The Joe Rogan Experience - #822 - Chael Sonnen

Episode Date: July 11, 2016

Chael Sonnen is a retired mixed martial artist who last competed in the light heavyweight division of the UFC. He also hosts his own podcast called "You're Welcome with Chael Sonnen" available on Spotify.

Chael Sonnen, non-coffee enthusiast. Coffee non-enthusiast? Well, I drink it every day, and I like coffee, but I've got to doctor it a little bit. You know, I've got Coffee Mates and the Hazelnuts, and I've got to do all that stuff. Do you use this jazz? Stevia? No, but may I? Stevia's good, yeah, please. It's stronger than sugar, so don't put it in like you would do sugar, but it's completely natural, available everywhere, all sorts of health food stores and Whole Foods carries it.

It's just a plant-based sweetener. Not sugar, not bad for you. Doesn't give you the diabetes. Doesn't fuck with you like aspartame does. Some people don't like the taste of it, but I like it. And the fact that I can get away with it, where I can drink it it and I know there's no sugar at all, I like it a lot. Are they a sponsor? Are we doing a plug right now?

No, it's just a plan. So if I don't like it, I can say, I don't know about this stuff. Say it sucks. We don't even sell it. I'm a fan of it. So here's my theory on coffee. And I think this is true. If coffee wasn't around and I discovered it, and I sat you and Jamie down, and I slid

a cup across the table and go, try this, guys. I want $50,000 from both of you. I'm going to build this coffee empire. Taste this. You go, you're out of your mind. You wouldn't give me a dollar. And I go, no, no, no. Not only am I going to sell this for a profit, I'm going to put sprinkles in it.

I'm going to put it in a fancy cup. I'm going to mix whipped cream on top and sell it at a 300% profit. You could just get out. I'll tell you, well, maybe, I mean, a very small niche market, maybe. I mean, it's not like it's going to be everywhere. It's not bad, right?

Yeah. Stevia's good. It's not bad. It's got like a little bit of a bitterness to it. It doesn't taste as good as sugar, but for me, it's a good compromise knowing that there's nothing negative about it. So we're going. This is how you start your show. I like this. No big introduction. You

just turn it on. It's not necessary. You're the man. No one else could pull that off. They really couldn't. Everybody could. They just needed to do it. If you just didn't worry, if everybody just didn't worry, they would just do it this way. I suppose you're right. So whatever will we talk about today? I don't know.

Is there anything to talk about? Is there anything going on? No. I mean, it just seems like it's just nothing happening. It's just an average Monday with a couple of coffee drinkers here. We're all trying to figure out if they're going to sell or not. Yeah. Right?

And I'm on the other side of the fence from a lot of the reports. I'm going, God, I hope so. What a cool thing. I mean, they can sell the work they put in, the risk, they built this industry. Isn't that the ultimate thing you want to do with a business? Day one when you sit down to start a business, you want to create something so cool somebody else wants to buy it. Right. So I'm on the other side of the fence.

All these reports were coming out like this was going to be earth-shattering news. I'm going, this is going to be great. This is, you know, if you like them, if they've done something for you and you're cheering for them, then cheer that this goes through. Particularly if you retain Dana. And that was the other part of the report, was that Dana was going to stay on. Well, that's relevant. There's not another guy alive that can run that. And that's not some nice statement to Dana.

Dana, it's just the truth. Like, you can't go to a library and check out a book on fight promotion. You can't go to any college and major in fight promotion. You either know it or you don't. Yeah, it's difficult. And it requires all day. Dana's working all day. For people who don't know, I'll call him at one o'clock in the morning and he just got off the phone and he's doing deals and he's making things happen and he's trying to, and he's obsessed with it. I mean, that guy really does love the business of putting together fights. We'll talk randomly just in the middle of nowhere about fights for hours.

He just loves to talk fights. He really is a big fan and obsessed and not burnt out yet, which is amazing. Because the amount of hours that guy puts in, and obviously he's making a shitload of fucking money, but it's still the amount of hours that he puts in you would think you would be cooked by now yeah you would and i know what you mean 1 a.m is a good time to get a hold of him i was in brazil he called and woke me up i was doing the ultimate fighter he woke me it was 4 a.m and i grabbed the phone he was talking business right away and i just said dana i got i'm not here right whatever i agree to right now i get a pass because if you give him your word it's that's

it right right whatever i agree to does not i'm out of it it's if you give him your word, that's it, right? Whatever I agree to, I'm out of it. It's 4 a.m. And he goes, oh, man, it's 4 a.m.? And I said, yeah. And he goes, dude, I thought it was only 2. I'm really sorry for calling. But he was serious. He was serious.

And so it's like, okay, I get it, man. If you're working, I'm working. And it was the office line. It wasn't his cell line. He was at the office. And I'm going, okay, well, look, if you're going to work, then I got to do it. What's 4 a.m. in Brazil? What time is that in America?

That's got to be 10. They're not that far ahead. They're four or six hours. I was in Sao Paulo. Yeah. So it was still, you know, he's in there grinding. That was a ballsy move of you to do the ultimate fighter in Brazil after you had talked mad shit about virtually every legend

that ever came out of Brazil. Yeah, and to understand, thank you for saying that, but it's also relevant, Joe, to understand how big MMA is over there. You get away with that here, and there's going to be some pockets that know exactly who you are,

but it's going to be just that, pockets. In Brazil, it's the number two sport behind soccer. Everybody knows. And I had armed security. We went everywhere in bulletproof cars. And one night, the guns came out. And whatever bravado you think you have or you think you will have, when the guns come out, you find out it's not true.

You're scared. What happened? This is an actual move. There's a name for this, and it's very common in Brazil, but we were going in traffic, and a guy cut in front of us, and then what they like to do is cut in front of you, slow down, and then you get boxed in, and they jump out and rob you. So when the guy swerved over, we were in three lanes traffic, there was nobody else on the road. So when the guy cut in front of us, security knew what was going on. They pulled their gun out. My wife was in the back and she was sleeping. She was laying

down. She had her feet across me. And I woke her up and I said, he got his gun. And there was an exit right up and the guy swerved over as quick as he cut in front of us, took the exit, and was gone. Nothing happened at all. But in that moment, you find out when the guns come out, whatever macho-ness you think you're going to have in that situation, you don't have. Were you thinking, like, why did I talk all that shit? I'm just saying, yeah. And I don't think it had – they had no way to know I was in the car. I mean, I think they were just getting ready, or at least the security thought they were

just getting ready to rob us, you know, but yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. You know, that's true. It's like, hey, can nobody here take a joke? Am I the only one that can take a joke? But it ended up being a great time. It ended up being a really great time.

The Ultimate Fighter just is in general. I had the opportunity to do two of them. But you build lifelong relationships. You stay friends with those guys. You watch them being vulnerable. You watch them putting their whole life, everything into it. These guys leaving their families. The first Ultimate Fighter I did, we had two holidays. I'm counting

Halloween as one. I realize that isn't a holiday, but if you have kids, that's a big day. These guys leave their kids. They don't get to see them dress up. And then we had Thanksgiving. They don't even get to call home. One guy had the birth of his first child. He did not get to call and check on his wife. I mean, it's a big deal what goes on, and they're very strict.

I don't know why they are, Joe. I realize that for reality TV, that turmoil is to build something, but I'm kind of looking at it going, you know what? Let's do this little nine to five deal. Send them home. Give them their cell phones. Let these guys just be regular guys. It's hard enough.

Well, the problem is people talk too much. They tell too many secrets. They explain what's going on. They talk to press. They give inside scoops that will only be revealed. I promise you this won't be revealed until the show goes to air. There's a lot of fuckery that goes on with people that are on reality shows. That's what they're trying to avoid.

That's a funny word. Fuckery is one of my favorite words. It's a great word. Yeah, there's truth to that. But your appearance on The Ultimate Fighter in Brazil with Vanderlei, too, it sort of changed. Vanderlei's public opinion right now is very high. People like him again.

And one of the reasons why they like him is because he got fucked over by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Hardcore. They banned him for life for missing a drug test, which I just think is fucking tyranny. I think that's straight bullshit. I think that is a fucking horrible miscarriage of justice. If you think the guy was doing something, then you fine him and you ban him for the amount of time that you need to based on if he was guilty. That's it. You don't get to do life. That's fucking crazy. To be so callous, to show that you are a governing body and that you

are taking care of the future of these athletes and supposedly protecting them from other athletes that are cheating or from whatever other nonsense, whatever other illegal activity might be going on. And to take that position of power and to flagrantly abuse it in that way where you're openly showing them that you don't give a fuck about them. You don't care about their career. You don't care that it's the only way they have to make a living. You're just going to ban them for life because they missed a drug test. So let me give you another side to this too. Vandele never told his side.

Vandele got pissed and he yelled and he went to, he did all of these things, but he never just sat down and told his side calmly. So here's Vandele's side. And when you hear this, you're going to side with Vandele. Here's what happened. I was the first guy ever tested in this random out of competition testing. So none of us knew what it was. And you have to take that time into perspective because now guys understand, look, you get a knock on the door, you must comply. But I was the first

one ever tested. We'd never heard of this. A guy shows up. Vandal was to be the second one tested, but didn't test. In hindsight, I shouldn't have tested. I'm not even sure they were within their rights. And this is relevant. They show up, the guy has no ID, absolutely no identification of who he is. I think that's a problem to start with. It's a huge problem. That's a huge problem.

He then wants to take me into a back room, which ended up being a janitor's closet, not sanitary, a back room, which ended up being a janitor's closet, not sanitary, a back room at the MGM Grand. He takes me in there where I must de-robe and present to him my penis, because he watches. Now, that's a very private thing. No ID. He wants to see your dick. Yeah.

Look, I understand now, and I think a lot more of us do, too, that you have to get naked and do this. You've got whizs and all these weird things going on. At that time, though, that's a weird thing now we're in the back of the the mgm grand in a dirty closet and i'm presenting to a stranger who refuses not only doesn't offer id refused to give id and i tried to take a picture of the son of a bitch and he told me i could not do that why i backed down and didn't take i don't know i just accepted his authority but in hindsight,

Why didn't you call me? Yeah, exactly. I should have. But I was caught off guard. This had never been done before. And I'm kind of just going along, but I am caught off guard by this. He then wants to stick a needle into your vein and draw blood. I'm in a back unsanitary room. Anything I've ever learned in school, you don't do things with intravenous needles. You don't take, this guy has no idea. He's not in a lab coat. Doesn't look the part at all.

So now I presented myself naked to him and now he's got a needle in my vein and I'm signing paperwork that I haven't had time to read. So when he goes, now understand I speak English. We at least speak the same language. Also take into consideration the kind of guy, in fairness, the perfectly nice guy trying to feed his family. But in fairness, what kind of person says, I want to go around and collect people's pee? It's an interesting kind of guy.

So I'm with an interesting character to start with. Now I'm naked. Now he's poking me with needles in a dirty back room at the MGM Grand. He leaves there and goes to test Vandele. Well, when you take everything I said into consideration, nobody knew about random testing, nobody knew about Asada, nobody knew anything about this out of competition. So for Vandele to go, hey, I don't know who you are, you're not presenting ID, I don't fully understand you, that's fair. And Vandele talked to him and said, you want me to sign a contract, get my attorney

on the phone, show me what this thing says. You know, he's kind of going through the... And the way the story was told is that Vandeley just turned and ran. Well, that wasn't true. He stood his ground and talked to this guy for a while. He said, get on the phone with an attorney, prove to me who you are. He did all of these things. And then finally said, look, I got to get to a press conference.

I'm leaving. Got in his car and drove right to the MGM for the press conference. Now, I didn't have this backstory at the press conference, but that's what Vandeley did. So when the story came out that he turned and bolted out the back, that's not true. He stood and talked to the guy. He tried to reason with him. Vandeley's never told calmly his side of the story,

and that's his side. And that makes a lot of sense. Even in today's standards, that makes sense. But back then, when no one knew that drug testers could be showing up, and once they showed up, that you needed to present yourself naked, that you needed to accept that they were going to draw blood. Yeah, man.

Vandalee had the right to say, no, call my attorney. I don't know what's going on here. And the guy wouldn't show ID. That's relevant. It's very relevant. And they banned him for life. It's crazy. Come on.

No, the way you describe it, I didn't know it was that way. Yeah. I thought they showed up. Vandalee's never told it. Wow. All he's done is yell. And I've always thought, describe it. I didn't know it was that way. Yeah All he's done is yell and I've always thought now wait Vandalee timeout. You've actually got a really good side here Yeah, come and tell it now under today's standards. It's a little bit different Because we know what's going on and we know this no, but we don't know that some crazy internet troll can't pretend He's a USADA guy show up up, drag you into a bathroom, and take a picture of your dick. Exactly.

And won't let you, won't document who he is, won't let you just take a simple picture of him. Well, that's insane that they don't have to show ID. I mean, that's tyranny right there. Yeah. There has to be some sort of due process, and the athletes are already in a disadvantageous position in the first place. I mean, they can be fired.

They mean this random thing that just shows up, which I don't know what kind of constitutionality or what kind of legality is involved in just randomly testing someone's bodily fluids. I mean, I guess you sign a contract agreeing to that, but boy, that feels shaky. It feels like that can be disputed. And to your point, you now do sign a contract and you agree to go into this pool. But back then, we did not. I was the first guy. Vandalay was the second guy.

We both ended up with suspensions. But it was different. It's like, well, hey, wait. If you're going to do this, you've got to tell us or you've got to tell me right on the spot. But you've got to at least prove who you are. And I would imagine the women must have women testers come out to watch them, but I don't know that for sure. You know, you hear this thing about these TSA pat-downs and the women feeling violated.

We haven't heard any women say that yet. But at some point, you know, I just think there's a fine line there. They might have to be a little bit careful. Well, Vandeley had his lifelong suspension thrown out. Right. So now he's still in limbo, though, because they haven't decided how long he gets suspended. And what they've done is, and by the way,

how many years ago was this, when this took place? Three. Three years ago. So the man has not been able to earn a living in three years doing what he does best, which is fight. And he is, he's a legend. I mean, if you're going to have a mixed martial arts arts Hall of Fame and you don't include Vandelay Silva You got a bullshit mixed martial arts Hall of Fame. I mean you're talking about a guy who was the pride champion for a long time

You know had incredible fights legendary fights and he's beloved My point was when you and him went at it on the ultimate fighter his fucking popularity crashed because you made him look foolish he looked silly he wanted to start a fight with you he was trying to intimidate you and it wasn't working you were like please don't touch me please don't touch me and then finally you wind up taking him down and just like jesus christ like what the fuck are we doing here yeah it was it was really weird and uh you know trying to explain that to vandeley on the set what was a battle too and and vandeley walked out on the very first day he demanded an apology he said yeah he comes in front of everybody cameras are rolling we're about to pick teams so he's got all the guys there and his way of taking the moral high

ground was to demand i apologize and if i don't then he quits like, Vandele, why did you put yourself in that position? I'm not going to apologize, but why would you say you're going to quit? Now you have to quit. Now you have to walk out. So he does. When I call his, he walks off the set. Cameras stop everything. They put us in the back, and I'm telling the producers,

I'm not going to come out and apologize. Call Vitor. Vitor will come out and do it. We'll have Vitor on a plane. That's how we're going to come out and apologize. Call Vitor. Vitor will come out and do it. We'll have Vitor on a plane. That's how we're going to solve this. No, we can't call Vitor. We got to work this out with Vandale.

Could you please apologize? I said, look, I want the show to go forward. But this is the storyline. The storyline is the bad guy has come to Brazil. Vandale gets to be the white knight on the horse. Let's continue the script. So I had to talk to Vandale in a private room. And I had explained that to him. Like, Vandale, I get what you're doing here. And you're trying to be the good guy on the horse. Let's continue the script. So I had to talk to Vandele in a private room and I had explained that to him like, Vandele, I get what you're doing here and you're trying to be the good guy, but guess what? You are. Just let me go do what I do. Okay. You will come off as the knight in shining armor. And I'm okay with that. You're not okay being the bad guy.

I am. You go do you. Let me do me. The script's already out there. Okay. That's why we have this job. And I couldn't reason with him, Joe he would not understand it and he thought he's saying oh you know i on and on and on and uh you know i said i and i broke it down to brazil yeah he was doing that i was breaking it down and he's telling me how i'm doing everything wrong and and my sportsmanship's off and and my promotions but and i said Vanley stop I said George St. Pierre left Brock Lesnar I'm the guy I'm the highest paid guy in the UFC right now I'm not the guy you tell how to promote I'm the guy you cop and I was just trying to level with him I'm the guy you copy that's the reason that that all these things are happening and uh he he agreed with me on that he

goes I understand that but I don't like how you did that. I said, great, then here's what we're going to do. We're going to do this show. I'm going to continue to be the bad guy, and then we're going to fight. And if you're so sure you're going to win, I mean, this is your moment. He was raining on me for the Anderson thing. I said, Vanity, did you see how that fight worked out? I took my punishment, man.

I had to eat it all. It's an embarrassing thing, but I did it. That's my payback for that. You and I are on in a separate deal you're trying to insert yourself in an anderson fight anderson already took care of that matter okay he handled his but but now you got to handle yours and it was just a weird thing and we just we just couldn't we just couldn't come around well you are an interesting guy to get into these altercations with because you're very logical and because you can say a bunch of crazy shit and not take it personal. And I just don't think that he has that kind of mentality.

