The Joe Rogan Experience - #866 - Christine Hassler

Episode Date: October 25, 2016

Christine Hassler is an author, speaker, and life coach. Check out her podcast "Over It And On With It" available on Spotify.

um Christine we're live all right how you doing we talked a lot before this podcast we even said we weren't gonna talk we're like I don't want to talk to you too much a lot of stuff to talk about but damn we got into everything Christy Brinkley Fibonacci sequence Tony Robbins Tony Robbins we covered a lot of ground crime crime um boyfriends as dogs as protective dogs yes protective um how did you get to become a life coach oh gosh that's a wasn't the worst no no no no it's just a long it's not i never planned on it and i don't really even like that that title what's a good name i haven't come up with a better name for it let's come up but maybe by the end of the show we'll come up with something better so that that's that's come up with one. But maybe by the end of the show, we'll come up with something better.

So that's your job, Joe. Okay. To grab my new title by the end of the show. So I started out in Hollywood, actually. I moved out after college to L.A. mainly because growing up, I was teased a lot. I was massively insecure. And if you've got something to prove, Hollywood's a great place to come do it. So you came out here to like, I'll fucking show you people.

Yeah, I'll show you. Yeah, since I didn't fit in, I didn't have a lot of friends and boys didn't really ever like me unless they wanted to cheat off my paper. I became addicted to achieving. And I was like, what can I be? I want to be somebody. Like if only I was somebody. How old were you? How old was I? Yeah. Oh gosh, when it started? 10, 8, something like that.

That's when you started wanting to prove yourself? Well, that's when the teasing started happening. And that's when I started to feel like I didn't really fit in. And I needed to find a way to feel worth something. So overachieving kind of became my way to do that. And then at 10, I was diagnosed with depression and put on Prozac at 10. What? I know. We'll bookmark that combined. And so from a very early age, I really thought something was wrong with me. I didn't fit in. And so I had to come up with these compensatory

strategies to feel worthy, to feel validated, to feel like I mattered. And so I just became like straight A student, addicted to achieving, went out to college. I grew up in Texas, went to Northwestern, graduated early and was just committed to moving to Hollywood and working my way up as an actor. I mean, as a kid, I was an actor. I tried that for a little bit and then I was like, whoa, this is way too much rejection. I can't deal with this. I want to go on the other side of the camera and pursue this career in Hollywood. And I didn't know what exactly I was going to do. I thought I was going to be a producer or something like that. But I came out, I was 20 years old and I applied to the William Morris agency to, you know, be an assistant. They're like, you have to go through the training program, which is like pushing mail carts around. And I did not want to do that. So somehow I got a desk

like really early and started working for the head of TV packaging and quickly learned I did not want to be an agent. Like I just didn't like it. It was crazy long hours. I was treated poorly. It was just a hellish job. And it was a lot of selling. I didn't really like that either. So I left and actually went and worked on The Man Show. You did? I did. I thought maybe I'll like production. So first season of The Man Show. You did? I did. I thought, maybe I'll like production. So first season of The Man Show, I was there, which was kind of a blast and also just crazy.

It was a crazy show to work on. I mean, Jimmy and Adam were always like super awesome to me, but I was, you know, a young girl, PA, running around. Juggie dancers were everywhere. I was like, what am I doing here? So I quickly got out of production and then started in comedy development at Paramount and started scouting comedians and going to comedy clubs and finding people that I could represent and bring

in, maybe get deals for them. And that quickly transitioned to moving to another company where I was doing comedy development. And then I quickly fell back into being an agent. So that was like my first career was like going to comedy clubs late at night. Eddie Ift, who I think you know, was my first client. That was your first client. That's fine. I know Eddie very well. Yeah, he was my very first client. We still keep in touch. He says hi. And that was like my life. So here I am now 24, 25, working at a big agency representing clients. I was the youngest female agent like in the department, maybe even in the city at that time. I don't know. I was really young, got promoted really, really super young. And I was dating the head of a movie studio and I was living this amazing Hollywood life,

like making a lot of money, going to the Oscars and Golden Globes, private jets, hanging out with celebrities. Like I totally had it all, but I still wasn't happy. It was like I'd achieve one thing and then there had to be the next thing. And then I'd achieve this and then there had to be the next thing. You know, I'd get the guy. I still wouldn't be happy. I'd get the promotion still. I was on that constant chase and nothing ever was like doing it.

So about two years I did this job. I'm still on antidepressants. I'm also taking anti-anxiety pills at the time and just like trying to like manage my life. And I was one of those people that I could really look good from the outside. Like I could seem like I had it all together. And the inside was a totally different story. It's kind of like a duck on water, you know, it looks smooth, but underneath it's like, that's that was what I was like. And, you know, a lot of people ask me about how to achieve all this and still like suffer from depression. And I was a very functional, depressed person. Like a lot of people think if you're depressed, you just lay in bed all day and watch, you know, soap operas or something.

But that's not the that doesn't But that doesn't summarize all depression. There's different ways it shows up. And so I was able to live my life, but I always felt like something was missing. I always felt like I wasn't enough. And I just had this heavy, heavy energy. And nothing I could achieve was ever filling that gap. So let me keep going.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one day I was riding up in the elevator to work and I had basically a mini panic attack. I just I couldn't breathe. I got off the elevator and I just couldn't catch my breath and was looking at there was a lot of weird painting and art in our office. And I was looking at the weird photos. And the one outside of my desk was this woman in a negligee who was nine months pregnant in this huge yard sale with a UFO light shining down on her about to take her up. And I'm looking at this painting. And I'm like, I feel like that's me. How did I get here? And I just, I went back down the elevator, walked around Beverly Hills, and then came back upstairs. And I just wanted to quit.

All I wanted to do was quit. I thought that was the answer. It was just I could quit my job and reinvent myself and start over. But I needed someone to give me permission. And so I called my dad because, you know, my dad has always been there for me. And I'm like, Dad, I really want to quit this job. Can I? And he did a really good dad thing.

Really pissed me off at the time. But it was a good dad move. You want to guess what he did? Told you get your shit together That's what I would do Said I love you, but I can't make this decision for you. That is a good dad thing dad thing and He hung up and I quit the next day. And that was the first really big risk I ever took. Why did you feel like you were the pregnant woman with a UFO about to take you off in a flying saucer?

I just felt confused and lost. And like I didn't fit in. Chaos. It's all wrong. And it's all wrong. And how did I get here and what is happening? Isn't it crazy that Hollywood has so many stories, I mean, obviously not exactly like yours, but so many stories of people who were rejected

and who have decided they're going to come here to prove something or to get the love that they need. And what do they run into? They're in the business of rejection. Exactly. Most people don't really think about it because most people don't act, but if you try to act, you have to audition.

And if you audition, you're going to audition with hundreds of other people that are all trying to get the same job. And they treat you like hundreds of other people are trying to get the same job. It's the weirdest thing. And people leave and they're just devastated. They're so confused. They get nervous before the thing. And then they leave the thing and they feel so helpless. It's a strange, strange business.

It really is. And it's so often not based on talent. No. It's so often not based on who's the best person for the job. And that's what frustrated me as an agent. And also one of the reasons I left, I had a deal that I put together. Eddie was actually involved in it. And my boss made me attach a showrunner who like nobody wanted and but he needed to please that client and it killed the show and it killed these guys that happens all the time all the time that happened to us when i took over the man show there was a showrunner that there's this this weird incestuous sort of fucking business in hollywood of connecting people it's

almost more about being social than it is about anything else. It's about making these relationships almost like politics. You become beholden to these people and you get them jobs and they get you jobs and you all just feed off of each other and you all suck. It really happens a lot. It happens a lot with comedy writers. There's a lot of comedy writers that are just, you know, they might have even been on Seinfeld or something like a great show. And there's a few brilliant writers. And there's a few that are like, what in the fuck is this guy doing here? Well, his agent is this guy's agent. And that guy's agent forced this guy in. If you get that guy, you get this guy too. And they make

these deals. Exactly. And that's what was so frustrating for me is I'd have these really talented people. And I couldn't't I couldn't get them jobs. Why did they put you on Prozac at 10? Were you an only child? No, no, no. I was the oldest. You're the oldest. How many kids? Just two. And I think, you know, my parents love me a lot and they just were doing the best they could. And they were listening to doctors. You know, it was a time when if a doctor tells you something, you listen. What was bumming you out? Like what was it the point where they were willing

to put you on medication? Well, I think I went from when I was little, I was really outgoing and, and talkative and happy. And then when the teasing and bullying started to happen, I completely just shut down. Like I shut off. Was it a particular group of people that did it to you or one girl? Yeah. Where is that bitch? Well, she's the one I wanted to mention when I won my Oscar. That was the whole thing. Oh, you wanted to get up there and say that in a speech? This is for you. No, eventually I got over that. But I just, I really just shut down and withdrew. And so it was just like, did you move to a different school or was it just one

particular kid? They wanted me. My parents were like, go to a different school, honey. And so it was just like, did you move to a different school or was it just one particular kid? They wanted me. My parents were like, go to a different school, honey. Like, and I just wouldn't, I was,

I was stubborn and I wanted to stay. And I think I was just scared. You know, that's the thing. Like oftentimes what we know that's, that's bad is safer, feel safer than what we don't know. That might be better.

I might had a comfort zone in where I was, like, even though I wasn't really happy, like I knew that school, I knew I was afraid that if I went to new school, I would just have to deal with the same thing. So I was just like, I'll stay where I am. Isn't it crazy that you could run into the wrong person when you're 10 years old, and it could fuck you up for a decade or two? Yeah, yeah. But I think we I mean, I don't know any human who hasn't had something in childhood or adulthood or whatever that is we can call bad. Jamie, look at him. Perfect. Nothing's ever gone wrong.

Nothing's ever gone wrong with you. Just wait. It's coming. Kids smooth and calm. Young Jamie's collected. Yeah. No, everybody's had difficulties. It's unavoidable. But the bullying thing is very, it's very strange how prevalent it is and how it seems to be a part of human nature that people have some strange desire to find someone who's weak or who's insecure

or who is, and then literally go after them and put yourself in front of them and fuck with them and ruin their life. There she is, let's go get her. Like that kind of shit is is it's a weird natural pattern that human beings follow and i've always wondered like we need to talk to gad sad about this like what is the evolutionary basis for that like what is it about people that makes them want to do that especially young people

i don't you know and i think it's different with the way girls do it and the way boys do it. How do girls do it? Girls, it's, it's a little more sneaky. And I think a lot of times it's based more on jealousy and that might have like, I don't know, that might have some. Was this girl unattractive? No, I think that, um, I was, I was smart. School came easy for me. The teachers really liked me. Parents liked me. And so I think that that might have had something to do with it. And again don't know you know I was 10 like I have no idea why they did what they did but it was more sneaky like passing around notes saying I joined the I hate Christine club and like having everyone sign it and and just kind of quietly doing it behind my back and and pulling all my friends away where I think boys are just more aggressive like they'll

they'll beat you up they'll put you in lockers they'll do that that kind away, where I think boys are just more aggressive. They'll beat you up. They'll put you in lockers. They'll do that kind of thing. But I think it's just a power thing. And within every bully is a scared little boy or little girl. So it's just, I think, how we're always, not always, but so much of the time, we're trying to compensate for something.

Where we feel less than, where we feel insecure, we think if we can just have power over something or somebody else, that's going to make us feel better. There's also a thing that happens when like the I hate Christine club thing where the other girls are probably like, I don't want to be on the end of that. So I'm going to join in. Yep. You get scared that they're going to go after you next and you want to be on the mean team. I think that's what's going on with Donald Trump. I really do. I think that's a lot of the reason why people are with him and for him. He's so vindictive and mean and the way he goes after people.

I think you see a lot of people support him and sort of like cower to him. Like even that Megyn Kelly chick who's a super brassy, badass ice princess. She did that interview with him after they had their little thing, when she sat down with him, and she was so submissive. It was weird. I mean, maybe she was trying to keep her job. Maybe Fox News were under the riot act. I don't know.

But it was really bizarre to watch her tone down. I didn't see the follow-up interview. She didn't call him out on anything. She just backed off? Not really. No. She was really submissive. It was not what I expected.

It was very orchestrated. I mean, I think it was kind of obvious at that point. I don't know if he was the nominee or he was on his way. It looked like all the other nominees were falling apart. Yeah. And she did this interview where her and him sat in some office room, like sat across from a table, and it was like people are scared. People are scared of the strong man or the strong woman,

the person who's going to go after you. Or the unpredictable. Like I think Donald is so unpredictable, you never know what he's going to throw at you, and he will go to whatever lengths he needs to go to to humiliate to make you feel less than to throw you off your game you know so she probably was just like i better just well he just he sues so many people and so many people sue him he's that's his world you know that's that's like a normal thing for him if he doesn't have a bunch of lawsuits floating around the world he probably feels like like, oh, nothing's even happening today. You know, I gotta get something

going. I gotta sue somebody. It's just crazy. But I think that that, that is one of the reasons why people like are attracted to him because they don't want to be on his bad side. I think people are terrified of him, you know, super billionaire, very famous, big, powerful guy. I think, um, there's a bunch of people that, uh, like with this, I hate Christine club. If there was this one mean bitch that just wanted to go after you, there's probably a bunch of people that would want to side with her just because they're scared that she's going to turn on them and start going after them next. I think that's probably right. Yeah, for sure. It's, it's total. It's, it's a tribal thing. It's good. It becomes this weird, like, that's our leader now.

A lot of leaders are the most vicious, mean, nasty, terrifying people. Look at the dictators in Russia or Putin or Kim Jong-un. What are they known for? The dictators in a lot of these Middle Eastern countries. They're fucking ruthless, ruthless people. And everyone's scared of them, so they all go behind them. Yep. Better to be behind them than go up against them.

To feel the wrath. Yep. Yeah, I think fear is a big motivator, unfortunately. Yes. And it, I think, impacts our ability to really think clearly about something because we're just so scared and so threatened that we stop questioning. Wait a second, like, what is he really saying? What is he really leading me to? Because that's the thing with Donald.

