The Joe Rogan Experience - #781 - Kevin Rose

Episode Date: April 5, 2016

Kevin Rose is an Internet entrepreneur who co-founded Revision3, Digg, Pownce, and Milk. He also served as production assistant and co-host at TechTV's The Screen Savers.

What's up man? What's up? Thanks for doing this, appreciate it. Thanks for having me. And thanks for introducing me to your dog, because I have to tell you that that video of you grabbing that raccoon and chucking it down the stairs was easily one of the most gangster things I've ever seen online. I appreciate that.

Is this it? Yeah, this is it. I had to put a little disclaimer up here so that, you know, the animal rights folks wouldn't get pissed off. Yeah. That's, they're going to get pissed off anyway. So right now I hear him crying because there's no audio on the cameras, but he's like just getting mauled by this thing. And you just picked it up and fucking chucked it like a gangster dude. I mean, you didn't just push it away.

You picked it up over your head, went back behind the head. Like you're throwing a medicine ball. Here's another angle. Yeah. This is the best angle over the back of the head and bang. We're talking to Kevin Rose, the founder of dig. I got to say though, it was a little liquid courage. I'd had a couple of glasses of wine and number two, my intention was to go down there and just kick it. Right. But it was on top of my dog. So I'd be punting my dog at the same time. It was tangled. It was tangled. So, I mean, you know, then I grabbed it and it's,

it's greasy and kind of bristly. So, but you know, whatever, it's kind of, it's when it's your baby. I know that sounds weird to say with a dog, but it's just like I thought he was dying. He was howling like he was getting shredded, but with his claws. So I'm thinking my dog is being killed. Did you think it was a coyote? No. You know, we had seen raccoons in the backyard before, and it was just one of those things where they always just kind of run away the second the lights come on.

And this time, I don't know if he had babies. Actually, there were some other raccoons that we saw with him at the same time. So, I don't know. Man, those weird sort of fringe wildlife creatures, like raccoons and coyotes that kind of hang around cities, are so creepy. Yeah, there's a ton in San Francisco. Yeah. Just all over the place at night. They just dig through the trash, basically.

Well, San Francisco, believe it or not, at least the outside edges, has a bit of a mountain lion problem. I've heard that. Yeah. They did this study recently where they checked the digestive tracts of all these mountain lions, and they thought, we're going to find deer and rabbit. No, they found mostly pets. Ugh. Like 50% cats and dogs is what they found.

You don't want to tangle with a mountain lion. That's crazy. Well, it's just weird that they've chosen to exist in the periphery of these cities and sort of feed on these pets. House animals? Yeah. It's too bad. It's not normal, though, that a raccoon attacks a dog like that,

right? Yeah, they typically just take off. That's been our experience with them. And then I proceeded to go on Amazon and buy a trap. And so then I was able to trap one a few days later. And it was evil. I mean, like I went down there just to check out the trap and I saw it from above. And when I got down there, it was just hissing and trying to scratch the cage at me. And, I mean, they're not the friendly ones that you see on YouTube.

Like there's some that are like kind of domesticated where they, people feed them and then they come and you can pet them and whatnot. These, these wild ones are, are just like the, I will cut your throat kind of animals. I had a feral cat for a while and I love cats, but feral cats, it is a completely different experience.

Like mine was a kitten. It was a little baby. Well, I mean, it was really young, like maybe three months old at the most and you couldn't get anywhere near it he'd go near and it would run up the side of the wall tear apart the curtains what did she get away from you just get rid of it or no I kept it I I locked myself in a bedroom with it for a couple days aiming it yeah you'll break it it's not even that I had to break it I just had I locked myself in a bedroom with it for a couple days. Taming it. Yeah. You had to break it.

It's not even that I had to break it. I just had to get it used to me. It was a real weird experience. My friend Lainey, she and her boyfriend lived in this apartment in West Hollywood, like West LA, like Santa Monica area. And there's these feral cats that had had babies underneath the apartment building. And so they're like, oh my God, what are we going to do? What are we going to do?

All right, we have to trap them. And so she knew that I already had two cats. So she's like, do you want a cat? I was like, all right, fuck it. Give me a cat. Yeah. You know? And if you give those to the animal shelter, they'll just terminate them.

They'll kill them. Yeah. It's too bad. Well, it was, it was so hard to get used to this thing, but it would hiss at you. But when you pick it up, it would go. It would like be the loudest purrs. It was so happy that someone was touching it. But then you'd put it down just for a second.

It would run away again. It took forever. And like it took years before it would let anyone else get even close to it. Like hiding under furniture or things like that? Yeah, it would hiss at you and run away from you. I was the only one that could touch it. And even me, I had to go, hey, dude, it's me. You know me, right?

We're cool, right? We're cool. And I'd get close to him, but he would swing at you. He'd definitely bite you. I don't know why about a month ago I was looking up how to break a horse. I just thought that'd be kind of a fun thing. Fuck that, man. Why?

Why not? It would be amazing, the bond you would have. I know thought that'd be kind of a fun thing. Fuck that, man. Why? Why not? It would be amazing. The bond you would have. I know. They'll kick your ass, though. They're so big. That'd be fun, though. Yeah.

That'd be a good weekend project. Get off the computer, go break a horse. I know a bunch of people that have gotten hurt from horses. Yeah. They're falling off horses and broken arms and legs and stuff. I know a dude got kicked by a horse. Oh. Yeah. That could be horse. Oh. Yeah.

That could be death. Oh, yeah. They kill, like, all kinds of animals. Like dogs, like barking dogs. They kick them. They go, That's it. Game over.

Yeah. I mean, you're getting hit by a telephone pole. Those fucking things are giant. Ugh. I mean, it's an animal that can take a 200-pound man and run with it on its back for hours. Right. There's raw power there

i was in montreal and there's this amazing restaurant called joe beef and um they serve horse there and it's one of those places where um i know the owners through anthony bourdain he introduced me to him and so they said just let us cook for you and so we're like okay go ahead man he goes fuck fuck the menu just let us cook for you and so we're like okay go ahead man he goes fuck fuck the menu just let us cook for like horse three ways well that was just one of the things they brought over we didn't know that what it was until it like they set it down they're like this is horse tartar and we're like wait crazy wait a minute what raw horse yeah yeah i've had lamb tartar one time when i was in dubai That was a little funky. It's very fatty. Yeah.

And so it's a lot of like film on your mouth after you get done eating it. You know, like the roof of your mouth, kind of like a little filmy. Not fun. Well, I'm a fan of lamb until I found out what lamb is. It's baby sheep. Yeah. That's what it is. Well, it's adult sheep though too, right?

No, that's mutton. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It's like ve is. Well, it's adult sheep, though, too, right? No, that's mutton. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It's like veal. It's like the veal of the mutton world. Yeah. And I went, oh, yeah. I didn't know it was babies.

Yeah. Well, really young. Yeah. Immature. Hmm. Yeah. That's too bad. It is too bad.

It is tasty. It's the most delicious. Well, that's why when you get lamb chops, it's a very small bone. Interesting. Yeah. You figure we would just assume, right? That's too bad. You just kind of tainted me forever.

Bummed it out. Well, it's really easy for you to digest for some reason. Lamb is a much more digestible meat. Protein-wise? Yeah. It's very good for you. A lot of people feel like it's a more high quality meat closer to like a wild game than say like cows and you know, things along those lines. How do they measure that? It's a good question.

I know they can measure protein content somehow. And they know that like some animals, like I think moose is like the highest protein content like per gram yeah yeah but i think it's also that's probably based on how lean it is too because you would assume that an eight ounce piece of moose would be far less fat than an eight ounce piece of domestic beef right so that's probably how they measure it crazy well it looks different you know like lamb looks different than beef. When you look at it, it's like a redder sort of a, unless it's grass fed beef, grass fed beef, pretty red. Have you tried a bear? Yes. See, that's one I haven't tried, but I've been curious. I've heard

it's pretty oily though. Uh, no, it's not. No. Well, it really depends on how you prepare it in the field and what you do with it. But bear sausage is delicious, and bear backstraps, the loin, is really good grilled. But bear, you have to be really careful because you can get trichinosis. A lot of bears have trichinosis, so you have to make sure it's cooked to 165 degrees. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's like, it's actually- So there's no medium rare bear loin. No, no, no.

Now you're going the other way. The only way you could ever do that is if you got it tested first. You could do that. Like, you'd send it to a lab. Like, you take the bear's tongue and you send it out to a lab and they test it. Or is that a... I think you might have to actually send the actual meat itself or a piece of meat. But if it has trichinosis, it's throughout its whole body.

Is it tough? No. Oh, interesting. No, bears are weird, man. Huh. Their bodies are very mushy. You would think of their bodies like an elk or a deer is a very strong, like they're very muscular, like a horse is. Right.

But a bear is almost like gushy, like when they die and when you pick them up, they're like a fat person. It's weird. Well, they hibernate and they have those big fat stores. I guess that makes sense. But they have what you would, the way you would describe it, like they have a soft body. But the meat is very good. Yeah. It's like a, it's the way I describe it is like a pig fucked a deer.

That's what bear tastes like. Really? Yeah. Because I like pig. Yeah, you would like it. I fucked a deer. If I had some, man, I'm having some delivered

on Thursday. How long are you going to be in town for? I take off tomorrow. Damn it. Next time, I'll bring you some bear sausage.

And I'll have it frozen for you so you can take it back. That's good. It's really good. And it's also one of those animals where my friend Steve Rinella calls them

charismatic megafauna. Where if you say you eat bear, there's a bunch of those animals where my friend Steve Rinella calls them charismatic megafauna. Where if you say you eat bear, there's a bunch of people that have this, oh, this like knee jerk. Right. But it's one of those game animals where it's actually imperative that people hunt them because they don't have any natural predators. So if they don't get hunted, if someone doesn't control the population, they decimate the moose and the deer because they eat all the fawns. Interesting. They eat all the ground nesting birds and they just, and they also eat each other.

So I have a friend that collects butterflies, my friend's wife. And apparently there are places in the world where the butterflies are a serious problem. Like they overtake and eat crops and like decimate everything. And they're these beautiful, like, six seven inch butterflies but she sources them from there where they actually have to kill them otherwise it's going to ruin the whole environment wow yeah so she collects the dead ones the dead ones yeah so she has them like you know up on the wall kind of in

one of those those cases so you can see them yeah and when you first walk in you're like okay asshole like you know because there's like all these beautiful butterflies all over the place. But yeah, apparently that's the deal is you have to just source them. Well, there's a really cool butterfly pavilion in Denver. It's really awesome.

And it's, you go there and when you go inside of it, they have all these misters everywhere and the entire place is just filled with butterflies. San Francisco has one of those as well. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And they land on your head and they're all around you. And when you leave, they have to dust you off

because there's so many butterflies on you. But they die while you're there. I mean, their shelf life or their life is very short. So they die constantly. You find them dead all throughout the place. Not that anybody killed them, they just die of old age. We watched a couple of them just sit down on a leaf. And then all of a sudden, they're like, that's it.

We're good. Wow. They're only good. I mean, how long does a butterfly live? Does it say how long a butterfly lives? It's a super zen moment. Let's guess. I say a butterfly lives a week.

Yeah, I think a week sounds about right. Probably a little less. A week? I think so. I'm looking. You say a week? Yeah, I'd say a little less than that. They're so amazing looking.

It's such a strange thing that nature can create all of these beautiful designs and shapes and just different forms of life, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Especially in bug form. You know, bugs are some of the most. I think we entirely take bugs for granted. The idea of them, they're so common. What does it say? A month.

Oh. They last a month. Interesting. Have you done any of that bug protein powder? Yes, I have. Have you done the cricket stuff that Tim Ferriss is into? Mm-hmm. Do you like that?

I like bugs. I mean, I really think that's probably because of my time on Fear Factor, I got super used to people eating bugs, but I like the idea of it because it that's probably because of my time on Fear Factor, I got super used to people eating bugs. But I like the idea of it because it is like probably one of the most ethical proteins. Like it's the easiest to source. It needs very little like land and ground. And for whatever reason, even vegans, most vegans don't have a problem with you eating bugs. Like most vegans will slap a mosquito.

Right. You know, they're not going to let some mosquito just bugs. Like most vegans will slap a mosquito. Right. You know, they're not going to let some mosquito just vampire off. Right. They will kill a mosquito. So we have this hierarchy of life. You know, plant life is at the lowest. You're allowed to kill and eat plants. Right.

And then it gets up to weird animals like bear. Well, you've heard of fruitarians. Those are even more extreme than just the general plants. They only eat fallen fruit. Yeah, I had an aunt that was a fruitarian. Oh, God, that's scary. She was crazy. Was she in bad shape? Cause they don't get a lot of essential stuff. We haven't talked in a long, long time, but she was, she was crazy when I was a little kid. She was a vegetarian when I was, um, I think I was like seven, seven or eight.

And was she only fallen fruit, like fruit that has fallen off the tree? Because that's the extreme version of that. I think she probably picked it. I didn't really know her very well, and she wasn't very close even to her own children. She'd have her on. She's completely crazy. I don't think she'd be into it. She's probably, I don't even know if she's around anymore.

She's probably in her late 60s at this point. Yeah. Yeah. But she was a nutty hippie from's probably in her late 60s at this point yeah yeah but she was she was a nutty hippie from you know the 60s had some kids had my cousins just lost her fucking mind yeah rutarians man yeah she was deep in the the world of plants but she she wasn't healthy like mentally or physically so So it wasn't like someone that would go, wow, maybe that's the way to go. It was like, Oh, look at this crazy bitch.

You know, like she didn't even like her kids. Like she didn't have a good relationship with her own children. It's like, how am I going to take you seriously about fucking fruit? Right. How will you be nice to people? Crazy bitch. I mean, there's certain, I think we've all looked at like vegetarians have been like seeing someone really healthy and thought well you're glowing yeah like i would like also like to glow like yeah i could see myself doing that but yeah the fruit stuff's a little too far well before i started hunting i had two thoughts in mind one this was going to turn me into a vegan or two i would become a hunter so those are the two things that i went into it with so i i think there's a lot of health benefits to eating a lot of vegetables.

I think everybody agrees on that. Sure, no doubt. It's just the real issue is it becomes sort of a weird religion. It becomes almost like an ideology, like a cult. There's no variables. It's like eating animals is evil and animals are sentient beings. Despite what they do to each other, despite the fact they're – It's like eating animals is evil and animals are sentient beings. And this, despite what they do to each other,

despite the fact they're like, I had a friend who's a vegan. We had this conversation and I said, so no animals should be killed ever. He's like, no. Okay. Okay. I have two words for you.

Wild pigs. What do you do? Yeah. And he's like, well, they have to be controlled somehow. I go, how the fuck are you going to do that?

You have hundreds of millions of acres and you have wild pigs. The amount of wild pigs in this country is staggering yeah, not only is it staggering It's exploding and there's play there's a highway that they opened up in Texas And they had built this highway, and then they opened it up one night and then that one night They open they had like 40 car accidents with pigs. That's crazy Oh, but Texas is out of now. There's a drama that you can get as pets. Pigs are taking over. Nano pigs? Have you seen the nano pigs? No. Oh, they're little tiny pet pigs. They're like the size

of a small toy poodle. Didn't they always have those? Like, didn't... I think they've been around for a while, but they're becoming very popular, especially here in L.A. I can't believe you haven't seen them in L.A. People walk them like dogs. You would think that I would, like, because I live out here, that I would understand because i live out here that i would understand

this place yeah but my interaction with la is going to the comedy store in the improv going to the comedy clubs going to where i buy food going to my neighborhood and being with my friends and going to the gym like whatever wherever i work out that's pretty do you enjoy the city then or i think there's too many people here yeah I just think, oh look at this little cute little fucker. They're cute little bastards. Look at that little guy. Well that's a baby though. I mean that's unquestionably.

That's how you get them though. Wow, and how big do they get when they're full grown? I think just like toy poodle size. I bet they're great pets. Apparently they're really smart. Look at that, little guitars. Well, I don't think that's real. They entertain you, apparently.

Hammocks for them. What a little cutie. They're very cute. But again, it's like there's a big goddamn difference between a domesticated pig that you raise yourself that becomes like a pet and a wild pig. Wild pigs are fucking scary. We were in this ranch, this Tohon Ranch. We were hunting wild pigs. We were walking down this road, and it was the first time I had any contact with them.

I didn't see them. I heard them. And they were in this tall grass, and they were maybe like 20 yards from us, and they were fighting. So we're walking down this road. We're like tiptoeing down this road, and we hear,

and I'm like, this is like some Lord of the Rings shit man Do they have like the full tusks and everything? So these are boars basically Well that's where it's weird See a pig is something called Suscrafa I think that's how you say it And that genus is

They're all the same thing They're like dogs so they can breed with each other And they're the same animal Which which means, this is a weird thing about pigs. If you take a domestic pig, a regular pig, a pink pig, and you leave them out in the wild, they transform into that pig. Really? Yes. Will they grow tusks and everything?

They grow tusks. Interesting. Their nose extends. Their body fur gets thicker and more dense. And it happens really quickly. I believe the transformation starts to take place within six weeks. So within six weeks of being wild and out in the wild having to fend for itself, not having food given to it, its body starts to transform.

It's a very strange animal. Yeah. So do they know how to fend for themselves and eat and all that? I think instincts take over. They get desperado. I mean, whatever instincts are still left in their genes. Their fasting and ketosis brings it out of them. Yeah.

Well, they eat a lot of carbs, I think, right? But they'll eat everything. I mean, that's the thing about, again, ground nesting birds get decimated. Everything in front of them. I mean, and for agriculture for places where they have farms they're absolutely devastating that cost millions and millions of dollars worth of damage but the the idea that you can leave all animals alone like well you won't be able to go outside you'll have

a very dangerous environment right like the mountain lion issue is a big issue in California you know and right now it's pretty much under control kinda there's good there's good things to it, too, though. One of the good things to it is that we don't have deer ticks. We don't have a lot of ticks out here like they do on the East Coast. Because the East Coast doesn't have mountain lions. Right. So because of that, and they don't have nearly as many coyotes.

And see, coyotes can't really take out a full-size deer. They can really fuck up the fawns and they kill a lot of the babies. But the big deers can kind of fend off a coyote. But they can't fend off a mountain lion. Gotcha. And mountain lions jack so many deer that we don't have problems with like Lyme disease out here. Right. Like Lyme disease is a huge problem on the East Coast.

I had a friend that got it here a couple years ago. Out here? Not fun. No, East Coast. East Coast, yeah. East Coast is real bad. There was some estimate that there was something in the Hudson Valley where they did a test of all these different ticks, and some ungodly percentage had Lyme disease. More than 50% of the ticks had Lyme disease, which is terrifying.

Yeah, tall socks. And it's what's fucking devastating to your immune system. It really wrecks your body. And some people get it and they, they keep it forever. I mean, it just fucks with their system forever. Yeah.

I had a buddy that had to go on hardcore antibiotics right away. The second you get diagnosed with it and you have to do cycles of those to try and get it out. It's really brutal. Well, I have a friend who got it and he brought his son, his son got it too. And he brought his son to the doctor, and it was a shitty doctor.

The doctor didn't want to believe that the kid had Lyme disease. And then all of a sudden the kid's face went palsy. He had Bell's palsy where his mouth started drooling and his lips wouldn't move. Did that come back? Yes. Okay. But he had to go on hardcore antibiotics, intravenous antibiotics. And they had to do it for a long time, like a month of hardcore antibiotics.

