The Joe Rogan Experience - #761 - Bas Rutten

Episode Date: February 17, 2016

Bas Rutten is a retired MMA fighter and former UFC Heavyweight Champion. He currently is the co-host of Inside MMA, and hosts a podcast with Mauro Ranallo called "Rutten & Ranallo." http://www.ruttenandranallo.com/

Dum dum dum dum dum and we're live. Unfortunately Mauro Ranallo is deathly ill and he cannot make it here but the great Bas Rutten, Basito El Guapo is here. Former UFC heavyweight champion and your friend Kevin Randleman unfortunately the guy you won the title from passed away recently. Yeah. That was sad huh?? Yeah, the conspiracy theory was already on. I saw online because he didn't. Mauro didn't do WWE yesterday evening. So they said he was at the funeral of Kevin Rennelman.

I said, no, that's not true. He's really sick at home. But yeah, that was the craziest news. We found out after we just did our podcast. Yeah. And then we went online and Mauro goes like... What happened to him? He got sick? He got sick? Pneumonia? And then his heart gave out.

They couldn't revive him. Well, he had staph infection worse than anybody I've ever seen in my life. Did you ever see some of the pictures? You know what I said to people? If you use smokeless tobacco, you know, that little box, you could literally put in that hole that he had in his chest. Remember that? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. It was insane. Well, we'll show the picture. Jamie, see if you can find the picture. Kevin Randleman, staph infection. I never knew that I could get this bad, but he had holes in his body where you could look in and you'd see all the tissue and tendons. I mean, it's just incredible.

Did you see it there, Jamie? I mean, I'm talking like a fist-size hole. It was crazy. You know, this guy survived everything as well. Look at this. Look at that. It's just incredible. I just don't.

And he fought after this, too, by the way. Yeah, he's insane. He got that fixed up, and he fought afterwards. But when your body is that compromised from something like that, I'm assuming that was MRSA, the medication-resistant staph infection. That stuff is real dangerous, and people die from it all the time. Look at his leg, too. Look how swollen his ankle and his foot is.

Oh, my God. Very scary. Oh, God. And Kevin Reneman in his prime. I mean, what a stud. What a specimen that guy was. To see him that compromised, I mean, I don't know if he just ignored it and it just kept getting worse and worse. I don't know what happened.

I don't know either, you know, but I have the feeling that it's like with all the fighters that were pretty much the same. You're probably the same as well. You know, you have something, you feel bad, you know, your lungs, oh, everything is hurting. Whatever, man. You know, I'll take care of that tomorrow once it gets worse. Not realizing, because we're pushing all the limits all the time,

that at the moment you're feeling it's probably really bad already. You should check it out. But, you know, just push it away. Let's get rid of my... Let's do my work first. And then we'll take care of that later. That was too late. That's the feeling I have. That is a problem with mental toughness in some fighters. They just keep pushing through injuries.

And I've always suspected that that might be the case with Kane. Why Kane keeps getting injured over and over again. And now he's starting to get some serious injuries where he's had back surgery now, both shoulder surgery, knee surgery. I mean, this is a guy in his prime. I mean, I think Kane is only like 33 or something like that, right? He should be regenerating like this, like nothing. As a heavyweight, that's your prime. The early 30s for heavyweights are generally when they really come into their own.

And to see him constantly injured, I've always suspected it's just his mental toughness is almost like a burden because he pushes through everything. You know, Chris Weidman, I think the same thing with his knees. He's had some serious knee problems. It's because they, you know, they have the problem. They just go, fuck it. Let's just keep going. And they can block out pain in a way that, you know, most people, they get a serious knee injury.

They go, boy, I got to go to the doctor. I got to get this checked out. Not when you're in the middle of camp and you're defending your title. You fucking keep pushing through it. Yeah. I'm telling all my students now, because I used to be exactly like all the other guys. I say, if you have an injury and the doctor tells you, take two months off, take four months off.

That's my advice now. Yeah. Take double the amount of, everybody does the opposite. Two months becomes one month or three weeks. Yeah. Don't do that. Don't do that. Because later in life, like with what happened with me, it will backfire for you. It's such a good piece of advice right there because so many guys, especially ACL surgeries, how many times have we seen guys get their knee reconstructed and then they try to get back on the mat too quick and pop.

Pops again. The new knee blows out again and you're looking at another six to nine months. It's so, so common. Look at Dominic Cruz. Also, Benji Reddick, he had like also from a corpse, from an illegal corpse,

he had something in his knee. An illegal corpse? Oh, they had the FBI, yeah. It was illegally obtained. It was, he got a letter from the FBI. He almost lost his leg. And then he had this,

we went to dinner with him one time. He had a machine on him that filtered his blood everywhere he went. He got this crazy infection. And then years later, he gets a letter from the FBI. And it was a guy who was illegally handled in donors, in whatever they need for knees and for everything, like organs. And they found that guy. Yeah, and it was from a cadaver that was infected, and that's why

he had all that problem. Holy shit. It was really crazy. Did he get a discount or something like that? Maybe later. You know, just write it down, rain check for if the other knee happens. Ben Juratic is a guy a lot of people forgot about. He's a fucking talented guy. Very talented.

At the time, they called me crazy. When Anderson Silva was at the peak of his career, I said, if I have six months with Benji, and he would listen to me, because sometimes he gets that ego that, oh, I can strike with him. No, you don't need to. Take him down, then strike him.

Because he would knock people out with one punch. This guy hits so hard, he would hurt my hands on the focus mitts. Wow. I mean, it's the craziest power he has. And I'm telling you, his wrestling was so good, he would just take him down and just beat him up. I guarantee you that.

That's how powerful he was. Wow. You know, there's a lot of guys that don't realize their potential. And Benji Raddick was one of those guys that people would always talk about in the gym. You know, they say, like, boy, if he could figure out how to put it all together. We did a few times at the IFL and when he was training for the Anacondas, he was there. Yeah.

And then he started listening and people go like, man, you transformed him into a kickboxer. No, he's just listening at this moment. But when you face another guy, like for instance, he fought Scott Smith, you know, and I told him, I said, don't brawl with the guy. Yeah, but aren't people going to think I don't want to? I said, well, blame it on me.

Tell him that I said so, otherwise I'm not going to train you anymore. And, of course, the fight starts. Smith comes out, and he starts brawling with the guy. That's what the guy does. Don't do this. Like with Wendell A. Silver, don't brawl with the guy, you know. You've got to pick him apart from the outside and shoot, take him down. He got in trouble at the end of the first round.

Then he took him down, hit him once. It was the end of the round, but almost had Scott Smith. Second round, exactly the same thing. I lost my voice. I just stopped yelling. I said, why don't you take him down? Take him down. Beat him up, knock him out.

It's really that easy for you. Do it. But he didn't. He goes a funny thing when guys want to beat guys at their own game. Or they want to show that they're not afraid to stand with people. Stability. Yeah. It's hard.

It's hard to, you know, that fucking thing that makes you great in the first place, that makes you a fighter in the first place, a lot of times can bite you in the ass. Just don't do what the other person is best at. If there's one thing he's weaker than yours, go do that, whatever it is. Whether it's ground, whether it's striking. Well, that was one thing that GSP was always so good at. He was always so good at imposing his strengths.

Like, if a guy was good at wrestling, he would try to keep the fight standing. If a guy was good at standing, he would take him down. fight standing. If a guy was good at standing, he would take him down. You know, I mean, GSP was so good at that. And being unpredictable, too, as to what his approach was going to be, he thought he was going to strike, and then he's going to take you down. You think he's going to take you down, and then he's going to kick you. He was like the La Jolla.

The La Jolla, every time when he fought, he had new techniques. He used new combinations. And the same thing happened with GSP. Every time you saw him, Josh Koshek, I remember the fight, it was a jab, and it was a spinning back kick to the body. And he nailed it over and over again. You knew that

for the six weeks, eight weeks, whatever he was training, they worked on that. For the rest, you ad-lib a little bit, what you normally do. But, you know, just pepper him. Yeah, the Josh Koshek fight, man, that was an ugly one, when his eyes swole up like that Josh was in Seriously bad shape after that he couldn't fly after that fight Yeah, well that was you know that was one where they hear that they had a drive from I think they had that fight in

Toronto was it Toronto or Montreal I think that was Toronto right no no that was I believe it was Montreal because I think Toronto was Jake Shields that was the big one at the Rogers, because I think Toronto was Jake Shields. That was the big one at the Rogers Center, right? I have no clue. I think so. Either way, he was in Canada, and he had a drive down to Boston, and I believe he had to stay there for a couple weeks before he could even fly back home to San Jose. Wow.

So you think that will blow up in the air as well? I guess. I don't know. It was so bad. It was an orbital fracture. There's a picture of it right there, and that's after the fight. But it was so bad that they had to operate on it. And those blowout fractures of the eyes apparently are extremely painful and very dangerous,

too, because it's the bone behind the eye that gets broken. So they have to go in behind the eye and repair that bone. And sometimes when they do that your eyeball is never the same again it looks different like do you remember bob sap after crocop hit him in pride i believe you called that i called that fight yeah i was there remember crocop cracked him with a left hand was it pride or was it k1 no it was uh that was pride oh wait a minute maybe it was kickboxing i think it. You know, it was because I was actually training Bob Sewell, whatever you call it, training.

I trained him one and a half times. The rest he was doing interviews. Oh, really? I go, dude, this guy right now in Croatia, he's kicking a bag. He wants to kill you because you're on the top of the world right now. He just beat Hoost twice. Yeah, Ernesto Hoost.

That is crazy that he beat him so uh yeah then he came to train with me because i told him before the fight with who's he said if you would fight me where would you go for i go i go for body shots because your stamina and i kick your knees instead of your legs i kick your knees because you have to carry that weight all that right all the time who's dropped him two or three times with the liver shot so after that he came he said i really want to train with you. I said, okay, well, then I'm going to be in Japan anyway, so let's work out. But yeah, he was too busy doing media.

I said, don't do that. He was such a superstar in Japan. He had to capitalize on the amount of money he was able to make. I don't think people in America realize how big, for those few years, Bob Sapp got in Japan. You have no clue. We went out to dinner with him, and they have to close the restaurant and have to let him out at the back. Because you see one person in the front, two, four, boom, and there was a whole group. Couldn't get out anymore.

Wow. You couldn't go through the lobby of the hotel. And it's not like he can blend in. No. A 375-pound man. You know a funny story. He was huge. This was in the Tokyo Post.

They had a picture of him on the cover coming out of like a massage place. And you saw these little girls next to him. And here's the mountain of a man stands there. And all these little girls, they had that little black thing in front of their eyes, you know, that they do so you don't know who that person is. Right, right. And he was upset. He said, why didn't they put one in front of my eyes? I go, yeah.

Even if they blocked your whole head off. That's what I mean. People are going to go, ah, who do you think that is? It was hilarious. Well, when he was fighting in Pride, I mean, he was like a character from a movie. He was like the boss in a video game. You remember? Oh, yeah.

God. It was hilarious. He did all these dances, the Bob Sapp dance. He was in every show. And they just love him. He's a freak. And you know what? The first time when he fought against Noguera, I we're gonna hear from this this guy he he was doing really well against a seasoned guy like

noggera oh yeah eventually okay he lost but he just started yeah i think if he really would would have kept focusing on the same training that he did at the time it would have been a much much tougher guy because he had a lot of talent, physically at least. Well, he was just so fucking big too. He was so big. Maurice was training him at that time. Yeah. Maurice Smith was working with him.

Medium and Merit. Yeah. And they were working with his kickboxing and they were really trying to put some technique to all that muscle. But, you know, you're talking about a guy who legitimately was 375 pounds with abs. I mean, he was like the greatest science project in the history of performance-enhancing drugs. Right?

Yeah. I mean, has there ever been a project like that, guys? Yeah, the blueprint. He's like, this is as far as you can push it before you fucking explode, before your skin just explodes like a water balloon. Oh, man. He was so big.

In the past, you see them with these guys who use a lot, you know, they always are around the fighters They start to become purple, you know, and then suddenly here they died of a heart attack. Yeah, well, I wonder what happened there You know, well he made it through he survived and then he started just quick tapping He started doing all these fights where he would get hit one He would go in hard and if it didn't work out he would just tap. He fought a bunch of guys like that where he would start off the fight really well and then

wind up tapping out. And then he would fight again in like three weeks and do the same thing. He just kept doing it, living off of the name that he had created while he was in Pride. That's a very sad thing. For me that's almost the same as going on the street and back for money. It really is to me.

You know, I think that is, and he's such a good guy. If you meet him, also he's very, very nice. Great guy. Great guy. But yeah, I don't like that. It's the same with Kerr. You know, I saw that special or a thing that they did on him that he sells cars now. You know, it's hard to look at that.

Because especially he knew where he was in the past and that all is gone now you know it's it's you can be really high but you can fall really low yeah you know so you have fighters saying that they said it's so great to fight he says but when you're high you're high you know when you win but when the lows are there it's really low as well. The difference is too much. Well, actually, look what just came out with Ellen and Ronda. Yeah. I mean, she broke down just thinking about it. And I know it is a moment that they're there, so everybody would have that for a few seconds.

But, yeah, it will get you down a big loss like that. Well, I know that after the fight like that night she was just devastated but of course i mean that was a brutal brutal knockout and it was a fight where nothing worked i mean just nothing worked she went after holly and she tried to bully her and holly just great footwork countered her and that kickboxing and her movement holly's movement is the best in all of women's mma her footwork and movement she's so good at getting out of the way at countering when you're coming in and the the style the bulldog style of ronda's especially the way she fought that fight that night just played right into holly's hands

that's it she knew exactly where she was going to be all the time because she just went speed forward. And that head kick, oof. You know, that was one of the things I said after that fight. I'm like, this is, she should take a long time off after that fight because that's the kind of head kick, that's the kind of KO that it takes a long time to recover from. You might look fine. Yeah.

You know, you might be able to talk. But mentally and also the brain itself, that kind of an impact, like a high kick like that, can really take a long time for everything to heal, for everything to normalize. Well, Kenny Rice said, he says, because I took my words back

because we were talking about Floyd Mayweather versus Ronda. I said, well, if it goes to the ground, you know, yeah, I truly believe. But Kenny said footwork will make sure it's not going to go to the ground. I go, no, no, no. Five rounds, five minutes, 25 minutes, a long time. You know, there will be a clinch one time. But that's exactly what happened.

Yeah. There's a difference, first of all, in fighting in an octagon, which is a huge surface. Like, if you look at a boxing ring, most people. Oh, you can lock them up. It's a much, much smaller space. And also, I just don't think Ronda would try to box a Floyd Mayweather. I think she thought that she could stand with Holly Holm. Yep. And I think a lot of it's based on Holly's previous performances in the UFC,

especially the Raquel Pennington fight. Raquel Pennington, who's very tough, very durable. And Raquel, I always give her, I gave her the nickname the ear exploder because she's had so many moments in the fight where you're like, oh! Yeah, yeah, yeah. You scream so loud that you blow people's eardrums out. Like when she fought Ashley Evans-Smith and Bulldog choked her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blood everywhere.

And she choked her like one second ago. We were screaming at the end of that fight like, she's out! She's out! And then she's not. Yeah. But Pennington's so tough and fought conservatively against Holly Holm and almost won.

Like, that was a split decision. So you look at that fight and you go, oh boy, man, maybe Ronda could stand with her and just go after her the way she went after Betch Koheya, the way she went after Alexis Davis. But, man, Holly was just on point. I think it's game planning also. You know, after that fight with Raquel, that was perfect

for her, because that means, okay, stay away from the big bums. You know, they know that Ronda, she's an athlete. She can hit. She hits you. When I saw that, what is the open workout in Brazil, and I'm one of these guys, I have always things to say. Oh, this is not good. You should do this. You can prove this. You. And I'm one of these guys, I have always things to say. Oh, this is not good.

You should do this. You can prove this. I'm very critical. And I always think to myself, am I too much? What am I doing? But at the moment, I saw her training there. And this is not fighting. And I know this doesn't translate to fighting. But hitting the focus mitt and hitting the back or all that stuff, it looked nearly perfect

to me. The rotation of her upper body, the movement afterwards, very Tyson-like also. I really thought, man, yeah, okay, I have nothing to say now. This looks really good. I felt the same way. Yeah, I felt like her hand techniques were on point. And then when she polished off Betch Kohea in the first round, it sort of spoke to that. Like, okay, well, look, obviously she hits hard, her technique is improving, and she's an elite athlete.