When I talk to people who support him, I'm like, but do you understand? Like, he would have more money if he would have just, like, taken the money his father left him and invested it versus all the bankrupting he's done. I mean, there's just so much that doesn't make sense about him. Yeah. And I'm just like, okay, well. There's never been a man alive that needs mushrooms more than Donald Trump.

If there is, I haven't heard of him. I mean, I'm sure there probably has been, but he needs them. I think he needs to go straight to the Amazon. Yeah, he might need to go right there. But he needs something. Yeah. It's just he's almost like this super impulsive hubris character. You know, everything is like when Hillary Clinton says, you know, he doesn't pay tax because I'm smart. Like you can't help like you're on. You're going to fucking debate on TV. You said you're smart because you don't pay taxes. Right. But it really reflects, I mean, it's not just him. Like it really reflects like where we are as a society

that enough people support him to get him to the place that he is. I think we're so polarized right now. And like, look, I don't really love either candidate, to be honest, I just don't. But I think that I hope that maybe this is just wishful thinking

that we'll have four years of whoever it is. I think it'll be Hillary. And then in the next election, we'll have people run that we're actually excited about supporting and voting for. Maybe, but I don't see those people anywhere to be found. No one wants the job. Exactly.

No one wants the job. That's the problem. It's a crazy job. And it's a job where they try to destroy you if you run for it. You know, and you're seeing that with Trump and you're seeing that with Hillary. And they're pulling out all the stops. And by the time it's over, the opinion of the commander in chief, it's going to be terrible no matter who wins. I mean, that crooked Hillary thing is going to stick forever.

Hashtag crooked Hillary. It's going to stick forever. And people's opinion of him is horrible. You know, it's no matter who wins and she's going to win most likely, but it's not good. It's not good for any of us. Nope. It doesn't represent what we think of the United

States as. We think of the United States as being this unbelievable place of creativity and innovation and the greatest superpower the world's ever known and this you know this really progressive force for good in the world and you know i don't know maybe we need to go through this time though to shake it up a little bit maybe things need to get bad to get better i mean i see that in human psychology so much you know you need to hit

rock bottom you need to go through these these hard times to have something better emerge. But maybe that's just wishful thinking. No, I think you're probably right. I think we also needed to understand because the WikiLeaks revelations, like how exactly politics is run, even with the people we think that are the good folks, like it's all fucking gross and dirty and all the stuff with the Clinton Foundation and all the stuff they did to Bernie Sanders. And they conspired to keep that guy out. And there's I mean, he's a Democrat, too. The whole the whole thing was supposed to be about who is the person that best represents the people that the people choose.

But now the Democratic National Committee was fucking working to make sure that Bernie Sanders wasn't the guy. Yeah. And they were all conspiring with Hillary and they're all pulling favors. It's just like we were talking about before with producers and networks. It's the same shit. It's just using your power and your influence and all the friends that you've made and all the years and all the favors and pulling it together. But now we're being exposed to it in a way that we haven't really since Watergate. I mean, Watergate gave us like a little window, a tiny little window.

But the access to information was so minuscule back then. Yeah. Like we clung to those 15 minutes of whatever Watergate tapes, whatever it was. And we were like, look at this. I'm not a crook. You know, like he was doing what they were all doing. He just got caught and we got a sense of it now. But now when you read these emails

about how they really feel about each other and all the fucking grossness that goes on and... I try to not engage too much in the grossness because it's just like, what's the point? I guess the point is to understand what the world really is about.

What the structure of the government that looms over us is really all about why are certain things legal why are certain things illegal why are certain loopholes in place how did they get in place who benefits from them what is a charity and if it is a charity how come you get paid so much like how come you get paid $250,000 to speak? And then all this money goes to your charity, but that $250,000 goes to you. Like you just talked for an hour. Like this is a scam. But that's the thing. Like you're asking, you're being curious, you're being curious, you're asking questions. And I think that's helpful. I think what so many people are doing are just getting mad and just trash talking America and the candidates and, and that doesn't do any good for anybody. If you want to like ask questions and get involved and start to get curious and question, that's, that's awesome. That's how we change things. But I think too much of this has just been so emotionally driven that people are just getting upset and not really going, huh, what can I do? What can I learn? people are just getting upset and not really going, huh, what can I do? What can I learn?

Yeah. How can I shift this in some way? Yeah. It's also people who are like super psyched to get behind their candidate, their team. I got to tell you, like there's a lot of grossness on both sides for sure. There's a lot of grossness on the Trump side. There's a lot of mean assholes that have finally found another mean asshole that's running for president. And they're pumped like he's one of them. But then there's a lot of men who are using hashtag I'm with her. And they're the grossest little fucking white knights. Oh, my God. I've run across a few of them on Twitter.

What's a white knight? You don't know what a white knight is? How dare you? You really don't know? Like a knight in shining armor? Yes. A man who comes along and positions himself as the superior, morally superior. Got it. What they call, Michael Shermer calls virtue signaling. Someone who would say, you know, hashtag I'm with her, hashtag male feminist.

You know, hashtag. Ew, male feminist. Yeah, that's real. Oh, no. Yeah, there's a lot of those out there. Yeah, they're trying hard. They couldn't get laid any other way, and this is the strategy. This is the way.

The strategy is to position themselves as the super progressive. Oh, gosh. Yeah. It's like people who don't want you to think that they're racist, so they go out of their way to discriminate against white people, other white people, when they're white. I read this thing where this woman was saying, if you are a white person and you are up for

a job and you are up against a person of color, do period, not period, take that job. You don't deserve it. Examine white privileged. I was like, oh my God, what liberal arts college do you belong to? What fucking crazy shit is in your head? Like what? I don't get it at all do period not period take that job Yeah

Well, you don't have to get it. We went on a tangent We went off we're trying to find out how you become a life coach talking politics White nights, I love it. I love it. Yeahers. I love tangents. Yeah. Now I know. A whole new understanding of white knights. Well, I think- I always understood it as, you know, the man who's going to come in and rescue me. That's that. But they're positioning themselves as that.

But that, you know. I think we're a couple decades away from all this going away. Because I think technology is going- Like government going away? Or what? All bullshit. All bullshit and lies. I hope so. I really and lies. I hope so.

I really believe this. I think technology is going to enable, just like no one anticipated, you know, you can go back to the first days of cameras. If you went back to the 1800s

and they first had a camera, no one would have ever thought that in the lifespan of just, I mean, what was the first camera, Jamie? Like 1860, something like that, like Civil War, what was the first camera, Jamie? Like 1860, something like that. Like Civil War era was like the first cameras.

No one would have ever thought that in two lifespans, which is essentially what it is from then to now, you would be able to send video to Australia instantaneously from something that slips into your pocket. It's pretty mind blowing when you like stop to think about how much we've seen in our lifetime. Yeah, I think we're just so used to it. We're so used to Google and the internet. When Hillary Clinton was telling Donald Trump said something and she's like, Google it. Google what he said. It's not true.

And I was like, how hilarious is that? Hillary Clinton is telling people to Google Donald Trump. That's how beautiful access to information is today. I think we are a couple decades, maybe a little bit more, away from a completely new paradigm, a completely new way of accessing information. I think we're going to submit to something, whether it's a neural implant or some sort of augmented reality. And we're going to be able to read intention and thoughts. There's not going to be any lying in 100 years. I really believe that.

I totally think you're right. And I think that's why we're seeing so many of these systems break down. Yes. Like the presidential election, which used to be this coveted, amazing thing. Now we're kind of looking at it like it's a reality TV show is what it seems like now. It's all pussy grabbing. Craziness. Oh, craziness.

That's the fuck. It's crazy. I mean, I just couldn't believe that in the first like 20 minutes of the second debate, well, I had been out of the country for a month, which was so refreshing. And to come back and I watched it and the first 20 minutes was just character slams. It was nothing about the issues or anything. and I was just like what what's what's happening that doesn't make me happy like it doesn't make me feel like if he shits on her she shits on him and she she tears him down it doesn't make me feel like she's better I liked her in one of the

debates because I didn't tune into it until the last like hour and he was saying a bunch of crazy shit and she would start laughing. I was like, that's how she should handle him. She should handle him like he's a child. Like if she did that, but she's fucking crazy too. Our first woman president. Another tangent. Lots of tangents.

Life coaching. Oh yeah, back to that. How do you get from... All right, so where was I? Because people right now are mad at both of us, by the way. I'm sorry, people. You don't know shit about politics. Yeah. How about you just shut the fuck up?

I will totally own that. That's not my area of expertise. Guess what? Nobody knows shit about politics, even the people doing it. That's why Donald Trump's running for fucking president. Nobody saw that coming. Nobody understands this stupid system. Yeah.

But you understand life coaching. Yes. We're going to come up with a better name a better name for life coaching yes but so the way it happened is um all right so i quit my job which threw me into an even worse depression because that was my whole identity like it was my success in being an agent and so then in a period of i don't know like, like six to eight months, a bunch of things happened. I went into lots of debt because I tried to keep up with this lifestyle. I was estranged from my family for a bit because I made a choice that they didn't really like. And I got diagnosed with another autoimmune disorder on top of everything else.

And then I was engaged and thought, oh, I'm going to be a wife. Like, that's my next role. I'll be fine. And then six months before my wedding, oh, I'm going to be a wife. Like, that's my next role. I'll be fine. And then six months before my wedding, he dumped me. Cold turkey. So in that, you know, I know people listening have been through worse. But in that, like, span at 26 years old, losing my career and money and family and health and love, it was kind of like, this sucks. Like this.

I really didn't know what to do. And I had honestly a moment on my bathroom floor, which I don't know why I was on my bathroom floor. It was disgusting, but I was just laying there. It's a good spot to cry. The tiles are nice and cold, you know, it feels very dramatic. And I had this like kind of insight, I guess you could say, of how much I was relating to everything as a total victim, as like everything was happening to me. And then it dawned on me, I'm the common denominator in like all of these situations. So either I have just really bad luck or I have some influence over this. And again, like it was just a teeny bit of an insight, but it was enough of a new perspective on my life that kind of got me off the bathroom floor and started to give me some

kind of hope and started to make me realize I needed help. And like I, the way I was doing my life wasn't going to work anymore. And so I found, I thought I was having a quarter life crisis and I found a book by that name and I read it and it was fine, but it wasn't going deep enough for me. So I decided to write a book about my experience and everything I was learning and how I was getting myself off the book, and they kept saying things to me like, can I set up a session with you? And I'd say, why? I got all the information. And they said, well, aren't you a coach or a counselor or something? And I'd say, no. And they said, you should be.

You should be. You should be. You should be. And I kept hearing this over and over and over again. So I went to my coach and kind of my first teacher who I met when I was 22, and I was still seen, and she had a major impact on my life. And I said, Mona, you know, everybody's telling me I should do this. And I've been looking for my career for, you know, years, and maybe this is what I'm supposed to do. She's like, yeah, yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. And I go, I've been coming for five years. Like, why didn't you tell me this? And she said,

you know, you had to figure it out. You had to find it. And so that's how it just started. Like people kept reflecting back to me, hey, you're good at this. You should do this. And I didn't really know how or what. And so then I started studying it. I apprenticed with her. I got training. I got a master's degree. I wrote more books. And it just sort of happened out of my own life and out of just creating things that I thought would help people and people going, actually, this is really helping me.

And can I talk to you more? And that was a good 10, 11 years ago. If you push the mic forward a little bit more, make the sound a little bit more consistent. It sounds good in your ear, just the recording, it'll be weird. Isn't that an interesting thing that it's oftentimes small choices that people make that dictate what happens to them in their life. But if you just decide that things are happening to you, you don't take any responsibility for any of the choices. That's to me the biggest difference from people who are able to change their life

and people who don't, is ownership, is realizing that, yes, things happen, but we're not victims. And anything can happen, but the same exact thing can happen to you and I. And we can make different choices about what we make it mean and how we respond to it. And we're going to create different results based on that. So it's not what happens to people. It's not just luck. It's truly what are you going to choose to believe about it? And that's to me, the key

differentiator between staying where you are and kind of regressing as you get older and just repeating your familiar patterns and rinse and repeat life and more stubborn and all those things and just looking for those short-term bursts of happiness and a trip or a bottle of wine or whatever versus really getting clear about how you can change your life, what your purpose is, what brings you joy, and who you really are. There's a thing about life coaching too, or, or any, but I mean, just forget that word, but the idea that you're dispensing advice or giving out inspiration or, you know, writing things down that have affected and helped and enhanced you.

People want to dismiss that stuff. Like, Oh, I don't need that. Oh, that's nothing. But I feel like one of the best things about being a part of a community or being a part of a culture is that you get to look at all of the things that people have done that have benefited them and all of the positive choices that someone has made. And you can learn and experience those without having to go through all their bullshit. Yeah. can learn and experience those without having to go through all their bullshit. Yeah. You know, and there's a lot of things that I've learned from people, whether I've read things that they've said or listened to speeches that they've given about mistakes that they've made where I've come across a similar moment in my life. I'm like, oh, I know what this is.

Yeah. I know what that is. It's it. I think it's one of the best tools that we have when it comes to improving and enhancing your own life, your own individual experience, is looking at all the different shit that other people have done. And it's a weird one because people dismiss it so easily. amount of hubris and a certain amount of ego attached to it where they don't want to admit they have an issue or they don't want to admit they need help or they don't want to admit that they need to be inspired or they need you know some sort of motivation i think it's yeah i think it's fear yeah back to that whole this life that i know is comfortable i may not like it but i'm so

scared of uncertainty that i don't want to make the changes. You know, people are terrified of the unknown. There's also a lot of fuckery afoot when it comes to life coaches and motivational speakers. And there's a lot of hosers, like we were talking about before the podcast about a couple of hosers. We know there's hosers out there and those people, but it's like everything else. Like, you know, there's bad car mechanics, you know, they'll put a used part in your car and fuck you over. There's bad doctors, there's bad everything, everything in this world as someone who's half-assing it. And the problem with that whole, the idea of being a life coach or being a

motivational speaker is that there's not really like, you don't have to get a PhD to do it. You don't have to, you know, you don't have to like prove yourself. Like Mike has opened up 15 different businesses. So he's going to show you how to do a business like this. The guy's a successful businessman. That makes sense. But there's a lot of people out there that are doing life coaching that are fucking failures. Yeah. And maybe, maybe that's not the worst thing in the world to be a failure because you've learned from those failures and maybe your achievement or your contribution is expressing those failures and your revelations from those failures. And that could help somebody else not make those same mistakes. Yeah. I mean, I think I've had a lot of so-called failures and mistakes. Um, did you ever have one of those like bathroom floor moments? Those like life pivot?

