The Joe Rogan Experience - #789 - Dan Auerbach

Episode Date: April 21, 2016

Dan Auerbach is a musician and record producer best known as the guitarist and vocalist for The Black Keys. http://podcasts.joerogan.net

Da da da da and we're live and you have come bringing the future This is what we've all hoped for we had all heard about this when we were kids Dude, they're gonna sell weed like cigarettes in a carton And they're gonna be pre-rolled and you're gonna be buying it just like you buy a marble And you've come bringing this this is real sir. Yeah, it's it's a real thing now. Where'd you get those? I got them in Seattle when we just played there. This company brought us a whole gift bag. And how does it work with transport, with things like that?

Well, I guess if I told you, it would screw up our transport. Yeah, definitely. I'm not a traveler with. I'm a choir when you get there kind of a guy. Sure. I think it's usually the best move. It is the best move, but... Do they even bother checking people in the Seattle airport anymore?

You know, we're on a bus. It's totally different. Oh, right. Yeah, of course. Except if you go to Texas. I would never take it on a plane. No, not a good move. Not a good move. But when they arrested Willie Nelson in Texas, I'm like, wow. That's how much they don't make exceptions.

Yeah, that was weird. Fucking Willie Nelson? That was stupid. That's ridiculous. I mean... It hurts my feelings. Like, really? This is what you're doing? You're trying to solve crime? Arresting... What is he, 80 now? Willie's gotta be close to 80. I mean, he's gotta be in the top 10 of, like, people who have done more for the state of Texas than anyone, right?

I mean, come on. Not only that, he's undeniably awesome. I mean, he's a great guy. Like, why would you want to arrest that guy? Can you imagine Willie? He was probably like, really? Yeah. Are you serious?

It's sad. It's sad. The cops must have felt kind of embarrassed I bet yeah and we were talking today because today this is this is a historic day for music because of Prince I mean this is a it's very strange when a guy that's that powerful especially when I was a kid during my teen years I mean that was when he was, you know, really emerging.

And that's when people were really finding out about him. I remember thinking like, wow, this guy is so interesting. He's such a combination of different things. Like there was, he was, there was no one that was like him before.

I mean, David Bowie was sort of androgynous before, but he took it into a different new place and it was mysterious. And he had some great with david bowie for me it always felt more like theater with prince it felt more like that's prince yeah that's really him you know yeah purple rain and then did the movie because he just started that way yeah bowie kind of transformed into that androgyny prince was like that to begin with right yeah i remember the first time pat and I played the First Avenue in Minneapolis.

That's where they shot, I think, some parts from maybe the live. Is that right? The live segments from that movie. And that was the big thing, you know? Yeah, just to be there. Prince was here. Right. Well, he kind of owned Minneapolis, right?

He put Minneapolis on the map. And he stayed there yeah and you thought of minneapolis like you thought of prince you thought of minneapolis that was like part of the thing is that he was just this wizard that lived in this frozen land and you know produced all this crazy music they never would have arrested prince for weed no in minneapolis no no he gets all past No, yeah, he was the man in Minneapolis, I mean every he was he's a god there I wonder what it was that got him, you know, it's it's 57 years old I mean, he's a thin guy. He looked like he's healthy. He looked very healthy

He looked like he could have been mistaken for Pharrell I mean he was yeah, those two guys are like ageless, you know? And he did a show just a couple of nights ago. Yeah. Yeah. He was on tour. Um, I don't know. It's just so wild. Well, it's so hard when something like that happens. You can only speculate. You don't, no one really knows until you hear it. It just, it just reinforces this idea that we're so fragile. This, it all can go away. yeah like like i said it's like it doesn't matter how much money you have you can have the best doctors in the world and it's just you have to be thankful for what you have yeah you got to be a good human because it can just

all go away so quickly and eventually it's all going to go away for all of us yeah very soon 100 life is very short yeah it's 100 not gonna last 100 it's not gonna last nobody gets out alive right no one and still it's uh people run through life accumulating shit yeah and and missing missing opportunities to just take it all in and enjoy it. And when a guy like Prince, one of the undeniable things that he left was, I mean, you'll always have his catalog of work to make people happy. Like he left an undeniable impact on people. You know, to this day, I will pull out

I Want to Be Your Lover, because that was like the first big hit. And like, that's still to this day a fucking badass song absolutely you know what what really kills me though is when you get an artist who people just weren't ready for and they're only they're only showing love after they die yeah do you know what i mean yeah that kind of kills me that's going to be the case here you know for sure he's going to get well he was always showing love but he'll be showing a lot more love.

People will appreciate him now that they know it's ended. What you going to do? I mean, that's what happened to Michael Jackson, you know. Michael Jackson, before he died, people weren't nearly as interested in him as he was once he died. Once he died, then his catalog went through the roof and everybody wanted to buy the old stuff up. And all the print stuff is like charting now, you know. Man, I was thinking about Bill Hicks the other day and how he died. Yeah.

At his mom's in Arkansas. Well, he knew it was going down for a while. He had pancreatic cancer and it's a particularly brutal kind of cancer apparently, especially in the 90s when Bill died of it. And he knew and just went to his mom's place to die. But just thinking about that, like, you just sort of never made it, made it. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then he dies, and then all of a sudden everybody says,

oh, he was the best. He was one of the best comics of all time, you know? He was certainly one of the most influential, no doubt about it. He changed so many people's perception of what comedy could be. He opened up a whole new way. He's like, well, comedy could do that too. And everybody was like, ooh, nobody did that before. He had a consciousness to his comedy or an elevation sort of thing to his comedy

where he was trying to change your thought process along with make you laugh yeah very different thing it's hard it's hard to get to that place that's the place you always want to get to some people are just born there you know what i mean like like we're talking about prince he was prince when he started he had the third eye when he started you know what i mean i think it takes some people some time on stage to figure themselves out it takes a few years of like making mistakes listening to too many people yeah yeah you could definitely get off on bad pass and you got to recorrect come back you have to i mean there's you know there's a learning process to everything that's what's so difficult with cell phones nowadays it's like you can't learn in private you know you used to be able to go on stage and, like, practice kind of in front of people, which is the best practice, you know?

But now everything's filmed. Right. Even your shit that you're trying to work out, you can't, like, just be so free. Do you know what I mean? That's a big deal with stand-up. That's a big deal with stand-up. Absolutely. Because the bits, if you hear them and then you hear the finished product,

if you hear the starting, you should ideally hear it for the first time in a full form, in completed form. Sure. But a lot of people along the way, people enjoy that process, though, like coming to the comedy store and watching people stumble through an idea that they're not exactly sure. And then they'll see that bit maybe six months later on a television special or something. Oh, he figured it out. But he could also choose as a fan to not seek that stuff out, I think. But people do.

You know, it stops me from wanting to play songs I don't really know. Wow. Absolutely. Because you worry that a video of it getting out there, of being kind of in the halfway. Hacking my way through a new song. Yeah. I wouldn't do it. Fuck.

Absolutely. Well, have you seen some of those things? I think it's really stifled some modern performing. Have you seen some of those things that Chappelle has done and Hannibal Buress has done? They take these bags and you put your cell phone in it when you go in and it's sealed. And when you're in the room, you literally can't open the bag. And then if you leave the room, somehow there's some sensor and it allows you to open the bag. It seems like a ridiculous idea, but the more I think about it, it seems like it's the kind of thing that people may fight, but then thank you for afterwards.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah. For the experience themselves they're like holy shit i haven't really paid attention anything for an hour and a half two hours uh for years right you know what i mean well if you go to a concert now all you see is

phones up and people watching the concert through phones yeah i mean you see this you see people doing this all the time like you'll see a sea of cell phones at these arenas, and it's weird. They used to reach out and try to touch me. Now they reach out with their cell phones to try to take a picture. Did you notice a shift slowly, almost like people were infected by phones, like tics? Fuck yeah, man. I mean, when we started, I was a flip phone generation, baby. Yeah.

I know. Those are too problematic it's too hard to take a picture with some people were into it but most people left them in their pockets yeah no because the pictures sucked I mean it's not something you want to brag about now everybody's like the best photographer ever

with the iPhone yeah they're so good now and they're getting better all the time and they're also putting those little lenses on them they make them even better they slide a little lens over the top of it. You see a lot of that, but people aren't experiencing it in a pure way. You know, you're not going to it and just sitting there and taking in the show. Instead, you're going into it and you're aware that you're recording it and you want to make sure you get it in frame and you make

sure you got a good part that's going to look good on your Facebook or wherever the fuck you're going to put it, you're missing, you're not giving into the experience of the music or the show or whatever you're going to say. A hundred percent. Yeah. Life is not as good with cell phones, I think, but I have it in my hand all day long. I don't, I wouldn't say that life is not as good. It's more challenging. Because it doesn't prevent you from putting it away. But it makes it very addictive. It's very hard to put it away. But you could. I think it's the kind of thing where, like, your life would be better if you didn't have it.

You would be able to experience life more. You'd pay more attention to your kids. You'd have more real, true love. You know, you wouldn't be taking fucking selfies to post. You'd actually be hugging them genuinely. Do you know what I mean? I think. Can't do both?

I don't think so. I've not met that person. I don't know, man. I love the data, though. I love all the information. I love that. So do I. I'm addicted to it.

Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I mean, there's always something new. There's always some new story that's out. There's some new revelation, scientific invention, experiment that was done. There's some new shit always, constantly. It's like the amount of data that we're getting now is... But has it made us better?

I don't know. Do you think you're happier since you have Google in your pocket 24-7? I'm happy if someone starts talking shit and I know they're wrong. I whip out my phone. Wrong, son. You just Google. That's nice. Really?

To have the Google data. See, because before you would have left that party like, fuck, I got to learn more about something. You know what I mean? Oh, maybe. I would have left that party going, that guy is full of shit. I know he's full of shit.

I just wish I had my phone. Yeah. Well, wait. You leave parties thinking people are full of shit. I just wish I had my phone. Yeah. Wow. Wait, you leave parties thinking people are full of shit? That's weird. No. In LA? If I didn't have a phone.

Yeah, if you leave a party in LA and you don't think someone was full of shit, you're in the wrong party. There's definitely a lot of that out here. Or maybe you're just where you need to be. I can't say I really go to parties. I might have been to a dozen parties out here in my entire life. Yeah? Yeah, probably.

It's busy working. There's nobody inviting you? You just don't go. Busy working. I mean, like, at nights, first of all, I don't have a lot of friends that put on parties. That's not normal.

I mean, maybe like a pool party or something like that. You go over to a buddy's house and you'll barbecue. But that, you know, like a party party. I've been to a few of those Hollywood parties where you're walking around and you go, oh, there's Drew Barrymore. How fucking weird. And you go into another room, there's Ben Stiller.

How fucking weird. And you feel totally out of place and you gotta get out of there as quick as you can. I've been to a couple of those, but never saw them out. They always seemed odd. I don't love them so much. We stay at the Chateau often. Of course you do.

You know what I mean? That's your spot. It has to be. I mean. That's the spot in Hollywood. That's the authentic spot. It's so cliche, but I mean, I've just been there. Yeah.

Sleeping in the bed where, you know, Belushi died, just like raging. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Learning nothing from his mistakes. you know what i mean learning nothing from his mistakes you know what i mean yeah jesus christ i've woken up at that in that in that place like blood on the walls just like what happened have we learned nothing from this guy's death do you think that places like that contain memory there's's a real thought, and we've brought it up before, comics at the Comedy Store. Because the Comedy Store used to be Ciro's Nightclub.

