The Joe Rogan Experience - #813 - Shane Dorian

Episode Date: June 22, 2016

Shane Dorian is a big wave surfer and bowhunter.

This is the first time Jamie's ever had a false start. He's getting tricky. That's real? That's real. We're live. Shane Dorian, how are you, brother? I'm doing great, thanks. Thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it. Yeah, no problem. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. You know, you come highly recommended by my friend Ben O'Brien, who's an awesome dude. Apparently you guys had a great time in New Zealand bow hunting. Yeah, I love Ben. He's very Texas.

Yeah. Yeah, we had a really good old time down there. You know, I had never been to New Zealand for hunting before. I had been there for surfing. So it was really cool to go and see different parts of the country and do some hunting out there and do some backcountry stuff. Surfing there, is it as dangerous as surfing in Australia as far as, like, sharks? No, not as dangerous, I'd say. You know, there are sharks there.

It's pretty close to Australia. It's only, like, a one-hour flight. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Same sharks are over there. But I don't know. I don't really think of sharks as much. There's no... You have a total radical fear of sharks, huh?

Fuck yeah. It's awful. They're scary, scary creatures, man. I'm fucking horrified. How close have you come to them? You should be. Very close. Yeah.

I got bumped off my board when I was a kid. Oh, no. Surfing at a place, you know, sort of near my house, but the water was, the sand was black. So, yeah, like I really couldn't, the water's actually clear, but the sand was black. So it bumped me, and I never really got to see what it was but i'm pretty sure it was a shark and uh there's a lot of sharks in hawaii a lot of sharks wherever the waves are good it seems like there's a lot of sharks man yeah well that's not a coincidence is it i don't know man they're just everywhere yeah they're crazy as you know it's funny about sharks as i was i was there's you

know i growing up i always thought you know the only real sharks I had to worry about were, you know, great whites. And, you know, I was born and raised in Hawaii. That's where I grew up surfing. And, you know, I always thought like great white sharks are always in like really cold places. I don't really have to worry around home. And they've been finding a ton of great white sharks around, you know, where I live now. They're all over Hawaii now. Great white sharks are actually warm-blooded, so they can totally adjust their body temperature

to be able to totally survive and thrive in warm water as well as cold. So they just go wherever the hell they want. Every time I go to Hawaii, whenever I turn on the news, the local news, some dude got bit. Oh, yeah. How often does it happen there? Pretty often. There's a lot of sharks. And you know what's funny is it never used to happen when I was a kid.

It wasn't even really a thought for me. I mean, I was scared of sharks and all that stuff. But people didn't really start getting chomped until I was a little bit older. In the last 10 years, there's been tons and tons of shark attacks in Hawaii. A friend of mine, Bethany Hamilton, she's a really, really talented surfer. She got bit. She got her arm chomped right off her body. Oh, that girl, that really young girl, yeah.

Yeah, in Kauai, surfing perfect waves out with her friend, and a shark came up and just ripped her arm right off her body. How gangster is she that she just gets right back on the board? And she survived. She's badass. She's super badass. She actually surfed some of the biggest waves all year last year. She got towed into a place called Jaws on Maui and surfing

50-foot waves with one arm. Getting pounded by giant waves and she paddles into some huge waves with one arm. Wow. And gets held underwater with one arm. That's incredible. Imagine getting held under from a giant wave underwater trying to one arm Wow yeah and gets held underwater with one arm imagine any held under from a giant wave underwater you know like trying you know just just I mean I know people who are terrified of surfing big waves with two arms and you

know they're underwater wanting a breath and she's under there with one arm imagine having like your arm tied to your side and having to try and swim to the surface big waves pretty scary now when you get hit by a big wave like that and you get sucked under, how long are you under normally for? Usually a pretty short amount of time, but it really varies. The worst thing about surfing really big waves, and we've had a lot of people die surfing big waves, and it is super dangerous.

The thing that kills people is getting held under for two waves. So if you fall on a wave, like if you take off on a wave and you fall and you're underwater for a super long time, and this has happened to me a couple different times. You're underwater really far, and then you start, you know, the wave holds you under and is rolling you along the reef towards the shore. And you're underwater near the bottom or at the bottom and then the waves just starts to dissipate and lose a little bit of power so you can finally start swimming up and then the next wave is meanwhile it's on its way and you're swimming up swimming up and the wave is coming at you and you don't get a breath and the wave takes you straight back down and that's how people die yeah that's scary shit so how long have you been held under for um about a minute and 10 seconds it's a long time the only reason i know that is because i had a terrible wipeout at a at a big

wave place in northern california called mavericks um it was my first first trip ever there and i was having this awesome trip it's like you know it's one of the best big waves in the world i always wanted to go there but i was pretty scared of it and i ended up going there and having a the first day i was there was super good i had a i had a blast i didn't fall once i had just had like a dream session caught all these big waves thought i was killing it next day just absolutely smashed me i took off on a wave ate shit down the face got sucked over the falls held under forever on the reef and i was swimming towards the surface and the next wave was like a 50 foot face broke right on top of me shoved me straight back down to the reef and what like as i was swimming up to try and get a breath i was doing those involuntary

you know when you're going like that and i was like shit i gotta get a breath now and then all of a sudden i was at the bottom and um yeah it was really scary but the scariest scariest time of my life and and and um meanwhile that meanwhile there was a woman on a boat and she was filming the whole ordeal my board was like they call it tombstoning where you can only see half your board and then you're and there's a leash right and you're connected to the bottom and the board was like this you can only see half the half the board for like and the next wave passed me by and my board was still like that for over a minute. It was like a minute and 10 seconds.

It weighed way too long. Wow. It's hard to hold your breath for a minute just doing nothing. Yeah, it is. Holding your breath for a minute while you're struggling and also your adrenaline is kicking in. You're freaking out. Yeah. And you're realizing that you got to get some air soon.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's when, you know, I mean, that's the whole thing is, you know, learning about breath hold. The whole thing that speeds up your breath hold is, or I should say shortening your breath hold is panicking. I should say shortening your breath hold is panicking. If you're able to stay calm and know that you're going to be okay, you don't use up your breath very fast. But if you start to panic, it's like flooring the gas.

It just speeds up the whole thing. So panicking is the last thing that you want to do. But when you're really terrified, that's what happens to everybody. There's a big connection between jiu-jitsu and surfing. A lot of people that I know that love jujitsu also love surfing and they do it all the time And that breath thing is something that comes into play in both situations because if you're in a bad position Like if someone's choking you or something like that you can relax and stay calm and kind of barely get out of things Whereas if you freak out and you start hyperventilating or panicking, you just have to tap. You run out of gas.

You run out of air. And then the choke sinks in deeper. And some people are just really good at surfing. And for some reason, like Hicks and Gracie is a famous example. He's really good at yoga, which is also really big for controlling your breath and staying calm and regulating your heart rate. And then he's also, you know, obviously a master at jiu-jitsu, but he loves surfing. And I think in some way those things are kind of connected that you have to maintain some sort of control over your physical body. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I think, you know, knowing how long you can hold your breath,

especially under pressure, especially with a high heart rate, is the key. You know, I did a breath-holding course. It was actually specifically tailored to surviving big waves. This course I did was four days long. And the first couple of days, they just kind of taught us the science behind breath hold, you know, and how to get your breath hold up. And then they basically worked our way up to our highest static hold. And then from there, we had to hold our breath for a quarter of that time under stress.

So when you take a breath hold course, like what are they teaching? Just the science of, you know, behind how some people can hold their breath for a long time and some people can't. And you know, the difference between the, it's basically psychological. It's all in your mind.

Really? Oh yeah, it definitely is. I mean, if you think you can hold your breath for, like if right now you tried to hold your breath for, and you could only make it a minute, for think you can hold your breath for like if right now you try to hold your breath for and you could only make it a minute. For sure, you can hold your breath for three. 100%. It's all in your mind.

Like if you believe that you're going to be fine, it just, you know, your body tells you that you need to breathe. Like for that course, I think the first day I tried to hold my breath and I'm in relatively good shape and I never, ever practice holding my breath at all. But, you know, I have pretty good lung capacity I I was training all the time, especially at that time The longest I could hold my breath the first day was like two minutes and 15 seconds or something like that And then by day the end of day three, I was holding it for five minutes and 34 seconds. Whoa Yeah, it's crazy. So it's just techniques and understanding it's all technique what is like the world record wasn't it wasn't that fucking magician guy didn't he break the world record he did like 17 minutes or something like that i'll play i keep it yeah but didn't he do something

weird where he sucked in pure oxygen or some cheating bullshit it's night and day yeah you can't do that i i think it gives you like um from from what i I think that's about twice as long as like a world record holder can actually hold their breath. I think he was packing oxygen. It's totally different. He was breathing up with pure oxygen for like a long time. It totally, you know, it's basically like, it like doubles your breath hold. Yeah, there it goes. 17 minutes and 4.4 seconds.

It's badass. It's pretty incredible even with the oxygen. Yeah, you know, I mean no matter how you slice it, that's a long ass time to not breathe. So he held the record for oxygen assisted static apnea. That would be

holding your breath while breathing after breathing pure oxygen. That would be super handy for my job. Pure oxygen? No, being able to hold your breath while breathing, after breathing pure oxygen. That would be super handy for my job. Pure oxygen? No, being able to hold your breath for 17 minutes. Fuck yeah, man. You'd be like, fuck these waves. These waves ain't got shit on them.

Yeah, I'm just going to swim to the bottom and kick it. Have you seen that product that they came up with? It's a bullshit fake product, but apparently people have spent like a million dollars on this thing trying to buy it. It's a fake, like a million dollars on this thing trying to buy it it's a fake like a gill machine they came up with this thing that allows you to breathe it's total bullshit it's fake but there was like these ads saying that allows you to breathe underwater and it looks like like a scuba mouthpiece but it's just got like it looks like two tampons on each side okay and this stupid thing doesn't work at all.

It doesn't do anything. But apparently this is a giant scam. And there was an article about how people have spent like all this money on this fake thing that doesn't even exist. It's crazy what people buy. That's it right there. It's absolutely nuts what people actually buy. This oxygen mask allows underwater breathing without oxygen tanks. But it's total bullshit.

So I don't understand where the money went or how it... See if you can find an article of what the fuck went wrong. Is it supposed to be like sucking oxygen out of the ocean? Yeah, how ridiculous is that? People thought that they were fish. Oh yeah, that's all you need is this thing. You breathe in through those and you pull out through that, but it's a total scam.

And if you order in the next 59 seconds, we're going to throw a second one in for half the price. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it would be cool if someone could come up with something like that, but that's just not how it works. It is bizarre, though, that there are things that breathe air out of the water. They can find a way to suck air out of the water. Like, life is very bizarre if you look at it that way. Yeah, very bizarre. And then you pull them onto the deck of the water. Like, life is very bizarre if you look at it that way. Yeah, very bizarre. And then you pull them onto the deck of the boat,

and they're like... Yeah, and then you put us underwater, and it's the opposite. We start panicking immediately. Yeah. So the shark thing, did they attribute it to anything, the reason why they've been biting more people lately?

Yeah, it's super debatable, though. Like a global warming type thing? Yeah, it's super debatable, though. Like a global warming type thing? Yeah, there's all types of stuff like that. There's a lot less fish than there used to be. And then the other thing is, the thing I think is a huge component is in the 60s, if someone got bit, they would do a shark call.

People would get pissed. Some little girl would get bit, and then all the fishing boats would go out and kill a ton of sharks. And that's what happened in Hawaii. I think know there was i think in the 60s there was there was some shark attacks and um there was a huge shark cult like people would just go out and kill as many sharks they could and so it decimated the shark populations in hawaii and then and then they were um and then they were protected in like the 70s and 80s so now there's this mega shark shark population because

they're protected you know you're not really supposed to kill sharks so there's an over abundance of big sharks i wonder if people would be the same if there was dragons would we protect dragons we're we're retarded we really are retarded for sure we would 100 like you're not going to wipe out the fucking sharks folks just relax just kill them all around where people are yeah it's it's it's crazy that they figured out like you know i mean technology for every single thing but they don't have some sort of you know i was i was thinking it'd be so you know like with in this day and age like we can do the craziest shit with technology like why can't they put buoys around a surf break with like some weird

magnetic thing that shoots down to the bottom of the ocean at that, you know, where it's like 30 feet deep, you know, like a half mile out from the break. And then everyone can swim there. Everyone can surf there, whatever the hell it is.

Like, how come they don't have that? Right. It seems so basic. It does seem like something they could figure out how to do, like some sort of an electronic fence. Yeah. It keeps them out.

Yeah. Like they have that keeps them out. Yeah. Like they have that for your dog. Yeah. You can put that in your yard and the dog can't go past it. But it'll probably give you dick cancer. You know, they'll probably find out. Shark dick. Yeah, all these surfers will start getting dick cancer.

And everybody will go, what the fuck? Oh, it's the fence. It's the fence. Yeah, we can't put up the magnetic fence because all the sharks will get dick cancer. Yeah, if sharks get dick cancer, then PETA will get upset at you. It's game over. Yeah, become a huge issue.

I'm not a fan of sharks. I don't like them. They scare the fuck out of me, and that's what's keeping me from surfing. Because surfing looks like it's fucking awesome. I see guys like you on those big waves. I don't know about the big waves. That's beyond me, I believe. Even when I was young, I don't think I would ever.

This kind of shit, I'm not designed for that. That's not fun looking? Nah, nope. That's not me. We're looking at it for people who are listening. We're looking at an image. Is that you? Who is that?

That's me. Oh, Jesus, dude. Tell me about this It looks like I'm falling off a building Falling off several buildings stacked on top of each other tell you what that that that actual moment right there It actually felt like I was falling off a building. It was a I was absolutely sure I was eating shit right there. So and you didn't I didn't yeah as a miracle I actually fell from the top and landed on my board and made the wave.

Oh, my God. It was a big wave. I had a wave off the north coast of Maui called Jaws. Yeah. How high is that wave? Probably 50 feet on the face. Maybe more. Maybe 60.

So you're falling off the top of the wave. Like it breaks and you're coming over the lip or the mouth. What would you call it? What do you call the edge of the wave? Yeah. Yeah. I'm falling from the lip. But the cool thing is you're doing it with your hands, you know, like you're doing it

with your bare hands. Like this wave comes in and you have to read the wave. You have to time it. You have to position yourself. So you have to catch it in the steepest part right before it throws over like that. Because if it throws over, you're eating shit. So, you know, you got to, it's just,'s just it's so precise you know to be able to time it on a giant wave like that especially like the bigger the wave is the faster it moves so it gets really

really technical so you know if you successfully ride one of those waves it's a lot of fun i would imagine it gets super addictive when you're in that tube and you're slicing through it and you see the water oh yeah going over the top of you. Yeah, it is. It is so much fun. It's like, um, it is, it's such a blast. It's, um, it's super addicting. I, you know, I've been surfing since I was, I've been surfing on, on a surfboard standing up since I was five on my fifth birthday, I got a surfboard from my dad. And, um, I'm still totally obsessed with it. It's weird. There's nothing else in my life like that where I'm absolutely psyched.

Like when the waves are good, I'm like a little kid still. What is it about it? Dude, it's like hunting. It really is. It's like I'm out in nature. No one's bothering me. I don't need to talk to anybody.

I can go do my own thing. I can go down to the beach no matter how shitty of a day I had, no matter how much stress, whatever. Like if my kid's getting a bad report card or I had to pay my taxes or whatever the hell it was, I can just put on my trunks, drive down to the beach, grab my board and I'm good. And as soon as I hit the water, I'm fine. And that's how I am with bow hunting. And people who don't bow hunt, they don't understand that. They're like, why the hell do you do that? Like, what do you, what do you

find, you know, like, what do you find good about that? Like being out in the forest for days at a time? It's the same thing. Well, obviously I've never surfed, but the bow hunting thing is so difficult and so primal. And I think it hits some weird ancient switches inside your DNA from back when people needed a bow and arrow to survive. And when you were hunting an animal, I mean, it's also, it's so primitive. Like there's something about rifle hunting that's not nearly as satisfying. Rifle hunting is, it's all exciting and it's way more effective. And you certainly have more success and there's more range to it.

But it's not nearly the same feeling. There's a switch that goes off that I think is like a part of being a human being from the thousands of years of us shooting bows and arrows at things to stay alive. That reward is like triggered somehow or another deep inside whatever it is that makes you a person. Yeah, it is. I mean, it's, you know, it all comes down to the moment of truth. You work so hard for that opportunity, whatever it is, an elk or a deer or whatever the hell it is, and you bust your ass and you're on your hands and knees in the hot sun or you're over there freezing your ass off in the dark waiting for it to get light. And you pack all your shit from the trailhead for miles and all this hard work and all the thousands of arrows you shoot at your target and it all of a sudden comes down to this millisecond where the elk stops in front of you. Yeah.

And you're sitting there full draw and it's like the moment of the truth. It's super technical and really difficult, and a lot of people suck at it, and that's why it's so rad. Yeah, it's very technical, and that is something that I just never took into account when I saw people shooting bows and arrows. I'm like, oh, your left arm's straight, your right arm pulls back, you make sure you aim, you let it go. And it seems kind of like a rifle.

