The Joe Rogan Experience - #780 - Sturgill Simpson

Episode Date: April 4, 2016

Sturgill Simpson is an American country music singer-songwriter. His new album "A Sailor's Guide to Earth" comes out on April 15, 2016. http://sturgillsimpson.com

Yes! What's up? Sturgill motherfuckin' Simpson Dude, you been on a ride? This is the last time I talked to you? When was it? Well, last time I talked to you wasn't that long ago, but last time you've been in here... I'm hearing things kind of... Is it something wonky? It was boomy almost.

I feel like it... Is there something wrong with that? Something wrong with the headphones? Might be just me. Might it be the weed? Is that fucking weed? Did it just change? Yeah, it sounds better. Thank you.

What'd you do, Jamie? Put some fucking effects on that, bitch? He didn't touch anything. He's just asking. Is it better? So, yeah, I mean, you're blowing the fuck up, dude. I have to get this out of the way before we even start talking. It's fascinating to watch.

Why is that? Well, because, well, it's always fascinating to watch someone who you think is very talented get recognized. And I think you're very talented. So then, and then becoming friends with you, it's interesting, you know, to talk to you and to see what it's like. See me process it all in real time. Probably got some interesting insight, I would imagine. Yeah, I guess so.

For me, it was a slow one. It was a slow burn. Took a long time and a lot of different shows until it started getting really weird. It was pretty manageable. News radio, how long were you out here before that happened? I came out here for a show right before that. I was on another show called Hardball. There was this baseball show.

So that was maybe like six months before news radio. So I wasn't out here very long. I came out here specifically for that Hardball show. And the things just sort of of opportunities turn into other things yeah like you know it ebbs and flows and comes and goes but uh the news radio fame was like non-existent like nobody ever recognized me ever will but you're getting recognized now not too much man i mean in specific towns where we do better yeah but it's most you know% of the time people are really cool. Yeah. Isn't that the fact?

Yeah. That's really what's up, 99% of the time people are really cool. And even the 1% are still cool. It's just it lasts a little too long. I don't know. It's the outliers, you know, the extreme cases that aren't, that aren't the 1% of the 1% that could be issues. It's not even that. In the grand scheme of things, I don't feel like I've really blown up that big.

You know what I mean? I feel like I've clawed my way to the beginning, as it were. That's a good way to look at it. Well, I mean, what's the beginning? What's the top? I the you know what's the what's the top i don't i don't know exactly what i do know is that there's a lot of people that like will text me dude have you heard of sturgill simpson holy shit you know like now yeah even now man it's uh although i guess transitionally it's been in the last couple of years, three years, but I've been doing this my whole life to various levels of thanklessness. But yeah, a lot of years in honky tonks and just dive bars where you were background noise.

So now that I'm older, I think that's been the best part of it is I'm clear and focused enough and I have enough responsibilities in my life to where I'm not taking it for granted. Does that make sense? 100%. Trying to like really use it as the opportunity that it is to do something hopefully bigger than just myself. Well, being a famous singer, you know, you affect people in a singer and a songwriter. You affect people in a singer and a songwriter you you affect people in a very strange way you know there's like a an intense emotion that's um that's connected to a song that like really moves you you know there's this intense connection and so um it's

i think for someone like you like it's great that you've got all this life experience. I think that helps so much, man. I think if you're a fucking Justin Bieber type character, boy, you're almost guaranteed to be fucked. Like that kind of scrutiny, I don't. How old was he when that all started? He was a baby. I mean, I know who he is, but I couldn't tell you a single song. Not a single one. But yet I know who he is.

Why is that? Well, he's famous as fuck. He's famous as fuck but yeah the poor guy i mean i don't want to well yeah the poor guy nobody could nobody it's easy to judge and sit back and be like oh he's such a fuck up like the kid has a very rare and unique perspective on the life experience yeah look that kid is doing a splendid job a splendid he's fucking up just enough yeah fucking up a little bit but you know he's fine in comparison to what a normal person would be with that kind of

insane breach like that they're just what what it must be like for him to just try to go through a group of girls. He gets attacked like dogs. They will fight for him. They'll claw at him. What the fuck, man? He's only like 19 or something, right? Is he 19? That's insane.

That's insane. It's got to be so hard to keep your shit together and to have a balanced perspective because his only perspective is one of fame so you talking about the honky tonks and yeah you know when you were here last time you talked about crazy jobs you had like you worked on a train right yeah yeah i mean think about that kind of shit go from that that kind of shit to where you are now you have a earned perspective an earned perspective whereas it's still hard to feel like when you say earned,

like my life's pretty cool now, man. Like I get to go out and make art for a living and support my family and play music. Yeah, no, it's awesome. It's kind of dope. For sure. Even that said, as long as it took to get here and even the last three years, like we toured our asses off, man.

Going in circles to kind of build it organically. And I feel really proud about that because no matter what happens up or down, I can feel like I accomplished something with merit. Yeah. But it... Well, it's a beautiful time. It's a beautiful time for artists, you for artists you know we're definitely in a moment yeah right for sure it seems like a moment with music a moment with it's definitely a moment with stand-up comedy we all talk about it it's like the best time ever for stand-up i think country

i'm still getting over brian holtzman who's the guy that did the last set that night. Dude, that fucking, I was traumatized. That was an experience, man. I can't even tell you. Because you guys, you motherfuckers didn't tell me what was coming. We just like, oh, you gotta go see this guy's set. I'm sitting there thinking like, I'm watching this guy bomb harder than anything I've ever seen. He's like telling people in the audience to just start fucking. And he's like, I couldn't take my eyes off of it

it was amazing it was awesome and then after the set he's like yeah you know holy shit that was all just genius

yeah he's genius Brian Holtzman's genius 100% and he people were running out of the room man like literally this takes too long

they ran out of the room to get away from this thing happening it's a vile expression of toxic masculinity on stage Literally, this takes too long. They ran out of the room to get away from this thing happening. It's a vile expression of toxic masculinity on stage. Yeah, Brian does the kinesin spot, which is the last spot of the night. So the last guy on the comedy store.

Most spots at the comedy store. The nightcap. Yeah. Last spot at the comedy store. It just goes on from, I guess he gets on probably somewhere around 1230, maybe one-ish, and then he might go until two. So he's got a long stretch. He does whatever he wants.

Wow. That's why it's the Kinnison spot. How long has he been in that spot? Well, he's the perfect guy for that spot, and he does it on and off. He's been there at the store as long as I have. He's been there at the store since 94. I met him in 94. Is it always in that room? No, he does

the little room too. That's where I first met him. When I first met him, he was like this promising up-and-coming guy that would go on in the smaller room. He was like one of the hot up-and-coming guys, but he always kept a real job. In my opinion, he's one of the best comics in the world.

He just doesn't get a chance to show it to people. We've tried to talk about what would be the best way to let people know. I think because he's one of the best comics in the world he just doesn't get a chance to show it to people right we've tried to talk about like what would be the best way to let people know and I think because he changes his stuff so much I think just putting cameras on him every night filming this these kinnison spots that he does every Friday and Saturday night it's it's I tell everybody if you want to see some comedy tough one because to make people aware, to let them know, you kind of have to almost in a way sort of have to give away what makes it what it was. I don't know, man.

It doesn't bother me. I know. I know and I think it's fucking genius. I know he's a great guy. But I mean, we're kind of beating around the bush here. He says obviously ridiculously offensive things that he doesn't really mean. Oh, my God. I fucking have always loved that style of comedy, you know?

And he's, in my opinion, like one of the best ever at it. He's a monster. Just people don't know for whatever. But they don't know because he never left. Right. He stayed at the store, and that's his spot. He stayed in L.A., and he always kept a job. He always had a job. He was a meter man at one point. He's had spot. He stayed in LA and he always kept a job. He always had a job.

He was a meter man at one point. He's had a bunch of jobs like that. Kind of a Bukowski type guy. Exactly. But, you know,

you got to do it all for him. Like, someone's got to come along and do it all for him. Oh, really? Yeah, let's just take these off. Let's be casual, bro.

Let's be kissy. But, yeah, man. I can't wear them in the studio either, man. Really? They bug you? They fuck with me. It's just not, let's be kissy but uh yeah man I can't wear them in the studio either man really? they bug you? they fuck with me

it's just not it's not a natural you're responding to what you hear in your ears as opposed to you know

it's good for some people because some people don't realize how goofy it sounds when everybody talks over everybody like if you have three people

and they don't have the ear things on that's what we were talking about before you came in about the fight podcast it could be a nightmare yeah realize how goofy it sounds when everybody talks over everybody i'll give you three people yeah and they don't have the ear things that's what we were talking about before you came about the yeah so with the fight podcast we do four people and we made it mandatory like gotta wear earphones because we're drunk and stoned and we're talking over each other people are chewing into the mic they don't know how bad it sounds people eating pickles potato chips and pickles into the fucking microphone and it's just like oh my god people i would get these screaming texts from people stop chewing into the fucking microphones so we had to we had to institute the headphones policy but for uh a gentle conversationalist like yourself it's very easy put those aside are you um like when you were touring like all those three years when you were going crazy and

and touring like a maniac have you uh settled that down to more manageable sort of a schedule yeah it uh it would have been fine otherwise i mean i've always lived out of a bag really you know what i mean and wanted to be moving all the time so like in that regard it's kind of ideal but it's just the timing was a little bittersweet right my son was born about a month after the last record came out so i was home for that and then basically three three or four days after he's born I had to go to Europe for some shows and then press started rolling in and word of mouth and record just started selling dude it's like a movie and my way you know my wife is very supportive and I wouldn't have moved to

Nashville in the first place to do anything without her telling me you can do this. I'd probably still be working at the railroad. So when it all kind of came about, she basically said, we didn't come here and you do everything up until this point to not be able to go because you have to now. You have to tour. Right. So I did.

tour right um so i did and other you know i think missing out what was going on at home and carrying some sense of guilt maybe for that because even though like i'm out here my dreams are coming true it's providing for my family but when we come home after five or six weeks and i've got a week at home before leaving again i'm just kind of see i was seeing what i was missing in incremental stages you know and i think it took a toll on me uh emotionally in a way that i wouldn't have anticipated so that's kind of where this record came from i don't go on that kind of tour but when i go away um just for a few days just for four or five days yeah it bumps me out you know when you come back home this rush of love you know that's a good way to put it it's what it's like it's like this when you when i come home like i just got back from the road

i was in boston this weekend i come home on sunday and when your kids run up to you and jump in your arms and you're carrying them and talking to them you know it's like it's very hard to describe for anybody that like doesn't have any children or doesn't have close friends with children. It's very hard to describe. It's a fucking game changer. It's a game changer. It changes who you are. Instantly. Your perspective on the world is so different. And I don't think it's mandatory. I think this is important to say because, man, it used to bum me the fuck out when people who were fathers or mothers would treat you like you were doing something wrong because you didn't have kids. Or like there was something wrong with you if you didn't have kids. That's bullshit.

Or they would tell you that you don't even know about life until you have kids or that. Yeah, it's a perspective enhancer. But guess what? A lot of shit is a perspective enhancer. You don't even know about life until you have kids or that, you know, yeah, it's a perspective enhancer, but guess what? A lot of shit's a perspective enhancer. Like you don't have to do it. But for me, cause I just hate when people tell people, you know,

that it's like this mandatory aspect of life. I think you could absolutely have a fulfilled life and never procreate. A lot of people shouldn't be parents, man. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Almost every girl I ever dated.

Stay out of the business. That's not true. But they changed too, man. I have a buddy of mine. His ex-girlfriend was crazy. Just off the charts crazy. Just wild. Girl was out of her mind.

Just drugs and sex and chaos. She had a kid. Bam! Snapped out of it. Eats healthy sex and chaos she had a kid bam snapped out of it eats healthy organic she's super mom wasn't about her anymore it also is about a fresh chance to do something correct and raise a child with love and and not create someone like yourself it's a it's this weird eye-opening thing i think for a lot of people when they realize where all their anger comes from, where all their – oh, it comes from not being raised correctly. That's a giant part of most people's lives is what kind of an interaction you have with the people that love you. And if you get programmed like real early on that love means hitting and screaming and chaos and yelling and fighting.

and screaming and chaos and yelling and fighting. Dude, when I was a kid, man, I used to look about marriage like somebody wanted to serve me plates of shit for the rest of my life. Like, what? Like, why would you do that? Because what I grew up with was just chaos. I grew up with people yelling at each other and hitting each other and, ah, fuck this. And you don't realize, I think, until you have a little baby that you're watching learn

and develop and you're sort of data crunching all this shit all these events in this child's life and you're experiencing all this with them and the way you're experiencing with them is this intense bond of of love but of also of guidance so you have to guide this little person and so while i'm doing that and just little moments and events in my daughter's lives, little conversations that we have that make me sort of process how they view the world and how they think about things that has made me just so much more aware of where a lot of my own weird personality quirks have come from.

Well, you look, it's like looking into your own eyes. Yeah. So you're seeing, you know, everything's instantly recognizable. But yeah, that's a good way. What did you say? You said seeing their perspective, you know?

Yeah. But they're just mirroring whatever you're doing. Yeah, because they don't hide things. No. You know, they don't hide emotions. They don't hide thoughts. And if you can open up lines of communication with them really young and get them constantly used to talking about feelings and about thoughts and about why do you get those feelings. They'll get jealous of each other.

Why does she get a new toy? Why do you care if she has a new toy? Why does that bother you if somebody else has something good? And you see their little brain going, oh, yeah. Because there's this, like, animal fucking instinct that makes you want to get upset about something. And you're like, what? Her friend gave her a toy. Where's my shit?

You know, and you got to, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You were happy until you found out that something good happened to someone you love? Right. That doesn't make any sense now, does it? And you're like, oh, yeah. You can see the little fucking tiny tiny brain spinning he's just starting to talk so we'll get there but now it's like the trip we really like playing drums together so that's probably the that's awesome when he's talking to you is it freak

you out it's happening right now yeah i mean you know he gosh it was there for a while there was this little period was like 10 words every day and you don't even know they're picking them up until they say them and they'll look you know look at something and say it and you you know you we haven't had this lesson yet and it's like wow man or to express emotions and and uh or even to see them at such a young age understanding how to manipulate situations. You know what I mean? That's really interesting social dynamic. You're watching like a primitive game of chess.

