you're there. It's normal. Don't tell me what to do. I'm going to do exactly the opposite. Yeah, and I'm sure you're probably going to impart that into your own children too because you kind of remember. I certainly do with my children. I remember being told what to do and it just drives me fucking crazy. People don't like it.

They don't mind rules if the rules make sense. Like, hey, don't stick a fork into your electric socket because you could fucking die. Right. Oh, okay. That's a big one at my house right now. How old's your kid? Just turned one. Oh, yeah.

Figured out how to open the door and walk like within two days. Boy or girl? Boy. Yeah, they're mobile, man. It's like, boy. Yeah, Jesus. Yeah. They start checking.

Plus, they wake up. They don't say shit. And you might be sleeping. And they're like, let me just fucking check out what's going on in this house. Yeah. Why is that cord stuck in the wall? Pop. Hmm, there's some holes in there.

You know, some other shit would fit in there, like coins. You know, and then they start sticking things in there. Blowing my mind right now. Anyway. Yeah. They're fascinating mind right now. Anyway. Yeah. They're fascinating. They're little people, you know? But, yeah, I'm trying to definitely be conscious of that as he grows.

And I wouldn't mind questioning why. Yeah. There's the whole because. Right. Because I said questioning why. Yeah. That was the whole because. Right. Because I said, yeah. Yeah. I can't do that. Yeah.

I can't do that. It drives me fucking nuts. Of course. I have a theory on all that stuff. I think that every generation gathers up the information of how the previous generation fucked up and as long as there's no cataclysmic disasters and we're not living in mad max times where it's like desperado days and everyone's fending for themselves and it's just about survival then things just keep getting better right well now you can pull out your mobile device and, you know, figure out what's really happening, you know?

Yeah. And that's kind of a trip. Oh, yeah. I mean, to kind of grow up and just not really know, not have access like we have access now. I mean, it still blows my mind like that I forget sometimes that if I want to know something I can just Google yeah and I mean yeah that's it's amazing yeah yes I saw something you're talking about these Google glasses yeah I like you know these whole being these I don't know

what it is. My buddy Chris was trying to tell me about it as well. Well, there's a bunch of different kinds. There's the regular Google Glasses, which a lot of people have seen, which is a very small lens that sits on mock frames. It looks like a glass frame without any glasses in it, and then there's one small window. But that didn't really catch on.

So what they're working on now is contact lenses that do the same thing and but the google the glass thing you had like a little swipe thing and you could like swipe left and right and move it around like so you could go like i could say i could google gary clark images and i would see in that little tiny window images of you and i could just swipe through them you could say navigate to um the hollywood bowl and it would take it would show you google maps how to get to the hollywood bowl and it would talk to you in your ear but people didn't like it because it looked goofy and and when people were wearing them other people got pissed off like are you filming me like what are you doing because you could film with them too so now they're they've moved to contact lenses which they haven't really released yet but they're

working on them and then there's another one that's way crazier which is like goggles these are like ski goggles and when you put these motherfuckers on you're going to be able to play video games in 3d space you're going to have like three-dimensional holograms around you that's the thing that's what i was wondering about so called magic leap or no magic leap is a one magic leap in the hololens by microsoft that's the one with the goggles right the hololens but yeah what do you think about that it's crazy this is just step one i've actually been talking about this on stage recently because i'm actually kind of freaked out about it that that we're going to enter a world within the next hundred years where artificial reality is indistinguishable from

regular reality. It's the matrix. It's a hundred percent going to happen. If we don't blow ourselves up and we don't die from disease, if we don't get hit by an asteroid, we're going to be able to figure out a way to trick the mind into thinking it's experiencing things that it's not experiencing whether how long it takes is just subjective but whatever the amount of time it is in the history of the universe or the history of this planet it's a blink and in one blink you're not going to be able to tell whether reality is real or not you're going to be able to plug into something and you're going to be able to have artificial experiences so like we could do this yeah hey yeah we might be doing it right now that's what's fucked up about it when when scientists study artificial reality and they study what they call computer simulation theory the the real mind fuck is it's hard to tell whether or not this is a

simulation and that it's very likely that it could be that our entire universe could be some sort of a massive simulation that we're experiencing it might not even be like a computer simulation it might be some sort of a simulation that's going on like at a cellular level like some sort of a mass hallucination. Wow. Yeah. I mean, these are not my theories, by the way. Yeah, yeah. I think about that.

These are not, you know, my ideas. Wow. Yeah. I don't even know what to say. Well, just think about what you said, right, about Google, right, about being able to go to your phone and have all the answers. When you were a kid, that was magic. That was magic. The idea behind that was insane just 20 years ago, 1996.

The idea of being able to do that was insane. Everybody'd be like, what in the fuck are you talking about? You're going to be able to reach into your phone. You're going to be able to touch a piece of glass. You don't even have to touch it. You press a button, you talk to it and it'll tell you anything you need to know. Like, what? How the fuck is that possible? You're going to be able to watch videos on it. Shut the fuck up. You're going to be able to watch movies on it. You're going to be able to

play hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of music on it. It'll sound beautiful. And it'll all be a thing that's so slim and sleek it fits right in your pocket. Like, we're already living in some crazy movie that they didn't even predict in Star Trek. Yeah. Star Trek, they had walkie-talkies.

Remember? That's crazy. It is crazy. I'm just getting old. What is this, Jamie? Microsoft added a new update to what HoloLens is going to look like. This is what they think watching sports will be like in the future. Kind of just like what watching football, a football game might.

Oh, you'd be able to watch it in front of you? Yeah, all sorts of, like, players. You can have players and stats pop up in your, like, living room and get extra. It looks really cool. So everyone's just going gonna sit down and put these goggles on instead of having a television or with the television so you'll have extra stuff with the tv look at this i could only imagine what like the ufc event watching that would be like you know i mean you get extra stats on the players well be really cool also probably we'll

put a big camera on the referee so you'd be inside of it. Or watch them from their view, you know what I mean? Watch them from any player's view if you choose to, if they can pull that off. Well, they probably could do that with players. They wouldn't be able to do it with fighters. But with Pride, they used to have a camera that they would put on the referees. It was this crazy, dorky thing. It was like real big and clunky.

It was like a camera that sat next to their head. And they would weary thing. It was like real big and clunky. It was like a camera that sat next to their head and they would, uh, they would wear that thing. And it was kind of cool to see it from their, their perspective. But that was fairly rudimentary considering it was like early 2000s. Like what this is going to be is going to be bananas, but then you're going to hang out with goggles on, you know, your friends have to have goggles. Oh man i don't know i guess it's it's kind of like the silent disco thing what's the silent disco thing silent disco is like where people like a whole bunch of people hang out in a room or a club and they have headphones on and there's like there's djs and you can decide if you want to go with dj a or dj b and so there's a bunch of people just like dancing in a silent room with

headphones on really like having a great time and it's like do you want a drink what oh is this it right here you showing me this jamie so there's these people they're dancing around Oh, is this it right here? Are you showing me this, Jamie? So there's these people that are dancing around, and they just have different wireless headsets on? Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, this is crazy.

Everyone's just listening to the same thing. There's just no one outside can hear you. Right. Well, that's good to your neighbors. That's awesome in that way. That's great for your neighbors. Yeah, you don't have to be rude. Because it's like that one asshole on your block who has a party,

but his music tastes sucks. There was this party that they had near my neighborhood about 10 years ago, and it was the most fucking depressing, like trapped in the, it was like, I'm trying to remember what kind of music there, but it was like Captain and Tennille or some shit. It was so bad. It was just like, like, how are they cranking this? Like, what the fuck are they doing? You want to show up at their house with like some, well, that's a bad example. I can't remember what it was because I blocked it out.