With a rifle, what do you do? You center the reticle, you squeeze the trigger, make sure you aim. You let it go. And it seems kind of like a rifle. With a rifle, what do you do? You center the reticle. You squeeze the trigger. Make sure you don't jerk it. You're good. Yeah. There's so much more involved in the anchoring of where the string hits the corner of your mouth, where your hand rests below your jaw, making sure that your elbow is not too low, not too high,

your back muscles are pulling and remembering all that stuff in the moment yeah and getting to full draw yeah that is the hard part that's the big difference you know i mean that's i mean that's the main difference is like once that animal's in range you still have to get to full draw yeah and you don't have a crossbow you're not sitting there like this waiting without making any motion. You actually have to go full draw and somehow do that undetected without the animal getting alert or freaked out or running away. Yeah. It's a crazy little addiction, isn't it? It is.

It's very, very crazy. And it's also, I was watching a video. My wife would agree with you. Mine would too. I was watching a video of you. You were grilling some steaks, some, I think it was axis deer, at your house. And you were talking about it. Like the connection that you have to your food.

Like you went and you found that animal. You know that is a wild animal. That animal was just living like they've been living for hundreds of thousands of years. Just eating grasses and staying away from predators. You snuck up on it, and you placed an arrow right in its vitals perfectly and cut it up and brought it home, and now you're eating it.

And there's this insane connection to your food when you do something like that. Yeah. Well, especially when you look around and your family's eating it. Yeah. Like, I have little kids, and they're sitting there with deer on their fork.

Yeah. And they're eating it like, Dad brought this home. It's awesome. I think it's cool. You know, like, I don't know. There's just something so much more satisfying about eating food that you grew or killed or whatever it was.

You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's so cool when someone has an awesome garden at their house that they busted their ass and they know exactly where that food came from. It only touched their hands. Yeah. You know, it that food came from. It only touched their hands and, you know, it's the same thing. And it's even, it's even more so when you're, when you spend all that time in the mountains and, and, you know, you bring it home and you care for that meat and make sure

it's not dirty and make sure it's not spoiled and make sure it's taken care of perfectly. Like you go in my, in my freezer and I'm like a total, I'm, I'm actually kind of a slob in a lot of like different areas of my life. Like I don't make my bed a lot of times or whatever it is. But now when it comes to the meat, it's like perfect, total nerd alert. Like you go in and it's like everything's packaged perfectly. Everything's the perfect size. Everything's like itemized, like cut, date, animal, species, you know. Yeah.

Well, there's a deep respect for that animal that I don't think people who just buy their meat at a grocery store. I don't think they could ever understand it. I think you can kind of intellectualize it and you can kind of imagine what it's like, but I don't think you could ever really understand it. Well, and I can relate to that because I wasn't always a hunter and I wasn't brought up a hunter. I didn't come from a hunting family. Nobody in my family ever hunted.

When did you start? So it was all new to me. I started when I was 30 and I'm 43. So what was it that got you going? I moved from the beach where I lived my whole life up to the mountains. And I bought a piece of property and everything I planted got dug up by wild pigs. So there's wild boars all over the property. And my wife started getting pissed and I didn't know what to do. I wanted to plant fruit trees and all this stuff and everything was getting knocked over and smashed by all the pigs and so my buddy was like dude shoot him with a gun and you know shoot a couple and they you know they'll beat it

and so he gave me this shotgun or whatever i shot one with a shotgun and immediately gave it back to him i was like i'm not a gun guy it's just i'm not into the loud noises and i just was over it so i gave it back and i know what back. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know if I needed to fence my property. I didn't want to do that, you know, because I didn't want to, like, mess up their, like, natural pattern either. They were there long before I was. And my next-door neighbor was a bow hunter. He had an extra bow.

So I would go over to his house and have a couple beers and shoot arrows. And once I could group some arrows, he said I was ready to go hunting and and he took me boar hunting and the first night all these pigs were there and and i and i totally blew it i got to full draw and my my arrow fell off the rest and ding ding ding and all they all they all ran i made a bunch of noise but that was it the next day i went and bought it i used matthews bow down at the bow shop. And I started building tree stands by my house and trying to throw bait down for the pigs to come. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I didn't know any bow hunters.

So it was cool. So it's all self-taught. It was, yeah. I started with a good friend of mine at home at the same time. I didn't really have any super close friends that were bow hunters. But it's funny because soon after I started bow hunting, then I realized I did know a bunch of bow hunters. And I, like, immediately had a really cool circle of friends that were all experienced bow hunters. And they kind of took me in and taught me, you know, what to do, what equipment to use, and, you know, how to hunt.

And then I had, like, mentors in hunting that, like, really taught me how to to hunt like how to kill animals well hawaii is an amazing place for bow hunting and a lot of people would never imagine it is it is it's amazing between axis deer and mountain goats and all kinds of other crazy shit that you guys and the pig population pigs were brought over there um like hundreds and hundreds of years ago right yeah it Yeah, there's a Captain Cook thing. Was it? Yeah. Wow So there's really no animals in Hawaii Every single thing there is introduced except for like bugs and some birds, you know, so The deer the pigs the goats the sheep everything was all introduced So you go out in the mountains and there's lots and lots of different, you know

A lot of different animals out there and they're all introduced and they're all considered pests Wow, so it's a lot like New Zealand in that sort of a way New Zealand has an incredible amount of wild game, but it's all introduced and they they did it back hundreds of years ago again When Europeans wanted it as a hunting destination So they brought over stags and European animals and axis deer and all these things and just let them loose with no predators. Yeah, that's right. So their populations just exploded. Yeah. I mean, you can, what is it, what is it like over in New Zealand? Because when you look at the Lord of the Rings, you know, that's, that's all I know about New Zealand. I know

kim.com lives there and the Lord of the Rings and people go over there to hunt. It's very much like that. Uh, um, I hunted there this year and we hunted in some places that I didn't even hunt. All I did was take pictures and stare at the mountains. It was mind-boggling how incredibly beautiful it was. We were hunting these mountain goats called Tar. They're from the Himalayas. They're these hairy goats with this big giant sable fur thing and really small horns and they live in these glaciers

and these vertical cliffs. Maybe like a thousand foot cliff at the top of a five thousand foot mountain of a granite cliff. Like a little step ledge in it that's like six inches wide and that's where the tar would be standing. One tar would just be standing there all day long. Look at that thing. Yeah, they're badass

creatures. They really are. It doesn't even look real. Try and go kill one of those things with a bow on public land and send me the picture and i'll hail you forever they they are hard to kill with a bow i tell you that much did you get one i didn't i saw one um i was with remy he's a friend of yours right yeah yeah i was at remy warren and uh we spotted one and it's not like you know like where I come from. You go hunt Axis deer, you could see a thousand deer. What? In a morning. Yes. Where?

Mark my words, dude. Where is this? You're going to see them soon. On Lanai. Holy shit. On Lanai, you will see a thousand deer in a day. That's insane. So I'm used to going out and seeing tons of pigs and goats and deer and stuff like that.

I went to New Zealand and hunted these tar. And I'm standing there with remy at the bottom of this valley and we're hunting we're camping in the backcountry and we're you know we're glassing we don't see anything so we drive like half a mile glass right you know and we're in totally in the background we're driving straight up a river like deep in a river we got like a like a uh one of those like land cruisers with a snorkel we're in the middle yeah it's not like these animals are under radical pressure. And, you know, all of a sudden we see one, there's a tar and it's at the top of this

mountain, 5,000 vertical feet, five miles straight up hill. Or one mile, right? Well, I don't know. Whatever the hell it was. It's vertical. It's vertical. Right. Yeah.

I mean, it's 5,000 vertical feet, but you're looking at it and it looks like it's right right yeah i mean it's 5 000 vertical feet but you're looking at it and it looks like it's right there but it's vert right it takes you four hours to walk there because it's vertical yeah and uh you know we saw it probably we saw it at like i don't know three in the afternoon and it got dark at like six so he's like dude we have three hours we need to close the gap and we need to kill that tar today before dark. So we're literally like, quote unquote, running up the mountain as fast as you possibly could. And he's in pretty good shape, Remy is. He's a beast.

Yeah, he's a beast. I mean, that's what he does. He lives in the mountains all the time. So he's used to that. Yeah, they did one of those VO2 max tests on him. And he's got like elite triathlon endurance. He's like half human half tar yeah and uh so so he closed the gap to about i don't know 900 yards and it got dark and then walked back down

five hours in the dark yeah well it's fucking exhausting you don't realize like how hard it is to get up one of those mountains until you try it and you go oh like you think i'm in good shape i work out i go to the gym i'm on the elliptical machine this is gonna be no problem i'm not one of these fat guys oh yeah no it's fucking hard it's really hard like and it'll help like being light helps too light and thin when you're not carrying around a lot of weight yeah but guys like remy and steve ranella and the guys that do that all the time, they will embarrass you. Yeah, they will.

With how out of shape you are just walking up hills. You're just, you're just, you're just keeping them at a, you know, at your rate. Yeah. It's like, it's like you're slowing them down all the time. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, it, it does pay to, you know, to train, especially like in the mountains like that. Like if you're going to go on a big hunt it really helps to train a lot and now these animals how the fuck like i've seen goats

like on the side of cliffs where they're walking like along a vertical face and they're standing on what looks like these little two inch outcroppings and they're walking along on those like how the fuck do they do that like how are they designed like what what kind of evolutionary advantage to like walking along the side of a cliff face like that has led them to be this bizarre beast like most people don't think about them like what their capabilities are they can do like really strange shit like as far as their balance and how they can make it up the side of a cliff like look at these fuckers yeah like look at that that's exactly how the tar were dude. We're looking at something that just doesn't even look real We're looking at these goats that are walking along the face of this cliff and the cliff is almost

90 degrees it's almost up and down and these things are somehow or another finding footholds where their whole body like the side of their body is Slammed up against the side of the mountain, and they're making it up this cliff. And they're not forced to be on that cliff. That's the craziest thing. When I was hunting those goats in New Zealand, those tar, just below where they were, there was these rolling hills,

really steep still, but it was rolling hills with grass. They choose to be on the rocks because they actually eat some weird stuff that grows on those vertical cliffs. So wild. What are they eating? I was tripping balls the whole time. I was like, you gotta be kidding me. That animal's not forced to be there. He's choosing to be on that

six inch wide ledge, a thousand feet on a vertical cliff. We're looking at this picture, folks. Jamie, what was the Google search if someone's listening? Just like climbing goat. This picture that we're looking at now, there's probably like eight of them.

And they're on the side of this mountain and it just doesn't even look real. And the tar, they don't look real as it is. They look like some sort of a mythical creature from some ancient Greek novel. They do. It's hard to, it's really hard to appreciate how hardcore that kind of hunting is unless you do it. You know, I think that like 90, I'm going to piss people off when I say this,

but like 98% of the hunting that happens in America is like park your truck, walk to your tree stand, get in the tree stand, play words with friends until the deer comes underneath the tree stand, get the full draw, and, you know, you got your tag filled, which is great. I'm sure it's a blast, and I like tree stands and all that stuff. But that kind of hunting is just like a – it's weird how hunting is clumped in to like, oh, you're a hunter.

And that's all people sort of need to know. You know, there's like so many different kinds of hunting and so many different ways to do it. Different weapons, different approaches, different, you know, it's like crazy. Like some people are shooting animals at, you know, 1500 yards with high powered rifles. Yeah. They want to be as far as possible. That's the goal. And for us, it's like we want to be as close as possible.

That long-range stuff is very strange because there's a lot of ethical questions that come up with that because any movement whatsoever at 1,500 yards, I mean, you have to be like a real fucking expert marksman to pull something like that off. So there's a lot of dick-wagging going on when you're killing something at like 700 800 a thousand yards it's weird it's like you don't really have to do that like you get closer to that animal i think that's the goal

though yeah the goal is to anybody can get to 200 yards from any animal yeah i don't care what animal it is you can get if you can't get to 200. You can get, if you can't get to 200 yards, you got major problems. If you can't get to 100 yards, I mean, even from like an antelope. Yeah. You know, you can belly crawl your way

in the middle of nowhere to 100 yards from antelope. Yeah. Especially if you have one of those ghillie suits. You know, Remy has this show called. You just move super slow.

Yeah. Have you seen Remy's show? It's called Apex Predator. I haven't seen that one, no. Really good show. And it's really interesting because Remy, you know, Remy's a really good athlete. And he's also just a really smart guy.

And what he does is he tries to mimic all of the behavior of predatory animals like wolves. And he'll do like him and a bunch of his friends were doing some sort of like a chase the same way that a wolf would chase down an elk yeah and one of the things that he did was he put on a ghillie suit and he crawled up to these antelope and just slowly creeped his way up to these antelope and as long as you're patient and you move slow like he got within like seven feet of fucking antelope as long as you go slow enough yeah you just that's a mistake I make all the time. You know, when I blow a stock, it's almost always because I went too fast. Yeah.

No matter how slow you go, you should almost always go slower. Well, one of the things that I found out recently, you know who Randy Ulmer is? Yeah. Famous bow hunter. It's probably one of the most successful bow hunters ever. He shoots most of his animals with no shoes on. Is he? Yeah.

Yeah. He takes his boots off, and he's got just thick wool socks and he just walks he just creeps nice and slow and that's one of the reasons why he's so successful he realized like okay you can't just be walking around with these fucking clunky boots and snapping twigs and shit like that and so he feels everything underneath him and it's just like have you ever been around a bear, like when a bear is walking through the woods? No, not really.

They don't make any noise. It's kind of creepy. Like there's this big ass fucking 300 pound bear and it's not making a single sound as it's walking because they have soft pads and they're predators. So they're just fucking creeping. And that's kind of like the idea of the approach, just creep inch by inch. Yeah.

Bears blow my mind, too, because I'm from Hawaii, so I don't even know anything. I know nothing about bears. So I think they're all like Yogi Bear. They're coming to grab your jam i hang out and camp with you you know they want to hug or something like that and uh man i went hunting i did a do-it-yourself over-the-counter tag elk hunt with my buddy from hawaii and we were in colorado and we and we and we hiked into this area and we're all excited you know we don't we didn't know shit about elk hunting you know i didn't know how to call them i didn't know what they did i didn't know how they

worked i read some articles i didn't know what the hell was. I didn't know what they did. I didn't know how they worked. I read some articles. I didn't know what the hell was going on. And so we drop off our stuff, and we've got about an hour to hunt, and then we're going to come back and set up our little camp there at a creek. So I do a big loop. I come back a little bit early. I'm going to set up my tent and stuff. And I get to one side of the creek, and my friend's across the creek setting up his tent

and getting our food out, like salami like whatever else kind of food we had and i look and i was just about to like yell out to him like hey did you see anything i was like maybe 60 yards away from him and i looked to my left and there's a bear a big bear big black bear standing on his hind legs it looked like one of those targets you know those big old targets you shoot one of those things and he was just staring at my friend he had no idea i was there the bear didn't know i was there and then my friend had no idea the bear was there he's sitting there like butt crack hanging out like getting all the food out and his bear just staring at him from across the creek it was radical and i just immediately knocked an arrow and just like sat there and then the bear saw me and then looked

at my friend looked at me looked at my friend and then it was this vertical mountain right behind him we were at the bottom of this creek and the bear thought about it and then just turned around and just hightailed it straight up this mountain like he was on the flat ground it was crazy my friend everything saw him yeah that story that you were telling before the podcast started tell that fucking story yeah that made me really even more scared of bears yeah tell tell that story yeah so uh it was a few years ago i uh i read this i read this story on a bow hunting magazine and it was a story about this this guy and his son and they were hunting elk not sure which state but um the son was in the front and he was set up and the dad was in the back probably 60 yards back and the dad was cow calling and there was a the front and he was set up and the dad was in the back, probably 60 yards back.

And the dad was cow calling and there was a bull there and he was starting to come into the call. And so the kid was standing there waiting for his shot and the dad was sitting there cow calling behind him. And all of a sudden the elk runs off and they thought the wind had waffled on him or something. And right behind the elk, like 50 yards past the elk was a giant grizzly bear standing straight up staring at him and the kids started getting nervous the bear started hightailing it straight at the kid and the kid turned and started running at the dad and as the kid and the and the dad went to full draw he had a bow it was it was it was archery season he had no gun so the dad grabbed his bow

got an arrow on had somehow had the clarity to get to full draw as the kid passed his dad the dad made a perfect shot on the bear the bear right then catches up to the kid dives on the kid and starts mauling him and ends up dying on the kid and And there was a picture in the article. It was incredible. There's a picture in the magazine of the kid, and he's covered, covered head to toe in blood. The bear died on him with a heart shot, blood all over him. So the kid had, like, bear blood. Is that the photo?

Yeah. Oh, my God. It's so gnarly. Oh, my God. It's just the only picture they have. What is, um, how do you find this, Jamie, if somebody wants to? It's called Dad Zero Saves Son from Grizzly attack dude outdoor life fuck it's a heavy article

man it's no joke and the and the and the perspective from the dad you know it's like can you imagine i mean i i have i have kids and i can't even imagine like you know what kind of mental state you'd be in if you saw a giant bear chasing after your kid. That dad's a bad motherfucker. Yes. To keep it together? Yeah. Whew, that gives me the nerves, the jillies, whatever the fuck it is. My goosebumps are popping up.

I saw a grizzly when I was in Alberta black bear hunting a couple weeks ago. They look at you so different, man. Black bears are creepy enough, you know. man. Black bears are creepy enough, you know? And, uh, Rinella was telling me a story about this guy who, uh, first trip ever hunting gets attacked in his tent by a 500 pound predatory black bear. His friend shoots the bear. Screw that. The bullet goes through the bear and hits his friend in the wrist. So this kid, first, first black bear hunt ever, first camping trip out, he's going in the woods like, this is going to be great. We're going to get to hang out with nature.