A little primitive child chess. My daughter was three and we were skiing and she was packing her stuff up. And she didn't have her helmet or suitcase. So she had her suitcase closed. And then my wife goes hey um you forgot your your helmet and she goes shit she was three when a three-year-old goes shit like a nice long one knew just how to say it yeah i had to bite my hand to keep from laughing i mean i try to encourage like stuff that's funny as much as possible but you can't encourage them swearing because they don't they don't have the self-control to like shut it off when they go to school you know and you don't want to be the parents that

teach the kids that's wearing around that but it is fine it really is the fuck are we doing this restricting the use of words to children it's like why i'm about over the pc thing oh my god it's driving me fucking bananas but this one is just fucking crazy so it's just so crazy why swears just seems so strange like doesn't seem to be of an issue much anywhere else in the world you go. Well, for adults in business, I kind of understand not using them. Formalities. Yeah.

For formalities. I mean, if you want to know something respectable. It is a rather lazy form of linguistics, though. Sure. But, hey, it feels good. Well, it can be lazy, but it's like everything else. I think it's stress-related, honestly, man. Swearing?

I think it comes from anxieties and stress-induced variables. I remember in the Navy, it's fuck this, fuck that, fuck every other word. And when I worked at the railroads, it was salty language out there. I mean, it's because you're under this highly efficient expectation all the time hmm and there's all these creative personalities and ideas bouncing off each other these little confined spaces and everybody's just went on tighter than a banjo string it could be used a gang of ways though right it can also use as like a pause sometimes people use use it in place of a meter tool well you know you know sometimes you know, sometimes people don't know what they're going to say next

and they want to say, uh, but instead they replace it with fuck. Like a fucking, fucking guy with his, his fucking, I'm fucking sitting there, right? I'm fucking talking to this, you know, like that kind of, that's where it gets real lazy. That's what, that's like, most people don't even realize like the weird tics they have. I didn't realize how many times I'd say you know or you know what I mean or or like the word like like like is a Fucking dangerous one because you could be talking to someone and not pick it up But then once you do pick it up you saw you here. It's all you hear all you hear

People have that little weird roadblock They have a blindside. They didn't see it a blind spot, and they just say like all the time. Like. It's terrifying because it might be me. I mean, definitely have been. Tommy, Sigura's got it bad. Sigura's got it bad. He's got it bad.

He's a like-a-holic. He loves it. He hams it up a little bit, but like on that video he did in Cleveland this weekend. Did you see that? I didn't see that. That's really funny. Was it him and Hannibal Buress? No, no, no.

He was on News... Oh, he was playing that character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did see that. Our friend Tom Segura was in this morning show. You ever do those? Do you have to do those morning shows? No, I don't.

I don't do those. Good for you. My career will suffer to some degree because of it, but, man, I would never ask anyone to deal with me in a situation like that. So it's best just to know what you are and accept it. Do you get a hard time for not wanting to do certain kinds of press? Do they give you a hard time? Not really. I mean, I think most of the people that I've been working with for a while now they know who they're dealing with um and i don't i don't mind doing the press honestly it's just it's uh

at a certain point it becomes i think counterproductive or even destructive because you it's you i don't know you end up repeating things a lot yes to the point that you're asked the same question so many times that without even realizing you find yourself giving verbatim answers right that's when you know it's time to stop talking about it because it's uh and the more like like i said the more i feel like i talk about it you're sort of denying people they're their better chance to interpret it in a way that's going to make it mean even more to them. And they'll hear it in a way that maybe I didn't even mean it. Your memories become weird to you when you talk about them all the time, too.

When you talk about certain things and you repeat yourself over and over again. It almost becomes a script to you. Like the memories of those things get weird. I realized, you know, like I said, I've been playing music forever, but all this other stuff was very sudden transition. But being a naturally skeptical person and self-aware, like you get in these situations and I sort of realized there's a certain theatric to it all. You know what I mean? And then once you get past the reality of that and then you learn enough about it to know that you can sit and talk for three hours literally,

but it's not a representation of what you talked about. You can talk about everything under the sun and they might take one little sentence that had nothing to do with anything and an editor decides that that should be the title of the article that is now written from some preconceived stance that you did. You were unaware of during the conversation. You know what I mean?

It's like, I don't know. The written word is especially problematic. You can't print context. You can't print context and it's literally someone's interpretation. It's art that's interpreting an individual. So if someone writes a story about you, it's really art because it's their own way of flavoring this whole interaction. They try to do it with colorful descriptives and they try to use bold adjectives and try to figure out a way to paint it in the most entertaining way as well as get some point across. So I think sometimes a lot of guys-

They're also just trying to get you to click on their website. Yep. That's true. But the way to do that is with a good entertainment. So it doesn't necessarily have to be an actual factual representation of who you are. If someone writes a story about you, what's almost more important is this art of getting something salacious, this art of writing something that that makes you say oh this guy's wild or this guy's that you know it has to be like this one thing you know Sturgill Simpson first

fucked a man when he was 14 you know you know what I mean like something like first sentence like hey Jesus what the where the fuck is this article going you know not really but he would have you believe that you know you know you know i mean like it starts man i i i didn't realize it until it's when you meet people on the street and you realize they have these crazy misinformed ideas about who you are and what you represent and like you know what you are i mean yeah you know that was that was a good lesson learned yeah that's a good lesson for anybody. I'm actually just kind of a dork. What's that?

It's really just like a dork. But you're like this outlaw, tough guy, like, you know, fucking dirt to dirt. That's what they think? I don't know. Some of them. Some of them probably do. People are always looking for that, though, right? I think so.

Are they always looking for the outlaw country guy? It seems to be the case. Yeah, like, a shooter had a song making fun of all these, like, fake outlaws. I think his dad had a song making fun of all that shit, too. His dad did. Well, his dad was the real thing. Yeah. You know, it's got to be hard to look at some fake outlaws with designer scratches in their jeans like they got attacked by a fucking leopard or some shit.

I mean, that looks so stupid. And when your dad is fucking Waylon Jennings, that's got to be even more offensive. I can't imagine, man. You know, when they see these guys with a hat that they just got 15 minutes before they went on stage, someone handed it to them and placed it perfectly. And someone's doing their hair and checking to make sure everything's good, and then they send them out there to be an outlaw. Sober, un-Adderall, probably beta blockers. It's something that I couldn't possibly describe to you how little I pay attention to it.

Yeah. To country or to music in general? Country, but even anymore, I don't really listen to much going on. Are you buddies with that guy, Jason? Isbell? Isbell, yeah. That's the right way to say it? Yeah.

Dude, I just got into him a couple weeks ago. Genius. Fantastic. I listened to his most recent album the entire time I was in Mexico. I was in Mexico for like a week. I just listened to him the entire time. Yeah, we used Jason to play some shows together. He's a good dude, man.

You should have him on the podcast. I would love to. Interesting guy. Really smart dude. Great writer. Oh, yeah. He's kind of the guy. oh my god I mean the lyrics incredible intense just so really well structured too that's the other thing about this job is you meet people

that you hit it off with and but you never hang out because you're never at home so we've been trying for like two years to take our wives to dinner man but like it's one or the other you either on tour or somebody's back or I know exactly what it's like. I know exactly what it's like. Comedians, we work together a lot. That's how we do it. We also work together at the store. That's why the store is like a great base.

It's like home base. So everybody goes to the store. So we meet each other in the store during the weeknights. And then a lot of times in the weekends, we'll work together. Like if we do big theater shows especially. How many nights a week do you think you're down there? The store?

Yeah. At least two. Always at least two. Just working. Yeah, it depends on how many nights I'm in town, you know. But it's convenient for me because my spots are always after 10. So my kids are already asleep. So I can jet out after I put them to bed.

They go to bed at like eight so i'm gone you know it's perfect and it's also like for for anybody who does the road a lot it's a nice wake-up call you know like you just see these animals going up in there you know chris rock show up working on his oscar speech he showed up that saturday night that's right yeah that's right that's right chapelle shows up all the time louis shows up all the time bill burr's there all the time i mean just all the assassins popping up and testing out new stuff or keeping their chops up keeping the chops up testing out new stuff all the above just you're just working you know it's like they're everyone's act is sort of like a work in progress you know and. And when you're close to them, you watch it for them.

Like Joey Diaz, who I think is the funniest guy of all time. He's the funniest guy ever. I never laughed harder than watching him. But I watch his bits. I watch them develop because I'm working with him all the time. That's some of the more interesting things about being friends with a lot of comedians is watching all the different styles of creation, how they do it how they piece it together it's it was just like songwriting there's like there's no right way to do it yeah one way but man that i tell you what

just that i won't you know i'm just now getting to spend any time out here uh but i there's something about that world just a couple times i've gone and spent time in that place. It's, it's a totally different hedge headspace than anything I'm used to or accustomed to. And you can see there's definitely a sense of community. Oh yeah. A palpable underlying darkness. Oh yeah. To it all. Uh, but I think what I like the most about it is there's no gray area, you know, for all in all, everybody seems to be pretty black and white and like real as fuck you know you can get away with some ridiculous shit on that stage too

because it's just the way it's always been like like holtzman like without giving any of his set away right some of the things that he was saying you're like jesus fucking christ oh dude i was i mean i know you're enjoying that, because I was sitting there just like, holy shit. He was particularly on fire that night, too, like the screaming at people. So what happens when somebody gets up and just jumps on the stage and goes for him? That's happened before.

I mean, the dude with his girlfriend, I was just like, what is happening right now? Holy shit, man. That was intense. But the people were laughing,? Holy shit, man. That was intense. But the people were laughing. But people have attacked him. Really? Yeah.

Martin Lawrence's bodyguard knocked him out. Does that go south? I mean, then what? I wasn't there. I missed the festivities. But from what I understand, Martin Lawrence was in the audience. And him and Holtzman were going back and forth. And Holtzman went over to the table to point out that it was actually Martin Lawrence that he was there was he was being heckled by Martin's bodyguard gets

up punched some in the head knocks him out that was one time I heard but there was some other stuff too damn one time he took a fucking an ashtray and Ari was talking about this the other day. The comedy store, especially like in the early days, had these thick fucking glass ashtrays, old school bar ashtrays. I'm sure many people got murdered with one of those fucking things. Well, Holtzman was talking about Charlie's Angels and how angry he was that anybody really fucking believes a woman could kick all those men's asses.

I take her and he grabs an ashtray and I'll fucking crush her. And he throws the ashtray at the table and shatters his fucking ashtray. Holy fuck. Yeah, it's like, whoa. He blew an ashtray up in the room. I mean, glasses flying all over the fucking place. I mean, he really threw this ashtray down on this table and shattered it. It was a small crowd, but someone easily could have got hit with a hunk of glass.

That glass is probably still on that ground. Shards, decades later. He definitely could probably find the shards. Damn, dude. But he's going for it, you know what I mean? It's one of those things we were talking about like there's there's a when you're writing a song i guess it's probably similar to where you're creating this narrative you you're you're being a separate person maybe than you are in real life and you're creating it and you're you're seeing it from that

person's perspective well a guy like holtzman is doing that on stage he's doing something similar but because it's just talking people don't accept it as not really his opinion right you know they think that he's just a fucking asshole and a misogynist and this and that and it's not just like he's a character in a movie that's playing an asshole that's happened to be hilarious which we accept with no reservation it's weird right it's uh i don't know i was just enamored like after the fact and then looking back on what I'd just seen, how when he's in the moment of playing the frustrated, you know, like, this is such, you know,

like, what's the fucking, what's the point? Right. But he was just so in that, it has to make me feel like a big part of it's coming from a very real place, too, you know? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's just, I mean, he's not carrying that around with him all the time but that's definitely coming from a real

place he has this bit about hillary i can't give it away cathartic in a way yeah for sure definitely but he's like he's a very smart guy obviously he's legitimately frustrated at the world around him you know who isn't yeah but if you're not then you're not paying attention i mean it's that simple in this day and age look you what we all should try to do and i i know you agree is try to be as harmonious as you can in your life in your personal life in your friendships harmonious as you can the problem today is that in this day and age, we have access to all the stories. All the stories. Everywhere.

There's too many of us. That's too much data to crunch. You're only going to get the shitty ones. Because the shitty ones are the ones you're going to hear about. Because those are the ones, you know, ISIS cuts baby's head off. Holy shit. You know, that shit doesn't scare me, man. I don't worry about ISIS and things like that.

I worry more about... Natural disasters? Well, that's weird you should say that whenever we talk when yeah i get hung up on fault lines and uh you know the the inevitable but my wife makes fun of me about it no i mean i guess i should be worried about isis but i'm i mean hell these like neo-Nazi bent perspective Zionist groups scare me more than ISIS. The homegrown ones? Yeah, the ones actually here in our country. Like the Oregon guys? I don't want to.

Man, I watched about two minutes of that. I was like, I can't even look at this. We still never found out who called them Yal-Kaida. We never figured it out. We believe someone on this show named them Yal-Kaida. called them Yalkaida. We never figured it out. We believe someone on this show named them Yalkaida. Yalkaida. It was either that or it was a comic that we named them Yalkaida. Yeah, I Googled it.

In fact, I saw it a lot of times on Google, so I don't know where it started. It might not have even started there then. The person who said it might have heard it first. Either way, what a fucking great name, Yalkaida. I fucking love that name. I mean, I honestly did step away. What ended up happening with all that? One guy got shot and killed.

Okay. And then there was some guys turned themselves in, and there was a standoff for a long period of time. It had to do with grazing cattle on public land. BDM, what do they call it? Mm-hmm. Department of Land Management. DLM? Is it DLM land? Is call it? Department of Land Management, DLM.

