The Joe Rogan Experience - #826 - Justin Wren

Episode Date: July 27, 2016

Justin Wren is an American MMA fighter. Justin is currently fighting in Bellator to help raise more awareness for helping the Pygmy people of the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Two one and we're live Justin Wren. How are you sir? I'm great. What's going on brother? Man, I'm excited to be back here. You out there kicking ass digging wells all the above? Trying yeah How many fights have you had now back in Bellator? Only two but I haven't been back since the first or second one. So this is What are you yeah you? Were here before your first one right which was like you had a long break yeah it's five five years and two months wow and i hadn't even really trained any um at that point like uh i was i was uh just doing the wells and going to congo and then uh

got back into fighting and only had a little bit of time to train but it was it was uh it was okay but how much time did you have before your first fight um i think actually whenever i was here with you i uh i i fibbed a little where i said uh it was a little longer because i didn't know if my opponent was gonna watch or or whatever but uh my my fight camp got cut in half um i was traveling traveling traveling the book was getting ready to come out and other stuff and trying to write the book and prepare and trying to figure all that out where we were just talking before we got on about just life stuff and scheduling it and everything. And I had the book and then Congo and then, um, telling people about it and then also training for a fight. And I didn't know how to balance those real well, but, uh, I planned 12 weeks. All of a sudden Congo corruption took me to Congo for, for three weeks at the beginning so it cut it down to nine weeks and then whenever i got back or while i was

there i found out they were moving the fight up on me three weeks um and so it cut my camp down to about six seven weeks so six seven weeks after being off for more than five years yeah and i had trained a few times before that uh i mean like within the few months before but um but i i think it was probably tops two months uh nine weeks well puss weren't you just like just getting over malaria yeah and i was uh that's that's that's the tough stuff that's uh that's tougher than you fight i feel like fuck man we have one of our guys in Congo that had malaria, one of our drillers, just recently got real sick. It's kind of like constant. It's just part of life there.

Jesus. And it doesn't matter what kind of medication you take before you go out there? I was actually taking, actually our director at Water 4 was taking Malarone. It's like the best anti-malaria pill. I think it's something like seven eight dollars every pill so uh it's it's the creme de la creme of malaria meds and it didn't work on him and then i was actually going into congo um actually i stopped in london did one of those ted talks at a university called warwick university and the day of the talk, I was at a 103 degree temperature,

103.2. And I thought I was pulling out. They thought I was pulling out. We were at the hospital for four, five, six hours. Oh, and dude, even the opportunity to go speak at that

is because their team was all fans of GRE. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, that was the opportunity I got because of this. And it was tough team uh was all fans of jre wow yeah that's awesome yeah that was the opportunity i got because of because of this and i mean it was it was uh it was tough doing the talk and then um

whenever i got into congo they told me i had the flu in london um the doctor's there and that's what i feel like here too there can be tropical medical medicine specialists here and they're probably really great but i i would trust a doctor that's lived in the climate the tropical climate around malaria that's seen it that's treated it that knows all the symptoms well knows to look for it because no one gets it over here yeah and so whenever i got into congo i flew from yeah from work to congo and whenever i landed instead of going straight to the forest uh they took me to like a airstrip at a uh kind of hospital out in the middle of nowhere um so i landed went straight to the hospital and then right there they're like you

don't have the flu you have malaria and i'm like but i i've been i've been in the states i just fought and then i've uh and then in europe like there's no no malaria really there but it was because it's still living inside me there's like um i think there's three strands one to live in your body for three years five years I think the others like 30 to life or something. Hi Yeah, and so it just comes back Yeah, it can like when your body's really run down when you're really tired immune systems low Like training for a fight. Yeah, like training for a fight or right after the fight right after fight went to London spoke

Then I went to Congo So but right after the fight so you recovering from, you go through your six-week fight camp, you have your fight, you run down, and then after the fight you got malaria again? Yes. Now, the sickness, I've had it now three times. Oh my God, man. So at least confirmed twice. The third time they're like, yeah, you have it for sure. But with malaria, you have to get the test, the blood test, while you have a certain degree temperature, like fever. Whenever it's cycling out of your liver and coming out, they have to draw the blood at that exact time to get it. And so that's why I was misdiagnosed four times in the Congo. What a sneaky fucking disease.

Yeah, it's nuts. They're crazy because they'll hide in your liver and then they send them out in your bloodstream like a platoon. They go and wreak havoc and then they retreat right back to the liver. Really? Yeah. They live in your liver. Yeah, that's where they're hiding away for three or five or 30 years.

Oh, my God. And is there any solution? Is there anything they could do? I don't think so. And I had a couple of things that happened where, you know, I started trying to take the anti-malaria meds. But I started getting, it's the only medicine I've ever really reacted to where I get nauseous, start dragging. I've heard it's awful. Yeah, even, you know, I'm pasty white and I get real sun sensitive.

No, I'm pasty white and I get real sun sensitive. I know another medicine called mephiquin, which is I think it's developed in Switzerland or Sweden, supposed to be an awesome new malaria medicine. It's actually the one thing my body kind of responds to. But but it's actually really dangerous because I've seen people that are there for aid work and different stuff. And do they have to they have to retreat if they're there with kids and stuff they move there to the country they're taking off because um because kiddos or even adults have mental breaks that they can't come back from like you can have psychotic episodes for i think they said like if it lasts longer than a week it's probably gonna last like three months if it lasts longer than three months it's probably gonna last forever wow yeah so um so this is from the medication.

Yeah, it's just the medication. And it gives you terrible, terrible nightmares. I almost went to Tanzania this summer. I was going to go on safari. And too many people scared the shit out of me with malaria talk. Yeah. I was going to take my whole family. And I'm like, look, I'll take some malaria medication and feel like shit.

I'm not giving it to my six-year-old. Yeah, yeah. It's not happening. That would be a tough one, yeah. I'm like, look, I'll take some malaria medication and feel like shit. I'm not giving it to my six-year-old. Yeah. It's not happening. That would be. I'm not doing it. Tough one, yeah. Yeah. But that's a real concern, right?

Tanzania has malaria as well, right? Yeah, they do. It's because it's more of a, is that arid climate? It's, they have less there. It's not so tropical there. I've been to Tanzania a couple of times and out in Zanzibar. I mean, it's just, I mean, it wasn't there, but I saw it and it was, I don't know, man. It's a crazy, crazy place because you go from Congo where they have all these tropical diseases

and you go, I don't know, same continent. You just go over a little bit and there's all these other kinds of parasites. Like in Congo, they have very little of a, I believe they're called jiggers with a J. And it's that jiggers. Be very careful when you say that word. Yeah, I will. But jiggers with a J. Sounds wrong.

Yeah. Sounds like you should stop. But they're these crazy parasites that burrow in your feet. Oh, God. And especially kids and elderly. Why and um and especially kids and elderly um and especially my kids and elderly um well honestly i think one reason with poverty uh the kids don't get shoes until they can work and buy them and uh the elderly if they're not able to work and provide for themselves and you know it's harder for them to to get shoes and stuff but also it's just where they live um because on the sandy or it's

either sandy or the clayish um or silty soil that's real red in uganda man it just wreaks havoc on those kids to where they're having to have people come in every week to different villages sit there with uh safety pins and all sorts of these little hooks that they dig into the people's feet and um oh God. Dude, it's painful. Whenever I've seen people getting it done, they're literally putting their... And I've had one in my foot. And it kind of came and gone. It's not that bad when it's just one.

But whenever your whole foot or your whole heel or all the balls of your feet are just covered in... I mean, I'm talking 20, 30, 40, 50 of these parasites. And they're just brutal. So every step you see 40, 50 of these parasites and they're just brutal. So every step you see them when they're walking, they're grimacing. When you're taking it out, they're screaming. God damn Africa. Yeah. Africa is just, it's such a strange, strange continent.

Strange, but man, the people are, are beautiful in their hearts. You know, they're awesome. They're a half or probably more than half. If you're not a good one, you're very terrible. Yeah, that's, well, obviously from the outside, that's what it looks like. Someone like me who tries to pay attention as much as I can, but there's only so much you could actually know about it

without being there, I think, right? Yeah, I think so. I think whenever you get there, I don't know, fall in love with the people and develop the relationships, that's why you can see past all the garbage, all the discomfort. You said that you were held up with corruption, Congo corruption. What happened? So they called me and said um my team uh is actually papa why i call him papa why because like a father figure to me he's the one that had this vision i came alongside him and it's just been it's been awesome to see what's happened and um whenever i went to him uh actually what what was the question you're just asking i don't remember what i say

i said about the corruption. Oh, corruption. Yeah. Yeah. He called me and said, Effie, you got to get back here in like three weeks. And I'm like, what? I'm training for the fight. Like, it's coming up.

And I can't leave now. He says, if you don't come back now, like, I don't know when you can come back. They're going to revoke your visa. They're going to. And I'm like, what for? And so they said, check your passport. They said your visa is expiring in three weeks. And I'm like, what for? And so they said, check your passport. They said, your visa is expiring in three weeks. And I'm like, it shouldn't be expiring. I have a five-year visa. Um, but then you have to come in and out of the country every 11 months, because

if you don't, you lose that five-year visa. And so whenever I left with my wife, literally, um, they, just so that they can get money out of us and steal and, um, be able to ask for 1400, sometimes $2,500 to get a visa like this. Um, you know, they, they write down on your visa when they stamp it, the date they write it in. And so now I know, look every single time they're writing to make sure they write the right date because she backdated it like six months or something like that, or maybe nine months. and then all of a sudden i had to get back there because they're like nope it's going to expire and they thought they gave them actually it might have been less than three weeks i think i

had to go for three weeks is what happened because i had like a week notice i just took off went it's actually the cheapest trip i've ever got there because it was like the last seat i was by the toilets in the back the whole time but it was only like 800 round trip which was incredible that's pretty crazy yeah you can go to africa for 800 bucks yeah that was i i never seen it like that but it was uh yeah it's cool so i went and i mean it helped because that that saved me some money that i was gonna have to pay to try to get out of the corruption and stuff but luckily we went there they didn't think i would just drop and you know know, be there in five, six, seven days. So I took off, went, and we spent three weeks trying to just negotiate with the courts and everything else and say, look, this is, you guys did this. You set me up, all this other stuff, and trying to prove them wrong. They're never wrong.

You know, they're always right. And trying to show them even receipts and pictures. We were showing them pictures from Ben's wedding. He's like my best friend, like a brother, a brother translator for me he's our team leader and um literally we're showing pictures of me at his wedding and luckily it was dated and everything like i was here in the country when you said i had already left four or five months before so um it's just nuts like but the back dating is intentional they do it on purpose so that for me and my wife both, they made it the same date, which was like six months or eight months early. Like we left earlier than what we did.

So from the outside, when you're visiting them, do they think somehow or another that you're wealthy and that they can take advantage of you? They know you're on television. Do they know all that? No. No, we keep that really kind of – when I'm there, I am a – They know you're on television. Do they know all that? I'm teaching the students at the university how to, and I only, I only do like a week or two seminar with them the rest of the time. I'm with my well drilling team and that's my covering. I go there as a quote unquote, a professor.

I probably shouldn't give that up on the internet. Yeah. I mean, people know. No, it's okay. But I, I do that.

Um, because you know, when I go in and really it's not because I'm on TV or anything like that, or they think I have money. They just think anyone that's not Congolese has money. And really, it's not because I'm on TV or anything like that or they think I have money. They just think anyone that's not Congolese has money. And so because that's what they've seen from people coming in and throwing money around. So they want theirs. Yeah.

And a lot of the NGOs are like they have quotas and everything else and they have just a huge budget and they got to spend it and they got to meet those quotas and everything else, and they have just a huge budget, and they've got to spend it, and they've got to meet those quotas. So sometimes they throw it around, and they're not trying to be frugal with the money because it's not theirs. They didn't go out and get it or fundraise it or get a grant for it or anything like that. It's just they've got it to spend, so they'll just give it away. Do the people that live in the Congo, like the Pygmies, do they still get malaria? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is it really common with them?

Yeah, really common. But it's weird because whenever people come, I guess they're more acclimated to it, but it still kills so many. Um, and then, but whenever I get it, they're, they're saying, you know, the doctor here told me because of the malaria meds, it would be better for you to go because you're already getting sick to sick with medicine. Just go get malaria and then get it diagnosed quick enough, get the cure. And now your body's actually going to adapt to it. And the next time you get, it'll be less and less. Wait a minute.

So they told you to get malaria? Yeah. Oh fucking Christ. But I, one of the worst diseases a person can get right yeah but honestly i've seen people even even ben ben's nuts like the year that i was there he had malaria now it's almost killed him before too but he had malaria like three or four times in a year and um and it's just kind of really really common there and uh but once you if you can survive it the first couple times, then they say after that it gets more bearable because you feel it coming. You feel the heat waves coming over you and then you feel the shoulder joint pains and elbows and it just down your whole spine and your finger joints are just throbbing.

Like you can feel your pulse. So it's an inflammation disease? It's a blood parasite disease and it just uh but it causes some inflammation the parasite somehow another does that to your joints yeah and it at least causes a lot of pain i know that and it uh it what was it i lost 33 pounds five days um jesus christ 33 pounds in five days? Yeah, 33 pounds in five days. That's a hell of a diet. Look at that Dr. Oz. Dr. Oz would sell that. I could, yeah, be in here, LA. I got a new LA diet for you guys.

Yeah, you really do. It's the Congo diet. You're getting really hot. Yeah. Makes you hot. So that's a massive sacrifice you're willing to take to do that. And the fact that it exists inside your body for an undetermined state of time, that's pretty wild, man.

It's scary. Yeah, honestly, I feel like I was in a much scarier place personally before I found this, before I found them, before I got given a second family or accepted into a second family and you more scarier because you were depressed because yeah well depressed suicidal thoughts i had for like 10 years just battled it from 13 years old 23 and so um so yeah that that was a lot scarier to me than going to college. Man, you had suicidal thoughts when you were 13.

