The Joe Rogan Experience - #759 - Cameron Hanes

Episode Date: February 15, 2016

Cameron Hanes is a bowhunting athlete, “training intensively each and every day to become the Ultimate Predator.” http://podcasts.joerogan.net

Jamie. Bam, motherfucker, and we're live with Filthy Skills, by the way. If people are wondering what Filthy Skills is, this is a hilarious story, because I just saw you wearing, I ran into you in Salt Lake. I didn't know, I was going to be there, by the way, Cameron Haynes, my friend, Bo Hunter. What's up? Where's my camera here? Wildlife conservationist, ultra marathon runner, ultimate badass.

I was in Salt Lake skiing with my family at the same time. What was it called? The Great Western? It's a Western hunting exposition, conservation exposition, something like that. Which I really want to just drag some of the biggest diehard vegans, one of the most angry ones. Yeah. Just let them loose there and go wander around. They'd go bonkers. They'd run into walls and scream and probably pee themselves. It's all just skulls and shit.

And mounts and big cool stuff. And places you can go to shoot your own food. But you were wearing this filthy skills shirt. So I'm like, what is filthy skills? And I've been seeing it on your Instagram. What is filthy skills? This is hilarious. So some guy sent you this, and we'll put it up on the screen so you can see it on the

YouTube. Some guy sent this, which is a photo of a YouTube comment with this guy. You got it, Jamie? Where some guy said to you, here it is, fuck you for destroying our world with your filthy hunting skill. Yeah.

Your filthy hunting skill. Why don't you kill yourself instead to reduce the population, dumbass? First of all, the spelling on this is atrocious. It's almost like he got his dog to write that for him. Yeah. The spelling on this is atrocious. It's almost like he got his dog to write that for him. Yeah. F-K, space, letter U, space, for, he got destroying, right? Yeah, that's a tough word.

Yeah, he's weird. He's like, population's good, filthy's good, but you're, he does you are. People that do you are, what do you do with all that extra time that you spend? Between, like, Y-O-U. What do you do with, you know, you don't have to spend that time working those fingers very efficient yeah your filthy hunting skills so you saw that and were like hey there's a couple things that i thought i did not know i had the power to destroy the world i i am more powerful than i that i ever knew that's impressive isn't it but then i also said hey i have filthy

honey i thought that was sort of like a compliment yeah so it's hence the shirt there's a there's such a disconnect going on this world right now we're talking about this today while we're practicing it seems like there's some sort of a culture war there's a movement of people right now there's this whole eat what you kill movement. And a lot of people are rejecting the idea of factory farming and rejecting the idea of buying processed food and buying cows that are locked up in pens and treated like a commodity rather than like a living animal. And going out into the woods and hunting and getting their own food and connecting to this sort of primal existence and doing that. Self-sufficient. Self-sufficient. That's what I like about it.

I don't rely on anybody to feed my family. And a lot of people love that. Right. But then there's this group of people that are completely disconnected from the way the wild works that are very angry about all this. And there's some bizarre conversations that I've been having with some very well-meaning, very intelligent people. They're very nice people.

And this is where there's a big misconception here. Like, I got into it with a gang of people recently. And I shouldn't even say I got into it, because I've kind of given up on Insulting people online because I don't get anything out of it right I get it if you don't like it You don't like me I get it. I like me. I like me. I'm a nice guy I mean if you meet me if you meet me and you communicate with me nice even if we disagree I guarantee we're gonna have a pleasant conversation. I'm a nice person right so

I guarantee we're gonna have a pleasant conversation. I'm a nice person right so when someone like Insults me or says nasty shit, or it makes a nasty video about me. I don't watch it right I'm not going to people want to respond. I'm not going to why would I I don't have enough time I don't know enough time to spend with the people I love I don't have time to hang out with you Yeah, what about you have 15 extra minutes to watch a video and then make my own video and reply? I don't have time. This world, this life is short. Okay. So I get that people are upset, but the core message that everybody's getting out, there's one of two messages. One message is you should never eat animals at all. And then we should live this idyllic existence where everyone lives off nuts and twigs and shit and vegetables.

And that's all you eat. Pine cones. Okay. That's fine. You can do that. But then there's the other that you support and I support that the best way to live in this modern world is to go out and get your own meat. Problem with that, of course, and this is a real problem. Everybody can't do that.

There's not enough wildlife. There's not enough time. And I don't think that we think everybody should do that. No. Our point is, and I think people like us, is you don't have to do it, but don't condemn it. Yeah. Don't condemn it because we, I mean, as you said in my intro, conservationists, hunters are conservationists. We're the one that's paying the money for habitat, for all these biologists to tell us exactly how many animals are out there.

They got boots on the ground and they're out there with the animals doing the number surveys, figuring out harvest numbers to try to achieve, carrying capacity. The guys online who think that grizzly bears are almost extinct and like, how could you kill a bear? You know, they want to kill me because I killed a bear in Alaska that they probably have no clue how many bear are running around Alaska, but somehow they know that I shouldn't have killed it. They don't know how many are there. They don't know what the bear, what the bear population where I killed two brown bear, which are grizzly bear and a black bear. They don't know that those bears need to be controlled. Otherwise they decimate the moose population. It's, it's all about moose, everything. Yeah. And part of that balance is humans. So people always say, well, animals will take care of themselves. You know, they've always, they've always, you know, it's worked out predators kill, blah, blah, blah. We're just interfering. Well, yeah,

we're interfering also because of your house, you know, we're taking habitat. So we can't let the animals sort it out because we're the ones encroaching on habitat. So we are in that process. We are at the top of the food chain. We require habitat too. They require habitat. So there's a balance. It's all part of the equation. It is. And this balance is, there's some parts of it that are set in place before you and I were born. And before a lot of these people that are arguing, everybody, before everybody that's arguing about this has been born. The cities were already in place a long time ago. The food chain has already been in place. The market chain has been in place as far as like getting food to supermarkets. Most of the supermarkets that are in existence were there long

before you and I started shopping at them. And that's a part of this equation of human beings. Another part of the equation of human beings is what you're talking about with predators. And this is one of the things that I had a discussion about with the guys who I really like. And there's some misconception I didn't like these guys. The guys that made that movie Cowspiracy. Oh, right. They're very good guys. They're very smart guys.

They're, they're, they're vegans. They became vegans while I think. Is this factory farming? Well, it's a lot about factory farming and a lot of it is about the amount of waste, uh, methane, uh, that gets into the atmosphere because of factory farming the the actual waste as far as their their shit the cows shit and what with the amount of devastation that does to our environment and how much actual land these animals need to graze in order to to feed them it's these are really

complicated numbers right and disputed they went with the extreme on one end. And there's some other people I'm having tomorrow. Doug Duren, my friend from Minnesota, Wisconsin. My buddy from, he's from the Steve Vernello show, Meat Eater. He has that large ranch out in, what is the name of this? You hunted out there, right? Yeah, I'm trying to figure the name of the town. It's a very weird, small town.

Anyway, he's in Wisconsin in this really cool area where it's the, you know, they have, it's called the Driftless Area, where the glacier's missed. So it's all hilly and gorgeous and beautiful. And that's where he lives. And he raises cows out there and he's going to come in and give his perspective on a lot of this stuff as well um but they did they had this really strange idea about wolves and the strain that i had to correct them and this idea about you know that we've hunted the wolves to near extinction and now they reintroduce them

people won't hunt them again and you know they really have to stop that i'm like man you gotta this is wolves are fucking cool and this is one of the things that i said these guys nobody wants to eliminate wolves but throughout human history long before we were around people have had a problem with wolves and there's a reason for that all the big bad wolf stories all the little red riding hood all that shit it's because wolves are fucking terrifying they're very very dangerous and i brought up the whole world war one incident where the germans and the russians had a fucking ceasefire because so many of them were getting killed by wolves they made an agreement they're like look obviously we've got a real problem that's bigger than us like team people let's stop killing each other for

a little while and kill these fucking wolves and they killed the wolves and then went back to killing each other it's a crazy story that is and then there's the other story from the 1400s in paris where wolves killed more than 40 people in paris the city of paris was overrun with wolves it's insane wolves are killing machines and you have to keep their populations down. And if you don't, you run into huge problems. People bring up, there's this video that people bring up all the time, how wolves changed rivers. And it's a fascinating video. We played it on here before. The problem with that video is the guy who made that video is fucking nuts okay and he is romantic to the extreme and the idea of

introducing Keystone predators into these areas where they haven't been before his idea was that wolves are making things better for all these other animals by getting rid of the but they're not they're decimating the elk population and there was a thing written by scientists disputing all of his claims that were in that video so then I went like what's this guy's deal about? So I listened to this NPR podcast on him. This motherfucker wants to bring lions back to Europe He what he's like there's parts of the UK that are empty and we could reintroduce lions and hyenas like Bitch are you out of your fucking mind? Good idea. You're going to bring, the UK's not that big.

No. You're going to bring lions, like actual African lions? And his idea is that they found these fossils of these lions that existed there thousands of years ago. So then he'd be back. He wants to reintroduce them. Yeah. Well, people have, and by the way, this guy was suicidal and depressed, like to the extreme, ready to kill himself, and then decided to what he calls rewilding. He reintroduced himself to the wild, started experiencing the wild, and fell in love with wildlife and nature.

And that's what pulled him up out of this. And now it's his mission. Hey, I'm in love with wildlife and nature, too. Well, realistically, but realistically. Right. Yeah. Well, realistically, but realistically. Right. Yeah.

Well, it's I do want to say one thing, because we've talked about factory farming and, you know, the downside of it. We're not lumping ranchers, regular ranchers that that raise cattle. I mean, my family is a cattle ranching family in eastern Oregon. So I'm not talking about, you know, cows that are out with enough pasture out there and then, and then being killed, taking the market and killed. We're talking about that animals that don't leave the cage that are standing in, you know, their own feces and just never move and never have a life and then have a bolt shoved through their head and they're dead. You know, we're talking that extreme. That's not everybody. I have a lot of respect for farmers and ranchers. And, uh, I mean, so we don't want to lump everybody into the ranches are all factory farmers.

No, they're certainly not. And one of the things that I noticed when I was in Montana, when I first went hunting with Rinella, we went through the Missouri breaks and there was all these cows wandering around. And I was like, what is the deal with this? Well, those cows literally wander free on public land. And this is what this Oregon nutty shit is about. And what the Nevada nutty shit was about with all these crazy ranchers that want to fucking take over the government.

Yeah, that's not good. But what do they call it? Yalkaida? That's my favorite. We don't even know. We never even found out who came up with that description. Someone was claiming that someone on the podcast came up with that description. But when we were in Montana, that's when I first got introduced to this,

these animals literally roam free and wild. They sleep outside. They eat outside. They wander through. And then they're corralled. And when they're brought to slaughter, then they're corralled. And so for the majority of their life, they live off the land land almost like an elk yeah like a wild animal essentially except they're someone's someone's property right some people have a hard time with that they have a hard time

with the idea of property of an animal being property and i i get that too man another thing i watched recently was this penn and teller um from, do you ever see that show Bullshit? No. It's a great show that they used to do on Showtime but one of them they did was on PETA and the Animal Liberation Organization or whatever the fuck they're called. Yeah, I've heard of that. Foundation. They're freaks, actually. Holy

shit. Yeah. Violent arsonists burning down buildings spray painting vegan power and these, I mean, just like the nuttiest shit. But they don't think that people should have pets. They don't think. And here's one of the best parts about it. One of the women that was in this program who works for PETA is also a diabetic.

This is where you got to buckle yourself in because there's only one way you get that diabetes medicine. It's from animals. So it's an animal product. And so she was saying that she didn't think that she was a hypocrite because that product saves her life so she could save more animals. Well, guess what, fuckface? That's what hunting is.

Exactly. That's what hunting is. I mean, if you go out and you hunt a wolf, and I'm not into hunting wolves, but they have to control their population. I'm not into hunting anything I don't eat. somebody's got to kill them somebody's got to do it and they're doing it by the way yeah they're and also here's another thing about california california mountain lions are a giant issue there's an article that i posted up recently

pull it up jamie that someone someone sent me yesterday they did this like you cannot hunt mountain lions in california there's a reason for it it's not it's not logical it's all based on on people who are animal lovers who got into a position of power or voted this in well there's the study they're finding because they kill these mountain lions when they start moving into neighborhoods and killing pets and it's super common they've killed what's the number of mountain lions they've killed this year? Because it's crazy. Okay, here we are.

107. 107 mountain lions were killed last year legally by the government. So that's 107 mountain lions that people didn't get tags for, which means that's money that didn't go into the state coffers and it didn't go to conservation. It's just money. It works the opposite. The state is paying. Exactly. Yeah.

State is paying for something to do, so they're going in the hole They're going in the hole instead of going into the profit margin which would they normally did I'm in the black and red yeah I'm not I'm colorblind man, okay, but So they they analyze these mountain lions and they found that mostly what they're eating is pets Yeah, they're eating fucking only 5% had eaten deer. Right. Well, they're going to go with the easiest target. Yeah, but that's insane.

Only five. Granted, a lot of these animals, what they're killing, they're already problem animals. Well, and what happens with lions is they're so territorial. So the younger lions come up and the more dominant lions have their area.

So the younger ones are forced to go somewhere else. They can't really cross. So they go somewhere else. What's left is cities and neighborhoods and residential. And that's where the pets are. So, I mean, those are probably juvenile lions mostly and down in there. And it's just a matter of time before a little kid gets snatched or whatever. And people don't want to talk about that or think about that, but that's the reality of it. They're just predators. They're killers. They're going for the easiest target right now. That's, uh, dogs and cats, but they don't care. They don't care. They're not hugging each other and crying. Like we've seen billboards of that either.

We're going to get into that in a moment, but I think this is what I'm trying to get at. Um, this is where I think, i think there's a dispute and a misconception and the misconception is that hunters are all these evil people that want to hunt these animals to kill them so they can put them on their wall almost all of the money that goes to fish and game fish and wildlife management organizations that protect wetlands, that protect public lands for camping and for people to use and people to enjoy and go hike, the money to support those comes from hunting. Yeah.