Is it DLM land? Is that it? Bureau of Land Management, BLM? Yeah, that's it. There's a mountain range in Utah that was still BLM land. A lot of the hunters were, there was like a 100-year ban on, is it Okra, I think, Okra Mountain Range

on the other side of the valley. And they were getting ready to open it back up after 100 years. Well, most people don't have this in their country. Most countries don't have giant swaths of public land that you can hunt and fish on. That was all because of Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt faced so much pressure

to not do that and to give in to that that he wound up leaving was he a republican or democrat i feel like the democrats used to be the more uh conservative ones back in the day and then the republicans were the more open-minded and liberal then somewhere along the the polar axis has shifted at least that's what i've written read rather anyway teddy roosevelt he deemed all this land all over the country as public land and you you could never do anything with it you can't you can't fucking put cities in it you can't do shit with it this is just public land and this is land owned by the people of the united states and there's been a lot of like really shady politicians that have looked at our debt because, you know, the United States has

massive debt. And they'd said, look, this is one way we can get rid of this debt. We can sell some of our public land. I think Paul Ryan, that guy, that's one of the presidential guys, I think he bowed out of the presidential election, but he was one of the guys that was it was one of his proposals and people the the like outdoors people people that hike and hunt and fish they were going fucking crazy like you can't do this like you can't but but you look at it on cnn you look at it's like one of the most important things about what makes this country amazing is some of our natural resources our parks there's nothing else like it on the planet yeah yosemite i mean go to go to yosemite if you don't think there's there's some majesty in places in the world like almost like a magic land you look at those mountains and you

see a grizzly bear and you see a fucking herd of bison you're like holy shit like this what is this this is a wild park you can go through this park and you might get eaten by a grizzly Go ahead. Good luck I mean you're in the world where people are fucking coddled and pampered and every edge is covered by a Thick chunk of nerf shig is real dude You could walk through Yellowstone and two people over the last like five years have been killed by bears It happens more than you think yeah, my friend was there he heard wolves howl he said it was the craziest shit he said we're in yosemite and you hear you hear it

i was like it's like a coyote he's like no no it's a fucking wolf man it's different it'd be bad bad bad way to go speaking of roosevelt and yellowstone have you ever been to that big ranger station that i think he's the one that had it built out there but it's this like 20 story high cabin there's all these weird wooden you can go no i've heard of it but i've never been amazing just like really old building it's really old i mean over 100 years old what they you know all the forest rangers i think i hope i'm getting that right lived in it but it's pretty much like the coolest tree house you'll ever see anywhere on the planet. But it's a big hunting lodge. Wow.

You should check it out if you're ever out there. Imagine those days, man, when they only, you know, like we have a pretty clear view from all the data we've taken in, all the photographs and video and all the people's accounts, we have a clear view of what this country's like. At this point, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we know about the drive to Vegas from L.A. We know about going up the coast to San Francisco. You know what I'm saying?

But in the Teddy Roosevelt days, they were still like 50 years into pictures. Undaunted courage, man. Right? Their first pictures were in the late 1800s, right? So the Teddy Roosevelt age, I mean, this motherfucker was, they barely knew anything. No. The fuck did they, what year was Roosevelt president? Early 1900s, 1909.

So think about that. They'd only had pictures for like, what, 50 or 60 years? How many pictures of Yellowstone or of the Colorado Rockies or all the different types of wildlife you're going to run into? How about a wolverine? You got a photo of a wolverine yet? And I just stumbled across that fucking thing for the first time. Going, Jesus, what is that?

Fuck, man. I was watching this video the other day with this dude who was driving his fucking car he watched a wolf and a mountain lion fighting to the death they were duking it out right in front of him he stopped his car and he said they were so close that he could reach out and touch the wolf. And so he's sitting there in his car while this wolf and this mountain lion are fucking engaged in mortal combat. I'm cool. I'm good, man. But what a crazy trip that would be to see that. And, you know, if you were in the Teddy Roosevelt days.

If I knew they weren't coming through the windshield. Yeah. I'd go see that. But I mean, I'm getting out of the car. I don't know. Yeah. We drive through Yellowstone every time. It never fails. If there is a grizzly sighting,

you get there and there's like 20 carloads of people standing out on the street with their cameras out and a ranger standing there saying, please get back in your car. You were, you know, you're entering the food chain. The guy was so sardonic about it. I was just like, this is amazing.

This is it right here. This is the video sardonic about it. I was just like, this is amazing. This is it right here. This is the video. This is the wolf, and look, the mountain lion has the wolf by the neck. Wow, the mountain lion jacked him. That is crazy. Look at the mountain lion winning. I think I'd rather get eaten by a great white shark than taken out by a cougar man because it's going to play with you like a ball of yarn.

Back it up, Jamie, because before that, you actually see them duking it out before the mountain lion wins my uh a friend of mine is a guide he's a hunting guide in colorado look at this battle the mountain lion just clamps him down on his neck that wolf's trying but it ain't working out dude the mountain lion ain't letting go. Fuck. Did you see that video of the panther? The lady caught on video running by her. Yeah, the panther ran by him. Holy shit, that was scary.

Ran by her, yeah. It's in Florida. I was hiking on Antelope Island one time, just north of Utah, and they have this big buffalo reserve out there. It's like a public peak. Probably six thousand, you know, day hike. But there's all these free-ranging buffalo everywhere on the island you know wow and so we're coming back down the hill me and my buddy and as we're hiking down

the trail you know about 300 yards down i can see there's a couple buffalo right on right on the trail on the footpath and we're like that's all right they'll they'll be moved on by the time we get there and we come down the hill come around this big boulder and sure shit they're still standing there man and i you know i my uncle had a farm he had cows i've never been around a damn buffalo i don't know the difference in uh so i'm like well they'll move it's just a big ass cow you know so we just keep walking towards them my buddy he jumps up on a rock and he's just laughing at me like a dumbass because i'm standing there at this point, and this thing's 15 feet in front of me. Oh, my God.

And it was grazing sideways with his hip towards me, and he's just eating. And finally, he looks up and turns his head and looked at me, man, and I realized, holy shit. I mean, it's like the size of a Volkswagen Beetle, man. Oh, my God. And he's just looking at me, and I i'm thinking this is some dumb shit right here like what am i doing you know what do i do and uh that's a different buffalo buddy that's a water buffalo it's an asian animal old school there you go top left this is a bison yeah yeah that's

so water he just turns and looks at me and i'm like oh i'm so fucked and uh i didn't know what else to do size of that thing took one more step forward oh you so fucked. And I didn't know what else to do. Look at the size of that thing. Took one more step forward. You did? Towards him? Yeah. I didn't know what else to do, man, because he's looking right at me. I didn't know.

He's going to charge me. I'm either running or what. So I took one more step. And he just kind of like, often, him and his buddy ran. But when he started running, man, the whole ground shook. And I remember standing there looking at my friend thinking like, that could have been really bad. Oh, yeah. You could be dead.

No Sturgill Simpson. But it's open to the public. You can hike out there all the time. There's buffalo everywhere. Yeah. How's that a winning combination? I like it. I do.

I like it way better than I like the idea of a zoo. Enter nature at your own risk. I think you should enter nature at your own risk, and I think nature should be natural. So you're a big bow hunter, right? Yeah. Okay, so we started to talk about this at dinner, but moose are mean as shit. Yeah. You know, if you shoot an arrow in an elk's ass and it doesn't kill it, you just piss it off,

and now you're 40 yards away from this thing. What do you do? Well, most importantly, you've got to practice, especially now you're 40 yards away from this thing what do you do well most importantly you gotta practice like before especially if you're gonna shoot an arrow you practice every day really every day every day i go somewhere and i shoot arrows something you should probably take seriously you gotta take it so it's not like a rifle thing no see a rifle thing is it's all just about understanding how to use a scope and understanding trigger discipline. You got to understand how to squeeze a trigger and not pull it. But archery involves a lot of weird hand-eye coordination and balance. There's so many different

factors going on. There's like a little site that you have and you have to balance that site out where the bubble is in the center, you know, the level bubble. You've got to make sure you're not torquing your bow left or right. You've got to make sure that the peep sight, the little string hole that you're looking through, lines up and it clips perfectly your housing. You have to make sure that your hand is completely steady. You've got to make sure you don't flinch at all when you release the arrow.

There's so much going on. Any micro movement can add up to several feet left or right when it gets down past like 40 and 50 yards. All the while trying to control your intended target on this moving creature. Yeah, moving creature. And you have to be good enough to make an ethical shot. Right. You have to be good enough to make an ethical shot. Right. You have to be good enough to, you know. And it's not easy, man.

It's not fucking easy. So that's the most important thing. It's like there's a lot of guys that shouldn't be doing it because they're doing it and they make this. I was going to say all that said, when shit goes wrong, what do you do? Well, you have to have a plan. If you shoot an animal and it charges out, you've got to have a tree near you or something where you can get behind the tree.

But you've got to assume that if you hit an animal with an arrow, the last thing it wants to do is charge you, unless it's a predator. Predators might charge you. There's a real possibility that if you hit a bear, although I know people that have hit a moose. My friend Ronella got run over by a moose. He shot it with a rifle and went to move in for the final shot.

And the thing was much better shaped than he thought it was. And it got up and charged him and knocked him over. Yeah, and I've seen another guy who shot a moose with a bow and the moose charged him but most of the time they want to get the fuck away from you but again it's not safe it's not supposed to be but it's real I mean if you are hunting an elk and you kill an elk with a bow and arrow you fucking killed an elk with a bow and arrow it is real it is 100 that is a real elk it's a wild fucking animal it doesn't have any rule book there's no act there's no act break there's no commercial time it's a that's a real 1 000 pound wild horse with a tree grown out of its fucking head and it's horny it's screaming this thing that's 10 times

bigger than you is running up a hill with a tree growing out of its head. And now you've got to carry it out of there. Yeah, well, you've got to cut it up. Well, the elk that I shot, luckily, were close enough to get a truck nearby. But I know guys that have had to camp them out, pack them out. Yeah, because, you know, the smell and everything, you're drawing predators at night if you have to do that bears you gotta be real careful

bears but wolves too I have a friend of mine who's gonna be on next week this guy John Dudley he was in Alberta and they shot an elk and they got surrounded by wolves

the wolves were trying to take the elk he said it was fuck they killed two wolves like they got they got charged by wolves yeah it got real weird man and he said and once they had killed two wolves like they got they got charged by wolves yeah it got real weird man and he said and once they had killed two um this alpha like hung around the edge of this uh ridge and looked down at them and just decided enough was enough and just went ghost and they all

disappeared the entire pack but they were around him howling He said he could hear like 12 distinctly different howls around them. And they have an elk on the ground. Yeah. And people, you know, people say, oh, he killed a wolf. That guy's an asshole. They kill a lot of wolves up there, folks. And you might think that's a terrible idea. And that's horrible.

And it is if you don't live there. But if you live there, fuck, they have to. is if you don't live there but if you live there fuck they have to like you don't understand everybody has this idea and i talk about this way too much i'll stop but everybody had this idea of predators that they're like some character in a movie that knows the script they don't man they you have to control their fucking populations they just found this 19 dead elk that these wolves killed in Wyoming. They just left them there. They just went on a slaughter fest.

They snuck into this pack of, like, some of those elk packs in Wyoming, you'll get like 100 elk. You know, it's immense. These huge, huge packs of elk. What would you call them? A herd of elk? And so this wolf pack jumped in there. Look at all the elk they killed. 19 elk

and they didn't eat any of them. They just killed them. Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, unless you live there, it's hard to have an opinion one way or another. Everybody that has an opinion,

people that have unrealistic opinions about wolves, it's all coming from a beautiful place. It's coming from a place of love. They love animals. But they do breed like dogs. Yeah, they do. Yeah, they have litters, man. Nothing's hunting them. Yeah, people are like, only the alphas get to breed.

You better fucking read up on history. Natural history. That's not true. They all fuck. Dogs fuck like crazy. The alphas control most of the breeding, yeah. but it doesn't mean the other ones don't fuck there's a lot of wolves they have they just did some recent uh survey on wolves in uh i believe it was idaho and they were talking about how many of them there are they're like whoa like this is kind of they're far beyond where

they thought that they needed to be before they would put them back on the hunting list. But they don't, they don't ever want to put them on, like what happens is they reintroduced them in the 90s. And before that, they were pretty much wiped out by cattle ranchers and all these people throughout the West. There's very few like wild wolves in North America. And so they reintroduced these wolves from Canada. They happen to be larger, by the way. They're larger wolves than the wolves that were naturally here. What did the Native Americans do about the wolf population back in the day?

Well, they killed them, certainly, because they used to use their skins to sneak up on bison, actually. Right. There's a crazy fucking famous painting an iconic iconic painting of uh these uh american indians with a wolf costume on like they have uh covering their body and they're crawling with a bow and arrow up to these uh bison because bison weren't scared of wolves they'd be like bitch fucking kicking in your head yeah yeah right seriously yeah bisons don't that's one of the reasons why there were so many of them

no other animals really had a very difficult time taking them out look at this there's the picture that's like an icon yeah that's exactly how that one looked at me right there fuck left i was just like that's got to be bone chilling. What did that feel like? Staring that thing down, man. I froze. I literally froze. Cause I just, I didn't know what to do. Could be the end of your life. That was the thing.

I mean, you're standing there and I realized I'm, I've just put myself in a horrendously bad situation. The amount of force they could generate. You can't even resist it. There's nothing you could do. You're just completely helpless. Like there's literally nothing you could do. They run faster than you could do. You're just completely helpless. Like there's literally nothing you could do. They run faster than you.

And they're, you know, that's a 1,500, 2,000 pound animal. Fuck. And the Indians snuck up on them like that. And my friend Steve Rinella, not Steve Rinella, Remy Warren, he has this television show called Apex Predator. And they did all these different episodes on the ways different animals hunt their prey and see if he could recreate it. And that's one of the things he did. He took a wolf skin and put it on them and crawled up to these buffalo and got, like, right inside them. Yeah.

But they're afraid of us. Well, they're afraid of people because of our bang sticks yeah right true that i was saying uh earlier i forgot what i was talking about for a second but uh a friend of mine is a guide in colorado and they found these mountain lion tracks like all these mountain lion tracks and then elk tracks and then the mountain lion tracks and the elk tracks together and then there's a space of like several hundred yards where there was just elk tracks. And so they followed that elk track and they found a mountain lion on top of the elk killing it. This fucking giant elk, like a thousand pound elk.

