The Joe Rogan Experience - #818 - Mike Schmidt

Episode Date: July 4, 2016

Before becoming a door guy at The Comedy Store, Mike Schmidt worked for over 10 years as a criminal defense attorney in Wisconsin.

on that right when we go live. That is over 10,000 Viking fans with the Viking clap. They're Icelandic fans. And that is a coordinated clap that could not be done in the United States of America, ladies and gentlemen. We got a little too much independent thinking going on over here. Can you imagine if we had that kind of organization? We could do a clap, an America clap. It'd be awesome. Get a group haka.

Why can't we do that? How come we watch the haka? We watch, like, those awesome Samoan dudes. Are they Samoan that are doing that? That is New Zealand? Right, New Zealand. That is one of the dopest fucking war dances the world has ever known

and it's going on right now like it's not some Viking shit that they forgot about they probably used to do but everybody who did it got slaughtered or died off or they didn't tell their grandchildren because they didn't want them carrying on the way this is some real shit they're doing it right now at a soccer game

soccer's replacing war right yeah that's what's going on this is some real shit. They're doing it right now. At a soccer game. Soccer's replacing war, right? Yeah. That's what's going on. Yeah, it's a good chance for your country to go fuck up another country. Yeah. And nobody has to die. You still get to do the war cry.

Boom, boom. Boom, boom. Mike Schmidt, ladies and gentlemen. Pull this right up, man. Oh, hey. So let me ladies and gentlemen. Pull this right up, man. Hey. So let me tell everybody how this podcast got started and why I wanted to talk to you. Because Mike works at the comedy store. Seemed like a very cool guy.

And one day we're hanging out in the back patio. And, you know, like all the employees of the comedy store, it's kind of a hang. You know, it's an interesting place to work, right? Yeah, it's just a hang and during the course of this hang you started telling me about your past before you worked at the comedy store and You started telling me some really disturbing shit that you saw in the criminal justice system while while you were working there and I was like This is a fascinating subject. And let's

talk about it on a podcast. So here we are. Yep. Yep. I figured why not? It's fucked up. So I may as well tell people. Yeah. Well, you tell me what you did for 10 years. So I was a criminal defense attorney for about 10 years. I was for the first year or two in central Wisconsin, and then I moved down to Dane County, Wisconsin, which is where Madison is, you know, University of Wisconsin, all that fun stuff. It's the capital of the state. Shout out to my friend Doug Duren. Powerful Doug Duren. Yeah. He lives there.

Yeah. It's got a great comedy club. Yes, it does. Yeah, it really does. It's an awesome town. It's a very liberal town. the studies, you've seen the statistics, you've seen riots, like things are not good. You're not being treated well. And you would think that the worst place to be would be where you see riots happening like Ferguson. But actually, it's Madison, Wisconsin. No place are black people more

poor in relation to the white people around them than Madison, Wisconsin. Nowhere else do black children get arrested more often in comparison with white children than Madison, Wisconsin. You would think it's Birmingham and Alabama. You would think, where are those pictures that I saw people getting hoses turned on them or dogs sent on them? I bet that's where they treat black folks like shit. No, it's Madison, Wisconsin. What do you think is causing that?

I mean, why is this one area in your assessment from working there for 10 years? Like, why is it like this? There's, well, I mean, there's a ton of different factors. And all the factors boil down to racism. I know it's kind of condescending for me to be a white guy from the Midwest calling racism on everybody. But I'm just going to tell you what I've observed and, you know, what the numbers show, because the thing is that you can't argue with the statistics.

If this ever came down to an argument about whether or not these numbers are fair, these people are being treated fairly. We know where they are, you know, they're they're in prison. We can point to the actual people they could raise their hands if they wanted to and say But I'm sorry, I think really what's important one of the things you pointed out was in specific crimes Sure where a white guy and a black guy with no record did the exact same thing. The difference in punishment between the white guy or the black guy. So if you want to count numbers of people that have been arrested, I think there's a possibility that it runs into that quagmire.

Well, you know, how many black people are there? How many white people are there? Are they in bad neighborhoods where these things are taking place? But what you're talking about is the exact same crime. So you can really see the obvious contrast there. Yeah. The best example is burglary. So burglary is a crime that there's multiple stages to burglary. There's people who are very good at burglary who will you know knock on a house and announce

themselves say hey Kathy just to try and avoid being charged with burglary under this statute just the way it's worded but teenagers do burglary a different way they wait till somebody's out of town that they know and they rob their parents house and they'll take their playstations and they'll take their liquor and everything and they get caught. They'll usually do a couple of them and they'll get caught in a group. And if that's your first trip into the justice system, you are probably in Dane County, you're probably going to get a deferred prosecution agreement. And if you keep your nose clean, you'll get an expunction, which is where the judge says, I don't think the community would be harmed. And I think you would be helped by making it like this never happened. So the police can keep a report of it, but nobody will ever know.

So the black kids don't get the offer of expunction right out of the gates. The white kids do. And then when they fuck up, and they do, because they are 19, and a lot of the white kids are doing are stealing for heroin. You know, like, I don't want to sensationalize enough, but that's what you do. So they'll steal for that they'll get popped again, or they'll get popped for curfew. And now the deferred prosecution agreement is pulled. And so they're technically convicted of a felony. At that point, the white kids will still have options of saying, like, let me give this another shot. I'll plead to more offenses. I'll plead to more of the bail jumpings.

Let's haggle. Let's haggle on what we're going to do. Because they've already entered a conviction, entered a plea on the record to the felony for burglary. So they still have options. And at the end of it, they're going to get probation. They might get six months conditional time in jail, but they're going to get probation. And the black kids who fuck up the same way, who were charged with the same offense, in my experience, and what, I mean, what what everybody else notices they go to prison they just off to prison so white burglars in their early you know late teens early 20s conviction deferred prosecution possibility of expunction then still fuck up and then they get

probation black kids one chance prison and once they go to prison you don't really get out of that system very long because they just keep catching you up on probation or parole violations and so that's just one example where same number of convictions you know whether or not it's a kid with no convictions or a bunch of convictions, the determining factor was the race of the kid because they're both poor. You know, the white burglar defendants and the black burglar defendants are generally both poor because if your parents have money, you just pay the restitution and you kind of walk.

Whoa. Not in every case, but when there's money over the barrel, when you can pay the restitution in a criminal case, it's such a rare thing that the prosecution will bend over backwards to help you get that money to the people that you fucked over. And that's all they would have to do is pay the equal amount and they could skate.

No, no, they don't skate completely. But since so few people ever get their money back from the prosecuting, you know, from the prosecution of the crime, anytime you can put the money up, they will bend over backwards for you. So for a theft case like that, you could conceivably not be punished for breaking into someone's house and stealing something if you pay them for it back. Yeah, if you could. Like the act of breaking in, you won't be penalized for that? That seems crazy. Well, I mean, if you can them for it back yeah if you could act of breaking in you won't be penalized for that that seems crazy well i mean if you can pay for it like think right put yourself in the shoes of a prosecutor where day in day out you convict people crimes and you give

them time but then there's these victims and all they ever get to do is read a report all they ever get to do is sit in a chair and say you really screwed me on this one day and then a lot of times the defendant doesn't even fucking look at them. And so they never get to come with a win for their victims and paying restitution is a win for the victims. So you can't ignore that. No, I mean, I totally get it from a rational sense, but it just seems fucked. I mean, that literally is buying your way out of jail. If you look at the, yeah, if you look at the difference between someone who figures out a way to come up with the money to pay for it or they have the money to pay for and they were just stealing for a kick or just to be a piece

of shit versus someone who has no money the only difference being is that the one person is able to come up with some cash that's that's crazy yeah but of course if you're i mean the thing is if the charges are already filed you're gonna have to plead to something if you're, I mean, the thing is, if the charges are already filed, you're going to have to plead to something or you're going to have to do a deferred prosecution agreement, but they'll make it as easy as possible. So when you were working there and you observed this, I mean, you were there for 10 years doing this. When did it really start to sink in that this was sort of an impossible system and you didn't want to be a part of it? So in order to combat, I guess, the view that people were becoming increasingly more violent, Dane County did this thing called the Special Investigations Unit. And the Special Investigations Unit was supposedly a race blind selection of the 10 most dangerous individuals in Dane County,

selection of the 10 most dangerous individuals in Dane County, most likely to reoffend and hurt somebody else. And they staffed it with the Department of Justice and probation and parole and some other people that we didn't know that they staffed it about. And so they just discussed these issues and the sheriff's department and the U.S. Attorney's Office and they made the list of these people that they thought were the most dangerous in Dane County. And then they summoned them all to a meeting where they threatened them. And they said, hey, if you step out of line, we're going to fucking max you out on everything. So if you spit on the sidewalk, ticket. If you disorderly conduct, we're going to hit you with disorderly conduct as a repeater and try to throw you in prison for it. So you cock off even a little bit, you're taking

the ride. And also, by the way, we have some services. So here's a place where you can apply for a job. And they're all black. That was when I knew there was no fucking point to this because point to this because in dane county there are like 4.6 percent of the population or something is black they can't all like the top 10 most dangerous people in dane county are not all black i know this because some of the most dangerous people in dane county were my other clients and they're white and i was like i, I looked at the list. I'm like, I got other guys that belong on this list. I had a number of people on the list when it first came out. And then when they redid the list, I had a couple more. And when they redid the list with a new 10, all black. So I know black people are not evil. know they're normal i know they're just like everybody else

how are they you know it's because it's white or black the coin flip white or black they're telling me it came up 20 times in a row on heads like random chance doesn't even account for this there's no race blind way to they and they told me afterwards, like, no, we did it in a race-blind way. There's no way you did. You might have thought you did. So the system doesn't even understand how racist it is. How could they say they're doing it in a race-blind way? I mean, if you legitimately think there were more dangerous people that were working under you or that were being represented by you rather. Why? I mean, what was their criteria? What were they judging on? Was it

judging on how many convictions, the violence of the conviction? Like what were the criteria? Well, it was just a number of convictions and offense severity. It's they they try a lot to figure out a good metric to predict, you know new criminality and it never really works It was patterned after a program that they did in the south so it's kind of like they took the names and birth dates off a bunch of files and they passed them around and Miraculously every single one of them was black every single one of them was black. Now, numbers wise, is that possible?

Like, is it possible that all the people that were the top 20 had the most amount of violent convictions, the most amount of this, the most amount of that. And that was just, they just happened to be black. Is that possible? It is not possible because I had other clients who beat them. And so you knew the criteria. Yeah, I have worse people. Everybody in that courthouse had somebody that was worse than anybody on that fucking list that's insane so you're saying like literally the you could replace the list with white people that were

violent dangerous criminals and it would be a better choice absolutely dangerous so those dangerous people were not even in the top 10 yeah yeah if they wanted like if they wanted to know who the biggest fucking maniacs in the in dane county were they could have just asked the defense attorneys we wouldn't have told them right but we knew the answer but you knew the answers that isn't that a tricky situation to be in i would imagine that um it's incredibly stressful being someone who's representing someone who you think is like a real criminal a bad person and you have to try to get them off. Yeah, it's weird, but the thing is, the system only works if you just come at the other side,

and the other side just comes at you, because you've got, you know, they've got the police behind them, they've got the fact that they've got a badge that impresses, you know, civilians during the jury trial. They've got prosecutors who have access to state crime labs. They're going to come at you. And if they lose, it's their fault. So they have to win these ones. So and the guilty guys give you an opportunity to practice because you if you only took the cases of people who you thought were innocent you would suck when it came time to do their trial like you've got to practice you got to sharpen your claws and the best way to do it is you know win with someone where you know that

they fucking did it and win it clean on technical points because those technical points like, you know, not getting evidence in or when a prosecutor is asking questions during voir dire, they shouldn't be that type of little, those little backflips and shit. Those will pay off when you actually have a client that you don't think did it. So I, Ooh, I understand. I understand what you're saying. and it's sort of your obligation and so in that sense you almost treat it like it's a game that you're playing like some sort of a technical game you have to treat it as a technical game or you will lose because is it something i mean i know very very little about the law in terms of defending people but is it

something that you think is like uh almost like sort of a chess game? Like you have a bunch of pieces and you have to manipulate them correctly. And you have to be aware of the massive, massive amounts of things that have been written on each individual subject, whether individual crime, what precedents have been set, how to establish whether or not there, your client was treated fairly. And is that based on precedence too? Yeah, yeah, there's precedent for everything. You know, 346 million people in the country, like they've had some court cases. So, yeah, you have to know the general progress of how a trial goes.

You have to know when someone can invoke a right and when they can't invoke a right. Time limits are kind of important. Time limits? Time limits, yeah. Like, oh, it's like how, like, statute of limitations time limits? Is that what you mean?

Statute of limitations to even if you're in court and you don't object on time, eh, you're screwed. Then they have to argue in a different way to try and get it flipped over. But there's always arguing. But yeah, it is a game and it is kind of mental. Here's an example. I did this to a guy. He's not a prosecutor there anymore. But when you go into courtrooms in large areas, they take their inmates from the in custody section. Sometimes they'll be in a jail next door and they'll bring them from a tunnel or a little holding cells in the courthouse. So they'll bring them in one side of the courtroom and then they'll put the jury box on the opposite side of the courtroom so that the in custody defendant doesn't walk past them on the way in and out.

the in custody defendant doesn't walk past them on the way in and out. Because if they were to get sentenced, and the jury were sitting there on their way out, there may be some choice words. So they separate the two of them. And also because, you know, they're worried about them fleeing or whatever. But the net, the actual effect of that is that the prosecutor sits closer to the jury box. And they always have a case officer who sits next to the prosecutor in their dress uniform or their work uniform, and they look at the jury, and they monitor the jury,

and they keep their notes, and they help them, and they mug, and they listen to the entire trial so they know what's going on. So it's a great asset to them, but a substantial part of the advantage that they get from having that chair is having the officer being able to look at the jury. Because think

about you sitting in a room and you're trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. Maybe it's a knife fight. Maybe somebody's supposedly shot at somebody. And a jury and you know, the witness leans forward and says something and you don't know if you should believe him. So you look to the judge, judges blank. And then you look to the court reporter and the clerk of courts, blank, blank, because they don't want you to be able to read them or they're working on other shit or they're concentrating on writing what everybody's saying. Then you get to the, you know, you get to the defense table and there's the, you know, defendant looking guilty as shit as they always do. Not really, but. And then you get to the prosecutor and the cop and they're the cops looking at you and he just gives you a. And there you go. You got some validation for your suspicion that the person was not telling the truth just a little bit.