A bear tries to eat him, and his friend shoots him. They killed the bear. They wound up killing the bear. But black bears are scary, but they're nothing like grizzlies. This grizzly looked at us, and they look at you like demons. They have a total different look in their eye. Like there's nothing going on back there. It's just dead kill machine yeah

they don't feel bad when they then they eat you feel awesome your guts they're just they're just like super delicious right now oh yeah you could be screaming great yeah it's we is people are so strange there are detachment from wildlife that when you're actually around them even just around an elk like when you're around an elk and elk are calling and they're making those crazy sounds, you're like, what the fuck? Is this real? It's crazy when they're fighting, too. Oh, yeah.

Over the girls. Yeah. I just, that blows my mind. Like, hunting deer or elk in the rut and seeing them fight over the girls is the best. Yeah. It's the best. And seeing, like, the one that loses gets his ass kicked and he kind of, like, just walks off.

Like, oh, gosh, got my ass kicked. And then the bull or the big dog who wins, he's on. That's his whole harem. His whole harem full of girls. And he's just like, I'm the badass. And he just gets his fuck on. Yeah. And you've got to breed them all, you know?

I was in California at Tajon Ranch last year, and these two huge elk were smashing horns. They were both like 360 class elk, which is like, for people listening, just enormous antlers, six points on each side, thousand pound animals just running at each other. Head butting each other and stabbing each other. And while we were there,

they found one enormous bull that had been killed by another bull, been stabbed in the in the side and punctured his lungs and it you know was just laying there yeah jacked enormous bull yeah it's the coolest it's the coolest just seeing them like act like how they're supposed to be and how they've been doing it for hundreds of thousands millions of years it's just nuts just to be a part of that and see it yeah it is and it's almost like when we were talking about the goats being able to walk up the side of these cliffs. Like these animals, they've evolved to develop horns that are swords.

They have like spears growing out of their fucking head. And they know it. Yeah. They're well aware of that. And they're trying to kill the other one because they're so hopped up. And they were just hanging with that guy a few weeks ago. They were hanging out feeding out in the grass. And they'll hang out with him again if he survives.

They will. They'll hang out. They make these bachelor groups. Yeah, they get pissed. Did you see that video of the lady in Yellowstone that was like, Hello, elk. Hello. Hello, my friend.

I'm your buddy. Oh, man. And this elk just fucking headbutts this bitch and sends her flying. Are you serious? She went flying. Wow. Yeah. How was that Grizzly Man movie?

Did you see that thing? It's awesome. That's awesome. I've seen it about 10 times. If you don't see that, you're tripping. It's so good. I'm trying to get Werner Herzog to, his people contacted me, the director of it, to be on the podcast.

I'm going to try, look at this. She's like, hello. Hello, Mr. Elk. That shit gonna try look at this. She's a killer Almost like a comedy, you know, I mean like when I watched like this movie I felt like it was a comedy the guys were Oh, oh He goes did you get that on video that's just gonna go fire That shit's gonna go fire on me. Listen to her. I'm just gonna tell you, you're too close to that elk, and that's why. You have a long time to spend out here.

Thank you. 25 yards, ma'am. It's been a long time. Thank you, sir. It's been a long time. Thank you, sir. I'm totally used to these elk. I'm out here every year.

It's 25 yards. It's funny. He's got, like, a number in his head that you have to be 25 yards from them. Yeah. And then you're totally safe. Yeah. You're good. No problem.

You're super safe. Please. If they decide 50 yards to make a mad dash you, he's got a boner and this chick got scared off and he decides it's you that's scared off. Just go spear you. They have no problem. Do you see the one where there's a guy was sitting on the side of the road as a photographer? Here's a real recent one.

And they actually had one up euthanizing the elk because this elk fucked with this dude for like, the video's like 10 minutes long. The elk's just like headbutting this guy and the guy's sitting there trying to cover his head. It's a spike, a really young bull. And this photographer's just hanging there and this bull starts headbutting him.

And the guy's just decided to just play passive. This is it? Yeah. And this, but this goes on forever, man. And this bull just kind of, it's not sure what to do.

Cause he's a really young bull. You're looking at that bull. A spike is like what a year old. It's funny how they get so smart. So quick. You know, it's like, it's like at that age when it you know

it's like a like a yearling bull like a little spike they're pretty stupid you know they'll come to any call and they're kind of spaced out they don't really know what a human looks like but man once they turn into like six by six they are they are not dumb yeah they get turned on yeah but like this elk i think i could kill that elk on my hands yeah i? I'm pretty sure I could. I'd like to see you try. Get a hold of those antlers. I spin around, take his back. Yeah. Rear naked choke. That's what I'm thinking.

Yeah. I'm thinking I get his back and he's fucking done, man. It would be fun to try, for sure. Meanwhile, he would ride. Look at the back straps on that guy. He would ride off with me. He would load up the barbecue. He would.

He'd fill your freezer. Oh, yeah. Well, those are the most delicious ones. If you actually can kill one that's really young like that, they're really tender. The same with deer. You know, everybody wants to shoot. But that's the thing about elk. They're so delicious that even the old ones, the old tough bulls, they taste amazing.

It's the best meat you can eat. It's funny because I feel like super remorseful when I get an animal on the ground no matter what it is no matter if it's like a uh an elk or a deer or a pig or whatever i have this weird feeling when i walk up like i i don't i don't feel bad i just feel like just as like heavy connection with that animal you know like i took its life that was that was my choice you know like i could have let it walk right but at the same time like if it's like a younger deer i'll smoke it you know because those are really good eating yeah that's what i'm trying to do i'm out there trying to it's funny i i don't i don't have a list of animals in my head that i need to get are you one of those guys where you're like i need to kill a mountain goat i need to get a stone sheep i need to get a zebra i need to find

that weird man there's a there's a show that I watch. You ever seen that Tom Miranda's adventure bow hunter show? I don't have television, dude. I'm like a Wookiee in the mountains. You don't have a TV? I don't have TV. Wow. I got like Netflix on my computer. There's a lot of these guys that are into the super slams, you know, which means that all the North American game animals and that just seems like a fetish to me. It gets real bizarre. I think you're losing sight of what this thing is supposed to be all about.

Yeah, I'm totally fine with however anyone, you know, if someone's into getting lions or whatever, that's their trip. You know, I'm not going to judge them. But I'm just, that's not me. I don't have a list of animals at all. If I just hunted mule deer and elk for the rest of my life and access deer I'd be good. Yeah, I could hunt all year long and never get bored with those three animals I feel weird about bears bears are the ones that weird me out the most like killing a bear and eating it

It's just first of all It's really like one of the best animals like from a conservation standpoint It's one of the best animals to kill because they don't have any predators and so if you don't kill them they well the only thing that kills bears is other bears so they like where we hunt in alberta there's a giant population i mean it's not uncommon to see 20 30 bears in a day it's really really overflowing with bears it's a public service to get, like, to take a few bears. Well, it decimates not just the moose population, the deer population,

but the crazy thing is it's bad for the bear population for there to be this many bears because the boars eat cubs. Like, they're a weird animal. Like, elk don't eat elk. But bears, like, they're predatory, man.

They just go for an easy meal. There was an article recently that I posted today on Twitter that they're finding that Grizzlies are going towards people When they have cubs and it's super fucking dangerous But the mama bears are realizing that when they're around people that the big boars Won't kill their bet their cubs as much so here it is brown bears are using human shields to protect their cubs But it's incredibly dangerous for people because when you're around a mama bear and she's got cubs, she'll fuck you up, man. Yeah.

Yeah, you don't want to get near one of those. There's another one that I retweeted yesterday. Some woman who was in a marathon. She was running a marathon in New Mexico. And she ran past a mama bear with her cubs. And the mama bear just decided to fuck her up. Just beat the shit out of her, cut her up, ripped her apart

and she just played dead. She's really jacked and there's a picture of her all scarred up. The bear left her alone and then some other marathon runners came over and saw her huddled up in a fetal position all fucking covered in blood. That's a life changer

right there oh yeah how's the meat bear meat is really good it's really good yeah yeah there's a lot of misconceptions about bear meat well apparently grizzlies are nasty yeah especially if you get a coastal grizzly that's eating salmon all the time fall bears and spring bears right like the taste of them i heard i heard, I forget which one, but I heard one is a little bit better than the other. Fall's supposed to be the best because the fall bears are eating berries.

I've only killed spring bears, but spring bears taste really good. Yeah. Like I was saying, like from an ecological standpoint or from a conservation standpoint, it's probably one of the most

important animals to kill other than, say, white-tailed deer because there's so, two million or so, what was the number? Like 1.5 million car accidents in the united states alone 200 people die in the united states every year from hitting

deer with their cars that's the thing is people are so so like quick to point the finger like i can't believe you'd kill a bear you can't believe it but they just can't wrap their head around the fact that they need to be those numbers get so out of control yeah and the world's never going back to how it is before we lived where the bears live you know right that argument's a weird argument you're in their land yeah yeah like and i get it that's fine but it doesn't matter that point's invalid because all the people live there yeah and when there's millions of bears running around it's just it's not good for them either you know but even knowing that i still feel weird when I kill a bear. They're so much like a dog almost.

They're like an enormous big dog. I think they're cool. They're cool animals. I like looking at them. I still want to hug them. I still want to. What was that show when we were kids? Grizzly Adams?

Grizzly Adams. And he had that, that was his best friend. I wanted to be Grizzly Adams so bad, dude. It wasn't the beard or the hat or anything. I just wanted to hang out and spoon that bear every day. It was so awesome. There he is. There he is, Grizzly Adams.

That guy had the original hipster beard. I used to have, that guy would get so many chicks right now in Venice. I know, right? He was fucking owning it. Yeah, he would. Look at him, he's lifting weights. I didn't know he was yoked. He's got a grizzly bear on his chest. Is that dude still alive?

Oh, man. Grizzly Adams. It says death. It's right there. It says death, so I would say no. Yeah, grizzly. He was so cool. It's funny, I had a... Oh, he just died. My wife and I... Dan Haggerty. My wife and I got a. My wife and I, Dan Haggerty, my wife and I got a Bernie's Mountain Dog years ago.

Have you seen those? It's like a big Swiss dog. No. Awesome. It's related to a St. Bernard. So it's very similar to a St. Bernard, but they're not like a slobbering breed. They don't have slobber. So they're really awesome.

They have these really cool markings, But mine was like 130 pounds. So it was like a grizzly bear. And I swear I was like living my childhood dream of being Grizzly Adams. Because I would come home and roll around with my big bear. You know, it was like he was like a big grizzly bear. He was awesome. I wonder if that's what did Grizzly Man in. Like maybe he saw Grizzly Adams when he was a kid.

Either that or he had just a bad batch or something. He was tripping. I laughed the whole movie. Oh, yeah. It's a hilarious movie. Even at the end. Even at the end when he gets wasted by the bear, I thought it was comical. Well, how about the fucking sheriff?

If anybody had ever been asking for it, it was that dude. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was suicide by bear. I really do. Yeah. Because he went back

Into the area When you're not Supposed to be there When the animals Are in hibernation Except for the really Desperate ones Yeah

And he knew that They were killing cubs Like that was like Part of the video He stumbled upon These cubs That this bear had killed They were starving at death

The rivers had no salmon They had all dried up There was no salmon run And it was getting Real sketchy. He stuck around. They've accepted me as one of them. Yeah. That's the best. I just died laughing.

Oh, man. That would have been a bad way to go. When the sheriff talked about it, I thought he was retarded. It is like a comedy. I think it's a comedy. And I want to talk to Werner Herzog because he's supposed to... Apparently, we're in contact with his people want to talk to Werner Herzog because he's supposed to we're apparently but we're in contact With his people we're trying to work something out because he's got something else that he's promoting

But there's no other documentaries that he does that are funny like that. Yeah, like that one is fucking funny I'm not sure it was meant to be funny But you know it is a human being you have to just like look and be like you gotta be kidding me with this Dude, there's some wild people out there, though, for sure. Timothy Treadwell desperately wanted to be one with the bears. So good. That shit's gold, dude. It's gold. I'm protecting

these bears. No one's protecting these bears. When he goes in those rants, because he would film himself going on three or four different rants, and he would only use one of them, but some of them he would just start swearing, and fuck you, park department. Where's the lost tapes?

I want to get like the lost tapes. Well, they had a whole series. Did they really? They took his tapes, and they made a whole series about it. And it was fucking, I mean, he had like hundreds of hours of footage. And he got amazing, amazing, unprecedented close-up footage of bears. Because no one's that fucking stupid. No one's that crazy.

Yeah, you've got to be nuts. Yeah. And those things were not, like, close to a town and used to humans. That was, like, in the middle of nowhere. Middle of nowhere. Those bears were straight-up, like, wild grizzly bears doing wild grizzly bear shit. Yeah, and he was watching them go to war with each other. I mean, he got footage from, like, 20, 30 yards away of these two enormous grizzly bears.

He was telling them to stop it, huh? Yeah. Stop it. Stop fighting. Well, that guy was 100% fighting the gay. Like, the gay was disturbing him so much, he decided to go camping with monsters. He's like, I can't accept the fact that I'm gay. And so he would like fix that problem didn't yeah

I did well. Yeah, girl with him at the time, too apparently Apparently there's audio, and I don't know if they destroyed it, but that was part of the the documentary There's it lasted seven minutes because bears don't fucking kill you they just start eating you yeah They can hold you down. They're not trying to kill you. They just want to eat you. That's a weird thing about omnivores as opposed to predators. Like predators just kind of kill you

but omnivores for the most part they just hold you down. Like chimps chimps just hold things down and eat them. The whole like thing where like we want to like dispatch an animal as quick as possible to stop the suffering. They don't have that part in them. They're just like you want to scream go ahead yeah if you're gonna get jacked by something a cat is the way to get jacked because cats know how to kill you yeah they're

really good at it mountain lions be scary man quick though yeah scary but once they get your neck yeah you're toast it's pretty much it but guys guys fight them off. People fought off mountain lions because I think animals, they have this, this like tipping point where they go, okay, could I get fucking injured here? If I can get injured here, I'm going to back off and go kill something stupid. I'm going to go fuck someone's dog up or something, you know, because there's, there's like a tipping point where the animal realizes like this guy is fighting for his life. Fuck this. This is too much work. I'm out of here. Yeah. You you know and that

brings me back to the shark thing like the that that would be like just a horrific way to go because those those things are enormous and when they want to kill you they'll kill you and they just cut right through you well this is a strange animal it's like nature's cleanup crew nature's just decided like there's just too much shit in this ocean and so we're gonna just develop this insane thing that doesn't even, it doesn't even get to sleep. Did you see the footage of the surf contest that happened last year in Africa? Where the guy gets attacked by the shark.

That's a good buddy of mine. And they, I mean, that was like a 18 to 20 foot long great white shark. Yeah. Pull that up, Jamie. When I saw, I was on a plane when that happened and i was landing in honolulu and i turned my phone on and had like all these crazy messages and from all my friends you know because it's just you know it's a really small world in the surf world and that was like that was no accident that the that this giant great white shark was

within a couple feet of him you know look at that that. Everyone's like, oh, it wasn't trying to attack him. It didn't mean anything. Great white shark is that close to a human being? It was having a real good look, you know, I think. Oh, fuck yeah. It may not have been wanting to attack him or whatever, but it didn't just get accidentally stuck in his leash. You know what I mean?

When you do that. That right there is as scary as a human being could possibly be without getting killed right then. Yeah, and he's looking at it it's behind him and he's swimming that's it right there right that's it in front of him that that's it was right body it was right there dude oh my god yeah he's hard as nails and and and the other guy julian wilson um that was mick fanning in the in the blue and look at He's just... That feeling when he got up on that raft. And when that was going down, it was a full-on ordeal of like, you know, it didn't happen like real quick. And he just jumped on.

It was like, that was like a lot of seconds right there happening. His board got taken away from him. And he had to swim and splashy, splashing water, you know, panicking. And then the other guy, Julian Wilson, Wilson in his heat was 100 feet away and Was paddling full speed towards him to try and help Instead of like that's like that's like when you show your true colors You know yeah That's when you know that shit's going down is when you see a friend of yours getting What he thought was attacked by a great white you probably

It's probably just a switch that goes off in your head. You probably don't even, it's probably just pure lizard thinking. You know, it's like the survival feeling, like when that thing hit his board and you're in full on panic mode, you realize like you have got to get the fuck away from this thing. There's no other options. Well, I watched it and you see him, he doesn't like go, hey, what was that? He reacts super quick. He's ready to like fight if that thing was there i'm 100 sure he would have started swinging right right away if it was right there you know i have a friend actually i have a friend where i live um he's actually he

lives on the same island as me he's from from where i live and a tiger shark came up grabs him takes him underwater by the side grabs him with a full mouth bite down his ribs and his hip and takes him underwater like six feet underwater and he had a straight up punch up with the thing underwater oh my god he was beating the shit out of the shark he's a big dude it's hard to get like he was at the time he was like 16 years old his name is ulu and he's a local hawaiian kid from where i live and it took him underwater and he straight up fought the shark. Wow. And it ended up letting him go. I think he had like 200 stitches or 300 stitches or something.

