The Joe Rogan Experience - #815 - Cameron Hanes

Episode Date: June 28, 2016

Cameron Hanes is a bowhunting athlete, “training intensively each and every day to become the Ultimate Predator.”

We're back, world. I used to say America, but foreign people get upset. Poor bastards living in other countries. Sad enough, they can't be graced on our patch of dirt. I just had to explain to Cameron Haynes that when your iPhone, when you use a bunch of apps, you double-click on that bottom button, and then it shows you all the apps that are running in the background. Most people don't know this. Most people just use their phone.

Right. But that's a fucking resource robber right there, buddy. Yeah. You got to be careful. I learned something today. Yeah. I have to show people things. Thank you.

When I'm showing you tech tips, you know you're tech retarded. I'm a little behind the curve. So what's happening, brother? How are you feeling, man? You just ran 100 miles like a week ago. Yeah, I did. It was about a week ago, right? It was, yeah.

It was last Saturday and Sunday, so Father's Day. All in preparation for a 200-mile run in August. That's right. God damn, dude. Yeah. We were talking about it today, like the mental games that your brain starts playing on you yeah and you were describing all the shit that your brain starts doing to you while you're running yeah i was there's so many peaks and valleys when you push yourself like that and it's uh

you know i was thinking about all the ways i could quit, how I could come up with an excuse to how I could get out of this race. And really, I could say anything because who's going to ever question it? Because it's like, okay, how many people have ever run for 24 straight hours, right? So you can't really question me, but it's just I push myself. So, I mean, I couldn't live with myself if I quit the race. But I'm not saying I wasn't thinking about how nice it would have been to stop running. Well, anytime you're working out, I mean, if you just think about a yoga class, which is only 90 minutes. Those last 20 minutes, you're totally thinking about, it'd be so nice to just get the fuck out of this hot room and drink some cold water.

But you just power through. Now, multiply that times 24. Yeah. And way harder. Yeah. Because you're running, you're exhausted, you're in pain. Now multiply that times 24. Yeah. And way harder. Yeah. Because you're running, you're exhausted, you're in pain. I can't even imagine. I'm saying all these things and I'm just guessing what it's like.

Well, I teamed up with a pretty good runner, Joe Yuhan, to start the race. He was getting a workout in. He was pacing at the Western States 100, which was this last weekend. And so he wanted to get a good workout. So I was like, oh, cool. I can knock off a bunch of miles with him. So we were running pretty fast, pretty fast for, you know, when you have to run for 24 straight hours. But we knocked off 10 miles quickly.

And I remember I was running with him. And I was, you know, after you run 10 miles, you know you've done something. And I was thinking to myself myself i got 90 more miles left i felt like i'd already got a pretty good workout and i hadn't even got started really so felt like you were done and you had 90 miles left yeah so it's uh it's you know you talk about mental strength and just keep hammering, basically. You just got to keep hammering. That is daunting.

And what is it like when it's over? What is the feeling like when you cross, when it's 24 hours, the time's up, you look at your distance, 102 miles. What does that feel like? It feels good. Most days, and this is just me, I can't expect anybody to be able to relate to my screwed up mind. But, I mean, me personally, I can go run 15 miles, get a good workout, go home, and an hour later, I'm thinking, I could have done more. I'm not satisfied. I could have done more. I'm not satisfied. So the big thing for me is when I've done something like that for the, one of the few times throughout the year, I feel satisfied that I gave what I had.

Wow. So it's just so brutal that you never feel like you could have done more. No, no, no, no. I always think I could have done more. No, I'm disappointed with myself. No, no, no, no. I always think I could have done more. No, I'm disappointed with myself. Just because in that race, and I can try to have it make sense. I can be logical about it. And I could say, well, I went out really fast because I wanted to be as miserable as possible for as long as possible to prepare myself for the Bigfoot 200. So I can say, well, I ran super hard for four hours hoping I was going to be miserable for 20. and I knew my pace would be slower and it would be more painful, but in the big picture it will help me. But that's just words. To me, I'm thinking I had, you know, I was in first place through 50 miles.

I was, you know, did 50 miles in eight hours. And so I was on pace for a lot of miles. I was second place at, uh, 62 miles. And I was, or no, at 12 hours, I had run, I think 65 miles. So I'm on pace for 130. So I really died. And yeah, you, I can, I can use words and say, well, it was a plan. It was, it was part of being miserable and preparing myself for a greater challenge. But I also feel like, you know, I gave up miles and I could have got my most miles ever and I should have got 120 plus miles. And so, yeah, there's always the feeling I could have done more, even though, but I'm a little bit satisfied. God. Now at the end of it, so you're, you're, you're killing it at 50 miles.

You're in first place. And then is it just simply a matter of you just muscle fatigue and pain and you just pain for me can only push so far. Yeah. I can't speak for anybody else. Probably for some people it's fatigue. Some people it's just mental exhaustion. For me, it's pain. It's just I've run, you know, I did my first marathon in 2002. So I've been doing this for whatever, 14 years, multiple marathons every year, back to back. Sometimes my body is not a hundred percent so i can push i have a high high pain tolerance but eventually um it adds up and so it's pain for me is so is it joint pain knees everything is it just the whole body it's waist down hips knees ankles feet, ankles, feet. And how long

does it take you to recover? Like you were telling me that your legs are swollen twice the size of normal. Yeah. Last year, last year was way worse. This year I had, I put in a bunch of miles leading up. I was running about a half a marathon a day. So my body was, is pretty fit and pretty used to it. So my recovery was much shorter. I mean, I, and again, people aren't going to understand this, but the next, the day after I ran 102, I ran 13 miles. And that was just because when I run the big foot 200, I'm going to have to be able to come back after, you know, multiple days of being hurt and banged up. And that's the name of the game, you know, to cover 200 miles in a couple of days, like I want to, I'm not going to be a hundred percent. So I thought, well, I can't, I can't

know what it feels like to run after I run a hundred miles, one, I run 100 miles, and two, I run the day after. So you can't simulate that. There's no way to simulate that. So you ran 13 miles the day after you run 102 miles. And what the fuck is that like? It'd be using the running term loosely. It was painful, slow. I was hiking the uphills.

Running would be like, i probably looked like a 90 year old man trying to run it freaking hurt and what are you i did it are your legs totally swollen when you're doing this yeah mm-hmm yeah my uh my ankles are all swollen and calves don't really have an ankle it's the same size from my foot up. I mean, it's not good for me. I mean, anybody who talks about doing hundreds, hundreds aren't good for probably anybody. So it's, yeah, I know that what I do isn't in the best interest of my body,

but it's just the name of the game, just what I do. So what you do is not in the best interest of your body you understand this you're very aware of this and you're a professional bow hunter essentially but you have this thing in your head where you have to push yourself as far and as hard as possible to find out for yourself to set goals to to try to push past this pain and endurance barrier that you have. Is that what it all is? I'm just trying to make sense of it because it's not like you're getting paid to do these. These are amateur races. No, I'm not getting paid at all.

This is just for me. I used to think I was an idiot for competing in martial arts matches for no money. Yeah. But this is crazy. for no money yeah you know but this is this is crazy like you're you're doing this at 48 years old with a family with a job yeah and you're still yeah it's just it's just me it's just what I feel like I need to do and I don't I don't you know you know how long you're gonna continue to do this no but you know the people have told me when I, you know, I started doing

marathons and running the mountain back home. Like I said, I don't know, years ago, 15 years ago. And people said then, well, if you keep running like this, by the time you're 40, you won't be able to run. And so here I am. They always say that. Yeah, I know. So I just, the point, the point to that is I don't really care. I don't do it for anybody. I don't do what I do for anybody else just for me. And I feel like I need to do this. I like pushing my limits.

That's why, you know, if I would have listened to people tell me what I shouldn't do or couldn't do or nobody could do, I wouldn't have done hardly anything in my life. So the point is I don't care. I don't care what anybody says. I don't care what anybody thinks. I just, this is what I do. I need to do it. I like finding my absolute limit and seeing how much I can withstand. And this is, that's all this is. Yeah. That's a weird thing that people always do. They, if you do that, it's going to kill you. If you do that, it's going to break it down. What are you doing lifting weights? You know, I've heard that people that lift weights actually live shorter lives. Right.

There's always these people that want to tell you to not do that. I'm always like, why are you doing it? But I'm never going to tell you don't do it. I just don't understand that. There's something to that mentality. We were kind of talking about this earlier today. I think there's something in some people where they see someone doing something crazy that they can't do and they want to figure out there's got to be something wrong with you and they got

to figure out a way to criticize you instead of saying wow that guy's fucking crazy or wow that's a crazy commitment i i don't want to do it, but I respect, appreciate it. Instead of doing that, they try to like poke holes that may, may not even be there. You know, they try to, you're kind of admitting that it's not good for you. Not kind of, you're a hundred percent admitting that it's not good for you. It's not, but it is good for you in one way. You're like, your mind desires this extreme challenge and that keeps you very calm and sane see as you're you're the kind of guy where i feel like if that didn't exist you would have like real problems like just integrating and relating to regular society probably i mean that's i don't know i don't know what I would be like without the

challenge that I take on. I, if I, but part of me feels like if I didn't do it, I would be a shell of myself as far as I wouldn't be living up to my ability. My whole thing is like, if I'm able to do it, I need to attempt it. I need to try, I need to do it. I mean, because I just think that people need to live up to their full potential. That's all I'm doing. Is there anything else, though, that you think is interesting, like, in that way? Like, this is, it's a competitive thing in some ways. Like, because you were saying, you know, hey, I'm first place at 50 miles.

But it's somewhere along the line, it becomes more, you're pushing yourself. It becomes less of you, you're not really engaging with someone else even if you're racing them you're really kind of all in your own mind right yeah yeah it's uh um yeah i look i look at it more of just a competition with myself um than with another racer or or another person um of course if'm running, it would be cool to be first, you know, I mean, that's just, I'm a competitive person. There's no doubt. But what I do, my workouts are always by myself. Um, nobody's pushing me. It's just me. And, you know, setting the goals, like to run big foot 200 or whatever. That's just me. Yeah. I don don't know if anybody I might not even see anybody during that whole race. So it's just like, you know, there I think there's 75 or so people signed up, but it's going to be probably pretty spread out pretty quickly, just depending on how fast people go out or do whatever two complete days and not see anybody.

So, yeah, it's not really, it's not like the Olympic 100-meter dash where you're lined up against, you know, eight other guys and you see exactly where everybody's at. This is more about a test of personal will. You know, we were talking today also where a guy that we know who's kind of an expert in a lot of physical things saying well you know why don't you uh take epo all these people that you're racing against you're probably taking epo it's not like they're going to test you yeah but you're like well epo's probably not going to help me with pain no and i i don't really know what epo does

but all i know is what what limits me is uh just that pain so unless something can like make me mentally stronger i don't know if it's going to help in a in a race like that because it's not like you're going super fast you know it's not like the pace is you know extraordinary it's just grinding those ultra marathon guys are seeking help with edible marijuana. That's a big one lately. Apparently, it's big with a lot of these ultramarathon guys where it just reduces inflammation in some way that they find very beneficial as opposed to non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, which we'll probably get into too. We should talk about that because the Rhonda Patrick thing. ronda patrick thing but um these ultra marathon guys uh they're you know now that it's becoming more and more acceptable to use uh cannabis these people are coming out and talking about it it's you know it's uh it's interesting that it benefits them in that way because uh jujitsu people have

been saying it for years that uh people always associate marijuana with uh you being lazy but with a lot of jujitsu guys, they find that it makes them more creative and more tuned into what they're doing and also able to, you know, jujitsu can be pretty painful too. But although it's a different kind of pain, it's pain in short exchanges are painful. You don't want to tap and you fight your way out of a choke or something like that. You don't want to tap and you fight your way out of a choke or something like that. But the grinding monotonous pain of what you're doing is kind of a different kind of pain.

If I talk about what it would be like, I'm just talking out of my ass. Yeah. Well, here's what I will say. If somebody would offer me some edible cannabis at mile 80 last weekend. You would have taken it? I would have done almost anything to make the pain stop, but I have a regular job.

I get surprise drug tests at work. How often do they surprise drug test you? God, I don't even... I don't know. Probably... I don't know. Once a year. And what do they test them for? I don't know. They just want your pee? Yeah. Give me your pee, man. Yeah, I don't know, once a year. And what do they test him for? I don't know. They just want your pee?

Yeah. Give me your pee, man. Yeah, I don't know what they do. But I mean, I'm not, you know. There's something fucked up about that because it's one thing if you were doing a terrible job. Yeah. Like say if you're like a guy who handles heavy machinery and you keep cutting off people's fingers. Like, hey man, maybe we should test Cam.

What the fuck is he up to? Cam's high as fuck. It's not that. It's just they just decide. Like, even if you're doing your job well, they still feel like they can test your body and find out what you're doing. And it's also one of the real problems is it's rooted in ignorance

because if you have this stuff in your system, like, say, if you smoke pot on a Friday, you get off work, have a joint, go play baseball with your son, have a good time. It's not like you're high on Monday when you show up for work, but it'll still be in your system.

