The Joe Rogan Experience - #796 - Josh Zepps

Episode Date: May 9, 2016

Josh Zepps is the host of #WeThePeople LIVE available on Spotify and at http://wtplive.com

Ah, Josh Zapps, we're live. Hello, mate. What's up, brother? How you doing? Ah, I'm good. I've been all over the place. You have been all over the place. I've been wandering. I'm not even on HuffPost Live anymore. I know, you're wandering. I'm a wanderer.

You're we the people now. I'm all we the people all the way. I like calling myself unemployed. I think it's just more, I think there's more, it takes more cojones to just say that you're unemployed than to be like, well, I've got a lot of projects going on. Like, I've got a lot of fingers and a lot of pies, and I'm like, I'm freelance now.

But aren't you self-employed? Yeah. So that's not unemployed. No, but I like fucking with people. Oh, you make them feel sad for you. Yeah, and make them feel... Because people want you to immediately say that you're doing okay, and unemployed makes you sound like a bum.

So I like starting from the lowest possible position. You should tell people that you're going to get a trailer, and you're going to travel across the country, get one of those things you drag behind your car, and I'm just going to live out of it. Yeah. And the national parks. The more weeks I don't have a full-time job, the stronger my accent's going to get until I'm just down in a little ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Here's me and my trailer. I haven't had a job in 15 years. You can't go from Australian accent to American Southern. I just did southern. I just did it. I just did it. We don't allow that.

Many people say that things are impossible, Joe Rogan, but I'm here to prove them wrong. Isn't it interesting how, like, if you move to a place, you're not allowed to adopt the accent? Like, if an American moves to England, like, remember when Madonna, she was only there for, like, six months? Yeah. She started talking like this, and everybody's like, bitch, get the fuck out of here. Like, we know that people talk like that. And we know it's a style of, it's an here. We know that people talk like that. And we know it's a style of, it's an affectation. You decide to talk like that.

You don't have to talk like that. Obviously, when you watch British actors play Americans and do such a brilliant job of talking in an American accent, like the Walking Dead people, when people find out that Rick is a fucking, he's from England. They're all from England. The girl, Maggie, she's from England.

Everybody's from fucking England. Yeah. And I mean, a lot of people don't know that Aussies are Aussies as well, if they're doing all of the American accents. Yeah. I mean, how often does Russell Crowe not have an American accent in a movie? True. And what's his face?

Fucking Batman. Christian Bale? He's Australian too. No, he's English. Ah, same shit. Don't get me started on the differences between New Zealanders and Australians as well. There's this whole thing about who... Fuck you. It's the same spot, right? Don't get me started on the differences between New Zealanders and Australians as well. There's this whole thing about who... Fuck you.

It's the same spot, right? Kinda. Kinda. It's about as different as Canada and America. Not really. Barely. Barely different. Close enough.

There's a lot of dispute between the two countries about which one has to cop Mel Gibson. Because Mel was, I think, born in... Was he born in New Zealand or something? There's some bullshit about whether he's American, Australian, or New Zealand. You can have him. As long as he's not Australian. Everybody loved him for a while. He was so good.

He was awesome. Just couldn't keep it together. No. Well, being a wildly anti-Semitic, racist, religious nutjob doesn't help. Do you think he's a crazy person, though? I don't know whether that means anything when you're that famous. Of course it does. It always means something.

I mean, being that famous doesn't discount certain biological realities of brain function. I think people have bad livers. Their livers go bad. People get lung cancer. People, without a doubt, develop brain diseases. Right. Whether or not it's a psychological disease, meaning it's a disease of thought processes and taking you down bad roads, those bad thought processes become ingrained and you continue them over and over again out of habit. Or whether or not – he's obviously an alcoholic, right?

So that's a real issue. He's had massive problems with alcohol. When you take lung cancer, for example, obviously the things that you do to your body are going to have a large impact on whether or not you're likely to get lung cancer. Sure. And similarly, I think that living in the rarefied atmosphere of being incredibly outrageously famous probably puts grooves in your mental pathways that predispose you to being odd. Good point. Yeah, definitely. And as you get older, when things start to fall apart, you know, physically and psychologically and maritally.

And, you know, when he was with that crazy lady. I mean, that's what that is, is like the ultimate three quarter. It's not midlife. It's three quarters life, like dilemma. Yeah. And how many people do you surround yourself with when you're at that level of superstardom who are willing to call bullshit on your bullshit? Right.

Like I think a healthy famous person, we we all know them are people who are able to keep their heads screwed on because they still surround themselves with a posse who are like ah get out of here what are you doing with this you you've got a latin mass still doing the pre-reformation catholic like liturgies up on a hill in the hollywood hills and you're talking about how jews caused all the wars in the world get it what are you doing this is why people like buddy cop movies because in a buddy cop movie dann Danny Glover would straighten him back out. Yeah. He'd be like, come on, man.

Get it together. And then he would pull it together and he'd stop being crazy. But when he's by himself on a fucking mountain in Malibu screaming at the help and yelling at his Russian girlfriend. What's the name of his character in Lethal Weapon? Do we know what Mel Gibson's at? Martin Riggs. Yeah. Yeah. Martin Riggs.

So Mel Gibson needs a Danny Glover the way that Martin Riggs did. Well, he needs Danny Glover, the actual Danny Glover. Because if you pay attention to Danny Glover's Twitter feed and his social media feed, it's all about helping people out and charities and spirituality and consideration for the earth. And Danny Glover's got a really interesting life. Oh, cool. I'll follow him. I didn't know that. He's a very open-minded, intelligent guy from the few things that I've paid attention to. I think Danny Glover's, like, paying attention to the world.

I love it. So, really, they should be together for real. I love it when people who you admire, whose craft you admire, grow into being something more than that and like sort of spiritually enlightened. It was like when Gary Shandling died. You know, he had become someone who was super interested in really interesting things. I mean, he was. How do you?

I didn't know. I didn't know much about him. I didn't either until I was following him on Twitter. And the day that he died, I went to his Twitter page to see what his last tweets were and saw that he was following me for some strange reason, which made me feel like all the more kind of close to him and started going back through all of his old tweets. And he was just interested in spirituality, meditation, all the kinds of shit that you and I are interested in. I didn't know him. I met him very briefly, like, hi, nice to meet you at the Comedy and Magic Club. Never really got a chance to talk to him.

But, God, what a funny guy. That Larry Sanders show was amazing. I mean, two of the most groundbreaking sitcoms. Like, all of those sitcoms that now, like Modern Family and everything, all have the same, like, this is a pseudo-documentary. And these people are, for some reason, talking to the camera. It doesn't really make any sense anymore. Like, why is this documentary being made about these Modern Family people? How long is this how long is this documentary why they always like it's been on for nine years or something where's the documentary crew why are they talking to the camera it's the whole conceit has broken down but all of those shows owe their

genesis to gary shandling to the fact that he did the larry sanders show larry sanders show and it's gary shandling show yeah exactly yeah he had some great stuff, really great stuff. So what's the shit about Facebook? I just walked in here and you told me that there are these pieces about how Facebook workers are admitting that they routinely suppressed conservative news from the Facebook news feed. Yeah, I actually got it from Steven Crowder. He sent it to me and then I looked it up and then I saw it was on Gizmodo and I was like, wow, this is crazy like this uh enforcement of uh liberal liberal ideas former facebook workers says we routinely suppress conservative news so uh they would keep conservative news from trending and they would um uh they would uh inject stories that weren't

trending they would inject them into the trending stories if they match their ideologies i mean this is so dangerous and upsetting for even if you are a complete like liberal fascist and all and you don't believe in freedom of speech or freedom of ideas but jamie had a really interesting point what's that he was saying but when you look at the believers like the justin bieber fans they overwhelm the trending to the point where twitter became the justin bieber show and then twitter had to go okay all right settle the fuck down all these little 16 year old girls are finger banging themselves and slamming their their fucking iphones and trying to get this guy you know

and try to pay attention to this guy constantly 24 hours a day. Those Beliebers are out of their fucking mind. But that doesn't mean, but what, did Twitter do something about that and actually deprioritize Justin Bieber tweets? Is that the point? A long time ago, like two or three years into Twitter starting, there's ten trending topics, I believe. I remember it was like seven out of the ten were all Justin Bieber this, I love Justin Bieber, whatever it was at the time. Seven out of the ten. Justin Bieber this, I love Justin Bieber whatever it was at the time. Seven out of the ten.

I forgot to bring that up with Dan Arbach from the Arcs and the Black Keys when he was here, because he got into it with Beliebers. Oh, really? Like, they got mad at him. Oh, man, don't fuck them up. All the people you could, just in sheer numbers. It's like taking on a fight with an army of fire ants. You're just not going to win.

You know what's interesting? They get mad at you if you are older than them but if you use twitter like it's one of the things that they love to say like you fucking old man why are you even on twitter like as if my generation invented it they're what they're trying to do is they're trying to they're they're acknowledging this is a stupid behavior and they would assume that you're old enough that you realize it's a stupid behavior, and you should be better than them. I'm allowed to be an immature little bitch. I'm 14. What's your excuse, Joe?

There's something to that. There's something to that. That is a part of what they're saying. Yeah. They're acknowledging their ridiculousness. The difference between deprioritizing Belieber tweet hashtags and using your status as the most important social media information company in the world. Unless you're a Belieber. And then I don't see your point, bro.

I went on Twitter looking for what's important, what people are actually talking about. They're talking about Justin fucking Bieber. Did you know he got a face tattoo? No. Jamie told me. Jamie, why do you even know these things? Jamie will tell you the status of Beyonce and Jay-Z's wedding 24 hours a day at any given time.

You can text, how's Bae and Jay doing right now? They okay? And Jamie will let you know. What's the latest? He went on black Twitter. Jamie's grinning like the Cheshire Cat. He's just like, yep, that's me. That's all me.

That's what he does. He wears Yeezys. He buys Yeezys. He buys Yeezys. Where is Justin Bieber's face tattooed, Jamie? It is right below his eye. Let's take a look. Is it like a tear or something? What is it?

It's sort of in that spot up there. It's very predictable. It's about Jesus. It's a Jesus tattoo. Please tell me you're shitting me. It's a Jesus tattoo. It's very small. Let's go with it.

It looks like a mole. It's a cross, bro. It does look's very small. Let's go with it. It looks like a mole. It's a cross, bro. It does look like a mole. Zoom in on that bitch. It looks like a mole. As far as I can go, it won't be a cross. What? That's as big as it gets?

Someone must have a better version. It's a cross, though, right? I think this guy has one, too, next to him. Oh, they're gay. They're gay together. They're banging each other. Those two guys are banging each other. If you can't tell the difference between your tattoo and just a facial blemish, you've got the wrong tattoo, dude.

No, he's got the right tattoo, because he's starting off like that. See, what it is, is he wants to be like one of those black guys, like Birdman, who has tattoos all over his face. Yeah. He doesn't have that kind of balls. No. So he's gonna go with a little tiny thing that he could eventually get lasered off. Whatever, whatever. Not that big a deal, you know? Like, who's got a lot of

like, stitches? Is that his name? That white rapper's got ak-47 tattooed on the side of his face have you ever seen him no oh he's the best as far as the worst as far as like if i best you mean the worst person in the world worst examples of art oh he's got more tattoos oh wow that's beautiful he's got him on his neck and his forehead now and what is but the coolest thing about it is he's got like like, basically the Joker, like, scars coming out of the sides of his mouth that look like they've got stitches, hence his name, Stitches. Yeah. Well, he even has it on his lips, like, above his lips and to the sides and left and right.

What is the latest thing that he's got? He's got a star on his face, too. The AK-47. Well, he's got a star where Justin Bieber has his little mole. That's the hot spot. I've got to get me one of those. That's like the dumb dude's version of a lower back tattoo. It's like a tramp stamp

for retards. That's what it is. But it's just the visibility of it everywhere that would freak me out. I've got a couple of tattoos, but they're not in places where I'm always going to be seen with them. Not that it matters for Justin Bieber. It's not like he's going to be going to a job interview and having to impress them. That's true. But.

Yeah, that's Gucci Mane. Gucci Mane had an ice cream cone tattooed on his face with lightning bolts, and it says BRR. B-R-R-R. You know why that is. And he also had some shit written under his eyelids. What does that say? What does it say on his eyelids? Looks like old egg.

Yeah, it looks like all that or initials, but yeah, I'm going with old egg. It's ingenious that he's got burr written on the ice cream, because you know ice cream is cold? And when people are cold, they say burr. So see what he's done there? That's a good point. He's combined the word burr with the visual iconography of an ice cream, thereby linking these two formally disparate concepts in one beautiful tattoo. How about this dude who copied him? Look at the guy next to him.

He copied Gucci Mane. That's even stupider. Yeah. He went with Burr too. He's like, man, maybe I'll get some of Gucci's runoff. Bitches will see me at the diner and be like, yo, Gucci.

What's up? You wanna fuck? Oh, dear. Anyway, the implications of Justin Bieber being deprioritized on Twitter, I still contend. Can't believe you're going back to this. Not as great as the implications of Facebook hiding conservative news stories from its users on its news feed.

Well, it's very unfortunate that someone did this, but it's very important that the workers told us that they did this. Yes. Because it's supposed to be an impartial, I guess, aggregator. I mean, what would you call Facebook? It's a portal? A portal for stories that are trending? They've never claimed that what you see is just the most recent thing that is coming up, right? I mean, all of it is algorithms.

So the things that you tend to click on and the things that of it is algorithms. So the things that you tend to click on and the things that you tend to look at and the things that you tend to like and the stories that you tend to click through to all go into their gigantic algorithm crunching machine, which I just imagine as being like a big Willy Wonka machine spewing with steam coming, a pink steam coming out the top. Boop, boop.

Exactly. A little toy train circling it. You put in all of the data and then out the other end, the Oompa Loompas compile your Facebook feed. And so they're making judgments all the time about what they're going to prioritize. But what they shouldn't be doing is including any kind of their own political preferences. And we don't yet know if it's actually true, or it just looks like this is one person who's saying this. That's a good point. It just looks like this is one person who's saying this. But my problem with it is even if you condone these kinds of policies and you're a liberal, you don't know what impact it's going to have and whether or not by putting this stuff out, people are going to get more liberal. Maybe they'll get more frustrated with liberal ideas and they'll become more conservative.

It's more likely to be that. It fuels the idea that being a liberal is being a person is detached from reality and that's one of the the major points of criticism when when the conservative people go after the liberals one of the major things that they try to harp on Is that liberals are out of touch with reality? Yeah, when you have something like this and you're reinforcing the idea that they're shielding certain aspects of reality Like that some people have these conservative opinions. And if some people have a conservative opinion and you disagree with that conservative opinion,

that's where the open exchange and the marketplace of ideas comes into place. Now, if you don't allow that exchange to take place because you deny that people think that way because you hide the stories, you're going to alienate and you're going to create these confirmation bias forums. You're going to create these places where people like salon.com, where people just, they agree with each other to the point, and then they tell you why. You know, why is Josh Zeps the worst?

We'll tell you why. And then they tell you, they ask a question. And there's always like eight points, like eight reasons why Josh Zeps is the worst. Here's why he's terrible. There are only eight? I can give you a dozen. It's not news anymore. They're so hysterically ridiculous.

They're so off the deep end. I mean, it used to be the case that we thought of progressives and liberals as being more pro-free speech. At least I did. I thought of them as being on the side of more inclusiveness and more tolerance. And it's becoming increasingly not the case at all that there's more politically correct bullshit and more censorship and more imposing, less tolerance of other people's ideas on the left, even though they're on the right. I 100% believe that, but I believe it's the pendulum effect. I think it's the suppression of free speech by the conservatives in the Bush administration that fuck people up so sideways, they bounce back the other way ultra hard.