And his whole side was just cut open. It's amazing that he's okay. Amazing he's okay. I can't even imagine what that little you know, just looking there and the thing, like looking at the eyeball, it would have been right there like staring at him, you know. And he said he was just hitting the thing as hard as he possibly could luckily he's a big dude it's crazy

that they're attributing it it makes sense though to overfishing that they just don't have enough to eat anymore it makes sense totally makes sense and and the thing is no matter how many attacks there are like there's been there's been a shitload of attacks in australia a lot in certain pockets like certain areas and there's one area in eastern australia like on the east coast that has had a ton of attacks in the last five years and another place on the west coast and there's all these groups that are just like nope you can't do anything to the sharks you cannot do anything to the sharks you know well who are these groups and what what is their agenda environmentalist groups that just like no matter what you can't you can't hurt nature type of thing you know is there a shortage of sharks well i've man it's it's it's hard but the bottom line is if there

were less sharks it'd be less attacks right yeah yeah so yeah it's difficult there's not a real there's not a real solution where where you can where you're gonna make everybody happy you know no well you're never gonna make everybody happy, you know? No. Well, you're never going to make everybody happy when you have environmentalists or animal rights advocates. There's a lot of, like, really fucking crazy environmental and anti-hunting animal rights activists. They're not using logic or conservation. They just love animals. They want them protected at all costs. What's interesting is they don't have any problem with animals fucking up animals. No.

Like, they don't like people eating animals, but they don't have any problem with animals just ripping animals apart. Yeah. It's weird. It is weird. It's weird because it's like they accept nature, they love nature, but they don't like the nature of a human being a predator. Like, they want to move

away from that. Yeah. People are a trip these days, man. It's funny because the whole social media thing for me is relatively new. It's, you know, obviously we didn't grow up with that. And it baffles me because, you know, I can spear a fish. And I've posted like a photo of me. Nobody gives a fuck. Like with my spear and my fit, there's like a bloody fish in my hand.

Good job. Great going. Awesome. Great going. Awesome. Great fish. No one says a word about anything that I killed a fish. You kill a deer, oh, man. People just freak out. See what happens when you kill a bear.

A bear. I can only imagine. The more people have hated me for that than anything I've done besides Fear Factor. Yeah. Besides Fear Factor. They get so mad. I'm like, I'm eating it. This is what I eat. I don't buy meat. People have such a problem with that, man.

I get these dumbest comments. Literally, there's plenty of meat in the store. Why would you have to go and do that? You're a terrible person. I'm not a terrible person because I go to the store and eat it. You're a terrible person because you go and get your food yourself and kill it. Because you did the killing with your own hands, you're person because I go to the store and eat it. You're a terrible person because you go and get your food yourself and kill it. Because you did the killing with your own hands, you're bad.

Yeah. I go and buy it with my money. You don't have to be a killer. You don't have to be a killer. It's pretty wild. That whole, it just blows my mind. Because, you know, I didn't grow up in a city. Like, I get all these people from, like, Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paulo or someplace in like South America or a big city.

I don't have to point. I'm not pointing the finger at South Americans or anything like that. It's like but it always it's always people who are in cities because they have this major disconnection from their food. Right. And where I live, I mean, I live I live in Hawaii. Everybody I know is a fisherman or a hunter. And they, you know, people have gardens. It's like there's a way of life where they where we live

there's tons of fish everywhere if you throw your net you're going to get dinner that's what people do yeah they you know they eat the food that they get around them and not always but that's just a it's very very typical to to be a hunter or a fisherman and you know like where i live that's viewed as the same exact thing a fisherman fisherman and a hunter is the same. I don't see the difference. And so that's why it's shocking to me with the whole how people are totally fine with you clubbing a bunch of fish. But the second you kill a deer, they just lose it. Yeah, well, it's exactly what you said. It's just the disconnect of not really understanding where their food comes from, not being in any way connected to the idea of the natural cycle of life

Yeah, and then there's also a hierarchy of animals that you're allowed to kill and not allowed to kill it Oh, yeah turkeys nobody gives a fuck when you hold up a dead turkey. No, they don't give a shit No, but if you hold up a dead bear and dead and a dead boar. Oh, yeah. That's other thing to those things Yeah pigs they don't have a problem. They don't give a shit about pigs. It's weird. Get rid of them. Especially boars. Plus, they're eating pigs, too. Yeah.

Like most people eat bacon every day, right? Yeah. So it's like, yep, get rid of those boars. That's a disgusting, filthy animal. Kill it. Yep, I'm going to have my bacon, too. Yeah. Why'd you shoot that deer, though?

Yeah, or the bear. You didn't have to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the bears are the big ones. Because I think in a lot of ways people associate bears with trophy hunting. And trophy hunting is something that, I mean, I get it. I understand that there's a lot of money involved in it for the communities where they shoot these animals and that it benefits them.

And then also they have population issues with a lot of these animals. Like we were talking about it yesterday. The thing that happened in Zimbabwe was Cecil the lion Yeah, how they have to shoot 200 lions now they have to kill them because they're just decimating the undulate population Nobody knows about that all those people that were pissed about Cecil have no idea they got to kill the lions yeah Well no idea how it works over there and the only reason those lands are alive is because hunters and they're losing a million Dollars in revenue yeah because they cost $50,000 to shoot a lion. So all that money would go to conservation, hiring all the conservation agents and stopping poaching.

It's just a shitty system, really. I mean, it's a shitty system. It's because they're dangerous. They can't do it. Like in America, it's great. It's like, you know, when I buy my tag for Colorado, I buy it for $600. $550 goes straight to conservation. in America, it's great. It's like, you know, when I buy my tag for Colorado, I buy it for 600 bucks. Like 550 goes straight to conservation.

Yeah. And that's awesome. And that's why there's so many animals, you know. And that's a really healthy system of how to like increase populations, how to take care of habitat, how to hire more park rangers, how to buy more land and, you know, make bigger reservations and bigger conservation areas. I don't think people know that, though. They don't. Most people have no idea that most of the money that goes towards wildlife habitat, like maintaining habitat, all comes from hunters. Like 90%.

And then on top of that, there's a tax on sporting goods that goes to that. And people always say, well, hunting isn't conservation. But you know what? Here's the thing. Hunters and hunting products, whether it's bow hunting stuff or rifle stuff, they did not fight that tax. But you know who did fight that tax? All those other companies that make hiking stuff and REI and those companies, they didn't want a tax. So they've tried to impose another tax and these people have fought it off. And the reason they fought it off is because they don't have to pay it. They don't have to pay it. It's going to fuck with their

overhead. It's going to fuck with the amount of money that they have to charge for things. And so this idea that these hunters aren't real conservationists, they're using it as an excuse. The bottom line is that's where all the money's coming from. All of it for habitat protection, wetland habitat protection, all that comes from from hunters and it's a lot of money it's like if they stopped hunting if they made hunting illegal and they cut off that supply of revenue there's a lot of animals that would be fucked yeah there would be people don't like it because it's one of those weird kind of gray area things or it just doesn't make you feel comfortable thinking that the money that has come first of all The only reason why there's elk and all the habitats that they're at right now is because hunters introduced them to those areas

They were decimated by the turn of the 19th century or the 20th century So in the early 1900s, there was very few elk left in this country So the Rocky Mountain Elk Federation spent considerable amounts of money, resource, man hours, moving animals into these areas like Kentucky. Like Kentucky has like a huge elk population now. There was nothing there just 30, 40 years ago. Nothing. Zero. So they've figured out a way to not just maintain populations so hunters can kill them, but they've also reintroduced them to areas where they didn't exist before.

Well, increased populations by 100 times in a lot of states. I mean, the elk numbers have never been as high as they have been in the last 20 years. Yeah. No, it's amazing what they've done. And it's all because of hunters. And I understand it for people that are animal rights lovers, but I just wish they had a more balanced perspective and they understood what all the pieces that are in

place are. It's an uncomfortable thing for a lot of people to think that the people who want to hunt and kill and eat these animals are the ones that love them the most. Yeah. It's crazy thinking, right? Well, all the people that are super butthurt about the hunting thing aren't doing anything about it. Yeah. Well, they talk about it on Twitter.

Yeah, they're just being angry and lashing out with their phone. But they're not doing anything to save the animals. Those people aren't on the front lines in Africa trying to save the lions or the elephants or trying to go against poachers and do something about it. All those people are just chit-chatting, you know? Well, there's not enough money. I mean, if they really wanted to do the kind of work that the hunters are doing, they'd have to have some stream of revenue. And the stream of revenue that is coming from hunting is all coming from tags,

it's all coming from the sale of hunting gear and products, and there's just no way they can match that. There's no way. There's millions of hunters. Millions of hunters that are contributing literally a billion dollars. It's probably more than a billion dollars a year that goes to conservation. Yeah, I think so. And it's a weird, it's one of those weird things. It just doesn't, it seems like it should be cut and dry.

Well, and I think people have like a misconception about hunting in general. Like in most states, like say Colorado, the areas that I've hunted there, like on a do-it-yourself, over-the-counter tag, cost me like $550, $600. And I go there with my buddy. It's in an area that has a 7% success rate for archery or maybe less, 6% or 7%. So out of 100 hunters, maybe 6% or 7% people get an elk. So all these people are really just paying for the experience of elk hunting. It's not like they're going in there and buying an animal or nothing like that. It's like, I'm going to Colorado.

This is my trip for the year. I choose to go out and just hunt elk for two weeks or three weeks or one week or however long you have time. And that's what the hunting experience is all about for me. I mean, I love the meat. That's awesome. I love the successful hunt. That's great. For sure. I love eating it. But the bottom line is if I had to go elk hunting and don't get an elk, it's not an unsuccessful hunt. I'm so stoked. This is like the best experience ever. Yeah. It's a very enjoyable, deeply rewarding experience just to be out there trying and

attempting it. And when you are successful, it makes it that much more rewarding because you know how difficult it is. Yeah. Especially when you're doing it with a bow and arrow. Yeah. I mean, it is, you have to get within, I mean, if you're really fucking good, you could shoot something within 90 yards, but for the most part, you're trying to get somewhere within 30, 40 yards.

Yeah, that's right. What's the matter, Jamie? What is this? Oh, I got. Sportsmen contribute nearly $8 million every day, adding to more than $2.9 billion every year for conservation. Hunters and target shooters have paid $7.1 billion in excise taxes since the inception of the Pittman-Robertson Act in 1937. That's incredible. in 1937. That's incredible. Everybody in America knows about Cecil the lion. Everybody knows about Cecil.

Nobody knows that. Nobody. Only hunters know that. Yeah, I'm confused here. How does that work? It says, I get the $8 million every day contributing more than $2.9 billion every year for conservation, but this is what I don't understand. It says hunters and target shooters have paid $7.1 billion

in excise taxes. Just specifically that tax. Just specifically excise taxes. Okay. It's a shitload of money. Yeah. So it's tags and then equipment and taxes. So I guess the taxes is the billion, the $7.1 billion.

The rest of it is tags, which is $2.9 billion a year. It's amazing. It is amazing. But, again, it's the people that live in the cities that are disconnected, and I was one of them. I mean, if you talk to me, if you got a hold of me 20 years ago when I never even considered hunting, and you asked me about hunting, I'd be like, assholes, shooting an animal. Animals are awesome.

Bunch of pussies. Yeah. With their big guns. Meanwhile, I'd go buy dog food and cat food. I love animals. I'm buying ground up fucking chickens. Yeah, I love animals. I'm buying ground-up fucking chickens Yeah, yeah, I mean that's the funniest one is like vegans with cats Want more than 1.42 billion dollars through state hunting and fishing license. Wow, that's incredible

1.4 billion dollars in conservation comes from hunting and fishing license sales 608 million from other revenues 749 million through excise taxes, paid solely by sportsmen. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's where the money comes. And that money's not going to be replaced by people who love animals.

And that's also, there's a lot of people that think of hunters like the characters in a movie, like an Elmer Fudd, like some asshole who hates animals. But when you listen to like really good hunting podcasts, like there's this guy, Jay Scott, he's got a really good hunting podcast. And Cody Rich has Rich Outdoors. And Steve Rinella has the Meat Eater podcast, which is like my favorite. You're listening to really intelligent, really smart, well- well educated people that understand a lot about

Conservation the environment the animals they're pursuing and when they're talking about tactics and strategies and details and all the different different Areas that you're hunting all the different places where you're putting in for tags you realize like this is a complex System that they're trying to navigate in order to be successful it's fucking very very difficult and it's primal as fuck the whole thing is like it's a wild experience on like literally wild and many different levels yeah and just uh yeah i just i don't know i can't get enough of it no it's fine i swear like i, I feel like I, I, like I measure my success. Not so much now because my kids are like a family guy and, and that's basically all I care about is my kids these days. But, um, I swear, like I, it's, it's like, I measure my success by

how many days a year I spend in camouflage. Like that's how I know I had a super good year. Right. As if I went hunting a lot, I swear. It's like, and it's like and and like if i if i'm if i don't hunt for a while like my wife will call my friend and be like dude you got to take shane hunting he's being a dick you know he's being a total asshole and you need to take him honey so it's like you need to get your fix i know i just get grouchy and grumpy and i don't even really feel it coming on and my wife's like you need to get your fix i know i just get grouchy and grumpy and i don't even really feel it coming on and my wife's like you need to go hunting but what is it you think that's causing that it's like the i don't know is it is it something's causing it when you miss hunting not hunting yeah so hunting is alleviating that in some sort of a way yes and surfing i i do i've you know i need

to surf a lot and i need to hunt a lot. It's just who I am now. I'm a hunter just like I'm a surfer. It's not what I do. I feel like that's who I am. So it's just being a part of the natural world. The surfing thing is even though you're on a board that's made out of composite materials and you've got wax on it and all this jazz and it's all created by a factory yeah but there's something about your you're introducing your life or your your being into the natural world of the ocean yeah and you feel something like they say that the ocean has some sort of an electromagnetic

like feel to it like there's something about the ocean because it's essentially alive you know it has living things in it but there's oxygen in the water and that's that that's how these plants grow and when there's dead spots that's why these fish die like this it's almost like an it's not just like an ecosystem it's almost like a giant living thing yeah and you're swimming around in that thing sort of absorbing its life force and i feel like it just keeps you young i think it's like i swear like surfing a lot being in the sun being in the ocean a lot and not like sitting there frying yourself or anything like that but just like spending a life in the ocean and in the sun is just good for you i mean

i know people who are in their 50s and 60s and they're just healthy they look young they don't they don't have like tons of physical problems and um i. I don't know. I think it's good for you. I think spending time in the outdoors, whether you're in the mountains with your boat or whether you're in the ocean, doing whatever you're doing is just good. It's certainly good to be active. It's also absorbing vitamin D3 or creating vitamin D3 through the sun. That's a rare thing. And then coming home with organic grass-fed wild meat is even better, you know? Yeah. No, all those things are, I mean, you're living a very natural life in a lot of ways in that way, you know?

And, again, there's also the satisfaction element. Just like the people who grow a garden can kind of, and I have a garden, I get it. There's a connection. Like, if I grow some tomatoes and some kale and I put together a salad and I'm eating that salad, I'm like, I know. Not only do I know where this came from, I was there. I put the seeds in. I watered it. I fertilized.

Yeah. There's something deeply satisfying about making your own food that you grow or that you go and get as opposed to going to a supermarket. Well, and it takes a lot more effort too. Yeah. or that you go and get as opposed to going to a supermarket. Well, and it takes a lot more effort too. So you just have like, you know, like that elk steak that you eat. Like if you did a side by side comparison with someone who didn't hunt, you know, they may not feel the same way. But because you packed it out, you put all the time in on the target, you did all the hunting, you like looked forward to it for six months, that hunt. And it just, that's the best tasting steak you're ever going to have because

you have the pride of knowing that you did it all yourself. Yeah. It's certainly a very, very different feeling now living in Hawaii and, uh, being a white guy. What is that like? Cause people say weird things about it. I've never found Hawaiians to be racist or rude or weird, but I've heard crazy shit. And I've always wondered if that crazy shit is from rude Americans that come over there and are disrespectful or act like they own the place. There's a little bit of both. Yeah, there's a little bit of both. I mean, I was born and raised in Hawaii, so I saw a lot of this, you know, like in high school and, you know, like elementary school. Like if you're a white, like everybody wanted to be a Hawaiian when they were young, right?

Like everybody in my school, like if you're a white, you kind of wish you weren't. Really? That's kind of the deal. Yeah. When you're really young, especially back in the day, like it's like 70s and 80s, right? So like when I was a kid, there was this thing called Kill Howley Day. I'm not making it up. Oh my God. So you know what a Howley is, right? Yeah. White people. It's like as and 80s right so like uh when i was a kid there was this thing called kill howley day i'm not making it up oh my god so you know what howley is yeah white people white dude yeah so there was a thing it was called kill howley day and it was always the end of the year and it was

like i don't even know if they actually practiced it when i was a kid but it was still it was a thing and it was a thing where like hawaiians would be like you know this is it like we're almost out of school. Let's beat up some Hali's or whatever. Deal. And that's, I mean, it didn't really happen when I was a kid, but there was a thing called Kill Hali Day, and people would talk about it. But times have definitely changed.

And the other thing is, like, there's a huge difference between a white dude who was born in Hawaii and a white guy who moved to Hawaii. So if you're from Hawaii, like like born and raised in Hawaii is totally different than if you're a dude from Orange County that moved to Hawaii when you're 18 and then like next to you, you're trying to talk like the Hawaiians and stuff. That's when people freak.