And that rolls forward from time to time. Like when you tell jokes on stage, sometimes you hold for a second and you fucking look at people and then they start to laugh. It's the same shit. It's just they're working the crowd. Right. And they don't even know that they want to answer, or when they lean back because you asked them a question and they're about to burn you, they're working the fucking crowd. They're just working the crowd.

So what I would do is I would show up early as shit, and I would take their table. I would just put my shit at their table because their name's not on the table. Most juvenile bullshit ever, I would take put my shit at their table because their name's not on the table. Most juvenile bullshit ever. I would take the table and I would put all my stuff there and I would make them ask the judge to move me. Because that was not an argument that someone who went to Harvard came to the courthouse prepared to make. Because my opponent that day did go to Harvard. And fuck Harvard. You know, like,

this is the streets. Like, this is fuck around time. So I did that just to unhorse him mentally so that when the trial did start, he was uncomfortable. I didn't care if I won or lost that argument. I wanted that chair. I wanted that chair

because I knew what we could do looking back and forth at those people and just taking them that much further from the physical proximity of the jury putting us close I wanted it for that reason but more so than that I just wanted to make him be a fucking six-year-old to the judge that's a beautiful move man that's an excellent move and so. That's an excellent move. And so it's, you know, like it's playing around.

Sure. And it's definitely, but it's also the whole system is kind of juked anyway. Right. I mean, aren't you doing your best to, yeah. I mean, the thing is like,

if I can play for that advantage and it's not unethical or illegal because I can explain why that chair is better and why I want it, then I kind of have to play that angle because I would hate for my client that day to be like, well, so you had a chance to really mind fuck them before you started and you didn't and now I'm convicted? Right. Well, thanks. They're not going to, you know. Well, how many guys who are working in your position have such a clear mindset, though? How many people have sort of punched out after a while because they've been doing it a long time?

Or is that a public misconception that you see in, like, movies where the, you know, the criminal defendant that gets assigned by the state doesn't really give a fuck, does a half-assed job, and the guy gets sent up river? Is that common or is it bullshit? It's bullshit. It's bullshit because we all do care. We're competitive. Even if we hate you, we're going to try to win, especially if we hate you. I've pulled some of my best moves all time for people that I loathed

because it was the hardest move to pull and it would be the biggest win. And I, you know, like, it doesn't matter how you feel about the person. Do you like winning? Keep winning. Like when you see somebody and they want seven years and you go, fuck you, three, you don't say fuck you, but you think, you want seven years for this shit? Seven years of someone's life? You maniac. I don't care. I don't even want this guy out. But seven, no.

So then you work on an argument so that after work, you can tell everybody that the prosecution asked for seven and you got them two. Wow. Because, yeah, winning is its own reward. I've never heard a lawyer put it quite like that like that honestly You know we've talked about it before on the podcast where I think that there's a real problem with cops arresting criminals and Not that they shouldn't but there's a real problem in that it becomes a game like you're trying to win You're trying to catch people for doing things and you're trying to lock them up and when you're trying to win. You're trying to catch people for doing things, and you're trying to lock them up. And when you're trying to win, because that is a win.

If you get someone, you lock them up, you arrest them, you catch them, they get convicted, they go upriver, I send them upriver, I win. That is an absolute, there's a certain amount of what we've sort of developed all throughout high school years and junior high school and whatever. Kids play sports, and whatever, kids play sports. And we develop this winning mentality. The game is to be won.

Whether it's a game of pool or lawn darts or fucking basketball, people are always trying to win. And when you have people that are raised in some of the most intense moments of their life, especially if you've been involved in competitive sports, like if you've been on a championship baseball team or something like that, you go from that and your next experiences in life are being a police officer. You're going to definitely take that sports mindset

and apply it to chasing down criminals. And it could be good and it can be bad, but the problem is when people start justifying certain things like planting evidence and doing things along those lines in order to get a conviction because they want to win. That's when shit gets really, really scary because someone has an incredible amount of power. And if someone is doing something to make you look more guilty just so that they can win, that's scary. Yeah. When people were upset about the New England Patriots being

accused of cheating. Yeah, deflate gate sort of was. Jamie, can you explain that? Because I don't necessarily understand it. During the NFL, I think it was the championship game a couple years ago, during the before the game, a trainer supposedly had let some air out of the ball, which would make

it easier to grip and throw and catch. Now that's what I don't understand. Has that been proven? That it happened? That it's easier to catch a ball when it's deflated? There's other NFL quarterbacks I've heard recently that admit to over-inflating a ball for similar reasons. It's just preference on how to grip a ball. Same way baseball players do stuff to a baseball, but pitchers aren't allowed to scuff it. But they beat up a ball so that it's not brand new and slippery is all.

This is why I got confused. But hasn't it been proven, or am I wrong, that there's no measurable difference? I think the amount that it actually was for there was like a.0018 amount of air. So that's an immeasurable amount of difference. I really don't think it was. So it was bullshit. It was bullshit charges. For the most part, yeah... So it was bullshit. Bullshit charges. And it still is. They want to win.

The NFL wants to win in this case. So that's what it is. Because they couldn't get them very much on when they were listening to everybody's plays. Because they were reviewing everyone else's plays and intercepting their communications. How are they doing that? Radios. And that's illegal?

It's not illegal depending on the state that you're in, but it's... Frowned upon? That's unethical. The teams are not supposed to be eavesdropping on the play calls. Right. They were taping them, too. Yeah. Videotaping practices and catching hand signals.

Oh, really? Yeah. And deciphering hand signals like fucking enemies? Yeah. Wow, that's like some World War II Japanese code type shit, really? Yeah. And deciphering hand signals? Like fucking enemies? Yeah. Wow, that's like some World War II Japanese, like, code type shit, right? Yeah, that's why they hold up those big-ass signs now with, like, five different

pictures. There's decoy guys giving fake hand signals. There's all kinds of things going on. What? Yeah. Subterfuge. Yeah. Danger. Yeah. Wow, that's crazy. So, it's like the cops are kind of like the New England Patriots. Like, they're going to win anyway. Why do you cheat?

You're going to win because the Patriots were going to win almost all those games anyway. But they don't, the planning of evidence and stuff, like that's, it's more sensational. It's more rare than you would think. And the cops trying to get a particular person is more rare than you think like most cops are pretty good and don't hold grudges like that and when you see a cop who's arrested somebody like four times before they get along like there's there's a little bit of trash talking a little bit like hey how's it going like they have relationships with people that they have to arrest a lot that are not always negative.

Like, it's fucking hilarious. It's like the sheepdog and the coyote. Yeah. Those cartoons. Morning, Sam. Morning, Ralph. Morning, Ralph. Yeah, it's just like that.

And so, yeah, it's just they're not as bad as people make them out to be in that angle. Like, there have been some terrible scandals like Rampart. make them out to be in that angle like there have been some terrible scandals like rampart but most almost you know like that's not that's the shit that's not really happening like that's the tv shit what really happens is they're just not allowed to lose any interaction like they can't like when they finally decided that they don't have to chase people in california if they're going like 120 less people started dying because the cops actually had the discretion to go we don't need to win all the time you know but all these other things like domestic violence arrests or shoplifting or tasers like

they can't leave they can never like you can't back off a cop. You can't be like, no, man, I'm not going because they have to get more cops and they have to keep getting more cops with bigger guns until they get you. allowed to walk away from like personal interaction that's the problem is that we don't let them be themselves we make them be kind of these you know like just always challenging people right they don't want to do that but that's how they're taught that they have to kind of act around people and they drop it whenever they can like a lot of them so you know some guys never drop it because they really get off on that shit Sir put your hands in the hood of the car sir. Yeah, spread your legs Yeah, sir, but a lot of them would not like to talk to people that way right they just that They're taught they have to do that But it is kid

They're in a terrible terrifying and dangerous situation a lot of times where they literally have to have complete total control of that person and compliance. If they don't have compliance, it leaves open the door to weird shit. If a guy's not assuming the position, they can become more threatening. I kind of get it in violent crime situations, but it's just got to be insanely difficult to figure out when to turn that on and when to turn that off. Yeah. Yeah. I think, yeah, some people obviously have problems with that. It's a fucking difficult job emotionally to manage and psychologically to manage.

You're in this position where you have a gun all the time, and a good percentage of the people you talk to all day are full of shit. They're lying to you. They're about to commit a crime. I mean, imagine running into people, and almost everyone you see is involved in something they shouldn't be involved in. And you took the job because you like people. You took the job because you wanted to protect people and have people respect you. And all you get is fucking disrespect and picking up shoplifters and having turds thrown at you.

By some. And then teenagers make fun of you. Do you remember what it was like after 9-11? How that big shift came about and people were really appreciative of... They started calling them first responders. It was the first time they had to call them first responders. It was a common expression in the news. Because it used to be emergency people, 9-11.

It would be cops or firemen but when they start calling them first responders and people were like super happy to see cops and super happy to see firefighters especially for like quite a while they got a lot of respect yeah yeah yeah but kind of wore off i mean firefighters i firefighters, I think, still get their respect. They get most of what they used to get. They don't get the full blast that they used to get. Yeah, but now cops, every time one of them fucks up, it's showing up on video, and it's reflecting poorly on everybody.

We really do have to take into consideration two factors when you're looking at these videos. One is the sheer amount of crime you're talking about that takes place on a daily basis. So what you're saying is if you have, I mean, think of the many, many, many, many cities in this country and the many, many, many, many, many cops having interactions with the many, many, many people who have committed crimes. It's pretty rare. You see a video of a cop doing something really fucked up in consideration to that. When you're talking about these millions of interactions, and to have one every couple months, people are like,

God damn it, when are these fucking people going to stop doing that? Well, A, it is very good that we have a method now to catch those people and weed those people out. They don't exist anymore. That's a beautiful thing. those people and weed those people out so they don't exist anymore that's a beautiful thing but b we we it certainly like had an impact knowing that they're going to be filmed knowing that it's likely to be filmed it's going to eliminate some of the uh some of the corruption some of the evil shit that we've caught cops doing it's definitely going to have pressure on them and social pressure that's going to cause people to change their opinions and change the way they conduct business or they conduct the business

of law enforcement. But at the end of the day, the numbers are shockingly small. If you really stop and think about how much, I mean, I'm not trying to be like a cop apologist, but I'm just saying we really should take into consideration whenever we do any of these conversations about it, how many fucking cops there are, how many crimes they're handling on a daily basis, and how insanely brutal that must be on your psychological system, your emotional system. I've maintained a few times that I don't think it's a job that, I think it's a job that very few people are qualified for. I think you have to have a very strong mind to be able to handle that in a very fair way.

Yeah. Yeah, it's got to be intensely difficult. Could you imagine just getting shot at? Fucking high-speed chases, catching people in the middle of crimes, domestic violence. Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, it's not all excitement. A lot of it is sad for them because they'll show up four or five times to the same house. Oh, yeah, man.

You know? And they don't like that. A lot of times they'll get a case nice and ready, and then the lady doesn't show up, the case is dismissed, and then four months later there's another call, and she's back at the house. That shit is kind of great on them, I'm sure.

But like the I mean, the police brutality videos bring to light kind of a way that some officers have been getting away with treating people like Rodney King was was one of the first prime examples of, cops get away with doing this to people. Right. Don't you think in the Rodney King situation, though, it was pretty extreme because you're dealing with a PCP'd up dude that went on a high speed chase and there was a lot more to that video than what we saw on television.

Like, I'm not excusing them for beating the shit out of him like that. I mean, they should have definitely handcuffed him and they should have figured out a way with all those guys to restrain him. They should have the physical manpower to restrain that guy without beating on him like that. Yeah.

My personal belief is if you lead the police on a high speed chase, they should beat your ass when you get out of the car. That's what I, I mean, that's what they generally do because they're jacked up from having to drive at that speed. And I don't really say, I'm not saying like it's morally right.

I'm saying like, if you're currently in a high speed chase with the police, pull over slowly and expect, you know, a few kisses on the lips. This is my problem with that. I don't have a problem with it in terms of like dishing out justice but that's first of all kind of smacks of vigilantism right and second of all because you're not really supposed to do that no they're not supposed to but it's that i don't think they can control at that point it's not vigilantism it's a cop what would you call it just uh it's just inappropriate violence well it's i mean they're trying to take physical control

immediately of somebody who just like threatened the lives of people like threaten the lives like i don't know 50 or 60 people like they're gonna do it fast but here's my only concern is that it would encourage people to get away with more more on the line yeah because you know if they get pulled over, they're going to get the fuck beat out of them. Yeah. And it could cause the loss of other people's lives if they were involved in a car accident

by someone who's frantic to not get the shit beat out of them by cops. Yeah. I just don't think you're supposed to green light when someone can beat the fuck out of someone. No, no, no. Shooting them, killing them, it's not so hypocritical and stupid,

but that almost makes more sense. I'm not saying like a green light. I'm saying like we are dealing with people. It's probably, it's going to happen. Yeah. So like we, we need to figure out how to handle that.

Yeah. If we don't want it to happen, but it's, you know, that's, I mean, we're not using robots. We're using people.

Exactly. And I think that's, that's what's most important that we're, we're talking about here. And when we can take people and categorize them and say, well, this guy has X amount of melanin in his skin and his family's from this part of the world. So we'll apply rule A. Yeah. Versus if this guy is a Norwegian white looking motherfucker like yourself, you apply rule B.

What do you look at? Some Sweden in you? What do you got there? Norwegian. I knew it. Look at that. How about that? I'm not even good at that.

You're really good at racism. You're a very good white guy. Well, it's okay if you do it with white people. Yeah. Racism. Is that racism? No, that's not racism. What would that be?

Just racial. It used to be racism. It's only if it's a black person. I can't call, like, if I call you, if I say that you look Norwegian and I nail it, that is definitely not racism. But if I see a black person from Haiti and I'm like, the Congo. Well, that would be right. Yeah, that is racist. You can't get away with that.