People hate that. They hate it. But by far, by far, the amount of money that comes from conservation comes from hunting by far. The amount of money goes for conservation. comes from hunting by far. The amount of money goes for conservation. Yeah, for the animals. For the animals, for habitat restoration. You know, that show we were just at in Utah, they had a mule deer tag that was auctioned off.

For an antelope island tag, they give two tags. One is in the drawing, so you have a very small chance of getting it because there's huge bucks. Where is antelope island? I don't know. Utah. I'm not sure exactly where it is there. Is it an actual island? I don't know. I don't know if it's just a place they call Antelope Island or if it's an actual island.

Jamie will find out. It's a state park? Yeah. I knew it was a park, but I didn't know if it was an actual island or not. But anyway, so one is a drawing. There it is. So it's, is that the a drawing. There it is. So it's, is that the Great Salt Lake there? Yeah.

So it's a, you see that it's out into the Great Salt Lake and it's not, it's not a detached island. It doesn't look like. It's just a long peninsula. Yeah. So it's a peninsula they call Antelope Island and that's, there's huge bucks and I think there's sheep there also, but the bucks are what draw the money. So they auctioned one off and it went for $410,000 for one deer tag. And that, most of that money, 90%, 10% goes to

funding the auction and doing all the things that's required there. 90% of that $410,000 goes right to habitat restoration on the island, building water sources, enhancing those, relocating animals off that peninsula there because the genetics are so good. The bucks are big and the sheep are big. So they relocate those superior genetics throughout Utah. So then you might not draw that tag or you might not have $410,000, but those genetics are genetics throughout Utah. So then you might not draw that tag or you might not have $410,000, but those genetics are spread throughout Utah. So they're spread in areas where general hunters have the access to. And it's just, it's all positive. It's all positive for the state

park. And, you know, anti-hunters will say, well, if you really cared about the animals, you just, you know, do the $410,000 and not go hunting. Well, it's true. Why doesn't an anti-hunter do that? Well, here's a part of the problem. There's a bunch of problems with all these discussions. hunting, they don't regularly go into the wild, into these habitats, into these environments and see how brutally hard they are for these animals to survive anyway. It's not like if you kill a buck and that buck lived to be five years old, you might

be taking a year off its life. That's it. Right. No. Maybe. There's no hundred-year-old deer out there that have lived a long, great life. And this is the idea. One of the parts of hunting that actually aids in conservation is when you get a mature buck and you harvest that mature buck, you're allowing the younger deer to breed where they might not have gotten the opportunity.

And you're also, in a lot of cases, saving their lives because they get killed in fights with older deer. Like a lot of deer die from fights. People find them all the time. They literally stab each other to death. They don't have those antlers to look cool. No. They don't have those antlers. They're a purpose.

They slam into each other. That's what they do. Same with elk. Yeah, same with elk. I mean, when you and I were in Colorado, it was one of the coolest fucking things we saw. Remember when we went down near that little creek area and there was, there was like a huge herd of like 20 elk together and those elk were duking it out and slamming into each other. Oh, it's amazing. Well, here's another thing that I don't think anti-hunters realize, you know, you go out for

an extended period and the killing, the actual killing is such a small part of the hunt you know i mean it's those experiences like when we saw those bulls fighting and we saw i think there were seven bulls and there's one nice bull a 350 class bull he was a herd bull but their satellite bulls spread throughout on the out he's he kept him pushed out and they were jostling around and we were there we didn't kill anything but the experience of that night was one I'll never forget. We had a bull sneak in behind us to 15 yards and a nice bull, a bull that would have been a great bull for you to kill. And it didn't happen. But it was just like the adrenaline of that experience.

I mean, he was right there behind the bush. I mean, right there. He was so close. But nothing died. No. But we were predators. We were predators. They were prey.

And that's life. That's life in the mountains, right? Yeah. That's how it works. Even if we didn't have a bow, even if we weren't there to kill anything, if we just had calls, if we were just calling them in, it would have been an amazing experience. Because when you were there with Essentially as wild an animal as you're ever gonna get I mean a North American elk is a 1,000 pound gigantic wild animal with a tree grown out of its head

And it's living the way it's lived for thousands of years and you you know you as a person who lives in Oregon and me as A person who lives in Oregon and me as a person who lives in California, we travel onto their land. We hike in to where they're at and we experience this wild existence that they live in. And we don't want to stop that. We're not trying to kill them off. We want more of them. And this is the idea of killing a mature one. You want to take out an animal that does not have much time left and you help the rest of

the animal survive because of that. You make it so that the younger bulls have a chance to thrive and breed. Otherwise they're pushed out. They're pushed out. And they're not doing anything. And, but, but I will say one thing. So you said, even if we wouldn't have had weapons, it would still have been amazing. But to me, it would have been different. Yes. It would have been different because if I'm just an observer internally, I feel a lot different. I only, I feel like I'm a predator when I have a weapon. So I don't know if I could, if I would have worked as hard, if I would have cared as much, if we were just observing, you know what I mean? Because if you remember that, we snuck down, we were sneaking, or I mean we were on our butts kind of scooting down,

and the two bulls were jostling around right there kind of sparring a little bit, and we had a small window through the brush. And I was like, you were right here, and I was looking at Mike. I said, can you see that window? Do you see that window where you can get that arrow through? And it was just that and the intensity of that moment. So you're a predator, that's your prey. How can you ethically kill it? That's where all the, all it comes down to. I mean, that's why we're there to me. That's everything, you know, it's just that crunch time moment.

Well, there's one of the most ridiculous things that you see when I look at your Instagram or even my Instagram. If I, I rarely post a picture of a dead animal just because of that. I'll post fish all day long and nobody gives a shit. Nobody gives a fuck about fish. It's hilarious. It's hilarious, the hierarchy. Well, fish, they're not alive, are they? Here they are.

I believe they are. But if you post a picture of an elk or god forbid a bear people lose their fucking minds and one of the things that people love to say is if it's an original thought it's one of those things that they usually say yeah you're such a big man how about you do that without a weapon i love that without a what hunter has ever killed anything in the history of man we're still men right that's why hunters are shit tell me a hunter even a caveman that ever killed without a weapon of some sort what are they talking about they're not talking about anything they're just talking they're just trying to demean you and i go to

their fucking page and one of them i i this guy was feeding his animals meat and i'm like did that shit come from a meat tree he's like this guy was shitting all over you. And then I go to his page and he's got dogs. He's got dogs and he's feeding them meat. I'm like, oh man, there's some fucking convenient thinking going on here. It's so strange how many people have these convenient patterns of thought where they're self-righteous. They take the moral high ground.

Now, look, the only person that has any say, the only person that has a leg to stand on is a person who's a vegan, who doesn't eat any animal products, any animal products. Okay. That's a small percentage of the population, but if they want to criticize it and they have an argument, they have a very small leg to stand on. Now, when you have a conversation with them, that's when that argument kind of falls apart. It does because, okay, if they're hardcore vegan, fine. But are they growing their own vegetables? Very few. Because if they're not, they still are responsible for animals dying.

If you've ever driven by, if you've ever been into farmland and say where a field's been harvested, once a field's harvested, you'll notice buzzards flying around that field. You know why? Because there's a bunch of dead animals out there. There's rabbits that were killed during the harvest. There's mice. There's also, so. Fawns.

Birds. It's a big problem with deer. Feather, grouse, whatever. I mean, those, you know, the combines or whatever they're using out there is just tearing everything up and animals are dying. So you can, unless you're growing your own vegetables, unless you're do it yourself vegan, you're responsible for animals dying. If your house isn't made of wood, because if it's made of wood, there's timber harvested. And when that timber was harvested, animals die.

So, I mean. Well, they're also their habitats displaced. Right. So, I mean, people. Well, I think what their idea is they want to do the least harm possible. Okay. But a lot of them already came from a background where they eat meat. Like, I had this one guy who was fucking arguing with me.

He wasn't even arguing with me. He was giving me all his grief. And then he admits that he was a meat eater just seven months ago. Right. He's been a vegan for seven months. He's fucking 40! So. So, for 39 years and three months ago. Right. He's been a vegan for seven months. He's fucking 40! So. So for 39 years and three months,

this motherfucker. Five months. Whatever it was. How bad is my math? So this guy, for all these, you were very quick though. Your math is very quick.

But my point is, seven, come on man. Come on man. You can't say that. Seven months ago, you were a fucking vegan and you're shitting all,

you were a meat eater and you're shitting all over these people. It's right and what's wrong. And so I went to his page, same as you. I see a bunch of hot dogs on the grill. And I was like, dude, enjoy those hot dogs. But before you judge me or condemn me, why don't you live a little? You're 20 years old. What the hell do you know about anything? And all of a sudden, you know what's right and wrong.

And he's like, he says, I'm going to have to answer for this or karma or some crazy thing. I'm like, what do you know? You haven't even lived yet. Well, not only that, hot dogs are probably the worst. This is one of the worst. I mean, that is ground assholes and cow dicks. Yeah. I mean, it's probably one of the worst things you can fucking eat, too.

Oh, my God. Filled with nitrites and nitrates and whatever's bad for you i understand that they're trying to work it out for themselves and working it out for themselves a lot of times people want to condemn people that are living a lifestyle that's outside of theirs they decide hey i'm gonna live this small carbon footprint lifestyle where i'm gonna be humane and i'm ethical and i'm gonna be cruelty free hashtag cruelty free and I'm gonna go on it's like hashtag cruelty free It's like they want to tell you yeah half of them have fucking vegan in their names Which is hilarious vegan this vegan that healthy happy vegan fucking vegan flower child

Everyone's it's but it's a part of their name like it's it's a big part of their identity and it becomes It becomes like a cult and I don't mean it like you know You have to fucking initiation and pay dues, but I mean it's like you're a part of a gang Yeah, it's it's people have a tendency to do that good or bad They have a tendency hunters have a tendency to do it people who fucking use windows have a tendency to do it But I don't like Apple. I like fucking windows right Apple your piece of shit Well, but but hunters don't have the hate that these anti-hunting vegans have they don't they don't i mean hunters don't go to their pages and shit on them for no vegetables no who cares live your life yeah you know well i get where

their thought process they think they're doing the right thing they think they're doing the right thing yes and there's a lot this is another thing I want to point out. And I went on this Twitter page discussion the other day. I went on this rant. I don't hate vegans. I have vegans that are friends. It's not. And I know. I'm not lumping everybody in.

You know, there's a small percentage of people that are assholes, that are arrogant and outspoken and really aggressive and mean and shitty. And where's the cruelty free there? Like, why are you being cruel to other people that are living? Look around the world. Go outside and drive for 20 minutes. And I guarantee you, you're going to pass 30, 40 places that have dead animals in them. Every fucking supermarket you pass by, every fast food place, every restaurant,

every gas station has Slim Jims at the fucking counter. All of that is animals. So for you to find a hunter, the one person that you could point to that probably kills animals in the most ethical and humane way possible. In the wild. And contributes and pays money to play part of the conservation role. Yeah. And people will hear these podcasts.

All you fucking guys do is justify what you do. If you have to justify it Maybe there's something wrong. No, it's that the arguments are tiresome. There's a guy that's coming on next week His name is how do you say his name Tovar? How do you? Cerule Tovar Cerule anything that's that's on Cerule He's an author and a guy who used to be a vegan who's not a hunter right and panties will be bunched They will get sandy. And tweets will be tweeted.

Good. It's going to get crazy. But I just think that podcasts like this and conversations like this with a guy like you. Like, I think what you do is the best way to do it. I mean, I've said this time and time again. What you do is the best way to do it. Because what you're doing, first of all, it's the most difficult way to do it. And you prepare your body for it in a very fucking grueling fashion we worked out before we got here and you work out every day and one of the reasons why you work out every day is fucking going through the

mountains is hard as shit it is it is hard man yeah i i never knew until i went with ranella the first time we went up to the missouri breaks we're climbing the mountains for seven hours a day yeah i was like oh okay this is fucking this is not going to the gym and getting on the elliptical machine. No. This is fucking constant, and it's all day. And if you're packing shit, you have to be strong. You have to be physically strong. You do.

I mean, and you remember in Colorado when we were huffing it up that ridge, you know, we were at the bottom of the canyon, heard a bull bugling. It's the bull you kill. Yeah. This dude takes off like a fucking mountain goat. I'm in pretty goddamn good shape Yeah, and I'm like He's like

He's not even breathing fuck he gets to the top of the mountain That's how he saw the bull yeah at the top of the mountain you spotted it But well that that the Sun was going down we had a lot of elements going I could tell the bull was a good bull Just by his bugle and we'd been huffing it down there done trying to get on a bull that was bugling we never could get eyes on him but then i heard what sounded like a mature bull and then sun going down and that's why you train right exactly it's that that's exact situation you're coming out of a hole you're climbing you know 9 000 feet the air's thin there and it's a race against time essentially but i mean we made it work yeah you don't you you

are able to close the distance in a much more efficient way because of all your training and uh that was a good example of another good example of it was the pack out i mean we're packing out a lot of fucking weight man this asshole has two fucking elk quarters in his backpack so it's like 180 pounds i I mean, how much is that? Heavy. I don't know. Heavy as shit. You basically have me on your back and you're walking a mile with this, you know, and there's

one, there's a photo. I'm sure I have some photos of us from this very trip that we're talking about. We're packing these things out. But the point is what you're doing to acquire, when you have an elk steak and you sit down with this, and I had this conversation with Remy Warren about it, where he's like, it's almost like a religious experience. He's like, this is a precious piece of meat. I've gone into the wilderness. I've harvested this animal, and I have a precious piece of meat.

And he goes, and I treat it almost like a baby. He goes, like, I season this, and I cook it perfectly. And he has this intensely intimate connection. And I do with the animal that we killed that animal that you and i killed when i eat that thing i think of our time together i think of how difficult the hunt is i think of how crazy the environment is how beautiful the experience is there's so much more to it than going to a store and buying a squash right you know and this is what people need or even buying a steak even buying a squash. Right. You know, and this is what people need to understand.

Or even buying a steak. Even buying a steak, sure. But even buying, even a vegan or a vegetarian. But your vegetables, you're disconnected from these vegetables for the most part. Most people are. Yeah. There is an intense connection with the food that you eat, even if you grow it yourself. Like my wife gardens, and I do as well.