That's when people lose it when a dude rolls up with the Hawaiian stickers on their truck and jumps out and is trying to act like a local dude. That's when guys get angry. That's not cool. So it's like a cultural appropriation thing. Yeah. It's just like, I don't know how to explain it, but it gets a little complicated. But if you show people respect, if you're chill, if you paddle out in the water at a localized break and you're mellow, you don't have a bunch of ding-dongs with you. If you paddle out by yourself and you show respect and you're mellow, then everyone gives you respect.

That's what I've always found. So the issue is disrespectful people in a lot of ways. Yeah. It's just different. It's like its own country. I've never been to Texas, but I hear it's like its own kind of place. Texas is definitely its own country. It's like, I've never been to Texas, but I hear it's like its own, its own kind of place. Texas is definitely its own country. If you, if you get off the plane at my house and you get like a convertible Mustang rent-a-car

and someone's going 45 and a 55 in a lifted truck, you don't pass them. You know what I mean? If you pass them, they'll chase you down and they will. Really? Oh yeah. That's just disrespectful. It's like, you're in Hawaii now, slow down. You know, don't, don't, don It's like, you're in Hawaii now. Slow down. You know?

Don't go 65 in a 55 in a convertible Mustang. It's like, they're just, it's just a strange place. It's like, it's, I don't know. It's just, it's its own kind of place, man. Well, it's occupied. I mean, it's sort of an occupied country. Yeah. It's like, they don't, they're part of the United States, you know, in quotes, in air quotes, but not really.

That's a country. Hawaiian people sailed there on sailing canoes from French Polynesia with stars for navigation. Yeah. They got there on their own. How far is that? Everything with them, it's, I don't know, it'd be 3,000 miles or something like that. What in the fuck? Yeah. They did that in a canoe. Yes. I don't even, it'd be 3,000 miles or something like that. What in the fuck? Yeah.

They did that in a canoe. Yes. I don't even like driving to Vegas. And like, hey guys, like we're out of here. We're actually, we're not just going on a cruise. We're moving. We're going to become Hawaiians. We're going to bring our babies.

Yep. Like you have kids. Imagine bringing your kid on a fucking canoe. So those people moved to Hawaii. They live there. They had their awesome system of the people in the mountains. They trade with the people at the beach for food and sustenance. And that's how they live. You know, there's the mountain people, there's the ocean people, and nobody owned any land.

There was no concept of owning land. People just shared and got along and they had their system that worked. You know, it was a gnarly time too was there was a lot of gnarly stuff that was going on it was like a radical time to live if you're if you did something bad you're you're executed and all kinds of crazy shit like back in the day but um you know when the white dudes showed up when captain cook showed up and the missionary showed up in their boats and they were trading a musket for like a hundred thousand acre ranch. You know, it was like shit got crazy in Hawaii. And you can feel that nowadays. I mean, there's a lot of Hawaiians are getting pushed out. You know, all these people live in different places on the mainland and make a bunch of money.

And then they retire in Hawaii because who wouldn't, right? Everybody wants to live in Hawaii. But they bring their money to Hawaii. It drives the value up. And then the Hawaiians can't live there anymore. They get pushed out to these areas that are less desirable that are you know and they can't make money in hawaii so there's a lot of resentment you know there's there's there's a lot there's a lot of there's a crazy dynamic in hawaii and and you feel that and i don't you know that'll never get taken away yeah how does that

work because uh well last time i was there i was looking at these properties that were on the beach i was like look at the size of this fucking place yeah this enormous house that someone built on this beach and someone was telling me yeah that's some ceo's jammy it's his house he's got a fucking helicopter pad and shit i was like okay how does that work so this guy like flies in and stays there sometimes and how the people around feel about that they're there for a week a year yeah and they spend five years building their house with like Italian granite that's flown in from Italy and, you know,

and it's like, guess who's swinging the hammers, right? Yeah, Hawaiians. Yeah. Yeah. And they have to drive there from like their little zone

or wherever, you know, wherever they're living. They definitely don't live in like a private community by the beach or the golf course. Well, and so how do people feel about those people that do that do they get upset at them are they angry not really i think they

understand i just think they they uh it's just a difficult situation you know it's like it's like a it's like a lot of places in america really yeah think about it it's not it's it's not that unusual the situation in hawaii it just seems odd because it's there's so many of these like multi-million dollar vacation estates that are by the beach and you like that's like some crazy fuck you CEO type money that you have to have to have one of these things yeah like how weird is it these people they come to this place and they occupy this spot but there's a bunch of people that have been here and their ancestors have been here for thousand plus years and this is kind of their area but you can buy a spot there and they work five days a week their whole life and they can't buy a house you know right and then the whole you

know the whole the whole runway where i live is filled with private jets just sitting there waiting really oh yeah people spend 50 million on their house like there's a there's every single one of those guys in the Fortune 500, all the CEOs, all the guys from every big, giant tech company. They all have houses where I live. They show up one week a year in their jet. That's so strange. Yeah, it's pretty wild. Do they break in when they're not there? No, they got top-notch security.

You'd think they wouldn't, dude. These are like tech guys. Roseanne Barr is a friend of mine. She lives there. Yeah, it's a cool place to live. I mean, people understand why those people want to live there. The weather's great. It's a beautiful place. No one's, no one's blaming them for living there. That's not the problem, but. So the problem is them being disrespectful to the people that do live there. And if you're

going to be there, relax. Yeah. It's Hawaii. Right. Don't be in a big rush. Don't overtake me. Don't drive like you live in LA. Don't drive like an asshole. This is not LA. Yeah. It's Hawaii right don't be in a big rush. Don't overtake me. Don't drive like you live in don't drive like an asshole This is not LA. Yeah, it's not you know, so just when you get to Hawaii just relax a little bit Well, I got that text you this morning the text that you sent me fuck LA traffic. That's all it said It's just you realize like this place is the exact opposite of the Big Island I mean this place is the exact opposite of the Big Island. I mean, this place is some strange sort of magnet for weirdos, and everybody's just getting sucked into this giant population center, and you try to get anywhere, even in the middle of the day.

I mean, you were here at noon, so you're driving around at 11 a.m. You'd feel 11 a.m., everybody's at work, no big deal. Jammed, bumper to bumper. You should go out at 11 a.m. Everybody's at work. No big deal. Jammed. Bumper to bumper. You should go out at four just so you want to kill yourself.

Just go, get on the 405 at four in the afternoon. You'd be like, what in the fuck is this? What is this? If you get on the 405 between

like 11 at night and four in the morning, you beat rush hour traffic. Yeah. If you don't. Maybe. If you, if you're, if it's light outside, it beat rush hour traffic yeah if you don't maybe if you if

you're if you if it's light outside yeah it's rush hour yeah straight up because i i drove just now from san diego to la i stopped in orange county get an mri but i it was rush hour traffic the whole way up there was just stop and go and it was like there was there was no accident there was no road construction there's nothing it's Well, sometimes you'll be in a bumper-to-bumper stop that's a mile long at 2 in the morning. Yeah. You're like, what the fuck? That ain't cool, man. What the fuck is this?

I don't know. That shit drives me crazy. Yeah. And then the parking and the street sweeping. They have these, like, the technology in places like Manhattan Beach and Hermosa Beach. They have, like, the parking meter dudes. They have a thing now where if the parking meter, if your money runs out, they get like a bing.

Like they know where you are and that your parking meter ran out and they can drive over there. Oh, so they just go right to it. So it's like hyper-efficient technology to give you tickets. Because imagine like the revenue, right? It's like sitting. But that's kind of what I was getting at. That just drives me nuts nuts that's kind of what i was getting at when i was asking about hawaii is like there's different kinds of weirdness there's a different kind of weirdness to live in there and then there's a weirdness to living here which is the overpopulation weirdness

and the the showbiz weirdness yeah like what do you prefer oh man you know i don't know i was born and raised in hawaii is you know i like the pace i like the i like that no one gives a shit which school my kids go to or what i drive no one judges me if i drive a shitty car or they right probably like you better the opposite yeah yeah and and uh i just i don't know i dig that it's it's people people people judge me on who i am as a person and what i do and how i i don't know i feel i feel just like it's a little bit more it's just a little bit more real i guess and just you know more down to earth where i live but i also don't live in like the you know i live in kind of a small town so it's like coffee farms and ranches, and it's pretty chill where I live, you know.

Yeah, that's the weirdest thing about the Big Island. I'm a big fan of the Big Island. I love visiting there. But one of the craziest things about it is there's so many different ecosystems in one island. You drive through this one area, it's like completely dry. It looks like a desert. Then you go into another area, it's constantly raining. It's like a tropical rainforest, like Hilo, like up in that area. Yeah, like a desert. Then you go into another area. It's constantly raining. It's like a tropical rainforest

like Hilo up in that area. Yeah, it's wild. I should look it up but the Big Island of Hawaii, there's all these climate zones and they always say that, I forget the exact numbers, but it's like out of

these certain climate zones throughout the world, the Big Island has 11 of the 13 or something like that whoa so like if you get in your car and drive for like two hours you'll go through like like if you just like happen to like go to sleep and wake up like 15 minutes later everything looks different go to sleep wake up 15 minutes later everything looks different again it's like it changes so much you know it's wild it's like lava feel and desert and like you know like a dry land forest and there's like it changes so much. You know, it's wild. It's like lava feel and desert and like a dry land forest. And there's like a rainforest and jungle. And it's just bizarre.

Well, that's the other thing about the Big Island is that there's sometimes snow there. Oh, yeah. We go snowboarding sometimes. What the fuck? Where's that? Yeah, we'll go up and like build a kicker and like launch off it and drink beer. That's what we do. When it was snow and I was in high school, we'll go up and build a kicker and launch off it and drink beer. That's what we'd do when it was snowing when I was in high school. We'd drive up there.

I try to go every year to the observatory, the Keck Observatory, when there's no moon so you can see the stars, just to freak myself out. Because I went once many years ago, and it just changed my world. Oh, yeah. The one experience changed the way. It was like literally being on a spaceship. It changed the way I just changed my world. Oh, yeah. The one experience changed the way, it was like literally being on a spaceship. It changed the way I looked at the world because for people who don't know, there's all these light diffusers,

these diffused light lamps all around the big island so that it doesn't give any light pollution to the Keck Observatory, which is one of the biggest telescopes in the continental United States, or it's not the continental United States, right? It's not technically, in the US. In the world, I think, even, the the continental United States, right? It's not technically. In the U.S. In the world, I think, even.

Yeah, there's crazy clarity and no light pollution there. It's beautiful. You go up there and you see every star. And it just seems like you're on a spaceship. It's like you're on a spaceship and you're looking through a portal. Yeah, that's what it looks like. That's literally what it looks like.

And it almost hurts your brain. It's like, is this up there all the time? Not to open a can. Yeah, that's what it looks like. That's incredible. That's literally what it looks like. Yeah. And it almost hurts your brain. It's like, is this up there all the time? Not to open a can of worms, but did you follow that whole telescope thing last year on the Big Island? Oh, about the construction? There's like the 30-meter telescope. That they were trying to do, and they said it was sacred land, so they couldn't build it.

Yeah. Well, explain that. See, you are up on it. That's it. I mean, the land where those telescopes are built, you know, it's considered sacred land by a lot of, I mean, basically like every single Hawaiian group that there is. Yeah. But there's like designated, there's a designated area within that sacred land that is designated for like astronomy and, know all that stuff so but they have like all these giant giant telescopes that are owned by different countries like china has theirs and the u.s has theirs and soviet union whatever whatever they like all these big countries span all these billions

of dollars to make their telescopes and there's some of them that are completely obsolete and they're not even being used anymore so instead of taking those four or five down that they're not even using anymore and building a new big one they just wanted to build a whole nother big one. So there was a lot, people were up in arms about it and it was going to be the largest building on the big island as well. So people were just up in arms about it. And, and there was all kinds of, um, you know, people got super activated and really started protesting the whole thing and blocking the road and people were getting arrested and all my friends were involved, and everybody was against it and protesting.

It was pretty wild. Because they just didn't want the construction to continue and make bigger things. So they felt it seems inefficient, right? It seems like they should be able to take down the old ones and put up a more modern one. Yeah. There was not really any Hawaiian groups that were against the technology and against the space exploration. It wasn't anything about that.

It was the fact that it was, they felt like they were being disrespected because it was sacred land. That was not meant to, you know, build giant observatories there. And the fact that there was all these ones that weren't being used. Jamie, is that in the front? It was crazy. Is that an alarm going off? Is it in the back? Happens around here all the time.

Yeah, anyway, it was a wild time. And it was weird because the construction company that was building it, they had the permit already. They had the financing already. And they had the Hawaiian government backing them. I thought it was over. I thought there was no way to stop the thing and it was amazing like people really got activated like throughout through social media and everybody just got up in arms about it everyone around the world knew about it and and they ended up stopping

it that's incredible it was incredible i wonder if that's a good thing or a bad thing because i i'm a big fan of space exploration i'm a big fan of what they find out with these telescopes yeah but it seems like if they have telescopes they're not using anymore, maybe it's just a financial issue where it would cost a lot of money to break them down and put a new one in the place, and it's not as financially efficient as starting a new one. Well, it's always one of those things where it's like, you know, in Hawaii, everything's sacred unless you have enough money. It's like America you know, in Hawaii, everything's sacred unless you have enough money. It's like America in that way.

It's like if you want that beachfront house, nope, you can't have it. Oh, you got enough money? No worries. You know, if you're willing to pay like crazy for it, yeah. So if you want to build an observatory on the big island, you can't do it. Unless you have enough money to put $100 million into the education system in Hawaii and grease all the right politicians and get it all through. A lot has to happen for one of those things to be built. And then the contracts, everyone's fighting over the building contracts

because it's going to cost $2.8 billion to build the thing. So there's a lot going on, a lot of crazy politics happening behind the scenes to get that space exploration happening so that's unfortunate yeah and you're i don't think there's more than a hundred thousand people on the whole island right yeah there's yeah there's more now how many how many people live on the island i think it's roughly between 150 and 200 000 now and how much when did that change it's just slowly going up a lot of people are moving there especially to the Kona side where I live there's a lot more people moving there like permanently man it looks like a dope place to live it's a it's a good place to live I mean it's it's

don't move there if you're listening to this we got enough people damn hollies are you one of those or you don't count as a holly no I'm just kidding are you one of those or you don't count as a Howley? No, I'm just kidding. Are you one of those? Do you ever get called one of those? Rarely, but I am a Howley. I have white skin, you know. But I was, I don't know. I mean, I feel like that's, I'm not from anywhere else. Right.

I'm not from New York City or from Afghanistan. But do you know how to talk pigeon? I know how to talk pigeon, yeah. Like if you were going to say something to Jane, you won't do it? Not going to do it right here on the Joe Rogan show. No, you won't do it. You won't do it. It's dangerous.

It's dangerous. It's like speaking Ebonics. Yeah. I don't speak pigeon, but when I'm having beers with, you know, when I'm at home and I'm a couple beers deep, then yeah, it starts like slipping out every now and then. But yeah. Oh, so it's something that you did when you were younger? A little bit, yeah.

Just to get along. Right. It's just, I don't know. It's very typical. Most local people speak Pidgin where I live. Yeah, BJ Penn was explaining it to me once. Yeah. And he was saying how you would say things.

Some people turn it on and off. Yeah. But I just speak normal English. Well, it's a cool sound it sounds cool it's interesting it's it's a very friendly sort of a fun it is way to a relaxed way my parents regal my parents were were uh would have killed me if i spoke oh really like in the house yeah it was not cool plus it's like yeah i don't know i i am a white guy so yeah it's not i am not like a you know i didn't grow up in a hawaiian family where everyone spoke pidgin so did your parents move there yeah my dad was from la my dad was from my dad was from this town he went to

hollywood high school surf malibu and he he raced cars and he was a stuntman he was a he was a stunt man for elvis because elvis couldn't swim what was a stuntman for Elvis because Elvis couldn't swim. What? Yeah. Elvis couldn't swim? Elvis couldn't swim. Hard to swim when we were on pills. You'd think that he'd float good because he's all bloated.

No kidding, right? That was fat Elvis. He was in his prime back then. Yeah, so my dad did a bunch of movies with him, like Blue Hawaii. He had a series of movies that were all filmed in Hawaii and Elvis couldn't swim. So my dad was the, was a stunt double for all those movies.

And they just decided to stay. And he, he just got sick of LA. Wow. And he hated the parking guys. No, I think he just, he went to Hawaii and fell in love with it.

He, he ended up like moving on, moving to Oahu and surfed and hung out and like met a bunch of like local people that he liked and he liked the lifestyle and how people were there and ended up moving to my, my, my mom, uh, went to college and, and she was from Ohio. And right when she graduated high school, she moved to Hawaii and went to UH. Well, I know, uh, doesn't Woody Harrelson live in Hawaii? Yeah. that's where all the best weed is. Really? Oh, yeah.

The best weed? Listen, if there's better weed than what I have, keep it the fuck away from me. Whoever's got better weed, stay away. You can't get any better. I hate when people say that. There's a lot of homies raising their hands around. People always want to say that. Like, someone said to me.

I'm just kidding. They were talking about Colorado weed. Is it basically legal? Basically legal. It's pretty casual where I live, I'm sure. But it's not. I hear. Like if somebody wanted to fuck with you, they could technically.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, that's the thing about like Colorado. Colorado's wide open. Yeah. It's just, there's nothing. You just can't.