Yeah. Especially if it's like a really bad place like the Congo. Well, I think also it was that you sounded really excited when you did it. Like, Congo! Yeah, well, that was for the punchline. Okay, all right. I didn't know. Trying to make some jokes.

Yeah, man. I think it's just real disturbing. It was very disturbing when you were telling me this. Because it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense that some place that people would think of as such a liberal open-minded place like Madison Wisconsin would be so so fucking backwards like that and that no one's bringing this up people have tried to bring it up they first started bringing it up in 2012 since then it's gotten worse a couple of places have come out with studies on it. Um, basically in Wisconsin, uh, adult black men are 12 times more likely to be sent to prison than white guys. Uh, black kids are 16 times more likely to be put into foster care than white kids. care, then you're more likely to be prescribed, you know, pills and all that fun stuff. And even for that, like in LA County, black foster kids are eight times more likely to be put on behavior

altering medication than white kids also in foster care. So it's they noticed that the numbers were really getting bad then and then they tried some shit to fix it and it just gotten worse i guess uh the funniest one was i think it was in 2014 then when there was another study that says well it's still getting worse uh they proposed a $250,000 gardening initiative where they would teach children to garden. You're locking up 50% of all African American men from 18 to 25. They're in jail or on probation. And your idea is to spend a quarter of a million dollars on gardening. No fucking wonder shit's fucked up so what was

the argument about the gardening that it was going to give them a sense of purpose because they would see these flowers and fuck if i know but that's yeah like it it's one of the like it's it's hippy dippy bullshit is what it is it's fucking like I don't like like holy fucking yellow brick road what the fuck are you talking about

like are we all grown ups in this room no no no we've really we've noticed some studies that came out of Norway yeah where they took prisoners

and they showed them how to make tomato sandwiches yeah and they could grow their own tomatoes yeah they felt so much more comfortable about being a person. Like, let's keep stealing fathers from their children. And then also, but you know how we took your dad?

This is the magic of begonias. You know? Like, you know, sorry we fucking shattered your family, but aren't lilacs beautiful? Right. And you have to ride the bus to come see your lilacs. It's just horseshit. It's just if that's what they think will make a difference, then we're fucked.

Yeah. I mean, that's probably a good idea for like maybe a community center that wants to help kids out and give them some sense of purpose. But to sort of subscribe that to criminals or to people that you've convicted of crimes or people that you put in jail. Or just anybody. You can't make people garden. Like we actually had a war about that. There was a war about 150 years ago about making people garden based

on the color of their skin. It was the Civil War. I found an article about it. What I'm saying, yeah. The anecdotes from this are kind of funny if you want to read it. I've been locked up my whole life, so doing programs like this are like planting a seed, he said.

You have to nurture a plant, almost like a seed. He said, you have to nurture a plant almost like a kid. It's kind of weird to think about it that way, but I think it's going to show me how to become an adult. Wow. And he said that after he brained the social worker and raped her dead body. Can I, can I do it NPR style? Yes. And after everyone had a chance to talk, it was time for some hands-on gardening. One table was covered with dried lupin and larkspur plants that the inmates stripped of seeds. After the gardening work was done, the inmates gathered again in a circle to talk about how to connect what they've learned from life after they're released.

John is currently serving time for his sixth drunk driving conviction. A little too sexy. It's pretty good, but you're a little too sultry. You burn. You burn, son. You burn at a low. I'm sorry. But you do burn.

You gotta be a little more dry. To me, it's the self-satisfaction. No. There's almost like a hipstery quality that you have to acquire of your sound as well. Okay. I'll work on that. It's pretty good, though.

What is going on with that voice that they do? That one thing where men... Okay, here's a perfect example. That dude who was in Canada who got in trouble with all the ladies because they said that he liked to throttle them. Remember that dude? John Gomeshi.

Do you know who he is? Okay. He was the guy that was on trial in Canada because a bunch of girls that he hooked up with said he beat the shit out of them. Oh, the fucking, like the Canadian MTV Much Music guy? Oh, it's always them. He was a male feminist who talks like this and has a very, very subdued way of speaking. So tell us about your band and where where did you guys start out like in this

you know that weird not a real person sort of a thing going on who's the king of that shit but what is that what what what is that gender neutral sort of strange when you talk like this yeah what is that why are they doing that they're they're trying to relax you almost like hypnotize you into uh not yeah just going with it there's no emotion to it it's like a soft rock dj but but yeah a little creepier it's like it's you know what though honestly i have to say i prefer it when i'm listening to like very intelligent things yeah oh like if i'm listening to very intelligent things. Yeah. Oh. If I'm listening to like... Yeah, because you don't want to hear somebody be like, yeah, the fucking Tampa Push ablation

is how the modern nuclear weapon operates. Yeah, exactly. Or even when someone's discussing, like when they're talking about a very intense subject that's hotly under debate, I almost prefer it. Like this non-judgmental, weird, sort of not really a person way of

communicating. The pan-determined. Like a classical music voice. Almost, yeah. If you study the classical music you can retain the knowledge better, so you speak that way. Well, I'm fascinated as a comic, I'm fascinated by all those different there's like

pre-determined patterns that people can plug into. Like you can become a top 40 DJ and everybody knows how to do it top 40 DJ style. All right. There's just a way of talking where it just say, oh, well, this guy's going to play me some top 40 songs. I know his voice. He's on the ball. He's doing it perfect. Strip club DJ is another one.

It's like a similar one. Politician voice. voice he's on the ball you know he's doing it perfect strip club dj is another one it's like a similar one yeah politician voice this is a bunch of different voices that people are allowed to plug into yeah i guess cop voice too you could add cop voice to that too cop voice yeah yeah hillary clinton is so bad at public speaking she's terrible at it right like how do you do it that long and suck that bad? Oh, my God. Well, you know what, man? I think she's tired, for one. I bet if you caught her when she was 40,

she's probably a firecracker. Yeah. You know, she's a lady that's dealing with a failing older body. It's a real problem for people because they don't really get wise enough for us to consider them running the nation until they're older. You know, like, if Katy Perry

wanted to be president tomorrow, I'd be like, bitch, you're not old enough she's not she's not 35 all right but i would vote for her when she's 35 okay jennifer aniston she's she's 35 she's like 42 or something like that she's not a good judge of character she's hot as fuck she's really hot but she's and she never did anything to her chin so strong chins still work yeah strong chin is good don't sell yourself short but like if she wanted to become president, we'd be like, get the fuck out of here. You're too vibrant. You're too young. You have too much going on.

It's a real catch-22 for a woman. Yeah. Because the only way you would accept a woman in office is a woman, like an old withered politician like Hillary, who's been in the trenches her whole career. Yeah. Yeah, I think you kind of have to be a little close to death for people to vote for you for president. It's true.

You've got to look a little bit like shit. Well, we tried it with Obama with a really vibrant guy, and he came out looking like death. Yeah. Came out looking 20 years older. Yeah. Poor bastard. Yeah, I think we bothered him way more than he thought we would bother him.

Oh, 100%. I mean, just the job itself. I think it's the way more than he thought we would bother. Oh a hundred percent I mean just the job itself I don't think any I think it's the same thing that we're talking about like that's really difficult to be a cop magnet time that time What a million magnify that probably more than a million and you got what the president is. Yeah I mean the the sheer volume of information that that guy must have to process on a daily basis about international affairs. Putin and Syria and Saudi Arabia is doing what? And what's going on in Turkey and the fucking terror attack in France?

And oh, yeah. Jesus Christ. Just has to decide bullshit over and over and over again. Everybody keeps fucking shit up for him, and now he's got to deal with it. Just internationally. He's supposed to take care of national stuff too. So stop and think about that. It's like he's got a hundred really fucking strong opinionated neighbors who like to fight with each other. And you've got to somehow negotiate peace settlements and even send some of your thugs to watch over certain areas to protect them from shit getting crazy. And he's constantly supposed to be communicating with all these generals and processing all that stuff.

God. And then on top of it, he's supposed to be fixing the economy. And then on top of it, he's supposed to be straightening out the problem with people having student loans that are worth vastly more than their actual education. Yeah. Fuck that job. Yeah. Yeah, he's a dumbass for trying to get that job. That's too much work for too little money.

But he's a lawyer. Yeah. And he wanted to win. Yep. Competitive. That's probably it, right? Yeah. You get on that track.

I get, you know know maybe he was like ah i'm a senator from illinois so i guess my choices are get the fuck out of here or go to prison like every other elected official from illinois yeah what was that was it detroit which what city was it where um what was like the big arrest recently oh yeah somebody in detroit did was the mayor of detroit i believe it was the mayor yeah it was like i don't want to say that i should be real clear i don't know if it was really the mayor so don't sue me yeah but someone got someone in detroit yeah for something almost hilarious yeah yeah yeah like whenever a mayor gets popped for something sexual, it's fucking riot.

Well, my favorite mayor stuff of all time was Marion Barry when he got caught smoking crack, went to jail, got out of jail and won again. Yeah. Oh, that was beautiful. And won again. Former mayor of Detroit a couple of years ago got sentenced to prison. What was it for? Corruption. Yeah. 28 years. Yeah, that got sentenced to prison. What was it for? Corruption. Yeah.

28 years. Yeah, that's it. Okay. That's it. Yeah, he was the former mayor when he got arrested. Yeah, that's the dude. Ex-Detroit mayor sentenced to 28 years in prison for corruption. Who's name is...

Is that Kwame? Kwame? Yeah, Kilpatrick. Kwame. Oh, Kwame. 28 years for corruption following a series of scandals that showed that he had unchecked power while in office. Bam!

Unchecked, motherfucker. Like Empire. I haven't seen Empire. But that's what it looks like. Unchecked power. Yeah. What do you want to do? Damn.

Why else would he be mayor? He wants to get his freak on. I know. Mayor. Yeah, yeah, damn. Why else would he be mayor once he gets freak on? I know mayor this the thing is imagine if you went on a path to being president 20 years ago Which Obama most likely did right? Yeah, so think about it. He what is he now? He's like 50 So back then he was 30 50s. Yeah, you think about when he was 30 and he's thinking to himself, you know I'm gonna be the president United States. I'm on this path and I'm seeing all the pussy that John F Kennedy got and I'm seeing all the pussy that John F. Kennedy got and I'm seeing all the power that all these

other presidents had and I'm seeing all the respect they got when they got out of office and then as obviously he definitely didn't think that he would get all the pussy that JFK he's sure he's a faithful man. Just in the vein of humor. But it's nice to be offered.

It's nice to know that you could possibly have the kind of power to shut the lights out on people. Make them disappear. He does that. He does. He could, right? And then in those 20 years, you see the world change so drastically.

Well, you see Clinton get popped with Monica Lewinsky. That was step one. Like, oh, shit. I still want to do this? Yeah. Like, oh, shit. I still want to do this? Yeah. Like, look at this. But Bush manages to go through, and then social media comes around. And in the midst of the social media world, that's when Obama steps in.

So the amount of scrutiny and insults and the amount of data that's directed his way, as opposed to every other president before him. It's like unprecedented Yeah, there's never been a guy that's been subject to so many different signals of negativity Coming his way because before that people were sort of voiceless. They couldn't really do anything but in Obama's time Blogs became way more prominent Yeah, online news sources and many people's world replaced the the regular news print yeah so it's not just what are they talking what are they saying about me in the new york times it's right thousands of different blogs and oh it's amazing man amazing change of events that have rendered the position incredibly unattractive. So then, eight years later, this is what you get.

You get crazy old Bernie Sanders with his fucking wacky hairdo. Yeah. Who hates money. Yeah. You get crazy old Hillary Clinton who's shrieking and she's built like a fucking Converse All-Star box. The whole thing is, she looks like her body's failing. It makes me uncomfortable and I see her I

Think I think she's probably fine. I think she's probably in good health. I don't know man. I just think she's not I Know how bad she wants it, but she doesn't have charisma And but even if she got it look look at the amount of fucking stress that's involved in that job How can that possibly be healthy for someone who's really older? She'll handle it. You think so? Yeah. If she were to get the job, she would handle that better than Obama probably handles the stress.

Because she's been in the trenches her whole life, right? Yeah. Well, she's fucking like you got no question that she knows how to play the game. That it's a game to her and that she's trying to win. She's trying to do some nice shit for people. You know, she's trying to help people out. But completely cynical. You know, 100%.

I mean, she was the Secretary of State. She's had people killed. You know? She's ordered drone strikes. Oh, 100%. So, she's fine. You saw know she's ordered drone strikes oh 100 so well do you she's fine you saw her reaction to godolphin you saw that that news piece what these people were talking to her and she sits down she goes we came we saw he died yeah yeah you've seen that right no no you've never seen it no but i've you must watch it because there's a thug life version of it too

that's the one to put up pull up the thug life version of it, too. That's the one to put up. Pull up the thug life version of it. But it just shows you, again, what was she? She was a lawyer. Yep, she was a lawyer. And these lawyers who eventually become politicians, they like to win. I just, what my physical, like, people are like, why do you worry about her physically? Maybe I didn't explain or maybe you haven't heard. It is alleged, and I think it's sort of been reported on that she had blacked out and fallen and hit in her head recently okay in the last few years she's 70 it's gonna happen

but um that she had had a fairly traumatic brain injury from that that was uh something pull that up jamie see if you can find that story. Because that might be Republican bullshit. I might be like proliferating Republican propaganda. Also, Ronald Reagan had some brain damage, and he was amazing. You know? Like, maybe we don't get a president with a 100% thinker. It doesn't matter.

I mean, it definitely matters. But at this point in time, I wonder. The Ronald Reagan thing was interesting because he deteriorated as he was in office. He started off very fresh. If you go back and listen to some of his early speeches, like Ronald Reagan gave a hell of a speech. Like tear down that wall? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

He had that one super bizarre speech. Do you remember this one where? He was standing in front of the United Nations I believe and he gave a speech about how quickly we would all put our differences aside If we were attacked by aliens from another planet He's 100% right. He's 100 he is 100 right but i mean it was one of the strangest fucking speeches ever yeah and the like it is one that the ufo lovers have clung to like a life raft he knew he knew ronald was gonna tell us he knew mate yeah he's like yeah remember that cold war that we just all of a

sudden stopped in 1989 yeah yeah work on lasers if you have you seen that one that speech it's it's really interesting i'm gonna look that up did you find the hillary one the thug life one i i found a thug life one but i'm not sure that it's about gaddafi oh okay but i was we came we saw he died if that's the speech she's like sitting getting interviewed the only thing i find about I'm not sure that it's about Gaddafi. Oh, okay. We came, we saw, he died. That's the speech. She's like sitting, getting interviewed. The only thing I find about brain cancer is like National Enquirer. No, not brain cancer.