It was owned by Bugsy Siegel, the mobster. And so there's murders that were there. There was definitely murder. There was a murder that was there just a year ago. Somebody got murdered on the front patio at the Comedy Store. Where the rich history of weirdness and of comedy, it seems to be in the walls. Do you feel like that about the chateau marmal because if you go to that place i mean is there one place more synonymous with hollywood debauchery than that

place i mean that might be the hotel in hollywood where you think of like johnny depp's doing blow and jack nicholson is banging these hookers and it's just, that's the place, right? Yeah. Uh, I, I, I think that that place just caters. I mean, as soon as you walk in, it's like this, I mean, it's dark, thick curtains, no cops, do whatever you want. Right.

You know what I mean? We'll watch, we'll guard the door. Yeah. Uh, but I think there are places that have magic in them i think that there are places that you can't you just can't explain like muscle shoals you know we cut a record of muscle shoals right it's magic really they say that you know well i know they say that native americans live there and that there's like, you know, it was spiritual land. But, I mean, it's special. There's something there that you're able to get in touch with yourself easier.

I don't know what it is. Is it something in the recording studio itself or is it something in the town? I don't think so because there are multiple studios there and they all produce great stuff. There are still great musicians coming out of Muscle Shoals. There are certain places that are just... I don't know what it is. Is it possible that those buildings, those recording studios, have memory?

That there's something, an intangible something you can't put on a scale, you can't measure it? Because the Comedy Store feels like a place with memory. Yeah. And that's why I always ask. I took seven years off that place, and I went back about a year and a half ago, and to this day, I remember going back again and going, oh, there's that feeling again. Like, this is a different place.

But did you know the history before you went into the place, though? So it was, before you even got there, it was magic to you. Yes, it was always- It was like that for me and muscle shoals i went into the studio i was like oh man yeah that's where eddie hinton you know took a shit in that bathroom right there it's like it's like uh i think that i don't know if if you didn't if somebody didn't know ahead of time and they went in there they would think it was just as magic as you did yeah maybe you're right it's one of those things you

don't know because you have these preconceived ideas about it that are just, you can't, that was Mecca for comedians. So Muscle Shoals, what did, did Skinner record there as well? Um, I think Skinner, yeah, Skinner, I think so. I'm pretty sure they recorded there. The Rolling Stones recorded there. So many. Fantastic.

Aretha recorded there and, uh, I mean, they cut so they recorded there. The Rolling Stones recorded there. So many. Fantastic. Aretha recorded there. And I mean, they cut so many tracks there. Yeah. Like this one spot. There's like a Waffle House there. There's nothing there. There's no reason anybody would go to Muscle Shoals. And it was the recording mecca.

Why? Wow. You know what I mean? It's not close to any major metropolis. It's like, you know, how else do you explain that? There's this guy named Rupert Sheldrake. I think his official title, he's an evolutionary biologist, and he thinks that there's memory in everything.

He thinks you can't extract it, but he thinks that there's memory in wood, there's memory in stones, there's memory in trees. That's why people don't like the idea of a haunted house. We kind of inherently know that if someone died in a house, some horrific tragedy took place in a house, that house actually has that sadness and that feeling in it. It's a part of the house now. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I believe it. I don't either, man.

I think we create the history in our mind before we even get there. You know what I mean? That's totally possible. Yeah. I just got a new guitar, and it was a guitar that was owned by one of my favorite musicians of all time. This guy named Mississippi, Fred McDowell. What a name. And I swear that it's magic, but you know, it's just a guitar. You know what I mean? I can feel it. It might be magic, though. I mean, it's magic but you know it's just a guitar you know what I mean I can feel it it might be magic though

I mean it might have something in it but also it might have just something in it just because you know it was his that's what I'm saying I'm just saying

but it's still real right like that that amount of magic is still real you would have to prove to me that someone felt it who didn't know ahead of time

right but not really because it works on you like magic doesn't have to work on everybody. Well, then I would explain it that I already thought it was magic. Right. Do you know what I mean? You already thought it was magic, but because you did, it is. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know if I would describe that as magic. I don't know, man. I feel like if I had a notebook that Richard Pryor wrote in, well, you'd never write in it. You would save it. That's not a good example. But like if somebody gave me like Richard, if Richard Pryor had a laptop and he wrote some great shit on his laptop

and then someone sold it and I had that laptop, I'd be like, holy shit. Magic laptop. All of a sudden it would be magic. Your jokes are just all fire. Everything you write. You would think like I have to do this laptop justice. This is the laptop of the great one. You know I have to there's no bullshitting around with this thing. Yeah. You would think about it that way. It would be that's the idea

behind like things being sacred. Is it like if things if you decide things are sacred then they are sacred. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's up to you to believe. Yeah., if you decide things are sacred, then they are sacred. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's, it's up to you to believe. Yeah. And if you treat them as sacred.

Then they become in your mind. And they're as real as you want them to be. And, and life is short. And if you want to believe in magic, then it's real. Do you know? I'm going to go run a mountain right now. God damn it, Dan. I mean, all I do every day is go into the studio and like

make something out of nothing like complete it feels like magic to me still i wake up in the morning so excited do you know what i mean it's like it feels like christmas every morning that's and that's magic to me it's like that's that's what I live for. You know? I don't even, like, but I don't know anything else. Like, I've never really had a real job. You know, I worked at my uncle's restaurant. But that, you know, that's it. That's all I've ever done.

Perfect. You don't need to do, I mean, everybody's got a different path. You don't have to do other shit. Why do anything else if you still enjoy it, you still appreciate it, and the music is amazing? Why fuck around? Sometimes it makes it hard to relate to other people. Right.

You know what I mean? Just hang around musicians only. Just stay close. Not all musicians are like that, though. Well, ones that are. Find the ones that are. I don't know, man. It's just me and Sturgill staring at each other in Nashville.

That's it. Yeah? Two of us. I've been a huge fan of the Black Keys for a long time, man. So for me to have you on is a real honor. A real treat. Thanks a lot. You guys are so interesting because the music is so hard to define.

There's different styles in different albums. And it seems like you guys go off in these like really eclectic ways and paths and there's so much content like you guys have put out so many songs you're so prolific yeah i i again like i don't know how else to do it you know i don't know what i don't understand how people go into the studio and take some fucking week to do one song they don't smoke weed i don't always smoke weed you know but i've done records not with with no we plenty of them you know but i still do two songs a day well i think you just love it and i think if you love something and you just give it that energy and it's obviously giving you a lot of positive results the thing is i think that people get so

caught up with worrying about what other people think they just like over analyze and it's obviously given you a lot of positive results. The thing is, I think that people get so caught up with worrying about what other people think. They just like overanalyze and it's so hard to get really in touch with something special when you're worrying so much about everybody else. You know what I mean? That's a real aspect of social media that I think some people struggle with. Totally. But it's a real thing too.

You know, there are a lot of very opinionated, you know, places that review music that are very like into the trends you know what i mean and i can see how that could be crippling to a kid who's just trying to like make music you know yeah well any form of criticism where people didn't like a performance even if it's correct still is painful for people to hear and if you're hearing if you like put together something and then it gets reviewed By a magazine or something it gets poorly reviewed. Yeah, but not being able to take criticism as a sign of weakness

I'm right you you know, you have to know that you have to grow into that and also Music is so ridiculously subjective And there's stuff that people love that I can't listen to sure and there's stuff that people love that I can't listen to. Sure. And there's stuff that I love that people are like, what the fuck is wrong with you? I mean, it's just always going to be that way. Sure. And you have one person's take on it and it's the best thing ever. And another person's take on it, they fell asleep halfway through it.

It's weird. Yeah. You know, there are records like that where, but then again, at the same, on, on the same hand, it's like, there are records that people played me. I'm same on on the same hand it's like there are records that people played me I'm like what the fuck is this I hate this and then five years later it's my favorite thing I wasn't ready for it I didn't quite understand it I what I did I didn't hear it in the right setting do you know what I mean set and that's also what's beautiful about music and art is

that it grows with you. It can. The best of it can really grow with you. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Hearing the right song at the right time can leave like a psychic imprint on you of that song. And you always will associate that song with that moment. Sure.

Powerful moments. Yeah. Things that change you forever. How old were you when you started doing music? I was always around music. My dad had a great record collection, always playing music. My mom played piano, and her whole family played bluegrass. Oh, wow.

So that's what made me want to play music, was I wanted to play music with my uncles. They sat around in circles, and my aunt, and they would play Stanley Brothers songs. My grandma died. We all sang around her her um grave you know i mean it's just like music is a real part of my my family wow so it's just always been there that must have been crazy you all sat around her grave and sang yeah we sang our favorite songs whoa it was really nice that is really nice angel band by this by the Stanley Brothers. It's one of my favorite songs ever. How many people were saying? six wow six people we brought our instruments Mm-hmm a lot of crying

Uh, I'm crying just thinking about it. No No, I mean it was it was her favorite thing you know it was her she loved to sit in the living room and listen to her kids play music it was like

and it's the reason I'm here now wow it really is I mean because music has just really been such a part of my life well that's awesome when someone finds something

that they really just tune into like that then you see them just pursuing it with such wild abandon. I mean, that's what everybody, as a fan, that's what someone hopes for the most. That the person who puts out the sound that you love is really into it and does it all the time. Yeah, no, it's been the only thing i can really focus on since i was about 15 wow yeah i mean girls and music was pretty much it i stopped messing around with sports really yeah that was it well you guys figured it out man i guess i don't know that's that i mean we put up

like five records before we even had a song on the radio. Yeah, but people were already talking about it before you guys had songs on the radio. You had such an authentic sound that you already had a lot of momentum, but it was the cool thing to like that no one knew about yet. We had a great fan base before we had radio success. Yeah, we've been really blessed. Like every year was better than the one before. What is your take on what's going on now with radio? Because it must be strange to watch this business go from being something where you buy an actual physical thing to digital

downloads. And what has it been like to watch us all move into the internet? It's pretty depressing. It's really depressing. I don't think people can make connections with music like they used to. You know, when you owned something and you sat with it and listened, you know? Yeah, like sat. I had an uncle. It's just too disposable. Yeah.

You know? Like sitting down with an album, opening the album, putting the headphones on. Yeah, and not to even talk about how the artists are treated with streaming. I mean, it's album, putting the headphones on. Yeah, not to even talk about how, you know, how the artists are treated with streaming. I mean, it's just, it's totally criminal. Well, the streaming thing is weird, right? It's criminal. Well, explain it. I mean, I don't know, like, I couldn't tell you numbers, but, you know, I mean, just like YouTube, you know, they just pay artists fractions of what they should be paying and it's just it's not treated like a real um

valued thing anymore you know what i mean well we were discussing this the other day about streaming services that one of the weirdest things about it is all they're selling is artists work right i mean that's all you have you can't stream anything unless someone creates it that's all you have so that is what you anything unless someone creates it. That's all you have. So that is what you're selling. So who's making all the money and why? And what's, you know, what is, how has that worked out? And right now there's a lot of opportunism going on. And a lot of people are jockeying for a better slice of the pie and a better position.

But we were talking about Spotify and all those different things and how little money the artists actually get out of it it's weird it is weird it is weird isn't it i mean can you imagine like going playing gigs at the more theater and then saying oh we're just going to pay you uh streaming money not the real gig money you know what i mean it would be like that would make no sense right i mean it's kind of the same thing. I mean, you have a product that you invested your time and money into. It should be no different, really, right? Well, I think there should be some sort of established number. You should be able to figure out how much money are they making from it.

Like, how much money are they making if they play one of your albums? Drew, do you know? Streaming? Yeah. How much money are they making if they play one of your albums? Drew? Do you know? Streaming? Yeah. Usually.005 cents for a click. .005 cents for a click for those. And if you buy the album, how much is it per song? How much are they paying per song?

For a physical copy. If you buy the album on iTunes or on a CD? CD or iTunes. What's the comparison to those? If a song is 99 cents, you're looking at 30, 40 cents. No one can hear you, but he said if the song is 99 cents, you're looking at 30 or 40 cents. As compared to streaming, which is, what did you say it was? 0.0005.