I think people got so angry at what was going on with John Ashcroft covering statues up with drapes and all the craziness that was going on with John Ashcroft covering statues up with drapes and all the craziness that was going on in that administration and all the suppression of gay rights. Does everyone know about that? The fact that John Ashcroft actually had the penis on a statue, on an old Roman or Grecian statue, which was like in one of the great temples down in Washington, D.C., covered up because he was so puritanical that he didn't want a naked penis from an ancient statue he was so disturbing that that guy got into office you know one of the one of the guys that

I correspond with online he had something to do with some record store and he sent me an album of gospel songs that John Ashcroft had made with some other dude. He was fucking, and probably still is, batshit crazy. Well, I mean, they kind of, what do you call it, like, when you stack, they basically stacked the Bush administration with a lot of crazy people like that. Especially the first administration of the Bush administration, the 2000-2004. Man, you look at some of those

people. They're basically theocrats. I mean, they're not that different from a Christian version of what the Iranian leaders are. Well, not only that, they're so caricaturish that they seem like characters in a movie, like a bad action movie. I mean, you think about what you've got. You've got Donald Rumsfeld

and Dick Cheney, two people arguably forged in the center of the earth. I mean, they're fucking straight up evil. Dick Cheney is straight up evil. He got to a point where he didn't have a fucking heart. You know? I mean, the guy had an artificial heart put in, which was pumping his blood through his body with no pulse. He does. Doesn't he still have no pulse? No, he had a transplant. Oh, does he have a live heart now? He found some dude and cut his fucking heart out. You bet your ass they did.

With one of those stone knives. We happen to have a match. Yeah, bullshit, you happen to have a match. Went out there and killed somebody. Yeah, some Secret Service agent disappeared. One Secret Service agent on a really healthy diet. Fucking cut that guy open like a fish. You can just imagine, they've probably got like a fish you can just imagine they've

probably got like a tinder for for dick cheney where he's just swiping left and swiping right on the people who they're gonna kill for his heart you got a 23 year old he he and ashcroft and uh there was there was a whole bunch of them wolf wits i mean that guy just looked like a demon. You know? I mean, all of those fucking, the whole administration was filled with chicken hawks that were all about Jesus and wanted to go over there and kick some ass and fucking blow shit up. It's interesting you mention Wolfowitz because in terms of like what we're saying about the left can be intolerant of other ideas. A lot of these guys, especially Wolfowitz, were former Marxists. When Wolfowitz was young at university, he was a revolutionary Marxist. And it's interesting that oftentimes

people who are hyper-revolutionary socialists can flip into becoming hyper-Ayn Randian idealistic reactionaries. And there's the same kind of... It's not that different when you think about it. Like, people think of them as being ideas that are at the end of a political spectrum. But it's actually more like a horseshoe, right?

Where at one end, you think that you can overthrow the capitalist system and create a utopia in which everyone is going to be equal and it's going to be from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. And then at the other end, you believe that you can wipe societies clean, you can go into Iraq and raise everything and then start from fresh and democracy will spring up and people will be able to live in peace. I mean, they're both basically kind of messianic, utopian ideas about change instead of the sort of change that I think actually works, which is just incremental grudging change bit by bit, slowly eking it out. That's not what Cheney and Wolfowitz think the world is all about.

No, they tried to force change and force change at home and abroad. And that's where the conspiracy theories come in about 9-11 and the attacks and Dick Cheney saying that we need something like a new Pearl Harbor. And that's where people really freak out because they look at how much people actually did profit from that event. So they go, well, okay, is it possible that someone had a part in letting that event happen or helping that event happen or ignoring the fact that event was going to happen and allowing it to happen? Or is it a matter of people just capitalizing on an event, which is what the most logical point of view is, that they're just incompetent, the event happened, and then they capitalized on it like any good

dictatorship does? Yeah, exactly. I mean, I do think, like, when you look at how incompetently they managed Iraq, when you look at how incompetently they managed Katrina, when you look at how incompetently they managed things that they wanted to get right. The idea that they could have pulled off something like that within eight months of entering office, I find implausible.

Like whenever the, if I have to choose between incompetence versus a massive conspiracy, I usually think people are just generally incompetent. How do you even start that conversation? How do you even say, listen, hear this out before you get get crazy, hear this out. I got an idea.

We got to talk some dudes into flying planes into the World Trade Center in Towers 1 and 2. We're going to hijack planes filled with people. We're going to talk these guys into flying them into the buildings. They'd be like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Who the fuck is going to do that? Religious people. You got to get them to believe that there's a bunch of pussy waiting for them in heaven. And all they have to do is fly these planes to the building to get that pussy.

Yeah. But see, Joe, these plans had long been hatched because there were camps in Afghanistan, which we were funding. Is that your Alex Jones impression? I can feel it coming on. No, folks, I'm Alex Jones. Alex Jones would be yelling at me right now, explaining why I'm wrong. Also, there's a much easier way to have done it, which is if you wanted a pretext to go into Iraq, all you'd need to do would be – I was talking to a national defense guy about this. He was like, there was a no-fly zone over Iraq. The CIA could have painted a U.S. plane the Iraqi colors and just faked a shoot-down of a U.S. or British jet that was patrolling the no-fly zone and you would have a clear, a much clearer case actually in international law to go to war than the vague case that they did do because they didn't, I mean it wasn't connected to 9-11 so

they had to make up this shit about WMDs and all that sort of stuff. You could easily have orchestrated something without bringing down the world trade towers that would have given you a good reason to go into Iraq. Well that was one of the main reasons why a lot of people bought into... Do you know about Operation Northwoods? Do you know that story? I've only heard you talk about it, yeah. The Operation Northwoods, that was that exact plan to get people to go to war with Cuba, to get us excited about it. They were going to blow up an American drone. They were going to send a jetliner up in the air with no one in it and shoot it out of the sky. They were going to send a jetliner up in the air with no one in it and shoot it out of the sky. They were going to arm

Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. That was the main idea behind it. It was like, this would be the way we could get people excited about going to war with Cuba because, you know, that whole Bay of Pigs and all that fucking disaster that happened when Kennedy was in office. I mean, and then the missile crisis. There was a lot of tension

going on with Cuba. So they had concocted this idea it's called operation northwoods it was signed by the joint chiefs of staff so they went with it like they were like sounds like democracy and they let's just fucking lie to people and blow shit up and kill americans they were gonna fucking kill americans in guantanamo bay oh you blame it on the cubans i'm sure they have and because they're so because they're such unscrupulous assholes and they do all of they they do these legitimate conspiracy theories. That's what gives people reasons to believe in the more in what I regard as being the much more ridiculous conspiracy

theories. Yes. But it would be a lot better if they just didn't do any of this shit in the first place. And then people wouldn't be out of their minds being so suspicious about whether or not 9-11 was an inside job. Well, there's also there was the word that Dick Cheney was discussing the possibility of doing something like that for Iran before they left office. They were talking about orchestrating a false flag on Iran before they left office and they never pulled it off. Whether or not that's true or not remains to bestag, when, I mean, the whole, what happened to get us into Vietnam. Well, that's right. Like the Gulf of Tonkin and stuff like that. Yeah, the Gulf of Tonkin, they pretended we got shot down.

No, that's right. And there's also, you don't even have to go as far as like the Nazis, just in terms of what the CIA has done in counterinsurgency operations in South America and stuff. The involvement in the coup has done in counter-insurgency operations in South America and stuff, the involvement in the coup in 1973 in Chile. I was reading up about that lately because I went to Chile a couple of years ago. I mean, it's not that they absolutely, completely manufacture total bullshit from whole cloth, but they give voice to conspiracy theories in those particular countries. They fund media outlets that are spreading what the CIA wants to get heard. And they just basically put their finger on the scales

of something so that it goes another way. I mean, the democratically elected government in Chile was overthrown by a brutal military dictatorship, which then lasted for an entire generation, thanks largely to the CIA. I mean, we don't even think or hear or learn about that stuff. And do you think that it's possible for them to go, listen, you gotta break some eggs

to make an omelette. Yeah, sure. You want America to be America, land the free home of the brave? Well, there's only one way. We gotta fucking lie to you.

We gotta kick some ass. There's a lot of shit we'd like to tell you, but the world works in a really fucked up way and you don't want to know about that because you want to watch

Real Housewives. Exactly. This is what we're gonna do. No, and I actually have some sympathy for that idea. A friend of mine is the former director of the CIA. I spent a Thanksgiving with him once down in Washington, D.C. Did you look in his basement?

No. It's all skulls. Open the door, skulls roll out in the hallway. What the fuck? And when I talk to people like that, yeah, I do understand that our vision of the world is a very small sliver and can be quite naive very naive their attitude is when you're actually working in the national security apparatus there is apparatus apparatus you might have made a word that'll do apparatus

sure you think you made up a word but it sounds so good i like it if you didn't just like stop yourself then apparatus would be a new word. A lot of people at home would have went, I'm going, okay. Seems like a smart guy. If you actually work there, then I think your outlook is basically what you just articulated, which is it'll be lovely if we all lived in a world with ice cream and candy and where the lions slept with the lambs and the postman hugged the dogs and we were all dancing in the streets.

But listen, Honcho, it's a tough world out there and either the Saddam Husseins and the Putins are going to rule it or we are. And sometimes you have to break a few eggs in order to make an omelette and sometimes you have to do things that might not seem pretty on the surface. But I'll tell you what,

we're the ones who are standing on the wall watching God. So you go about your little business and we'll take care of shit. I heard the national anthem playing while you said that. I really did. Which one, the Australian one? America, America God shed his grace

on thee. Wait, that's not the national anthem. Whatever. That's America the Beautiful. It's all the same shit. Are you even American? I'm probably Canadian or something. Barely American. America the Beautiful should be the national anthem. Can I just say that? It's a great song. Much better. Star Spangled Banner. I can take it or leave it.

Well, Star Spangled Banner has rockets in it, though. I'm going to probably stick with that. The rocket's red glare. And the rocket's red glare. The bombs bursting in air. What? The bombs are bursting in air? That's in our fucking national anthem?

I love how warmongering so many national anthems are. Like the French. The French one literally has lyrics about the blood of our enemies will fill the canals of France. Whoa. It's like, it's serious shit. It's unrealistic. How many people do you have to kill?

You guys are just lying. There's no way. It's not going to happen. Bombs actually could burst in air. They could, and do, and have done. Fill the canals of blood. Who the fuck are you killing, man? You'd have to kill everybody.

You'd have to kill everybody on the planet to fill the canals of blood. There'd be no you killing, man? You'd have to kill everybody. You'd have to kill everybody on the planet to fill the canals of blood. There'd be no one left. Well, I mean, they killed a lot of Germans. And the Germans killed a lot of Russians. Have you seen some of the numbers? There's a great graphic that I think, like, Vox produced or something

about the number of people in total who were killed in the World Wars. Each one represented, like, each thousand or million or something is represented by a little block. I don't even... Yeah, I know what you're talking about. But it's just crazy when you start seeing how many people you're like oh this is a lot who were killed in for example the iraq war and it goes

back to vietnam you know world war one but world war two like the towards the final few years of world war two even excluding the holocaust just looking at people like the mainly russians it's just it's just millions upon millions upon millions of people, like 20 million people. We don't think about the Russians that died in World War II either. No, a lot more of them died than us. And often, I mean, if you talk to a military historian, what really ended the war, yes, D-Day was important,

but the Soviets won the war. I mean, it was the fact that the Nazis were just hemorrhaging in the East that meant that they couldn't put up any defenses in the West. So D-Day was a about France and what happened to them during World War II is the amount of France to this day that you literally can't even visit because it's so filled with waste from all the bombs that were dropped. Have you seen, there's an area larger than Paris that's completely fenced in and you can't go in it

because it's got so much munitions and so many bombs that were dropped there.'s got so much munitions and so many bombs that were dropped there it's so fucked up that it'll be that way for something like a hundred thousand years or something crazy i mean it's for poison gas and all kinds of shit there are bodies there are just still bodies just bones and shit there's this little town in northern france called villas bretna where the aussies were i mean you know no one ever thinks about the aussies and then new zealanders and all those little countries who were fighting there as well. But, of course, they had their own little plots that they had to fight.

And there was this big heroic stand against the Germans, which the Aussies were in charge of at Villers-Bretonneux. And still to this day, in the schools, in the elementary schools there, they sing the Australian national anthem. They have little Australian flags flying and stuff because their fields are just littered with the bodies of australians in northern france from the world war whoa that's crazy nutty what were we doing over there doesn't make any sense opposite side of the world should have just stayed home well i think we saw some of those hitler speeches and went oh okay we're gonna have to do something here this is this guy this guy might he might have the right stuff to fucking become the real darth vader yeah that's a that that charismatic person who's completely insane that

wants to conquer the world and gets a whole nation behind him is so donald trump i mean it's so crazy and scary i mean that's kind of what we're, he's not trying to take over the world, but it shows you how problematic personality can be when it comes to someone being chosen to be the leader. Especially to this day, in this day rather. We're so soft. This day of food coming on these little styrofoam trays and being able to pull up to Wendy's and get a fucking cheeseburger in 15 seconds. We're so weak. and get a fucking cheeseburger in 15 seconds. We're so weak, and it's so easy to exist,

that we're excited about this guy possibly overturning the apple cart. People are pumped about it. And people don't have any other options as well. I feel like Bernie and Trump were the ways, in different ways, that people had, that people who've been shat on for a long time, white working class dudes mostly, that people who've been shat on for a long time, white working class dudes mostly, have to, like, I mean, when you look at the fact that middle,

you know, incomes of middle American has been stagnating for the past 30 years, manufacturing has been in decline. Like, there hasn't been a rise in working class incomes in America since the 80s. I was surprised that Elizabeth Warren didn't get more traction. It seems like once that Native American stuff came out about her, she just went, okay, I'm just going to step over here. I honestly think she believes that she's more useful in the Senate.

Maybe, but you know the Native American stuff. Yeah. Where she faked a Native American heritage in order to get some sort of a scholarship or something like that. Things like that, my brain, it just hits the, this is probably a beat-up part of my brain, and it just goes straight out my ear. Because I don't really give a shit about stuff like that. Really? You don't care about someone faking their ethnicity?

Well, I didn't look into it enough. Would she have needed to? She's like a brilliant woman. Why was she doing it? She wanted to get into a university? That's a good question. Pull that up, Jamie. Find out what the fuck that was all about. But, I don't know. I mean, who knows if she actually did it. Maybe someone else did it and she sort of went with it.

It's so difficult to tell without talking to her. If it's a Rachel Dolezal thing where someone has spent their whole life pretending to be something that they're not, then I think, yes. There's quite a few of those out there, though. Yeah. Then I do think that that's disqualifying. But I feel like if the only thing that your political opponents can dig up on you is that you filled out a form wrong but that's not filling out a form wrong it's being deceptive about your ethnicity in order to take advantage of like people that are undermined by society I mean when you go with Native American let's kill her let's put her into Trump's concentration camps It's only black and white in America

We don't have any graves Yeah Trump is fascinating isn't he I can't believe it's actually going to happen Oh he might win He's real close to winning Because I just don't know Whether or not Hillary can hold up to scrutiny

When you're talking about her being under two criminal investigations Right now The immediate future There's two criminal investigations in the right now right now immediate future There's two criminal investigations going on. They just gave immunity to the guy who set up that email server Mm-hmm. They just deported him. They brought him over to America extra item. What do they do? What's that called? They brought him over to America and gave him immunity. So what the fuck man? What it's gonna happen now? Well, yeah, we are one I was talking to our guy hacked it rather. All right immunity. Yeah So what the fuck, man? What is going to happen now? Well, yeah, we are one. I was talking to Artie. The guy who hacked it, rather.

Oh, right. The guy who gave immunity. Yeah. I was talking to Artie Lang on my podcast about which people didn't get it. That's not true. Hold on a second. They gave immunity to the guy who set up the server. They extradited the guy who created the hack.