Yep. You're talking about an Olympian, you're talking about a person that has that mindset to push forward and figures out a way to get better at everything she does. But so does Holly. Yep. So does Holly. Yep. And Holly has got way better kickboxing skills and way better, she's got way more diversity

in her striking game. Whereas Ronda's just punching. Knees to the body when she gets close to the clinch, knees to the body, but on the outside it's just punching. Whereas Holly, Holly can head kick you and knock you the fuck out. And she sets those kicks up with kicks to the body, she'll throw kicks to the leg. That Jackson camp, they all like that oblique kick to the thigh. Yep, to the thigh, yeah.

Which is a dangerous kick. Yeah, it's going to be outlawed. When somebody's going to snap their knee, it's going to be over. Do you think so? Because knee bars aren't outlawed. Heel hooks aren't outlawed. I know, but that's a different thing. Once your leg is a little stretched and you get hit there, that's it.

A knee bar, or you have to be in a polyaris, but anybody else would just put the knee bar on and give you time to tap. You won't have that with an oblique kick. Yeah, I agree. I mean, but it's so effective right now when it's legal. I understand why they're using it because Jon Jones is so good at it. You know, Winkle Jon is one of the best triking coaches

in the world. He really is. He's so good and so underappreciated because he's such a humble guy. He's not talking a lot. He really is. He's so good and so underappreciated because he's such a humble guy. He's not talking a lot. He's not bragging. He's a very down-to-earth, normal, humble guy. But the results

that that guy's been able to... I mean, Holly's probably one of his best students, but of course, John Jones as well. John Jones. Not a freak.

He can change the world. He could be... If he's now on the straight and narrow and he's just fighting, I see this guy, nobody's going to beat this guy. It's going to be hard, that's for sure. But, you know, the worry about John is that John's going to fuck himself up. Because, like, recently he just got caught driving with no license and no insurance and no registration.

And, you know, he lost his license. He's got millions of dollars. Get a fucking driver, man. Get a driver. Yeah, but look at Tiger Woods, what happened to him. Because when all the crap happened with him, mentally he didn't come back from that. And I understand this is golf, you know, but the same as fighting. It's a mind game.

It's really a mind game. So can he overstep that? I think he can because Jones is young. And he knows how good he is. But if I were him, I would say fight four or five more years. Stop. You're going down in history. Like a thousand years from now, they will still talk about you if you do it correctly.

Yeah. Or, you know, he sidetracks and something bad is going to happen to him. Let's not hope. Yeah, I hope he pulls it together. He's a great guy. I really like John as a person. I mean, he has his flaws like most people. And he's young and the amount of pressure that he's on to be the youngest ever UFC champion,

to have this spectacular career so early in life. The only loss he had was a disqualification that was a bullshit disqualification. Yeah, Hamill. I mean, this stupid rule of 12 to 6 elbows, they got to get rid of that rule. It's so dumb. If you don't know what I'm talking about, folks, in the UFC, there's a rule, and it's a crazy rule, that you can't strike someone with an elbow from 12, 12 p.m. to 6 on a clock dial, like going straight down. And the only reason why you can't do it is because when they were setting up the athletic commissions,

the athletic commissions had seen those karate demonstrations on TV where a guy would break a brick with his elbow. And they said, well, you can't do that. That's got to be illegal because someone could die. And this is what Big John McCarthy told me, that he had to talk to these people. And he's like, okay, all right, then that one's illegal. So that's the only reason why that's still illegal. But the great thing is, if you're on your back, you're allowed to do it. Because that is North West and West to East.

Yes. It's so stupid. It's the dumbest thing ever it's so stupid it's one of the dumbest rules that's still in place yeah oh well that's uh we had a guy in holland um uh hippolyte hippolyte and wheat uh orlando wheat these two guys when they fought each other they would sell out all the time i saw three fights of them they're live because these guys were crazy full tie rules and orlando wheat and hippoly three fights of them live because these guys were crazy. Full Thai rules and Orlando Weed and both of them

they would in the clinch jump all the way up and then come down with the elbows to the collarbones to the head. They would go full blast. Orlando Weed who fought in the UFC early. I think UFC 2 was it 2 he fought in? Yeah. Remco Pardul. Remco got him in a scarf hole and pounded him

out with elbows. With illegal elbows now. It is illegal now. That's so true, right? Well, it might have been legal because it was kind of coming from 12 around the side. Maybe it was like 12 to 7 or something like that. Yeah, 11.

11 to 5 or 1 to 7. It's up to you what you want to call this. It's so dumb. It's so dumb. It's so dumb. I have a problem with a few rules of the UFC, but that's the number one. I have also a problem with putting the hand on the ground to stop knees to the head.

I always go, if you have somebody, lift him up and then knee him in the head. I feel like to a downed opponent, maybe that's a problem when they're up against the cage because you can't get your head out of the way. In Pride, one of the crazy things about Pride, which I think to this day, and one of the reasons why I was so excited to have Mauro here too, you guys called the glory days. Oh, man.

I mean, some of the wildest fights in the history of the sport where you have stomps, soccer kicks, everything, but no elbows. No elbows. No elbows to the ground. Yeah. kicks, everything, but no elbows. No elbows to the ground. I remember fights that they literally have Van der Leestilver in the corner or Ninja

or Shogun, you know, and they would hold the ropes and then just stomp somebody. Sculling, pretty much. It's scary. I think that shouldn't be legal. It's like what happened in the past with Roger Huerta, you know, at 1FC.

It's now one championship. When you look at that fight, you go, that was the referee really messed up on that one. He literally dropped on all fours because he was exhausted, and then he got penalty kicked in the face. That could have been really bad. Well, I think it was really bad.

I mean, I don't know how much he recovered from that. I mean, that was a devastating knockout and it was also roger fighting at 170 which is not really his weight class it really should be a 155 and he fought a big who's the brazilian guy that he fought i don't remember his name um but that guy's a big guy and he he had roger hurt and then that soccer they have like a rule at one fc i don't know if they still have it, where they'll say like open, like where you're allowed to do a stomp or a kick to the downed opponent. Well, this was a closed. They should have said.

There's the guy's name, Zorro Babbo Morea. Zorro Babbo. It was a devastating, devastating soccer hit. He said, I did not want to throw the kick. Wow. Well, then don't. Why would you do it? Do it to the body, which will be very dangerous at that moment as well.

Because you're breathing, you're going to crack some ribs. So it could be very dangerous as well. But you could recover from the cracked ribs a lot better than you could recover from that. Step away. There's no need for that. I never had that. It means being aware in the cage and know what you're doing.

If I see a guy's out, the guy's out. I'm not going to hit him extra. Good for you, man. There's a lot of debate about the old rules of pride versus the rules of the UFC, and that was one of the things that happened when Cro Cop started fighting in the UFC and then fought in a

cage for the first time against Gonzaga. Well, you know, he fought Eddie Sanchez first, won that fight, but it's not on his level. It was not on his level. And then he fought Gonzaga, and Gonzaga took him down, held him up against the cage, elbowed the shit out of him, and then stood him up and high kicked him. But he was saying, like, the elbows confused him,

like he wasn't used to that, and he also wasn't used to the cage being trapped whereas the pride ring you could move around yep like the ropes were there you can get under the ropes you could you know you never were pinned you can also but you can lock somebody up also in a corner which you cannot do in a cage yes it's a when i stepped for the first time in the cage um i was like oh dude this is this is awesome they can never look me up this is the biggest thing I've ever seen yeah

so yeah I think Gonzaga that fight and I always come back to this I thought it was so smart

what he was doing he was constantly throwing a right hand and it didn't even come close to his face like this and I'm constantly thinking

why is he doing that and then it really you know I got oh he's shutting his kick down. Because Krokop, he might think, if I just throw a right straight like every 20 seconds in front of your face, he's going to think if I throw my left at the moment he throws that right straight, he's going to knock me out. So he shut his whole game down, and then he was moving to the left.

And that was the blueprint to Krokopop because after that, everybody started doing it. Yeah, and it's interesting how Krokop got his revenge in the rematch in a big way with elbows on the ground. It was kind of ironic. One of the things that Krokop was saying before that fight is that he didn't particularly like grappling and he didn't particularly like elbows on the ground. Meanwhile, that's what won him the fight.

The second fight he won by being on top and by the elbows that a real talented striker can throw from the guard. The difference in those elbows is just unbelievably devastating. We saw that in the Crow Cop fight. Yeah. No, he did a really good job of that. I had a one time also somebody armbarred me and I got out. And when I fought him the second time, I didn't want to knock him out. I wanted to armbar him first.

And I remembered that. Armbar him, but it was with the rope escapes there. I had him, and then he rope escapes, and I told him, I said— Oh, so this is Pancrase. This is Pancrase. I said, now you got it back. And then later on, I heel hooked him, actually. Well, Pancrase had crazy rules.

And you were the first guy to figure those rules out. And I loved watching you fight back then because it was open hand striking with the hands but kicks. So, like, you were the first guy that ever saw a fight in that. First of all, that kick's so fucking hard. You could see when you would slam these guys with these kicks, they'd be like, oh, this is a completely different experience. But also, you weren't slapping. How the fuck do you pull your hand back so far? Yeah, I got very limber hands

here with the bone. Yeah, you were pulling your hand way back and throwing straight punches and hooks and uppercuts like when you fought Funaki. You were throwing uppercut palm strikes like a punch with the same motion. Nobody does this still. Look, if I'm in the guard and I just lift my hand like this.

See? Yeah. Just slide over his chest in the face. Why is nobody doing this? Why is nobody doing this? Just leave it here. Just hit him a little bit. Look away.

Because most of the time when you look away, they think, and then, boink, just hit him in the face. Yeah, like flat hand on the center of the chest and just shove it up. Shove it over the chest. Yeah, that does make sense. That does make sense. But wouldn't that work with a punch as well? Yeah, but you have more space with a palm. Right.

Like on this distance, this is much shorter than this. This is like an extra 15%, which will make a lot of difference on that distance. That's a very good point. Like it's another five or six inches at least. extra 15% which will make a lot of difference on that distance. That's a very good point. Like it's another five or six inches at least. Listen, that's why I never understood nobody's throwing palm strikes now. Left hook, right straight combination, right? In boxing.

Right. It's a dumb combination if you really think about it. If it's a short left hook, I'm way too close for my straight punch. It has no power. I can't stretch my arm. But if I do a palm strike and then a straight punch, now I got space for my straight punch. It's much harder. So why is nobody doing that? Now I do clotheslines. I posted a thing on Facebook like a year ago. When I hit a bag with a clothesline, dude, I don't think people can imitate me, my weight with a kick like that. They can kick and then I say, okay, now I show

a clothesline. They see the back folding around my whole arm. It's the craziest thing. You can block and try to block whatever you want. If I clothesline you, if you stand still, it goes straight through everything. I guarantee you, it'll knock you out. Why is that? Why is a clothesline so powerful? It is so powerful because you can really lock it up. Don't stretch your arm

because if you miss time and you hit you're going to hyperextend. But you can drag your whole body weight in there because you lock it up. And your legs are planted on the ground. Oh, yeah. So you're getting all that hip torque in there. It is such a powerful strike. And also with the clinch, even when they stand like this, if I do this, it loops around the defense.

And it hits the back of the head, still the legal part. Right. Because it's outside the mohawk. Well, even the back of the head standing never seems to get, like in boxing, they get penalized for punching the back of the head. People say no rabbit punches, but when you think about a head kick, a lot of head kicks, especially the ones that go over the shoulder, they're the back of the head, and it's legal.

And that's why they're effective, and that's why it was so effective with me, with Pankrus, I hit behind the ear. If you look at Mike Tyson's fights, you know, I don't know how he did it, but he did it. He was always the shorter guy. But if you see him hooking somebody, he hits almost the back of the head. He's got very short hooks. Now, the body, it's ready for impact from the front and from the side because you're used to it. Well, if you can see the punch coming.

The behind, I always tell people, just do it with the palm. Just do this to the back of your head and see what happens. Like just me doing this is already going, you're not ready for that. So you can only imagine if you go, hit as hard as you can behind the ear. It's a sweet punch.

I can't understand nobody's doing it. It drives me nuts. Is the back of the head that much more dangerous? Oh, do this, do this. But I mean, the head that much more dangerous? Oh, do this. Do this. But I mean, is it that much more dangerous? Should it be outlawed? No, on the side. Just behind the ear. Just do that. Oh, yeah. Right? You got... Yeah.

Remember when Henzo fought in world combat against that judo guy? I forget his name. Oh, the Dutch guy. Yeah. Yeah. He got his back. Spikers. Spikers. Ben Spik the Dutch guy. Yeah. Yeah. He got his back, and Spikers. Spikers, Ben Spikers. Ben Spikers. I train with him also.

He got his back, and just, if you can elbow the back of the head, rear naked chokes are out the window. Yeah, yeah. Because everybody's just going to bang, bang, bang to the back of the head, and it's almost more effective than a rear naked choke, because guys are just going to try to cover up. Yeah, and eventually, i mean it'll slip through that's it's it's interesting to me that there's some really effective martial arts techniques that are outlawed and that's one of them i mean you you can't hit that spot it's it's a it's kind of strange because in a self-defense situation or

an actual martial arts if you think about what is the most effective technique to use knees to the ground are very effective to head on a down opponent. Elbows to the back of the head are very effective. But are they that much more dangerous? I mean, should they be outlawed? Oh, here's the video. Yeah, Henzo got it. Oh, look at this.

Boom, boom. I mean, no need to choke. But he choked him anyway, I think. Yeah, and now he's going to step on his head, right? Yeah, he smashed him. He smashed that dude. Well, that guy, here's the deal. Henzo, who's a step on his head right? Yeah, he smashed him. He smashed that dude. Well that guy Here's the deal. Henzo who's a very nice guy by the way

This fucking guy was calling Henzo all throughout the night and fucking with him. Look at he stepped on his head as he walked off of him Yeah, he's out cold Henzo was in his hotel room and this guy kept calling him and fucking with him He just didn't want him to have any sleep. so he just kept ringing his phone, and Henzo was like, oh, okay. All right. Just wait, motherfucker. Yeah.

It's so funny when you see a guy like Henzo, and he's always smiling, you know? Don't do it. What's wrong with people? He's really nice. He smiles all the time. Yeah. Yeah, but he does the same thing when he kicks you in the balls, you know? I mean, watch out! Did you ever see

that Twitter sequence that Henzo put online where he beat the shit out of these muggers in New York City? Yeah. These guys in New York City tried to mug Henzo Gracie, not knowing who he was. So Henzo, not only beat the fuck out of them, he followed them and kept beating the fuck out of them and was making all these

pushes. Thank you, Mayor Bloomberg, for making so safe New York City so I don't have to worry about guns. This, to me, is a pleasure. No, he already starts with, there's two guys following me. They probably want to rob me or something. And then he makes it into a game. He's like, oh, yeah, this is really happening.

I'm so excited. What a huge fuck up on their part. Yeah. Well, he had one. We were, Kenny Rice and I, we were somewhere. This is not that long ago. And he was also, he was walking on the street and two guys, same thing. He came to tell the story and he dropped the biggest guy.

He said, I just picked the biggest guy. And while he kept walking, the police came. They stopped. Is there any trouble? And he looks at the guys. And the guys go, no, no, there's no any trouble. And he just kept walking. He said, you just picked the wrong guy.

That's what he told them. They fucked up. You did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he looks so friendly and nice. I mean, when he's got his game face on, he looks like a killer. But most of the time, Henzo's smiling.

He's like one of the smiliest, happiest guys you're ever going to run into. Yep. And look at him there. Big smile. Is that an IFL ring? It's an IFL ring, but this is the paperweight. Oh, it's a fake one. Yeah, it's a fake one.