That's brutal. Well, it's a scary disease, man, because it also is related to, there's that, what is it called, Morgellons disease, which for a long time they thought Morgellons might be some sort of a psychosomatic disorder where people believe they had like fibers going out of their skin and they're itching themselves constantly. And they would, they would, um, bring these fibers to doctors to examine. They said, my body's growing these fibers. Weird. Yeah. But it wasn't really going on. What was going on was that the fibers were like carpet fibers and things that were stuck to their skin. And so I interviewed this guy who was a Morgellons sufferer, and he was also a doctor, so it was kind of fascinating

to get his perspective on it. And he was very frustrated by the way the medical establishment treats this disease because they were treating it like it's like a completely psychological disorder. And he's like, I don't think so. He goes, I think there's a neurotoxicity to this disease. And that one of the things about this disease was a vast majority of the people who had Morgellons also had Lyme disease. So what he thinks, and there's not enough people that have it, but what he thinks is Lyme disease affects your brain.

There's some sort of neurotoxicity to this Lyme disease when it gets to some people. The other thing he said, when you get Lyme disease, like you have a tick that gives you this disease and the tick carries it in his body and gives it to you. He goes, it's not like it's giving it to you in a syringe and it's a pure form of this disease. He's like, you're getting a variety of different pathogens along with that. And when he was describing it to me, I was like, oh, this totally makes sense. It's probably just a very small sample size of people who have this problem. But the people who have it, man, they get fucking crazy.

So do you go out to the East Coast at all then? Do you avoid all the ticks? No, I go, but I'll spray stuff. There's clothing that they've designed for people that are in those areas that you make sure. Like socks up to the belt line kind of thing? Yeah, but you can get bit even through socks. It's really pants and boot gaiters and all these different things to make sure that they don't get in the crevices. And if you come in contact with an animal that has it, you have to be really careful

that make sure those ticks don't come off and get onto you. And you gotta be careful. It's no joke. Yeah. That's not fun. But it's just so scary because it fucks with your immune system. And it really, depending upon how bad you get it and who you are and what your makeup is, you know, some people just have a really nasty, averse reaction to it. As a matter of fact, my friend's dad got it from a vaccine. They used to give a vaccine for Lyme disease and they don't do it anymore. Because it could turn into full blown. That's the stuff you always worry about. Yeah. Well, it's one of those things like, you know, it's like the people that get the flu shot every once in a while, someone comes down with a full blown flu. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that was

always the argument about vaccines, too. Like, people were always saying, you know, there's always this thing like, hey, vaccines give people autism. Vaccines do this. And then there's the other camp that says vaccines are harmless. Well, it's never harmless to shoot a chemical in your body. It's harmless the vast majority of the time. It's beneficial the vast majority of the time. It's beneficial the vast majority of the time right

But if you're one of those one out of a thousand people There's not that much comfort and the fact that your brain gets fucking fried because they tried some Experimental fucking weird vaccine on you. Do you do any of that stuff? Do you do any of the flu shots every year? No, no, I don't do flu shots, but I did it this year and I came down with the flu. Oh, I got decimated I'm one of those guys that has a really strong immune system until I don't. And then I'm like out for like a month, you know, like I'm like, you know, licking my fingers all the time. And like, you know, when you just feel invincible, like I haven't gotten sick for like, you know,

eight, 10 months and I don't wash my hands sometimes and it's disgusting. But then I just went down hard this year. Well, there's so many factors, right? It's like health, sleep, diet. I think I was doing too much cold therapy stuff. Cold therapy, like Wim Hof stuff? Yeah, Wim Hof stuff. Too much? Too much. I was talking to Rhonda Patrick, who you've had on the show before about this, and just too many stressors, because that's a stressor. You have green tea as a stressor,

you have turmeric as a stressor, you have that's a stressor. You know, you have green tea is a stressor. You have turmeric is a stressor. You have exercise is a stressor. And if you're doing that every single day, and I was doing the cold stuff, you know, five, six days a week. Whoa. Along with, I'm not talking cryo, but like cold, ice cold showers. And then along with exercising and interval training and everything else. But your ice cold showers, you're Northern California, right?

Yeah. That's, well, this is actually in New York, so, but they were really cool. My gym has a freeze. I don't know why, but there's showers when you turn to the cold setting. I'm lucky. At home, I don't have that. I go to the gym and on the cold setting, I put my hands, uh, you know, as I'm washing my hair, uh, under the cold shower and my hands are numb within 45 seconds. Like it's really, really cold. Jesus. Well, New York has some

fucking severe cold winter and you get that cold water in the winter. That's real cold water. Oh, I love it. People talk about cold water, California. I'm like, it's kind of cold. Right. Unless you go into a glacier river. Yeah. I'm so bummed when I come out here cause I go and I stay at a hotel or something, and the first thing I do when I get in the hotel is turn on cold setting in the shower just to see what we're dealing with. And it's all weak. You have to go do proper cryo if you want to do that.

Well, it's great after yoga in the winter. You can actually get pretty cold water here in January in the winter. But after a hot yoga class it feels unbelievably cold yeah like you can't breathe it's like probably more of a reaction even than cryo oh interesting was cryo's weird because it's cold as fuck but it's dry right so you get in there and there's something that's what they talk about the desert they're like it's a dry heat like you know it's a dry cryo well that's California'sia's heat too in comparison to like texas like have you ever been to houston in july oh yeah yeah it's brutal it's like trying to breathe through it's like you're getting waterboarded

right like non-stop yeah it's like a hot fucking wet blanket on your face but um the there's there's a definite difference in that cold that's where you're not getting wet like wim hof actually prefers ice baths. Right. He thinks the ice baths are better for you and the way he describes it, better for your spirit. Yeah, I've done the ice baths a few times. That was week 10 for me on his course. I went and got 10 bags of ice from the corner store, filled up my bathtub with cold water,

and then put all 10 bags of ice in there uh submerged myself up to my neck and did that for 15 minutes wow did you get anything out of it you know i will say i am a i'm a huge believer in just cryo and cold therapy in general in that um i would my mood is elevated it's more than anything else it's my mood yeah i'm I find myself like I'm generally a really happy guy. Like, you know, we all have our ups and downs, as it were. But this kind of just raises the bar an additional, I would say, like 20%. Yeah. And so you have a higher high, if that makes sense.

You're not always going to stay up pegged up there and be like a whole new person. But it's just different. It's amazing. It's been a game changer for me. And so I've gotten really deep on the research side. Different than Rhonda. Rhonda goes the science route. I go into the history.

So I've been researching people that have done this for hundreds of years now and their protocols and what they've done. What have you found? I'm not ready to release it yet. Oh, how dare you? You tease. No, I've been doing a ton of research. I'm either going to put out like a big PDF on it or a little mini e-book or something that I'll give away. I don't know.

So you can't give us a taste? Well, a good taste would be, let me think here. There's some people in Russia that have done it for a long time, hundreds of years, and I got a hold of their original documents and had them translated so I could figure out what the protocol is. Well, they do banya and then freezing water. That's right. Yeah. Fedor Emelianenko, probably the greatest heavyweight UFC or MMA, rather, fighter of all time. He was a pride heavyweight champion. You know who he is?

No. That was his thing. He would do the banya when they beat each other with those eucalyptic branches. Right. Right. I've done that a ton of times. Whacked by the branches. I haven't done the branches, but I've watched it being done.

It's fascinating. It looks cool. It does look cool. I bet it would be refreshing. I mean, they're not hurting each other. No, they just slap you around with some branches. And they climb from the hot sauna, they climb into the water. I always thought of it as just like something that makes you feel a little bit better, but when you

read and listen to Rhonda and her research on sauna, and 40% less mortality across the board from all factors, whether it's cancer, disease, heart attack, all these different things. You're like, what? 40% drop in mortality? Like, that's incredible. And then she talks about the actual physical measurable responses to sauna, to extreme heat, heat shock proteins, and then also cold shock proteins. You realize like, oh, there's something really going on here. Yeah, absolutely.

And you can feel it after a couple of weeks. For me, I've had friends do one and they're like, it's too cold. I can't do this. And I'm like, you don't understand. It's not about just that one time. I don't know about for you, but it was about week two to week three, where all of a sudden I just woke up and I'm like, wait a second. I feel like I'm 16 again.

Or, you know, just like a little bit, my mood was just crazy good. Well, what did she call it? Norepinephrine. Norepinephrine. Norepinephrine. That's a weird word. Norepinephrine. Norepinephrine.

Norepinephrine. Norepinephrine. Yeah. That stuff, that feeling that you get is very tangible. It's like a drug. that stuff, that feeling that you get is very tangible. It's like a drug. It's almost like getting a little, just a tiny taste of pot.

Just a little, just a little. That's actually how I brought that up in our podcast that I did with her. It's like you're at a concert and you have like a little hitter and then you're like, well, okay, all right. Music's a little bit better. Just a little. Yeah. Yeah, it does.

It makes the sun feel better. It just, it does. It makes the sun feel better. It's great. And also for aches and pains and for someone who trains a lot, the measurable effect that they found as far as reducing the inflammatory markers in the blood, you can feel that. You can absolutely feel the response to that when you do it a week or two in a row. Yeah, that's right. So do you know that cold therapy used to be like it was used as a treatment for insanity? Did you know that back in the day? How'd they do that? So Van Gogh, when he cut his ear off and they put him in an insane asylum, they forced him to do two weekly, two hour long sessions of cold therapy. And he writes about it. This is a little teaser of some of the research I've been doing. He writes about it in his letters to friends. And so his letters are documented online and you can find the Van Gogh letters. And then I've dug into all of his letters and found any mention of cold therapy and what it's

done to his mood. It's fascinating. And what was he saying? He was just saying that, yeah, I mean, you could look it up. He was just saying that he was a big believer and he's feeling so much better. And then I found pictures of the tub that they used to use. So what they would do is you would lay down in a bathtub and they would put this like wood cover over the tub, but just with your head sticking out. So almost like a guillotine kind of thing. It's a guillotine.

What's the one where they chop your head off? That's guillotine. Okay. And so they have his head sticking out and then they would just pour ice cold water through the tub for two hours, twice a week. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

It's a, you can't do anything. You're stuck there. And they would do this to treat insanity and it worked. And then of course drugs came along and everything else, and then all this just gets forgotten. But that's one example. Another one is I found some monks out in Japan

that study this form of meditation and Buddhism where they sit underneath waterfalls, ice-cold waterfalls, and they meditate. And I found their chants and all that that go along with that. So that's something I'm going to put in this document as well. Do you know who Hickson Gracie is? That sounds familiar. Hickson Gracie is...

Not the grappler Gracie. Yes. Hoist Gracie is the guy who won the original UFCs, but he had his brother. His brother Hickson is almost like a mythical creature in the world of martial arts because he's universally hailed as the greatest jiu-jitsu fighter of all time okay versely by this is the

guy they call like the Michael Jordan of of jiu-jitsu yeah because like jiu-jitsu is one of those things where there's so many good guys it's so hard to figure out who's the best like this guy might beat that guy and then next year that guy can beat this guy but this is Hickson he's also a legit yogi like he practices yoga on a regular about this guy he he's amazing and you know he's he's actually been on the podcast too and i had a chance to talk to him that's the buffest yogi ever he was very buff especially when he was young well he was a mixed martial arts champion a brazilian jiu-jitsu champion but he was also the champion he was in in that movie, The Hulk. He was the guy who was teaching Ed Norton how to control his calm, control his anger to try to keep him from turning into the Hulk. But there's this documentary

called Choke, and it documents Hickson competing in the 1994 Japan Valley Tudor. He went over to, was it 96? Maybe 96. I don't remember what year it was. But he went over to Japan and competed in this big mixed martial arts tournament. And when he was over there, part of the time that he spent was climbing into these freezing cold rivers and getting under these waterfalls and meditating. Oh, that's awesome. And there's a video of him doing it. And his other family members try to do it. They get in the water for a couple seconds.

They're like, fuck this. Right. Ah! There he is. He's in there doing these yogi breathing exercises. That's what Wim teaches, a lot of that breathing to go along with. You have to be really, really careful. There's been people that have passed out doing the breathing exercises because they're so deep. And it's really like giving you all that oxygen.

I put an oxygen meter on my finger when I do the breathing exercises. And I take it. I hover right around 98. Like no one's ever really at 100 all the time. Some people, weird people are, but I can bring myself up to a hundred percent. What is it measuring? The oxygen, the level in your blood. Just pure oxygen?

Yeah. It's like a, you know, those little meters that they clip on you when you go to a doctor's office, you can buy those for $15 on Amazon. So, but how's it, was it tapping into your blood somehow? Like how is it measuring? It's a little led light that it shoots into your finger. And through looking at the led through finger, like the same way, like your phone can measure your heart rate, right? So this does heart rate along with a blood oxygen level. How the fuck does it know your blood oxygen level? I think magic and things. God damn, this is what a wonderful world we live in. And it's available on Amazon Prime for $15.

Not only is it amazing, it's also, we'll be here in one hour if you use Postmates. I'm fucking addicted to one-clicking. I'm so addicted. That is the fall of Western civilization. The people that run those UPS stores that get packages delivered to them and shit like that, they did not know what they were signing up for when one-clicking came around. Their suicide rates have to be just like through the roof. Like you got to be hating life.

I guess. Maybe they're just really into packages and they love it. I would love that someone has like a package fetish. There's like, fuck yeah, more Amazons coming. People are into weird shit. They are into weird shit. I mean, I don't think there's ever one thing that people have been into where I was like, ah, I can't believe it.

You know how there's those people that get into video games like Farmville and all that, and they spend like hundreds of thousands? There has to be the equivalent on Amazon, right? Oh, yeah. There have to be people that just want to click the shit out of Amazon every single day. Well, when my grandfather was dying, my grandfather, when he was really old, after my grandmother died in particular, he was like super depressed, and he got addicted to catalogs. Oh, it's really sad. Yeah. old, after my grandmother died in particular, he was like super depressed and he got addicted to catalogs. Oh, it's really sad. Yeah.

They, they like my dad, uh, before he passed away, um, he started, you know, as he was getting into his seventies, started doing just more QVC shopping and just stuff to shows up. And you're just like, dad, why'd you buy that? And granted, I mean, he always had, you always get cool stuff. I was always like, oh, that's a cool way to slice tomatoes or whatever it may be that showed up. But it was like, you don't need it. And I think old people, they just, as their brain starts to go, they just, they become more susceptible to that kind of stuff and just buy everything. Yeah, that's why those late night televangelists are so dangerous.

Super dangerous. They're preying on people with faulty mechanisms. Right. And then they call in and donate $100 or whatever, and they think they're going to save their child from diabetes or who knows. Well, they found a method a few years back that was really troubling. And what it was is they would prey on the poorest of poor people. And what they would explain is they would say, I know you don't have any money. I know your bills are due. I know that you need this

money. But if you send that money, God will multiply that money tenfold. And they'd have all these people that would say, my rent was due. My car payment, they were going to repossess my car, but I sent a hundred dollars. And the whole audience is clapping and cheering. I gave a hundred dollars to God. And then all of a sudden I hit that lottery ticket and that lottery ticket I said, good Lord, it's $500. It's true. Jesus gave me $500. And everybody's clapping and cheering. And then you go on to another story. Meanwhile, this guy's got a fucking

$5,000 suit on. He's probably driving a Bentley. It's dark. Because they're preying on people that have just faulty mechanisms. Their brain is not working right. Right. They're at their lowest possible point, and then you're just kicking them while they're down. It's really, really sad.

The old ones are worried about death. I mean, death is imminent. It's on the way. Their body's failing. And as the body's failing, here's some guy on television that's saying a bunch of things that, you know, and I think there's like

sort of a window of cognitive function that starts to close, and it's very hard to perceive. And you're on the outside. Right. You have to kind of talk to them a lot to see, oh, your ability to think is really compromised right now. Right. But they talk, and they seem fairly normal. Right. But if you're around them a lot lot then you kind of get the full picture

What's going on and those those types of people like man? That's what they're gonna prey on yeah I mean it happens This is I don't know if you ever get forwarded those email chains that like people send around my mom is obsessed with this kind Of stuff in her in her 70s, and it's just like you know people saying that something is a fact Especially in politics as well when it's just made up. And they're just like, well, I got it in email, and it said that it was from CNN. I'm like, mom, did you click the link?

Did it actually take you to CNN? Did it actually say that in the article? It's just difficult because they believe anything that is on the internet. Yeah, and there's also, I mean, obviously confirmation bias. Like you could always find a forum that will tell you that the world is flat. There's a whole flat earth community out there. Right. They openly mock me.

They're angry at me. Are you serious? Oh, yeah. They've made videos. How big is the flat earth community? Look, if you stop and think about the sheer numbers of people. Right. Just in this country.

Just let's go with America. There's 300 million people in this country plus, right? At least one out of 100 is a fucking idiot right at least so you have three million fucking idiots Just in this country and out of those fucking idiots you can tell I have a friend of thinks the earth is flat That really fully believe max eberly. I'm talking to you, bitch He's crazy. He's a great guy great pool player professional pool player thinks the fucking world is flat he was he was arguing with my friend justin about whether earth was flat i go max there's all these fucking pictures he goes i think those pictures have been fake so everyone's in on

it from the beginning of time since they started taking pictures of planets all those planets the sun the moon jupiter all that shit just happens to be around and you're not buying it holy shit yeah holy shit you just have to feel compassion for those people then right it's flat it's circular but it's flat something's not right upstairs well i think people love to be the person to discover i think there's like a there's something going on in the human brain where the human brain has always been curious and we're trying to innovate and there's like there's like a part of the brain that has this insatiable desire to create better things and to innovate and to constantly find a better way well in that we're always constantly searching for secrets as well oh well if you do that then it works hey you take this flint and

you bang it against this steel, you can make a fire. So we find these things. And then we're always trying to find the things that people are hiding. Like, what are they hiding from us? Right. What kind of secrets? Then you find out about some secrets that are true. Right.

And some conspiracies that absolutely do exist, whether it's William Randolph Hearst, whether it's fucking Rockefeller trying to keep alcohol from being legal because he wants to protect the gasoline market. All these real conspiracies that you find out, and they fuel the speculation. And then they want to be the one that tells you that the sky is falling. Right. They want to be the one. There's no way around that.

It's just going to happen until the end of days. It's fascinating, though. It's a weird aspect of people. But I bet you believe in a few of those as well. I mean, what is your take on UFOs? Fascinating, though. It's a weird aspect of people. Well, it's also... But I bet you believe in a few of those as well. I mean, like, what is your take on UFOs? I don't think it's impossible that we have been visited, but I see no evidence. You don't think it's impossible.

Yeah. So you do think it's possible. I think it's absolutely possible that we could have been visited by a life form from another planet at one point in time. But there's no evidence. Zero. Zero. So you don't think any of the photos, any of the videos, those objects moving? No.

How did they? My question is like- I've seen some objects that move in space that are fascinating. Yeah, is that weird? Yeah. Like so fast, and you're like, how did that jump across? I mean, that's amazing to me. I don't know what that is.

But there's also some weird shit that absolutely exists that they can prove on Earth, like ball lightning. Have you ever seen ball lightning? No. This video's a ball lightning. Ball lightning is like some weird phenomenon where lightning, instead of coming in a down to the ground, it can fly around like a ball.

Weird. Yeah. Yeah. So that's probably half of the videos. A good percentage. Yeah. There's a lot of them that are just stars where people are just retarded. Right. They look, oh, I saw it move! Yeah, I mean, there's been fighter pilots that that are just stars where people are just retarded right and they look I saw it move Yeah, I mean there's been fighter pilots that have launched missiles at stars. Yeah Planets or whatever it's like it was something about that Venus You know people yeah the Venus is a spaceship and I think there's there's also absolutely been experimental aircrafts

right when we were filming fear factor in Way out in the middle of the desert Palmdale, which is near Edwards Air Force Base. Sure. And they had the stealth bombers. It was like right after September 11th. And you watch those things fly over. You swear to God you're in Star Wars. Yeah. Like, okay, that's a spaceship. Darth Vader lives on that. Right. He's flying that. Like, this is not a person in there because it looks like a starship. I've spent a lot of time out in the desert. I used to work at the Nevada test site out by Area 51. You did?