And she does it more than I do. But we'll have salad from something that we grew in our garden and it's awesome right it's awesome like we're chopping tomatoes that we planted as seeds and we fertilized the ground we watered it and it came up we picked the tomato and now we're slicing into it and right it's amazing the whole process and that's that's where the hunt that's where the hunt where the training and the preparation and the reverence for the animal and the harvest of the animal and the care of the meat and you get to your house and you put it in your freezer and then you thought, and then you put that whole process is right. I'll agree with Remy. There is reverence to it.

And it means so much. And for a hunter for, and I, I think, you know, as, um, just being a provider and just being like, like I always say, self, self-sufficient and doing it is hard. It's a lot easier to go to the store and say, Hey, here's some of my money. Can I have that meat? Thank you. Okay. Somebody else did all that, all the stuff we just talked about. Somebody else did that with no reverence. Right.

And I'm eating it with no reverence. Yes. You know, so to do it on your own is i mean it's it's why it's what i train it's what i prepare for every day and it's uh it just means so much well it's enriching in a very strange way that i never experienced in my life until i started hunting i'd never had this kind of connection with my food, except for maybe going fishing. You know, this last summer, I took my kids to Hawaii, and my kids love fishing. My little girls love it.

It's fun because, you know, they can put a line in the water, and when they catch something, and then we're cooking it and eating it later, they're like, we caught this. And they keep saying, like, mommy, we caught this fish that you're eating. Like, there's like a primal connection yeah to to this thing but other than that i had never experienced this sort of primal connection to your food and all you know nonsense aside like there's a difference between a fish and a mammal there just is totally and there's a there's a difference between a fish and a mammal. There just is. And there's a big difference between the reverence that you have for, in my opinion, the most majestic of animals that you hunt, which is elk. I think it's the most majestic. They're mythical creatures, man.

They're crazy. Elk, sheep are up there, you know, where they live and the regalness. But elk is, God, just because they're so iconic throughout the west you know a big bull elk is just what you know when you envision the west you envision mountains you think of a big bull elk and then you say i'm gonna hunt this with my bow yeah it's intense it's fucking hard to do too and uh god damn you forget me addicted to this shit it's a real problem i'll text him every now and then like Like I'm in the middle of doing something. I'm like, I wish I was bow hunting.

I swear to God. This is boring. I'd rather even just shooting. We shot at a rubber target today. It was awesome. I have a rubber elk that sits up on my hill. And we did a little FaceTime video. We were out there doing it.

But just shooting at that rubber elk is cool. No. That's what I would say. You can take anybody. You can take the coolest person you know. Just sit here and think. Who take the coolest person you know. Just sit here and think, who's the coolest person I know or who's the coolest girl I know? You take that person, you put a bow in their hand, and you get them shooting a bow.

They're cooler. Aren't they? That's your thoughts. No, that's my, yeah. I mean, shooting a bow makes you more of a badass. I prefer girls that don't like to hunt. That way they don't want to come with me. No, I don't want them to hunt. They don't complain while they're up there. I don't want them to hunt. I just want them to shoot a bow.

Don't screw up my hunt. No, I'm kidding. Sexism in hunting. Does it exist? It does. Next on Oprah. No, on Dr. Drew. He would love that. He would get me on there and just crucify me. And he would get a bunch of girls who don't know anything about hunting

To yell at you Like they did When we got back from Brazil It was right when this whole Cecil the Lion shit was going down And these people wanted to Have a hunter on to yell at Essentially And I was telling you don't do it

And the first time you didn't do it I got you to leave I was in the green room I was in the green room I was in the green room Getting ready for hair and makeup And it just like Wasn't feeling good Yeah I'm glad you talked to me

I'm glad we had a conversation So I left but then I did go on Yes you did go on later But it was after the smoke had settled And you went on with a conversation about Ethical acquisition of meat And you went on with a conversation about ethical acquisition of meat. And, you know, Dr. Drew eats meat. Yeah.

A lot of those people on that show eat meat. It's just bizarre. It's a bizarre conversation. It's bizarre. I mean, that show, whatever. The show is around because controversy. Well, one of the fucking hilarious things in the show was the woman who was saying that the reason why there's not so many grizzlies is because we've killed off all their predators that's right she that that which means dinosaurs by the way saber-toothed

tigers what the fuck eats a grizzly jesus christ have you ever seen a grizzly lady yeah there's nothing eating them except by the grizzlies they're pretty much the top of the food chain yeah and i mean well we are but they're not really on the same page that we think we are, they think they are. So there's a little bit of a conflict there. There's a huge conflict. I mean, essentially, it's like two different kingdoms. Yeah. They're on the top of the food chain in the wild kingdom.

We can get them in their world, but we got to get the fuck out as quick as we can. Yeah. We can only exist in their world for a couple weeks at the most, and then we're like, okay, we gotta get back to an actual bed, and I need to take some vitamins. Right. No, it's, uh, I don't know, it's... Well, according to

the woman from, um, goddammit, my brain is foggy today after working out. What's her name from, um, Life Below Zero? Sue Akins. Sue Akins said that she saw a bunch of uh wolves run down a young grizzly kill it oh yeah she said the young grizzly was coming out of its den and when they come out of their den they're kind of weak and these these wolves knew it so they chased after it and they were biting its legs and they're chasing down and it happened

like a fucking hundred yards from her house a A hundred yards from her house. Sounds like she lives in L.A. here, right? No. This lady is so badass. Yeah, she's intense. She is the most gangster woman on the planet. She really is. I have massive respect for her. Yeah.

She's just so cool, too. She came in and she's, it's not like she's like some weird loner who hates people. She loves people. But she prefers to live in one of the harshest climates on the planet 200 miles above the arctic circle that's awesome she's so badass you know how much tougher she is than probably 99 of the men that live here in la she's tougher than me i'll tell you that this is what this lady did she got attacked by a bear bear tore her apart okay broke her leg broke her hip cracked her skull

she they she had to crawl back to her house the bear was just fucking her up because she was in its territory this bear mauled her right she lived she managed to live she got back to her house she was stuck for days where she couldn't walk her leg was broken she was stuck she couldn't get to the phone okay she couldn't lift herself up she had to wait for someone to find her so these people found her like i think it was seven days later she got healed up went back shot that bear and ate it there you go that bitch is so gangster yeah i said bitch with all due respect that is amazing she's so gangster well let me expand on something before I get people hating me for uh I women bow hunters I love you I uh I actually joking around folks we are a little bit I love that women hunt I love that I do too I do I mean I want to I'm taking Dana Lesh uh bow hunting for bear this year so I mean I I don't

and I want to you know me and Eva have been talking about getting together for a hunt. So just all joking around. I do just like people shooting bows. Yes. Even if you can envision this, if Obama shot a bow, I'd probably think he was cooler. And that is amazing. That is amazing. Eva Shockey. We should say who Eva is, too, by the way. She's the daughter of Jim Shockey, who's been on the show, who's an amazing, fascinating guy who has a show.

Even if you don't like hunting, there's an amazing show called Uncharted. And it's barely about hunting. It's really about different cultures. And this guy goes to all these. This guy, Jim Shockey, is as cool and interesting as it gets. He is just a fascinating, fascinating guy. He is. And he travels to these remote places in the middle of Russia.

And he went to Afghanistan. And he went to Africa to this remote village that has a massive problem with crocodiles. And it was an incredible show. It's an hour-long show. I mean, it could be on the Discovery Channel. It could be on HBO. It could be on anything. It just so happens it's on. Is it on the Outdoorsman's channel?

Outdoor channel. Outdoor channel. And this guy goes to this place and you're seeing these people, like half the people in the village have been mauled. I mean, people are missing arms. They're missing legs. Their faces have been cut open because they're getting killed by crocodiles left and right. And while he was there filming, a woman got taken by a crocodile.

They've set up these sort of rudimentary fences that they put in place to keep the crocodiles out of this area where these people gather water. And he's there with these other hunters where they're trying to take out. Once a crocodile apparently starts eating people, you've got to kill it. They've got to taste for it. Well it. They got to taste for it. Well, they got to taste for it and they realize how easy it is. A wildebeest can fuck up a crocodile a little bit. You can throw a kick at it and break its jaw. I mean, a crocodile is an incredibly tough and durable animal, but a wildebeest is a tough scrap.

It's a big animal, like a water buffalo. That's a scrap. It's a big animal. It'll work for that. It might not work out a person god man we're made out of jello we're jello and popsicle sticks nothing well and i hunted crocodile i mean really they are they're tough where'd you hunt crocodile in africa whoa yeah in tanzania i wanted to kill one and so to get within bow range of you have to build a blind

and they come up you know their eyes are just above the water. And for a bow, they have like two bumps. They got a bump above their eye, then one back here. You have to be like right below that or right in between. You're shooting at about a 50-cent piece size. You have to brain them. Because if you hit them in the lungs, they're in the water, and then they sink. You don't get them.

So if you're going to hunt a crocodile with a bow, it has to be brain shot, drop them. So to do that, you have to get them so if you're gonna hunt a crocodile with the bow it has to be brain shot drop them so to do that you have to get them up off the shore right and uh could never happen built a blind had the bait up it was just like so hard to do that but uh one of the guys i was with killed one with a with a rifle and we ate it and the meat is amazing well it's supposed to be the highest protein meat you can get. Like alligator and crocodile. It's supposed to be ounce per ounce. One of the highest in protein content.

Right. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, it was so good, too. But yeah, they're smart. They're tough. I don't think they're smart. I think they're stupid as fuck.

Well, try to kill one. I just think they know how to not get killed like they have like a couple calculations they make in their brain is that a person yeah fuck this dude i'm in the water okay their brain is very small i'll give you that because it's a small target but if you're trying to hunt them you're gonna think they're smart yes if you're gonna do a crossword puzzle with them probably not that smart they're fascinating though man i want to i want to give a shout out not only to jim shockockey because he is the ultimate savage. Love Jim and love Eva, but their son, Branlon.

Yeah, Branlon is the mastermind behind the shooting of that show. Right. As far as filming and the production value and what you see on TV, that's Branlon Shockey. Amazing. TV that's brandland shocky amazing and he is I think he could film like the the the best Hollywood movie you've ever seen he could do that he has that talent and right now he's doing it on the outdoor channel so that's if nothing else go and watch his work yeah on the on that show and the new show uncharted uncharted which is amazing in the new show Carter's Wars war what Carter's war

is all about this guy who's combating against poaching in Africa. And it's all about stopping poachers from killing rhinos and elephants and all these different animals that they're killing in Africa. And so it's like not really a hunting show as much as it's just a pure conservation show about a guy who's trying to stop poaching in Africa. And it's amazing and gritty and incredibly well documented and shot. And it's just, man, the world of Africa, if you want to watch a documentary, and I've mentioned this before to people, so I'm sorry if you've heard it before, but our friend Louis Theroux, who's been on the show before, who's an amazing documentary guy, documentarian from the UK, did a show on these hunting ranches in Africa,

which is very different from what you did in Africa. What you did in Africa, you went to the actual wild of Africa, not a high fence operation. But these hunting ranches that they have set up in Africa, it's such a catch-22. There's so much contradiction going on because on one hand, these animals are trapped in this, it's usually enormous, like several thousand acre area.

It can be, yeah. Where they're trapped in these areas and they're hunted. People call it a canned hunt. And a lot of people have a lot of hate for it. But on the other hand, the animals that they're hunting have never been healthier in higher numbers. And a lot of them were on the verge of extinction until they started implementing these high fence operations

and it goes back to the same thing we were talking about the money for conservation the real money that these people are getting in africa is coming from hunting right that's what's paying for these animals to survive because so many people are going over there to hunt yeah and people say because the animals have value exactly that's the key and that's a fucking weird concept for people yeah if an animal doesn't have value it's probably going to be extinct yeah i mean that's how that's that's why that's why hunters care that's why conservationists care because the animal is valuable whether it's right wrong or indifferent when there's value people care And people have an understanding today that they didn't have this several hundred years ago. Like when people look at the gigantic mounds of buffalo

skulls, that's a perfect example why you need conservation. You can't just have people run out and kill these animals that have value with no consequence or with no monitoring of the herd populations and the health. That's when you get these horrific mass extinction events like like what happened with the buffalo and the buffalo were basically brought to the verge of extinction now they're in healthy populations to the point where you can actually in some places you can hunt wild ones and the same thing could be said of elk the rocky mountain elk foundation has done an amazing job of repopulating areas with elk where they were, at one point in time, completely eradicated. Well, did you know that when you talk elk,

deer, turkey, when you talk, there's more of those species now than there's ever been? Is that true with elk? Because I know it is with white-tailed deer. There's more white-tailed deer today than when Columbus landed. But I don't know if that's the case with elk because there's more places where they don't exist. I think most of the area where, like Steve Rinella did a whole show on this recently, where most of the area where elk used to be, they're not. But

in the areas where they are, they're in healthy populations. I'm on... Jamie, can you look this up? Yeah, look this up. Look it up about elk populations. Because I'm almost positive there's more now. See, elk are and probably Rinella would know. So maybe, you know, if he's been on the show, but elk are their plains animals. Originally, they're pushed into the mountains because the plains, that's where we live. We live where there's water and in the valleys, that's where humans set up their cities.

And that's, you know, to get use of rivers and we need water so they have been pushed and now they're mountain animals but now there's elk where there hasn't been elk before pennsylvania uh kentucky you know places like that so maybe they're maybe they're more places than they than they've ever been but i'm almost i'm almost certain there's even more elk but whatever the case i don't even think there are more places than they've ever been i think it's the ones that are there are in healthier populations than they used to be i think but i think elk are a lot like uh buffalo in that there's at one point in time like hundreds of years ago they were just shooting the shit out of them they're almost eradicated them oh right i know yeah and now they're they're bounced back and they're healthy everywhere.

And where'd that money come from? Cameron Haynes. I want to say hunters. Yes. Rocky mountain elk foundation. They've done a fantastic job. And they, they've done, they've been on the forefront of protecting habitat. So that's, I know they've been over 6 million acres protected.

I think maybe close to 7 million now, or maybe even over. I haven't kept track recently, but that's 7 million acres that can never be used for anything else other than habitat for animals. And that's not just elk. That's deer, too. Elk numbers across six states. So how are we looking there? Yeah, see, this is across states. But I think maybe we could keep looking.