So they're making sure you're not doing anything that they don't like when you're not there. I don't, you know, the part of it, I don't really care personally because I live a clean life. I mean, I don't drink, don't smoke, don't, you know, the part of it, I don't really care personally, because I live a clean life. I mean, I don't drink, don't smoke, don't do whatever. I mean, so they can test whatever. But I think part of it is, it's, it's one of the best places to work in the area. So they figure that, you know, part of the stipulation of working here is you're subjected to these drug tests. If you don't like it, you don't have to work here.

Right. So. Oh, I get it. I mean, it's. I get it. And I'm not saying, they're probably not testing for pot and thinking, or I'm sure they are testing for pot, but I mean, it's, you know, I think they test for alcohol. I think.

How can they test for alcohol? I think they do. You have to be, you'd have to be drunk there. Well. You'd have to be drunk at the job. Right. You'd have to have a drink at lunch, and then they could test you. People could do that.

Yeah, that's possible. I'm not saying people do that, but they could. But you could get hammered on Friday, and Monday be clean as a whistle. Right. Yeah, when they always do it is they'll call like at, you know, I start work at 7, so it'll be like 7.15. Hey, you need to be to wherever in 15 minutes. Right. So I think it's just they don't want somebody out hammered drunk at 3 in the morning.

Right. You know, and probably still show up there at 7.30 or whatever. That totally makes sense. Yeah. That totally makes sense because, yeah, you are compromised. And even if you show up and you're stoned at work, for a lot of people, they are compromised. I understand the idea that you would want someone to not have a drug problem. Right. Because we all know people that have had problems. For me, the most disturbing one has

been people that I know that have had pill problems, like speed and things along those lines. Because a lot of times they're functional, but just a little off. And if you're dealing with important stuff, you could be making critical decision errors because you're impaired. So they might have hired you based on your critical thinking and your reasoning, but then that's all being compromised by a drug, and there's only one way to find out what the fuck is going on with you. Testing, yeah. Yeah.

That makes sense. The problem with the cannabis thing is twofold. One, it stays in your system. You're, you can test for it for weeks and weeks after it's psychoactive because it's fat soluble. And two, because this assumption that if you use something, you abuse something. Right. Is not, it's not accurate.

And it's only applies to losers. So if you say, well, look at all these losers. They get high every day. Well, yeah. Okay. But they're also losers. There's a lot of people. Not responsible people. Yeah. But when I say losers, I don't mean if you get high every day, you're a loser. I know people that get high every day and they're super successful. Businessmen, IT guys. I know a lot of people. I know people that micro dose LSD all the time and they run multimillion dollar businesses and they do it all the time. Yeah. But their personality is such that recreationally they don't have an issue. They can do things and doesn't overwhelm their life. But some people can't gamble. You know what

I mean? Some people, like if you play poker with some people, they'll lose their fucking mind. Next thing you know, they're on a flight to Vegas, and they're going crazy, and they lost their mortgage. It's a disease. It's a legitimate mental disease. Not in the sense that you catch it. You know, oh, man, I didn't wash my hands.

I caught Vegas. You know, it's not like that. But it's a legitimate disease in the sense that it can fuck with your mind in a way that is almost out of your control like a cold makes your physical health out of your control like when I have a cold I get upset at myself yeah cuz I'm like you fucking dummy you let yourself get run down right now you didn't get enough sleep you didn't you know whatever it is you travel too much

and here you are now you feel like shit. This is stupid. Well, that's sort of the same thing that happens to people when they get a gambling addiction. So it's not a substance thing. It's not like saying, Cam, we're going to test you for gambling. Did you play poker with your buddies over the weekend? How much did you gamble? Oh, 10 bucks. Too much.

You can't do that to people. I't i think that there's a there's a real problem with that and you know i mean i guess you could say if you if it's your you're their employer and you know this is the kind of people that you want it's up to you to do that i don't i don't fucking buy that yeah i don't buy that i say if the guy's doing a good job there should be no issues right well i think uh i and I think they're a fair employer. So I think even if you did test for something and you were a good employee, they're going to work through whatever issues you have. Yeah, they're going to make you go to rehab with a bunch of losers. Maybe. And sit around talking about pot. Can you imagine what it's like going to a rehab

if you smoke a little weed and you get popped at work and you've got to go to a rehab with a bunch of stone cold junkies? They're all covered in scabs, clawing at fake spiders all day and freaking out. Or they're ultra marathon runners. Well, we were talking about that. Just don't test me after the Bigfoot 200, please. I'm going to get you some, man. I'm going to get you a ton of it.

Take a couple months off work after that i'm gonna um there was a pre-workout supplement that we were talking about on the way up here too where they pulled it off the shelf because they found fucking meth in it straight up meth it's like a meth-like substance that had never been tested on human beings and i was like pull this shit off the shelf i asked joe what it was called cuz you know that stuff would work It's right that stuff. Well people get super addicted to that though This you know, it doesn't like coffee like I'm probably addicted to coffee. I fucking love coffee. I love coffee, too I love your coffee. What what coffee is this? This is caveman coffee. This is some delicious roast

What kind of this remember what roast it is? There was that saber tooth. Was it the saber? It was the end of one. I think it was that, yeah. It was a black bag. God damn, that's it. That delicious stuff with the silver writing. Woo!

It's good stuff. Yeah, it's really good coffee. As far as right now, I'm just trying to keep my body as pure as possible. I'm not even doing pre-workout at all because I'm so cognizant of what my heart's doing. Right. Because I'm pushing it so hard every day. And I'm always got my heart rate monitor on even during that, the ultra that I just did the 24 hour, we were running fast and never got above, um, 141 or 142 beats per minute. So, I mean that when I take pre-workout, obviously it's going to ramp up my heart rate. And I just, so my work definitely doesn't have to worry about anything in me right now.

I'm just trying to stay calm, stay like an efficient machine out there. And I'm feeling good, actually. That's awesome. Can you imagine if you took a pre-workout and you got popped for meth? Go to work and they're like, hey, Cam, what the fuck are you doing? I'm eating healthy working out yeah taking uh super jacked formula number six yeah oh yeah oh let's test that meth head well we have a real issue with that in the ufc there's a real issue with guys taking these supplements uh chad

mendez is one of the latest ones take these supplements that you buy from stores, and these supplements turned out to have either steroids or hormone precursors or different peptides that make your body develop more testosterone or more growth hormone or different things that are banned by the USADA. And super common, man. Super common. And a lot of people online would love, yeah, yeah, that's what it was. It was a tainted supplement. But they're actually testing these supplements. When these guys get caught, like, for instance, Tim Means. He's a perfect example.

He was only suspended for a very short amount of time. They gave him six months retroactive to the day where he got caught. He was supposed to have this fucking amazing fight with Cowboy Cerrone. That would have been an incredible fight. Tim Means is super, super skillful. So they take Tim Means, he tells them what the supplement was. They go to a store independently,

take it off the shelf, test it, and they go, yep, sure enough, it has a steroid in it. So there's a lot of this stuff that people are buying that they think is safe and easy. If it works like that, if it's like,

I put on 10 pounds in three hours there's some shit in there dude yeah the stuff that works works a little bit you know where it's like a little bit you get like a little bit of an advantage like everything is keep everything that's healthy and then legal that you could use like creatine creatine works yeah begin like a little bit a little bit of a bump a little bit of a bump and you can add a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And this stuff helps that. And that stuff helps.

Then you take this before you go to bed. It'll help your growth hormone increase. And all that stuff is like little incremental little edges. Yeah. It's a little boost. It works. It all works. But a little bit.

Yeah. I did that with Complete Nutrition. I think it was like 2011. They had some of that stuff. And it was, you know, did taking a was like 2011. They had some of that stuff and is, you know, did, uh, taking a few different things and, uh, it worked. I totally worked. I definitely put on muscle and I was like, dang, this stuff is awesome. So got done, went back in there like, oh, remember that stuff that is something Nova or something like that? They're like, yeah,

they pulled that. It was too strong. I'm like, oh, so that's it. I mean, it definitely worked. The problem with that is, you know, like young guys especially, they'll take whatever. But that stuff is hard on your liver. You know what I mean? Those supplements going through your liver like that. So it's. It's also hard on your balls. Probably.

Dude, I took this stuff called Mag 10. Mag 10 is the most powerful thing that I ever took they pulled that off the shelf Did they yeah, you should take 10 clear pills a day? Yeah, you just look like a total pill head. I mean it's like a stack of these pills, and they're clear Yeah, and they probably look super toxic on your liver probably god damn did I get jacked it did it work? Probably god damn did I get jacked it didn't work. Oh My god, yeah, but it's you know, you're manipulating your hormones Yeah, and it's tricky doing that is tricky because you have to really be concerned with Taxing your endocrine system your endocrine system shuts down. It's like well this why does this guy have you know?

All this goddamn extra testosterone a system. I guess we don't have to make testosterone anymore So your balls crash. So your balls take a break. And when your balls go on vacation, then it takes like a couple weeks for them to get back up to speed after you're done. Because if you're on that stuff, like say if you're on for like six weeks,

I think they say it takes like at least three for your body to get back to normal. For your body to like go, whew, okay. Really? Looks like, you know, it's like your body to like go oh okay really looks like uh you know it's like your your balls are like a haunted house like everybody goes in and shines a flashlight around we okay we go back to business now what the fuck was going on in here what is this guy taking you know your body's not used to you taking something it's processed through your digestive system and

it's testosterone and all of a sudden you're like, what is this? Where's it coming from? Why is it coming from the liver? Right. What is this shit? Getting absorbed by your stomach and your intestines, this crazy testosterone stuff. You know what's better? Just eat elk.

That helps. That does help. Yeah. There's a bunch of different foods that are apparently, that are high in, or that make your body produce more testosterone. Here's an interesting thing that a lot of people are finding when they're going on ketogenic diets. Yeah. And this is several people, including me, that have done this, where once you start going on these ketogenic diets and you get your testosterone tested, and this is people that are on testosterone replacement and people that are not on testosterone replacement. I've had three different friends

who have similar results where your test just gets jacked. So what turns out that fats are one of the most important things like healthy fats and essential fatty acids and even saturated fats and even cholesterol is one of the most important things for your body to convert to testosterone. For your body to produce testosterone, it needs those precursors. It needs those important aspects of nutrition, which is really interesting because for so long, people thought that low-fat diets were healthy and low-fat was the way to go. And low fat will make you have more energy. It'd be healthier. Yeah.

But it turns out that's not necessarily true. And it's weird because like what was like doctrine 20 years ago or 10 years ago. Right. Now they go, well, that's not the case. You know, I was reading my kid a book, a Dr. Seuss book. Yeah. And it was a nutrition pyramid. Oh, okay.

And at the bottom of the pyramid like the most important shit was bread it was like bread and grains like that is not that's no no no i where's the vegetables right why is that fucking why is the bottom useless calories like pasta that's so stupid yeah and that's exactly that people just pound that stuff in the evenings and wonder why they can't lose weight. Yeah. You know, that's the biggest thing is those late night carbs that aren't getting burned up. Well, it gets converted to sugar.

And also there's the insulin. That's the real issue. It's a giant issue with your body getting this insulin spike. And it's just not good for you. It's just not good to have that much goddamn sugar. It doesn't exist in nature in that form. Yeah. So we've developed these very weird bodies, you know,

and ever since I've been on this, you know, high fat, low sugar kick, I was always aware that people were overweight. So it's natural. You see it everywhere. No big deal. But it's stunning when you really start taking an actual, like an inventory. Yeah. Start looking around at all these people.

Oh, I know. Belly fat and face fat and neck fat and arm fat. We're capable of so much. And then you see people who, you know, and I understand people are going through things or challenges, have different challenges in their life. I get it. But our bodies are so amazing. Don't have to let them get to that stage, for sure. It's unfortunate because it's so hard to change.

Once you're at that stage, it's so hard. And you feel terrible. And, again, this is like me talking about marathon runners and talking shit. I've never gotten enormously obese. But I would imagine I've gotten fat enough where I'm disgusted with myself. And that's like 10 pounds overweight. Right. But I think they feel like it's too much work.

It's almost like the idea of running an ultra marathon. It's like losing 100 pounds. So much work. It's no different. So when you run an ultra marathon, you don't think about you're running 100 miles. You break it down. I mean, and so that's the same thing with losing weight. You can't think about, hey, I need to lose 100 pounds.

You think about winning that day. Right. What are you going to do today? And then you can worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. Somebody's asked me, like, how do you stay in that cryogenic chamber for three minutes at 250 degrees below zero? I said, I just count to 60 three times. Yeah. And they're like, that's it?