His mind is, today we fight to death. That's a good impression, by the way. But that's him. I mean, he just wants to throw down. And so he expected you to butt heads with him. And you're like, hey, man, come on. We're here to make some money.

We're on TV. We're going to promote this. No, no, no, no Brazil insult You know bad guy and it just there was no fucking way He was I mean He just came into this with this idea that he was gonna go shoot the buck style Then he was gonna get in your face and get angry and maybe you guys would brawl on the set You know, but you just weren't having it. I wasn't having it. But I also understood this. It's like, Vandal, I want to be the bad guy and this is my brand and this is what I'm

doing. I'm the only guy on that side of the pool because I'm the only guy that's willing to be. So I'm the biggest heel in the business right now. And I know this. If I come into your country by myself and not speak in the language and you team up, you gang, you team up on me, I become vulnerable. If they see me as vulnerable, they're going to like me.

I don't want to be liked. You're ruining everything. And I knew if push came to shove, they're going to take Vandal A's side. I'm going to come in short, but in the world of public opinion, I'm going to come out on top, which I've worked very hard. I don't want to be on that side. That's not where I'm trying to be. I'm down there, okay, and I'm all by myself, which means I'm ruling that part of the market.

And I was pleading with him when he was trying to get in a street fight. I remember even saying to him, please stop. Like, Vandal, please. I don't want to do this. Let's get a date and let's save it for the octagon. And he saw that as weakness. And as soon as he saw the weakness, he started picking on me. He's likeley if you pick on me i become likable i don't want that that's what this is all about okay i'm down there you guys be down here okay i'll be the nerd sitting at the

end of the pool by himself but that's that's still my end of the pool well you approach this in a very calculated way which is very rare for people when they're doing promotion for fights. You know, there's shit talking. There's, you know, people say I'm the best ever. They brag, they do all sorts of different things, but it's very rare that they purposely put themselves in one position and you did it on purpose. And you, you were the only guy that really had a vision. You're like, look, everybody out here is doing it it one way but there's a way to do it completely over the top i mean you obviously had skills to back it up as well but you were completely over the top and you cherish the role like when you took the microphone went

anderson silva you absolutely suck like the whole place starts cheering it's like yeah he's he's going straight pro wrestling right like you're the first guy to ever do that. Right. Yeah, let's cut a promo. I mean, it's entertainment. You know, we are in entertainment. And I firmly believe when one fight ends, the marketing for the next fight begins right then. Right that moment.

Well, people are paying attention the most. And I hear people tell you all the time, hey, who do you want to fight next? And you're giving them an opportunity. You're softballing them right down the middle. And they say, anybody. And their message, what they want to be relayed is, I'm not a bully. I'll take on anybody. I'll take on all comers.

I don't care. I get that. But that's not what people are hearing. If you say you don't care, how can you expect anybody else to? If you tell the whole world, I don't care who I'm fighting, well, then how in the hell can a fan care? How can they care about you? You've got to care. Whether it's a personal thing, whether it's a career move, whether it's a title, whatever it is, you have to care, and there has to be an answer.

If you don't care, I don't care. Nobody's ever gotten a job, Joe, by telling the guy interviewing them, I don't care. Well, then I can't hire you. I just can't hire you. Yeah, especially if there's someone who does care. Now, there's a – Imagine if when I tried to get on your podcast today, if you just said, especially if there's someone who does care. Now, there's a... Imagine if when I tried to get on your podcast today, if you just said, hey, are you free on Monday?

And I go, I don't care. You go, well, then I'll just call somebody else, Chael. I need a guy in the studio that wants to be here. Well, sure, you do. I want to be here. Well, I wouldn't worry about that with you. If you said, I don't care, I'd be like, good, Chael's in a weird mood. This is going to be a fun podcast.

Fair enough. But there's an odd psychology that goes along with fighting. And one of the things that happens to people when they're preparing for a fight, and you could speak to this, is that there's a sort of compulsion or a feeling that you would like to avoid thinking about the fight as much as possible. There's a natural sort of attraction to just putting it aside. It's like, let's just not think about this. Let's not think about this at all. Let's only focus on the task at hand, and when the task at hand is over, then we're

going to take a break. And when a fight is over and the relief has hit a guy, like to shift gears and go straight into promo mode, sometimes guys have done it, and they've done it, and it comes off artificial, and it comes off clunky, and it actually hurts them more than it helps them. Like, it seems like it takes a very specific type of personality to be able to pull that off correctly. I think that's fair.

Yeah, and I've seen some guys do it, and I appreciate it. Ben Rothwell comes to mind. Yeah. And Rothwell has something pocketed, and even in awkwardness, awkwardness or something to see there it's not a total miss it does come across as pocket inscripted and my only advice to rothwell is if you have a pocketed statement and you're not ready for the follow-up question drop the mic and walk away hit your bit and exit stage left and uh yes it's very it's very hard to say something you want to say. And when the follow-up question comes, you go back into being yourself.

That's very hard. Look, if you take a character, you finish the character until it's done. And if you're stuck, walk away. Yeah. Like Daniel Cormier, when I interviewed him after he beat Rumble Johnson. John Jones, get your shit together. That's it. Right.

It was perfect. It was great. It was perfect. So let's stay on Daniel. Daniel this week was in one of the, it was a very weird spot. So Daniel comes in. He's not just the good guy of MMA, Joe. He's the great guy.

Daniel, never will somebody meet that guy face-to-face. What a jerk. Never. Well, what's amazing is how much he gets booed. That's my point. But everybody hates him. You then have Jon Jones, who is a real life heel that wants to be loved. And for some reason, the crowd used to be against him.

And now they find out he's really, find out who he is. They love it. They're in. Why do they love him more? They love him more. Now that he keeps fucking up. Daniel Cormier was at a press conference with Jones, and Jones says, I've been sober for three months

and the crowd goes crazy. They then shoot the camera over to Daniel, the whole crowd starts, but he hasn't even said anything. They all start booing. Daniel takes the mic and goes, you guys are cheering that he's been sober for 90 days. I've been sober for 36 years. They boo him again. They hated it. So Daniel gets put in this weird spot.

He brings that momentum into this fight. He then becomes vulnerable. His heart's out there. He shows the world that he takes the high road. He says, I think that Jon Jones made a mistake. I've made mistakes before. He starts telling these personal stories. His heart's out.

He's in tears. Everybody loves him. All of a sudden, he goes into the fight. Anderson, boom. People love the appreciation. He stepped up. Great middleweight all these different things Daniel gets beat, or rather beats him crowd boos

and then Daniel tries to address the audience explaining himself it's like Daniel, couple of rules in politics first off, you steer into a problem if a crowd wants to boo, you don't ever ask them for their approval you take the mic, you hold your belt up high you thank them all for the percentage of their ticket

sales that you got. You tell them to shove their opinion up their ass, and you walk away. If you're explaining, you're losing. Do not explain yourself. Do not say, I had to do what I had to do. I'm tired of the misrepresentations and fighting. It comes all the way from the top. We hear that the fans want

two guys that are going to go out there and bang. Well, that's not true. The biggest draw in the history of the sport is George St. Pierre. He never went out there and banged with anybody. We need finishes. It is a very handsome man. He's very marketable. I will concede that. But the bottom line is, that's not necessarily what people want. The exact same

game plan that Cormier did is what Lesnar did five minutes later and everybody loved it. That's not what it's about. They decided they wanted to see Anderson win. They weren't upset that they were on the ground. They were upset they weren't on their feet because they knew that's where Anderson could knock him out, and they decided they were going to cheer

for Anderson. Cormier should have just told them to shove it up their ass, and they'd be stuck. Yeah, but that's not him. At all. But he wants to be liked. He wants to be liked, Joe. I understand that, but that's not the way to be liked.

The only way to be liked is him to beat the shit out of Jon Jones. I mean, that is the only way. Because right now he's got a title that, let's just be completely honest about what it is. It's not a title that he beat the champion to get. Sure. They had to take it away from the champion, and the public recognizes that. And while Jon Jones may be screwing up a lot, he may have all these problems outside of the octagon, inside the octagon, no one has been able to best him.

He's amazing. And because of that, because of that, people are on his side because people love winners. They just do. They love Mike Tyson when he was in his prime. And, you know, even when he came out of jail for alleged rape, he claims he never did it. I don't know what happened, obviously. But when he came out of jail, they were still rooting for him.

I mean, here's a guy who, if you have daughters, I have daughters. You know, if you have a girl and you hope, boy, the worst case scenario is my daughter finds herself in a position where a man wants to physically do something to her that she doesn't want. People didn't give a fuck. They were like, Mike Tyson's back. He's back and he's looking angry and he's ripped now. He's been doing prison workouts. Right.

There's something about a guy who's just a bad motherfucker that people love. Yeah. And there's a thing where they know that Daniel feels that. There's a thing where they know that Daniel knows that John is the guy who won the first fight, that John is the legitimate linear champion, that John is the undefeated fighter, and literally the only undefeated fighter at that level. I mean, he has one loss to Matt Hamill, which is a bullshit disqualification from a dumb fucking rule. Which you've said a million times. Nobody's more angry about that than you.

John Jones is not as frustrated about that loss as you are. It's madness. The law, the rule is madness. And it only exists. I talked to big John McCarthy about this extensively. Only exists because the commission was ignorant. Sure. They didn't understand that those brick breakers.

It's not that hard to break a fucking brick, man. It seems crazy, but it's really just not, especially when they're spread wide like that. But John Jones has that aura of invincibility about him. Now, if he fought Rumble Johnson, Rumble Johnson head kicked him into oblivion, and we see John with his toes curled, lying on his back snoring,

which absolutely can happen to any human, then the whole thing would change. And I think the walls would come crumbling down, and if John did a press conference and said he was 30 days sober, they would start booing him. They wouldn't give a fuck. I think that's fair. Yeah, you're right. America does love success.

Fans are frontrunners. They've got the right to be. But yeah, historically, that is how it worked. And when you talk about Rumble Johnson and Jon Jones, man, we've got to get that matchup done. They fucked up. I mean, the whole thing is fucked up and that hasn't happened. Because he's in real danger with Glover. Like, that air of invincibility was taken away from him by Daniel.

Daniel beat him and he broke him. Daniel beat him down, took his back, choked him. And you could see Rumble just having a real hard time with what was going on in that fight. He had given his all in that first round. He had hit Daniel with a bomb, like literally took him off of his feet, sent him flying across the octagon. But Daniel was tough as fuck. He survived. He gutted it out.

And then he imposed his superior wrestling and wound up winning. And then he imposed his superior wrestling and wound up winning. So we lost a lot there because that fight was supposed to be John Jones and Rumble Johnson. And then John Jones and Rumble Johnson would have been fucking epic. Yeah. And that would have been really interesting to see what happens when a guy who hits like Rumble connects with a guy like John. especially back then when we didn't know what would happen. We knew that Josh Koscheck had beaten him, that he had real hard time in the later rounds when he was competing at 170. But we also knew that there's no fucking way he should have been at 170. Even when he fought Vitor at 185, it was kind of the same thing. He came out like a bat out of hell and then faded.

And then we assumed that he also missed 185 against Vitor. By seven pounds. Yeah, I mean, he had a notorious problem with his weight. So we kind of attributed a lot of his failures to that. And we see him at heavyweight, beat the shit out of Arlovsky, break his jaw in the first round and just tool him for three. And we say, well, okay, Rumble at 205 is the fucking man. We missed that.

Missed that opportunity. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, when you bring up Rumble, Rashad, who trained with both Jon Jones and Rumble, Rashad, who trained with both Jon Jones and Rumble, says Rumble beats him. Now, Rumble only does have one problem.

He is a frontrunner and he does fade a little bit. But that's a big storm that he brings. You know, RDA fights that way. Amanda Nunes fights that way. Her own teammates were saying, look, if she gets in

the second, third round, I don't know about this, but she's going to bring a storm in that first round. Ooh, did she? And I don't think Misha can survive it. I talked to Dustin Poirier. He trains with Amanda

and he said that. He goes, well, if he gets in the later round, her percentage goes down. He said, but I think she's going to come out. She's going to put her foot on the gas, empty the tank in the first. I don't think Misha's going to be around. And he's right. Isn't that fascinating? Those fast twitch muscle fiber fighters, those ones who explode, the really dynamic ones.

There's a fucking give and a take to everything. Sure. And those ones, they just don't survive into the third, fourth, and fifth round with the same pep. So let's back up. I made a note here on that Jon Jones thing. Did you follow the whole Jon Jones drama? The most recent one. The only post-drama, yeah, was that he had a press conference the next day.

Did you follow that press conference at all? I saw the crying pictures. I think Jamie sent them to me. Alright. I went to that press conference, and there was a couple of takeaways. And this is all speculative, but this doesn't make John innocent at all. Well, John's guilty. They've got the sample

that's guilty, but his actions were not that of a guilty man. Historically, guilty guys go bury their head in the sand. They try to outrun this thing. They get with their legal teams. They show up at the hearing. They hope for the best. They get the worst, and they deal with it.

John faced the music 12 hours later. He came through the hotel. His whole life's pulling apart right now. I imagine he didn't even sleep that night. He comes to the hotel with the fans. He comes into the media. PR 101 says you read a script that was written for you and you exit the stage. Instead, he read no script. He took every question asked of him. And that's

just not what a guilty guy does. Now, I understand that he's guilty in terms of USADA, but what we care about is intent. Was he trying to get over on somebody? Was he trying to hide something? His actions would represent that he didn't. But here was the problem with the press conference, Joe. When you hold a press conference, you have one goal in mind, which is to win over the media and that they say nice things about you before you do go home and bury your head in the sand. Secondly, you want to break something. You want to get something out there to get ahead of the story.

That's the whole reason you show up at these things. The only card that he had to play is what did you test positive for? That was the only thing we didn't know. And they refused to reveal it. So that was a little bit weird. And where I was sitting, because I've been in John's spot, and here was the thing that happened with me. We're talking about John, this whole thing's going on with John, based on a test that took place on June 16th. The reason that was relevant, when I went through my thing, he tested positive for some estrogen blockers.

Those don't really have anything to do with anything. They don't help you. They're silly. I think you might have just revealed something. Yeah. He tested positive for two estrogen blockers. Yeah, but no one else knew that. There you go.

I'm revealing it. How dare you? Yeah. You broke personal information. That's what we're doing here though right wow but this is like this is like the only way that anybody could find that out is if you talked about it boom it's out there right and that we're doing here aren't we creating some news it's a big news day but listen but here's the relevance and let me tie myself into this when i went through this joke i had something silly in there in fact i had an estrogen block i had something silly in there and everybody forgave i was i was

going to be suspended but fox everything i was fine everybody looked at okay well you know we changed the rules and the test and everything was fine but what i had to live with what only i knew there was another test out there but the results hadn't come back yet and i didn't know what that test was going to show i know what it could have shown I know what it should have shown but I know what the other tests could have and should have as well so you're sitting there hoping how good is this damn test that's all you're thinking about well we you and I had a conversation you're the guy you were on stage and I'm blowing you up you're like hey man I'm doing a show can I call you

tomorrow tonight I will stay capital letters tonight I need to hear from you tonight. Yeah, I remember the exact words. He said, well, you know how we were wondering how stringent these new tests are? Turns out they're really good. Turns out it's a pretty good test. Turns out it's not like the old 1-800

requested test that costs $99. There's a reason this test is $40 plus grand. But the thing that I'm wondering, does John have another test out there? And if he does, it doesn't mean it's going to come back. But that was the same spot I was in. There was a shoe that could drop. For me, it did.

For him, is there another test out there? And if there's not, then Osada's got some explaining to do. If you're telling me a guy that's got a track record, that tested positive for cocaine, going to fight in the biggest fight of his career, and the last time you tested him was one month before the bout, then Osada's got some explaining to do. But there's more to the story. Now, do we hear it? Does he pass? Does he end up in the spotlight?

I don't know, but that's the piece that's still missing. Well, there's one aspect to his test, his positive test, that people are saying could possibly play a factor. And it's supplements that he could possibly have been taking something that like this is what happened to Tim Means. This is what happened to Romero, where they get a supplement and it says it has a bunch of stuff on it. Says you look through the ingredients. OK, creatine, B12. We're good. We're good.

But then when you run it through a lab, it turns out there's a bunch of other stuff in there too. And that's why it's so effective. And that's why it sells. So it is possible that that could be the case. We don't know yet because then if that's the case, then John has to give them all the supplements that he was taking. And then they have to go to a store, buy them independently, test them and verify that these ingredients were in not just the batch that he hands them, but also in other batches. So it's not like he doctored it to put some stuff in there. Sure.

But estrogen blockers are usually when people are getting off of steroids. Right. When you're coming off a cycle. Yeah, and it's a blocker. You know, men don't want estrogen anyway, but it's a blocker. It's not going to... So as far as that substance goes, then that's all he's going to have to live with. He's not going to have to live with speculation.

Explain how they work for someone who doesn't understand. All that an estrogen blocker will do, if you up your testosterone, then your estrogen just naturally ups. And guys don't want estrogen. So if you're a guy, you take a blocker that can block that, bring it to... You won't get the man boobs. There you go. I'm trying to think of the word.