You know? It's just legal. Yeah. And nobody can go to jail unless the feds come in and then you got like some, you don't want to fuck with Colorado people. There's a lot of guns in Colorado. That'd be a weird place for the feds come in and then you got like some, you don't want to fuck with Colorado people. There's a lot of guns in Colorado. That'd be a weird place for the feds to kind of invade. Yeah, there's a lot of people like that, like Woody Harrelson.

Guys like, I mean, I don't know Woody, but I have friends who know him on Maui and they say he's chill. He just likes the Hawaii lifestyle, you know, he likes to relax. Well, he's a very nice guy by all accounts. I ran into this couple the other day at the comedy store and they, uh, they moved from LA to Hawaii. They live in Maui now. And, um, the girl hates it and the dude loves it. It was interesting talking to them because the dude works at a resort there. He's like, it is the fucking best place in the world to live. Everybody's relaxed. It's super cool. The weather's amazing. It's beautiful. And the girl was like, I got to get the fuck out of here.

Yeah. So my wife moved from LA to Kona. She went to UCLA, and then she worked for Warner Brothers Television. Whoa. Yeah. So she was on the grind. Is that where you met her? You met her out here?

No, I met her in San Diego years ago, right when she graduated high school and started going to a little college there. And you're like, you're coming with me, high school and started going to like a little college there. And you're like, you're coming with me, woman. We're going to a rock in the middle of the ocean. Basically, yeah. I'm moving you to a volcano. Yeah. So she looks like a Hawaiian.

Actually, she's half Japanese. Oh, that's very beautiful. Convenient. So she looks like a local. So everyone thinks I am the Haole and she's a local girl. Oh. It's pretty funny. So they think you snagged up a good one.

I did. But they think you took one of theirs. Yeah, the local girls. Oh. So they think you snagged up a good one. I did. But they think you took one of theirs. Yeah, the local girls. So, so anyway, and, but it's funny because when I asked her to marry me and to move to Hawaii with me, it was like, look, like, like this is where I live. Like you're not from like, you're not really, she's not really from anywhere. She was like born on the East coast, like live all over the Midwest. Midwest. She moved a million different times. Her dad, for his work, was moving all over the place. I went to high school and college in California.

When she moved to Hawaii, she moved to L.A. and she was in the entertainment business. She went from 10th gear to 1st gear. She was a crazy downshift. She's like, yeah, it'll be fine. It'll be awesome. I'm like, I'll do whatever it takes. You're the right one. You got to move to Hawaii. We're going to do those, do this whole deal, the family, the life, the whole deal in Hawaii. But she moved there and melted down big time. Yeah. Oh yeah.

I had these terrifying moments where I thought I was going to have to move to LA. Whoa. Yeah. And I would have, I would have done anything for her. And, and I, and I told her, I'm like, Hey, the whole thing doesn't work out. And then, you know, I'll try to move to California. So what was the meltdown over? You know, just like, uh, her friends, her job, her life was all in LA, right? She left everything behind, sacrificed everything and moved to where I live, where my family is, my friends. And she didn't have any of that. And, you know, she had a hard time for a while.

But as soon as she met a couple friends, then it was all good. And now she couldn't pry her away from the place. Now she loves it where I live. So she's a local girl now. Wow, that's interesting. But it took a while. Until she got friends there, she was like the whole hawaii thing was on thin ice that's how it always is though with people you know when you move to a new place it's fucking

hard to be alone it's hard to be lonely it's lonely it's hard to meet people that you actually like too oh yeah especially if you're from la yeah you move to hawaii it's like you know she's she's not like a whole she's not like a local a local You know, there's like a typical local girl. And I don't want to get myself in hot water, but she wasn't one of those. She was, you know, she just had a hard time finding that first good friend. She was Californianized. Yes. Yeah.

Well, I would think that like activities, like for you, surfing, obviously you would meet other surfers. Bow hunting, you'd meet other bow hunters you'd find common ground you'd make some friends if you had to move to a place like that but if you don't have like a real obvious thing that you like to do that other people like to do as well i would say that would become a real issue it would it would because you know i think you feel like you lose your identity and that's no way to live no you don't you don't want to like move somewhere or live some life where you don't really know what's going on or don't know why you're doing what you're doing for me it would be super hard to not be around comedians yeah like i'm so used to being around fucked up people that make jokes

about everything and anything and comedians are just so unusual in like the way they behave yeah and you get used to them. Yeah. It becomes normal. You know, I'm used to being around the comedy store and places like that. And just the sharpness and the quickness and the pace that people's brains work in comedy or even just in L.A., just the pace of how quick people are thinking and talking and acting and being and living. how quick people are thinking and talking and acting and being and living. And then you go to a place like Hawaii, it takes most people like three or four or five days or a week to just chill the hell out and relax a little bit. Yeah.

Just unwind. Maybe unplug your phone. Just on vacation. Yeah. And that's why the whole like bow hunting thing, like how good does it feel to just unplug your phone? It feels good. Good.

Turn my phone off and leave it behind. And it's just awesome. Doesn't it also feel weird when you're in a place that has no signals? Like there's nothing going on. There's no phone signal. There's no Wi-Fi. It almost feels like the air feels different. It's the ultimate excuse, though, to why you can't get back to people because I'm terrible.

I hate the phone. I hate it with a passion. Text message? Fine. Email? Okay. Phone? No. Don't call me. Email, okay. Phone, no. Don't call me.

Oh, actual phone calls? Phone calls. Yeah. I will not answer. Some people are just way too into constantly interacting with people all the time. I want to communicate when I want to communicate. That's why text messages are so good. It's like you can text someone, and when they feel like it, they can answer.

Yeah. It's all good. No, text messages are really good in that way. I used to think text messages were stupid, now i think like phone calls are stupid for the most part same even email it's also you don't have enough time with people constantly being on their phone and constantly like being connected to things you don't have much time where there's reflection alone time relaxing time just thinking about shit yeah and you know and that's i think for me at least that's when i make a lot of my life decisions like where i want to go or

what direction i want to go when i'm alone and i can just think about what's going on what's what's bugging me about my life like this is too busy this is too much bullshit there's too much hassle i need to get the fuck away from that and when when I'm constantly on the grind, I don't think like that. I'm constantly on the grind. I'm like, all right, I got to juggle this. And then this is coming on and that's coming up next. And that's, what's appealing to me about a place like Hawaii is like, there's no juggling, man. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. It's a lot for most people though. You know, it's, it's, it's definitely different. It's definitely different. Yeah. Have you ever done a backcountry solo bow hunting trip?

Not solo, no. You have to. Yeah? You have to do it. I worry about fucking breaking my leg out in the middle of the forest. You have to do it. I have to break my leg? No.

No. Bring a sat phone. Oh, okay. Yeah, rent a sat phone. You get a sat phone rental. Boom. You got your sat phone. You can call phone rental boom you got your you got your sat phone you can call you can bring an e-per bring whatever safety stuff you want but right

do five day backcountry by yourself yeah where do you go when you do those i do them at home i do them at home in hawaii you know or i'll do it on lanai or do you go somewhere else i do it around my house where there's vast open spaces where I live so I can do it. You bring a tent? In a lot of other places, you kind of sort of can't do it. It's illegal or the areas aren't large enough to just really get out. But yeah, I do the tent, do the super ultralight thing. I bring my own water.

If there's water in the area, I'll bring a pump. Whole deal, ultralight bag, ultralight tent, ultralight, the whole, like all my sleeping gear. A lot of times I'll do the bivy thing where you hunt all day and then you sleep wherever it gets dark, you know, and that's the best. But just the, you know, what you were saying about like, you know, being alone to think finally, it's like, I don't know, like even, it's like we're so used to being entertained all the time.

Yeah. And that's something that like people are addicted to, like whether it's your phone or even like if me and you went hunting a lot of time, I'd be your entertainment or you'd be my entertainment, but when no one's entertaining you and you're by yourself and you're just out there and you're making your own fires and you're waking up and you're doing your own hunt and you're not relying on a guide or a friend or, okay, I'm going to hunt over there. You hunt over here and you're waking up and you're doing your own hunt and you're not relying on a guide or a friend or, okay, I'm going to hunt over there, you hunt over here, and you're just doing your own thing. And even if you're not even hunting, just being silent, you're not talking to yourself, so you're not talking to anybody.

You're not talking on your phone, you're not communicating with anyone. And after four or five days, I did this at home. I did a hunt where I left my house, had my wife drop me off, and I did this long walk over this giant mountain. Bad idea. But it was awesomely fun. And I camped out for like four days. And I ended up hurting my leg really bad.

I like pulled a muscle behind my knee. And I was planning on going back and having my wife pick me up again. And halfway there, and normally you have no service in this area it's like a black zone and so i hiked to an area where i just i found service and i couldn't walk back i was i was too screwed up my knee was too screwed up anyway i called my friend who had access to an rent to to a ranch at the very top of this ranch i could walk to it so it's like another day's walk and a whole day walking yeah with a fucked up leg yeah slowly walking and and i called him and i said hey you know can you pick me up on tuesday at the rent and he's like yeah i'm gonna be up there anyway i can come pick you up at the top and so he picks me up and after five days he

got out of the out of the car, and he was talking to me like, I'm talking to you, and it sounded like he was yelling at me. Oh, wow. Yeah, so weird. I was so used to, like, this silence that it sounded like he was yelling at me, and I was, like, staring at him. I must have been looking at him really weird.

It's like, but you got to do it. You got to be by yourself, totally alone with no communication for like at least three days. Just do it just for experience. Do you know what Adam Greentree is from Australia? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I was hunting with him just maybe a month ago. Oh, okay, cool. Well, he's a good buddy of mine.

We've been bear hunting before and hung out with him and camp and great guy hung out with him in australia when i was there for the ufc too he is a killer dude yeah he's a badass hunter he's a badass hunter he's just a badass dude but he was telling me that when he goes off to these trips because he does most of his hunt solo and that's like really he really weird he detaches and like himself. But he says he comes back after being out there for eight or nine days and he hasn't said a word in eight or nine days. And he says it just feels weird to talk to people. Yeah, yeah. It just feels weird to say words.

Yeah, it does. And it's cool, man. It puts a lot of shit in perspective about what you're planning on doing and, you know, the next 10 years or what's happening in your life or, you know, whatever it is, man. It's not, you know, not to get deep in here, but it's, it's a trip, man. It really is. I did, I did like, I did nine days by myself in Colorado, back country, do it yourself. Whoa. In a tent and it snowed for five of the days. Where'd you go?

Um, one time I went in, uh, kind of in the mountains near breckenridge and then another time i went um in a mountain range called the santa santa de cristo mountains it's in the southern part of the state in some steep shit some really gnarly stuff and hiked like eight miles back with my ultralight stuff whoa and i had hunted in that area with a buddy of mine from home um the year before and we planned on going again and then he kicked out last second because he couldn't make it so i was just like screw it i got a ticket i got a tag i'm going by myself so i rented a sat phone just in case and i went there and um like the second day i walked like eight miles back like as a bird flies right so it's like really long walk and uh but that's where the elk were meaning long walk for people look what was

that as the bird flies if you go in a straight line it's eight miles but you're going up and down and up and down so it's way more than that so i parked at like 8 500 feet and camped at 10 500 feet which is the highest water i could camp at right wow and the elk were at like 11 500 feet so it was a lot of hiking a lot of walking and just being by yourself and then and then the snow component for somebody from hawaii you know it's like it's snowing every day and i was cooking in my tent and eating and snowing and elk were coming in at night and screaming their guts out um then there was like a crazy like lightning storm and windstorm i had to i had to pack up my tent in the middle of night i thought it was gonna blow over i thought trees

gonna hit me i had to go into like a dense uh pine forest and reset up my tent in the middle of the night. I thought it was going to blow over. I thought trees were going to hit me. I had to go into like a dense pine forest and reset up my tent in the middle of the night during a lightning storm. Whoa. I had to call my wife in the middle of the night and like, you know, let her know exactly where I was just in case the shit hit the fan. Wow. But that type of stuff is, you know, a lot of bears in that area and lions and a lot of shit. So those type of experience, I never had those kinds of experiences before I started hunting ever. I never saw that, that kind of country. I never, I never put myself in those kinds of situations.

And, and until I found bow hunting, that's, that's the reason I was never like, I'm going to go hiking, not a hiker. I need to have like a purpose when I'm hiking. Right. So I'm basically like a, a hiker with a bow these days and and that's what gets me out to these kind of places and had the some of the best experiences my life just because i found bow hunting well those those woods and like where you're going these places where you're not going to run into any other people there's there's a feeling that you get from those those environments it's almost like a loneliness in a way like uh or almost like a

it's there's awe right because it's so beautiful and so incredible but it's also it's humbling in a bunch of different ways and one of the ways it's humbling is because this woods doesn't give a fuck about you yeah if you die it's like so what oh yeah grizzlies keep fucking eating elk keep having sex and screaming their heads off. Yeah. And birds keep flying and that's just how we've always done it, dude. Sorry you didn't make it. Yeah.

That's exactly right. It doesn't care. And you're alone, like alone, alone. Yeah. The dark night seems darker. Yeah. You know, the silence seems more silent. Oh, yeah.

Way more. You know, you get back to your tent and it's dark. Well, it's a big perspective enhancer. Yeah, it is. I went to Prince of Wales last year. We hunted on Prince of Wales Island outside of Alaska. It fucking rained every day. Yeah.

Just miserable every day. Bears? Moose? We were hunting deer. We were hunting sickle blacktail. Oh, very cool. But unsuccessful. We struck out.

But when we came back. I heard it's hard. It's real hard. There's not a lot of them. Where we were, we fucked up. We got to a place where they had already moved down towards the water. And we were up high. Were you with Cam on that hunt?

No, that was with Rinella. That was for the Meat Eater show. Yeah. But one of the things about it was that feeling of like almost like a sadness. Like so beautiful and gorgeous like it would rain every day but every now and then the sun would come up and when the sun would come up the sun would hit this incredible green it would just it was like illuminating like it was like it was lit up and um we get we got back after seven days of this or how many days were six days and everything in LA seems so nice.

It was so warm and beautiful and I just loved it. I was so happy. And I called Rinella up and I was like, dude, I don't think I've ever been happier in my life. Like I'm so happy. And it's because I was so miserable for those days. And that, that's another perspective enhancer to realize like you're so goddamn lucky you have a roof overhead and that you can listen to the radio in your car and that you could get around and it's easy and you can talk to people on your

phone. When you're out in just the woods woods, no cell phone service, no nothing. There's nothing. No Amazon packages coming to your house and like food delivery and nothing no pizza you can't order pizza there's fucking nothing man we brought some food with us and that is what we ate because we struck out and the cold man yeah and the wet the wet yeah until you've been head to toe soaking wet and your boots and your socks and your pants

and your rain gear and your everything is everything that's supposed to keep you warm and safe from the elements is soaked to the bone and it's getting cold that's gnarly well that's also where you appreciate really good gear too like merino wool that's right you know uh wool is a weird cloth in that like if you have cotton on and you get wet you're fucked but if you have wool on and you get wet the wool actually retains the heat so you could be wet and still warm yeah which is really unusual and hard for people to understand if you've never worn wool well that's when that i mean the the right gear you know there's a lot of hunts that really you don't really need the right gear for some hunting but in that backcountry stuff or in real steep mountains or stuff

where you have to walk far, if your shoes are wet and your socks are wet, you're going to get the gnarliest blisters and you won't be able to walk anywhere. That's why I'm really fascinated by companies like Kuyu that spend all this time developing the most technical gear, like the lightest weight the best at absorbing wind for their tents and and you know they go through great lengths to engineer their products to make sure that it's just i mean it's a giant company that just makes ultra light gear for hunting yeah it's kind of crazy that there's a company like that yeah but you can see why when you go on the backcountry hunt you don't have the right gear you you that's the last kind of hunting you're going to do like that and how it's like a

survival thing how'd you figure out like what stuff to bring and what stuff not to bring did you read up or did you do trial or error you know uh i right when i got into bow hunting i i got i got bored of of feeding pigs and having them come to my house and having them come to my tree stand. I got bored of that pretty quick. It was super fun at first, and I loved it. And it was, you know, really good learning, and it was a blast. You know, it's building tree stands by myself. But I super quickly got bored of that and wanted to do something else.

I wanted to go walk in the mountains all day long. And I ordered Cameron Haynes''s backcountry bow hunting book this is right when i started hunting i had no idea who cameron haynes was and i i just was geeking out on everything hunting and i i did some research found that book ordered it it changed my life i got like and it's funny because i told cameron that um i i told him that i got his book and it like fully inspired me i uh i ordered like the ultralight tent, the right one. I did all this research on which one to get, which one was lightest, which was the driest, which one was the best to cook in, which had the biggest vestibule. electrolyte plates and and forks and camps camp cups and um uh sleeping bags and a towel the the little towel that packs up tiny and the pillow that packs up tiny and the right backpack and

all that stuff so it's funny because that that you know when you're shaving ounces and it really adds up you know it's like a difference between like 80 pound pack and a 40 pound pack when you get if you get the right gear yeah jason harriston the owner of kuyu yeah he makes a uh spreadsheet yeah where he weighs every single thing he's he's bringing and he packs it up and he weighs like what's in each pack and what he needs for each and he has this like this excel spreadsheet yeah of all the different stuff and that's how seriously people take it, especially like sheep hunting and things on those lines. I got so geeked out on the ultralight thing that I started like looking at all

of like, like, um, like ultralight, um, ultralight hiking websites and like getting all the tips, like, like instead of just bringing like a little spork,

you know, one of those like little spork, the ultralight sporks, you'd cut your fork in half or even like in just one third. So you just had the fork, just the fork part. So like you, you, you would shave off those ounces of the rest of the fork. You'd just be the part where you just ate, you know, and your toothbrush, you cut it. So it was just the part that goes on your teeth.