I go, yeah, that's all I do. I count to 60. I go, one, two, three. And I get to 60, and I go, we're done with one. One, and then I do it again. And then by the time I get to the third minute, I'm shivering, but I'm just counting to 60. It's not that hard if you play a little game. Right. Well, it's no different. So if you want to try to do 25 reps in the gym,

you don't do 25, you do five sets of five. Exactly. So you just break that down. Everybody has, you know, people are different. People break things down differently. You know, I've been thinking about this Bigfoot 200 race and I'm thinking, well, maybe I should break it into 50-mile races. You know, just break it down 450s, try to get it done. So it's, you know, everybody's different. Psychological games. Yes, whatever. Yeah. I do that when I do the Hindu squats.

I do 200 Hindu squats, and the way I do it is I do them by tens. I just do, and I have a clicker, so I can't cheat. Yeah. Because you will fucking forget while you're in the middle of that. You're like, what am I on, 30? Am I on 40? I have to look at the clicker, so I can't cheat. Yeah. Because you will fucking forget while you're in the middle of that. You're like, what am I on, 30? Am I on 40? I have to look at the clicker. Yeah.

So I count, and then at the end, I check the clicker to make sure I'm right. There you go. But I break it down in tens. I just do 10, and I do 10 more, 20, and then 30. And I do it like that. I think of it as each one being a 10-squat increment. So then when I get through, it doesn't seem so daunting that I do 10 squats and I have 90

or 190 to go. Yeah. I think of it as just each little 10, 10 squat little event that I'm doing. That's the way to do it. Here's another 10 squat event.

Here's another 10 squat event. But that's nothing. That's nothing. Well, compared to what you're doing. Yeah. Well, you're also taking a fucking rock

and throwing it in a backpack. Running up the hill? That's ridiculous, too. Not running, but yeah, getting up the hill. Well, you can't, yeah. No. It's heavy. A lot of guys are doing that now, though.

You know, a lot of guys are not with your rock the way you do it. Yeah. But many guys are taking sandbags now. Yeah. And packing them down just like they would. Like they were trying to, if you had a heavy backpack and you have uh you know seven miles to go to get back to the truck there's nothing you can do but walk those goddamn seven miles with that heavy backpack it's not going to get out on its own no no and that's that's the thing is like that's just hard

manual labor yeah that's all there is to it i, when you start hunting elk in the backcountry or even deer in the backcountry or whatever you're – bear, you got to get that thing back to the truck. And so there's some guys who can just beast it, who don't train, who can just say, well, I'll just take some time and I'll get it out. There's a few guys who can do that and just one step at a time type thing. Most guys have to train to be in that position You know most guys yeah without a doubt It's it's it's very physically taxing you when you and I were in Colorado and we packed out that bowl did what did we walk? like maybe 6 tenths of a mile

Yeah, yeah mad most three-quarters of a mile at most three have been three quarters of a mile. At most, three quarters of a mile. And, you know, only had like 100 pounds on. And imagine, like, I think Remy was the one who was talking about it. Remy Warren of the fabulous show Apex Predator. He was on the podcast talking about how he had to pack a moose out. I think it was a moose. Seven miles. Yeah.

And at the end, he was just broken for like months his body was just dead oh i know it's it you know when i killed that moose uh up in alaska with roy you know our last hunt together a moose uh and that was up over a big ridge into another canyon you know it was four miles it wasn't seven like Remy's. But it was 600 pounds of meat. So how are you going to get 600 pounds of meat? I mean, it's going to be 100 pounds at a time and up over the hill. Jesus Christ. It's a grind.

But, you know, through snow, we walked. Roy thought it was a better route just to go down the creek, like walk in the creek. Yeah. I came up the, uh, the ridge. He hadn't been in there that way, uh, uh, kind of up the ridge staying out of the creek. He'd always come up the creek because if you know, Roy, it's like the hardest possible way to do things. That's how he wanted to do it. So our first load out, we were walking down the creek, just feet, you know, if you ever imagine walking in a creek with 100 and some pounds on your back.

The alders are catching your backpack. I mean, it's exhausting. So on the way back in, I'm like, dude, we've got to stay up on that ridge. You're going to love the ridge. And it was just like probably five times easier. Why would walking in the creek be good? The only thing I could think is if you were so hot from carrying all that weight that it would cool you off a little bit, but then you'd be wet. No, what his thought was, you know, there's so many, so much, the brush is so thick.

So if you're not fighting brush, if you're in the creek, you know, usually the creek is pretty open. And he had cut some of the brush that brushes growing over the Creek out of the way. So he sort of had a trail cut in there and he came in there that the year before he, I think he killed a bull back in there. So he sort of had a trail cut in there, but the rocking, walking in the Creek with the slipping and sliding and everything else, just, it was, uh, it wasn't it. We went on the ridge and he's like, wow, this is way better. Rinella's brother fucked his back up so bad that he had to buy llamas.

Yeah. He was carrying out an elk and apparently he just fucked his back up. Yeah. Just, you know, Rinella and his brothers, they're all savages. They're all relentless. I'm sure. They're these fucking hill climbing psycho goat people yeah that just don't get tired and they just push each other and i'm sure growing up they all pushed

each other hard like knowing ranella and then hearing a story about his brother i'm sure they're basically the same way and that i think he just said fucking toughen up pussy and he kept going and just his back was just jacked well so then he got llamas. So now he takes these llamas in a van, and when he drives, he has these llamas pack the meat out for him. Yeah. Me and Roy had llamas. We bought llamas for $100 a piece

for the exact same thing. What is it like keeping a llama? You don't hardly have to do anything. Really? I mean, when you pay $100 for them, who cares? So locked up. That's fucked up. It's a slave.

Poor slave llama. I know. Bullshit. No, but they're really hardy animals. Yeah. And they can't pack like a horse can pack. So if they pack 70 pounds and you got four of them, well, there's 280 pounds you're not packing on your back. Right.

You know, that adds up. So that's how we had them. 280 pounds, you're not packing on your back. Right. You know, that adds up. So that's how we had them. And they would pack. Even if they didn't pack much meat, they'd pack our camp and we could take extra food and things like that. So we'd go in the wilderness with our four llamas.

And it was great. And they just, like, hang out. Like, they don't get cold. No. And they don't need water either. They're sort of like camels. What? Yeah.

You don't even have to worry about water. either they're sort of like camels what yeah you you don't even have to worry about water with horses when you have horses in the back country uh wrangling the horses is like a whole different responsibility a whole extra responsibility you have to make sure they have water you have to you know feed they can kind of figure it out in the high country but they have to get water every day you know so you can't be gone from camp for extended periods with llamas. Who cares? Remy was on a horse hunt and they were riding a horse. And one of the guys was on the horse and the horse fell and snapped its leg.

The horse broke its leg? Yeah, the horse broke its leg. And the guide just said, all right, well, everybody back up. Had to shoot the horse. Yeah. And so Remy was like, well, this back up. Had to shoot the horse. Yeah. And so Remy was like, well, this seems like you're just going to leave it here? Yeah. So he cut the back straps off of it.

Off the horse? Off the horse. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think he cooked it, too. Didn't he say he cooked it? I don't know. I ate horse before.

Yeah? I ate horse at an amazing restaurant in Montreal. Oh. Joe Beef. Twice. Twice. Two different occasions they ate horse before. Yeah? I ate horse at an amazing restaurant in Montreal. Oh. Joe Beef. Twice. Two different occasions they served us horse. Yeah. One time it was, you were like, yeah, well, okay.

No, I would, personally, I wouldn't eat horse. I've seen horses dead in the back country. Same thing. You wouldn't eat a horse? Probably not, no. Look, if you went to a restaurant, it's a super fancy restaurant like Joe Beef, and they served you a horse tenderloin.

I'd say, Hey, could I get that filet? You wouldn't try it? Probably not. Really? You wouldn't just try it. I was,

you know, I grew up around horses, love horses, uh, have ridden a lot. And I remember I was hunting in Australia with Adam green tree and they call them Bromby's back there. So it's just wild horses. And we were sitting thereden a lot. And I remember I was hunting in Australia with Adam Greentree. And they call them Brombies back there. So it's just wild horses. And we were sitting there under a tree as hot as, I mean, 120 degrees Fahrenheit.

It's crazy hot. We're just sitting there boiling. Here's this white stallion coming, a Brombie. And Adam was like, oh, that's a beautiful trophy. And this horse. What? A beautiful trophy and uh this whore what a beautiful trophy to shoot yeah they shoot them what yes they're wild horses so it's just a trophy what a weird way to look at a horse well that's that's why people hunt right is it you hunt for food i mean does he eat the horse he's gonna what's he gonna do with it the thing off it the thing horse i shot

people are gonna be like fucking psycho no the thing off it the thing horse i shot people are gonna be like fucking psycho no the thing in australia is all those are feral animals so they need to be killed you know so there's no law that says you need to take the meat off whatever you kill they just want the animals dead that is so strange there's too many of them i mean they'll they'll fly over parks and just wipe out the buffalo the water buffalo because they just ruin all the water sources there's they don't get killed there's way too many of them they were introduced there from asia and so they need the numbers control yeah they need them gone basically so yeah i mean a wild horse same thing their um their sensibilities are so contrary to ours

when you think about what hunting is over here and what hunting is over there, for people that are aghast listening to this, by the way, Adam is fucking awesome. I love this guy. He's not a slight against him. No. He's amazing, but his environment is very different than our environment, and this is what's different. Australia didn't have hardly any animals.

I mean, like kangaroos and wallabies and some weird shit But all the animals they have there Have been introduced and they've made some big mistakes along the way yeah, and one of the big mistakes was they brought over foxes and they brought over cats and This is a huge mistake because they have wild cats everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere in Australia. Regular like house cats. Regular like house cats, except they're wild as fuck and they kill everything.

They decimate ground nesting birds. Yeah. The ground nesting birds just go extinct. Like there's just, they have no chance. And cats are fucking murderers. We've talked about this on the podcast because we read this study that was done recently on how many animals cats kill per year. I have two cats.

I love cats. They're awesome. I've always had cats. I've had cats my whole life. I love cats. It's not slight against cats. Yeah. They kill billions.

Billions. I mean, B-I. B-I. Every year in America. Just in the U.S. They're fucking murderers. Yeah, that's what they do. They kill mice and rodents and squirrels and birds. They fucking kill everything.

So in Australian hunting magazines, these guys are holding up cats. Yeah. Like with smiles in their face. Right. Like they just shot a coyote or some, you know, murderous wildebeest thing. Not a wildebeest. What's a wildebeest? Wouldn't be murder murderous some animal that you have to kill yeah? You know, but they're holding up a fucking cat and you're like what?

Like he said he gave me one of his magazines one of these Australian yeah, yeah, this is cat killers Incorporated look at the fuck kind of magazines this bunch of guys smiling with pictures of cats Yeah, but in their world right like this is a necessary thing like they have to kill these cats just to keep the popular and they're still barely putting a dent in it oh yeah no and so the the end of my story is here comes this white stallion 20 yards perfect and couldn't shoot it yeah couldn't Couldn't do it. Fuck that. Can't kill a horse. Isn't that weird?

I haven't. You know, zebras are fairly close to horses in appearance. I've never hunted a zebra either. I've been to Africa multiple times. So anyway, I'm not trying to judge anybody for doing it. I'm just saying for me. Rinella had a really good take on this whole Cecil the lion thing. And one of the things that he was saying is like, as a hunter.

Who's Cecil? That's that guy. That dude. His brother. He had a brother named Jericho. But his take on it was that as a person who goes out and takes a life and does this in a sort of a public manner, you have an obligation to consume that animal. And so I was saying to him, well, if you go over to Africa, he's like, well, I've never

been to Africa and I don't have a desire to go to Africa, but if I did and I shot a lion, I'd eat that lion. I go, you would? He goes, yeah, I'd eat that lion. Yeah. So he won't shoot anything unless he eats it. Okay. And he's, um, he's actually been on many, uh, grizzly hunts.

Yeah. But he won't hunt coastal grizzlies cause he doesn't want a grizzly that's like been eating fish. He wants an inland grizzly. It would be a brown bear when it's coastal and an inland grizzly. Right. So he wants an animal that is, you know, most likely eating berries or whatever so he can actually eat it. It's good.

It's a good way to look at it. Yeah, I mean, he could still eat the coastal. I mean. Parties like, holy hell. I don't know. I've eaten black bear that eat fish. And they're okay? You know, on Prince of Wales Island, those black bear eat salmon just like a grizzly.

And does it taste any different than like an Alberta black bear? The Alberta black bear are really good because they're grain fed. Basically, it's like a grain fed beef. Right. But, you know. That's like a white-tailed deer that lives near a farm. Yeah. Like if you get white-tailed deer that live near a farm, they're eating Monsanto GMO corn.

Right. Just kind of, look, it's nature. It's nature and it's organic. Guaranteed, that's good meat. Oh, it's delicious. But my buddy Doug, who's got a farm in Wisconsin, Doug Dern, shout out to my buddy Doug. He has this amazing place in Wisconsin in the driftless area. Uh, you know where Casanova is? I don't. About 90 minutes or so outside of, uh, what is the

Madison, I guess. Yeah. About 90 minutes outside of Madison, somewhere around there, but just this stunning place. Beautiful. And anyway, these deer, they're, they're essentially almost like farm animals and they live in conjunction with people like their numbers have never been higher. And one of the reasons is that we have these enormous farm areas. Like if you, if you, people who are not aware, if you look at the United States, if you look at the areas that are known for being agriculturally strong, like Kansas, Iowa. Those are where all the bucks are. Yeah. That's where all the deer are. If you go to those places. It's a great habitat.