See that? American elk populations dwindled to less than 100,000 by the early 1990s. Wow. That's insane. And now in 2009 grew to 1 less than 100,000 by the early 1990s. Wow. So now. That's insane. And now in 2009 grew to 1,031,000. That's incredible. So the 1990s, that's insane. It was down to 100,000 in the 1990s.

Wow. That's terrifying. Like that's the verge of extinction in our lifetime. Not just in our lifetime, but when we were both men. Yeah. So during that time. No, that can lifetime, but when we were both men. Yeah. So, during that time... Wait, no, that can't be right. Is it? No, the early 19...

No, that's got to be 1890s. Where does it say that? Doesn't it? See the last sentence of the first... last word of the first paragraph? By 1984, there was an estimated 715,000 elk in North America. No, right above there. The last word of the first paragraph. Fortunately...

American elk population... Less than $100,000 in the early 1990s. That can't be 1990s. Is it incorrect? I get what you're saying, but it might be a mistype. I think that's 1890s. Really? Yeah. Because it says by 1984

there's 750, so it wouldn't have went all the way back down. That must be a typo. That's, there's 750. So it wouldn't have went all the way back down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That must be a typo. But anyway, so the point- Well, that's a dumb typo. Who's fucking Go- What does it say?

GoHunt.com. See, I don't necessarily trust a lot of these hunting sites for things like that. I trust them when they support the point I'm trying to prove. Yeah, but that's a fuck-up. That's a giant fuck-up. Somebody should email that site. Somebody who's listening, please email that site and let them know. Let's get that fixed.

I think it's supposed to be 1890s. It has to be. And I would say less than 100,000, and now it's over a million. So that's where I get the point that I was making. I think before people colonized the West, I think they were everywhere. And I think that's what Ronello was saying. Maybe so. I think what he was saying was that they're not in 90% of the places they used to be in.

But the places they're in, it's like- They're thriving. They're thriving, yeah. And this is a really important point when it comes to, like we were talking about grizzly bears. Like people say, like, the grizzly bears are almost extinct. In Santa Monica, yes, you're right right they're almost extinct in california they they only live in california not a ton in california go to alaska they're fucking everywhere and there's a lot of them folks in alaska which is twice the size of texas it's a goddamn enormous

state and they are they are big and there's a lot of Right. And they decimate herds of caribou, elk. And they estimate that something around like where John and Jen live in Alberta, more than 50% of the moose are killed like at birth. Right. By bears. That's where the bears, they follow. So a cow moose is pregnant. It's going to drop the calf. Right.

And so bears will know that moose is pregnant. No, she's going to be dropping a calf. They follow her. As soon as she drops a calf right there, kill it and eat it. That's how, that's how they get her. They just follow the moose around. And sometimes not even then, a lot of times they're pulling it out of the cow's body. Right. I mean, that's how it, they're brutal. I mean, life in the wild, it's not a fairy tale out there. It's a real deal. It's, it's life and death. And so they's no, they're brutal. I mean, life in the wild, it's not a fairy tale out there. It's a real deal. It's, it's life and death.

And so they're doing, they're just going to kill. They're going to kill. That's all they care about. They're going to kill, eat. That's how they survive. So there's nothing wrong with that. No, I'm not. That's what they do.

I'm not going to judge them. But, uh, yeah. So where I was, I was in, um, in 16 in 16 in Alaska, and a non-resident can kill two brown bear, which are basically salmon-fed grizzly bear, and three black bear. So you can go up there and kill five bear, which I wanted to do. But don't think that I'm bloodthirsty. Think that I want to help the moose, and I like the bear meat. So I didn't do it. But, I mean, that's— Well, you killed three. I killed three, but that gives you an example of how many, how many bears there

are. And this is by biologists who are paid and who have went to school and have, who have studied the carrying capacity of the land and how many animals they determine this. This isn't, this isn't hunters determining this. This is Alaska fishing game. So that's where I have a problem with the people who think they know better than people who this is their passion. This is what they care about. They have boots on the ground. They're doing it. They're setting the bag limits. So you don't know if you don't live there and study this and this has been your life mission, you don't know more than them. Well, they're wildlife biologists. And by the way, if those populations aren't kept at a healthy level, they send in people

that they pay to kill these animals. And this is an important factor. And this is what we're talking about with California, because California doesn't have a hunting season for mountain lions. Right. So they have to pay people to go in and kill these mountain lions. They're not just letting the mountain lions live. No.

They're not. If they become a problem, they're taking them out. They just don't want to deal with the backlash. Exactly. That's it. So they're just avoiding the backlash. By doing it quietly. It's not for the betterment of the animal or the ecosystem or anything like

that. It's just because they don't want to deal with the drama. And then you get these people. Well, they were here first. We're where they are. No, they weren't. First of all, that mountain lion's five. Okay? I was here way before that fuck. And they, as in they, come on, stop.

This whole place was covered in ice 10,000 years ago. So shut up. Like what are you talking about? Who is they? What is this? This is the world we're living in right now. It's 2016 and a mountain lion ate this fucking dude's cat. So what are we gonna do?

Are we gonna just let the mountain lion ate this fucking dude's cat. So what are we going to do? Are we going to just let the mountain lion eat his kid now? Because it would if you leave that kid on the swing and you go in and fucking answer your email real quick and you come back, your kid's not gone. You see that fucking tail hop over the fence. That's how it works. That's the wild. Go to the barbecue to turn over your veggie burger.

You know? That kid's gone. Um, Cecil. Alright, so this is the billboard. Who's that? Your grandpa? Now, that kid's gone. Cecil. All right. So this is the billboard. Who's that? Your grandpa? No. My grandpa's name was Joseph.

Oh. Look at this fucking photograph. There's a lion that is hugging a bear, and the lion has a tear rolling down his face, and the bear has a tear rolling down his face. And it says, ban the bear hunt. They are all Cecil. Save NewJerseyBears.com. Oh, my hunt. They are all Cecil. SaveNewJerseyBears.com.

Oh, my God. That makes me want to punch somebody in the face. What kind of fucking crazy person, living in some weird bubble, made this billboard and spent actual human money on it? Yeah. I don't know. Just fantasy land. If they haven't seen, okay, they have a giant problem with bears in New Jersey. And this is facts behind this. First of all, a student from Rutgers was fucking killed by a bear right outside of Rutgers.

See that photograph? Student took this photo of a bear just before it killed them. I was talking to a guy who knows rangers out there, and they're telling people not to hike. They have so many goddamn bear in New Jersey. And why do they have so many bear? Because they didn't have a hunt for them. So these goddamn things, they got overpopulated and they have now they're, they're entering into residential neighborhoods and these huge, look at this fucking video.

Bear fight, far Rockaway, New Jersey, August 14th of 2014. These bears are duking it out. New Jersey, August 14th of 2014. These bears are duking it out. These are big black bears, like seven foot bears, 400 plus pound bears. And they are going to war in this guy's front lawn. These are huge. I mean, if you were in Alberta and you saw one of these bears coming in, you'd be like, Ooh, boy, that's a trophy bear.

That's a giant bear. That's hundreds of pounds of meat for the grill. Yeah. And these bears are in this guy's lawn. I mean, this isn't some crazy rural, you know, like Sue Akins living in the middle of nowhere. No. It's in New Jersey. This thing just knocked over a lamppost, and now it's colliding with these garbage pails.

Watch this. They're fighting over territory, by the way, that's created by garbage. That's what the territory is. They attack people's garbage. And these two bears, they bite each other and then they duke it out. Look at the size of these bears. I know. These are huge.

Right. Well, that's, that's why. Okay. So maybe there was, before there was houses, that was perfect bear habitat. But guess what? There's houses now So that means bear we have to control the bear numbers. That's hunting Well, here's another part of the problem these bears weren't here 30 years ago

These bears are overpopulating and moving into these neighborhoods and they're doing it because they know that people live there And it's a steady supply of food garbage Yeah when you live in Colorado and Colorado is they had a big issue with it in this area where I was where the Bears would find out that people put their garbage in a certain area and once they eat there once that's it they have to capture those bears and they either relocate them to zoos or figure something out but when I was there we went to this wildlife rescue

place and they had this gigantic grizzly bear that they had gotten because look at the fucking giant chunks of fur they're tearing off of each other. Look at that. It's insane. Yeah. These are huge bear. They're beasts. And now, I love this video because a car pulls up, and they start taking selfies with the bears. But they had to relocate this grizzly because it just started tearing apart people's cars.

It found food in someone's car once. Was it grizzly or black bear? It was a brown bear. It's one that they had had. I don't know where they had gotten it. But it happens with black bear. It happens with brown bears. Yeah.

No. It's just, you know, the numbers need to be controlled. That's all there is to it. And Colorado doesn't have a large brown bear population, right? Well, it wouldn't be brown bear. It'd be grizzly. Yeah. It's brown bear when they're near the coast and grizzly when they're inland? Brown bear, they eat fish.

So they're on, you know. Why do they call them different names? Different species, I guess, is what they've determined. You know, they're bigger because they eat fish so they get all that protein. So they, you know, they can be up 1,400 pounds. Whereas a mountain grizzly, an average mountain grizzly might be seven foot 500 pounds you know i mean life's tougher up in the mountains they're eating blueberries when the blueberries are on um you know eating what they can but what the the bears that eat the fish

they're gorging on fish they get big it's just a high protein diet kind of like what you're on right now i'm on a high protein diet so you're like a high fat too yeah this this diet is kind of for the birds but not really birds eat grain i'm enjoying i mean it's not bad but i've been on it for two weeks and i would really like a bowl of pasta right now but it's going well i bet it's interesting yeah well that whole Cecil and the bear hugging thing that it's insane yeah

you know guarantee a woman made that how about that how about that folks I'm done with the sexist I'm done with that part I don't know

maybe it could be a gay guy could be a weak dude no all sex gender all that nonsense aside we're joking around here folks what that is

is just someone who doesn't understand it's it's it's crazy ignorance and um the the idea that you want to let these things keep fucking and breeding and overpopulating to the point where they're killing college students just outside of rutgers and they're having these two 400 plus pound bears duke it out on your front lawn yeah that's not good, folks. It's not good. So I'd like to see these people that think that the bears hug and cry each other, go break the, you know, come on, guys, let's settle down, break it up. Go break those bears up. How about?

Since apparently they cry and have emotions, you know, and Cecil has a brother, you know, who's protecting his family, Jericho. Okay, go break up that bear fight. Let me know how that goes. What is this? Samantha? This is from their website, SaveNJBears.icho. Okay, go break up that bear fight. Let me know how that goes. What is this? Samantha? This is from their website, saveinjbears.com. Oh, God.

So this is another named. I think we're only facilitating this issue right here with naming the bears and humanizing them. Because if you watch the Super Bowl, it seemed like every other commercial was something, an animal singing or an animal talking. Or it was like, I mean, I saw sheep singing like in the acapella group. I'm like, what is going on? Well, and so that's, that's where hunters are fighting for our place right now, because the kids are seeing that and weak people are seeing that. And people that don't get, Hey hey i want to be part of the food

chain are seeing that and they're like humanizing these animals the sheep don't care about anything but eating eating and fucking yeah they do they stay alive they're not talking they're not talking about oh here comes a guy he's bringing us our food let's seeing you know they're not they're not it's not realistic but that's the that's the person or that's the programming the programming that's getting out there and just messing with you know the hard wire of these young people coming up or the well a lot of hunters attribute bambi as being a turning point in the way americans viewed hunting yeah because then all of a sudden you're seeing this beautiful animal getting chased down and killed by a hunter. Yeah. Well, we need to fight to change that.

I think we are. We are. Because, you know, every time you see a hunter on a show or on a—I don't even know what it's been on. I think South Park's even had something. But it's obviously—it's some redneck hillbilly drinking beer, you know, no respect for anything. That's all. Even in all the Hollywood movies, that's what that's what they that's the image they portray. We need to change that. Yeah, well, I'm trying to we're trying to.

And I think with podcasts and with conversations on the Internet, at least information is getting to people that they weren't getting before. I've had many, many people both on Twitter, on my website forum, on Facebook, on all these different forms of social media say, I had a different perception of hunters. on Jim Shockey, Steve Rinella, Remy Warren, these really intelligent people that can talk about Tim Burnett, who can talk about these things in a way where they explain to you their perspective. They grew up with this. This is how they've lived their life. And if you lived your life in a city,

it doesn't make sense to you. It seems alien. You watch Bambi. You see these yogi talks to Boo Boo. They have conversations. Why would you want to shoot one of them? Until you venture into that world, you don't understand it. And we're insulated from it because of supermarkets, because of this bizarre world we live in where we've created these artificial structures that we think are normal.

These cities and this method of acquiring food where you just run a piece of plastic through a machine and you walk away with all this food. It's not healthy. No, it's not. It's not. It's like if you could have sex with a faceless person where you didn't even get to see their face, like all you saw was like their body from the shoulder down and that's what you had sex with and you had a kid with that person.

You didn't even know that kid. And you walk away. But I got my needs met. I mean, almost, that's almost what's going on. It is. It's almost what's going on when you're acquiring food without ever growing it, without planting that seed. And I'm not saying you should fucking plant all your food. And I'm not saying you should only hunt if you're going to eat me.

But what I'm saying is if you could do it it would bring you a little closer to understanding where that food comes from and it'll give you a just a broader view of this world we live in and what you're doing by consuming food you are consuming whether you're consuming salad and here's another thing vegans i i put this up the other day i was fucking with a bunch of people where i trolled people were sending me all this vegan stuff, so I just started trolling them by sending them all these scientific studies about plants and plant intelligence, which is a new form of study, or it's a new field of study where they're finding out more and more each day that plants can do calculations, each day that plants can do calculations, that they respond to being eaten, that they have different mechanisms to discourage predation. That's where poison plants come from.

They're communicating with each other in some sort of strange way. That when one tree is getting chopped down, it's sending signals to other trees. It's in its own way, in some sort of a weird way. You're eating life. If you're of a weird way You're eating life If you're eating a plant you're eating life If you say that it's okay To eat vegetable life but it's not okay To eat fish if you say it's okay

To eat fish but it's not okay to eat Animals What you're doing is you're making these bizarre Moral judgments And they're based on convenience And a lot of them are based on ignorance. And a lot of them, they don't hold up when you start looking at things objectively. No.