Is that what you said? Yeah. Oh, for time songs click. So every time someone clicks on it. Oh, God. This is mass consumption. It's weird.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it all started with being able to put it on a server somewhere, right? It all started from being digital. That's where things got odd, where you could take someone's stuff and you don't need any special recording equipment to make copies. You make a copy on your computer instantaneously. You upload that copy and then that copy is shared by X amount of people who just continually download it and share it.

Things get weird. They get real weird when it becomes a digital entity, something that's out there in space, and then figuring out how you make money off of it. But I would feel like a streaming platform, all they have is someone's work. If no one lets them put their stuff up then they don't have anything right yeah like the only benefit for you guys would be more exposure which would help like ticket sales you know the the major record labels own portions of these streaming services too oh it gets pretty deep I mean it's it's it's just intertwined nastiness and the artist pretty much

falls at the bottom of the barrel. So the record labels have done the same thing that they used to do with physical records, and now they've done it with the streaming thing. They've just hamstringed everybody. Wow, that's great. So should people not use those streaming services? Is that the way to go? I mean, ultimately, probably.

I mean, artists probably shouldn't allow it, but it's like... not use those streaming services is that the way to go i mean ultimately probably i mean we artists probably shouldn't allow it but it's like um you can't yeah you know you have to put it on there i don't know so i should have come i should have come with a spreadsheet do you have the options like do you have the option yeah so like when they come to you and they say hey dan we would want to put all your... Absolutely. And you could say, no, thank you. Yeah. Is that what you say, or do you let them put it up there?

We don't have anything on Tidal, but we have it on iTunes. They still pay it. They pay the highest royalty rate, right? iTunes? On a download? Yeah. How's Google Play? Because they have that now, right?

I have no idea. That's the newest one? I have no idea. You know, Google kind of, they co-own YouTube. So they get all that YouTube money. Right. But don't they have to pay for like bandwidth and shit too? Isn't that all that expensive?

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. But it's weird how the world just changed. It's like, I'm a musician. Now I have to worry about fucking this business side of shit now. We all have to know about who owns all these little portions of this shit. I mean, it's like that's why we get taken advantage of.

Because we're just trying to be artists and trying to make music. We have to become college professors to even figure out our record deals. Do you know what I mean? It's really unfair. And when you sign a kid to a record deal, it's like they pretty much are signing their life on the line. I'm sure you've read that piece that Courtney Love wrote years back. I don't think I've ever read anything Courtney Love has written. It was pretty famous because a lot of people accused her of using a ghostwriter because it was so well done. But it was a piece breaking down. If you didn't know that she

was the one who wrote it, you would go, whoa, this is a scathing review of how the money is distributed in the record business. And, uh, it was pretty shocking when you look at it from terms of actual revenue to what actually trickles down to the artist was the only thing that they're

selling. The artists work and how these, these contracts are set up to fuck people over, but they've been around forever. And there's these giant machines, right? They have so many employees. and how these contracts are set up to fuck people over. But they've been around forever, and there's these giant machines, right? They have so many employees. They kind of have to justify keeping all these buildings and having all these employees. There's a lot of money that needs to be earned just to keep this thing floating, right?

Well, it got so engorged. Yeah, it's a tick. At the height of physical sales, right? Yeah. It's hard to like get used to a certain lifestyle,

right? I mean, you're going to move back into an apartment next week and like, yeah, it would suck. You wouldn't want to.

You'd try to figure out how to, you might cut his pay a little bit maybe to offset, you know? That's what they did. Yeah.

They just wanted to keep, well, they had to downsize quite a bit. I used to love record stores. I mean, record stores... The last real job I had was in a record store. Really? The last time I was ever really taxed before being a musician. I worked at Kwanzaa Hut Records in Akron, Ohio.

And it was awesome. I learned so much there. I learned so much cool shit. People hit me with so much great music that I never would have heard of. Well, back then that was the way you could find out about it. You go to the record stores and aficionados would let you know about guys who dedicated their lives to learning about this stuff. You know what I mean? Like essentially college professors of music. Yeah. Right. The guys that I worked with were pretty much geniuses. They were all like 45, 55 year old guys with like their living room is just all records you know what i mean

and they would teach me things every time i would go in they're like oh so you've never heard this well then you got to hear this and you got to hear this and it changed me you know isn't it funny that that is not like a respected quality in the mainstream world, but being a Somalier is. You know what I mean? Being a guy who can, like, swish wine around and tell you what part of France it was grown, like, that's something we look at and we go, oh, he's a sophisticated Somalier. But, like, oh, that dude, he knows a lot about 60s jazz.

Nobody gives a shit. Nobody gives a shit. Yeah, you're a loser. I don't give a shit about Somalier stuff, so, don't know you gotta come up with a different yeah comparison but you know what i mean like for a lot of people it's sure it's a it's a big fancy schmancy type well you know i mean it's all it's all a bunch of horseshit i mean it's like just because you don't have a college degree in it yeah it's not taken seriously But what really is a college degree at the end of the day? Well, when it comes to music,

I mean, imagine if the only good musicians were musicians who had PhDs in music theory. It would be like North Korea. I mean, could you even put together the kind of music that you guys made? If you really thought about it in that way, your stuff is so uniquely creative. You guys had a sound for a lot of your songs. You would hear it, and even though it was interesting and unique and different from the previous song, you could tell it was a Black Keys song.

It was coming from two guys. was it was coming from two guys you know it's clearly coming from two guys i think as soon as you add a lot of theory and overproduction and different people overseeing things and looking for the right amount of beats per minute and all that jazz listen man it's like the greatest people are just the greatest people. When you, if you could be around Richard Pryor and watch him, you would feel the magic. You would see the way he walks, the way he touches his lips, the way he, you know, like when I'm hanging out with Dr. John, I see it. I'm like, holy shit. This guy is like from another planet.

You know what I mean? He just, you can't teach that. It's just, it's total magic, you know? I can't even imagine like in LA, Dr. John used to be here doing session work. Well, that's like when Phil Spector was making records and stuff like that, you know? It would be a studio full of Dr. Johns. People that just had their own thing about them. You know what I mean?

Total self-confidence, their own style, no theory, no bullshit. It was just like, this is what he does and we're going to incorporate this with 12 other guys who have their own thing. It's like magic you know what i mean and that's the cool thing about studios we kind of lose now because people can't afford to have studios and things change so much over time it gets depressing the more i work with

these older older guys who are just insane it's just so hard to describe you know it really is feels like magic was it because everything they were doing was completely analog? No, because it was a performance and you had to like, not only did you have to come up with the part on the spot, you had to kind of improvise.

You had to play perfectly behind the beat. You had to like, you had to just like, I don't, it's just hard to explain. You had to just kind of be able to understand the nuance of everything going on around you. And there's less of that now? I think that it's harder when people don't get to record together and make music together, which is the case. You know what I mean?

Because it's, you don't really make money playing music unless you reach a certain level. And it's so much harder to now than it ever was before. It's harder to reach a certain level. Yeah. It's just, but doesn't YouTube and things along those lines don't, doesn't it help some people reach a higher level quicker without the need for mainstream media?

I don't know. You don't know. I don't know. Beats me. I don't know anybody who like got their start on YouTube. Didn't honey, honey band, didn't they become famous from YouTube?

I think that's what started it all. Well, it's a combination of things. It's hard to nail down on one. Yeah, I mean, we didn't do that. I mean, we were like hit the road and we like playing shows and we just kept, you know, hitting up city. So I just, I wouldn't know.

Right. I don't know. I don't have experience with that. So tell me about the Arcs. Well, the Arcs is just a group of friends of mine who I've made records with for years. Guys who make some of my favorite records. Leon Michaels, Richard Swift, Homer Steinweiss, and Nick Mochon.

They're just great musicians. And we've made different records together in various forms for different people. And then when we had free time, we would record for ourselves, just for fun, just making stuff up. And Leon and I, about a year and a half ago, got together just to categorize them, put them in a folder to see what we had. And we had like 70 songs well we're just sitting there so we're like what are we doing you know let's let's uh figure out a way to like share this music and um so we just kind of came up with the arcs and that was our platform that's insane you had 70 songs 70 songs yeah i mean every time we get in the studio together with like two or

three songs we'll just we can just make them up you know Wow when you go into the studio do you have any idea if you're if you're in a session where you might improvise and come up with new stuff do you have any idea of what direction you're gonna go in or do you have a concept or do you just go free ball you kind of i just always uh free ball i guess have you always done it that way yeah so for the most part i mean i i don't i have had some songs written ahead of time but that's more recently when i started it we it was complete we're just making shit up i mean black keys album we're just totally improvised and so when you improvise would you have someone recording it as you're doing it or would you write

it all ourselves we did it all ourselves so in the basement it was just the two of us and we had a four track cassette recorder then we had like a digital recorder um yeah no i mean we didn't have anybody helping us wow well that's why it was so. Well, that's why it was so cool. I mean, that's why it was such a, you know, there's. I'll do big sessions now and there'll be like an assistant running around, like taking notes, like what guitar I'm using and shit. And I'm like, oh, this is kind of fun. Distraction. It's so interesting. No, I mean, but it's just, I just never had that, you know, growing up.

It just feels so weird. So would you guys record it initially as you were improvising it, or would you improvise it and get it down and then record it? We would improvise it. Usually, like, the first or second take is the one that's best, even with the mistakes. It has the best feeling. For me, the more that you focus on stuff, I guess the more boring it gets. You lose that, lose that initial spark.

Dude, what a fucking cool life you have. You make cool sounds. And then you release them. I'm not complaining. Fuck, man. It's so cool the way you describe it, too. You just kind of go in there and fall into the trance and make the sounds and for me it's only gotten better the feeling i mean i you know i work harder than anybody i know

i get up in the morning i start working and i don't work till i'm asleep i don't stop till i'm asleep you know every day so do you think of it as work or do you think of it as like when i get paid i think of it as work but when i'm doing it i never think of it as work or do you think of it as like when i get paid i think of it as work but when i'm doing it i never think of it as work so when the checks come it's work it was must have done some work and while you're doing it it's just passion like how would you describe yeah it's i feel so lucky being able to go in the studio i love hearing shit like this man go and living in nashville too which is a place that is music city usa you know i mean you know you could argue that rock and roll started there with you know pretty woman

right that riff was done wayne moss did that riff right down the street um uh you know it's just like i just love that stuff i love learning from those guys i love being around that it's just so much fun for me you know you know i had um wheeler walker jr in here the other day and uh we were talking about nashville and he was talking about the money machine being behind nashville now and how strange it is that you have some real music in that town but then you also have this stuff that is just concocted because it looks like it would do numbers in Walmart. Yeah.

But, you know, where doesn't that happen at some level? It's a music business. Yeah, you're always going to have that, right? Yeah, it's a business. I mean, you're always going to have douche holes making a lot of money, a lot more money than you, you know what I mean? But the thing that's so great about that i don't fucking ever see that i'm never around that i don't fuck with that at all you know what i mean and i've been in nashville six years seven years something like that but the thing that's so cool about that is they really do

uh hold up that infrastructure and like if I run out of tape I make a phone call and somebody delivers me reel-to-reel tape in like 10 minutes really where else can you did that happen you know what I mean if that big business wasn't going on it wouldn't make it so easy for me to be around so many great musicians a lot of these country guys that I work with you know they're embarrassed with some of the shit that they play on. They won't tell me because they're so embarrassed how bad it is.

But it's the reason they're there and healthy and able to come in and work with me. You know what I mean? Right. So you can't complain about it and then reap all the benefits. You know what I mean? So I understand there's like positive and negatives.