Way back in 2000. What did you do out there? Well, I was into technology, and this was kind of when I was studying computer science. And so I was working out there, pretty low-level job, but I had to bounce around between the different areas. So there's the test site is divided into, you know, 50 plus areas. Right. And, um, like groom Lake, like that area, groom Lake is one of them. That's area 51. That's the best known, but there's so many other areas like, and there's different things on every plot of land. And so, um, there's one called a beefF, which is the Big Explosive Experimental Facility. There's a lot of subcritical nuclear testing that's done underground.

So it doesn't break any treaties, but they can figure out the yield based on the tests that they do. So they can still do kind of nuclear tests, but it's not actually producing. But they still close off all the areas when they do it. And then there's every three-letter agency you can imagine rents out a piece of the test site to do tests and experiments. So it was my job to set up all the, at the time, novel networking equipment between areas so that they could talk to each other. What year was this? 2000. Just before that, 99, 98, 98, 99, 2000. And what was the year where they had to admit that that was actually a base because they

had to expand the area that was forbidden to trespass on? Yeah, I'm not sure what year. I think it was in the 90s because they had denied it forever. They did. And they denied it when I was there. Yeah? But it was so obvious. Like, you would go into the...

It was weird because they were just... You would go into the... Well, first of all, you couldn't go to any, any area unless you had a reason to be there. And you also had to have a proper security clearance. So I had what was called a queue clearance. And then even if I had, which was top secret, but even if I had top secret, unless I had a request, and then if I went into an area that had sensitive information, I would also have to be escorted at the same time. Wow. But some of the areas that weren't really classified, they were just secret areas, like the power facility, for example.

You'd walk in and they'd have, they'd show power clearly going to Groom Lake. Like, you could see the line going straight up to Groom Lake, but they would say it didn't exist. But it would show the line going up there, and it's just like, that's so silly. Like, why would you even show that if that was the case? You know?

Well, I think they probably feel like no one can go there. So what are you going to do? Right. Just, it's easier to deny it, go fuck off. It's not real. Yes. The air force took that over, um, when I was there. So the air force was running it.

Um, it was department of energy, which handles all of our nuclear program. Uh, but then the Air Force. And then there's another, there's extra guard gates before you get there. So when you head into Mercury, Nevada, you get through one guard gate, which is show your badge. Guard comes on the bus, touches your badge, looks at your ID, all that good stuff. Touches it. Touches it. Why do they touch it?

Has to physically touch it. I don't know. It was just a thing. It was a requirement. They wanted to feel that it was real because it was just like laminated a certain way. So I don't know why they had to touch it. And then once you get through the front gate there, then to go into further areas, you could drive out there, but there'd be other gates if there was secret information going on between where you left and where you were headed.

So if you want to get to Groom Lake, there was one other guard station just outside of the Sedan Crater. If you look up Sedan Crater on Google, there's this massive crater that was done via nuclear tests. And right past that is one more guard station. So it's severely compartmentalized. Oh, absolutely. Wow. And then an area can go dark,

and then Department of Defense can come in and take it over and just do tests there for three months, and then it's dark again, and they just destroy everything they were working on. Now, like this massive crater from the nuclear test? They're all over the place. The test site is just filled with craters. Fucking craters.

That's so crazy. Yeah. And you can stand on the edge of there. They have a little platform there. It's kind of fun. Well, they did some pretty extensive nuclear tests out there. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

We had to wear a little dosometer around our necks. To make sure you're okay? Well, it wasn't real time, sadly. So you would send it in and get it analyzed afterwards. They'd tell you how much radiation exposure you had. Oh, fucking Christ. But, you know, we were all going in. It was so mellow back then.

It had already kind of all cleared out. That's so spooky, though. It is spooky. That there's all these craters all over the place where they were just like, what happens when we do this? And you can just drive up to the edge. Yeah. Drive up to the edge, get out. Now, when you were there, was there anything that made you

think that the government had any knowledge of extraterrestrial aircrafts? Was there any whispers of it? Was there... Uh... There was whispers of it? There was whispers of a few things, but they weren't like ET related stuff. It was just

government projects, like other secret test projects that were going on. So you think that's what a lot of people were seeing when they're talking about unidentified flying objects? I truly believe, even though I never heard of anything, but I had, I don't know. There was friends that we had that worked out in those areas.

And I think they were experimenting just based on the skill sets that were going out there on kind of anti-gravity related stuff. So that's, that's kind of what. Groom Lake wasn't being used at that point in time for any more research and development. I think all that had been – I think it was all kind of underground because a lot of that is underground. It's an underground base as well. So there's hangars out there and there's a really long runway. But that was all for testing that was done in like the 70s and 80s that were done out there. Fuck, man.

I would love to go see what an underground base looks like. Yeah, that would be crazy. It must be state of the art. You would think that, but a lot of this is underfunded stuff. Really? I went underground one time in one of the areas, and they make you take this respirator training before you go underneath there,

so you have to know how to use these emergency packs in case. There's no air? In case there's no air. First of all, it's really cold. It gets really cold immediately as you start to go underground. Like how cold? Like, you know, where I was wearing a jacket like it was it was 40 i don't know it was so long ago but it was it was where i had to wear like a lightweight jacket like a meat locker or like a refrigerator well it was once we got down in there it was kind of during the when you go down the the shaft that was that was when it was chilly. But once we got in there, it was a little bit

more climate controlled. But they go down underneath the ground to do some of these experiments. And so that's part of the reason why I had to go down there. The other big thing out there is really awesome. It's called the DAFT, the Device Assembly Facility, DAFT. You can Google that one as well. This is where they assemble nuclear weapons in the United States, which is just nuts. So that was another fun one to check out. That was a super, super guarded facility. That one was extremely hard to get into. So these underground bases are underfunded.

Well, this one in particular was used for experiments, so it wasn't like a permanent thing. A lot of these, so for example, when they did the subcritical nuclear test, they would have you go all the way underground. They'd set up all the test equipment. They would seal it with concrete. They would detonate it. And then they would close off the hole. So it was always locked down in just underneath there. And so that's,

that's kind of just underground forever. That sounds like such a crazy way to do it. I mean, they just didn't have the funds or, you know, they're not going to go in there and dig up a bunch of busted equipment that already detonated. So it's like. Well, it seems like a halfway thought out idea.

Like someone goes, well, how are we going to contain the explosion? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. This is what we're going to do. We're going to blow it up and we're going to seal it off. Okay.

And then they just went with it. Like nobody came along and go, hey, fuckhead, you can't do that. No. And that makes that place like toxic for 100,000 years. No, this is a facility that's the size of Rhode Island. I mean, it's massive. There's so many wacky nuclear experiments that they did between 1940 and when they stopped. One of them is the most bizarre.

It's called Operation Starfish Prime, where they detonated a nuclear bomb in the atmosphere they shot a nuclear bomb up into the magnetosphere just kind of to see what would happen why would you do that they wanted to see what would happen i mean i don't know what their experiment i mean you would have to actually talk to the original scientists because then the fact that we know about it at all it's fucking insane right they did this. They shot it up into the Van Allen radiation belts and just launched a fucking bomb up there. I don't know, to see if they could blow a hole through it. This was when they were doing manned space missions, too. So they might have been trying to blow a hole so to make it less radiation up there when they're sending astronauts through it.

Crazy. Who the fuck knows? But the fact that they didn't know what was going to happen and they decided to try it anyway. Right. Just like, okay, we'll just shoot a fucking megaton bomb up into the atmosphere. The worst case scenario though is really bad, right? Really, really, really, really, really bad.

Yeah. Like fucking a million people die of cancer or something. I mean, who the hell knows? What is this one? I was asking, is that a real picture? It says that Operation Starfish happened during Operation, or what do you say, Starfish? Starfish Prime, it's called. Yeah, it happened during Operation Dominic.

And this picture pops up. Well, it's probably real. I mean, they did so many of them. One of my favorite ones of all time was one where they did it in the ocean. And they really didn't know what kind of a reaction they would have inside the ocean from a nuclear bomb. Oh, I've seen that one. They have video footage of that, don't they? Oh, my God, yeah, absolutely.

Jamie, see if you can see that, detonated nuclear bomb in the ocean. Find that. But it was beyond what they thought the impact was going to be. Like, they actually had battleships stationed around the area, and they got wrecked. I mean, I don't know how many people died in it or if there was even people on those battleships. I think there were dummy ships, right? Hopefully. Hopefully. Because when it happened,

I mean, what in the fuck? I mean, that water goes a mile high up into the sky. It's insane. This is not the best video. There's a way better video where there's a bunch of ships around it, and you see the ships just get overwhelmed by the water.

There's one of them. Look at that. Like, there's a perspective shot, because you kind of get a sense. I mean, fuck, man. Nuclear power is insane, and nuclear bombs are way more insane. The idea that you're going to split atoms and it's going to cause a reaction that is just so almost inconceivably powerful to the average person like what could be when we have like sort of a metric in our head about okay this is a

firecracker right and then this is an m80 it's here's the video. Yeah, this is the big one. It's a fucking, it's a mile into the air. You know, here is an M-80. Here is a stick of dynamite. Okay, here's a nuclear bomb. Like, oh, it's just, it's so exponentially more powerful than anything that we can kind of wrap our brains around. And this is also, you know, what was this? What year was this, Jamie? This happened?

1950-something? 58? Imagine what they have now. Right. I mean, the 2016 version of that, I mean, there's just no more water. Right. The ocean's gone. You know, the ocean becomes a Sahara desert.

That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, humans are bananas, man. We're a weird little animal. And how long did you work out there at this test facility? I was out there for about two and a half, close to three years. Were you familiar at all with Robert Lazar? Yes. What did you think about that guy?

I had heard that he was a contractor and the story wasn't all that. Right. I heard that the area he talks about, S3, I heard that's true, that is a real thing. But I don't know about his stories. His whole thing was folding space and time. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know about that.

Well, he's one of those guys that if you're a dummy and you listen to him, I mean, you go, oh, well, he's making sense and he seems so confident like i listen to him i don't know what the fuck he's saying like he's talking about magnetic drives because i'm a dummy so i'm listening to this this magnetic drive talk and talking about these spaceships i'm like oh my god this guy's telling the truth right because i don't know any better but if i'm sure if i was a real physicist and i listened to him i'd be like this that's not how it works. What, what you saw?

What, what did you see? No, that doesn't work like that. You just have him on the show with Robert Lazar. Yeah. With someone. Exactly.

I don't even know if he gives interviews anymore. I mean, I haven't heard about the guy for ever. Yeah. He was, uh, they were saying he was a contractor working for, was it DOD or something like that?

Or I don't remember. It was weird because he was never in any of the official, like catalogs orD or something like that? I don't remember. It was weird because he was never in any of the official catalogs or books or anything like that. So his story is a little bit, I don't know. Well, also, one of the guys is a guy named Stanton Friedman, who's one of the premier ufologists. He's actually a highly educated guy that's very skeptical of most UFO claims, but still believes it's possible. He did some research into the guy's background and believes that he lied about his education and lied about like different places that he worked but i don't know you know it's it's it's not it's fun to to

pay attention to but it's one of those things where you're like man i'm not really going to get a resolution here right so it's just for me it's the once a year where you're like, man, I'm not really going to get a resolution here. For me, it's the once a year, 11.30 at night YouTube video fest. Where I just sit back and I'm just like, I watch like three hours of YouTube videos and I'm like, oh my god, UFOs. And then I go to bed the next day and then it happens again

in a year or so. Well, I think for sure it's possible that there's life out there in the universe that is as intelligent as us. But it's also possible that we're the only one. And the reason why I think it's possible that we're the only one is there's hundreds of millions of life forms on Earth. But we're the only one with an Apple. We're the only one with iPhones.

We're the only one that knows how to use the Internet. We're the only one. I mean, out of these hundreds of millions of life forms on this Goldilocks planet. Well, it would make, oh, you mean out of just our planet? Yes, out of our planet. I thought you were saying out of all planets, we're the only ones that use an iPhone. No, no, no. I was like, well, that kind of makes sense.

We kind of invented it. But I mean, out of this planet. You know, it's not like we go into the fucking Congo and we find some strange species that knows how to send emails to each other. Right. You know, we're the only one. Yeah, but then again, dolphins. Yes. They do weird shit with each other.

They can talk and whatnot. Most certainly do. Not only that. We can't do most of that stuff. Not only that, we don't understand what they're saying. Right. Which is kind of weird. It's very weird.

It's weird to be the top being here. Are you familiar at all with John Lilly? No. John Lilly is the guy who created the sensory deprivation tank. Oh, yes. I've done that. And he was also a pioneer of interspecies communication. He used to do acid and get in this sensory deprivation tank next to a dolphin tank.

And he tried to communicate with the dolphins. Did that work? Who the fuck knows? It sounds like it kind of could. It probably kind of could. I mean, maybe at the moment, while he was tripping balls, floating and hearing, he probably kind of got a sense of what they were saying. Right. I was in a tank once and I swore that it was an experience that I, I mean, the imagination is a very strange thing you know imagine imagination is is very weird because it's

a lot of people when you think of the imagination you think of oh he's making things up in his mind that aren't real that's like the standard way of looking at the imagination and really like pragmatic hard-nosed people will go ah all he's doing is sitting around all day imagining things but imagination is responsible for that clock this computer computer, the coffee mugs, how to use ceramics, microphones. Every fucking object on earth is all created out of the imagination. And I was in a sensory deprivation tank. And I had this experience where I was in the jungle. And not only was I listening to these people speak this strange language.

You were sober. You weren't on ayahuasca or anything. No, I was high as fuck. And not only was I listening to these people speak this strange language, but I understood. You weren't on ayahuasca or anything? No, I was high as fuck. I forget what it was on. It was most likely edible pot. Edible pot is my drug of choice in sensory deprivation tanks. Because I think edible pot, first of all, is one of the most underrated psychedelic compounds. underrated psychedelic compounds. I just think people don't realize that there is a profound difference between THC and what happens when your liver processes it, which is 11-hydroxymetabolite,

which is four to five times more psychoactive than THC, which is why a lot of people think when they eat pot cookies that it was laced. It's like, oh man, something was in there. No, that's what happens when you eat cannabis. That's what's responsible for the Vedic texts. A lot of the ancient Hindu documents, like all of their yogi practices, a lot of that was about eating hash. Really? Eating hash has been a tradition amongst people for thousands and thousands of years. You eat the hash, like the sticky hash? You eat that?

Yeah, you can eat that for sure. I didn't know that. I thought you had to smoke it because it's already been broken down. Well, especially when you cook it. If you cook it in something fat-soluble and then you eat it, like that's how you get it. Right, well, that's just like butter with wheat or whatever. Right.

And even in candy form. I don't know exactly how they're making it, but you're eating it. So it's whatever it is that allows your body to process it. But when you do that inside a sensory deprivation tank, like on a pretty decent sized dose, you have some wild ass experiences. I bet. And one of mine was, I was in the jungle and I was with these people, these indigenous people, wherever this jungle was, And they were talking. And not only did I understand what they were saying, but I was thinking in their language.

It was very brief. It was very brief. And then I realized what I was doing. Then I woke up and I could never bring myself back to that state again. But I remember that this experience, which probably only lasted a couple minutes at most, was sensational. It was very strange. And I was trying to think, like, maybe this is like some sort of like a deeply tucked away genetic memory from back when, you know, the great, great, great ancestors of whoever was, you know, if you have to think any person that's alive today somehow or another your genes must be traced back to ancient people those there's only one way sure you didn't get come out of a fucking uh 3d printer six weeks ago right you are a product of hundreds of millions

of years of life right so if that is the case some of that is probably tucked away inside your jeans interesting and there's this guy named you're thinking this unlocks it well i think it's possible that there are little like you know how sometimes someone will bring something up like uh someone will say hey man you remember that guy we went to high school with and then they go oh yeah and then all of a sudden you remember mike right and then you remember mike's weird car And you remember Mike's girlfriend who beat him up. And had that person not given you that cue, it would have been gone forever. I think it's like, I think there are folders. And one of the reasons why I say this is because I have very obvious folders.

Like when I'm talking about certain things, like say if we're talking about, you know, whatever, psychedelic drugs or monkeys or anything. Like, my mind has, like, a bunch of information that it can draw upon. But if you bring up something that I normally would be very knowledgeable about, like maybe mixed martial arts, like start asking me about certain fights or fighters, I have to go, oh, yeah, hold on. But if I was commentating on a UFC and it came up, it would be there for me. It would be right there. It's like that folder would be open. Right. And I'd be able to access it.

So you're just saying it takes a little while for the folder to get open. Sometimes. Sometimes that has to be your point of focus. I mean, I don't understand memory entirely. I don't necessarily understand how it works and how it varies so much. There's sometimes where we're like, what is that fucking word? What's that fucking word? And then it comes out and you go, yeah, how can I forget that word?

I hate that. Oh, it's crazy. It happens all the time. And it's worse as you get older too. But what is it? What is it? What's happened to me my whole life? I don't think it's gotten any better or worse.

It's always been that thing. Like what's that fucking word? And then someone will say it and you're like, yeah. Right, right. But what is that? Like why is memory variable? Like why is it come and why is it go? And then someone will say it and you're like, yeah. Right, right. But what is that? Like why is memory variable? Like why does it come and why does it go?

And why is it enhanced by certain compounds like paracetam and things along those lines? Choline. There's like certain different things that will enhance your ability to memorize things or remember things or recall things but i i think that it's got to be possible that somewhere deep deep down in our our dna or genome or something there's some memories like and i think those a lot of those memories are instincts like um rupert sheldrake who's a guy who's been on this podcast before he's uh what is he like evolutionary biologist or something like that. One of his theories is about why children who live in cities are afraid of monsters. And he thinks that there is a deep-seated genetic memory of us being preyed upon by cats, by jaguars and leopards and things along those lines. You know, back when we were, you know, less evolved hominids,

and that we're living in the trees and that these cats are jacking us and they do it at night and that's why we're terrified of the night and the darkness and monsters you know we think kids that live in inner cities they should be scared about bullets and crime and car accidents and train derailments and things things that are real they probably will be in several thousand years once we've like right which that's becomes a part of the genome right yeah who knows man i mean but i i found that experience uh being in the tank it was so real that was what was bizarre and it easily could be marijuana plus imagination plus sensory deprivation creates this really i mean that's a good combo that's amazing pretty strong it's amazing what do you think about ayahuasca

and all these other it seems like that's the hot thing everyone's doing these days. Well, it's dimethyltryptamine. Right. I mean, that's what ayahuasca is. Right. If people smoke that on their own. Yeah. Yeah. I've smoked it a bunch of times. Oh, you have? Yeah. Yeah. I've never done ayahuasca because I'd, I've never found anybody that's willing to get it to me without going to the jungle. You got to do the ceremony. But the DMT experience itself is unbelievably intense. Just DMT itself is, it's a more powerful version of ayahuasca. Like ayahuasca, from what it's been explained to me, for everyone who's done it, is longer and oftentimes more introspective

and it can be more profound even because it lasts longer and you have more time to sort of take in the experience. But as far as the intensity of the experience, it's not as intense as when you smoke DMT. Interesting. And smoking DMT is not as powerful as when it's injected intravenously. And that's how they did it with Dr. Rick Strassman out of the University of New Mexico, did a series of tests, clinical trials on people. And he documented it in a book called DMT, the spirit molecule. I've heard about that. Isn't there a documentary on that as well? Yeah. I narrate it. Oh, you do? I'm the host of it. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. That's a,

it's a really interesting documentary because it deals with a lot of scientists and their experience with dimethyltryptamine and trying to understand what this compound is and why it exists. But the trips that people had when they took it intravenously were like half hour long, just journeys into insanity, into this. Like bad insanity? No, no, no, no. insanity into this like bad insanity no no no no but all of them i believe afterwards said that it profoundly enhanced their life and their perspective and gave them a view of reality that forever changed the way they look at things about interactions life and and i i could say that about myself like my experiences with dmt have definitely profoundly changed the way I view possibility because it's so impossibly dynamic and insane. And it just doesn't seem like anything that you could have ever imagined.