It's a paperweight that they gave to us. Yeah. Henzo couldn't be a nicer guy. Couldn't be a nicer guy. And it's so nice to see how well he's done with his school, too. He has one of the biggest jiu-jitsu schools in the world. And in Manhattan, where it's so hard to be successful because it's so expensive, real estate. I think the IFL had a big part in that because they did that thing on 2020 for him.

Or 15 minutes, one of the two. And after that, it just exploded. Because once you get into the world of Enzo about what kind of person he is everybody likes him, even the guys like him, so the people at home they saw that guy and then they saw the technique and the talent, yeah, put hand

in hand together and boom, Anthony Bourdain trains there also, his wife trains there, everybody trains there Yeah, well he's done an amazing job of putting together a fantastic gym in New York City with Gary Tonin, Eddie Cummins. So he's got these guys that are – and John Donaher is a big part of that as well. He's got these guys that are training there that are so successful in these jiu-jitsu competitions. So it's not just the legacy of being one of the Gracies and being one of the most famous jiu-jitsu practitioners ever.

But it's also on top of that, it's the product, like the results that they've gotten in competition. Yeah, he's very smart. You know, he's got a really good staff as well, teaching there, which is a very important thing because most of the time, guys like who are really good, they want to control it too much, you know, and then it goes down. But he did a great job just getting the right guys for the job. Well, it's also, you see extreme loyalty from the people that train there because they love Henzo so much.

There's like a real bond with Henzo Gracie. Of course, Matt Serra, who came from that lineage, and then a lot of his guys as well. Just can't say enough good things about Henzo. Yeah, he's funny, Matt. He's hilarious. The one when I was the first time looking for a fight. Yeah, have you seen that show? The Dana White show?

You're a bone model, you know, and Dana sits there. And then he gets all uncomfortable about sitting a certain way. It's so funny. If you haven't seen it, there's a show called Looking for a Fight. And it's Dana White, Matt Serra, and Nick the Tooth. And what they do is they go to small MMA shows all over the world. And they see fights and find talent. And that's where they found that kid, Mickey Gall, stage Northcutt as well.

And then the guy who they were setting up to fight. Punk. Yeah, CM Punk, which is, I don't know what's going to happen with that guy. I don't understand this whole thing. He's got a lot of injuries. Well, I also think it's ridiculous for him to fight in the UFC. I think he should fight in a small organization. Take a fight in a small

organization, build yourself up. I have always said that that's what should have happened with Brock Lesnar. I mean, if you look at Brock Lesnar as an athlete, I always said if you took Brock Lesnar and got him to a guy like Matt Hume or Firas Zahabi and said, okay, make this guy a champ. You're dealing with a

freak athlete. Unreal. Just train him correctly, build him up slow, get him through the ring. But he wanted to fight right away in the UFC. One fight in K-1, right to the UFC, fought in that K-1 LA show, and then right to the UFC. Yeah, it's a shame. But it's his name.

And of course, they understand that once he fights for a pay-per-view, there's going to be a lot of people. He's going to have a cut on the pay-per-view. But that is short. It's always short, like the money. Later in your career, you regret all these things. I'm happy I never did that. Yeah, I feel like—

And I made big mistakes. Well, I feel like he definitely had massive potential. I mean, he beat Randy Couture. Yeah. I mean, that's just unbelievable. I mean, he beat Randy Couture. Yeah. I mean, that's just unbelievable. I mean, he beat the shit out of Frank Mir. I mean, he beat Shane Carwin in a fight. We really had to show his resilience.

Got the fuck beat out of him in the first round. Came back, submitted him in the second round. So he had some legit wins against legit guys, but just wasn't ready for guys like Kane or especially Alistair. That was a bad fight. Yeah, that was a bad fight. Well, if he could have taken it to the ground, it would have been different. Against Couture, that was the first time that I thought, oh, hopefully now more people start doing it.

That was that crazy punch. And with him it was because he was not super technical yet in striking, but he hit an overhand and it hit with this part of the hand with the fist, the back of the head, and Couture went down. Then with Junior Dos Santos knocked out Cain Velasquez like that. I go, okay, we got it. People finally now, they start getting it. And then Velasquez did the same thing to Junior coming back. So I figured, oh, they looked at it.

So now we're going to see this more often. But that was pretty much it. You see it here and there one time. but it's not a real overhand. Or they throw a real overhand, not with the side that hits the back of the head again, what we just talked about. Yeah, almost like a ridge hand strike. It's almost like a ridge hand, yep. Well, you remember when Chuck Liddell used to throw that crazy,

you got a Chuck Liddell sweatshirt on now. There's new Roots of Fight ones, right? I got a Boss Newton t-shirt at home. Oh, you got it. I just got one. But Chuck Liddell used to throw it over the top of his head. fight ones, right? I got a Boss Newton t-shirt at home. I just got one. But Chuck Liddell used to throw it over the top of his head. He would

throw this crazy one, and that's how he hit Alistair when they fought in Pride. He threw it not circular at all, but like a 12-6 punch. You know, it's a complete different punch. That's what I tell people. I said, I always really liked the technique from Chuck.

He's also wide open, which gives him almost power equal left and right. Just like Tyson. I like to fight like that as well. And he can hit really, really hard. And he's not afraid about opening up. Sometimes, though, with him, you know, if he gets too excited, instead of stepping back, he goes in for the kill and that got him in trouble later in his career because if he would simply step back and come back

but that's why every person every guy every everybody likes Chuck Liddell yeah you don't look at Chuck Liddell you say oh he lost a couple of times by knockout nobody will say that he did not lose one fan because he's always there to fight that's why i really like chuck yeah he had one of the most exciting attitudes ever in fighting he was always do or die and early in his career he had an incredible chin i mean his chin was just iron you ever see the pele fight when they fought in valley tudor in brazil no no i heard about it though it was crazy too crazy fight and then that was a fight where they had a net under the bottom rope. They fought in a ring, but it was modified for Valle Tuto, where the bottom rope from the bottom to the floor of the ring was a net.

So he couldn't get out. He couldn't slide out. Yeah, and they're trapped, bare knuckle, and Chuck's got them trapped in there and just beating the fuck out of them, like smooshed up there. And this was back when Chuck was known for his striking, but he was a very good wrestler. Yeah.

Before that. Yeah, that's why he stopped every day then. You know, that was one of the things that, what the fuck was his name? The guy who was the matchmaker for the UFC. Peretti. John Peretti. John Peretti told Chuck right before he fought his first fight in the UFC, he said, if you take this guy down, you'll never fight for us again. Oh, wow. That's like, he said it to Chuck right before he fought his first fight in the UFC. He said, if you take this guy down, you'll never fight for us again.

Oh, wow. He said it to Chuck right before he fought. They didn't want him to try to wrestle fuck his way. So Chuck was like, oh, Jesus. All right. Knock him out. So that's the debut of Chuck Liddell. Who knew?

Hey, I got great hand power. He could hit. Hackleman, his trainer, is also a legend and a great guy and a real wild man, too. They were a perfect combination, Hackleman and Chuck. With Chuck's early days, you watch some of those fights, like the Babalu fight. He was just a fucking destroyer. That's the kick, right? Yeah.

That was the second time they fought, right? Wasn't it? I don't remember. If we have Mauro here, he'll tell the dates, everything. When Mauro gets better, we'll definitely have him back here. I would love to talk to him. I love Mauro. He's such a great guy.

He really is. We have some crazy stories in Japan also because everything with us is fun. We would come home, or we would come home, breakfast in Japan. You wake up early because of the jet lag we're there at 5 30 when the breakfast place opens we sit down and our table we start with two it would be at the end 25 guys are there everybody jumps at the end because it's comedy

central all morning long all the fighters you know everybody's laughing everybody's having a good time well you guys did a lot of comedy sketches too. There was like a lot of fun with Pride in those early days. In the early days, yeah. This was just that was with Cuadros, Stephen Cuadros. They allowed us to do this and it all happened because I forgot my suit. I didn't know that

as a commentator, you needed to wear a suit. So they thought I was messing with them. And I go, no, I really didn't bring a suit. Nobody told me to bring a suit. So I was in my shorts, flip flops, and I had this Hawaiian shirt on. And that was the first one that I'm leaning back. And there's a bunch of these geishas, they're fanning me down and feeding me grapes. And I'm doing, I'm talking to Steven, who is in the event, you know, we're going back and forth. And they say, man, we really like that. Maybe we should keep doing this.

And then we start coming up with this crazy opening. Well, a lot of what you were doing, it was, I don't even know if I was working for the UFC back then, but guys from jujitsu, we would all get together. We'd either go over to my friend John's house or we'd go over to my house and we'd get together with a bunch of guys and we would watch Pride. Yep. And oh, those were the days. Those were the days.

Those were the days because it was the early days of MMA. And we had had in the 90s, you'd have the UFC, which was kind of struggling at the time because they were kicked off a cable. And the only way you could get it was on direct TV. This was pre-Zufa. It was before Zufa bought it. But Marowich. But that's like right around the time where Pride started to take off with the first Hickson fight.

Hickson, a lot of people don't know. Hickson started off Pride. Yep. Hickson was in Pride 1. Yeah, Takata. Yeah. That was the first fight. Yeah.

And then Sakuraba put him on the map by beating the Gracies. Yeah, yeah. That's when it became big. That's why I always say, you know, for Risen, for the new organ is Risen they need they need a Sakuraba like guy they need a Japanese guy they can do a few shows

like this with a Fedor I mean Enkel and now Vandale Silva coming back they can do a few shows but eventually people want to root

for their own you know they need a Japanese guy like Satake you remember in K1 he was getting very I think he won the first one

but that was before all the foreigners came he won the you know Branco that was before all the foreigners came in. Once the, you know, Branko Sikertiju and all the, that was an animal.

That guy also. Branko knocked out Hoost. Remember that? Oh, man. That guy could fucking punch. We saw, I saw him fight in the Jaap Ede Hall

in Holland. That was the most famous place. Every fight was there. Always. That was one night we had four guys from Thailand were there, and they were fighting all guys from the Jira gym,

like Rob Kamen, Miloel Goebeli. I mean, all the great guys, all the great strikers from Meng Ho. And it were all title fights, and they were broadcast live to Thailand. Wow. They all got knocked out. Wow. Yeah, that never happened again after that.

Wow. They destroyed them. It was awesome. What a night. That was the Holland days of the top Holland guys. When right around the time where Ramon Decker started dominating and Rob Kamen started dominating, so much talent came out of Holland. I mean, Holland is a small country.

If you look at the size of Holland, you look at the amount of high-level kickboxers that have come out of there, it's pretty incredible. You know, the K1, for instance, they, at the end, from the final eight, they fight all year, they make a final tournament for the people who don't understand it,

they fight ten times a year, or there's ten shows a year, and then in December, there's the final eight like the UFC started. Eight fighters, the best from the whole year, compete against each other. Whoever wins gets like $450,000, whatever the prize money is. But they start realizing that the final eight were six were Dutch, seven were Dutch. So now if you're, for instance, a guy who was born in Morocco but lives in Holland, or even when you were born in Holland with Moroccan parents,

suddenly you come up with the Moroccan flag. Right. Because they say, we can't have the Dutch flag the whole time. Like Badr Hari. I love Badr Hari. Perfect example. Yeah. Roman Dekkers, the first time I saw him fight,

I was in the same card. I was fighting as well. So this is a long time ago. It was just C class. You know, in Holland you have new, C class, B class, A class. And I just started, so I probably was new. It was just C class. In Holland, you have new, C class, B class, A class. And I just started, so I probably was new. And he fought C class, I believe. And a friend of mine calls me.

He says, you're going to watch. I said, no, I got to fight. I got to warm up. He said, you want to watch this kid. Watch this kid. And I see him, and he's with a little mullet, and he is skinny. And he fights this guy who's much older. He's like 16, 17 years old.

An older guy with tattoos. So automatically, you go, oh, he's going to get killed. And my buddy goes, just wait until he starts. And the first kick, I still remember, he kicked the guy, a low kick, and the guy went horizontal and fell on the ground. I'm looking at my buddy. I go, this is the craziest power I've ever seen. It was so explosive explosive and he was so

skinny at the time, but his technique was perfect. His technique was perfect and he was so ferocious. I mean, he didn't care. Towards the end, his ankles were so fucked up that he wanted to fight southpaw because he didn't want to throw the right kick, but he would kick a few times

and he would go, fuck it. He would go right back to it with his bad leg. I mean, they were telling him, like, we're close to amputating your leg. You've broken your foot so many times. You've broken your shin. Your whole leg is just a series of... And he would wrap it up tight and just still. Once the fight started, he didn't give a fuck.

He would just throw it right into elbows. He'd kick everything. Arm out of socket. He would just place it back in the corner. And Cor Hammers, his trainer, he told me I never heard him complain. Like he would say, oh, you know, I hurt my

ankle or I hurt my hand. He said I never heard him say anything when he comes back like that. He just goes like, what are you doing? I'm putting my shoulder back in place. It's out of the socket. It was almost like it wasn't his body. Yeah. Like he was using a borrowed body.

Yeah. Yeah. Crazy guy, man. Super good. You know, that's Kevin, Kevin Rettelman. Look at the freaking nature. I mean, he could have done any sport. Yeah.

You know, guys like that. And that's where Ramon Deckers do. I'm happy they found fighting, though. Yeah. Well, Ramon Deckers really set the standard. He really set the standard. I really set the standard for ferocity, and he sort of embodied that Holland style, the Dutch style of Muay Thai. I mean, he was just a crusher. A crusher.

Yeah, he was like Rob Kame and all these guys. What they did, the reason they started winning fights in Thailand was because they had better hands. They tied the hands and the kicks together. And they didn't do that in Thailand yet. It was predominantly only kicking. Kicking and a lot of clinching. And then you had Rob Kamen, one of the greatest kickboxers ever.

And then you suddenly, that's the technical version. The more smooth one. Probably he had the slow twitch fibers, because don't get me wrong, he knocked you out with every punch. But then you had Roman Dekkers, who was the explosive guy. He had that technique, and he added the explosiveness to it.

It's like Dyson. Recklessness, too. Just crazy power. You know, when he fights Coban the first time, and he hits him with 26 punches. You gotta see the shots that Coban, he had 200 fights, never been knocked out in his life. He was the first

guy to do that. And then you see after the fight when he's down, the whole place is quiet. Nobody moves. And then Rob Cameron jumps in the ring with a Dutch flag and he starts parading around. Jamie, pull that fight up, man. Rob K... No, Rob Cameron. Ramon Deckers versus Coban.

Coban Laksamchoytang, right? Is that how you say it? Yeah, just do Coban. Just Coban. I always did it with these Polish names, you know. Okay, I called him by his first name. The Thai names are pretty crazy. The amount of adverbs

and adjectives they have in there. It's like, whatever. It's so strange. Yeah. The amount of consonants all just lumped in together. And all these crazy names. Yeah. Here it is.

Oh, this is a different guy. But just take a little look to see what kind of power he has. Look at that hook. The kick, bonk. Oh, yeah. Look at that left hook. Man. What Rob Kamen, the difference between Rob Kamen. The kick, bonk. Oh, yeah, look at that left hook. Man. What Rob Kamen, the difference between Rob Kamen...

Oh, here we go. Yeah, here it is. Rob Kamen was just more technical. He didn't take as many chances. He didn't get hit as much. He was very smart and very technical when he fought. And he's a great trainer, too. You know, Rob Kamen was really one of the guys

that was responsible for Brandon Vera early in his career. You know, when Brandon Vera was knocking everybody dead in the UFC early in his career, he was training with Rob Kamen. And when he stopped training with Rob Kamen is when things started not going so well for him. Yep. Oh, this is Coban. This is a slow motion for some reason. They show Coban now knocking people out, I think, so they know who Coban is.

They called him the Bufflehead. That was his nickname because he never went down well he had a giant head and then this is see if they can show so go a little further where I don't want to see there is slow motion maybe that's it's where you are though yeah but I want to look at slow-mo I want to see them out there we go now they're actually fighting this is gonna be so crazy the way he gives him the extra punch. What's in the bed? You'll see it. So Ramon, like most of the time, fought Southpaw? Is that what it was?

No, he fought. He fought Orthodox. Yep. He fought both. So most of the time when he fights different, it's because he has an injury, like you said. Oh, this is Lawrence Kenshin, who's an amazing analyst. He does a fantastic job of breaking down fights. His fight breakdowns are amazing.