No, no, no. She fell and hit her head. Yeah, I was going to say, I found anything about that concussion she had. She might be suffering from post-concussion syndrome. Is this from the Enquirer? This is not from that. It's from Breitbart. Okay.

Might as well be. From earlier this year. I know. I didn't find? This is not from that. It's from Breitbart. Okay. Might as well be. From earlier this year. I know. I didn't find anything from much other regarding that. So I did repeat Republican propaganda. Ladies and gentlemen, at least I called myself out on it. That's how they get you. Find out if that is in any way substantiated.

She did have a concussion, but I don't know the effects that she's suffering from it. Okay, well, when you're that old and you had a concussion, you're going to have some fucking issues. Yeah. What those issues are and whether or not they're treatable, that's something only she would know. Yeah. Well, George Bush fucking puked his guts out all over the prime minister of Japan. Well, he also fell and blacked out and hit his head because he choked on a pretzel. No, earlier George Bush.

Oh, old school. Yeah. Old school, Herbert Walker. Yeah. Yeah. Remember when there was like, that was the big conspiracy because Bush had like bruises and a black eye and shit and somebody beat the fuck out of the president. But then he said he choked with a pretzel in his mouth and fell and hit his face.

Like if I was the Illuminati and I was going to beat up the president, that's what I'd make him say. I want you to tell them that you choked on a pretzel. Okay, I choked on a pretzel. You choked on a pretzel, and what happened? What happened? You blacked out, stupid.

You fell and you hit your fucking head, okay? And then you got this black eye. What black eye? Psh! Oh! Oh! Yeah, do you think the Illuminati beat up black guy? Psh. Oh. Oh. Yeah, do you think the Illuminati beat up George Bush? Tell me.

Uh, no. I think probably Dick Cheney hit him in the face. Dick Cheney just beat the fuck out of him? Yeah. Probably fucked him, too. I mean, but that was probably tender. Like, they got a history together. I used to have a bit about Dick Cheney because Dick Cheney shot his friend in the face

Mm-hmm, and he made his friend apologize. Yeah, no shit. Dick Cheney's hard fucking core. I mean come on man This that guy was on TV Apologizing for Dick Cheney after Dick shot him in the face. Yeah, and he was like 70 Yeah, he shot him in the face at 70 with a shotgun Yeah, I put I put Hillary Clinton and Dick Cheney kind of in the same boat as like the Henry Kiss. And you're like, oh, yeah, they'll just do whatever. Like if they decide someone needs to go, they'll just, you know, that's just that. Dick Cheney, who's a scary guy.

And he's also still involved. Like he still, he absolutely believes in voicing his opinion on what should and shouldn't be done internationally, like, even now and today. And he scares me. Yeah. Well, he has to be. Like, he has to stay kind of involved because

you know that he committed war crimes. Everybody knows that, you know. I mean, shit, he fucking engineered war profiteering against our own you know like so you think that he stays he stays active so that he avoids prosecution by constantly staying in the mix yep and george bush did the opposite so they both ran in separate directions dick cheney shows up and well, we had to torture him because we needed intelligence. Good. It's a good impression.

I try. And then George Bush stays the fuck out of it, because if you notice, those guys don't travel internationally so much. Yeah, that's probably a bad move. They don't travel internationally because the jurisdiction for human rights violations is worldwide. It makes them technically hosti humani generis, meaning enemies of mankind at large. So just like Spain did with Pinochet, any court can try them. They just need to be able to say that the courts in their home jurisdiction or where it happened are not able to do it, and then they can do it. So they stay here. They go to... So do they have treaties with any countries?

Like, is there any country that they know for sure won't prosecute them if they travel internationally? Um, it, yeah, there's country, there's jurisdictions where they know won't prosecute them. Like they can go to the UK. Well, but the thing is the ability to prosecute someone for war crimes under the Hague and, someone for war crimes under the Hague. And, you know, because these trend, these human rights violation rules,

Trump, all the treaties, they Trump fucking everything, except for a couple small technical points. So a county prosecutor in Nebraska could file the charges against Dick Cheney. Whoa. And although that might violate United States law, and they might say, you have to do it here or here or here. No.

I mean, basically, like, so any enterprising prosecutor in Spain, if they could lay their hands on him, they can do him. Anybody, any process. So depending on the way that the country organizes its prosecution system the lowest level person competent to make the decision could potentially try to jack him up you know so like i'm saying like his level of travel has to be so well coordinated because a fucking county sheriff could take him in for this shit the wrong county sheriff could pick him up on this has anybody ever tried to do that no no and that's you know why they don't travel because

the fact that nobody's ever even tried to do that and the evidence is overwhelming and clear that dick cheney you know for instance Remember the guy who authored the report saying that torture was okay Yeah, that itself is a violation of international law for which you can be prosecuted So and that's just that's the tip of the iceberg so that guy can't because when if he I mean they can travel a little bit but there's countries they can't go to because they'll snap him up and prosecute him because yeah these just i forget exactly what i'm talking like it's hard to explain anyone can prosecute him for any of the shit everybody has the proof and when he goes to

other countries they will use the fact that we have not prosecuted him here as proof that we're not going to which will allow them to go forward So all it would take would be like say if he decides to make a trip to you know, whatever some European country Yeah, all we take is one ambitious person. Yep. That's what happened to Pinochet And That was a I think a decade-long fight. That's why that's what happened to Pinochet and that was a I think a decade-long fight that's why that's so fascinating yeah that's why Pol Pot never left Cambodia it's it's so also so fascinating that we have these weird rules that the presidents have yeah like where presidents can get away with certain things like they can admonish people or they could uh rather um

release people from jail yeah they can suspend their sentences for federal offenses uh and governors can do it for state offenses it's just one of those you gotta have a release valve on some shit and they use it like bill clinton did it for a lot of political how many pardons do they get as many as you want what yeah as many as you want and you can get someone out like for a violent crime There is it depending on the jurisdiction for instance in Wisconsin There is no functional limit on the power of the governor to let you out what yeah or pardon you There's no limit. He's the that governor and other governors before of him if instituted sort of

Boards that will review requests for clemencies and pardons and shit like that and they have Ad-hoc rules where they're like well, it's got to be at least five years ago You got to show us this and this and this but in reality he could do whatever the fuck he wants That's insane because he's the executive. County sheriffs also have the ability to release people from jail because they run the jail. A sentence only says that you should be confined for this for X amount of time. And the governor is in charge of the Department of Corrections. So he can let you out early if he feels like it.

And county sheriff is in charge of the Department of Corrections. So he can let you out early if he feels like it. And County Sheriff is in charge of the jail, and if County Sheriff needs a room, he can kick you out. That's what he did with Paris Hilton. He said, I need the bed for somebody else. Get out. And they can do that. There are some minor checks on it, and prosecutors get really mad, but no.

They have almost free reign in the area of pardons. That's like some king shit. It is king shit. It is... That is what kings can do. It is the power of life and death.

But that's a strange thing to give someone. It's so weird that that still exists. It has to exist because you cannot trust the courts to do fairness. Really? Yeah. But you cannot trust the courts to do fairness really yeah but you can trust the governor courts are good for technical points but every now and again there's a guy and he's in and the courts won't listen so the governor's got to be able to let him out like oh man that seems like it opens the door for a lot of fuckery. No, because everybody's looking.

Like, you can't pardon someone without everybody knowing. Right, but on a fence case, you know, when you're sitting on the fence on it? Well, they're not going to... You can influence someone one way or another, no? I mean, Nixon got a pardon. Did he really? Who pardoned Nixon? I don't know, but Clinton pardoned his own brother, I'm pretty sure.

Oh! How dare you? Yeah, you can just do that. Yeah. His drug-offending brother. Yep. In his final executive act. Yep.

And Susan McDougal, his Whitewater business partner. Patty Hearst. And a... Whoa, Patty Hearst? And a member of the Symbionese Liberation Army. Jesus Christ. I also want to add, though, I was just looking up that George Bush Cheney thing. Supposedly it's false that they don't actually have outstanding warrants right now.

No, they don't have warrants. Or they're not necessarily wanted. No, they're not wanted. Anyone can file the charges. Oh, no charges have been filed. Yeah, there's no. I got you. No, no one has to file charges.

But basically tens of thousands of different prosecutors across the globe could. They can do it. But they're not going to do it unless they can get their hands on them. Look at all the other people on the list that Clinton pardoned. He pardoned that Michael Milken junk bond king. Oh, Milken's got an office in santa monica now that guy was that guy was terrible person he fucked people over man right i mean did a lot of people get fucked over by that guy uh tons of people got fucked over by that guy um the white

water business partner too that's a that's crazy but no Michael Milken has a nice little foundation where he teaches kids music look at this she a Clinton friend from Arkansas spent 18 months in prison after refusing to give evidence that might implicate the president and first lady in a bank fraud while he was the state's governor that's so gangster how much do you think she got paid? After he pardoned her, how much did she get paid? Shushing! Yeah, I mean, they roll deep. I'm sure she's doing

fine. Yeah, how does that work, though? How do you pay someone off like that? Clinton Foundation. Oh, yeah, you give them a job. What a great idea. Clinton Foundation. Because the Clinton Foundation Like one of those Charities That are like

You go and look at Exactly how much Goes to the actual Actual cause Is it one of those things? Yeah it's just money That pays themselves And so they can take trips

And what not Isn't that adorable? Did you see she got Her FBI meeting This weekend Who did? She had a three and a half Hour meeting with the FBI

Yeah Hillary did I was seeing some other Reports that Bill Clinton Had three and a half hour meeting with the FBI. Yeah, Hillary did. I was seeing some other reports that Bill Clinton had like a special in-air meeting with one of the people that were going to talk to her before it. Yeah, someone from Arizona or something like that. Is that where it was? He said he made a impromptu

trip to visit her. Who impromptu is on a jet? Anybody? Anybody out there? Anybody impromptu? I'd love to be impromptu on a jet. How baller is he? Anybody in Promptu? I'd love to be in Promptu on a jet. I mean, like. How baller is he? Yeah. I was just in the air.

I decided to go by and say hello and offer a piece of pie. Yeah. I was just coming over to be neighborly in my fucking private jet. He's super concerned about the environment, but yet flying around in a private jet. Well, no, that was his little brother, Al Gore. This whole thing is so rigged, man. It's such a strange, strange world we're living in. We're going to have, what is this, 20 years of supposedly democracy,

and there's only two different last names? Three different last names. Thanks, Obama. Yeah, Obama snuck in there. They almost turned it around again with this. They wanted it to be Bush-Clinton, but Bush is just not very good at it. No. This Jeb guy is just not very good at it.

I feel like he threw in the towel. Like he gave, like. Yeah, I feel like he was like, fuck you guys. I don't want this job. And he, like, stumbled his way through some shit. Yeah. Well, I bet you it was. I bet you he was a little hurt that he didn't get picked for 2000.

And then there was a day where he was like, whew, thank God I'm not that guy. I'm waiting for someone to get up there and just go, this job can't be done. Don't elect me because this job can't be done. No one can do this job. I'm voting for you because if you vote for me'm asking you to vote for me yeah you vote for me I'm gonna get rid of this job yeah first thing I do is president is get rid of the president yeah we may be we maybe need two presidents is a lot of probably like a hundred yeah you need a council yeah of elders I can't preside over this much in pardon Jimmy Hoffa but

he was dead and then Jimmy Er then Nixon was pardoned by Ford, and that's what led to him not getting re-elected. Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah. So, yeah. That's what led to Ford not being re-elected? Yeah, they said that's like the... may have contributed to his defeat.

I mean, it's not the only thing. Also, I'm not a crook. Also, I think Ford's obsession with combating inflation did him in. Did you ever see the thing that Hunter S. Thompson did with Bill Murray? And it was, they were mock trying to bring Dick back and see how many people would go for it. They were just trying to show how easy it is to manipulate people and how dumb they are politically. And he was trying to bring back, see if you can find that man.

It was like, bring Nixon back, you know, bring Nixon back. Yeah. They had like Nixon masks and stuff and they were trying to, you got a bad deal, you got a bum deal. Yeah. And they were talking to people on the street and trying to convince them. But it was Bill Murray and Hunter S. Thompson. It was from something Gonzo and Hollywood or something like that.

It was like a documentary that they did. There should probably be a clip of it somewhere. My family hated Richard Nixon growing up because when Richard Nixon came to Wisconsin Rapids, my grandfather arranged for a Cadillac for him as he got off the plane. And to address the people, he stood on the Cadillac scratched the hood with his shoes and refused to pay for it whoa that was so not anything about the spying that was not my family's problem with Richard Nixon it was that he scratched the hood of a Cadillac well that was a piece of shit move yeah and that shows man's character yeah like here's a here's an example um my friend Brian Callen.

Do you know Brian Callen? Yeah, met him. Hilarious stand-up comedian. Awesome human being. His mom told him once that she caught a guy cheating at golf and she told her husband, don't ever trust that guy.

Don't do business with him because he cheats at golf. He'll cheat at everything else too. Just a casual game of golf amongst friends and she caught him cheating yeah yeah like man you're gonna win that bad yeah that into golf that transfer is over yeah yeah it really does yeah so in that sense what are you looking up again uh hunter thompson nixon you still haven't found it i got a picture of bill murray Thompson and Nixon thing, but nothing.

Oh, I wish I could remember the actual name of the documentary, but it was a BBC documentary. They did on him. It was really interesting stuff. And part of it, he talked to one of the guys who testified against Nixon. And this guy was in deep, deep trouble before the tapes came out. talked to one of the guys who testified against Nixon. And, uh, this guy was like in deep, deep trouble before the tapes came out. And then the tapes came out and exonerated him and proved that what he was saying was,

was true. But Hunter was talking to him and interviewing this guy just shows you, um, the times then like we're so much more sinister and what the government was capable of doing, like in many ways they've been sort of defanged. I mean, yeah, they can't break, they can't get away with as much easy shit.