That's very honest of you. That's a good way of looking at it too. That's a very good perspective because it's not like it hurts you you know if you drive down the street you see a burger king it doesn't hurt you if you don't go in there and eat i i'm i make a living playing music in nashville and i'm i never see it that's interesting well you just surround yourself with a tight-knit group i guess i never leave home so well yeah that's how you never see it yeah nashville is for for a lot of musicians like that is the that's the remaining mecca right um well for for certain musicians people love country and bluegrass it's definitely the place to be you know bluegrass still lives in nashville more than anywhere else i'd say it seems like this is a really good time for country it seems like country is experiencing

a resurgence right now like real country yeah i think that um i have no idea really i don't know what to say about that no i don't know man know, man. You were in the mix, though. I was going to say something stupid about people buying records at Walmart, but I don't know, man. Whatever. That's very nice of you to pull back. What a good guy. You felt it. You're like, eh.

Look at me getting smart with age. It's also weed. Weed has me double, triple thinking stuff, too. Pull it back, son. No need for conflict. No, I mean, I mean, it's, you know, country fans

buy more out, more physical copies than anyone. Oh, really? By far, yeah. No kidding? Yeah, absolutely. Really?

Huh. They probably still use those CD things. Probably have those Walkmans, those big hip ones with the big... Why are they always yellow? Why are those things always yellow?

Yeah, that's a good question. And they just like. Yeah, they can never be black. They're always yellow. That's true. It's like hazard. There was like a hazard to them or something. Like they were big.

All I wanted was that big yellow disc and a Tony Hawk skateboard. That's like all I ever wanted. Well, I remember when they figured out a way to have some sort of buffering so that when you were playing the CD, you could actually jump around a little bit and move, and it wouldn't skip. It was crazy. What did they call that? I remember when that happened. There's a name for that. ESP.

ESP? 10-second ESP. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, it was a buffering that they had, and it was a magical thing. Skip protection, something. Yeah, something. Electronic skip protection is what it is?

Yeah, it is. And protection is what it is? There it is. And then once they figured out how to go digital, all that shit died. Can you imagine? They used to have record players in cars. Did they? Yeah. For real?

Some early cars used to have that option. Wow. My friend Javier, his mom had an 8-track. I never forgot. We listened to Pablo Cruz. When my baby smiles at me, I go to Rio. And it was in those 8-track things. I'm like, what is this crazy space-age contraption this lady has in her car? Just push this box in there, and it plays music.

It was amazing, you know? Oh, look at this. This is crazy. There you go. We're looking at a woman playing 45s in her car. What kind of car is it? That's a record player. This is nuts.

That is nuts. It's a record player like where the ashtray sort of? That's a record player. This is nuts. That is nuts. It's a record player like where the ashtray sort of would be in a conventional car. Wow. That's crazy. Every two and a half minutes, you have to look down and flip a record. Can you imagine? Those old cars, man.

There was something about those old cars, too. They were a rolling piece of artwork as well there was some design and art to them that just you can't once you start going with aerodynamics and miles per gallon and air bags and yeah shit happening on the dash it's like yeah there's something with those cars it's just so extraordinary i got to see a car the other day with just this digital touchscreen thing it was like tesla was it a Tesla? No. I've never been in a Tesla. I don't remember what it was, but... God, it was just so weird.

Yeah, a lot of the electric cars have real crazy setups now. Very strange. Yeah. Well, the Tesla is a giant screen, like an enormous laptop screen, like a big computer screen. Like, that's what a Tesla screen looks like. I mean, it's like a crazy laptop.

Well, that's not a distraction, is it? By the way, you can get email on that and websites. Show me my flight path. You can. You can do all that kind of stuff. You can do Spotify on that, too. You can press a little button and ask it to play Michael Jackson. It'll play Michael Jackson songs.

That's so stupid. It's so big. It totally seems like it's in the way. It is a huge flat screen on your dash, man. Is that a YouTube video of that guy on the right-hand side? You can play YouTube videos while you drive. That's so dangerous. Did you see that guy that got killed in Detroit?

He was jacking off in his car. He crashed his car with his pants down, died in the accident. He was watching porn, jacking off as he was driving. And the state troopers, when they got to the wreck, dude had his pants down, porn playing on his phone. Oh, man, his kids must be so bummed out. His pants-lit driver in Detroit dies in wreck watching porn. Did they use his name? Got it.

Yep, Clifford Ray Jones. Oh, shit. Partially ejected through the sunroof when his 1996 Toyota rolled and he was thrown from the vehicle and died. He wasn't wearing pants, police told the Detroit News. Oh, well.

Driver inattention is a leading factor in most crashes and near crashes. Okay. Wait a second. What was he doing? Was he watching a movie? He was jacking off. He was watching porn with his pants off. They said it was a 96 Corolla.

Where the fuck did he get the screen in there? Well, he had it in his phone. He was watching porn on his phone and jerking off. Yeah. Oh, God. Kid's an animal. He was 58. Oh, my God.

You retard. He should have known better. Old people in electronics, man. Yeah. I finally figured out how to get porn. That wasn't because he was jerking off. It was just because he was old. Maybe.

You never know. You never know. Are you a car guy? Are you into cars? No, not really. No? I mean, I've got a couple old cars, but no. A couple old cars?

Mm-hmm. That's what I figured you for. I figured you for like an MG or something like that. I've got an old Ford panel van that I drive around town. A panel van? Yeah, 1960 Ford. You talking about like wood panels on the side? No, just a green work truck with barn doors that open on the back.

Really? Yeah. I used to deliver newspapers in one of those. I had a Dodge just like that. I love it, man. What do you drive a van for? It's not like a van. It looks pretty cool.

Yeah? Yeah. I mean, it's kind of beat up. I don't have to worry about it. Is that why you like it? Or you can store stuff in it? Yeah, I like it.'s kind of beat up. I don't have to worry about it. Is that why you like it? Or you can store stuff in it? Yeah, I like it. I can carry all my equipment in it.

It's really easy. It holds five people. And if people want to sit in the back, it holds ten. I don't know. So, dude, you're just all about getting your music done. You don't even give a fuck. You're driving around in a panel van, getting it all beat up. I bought a new BMW like four years ago.

I still have it. It's like starting to fall apart already. Really? Yeah. All these like things keep flashing and like. Do you take it? I get notices in the mail, you know, recall notices. Really?

From a BMW? Yeah, airbag may shoot shrapnel at you, you know, it's like. What model BMW did you get? It's a, what's it called? The X. X5? X5, it's a diesel. Oh, okay.

That's your problem. Which is a total pain in the ass, trying to find diesel gas. Yeah, that's gross, too. Well, the only thing about diesel that's cool is you could grow your own. Oh, I grow my own. Do you make your own diesel?

No, no, no. Neil Young does. Nobody grows their own diesel. No, Neil Young does. No, he doesn't. He makes his own biodiesel. He pays somebody to grow his own diesel and he makes money off it, okay? You might be right. But I think he was trying to be self-sustaining though. So he might not be selling it. Well, maybe he is. That's cool. He's got some amazing cars. Yeah. He has a gigantic ranch in Northern California, and he does grow his own biodiesel. And he has his cars converted to use it. Yeah, right. I've heard about that ranch.

Like he bought it early from the farmer. Yeah, and he has some crazy sound system set up on his lake where he can get in a boat, allegedly. Someone told us this, I believe, on the podcast. where you can get in a boat, allegedly. Someone told us this, I believe, on the podcast. And he gets out on this boat, and he has the sound system set up where the acoustics are perfect when he's in the middle of this pond that he has.

And so he has these speakers set up on the side and around the pond, and it just blasts the perfect sound that echoes off the water. Epic. Yeah. He's a bad motherfucker. He's the reason why I had to quit work in security at Great Woods in Mansfield, Massachusetts when I was 19.

Because a riot broke out during a Neil Young concert. Because people were lighting fires. Have you ever been to Great Woods? No. Great Woods Performance Center is... Maybe I have. It's an outdoor amphitheater? Yeah.

It's an amphitheater. It's covered up into the back area, which is called the lawn. And the back area was literally like a sweeping lawn, and those are cheap receipts. Sure. And when Neil Young was there, people started fires there. They just started lighting garbage on fire, and then fights broke out, and then it was just chaos. And I had a jacket. I put a hoodie on over my security guard jacket.

I fucking put my hoodie on. I was like, I quit. I walked out of there. I was like, I quit. I walked out of there. I'm like, fuck this place. And I'll never forget, the last time I worked was during a Neil Young concert. And as I was leaving, people were punching people and there was fire.

And I was like, I got to get the fuck out of here. I've worked at one of those amphitheaters, Blossom Music Center. Oh, yeah? Where's that? Outside of Cleveland, Richfield. Another Ohio boy right there. You know Blossom Music Center, yeah.

Columbus. I used to, me and my buddies used to be the guys in the parking lot with the flags. Why are so many bad motherfuckers from Ohio? What's going on? Why is that state so badass? I don't know. I think that it had a lot of money with all the industry. So it had a lot of art.

But now that the industry's gone, it's kind of, it's a struggle a bit, but the art's still there. Right. And the culture. The culture, right. The understanding that there's respect for art, I think, I don't know.

I just totally made that up. You might be right. That might make sense. Did that sound... There's something. There's a bunch of astronauts are from Ohio. Tons of famous... A lot of people I've met just here since I've lived here are from Ohio.

Just hanging around. Yeah. It's a badass place to do stand-up, too. It's one of my favorite places. One of the female astronauts who died in the Challenger explosion went to my high school. Where was the female astronaut from that wore the diaper that went to the guy's house to kill him? Remember that one?

She wore the diaper to drive all the way across the country so she didn't have to stop to pee? What was she going to do? She was going to kidnap some girl or something? I remember that. I remember that. Any girl is willing to fucking wear a... Astronaut charged with attempted murder.

Anytime a chick is willing to wear a diaper. You fucked her up so bad, she wants to wear a diaper to come and get you. I mean, would you think that a female astronaut would, like... She doesn't play games. She wants to win. She does not play games. She's got the right stuff, dude. Absolutely.

A rival for another astronaut's affection. Yeah, Absolutely. Arrival for another astronaut's affection. Yeah, she attacked a rival for another astronaut's affection at the Orlando International Airport on Monday after driving more than 900 miles from Houston to meet her flight. Whoa. Okay, so this girl was flying, and this crazy bitch said, I'm going to fucking meet you there. Wearing a diaper, shitting herself. She only had a four-inch blade and a BB gun, though. She's an astronaut.

It's all she needs. She'd kill that bitch with a Pop-Tart. I didn't know that astronauts knew how to kill people. Did they teach you that? They're Americans, goddammit. They learn. I wonder, man. I wonder what she knew.

Maybe she just wanted to claw her eyes out or something, just bite her in the face or something. Yikes. Maybe she didn't really want to kill her. She had a BB gun, though, and a map to the house. Well, listen, anybody who's wearing a diaper ain't thinking that straight. Maybe she didn't know it was a BB gun when she picked it up. That's awesome.

She had a map to the house. Little X. Well, do you know the story about the guy who broke into the White House? Only one guy ever broke into the White House during the Obama administration. And I've been researching it. Is he the only one who's ever broken into the White House? He's the only guy who's ever breached. During the Obama administration. Yeah.

He had in his car two rifles, four handguns, 800 rounds of ammunition two hatchets and a machete and he broke into the White House with a knife on him and he only got 18 months that's what's really crazy he said well he had PTSD did he just drop out of the roof like ha well he had a plea deal

he barged through the door and there was a woman security guard and she couldn't stop him he was too big and he ran past her and he got deep in he got deep in the White House like deeper than they had originally admitted did he uh Did he have a map like with X at the end? That's what I was gonna say he had a map like White House X This dumb fuck this guy was completely out of his mind, but the crazy thing is he only got 18 months uh-huh

I know a guy was in jail for 10 years for growing weed He's in federal penitenti jail for 10 years for growing weed. He's in federal penitentiary for 10 years for growing weed. Yeah. And this guy got 18 months for having an arsenal in his car and breaking into the White House with a knife. Idiocracy, man. Maybe. You see that cop in New York just got

convicted of manslaughter but didn't get any jail time? Which cop? Which story? Just happened the other day. I forget. Do you know what the case was? I think it was at one of those cases where he had the duty, where he was in the, like, kind of sort of patrolling the stairwells and projects,

which sounds horrifying. No jail time for ex-NYPD officer after manslaughter conviction reduced to criminally negligent homicide. Huh. What is it saying he did, Jamie? I don't know. I'm just saying it seems like every day there's just something that doesn't make any sense. Well, there's definitely a lot of stuff that doesn't make any sense, and also a lot of stuff you have to deal with if you're a fucking cop. I think this is a subject that requires balance.