And people say to you, like, why don't you eat your dog? Well, I don't want to eat my dog. Okay. Jesus Christ. But my dog is a pet. Okay. My dog was raised from the time it was a baby. I've had it since it was young.

I'm not going to eat it. Right. But if someone does hunt a wild dog and eat it, and it's between that wild dog eating them and them eating that wild dog, you know, that's an unfortunate situation. Yeah. But you got to eat that fucking dog. Yeah. Manny Pacquiao, his parents, they ate their dog when he was starving when they were a kid. It was like a very traumatic moment for him.

I bet. His family was so, they were starving. They were so poor. traumatic moment for him where his family was so they were starving they were so poor they had to eat their pet dog yeah well and then the people would say well you're not starving why are you killing animals right for us because i don't want to starve that's a good point what the bet what i like active what i like the most we talked about changing the stereotype is i like you know working as know, work out all the time. I like when people ask me, why are you working out so hard for bow hunting? And this was like that, that gives the craziest look, you know, but it's been the same answer for me for years is because I want to be

the best in the mountains. I think that the best that you can be the best I can be. Yeah. I understood that way more after I went with you, you know, after I went hunting with you in Colorado, I get it. I get it more because you're in you. After I went hunting with you in Colorado, I get it. I get it more because you're in better cardiovascular shape than me, and I'm in good shape. If you take the average person, I'm in better shape than the average person. I'm not in better shape than you. You're fucking running ahead of me. I'm like, this motherfucker, I can't catch him.

There's a certain pace that you can keep because you run mountains all the time that I'm just not capable of keeping right now. It made me up my cardio in a big time, big time way. When I came back from that hunt, the first thing I started doing is really upping my cardio. Well, and I, you know, so we had a real, you know, real life example of that. What I like as much as that, I mean, not as much as that, because I love being with somebody who's successful and who experiences a hunt, and I'm able to share in that. And that's a whole other thing. It's like I didn't kill anything, but I was part of your hunt, and that meant as much to me as me getting my animal. So, I mean, we have the whole camaraderie, and it's not every man for himself. We're out there.

We're working together. We want to be successful and harvest meat and take me home to our families. But what I like is people who are inspired. They're not with me, but they see the training and they're inspired to up their game. Like maybe they're, maybe they won't run a 200 mile race or run 10 miles a day or do any of this, but maybe they'll run one mile, you know, and maybe it's making my whole thing is if you're not making, if you're not making a positive impact, what's your point? What are you doing? I want to make a positive impact on people. And that's why I love social media and sharing what I do and hopefully it can inspire others to do more. And that's, that's my motivation daily.

Well, there's a great, this is a, there's a great time for that. And it's a, it's a, there's a great this is a great time for that and it's a it's a there's a great venue or a great uh vehicle through social media that didn't exist before to inspire people and i am constantly inspired by it you know and some people get upset like oh you're fucking posting pictures so you're working out like fucking showing off like i like when i read the rocks instagram okay i do i think 40 million other people do also That fucking guy is up every morning If he's got to work at 7 he's up at 4 And he's in the gym

And it'll show a photo of his alarm clock going off And it'll show a photo of him in the gym Making crazy faces where he's fucking full of sweat And it makes me realize I'm a lazy bitch And it makes me want to get up and work out Exactly There's a community People want to get up and work out. You know, I mean, that's just, there's a community. People want to be inspired, I think.

They definitely do. I know I do. And I know that you've created a community, your Instagram page in a lot of ways. And I don't want to say it's your community, but you have spawned through your Instagram page, a lot of inspirational communities as well. I've looked at these other people's pages that follow you and I'll see like the hashtag keep hammering and they're out doing things and I see people responding their posts you know I saw this and it made me go to the gym and I wasn't going

to so thank you for that and it branches off right it feeds into everybody and it's positive it's positive for all of us and at the end of the day look you know you can make all your fucking angry videos and you can make all your angry posts and shit on this and shit on that and and and get angry about people You don't even me, but what is the what is the message that you're putting out this angry shitty message? Now you're putting out this angry negative thing. Yeah, who's getting are you pumping yourself up? Are you standing you're standing on a moral high ground and? Are you pumping yourself up? Are you standing on a moral high ground and espousing your superiority to the world?

What are you doing? What are you doing? Are you broadcasting that? And you know who's inspired by that? Nobody. Some people might be to also be cunts. Like, this guy's a good cunt. I want to be a cunt, too.

I know. I guess I don't hang around those people because I never hear that. Well, you don't see them. I'll tell you what. If you meet one of those people in real life, I guarantee you the conversation wouldn't be like it is in these one-sided debates. Or these one-sided broadcasts. If someone makes a blog, this angry, shitty blog. You have a conversation with that person. Tweets and blogs, especially if they're negative.

It's a very ineffective form of communication. Negative videos. They're very ineffective. Because this is not a real conversation Like the way people are supposed to communicate is like you and I talking to each other Mm-hmm, you know even fucking podcasts in a lot of ways It's one of the things why people get angry because you're there's someone listening to this right now You're like you motherfucker. I got something to say yeah, I get it I understand but don't get mad at me right if you were here

We would talk, but you're not here should we take a few calls away? We don't do call-ins thing. No, it's too hard You know the beautiful thing about the internet is everybody has a voice you can text me about the internet is You got my number text me so that'll that'll eliminate a lot of people You know you can you can choose what message you put out there. You can choose how you experience life. You can choose like how you, how you interact with people. And some people, I think they're, you know, this is a new world we're living in this world of social media, this world where anybody can start a blog or anybody

can, you know, start putting things up on Twitter or Facebook or whatever. It's a new world and we got to learn how to navigate it better. Well, you know, people, like you said, people can choose. I can choose to, I put up positive. Yeah. You don't think I have negative things happen in my life? Of course. Yeah. I could put up negative, probably as much as positive. I'm overcoming all sorts of hurdles all the time, but what's the point? I'm like I said, I want to be positive. I want to inspire people. And, you know, at the show in Utah this weekend, um, I was amazed at the number of people that waited a long time to come up and share their story, share their story about losing weight or the success they've had or the, or the impact as a hunter, a bow hunter who, how would a bow hunter make that much of an impact? I have no idea, but it happened. And that, I mean, if you ever wonder, you know, what's your

calling in life? Cause I've wondered, what am I, what am I doing? You know, when I was young, what's, what, where am I going? What's going to happen? Well, weekends like this weekend where I saw all those people and talked to all those people and had that interaction, that really drives home I'm doing what I'm meant to do. And that's making a positive impact. And, I mean, that's through bow hunting. I mean, that's it. It's what I do. That's how I met you.

Yeah. I mean, I met you through bow hunting and social media. I mean, your's it. It's what I do. That's how I met you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I met you through bow hunting and social media. I mean, your positive message reached me. And we talked about it on the Gritty Bowman podcast, which we just did. We dropped in and did a podcast, an impromptu podcast with these guys. They call themselves the Gritty Bowman. And it's a good podcast, but good bow hunting podcast. And we sat in and we talked about it.

Like, I was interested in hunting for a long time before I met Steve Rinella. And then when, um, I was going on different websites and looking at different YouTube videos, I saw your stuff and I'm like, well, okay, well, here's this guy that's really into fitness. He's into fitness and preparing himself to be what you call the ultimate predator to be your best at what you like to do, which is bow hunting. I'm like, well, this is kind of crazy. So then I started watching your videos. I'm like, what a positive dude. This guy's working out. He's giving people great advice. He's telling people like how to use proper technique with archery

and how to have a good attitude about this and how it's all good. And you're like, it's a beautiful day. We're out here and we're enjoying the, you know, the beautiful weather. We weather We're out here practicing is what we do every day, and I was like this is inspirational And this is positive and and through you you meet me I? use my What I've created this vehicle of social media and podcasting to broadcast it more and then all these new Positive branches spread out from that is it's awesome. It's amazing. Yeah, I love it. It's so much better than shitting on people. It is. It's so much better than negativity. And like I said, when I had these guys from Cowspiracy Inn, these guys are vegans. They're vegans who made a documentary about veganism and the powerful message that they had

about the anti-factory farming message. I had a great conversation with them. And I believe, I truly believe that most of these people that are making angry posts on Twitter or angry videos, if I sat down with them and had conversations with them, they'd be positive conversations. Whether we agree or disagree, I have a very well thought out point. I would imagine they have a very well thought out point too. Where they're coming from is not a bad thing. I would imagine they have a very well thought out point too. Where they're coming from is not a bad thing.

It's just this, something is lost in the broadcasting of this message. I think that's a real problem that we're all sort of navigating in this world is that somehow or another, the messages that get the most reaction are a lot of times the negative ones. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Well, in regard to hunting, why do you like archery? Do you like archery better than rifle hunting? Definitely. Why? 100%.

Why? It's more challenging. It's more in, it's, there's the book called Zen and the Art of Archery. Yeah. It's a book that I need to read. Everybody tells me I need to read this book. But there's something about archery itself. Like today when we're practicing shooting at that rubber elk.

Yeah. There's something about the, there is a, there's a moment when you're at full draw and you're about to release that arrow where everything is still. Everything is calm and you're not thinking about anything else other than releasing the perfect arrow because it requires so much concentration and so much focus. And it was completely unexpected to me. When I first started practicing archery, I thought it was going to be like shooting a rifle requires a lot of focus.

It requires trigger discipline. You have to steady the gun on a rest. You have to like, you know, really stay still and squeeze that trigger. And there's problems with that. You know, you get the shakes, you know, you get nerves and even at a target range, you know, the gun's going to make that kick. And so you get a little flinchy. It's nothing like archery. Archery is that times a hundred. It's, it requires, there's no resting. There's no rifle rest. Right.

You know, you have to hold your arms steady. Right. And the amount of movement that you make, because the arrow's only going at the most 300 feet a second, 350 if you've got some super bow and a light arrow. Right. The difference between that and a rifle. 3,000 feet a second is a rifle. Yeah. So any movement translates to a giant amount of

movement at the end where the arrow hits yeah and it's just as a discipline it's it's cleansing like for me i love after a long day i do a lot of shit man i got a lot of things going on in my mind you know i have between comedy and podcasting in the UFC and family and business bullshit and it's like so much bullshit going on yeah so many different things in my mind that for me what archery is is like this is like ultimate meditation this ultimate focus point where I draw back and I see that target and then I release that arrow. And then when that, when that arrow goes right into that bullseye, like we were shooting that rubber elk today.

And when you nail one, it gets right in that small circle. It's a beautiful, satisfying feeling. It is. It's that, that moment that in the impact and seeing where it hit, I mean, and then, so that's just a process of it. But then when that happens, cause what, why are we doing that? We're doing that to prepare for the hunt. Yeah. So when all that work pays off on the hunt, it's just, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know how to, you know, I see some videos and I see people running around and tackling each other and doing all that. I never feel like that. I always feel like, um, I feel, I guess, blessed or thankful for the moment and mostly thankful that I made something that's very difficult happen. You know, I achieved that goal

and it's, uh, I don't know. It's, it's so powerful. And I just, that's what i don't know it's it's so powerful and i just that's what i you know i like people to shoot a bow because as you said shooting a bow is is centering and it's zen like i guess if i even know what zen means i don't even know if i do but it is relaxing it is requires amazing focus um so that's a good start but when you you can block everything out, because you say you have to block everything out to make a good shot on that target, on the foam rubber, the Reinhardt elk today. Well, on an animal, when the animal's moving, there's different factors that, you know, in line, he's bugling, your heart's going a million miles an hour and then when he can do it there. Your heart's going a million miles an hour and then when you can do it there and then where you take that up another level is hunting the mounds. Like if you're sheep hunting and then you have it's such a physical and then it could be dangerous also. So you have so many things. And when that happens on something like a sheep in the sheep mounds, that is to me life changing.

I mean, experiences like that have made me who I am. And people say, you know, bow hunting has made you who? Yeah. I mean, because coming through and crunch time like that is more pressure and more accomplishment than anything I'll ever do in normal life, because it's just that difficult. Well, through difficult things, our character gets challenged. Our, our, our will and our focus get tested. And through those tests and through this very difficult task, you learn more about yourself, right? You learn more about your ability. You learn more about your faults. You, you learn about your weaknesses. You learn more about your faults. You learn about your weaknesses. You learn about your strengths and you learn how to shore up those weaknesses and get stronger. And that's why

people who have never experienced it don't understand your dedication to fitness, don't understand your dedication to making sure you're in the best possible shape you can be. Also that your archery practice is at the best it can be so that when that moment of truth arises, you can steady your nerves, you can keep it all together, and you can execute. And that execution, that is an insanely difficult test that very few people have to ever do anything in life that's remotely as difficult as shoot an arrow at an elk that's 50 yards away and watch that arrow sink right into the vitals and realize that you've done it

and realize that now you have enough meat for a year for your family with one animal, with one animal. And are we quantifying life? I mean, are we saying that all animals are worth something? If that's the case, every pasta bowl that you eat, you eat a bowl of pasta, that pasta comes from grain. That grain most likely was chopped from a field, from a combine that is a hundred yards long, that it's indiscriminate and it's running over everything as we were talking about. Running over mice and rabbits and fawns and ground nesting birds and anything else that might be in its path. And there's a lot of death involved in that. So every bowl of pasta that you eat, even though you feel like you're completely immune or completely free of any

responsibility of death. It's not true. No. But one elk with one arrow feeds you for a year. A year. Right. I have two fucking commercial freezers in the back. They're filled with meat.