Yeah, for sure. And, I mean, I was one that, like, you know, the kid in the class that, I mean, I wasn't, like, I wouldn't say I was, how do I say it? It was extremely brutal, but it was happening to, I mean, everyone gets bullied for the most part. Somebody was bullying you? brutal but it was happening to i mean everyone gets bullied for the most part somebody's bullying you yeah well when i was growing up that from from third grade till eighth grade for sure it was brutal seven eight dollars usually were you smaller then i was you're a gigantic dude i was smaller it takes a lot of balls to bully you yeah and uh that might backfire it's actually kind of why i found fighting um or not or not why it is, or not kind

it is because, uh, I was 13 years old and I had just gotten, so, well, two things. Have you ever seen in Texas for high school homecomings? They have moms. Have you heard of that? No, it's a mom. Texas tradition. That's crazy. Um, now all, all, all the kids love kids love them everything else but you get these like

corsages or fake flowers that they put real big up top and then they are streamers with literal bells and whistles full-size teddy bears you can have two three teddy bears when i was in high school the girl would wear it on her shoulder and the guy would wear it around his arm now in texas they literally have to put a harness around them and hold these things up because they're so big and there you go mom's texas mom isn't that nuts isn't that nuts that that's homecoming in texas what look at that i'm telling you it's the whole state the whole state i mean every homecoming that comes around texans are nuts about this i mean i lived in texas and i was like four months old so it it was, uh, they're nuts and they've gotten bigger and bigger and bigger every single year.

And, uh, how am I just hearing about this? I'm real proud of it. It's weird. I mean, I, are you just hearing about this, Jamie? I think those are literally like two and $300 now. What? Yeah. When I was in high school, they were like 70, 100.

Oh my God. Look at all those girls. Look at that picture that you had down there. There's a giant group of girls with all this. This is ridiculous. Is that not nuts? How do you how do you go to the dance like that? How do you go to the game like that? I don't understand I mean literally the boyfriends are walking behind them holding the stuff up for him cuz what? It's getting too heavy their neck hurts, but they want to wear it. It's a tradition. Yeah, everybody gets excited the bigger

And more than mum the bigger the mum the better gets excited the bigger and more the mom the bigger the mom the better the more the more your date liked you is this a mom company that you just clicked on oh my god they're in every single grocery store in texas what yeah whenever it comes to like uh september october november around homecoming time high school like this is people's jobs like seasonal jobs they sit around and they take special orders they make them for you or they sell them to where you can make them yourself um that's so strange isn't that nuts it always baffles me when i find out about something for the very first time i don't know why i'm so confused i i would like to find out where the tradition uh came from probably but i mean people is just so ingrained in you if you you're texan that you have to get mums

and so uh is there any other state find out if other states accept that i literally oklahoma doesn't do it louisiana doesn't new mexico i mean all around us it's just texas 12 things non-texas need to know about homecoming mums what in the fuck the mum started as a simple flower. Hold on, scroll up a little bit. Mums started as a simple flower. Guys give them to their homecoming date. Oh, that's hilarious. Girls also give guys one called a garter.

Like a garter? Oh, they put it around your arm? On your garter belt? Or over your bicep. God, how bizarre. Like one of those things that tie boxers wear? Yeah. Being able to make mums can make you rich.

Oh, God. See, $60 to $300. What? $300 for fake flowers. $300? It ain't cheap to electrify a mum. Oh, my God. That chick's got one that lights up.

That's so crazy. You can put LED lighting. Look at that. Scroll up a little bit. You can put LED lighting in mums. I didn't know how many folks were doing this back when I was in high school, but nowadays you really want to impress your date. The latest in mum lighting technology will help you do just that.

That is hilarious. You know this isn't even like a joke website, right? No, this is real. They're taking it serious. That's so strange. It's really weird and so when i was in middle school seventh grade i you know look at that girl she's got a christmas tree on her tits that's ridiculous they uh so you want to save i saved it up and my allowance asked one of my crushes to go to the

homecoming game with me she She said yes to my surprise, went to the game and, uh, spent pretty much all my allowance on, uh, the, her mom and, uh,

her name's Jessica. And I took her to the game and, uh, I'm up in the stands with her and home or halftime comes around. I'm up at the very top left. And all of a sudden everyone looks back up over the right shoulders at us and this one guy's kind of my my bully through elementary and middle school for sure and um his name was justin as well and so he walks up and uh puts his arm out uh to her and she

puts her arm around his and he grabs the streamer that says uh justin and jessica and the year on it or whatever and uh he says thanks for getting her this and i'm like what he goes you didn't think she'd come with you did you and so he just kind of walks down all the schools looking they're all laughing um having fun but and and that one hurt but what was worse was the next year because you know people liked that part of i don't know i think for me when i see bullying now i just spoke out of middle school and i told one of the teachers asked what should you tell a kid that's battling with suicidal thought or depression even maybe suicidal thoughts i'm like well if this is 300 400 kids in here like sure, one person is dealing with these issues right now.

And I would say, you know, the thing that probably saved me was my parents didn't own a gun. Probably only Texans that don't own guns. And then I don't know. I mean, I guess one of the main things was, well, I don't even know that I've ever said this publicly, but I remember having attempted suicide once and then thinking about it again. And then thinking, you know, what would this, what would this do to my mom? You know, and so I love my mom. I'm my mama's boy.

Dad's great too. But that's just who i am she's a tough cookie she's where i got my competitiveness she was a national champion and barrel racing state champion in tennis and so she always pushed me my dad if he uh if he was at a wrestling tournament and it's the finals even state i would dislocate my thumb or something he'd come up you don't have to wrestle in the next match like it's the finals my mom's like he's getting out there so my mom's the one pushing him shut up jimmy uh he's gonna he's gonna go out there and he's gonna wrestle he's gonna win and so uh my dad was more of the the one wanting to protect

me and she's the one wanting to push me out there um so i guess i don't even know what i was saying that except for oh that thought was just um ringing in my head and so whenever i finally verbalized that and start talking to people, that's what really helped. You know, it didn't have to be a bunch of people. I didn't have to go around and be, um, I don't know, a drama queen or do it for attention or whatever, but just find one person. And for me at that age, it was having a great mom and, um, and parents that love me. And I think that's probably absolutely what saved me at that time and so I was telling these kids you know hey tell if even if it's just your mom so I was taking

pictures with some of the kids afterwards and stuff and I walk out to leave and I'm in the hall and this mom stops me because she's with her little guy and he's crying so a mom had come to school had heard there was anti-bullying talk she came up and i see this little guy and it reminded me a lot of me the only difference was uh was he had these kind of big glasses on but he was a little chubby and had just had one of those things that you'd see stereotypical like this kid's gonna get picked on right and so um probably a lot like me he's used to getting his fat pinched and nipples twisted and you know all that different stuff and so um he was out there just bawling with his mom his mom asked if i could come talk to him for a little bit i did

and she was saying that he had never opened up with her and uh in the last two years but she knew he had been dealing with really bad depression and right there he told her i've been dealing with suicidal thoughts for two years and so i don't know why i even brought that up except for like it's nuts my parents have a have a photography company and they made a memorial a few years back for a little boy who's getting bullied didn't think he had an option out and he took his life at nine years old oh my god i think it was his swing set out back. How did he take his, hung himself? Oh, Jesus Christ. And so I saw the plaque and everything made up for him and just gut wrenching.

And so, you know, as I say that in the first story, wasn't it? But then this kind of one that kind of brought everything to a head was I was in middle eighth grade this time. Got invited to, uh, Jennifer's, um, birthday party, really excited.

I got to invite one of the real invitations in my hands and, um, made the plans, talked to my mom, asked if I could go talk to some of the people who else is going. I was just kind of a dorky kid anyways, but, um,

on the invitation, I noticed, man, it says costume contest and the winner gets a prize i started in research all this other stuff other people were doing it too and um i found out that her dad worked at dr pepper um and that their house was decorated with and all this other stuff and then um and then she loves transformers and so i thought what if i you know combine those two things what if i I could make myself a cardboard transformer from head to toe? I think it was a 24 pack around the head,

12 packs around the arms, legs, boots. I had, I had a chest plate, I had a sword out of a cardboard, a country kid Texas. You see those moms, we can do pretty much anything with duct tape. And so duct tape cardboard just made it up and walked into the party and her grandma opened the door she goes oh jennifer's gonna love this walked in they literally had a dr pepper machine one of those like old school ones you didn't have to pay just push the button it pops out 13 year old kid you love that so we got dr pepper can one hand have the dr pepper cardboard sword in the other, walk to the backyard. Um, and whenever the door opens, I opened the door, um, greeted there with like some flashes of lights and fingers pointing, people laughing. And, um, I remember Jennifer saying, I can't believe you thought you were

cool enough to come to my party. And I was the only one that was dressed up. Everybody else had gotten there early and they all been planning it. And even the invitations were fake just so that I would come there, dress up. Another kid said, um, you're worthless. So in that moment I felt worthless. And then, um, the main bully said, you should just kill yourself. And so whenever he said that 13 years old battle with depression, suicidal thoughts, all that different stuff, man, it, it took me on a downward spiral tailspin. it really sucked i didn't know how to cover it up and then i guess i'm getting back to the mma route where i found that 13 years old at like a flea market in texas and walking down uh these aisles i'm looking for a bb gun and all of a sudden i

get to this like used video shop and it's got ufc vhs i think it was 2 through 10 or 10 2 through 11 or something like that and um so i just i bought them all um you were on there and that is a horrible story man yeah that is a terrible story how the fuck could those kids be so mean i mean i think that is honestly i i don't think it's i mean that crazy compared to i mean it is it's very like uh methodical like very planned out yeah um and a lot of people were in on it i think that probably was one of the things like honestly jennifer was that the biggest crush i ever had and you know elementary middle school growing up you know and so she was the one i really wanted to impress that's why i did that research you know and then to know that she was in on it. These other guys planned it, but she went along with it.

But to have her say that to you, like, I can't believe you thought you were cool enough to come to my party. Yeah. Fuck, man. Yeah, I ended up leaving. And this is before cell phones. I didn't have a cell phone until I was like 16, 17. And so I'm 13, run out, found a dairy queen, um, and, uh, went in the back and where the drive-thru is, there was like a, I don't know, the dumpster and they got like the fence around

it. And I just was able to open it, sit there and just cried basically until, uh, someone came out to throw away the trash. And then, uh, they were then uh they were like oh honey got down what do you need and all this other stuff can you call your mom i'm like if i have a phone and so i walked inside called her but she wasn't there so it took a little while to get a hold of my mom and then um yeah i mean it was just it was nuts because um it's weird how you you'll believe especially in today's age with social media and all the tweets and things that people just throw away, I throw around. Um, you know, it's nuts how you can see something, don't even know them. They might have one follower, but somehow it can still, if you let it, it can still

affect you instead of just shrugging it off. That's a totally different thing though. Someone saying something on Twitter and someone saying something and looking you in the eyes yeah and planning out this big deception yeah but you're such a nice guy like i don't understand what what the fuck caused someone to be such a shithead like that well i don't know man i think well i think um i've i've matured a lot where i mean obviously 29 is at 13 but uh uh i think i just became an easy target and because you're just a nice guy and they just maybe that i wouldn't stand up for myself and maybe i i wasn't the biggest kid but i was chubby and bigger and uh uh yeah i think it just was easy to pick on me in the locker rooms, pick on me in the,

I don't know. I think, I think who the stats I was looking at was something like 87% of bullying doesn't happen in the presence of, um, adults, adults. Right.

And then, uh, I forget, but you know, even the people around, like how you're saying, you know, to people plan it out and everything else looking in the eyes.

I mean, I think that might've been what took me back the most because i was like man like this is if you're sitting by that this is what i try to tell some of the kiddos growing up now it's like if you think that by laughing i mean if you're there and you're not bullying but you're giggling you're laughing like you're definitely a part of it you're an encourager right but then if you're even if you're silent and you're just watching it and you don't like now you're if you see it you have a choice you can do something about it or you cannot and so i feel like that's a passive standby kind of encouragement where and so for me it was like everyone was there people were saying it people were laughing people were watching but nobody was was standing up for me so

it was uh i think that's what hurt the most we'll see so there's two giant instances the one with the other guy named justin so they planned that out too fuck man yeah both you went to school with some evil kids yeah it was actually part of the same kids so god damn yeah and then uh so from that um yeah that that's that's definitely been the biggest battle of my life has been depression suicidal thoughts and it was all from that bullying there was nothing other than that for the depression yeah yeah i mean it went from technically i would say it went from third grade to 10th grade. And then whenever I started wrestling and my parents transferred me out of the school, everything else then.

But the bullying is what caused all these suicidal thoughts. There was nothing else that was bumming you out about life. No. That is so fucked up that some shitty, mean kids can all of a sudden throw this monkey wrench in your life. And then I've learned, and mean of course i uh you know a lot i used to looking back i shouldn't have i shouldn't have ever let it get to the point to where you know i think i should hurt myself or kill my you know what just a real quick put that together with uh the pygmies in congo whenever I opened up and shared with some of them around the campfire, just hanging out, talking, sharing life stories, I shared that.

And I just remember the looks on several people's faces, just so baffled. Like, did he just say he wanted to hurt himself? He was suicide. He wanted to kill himself, all that different stuff. And then I started asking, like, does that not happen here? And they're like, well, some of them were them were like well we've heard of that happening before and yeah there's there's this guy that was that guy and that guy and that guy and we heard that someone in their village had hurt themselves or killed themselves or something but most of the people i think were

like no never hurt why would anyone if you hurt yourself you're only hurt like that's only hurting you right that's not going to help anything but you just wanted the pain yet to end yeah yeah here i just wanted the pain to end but there it's like it's nuts because they if i look at it i was a little kid i got bullied by some some stupid kids and then look if i look at what they're going through man it, it makes it, it makes it, it shrinks it. It makes it microscopic. Whenever you stop just focusing on your own problems, you start looking at others, other problems that maybe you can be a part of helping solve that problem. And so, so this bullying all throughout your childhood led into adulthood.