He doesn't have immunity. Where's he from? The guy who hacked. I think he's from Romania. Of course he is. Is that right? Of course he's from Romania. The guy who hacked into the email servers and exposed all that. I want to say he's from a very small rural town in Romania. I'm not kidding. Even if that's not true, I like that picture. I

like that image of him just in a shed in a barn in the middle of nowhere in icy cold Romania. I think it's true though. Romanian hacker. Gooseifer. I breached Clinton's server. It was easy. Yeah. This guy, he got arrested and he's in jail. But the guy who set up the actual server itself, by the way, which is in her bathroom. Okay, what? Why would you put a server in your bathroom? Okay, who knows? But that guy got immunity.

And this guy got extra. The Clintons are just so frustratingly paranoid. Even if there was nothing, even if she wasn't doing anything wrong, the fact that she's so paranoid as to need to set that up because she's so terrified that someone's going to get access to her emails. Well, you know what they did? They spent a million dollars to fight off social media opinions. Do you know about this? No. Look at this.

The PAC spends $1 million to correct commenters on Reddit and Facebook. A million dollars. They spent a million dollars to fight off people that don't like Clinton. I mean, what they're doing is they're trying to engineer public support. Public support that Bernie Sanders has got organically. Yeah. That becomes really dangerous. And that Trump has organically.

Trump has organically too. Maybe. We don't know. Well, here's the thing. What he does have is even people who hate him acknowledge that he is not full of bullshit and that he's not spouting someone else's lines, right? He doesn't seem manufactured. He's obviously not a conventional politician.

I can dislike all of his policies as much as I do, but I can still regard him as being a breath of fresh air. Hold on. You don't like his policies? What about the wall? The wall's a great idea. Are you a Pink Floyd fan? I am a Pink Floyd fan? I am a Pink Floyd fan.

Actually, I don't think the wall is the craziest of, is even close to his craziest of ideas. What's the craziest? Keeping Muslims out of the country? Yeah, probably not allowing any non-citizen Muslim into the United States is not only crazy, but incredibly dangerous. Because I think that if we want to be able to conquer Islamism and jihadism and Islamist terrorism, we've got to find a way of – I mean, our best resources are moderate Muslims inside the United States, right, who have their ear to the ground, who will notice mosques that might be becoming radicalized. You want to appear to be a friendly, tolerant democracy. to be a friendly, tolerant democracy. And of course you want to put in place all the security precautions that are necessary and you don't want to just be allowing millions of unscreened people to come pouring in the

way that they have in Europe. But we don't have that problem here because we've got oceans between us. So we can pick and choose who comes in. Well, that's also why it gets really weird when you start talking about the CIA and the CIA infiltrating different organizations. It's like that's where you kind of support it you kind of support clandestine behavior and sneakiness and deception because they're they're pretty good at it they've been doing it for a long time and they know how to

get deep into organizations you know like you ever see the show homeland yeah bro yeah I mean was that a documentary no uh I mean the idea of a wall to me, but I come from a country, Australia, which is surrounded, it's an island. So, like, of course there are not that, like, the idea of people just pouring across the border back and forth and coming in for seasonal work. And, like, that to me does strike me as odd. Yeah. That there's an undefended border i don't i don't i don't think it would be a good investment of money i think it's silly i think it's a distraction if you talk to technology experts they say that there are much better ways of securing the border

than with a physical wall you can have drones and things and you can have you know all kinds of crazy shit um but because people will dig under a wall or they'll climb over a wall it's not it's not it's not nearly as sophisticated as the kind of technology that you could use but i don't think there's anything inherently like bigoted about it i think deporting every single person who's here illegally is an overreaction and you like have you seen the stats about how many 747s full of people you would need to get all of all 11 million undocumented People in America there's more than 11 million in LA by the way this idea that there's 11 million undocumented people in America It's fucking hilarious I'm 405 at 3 in the afternoon and look around because there's fucking

Millions and millions of people that are from Canada that are from Canada millions of people from Mexico That's racist, Joe Rogan. That are from Canada, millions of people from Mexico, millions of people from all sorts of spots that aren't supposed to be here. They got visas and stayed. That shit is rampant. I know. And the bloody Aussies, not to mention. Go to Santa Monica.

Every barista's an Aussie. You guys don't let anybody in Australia either. Like boatloads of people that try to get over there. Not if they come illegally. Fuck that. Spin them around, light them on fire, and push them out to the ocean. Many people don't fucking play over there Australia's policy has been

Since the 80s That you have a very high level of legal migration And a high level of refugees Of refugee intake Like on a per capita basis Australia is one of certainly the top 10 most generous countries In terms of people coming in More than half of the population of Australia has arrived since the second world War. Really? Yep. So it's actually a higher immigrant proportion

country than the United States. If you do it legally. If you do it legally. But we have this quite controversial and pretty inhumane, but I suppose defensible policy, which is if you pay a people smuggler to make your way all the way from Afghanistan or Iran or wherever it is you're coming from or Syria, and you pass through a bazillion other different countries through Malaysia through Singapore you make your way down to Indonesia and you're rich enough to get on a boat that then comes to Australia you will never be settled in Australia really never ever ever never you'll be intercepted and you'll be sent to uh one of a couple of pacific island nations there's a place called Manus Island in Papua New Guinea, I believe.

There's another place called Nauru, which is a country in its own right. And they have set up these big detention centers there. And people can end up there for years or even decades while their cases get heard. It's really barbaric. People sew their fucking lips together in protest. One guy just set himself on fire in front of United Nations inspectors who were there. It's really not pretty stuff. But the government says, listen, we used to have, under the previous government which relaxed these policies,

50,000 people died at sea trying to get to Australia in boats, including women and children. Now almost nobody tries to come to Australia by boat anymore because they know they're never going to settle. So what do you prefer, a few hundred people basically being stuck in indefinite detention on some shitty pacific island or 50 000 people dying at sea trying to get here because they think they're going to be resettled plus australia remains awesome that's where it gets weird it's pretty fucking badass there

so if you're trying to like look at the end result you might go man the result might justify the means because like go to melbourne it's fucking beautiful. It's great. It's incredible. Yeah. It's like paradise. There's something about Australia that to me, it's like, woo, they might have it nailed. There's only 20 million people in the entire country. It's a fucking huge country. The landscape is gorgeous.

You don't have any ozone layer though. No, that's the problem. Everyone's got cancer. You get sunburned and you get cancer. Instantly. Yeah. No, Australia has 23 million people, so what's that, about half the population of California? California's about 40, right?

That's L.A. Yeah, so the greater L.A. area, if you include all the way up to Malibu and down to Long Beach and all that. And that's in an area the same size as the contiguous United States. Yeah, crazy. And everybody lives in the edges. Yeah. The middle is all spiders and shit.

Crocodiles and lizards. Kangaroos and spiders. Fucking nuts, man. It's a crazy place. Yeah. But Canada's kind of like that. Canada's only got 35 million people, and it's bigger than the United States, even including Alaska. But it's fucking frozen most of the time.

Yeah. It's the same. Canada and Australia are kind of very similar in that they're enormous but totally inhospitable. I mean, you could no sooner live in most parts of Canada than you could live in most parts of Australia where there's just no water and no vegetation. Australia is desert. Canada is ice. But not really ice. You'd probably be better off trying Canada than you would Australia.

Yeah, definitely. Well, you could get water. You could make fires and stuff. I mean, if there's no water, you. Yeah, definitely. Well, you could get water, you could make fires and stuff. I mean, if there's no water, you're screwed. Right. But there's a lot of people that live, like I have some friends that live in Alberta. They live way up there. They live in, it's fucking cold shit.

The wintertime up there is like 30, 40 below zero. It's crazy. But they live there. They're fine. Well, with modern civilization, I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing about australia and canada is as you say we all huddle along a very very narrow strip in australia that's the coast and in canada it's the border don't you think it's easier though to live in a cold climate than an inhospitably hot climate because you could dress

for a cold climate you can get in your car you drive around you're all right you get in your house it's warm but hot climates are fucking scary. Like, it gets too hot to survive outside. For whatever reason, that's way scarier because you can't dress for it. Like, you can wear, like, really insulated clothes, and you can actually stand outside at 10 below. You grew up in the Northeast, right? But if you're outside and it's 130 degrees outside, you're fucked. I feel like this just comes from what you're used to.

I reckon because you grew up in the Northeast, you're not as scared of the cold. I find, like when I first moved to New York, I remember saying to people back in Australia, why is there even a city here? Why did anyone ever come across the ocean and build a fucking city here where it's literally so cold that a dog's piss on the sidewalk will turn into ice. It's like I'm in the TV show The Dome and it's just a giant freezer. Because I never had the conception of actually being sub-freezing. Like, shit is just freezing.

You should not be living anywhere where if you fell over drunk at night and hit your head, you would be dead by the morning. But then again, shouldn't we get rid of some dummies? Shouldn't we thin the herd a little bit? You know, if you're fucking falling asleep out in the street drunk. I mean, it's sad when it happens to people. You hear about it with, like, college kids. They freeze to death. It happens, like, every other year or so.

Some college kid in New Hampshire will get drunk, fall asleep outside, and freeze to death. Shouldn't be living there. Don't do it. Move all of Canada and the Northeast down to the mid-Atlantic states and be done with it. It's not bad, though, if you have warm clothes. If you have warm clothes, you could survive up there. It's not that bad.

Well, I mean, if you have air conditioning, people live in Phoenix. No, but sub-zero temperatures. Like, if it's zero outside, you can walk around. You can go places. Like, if it's 130 degrees outside, you can walk around. You can go places. Like, if it's 130 degrees outside, you can't go anywhere. That's true. You can not only go places when it's sub-freezing. I have been

swimming. My sister-in-law is Finnish, and in Finland, they go in the saunas, and then they go out and swim in lakes in the middle of nowhere when it is minus 22 degrees. I've been swimming in a lake when it's minus 22 degrees. The whole thing is been swimming in a lake when it's minus 22 degrees. The whole thing is frozen over.

Oh, my God. They just chip a hole in it? Yeah, they don't need to chip it. They have a hose, like a water spout, so the water keeps moving so that it can't form ice. And maybe they start by chipping it, but it's basically like a bubbling cold pool. And you sit in the sauna, which is, you know,

it's nudging 100 degrees Celsius. I don't know what that is, 200 degrees Fahrenheit or something. And then you come out through the air, which is minus 20 Fahrenheit. I think it crosses Fahrenheit and Celsius cross over in the low minus 20s. And then you get in the water. You can't put your head under because you can go into this condition where your brain essentially shuts down and goes into freeze. But yeah, there you go. It's an image of people in Finland.

They love it. So that looks like they cut a hole in the ice. Yeah, that looks like they cut a hole in the ice, but that's not me. If you go to my Facebook, you can probably find it back there somewhere in the deep, dark and distant past. Damn. Yeah. Yeah, well, people love that, that ice cold, ice cold, going back and forth between the two of them. It is amazing.

It gives you a high. It does. Well, it actually really does. It actually produces certain chemicals in your brain. Epinephrine, is that what it is? Norpinephrine, norpinephrine. I'll believe you. Dr. Rhonda Patrick was on.

She was talking about cold shock therapy, cold shock proteins, and heat shock proteins, and that there's different proteins that we produce in the sauna, and the sauna is really beneficial for hormone production, for sleep, melatonin production, all sorts of different things. I think it's melatonin. It might not have been. But all sorts of growth hormone, for sure. That was one of them. But things that rejuvenate the body produced by these heat shock proteins.

I mean, just look at the Nordic people and people in like northern Germany They will swear by saunas I mean the Swedes and the Norwegians and the Finns and the Danes I mean it's not like these are not people who you'd want to emulate These are very attractive healthy long-living people Yeah they're robust Yes Yeah I think there's definitely something to it

To both sauna and cold baths. You know Wim Hof? You know who Wim Hof is? The Wim Hof method of breathing, and he's got something like 26 world records. He's been on the podcast before, too. 26 world records about dealing with climate and cold. He summited Everest in his shorts with ice sandals on. I'm not even kidding. No oxygen, didn't bring any oxygen with him.

He's a maniac. Crazy. But he's developed this ability to tolerate extreme temperature changes. And he swears by it. He thinks it's the great teacher about life and who you are and what you are and just invigorates you in some strange way. I mean, when you meet the guy, you believe it because he's like radiating energy yeah it's funny what people i mean it's like tim tim ferris as well right where he'll go through periods where he's taking ice baths and doing all this crazy

shit and measuring the impact that it has on his physiology and i'm just too lazy man i don't like wow sorry i can't talk to you anymore dude I'm sorry Sorry Yeah I understand man Did you see the Did you see the Philadelphia conference That I sent you About white people's guilt I'm guilty You are guilty

What did I do I was white There was a white privilege conference Oh that's right I love that article Explain that I tweeted this I retweeted it I'm sure

Yeah yeah you did I was like Why is my I tweeted this. I retweeted it, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, you did. I was like, why is my Twitter blowing up? Oh, Joe retweeted me. So there was this white privilege conference, which was a kind of politically correct talk fest, right? And it basically ended up consuming itself entirely because the people who were attending it decided that the conference itself had become too white. So they were all there. So they had this hashtag, White Privilege Conference, So White, WPC, So White.

And it started after one of the speakers there, who was a white historian, went over time, and an Asian-American attendee, a woman, tweeted out, Great keynote, but going over time allotted is another example of white supremacy. Hashtag white privilege conference so white. And he also made the mistake of using the N-word in his speech. I mean, he obviously was using it in a historical context

because he was talking about race in America. But once that happened, I mean, what could possibly go wrong using the N-word at a conference about white guilt, right? Then everyone starts tweeting, N-word never acceptable from hashtag white folks lips. Deeply offensive and traumatizing. Hashtag white privilege conference so white. And that was from a white tweeter. So then it's like a snake eating its fucking tail, right?

All these white people just accusing one another of being too white. You're all white. We get it. We get it. It's what Michael Shermer calls virtue signaling. Right. Yeah. Right. It's they're letting everyone know. It's perfect. It's a perfect term. They're trying to find someone who's made some sort of an error and they're attacking them with full force. Yep. And it's also like they're ignoring context on purpose. It's like by saying that the word is, it's never acceptable to say the N word, by saying that and putting that in a tweet, that's not true.

It's just not true. Like if there's a reason to say it, if you're explaining something that happened, what someone said, how they said it, you are allowed to repeat the word. The idea that you're not allowed to repeat the word around grown adults is to pretend that word is magic. Yeah. To pretend that word's gonna conjure demons. Well, it also empowers the

word. In fact, I feel stupid for even having used the phrase the n-word, because ordinarily I just say nigger if I'm talking about the existence of that word. Shut the podcast off, Jamie! But hey, I'm Australian, so I don't understand context, right? But, I mean, I was talking about this existence of that word. Shut the podcast off, Jamie! But hey, I'm Australian, so I don't understand context, right? But I mean, I was talking about this on my podcast about, I do think that we've gotten away from, like, where is the other person's heart and what is their intention? So like, if you ever use that word in anger at another person, I think you're a total

cunt and you should not do that. Or, you're on a nigger. Sorry. That's true. I didn't mean that mean that ladies and gentlemen i couldn't help it there's a stand-up comedian in me but um but if you're just using it in conversation in order to talk about the existence of the word we know that though everyone knows that and i think it's a duh thing here's the problem with a lot of these these things where you attack someone's use of a word. It's duh. It becomes one of those things like, if someone says sexism is bad, racism is bad, we need to be a more integrated and complete and whole culture and society,

and we need to look at each other for, like Martin Luther King said, the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Isn't that duh? At a certain point in time... Some people think that it's not duh enough in enough places with enough people. But are we going to educate racists or are we just going to toot our own horn as to how non-racist we are? Right. The latter.

Because another one of the tweets that happened at this conference read, A white woman telling a black woman to close the door at a workshop session. Another example of hashtag white privilege conference so white. You're not allowed to tell a person of color to do anything. No. Josh Zeps. That's right. Because they're gentle little flowers.