I gave Gary Clark, the musician, the other day, I gave him two pounds of elk. I'm like, take this home and cook it. Bill Burr, the other day, he sent me this text message. He made elk chili. I gave him some elk. I give people meat. I love it, take this home and cook it. Bill Burr, the other day, he sent me this text message. He made elk chili. I gave him some elk. I give people meat. I love it. I love it. Love providing. Yeah, my friend Chris Ryan sent me this photograph, or Duncan actually sent me,

Chris Ryan did too, but Duncan sent me this photograph of his girlfriend made meatballs, elk meatballs, and they were sitting there eating with their friends. They had a friend over for dinner with some meat from an animal that I shot with a bow and arrow. You you provided i'm giving it to them it's it's it's fantastic it's a beautiful warm feeling right and it connects you in some weird primal way that we're immune to we're not getting it anymore we're not getting it and for me people ask why

because i've always been drawn to to wild places um big wild places, people ask why, because I've always been drawn to wild places, big wild places. And people ask, how did that start? For me, how that started was I didn't come from anything. I didn't have anything. I was just a guy who couldn't even afford an elk license for a few, you know, it was $25. I couldn't afford it. But so I felt like, I don't know. I didn't feel special in any way. I didn't feel like I had any advantage over anybody. I felt lower class

essentially. But in the wilderness, when I went, there could be the richest guy in the world. There could be the most powerful businessman, but if he was there and I was there, all of a sudden the playing field was equal. And if I'm in better shape than him, I'm above him. In the mountains, I can be somebody. I can be special. And that's how I prepare. And that's why I liked it back there is I didn't have to conform to society's, well, this guy is an A-lister. You are nothing.

You know what I mean? That's what was always drawing me to that because it was a level playing field for me. And if I came in more of like a beast than somebody else, all of a sudden I was the guy back there. That's what I did. And it was just like I didn't have anything. And I thought this is the only way I'm going to achieve my dreams, you know, is get to where I can be in control. achieve my dreams, you know, is get to where I can be in control. Well, it gives you an understanding of that environment, that this environment really doesn't care that you make six figures.

It doesn't care that you drive a BMW. It doesn't care that you have a nice house. It doesn't care. It doesn't care. This is, there's, in a lot of ways, like I gravitate towards absolutes. That's one of the reasons why I like martial arts. It's one of the reasons I like pool. Like if that ball drops in the hole,

it's because you made it drop in the hole. If you miss, you miss. And there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. It's an absolute thing. And I think in a lot of ways, hunting is similar in that way. Like it doesn't care. Like if you're playing pool and you're a millionaire

and you're playing against a guy who has $2 in his bank, the balls don't know this. They don't care. And it's the same in the woods. When you are out there and you're in that environment, that is an absolute environment. And absolute also in the fact that if you fucking zig when you should have zagged and you run across a sow grizzly and her cubs

and she just decides today's your day, they don't give a fuck if you host the UFC. That bear doesn't give a fuck if you're the UFC that bear doesn't give a fuck if you're the CEO of your company and you're out there it doesn't care the wilderness is it's own world it has it's own rules

it's unforgiving and it's absolute and like that arrow hitting the artery or hitting the vitals of an elk if it doesn't if it doesn't hit it doesn't hit i mean it's it's got to go where it's supposed to go or it or you fucked up you know and there there's uh you know that is real i mean it's that's not just talk that's not talk where you zig where you should have zagged um and you know roy's story is a perfect example of that. With your friend. Explain who Roy is.

Roy is, he's who got me started in bow hunting, and he is the toughest man I've ever met. I've shared more experiences with Roy in the mountains, these life-defining type experiences that we've talked about. And, you know, the bond we've created together has been over a handful of experiences you know and you you realize when you're out of your comfort zone like that and when you're both so committed to a pursuit those bonds form quickly you know and so we've formed a strong bond over a handful of experiences over a couple years well roy and i um you know we went to high school together we started bow hunting as you I think 18, 19 years old and had hundreds of experiences, life changing, life defining experiences together over the years. So our bond naturally was like brothers.

And, you know, he was when everybody doubted me when I was growing up and doubted my dream of ever becoming anything. He never did. He was always the guy that believed in me. Well, this year, up sheep hunting. He was up sheep hunting where we had sheep hunted before together. And I killed a ram. And it was, you know, it's a, it's a tough, difficult, dangerous hunt. And he, uh, but he's more prepared or he was more prepared for hunts like that than anybody in the world. He's done it. He's done it as much as anyone that I know.

And I've been successful. I think he's killed, had killed nine rams and he one misstep, And he, one misstep, he fell and died. Prime of his life, essentially, 49 years old. Just, you know, a father, husband, three kids, somebody who even the toughest Alaska hunters looked up to. One step, gone. And that's, you know, that's, so it's not just talk when you say zig, you should have zagged there's risk, but that's, I mean, if you're going to, it, it just puts everything in perspective. That's the allure to it because I can speak for Roy and I, cause I know we, we always have known about the risks. That was part of the draw is we wanted to go where nobody else wanted

to go or do things that nobody else wanted to do. That was the only thing that made us different. And it goes back, that made us different. And it goes back to, you know, the level of the playing field. Well, we felt like, well, if we would go and do the hardest hunts and the toughest conditions, nobody else would want to do that. But we would all sudden we were calling the shots. We don't call the shots. The mountain calls the shots. And on that, that hunt, the mountain one at Roy fell and he died and it's, uh, it fell 700 feet, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, you know, that where he fell just tough, unforgiving sheep country. And, you know, once you start going there, you're not going to stop.

It's one of the most dangerous hunts. Sheep, yeah, yeah. It's, you know, on that hunt specifically, they give 100 tags. And a lot of times there's just one sheep killed. It's that difficult. And I think 40% of the people never even go because of the weather, because of the conditions, because it's so hard. So they draw the tag and don't even get up the hill. Well, wasn't that, that was the case with you when you went up there grizzly hunting.

You were supposed to go sheep hunting as well, right? Yeah. No, it was moose hunting. Moose hunting, right. We were going to do a moose-sheep combo, but there was so much snow we couldn't even get to sheep country. And that was the plan. We were going to go sheep hunting.

And that was with Roy. That was with Roy, right. So we had an amazing moose hunt together, and I killed a nice big bull. We just had just another epic adventure, you know a hunt that maybe a handful people would want to do because we were so far back you know miles back and had to haul a moose out over the mountain in the snow uh very very very difficult hunt but the ones it was just it it was perfect because it was our last hunt together he died

two weeks later and that hunt encapsulated everything about us it was just hard it was miserable and it was rewarding and and you know we achieved success where not very many people would have and we did it together and uh yeah i mean and then two weeks later was his sheep hunting there's an iconic photo that i think was forever going to define you from that hunt it's with you with a big cut in your face and blood streaming down your face and you sent it to me while you were out there yeah you were you're saying we haven't we haven't got one yet yeah we're out here hustling yeah and uh there's this photo of you looking grizzled as fuck. Yeah with blood coming on your face snow in the background. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah That's that's Cameron Haynes

It is because in Roy and I always would we would always say we can make an easy hunt hard Because we wanted to be hard Well, you went into an area where very few people were having success and even with rifles right you're going deep deep into this area it was a rifle area so that means you a bow hunter had a different size of animal that was legal or if you're hunting with a so if you're hunting this area it was a rifle area had to be a little bigger so i had to be 50 inches wide but had to have four brow tines, which, so you're, you're, you're making it harder. So we were there in the, in the rifle area and we got it done. And it was, it was the hunt that it was a hunt that

that's what we love. We loved hard. We just love the test. Now, when you go out there, does a bow hunter have a different standards than a rifle hunter? Like if you were there with a rifle, would you have to have shot a bigger bull? No, that was, I went to the bigger area. I went to the big area. So in the bow area, it only has to have three brow tines, the moose. In the rifle area, it had to have four. So I had to find one with four. Well, mine had five on one side, four on another. So it was good. And it was over 50 inches wide. So it was legal all the way around. But if I would have just focused on the bow area, it could have been a lesser bull in regard to brow tine. And they do this to make sure, again, that the mature animals are harvested so that the younger animals can breed. And so this is all calculated by wildlife

biologists to make sure that they have healthy populations of these animals. Yeah. Just that, you know, mature bull has served his purpose, so to speak. he's bred the animals over the years he's probably on the decline so it's a perfect time to take him out so that's not what people you know people associate it almost instantly with oh you're fucking trophy hunting you know like oh you just want a bigger rack like they do that specifically because it's for the health of the population of these animals yeah i mean we you know we care about the animals we care about and do like to kill a big animal, but there's, it's dual purpose.

We want to kill a big animal because it's, uh, it's awesome. It's hard. It's hard to kill an older, mature animal, especially with the bow. So that's hard to do.

And then also on the dual purpose side is it helps the health the health of the herd so we're you know we're doing the best we can but most of all you know when you go back to uh to bow hunting in general it's just for me it's just the test the ultimate test is something that's very hard and that's the draw yeah and that's that hunt also really exemplifies why your hard work is so important. First of all, you shot the moose at 90 yards, which is an incredible. I mean, we were shooting today at 45 yards and as far as fuck. I never said how far I shot that moose until right now.

I just told people. Sorry. Well, listen, I mean, you know, Tim Gillingham, we were talking about on the Gritty Bowman podcast, who is a world champion archer who was talking about routinely shooting animals over 100 yards. And then he does this because he's a world champion archer, and he can do that. When you're shooting a moose, the distance that you can shoot a moose versus a guy like me who, by the way, I still shoot every day. But I can't do that. It's not an ethical distance for me, but it is for you.

And to have to haul that animal out. Sorry to blow up your spot about 90 yards. I thought you already told people. But it was a perfect shot. Right. I mean, but that's a funny area with shooting something like a rifle shot at 90. First mule deer, that mule deer right there to your left, that was 200 yards. That was the first time I ever pulled a trigger on anything.

Yeah. Anything. Right. And that was 200 yards. But with a rifle i ever pulled a trigger on anything yeah anything right and i and that was 200 but of the rifle that's normal you get you get a rest with the rifle you just you know you don't punch the prone line on my stomach the whole thing was perfect yeah i mean the rifle is a tool you just let it perform it's going to work yeah you know the bow hunt with a bow it's just a lot of variables. So all of your preparation, the shooting every day for years and decades, really, and then also your physical fitness to be able to pack out. I mean, a moose is, how much pounds did that thing weigh? We had about 600 pounds of meat.

That's just the meat? Just the meat. I mean, how much did the animal weigh? Oh, I don't know. Over, I mean, 1, much did the animal weigh? Oh, I don't know. Over, I mean, 1,200 pounds, probably 1,000. I don't know. It's an enormous, enormous animal. Yeah.

Until you see one, like, and you're there physically next to it, you don't realize. No. It took us hours to break. You know, I killed it. It was in the evening. And Roy and I, we had cameramen there, but they ended up just, they filmed a little bit of the process of breaking it down. Then they headed back to the spike camp. And Roy and I stayed there, which we liked just doing it by ourselves back there together, singing.

What were you singing? He would always sing. I don't know. What kind of stuff did he sing? You know, country girl shake it for me, a little Luke Bryan maybe. A little,

a little Lady Gaga, I think. Oh God. Yeah. He was a well-versed, terrible singer. But it was, it's just what we did.

Right. You know, it was also, just part of the, part of the deal. You were happy. Oh. Successful hunt. It was, it's just what we did. Right. You know, it was also just part of the, part of the deal. You were happy. Oh, successful hunt. It was, you know, God, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna miss those times with him

because, uh, it's just hard knowing that the journey we'd been through together. That's why it's so appreciated. And, you know, who else, you know, there's another example of we hunted this year and hunted the brown bear together. And, uh, he, uh, I killed this bear, the sow went over and was attacking the corpse of the bear, but the bear died. She didn't know what was going on. She smelled blood, just went crazy. The, these brown bear are, they're big predators and something goes in their head. It's going to have an issue. So she heard when I shot the boar, it made a noise. It sort of ran towards her. She stood up, didn't know what was going on knew he had made this noise so she ran towards where

he was well as soon as she hit his path she smelled the blood from where my arrow passed through him so she tracked him by the blood just basically running smelling blood blood blood she got to him and he had died already she started attacking him you know this is just what they do these are you know these aren't crying, hugging bear. And so she's going, and I'm with Roy, and I'm like, I said, she's tearing up my bear. And I'm like, get off my bear. And I'm yelling to her. I'm like, you know, and so I tell Roy, I'm like, I said, shoot out there.

So he shoots, boom. And she's like, didn't even, you know, he didn't shoot at her. He just was making a noise. Just a scare. Nothing. And I'm like, hey, get off that bear. And she's like, not didn't even, you know, he didn't shoot at her. He just was making the noise, just to scare nothing. And I'm like, Hey, get off that bear. And she looked up and then she like saw us all of a sudden here she comes sprinting. And it was like, what is going on? And, uh, she's like a blood frenzy. Yeah.

Just, it was so much going on at one time and then it got something triggered in her head and she was just crazy. So here she comes and I killed my bears in a Creek. She got to the Creek and Roy says, he says, if she doesn't stop, I'm going to have to shoot her. And I said, yeah. So she comes up to our side of the Creek and I have an arrow knocked and you know, I don't know what I'm going to do with an arrow, but it's, I don't have, I never pack a gun. So I said my bow and he had he had the gun. She stands up at 20 yards away and we're standing there and it's a standoff. And so we think, well, she stood up.

She's going to see what's going on. There's three of us standing there and she's going to say, OK, I'm drop down and leave. So we're like, get out of here. And she drops down beeline right towards us i mean 20 yards charging and so roy boom and he uh he drops her you know one shot made a good shot he hit like missed her head but hit like right here and just folded her right there and it was what what the what stands out for me is that, you know, we were we were never worried about our lives were at stake. We're never worried about, you know, like maybe a typical reaction would be like, oh, my God, we could have died or something like that.

I I was just like I cussed because I'm like I was mad. She did that and required Roy to act, you know? So I was just, I cussed and he's like, he's like, dude, I had to. And, uh, so we weren't worried about ourselves. We were just, we didn't want to have to kill another bear and we weren't nervous about the situation. And I'm like, I said, I know. And it was like, where else am I going to have somebody that's on that same page with me that's calm in that situation and not see their life flash before their eyes? Just do what you have to do to stop the risk. That's never going to happen. I'm never going to have somebody like that in my life again. And I think about we were, you know, we knew the risks were involved

in everything that we did and we embraced it and we were fine with it and it, and it didn't consume us or anything. And that's, that's what I'm going to miss is having somebody so on my same page that I can trust like that. You know, Roy was the best. You would have to have someone who's experienced that as many times as Roy has had, where where it was he knew exactly what he had to do in that moment yeah he did and he and it's people know what they have to do it's it's executing that is what's hard you know and uh so knowing what it takes not panicking being in control and then getting the job done with one shot very rare and he was so roy in those situations was as you know i don't know everybody i haven't been with everybody but i would say he's as good as anybody that that i know of you know and uh um that's why

you know when he fell and i got the news that he fell and died, I mean, I could believe it, I guess, but I was mad. And I'm still mad. And I know everything happens for a reason. And I know, you know, he has a lot of faith. And I know, you know, we want to think everything's going to be okay and we'll see each other again. I know all that but it still makes me mad um because you know we missed or we missed out on a lot of experiences we'd still love to have and we talked about and we were just like, we had these big, big goals and big dreams.