And the only thing that made it better was you going to the Congo and helping out these pygmies and building wells and, and sort of dedicating and devoting your life to their life. Yeah. I would say practically, um, that has been, you know, to have a sense of purpose. I mean, I think it's a, it's a lot of different things, but that all kind of came together. But for me, yeah, I mean, when you're not living for yourself and you're living for others, you just won't. I mean, I, I didn't know that for me, I had a big paradigm shift or changing my life whenever, you know, coming out of the addiction, I felt like, oh man, like I don't have to walk around and hate myself and stay away from people because they're either going to hurt me or I'm going to want to hurt them. Like, I don't have to do that. I can I can help people. I can want to love them. I can, you know, figure out something. different stuff from a juvenile detention center, going in and meeting with some of those kids once a week to a homeless shelter, to becoming an official volunteer at the Denver Children's

Hospital and taking the grudge guys through there. And I think like Rashad and Dwayne and Shane Carwin and Brendan and all these guys, you know, they were going and, and they actually saw me going through the really tough addictions and getting kicked off grudge fight team. And then a year later, I'm luckily able to organize an event where they wouldn't let us come in just as fighters to visit the kids because they were like fighters. Why would you guys come and visit us? And that's violent. And so I decided I'll become a volunteer here, go through all the processes and the training and all the other stuff. And then I loved volunteering there.

And then after they got to know me, I'm like, hey, can we do a team visit? Man, us in there, the best visit they had ever had was the bikers, like this biker gang guys. They always brought pizza on Wednesday night or something. And they literally did look rough and tumble. And then they said ours rough and tumble. And then they said ours was the second best. And I'm like, you know what? And then they said, well, I won't say the teams,

but some of the other big major league sports, they said those have been, and they named some of them. They're like, they've been some of our absolute worst. And I'm like, man, see, you thought fighters were going to come in here. And I don't know if you thought we were going to beat up the kids or something. But no, we're passionate about the sport i mean i think passionate means you love something so much that you'll suffer for it or or even that suffering looks like enjoyment or

becomes enjoyment because you love it and you're passionate about it and so i mean whenever you're a fighter you're getting beat up and all that other stuff and man we're passionate people we we really love each other it's all team camaraderie and yeah there's an intense camaraderie between people that train together yeah because you go through such difficult sessions and difficult sparring and difficult moments and conditioning and all that stuff and you push each other and it's a different kind of bond right yeah and on that i think i saw someone recently post uh something that was pretty cool where it showed uh like a jujitsu gym and it was um showing all the different people and in it it said something like this is the where's the one place you can find

these religious people these different skin colors colors. And I forget how, how it was worded, but yeah. And we all get along and there's all peace. It's like on the mats. I love that. Yeah, I do as well.

Did you, do you stay in any way in touch with those kids from back in the day from the kids that bullied you? Did you ever, it was actually funny after the ultimate fighter, um, I got invited out by one of the guys um and uh just because i think a couple of people uh they'll just yeah i saw one of the guys who was one of the main guys and he's like hey uh it's just so i'm walking

around downtown fort worth and he's like why don't we go out here whatever i'm like all right i'll go and well he had actually uh brought me into uh the sushi restaurant and all around the table was most of the people that were not most there's probably only like eight or ten people but they were some of the main kids that were at that party when i dressed up and everything like man if you if we would have known you were a fighter or you know you could have kicked our butts and we wouldn't have done that to you and i'm just like so i told him i was going to the bathroom and just left um i think that's the only time i've ever done anything like that but i was like i can't can't be around these guys did you did you

sense any feeling of remorse from them or did they just want to be friends with you one or two of them uh one guy for sure he's he's he's pretty cool now and um but then one is uh is a knucklehead for sure and still yeah big time you know it's that classic thing of kids ganging up on one kid that's a weird instinct that sometimes children have you remember that movie carrie when they uh she goes to the prom and the c Spacek movie. It's based on a great Stephen King book. I know the cover. The Sissy Spacek movie was

really trippy. John Travolta is in it. Back in the day. Young and handsome. But it's you know that's the themes that they push her. She has these crazy telekinetic powers and they push her to this point and they do it by mocking her and bullying her. They take her to the prom and they pour pig's blood on her head.

She winds up killing everybody. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. But that thing that happens when kids gang up on a kid that they feel like is vulnerable. Like, what the fuck is that, man? What a horrible instinct. like what the fuck is that man what a horrible instinct like is that but i mean i i just i struggle to understand where that instinct comes from or why people do it it's um especially little kids yeah i mean i guess i could understand that if the kids have

been abused themselves they want to lash out they They're angry and hurt. But oftentimes it's just they find someone who's vulnerable. It's like they find the pecking order and they find the one person they can get away with and they all funnel their insecurities and their anger and their aggression on this one person just because with no regard whatsoever of what kind of impact it's going to have on that kid. Yeah. And I think one of the things that makes it so much worse now is at least i mean i don't know i get to hear some of the stuff and they can't escape it like because it follows them home i mean all that cyber bullying and they get the text and the all the stuff is so

it's constantly so i could at least escape it from i don't know eight to three eight to three i was at school but when i came home i was i was okay and um maybe that gave me a break but uh a little bit of a break from it but i mean it's nuts the world that we live in and the stuff that's happening i mean what you said happened in germany and other like school shootings have happened here i was in aurora when the the movie theater thing happened um and it's just terrible but then there's absolutely without a doubt zero excuse for you'll never do anything like that but then i kind of have looked at it maybe once before it might be stupid for me to talk about it now but um i kind of can see where they've been pushed

over the edge in a way no excuse they should not ever do anything like that but um for me it's like man they they it was never a fair fight they were always cornered um outnumbered um beaten down over and over and over and they just snapped and uh now it's terrible don't do yeah i don't know if that's the case the aurora shooter no no he's completely insane yeah but i i think it certainly can happen to people where they get to this point where not only do they not want to live they don't want you to live anymore either because i mean i'm sure if you had been in a situation where you knew someone you had a friend who was in the same boat as you you know like um those kids from columbine you know where the two kids got together and they sort of helped each other do something really

fucked up if you were involved with the wrong people at that time and someone had a gun and you knew where these kids were and you you know you wanted to do that to yourself who knows what you would have wanted to do to them as well yeah it's a it's kind of a scary thing to think about i did have a dark period it was i think it was in between seventh and eighth grade where i started hanging out with a lot of the i don't know just the the kids that are were involved in just darker thoughts music stuff like that where it um where you know i'm hanging out with them and we're all we're all depressed we you know and we're we're listening to that papa roach song the last resort you know uh i think it's like cut myself bleeding you know i'm never gonna i don't want to breathe again or live again or something like that and then all of a

sudden they're bringing out uh what are those the big big black cats or those m80s or something like that there's a bunch of frogs where we lived in the country and they go get the frogs blow up a frog get another frog blow up a frog oh jesus frog up a frog and also I'm like this is this is a little way too dark for me so I'm gonna how do you blow up a frog you stick it in it's mouth yeah stick it in it's mouth

and just light it right in front sorry for anyone and the frog just keeps it in it's mouth for some strange reason yeah they're hopping hopping hopping

with it in it's mouth yeah with it's mouth because I think maybe with M80s they use those because they're big so you stick it in there it kind of sticks they can't get it out i can't get it out oh god yeah so brutal anyways

when that happened i was like okay i need to i need to change the that was a group of like five or six kids that were just in a very very dark place and even one's in jail so fuck dude what a bummer you're bumming me out i don't want to do that every time you've been here it's just been all joyful and loving and all the things i didn't know your history well hey man it's just honest expression there's nothing wrong with it it's just it it makes me um as an adult i almost want to go back in time and like stop it from happening. You know, it makes me, it makes me very sad. It's just,

it's one of the worst aspects of human beings that they could plan something like that and do that and just try to ruin someone's life just for sport, just for fun, for no reason. You didn't do anything to them. It's just, it's fucked up, man. I see it as a thing that actually helped shape and mold me now in a way of

like i look at it and it's it was loretta while we're writing the book she's like do you not see all these kind of parallels and i'm like what do you mean you grew up you got really really bullied now you're trying to help people that are like maybe the most bullied people on planet earth i'm like oh i guess i i see that now and uh what was it last not the last trip but the second to last trip to congo that i had i was there and we're having to get a mechanic to help wear tires and different stuff and all of a sudden a drunk mechanic comes out he's always drunk and uh and he comes out he's talking with us this little boy walks by he's literally he should be in school but because his family's so poor he's out selling eggs and if

he's selling eggs he make you know nothing but he'll never be able to go to school probably and he's just trying to make money to to feed his family and he's literally five six seven years old and he's coming around selling the eggs normally they sell them hard-boiled um but sometimes they don't when they're when they're walking around you want to eat it then but this kids were all raw And so it seemed harder for him to sell them But the drunk guy picked up the egg He's looking at it shakes a little bit finds out it's raw and just smashes him

The kid this is an adult 30-something year old man, and this is literally a 56 78 year old kid just smashes it over his head and the kid looks up at him with just fear i mean it's not smart for me because uh because you know i'm the outsider um to the government's eyes and everything else but like i almost got in a fistfight with him i remember just pulling my hand straight back and and just almost just backhanded him right across the face and then ben's like whoa whoa whoa and i grabbed i think i grabbed his shirt or grabbed his shoulder and i said ben translate for me real quick if he ever leaves his hands on that kid or any other kid i'm gonna lay my hands on him and so just make sure he

understands that this kind of thing and um i don't even know a woman that except for i mean i just don't get get people sometimes um let's we'll get into some positive stuff, but that that one just blew me away I was like you you're an old guy picking on a Kindergartner I just as a I mean as a person I Don't understand it, but I also don't understand it like logically I don't understand like where that inclination comes from like what what is it about a human being that makes them want to do that like what how's how did that develop how is it so common um i don't know i guess when you put someone down you feel better about yourself but do you really i mean does anybody really i know what i've found is the exact opposite yeah help somebody it actually helps you of course

love somebody you feel more loved. Yeah. So it's counterintuitive, but that's kind of what people do, right? Do the opposite of what we could or should do. But it's so common. I wonder, like, what is the cause, the root cause of it? Does it play some sort of evolutionary role? Like, what is it?

Like pecking order with chickens. Like they try to find out who's the weakest one and they'll attack they'll all attack like the weakest chicken they'll all peck at it it's it's like what the is that like why is it are they trying to weed out the weak is it an evolutionary thing is it are they terrified of someone doing that to them so they strike first well you know what there's actually a a pretty incredible video pull this up to you so yeah because there's actually a pretty incredible video that i was absolutely terrible whenever i gave the speech or whatever but i played part of

the video cut it down to like three minutes it's like 12 but i think it's called the battle at kruger have you seen that no it's in africa oh i have seen that yeah that's the water buffalo crocodile yep lion takes the the back of the pack the smaller weaker younger lions all go after that one tackle it splash in the water they're dragging the baby out of the out of the lake and then all or river and all of a sudden a huge crocodile comes and grabs it and they have a tug-of-war match with this baby i think it was a cape buffalo cape buffalo yeah and so uh it wasn't a wildebeest right it was capable i think anyways one of those and uh and yeah it's nuts but what i love almost in that analogy of where you know if you're

standing by like you're encouraging it or if you're standing by like you're encouraging it or if you're not doing anything you're encouraging it but if you just stand up oh that's the stat i saw where 87 percent of bullying happens in the presence of nobody but in the times that it is around people if one person says one thing to the bully 90 percent of the time it's 80 to 90 of the time it stops within five seconds the bullying it just stops and it doesn't have to be anything aggressive it can be hey man lay off of them and then if you after that it's something like 95 of the time if you invite the bullied victim to come into your group or hang out or sit at your table or whatever um then it stops even even better right away when you don't address

the bully you address the person that's getting bullied so it seems like the people that are bullying they almost need reinforcement and they get they're getting reinforcement by people being complicit or being silent or they're joining like those lions the one line decides to take out the little guy so different though that's what they just that's what they do for food you know that's how they stay alive that's a natural instinct this is a weird evilness the one thing i do like about it though is with those two stats like say something don't be passive whenever one cape buffalo turned around a couple other ones did too and then one came in there in the middle of the one hit one line threw it in the air and then all of them tucked tail and ran yeah once they

realized what a cape buffalo could actually do to them man that's so terrible you know cape buffalo is apparently uh are some of the most dangerous animals in africa and they will charge you and just so used to being around people um or around animals animals rather than trying to kill them. Yeah. I almost got us, uh, uh, arrested and not, uh, not just a little bit, a lot of bit where we accidentally, um, believe the Serengeti is in Tanzania and we're on the border of Kenya and Tanzania and we're taking a shortcut from some locals, which is always fine if you're from there. And we saw this awesome, but we didn't know we were going through the Serengeti. They just thought it was a shortcut. We didn't pay for a park pass or anything like that and all of a sudden i see this just gigantic cape buffalo skull just sitting in the middle of nowhere i'm like let's get that

let's take it back and so we put that in the back of the truck all of a sudden we're driving and uh we get pulled over by the park rangers then they see the cape buffalo skull they say we're poachers they say this that and just swarmed by uh by all these these park rangers like three or four different vehicles saying they're gonna arrest me all this different stuff and in our crew and uh luckily anyways that's a random thing but luckily we just said hey can i just put it right back where it was i didn't i didn't mean to i didn't know we were in a national park. Yeah, they don't take any bullshit from poachers out there. It's very dangerous. They kill poachers on sight.

Yeah, they can kill them where it's, a lot of times it's literally the life in prison sentence for certain ones. For poaching. Yeah, for like endangered species for sure with like uh the okapi um one of my last trips someone tried to i think i maybe said earlier where on one of the past episodes where someone tried to sell me the meat and the fur of an okapi and then um okapis are in danger yes and they're only found in the one area that we're kind of working in. And the rebel groups there went to a little wildlife reserve for them, protecting them. And they went and murdered like, I don't know, 15 or 20 of them, something like that. They were there trying to help stimulate them, you know, help them come back in the wild and everything else.