And what ayahuasca is, is an orally active version of DMT. Because DMT is insanely common. It's in thousands of different plants. It's in all sorts of different ecosystems all over the world have plants that have DMT, including a lot of grasses, like phalaris grass, which is really common. It's rich in DMT. But you can't extract it. Well, you can extract it for sure, absolutely.

You have to just know what you're doing. If you're a chemist, it's actually not that difficult. That's the reason why DMT, if you know people who know how to get DMT, the actual raw plants that have DMT, you can't make it legal because there's too many of them. Interesting. to make like it's one of the um there's some scholars out of jerusalem that believe that this is the literal interpretation of what moses was experiencing when experiencing the when experiencing the burning bush and talking to god they believe that burning bush is the acacia tree because the acacia tree is very rich in dmt and extremely common in that part of the world so was moses smoking most likely yeah it's okay if you smoke the acacia tree was Moses smoking the tree? Most likely, yeah.

If you smoke the acacia tree, do you get the DMT? I'm sure. I'm sure if you light those trees on fire, you're going to absorb a certain quantity of DMT. It wouldn't be as pure as extracting it in a lab, breaking it down to the raw DMT crystals, and then freebasing it, which is what you do. That's probably way more intense.

But it's entirely likely that there's a method of doing it. Because the method that they found in the Amazon is extremely convoluted. Like what they did was when you eat, if you eat a plant, right, that has DMT in it, your body produces something called monoamine oxidase that breaks down the dimethyltryptamine in the plant. And you won't experience it psychoactively. It's just like eating weed it does nothing unless it's been already pre-broken down but even more different because weed has to be like cooked in something in order to activate it right right but if you just eat it straight up right just like the plant itself you won't feel anything i don't think so no you don't but it's supposed to be really good

for you though oh if you eat like juicing it ju't. But it's supposed to be really good for you, though. Oh, interesting. If you eat it, like juicing it. Juicing it. It's supposed to be really rich in phytonutrients and it's supposed to be really rich in CBDs, too, which don't necessarily get you high, but are really good for you and good for inflammation. Juicing it. Yeah. No, it's a big thing, man. People juice it. It's really super common.

Like wheatgrass juice, they do it with cannabis. They take the leaves and they throw it in a juicer. You get those at the dispensaries here? I don't know, but I've seen it online. I've never actually seen it in person, but I definitely have seen it online. So what these people have done when they created ayahuasca, and they've been doing this for no one knows how long, but they believe it's been thousands of thousands of years. It's really hard to try and figure out how long they've been doing it. But they take the leaf of one plant, which containsine which is a natural mao inhibitor and they

take the roots or the vine of another plant which has the dimethyltryptamine in it and they boil it right sort of a crazy process yeah so they figured out how to make their own pharmacological solution to absorbing dmt orally which Which is crazy. Who discovered that? Well, they say the plants told them how to do it. Of course they said that. I don't know if that's wrong. I mean, I just think our view of what a plant is, it's like, well, I talk to my fur and it never says anything.

Right. You got a plant that's in a fucking plastic cup. I think it's probably analogous to the difference between that little tiny pig that's like a little baby pig and a fucking wild pig who's out there hustling, making shit happen. There's a picture I put up on my Instagram a few days ago of a wild boar running off with a fawn in its mouth. And it's a very shocking picture because we don't think of pigs as being predators, but they're opportunists and they absolutely will prey on something if they can catch it. But that image is like as far removed on the spectrum

from that little pig, that little tiny pig that's got a guitar in his lap, you know, like look at this thing. Wow. Look at that boar. And that is a- Yeah, that pig's not playing guitar. Yeah. And that's America. That's a boar in America running off with a deer fawn in its mouth. Those boars are big. They're fucking huge.

It's a lot of bacon. They get enormous. They get enormous. And, you know, there's ones that they've caught them or killed them that are, you know, pushing a thousand pounds out there in the wild. But I think that that is a wild animal, you know, and I think these wild plants that are living in the jungle, that are alive in the rainforest and have been there for thousands of years

and this deep canopy of moisture and nutrients and plants and bugs and mammals and cats and all these different things and then you got these people who live like the the chumani they're walking barefoot through these fucking woods in bolivia and throwing fucking spears at monkeys and shit and cooking them over the fire like these people have been living like this for thousands of years they're eating coca leaves and tripping their balls i've done that that's actually fun the coca leaves yeah it's supposed balls off of mushrooms. I've done that. That's actually fun. The coca leaves? The coca leaves? Yeah. It's supposed to be pretty awesome.

Yeah. You've never tried it before? I've had the tea. Yeah. I've had the coca de mate tea, which I thought was pretty interesting. I couldn't shut the fuck up. I didn't like that aspect of it. The leaves are legal. You can buy the leaves. Can you though? You can. I saw them on Amazon actually.

Yeah. They was fucking DEA hustle. Well, you need the um they have the compound to go with it it's a little bit of that uh lime well they use baking soda too yeah baking soda yeah and then you just chew it and basically it's like having a cup of coffee well it's supposed to be better for you and it also has it's actually like a healthy plant yeah the phytonutrients the the vitamins from the actual leaves of the plant itself it's actually good for you yeah i was actually chewing some with a doctor friend of mine, and he's like, yeah, it's great.

So you could just order it? Yeah, you can just order it. You need to start ordering it, Jamie. I'm going to do a podcast with a big fucking baseball-sized jaw. That's exactly what you do. You put like a little wad in your mouth, and it's just like, you know, this is a conversation starter. I think it's entirely possible that these people that are eating plants

that have psychedelic properties to them, whether it's mushrooms and, you know, there's a lot of mushrooms that you can eat that. And also in the same areas, a lot of psilocybin. So they're chewing these psilocybin mushrooms and they have these ideas of how to combine these things. You're talking about hundreds of different species of plants these fucking guys have figured out how to take these two and combine them in some really crazy involved way yeah were you boiling it and what's the explanation there's no explanation that makes any sense other than the plants gave them the hints yeah i i think that i've always believed and i've my wife's a neuroscientist so we we talk about this stuff a lot and debate it. But I've always believed that we know about the senses that we've documented.

And I think that there's certain things that we can take that activate other senses that we didn't know were there and allow us to do certain things. Like, for example, talk to plants or whatever it may be. It's not going to be having a conversation and it's talking back to me, but it could be a feeling or a vibe or, you know, something. There's something else there, you know? Well, do you know when scientists first found harming, and I want to say this was in the early 1900s. I forget what year it was, but when they first found har harming they wanted to call it telepathy the i think it was cicotrius veritas i think that was the plant that they found it in i forget what the plant they found that it was but the um the compound whatever it was had allowed these people

these scientists to feel like they were experiencing some sort of communal thoughts. And so they wanted to call it telepathy. But because of the fact that once they had isolated the compound and figured out what it was, they realized that it had already been named Harming, you know, due to the rules of scientific nomenclature, they decided to just keep that name. But their name for it was going to be telepathy. Crazy. Yeah. keep that name but their name for it was going to be telepathy crazy yeah you want to hear this is a somewhat related topic but i i have um someone that i i met that has a startup that catalogs people's dreams so they they fill out like a little small questionnaire after they have a dream and something that they've discovered i don't know that they've published this or come out with any

data released it publicly but people are dreaming the same thing on the same night. What? It's a thing. And so masses of people are having the same dream. What kind of dream? I don't know. This was over a beer that we had this conversation at a party. So I need to get back to them and say, let's get this data out there.

I'm curious as to what it is. Holy shit. Yeah. That's wild. at a party. So I need to get back to him and say, let's get this data out there. I'm curious as to what it is. Holy shit. Yeah. That's wild. Like, so how many people are they studying? It's not an official study.

It's just like an app for people that like to catalog and keep track of their dreams. So he's looking at it in aggregate and finding these patterns. So they record it nightly? Yeah, like you wake up in the morning and then like you write down, I dreamt about sharks eating dolphins or whatever it is. And then they're seeing patterns and large groups of people. It's really trippy.

Imagine if dreams are like a gigantic cineopolis. Yes. And you could pick which movie you go into and there's a bunch of other people in the movie with you watching the same thing. It's really weird. But also like movies, some thinking it's beautiful, others thinking it's shit. Right. You know, incredibly subjective. It's beautiful, others thinking it's shit. Right. You know, incredibly subjective. It's really a trap.

Fuck, man. That's crazy. That is goddamn crazy. If that turns out to be something that they discover and that starts getting expanded upon and people start really bringing this up on a regular basis, we find out that that's real hard data. That's going to be amazing. What a game changer that would be. Yeah, absolutely. Have you ever taken things before you go to bed to enhance dreams?

No. I'm going to give you something before you leave. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever tried AlphaBrain? No. AlphaBrain is a nootropic. And this is this company, Onnit, my company, produces.

Cool. And we have double-blind controlled studies showing that from the Boston Center of Memory, showing that enhances memory, enhances executive function, enhances reaction time. Also that your body, it puts your body in alpha state. It puts your mind in alpha state. But one of the big things from it is if you take it before you go to bed, it gives you lucid dreams, like really vivid dreams. And the way I describe it is, and I try not to take it sometimes before I go to bed, just because I don't want to wake up the middle of the night, freaked out, have to pee, then can't go back to bed. Like my sleep is

precious to me. Like I need at least six hours to be functional. Oh, I'm the same way. And if I don't get it, I just, I preserve that sleep. I guard it. Are you tracking it with like a Fitbit or something? No, no, I just sleep. But I'm, I sleep well, but I'm really like diligent about it. So I don't, I don't fuck, I don't go online late at night and freak myself out if I know I have to go to bed and I'm not going to like watch animal attacks or some fucking cop shooting some kid and just tripping out. You know what I mean? Oh, absolutely.

There has to be a two hour window for me every night. I try to not do electronics. And get Flux, too, which I'm sure you already have. What is Flux? It's for your laptop. It shuts off all the blue light. Do you know what I'm talking about? No.

Also, Apple just introduced this in the latest version of iOS. I've seen that. You can turn it on. It takes all the blue light out. Flux does it for the laptop. Oh, okay. And so at sunset, the screen starts to remove all the blue light and just they're saying it helps you sleep better and i i found that was the case yeah

i ran there was this um this uh this futurist convention in new york city a few back a few years back 2042 they think that uh in 2042 you know that's's going to be the year that artificial intelligence takes off and there's all these weirdos that were creating these robots that they could talk brain and damaging sleep patterns and giving you an artificial light source, especially right before you go to bed could potentially disrupt your sleep. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the whole theory behind all this stuff. Yeah.

My wife was wearing these wacky glasses for a while. Like, uh, like remember the boss, Brian Bosworth, remember those fucking goes, those blades that would cover your whole face is this shoot LED light and you're no no that's just like our like it's like orange it's like and it was the idea was

that was it would filter light so like the blockers yes in a way yeah but it was designed specifically to calm the interaction of your eyeballs with like, yeah. Amazing. Those are epic. We're looking at a photo of Brian Bosworth, who was a famous football guy from the 1980s, I guess, with these ridiculous glasses that no one wears anymore. That earring too. Yeah, those Terminator glasses.

Those were the things, right, after the Terminator? But these goggles, these things that people wear, they wear them, and they think that somehow or another, like, filtering the light will enhance your sleep. Is there science behind all that, like the flux thing? I don't know. I didn't look into the science. But if Apple's adding it, there must be something. They wouldn't just do that for funsies.

Yeah, I assume. There has to be some data behind it. Do you use all Apple products? For the most part, I have an Android phone as well, just to kind of mess around with stuff to stay current. But yeah, almost all Apple. Yeah, I have an Android phone too. I think the Galaxy phones are,

they're probably pretty commensurate. I mean, when I go back and forth, I mean, one of them is to get used to it. And the way it communicates with laptops and other Apple people and the ability to AirDrop stuff, there's some definite benefits. Sure.

But there's also some benefits to the Android platform, too. You know, I like all the new Amazon Prime stuff, like their new TV. It's great. Yeah. Yeah, it's got all the streaming. It's better UI, I think, than the new Apple stuff.

Yeah, I mean, Amazon, I wish that it would catch up and become like a real competitor to Netflix. I think they're kind of closing in. They're creating their own content now, and they're trying to really become like... They have some options, too. You can download the movies to your device, which you can't really do with Netflix.

So if you're on a plane or something like that flying over the ocean, you're kind of fucked if you want to watch Netflix. But there's also some stuff that I think you can definitely make the argument that it's probably a good idea to support emerging platforms or other platforms as well. Like this, it's not a good thing for everybody to be on Apple. Right. You know, I think the more Androids come up with more sophisticated devices and more interesting options and features and applications, the more it's going to force Apple to raise their bar as well. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that a lot of the Amazon stuff, like the Echo, like those devices in your home that you can speak to, those are a lot of fun. I'm actually finding it pretty useful. Yeah?

What do you use it for? Well, I mean, just, you know, you're sitting there in the kitchen. You're like, I ran out of trash bags. And you say, you know, order me new trash bags. And then it looks into your previous purchases. It knows that you've bought those bags before. It knows your home address. It knows your credit card.

And it just automatically sends it out. And do you have to press a button to say that, or do you just say it? No, you just query the device and just say, order me trash bags. That's it. So you have to talk to the device first? Yeah, you just say, hey, Alexa, and it's like, what's up? People get mad when I say, hey, Siri, on the podcast, because then their phone starts going off.

Yeah. Turn that shit off, folks. Siri's stupid. She doesn't know what the difference between a podcast and your own voice is. It's not ready yet. She's not the best. She's not ready. Is there a Google version

of Siri? There is, right? Yeah. What's it called? Okay Google. Oh, and that's what you say? It's the same thing? Yeah, Google Now.

That's what they call it. You say, okay Google, and then it just... The Google one's actually quite good. I've been wanting to fuck around with a Windows laptop

for a while. I can't bring myself to doing it. I got the new tablet, and I used it for about a week, and then laptop for a while. I can't bring myself to doing it. I got the new tablet, and I used it for about a week, and then I sent it back. Well, what's funny is you get it, and you're so excited, and you're like, oh, it looks cool. They've sold me because they come up with these fun little videos and stuff. And then you realize, you're like, fuck, I'm in Windows. And then you're back in.

It'll reappear. It'll look like this beautiful interface and you're like, oh, cool apps and all this and whatnot. And then you go into settings and it's like there's like 10,000 options. And it defaults back to that old Windows feel. I don't know if they fixed that with the latest version, but I mean, that was

my problem with it. I just, I realized this is just Windows again. Was this a tablet? It was a tablet, yeah. Can you still go into DOS? Yeah, I think you can still a tablet, yeah. Can you still go into DOS? Yeah, I think you can still go into DOS. You can still enter in command prompts? Yeah, which I kind of like. That brings back the old school.

It's just there's some new laptops, like Lenovo has some new ThinkPads. They're pretty interesting. They've got some really good keyboards. What about the Chromebook? Have you played around with that? No? I haven't those are pretty cool Well, I had a friend who worked for Google and she had one of those and I was like, okay

Where do you store things on this? You can't it's all that loud what you can't the fuck out of here Like you can't you don't have anything on your laptop fuck off. No, I'm kind of like that now with the Apple Yeah, yeah, why not? Cuz then you can smash it you can lose it whatever, whatever, and who cares? You just get a new one and you're back up and running in like 10 minutes. But do you have any of your writing that you don't want people to access that's up there in the cloud? Well, you just use two-factor auth and all

that stuff. What is that? That's where it has to send you a text with a code in order for you to log in with a new device. Oh. So that way, even if they know your password, they can't get into your stuff. That makes sense. Yeah, so I have that turned on for everything and then yeah everything's in the cloud all photos all videos all documents everything you're a man with no porno no no no dick pics are floating around you feel real confident you're like yeah it's in the cloud go ahead look at pictures of my dog who

gives a shit i saw yeah there was a sticker i want to get it said like the cloud is really just someone else's computer which is very true it is is really just someone else's computer, which is very true. It is? It is just someone else's computer. There is no cloud. It's not up in the sky, you fucks. Why are you calling it the cloud when it's on the ground? That's so stupid.

It's just someone's computer. But it's a weird name. Why say the cloud? I don't understand why you would say the cloud. Why say cyberspace? I guess we don't really use cyberspace anymore. Yeah, that really doesn't get brought up. But the cloud is weird.

What would be a good replacement? For what? The word, the cloud. The expression. I don't know. I kind of like it. It's kind of stuck. It makes me think of this like, well, the thing about the cloud is it's redundant.

Like, you can never lose your data. It's distributed. So clouds are everywhere. So in theory, so lose your data. It's distributed. So clouds are everywhere. So in theory, so is your data, which is concerning slash awesome. Yeah, but I just am always in this position where I say, well, what if I can't get online and I want to have access to my stuff? Well, most of it is locally cached, right? Right. So if you have iCloud on your desktop or Dropbox or anything else, even if you're in airplane

mode, it's still going to be there. You just double click to open it. You're good to go. It syncs the changes later. What you're doing it for is really just a fancy backup. In case you ever lose the device, everything's there. The fancy backup is a great idea. But what actually disturbs me is the idea that we're going to get to a point where you don't have any hard drive space.

You're not storing anything. You're just accessing things that are somewhere else. And you're paying for that service. Yeah. I pay Apple probably $150 a year for my cloud storage. And it backs up all of my devices to the cloud. Do you do the Apple Music thing where you pay the eight bucks a month or ten bucks a month? I did it just to play with it.

I thought the interface kind of sucks. iTunes is so bloated right now. What is cool though is Siri could call up songs that you don't even have on your phone. That's cool.

Hey Siri, play Michael Jackson. And it'll say, what song? And then you say, Thriller, bitch. Amazon does that too. The Echo does that.

Yeah? Yeah. You can just tell it to play anything and if you have Amazon Prime, you get access to all their Yeah? Yeah. You can just tell it to play anything. And if you have Amazon Prime, you get access to all their free Prime music. And then it just plays it. They're all doing it now. Spotify, everybody's doing it.

Yeah, I feel like I want to fuck around with other platforms just because I've just been such an Apple dork. But then part of me goes, well, that's just because you're a procrastinator and you don't want to work. You want to start playing with some, oh, I'll get to work once I figure out how to run this new lamp i'm just gonna figure out how to format my hard drive now right how do i defrag on this windows device what we do we all do it and then you always come back to apple at least that's my been in my experience yeah because just like ah there's some little things that it doesn't do right the way you're used to and then you go back to also apple keeps getting better the devices keep getting. They just get better and better and better. And like this one that I have here is flash drive, which I'm fucking addicted to.

Yeah. So it powers on like that, accesses data like that. I'm just so addicted to that. Yeah. Because I remember the spinning of the hard drive. Right. And if you dropped it, the hard drive would break. Yeah.

These things are bulletproof. They are. Yeah. That one's not retina display though, right? Yeah, it is. It is? Yeah. That is? No, that's drive would break. Yeah. These things are bulletproof. They are. Yeah, that one's not retina display, though, right? Yeah, it is. It is? That is? No, it's not.

Oh, that's a MacBook Pro. Okay, that's the, yeah. That's awesome. The retina display is a big difference, too. It's pretty slick. Yeah. Especially when I have my glasses on. Yeah.