Gastro... I can't even... Bitch tits is all that comes to mind. I can't think of the word I'm I'm we're close. I know I know I know got a mastica at any rate it can stop some of those things so That's the speculation the reason that that's on the list is they find that that's a way they can catch you after the fact Hey, if we missed you doing the cycle we can catch you here Well, it's not just that. The reason why they take it after the cycle is because you get hypogonadism. Your body stops producing testosterone

because you took exogenous testosterone. That's right. And so to restart it, they take this stuff, these estrogen blockers. That's right, yeah. I tested positive for an estrogen blocker, and it was that exact same thing. They banned testosterone. I went on something called HCcg which will return your testes back on and then you have to clomiphene which is by definition an estrogen blocker for that same thing but can

also help get your body going back on testosterone so they're banned john's got a problem again this comes back to the press conference he said i have not taken anything new that i have not taken my entire career. So somebody gave him a follow-up question. He quickly realized what he just said. And he goes, I do have a new supplement company. I have taken some new supplements. So he realized he put himself in one pool.

He needed to get out of it. The supplement company then, who dropped him immediately, came out with a press release and said, do not put this on us. We don't have anything to do with that, and we'll turn over any samples you want. So that's the downside to holding a press conference, is if there's anything the commission hates, it's when somebody isn't honest with them. Well, if there's anything USADA hates, and it's what Lance Armstrong found out, it's when you deny the scientific accuracy of their test.

That's the risk with holding a press conference. That's why most legal teams will tell you, go home, be quiet, write to remain silent, execute that, show up at your hearing date, get sworn in, say your piece, and then go on about your life. How does John not have a trusted handler? How does John not have someone who realizes that you don't just have like a a high level athlete you have arguably the greatest light heavyweight of all time who has not in my opinion reached this potential yet i think john has massive potential outside of what he's actually shown because when he moved to albuquerque and we saw that he was training all the time and we saw the most recent footage before he fought oven saint prux where he's powerlifting.

He looks fucking huge. He's dedicated. He's eating clean. He's making these Instagram videos of all this healthy food he's eating. We're assuming he's getting the proper rest and all these other things. We're assuming, okay, the wild man days are gone.

He's still got the wild man's mind, but now he's going to approach this like a real competitive athlete. Here's my question to you. When someone is wild and talented and impulsive, just a wild motherfucker like Jon Jones is, is it even smart to rein that guy in? Can it affect him?

I mean, is it a positive thing to rein him in? Or is part of what he is and why he's so good and why he's willing to open with a flying knee on Shogun, their first fight, I mean, the first fight for a title at, what was he, 23? Yeah, 24. He opens up with a flying knee on, you know, one of the legends of MMA, former Pride champion or Pride Grand Prix champion and UFC champion as well. You look at a guy like John and the way he competes and the way he's so creative and

wild in there and impulsive. It's almost like that's a part of his success. I fully agree. And historically, I could bring up athletes where that is true, where they go sober, where they go straight and narrow, when they find God, whatever these things are, and they change something that, yeah, the dominoes start to fall. The problem is when you've got a wild man like John, he's in a box. And it's a loose box, and he's having some fun.

But usually that continues to escalate. So he kind of needs to keep himself right in that framework. And the bad news is it usually just keeps pushing. That's a very important point. That becomes a problem. That's a very important point. That becomes a problem. That's a very important point where people escalate things. Like billionaires want more billions, right? They want islands now.

They want fucking jets and spaceships. And with a pro athlete or a wild person who's doing crazy shit, they want to do more crazy shit. They want to drive 150 miles an hour now. Man, but it just seems like whatever the fuck you do, just nerf everything around him, you know? Right. Buy up the town. Yeah. Fucking have three guys that he trusts follow him around everywhere and make sure that he doesn't eat anything that he's not supposed to eat.

Sure. Don't take any pills you're not supposed to take. Don't. Most importantly, don't drive. I mean, that was his biggest problem was getting behind the wheel in front of everything else he was doing. It's like, John, you got to get a chauffeur. You got to get Uber. You got to take a taxi.

Don't get behind the wheel. That was the most of his problems. He had some other ones, but that was the most of it. If you just took him out of the driver's seat, a lot of this doesn't exist. Yeah, a lot of it doesn't exist. But this most recent one obviously does. And the most, like, yeah, he had those two major car accidents where he had that beautiful Bentley and slid it into a tree. Right.

And then obviously the one where he crashed into that woman and left the scene of the crime, which was horrendous. He survived that, though. Yeah. You know, he survived that. He came back in the Ovensame proof fight. He won. He beat a top six guy on short notice. And then this happens.

And to get positive on something as small and innocuous as estrogen blockers. Yeah, I agree. So you go back to that Oven St. Prove fight. Single worst performance of John's career. Single worst by light years. Now you break it down a little further. He won the grappling, He won the striking. He won every round.

He didn't back off. He didn't get tired. He was stronger. And that was on a bad day. I didn't think it was a bad fight. Everyone says it's a single worst performance. I have a great deal of respect for Ovens St. Preux. And I think Ovens is a very dangerous guy.

He's very explosive. His left power kick is extremely strong. He has a nasty left hook. He's a southpaw. He's very explosive. His left power kick is extremely strong. He has a nasty left hook. He's a southpaw. And he fights odd. He has a very odd style. I would agree about Ovance. I think your assessment there is fair,

and I think his stock went up that night. But when I'm watching John, I'm going, okay, this is a rusty John. This is slower. The output's a little bit down. The bottom line is, on a bad day, he left with a world championship. That's how good he is. The other side of John,

when you're talking about the car wrecks, or when we're talking about the cocaine, or what he's going through now, and again, this was my takeaway from the press conference, the biggest takeaway was, John won't own anything. And it's like, John, at some point, you can't do the routine about, I don't know why God put me in this spot.

I don't know why God put me in this spot. I don't know why God put me in this spot. Everything happens for a reason. I'm going to come out better on the other side. It's like, John, you're acting like you got diagnosed with diabetes or cancer or something, and that you're the victim. You were in a hit and run. You did the hitting and you did the running. That was your fault.

On the cocaine thing, you didn't say somebody slipped me a Mickey. You said I was at a party in Brazil. I rolled up 100 and went down to the table. That was your fault. Now you're in a jam here for two banned substances and you're still not taking responsibility and you think God's put you in this spot. It's like, John, you put yourself

in this spot and at some point, if you're the baddest dude in the world, and you are, you gotta man up on these things. You gotta man up and go, hey, I'm guilty and how exactly it happened, I'm gonna try to figure that out. But I'm definitely guilty. USADA does a good job. I trust those labs. Let's get to the bottom of it. Jail, son, and public out. But I'm definitely guilty. USADA does a good job. I trust those labs. Let's get to the bottom of it.

Jail-sunning public relations. This is what we need. We need an earpiece. We need a little earpiece. You put it in Jon Jones' ear. You sit behind the screens. You have a monitor. You go, no, no, no, no, no, Jon.

This is not the script. Stop right there. But no more victim role. Yeah. You stand up like Tony Montana in that fucking restaurant. You're looking at the bad guy. There it is. Say hello. There it is.

Say hello to the bad guy. Yeah, I like to party, bitch. I fucked up. I took some shit. What supplements would have testosterone blockers? Or estrogen blockers, excuse me. None that I've ever heard of. And again, if you're this-

But if they boost testosterone, right? Estrogen blockers, apparently, is more of an effect of testosterone? How does it work? I've never heard that. Now, that could be true. I think of myself as kind of an expert in this field from being on the wrong side, but being on both sides of it. But I've never heard of that.

I can't imagine why a supplement company would do that. And this supplement company wasn't like Tim Means' company or Yoel Ramirez. They came out with a press release instantly. So do not put this on us. Let us know what you need from us. We'll drop it off at the lab ourselves. Jamie, see if you find this online, because someone told me about it this weekend, and I never got a chance to look at it. Someone said that there are certain things in supplements that could have been sold by a company that

would allow you to test positive for these very things. See if you can find that in relationship to John Jones' test. Because I remember someone talking about it, and I said, I got to remember to look this up. Those two chemicals, they only exist in a pharmaceutical world, right? Yeah, that's right. So it's not like it's a root or something and you can act? No.

And then what exactly they got him for? I mean, that's still coming out. But that was one of the things, again, to go back to the press conference. And I think John did more good than he did bad. I think it was kind of a good thing that he came out, he showed courage, he didn't read a script, he answered all the questions. But the bad was he didn't tell us what he tested positive for right and the bad news now he's stuck with speculation if he would have come out and told us exactly what it was you and i wouldn't have to guess and go to the internet and speculate and speculate and rumors is what you what you

don't need right i don't know why he held that with understanding usada's going to tell us if you don't tell us usada i don't think they will no i don't think they will. If they're going to charge him, and they are. I think you're getting sued. If they're going to charge him, and they are, oh, that I'm going for breaking up? You're like, it's medical information. You'll take it? Well, no, not if it's medical information. I suppose you're right with HIPAA, but

this doesn't fall under that. The commission's going to bring charges against him for certain supplements. They're going to bring him in, require that he's there. They're going to have to address it. Then he's going to say his piece. Look, I took this. I didn't think I'd get caught, or I don't know anything about it. That's the route guys go as well. But the bottom line is it's going to come out. I thought he had a good opportunity to tell us what it was and perhaps give a guess as to how it got in his system. If he's going to take that path, the outright denial path, that's not a great one historically,

but some guys take it. If that's the route he's going to go that path, the outright denial path, that's not a great one, historically. But some guys take it. If that's the route he's going to go down, of outright denial, tell us what it is. Oh, yeah. Here we go. Substance test warning. Bodybuilders and other athletes subjected to substance testing should never use this product unless first approved by the validating organization. Product may cause a drug test result called false positive urinary blood.

What is this stuff? Oh, is this the company that John uses? Oh, shit. That guy's clean. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. All that guy's doing is taking testogen. Look at the fucking guy.

Oh, my God. This is hilarious. When you go to this GATT website, and, you know, I don't know what's in there, I don't know if this is a good company, I know nothing other than what I'm seeing right now. You're looking at a guy in their photos that's fucking clearly on steroids! Fucking clearly on steroids! No, he's on testogen, he's on testogen. It says it right there, Jeff. If that guy, that massive mountain of muscle is not on steroids, send me that shit. Send it to me.

Box it up. I'll fucking, I'll promote it for a month for free. If you can get that guy to look like that and test positive, or test negative, like that guy's not on

Anadrol 50 and fucking test siponate and every other fucking thing in the book and gorilla cum and whatever the fuck he's on that's a whole that you should not like i hate to be the guy why why is the white guy so skinny in the background look at that photo again it kind of looks like greg jackson's brother a little bit doesn't he what's that white guy doing in the background like that white guy has a skinny neck, and, you know, he's kind of traps, or he's flexing them, but they're not really that impressive.

And he's in the back, like, looking at this black guy. This is like some cuckold type shit. That's what this is. This black guy's just doing curls, and he's about to fuck the shit out of his girl. And the other guy's, like, looking through the curtain, like, man, I don't even know what to do here. Like, look at his face. He's not lifting.

What is that guy doing in the back? He's like minimal chest development he looks kind of scrawny i would suspect he has something to do with the company or his father does that's generally how these things work out that's bizarre that's a but that is that's a bizarre choice like why is that distracting guy over that gentleman's shoulder like one guy's looking at his arms like, Yeah, fucking look, I'm getting big. This cat shit is working good, man. I'm getting big, bro. Oh, I'm clean. I got a dog tag on.

Probably never been in the military. Just a luck to wear dog tags. Let everybody know I'm going to war. That's like a dog tag with, like, it's, like, bedazzled. See, it's got, like, tune in on that. See, it's got like, tune in on that. See, it's got like on the outside edge of it, it's got like little fucking rhinestones and shit. It's a black dog tag too. It's not even a real dog tag.

This is a weird fucking photo shoot. I don't understand it. So there it is. So there, directions for testogen. Let's go to that directions. I want to find out what I'm supposed to do. So there it is. So there are directions for testogen. Let's go to that directions. I want to find out what I'm supposed to do to get like that guy. And is this the company that John's? Yes.

Or this is just what we brought up? Oh, this is John's. No, this is the company. Okay. On training and non-training days, as a dietary supplement, take two to three tablets with breakfast, another two to three tablets with lunch every day. After six weeks of continual use, one month break is recommended. So it's a cycle.

It's a test. Okay. What are the ingredients? Let's go all the way up. What do we got here? Hmm. weeks of continual use, one month break is recommended. So it's a cycle. Okay, what are the ingredients? Let's go all the way up. What do we got here? Hmm. Vitamin E, vitamin B6, magnesium, zinc, selenium, chromium. No problem there. Okay. Testogen mass strength and size formula. 3B-hydroxy-5-androsten. Sten, not steen. 17-1. Okay. 3-1-H-indol. 3-1- Okay, yeah.

These are tricky little things. Beta-citosterol from soy and other vegetable oils. Okay, I don't know why you have to tell me that. I-prev- A bunch of bullshit after that. They always throw, okay, wild yam root, 25 milligrams. That's nonsense. Wild yams are where they get testosterone from.

They actually extract testosterone. They make it out of wild yams. So, like, when a company throws in, like, 25 milligrams of wild yam, what are you doing? Like, you're just trying to pretend that that's significant. Your wild yam root. A lot of goofy stuff in here. Ginseng extract. Why do you have ginseng? Like, you're just trying to pretend that that's significant. Your wild yam root. A lot of goofy stuff in here. Ginseng extract.

Why do you have ginseng? Yeah, well, come on. He's not taking it. What, you think John Jones is waking up and taking this stuff? Come on. Why not? If it doesn't, beta alanine works. It's got 500 milligrams of beta alanine. That stuff's legit.

I mean, how do you say it? Mucuna purensiscis purensis extract that's been known to uh boost uh human growth hormone i believe but i'm looking at all this stuff that he's doing i might be wrong about that i don't even know how to say that word i don't even know if he was officially taking this particular supplement i just when i googled uh that company and just this is the first one that came up. Of course. Right. Yeah. So this is just by that company. We don't know. But none of these things are estrogen blockers. So it doesn't make sense unless he got a tainted supplement, which again,

and this is not the fault of the company, happens all the time because the way a supplement company works, like say if you wanted to buy a creatine or something from a company, you buy it in bulk from a supplier. And that supplier, you might be in China or who knows where, and they mix these things up and they use the same vats. Like that was the Anderson Silva story. That was his alibi. Is that he was buying liquid Cialis and he was buying it from a company that also sold steroids and apparently according to people that know him that is actually what happened which sounds crazy very well and he had three he had three he tested positive for three things so

maybe that knocks one off the list yeah yeah i hear you there is some confusion there yeah yeah i mean that story's bs but i hear what you're hear you. There is some confusion there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that story's BS, but I hear what you're saying. There is confusion in there. Tim Means was innocent. 100%. Yeah, and Yoel Romero. They ruled that. That's not my opinion.

They ruled that. You look at Yoel Romero. I mean, you want to talk about not passing the smell test? That guy is a goddamn freak of nature. I've never seen a guy. Out of all the other freaks, he makes the other freaks look fucked up. Sure. And Frank Mir, that's

a weird one too. Even their own science. They're confused on Frank Mir's because his metabolites were so low where they're going, look, you passed here, you passed here, but you didn't hear for your metabolites to be this low. You would have had to have taken it six weeks before. But we tested you there.

They're even confused on their science there. They've admitted that. They've gone, this shows up. We've got to do something with it. But we don't understand how you had this reading. And Frank's like, I'll tell you everything I did. I'll tell you everything I ate. I don't know how this works.

You give me the answer. And they're even confused themselves going, this shouldn't be. It is. We've got to deal with it. But it shouldn't be. Did they test his supplements? Did they test the things that he was taking? Frank hadn't taken any supplements. That was the other thing he said.

He fought in some different country. He goes, look, and everybody made fun of him for this, but he was just being honest. He said kangaroo meat. Yeah, and he knows how, he said, now the headlines made him look bad, but Frank was just being keen. He goes, look, the only thing I've done different, I was in this different country, I ate some kangaroo meat for the first time. Everyone teased him, but he's going, this is what USADA asked

me. They asked me, have you done anything different? Well, the IOC is telling athletes in certain parts of the world, in China and in Russia in particular, to not eat the meat. Because if you eat the meat, you could potentially test positive. Right. Depending on when it came in. So Frank offering them that

was just, you know know he got teased for it but he was just being candid he might be right yeah i mean he might have got some unscrupulous kangaroo meat yeah and frank's always been an open guy he was on testosterone he wasn't one of the guys that tried to hide it like the other guys he went and asked for the t i mean frank's a pretty straight up guy he's an open book and it's not all great stuff i mean he'll tell you this he'll tell you yeah when frank says i When Frank says I believe him. Yeah, I do as well. Yeah, he's just, and he has also a career of being straight up to start being deceptive now over something that doesn't really necessarily make sense.