They just went and killed them all. Yeah. help them come back in the wild and everything else they just went and killed them all um yeah and then another guy was trying to sell me a uh a rhino horn um and yeah it's just brutal now poaching sucks but i love how the the pygmies culture is with with hunting i even have a a quick video um if i think um did you see what they're doing where they're making 3d printed uh cloned rhino horns and they're gonna flood the market with them that's a great idea yeah see if you can find that with shark fins too right yeah yeah they're um i mean these people eat shark fins i mean it's it's fucked up that they're killing them all and making soup out of them but Jesus at least they're eating them

the rhino thing is insane it's absolutely based on nothing I mean the eye medicine but it's crazy I just can't imagine that here we are in 2016 with Viagra

and Cialis and all these different boner pills you buy at the gas station that Red Band takes. When I was pulling this up, I found this on Vice. 3D printed rhino horns are not the solution to poaching crisis, experts say. Yeah, the experts don't agree that that's the best way. Well, I don't know if it's the best way either. I mean, I just can't imagine that the rhinos are literally on the verge of going extinct because people want to kill them and take their horns which do nothing i mean it's isn't it

like the same substance as like a fingernail or toenail yeah it is exactly that's exactly what it is it's like hair yeah yeah it's but they have this erroneous idea that you eat it and it makes your dick hard. I just, I don't know. What the fuck is going on with Asia? That's a broad statement, isn't it? Boy, I generalize. I generalize on a billion people. The fuck's going on with Asia, man? I mean, I wonder, I think it's also a status symbol.

I was reading that even though it might not necessarily be real or really work but it's such an uh ancient cultural status symbol thing that like these businessmen will get together and they'll have like rhino horn tea you know and they but they think it's cool because it's illegal and you can't get it and it's dangerous and it's got got to come from Africa. So it must really work. No, no, I'm just kidding. Maybe it does work. Maybe that's what they think, though. Maybe it does work. It's this expensive.

Maybe it does something. Their grandfather said it worked. His grandfather said it worked. Why don't you Google that, Jamie? Does rhino horn actually work? No, it won't. I know. I mean, maybe it doesn't work as good as other stuff.

Your fingernails doesn't. Maybe it does. Then you just got to eat enough fingernails. Yeah. Imagine. What's an acceptable source to find? Is this true or not? I don't think there would be one.

Is it from China's Google? Isn't that funny? Like, you have to find a website that you trust, right? It's got to be like wired.com or something like that. PBS has a story on fact or fiction used on it, but... What does that say? PBS is probably valid. That's a lot of information I'd have to read

first, but just a long article about it. Rhino horn used fact or fiction. When I'm exhausted and I look at something like that, I go to the very bottom and say, hmm, how do they wrap this up? Overall, not much evidence to support yeah the pressure of claims about the hearing properties of the horns there you go that's

a good good little tip i just learned yeah if you're not really this isn't life dependent this is not something that you're really it's not really a factor in your life yeah just go to the bottom line it's it is very strange oh Oh, okay. Not believed as once believed. It's not as once believed, rather. Made simply from a clump of compressed or modified hair. Recent studies by researchers in Ohio University. Ohio, there you go. Using computerized, what is that word?

Tomography? CT scans have shown that the horns are, in fact, similar in structure to horses' hooves, turtle beaks, and cockatoo bills. The studies also reveal that the centers of the horns have dense mineral deposits of calcium and melanin, a finding that may explain the curve and sharp tip of the horn. The calcium would strengthen the horn, while the melanin would protect some of the core from being degraded by ultraviolet radiation from the sun huh softer outer portion worn away over time

by the sun and typical rhino activities bashing horns with other animals rubbing on the ground the inner core would be sharpened into a point much like a wooden pencil huh yeah there were in the horn that this kid was basically trying to sell it he was like 15 16 years old his dad was the poacher and uh his dad didn't want to get arrested so he sends his kid um and uh it had all sorts of like uh deep deep like scratches inside of it and stuff and or just all over kind of the top was all nicked up and stuff. University of Hong Kong found that large doses of rhino horn extract could slightly lower fever in rats. Imagine if rhino horn was the cure to malaria. And we would start breeding them, right?

Like we do with chickens and stuff. Yeah. How strange. It's just, I mean, obviously, it's not happening in the Western world. It's not happening here. But it could i guess right i mean some people are just fucked up some people they don't care if something's about to go extinct they just want they want what they want and if they want that rhino horn for whatever

strange reason it's just you know well it's like it's like uh it's like kind of with the trees um you know we we're getting ready i think to replant um i think it's 1 000 more trees which would take our total up to 4 500 on the land for the pygmies and around there the reason i mean china and all these other places are coming in they're cutting down the rare hardwoods the mahogany and and reason king leopold went there was the rubber boom and the trees there and everything else. But then, um, it's just nuts me because I think they're, you know, they want it for greed, money, everything else.

But then the people in the country, they're starting to, to, to learn and get educated in the fact that like, Hey, if we're cutting down all these trees, we better start replanting some because it takes so long for them to grow back. And uh no but it's just for charcoal or fire and they're like and then once that's gone what do you have nothing yeah bunia actually um the town that all of our well drillers live in and at the university they um they used to be in a rainforest now you have to drive three four hours to get to the closest forest whoa you have to drive three or four hours away and it used to be in the center of the not center of the rainforest but the edge of the rainforest oh it used to be all forest no it's not three or four hours drive

yeah it's all just because of deforestation all chopping down for logging yeah fuck man i was in canada and um they they do a pretty good job of regulating it in bc but it's still disturbing because you you come across these these big gigantic fields where the trees are just gone all the trees have been cut and you know they plant some and they have they also have like perches they leave perches for animals which is uh probably like an awesome spot for like a hawk or an eagle or something like that because everything's cut down they can see everything straight to the yeah but it's um these cut i don't know i forget what they call it these patches where everything's cut down it's so disturbing yeah it's like i get i get that they replant i

get that they have a cycle i get that this but it just bugs me that people could do that they just giant swaths of the landscape shaved off and turned into toothpicks or whatever the fuck they do with it yeah and uh so i was in a village before my wife's first time to congo and it was i mean it was almost like you know lush untouched virgin forest and then all of a sudden uh come back next time with her come out of the forest come back in it's probably a month or so because we went to a couple other villages we go back start going on the same hike and all of a sudden there's this huge clearing at least 10 acres probably 20 25 and it was just nothing there except for a few remaining huge cut down trees that i could stand in front of in the the i don't know the base or whatever

was way taller than i was i look like a midget next to it or fuck man so yeah it's pretty crazy and i was telling her i'm like babe like when i was like take some picture of this i think i have some pictures right here of where where we are right now on this trail. And like there used to be trees here and it was nuts because all of a sudden for me, if I'm, the rainforest is great actually. I mean, it's hot and I'm all hairy, but, but she, or, but being under the canopy of the rainforest. I mean, I love that because it's shaded and everything else. Right. Still hot, still humid.

But a little bit better. I'm not getting burned not getting burned yeah so especially yeah you're really pale right on the hike i was getting burned and i'm like man this is nuts especially on that malaria medication right right um they were talking on this uh documentary i was watching about the deforestation of the amazon about how fast it's happening and how terrifying it is and uh a big part of it i guess is uh not even there's logging, but there's also, they cut it down to make room for cattle grazing. And when they were showing the, there's just a sheer size of the deforestation of how much they've done and so quickly.

And then also the people that live in these areas where if they resist the loggers or they resist they just get murdered yeah especially the um indigenous people that are more out there and that happens with the pygmies too because they're the weaker more vulnerable ones that you can push around and they can't push back so when you consider your life and you consider this horrible uh these stories that you're telling us about your upbringing, how disturbing it is, does it feel to you since you found this like sense of purpose and this real connection with these people in the Congo that almost like these horrible events in your life were setting you up to be the perfect person to find these folks? or setting you up to be the perfect person to find these folks? Without a doubt. For me, honestly, it's almost like, what's the right word?

Maybe sort of my chance at kind of redemption or just not being the kid that I grew up being. Not that I was a bad kid or anything, but just I hated myself. And I was like, you know what? I get to stop hating myself and I get to stop loving. And I get to start loving others. Well, not just that. You also have this massive impact on other people. You have all these people that love you. You have this amazing wife now.

You have this amazing pygmy family. You have your regular family. It's amazing. You have so much positive going on now. It's really kind of incredible. It's almost like the horrible experiences you had as a young kid have sort of made you into this incredible adult. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I don't know about that.

Well, you're very humble. I jacked up and I messed up. But you know what I mean, man? I mean, I don't even know how this honestly there's there's not a good explanation that i could probably explain that like it should be working or that it's working like it is because well with me at the front of it because i don't have any community development training or a degree um i actually don't speak the language I'm learning. How much can you speak? Rotamentary?

I don't even know. Like, como te llamo, Joe? Yeah, I can say, my name is this. Where's the bathroom? Right. You doing okay? You sure? You tired?

You're like, oh, you lost me. It's tough. The saying is pretty funny. What does it sound like? What do they sound like when they're talking? Jimmy, pull some pick me. Woo-wah, woo-wah. Hey, yo, hey, yo.

That's how they talk? Oh, yay, oh, yay. That's some of the forest calls. That's kind of like our walkie-talkies. Oh, yeah? You yell that out? Let people know where you are? Yeah.

So what are you saying when you're saying that? That is actually, that's not a word. It's just kind of like your own. It's like yo? Yeah. Or it's actually like, I'm over here. Where are you? Kind of things like that.

Or we're just checking. We're even at just excitement, just fun. I mean, whenever we go on hikes, those hikes are long, right? And there's no TV or you can't text or scroll the internet. You, yeah, have each other, which is always great, but then you goof off. I mean, actually, you know what? I bet in one of those videos it has them speaking, and it's pretty awesome. I remember that.

When you're saying hikes, like, you're talking like recreational hikes? No, no. No. You just got to get around. You hear someone talk about hikes in L.A. It's like, oh, I'm going to take my little dog to Runyon, and we're going to go hiking. Like, you say hiking. That's what people think.

They think of some recreational activity with one of those little camel things, the little water things. Camelback. Water reservoirs you put on your back and you suck on the straw as you're walking. You know what's funny? Staying hydrated. I took a couple of those to Congo the first couple times, and I realized just how impractical they are. And in a real long-term, not a day hike or a three-day weekend or something. A lot of guys don't like those. Yeah. A lot of guys don't like them. They'd rather have a, how do you say that

word? Nalgene? Nalgene. Nalgene. How do you say it? I think it's Nalgene. What is that? Is this like a certain type of plastic? I think it's a really hard, durable plastic that... Yeah, that people use for water jugs. And that's what I would rather use because the other one's too hard to clean and too hard to fill up and leaks and just all sorts of stuff. But some people like it because they don't have to stop. They can just keep walking and just suck on that thing as they're walking. I've never used one, though. Yeah, I used it for the first

two times i went which was like uh about a month each and uh you switch to water bottles yeah and then even uh they have those camelback kind of like i think they're called like a platypus or something that's um it's a gravity filter uh for water where you have a dirty water bag and you have a clean yes the dirty, you hang the dirty, and it goes down through a filter and into the clean bag. Yeah, I've seen that. That's interesting. Yeah.

Post it, Jimmy. See if you can find that. Does that work? Those don't work? I think they work great here in the States where... You're not dealing with much. Right. But whenever the water is dirty, like really dirty,

they break pretty quick. So you have to backwash them and other stuff. There's some that are good, but even the maintenance of them is just really, really tough. So they work for like one filtration, but they won't work over and over and over again? The first time I went for about a month, I had it for a week or two. And then all of a sudden it started breaking because I was even filtering the water, you know, in the town that's coming from Wells.

Cause I don't know if they, right. If they did it properly. Right. When they call and I had been sick enough, I'm like, yeah, I hear you.

So I'm filtering that stuff. And then by the time I get out to the forest, I was able to use it a few days and then it was out. And then all of a sudden I was stuck with just chlorine tablets the rest of the time. So, um, and you can boil it,

but it's, it's just impractical where every single time you want to drink, you take, uh, you know, take a container down to dirty water, which could be 30, 45 minutes away.

Um, bring it back, boil it, right. Bring it back, boil it, uh, filter it.

Yeah. And then all of a sudden all the, the ash is getting in it and then it's the hot, humid rainforest on the equator and boiling water doesn't cool down basically ever there. Right. And so it's impractical to do it that way. Fuck. But what I love now is, oh, you know what? I'm pumped.

Is this it right here? Let's do it. So this girl, first of all, she's way too hot to be in this video. She's very distracting. But they're going to take this in what looks like a very clean stream. So this is so much different than what you... But people should also be aware that clean streams, although they may look clean, you can still get giardia from them. Yeah, that's exactly what i learned from uh

his name his buddy my name matt uh he was the director of implementation now he's like the i think chief operating officer and he uh he came out there and one of the things he really drilled into us for a well drilling team we're learning from a great guy he's saying hey you can uh you can drill 100 wells or 200 wells but if you didn't do it right and proper, then I would have rather you done one the right way or none. None. If you do it the right or the wrong way 100 times, 200 times, and you are giving a village, like if you just hit home hard because he's like, look, we're learning every single step. You can't skip one. We got to drill this anywhere. You know it, you know, because we can't skip a step or miss

something. And then all of a sudden they are looking at it, drinking it. It tastes good. It's a, it's clean. It's cool. It's crisp. It's in a well, but yet it can still, still be, you know, contaminated, dirty. And so we're real sick. If you don't properly construct the well, no matter what well it is the wells here Anywhere what is the what are the factors like when you say prop properly construct like what are the issues that you have to avoid? Yeah, so we um Man and our teams getting getting great, but by the way real quick last time I was on the show I think we had completed 20 water wells. Yeah, I went back and looked at that 20 water wells today

I got a picture sent to me um and it's our 45th water whoa yeah man that's incredible dude i love it i absolutely love it so what's so great is seeing that you know they're they're they're taking this on as as their own thing and flying on their own two wings they they were empowered in a way that's like hey you can you can do this you can do it for yourself for your countrymen um you guys are going to be more passionate about ending the suffering because you know the suffering because you have suffered you've lost family members you have sick kids all that different stuff and so they're going to be able to be a better champion for this cause

than I could be because I mean, maybe we have different resources where I get to, you know, you share your platform with me, which has been incredible. Um, and the Kickstarter and the documentary coming out, all the different stuff is really great. But, um, but I know that the team there, like I, I couldn't do anything without them doing it and how great they've gotten but well that's a beautiful thing that you've helped them help themselves you taught them how to help themselves yeah well i think that's right there look at that picture there we go yeah i love it that's that to me if i could explain it is better than um i've been to the world i was just at ufc 200 uh was that uh the world series nba finals super bowl pacquiao fights i mean i've been to all these things and

i mean those crowds those huge crowds are 30 40 50 100 000 different stuff and that little crowd of 100 120 like to me it drowns out the sound of a entire stadium like it's a different kind of it's a different kind of gratitude thankfulness right when you've suffered your whole life and then you you get to partner with people and i'm not even talking about me like our team our well drillers you know they see know, they see them coming in, staying with them, living like they're living, eating like they're eating, sitting around the campfire like they sit around, which nobody else does that with them. And so sleeping in the huts that they sleep in, which nobody else would do in that area. And then like you just develop this bond and really quickly and to where all of a sudden they're jumping in and helping with the construction of the well and everything else. Now they do the simple day labor stuff, not the technical stuff, but then, um, yeah, our guys are there, they're, they're getting it down, which is pretty cool. That's amazing. Now you're at 45 wells. Yeah.