I'm a man, first of all. I cry like a chick on the floor. What's the man's word? Yeah, I mean, all bullshit aside, yeah. There's always, for a comic, the big one is bombing. Bombing on stage is devastating. And you start thinking, I can't do this like you can only take so many of those bombings in your life yeah it's like getting beaten up you can only get beaten up so

many times before like your brain stops working right and there's that relationship breakups for sure um devastations i think are always the best for a rebirth. Yep. And at the time, they don't feel like it. No. And devastations, when anything devastating that happens to you in your life, while it's happening, you feel like, I don't know if I can take this. But then you get through it and you have this sort of enhanced perspective.

And then you also, we live in an amazing time where you can see, you know, not that you should revel in other people's failures but you could like look what most of your failure is nothing yeah in comparison to what's going on in a million like Syria or a million different parts of the world that are just filled with fucking chaos yeah most people can't see that because you see your life and your life is all you know and your life is falling apart. Right. Well, and I think, too, you know, we get so kind of narcissistic in our problems that we forget the bigger perspective.

And we don't. A lot of people talk about being happy all the time. And I just don't think that that's real. I think that you I've grown and I through contrast through, you know, I I think I really, I've grown and I've through contrast through, you know, I, I think I really understand happiness and joy because I've really understood depression and sadness. Like that polarity, I think is such a big part of what we're here for. Yeah. I mean, you look, you could read a book about different parts of the world and what's going on. If you're still happy after you read that book, there's something wrong with you.

You know, like probably shouldn't be happy all the time. There was actually, I think it was Scientific America or something like that, that had an article recently saying you're not going to be happy all the time and you shouldn't be. And there's a reason for it. Exactly. Peaks and valleys in everything in life. Yep. And that, you know, for people listening that might be in one of those valleys, it's like, don't try to just get through it. Really ask, you know, what can I learn from this?

That was my biggest thing is I stopped asking, why is this happening to me? And started asking, what can I learn? Yeah. So instead of painting yourself as a victim, you paint yourself as someone who's present in the moment and just, okay, I don't want to do this anymore. Right. Let's figure out what's going on. Exactly. And we don't, a lot of times we don't have the tools.

And that's where things like life coaching and personal development come in handy is because we can go and get those tools instead of using our old coping mechanisms by like being strong or overing, overworking, over drinking, over, you know, jumping into a relationship, like whatever it may be. over drinking, over, you know, jumping into a relationship, like whatever it may be, we, we don't really learn how to deal with disappointment, failure, anger, shame, any of those things. And so we're kind of left to these quick fix devices that I think that's a big reason addiction is such a problem is because we don't really learn how to manage emotion and how to manage disappointment. And so we go for that thing that makes us feel better in the moment. But the problem is we have to keep upping the ante. You know, at first that one glass of wine does the trick, but then you need two, then you need three, then you need vodka, then you need whatever it may be. And so I mean, why I'm so passionate

about what I do is first of all, I never, I never thought I could be happy. Like I really didn't. I thought that this, you know, I, I was going to be depressed and I just was going to constantly be looking for something to fix me. I never really truly thought this life that I'm living now was possible. Again, externally things look fine But internally, I'm talking about a totally different kind of experience. And it's only because of those, like, really awful moments, I call them expectation hangovers, that I was kind of desperate enough to let go of my normal coping mechanisms and my trying to control everything. It was like the ultimate in surrender, truly, of going, okay, like, I don't, I don't know, I need to find a different way to deal with this. And that's really what has led me down the path that that I'm today. So, you know, I, I think that life coaching and the personal

transformation industry and all that, like you said, there's a lot of what you call them, hoke, of what do you call them? Hoke, Hokies. Uh, hosers. Hosers. Bob and Doug McKenzie.

I don't even know who that is. They were fucking 1980s. Silent live character. They call each other hosers. They're from Canada. Oh my God. Hey hoser. Remember those guys?

I don't know why I came up. Why hosers? I'm learning all these words. This is great. I don't know why hoser. I don't know why that. I hardly ever use that. I don't know why it popped up. I love it. to go back to the the prozac yeah yeah yeah because i'm super so your parents put you on that stuff when you're 10 years old well i think it was more the doctors okay your doctors i'm sorry your doctors put you on that

stuff when you were 10 years old like ink block tests and ink block tests yeah you know what do you see a demon yeah exactly what do you see death yeah what do you see? A demon? What do you see? Death? What do you see? A skull? I know. I don't think I, I probably said things like a butterfly. I don't know who knows what I said. That bitch I hate from school with a fucking ax in her head. So the doctor puts you on Prozac and what kind of an effect does that have on you? I mean, it actually helped. I think it really helped. I think it helped me. Um, I, gosh, it's so hard to remember too. I mean, I was was 10 but when I talked to my parents about it they're like you know it did help because I really do think that because of everything that happened you know my brain chemistry did shift you know I do think that we can shift our brain chemistry with repetitive thoughts and you know I had enough thoughts about you know I'm not likable

I had just an intense inner critic in my head. And I do think that shifted my brain chemistry. And I do think that the medicine helped me at least get to a point where, you know, I was like, kind of awake again. How long did that take? I don't remember. But I know that, you know, especially my 20s, like, but I know that, you know, especially in my twenties, like I was still on it. Oh gosh. I was on it until 30. Yeah. I was on every, from every, I was on Prozac, Wellbutrin. For 20 years? 20 years. From the time you were 10. So all through high school, you were on that stuff? Yep. Wow. Yep. I, I believed that I needed it just like a diabetic would take insulin. So how long ago did you get off of it?

Seven and a half years ago. Wow. And like totally, I never have any regression or dips, but I did, I was super intentional about getting off of it. I didn't just stop.

Like especially after 20 years. It took me a while. It took a lot of the emotional work that I was doing with my coach, Mona, because, you know, so much of depression is suppression. So, you know, when all that stuff was happening, I think I was pretty angry about it. But I had no outlet for that, especially as a girl. Like, boys, again, can go out and get stuff out. But a lot of times, and this is why I think so many women get irritable and bitchy and all those kind of things, is because women, we don't have, like, that outlet for anger. And so we internalize a lot of times, and this is why I think so many women get irritable and bitchy and all those kind of things is because women, we don't have like that outlet for anger. And so we internalize a lot of that. Like we can do sadness, but anger a lot of times gets suppressed. And so a lot of

like me getting off my medicine and not feeling depressed was not being suppressed. What about exercise? Well, see, exercise is okay. But until you like go back and actually process the emotion, I mean, exercise is good in terms of moving the energy. But a lot of times you have to attach like the feeling with the movement, right? So like a lot of my retreats that I do, where I just bring women, I facilitate like an anger burn for them. An anger burn? An anger burn. What is that? It's like a safe place for women to get their anger out. And it's not just catharsis. There's a whole kind of process they put them through.

So they kind of reconnect maybe earlier life experiences where they didn't feel protected or they felt unsafe or they felt abused or whatever that is. Because, again, this all comes from my own life experience and working with gosh, thousands of people at this point. Like I, I see over and over again, people that are depressed, shut down, have a lot of anxiety, not happy with their life, have some like unprocessed thing from their past that just needs to move. And when I create this space for people to start to move that energy, it's like underneath there is creativity and passion and peace and freedom from anxiety and all that kind of stuff. So when you're looking at me like, no, no, not at all. I'm just listening. He's looking at me like, who is this girl?

I mean, like, no, no, not at all. I'm just listening. He's looking at me like, who is this girl? So when people have that space to unleash that and to let the energy move through them, because I think there's a difference between emotion and feeling. So feelings to me are physiological responses to thoughts. Okay. So if I sit here and think about the future that I'm scared about, I'm going to feel anxiety. If I have like, oh my gosh, what if like someone breaks in my house tonight? I'm going to feel fear. You know, if I can feel regret because of a thought or guilt. But emotion, like energy in motion. If someone hurts one of your kids, you're going to experience anger.

You know, like it's a natural response. Someone close to us dies or we have a heartbreak. It's natural to feel the emotion of sadness. And I think that there's a lot of kind of misleading information about like, oh, we create all our feelings with our thoughts and we can just like affirm our way out of things and think our way out of things. And to some degree, that's true. Changing our thinking does a lot. But with some core emotions like anger, shame, sadness, I think we got to feel them. And I think that that's what people are really scared of is actually kind of opening that box, opening that can of worms and going back and actually feeling those feelings. But the thing is they're in there. And so if you don't get them

up and out in a healthy way, then I think that's what creates a lot of suppression, a lot of depression, perhaps maybe even disease, things like that, because they just get stored in our body somewhere. Make sense? Yeah. So what do you do to these gals? What do I do to these gals? It's just creating the space. They just scream? Well, fight. What do they do? No? It's just creating the space.

They just scream? Well, pillow fight? What do they do? No, it's not a pillow fight. Give them a punching bag? No,

it's not that. I give them, I definitely give them something to hit with, like those foam noodles, you know, that you, you give them foam noodles? I do,

I do. And, oh gosh, the comments to this are going to be crazy. I can't believe this, but here we go. So I, and I put on, I put on some pretty intense music. Like Slayer?

I don't even know. Not Slayer. You don't even know? Not Slayer. Okay. Not that intense? Metallica? It's more like Metallica's son.

Enter Sandman? Really? Yeah, Metallica's on my playlist. I can pull up my playlist later if you really want to see it. You have a Beat the Shit out of a foam roller playlist? Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. Of course. It's called my Anger Burn playlist. Your Anger Burn playlist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm telling you. Actually, so one time I was doing this. I rented a house actually out near here, Agora. And people were doing this process. And again, like I prep them like you know I they they bring to mind things that they've maybe like I said like we're angry about things from their childhood you know it's not just like I throw them in a room with loud music and say go

after it like they're very there's a lot of processes I put them through to get them to this point but anyway so we're doing this one time in this house and there's like, you know, 20 women, loud music, yelling, and, um, the cops show up and the guy's like, um, what are you like, what's going on here? And I step out, I step out and I explain, I said, you know, a lot of times I, this is a women's, you know, workshop. And a lot of times, you know, we hold back our emotions and, you know, we end up getting irritable. And this is just a healthy way for, you know, people to heal and work on their emotions. And the cop looks at me and he's like, can I have your card? I want to send my wife. No kidding.

That's what the cop said to me. So there's I've gotten lots of calls from husbands and boyfriends and even kids and like, thank you. Because there's something about, it's like pulling off our armor, honestly. And there's something about doing like the deeper work and kind of going to those scary places that takes the layer off of us. I think, I mean, it's similar to plant medicine in a lot of ways of like going to those places where that are kind of like, where you come out the other side

and you have a deeper understanding of yourself. So by doing something completely ridiculous and crazy and just letting loose and all the madness involved with it, it's almost like a reset for you. Yeah, yeah. completely ridiculous and crazy and just letting loose and all the, the madness involved with it. It's almost like a reset for you. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not, again, like it's facilitated. It's not this, this crazy, you know, people going, you know, screaming, it's not fight club. It's not, cause there's a difference between catharsis and like actual processing stuff, but it's just, But it's just and again, I think we we don't really understand emotion to a certain level. And we think that big emotion is crazy.

And it's not necessarily. And trying to manage it through their mind or through doing things or through whatever else versus actually like being willing to look at those parts of ourself. Because we're, you know, we're humans. We have a mind. We have emotions. We have actions. We have, you know, our spiritual self, whatever you want to call that, like something that's connected to something bigger than us. And I think we need a holistic approach to really change. and I think we need a holistic approach to really change.

Now, from the time that you decided to get off of the antidepressants, did you follow a protocol? Did you go to a doctor to discuss it with them? Did you read anything about how to do that? And what advice would you give to anybody out there that might be listening that also is going through that same sort of situation? Doctors told me I couldn't do it, so I stopped going to doctors. Ever. Stay on it. I'm getting paid. Exactly. So I had, you know, my coach at the time, he was really helpful. He was more than, again, my coach is such like a, I don't even know what to call her. She was.

How did you find her? I was dating a guy who was an addict and complaining about him to a girlfriend at lunch for like the 80th time. What kind of addict? Pills? No, drugs like coke, alcohol, maybe pills. Pills too. Fun times? Good times. My Hollywood life.

Yeah, it was super great. Yeah, I was popping Xanax while he was doing all that. So anyway, I've totally Xanax while he was doing all that. So anyway, I've totally lost my train of thought. How'd you find your coach? Oh, yeah, yeah. How'd I find my coach? So we're sitting at lunch.

I'm talking about this for like the 80th time. And she goes, I can't. I can't listen to this anymore. I went and saw this kind of kooky woman. Go see her. So and I had been like to shrinks my whole life. And I had never been to like a coach. I had always been to therapists and psychiatrists. And so nothing against therapists and psychiatrists, they do good work. But I had kind of like reached my limit with it. And so I go to this woman's house and she's like totally stuck in 1985, like her decor, her fashion,

everything. And I sit down and I sit across from her and she didn't even see me in her normal office. I think she knew she needed to like totally get me out of my comfort zone. So she put me in her son's bedroom with like these race car bunk beds. And I'm sitting there on this race car bunk bed going, where am I? Like, how did I get here? And she walks in, she sits in front of me. And it was the first time in my life, and I felt loved by my parents, but this was the first time in my life I felt really seen. Like, it was almost uncomfortable. Like, this woman could almost see through me.