You know, after losing to Mark Hunt like that, this doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. The testosterone thing, that is another thing that I feel like was medically very irresponsible, the way they handled it, and also that they didn't allow guys to take something like an estrogen block or something that, HCG, or something that restarts your endocrine system, but yet they allowed these guys to fight and schedule fights just a couple of months after getting off testosterone therapy. So you put these athletes in a very precarious situation where you're dangling this gigantic financial carrot in front of them. You're saying, hey, man, we got a fight. You're going to make X amount of dollars. This is going to be awesome for

you. But here's the kicker. No more testosterone. All this stuff that's been making you feel good and making your camps go better and allowing you to recover faster, that shit's out the door. So now you have to deal with not just your 37-year-old endocrine system, which is fine, but a 37-year-old endocrine system that needs to be restarted. And you can't restart it. Yeah, that's right. And they do put him in a tough spot, too. And I would be curious if this was ever tested in a court. Because they put him in an interesting spot where a guy gets advice from his doctor, which you're supposed to listen to, and he has to cross-reference that advice with an athletic commission.

And you're going, well, time out a second. We're not talking about illegal drugs here. We're talking about legal medicine, FDA-approved medicine that I'm taking appropriately and in conjunction with my physician and you're telling me i can't take it and that even happens with the common cold flu yeah advil being some of these silly things that over anderson silva so he popped for that steroid but two of the things he popped for were over the counter one of them is a sleep aid that sits on the shelf next to nyquil none of us knew was banned until he got flagged for well scratch our head okay maybe that's on the ban list what does the sleep aid provide, scratch our head. Maybe that's on the banned list.

What does the sleep aid provide as far as performance benefits? Everybody likes to go back to that and go, this doesn't help my performance. It's not a performance test. It's not a steroids test. It's not a drugs test. It's a banned substance test. And that's where they go way out of bounds sometimes. I think back to the Chinese gymnast where they stripped her medal in

2004 and kicked her out of the Olympics forever because she had a billionth of a trace of ibuprofen which has a street name of Advil. This is silly. They go, well, it's an anti-inflammatory and that would help performance. That's a good thing. To take a legal thing that you've found that can help your performance.

Why would you take anything that could hurt you? That was another thing that John came out. He was so adamant that I took nothing to help my performance. I'm going, John, I don't know why that's the high canon of bad things you don't want to be associated with. You took coke, which is a felony, and can kill you, but now you're

standing on the moral high ground that you didn't take anything that could help you. That's just weird. That's weird. It's a weird way to phrase it. If you say, I didn't take anything that would help you that's just weird that's weird it's a weird way to phrase it if you say i didn't take anything that would help my performance then why did you take it no say what the fuck you took and why you took it sure say what it is but why only why joe why would you take any it's a supplement or anything else why would you take it if you didn't have a reasonable expectation that help your performance because if you're not taking it for that then you're taking for the opposite it has to be performance? Because if you're not taking it for that, then you're taking it for the opposite. It has to be one of the two.

Well, you're taking it for something else in life. Maybe you're taking it for anxiety, but that doesn't make any sense with what he was taking it. But, you know, I mean, look, Anderson was taking liquid Cialis because he likes to party. You know, I mean, why do people take different

things that have nothing to do with athletic performance? They take it because there's a desired result. But what I'm saying, if you're trying to fall into the scope of a medicine, like an estrogen blocker would be, or testosterone, those are classified as medicine. And the media can call it drugs all they want. That's medicine under the FDA. You can't become a medicine unless you can reasonably prove that it's going to help a patient. You can't be a doctor, give somebody something that brings them down and makes them worse. That's malpractice. Well, here's one thing that I know for sure.

I don't know why he denied that it would help his performance. Of course you took it to make you feel better. Whatever. I'm drinking coffee right now for the caffeine. That's just what it is. Yeah, that helps your performance. And you were one of the first people to tell me that there's a very specific amount of caffeine that you're allowed to have. So you would take it in pill form. You wouldn't trust a cup of coffee. Right. Well, yes, that's true.

That is true. But I just think that's a ridiculous one, too. They say that two – now, you'd have to be tested, your body, all these different things. But they say that two cups of coffee in a 15-minute period will make you test hot. Now, you'll only test hot for about 15 minutes because caffeine wears off so fast. But yes, if somebody was to come in right now, I got three different coffees in front of me, I could be above the limit on that. I'm sitting here going, I'm getting jazzed up to do a podcast.

I'm not sure that that relates. But the rules are the rules. I'd be cheating. But is that out of competition since it has such a short life? If you came in here, is it because when John tested positive for cocaine against Daniel, it was three weeks out, so it was out of competition. So it

wasn't like he was fighting coked up, right? That's right. And there is two different sets of standards there. And caffeine's gotta be, if you're out of competition, you must be fine. Advil's, you know, we talk about Advil. There is some that are only banned in competition. They're allowed out of competition.

And then there's some no-nos forever. But that's where it starts to get confusing. And then the way they've handled it is to go, it's on the athlete. It's like, well, okay, fair enough. But athletes, particularly fighters, are the lowest form of society. You're the government. You can't just put it on the athletes. It's got to be you're the government.

You're operating on the taxpayer's dollar. You've've got offices you're making the rules you take some responsibility too yeah no i agree i agree and i think especially when you're talking about a medical issue like this testosterone therapy issue i mean it's worked itself out the dust did settle in time they allowed it to just play itself out but i think a lot of guys got fucked over. And I hate to be a Vitor apologist, because I was such a fan of TRT Vitor. You loved him. Oh, my God. We all did. He was such a freak.

He was great. When he fought Bisping and Rockhole, he's wheel-kicking people. And TRT Vitor was fucking terrifying. But Vitor, when he fought Weidman, I remember feeling when he went into the octagon and I saw him bouncing around and his loose skin was moving all over his body. I was like, wow, this guy's fucked. Yeah. Like his body's fucked. This is not a regular 37-year-old guy who's in shape who hasn't taken anything.

No, this is a fucking world championship caliber pro athlete whose body's been just compromised, like massively compromised. I mean, he's rebounded. He looks much better now. But God damn, he looked terrible then. And HCG is so important for that. Any doctor will tell you, if you go on testosterone, you've got to then go on HCG. You've got to turn that back on.

He didn't have that benefit. The rules came in. He had two different flags. And he just wasn't ready to go down that path. So he literally stopped everything cold turkey, opposite of the advice of his doctor. Now, I've never asked him about that. I just know his doctor would have said, look, this is what you need. And he goes, I'm out. There's no room for error here. They've changed the rules. I'm out. Well, that's what's crazy is they don't- And that can affect him long-term, Joe. It certainly can. And certainly the beating that he took could affect him long-term.

And the beating, there's a big factor of having incredibly low testosterone. He had very low testosterone when he went into that fight. There would be a possibility. Actually, see, that's not true. I should recant that. Because Weidman got in his face at the weigh-in and was saying, because he tested at 1,200 and Weidman tested at three. And he was like, what the fuck is going on?

How do you have four times as much testosterone as me? And I talked to Nowitzki about it. I was like, please explain to a moron like me what the fuck is going on. And they were saying, well, it's dependent. It's time dependent. It's how much available testosterone. When did they test him? Was he recovering from sleep?

Was he at his peak? Had he done explosive athletics like squats or deadlifts very recently and then recovered his testosterone, ramped back up? Did they catch Weidman after Weidman had a grueling workout and his testosterone was down? There's a lot of factors, apparently, that play into that. And Weidman had even said himself, he said, look, I kind of have low testosterone while TRT was legal. He's like, I could qualify for it. I can go in and qualify for it.

Yeah, I remember that very well. But Vitor did not have any, he did not have testosterone. His level was high and all of that, but he didn't have any endogenous testosterone in him. He had no supplement whatsoever. So that was a little bit misunderstood. And then also to your point. You mean exogenous.

Thank you very much. And then also to your point, Weidman, when he was tested, if he would have been tested in the morning, it would have been down. Right. If he would have just had a hard workout and chewed up a lot of that testosterone, it would have been down. So that was a little confusing. Vitor's hands were clean there, and Chris was misunderstanding what he was reading and let loose on him. And Chris had every right to assume that Vitor was still trying to slip that through.

That was the better part of his career. But in fairness, he wasn't. When Vitor goes, hey, I'm out, he was out. And they tested the hell out of Vitor. He's passed them all. Vitor went straight. Yeah, he had to. and his body really showed it. Yeah.

Well, when he fought Henderson, the third Henderson fight in Brazil, he looked like he was gaining his muscle mass back. He looked a little bit better. But he just does not look like TRT Vitor. Right. Physically, he's the guy that's had the biggest difference. And I just, I feel like if you're going to say,

you have to be off of it. I think it's ridiculous. I think, I mean, he wanted that title shot and it's really important to him, but I feel like medically, they had a responsibility to give the guy a break. Like to say, we're going to give you six months of restorative therapy,

you know, allow your body to come back into a normal testosterone range, and then re-enter into the drug testing, you know, and we'll test you during that time to make sure that you're not taking anything else on top of that. But to not allow the guy any sort of medicine that can restart his endocrine system seems very irresponsible when it's such a primary factor in performance. You're not talking about fucking volleyball. You're talking about head kicks. And the difference between getting beat up and not getting beat up, between getting brain damage and not getting brain damage, that could play a huge factor in that.

Right. Yeah, and I think in hindsight, I think the commission would have handled it different. They've kind of even said that. Hey, we pulled the rug out here. They went as close to taking some of the responsibilities you could without taking it. And the other side was fighters. We should have been able to just go, time, time out. I can't comply.

But I want to be in compliance compliance but i can't right now i'm taking my oars out of the water i'm gonna go do my leave me out of it don't test me i'll tell you right now it's not give me six months to your point you'd almost have to retire uh-huh but none of us knew see none of us no none of us knew what we didn't know like with vandal a when the guy showed up when the guy came to me and i'm in the closet with none of us knew what was going on it's kind of a different world now you have to have that education process whatever john's going through what tim means what frame this is how we learn you know we learn from guys stumbling and stubbing their toe they just don't give a big allowance for that it's pretty black and white on these rules john's going to be out for two years

i keep hearing things speculative on how long he's going to be it's real clear it's going to be out for two years that's the minimum if he tested but he's out for two years. That's the minimum. If he tests it, he's out for two years. That's just what it is. Well, Anderson wasn't out for two years. Why is that? Anderson beat the clock on the mandatory how long you're out. He came in just before that. Hector Lombard came in just before that. So those guys weren't subject to that.

Anderson got, they could have done whatever they want to him. The standard was nine to 12 months. He probably would have got nine, but he denied it to the end. They could have done whatever they want to him. The standard was nine to 12 months. He probably would have got nine, but he denied it to the end. They hate that. He shows up, all of a sudden he doesn't speak English. They hate that. They were still pretty light on him, though, for three substances and a guy that still was resisting the test and coming in with a story and refusing to talk to him. Twelve months, they were pretty reasonable by their standard. By their standard by their standard what what do you think is a reasonable suspension if a guy does get popped for estrogen blockers

and he says hey i fucked up i wanted an edge i took it what's a reasonable amount of suspension my answer will be different because you said for estrogen blockers again he's blocking something he's not adding something he's blocking something Now they come back in with their intellectual approach and go, well, you're only blocking it because you did something before. We didn't catch it before, so we're going to get you now. Not a terrible argument, but if you just look at what he did, I think there needs to be some conversation there. I was there

in front of the commission one day. I got approved for a steroid, for testosterone. That same day, Nick Diaz took a $100,000 fine and lost his license for a year for pot, of which he had a legal medication for, blah, blah. You know the story on that. So you never know what's going to happen when you get in there. You never know what's going to happen. It's not a court. Remedia likes to say he's going to have his day in court. Well, that's

not, you don't have a day in court. Court implies a judge, which implies a disinterested third party. You're going in front of the people who have accused you. So if they clear you, they're now admitting they got it wrong to start with. That's literally never happened. They have never been wrong. Where they go, hey, we had this wrong. Go on about your day. That's never happened.

Is Vanderlei the first guy to sue the Athletic Commission and win? Was he the first? I can't think of anyone else, but I'd have to look. You know, Nick Diaz did the same thing. And they finally said, okay, look, let's settle with him. But I think with Nick Diaz, they made a compromise. And they banned him for five years for pot. And the world went crazy.

And I gave out the fucking Nevada State Athletic Commission's phone number. I was like, call him up. Tell him it sucks. Sure. And the whole world went crazy. The internet was, they were making petitions. And everybody was emailing and writing people. People were like justifiably outraged.

But that was a little bit different. They reduced his sentence. And the Vanderlei thing was interesting because it seemed like a judge outside of the commission made the call. That is who did it. And it was really weird because they came in with two things. First off, can you ban him for life? And second, did you have jurisdiction over him? Now, if you read the statute, you don't have to be a lawyer. The statute is very small and it's extremely clear they did not have jurisdiction

over him. At the same time, they can do anything they want. So they could ban him for life. You get in front of the judge, the judge ruled just the opposite. You can't ban him for life. That's too extreme, which is not true per the statute. They can do that. Historically, they haven't, but they can. They did not have the right to test him, though, because he was not licensed yet in Nevada. And the statute clearly says to the licensee,

of which he was not. Kaiser, who was in at the time, said, listen, the fight's been announced in my state. He's in my state. That gives me the right. Well, the judge agreed with him. The judge got it just backwards. But when the judge then did not rule on how long the suspension would be,

he sent him back to Nevada. He still hasn't got that resolved. So for every day that they kick the can down the road, they win. He's still suspended. So he got his release from the UFC. He can go fight in any other state he wants right now. Well, he's preparing to fight Fedor, right? Isn't that a fight they were trying to make for Ryzen?

Not that I know of. I heard a rumor that he would get to that eventually, but Vandalay's got some kind of wrestling thing lined up for like a tag team wrestling match is how he's going to ease his way back into the pool. He just got hit by a car. Yeah, I read that, but he's okay, fortunately. Yeah, well, I thought he had shoulder surgery.

He could have. He could have, but I heard it hasn't delayed his competition. Okay. Yeah, well, I had heard that he was going to be fighting. See if you can find that. I heard that he was going to be fighting Fedor in Japan. And, you know, Fedor, man, seeing his fight with Maldonado, I was like, wow, how far the mighty have fallen.

He just does not look the same at all.'s a son of a gun too man when you get tired it doesn't it doesn't matter how good you are it doesn't matter what you did before if you get tired you got problems now the good news for him is maldonado got tired too yeah momo maldonado's never been a guy that's been the most conditioned guy in the world but he is is a guy with fantastic boxing. Very good boxing. And he caught Fedor with a couple good shots and had him really badly hurt. A lot of people think that fight could have been stopped. I mean, under a bad judge. I don't think it should have been stopped.

But under a bad referee, it could have been. Sure. Or a referee that was a little too quick to pull the trigger. Or if it wasn't in Russia. Yeah, there was definitely some politics there. And I felt bad for Maldonado. You know, Maldonado thought he was going to get a fair shake. And I'm looking at it going, well, no, Maldonado, make sure you get a good paycheck because you're not getting a fair shake in Russia.

And then he even filed a complaint after the fact, a petition. I think he filed two. It's like, Maldonado, just stop. Maybe you don't know how this works over there, but it's over. Yeah, it's over. I mean, unless he flatlined him, he wasn't winning. Right. He would have had to have knocked him out.

flatlined him he wasn't winning right he would have had to have knocked him out and i'm sure whatever referee at the time would be very hesitant to stop that fight with even with fedor getting his brains beat sure if he thought he could make it to the bell and the real controversy was that first round that you're talking about where the ref could have stopped it probably should have it wasn't a 10-8 round and it's like look if that's not a 10-8 round right then what is and that fight should have been a draw it was it was one round but it was 10-8 to two rounds for Fedor a lot of people argue rounds two and three but they're they're wrong Fedor won those rounds maybe they're close but he won them they should have been a draw yeah he him not being in the UFC during his prime is one of the great tragedies of MMA I really really feel that I would have loved to seen the Fedor that fought Krokop

fight in the UFC and I think he would have been heavy seen the Fedor that fought Krokop fight in the UFC. And I think he would have been heavyweight champion. I really do. I think he, the only argument against him being the greatest of all time, in my opinion, is Cain Velasquez. And I guess you could kind of make it for Verdum, but I think Verdum that got knocked out by Stipe was a healthy Verdum. He just got emotional and crazy and he charged after Stipe and Stipe's that fucking good. Yeah, he is. He's really good. I mean and Stipe's that fucking good. Yeah, he is. He's really good. I mean, Stipe's a bad motherfucker.

No doubt about it. He's a deserving world champion. But, man, I would have loved to have seen primetime Kane versus primetime Fadewell. Sure. I'd love to see it, too. And I maintain that Kane is the most intimidating figure in the heavyweight division. That even though he's jerking the curtain on Saturday night for the biggest card ever, he is the most intimidating guy.

What does that mean, jerking the curtain? Jerking the curtain is the guy that starts the show. You gotta pull the curtain out of the way to start the show. Because he started it on Saturday night? Because he started it on Saturday night. The former heavyweight champion who's headlined cards and had bills with his name on the top of them, now all of a sudden he's jerking the curtain

at the start of the show. But that's just because it's UFC 200. Well, that's what I'm saying. It was the biggest card there was. What a performance he had, though. Great performance. Travis Brown is nobody's fool. No. Travis Brown's ranked No. 4 in the world, was ranked No. 3, and he should be.