And what is, do you have an ultimate goal or would you just like to continue? Yeah. And what is, do you have an ultimate goal or would you just like to continue? I think the, my ultimate goal lines up with water for his ultimate goal, which I love. And then with our drillers in Congo, like our goal is to end the water crisis if possible. Um, we think it is possible and we have the technology. We should be able to do it in our lifetime. Like before you or me pass this earth, like we should have the technology. We should be able to do it in our lifetime. Before you or me pass this earth, we should have the technology to get everyone clean water. Isn't it crazy that that's their issue? When over here in America, we have so many trivial things that we're constantly worrying about and fretting. When it gets down to basic human necessities like water, the ability to get clean water which is without that all the

all the other things that we argue or bicker about they're all it's all nonsense yeah absolutely that's something that oh man that's something that i i almost like i get this crazy culture shot because i feel like i'm in two different worlds and when I'm there, it's so, I mean, there's, it's uncomfortable, but cause I'm passionate about it, you know, I enjoy it. Um, but then getting back here, sometimes it's like, man, like everything, a lot of times, everything that we're chasing, even me, uh, it doesn't really matter. Um, in the big grand scheme of things, you know, how can we, how can we instead get for ourselves how can we give to another person because like i mean it truly is like that's that's better and i know you have

to take care of yourself so you can take care of someone else like i get that right um i just think it's kind of like this our culture here you see kids and even adults that's mine right i mean that's that's our culture we say that's mine give me that it's mine in congo if uh if a kid if that kid that had the eggs instead of having an egg if he had a bag of peanuts and he bought it for himself and then i walk by sit down with him if i'm a friend or not even just introducing myself, he's going to offer me his food. He said like, instead of it's mine, he's gonna say, you want some? And so it's different in that culture where it's not, so they don't have anything, but they'll give you everything they got. Like for instance, um, that, that knife last time, uh, that I was able to, you know, bring back that chief Leo may made, um, you know, he, he made

a bow and arrow and I'm actually bringing that to you. It was under our crawl space and I lost it. And now I know where it is, but, uh, he's pumped to bring that back to you. But I mean, for them to give that kind of stuff away, whenever Leo may, he's the chief of his village. And now, because he's got a job, he might have more. But whenever I knew him, he had maybe he was lucky if he had two changes of clothes because most of the pygmies have the clothes on their back. They don't even have a blanket. The fire is their blanket. And so it's just completely, I don't know, night and day difference.

There's a lot of people that listen to this that have gotten this far that want to figure out how they can help. So what can people do to donate? Where can they go? Yeah, I mean water for his website. Is that the best place to start or forgotten calm? Both of them are one in the same fight for the forgotten. Yeah. Dot-com.org They both work both work for the guy.org.com And there's a big yellow donate button Click on that and have at it folks. Well, thank you,

man. And it's been, uh, it's been crazy to see what's going on. We're getting ready to do something that I'm, I'm pumped about me and Papa Y and Ben and Matt. We had like talked about it and kind of dreamed it up. And,

uh, and we were saying how, how awesome would it be if in this, if in Bunia, which is kind of a city center, maybe maybe less than half a million people for sure. But, you know, in the city center where there's a university, there's a community development program that's literally changing their part of Congo. By not waiting on the government or by not waiting on an NGO, like they're just taking the initiative themselves. by not waiting on an NGO, like they're just taking the initiative themselves.

And so we've seen that they're so bought in that whenever we presented an idea of, what if we could start a sustainable solutions appropriate technology center where there's land, water, and food solutions, and then after that maybe we can get into solar. Maybe after that we can do this or that or, you know, whatever. But at that place we'll have different stations where here's land. You can come learn about land rights, how to replant the trees, the forestry aspect, you know, all that different stuff, the importance of land. And we have people there that can help and show them things. If a chief wants to come in and book our well drilling team for their community, they can come in, see how we do it why we do it everything about it

we want to have a little conference room where we can train people up on the wash program because now we're doing that all the villages that we've drilled wells in we're going back in we're doing the wash program water and sanitation and hygiene and so with that i mean if you can have they have outhouses what do they use for they're getting. They're getting them now. And so for the year I was there, there was one or two of the 10 villages we were in had a quote unquote latrine. But it was only like three or four feet deep, which isn't isn't a safe. So most of them are just going in the woods. Yeah. And honestly, like that's if.

Yeah. Until you do it the right way with because outside of there's some of those some of those latrines in the cities man i i definitely think i've gotten sick from a fly that maybe landed there so i mean i don't know but um but yeah so we get to go in there now teach them how to dig the latrines make sure it's way far enough away from the the water well um and then you know outside of the that's another issue too right it can contaminate the water if you want if you have to keep um what is i think 30 meters away uh or more um any latrines um and then if it's a uh like a what is that a dump trash dump um it has to be 50 meters or more

if there's any batteries different stuff like that in it um and so yeah we make sure and this is what's nuts so uh one of my last trips i went and we're going through uganda on the border of congo and there's these people that are so proud of their water well and i i love that but then i feel like the people who ever did it um i don't know cut them really short. They shouldn't be drilling wells because I went in the restroom and then all of a sudden I look out the window and I'm at a gas station. Uganda is a lot nicer than Congo. I mean, there's still terrible, brutal poverty parts of that, but just night and day difference. And whenever I looked out, I see's here's an 18 wheeler filling up

here's someone else filling up and in between that i'm i'm at the toilets at the other side there's a trash dump there's 18 wheelers and trucks filling up with fuel and right in the middle of the two fuel pumps is a water well oh god they drilled it on the on the lot of the gas station with a trash dump with with latrines and toilets. Oh, God. And so it was completely contaminating. And the line was so long. And Ben was trying to tell him, like, hey, just want to tell you because we love you,

that water is really not safe. Same thing. Matt kind of ingrained that into us to where it's like, you know, you got to do it the right way. And so Ben was taught that so this was a recent well that these guys had put in and it was one of the and there's a big line of people to try to get to this i'm telling you there was at least 20 30 people in line um and ben was trying to tell him in the most appropriate way possible to like not crush the hopes and dreams of the village there but he also wanted to know like hey, hey, this water can, it looks safe.

It's not. And so that's why we're testing our wells. Whatever happened in that, did you have to leave? Yeah, I mean, it's a town we don't, I've been in the town maybe twice. But yeah, it was the first time I saw it, the last time. Jesus. Yeah. So, but that's what's crazy.

A lot of people don't know like uh i think it's no i know it is half the hospital beds in the world right now are because of dirty water or water borne related diseases half half in the world so if if we were able to if if as human beings if we could join forces unite kind of like everyone did against ebola you know if we attack the problem head-on and just because we got it we don't pretend everybody else has it like we could really end this thing we could uh we could fix it like the the tools are there the water is there it's under our feet um and here we waste it and there we there uh there they don't have it we don't hear about ebola anymore it's like it's over it's under our feet um and here we waste it and there we there uh there they don't have it we

don't hear about ebola anymore it's like it's over it's like they moved on to zika zika zika zika yeah all the olympians are gonna get it yeah they're fucked yeah all of them oh this is crazy when i got back uh they were the cdc was testing me um two different rounds of treatments trying to figure out what so on that trip i told you going in i got malaria right now malaria i keep meaning to ask you this if you have malaria can someone else get it from you no if a mosquito stings you while you have malaria then sting somebody else they can't get it uh i mean that's that's what i never heard of i mean i've never thought of that one.

Remember that when people were worried about that with HIV? They were worried about mosquito transmission. That was like the big thing. Keep away from gay people in the summer. No, I had never thought of that. But I know that. Don't shoot hair in the swamp. I know that the doctors, they're always saying you're, you're

fine. I mean, I can, I can fight and everything else. That's crazy. My blood and you have malaria and you can fight. Yeah. But I, I literally don't, because it's in my liver, I think you would have to go into the liver unless it was a current outbreak that. What about a liver kick?

You got liver kicked? Don't, don't let out that secret. Just kidding. liver kick if you got liver kicked don't don't let out that that's a good just kidding um no but it's it's it's been a lot of fun to i don't know i think what maybe kind of shifted was that kind of growing up you know getting bullied you're only looking at why am i getting bullied and all this stuff's true and i am not a good person and then or nobody likes me whatever then when i got 23 fighting still not really fulfilled i was living for more for myself there and i'm like man what what am i doing with my life and now it's so cool because

seeing that and being able to tell you that last time i was here 20 water wells or 25, but regardless we've, we've done 20 or 25 more. And so that to me is a life that I get to look at. And if I were to, if I were to die, I know, I know without a shadow of a doubt that my life meant something. And I know that I would have, I never felt that before during the depression, addiction and all that other stuff. But now I know that the life I live hopefully will outlive my life. You know, like the, I want this team to do what they're doing, climb higher than I can climb, run farther than I can run, jump higher than I can jump. You know, like I want my, what's that saying? I want my, uh, ceiling to be their floor. I want them to, to go farther than I can jump. You know, like I want my, what's that saying? I want my, uh, ceiling to be

their floor. I want them to, to go farther than I can go because then that means that I actually made a impact that matters, that mattered to them enough that it continued, that it had a residual effect. It just kept, kept on going. And man, that's, that's really shifted kind of, kind of everything in my life. Like, man, this is, this is what life is about. Like if I was, I've been signing my book recently or ever since it came out, but I signed it live to love, love to live. And I know that can sound cheesy or goofy or whatever, but that's something that just really helped me whenever i was sobering up was man if that's what i focus on if i can live my life to love love then i'll love to live but everyone wants to love their own life that they live and so they're just focused on that and get this and

get this materialistic thing and get this different chick because she didn't make me happier you know this or that or whatever whenever it's like you know what like hey let's focus let's i don't know if that's if i think there's a natural inclination to gravitate towards unattainable things like ferraris and mansions and you see those things on tv and the movies and you just that shows you that you've made it and when you don't have anything and you're wanting for things you don't have anything and you're wanting for things, you don't have money and you're struggling, you look at someone who's got all those things and money and you think, if I only had that, all my worries would be gone and then I would be happy. But if you have that and nobody likes you, your life is shit.

Yeah. It's still shit. Meanwhile, you are in a hut in the middle of nowhere, well, in the middle of the Congo, with all these people, and you're having a great time. And you're making wells, and you're loving life. That picture that came up, I think why I got so excited was because that night in that village, I mean, we, I'm not kidding, danced and danced and danced and, and, and, and, and feasted. I mean, we, we just all came together just to celebrate,

celebrate life, celebrate each other, celebrate, guess what? Our kids aren't gonna be sick anymore. Different stuff like that to where, Oh, it's just a life where like, like what you were just saying, Oh, it's just a life where like, like what you were just saying, you always comparing, comparing, comparing for me, man, comparison. I think for most people, um, comparison is probably the number one thief where robs us of joy of, of being able to be at peace is we're always comparing ourselves and we always compare up. We never compared down. Right.

Um, or just compare ourselves to people that are just like us. We always look at that. What you're saying is unattainable. And I'm always pursuing that. And my whole thing has been like recently, man, I just want, I think I've learned it from our team in Congo. Like that's been the greatest gift. Like you were saying that, you know, there's been a lot of great stuff that's been happening. And that's true.

But I mean, I started thinking and now I think it sounds cliche, but I'll say it anyways, where, man, like they've given me more of a gift than I can. I can give them. I mean, you see, I told you that growing up and everything else, but to find a life of of purpose of passion of helping one another of i don't know our mission statement is defend the weak love the unloved empower the voiceless and the vision statement is overcoming oppression with overwhelming opportunity and so if we can go into these communities and we've seen incredible stuff that's what's going to be in the dock this last trip. Me, Ben, Matt, and Derek, the filmmaker, we would not be, they wouldn't be ashamed of me saying this. We were in tears after an interview with one of the former slave masters that ran a hospital.

And actually, if you could pull up a picture, it's called Kaptula. And we were at this this hospital and it's tough because um we were trying to get treatment for captula he's a he's a buddy of mine that passed away um and we spent seven months taking the hospital taking the hospital taking the hospital and they're just sending them away because it was a pygmy and and it's like i knew whenever i first saw him actually uh if you bring up the maybe the first Kaptula one, that's when I saw him. That's when I saw him for the very first time. Oh, look at our guy.

It's extremely emaciated. Yeah. And so for me. So what is going on with his health right here? Right there. We didn't know. But I had a gut feeling that it could have been tuberculosis because we've helped several of the pygmies that have tuberculosis and stuff. Little girl like Fina and some others.

What's the root cause of tuberculosis? There was some sort of a study on that recently. It's in the lungs. You have a low immune system. There was something that just came out like really recently about tuberculosis. It had something to do with fire. about tuberculosis. Were there... It had something to do with fire.

Hmm. Oh, if it's something to do with smoke, I believe that because the fire is a blanket. Bacteria spread from person to person through microscopic droplets released in the air can happen when someone in the untreated active form of tuberculosis coughs, speaks, sneezes, spits, laughs, or sings.

Jesus Christ. Imagine getting tuberculosis from a shitty song. Like some dude breaks out the banjo like that scene in Animal House. He breaks out a guitar and starts singing and he gives you tuberculosis as well as an ear beating. But see if there's some connection with fire. I swear I read something really recently about that. Some connection between tuberculosis.

Is that it? Here it is. Was tuberculosis born of fire? By damaging lungs and bringing people together, fire may have turned a soil microbe into a global pathogen. Whoa. Many thousands of years ago, chillyricanite that's interesting so they think that might have started it around around a fire in a cave and that they're always in the fire i can't i can't sleep with that's why the bugs are even worse on me because

i i have many times slept in the huts whenever the fire's going but it just fills up with smoke where my eyes are just tears are coming down my face they light a fire in their hut yeah that's there that's how they keep the bugs out mm-hmm oh well it's one of the ways but it's mainly for warmth but a benefit is there's less bugs and it can help waterproof their their twig and leaf huts where enough smoke and everything. It kind of, I think it's like a tar soot. Yeah. That shit's in your lungs too though, right?