He said it was a huge six by six. So you're talking about a mature animal. And this mountain lion was like fuck it i'm going for it and he jumped on this thing and clamped a hole of its back and then brought it down the mountain lion weighed 150 pounds right so it took out this thousand plus pound elk by jumping on its back and biting its neck you guys get them down in the valley not wise yeah yeah out here encroaching killed a koala bear at the zoo the other day. Yeah.

Now we're taking it seriously. Yeah. Well, they're like, how the fuck did it get in? It's got a 12-foot high fence. There's razor wire on the top. It's a 150-pound sneaky-ass cat, man. Come on. It saw that little fucking Ewok, and it was like, mm-hmm.

I know, but it climbed over barbed wire. That's hardcore, dude. That's hard as fucking core gets. 12-foot high fence, barbed wire on the top. It was like, mm, good try. I got this. Good try. He probably got cut up a bit.

But whatever. He's a mountain lion. They probably heal like that. It's an enormous cat. Think about that, though, man. A 150-pound cat. Yeah. Like, you know, you're riding your bike one day.

One of those things falls out of a tree on your head. It's going to grab your neck with these big old saber teeth and, like, take you to the ground and fucking play with you for a while. It's not just going to kill you. You know what I mean? It's going to mess with your shit. Look at the size of that fucker. That's the one that lives up in the Hollywood Hills. That's the one that they think killed the koala bear

that's a lion that's a lion dude I mean that's like a lion in Africa lion look at the fucking forearms on that goddamn thing like those front forearms

are insane that would be awful that is that's an insane amount of power that thing must have and they say that pound for pound

they're one of the strongest cats yeah I mean look at its yeah I mean his shoulders and arms my god yeah that thing must have. And they say that pound for pound, they're one of the strongest cats. Yeah. I mean, look at its, yeah, I mean, its shoulders and arms, my God. Yeah, I'll tell you right now, if a bobcat tries to fuck with me, I'll fuck up a bobcat. I'm pretty confident.

I'll kick a bobcat's ass. I bet it still wouldn't be fun. No, I'm kidding, man. Look, I have cats, and I have to wash them. And my daughter's allergic to cats, and the only way we can mitigate it is we have to shave them. So they get a buzz cut, like a lion's cut, and wash them. And it makes a giant difference in how much dander they leave. Because they're both, like, really fluffy cats.

They would leave cat hair everywhere. So this solution made a bit. But I have to fucking hold on to these little fuckers while they get shaved and man even though like they love me and they you know when they want to go man they want to go and you realize like how difficult they are to control this little yeah they're fucking they move they twist and contort and they can fucking they kick it off you and oh this big long sinewy relaxed muscles that all of a sudden you're like, holy shit, you're actually a little bodybuilder.

Okay. We're just so lucky we're so much bigger than them. But with a mountain lion, you're not. My wife wants to get a cat. There's a bobcat. I'm there. Come get some, bobcat. I'll fuck you up, bitch.

It'd probably be terrifying. Oh, that was a cute one. That's a lynx, though. I don't think that's a bobcat. You ever see those weird lynxes they have in Canada? Those white ones? I've never been to Canada, man. No, actually, that's not true.

I've been to Canada. I've just never been up to the part of Canada that I'd really like to see. They have these weird cats, man. They don't even look real. They look like a Star Wars cat. It's called a lynx. Lynx. And they have these crazy big paws with fur all there is look

at that the weird ears yeah come on man that's like a narnia animal some turkish delight yeah look at that that doesn't even look real look at that cat tell me that looks real that looks like something from some weird movie like their proportions like go back to that last picture. Jamie, look at the proportions of its body. It's so odd. Giant feet. Long ass big legs. Just a weird body, man. And that thing is just up there earning.

Just earning. Just out there hustling every day. Jacking shit with its face. What does it hunt in Canada, I guess? Everything. I'm sure small things. I don't think they get that big. I mean, if I had to guess, I would say lynx probably only gets to be like 50 pounds. See how big they get.

See if I'm right. I don't think they get much bigger than that. But I think they probably eat 24 pounds. Okay. I think they probably eat like rabbits and squirrels and shit or fawns they'll definitely eat fawns we found this fucked up video of this martin a martin chasing a rabbit you know what a martin is what is it play it for him jamie martin a martin is an animal that i always associated with fur because of those alaska shows you know those shows where the dudes are living up

in alaska there's one called mountain men and this guy runs a fur trap line, and one of the things that he traps is Martin. Well, that's a Martin. It's like a little badger, and it's chasing after a rabbit. So the little black thing in the back is the Martin, and this is literally a run for life. Look at this rabbit. It's going, fuck, fuck, and martin's hustling behind him he's moving

fuck yeah it is and this is like a crazy sprint i mean they're both sprinting it's like how long can they do it for and the martin just is relentless and these people are filming this from their fucking car following them behind them on the road and uh the martin just finally the rabbit starts trying to veer off the road and he gets into this thick shit and the Martin just finally, the rabbit starts trying to veer off the road and he gets into this thick shit and the Martin closes the distance. But look at the drama here. It runs better on the pack. Boom, bitch.

Oh, my God. Yeah. And here's what's crazy is they're the same size. In fact, the Martin is smaller than the rabbit. Look at the difference. That thing's mean as shit. Oh, yeah, man. I mean, he just carried it up by its face.

That's like you jumping on a dude. He's like he hit a nitro button or something. Well, he knew the end was near. That was cool. Yeah. Crazy. Imagine if you fought with a dude to the death with your faces, right? You killed him with your face and then dragged him up a hill with your face

all in the course of 15 seconds from the time that martin got a hold of that rabbit that rabbit is dead as fuck and he most he sees all kinds of horrible shit happen to people like every day you know i mean that's why i'm thankful i just have to get up and try to sing and pitch every to make money uh he said the worst thing he ever told me was uh there was a guy who was driving along on his way to work one morning hit a deer like the deer the body split in half and the ass end of the deer came up over the hood and threw his windshield it was just intestines and blood and shit and guts everywhere all over like the glass from which he'll cut his face all up so now he's got all this shit down in the blood and in his face. So they bring this guy.

And so he came in and went through the windshield and laid down in this creek bed after he hit the deer and lay there. And while he was laying in the damn creek bed, raccoons came and snacked on his fucking face. So then the guy ended up living. But, I mean, between all the bacteria. So he got jacked yeah hit a deer all that shit happened and i guess he like came out of the truck and then laid down in this ditch until they found him like you know however many hours later and while he was laying there unconscious wild woodland creatures had came and eaten the open, dude had a bad day, man.

Jesus. How much of his face got bitten off? Man, I'll... Patrick said it was not pretty. Holy fuck, man. And the dumber he actually lived. Oh, my God. I don't know that I'd want to survive something like that.

Or maybe you do. You always want to survive, but... Yeah, you always want to survive. You just want to survive just to kill as many fucking raccoons as fucking raccoons yeah you'd be like the best raccoon hunter ever on that day on you you'd be a raccoon serial killer just standing in front of trash cans with a rifle yeah i'm glad i don't have to work at a hospital oh dude i have a buddy who's an emt she's telling me some stories the craziest stories my friend steve Who's an EMT He used to tell me Some stories The craziest stories My friend Steve He's an ophthalmologist

And he did his residency In Miami During the cocaine days And he's like Well played He's like dude You don't even Fucking

To this day This guy Steve is strapped Everywhere he goes Really Yeah He wears a fucking gun Everywhere

He doesn't play games He lives in Arizona And one of the reasons why he likes Arizona is because he can conceal carry. He just sees too much. He saw too much early on. You know, he told me just every day was just gunshot to the head, gunshot to the head, gunshot to the head. Like you're in the –

Yeah. How are you going to maintain any kind of positive outlook you can't with or not just get completely burnt out you get out of it and he got out of it when he got out of it it was just like this big breath like whoa what the fuck did i just experience but now the knowledge that not only was that a real thing that he was experiencing on a daily basis all that insane violence and all the gunshots and all the craziness, he knows that even if it's not like that anymore, like even if people, the cocaine days are kind of over,

Miami's much more calm, the violence is not as bad, he knows that that is what people are capable of within his lifetime. I'm sure you still see that shit all the time. I bet you do, but I think there was a level of it during the 80s in Miami. Do you know who Billy Corbin is, the documentary filmmaker? Name's familiar. He's got these two great documentaries called Cocaine Cowboys and Cocaine Cowboys 2. And Billy, he's been on the podcast before talking about it, but he did a great job of showing how insane that time

was which one of the things that he talked about was how one year the graduating class of the police academy every single one of them within like a year was either dead or in jail they'd been murdered or they were in jail for corruption. Like the whole police department was just massively corrupt. Everyone was doing cocaine. There was murders like crazy, all left and right and all around. It was just complete chaos. Yeah, who's the, what's one of the guy's names from the documentary? The white dude with the mustache that was kind of like a ringleader of it all.

I think he went to prison and he's out now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy who flew the planes. Yeah. Buried the money in the yards. I don't remember his name either. But I remember the lady, Griselda. Griselda.

Whoa. The godmother. Whoa. That lady, I think she's still alive, man. She might have died recently, but I think she was alive and free in Columbia. Yeah, she's living in South America for a long time yeah she got out of jail in America and you know if her hitman who's in jail was in the documentary is being honest about how many people she killed like whoa whoa Jack she lost years ago. So when the second movie was made, they focused on her and her being released.

Oh, my God. What a crazy time. So my friend Steve, he just saw all that, man. He saw a guy with a light bulb up his ass. For what? Someone stuffed a light bulb up their ass. You know one of those twisty light bulbs don't like the christmas tree looking like yeah they twist they they go no i'm not a christmas

light this up my ass big big ass one you know i mean i say it looks like christmas tree i don't mean like a little one that's on your tree right i'm talking about a several inch long light bulb was stuffed up this dude's ass. People get bored, man. Yeah, they found everything. Wine, champagne corks, all sorts of different objects, like coffee cups and stuff. Yeah. I've never heard any stories like that from my buddy. I guess it also probably correlates with the cocaine days. They're probably just sticking things in every hole they had.

I don't know, man. Hats off to anybody that can work. A coffee can in your ass? Well, in spite of seeing all this stuff, the different layers of society you're dealing with on a day-to-day basis and having to hold know having to hold a any type of firm belief in humanity or civilization i don't know i would wear a person i think even people that don't see violence like people maybe that see just a lot of accidents yeah it's got to be spooky they say that a lot of women who uh are like emts have a hard time settling down and like having families like they get whacked out by it like particularly that might be sexist to say i don't think it is

because uh i think that's something that i've heard female emts talk about just their own personal experiences but that it's so it's so dark like every day you're seeing broken necks and broken legs and car accidents and people splattered on the road. And, you know, it's grueling after a while. So what's PTSD numbers like in a profession like that? I mean, you've got to be having some trauma. Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, there's a certain amount of stress that I think comes with any kind of job where you're looking at death a lot. I mean, how much PTSD does a doctor have?

Like emergency room doctors, how much do they just get accustomed to it? I think it takes a very special type of personality. You know what I think it also does, man? I think it's really a lot like what we were talking about when you're taking in all these stories in the world. Because you can manage your own life right but but you're not you're if you're paying attention to the news you're going to get inundated with stories by the seven billion people and it's just too much there's just too much data coming at you and too much of it is negative i think that's probably the same way with like an emergency room doctor like it's okay if you see somebody get hurt

once in your life a few times in your life, or maybe even, you know, like, you can get desensitized. They're not processing it because it's just, it's on to the next case. You can definitely get desensitized. It doesn't, it's not, it doesn't freak you out anymore. You know, see a guy whose leg is hanging off, you know. I mean, especially guys who are taking care of troops. Oh, Lord. EMTs.

Combat medics? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Wild people are shooting at you? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're trying to carry them out while bullets are fling. It's insanity.

Again, I just try to sing in key, man. I know. I'm very grateful. We got it easy. We got it easy. It's just fascinating um how many different ways to be a person there are you know how many different different kind of lives you can live how many different types of experiences you can have and your your reality could be so much

different than somebody else's reality and you're convinced that your reality is life and they're convinced that theirs is life you know like what we're talking about with the wolves like those people that live near those things that are fucking shit in their pants when they hear those howls at night my buddy lives in bc and his neighbor's cow was taken out by wolves while they were all watching they're all looking out the window they heard what are you gonna do can't do shit you can go out and start shooting wait for to get full and fuck off yeah yeah you can go out and start shooting but it's dark unless you have pretty country i could live up there but you know the winters i think would just be that's the thing

they're ruthless but anywhere that's it's too nice you get too many people right it's like we were talking about la it's too perfect every day get too many people. It's like we were talking about L.A. Los Angeles. It's too perfect. Every day the weather's perfect. But because of that, you have to breathe carbon monoxide air. You know, I was telling you yesterday, it was the first time I'd ever, because at some point I think my family was ready for an adventure or a relocation. But, yeah, I don't know that I could ever acclimate,

no matter how long I was here, to convincing myself that the traffic is... Worth it? Worth it. You don't have to live here. See, that's the beautiful thing about Southern California is you could live in San Diego, like La Jolla, which is beautiful and quiet and fucking picturesque.

You see the oceans right there. It's picturesque. You see the ocean. It's right there. It's so pretty. I like the northern part of the state a lot, too. The northern part of the state is amazing. I was in Mendocino over by where the ocean is. It's like three hours plus, maybe four hours north of San Francisco. It's so pretty, man.

The Redwood Forest. We went through the Redwood Forest and did all that man. So, the Redwood Forest. We went through the Redwood Forest. Yeah. Did all that shit. God, so pretty. Went to Monterey once for a meeting with my booking agency. The people that live there got it pretty well. Yeah.

That does not suck. And some friends in San Luis Obispo. That's really beautiful. That's a nice spot, too. Those places are calm. Right. Really mellow, you can tell. Yeah, real mellow.

My buddy John lives in San Luis Obispo. I was about 15 years younger. LA would seem like a good idea. Right. But now... Santa Barbara's real nice too, man. Really? Love it there. I'm going... I've got a gig there on Friday night. Santa Barbara's like...