Yeah. That's what Adam does. He was telling me he does that. Pretty funny. That's ridiculous. I'm a manly man. I, that's what Adam does. He was telling me he does that. Pretty funny. That's ridiculous. I'm a manly man. I can carry a fucking toothbrush handle. Yeah, it's funny though

because it all adds up. You don't think you need that much stuff to go on a backcountry hunt, but a lot of times you put every single thing you're going to put in that pack and it's a lot of stuff. Right.

And to shave those ounces down means then you can bring like a better tent, a better sleeping bag. Right. You can add up some more ounces on the other side. I'm a big eater, so I bring a lot of food yeah and water and you know now do you weigh out your food do you make sure that you have like intense like calorie dense food yeah what kind

of stuff do you bring with you when you go on a backcountry hunt of oh man stuff you get bored of quick. Like I bring like nuts, like macadamia nuts and almonds and pecans and cheese and jerky and stuff like that. Especially if there's water, that's a game changer. If there's water where you're going to be or even anywhere near where you're going to be, then I bring a stove every time with oatmeal and freeze-dried meals like Mountain House meals. Those are insane. Yeah. Do you ever try dehydrated? house meals those are insane yeah do you ever try uh dehydrated yeah those are the same ones yeah but there's dehydrated and freeze-dried the dehydrated

is apparently lighter yeah that's why people are uh gravitating towards dehydrated now gotcha those mountain house are so light i don't know how anyone anything could be lighter than that while you're shaving the handle off your toothbrush that's right maybe they take up less space too yeah i think that is what they're saying yeah it takes up less space yeah but there's certain certain things that i can't skimp on like food right but uh you know what's really good is when you like before i do a hunt like that i'll make like two panfuls of bacon and i'll make it all up and then i'll bring that and it's like that's my treat at lunch i'll have a couple pieces of bacon doesn Doesn't it go bad?

No, it kind of doesn't It doesn't Once you cook it it depends where you hunt also if you're hunting and more in Arizona in the summer and then maybe yeah or somewhere by the beach in Hawaii You probably go bad but in a normal hunt if your if your stuff doesn't get super hot. No, it's fine How long is cooked bacon last, you know, I got that idea, I think, from Cameron Haynes' book. Because they make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches with bacon in it. Oh, yeah. And so I would do that.

I don't know how long it lasts, but don't tell me if it's – but I'd bring it for like a five-day hunt, no worries. And eat bacon at least the first three days. Once you start getting diarrhea, then you cut back. Exactly. But what was I going to say? Oh, because, I don't know i just crave the fats yeah it's like i'm eating i'm eating all these nuts and bars yeah nuts and bars nuts and bars nuts and bars and all i want is fat like grease well when you're doing heavy duty climbing

and things along those lines and going up and down mountains that is what you crave yeah like you're not into carbohydrates you're into fats yeah your body's like we need something cowry dense oh yeah and then when i when i leave hunting when i leave the mountains like say i go to colorado and i hunt for a week and i'm like i lose 10 pounds and get all super skinny and like mountain man style i get out of there and i just want like a bacon double cheeseburger like a big giant not like the kind of the fast food place but like a big like a third pound burger with a ton of bacon on it with like blue cheese and avocados on it. Yeah. Just massive fat. And just go giant and just blow my, blow myself sky high with a giant thing of fries. And yeah, so that's, that's always what I crave. Well, the amount of

calories that you're burning when you're climbing up and down mountains all the time, it's insane. It's thousands of calories a day. You literally have to keep stuffing your face just to maintain your body mass. Yeah, you do. Well, if you were a person who is doing this on a regular basis, I mean, you would get really good at preparing for these things. So you must have like undergone like a transformation where you started off sort of kind of like trying to figure it out and then as you got better and better and better you got more and more streamlined in your approach like do you feel like you have it down to like a science now if you want to do something like that with what the actual backcountry hunt or the actual hunting well all the old stuff you're

packing your plan do you ever use google maps oh yeah that's pretty cool that you can do that on your phone these days yeah yeah it's amazing cool that you can do that now. It's incredible on your phone these days. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. Amazing. Well, what people do, if you don't know, they find an area, like say if you draw a tag for an area, you get an overhead, this is not for you, for people listening, obviously, but you get an overhead. Google Earth will give you, it'll show you where the peaks and valleys are. And it's amazing. It shows you the canyons, it shows you water sources, and you where the peaks and valleys are. And it's amazing. It shows you the canyons. It shows you water sources. And you see from a satellite image.

So you can literally see elk, like sometimes on Google Earth, which is incredible. Yeah. And you can really like, you know, you can get back to your camp much more, much quicker. Shave a lot of time, you know, don't get lost in the dark. You know, you can get to your water source way quicker and it's really efficient. don't get lost in a dark you know you can get to your water source way quicker and it's really efficient but then you need to bring batteries to for your phone or yeah or you know some solar panel but i haven't really found a super efficient solar panel that'll charge up your phone and your stuff that fast yeah especially when you're in the woods you're not getting a lot of sunlight

there it always seems like it doesn't work as good as you hope but yeah they're getting better at those things yeah they're getting i mean if you're in arizona you know and you're in this yeah of course yeah mule deer hunting in the desert yeah you got a great shot at charging up and you can leave it in one place for like a few hours just sitting there in the sun yeah for sure yeah but as far as the hunting goes like um you have gotten better at like the planning and the and the backcountry gear but that's all like i think you learn that pretty quick but you found out you like you find out if you're a shitty hunter right away because you come home with no meat all the time right yeah it's like it's very easy it's like it's like finding out if you're good at the stock market

you know right away you get that feedback you lose a bunch of money all the time right it's the same thing with bow hunting and that i love going hunting because i didn't grow up in a hunting family i have no background in it when i was young so i don't have like those like the instincts like that someone would have like that i have really good friends that grew up with a bow in their hand and their dad did and their grandpa did and their great grandpa did actually one family in particular but um they're so good at bow hunting i love bow hunting with those guys like guys like adam green tree um guys like my my buddy justin at home my friend jason uh on lanai who hunts axis deer they're like half deer half human they know how to hunt how to kill when to move how fast you can move how slow like when to slow down when to run it's just i love it i'm absolutely obsessed with

like trying to learn to get better at it now Now, have you taken any archery lessons? Have you ever like gone to like a, like, how did you learn how to shoot correctly? Um, I didn't, I learned how to shoot terribly. And then ever since I've been trying to correct it. So still now I, now I'll shoot with guys who are really good archers. Um, and they'll, they'll help me though. Um, so I've done a lot of work with that. But I still, like, my effective range is still, like, 50 yards.

I've tried for a long time. For 13 years? Yeah. That's cool. I've tried really hard. Now, when you practice, how far do you practice? I can kill a target. Right.

I can kill a target at 70. Right. No worries. But it's so different. Right. Like, guys like Cam say that to shoot 60, you should be shooting 120 all the time. Right. To be able to be effective at 60, you should be shooting 120 all the time. To be able to be effective at 60, you should be shooting 120.

Because of the pressure and the nerves. Yeah. There's a difference between a target and an animal. It's so totally different. It's also the way you shoot too, right? Do you use a trigger or are you using... I use a thumb release. So you're using back tension.

I use a lot of back tension, yeah. Right. And what kind of release are you using? I got target panic. Have you ever heard of that? Sure. Yeah, that's why I asked you. It sucks. Yeah. You don use a lot of back tension, yeah. Right. And what kind of release are you using? I got target panic. Have you ever heard of that? Sure. Yeah, that's why I asked you. It sucks.

Yeah. You don't want to not want to get that. But I hunted for years, and then recently my friend was filming, and as I would shoot, I would punch a trigger like crazy, and I didn't even realize I was doing it, and it got worse and worse to the point where I ended up giving my releases away and stopped hunting for about four months and all I did was go and shoot I put this target right outside my front door like a hanging bag target

and I would I'd walk up to it draw my bow like one foot away from it and just practice releasing over and over and over with your eyes closed with my eyes closed so I wouldn't focus on any aiming or anything it was like a psychology thing where you have to break down your break it down all down into like the perfect release. Yeah, that's called blind bail shooting for people who don't know. And what it is is impact bracing. Your mind gets used to the feeling

of the bow going off and so you brace for it. And when you do that, you start to develop these sort of patterns where you're anticipating the shot. That's crazy. And it can really fuck your head up. It really can.

And I couldn't, it got so bad to where i couldn't put my pin on the animal and my finger on the trigger without punching it i couldn't do both i had to put my finger my my my pin off the animal and then my finger could go on the trigger it was really weird it got extreme and then once the trigger or once the pin is near the animal then you just ah i get really nervous yeah it's really bizarre and this is weird because you're such a i mean you're a bad motherfucker you're dealing with giant waves and yeah you're you're fucking surfing 50 foot high waves if someone told me that was going to happen to me i would have just i would have bet my life savings against it i'm totally not that guy that like freaks out and like gets panicked out like stuff like that especially like a pin on a bow like yeah like what give me a break yeah and man i had to work through it i for a little while there's people

who like give up archery all together oh yeah super common yeah yeah um so i've read a lot about it because i'm terrified of it yeah don't even worry about it just just do your thing and keep hunting what you're doing but well i've learned how to shoot with back tension, so I get a surprise shot all the time. I don't use a trigger, but Cam just uses triggers, but he worked through it too. Everybody works through it. When you learned how to use a thumb trigger and use back tension, is it something you got from YouTube videos, or did you have someone show you how to do it? Yeah, I had a friend show me how to do it.

I have a, I have a really good friend from Spain. Um, his name is Pedro. I don't know if you know him. He's super, super cool. Oh, Pedro from Spain. Yeah, Pedro from Spain. No, I don't know all the guys. There's a, there's a few of them in Spain.

That's what I heard. There's a few Pedro's down there. A couple of Jose's too. Anyway, he's a badass bow hunter. Yeah. Badass. Yeah. And really good archer.

So he, so he, um, he suggested, you So he suggested a back tension release. Let me explain for people who have no idea what we're talking about. There's a type of release that has when you sort of set your thumb on it, but you don't squeeze it with your thumb. Most people aren't even going to know what a release is. It's something that connects to the string on your bow. It actually connects to what's called a D-loop, which connects to the string. There you it actually connects to what's called a d loop which connects to the string there you go there's a bunch of well those are back tension releases well those are like real back tension releases where very few

people ever use those for hunting but uh like what what kind of release to use what brand i use i think it's a carter release yeah i do too i use a carter but it's mainly back tension like i'll like i'll yeah exactly like that like i'll put my thumb around the trigger and then I'll just keep pulling until it goes off. Right. It goes off when you never know when it's going off. So because of that, you're not anticipating it. But it keeps coming back. Like in a situation where I'm hunting, when I'm 25 yards and I get full draw on a deer and it's perfectly broadside, I have this overwhelming feeling like it wants to move and I'll then now I've like sort of like trained myself to like

slowly squeeze, squeeze and pull. So that makes it go quicker. They say you should have like a mantra as in your head as well, that you should have a bunch of things that you say, like line it up and release the arrow. Like that you have to have like some sort of a thing that you put in your head. You probably wouldn't, shouldn't say release the arrow. What's yours? Execute the arrow. You have to have some sort of a thing that you put in your head. You probably shouldn't say release the arrow. What's yours? Execute the shot. Do you have one?

Yeah, line it up and execute the shot. That's what I say. Line it up, execute the shot. You know what I do? Stay calm, too. That's the other one I say. Stay calm. That's a good one.

Breathe. Yeah. Breathe. I do a thing where I spell lock. So as I'm settling, you know, I get to full draw, I get my anchor, I start settling the pin and I look at my bubble level. And once my little checklist is online and I'm on the animal, as soon as I feel like my pin starts to relax and steady

I spell the word lock and squeeze at the same time oh I like that I might steal that you know what else you're going to like my friend Jeff who basically taught me how to bow hunt Jeff Lee the guy's a legend he's awesome he

he told me that when he has the full draw right before he pulls the trigger, he says, you're going to die, motherfucker. Whoa, that's deep. I don't know if I like that one. But he told me, but he's not like that. He's not like that. Like you would never think that.

He's not like a, he's totally not bloodthirsty. He's a super ethical hunter. He just goes, man, it's a psychological thing. He goes, if you are hoping you're going to hit that animal, when that arrow goes off, if you're hoping, you're not going to hit him. You're not going to kill him. It's not going to be an efficient ethical shot. But he goes, if you truly believe that you're there to kill that animal,

and that animal's going to die right then, it's a huge piece of the puzzle. Yeah. There's a website called Iron Mind Hunting. Have you ever heard of this this guy i think i forget his name joel something or another but he um he suffered through target panic himself and he's a SWAT guy yeah and a police officer and developed like a whole system understanding the impact bracing and a whole system that i haven't i haven't read it he's got a book on it and he's got there it is um and he's got joel turner and he's got a whole system that I haven't I haven't read it. He's got a book on it, and he's got there it is

And he's got Joel Turner, and he's got a whole website dedicated to Controlling target panic and develop a system. Yeah, I have to check it out, too And it's one of those things where you know no matter how long you've been doing it It's possible that this shit could creep into your brain Which is weird like people have been successful hunting for years and years and then all of a sudden they get target panic and they're fucked almost everybody you you you meet who's bow hunted for a couple decades has had it yeah almost everybody everybody from randy ulmer to to everybody yeah randy ulmer has a couple of good videos on how to handle it too and he he says you should use a back tension release to get

used to it and, or a hinge release. And what that is for the people don't understand what we're talking about. There's another type of release that doesn't have a trigger at all. And what you do is you draw back and just by moving your hand, you're sort of curling your pinky down and making a fist. It goes off, but you never know when it's going off yeah it goes off completely uh unanticipated and that helps you deal with this this tension issue this uh this fucking mind fuck yeah but i i got over the hump and i'm back you're back i've had a good 2016 so far yes feels good right i i it feels good dude as i was panicking about the panic for a while, and this year started off good. I've done

quite a bit of hunting. I went hunting for fallow deer with Remy in New Zealand and had just an absolute ball. Killed a great buck. I saw some pictures. Really cool terrain. You're using that crazy quivalizer thing too, right? Where it's a stabilizer and a quivalizer. I tried that for a while, but it kept

getting loose on me. Oh, really? Yeah, it was wiggling around too much i didn't have that problem tighten it down too much and it worked really good for that hunt that specific hunt but we hunted in this awesome terrain with this crazy rocks and cliffs there was not one bush there was no bushes there there's no trees in this area it was just like you had to use the you had to use the you know the rocky the rocky outcroppings and just the basic terrain features to get close. And we ended up sneaking down on this bedded group of deer that was at the base of this cliff. Go to Ben O'Brien's Instagram. What is his Instagram?

It was such a steep downhill shot that I had to like, you know, when you're shooting downhill, you got to bend at the waist. You can't just aim down. Right. You'll miss. Right. And so I had to remember all that stuff in the moment. It was just a really technical shot and a technical stock. It was really a lot of fun.

Well, Ben took a photo. The reason why I said go to Ben's Instagram, because he took it. It's Benny O'Brie or something like that. He has a photo of you doing it where it literally looks like you're shooting from the top of a building down to the first floor. Yeah. Yeah, it's a crazy picture. Yeah, and that's the kind of practice that you never do. Right.

A lot of people don't set their target at the bottom of a cliff and stand at the top. And it's really different. Or shooting up either. Yeah. Either one of those. It's a super different type of shot. But that was a lot of fun, and I've done some really good hunts i did one with rami in new zealand i did one with adam green tree in eastern australia um and what did you guys hunt in australia we hunted an area that had um

fallow deer mainly there was a couple red stags around too um but that was a ball we had a lot a lot of fun he's trying to get me to go hunt water buffals with him. I'm like, fuck you. He's been trying to get me to do that too. These things are giant. They're just giant fucking murderous beasts. Yeah. That's not the part. To me is the, I love hunting like in the mountains where it's cold and beautiful.

And I'm looking at a big valley or over the ocean in Hawaii where you can see like the ocean, the white caps and boats going by. Like just beautiful, right? Beautiful wilderness. And where those bulls live, it's like 50 million flies on you and mosquitoes and a swamp. And it's like there's snake and snakes and slugs and spiders. How about crocodiles? And it's 100 degrees and crocs.

Yeah. And it's, man, it's like I turn into a little pussy when it comes to those kind of conditions. I turn into a little pussy when I look at pictures of it. Yeah. He's like, you got to come do the buff thing, mate. You got to come do it, mate. And I'm like, sure thing. I will for sure.

Good luck with all that. No. Him and Cam Haynes went. They brought no food. Yeah. And they brought no water. They said, mate, we're going to do it the right way. So they go out there and they were bathing in this fucking lake that they didn't realize had crocodiles in it.