Childhood molestation. It was so bad. They were playing this fucking terrible, but it was like this asshole was playing it loud. It was so loud, there's no way he was enjoying it. He was enjoying showing off that he was having a party with this shitty music that him and his dying friends were playing. What do you listen to? I listen to a lot of classic rock. A lot.

Like, as I get older, it just seems like I'm becoming that old dude that listens to classic rock. Like, I listen to a lot of Leonard Skinner, a lot of Hendrix. I've been listening to a lot of, boy, just almost anything from the 60s and the early 70s is what a lot of what I listen to. Listen to a lot of Creedence lately. Creedence. Yeah.

That's good. Fogarty's voice used to kind of mess me up, but I've come to accept and appreciate the tone. It comes from a heartfelt place. When I was younger, I couldn't. What's he saying yeah you gotta there's certain music that you gotta revisit as you hit different stages in life i think there's certain music that i wasn't into and then i'll go back now and now i can get into it credence is one of those yeah like my friends in high school were in the credence

yeah in high school, people were listening to the Houston Swisher House, Paul Wall. Mm-hmm. That's all like cough syrup music, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, so

it was that UGK outcast. A lot of Dave Matthews. A lot of them. Dave Matthews? Jesus Christ. Yeah, I went to this school.

Anthony Bourdain just shut this podcast off right now. He's like, that's it. We're done here. But it was different. Corey Morrow, Robert Earl Keene. It was different. Cory Morrow, Robert Earl Keen, like a lot of it was different. I mean, like, and some of it I've come to appreciate, and some of it I've just kind of left behind. I like Outkast.

Outkast, they do a lot of experimental shit. Love them. Yeah, they're great. They do a lot of interesting. Didn't that one dude from Outkast, wasn't he supposed to play Jimi Hendrix? He did. Yeah, he did that movie. I never heard about it.

No. Yeah. I never heard a thing about it. Really? It just came and went. Did you see it? Yeah, I saw it out here. How was it?

It was good as far as the story. I mean, I felt like Andre played Hendrix great. There was a lot of stuff that I didn't know. Wasn't that where they had to do different music because they couldn't use the Hendrix music? Yeah, so that for me was kind of fucked me up a little bit. A little bit? Because it was recreated.

And then being a guitar player wasn't quite hard so it really kinda like it really kinda it messed me up but I mean the story was was great

and I think Andre did a great job and the cast did a great job considering what they you know were working with but there was no Hendrix music you know

how could they should have scrapped the project, or paid up, paid the family. You gotta pay the family. If you wanna make a fucking documentary, or a biopic,

about arguably the greatest guitarist that's ever lived, you gotta use his fucking music, and gotta give his parents the money, or whoever, whoever's alive, give them the money. You gotta pay them. It's the only way you're gonna do it right,

otherwise you're gonna get a movie like that, where we don't talk about it. And it just goes in and out. Yeah. The guitar thing must drive you crazy, though, when you know he's not really playing that. I couldn't handle it. I couldn't handle it. Because me, on a much lesser scale, I'm not a professional pool player.

But when I watch someone in a movie and I know they can't really play pool, it's very obvious. You see the way a guy's holding a stick the way the stick moves in their arm it's like have you ever seen someone hold a cigarette that doesn't really smoke and you could tell yeah like a smoker can tell like almost immediately when someone doesn't actually smoke or at least someone who is not aware of how people who smoke smoke I'm sure an actor can figure out how to smoke like a smoker a lot easier than someone can figure out how to play guitar and mimic it. Right. Because when I see someone who can't play pool in a movie

and you're like, you know, pool hall junkies or something like that, I'm like, shit, get that fucking thing off the television. It drives me crazy. Like, that guy can't play. He can't play. He's doing it all wrong. He's looking at his bridge. Look at the way he's holding it.

This is bullshit. And that's something real similar. I mean, real simple, rather. It's just the movement of an arm and i could tell but for fingers and keys and the way a guy's sounding i mean there must be bananas to you yeah i uh yeah it drove me nuts i mean i don't know what to say i was like fuck somebody fix it yeah what the fuck man how do they not have like a coordinator i don't know what to say i was like fuck somebody fix it yeah what the fuck man how do they not have like a coordinator i don't know i don't know i don't know but you know unless you're bullshit and unless it's like a crazy kung fu movie like obviously i have a connection to martial arts where if i know someone's doing something that's not really gonna work it'll

drive me crazy yeah but if he's like like fucking pulling people's hearts out and flying through the air and throwing sidekicks through buildings i'm willing to suspend this belief you know but you can't do that for jimmy hendrix in a fucking biopic yeah that's true i got a question for you one of my favorite shows growing up was kung fu david caret yeah how did you feel about all bullshit yeah yeah i loved it when i was a kid though right but you watch it now you're like what but it was basically fighting people didn't know how to fight like there was no one he fought like some dude came out it was a legit muay thai fighter started kicking his legs david carotene you know pull his throat out and killed him. It was like some drunk guy with a beer mug.

Yeah, exactly. I don't think he really learned Kung Fu for that show. I don't know, but it didn't seem like he did. It seemed like he had very little that seemed like a real martial arts move. Yeah, I don't... I recently went back a couple years ago and, like, bought the series and watched the whole thing.

Because as a kid, I loved it. It was like, oh, my dad would put it on. Here you go, son, learn something, you know, lessons about how not to be an asshole. Yeah. And so, yeah, but I watched it recently, and I was wondering, I was like, what are these guys? You know, guys who, like like really know what's up. How do you feel about this? Because I don't know.

You know what I mean? Right, right. So. Yeah. No one respects it. Okay. But it was a good show in terms of it was interesting. Like if you take out the martial arts element of it, it's an interesting show. You got this guy who's raised in like a monastery and then he's wandering through the Old West.

It's kind of a cool premise. You know, the premise behind it is really interesting. You know, and he was like this real calm, peaceful guy who wasn't an asshole at all. It could not have been nicer. And that was a unique character because there'd really never been anybody on television that was like that just like this enlightened peaceful guy you know he had long hair and shit he's just kind of a hippie and he's wandering through life and people keep fucking with him keep fucking with him all right you know it was interesting in that way like it made a lot of people want to pretend they're that guy. I'm sure. I was one of them. I was definitely one of them.

Yeah. Like, how so? How so? Yeah, how were you one of them? I mean, just the attitude, just the, you know, I was waiting for a moment. I wish somebody would so I could quiet Chang Kang down. That's the opposite, though. He wished somebody would be peaceful.

Right, I know. And you're like, I wish somebody would. I know, but I just, I mean, I was a kid, so I could. Right, of course. I loved that. Speaking of being inspired, man, you know, one of my favorite things that I love to do, which I haven't done in a while,

was, you know, up and and watch the UFC you know and get into that and um I was sitting around and starting to kind of feel like a piece of shit drinking too much and whatever and so I was you know looking at these guys you know training and doing what they do so it kind of inspired me to get on my bike and get the heavy bag and get on the weights and do my thing. And I was really into it. I haven't been keeping up for a while and kind of got the gut to show it. I'm working on it. I need to get back on my game is what I'm saying.

Do you want to train while you're in L.A.? Is that what you're saying? I would love to. I'll find you a place. I need to. I need to do something. Well, we'll talk off the air, and I'll get you. Are you interested in taking jiu-jitsu, or what are you interested in doing?