But he does a lot of it in slow motion to show technique. So see if you can find just the actual fight instead of that video. Because you should definitely, if you're a fan of striking and you want to understand it a little bit better, watch Lawrence's stuff. What is his YouTube channel? Lawrence's YouTube channel, because you should give him some props. It's just his name, Lawrence Kensch. Watch Lawrence's stuff. What is his YouTube channel? Lawrence's YouTube channel, because I should give him some props. It's just his name, Lawrence Kenshin. He's amazing. Lawrence

is amazing. He does such a great job of breaking down fights. His videos are incredible, and he really deserves a lot of credit for that. I love watching his breakdowns, especially Tai. He loves a lot of Muay Thai breakdowns. So here's the actual fight itself. Man, these are like, in a lot of Muay Thai, a lot of Muay Thai breakdowns. So here's the actual fight itself.

Man, these are like in a lot of ways like unprecedented times because the Thais back in those days, we were used to karate and we were used to PKA kickboxing. Yeah, yeah, 10 kicks, WKA to the head first. People didn't know. And then when Westerners started going over to Thailand and competing against the Thais, we started seeing what high-level Muay Thai they had

and their kicking technique, and especially the low kicks, was just devastating. That was the first, the American champions here, when they came, when they lost, it was low kicks. Yeah, but remember when Rufus went and fought And it's kind of funny because Duke Rufus talks about he kind of laughs about it now that they were saying when when his brother Got fucked up. I forget who his brother fought, but he got lit up with leg kicks and stopped and Duke was like Well, there's not a lot of technique to that and you know, I don't think this doesn't take much talent

It takes a lot of fucking talent It takes a lot of talent They just didn't know you know what this is Ramon Decker's is prime. I know the look at Coban get the finishing point. She's gonna give watch one two three Oh my god the fuck don't the hands. How did tough was Coban? Look at him. He's he's out on his feet. He's walking forward How tough was Coban? Look at him.

He's out on his feet. He's walking forward. They're giving him a standing eight count. The last right hand. Watch that. This is going to be so badass. It's amazing how much Coban could take, though. Boom.

Move. This one. Oh. That's it. Incredible. Now watch. Look at the audience. Yeah. There's only Dutch guys.

Everybody is quiet. Yeah, man. And then you see Cayman coming in oh that's Cayman and he's gonna get the flag I remember man

how fucking tough was Coban to take those shots a lot of people lost a lot of money there I mean there's not a whole lot of people on the planet

that are his weight that would have taken those punches as many as he took clean to the face and you saw there we saw yeah he's got the flag and and ramon deckers was just teeing off full power i mean winging those shots in on him too man you know this core hammer such a scary guy yeah man glory days well he's up there now with Kevin. So they're having a blast. Yeah.

Sean Tompkins. He died young as well. He died of a heart attack while he was riding his bike. His bike, yeah. What was that? Did they know what happened? No, they first thought maybe he fell, but it was his heart. And he's also, because we've all been crazy, we all liked pushing limits, you know.

We were drinking with everything, but he was totally, like, a year nothing, we started cycling, and I knew, you know, once he starts something, and he loved cycling, I mean, this guy is going to go 50 miles an hour. I know he's going to, because that's who he is. He can't stop being the best at everything he does. So he wasn't just riding his bike. No, no.

He was probably going crazy with it. Yeah, that's his attitude. He's such a fucking animal. Such an animal. Yeah. He probably pushed himself riding his bike. No, no. He was probably going crazy with it. Yeah. That's his attitude. He's such a fucking animal. Such an animal. Yeah. He probably pushed himself to his heart broke. And also, when you see him, all the punishment he got in the tie with all the cuts on his forehead. Yeah.

He looks really badass. When you look at him, you go, oh, yeah, I want that. Well, I remember when he fought Dwayne Ludwig towards the end of his career. I mean, his face was flattened out. His massive scar tissue all over his eyes. His nose was flattened out. Yeah. I mean, he took a lot of points.

I don't think anybody's face changed more than Vanderlei's, though. Yeah. His face got flattened. I mean, you look at Vanderlei during the old Valley Tudor days and then Vanderlei towards the end in Pride. I mean, it look at Vandelay during the old Valley Tudor days and then Vandelay towards the end in Pride. I mean, it changed his face. Didn't they do surgery with the cheekbones like Nick Diaz did, you know, to make him flatter or something? Once he was in the UFC. They not only did that, they took cartilage out of his rib and reconstructed his nose.

And Vandelay had his nose made big so that he could get more air in. I mean, it looked crazy because his nose looks very different than it used to look. Like, I remember the first time I saw him was on the way, he was, like, for the weigh-ins. He wasn't fighting. He was with someone else.

And he came up the stage and I didn't know who the fuck it was. Yeah, you didn't recognize. I didn't know who it was. Oh, that is scary. And someone said, that's Vandele. And I went, what? What?

Because he had just gotten the surgery. So his face was pulled tight. His eyebrows were pulled tight. And his nose was big. It was like he had his nose made much larger with a big piece of cartilage so that he could take punches. Oh, yeah. You see? That's the same with the stupid ears, you know?

With those cauliflower ears. I sucked them out three times a day. You got to stab through it and you need a big syringe and a large needle because I do not want to have those ears and they go

oh no they're considered trophies I go okay good for you not for me I always wore ear guards I have a little tiny pieces of it here and there

but I always wore ear guards it's just it's just not smart it affects your hearing like it looks cool but it affects the way the reason the ear is designed that way

so the sound echoes off the outside of the ear and you can hear better like if you take your ear like folks who don't have cauliflower ear take your ear go over the top of your ear

and bend it down that's what those guys are hearing like all the time like Randy Randy can't even use iPhone ear pods those ear plugs those little things you can't put them in ear pods. Those ear plugs and things.

I had a guy also, yeah. They walk around with a Bluetooth, and I said, how can you listen to that thing? I mean, it's a thing. It's not even an ear. Well, Randy told me, too, what it is is calcification. So when your ear breaks and bleeds, if you don't drain it, it actually turns to calcium. Yeah, what turns hard, huh? So it's like a bone.

So what Randy would do is get on top of guys and grind his ear into their eyeball. He would get his ear, like when he's taking guys down, he would shove his ear, right? It's like he had a rock on his head. There's something very wrong with this guy. There it is, yeah. Look at that, yeah. And just so that people know at home, a really tiny surgery can fix this right away. I mean, they can fix this in 10 minutes.

Yeah. One of Eddie Bravo's black belts, Brent, he had it done. He had his ear cut, and then they pulled it back, and they pulled the stuff out. But it can get very dangerous, too. You can get some infections in there. You remember Dave Terrell? Yeah, I remember. Dave Terrell had his ear fucking removed, he had such, he had his ear removed.

They had to cauterize the inside of his ear because his infections were so bad that it was like it was fucking with his equilibrium. His balance was off. Like the whole inside of his ear was just pus and infections. The Kimbo against Thompson, James Thompson fight when he, they called it like a satellite was hanging and he hits it and you see the blood. He went in there with it. I mean, not only did he not drain it, it was like a recent blood.

It was like he had a mouse living in his ear. Yeah, it was big. Oh, that was nasty. And then he hits it. That was nasty. Yeah, splatter. Well, probably no one's worse than Jessica Ai versus Laura Smith? Was it Laura Smith? What was her name?

Leslie. Leslie Smith. Thank you. And Jessica Ai hits her in the ear and you see the blood shoot straight up in the air from her ear. It was insane. It would be crazy if she hits, she sees the blood flying and then go try to catch it.

That means your opponent is crazy. You can see it right there. Look at that. It's insane. And half of her ear was hanging off her head. And by the way, how tough is Leslie Smith? Because Leslie Smith was mad that they stopped the fight. She had a fucking hole that you could see her brain.

Oh, I've always been a big fan of Leslie Smith. That's her nickname, right? The gunslinger or something? What is her nickname? Something like Western. I don't know. Yeah. I don't's her nickname, right? The gunslinger or something? What is her nickname? Something like Western. I don't know. It fits her because she's that tough. And Jessica

just started targeting that one spot over and over again. Oh, it was disgusting. That was a nasty ear, man. That was a bad one. Yeah, I never got that, people. You see, I will be too nice at that moment. I won't hit that ear anymore. Because people go like, hit the ear again. I go, what? be too nice at that moment. I won't hit that ear anymore. Because people go like, hit the ear again. They go, what? The Peacemaker?

See? Well, that's Clint Eastwood. I thought about Clint Eastwood. The Peacemaker. I got a sick shot here. Well, women's MMA is really heating up right now, right? With Joanna Jundzic. Oh, I love her. Ernesto Hoost again.

She's fun, man. That chick is wild. She breaks her hands a lot, too. Unfortunately. She's broke her hands in two UFC fights so far. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the first round, right? The last fight.

That's why she couldn't finish, she said. Yeah. Total animal. Yeah, she's tough as shit. I love also the way she gets in their head, you know, at the weigh-in, the looking, that story behind it. She gets low and looks out from below. She's dangerous.

She's dangerous. But Klaja Gadeja is a fucking beast, too. Yep. That's a great fight. And they're going to coach alongside each other. They're going to coach on the Ultimate Fighter, and then they're going to fight. Yep. And they're going to fight the day before the big July UFC 200 card.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So they're going to have the finals on Friday, where the Ultimate Fighter finals, and then they're going to fight for the title. Ioana Jacek and Claudia Gadea, and then they're going to have the big 200 card, which they don't even know exactly who's going to fight in the 200 card. And, I mean, that's July. So a lot depends on Conor McGregor versus Dos Anjos.

Now, this, just for Joanna, I would want to see the ultimate fighter now. You know, because that's going to be interesting because her personality, I think, is going to make it. And Cadela also. She's an animal. Well, they fought, and it was a split decision. Very close fight.

And the way that Cadela looks, right? Her body. Yes. Also, like a machine. Very good Muay Thai, too, but really good ground game. So the question is, was she going to be able to get it to the ground? Because Joanna hurt her in the first round, knocked her down, and won that round. But a lot of people thought that Claudia might have won the second and third.

So it was a very close fight. Very close fight. Very controversial and very tightly disputed fight. So I think the rematch is going to be very exciting. I'm looking forward to that. Who does Jay Dracic work with for wrestling? That's a good question. That's a good question.

I don't know who her wrestling coach is. But I think she does a lot of her work in Poland, you know, because she lives in Poland. So, I mean, there's so many good European wrestling coaches. You know, Europe and wrestling, there's so many good European wrestling coaches, you know, Europe and wrestling. There's a lot of great, like, especially they bring in a lot of Eastern Bloc wrestlers, a lot of the Russian wrestlers. Like, that's how George St. Pierre got so good. The Russian nationals who are training up in Montreal. You gotta tell them. I go training too.

So technical too. You know, those guys, the Russian style of wrestling is so technical, so drill-oriented, you know. There's so many really high-level. I mean, look at what's happening now in the UFC with all these Sambo guys, these high-level grapplers. Like, well, first of all, you've got Habib Nurmagomedov, who's one of the best in the lightweight division. But he's another one that has a hard time staying healthy. But you think it's the training or you think it's just the person? Who knows? It could be both.

He's such a fucking animal. You see the way he fights. You've got to think he trains that way. The way he fights is just so grinding. He's so fucking attacking and relentless like a badger. So who knows? I was guilty of that as well. I trained really hard. He's so fucking attacking and relentless like a badger, you know? So who knows? Yeah. I was guilty of that as well.

I trained really hard. But when I hear stories, I hear fighters saying, oh, we go like on Fridays we spar like 70%. And I go, and? And they say, no, that's it. I say, that's it for sparring. Yeah. I go, wow. And they always ask, so how many times do you do it? I say, every workout, because that's what we're going to do.

You know, and we're going to try to, I'll try to hurt your legs. Well, if you have to fight, I won't. And your body, I will go with kickstands. I expect them also to go hard with me. And the head, you know, yeah, of course, we watch out for the head. We don't knock each other out too much. Too much. Too much. Too much.

Because it happens as well, right? It's inevitable. But that's why I didn't fight for seven years when I did that 2006 fight. I felt great. They say, no ring rust? I say, no, because we're doing it two times a day. We're trying. We're training hard.

And if you're used to it, it's the same as a fight. I mean, if they go hard, that's a fight. Yeah. Well, it's very similar if you're used to it, it's the same as a fight. I mean, if they go hard, that's a fight. Yeah, well, it's very similar if you train like that. Some people feel like, I mean, that's one of the ideas behind hard training is that when you train hard, you fight hard, and it becomes normal to you. But then other people think, well, you really should just train technical like a lot of the Thais do. They train more technical and more light with their sparring. And the hard work is all pad work and bag work. So there's people that think that's the way to save yourself.

Wonder Boy says that. He says he spars very light because he wants to preserve his chin, wants to preserve his head. It's like he saves the hard work for the bag and for fights. I used to train a lot with my buddy Amir, Amir Peretz, the Navy SEAL guy from Israel. And he's the one guy who could hang with me, I mean stamina-wise, because I will not get mad. But we will go hard.

People who see us, they think it's out of control, but it's not at all. So it's also about who you train with. If one day your steady sparring partner is sick and somebody else pops up and you don't know that guy and that guy tries to make a name for himself, that's when you get the injuries. But I truly believe in going hard. How many times do you see, it really angers me if I see guys in a clinch

kneeing other people and they knee them like they knee in training. They just lift their legs. Nobody gives a real knee. Look at Joanna when she makes a knee. Now, that's a different story. Or Alistair. Explode in there.

Yeah. Alistair's knee is devastating. They go, hee, hee. He's stupid. Or the knees to the thighs. It's not going to do anything if you do it like that. Right. If you do one hard one, it's worse than a low kick.

Yeah. Because they don't expect it. The muscle is relaxed. It goes straight through. But nobody does it. Yeah, there's a few. I mean, we're talking about 1% of the fighters. But isn't it, though, like all techniques,

like some guys just aren't that good at certain techniques. They just don't have the kind of pop. Like, you'll see guys throw kicks, and there's just nothing to them, and it's not that they're not trying. They don't have the looseness of the hips. They don't have that sort of snap into the kick. No.

Most of the time, it's just technique. If you train your legs, and you put, like, 10-pound ankle weights, have that sort of snap into the kick? No. Most of the time, it's just technique. If you train your legs and you put like 10-pound ankle weights and you just start throwing knees from zero, don't make it a bouncing, like sit-ups. I can do a thousand sit-ups as long as I use momentum to get back up. That's the problem with a lot of guys do. They do the knees. It's all momentum. Stand still, explode. Stand still, explode. That's the problem with a lot of guys do they do the knees it's all momentum stand still

Explode stand still Explode and the trick also with knees is to move your hips away from your partner same as with the straight punch the longer The knee is on its way the more power It's gonna have right and these guys they don't they actually they teach throw your hips in with a knee to the body is the Dumbest thing to do it's like me giving you a straight punch and closing the distance I'm jamming myself. You don't want to do that. Free it up. Let the hip flexor do the work. And at the moment you connect, yeah, that's when you want to push your weight

in. You see? But a lot of guys don't do it like that. They just knee like they do in training, in sparring. Do you get frustrated at when, I mean, obviously there's some very high level training going on in MMA. Some very high level training. But there's also some training where you see these guys, they're just not really prepared correctly.

Well, kicking in the balls. The inside low kick. 90% of when it happens, it's just because the guy doesn't know how to kick. Because he's kicking up. He's kicking up. His right foot, if he kicks with the left, his right foot, his toes, I guarantee you, pointing straight to the opponent. What they need to do is open that foot.

Let the toes point to the side. And then the angle is much easier to kick. You will never have that problem. These are just guys who don't know how to kick, and that's why they kick you in the pills. Well, it's interesting because that kick to the balls is so much more common in MMA than it is in Muay Thai or in Glory. Because they know.

Exactly. They're throwing the kick kick. We were talking about Glory getting, before this podcast started, we were talking about Glory getting picked up by Fight Pass and how exciting that is. Glory right now is so good. There's so much high-level kickboxing talent in the world, and now that Glory picked up, it's showtime, and K-1's not really around anymore. I mean, Glory's the game.