What if they just leave the water running? What do you mean? You're allowed to say, hey, can you shut that water off? No, that's racist. Oh, okay. What if they just throw lit cigarettes on the ground outside? Are you allowed to correct them? No, that racist racist okay what if um let's just spend the whole rest of the podcast going through hypothetical anecdotes about what would

be racist it is very strange that there is a word that certain people are allowed to use like the black people can use it and they can even use it as a form of empowerment. But I think that's okay, isn't it? Do you think that's hypocritical? I reckon if you, if we all, I reckon if your people and your ancestors have been fucked over completely for 400 years, then it's a little bit rich when the, when the people who belong to the ethnicity that's been fucking you over, don't let you reclaim the word that was previously oppressive.

Oh, a hundred percent. Not only that, it, in practice, it seems correct when it's being done. Like if a white person uses the word and they use it freely, like me, even me just using it in that joke, just joking around, it's like, what have you done? You know it's a joke and it's still, it impacts in some sort of a very bizarre way but if a rapper is using it it seems like like like someone's saying you know like you know yeah you know what i'm saying man you know you know you know i mean it's become that but it was subversive when black people started saying it right in the same right but my point being a white person saying the exact same things is

horrific and shocking yeah like that stitches guy that stitches guy likes that word he throws the word around all the time I bet he does doesn't surprise me at all yeah no that's not him that's not him I'll stitches the one with the Joker yeah yeah yeah you gotta get your white people straight the other guy the birds the black guy that's gucci main he uses it too but she's not racist I just mistook a white person for a black person you're amazing I don't even see color president too bad you're born at some other shit hole I know you're here, you could have a fucking real good run at it. I'm just not good enough.

I can't do what Trump does. I look at that admiringly. I'm like, how does he have the balls, the audacity? But you wouldn't do it that way. No. One of the things that I think is fascinating about Trump and really problematic is that human beings love to be united in tribes and not necessarily always good tribes. We love to be united in tribes. And whether it's tribes of people who use Mac over windows, whether it's tribes of Android users,

or there's tribes of people from Wisconsin versus tribes from people from Texas, we love to be in a fucking collective group of people. Even if it's not a good group, even if it's not good ideas. And one of the things that I get disturbed about with this Trump thing is how many annoying, goofy white dudes are really into him.

There's an anti-intellectual aspect, like a shut down debate aspect about this. Yeah. I think there's a lot of that. Yeah, I'm being sarcastic because, of course, there's an anti-intellectual strain to Trump's support. Not all of it, though. This is not a- There's intelligent people that support him, too.

Totally. Which I find fascinating. But they're not supporting him because his ideas are intelligent. They're supporting him in spite of the fact that they're intelligent because there's something about his vibe that appeals. I feel like there's a bunch of people supporting him because he's winning, and they want to see him win, and they want to get in on some of that winning. There's a bunch of dumb white dudes that are hopping aboard that, that are just letting you know, he's winning, he's winning, Trump's winning. I think it's partly that.

I think it's partly exhaustion with the political correctness that we've just been talking about, and the fact that they feel like they can't say anything about the threat of Islamist terrorism or about the changing demographics of America or about illegal immigration without being branded as a bigot. And I think it's also just what I was saying before about him seeming refreshing. Like, it's the same back in Australia. I was back in Australia about six weeks ago, and I was on a panel TV show there and they were asking me about Trump like the audience asks questions and stuff and I was trying to explain it by reference to the fact that even in Australia people don't feel like politicians are speaking their language like actual human beings and are like take for example gay marriage in Australia Australia still doesn't

have gay marriage you should be psyched about that You don't have to give away half your money. Sorry, honey. Can't do it. I'd love to marry you. Shit ain't happening. I'd be fucking pumped. Tax laws are different, though. It's actually better to be married in Australia than it is not to be married.

It's not like here where they screw you. How's that? I don't understand at all. Someone's going to take half your shit. No, it's not. If you get divorced, they're going to take half your shit. Yeah. No, that's what I'm saying. Listen, you're better off. I thought

you meant taxes. Fuck taxes. Don't worry about that. So, Australia is one of the most pro-gay marriage places in the world when you actually poll people. 70 or 80% of the population wants gay marriage. It's one of the least religious countries in the world when you poll people. More than 60% of the population don't believe in God or go to church regularly. The last prime minister, well, the prime minister before last was an unmarried atheist woman. So it's not like this is a place where you would expect people to be opposed to gay marriage. I bet what's going on. I bet I get it. I bet gay dudes are secretly going and voting against gay marriage so they don't have to get married. That's it. I think that's what it is. You nailed it. I think it's like these pot dealers up in Northern California that secretly voted against marijuana

legalization because they wanted to keep it illegal so they could make more money and they wouldn't have to turn in the taxes for it. Oh, that's shrewd. It's dirty. It's dirty and it's prevalent. I talked to some growers that were telling me they were going to vote against it. They were going to vote against legalization because legalization would have fucked them over economically. And I know I'm being selfish, but, man, that's how we do it up here. Yeah. I mean, do you think the Mexican drug cartels want to enter the war on drugs? Hell no.

Of course not. It's a good point. Why would you? Yeah, why would you? But, I mean, my point is simply that the Prime Minister of Australia currently favors gay marriage. There's a majority in Parliament for it. And instead, because he had to do some shady backroom deal to get into power with his fellow party hacks,

they're not doing it now. There's going to be like a plebiscite, which is like a non-binding referendum about it or something. My only point was, it's so obvious that politicians are so full of shit and that they're beholden to people other than the people who elected them, that whether you're listening to Ted Cruz or Hillary Clinton, people just have a sense that they're being fed lines. Did you hear Hillary talking about after Trump accused her of playing the woman's card?

She goes, you know, If it's playing the woman's card to believe in equal pay, then deal me in. I'm like, nobody speaks like that. Why are you speaking like that? Why do you sound like that? So I can imagine people going... That's so gross. Hearing that is so gross.

First of all, she was a person who said that marriage should be between a man and a woman until 2013. Okay, 2013. In fucking 2013, she was still saying that. That is just retarded. Isn't it convenient how her views on everything just happen to evolve at exactly the same point so that when 51% of the American population comes around to them, she has an awakening? It's just so mysterious, that.

I just don't understand. And clue me in this. Who is trying to keep gay marriage illegal in Australia? Because if there's all those people, you would think that if the majority of the people wanted it, if the prime minister wanted it, if all these people wanted it, who's working and what benefit is there of keeping it illegal? So think about, I think everyone knows it's going to happen. It's just a matter of trying to postpone it. knows it's going to happen it's just a matter of trying to postpone it but it's but what's basically happened is that there is a rift between within the conservative party between conservative conservatives and progressive and like socially liberal conservatives so think

about the republican party here where you've got like christian evangelicals as a component of it but you've also got the rand paul slash maybe donald trump kind of contingent people who aren't who don't want who don't really care what people do in the privacy of their own homes, but they're fiscally conservative. Those people, that faction had previously nominated their leader to be the prime minister, and that was the prime minister. He got stabbed in the back by one of his colleagues who's socially liberal, and the only way that he could get the support of the faction that he needed to become prime minister was by guaranteeing them that he wouldn't move too fast on gay marriage. So it's a minority of a minority of like culturally conservative conservatives who represent rural districts with a bunch of farmers in them.

Ah, the farmers. You know. It's always the goddamn farmers. I had a joke in one of my old specials. There's only two types of people that care about gay marriage. People who are really dumb or people that are secretly worried that dicks are delicious. I think that makes sense. That's right.

Fucking farmers. Someone's got to get them to suck a dick. Exactly. I can realize. What's all the hoopla all about? What about... Just go ahead and suck it you probably won't even like it uh and then you'd be like yeah look i'd marry a guy i don't give a fuck what about the guy who was sucking all those horse dicks and um and uh claw is that is that

who was seattle was he he was dressed up in like leather and he'd go out in the farm in the middle of the night and he'd like give horses ohjobs? Oh, you're talking about the guy who got arrested several times. I'm talking about the guy who died. He died from getting fucked by a horse? His name was, they used to call him Mr. Hands. I love that you know his name. Yeah. There was a documentary called Zoo and it was all about zoophilia, which is a real sexual

attraction that people have to farm animals. Always white people people by the way Hollow white people actually I think the guy who got arrested was black Yep, I think just covered in leather. No He was black leather, bro He's from Australia It's also kind of adding insult to injury for the animal that you're actually wearing leather you I'm wearing your skin at the same time as I fuck you. He's not wearing horse hair, though. No, maybe not.

Yeah, it's different. It's different species. But this guy who lived in Enumclaw, they had found each other online on a forum. Him and the horse? Him and all these people. They developed this relationship online with these people that were really into horses and getting

fucked by farm animals. And so they invested in this property and they got this farm and they had these horses. There was over 100 hours of footage of these people getting fucked by animals. And one guy- They tape it? Mm-hmm. Oh, there's a video of it. You can watch it.

You want to see? Absolutely. What else am I doing this afternoon, Joe? You want to see? Absolutely. What else am I doing this afternoon, Jack? The way folks who are listening only, I urge you to go to YouTube just to watch the subtle twist of his head. Absolutely.

Mate, I've got a week in Los Angeles. I've got a lot of time on my hands between meetings. I'll be watching that. Do you want to win the lottery? Absolutely. Man in famous Enumclaw horse sex faces new charges in Tennessee. Oh, it's a different guy. What year is this? 2009's after that guy was dead.

It says, okay, here it is. A former Washington state man who was convicted of trespassing at an Enumclaw farm where a man was fatally injured while having sex with a horse in 2005, right, is accused of having sex with animals on a Tennessee farm. So one of the same people that was in that group, the guy died in 2005. Well, yeah, what did they think he was going to do, grow out of it? I mean, the way you hardwired is the way you hardwired. It's like, I don't know about all that. I would think that once my friend got fucked to death, I might want to reconsider it. Well, yeah, you would think that's sensible.

But it's like, I mean, I think it's like being gay or something. I always get in trouble because when we talk about pedophilia and stuff like that, I sort of make the same analogy, which is I have, I mean, whilst it's the worst conceivable thing that I can imagine anyone doing morally, I have some sympathy for people who are hardwired in such a way that they get a hard-on from infants or animals or something, right? I mean, the reason I'm not a pedophile is not because I'm morally superior. It's because I've never been attracted to anyone who's not post-pubescent. Most likely, you're right. Most likely, you're right. The real problem becomes in trying to decipher what is causing some person to have these feelings. Like, is it an instance of them being molested themselves when they were younger, which is very, very common?

Is it just an error in the way the brain works? We used to think gayness was that. Some people have epilepsy. Yeah, but this is very different. This is like clear victimization. Gayness is two people choosing to be attracted to the same sex or being attracted to the same sex and choosing to be with each other, rather.

Yeah. This is different. This is a victim. I'm just talking about what you're attracted to, right? If you separate the actual act, obviously it's very, very different because you're abusing someone who isn't old enough to be able to consent. But the act of feeling like you're attracted erotically to a baby, right, regardless of whether you ever act on it, that is something that subjectively

must just be a horrible prison. I mean, imagine if you could never get your rocks off without torturing another person. Yeah. Wouldn't be a pretty place to be. It would be horrific. I just wonder. You know, I would like to agree with you, but when I think about it, I wonder what is the actual process that leads someone?

I mean, what is going on in their mind? I can't grasp it. I can't understand it. No, me neither. It's got to be multifactorial, right? It's got to be a bunch of shit. It's probably childhood abuse. It's probably a combination of...

Who knows? But that doesn't change the fact that they're presumably not capable of changing it. I don't know if that's the case, but it seems to be true. The recidivism rate amongst people who molest children is insanely high. Absolutely. We should give them the option of chemical castration as an alternative to jail and then just have them with no libidos. The problem becomes whether or not it's actually sexual or whether it's psychological. And if it's uniform, like some people might be sexually attracted to children in some way that you could cure with chemical castration whereas some of them might be

psychologically attracted to the dominance and to like it's what they say about rape right that rape isn't really about sex in a lot of the cases obviously in some cases it's about sex but in some cases it's not it's about power and dominance and how many people it's not a sexual thing what if they wound up because they couldn't get it up they wound up just doing things to kids in a fucked up way because they wanted to control them and dominate them well then they're just being dicks but i mean it might be the the origin of it all i mean there might be a bunch of different versions of this and that's yes for them that might be the origin of it all they might be just they want to torture of this. Yes, absolutely. For them, that might be the origin of it all.

They might be just, they want to torture people. Yep. I mean, there's sociopaths out there, there's psychopaths, there's people that are just fucked. Their brain is fucked. When you hear about a serial killer, I mean, is there a chemical castration for a serial killer to stop them from enjoying killing people? No. But I've spoken to experts about pedophilia who say, like, what you want to do, we're making a mistake at the moment by demonizing the condition rather than demonizing the act, right? So what you want to do is set up a scenario in which it's possible for a 15-year-old kid who realizes that he's attracted to infants to go to a psychiatrist and get help and talk about his options without feeling like he is a total monster just because he's having those feelings it's hard for us to think that way because if he acted on those

feelings he would be a monster but you want to find you want him to be able to avail himself of whatever kind of medical treatment is available rather than just going out and hiding in the shadows and doing yeah and committing monstrous acts i don't know how to get around that i don't need i don't think anybody does i mean think think think it's one of the reasons why this is such a compelling subject is because it's one of the most horrific things like there's there's some horrific like undeniably horrific things that people are capable of doing murder is one of them rape is one of them torture this is this is right up there it's right up there with torture and isis and beheadings

and shit. There was a guy on a talk show once that was talking about his, he's compelled to have sex with children. He's been sexually attracted to children all of his life, but he fights it off. And he doesn't do anything about it. He wanted people to understand it. And he was talking about it openly and I was like, first of all, how brave is this

guy that he's willing to go on television and do these interviews and talk about his compulsion, even though he said he's innocent of the actual act itself. He has this compulsion. And I think the spectrum of different ways that the mind functions is so complex and so confusing as to what's the origin of these behavior patterns. Is it because of abuse is because of a malfunction is it is is there a tumor like what the fuck is going on in someone's brain that leads them down these paths and i don't think that's been answered i don't know i mean what look at the take it back to bestiality and like having a giving a horse a blow job right like is there

anything necessarily unethical about giving a horse a blowjob? If the horse is pushing back, I say no. What if? Yeah, exactly. Right? Yeah, if you offer up your butt to a horse and he's just digging in there. Look, Jamie just shook his head. I'm telling you, though, like, what is morally, what is actually morally wrong with fucking

a horse if the horse is into it? Well, the horse fucks you, first of all. Yeah, okay. The horse is a top. The video of the guy getting fucked to death by the horse, though, is horrific. Of course. It's available. How was he not able to get out of the situation?

The horse had a pin. The video starts up. A buddy of mine sent this to me. I can't believe you watched it, Joe. I watched it a hundred times bro it's on my computer right now it's the screensaver

it's in there I just copy it I put it on little flash drives leave it around my house just in case somebody decides to delete it off the internet the guy

it's the video starts out and the guy is naked and he's bent over a bale of hay and then his friend I use the word air quotes

grabs the horse's penis and leads it up to his butt. And you're like, there is no fucking way. How? And then what? How does that even happen? Like, what kind of? What?

No, I don't want to see it. He's forcing my hand. He's opening his laptop, ladies and gentlemen. Forcing my hand. Here we go. Don't be scared, homie. Dot com. What do you mean, how?

I mean, the guy's just got a giant butt. It's really that simple. Yeah, well, no. I mean, I know that, like, you've got to lube up a little bit beforehand. You've got to make sure that you're available. If you're a pussy. But that's a lot of fingers you've got to put in before the horse can go.

Yeah, there's a lot going on there. It's not that simple. It's just, again, it's one of those things, like, what the fuck is it about a person's mind that allows that in there? Yeah. And how do you get from, I think this would be an amazing thing to try, to actually being there in the barn, like, straddled over the bale of hay? I don't know how you, I'd be too bashful, even if I wanted to do it.