Right. Like, maybe they don't have fangs, but now they have tentacles. Right. So it's like a Japanese monster situation. Like drones, things along those lines. They have drones and, I mean, you know, they have Facebook. Yeah.

So they can create 11,000 fake profiles on Facebook and send out friend requests and now they know where everybody is who's got their shit marked public. You know? They know when you're in the valley. They know when you're at Burger King. Are they really looking out for you, though? Are they really following you? No. No. I mean mean most of this data is bullshit that they can never use but but they're accumulating it because they're i mean they're like marmosets like if you ever see marmosets at the zoo put something colorful up against the glass and you got their attention and our personal details although completely fucking worthless and useless and boring, it's interesting to somebody.

And so they want that shit. They want to know who we're calling. They're obsessed with that stuff because they're curious because they're people. And so they collect it thinking we might get a use for this or we might figure out that somebody's a terrorist and then we'll get everybody that they call. And then they hang on to all this other stuff because that might be useful, too. They're just hoarders like they're creepy hoarders right and it's under the guise that one day you might commit a crime yeah one day we might need this so we're gonna keep this that's what a hoarder thinks well it's not really just hoarding because it's you're you're hoarding other people's stuff right

i mean it really is other people's personal data which we haven't really we haven't really made the concession that if I use email or if I make phone calls or if I send texts the government has all this we haven't made that concession yet right now but it seems to be reality it is reality yeah yeah but that but no one has agreed to that yet and there's like a freedom no need it for freedom yeah well and every time something like that goes to court, in an actual court as opposed to their FISA courts where we're not even allowed to know what they're asking for, when they go in regular court, they lose. But then they just go and do it in the secret court that lets them do whatever the fuck they want. Well, also, do you know how many times terrorist attacks have been stopped by tapping into people's phones and reviewing people's emails?

I'm going to guess zero. I would say zero. Yeah, I'm going to go with zero. I mean, maybe one or two. But you know what they like to do that's adorable? They like to create terror scenarios. Yeah. Have you paid attention to those?

Where they talk a guy into blowing something up, give him a bomb, and then arrest him when he tries to detonate the bomb because the bomb wasn't real in the first place yeah they used to do that to black panthers and everybody in the 60s and 70s well they used to love that yeah and that was another thing that we uh learned about the nixon administration with uh in terms of the civil rights movement and in terms of the anti-war movement yeah this is it this is the this is the actual video itself. He calls in two friends, both actors, to help stage the inaugural rally.

This man got a raw deal. So it's Bill Murray and his brother, who's also an actor. I forget his brother's name. Tonight we're going to ask him to pardon us. It's called Omnibus. Brian Doyle Murray. Oh, Omnibus.

Yeah, Brian Doyle Murray. Thank you. Ask Nixon to pardon us. Ask Nixon to pardon us. Ask Nixon to pardon us. Ask Nixon to pardon us. Ask Nixon to pardon us. Now more than ever. The meeting in Beverly Hills isn't a runaway success.

There's a total attendance of three. That's the voice. You don't forgive Richard Nixon? Yeah. When I came here, I'll be honest, I don't forgive Richard Nixon? When I came here I'll be honest I didn't forgive him And Why have you changed your mind?

Your speech The excitement tonight I think I'm wearing that shirt Everything surrounding my mind Is being changed tonight That dude's serious That dude's serious The Scientologists

They're watching that They're going Fuck we could've got that guy. We could have got that guy. Now Nixon's got him. Shit. So that was what? 1978?

Yeah. That's hilarious. That's many years after Watergate. Yeah. Hilarious. Yeah. Well, they can't do that anymore. But this whole email thing, the Clinton email thing, that's bizarre.

That's a bizarre one. You know what their problem is? What? They did Whitewater. Like, the Clintons beat him at Whitewater. Right. Even though he fucking pardoned people that worked for him who did time. Right.

They beat Whitewater. Explain what Whitewater was. Because a lot of people think it's Watergate okay when you're old when you're in government you're privy to some things about where roads might go or where electricity might be routed you just get information and if you do that stuff you could make real estate investments you can't profit and if you do that stuff you could make real estate investments you can't profit from stuff like that that would be wrong but what if your wife was a consultant that's not exactly how whitewater went down but that is how most of the corrupt politicians that you see operate their wives

have bullshit jobs and the bribes are funneled in through that in substantial part and so it could be uh green lighting something or it could be but yeah it's just it was just a real estate scandal and it was probably just real estate investments that went bad and their books probably were not in order. So then they had to keep their mouths shut. They probably weren't really fucking around that much. What's really fascinating is there's one that's more obvious and more blatant that no one bats an eye on. And that's the Dick Cheney, Halliburton connection. Well, yeah, I mean, it's not family and it's not marriage, but when you look at the fact that this guy was a CEO of Halliburton and Halliburton gets these no-bid contracts for billions of dollars.

And elected officials are supposed to kind of sequester their assets in trusts, blind trusts, so that they don't really know if they're benefiting their ownership interest in Halliburton or Kellogg Brown. Whatever. No, it's bullshit. Yeah, it's bullshit. You're supposed to just pretend like you don't own it. are benefiting their ownership interest in Halliburton or Kellogg Brown. What? Ever. No, it's bullshit. Yeah, it's bullshit. You're supposed to just pretend like you don't own it. And if you put it on paper in a blind trust meant to benefit you and your assigns,

you technically no longer own it. Well, let's just be the most optimistic possible. Let's say Dick Cheney didn't profit from Hal Burton having all these no-bid contracts. Then he's a fool. But he still hooked up a buddy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, either way, he used to work there, man. He used to be the CEO. And then he hooked him up with selling $48 cases of soda.

48 bucks. Well, it would cost a lot of money to get soda to Iraq in his defense. Yeah, it doesn't. It does not. You've got to get it, put it on a plane, got to get soda to Iraq in his defense. Yeah, it doesn't. It does not. You've got to get it, put it on a plane, you've got to hire someone to carry it. I know. And for that, they could have built a fucking Coca-Cola plant.

Yeah, but you don't want cultural appropriation. You know, go over there. Cultural appropriation. Super bad. No, that's... Go over there with Coca-Cola. That's colonialism, I think that is. That's technically colonialism.

It's just, it's amazing that they pulled that off, and that's not under investigation. But Whitewater, which is a fucked up real estate venture. Yeah, like four million bucks worth of real estate versus, I don't know, a trillion dollars. That may be incentive to go to war. Maybe incentive to do certain actions that caused massive loss of life. Well, I mean, they thought they were going to win and make a nice chunk of change. Yeah. That's crazy.

Shit spun out of control, and they ended up making a lot of money. And that's real. Like, what is the movie going to be like that we're going to evidently, evidently, eventually watch. Like, there's going to be a movie in maybe 10 or 15 years where it shows the madness that was the original Iraq War and the call to all these people that there was weapons of mass destruction and people testifying to them and realizing it was bullshit, all the chaos involved and all the behind-the-scenes shit. Like, someone's's gonna do a badass

movie like a platoon oliver stone style movie about that war it's coming right yeah probably i mean they've done the hurt locker they've done zero dark 30 they did the tina fey one in afghanistan yeah um tina fey. Yeah. Is it a comedy? Yeah. Is this a comedy in Afghanistan? It's called WTF, I think, or something like that.

Is this real? Yeah, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Has it been out yet? It just came out a couple months ago. Yeah. There's too many movies.

You know what the problem is? There are literally too many movies to watch because they don't stop making movies and you can never watch all the movies that have ever even been made.

So it's like being in debt but still buying shit. There's no way you're going to catch up on the great movies. you can never watch all the movies that have already been made. So it's like being in debt but still buying shit. There's no way you're going to catch up on the great movies. Yeah. I can't watch all the superhero movies that come out. There's too many of them. I'm done. I think.

I'm done. They're too obvious. Yeah. I want more Watchmen. You know? Yeah. That was a real fucking superhero movie. That was a great movie.

I want more of those. Come on, people. Yeah. You know? Yeah. fucking superhero movie like that was a great movie that i want more of those come on people yeah you know yeah i haven't that's like the last time i saw a superhero movie that felt like it grew up with me do you know i'm saying did you read it before did you know anything about it nothing knew nothing that helps that yeah because maybe i would be disappointed if i had read the stuff yeah they think they're fucking up your yeah that's that is a maybe i would be disappointed if i had read this stuff yeah they think they're fucking up your yeah that's that is a problem but i mean that's a problem if you're a hardcore fan i remember squad looks interesting because i've never seen i didn't read that shit

but it's cool to see a bunch of villains get together and do something i've never seen them do yeah that'd be cool it looks it looks really fascinating it looks uh like it's going to be really dark and creepy and shit. Maybe it'll be fun. It's totally possible that could be something like Watchmen. But Watchmen's my favorite superhero movie, I think. What's yours? I was just trying to remember. I remember when I saw The Avengers, the first one, a couple years ago,

when it first came out and they fucked up New York and everyone loved it. That was awesome, but it also could have been, it was the first time we saw the conglomeration of all the superheroes together I could go back and watch it now and probably have different thoughts on it right because if and if you do another one well we already know they get together like the the whole charm of them getting together for the first time has been worn off yeah yeah and how are you gonna get the Hulk to listen to you get the fuck out of here bitch I didn't buy any of that i'm like he's not going to listen that's why he left he's sad he's gone you can't find him now but he was the best hulk though

that dude what's his name yeah yeah that's the best hulk movie i think yeah yeah for sure yeah he was full-on bill bixby yeah mark ruffalo's a badass actor yeah like he i believe that he was smart enough to create the kind of you know conditions that would lead to him being the hulk and he's and he plays it like so far yeah like like a guy like when eric bonin and norton did it it they kind of missed the point of like now you're you know you're a guy who turns into the hulk like lot. You're fucking sick of it. Like it's not cool anymore. You're just like, God fucking damn it. I'm the fucking Hulk.

Like it's, you know, it's like being an alcoholic, like blacking out and waking up in Tijuana. That's the Hulk's life. And then he has to move on. Like it's frustrating. And like he played that frustration really well. You know what the number one problem with all the Hulk movies and all the Hulk comic books are? Number one problem. His pants.

Yeah. What the fuck is going on? Yeah. Those pants would not survive. He's so much bigger than Mark Ruffalo. Yeah. And those pants stretch to fit his gigantic ass, huge thighs. Yeah.

But the shirt's off. This is a related story to today. I just typed in the Hulk on Google there's a guy he's gonna fight Isis he looks like the Hulk this guy's going to fight Isis he looks like a gorilla he's like that's the hairiest guy always he yeah Persian Hulk, that guy's huge. He wants to fight ISIS? Does he know they have guns? Giant 24 stone bodybuilder. I don't know how much that is. I think a stone is 13 pounds. Is that right?

Google that. 24? How the fuck did he get that big at 24? How long has that guy been doing Star Wars? A giant man with a fierce expression. There's a cult following on Instagram where he posts what he does best, weightlifting.

This is just a guy that wants attention. They're giving him attention. This is so silly. He's going to stick his head back and flex his traps and that's how he's going to fight ISIS? I don't think that's going to work. I mean, he could probably throw tennis balls

hard enough to kill someone. Probably throw like five pound weights. I don't think he'd kill anybody with a tennis ball. No. I mean, maybe like choke them. Put something in it. I mean, if you get it right in their mouth. Even if you get it right in their mouth, you'd have to hold it in there.

Yeah, you're right. They can breathe through their nose. Yeah, and then you have to like cover their nose. And that would be what kills them. I have to rework my plan to kill a bunch of people because it involved tennis balls, and I realize it's not going to work. It's not going to work. It's not going to work.

You could get fucked up by a tennis ball. You'd probably get some nice CTE from a headshot to the temple. Like one of those tennis machines that serves. American gladiators. Ka-plop. Ka-plop. Ka-plop. Like, if you see how fast one of those, like, who's, like, the best male Federer?

Is that the guy? Is that the guy's name? I think they're getting 108. 108? I want to say 180. They're getting close. 180 miles an hour with a tennis ball? I'll check right now.

Yeah, imagine catching that on the nose. Yeah. Yeah, you're going to get some CTE. You're going to get some sparks will fly. You're going to lose some memories. Yeah. You're going to get a black eye like George Bush. 163 is the fastest.

Whoa, that's fast. God damn, that's fast. Tennis ball hitting the temple at 163 miles an hour. And what is a golf ball then? Golf ball is probably even faster, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because it cuts the air better too, right?

It's also getting hit off of a solid piece of metal instead of just some strings. Right, right, right? It's also getting hit off of a solid piece of metal instead of just some strings. Right, right, right. And it's also getting hit today with these crazy flexy poles that have a certain amount of carbon fiber in them. And they know exactly how to... 211. Whoa. Yeah, because the arm is... 211.

My friend Ryan got hit in the head. Ryan Parsons. Shout out to Ryan Parsons. He got hit in the head with a golf ball, a line drive, fucking teed him in the head. And he said he was fucked up for like six months. This is unofficial, 237. Jesus Christ. What's his name, Ryan Winther?

Yep. Jesus Christ. That guy had some ass in that shot. Show that again. Look at all the ass that some ass in that shot. Show that again. Look at all the ass that guy got in that shot. Maybe that's his secret. Like, everybody else works out the shoulders, and he's just like, nah, man, it's all in the ass. Well, he's a big dude, too.

Like, look at his thighs and all that shit. But watch this. Watch this. Wham! Put that ass in there. That's what? Spin? Tiger's back is all fucked up.

He can't even play now because of all the torque he's put on his back over the years. Really? That's where all his powers come from. They said that his stance and his stroke were unconventional. So in the unconventional stance and stroke, I don't know if this is true or not, but did that put any pressure whatsoever on his spine in some weird way too? Sure. Yeah, the amount of twist.

He was killing the ball. I mean, he also may or may not have been enhancing anything. What are you saying? I don't know him. I don't know his doctors. Why don't you just get back on the shit? Are they testing him? I would have to be now.