Well, whatever is kind of right for me and my build. And I don't have a whole lot of time, but I'm definitely interested in getting back into it and getting my mind focused. The reality is there's different styles of jiu-jitsu that are great for every build. And when I say different styles, I mean different approaches to jiu-jitsu is so broad. There's so many different techniques and so many different strategies and so many different moves and counter moves that your build is perfect for jiu-jitsu. You're long and tall. You have long arms and long legs. And you can catch people in chokes that a stubby little dude like me can't because I have short arms short legs you know it's different but different builds like mine are dip better for certain positions right like this this guy who

Samar Paul Harris who's he's like me but more exaggerated he's way thicker and more muscular and he just tears people's legs apart he's a leg lock specialist and there's a lot of other guys that are smaller that is like really fast and they're good at taking people's backs like marcello garcia but um there's a lot of tall guys in jujitsu it's there's definitely an advantage there's an advantage of leverage like just mechanical leverage from having long limbs it's good for striking too though man it's good for learning uh striking arts like if i if i had to say like if there's one build that has like the most definitive advantages, I would say tall and long. Because it's harder to hit you because you're further away from me. You can hit me in a place where I can't hit you.

Like how tall are you? 6'4". You're 6'4". I'm 5'8". So you're dealing with all that. You're dealing with eight extra inches. inches so there's eight extra inches between like your head and my head which may or may not translate as far as like uh how long your arms are how long your legs are but definitely there's a there's at least a few inches of advantage which means like if we were both throwing punches at

the same time you would hit me before i would hit you and i probably would never hit you because of that because you would hit me like as i was throwing a punch and I'd get fucked up. That's a big advantage. John Jones, the UFC former light heavyweight champion, he's the best at using, because he's a big, tall dude, and he's the best at using that advantage. It's one of the best advantages of being long and tall. Right.

Yeah, I'm ready. You ready? You're moving your jacket around. I need to do something. I know I'm bawling at my fist while you're talking. I'm like, yeah, let's do this. Well, it's a great way to blow off energy and stress. Yeah, I need that as well. Yeah.

Definitely. People get addicted to it. Like we were talking about Bourdain. He didn't even start doing it until he was 58, 57, 58, and now he does it every day. He does jujitsu every day. He loves it. He's obsessed with it. Yeah.

A lot of musicians get into it. I know a lot of musicians that are into jiu-jitsu. Because it becomes like a, martial arts really are an art form. It doesn't seem an art form to the outsider because people, they say, oh, it's just fighting. It's just brutality. But the reality is there's way, way, way more people who are into martial arts who never get into a fight ever than, than people who use it either in competition or use it for self-defense. It's a, it's, it's a form of art. It's an expression. And when you watch someone pull off a move, it's beautiful. It's just, it's one of those things that seems to be only beautiful for

people who understand it, but for people who understand it, it's amazing. Yeah. No, I mean, I can respect it. I, I kind of understand amazing yeah no i mean i can respect it i i kind of understand what's going on i can appreciate it like you know someone playing a nice solo or something and executing it well yeah i can kind of get that you know the the art the what it takes to pay attention and be in that moment and and you know uh execute it's a bunch it's that it's a bunch of other factors too it's setting up an attack that either the person couldn't anticipate or couldn't figure out what to do in time and then it locks in and then once it locks in you're like oh it's beautiful it's like it's like a painting or a work of art or a masterful guitar solo

or any of those things. Art is your dedication and your focus and then the expression and the results of that dedication and focus in a way where, like if I watch someone pull off a move that I don't know how to do, it's particularly beautiful to me because I'm like, oh, shit, look how he did that. Like there's certain moves that I'll have to replay like over and over and over again like i'll watch certain setups like over and over and over again until i get it into my head and and i didn't there's so many different ways to move the

body that there's a lot of like i've been doing jujitsu since 1996 and there's still a bunch of moves that i don't know i don't understand and i And I have to go, oh, how did he do that? How did he do that? But today, like we're talking about with Google, we're so lucky that we could just go to YouTube videos. And one of the beautiful things about jiu-jitsu is it used to be that martial arts were like a secret. This is the secret death touch. And nobody would tell you that secret death touch. It didn't exist.

It was bullshit. death touch and nobody would tell you that secret death touch but it didn't exist it was bullshit the reality of jujitsu is almost every move people are dying to explain to people because people love learning new shit people that are jujitsu artists love learning new stuff so people that are jujitsu artists that have a new move love to put that move online it's a big part of the community a huge part of the community is sharing and openness. So everybody does seminars, and everybody teaches everybody everything. But in the early days, it wasn't like that. Even the early days of jiu-jitsu, what happened was in 1993, when the UFC was created, people first started to see jiu-jitsu. And they're like, what the fuck?

But there was a lot of moves like triangles and things along those lines where I had friends that would take classes at certain schools and they would say, hey, you know, Hoist Gracie tapped out Dan Severin with a triangle. How do I do that? And the teacher was like, you're not ready for that yet. Like, I can't teach you that yet. That's a black belt technique or that's a purple belt technique or whatever. And they just – people like turned off to it. And then they found other more unconventional, open-minded schools that immediately taught everybody everything. And those are the schools that became prosperous.

Those schools were really successful. And the schools that held people back, they never produced champions. They never produced any real notable jujitsu players. And the open-minded experimental schools, those are the ones that blew up. It's really interesting in that way. The free exchange of information overwhelmingly won out in the world of jiu-jitsu. That makes sense to me. It does, right? Yeah. same kind of appreciation for like uh like the art martial arts comedy music um you know anything like that like i can appreciate the hard work and everything that goes back into so you feel the same way about martial arts it's like comedy or do you approach it the same way or well um in some

ways yeah in some ways it's it In some ways it's, it's about practice, dedication, application, and reality. Like if something's not funny, it's just not funny. If people don't laugh, they just don't laugh. And if a technique doesn't work, it just doesn't work. You know, if you can't pull it off, if somebody chokes you, they just choked you, right? You know, that's it. You could be a 20 year black belt, right? And some dude catches you in a guillotine. He's only been doing juj-jitsu for six months. But someone teaches him how to do this. Grab your arm like that.

Pull it underneath someone's neck. Wrap your legs around him and squeeze. And you can't get out? Well, he tapped you. Even if he's only been doing jiu-jitsu for six months and you've been doing jiu-jitsu for 30 years. It's still real. If a guy taps you, they tap you. It's one of the things I love about pool.

The ball either goes in the hole or it doesn't go in the hole. It doesn't matter if you either knock it in the hole or you don't. There's no, I almost made that shot. That doesn't mean jack shit. You know? It doesn't mean anything. Oh, man, I'm that asshole who says that. Well, we all say it, but, you know, the reality of the actual winning of the game, right?

Right. It's a personality thing. Sometimes people can get really far on a bullshit personality and a lot of bravado and a lot of bragging and a lot of false stories. And then the actual application in life is they've sort of skirted through with all the dance moves and all the personality. But they don't have any real substance to it. That doesn't work in jiu-jitsu, just like it doesn't really work in comedy. Comedy, like, personality accounts

for a certain amount of the audience accepting you, but ultimately, if your concepts aren't there and if you don't have, like, a good setup, if you don't know how to deliver it in a way that people are going to, like, it's going to easily enter into their mind and they're going to, like, carry along, then it either works or it doesn't. And there's some parallel truths in that, in martial arts and in comedy in that way.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very intrigued by all of it. So, you know, that's why I'm asking because i'm very curious i want to get in there well all complex systems whether it's music uh writing um creating a movie anything complex things are fascinating to me too because i just you know like i've never made a movie but when i see like cgi animators i go watch this documentary on guys making animated scenes for films like special effects scenes. And I think to myself, wow, that is fascinating.