It's the game. That's it. Got the best guys on the planet. Damn. You know, Gokhan Saki even, yeah, he got injured now. What happened to him? I don't know. I don't know. I just found out. Mauro told me because he was

going to maybe do that show. I think maybe now it's Ron Kruk falling in for him. But Saki, that's a guy who was like Tyson and that's what I teach a lot. Double rights, double left punches. You know, everybody has a pattern. The fight that really upset me is Pacquiao against Mayweather. Mayweather is hanging against the ropes, Pacquiao is just unloading,

but everything is left, right, left, right, left, right, left, right. Now, if you take a Mike Tyson, suddenly throws in a left uppercut liver shot or a spleen right uppercut, double right, double left, you mix that into a pattern. Because if you throw a boxer in the corner and you start unloading on him with right, left, right, left, right, left punch, that's a pattern. They just punch, yeah.

But if you go left, right, left, left, left, and you change the second punch as well, like a three shot with a left hook, and then you go to the body while keep looking in his eyes, or a left uppercut. Change the angle of the punch, but use the same arm. That's when you get really effective. And you see this in boxing and Thai boxing.

Everybody who does it is really effective at it. Yet he didn't do it. They got paid $80 million and $180 million. You would expect to do that. You had a shoulder injury. That doesn't prevent him from throwing a double left or a double right. Mike Tyson, spleen right uppercut. I think he knocked six guys out like that.

Oh, yeah. Bang, bang. Over. Unusual patterns. Yep. That's it. Yeah. Did you ever see the, well, John Wayne Parr has got a fucking amazing highlight reel,

but I put one of them on my Instagram page the other day where he hits this guy with like seven uppercuts in a row with the right side. Just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Like, you can't prepare. You don't know the guy's going to do that. I do this. Yesterday in my class, double right uppercuts in a row with the right side. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. You can't prepare. You don't know the guy's going to do that. I do this. Yesterday in my class, double right uppercut left. People don't know.

Double left. I had Hector Pena. He had three left uppercuts. And the third one, the guy fell already down. He hit him on the way down. Three left uppercuts. Here's the John Wayne Parr highlight. I love this highlight.

Look at this. Boom, boom, boom. He's an animal. If one is good, two is better. John Wayne Parr highlight. I love this highlight. He was such a, look at this. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah. He's an animal. If one is good, two is better. John Wayne Parr is a wild motherfucker. Yeah, he really is. And a great guy, too.

Total animal. He also came up with that striking organization where he lives with the Emma Maygloves, pretty much, right? It's his. Cage Muay Thai. I love that combination. I never got anybody who doesn't do that. Why they don't do that here?

Well, they should, and maybe he can bring it to the United States. But, you know, what he wanted to do was have, like, cage. Like, he likes the cage. He likes the fact that you're trapped in there, and he likes the small gloves. Yeah. So he's like, let's just do this and fuck the ground game. Let's just strike like this. I love a guy like that.

Yeah. He's a wild guy, man. He's fun. Have you ever seen the pictures of his face? Like, how many times he's been stitched up? Oh, no, I can only imagine. There's a picture of John Wayne Parr's face after one of his fights where his entire face is like a roadmap of stitches.

It's fucking crazy. See if you can find that picture because it's one of those pictures you just look at and you start shaking your head and blinking like, what the fuck? His whole face is like patched together look at look at this photograph look at this oh jesus christ it's real yes that is the craziest thing it's one fight it's one fight his entire face was a thai guy or what yeah oh yeah he got the shit elbowed out of him wow it's it's such an insane photo he's over face yeah he's over 300 stitches in his face 300 wow yeah well and he's well the ears are still good at least he doesn't have the cauliflower

he's been hit there as well yeah it's from shots yeah not really from grappling yeah he fought one mma fight but you know he's just never really trained grappling it's not really his thing. Yeah. But as fucking as Muay Thai goes. I trained with him. I got a chance to work out with him and learn some techniques from him. Everything he throws is with power. The way he throws a jab, he pulls the right hand back as he throws the jab.

He doesn't just jab like a boxer would throw a jab. The way he jabs, he's like pulling back the right and stepping forward. He's like, everything he throws is designed to kill you. But that's been my thing also. I like it like that. Everything you throw, make them...

When you said in the beginning, I kick somebody and you see their faces, and I don't care if they block it. I just kick as hard as I can on the defense just to get inside their heads that they know that you better block this kick. Yeah. Because next time

if you're not blocking it, you're going to have, it's going to be a problem. You know, and then you start breaking your opponent down mentally. Hit him. Or hold the hands up high.

Just hit as hard as you can on the hands. Yeah. A lot of guys don't do that. They truly believe that this is enough defense for like a right hook. It's not.

It's like me putting on a helmet. I say this in seminars, at seminars. Okay, imagine I would tape a focus mitt to my face and you can give me a straight punch or a hook. You think I go down. And everybody goes, yeah, of course you're going to go down. I say, so why is everybody doing this? You make yourself one with your head.

I'm just going to hit your hand as hard as I can. You will still go down. Yeah. You know, but what happens in the mind of a fighter, as soon as I hit you and I see your hand going up, automatically I let my power off because it's like, oh,

it's, it's defended. Right. But if you just don't care or clothesline him, like I said at the beginning, it'll go straight through. Yeah. Well,

you started throwing kicks in the Pancrase days, I remember, you know, because I came from a kicking background, there was not that many good kickers in MMA. Before Maurice Smith fought Conan, we really didn't see that many head kick KOs in MMA. Yeah. And especially against a black belt. When Maurice fought Conan Silveira, it was the first time.

That was in... No, it was in that other one. It was in the John Peretti organization, wasn't it? Oh, Battlecade? Battlecade? Extreme Fighting? Yeah, Extreme Fighting. Yeah, and that was the first time I was like, okay, now we're finally seeing a guy who can throw some kicks in MMA. But the first

time really was you in Pancrase because you would... And they make you wear those crazy boots. You had like wrestling shoes on with a big boot shin in step. Slash thing, yeah. Yeah, but you still would slam that kick into their arms. And you'd see, like, nobody wants to hold pads for a guy like that. No.

Forget about like getting it on your raw arm. But, you know, it's a great way to go into a fight because you know you're capable of doing that. Yeah. So you only have to connect, you know. And if you know that you only have to connect, just wait and connect. And I also, I'm not the guy who likes to get hit. I don't mind, but I'd rather not.

So I just use movement. And then just explode at moments that you need to explode. How many fighters are you training right now? Do you train any active guys? No. I train a few guys at my gym, but I've been traveling a lot now, so the train a few guys at my gym but I've been traveling a lot now so the coaches that I have at my gym are training them

but we got only three three pros and then a bunch of amateur guys so you're still you're still doing inside MMA with Ken Kenny yeah and you do World Series of Fighting still which is a fight, this weekend coming up on, what is it? Saturday, this Saturday on NBCSN. Really? Okay, nice. Yeah, Moraes is fighting again. He's very talented.

I like his footwork, too. That's a guy that people sleep on. Yeah. Yeah, they don't really realize how talented that guy is. And it's unfortunate that World Series of Fighting is not getting as much attention as it deserves. Yeah, well, there's a lot of MMA out there now. You know, it's very hard to pull eyeballs to it. But it's the same with Glory.

Glory doesn't have the eyeballs, which blows me away, because if there's something exciting, you know, it's a Glory event. And that Justin Gagey kid, too. Oh, what an animal, eh? Fucking savage. Yeah, he's cool. He's fun. That guy's fun.

Fun to watch. You know, he should tone a little down, I always say. But maybe it's his fight style and he just wants to go. Because sometimes he gets hit hard. And I think eventually, we had that with Clay Giedow. You know, like fighters, eventually it's going to break. Yeah, something's going to give. Yeah, you can only get hit hard and just walk through things so much

until eventually your body doesn't cooperate anymore. And then, most of the time, once that happens, it's going to happen a lot. So there's a lot of crazy shit going on right now in MMA. The big one to me, the one that I'm most excited about is March 5th, Conor McGregor versus Dos Anjos. That is a fucking crazy fight. First of all, who the hell has ever been like Conor? Yep.

Well, I mean, the best shit talker of all time. Hilarious. I'm in love with that guy. I love him. I love everything about him. We had him on the show. He's funny. You know, everything he does, every speech he does, it's different.

It's not like he's repeating everything I do. Like, if I do an interview before, and it's about, let's say, a movie, you know, you say the same thing over and over again. But he doesn't. No. You know? And he doesn't really use profanity as well. So it keeps it clean but very imposing.

Very hot, yeah. You can use it on television. Oh, so great, you know. How about when he wore the El Chapo shirt? Oh, how crazy is he? Who does that? But you see, but he gets in everybody's head. Yeah.

That's why he beat Aldo. You could tell. You could simply tell. Everybody could say, oh, no, I'm used to that. I grew up on the street. Rafael Dos Anjos says that also. I say, eventually, it's going to come through. You've got to start doing something back.

There's a few fun things that you always can do. Dos Anjos is not engaging him. I like the way Dos Anjos is handling it. He's just letting him talk and he's like, when we fight, this will not matter. He's just like solid and stoic. I think he's also learning the lesson of how Aldo sort of

got rattled by it and he's not going to get rattled. I think Dos Anjos is a different guy. Dos Anjos is... He's even doing the Chapo pose. Chapo is shaking hands with Sean Penn in that picture. He's so fucking crazy. I love him.

God, that guy's fucking awesome. He's hilarious. And he can fucking fight. He can fight. He's got great reflexes. I mean, his timing is really good. He's using his reach really well. And the way Firas Zahabi

described his left hand. Firas Zahabi, by the way, did an amazing breakdown. If you're listening to this, go to YouTube. Firas Zahabi, his left hand. Firasahabi, by the way, did an amazing breakdown. If you're listening to this, go to YouTube. Firasahabi, who in my mind is one of the true great masters of MMA training. He does an amazing breakdown of this fight. But the way he describes Conor, he's like he's got the touch of death in that left hand.

And it's true. He just lights guys up with that left hand. Plus, it's laser guided. It's on target. He just doesn't hit the head. He won't hit your jaw. Yeah, he's so accurate. Great timing. So accurate and so beautiful with his footwork. The way he slid out of the way of

Aldo's advance and just dropped that left hand in. But, you know, RDA is... Different man. This guy, you know, in the beginning, I go, he's always under the radar, right? And suddenly he's, boom, he's there. Yeah. And he's just beating everybody. I mean, Cerrone? I never expected that. He's a monster. Yeah, he really is.

Well, a lot of what's going on, too, is his conditioning is off the charts. He's working with Nick Curzon, who's one of the disciples of Marv Marinovich, and they've got him doing these crazy, explosive, plyometric drills drills and all these footwork drills. And if you've ever seen his training routine, you're realizing they got a fucking oxygen mask on him. And he's throwing body shots on the bag. It's all this incredible, brutal breakdown for strength and conditioning. So that he could really go five rounds like that. There's no such thing as having enough stamina.

That's what I always tell everybody. There's no such thing. You got to go all the way. That's why I trained so hard because I don't want to have that. There's no such thing as having enough stamina. That's what I always tell everybody. There's no such thing. You've got to go all the way. That's why I trained so hard because I don't want to have that. I had the experience in Thai boxing one time when I ran out of gas. It's not fun. And especially in longer rounds and with an opponent

seeing, you know, he goes, is he getting tired? Now they get wings. They turn it on and you're in a bad spot there. It's the worst thing in the world to see an opponent notice that you're tired and he's not and he's coming after you and he starts dropping low kicks on you and punching you in the face and you can't do anything your body's not cooperating and it's get worse because then your breathing starts going wrong the breathing pattern it's not relaxed anymore you have to start

flexing because the punches are coming, it'll take your stamina even more away, everything goes downhill. Stamina's a weapon. Stamina is a weapon. It really is. I mean, look at Nick Diaz, who is a guy who fought so many guys and outworked them. I mean, the Frank Shamrock fight is a perfect example of that fight. He just

kept popping them with punches, like 50% punches, but he's hitting them and he can't breathe. Because when a person is punching you, even if they're punching you and it's not full blast, you're still tightening up. So you don't get a chance to breathe. And Nick Diaz just doesn't get tired. Does ultra marathons. The fucking guy swam from Alcatraz twice.

I mean, he's in incredible shape. He's done triathlons. I don't know if he's done ultra marathons. He'll probably take that back. But swimming from Alcatraz is a fucking crazy endeavor. It's a current day, right? And he's done triathlons. I don't know if he's done ultramarathons. He'll probably take that back. Swimming from Alcatraz is a fucking crazy endeavor. He's done it twice. Well, Pettis, for instance, I thought he was never going to lose.

The only times he was losing was against guys with great stamina. Clay Gita and an RDA who just keep pushing the fight. The grappling with Gita. I think physically, Pettis is not strong enough for those guys. Guys like Dos Anjos that just put it to him, or Eddie Alvarez who just put it to him.

The physical, like they turn it into one of those grueling wrestling matches. I mean, I think his takedown defense is pretty good, and I think his grappling is not bad. I mean, he won the title with an armbar against Benson Henderson. But I just think physically, when it comes to these grueling exchanges, I just don't know if he's physically strong enough to fight that kind of fight with Lega Dos Anjos. Yep. Or even Eddie Alvarez in that fight. Yeah, well, footwork again.

He's going to need a lot of footwork. Like in Marias, he stops takedowns, but, well, he doesn't even stop and just moves out of the way. Moves out of the way and lights guys up, too. And his power, too. That's a big thing. And Pettis has a lot of power, too. I mean, I'm not counting Pettis out. Pettis could easily come back and win the title again. I mean, he's a too. And his power too. That's a big thing. And Pettis has a lot of power too. I mean, I'm not counting Pettis out. Pettis could easily come back and win the title again.

He's a monster. I never expected him to lose. I thought because he's this complete package. He was a great striker with great submissions. Take down the fence. I go, okay. This is the guy. Put him on the weedy box. He put away Cerrone even better and more impressive than Dos Anjos.

Yeah, that was the craziest thing. Dos Anjos, he hurt Cerrone and battered him up against the cage, but I thought the stoppage was so weird because he looked at the referee and he's telling the referee to stop the fight, and Cerrone's turtled up and he's still covering up. I don't know when a fight should be stopped in that situation. When a guy gets hurt to the body, he's obviously hurt, but Dos Anjos is hitting him and Cowboy's covering up.

When do you stop a fight? If a guy's covering up and you're hitting his arms, he's trying to get back up to his feet, when does a fight get stopped? When is it okay? Because some referees wouldn't have stopped the fight. Yeah, you're right. Here's a perfect example.

Chris Weidman versus Luke Rockhold. When Luke Rockhold got on top of Chris Weidman at the end of the round, was beating the fuck out of him, I was saying they should stop that fight. I'm like, he's not defending himself. But that's not the same as the Cowboy Cerrone-Dos Anjos fight. I'm like, man, that was a little bit of a more controversial stoppage. Yeah, because it's still under the defense. Yeah, no, they shouldn't stop. What else is he going to do?

If he doesn't cover up, he's going to get hit with a punch. So he's got to cover up. And when you're covering up and the guy's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, there's not a lot you can do. Yeah. Because you've got to put your hand down to get up,

and if you put your hand down to get up, you're going to get tagged. Yep. So it's kind of, it's almost like a guy can have a fight stopped without you being in real trouble, although Cowboy was certainly in trouble. But it's a weird little kind of a – it's so subjective.

It's up to the referee to decide. It's a very hard decision. That's why I don't want to be a referee. It's a very hard decision to make. It really is. It's never good. You're never great. But you're there for the safety of the fighters.

If they don't – they're on the ground. They don't defend them. I say stop right away. If they really – because they don't. That's why they're doing it. Right. I mean, you know how –'re on the ground, they don't defend them, I say stop right away. If they really, because they don't, that's why they're doing it. I mean, you know how, like a big John, he tells me, and I've seen him doing it against the fighters in the dressing room,

he'll tell them, do not come to me after the fight, that if you lay on the ground and a guy hits you and you're just bugging up, I will stop the fight. And he says it two or three times. Do not come to me after the fight and complain about it because you know right now, improve your position. And sometimes you don't see that. Also with, for instance, guillotine attempts

or you see guys who defend the guillotine like a standing still. And I go, don't defend the guillotine, you know, go for position. Make sure that you get close. You hold a hand, make sure he doesn't jump guard. Because if you defend, well, look at Pat Miletic against Hansel Gracie in the IFL. He was defending the choke.