Really? They test people for golf? For golf? There's so much money. When we pulled up the top ten earners the other day, I think we were doing the Fight Companion, I switched the amount of money they make. I'd switched the amount of money they make from their sport to the amount of money

they make from endorsements. Three of the top four are golfers. All of them make over $50 million a year in endorsements. Those are expensive products they're endorsing. It's not just that. It's the people that are endorsing them usually are run by golfers.

Big time business investors, they fucking love are run by golfers. Like big-time business investors, they fucking love making meetings on golf courses. It's a point of focus, and it's also a point of recreation because they gamble, you know, and they'll make deals with each other on golf courses. So if they have, like, Tiger Woods representing them or Roger Federer or whatever his name is, one of those dudes, one of those badass golfers do it.

They feel like they're cool. It makes their company cooler. It's probably good for business. They'll do a couple ads, and then they'll make them come out a couple times, play golf with their friends. What's that? Two of them are, not three. But Roger Federer is making $60.

He's a tennis player. Good Lord. And then LeBron is $54. Tiger's still up there, though, and he has barely played in the last couple years. He made $45 million in endorsements last year. That's incredible. And what's really incredible about it, too, is that he went crashing to the ground, and then still, by the weight of his name, more than his accomplishments post-scandal,

he's bounced back up to $45 million a year. Woo! And look at what he made from actual playing. Yeah, he made like 300,000, it says. Yeah, that's incredible. Look at Mickelson. That's incredible. I mean, that really is incredible that he's made that much money.

Wow. It's amazing how much money those fucking golfers make. It's amazing. I mean, he, yeah, even though he made almost nothing, dollars playing golf last year, and then $45 million. Phil Mickelson, look at that guy, number three, with $52.9 million and $50 million of it in endorsements. That is insane.

So he's a super successful golfer, $2.9 million in winnings. That's not even winning tournaments either. Oh, really? He might have won a couple, if not at all, last year. Oh, okay. Second, third, fourth, fifth place. So is he just a super famous guy? Yeah, he's got money for showing up, too.

Yeah. He's been good. He's been a great golfer for a long time. Wow. And how about this Northern Ireland guy, Rory McGilroy? McElroy, yeah. McElroy. He's the new young guy.

McElroy, homeboy, nobody, I mean, I've never heard of him. Have you heard of him? Homeboy McElroy? No, I have not. Okay, homeboy made $35 million. So, yeah. In endorsements. Golf is nuts. What a nutty game. It's interesting how many rich people have attached themselves to that game. What's the dumbest sport that somebody made a lot of money in endorsement? How much do you think they make curling?

Yeah, look for the top curler curls get mad when you bring this up by the way There's a bunch of people in Canada got really pissed at me for talking shit about curling They actually got pissed not ironically auto racing Well, it's pretty badass though. Yeah. Well Earnhardt you'd think Earnhardt would be cleaning up way more than Everybody else Well, Earnhardt, you'd think Earnhardt would be cleaning up way more than everybody else. Formula One. Auto racing is amazing. I mean, that to me is one of the craziest things to dedicate your life to.

Those Formula One guys. My God. It's interesting how that doesn't really fly over here. But yet we do like fast cars. Like, why do we like NASCAR, but we don't like formula one um i think nascar well didn't nascar start from uh bootlegging races yeah so that's pretty fucking real you know pretty dope actually yeah so it's like formula one doesn't have that kind of fucking backstory it's like they used to have to have a trunk whereas formula one is just like like really a race car yeah yeah the nascar vehicles they had to be able to store whiskey in them while they're avoiding the fuzz yeah well yeah like the i think the beauty

of that is kind of like for nascar it sort of has to be a car that you could get you know like it's got to be based on a car that the rest of us could get yeah you know like exactly when somebody's just fucking crushing it in a chevy yeah yeah whereas opposed to when somebody's like it's a goddamn 14 foot needle right like wings on it yeah and then there's a the guy sitting in the cockpit which is in the center, and he's exposed. Yeah. You know, those Ayrton Senna videos of him when he was at the top of the heap in racing and watching from his perspective. Like, have you ever seen some of those videos? No.

Dude, like, when you see the video from a perspective of a person actually driving the car, it's phenomenal. I mean, it's amazing what a fast, insane experience it is to be in a Formula One car and make those turns. Like, that to me is one of the most exciting things to watch in all of sports because they're just, especially if you could look at it from their point of view, I mean, you're grabbing the cushions of the couch going, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Yeah.

Because they're making these split-second decisions. They have to take these tight turns. They're avoiding people around them. They're trying to cut corners. Like, look at this guy. Look at this fucking car. Listen to this. Now, we're watching this video.

Jamie, what's the name of this video? It says, first time ever eye-level camera Formula One. This is probably what I've seen online. Like, this looks like so much goddamn fun. Oh, yeah. This guy is fucking flying in this thing. And he doesn't have a windshield. He has this little tiny windshield that's about six inches long.

Or six inches high, rather. And he's got just goggles on and a face mask and the whole deal and a helmet. But he's essentially exposed in this super rocket ship that's got a controlled explosion going on. Yeah. Flying around this track with amazing sounds. Yeah, it's just... It says they do up to 5 Gs, and NASCAR gets up to only 2. Oh, I could imagine.

Oh, yeah. 5 Gs is insane. You probably have to have an insanely strong neck. Yeah, well, I think your head's stuck in place by some gadget now. I mean, it definitely is in NASCAR, because a lot of people got really fucked up. Oh, really? A little correction there. See that?

See that quick move of the hand? Woo-hoo. Ass hand kicked out a little bit on him. Dude, then fucking knobs on that car. Insane. Joe, do you know what those buttons do at all? Yeah, what does the green number two knob do? Well, all those lights that go across, those are indicating the RPMs

because they have those in some cars. So when you see his light go and it goes from green, you can see it in better images. But he has, like, see there, those lights? That's to let him know most likely what his RPMs are at and when he's in danger of blowing his engine. Nice. I don't know if these guys have regulators on their engine.

This is probably a stupid question. Car people are going crazy. Because like, if you buy a new car today, they have rev limiters, so you'll get to certain RPMs where you could fucking torch your engine and it'll back you off. Okay. Goddamn, that looks fun, though.

I get excited just watching that. Adrenaline. Yeah. The thrill of the chase. And what else? What else, Mike Schmidt? Victory. Victory.

Yeah. Yeah. So you did this for 10 years, man. Mm-hmm. And then decided, fuck this, I'm going to be a comic? Yeah. Well, I was doing that on the the side but at one point i was like they're never gonna listen to this so i guess i'm just gonna go tell jokes wow so you tried to

enact some sort of reform or you tried to at least say what the fuck's going on yeah but you know they don't listen so and do you bring any of this up in your act no no because it's really depressing yeah yeah right like it's you know to figure out a way to make that funny yeah yeah because like it's it's happening right now like right now somebody since we started talking is getting something onto a computer record because we used to not have computer records and so now somebody's getting a computer record that they shoplifted so there goes all their entry-level employment fucking for I don't know three four years good luck with that have fun filing for disability that that just happened to somebody else and it's gonna happen again in a couple more minutes

like it's just it's it's not the sensational cases that get you. It's the grinding. It's the every single guy gets a little more than some, you know, it's just a gradual creep. Like Mothers Against Drunk Driving keeps bringing the law, like the legal limit for alcohol down and down and down, but they don't change the study that they have the cops point to to say why the field sobriety tests work so like in the 70s the horizontal gaze nystagmus test would say that uh horizontal gaze nystagmus sets in prior to 45 degrees only if you're above a 0.2 or but then they redid the study and now it was 0.15 and then they read what is explain what that means So if if you've ever seen somebody get pulled over by an officer

Mm-hmm And then the officer has a bright light and they're on the side of the road as a bunch of cars go past like fucking strobe Lights, right? So they'll have you look at a pen right and then they'll trace it like this and so at a pen right and then they'll trace it like this and so prior to 45 degrees your eyes should track very smoothly if i move it quickly if i move it slowly there might be a little bit of stutter but i'm supposed to do the test quickly and then if i put it there and hold it i look for a little bit of aggravated nystagmus and so the National Highway Traffic and Safety Authority or National Highway Traffic Safety Board put together this one and then the one leg stand and the walk and turn test. And they say that you can tell if somebody's drunk if they fail these tests. The tests aren't accurate at all. And they were originally picked in the 70s when the limit was higher. And they would say that

these tests will only detect somebody above 0.20 and then they when they changed the legal limit they didn't change the test so remember in the 70s your eyes weren't going to quiver over here unless you're above 0.2 but now in the 80s they're telling cops that the eyes will quiver above 0.10. And now here in the 2000s, they're telling cops that the eyes will quiver at that point above 0.08. So they've changed the data to correspond with the new laws. They didn't change the data even. They just said that it still works, even though the point of that test was to pick people up above two point you know above right a much higher limit above they're looking for people at 0.15 so not not the data but the the number that they use to determine whether or not you're you're drunk or sober how do they know the method right no it's

what i'm saying is it's not a real test right but they lowered the limit right like the limit used to be 2.0 yep and now what is it now 1.66? Now it's 0.08. 0.08, sorry. What did they use to determine? I mean, if that was what was originally established, that you had to do this, the field sobriety test would indicate that someone was about, once the limit got lowered, how do they keep that same test? Like, what do they use to? They just didn't care. But what do they say in the booklet?

They just changed the booklet. So they just say, just changed the number? Yeah. You could see it at.08 with no data to back it up at all? My dad's got the fucking manual from the 70s. He's got the manual from the 80s. He's got the manual from the 90s. He's got the manual from today.

That seems so weird. No, they don't even care. But you assume, though, right, wouldn't you, that if someone fails that test, that test would indicate they're 2.0. Well, they'll definitely 0.8 then. So really, they don't have to change it. But scientifically, they probably should establish when. But they're using it for proof that somebody is a 0.08. Right.

When it's only effective to prove that they're 0.15 or above, for example. Yeah. So this test is designed for people at 0.15 to fail and they're saying people at 0.08 are failing it the thing is the so they just await i mean when when they test them with a breathalyzer so they just barely make it illegal but they still fail this field sobriety test is that what you're saying yeah yeah so it's subjective the yeah the tests are subjective and we pretend that what you know, like one leg stand with seven potential cues is somehow an effective way of looking at somebody and telling if they're drunk. It's fucking eyeballing them.

Just look at them. What if somebody passes a test? Like, what if you pull them over, they pass a test, but then they don't want to take any further test? Like, look, I passed your test. I did all your shit. I don't want to take any breathalyzer. In most of the states of the union, you're required to give a sample of your blood, breath, or urine. And if you don't, then they'll charge you with refusal. That's a fourth amendment,

fifth amendment violation, if ever there was one. But because the police win most of their arguments, it's mostly okay. Why is it a violation? Well, because you can't be forced to give evidence against yourself. And they want you to give evidence from you that they'll use to convict you. And they want to do that at the scene of the crime with no legal representation. It's not like you have your lawyer there and you say, hey, Mr. Lawyer. Yeah, they're saying we could only prove that you drove drunk if you give us your fucking blood. So now give us your blood So they used to be dupe force and blood draws and doing that stuff without warrants and a couple years ago

The Supreme Court was like you guys need to get warrants for this stuff And but the thing is now they get warrants, but isn't it problematic that it takes a long time to get a warrant I mean, how long does it take to get a warrant? Like say if a guy gets pulled over you say all this dudes drunk Hey, man, give me some blood. No, I'm not going to give you any blood. All right, we've got to call the cops. Ten minutes. Ten minutes. You get a warrant. It can be faster. Really? Yeah. Telephonic. No, telephonic warrants are fine.

Rockford files. Yeah. No, like, some jurisdictions, warrants do take time, but other places, you can be issued a warrant over the telephone. But what if he gets to make a phone call and he calls Governor Clinton and Governor Clinton says, Hey, listen. You don't need him.

I know a guy who knows a guy. Why don't you just let him drive home? We could take the test in a little while. He's not prepared. We need to go over this paperwork first. But yeah, so those tests are bullshit. And they use them because really it's just the officer needs to be able to sit up there and say that you did some shit wrong. Okay, so let me say this. So if you are a criminal defense attorney, you get a guy who's on a drunk driving case. The cops busted him, but they busted him by forcing him to give blood. How do you defend that?

forcing him to give blood how do you defend that first you look at the stop so you find out how long they were following him and if how much uh good driving and how much bad driving they viewed so for that you would i mean if you want to do a good job let's say you're defending a very very rich person who has the money to pay for this. Right. Bill Gates, you're defending Bill Gates. So you're going to order the squad video, and then you're going to open records requests, the radio communications and the teletypes from the squad car to everyone else, because they might be saying something racist or they might be saying something. So you pull the teletypes and then you're going to want the conduct records of all the officers. And then you're going to want to find out if you can pursue any administrative appeals of a temporary suspension of the license. So you're going to do that because two reasons.

One, you don't want your client's license suspended. And two, you might also find some things because you might be able to get a couple of records and force the cops to show up and drop some paperwork off for you that you have in advance. Then you're going to look at the stop and you're going to file a motion saying that the stop was illegal because of X, Y, and Z. Then you'll argue about the bail conditions. Then you'll order, you'll wait about six to eight weeks for the results, for the blood test results to come back. Soon as they come back, or even before, you file a motion that you've been working on saying that the blood test results are problematic because they were illegally drawn, or the facility is not accredited, or the person who administered the test is not accredited,

or the machine has not been maintained properly. At the same time, you order the reports for the machine maintenance, because you'll find that when they do the blanks, sometimes they're not, when they run them through a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer or whatever system they're going to use, when they do these samples, I mean, these are guys with technical college degrees or bachelor's degrees that have taken a six to eight week course, and they might be pretty good at it, but there are still fuck ups. And so sometimes things come in and they're not sealed. Sometimes there's a problem with the vacutainer

that they use for the blood draw. And sometimes the sometimes the stuff that they put in the vacutainer in advance to keep the blood from coagulating is expired or has a problem with it.