Like they're creating an artificial world. And inside that artificial world, they have these creatures moving. And they have these people that have to put on these motion capture suits and go through the motions pretending they're interacting with these things that aren't even there and then someone has to piece it's amazing to me it's amazing to me but i'm not gonna do it i don't have any time well no but but i i look at that the same way i kind of look at music or the same way i look at writing or comedy or anything so it's fascinating to me watching someone go after something and and and put it together and make something that is almost unfathomable take place. Whether it's a creation of an album, whether it's a comedy special, whether it's someone writes an amazing book. I love when people get shit done.

Yeah. Yeah. I do too. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Well, as artists, right, like does that, like as an artist, does that inspire you when you see, like if you go to see a great movie or read a great book or something like that, does that inspire you to want to create?

Yeah, it doesn't inspire me to create a, write a book. Right, right, right. But I think I kind of know what my lane is at this point. Yeah. You know, I try to stay at it. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I'll definitely go see a movie or read, you know, and it'll get my creative juices flowing

and, you know, inspire me to just be better and try and contribute. You know what I mean? Contribute something good or be positive and make myself feel something or make somebody else feel something. I don't know. It does something to me, definitely. It's hard to describe. I still can't describe what it is that makes this creative thing click or explain how I do what I do. But definitely seeing movies or hearing great musicians,

great guitar players, it'll freak me out. And I'll go, oh, shit, my ego gets involved a little bit, you know what I mean? I'm like, this is on the hunger. But, you know, it's like, okay, I respect that. Let me go get on my game and do my thing. There's this, oh, man, there's this guitar player down in Austin, Texas, who I haven't seen in a while. And his name's Derek O'Brien.

He's one of the greatest blues guitar players in the world. Played, backed up Muddy Waters, Albert Collins, Albert King, everybody. He's like in the house band at Anton's club. I hadn't seen him in a while, so I go back home, and I got my little reputation. People are like, oh, you know, this, that, that, that. And I'm like, all right. I know my strengths and weaknesses, but I was feeling good about myself.

And then I got up on stage and let this, you know, this guy was just ripping it. And I just, in that moment, I was like, fuck. I was like, I ain't got shit on this guy. You know what I mean? It was a nice reality check. So I immediately went back and started to shed. And I've been kind of doing it since.

Yeah, that's a beautiful thing about being around inspiring artists. It's one of the cool things about being in a place like in L.A. or Nashville, or if you're a musician, if that's your style of music, or Austin or anywhere where there's a good group of people that are also doing the same thing. It's like you use those people, and they use you, and everybody's like fuel for each other. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. thing so you use those people and they use you and everybody's like fuel for each other mm-hmm yeah yeah definitely that's I'm starting to kind of figure out the scenes here in in LA a little bit more as well you know I went out the other night and had like this sitting in jazz musicians and you know really like

the best of the best you know people are top of their game. Folks who can read charts. You know what I mean? When you, do you practice? Like, do you go to like, are there certain clubs that a musician like you can go and just fuck around with new stuff? Like for standups, we'll go to the comedy store and we'll practice

or we'll go to the improv and we'll practice like if i have some new bits that i'm working on right i will go there and i'll air them out right um yeah in in austin where i'm from there's a spot every sunday i'll have a blues jam you know and uh so yeah yeah you would either go sit in with um people that you don't know haven't played with before or whatever and you know try out some new chords maybe you learned something fancy that could you know transition chord you know to you know go from the one to the five on the turnaround and the slow blues whatever and the key to c whatever you know go from the one to the five on the turnaround and the slow blues whatever and the key you see whatever you know so you go work that out and um or you bring your squad i mean me and

my buddy zapata would he plays in my band like we would go up sometimes and you know know a drummer that kind of knew how we flowed and a bass player who could pick up on something like we got this new track we're about to fuck people up with this and either it would work or it wouldn't but yeah there was those places and um yeah that's kind of the fuel you know to be in those spots and be around other players and get up and do their thing um yeah that's there's nothing like that. Yeah. So for you, when you create music, is it, like, do you just get an idea? Like, what is the creation process from? Does it vary?

Or is there a specific creation process from the moment you get an idea to putting it to paper or to remembering it and making a song and putting the beat to it and putting the sounds to it? It's kind of an unorganized mess. I haven't figured out a process and I don't think it's a mess. I think it just comes naturally. Like I'll have a guitar and I might you know have a chord progression and it'll just kind of stick and then

I'll put a melody over it. I'll be singing something around the house and, you know, grab the guitar and put that together. Or, you know, with technology, I love being able to travel. And, you know, I travel a lot. So on airplane or on the bus, I'll pull out an MPC or something and kind of put in drum tracks and build from there whatever so it it all just kind of depends on where i am and what i have access to and um

uh but now having a little one being at home i gotta like take advantage of my time it's like oh you have an hour here go try and make something happen right right so it's ever ever changing it but it just whatever feels right you know i don't think if if it becomes too much of a formula then i think it'll lose its uh it's raw organic kind of what i got into it for right just kind of not knowing and not not having any rules or you know so yeah it it just depends that's a real common thing that you said that a lot of people say that once they had a kid they realize that their free time is actually precious so because kids demand so much time babies demand so much, and you just really don't have much, you start going, okay, the kid's asleep.

Let's get to work. You know, and you actually get more done because you have children than you did when you were free. Oh, man. I would sit around and, you know, I was sitting and living by myself. I'd be working on a song for eight hours. I'd have a loop playing. You know, and just, yeah, let me go get some food.

I'll come back to that. Maybe something awesome. Maybe I'll get like the genius idea or whatever. And, yeah, it's been two months working on one song. You know, you don't have that much time anymore. So it's a blessing, you know, kind of like know how that much time anymore so yeah it's blessing you know kind of like get your shit together you're gonna do it or you're not yeah Louis CK was the first person to tell me that I didn't it was

so counterintuitive I was like really he's like yeah I actually I get a lot more done now that I have children than I did when I was free to do whatever I wanted he's like now I'm just under the gun all the time. So that's how I get things done. Yeah, well, creatively, I guess. Yeah. For me, I mean, we spend so much time

out on the road. Like, we're gone a lot. So it's, I kind of need my quiet time. And there's not really a lot of quiet time with a bunch of dudes hanging around, you know?

Smelling like ass. You know? Yeah. Yeah, it's just a lot, and I can't really function that way. So I kind of have to be home in order to be creative and do that. When you go on the road, do you do, like, long stretches? Like, you go on the road for, like, two months at a time and have a bunch of dates laid out for you? we i mean we take off here next week and we're pretty much gone

until maybe august or something whoa i mean we'll have a few days here and there i'll come back home and you know we'll be so do you bring your family here and there where I'll come back home and, you know, we'll be. So do you bring your family with you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'll come with me sometimes. And, yeah, like we just, they just came with us. We were in Australia and, you know, just did the whole trip, you know. Dad's on the planes and everything.

Woo, that flight. Yeah. That flight wrecks you. It's not my favorite. It's not my favorite either. I kind of that flight. Yeah. That flight wrecks you. It's not my favorite. It's not my favorite either. I kind of hate it. Yeah. Somebody just offered me

a trip to New Zealand, a vacation trip to New Zealand. I was like, bitch, that's not a vacation. Nah, that's work. That's work. 16 hours in a fucking plane or whatever the hell it is.

Like, come on. There's nothing vacation-y about that. Yeah. It's beautiful over there. You know, but by the time you can get over there, you're tired and you nothing vacation-y about that. It's beautiful over there. You know, but by the time you can get over there, you're tired and you just want to go back home. I would think that it would be a vacation for someone who didn't travel all the time. But for someone like you or someone like me who's always traveling, it's like, what?

Yeah. Yeah. I kind of like to be at home. Yeah. I'm kind of boring that way. It's like I could be at my house for like three days straight. Yeah, but that's also because you travel so much. It's in direct contrast to that.