And yeah, he jumps guard. Now he's got him. Ronda Rousey against Karmush. You know, she's got a crazy crank on her head. And instead of defending, people say, oh, defend, defend. No, no, no. She didn't. She's in a position.

She grabbed the foot, feet, unlocked the feet, and she got out. She took a chance. She took a chance. And that's what people should do. On the ground also, they say to me, yeah, but if they hit you, I say, escape. Buck up, move to this. If you buck up, they're going to have to look for balance. Make sure they never sit on your chest.

Push them always to your belly. If you can't push them to your belly, you hold the knees and you push yourself upwards. Same result. He's sitting on your belly. But you got't push him to your belly, you hold the knees and you push yourself upwards. Same result. He's sitting on your belly. But you got to go, you got to move. How easy is it for you if somebody mounts you

to go to put him in at least a half guard? Well, you got to train that. It's really easy, right? I think a lot of guys don't train off their back that much. It's the craziest thing.

It drives me nuts. Get him in the guard, man. Why? A mount position, it shouldn't even be happening. You don't have to go to the side. Mount position, when they can stop you, it's only when they stretch you out, they hook their feet, you know?

But then there's not a lot they can do because you just stop their arms. Well, it's interesting when you see different levels of their game off their back. Like Brian Ortega. Have you been watching that guy fight? Jesus fucking Christ, his triangles are good. His guard game is so good. And he's one of those guys, he's like a gold standard for how to fight off your back. When they get him on his back, he is just attacking, attacking.

You're not going to get him stagnant where he's just lying there waiting for the referee to stand him back up. That's it. And when you've got that kind of a ground game off your back, it's a totally new dimension for your opponents. They're used to taking a guy down and maybe throwing some body punches. With him, you're fucking defending. Defending the whole time. Your legs are up on your neck

and you've got to try to posture up and get out of there. That's the gold standard and that's what everybody should aspire to, to have that kind of a dangerous ground game. Yep, that's why I thought, for instance, Johnny Hendricks versus... Wonderboy? No, no, no.

Oh, my God. How can I forget him? Carlos Condit? Carlos Condit, the National Bullkin, I was going to say. Yeah. I mean, I thought Condit won that because he's constantly attacking on the ground. And if somebody's on top of you and he hits you once every what time, that shouldn't count. And if somebody's on top of you and he hits you once every what time, that shouldn't count.

If the strike on the feet, if it goes to a decision and nobody gets really hurt, but the guy who's constantly attacking is going to win the fight, right? Right. Okay, so why doesn't that count on the ground? Yeah, I agree. Just because the guy's on top doesn't mean he's winning. No. How about the fact that that's how you won the title versus Kevin Randman? Oh, yeah.

That was with striking. That was not even with submission attempts. Exactly. But like, man, there was... Well, Randman took you down and you just kept attacking from your back.

Yeah, that's what McCarthy said later. I didn't put him back on his feet because Boss was working from his back. That was the reason they didn't put us

back on the feet. But you know, if you have guys like Carlos Contes or what you saw a lot at Pride also, great groundwork and they're constantly attacking

and then they get rewarded for that after the fight. They actually win the fight and it should be because people go, yeah, but the defense is also... No, no, it's not about the defense. Same as the strike.

It's not about that. You know, it's about the guy who takes the chances because we all know if you have somebody in the guard, you go for an armbar, there's a high possibility there's going to be a side mount now.

That's the worst position for you. So you're taking risks and if you're willing to take those risks, they should be rewarded. Well, I also like pride. I like that 10-minute first round. That was good, huh?

It makes it more strategical. Yeah. You really can't burn out in the beginning. That was the thing with Pankrus in the beginning, but 30-minute fights. That's why the R's came on my hand, because that means rustic, which is relax, because I was such a hothead in Thai boxing.

Like, somebody hits me, I just knock them out. And I go, man, these Japanese guys are known for being tough. If this happens the first three minutes, I get 27 more minutes to go. If I'm empty, that's not a good thing. So, stay calm, stay calm. You start being more strategical. So, pancreas, was there any rounds? Or was it just 30 minutes?

At the end. In the end, there were a few, like the undercut were 10-minute fights, but most of the time everything was 15 minutes, and the title fights in the end was 30. In the beginning, the first year and a half, it was all 30 minutes. 30 minutes, one round. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a real strategic fight. I'm a fan of that, though. I like that. I like that, too. But, you know, and again, if you look at some UFC fights where they just lay and lay and lay, then, you know, in old days, you remember, without the stand-ups, yeah, then it becomes kind of boring. But that was one of the things when I moved to Pancras, I always tell this story.

When I saw my opponent, he was 45 pounds heavier. And I asked when the weigh-in was. He says, there's no weigh-in. It's a we, everybody fights everybody. I go, oh, that's great. Nice. I was just bluffing, of course. And I go, okay, so how many rounds? We got one round.

One round, awesome. How many minutes? 30. I go, awesome, awesome. And I look at my manager. I go, dude, 30-minute fight. 45 more pounds than me. As opposed to a three-minute kickboxing fight. That's what I was thinking. Three-minute round for as opposed to a 3 minute kickboxing fight

that's what I was thinking I came from kickboxing so yeah that opened my eyes a little bit there and you become more strategical that's a good thing well it's also good for grapplers when they work like say if you have a 5 minute fight or a 5 minute round and you work for 4 minutes

and 30 seconds to get the fight to the ground you only have 30 seconds to try to secure a submission whereas if you take a guy to the ground in a 10 minute fight and you're four minutes and 30 seconds to get the fight to the ground, you only have 30 seconds to try to secure a submission. Whereas if you take a guy to the ground in a 10-minute fight and you're four minutes and 30 seconds, now you have five minutes and 30 seconds to try to finish him, which is a lot of time. Yeah, but there's always the other side of the metal. You can say, well, they should have taken them down sooner.

Or these guys who say, yeah, but I just need more work on the ground. Well, just go faster. This is the game. You have to adapt and not the other way around. Yeah. Well, you could definitely look at it that way. What do you think about Fabrizio Verdum returning against Kane? I think it's going to be a great fight.

I think, again, like, okay, we know that stamina played a big factor. Huge. But Verdum, man, he's only been on an arrow that's going straight up since Pride. Yeah. I mean, always that fight that he lost against Alistair, really loose. I think if you would count the punches and the kicks that Alistair get in, because I was afraid at that time, because I was at Alistair's, he was a big friend of mine at that time, and I go, ooh, because Verdum hit him more.

Yeah. Connected more. Well, Verdum blew his knee out, time, and I go, ooh, because Verdum hit him more. Connected more. Well, Verdum blew his knee out, too, in that fight. Yeah, see? And Verdum's striking now with Cordero. They're just working really well together. Same with RDA and everybody there. They're doing just a phenomenal job.

Yeah, Rafael Cordero is just what a great striking coach that guy is. He's done an amazing job. Yeah, because you can talk to the guy. They barbecue together. He's there in your best interest. That's Dwayne Ludwig. Same guy. The late Sean Tompkins.

All these guys are all the way there. I remember stories with Sean. We would come home partying 5, 6 in the morning. He would go straight, if it was the day of the weigh-in, straight to the sauna with the guys, helping them focus if they wanted to lose weight with the guys, putting him, helping him focus mids if they wanted to lose weight. He never, ever missed a beat, you know?

And like Dwayne has it also. A lot of trainers have that, but there's a whole bunch of trainers, you know as well as I do, who don't have that. Yeah, well, you've got to be completely obsessed to be a great trainer. I mean, that's what makes Ludwig so good.

He's completely obsessed. Yes. And those, I mean, it's the same with a fighter. It's the same with anything. If you're not completely obsessed, you're just not going to reach your potential. That's it. You need to like it also. I was talking about that yesterday.

You can have all the talent if you don't like it. If you hear fighters, which blows my mind always when I hear Quentin, for instance, he says, I hate training. And I go, wow, I love training. I want to get tired. I want to try new stuff. I always loved it. Till the end when I got my tendonitis and everything started hurting really, really bad.

You know, then you can't even think straight anymore. That's when I stopped. But before that, I always loved it. And if you love something, you know, same in school when you were a kid. You know, math. Well, I don't know math, but you were good at the things that you liked your biology oh i love biology boom ace you know it's it's all the things that you like you automatically do your best for it's simple yeah if you're a passionate person if you're passionate about what you're pursuing you're going to do better than a person

who's just doing it as a job and quentin has so much talent i mean an unbelievable power he's got a fantastic chin yeah right away er away, Arona pops up, right? Always, huh? Oh my god. Always. When you talk about Quentin, he's the first. And he arched even backwards. Yeah. He didn't go straight up. He actually went a little further, and then he slammed him. That was the most spectacular

slam KO in the history of MMA. Yeah. Ricardo Arona had him locked up in a triangle, and Quentin slammed him into oblivion and headbutted him too on the way down I mean inadvertent headbutt but slammed him and then his head slammed into him too

oh my god that was a horrific fight Ricardo never recovered from that fight Ricardo I read a cool story about Kevin Randall when he was talking I read it on Shurdog that he said he just fought Kevin and he won he says, I was in the dressing room by myself in Japan. There was nobody

there and I was just taken in because I just won the most important fight of my career. And he said suddenly he sees a shadow and he thinks it was Randleman. So he automatically said at that time everybody was fighting. It was before, after, didn't really matter. It was this fighting thing. And Randleman came in and he thought there was going to be a fight and Randleman walked up to. It was before, after, didn't really matter. It was this fighting thing.

And Randleman came in and he thought there was going to be a fight. And Randleman walked up to him and he said, dude, great job. Congratulations. You know, you're awesome. And it blew me away, he said. Right away, I saw the monster as a different person. That's so hard now also with Randleman. You know him.

Everybody who knows him is such a good guy. Yeah, he was a great guy. He was a really friendly, happy-go-lucky guy. It's so unfortunate. I don't know what happened with him. What happened with Sean Tompkins? How did Sean wind up dying? You know, this was the saddest thing ever because when I went to the funeral, he was in the coffin.

I didn't want to see that. I did that one time with a friend of mine and I didn't like that. So I said, I don't want to do it. And his mother, it was so sad, man. She came to me crying

and she said, he was home and that weekend she was going to tell him that he had to go to the doctor because in the family, it runs in the family that they have enlarged hearts and he needs to check that out. And that was what was going to tell him that he had to go to the doctor because in the family, it runs in the family that they have enlarged hearts.

And he needs to check that out. And that was what was going down there. It was no drugs, no nothing, because people started, of course, the conspiracy theories. They didn't find anything, find anything. And the crazy thing was I talked the day before with Sean. It was so weird because then you guys announced it on UFC. And it was, I go, whoa, Sean. So I started Googling. But he, it was so weird because then you guys announced it on usc and it was i go whoa sean so i started i started googling but he it was so weird he texted me something and i thought for some reason i thought

oh he wants to talk to me because normally we would text so i picked up the phone and i called him and he was going out with muscle beach one of our friends that's we'd call him muscle beach and he was um he muscle beach was drunk and and he says I can't leave a man behind I'm going to stay with him you know I'm going to make sure he's going to be okay boom

and he kept going boss boss and the problem that I was reading about didn't even come up we started talking about everything it was a great

great time he says boss I love you you know that I really love you and then finally when we hang up he starts texting

you know that I love you the whole team Tompkins, loves you. It was really weird. He never did that. And the next day, he passed away. Wow. So it was almost like he felt that it was going to happen.

Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, he was another guy that was really loved by the guys that he trained. Those relationships between trainers and students students trainers and fighters are so important you know and it's so hard for a fighter to find the right trainer the right trainer that fits their personality someone who's technical you know someone who has also that emotional bond

that's the thing the 100 commitment that's the thing and it being a fighter it's all sounds cool and that's why a lot of guys don't make it, because they only want to look cool. You know, you don't really fight to fight. Like, once the fighters start fighting for money, you know, don't do that. Then it's going downhill. Yeah, but I need a paycheck. Then don't fight.

Find another job. You need that commitment. You need to be 100%. And it's the same with the trainers. You know, you can be off for a little bit, because this guy is going to go in the ring or in the cage. And you have to make sure he's going to stay safe. Yeah, when you see a fighter that's only fighting for the paycheck, it very rarely works out. It just very rarely works.

Not at a championship level. I mean, it might be okay at a journeyman level. You might pull it off if you're tough and you're skilled. But to beat the best guys, you have to be obsessed like the best guys are obsessed. Yeah, you want to be the best. It's not about the payday. I said that will come if you are the best. The payday will be better, but focus on getting good and fighting for yourself, I always say.

Don't put your family at number one spot. I understand you want to do that, but once you start, that means that you care, care, care. It's a very, how do you say it? It's selfish. It should be selfish. You should be, I fight for me. I don't care. The way I explain it to my students when they, for instance, they're nervous.

I say, okay, let's take a step back. Imagine your opponent now and you go in a room, they lock the room, and you guys are going to compete against each other. Whoever wins, doesn't matter who wins. When the door opens, both of you are not going to say who won or lost. Nobody's going to say.

Do you really care if you lose at that moment? And he goes like, no, yeah, because no, because he's just a better fighter right i said so why do you care and then they start realizing ah it's because the people oh but he might think this and he might think this and you see and that's why i always say fight for yourself if you lose you give it your all you are always a winner it doesn't matter you know what bad is not going all the way not using all your potential and then lose because you didn't do that. That's something that after a fight you're going to say, oh, man, I could have gone harder.

So why didn't you? You know, just leave it all out there. And if you leave it all out there, there's no excuses. And every other fighter will really enjoy you, winning or losing. How many fighters you have who never became a champion, but I hear all the other fighters talking about them. Say, oh, you fight him? Oh, dude, really? That guy's crazy.

Yeah, you better prepare now. Because it's going to be a nightmare to fight that guy. You see, that's what I think is the most important. If your peers like it, the way you fight, you're good. You can't really lose. Yeah, like a guy like Chuck Liddell. He has that incredible fan base because he always fought with everything he had.

And whether he lost by knockout or won by knockout, people still loved him. That's it. Didn't lose a fan. I always use Chuck as an example. And that's what every fan, and all my students, look at Chuck Liddell. I want you to be like that.

Leave it out there. You know? I just want you to listen a little bit more, because if I would get in Chuck's head, as soon as Chuck hits somebody, that's the same with Benji Reddick, they have one vision, and that's the knockout. And they forget about the rest. Defense.

Defense. And I say, as soon as you hit somebody, step back. You're going to have some time, don't worry. But you just hit the head. Okay, what is he going to protect now? The head. Go for the body. Do a cross-hook cross to the body.

Nobody does that. But do it as hard as you can. Cross-hook cross and then a left hook to the head. Ba-ba-ba-boom. Suddenly there's a left hook to the head. If you do the cross-hook cross as hard as you can, you will force them to block it, which will open up for the left hook to the head.

Same as with the body, body, head. You know, body, body, head. And they go, pa-pa, boom. Pa-pa, boom. I say, yeah, it won't work like that. You see a Rico Verhoeven, who does his first mixed martial arts fight, body, boom, body, boom, and then the head.

Now, with the first two body shots, if this guy doesn't block him, he's going to get knocked out to the body. So now he respects your power. That's what Mike Tyson did. Spleen right uppercut. He hits you so hard in the spleen that the second time when he loads up, he thinks it's going to be the same punch. But then he changes the angle to an uppercut.

And his defense is here for the spleen shot. If you do it powerful and hard, it will work. But if you do a body, body, head, body, body, you know, it's not going to work. Make everything count. Yeah, a lot of guys are trying to conserve their energy. I did after a workout, I would put the back on the ground and I would 30 minutes just go. Punching on the back, on the ground, rolling in the guard, keeping hit. You don't get tired from that. Come on, guys. You don't really get tired. There's nothing there. You can

just go. What is he going to do if he's on his back? He's going to hit you back. He's not going to hit you back. You got to watch out for submissions, but that's not going to get you in trouble with your stamina. Just go. Just go. Do you think now, like looking back, when you have this tendinitis and all these other issues,

were you too tough for your body? Is that what it is? No. What I think is that because I was so sick as a kid that they overflowed me with cortisones. I had so many cortisones. There were moments, I believe it was like 46 pills a day I took. I had really bad skin disease. Excellent. Yeah.