Of course. Yeah. And there's so many kids that are at this sustainable solutions center that we're hoping to get up and running. We're wanting one for cooking where they can use either corn cobs or corn husk or peanut shells or different things where they can put those into little briquettes. And they can use that and recycle it and everything else. And it burns longer at the same temperature. And you're not having to deforest anything, and you're not breathing in that terrible smoke. Yeah, coconut charcoal is a really – there's some company, a grill company, Kamado company.

You know what a Kamado is? One of those Japanese grills. Yeah. It's like a green egg, that kind of thing. And they sell charcoal made out of coconut. And apparently it's like one of the best charcoals because it's like really sustainable. It's really easy to grow. And it's apparently slow burning.

Yeah. Yeah. Waste it. You just throw it away. So what if we recycle it? Exactly. People throw the outside of the coconut away, but apparently it's really good for charcoal.

So Bellator has embraced this narrative. They've embraced your story and they've made it a big part of your fighting there to let everybody know that you're doing it not just because you want to compete, not just because you want to compete, but also because you want to expose the world to this passion, this project, this,

this, this sort of life direction that you've taken. Yeah, absolutely. And I, it's really cool that they've done that. Yeah, no,

I, I agree. And that's, that was the, I love, I do. I love the UFC. That's what I was 13 years old, found the tapes. And, um, just on that real quick, uh, I bottle those tapes, put them under my bed and I would wait for my parents to go to work or to go to sleep. And I'd be popping them in, uh, the, you know, the VHS and, uh, my dad comes in and I turn it off real quick lay down act like I'm asleep and

it's you know the VCRs the VHS is still moving and the the I don't know the screen still lit up and everything my dad confiscated that tape then when he found the rest he thought it was uh all porn but it was uh it was just the UFC why did he confiscate it uh well I think me being 13 being picked on it you don't want me to start fighting people at school and different stuff and so just uh just a precaution but you know he told my mom uh he's gonna do that one day if we let him keep that stuff and i was like no i won't but in my head i'm like yeah i will i remember looking at the vhs tape and when i turned it over and saw the the jujitsu and sumo boxing and wrestling and all these different things, like it came alive to me.

And it's like, oh, my goodness, like these guys. Well, I think I originally connected with it because I'm like, well, these guys aren't anything like me. They could stick up for themselves. They're an athlete. They're popular probably. Instead of being the laughingstock at the party, they might be invited to the party or it might be their party. And so, I mean, I like that aspect, but then I just fell in love with the sport of it.

You know, watching it and seeing how everything, and now being a fan and watching how it's evolved and everything else, it's just, it's not seeing a guy like Dan Henderson that's been fighting, I think, isn't it 20 years straight? 20, yeah, 20 straight. I was there when he was fighting in 97, and i wasn't there for his first fights he fought in 96 i think in brazil yep i think that was his actually i actually watched that uh first fight in the last couple weeks really yeah because uh dude i i love dan um dan's awesome yeah and see him even i mean because whenever he stepped in he was just a wrestler

that had heavy hands but then he's just well he didn't even have heavy hands in the beginning yeah you're right in the beginning he was just a wrestler

lay down and take him down and pound on him yeah he figured out over time how to utilize his power that's what I want to get

maybe I could bribe Dan or Big Country or someone to teach me that big right hand just to do you think you could teach me that big right hand. Do you think you could teach someone that?

I don't know. I mean, Dan's one of the few guys that have sort of developed it. Just pick their brain enough, you know, like, come on. But Big Country always had power. Big Country was known way back in the day as being a jiu-jitsu guy. He was one of Mark Lehman's guys. And he was, you know, like really respected as a grappler. Yeah, black belt. Yeah, but to go from that to being this

Crazy knockout brawler. It's what people rarely see big country. You never see him submit anybody I mean the closest thing was when he took Kimbo down and got him into the Mount of Crucifix and just elbowed him until the referee Stopped the fight But man and I was on that season I think through a couple elbows, but when they finally stopped it, we were all counting every single punch. But he was just tapping his forehead like this because it wasn't intelligently defending himself. He didn't even have to hurt him to stop the fight. No, he was just tapping his forehead.

Well, it's almost like when you, what is that called in wrestling? When you have so many points, it's a technical. Yeah, tech fall. Tech fall. Almost like that. It's like, you're never coming back from this. Yeah, it's like a 10 run rule in little league baseball. Yeah. 10 points up, you just call it.

The big country's got very good submissions. But everybody expected that from him when he started fighting. Like, if you remember back when he was fighting for Elite XE, which was like the most corrupt organization in the early days of mma he had andre olavsky down inside control up working for a camorra right had that yep had side control and had that double wrist lock position and he was working for the camorra and they stood him right up and i remember watching tv going it's corrupt yeah it's cool we're screaming at the TV, it's corrupt! They had a 15-second rule. Like, if it went to the ground, if nothing happened in 15 seconds.

I think Jake Shields submitted Paul Daly. It was one of the few submissions in Elite XC. But he just mounted him and just immediately went to an armbar and locked it in. Was it Paul Daly? I think it's Paul Daly. I might be wrong. I was actually... Yeah. Was it Paul Daly? I think it's Paul Daly. I might be wrong. I was actually, well, I mean, now with the Kimbo stuff happening, it's pretty, I mean, it's very, very sad.

Yeah, man. I mean, apparently he had a doctor telling him, you know, for people who don't know what we're talking about, Kimbo died really recently of heart disease. And he had a doctor telling him recently that he needed a heart transplant. I guess he had some sort of congenital heart disease. I mean, how could that be? You know, you look at him. The guy's a stud. He's in great shape.

I mean, how could you imagine that? His heart was so bad that they were telling him he needed a heart transplant. And this, yeah, this could probably sound cliche again, too, but because knowing him, being an ultimate fighter and, uh, and him cooking the best steak I've ever had. Sorry, big Josh. Um, uh, but he, uh, I don't know. He had, even though he had a bad heart, I think, I don't know, emotionally had a good heart.

And, um. He was always a good guy. Always a very friendly guy. Yeah. a good guy always a very friendly guy yeah even even with um i mean technically we were supposed to fight i think three times before or two times elite xc i was my name was in the hat for that um and then because i was like a 19 or 20 year old kid i had a decent record and then um but it was bad matchup and so they scrapped it i I get it. Wasn't smart. Then, uh, then on the ultimate fighter, I was actually matched up with them.

And, uh, then Roy got it. Um, and then we were talking about it in Bellator where at our last fight, um, February 19th, I think Houston Toyota center,

um, and backstage, uh, Oh, actually that was, uh, this, this will be good in a way that the dude just loved on Ben, my brother and translator from Congo.

He got to actually come from Congo for my second fight. And so the first fight, actually, if you can pull up that video, it's called Fight Day, talking to my Congo guys. But it's less than a minute i think and it's they they surprised me for my first fight back um they surprised josh woke me up and it was a guy that's like my father figure a guy that's like my brother and uh just awesome fight day my first thing you see and here's this this was so awesome who is this that's laying down to you ask me is that your voice yeah yeah you can't fall in from the shittiest angle ever I couldn't even tell it's you I see it's a beard Yeah, you can't follow him from there, but we'll record it. The shittiest angle ever.

I couldn't even tell it's you. It's a beard. A talking beard. Yeah. I miss you guys. My heart's happy now. I think you can stop it in a minute. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes, sir. The battle's already won. Before the fight. Hey, you go back to kong you can stop it now and then um it was uh it was really cool like i mean josh was filming because he didn't want i guess it was a surprise they were going to call me and anything else but they were in uganda getting more well drilling supplies and because you can't you can't skype from from congo right so they were at a decent enough hotel

that had wi-fi and uh they were able to skype with me the day of my first fight back and uh man it was awesome that was that was so much motivation seeing them hearing them and then having them come for the second fight was just uh and be there you know he was actually he was actually in my corner yeah what you're doing is helping them by building wells. Is there once you do that, like, say, if you establish a series of wells and well building and everybody has fresh water, do you want to take it another step? Did you did you want to try to give them safer housing or cleaner housing? Do you want to try to teach them how to build houses? Are you are you planning on escalating it from where you're at right now?

Yeah. In fact, I went about it and it was a learning lesson. I don't regret it because I got some great training here in California. I think it's called Hesperia, California. And there's something called Cal Earth. And they build eco domes or earth bag homes. And they call them super adobe, the technical term. But they make, it looks like pygmy huts, out of sandbags that they fill up with sand,

do it in a circle, and supposedly they're earthquake-proof, tornado-proof, all this different stuff. This is it? Yeah, right there. And a dome is the strongest structure known to man. An arch is after that, or a vault, then an arch. But yeah, I was in these exact uh buildings that's like a hobbit house what a cool looking little house house quetzalcoatl back up but i

i went there because uh they call it quetzalcoatl that's an aztec god right that's that aztec snake snake feathered plume serpent god costa rica that might be oh okay that makes sense cal earth green build i actually love all those guys there they have we have a lot of like-minded um beliefs of of how to help people and uh but yeah i loved it because housing what because i slept in the huts the first two times i went and got rained on and literally one time woke up in the mud like sunk halfway because it just rained and rained and rained and rained. And just lying in mud.

Yeah, to where it just kept coming through. It was just washing down the hill. Wow. And when my wife was there, I was doing it again. And all the pygmies get up. And they came out and I didn't know what they were doing. I thought something was going on because everyone was around our hut in a circle digging this trench so it wouldn't come in and get Emily wet. Wow. They're just so so caring so awesome and uh but when i saw the huts those ecodomes earthbag homes

i was like man that's something culturally sound yeah that is something that they would want to live in because it looks like that it looks like their hut similar um and so this is something that you want to try to implement with without a doubt but it has to be the right timing because what happened was I knew Papawai and the school was working on land and I was going to help with that too. I had no clue how to get clean water. I was looking for it. I was in my backyard. I bought everything from Lowe's. I'm in my backyard and it was like a website.

I think it's literally something like howt to drill your own well.org or something and it's this guy i stand on the back of his pickup truck and he's he's drilling a well but what i didn't know is that's not drinkable water the way he's doing it and everything else and so i'm in the backyard like five six hundred dollars of lowe's stuff with pvc trying to drill my own well by myself um and uh trying to learn but i'm like man this is so hard there's got to be an easier way and so i kind of stepped around that because i'm like you know what i can't help them with housing if i go here get trained sandbags are cheap get a couple shovels make some mud and get some cement and make a plaster to go around it to waterproof it better um and that's going to work but then what kind of plaster um i was make it make it out of a mix of uh cement and um soil

and uh if if it's got the right mixture which i'm forgetting right now um it can be just as strong as uh or waterproof as like concrete or yeah so it's uh it's a really great thing but when i get there and all of a sudden i see you know hey uh first if they don't have any land of their own then building these things are going to be worthless someone else can move into them and uh so they gotta have land first there's a process like the most important things land in the water because water's next then food and after that yes if you can be housey I want to stay in a sweet spot and in a lane and not spread ourselves too thin because we are real focused. But have you thought about these people that you dealt with in California, trying to bring them in and have them take over that aspect of it? Yes, that would be cool.

The only thing that we are is we try to be really protective of the pygmies. And because I don't bring in a lot of outsiders, most outsiders that visit them, it's not a good experience. And so just bringing a lot of random people, if it was a couple of people that are really highly skilled, had the right hearts, their vision lined up with our vision of how we kind of do the community development. Cause we want to, there's a, I think there's a great book. I think it's called, uh, helping without hurting or how to help without hurting or something like that. And, um, I have it, I should know it. Um, I have two of them and it's, it's really great about how you can go about helping people in a way that helps them more than helps you in a way of like a lot of people help because it's going to make them feel warm and fuzzy. And, um, and,

and yeah, and you just do that enough for random people. But what if you can make a difference that, that lasted longer? And it's great to do both, right? It's great to do both. Um, I actually love when I see someone else do some random act of kindness, like it warms my heart. I love it. But how can we help in a way that really changes the game of things there? I think you're definitely already doing that.

I mean, you're certainly spreading it. I think you feel like it's a long job and your job's not nearly done. No, I don't think it ever will be. Well, for water, I have definitely hope for that. done but no i don't think it ever ever will be well for water i have definitely hope for that but then i don't know i think i just feel i don't know whenever you how is it when you have that heart connection it's kind of like well i want to see these people if they have ever if they have everything i got too like i still still want to hang out with them all i can of course but um no you know what though it's been really cool to see um so there's these guys from uganda that came in and helped train us and they're

called young men drillers and there are these guys that were you've heard of the lra and joseph coney and different stuff like that one of the guys was he told me around a campfire that he was one of two, it might have been three, survivors out of a three, four, five hundred person village. The rebel groups came in, killed everybody. He barely escaped. And then another kid, another kid. And it's so cool to see these young guys all of a sudden stand up and Waterford got involved with them and trained them up on how to drill wells in their own country. And these, when I say young men drillers, like I someone were 16 17 18 when they started well then all of a sudden they cranked out over 100 water wells over 100 water wells they've been doing it longer than we have we haven't done any i'm in the congo we try to get them out to us to

help matt comes in to train us and to continue training with them and then they were going to leave that team you got the main three guys from young man drillers behind to train us to invest And impart their knowledge in us Matt was doing real intensive training and then these guys were going to stick around for the next three months Make sure we could bust out, you know, a few wells and do it the right way And so it's so cool. They came and stayed with us. And so cool to see that they've gone through all that, where one of the guys, it was probably every other night or every three nights,

he's waking up in night terrors where he is just screaming. And I've, I'd never been around that before. Um, but the things he saw, the things he's been through are just so tough. But then to see he chose that he's going to take a different path he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna find something that he can help people with and he's gonna give it to others

in a different country in congo so they came and lived with the pygmies for three years or three months it was awesome now uh ben and a couple of our other drillers are in cameroon um and i i kind of had this thing that i haven't really spoken out, but I would love to see the pygmies in Congo all have water. But then after that, the other pygmies are suffering in very similar ways

to the pygmies in Congo. And so what's so cool is that, okay, the young man drillers comes out, invests in us, pours their hearts and lives. They almost died coming to us. Their car flipped, ran over a lady A taxi driver was driving. He ran away. She died. Oh fuck. They ran over a lady

No, they didn't the cab driver cab driver did and he bailed he was from Congo They were from Uganda and at the border they had to get in with a Congolese taxi driver Well, they do that and they can't even speak the same language and he gets in a wreck. He knows Congo. He does that drive all the time to the border. And so he just bails and literally the people in a place called Nyoka, which means a snake. It was a place of a rebel group that used to be there and everything. And so it was a very, very bad part of town.