So it's a welcome change. Right, but I got guys on my crew who will get right off tour and just go hit it. Really? Yeah. Single guys though? Nah. Really? Yeah, like get off the plane from a tour and then just like bust out my boy went to cuba

well like going on tour for for it seemed like what forever and then he's like chilling in cuba like wow that seems exhausting you know cuba is one of those places though i think i need to go to i think i need to go to it before it changes it's yeah so soon yeah because right now there's no internet they don't have any internet you can't keep track of your emails it's like a couple spots where you get like 3g my boy chris krishna found him yeah how he found him he found him he was like i love it what's up chris he goes he goes i'm going down the cube i'm not going to be able to i'm not going to be able to uh get in touch with you um and i was like all right man you know i get it cool have fun and then i get this call from this weird number he's like

yo i found the one spot i was like man why don't you just enjoy you know chill out just be off the grid for a minute you know it you know yeah it's hard for people it's one of the things i like most about uh hunting trips like a lot of them you're in places where you don't have a choice you're in the middle of a mountain there's nothing up here dude nothing you might be able to get to the top of a mountain send someone a text message right they might not be able to reply and they might not even get it they might just get lost in the air somewhere yeah that's kind of where i need to go to go write my songs and stuff just get out so hunting trips dude i saw this thing of you it's like this big ass what was it like a moose oh moose leg yeah i was like walking through the airport, walking through somewhere, and I was like, what the fuck?

I felt like this small of a man. I was like, dude, this guy's beast mode right now. Well, that was intentionally, they wanted to make something that was like as in your face about the realities of meat as possible. Right. is like as in your face about the realities of meat as possible right you know i got into this with some people on twitter the other day because i like i like to troll vegans occasionally i see because someone was making they were making some stupid shit saying that saturated fats are terrible for you like they're no they're not they're not there's scientific studies that show saturated fats are actually healthy for you and important for you. But people think that if you hunt or if you're involved somehow in animals,

sometimes in eating animals, that you're a cruel person, that you want to hurt animals, you want to cause pain and suffering. No, I don't want to have anything to do with factory farming because I don't want to be involved in that. But the animals that I'm out hunting, if i don't get them a wolf's getting them or a coyote's getting them or a mountain lion's getting them like they're not living forever they have a very short window of time where they're they're alive they're if they're if they make it if a deer makes it to six years old that is a really old deer and most of them

they die long before that what i'm doing is'm, I'm dipping my feet into that wild world and I'm pulling something out of it. And that's where I get all my protein from or all my animal protein. I don't, I love animals. I think they're amazing. I have cats at home. I have dogs. It's not a cruelty to animals thing.

And this is something that I used to think of when I thought of hunters. Like I saw some television show where his hunter had a dog and he's petting his dog. I was like, how's this motherfucker differentiate between this dog and some deer? He's going to like shoot his lungs out. Like how that's kind of fucked up. This guy's weird. But then I got it.

Like the dog is a killer too, man. Everything, life eats life. And it's not a matter of being cruel it's a matter of sustainability and being alive then there's the reality of hunting that not everybody can hunt not everybody has the time not everybody wants to especially in the the world that we've grown up in with cities and something that took me several years to sort of get into it and really understand what it's all

about and educate myself and then once i educate myself, one of the most compelling things was how ignorant most people are about the facts of hunting, about the facts of wildlife, about wildlife management and about just where their food comes from. And even about how many animals die making grain. How many, when people say, you know, I only eat, say you know i only eat you know i only eat quinoa and fucking alfalfa guess what that shit's getting chopped up in a combine and it's chewing up bunnies and fawns and rats and mice and sparrows and ground nesting birds and and you're removing the habitat when you're growing food like that for a lot of different wildlife the wildlife gets displaced and the displaced wildlife wind up getting preyed on it's like there's a lot of different wildlife. The wildlife gets displaced and the displaced wildlife wind up getting preyed on.

It's like there's a lot of factors involved in gathering food. And when we're living in cities, we're living in this bizarre natural environment. And when I say cities are a natural environment, they are a natural environment because they're everywhere. They're a natural environment for people. Like anybody says the cities aren't natural, man. Well, how come there's so many of them like what is nature what is a beehive is it a beehive nature a beehive is nature right well that's a fucking b city okay they've created a city they know how to do it they do it everywhere that's the same goddamn thing

people do we create these super complicated beehives we call them cities and we create them all over the world it's not like there's one city and we're like what the fuck is that the cities are everywhere there are people when people figure shit out and they have electricity and they have agriculture then they have surplus and then they they put up fucking walls and make buildings and then boom we got a city and they're everywhere you look i think i there's, there's just some strange detachment from where our food comes from when it's shipped in and trucks all the time. So my, uh, education into the world of hunting, a big part of it was like to try to figure out, like, I try to figure out bizarre things, like things that don't make sense to me. I try to out i try to figure out uh all sorts of weird misconceptions and misunderstandings i this what fascinates me about people that are

involved in cults so it fascinates me by people that have bad conceptions or bad thoughts about psychedelics that are untrue like people think that you know certain things are making gonna make you go crazy and lose your mind what well why is that what makes people makes people, oh, well, there's propaganda films from the 1930s. Well, what started that? Well, it was a guy named William Randolph Hearst who actually profited from marijuana being illegal. Like, oh, okay. And you get, I'm fascinated by shit like that.

So the food thing was always fascinating to me. Like, how can we just go to a store and you get a piece of meat and we have no idea where the fuck this meat came from? We literally just, we don't even care. We throw it in the supermarket, you know, throw it in the cart, go to the supermarket, give that guy a piece of meat and we have no idea where the fuck this meat came from we literally just we don't even care we throw it in the supermarket you know throw it in the cart go to the supermarket give that guy a piece of plastic he runs it through the machine and you're out the door right it's strange it's it's very odd when that's a piece of life yeah i think about that too but i don't hunt but do you eat meat i do i'm guilty completely guilty. Completely. But it's not guilty. It's normal to eat meat.

Everybody, like 90%, this is a fact, of the world eats meat. Right. 90, 95, depending on who you ask. But it's at least 90 of the world eats meat. Even vegetarians. Most vegetarians. Some asshole said to me the other day. It's hilarious.

He goes, I'm 90% vegetarian. And I think, oh, shut the fuck up. You can't say He goes, I'm 90% vegetarian. Shut the fuck up! You can't say that. That's not 90% vegetarian. That's not real. There's no such thing as 90% vegetarian. You are 100% not vegetarian if you eat meat.

That's not 90% vegetarian. He's an asshole. He's a convenient, moral, high ground asshole who's just trying to let everybody know he's better than you because most of the time he doesn't eat meat just fuck you yeah i'll just go ahead and shut the fuck up well he was just trying to be make an argument against hunting and about about people who do it you know it's just he's a fool but it's convenient for people

because they're completely detached. On a daily basis, if you go to your office every day, you wake up in the morning, you have your breakfast, you drive to work, you go to work. At the end of the day,

you go to the gym, you go home, you watch a little television, you crash, you get up in the morning, you do that again, and you do it five days a week. You're left with two fucking days.

Two days. Saturday and Sunday, if you're lucky. And if you have family, those days are spoken for. If you have fucking days two days saturday and sunday if you're lucky and if you have family those days are spoken for if you have friends those days are spoken for if you have hobbies so where's your gathering food come from it's like you you have to make a concerted effort if you really want to be a part of this if you really want to deeply understand where your food comes from you have to make a concerted effort to either grow it or acquire it. Somehow or another

you have to go to a farm and talk to the people that are growing the food and buy it from them. Go to a farmer's market. You can meet them. I go to farmer's markets. It's kind of cool. I like meeting the people that work on the farms. I ask them and talk to them about it. But the meat thing is the big detachment.