Oh, that's adorable. I wouldn't have the guts. bashful even if i wanted to do it i'd be too that's adorable i wouldn't have the guts i think i mean i mean obviously i'm just thinking what the fuck do i know but don't pretend you're not a horse whacker i think there's there's just look there's a reason why some people love jazz music and there's some people that love basketball and some people like sailing some people hate the water and some people want to sunbathe all day. And some people want to only go out at night and we're fucking people vary a lot.

And in this gigantic, broad variants of human beings, every now and then put one pressure cooker spits out a dude likes to get fucked by horses. But what I mean, yeah, I totally take that. But what I mean is I'm amazed at the,

at the people who can translate their latent mental desires into actual real world experiences, whether that's climbing Mount Everest. I mean, there's all kinds of things I'd like to do. Joe's eyes are just getting real wide

as he looks at something on his laptop. I'm trying to find Mr. Hans. I found it, Mr. Hans. Like whether it's, I'd like to go scuba diving with sharks. I'd like to go, you know,

I'd like to go scuba diving under Antarctic ice. But I haven't done it because I'm too much of a pussy. And I'm too much of a pussy to get raped by a horse. That's what I'm saying, dude. It's not my thing. I don't get it. In the meantime, I'm going to plug my podcast, which people should go and check out. We the People Live.

We the People is all one word. And you can find it on the... We basically get three interesting people in a bar and we all talk about what's going on in the world. Jim Norton, Artie Lang. Beautiful. Folks like that. It's great. Well, New York's a good spot to do that. A lot of opinionated people. Yeah, it's fantastic.

We did one here as well with Greg Fitzsimmons and Fred Stoller and Zach Kreger. Funny people. And Joe was on it as well. If you want to check out episode 30, Joe Rogan. What bar is that? That particular one is Pine Box Rock Shop, which is where we used to do it. What a cool fucking place that is. Yeah, it was great.

That place looks awesome. And now we do it in Williamsburg. Oh, of course you do. How dare you. Do you have to wear a tie? We used to be in Bushwick. Do you have to roll up the cuffs of your pants? It wouldn't be a tie.

It'd be like a bow tie. Yes. Like done Sinatra style, untucked. Exactly. Around my neck. Have you found the video? I want to see some horse fucking. Here it is.

I don't. Do I want to see this? Am I going to be able to undo this? Am I going to be able to unsee this? Well, make sure that it doesn't get shown on screen, Jamie. Starring Mr. Hands. So here's the gentleman. Okay, there's the horse.

Oh, God, it's all dark. It looks like a night vision type thing. So the guy's lifting the horse's legs up. Oh, my God, the horse's front legs are on his shoulders. No, no, no, the horse's front legs are on the hay. Oh, I see. And this is the horse's dick, and it's in the dude's butt. Unbelievable.

And hey, holla, look at this. No, I don't want to be seeing this. How dare he? It's so huge. And the guy's having a hard time getting it in at first. Whoa, I don't want to be seeing this. How dare he? It's so huge. And the guy's having a hard time getting it in at first. Whoa! How about that? And it goes all the way in.

Is that when it just split his intestine apart? Come on, son. Yeah, he died. Listen to the sounds. Do you hear the sound? Yes. And now the dick comes out and it's got liquid all over it. He came.

Of course it came. Oh, is that what it was? Yeah. Can't look anymore. I wonder if I can go to jail for having that. Mate. It's totally illegal to video. I'm feeling a little violated right now.

We should. A guy died that way. I just saw a man die. Yeah, from a dick. 80 minutes ago, I pulled into the car park here on a beautiful Californian day. And if you'd told me then that in 80 minutes time, I would have just watched a man die from being anally raped by a horse. How about the sound he makes?

I wouldn't have believed you. Want to hear the sound again? No, I don't want to hear the sound again, Joe. But there's a sound. It's supposed to be a pleasant conversation. It is pleasant. What about- Nothing happened to us.

We should be happy. We should be happy we figured is pleasant. What about... Nothing happened to us. We should be happy. We should be happy we figured out a way to not have this happen to us. Yeah, it's pretty easy to not have that happen to you. There are so many things that have to happen in order for that to happen. Hold on a second. Hear that? That's the moment at which a horse's penis goes through his intestine

and into his head. That's called that's a wrap. That's a wrap for this life, folks. Take care. We'll see you in the next dimension. What a ridiculous fucking way to die. I mean, talk about the Darwin Awards.

There's one who... Maybe it was awesome. Maybe it's better than being in a nursing home and having some guy kick you. Isn't there anything in between that? Those are my only two options. I either get to be in a nursing home and have somebody kick me, or I get to get anally raped to death by a horse. That's it, ladies and gents.

Yeah, there's other options. But I mean, listen. My point of view is that this guy, in getting fucked to death by a horse, created this video. And this video has provided me with hundreds of hours of entertainment that I would have never gotten without this guy dying. Hundreds of hours? The video's only one minute long. You've watched it several hundred times? I've watched it so many times. I'm exaggerating, obviously.

Have you... But think about all the people throughout the world who will now Google Mr. Hands, find that video. I'm sure it's up there somewhere. Laugh their fucking ass off. Like, that guy probably gave all those people a burst of happiness like through his death like you

think about like what you've done in life and what having those experiences and showing them to other people what impact it has on them how many people have watched people like do those those bird suits the squirrel suits where they jump off buildings and shit and they fly around and you watch them

You get a thrill out of it Like whoa You watch those videos You get a thrill out of that right Yeah You watch a guy bungee jumping You get a thrill Yeah

You watch this And millions of people I'm sure I think Does that make you happy The same way that the Birdman videos Make you happy Yes

There's a difference Here a dude dies Getting anally raped by a horse But those bird guys die all the time. Yeah, I wouldn't want to see one where they die, though. Those guys hit trees and shit. Splatter. How about these motherfuckers?

See, that's what I'm talking about. This is a hoverboard right on the edge of the top of a skyscraper. These guys are spinning around. First of all, you're counting on these Chinese lithium ion batteries that were put together by slaves. Who knows if they're going to burst into flames. This guy's doing handstands! He's doing fucking handstands on top of a skyscraper! That's so fucking cool.

What is that, Dubai? Jesus, where is he? It looks like Dubai. I can't watch this. I can't watch this. No, here, perfect example. If you saw that, like, that gives you a thrill. But if one of those guys did that and then went flying off the building, like, what if

Yeah, then I wouldn't like that. What if Mr. Hands, that was a video where he lived? Because he got fucked a gang at times before he got fucked to death. I'd be happier. I'd be happier if he lived. But then I also wouldn't be happy about that. I'm not enjoying the entire Mr. Hands experience, Joe Rogan. But what if you met him and then he was annoying?

You'd be like, I wish that guy got fucked to death. He probably would be annoying. Did you hear that Oklahoma has had to change there i was just looking this up but when we were talking about pedophilia that uh there was a rape case in this is not something to laugh about but it is interesting about how we define rape where a 17 year old kid this was last month uh and a 16 year old he made her well here's what happened she was really drunk they'd been drinking in a park with some friends he gave her a ride home she woke up i think in the middle of the night completely deliriously drunk and her mother or

grandmother took her to the hospital because she was so drunk she woke up in hospital first thing she kind of really remembered was the doctors asking her what kind of sexual activity had happened because they'd found some of the 17-year-old's DNA around her mouth and on her legs. He said, yes, she wanted to give me a blowjob. And she gave me a blowjob when she was blackout drunk. So she charges him for rape. And the Oklahoma court found that it wasn't forcible rape. So now they're having to change Oklahoma's laws because the only thing that it would have been that would have like it basically has to be forcible. It's called forcible sodomy. Right.

And if and the judge was saying if a victim is so intoxicated that they are completely unconscious, then it's not actually forcible because there's nothing for you. Like they weren't forced to do it. They didn't even know that they were or weren't doing it. Jesus. Well, how do you define that then? Well, exactly. I don't know. But I mean, clearly you should not be going around putting your dick in unconscious 16 year olds mouths.

Clearly. mouths clearly but at the same time i can sort of understand that maybe it's not the same level of horribleness as like just right flat out just raping somebody there's also the problem with the girl possibly consenting at the time just being so fucked up she doesn't remember consenting right especially since she's 16 it's one of her first ever sexual experiences, her first ever drunk sexual experiences, we should assume. Yes. So it is entirely possible that this boy, who was only a few months older than her, didn't have the wherewithal to understand that she was compromised to the point where she couldn't consent. So they're both drunk. Yeah.

You know, that gets real weird. That gets real weird. And we don't know exactly what words were exchanged, what actually did happen, what the history of these two together was like. We don't know. I mean, if I had a son, I would have to say now just never, ever have any sexual relations with anybody who's drunk. That's a problem, though. Because some girls like getting fucked when they're drunk. Well, that's right.

Some guys like fucking their girlfriends when they're drunk. What do you mean some? Everybody. Whose early sexual experiences were done sober? Well, what if you're both drunk? There was a big thing that feminists were trying to push for a while, and they kind of abandoned it because they realized that it literally makes 90% of the population a rapist. And they were saying you shouldn't have sex even with your husband. If your husband is drunk and you're sober, don't have sex with him.

Yeah. And basically saying that all drunk sex is non-consensual sex which therefore makes it rape but then the argument becomes well how come you're responsible for driving your car when you're drunk you're responsible for that if you get caught you know you're not supposed to drive

your car when you're drunk it's not like oh I was too drunk I couldn't consent to drive my car no you're responsible you're a fucking adult you're responsible for violence you can't beat somebody up and say well I didn't know I was too drunk, I couldn't consent to drive my car. No, you're responsible. You're a fucking adult. You're responsible for violence. You can't beat somebody up and say, well, I didn't know. I was drunk. But when it comes to sexuality, for whatever reason, you're not responsible for your actions if you're intoxicated. Well, you are if you're the rapist, not just not the rapee.

No, women were saying, this was part of the argument, that if a man fucks you and he's drunk and you're sober, even though he's the proactive one, right? That he's being raped? He's being raped. Yes. That sex with a drunk person is rape because they cannot consent. Well, then you might as well, just as you say, make every single activity that you do while drunk. But the real problem becomes it becomes an attack on men because it's very, very rare that any woman ever gets in trouble for having sex with a man that's drunk but women and men have both been drunk and the men have been accused of being rapist whereas a woman wasn't that was the occidental university

thing yeah that's right college or university what is it college college i think yeah i think so too uh i mean that was the guy's suing it frustrates me so much because this is one of those areas where like islam or like political correctness or like Black Lives Matter, I feel like the moment you try to introduce nuance, you can be very quickly taken out of context and accused of being pro that thing. 100%. Because I'll say something like this and then supporters of mine on Twitter will be like, yeah, fuck her or let's rape. And I'll be like, no, that is not what I'm saying whatsoever. That's why it's horrific that they could take what you're doing right now and take it and make a little YouTube clip out of it, take that clip and put a title on it.

Yep. Josh Zepp thinks rape's okay. Exactly. That's right. I mean, it's really not outside the realm of possibility. For the record, I do think it's okay. In fact, I encourage everybody to go out and rape as many people as possible. I can't believe what I'm hearing.

That was a funny, funny. No place for jokes. No. No. No more. No more jokes. Even duh jokes. like a knife and forcing her against her will to have sex with you is a worse class of behavior than coming in an unconscious in your unconscious girlfriend's mouth right would that like is that

is it have we gotten to a stage where it's just not possible to even talk about that because we just have to keep mouthing the slogan of sexual violence is unacceptable all the time therefore there's no way of even distinguishing in the law between different levels. You know, someone who, a 17-year-old boyfriend who makes a mistake should go to jail for just the same length of time as a repeat serial predator who preys upon women. Well, we don't want to admit that there is any difference and that all these things are exactly the same and one of the reasons why is because what you just said just in introducing it as a possibility like there might be a variation there might be uh there there might be a grade of like this is a level 10 rape but this is a level 9

rape this is level 8 like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa as soon as you start getting into that it's almost like you're a rape apologist or you're a rape supporter. We want to be able to boil things into a fucking headline, a clickbait headline, and spit it out there. Here's my thoughts on rape. That's why the idea of everyone who's drunk is getting raped is so ridiculous. Because it's like we've all been with someone that we love and we got drunk and we wanted to have sex with them. We did. No one got raped.

Well, it's not only ridiculous. It's also demeaning to the victims of really terrible. Right. Yes. Right. I mean, it's also diminishes their their legitimate concern. It's also insanely sexist because it shows women as being these people that can't make good decisions while they're intoxicated. Whereas the men know exactly

what they're doing so they rape the woman so the men and the women even though they're both engaging in the exact same the exact same act they're both saying they want to do it the man is the he's the attacker whereas the woman is an innocent person who doesn't know any better because she's drunk there was a piece on the other i was reading on the plane in the sunday times uh yesterday about the word survivor how the word survivor has been has is getting used now it was really interesting piece it's in the new york times magazine i'm a flu survivor i am i had the flu and they were making the point that like when everything when every act of sexual violence gets gets labeled with i am a survivor of sexual violence even if that was just unwanted touching on the subway yeah then like what does it mean to be what do you mean you survived it

were you ever were you ever gonna die because someone like slapped you on the ass in the workplace not to not to say that it's okay to do that but again you're just compressing all of the actual real horrifying survival stories down to the level of, oh, someone looked at me funny and called me toots. Yeah, you can't call it survival. But you're a victim. Yeah. Yeah. But survivor sounds better.

Much better. You barely made it. Yeah. Survivor of bullying. I saw that. Someone wrote they were a survivor of high school bullying. Yeah. What the fuck happened to you?

Yeah. What was so bad? Did someone try to stab you? Did somebody beat you up to the point of you almost dying? Or did someone just annoy you all the time and make you feel bad? Is that what happened? There are only a few scenarios in which I think you can legitimately be called a survivor. A bear attack would be one of them.

Shark attack. Shark attack. Another one. Basically any kind of large carnivorous animal attacking you. Mountain lion. Yeah, mountain lion. We don't need large carnivorous animal attacking you. Mountain lion. Yeah, mountain lion. We don't need to go through them all. Coyote.

Tiger. Leopard. Monkey. Guy in India. A mayor got killed by monkeys. Really? Yeah. Did you hear that maybe all the African elephants are going to be dead in 20 years?

What? That's what I was just reading an article. There's places in Africa that have so many elephants, they have to kill them. Yeah, I know, but- Africa is enormous. This is one of the things that people- Google it, Jamie. Don't understand.

It might be in an area of Africa, but Africa itself is fucking huge. Yes, and there's a conference with all of the people who are- There we go. Time magazine, African elephants could be extinct within 20 years. Okay, if poaching, maybe. Because all of the- There's a conference of African leaders at the moment going on to figure out how they can tackle poaching.

Wow. But Africa's a continent. It's a fucking enormous- It's bigger than almost all the continents combined. I know, but if you keep killing them at a much larger rate than they procreate, then over time, you're going to wipe them all out. What's scary is people are still hunting them on top of the poaching. So there's these places that develop African hunting safaris for elephants.

So they raise elephants in these high fence operations just so people can go over there and hunt them. And that's one of the ways that they ensure that their populations stay high. It's very fucking twisted like trump's kids you've seen those photos of trump's sons holding up holding up jaguars and yeah you know that whole african hunting thing i i come i um tell people if you if you think it's bizarre with from a cursory glance you got to look at louis theroux's documentary about these african hunting we mentioned this before because I've been a Theroux fan since day one, but that episode

is just killer. That one's nuts. I love the end of it when the guy's going crazy and he's asking him all the questions. Africa is fucked. He's fucked. You don't understand. Yeah. This continent is fucked.

And when he was saying that, you really kind of get it. I hate that term poacher too. Poacher is a dark term because a lot of those people that are poaching are just fucking starving. Yeah. They're poor as fuck.

We have this idea that these are like these mercenaries that come over to steal ivory so they can make money off of it. There's a lot of people that are killing these animals that almost have no way out.

There's nothing there for them. They don't know any better. They're not educated. They're just starving. And someone says, hey, you give me that rhino horn, I'll give you 500 bucks. And they're like, holy shit, 500 bucks. And they'll kill as many rhinos as they can before they get killed.