So I had a lot of stuff that I took for that and and the the test they did on me i mean every week i had to go get 20 shots 10 shots in each arm and what they would do they would inject a little tiny bit of where you were allergic for and then hopefully it's like the flu vaccine they hopefully the body finds a way to counter-attack that but every time when they do that i'll be sick and so i needed to recoup from that the whole time. And I think eventually the cortisones, because they're really bad for the bones and the tendons, I think the cortisones

really got my tendonitis. That's the reason. That's interesting. I never heard that before. I never heard of anybody having that many shots as a kid and then going on to be a world championship fighter. The craziest thing is that when I was young, I did track and field. I never heard of anybody having that many shots as a kid and then going on to be a world championship fighter. Yeah, me neither.

And the craziest thing is that when I was young, I did track and field. And I did it at a pretty high level already because I wanted to be the next Bruce Jenner at the time. He was my hero. I mean, that's how old I was. He was the guy, the decathlon guy. That's what I wanted to do. And I remember in the end, every time with Javelin had i already had that tendonitis and i started recognizing that and i don't know why it stayed away my entire career and came back only at the end it's got to be the gods of god telling me okay

it's good you become a fighter you know but um for some reason at the end it came back but i remember the pain from when i was 14 years old do you have a desire to train like championship level fighters because I see like you're talking about what guys don't do correctly and what you would like to see them do like do you have this desire to get involved with someone who's like really trying to make a run at a title no you know I I enjoy things like for instance Rico Vrhova came in last week love Love that guy. You know, yeah, because he's an athlete, not just a martial artist. Glory heavyweight champion.

Glory heavyweight champion. Amazing kickboxer. So when he said he was going to do MMA, I sent him an email right away. I said, listen, Rico, come to me. Give me two hours of my time. I'll show you things that are going to be very, very helpful for you. I'm not looking to be a coach because I don't have the time for that. I'm way too busy for that.

But I can get you in two hours, I can get you a lot of information. Or like, for instance, John Jones, a while back, I was interviewing him and then he said right away, I was in Albuquerque, what are you going to do after this?

I said to my hotel, I said, man, do you want to train me? You see, those are guys who really want to learn. And then once you start learning and these guys listen, and then suddenly they start being more explosive with kicking and punching, they go like, dude, this is crazy. You know, like sound effects I do a lot.

Pop, pop, pop, pop. High-pitched sound effects. If you see somebody, for instance, if you do the focus mitts or you hit a bag, you go, pom, pom, pom, pom. One, two, three, four, like that punch. And so if you just stop and you go, in your mind you go, just do that. And then just by doing that, your body automatically will adapt and will get more explosive. And he realized that. And he goes, wow.

And the next week or two weeks later, we had Greg Jackson on the show. And Greg tells me, he says, man, what have you been teaching? And I said, what do you mean? He says, everybody makes these crazy sound effects. I said, do they hit faster and harder? And he goes, yeah. I said, so be it. So it really works to get in people's heads.

And then if you have an athlete like Jones who will listen to you, yeah, that's gold. But if a guy like that came to you, if a guy like that came to you and said, listen, boss, I want you to train me is that something you would be interested

in doing yeah it's gonna be hard it depends but you know the TV show now the new podcast the gym I mean there's so much stuff

the World Series of Fighting that I suddenly cannot do because then we gotta have the 100% commitment right you know I like a lot

because I'm a very basic guy. Everything is the basics with me because everybody forgets the basics. So most of the time when somebody comes out, like Tim Sylvia, a while ago he came to my gym and he threw the left hook wrong. And I tell him, I said, man, this can be way harder. And he started learning to throw the hook without loading up

and he won his fight in 15 seconds with the left hook. He goes, dude, this is crazy it works that i enjoy to give them an hour time and show them what they do wrong and then if they actually listen to it they realize why wait a minute i got more power you know i don't try to change the style i just show them how you get maximum power and if you mix that up between your styles that's up up to you. But I see you have this incredible passion about this. Oh, yeah. I love it. About improving guys

and about working on technique. That's why I'm curious. Have you ever thought about just going into training? Yeah. Just too busy? Too busy, but also,

I don't know anymore, but a lot of guys that you do over the years and you invest a lot of time in. And it doesn't work out. And it doesn't work out or they get a better deal somewhere else and they just leave you. And you see this with a lot of fighters, you know, and trainers.

Finally, the trainer has something or a manager and then they just kick him to the side because I'm going to save 10% here. I'm going to do it. You know, then. But then again, those guys, most of the time, you see them losing. Yeah. You know, because you broke the winning combination. If you have something, my stretching routine,

and everybody always says, please post it because you always talk about this. My stretching routine is the same as it was when I started in 93. Well, that's probably even before with my karate. And they say, you never change that. I say, no, I never change that. Why wouldn't you do more? I said, because with that stretching routine,

I never had a problem. Why would I change it? It never gave me a problem in training. You see? So now if I start adding things or subtracting things, suddenly I get injured. It's just my own fault. I had a winning combination.

It always helped me. Let's not break that. Let's keep it the same. And that's with everything. Yeah. It's just, I know that you have your gym in Thousand Oaks. Yep. What's it called?

The Westlake Village. Boss Rudin's Elite MMA. And it's mostly recreational people, is that what it is? That's it, yeah. Tuesdays, Thursdays, I'm there at 6 o'clock. What kind of classes do you teach up there? Tuesdays is mostly striking, only striking. And Thursdays, I start with ground, but only like for 20 minutes, because people want to work out.

Right. Like the fight, if I do fight classes with the fighters, yeah, we do a lot of ground escapes and reversals. I always start like that. That's how I trained. I never started on my knees with grappling. I always lay on my back, and I tell my partner, you can take any position you want. That's so important.

It's so important. It's the most important thing for a striker. Put yourself in a bad spot. Put yourself in a bad spot and figure out how to be comfortable in those bad spots and work out of them all the time. That's so important. It's so important. It's the most important thing for a striker. Put yourself in a bad spot. Put yourself in a bad spot and figure out how to be comfortable in those bad spots and work out of them all the time. That's it. You know, and with basics, I had a student one time coming over to me after class, and he said, Buzz, you know what's funny? I said, tell me.

He says, I've been working here now for three years, and you're teaching the same stuff. I said, yeah, that is funny. I said, you want to hear something more funny? And he goes, yeah. I say, you're still not doing it. And the reason I'm doing this is because of people like you. Because you guys don't listen. That's funny. Look around. Yeah.

They don't. They don't do it. Everybody forgets the basics. They all want to do the spinning back kicks to the head and the back fists and the crazy elbows and doing that. Forget about basic stuff. A simple one-two, how many times in boxing you see a knockout, highest level on the planet, a one-two will do the trick. It's just the timing and when you throw it.

The timing, the efficiency of the technique and having it down where you own it. Yep, that's it. Yeah. So you're enjoying teaching. You enjoy teaching a couple times a week. You enjoy doing that. Yeah, that's why I'm doing it.

And your striking class, are guys sparring in there? Or are they mostly just working on technique? It's all technique. And my classes, you go, like, you see girls that I have in my class, when I strike the double left, double right, I can tell them any combination. And people who are watching, they go, like, whoa, what is this? But they've been with me for a while. And they're very technical.

And they do really well with the striking. Like yesterday, again, they were laughing about it. These two girls always work together. Laura and Dana, they're really good. They're probably going to listen to this also. But I said, listen, everybody throws a low kick at the end, for instance, a combination with a low kick. But once you do that in a class, the low kick, they have their hands always down. So I let them do it to me, that combination.

And then just before they make the low kick, I stretch my hand in front of their face. And I say, I want everybody to do this because I just walked around, I said, and there were only three people from the 22 or 24 people there were doing it. Just keep your hands up. You don't have to hit them. Just make them be aware that that could be a punch.

Keep your hands up. And I walked over and they said, were we one of the three? I said, you know you were one of the three. Because you guys are always doing it. It's just a habit. Make a good habit and don't lose the habit. But unfortunately, a lot of guys lose it.

Now, what is this podcast you're doing with Mauro? That was one of the reasons why you guys wanted to come in here together. And like you said, unfortunately, Mauro got sick. But you guys are doing a podcast together. We're doing a podcast, Rutan and Ronello, it's called, Rutan and Ronello

and it's on iTunes, SoundCloud, it's everywhere. It's a really fun, people have no clue who Mauro really is. You know, they start now

because that big piece on Sherlock, you know, he's bipolar, you know, and he goes up and down but the guy is a genius. Like,

there's no prompters, no nothing, he just shoots, like Kenny Rice, for instance, same, you know, and he goes up and down. But the guy is a genius. Like, there's no prompters, no nothing. He just shoots. Like, Kenny Rice, for instance. You know, they have a brain. You can ask him about a horse in the 1989, and he will know the name, and it is. That's it with Mauro. And I told you the story before here with the pro wrestling,

the gig that he now has. And the people are raving about him everywhere. Even the pro wrestlers say, you're the best guy I ever had. And I told AXS TV, once they hired Mauro and George Burnett to do the pro wrestling, New Japan pro wrestling on AXS TV,

I told them, I said, you watch, Mauro's going to work for the WWE. After they hear him doing this, he's going to get a job. Mark my words. Well, he's doing everything now. He's not just doing that. He's doing Showtime boxing.

He did a bunch of glory fights. Oh, this is your banner. This is our landing page. Beautiful. Yeah. Rootin' Ranallo. Rootin' Ranallo. How many episodes have you guys done so far?

Seven tomorrow. Tomorrow's the seventh, and tomorrow is dedicated to Kevin. Kevin Rennelman. We're going to have his wife on Mark Coleman on And we're going to talk about his life And all the funny things I mean, I got such crazy stories with Kevin

I mean, I went to his wedding with my whole family And it was so My family, they're destroyed I mean, they want to go with us to the funeral Everything was You know, it was so sad The next day after the wedding We were all at the pool, people laying there funeral everything was uh uh you know it was so sad the next day after the wedding we we were all at the pool people laying there a little hungover you know and then

suddenly there was a water volleyball net and somebody started to play volley and and you know all these competitive guys there suddenly there's big teams on each side with the kids you know and we're going to town and everybody's water bowling it was such a good time. We had such a great time. And then a thing like this happens. It's really upsetting. It is. It is. He truly was a great guy.

I mean, all my interactions with him where he's always laughing and smiling and hugging people. And I remember I ran into Kevin once. We were at the fights. It was a smaller organization. There was some fights going on in Vegas. And Kevin and I ran into each other. We were at the fights. It was a smaller organization. There was some fights going on in Vegas. And Kevin and I ran into each other at the concession stand. And he gives me this big hug. What's up, man?

How you doing, man? And then other people were coming over. And it's just fans. Fans coming over. Hey, what's up, Kevin? He was like, how you doing, man? Hugging everybody and smiling. I'm like, what a fucking jovial guy.

You know, the first time I fought him, right? We fought and only met one time. The fight before when he beat Maurice Smith to make the picture in the cage. And know, the first time I fought him, right? We fought and only met one time the fight before when he beat Maury Smith to make the picture in the cage and it became the poster later. That was the only time I met him.

So now, I'm in the hotel and I think it's before the weigh-ins and I'm waiting for the elevator. I'm by myself. The elevator door opens

and there he is and he doesn't go out. He needs to be in there. So I get in and the elevator closes. Now we're the two of us in the elevator and I'm looking but I can't see his face you know in the mirror reflection there

and he already has a smirk on his face and I'm smirking I look at him and I go you know uh good luck tomorrow and he goes thank you he says you too and I go yeah thank you and then we look and he says if you keep your feet on the floor, I promise you I won't take you down. And I go, really? Yeah. Okay. Okay. You know, so the door opens. And he gets out. Now, I don't know this crazy

guy, so I don't. If you keep your feet on the floor, so no kicks? No kicks. That's a crazy deal. Yeah, right? What a strange deal. And so in the fight, the fight starts, and you'll see in the fight, once it starts, the first thing he does, he slaps his thigh. Like, kick me. Right. So now I'm confused.

So I go, oh, wait, he's going to think I gave him a low kick. So I'm going to act like I gave him a low kick, but I gave him a front kick to the face. to think I gave him a low kick. So I'm going to act like I gave him a low kick, but I gave him a front kick to the face. So if he wants to time it to take me down, I'm going to give him a square in the face. So I make a front kick and it goes

just in front of it and he's backing up. I just miss him with the front kick to the face. And I see something in his eyes and I, till this day, I couldn't or till this day, till a while after I couldn't figure what it was. But Enes Mighty, of course, thought, I thought we said we're not going to kick.

You know, but he did that slapping thing on his thigh, so it threw me off. I thought, oh, now he wants me to kick him. Okay, so I guess that whole thing was not real. Let's start kicking, you know? But he got me because I kicked, he took me down. And then only that front kick, it missed. He backed up.

It would have been fun. Well, there's always gamesmanship, you know. It's definitely a lot of that. Oh, I was talking to him the whole time. Big John wrote it in his book. Because I was literally, people were booing because laying on the ground, they say, listen, man, I think the fans would like it much better if we stand back up.

I'm trying to negotiate with him to go back on the feet, you know? And he goes, nah, let's stay here. That's hilarious. Yeah, he's a good guy. Yeah, he was a great guy. He was a great guy. You guys were a part of the early days of MMA.

I mean, you are one of the original pioneers of this sport without a doubt. I mean, your fight with Toshiko Saka, for the longest time I had that poster. There was a poster announcing your fight with Toshiko Saka that said, the world's greatest martial artist, Bas Rutten. That's how they announced you. I mean, they were building you up because you were like one of the first really elite strikers to fight in MMA. Yeah, they always said,

they messed up right there on that post, and they forgot the word looking. The world's greatest looking martial artist. I told them that, but they forgot that word. El Guapo. Yeah, it was a good time. Oh, man. When you look back on it, it's got to be pretty amazing.

The time that you came along, from becoming the king of Pancrase, from entering gotta be pretty amazing. The time that you came along, I mean, from becoming the king of pancreas, from entering into the UFC and being the UFC heavyweight champion. Like what, what number was that? UFC? 18 and 20,

20. I became the champ. Wow. Yeah. Almost a 200 now. That's incredible. It's crazy. You know,

that, that, that way it was such a, a great honor. The, the hall of fame when they said that also the, the pioneer section, because the pioneer section is

a section that will only grow so far yeah it will not be so even in 2000 years from now if this keeps going and it comes up whatever it becomes a new olympics but it doesn't matter we were always the ones that started it yeah you know and that's a cool thing it is a cool thing i mean it's it's crazy also that this is the oldest sport in the world, really, fighting. It is. It's the oldest form of competition, but it's also the newest sport because there's no sport from 1993, which is when the UFC first started. There's no sport from then that has exploded. A new sport that came along in 1993 that's exploded, and now in 2016, I mean, you have Ronda Rousey who's on the Ellen Show that we talked about today.

The Conor McGregor-Dos Anjos fight is probably going to get close to 2 million pay-per-view eyes. I mean, that's going to be fucking crazy. You're dealing with this sport that's exploding, just exploding now. So it's so strange that this combination of things, the oldest sport is also the newest sport. And you, from the time you started competing, you caught it right at the beginning of the wave. Yeah, it's really cool. It's an amazing feeling. Many times fans ask,

wouldn't you want to be born 20 years later? I say, no, I'm perfectly happy right now. I mean, also the way I wrapped it up, I didn't lose in my last 22 fights, it's a great way to stop. While I'm ahead, I keep going, see if I great way to stop, you know, while I'm ahead. I keep going and see if I can win one more, you lose. You win one more, you lose.

You know, that's not a great way to wrap up a career. You know, of course, injuries with me played a factor. You know, maybe I got the injuries because they said, hey, it's been going really well. Maybe you've got to stop now. You know, because you're getting older and you don't want to admit that you get older because you're still explosive and you still want to do it.