And Travis caught him clean with his straight right hand that first round. One of the few guys to beat Josh Barnett. And Travis is a good heavyweight. He needs to be a basketball player. You talk about Stipe a minute ago. Stipe's a good athlete. And we don't have a ton of them. Some of the great athletes that are that size, they go into some other professions. You don't usually get them in this one.

Stipe's a good-looking heavyweight. He moves well. He works hard. He's got the wrestling background. He played baseball. He's just a good guy, man. Yeah, he really is. He's a cool guy.

What Kane brings to the table is some freak cardio and perfect technique I mean, he's just he's so unusual in his cardio. What about that wheel kick? Yeah incredible crazy through two of them I was even trying that good that Javier pulled him aside. He goes hey came we can start working on will kick I don't know what I was saying, but they were good. There was beautiful. There was nothing wrong with them I mean some got like when wide went through that Wheel kick against Rockhold, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what the fuck are you doing? Right.

And then he gets taken down and beaten up. Chris, why? And it wasn't a good wheel kick. It was a goofy wheel kick. Yeah, it just didn't look right. But when you saw Kane throw, you're like, oh, that's perfect. Yeah. But that's how he executes punches, kicks, takedowns.

Everything is perfect. There's no windup. Nothing has extra horsepower behind it. Everything's precise. He's one of my favorite all-time guys to watch because of that. Yeah, I agree with that. And then to your point on Verdum. So Verdum beats Fedor, who might be the greatest.

So you say you don't know who the greatest ever was. Was it Fedor or was it Kane? It could be Verdum. Verdum beat them both. But Verdum doesn't end up in the conversation. It's one of those weird things. He does. I think he does.

But, you know, I mean, because you've got to think the prime Verdum who beat Fedor, the prime Verdum that beat Kane, could probably have beaten those guys no matter what. It's very possible he could have beaten those guys no matter what. So I think he does go into the conversation. It's just the history that Kane had and the history that Fedor had. I mean, Kane's insane wars and the way he broke down Junior Dos Santos. He gets knocked out in the first fight, and then the next two fights just puts a fucking hellacious beating on him. Right.

I think, boy, you know, MMA math sucks. Sure. It's real hard to say, this guy beat that guy, so he's number one, and that guy beat this guy. And when you talk about it, one of the elements that comes in isn't the guy's wins and losses and his skills. It's also an intimidation factor. What kind of intimidation do you have? Well, for Dooms, he makes the Joker face, and he's always teasing around.

So he gets overlooked, but I don't think that's fair. The same thing's happening to Bisping. Weidman comes out. He says Bisping's the most undeserving person of all time to end up in a title spot. And I'm going, timeout. And Chris is a stud, but Chris, timeout. You become famous and world champion by beating Anderson Silva. Bisping just beat the same guy that you beat.

Bisping just beat the same guy that put yourself over. Why does it not put Bisping over? Now he just beats Rockhold, who beat you, but Bisping's still not over. And it's kind of a weird thing. Not only does it put Bisping over, but Bisping beat Rockhold when Rockhold was fighting. He wasn't clowning around.

When Chris beat Anderson, he beat him twice. He beat him once when Anderson dropped his hands and was being silly. And he got cracked. And everybody was like, I can't believe Anderson did that. It was a terrible way to lose. It wasn't just that they were in exchange and Chris landed a bomb of a left hook. No.

It was Anderson was pretending to be hurt. And then he was like faking wobbling and trying to duck out of the way of punches like he always does. And Chris cracked him. Then the second fight, he breaks his leg. And he throws a kick, checks it, and breaks his leg. He breaks his leg. I mean, he throws a kick, checks it, and breaks his leg. Granted, Chris beat the shit out of him in the first round and almost had him in bad trouble in that first round.

Controlled him on the ground, beat him up. So they go into the second round. He breaks his leg in the second fight. So those are more freakish than what Bisping did. What Bisping did is just straight up. He fucking landed a beautiful left hook, hurt him, moved in for the kill, closed the show, legit champion, 100% no controversy. I fully agree with that.

And I love this Knicks matchup. You know, you heard it's going to be Dan Henderson. And that doesn't go in the rankings. I get all of that. But, you know, I like the UFC when they make the matches that people want to see. And that's an interesting match. It is. If you think Bisping's going to just go in and beat him,

or you look at Dan's record, you think that Bisping doesn't go to bed at night remembering what that was like, the teasing, the highlight reel, all the people, everybody telling him about making fun of him. Dan's logo is him flying through the air when he pounded Bisping after he was unconscious. That's his logo. I mean, it's his highlight reel knockout. I stayed at Dan Henderson's house for a month helping him train for VTOR, and when you turn Dan's TV off at night, the remote control says,

lights out, and it's him hitting Bisping. That's what lights up on his remote control. So, I mean, if you think Dan doesn't have confidence going into this, sure he has confidence. He knows he can beat him. He already did. And if you think Bisping's not going, man, I really don't want to be in there with that guy again.

He's going to say, oh, I want that one back. He's going to say all those things and try to convince himself, but the bottom line is that's relevant. Dan Henderson could be the world champion. It's very possible. Very possible. Look, he just knocked Hector Lombard dead. Hector's tougher than hell. Hector's never been given the credit that he deserves. He's a monster.

Monster. Fights at two different weights. Yeah. Ridiculous power. And he had Dan hurt. And Dan had him hurt. Dan hurt him first. Hector came back, hurt Dan. Dan he had Dan hurt. And Dan had him hurt. Dan hurt him first. Hector came back, hurt Dan. Dan recovered and knocked him out with a crazy fucking elbow. And then another shot once he moves basically out from that back elbow. Right.

But it shows that Dan can still shut the lights out on a guy in his prime who's a destroyer who's never been knocked out before in the Octagon. I fully agree. I fully agree. And Hector's one of those guys, regardless of what happens to him,'s never been knocked out before in the octagon. I fully agree. I fully agree. And Hector's one of those guys, regardless of what happens to him, and Hector stubbed his toe a few times, you want to see Hector fight. Hector's got the whole thing. He's going to do the promos beforehand.

He's going to mean it. He's going to hate that opponent. It's real. He's going to look like a million bucks, and he's going to come out fighting. Whatever happens after that happens, but he's coming to fight. Well, he went out on his shield. And when you look at this fight between Bisping and Henderson, that's the most exciting fight. I mean, that's why I like the fact that the UFC made it.

That's the fight that I wanted to see. I put it on my Instagram. I'm like, come. Yes, please. Please. Let's make it happen. Let's do it. Yeah, that's the fight.

And if Dan goes out, Dan came to my, his fight was on a Saturday. He came to my show at the Ice House in Pasadena on Wednesday. He said he had been on a Saturday. He came to my show at the Ice House in Pasadena on Wednesday. He said he had been drunk since Saturday. That sounds reasonable. He was so happy. He was so happy. And I'm like, well, what do you think? Is it possible?

And he's like, we're trying. We're trying to make that happen. Like the Bisping fight. I'm like, that is the fight to make. And I go, would you retire if you went out with that fight? He goes, yeah. He goes, that's the only fight I want right now. He goes, I don't even really want to fight anybody else.

I want to fight him, and then I think I'm done. Now what about when George St-Pierre was saying he would come back and he wanted Bisping, and if George comes to the table and says, I'll come back, but only if, well, then it's only if. You're doing that. That's a big fight if he comes back and fights Bisping. I don't know if it's a bigger fight than Henderson. I agree that it doesn't sell more, but I'm saying if that's what you've got to do to get George back to the table,

I think you'd do it, don't you? If you're Dana, don't you do it? I don't think that's what you need to do. I think he's just saying that because it's an attractive option. Because, you know, Bisping has the title. It's an interesting fight. He wouldn't have to cut weight. I mean, literally, he's walking around at 186.

Bisping's a much larger guy than him. Much larger. You think that Dana told George no? No. I don't want to do that match? No, I just think they probably didn't really have it worked out. They were probably discussing it, trying to figure out what the details would be. But if you look at the most attractive fight to Bisping,

I would think the Henderson fight would be because Dana doesn't have much time left. If he misses him this time around, he might not ever be able to fight him again. This thing legitimately wants to get revenge. And he's the world champion now. It's his call. So kudos to him for taking this fight, for saying, you know what, man? This guy just blew.

It's not like he called him out right after he just got knocked out in the first round by Vitor. No, he called him out after he just destroyed Hector Lombard. And that was one of the greatest knockouts in the fucking history of the sport. I mean, when that happened, because when you consider all that was at stake, when you consider that Dan was 45 years old, that people thought he was in the twilight of his career, that he's stepping in there to fight Hector Lombard, it was just a fucking monster in his prime.

Like, that was a great knockout, an all-time great result. So kudos to Bisping. Kudos to Bisping for wanting that fight now. And the way Bisping needs to handle it when you factor Jacare in, who's going, hey, wait a minute. I had a beat in you. I got the skills to beat you. I'm the number one contender.

Here's how Bisping will handle it. No, you're not. Wait your turn. That's how they'll handle it. The way to shut those guys down, Joe, is to go back to beat you. I'm the number one contender. Here's how Bisping will handle it. No, you're not. Wait your turn. That's how they'll handle it. The way to shut those guys down, Joe, is to go back to the truth. The truth's your friend. Listen, Jacare, you're more dangerous. You're more likely to beat me, and I'm not looking to get beat, so I'm going to go

deal with this guy. It shuts everything up. Bisping won't do it. Everybody likes to go, well, wait your turn, and this and that. You're not as good as you think you are. Go fight Yoel Romero. Whatever it is, steer right into it. Yeah, man, you're way more likely. Here's what I want to do. I want to fight the easiest guy in the biggest stadium for the largest paycheck, and that's

what I'm in a politic to do. So you do your thing, and I'm going to do mine. Well, the Jacare argument is not very good for Jacare because he lost the fight with Yoel Romero. I, for some reason, had an erroneous memory of Jacare winning the decision. I don't know why. Maybe it's because of him testing positive, but it was a very close fight too. I remember not knowing

after it was over. I remember Yoel blasted him and had him really badly hurt, but I felt like Jacare came back a bit and it was a very close fight towards the end. It was very tight. I agreed with the decision. But Yoel popped. But I concede it was tight. Jacare, he's fantastic. So is the decision. But Yoel popped. But I concede it was tight. And Jacques Ray, he's fantastic. Yeah, he's fantastic.

So is Yoel. They're both fantastic. Yeah, they really are. And when he lost that fight, though, it's real hard to lose a fight. Even if a guy had popped for a tainted supplement, they're only giving him a six-month suspension. It's real hard to make an argument that you deserve the next shot at the title. I think that actually solidifies Dan's position. i agree with you can i switch gears yeah i gotta ask you about you ask me about anything joey diaz tell me everything how did you meet joey diaz

because i because then i want you to ask me this i want you to ask me what my experience with joey but how did you meet him how did he come into the fold i met jo Joey Diaz in the late 90s at the Comedy Store. I think I met him in like 96 or 97, something like that. Right when Joey moved to LA. We just started hanging around the Comedy Store. We became friends. And then I started taking him on the road with me. Like the late 90s.

We've been best friends forever. So I know of Joey. I don't know Joey. I've never met him. You've never met Joey? Never. I call him up right now. TV and the whole bit.

And, you know, I know him from you. You need to meet him. And I see your podcast and all that. And he's in the circles. He does some jujitsu. He's funnier than hell. And he's a gangster, so I like him. But I don't know anything about him.

So he comes on my podcast. Now, he has a podcast. So, of course, my opening line to him is, hey, how'd you get into podcast? Right, I'm going to put – here's your plug for your podcast and we're gonna go on and talk about my agenda so i say joe i say to him joey how'd you get into podcasting his response you know chail sun and he wouldn't call me chail it was always you know what chail son still calls me joe rogan i mugged a hooker down in New Jersey and set her wig on fire. There's two moving parts here.

First off, I don't know how that answers my question. But now I need to know the story here. So he ties it all together with he went on something, something he got an appearance. He told the story of mugging a hooker in New Jersey and setting her wig on fire. And all of a sudden, he blew up overnight. And he goes, yeah, I realize people like those stories. I never knew that I had stories. From the part of the country I'm in and the neighborhood I grew up in, I thought everybody had these stories.

He's like, chill, son. And I thought I'd tell you I mug a hooker and light her wig on fire. You go, yeah, well, I mugged 10 hookers and lit 10 wigs on fire. He's like, I didn't know I had stories. And then it just goes from there. And he starts telling me about, so he ends up doing two years or 18 months. And I said, well, what kind of jam did you get in there? And he said, well, I was actually, I was doing the cop's job for him.

You know, the cops don't want drugs on the streets. I went and took two kilos off the streets for him. This is how he presents it to me. And he goes, yeah, you know, the two kilos wasn't as big of a deal. Oh, I robbed two kilos. He goes, and you know what else, Chael Sonnen? I just happen to have a machine gun. And I go, well, I can see where that happened.

He goes, yeah, sometimes you just back into a machine gun. I had a machine gun with me. And he goes, but it's funny. I wasn't in trouble for the gun. I really wasn't in that much trouble for the drugs. What they were upset about was the kidnapping. I'm going, okay, what happened? This is my intro to the guy.

I'm like, what in the hell is this story? You probably know the story, but I didn't. So he tells me the whole story, and he says, yeah, but kidnapping's kind of a weird charge because when you and Vandalay got in that scuffle in The Ultimate Fighter, if I come and grab you and I take you into the next room just to cool you down, taking you into a room against your will, that's kidnapping. So I think they got him on a technicality jam like what they're doing with Frank Mir, some of these guys we're talking about. room just to cool you down taking you into a room against your that's kidnapping so i think like they got him on a technicality jam like what they're doing with frank me or some of these

guys we're talking about and i said okay is that what happened and he goes no i duct taped the guy who's in my trunk and i held him in the house for a week before i let him go like well then why did you tell me why did you bring up the initial example of taking me next door and cooling me down what that have to do? I still don't know. Because he's crazy. It's funnier than hell. And I asked, so I was trying to talk like some, see, I try to do more of a Joe Rogan experience.

You're my idol. I try to do my show the way you do yours, but I'm not there yet. It takes a while to build that audience. So I got to stick on MMA and pro wrestling. I got to really stay in, but I don't want that. I want to just talk. Well, you could just talk. You definitely could just talk.

Well, as I bring these guys in, I'm trying to do a little more of that. I go to TMZ. I see the local stuff. I try to ask them pop culture questions, so I dip my toe in politics with Joey. Obama had just made this new rule of going to any bathroom you want. So I asked Joey about that, and he goes, chill, son, I've been taking a dump in the woman's

bathroom since I'm five years old. And believe me I have dealt with the consequences but he wasn't kidding Joe that's what's so funny man it's a shoot he's being real and he tells me he is pro wrestling lingo

my mom used to own a restaurant so you know I cleaned the bathroom then I'd sit down in the women's he goes you know what happens if you drop your coke on a men's bathroom floor no I don you know, I cleaned the bathroom, then I'd sit down. And the women's, he goes, you know what happens if you drop your Coke on a men's bathroom floor? No, I don't know, I don't do Coke. What? Like, I've tested positive for everything in the world, but Coke wasn't one of them. And he says, you leave it there. You know what

happens if I drop my Coke on a women's bathroom floor? You get down and lick it up. That's what he says, but he's trying to say the women's room's cleaner. He's been using it since he's five years old, and he said, and I have dealt with the consequences, which he's trying to say the women's room's cleaner. He's been using them since he's five years old. And he said, and I have dealt with the consequences, which I knew. I want the answer to what those were. It's just, it's like, there's too many other things to talk to this guy about.

I got to get back to the hooker with the wig that he mugged. I've known Joey for 20 years, and he's never stopped running out of stories. And they're all real. His life is so fucking crazy that people go, that guy just comes on your show and makes stuff up. That's what people used to say. When I used to have him on, he used to say, like, when we first started doing the podcast, he was like, I'm tired of that Joey Diaz guy. He's lying.

He's just making things up. Haters would say that. But then people would come on his show and substantiate it. He would call people up in New Jersey that he grew up with. They would tell. He would go, tell them that fucking story about the time we lit the hooker's wig on fire. And then they would tell the same story. He's lived a movie.

Not a movie. An epic adventure series of novels. His life is insane. Well, to qualify. So he tells this story about robbing this guy with a machine gun that he just happened to have, taking the two kilos off the street,

doing the cop's job for him, but then having the guy in his trunk duct taped before he moved him to the house before he let him go. He had that guy on his podcast.

Yes. He found him on social media, tried to friend him or like him or whatever you call it. I'm a Twitter guy, but this was Facebook. Guy ignored him

for about two years and finally responded. Now Joey's had him on his pockets. He says we catch up about once a month. And he goes, yeah, the guy was good people. He never turned me in. He said it was my partner in the whole thing.

The partner tried to double cross me. We stole the Coke. Then he was going to steal it from me. But I knew what time it was. Now that's an expression I'd never heard before, but I plan to take with me through my next years in life. Whenever you, I knew what time it was. I just thought that was a great line.

The whole thing was great. I asked him about the gorilla. The gorilla had just got shot where they killed him at the zoo. And he says, you know what, Chael, they don't give us the good gorillas. I'm down at the zoo last week. The gorillas, they got their hair messed up. They don't eat bananas. They want chicken cutlets.