And I'm mad that that's gone. So. It's completely, it's not, it's not just understandable. It's, um, it's something that very few people could probably relate to the kind of intimate friendship that you would have with someone who's experienced those kinds of hunts. It's been in the, in the wilderness that's done like that moose hunt that you would have with someone who's experienced those kind of hunts. It's been in the wilderness that's done like that moose hunt that you were talking about when you guys were deep, deep in the wilderness like that.

It's something that very few people will ever experience, that kind of danger, that kind of intimate moment in the wilderness, just that connection to the wild that you guys had together. Right. And so the whole point, I guess, with all that is people say, well, you're murderous or you want to kill. Such a small part of what me and Roy experienced together, such a small part of what me and Roy experienced together, the kills were, I mean, they were,

we achieved our goal. That was it. It was the journey. It was the brotherhood. It was, you know, growing up and that's what, that's what hunting is. It's not just you're out killing, It's not just you're out killing. It's you're experiencing nature at its most brutal or its most rewarding or the entire gamut. And when that makes you who you are, it's powerful. And that's what hunting was to us. Yeah, there's a lot of people that are listening to this, I'm sure. There's a lot of people that are listening to this, I'm sure. They're like, well, you know, why is that? Why should you feel any worse for your friend than we should for the animals that you killed?

You know, there's a lot of people that they sort of connect animals almost with people in a way or maybe even better than people in a way. Maybe. And I think that's a good part of this disconnect that we're talking about. These people that they don't experience these, these moments. They don't, they don't know anybody like that. They don't have a friendship with someone like Roy.

They don't, they haven't had these experiences like you did with him. Yeah. It's, uh, I mean, when you sent me the text, I'm sorry to interrupt you,

but you sent me the text when, when he died. And, uh, I knew, you know, I text. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you sent me the text when he died, and I knew that had to be just devastating too. It still is. Yeah. I mean, I don't think there's very few men like Roy. He was capable. there's uh there's very few men like roy uh he was he was uh capable um he was uh just somebody you could count on anybody could count on and um it's just you know tough to replace well it's very easy to get by in this world today

it's very easy to get by without being that kind of a person it's very difficult to become that kind of a person to always make the right decisions to always push ahead to always always show character to always be someone that you can count on it's hard yeah it's a society today is too easy I believe and so that's why I think that's kind of the draw for me to pushing myself the way I do physically, mentally. I don't like if something's easy, I'm not attracted to it. I want to be hard. I want it to be hard. I want it to be difficult.

And because society makes us weak, it makes us feel entitled. And I don't like it. entitled. Um, and I don't like it. Um, I, I don't, you know, every day I feel unless I'm beat down or tired or whatever, I don't feel like I, I achieved what I needed to achieve that day. And it's just, you know, I, I can't expect anybody else to feel like that. That's just me. Everybody else is motivated, motivated by different things, have different priorities. Everybody else is motivated by different things, have different priorities. I'm just for me. And so finding somebody who has the same mindset as me can be tough.

It's very rare. It's hard for people to gravitate towards challenge. But through challenge, you get the greatest reward. Because through staying in bed, the call of the bed is strong. The warm bed and just, oh, let me just hit fucking snooze in this alarm clock and get nine more minutes. Or let me just shut it off and call in sick to work. Let me just not do what I'm supposed to do. Let me just sleep.

And there was an article that I posted recently where they were talking about the power that dopamine has, dopamine and memories. And it's one of the reasons why people have such a hard time kicking bad habits is because we gravitate towards these, like, reward experiences that we have in our head, the reward of eating shitty food or of drinking too much or it's your your mind sort of carves these paths towards these Rewarding like almost self-destructive behaviors because those they give you dopamine whether I'm eating shitty food or whatever But it's the rare person whose mind gravitates towards the reward of accomplishment The reward of pushing yourself through a very very difficult circumstance very difficult challenge to get to that reward of accomplishment, the reward of pushing yourself through a very, very difficult circumstance, very difficult challenge to get to that feeling of accomplishment like you get, I'm sure, when you run a marathon or like you get when you get to the top of

the mountain, when you're pushing, when you don't want to and you get to it and you did it and you know that you overcome this weakness inside of you that wants you to quit. Right. That everybody experiences at some point in their life. And it's a matter of how you react to that experience and how you react to that, that pull, the pull towards the bed is strong. Yeah. The pull towards weakness is strong because it's so easy to do. It's so easy to quit. It's easy to quit. It is. See it all the time. It's one reason why, I mean, it seems minor, but you know,

when I get up at four or five in the morning, I have to be at work at seven. But when I get up early to do my fasted cardio runs, um, and I'm out and so I have no fuel, I'm out there. There's nobody out at four or five in the morning and I'm running into the neighborhoods by my house. All the lights are off. I just envision people in there comfortable sleeping. And I feel like, you know, it's, it's, I feel, I feel the best then when I, you know, it's like when I run the mountain, when it's sunny, I don't feel as good as when I run it, when it's pouring rain, because it's easy to go out and do it when it's sunny. If I run, you know, on a weekend in the middle of the day, lots of people out there, I don't feel that accomplished when I do it at four or five in the morning when nobody's out there. And it's just like that in my head and I, my head might

not be normal, but I, I just love, you know, and people always say, well, you know, all that running, you're going to be in a wheelchair by the time you're 60. And I'm like, who's guaranteed to live to 60? I mean, I might die tomorrow. So what am I supposed to do? Save myself for what? I want to know that I gave all I have every day because tomorrow is not guaranteed. So, I mean, I just don't get it.

I have a hard time with that that mindset of the the the moderation mindset. Those people are saying that they're peering through the curtains while you're running by their house. I think they're asleep. He's going to he's going to wind up in a wheelchair. Not me. I mean, it's, you know, so some people, some people criticize and maybe, maybe I will be on a wheelchair, but I'll know that I lived as hard as I could live and, and push as hard as I could when I could do it. I'm not going to regret it. someone down for working hard and overcoming extreme obstacles what they're doing is they're responding to their own insecurity I mean there's logical things there's people that's you know this there's people that look at certain types of extreme sports where you know there's that BMX guy was his name Dave Mira who just committed suicide horrible horrible tragedy you know husband father the whole, I gotta think it's

connected to head trauma. And, um, I think you're talking about a completely different thing when you're talking about head trauma. Cause you know, these poor guys that do these extreme sports, they wind up getting really banged up and that causes some pretty severe depression. So I think in circumstances like that, I think you're talking about a kind of a different animal but people will criticize people who take chances in life people will criticize people who work hard you know like why do you have to lift weights why do you like there was an article that we had talked about that some asshole had written in some bow hunting magazine about you no it was online yeah yeah whatever it was yeah he's just

talking shit about you like why does you know he have to you know you don't have to lift weights like this guy you don't have to one of this is ridiculous well guess what yeah you do if you want to do what you can do you have to yeah I mean and what he's doing by writing that is looking at someone who works harder than him accomplishes more than him and he's trying to chop you down and that's crabs in a bucket man that's people do you ever see crabs in a bucket if you don't know what i'm talking about folks if you see crabs in a bucket they never get out of that fucking bucket because if they work together one crab could stand on another crab and the other crab ground on top

and then they could figure out a way to push that bucket over and they could all get out but nope what happens is one crab tries to get to the top and the other crabs pull them down and that's what a lot of people are a lot of people are crabs in a bucket and it's just a weakness and an insecurity and a lot of times it's because they don't know anybody like you they don't know anybody like roy they don't know anybody that can push them they don't know anybody that they can they can look at their friend and they could say you know this motherfucker can do it. I can do it too. If this guy, if I know what he would do right now, he's going to like, here's a funny story. I was in, um, Texas with, uh, Aubrey and, uh, we were pig hunting and, um, we were in this fucking miserable environment. There were so many

mosquitoes. It was brutal. I mean, we were just getting mauled by the end of the day. I mean, it looked like I had some kind of crazy disease. Like my whole body was covered in mosquito bites. And I thought to myself while I was out there, if Cam Haines was out here, he would fucking keep going. He would just deal with the fact that mosquitoes are biting him and he would keep going. And Aubrey said, how the fuck did you get through all those mosquitoes? And I said, I thought that if Cam Haines was out here, he would keep going. He goes, that's hilarious. He goes, I thought if joe rogan can do it i can do it

so you without even be there pushed me and me because i kept going it pushed him but we were it was fucking miserable we were it's a cloud of mosquitoes we just swarmed on well you know i mean it's you know it is a funny story but i do in some way feel responsibility to the people that follow me or look up to me to not give up i i know people look to me for inspiration and you know and it helps it's like when i don't feel like doing something i think about all the people who expect me to. I mean, I have a huge drive to do it myself, but it's just like sometimes those little things and thinking about, you know, this story with you or people who have lost 100 pounds thinking about, you know, the work I put in. It's like all those things have made me who I am. So it's, it's not like I might think about specific stories, but I think about all the people who have been such a positive, uh, I M they've made such a

positive impact on me because I guess I haven't on them, you know, so in return and it, and it makes me, you know, it's like the, like the big foot 200 that I'm doing, if I'm just on my own and nobody knows who I am, I'm much less, much less, uh, much are not as tough, um, much less resilient as the guy I'm going to be who will line up to run the Bigfoot 200 in August, because I'll feel like I'll have an army of people helping me push me. And I just think that that's, you know, as a society, that's a type of things we need to focus on, I believe. Inspiration's a two-way street. Yeah, definitely.

When you inspire people, those people, like I do these meet and greets after shows all the time. And I can't tell you how many people I'll come up to after a show that say, I lost 100 pounds. Once I started listening to your podcast, I started eating healthy. I started looking at my body in a different way. I started realizing like I will be happier if I took care of myself. And then I'm happier when I do force myself to

exercise. And now I do it every day and I'm drinking kale shakes and I'm eating healthy foods and I stopped drinking and all this. And it makes me feel better. I mean, I think about it when I work out. I think that's where inspiration is a two-way street. And then it's also like we were talking about, like you've created a community through your social media and through the positive posts that you make and through all your actions and all the different things you've done. You've created this sort of sense of community where all these other people, they feed off of that and you feed off of them and we all feed off of each other. Yeah. And through this podcast too, man. This has been an inspirational podcast. they feed off of that and you feed off of them and we all feed off of each other. Yeah. No. And through this podcast too,

man, this has been a, I mean, this is an inspirational podcast. I'm going to listen to this podcast when I work out tomorrow. Yeah. When I, when I do my morning workout tomorrow, I'm going to put this on my headphones and I'm going to listen to this.

I'm going to listen to specifically to the story about you and Roy. Yeah. And that, you know, people want to be that kind of person. You know, people don't want to be a lazy fuck who criticizes people for no reason. They don't want to be that guy that's weak and that talks shit about someone when they're not there

because they feel bad that that person is out there working out. Like, you don't have to do what Cam Haynes is doing. Like, shut the fuck up. You know what you're doing, bitch. You know what you're doing when you're doing that. While you're doing it, you know what you're doing. While you're making those, you know there's a little sneaky voice in the back of your head. Unless you're completely obtuse. Unless you're completely it, you know what you're doing. While you're making those, you know. There's a little sneaky voice in the back of your head. Unless you're completely obtuse.

Unless you're completely oblivious to the way you interact and interface with the world. You know what you're doing when you're saying those things. You're trying to chop someone down because they make you feel weak. Instead of saying, this guy is out there doing something awesome. What's negative about someone working out and being healthy? What's negative about someone who values physical fitness and accomplishing difficult goals? That is the essence of character. That's the essence of what's inspirational about a person.

I'm not inspired by someone who sleeps till 2. I'm not inspired by someone who can't not eat shitty food and loves to smoke. I'm inspired by discipline. Discipline. I love discipline. And you talked about The Rock. Guys like The Rock. Yes.

And The Rock is out to 40 million. You get out to, how many will listen to this podcast? I don't know. It would be more than a million for sure. Millions. And over the course of how many years this is out there in the world? Right. So I'm inspired by you, The Rock.

And so in my own little bow hunting world, I just try to live up to that. And, you know, I guess what I want to, I want to thank you for giving me this platform and giving me access to all you've created here. Because, you know, as we've talked about, that's what feels good to reach people, inspire people. And yeah, maybe they'll be inspired, maybe even a little by the heartbreak of losing a good buddy, you know, maybe to be a better friend or maybe to be somebody who, I don't know, that integral part of somebody else's life, maybe that'll inspire them. Maybe the workout part.

Who knows? Maybe to be a better, I don't know, more understanding to the vegans and be able to explain it better. There's so much you can take from this podcast. And without you giving me this microphone, it would never happen. So I want to thank you. And I'm so grateful. I'm so happy I've met you and we've created this friendship. I couldn't be more happy myself.

And, again, that inspiration is a two-way street. This podcast doesn't exist if it's not for other people. I mean, all I am is like an antenna or something. It's broadcasting my thoughts and other people's thoughts too. And without a guy like you to introduce me to something like bow hunting, I would have no idea. I would have gone to my grave without having any idea how rewarding it is to go and get my own meat through archery in the woods. How difficult it is to pursue such an incredibly demanding discipline. Right.

And what that's about. And for you being inspirational and for you creating those videos, you reached me. And you touched me with your positivity and with your inspiration and with your dedication and focus. And I live for that, man. I live for inspiration. That's my fuel. I love it. I love inspiring people. I love people that are inspiring me and I love inspiring other people. I love inspiration. I think it's one of the most, one of the most powerful aspects about our newfound ability to communicate with each other. Right. Social media. So you can be a negative anchor or you can inspire. So maybe that's the message of the podcast today.

Just get out there. Like I say, make a positive difference. Yes. That's it. And we can all do it. It doesn't have to be big. It doesn't have to be a 40 million or 10 million or 1 million. I can be to one guy.