And you still train with guys. When I came back, I trained with the guys in Vegas. And I go, dude, everybody looked at me. They said, man, you have a second career. This is the craziest thing. I said, yeah, this is crazy, right? I'm feeling so good. You know, I couldn't do a warm up.

I couldn't do 20 minutes warm up when I started because I didn't train for three and a half years. And six weeks later, I'm not taking taking breaks anymore I just go into the next opponents I was I even myself I amazed like man this is great and then all the injuries started coming back you know now I go okay now I got it my knees my tendonitis I tore a hamstring I go pull the rip put the rip out at the place at Dan Henderson's place. You know, they took me down in the midair. I reversed the takedown. But with that, I used so much upper body strength that I popped the rip out.

So now that was 12 days before the fight. I couldn't punch anymore. Can't punch back. The only thing I did was the workout I have, the audio workout in the air. That was the only thing I could do. Wow. Yeah. But you got out of the sport with your faculties 100% intact. the workout I have, the audio workout in the air. It was the only thing I could do. Wow. Yeah.

But you got out of the sport with your faculties 100% intact. That is the ultimate goal of any fighter, to retire, and especially you, because you're now a commentator. You're also an analyst. I mean, you do a fantastic job of breaking down fights. I really enjoy you on Inside MMA, because you have such a knowledgeable perspective, but also you're very honest. You don't play politics. You're very honest about how you feel about a fight coming up,

about where a guy fucked up or where a person's chances lie. And I think it's amazing what you've done. It really is amazing. Thank you. I mean, you're sharp as ever. You know, I'm always trying not to get hit. You know, it didn't really work in my title fight against Kevin. Because he beat the crap out of me for the first four minutes.

But, you know, but after that, it was okay. For the rest, I don't think I ever got hit. You know, I always try to, you know, slip and move. Well, fighting intelligence is the most important aspect of fighting. To use your mind. To use your mind and proper tactics and techniques. That's why I love Mighty Mouse. Yep.

Mighty Mouse is... He's pound for pound the best guy. I agree. I mean, I don't think there's any competition. I think Jon Jones is a phenomenal talent, and he's an amazing fighter. But I think it's almost disrespectful to put him as pound for pound the best

when you look at some of the wars that he's had with Gustafsson. I mean, the war that he had with Daniel Cormier was a great, I mean, Daniel obviously is a great fighter. He was a really good fight, and, you know, John won the fight, of course, clearly. But you look at what Mighty Mouse is doing to the competition, he doesn't even get hit.

Dodson is a fucking freak. I mean, Dodson's a freak, and Dodson just couldn't touch him. Yeah, Dodson, I always said in the beginning, it's like he's glued to the ground. Like, he moves back, he never slips, he never, he's glued to the ground. Yeah. Like he moves back. He never slips. He never... He's got great footwork.

But man, DJ, Matt Hume did a really good job there. Amazing. That's really... That's... Yeah. That's a whole new level. Well, he's got so much going on. His mind, he's very smart.

He's very dedicated. He's got a great control of his ego. He doesn't fight like a fool. He fights very, very technical. His footwork is fantastic. His choices that he makes in a fight, his unpredictable in his movements, he's just, I think

he's the best ever. I really do. He needs a guy to fight like Conor McGregor, though, because he has a big payday one time. Because Rafael dos Anjos is going to make a lot of money this fight. If it's two million, if that's really going to hit it. And you watch. That will probably get up also.

If for some reason McGregor wins this, it's going to be a very hard fight for him. Because I think Dos Anjos. It's a tough fight. Yeah, it's going to be a very tough fight. Because we saw with Mendes. We all know the same thing. Once it goes to the ground, but you still don't know.

You don't know. In that fight, he's so aware of where he is when he fought Mendes. And I'm talking about McGregor he was just laying on the ground you know he didn't even try

to escape it was almost like he said oh he's gonna run out of gas Mendes took that fight though in two weeks that's what I mean just a different animal

but if he could have done that but he knew that that's what I'm saying he knew oh I'm just gonna carry it into the second round and I'm gonna get him you know

didn't even try so I think once against Rafael Dos Anjos, yeah, he's going to need this guy in the guard. That's one thing for sure. Well,

it's a different animal. He'll be there every minute of every round. He'll be there for 25 minutes trying to kill you. Yeah. Dos Anjos is a fucking animal,

man. He's an animal. He's a different animal. Totally different kind of a fight. So I'm so curious as to how that's going to play out.

When you look at how obsessed Conor is with footwork and movement and being smooth and fast and laying punch, like, one of the things that he said when I was interviewing him

after the fight, he's like, no power. See that? No power. Just precision. Just precision. Like,

all those coming at him, he just drops that punch in. I mean, he's not grunting. He's not, he just drops it in and boom, takes him out. The thing is, I see him everywhere. So I hope he's not

going to make the Rousey mistake. Because I said it two weeks before. I think what Rousey's doing is not good. She's in every talk show, every magazine. I go to the supermarket, three magazine covers. I mean, it's insane. Stop doing that. Fight first. Fight first. That makes you big.

Once you lose that, all the other stuff that you're doing right now is going to go as well because they want that champion. So McGregor, I hope that he stays focused and only picks the ones that he needs to do contractually and that's it.

Yeah, I think he's going to be a lot smarter about it. I think Ronda just got overwhelmed with the amount of superstardom that came her way unprecedented him I mean there's never been an athlete

like that before this female ass kicker who's on top of the world I mean she was a new thing and because of that there were so many temptations

and that's why for her it's also was also so hard when she lost she was such a high you know and then boom there you have such a low.

Well, this is the other way. This is how your opponents could have felt, you know? And I think that kind of stuff, you know, on one side it's really good for her because now she understands that. Now she's going to go, oh, okay, now I tasted the other side. You're going to make you a better person.

And you start reminiscing about all the things. Did I, you know, was I, ooh, in that interview I wasn't really, about all the things did I you know was I oh in that interview I wasn't really that wasn't really cool you know those things start backfiring once you start losing

it's with McGregor the same thing although with him there's always it's a funny thing yeah you know with Ronda

it's real like real real but McGregor is real the reason he's so unbelievably good is he in his mind he truly believes there's no way he can lose. Yes.

And to beat a guy like that, Mendes hit him hard. I mean, hard. And he didn't even flinch. There was no zero, no movement. Crazy. It was the craziest thing. We see how Mendes took out Ricardo Lopez. I mean, Ricardo Llamas, rather.

Yeah, I mean, Mendes hits fucking hard. Yeah, it's a hard area. But Conor just eats it. Eats it, on the tip of his jaw also. Yeah. It was not like just a... No, it's crazy. His jaw is incredible.

His mind is incredible. I'm so fascinated by that fight. So fascinated by it. And he says, when one of us goes to war, we all go to war. All the way back when he said that, remember? In Boston it was, I believe, right? Yeah, yeah. That's where he got me.

That's when, right away, I said, okay, this guy. That's why we got to work on Inside MMA. And then the next time he was on Inside MMA, he says, man, I got my monograms. Look, in my suit. How cool is that? He was so happy that he's got his name. Did you ever see the video? Oh, I did some homework on him because we were going to interview him.

And I saw this video that he's in a hotel in in in dublin i believe and there's coconuts did you see that part no okay so he's talking into the camera they're shooting this whatever you know they're following him around and suddenly you hear his wife going no way right and he goes he's talking to the camera he looks to the side says what he said no way and he no way. And he says, one second. So he walks over and she comes with a coconut. And there's a hole in there and they put a little cork thing in there. So he goes, no way. It's like they never saw a coconut. So they pull the thing out, they put the straw in it and go, oh, no way.

You think they did this because I have to fight a Brazilian guy? And that's why they start reminiscing. And that is a knock on the door. So he opens the door and he has the coconut in his hand. It's his trainer. And the trainer sees the coconut. He does, huh? And the trainer goes, no way.

Everybody does the same. It is so funny. And then you see him at the attic. He lives at the attic from his mom and dad with his wife. Wow. On the attic. And he's putting a suit on, and he's trying to figure out that thing in the pocket, you know,

and he goes, I don't know how to do it, but, you know, I think in a few years from now I will. You know, this becomes second nature. And then you see him now, you know. How cool is that? You see him really there and now all the way up there. Good guy. Well, he's making so much money now.

It's unprecedented. I was talking to Dana on the phone today and Dana was saying he's going to be the first guy to make $100 million from that money. Aldo made $5 million from that last fight. Aldo did. $5 million. And Aldo's going back to Brazil with that money where it's worth probably like, who knows how much.

$50 and $20. Yeah, probably something like that. And for a guy like Aldo who loves Brazil and loves to be in Brazil, that money goes a long way in Brazil. Yeah. And he can help a lot of people in Brazil with that money too. Yeah. Whereas if you bring that money to America, I mean, $5 million in Los Angeles.

Yeah. A house. You can get a decent house and then it's gone. But in Brazil, he can hold on to that money for a long time. Well, who knows how much Conor's going to make in this Dos Tanjos fight. And even if he loses, he still defends his featherweight title. Yeah. Which is crazy.

What if he fucking wins? If he fucking wins and then he goes up and fights Robbie Lawler at welterweight? Jesus Christ. Yeah, Wonderboy. It's going to be insane. Wonderboy has the same kind of timing that he has. Wonderboy's different. He's special.

I always say, I always talk about distance. Yesterday in my class, I said again, the most important thing in fighting is keep your nose pointed to your opponent. Because if you say eyes, they think, look in a way, this is eyes on your opponent. It's not. Keep your full vision and distance. If you manage to stay just outside his reach and then you can counter, it's gold. And that's what Wonderboy did also. What Wonderboy has that no one has is karate kicks.

He's got the front leg side kick to the body, the front leg roundhouse kick to the face. When he was fucking Johnny Hendricks up with that, he front leg side kicked him to the body and then front leg roundhouse kicked him in the face. You can see Hendricks was like, whoa. What is this? Yeah. He kicks in a way that no one does. When he wheel kicked Ellenberger,

Ellenberger was saying before that fight, those kicks are a waste of time. He's like, I think it's a waste of energy, all that spinning stuff. Whack! He wheel kicks him. Not really. Twice in the head.

Hope Solo is a big fan. Did you see that? Hope Solo made a video message for Wonderboy. Loves him. How cool is that? He's amazing. His fight with Hendrix was his coming out moment, for Wonderboy. Loves him. How cool is that? He's amazing. His fight with Hendrix was his coming out moment, like where you really got to see him with all of his work that he's done with Weidman

and his takedown defense and his wrestling. And you're seeing that kickboxing that we always knew he had with the 57-0 kickboxing record. Yeah, that's a crazy thing. You're seeing it come together inside the octagon where all those other MMA skills have caught up with his kickboxing. Fuck, man, that guy's good. Yeah, he's something. I was so impressed with that fight with Hendrix. I was so impressed. Yeah, when his father

said it before, his father was talking about the distance. You know, I go, oh, well, let's see. And then when I saw it, the footwork. But he's like a snake. He's like in and out and in and out. Did he wrestle? It has to be, right? I mean, how does he stop those takedowns? First of all, he's done a lot of work with He's like in and out and in and out. Did he wrestle? It has to be, right? I mean, how does he stop those takedowns? First of all, he's done a lot of work with Weidman.

Him and Weidman train together a lot. And also, he's Carlos Machado's son-in-law. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I read that. So, I mean, he's learning jujitsu, I'm sure. I mean, I don't know what belt he has under that, but Jesus Christ, that's a- That's a high level. That's a beautiful thing to be connected to that guy. How-

Did I hear something that he was going to be like family of Weidman? What was the connection? Is he going to live there now? Well, he trains with him a lot. Weidman, of course, is an elite wrestler. You know, NCAA All-American. I mean, one of the best wrestlers right now in MMA. So to have a guy like Weidman training him,

I know they do a lot of training sessions at Hofstra. They go down there and do a lot of work with the wrestling team. But that's what he needed. He needed to be able to confidently stay on his feet and not worry about executing the kicks because you see him earlier in his career, he just didn't, it wasn't loose. It wasn't loose the way he is in a kickboxing fight.

Did you ever see him in the World Combat League, Chuck Norris' organization? Oh, my God. You see him in pure kickboxing. You see what a talent this kid is Wow. It's incredible and I'm gonna watch it No But it's so unusual because it's hands down and loose and in and out like a snake Trying to find a guy who emulates those. I mean Leona Machida is obviously got great karate skill, but Wonder boys on another level yeah

it's like several levels past that the combinations that guy throws like when he hit Hendrix he's tagging him and then as he's sliding out he roundhouse kicks him

in the body and then he slides back in and hits him with another combination and then he slides out and slides back in again and Hendrix is just overwhelmed we never saw anybody

do that to Hendrix yeah I think what's interesting to try with guys like that, I always said this with Machida also, and even with Conor McGregor and when he fought Aldo, and in this case now as well, because their stance is so karate-wide, right? But it's a karate without low kicks.

They're used to here in America. So I said to my buddies, but it's a karate without low kicks. They're used to here in America. You know, so I said to my buddies, imagine that the camp from Aldo said four months ago, listen, you're going to face McGregor. Eventually this is going to happen. Let's switch you to southpaw so we can use your left low kicks because the way they stand, it's going to be very hard for them to get away from low kicks on the outside.

Right, right. Inside is easy because what McGregor does, he lowers himself. And once his knee goes in the same line as his butt, so to say, you don't have any space to land that inside low kick. Right. It's really weird if you angle it up. The angle is gone. But low kicks in that stand. Outside low kick. inside low kick. Right. It's really weird if you angle it up. The angle is gone. But low kicks in that stance. Outside low kick.

Outside low kicks. From the southpaw stance. From the southpaw stance, powerful low kicks to that leg because if you stop the legs, you're going to stop everything. Well, Nikki Holtzkin and Raymond Daniels because Raymond Daniels is a very similar style. Daniels, of course, was a karate champion. He has unbelievable kicking talent.

But Nikki Holtzkin stays glued to him and throws leg kicks. He just chops him down, chops him down, chops him down, and then beats him up. And that's the same thing with Joseph Valtellini. Did the same thing with Raymond Daniels. Chop him down with low kicks, chop him down with low kicks, and then he head kicked him and knocked him out. Yeah, Valtellini is also something, yeah? Wow, yeah.

But he's another guy that he had to relinquish his title because of concussions. And he's going to do the podcast soon. We're talking about him coming on the podcast because he wants to talk about some of the situations he's gone through dealing with concussion syndrome. Wow. Yeah. And he's young. Yeah. Yeah.

Just hard training, hard fights. Yeah. The Nikki Holtzkin fight was hard. He's had some fucking wars. You see, in training, I never. The Nikki Holtzkin fight was hard. He's had some fucking wars. You see, in training, I never get knocked out, thankfully. But I get hit a few times, but not every workout, for sure. Like once every so many times. Because you have good sparring partners.

It always happens when you go somewhere and then one of these, in a boxing club, and suddenly a boxer jumps up, hey, want go a few rounds yep yep and then it goes harder harder harder harder and then becomes a fight yeah well that's one of the smart things that connor does connor keeps all of his his training partners very close you know he's got all these he's got gunner nelson he's got a bunch of different guys that he trains with on a regular basis and he keeps those guys very close to him and everybody's got a common goal. Everybody's trying to help everybody else. Everybody's trying to get themselves healthy so that they're going to be stepping into that cage at 100%.

That's it. Winning combination. See, he doesn't break it. Winning combination. He takes everybody from Ireland. Just come with me. Very smart. Very smart.

All right. I've got to get the fuck out of here, boss. You're the best. I appreciate the fuck out of you. You're awesome. Anytime. Same thing here, brother. Open invitation. With Mauro, we're going to talk about some crazy of here, Boss Rudin. All righty, bro. You're the best. I appreciate the fuck out of you. You're awesome. Anytime. Same thing here, bro. Open invitation.

With Mauro, we're going to talk about some crazy pride stories. People are going to like it. Just let him heal up or get over his illness, and we'll reschedule it soon. I would love, love, love, love to do that. And please check out Rudin and Ranallo. It's available on SoundCloud. It's on iTunes as well. Yes, iTunes.

It's on everything. Yep. And, of course, Inside MMA. It's on AXS TV. Boss Rootin, El Guapo, the great one. Godspeed, party on. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

That was awesome. Bye.