And you have to check that out so if you have an extremely uh rich defendant everything from your fucking eye color is in question basically the every step of the way where anything happens you have a question about it so was the machine properly and who programmed these fucking machines can i see the code because if i can't see the code to the machine we can't say at all if this machine works if we don't know the code and for a lot of these devices the code is proprietary and they won't give you the code. So they won't allow you to know how some of the machines that they use to watch you work. So you can't, as an attorney or

as a defendant, you can't actually point to a problem and say, see, you didn't carry the one and you doubled my fucking result. Or, you know, like this shows that it was i'm patient 4863 this is for this they sometimes they won't give you those records or and so then you have a problem you hope actually that they don't give you shit because when they do give you shit it's proof that it's generally in working order but when shit comes late means there's a fucking problem and that's when you know you smell blood and you start to chase that down. You know, so like, and then and then the next point you do is you go and you try and settle the case and you think, here are the guidelines because most OWI is guideline offenses, most places because people get a first one, and then they get a second and a third and a fourth

and a fifth. Even though the penalties go up, it's crazy because the more OWIs people have, the less dangerous they tend to be during those OWIs. Like, sevens will hit parked cars all fucking day. But they don't kill people. Twos kill people.

First defense drunk drivers, they fucking kill people. So, So people just get better at drunk driving? Is that what you're saying? Absolutely. They do.

It's horrifying. But yeah, they do. Makes sense. Practice makes perfect. Yeah. yeah yeah with everything in life and they take certain roads and they drive slower they compensate for it they're not i mean they're used to being drunk they're alcoholics you know dude that was terrifying this this surgical preciseness to the way you broke down yeah the process of and what is the difference between a rich person and someone who gets an attorney assigned to them by the state?

Okay. You want to get, I mean, you want to get, like, pick a crime. Well, let's use the same crime. Okay. Someone who's drunk driving who is a poor guy who gets pulled over and you're handling him. Okay. And you can't do all those things you wanted to do.

No, you can't do those things. So what you have to do is you've got to do everything that you can do on that list. Because in 90% of those times, or maybe even 99% of the time, those avenues will be completely fruitless. Those won't get you shit. will be completely fruitless. Those won't get you shit. Because, you know, stops are routinely rubber-stamped,

warrants rubber-stamped, and the machines are generally agreed to be in working order. And in a lot of places, there are statutes meant to protect you from even being able to get this information. So, eh. But things that really do work are, like, bring their family to sentencing because

most people who are convicted of crimes have been convicted of a couple of crimes and nobody shows up for them anymore and nobody gives a shit about them and what's going to happen is they're going to go in they're going to do their time they're going to get out and nobody's going to give shit about them then they're going to do something else and then they're going to go back in. But if you've got a family there, the judge can see, well, somebody still cares about this asshole. Somebody still thinks there's some good in them. I bet there's some good in them. And I got a couple people who are willing to show up and watch him take his medicine. Watch him see that, watch him admit he fucked up and promise to try to be better. So these guys are kind of on our side. These guys are going to try and help this guy not come back here. And that will shorten your

sentence. If you have supportive people in your side of the room, that will shorten your sentence. Yeah, things that are open to rich people like you want, I mean, all almost all expert witnesses are whores. Like people, people would ask me like, people people would ask me like well how do you like how do you choose an expert and i'll be like i just i just ask everybody else what kind of expert they use and i'm like what if the expert says something you don't want them to say i'm like that does not happen and they're like do you tell the expert what to say no the expert knows if a prosecution or defense or plaintiff or defendant calls them they know which side you're on and miraculously every expert i've ever offered money to to give me their honest and completely unbiased opinion

has said i was right. What are the odds? Every single fucking one. You must really know how to pick quality attorneys. I guess. Or quality professionals. Quality experts. Quality experts. But yeah, what I'm saying is like,

they're just... They're whores. They're whores and they will say anything. And there's a business in being a whore. So like if you're looking for a guy who's a DNA expert or you're looking for a guy who's a chemical expert, or you're looking for a guy who's a chemical expert like you know the guy to call because other friends have used them on similar cases yep and and there are guys there i mean they're all whores there are some guys who

are solid because whores do tell the truth you know like whores do important work but they are whores and you should never forget that that's something i think republicans get when they argue about climate change that's why they don't listen to the fucking billion scientists on one side because they know like oh you can just buy a study they don't realize that these are the studies that weren't bought and that you should actually believe these but they just they know how it is because they've seen that happen over and over and over again. Like Monsanto buys studies and they bury studies and attorneys do the same thing. They hire an expert and miraculously the expert just agrees with them every fucking time. I don't know

how it works. I would expect that I would hire an expert sometime and they would say, you know, hire an expert sometime and they would say, you know, Schmidt, you're wrong. Uh, these fingerprints are a match, but never. No. Now, do you think that this is because, I mean, are you communicating with these guys beforehand? Like when you, when you hire an expert, do you have any, I never ever said anything to any of them about how I wanted them to say anything. And how much do you pay in these guys? Like say if you bring a guy who's a fingerprints guy. If you, okay. If you're public defender's office, you can pay no more than a grand or 1500 I think it is. And you got to pay it out of your own pocket. And then they'll reimburse you in like six months after the trial's done.

So you don't have experts functionally if you got money an expert can run you 15 grand and but it depends on the type of case if it's medical or if it's and state the state will fly like this is a beautiful thing if you throw piss on a guard do you know it's hard for them to tell that it's piss? But it's a felony in most jurisdictions to throw urine on security personnel at a prison. It's called gassing. But it costs extra money because there are actually very few experts who can say that this is urine that this person threw on him. Like the test for urine versus, it's just, it costs money to fly someone to say that this guy did throw piss on this guard. And here's a scientist who can say beyond a reasonable doubt, that was piss.

They really have to fly someone from Philadelphiailadelphia sometimes to wisconsin to say that was piss that's how fucked up our system is that to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was piss in a felony trial we need a scientist so no wonder they're fucking whores because that's the shit we put up like we make them privy or part of our little stupid disputes like that continuously, and it warps them just the same way it warps everyone else. Oof. God, God. What a bleak picture. Well, but the important thing to remember is most people are outside and having fun most of the time.

Right, most of the time. people are outside and having fun most of the time most of the time like but not important because what if something happens and you happen to be driving while black and all of a sudden you're in the same situation that you described right where you wind up getting extracted yeah from this beautiful outside world yeah well stuck in it that's something that we all have to do something about and if anybody's got ideas well i think talking about it is huge um i wasn't aware of it to the extent i mean obviously i have zero knowledge of what it's like in madison wisconsin other than the few times i've visited so hearing you describe it and especially zero knowledge of what it's like inside the criminal justice system but hearing you describe it it's uh

it's it's pretty disheartening it's's, it's, it's atrocious. It's scary. And it seems like inexcusable. It seems like if you're looking at the raw data, as far as like what happens to people, if they're black and what happens to people with their wife, their first offenders, it's garbage,

scary. And our best idea was teaching some children to garden. Ooh. I mean, yeah. You know, I was at, in Yellowstone recently,

and it was really beautiful, but one of the things that was freaking me out was that it was created by an act of Congress in 1872, and I was thinking, good Lord, like 1872, you know, I was alive in 1972. That's not that long ago. That's like fairly recently, and then I was thinking, that's only seven years after slavery was abolished. And then I looked it up, and it's 14 years before the creation of the gasoline-powered automobile.

I'm like, this is amazing. It's amazing how recent all this is. And I was talking with someone. byron bowers do you know byron hilarious stand-up comedian and byron was talking about um byron's black and he was talking about his grandmother remembering his great-grandmother telling her about the invention of the cotton gin. With Eli Whitney? Yeah. Shit. She was around for that.

That's fucked up. And he was talking about different relatives that he had, great-grandmothers and what have you, that were slaves. And it really hits home. Yeah. We go, that is so, like for us, we grow up. And when you're a little kid and you hear 1865, you go, wow, that was fucking forever ago. Yeah.

But as life goes on, the perspective sort of comes clearer and clearer into focus. And you realize, oh, my God, like that was a blink ago. Yeah. 1865 was essentially a cultural blink ago. And when you look at like the history of China or the history of England, I mean, this massive long history. And then the United States,

you know, 1865 is fucking nothing. Yeah. We're, I mean, yeah, we're a really young country where there's countries that are seven times as old as we are.

And I mean, from, Oh, I got it. I want to say one more thing about that criminal justice system. It's weird because, yeah, gas-powered automobile, electricity, telecommunications, space travel, end of slavery, and we still have fundamentally the same criminal justice system. Why, we didn't improve on it one bit. We added some, we added a couple of things, but it's not fundamentally different.

It was designed. It's the Dana law. It's fucking Vikings used to use it. And then it became the English common law. Like what should it be? What do you think? Like, is there an ideal system that someone has proposed?

No, no, I don't think there's an ideal system, but I do think that right now a country of 346 million people Is it that many? Yeah, there's more than 300 million people. Are you counting Mexicans? Yeah. They're people.

346 million? I think so. But is that the official? It's a shitload. God damn it. But how many illegal aliens are supposed to be here? Well, none are supposed to be here. I mean, allegedly. Okay. How many are allegedly here?

How many have been counted? How many are supposed to be here? By God's law, they can go wherever they want, Mike. You know, I think they... I don't have a problem with immigration. Sounds like you do. No. Putting you in your back heels.

I mean, I think we should let everybody in that wants to come. It's kind of the idea of the country. Not everyone all at once. Obviously, you don't live in Orange County. Yeah. Because you'd want to fucking die if more people moved there. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, Nebraska's got room.

It does. If you fly over the country, you realize there's a lot of spots. Yeah, there's a lot of spots, and we're kind of being dicks. Like, there's some people who are like, I don't want to live in Libya. Yeah. Come on. Fucking come over here. Well, President Trump's going to build

a nice wall and stop everything. See, what I think we should do is I think we should fucking put the feelers out, put the vibes out. And then if we see like a population that gets treated like shit, we should fucking just steal them. Just like, you know, there's countries where it's illegal to be homosexual but You know like we got room. We should just be like hey take all your almost We'll take all every single one usually they make a lot of money the old Discretionary income because most the time they don't have kids to go for the economy why the fuck not yeah No, come on over. What do you think is gonna happen if Trump becomes president?

And we have this social justice warrior president of Canada their prime minister is like he's there They're gonna explore the idea of gender-ne Canada, their prime minister, they're going to explore the idea of gender neutral identity cards. Like, okay, folks. You can't just like, what do you tell the cops? Mr. or Mrs., I'm Z, Z-H-E-E. What jail do we put in you?

Do we put you in the gender neutral jail? Or do you go in the men's? Do you have a dick, dude? Can I see? Okay, you're a guy. I mean, it's kind of juvenile that we, like, oh, you murdered somebody, but you have a penis. You murdered somebody,, you're a guy. I mean, it's kind of juvenile that we, like, oh, you murdered somebody, but you have a penis.

You murdered somebody, but you have a vagina. You have to go to separate facilities, murderers. Well, they should, because otherwise they'll fuck, and they'll create murderer babies. Well, I mean, they're not all going to fuck. And some of them, it's kind of like, well, why do we even care? Because they're going to fuck each other. Yeah, but dudes are going to fuck dudes, and that's the punishment for being in jail. If you lock people up with hot criminal girls, then you get a porno movie.

I mean, yeah. Cage cheat, you're right. Yeah, cage cheat. We can't have cage cheat. We can't have cage cheat. That's what it is. Okay. They're just going to bang each other.

All right. I agree with the policy, then. If it results in women in prison films, I can't argue with that. It's always the guard. It's always the female guard that gets seduced like that Tupac song. Oh, yeah. Remember?

When I get free. He was seducing the guard. I mean, you know, there was a guard. There was like some movie about a guard that had a relationship with some guy

who was a prisoner. This dude could apparently lie on his back without touching his penis he could make his dick erect and he could ejaculate but he had time to practice yeah but i mean that that's really impressive amazing what did this guy but see these urban myths man it's hard tell. There's no camera on this dude's dick. Right. I mean, yeah, if he could really do it, did he die in prison? I don't know. It's a good question. Because if you could do that and you didn't die in prison, somebody probably paid you

money to film it. All right, let me ask you this. When it's the subject of restitution, do you think a guy should get off with time served plus restitution if you can make dick porn in jail like say if that guy didn't do anything like too terrible maybe just robbed a bunch of liquor stores or something like that and all sudden he's in jail and he realizes that he's practiced by himself in his Zen room so long that he could get his dick hard and come all over himself people would pay money to see that yeah so if

he starts like his own I jizzizz on myself, website from jail. Yeah. Webcam service. Makes a lot of money. Yeah. Gives it to the victims. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's constructive.

I think it's helpful. I think he should start by, I think anyone who's interested in doing that, whatever correctional facility they're in, perhaps write to the judge that sentenced you and request that you do the same or just an opportunity. I have no doubt that people can do that because if someone can have a wet dream, that means their fantasy is allowing them to ejaculate. Yeah. So I think there's some people that have done some really amazing things with their mind, right?

Like there's people that practice Kundalini yoga and they get to some place where they can have some trance and they have psychedelic states. I'm not, I believe it. I'm not skeptical. I mean I'm not, I believe it. I'm not skeptical. I mean, I bet you could do it. Like, I bet that sounds like something where if you practiced, if you just waited, because there's dudes who jizz in their pants

when women walk up to them. Ooh. Like, this is just like a little bit more removed. Right. The fact that that dude did it for the guard, kapow, let her know what's up this is the kind of power I'm dealing with like on command

at salad bar but it must happen because that's what also happened up in upstate New York when those guys got free and those murders they tracked them to Canada the woman was supposed to let them out they escaped and the woman was supposed to meet them outside remember that that was the same situation homely lady

fairly handsome dude thought they were going to have a relationship them outside. Remember that? Yep. That was the same situation. Homely lady. Oh yeah. Yeah. Fairly handsome dude. Thought they were going to have a relationship. Yep. I, uh, when I first started visiting prisons for clients, uh, this guy who was a former, I think it was former secretary of the department of corrections. He was our criminal law professor, ran us through a whole bunch of shit we have to watch out for when we go into prison. And one of them was inmates trying to seduce you. Oh, shit. Yeah.

Even dudes? Yeah. Well, they got nothing going on. Right. Just try it. Yeah. No judgment. Yeah. And I mean, the way he ran it through us, like to us, was like a little crazy. He's like, yep, they're going to try to, uh,

they're going to try to, uh, sexually importune you. They're going to try to, uh, unzip their flies. Sexually importune? Yeah.