Yes. Make a positive difference. We can all do it. And we can all do it in our own way and It's the better way to live. It's the better way to live this this World that we're living in right now is essentially a global community. That's coming to Awaken it's it's aware of itself now in a way that's never been before we can communicate with each other like you know It's never been before.

We can communicate with each other. There's this strange new time where you can seek out shit that pisses you off. You can just fucking spend all day on Kanye West's Instagram page and get angry. You can just scour through all the worst aspects of all sorts of different people. Or you can choose to be inspired. You can choose to live your life in a powerful and dedicated way. But there's only one way to do that. It's through action.

Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah, it is a choice, man. But it's a good choice. It's a great choice to make. Through that choice, you enrich yourself and you enrich the other people that you come in contact with.

And then we're stronger, stronger as a society. And it's, no, we're not perfect people, folks. No, we're all,

we're all fuck up. We all get mad when we shouldn't get mad. We all falter. And through those lessons of, of, of failure, sometimes the disappointment you have in yourself when you come up short is the fuel you need to make sure you never come up short that way again.

And maybe you'll come up short in another way next week. You know, well, that fucking thing's never going to happen again either. And you've got to find a way. It's a process. Yeah, it is a process. And that's one of the things that I really try to drill into people's heads. You know, they go, how have you done so many things? I've done so many things because I've sucked at all of them.

Everything I've ever tried I sucked at in the beginning. Everything. You fail, and then you learn how to not fail. How do you do that? Well, you take goddamn chances. That's how you start bow hunting at 45. You've got to fucking take chances. And if you don't take chances, if you stay within your comfort zone,

man, that's not a fun life. No. It's not a fun life. No. It's a cushiony life. Yeah. I mean, it's probably a little safer. It's insulated. And that's what I'd always respected about you is when you started bow hunting and, you know, because I know firsthand how difficult it is.

So you've been successful in so many different arenas, right? And been Joe Rogan. All of a sudden, Joe Rogan is a new bow hunter who doesn't know shit about anything. And it's like for you to say, I'm okay with that, that's a big deal. Most people who have been so successful don't want to be starting out on ground zero again. on ground zero again so i mean for you to do that and then and then become so just disciplined and enamored with the the discipline of bow hunting has been awesome and uh i love it i love doing things i suck at most people don't that's why i like yoga man i mean it's why uh like when we're working out today you have that same sort of approach to it. Like, we were showing you all these crazy new exercises. And you were gravitating towards the ones you weren't good at.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, that's, yeah. I mean, I love pushing myself. It's like, when I work out with new people, I love exposing them to, I said, okay, this workout doesn't start until you're miserable. And then once you're miserable, then it counts because everybody can do it when it's easy. Right. Okay. Now you can't do it. Now we start.

Yeah. And it's just like, I, I, you know, I had a good, I, I just like exposing people and what I would say, you know, and people, other people have said it too. I had to invent this, but being comfortable from being uncomfortable and that's just getting in that moment where, this, but being comfortable from being uncomfortable and that's just getting in that moment where, okay, now I'm here. Now I want to start gaining, you know, and that's, that's just the, that's the journey that anything that has a big reward is going to require that. Well, that's the essence of jujitsu. The essence of jujitsu is being comfortable while you're uncomfortable because everybody

gets tapped. There's no way to get good at jujitsu unless you get mauled by another person. It's the only way. And for me, I started jiu-jitsu as a former taekwondo champion who would spend my whole life. I was successful at striking. My whole life I had done different forms of striking competitions. And then all of a sudden I'm doing jiu-jitsu

and getting fucking crushed by people who are my size or smaller, and they're just beating the piss out of me. Like I'm a rag doll. Like I'm a grappling dummy. And for me, I had realized, first of all, I had to address the fact that I was nowhere near as competent in self-defense as I thought I was. Like as soon as these guys got a hold of me, they were just strangling me. I was like as soon as these guys got a hold of me they were just strangling me I was like okay like my perception of what I could do versus the reality of what I could do it was I had to I had to just address it I had to figure it out and so okay now

I gotta get fucking crazy and attached to this shit and then I became like completely obsessed with that about of training and getting and but that's one of the beautiful things about jiu-jitsu one of the things about jiu-jitsu that i admire most in the truly good practitioners is they have very healthy egos because their their their egos get tested yeah they're in check all the time they're constantly tapping yeah you could tap all the time yeah i mean i don't think i've ever gone more than a few months in my whole life without tapping. Well, and that's the same with bow hunting. Don't start bow hunting unless you can deal with failure. Yeah.

You know, it's a humbling, just like, just like, you know, the discipline you're talking about. Bow hunting is a discipline just like that where it will humble you no matter how good you think you are. Yeah. Yeah. I think all very difficult things are good for you. I mean, as long as it doesn't kill you, it's good for you.

I mean, like these goddamn ultra marathons you're running, this crazy fuck, 100 miles is not enough. You're like, well, I've already done that a couple of times. Now I've got to do a 200. So here's the Bigfoot 200. Here's quick facts Jamie just pulled up. Just under 50,000 feet of ascent. 15,240 meters of ascent. More than 96,000 feet of ascent. 15,240 meters of ascent.

More than 96,000 feet of elevation change. 203.8 miles nonstop, point to point. Six sleep stations with full aid, hot food, medical and crew access. 16 full aid stations. The race starts at Mount St. Helens in the Cascade Mountain Range of Washington State and finishes in Randall, Washington traversing point to point the Cascade Mountains

that's insane so my goal with it and I've never done a 200 obviously the furthest I've run is 106.5 miles in 24 hours so this will be a new test and my goal for this and I don't even know if it's possible, I don't want to sleep.

I don't want to take advantage of any of those sleep stations. I want to be able to push through and finish in 60 hours. And last year, 64 hours won it. And I'm trying to, that's what I'm training. You want to beat that? I want to beat that. I want to beat 64, and I just want to grind it out. I want to be better than I've ever been.

And so that's, you know, right now I'm training. I haven't been training this hard this early in the year. So I'm taking it. I'm doing a lot of miles but not hammering hard and trying to build up that base. So come August, I hope to line up there for the Bigfoot 200, and I hope to run it faster than it's ever been run. Jesus Christ. Are you going to lose it faster than it's ever been run. Jesus Christ. Are you going to lose body mass before you do that?

Yeah. Because you're always lifting weights. Like what are you going to do differently? I need to get lighter. You weigh about what, 177? Yeah, right now I am, you know, and I was up 182 or 83. And so I'm trying to, I want to get down, I'd like to get 69 maybe, you know, and I think I just really feel like I'd be efficient at that. And I just, you know, it's, it's, it's physical, but it's a lot mental also.

So, I mean, I'll get my, I'll prepare my body for it, but it's just whether I can hydrate and fuel well enough, smart enough, and just do everything, keep my feet healthy, that's what's going to determine whether I can finish in 60 hours. So I think I believe I have what it takes. But a lot of people probably have what it takes. But to implement it is going to be difficult. But I'm, I can't wait. I wish it was tomorrow. What's the percentage of people who start that thing versus complete it? I don't know. I think it was tomorrow. What's the percentage of people who start that thing versus complete it? I don't know. I think it's a pretty high percentage because if you line up for 200, you didn't just decide to do that. Right.

You know what I mean? These people are crazy. They've put in a lot of training. And so if they're crazy enough, I mean, it's $1,000 to run it. So if they're crazy enough to pay the entry fee, line up there, they didn't just, it wasn't on a whim. It was, they've geared their life toward it. It's crazy, too, because it's not 1,000 miles. I mean, it's not 200 miles on a flat track.

No, it's mountains. Mountains. I mean, you know that 50,000 feet of ascent? Oh, my God. What is that, two Mount Everest? Jesus Christ. What is Mount Everest, 30,000 feet? I think it's 26. Jesus. feet of ascent oh my god that's what what is that to mount everest jesus christ you know what is mount everest 30 000 feet i think it's 26 jesus something like that so i mean it's two of those and i mean but but and it has that same uh so it's 96 000 feet of change so what that means

is you're grinding up as much as you're hammering down and that down breaks your quads down as you know because you have to slow yourself down is this it this is a video of it yep so that's that's the country that it's in what is this guy doing he's walking run bitch yeah what are you doing why are you walking well there's like oh my god this is the country yeah this is it you can't run this wait a minute hold on a second yeah it's like this yes oh fuck hardest ultra in the usa how do you know which way to go how do you go left or right there'll be ribbons so there's probably ribbons that'll mark but this isn't no you're not on a bike trail this is the hardest ultra in the usa we need to document this

we need this is 200 miles of this and if you try to run here's what i learned with ultras if you try to run where it's super steep all you're doing is gonna blow your legs out right i mean so you have to get good at hiking too because you hike the super steep stuff or this isn't even runnable really but you don't even want to try so it's all about being efficient and managing managing your resource but it's it's a test that's uh to put it mildly yeah so i mean that i i don't know. This is what I live for. But listen, dude, there's a problem, and that is that this is in August, and you need to be healthy in September because we've got to go back. We're bowhunting in September.

It's all mental. It's not all mental, man. There's definitely some physical involved in that. Yeah. How many people have completed it? I don't know. Jamie, what is that one nutty run that you told me about that very few people know about? The Barclays? Yeah. How many people have completed it? I don't know. Jamie, what is that one nutty run that you told me about that very few people know about? The Barclays, I believe is what it's called.

Have you heard about this? Yeah, that's intense. What is that? That's like a, I don't even know if there's really a course. There's no course. It's really loose. It's not marked. You can get lost.

You have to have your own map. Oh, great. Yeah, and it's something like 64 miles maybe. But it's like, I mean, you're in swamps. It's nasty. I mean, I think, God, it seems like four people finish or something. They only allow in, it's a small number, 12, I don't know that much. I've heard about it.

One to two people finish it each time. Some people don't finish it. Okay. It's five. You do it, like like if i remember correctly it's uh like one one way up during the day and you come back down during night and then you switch and go the opposite way the next day up and down and then if you can make it to that fifth turn it's all and it's also the same kind of way it's non-stop if you want to sleep you sleep you only have i think a window of like 36 hours total to finish

the whole thing if you can make it. Yeah, maybe 48 hours. But yeah, it's... You got your eye on that fucking thing? I don't know. I mean, to me, the navigation is a whole different animal. You know, I want to be able to... I want to be prepared.

I want to know where the course is roughly. You know what I mean? I don't really want to waste time having to read a map and figure a compass. That's a whole different challenge, which maybe I'll get to that at some point. Right now, I just want to run 200 miles. I want to run that race as fast as it's been run. I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know what my body is going to do.

But I want to find out, and I'm looking forward to it. Wow. That's intense, man. I'll be ready by September. We should document it. I should be like in a Range Rover next to you no that's air conditioning sipping lemonade yeah control a drone yeah oh a drone some of yeah yeah no I'm pretty yeah it's gonna be how does someone document that you would have to have GoPros on or something like that because someone have to go with you people have talked about filming it maybe Under Armour will I'm not sure

how they're gonna do that I don't know you have to have some fucking savage that's willing to run it with you my brother i know my brother's gonna run some of it with me and he's a beast yeah yeah so he's uh he runs he's done 100 before has he run yeah in your family yeah so he's your dad was like uh what was your dad a track and field athlete as well? Yeah, he was, you know, my dad was, I'm not athletic. My dad was a freak. And he had, you know, full scholarships at Oregon, Oregon State for track and field and gymnastics, two different sports. He was pretty tall for a gymnast.

He was around six foot tall, but just crazy ability. He was an amazing athlete. So I didn't get that, but maybe I got enough of it to be tough. you failed at like people that say oh i'm not a really good athlete like what is a really good athlete it's someone who practices the techniques of whatever sport they're trying to do and gets really good at it yeah i mean you're really good at running and you're really good at bow hunting bow hunting is absolutely athletic right well it's like if if golf is a fucking sport what's bow hunting i mean is a problem with calling hunting a sport a lot of people have because i i think it's best described as a discipline right because i don't i don't like to think of it as something that you score points yeah me neither i don't it's too trivial no it's too too much of life but i do think uh there is athleticism

within bow hunting 100 you know especially out west especially in the mounds in alaska um so yeah i mean i i when i think when people think athlete, they think the general sports, track and field, football, basketball, you know, things like that. So, I mean, um, I didn't get that elite athleticism in those sports as my dad did. I mean, I think he had the ability to make the Olympics. Um, but you know, life happened. I was born this or that so he was he was a freak in in what what you might call normal athletic events maybe bow hunting you know qualifies and it's 100% qualifies I mean look at this fighting qualifies athletics I think it does but it's way more intense than regular athletics there's something way more personal and dangerous about the goal of knocking someone unconscious

while they're trying to knock you unconscious. And if fighting, if that counts, if that's athletics, bow hunting is most certainly athletics. But I think we both agree that it's a little bit more intense than a sport. Yeah, definitely. It's more, it's almost disrespectful in a way. Not, I mean, if you consider it a sport, you call it a sport, that's fine. But in my view, it's so much about the life and the reverence for this animal that you hunt and then take. It's not, it's not, we won the Super Bowl.

No. We scored the goal. The ball went in the hole. It's the journey. It's the journey. It's not just the punch tag. So the punch tag, you'd say you'd say well i won yeah i won so in the sport there's a winner and a loser you kill the animal you punch your tag you won

it's not it i mean it's it's the whole journey that leads to that and then also we talk about that getting the meat home and providing for your family how do you score that you can't so i mean yeah it's not a sport in that regard for sure there's it's a discipline and even that word is like it's bowhunting is bowhunting man that's what it is yeah it's on its own it's on its own it's got its own thing and on that note you gotta catch a flight my brother i do thank you again oh so much fun to hang out even just for a few hours it was great to hang out with you in salt lake and wander around all those freaks and their dead animals. Alright, folks. We'll be back tomorrow with my brother Doug

Duren. Wednesday, Boss Rootin and Mauro Ranallo. Woo! That's going to be fun. The original team from, or one of the original teams from Pride Broadcasting. Two great guys. Mauro's an awesome dude. And Boss is the best. And of course, on Friday, Robin Black, who now works for the UFC.

We've got him a job. Yes. So we'll see you soon. Thank you, everybody. Much love. Bye-bye. Later. Later.

Later. Later.