When I'm reading, like, when I don't have my glasses on. What's the point? It doesn't matter at that point. I barely could read text. I mean, I could kind of, like, this is in front of us. We're looking at, like, normal size type like that, right? Like, I have to kind of, like, open my eyes up wide and I can read it. But it's not good.

I just bought a book. It's hilarious because I bought a book on how to correct your eyesight and how to. Is that a real thing? Yes. Really? There's Bates Method, the Bates method of improving your vision it's down Bates method yeah it's like exercises for your eyes huh Katty Bowman Katie Katie Bowman Katie Bowman who was on the podcast is

kind of an expert in physical movement and she's got a lot of interesting ideas about biology and one of her thoughts about about glasses and about uh when you spend a lot of time looking at computers looking at a screen she's like you're looking at something that's a very fixed distance which is unusual and the body's not really designed to focus constantly on a fixed distance for eight hours a day your body's supposed to look at things that are over there things that are up here things that are are everywhere. And in that way, your body gets this broad range of things that you're viewing, all these different distances. And when you look at something that's in a fixed distance, she likens it to being in

a cast. Like if you're in a cast, your muscles atrophy. Ah, I hate that technology is slowly killing us. I love it and hate it. Do you think it is killing us? Oh, absolutely. You know, i found myself uh first thing i'm doing wake up in the morning is like go on my phone and i stopped doing that

but it just it's taking over you know like look just look around you like take one day and when you're i i walked to work in new york and i put my phone in my pocket and i just walk around and observe other people everyone is heads down on their phone. Oh, yeah. Like, if we were, like, visiting as this planet and just observing this species called human, like, you would say, oh, they're being controlled by this little thing that's telling them what to do. Like, it looks like we're being controlled. Well, what's interesting is people say, back in the day, people didn't do that. But there's a photograph of the subway from like 1960 or something like that. People reading papers? All of them.

Every fucking person is in there reading a newspaper. I think people- But at least it was one tab. It wasn't like, you know, it was like one page to read. Look at these people. Right. But like, they're not, there's no tab browsing there. They're not jumping around.

But they're all fucking reading the paper. All of them, man. They're not looking at each But they're all fucking reading the paper. All of them, man. They're not looking at each other. That's fair. This idea that we used to be amazing. We used to be gregarious.

I want to turn off tab browsing. That's what's killing me. Tab browsing on your phone? Just on your desktop computer and laptop. Oh, yeah. I always say,

well, I'll leave that tab open because I'm definitely going to need to get that. I have tabs that have been open for months. No, how about this? Have you ever gone back to your email tab and like there's an email that you're supposed to hit send on? Oh, yeah.

Like eight hours ago? Yeah, you're like, oh, fuck. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's definitely not perfect. But I'm, I don't know, I'm a big fan of technology.

I just, I'm also a fan of self-discipline. I'm, I don't know. I'm a big fan of technology. I just, I'm also a fan of self-discipline. I think you need your own sort of boundaries that you won't cross. Right. Like, you know, it's X amount of time per day, you know, or six o'clock at night. I put everything away. We're done.

Yeah. That's it. If you need to get a hold of me, call me. You know, nobody fucking calls me. My phone, I shouldn't even have a home phone. It's fucking useless. Never answer that goddamn thing. Yeah.

Somebody calls me. You have a home phone still? Exactly. That's weird. Why do I have it? I was at a home. 911. In case there's a fire in the police, you need to get a hold of me and vacuum the neighborhood.

But there's levels. I'll check my phone in the morning, and I'll see text messages, and I'll see if anything's important. If someone I care about sends me a text message, then something might be important. Right. That's level one. Level two is I'll check my email. That's like next level.

Then level three is like I start going into social media. Instagram. Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And then there's level four. I start Googling shit and checking out forums and reading information about stuff. And that's, then you're going deeper and deeper and deeper. And then you're looking to be distracted. Right. You know, I'll go to dig, you know, like that for real, man. That's like one of my main sources have been for years. That's awesome. My main sources of wacky shit going on in the world. It's still got a lot of wacky shit on there. Yeah.

Do you, are you involved in it at all anymore? Yeah. I mean, technically I'm kind of an advisor to the company and now that I'm out in New York, I, they're based out there. Yeah. Are you involved in it at all anymore? Yeah, I mean, technically I'm kind of an advisor to the company, and now that I'm out in New York, they're based out there, so I spend, I see the team from time to time. But it was just, man, it was so many years of blood, sweat, and tears that I kind of got burnt out. I was like, I can't look at any more cat videos.

I'm gonna jump out the window. It's just such a great resource for someone who's just curious. Like, let's see. What's interesting out there Oh, okay You know I'll look at it every day and I'll find at least one thing every day that I have to read like holy shit And I have to click on it

but it's interesting because I'll send someone a dig link and There's a desire that people have a completely unfounded desire DigLink, and there's a desire that people have, a completely unfounded desire to be over something. You know, like MySpace. Yeah. MySpace is a good example. Oh, for sure. If you send someone, hey man, I want you to check out my thing, it's on MySpace.

See, I've always wanted to bring back MySpace. Or I want to get an AOL. If I was in charge of AOL, I would make their email so badass that no one could deny it. Okay, what would you do? Just go crazy. Do all the encryption shit that people are talking about. Do like unlimited space. Just like make it the most amazing badass email platform so it's like the cool thing

again. So it's like Gmail plus. Like take everything from Gmail. Gmail's probably like the best free email platform, right? How much better is it than Yahoo? I mean, Yahoo has ads in their stuff, like visible big-ass ads. Those fucks.

I know. What about Hotmail? Is that still around? Hotmail's still around. Hotmail would be another one you could probably turn into something pretty badass. You have to get all the Microsoft crap

out of there, though. They own Hotmail, right? Yeah. They make you sign on with a Microsoft account and all that weird stuff. Is there anyone that prefers Windows? Is there anyone that says they try Apple and they try Windows and they go, oh, this Windows thing is better.

There's a lot of people out there, hardcore Windows fans. But are they really Windows fans? They're gamers. Or are they just massive, right, gamers. So the gamers still love Windows. Yeah. You can't run Oculus on a Mac yet. Well, it's also some people love all those options too, right?

They love that. You can't run Oculus Rift on a Mac? No. Oh. No, not yet. That's a game-chiller. Yeah. A game-changer. The video card's not good enough, they're saying. Whoa, really? Interesting. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Well, when you

play video games on a Mac, do they have native versions of, do you have to switch over to, you know, like, there's that, what is that application that you can switch back and forth between Windows and Mac? Yeah, they have like the boot camp they called it where you could boot into the. That's still around? Yeah, the good news is that it's all Intel hardware, so you can boot into Windows if you want to, but it's still like the graphics cards are a few generations behind. That's so weird. Yeah, it's just like Apple doesn't care.

They don't have really anyone doing super high-end gaming on their rigs, so that's not their game anymore. Well, you remember when Steve Jobs came back and they killed the clones? Yeah. That's when it was kind of weird because before then, you could buy a Mac online that was way more powerful than anything Apple was selling. Right. Way more hard drive space, SLI video cards. Did they do an SLI video card?

I don't think they were doing SLI, no. This was before then. They had souped up processors, though, and much more power, much more storage space. And then Apple was like, fuck you. Yeah. But you still can't run Mac OS on a PC. It has to have its own ROM, like a special Apple ROM. Right.

But I know people have done it. There's hacks around it, but it never works. Does it? 100%. People are going to go crazy right now. Well, anytime there's a software update, they just patch it, so you're not always running the latest stuff. Oh.

It was always a war like that. It's really interesting. It's really interesting, the dual platform thing, because it kind of becomes a tribe thing. You know, like people get addicted to rooting for one particular sports team. You know, like, I've been with the Cubs since the beginning. I'm going to be with the Cubs to the end. Yeah.

You know, go Cubs. Yeah. They get that way with Windows. Oh, they get that way with websites and everything. Like you were saying with MySpace and all those others. The same thing with Dig. People were like pissed off at Dig for a while. Yeah, well, Dig changed its look.

Yeah. And when it changed its look, all these people are like, fuck Dig, what are they doing? I'm like, you're just looking to say fuck you. That's what you're looking to do. Like you're looking to be over something. It's not like, this is not a rational disagreement or a grievance you have. Yeah, there was a lot of i mean there's a couple things one it's we've one thing we learned is that people uh they love when they

get into something and really into it they're hesitant to change like anything that you change you move an icon or change a color or do any of that stuff i think it's part of the reason probably why reddit hasn't made a whole lot of big overarching changes to their product. It kind of feels the same. It looks the same. It functions the same. It's because people fell in love with that. And it's a hard thing to do.

You make any changes there and you have revolt on your hands. So for us, it was difficult because we had taken a lot of investor funding and they wanted us to go very mainstream. There was always like, well, how can we get your mom reading Dig or whatever it may be? And I think that, you know, in retrospect, that was the wrong approach because we should have been loyal to our core audience and kind of been all about that,

which the site is today. It's a lot more like it was back then. I mean, granted the design has changed, but I think the content is more like that. And the mistake that we made is we tried to push into more kind of mainstream news, when really what made DigSo special is that it was able to unearth and find the really kind of unique, obscure, random stuff from around the web. So that was, but it was a crazy ride. I mean, we were, gosh, it was probably seven or so years that, um, we were kind of riding that wave, you know, and like all internet

properties, it's like, if you can last five years, it's amazing. If you can last seven, that's unbelievable. And if you can last 10, that's like almost unheard of. I go to it every day. So to me, nothing's changed. That's awesome. The popularity of it hasn't dropped off at all i met i met with the uh the john borthwick at heads up beta works and he was saying it's something like a total of 42 million across all platform a month dig still receives that's across mobile uh and desktop and everything else that they do that's still amazing which is crazy it's a lot of fucking people, man. It's nuts. It's just, I love when someone can just collect things for you.

Someone aggregates all this interesting, weird, bizarre shit. Yeah. It's a one-stop shop. There's kind of always going to be a market for that. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm doing now with my newsletter. I don't know if you saw that I launched a new newsletter. Yeah, I launched a newsletter here just a few weeks ago. And I only put it out once a month. Like I hate, I hate that, you know, when I was

in television on tech TV, and some of the other stuff that we did, it was always about producing new content every single day. And you can never really put the best stuff out there. You're always in a rush to produce your segment, you're like, Okay, what am I gonna do today, blah, blah. And so I created a newsletter that is basically just um my favorite stories videos products but things that are fully vetted that i spent a lot of time collecting and so i just i release it once a month on the first of every month oh that's great the fully vetted thing's great because god there's so many well first of all how many stories do you get that are completely contradicting something that was a story just a week ago?

Right, exactly. And you're like, well, who the fuck is right? Well, now you're going to make me do research? Now I've got to snopes this and figure this out and try to figure out who's team I'm on and which article seems most rational. And then if you can't do that, then you have to go into scientific papers. And oh, fucking Christ. Then you have to contact people and search forums and see what the people that are actually studying this shit think and it's nice if someone vets it out in advance yeah yeah so if i if i put a product on there it has to be something that like a technology product that i've

used for at least a month so i can tell you you know there's a lot of that kind of like i get hyped up on something for a few days and it actually ends up sucking and you've already plugged it and you're like give me an example of that. Like what? I don't know. Just like any new product that comes out, like when the Echo first came out, the Amazon Echo, it's like I think it got better with a few software updates. So I'm glad I didn't plug it initially because I kind of thought it sucked. But it's a lot better now. But it took some time to get there. I just want to make sure that if I'm – I feel like our time is really precious. All of our time is really precious. All of our time is really precious. And if you push someone to go read something or to buy something, it should be

worth their time. And so I want to put a lot of effort into that. So, well, that's a great way to approach it for sure. And if someone's going to really get committed to paying attention to you on a regular basis, on a monthly basis, it's probably the best way to do it. Yeah. Make sure that you're filtering it out before it gets them yeah yeah so uh it's called the journal you can sign up at the journal.email there's dot email domain extensions now oh really yeah it's uh it's like email list yeah it's email it's just an email list you put in your email address to send one a month and um you can use it for anything you can use the domain for whatever you want but they came out with the dot email domain extension. That's a weird extension.

What is it? Because usually they're from countries, right? I don't know why. Yeah, it's normally from countries. But now they're opening up to everything. There's like.wine now. There's.like, you know. Do they have.porn yet?

There's.xxx. Oh, okay. And that's all porn? It's so expensive. Really? I have.photography for my website. There you go. You do?

Ooh, look at you, Jamie. .photography. What is something that's really got you hyped up? The Aero Wi-Fi system. E-E-R-O. What is that? Oh, it's crazy. So you know how there's always been,

we've had Wi-Fi units that it's like one base station to rule them all. Like you have one base station. They get crazier every year. They have more antennas on them. And this idea of one master base station that blankets your entire house, it's great if you have a small apartment. If you have a house or two-bedroom or three-bedroom, it's next to impossible to get streaming video down at bedroom number three down the hall. So Arrow's like, okay, screw it.

We're not going to make one master massive base station. We're going to make these little tiny hockey puck style little stations. And you get three of them in a pack. And then you just plug them in and around the house. And they work off a mesh network. So they all mesh with each other. They're not extenders. They're like using their

own dedicated little wireless signals to do mesh, almost like the way a Sonos would operate in your house. And then you just have universal blanket high-speed coverage. So it doesn't vary no matter where you walk? It's amazing. In New York, I was having issues because my cable modem was all the way on the other end of the house, and I have a long hallway kind of going between the dining room

and the front room. And I plugged three of them in all going down the hallway. And normally with these boosters or anything else, they just kind of like, they kind of suck. They just never work right. And this one just, I mean, set up on your iPhone. How do you spell it? E-E-R-O.com.

Yeah, there they are right there. Those are three units on the screen there. But, yeah, they're pretty amazing. And it's a new technology. One of their investors was telling me about it. I bought them on Amazon. And this is something I just mentioned in my newsletter because I had some time to spend with it.

And then I actually really... If your Wi-Fi works great at home, don't mess with it. It's not worth it. But if you're having issues, this works. Why does it have a phone there? Do they have an app that works or something? Yeah, so the setup is just with the phone. They don't even make you

use a desktop to set it up at all. So you just plug it into your whatever, you use like some sort of a cable that connects into your router? Yeah, you just plug it right into your router with the first base station and then you go and take the other ones and just place them around your house. Yeah, it's great. And how does

it work with the Apple Wi-Fi system? I just got rid of the Apple. I unplugged it all together. And you just it work with the Apple Wi-Fi system? I just got rid of the Apple. I unplugged it altogether. And you just use only that now? Just only use this, yeah. Really interesting. Ooh, I like it.

Better, huh? Yeah, it's been getting great reviews. You know, again, but if your Wi-Fi is working fine, don't mess with it. But mine, I must have pissed off some kind of Wi-Fi god in a previous life i've never had good wi-fi yeah i have some issues i think everybody does wi-fi is weird too i always wondered what's going on with those signals just fucking flying around your house too right is that is that good i think you're fine i think you're fine too but i don't know it's like that same thing you're saying about there could possibly be senses that we don't necessarily have that we could measure and weigh.

But there's a feeling that you get when you're at the top of a mountain. If you go hiking and there's no Wi-Fi signal, it just feels cleaner. Right. But it also could be the amazing fresh air. Could be. Right. Yeah. Or maybe we can do some DMT at home and start reading people's email just by intercepting their signals.

Do you think there's going to come a point in time where there is no longer any privacy? Any privacy at all? Yeah. I don't think so. I think privacy is a hot topic right now and people are really starting to get into it for the first time. Right. Well, they definitely are concerned.

Yeah. People, when you hear about the NSA thing, the Edward Snowden thing, you find out that it's really pretty easy to access your information. And, you know, people worry about being hacked or being phished. You know, someone sends you an email. People are worried about privacy. But my concern is that it seems like what's going on with technology in general is, especially when it comes to the internet and anything information based is your access to information is getting quicker and quicker right it's like you have more access to

more data and more access to each other right and each other's data and eventually that means that keeps going it keeps going it keeps going there's gonna come a point in time where we're just fucking reading each other's minds right and when that happens there's really not going to be a lot of privacy, if at all. Yeah, I think that there is there's certainly people trying to push the envelope there. And there has been over the last few years and in startups that I've seen, like there was a startup that at one point you would often all of your credit cards and it would share out socially the stuff that you were buying with friends. socially the stuff that you were buying with friends. And so basically if you went on there and bought a blood sensor on Amazon, I would see that. And then I could then use that as a kind of a more or less an endorsement from you and go buy something similar. It blew up and it went out of business, but they were kind of pushing that, but there has to be a trade-off, especially when it

comes to free services. Like you can't expect to be a private person if you're getting something for free, right? You know, like if you're getting something for free. Right. You know, like if you're getting Gmail, they are reading your emails and they're putting ads against it. Now it's not a human reading them, but their machines are reading them and placing relevant ads. And it's like that spooky moment when you were looking something online and

then you go look to the corner of your, your website page and it's that exact ad. Right. But that's fine. I'm fine with that. Right. Because it's fine. I'm fine with that because it's free. I don't have to go drive down to the library and look up a book and trying to figure out what I was trying. You know, Google's providing that service,

and I'm like, thank you very much, Google, and I will gladly take your ad. Right, and if you're looking for like a pair of shoes and you went and researched a pair of shoes, then all of a sudden that pair of shoes is staring at you on a website. It's creepy, but I get it. It's not terrible.

It's not terrible. Yeah. Because it's something that you already expressed intent towards. You're like, I want that MCT oil. Right. And now it's there again. It's not like sexual deviance shit. Right.

Well, I guess it could be. Is it? Depends on the targeting. I don't know if they do that, though. No, Google doesn't allow that, no. Yeah, that would be rough. Yeah. Try explaining that.

Yeah, that's forbidden by the terms of service. It must be. It's funny because that's where people draw the line. It's like sexual pleasure. Like sexual pleasure and sexual fantasies. That's where we draw the line. Right. About what you can talk about openly and have, you know, you could have a shoe

fetish. You'd be like really into shoes. Have you ever met anyone that openly says they have a shoe fetish? I don't think that that's a thing that you can talk about. They might not say it's a, well, sexual fetish? No. But all those fucking weirdos that are collecting sneakers, you know who you are. Right. Oh, so

you're thinking the Nike sneaker collectors are also... Jamie's one of them. Look at him you're thinking the Nike sneaker collectors are also. Jamie's one of them. Look at him over there smiling. He buys those Kanye West sneakers. Really? Yeah, he's a mess. I wish. I don't have them.

He wants to try to find them. He can't get them. They're sold out. The question is like how bad do you want them? Is it like I'd like to have them or like I will do anything? My friend Brendan, he buys pairs and then he won't wear them until he knows he's got to do something important. Then he'll put on a special pair of Jordans. We all have that, though.

I used to collect old microprocessors. Really? Yes. What'd you do with them? You know, actually, I have a sealed copy of Windows 1.0. Wow. It's in the Computer History Museum. It says my name underneath it outside of San Francisco, outside of Mountain View. Well, that's actually pretty cool, though.

That's history. That's like having an ancient leather-bound book that Ben Franklin wrote in. I thought it was kind of cool. It's pretty cool. Yeah. I've got an old Windows NT that's still in the box in my house. 3.11? 4.0, probably.

I don't know what the number is, but it was around Windows ME, because I remember I was making game computers and I didn't like Windows ME. Oh, it was the worst. Yeah, it was sucky. And so I had some friends that went with NT, but the problem was you would have issues with certain drivers for video cards, and then you have to be really hip on the forums and make sure you get on IRT and- IRC. IRC and find out where the best drivers are and how to-

Super geeky days. Yeah, there was like certain resolutions. You couldn't run things. Oh, there was everything. You had to file or format with the NTSF file system. Yeah. Remember that? IRC was always weird too.