So they were in up to their neck, cooling themselves off. And then later on found out that crocodiles had slipped into this lake. So they easily could have gotten eaten. Yeah. I mean, these are some of the biggest fucking crocodiles in the world that live right there. Fuck that. I was hunting with another buddy in Australia and we were hunting in an area that had crocodiles. And every day we had to cross a couple of little areas that had water.

And I just, I didn't even think about it because I'm not like, I'm not around crocodiles, right? And he just, after the first day, he didn't really worry about it too much. After we crossed, he goes, hey, if I'm not with you tomorrow and you cross here, make sure you throw a bunch of rocks in the water right there to make sure there's no crocodiles. Because if a human passes by an area where there's crocodiles over and over and over, they pattern them and they will sit there and wait for that human to cross again and get you oh so they're super intelligent hunters so that's what they do like they actually wait for like whether it's a rabbit going by every day or human or whatever it is a dog a cat and they will sit there and wait

just underwater and when you go by that's when they strike so such an efficient animal too the fact that they could just stay underwater for hours without breathing, they slow their heart rate down to like a beat a minute or something stupid. There's a place in northwestern Australia where the waves are really good. And in that area, there's a ton, a ton of great whites, tiger sharks, and ocean saltwater crocodiles. That swim in the ocean. Yes. For miles. They swim out for miles. Yeah, and they fight the sharks. That swim in the ocean. Yes. For miles. They swim out for miles.

Yeah, and they fight the sharks. Fuck them. Yeah. Fuck everything. Fuck that whole place. God, that's so crazy. Yeah. They swim.

Imagine being in the fucking water in a canoe and you're looking over and there's something bigger than your canoe and it's a dinosaur. Yeah. And it's swimming in the water. Yeah, and it wants to kill you. It's hungry. Oh, my God. Crazy, huh? Australia is a wild ass place man it really is beautiful and crazy and wild it seems like new zealand's a better spot though new zealand doesn't have any of that stuff like

that's what i'm talking about and i'm from a place like new zealand right i'm from hawaii there's no snakes yeah we don't have deadly spiders or anything like that and when i go to australia hey i get so freaked out about the snakes so freaked out oh they have those brown snakes that kill you instantly i almost stepped on one of those ah fuck i literally fuck you adam green tree why are you trying to get me to come to your house my foot was my foot was up my left foot was up i remember i was walking like through this this grass called tussock and it was in and – and Adam was like, you're never going to see a snake at this time of year. It's like wintertime, right?

So they're all down, whatever they're doing. They're hibernating, right? And so I'm walking by myself, of course. And I almost put my foot down and I looked down and it was a coiled up brown snake. And he was out like sunning himself and I almost stepped right on him. One of those red-bellied black snakes, that thing crawled right past me one day. I was with my other buddy and he goes, you're never going to see any snakes. I never see any snakes around here.

First afternoon, I swear to God, the first afternoon I ever hunted in Australia, this guy just told me you never see a snake. Like an hour into our hunt, maybe less, he goes, don't move. There's a deer. There's a deer there's a deer mate so i just stop of course right i didn't even say a word i was like looking around for the deer side side eyeing it you know trying not to say a word trying to be completely still and he goes okay now look down i looked down and this giant snake had just passed me

completely deadly so he said don't move Just cause he didn't want you freaking out Cause the snake was there If he would've said a snake I would've flipped Ah Yeah But he goes There's a deer

And he knew That's it Yeah that's it Red bellied black snake That thing looks awesome I'd like to make a belt out of one of those fucks Yeah There's plenty in Australia

You can bow hunt Can you make a belt Oh yeah Probably make a pair of boots to go with it Are they that big No We can shoot a few of them you shoot all you want please i give you permission to go australia and shoot them all

well that's the thing about australia is like you can kind of just shoot animals constantly they have so many snakes yeah no one's gonna be bummed out you shoot a snake god damn what a beautiful looking creature they are incredibly beautiful creatures. They're so shiny. I saw like a 10 foot python too hunting there. Really scary. They have pythons? I am so freaked out about snakes. They have giant pythons. Giant, giant pythons.

I saw one that was like 10 feet long. And my buddy almost stepped right on him too. What is that? And we were stalking deer. We were stalking right next to these giant bucks. And there was a giant 10 foot snake right next to it. How fat was it? As fat as my forearm.

Jesus Christ. That's so fucking big. I was running with my dogs once in the hills. And we ran over what I thought was a log. And they just ran right over it. I ran over it. And then as my foot is passing over,'m like i go oh fuck that's a giant rattlesnake it was a huge rattlesnake like literally i mean not quite as big as my

upper forearm but definitely as big as my wrist yeah and it was easily seven feet was that here by your house yeah right over here yeah they're fucking there's a few of them up here that are big as shit it was huge big ass diamond head you know big ass triangle head i was like look at the size of this fucking thing and i'm like defenseless and like like mentally defenseless because i i don't even know i don't know how to react to snakes i don't know what to do i don't know where they live i don't know what they hide under usually i don't right i don't have any snake background so right i'm not like looking oh no thank you giant rattlesnake kill look at the size of this one.

This one's like fucking 12 feet long. Yeah. Where'd this guy kill this thing? Mexico, it looks like. Oh my God. Look how fat it is. 30 yard shot guaranteed. I would definitely take it all day long.

If that thing was 30 yards away, I'd smoke it. With expandables, right? Yes, most definitely. You got to use like a rage. Yeah, rage. Do you use a fixed head broadhead or do you use expandables? Look at the size of that one. Jesus Christ.

That's bigger than the one I've ran over. Yeah. At least semi. That's a big ass snake. That's huge. No thanks. Yeah. I use fixed heads mainly.

Yeah. Yeah. I use like these little VPA heads. Vantage Point Archery makes these like little two bladed, same ones that Adam uses. But they're all machined out of one piece of steel. So they're, they're very strong. They're very like, they're just super reliable heads and they fly well. Yeah.

That's a big debate in the archery world. Expandable broad heads versus fixed head. What we're talking about folks is like expandables as they go in, these blades open up on the side. They're like a mechanical blade but sometimes they fail and they break off when they hit ribs and stuff like that and they're they're there's some animals that they're better on i think but i've used rages a bit and and i've had really good luck with them actually i've had friends that were like oh man i i can't do the rage thing anymore but i've had super good luck with them. Well, they're making hybrids now too.

Like Muzzy makes a hybrid and then there's those grave diggers where it's a fixed head blade and then two other blades open up behind it, which is actually probably even better than just a regular fixed blade. It totally depends on what you're hunting too, because like where I live, I hunt axis deer. Axis deer were brought from Sri Lanka. Are they really? From Sri Lanka were brought from Sri Lanka. Oh, really? From Sri Lanka? Yeah. Sri Lanka and India. So they're like an Asian deer.

And their main predator is in like Borneo and where they're from in all those countries there was the Bengal tiger. So if you look up the history of axis deer, its main predator for thousands of years was Bengal tiger. Wow. So they have like a vertical leap, like a crazy vertical leap. And they run like super fast and they always jump your arrow, right? They always jump the string. So when they jump the string, do you aim low so they duck down? You catch them when they're ducking down?

You have to aim super low. And if they're alert, most of the time you aim off their body. So if they don't see you and they don't see you release your arrow do you still aim low i aim low because the sound just the sound makes them react down they react like super super hyper fast so what what i don't the reason i brought it up is because those mechanicals are really good especially on axis deer because um even if you make a perfect shot like if you're just an incredible archer like someone like karen haynes you're 40 yards you're just rock solid not nervous you make the perfect shot that animal could be completely spin around into 180 and you hit him

in the other side or you hit him and you know you can make a gut shot even though you made a perfect shot just because they move so in those kind of situations i think a you know a big expandable is is really good you know because if you hit them badly those those things cut giant holes you know yeah they cut giant holes cam shot a bear with uh one of those grave diggers it's one of those hybrid blades what has a large fixed blade but then it has these two really big expandables that go to an inch and three quarters and And it just opened up a shot like a.300 Win Mag. It was a huge hole in the deer. I mean, in the bear, rather.

And they still get the crazy penetration. Yeah. Well, he's shooting 80 pounds, too, with those really thin FMJ Deep Six injection arrows. What kind of bow are you shooting with? I shoot a Matthews Halon 6. Oh, those are great posts yeah that's what ben has same very quiet yeah silent so the six is the one with the six inch brace height which is so it's a little jumpy right it's like that turbo cam yeah they have a five a six and a seven i believe so the five is like the jump you know the fastest one right it's probably not as easy to shoot yeah so like with all speed bows, I think the shorter the brace height, the faster they go.

But they're, you know, my understanding is, and I'm not, like, the super archer guy, but my understanding is the longer the brace height in general, the more forgiving the bow is to shoot. We just got in this technical geek talk. People in their cars right now going, what the fuck are they talking about? We're fast- talking about to the next

subject yeah we i geek out on bows man i geek out on uh all sorts of gear i'm just i'm a fan of uh all the like the little tiny things that make a difference yeah and you should all up yeah i should avoid they make good bows yeah yeah yeah i should have good defiant carbon defiant yeah 80 pounds it's a fucking flamethrower man man. Yeah, no kidding. I love it They fling some arrows out fast. Yeah, um, i'm just so obsessed with it. I practice almost too much I really have a real issue. We were talking about the new studio that we're setting up where it has a 50 yard indoor range It's like one of the reasons why I got it coming back over next time Yeah, um, so. You have to.

So do you have anything planned that you're really looking forward to? Any big hunts that you're planning? I have nothing to promote on the show. No, no, no. Doesn't everybody come on, like have a book coming out or a movie? If they do, that's cool. If they don't, that's better. It's not bad one way or another. I'll be at the thing tonight.

Yeah, well, that's fine too. But I just wanted to talk to you about both things. I do. I do have a lot coming up. I have some rad surf trips. I surf for a company called Billabong. That's my major sponsor. They make clothes and wet suits.

Got a t-shirt on right now. Yeah. So I ride, I've ridden for them forever and they're awesome. But they have a really good amateur team. Like they're, you know, they're best youngest amateurs from around the world to ride for Billabong. They activate them and take them on a couple trips a year so they're taking them to bali and so i'm going to bali to go and help like mentor them surf with them help train them and help get them ready for like the next step right so i'm bringing my son my son is

nine he likes to surf um so i'm actually going to go to bali this is the first time this ever happened i'm going to go to bali for is the first time this ever happened i'm going to go to bali for like a work trip which i do that pretty often and go go on these surf trips that are really a work trip um but now i get to bring my son because he likes to surf which is really really cool wow yeah that's badass yeah so he my my son now that he he likes a skateboard he's a little skater rat um and i tried i was i hoped that he'd be into surfing you know because that's what i love to do and now he likes to surf i'm just so stoked and now i'm taking him to bali so do you think he's gonna try bow hunting he already bow hunts really he's nine and he bow hunts yeah

has he been successful yes whoa what does he shot boars whoa you're a nine-year-old kid and you kill a wild boar now i'll text you some pictures he's savage too he looks he got really long hair and he's in the photo with the boys all this face paint on his face and he's got his he's got his little badass bow right there his arrows all pass through wow he shot three now and that's incredible what is what what kind of bow is he shooting he shoots he shoots 30 pounds right now because he's tiny. Yeah, he's nine. He's nine, but he's small. He's a small nine. He's small. It's pretty fucking strong for a little kid to shoot 30 pounds.

He's super strong. Do you have him lifting weights? He's ripped. Really? No, he's dead serious. He's ripped. He's got a six pack. He's never stopped moving. He's got a lot of energy.

He's one of those kids. Right. He's at skate camp right now up at Woodward West. Wow. So I dropped him off at Woodward West. Wow. So I dropped him off at Woodward West, and I got some work to do in Southern California here. So he's at skate camp hanging out. You were saying there's something wrong with your back? Yeah.

What's going on? I don't know. That's what I'm doing here. I'm just, I mean, I had to get an MRI this morning. I kind of just tweaked my back like about nine months ago, and it was really bad. I was doing a workout, and it hurt it it what part of your back my lower back yeah i got a machine in the back i want to show you what's we're done here is it a reverse hyper yeah yeah yeah you know what it yeah it's good have you heard of them before yeah i've used them a little bit oh really yeah they're the shit

they're really good if you can if you have a place for them, you should get it. It's a fucking phenomenal piece of machinery. So I got really into CrossFit. So I was using the reverse hyper a lot. Yeah, it's good. So is this before or after the injury? Like before and after. Yeah? Yeah. Does it help at all?

Reverse hyper helps, yeah. It helps stretch me out and loosen it up. There's also some, we have some decompression stuff in the back, some different spinal decompression things that I could show you that'll help. I'm kind of an expert now in healing up back injuries. Oh, yeah? I had a pretty severe bulging disc issue from jiu-jitsu that made my hands numb. Wow.

Yeah, but now it's gone. It's completely gone. That's crazy. Yeah, I don't have any bulge at all. I had an MRI. It's clean. I've never had back issues. And like nine months ago, I was training.

The thing that happened, I think the thing that happened is I was training like really pretty seriously for like I got really into it. I got really excited about it and just loved training. It was like one of those things I just love to do. So I trained like five days a week. I got really like muscular throughout my hips and my quads and my core. And just got super, super developed. My muscles got like cables. And then I had like a five-month period of time where I was just traveling out of the country for like five months.

And I just couldn't do the same kind of workouts. I was doing these really mellow workouts and kind of not working out too much and then i got home and i had like a month to get ready for winter and so i was like you know i'm gonna ease back into the workout thing and the first workout i did my body just got pissed just locked up so you tried to go just a little too hard a little too quick i was trying to go really mellow but i was going relatively mellow compared to what i was doing before. But my body just was like, I don't know. It just was pissed. Do you ever fuck with yoga?

I love yoga. I do. I really like it. I just, the yoga classes around my house are never at the right time and I don't do it by myself. Just get a DVD. I know. Or YouTube, man. There's a lot of videos on YouTube.

I know, I need to do that. That's, man, that's been a saving grace for me. It's been a big help. And also, there's a lot of yoga exercises that I need to do that. Man, that's been a saving grace for me. It's been a big help. And also, there's a lot of yoga exercises that I didn't even realize before I did it. They act as a spinal decompression. They stretch you out. You feel your back pop, pop, pop as you're doing some of the stretches.

I actually really love yoga. It's fucking awesome, man. I go to yoga classes. My wife's super into yoga. It's one of those things, though, like for a dude, especially a manly surfer, bow hunting type dude, you tell people, yeah, I go to yoga classes. My wife's super into yoga. It's one of those things though Like for a dude, especially a manly surfer bow hunting type, dude. Tell people. Yeah, I'm really into yoga Oh, what are you sucking dicks over there in that yoga class there? It's like it's one of those it's it seems like a Thing or well, you're a bow hunter and you serve on 50 foot waves. Yeah on paper. You're a pretty fucking macho dude, fella Yeah, no, I but if you if you talk to anybody who knew me, well, they wouldn't they would're a pretty fucking macho dude fella yeah no i but if you if you talk

to anybody who knew me well they wouldn't they would never describe me as macho well i don't mean macho like a in a dumb way i have no problem walking in a yoga class is what i'm of course you don't but saying it like saying yoga to people i'm not saying obviously i don't have a problem with it i do it all the time but i'm saying there's a sort of a preconceived notion yeah about yoga that it's like it's not a hard thing to do it's not like a manly thing but it's one of the most difficult things to do that i have ever done that kicks your ass fuck yeah especially hot yoga yeah it does it's unbelievable how difficult it is my wife does this stuff called booty yoga have you ever heard that booty yoga i like it already yoga it's like yoga I like it. It's like yoga. She's going to kill me. Yoga slash kind of like semi-like twerking.

But it's like a dance yoga. It's like high energy, but like crazy yoga poses. But it's like gnarly cardio too. And the girl Jen who teaches the class is badass. And it's the gnarliest workout. I've never done it. Okay. I was asking you.

I'm too macho for that. For booty yoga. Yes. Yes. See, I knew it. I knew it. I couldn't. What is this?

This is booty yoga. Jamie found it already. So this girl. See, I knew it. I knew it. I couldn't. What is this? This is booty yoga. Jamie found it already. So this girl's throwing like a back kick. Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about. That's definitely not what I'm talking about. Yeah. Well, I think everybody. I don't think booty yoga has an official designation.

So I think a lot of people call their stuff booty yoga. But the class that my wife does, it will kick your ass. It's like really high energy. It's really crazy cardio. and it's yoga too. And there's twerking. There's a little bit. Are there dudes in that class? And I think they play like Lil Wayne and like the gangster rap and they just go off.

They get nuts. There it is. Yeah, that's probably more. Oh, Jesus Christ. My wife's much hotter than her. Booty yoga with twerking plus little way music equals I'm out. Hey, anything that keeps the missus

in shape and nice and tight, I'm a giant fan of that. For them, yeah. It's awesome for them. I am all about it. Yeah, if girls want to do this all day. Absolutely all about it. I'm a big fan of what she's doing here in this video. I don't see any downside. I don't see anything. I'm agreeing with you 100%. Well, listen,

man, thank you very much for coming here. I really appreciate it. And Shane's got a Twitter, but he doesn't use it, so if you see him, say hi. I got an Instagram that I use. That's the only one. And what is the Instagram? Instagram is Shane Dorian. S-H-A-N-E-D-O-R-I-A-N.

Well, thanks for coming in, man. I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed talking to you. Yeah, it was fun. All right, folks. We'll be back in a little bit with Ari Shaffir. Bye. That was fun.