Shoot the effing gorilla. And it's like, you had no idea i was gonna ask you that that was so spontaneously funny you know that news had just broken right then i was like this is the guy this is a funny guy no he's unbelievable he's the funniest person i've ever met in my life he's the funniest comedian i've ever seen in my life well i've never seen him live you got to see him live how long in town for uh i'm here till tomorrow. I'm going to do Fighter and the Kid. I've got to see Adam Hunter last night live. And he lit it up.

Adam Hunter. Adam's very funny. He was very funny. He's very good. He's a really good writer, too. He worked the whole crowd in. He made it a thing, and he sold the venue out as this real intimate atmosphere at Stratosphere. I would guess 100 seats.

Very small, but it was packed. That's perfect. Went right around the room. I mean, he rose. There's nothing off limits. Women's jokes, gay jokes, race jokes, everything. And it was awesome. And possibly his funniest line. He was going around to couples. Hey, how'd you guys meet? Hey, how'd you guys meet?

You know, where'd you guys meet? Did you meet at the UFC? You guys fight? He's doing the whole thing. There's a nerdy couple. He goes, where'd you guys meet? Lenscrafters? Right. See, it's brilliance is in its simplicity. You can use that line in school and not even get attention. I mean, that's a powerful and funny line, and the teacher can't even send you to the office for it. It's not mean.

Right. It's not mean. It's just funny. No, he's a funny dude. I got in trouble for quoting one of his jokes during a Fox broadcast, like a Fox Sports 1. Who was the fighter that he was telling the joke about? He said he comes from behind more than Lance Bass.

Yes. Who was it, though? I can't remember, but that was a funny line. It's fucking hilarious. You used it on like a pay-per-view, though, or something, didn't you? No, no, no. I think it was on FS1. That was part of the problem. Okay.

It works. Martin Kampman? Yeah, it was Martin Kampman. And I just wanted to credit him because it made me laugh so hard. That's so funny. So I said, as my friend Adam Hunter. So I kind of got away with it because it wasn't my joke. Yeah.

Because if I had said it, like, I don't know. Well, here, if we're playing that game, I can't tell one. But if I quote him, maybe I can. He sends me a text after the Orlando shooting. The very next day, he says, hey, man, let me know you're okay. I heard there was a shooting at a gay club. I just want to check on you. It's like, no, you've got to do that in private.

Unless you're a comedian. Now, comedians can do anything they want. Yeah, just loopholes. It was hilarious. I'm just reading it going, that's funny. I wonder how many other people you sent that to, but I'm the right mark for that because that's funny. That's funny. It is funny. Well, that many other people you sent that to, but I'm the right mark for that because that's funny. That's funny. It is funny. Well, that's a weird position.

And I believe in the rule, Joe. If it's funny, then you can do it. Yes. Well, funny is subjective, right? Like, what's funny to you? Other people might get offended, and that's one of the things that people who love to be recreationally outraged, that's what they do. They'll find a joke and they'll say, that's not funny to me. It's horribly

offensive, and it's degrading, and blah, blah find a joke and they'll say that's not funny to me. It's horribly offensive And it's you know degrading and blah blah blah and they'll come up with a bunch of reasons why it shouldn't be funny But if there's someone out there that's howling at the same time you're protesting the other person's howling laughing right then it did its job Yeah, tricky for me. You sent out a great tweet You might it might have been as recently as yesterday But the first it was a two-part the first The first part said, this country has a mental health problem disguised as a gun problem. And this country has a tyranny problem disguised as a security problem. And it went crazy. Twitter lit it up.

And when I'm reading that, I'm going, okay, Joe's dipping in something here. Joe doesn't usually dip in. But he's right. There is no way to say that that statement's not right, and it wasn't meant to be funny. That was a very true, and I thought a powerful statement by you. Thank you. It's actually a couple years old. It's just going around a lot.

People are retweeting it a lot. Okay, it came back. But there's no way you can't call what happened in Orlando a mental health problem. There's plenty of guns. There are more guns than there are human beings in this country. And if there was a gun problem the way a lot of people like to pretend there's a gun problem or the way they like to, I shouldn't say pretend because obviously there's an issue, the way they like to categorize it,

there would be people shooting people en masse all day long every day. It would be impossible to go out of the house without looking for gunfire. That's not the case. When you think about how many people are there are and how many guns there are and how statistically rare it is that these things happen it shows you and then you factor in how many of these people are on antidepressants how many of these people are being weaned off of antidepressants those numbers are terrifying because when you look at the correlation and, you know, correlation does not equal causation. There's a weird argument, but it's an undeniable factor that has to be at least debated and discussed.

There are so many fucking people in this country on disassociating meds, on things that allow you to get away with you you can justify and do and and and act in horrific ways and not exactly know what the fuck you're doing that is one of the problems that's associated with certain antidepressants and to not connect those two is crazy and to not and even if they're not medicated forget about the medication because the medication is one issue the the type of person that can go into a fucking school and shoot a bunch of kids, if you don't think that's a mental illness issue, oh, it's only a gun issue. That's fucking crazy. It's not a gun issue. That's like calling 9-11 a plane issue. It's not. It's not a gun issue. The gun factor is real. There is a problem if psycho people and people with criminal

records or people that are mentally disturbed can buy guns. Yes, that's a problem. You know what else is a problem? The fact that I can get a fucking, I can get a gun and I don't even know how to use it. That's a problem. You have to have a license to drive a car. You have someone that has to sit with you. You have to take these turns.

You have to turn right here. You have to fully stop at the stop sign. You have to do all these things and if you don't do it, you don't get your driver's license. All you have to do is not be a criminal, and you get a gun. That is fucking crazy. And in the age, too, and that's relevant. My nephew's eight years old. Last Christmas, he got a gun. And we live in the country.

That's normal. Kids have guns by the time they're eight years old. At three, four years old, they're starting with BB guns. They advance to a pellet. You get a shotgun. Some parts of the world go, man, that's insane. You gave a kid a gun. Well, we live out in the country. Yes, the kid has the gun. The other side of it, though, there is no crimes where I come from done with a gun. Whether a guy's doing a simple robbery, and I don't mean to dismiss that, but in the eyes of murder, it is never. And one of the reasons that we maintain is when you have

guns and you grow up with guns, you learn the dangers of guns. You never play with those things. You never point those things at anybody. When you're out shooting watermelons and pop cans or whatever it may be, you learn real fast, this is why I don't pull a gun. This is why I don't do these things. We don't know anything about the things like the cities in New York and all these people that are trying to take the guns away. We don't know anything about that out in the country. Never. We don't have any gun that out in the country. Never.

We don't have any gun problems and everybody's got them. Well, don't you also think that living in a place like the country where everybody does have guns, that is a very different environment than living in a city. If everybody had guns in the city, you have so much more tension going on. It's so much different. Like the environment's different. I don't necessarily think it would be great if New York City had as many guns per capita as Oregon.

Sure. And your original point on this is the only thing that stops you from getting a gun is having a felony. It's like, well, that makes sense and nobody's disputing that, but there's got to be a few more things. To your point, we need to find out if you're medicated.

A simple drug test, this is pretty quick. You know, the NRA is real big that a guy gets a gun today because he might need to take it. Well, no, the guy's got a plan ahead. It's just like a driver's license. Maybe the 16-year-old has a date on Saturday, but if he doesn't have the license, then he's just going to have to postpone the date. Because there needs to be more things than just simply going, you know, let me run your fingerprints and if something comes back. To your point, are you on drugs or are you on medication? And how about a train of thought?

I've never heard anybody make that argument before, but I love that analogy. You have to get a license for a car. It's a pretty simple process, but you have to do it. Well, you should have to do that with a gun, too, because people need to know why you don't use guns. Yeah, 100%. I mean, you have to get a hunter safety certificate if you want to hunt and if you want to use the gun. And, you know, it's really, it's very detailed. In most states, you have to have one, in many states at least.

Actually, I don't even think that you have to have it in California. But you, which is weird because California is like one of the most restrictive states when it comes to firearms. But you have to go through this long, difficult course and you have to pass tests. You have to actually know what the fuck you're doing. Right. And if you don't, you don't get your hunter safety certificate, and then you can't hunt. You can't get a license, right?

Yeah, you can't get a license. And I think that what the NRA does is they take a hard stance on the side of promoting guns, and they don't move. Not only do they not budge, they almost are unreasonable in their position. But I feel like that is because the left is so unreasonable. When anything goes on, they immediately want to ban guns and take guns away. It's not feasible. And people are like, whoa, look what they did in Australia.

Australia is 20 million people. It's the size of the continental United States. To equate Australia with the United States is insane. There's just way too many people here. It's a completely different. And by the way, they didn't ban guns in Australia. People hunt with guns. You can get guns.

You can register guns. You get them. You belong a part of hunting clubs like they do in Europe. You keep them stored in lockers. It's not a full on ban on firearms. It's just much more restrictive. Yeah. The NRA is trying to stop restrictions.

And the reason why they're trying to stop restrictions is because, you know, when anything goes on television, it's very disingenuous for someone to go on television after some sort of a massacre and not bring up all the factors, not bring up psych meds, not bring up mental health, not talk about the correlation between raising kids in abusive households and having children grow up with this, these horrible lives. And then they go on and become fucking psychopaths. Sure. There's a, there's a correlation there.

It's not simply whether or not the kid had the tool to do the job. It's like, why the fuck did they want to do that in the first place? And then you find out so many of these cases, like this guy in Orlando, the FBI had him on a watch list just a couple of years ago. Twice. Yeah. I mean, come on, man. That fucking kid in Colorado that killed everybody at the movie theater, they knew that guy was out of his fucking mind. He had talked about killing a bunch of people. And there's a lot of those cases where they get ignored. And that's a giant issue. And I don't know how to solve that issue. Because what do you do when someone comes along and says, hey, I'm thinking about going into a movie theater and killing a bunch of people.

I'm just kidding. What do you do? I'm going to go by your first statement and lock you up forever? I don't know. I don't know what to do there. And I think there's a gigantic argument when it comes to gun violence in this country. But there's a gigantic argument when it comes to mental illness, and we're pushing that one aside. Yeah, and I think they just do it at the

wrong time. They get emotions involved. JFK made a statement back when he was president. Never let a good crisis go to waste. So it is believed by politicians, when you have a crisis, that's when you go on the attack. But that's when emotions are the highest. I disagree with this statement. It's a good time to get your agenda out there, but you're just pissing people

off and you're entrenching them in their own views. A good time to get your agenda out there, but you're just pissing people off and you're entrenching them in their own views. A great time to bring up the gun argument. I'm pro-gun, but I do understand. Look, there's some room to give here. I love what you said about a license. You relate that to driving a car. It makes perfect sense.

Bring it when emotions are a little bit less. Come forward and go, hey, listen, let's make sure we do this. If you're worried about your safety, kind of get a little bit proactive here. Start the process so you can have a gun if that's what you want to do. But I think that they're wrong following JFK's model that he said in 1964. I think here in 2016, let emotions die down a little bit. Let people not be pissed on one side or the other, worried about protecting themselves and their family or worried that something's going to happen to themselves or their family. You get good people with really different views here. I think that they're misplacing JFK's philosophy.

In my opinion, in 2016, let things die down a little bit and then bring it up. Yeah, and there's also this weird adherence, concrete adherence to the Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment. I mean, yeah, I think that people should – look, I don't think – if there's only three of us in this world, all right, you, me and Jamie, we're the only ones. If Jamie came along and said nobody could have guns, I think we would get together and go, fuck that guy. Who's this guy to tell us what we can and can't do? That same thought process could be applied to 300 million people. It's just I don't agree that a grown human being should be able to tell another grown human being what they can and can't do as long as it's not like if you say hey joe i'm thinking about starting a fucking nuclear

power plant in your backyard and i'm pretty sure i know what i'm doing but if i don't we're gonna have to move to the middle of the ocean right well then we got a problem sure and you could sort of apply that logic to guns you say well you know if you if you're a fucking gun nut and you like to shoot guns off in your backyard and you you know, you might ricochet one and fucking shoot my dog or something, then it becomes a safety issue and a health issue. But it's hard to justify using the words of people that lived in the fucking 1700s when it comes to today with the kind of guns that we have, with the kind of society that we have with the kind of society that we have with the kind of just our

Across the board our legal system our our our system of government representative government All that stuff is fucking bananas in the world of 2016 Representative government has no place in a world where everyone has social media, where everyone can be represented instantaneously. You don't have to get on a fucking horse and take a parchment across the country to hand it to some dude in a powdered wig. That's old. We don't need that anymore. So when you start talking about things that are in the Bill of Rights and things that are in the Constitution, gee, you think it's time to update that fucking ancient piece of shit? Thank you.

I mean, it was great. They had amazing insight. They were brilliant people. We owe them everything. This experiment of self-government that the United States of America was founded on is a fantastic invention. And it's one of the reasons why so much art and creativity and innovation and freedom come from this part of the world. from this part of the world. But to rely on the exact words written with a fucking feather back when people were taking wooden boats

across the ocean hoping they wouldn't get eaten by Indians when they landed here. Native Americans, sorry. I just think it's ridiculous. Is Indian bad? You're not supposed to say Indian anymore? I'm not supposed to say that. Really?

No. It's right up there with retard and... Could you say homo? I think you still say homo. Homo sapien. I did not know that. I did not know that. I know politicians try to be correct all the time and say African American, but that term is wrong.

It's black. Yes. Not all blacks are African. Yeah, there's a lot of people from Haiti. Yeah, to your point, though, people have this absolute fetish for the Constitution, no matter how many times we've amended it over the years. And it extends to the Bill of Rights, too. And they need to take...

You know, you bring up a feather, and that's accurate. They sign it with a feather, but they were also married to their cousin and they bathed once a week. And they had slaves. There you go. And it's like, hey, guys, things change. Now, these guys did their level best at that time, but they couldn't see the world in perpetuity. And the other side of it is, no matter how many times we've amended the Constitution, you guys still have a fetish that this was like the gospel.

This wasn't touched by the hand of God. This was written by knuckleheads with eighth grade educations. Yeah, and the thing about the Bill of Rights, the reason why they cling to that Second Amendment is because it does state that you have the right to bear arms. So they got it. It's written down. It's ours. We got it. And people also love the basis behind it. It wasn't about

hunter and gatherer like some people say. It was about look, if our government has guns then we have guns so that we can always overtake our government should we need to. Now in the world of tanks and aircraft and everything, of course that doesn't hold, but that's the part that people like. They don't want to give their government the power that the people

don't have. That is a wonderful philosophy but it's kind of outgrown itself. It has outgrown itself in the United States of America in 2016, but if the shit hits the fan, and it absolutely could, we are one natural disaster away from chaos at all times. And that is something that has happened all throughout human history. There have been gigantic asteroidal impacts. There have been super volcanoes. There have been tidal waves. There's been a lotidal impacts. There have been super volcanoes.

There have been tidal waves. There's been a lot of shit that happens, then all of a sudden chaos. I mean, we saw what happened with Katrina. Katrina hit, and there was looting and rioting and chaos. And people have the right to defend themselves and protect themselves in that kind of situation when people go crazy. Then you factor in the possibility of government going crazy. That is just as much of a possibility. It's happened all throughout history.

It's happening in Russia right now. Russia is being run by fucking gangsters, and not the Chael Sonnenkamp. Sure. A different kind of gangster. Right. I mean, Putin is a murderer. He's a tyrant, for sure.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean, I'm not... And he's an effective leader yeah yeah for for all the wrong but yeah he is effective yeah uh i i just uh i think there is an argument that when people have ultimate power they also have massive potential for corruption we see that today with the clinton uh campaign this this this nonsense nonsense with the fucking emails and the classified data that she had inadvertently or purposely sent through email. And then the difference between her take on it and what the FBI's take on it was.

Like, there's clearly lying going on. There's clearly corruption going on. There's clearly people protecting her. And that kind of corruption where it wouldn't apply to you and it wouldn't apply to me, we would go to jail. Sure. If we sent those same emails, if we were involved in the transfer of top secret information through erroneous fucking pathways or however the fuck she did it. And I don't exactly know the specifics. or however the fuck she did it, and I don't exactly know the specifics,

but if we did any of those things, we would most likely be convicted, and we would most likely at least get fined a massive amount of money, but more likely go to jail. Sure, Martha Stewart went to jail just for lying to the FBI. Now Hillary's in that same jam, the FBI saying they didn't look into it. That whole thing is very fugazi. That whole thing is very corrupt, and I think that Comey at the FBI is a reasonable guy, or however I tend to believe him. But this was never a fair shake.

Obama stays out of the whole thing. Then he finally comes in. Loretta Lynch finally comes in and says, well, we're going to honor whatever the FBI says. And then four days later, the FBI drops the news. It's like, guys, this has been going on for a year. I'll tell you something else, Joe. You know who looks weak in the whole thing is the FBI. These guys are supposed to be great.