Yeah. I mean, they live healthy and happy because of these farms. Yeah. So they're almost farm animals in some weird way. A little bit. I mean, there's no- Kind of. They're not fenced in, though.

Not fenced in. But they're- And it's a lot of work. They're tuned in, man. Their fucking ears are going left and right. They're looking for everybody. They're keeping an eye on predators. Whitetail are notoriously skittish, yeah.

They're tuned in. They are very aware that they're desired. Yeah. Someone's trying to jack them. They're just like... And the really big ones, it's an interesting thing. They don't come out in the daytime a lot of times. Their only weakness is the rut when it's breeding season.

And so then that's when that's a chink in their armor. So they want to breed. They want to find that hot, that doe that's in heat. Sounds like you. And estrous. Sounds like you too, Jamie. I'm judging everybody. Sounds like everybody but me.

Yeah, when you point at somebody, you know there's four fingers pointing back at you. Not the way I point. Or wait, three. I point gangster style. Oh. Like this. So all five are at me. I point at Jamie and you. That's how I'm pointing. I'm pointing to the devil with my thumb. I'm pointing to you with my finger. And my other fingers are going to Jamie.

Well, judge away. That makes you feel better. It does. It's weird how it works that way. It makes you feel way better. I think I'm better than people. That's good. I just like to not look at my own faults at all. Yeah. And it just makes me feel super comfortable.

Right. Well, all I focus on is my fault. So I'd like to try your bridge. Oh, you're so noble. So noble. It seems like a lot of work. It seems like a lot of work. But these areas in our country that are primarily agriculture areas that have these massive deer populations, that is the number one most hunted animal in North America.

It's a white-tailed deer. Most desired animal in America. It's interesting how, like, mule deer, which are also spectacular animals, but conversely are almost totally wild. These are mountain animals and they'll occasionally go into fields and stuff too and near farms for sure. But you're finding a lot of these animals, they're just totally, completely wild. And for some people, those animals, because of the fact they're wild, become like a more desirable animal. It's like the mountains are, I don't want to say romanticized, but people look at the mountains differently, it seems like. You know, just being in the mountains is powerful in itself.

So when you're hunting an animal that is a mountain monarch, so to speak, a big bull elk, sheep, a very noble animal that lives exclusively in the mountains, and a mountain mule deer, and bow hunters know, especially, you know, I don't want to say, I was going to say Western bow hunters know, but any bow hunter knows that tries to go after mule deer in the mountains, that's about as tough of a bow hunters you're going to get i mean because elk for me i've killed most of my bulls spotting stock um not calling them in and to stock an elk is pretty easy um just compared to a mule deer not easy in general just you know not like easy is going to the store and buying a pop but but easy. Easy to get close to them. Yeah. Compared to mule deer because they make noise themselves. So they're big animals, 800 pounds, kicking rocks, breaking branches. So they're making noises. So you can get away with some noise.

If a mule deer is laying up in its bed on top of a rim rock, all it is is laying there. Its back's protected because it's it's backed up against a rock wall and it's looking down this the wind's coming up so it can smell everything that's below them nothing you can get at them from behind them and they're with their big ears you know that's what that's why they got the name mule deer their uh their big ears are there just listening all they're doing is observing smelling the wind and listening very very hard to get in bow range of yeah it's a weird animal man it's uh it's interesting how they move too they bounce you know like a lot of animals are running yeah like deer like white-tailed deer

mostly kind of run but mule deer are literally bouncing up in the air like some sort of a cartoon rabbit yeah boing boing i don't know i guess i've never even you know obviously i know that because i've seen it i've spooked plenty of mule deer but uh i don't know if it's to get up and to have a better view of what what might have spooked them or what danger might be there to be high. I don't know. It'd be interesting to find out why there's any theories on why they do that. They kind of make sense if they live in fields, which a lot of them do. There's there goes one boing. Look at them go boing, boing, boing, boing.

What a weird animal. That's fucking weird. It's weird how they do that. They did this very strange. Look at the size of his ears. Yep. If you've never seen a mule deer before, folks, they have ears that are just enormous. Yeah.

And he's bouncing. Boing. Yeah. That's a good buck. And they're huge. Yeah. And that's actually, so an Achilles heel of a mule deer is those ears, if it's windy, because all the hair in their ears.

So if the wind is really blowing and the grass where they're bedded is blowing around or even the wind is blowing the hair in their ears around, they can't hear. So if it's windy, you can get close to them. If it's dead calm, it's not going to be easy. But if it's windy, that's one way. If I'm bow hunting and if I have the wind right and it's gusting, I feel pretty good.

I feel pretty good I can get in. It is interesting, too, that these animals that are more difficult to get to, and this is one thing that is contrary to the way a lot of people think about hunting, at least at the highest level. The animals that are the most difficult to get to and the hunts that are most difficult are the most prized. And it's one of the reasons why people like you gravitate towards bow hunting. Because bow hunting is far more difficult than rifle hunting. And then the animals that are the most difficult to bow hunt become the most prized.

For a lot of people, like wild desert bighorn sheep, stone sheep. Doll sheep. When you have to go to these really crazy places that is really high up in the mountains, very difficult to get there in the first place. And then good luck sneaking up on them. You're wide out in the open on this gigantic mountain with all this shale and rocks. And I mean, those are the animals that people prize in some strange way that these hunters, like the difficulty of the hunt, the tougher it is to camp out there, the difficulty in the conditions, the tougher those conditions are, the more people sort of like praise those kind of experiences.

It's the challenge. Yeah. It's why we bow hunt um and that's just a that's just a prime example of the greatest challenge there is you know in the mountains in those tough conditions with a bow um yeah it's as hard as it gets so we bow hunt because we like challenge and we put those animals on pedestals because they're the ultimate challenge yeah and it's for people that don't hunt, they probably are not, not only are not aware of this, but it might not even make that much sense

that this is one of the reasons why those animals are so, like people say, oh, you know, it doesn't, like how many times have I read this? It doesn't take any skill. You know, what you're doing is horrible and terrible. It's one of the most difficult things you could do in the world if you want to try to feed yourself with a bow and an arrow a stick and a string you want to try to feed yourself with that yeah good luck yeah the people who say there's no skill involved in bow hunting haven't done it they definitely haven't but it's also it's it's in a cons an inconsiderate convenient way of dismissing something that they don't agree with because of their ideology.

And with a lot of the people, these are people that eat meat, which is really weird. It's like you're eating meat and you're dismissing someone who's doing one of the most difficult things in the world with meat. Yeah. Well, I guarantee, you know, I know there's people out there who don't hunt who respect animals. You know, I get that. But those people could never have the same amount of respect, I don't think, as a hunter who knows what it takes to survive up there, what it takes to outwit the animal up there, what it takes to be successful and to get the meat off the mountain after you've harvested one.

The amount of respect that whole process builds in a hunter, there's no way somebody who hasn't done it could appreciate or match. I don't know whether or not they could appreciate it as much. I just don't think they understand the experience. I don't think they understand the experience. I don't think they understand the beauty that some people find in that experience, because I think in their eyes, if you take life, this is a negative thing and a terrible thing. But the way I always kind of look at it, like that, there's a storm going on out there. Okay. Close your door, watch Game of Thrones, sit in your air-conditioned apartment, drink your soda,

and like, oh, life is beautiful. I don't know why anybody would go out there and kill an animal. There's a storm of animals killing animals out there. It's happening right now. While we're sitting in this beautiful air-conditioned studio here in lovely Woodland Hills, California, there is a fucking storm where coyotes are killing deer and bears are killing each other. And that fucking picture that we posted that you showed me that I said I was going to post

later today of that polar bear carrying around that cub's head. Yeah. Fuck, man. That's real life. That's going on right now. And all you're doing as a hunter is you're choosing to not go the factory farm route and to make this experience of gathering your food a massive challenge and an incredibly rewarding experience and you you connect yourself to the wild in some really bizarre way that i

never understood until i started doing it once i I started, like, I always thought, well, this is probably the better way to get meat. But once I started doing it. This logically, you thought it made sense, right? Exactly. Yeah. But I had no real connection. No. But when you get that spiritual connection with, you know, the animals, the country,

the challenge, your own human spirit and what it takes. That's where the powerful, how powerful hunting is really is driven home. Well, it's just, it's kind of psychedelic in a way. And people have gotten mad at me because I've said this. And this is what I mean by psychedelic. I mean, even hunting an animal and looking in its eyes is psychedelic in some sort of a weird way. Because it's paradigm shifting and it sort of changes your view. It takes you out of, it's a perspective shifting thing.

Because when you're actually in this animal's environment, you're in this really quiet forest. And you're sneaking up on this animal and you're pursuing it and you're hunting it and you lock eyes with this thing. And in this animal's world, this animal doesn't know anything about culture. It doesn't know anything about your traditions or your rules or your ideas or your ethics or what you think should and shouldn't be done. This thing is just trying to survive. That's it.

In some very strange way where it is, not only is it trying to survive, it's trying to keep other things from doing what it wants to do. Like it wants to stab these other deer with its antlers so that they can't fuck the girls that it wants to fuck. It wants to pass on its genes in some incredibly primitive competition yeah this gene competition that's going on in some sort of a way where they're not they're not they're not intellectualizing it no they're not thinking about it like well what i want to do is pass on my name because my boys are going to

be the haynes boys and the haynes boys never quit you know they're not thinking like that they're not thinking there's no nobleness it all it is is survival and and breeding it's some sort of a nature mathematics thing that's going on and you know this this world is this savage primal crazy world and what you're doing as a hunter is entering into that world. Now, what people who don't hunt don't seem to understand is that the people that do hunt are responsible directly for the population increase of all these animals. And it's very contradictory in a lot of ways. These people that don't, like the people that don't like hunting but love animals don't understand that the numbers are where they are now directly because of people contributing to wildlife preservation, to habitat preservation, and to making sure that wildlife biologists manage these areas properly. Right. And that's a hard pill to swallow for people who love animals.

That's a hard pill to swallow for people who love animals. But the people who are spending the most amount of money to keep these animals healthy want to go kill them and eat them. Yeah. It's like many things in life. It doesn't necessarily add up the way you would like it to. It seems contradictory, but hunters are why there's more. We looked this up last time. More deer, elk, bear, turkey numbers than there ever has been in North America. So, I mean, I think elk is well, elk doesn't occupy as much area as it used to be.

But that was because the assholes who were around in the 1800s who came along first or the 16, 17 and 1800s, they just shot the shit out of them. Yeah. You know, and they were doing it for meat to stay alive. A lot of it was also Dan Flores, who was on Ronella's podcast. If you haven't listened to that, the Meat Eater podcast, listen to this one because it's sensational. He's a wildlife historian and he talks about the history of wildlife in North America. And the same guys that killed off massive amounts of buffalo in this country and almost made them extinct, they did the same thing with prongh extinct. They did the same thing with pronghorns.

They did the same thing with elk. These were guys who came back from the wars, and they just had no skills other than killing things. And this was a way to make money for the market. So they would go out and just slaughter, wholesale slaughter of these animals. And when they ran out of buffalo, they turned to the antelope yeah and for hide and for all these other things and you know human beings can be this incredibly thoughtless consumer and i think that that's that's that connection for it's unfairly connected to hunting yeah in some sort of a way well no and that's you know hunters nowadays i think we're doing a good job of driving home the point, hunting is conservation.

You know, Rocky Mountain Elk has helped. They coined that term, and it's true. You know, hunters are out there doing the work, paying the money. Yeah, we're killing animals, but it's to the benefit of the animals also. Well, Ben O'Brien has an interesting take on that. Our friend Ben O'Brien, who used to work at peterson's and now um works at yeti coolers he he says conservation

is something that comes along by product it's a byproduct of it but the really it's about hunting yeah and i think that's the that's the honest answer oh no i'm when i'm out there hunting i'm not thinking i need to be the best conservationist i can't i mean no right i'm out there hunting i'm not thinking i need to be the best conservationist i can't i mean no right i'm out there to be successful but that mantra gets kind of it's it's an argument mantra yeah it's like people that are hunting are dealing with so much pressure from people that are angry about hunting right that and then this is a different world too because you were saying when you grew up that hunters were thought of as like, wow, this guy provides for his family. He goes out and does this incredibly difficult thing.

It's very noble. Hunters were looked at with respect. I mean, you looked up to a hunter. You're like, you know, if somebody was successful, did you get your elk this year? Yeah. Oh, man. You know, that guy, he's a stud. It's tough to do.

Tough to do. He went out and did it. You know, so hunters were put on a pedestal when i grew in the town i grew up right where i lived and it was there was something you know you had pride that you hunted well this is what i think is good about all this controversy that when you were doing this when you were young there was no social media and so you weren't engaging with people that thought in a contrary way, that thought different, that were upset by your actions. And they weren't engaging with you either. Right.