I don't think it's more than 100,000 plus people. Still that small? I don't think it's more than 100,000 plus people. Still that small? I don't think it's very big, man. Shooter loves it out here. He's lived out here a while. Well, he's crazy. Shooter lives in the heart of darkness.

He's in Los Feliz. He has an apartment in Los Feliz. He's a crazy man. He loves it. Shooter's such a character, man. Dude. I love that guy. Sweetest guy on the planet. Oh, he loves it. Shooter's such a character, man. Dude. I love that guy. Sweetest guy on the planet. Oh, he's the best.

He's also just, like, such a character. Like, who he is as a person. You know, we had him in here, and he was talking about doing meth. He's like, oh, yeah, I've done meth. That ain't shit. That's the way he talks about it. Like, come on, man. You ain't done meth.

Oh, you never tried crank, bro? Yeah, that trucker crank. He's a talented guy, too. And I also like that, you know, you could listen to any one of his albums, and it's like, oh, okay. He's obviously in some totally different phase in this album. He's just trying some other shit out. He's one of the more naturally and genuinely curious and interested interested people you know like when he's listening to you

and asking questions he actually means it oh yeah yeah that's which is a rare thing in the music business and coming from the son of royalty right you know i mean his dad was royalty i mean there's there's a few musical icons that you look at and you go, well, that's like in the Royal 100, 100%. You know, Waylon Jennings is in the fucking Royal 100. I mean, there's just people that are in, you know. Chuck Berry's in. You know what I'm saying? He's in forever.

Waylon Jennings is in. He's in. That's his son. So for him to be so normal and also be a musician and not be some weirdo who fucking desperately craves attention or needs validation, he's a genuine artist and very content. If anything, I've seen him use his position to only try to help other people instead of himself. And that's the truth.

Man. Well, his mom was obviously so nice, too. Oh, yeah. He did it with his mom. Totally. She's so nice. And really, like, sharp and smart. Oh, yeah.

Cool to talk to. She's paying attention oh yeah man just cool to talk to it's so the weird business man trying to i mean everyone out there everyone i think that's trying everyone that's not like some sort of a perfect person is trying to do better with their life you know you're trying to improve on whatever you're doing whether it's your job or you know your business or whatever that whatever your hobby is or your obsession we're all trying to improve on it but one of the weird things about being a musician i guess a comic as well is that you're doing that in front of everybody you know like you're developed we're all developing as humans you know but you're also're also performing in front of all those people.

Yeah. When you write songs, I guess you can't ever stop to think, oh, I have to sing this the rest of my life. You know what I mean? Because you'll never write any songs. You could have the crown. You don't like that song. Well, for me, I don't know. I like the song.

A lot of people really like that song. That song's badass. I play that song at the gym almost every time I work out. That's a badass song. You're just too close to it. I'm too close to it. Well, yeah. It was a laundry list about my view on laundry list experience.

You know what I mean? Yeah. It's such a great song, though, man. Yeah, we'll dig that one back out. It's time to work it up, I think, in a new way. Make it fresh for us. I don't know. For me, man, I love the recording process most of all.

Really? Because that's where you learn if you've improved, you know, you're under a microscope. Uh, I get like hyper-focused in the studio. Um, it's a good thing. Other people get tired or I'd probably just keep them in there all day. You know what I mean? And then, but it's almost like you're so tied to this thing and in it that by the time it's finished, you just don't even want to think about it anymore you want to it gets like all right well that's done right you know but now you got to work it up and go out in a live context and and play this thing whereas hopefully you've

you've tried to bare your soul and be as honest as possible but then you're standing in front of a room every night so you have to block that part of it out of your head that like people are judging you right you know uh and that's also part of it too you know you're living that life experience out in real time so it's it's all been really educational and new for me in terms of figuring out how to navigate that in as artistic a way as possible without compromising anything, I guess. I think we all learn from each other in that way. Because it's got to sell. Yeah. Or you don't get to do it anymore.

Exactly. Yeah. Do you learn from other musicians in that way? Do you see how other guys are handling it or how it influences their creative process? Does it influence you? I mean, you definitely notice traits in other people that you wish you had more of or that you could maybe adhere to, and it's motivating. But like you said, it's just about trying to be a better person and use whatever outlet this is in order hopefully to make other

people feel good too um or to deal with things that maybe they don't know how to express which for me i think is the most important part of making music that's that's what it's always given me in the past before i was a performer and i just loved it from a sheer listeners position you know it offers us a lot of comfort and um i don't know i mean people tell you this after the shows that you're making an impact on their life and you know some uh my buddy jordo said that his friend her grandmother's like laying in her hospital bed and the last thing she heard she played her one of my songs like you know that song my voice she just said wow he's got a really pretty voice and she's like totally relaxed you know so you hear voice she just said wow he's got a really pretty voice and she was

like totally relaxed you know so you hear things like that and it's it's easy to get hung up on mechanics or expectations or pressures or the industry and all that but like it feels like if you just kind of step back and hit pause it's easy to remember that anybody doing this job is very lucky to be able to do this job and for me like uh i don't think i think in a lot of ways modern media and industry is sort of not ruined music but it's made it really hard for people to focus on what it's really about you know it's like life is all of a sudden one big episode of the voice and it's all about the the year in lists and who says this is better than what and saying somebody's art is better than somebody's art and i just don't think that that's ever like a healthy thing if that makes sense making a competition out of something that's supposed to make everybody feel included well

it's definitely contrary to what seems to be your primary focus which is making the best music for you for your expression the expressing yourself in the best way you can and making something that's going to impact people in a in a in a way where your thoughts are going to get across they're going to be moved by it you can't do that if you're thinking about winning awards it's contrary selling lots of records selling yeah or any of those things, like promoting it, business. You know, like anytime you... Not to say that it's impossible. It's hard. It's hard, but some people do sell a lot of records impacting people's lives with great music.

It's out there. Well, great music sells. Yeah, period. It always finds a way. Yeah, I mean, it's going to sell whether you're... But, like, did you see Amy? Amy. Amy Winehousehouse the documentary

her records that's why i hired the dab kings for for this new one man just the sound of what they did on those albums amazing she's such a good musician yeah she was so like her sound that what she put together was so but to see how the intense pressure of being, you know, Amy Winehouse in quotes. I mean, she was iconic. Or Justin Bieber or anybody else who's surrounded by enablers and kept copacetic all the time and just yes, yes, yes, you know. You've got to do other things, man. You've got to be grounded, you know, and I think.

You've got to go home and roll around and play with blocks. Yep, yep. That's what you've got to do. Yep. I like to get in the pool with them. They surf on my back. I go underwater and swim and they try to stand on me. It's hard to hold your breath for as long as it takes for a five-year-old to stand on

your back as you're floating. But I mean, other things as well, like as far as not just family and loved ones and friends, which are definitely important, but I also think that other disciplines are important. Other focuses, other things you're equally interested in, you know, because they alleviate some of the pressure of what it is to be singularly focused on one thing. Yeah. Which we can get to the point of madness. And it does. Yeah.

I got a drum kit i got really into playing drums about six months ago just it's meditational man you have to relax to do it well and you're not thinking about anything else and once i realized that i was like oh this is really good for me and uh but yeah that's my thing i'm so this music thing once it becomes a career it you have to be singularly focused especially when thinking about a record man my wife she just kind of leaves me alone uh once she sees me go to that weird play that processing place you know what i mean because it's like she you know it's like nothing else is in the room anyway for a while and then i'm done and you just feel like

okay and then you don't write a song for a year. Well, she seems very smart and supportive. She can recognize that. That's so important. I have friends that are in relationships where the wife is not very supportive and resists the creative process and doesn't understand it or care to. My wife's very creative too, so she understands. She's very independent, so it's being an only child.

She knows there's just sometimes where i have to go and be in my own little space i just don't think you get to what you're doing right now i don't think you get to that state unless you're a little crazy you have to be you got to be locked into it man you know i like by the way uh i'm so sorry i leaked the name of your album out as i love it i loved it i really did i leaked it out on instagram but it was fucking good man i was in the gym and uh and i said god damn people gotta hear about this i was i was so high i was in uh colorado and when you get high in colorado when you're at 8 000 feet or is is Utah actually 8,000 feet it just hits you in some crazy uh you feel like you're on a spaceship like on top of the

world like you're like I was feeling like I was connected to the world in some really weird way and I was at the gym I just barbecued and that that album was so good it was so good especially in that moment at the gym endorphins flowing and then uh you sent me a text hey man i think you leaked the name of my album i went oh no i didn't even think of that man if you honestly at this point it's uh this is definitely a record that anybody that knows about me, I would like them to hear as a record. Because that's how I recorded it to be heard. Well, that's one of the interesting aspects of it. Yeah.

It's obviously one piece. Yeah. Well, you sent me two versions of it. It was kind of cool, too. Or the people did. They sent me one version, which is just one recording. And then the other one is side two. And then another one where all the songs were broken down individually. Broken down by song. But it almost feels like I shouldn't be looking at that, you know? I mean, ideally, I would. That's not how I i'd it wasn't designed to be heard broken apart i guess but people like to hear like one song if they're in the car for 10 minutes

yeah on the way home they like to hear one song it's not not a bad yeah well you know all of my favorite records like in my top four or five records are all concept records and a lot of them are in song cycle which is uh what they call it like you know dark side of the moon where it's just one continuous or the wall or the wall or what's going on with marvin gaye oh yeah what's going on was one yeah that was all in song cycle it was a written from the narrative of a vietnam vet returning home to like an inner city home and trying to adapt to society again it It's a heavy album, man. And then Astral Weeks by

Van Morrison. If you've never heard that record, that's some powerful dope. No, I haven't. It's all about the journey of a soul's life. Whoa. I never got into Van Morrison other than Moondash. Moondash is one of my favorite songs ever. I always wonder.

That's what he called his commercial album because Astral Weeks although it's like now considered probably one of the greatest records ever recorded it didn't sell very well because it was too artsy

for a lot of people so then he turned around and intentionally made a more commercially accessible album which was Moondance and of course sold a gazillion copies

whenever I think about Marvin Gaye I think about this chick that I used to date because when Marvin Gaye got shot and killed by his dad. Here in L.A., right? I don't know where it was. Yeah, I think it was in Los Angeles.

That's a tragic story. He got shot and killed by his own father. Yeah. The girl I was dating goes, what kind of a horrible person must he have been that his dad shot him? I went, what? That's not how it works like but that was how she viewed the world like if your father shot you you must have been a horrible person so fuck fuck him he's probably my my favorite musician of all time so i know more about marvin gaye than we want to go into really yeah it's a

really dark story yeah like how so he's uh there was a lot of that him and his dad had things that stemmed from childhood i think his dad was a a preacher one but also a crossdresser and so marvin i think was ridiculed a lot and caught a lot of shame for that and his dad was very strict authoritarian really tyrannical rule in the house and beat his mom a lot um so a lot of marvin's sexual deviancy later on they think probably stemmed from from some of that but i mean he's just a really highly sensitive guy and a genius that uh i don't know what kind of sexual deviancy was he involved in? Well, I never heard that. Like air the gas,

dirty laundry, but there's books about it. He was doing this like S and M bondage. I think he had a pretty, pretty substantial porn collection. Oh, okay. Like to talk his 17 year old girlfriends and the orgies and threesomes and that kind of thing.

That was legal back then. Yeah. He was just living, bro. Got on the yayo and it went from there but i think after the height of his fame and he was best selling right he was married to the daughter of the president of motown or sister or one of the other and she divorced him basically and took everything like the whole fortune and he ended up smoking crack in a bread truck in hawaii no and he i mean this is after he's marvin fucking gay you know what i mean yeah and then uh just went down from hill from there nobody could get to him or help him out

so he had to move back in with his parents what as a grown-ass man and while he's marvin fucking gay and then they think a lot of people say that's where the source of all the trauma and pain, him going back to that at that stage in his life was the worst thing that could have happened. And being around his dad again. Being around his dad. Apparently he had an argument and he told his dad, like, if he ever touched his mom again, he'd kill him. And his dad said, well, if you ever lay a hand on me, I'll kill you and i think and some people speculate that marvin was just so done with all of it the fame and everything that he knew by punching his father it would get him

out of it his dad shot him twice upstairs in the bedroom oh my god and then i think he laid there for about 20 minutes bleeding and then once the ambulance showed up the paramedics couldn't come in the house as long as the dad was still in there with the gun so i think his sister-in-law or brother somebody to come in and like find the gun that his father had hidden because he wasn't talking and it took him so by the time they got him out of the house marvin died in the hot in the ambulance that's heavy man fuck what a crazy story really sad

it is a terrible story it's you always when you hear about a guy that like has this it's almost like overwhelming desire to express himself you know like when you have a song like what's going on or if you have a song like uh let's get it on you know devastating come on i mean there's there's some intense memory like his emotional

connection to what he's doing it's just so off the charts and a lot of times that's almost like energized by dark moments in your life oh yeah dark memories could it overwhelms those those even the positive things you show me a a happy well adjusted artist and I'll show you

some boring fucking art bro yeah let's get it on let's do shit dude if you got a girl that likes

let's get it on you got a good one he I think she was 17 when he wrote that album for her. Really? It was all about his little young mistress. Ooh, Jesus, that's dark.

Telling her how much he wanted to do the deed. Oof. Whole record. 17 is so good. I think there's a song called You Really Love to Ball on the end of that album.

Really? Yeah, and it's just like women moaning and orgasm and really that guy was fearless man think of a shit well he's just getting away with it too

at that time he was probably selling so many records so like go ahead Marvin run with it didn't tour he never toured

really yeah hardly ever they couldn't drag him out on a stage no shit really I think when when Let's Get It On

was blowing up he was living in a cabin up on top of topanga canyon with his girlfriend and just hiding from the world doing blow literally he played one concert that entire record cycle that's where everybody lived back then i saw hendrix house was for sale a few years back. It was a house that Hendrix bought, but he never moved into. He bought it right before he died. I'll take it. Even if he didn't live there, I'm like, I'll still buy it.