It's so dark. I have a friend who went over there. He went over there to Africa. And he said he was on this hunting safari where they have these enormous places where they have these hunting camps where it's a 10-hour drive to the other side of the ranch. I mean, it's enormous, enormous territory. And while they were there, they encountered these quote-unquote poachers. And he said the people from the hunting cam just shoot at the poachers. They just shoot at them like they're coyotes.

Yeah. They shoot at these people like, I mean, they don't even give them a chance. They just shoot at them. Yeah. And they're allowed to. It's legal. And when they shoot someone, he asked him like, what do you do if you kill someone? And he's like, most of the time we let the hyenas sort it out.

Most of the time we let the hyenas short. I mean, just think about how fucking crazy life is in that part of the world. Yeah. That this guy is actually saying that. We're pretty fucking lucky. And I'm guessing that Trump's kids are probably not that poor that they need to be hunting that way they're over there doing those um big game safari yeah there's one there's a photo of one of them holding up an elephant's trunk just the just the dismembered trunk just the big old nose just hanging there because little shit ward trump couldn't i don't know pull that up i

don't want to see it yeah i do i do know that they've had to kill elephants in certain areas that have infiltrated these villages and started killing people. But, you know, the question is, like, how fucked with did they get before they started killing people? Yeah. Like, what's the actual reality of these elephants' lives? Well, also, I mean, as you say, like, what's the reality of the human beings' lives who are doing this as well? Yeah. What's the reality of the human beings' lives who are doing this as well? I was just in – when I was coming back from Australia, I spent a week in India. And in Mumbai, there's this company that does tours of the biggest slum in Asia, like the kind of slumdog millionaire slum. And they work in development there with some of the poorest people in the world.

There's an area – it's an area the size – it's called Dharavi. And it's in Mumbai. It's one of the biggest slums in the world, and it's an area the size of, half the size of Central Park, and it's got like two million people living in it. Jesus Christ. And they do development stuff there, and you can walk through, and these, I mean, you feel a little bit weird,

like going through this place, like it's almost like disaster porn or something. There are like huge canals which just smell it's just shit and like dead dogs and pieces and just just i mean but you know what people are getting on with life they're laughing there are soccer balls they're playing with like you know kids are scrounging around in the dust and the dirt and the grime. People are fucking resilient in amazing ways. Well, if they weren't, we wouldn't be here. Yeah. Because this 2016 shit where you go to the supermarket and you buy a chicken breast.

Oh, we're so out of touch. Yeah. We're so out of touch. The most recent of recent. I mean, it's one of the more amazing things about how upset people are about how life is today. Like, God damn it. It's the easiest it's ever been ever. Yeah, I know. This is the greatest time in the one of the more amazing things about how upset people are about how life is today. Like, God damn it. It's the easiest it's ever been ever. Yeah, I know.

This is the greatest time in the history of the world. Yeah. And everyone's, the sky's falling. When we don't, and as our lives get better and better, we don't, we fail to accurately calibrate like any benchmark. Like you always, it's like there was a study that came out that 47% of Americans could not come up with $400 if they needed to, if they suddenly got an unexpected bill, right? Almost half of Americans, in other words, are right on the brink of the poverty line. But in terms of just being able to come up with cash. But how do we get ourselves into that scenario?

We fail to recognize how prosperous we are. I mean, most of the people who are listening to this podcast are in the top 5% of income earners globally. More than that. And a lot of them will be in the top 1%. You know, the top 1% is only 34 grand a year. Of global incomes, is it? Yeah. Okay.

So there you go. And even within the United States, I mean, the top 5% is surprisingly low. It's like 50 grand or something, right? I think it's more than that. 60? I thought it was over 100. 70? Either way.

100? Either way, we are incredibly blessed and amazingly fortunate. And it's so hard to snap ourselves out of our complacency and realize, fuck, things actually are surprisingly convenient and easy for us. Yeah, I mean, overall, but if you're one of those people that can't come up with that 400 bucks and the $400 bill comes, it seems daunting. Yes, and I'm not blaming people for it. I've had times in my life where I've been below, well, well underwater. Sure, we all have, but I think that's also probably one of the reasons

why you became ambitious and why you worked hard and why you're in a position right now where you don't have to worry about that because you worked your way through it. You figured your way through adversity. You know, this is an interesting subject because I had Eddie Wong in really recently and he brought up something that I thought was preposterous.

He brought up the idea of, what do they call it, basic income? Yeah. Where you give people $35,000 a year to live. And I was like, get the fuck out of here. But then I started looking into it. And when I started looking into it, one of the things that I was intrigued by was like, okay, how much of crime and how much of people's aberrant behavior could be, you could write it off to them being desperate and needy and poor and feeling hopeless. And how much of that crime would not take place if they got $35,000 a year.

And if these are people that are just going to fuck off anyway, but this way they're going to fuck off, but they won't be committing crime because they're going to have a steady income for the rest of their life. Is that feasible? Like how much money is there out there? Could you give everybody in America $35,000 a year up to a certain number, right? I mean, once you hit a cutoff, like you hit like, I would say like quarter million dollars a year, you don't get the 35 grand anymore. You got plenty of money, dude.

But here's the thing. The great utility of a basic income is that you don't have to fill out forms and prove that you deserve it, that everybody gets it. So it's super, super simple. Where's it coming from? Well, you can't start with $35,000 a year. How much? I've heard proposals. Look, Alaska has this already. They just call it an oil revenue thing, right? Everyone in Alaska gets a check from the government, which is a cut of Alaska's oil revenue.

They basically get a universal basic income. It's not nearly enough to live on. It might be $1,000 a year or something. I'll be corrected on this. But there are all kinds of experiments. I had Felix Salmon on my podcast, who's over at Slate. I don't know if you know him. He's a money, a very interesting money guy.

He has a podcast called the Slate Money Podcast. And he's a big advocate of this idea. And there's a place. I want to talk to him then. Yeah, you should. You should get him on. He's great. He's based out of New York, but he's good. What's his name again? Felix Salmon, like the fish. I'll send you his, I'll text you his details after the show. I'm making a note to myself right now. And he was basically saying there's a place in, like, there's a jurisdiction in, I think, Finland or Sweden, which is actually trying this out,

just to test the proposition of, like, how much less will people actually work if everyone gets a basic income? How much of a deterrent will it be from bothering to get a job? How much will it cost? Well, $35,000 a year would be a lot of money well thirty five thousand times three hundred million here's the thing you would start you there are a lot of savings right so the weird thing about this idea is that libertarians like it as well as progressives because for libertarians this is a way of getting rid of social security, getting rid of Medicare, getting rid of food stamps,

getting rid of all of these different programs and streamlining everything. I mean, think of how hard it is to do your taxes and to fill in the forms and to figure out what you're supposed to get. This would just be a check from the government. Everybody gets it. No questions asked.

You go out and you buy what you need to buy. Now, with healthcare as expensive as it is in the United States, that's not going to work for old people. They're not going to be able to pay for healthcare and health insurance and also social security and also survive on $35,000 a year. But just thinking in terms of the budget, if you got rid of those massive line items in the budget, Medicare and social security and so on, then you would be able to start to think about affording things like that. So you might start with just $10,000 a year for everybody and work your way up from there and just test it. I think one of the states should start to do it on a more aggressive level, just like

Colorado is going to be playing around with universal health care at the November election. Because of weed, baby. Yo. It's all that weed money. Come on, son. I love it. I think it's an interesting idea. Imagine if Colorado decided to do that,

decided to give every state resident $35,000 a year. The problem would be everybody moved to Colorado. Well, everybody moved there, right? Yeah. But I think this is a possible solution to the rise of robots. That's not as crazy as it sounds. It sounds so ridiculous, though, doesn't it? Sounds like I've just been smoking weed the entire show.

Meanwhile, you're the sober one. I think that there are going to be fewer and fewer jobs for individual human beings as robots get better and better at making shit. Yeah, I think everybody believes that. And also that they're going to be cheaper and cheaper to get robots. Yeah. And so what happens when you've got Silicon Valley and Hollywood pumping out huge amounts of stuff, which give us a massive GDP, a larger GDP, where growth is still happening, but it takes fewer and fewer people?

I mean, Uber is a transportation company that doesn't employ anybody. Facebook doesn't employ very many people. But Uber is being challenged on that. That gets really problematic when you deal with the actual labor laws and things like that. But that's one particular scenario. I think one thing that's happening that's interesting is that people are gravitating more towards craftsmanship and crafts, and people are gravitating towards handmade things and they're gravitating towards things that actually have like if somebody like if i go to a store and

i buy a knife okay i buy a kitchen knife um you know it's nice it cuts my vegetables but if i know a guy who's a blacksmith and he actually makes a knife and he and he does all this craftsmanship and puts together the handle and that to me is like there's a feeling that you get from this object when you're using it like this is someone's craftsmanship this is someone's creation someone learned a trade they learned the art form of making a functional piece of kitchenware and and I'm using it here. Yeah, but speaking of the 47% of people who can't come up with $400, I mean, you can afford to care about such things, but the majority of people are just going to buy a pack of steak knives for $14.99 at Walmart, right? That's true, but that's also the case with everything, with clothes and with all sorts of different things.

But for the person themselves, someone who learns a trade and someone who learns a craft, someone who learns how to make furniture i hope we go more that way and become less of a disposable just china fueled like commodity consuming country and become i think we are in some ways stuff in some ways i think we are for people who can afford it yeah i think it's becoming for the people that are looking for something to do like that has meaning in their life there's like extreme meaning in hand-produced things like when you buy something from someone like a piece of office furniture and you know this guy made it like someone made my friend eric made this really table yeah nice table we we hired him to do it yeah not only that look at the fucking welding and all the different shit to it i mean this guy did an awesome job in in creating this and there's there's like something to someone making something

where you're always going to remember where it came from yeah that's even if it's a cutting board somebody puts together a nice hardwood cutting board you know like you're like oh this is a guy made this. then you just have to figure out how to allocate, how to tax that pie. Maybe that means that you have to have super huge taxes on Silicon Valley in some way in order to fund the universal basic income. But if there aren't enough people being employed to fund what the government needs to do on the basis of a conventional income tax, but there's more stuff being produced going around, there's more wealth, you should still be able to extract that wealth somehow.

And maybe people can, more people can, if everyone got a universal basic income, people can become a poet or an artisanal knife maker or a table maker and they don't need to necessarily be able to sustain their living doing that. There are more opportunities for creative output. What's interesting to me is that it might relax people. I think- Well, certainly. Imagine not having to worry about where the next meal comes from. Well, that's where it started ringing true to me.

I was making fun of Eddie talking about it, but then I thought about it for quite a while afterwards. And then I started reading some things on it that sort of reinforced these new ideas that I was starting to play around with. And one of the things that I was thinking is how much of what people do that's fucked up, they're doing out of desperation or out of frustration and how much could that be eliminated and how much would that change society? And are ambitious people just, I mean, you're not talking about anything where you could fucking go balling on 35 grand a year or 12 grand a year, whatever you, whatever you give them, $12,000 a year, let's say that.

You're barely going to live off that. But you have enough money for food. You have enough money for food. Hopefully, you got enough money for rent. If you get some part-time jobs here or there, hopefully, you can survive. But you're less desperate and more dependent upon society. You're more dependent upon the rules of society. Well, I mean, to see what countries look like when that sort of thing happens,

even though it's not a perfect analogy, just look at the countries of Northern Europe, or even you were talking about Melbourne, you know, a country like Australia, where it's by no means perfect. There are still poor people, but gee, the levels of poverty are a lot less than they are here. And the number of people in grinding abject absolute poverty is almost non-existent in comparison to the way that you see it here in the States, because we have social safety nets that are just much more robust. But you only have 20 million people.

But yeah, but so what? I never buy that argument. Everything is scalable, Joe. I mean, the fact that we- Yeah, because we only have 20 million people, but we also have a proportionately fewer number of taxpayers. You have tons more people and tons more taxpayers. Like, look at Germany.

Germany's a big country. They've got 80 million people, and they manage to have very, very few people, basically no people, in abject poverty. That might be a bad example, because they're a mess right now. Like, you know what Germany's a mess with the immigration issue.

Well, immigration is separate, but their economy's not a mess. Yeah, but they're socially a mess. Yeah, well, I mean, that's a mess with the immigration issue. Well, immigration is separate, but their economy is not a mess. Yeah, but they're socially a mess. Yeah, well, I mean, that's because of Syria. Well, yeah, well, that whole thing is so bizarre, where the mayor of Munich was telling girls to keep to themselves and not look at anybody. It's crazy.

I'm not advocating that America should invite 10 million unscreened, undocumented Syrians. That whole thing is fucking insane. But you could certainly imagine a system in which it was a lot easier Un-screened. Undocumented. Syrians. That whole thing is fucking insane. But you could certainly imagine a system in which it was a lot easier for people to, where you just didn't have entrenched levels of grinding poverty. I just wonder what the cost would be. And what, is there a mathematical equation that could be worked out where that makes sense?

I wonder. You know, I'm not smart enough. Let's do the math. Ask Felix. Felix will know. Who's Felix? Felix Salmon, the English guy who does... I thought it was like Siri. I'm like, what are you, using a Windows phone, you ask Felix? It sounds like that. It sounds like Ask Jeeves or something. Also, Felix has a really posh English accent, so he sounds like the kind of person who you would expect to voice one

of those things. Do you remember Ask Jeeves? Everybody used to go to that before Google was around. I know. Go right to Ask Jeeves. I mean, I never really used it. Maybe I'm too young or something. I never used it either. What did you do? You typed in AskJeeves.com?

I don't remember. Did you have to phrase things as a question? Sounds stupid now, doesn't it? I don't remember. I'm sure I asked Jeeves a few things. I just don't remember what they were. Now that I'm thinking about it. Jeeves, show me boobs. I don't think'm sure i asked jeeves a few things i just don't remember what they were now that i'm thinking about it jeeves show me boobs i'll take that easy show me a guy getting raped by a horse what's this ask.com now oh you just ask a question and it would tell you the answer where's the tallest waterfall okay ask this how much would it cost to give all americans i love saying the things that are suggested thousand dollars a year

okay bam ask.com is not going to help you with that hey you don't know that it would cost uh three trillion to give everyone 10 10 000 a year so multiply that times the extra 2.5 and it's like jesus christ god damn that. Yeah, that makes sense. More than $3 trillion to give him $10,000,000. Okay, so it would be $9 trillion plus to give everybody $30,000,000. But you wouldn't give everybody. Because everybody who makes over a certain amount should have to fucking work it out. But people are so gross, they would just stay under $250,000.

I'll make $249,999. Give me my fucking money. You know, because if you went over $1, you would have to- No, but if you were going to start means testing it, then it'd have to be a sliding scale so that you didn't encounter that problem, right? So if you hit $250, then you only get $30. If you hit $260, you only get $25. But then it becomes complicated complicated and that negates a

lot of the benefit. What you're talking about, what you really want is just a way for desperately poor people to not be desperately poor. Yeah. And there are simpler ways than giving everybody a universal basic income. There are simpler ways, but I think the real important thing is figuring out a way to stop children from growing up in desperation. Yeah.

To stop children from growing up in desperation yeah to stop children from growing up in an environment like i had this guy on michael wood i gotta get back to him this week because we're working on a new date but he was a baltimore police officer and he talked in great detail about real institutional racism in baltimore where they you know they had Racism in Baltimore where they you know they had literally areas where you couldn't sell black people homes and this had been established like in the 1960s and because of that those areas are still fucked those areas like they're still to this day he found something from the 1970s the police officers in his district did, where it was like a mandate, like what they were supposed to do and where the crime was. And he's like, it was exactly the same places, exactly the same crimes as they were dealing with in the 2000s. He's like, how futile and fucking crazy is this?