I think there's a lot of terrible things that cops have done, and it's obvious. We've seen videos of it. We saw that cop shoot that guy in the back running away and then throw the taser on him. We've all seen horrible shit. We've seen it. I think these guys are shell-shocked.

I think there's a vast majority of the people out there that are operating as police officers that are barely keeping it together. I think it's a hard job, and I think those guys are under stress all the time every day might be the end of their life every car they pull over might be someone who shoots them you walk into places and you're hated instantly instantly everybody's lying it should be the opposite yeah everybody's lying to you and on on top of that they've set them up as the enemy as the enemy by making them glorified revenue collectors pulling people over for having a fucking you know traffic ticker you know your your your blinkers

not working or your license plates expired all shit that has nothing to do with crime you know i think there's a lot of that going on where they give them quotas on speeding tickets and they turn them into the enemy you're taking money from people you're stealing from people they're being used they're being used and yeah and it's not right well i just always hope that with when people talk about stuff like this and all these videos that are getting out and people the awareness of it that it'll bounce back the other way and then people realize it and the people somehow or another it'll be a self-correcting thing. You think that's going to happen? I don't know.

I don't think so. You don't think it's in time that things are self-correcting? I think that some famous white person has to die and then maybe it'll get corrected. Oh, white people, I see. Hmm. Might be. Might be right. Yeah.

It seems to be when people take notice. I saw that interview that you did with that ex-Baltimore cop. Yeah, he's coming back in. Boy, that was like, that should be required viewing. Yeah, he's running for chief of police of Chicago. He wants to take over Chicago. He thinks he can make some leeway. He's going to come in and talk about that.

That's what an uphill battle that would be. Well, if anybody's going to do it, it's going to be a guy like him, a radical thinker. I don't mean fighting the crime. I mean, I mean, changing the politics. Yeah. That would be the uphill battle. But both would be a problem. You know, Chicago became a bloodbath after they started arresting key gang members that were in control of drug distribution. So they created a power vacuum. And, you know, much like has happened. Isn't that why they call it Chirac? What's that?

Isn't that why they call it Chirac? Is that what they call it? Yeah. Whoa. They call it Chirac. You knew that? Jamie's on black Twitter on a regular basis. A Spike Lee movie just came out.

He called it that, too. That was in the Spike Lee movie? That's what they call it. That's what locals call it. I'm so white. Because it's a war a war zone yeah it is a war zone but it's essentially i didn't know that but it seems like kind of the same thing where you take out people in power and then it's just chaos well we were there um about a year and a half ago and there was a guy who uh i was talking with down there that used to be a cop, and now he was a limo driver.

And he was telling me what it was like. And it's always been a problem. He's like, but then when they decided to go and make some key arrests, they had created a bit of a power vacuum. And then it all ramped up where people were trying to, and then there's also like once the violence is ramped up, then people want to respond to that violence, and it ramps it up even more. And how do you stop that? So once the violence is ramped up, then people want to respond to that violence, and it ramps it up even more.

How do you stop that? But if anybody knows, it's going to be a guy like Michael Wood. It's going to be a guy who was a former cop, worked in Baltimore, who understands what it's like. What does he think about drugs? Does he think they're going to need to be legalized? Yeah, I think so. I don't think he's locking people up for anything that they want to do. I think everybody agrees to that. they want to do i think everybody agrees to that i mean this there's those non-violent crimes like to have these prisons filled up with non-violent crimes is very bizarre especially when it's not

violent it's embarrassing it is embarrassing we shouldn't be embarrassed we should be we fucking ruined so many people's lives yeah and it doesn't look like they're gonna do anything about it people make too much money. People with political influence. Well, private prisons. And then when that judge got caught in Pennsylvania for taking young kids and locking them up in jail for money and that he was getting some sort of a kickback from these detention institutes where they would send young juvenile detention,

man, just to know that there's people out there that are working in justice that would be willing to take money and sacrifice some young kid's future. Yeah. I mean, that's really, really scary that these are the people that we've led justice to. That's heinous. I mean, I get so scared thinking about my kids. You know, I mean, every single day you see crazy shit.

Yeah. You see some like, you know some black kid killed by a cop. It's like, Jesus Christ. It's like never ending. It does make me kind of want to not leave my house sometimes. It's awful, but it's also awful. Black kids killed by black kids. White kids killed by white kids.

I mean, just violence in and of itself. It's such a, at this point in our lives. I guess it's because I'm only ever going to Worldstar. Well, you should get off of Worldstar. My favorite video of Worldstar was this week. See the one with the little cub wrestling a dog? Holy Jesus Christ. I didn't see that.

This little baby bear fucked this dog up. It was a grown dog, man. And this little tiny bear. And it looked like the dog was fucking with the bear. And then the bear was like, bitch, just grabbed it by his head and just ragdolling him it's on my instagram it is crazy like you can't believe how strong this little tiny bear is in comparison to a full-grown dog that's twice his size he just throws him around like look at this look at this dog is fucking he's like bitch yikes like he just he. He ragdolls this dog. Watch the dog

gets up. Watch his hip toss. Watch this act right here. Boom. Dude, that's technique. Look how he takes side control. That dog knows what the fuck's going on. Or that bear, rather. Wait a second. Play that again and do the commentary. That was cool. I'll show you exactly what's going on here. See, the dog's fucking with him. He's like, no, bitch. He got the Muay Thai clinch, first of all. He gets the plum around the neck, ragdolls him to the ground. Dog's trying to reach around behind him. He adjusts, flips the dog on his back.

And then look at that hip toss. The hip toss at the end is huge. He's got the scarf hold. He's holding on to the neck. That's your thing. It's huge. That hip toss is huge because he established his position. He did.

But he gave it up very quickly. Well, because he's smart. He knew he was going to get reversed. Well, apparently the dog has jiu-jitsu and the bear wanted to stay standing up. The dog's just big. He's a goon. The bear wanted to keep it up. The dog's a goon.

The bear's going to win eventually. He's going to have to cook him. It's going to take some time. Trust me. I got money on the bear. Did you say the dog is a goon? Yeah, he's a goon. How dare you?

A goon is when you roll with someone and they're not good. They're just strong. And they throw you off of them. You just got to ride the boat. You got to figure out a way to ride the boat. Isn't that like most people with big muscles, though? A lot of people with big muscles. I mean, I'm a boxing fan.

And when somebody walks into the ring and they've got a lot of muscles, I pretty much automatically know they're going to lose. I got two words for you. Mike Tyson. That's what you get when you get big muscles and intelligence and a deep knowledge of boxing. Yeah, totally. You get both things. But most of the time you don't. Most of the time you don't.

But when you did, like when Mike Tyson was in his prime, it was so terrifying because there wasn't a guy like that before him. because there wasn't a guy like that before him. This super fast, ridiculously powerful guy just came in with perfect technique, bobbing and weaving, throwing bombs at you. Yeah, his side-to-side movement was just so terrifying. Oh, my God. That little bear would fuck him up,

grab a hold of his dick, throw him to the ground, flip him over on his back. I don't know, man. Have you seen him with his tigers? Yeah, he's crazy. Charlie Murphy had one of the funniest stories ever told on this back. I don't know, man. You seen him with his tigers? Yeah, he's crazy. Charlie Murphy had one of the funniest stories ever told on this podcast. We told about

how he pulled up to Mike Tyson's house with a bunch of his friends, and they were all in limos and nobody wanted to get out of the car, because Mike Tyson was on the front lawn with a fucking lion. He's got like a lion, and he's got an actual real lion, and nobody wanted to get it out of the cars.

Or was it a tiger, or was it a lion? One of those things. But it's an animated thing. Oh, he's got a tiger there. He had a gang of cats. How rich do you have to get before you start collecting zoo animals? Well, he was insane wealthy living in Vegas. That seems to be the thing. You get a monkey, you get a tiger.

Well, a lot of fighters wind up getting very dangerous animals. That was a big thing with a lot of fighters wind up getting very dangerous animals that was a that was a big thing with a lot of fighters i was wondering what did he do with these things once he couldn't handle like what fight it like who what kind of animals a lot of boxers get pit bulls that's real common a lot of uh kickboxers and mma fighters get pit bulls yeah real common they just want to be around something that's as badass as them. Sure. Or it makes them feel badass. And insist they're safe.

Yeah. Well, you'll be safe. It's other people that you've got to worry about. If you have a pit bull, most of the time you're safe. If it's your dog, it's very rare that a pit bull attacks its owner. Very rare. They want to please people. And it's not even normal for them to go after people usually the only times those dogs go after people

is when they're abused or trained for it I totally believe you but I wouldn't let my kids around one no, children is different because children are small children are part of my life I totally understand but children are part of everybody's life so it's like when you get a pit bull

you're basically saying half the population can't be around me. You could say that, but the problem is it's not worth the risk to make the exception, but there are some people's dogs that are amazing. I used to have this pit bull named Lucy. She was the sweetest dog ever to everybody. Kids, anybody, babies. No, I have a friend with a really sweet pit bull.

It didn't matter. She loved everybody. But when people would see her, they'd be like, is that a pit bull? And really sweet pit bull. It didn't matter. She loved everybody. But, you know, when people would see her, they'd be like, is that a pit bull? And they'd freak out. She was the nicest dog ever. Yeah. But then you'll have other dogs

that are just not like that at all. You know, they're dangerous. They're tricky. And you never know because they all look the same. Like, you'd have to get to know the dog. And you have to know the history of the dog and the dog's parents' history. And, you know, I have this dog that's a mastiff. And he's a Mastiff, and he's a smaller Mastiff.

It's called a Regency Mastiff. He is the sweetest dog I have ever had in my life, and the reason why is because the guy who raised him, when he described it to me, he's like, it's all about the parents, and it's all about not letting parents that exhibit any weird behavior breed. He's like, if you're going to breed a really nice dog, you just make sure that the dogs are always friendly and only friendly dogs breed. And if they're not friendly, don't allow them to breed.

I was like, that's crazy. He's got it completely organized that way, like genetically. He makes sure that these dogs are never, any dog that growls at somebody, any dog that barks for no reason, they don't breed. Those are the ones they put in the other barn where they secretly breed them for fighters. Well, they just fix them. No, they're different dogs. It's a large dog.

One of my friends, his mom bred bullmastiffs. Oh, yeah? So I was always freaked out every time I went over. They would be in the yard playing with bowling balls. And I'd be like, I'm not getting out of the car. Yeah, there are some enormous dogs. They, they were originally made like they make them, I think for some sort of guard dog, right? That was the idea behind them to make them as big as possible. Like those English Mastiffs, like 200 pound dogs. They're enormous. Yeah. Yeah. I don't

get those. I like labs. I think labs are my favorite. They're like the most predictable, you know? They're predictable. I just like a good think labs are my favorite. They're like the most predictable. They're predictable. I just like a good mutt. Yeah. You know, like a good friendly mutt. Good mutts are good, man. Is there any downside to living in Nashville? Like what is it?

Is it all good living down there or is it? You know, there's been such an influx of people that it's a bit congested now. It's sort of like Austin in that regard, right? I guess so. It's the hot spot. I've heard that. If you're young and you have aspirations and you want to live in a cool place. It seems to take longer and longer each year to get across town.