She could see me. She could really see me. And I felt zero judgment from her. Like, zero. And although it was scary a little bit because it was like kind of I felt very vulnerable. There was something so reassuring about it because she was the first like practitioner I had seen that didn't see me as broken. She really just saw me. And she was the one that in so many ways helped me over the years get off the medication by teaching me how to release my emotions, by helping me understand that, you know, bad feelings aren't necessarily bad. I also got very clear about my diet. Like

I got off gluten because a lot of times gluten can impact brain chemistry. I stopped drinking. I wasn't ever a big drinker, but I stopped drinking for about two years because alcohol is a depressant. I'd always been into exercise and fitness and eating healthy and everything like that. And then I also started meditating and like finding some kind of connection to a higher power. I didn't really have a name for it at the time, but something where I didn't feel like I was so alone because that was kind of one of the scary things about depression. You feel alone a lot of the time. And so it was a combination of all of those things that over time and the belief that I could, I really had to change my belief that I could get off of them. So for people that are considering it, don't just stop. Like it's dangerous just to

stop because that can really mess with your brain chemistry. Find somebody who knows something about this and can put you on a plan, can help you. I'm not a doctor. I'm not here to give medical advice. So consult a doctor. But for me, it was number one, the belief that I could. And number two, finding the people that could really support me. And number three, making the lifestyle changes that I needed to make to support it and being willing to go to that dark, scary place that I was afraid to go to. What do you mean by when you say that she was the first person who didn't see you as broken? What do you mean by they all saw you as broken? as broken. What do you mean by they all saw you as broken? Well, I think when, you know, for me,

when I would go to one of these doctors or therapists, I mean, they'd see that I was on medication since I was 10. And they kind of relate to me in that way, like as a depressed person. No, just more like I had a label. Like this is it you're depressed and so that's why they weren't willing to consider you getting off of the medication they felt like the medication is a part of who you are you gotta accept it it's a daily thing it's like brushing your teeth you're not gonna stop yeah maybe I mean I don't even know what they were thinking I just know how I felt and I just did it and maybe it was because like at the time I didn't believe it yet either maybe I needed someone who believed in it more than I did do you think that also the people that deal with people every day whether you're a psychologist or a psychiatrist or

whatever that you're so inundated with people and their fucking problems that after a while you just become overwhelmed and it's very difficult to see people like and have a fresh reset every time you see someone. This is a new person. Her name is Christine. Hey, Christine, what's going on with you? Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's therapists, psychiatrists, they have hard jobs. Like imagine your whole day is person after person talking about what's wrong with their life.

That can be very draining. Even when I first started as a life coach and I saw person after person after person, I really had to learn not to take that on and not to let it drain me. So again, like I have a lot of respect for, my mom's a therapist, so I have a lot of respect for therapists and psychiatrists who are very helpful to me. I just think for me in my life journey and what I wanted, I just, I didn't want to spend the rest of my life medicated. I just really didn't. So what is the difference between life on medication and life off medication? And how long is the process of weaning yourself? I mean, I think it took me, it took me a good two years to feel like it was finally kind of out of my system.

Two years? How long was it before you were actually stopping taking it? Well, I, gosh, I can't remember exactly. But I think I probably weaned for a good six months, and then it was like a year and a half till I felt like it was like cleared out of my system. Wow. So for six months, you slowly weaned yourself off of it. And then at the end of six months, you're not taking the medication anymore, but you still feel foggy. Like, what do you feel? Yeah, I was, it was like, it was like my system was recalibrating, you know, all my brain chemistry was recalibrating and, you know, cause that stuff affects your brain chemistry. It affected my hormones. Like it, it just,

you know, it affected a lot. So did you take like one pill and then cut it down to three quarters of a pill and then to half a pill? I did consult a psychiatrist and they gave me like a weaning plan. So, yeah, whatever. Different people, like it's not a standard thing. Like different psychiatrists will tell you different things. So it depends on what dosage you're on, how long you've been on it, which medication you're on, what the side effects for it are, those kind of things. What does it feel like when you're first day, no pills? Do you remember that day? I remember the first day I woke up and I felt clear. Like I felt like Scientology clear. No, I don't want to get kicked out of here.

No, like, like, like it was like out of me. Right. And I was like, oh my gosh, like I just felt like a fog and a heaviness had lifted. It just felt and I also felt like I had deeper access to my creativity, my intuition, and all those things were present. But it was just – there was just sort of like some white noise there. And I also like – for me, depression manifested as being incredibly self-critical, like super self-critical, like this very, very, very loud inner critic. And so that started to lift too. But again, I was doing all kinds of other work at the same time. I was studying with my life coach. I was getting a

master's degree in spiritual psychology. What is spiritual psychology? Yes. Good question. So it's a place called the University of Santa Monica. And I didn't know anything about this place, but I had been a life coach and I thought, okay, if I'm helping people with their life, I've got to know if I'm helping people with their life, I've got to know how to help them deal with their past. Like I can't just work on present and future without like having some skills for dealing with your past. And so I was researching schools. I thought if I could get a master's degree in psychology, that would help me and that would be good for my career and all those things to have like some credentials. So I researched and

I find this school and I didn't really know anything about it. I'm like, this is great. And the spiritual part didn't have anything to do with any religion or anything like that. It was more of the premise of, you know, that traditional psychology is kind of a little bit more about like labels and spiritual psychology is more people have the inner resources they need to heal. And I didn't, again, didn't know much about it. Show up at this school with my laptop thinking I'm going to like take notes and there's going to be lectures. But there were no deaths. It was a highly experiential school. It's, like I said, a two-year program.

And in that, I really learned how to change my belief systems, heal stuff from my past, connect to a part of me. Because we all have like our basic self, like our conscious part. But I believe we also have something deeper. Like we can call it our intuition. We can call it our gut feeling. We can call it our authentic self. But there's some kind of inner wisdom that I think all of us have access to. And this program really helped me get more access to that part of me so that I could start listening to that more than my old conditioning, my old belief systems, my old fears. Because, you know, when we're born, we're kind of this blank slate. And then stuff happens and we form these stories about our lives

and who we are and how we get love and how we get validation and how we get acceptance and how life works and who we are and our identity. And it's kind of just a story. And we have, we can change that story, but it takes work going back and deconstructing that story and letting go of some old beliefs that maybe we've hung on to, to create a different one. So that's what so much of my journey has been about is kind of looking at what's the story I've created about my life and how can I change it? Because the story that I had was I'm depressed. I have to be achieving all the time. Being hard on myself is how I motivate myself, so on and so forth. I'm constantly rejected, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And by believing that story, it was creating results in my life that aligned with that. And so to create different results, I had to have a different story to tell. And so there's this shift that has to take place. And it's like turning a battleship, right? It's not a quick thing. It takes a long time. No, it's not and i think that's another um kind of letdowns people have when they you know go to a seminar or read one book they expect to change overnight and it's a it's a process do you remember the secret i do there was a girl i've told the story

before but she was so nice she's friends with my friend ke Kelly. Kelly Kirsten. You know Kelly Kirsten? Comedian. Funny girl. Anyway, she was at the comedy store one night and she was talking to Kelly and I was talking to her and she started going on about her future. All the things that she was going to do. She was going to be married within a year. She was going to have the career that she wants. She was going to this and that and that and this. And I was so confused. And she was like, I found the secret. I'm doing, you know, do you know about the secret? I go, oh, the power of positive thinking, that kind of thing. She's like, it's not just that.

It's not just positive thinking. It's like you do create your own future. You create your own identity. You create, you know, you create reality. I was like, okay. Like, you sure? And she's like, yeah, I'm sure. You know, I'm positive.

Okay, good luck. I'm like, boy. The problem with all that stuff, of course, if you've never heard of it, is what are they, what is the term for it that they're trying to achieve? Law of attraction yeah what what they're trying to achieve is they're trying to like you take the a photo of your dream house you pin it on your wall you take a photo of a Ferrari you pin that on the wall you're going to get those things the problem is when you watch those videos when they say you know I had this photo of my home on the wall. I had the Ferrari that I wanted.

I had my dream wife. Now I have those things. I made those things happen with intention and with thought. Do you know how many fucking people have a photo of a beautiful house on their wall and a Ferrari and they got no fucking house and they got no Ferrari and they never will. Like you, it's, you're taking it from a biased pool of successful people who will tell you that this happened to them. But there are literally millions of people who think positive and nothing ever happens to them. So this girl who, um, is a very nice person. She came to one of my shows like a year later and we're hanging out outside

and I go, how's everything? What are you doing? She's like, well, it's really a drag, you know, because I was convinced that by this time I would have all these things. But, you know, my dad, he's still, you know, a fuck up and this and that. And I've got this problem, that problem.

And I just don't understand it. I don't understand it. I believe that I was so sure. And we had this like, it was really interesting because she was like two different people. Like I'd met her twice. Right. So I meet her this one time and she's just a glow with this delusion that now she's got it. And she's got, and she was, she was, she thought also that talking about it all the time was part of how you affirm it. So she was saying, you know, I'm going to be married in a year. I'm going to do this. I'm following the secret. And she kept saying it and it was, and then a year later she was just, I don't get it. It didn't work. And so we had this sort of heart to heart about it. I haven't talked to her again. I don't know what the hell happened to her,

but I'll never forget it because the two different people the the girl who was like kind of crazy like oh why i didn't believe in and then a year later a year and a half i think just wasn't happening and life was still kind of shitty and she was she couldn't understand why the career didn't happen and her life didn't happen. And it's a slow shift. It's a slow shift. And I think the law of attraction can be misleading because it's, you know, change takes more than I put a picture up and I do some positive affirmations. up and I do some positive affirmations. If like down deep, you don't feel like you're worthy, um, or you're, you're not going to be able to attract those things. You've got to like kind of go back and deal with core issues and core belief systems in order to shift things in

your life. I mean, if it was as easy as putting pictures up on our wall, everybody would have, you know, Lamborghinis and hot wives and husbands. So, but it takes, it takes more than that. It takes being willing to like do some work and take some responsibility rather than just thinking the universe is Santa Claus and just was going to pop something into your life. I equate it to people that are morbidly obese that want a six pack. Like it can be done. Can be done. But God damn.

Yeah. You got a God damn. Yeah. You got a long road. Yeah. You know, if you want to climb Mount Everest and you're starting in Santa Monica, you got to fucking get to Mount Everest. Absolutely. Right. Absolutely. And then that's when people ask me, how do you get off antidepressants?

I'm not like, oh, I just did this and then I did this and then I did this. It was it was years of like, you know, deciding I was going to and having the right people around. It wasn't an easy thing. It's probably the hardest thing I've done. Now, what is the difference between antidepressants and Xanax? You said you were taking both. Yeah. Why do you need the Xanax if you're already pilled up on the antidepressants?

I mean, again, not an MD, so not my territory. But for me, the antidepressants just kind of kept me steady. But then with my boyfriend at the time and my crazy Hollywood life, like I just had like so much anxiety. And, you know, you go to a doctor and you're like, I have so much anxiety. Like when you say how do you define anxiety? I'm worried about the future. Like worried a lot. Like kind of high strung.

Not able to calm down. Yeah, just that. Just normal like anxiety. But I didn't have tools then. My tools then were medicine. Now I have better tools. So now do you take anything? No.

I mean supplements. Supplements. Just vitamins and stuff. Vitamins. Yeah. I'm super like I love human hacking and human optimization. I love exercising. I love meditation.

I take AlphaBrain, like all that stuff. And do you ever miss it? Is there ever a time where you're like, God damn, I just want a pop of Xanax and fucking drink a glass of wine no no i will say this though one i had my eyes lasix lace you know the lasik and they gave me um valium and i was like whoa this i see why people get addicted to this this is incredible but i'm glad they did because i was super freaked out about them cutting my eyeball open and valium just relaxes you right is that what it does you felt great i mean the only time i ever did it but no i don't miss that because what i have now is um like i'm i i feel clear and alive and you know i don't feel happy all the time i definitely have my days

but i don't relate to it as I'm depressed. It's just like, oh, I'm having a normal human experience. I'm not having the best day. I think stories like this are very inspiring to people. I think it's very important. We don't want... It's hard for people to look at people who aren't doing well and talk to them and just go,

oh, I don't know what to tell you. Good luck. Let me get the fuck away from this bitch. You know, like that's how people think. Like, I don't want to deal with her problems or his problems. Or I want to I want to I want to separate myself and concentrate on myself. So I think when someone like you can sort of express how you were in this really bad state and yours is a very bizarre situation because you're talking about being on these pills from the time you're 10.

Right. That's really unique. But then having almost a decade off of them, seven years off of them. Yeah. Yeah. Almost eight. Yeah. And I honestly think it helps me help people.

Like, it really does. it helps me help people. Like it really does. I've, I've had lots of training as a life coach, but my own life experiences have been the thing that's really given me the most credentials, I guess you could say. Well, your credentials are that you're actually happy. Yeah. I'm actually happy. I, you know, I, I've been able to create a life and a career and friendships and connection that, you know, I thought I no longer live that story of I hate Christine Club. I have great friends, great women friends, like all of that, you know, and and that's I I'm no like different or more special than anybody. It's just, again, choices. And I made choices that led me to this point. And everybody has that. Everybody has that freedom. What's the book? Man's Search

for Meaning. Have you ever read that book? No. By Viktor Frankl. I've heard of it. Yeah. He was in concentration camps and he was actually a psychiatrist, I think. But he talked about, you know, he kept himself sane and he kept himself free through his mind. And he says in between stimulus and response, basically what happens and how we respond is a choice. And in that choice lies our ultimate freedom. And I think that that's true. We all have that freedom, no matter what your circumstances. Now, when someone comes to you and they're like, Christine, I'm all fucked up.

I need to get my shit together. Like, how do you start with somebody? Everybody's different, you know? Everybody's different. But is there anything that people, like, universally could benefit from? Yeah. Yeah. The number one thing that, where I start with people is having them really look at their relationship with themselves.