It was strange because you could send files to each other. Yeah. was always weird too so strange because you could send files to each other yeah so yeah IRC is such a strange message sort of distribution the original hashtags were an IRC do you remember that you could do like pound a channel like anything that's right yeah this is all for my quake playing days so that was how clans would communicate with each other yeah the quake teams to call each other clans first people like you like, you're in the clan? No, clan like tribe,

like, you know, team that competes. I didn't even realize that. They did call it clans back then. Yeah, they call them Quake clans. That's so crazy. Yeah. I didn't even make that connection.

I was in a clan too. Yeah, I was in a clan. It's so crazy they called it that. Yeah, you know, and we would go to these IRC channels

and we'd have like a window open. Like a lot of guys would run two screens. So you'd run one screen where your video game is playing and then you'd have another screen next to that. Right. Separate, which was your IRC channel. Right. And so you'd be communicating with each other. And you had IQ.

Remember the instant messenger? Yeah. ICQ. ICQ. The little flower, the green flower. Yeah. That was awesome. And so you could send each other little ICQ messages while the match was green flower yeah that was awesome and so you could send

each other little ICQ messages while the the match was going on super geeky dude this is geeky as it gets I mean this was like 90s

yeah right so like this is this is how deep I was into it I lived in the mountains like kind of

high up in the hills of the Santa Monica mountains and I couldn't get good internet access the best I could get with ISDN. I couldn't get cable. Couldn't get cable modem out there. It was fucking terrible.

The pings were awful to everywhere. So I had a T1 line installed in my house. Whoa, you must have been rich. I was rich. Those were expensive. I went deep. Yeah, but it was worth it to me. It was a 1.44 megabit line.

Yeah. Wait, those were like 10 grand a month. It was worth it to me. It was a 1.44 megabit line. Yeah. Wait, those were like 10 grand a month. It was worth it. That's crazy. Did you really buy a T1 line back then? Yes, I had it installed in my house. How did you get that? How could you even afford that?

Oh, you were using TV stuff. I was on TV. Wow. So I was like, look, I could- It's TV money. Go blow all this money on Coke and hookers. Or a T1 line. Or I could install a T1 line in my house.

Wow. The people at the whatever the fucking company I called to do it, AT&T or whoever did it, they were like, what? Did they have to lay like cable fiber to get to your house? They had to do it to this place too. To this place. We had dog shit internet when we first moved into this place. They had to chew up the fucking sidewalk out front.

Crazy. I was like, this is not going to happen. It was way more expensive to put it in here this was a drag it's what did it take four months longer than that more than four months to get like real and but we have a hundred up and a hundred down wow dedicated line it's fat it's a it's an awesome pipe but when we first moved here we had dsl it was dog shit and it just, there's certain things that you just can't fuck around with. Right. You know. Internet is definitely one of them. And when you're addicted,

completely addicted, 8 to 10 hours a day playing Quake, and you go, oh, there's a solution? What is the solution? It's a T1 line. Let's do that. Yeah. A lot of people got, Trent Reznor was addicted to that for a long time. To Quake? Yeah. Well, it's amazing. I mean, it's,

and I can't even fuck with it today. I just don't have any time. I have children. I have too many different jobs. I just can't go near it. I can't. Yeah. But I'm sure

that if I just fucking blew a fuse one night and drank too many Jolt Colas and sat down in front of my computer and decided to go online and play some death matches, I would get right back into it. Just like a dude who has a rubber band off his arm and shot that heroin in for a while. I'd get right back into it, man. Don't do it. Slippery slope.

I won't. I won't. I refuse. But the new games, the graphics are so fucking incredible. It's almost worth it. What is this? The Doom multiplayer trailer that just popped out. Whoa.

It looks a lot like old Quake. Oh, my God. Look at this. Super fast running around. Some people are complaining about how the play is because it's that old school, the way Doom used to exactly be. Well, that's the way it's supposed to be. What are they complaining about? Too fast?

Because they like Call of Duty and stuff like that. Oh, because they're pussies. Yeah. Yeah, they want the fucking people to move like real people. That's retarded. Rocket launchers everywhere. Oh, yeah they're pussies. They want the fucking people to move like real people. That's retarded. Rocket launchers everywhere. Oh, yeah. Look at this. You turn into a monster and start fucking people up when you... Oh! You bite people's heads

off. When does this come out? Yeah, this is awesome. Alright, I just changed my opinion. I'm in. I'm back in. Can you use the controllers, though? I can't either. They're useless. I need a mouse and a keyboard. That's the only way to do it. Look at this guy.

He's fighting the devil. He's punching the devil in his fucking face. Now he has the devil power. Oh, Jesus Christ. This is amazing. Yeah, but see, I'm not interested in grabbing people and ripping them apart. I want to shoot them. It looks dope, though.

Death match. Like, one-on-one death matches with that would be pretty fucking incredible. You have the perfect setup here for a LAN party. Don't say it! Stop! I'm just saying. Stop! We used to do LAN parties back in the 1990s.

We used to all meet in Houston. That's where a bunch of my friends were. Brick and PC? Yeah. Link them all together and have zero ping. That's right. It was the greatest thing ever. The most brutal thing we would do, though, my friend Chad, he had some sort of a tech job.

I forget what it was. But he had access to his company's boardroom. And we'd set everything up in this boardroom on these giant tables and shit. And then we would start a server. And then other people would join in. But they had lag. Right. And we didn't have any lag.

Just waste them. So sweet. So, but it's just like, you know, shooting chickens in a barrel. Yeah. Fish in a barrel,

whatever it is. It's probably also equally easy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just after a while, but then the worst thing is like you would find someone who would kick your ass,

even though, you know, they had 50 ping and you had zero. You're like, oh, well, great. Who is the best player ever? What was it? Immortal? Yes. Yeah. I had him.

He was on the screens. He was on tech TV back in the day when I was on there and I played against him. Yeah. Thresh. Thresh. It's next level. Immortal was his. Well, there's a bunch of different guys.

There was Thresh. There was Fatality. Fatality is the one I played. was really good yeah jonathan wendell i think his name is i met that dude in vegas he's a great guy yeah super nice guy yeah he i think he plays regular games now too but there was a kid before him um uh name that his nickname was thresh and he sort of got out of the competitive game thing and got into online websites, like reviewing games and game websites and the business of it. He just decided to stop playing and competing. But there was a bunch of those guys.

I played a few of them online and just got fucking decimated. Yeah. Fatality had his own motherboard. I had his mouse. That was like the equivalent of being assigned by a skateboarder or something like that. Yeah, there it is. Yes. Fatality.

There he is up in the upper left-hand side. That would have been my dream back in the day, to have my face on a motherboard box. Yeah. So good. I wonder what he's doing these days. I wonder what... He must be involved in something. Well, he says he's Twitch.

He's got a channel. Is that what it is? Yeah, probably. You know, these guys, they play games on twitch and they make money playing games people watching them it's good life well some people have these channels where they play on twitch and they have hundreds of thousands of people that are following them and watching them and they're playing 40 000 people might be watching them play a fucking game at the same time like i mean you've seen the stadiums in Korea. Yes. That's nuts.

The StarCraft, right? Yeah, StarCraft, I think it is. Fuck, man. See, that's not interesting to me, though. StarCraft is boring to me. I understand it, but it's like chess. I'm sure it's fascinating to play. I love those games.

That was my bread and butter right there, like Command & Conquer and those. But yeah, it is like chess. And it's too much about build order now. It's like you have to really get your build order down and just go really fast up front. But what's the build order? It just means that you put your power plant first before your weapons plant, before your turrets.

You have to know your order in which you build things. And then you adjust that based on what they're bringing against you. So if they're trying to rush you right away, you want to get turrets up first. Look at that audience. That's insane. Columbus this weekend at the MLG tournament. That's where this is? Yeah.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. This is like 15,000 people. Huge million-dollar tournament, I think. Million-dollar prize. That's insane. Look at all those dorks. How many of those guys have ever gotten laid?

Five? Raise your hand. It'd be fun just to go to one of those fuck yeah i would like to go to one of them as a reporter i would like to interview those guys i saw that the uh the rock was back in the the ww it's not wwe he was just back in at wrestlemania like a few days ago i wanted to go dude that would be fun Have you ever been to a WrestleMania? No. It's like a male soap opera. You just go there and you drink beer and you yell and then you leave.

I mean, you know, just to experience it one time. I'm not into it. I don't know the characters. I don't watch it ever. But just to go and experience that kind of environment. It's not interesting to me, but I get it. I get how it would be interesting, but you got to think that like, I'm already, whoa, is that how many people are there? Yes.

That's 101,000. It was the record. What? Yeah. 100,000 people go to see wrestling? Fake wrestling? It's fake wrestling. 100,000 people.

Yeah. Oh my God. You know, that's the arena that the UFC has been hoping forever to do an event in. But we would have to have some crazy, unbelievable card to fill that place up. Oh, my God. Can you believe that many people go? Yes. And the tickets were 500 to 3,000.

That's incredible. Oh, my God. It's basically like the Super Bowl. The amount of money they must have made from that fucking thing is insane. And it's all fake. Yep. I mean, not that they're not athletes, though. Oh, they're definitely athletes.

Those guys are serious athletes. Athletes, acrobats. I mean, Cirque du Soleil is fake, too. Yeah. In that way. That's right. It's not unimpressive. It's very impressive.

Yeah. I just... I never thought Cirque du Soleil is fake. But, you know, I do commentary for MMA. So for me, that, the reality of MMA is so intense and so, it's so powerful that like, I just, I've seen too much. Yeah, that's fair. It's like a fake slap and a guy going down. I'm like, I can't.

I can't. I'm more going for the... I'm not actually into watching that as much as it would be just the environment in general. It's like going to a monster truck rally. I'd love to do that as well. I don't want to do that either. We're definitely not hanging out for the show. Maybe we'll go do cryo together. We'll do cryo and that's it.

We'll fist bump and fucking go our separate ways Do some DMT and some cryo Talk shit about each other once we get in our separate cars This guy doesn't even like wrestling He said fucking cryo's fake Yeah I I mean I get it I understand it I just it's not

There's not enough time in the day I mean if you if I that's why I don't follow Baseball basketball football Or hockey and people try to talk Did you see the game and I go no No, I know. I mean, that's why I don't follow baseball, basketball, football, or hockey. And people try to talk, you see the game? And I go, no. And they'll look at me like I just sucked 100 dicks. Like, no, look, man. I don't have to like what you like.

Right. Just because you guys are all into football. You didn't watch the Super Bowl. No, I didn't watch the Super Bowl. Yeah. Is that okay? I never watched the Super Bowl. It's probably a good time of day to go out and get shit done.

I was at Disneyland. It was dead empty? It's dumb. caught on oh used to be used to be back in the day used to take the kids on disneyland was a good one um some jewish holidays were good you know you definitely wouldn't get like you'd eliminate like 99 of the jewish people so that would be a good like 30 of the people at the park or whatever the fuck it would be yeah you can catch like days like that like if you're if you want to go to disneyland it's probably a good 30% of the people at the park or whatever the fuck it would be. Yeah. You can catch days like that. If you want to go to Disneyland, it's probably a good idea to plan. You got to really plot that thing out.

Right. Because if you try to go on a normal day in the summer or something like that, good fucking luck. I haven't been to Disneyland in forever. It's awesome. Is it though? They have this new Star Wars ride. How do you what? Eat a keto?

Turkey legs. You do turkey legs there? Yeah. Dude, I'm disciplined. Are you full keto now? Yeah. Well, I did a little cheating when I was in Mexico. I had some tortillas, but that was it.

Stone ground. Yeah, but I did it just because I was on vacation. I was like, I i'm gonna enjoy myself for a few days then get right back onto it but i like the effect of it i definitely had a noticeable effect in the way i look and noticeable effect in the way i feel and i think there's some undeniable cognitive benefits as far as like the clarity of your mind like you don't feel foggy and tired and i was like i'm just sticking with this yeah and plus i. You don't feel foggy and tired. And I was like, I'm just sticking with this. Yeah.

And plus, I bring, I don't have any here. Well, this is the keto. This is just some cream. This is keto cream. Ah, Rhonda tried to get me on this stuff, man. It's so sweet. That stuff's not, that's not. Wait, I had this one.

It is sweet. It's got the stevia in it. That one is? Is that the one? Is that the one I gave it to her? I gave that shit to her. I also gave her some Keto OS, which is something that you dump in water. Same company, right?

No, it's a different company. But it's ketones. But exogenous ketones are good. Yeah, I've done Keto Canna. Keto Canna is great. I have that stuff. That's good to keep you going. And then there's Dom D'Agostino, who's one of the reasons why I was first intrigued by the ketogenic diet, listening to him on Tim Ferriss' podcast.

So if you haven't heard it. Yeah, Dom's awesome. Amazing, super fucking smart guy and so dedicated to the pros and the benefits of ketogenic diets and staying in ketosis. So I was like, well, this guy is obviously on the fucking ball. I've got to really look into this. There's was like, well, this guy is obviously on the fucking ball. I've got, I've got to really look, look into this. There's gotta be something to this. And so for me, there was a few like undeniable benefits. One of the big ones is the way I feel in between meals. Huge. Oh yeah. There's not any type of crash. You just have a constant energy. Well, not only that, the constant energy or the no crash is good, but also my hunger is not the

same. Like I would get fucking famished where I would eat something. And then four hours later, five hours later, when I was ready for my next meal, I would be famished where my body was crashing. Oh my God, I have to fucking eat. I literally don't get like that anymore. It doesn't happen. So I recognize that I'm hungry. I realized that I should probably get some food in me, but I'm not compromised. Right. And in that state, I can still have a very good workout. Right. Which when I was on a carbohydrate glucose-based system, my body was just not operating like that. I would have a shit workout if I was tired and I hadn't eaten anything.

I would have to have some fruit before I worked out. And so those two benefits, but the big one was the way my brain works. It just feels, it feels less foggy. Yeah. It's a cleaner state, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's undeniable also that eating all those carbohydrates has an effect on your

insulin sensitivity and, you know, your body's just processing a fuckload of sugar. You're eating all that bread and pasta and all that stuff. It's a lot of sugar. And if you are blowing it out all day day if you're some crazy fucking ultra marathon runner or some some dude who's doing crossfit four hours a day or something like that you probably get away with it you know you're probably fine but i think there's some real benefits to staying in ketosis yeah i i got really hooked it, so much so that I was testing my blood probably three to four times a day. Which you're fine.

I was just testing after I would eat certain foods. So, you know, I would go in and say, okay, I'm, you know, two and a half millimolars right now, ketone-wise, if I have a big salad, but I put a ton of fat in there as well, will I stay in ketosis? Like pushing the edges to see what would kick me out. Right. So, you know, one thing I did find is I like to have a glass of wine or two with dinner.

And so I really wanted to see what wine would do with ketosis. Knocks you right out of it, right? You know what? Actually, a really dry champagne, I could stay in. Which is weird because you wouldn't think champagne would keep you and you think like something with a it definitely has to be on the drier side but i was thinking initially like a red wine would keep me in more than say like a champagne right champagne i would i would drop down but i'd still be you know around 0.8 to 1.2 somewhere around there do you worry about that? Do you check that on a regular basis

or do you just go on the way you feel? Primarily on the way I feel. I would always tell when I got kicked out. I could tell when I ate something I shouldn't. I'd be out and about and it would sneak up on me. You'd have a salad with some kind of dressing that I wasn't sure of, but it doesn't taste too sweet. And then all of a sudden I would get this really bad crash if I got fully kicked out of ketosis. Really? Yeah. Wow.

You must be like super sensitive. I was super sensitive, but I would also get pretty deep pretty easily. Like I could fast and get up into two and a half, three millimolars, um, within 24 hours. Hmm. Um, I had a real problem with those goddamn blood meters. Why? Because the things that they use to prick your skin don't get through my skin. Did you set it to like a level eight or whatever?

I had to take it out of the thing and stab myself with it. Oh, yeah. That's weird. Well, I lift so much kettlebells that my skins are all, it's all calloused and thick. Right. So I'd like try to get in there and I was going to actually go with the top of my skin. You know, like maybe that's the better way to do it, but it just seems so fucking gross. No, I've tried it all over the place. I've done it on the sides before.

What's the best way for you? Uh, for me it's, it is the tips of the fingers, but like, you know, it's kind of Russian roulette. Like one out of every 10 is going to hurt. So when you're doing it like five times a day, you would always kind of try and different spots, you know, it got annoying. I was like, this is annoying. It's jab myself. Cause a day, you always got to try different spots. It got annoying. I was like, this is annoying. I jabbed myself because I used to try the punch thing. It just wasn't doing anything. Right.

I would go right to the tip. Did you push in when you were? I'd fucking stab myself with that thing. But as years of lifting iron, like kettlebells are just so, it's a fat piece of iron. And your hands are just constantly getting roughed up. And I'm using powder, chalk. So it's all this grit. It's all very thick.

It's like the coating is like the bottom of your feet. Just do it on top. Do it on the tops there. Is there a better way? I mean, there's the pee sticks, but they don't really work that well. But for someone like yourself that's following a pretty strict diet, then just once a day is fine. Just check it, check it the first thing in the morning.

Yeah, I just don't check it anymore. Yeah, it doesn't matter. If you know you're in, you're in. You'll feel it. Well, I always feel like, look, what am I eating? I'm eating eggs and avocados and meat. I know what I'm eating. And I'm not, I just want to feel like I feel right now.

Like if I can just keep this, whatever this is, this is great. You know, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want anything that I have to obsess on. Oh my God, I'm in two million molars. I'd like to be at three. How do I get to three? Well, I have to drink a fucking gallon of MCT.

Oh, now I got to shit my pants. That's right. Yeah, for me, it was like, okay, what is going to kick me out just so I know the boundaries. And once I have the boundaries and I'm fine, I didn't need to do it anymore. So like, you know, I know that I can have, you know, a half a cup of brown rice along with some fatty foods and it's not going to really do anything. So it's like, I just wanted to see, you know, does a cup kick me out? Oh yeah, a cup does. Okay. Dial it back. You know, that kind of thing. All right. And when you get kicked out, how long does it take you to recover?

Half day. Half day. Half to three quarters of a day. Do you intermittent fast at all? Oh, yeah. And how many hours do you do? 16 hours. 16.

Yeah, I've done 12, and I guess that's not enough. I'll do 24 a couple times a month. Really? Yeah, two, three times a month. And why do you do it? Just because I keep, you know, he listened to Rhonda's podcast and she starts talking about like all the guests that she has on like Dr. Dom and others. Um, you know, and they talk about how if you're doing a full 24 hour fast, like it can actually help clear out the non pre pre-cancerous kind of cells that haven't

fully gone cancer. Isn't that interesting? It's crazy. Yeah. But why not? You know, it's like, this is something, fasting has been around for obviously a very long time. It also puts me in a nice kind of meditative state. You know, it's, I interviewed the trainer, I haven't released this podcast yet, but I interviewed the trainer for Hugh Jackman that helped him get shredded for Wolverine. Did he tell you about the steroids?

He did not tell me about the steroids. Well, he didn't tell you everything then. Yeah, he definitely told me about the intermittent fasting. Let me tell you about the steroids. Is this real? I'm 100% confident that that guy did steroids. How do you know? Look at his body.

He's fucking jacked. Hugh Jackman got fucking jacked. Do you think he got jacked? And he's 40 years old. You don't think he got jacked? Well, I mean, it depends on what kind of... I'm sure that he was on a wonderful diet. He was on a wonderful diet.