I need to know. Oh, man. Did he write something anywhere? Was it in paper? Did he walk in? If he was there, he probably wrote something. He must have bought it, so he had a look at it. So if he looked at it, he was in he liked it he must have bought it so he had to look at it so if he looked at it he was in there so he walked around i'll take it he probably

boned the realtor i'll take it well there was a house that was for sale that was wilt chamberlain's house that had the whole deal it had a circular bed that spun around it was like the ultimate fuck castle and you know wilt chamberlain on his way to banging 10 000 different women allegedly according to him you know and he had just this insane bachelor pad that was just how did he get anything else look at it look at it like that's his house look at that bed that's the bed that looks like the on enter the dragon mr han's fucking palace or something. What is going on there, bro?

That's the 10th level of fuck. Yeah, I'd be walking around in there trying to find myself in the mirrors. Look at that shit. A few years back, that house was for sale. Is that the outside of it? Wow, how dope. A few years back, the house was for sale. It's an epic, epic house.

He's like, I'll fuck my dog, too I'm not afraid but they had a really hard time selling it because it was worth a lot of money that place man It was worth a lot of money and it wasn't the kind of house that a normal person could live in They're like one better chamberlain's bungalow. Did you see that? No look at that pool tables like where his knees are Look at that pool table. It's like where his knees are. It's hilarious. I wonder if that house ever sold.

It might be one of those things that you just keep selling and buying, but it's really funky, like modern for the 1980s looking. It's a dope crib, man. Oh, yeah, man. Look at that place. It's all angular and shit, like a transformer. Two and a half acres. Like you're expected to go bleh bleh bleh bleh bleh.

What's something like that sell for now here? Even if it wasn't Wilt Chamberlain's house, what's something like that? That's a $10 million house. $10 million. Depending on where it is.

If that's in the Hollywood Hills, that fucking crazy palace with the way his pool is, like look at it. I mean, that's a piece of art. That's not just a house. You'd have to have the right buyer. What am I, a real estate guy?

Look at him flipping houses all of a sudden. What the fuck do I know? I don't even know how much toothpaste costs. I'm telling you how much this house is. I like to say $10 million, though. It's a good number. I want to say it's a dope house. No less than $10 million.

In 2007, it was $10.5 million. See? Bitch, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about oh man 10 to the point 5 is the negotiating that's where that's the wiggle room from 11.5 so it's sold or that's like eight years ago that's how much it was for sale I was listed at 11.5 I was down to 10.5 so it might still be available nah i bet well i bet a house like that people buy it and they go what the fuck are we doing here let's make some money it's in bel-air and then they sell that thing oh bel-air yeah that's a expensive neighborhood dope views must be good to be will chamber back with no internet no twitter no facebook just all dick yeah those guys really just i mean free mean, free-for-all.

Oh, yeah. Come on, man. It's chaos. The president, President Kennedy was on a free-for-all. I mean, imagine that. The president just going buckwild. What's amazing is that everyone in the news, like all the reporters, they all knew it. Yeah, they didn't talk about it.

There was no stories written about it. Well, I wonder what that shift was. The shift was in America where they decided that they were just going to talk about everything. Like what caused the shift? Once they knew it sold. Yeah, I guess so, right? Once they figure out that's all people want is gossip. What do you think it was?

Like once there was too many different distribution methods? It seems like that's what it is, right? Like if you only have like a couple of different newspapers and a couple many different distribution methods, it seems like that's what it is, right? Like, if you only have, like, a couple of different newspapers and a couple of different television shows, it can all be kind of controlled. I mean, monopolize, yeah. Yeah, and you also put pressure on the reporters, probably, to not reveal that stuff.

WikiLeaks and that kind of shit. I mean, it's, you know... There was something on the radio in the car when I was coming here about... There was a big document... Panama leak? Yeah, yeah. I haven't gotten into it. I just heard the Cliff Notes,

but it sounds pretty heavy. It's supposed to be the biggest leak of documents ever. Millions of pages. Yeah. And apparently it just shows all this crazy collusion between world leaders and financial institutions. I used to obsess about that shit, and I wanted to know, you know.

I was like, man. But now, at this stage in my life, I mean, I just go ahead and assume. Yeah. And it's all fucking crooked. It is definitely all crooked. But you know what I think, man? I don't even think, I mean, I think everybody's got to pay attention to it, obviously.

I mean, we're all paying attention to it. But I don't think it's sustainable. I don't think you could do it anymore. I think these leaks are going to come more and more frequently, and they're going to be more and more accessible and more and more easy to get. I just don't think you're going to be able to fuck people like that anymore. I just don't think you could do it. Even the government?

I don't think they could do it anymore. I think what they're doing now, even right now, they're like clinging, just hanging on to this thing while it's shaking apart around them. The Apple fiasco and all that. They're not supposed to be in control of us, man. That's the bottom line. You're not supposed to be in control of Jamie. Jamie's not supposed to be in control of me.

And the government's not supposed to be in control of you. There's supposed to be some operating principles that we all commune under. And our community should be established in a way that benefits us, not the big banks, not the politicians, not fucking Hillary Clinton giving $250,000 speeches to a bunch of Wall Street people. That's all nonsense.

And that's some old shit that we just assume we have to stay with because it's been this way from the jump. It's been this way since we were kids. Well, my parents grew up with it and this is the system. Bullshit. They're staying with this system, not because it's the best, but because they figure out the best way to extract money from it.

You're not going to be able to do it. It's not going to happen. Once President Trump gets in office, everyone's going to realize what a fucking goddamn joke of a system we've put in place and there'll be some real talk about having some kind of a radical reform. Viva la revolution!

Like, what if they could just fire members of the Senate or the House of Representatives or Congress? That'd be a good idea. You're fired. You can't just say, we're not going to do our jobs. Yeah. You know. Well, there's just too many people that you don't know

that have any say whatsoever on how you live your life. Like, the idea that the Senate or that Congress or that the Supreme Court or any of these people could sit down and decide what you can and can't do with your body, what substances you can or can't put into them, what shouldn't, shouldn't be illegal. Like you shouldn't be able to decide that. That Nixon thing the other day was pretty interesting.

They were just like, yeah, this shit doesn't do anything. Yeah. Well, tell people what it was. There was a former aide, I think. Was that right? Somebody basically came out and said that the war on drugs was propagated to suppress minorities. Anti-war movement. Anti-war movement.

And they knew that there was no threat there and that it wasn't doing anything harmful to people. And basically they're on tape talking about it and laughing. Unbelievable. It's somebody on late night the other night when it came out, they said it perfectly. Like even from the grave, that guy manages to cultivate more fucking hatred. He was so crazy.

Dude, what an evil bastard. Here it goes. Last week, a quote from Richard Nixon's former chief domestic advisor, John Erichman, E-H-R-I-C-H

Erichman, surfaced confirming a disgusting truth that's been very well known by black folks for several decades. The war on drugs had nothing to do with eradicating a drug epidemic. Instead, it was a ploy to hide for the intentional targeting and decimating of the black community. Well, as well as... This next paragraph is the real thing.

This is Ericman's words. He said, the Nixon campaign in 1968 and the Nixon White House after that had two enemies, the anti-war left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew that we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and the blacks with heroin and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. Wow.

We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Holy fucking shit. Did we know we were lying about drugs? Of course we did. Whoa. Damn. That's dark.

That guy's only concentrating on black people, though. Did you go to an all-black site? That guy just wants to talk about the black part. He's got a big, smiling black face. The whole thing's disgusting. It's disgusting that we live under the echoes Of all these morons that were running the country back then All these creeps that could get away with shit

Just like Wilt Chamberlain's up there Banging up a storm And Marvin Gaye's coked up in Topanga Canyon With a 17 year old You can get away with anything back then Apparently you still can R. Kelly R. Kelly allegedly

But that's you know If you're Dick Cheney you can just shoot people Apparently you still can. R. Kelly. Holla. R. Kelly, allegedly. But that's, you know. If you're Dick Cheney, you could just shoot people in the fucking face, man. Literally. Yeah, literally. Well, do you know what he was doing? It's a canned hunt. Those are weird, man.

Do you know what that is? That's where they go out and you're basically guaranteed a trophy? No, man. They're bird hunting. So what happens is they go out and they open up these fucking boxes of birds. And the birds fly out and they shoot them. And he still shot somebody in the face? He still shot somebody in the face. And he didn't talk about it.

He wouldn't talk to anybody for like 16 hours afterwards. He was probably hammered. He was hammered. Oh, man. Most likely he was hammered oh man most likely he was hammered yeah allegedly allegedly can he still sue even though he doesn't have a heart he's like an artificial heart is he still allowed to sue but he shot his friend in the face and his friend apologized that's how fucking gangster dick cheney is wow his friend was like 60, walked it off. I'm really sorry.

I walked in front of your bullets, bro. Yeah. They were probably lit out of their fucking mind. You want to talk about PTSD? Do you imagine the demons inside the brain of Dick Cheney? Just knowing what he knows. Could you imagine? Knowing what he knows, could you imagine?

I mean, if that guy has an ounce of self-realization, an ounce of objectivity, of introspective thought, where he really thinks about, did I do the right thing? Do you think that weapons of mass destruction, do you think that was cool? Was that okay? There's only a few hundred thousand innocent. A million people died, but it was probably for the best historically. I mean, they were going to die anyway.

It's not like there are a million immortals, right? I mean, what? You're asking, do I think former Vice President Dick Cheney seeks daily affirmation? Well, he's a biblical character in that right after he had done all these things right he clearly pulled the strings to get us into iraq and there's clearly financial motives i mean he was the goddamn ceo of the company that got no bid billion dollar contracts for palpatine man he's a damn sith lord like bush like him or hate him he thought he was doing the right thing you know the guy believed well this is the thing the undeniable biblical thing about him.

So the guy has a ton of heart attacks, right? Yeah. They replaced his fucking heart. They replaced his valves with some machine. And this machine constantly pumped blood to the point where he didn't have a pulse. It was a constant flow. where he didn't have a pulse. It was a constant flow.

So if you put your finger on Dick Cheney while he had this artificial heart in place, he wouldn't have a pulse. It's Darth Vader. He's Darth Vader. He's fucking Darth Vader. Darth Vader with the helmet. He's like the old man of the era in Prometheus that was pretending to be dead and shit.

Make sure that's true. I'm pretty sure I'm correct about that, Jamie. Pull that up about Dick Cheney's heart being artificial and not having a pulse. Okay, yeah, I was just reading about the actual event and how it happened, and he shot him in the face, and they blamed the guy, Whittington is his name, for walking in front of him. Ah, you fucking idiot. Listen, man, you don't point your gun where people are.

The guy didn't walk in front of you. That's crazy. As a person who fires guns, you don't ever point your gun anywhere near a person. If a person walks in front, you pull your gun away from where that person is. You have to be aware of your left and your right at all times. You don't stand in front of somebody. The guy didn't just... It's not that guy's fault. Bionic Dick Cheney

technically has no pulse. Here it goes. During a recent heart surgery, doctors implanted a ventricular assist device to augment Cheney's failing ticker, but it also gives his critics another punchline to work with because the device moves blood continuously. It doesn't mimic the pulsating rhythm of the heartbeat.

Technically speaking, Dick Cheney no longer has a pulse. Insert Darth Vader comparisons here. And this is in 2010. And that dude's still kicking. That's amazing, man. I used to do this bit about Dick Cheney where he had one extra Secret Service agent. Like every other guy had five, but he had six.

And this one, they put him on like this all-vegetarian diet, and they had the dude jogging every day. He's like, why the fuck do I have to jog? And there was always a guy behind them with a giant cooler filled with ice. And the moment Dick Cheney has a heart attack, they were going to take that dude out, cut his chest open, shove his heart inside of Dick Cheney, and save Dick Cheney with just one extra secret service agent

that was a sacrifice. He's a dark guy, man. He was the CEO of the company that profited the most from them blowing shit up in Iraq. Bro. Around the time that I was in the Navy, they re-implemented this anthrax vaccination policy. I think they'd done it in the first Gulf War, too.

And a lot of people think it's directly what's responsible for the Gulf War syndrome and all those guys, like, dealing with chronic muscle spasms and fatigue. Really? So, yeah, but, like, they came down the pipeline again. They were going to make it a mandatory thing for everybody. And then, I think in 98, they recalled it. I can't remember, 98 or 99, but the Times and all these people had already kind of dug in and figured out that there was only one lab in the entire world authorized and regulated to manufacture the vaccine. I think their lab was Bioport up in Michigan. And one of the owners of the lab was a former admiral of the Navy and also on the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

I think his last name was Crow. And this guy, so you're telling me that dude didn't know that this contract, this major multi-billion dollar defense contract coming down the pipeline and then jumps in and buys this company you know to start pumping people with shit that they have no idea and they actually got the lab got shut down while they're manufacturing all this stuff oh my god who knows how many hundreds of thousands of people had to put that shit in their body you know and they will fucking experiment on soldiers they have done it

in the past is the precedent has been set a long time ago oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah i remember boot camp you go down this cattle line and there's like six people and you just keep going through and you go through it's like all these like shots guns they just i have no idea to this day what a lot of it even was, man. I got stationed overseas so we had to take a bunch of typhoid. But there's a whole lot of shit. They don't even tell you what they're putting in you, you know.

They don't have to tell you. For a week, you can't lift your arms up. You know what I mean? It's just like... How fucked is that? Is it they don't have to tell you? They don't have to tell you. That's crazy.

That they can just shoot vaccinations in you and they don't have to tell you what they're doing. And if you refuse to take them, they put you in prison. Really? Yeah. Or the brig, you know, like a lot of guys. How long did they put you in for? Until you give in? No, I knew guys, I think it was like 90 days restriction.

That's it? Yeah. And then they don't have to shoot you when you get out? No, no. No, it's not like that. It's just one of those. But, I mean, it was obviously about making money. Fuck.