They looked at hunters like Elmer Fudd. You know, they looked at him like some guy. Hunters in a movie are always this drunk guy who's like out there shooting at anything that moves. The bad guy. Always a bad guy. Always a bad guy. Always a bad guy. And that was their perception.

And your perception was based on your environment where you're in, you know, this area that's pretty, pretty rural. There's a lot of wildlife, a lot of hunters, and it's a super normal part of the environment, the culture. So these people that are urban, that are just conditioned to thinking of animals as being pets that you love and food as being something that gets you get from a grocery store even the people that buy meat they're not involved in any way shape or form in the killing of that meat so they're completely disconnected from it so this even though there's like this craziness going on where these animal rights people are saying i hope your mother gets raped and killed and murdered and gutted in front of your children and all this crazy shit that I've seen Yeah, these angry angry people that think of well. I don't know if there's a lot going on. I don't know if they're actually Angry in as much that may in like a logical progression where it makes sense

Or it's if it's just they feel like they have the right to go after you because you're killing things. And they're really just fucking imbalanced. There's a lot of that. And there's a lot of imbalanced people that do really good things because it allows them to be really aggressive in their negative behavior. There's some people that love to be negative, and they love to be aggressive,

and they love to be shitty and insulting and hostile. And the way to ensure that that behavior is not just accepted, but actually rewarded is to be negative and hostile and even violent for a good cause. And so they're masking, they're really psychotic, fucked up behavior. Like it's one of the things like people's like being uh being an animal rights person or being a vegan is about compassion except when you're talking to people yeah that don't agree with you right and then you're allowed to get fucking super hostile and super negative and violent and self-righteous call us murderers and say we deserve to die and they'd like to kill us. So they're tolerant until, you know, there's a cause.

A cause that, you know, is you have to actually think to justify and you have to actually look at the big picture. But when it's easy and say, oh, you hunt, you're a murderer. Right. I wish you were dead. That's easy. Yeah, well, it's, and I understand it. I understand it.

I understand where they're coming from and I understand their perspective as someone who actually does love animals. I understand that this contradiction is very difficult to deal with. And that's one of the things that I think is important about this new age of interaction is that some people are kind of getting the message like, okay, I thought that this thing was about these people that hated animals that went out and shot them and killed them. But now I'm seeing that this thing also has a lot of different layers to it. And there's a broad range of these people. And the noble ones are actually doing not just a service to the wildlife. They're stewards of the wildlife and stewards of the land. And they're also, they're getting their food. They're getting the healthiest food that a person can eat from the wild. And that this idea that you can somehow or another have no harm and do no harm to animals.

Well, that's not true. You can't do no harm. You say, well, you could do less harm. Depends on what you think less harm means. Because if you're talking about bugs or bugs life, if you're talking about rodents, if you're talking about things that get chewed up when they process grain, you're not...

Animals are dying. And if you procreate, boy, that's a fucking ball of wax right there. That's a bag of worms or whatever it is what is the expression bag of worms bag of wax bag of wax if you procreate boy you're you're you you are creating a beautiful little baby human being that is going to consume and it's going to cause waste it's going to burn fossil fuels into the atmosphere it's going to cause waste. It's going to burn fossil fuels into the atmosphere. It's going to promote global warming.

It's going to have plastic that most likely will wash up into the ocean. It's going to be a consumer of all these things. And there's no way around that. So if you love people like I do, I fucking love people. People are destroyers. Yeah. Just like, you know, just like bears eat cubs. People make a certain amount of waste.

Yeah. And hopefully we can figure out a way to balance that out as people get more and more complex in their ability to utilize recycled materials and maybe even possibly turn some of the waste that we pump out into the air. There was discussion about that, about extracting pollution from the air and using it as fuel. There'd be some way to do that. And I know that scientists are actually trying to come up with feasible methods of taking places that are just like really polluted and actually using that pollutants or those pollutants and turning it into some sort of a product that we can use. They're smarter than me. I know that. And me too.

But I'm helpful. I'm hopeful. But what I'm saying is that we're all in some way responsible for some sort of an impact on the world that we live in. And just like dogs shit on the ground. Yeah. And, you know, cats kill every fucking thing they get a chance to. That's their design.

That's what they're supposed to do. Well, there's nothing more eco-friendly than a hunter. I can tell you that. You know, if you're talking about helping the environment, getting out there, killing yourself, processing it, bringing it home, that's, you know, that's about as good as it gets as far as eco-friendly. And I think, I think we're getting that message out there on the positive attributes of hunting. I mean, we've talked about this a number of times. You've talked about it with other guests a number of times. And I see, yeah, I still see a lot of hate, anger, misunderstanding, not misunderstanding,

but they don't want to understand. It doesn't feel like, but on the other side, I get messages from a lot of people who are saying, I've never thought about hunting that way. I'm interested in providing for myself. I want to be self-sufficient. I'm trying, I'm getting a bow. So, I mean, yeah, we're doing good things also. I mean, I know we talk about the negative a lot and we focus on that. I mean, I, you know, if you look at it, if you look at my social media stuff, I do notice the negatives, um, probably too much. So, I mean, I know we talk about that, but man, there's a lot of positive out there too. There's way more positive than there is negative now, but you know, there's, it's all what you focus on. If you decided to focus on the negative,

there'd be way more negative. Yeah. I mean, you could definitely find it. Yeah. You know, put hashtag vegan on all your posts And watch what happens That's what you do. I only did it once oh my god. I think it's so upset It was over a joke. It was a joke, but it was it had meat in it. Yeah, I can't handle jokes No, but I think that um Just these conversations. They're they're important. It's It's also important for people that are enchanted by maybe a more radical animal activist perspective. And, you know, it seems to make sense.

But sometimes that needs to be balanced out. And you need to consider both sides. And you need to consider both sides. And I think the hunting side is not represented enough in an intelligent way where it balances out some of the more radical and also proselytizing. Like they're trying to convert people into their world in a lot of ways. Like a lot of people that are animal rights people or vegan people are really actively trying to get people to do what they do. And get super upset when people find it unhealthy or no longer do it. Meanwhile, 95% of the world consumes meat.

95%. But when people go back, and that used to be vegan, they say, fucking my whole body's falling apart, my hair's falling out, my skin's turning dry, I have no energy. And this is really common. People say, well, it's because you're doing it wrong. Not necessarily. There's a lot of aspects. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't do it, but there's a lot of aspects that if you talk to an actual scientist, real nutritionist, people who are experts in human biology and the direct mechanisms of absorbing nutrients. There's some real issues with plant versions of many different things, including vitamin

B12, a bunch of different fatty acids that although they are active in some plants and seeds and oils, which are probably good for you, they're actually not nearly as bioavailable as fatty fish and DHEA and a lot of different essential fatty acids, acids omegas threes and sixes and all these different things They're more more biologically available to human beings in animal form and this is just science This is getting a what forget about the idea that you shouldn't do it Just let's talk about like what is good for the human body itself boy It's it's fucking hard to get the same stuff from plants. And if it's important to you and you want to do it, you can do it.

You can. But my driver yesterday, he switched and was a vegan. He's a vegan now. And so he's telling me that actually since he started with his veganism, he eats way less healthy because while he's not eating meat, he's eating potato chips and he's eating all these carbs and all these empty carbs. And it's just like, yeah, so I'm not eating meat, but man, I feel terrible and I'm eating awful Doritos. Yeah. There's no meat in Doritos, but not that great for you. Well, Sam Harris, who was on our podcast recently,

he recently converted to being a vegan as well because of the honest concerns with factory farming and things along those lines. And his blood lipids are all fucked up. He's like, I've got to figure this out. Because you're eating carbs all the time. Your insulin spikes, your blood sugar level spikes. It's just not necessarily healthy unless you have to approach it the right way.

You got to eat a lot of like healthy fatty things like almond butter is really important and nuts, macadamia nuts. You got to find a way to get oils and fats from your foods and also the way that affects brain function. Like it's really important that you have a certain amount of omegas to really have your fucking brain conduct properly. It's like having good spark plugs in your fucking car. Well, I eat a lot of meat and I feel pretty healthy. But it's also there's a debate where, you know, you say, well, someone who is a vegan does less harm and that there's there's

definitely an argument for that if you accept a hierarchy of life and this is where it gets tricky because what they're saying is that you should not think that a human being's life is more important than an animal's life because that's speciesism all right have you heard that this is new i well i saw uh kat von d put up a little thing on her instagram and it had it had like um man at the top of the food chain basically and that was labeled as ego and then it had man mixed in with all the other animals and that was eco that's interesting well eco is man mixed in with all the other animals if you eat them if you consume them the way they consume each other i like i'm not saying it it's egotistical but i'm saying man is the top of the food chain well yeah duh and i don't have i

don't i'm not hiding that fact i don't feel bad about that. I'm a big fan of people. But also Kat Von D needs to consider, and I love Kat, her tattoos are most likely not vegan. Ink is made with animal products. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's a part of tattoo ink. I mean, they do have some vegan inks now, but the idea

that all those tattoos that she has are all vegan seem ridiculous. Right. Yeah. I don't know if what's better. Is vegan ink as good? I wonder if it's less good. I don't know. I wonder if it's like vegan chicken. I'm going to start protesting it.

Yeah. But my point is accepting the hierarchy of life, because if you buy commercial grain, you're directly responsible for an industry that kills a lot of beings. Now, are the pesticides, unless you buy everything organic from a fucking hand-picked farm, and you absolutely know that no one had any, absolutely no pesticides were done, no one had anything that they put into the ground that's dangerous to any of the life, that's not likely.

No. The likely case is that if you're buying pasta, or if you're buying rice, or if you're buying any of these things, you're buying these things from some sort of a farm that displaces wildlife, kills massive amounts of rodents and bugs and all these different things. And is a bug worth as much as the life of an elk? We need to make this discussion. This is an important distinction. Is a mouse worth as much as a white-tailed deer? Right.

I don't know if it is, but I know that millions of rodents are killed in this country every year with green combines. Well, and with that illustration where all the animals are mixed in with the man, I guess everybody's equal, right? So why would it be okay to have wheat harvested, buzzards flying all around that field because of all the carnage down below, and they're scavengers. So all the rodents, all the rabbits, all the pheasants, even white-tailed fawn maybe, all the animals that are killed down there, they're coming down to eat those. So in the harvest of that wheat bread, or the wheat for the bread, all these animals

died. Well, if everything's equal, why is that okay, but hunting isn't? It doesn't make any sense. No. But it's a convenient way of looking at things. And it's also like bug spray i used to live near an ashram in boulder and uh the fucking lady who ran the ashram was poisoning ants and i go hey what are you doing yeah and she was using ant poison she's like well we do what we have to sometimes when we

have ants i go you're not supposed to you're a, she's a vegan, and you don't believe in killing life unless it is Conti bugs that tried to invade your camp, and then you kill them in mass with toxic chemicals you spray from the sky in these canisters of death. I mean, what a weird sort of a game you're playing in your head about life and death. And is an insect's life worth less than a mammal's life? Well, why is that? Well, because an insect is not as much aware. You ever try to swat a fly?

Yeah. There's a reason why they get the fuck out of the way. They don't want to die. They know. Okay? So, but is an insect's life worth less than a mouse? Some people would say yes. Okay.

Why is that? Well, a mouse, it people would say yes. Okay. Why is that? Well, a mouse, it's got its emotions. Okay, okay. All right. Well, then we're accepting a hierarchy. Well, these animals, they can't communicate. They're not as good as people. Okay?

So we're going to eat them. Yeah. Because it makes you healthier. I mean, is that, are we accepting this? No, we're not. Well, then you got to stop eating grain, man,'re you're a part of wholesale slaughter you have to well i think it goes back to uh there's a lot of hypocritical people out there but they're they're proselytizing this is where it gets really weird i was watching this guy give this argument about how human beings are not designed to eat meat

that's why we can't kill an animal with our hands and our teeth and we we have to cook it in order to process it that's the only way our body consumes it well guess what fuck face try eating wheat yeah try pulling rice out of the ground and eating that we process everything man we process wheat we process rice we process many grains and beans we process a lot of shit because we're smart yeah we figured out how to use tools a long time ago yeah we figured out how to burn things it makes them more compatible and your body adjusted to the fact you were cooking off the bacteria in these things all the time your gut flora changes there's a whole

process going on man there's a whole evolutionary process involving tools and fire and that's why we have cities and that's why you have a fucking youtube account where you can make these ridiculous claims in the first place it's all designed by people overcoming the wild environment because i don't know if you checked but we're fleshy little water balloons of blood that's what we are we're really vulnerable without all these tools and all these houses and all these fucking people that figured out fire and metal and all this shit long before you were alive. The reason why you're alive today is because really ingenious, inventive, industrious people figured out how to survive in a world where we're weak as shit. We're weak and vulnerable.