Because when they come, they're like, oh, I'm fucked up or I need help. They're relating to themselves as if something's, you know, something's wrong with them and they're being really hard on themselves and they've kind of lost hope and lost belief in themselves. So the first thing is just like acceptance, accepting where you are. Because, you know, I haven't liked everything that's happened to me, but one of the main ways I've been able to move through it is because I stopped fighting it. Isn't that like in martial arts? If a punch comes at you, you're not supposed to resist it. You're supposed to kind of move with it.

Yeah, move away from it or roll with it. Roll with it, right. You don't like bite your teeth and take it on the jaw. Exactly. And in life, we kind of do that. We're like, oh, I don't want this breakup. I don't want this layoff. We resist it.

We fight it. And so it's like, can we just get to acceptance of like where you are, who you are and what's happening right now? And perspective, right? different things. And then the second thing is, I asked people, like, do you believe you can shift? Do you believe that you have like the power to make different choices and change? And you don't have to know how that's, that's my job. I'll help you with the how, but you've got to believe you can. Because if we don't believe it's possible for us, and it's really hard to make any kind of change in our life. Yeah, that is, that is giant. But how does someone believe? Like, how do you get someone to believe

that they can make change? Like, do they have to see evidence in themselves? Is there like, do you recommend like attempting things or tasks or hobbies or? Right. Well, a lot of times it's going back to a time in your life where you did take a chance or you did do something

that was a stretch in some way. Like, everybody has times in their life where they've done something they weren't completely sure they could do, even if it's just a little thing. And everybody has that reference point they can go back to. But a lot of this show, like, honestly,

a lot of it is taking a leap of faith. And I, I've taken a lot of those and I've wanted to know the answer and I've wanted to know like 100% that this would be guaranteed. Like if I take this leap of faith, everything will work out. And I, they haven't always been 100% guarantees, but it was in taking that leap and taking that chance and having a little faith that things started showing up and things started shifting. And that's what started to create the evidence. And it's a tricky thing because I think people want evidence before they make change, but you have to start making these little changes to start having the evidence show up.

I don't know if I answered your question. No, that does make sense. I've often said that very difficult tasks, like anything that's difficult that you do, it gives you the confidence that you can overcome adversity. Whether it's a martial art thing or something along those lines or marathon running or anything, when you do something like that, these incremental changes happen where you push yourself through things and you, especially if you can achieve a goal, if you could set out to do something, you achieve that goal. Like I'm going to run a marathon by the end of this year. I don't know why I keep saying marathon, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Doing things along those lines, they can be motivating factors or they can help push you. They can be the engine that starts to push things in a positive direction.

And you start to believe in yourself and you start to believe, oh, wow, like I can do this. I can take this step. You know, I often tell people that show up or come to workshop where I'm like, just that fact that you're here is proof that you believe you can change because like you wouldn't have shown up if some part of you wasn't kind of certain that you could. Have you ever had someone come to you, you're like, I can't even help this dude or girl? Not yet, no.

Do you get mostly dudes or girls? Well, I only coach a few people now. My retreats are mostly women. My private clients both. And then my courses and stuff. How come you have retreats that are all women and not?

Well, I know, I know. I'm going to do one that will be both men and women soon. That sounds like a recipe for danger too.

I know. Depressed people humping in the woods or wherever you're going. Well, first of all, not everybody's depressed. Some people come

just to grow and like, and they're not, we're not out in the woods. I love that you think my retreats are out in the woods I love that you think my retreats are out in the woods I'm just making it fun I don't know what you're doing

oh my god that's amazing no I like to do it in places like Bali and Costa Rica oh okay the jungle super fuck the woods

let's get there with the bugs and the crocodiles and shit oh my gosh I finally for people this might be helpful

to some people so I whenever I go to anywhere tropical, I get eaten alive. Like eaten alive, no matter what. Other people have three bites, I'll have 400. I finally figured out B1, vitamin B1, that's totally stopped it. Really? You have to find it. Like you can't take a B complex.

It's vitamin B1. Huh. And it's for some reason stops the mosquitoes and bug bites. I gotta write that down. Why B1? I have no idea. I just know it worked for me. Does something to change your smell? I don't know. It just worked.

It was my salvation. I was so happy. So they don't bite you at all? A little bit. But again, it went from being eaten alive to just getting a few. Did you ever try a Thermocell? No, what's that? Thermocell is a device that a lot of people take when they go camping, things along those lines. It looks almost like a radio, and it has these little pads, and you slide these pads into this heating element,

and this very fine mist comes out of this heating element you could put it on the ground near you and the bugs won't come within an 18 foot circle really yeah yeah use it when you're hunting and you're in the woods because if you're if you're in the woods like especially in alaska or alberta i don't know if you've ever been to alaska in the summer no the mosquitoes are insane because they own, they're only alive for a month. Oh, so they just go to town. They're like, yeah, like rabid barbarian mosquitoes. Like me and my friend Ari went fishing in Alaska and it was so crazy that you would get out of the car. We pulled up to this, uh, the stream, you get out of the car, you open the door

and then you're hit with a cloud of mosquitoes. We jumped back in the car and shut the door, and we were in the car with like 50 mosquitoes. We were like, what in the fuck is going on? So then we're spraying ourselves with all this spray, all these toxic chemicals. Hell, hell. Then I found out about Thermocells. Thermocells just, it cleans it out totally. And they're easy to travel with?

Yeah, they're really light. It doesn't even smell. I mean, it barely smells, but bugs don't want they're easy to travel with? Yeah, they're really light. It doesn't even smell. I mean, it barely smells. But bugs don't want to have anything to do with it. Mosquitoes don't want to have anything to do with it. Without thermosels hanging out in the woods, like sitting in a spot, it's almost unbearable. Unless you have mosquito netting. And you don't want to wear all that mosquito bug spray stuff.

Your skin is an organ. All that stuff that you're putting on your skin, it is just not good for you. It's not. I was using DEET my first couple days on my last trip and I started getting sick and I was like, I can't. What am I doing? You're processing it with your liver. It's going through your skin. It gets in your bloodstream.

It's terrible. I'm sure there's probably some non-toxic alternatives, but they probably don't work that good. B1, huh? It worked for me. Hey. B1. Yeah. You hear it, folks.

It's a plug. I've heard that before. A friend of mine was telling me that about Africa, that they went to Africa and they took a bunch of B vitamins and that did it. But B1 in particular. Did it for me. Find anything on that, Jamie? I found something that said that studies are inconclusive, but it may make mosquitoes think

you stink. Good. Perfect. Good. It's fine for me. Stink it up. I wonder if there's like a vitamin that makes people think you smell good. People or mosquitoes?

People. People? Yeah, because of bananas. Don't eat bananas. This is for mosquito season. Don't eat bananas. That makes sense. They're just attracted to it.

But I would think that like, like there's probably like weird smells that you're not even sure you detect. You know, some people just give off a weird odor to people. Yes. I mean, not even like a, maybe not an odor odor, but like they just feel weird. You know? You know, they said that Chris Ryan, my friend, who's a, he's an author. He wrote Sex at Dawn.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I've met him. He's great. Super smart guy. Yeah, super smart guy. He was telling me that there's certain odors that human beings have, and those odors enable people to understand whether or not they're genetically compatible with each other. And, you know, like there used to be when we were kids, I used to always hear about couples taking blood tests to make sure that they could have babies together.

Yeah, that was a thing. That was a thing. They would make sure that they were compatible. And I don't even know if it was real science behind it, but they would take blood tests to find out if they were compatible. That was like, I remember it being like really common to discuss. I mean this is uh the 80s or the 90s or whatever the fuck it was the Dark Ages of science If only it was that easy to know that test right but not compatible obviously personality wise and all the other things that come into play but

They were Chris Ryan was saying that women can smell a man's clothes like you could smell literally smell their clothes and they would know whether or not they would be attracted to that person based on the smell that a person's getting not not like oh my god this guy stinks but like literally like you your body knows what's repulsive and what's not repulsive in terms of genetics based on someone's odor that they give off on their clothes. But what it didn't work is when they put women on the pill. Huh. So when they put women on the pill, they were no longer able to differentiate whether or not someone was genetically compatible by smelling them. That it gave you, it fogged up your natural senses.

Yeah, because I think when you're on the pill, you don't actually ovulate. Right. Right, so you're not in the natural rhythm of biology. Yeah, I think there's a natural feeling that women have when they're around a guy that they would breed with or a guy they wouldn't breed with. They're like, okay, gotta go.

You know, like that, and that is probably a good thing. And that people that are on the pill might be making like really shitty genetic choices, like literally genetic choices. Oh, you can blame your last bad ex-boyfriend on being on the pill. You could. Not being able to smell him accurately. I really think you can. I mean, it totally makes sense. I probably, Chris is probably listening to this right now going, you fucked it i probably did but i think there's probably something to instinctual reactions to people yeah like i mean have you ever met someone like for whatever reason i just don't want to be around

this person and then you find out like years later that that person's fucking crazy or this or that there's i think people give off indetectable in terms of what we classify as smells, but maybe these pheromones have some sort of a weird reaction to you. Birth control pills affects women's taste in men. Bam! Wow. How synthetic hormones change desires in women

and their choice of a mate. In a mate. Yeah, totally makes sense. Interesting. Yeah, well, it just makes sense. Interesting. Yeah. Well, it just makes sense. I mean, it just can't be nor your body must be so confused. Like this bitch is pregnant all the time. I know.

I know. That's what it thinks. Your body thinks you're pregnant all the time. I know. That's yeah. The pill scares me to just synthetic hormones pumping through your system. Yeah. Can't can't be all that good to never get off. But a lot of women never get off it. Right. They're on it forever your system. Yeah. Can't, can't be all that good to never get off,

but a lot of women never get off it. Right. They're on it forever. Yep. Yeah. I don't like it. It makes my hair oily when I'm off it. Yep.

Here's stuff like that. There's other ways to balance your hormones. You know, I'm not a hormone specialist, but why does hormones make a girl's hair oily? I don't know. I have no idea. How do we get on the subject?

Smells, uh, retreats. You don't take dudes. Dudes on retreats. Yeah, I would think that getting a bunch of people that are trying to get their life together and then having them all together, male and female, you run into these weird issues where they're trying to hook up. Yeah, exactly. You can get really distracted and you can get, like, if there's some kind of attraction, you can forget what you're there for and get obsessed with someone and it can kind of throw off the thing. And there's something too about, you know, women coming together with women and men coming together with men that I think is important. And I think kind of back to that tribal conversation we need.

conversation we need. A lot of women, including myself, have like beef with other women, you know, and they don't like being around just a bunch of other women. Like there's competition that comes up. You get that? Well, I used to because I was scared of other women because I had all that stuff happen. I didn't really trust it. And so when you get a group of women together, a lot of times there is that like comparison and judgment and I can't trust and da da da. A lot of times there is that like comparison and judgment and I can't trust and da da da. And so it's important for women, I think, to gather together and kind of do work separately from when there's men there because there's something that is very healing just in that. And then, you know, it just there's a level of vulnerability that's possible when there aren't men there. Not to say that you can't be vulnerable with men there, but it's just a different dynamic. And I think the same goes for men. Like I know men who do men's groups and men's work and there's great value in that. And that's important. And I think one of the problems I see a lot in intimate relationships is that in a heterosexual relationship is that you expect this one person to be your everything.

one person to be your everything and you're not you don't have a tribe and you don't have a community you don't have friends of the opposite sex and the same sex that are fulfilling kind of these needs that we all have we just project like this my one person has to be my everything my soulmate and so you know having your community whatever it may be and having different friends i think is super super important to having a healthy relationship yeah having friends period is super important there's something that i healthy relationship. Yeah. Having friends period is super important. There was something that I tweeted today that I was reading about. They were talking about the role that genetics and family have in creating a personality and how much of an impact your peers have.

And they think that your peers and the friends you choose have a bigger impact than anything in your life. Yeah. And it was really fascinating. I tweeted this morning. But it's one of those articles where you read it and you go, oh, that completely makes sense. A researcher argues that peers are much more important than parents,

that psychologists underestimate the power of genetics, and that we have a lot to learn from Asian classrooms. Interesting. What about Asian classrooms? I'm going to have to go down and scroll. I forgot what that was about. I don't know. Probably too long of an article to really get into it.

But we'd have to read it. But peers in general, I think choosing like-minded folks and choosing people that are on a good path, it helps support you and it supports them and you feed off of each other. And when the tribe does well, you do well. Exactly. It's very critical. And everybody wants to be the person that's accomplishing things. Everybody wants to be the one that's out there, go getting it and fuck the world. It's all about me.

But if you do that, you're going to mess up the whole happiness thing. The happiness thing comes with all the people that you're around having a good time. Absolutely. Yeah. And then it's just like, it's endless. You have to keep upping the ante. And I think what we want more than anything is connection. We want connection. We want love. We want to feel like we belong.

I think belonging is a huge, huge, huge thing. And I think as adults, we think we belong by, you know, achieving things. But really, it's finding those people that you can just be yourself with and to have that tribe. And also let go of the people that are bringing you down. Like, I've outgrown some people in my life and some friends. Not that I'm better than, but I'm just on, like, a different path and a different route. And it's important, I think, to kind of know, like, who's the sort of dead weight in your life? And what are some friendships that might have reached their expiration date that, you like i love you it's been great but you know and a lot of those

friendships like you're not helping them either no you in a matter of fact sometimes when someone cuts you loose you go what the fuck is wrong with me maybe i need to look at myself right i mean sometimes when you enable a friend you're not only you're not doing yourself any good you're not doing them any good either exactly that was a big aha for me when um my fiance broke up with me because i very much like wanted to be like the victim in that but i had to look at gosh what did i like what did i do because everybody's like oh he's such a jerk but i really had to look at how was I showing up in that relationship that was impacting his decision? Because he wasn't a bad guy. Like he wasn't just a jerk who decided, you know, I'm going to break up with this girl. Like there were ways I was showing up that were

that like made him make the decision that he makes. So I think in any of those situations, friendship or relationship, you know, you don't you don't want to go too far the other extreme and be like, oh, my gosh, I. And, and think it's all your fault, but it's important to look at, geez, what's my part in this? You know, what's my responsibility? Cause I played a role in, in this whole thing. Yeah. I mean, there's no one way street when it comes to a relationship. And if you're in a relationship with a bad person, like why, why, why'd you get in that in the first place?