Ooh, I've never heard that word before. I've never heard anybody use that in a, in a verb. Cause he was saying that they would unzip their flies potentially and then take advantage of the fact that we didn't say anything about it the next time to call basically to get us to commit a minor offense so that we or break a little rule or lead us a little bit down the path and then next time they would try to take their dicks out okay so if you don't call him out on having his fly down,

it's an offense? No. No. But it's not like a crime. It's not like a rule violation. Okay. But if he's got a... Social. Yeah. It's a social offense. And they'll sit differently. Like if someone sits there with

their fly open, you know, and it's like this and their crotch is on display. Letting you know they got some dick for sale. Yeah. They're like, hey, by the way, there's some dick in here. And then next time there'll be more. Because there's a lot of sociopaths in prison. A lot.

Because for a lot of people, what it comes down to is the sentencing. Because they're guilty as shit. There's a lot of people, what it comes down to is the sentencing because they're guilty as shit. There's a lot of witnesses, you know, and they don't have they're not made of money. So they can't pay some expert to write a report saying that jail would hurt their feelings, which they fucking do if you have money. It comes down to a lot of being able to take ownership of what happened and what you did. It comes down to a lot of being able to take ownership of what happened and what you did. And a lot of sociopaths are in prison because they're too stupid to listen to how everybody else apologizes. So sociopaths will say something like, you know, I'm sorry that I played a part in all of this.

Or, you know, I'm not going to put myself in situations like this anymore your honor when they're being convicted of beating the shit out of somebody they'll say I'm not gonna put myself in situations like this sounds like they're taking ownership but put in a situation just means you're one small part of this fucking situation but I was in your fall multiple aggressors right loud noises and drinking. So it's, and to somebody that is making the apology, it sounds like it works, but to a room full of people that hear nothing but apologies all day, we go,

Oh, he's going to be back. And that's how, and the judges listened for that shit very intently. There's ways to fuck up an apology. And the only people who fuck up the apologies in that specific way are almost completely incapable of putting themselves in anybody else's shoes. And those types of people tend to do certain types of things where it's they're always out for themselves me me me Why does he get to do that? Why can't I do that like that shit like that?

Childish bullshit self-centered selfish right all but they're an adult. That's just what a sociopath is. It's not that impressive It's not like, you know fucking science of the lambs or some shit. It's just super selfish Yeah, we're inconsiderate of the rep ramifications of their actions. or some shit it's just super selfish super inconsiderate of the ramifications of their actions yeah and they're just and they they don't even know how to relate to the rest of us because they don't care they don't care to like we're just robots to you know in your experience dealing with so many of these different people and so many different criminals do you do you think it's a nature thing or a nurture thing nurture yeah it's nurture i mean there are some i mean some broken folks there's some some people are born evil it's just like some people are born

with bad kidneys right so some people are born like didn't they say that jeffrey dahmer wasn't he a good example or of a guy who allegedly had a pretty stable childhood with loving parents and became a serial killer yeah but but you don't know right uh yeah like they're gonna say they beat the shit out of them like they're gonna be like no no we did them the same way uh charles manson and ted bondy's moms did them yeah no they're not gonna say that but Yeah, I mean people who do that generally have kind of similar histories Well, if you think about the way a human being could vary the way we behave you could be like the most beautiful Generous kind caring person or you could be a brutal dictator in the Congo and chopping people's arms off And you you could be either one of those

and still be a human being. Yeah. So if you, if you think about that and you think about the conditions that you have to sort of adapt to, and if you're growing up in some hellacious condition and you adapted to that hellacious condition and it is, you are literally a product of society. Yeah. Now, when you come across people like that that because you're in the criminal defense attorney world and you have to represent these people Do you do you try to think like is there a way to fix this guy? I mean, do you put that in your head or do you just go and try to win? I try well when I get when I would get them to do the apologies because One of I mean the thing is like for a lot of these guys too many witnesses

too much of a record it's coming down to this fucking apology right it's coming down to our plan for what we're going to do next and talking with them and coming up with a reasonable plan about what they're going to do after jail or what they could do instead of jail and addressing like why would they they did something wrong okay Okay. Why was it wrong? Like, I would go through with my clients a lot of the times if I wasn't sure that they were getting it and I would be like, okay, so you're going to have to give an apology to the judge. You're going to have to tell them that what you did is wrong. You're going to have to tell them that, you know, that it was wrong. And you're gonna have to tell them, them you know why it was wrong. So why is it wrong to hit your girlfriend?

She doesn't want me to. Well, okay. All right. There's one. When you hit your girlfriend, what do the police have to do? They have to show up and they have to arrest me. Were you nice to them? No.

Do you think they like that? No. Do you think now would be the time to apologize for being a dick to them when they were just doing their jobs? Yeah. Okay. But now say it in a different way. Say it in a nice way. Oh, Jesus.

And then I made them say it in a nice, like. And you have to really coach them through this. And do you let them know, like, listen, your freedom may ride on whether or not you're believable. Yep Yep, and I'm most important performance. I would tell them like you're not gonna lie up there Everything you say is gonna be true. We just need to make You fucking recognize you just a couple minutes You got to recognize this situation because you can't lie out there. They hear too many lies They don't like lies just it's like George Michael and freedom like take a lie and make it true a lot of times

I would just quote George Michael. Yeah, I did that song freedom. Yeah, it's a good song It is a good song right yeah good on you for admitting that a lot of people they shy away from giving George Michael the props He deserves, but I would use like take these lies and make them true. I would use that on my clients Can you sing that? No, I'm terrible at singing. You can sing it. No, I can't. Take these lies and make them true. Somehow all we have to do.

There we go. That's a great goddamn song. You know what's the best? You can't hear it on YouTube, right? We'll get pulled, right? Yeah. Only we can hear it? Well, listen.

If you see the video, that's the best part about that song. That was one of those songs that was made by the video. Yeah. Because the song's great. He's not in it. But God damn, these girls are hot. Yeah. There's so much hotness.

Naomi Campbell, Christy Turlington. Some of those girls are still hanging in there. Yeah. Were they all naked when this came out? In my world. Yeah. Yeah, this is a tremendous video. Amazing what symmetry and bone structure does for the emotions.

Yeah. Beautiful full lips. Looking at pretty people is fucking great. It is. It's amazing. But what I do is i would i'd be like so they're not gonna let you out because you don't have a job right and you've never been in the community with more than this for more than this length of time without doing this and i'd

be like well we can't lie to them and tell them like I would make a list of shit that I wish was true. And I'd be like, well, what are these things? Can I fucking just make true? Like, can I get this person to do these job applications? Yeah. Yeah. I could totally do that. Like if I could bail him out for like, if I can get him to make his bail, if I can get his bail low enough, and then I can get him to submit job applications every single week. It was a lie when I came up with it a couple minutes ago. But in six months, when this case finally goes in front of the judge, he'll probably have a job and they would like you just think about some shit you want to be true, figure out how to make it true. And, you know, like maybe he's got to have his kids back or maybe he's out to have a better relationship with his kids, which means you start

writing the fucking letters now. Cause in six months, have them show up like just cause the thing is like, yeah, it's a lie. If you have no intention of making it true. And we wouldn't say in advance, I would just be like, well, you know. So do you feel like you're coaching these guys not just through their trial, but maybe through their understanding of the implications of their crime as well? Like, are you in some way sort of educating them into, you know, because if they have to be honest about it, they have to kind of be maybe educated about the impact of their choices. Yeah. Yeah, I would. I mean, to the extent that I thought it was appropriate, like, because I'm in a position of power, you know, emotional abuse is not proper, you know, like, like, like abusing them, like insulting them or something. Yeah. Like insulting

them. And there's people where you would completely want to insult them. It's just not appropriate because they're such terrible monsters. But what do you do if you're in one of those situations? Yeah. I've had some guys that make my skin crawl. And, like, I've sat next to people who've, you know, done horrible things to people where they don't make my skin crawl and yet these other people are just so far beyond them in terms of like we don't like we should probably lock you up forever

and you can't do anything because you sort of have a mandate you have to win I have to make them beat me do you drink after work would you like no no because if you do, you didn't. Nope. Cause, uh, if you do,

then you don't stop. Oh, there were, there's a bunch of bars right by that courthouse, but I can only imagine you would just want to escape. Yeah. Well, you just want to booze it up. Well, cause the thing is as a defense attorney, you're going to get ass handed to you so many fucking times that if I drank one time for every time I didn't like what a judge decided, I would have been dead seven years ago. Did you get high?

No. You didn't do nothing? No. Just went home and ate pot pies and dealt with it? Yep. Fuck, man. I went out on the weekends.

And you did stand-up? Yep. And you started doing stand-up while you were an attorney? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've never seen you stand-up, dude, but you're a smart guy, so I can't imagine you would suck. I'm terrible.

Are you? No. Okay, yeah, I didn't think you would. And talking at the comedy store was very fun, so I'm glad we did this, man. We just did two and a half hours of a breakdown of the criminal justice system here. Fun. And especially the criminal justice system there and outside of madison wisconsin and so um how long you been doing stand-up now uh seven years i think

enjoying it yeah yeah it's super fun and what brought you to the store uh well i was in wisconsin but i moved here in january of last. And honestly, I really like Pauly Shore. No, like I was a kid in the 80s. So when I would see Sam Kinison on TV and Pauly Shore on TV, and everybody on TV, like it always wound its way back to the store. Like Pauly Shore's first album is, I think, recorded at the comedy store, and you can hear Ron Jeremy and Gary Coleman in the background. Wow.

Like, it's nuts. And, like, Laugh Factory doesn't hire comics, you know, and improv is it. Like, the store is kind of an icon, and I worked in comedy clubs before, so I was like, hey. Also, the reality of it is it is like the potluck is so hard to get on uh that Monday night potluck and I had signed up every single Monday for six months and I hadn't gotten on once and then uh they they put out a list saying they're gonna do auditions for the new door guys so I signed up for it so that I could get on the potluck.

But then it just went really well. Wow. Six months. That's crazy. I just wanted to get up on the potluck and signing up for the audition for the job was the only way to do it. Yeah, you definitely seem overqualified to be a door guy. Yeah, I like the door guys. It's a great gig.

Yeah. But I'm saying, how old are you? 36. Yeah, see, most door guys are like 21, 22. They're getting older now. Are they? Yep. Guam is in his 40s.

Hormuz is 56 by the look of them. He fucking looks 56. It is a special place though, isn't it? I mean, and you are, you've been an employee there during the golden age. I think there's the golden age. Like the other night, it was Joey Diaz, Bill Burr,

Dom Herrera, Chris D'Elia, me, and someone else on the show. Someone else. Oh, was it Ali Wong? She was on another one. It was a different show, someone else. Oh, was it Ali Wong? She was on another one. It was a different show, but it was just, it was insanity.

Yeah. I was like sitting back watching all these people and I was like, this is the crazy, I've never seen a lineup. Oh, Ron White was the other one. I'm like, I've never seen a lineup like this.

This isn't, this lineup is, it's insane. Yeah. Just murderers row. Oh, well, Joey D,

I don't want to say what the bit is about, but he's got this new bit he's doing now it's just it's just like in all the years that i've been seeing stand-up comedy and doing it i just never have seen a club like this or it's on fire right now yeah every night is sold out yeah crowds are insane yeah it's really weird man it's really weird man. It's really weird. Here's another one. This is from Thursday. Yeah, okay, Bobby Lee Tom Papa Bobby Lee Eliza Chris Talia me jazz on neck Ron white Andrew Santino Joey Diaz Donnell Rawlings Jesus Christ then on and on and on Fuck yeah

Jimmy Schubert's gonna go. Why didn't you say me Nick? Yousef is gonna go. Why didn't you say me Dave Taylor? I know you wouldn't say me I could really read the whole list but it's an amazing lineup of known and unknown yeah you know i mean the guy in the second to last spot created one of the shows on nbc that's going into its third season and the guy who's going dead last had a movie on comedy central like it's yeah that's don barris though he's an icon it's a different situation like he belongs in that late, late spot. Well, what I'm saying is, like, that's how fucking packed the lineup is. It's insane.

Yeah, but it's not just that. It's also the vibe because of the fact that the store hires all comedians like yourself and like all these other ones that work there. It's like everybody is one of us, you know, and many guys have gone from being in the position of being a doorman or work in the cover booth or what have you to being like Ari Shaffir perfect example Duncan Trussell perfect example you know they've gone on during the time that I've known them went from start now to being like super headliners on the road like yeah it's fascinating there's no clubs like that

where the employees become the the star attraction yeah yeah it's yeah it's the only one it's the only club that has like a true farm system right yeah especially in the fact that that farm system exists in hollywood and granted it's not it's not that easy to get into as you can attest it took six months yeah of nose to fucking the lineup is just there's just too many people that want to become comics now Mm-hmm isn't it was not like that before by the way no I know When I get up every week before yeah, we're close to it when I started in Madison in 2000-whatever

there was like eight people eight comics and then When I left there's 60 eight comics. And then when I left, there's 60 that would sign up for the funniest comedian in Madison every single year. Whoa. So yeah, it's booming.

And I mean, it's booming in quality as well. Yeah. Because there's an aspect of storm and drawing. Like there's only so many spots. So these people have to be better. Yeah. Like these 60 like

you start now you have no hope right you are the best and why not try to be the best why not try to fucking smoke that shit like crush it for three minutes like why half-ass it like you used to be able to well even if they didn't want a half-ass it. It's like It's not that they were half-assing it. It's like their standards got raised Yeah, like you see like roast battles perfect example that yeah, how many people? Crush at roast battle. Oh, yeah that you've never heard of before and you know, they're writing ridiculously funny jokes and crushing each other Yeah, and they're coming up and they're hungry. There's a lot of them.

Competition. Yeah. It's a fun time, man. Yeah. It's a really fun time. So listen, man, thanks for doing this. I appreciate you coming down on a beautiful 4th of July. Happy Independence Day, you fucks.

And you can catch Mike Schmidt on Twitter. Your Twitter handle is? The Shinola.Shinola. TheShinola. It's linked on my Twitter page as well with Mike's name. And if you see Mike at the Comedy Store, come by, say hi, motherfucker. Yeah. All right.

Thanks, everybody. Be back tomorrow. Brennan Schaub is going to be here. We're going to break down UFC 200, which is this weekend. Holla. All right. which is this weekend. Holla!