We put 40 people on the Hillary Clinton case. To put that in perspective for the listeners, four people were assigned to Al Capone. Ten times the amount, and it took them one year of having the evidence to make a ruling. I mean, come on. That's weak. The same thing is going on with ISIS. We're supposed to have this great military. No offense to the people that serve, but offense to the people that are handcuffing our military. ISIS, when I first heard about them,

for the very first time, was 200 members strong. Now they are 4,000 strong, and we still can't stop these guys, and we're supposed to be the best? Look, of course we could. We just don't, but it makes us look weak. That would not happen in Russia. Nobody attacks the Russians. If you attack Putin, you will be fighting Putin right now. No permission, no Congress, no BS. You want to go, you're going to go with Russia. And that's why nobody does. I think you're right. I think you're definitely right. And when there's direct evidence of Clinton's statements versus the FBI statements, Clinton saying, I only used one device. FBI saying, she used multiple devices. No, Clinton saying that

no classified or top secret documents were shared or leaked. FBI saying, hundreds. Hundreds. Hundreds. And deleted. Yeah. It's all fucked. It's all fucked. But that's corruption. That stinks. And this is not the kind of corruption that we need to be absolutely terrified of, like they're going to come and

steal our children and take all our money away and fucking shoot anybody who talks back. That's not that level of corruption. But it's a slippery slope with any corruption. If the laws don't apply to you because your name is Hillary Clinton, but the law applies to Chael Sonnen or Joe Rogan, that's nonsense. That's not the world that we want. That's a real problem when someone is outside of the law or the law respects them in a different way than it respects you.

That's not good. And that's why the Second Amendment exists. The Second Amendment exists to stop fuckery because people are crazy. And when people say, whoa, it's about muskets and it's not. It's not. Whoa, it's for a militia. It's only the guns. No, no, no. It's to prevent this. Well, it's for a militia. It's only the guns are for...

No. No, no. It's to prevent this kind of shit from getting completely out of hand. It's prevent the government from taking over and allow people to form a resistance. Sure. To be armed. Yeah. And so many people think that Trump's crazy and he's going to lead us into war.

It's like, guys, sometime read the art of war. Just read the art of war because the best general never fires a shot ever putin hasn't had a whip a lot of ass now putin will kill you if he needs to but he hasn't had he took over a part of the ukraine didn't kill a person he rolled in he said he wanted it and now he has a part of the ukraine okay that's leadership he aligned but it's i'm not saying this is good but that's what a leader does a leader makes this goes in and takes over, and he didn't have to kill anybody. The best general never fires a shot. Donald Trump isn't planning to go and whip people.

He's planning to make people think he will whip them, which is why he's not going to get us into wars. And people – a lot of people don't see that. And Trump can't come out and reveal this big curtain where people go, oh, well, the whole thing's a joke. He can't do that. So he's got to stand this ground, take people saying he's crazy, hope that enough people get it to vote him into office, but that's all he's doing. He's going around saying it's our way or the highway.

We're the economic power. We're the military power. We do things right, and you're going to do it our way, and we're not going to do a lot of compromising. When you align like that, you look at North Korea, all the craziest they do there. They scare everybody for years. We've paid them a bunch of money.

Bill Clinton paid them $8 billion. George Bush paid them $6.5 billion. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican. You're paying these knuckleheads for making strides. We've paid them a bunch of money. Bill Clinton paid them $8 billion. George Bush paid them $6.5 billion. I mean, it doesn't matter if you're a Democrat or Republican. You're paying these knuckleheads for making strides. They've never fired a shot. They just understand the art of war. Talk tough. Whoever talks tough is the toughest.

On the playground, everybody listening to this had a tough guy in school. Hey, who's the toughest guy in school? Everybody listening to this right now can go, oh, I'll tell you, that guy. They all know. I'd ask them a follow-up question. Did you ever see him get in a fight? And all of them were going no, no. Who'd fight him? He was the toughest guy in school. Whoever talks the toughest

is the toughest. And those rules don't change from the playground to the octagon to the White House. They don't change. The best general never fires a shot. When I was in high school the toughest kid beat the fuck out of everybody. His name was Frank Peace He was fucking huge

He was most likely on steroids He was a gigantic fuck He was so terrifying My sister dated him for a while No! Yeah, yeah Imagine having your sister date the toughest guy in the school Oh, he was a gorilla

He used to be able to Remember those universal machines? Remember they had the stack? Yeah What was the stack? Like 250 or something like that? He could bench the whole stack like several times and everybody was like whoa he does the stack he does that he had giant stretch marks all over his tits and he was like 17 with

these things it's most likely on steroids pretty sure well i ran into him many many years later he's a great guy by the way and um he was quite a bit smaller when i ran into him many years later like oh where's the rest of you? But, you know, that was back when people really didn't even understand steroids. There wasn't a lot of people on them back in those days. But my point being, toughest kid in my school beat the fuck out of everybody. He went to a college party and beat the fuck out of a bunch of guys. That'll do it.

That'll carry your reputation. That'll carry over. He was a brick shithouse, that kid. But, yeah. But I understand what you're saying. Sure. This Donald Trump thing, which is interesting to me, is that what he's done is he's gotten the media to work for him. Because he found a weakness in what they do. What they like to do is they like to talk shit.

What the media likes to do is they like to find something that they feel like is going to be embarrassing. Or something that they can focus on and really drone on and on about it. But with him, he owns it. And it's similar to what you were talking about with promoting yourself and promoting yourself as a fighter. He's promoting himself in a lot of the ways, the same way kind of that you would do. I mean, what he's doing is he's not apologizing. He's saying provocative things. And because of that, would do. I mean, what he's doing is he's not apologizing. He's saying provocative things.

And because of that, he gets way more airtime than anybody else by far. I mean, it's not even close. All the other guys in the Republican candidates, they were all playing second fiddle. They were all trying to catch up. They were even trying to do his thing. Like Marco Rubio was making fun of his hands. What does he do? He turns into a big dick joke.

He's like, I'm fine in that department. Don't worry. I'm fine in that department. And everybody's like, he's owning it. He's talking about his dick. This is amazing. And it got him even more fans. I think people are tired of what the game is right now.

What the game is right now is a guy gets on a podium, he says a bunch of things that you know and I know will fucking never happen. Obama, everybody was hoping change, hoping change. He's going to close Guantanamo Bay. He's going to get us out of Iraq. He's going to get us out of Afghanistan.

We're still in Iraq. We're still in Afghanistan. Guantanamo Bay is still here. No hope, no change. Drones are everywhere. We're going to let whistleblowers off the hook. we're gonna we're gonna let whistleblowers off the hook bullshit cracks down on whistleblowers more than anybody more military than george w bush okay more more attacks on free press than any republican republican president but because

he does it under the guise of being on the left, people don't look at the cold, hard reality of his actions. Yeah. So it's a bullshit fucking scam. So this guy comes along and he plays it like a pro wrestler. He plays it like a reality TV star. He plays it like a guy who is savvy about the media. He's been working the media his whole career. And it's working.

Yeah. No, I love it. And to your point, he is running his presidential campaign the way Vince McMahon would promote a WrestleMania. Yes. And he's getting attention. He's evoking an emotion. Front Row Brian actually told me, who's watching right now, he keeps texting me, quick shout

out to him. I'm stealing his line, but he's right about that. He's evoking an emotion. He's getting people involved. He understands that ratings are what get you on TV. He understands he can save money for that. He's also refused the emotion. He's getting people involved. He understands that ratings are what get you on TV. He understands he can save money for that. He's also refused to take donations. He doesn't want to be bought.

He wants everybody to understand that he's going to go in free and clear and owe nobody anything. But wait a minute. He just requested a bunch of donations. He took it back. But Joe, he was very candid about it. He said, I have been funding this myself. And he said, and frankly, I haven't gotten a very good return. I'm funding this myself so everybody knows I'm not bought and sold,

that I haven't made deals, that I'm going to go in there and actually represent the people. I'm going to take a pay cut. I'm going to go do a job I don't want to do because it's a job I think I need to do. That message didn't get out. And he said, look, I'm losing in the polls to somebody who is bought and paid for because she's got more money than me. You people don't seem to understand this message of me going in there, not own anybody anything. I haven't got an investment on my return. And I'm thinking about taking it back and open it up to donation. But he was very honest

about it. He's very candid. I thought he had like an emergency drive. He did. And he just pulled it back? No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is he had the emergency drive, but that was interesting too. He said, I want to raise $10 million in two days, and by the way, if you guys give me $10 million, I'll throw another $10 million in on myself. So he ended up matching. He put $20 million. Then he did it again. It was such a success, he did it again. Well, it's a weird situation for the Democrats, because if Hillary did get indicted, and if Hillary did wind up getting convicted, or they punished her in any way, it's over.

That side's over, right? So who else is there? Bernie Sanders? They don't want that. Nobody wants that. That's just crazy old socialist who's been running Vermont. A lot of people think she's picking up Elizabeth Warren as her running mate. Now, I don't think so.

I think she's cognizant enough to know that America does not want to look sexist, but it in fact is. That America's going to have a hard time putting a female as the commander-in-chief of the military who doesn't come out and endorse anybody, but if you talk to them privately, they do not want to be led by a woman. That's a reality. I think she's smart enough to know they damn sure don't want to be led by two. But of course, we'd never say that publicly, right? We don't want to look sexist as a country, even though we are.

If Hillary wants to put the nail in the coffin of this campaign, she puts Bill as her VP. She does not have an ego that would allow her to do such. And I think she might make the error of putting Elizabeth Warren in. Man, that would be a weird thing, because Elizabeth

Warren pretended that she was Native American. Yeah. She lied. Straight up lie. And that's racist. There's no way around that. It's cultural appropriation. That's a big thing today.

Yeah, there's no way around that one. She sure did. And then what? She commented on her eye. Well, my eyes look this way. Yeah, it got bad. It got bad. And Trump, instead of saying it the way you used to, well, you know, you lied about me.

He calls her Pocahontas. Yeah, Pocahontas. Everybody says that's racist. He says it more. Well, he calls, you lied about me. He calls her Pocahontas. Yeah, Pocahontas. Everybody says that's right. He says it more. Well, he calls Bernie Sanders Crazy Bernie. He calls Hillary Lion Hillary. Crooked. Yeah, Crooked Hillary. Lion Crooked Hillary.

That's smart. I mean, look what he does by labeling them in that way. Little Marco. Yeah. Lion Ted. That's great. It's WrestleMania. He gimmicked them all.

Yes, he did. He gave them all a gimmick. Well, he juked the system. The system was based on deception in the first place, and they had this whole standard operation, the way they would run things. They would all do it the exact same way. And he came in and exposed all the flaws in the game. Yeah.

And he's not done. And he's not backing off. And everybody keeps waiting for him to back off. He hasn't even started because it's not the real presidential candidate. I mean, it's not the real presidential candidate i mean it's not the real campaign yet the real campaign begins once it is absolutely hillary and absolutely him and it gets boiled down like right now we're in july when it gets to be august and then september that's when shit's going to really start flying and you know it's going to be interesting to see what he uses to

try to attack her and what she used to try to attack him and how both they're going to they're both going to get damaged in the process. And our system is going to be damaged in the process. And that's something that I think everybody is kind of cognizant of. When you destroy someone who is on their way to become the commander in chief, you kind of weaken the whole nation because that person becomes the like. weaken the whole nation because that person becomes the like look if hillary won say if the elections were tomorrow and the fbi thing happened today and then she wins tomorrow and everybody's going to be like we know she did something that we would have been punished for how is this is it weakens the position and it weakens it in the eyes of the world too i'm sure it does it does when we talk about vp pics i'm not sure that they've got it right the media thinks they've got it narrowed

down to four guys, and they added one more for Trump on Trump's side. Christie and Gingrich and Pence, they've got five. I don't think they're right. I think that he will go outside the box. He's not going to put a woman in there just to put a vagina on the ticket and think he's going to do well like McCain did with Palin. I think he's going to bring in somebody that's either got Admiral or Colonel or General next to their name. I think that it is very important for him to look powerful and be powerful. And I think he wants a military guy. And I think that's who he admires. I don't think

he admires politicians. I think he admires soldiers. That would be interesting if he did that. And that would be a huge step up if he did do that. And in terms of like how public responded to him, because if he's like the big terms of how public responded to him. Because if he's like the big showman, but he's got some very serious guy with some real world experience as his second guy, that would be really interesting. To me, it's just disturbing that we're down to a reality TV star and an old lady trying to get back at her husband for a blowjob he got in the 90s. Sure. The whole thing is just disturbing.

Bill Clinton treated the White House like it was a frat, i will forever appreciate that i just will i just will i mean he he was a mess he was all these different he was unapologetic he was the master liar remember the divisible and the demon not denominator and he was going in all these circles and before you're done you're just flat out confused oh man that oxford degree really sent me in circles i guess we give this guy a pass he's an odd dude dude, man. He's a very odd dude. And he's still swinging. He's still swinging out there for his wife. Yeah.

See, that's another one, though, Joe, if you don't mind me interrupting. If he would have just told the truth back then, just used the truth on his side, it would have all been done. If he would have just said, man, I'll sleep with anything in the world except her. If he would have just done that, it'd be all over. Instead, he started getting crazy. If he would have hit him with that line. It's the same thing with Trump right now. If he would have just said, look, I think that America should have a long leash,

but attack to that leash is a big old bomb, and this is how we're going to do it, and we'll light the thing if we have to. It's hard to deal with. It's really hard to deal with. I got all of this, this philosophy from you, giving me your take on how Michael Richards should have handed the comedy store. When you said he should have come out, he should have said, here's my problems. I'm not a funny comic. I was self

conscious. You guys made me feel bad. I wanted to hurt your feelings. Had nothing to do with race. I tried to hurt your feelings. And you're right. It all would have gone away because we go yeah, well that is what happened. It is what happened and that's precisely what Charlie Sheen did. When Charlie Sheen came out and he said, look, this is how I roll.

I smoke rocks. I pay girls to leave. I don't pay them to have sex. And everybody was like, what the fuck? What do you say to that? You can't say anything. And everybody was hashtag tiger blood. It was all over.

I mean, he became like, until the HIV thing came. That put a damper. But you're right. Sheen was the original. Sheen was the original. Sheen was the original that sat in the hot seat. Everybody was waiting for the tearful John Jones-style apology, and it did not come. He was huge because of it. Sheen ended up doing a comedy or an appearance tour or whatever.

He did $7.5 million in tickets on a two-week tour because of that one sit-down where he refused to apologize. I like to party. He didn't even have like to party he didn't even have any comedy he didn't know what to do so he went to these things coked up thinking he was just gonna power through it with charisma and people were booing and people and he's like hey i got your money i already got your money which is fucking crazy to yell out of people that have bought your tickets but then he adjusted he got smart he brought guys like russell peters in to sit down with him and interview him.

And they actually worked out a routine. And it actually became an entertaining show towards the last leg of the tour. But his ability to step up and say, hey, I like Coke. I like to smoke Coke. I get together. I get a bunch of girls. I pay them money. I fuck them and then they leave.

And everybody's like, well. Because that's what everybody's always avoided. It's like to catch someone. Oh, he's doing drugs. Right. Like, oh, he's getting prostitutes. The cover-up is always worse than the crime. Again, you go back to John Jones.

John Jones gets tagged in that coke thing. He pops on Fox, and the woman asks him why he did it. And John said, well, you know, and he tried to dance around. He had to put his pocket in line. I did it to get high. Next question, stupid. Yeah. That's how you, it's, yeah, it was fun.

I was at a party. It's having a good time. I didn't know you were going to test me. That's the answer. But use the truth on your side. It just shuts everybody down. And it's endearing and refreshing. Well, this current thing that he's on right now, I wonder if he can do that with this.

I mean, I wonder if he knows what it was that he took. You know, I mean, I just don't know. I'm really confused by this one because I don't know how many different options there could have been where these are the two things that he tested positive for. I don't know how many options there could have been other than him taking that because he was getting off steroids. But that doesn't even seem to make sense because he had been tested much more recently or before that, close to that, and he didn't have that in his system, and he didn't have steroids in his system. But to Victor Conte's credit, Victor Conte did question John Jones' testosterone levels and epitestosterone levels.

On his carbon isotope test. I remember. And they were Fugazi. What could cause that? All you're going to do is confuse people when you start talking about that. And frankly, you can't get doctors to totally agree. Even USADA with their highest scientists and everything.

There's some confusion there. There was something Fugazi going on, but it wasn't enough. It was just enough to start rumors, not to actually take him in and go against him. But you glossed over what I opened the show with, and I thought it was going to be one of the high points of the whole podcast. I didn't know if you had to do it. No, not the coffee. I didn't know if you had to do it, so I don't mean to go back to it.

But the point that this test that we're all talking about is June 16th, and there's got to be another shoe that's getting ready to drop. Now, whether that comes back hot or whether it comes back clean, we don't know, but there's no way that USADA's last time testing a guy for a fight that was supposed to take place this last Saturday was June 16th. There's just no way. They've got

to be at least another test out there, and possibly two. Brock Lesnar, they test him every other day for a while. They tested him five times in the first two weeks. That was in the first two weeks. Yeah, like eight times in total. Cyborg, same thing. They did the same thing to her. They tested her a other day for a while. They tested him five times in the first two weeks. That was in the first two weeks. Yeah, like eight times in total. Cyborg, same thing. They did the same thing to her.