Did they trick you? If they did trick you, what did you do when you realized it was a trick? Did you stick around, try to fix it? Yeah. I think that's a really good question because, I mean, how many people do you know that are in bad relationships, continue talking about it, but aren't doing anything about it? Those people are brutal. They're not leaving it. Those people are brutal.

They are because you're just like why but a lot of times it's because it's familiar and it's they what there's somebody said um you know you get the love you think you deserve and it may be easy for us looking outside going oh my gosh it's so easy you should just like leave this relationship. But a lot of times the person like doesn't think they can do better. Or maybe this is like playing out some dynamic they had with their parent. Or, you know, you sort of need to understand why you're in it before you can actually make the choice to get out of it. By the way, there's a lot of delusional people out there.

They're like, I deserve a lot more than I'm getting. That's true. That's not real either. That's true. What do you do when someone comes to you with unrealistic expectations or they don't want to see themselves like, you know, you tell them what they need to do or what they should consider and they argue with you about it? Well, I just really ask, like, is what you're doing working?

Like, is your way working? If you can show me your way is working, then great. Like, my way is fine. It's just fucking the other people. Everybody else. Everybody else is all messed up. I'm good. God damn it.

Yeah. I need you to coach everyone else I know. Yep. If we could just change other people, it's everybody else's fault. Yep. Do you ever have to tell people you're not going to work with them? I've had one person I had to tell that to. Yep.

Just one. And it was, you know, I think it was, it was just not a good fit. And she just wasn't ready, willing, was super committed to her story. And sort of wanted me just to coddle it, which I wasn't willing to do. Yeah. Sometimes people just want someone to, that's what I've always wondered about therapy like i have friends that have been to therapy i'm like okay what do you do you go there you talk about your problems no one happens well they give you advice and no one happens you don't do shit you know like there's a lot of people that

just want to go somewhere and want someone to listen to them talk right right they'll go three four times a week and they're still fucked up yep Yeah. I'm like, well, that isn't working. Yeah, it doesn't. And I think my intention always is to really give people the tools, not just advice. It really helped them heal really good. I've had amazing teachers. I've been really, really lucky. And they've really taught. They haven't just given me advice. They haven't just given me motivation. They've really given me tools to heal and change. And that's what I try to do in my work with people is show them that A, it's possible and that you can do it and give them the tools to do it. Because that's what, that's going to last longer than any kind of like pep talk it was funny we were talking before the podcast started about going to a seminar and someone asking how many men here feel vulnerable and like no one's putting their hand up how many women here feel vulnerable all the hands went up all the hands went up and i mean part of it i think is a little delusional because i think a lot of men are way more vulnerable than they really think they are. But also there's just a different thing going through life. I mean, there's that expression, the fair sex or, but being a female, being a woman

means you're physically different. You're around a bunch of people that most of them could beat you up. Yep. You know, that's. Yep. It's a different way to walk through the world. That vulnerability, though, is that creates another level of anxiety, right? Like walking down a dark street, you see someone and it's a man and he's walking down the dark street, too.

Like, oh, you know. Yeah, it's it's scary. And it's something that, you know, I as a woman, like I'm always aware of it. Not always, but a lot of the time, you know, because I I know that, like you said, I I could get beaten up like it's between me and a man. He's probably going to win. I mean, I'm pretty strong, but not that strong. And I think what's also beautiful about women and just the feminine in general is that vulnerability. But because like it sometimes doesn't feel safe, I think that's why a lot of women

like kind of have a protective armor and are guarded and sometimes more in their like masculine energy in the world is because on some level, we feel like we have to, we have to like protect ourselves. And whereas that vulnerability really is the thing that makes us women in so many ways, not and I think we confuse vulnerability with weakness, because vulnerability to me is being open, being available, being soft, but not weak. Weakness to me is more about kind of going into the victim me and going into the poor

pitiful me and the feeling sorry for and on all of those kinds of things. I think there's beautiful power and vulnerability. But when we're talking about just physical strength, yeah, I mean, for the most part, men have the advantage on that one. It's just, we need all the pieces. Right. You need the whole spectrum of human beings. Right. And, I mean, especially in terms of, you know, the traditional way of looking at things, you know, masculine men are attracted to feminine women and feminine women are attracted to masculine men. And we both need each other. But a lot of times, especially when you're dealing with damaged folks, you're dealing with a man who has a vulnerable woman and the man's all fucked up. So he takes it out on the vulnerable woman. And the vulnerable woman is like under the, you know, the pressure of the relationship or the suppression of being connected to this man.

And so you're kind of dealing with the same dynamic that you were dealing with when you were in school. Where someone's bullying you. And you get it in this relationship then. Instead of someone appreciating you for the difference in the softness versus the horror, the yin and the yang. Now you have someone who's exploiting that. And you see it with women too. You see it with aggressive women and weak men. That is, to me, one of the saddest things I ever see.

I know. Is when you find the aggressive women and the weak men. Probably because I'm terrified of it ever being me. You know? I don't think it will be. I don't think you're going to be afraid of that. But, I mean, if it was, you know, nobody wants that. You know, nobody wants the woman who's yelling at you.

And the guy's like, okay, okay, okay. That happens a lot. A lot. A lot. It's kind of crazy to me because, you know, I see women emasculate men quite often, you know, not maybe on like a huge scale to the degree you're talking about. But just like the little comments, like I'll be out with a couple and the woman will say something and it's it's kind of emasculating but if the roles are reversed and the guy said something like that to the woman i don't know if it would go over you know guys just kind of take it on on sometimes and then when i see that i'm

like well a lot of men feel emasculated by society in general, just by the roles that they play in the office and just the physical act of going through life, this civilized world. And also constantly needing people's affirmation, needing people's acceptance. And and you you sort of become what people want you to be. Even if that's not what you want, you get in these relationships and you see it all the time where guys sort of accept a little bit and then they accept more and then they don't want to mess up. And then they, I have a bunch of friends that have like really domineering, overbearing wives or girlfriends. And it's weird. It's weird to be around them. Like, dude, you know you can leave.

Like, this is just a person. Why do you think they don't? Because they're scared. They're scared. And it becomes their thing. You know, that's the thing. This is the thing. Oh, the fucking wife.

We're going to go home to the wife. Yeah. You know, and it's very strange. It's very strange when you have someone in your life that's essentially like a parole officer. Yeah. Someone in your life that gets to tell you what to do. And you're not allowed to do certain things. You're not allowed to watch certain things or like certain things. And they control you and they own you. I mean, this, this, and I think a lot of these people that are doing that much like the girl who bullied you or any, anybody who does that to someone, they do it out of fear. They do it out of insecurity.

And they also do it out of this bizarre instinct because they can. I used to date this girl. She wasn't a bad person, but she used to like to fight. And I do not. I do not like to. I don't like that kind of conflict. I don't like interrelationship conflict. I don't like it.

I don't fight. I don't argue. I just rather leave. I'm'm into i'm into discussing things but when people start yelling and get crazy i'm like fuck this i grew up anywhere i grew up around domestic violence too i grew up with the so i i saw it when i was a kid i just i'm not interested and um so we broke up but we stayed friends and then years later um we went out to coffee and like how's everything what's going on oh i'm living this guy it's not going good i'm like why she's like she's telling me how she yells at this guy and she can't help it she's like i

can't help it i just fucking yell at him and he doesn't do anything he just takes it and she's like when he takes it i just want to fucking smash him. She's like, I just can't. She goes, I don't want to yell at him, but I can't help doing it. And then when he's gone,

I'm like, why the fuck did I do that? And she had this weird, almost like a natural impulse to dominate this guy. Like, have you ever seen two dogs where one dog has the upper hand on the, on the dog and he'll go near the dog and the other dog? And that's just that's just their world.

That's just their world. The other dog never gets a chance. And sometimes it's not even a size based thing. They might be the exact same size dog. Just one dog just decides the bitch and the other one's the dominator. And that's just how it goes. Right. Well, she was in this position with this guy where she just had this compelling desire to fucking yell at him and i go well what are you yelling

at him for she's like anything everything she goes i just i just fucking i want him to tell me to shut the fuck up yeah she wanted him to outman her yeah but isn't that crazy like what a bizarre instinct to like to to push like she was frustrated at herself she was frustrated at him but it's almost like she was compelled like she's being drawn to the great magnet you know it's like oh i can't help it i'm gonna scream at him right well it's interesting like how we project onto other people you know like whatever something was going on inside of her that was like creating that dynamic in him. And she could have left at any time, but it was like she was so trying to get a reaction

out of him, honestly, to probably see if he cared. Like she probably equated, all right, well, him taking it means he doesn't care. So how much can I push? How much can I push? How much can I push so that I can see that he'll react enough? Because that made me think he cares. Do you think that's what it is, that she didn't think he cares or do you think she just thinks he's weak and it's just frustrating to her that he's weak well if it was just that i think she

would have left a lot earlier there was something she wanted like we don't keep doing it over and over and over again unless there's something we're attached to getting like you know when we're just when we're like oh man this is stupid we get out of there but when we're just when we're like, oh, man, this is stupid. We get out of there. But when we find ourselves in situations where it's like it's happening over and over and over again and we continue to get frustrated, but we're not leaving. There's something we're attached to trying to get from our behavior. So there was something she wanted in that. There was something in it for her. Otherwise, she would be out of there a lot sooner. I wonder.

It was also she was trying to do the acting thing. And she was constantly frustrated yeah she was constantly just taking it out on him yeah well that it was it would be really interesting like I'd watch these like almost sort of manic things like there would be these moments where you know she would be preparing for an audition and she'd be hopeful yet nervous there was a lot of anxiety and there was all this here's the thing and it's gonna things gonna go and hopefully if this happens this guy's connected to this and that's gonna happen with that and then boom it didn't happen and so there's this massive letdown right cigarette smoking and depression and you know all this angst yep and

um i got the fuck out of there but this dude But this dude got in there and he caught the second wave of angst. Yeah. When I met her, she was just moving here. Yeah. And so she wasn't completely bewildered by the experience and the machine yet. Yeah. And it's also, I think, for some people, choosing things that you do for a living that are healthy for you. I think there's a lot of people that get involved in careers that require too much of their time.

You don't really want to do it, but you get caught up in it, whether it's being a lawyer or being a doctor or being something that has a prestigious title where you feel like there's something great. But really, in the back of your mind, there's something else that you probably would be way happier doing. I mean, that was me. I was going after it for the wrong reasons. What do you want to do, though? If you weren't doing a life coach, I know you enjoy doing what you're doing. Oh, gosh. Like if somehow or another you were independently wealthy and you didn't have to coach all these crazy people anymore.

Not that they're crazy, but some of them are probably crazy. Well, I kind of do it. I mean, like I, you know, I love people and I love personal development. Even if I had all the money in the world, I'd still speak. I'd still do my podcast. I'd still do retreats. I, I love it. Like I love the human experience. I love being there for that moment where someone has a major insight, where they connect dots. And it's like, whoa, a massive perspective shift. And all of a sudden, they start to kind of move a different direction. I can't imagine doing anything else.

I mean, if I could sing, if I had any kind of music ability, I think it'd be awesome to be a rock star, just to have that rush. But literally, I have no musical ability whatsoever other than like listening to it. I'm just do not have this. Well, that's great. So you found your thing. Now, how often is it when you talk to people, when you're trying to coach them and help them and you realize like, man, you got to do something else. Like, is that a factor?

Because I would think that the thing about careers is not only is it eight hours of your time, but it also kind of defines you. So every day you're defined by whatever you do. And oftentimes, like we were talking about, like men in these workplace environments, they're sort of like they're boxed into this predetermined pattern of behavior that's expected from them. You know, they have shoes with tassels on them and ties and they have to talk like, you know, business talk. You know, it's like you fall into these weird patterns. You do. And you lose a lot of your individuality inside those patterns because office life and, you

know, human resources demand certain things of you. Like there's a certain your personality, like when you're in an office environment, anytime you're in the corporate world, your personality is stuffed into this form. Right. You know, whatever that form is, whatever that mold is, the mold of being a business person. You know, you're a woman. You're a businesswoman. You want to be respected. You want to use the right words and say the right things and, you know, and talk the right lingo.

But like a lot of times people are left wondering, who the fuck am I? Right. Right. They just get totally lost in a role. Mm hmm. Yeah. And I do like I go do a lot of corporate speaking and I have a lot of people come up to me afterwards and they're just like, oh, my gosh, like I because I talk about, you know, how we lose

ourselves in these roles and how like a lot of times our adult life becomes sort of just this like checklist. Follow Truman show like one thing after the other, just like follow this structure that was set out for us that we never checked in and said, do I want this? Like, do I even want this? You know, and so to answer your question, yes, a lot of times when people come, or I'm working with people, it is like looking at, like, is this, is this career right for you? Is this relationship right for you? Like, what have you created in your life that just doesn't fit where you are, but you're in it because you're scared to make the change. And also, you know, some people really can be happy in corporate America, like some people that works for them.

Some people really can be happy in corporate America. Like some people that works for them. A few strange freaks. I firmly really believe that the vast majority of people that are living the American dream, living that life, doing that nine to five, the vast majority of them are fucking horrifically miserable. Yeah. I really do believe that. I think it's so defining and it's so contrary to the human spirit. Right. Right. But I think most people don't want to believe that. They don't want to believe it's possible that everybody's doing something wrong. Right. And they don't believe

they can change it. Yeah. There's no other options. They don't know what else to do, especially if they have a mortgage and a spouse and kids. Student loans. All that stuff. Yeah. you know, a mortgage and a spouse and kids. Student loans. All that stuff. Yeah. It's really intimidating to go, oh gosh, how do I, how do I change this? Yeah.