Everybody kind of understands. You plant a seed, you water it, a tomato comes out. They kind of get that. But the animal part, the vast majority of people who eat meat just do not understand the whole process. They don't want to know. They just buy a burger. Yeah. I'm starting to know a little bit more and it freaks me out.

It's a freak out. But, you know. It's a freak out. I haven't quite switched over to going out. Or going out and hunting? Yeah, you know. Well, my thought was I was going to do one of two things. I was either going to become a vegan or I was going to become a hunter.

And I became a hunter. Right. And one of the reasons why I became a hunter is, first of all, the food's delicious. It's good for you. And those animals aren't not, they're not living forever. They're not becoming fairies and curing cancer if you don't shoot them. And they're getting eaten by all kinds of shit around them. You're just eating them as well.

It's, um, it's a weird disconnect that we have about where food comes from and life itself. Like life is not permanent. It's, it's temporary. It's, it's here and it's gone. It's fleeting. It should be respected. You know, it should be. And I think one of the best ways to respect these animals and it sounds like total, totally counterintuitive, but as to hunt them and eat them, they become a part of your life they sustain you they you know you you have a deep appreciation for them because they literally sustain you they're part of what makes you live yeah that's that's real yeah but you live in texas a lot of hunting and in austin when you were living there yeah uh a lot of my friends you know they

hunt so you know they're big on it um did you ever want to go with them i i did but i had a i had a couple of experiences with guns when i was younger that kind of freaked me out from that. One of them was me being a kid, and I had a play gun, and I kind of colored the red kid safety thing. Oh, shit. Black? Yeah, me and my buddy. So he had this daisy rifle. I had this little, I don't remember what it was. So we're just messing around, you know,

acting like kids. And then this guy comes driving, and we point the gun at him. And this guy swerves off the road, hits a mailbox, like, crashes his car, gets out. He's like, what the fuck are you guys doing? You know, I'm nine. You know what I mean? He's like, what the fuck are you doing? You could have killed somebody. What the fuck? Well, I You know, I'm nine. You know what I mean? He's like, what the fuck are you doing?

You could have killed somebody. What the fuck? Well, I was just like toys. You know what I mean? And his mom comes out freaking out. And they didn't know that we did it. And my pops was like, you know, you got to understand this, you know, life, death here. This is serious.

You got to understand this guy didn't know that you were playing web. So it kind of freaked me out. And then I went on one hunting trip. And I had a.22, and it kicked me in the shoulder pretty good. A.22 kicked you? Yeah, not a.22. A 12-gauge. A 12-gauge, yeah, yeah. Okay.

So, yeah, it kicked me. And I was like, what? Yeah, no, no. Pussy? No, no, no. That's like saying, man, I shot this slingshot one time. Yeah, it broke my hand. It fucked me up.

No, no. Yeah, it shot this slingshot one time. It broke my hand. You fucked me up. No, no. Yeah, it's about the 12-gauge shot, and it kicked me pretty hard. So I just kind of lost interest, but that was a long-ass time ago. Suzanne from Honey Honey wants to go pig hunting. She's so down. She keeps bringing it up. She's like, when are we going, Joe Rogan? When are we going pig hunting?

She's totally down to do it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, my boy Mike We mike weed that's what he does all the time it was outside um a little outside austin he's always going sending me photos sending me videos well in austin like outside of texas they have a giant problem with pigs yeah they have to hunt them yeah you can you can go to town on them they're everywhere they have no limits you can do it they do them from helicopters. I mean, they have a whole business called Hella Hunting where they take people up in helicopters and they're shooting pigs because it's the only way to eradicate them from farms because there's so many of them.

And they do billions of dollars worth of damage just in Texas in crop destruction every year. They're wild. I mean, there's not enough mountain lions and there's no wolves to kill them. I didn't realize they were so dangerous, too. Oh, they're very dangerous. The big ones, especially. They'll fuck you up.

That's what I heard. That's also why I don't go out there. Yeah, they'll fuck you up. They killed the dad in Game of Thrones, right? The first king, the original king. The one who, her husband, the chick who was fucking her brother in the Game of Thrones, the hot blonde lady. Her husband died because he got killed by a pig.

Wait, is this in the show? I don't know. The show, Game of Thrones. Not in real life. He didn't die. I mean, in the movie, he died from a wild boar. But they get fucking big, too. Yeah, I don't. I mean, mean a 400 pound wild hog is not uncommon that's real i've never seen one of them in real life they're crazy looking they're

all black and they have long snouts and their tusks come out they have these white tusks like when you see one in real life you're like oh you hear him in real life first time life? First time I ever went pig hunting, I was with my friend Steve Rinella. And we're on this farm or this ranch that's not far away from here. It's huge. Biggest ranch in California. 270,000 acres. It's called Tohono Ranch. And we were walking down this road and we heard some snaps and some noises in the bushes.

Like it's a really thick brush. And then we heard these pigs fighting with each other. And they were like demons, man. It was like, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. And they're like no more than 30 yards, 20 yards away from us. They're like right there, and they're duking it out. And they're like, these are monsters, man. They sound like monsters.

They freak me out. More than hunting bears, more than hunting elk. Not more than elk. Elk's probably the biggest freak out because they scream. They bugle and they're like a thousand pounds and they're like majestic like they have trees growing out of their head these giant antlers yeah and did you see the antlers that are in the front they're over by the front door yeah you walked in that's elk those those that's like a thousand pound animal with these gigantic i mean they're they're immense immense majestic animals those

are the biggest freak outs just because you feel like you're hunting some mystical creature where do you find those those were in to hone ranch too one of them was one of those was from to hone ranch one of them was from colorado yeah crazy but the pig thing is uh it's actually look at that fucking thing look at the size of that thing 11 year old hunter bags a 1050 pound wild boar what the fuck just what the fuck first of all with a pistol this is a perspective shot which is actually kind of important because like that boy is way behind that thing he's not like right next to it so if he's behind it by just you know six or seven feet and the camera's on the ground they're shooting it at eye level it makes it look a lot bigger than it really is that's how they do it um so but a thousand pounds is a fucking thousand pounds that's a giant ass pig have you

ever seen hogzilla have i seen it Have you seen the images of Hogzilla? Have you heard of this? This is like one of the biggest wild pigs that was ever killed. It was, I believe it was in Georgia. Yeah. Is that, did they have a photo of Hogzilla? There's one where it's hanging there. That one right there, Jamie. Look at the size of the one that's hanging next to this guy. Look at the fucking size of that thing. So that's not a perspective shot. That guy's standing right next to that thing. What? Yeah, what?

First of all, are those his balls up atop? Because if that's his balls, respect. That's a crazy sack. That's like a couple of watermelons in an old lady's pantyhose. Yeah, that's... What? It's a giant fucking... Giant balls.

How big was it? Over a thousand pounds. Yeah. Nah, I didn't know pigs... Wildly considered... Originally, it was widely considered a hoax. Hmm. Well, what happens is they take...

Domestic pigs are one of the few animals that morph automatically when they get out into the wild. Like, if you have a pig and he's your buddy and you let him loose out in the forest, they change physically.

Their nose gets longer, their hair gets shaggier, and their teeth grow longer. Their tusks grow. And their behavior changes. They go feral. And they go feral really quickly i think within like a couple of months they start physical transformation i didn't know

that yeah they're a weird animal like wild boars and wild pigs like you see a wild boar like dark hair thick scruffy and then you see a pig like at a farm same species same animal which is fucking nuts they're it's all one genus it's called sues graffa that's the type of animal it is and they can interbreed with each other they're the same thing and that's why when you go see wild pigs like domestic pigs they get loose and they become feral and then they start breeding in the wild, they're black. They're black. They have a thick, thick coat around where their neck area is because they fight. And they tear each other apart. So all around, like from their face down to like where their heart is on their chest,

is this super thick, thick hide. Like the thickest, like a shoe, like the bottom of a shoe. It's incredible how thick it is. So people that hunt them, you have to be careful with bows and arrows that you don't hit them in that area. Because if you have a weak bow and you're not pulling back a lot of weight with a really sharp arrow, it won't even go through them. Do you use a bow? Sometimes. Yeah.