And animals come in and just are jacking things left and right. And we're out there with our little baby in this world. Did you hear about the fucking 15-year-old kid that got pulled out of a fucking tent by a hyena by his face? Yeah. He got yanked out of a fucking tent by his face. Oh, we're going to go on a happy camping trip. This kid is just hanging out in the natural world.

Yeah. I love animals. They love you, too, you fuck. They love to eat you. Look at this. Boy 15 had his face chewed by a hyena as he slept in a tent next to his parents. Yeah. In the Kruger National Park.

Yeah, that's the real deal there. His bones were crushed like a packet of crisps. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, my God. Hyenas are brutal. Teen was conscious throughout the attack and now undergoing surgery.

He didn't die, huh? Only saved when his uncle heard him being dragged like a blanket. Hyena was looking for food and had been seen in the week before the attack. If you've ever seen a hyena, those things are, I mean, they're killers. Well, that's why they're there. That's why they're there. Nature has this very efficient system. All they do is kill.

And they don't care what it is, they're killing it. Well, Africa in particular is so fascinating to me. I was going to go on vacation there with my family this year, but I found out we'd have to get a bunch of shots. When you went to Tanzania, did you get a bunch of shots? Yeah. Fuck all that. I'm not giving my six-year-old some crazy shots well they can endure zika that well it's not malaria yeah that's a big one how much did you have to what kind of shots did you have to get i don't know i got like

i think four different shots but you know when i was in in camp there there was uh one of the workers there had malaria it's not what you want to get. What was it like? He's just weak and sick. Giving them antibiotics? I don't know what they're doing. I wonder if they even have antibiotics in a lot

of places, right? I don't know. It's a lot different than here. It's a brutal place. Life is brutal in this weird cycle. We are different than here. But it's a brutal place. Well, life is brutal in this weird cycle. We are so soft here. I mean, I just think we're getting weaker and weaker. But yeah, over there, if you're weak, you're gone. Well, everywhere where it's hard, when things get rough, when things are not rough, that's when people can relax.

And that's one of the beautiful things about cities. Yeah. That we figured out a way to put up these concrete structures that nothing can get in. No wild things can get in. You can take a break. Relax and eat chips. Get fat. And I hate it here.

I like it. I like it in the mountains where I am vulnerable. Where, you know, hopefully my training and my experience and whatever keeps me alive but also there's a weird sort of electric feeling to that world this like i want to say electric but it's like a stimulating feeling to that world when you're walking around in that world and you're acutely aware that you are now part of this system and that you could turn the wrong corner run into a fucking grizzly bear you could turn the wrong corner and run into a mountain lion and it doesn't happen a lot but it could happen you could fall you know like your

friend roy so it's uh yeah i mean that's where i mean that's where i feel most alive obviously because you have to be you know if you're not in tune, who knows what happens. It seems like also that there's some reward systems that are built into being a human being that get little switches that get snapped on when you're out there that I didn't even know existed. And it's what I've seen with many people who are very smart people who become hunters, who, uh, then they start talking about it and they articulate really similar thoughts

that it becomes the, the, the, the, the act of consuming becomes very different when you acquire it the hard way. Yeah. Same as there's a feeling that you get is a much more muted version of it, but there's a really good feeling that you get when you grow a salad and you're eating that salad that you grew in your own yard. Yeah. But that's a much more muted.

It's a, it's a beautiful feeling. It feels nice. It feels satisfying, but it's much more muted. Like when I cook an elk steak, it's something that I, I, I was there for the entire time.

It was there when it got shot, helped cut it up and carry it out. There's a memory attached to that. There's a primal satisfaction attached to that. And there's also this feeling like, I know that thing wasn't penned up. I know that thing didn't get stuffed full of hormones. I know that thing didn't penned up. I know that thing didn't get stuffed full of hormones. I know that thing didn't get tortured before it died. I know it wasn't corralled into this area and then they shoot a fucking piston into its brain while it's watching all of its friends die in the same way. Yeah.

I know it. I don't know if they have friends, though. They have buddies. They hang out. They have pin in the pen. They hang out. They have a pit in the pen. They hang out until pussy's out, like many other friends. Then the backstabbing begins. Literally, they stab each other in the back with their antlers.

It's brutal out there. That connection a hunter has with the animal and just being able to bring that home and, and cook it up and sit around the table. That's just with your family. I mean, that's how it's always been. That's how it's always been since the beginning of time. Being a provider is a powerful thing. And I wonder if this new trend away from that, I wonder what's going on with human beings. And if it is just a natural progression of creating structures and safety and society in the sense of the civilization the way we think of it today I wonder if it's a natural sort of a progression to slowly but surely move away from that world that wild world and to

get more and more accustomed with the idea of us creating our own food from some other way like by detaching from how you grow your vegetables by detaching from where your meat comes from that we're like setting ourselves up to go further and further down this road of not really being an animal anymore being some new kind of weird thing well i'm i'm not going that way you're not going that way well you're not going that way this this at No. In this life, you're in this sort of a transitionary stage, or the culture is, or society is, or human beings are. You're digging it. I'm digging it as a hunter. You're going old school.

I'm staying old school. But me as a person who's like half-assed scientist who tries to study human beings, tries to figure out what the fuck I'm doing. I wouldn't even use the word scientist loosely. That's just like something else, whatever I am. But when I look at it, I'm always like, what is going on here?

Because there's clearly something going on with human beings as an organism. Like there's something going on where we're moving away from the natural world with cities. We're moving away from the natural world with our ability to control our environment. It's as fuck outside right now and you and i feel great how are you feeling jamie feel great ac is nice right it's beautiful so we figured out a way to live in these harsh environments with no consequences whatsoever except on in the environment itself there's consequences about the but there's also this detachment from the concerns of the world And it's one of the things that I've always said about LA is that LA is one of the most unnatural places in the world Yeah, because not just because everyone's full of shit because they're trying to get you to think there's something they're not so you put them in

A TV show or a movie but also because it doesn't rain here. Yeah, it's always perfect. You could sleep outside and you're fine Yeah, there's always perfect. You could sleep outside and you're fine. Yeah. There's not that much wildlife to worry about. There's so many mountain lions that killed all the deer. You don't even get in car accidents against deer. Like, our connection to wildlife is, like, fucking nil. Yeah. I don't think being comfortable all the time,

I don't think, you know, L.A. and cities like L.A., it's not good. you know, LA and cities like LA, I don't, it's not good. I mean, it's not good to, to, uh, eliminate all the challenges of being a human. I mean, that's why, that's why I like getting out there and just being immersed in challenge because I don't know. I mean, how do you appreciate how good you have it when you never have it hard? That is a big point. That's a big point. It's a big point that was hammered home for me when I came back from Prince of Wales. Unsuccessful hunt. Yeah.

We're out there for five or six days, I think. And it was pouring rain every day. It was cold as shit. Every day your fingers are pruned up and you're freezing your dick off and you just can't wait to get back home. And when I got back home to L.A., my God, it was glorious. I called up Ronell. I go, dude, I don't think I've ever been happier in my life. Every day was like so nice.

It felt so good. Like it was so nice to see my friends. It was so nice to see the sun. I called up Callan and he said the same thing. He's like, dude, I feel great. I just feel so thankful to be back. I feel so thankful to be in a city where I don't have to worry about where my food comes from. I don't have to worry about starving to death.

It makes you appreciate this weird thing that we've gotten. And I think when you don't experience both things, that's when you take it for granted. Yeah. Yeah. So if you never would have went, you've never had those feelings. Yeah. You know, and I think it's important. I think it's, that's why I like when people want to take on the challenge of hunting, want to learn more about it.

The byproduct, yeah, we've talked about the positive byproduct is you're a conservationist. Another byproduct is you're going to realize what it's like to be uncomfortable. And then you're, you know, conversely, you you're gonna realize how good we have it yeah and um how you appreciate being able to walk up to the tap and fill a glass with water i mean in the i've been on a lot of hunts where just getting water was like okay here's the focus of the day i need to find water yeah that's it when you were drinking buffalo piss water. Yeah. When you guys were in, this is a crazy story because it also involved crocodiles. Yeah.

When you guys were in Australia, you decided, you and crazy fucking Adam Greentree, decided let's bring no food and go out into the bush where it's 120 degrees. We'll definitely shoot a buffalo and we'll just eat that. Yeah. Yeah. We were going to, we were going, quote, live off the land. He's probably just happy he found someone dumb enough to do that with him. Mate, I can't believe you listened to me, mate. Everybody else tells me to fuck off.

Yeah. Him and Owen Strano was there, too. But Owen, I think he might have brought man did he what he have maybe a some kind of uh a bar i don't know what he had i had half of a trail mix thing that i bought at the airport you know and that that was like gold but yeah so we were gonna live off the land and uh yeah it was it was miserable but uh so did he talk you into this was it your idea or his idea like who's it was miserable. So did he talk you into this? Was it your idea or his idea? It was his idea. Of course.

No, it was great. No, I thought it sounded awesome. He's out there shooting horses and cats and shit. Come on, let's live off the land. No, I thought it sounded great. I mean, it was fine. I'm used to being miserable. A little food would have been nice because, as you know, like I said today, I need to eat like every hour.

Yeah, because you run so much. Actually, I'm starving right now. Before we launch the new Cameron Haynes podcast, which we will this afternoon, we'll get you a protein bar. There you go. All right. I saw a Quest bar back there. Yeah, there's a lot. We've got boxes of shit back there.

Plenty of food. I'm going to steal. But, yeah, so just living off the land took on a whole another challenge to a hard hunt already and so i was down for sure so you guys were eating only things that you had shot and then drinking water that you found and the water that you found was all filled with buffalo piss yeah because again too many buffalo i mean and when you say too many if you if anybody's ever watched any of the videos on the numbers of buffalo from asia these are enormous what are they cape buffalo what are they no these are water buffalo water buffalo yeah and nor cape buffalo is the african one that

fight the lions yep enormous giant beasts that are there's no videos on my heards huge huge herds of these things. Yeah. No, but they're pretty wary still. I mean, they're big animals, but they're not quite as wary as a Cape buffalo, I don't think, because they don't have lions hunting them. Right. You know, but when they're around water, they're used to the crocodiles being in there. They definitely are used to looking out for themselves. So they're huge animals.

They can be dangerous just because they're so big. But they're survivors, for sure. That's another weird animal they hunt in Australia. They hunt domestic cows. They call them scrub bulls. Scrub bulls, yeah. And what a scrub bull is is a domestic cow that got loose many, many generations ago and now have become completely feral and you're dealing with bulls.

Yeah. And you know how like when you ride bulls, folks, that they buck and kick and you know how the matador stands in the middle and the bull just fucking charges him, tries to kill him? Yeah. That's what bulls do in the wild times 10. Yeah. So you have these super hyper-aggressive masses of muscle.

And this is a video. It says Cam's Raw. What does it say? What is the name? Cam's Raw and Uncut Aussie Water Buff Heart Shot. Yeah. And this is you sneaking up on this massive animal. Yeah.

And you've got to walk super slow. Yeah. The thing about it is they'll pick up movement but as he's feeding there um i know i can move so i just go very slow i have my range finder up near my face so i don't have to reach for it and do a bunch of extra movement there but if you uh how far away is he right here probably 50 yards now with the animals is that big why did you decide to keep walking towards them uh closer is better with the bow right so you felt like you could get closer yeah so you might as well just keep going until you realize that you have to draw yeah he uh when he i'm waiting for him to get broadside because with an animal that big um you have to you just have to wait for a

good broadside shot and so here i am ranging him as i walk and now he's getting ready to go broadside that's an important point man because shot placement is something that people that don't understand hunting don't know how difficult it is to not just have a shot on an animal but have an animal be in position to take the shot i was watching a television show on guys that were hunting water buffalo with a bow and arrow. And I saw a guy take a frontal shot. See, he's, he's look, he's not feeding. So I'm not moving because he's, his head's up with his peripheral. He could see me. So he thinks something's going on here. He probably caught something. I mean, his ears covering his eye right there. You got to be that, that focused. So I know he's not looking at me right now, but he had, he might've thought he saw something.

So he's just kind of chilling out, chewing his cud. How hard is it to stay still here? It's, it's all right, but I need, I need him to go broadside. I need that close leg to go forward. Cause if I just draw back and shoot, you know, without that, guaranteed going to be unsuccessful. So I need that leg to go forward, that close leg right here. Now that opened up his vitals. Boom. Perfect. Right in there. And how far away was that? That was 39 yards.

So their heart sits, I mean, you see that blood coming out it's pouring out the heart sits like right next to their thigh right it's forward it's forward from an elk would be a little more back but basically you have to go right through that front leg and uh i shot a really heavy arrow a 90 pound that's a 90 pound whitet right there. And you can see he's, he's already weak. So it's only been, you know, maybe a minute and he's not even, he's about done. So you have to actually shoot through the leg itself to get to the heart unless he's quartering away from you, maybe? Yeah. Quartering away. The problem is they're so big. So if it's two, two quartering away, um, their stomach's big and it's full of grass.