I think you have to start small. I think you have to start with, okay, I don't have to quit my job tomorrow, but what are some things in my life I can start doing that make me feel alive again? Like, is it a hobby? Is it like training for a marathon? Is it, what is going to start making me feel like, you know, I'm creative and I matter and I'm more than just this role as husband, wife, mother, father, corporate executive, whatever it is. So I think that's a good place to start is something small you can do to make you feel

alive again because anybody has access to that. You don't have to leave your job to start creating some things in your life that can start to shift things. And then, like we were talking about, then it's like the gradual change, you know, because I don't think it's possible for most people just to quit their job tomorrow. They don't think it's possible. Almost no one. Right. Almost no one can just quit.

And not everybody's meant to be an entrepreneur either and do their own thing. But there are always things we can do in our life to mix it up a little bit and even to show up differently in our job. Yeah. I just think that for a huge amount of people, the amount of time that's required of them because of their job is so overwhelming because most people, let's be honest, are not really just working nine to five, particularly most men. There's a tremendous amount of overtime involved. I was looking at this something that was talking about. It was an article on the wage gap difference and what it really is about. And one of the things that it was about was the amount of the difference in the amount

of hours that men work and their ambition to try to climb up the corporate ladder. Yeah. And you look at the numbers that people work and it's terrifying. There's no life. If you're working 60 hours a week, you don't have a life. There's nothing left. If I work, I'll do a podcast for three hours and I'll do a bunch of other stuff. And, you know, I'm trying to fit in things in my day and I have a pretty loose schedule.

I mean, I do a lot of things, but it's pretty loose. You know, like today I did UFC stuff for a couple hours this morning and then I come here for a few hours. Then I got to work out. Then I'll tell some jokes. But there's a lot of like movement in there. There's a lot of time where I can get shit done. Yeah. Some people don't have any of that.

They have nothing. So what do you think was like that made you different? Like back in the day where you could have done that path of the corporate route? Why did you make different choices? It's a good question. I don't know. Probably. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I never felt like I could. I never felt like I could have a regular job. Like I from the time I got out of high school, I never had a full time job. I had a bunch of part time jobs. I did some full-time jobs where construction companies and stuff, but I didn't last. I would do them for like a month or a couple of weeks. And I was like, fuck this.

Like whatever it is about. And it was all, it was the main source of all my problems in high school. All my problems in high school is I was not willing to do things I didn't want to do. So I would barely get by through high school. I would take tests, you know, that would register intelligence or measure intelligence. That'd be great. Everything's fine.

But I would take actual tests based on what I was supposed to be studying and I fucking barely paid attention. I mean, I squoze through high school with like a C average in most things. I barely got by. And even when I was going to college, I was only going to college. I went to Boston university and, uh, or UMass rather in Boston. And the only reason why I went is because I didn't want anybody to think I was a loser. So I was taking classes at UMass and it was a way, and I was teaching Taekwondo

at Boston university, which was like a, a really good school. And I was looking at all these people that were preparing for life. And to me, it was like, you're going to go get eaten by alligators or something. And I was like, what are you going to do? You're going to go get a job. You're going to be working nine to five for whatever, whatever fucked up thing that was wrong in my head. I would way rather get up in the morning and deliver newspapers for three hours a day or drive limos at night. I had a really unstable childhood. So in my mind, anything that you were locked down to was death. It was prison.

And I whatever malfunction of my brain, I figured out a way to make it work for me. Well, it was a survival skill. Yeah. Yeah. In some way. Yeah. But also a lack of, like, I'm not very disciplined. It looks like I'm disciplined on the outside.

I'm not disciplined at all. I'm obsessed. I get obsessed with things. I'm disciplined in certain aspects, like with exercise, and I do it when I don't want to do it. I force myself to practice, and I force myself to practice and I force myself to write. I force myself to do things. But more of it, it's more of an obsession thing. Like I get obsessed with either goals or tasks or things or puzzles or games.

I have a real problem. Like there's something wrong with me. Well, why do you say that? Does it feel draining when you get obsessed with something? No, because like I'll play pool for 12 hours in a row. Okay. Like I'll get obsessed with playing pool. And then I think I'm going to be the world champion.

I'm going to practice 12 hours a day for the rest of my life. I mean, I'm a sick person. Like whatever happened to me when I was young, like whatever weirdness involved, I figured out a way to manage it. But it can get away from me. It's gotten away from me before where I play video games like 8, 10 hours manage it, but it can get away from me. It's gotten away from me before where I play video games like eight, 10 hours a day. Like it can get away. Like I have to manage whatever craziness that makes me like focus on things. I see it in my kids, especially my middle daughter. She gets obsessed with things. And I'm like, wow, this is crazy. This is like a

genetic thing. It's like watching a little female me in a lot of ways you know like she read all eight harry potter books in a matter of a couple of months she just she just just gets into stuff and then like you gotta go hey shut the light out you gotta go to bed one more chapter like come on you gotta stop it's it but i'm it's not like she's seeing it in me and she's mirroring it because But it's not like she's seeing it in me and she's mirroring it because it's her own little weirdness, you know. But I think it's obviously she's got a healthier environment than I grew up in. So it's not like a matter of like not ever wanting to be connected to anything permanent because nothing is permanent. I mean, that was part of, I think, the lessons from my childhood.

Like no one's here to help you. Don't get locked in any fucking job. Don't get locked in any, get ready to move at any time. You know? And embracing moving. Like, to this day, I'll be like, I gotta get the fuck out of LA. You're like, everything's here. I have to do everything here.

The comedy store's here. My family's here. My kids go to school here. All my friends live here. But I'm like, fuck this. I'm going to the mountains. I gotta get out of here. Like, I have this, like, nomad shit in me that I'm like constantly trying to um to uh manage so as much as people like to take credit for a certain amount of success like I can tell you all the different

things that I did that led to me being successful at things but almost it's like the function of a mental issue. Like a big, a lot of it is a function of learning how to manage a brain that doesn't work like everybody else's brain. especially. And the difference is you're aware of how it works and you've learned how to manage it. But that, you know, that obsessive thing, in so many ways, it has made you, it has gotten you a certain degree of success. And all of those things, survival skills, compensatory strategies, whatever they are, they have their positives. They have ways that they really help us. But then they have the ways that kind of torture us in a lot of ways. And I think growth is really about understanding what are the ways that this isn't doing me any good and how can I be mindful of it? And also like, you know, how, how do I know now that like that now is not then like, how do I, you know, stop being activated by old experiences in my past and just have peace for where I am now and take those gifts from the obsession that's made you successful but not have the parts that kind of torture you at the same time. Well, I don't feel tortured.

So I think in some ways I've achieved some sort of a victory over my whatever mental issues that I have. But I can't do nothing. Right. I don't have. That's the reason why I have, but I can't do nothing. Right. I don't have, I like, that's the reason why I have three jobs. Like, you know,

I can't do that. If I do, and I have three jobs and a fucking ton of obsessions outside of those jobs, martial arts, uh, archery, uh, reading and writing and all sorts of other stuff on top of podcasting,

doing the commentary for the UFC, doing standup comedy. Like that's the only for the UFC, doing stand-up comedy. That's the only way I feel even. And I can't have one thing that I count on either. If I only had stand-up comedy or I only had the UFC, if there's only one thing or I only had podcasting, I'd be like, this is my, I would want to quit. I'd be like, I don't want to do this anymore.

This is my fucking thing. I'm just going to be trapped doing this thing,, I would want to quit. I'd be like, I don't want to do this anymore. This is my fucking thing. I'm just going to be trapped doing this thing. Talking into a fucking microphone out into space for the rest of my life. I don't even want to hear myself anymore. I'm going to quit. So whatever weird malfunction my brain has had, I've figured out a way over all the years of my life to manage it. But a lot of it's physical too.

Managing my brain, a lot of it requires intense exercise. Like when I intensely exercise, then I can like, oh, all right. It's going to be all right. It's going to be cool. But if I don't. It's like pent up. Yeah. It's like it's all built up and then it's hard to enjoy things. It's hard to just chill.

I can't chill unless I earn it. It's probably a malfunction, but the illusion is that it's not. The illusion is that it's a discipline and that it's all choices, but that's really not the case. Maybe it's just you and how you operate, your operating system. Are you coaching me now so what's going on here does that feel like i am yes it does uh yeah maybe it is me i mean i think people and that's not a bad thing like that's you know i think that they're back to the acceptance thing there's a lot of ways i think we're supposed to be And we look at other people and how they do their life or whatever.

And we think that because we're acting this way, something must be wrong with us. But a lot of times there's not. This is just the way you operate. Yeah. You know what? Another thing that's interesting is when I was a kid, I was not very confident and also didn't like to talk to people.

Really? I would get anxiety. I'd get anxiety if I had to talk. And I'd get anxiety if I had to talk to a bank teller. If I had to wait in line to go to the bank teller, I'd start freaking out on my way to the bank teller. And if you talk to people who knew me from high school and they'll go, did you ever think that Joe was going to be a comedian? They'd be like, no. No? No fucking way.

That guy wasn't funny. Like they didn't, I figured out a way to be more relaxed socially and it wasn't an easy process at all. It took forever to the point where now I'm extremely relaxed socially. Like now I can talk to anybody. Like I, I love one of the things I love about doing podcasts. I like just having conversations with people.

I want to know, like, you're another organism. You're another person. I want to know what's going on in your head. I don't understand your life. I want to try to see what connections you've made, what definitions you've fallen on, how you've defined this world, how you've categorized things things and how you're managing it, how you're maneuvering through it. I'm fascinated by that. I'm fascinated by the thoughts that people carry around inside their heads. Yeah, me too.

Yeah. I love it. And whether or not they're empowering or whether or not you're a woe is me type person, you know. And what are the puzzle pieces that have led to where you are? And I love that you're sharing this because I think a lot of people can see you and see your success and everything that you have and think you're always like this and that it's just been easy because, you know, you're always like this. But to know you had that background and you had the social anxiety

and this is like such a stretch I think it's really inspiring because it gives people it's like oh you can't you can no longer argue that you know you're just born a certain way and like that's just the way you are like you're proof that you actually can change and you can get over things and you can create things that you know you probably didn't think were possible when you were 10 or however old you were when you were going through all that stuff yeah i think there people have different starting points you know it's like i was saying that if you want to climb mount everest good luck if you're starting from santa monica you gotta fucking walk all the way to tibet it's gonna take a long ass time those oceans are gonna be hard to get across but if you're at the base of tibet

if that's where you live it's or the base of the Himalayas, it's way easier to climb that thing. You know, it's still not easy, but it's easier. And I think there's a lot of people that start, you know, in the metaphoric Santa Monica with their life. They're really far away from their goal. It doesn't mean it's not possible, but it means there's a bunch of steps, whether they're conscious or unconscious, that you're going to have to make in order to get to a position. And I still remember fucking freaking out going to a bank teller. It used to happen all the time. I just didn't want to talk to people.

I was just in my own head and I was super insecure and I just could barely get through shit, you know? And so what changed it? Just doing it over and over again? Martial arts was a big thing. The martial arts is the first thing that I ever did where I was good at it, where I didn't feel like a loser. It was like I had done, I was pretty good at art and, uh, like drawing and painting.

Yes. Yeah. And, um, I wanted to be a comic book illustrator and that was like a big focus of my life when I was younger but I mean and I and I definitely took some sort of identity in the fact that I was good at that I liked the fact that people would say I was good at it and made me feel good but it was different than martial arts because with martial arts it was the first thing that I did where I felt like I could really be exceptional. I could be really good. And then I realized that, first of all, I was gifted physically.

And then also this crazy brain of mine, if I could point it to something, like I would work out at 3 o'clock in the morning because I knew nobody else would. I knew they weren't there. So I had keys to the gym because I was teaching. So I would go there. I would wake up and I would drive down to the gym and I'd open it up in the middle of the night and put in a workout. Because I knew that no one else was doing that. I knew they weren't there.

And I felt like it gave me this edge. But also I felt like I gave me an this well yeah an edge but it also I felt like there was I was getting ahead of them yeah you know like like it was some sort of a crazy race so for between the age of 15 and 21 I was just completely obsessed with fighting and that's all I did I just I didn't I didn't know I probably barely knew who was president. I didn't know a goddamn thing about the world I wasn't reading shit unless it was like some samurai book on philosophy and combat like that was all I was obsessed with And that's when I was also a gun in and they were Anthony Robbins somewhere around that too But I was interested in like things that would give me an edge

personal development stuff that would give me an edge, personal development stuff that would give me an edge. And then through doing martial arts and then also through teaching. I think that was a big one, was teaching classes. And then teaching at BU was big, too, because when I was teaching at Boston University, I was teaching an actual class. What were you teaching? Taekwondo. Okay. At that time, I had won the U.S. Open.

I had won a bunch of different tournaments and I was doing really well as a fighter, as a martial arts competitor so they had a Taekwondo program at BU and I was teaching it and I would have to address the whole class but I would address

the whole class as something that I was really good at like I knew I could demonstrate to them some movements and stuff like that I was really good at. Like I knew I could demonstrate them to them, some movements and stuff like that. I'd show some things I'd ask someone to hold something and I'd kick it or something like that. And they'd be like, Holy shit.

And then they would listen. Like I could get, I could, I was confident in what I was saying there. And it was like the only time in my life that I could remember being confident in telling people something. It's like, I would describe how you do it.

This is how you do it. And I'll show you how to do it here. But this is how it needs to be done. And this is why. And this is what happens when you do it. And this is what's involved in the mechanisms of your body. And so that gave me the first, that was like the first feeling that I got

where I knew that there was like a light at the end of the tunnel. Or at least I knew, well, at least this, now I don't feel like a loser anymore. Yeah. Yeah. It gave you something to, like you said, be exceptional at. And I think that's what gives us confidence,

is feeling like we've somewhat mastered something, like somewhat really could understand something well enough to teach it. Yes. And without that, we're just chasing it, I think, and trying to get it through little things we do. And I think that's why a lot of people like go from career to career, job to job or whatever, trying to find that little bit of, instead of sticking with something and like really focusing in on really studying it.