You know, because, I mean, anthrax, let's say, okay, let's say you get hit with weaponized anthrax. Even if you've been vaccinated, it's a spore. It's a virus. It's going to mutate as soon as it hits the air. So, you know, I guess the argument or the reasoning was that it might make you live 30 or 40 extra seconds longer so you can hit the button and launch some more missiles at them i don't know what the reason behind it was but uh yeah a lot of it was a big deal i remember when that story came out they found out that the the admiral owned the company you know it's like wait

a minute what that's so crazy this is legal that so crazy. I wonder if he took the shot. I doubt it. Well, I'd heard that Gulf War Syndrome was connected to depleted uranium. Maybe it was several different factors. Who knows, man? Yeah. Many different factors, because they know that they definitely used depleted uranium in shells as anti-tank weapons. That's been proven.

And that was something that they were never supposed to use. And the half-life on that shit is something like 100,000 years or something nutty. So there's these places in Iraq to this day that are just fucksville from these depleted uranium shells slamming into tanks. And then soldiers would take pieces from those tanks as memories. They'd take them home as souvenirs. And so you're carrying something that's highly radioactive. Like those depleted uranium shells, it's literally nuclear waste. Right.

And they use that as a shell, and it just goes through everything. I mean, you're harnessing the power of the sun to blow a hole through a Jeep, and then these poor fuckers, you know, they stumble upon this Jeep, and nobody had told them shit. And they're, hey, man, let me take this license plate home. You shouldn't even be anywhere near that.

You shouldn't even be a mile away from that fucking Jeep. I mean, while they're hanging around that goddamn thing who knows man my grandfather was in the south pacific during world war ii and even as an older man he must have gotten something in his blood over there because it'd be the middle of july and he'd be sitting in the house with like long johns and corduroy pants and a flannel shirt on talking about i'm cold you know jesus just like so i mean there must have been some of this nerve gas or well maybe even just tropical diseases yeah i talked to this this um guy he's a um an expert infectious diseases his name is uh peter hotez he's a um professor i think at the university of houston um but he's a professor, I think, at the University of Houston. But he specializes in diseases that people get in tropical climates.

And he told me that when you look at a tropical environment, 100% of those people are infected with some sort of parasite. 100%. Built up resistance to it. Or not. Or they up resistance to it. Or not. Or they're affected by it. Like we were talking about all sorts of different moisture-borne bacterial diseases that people get from dirty water and stuff that you just get from bugs and you get from the air. It's a jungle, man. You're basically living in a Petri dish. Yep.

You live in a nice... New shit's coming to life every day yeah i mean if you think about the jungle right if you go there and you see all that vegetation all right everywhere around you is just life and crickets and bugs and snakes and spiders and cats and fucking sloths and eagles and monkeys and shit whoa like there's so much life there that it's at a macro level, too. It's at a micro level. Like, there's life that you're not going to see. It's going to get into your body.

It's crawling up your asshole right now while you're swimming or, you know, eating. It becomes a part of you. Yeah. Like, they have these parasites that become a part of you. A buddy of mine got trichinosis. Oh, dude. Yeah. Jesus. He got trichinosis oh dude yeah jesus he got trichinosis from eating uh bear

meat that wasn't cooked that well actually he was on the show his name is steve ronell he's a host of this show called meat eater and he was on the show with a bunch of other crew members they all ate this bear and they all didn't cook it well they didn't cook it well enough and they were joking about getting trichinosis at the time so So they all got trichinosis. So they have these little tiny worms, these larvae that are in their body forever. Growing. Well, they don't grow. They just stay dormant in your body

until someone comes along. Say if you ate Steve Rinella and you didn't cook him to 160 degrees, you would get trichinosis from him. Like it's in him. Forever. Just, yeah, just part of the deal. And he said he was like really deathly sick for like seven days felt like shit like he had the flu and pain all the time is aching in pain and then it

went away and then it just you just deal with the fact that now you have trichinosis but like in these tropical environments there's tons of people that have all sorts of crazy parasites in their body. I think dysentery or malaria, any damn thing. Yeah. And some parasites they're just starting to now understand. There's parasites that affect behavior. There's some shit called toxoplasmosis. Have you heard of that one?

The cat parasite? Endoplasmosis. You can fucking die from smelling bird shit. Yes. Dude, one of the creepiest stories I've ever heard was these guys in africa they were standing in front of a cave i think it was africa and they were standing in front of a cave and they were scientists and they wanted to photograph these birds fly or these bats rather flying out of the cave when they would go out at night because you know the bats leave caves in

mass and there was millions of bats literally millions of bats in this cave. And so they parked out in front of this cave. They set up the camera. Millions of piles of bat shit too. Exactly. They got shit on. That's what they didn't anticipate. While they're flying out of the cave, they got shit all over.

They got shit on and they got deathly ill and they were dead within weeks. Both guys died. Oh yeah, I saw a thing on TV about that. Yeah, they died from hemorrhagic viruses, which means they start bleeding out of their fucking eyeballs. That's what you get for going and looking in bat caves, man.

Well, bring that raincoat, son. Some goggles. Yeah, man. You gotta, don't eat it. Definitely don't eat it. But it gets in your skin. Like, you can't have that shit on your skin. Like, you can get sick just from it contacting your face.

But bat, dirty bat shit shits on your face, Like you can get sick just from it contacting your face. But bat, dirty bat shit shits on your face, you could probably die. I'd want to. Yeah. Oh man. There's so many parts of the world

where there's so much life and that life is so much more dangerous. We're just so used to life being like, oh look at the squirrel. I love wildlife. Look at that bird. So cute. Look at look at that yeah you always hear about these people like talking about going down to

ecuador and peru to do ayahuasca like fuck that i don't want to go out in that damn jungle with all those bugs and caterpillars and shit snakes crawling up my leg they say that's part of the experience is going to the jungle but yeah you you can do that in Malibu. You can do it in Malibu. I'm good, man. You can just sit down in the house. I'll do the cliff notes.

The cliff notes is DMT. Man, I think going to the jungle would probably be pretty badass but you have to have a thermos shell with you. all running around in the woods. You're out there. Yeah but you have to have a thermos shell with you

yeah you have to have people that are awake with spotlights and guns yeah you don't want to be that one dude

that goes to South America and gets jacked by a leopard I'll just sleep in this tree jaguar be a jaguar jaguar

jaguar South America right leopards Africa Asia that sounds right yeah man this has been a national

geographic podcast man they often times are you know a guy named Steve Mears Africa, Asia. That sounds right. I think so. Yeah, man. This has been a National Geographic podcast, man. They oftentimes are. You know a guy named Steve Mears? Mears? How do you spell his last name? He's a British guy. He's like a naturalist. He's probably a master survivalist, but I think it's Mears.

Look it up. Steve Mears, man. You should try to get him on the show sometime. I used to sit and just watch hours of youtube videos he's like one of the you just tell you just like a beautiful human being but he knows all about uh it's like bear grills and mr rogers you know what i mean but combined together but a little more legit on the knowledge side than bear grills yeah bear grills was legit oh surerylls got compromised by Hollywood. Hollywood.

Do you know why Bear Grylls got that show? I have no idea. I'll give you some information. Drinking his piss? Nope. Les Stroud, Survivorman, did not want to fake anything. Les Stroud did all his own shit. He went by himself.

He put himself in dangerous situations. He lost tons of weight on camera. He was literally starving to death. He documented the entire thing. By himself? 100% by himself. Encounters with wild animals, like really dangerous situations, almost starving to death, almost freezing to death, having to make fire on your own, and going there with a very limited amount of things to keep. Like he would go there with a pocket knife.

He would allow himself some string that he could go fishing with. Go. And he would stay for seven days and have a drop-off point where they would drop him off then a pickup point and if he didn't go to the pickup point then they'd have to go looking for him but they wanted to fake stuff and bear bear grills filled that gap because less wouldn't fake anything he's like no we're not bringing a camera crew because then it's not me by myself you lose all of what makes the show special. So what he did is just a bunch of things that they set up.

Like, if I found this sheep, I could take it and make a coat. They put the sheep there. They killed the sheep. They did it for him. Better drink my piss. He'd be doing all these stunts, like jumping from tree to tree. Unnecessary risks. Look at him.

Hanging out with hippos. Is it this guy? No. His name's Steve Blackshaw. I can't find a Steve. What was his last name? Ray Mears. Ray Mears.

Ray Mears. This guy's hanging out with hippos. That guy's insane. Ray Mears. Gangster. There's a show called Carter's War, sure there's a show called carter's war and it's um this show about this guy who is uh an anti anti-poaching um official in africa and he tries to prevent uh them from poaching all these animals a lot of it is for um the asian market for rhino horn and a bunch of these different animals that

they want like uh ivory from and rhino horns, a big one. They keep finding these rhinos murdered with their horns hacked off. It's a fucking sobering show, man, for two reasons. One, because you see what people are willing to do to these animals. Just shoot them in the head and cut their fucking horns off and cut half their face off like a chainsaw and shit. It's crazy. And then also you see how fucking poor these people are. And then you realize, of course they're going to do that.

If they can shoot that rhino and make $50,000 from its magic horn, or whatever the fuck they make, they'd probably make $50. But if they can make that, and it's between them starving and not starving, that's literally what you're looking at. Yeah. Everything's subjective. Is this the gentleman? That's him.

This show's called Bushcraft. Bushcraft. He's hanging out with a wolf. Look at this motherfucker. He knows the wolves. He's like the most unassuming guy ever, but he's so badass, dude.

It's called Bushcraft? Bushcraft, yeah. Is it an English show or an Australian show? Yeah, on the BBC, I believe. Oh, man. Yeah. Dude will just walk out is it an English show or an Australian show it's English yeah on the BBC I believe oh man yeah dude will just walk out

in the woods with nothing but a damn oh there he is metal pot what's he keeping there a fish what the looks like some piece of meat

or something he got yeah these guys that are into like surviving on their own like that they take great pleasure with that, they're always fascinating. He's really more of a naturalist, too, like fauna and natural vegetation and foraging

food on your own. It's a lot more useful information than just, okay, you got three days, drink your piss and don't get eaten by an alligator. There we go. It's like, no, man. Well, Survivorman came up, Les came up with all that on his own right his concept because he was actually living in the forest with his pregnant wife the two of them there by themselves when he was a younger man like he did this on

his own before you know before he was famous like he's been doing this forever what's his background where do you learn it, I don't know, man. That's a good question. He told me, I forgot. I think he just learned. No, I remember watching the show, like that dude is suffering

for those 30 minutes of viewing entertainment. He's got this wacky thing he's doing now, though, he's looking for Bigfoot. He's got a Survivor Man, Bigfoot is like

the biggest thing since sliced bread. Leavenworth, Washington. That's where he is? That's where he's at. Did you see him? Yeah, yeah so we got a cup of coffee on south road one day this lady had a whole photo album full of pictures of bigfoot in her backyard it looked like some bullshit like her neighbor jacking off yeah she's selling coffee though i talked to one lady when i was doing this uh sci-fi show we did a whole episode on talked to one lady when I was doing this sci-fi show.

We did a whole episode on Bigfoot. One lady that I really believe saw something. I really believe she did. But what I think she probably saw was a black bear. Because black bears walk on their hind legs. There's video of black bears walking like 100 yards on their hind legs. What makes you believe her? She was very earnest in what she was talking about.

It wasn't sensational in any way at all. What she was telling me was pretty straightforward. And I also believe her because there's black bears in that area. It's incredibly densely wooded. The area that she's talking about was the Pacific Northwest. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's wilderness, man.

I guess Mount Rainier. Is that Mount Rainier that's right outside of Washington? Right outside of Seattle? It's gorgeous outier. Is that Mount Rainier that's right outside of Washington? Right outside of Seattle? It's gorgeous out there. If that big hairy fucker is real, that's the only place he could possibly exist. Because you could absolutely disappear in that forest, man. Yep. That's some dense, dense wilderness.

And filled with food. Filled with food. Filled with wild game. That is definitely not me saying I believe in bigfoot yeah all right you're you're 100 correct though if there was an animal like that that would be the spot it also would be the spot because that's the spot where it would make sense geographically my feeling is what i believe i bet it used to be real because at one point in time there was a thing called gigantopithecus that lived in asia it was as recently as a hundred thousand years ago which is not that long and

that was when the bering strait was connected so asia and the united states you could actually walk from asia to the united states that the land mass was in place and the ice age and was all frozen over so during that time it would have been entirely possible because so many native american cultures have names for that animal they have names for this like man that lives in the forest yeah there's a hundred yeti you know how's the same legend on the other side of the world about some crazy well and it was real right and and then also on top of that thing being real they also know that there was those little hobbit people in the island of Flores. And the theory about that thing is that it's either the most recent one they think that it might have been as recently as 50,000 years ago.

But I think they thought it was like 14,000 years ago until recently. Look at this. That's a bear, dude. That is a bear. Look at that. That's a real legit black bear. So imagine if you saw that. Oh, yeah.

For sure that's Bigfoot. Especially that last little frame. See, when bears hurt their paw, like if they get bitten in their paw and their paw gets infected, they can walk on their back legs. And they can do it for hundreds of yards. So I think she saw that. Just when you thought they couldn't get any scarier. There's a bunch of videos of bears doing that. It's not just that one bear. So there's a lot of evidence

that bears walk like that. So this one lady that I talked to, I bet she saw a black bear that was walking on its hind legs. That's what I bet. It only makes sense. You can't see anything in there anyway. That's the thing about those woods. You lived up there, right? Yeah. You lived up in Seattle? For a minute, yeah. You can't see shit in those woods. No. We used to go,

there's like a little weird Swiss mountain ski town called Leavenworth. I don't know, a buddy of mine, we'd drive up there on our way to Vancouver to go partying.

I know that was like farther east, I think, but it was like just in the middle of nothing, man. Just trees. Right. You could just walk off into it and disappear. Well, Les, when he was camping, he was doing an episode of Survivor Man and he was up in

Alaska and, um, he says that he heard some noise outside of his tent and he barely moved. Like he didn't, he didn't want to move. He wanted to see if he could get to his camera and try to record this and he heard something that sounded like a primate something like made like some primate type noise and then when he uh went to open up his tent and look outside the thing took off took off running And he said it sounded like bipedal footprints, like a large, heavy bipedal thing. The problem is I've heard bears make that kind of sound. I've heard them personally, seen them with my eyes fighting with each other. They go, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

They make like almost like a gorilla sound. A gorilla. And they're, ha, ha, ha, ha. They're attacking each other and they're, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. They're making this crazy noise. It was a mother trying to keep a male bear away from her cubs. And they fought. They fought right in front of us.