So that could essentially be like for an arrow to go all the way through a bunch of grass, wet grass. Right. I mean, probably not going to happen. And you're shooting through ribs that are as thick as two by fours. Two by fours, right. What a crazy animal. He's about bled out right here. And the thing with a bow, I mean, these things fight each other. So he has no idea what happened. I mean, he's just like no clue there. He's used to getting

jabbed with horns or tree branches or all sorts of stuff. All he knows is he's lost a lot of blood and boom, it's over. Crazy. Yeah. Now you guys, when you went there and you didn't bring any water with you, you had to filter that piss water somehow, right? Yeah. What do you, what do you filter it with? We had a water filter and we had a SteriPEN. What's that? It's just like ultraviolet light. You put in the water, you hit it with the ultraviolet light and then it, it supposedly disinfects the water. Supp water supposedly is a key word the only reason why i throw out that is because we filtered it we steripened it we poured it through a shirt and it still smelled like buffalo piss well it is buffalo piss but we drank it

sterilized buffalo piss we drank it and we didn't die i saw something online the other day. They were trying to figure out how much of the ocean is whale piss. Like, how many whales are there? Yeah. How long have they been peeing in the ocean? Right. How much of that, where does it go? How much of the ocean is whale piss? Somebody should protest them doing that.

Those dirty, stinky whales. Yeah, so selfish. I saw a sad thing, though, man, where this whale died and when the whale was died and when they uh the whale was beached they examined the contents of its stomach and it was filled with fishing nets and plastic bags because apparently whales eat a lot of squid and they get confused at that stuff like plastic bags and things along those lines and they think that it's food oh and then they got

intestinal blockage so it died by being backed up yeah that's a rough way to go that is too bad they don't have whale doctors either in the ocean where they go hey doc i'm uh not feeling so good here something something's going on i haven't shit in a week let me check you out yeah no my whale piss is coming out bloody not good the world the world of harsh nature we live in that world we just don't think we do because we've created this super cool thing called cities yeah i don't think it's so cool but it is definitely cool created it you're crazy you're wearing clothes that was created in cities. You got a watch that was created in cities. Your bow was created in a city.

I have a fit band. I don't have a watch. Oh, same thing. Doesn't it tell you the time? I think it does, yeah. Come on. It's got to tell you the time. It says I got all-time record seven hours and 49 minutes of sleep.

Oh, that's an all-time record? Well, for recently. Congratulations. Congratulations is in order. It is. That's what happens when you get? Well, for recently. So congratulations. Congratulations is in order. It is. That's what happens when you get to stay in a hotel and you have to work that day. Yeah. No, it actually does have the time. Sorry.

There you go. So you got to watch. Yeah. You also have a car that you have to drive around to get to these hunting spots. That's all created in a city. I have a bow. You got a bow. All this technology created by people in civilization that were allowed to relax, not worried about being eaten by wolves.

And they said, hey, these regular bows that we're using are kind of bullshit. We need some cams on these things. As you pull it back, it lets off at a certain weight, and then it's got more power going forward. And a bunch of engineers went to schools, and they wrote things down on paper and on computers, all that stuff created in cities. They wrote things down on paper and on computers all that stuff created in cities Yeah, so like the city and the this Transition that some organisms are going through from wild to civilized actually makes it possible for you to exist in the wild world Again, just like the hunting is conservation thing how ironic

And how there is something positive to a city fuck yeah is that what you're saying oh 100% 100% listen man I'm not into working in a factory for 16 hours a day making iPhones but if somebody wasn't I wouldn't have an iPhone

and I wouldn't be able to tell you that you gotta press that button twice in order to shut off your apps I did learn something today slick you

we all need each other that was awesome and for a guy like you who is so invested in living in the wild and having this challenge of being in the wild, you need your nice Under Armour clothes to keep you comfy and warm and dry when you're out there. You got your Under Armour boots that were made in some sort of a factory and designed by some sort of an engineer. And you got your watch that tells you what altitude you're at. All that stuff is a part of your experience in this wild world.

You got your gear and you got your sat phone so you can call home. Hey, I just shot the biggest bull in my life out here in the wild. I'm talking to you from a fucking satellite 300 miles in space. But that's one reason why I'm not the greatest when they send me stuff to try out because I like being miserable. I'm not the greatest when they send me stuff to try out because I like being miserable. I'm not the greatest for feedback. Say, hey, how'd it perform? You like being slightly miserable.

Otherwise you'd go out there naked. Right, right. You know, because that's one of the big arguments that the non-hunters will use against the hunter. Like, yeah, you're a real man? Why don't you go kill that fucking elk with your hands? Right. Why don't you go kill with your hands, you fucking coward? Well, that's not the way to do it, dummy.

Because you're not going to kill any of them. You won't kill them. That's not how you kill them. Right. You know, just like a rattlesnake doesn't kill you unless it uses poison. A rattlesnake just tried to, if a rattlesnake didn't have any poison and wanted to fight me, what are you going to do? Are you going to stab me with your little stupid needles?

Right. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to crush your fucking head with a rock, stupid, because I have an imposable thumb. So after you stab me with your needle that doesn't have any venom in it because you want to play fair, oh, look, I grab you by your head, I smash you with a rock, I win, dummy. Wait, that makes sense, though.

Dang it. Well, it makes sense because I'm a human being, and I come from a long line of human beings. Human beings have been thinking, and more importantly, we've been communicating. We've been communicating with language and we remember things that we learned and we pass it on to others. So I think what's going on now, even though it seems negative and it seems weird in the world of wildlife and hunting and hunters versus people who don't hunt, I think ultimately it all balances out really well because it all balances out in an honest way.

There's going to be people that don't agree with things no matter what, just like there's going to be people that don't agree with a lot of different things that a lot of people think are fine. There's going to be disagreements, but in those disagreements we're going to find arguments that make sense and arguments that don't make sense. We're going to find arguments that make sense and arguments that don't make sense. We're going to find people that are disingenuous and that are not being totally honest with scientific facts about nutrition, scientific facts about whether or not humans are omnivores or herbivores. There's a lot of dishonesty because these debates are not debates about facts and reason.

They're debates about ideology. And they only promote and subscribe to ideas that benefit their ideology. That's it. And you get it on both sides. That's one of the problems with the hunting is conservation. Hunting's hunting. Ben O'Brien's got it right. Conservation's a byproduct of hunting. And hunting, even if it wasn't conservation. It was just it was just something you do to eat. Mm-hmm. It's still It's still good. Yeah. Yeah, still good. No this conversation is important though. Yeah people You guys can talk about honey. You can you gonna justify your honey? That's a big one man All you guys do is justify your honey

Yeah, it's true It's communication. yeah about something that you know i read your fucking instagram yeah it's important it's uh yeah i mean that's i don't i try not to engage in the in the negative stuff on the on instagram but i do i do talk about the positive attributes of hunting i show you know um skinning out bear I show my freezer full of meat. I show working hard to be the most effective ethical hunter I can be. So, yeah, I try to share all of it. Yeah, but you also have people that back you up.

That's kind of interesting. People know that. So you don't have to really engage. You've got a bunch of Cam Haines soldiers out there. Thanks, guys. Your fucking Instagram page is a battlefield. Whenever you put some animal up oh my goodness and it's a lot of europeans oh i know it's just weird they're they're the most detached

because they have the fewest percentage of hunters over there yeah i mean i always get stuff from over there they just have no concept or people even brazil you know you get just brazil's a big one yeah it's a big one yeah a lot of's a big one. Yeah. A lot of hate from there. Yeah. Someone was talking to me about that the other day. Someone was saying, like, how many people get upset about it might have been Shane. Was it Shane Dorian? But there's what when you hear the Robin Hood story, like when people think about Robin Hood, he robs the rich and gives the poor.

What people don't understand is that was originally about food. It was about him being able to hunt on private land that the king owned because people were starving. That was the original story of Robin Hood. It was about Robin Hood going out and shooting these animals and bringing meat back to people. Because in Europe, in a lot of countries countries you are only able to hunt on private land because there is no public land right we are incredibly lucky in this country in that i was in yellowstone this weekend i told you i went up there and fucking amazing man what an amazing thing and that's a non-hunting thing right yellowstone you can't hunt there but this concept

of public land this concept of public land, this concept of more than a million acres, I don't know how many millions of acres Yellowstone is, but- It's a big, big chunk of property. Incredible place that they can't build things on. You can't put a mall there. And it's just wild and natural. And it's ours. It's by an act of Congress. Back before they had fucking cars. Wrap your head around that. They figured out before they had cars.

They're like, yo, we got to do something about this place. This is too good. Yeah. We can't let anybody corrupt this. And this is what was wrong with where we came from. Where we came from, everybody owned all the land. It was all private. And you didn't have a place where you could just go backpacking and just camp out.

We have all these designated areas, designated areas that are all public land owned by the taxpayers of the United States. And whether you appreciate hunting or whether you just appreciate camping or hiking or any of those things. We have a beautiful thing in this country. Whereas the wild world that we are, the actual beautiful environment of these forests in most of the areas or in a lot of the areas, all the areas designated as public land, they're ours. They're yours. They're Jamie's. They're everybody that's listening.

All the people that live here. And even if the listeners aren't going to hunt, which is fine, not everybody has to hunt, but I would say get out there to Yellowstone or there's some national forests here in California, some great. Just get out there and experience life. Yeah. I mean, because living in a city isn't experiencing life. Well, it's experiencing life in a city. It's life, but it's not real life.

It's almost like you have a TV that only shows three different colors. Yeah. You get a little bit of red, a little bit of white, a little bit of black. That's it. That's all you get. Yeah. And you don't know what it looks like if you're watching Avatar and a beautiful 4K TV, and you're like, oh, the beautiful, magical colors, and wow.

You've never seen it before. You're experiencing a muted connection with your food and a very muted connection with wildlife that sometimes is fucking uncomfortable and scary. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also real. Real as fuck. Yeah. I've had some great hunts.

Marble Mountain Wilderness up in Northern California. Where's that? What part? It's like just south of Oregon. Oh, yeah? What'd you do up there? Deer hunt. Killed a nice black tail buck.

What's it like up there? Mountains. Dense. Yeah, it's timber. It's great country. Big country. Pretty rugged. Yoli Boli Wilderness.

Huge area. Where's that? Same area. It's near Mar Boli Wilderness, huge area. Where's that? Same area. It's near Marble Mountain Wilderness, another giant area. So many bear. You almost see more bear than deer up there. Really? Why is that? I don't know. It's just great habitat. So you can go up there and you can buy a deer tag and a bear tag. When I went there there about 160 bucks for for non-state resident or uh non-resident of california out of state um hunter and uh for a resident of california probably super

cheap you know um but great hunting so you can go up there and hunt deer and hunt bear same same time uh camp out survive see the stars in their natural way yeah yeah all those things it opens up uh like mid-august but there's just an appreciation for this strange planet when you you're viewing the life forms on it what is this jamie that's a picture of marble mountain wow god damn that's beautiful so pretty is that why it's called Marble Mountain? Marble Mountain. Because it looks like it's made out of marble. It does look like raw marble. Is it made out of marble?

Is that what that rock is? People go there to make countertops? They're stealing from the land to make someone's counter. Yeah, but isn't that amazing? It's beautiful. Yeah. When I was in Montana this past past weekend went to the yellowstone thing i mean you just be driving and you would just drive and just look down the street and go

fuck this is crazy this place is crazy this this view is like um it's like a drug yeah like you're taking in this incredible mountainside covered in trees and the sunlight is hitting the trees and it just got done raining and everything was vibrant and green and you're like this is a drug like i'm getting an eyeball drug yeah by staring at this thing like it's doing something to me physically yeah where you just go wow yeah it makes you feel good to see it well when i'm that so marble mountain wilderness just right i mean that's public land anybody can go there you can go there anytime you you feel good to see it. Well, when I'm there, so Marble Mountain Wilderness District, I mean, that's public land. Anybody can go there. You can go there anytime you want. And when I'm there, what I feel like when, so if you were at that exact same place that Jamie just had a picture of,

you feel small. You feel the country's big. You feel insignificant really compared to how grand the country is. And for me personally, for, I think for everybody, it's good. It's good to feel small. Sometimes people elevate themselves, people make themselves more important than they really are. That's a real, I mean, that puts you in check back there because you realize if anything happens back here, does anybody even know? I mean, they'll find out. But I'm just another, not too much different than an ant back here. If I die, nothing's going to change. The wind's going to still blow.

You know, the lions are still going to try to kill deer. The elk are still going to try to breed. Nothing changes. So it's good. I think it's good to have that feeling every once in a while to realize, you know what? I'm not that special. Yeah. That's why I love the wilderness.