You're dealing with this pattern that never gets fixed, never gets corrected. And just, they just, cops keep arresting the same people in the same areas for the same problems, and it's like, whoa. You know, they've done studies about what the most effective way to help poor people is, because oftentimes people on the left will be in favor of food stamps or, like, you know, better public schools and so on. All of those things are great.

But a lot of recent research suggests that just giving people money is more effective than trying to figure out all of these tweaks. Because we don't like giving poor people money because we think, well, they're just going to spend it on drugs or they're going to spend it on booze or something like that. You can't buy cigarettes or food stamps. Yeah, but it turns out and this applies whether you're talking about desperately

poor people in Africa or desperately poor people in downtown Baltimore. If you just give them money, most people use it to good ends. The thing they really want the most is to eat and be able to pay their bills and to get out of the situation they're in. A minority of people will blow it on booze and cigarettes, but they are a small minority. People know what their needs are better than we know what their needs are.

There's this paternalistic idea that we always have, like we have to figure out how to get people out of poverty. People know how to get themselves out of poverty if they just had the resources to do so. So just give them a bit of money. Yeah, and it's also this absolute realization that this is not a level playing field. And that someone born in the slums of Inglewood is not the same as someone who's born in Beverly Hills. It's so fucking crazy about libertarians when they go on about how everyone should be free. Yeah, of course everyone should be free. I am as libertarian as you can get, but within the understanding that it's crazy to say that the person who's born in Beverly Hills to a white middle class, upper class family is only as free as the baby born in the slums of Baltimore.

This is crazy. Of course, you should use the, I think, the power of the state to be able to level the playing field a little bit, just to skim a little bit off the Beverly Hills family and give a little bit to the Baltimore family. I don't see what's so tyrannical about that. Well, yeah, because you're not coming from an even start point, right? So, and there's also this notion that as a country, we're only as strong as the weakest link, right? So, if we created a system where we had less people in desperation, less people in despair, less losers, we would be more winners.

Yeah. We would get our shit together. We would produce more. We would be more winners we would get our shit together we would we would produce more we would be more effective i wonder i mean just wonder what the actual numbers are because like how much money is being spent every year on things that we don't need how much how much money from our taxes goes to bureaucracy and bullshit and it's really distorted representative government that most people don't agree with how much of that how much of it is just fucking cronyism and handing money back and forth between each other i'll tell you what we don't spend a lot of money on we don't spend a lot of money on bureaucracy and waste in like people people who want to cut government spending will

often say like you know first thing i'm going to do when i get into when i get to congress is i'm going to not repaint you know my congressional office or something or i'm going, you know, the first thing I'm going to do when I get to Congress is I'm going to not repaint, you know, my congressional office or something, or I'm going to throw out the fancy stuff and I'm going to get an old couch. Like, this is not what we're spending our money on. Right. What we're spending our money on is the military and Medicare and Social Security, basically. So rein in health care, and stop, and cut the military, and that's where the big

meat is. Yeah, you say cut the military, but then what happens, son? Let me tell you something, freedom ain't free. They're gonna come over here and take our jobs and kick our women into the curb or something. I've been having a Twitter argument with a person who's been saying that the reason why America's roads are so bad is because we spend too much on foreign aid.

That's me, too. I'm sorry. I'm not trolling you. Fuck, Wendy. I don't even believe it. I just say it because I know you get excited. Get excited and riled up. Britain spends three or four times more per capita on foreign aid. Sweden spends six times more per capita. Have you seen the roads in Sweden?

They're really quite nice. Are they? Better than the fucking... Yeah. Well, we have more roads, don't we? It's bigger. Yeah, of course. But again, you also have more people.

You have more taxpayers to pay for them. Just looking at overall numbers, we spend more money because we have more roads yeah and you spend more money on foreign aid as well but there are more of you to share it i'm gonna troll you on twitter tonight i'm gonna get on i'm gonna be an egg with an opinion here's something here's a here's a reform which you could support which would really help you figure out where you where the money goes okay when you get your tax bill at the end of the year, your tax statement from the IRS, they could, as they do in Australia and a bunch of other countries, have a little bar graph, a colorful little graph with lines showing how much you've spent on

everything. So in Australia, if you paid $18,000 in tax that year, then there'll be a little purple line on the graph which says, you know, you spent $4,782.16 on Medicare, spent this much on security, spent this much on foreign aid, and then you can actually see it there. That's great. There's a proposal in front of Congress, which some Democrats are pushing, to bring this in here and also to streamline the way that you do your taxes. Because in a lot of other countries, apart from the States, you don't have to go through the rigmarole of filling out all of your taxes. The government, because when you do a job and you have to supply the IRS with a 1099 or a W-2 at the end of the year, remember that the person who gave you the 1099 or the W-2 also sent a copy to the IRS.

The IRS already has it. They could just fill it out themselves. Instead, they make you do it. And it's difficult and cumbersome. But in a lot of other countries like the UK and Australia, you have the option of just signing off on it and saying, yeah, okay, this looks good. You can just do my taxes for me. And the proposals to make to simplify doing your taxes are being pushed by Democrats. And I find it wildly ironic that the people who oppose these policies are Republicans and Grover Norquist, the anti-tax crusader, who you would think would want to make it easier, but it's in their interest to make taxes as difficult to do and as difficult to understand as possible, because they want you to continue hating taxes as much as possible.

Also, the military industrial complex that the Republicans essentially work for don't want you to continue hating taxes as much as possible. Also, the military industrial complex that the Republicans essentially work for don't want you to know how much we spend on the Pentagon. So they oppose this bar graph idea because they know that the biggest line item would be this massive thing. And you'd be like, do we really need to be spending that much on the military? Or is this really a jobs program where we're building nuclear submarines that the Pentagon doesn't want in important districts in fucking Delaware just so that we can keep some jobs there in a factory that's producing munitions that it no longer needs to be.

Well, I think one of the good things about someone proposing something like that is you get to look at who's opposing it. And when someone's proposing something that makes sense, unless there's some sort of exorbitant fee that's involved in giving people a detailed rundown of where their money goes then you would say well someone's against transparency and if you're against transparency you're against freedom you fuck you're against america yeah play the music jamie amanda free home of the brave god damn it i want to know where my fucking taxes go yes if you're anti-tax then you should be pro-transparency and tax, right? I found out my taxes all went to welfare cigarettes.

That's where they didn't go. And booze. And booze. And pills for the kids. Yeah. Yeah, man. We should spend more on. I just wonder what the number would be.

Like, what would- To do the universal basic income? Yeah. I wonder what the number would be and what would be- Just try to- You're getting queued up. I'll what the number would be and what would be... Did you just try to... I'll tell you if I got a rant coming on. I'll tell you if I got a rant coming on, Jamie. Right now, I'm not feeling that American.

Even better when I do a rant in my Australian accent and you play the US national anthem behind it. It sounds really weird. It's a cognitive dissonance. Mate, play it, Jamie. Play the anthem, will you? Let's just get a little bit of patriotism going here. Mate, I want to tell you a thing or two about the United States.

But talk in your real accent. Don't overdo it. You can't fake it. All right. Okay. What, Jamie? This country, a nation of brave, courageous men and women who fought for years, nay centuries. Okay, hold on.

Stop. What about non-binary sexual people? Oh, fuck. They're not men or women. You're being exclusive. You're being a bit transphobic, aren't I? Yes, you're very transphobic. You know, I said on my podcast the other day that people who vote for Hillary because she's

a woman are only voting for her because she's got a vagina, and someone on Twitter said that that was transphobic because there are women who don't have vaginas. Yeah, I disagree. Yeah, there's an X and a Y chromosome. There's a lot of genetics. You might identify with being a woman. If you've got a dick, though, we have a real problem. Look, I'm happy to call them women if they want to be called women.

I really don't have a problem with it. But don't call me transphobic. It's not transphobic for me to make a generalization that most women have vaginas. I saw an opening to call you transphobic and I jumped on it because it's there. So I sank your battleship. I got D12.

I saw it. They're playing fucking games. They're playing games. You don't have to have a vagina to be a woman. Fuck you. How about fuck you? Jesus Christ. What do you think about this North Carolina law, though?

This is different. The bathroom thing. I'm so conflicted about this because I also got into trouble on my podcast for though about this is this is different the bathroom thing i'm so conflicted about this because i also got into trouble on my podcast was talking about this so i think it's obviously a silly beat up and i think that trans people have been and will continue to use bathrooms uh and we shouldn't worry about it and i don't think that people should be passing laws against it but i also think it's disingenuous of pro-trans people, and I regard myself as broadly pro-trans,

just in the same sense that I'm broadly pro, hey, whatever floats your boat, just live the life that you want to live, whoever you are. As do I. I do think it's disingenuous when they start saying that people who have the outward appearance of the gender that's on their birth certificate should be able to use the opposite restroom

and that nobody should have a problem with that because they declare themselves to be trans. So I'm talking, for example, about there was, I saw a Facebook argument about this, where a friend of a friend of mine on Facebook is a trans woman who was assigned male at birth and has no intention of transitioning at all. Right? So she has a beard. She's a fat guy with a beard who plays guitar. And that's what all of her photos are. And she doesn't want to have her dick cut off. And she doesn't want to grow breasts and she doesn't want to lose her beard. And she's arguing that it's transphobic to say that she shouldn't be able to use the women's restroom and other people were saying you can understand how like a parent might be concerned if their daughter went into the girl's restroom and then what appears to be a large

bearded fat man walks in after her you know that is not necessarily transphobic and then all of a sudden she's like how dare you say that? There has not been a single instance of a trans person abusing. This is just like the gay fear back in the 1970s. You're claiming that trans people are more likely to be pedophiles. Blah, blah, blah. That should have the music. No.

That was a good rant. No, we're not saying that. We're just saying, how do you expect us to know the difference Between you, a trans woman who looks like a man And just a man Well you're being reasonable and that's the problem This is not a reasonable discussion And here's what's really ironic

What we really should be concerned with is not the trans people What we should really be concerned with Is heterosexual people Pretending to be trans people Heterosexual people who are in fact sexual predators Who all they have to do But they don't even have to pretending to be trans people. Heterosexual people who are, in fact, sexual predators. Who all they have to do to be around... But they don't even have to pretend to be trans. I mean, all they would do...

Oh, I see what you mean. All they would have to do is to wear a dress and go to the woman's room and say they're trans. And they could do whatever the fuck they want once they're in there. That's the real issue. It's not the actual trans people. That's right. It's people that are using this very ambiguous law. I mean, this is a very ambiguous distinction.

If someone identifies with the opposite sex without having any outward appearance of being that opposite sex, all a guy would have to do is say, I'm trans and you can go into a female restroom. Most likely it's not going to happen. But you have to recognize it's a

possibility. But again, it comes back to our conversation about rape or about islam or about about like black lives matter or whatever this is a new we're trying to have a nuanced conversation and it's impossible to have because all you're allowed to be is either pro-trans or you're a religious evangelical bigot right yes you're not allowed there's no there's no middle ground we just have to hunker down joe into our little little trenches and have a war of attrition. Where I'm on one side and you're on the other side. And the last man fucking stands. It's like World War I.

We're doing Passchendaele all over again. Just firing at each other on Twitter. You're not allowed to have a nuanced perspective. Don't you think this is a direct result of the Bush administration like we were talking about? I really do think that's what it is. I think everybody was so scared and conservatism was at such a high point that the rebound from that, the rebound from all the anti-gay hysteria, I mean, that administration was ripe with homophobia, ripe with all sorts of different types of discrimination.

It was a fucking weird time. I think that absolves the left too much. And I think it also fails to recognize the changes that social media have wrought. I don't think this would be as bad were it not for- I think it's all together. Yeah, 24-hour media, social media. Like, Stephen Fry quit Twitter in February. He was one of the first adopters, and he was like, it used to be this lake in the forest where you could run and jump and play, and now it's a fetid swamp where there aren't pissing in the pool.

I'm a Stephen Fry fan, but I gotta say, I think he went out like a bitch. He should've hung in there? Fuck yeah! Come on, that small group of people can chase you out of one of the most fucking easily used forms of free expression the world has ever known? Like, all it takes is him making a joke about a dress, and people shitting on him for making a joke, but what, what, what, why would you even care about the opinion of people who get upset at you for making fun of a dress in his blog where he was talking about quitting twitter he did begin by saying like

this is not a big deal i don't know if this is forever i'm not doing this as a stand i just feel so much more liberated not going there because you're right he is at the pinnacle of his industry he was hosting the bloody baftas i mean that's like hosting the academy awards in the uk so he should be big enough to allow to have people sniping at him if you're hosting the academy awards he's a sniper yeah that's what he does his whole thing is i can understand his whole thing is mocking people who say they're offended so he's getting offended by people mocking him for being offended. I'm not sure he's offended. I think he just doesn't want to play that game. Okay. What is that word then? What word are we looking for? Upset?

Bored? No. Upset. Just bored and exhausted. I don't believe you write a whole blog because you're bored. I think you write a blog because you're upset. He was angry. He was visibly angry, or at least appeared to be, through his tweets and his reactions to people being upset with him about making fun of that dress. I mean, I just think it's hard sometimes. Who knows what was going on in his life when that was going on?

He made that decision as well. It could have been like a down point in his life emotionally. I think it might be an up point because I think he just got married or he's getting married. He's dating this guy who's like 50 years younger than him or something, so he's getting a lot of ass. A lot of dick. And he's probably having a great time. He's like, I don't need this shit anymore. They can go and fuck off.

I don't have time for 140 characters. Bitch. Exactly. But then why does he have time to write about it then? Why not just step away? It's like when someone says... Well, people would notice it and then they'd be like, oh, where's steven fry why isn't he responding to things it's easier to say hey here i am i'm going i won't be here for a while yeah but why why even if you can't if you don't care and you're gonna leave why even make an announcement it's like if someone said to you you know hey man i just thought the jokes you made about rape and the jo Rogan podcast were totally uncalled for. Unfollowed.

Unfollowed? Do the unfollowed dance. I'm unfollowing. I got him. You see what I wrote? I'm pretty sure I read it. I wish the audio podcast listeners could see the Joe Rogan dance that just happened. Unfollowed. Kind of like halfway between a Down syndrome child and a rooster.

I unfollowed you. I win. Oh, dear. This is like death thing. Put that behind the national anthem. But it's that thing that they do. They just want to get your... And how many people are we talking about?

I mean, one or two or three or even a hundred people got mad at him? No, no, no. I mean, I take your point. Sure. Maybe it's a pussy move, but it's his life. He doesn't have to be on Twitter if he doesn't want to be on Twitter. But the problem is he's so great. I know.

It upsets me that he would have that reaction. By the way, I've read the things that people wrote to him. It wasn't really that big of a deal. He made fun of a woman's dress and said it looked like a garbage bag. And it's one of his friends. Yeah. It's one of his friends. It's funny.

Yeah. It's kind of funny. But of course people are going to react. They're barking. Here's what of funny. But of course people are going to react. They're barking. Here's what he wrote. He said, let us grieve what Twitter has become, a stalking ground for the sanctimoniously self-righteous who love to second guess, to leap to conclusions and be offended. Worse, to be offended on behalf of others they don't even know. And then he says, it doesn't matter whether they're defending women, men, transgender people, Muslims, humanists.

The ghastliness is absolutely the same. Okay, what's a pram? What we call a stroller. Oh, out of a pram as I go. I thought it was like a boat. A pram? That's what we in the British call a stroller. Jamie, Google the word pram.

Why did I think that pram was a type of boat? I don't know. Pram, you've got a bunch of... What the fuck? How to reset your computer's pram. Oh, look at that. It was a type of boat i don't know pram you got a bunch of uh what the fuck how to reset your computer's plan it's a stroller i just told you that three times joe trust me how do you not trust me but i wanted him to google boat google pram boat because why don't i think oh yeah it says boat that's one yeah it is a boat oh it's type of boat is it a is it a uh is it a brand of boat yeah it's okay pram boat? Yeah, it's a pram. Oh, here we go.