Like within 100 yards, I watched them duke it out UFC style. Where were you? Alberta. I was watching it go down. Shit, man. So I've heard bears make like a monkey sound that makes much more practical sense to me than a seven foot tall chewbacca that no one's ever seemed to be able to play eyes or or hands on you know well we got drones now man i wanted to believe so bad that's why the one thing i want to

believe in bigfoot almost as much as aliens as ufo reports aliens and ufos That's the one thing I want to believe in almost as much as aliens. As UFO reports, aliens and UFOs are like the one, that's the one-two punch for what you want to believe in. Man, yeah. Other than love. Well, that too. It's all about love, bro. I don't know.

We don't want to go down that rabbit hole. Yeah. Black holes and infinite multiverses. Well, I, without a doubt, it's kind of egotistical to think. Life out there. Yeah, but, yeah, I guess the question is, why would they fucking care?

Well. Or maybe they do. I mean, this is pretty interesting. I'd watch it, you know. Oh, for sure. I mean, come on, man. We study turtles, you know. Dudes travel to the jungle

to study a fucking butterfly. Some heavy stuff going on on the back of a turtle, Joe Rogan. That's true. Not to demean turtles. Look, if turtles were on the moon, oh my God, we'd be flying jets to visit them every day. Oldest known species on Earth, the out-of-date crocodiles. Really? Whoa.

Yeah, turtles. Been around longer than any other living creature on the planet. They're like nail clippers. They never had to make them any better. It's a perfect design. Yeah, like when I was a kid, nail clippers were exactly the same. They haven't done anything. I mean, they've made better can openers.

They've made better Tupperware. Yeah. They've improved almost every aspect. I guess steak knives are pretty much the same even even the number of uh like the the the shell you know the the you know it's like the symmetrical patterns of the shell there's 13 no matter how big they are small so like a lot of indians believe that that coincided with the 13 lunar cycles of the moon yeah i made a whole album cover all about this shit i was just like me and the guys like how weird can we get with this thing

it's just make the tackiest record cover ever they are a very fascinating creature i mean anytime you see patterns like even like a nautilus shell see these patterns these repeating patterns that the animals have like you know okay well why why is there some sort of a geometric pattern into this animal's design? You know? It's almost fractal, really. Oh, it is, yeah. Well, it's the Fibonacci sequence.

The Fibonacci sequence manifests itself in, like, sunflowers. Like, they say, like, if you look at a pine cone, the Fibonacci sequence is in a pinecone Meaning it's a sequence of numbers like zero and then there's one and then there's one and then there's two and one plus two Then there's three and three plus two is five and then five plus three is eight and it keeps going on and on and on and it's this exponential equation and when you're adding all those things up, that same sequence can be found in the shape of people's faces

and honeycombs and a bunch of different designs like pine cones. There you see Jamie's got some stuff they pull up of it. The Fibonacci numbers in nature. There's this crazy green fruit that's always at my – it might be a vegetable. That's it. What is that fucking thing? That fruit. Broccoli. What what is it romanesque broccoli romanesque broccoli it's like the dmt fruit like when you look at that like that is fractal geometry in fruit form or in vegetable form rather really weird but that's the fibonacci sequence like if you go to the very top and you see how small it is,

see, and then as it tapers down and it gets larger and the numbers all exponentially increase, it's just so fascinating. Tool incorporates a lot of that in the time signatures of their music. Yes.

I got really into that band when I was younger. Do you know that Maynard Keating is going to fight Ronda Rousey in an MMA match? I did not know that. And if he loses, he's getting a sex change. You're bullshitting me?

Of course I am. I'm trying to help spread a rumor. Awesome. I'll show you some pictures afterwards. Is he like a jujitsu guy? Yeah. I believe he's got his purple belt. I'm pretty sure he's got his purple belt.

But he's very dedicated. He's so dedicated, he got a hip replacement and went back to training. Badass. Here it goes. If I run around and pick up a main belt. Look at it. Awesome. He's a fucking character.

I love that dude. You ever met him? Oh, yeah. I hung out with him. Really? He's been on the show a couple times. He's a good dude. He's one of my most.

Great lyricist, man. Yeah. When I lived out there, there was all kinds of music I just discovered that I probably never would have gotten into otherwise and that band I really like had a little phase lyrically speaking I thought it was some of the more cathartic and kind of sardonic stuff I've ever heard really intelligent way of saying things I was never a metal guy he's almost too smart for his own good. He's one of those guys, when you talk to me like this, you might be just in your own way all the time.

Right. So it's one of the reasons why I think he decided to start a wine business. In the middle of nowhere, just like, and his wine is fucking excellent. I don't know if you're a wine person, if you like wine, but Caduceus wine. I just know what I like, and I love it. It's great. He has a bunch of different kinds of wines. But he's a legit wizard when it comes to winemaking.

He really knows his shit inside and out. It's not like some sort of a thing that he lends his name to, you know, like fucking Orson Welles will sell no wine before it's time. No, this is his wine company. Like he has created it. And he's also like figured out a way to cultivate grapes in this very weird spot in Arizona where I don't think anybody was doing it before him. So he had to start the thing from scratch.

Yeah, he did the whole thing from scratch. Didn't that take like years? Yes, he's been doing it for years. He's nuts, man. We've had some long ass conversations about it yeah he's one of the coolest people that i talk to all the time that's ballsy man because i don't i might be wrong but i think you have to bring in a couple harvests and then you won't even know if the grapes are going to be any good yeah that's a

good spot for it so you're putting all this money up. Well, you have to analyze the soil and you have to know what you're doing as far as fertilizing it. There's so many factors involved in how to. I mean, it's an art. It's a crazy art that you wind up eating. You wind up drinking at the very end of it. But creating the taste, it's like the expression of the art instead of an audible thing like a song it becomes a palette thing but it's a very much like the way he creates music he creates this wine and it's a form of art it's like a mass produced not mass produced you know like

coca-cola but it's making more than one bottle he's got several acres and he creates this art and you experience that art. Instead of listening to a CD, you're experiencing that art when you drink his wine. Very fascinating guy, man. They just played in Nashville not so long ago. I was on tour. I probably would have gone. But, yeah, I'd say top five shows of all time in my life,

Tool is probably at least two of those spots. Really? Yeah, dude. Wow. Yeah, a lot i mean it's just they're so incredibly tight live just aesthetically in the presentation and it's sent you know most like big loud metal shows it's just it's like right right it was it was pristine like sound wise and the drummer's a machine yeah danny carey i wouldn't put them in a metal

category maybe i'd be wrong i don't know what you'd call it. It was so unique. I remember hearing it. Even thinking that's very, some complex shit going on, man. Yeah, we're talking about like motivating songs. That riff in the song Prison Sex. Yeah. You know the beginning.

Down, down, down, down, down, down, down the song Prison Sex? Yeah. You know, the beginning, When you're lifting weights and that comes on, you can lift more weights, man. You can lift more weights. You feel stronger. You're like, If you're tired, you're on the elliptical machine, that comes on, you're like, You can fucking push through. I mean, it does something to your body. It energizes you.

It's a real feeling that you get. We don't think of it as a real feeling because you can't put it on a scale. Very visceral music. Yeah, something's happening to you when you listen to a jam that's done correctly. Oh, I mean, you hate to think about that. I think those guys actually experimented with frequencies and a lot of those deep down-pitched tunings and time signatures are very, some very, very, very Eastern and Melodian

time signatures that they're alternating. Yeah. And the off, down beat. It's some heavy shit, man. Heavy shit. Heavy, heavy. They put thought into that music. Well, the one song that they orchestrated

to the Fibonacci sequence. You can totally manipulate human emotions with tones and keys and vibrations. Oh, yeah, man. Well, have you ever fucked around with binaural beats? But you can totally manipulate human emotions with tones and keys and vibrations. Oh, yeah, man. Well, have you ever fucked around with binaural beats? I mean, not for fun or like on record? Either for fun.

I haven't done it either way. But I know that it's real. I mean, I know that people swear by it. It affects your brain waves. There's a reason all these tribes throughout history out in the middle of nowhere are banging on drums when they're doing their thing. Fuck yeah, man. There's Icaros. Icaros.

I don't know how they say it. Icaros. But you play when you do DMT, and the DMT entities dance to the Icaros. I mean, like, it's a part of the thing. Like, when you do them together, then you understand. If you listen to the music independently, you're like, fucking weird music. It but it's weird i'll play some of that do you think that shit's meant for people that hundred percent yeah yeah well this is created by a shaman this this the one that i have on my phone that i play um it is created by a shaman it's by this guy let me see if i I have his homeboy's name in here.

I think his name is actually on the recording itself. Let me find it here. God damn it, I don't have it on this one. I was going to say, do you think it's meant, I mean, other than the people who are naturally from those areas where these things grow out of the ground and occur and they use them to connect with, I don't know, religious level, their spirit animals and things they believe in.

But like the tourists going down there and drinking that shit, how do you feel about that? Well, it's like everything else. You're going to get legit ones and then you're going to get people that realize there's a lot of money and tourists coming out here and taking this wacky shit. And so they figure out how to make it. So you're going to get people that are taking advantage of people. You're going to get people that are doing all sorts of negative shit.

And then you're going to get legit shaman, people that are legitimately involved in the spiritual quest of attaining enlightenment and reaching a neighboring dimension. Like they really believe that they're reaching a neighboring dimension, that they're tapping into something that's around us all the time, but that we don't have access to in a normal state of consciousness. And it's a well of souls that you're tapping into. It's something, I mean, it's real easy to dismiss, especially for someone who's never experienced it. It's real easy to dismiss and say it's all in your imagination. But for someone who has experienced it, it's very difficult to accept.

And it's very difficult for you to say that you know for sure that it's all your imagination if you haven't experienced it. I appreciate from an intelligence standpoint someone's perspective on it that hasn't experienced it, but the reality is until you know what you're talking, until you've actually gone into that thing and know how titanically alien it is, you're really just saying things.

You're just making noises with your mouth you know it's no way there's no way you could know it's not like it's well i had a dream once and it was kind of no no no it's you're not there anymore you go to a different place you experience a different reality more real than what we normally interpret as reality. That's the most fucked up part about it is it's so much crisper and more vibrant and brighter. And then reality itself seems muted in some odd way. It's almost like we're like having sex with a condom on, you know, and a big, thick fucking trash bag condom. And when you pass through to whatever the fuck this other dimension is that filter the the frosted window is removed and you could see it all the fog's gone the clouds are gone and you just

boom get shot through a cannon to the middle of reality and that middle of reality is some strange geometric living environment where there's no um there's no three-dimensional objects that that aren't touching each other everything is connected to everything else like there's a bunch of different things they're constantly alternating all the time but there's no space between anything there's no like space between you and me not in that world it doesn't exist there's no space everything is everything it's all together It's all together and you feel all together like for the first time ever you don't feel like you're sitting in Canoga Park in a chair with a roof over your head and above that roof of the sky and above the sky is the moon You don't feel that when you're in this you feel like you feel down

Infinite you feel to the left and to the right infinite you feel above but you also feel like you're in a room it's and it feels fractal and it's it's fucking crazy so i mean it might all be in your imagination but my take on it has always been even if it is even if you're not going to a well of souls and experiencing god and experiencing purity and wisdom, it's the same exact experience as if you were. So even if it is in your imagination, your imagination has pretty cool, fucking amazing, I mean, it might be that's what you're experiencing. It very well might be. You don't know, and there's no way to tell.

And it's easy to be cynical. It's easy to be dismissive. It's easy to say, oh, come on, these don't know. And there's no way to tell. And it's easy to be cynical. It's easy to be dismissive. It's easy to say, Oh, come on. He's fucking hippies. They think they're experiencing God through some powder that they smoke. You know,

way to go meathead. Yeah. Yeah. You really are. It's really, I mean, it's cute. It's fun to do.

It's easy to dismiss it. But once you do it, there's, there's no dismissing it when you're there. There's no dismissing it. There's no easy explanation. There's no easy anything. Once you're there. There's no dismissing it. There's no easy explanation There's no easy anything once you're there once you're in there you better let go bitch You better let go you better not try to fucking wrap your head around this just breathe and try not to freak out

And with that note ladies and gentlemen What are you doing in town man? I gotta do I Gotta I don't got to do anything. We are getting ready to put a record out. And tomorrow we're taping a live show for a radio station. And then Wednesday we're taping a song for Conan. Oh, beautiful. And then, so just a little quick trip out.

Get to finally get the new band out of rehearsal space and see what's going on. I'm excited it was fun last time I went with you to Conan it was fun man you know those TV things as they go it's always a strange dynamic you know even for performers

because you get there and you do it and you wait and you do it again for TV and you wait and you wait but of all the ones that we've played I think that one maybe it's just because it's in California but there's a far more

mellow laid back vibe I think Conan's a really nice guy the studio space is bigger a lot of the New York ones it's still fun but they're older more tight buildings

and the Union crews they're running it crack tight which may be a better thing to keep your adrenaline up oh yeah you've been sitting around all day and then at 4.30, like, okay, you're on in two minutes. By the way, millions of people are going to watch this.

So when is this going to be on? That I'm not sure. We're taping it because we're out here for the other thing as opposed to waiting until the fall when we're actually here on tour. So we just bring everybody out. We've done it twice. But, yeah, him and Andy, they've been great to us, man. No, they're awesome, man.

He's a great guy. He's a well-known nice guy. Really? Yeah, it just seems like it. You can tell he's doing the show. He's a genuine music lover, too. Listen, man, it's always been fun.

We've got to do this more often. Fuck yeah, Sturgill Simpson. Apparently I'll be coming here every once in a while. Keep it coming! All right, ladies and gentlemen, we'll be back here every once in a while. Keep it coming. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we'll be back tomorrow with Kevin Rose. See you then.

Later. Oh, yeah.