Yeah. You know? You guys keep talking about it, telling people how awesome it is. You hear me talking about it? Me. I just did. I work there all the time. I used to do Zany's.

You know where that comedy club is down there? Yeah, sure. I've been there. I'm there next month. I'm doing the Ryman. Yeah. I love Nashville. The Arcs just played the Ryman.

Oh, yeah? Awesome. We had John Prine come out and sing with us. Now, are you doing the Arcs in conjunction with the Black Keys? Like, how do you? No, just sort of. You know, Pat and I sort of just finished a like um the turn blue tour and which ended like four years straight of touring so we're just kind of taking a little break and i'm doing this arc the arcs thing now when you guys do

things like this do you do things legally or do you just shake hands and say we're in a band i do things legally yeah yeah i I do with these guys. I love them. They're my friends, but they're pros. Yeah, you kind of have to, huh? They all have their own lawyers. That's got to be so weird. Because they have been ripped off.

They've been ripped off in the past. That happens to really good musicians. What an amazing relationship you could have, though, if you had a bunch of heavy-duty musicians that went in on a handshake. Well, I mean, we don't talk about money really ahead of time. you could have though if you had a bunch of heavy duty musicians that went in on a handshake and worked it out. We don't talk about money really ahead of time. You know,

they'll buy plane tickets and fly into Nashville and spend a week recording. We'll never once talk about contrast or anything like that. So it's all done in advance by other people. It's done afterwards.

It's, you know, hey, we finished a record. We'll work it out now. Right. That's how it should be done, right? Until you get screwed. And then you're like, shit, I should have done this

ahead of time. I don't know. I think that's how it should be done but at least there's a level of trust that you guys do the recording in advance and that's a that's a high level of trust and then figure it out afterwards absolutely it's a very high level of trust cuz what if you guys catch lightning in a bottle one of you bitches gets greedy yeah someone gets those Scrooge McDuck ching- ching, those dollar bills in his eyes, and next thing you know, have you guys ever had your songs ripped off before?

Oh yeah, absolutely. What does that feel like? Um, strange, you know, I mean, for,

for Pat and I, it was like, we spent so many years just trying to get noticed, like have people copying us. It was just so bizarre. We had this one case where, I mean, it's happened multiple times to us, but we had this one case where some casino did an advertisement

and the owner of the casino posted something on Twitter or something like, hey, check it out. We just ripped off this Black Keys song for our new ad. You guys like it? And we just used that in the case and won. It was insane. Did they just not know? I don't think he knew how the internet worked.

I don't know. I thought maybe he just thought he was posting to his buddies. That's hilarious. Was it like Native American casino where they thought they had different laws? I don't know i thought maybe he was he maybe he just thought he was posting to his buddies that's hilarious was it like a native american casino where they thought they had different laws i don't know i don't know man do they have different laws when it comes to that kind of stuff uh i don't know i don't either i mean that was like the whole thing it's like that native american casinos they were allowed to have casinos in places that you can never have casinos right because they had their own rules.

That's where a lot of the early MMA fights were done because it was illegal. It was illegal to have MMA competitions. So it was illegal to have MMA competitions, but it was legal to have them at the Native American places. So they must have different ones. Yeah. In some ways. Yeah. Yeah.

That's how they have casinos. Yeah. So what are you guys doing now? You're just touring across the country with this new music? Yeah, we're just on tour playing some shows. And you're here for Coachella? Yeah. What is that experience like?

You know, it's like most kind of festivals. It can be fun if you're into that type of thing, I guess. I don't know. Well, it seems like it's got to be good for the young up-and-coming guys and gals to be included in these lineups and people to be able to experience maybe some bands. I know for Honey Honey it was a big deal to be able to experience some bands that maybe you weren't aware of before and say, oh, let me follow them now. For me, it's kind of weird watching music in the sun.

It just feels weird to me. And you don't get sound check, so you kind of go up there blind. Oh, okay. And then you have a very short set. Normally, most bands play, you know a band that's playing the Moore Theater or something that's playing an hour and a half at least.

When you play at a festival, you have 45 minutes. That's it. So it's like, you know, it's a lot of effort to not be at your best. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's sort of, that can be a little difficult. But when you play a great festival and you get a great crowd, it can change your mind, I guess.

We just played last week, and it was awesome. We had a really nice crowd. It was great. What is it like being there? I mean how many people go to that goddamn thing? It's got to be enormous now. Yeah, I mean it's huge. I mean, yeah, I'm It's become this whole big thing out there too. They do two weekends now Yeah, not one and then the weekend after that they do a Essentially the same thing, but with country music. What's it called? Stagecoach Festival.

So it's like three weeks. The whole town is, for three weeks at least, is just completely inundated with people. How strange. And how do they choose that spot? I don't know. They do it on the polo grounds there. Do they use those polo grounds when it's not in season? I'm not sure.

Yeah, I don't even know. I don't know. They just decided to put it on down there. But it's become this gigantic thing that everybody has to go to. A lot of guys who do those festivals will be the same ones who do festivals all over the place. You know, they'll, you know, like those Lollapalooza guys do different festivals. They've started different ones. And the benefit of doing those things is really essentially just for exposure, right?

I mean, there's money in it, but it's not like you guys do it on your own. It's good money. It is good money? It's better money than playing shows. You get more money. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.

It's good money. So it's nice to route a tour around festivals. No shit. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. That's interesting. Huh. Because comedians always think of it as like South by Southwest.

Because when you think about festivals. That's not a festival. What is that? That's more an industry thing. And everybody's kind of playing for free. Yeah, what the fuck is that? At little bars. That seems really weird.

When you're starting, it's a place to be seen Yeah, it's more for up-and-comers I think or when you have a brand new record coming out you can go down there and you know that all the media is Going to be there is Coachella the big festival I think so. Yeah, Coachella is one of the biggest Lollapalooza is the other yeah,, there are a few that are mainstays now. Coachella's definitely one of them. Do you find that in the age of the internet

that you are getting better crowds in different places, that you're getting people that understand what you're doing and are big fans, and they're all over the place now instead of, like, in urban pockets? I don't know. We don't go outside of urban pockets, really, to be honest. Really?

I mean, we stay in major cities. We don't often hit the small towns. No. Because we can hit major markets in Australia, Western Europe, North America. We can do it in South America. And then, like, by the time we finish that, you can kind of do those again. You know I mean right it's like uh you really have to want to go there and make a lot

less money you know I mean I get it makes sense yeah well I would just think that maybe that would especially for fucking around and creating new stuff, sometimes getting a new look, you know, and being in a new place and performing for a new kind of, it gives you a new feel for what you're doing. Yeah. I mean, I think if you're that kind of band that does a lot of improvising and, you know, fly by the seat of your pants. But for me, I'd rather be creating in the studio. Do you enjoy travel? Do you enjoy like international gigs? Less and less. Yeah yeah less and less the more the more uh productive i am at home the less i want to leave

you know and i love being around my kids it's it's been a lot of fun so it's definitely become less and less a thing i want to do i I got to tell you, dude, your dedication and the way you describe wanting to do music, it's very infectious. I love hearing shit like this because it really does make me want to go do something. You know? I think that effect is one of the reasons why people really enjoy

conversations with people like you. Because when we're reminded... I've never done this. Really? I've never really done an interview like this. No shit? Never. You're so comfortable, though. How are you so comfortable?

I don't know. I guess you're just comfortable. I just feel comfortable around you, Joe. I feel safe. Thanks, man. You're definitely safe. I feel like you're going to keep me safe if my stalker with the map

comes through the bar, just through that door. Everything's fine. You're going to be fine. But it's like when a person hears someone like you that is just in love with what they do and produces amazing stuff and just has a passion about it, it makes you – there's like a bubbly thing. It starts boiling inside you. You want to get going. You want to get moving, man.

That is the fuel of inspiration. That's so important for people. the fuel of inspiration. It's so important for people. I mean, I think for all of us, I think everybody who was into certain artists growing up knows that music, especially I think, is probably one of the most inspirational things as far as like the way it hits you, the way emotionally, the way it hits you. Like as far as art forms, you can listen to a three minute song and it can hit you in a way that three minutes in a movie has no hope of. Like from start to go, the three first minutes of a movie never hit you like some songs do.

They just tell a story in this intense, moving way with music and sound and the soul behind the way a person sings the words. And to hear from a guy like you that that process is so intoxicating and then you love it so much and that you still after all these years do it and love it and can't wait to get back in there and you want to be productive and that you work all the time and that you work at it you don't even consider that's like that's what everybody wants to hear man because that when you hear a guy like you talk about that i guarantee you this this podcast will be heard by over a million people and out of those million people thousands

of them are going to start new projects and get inspired to do things just by hearing you do this they're gonna fuck yeah man they're gonna want some of that man so people what they hear that and they go that sounds like bliss that sounds like career bliss someone who loves what they do and well yeah the business side is hard there's a lot of bullshit you know what I mean and most people don't make it you know we started over ten years ago and we used to tour with a bunch of bands that just don't even exist anymore yeah I mean we've we know that we're lucky you know what I mean but at the same time I've always felt something more from music you know it's always meant more to me than it did to all my friends just because I don't know why you know

it's like part of my family but even still you know my dad had a great record collection but I am pretty quickly like surpassed his knowledge and just delve deeper you know what I mean mm-hmm but I always felt really in tune with music like I I can remember being like 14 and hearing Sam Cooke and the Solstice and like it making me cry you know what I mean it was able to reach someplace inside me that that nothing else ever was able to you know I don't know that everybody gets that thing right but i definitely have that and it's like it's really controlled the way that i've made all the decisions in my life well i've got to think as a young man in such a music rich environment that you described your your childhood growing up like that i mean that had to have sparked and fueled some areas of your creativity that just led you to embrace it the way you have.

I mean, it seems like a really fortunate situation that you grew up in. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that story of you guys around your grandmother's grave singing that song, that's an amazing story, man. Yeah. I kind of wish I had that in my family, you know? Yeah. I mean, and I know i had that in my family you know yeah i mean and i and i know it i know it you know and not only were my uncles great musicians but they had great taste like my uncle jim taught me how to sing he's still got one of the best voices i've ever heard in my

life you know what i mean and uh you know i was a i was into music, but I was a real snob about it. I liked certain things, and I really didn't like other things, you know what I mean? And I had my Uncle Tim. He just had amazing blues albums, and he hit me to the cool shit, you know what I mean, early on.

And I knew the difference between, like, that kind of corny bar blues shit and, like, the deep stuff, you know? And so I really had a head start. I can't say that it was just all, like and like that deep stuff, you know, and so I really had a head start I can't I can't say that it was just all like I just got it, you know, I like I had great teachers and I was around some some cool stuff growing up Yeah, that's what it seems like, you know And I think that have it being around a bunch of people that are not just not just have great taste

But also express themselves Like freely and openly like that. They can sing at a funeral. You know, that's not a lot of families where they're so musical that they'll sit around and sing your grandmother's favorite song when she died. Well, yeah. I mean, it became, it ceased to be music for me. It was just who I was.

It was my life as a human is music. It's just just it's like eating music showering i mean it's like a part of the thing i do you know what i mean and without thinking about it and no matter what you did even if you didn't pursue it as a career you would still be involved in music but you can't even think about that can you yeah i don't i wouldn't know man i mean really i knew that i felt totally out of place like working in a kitchen and like working anywhere else is that a boxing glove around your yeah neck yeah what's that from that's you know they used to give these out to golden glove

winners local regional golden glove did you win a golden no, no. I found it in a junk shop. I liked it. It does look cool. I like how you're rocking it underneath the collar. Old school style. Catholic school. Like an Italian horn. That's how they would wear it. Do you remember Italian horns?

No. People used to wear those stupid little gold horns. Like a horn. Like a bull's horn that was like hanging. Do you know what I'm talking about? Not at all. It's this thing they would call them Italian horns. They were a big East Coast guido thing. Where'd you grow up?