And that's where I think the obsession actually served you in a lot of ways. I think for sure. And there's also an expression that I love to use that martial arts are a vehicle for developing your human potential because, because it's so difficult and it's so terrifying. And then the idea of competing and the physical consequences are so devastating. If you get hit that you are, you can't, you can't half-ass it. You can't slack off. You have to, you have to really pursue this thing with an insanity, like an incredible intensity. And then through that, you realize like, oh, I could do that.

Yeah. And then from doing that, you kind of realize, well, what if I apply that to writing a book or doing that or learning how to do something else? And for me, it was standup comedy. Wow. That see standup it was stand-up comedy. Wow. See, stand-up comedy seems just terrifying to me. Terrifying. Not as terrifying as working in a fucking office wearing tassels with shiny shoes and

fucking stupid thin socks. That's very true. Yeah. That was terrifying for me, too. God, I remember like Sunday nights, I would just get knots in my stomach. Like, just like, oh, do I have to go? The worst. And be in awful staff meetings on Monday mornings.

Draining. Sucking the oxygen out of the room. Sucking the life out of me. That's why a lot of people start taking medication. Yep. Yep. That unhappiness of just what you call quote unquote real life. There's been a structure that's put in place that we've all sort of shuffled into that doesn't serve us.

And it doesn't serve most people. I have Wim Hof on last night. You know, he is. Yeah. Tell me about him. He's amazing. But one of the things he and I were talking about, he was he gave me this number about what did he say, like 7% of people or something like that do things that are creative with their life? What, 7%?

Yeah, 7%. Like in the states or the world? I don't know. Oh. Let's get crazy and say it's 15%. That's really small. It is. Well, here's the thing.

100% of kids are creative. That's true. Like my kids, they're both always do, kids they're both they're both always do my young kids they're both always painting or drawing or doing something my older kid does music so there's like so much creativity that they they feel drawn to it and all that stuff is something that every kid does every kid draws shit every kid draws shit. Every kid plays with clay. Every kid makes stuff with Legos. You all put things together in your mind.

But somewhere along the line, we're stuffed into this structure that doesn't serve us. And we feel like we have to do it because we've been shuffled through school and into college. And then we're in debt. And then we have to take opportunities. and these opportunities is a good opportunity. It's a good, good career. It's horrific. It is. And to go back to what you were saying earlier,

these systems that we've built are so antiquated and so outdated from politics to the school system, and it all needs to change. Yes. And we're seeing it start to. And it all needs to change. Yes. And we're seeing it start to, you know, and we're seeing it start to, I think the way we educate kids, the way we relate to ADD and all these things, I think so much of ADD is like the current system

and the way kids are like confined in this classroom and have to follow these rules and sit still all day. Like there's no nurturing of creativity. Right. So I think over time, a lot of this is going to start to change i hope so because we just can't squat i see this you know with kids although i have three nephews and i see the same thing they're so creative and they're they're confident they don't care what other people think of them you know they don't have a lot of fear they and and when they do do something creative they don't judge it and go oh is it good like they just enjoy the process and that starts to phase out as we get

older and we get obsessed with other people thinking is it good enough and is this safe and will this please my parents and like will i be able to make money this way and we just get so disconnected from that childlike creativity and wonderment and curiosity and kind of no fear and faith in ourselves that we just get stuck in this kind of checklist tassel wearing life. And I think it's another tassels. Tassels are our enemy. I think there's another thing that we need to consider. And this is really important to people that are like, well, this is bullshit dreamer talk. Listen to this because this is real. That corporate world's only been around for less than a hundred years. This is a new thing in modern life. And modern life is new in terms of the length of time human beings have been alive.

This is a new thing and it doesn't serve us. And maybe with technological innovation and robots and automation and all the different shit that's coming down the line maybe there'll be less and less opportunities for you to work a slave job and you'll have to do something creative it'll be more and more compelling but this world that we've structured that doesn't serve us is incredibly recent and it's not it's not rigid like you don't have to do it. Right. Right. But it seems like you do.

It seems like you do. What's actually really cool about millennials, you know, this, the generation that's now like 20 to 35, 36 ish. That's one of the things I talk about is generational diversity and millennials.

And they're demanding a different kind of workplace. They're more likely to take a job where they have more creativity. The culture is like less cubicle based. They have more freedom than a job with like the salary and the benefits. And they're not relating to work in the same way. They're really questioning the old paradigms. They're not don't understand, like, why do I have to be there from nine to five if I can get like, get this done at home, you know, at a certain amount of time. And a lot more of them are starting their own businesses and doing the more traditional path. So I think we're already starting to see it change because we have a generation that's huge. I mean, the millennial generation is ginormous.

And they're demanding different things from work and making different choices already. So it's already shifting. It's already shifting. It's already shifting. Yeah, I also think another thing that's bullshit is the amount of time that's required to make a living, just to survive. I mean, how many people are barely being able to feed themselves and house themselves, and they're giving up their entire day and their entire week? And if you're lucky, you get that Saturday, Sunday off.

But most of the time on Saturday and Sunday, if you have an office job, you have some shit that you brought home with you that you have to sort through. Yeah, that it's the whole payment system's crazy. And then you see like these instant celebrities making all this money just by posting pictures. And you've got somebody going to a job like nine to five day after day after day barely scraping by it's just i don't know well what freaks me out is people that just move money around and they make billions like think about like hedge fund people and people that like what are you doing you're moving numbers

around and you're making numbers how much how much are you extracting while you're moving stuff around it's the like I had this conversation with this woman who's like the staunch Republican who was telling me that the minimum wage I was so ridiculous she was so adamant that you can't raise the minimum wage I'm like why not she's like was because $15 an hour it would crush businesses it would do this would do that I'm like well, well, other people disagree. Like, you don't know whether or not that is. I go, do you want to work for less than 15 bucks an hour?

She's like, well, these are entry level jobs and this and that. I'm like, well, you're still requiring an hour of someone's time. If your job, if you have a, if you have a business and your business can't pay someone $15 for an hour of their time, your business is bullshit. Yeah. It's bullshit. Or you have too many employees. Or, you know, it's not set up right.

But you're requiring the person who's at the lowest rung of the food chain to take the hit, not the business. Like, if you have a business and you can't even pay someone $15 for a whole hour of working, how much money are you generating? And why do you need all those business? Why do you need all those employees? Do it yourself. It's not an efficient business.

And I wonder what's going to happen with automation and with, you know, they're talking about like a tremendous amount of jobs that are being done right now by people that are going to be done by robots. And it's just a matter of time. Yeah. So it's even more important to nurture your creativity and know what you can do besides rely on the man or the corporation or whatever it is. Because I think a lot of people think that safety and economic security is in that, is in working for someone else. Of course. Working for a corporation, getting a good job, climbing the ladder, shooting your brains out, jumping off a building. Yeah. We don't have that much time. This is not a long run.

It's really not. It goes by really fast. I'm 49 and I feel like I was 20 yesterday. It just happens. And next thing you know, I'll be 59. And next thing you know, I'll be 59. And next thing you know, I'll be 69, you know, and then I'll be able to close my eyes and hear the yawning grave. It's coming. It's coming for all of us. You got to have fun. You got to have fun while you're here. If in any way possible. I agree. I always say that I think regret is far worse than risk.

I agree. I always say that I think regret is far worse than risk. I'd rather take risks in my life than regret playing it safe or staying in situations that I knew weren't for me. I mean, it's scary, yeah, and there's no guarantee, but at least you do it. That's where shit comes from, though. Yeah, exactly. Like that scary stuff, like, oh, that's what forces you to move. And that's what gets things done. Exactly.

Every two years, I throw away my act and I write a new one. Yeah. I do a special, like my Netflix special. I abandon all those jokes and I have to write a whole new one. And it's fucking terrifying. It's the worst. But I keep doing it. And every time I do it, it gets better.

If I keep doing it, I keep focusing on it. And all that terror and fear of taking that chance, it makes me get better at it. And that's a pretty minor thing because it's not like that much financial concern. And I'll be okay. But for someone to take a chance financially and take a chance their future and they don't really know what what the future holds. It's not like they have all these things to fall back on. That's when you fucking dig in. Exactly.

That's when you make things happen. Yeah. And if you don't, you just you just you just stay soft and lazy. Yeah. Yeah. And you never really discover your true potential if you just stay comfortable. Christine, there's people out there right now that are listening, that are getting fired up. They're listening to this right now. They're jogging in place.

And they're like, God damn it. I'm going to listen to Christine. I'm going to take a chance. It's good, right? Yeah, it's really good. It's really good. But don't just like. I think I just broke the lighter.

You're really into it. But don't just like. I think I just broke the lighter. You're really into it. But don't just like feel motivated. Like actually like commit to one thing. You know, what's one thing you can do to start shifting your life? Is it, like I said, finding that hobby? Is it like having a conversation with your boss? Is it going after that creative endeavor? Like just start.

That's the other thing. Like people think they have to know all the steps. It's like, I want to get to the second floor. I'm at the bottom of a staircase. And like, I think I just have to jump to get there. No, like you go step by step by step, just like you'd walk up a staircase. So you don't have to know it all at once. It's just taking that first step. And then that leads to another and that leads to another. And like you said, like, it's those scary moments where you find your grit and you find your potential and you find out how you respond to adversity and you find your true gifts and you can only do that in uncertainty and when you're uncomfortable.

Maybe you should be a clarity advisor. Clarity advisor? Like some kind of psychic? No, no, no. Clarity. Clarity.

Yeah. Psychic wouldn't be a clarity. Oh, this is my new term. This is my new. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. Clarity advisor. That's good. I like that. It's a little wordy. Yeah. Psychic wouldn't be a clarity. Oh, this is my new charm. This is my new. Oh, gotcha. Gotcha.

A clarity advisor. That's good. I like that. It's a little wordy. Yeah. It's not perfect. It's we're getting closer. It's a step.

It's a step. Yeah. There's something there. Right. Like you're, you know, one thing that I tell people that I think is really important. It's helped me a lot is write the things down that you need to do. Make a checklist. Yep. As far as your day. Like the best way to get shit done is to stare at that goddamn list and say, all right, today,

did I work out? Did I write? Did I do this? Did I do that? Take care of that stuff. Write all that stuff that you need to do. Do it at the beginning of the day or do it when you go to bed at night, sometimes even better. Before you go to bed at night, set your intention for the next day. Say, I'm going to get all this shit done. Write it out. Give yourself 15, 20 minutes. You have it. Everybody's got 15 minutes.

Everybody does. Yeah. And then write it down. Put it on a piece of paper. And the next day, check that shit off. Do those things. And if you could just get in the habit of doing that, it's so easy to avoid because people love to just be lazy. They love the distraction of doing nothing.

And saying they don't have time. Yes. And saying they don't have time. But that is one that has been incredibly beneficial to me is writing things down and making a list and forcing myself to check all the shit off that's on that list. Yeah. And doing the things you don't always feel like doing. And also being accountable to people. Like having somebody that's like calling you

and being like, did you do it? Like, did you do it? Did you show up for yourself? Because it takes momentum. You know, like making these kinds of changes, you have to build momentum. And if you have that checklist and you're doing that one thing every day,

and maybe the first thing you're going to do is like commit to making a list every day. That's a great step. Once you start showing up for yourself every day and doing that and checking things off the list, you start to build self-trust. You start to have more integrity with yourself. You start to build momentum. And then it's easy to take the next step and like do the next thing. But without that momentum and without that commitment, I think people just expect their life to change like this. And like we've talked about this a lot, like it just

doesn't. But those little steps, they start to make you feel better too. Because you start to feel like, oh my gosh, I'm not doing the same thing over and over. Because that really is insanity. Yeah. Wasn't Einstein who said insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result? I think it was. Like that, that to me is crazy making. It is.

And also there's a thing that people have to be aware of and that is the trap of falling back into old patterns because they offer you comfort. That happens to a lot of people that want to lose weight. Losing weight is a big one. They start off good. They start losing weight. They start looking great.

And then somewhere along the line, that old pattern calls to them. They say, listen, it's not a fucking donut, man. You've earned a donut. Get a Krispy Kreme. Just get a couple of them. It's no big deal. Tomorrow you get back on the track. And you just never do.

You never get back on track. Yeah. And it's really common for people, whether it's cigarette smoking or fill in the blank, whatever it is. Old patterns are really hard. They're really hard to avoid because they offer some sort of bizarre comfort. Yeah, they're like coping strategies in so many ways. I mean, so many people eat or smoke or whatever for comfort or to self-soothe themselves. And so they can make a New year's resolution and lose the weight

and then if they haven't found another way to cope with life when things get hard or someone upsets them or whatever they're going to turn to that old coping device because they haven't dealt with the issue underneath what made them overeat or drink or smoke in the first place. And it's also when you're filled with angst and all these things are fucked up in your life, there's something about those old patterns that give you a big hug. They do. Yeah, they do. They're like a warm, fuzzy, old blanket, but it's really disgusting.

Covered with bacteria. That's a good way to look at it. If people want to get a hold of you, how do they do that? How do they go about this? Oh, well, Expectation Hangover

is my last book. Christine Hassler, Instagram, Facebook. But on Twitter, there's no E in Christine because Twitter is screwed up and they don't let you have, that's not even a long name.

I know. It's just too long for Twitter. I'll take it up with Twitter. So how's it, what is the spelling? C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-H-A-S-S-L-E-R. Okay.

So N-O-E folks on Twitter. And you can find it on my Twitter because of this day. Yeah. If you go to this day, what is today? Today is October 25th. Oh,

and if you want to listen to me coach people live, I do that on my podcast. It's called Over It and On With It. People call in. I coach them live on the air. It's fun. Beautiful.

You coach people live on the air? Live on the air. I don't know anything about them before they call in. Oh, wow. Do you see them or do you just hear them? Just hear them. You're going to get trolled. I'm going to get trolled?

Trolled. Yeah. After this show, it's going to happen for sure. You've been getting people that really need advice up until now. Now you're going to get people that really listen to this podcast. But thank you very much. I really enjoyed talking to you. I really appreciate it.

It was a lot of fun. Thanks, Joe. All right, folks. See you next week. Lots of good stuff coming. See you. Bye.