Man, I had no idea. There's this girl, she works at this hat shop. And I walked in, and she's got this pet fucking pig. So I could just imagine that thing, like, getting loose for a couple of months. Like, have you seen my... Was it a pot-bellied pig, one of those little ones? Yeah, is that the same deal? No, I don't think so.

I think pot belly pigs are like uh like a chihuahua you know a chihuahua the reality of domestic dogs is that domestic dogs all share uh genetics with a wolf which means somehow or another we don't exactly know how they did it but through selective breeding a wolf became a chihuahua breeding a wolf became a chihuahua yeah you know i was having this conversation with uh putting my in australia about how a chihuahua became a chihuahua what did he say magic we didn't know oh we were just like that's how fucking crazy is that? Well, there's no clear map. It's not like, you know, like a liger. You know what a liger is?

Yeah, yeah. Like a lion mates with a tiger and makes a liger. Which is badass. Yeah, pretty badass. Well, they're also, they're so big. Because they, it's either a, I think it's a male lion and a female tiger. And, or maybe a male tiger and a female lion. But it has to be that specific combination.

And what happens is when that combination takes place, they don't receive the gene that regulates size, so they keep growing. Yeah. They're sort of enormous. They're way bigger than a lion and way bigger than a tiger. Like, ligers are enormous. They don't even seem real. That's why they were Napoleon Dynamite's favorite animal.

Yeah. Classic. Classic, by the way. But see, that makes sense, right? A lion mates with a tiger. You can see that they have similarities in their features. Gotcha. But chihuahuas and all domestic dogs, we don't really know.

There's a lot of speculation, and they believe that wolves became friendly with people because we're feeding them, and then they become more docile. There was a Radiolab podcast that talked about breeding foxes, and they would kill any fox that showed any sort of aggression or any, and that was trying to be dominant, or the growl at people, any unfavorable characteristics, they killed them. And within 10 years, the genes changed to the point where all the foxes had droopy ears, their jaws became less masculine, they became smaller, their behavior completely changed, they all became like a domestic pet. their behavior completely changed they all became like a domestic pet within 10 years they literally became a different thing and so the thought is that this is what happened with wolves and that wolves being around campfires with people like primitive primitive people tens and twenty thousands forty thousand years ago that we

slowly but surely started having relationships with these animals where they would protect us from the other wolves because we would feed them. And so they would become more docile and more, um, more dependent upon us. So they would, uh, they would be, they would give in, you know, they would, they would be submissive to us. And so their ears started to flop like a dog's ear, and they became less aggressive. They would respond to people.

You could train them and teach them to hunt with you because they got a reward out of being a part of the community of people. And then you would raise them from the time they were puppies, and they'd be even more inclined to go like that. So someone would find wolf puppies and raise them so they would imprint on people and be even more likely to exhibit those behaviors. Yeah, but what kind of people are you hanging out with to become a chihuahua? Gay folk. Mostly. Some Mexicans. I think chihuahuas are just, it's just like thousands of years of that shit.

You know, only selecting the smaller ones, only selecting the most docile, the most diminutive features. It's a good question, though. Yeah. You know, when you get freaky with it, the real argument is that it's very similar, in fact, to human beings. Human beings are the only animals that vary as much in their appearance as dogs like you got shaquille o'neal and you got bridget the midget those are both humans right how is bridget the midget or any or brad williams how's anybody who's got dwarfism how are they different than an english bulldog right yeah in a way i mean it's some sort of a strange change in the body and i don't mean this

in any disrespectful way i'm just trying to be completely objective about the physical form of these people you know i'm not saying that people purposely make dwarfs but i'm saying that the physical characteristics the differences in uh an english bulldog and a wolf. And that's very like the difference between Carl Malone and Brad Williams. I mean, those are both humans and they both could impregnate the same woman. Like if a woman had a baby with Carl Malone and then a woman had a baby with a dwarf, like right afterwards, she's still, I mean, she can get pregnant from both of them and have a baby from both of them. And potentially the same genetic characteristics could be passed down. Less likely with the dwarf, but I mean, it's incredible.

When you think about the variation of human beings, we can get a little tiny, like a 90-pound Asian lady, and then you can have Serena Williams, this super athlete with giant muscles and just ridiculous explosive ability. Well, they're both female humans. It's sort of like a golden lab and a Rottweiler. Those are both dogs, but they're massively different characteristics. Right.

And that's why really nutty conspiracy people believe that human beings were created by aliens and that much in the same way that human beings were created by aliens and that there's much in the same way that human beings uh engineered dogs and changed the shape and selectively bred them to the point where they became these little chihuahuas that that's what aliens did with human beings they came down they found some chimpanzees and some lower hominids and started injecting their dna into them and slowly but surely created a series of different styles of human being i've heard this before but with the but with the but with the dog comparison yeah yeah i don't know man i don't know either i'm not i don't buy the uh the alien thing i think it's much more likely it was just different climates and different parts of the world that were isolated from each other.

That's what I think. I think it's like, you know, build bread, adapt to your situation. Yeah, sure. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, there's characteristics that animals exhibit that similar animals in other climates don't. Like African elephants, for example. They have enormous ears because it displaces heat. Large surface areas displace heat better.

That's also why a lot of African men are very tall. Very tall and long because it's easier to displace heat over a large surface area. Right. Yeah. So like Asian elephants have different ears than African elephants do. Right. Woolly mammoths have much smaller ears because they were dealing with cold, cold climates. Whereas elephants, you know, in Africa, when they're in the hot savannas,

they have these giant-ass fucking ears. That makes sense. I mean, speaking from myself, my personal experience, I'm definitely much better off in warmer climates than I am in cold mountains. Are you? Yeah. Do you feel it? Can't do it, man.

Can't do it? Can't do it. Don't you get used to it, though? I mean, no. No? No, no, no. You just feel it in your bones. Yeah.

I don't like it. I'm like, I don't like this. I need to get away from this. You know what I mean? Like, if it's hot, I'm like, I don't like this. I need to get away from this. You know what I mean? Like, if it's hot, I'm like, okay,

it's cool. I can have it. But nah, cold is like, eh, eh, eh, eh,

eh. Yeah. Get away. Well, also growing up in Austin where it gets hot as fuck. Yeah, definitely.

So yeah, I did the New York thing. Couldn't deal with the winters? No, dude. So, yeah, I did the New York thing. Couldn't deal with the winters? No, dude. No. The look on your face. Well, because I'm thinking about all the times where I busted ass and, you know, sort of like walking across the street

and I step in what I think is snow and it's like underneath is like a foot of water and I'm just walking around. I've got one wet foot and I'm supposed to be going to some fucking event or something or go to dinner or do whatever. I just can't do it. I mean, I can. I don't want to sound like a pussy or anything, but I can't do it. Well, you can, but you don't want to. There it is. I don't want to. I I don't want to sound like a pussy or anything, but I can't do it. Well, you can, but you don't want to. There it is.

I don't want to. Yeah. I fucking don't want to. Why should you have to? I don't. That's why I'm here. There's options. Exactly.

Like, if the whole world was New York City, you could do it. You could do it. It's definitely better than not living. No, that's true. That's very true. I could do it. But you know that there's a better spot. Right.