Okay, pram boat. A small utility dinghy with a transom bow rather than a pointed bow. Don't make fun of me, bro. I got knowledge, deep knowledge about shitty boats. Small utility dinghies. That's what I, I knew a dog. Like, why is he throwing his ideas out of a small utility dinghy? But what he said was eloquent.

I mean, he's dead on about the sanctimonious. He's dead on about recreational outrage. And also, he lives in a country, remember, where you can actually be prosecuted for saying things that people find offensive. Like in the UK, did you hear about the Mealy Mouth tweet? This guy, so after the Brussels attack, there was a guy, just a regular dude, who tweeted, I confronted a Muslim woman yesterday.

I asked her to explain Brussels. She said, nothing to do with me. A mealy-mouthed reply. That caused a media storm because there were lots of funny reactions to that where people were like, I met an Irish person and asked him to explain the IRA. He said, nothing to do with me. A mealy-mouthed reply.

Or I asked a dog why I was bitten by a dog when I was four. He said, woof, mealy-mouthed reply. But this guy was arrested. He was arrested on suspicion of inciting racial hatred. Wow. And in the UK, that's what can happen like in the uk simply saying that like islam is a problem and or islam is stupid can get you potentially arrested wow under blasphemy laws look at this he subsequently expressed concerns

for his health that was taken to a nearby hospital he's probably having a fucking heart attack doyle's tweet which has since been deleted, read, I confronted a Muslim. Okay. Mealy mouth reply. Wow, that is crazy. He did then tweet a few offensive things. He was like, in response to people getting angry with him,

he was like, oh, so I offended a towel head? Big deal. So, you know, he's not maybe the nicest guy in the world, but when you come, when you live in a country, yeah, when you live in a country with a First Amendment, it's pretty fucking crazy that a person can say something can tweet something like that and then get arrested so canada's got some issues too canada has issues with comedians yep there was uh one comedian um in montreal that made a joke about um some kid that was dying

and uh he the kid survived and all these people had uh donated money apparently so he made some joke about you know how the fuck is this kid still alive something along those lines and um he's just trying to be funny and he's been fighting it in court and you know they're trying to put him in jail and there's the other kid in in Vancouver, the guy who was on stage, and some women were heckling. And he said something about them being ugly lesbians and some mean shit to them. He got sued, lost. I mean, they're heckling at a comedy club. And, you know, what he said, whether it was skillful or not, whether it was, I mean, it's just not like someone just yelling something to someone out randomly.

I mean, it's not like someone just yelling something to someone out randomly. This is someone trying to handle a heckler ad-libbing in a comedy club with a bunch of drunk people and these hecklers who had been fucking up the show up until the time he got there. So he's trying to wreck them and make them feel bad. They sued him and won. Unbelievable. Slurs forced comic to pay $15,000 for a tirade of ugly words against lesbian patron after appeals falls flat. What? He has to pay $15,000 for a comedy show because he insulted somebody?

Yeah. Yeah. I've got to tell you, I haven't seen anything that bad in Australia, but it is also bad in Australia in terms of, like, It is also bad in Australia in terms of, like, what frustrates me the most is that people from certain ethnic groups or religions are claiming that you can blaspheme. What do you call it when you defame? Right, you can defame a religion or an ethnicity. Hold on, look at that, Jamie. Scientists say they've developed a second skin you can wear for more than a day to look younger.

What? What the fuck? Dude, you're going to go out with some old lady or old man, whatever, and you're going to think, I found the perfect guy. Wow. He's got beautiful skin. He smells like an old guy, but I don't know. The idea sounds like fantasy, an invisible film that can be painted on your skin and give it the elasticity of youth.

Bags under the eyes vanish in seconds. Wrinkles disappear. And this is from the National Post, which is an actual Canadian publication. This isn't bullshit. 170 people have tried it. Under eye bags. No reported irritation or reactions. Whoa.

Under eye bags are just a start. You can soak the film with sunscreen and protect yourself without worrying about sweat or water washing it away. The researchers say they expect it can be used to treat eczema, psoriasis, and other skin conditions by covering dry, itchy patches with a film that moisturizes and soothes. Whoa. I'm going to get me some of that. But you know, that's one of those weird things where I would have never even thought that someone would come up with this idea.

It's clever though, right? It's amazing. They developed a two-step process. A polymer, a clear liquid is applied. Its chains are not very strong though, so the next step is applying a product that links them together. By modifying

the chemistry of the chains, the researchers can alter the properties of the second skin depending on how it will be used, making it more or less permeable. For example, a more permeable second skin might be used for under-eye bags, where a less permeable. For example, a more permeable second skin might be used for under eye bags where a less permeable one might hold a medication in place. It can be removed with a solution that dissolves the polymer.

Whoa, we're plastic people. I love it. Jesus Christ. Wow. As if the fucking Kardashians weren't plastic enough. They're going to have plastic faces. The old lady's going to look 20 again. By the time I need to get Botox or any kind of facial surgery, I'm not going to need it

anymore. There you go, dude. I'm just going to be able to spray some polymer on my face. That's what I like about you. You make lemonade. Exactly. You see something, you go, this is a positive on this. Fuck having plastic people.

I wonder if they feel like rubbers, though. Like, you know, like you touch people. Yeah. Like it feels good. Like skin touching skin. Yeah. I wonder if all of a sudden it's like touching a rubber well especially if you're wearing it right yeah like

if someone caresses your your cheek does it just feel like well i don't worry about what they feel like because your hands i'm assuming won't be covered by this shit no you wouldn't cover the unless you're really vain unless you're like my fingertips give away my age i don't like when i take baths and my skin prunes So can you do something about that? I want to run a really hot bath And then spray some polymer on my fingertips What the fuck, man? That's great

We're going to cover ourselves with rubber We're going to seal I mean, the fact that we've got enough money to be thinking about this Like, coming back to the question about poaching elephants in Africa Or me going to the Mumbai slum Like, what the fuck is the world on about? When you talk about the inequality between Beverly Hills and Baltimore, what about the inequality between people who are inventing polymers

so that we can spray them on our eye bags so that we look a little bit less old at the same time as there are people living on a penny a day in Mumbai? It's nutty. If you were an alien and came down to the earth right now, you'd be like, what are these guys doing? They've got plenty to go around. They've got tons of shit. That's a super good point.

And there's something that I was reading about today about a type of polymer that they've used on, God, what was it on? It was on certain, let me find the history here. It was on certain types of... It's like a plastic that could spray on things. And when they spray this shit on things, it actually... You could throw cinder blocks off of buildings and shit because of it. Wait, and the cinder block is okay?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The cinder block stays together. It's fucking madness, man. Cool. It's really weird. Let me guess. The military developed it. Sounds like something like that, right?

Probably. Let me find this stuff, because it's some shit that they spray on things. And they're using it on certain automobiles. It's like, hold on, let me find it real quick. In the meantime, you can open your podcast app and subscribe to We The People Live. There you go. That's hashtag We The People, all one word, live. And you can get more delightful conversations with the likes of myself.

It's called Linex. Jamie, Google Linex polymer coating. Because this stuff, they put it on plates and they threw it off of buildings. Like, look, they threw this. This is on the History Channel. They threw these cinder blocks off of a building. And then they cover the cinder block with this paint. And then they throw the same cinder block, same size cinder block, off a building that's covered in this protective coating.

And watch what happens. It just fucking bounces. Now, they did it with eggs, man. They did it with plates. They did it with eggs. And then on top of that, they did it with plastic cups where they had a sumo wrestler stand on plastic cups. Like, look at the egg. So they're spraying the egg.

And by the way, this is like less than a quarter inch coating that they put on these eggs. Boom. Bounces off the ground. ground wow this is crazy shit but look at the the cups is the really weird stuff they took this gigantic sumo wrestler and they had him stand on these plastic cups of course he crushes them then they take the same kind of cup and they cover it with this linex shit go way way back way way for there's a sumo wrestler dude you see easily is obviously just a little sippy cup it's a red like a red cup from you know frat party or something go way further ahead Jamie because he crushes you yeah but go away for it no watch look at this yeah he's standing on two red like beer cups yeah and they're not much bigger look they're

not much bigger no it's not like like they became super thick because of this stuff. So this must just, what does it do? I guess it just disperses the energy of the fall all across the product? I don't know, man. It's some super fucking polymer. I mean, what would you use it for? You'd just use it to make everything strong, I guess. Yeah, I guess.

Or cover your fucking whole body with, bro. Become Iron Man. Yeah, become like the thing from Fantastic Four, you know? Yeah, put a little bit of, put the old, put the anti-aging polymer on first, then put this shit on, jump off a building and bounce. Dude, that's what I'm talking about. Just run right through walls. Shit.

You reckon we're ever going to do that? I think in a hundred years from now, science and technology will have achieved results that are unfathomable. I think we are just in the infancy. I mean, go back to 1916. People lived like fucking cave people. They were barely human. They were monkeys. And think about what we're experiencing now in 2016.

Now imagine what 2116 is going to be like. Well, also think about if we can ever do what Ray Kurzweil wants us to do and be able to unite artificial intelligence with our intelligence. I think it's inevitable. If that happens, then that's going to be a bigger game changer than all of the physiological things that we've been able to do in terms of the evolution

since the Industrial Revolution. It's going to be like an information revolution and we're going to become cosmic gods. In some of a weird way i think it's inevitable because i just think as long as we don't blow ourselves up or we get hit by a meteor or a super volcano wipes out the planet i think it's inevitable we're going to continue not we not you and i we're not going to do shit we're just going to be talking speak for yourself i'm going to be the first one we're just going to be talking but there for yourself. I'm going to be the first one. We're just going to be talking, but there's going to be other people out there that are really fucking smart, and they're going to come together with

some other really smart people, and they're going to figure out some amazing things. We're just watching it. That's fake skin shit. When people wonder about why we haven't found extraterrestrial civilizations yet, and we haven't heard their radio waves, I'm so hopeful that the reason is that like

we just evolve out of that we've only had them for less than 100 years right we only been pumping them out for 100 years maybe uh maybe we're just about to find something else and we'll realize that the universe is actually teeming with all these conversations between different civilizations that we are just completely oblivious to and they don't care about reaching out to us because we're just little ants on a little rock floating around a star on an outer spiral arm of an insignificant galaxy called the milky way and they're like some some these guys will grow up and they'll join the conversation when they're ready it's probably exactly what's going on or it gets to the point where it's no longer necessary because intelligence and artificial intelligence become

exactly the same thing we create a different kind of life with technology. And our pursuit, like this fucking IBM machine that's beating people in that Go game, killing chess champions at their fucking preferred game, that one day it's going to reach some sort of a state where we have to accept it as a life form. Yep, and it has rights because it as a life form. Yep. And it has rights because it has a conception of itself. Can it go in any bathroom at once? How's that work?

Two computers walking to a bathroom. I was talking to someone who was saying that when we can grow artificial meat, because they're working on artificial meat in a lab, then will it be the case that the only ethical meat to eat that isn't artificial would be human meat because we're the only people capable of giving informed consent to have ourselves be eaten? But it won't even be ourselves. It would be, maybe we could take all these fat people and we could like suck body meat off of them.

They'd be like, I really wish I was thinner. And you go to a place and with no scars, they remove 30% of your body weight. I've got this polymer that I can spray on you, which just extracts some of your fat and your calories and puts them into a smoothie for me. Yeah, you just sell it as protein bars. You mentioned the Go game, the computer that beats people at Go. The thing that I find really fascinating about that is the computer that beats people at chess is basically just a brute number cruncher,

right? So deep blue and deep blue one, whatever was it, Kasparov. What that basically does is just looks at all of the different possible outcomes that you might be about to play and then rapidly calculates the probability that any particular move is going to yield a good result, right? We can all imagine how that functions. It's basically just lots and lots of numbers. But Go is so complicated. There are so many different options at any particular point in the game that no computer can even remotely and probably ever will be able

to calculate the game itself the way that the chess computer does. There are more options, I think, in a game of Go than there are, like, atoms in the universe universe it's some crazy stat like that so what the go computer i know when fuck that it's the power of it's exponential right so like if there's if there are two options and then those two options each lead to another two options which leads to another two options which usually another two options very quickly you get up to numbers that are you know it's like those thought experiments of how many times would you have to fold a piece of paper for it to reach the moon right and it's only like 30 or 40 times or something ridiculous like that

because it's doubling all the time can you look that up jamie how many times do you need to fold a piece of paper for it to reach to the moon but anyway so the point about the Go computer is it doesn't crunch numbers. It learns from other Go games. So they load into it all of the Go games, like thousands or millions of games that have happened. And it then looks at all of those games and tries to find patterns between the way the particular moves that humans have done in past games. patterns between the way the the particular moves that humans have done in past games and then uses its own intuition to run billions of possible games in its own head and it gradually learns from its own mistakes so it's not just a computer it's not just like a gigantic calculator like the chess computer is it is a form of artificial intelligence in that it is making

calculations i mean obviously it doesn't know anything we don't think right but it but for me it is a form of artificial intelligence in that it is making calculations. I mean, obviously, it doesn't know anything, we don't think. But for me, it's really super exciting because I do think that it's really interesting to ask the Turing test question of, like, when is a computer actually self-aware? And this is the beginning glimmers of that. I think within our lifetime, there will be computers that it's just meaningless to say they're not self-aware because they claim to be self-aware. They behave as say they're not self-aware because they claim to be self-aware they behave as if they're self-aware they tell us that they feel pain they tell us that they have an interest in their own continued existence in a way that's so authentic

and that learns that to say that they're not self-aware but like a chimp is would be meaningless do you think that they're going to start by just trolling people on twitter with like fake intelligence like imagine if this guy that you're arguing with on Twitter, he turns out to not be a person and they just realize what, what riles people up, what spins their gears. And they just start sending these troll Twitter things out and they just start having debates with people, like literally having debates and breaking people down and then being passive aggressive, being shitty, you know being uh inquisitive like they try a bunch of different approaches and they treat it the same way

they treat go games they just learn behavior patterns they would be the worst people in the world if they learned their behavior patterns off the way that we communicate on social media you'd just be creating a monster well it makes you wonder i mean if go games are that complicated yet they're able to master that what what about human personality do we do we kid ourselves and that we're so complex and amazing that nothing could copy us i mean what if some fucking computer figures out a way to bypass personality like personality is overrated we figured out a way to make the perfect personality. This is the formula. Run with it.

Everyone's going to love you. What was... Did you see that movie about Ex-Markiner? Yes. It was amazing. You know, that's kind of the conceit of that, right?

Yes. So the sort of the billionaire kind of leader, the Mark Zuckerberg type in that. The way that he builds the artificial intelligence is by hoovering up all of your social media information

from his kind of Facebook-style thing. And I i think you're right that that could be one way of creating an artificial intelligence to collect all of the communal inputs that we're putting in every single day on social media 100 100 possible and learn learn those patterns yeah jamie how many how many times i was just going to say there's a specific episode of that show, Black Mirror, I've been trying to tell you about that deals with this exact topic where there's some sort of

like android-created thing and they take this guy's whole social media presence and recreate, that's his new being. He died. I don't want to ruin all of it for you.

Ah, shut up. Yeah, it's Donald Gleeson, right? The guy from, yeah. It's actually the same guy, the actor that's in Ex Machina. So it's a little bit Oh that's right

Yeah yeah Which guy? The millionaire guy? No the The younger guy Fucked over Yeah He's a good actor

I gotta get out of here man I'm sorry We're out of time Hey loved it This was Anytime Flew by dude Always does

It always does Always does So much fun Yeah no I love being here When are you back in town? Don't know But I'll give you I'll call you

Fucking holler at me. Let's do it again, sir. I always will. My friends, we'll be back tomorrow. Oh, We The People Live and Josh Sepps on Twitter. We The People Live. Just to whore myself out yet further. Yeah, whore it up, baby.

Great. Thanks, mate. Tomorrow we'll be back with Alex Gray, a famed visionary artist. Should be a goddamn blast. See you then, you fucks.