They tested her a ton of times. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, this is just speculation, right? We really won't know, and I'm sure we'll find out shortly. Sure. Because those tests take a while to get the results back, because they're very, very thorough. And if he tested June 16th, you've got to assume big, high-profile UFC 200 and a guy who's already tested positive for something before.

So they're going to be sneaking around trying to catch him. What was the crazy story where he was hiding a ring? Is that true? I wasn't there. Tell the story. All right, let's tell the story. Usada came in, and again, this is... By the way, this is alleged.

Yeah, this is just the story. The story. But this is from some of his teammates, UFC fighters that claim they were there, and that doesn't make it true, but here's the story. Might be guys tired of him beating the fuck out of them, too. Yeah, that's right. All right, all the disclaimers aside, let's get down to the entertainment side of this. So, Usada rolls in to Jackson's gym to do a test on John Jones. And there was only

some coaches in there. And John, there was like five people there at the time. So he can see them coming. Where they parked, he can see them coming. So they don't know what to do with him. They hide him underneath the cage. John Jones hides under the cage. They tell John, we don't know where he is. And this is before we were enrolled in the program. He did not need to disclose his whereabouts. At the same time, if they show up and find you, you must test, vandalize this situation. You must test. They can't find you. You didn't have to test back then. So anyway, he hides under the ring. They say, well, where is he? He's supposed to, you know, this is his gym. They said, well, how would I know where he is? So instead of leaving like

they thought they would do, they take a seat. Well, there's like eight hours left in the business day. They don't ever leave. However long, six, eight hour time frame, John's under the cage the entire time. So people are coming and going. The whole thing is finally they shut the lights off and go to lock the doors. Now John can come out. Well, USADA found out about that and they wanted, they didn't do this. They wanted to get a warrant and go under that ring under the theory that at some point in that 6-8 hour span he would have had to pee where they wanted to go under forensically

and collect that urine, that's how upset they were that they had been had now I realize that we're saying all the nice stuff, that happened how long was the time frame and all that, that part's subject they were coming after him after that, when they found out that they had been That happened. How long was the time frame and all that? That part's subject. It's a great story, even if it didn't happen. They were coming after him after that.

When they found out that they had been doing anything they hate. They don't like when people say their test doesn't work, and they don't like being duped. And they came after. Remember when I predicted Rumble Jones will not happen? Yes, you did. That's because I had that story, and I knew who Sada was looking for him. I knew they had boots on the ground in Albuquerque waiting for him to leave the club, waiting to get him for anything.

I was armed with that. I've never told that side. That's why I predicted that fight wouldn't happen. I knew they were after him. And this is before we had to do the whereabouts like we do now. Back then it was just random, and they were just waiting. They were just waiting for the right time, and they were going to grab him. Wow.

If they got a warrant to check underneath the... How would they prove it was his pee? There's a lot of problems. Fighters are dirty. There's a lot of problems. Just to show support, they could all just whip their dicks out and pee underneath the cage. Sure. If you really love the guy,

just pollute the water. Or better yet, Joe, you go under and you clean underneath the cage. That would also solve the problem. Yeah, it turns out John's pregnant. Look. Right. Get under there and... Yeah, it was just a mess, but yeah, that's...

Could be anybody's urine. There you go. Yeah. Yeah, it was. I mean, that's a great story, though. It's one of the great all-time avoiding a drug test stories. Sure. Maybe the best, right?

Yeah. You came on here to promote a submission grappling thing. We haven't even got to it. Yeah, we got a big thing coming up. Sunday. This coming Sunday. Yeah, July 17th, live and free on Flow Combat. Now, you've got to be a member, right?

That's the trick. Sell to it. But you're not buying a pay-per-view window. You just get a monthly subscription. There's content everywhere. What is the website, Flow Combat? FlowCombat.com. FLO? That's right. FLO Combat. Thank you for correcting me on that. EBI rules,

Eddie Bravo Invitational rules. They'll go for eight minutes. There's no score. You either find a submission or you don't. If you don't, you go into an overtime format. Now, you know how EBI works. And this is the biggest promotion of the whole thing, isn't that somebody's going to go out and compete. And I got to do some grappling since i've been retired but we all we always had a clause that if you could eat up the clock you got to draw nobody loses well that's a victory sometimes when you're in over your head you're out there wrestling for a draw when i had gavow i was out there wrestling for a draw under ebi rules somebody's going to tap so when you factor in you've got jake shields taking on chris lytle one of those guys is going to tap.

When you've got Vinny Magulience, maybe the best grappler there is right now. Magalace. He always corrects me on that, too. I feel like it's tomato-tomato. Vinny Magulience is how I say it. Vinny Magulience, all right. He's going to be taking on Ronnie Marks. King Mo got hurt.

He hurt his neck. Ronnie Marks has now stepped in. He fought Yoel Romero. King Mo hurt his neck? Yeah, King Mo hurt his neck. King Mo didn't pull out. I pulled him off the card. I found out Mo got hurt. He hurt his neck. Ronnie Marks has now stepped in. He fought Yoel Romero. King Mo hurt his neck? Yeah, King Mo hurt his neck. King Mo didn't pull out. I pulled him off the card. I found out he was hurt. It happened in his fight with Phil Davis. And he's one of the main training partners for Robbie Lawler. And he hasn't even been able to train with Robbie.

I ran into Laborio. You want to correct me on that name too? Laborio. Thank you. Ran into Laborio over the weekend at the Super Show. And he said, man, King Mo can't move. He just doesn't want to pull out. Herniated disc? Yeah, something like that. I don't have all the details, but I got a hold of Mo.

I said, is this true? He said, yeah. God, it's so common in grappling. So many guys have fucked up necks. Yeah, we got to pull that one. So, Hany Marks is in. He fought UL Romero, Aaron Simpson. Do you remember those?

He just signed with World Series of Fighting. So, Hany Marks is in. He fought UL Romero, Aaron Simpson. Do you remember those? He just signed with World Series of Fighting. So, Hany's in against Vinny. And then the biggest one, the absolute biggest one that wasn't meant to be, but this is the one that's got my phone ringing. Rico Rodriguez is coming back. Wow. After all these years, he's going to take on Fabiano Scherner, my coach. He's going to take on my coach, and one of them is going to tap.

They will not leave until someone taps. Fabiano Scherner, who also fought in the UFC back in the day, he's an excellent Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner. Yeah, that's interesting, man. Rico's a bad motherfucker, man. His ground game's very good. He's fantastic. He's fantastic. And then the question with Rico, Joe, you know,

grappling is a gateway into MMA. So now that Rico's all of a sudden back in grappling, that's everybody's big question. Is he coming back to MMA? And he's one of those guys that left the sport on his own. There wasn't that a promoter wouldn't sign him or Dana didn't want him or Pride wouldn't put him under contract. He had those personal – he did whatever. But he left on his own. It's kind of the way Sean Shirk left.

Sean just one day wasn't fighting anymore, but it took like two years until the announcement came. It just makes me wonder, is Rico coming back? And I think that that's pretty cool if he is. It's very rare where a world champion returns. That's speculation, but we'll see what happens. Well, it's an interesting matchup either way. And so this is something you're doing for the first time on Flow Combat, and you said that they have to become a member.

What does that entail? Giving up your email address or something? Yeah, you go over, you register at flowcombat.com. I think it's like $15 a month, $14.95. It's a network, though. It's kind of like Fight Pass. There's I think it's like 15 bucks a month, $14.95. It's a network though. It's kind of like Fight Pass. There's content, there's behind the scenes, it's a whole network. So you're not going to buy a pay-per-view window that then shuts off. You become a member. Now you can turn that off the next day. You can turn it off at the end of the month. You're going to buy for the

month. So you get an entire package. They've got a ton of members. These are real successful guys. So it's kind of just to satisfy them. The show's sold. That's completely sold out in Portland. It'll be, in my mind, the biggest grappling event ever. I've done Metamorris. Metamorris was sold out, but they had 700 tickets. This is a lot more tickets.

It's sold out. The only way to watch will be on flowcombat.com. So the guys that are participating are going to have a lot of fun. I did some grappling. I just took on Michael Bisping in a grappling match. Roy Jones was on the card. Kurt Angle was wrestling. It was this crazy card.

We wrestled in Arizona. The week after he beat Anderson. This just happened. Really? But nobody came. See, people were like you. They didn't even know what was going on. Oh, I had heard about Roy Jones boxing some fan.

Fought a fan. The guy was 5-3 in MMA, 2-0 in amateur boxing. And he gave Roy a match. He gave Roy a match. Tell Roy he figured him3 in MMA, 2-0 in amateur boxing. And he gave Roy a match. He gave Roy a match. Until Roy figured him out. Boom, boom, shut him off. Well, this is after Roy had been knocked out brutally just a couple of months ago. Uh-huh.

I think in Russia or Germany that fight was, yeah. Yeah, that was awful. Yeah, Roy's staying busy, though, you know. I just hate seeing him take punishment because he was such a great fighter. He was so good. It's just so sad to see him now. His body just looks doughy. He doesn't look good.

You know, he's still an excellent commentator, though. I mean, it's not affecting the way he talks. Right. That is true. Yeah, it was good to see Roy. But the point was, you know, you had a limited amount of people there. Right. So, in grappling events.

And then Metamorris, now, or at least for the last one, they've got a show coming up, too. But the last one they had, we wrestled in front of nobody. I was kind of into that, but the point is, you know, grapplers like people there. I just kind of like that opposite feel from going to a packed arena to that feel. Had more of a practice room atmosphere. At any rate, with Kumite, now that you're correcting all my words,

is that what I'm trying to say? Yeah. This one sold out. So the grapplers that are going to wrestle, they're going to have a roaring audience, and it's a rare thing. Well, the Eddie Bravo rules, Eddie Bravo Invitational rules, are without a doubt the best rules because they force guys into bad situations. So what it is is after the fight goes to the—would you have eight minutes? That's right. After it goes to the eight-minute time difference and there's a draw,

what happens is you put guys in bad positions. So just like in wrestling, one guy will start on the bottom. In jiu-jitsu, what they're doing with Eddie Bravo rules is one guy will start on your back or he'll start in a position called spider web, which means you're defending. You get the guy on the bottom is defending against an arm bar. The guy on the top is inside control with the arm hooked and controlling the leg. So it's a bad spot to be in if you're on the bottom, and it's a bad spot if be in if you're on the bottom. And it's a bad spot if a guy obviously

has your back. So by putting guys in those situations, you allow the fighter to try to work from a really bad spot to try to get a tap. And then you switch places. So if you start on my back and you tap me, then I have at least an opportunity to try to tap you. And if you escape, then you wind up winning the whole thing. But it could be that you escape and I escape and you escape and I escape. And we see a lot of those matches where it's like down to the wire.

And if that's the case, then you count up the amount of time spent in control. So if it takes you 10 seconds to escape, but it takes me 30 seconds to escape, you would win because you escape quicker. Right.

That's exactly right. It's a great way to figure out how to make grappling matches exciting. I talked to Eddie before we went into this, and I said, hey, listen, we're doing it. What are you doing? We're going to fall on the same dates. How do you want to do this? Let's not get in a battle with each other. He goes, no, no, just the opposite.

He said, I want these guys to have somewhere to wrestle. He said, but Chael, do this. Take my rules. Call it EBI. That puts me up. He goes, but do it. And he had a great point, Joe. And here's what his point was.

He said, everybody that has a grappling event wants to make up their own rules. He said, but as an industry, for the gym owners, for the guys that are going into the gym and they're training every day, they need to be able to train the same way. The coach needs to be able to have a stopwatch just like he does MMA. Five-minute rounds, you do three of them. If you're in a main event or title fight, you do five of them. You go to a basketball court, you go volleyball. It's the same universal rules.

He said, for an industry, we need to be all teammates, all no-gi jiu-jitsu. They need to be able to train the same way so the coach can run a practice. And he doesn't have to go, you guys train for Abu Dhabi over here, and you guys train them for the IBJJF over here. So I thought, Eddie, you're right. If us promoters can all get together and unify some rules, like the unified rules of MMA, as an industry, the trickle-down, which is the gyms, we can get this thing figured out, and then we can start to have a hybrid.

And Eddie's rules really are quite perfect. You know, he calls them the most gangster rules out there, but he's right. I talked to Vinny. I talked to some other guys that I ever talked to. I talked to Salo Ribeiro. They're going, look, it's EBI. That's how you find it. If you want to know who the best is, you've got to go EBI rules.

Yeah, it really is the best, and it stops all EBI. That's how you find it. If you want to know who the best is, you've got to go EBI rules. Yeah, it really is the best, and it stops all these draws. These draws are brutal. I mean, you have that Polaris match. You've got all these amazing matchups, and then Gary Tonin versus Paul Harris. Draw. Right. How the fuck are you having draws?

Everything is a draw. Draw, draw, draw. You can't have people get excited about draws. They don't get excited about draws. It's not fun. I talked to Halleck about that, and Halleck goes, I do have one problem with that. He said, guys are more, I can get them to wrestle more.

Guys kind of like that clause, and you've got to have a time limit somewhere, and we don't quite know how to figure out the overtime yet, he said. But the problem I'm running into is I want a champion. He said, and it's hard to build a division and decide who's the next number one contender if you don't have an architecture in place where a guy advances through a bracket if you will you have to have you have to have a winner right yeah yeah that is a giant issue with uh everybody else's rule set i just think that if you look at submission grappling and especially people that have a problem with the quote-unquote violence of mma the submission aspect of it is beautiful to watch.

It's exciting. It's dynamic. You watch someone get choked out. It's crazy. I mean, it's really interesting. It's fun. It's an exciting part of martial arts. And it's something that guys can do when they retire from fighting. It's something that a lot of people that don't want to get involved in MMA, but guys like the Mendez brothers or Gary Tonin, he's actually probably going to do MMA eventually, but all these super talented grapplers, it gives them an opportunity to show their stuff. Yeah, certainly. I love that you know who Tonin is, by the way. He's so exciting.

I've had him on. Oh, yeah, Tonin on here. Yeah, he's been on. Yeah, he's fantastic, but you've got so many guys like this. If you dangle that big carrot and all of a sudden you're just signing the most popular and the most famous guys, it's kind of tough. I really like the Olympic model or even the NCAA model. The best guy always steps forward, but the best guy a lot of times has a hard time getting his chance.

Promoters want guys that are going to sell. It's like, let's put that on hold. If you're a good promoter, you'll figure out how to sell. You just will. If you're a promoter, use Dana's term, you'll bring in the bells and whistles. But let's give everybody a chance, the same way the Olympics Games does. Anybody that thinks they're best, raise your hand, let's get in here and figure it out. Now, we're going to have to have a lot of events, we're going to have to work, but let's get a system in place and let's figure it out.

Boom. Boom. One set of rules. EBI. What is your event called? It is called Submission Underground. It can be found at flowcombat.com. Live and free to all members. What is this video? Let's play this video and let's end on this. Oh, let's play it. Leave that handsome guy.

Let's end on this video. And anything more to tell people? You're sunninchch on Instagram. What is it? Chael Sunin on Twitter? Absolutely. Facebook, all that jazz? Yes.

Appreciate it. Thank you for the point. My pleasure, brother. Bruce Buffer was going to announce this show. He fell a week ago. He blew his ACL out. Blew his ACL. Can't fly.

Yeah. He was doing a lip sync competition. Yes. And apparently he got up, he gutted it out, and he tried to keep going, and then he tipped over sideways. Yes. And fell over again. That was hilarious. Sad out, and he tried to keep going, and then he tipped over sideways. Yes. And fell over again. And it was hilarious.

Sad, sad. Want Bruce to get better. Yeah. Very funny, though. Very funny. Unfortunately, this is the second time he blew his knee out doing that, too, by the way. He blew his knee out. That jump that he does, it's time!

When he does that, he leaps in the air. He blew his ACL out doing that once, too. I watched him limp out of the ring. This is his second ACL surgery. So it's a fucking hard job, folks. Okay? Alright. Chael Sonnen, ladies and gentlemen, and we'll end with this. Chael Sonnen, Submission

Underground. Again, Flo... Combat. FloCombat.com. And it is this... Sunday, July 17th, live and free for all members. And we'll tweet it. It'll be on my Twitter, so I'll let you guys know in advance. Thank you, brother. Always great to have you on, and anytime you want to come on again,

open invitation. I appreciate that. Thank you, pal. Let's play it. America, I am Chael P. Sonnen, and I am here to speak to you about the pathetic state of affairs in today's grappling competition. When grapplers come, when promotions bring these guys, they're not sending their best.

They're boring. They're boring. They're dull. They're not risk takers. I am going to change all of that. No more 20 minute matches where it can end in a draw. What kind of atmosphere ends in a draw? This is anti-competition. One set of rules.

Somebody must win and somebody must lose. Guys, this is America. We don't go to draws. We play for keeps. We play for somebody to get their hand raised. Guys, if you don't know, you damn sure should know. On July 17th, Submission Underground is invading Portland, Oregon's Roseland Theater. Now, tickets are sold out, but you've still got a chance.

Go to your desktop. Grab your smartphone. Send a pigeon. Send a fax if you have to. Let your friends know. Don't be left in the dark. Monday morning around the water cooler. Don't be the only person that didn't witness history. Go to flowcombat.com. God bless America. Good night, everybody.

That's a genius right there.