That's what they looked like. I was born in New Jersey and I grew up in Boston. That kind of looks like sperm. Stupid charm. It does look like sperm. That's probably what it really is. It's like gold sperm. Hey, you fuck with the bull, you get the horns.

I don't know why it was a horn. I have no idea what it meant. But when I was a kid- It looks like you have sperm on your chest. Like a golden sperm. Like Liberace came in your chest. I don't know why I brought that up. I don't even know where that came from.

I was just curious about- I just wanted to know if you boxed. Yeah. Yeah, I box. Do you? Mm-hmm. What do you do? Do you do it for, like...

Just for fun. For fun? For working out, yeah. Do you spar? Do you hit pads? A little bit, yeah. When my cousin's in town, he taught me how to box. He's been boxing since he was, like, 14.

He got me into it three or four years ago. I have some friends that still spar, and I'm like, dude, be careful. Yeah, yeah, even though you have those things, the big helmets on it, shit hurts. Those helmets don't really help you. No. The problem is the brain smushing around inside the head,

and those helmets... Yeah, but nobody's hitting me like that in sparring, man. No. But just a little jolt, even jolts like that, real bad for the brain, swashing around inside the head. Uh-huh, yeah, absolutely. I was talking to a doctor. He said that jet skiing can give you brain damage.

Jet skiing? Jet skiing. Just being on a jet ski. He said the bounce of a jet ski, no bullshit, gives people concussions. Wow. Yeah, because what a concussion is, is you're concussed. Like the impact doesn't have to hit you in the head. A lot of concussions happen when people get a hit in the chest.

And then all of a sudden they'll be depressed and their mood swings me. Their cortisol levels are all fucked up. Wow. And they'll find out that they're concussed. It's from the sort of like whiplash from the movement of the brain. From the impact. Yeah. I always heard that.

Yeah. That's what I know. I mean, I know it's true in boxing with the big gloves. I know they cause more brain damage than the small gloves. I know MMA is Technically safer than boxing is in the long term. Yeah, believe it or not. I'd actually be safer if they wore no gloves. Yeah Absolutely, no gloves no wrist tape you your wrist would bend easier. It'd be harder to hit people hard You know, so your hands would break so you'd have to pick your shots better. Absolutely Safety safe first safety first even in extreme sports so your hands would break so you'd have to pick your shots better. Absolutely. Safety.

Safety first. Safety first. Even in extreme sports. That's the thing, right? Like how safe can you make it while still have it be so exciting? I don't know. Right. Do you watch boxing now, though?

You follow it? Oh, yeah. You a big boxing fan? Oh, yeah. Yeah, Chocolatito's in Santa Monica right now training. Have you watched him? I mean, I'm a big fan of his. I've never seen him live,

but I want to go there and watch him train. Yeah, man. I watched Manny Pacquiao train once. It was a real pleasure. It was... I went and trained at Wild Card and they let me go down

and train in the room, the Manny room. Oh, yeah? And you know, the double-edged bag was like so fucking tight. Yeah. I could barely hit the thing.

I felt so stupid because I was like, all right, I'm at a place where I feel comfortable. I can go to wildcard and maybe work out and not feel like a total shithead. And I was like, I gotta get out of here. I was like, uh, give me a couple of wildcard t-shirts and then you'll never see me again. Watching Manny hit the pads. Manny was hitting the pads. It wasn't with, um with Him was it with Freddie Roach. It might have been with Freddie. Yeah, it was with Freddie It was a Freddie and another guy And he goes through all this warm-up routines and goes for this stuff

And then he starts hitting the pads kind of slow and loosens up and then eventually he starts firing off these combination And he's just firing off these ungodly quick combinations you just realize like yeah there's a difference there's a difference in certain people yeah there's a big difference you see his calves too yeah yeah what the hell yeah what's going on over there well that's where his power comes from his power is all from his legs the pushing off of the legs and delivering these lightning fast combinations yeah did you see his last fight was an absolute bust? They lost money. Yeah, nobody wants to see him fight if it's not Floyd Mayweather.

And people are really disappointed, too. Well, that's not totally true. I mean, he just fought Tim Bradley. It was like a third fight. Yeah. I don't think anybody really cared. Tim Bradley's a fun guy. Tim Bradley's awesome.

Yeah. It's his third fight. But it was interesting. There are a bunch of great welterweights out there. I agree. Terrence Crawford. The best. Yeah, he's awesome third fight. But it was interesting. There are a bunch of great welterweights out there. I agree. Terrence Crawford. The best. Yeah, he's awesome.

I want to see that fight. He's just inked a deal to fight Victor Postal. Oh, really? That's going to be a great fight. Oh, that's a great fight, too. I think Terrence is going to win it, but that's a really good fight, and I'd love to see that Terrence Crawford isn't scared to fight anybody, even the best.

Terrence is something special, and also that he fights from the orthodox stance, but just as good, if not better, from the southpaw. And he'll switch up on guys. I know. He'll be outboxing you. Usually I hate when I see guys do that. I'm like, oh, this fucking guy. But he's awesome. It's almost like he's feeling you out as an orthodox.

And then when he knows he can fuck you up, he switches over and starts lighting you up. He's something special. He's awesome. And I love to watch his brain work too because he won't just go out for the knockout or whatever. He plays with you for a few rounds. Well, he's smart about it. Consistently. Yes. He always plays with the person for a few rounds and then starts destroying them.

Well, I think he values and appreciates the skill and art of boxing, the actual art of it. There's no way he could be as good as he is without it. If you get to that level, you have to. You have to reach that point where you understand that there's a total art to it. Yeah, so what he's doing is he's setting traps and slowly dragging guys into his game and then fucking them up. And for a guy who really appreciates the skill and the subtleties of what he's doing, it's amazing. Absolutely. I love watching that guy set traps.

Chocolatito is awesome, too, because he's just watching his side-to-side movement. Oh, yeah. Watching. It's just like second nature for him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. More so than anybody. Mm-hmm.

He's just a boxer. Yeah. You know? The fluidity of those combinations where you step off to the left and crank off these branches. It reminds me of Fenito Lopez in that way where it's just like perfect form and the movement is insane. This is a good time for boxing right now. Gennady Golovkin, another one. I want to see what happens with Canelo Alvarez and Amir Khan, which is coming up.

I worry about Khan. We're talking about muscles and Khan keeps saying, I feel stronger, and he looks huge. He looks ripped. I worry that he just will have no stamina in the fight. Yeah, I wonder. Is this the first time? What are they fighting at 160?

Or is it 154? I don't remember. So when Mayweather and him fought, they fought at 150. Was it a catchweight fight? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Mayweather wanted him a little small, right? Mayweather gets whatever he wants.

Shrink him down a little bit. Get that big bruiser down. But Gennady Golovkin, he's an interesting guy because a lot of people don't want to, like, his pay-per-view got like 150,000 buys, which is a huge bust. It's a disaster for them. But for boxing fans like you or me, he's he's the guy i can't wait to watch we still haven't seen him uh tested though i don't think i don't think so either but he's gonna fight i you know everybody wants to see him fight um wade i mean um canelo for sure but he's fighting who is he is, yeah, it's Wade. Wade is the guy's name.

The mandatory challenger. Oh, no, he's fighting Wade right now, but Andre Ward. Oh. Andre Ward's going to go up and fight Kovalev, though. You know that? Yeah, I've heard that. Andre Ward's now fighting 75. He had his first light heavyweight fight at 75.

Looked great. And now he's going to fight Kovalev. Kovalev's a beast. Oh, he's another terrifying guy. Yeah. This is a great time for boxing. Although Bernard Hopkins, you know, as old as he is and kind of as slow as he is, with respect, he popped Kovalev a few times. He did.

I mean, if it was the Bernard Hopkins of 10 years ago, it could have been a completely different fight. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, I think if, again, that's the other thing about boxing is, like, the thing that's so great about mma is they pit the best against the best and in boxing there's so much bullshit you know you gotta see these dumb fucking fights with guys fighting people that you know they can just beat so easily definitely too many different world titles like you have three different guys who call themselves the world champion and they're in the same weight class that's crazy you know there's a lot of that that doesn't make any sense like yeah deciding what a world champion is and who owns the right to say world champion that their guy is or this guy is and not have them fight against each other.

Rival promotions. They don't want to get together and ink deals. Don't want to lose their superstar. What if, you know, what if UFC had a company that was just as big as UFC? Because that's kind of essentially what happens in boxing. You know what I mean? You don't talk about it in UFC because there's no one else who really can compete. You know, if you want to do MMA, you do UFC, right?

You know, Bellator is just not quite as big. But like with boxing, there are just all these promoters, Top Rank and Arum, and that they never cross promote. You know what I mean? Right. It really does a disservice to the sport, I think. Well, it certainly can because they know that they have a guy who can make a lot of money. And if that guy loses to somebody, then they're fucked and they lose their big guy.

That's the other thing I kind of hate about boxing is that if you lose one fight, somehow you're tainted beyond belief. Do you know what I mean? I don't quite understand that. Yeah. Well, it's an old school way of thinking because they used to build a fighter up and get them 49 and 0 and then they would fight, you know? Right. And it would be a big thing. He's undefeated. He's going for the title. You know, if a guy had 10 losses and he was going for the title, everybody was like, why am I even watching this?

That's why it's so cool to see Khan fight Canelo and to see, you know, to see, who did we just say? Miguel Cotto. He's another one. Fighting Postal. The guy's fighting Postal. Oh, Gennady Golovkin? No, Postal. Terrence Crawford.

Terrence Crawford. You know what I mean? It's so great when you actually see a real fight. It's like, oh, shit, this is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's just too much talent right now in a few divisions. Like, there's some unavoidable, like, chaotic matchups.

And I think Canelo and Amir Khan, for as long as it lasts, should be very interesting. Canelo's just such a bruiser, man. He's a scary puncher. But he's slow. He's a little slow. And Amir's pretty fast. When you see him against Mayweather, when he fought Mayweather, he couldn't even catch him. Yeah, that's true.

But Mayweather's a motherfucker he's such a good boxer is is you could argue is this fast maybe well he won't be losing as much weight so maybe he'll be better and maybe he'll be better because he fought that fight you know i mean a fighter doesn't stay at the same level of skill year after year ideally if they keep training and keep learning and he's completely dedicated he's going to be getting better and better all the time confident as a champion i mean that one loss to mayweather i think you probably learned more about what can happen to him in a fight than all those fights where he beat guys down yeah i don't i can't imagine the pressure pressure that canelo's under i want to see canelo and granati golovkin that's the fight that i want to see yeah i want

to see what happens that's this two guys that don't like to take backward steps and both have ruthless power and great chins yeah i think granada is a better boxer he's so technical he's so technical i love watching him train to video him training just like just working the head movement in the clinch for like an hour you You know what I mean? Just like, and then he's like teaching some kid. Also, stop to teach somebody. It's like, he loves the sport. You can tell. Yeah, he certainly does.

But I think Canelo does too. I think Canelo is, like you said, he's a little slower and he's just such a bruiser that he's got that sort of style to him that he just loads up and bangs at guys. But I think he's getting better too. I think he's slicker now than he's ever been before. I think also a fight like Mayweather, just such a wake up call. You could fight a guy like Mayweather or hate him. He's arguably one of the greatest boxers ever. The guy retires. I don't think there's an argument. It's not an argument. There's no argument. Yeah.

He's one of the greatest. If not the greatest. I mean, he just doesn't get hurt. He has this uncanny ability to make every fight He fights the most boring fight you've ever seen your life incredible and You know it kind of sucks because it's hard to get your friends into boxing. Yes, like check it out This is supposed to be the best fight of this Millennium. Yeah, Pacquiao versus Mayweather It's everybody's like what the fuck can we watch something else? You know? Well, he just fights so safe and so smart and he's better. He's better at fighting that style than you are dealing with that style.