Well, there's an inescapable understanding when you're faced with the enormity of nature. It's like everything to the left of you, everything to the right, and everything as far as the eye can see doesn't give a fuck. And it's all been this way for who knows how long, and it will be this way for who knows how long after you're gone this is just this life factory and it's all going on all around you and it doesn't care about you you are just an entrant you're an entrant in this weird sort of uh race that's going on where things are trying to get by yeah things are trying to get by by eating all the grasses the grasses are trying to get by by Producing some sort of a chemical that discourages these things to eat them the animals are trying to run from the other animals that are trying to eat them and

We're all just hanging out watching or participating but in you know in regular life and Everybody's so worried about people's feelings and people being fairly treated or people, whatever. And it's just like, it's, it just gets so, I get it. I want, you know, everybody should be treated fairly, but I like when it's just black and white. I like when I'm in the mountains,, I don't have to worry about or even think about everybody's cause or the cause of the day, or I don't know. I mean, it's just, it puts it in perspective. It does put in perspective. And I think it would be good for everybody, including people that are really invested in these causes to experience this. Yeah. Because I think it

broadens your perspective. And again, even if you're just hiking out there, like I said, the hunt that made me feel the most thankful was an unsuccessful one. So all we were doing was hiking with guns. So we went hiking with guns for five days in the rain. Yeah. And I came back and I felt so goddamn good. Yeah. And not just good about the ability to have food, to not have to go out and hunt it and

kill it because we're unsuccessful, but that this is a, this is a really cool thing that we figured out how to do to escape that world, that world of harsh, brutal nature, the tooth, fang and claw world. But you're not going to appreciate that unless you go in there. In there. Yeah. That in there though, that's where it gets hard. It's hard to convince people. Like, it's hard to convince fat people to get off the couch.

Yeah. You know? It's hard to convince people that it probably would benefit them to be uncomfortable. Yeah. We're addicted to comfort, for sure. You're addicted to being uncomfortable, which is what makes you real fucking weird. You're Captain Uncomfortable. That's your your new name that's your podcast name oh captain uncomfortable so let's talk about that because we're gonna we're gonna end this soon and we're gonna start the first episode of the cameron haynes podcast but we have to have a name for it

what do we come up with keep hammering is a good one. Yeah. I like that. You know why? Because that's the first thing that I ever heard from you or about you. I might have even heard that before I met you. Yeah. And I was like, look at this fucking dude out there working, and his constant catchphrase is keep hammering. I'm like, that's a good thing to think of if you're thinking about quitting. Like, if you're thinking about, you're like, I'm going to run five miles today.

And on that third mile, you're like, fuck, I don't want to do this. And you just think, God, fucking keep hammering. Yeah, I'm going to keep hammering. And the mindset of pushing yourself forward is a good mindset. It's a good mindset to have because your goddamn comfortable, soft-ass, water balloon, full of blood body wants you to take breaks. Yeah. That bitch-ass body. It does.

It's begging for a break. Bitch-ass body we have. What do you think, Jamie? Keep hammering? Yeah, that sounds like a great one. Or filthy skills. Filthy skills is confusing, though. It's a little inside joke a little bit.

Might be better for a shirt. It's like if I called this podcast call this podcast let's get lucrative filthy skills can go lots of ways right so yeah it could be could be gross like people would think dirty porn right i think filthy skills might be better as a shirt okay okay so uh haynes world like wayne's world yeah somebody had one they made like that, yeah. They made a poster, right? Did they make an online thing? Yeah, I saw it last week. Yeah, but you need a sidekick.

Who would you be? Would you be the Mike Myers or would you be the Dana Carvey? Garth. Which one was Garth? Wayne and Garth was Dana Carvey. Right here. So Garth was Dana Carvey? Yeah.

I kind of like Garth better. You like Garth better than Wayne? Yep, a lot better. That's my boy. I don't have a sidekick, though. Yeah, you don't have a sidekick. You need a sidekick, dude. Who would we get?

You need someone to argue with. You need some vegan, sort of Nick-to Tooth type character to do battle with. That's a whole different show. I know, but I'm just trying to like be in a network. I'm like a network executive trying to fuck up your original idea. We need drama. We need a wacky neighbor. Your show needs a gay neighbor who's a vegan, who gets mad at you.

Yeah. And he takes your meat out and he thaws it out in the outside and it all goes bad to punish you for killing animals. Okay. That's episode one. We'll have to put out a feeler for that. There's plenty of those dudes out there. You can find them.

Just go through your Instagram comments and pluck them out. You've got to get them to come here from Europe, though. Yeah. Well, I know one guy who shared a picture of a bear I killed on his site and brought me a lot of hate. Maybe he'd be my sidekick. There's a lot of those dudes. Yeah. There's a lot of those.

A lot of them are like vegan bodybuilders, which is really interesting. That's the guy. Yeah, but there's a bunch of those. Yeah. Steroid users, by the way. Yeah. Steroid users, by the way. Yeah. Steroid users. Not that there's anything wrong with steroids, but you motherfuckers aren't talking about that.

I see the size of your muscles. I see your diet, and that doesn't make sense to me. You're not taking in enough fat to produce the kind of testosterone that you need to develop those kind of muscles. You're just not. And you guys are lean as fuck, and your muscles are massive. I see it. I know what you're doing not and uh you guys are lean as fuck and your muscles are massive i see it i know what you're doing you're on steroids and by the way a lot of those steroids aren't vegan they require bacteria they require dead life in order to create some of its vegan they actually make um testosterone from wild yams.

Interesting, right? Didn't know that. Yeah. But either way, there's some hypocritical horseshit going on. There's also a lot of weird posturing going on. Part of the reason why they're doing it is because they want to appear to be very noble. And Michael Sherman calls it virtue signaling. Shermer is a very famous skeptic and intellectual.

And he's like, this is what they're doing. Like they're signaling to the people around them. Sort of like when an elk bugles is to let all the other elk know he's a bad motherfucker. Well, by having all these anti-hunters, which is like you're going to, if you have an anti-hunter post, you're absolutely going to have a bunch of people to take your side. Yeah, fuck those people, right? Right. But they also get to see how good your six pack looks. So you say, fuck those people, but you're also oiled down and you're talking about, you know, cruelty free, you know, awesome life and healthy living while you're like overhead pressing a lot of weight.

You look sleek and you probably get some pussy that way. And that's what these guys are doing. There's a lot of that going on. It's not a coincidence that some of the cuntiest fucks are also some of the ones who are the most into their physiques. Right. I see what you're doing. Yeah. I know what you're doing.

I guarantee you if you got those guys alone with no one watching and you had a conversation with them, they would fall apart. I guarantee you their arguments would fall apart. Their motivations would fall apart. If there's no one there to cheer them on or help them, you actually got to see them as a human being having a communication with you as a human being about why it is that they're spreading this kind of hate. And then you get into the very specifics of this and you realize this argument is long and vast and super complex. You guys are trying to make it look like it's not trying to make it look like you eating that salad. You're the best ever. Right. You're super awesome. Yeah. You're better than us as

hunters. Exactly. That's well, you're, you're better than people who don't do what you do, even though you just started doing it four months ago. Exactly. Oh, so irritating. Did you see the video of the dude who was eating a pizza? And he finds out it's got cheese in it, and he fucking freaks out. He's a vegan, and he's talking about how awesome it is to be a vegan, and then realizes in the middle of the video that the pizza has cheese in the sauce. Was it real?

And he goes ballistic. Yeah, yeah. Because it was a long video. Oh. And it's just, he throws his phone. He screams and Yeah. It's a look, this is a long video. Oh, and, uh, it's just, he throws his phone, he screamed and yelled. He's so angry. And in the, in the video, he's talking about like, you can't say that you're a good person. If you're not vegan, you can't say that you're a person who tries to be a good person. Well, if that's the case,

why aren't you vegan? Like, boy fucking nailed it you made it so simple yeah well his mom ordered the pizza oh so it's just a misunderstanding it's very hilarious but his this is a guy it's like we don't have to play this man no no no i don't want to shit on this guy you can go find it if you want folks i don't want to play it or shit on this guy he's just a young kid he's got his ideas and maybe in his mind he's right but i just found the the folly and watching him freak out over some cheese yeah i get it cows are look man if you want something to be upset about rather than hunters it is absolutely the the fucking dairy industry and agricultural gag laws, those ag gag laws that don't allow you to film these chicken factories where these things are stuffed into these horrible conditions

or pig factories or factory farming. I'm 100% with you. I think it is one of the worst aspects of civilization, the way we acquire our protein. And here's another real problem and a contradiction. And for guys like you and I, we don't really have an argument against this. Not everybody can hunt. And if you want to eat meat and you want to do it in an ethical way, you have a real dilemma that they are pointing out.

I think that by going against hunters, though, they're missing the mark in a big, big, big way. They're missing the mark in a giant way. We're not the enemy in a big, big, big way. They're missing the mark in a giant way. We're not the enemy. No. But, I mean, if you do want to eat meat and you don't hunt, there are places. I mean, my buddy Adam LaRoche owns E3 Ranch, and that's all free range. Yeah, you can do it. It can be done.

But it's expensive, and you're not going to get it at McDonald's. And if you want a quick cheeseburger and you want to pull into that Wendy's drive-thru, boy, you got to put those ethical blinders on. You have to. And in that sense... Take a break from ethics that day. Yep. And in that sense, all these vegans are right.

In that sense, when they're talking about how animals are being treated, where we're getting our milk from and our cheese from, in most of these large scale factories, they're right. They're a hundred percent right. And I'm with them. I just think that this whole conversation is really about human beings and civilization itself and our ability to diffuse responsibility, our ability to detach ourselves. and just like we're talking about these people that consume grain and don't think about the consequences

of on life these people that consume all sorts of vegetables that are used that pesticides are used that are killing off bees this is a huge issue that you contribute to I do all the people that we know that eat fruits and vegetables most likely have in some way contributed to the large-scale death of a lot of different insects and animals It's just a part of being a person and you can't deny that if you try to deny that and say well I'm trying to do the least harm possible. That's great That's like train trying to say like I'm a serial killer, but I only like to kill once a month Yeah, I got this fucking guy argue with me and one of the things he was arguing he's like I'm 90% vegetarian Oh what that's like what does that mean

it's fucking ridiculous yeah that's the same thing that's it's like the same thing as saying you're a vegan I am too the six hours that I'm sleeping total vegetarian so what is that that's 25% yeah you're not eating at all during that time no you're an air Terran right I'm like, I'm better than him. But if you're contributing to death, then you really can't say anything. And everyone's contributing to death. If you live in a house, if your house is made out of wood, if trees fell to build your house, animals died.

Do you know what Michael Pollan... Absolutely. And their habitat was displaced. Do you know what Michael Pollan says their habitat was displaced and do you know what michael pollan says he's uh the guy who wrote that book the omnivore's dilemma very very fascinating guy he said that they have done research where they have played the sound of animals eating leaves and plants next to plants and somehow or another the very sound of those animals eating plants causes the plants to excrete defensive chemicals. So somehow or another, these plants, they're not just feeling that someone's eating them.

They're hearing it. And they're aware and they're reacting to sound in some sort of a strange way that is commensurate with the way an animal reacts to danger in some sort of a strange way that is commensurate with the way an animal reacts to danger in some sort of a strange way. He also says that they produce some human neurochemicals, like serotonin and dopamine. They produce commensurate chemicals. And we don't know why. We don't know what's going on there. Crazy.

Fucking nuts. Nuts. I had to read it like three or four times. I'm like, wait a minute. They played sounds of animals eating plants next to the plants and the plants started, they're fucking eating us. That's actually pretty barbaric to do that. It's rude. Yeah.

Either you're going to eat them or don't eat them. Don't torture them first. It's like, you know, you wouldn't like kill cows, but before you kill them, you play this horrible sound. Yeah. Of other cows getting killed. Bad news for vegetarians. Plants can hear themselves being eaten and become defensive when attacked.

Researchers from the University of Missouri found plants respond to attack. They discovered that the sound of caterpillars eating made them more defensive, and plants that heard caterpillar sounds released more mustard oils which are unappealing to caterpillars and thus ward them off Wow Wow but plants that heard the wind despite having a similar acoustic sound knew not to waste their defensive capabilities whoa this suggests that plants are able to identify sounds in their environment that makes makes sense, man. Most people don't give it a second thought when they're tucking into a plate of salad,

but perhaps we should be a bit more considerate when chomping on lettuce. The scientists have found that plants actually respond defensively. You just need to accept the fact that life eats life. Life eats life. That's all there is to it. Well, that doesn't allow you to be sanctimonious right or to take the moral high ground so i'm gonna have to say you're full of shit in a piece of fucking human garbage and you're out there raping the world with your filthy skills by the way you can get this filthy skills t-shirt skills

with a z like the young kids are doing these crazy kids yeah at uh cameronhaines.com right that's it that's it free shipping filthy skills bitches all right we're gonna come back and this time cam's gonna do all the talking, because I can't shut the fuck up. I had too much coffee. And we're going to come back with the Cameron Haynes podcast. It won't be on YouTube. Maybe he'll eventually get it set up where it's going to be on YouTube,

but I'll tweet it, he'll tweet it, he'll put it on Facebook and everything like that, and you'll be able to download that shit, friends and neighbors. Cam Haynes, I love you, buddy. You're awesome. Thank you. Love you. Alright, see you, you people. ... ...