I'm also sure he was without a doubt manipulating his hormones. What do you think he was using? Well, I know friends that have done movie roles. Look at him. Come on, son. Well, that's a lot of Photoshop. That's a still. That might be a still, but this is seen in the movie where he gets

up out of bed and he is fucking jacked i mean is it possible to get that big without steroids if you're 20 yeah yeah or if you were a fucking maniac and you're 30 and you're in the gym all day long and you're completely and totally dedicated, yeah, it's possible. But it's not likely. But I have a friend who was, he was doing, he's a movie actor, and he was doing a role, and in the role he had to be jacked, and they just, without, you know,

they just come in. Yeah, we have a guy, and this guy's going to hook you up, and if you follow his protocols, he's just going to, and the guy's like, well, this is what we're going to do. We're going to do this and do do that and add this and that and

he's like whoa and uh you know it's it's really kind of in some sort of a weird gray area you know it's there's some stuff that you first of all there's some stuff that you can get at like gnc and some of those places where it is steroids. Really? Yes. Like what stuff? Well, a fucking shitload of them. We had Jeff Novitsky, who's the guy who busted Lance Armstrong and he works for the UFC now. He works for USADA and they have a website.

And in the USADA website, there's all these different supplements that contain products that are illegal, products that will get you kicked out because they are steroids and they are performance-enhancing drugs. Well, the USADA website has alphabetically listed A through Z, and each letter has just fucking shitloads of different supplements that you could buy at any store store any local vitamin shop that is likely to be filled with Steroids that's crazy. Well, there's the stuff that I take I took it in like the early 2000s was called mag 10 They made it illegal after a while. It was a hundred percent steroids I mean a hundred percent this has to be really bad for your liver, then. It's not good. Yeah, most of them are not good. But, you know, when you see someone gets that jacked for a movie, why would they be concerned with not doing it the right way?

No, that's a good point. What's the goal here? The goal here is you have to look like a goddamn superhero. Right. Okay? So are you prepared to not totally look like a superhero and tell everybody but at least I did it naturally right? Fuck that. No, they're gonna they're gonna do deadlifts on testosterone and take human growth hormone and the reward is pretty high too And that you get paid 15 million dollars or whatever it is, but it looked awesome. I mean, I'm not hating it at all, but

Anyone who thinks you're gonna achieve that kind of results without some sort like, like I said, like how old's Hugh Jackman? Isn't he like 40? He's like 42 or something. I mean, it's, there are some outliers. There's some people that, I mean, but in the UFC, when you find these guys and they just look unbelievable, they're like unbelievably ripped and huge and they get into their late 30s and then they get popped You know someone will some they just randomly test them and then because what the way the UFC is set up now with Novitski They'll show up your house six o'clock in the morning. Wake up, dude. Wake up, dude Yeah, we need some blood some pee crazy what and then they test them and then you know

There's a lot of these guys that are on something that has an it's insanely short half-life Like they'll have something that is only shows up in the system for, like, seven hours. So what they'll try to do is they'll try to take it, like, right before they go to bed. And they'll get the benefits of it. But they'll fucking wake you up, man. They'll wake you up. That's insane. Well, it's because they want to find out what's going on.

And we've exposed, or I shouldn't say we. I have nothing to do with it. find out what's going on and we've exposed or i shouldn't say we have nothing to do with it but they've exposed a tremendous underlying sort of just a standard operational procedure of testosterone steroids all sorts of different ways of manipulating the system epo that stuff that armstrong got caught with or actually didn't. He never got caught with anything, right? He had to confess. That's right. But a lot of those cyclists take EPO, which jacks up your red blood cell production. There's just so many different ways of enhancing the way the body functions, both naturally, like with ketosis and a lot of other methods,

and then with exogenous chemicals. Did you see the documentary on steroids? Which one? Bigger, Stronger, Faster? Bigger, Stronger, Faster. Yeah, I had those guys here. What did you think? It's great. It's interesting.

It is interesting. I've become friends with those guys. And it's just when you find out what, you know, how many different types of steroids there are and how many different people and how many different athletes are taking them, like especially throughout bodybuilding and things i mean if you can call that a sport i guess it's kind of an activity more than it is a sport it's kind of dying out though i feel like is it at least the the crazy i had a buddy that that competed um

and he was definitely juicing uh and he was he said that the big bulky kind of crazy over the top look and they're going more for more natural appearance that's kind of the hot thing now like Frank Zane or something like that Frank Zane was famous in the Arnold days as being like the most symmetrical and also like the more realistic

as opposed to like a Lee Haney who was just this fucking massive muscle where Zane was more Looked more sculpted and what look more like a you have a photo of me. Oh Jesus who's that guy? Oh Yeah, he was on what Tosh point. Oh, oh, yeah. Well, this guy is a crazy guy He's sort of a bodybuilder but more of like a personality He has an eight-hour arm workout

where he works out nothing but his arms for eight hours wow his arms are massive yeah he's everything's massive he's he's a cartoon there's definitely some drugs there no way dude totally legit yeah no he's roided to the tits um but google frank zane and you'll get an idea of what a lot of people thought was like one of the perfect bodies so like frank zane i firmly believe that that is a body that is possible you can attain that body without steroids with strong dedication and and good uh knowledge of nutrition and the right way to lift weights but But Frank Zane never got ridiculously big. Like that is a regular size guy at a lot of gyms. Like right there.

That's a regular size guy at a lot of like high level gyms. Like that might not even be the biggest guy. It looks like there's drugs there though, right? I don't know. The shoulders are popped. Maybe. Most likely, probably. I don't know.

No, that's attainable, man. That's attainable without drugs. Yeah, but look at the chest. See those little lines? Yeah, but that just means he's very lean. Those little lines, striations, that's totally attainable without drugs. There's a level. I mean, you would have to be really dedicated to training, but he's not that big, man, in

comparison to some of the people of today. Now, look at him, okay? Now, Google Dorian Yates. Dorian Yates, who was fucking, and Dorian is a really interesting guy because he's super honest about it. Like that one right there, right? No, to the left of that, right there. What in the fucking Christ?

Look how big he is! That insane that's all drugs and dedication and focus and lifting a hundred percent I mean you don't if you just take Jay Cutler you've seen Jay Cutler's legs right yeah yeah type in Jay Cutler those guys are ridiculous yeah or Tom Platts you ever seen that guy's legs Tom Platts. You ever seen that guy's legs? Tom Platts has the most ridiculous legs ever. Jesus Christ. Yeah, Cutler's got some... Those are like horses.

I mean, you have to be a maniac in the gym on top. Look at that fucking picture. That's insane. Yeah, I mean, I think this is also like a mass movement of body dysmorphia. Because it's not just that these guys are trying to get as big as they can. I don't think they see themselves the way other people see them either. Because sometimes they freak out when they're not in perfect shape and they want to cover their bodies up with sweaters and stuff.

And they don't want anybody looking at them. It's like an anorexia thing in a way. But it's still like better than 99.9% of humans on Earth even when they're not in that peak shape. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, but to them, you know, they're used to judging each other so harshly. Right. They have a little bit of extra body fat.

They start to freak. Crazy. Yeah, I mean, back to Hugh Jackman and this trainer thing. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a fantastic way to get your body really lean. And that's one of the things he was in that movie. He was super lean. Yeah.

So he was on a ketogenic diet. He was doing the intermittent fasting. So he was doing 16 hours a day. Every day? Every day. Interesting. And then on a ketogenic diet as well? I don't know about that. No, I don't think he was on ketogenic. And what was

the benefit of doing that 16-hour fasting without a ketogenic diet? Leaning up. I would wonder if that would affect, without getting your body into a state of ketosis, I wonder if that would affect the way your body put on muscle mass. Yeah. I'm not sure. I don't know enough

about this. You know, there's another, also a problem that for the longest time, doctors were calling bullshit on fasting and they just didn't have a lot of information, but they were like so quick to poo poo it. Like, you know, like fasting has no med. I remember this guy telling me this. He was a doctor. He goes, fasting has no medical benefits. Your body exists on nutrients. And when you deny your body nutrients and you think you're somehow or another cleansing your system, it's just a bunch of bunk. Meanwhile, he was wrong. Right.

And he's a fucking doctor. I mean, almost all doctors are five, ten years behind the science, though, right? A lot of them. Well, the thing is, how much education do they actually have on nutrition? Right. Like two hours of hours that it's really small it is like that it's like you know a quarter of a semester or something like that yeah something really so when you're talking to an oncologist and the oncologist starts poo-pooing the value

of phytonutrients and certain vitamins to combat cancer and he doesn't stay on top of the cutting edge of it i mean people are so weird with what they know that they believe that what they know is all there is out there. Right. Like I had a discussion with this woman and she just, she was, we were talking about this animal that they found in the Congo. It's called the Bondo ape. It's like this enormous chimpanzee.

Documented, like 100%. They have DNA photos, camera trap pictures of it. in the Congo. It's called the Bondo ape. It's like this enormous chimpanzee documented like a hundred percent. They have DNA photos, camera trap pictures of it. They have, they've got the skull of it. They, they know it's a real animal. And this woman was like, try it. She was mocking it. She was mocking it. Like what, what kind of fringe things you'd say? I went to school for anthropology. Like I go, well, you're obviously not on the ball. Like maybe you went to school 20 years ago. And then I told her go go google it go Google check it those websites and she was like I'm not going to I go you're not going to how about I'll do it in front of you and then will you shut the fuck up when I

show you photos because there's this giant chimpanzee that they found this one rare area of the Congo that's a really old photo though man that's one of the photo that's a better photo. Look at the size of that fucking chimp. I mean, that thing is goddamn huge. They have, there's a guy named Carl Armand, who's a Swiss wildlife photographer, who set up some camera traps and he got a picture of one of them walking, standing on, look at the size of the balls on that thing too. Yeah, it's huge nuts. Huge. And that's not even a good picture. That's kind of a blurry picture.

There's some better ones of it. But it's an enormous chimp. It's like a subspecies that turns out to be, it enjoys walking upright as well. See the far right, far right upper deck? Yeah, that's the camera trap photo. That's one of them, go full screen on that. It doesn't work. That's one of them. Go full screen on that. It doesn't work.

That's one of them walking upright. And they said that fucking thing was six feet tall. Like, that is an enormous chimpanzee. But the point is, this woman who said she went to school for anthropology was mocking this when we were talking about it. And I was like, look, I'm telling you. It's not something I'm making up. I'm not going to fucking cryptozoology.com like this is national geographic this was you know like there's a bunch of different scientists that are studying this thing trying to find out how

many of them there are and they don't have any of them in captivity they don't know how many there are and it's a really dangerous part of the congo where it's warlords and fucking you know shootings and killings and rapings it's like it's alords and fucking, you know, shootings and killings and rapings. It's like, it's a very dangerous spot to get to. And they're really, but the point being when someone gets a certain amount of information on a subject and then they don't stay up on it and they still want to cling to that old information, like this is all there is like you do a real disservice to the other people that require you to be the one who's the voice of information. Absolutely.

Yeah, the fasting thing is, I think it's starting to come around, though. I have a buddy that just beat cancer. He was stage three lymphoma. Whoa. And he went in for his first chemo treatments. And, you know, you just get totally sick when you're doing chemo and there was some research that had come out talking about fasting prior to chemo and how it helps with the with the therapy so he started fasting two days prior to doing chemo so you do 48 hours and then

go into chemo and world of difference and so it was this doctor put out a bunch of papers and you can even watch the videos on youtube of these rats fasting prior to chemo. And the difference between the fasting group and the non-fasting group is like night and day. The group that fasted is like running around, eating, drinking afterwards. Like after they had the chemo treatment, the other group is just on its side like deathly ill. Wow. Yeah, it's really crazy. That's amazing.

So there's benefits going into chemo too, which is nuts. Yeah, Rhonda was talking about that. She was talking about, Dr. Rhonda Patrick was talking about that, that there's some pretty significant benefits, not just for combating cancer, but also for dealing with chemo. It's just amazing how many tinkers there are out there, like Dr. Dom D'Agostino. Guys who are just super fucking smart, but also tweaking their own body.

Have you had Peter Attia on the show yet? No. He's another one that... What's his last name? Dr. Peter Attia. How do you spell it? I'd have to look it up. A-T-T-I-A-E-A, something like that.

He's been on the Tim Ferriss show. He's another body hacker slash keto person. Really, really smart guy. he was just on rondo's podcast as well okay i'll find him there's so many of those people out there i know it's great these doctors that are also into physical fitness and you know exercise like one of the things about uh tim ferris's podcast was dom diagostino talking about fasting for five days and doing like 500 pound deadlifts just insane yeah it's like So crazy. You would think of someone who hadn't eaten in five days, just being a barely alive thing clinging to life, you know?

Yeah. It's, um, it's really fascinating how we're learning also that the body has a bunch of different ways that it can acquire food, that it can acquire food through carbohydrates or fuel rather through carbohydrates or through fat, you know, or, and it can go back and forth in between those things. And just the reaction that your body has that we think is normal to common everyday foods that are just really fucking terrible for you, but we all eat them, you know, and you know, you can do occasionally every now and then, but I didn't, when I, um, when I really committed to it was when I met Mark Sisson

and I did the podcast with him and I really started talking about the, when he really started talking about the benefits of it. And I just decided, well, it's worth a shot. Let me just give it a shot. And within five or six days, I knew that this was going to be probably the way I eat for the rest of my life. And one of the things that really hit me was how bad i felt when i wasn't taking in sugar for a few days i was like god i got a headache i feel like shit then i realized oh my body's addicted to this crap absolutely sugar is the devil it's so bad for us i mean just i'm sure you keep up with the data as well but just like every it feels like every few months there's another report that comes out talks about how toxic and evil it is but it's so yummy it is yummy what a fucking weird biological

trick yeah but we never used to eat it like that we didn't refine it to the level that we do now you know well it's still i mean you know what's interesting too is is sugar is yummy and ice cream is delicious but fruit fruit is like one of the best tasting things you can get your hands on like if you have a nice ripe peach right is one of the most fantastic things and so underappreciated so underrated you know like that is the way you're supposed to get your sugar it's really the only way like if you really want sugar you're really supposed to eat your sugar. It's really the only way. Like if you really want sugar, you're really supposed to eat like a fresh orange. Right. And they're, they taste amazing. Like that should be our dessert every night. You know, it's like, it's just as good as chocolate cake. It really is. It's just, you have it in your head. The chocolate cake is the dessert, you know, that frosting and

look at it. It's moist. You know, I love chocolate, and I've started to eat 100% chocolate. Oh, okay. So no sugar added. Yeah. But here's the funny thing. The 100% chocolate that you've ever tasted or anyone else out there has ever tasted is the baker's chocolate. It's the stuff that you get at the store, and it's made exclusively for baking. It's super bitter and harsh and nasty and burnt.

And the reason, I was talking to a chocolate maker, this guy that owns Fruition Chocolate out of New York, and he said, well, they just bake the hell out of it. They over-roast it. It's not for consumption like that, so they don't care. He makes a 100% chocolate bar that is actually palatable. Do they ship? Do they ship?

Yeah, they ship. What's the name of the company? Fruition. Do they ship? Do they ship? Yeah, they ship. What's the name of the company? Fruition. Fruition? And they make 100% no sugar added chocolate bar. And I do, you know, like a little quarter piece of that. And it's just, you feel amazing. Chocolate is a great, it's a great little pick me up.

Has a little bit of caffeine in there as well. Well, that's why it's bad for dogs. Yes. Yes. I had to have my dog's stomach pumped. I'm dead serious. it's horrible my my poor little labradoodle that's gone through raccoon attack and everything else we left one of those sweet dog he's a sweet dude oh my god he's so friendly we we left uh um one of those uh

chocolate bars the whole foods like dark chocolate like 80 and he just we came home and the wrappers like all over the floor and i'm like, oh my god. And so I called the vet and they're like, bring him in right away. Brought him down there. Two days in the hospital on IV. He ate like six times the lethal dose or something like that.

I mean, he's a small little labradoodle. And did they put charcoal in his stomach? We had to give him charcoal afterwards. God damn, man. It was really brutal. Well, apparently it just jacks your little hearts. Like that's what kills them. Yeah.

The little heart. They do seizures and they have all that. So it's really bad. Fucking chocolate, man. Chocolate. That's like the only saving grace of like a Hershey's or something. They're not really chocolate anymore. They're like 2% or whatever, you know?

Is it really? Yeah. So when dogs, when I called, they're like, well, what type of chocolate? Right. You know, like, cause if it's like a Hershey's bar, they don't, they're like, oh, he might throw up. Really? Well, I don't know if it's Hershey's bars, but you know what I mean?

Like the lesser, like almost all sugar bars with milk don't have a ton of chocolate. Not like an 80% dark organic free trade artisanal bar from Whole Foods. Right. Like it's a whole nother level. That's real chocolate. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a good chocolate though. I love those things. The little cocoa nibs in them. Oh, the little nibs. Those will get you. Those are tasty. They're yummy. Yeah.

I try to, I'm just trying to avoid everything sweet other than fruit. Yeah. My sweets. So you do fruit in ketosis? Well, it'll knock me out. I'll do blueberries. Yeah, a little bit of berries.

I'll do mangoes occasionally. Mangoes is a sugar one. It'll knock you out. It'll definitely knock you out. It's not as bad as refined sugar, though. It's fructose versus sucrose, right? Right. But see, I'm not necessarily 100% concerned with getting knocked out.

My concern was like what is the diet that my body functions the best on? Like how do I feel when I work out? How do I feel like just throughout the day? And for me, no sugar. That's the big one. Avoid all that. No pasta. No bread.

Cut all that stuff out. And no rice. that no pasta no bread cut all that stuff out and no rice when I just do that it doesn't seem to fuck with me too much if I have a like a pear right or a little bit of this or a little in yogurt you know if you have like a large bowl of yogurt and blueberries realistically you're getting too much sugar you know but too much sugar for what it's not it doesn't fuck my body up right but it's gonna knock me out of ketosis. Sure. But then I take exogenous ketones.

That's what I should do because when I get knocked out, I'm in a slump. Yeah, just take exogenous ketones. You know, Dom D'Agostino has his own brand now. The Keto-Kena stuff? No, he has his own brand. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. Ketenix? I just bought it.

I just had it delivered. I haven't tried it yet. But I've been doing Keto OS, which is another company. They need to come up with a better name for these products. Everyone's like, what's a Ketocana? I don't know. Who cares? I don't give a fuck what they call it.

Just pour it in the water. It's great. But it tastes good? Yeah. It's fine. Ketocana's good, but I heard some of them are really jet-fuel-y nasty. Keto OS is fine. I mean, it's not the best tasting stuff in the world.

It's not Gatorade, but it's not awful. Keto OS is fine. I mean, it's not the best tasting stuff in the world. It's not Gatorade, but it's not awful. Right. It's fine. It's just, like I said, my main concern is predominantly making sure I'm eating healthy stuff. Just making sure that I... And then I also have to really vet out some of the information when it comes to increasing the mitochondria in your body.

Like, is that all real? I don't know. I need to find the pros and cons or the detractors of these ideas because there's some of the things that Sisson was saying that was like, ooh, I got to look that up. And Kyle Kingsbury, who's a friend of mine, who's a former UFC fighter, who's a very, very smart guy, who's also been keto for a couple of years now. I have a few friends that are athletes, like real high-level athletes My friend, Danny Propokos, he's a former jujitsu world champion. He's been ketogenic for the past year. He's really dedicated. He takes that keto can of stuff, but he's just a hundred percent convinced.

It's the way to go. It's funny, man, how many people fight like cats and dogs about this online. It's almost like a Mac versus PC thing. You know, I think it comes down to like, just how you, like you said, how you personally feel on it. Like for me, I was always having that. Okay. You know, it's afternoon. I'm in a slump. I'm mentally a little foggy. Like, you know, and I, I attribute a lot of that to a lot of the refined carbs that I was eating a hundred percent and sugar and you get rid of that stuff you get rid of that stuff and you're just sharper. Way sharper. It's like, you know, like I said about the cold therapy and the mood, the 20% boost,

it's like a 20% boost in just mental clarity and sharpness. Yeah. From my own personal experience, my own experimentation, that has been the biggest factor. The biggest factor has been cutting out sugar. Yeah. Cutting out sugar, cutting out refined carbs, all that had a massive positive benefit. So then, you know, a little fruit and a lot of, I think fruit is healthy. What's your vice, though?