And so when guys fight him, they just can't get to him and they fall into this sort of defensive shell like eight or nine rounds in where they- He ends up making you look foolish. Yeah. And you start with swinging wildly and it's like you play right into his trap. Yeah. It's almost, it almost sucks that- sucks that I want to know who's gonna fight next. Do you think he's gonna fight again? Yeah, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, don't think it at one point in time. You don't think I retire maybe I haven't heard any real rumbling So have you he just started?

Flamboyantly saying he was retiring too much for me to believe it's a real retirement It just feels like more of his promotion. You know what I mean? And it's not like he stopped training. He hasn't? I don't think so. No. He's in the gym still.

Well, you're probably right then. Maybe he was waiting for the Manny Pacquiao fight. Like maybe waiting to see if it generated a lot of income and if Manny was back and people loved him. Because you got to kind of give Manny a chance to rebound. Like after the Juan Manuel Marquez fight, we get knocked out. You've got to give him a chance to take some time off, fight against Chris Algieri, look good, and then you can mark the fight.

Yeah. I don't know. That was just such a bust for me, that fight. It was just so goddamn boring. Yeah. And, you know know i was such a manny pacquiao fan and to see him to see him um come up with nothing and then have it have the shoulder thing afterwards after the fact god it sucked well the word was before the fight that

his shoulder was fucked up yeah people had heard about that it was bookies were talking about it so some people didn't know that his shoulder was fucked up yeah they should heard about that it was bookies were talking about it so some people didn't know that his shoulder was fucked up yeah they should have they should have postponed the fight yeah but the problem is didn't they like some association sue him or something like that well i mean he threw punches with it i mean there was a class action lawsuit so the question is was was it the injury bad enough where he had to step back i don't't know what he did. He asked for a shot. Cortisone shot? Before the fight. And they said no? Yeah. Oh. Hmm. Yeah. Should've just

done it. Can't ask a shit like that. Just do it. Get a bunch of your buddies to do it. I mean. I just love Manny Pacquiao. He's like mini Elvis flying around his own jumbo jet with like a jumbo jet full of his entourage. Yeah yeah he's got a he's got

a whole whole giant posse and none of them like gay people yeah that was such a bummer it was weird yeah but that's all that religious stuff though man it's just heavy catholic yeah but catholic or not you hate to see somebody who's so fucking blessed tear people down. And over nothing. I mean, I'd never pay for a Manny Pacquiao fight again. Because of that? Yeah. Really?

Yeah. Wow. Fuck that. Wow. That's interesting. 100%. When you get to that level and you have that much money, you should know fucking better. Yeah.

You know what I mean? That's disgusting what he said. And then he said it twice. Yeah, we tried to justify with the bible god's word well i mean he probably didn't know the reaction that he was gonna get you know i bet in his culture he said gays are less than dogs less than animals was that the exact word yeah um i think he might have been misquoted. I think he tried to explain what he said based on what it says in the Bible. After the fact.

Yeah, I don't remember, but whatever it was, it was not good. I don't know, man. It's just he's too rich and too blessed to be bringing people down, persecuting people down. It's just no good. That cost him a lot of fucking money, man. He lost his Nike sponsorship because of that. He'll never get my 99.95.

That's for sure. Yeah. You're not the only one, I'm sure. It is a bummer. I don't know that that many boxing fans actually care. You don't think so? I don't know. There's got to be some boxing fans like you

that are boxing fans but aren't apes. Maybe. For sure. Yeah. It can't be all those people watching. Yeah. No. I mean, my friend bought the last fight.

And I kind of gave him a little shit. Just because of the gay stuff? Yeah. I was like, how could you do that? You know it's going to be a shitty fight anyway. It's like, why would you? Well, poor guy. He's all ate up with Jesus.

Yeah. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I don't know. It's going to be a shitty fight anyway. It's like, why would you? Well, the poor guy, he's all ate up with Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not that familiar with his culture and exactly how, but I know for a fact, a lot of Catholics. Yeah. You know, the Philippines is just overwhelmed with Christianity and Catholicism.

So he probably thought he was actually trying to save people in some strange way, you know, in his brainwashed mind. Yeah. I wonder how much of the negative feedback actually gets to him though, you know? None. You don't think so? No. That's what I'm saying. He's like mini Elvis. He doesn't hear anything. He's got like shades on, 50 people on his own jumbo jet. Who's going to tell him that he's an asshole? I wonder how long that money can last if he keeps rolling so deep. In the Philippines? Yeah. Well, honestly, he probably saves money with his own check because then he'd have to buy 50 plane tickets.

Maybe, right? Maybe it's like cost effective for him to have his own jet. That's an interesting way to look at it. But he's so beloved in his country, they probably just give him a jet. You know, he's a hell of a pool player. To go represent the country. That guy's a hell of a pool player. Is he? the country. That guy's a hell of a pool player. Is he?

Yeah. And he's a lefty, too. Yeah, he plays really good. He plays, like, at a professional level. Does he? Yeah. Well, the Philippines, it's a giant place for pool. The GIs brought it over there in the 50s,

and some of the best pool players in the world come out of the Philippines. Matter of fact, they're like consensus, greatest player of all time, Efren Reyes, came out of the Philippines. Oh, wow. fact, they're like consensus, greatest player of all time, Efren Reyes, came out of the Philippines. A magician. Yeah. Yeah, they have some of the best players.

And really interesting to watch them because they play like they're playing a musical instrument, like a very gentle game for them. It's very different. It's not like stiff or hard. It's a very gentle flowing. Yeah, their stroke. They have a very particular type of stroke

that other players worldwide have emulated the filipino style of playing pool wow interesting i didn't know that yeah what what other countries are like embracing like american rock and blues music and doing a good job with it today i mean uk has always been a huge supporter france australia they've always you know australia i mean shit they live and live and die for rock and roll do they get good artists that are coming out of there today like do you what do you where do you see yeah australia there's there's great great music coming out of there i mean do you ever listen to tame impala no they're from uh they're from australia how do you spell it T-A-M-E and then Impala.

Tame Impala. Yeah. They make really cool records. They're pretty famous now. I would say they might even be a festival headliner at this point. Really? Yeah, they're a big band and they're from Australia. There's a whole scene there kind of around that.

In the absence of radio like what is the traditional method that bands get noticed now like is it just hustling and touring and i don't even know spread i don't know i i have no idea you just do your shit i have no fucking idea i just had an 85 year old gospel singer from mississippi in my studio last week and that's all i was thinking about you know what i mean it's like i have no idea what goes on in the music business. I really don't. What was the gospel singer's name? His name is Leo Bud Welch.

Wow. Oh yeah. So cool. What did you have him do? Play music, man. But what, like what? We did a record with him. I had some of my friends in and we, uh, we just sort of like would let him start a song

and try to, try to try to you know get him where we fit in wow yeah and we did a whole record in three days with him and then you know it's just like that's incredible yeah yeah he's incredible great he like plays guitar and sings and and he's very frail and kind of hunched over, but he keeps perfect time. Like we could record him by himself, and then you could just watch him with the BPM, and he's just right on it, man. It's wild. A lifetime of doing it, you know?

There's something about old gospel and old blues. There's a sound to like a lot of the old south that is this inescapable, soulful sound. There's some old blues, to this day, like some John Lee Hooker, like boom, boom, boom. You listen to it like, wow, this is just such a special kind of sound. And it's instantaneous, and you don't have to know anything about it to love it. Yeah. Which is so cool. And it took the world by storm.

I mean, John Lee Hooker was really influential in Africa. Really? His records went over there, and people like Ali Farkatoura, who's one of the greatest African guitar players, heard his records and inspired him. I mean, yeah, it's just that there's something about it that's like some of those guys, it's just undeniably awesome.

And you don't really know how to describe it. And there's like, the ingredients are so minimal. Yeah. Everybody else had a guitar. Why didn't they make it sound like that too? You know what I mean? Well, it seems like there was a bunch of different things going on.

It was the audience that had been exposed to a lot of other great music and they appreciated it. There was like the experience of the people that were performing it, the life experience that they had behind the words. They had lived like sorrowful times and expressed it legitimately and truly in the music. Right, but it was also just where they're from.

Yeah, it's who they are. It's not even like that maybe their lives were so bad. It's just like, again, it's just such a part of who they were. They would never be able to explain it. Right. You know what I mean? Right. They could never teach a course on blues at Harvard, you know?

You have to live it, right? And you'd have to experience that vibe from another musician to know that it's possible for someone to do it right I don't know I mean I there's only so much you can learn from people right you know at a certain point you have to understand that what makes them special is because it's them it comes out of them you can't learn that you can't really take it but what you can take is the feeling of they have their own identity. And you've got to find that in yourself. That's the thing that you want to ultimately get.

You know what I mean? You want to be influenced by all these people. But the main influence that I think you should learn from the greats are that you have to find it in yourself. You can't rely on it in anybody else. And I think to see it in someone else gives you that inspiration to try to find it in yourself So I used to search for it just constantly and be at the library getting out VHS you know videos and Just watching

Rewinding watching and then I would drive 19 hours from Akron to Mississippi just to like maybe find a musician who I heard lived in some town. You know what I mean? Just because I wanted to see it, you know? And, and when I find, when I found it, shit is life changing, man. I mean, I was like 17 and I went to Greenville, Mississippi and I just started asking around for this musician named, his name was T-Model Ford and he made some really cool records. T-Model Ford? Yeah, he was a total badass. He played a death metal guitar.

Really? A Peavey. Yeah, and it said, with the letters you put on a mailbox, it said, T-Model Ford, the tail dragger. And he had it spray painted on his trailer that he pulled around with his Lincoln.

Wow. You know, just going there, I would never want to just like become that person. Right. But whether they're from Mississippi or they're like a classical composer from Germany, there's a thing that these all these guys have in common. And it's like a sense of self. You know what I mean? Anybody I've ever met has a real just a confidence that, you know, even though they may not be the best at certain

things they can like bring out the best in themselves you know and that's like enough do you know what i mean i definitely know what you mean i know what you mean yeah i know exactly what you mean you described it very well that's a great way of putting it is it like the seeing it in other people recognizing it in other people and trying to find it in yourself and that so seeing it in other people means you know that it's real thing that inspires you yes yeah absolutely yes and you see somebody like t model or any of those guys you know they didn't have any extra thing they didn't have anything like any like, um,

advantage really, you know what I mean? It was a struggle just like it is for anybody, you know, but they found it in themselves, I guess. Yeah. Well,

that's all any artist you'd ever hope for. That's the number one aspiration. Find out whatever is the best part of you, right? How do you get your best stuff out there? I mean, I'm still trying yeah well you know I mean I think that I for me I just don't want to ever be too

critical to slight self-critical I want it to be I want to try to like have it on on the record like in a first couple takes so it feels for me I feel a bit more real a bit more genuine do you know what i mean i think that's really helpful to a record some of my favorite records whether they're hip-hop or whether they're rock and roll or whatever they're made usually generally made pretty quickly big grand masterpieces that were labored over i don't tend to listen to that much. I'll listen to it and it'll be, maybe I'll hear something sonically that, ooh, that's cool that they did that.

But then at the end of the day, I always go and put on that one record that that one guy did in a day. That's the one I always want to live with. That's my desert island shit. My desert island shit. Well, listen, man, thank you very much for doing this. I really appreciate you coming in here.

And I appreciate what you do, too. I really do. For me, I'm geeked out as a fan. I'm super psyched. And to get you to talk about your creative process like that is just giant for me. Appreciate it, man. So if people want to get your music, the arcs, you guys, what do you have out that's out right now? We have a record called Yours Dreamily

and that's available at all the local record shops that don't exist anymore iTunes all that stuff everywhere beautiful

alright thanks brother appreciate you being here man thank you that's it for the week fuckers see you next week thanks everybody bye see you next week thanks everybody bye