I could adapt. If I didn't know any better i get it down but here you are in the best spot exactly when it comes to weather nobody could fuck with la that's true that's very true that's why there's so many of us that's why jamie's here look at him he's like he's from columbus ohio really yeah columbus ohio gives new york city the eight out in the breaks as as far as the way the way that's a pool term What'd you say? It's a spot It's a spot

Like if you're playing ten ball you give some of the eight out in the breaks That means if they spot if they win they can win if they make the eight ball the nine ball or the ten ball And they could break every time that's eight out in the breaks. That's a considerable It's a considerable handicap. Gotcha. I played pool a little bit but i don't know columb i've been to columbus before i got this cool little venue i played at columbus is great yeah it's nice it's a great town they're cool people there man it's a fun it's a fun town i like columbus a lot i haven't spent a lot of time there but you definitely had a good time. I haven't been there since I shot my special there in 2009. That's what a dick I am.

Where was that? Southern Theater? Once at the Palace, I think. That's right. That's right. Jamie knows my schedule better than me. That's right. When I started working with you.

That's ridiculous, Jamie. How do you know this and I don't know this? That was like 2011 or 12, right? 2012? Yeah. Columbus is a cool town. that's like my favorite town in uh in ohio where else is there in ohio like did you cleveland cleveland's not bad cleveland's fun cincinnati's fun but cincinnati they bullshit you they have the cincinnati airport in kentucky i don't like that. Why would you do that? Because it's insecure.

The Kentucky people are insecure. They should call it the fucking Kentucky airport because that's what it is, god damn it. Don't let those Cincinnati assholes claim your city. Wait, but how does that even? Exactly. The Cincinnati airport is actually in Kentucky. But to get people to fly into Kentucky is problematic because people have massive prejudice against Kentucky, man. It just sounds like hillbillies, whereas Cincinnati is like WKRP.

It's like Lonnie Anderson and fucking everybody's having a good time. Cincinnati sounds like a nice city, right? Well, it's fucking right next door to Kentucky. So close that you land in Kentucky and then you drive to Cincinnati. So they named the fucking Cincinnati airport this Kentucky airport. That's pretty good. That's a pretty good one. Sneaky.

Sneaky motherfuckers. They did it for people like us. I'm never going to go to Kentucky. Those motherfuckers got me. I people like us never gonna go to Kentucky never coming this place but meanwhile there's like Louisville where everybody goes like it doesn't make any sense yeah you know the Kentucky Derby's in Louisville right yeah see that's like everybody goes there but it's one of those quaint southern destinations you know I like the word quaint me too yeah i spent a little

bit of time running around there i found like the um it's the wildest crowds and kind of like in that area inside really for me i think that's interesting performing i wonder why i wonder why that is booze ah. Ah. I think. Yeah. I mean, booze happens everywhere, but I feel like people really have a good time. Well, when I started going on the road a lot in the 90s is when I really understood NASCAR. Like, I never got NASCAR. I'm like, who the fuck is watching this?

It's not that I didn't like car racing. It's like, who the fuck is watching these people go around in a circle and then i would see how big it was i would read statistics i was like bullshit these fucking statistics are all made up no one's watching this and then uh i did a radio station um i want to say it was in atlanta i don't remember where it was but i remember uh it was in the south and the guy was like did you see the race this weekend? Man, Dale Jr. is really fucking putting it to them I was like, what are you talking about? And they're like, NASCAR Tony Stewart! And he starts naming all these

people and I'm like, I don't know who the fuck you're talking about and he was flabbergasted that I didn't know who these NASCAR people were and that I didn't know who won the fucking Talacuscalusa 55560 or whatever the fuck name of the race it was. He was flabbergasted.

And I was like, how many people know? So then we had people call in that knew a lot about NASCAR while I was on the air. I was like, you guys know a lot about NASCAR? How many people? Oh, hell yeah. We watch it every weekend. And they're going crazy about NASCAR. I was like, oh, OK.

So this is a geographical, cultural thing that i'm just not privy to i just don't understand it yeah uh we got a little bit of taste of that in texas kind of bled over a little bit but austin has a formula one race that's very new but oh is it yeah how old is that well i guess i don't know new enough yeah a few years have passed, I guess. But, yeah, the F1. That's the shit, man. That's a different kind of racing. That's my style of racing. I love watching Formula 1 because it's turns and craziness and strategy.

And, you know, that seems like some crazy shit. Yeah, I could get more into that. But, yeah, I didn't know shit about NASCAR either. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, different thing. That's definitely a cultural deal. I was driving through, you know, Alabama and, you know, the South and everything.

And it's, there's, you know, tracks and everything, you know, for amateurs. And it's just like a big culture I guess yeah it's a big deal for those folks and they say that all came out of souping up their cars for moonshine runs I believe it yeah makes sense right get in get out of there yeah get this money get this exchange which all came from the same thing that we're dealing with psychedelics. Suppression. Right.

I mean, suppression creates diamonds. I mean, that's what created that kind of racing is people trying to figure out a way to get the fuck away from cops. So they made cars that drove faster, handled better, and they could just get away from cops. That was the whole Dukes of Hazzard. That's why they had the General Lee. They weren't involved in races. They were running away from cops. Right. They had some crazy souped up fucking. That's why they couldn't have guns. They weren't involved in races. They were running away from cops. They had some crazy souped up fucking, that's why they couldn't have guns. They always had bows and arrows.

Because the cops had taken their ability to have a firearm away. When you're a felon in this country, you can't own a gun anymore. Right. Understand. A little bit. This podcast turned weird, right? Yeah. It was a weird one. A little bit. It was a good one, though, right? Yeah. It was a weird one.

A little bit. It was a good one, though, man. Yeah. So where are you performing next, and how can people see you? Where can they find out? We're performing, doing something for the Grammys. Oh, cool. When is that?

The 15th, February. We're doing a tribute to the legendary B. Oh, cool. When is that? The 15th, February. We're doing a tribute to the legendary B.B. King. Beautiful. With Chris Stapleton and Bonnie Raitt. I wouldn't be doing what I was doing if it weren't for guys like B.B. King. It'll be cool to be able to show them some love there. And then we just hit the road, man. We're going everywhere.

Your website? Yeah, GaryClarkJr.com. And you're active on Twitter. I see you're on Twitter all the time. There's all this stuff. A little bit. A little bit? I'm not as active as people say I should be.

When are you going to be in this area where I can come see you, man? Where are we going to be? Is there anything on there? Does it say anything there about California? Yeah, we'll be doing Coachella. That's about it. Um, is there anything on there? Does it say anything there about California? Yeah, we'll be doing Coachella. That's about it. Last time we did three nights at the Fonda in December, so we kind of.

At the what? At the Fonda. Oh, and where's that? Hollywood. Okay. So, yeah, we did that one, and I think we're not going to be around here for a little while. Well, listen, man, anything you've got going on, anything, if you ever want it promoted, you need any help tweeting it,

come on here. Anytime you want, you've got an open invite. Thanks, man. I'm happy you're in our town here. Yeah. And I hope you enjoy it and extend you as much hospitality as possible. I appreciate it. And I'm a big fan, man. I love your music.

Thank you. I was listening to it on the way over here, man. I'll show you. Check this show out. Likewise, man. I've been following you Thank you. I listen to it. I was listening to it on the way over here, man. I'll show you. Check this show out. Likewise, man. I've been following you for a long time. Bam. Look at that.

There it is. That's my playlist on the way over here, sir. Appreciate it. So much love, sir, and respect. Same. Gary Clark Jr., ladies and gentlemen. Yes, sir. Yeah.

We'll be back tomorrow with Tom Papa. See you soon. Much love. Bye-bye. Big kiss.