There's gold mines on both sides of them. Luckily, this lady took them in and held them in there and called the military because people literally had an app whenever they not the military, but the cops. And it was just a little shack. I mean, were people going to kill them because they thought that she killed the woman? Yes. And in there, it doesn't matter if, you know, you're guilty and we'll ask questions later. And someone it's mob justice someone's got to pay if this person just hurt somebody even if you weren't driving even if you

were right one of our guys was thrown from the vehicle the car went rolled um and running away fearing for their lives they had uh i think fifteen thousand dollars of well drilling equipment in the trunk. Plus they had a, a solar pump, solar filter, and it did like 400 gallons of water a day and, or 400 liters, a hundred gallons. And anyways, they loot it.

They, I think they set the car on fire. I know they looted it, but then at the police station, little shack, people outside had machetes, literal torches. They like those hose hose for farming.

What else did they have? Oh, tires. They were going to put tires around them and set them on fire. Oh, God. And so luckily, man, I, yeah, very luckily it was a miracle that Papa Y is such a great, like, like i don't know he's a peacekeeper like he can go somewhere and talk with anyone that's having a dispute and bring him to some sort of agreement and uh he was able to go out there on behalf of our uganda guys doesn't even really know him yet gets them out and while they're leaving papa y is really respected because of uh you know he he's

actually helping people in their country like people know him when he's walking around because he's like oh those are the that's the crew that's actually putting what they're learning into action. And so he went up there and as they were getting ready to leave, someone came up to him and whispered to him and says, we know where all your stuff is. And he's like, what? Like everything that was stolen. He's like, I think it was something like he said it to him there or later, why they didn't keep it and why they gave it back. But whenever they got there, it was the case. They broken the lock, opened it up.

And was, oh, one of them, they opened up that solar pump. It's got these two different, oh man, I'm losing my words, but canisters on it. And they left it because they thought it was a bomb. Oh, God. And so they left that and all our well-drawn equipment, and we were able to reclaim everything, get them to us. They lived with us for three months. Then there are supply chain from Uganda to Congo. I'll wrap this up where it's so cool to see where now, no joke, the guys that came out to learn from Cameroon that work with the pygmies in cameroon

are named uh willie and turbo those are their their names from cameroon and uh actually that that uh that big heavyweight um what is his name he's in the ufc now uh francis and gong yeah francis yeah now he's him in czech congo both um from Congo. I believe I'm not sure which one he's from good. No, it's huge Yeah, dude. He is fucking you beast just a scary guy man. Yeah, and both those guys ended up in France because They're French speaking countries right both Congo and Cameroon and so just cool to see how how the trickle effect comes from these guys That are lucky to be alive. Then from growing up, then they're lucky to be alive coming to help us. Then they decide to stay in the country that they were almost murdered in for an extra three months so that we get it down to where we really know what we're doing. And then they can go back and we have this great relationship, but now another can come and learn from us. And now we're doing and then they can go back and we have this great relationship but now another can come and learn from us and now we're sending our team out to different parts of the continent

to rwanda to kenya to cameroon to um i think rwanda uganda and training up these other teams of that are wanting they have a desire to uh to do the same thing that's such a crazy story man they're so lucky oh they'll stick them in tires and light them on fire yeah I saw a guy fuck man Ben and I both saw a guy beat to death because they called him a thief and rumors were that we were kind of far away I tried to get up kind of kind of too scary close bins literally pulling my shirt away. I tried to get up kind of, kind of too scary close. Ben's literally pulling my shirt away. Cause I'm seeing this, I don't know who he is and he's getting beaten, kicked and all this other stuff. But Ben's like, F8, we got to go. We got to go.

And so he pulled me away. And then when we came back later, I couldn't even bend my body like that. Like it's like a contortionist kind of thing where he's like bent up like a pretzel and just laying there. And, um, supposedly the rumor was that just some drunk guys started a rumor called him a thief called him a thief and when someone says thief they pounce on the on the thief and so sometimes it's really a thief or whatever but um and other times it's some innocent guy and you know it can crazy stuff can happen yeah i can only imagine yeah and uh but it's you've seen some shit dude man it's been uh it's been different but i wouldn't change it it's it's beyond it literally is is wild like i couldn't i couldn't uh i couldn't have dreamed it up for myself and what's what's kind of funny is, um,

I think not funny. It's actually, uh, have you ever heard of, I think it's a book called what they don't teach you at Harvard or what they don't teach you at Harvard business or something like that. No, I think the author's name is Mark. Um,

well, he did something pretty incredible. And, um, I heard, I heard about it when I was in high school, but Kenny Monday, um, which he got to, it came full circle. it when i was in high school but kenny monday um which he got to it came full circle he coached me in high school then for my comeback fight and he coached

me a little bit in mma at the beginning but then for my comeback fight and this last one he was in my corner um but anyways he told me you know hey if you want to wrestle go home write down your goals like write them down and this book talks about how if, um, they pulled some class, some senior class in at Harvard and asked who has goals that are, um, who, who knows their goals. And some like 87% didn't know, like besides I'll get my college degree from Harvard and then I'll figure it out. Then they asked who knows, who knows your, um, I think that was 87% of them or something like that. And then, uh, or 83% something. And, um, then it was, it was, uh, 13% or something like that, where they had, um, I'm sorry, I'm screwing this up,

but it was, uh, they, it's an incredible stat. It's so 87 or 83 percent didn't know their goals 13 or 17 percent did know their goals but they didn't have them written down and then only three percent of the class had written concise direct goals of what they wanted to do in their life i think they went back 10 years later and the ones that had goals but didn't have them written down were making twice as much on average than all the other 83 or 87 percent that didn't have goals and then the people that had written down goals they were making 10 percent 10 times yeah 10 times as all the other 97 combined here was why three percent of harvard mbas make 10 times as much as the other 97 combined harvard mba program is extremely competitive and today admits approximately

15% of the applicants. In the 1960s acceptance rate was about 30% down to 25% in the 1970s, fluctuated between 10 and 15% ever since. Students who make it past the application process are typically standouts and already fairly successful by most

traditional definitions. They have an undergraduate degree, typically three to five years of work experience. Hold on. Uh, and when considered suitable for acceptance into the Harvard business school, blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah. So, okay. So it's explaining about writing your goals down. Yeah. And having a clear direction. Right.

Makes sense. And, and, um, for, for me and seeing that hearing that and then having coach monday tell me that um honestly wrestling mma having a goal to focus on having a goal to write down um i think that really helped me escape the depression for for a while

for a few years um because now I found something that I could focus on and I was passionate about it. I could, you know, that was my outlet. And, um, but he, he also told me one step further. I don't think I've said this publicly publicly, but, um, he told me right down, be that you, what's your goal? I'm like, I want to be a state champion. And he said, okay, go home, write that down and, uh, put it somewhere. You can see it either on your, and he said, okay, go home, write that down, and put it somewhere you can see it, either on your bathroom mirror or somewhere.

I put it above my bed, but I didn't never write down state champion. I wrote down national champion. Started working towards it with state champion that year. Having a great, great training partner, and I'm kind of jazzed up that the Olympics is coming up. I know some guys that are going. Robbie Smith, he's a heavyweight. He was my roommate at the Olympic training center and Travelle Delagniv. We wrestled together, um, in high school and then after. And, um, so I'm pumped

about it, but see these guys obtaining their goals, their dreams, um, and writing them down. Well, then with coach Monday, he's like, Hey, get some of your favorite wrestling moves, some pictures, like, so you can visualize it. And I just see the words, but see the actual thing that you want to do, like see it. And so I went and I put one wrestling move on the left and another on the right. And, uh, and man, I just would go to sleep dreaming about it basically, and wake up motivated to, to attain that gold national champion. And having a guy that's olympic gold medalist teaching you the basics like you you'll get good quick that way but um also having the goals like i the first national championship i won um was with the move on the left and the second national

championship was with move on the right um and it was, it was nuts to see how all that works out. And looking back on this book and seeing like, man, you gotta write down and I need to update that now. Um, I've been working on it and everything else, but, uh, I think a lot of us do. Yeah. I think focusing on one individual goal like that or writing something down, having a very clear thing that you're working towards, it takes away a lot of the ambiguity about that people have about wanting to be successful, you people have about wanting to be successful you know just wanting to be successful just wanting to do well that's not enough you have to have like a real like something that you're looking towards something you're moving and working towards a plan and initiative yeah well that's probably one of the biggest um

strengths that our team has has had uh the 18, the 18 employees we have. Um, and at water for, we write down what we want to do. And it's so cool. When I came on the show the first time, um, I had gone and I'd only experienced the terrible stuff, like nothing good had happened yet. Um, only corruption and me holding the little guy that died and and all this just brutal stuff but it came back and like finally was like okay i can't say no anymore i gotta do something and so let's just write it down and do it and start speaking about it and throwing it out there um and then to see the other team like they're coming in with uh with the real like here's the big vision stuff but here's filling in all the details

how we're going to get it done and man my my first time to write things down was one water well on 300 acres of land and maybe we could build a school and get a teacher and they would help with education because the pygmies don't have any representation in the government because nobody is educated and that's their excuse at least in Congo what I hear and so it's like school that'd be great one water well and 300 acres and now it's by the end of this year will be 3,000 acres of that's incredible they literally own there'll be 10 times more 45 wells 45 wells that's amazing employees we've got three working farms right now over how long how many years you've been doing this now uh five um that's pretty incredible man over five for sure that's an

incredible commitment well thanks it it's been a yeah it's been an awesome watch even even like being able to go back and had all these pictures to show you but uh leo may growing papaya trees and standing in front of banana trees and um all the different stuff and they're growing with the water that they're getting from the wells well it's the rainforest and everything so it's it's pretty fertile yeah you can spit a seed on the ground that's gonna it's gonna sprout up wow in the rainforest well that's great too are you bringing seeds over there for these people and is that a big part they have they have pretty good seeds um there and uh a lot of those trees were doing seedlings and they take them and they know how to

garden and farm and all that stuff yeah especially at the university because they have a whole agriculture department that teams up with the community development department so they come and teach the pygmies how to do it yeah they come in and teach them and then uh they start learning how to do it for themselves and this was okay I think I can tell you two moments real quick where going back and seeing Leo may and walking in and seeing all those banana trees blew me away. And then now there is just so cool. Cause I was leaving and there's a little guy named Jippy and I've seen him grow up of,

of watching him grow up. And I saw whenever his, his water source was absolutely disgusting. Like you could not ever imagine a human being drinking, drinking it. And, uh, that was,

what am I looking at? That was their water source where they got water. What is that? It's, uh, this little stagnant pond kind of thing with all this moss over it that's a pond yeah now what's so cool is this picture green yeah no it's there's no big water at all there's definitely it's a big thick thing so they'll get a stick and they'll push

all the moss to jamie this photo that's what i i had and then it all lost um on the uh oh do you know man oh what the people could see oh oh i see oh how's that working that's ridiculous and what is it what what is wrong with the uh connection to you it didn't uh i don't have that photo oh no it doesn't have the photo because everything like crashed on me i had dude i i didn't even sleep last night at all zero because i was trying to send videos uh to water for an update video, and it was at my hotel. It's a little roach motel, but it took like two hours to send one video, and then I had to do another, another. Oh, Jesus Christ.

And then all of a sudden, it just, I lost the PowerPoint and it went back to. Well, speaking of videos, let's watch the video that you said Bellator did for you. Yeah, yeah, that'd be great. Let's watch that. I want to see that. what is this one i'm looking at right here that's uh where we drilled one of the new wells what is those things in their hands jerry cans they're filling oh oh i see okay yeah in fact okay so let's play this. Foundations. Justin Wren versus Josh Burns. The story of that fight was the time off of a very talented fighter.

He'd been away from the sport for years. One of those guys, when he was active, when he was at his peak, was considered one of the hottest prospects in the heavyweight division. Talented wrestler, aggressive, well-rounded, well-coached. But the time off, the ring rust, the time away from the sport against Josh Burns, a guy who traditionally wasn't a very fast starter, we thought he'd have time to warm up, and he didn't. Burns came right after him, a guy I think was trying to take advantage of the fact that Wren had been off for so long.

Wren handled it extremely well. Ren had been away from it a long time, so you could see the surprise. You could see the fatigue. You could see the questioning of himself. You could see those times when things started working out and it started coming back to him. The story of all his time off was on his face and was in his performance. That's a guy making up for time off in one fight.

What's easy to forget with Justin Wren's story, with him helping out the Pygmies, with all he's done socially, with all he's done politically for that tribe, they can't go in there with him. And the pressure of having a big story on your shoulders. Everybody rooting for you, everybody reading your book. That's not an easy thing to carry into a fight. Everybody talks about how great the story is and what it does for a fighter

and what it does for their career. It's also a gigantic burden. You're not just fighting for yourself anymore. You're fighting for everyone who looks up to you. Winning that night was a big deal for him. People don't understand what he was carrying. He was carrying ring rust, and he was carrying the hopes and dreams of everybody he was fighting for, and he managed it.