My vice? Do you have anything? Like, do you ever do pizza every once in a while? No. I mean, like I said, I went a good solid 55 days strict until I went to Mexico. And then when I went to Mexico, I just had some tortillas. That was it. But even then, I didn't feel bad.

But I tell you what, man, after I ate the tortillas, I had some dessert there when I was there, too. I felt like, shit. Yeah. Ooh, boy. When you don't have it for almost two months, and then you do have it, like, oh my god, it's like I ate a brick. Did you skyrocket out with some Keto Kana to rocket boost down there?

Didn't bring any with me. No, I just roughed it. I just decided, look, I'm going to be down here. I'm vacationing with my family. I'm just going to drink margaritas and go fishing and have a great time. I'm not giving a fuck about anything. And I needed a mental break because I have essentially three occupations, and I manage them consecutively. They're all fun, and I manage them consecutively.

They're all fun. I enjoy them. But I think that just the sheer RPMs that I'm operating at all the time needs breaks. I'm learning as I get older to get better at just shutting all that shit down. So I'm shutting everything down. Are you good at saying no? I'm great at saying no. That's good.

I'm good at that now. That's a big piece of it is just saying no to a lot of things. After the last like four years, I've gotten better and better at it. I'm really good at that. I say no to like really good stuff. Yeah, I know.

So do I. Do you ever look on your calendar and think like, oh God, I committed to that thing. Not anymore. But I did. I used to.

Well, that was my entire career on Fear Factor. I was like, fuck. How is this thing still on the air? Shit. How many years was that on the air for? Six years. That's crazy.

Yeah. 148 episodes. And then we came back and did it again for six more episodes. But, yeah, now I don't. I do it less and less. Now almost everything I do I really, really enjoy doing. Yeah. And that helps.

That helps a lot. But it's hard. For a lot of folks, that's not where their money is. Their money comes from things that make them uncomfortable. Yeah. Their money comes from things that they don't enjoy, but they just happen to be good at it or understand really well. It's such a treat and such a huge blessing in life.

Although I hate that word blessing. But it's such a huge positive if you can find something you actually enjoy and that is actually how you make your living. God, it's so lucky. So lucky to be able to do that. So few people have that where they can, the one thing that like they don't, like today, like today my day was I worked out and then I said, oh, I'm going to go talk to Kevin Rose today.

This is going to be fucking awesome. I'm psyched. And that's, that's my day. You know, I mean, there's no negative to that, you know, and then, um, you know, go have dinner and it's like all normal stuff. It's like to, to have that as a job, it's beautiful. Yeah. I see that a lot. You know, I spent the last, uh, gosh, probably eight years doing technology investing, um, you know, Google ventures and, uh, and on my own and, uh,

the people, the entrepreneurs that go after things that they're really personally passionate about, they're the ones that actually win in the end because they just, when they have those shitty days, it's not like, oh man, I got to give up. It's, it's their, it's their baby.

It's their life's work. Yeah. And they can push through that. And that's, that's, I find that, uh, that's,

that's, those are the hard moments and only the moments that you can get through if you're truly passionate and into what you're, what you're doing. Well, I have a lot of varied interests, but I also have a lot of, uh, interest in other people's interests.

Even if I'm not interested in their interests, what I mean is like, if I'm listening to a guy talk, like say if he's like, uh, he makes custom kitchen knives, like, and he's just really into it. And he talks to you about the type of steel that he uses and how he prepares the blade. I'm the same way. I'm in, man. I'm in. My last podcast was interviewing a guy to talk about the absolute best paper notebooks. And we geeked out for like 45 minutes on like stationary. What's the best? The best is a couple. Well, domestically. I'm a Moleskine fan.

Moleskine are the worst. They're the worst? They're the worst. What's wrong with them? Dude, you got to listen to my podcast. I can't do this anymore. The world's filled with lies. Dude, Moleskine, they source their paper from China. Is China bad paper? China has bad paper. What's wrong with the paper?

You write on it. You can see what you wrote. It goes a lot deeper than that. Anyway, needless to say, two brands out of Japan are the best. Okay, what are they? I'll forward you my last newsletter. You don't want to say it? It was my... I don't... they're like, stuff like that.

Is there any one that I can buy that's made down here in the U.S.A.? Yes, so Field Notes. Field Notes? Field Notes are, and let's see, it was, let's see, there was one other. It was, gosh, I'm going to, what's the name that starts the R? How can you hate on this? Lovely moleskin. How can you hate on this? Lovely moleskin. How can you hate on this?

Look at this. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. It's beautiful. Look, I got a little rubber band. They used to be super legit. Look at that. That is super legit. It's all marketing.

No, no, no. It's paper. It's paper. And you're right on it. It's made with cancer substances. And I can read it. Cancer? No, I just made that up.

Sorry. Cancer in my moleskin. How dare you? There's nothing wrong with this. This is a good little notebook. And look, perfect size. I like that little up. Sorry. Cancer in my Moleskine. How dare you? There's nothing wrong with this. This is a good little notebook. And look, perfect size. I like that little rubber band thing. Baron Fig also, domestically made.

I know. Check out Baron. Can you pull a Baron Fig for him real quick? Baron Fig? Yes. This is an awesome little book you're going to fall in love with. Another Moleskine. Oh, look at this.

Moleskine in the wrapper. Would you like this one? I can do it to you. You don't even want it. You should recycle it. You should recycle it. I can't believe you're a Moleskine guy. They're great. What's wrong this one? I can do it to you. You don't even want it. You should recycle it. You should recycle it. I can't believe you're a moleskin guy. They're great! What's wrong with them? Look at these.

There's Bear and Fig. What's that? The seer. So, click on the confident down a little bit further down. You know what I'm seeing out of this? A bunch of dorks who don't really get anything done. Look at this. Hold on. Look at hand crafted from scratch. Keep going. Okay. What am I looking at? Opens flat. You know how there's always that? Look at that. Now, hold on. Look at hand-crafted from scratch. Keep going. Okay.

What am I looking at? Opens flat. You know how there's always that? Look at that. Opens flat. Okay, let me see if this one opens flat. Anyway, this is just made with some awesome guys out of New York. NC doesn't open flat. High-quality paper.

It'll work with any pen type that you throw at it. Hmm. Great dimensions. What's the name of this company again? Baron Fig. Spell it? B-A-R-O-N it B-A-R-O-N F-I-G

this is one that I would say was the fan favorite out of the one that I pulled on alright I'll check it out they have all sorts of different sizes

they have a little one like this like this moleskin that fits in my pocket yeah also it's Rodia is the one I was trying to think of

R-H-O-D-I-A Rodia is the one that won his best not domestic pick or not domestic pick, but just one that's easy to find around at various stationary shops. You know what I like too? Those ones with the black and white speckled covers

that you buy at the supermarket. Oh, those old school ones. Yes. What are those things called? Those are like the mead ones or whatever. Well, it's like it's got the black band around the the edge what the fuck is those are those called composition books yeah composition books yeah yeah those are great i like those yeah those are cool those are okay well it depends on whether you want the thing is

at the end of the day none of it matters like we're running on staples right now who cares yeah well these but if you want them to stand the test of time if you want them to be archival quality if you want them to work with fountain pens time, if you want them to be archival quality, if you want them to work with fountain pens, it's super geeky. I wasn't really into this stuff. If you have a fountain pen, lose my number. I do not have a fountain pen. If you're one of those guys with a fucking feather with a jug of ink on your desk, tap, tap, tap.

No, I do not have a fountain pen. I have to go. I'm taking a calligraphy class at five. There's something about really nice pens that is attractive. I have to go. I'm taking a calligraphy class at five. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. There's something about really nice pens that is attractive. I was just, you like to geek out on stuff. You were saying that. That's why I brought it up.

I'm only giving you a hard time. I'm with you a hundred percent of the way. I mean, I could totally geek out about paper. I geek out about paper, about coffee stuff. Oh, I geek out about coffee. Do you? Yeah. Do you do your own pour over at home?

My own what? Pour over. Pour over. Like where you grind your own beans and you pour water on top of it. Oh, yes you got about coffee? Do you? Yeah. Do you do your own pour over at home? My own what? Pour over. What's a pour over? Like where you grind your own beans and you pour water on top of it. Oh, yes. Okay. Yeah. I don't know what you meant.

Do you have like a Harjo V60? Like a pour over. Do you have like a Chemex or a V60? What are you talking about? No, I use a French press. Okay, well, that's fine too. It's okay? I mean, it's very 90s, but that's...

It works great. I'm just kidding. It's great. I have this guy, Peter Giuliano, who's a real legit coffee expert, travels all over the world. And he said French press is what he uses. Yeah, I think the AeroPress is great. I do the V60, which is... What do you got there, Jamie?

Oh, there you go. Yeah, this is a little Pover station. Is that from Caveman? Caveman, Son of Stunt? Caveman Coffee is one of the companies that we work with. It's a nice company. Wow. Locally sourced.

Everything comes from Colombia. It's a single family, single origin. They get it in Colombia, and then they bring it to New Mexico, process it. Very small company. So all these are made in Colombia? All this stuff here is probably made in New Mexico. oh it's beautiful stuff yeah awesome well caveman coffees it's a buddy of mine's company and it's it's his passion my friend tate and um uh keith jardine and lacy mackie are the other two people that are involved in the company and they just it's a single origin

single family single source company where they know the people that are growing this coffee. They go to visit these people in Colombia. It's like you're getting it from the source. And when you open up the bag, the aroma of the freshly roasted coffee. And it's got a roasted date on it. They let you know when it was picked, when it was roasted. It's fantastic stuff. There's a great coffee shop that i've been to in tokyo and it is this guy he's all he's like i call him like the jiro of coffee you know jiro the sushi guy

so he does something he ferments his coffee beans so he ferments them for i think three or four months so they're not fresh. And they're really pungent and oily. And then he does a 20-minute, like, water pour-over in front of you. 20 minutes? So they don't speak English. You walk in there, and all you can say that he'll understand is old beans. And then he literally sits there for 20 minutes and does the slowest drip pour over you've ever seen in your entire life.

And then it's done and he serves it to you with like two hands. Super legit. Like it's a baby? Like it's a baby. Wow. You're presented with a baby. How was it? Phenomenal. It's really good.

Did you pour sugar in it? Cream? Of course. I just slaughtered it. I put my ketones in there. Well, this is ketones for coffee. That's what this is. No, I know. This is keto cream. This stuff is is ketones for coffee. That's what this is. No, I know.

This is keto cream. This stuff is so sugary, man. Is it sugary? Well, it just has got stevia. They went heavy on the stevia. Yeah, but it's not sugary. I know, but it's- It only has four grams of sugar per serving.

But it's just like, for me, it was so sweet. When you don't have sugar for sweets for a long time, it just like really hits you. Well, I bought this stuff and I've never used it. It's one of those things that I always say, Jamie, one day I'm going to use that. And then I don't fucking, I just keep drinking this butter coffee. Have you ever had Kopi Luwak? No. You don't know what that is?

No. Ah. Oh, wait. Yeah, I've had it. That's the stuff that the cat shits out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had that. Yeah.

Did you like it? I thought that was just okay. Really? Yeah. I thought that was really good. I heard you're big into Bulletproof coffee. Well, that's what this is. No, but the brand Bulletproof. No. No, I'm just good. I heard you're big into Bulletproof coffee. Well, that's what this is. No, but the brand Bulletproof.

No. No, I'm just kidding. I heard you. Well, that turned out to be kind of a scam, unfortunately. The name is a great name. Oh, it's killer marketing. The formula, which was created by Rob Wolf, really, by the way. Oh, really?

I didn't know that. Rob Wolf wrote about putting grass-fed butter and MCT oil in coffee in 2004 or something like that. Oh, crazy. He wrote about it and published it. Well, that guy's ideas, they're not all bad. And some of them aren't bad at all. But one of the things that Rhonda Patrick had to correct is he gets things wrong about the science behind things because he's sort of reciting other people's work. He's not actually doing work.

Right. And he's not really a scientist when it comes to that stuff he's just a collector of ideas and then redistributes them and puts that word on them right which is fine as long as you actually hire a scientist to like you know double and triple check everything you're doing well the motivation marketer Yeah, the motivation was very deceptive. He was trying to sell everybody on this idea of mycotoxins in coffee. He's completely abandoned that. Completely abandoned that. That was the one reason why you're supposed to buy his coffee as opposed to anybody else's. Completely unsubstantiated.

And then we spent a shitload of money trying to find out whether or not that was true. Because it's expensive to test coffee for mycotoxins. We tested all this different coffee, random coffee, Whole Foods coffee, Starbucks coffee, coffee bean coffee, nothing. Wow. Nothing. And then the more I talked to actual coffee experts, the more they're like, no, they figured out how to stop that in the 80s. It's the difference between the climate in Ethiopia, which is an incredibly dry climate, which is where all coffee comes from. And this is another thing that we found out from Peter Giuliano. All coffee came from Ethiopia, all of an incredibly dry climate, which is where all coffee comes from. And this is another thing that we found out from Peter Giuliano. All coffee came from Ethiopia, all of it.

And then they started growing it in these other climates, like in South America. And you think of Columbia and Juan Valdez and the coffee. Well, that coffee, the problem with that is that's a moist environment. It's a moist, green, lush environment. It's not dry like Ethiopia. So they would try to use the same drying methods, and it didn't work because these beans would get moldy and then they would develop these molds and toxins. And so that became an issue. But then they figured out a way to wet process. So the wet processing became the solution for dealing with the mold issue.

They solved that a long fucking time ago. So some of the single origins that you can buy at some of the fancier places are still dry processed. I wonder if those would- Ethiopian coffees. Yeah, Ethiopian coffees are still very, very popular and really delicious. So one of the things Giuliano brought us in was Yirgishlef. How do you say it? What is this stuff?

Is it a type of Ethiopian coffee? Yirgishlef? No, no. what is this stuff no you're a type of ethiopian coffee you're a chef no no we're not gonna get it right but you're the two of us but it was like a almost a sweet not sweet but a lemony yeah i've had it it's amazing amazing really really interesting stuff do you have we have some we might um but But the variables and the variations in flavors, I think, is really interesting. How some flavors just have this bold, almost dark taste to them. And other ones are almost like you're drinking flowers. So what are you drinking these days? Do you go and buy a certain brand?

No, Caveman sends us different stuff all the time. Do you go and buy a certain brand? No, Caveman sends us different stuff all the time because it's my friend's company. And I know how ethical they are and how they source it and how they have this great relationship with this farm in Columbia. And it's all like direct relationship. It's like, to me, it's the easiest way to deal with it. And they have, if you go to their website, they explain how they do everything. It's just the cleanest way to deal with it. If you go to their website, they explain how they do everything. It's just the cleanest way to go about it.

And they also have this nitro. This nitrogenated coffee. Have you ever had that? Yeah, Stumptown has a cold nitro. Do you want to freak out? Do you want to run through a fucking wall? I'll give you one. 270 milligrams of caffeine. Is it cold? Yeah. Do we have any in the back? Can I have just a little taste or do I drink a whole can? Yeah, man.

You can weigh some of it. I've already had so much coffee today. Oh, me too. I want more. You already gave me the bulletproof. I've been drinking this the entire show. Yeah, we're trying to come up with a new name for it. Oh, sorry.

I don't like to use his name. Yeah, what should we call it then? What do you call it? It's called butter coffee. Butter coffee. That's what it is. It's coffee with butter in it. Caveman Nitro. It's just too bad that the guy's a dork. No offense. I is. It's coffee with butter in it. Caveman Nitro.

It's just too bad that the guy's a dork. No offense. I should have done that in front of the mic. You could hear it. But a lot of his products, a lot of those bulletproof products. That's so chill. It's really mild. They're still very good products.

Like his grass-fed whey and a lot of his other stuff. Nothing wrong with it. That's great coffee. It's great, right? Yeah. 270 milligrams of caffeine in this little tiny thing. Oh, my God. Oh, good Lord.

That's a lot. That's a lot. A normal cup is like, what, 130? Something like that. Yeah. I think a Venti Starbucks is 200. I think that's what we established. Yeah, I don't know how you can do this.

This is rocket fuel. So, we're winding this bitch up. It's about to established. I don't know how I can do this. This is rocket fuel. So we're winding this bitch up. It's about to end. All right. Anything to say before we go? This was a lot of fun, man.

Yeah, thanks for having me. I really enjoy it. Yeah. If you're ever in town, man, open invitation. I appreciate that. I'm a fan watching your show. Thank you.

And it's cool to actually be here because you normally see this stuff on video. Is it weird? You guys have a really cool... Are you physically here? No, I like it. It's got a good vibe to it. We've you normally see this stuff on video. Is it weird? You have a good sense of the space. You guys have a really cool... Are you physically here? No, I like it.

It's got a good vibe to it. We've been here for a few years now. I've got to eventually buy a place and move into it and try to recreate this or new. Something new, I think, maybe. But this is... Got little Buddhas all over the place? It works. Mini Tupac?

It's great. Conor McGregor. That's awesome. Mini Conor McGregor, Mini Tupac. Yeah. It. Conor McGregor. That's awesome. Mini Conor McGregor, Mini Tupac. Yeah. It's a good spot. I'm enjoying it here.

You're not going to do your podcast anymore? You ever going to bring that back? No, Dignation is going to, you know, the fans want us

to bring it back. We had a lot of fun doing it back in the day. But I think that we'll get together at some point and do it. I see Alex lives here in LA.

I see him every few months and it's just a matter of trying to find a venue and we want to do a live show if we're going to do it. Oh, in front of an audience. Yeah. We used to do really crazy, like 4,000 person live shows. Wow. Kind of nuts.

Why would you want to stop that? You know, we did for so many years and our show involves a lot of drinking. And so we were just like, I killed my liver. It was just like... Do you have to do drinking? Yeah.

Why? Because that's kind of the show. The show is two guys sitting on a couch getting hammered, talking about dumb tech stories. And it was just like, it was our thing for so many years. Could you replace it with pot? I don't know. I think we'd just be too dumb.

I don't know that anything would get done. You know what? Bring this too. Yeah, just don't know. I think we'd just be too dumb. I just, I don't know that anything would get done. You know what? Bring this too. Yeah, just the nitro. Just caveman nitro. Nitro upper. Take a prasitum, alpha brain, neuro one. I need to get some of that from you before I leave.

I'll get some. Do we have any here? Well, I'll get you some either way. Figure out a way. But yeah, I'm doing the journal newsletter, thejournal.email if you want to sign up there. And there's a podcast that goes along with that. And it's the most random, weird guests on it. It's not, there's no theme.

Every month is just something different. Like we did notebooks and then Rhonda Patrick the month before. Nice. So it's like, I'll probably have Tim on at some point. If you're ever in New York, I'll have you on. Fuck yeah. Something fun to do. Okay.

Awesome. Cool. Well, thanks, Kevin. Appreciate it, man. It's a lot of something fun to do. Okay. Awesome. Cool. Well, thanks, Kevin. Appreciate it, man. It's a lot of fun. Good to be on the show. Thank you. All right, folks.

We'll be back on Thursday with Rick Doblin, the director of MAPS, Multidisciplinary Something Psychedelic Studies. He's a drug guy. An awesome drug guy. A guy who's trying to promote legalizing very beneficial psychedelic compounds. He's a drug guy. An awesome drug guy. A guy who's trying to promote legalizing very beneficial psychedelic compounds. All right. We'll be back soon.

See you. Much love. Bye-bye. Big kiss. Yeah, thank you.