Could you go back to 127 real quick and pause it? Just one minute, 27 seconds, because I just... It's not easy. It's great great it's right there so uh the girls on the left through the cage this is the only time this ever happened that's my wife this is her first fight of mine to ever go to or see and we've been together for four or five years and um it's so funny because i was throwing the knees right here and this is the ring dominant crews can say it's uh it's there's not ring rust. He's just Way too mentally tough and and stubborn and he's wake him the awesome competitor

But dude, I won I didn't train like I really should have yeah, I'm sure that had a big factor Yeah, and two it was a man it but one of the ring rust kind of things was I could hear the commentators and I could I looked out first person i see is my wife and i see her make eye contact with her like we stared into each other's eyes and i know this is gonna sound goofy but uh uh she had a new outfit on and i'm just like she's beautiful and then all of a sudden i see her and she's like go and also i'm gonna fight and he's like punching me and i'm just like oh crap so uh no it was in in actually right there was the closest part where i almost finished him there with some some knees or could have should have would have and um and then i stop

look out at my wife see her and grace which she came to congo with us too and uh i see them and i'm like what am i doing after the fight i instantly thought what was i doing in the fight looking out seeing my wife and thinking she's beautiful so uh i don't know why i brought that up except for this really yeah i mean it was it was unique and um it was a it was a blessing and that video actually was uh i'm glad to show it because of that but then um i meant to show you the one that came first, which we don't need to play that, but what happened for the first fight back,

which is kind of nuts, that the guy surprised me and called me in the morning and I was able to see him and they were able to encourage me for the fight and say, we know you're fighting for us, all that. It's really great. Then Emily sent me a picture of her. It's so awesome. Her with like 10 or 12 kids around her and they all have the biggest smiles she says remember

um remember who uh you fight for and why you fight and so there's a lot of pressure it is but at the same time she she's she's so awesome loves me and i i for some reason i like pressure um i like to be under the gun something like that what's next for you man man i think She's so awesome and loves me. I, for some reason, I like pressure. I like to be under the gun, something like that. What's next for you, man? Man, I think we just got pretty much settled into Colorado and joining the MMA scene up there. Team Takedown was great. It kind of dissolved.

Team Takedown dissolved? Yes takedown dissolved sort of yeah yeah when Johnny Hendricks left is that what I was not on there right but once you left yeah the coaches are gone that came in from out of state no team takedown was a weird situation right it was like some wealthy guy was financing the entire thing right one? One, and he's a great dude. And then he brought in a bunch of other people. But I think for them it was just, I don't know. I think they might have got burned. Well, they had a deal, right, where they would pay guys a salary.

And then when you won. Salary, car, your rent, your groceries. But when you won, you were supposed to give them a percentage of your winnings. I think it was 50% 50 50% but you get your house payment your car your insurance and the health insurance That's great until fighters started making making 10 million bucks and then they're like what yeah Yeah, that's very true because if you're there only spending 50 or 70 years who agreed to that did Johnny Hendricks agree to that? Yeah, he was giving 50% of his purse?

Yeah, I think most every team takedown guy was. Johnny might have been a little, I think his might have been a little different than everybody else's. That seems like a crazy deal. How much were they paying them? I love all the guys. Right. They're awesome dudes. I wouldn't even want to quote it. I know over 50, maybe under 100.

A year? Yeah. Huh. Well, that's a good investment if you get $5 million back. That's true. But I guess it didn't work out because when Johnny started making real money, is that when he left or was there other issues? Yeah, I think it was that.

And then I think internally there was some butting of heads between a few different people, maybe coaches maybe management maybe fighters too and So now you're in Colorado now. I'm in Colorado cuz where you train in Colorado While be my home gym will be grudge training center, which is actually pretty cool. There's a instructor named drew That's pretty great came in he he opened i think he opened up maybe i'm wrong on that one but 10th planet uh jujitsu and i think boulder but now he has one in narvada which is inside of grudge and so now we got a 10th planet in there and he's he's actually showing some slick darce chokes and uh and oh yeah that's awesome and some stuff does bellator

have a fight lined up for you? Maybe, um, maybe November, December where we're looking at that. And the thing that I want to do is getting a real, I haven't given myself time to settle, to really train, to really focus.

And I know that now, um, it's a time crunch, you know, 29. I know that the youngest heavyweight I think is still JDS and junior dos Santos. And, uh, in the top 10, he's 29. I know that the youngest heavyweight, I think, is still JDS and Junior Dos Santos in the top 10. He's 32. I mean, Barnett's, I think, 38.

Heavyweight's 10 to mature later in life. Hunt is 42. Well, Brock is pretty much done now, I think. I think that last positive test, he took two positive tests in a row. Yeah. He got one before the fight, one after the fight. It's most likely one and done. So I got some

time. Are you thinking about going to the UFC? So you have this Bellator deal. Are you enjoying competing for Bellator? I have thoroughly appreciated how they've been treating me. But you're mentioning all these MMA fighters from the UFC.

So are you thinking about going over there? Is that what's going on? I mean, I would never be against that because I love the UFC, love MMA, and that's a big, big platform. How long is your deal at Bellator for? I have two more fights. And so I'll fight two more. And for me, I mean, the reason we're in Colorado first is I'm wanting to get my wrestling back

because I'm pretty disappointed in my first two. I'm honestly winning. This was the first two times winning felt really good because I did it. I didn't do it for me. Right. But then at the same time, right away, the competitor comes in and it's like messed up here here here here here and i think pretty much every guy taking the ground finished it's like why am i trying to outbox the boxers whenever i need to i need to wrestle i need to take them

is it difficult for you to balance the two worlds because you know you have one that demands incredible attention your your fighting career demands incredible attention and then you have the other that also demands incredible attention you you have an amazing commitment to these pygmy people and uh this incredible passion love for it but then you also have you're you're in the most dangerous combat sport in the world i mean it it requires massive attention like we were talking about francis ganoe like if you're gonna fight Gannot, you got to fucking batten down the hatches. You got to be in incredible shape. And for being consistent and dedicated and no excuses.

And that's what left a pretty sour taste in my mouth after these last two fights. Because I knew I hate doing that like uh rushing it or getting in whenever i'm not prepared and um are you training at all when you're in the congo and how often are you in the congo uh now i'm now i'm gonna start going back just after every fight when i fight go back for a couple weeks um i try to be real safe this time i took my own food um like all of it like a entire check bag was just kind bars and Laura bars and all these different green smoothies and different stuff. So I was, I was, I wasn't even eating any food.

They're still got sick. And so had malaria. Then after that, I got shingles, which is crazy. Um, it was completely across my forehead and over here. So that was like the middle of the trip. That's like a back a herpes, right? Isn't that like kind of a herpes? Yeah, I believe so.

But it's the adult form of the chicken pox. And it's brutal. It was a different pain than I've ever felt because it's a nerve pain. And I was out in the forest. And there was a couple, two, three days where we were there, you know, for the documentary, for the water wells, everything else. And we got a team that came. And so we got to we got to get it done. So I kind of stayed back a couple of days.

But then while we're out there and stuff like a rebel group actually came like I believe it was three miles from us and only about a mile away from our truck. And so I'm sick. I can't get back to the hospital that I just came out of from getting treatment for malaria to get treatment for shingles. And then so that was tough. But for me to answer your question, like I want to be I want to be realistic. I want to be realistic but at the same time a quote my mom taught me I forget who it was but she says something like uh um an optimist is someone who goes after Moby Dick in a rowboat and takes the tartar sauce with them and uh so an optimist goes after Moby Dick in a rowboat and takes the tartar sauce with them so for me i want to be i want to swing

for the fences make the biggest impact possible but at the same time like we're restructuring stuff we had meetings at water four and i think just getting everyone on the same page well me too because i was spreading myself too thin the biggest thing possible is the ufc heavyweight championship yeah without a doubt is that first bellator than UFC? Yeah, is that a thought that you have in your mind with well? Yeah, the what will be on? One of those goals. Okay at UFC 200 This could sound goofy to anybody else. I think a lot of athletes would probably get it some might not But you know, I bought a UFC replica belt because I want not going to hang it or anything, but I want to have times where I set that down on a table or a desk and look at it, think about it, dream about it, and know that before I go out the door training, that's a goal of mine. If I could get there, then I know this fight for the forgotten can be set up for maybe the my life there you know it could keep going on and

on further than it would if i didn't realistically to try to attain that sort of a goal like it's going to require more than just staring at a belt or writing something down you're gonna you're gonna need to go on a rampage yeah we've we've uh we've surrounded well water forest surrounded fight for the forgotten with like a team of like eight people from media to my sports agent to lawyers. And I mean, just all these all these people are incredible. And I'm sitting in the room with them at a conference table like this. And I'm like, what am I doing in a room with these incredible people? All focused on you.

Yeah, they're all focused on me and them and the story and like look how i don't know if you'd call it raw or pure or like like and they're getting behind it which has been incredible but then they've just overwhelmed me saying we want to free you up in a way we're kind of talking a little earlier was alluding to it but um you know i really got to readjust everything in my life of how I'm training because when, now that I'm getting settled into Denver, um, I'll go up to Denver one to three times a week. And then I'll also be going to the Olympic training center. I've been talking with Brandon Slay, the old freestyle coach, which he actually just moved

to Penn state. Um, but, uh, talking with, uh, and I have access there at the Olympic training center and about, hopefully I can get in touch with Matt Lland. He's the new head coach for the Greco team there. But with have you ever heard of Adam Wheeler? Adam Wheeler is an absolute beast. And I wonder if I have that video in there. But there's one if you just search Adam Wheeler on YouTube, should be called isopure. But this dude is an Olympic bronze medalist and black belt in jujitsu and he won nogi worlds um heavyweight and so he's a beast just an absolute monster and so uh i was helping him train before the 2008 olympics and stuff and um it was pretty great oh here it is this guy's beast we're not hearing anything jam. I never actually got into wrestling until I was in high school.

There was a point when I started getting in a little bit of trouble and just hanging out with the wrong crowd. My wrestling coach, he's the one that kind of put me back on the right track. He taught me what work ethic was. I try to be the guy who motivates people, pushes people. The most pure moment of my athletic career is 100% the Olympics. Even though I didn't win, I still was on that podium representing my country for the sport that I put so many hours into. That feeling is indescribable.

And the point is, this is a guy you're working with or something? Yeah, and sorry, I probably should have set that up a little better. But this guy is an absolute monster. And we're getting together and we're going to start working out. And he's at Prime Jiu-Jitsu now in Colorado Springs. But they cross-trained with Easton's. And anyways, the thing, I'm all over the place. But he is the only guy I think will be training.

So we're all jumping, doing squat jumps, row by row up these bleachers. And I promise he's skipping one at least and sometimes two. And he's just flying up there. People will be halfway, three quarters of the way. This guy's six foot four, 235 pounds, solid muscle, freakish athlete. And he's just. So there's a training partner for you. Yeah, training partner yeah training partner so I

guess what I was trying to allude to is man I feel like how water forest around me was such an incredible team to achieve success that we won't fight for the forgotten and now I'm really trying to do that with uh with fighting because if I don't then I'm gonna fail and I'll be wasting time but if I because this isn't a it's a, it's not patty cake, right? I mean, we're going in there and we're throwing down and I've got to have my head on straight. Yeah, as you move up in competition, for sure. Oh, without a doubt.

I mean, when you're looking at the competition you faced in Bellator, it's good steps. It's tough guys to fight against. They're good steps. For the timing of everything. Yeah. Yeah, it's not, I guess, swinging for the fences or taking the tartar sauce with me. If I see that it's not going to happen, then, you know, I hate saying that because I want to fight so bad.

But fight for the forgotten is more important in a way. But, man, I think it's possible. I really do. And I think it's possible to be a great fighter. Well, I think you've also brought a lot of people in to help you with Fight for the Forgotten. Yeah. You can sort of pick up the slack as well. And you've started a movement.

I mean, there's a lot going on here besides just your involvement. Right. lot going on here besides just your involvement you've started this movement and being involved with water for and and in writing the book and letting people know about on these podcasts and and educating people to what your goal is and what what you've been able to accomplish over there you started a movement so i think man i mean if you really can do it it would be absolutely incredible and it certainly would shine even more light if you could really become successful as an mma fighter from here on out i i agree with that with but it's going to require everything it requires everything and i feel like there's there's two parts of this where um man the the fight for the forgotten guy in me wants to be uh

wants to be humble and everything else say, you know, it's not going to happen unless I do all the right things, which is the same on the other side of the coin. But I'm, uh, at the same time, I feel like if, if I can just get the time, I haven't been getting the time, uh, to train. And, um, one of the things that, well, you have to make the time. Yeah. We have to make the things that, you have to make the time. Yeah, we have to make the time and it's gotta be the priority. And it's,

I don't think I, it can't be some sort of eight hours. I mean like six, eight, whenever I was telling, uh, the guys at water for, um,

and it's just cause they don't know they've been incredibly supportive. But whenever I broke it down, like when's your training schedule, what time do you train a day? I mean, they know some NFL guys and stuff like that, that might train once a day for four or five times a week or, or maybe twice a day. But with MMA, it's just so different that they're like, Oh wow. So that's why they've rallied around me. And I think that

through that, it's going to free me up to really go to all the right places, get up to grudge for my strike and get to the Olympic training center for my wrestling. Get around these black belts and world champs in jiu-jitsu. Get around the 10th Planet guys. Get around this so that we can take this the farthest that we can. Beautiful. Yeah. All right, man. Listen, again, one more time for people at home,

fightfortheforgotten.org, fightfortheforgotten.com. What is your, the big Pygmy on Twitter? On Twitter and Instagram, it's The Big Pygmy. I translate it, it's Mabuti Mangbo. There you go. Yeah. So it's The Big Pygmy, Fight for the Forgotten.org. Oh, this is something that I just found out at Waterforged, that, man, $25.

Some of the people have been so generous. Some of the donors have given a full water well. But even just $25 a month4 is that, I mean, $25. Some of the people have been so generous. Some of the donors have given a full water well. But even just $25 a month, if that's possible, it gives water to 15 people per year. If you do it the next year, it's another 15 people. It could save their lives, save kids' lives. And so I just know it's being used the right way and passionate about it, seeing it in action. You're a beautiful soul, Justin Wren.

You really are, man. What you're doing is absolutely amazing, and I'm so happy that we can help you out in any way. So thank you very much for coming on again, and let's do this again, brother. Yeah, I love you, man. Thank you so much. You've got the best community, best fans, man. Well, I'm honored,

and I'm honored to be able to help you tell your story. It's powerful. Thank you so much. Thank you, my brother. All right, folks. We'll be back tomorrow with Duncan Trussell. See you. That's going to be able to help you tell your story. It's powerful. Thank you so much. Thank you, my brother. Alright, folks. We'll be back tomorrow with Duncan Trussell. See you. That's going to be a great one.